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Speaker 1: Warning, This podcast indeed spoilers for the first Avatar and

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Speaker 1: the sequel Avatar Way of Water in Theater.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 1: Hello, my name is Jason Concepsio, and welcome to Expert

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Speaker 1: Vision The Crooked Podcast, where we dive deep into the

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Speaker 1: beautiful blue waters of Pandora to talk about your favorite shows, movies, comics,

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Speaker 1: and pop culture. Of this episode, on the previously on

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Speaker 1: Lots of News, We're gonna be talking about the new

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Speaker 1: Across the Spider Verse trailer. I'll be talking about some

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Speaker 1: stuff that I saw at the Game of Thrones convention.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna have a discussion of AI and the recent

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Speaker 1: AI art controversy. In the airlock, Folks, we're going to Pandora. Baby,

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Speaker 1: We're getting in cryos sleep, we're sawing out, We're like

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Speaker 1: putting on our little breathers, and we're gonna be running

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Speaker 1: around in the forest and then diving into the crystal

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Speaker 1: blue waters and joining me today with all of that

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Speaker 1: to commune with Awa together. She's the number one Pandora historian,

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Speaker 1: the number one harvester of whale brain juice.

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Speaker 3: It's a great Rosie Dadea. I must say I have

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Speaker 3: never harvested a whale's brain juice. That would makes sense

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Speaker 3: when you see Avatar.

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Speaker 1: When you see Avatar Way of Water.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, how are you doing?

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Speaker 2: I'm doing well.

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Speaker 4: I'm doing well.

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Speaker 1: You know, my voice is coming back after doing so

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Speaker 1: much talking over the weekend. I was speaking so much.

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Speaker 1: And uh, you know, I'm hopped up on on Pandora

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Speaker 1: buzz after seeing three hours of J. James Cameron's latest masterpiece,

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Speaker 1: Avatar Way of Water. You're just living luxurious and amazing.

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Speaker 2: I'm just living. How are you?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: I reordered, I ordered my comic book collection. I put

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Speaker 1: like everything in order, and yeah, and God's feel I

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Speaker 1: want to keep and give away like in separate piles.

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Speaker 2: I feel good.

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Speaker 3: How are you? Yeah? I loved Tarry Yeah, yeah, same.

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Speaker 3: I was. I was immersed. I was fully immersed for

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Speaker 3: three hours and ten minutes in the vibrant three D

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Speaker 3: of Avatar A Way of Water. I actually that was

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Speaker 3: always my biggest complaint about their original Avatar. Is somebody

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Speaker 3: who likes a three D movie where like an axe

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Speaker 3: comes at your face or like, you know, one of

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Speaker 3: my favorite three D movies is the My Bloody Valentine

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Speaker 3: three D remake that they did. I thought that was

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Speaker 3: like the peak of three D. The three D and

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Speaker 3: this is really good. I was very immersed.

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Speaker 2: It's tasteful three D.

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Speaker 3: It's tasteful, but it was pushing the boundary. At one point,

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Speaker 3: uh NATERII did almost shoot an arrow in my face,

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Speaker 3: which I appreciated. And also there was moments when you're

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Speaker 3: underwater where it feels like things are past your face.

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Speaker 3: I felt like the boundaries of the three D was

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Speaker 3: quite limited in the originals. I was. I was loved.

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Speaker 3: Three D's back, baby, make every movie in three D,

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Speaker 3: but like real three D, I want to see a

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Speaker 3: ladder coming towards my face like I'm in Muppets four D.

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Speaker 1: All right, let's get into it. Let's get into it

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Speaker 1: for something previously on.

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Speaker 3: Tell us all about the Game of Thrones Official fan convention,

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Speaker 3: because that is very very cool and you already it

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Speaker 3: was you and Greta, right, it was all.

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Speaker 4: Fan and I.

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Speaker 1: This was the first time we'd ever met in person,

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Speaker 1: which was wild.

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Speaker 2: Here's the thing.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if this happens to you, but when

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Speaker 1: you meet people for the first time and now in

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Speaker 1: the COVID era, I don't know about you, but it

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Speaker 1: doesn't even register almost anymore, like it feels like we

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Speaker 1: have met you and all this time I met in person,

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Speaker 1: I was like, somebody mentioned, all, this is the first

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Speaker 1: time you guys meeting.

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Speaker 2: I was like, oh, oh yeah, yeah, just feels cool.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, like almost like it feels so normalized now. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: it was the first time Greta and I had met

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Speaker 1: in person. Uh, and it was just I got to

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Speaker 1: see old friends, uh, you know, uh our friends from

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Speaker 1: History of West Rosays He using Ashaia were there, which

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Speaker 1: was wonderful.

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Speaker 2: They were covering the whole thing.

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Speaker 1: Kim Renfro from Insider was there. Uh, and it was

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Speaker 1: just it was so fun. We were hanging you know,

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Speaker 1: just like hanging out in the green room and like

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Speaker 1: this one fun moment where like as Maybianca was there

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Speaker 1: played Rosst.

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Speaker 3: One of my old time favorite characters.

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Speaker 1: And then Daniel Portman, who played Patrick Payne aka sex

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Speaker 1: God Pod, came in and they started catching up and

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Speaker 1: you know, like Grant and I are pretending like, oh,

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Speaker 1: this isn't cool, We're just very just we're just like

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Speaker 1: hanging out and they started having this conversation.

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Speaker 2: Esmey was like, oh did you live? Did you make

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Speaker 2: it to the end?

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Speaker 1: He's like, yeah, I did, I made it. I lived

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Speaker 1: all the way to the end of series. All these

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Speaker 1: like fun little moments occurred. It was great seeing everybody

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Speaker 1: in costume, and then I was really just like pleasantly

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Speaker 1: surprised at how generous everybody was with their answers. We

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Speaker 1: interviewed Kit Kit Harrington ever heard of him, the famous

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Speaker 1: John Snow aka the Bastard of Winterfell, aka the King

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Speaker 1: in the North, aka the Lord Commander of the Night's Watch,

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Speaker 1: and he like he was just like so wonderful with

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Speaker 1: his answers, took time with all the audience questions. You

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Speaker 1: could you could really sense how important like connecting with

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Speaker 1: these people was to a lot of the fans who

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Speaker 1: got to ask their questions, just how delighted they were

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Speaker 1: to see everybody. There was a great moment where we

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Speaker 1: were interviewing Patty Patty and Steve Patty who plays King

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Speaker 1: Vissaras and Steve Dussant, who plays Cortless.

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Speaker 2: Filarian, and I don't think Patty.

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Speaker 1: Had fully realized like how beloved Vicea's was after this season,

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Speaker 1: because I, you know, we had been talking for a

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Speaker 1: little while and I said, you know, I'd be remiss

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Speaker 1: if I didn't ask you about that incredible scene in

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Speaker 1: the throne room where Visara's comes in to defend his

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Speaker 1: daughter and just like the crowd exploded, and I mentioned

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Speaker 1: it it was cold. I love, it was so cool.

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Speaker 2: So, oh, this is a funny thing.

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Speaker 1: So we're there for three days Friday, Saturday, Sunday by Sunday.

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Speaker 2: Listen.

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Speaker 1: It's great, great fun, but I'm beginning to.

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Speaker 2: Get like a little t.

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Speaker 1: So what happened was we had a panel and I

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Speaker 1: forget what it was, but we had like an extra

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Speaker 1: fifteen minute like break on top of our existing fifteen

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Speaker 1: minutes because Greta was like introing some behind the scenes video.

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Speaker 1: So I went up to the green room where all

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Speaker 1: the talent was, like everybody from the cast was in there,

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Speaker 1: and various people who were also like handlers and you know,

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Speaker 1: Alfie Allen's manager and stuff like that.

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Speaker 2: So it was like I go in.

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Speaker 1: There and all the there's like three round tabe four

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Speaker 1: round tables, and all the seats are taken because it's

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Speaker 1: like Kit Harrington sitting there, Alfie Allen is sitting there,

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Speaker 1: Danny Portman is sitting there, like fucking Jack Lease and

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Speaker 1: like so I go and lay on the ground to

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Speaker 1: just kind of like relax for a little while. Next

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Speaker 1: thing I know, I fall asleep and I wake up

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Speaker 1: to one of the one of the convention people being like,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, we've been looking for you, and like

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Speaker 1: we've come in this room like four times, and this

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Speaker 1: is the first.

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Speaker 2: Time the street.

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Speaker 1: So I was like, I was like out in the open,

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Speaker 1: like if you take four steps into the green room

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Speaker 1: and by the way, you can see, Yeah, it was

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Speaker 1: the same. It was where were we for the La

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Speaker 1: Comic Con. We were at four h two, Yeah, we

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Speaker 1: like in that we were four oh seven. So we're

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Speaker 1: literally down at the end of the hall and if

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Speaker 1: they would have taken five steps or three steps into

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Speaker 1: the room, it would have been obvious that I was

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Speaker 1: right there. But they didn't do that, so they missed

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Speaker 1: me like a million times. And so I woke up

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Speaker 1: and I hear the music for the panel going on,

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Speaker 1: and they're like, it's it's starting right now. Do you

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Speaker 1: want to like run on stage. I'm like, no, that

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Speaker 1: would be fucking weird. I guess I just missed this one.

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Speaker 1: And so it was the Patty that that one was

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Speaker 1: Patty's like solo panel which I which I watched from

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Speaker 1: the side of the stage.

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Speaker 2: It was really fun. He came out like.

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Speaker 1: Tottering on a invisible cane, you know, when they opened

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Speaker 1: the doors, he pretended to like totter out like Visara's.

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Speaker 1: It was that was super fun. It was just it

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Speaker 1: was a really great time. Like everybody wash was clearly

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Speaker 1: so excited. You know, it's whenever someone gets up on

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Speaker 1: the mic to ask a question and their voice is shaking,

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Speaker 1: it's like wow, it's you realize, like how this series

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Speaker 1: really just it just means a lot to people. And again,

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Speaker 1: everybody was really really great with their you know, in

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Speaker 1: answering the questions, and it was just a fun time.

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Speaker 1: I love cosplay, I love conventions.

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Speaker 2: I love the at all. I got it.

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Speaker 1: I got a a corless and vices Funko pop, not

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Speaker 1: a single funk I got two Fungo pops.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, now Visaras without the Golden mask, but it's so

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Speaker 1: it's like younger Visas. But it was really fun. It

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Speaker 1: was a great time, man, it was it was. It

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Speaker 1: was a long time, but it was really really fun

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Speaker 1: and it was cool to see how much it meant

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Speaker 1: to the fans.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean it was the first ever official Game

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Speaker 3: of Thrones fan con, right, which is why you had

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Speaker 3: so many unbelievable that was like a stacked cost of guests.

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Speaker 3: It was everyone. You can't want to be there, I

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Speaker 3: mean Kit.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, like, holy shit, there he is.

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Speaker 1: It's fucking Jon Snow And you never know what to do,

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Speaker 1: you know, Like our friend Kenny who is my manager,

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Speaker 1: was like he was there for day one because uh

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Speaker 1: his wife is also is Daniel Portman's rep. And you know,

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Speaker 1: just there to support Grant and I and he and

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Speaker 1: you know like Elvi Allen is there and Jack Lison

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Speaker 1: were there, and Tom Glencarney was there, you know, plays

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Speaker 1: egg on the Elder.

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Speaker 2: He said, oh, you.

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Speaker 1: Go go say go say how to the dollar? And

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Speaker 1: I was like, you introduce yourself over the panel.

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Speaker 2: You gotta do that. You gotta do that.

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Speaker 1: You make sure that you know they know who you

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Speaker 1: are and stuff like that, and I'm.

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Speaker 2: Like, gosh, I don't want to bother them. They're just like,

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Speaker 2: you know there.

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Speaker 3: Everybody was ballad.

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Speaker 1: It's the balance. But everybody was like super super sweet

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Speaker 1: and super charming. There were some really thirsty asked questions

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Speaker 1: at times, like there was oh my god, I had

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Speaker 1: I had Tom.

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Speaker 4: Uh.

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Speaker 2: It's interesting. Day one.

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Speaker 1: The original setup was Greta and I were gonna, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, like trade off panels and certain bigger panels

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Speaker 1: we do together just to kind of save our energy.

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Speaker 1: But then we got to the end of day one

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Speaker 1: and did the panel together and we're like, let's just

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Speaker 1: do all the panels together.

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Speaker 2: It's so much better and so much easier.

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Speaker 1: But so originally Day one I did Tom Glencarney just

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Speaker 1: by myself, and someone got up and was like, first

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Speaker 1: question was hello Tom, You're very handsome, and we were like, okay,

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Speaker 1: that's not a question. Yeah, And then another person was like,

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Speaker 1: Hi Tom, just so you know, I call you King

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Speaker 1: Poppy Chulo.

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Speaker 5: To be and Con is like a you are like

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Speaker 5: the teacher and the fan and the historian and the

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Speaker 5: question asker and the bodyguard.

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Speaker 3: New York Comic Con I did a movie premiere and

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Speaker 3: one of the people the lot I should have stopped

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Speaker 3: before the last question, but the last question the guy

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Speaker 3: came up and Jake Lacy was in the movie is

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Speaker 3: this really fun movie called Significant Other with Michael Momroan

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Speaker 3: and Jake Lacy and the last guy came up and

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Speaker 3: just made some really weird comment about how lucky Jake

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Speaker 3: Lacy was that he'd like rolled in the hay with

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Speaker 3: It wasn't even in the panel like jess I think

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Speaker 3: it was Jessica Chastain or something, and I had to

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Speaker 3: be like, let's keep it clean, let's get and everyone

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Speaker 3: was like I could just be like I was like,

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Speaker 3: I should never have let that last guy ask the question.

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Speaker 3: But that's always the way people are excited to talk

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Speaker 3: to these But it's that balance. It sounds like it

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Speaker 3: was respectful fast at the game of.

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Speaker 2: Was mainly respectful for Thirst.

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Speaker 1: There was like a point five percent of like things

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Speaker 1: that were like, okay.

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Speaker 2: It was. It was a it was a very respectful Thirst.

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Speaker 4: When the questioner was like I call you King, Tom

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Speaker 4: was like, what's that mean?

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Speaker 2: He like leaned over to me and I.

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Speaker 1: Was like, I was like, oh, that's like a it's

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Speaker 1: like a very handsome guy. Basically there was and forget

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Speaker 1: it for Patrick Payne because who we always who of course,

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Speaker 1: you know sex guy pod he made the eight he

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Speaker 1: you know, the whoors of King's landing. We're giving him,

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Speaker 1: you know, rolls in the hay for et cetera. There

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Speaker 1: was they were giving him money, they were giving him

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Speaker 1: him money. There were so many questions about, like, so,

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Speaker 1: what do you think he did?

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Speaker 2: What do you think it was?

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Speaker 1: Then?

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Speaker 3: What was the backstory is? What was what was specialty? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: What was it?

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Speaker 4: He was like, oh my gosh, it was.

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Speaker 1: It was. It was a wonderful fun time, absolutely fun time.

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Speaker 1: Shall we talk about the Across the Spider Verse trailer?

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Speaker 3: That is, it's very exciting.

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Speaker 1: Full trailer for the highly anticipated Spider Man Across the

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Speaker 1: Spider Verse dropped this week. Of course, loss of returning

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Speaker 1: characters Miles Morales, his dad, his father, Jefferson Davis.

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Speaker 2: One of the most perplexing choices in.

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Speaker 1: Recent comics history done of course, Gwen Stacy, Peter Parker,

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Speaker 1: et cetera. And lots of new characters appear in this trailer,

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Speaker 1: just Spider Woman, the Vulture, various Spider Man variants. We

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Speaker 1: get a Spider Punk, shots of fucking zig and it

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Speaker 1: just man, it just seems extremely fun. I am of

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Speaker 1: the opinion this is not a controversial opinion that into

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Speaker 1: the Spider verses.

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Speaker 5: Like.

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Speaker 1: Top two comic book movies ever like it certainly want

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Speaker 1: to maybe rejectively the best one.

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Speaker 3: Maybe everything everything else is like your own feelings, but

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Speaker 3: it's definitely the best Spider Man movie. And I love

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Speaker 3: that Tom Holland mcu Spider Man movies. I love Andrew Garfield,

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Speaker 3: I love Toby, but that movie is unbelievable. I thought

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Speaker 3: this was so much fun. I love They managed to

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Speaker 3: do this great job with the trailer where they ground

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Speaker 3: it in this conversation that Miles is having with his

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Speaker 3: mom Rio where she's kind of just like, I spent

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Speaker 3: all my life just looking after you, and I don't

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Speaker 3: want you to be in a situation where I'm not

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Speaker 3: able to do that. And if I'm not doing it,

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Speaker 3: then I need you to do it and to take

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Speaker 3: on that responsibility. And they ground it with that human

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Speaker 3: like love and heart, which was such a big part

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Speaker 3: of the movie. And then they're just like boom bombastic

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Speaker 3: bag man, like, oh that's spider Man. May Day Parker

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Speaker 3: by the way, Oh yes, so Peter B. Parker looks

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Speaker 3: like he had a baby with Mary Jane. They revealed

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Speaker 3: an image of the baby. We don't see it in

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Speaker 3: the trailer. He's wearing the baby beyond, but it is

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Speaker 3: made a Parker. But then there's also grown up may

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Speaker 3: Day Parker. We see in this there's so many different people.

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Speaker 3: They have the PS four Spider Man, they have like

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Speaker 3: silver Armor Spider. There's all different kinds of variants. It's real. Oh,

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Speaker 3: we don't it's hard to see him in the trailer,

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Speaker 3: but they released a really cool character design for Spider

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Speaker 3: Man India, So there's a lot of characters here. And

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Speaker 3: then we have Spider Man twenty ninety nine. And this

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Speaker 3: is the biggest question of the movie is what is

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Speaker 3: his role because in this and in the pre trailer,

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Speaker 3: it looks like he is either an antagonist or a

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Speaker 3: straight up villain. And at the end it ends with

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Speaker 3: I think it's Spider Gwen who says, oh, I thought

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Speaker 3: it was supposed to be the good guys, and then

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Speaker 3: he says we are. But he's like smashing miles his

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Speaker 3: face into the ground. So it's unclear what kind of

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Speaker 3: cataclysm and drama they're doing here. Also, so Jessica Drew

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Speaker 3: Spider Woman here played voice by its Array and they

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Speaker 3: did black Jessica Drew. I think that is going to

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Speaker 3: be and I think Jessica Drew is going to be

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Speaker 3: black in the MCU too.

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Speaker 2: I agree with you. I think I think that that

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Speaker 2: is going to be the case. I'll say I'll go

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Speaker 2: a little.

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Speaker 1: This, I'll go a little further on on this. I

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Speaker 1: think that this animation style, I think you could make

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Speaker 1: an entire like Marvel animated universe.

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Speaker 2: I agree, and.

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Speaker 1: Just do do do Avengers do West Coast Avengers, do

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Speaker 1: x Men?

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Speaker 5: Like?

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Speaker 1: Do all do a whole universe of stories that's separated

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Speaker 1: from the from the mcun like this, because I just

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Speaker 1: think the animation startup is so engaging and exciting.

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Speaker 3: A long time ago, we'd said, maybe it was around

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Speaker 3: the time of What If. I don't remember, but we

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Speaker 3: were like, they should use Marvel animation to basically tell

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Speaker 3: different famous comic book arts. Yeah, I would love to

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Speaker 3: see that in the Sony studio space where you're reaching

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Speaker 3: literally no joke. I was on my Instagram the day

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Speaker 3: the trailer came out, and like every cool artist that

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Speaker 3: I followed was like, so proud this is out, so

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Speaker 3: happy I got to do a bit of work on this,

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Speaker 3: Like they bought like the best of the best illustrators, animators,

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Speaker 3: everyone in to make this sequel, and I just feel

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Speaker 3: like there's so much space. I mean, think about how

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Speaker 3: great Kingpin was in that first movie. Obviously, Miles is

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Speaker 3: movie like it's it's all about Miles, but I think

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Speaker 3: so much about the visualization of Kingpin and how terrifying

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Speaker 3: he was and how interesting and how visually exciting, and

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Speaker 3: I think I would love to see, you know, you

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Speaker 3: could even do a Punisher movie like this. And I'm

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Speaker 3: not someone who's out here always advocating for many Punisher stories,

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Speaker 3: but Punisher, that's a Spider Man villain. You know, that

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Speaker 3: could be a really interesting space, and they do so

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Speaker 3: much intriguing animation. I'd love to see them do Silk.

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Speaker 3: You know, we know that Sony is now doing this

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Speaker 3: Amazon deal where they're going to be making TV shows

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Speaker 3: like Silk, and I would be really interested to see that.

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Speaker 3: I'm also very interested to know and to think about

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Speaker 3: when the animated Miles and Miles's movies will inevitably spit

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Speaker 3: a real live action Miles into the MCU, because it's

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Speaker 3: just it's so it's gonna happen.

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Speaker 2: It has to happen, it feels and.

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Speaker 1: Here's my question, is it do they do it when

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Speaker 1: Tom is like on his way out, Tom's gonna die,

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Speaker 1: or you know, at the end of his contract. He

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Speaker 1: doesn't want to do it anymore. Is that when they

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Speaker 1: bring in Miles or is there a period of time

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Speaker 1: where we get both of them?

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Speaker 3: I think it's so. It might just be my own

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Speaker 3: Miles bias, right, but I believe that the way that

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Speaker 3: they ended No Way Home, it essentially establishes a world

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Speaker 3: where Miles can exist because Peter doesn't have any personal connections.

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Speaker 3: Now in the comics it's that Peter died inverted commerce

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Speaker 3: whoever dies, but people thought Peter was dead in this

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Speaker 3: the notion that Peter Parker doesn't exist, even though Spider

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Speaker 3: Man as a figure does, that could inspire Miles to

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Speaker 3: become a local Spider Man and then to have that duality.

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Speaker 3: So my fingers are crossed, and I think, you know,

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Speaker 3: Spider Verse is really the most successful multiverse kind of

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Speaker 3: accessible storytelling that we've had, So it makes sense that

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Speaker 3: there could be a world where that multiverse spills into

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Speaker 3: them see you. But I also think that Sony is

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Speaker 3: probably keeping Miles Morales very close to their chest.

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Speaker 6: They're not going to give him yeah for nothing, that's

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Speaker 6: going to be a negotiation. Looks so great if he

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Speaker 6: does come in, wait if and when he does come

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Speaker 6: into the live action world while Peter Parker is there. Man,

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Speaker 6: think about how heart wrenching a death of Spider Man

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Speaker 6: like an ultimate Spider Man end of Peter Parker's run.

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Speaker 2: How just like good punch level that would be exactly screen.

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Speaker 3: They're establishing so many of the character relationships that would

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Speaker 3: need to be set up for that to happen in

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Speaker 3: these Spider Verse movies. And my gut says that with

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Speaker 3: the looming threat of DC attempting this kind of wildly

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Speaker 3: ambitious James Gunpeter Saffran led animation TV film into Connected

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Speaker 3: Universe in a more streamline way, because DC has been

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Speaker 3: doing that for a while, but it's not been widely recognized.

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Speaker 3: I think that that pushes that likely pushes Marvel to

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Speaker 3: wanna can in spite of us with the MCU in

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Speaker 3: a more distinct way.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, up next, AI art. You may have noticed lots

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Speaker 1: of people you follow on social media sharing various portraits

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Speaker 1: of themselves that are done in this kind of like

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Speaker 1: artistic way. Here they are in space, Here they are

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Speaker 1: in a forest, Here they are is some kind of

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Speaker 1: comic book warrior. This is probably the lensa AI app

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Speaker 1: that allows people to create portraits of themselves according to

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Speaker 1: whatever prompt the user might input into the user interface.

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Speaker 2: But this technology is raising a lot of red flags

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Speaker 2: with artists, as in it rosie.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. So LENSA AI works on open source image the

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Speaker 3: text model called stable Diffusion, and that is run by

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Speaker 3: a non profit company and what it does is it

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Speaker 3: scrapes are from the Internet without artists' consent to train

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Speaker 3: the AI. Now that in itself is its own wider

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Speaker 3: ethical issue. The problem that really upset people was lens

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Speaker 3: is actually charging people for this, so it's no longer nonprofit.

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Speaker 3: And as many different people managed to source there was

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Speaker 3: some really great kind of just like community journalism, where

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Speaker 3: it became quite obvious that you could actually still see

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Speaker 3: signatures in the corner of the art because the AI

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Speaker 3: is trained off of people's artwork that had signatures, and

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Speaker 3: for some artists it was very easy to see an

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Speaker 3: image that somebody shared off LENSA that was clearly kind

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Speaker 3: of what you would say, like biting their art style.

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Speaker 3: But in this it's less of a human choosing to plagiarize,

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Speaker 3: and the nature of the way that the AI is

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Speaker 3: being trained is on the art of others. So for

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Speaker 3: a lot of cartoonists and the illustration community, this is

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Speaker 3: like a big kind of upset. Understandably so because a

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Speaker 3: lot of conversations about the ethics of AI have been

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Speaker 3: very widely agreed upon, and I think for a lot

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Speaker 3: of people in the comic book community and the cartooning

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Speaker 3: and illustration community, this felt like everyone was just like,

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00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:22,040
Speaker 3: oh wait, but I want to look see what I

441
00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:24,160
Speaker 3: would look like as a call like Superhero, So I'm

442
00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:26,080
Speaker 3: just gonna pay my eight dollars and put in my

443
00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:29,800
Speaker 3: ten photos. And then outside of that that, which is

444
00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:32,199
Speaker 3: a huge part and is like the main issue that

445
00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:36,359
Speaker 3: a lot of people have had. My understanding is that

446
00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:39,840
Speaker 3: the nature of the way that Stable Diffusion works and

447
00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:46,719
Speaker 3: the company laio N who run this nonprofit your photos

448
00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:48,680
Speaker 3: once they are in there, not only are we talking

449
00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:51,439
Speaker 3: about a likeness rights which they will own and that

450
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:53,320
Speaker 3: is in the terms and conditions, and many people have

451
00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:56,480
Speaker 3: done great reporting on that, but also they can then

452
00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:00,000
Speaker 3: use your photos and will use your photos to try

453
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:02,439
Speaker 3: your AI to do stuff like facial recognition that can

454
00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:04,760
Speaker 3: then be used in like a surveillance state. So there's

455
00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:09,040
Speaker 3: a lot of different layers to what to the problems

456
00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:13,320
Speaker 3: with it and the different ways that it can be exploited,

457
00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:15,040
Speaker 3: most of which has come from the fact that it's

458
00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:17,320
Speaker 3: new technology and a lot of us don't really understand it.

459
00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:18,880
Speaker 2: I think that.

460
00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:23,720
Speaker 1: To your point, there's a lot of different implications of

461
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:27,840
Speaker 1: this is obviously kind of you know, not to overstate it,

462
00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:32,679
Speaker 1: but AI in general is world changing technology that you know,

463
00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:35,120
Speaker 1: change the way we generate ideas, change the way a.

464
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:36,639
Speaker 2: Lot of people will work creatively.

465
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:42,040
Speaker 1: And I think on the one hand, it's it's unstoppable

466
00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:46,400
Speaker 1: in the sense that it's moving so fast that it's

467
00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:49,800
Speaker 1: here and it's kind of not going anywhere. That said,

468
00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:55,320
Speaker 1: because of the way it works and the stuff that

469
00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:59,920
Speaker 1: it scrapes to build out how it works, it is

470
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:06,080
Speaker 1: essentially at this point theft. You know, it's intellectual property theft. Now,

471
00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:12,119
Speaker 1: I guess the people who are very pro AI would say, well,

472
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:16,120
Speaker 1: you know, we're working on safeguards and things like that,

473
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:19,639
Speaker 1: but it's also like, you know, this is moving so

474
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:22,600
Speaker 1: fast that it's kind of you can't really stop where

475
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:25,320
Speaker 1: this is going, and therefore, you know, it's better to

476
00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:29,200
Speaker 1: you know, to support this kind of progress than worry

477
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:31,200
Speaker 1: too much about the various eggs that are going to

478
00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:34,040
Speaker 1: be broken, yeah, to which I would counter, you know,

479
00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:39,719
Speaker 1: this is you know, artists are not the illustrators that

480
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:43,199
Speaker 1: we know are not like they're not raking it in

481
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:44,280
Speaker 1: an exactly.

482
00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:46,639
Speaker 3: I think this is the This is the bigger problem

483
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 3: is that artists already, whether it's the artists who draw

484
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:53,840
Speaker 3: your favorite superhero comics or it's an artist who's trying

485
00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:57,600
Speaker 3: to make their own independent work, they are already being

486
00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:04,240
Speaker 3: exploited and undervalued. And the biggest problem with that approach

487
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:08,160
Speaker 3: to this is that it essentially erases all the work

488
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:09,840
Speaker 3: that has been done and the years of work the

489
00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:11,960
Speaker 3: artists have done to even be able to train the

490
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:16,160
Speaker 3: AI in the first place, let alone just to learn

491
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:18,520
Speaker 3: how to do art. And then I've been reading some

492
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:24,040
Speaker 3: really interesting, more kind of philosophical questions about it, which

493
00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:26,320
Speaker 3: is kind of the notion of like what does art

494
00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:26,800
Speaker 3: mean to you?

495
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:26,960
Speaker 6: Like?

496
00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:30,920
Speaker 3: Is art just a series of photos or images that

497
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:36,800
Speaker 3: tell a story? And if so, then how does that

498
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:39,439
Speaker 3: change when it's AI or it's a human Because if

499
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:43,200
Speaker 3: a human is making that art, that art is a

500
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:48,960
Speaker 3: long ges stating result of their ideas and their experiences

501
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:54,760
Speaker 3: and their influences. And I'm not a verse. I'm very

502
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:57,360
Speaker 3: much like I think a lot about like I grew

503
00:26:57,400 --> 00:26:58,880
Speaker 3: up on sci fi, right, so I have a lot

504
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:02,240
Speaker 3: of feelings about the nature of AI and the possibilities

505
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:05,960
Speaker 3: of sentient AI and the rights. Nobody is like AI

506
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:10,359
Speaker 3: art is bad forever blanket banned bad. The problem is

507
00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:15,600
Speaker 3: that right now, with stuff like LENSA, companies are profiting

508
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:18,960
Speaker 3: off art that is stolen from artists who didn't give

509
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:22,600
Speaker 3: their consent, and it's seeing kind of widely accepted as

510
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:29,200
Speaker 3: the norm, which makes it more easy for corporations and

511
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:33,480
Speaker 3: singular people to exploit artists. I saw multiple examples of

512
00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:37,600
Speaker 3: some really. Some of the stuff that shocked me the

513
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:40,159
Speaker 3: most was after I'd learned about LENSA, which I was

514
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:43,359
Speaker 3: down on from the beginning. Some I love creator rights,

515
00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:46,919
Speaker 3: so I'd always felt suspicious about it. But some of

516
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:50,520
Speaker 3: the wildest stuff I saw was other artists who had

517
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:55,679
Speaker 3: had their art style directly stolen and fed into AI generators,

518
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:59,920
Speaker 3: and then had people sharing their art and winning comp

519
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,160
Speaker 3: petitions with their art and getting paid for the art

520
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 3: that they just fed somebody else's art into the generator.

521
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:07,359
Speaker 3: And that's the other side of it, is it. It

522
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:12,480
Speaker 3: makes it a lot easier to plagiarize a specific art

523
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:15,639
Speaker 3: style or to take work away from working artists. So

524
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:17,760
Speaker 3: it's it's really complex, and I feel like this is

525
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 3: probably just the beginning of like a much bigger conversation.

526
00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:25,240
Speaker 1: Like this is before we even get into the questions

527
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:33,720
Speaker 1: of AI generated revenge porn, and also you can create

528
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 1: propaganda using AI created art, whether or not the AI

529
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:42,920
Speaker 1: algorithm and the underlying mathematics and it were created with

530
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:44,440
Speaker 1: inherent biases.

531
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:49,680
Speaker 3: You see the images, you see the examples. I think

532
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:51,640
Speaker 3: it was Megan Fox who had said it. I think

533
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:56,120
Speaker 3: Nissi Nash had sheared some, but there was The Guardian

534
00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:59,440
Speaker 3: did a piece about where they put images of famous

535
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:03,239
Speaker 3: women men who had done historically notable things, and one

536
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:05,240
Speaker 3: of them was one of the ones that got spout

537
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:08,080
Speaker 3: was like Emilia earhartlight laying naked on a bed and

538
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:10,400
Speaker 3: Megan Fox all of her pictures were just all just

539
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:13,040
Speaker 3: the boobs. That was just all it was. Yeah, I mean,

540
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:15,400
Speaker 3: and they make people skinnier and life.

541
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:18,920
Speaker 1: Before even before we even get to that like philosophical

542
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:19,520
Speaker 1: part of it.

543
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 2: It really what we're really dealing with.

544
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:29,520
Speaker 1: Is uh a transfer of It's really a transfer of

545
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:34,280
Speaker 1: wealth from artists to capital because listen, art this is

546
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:37,560
Speaker 1: not in the short medium, and I would dare to

547
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:39,440
Speaker 1: say even the long term. This is not going to

548
00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 1: replace artists and real art at the top level. Like

549
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:45,240
Speaker 1: you know, this is not people aren't going to walk

550
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:49,720
Speaker 1: into a gallery and buy an AI generator or piece.

551
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:54,800
Speaker 1: Maybe they will, but very successful, well did they?

552
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:59,160
Speaker 2: Or is that just a scam? Perfect? I so?

553
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:04,400
Speaker 1: And at the same time, NFTs are basically digital versions

554
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:08,560
Speaker 1: of human created art anyway, But the way this will

555
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:13,680
Speaker 1: be applied is I am a movie studio. I don't

556
00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:17,600
Speaker 1: want I want to cut costs anywhere I can. Therefore,

557
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:21,400
Speaker 1: when I'm storyboarding out a script, rather than pay an illustrator,

558
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:24,520
Speaker 1: I will put my script into an AI, and that

559
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:30,280
Speaker 1: AI will create a storyboard that is using art styles

560
00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:35,600
Speaker 1: and details scraped from actual artists, and I will create

561
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:38,160
Speaker 1: this product that will then help me create my other product,

562
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:43,080
Speaker 1: and that is one or two or a handful of

563
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:46,840
Speaker 1: illustrators that now don't have a job because I've cut

564
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:52,840
Speaker 1: that part out of it or storyboard yeah, or if

565
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:57,200
Speaker 1: i'm you know, or if I'm like mocking up graphics

566
00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:03,480
Speaker 1: for a book or for definitely or assigned for my bakery.

567
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:07,560
Speaker 1: You know, now, all of a sudden, you're transferring the

568
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 1: monies that would have gone into the pocket of an

569
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:14,120
Speaker 1: actual human being, an illustrator, and you're moving it towards

570
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:16,520
Speaker 1: the technologists who have created this AI.

571
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:20,680
Speaker 2: So should you should we be doing that?

572
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:24,320
Speaker 1: Is a is a kind of basic question, I think

573
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:27,640
Speaker 1: is going to be the more everyday question that we

574
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:31,360
Speaker 1: have to grapple with before we start grappling with these

575
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:36,680
Speaker 1: kind of really big and obviously you know, super impactful

576
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:39,800
Speaker 1: questions about like, Okay, what if someone wants to create

577
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:42,520
Speaker 1: a picture of me committing a crime and then report

578
00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 1: me to the police, Or what if somebody wants to

579
00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 1: create uh, you know, completely realistic propaganda, or what if

580
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:51,680
Speaker 1: somebody wants to get back at their X and create

581
00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:54,640
Speaker 1: nudes of them? Like those are all issues that are

582
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:57,040
Speaker 1: going to get dealt with as well, and they're probably

583
00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:59,360
Speaker 1: going to get dealt with at the governmental level because

584
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 1: they're just salacious and huge. But stuff like what about

585
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:08,480
Speaker 1: the illustrator that lost a storyboarding gig because you know

586
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:12,720
Speaker 1: this and that company used an AI rather than them,

587
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:15,800
Speaker 1: Those are the things that we should be saying right now,

588
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:19,280
Speaker 1: because that's the that is an application that's going to

589
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:21,400
Speaker 1: happen like tomorrow, Yeah.

590
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 3: If it's already yeah, if it's not already happening in

591
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:26,040
Speaker 3: some studio. And the other thing is as well that

592
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:29,600
Speaker 3: So there's a there's a website coote that you can

593
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:32,040
Speaker 3: look at called have I Been Trained dot com and

594
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:34,520
Speaker 3: you can put in any image and see if it

595
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:39,000
Speaker 3: was used to train the AI stable diffusion or the

596
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:42,760
Speaker 3: different processes. The most interesting thing about it is that

597
00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:45,440
Speaker 3: when people started to look into it, they also realized

598
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 3: that there was some unhinged things collected in there. And

599
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:53,120
Speaker 3: this is kind of the the problem that this massive

600
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:58,160
Speaker 3: data set that isn't necessarily regulated, you know, offers up.

601
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:01,560
Speaker 3: Is there was a Twitter user called the pen who

602
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:06,640
Speaker 3: found that a bunch of before and after medical photos

603
00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:09,200
Speaker 3: that she had had taken by a clinical physician had

604
00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:12,280
Speaker 3: ended up on there, and then through that people started

605
00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:17,560
Speaker 3: to realize that there were thousands of medical photos and

606
00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:19,520
Speaker 3: all different kinds of things that had ended up on

607
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:24,800
Speaker 3: there that again really start to blur the lines of consent,

608
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:27,080
Speaker 3: because there's the consent of oh, you put yourselfie on

609
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:29,400
Speaker 3: Instagram and anyone can look at it and use it.

610
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:31,840
Speaker 3: But then there's the consent of something that is private,

611
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:34,160
Speaker 3: like a medical image or a nude which other people

612
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:36,280
Speaker 3: found on there, and these are the things that are

613
00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:39,280
Speaker 3: being used to train it. So it's just very messy.

614
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 3: And I think Jason, you made a really great point

615
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:46,360
Speaker 3: that really the most direct question to ask yourself is

616
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:48,720
Speaker 3: like would I rather give money to an independent artist

617
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:50,920
Speaker 3: or would I rather give money to somebody who is

618
00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:54,960
Speaker 3: creating this tool that, as we said, has like multiple

619
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:58,080
Speaker 3: ethical questions surrounding it before we even just get to

620
00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:02,480
Speaker 3: that baseline question of could I just pay an artist?

621
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:05,120
Speaker 3: And I will say, you can just pay an artist.

622
00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:05,600
Speaker 2: Guess what?

623
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:08,799
Speaker 3: You can commission an artist? A lot of artists on

624
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:12,680
Speaker 3: Instagram will are open to commissions your favorite artists. You

625
00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:15,760
Speaker 3: can pay someone like Jim Lee. He'll do a charity commission.

626
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:17,840
Speaker 3: It'll be ten thousand dollars. If you're wealthy, maybe you

627
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:20,759
Speaker 3: want a Gimley commission to someone who's doing a ten

628
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:23,400
Speaker 3: dollar commission of your favorite character for charity. There is

629
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:27,000
Speaker 3: every range. You can get. Portrait commissions like lens. A

630
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:29,600
Speaker 3: lot of artists do those. I have had multiple portrait

631
00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:32,359
Speaker 3: commissions done of me and people that I love, and

632
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:34,680
Speaker 3: it's a really great way to support art and you

633
00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:38,040
Speaker 3: get something that's absolutely unique. So I think that's just

634
00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:43,480
Speaker 3: the most important thing is to just say support artists.

635
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:45,200
Speaker 3: And at this point, I think that's the kind of

636
00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:49,040
Speaker 3: the baseline of our response that we can have to

637
00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:51,879
Speaker 3: this because it's incredibly complex, and like Jason said, it's

638
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:54,320
Speaker 3: not going anywhere, It's only gonna get more complex.

639
00:34:54,640 --> 00:35:02,799
Speaker 1: Speaking of computer generated graphics. Up next, Avatar Way x

640
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Speaker 1: Folks were stepping out of the airlock and into the

774
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Speaker 1: mouth of a beautiful baby toulcun God. I love him

775
00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:28,760
Speaker 1: so much for Avatar the Way of Water in theaters. Now, folks,

776
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Speaker 1: Avatar Way of Water, the long, long, long awaited seql

777
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Speaker 1: to two thousand and nine Avatar.

778
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Speaker 2: Let's do it.

779
00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:41,480
Speaker 1: A quick recap of Avatar Way of Water, which follows

780
00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:45,320
Speaker 1: ten plus years do they I forget now we're just

781
00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:53,040
Speaker 1: it's about ten years after after Jake and his Navvi

782
00:42:53,280 --> 00:43:00,480
Speaker 1: allies have evicted humanity from Pandora. From the planet of Andorra,

783
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Speaker 1: Jake and Tierri have family together, a growing family, and

784
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Speaker 1: their family is, you know, at this point, like their

785
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Speaker 1: eldest son is of warrior age, their youngest son is

786
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Speaker 1: not quite there but clearly like the equivalent of a

787
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Speaker 1: human teenager.

788
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Speaker 2: And then.

789
00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:28,239
Speaker 1: In that time they also have two daughters. When an

790
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Speaker 1: adopted daughter, Kirie, who is the the the daughter of

791
00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:37,320
Speaker 1: doctor Grace played by Sigourney Weaver in the first film,

792
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Speaker 1: and has something of her personality still and her there's

793
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Speaker 1: clearly some kind of like chosen one aspect.

794
00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:48,359
Speaker 3: It was essentially an immaculate conception from all that we

795
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:52,360
Speaker 3: know how Cirie was born of Grace's seemingly dead avatar.

796
00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:59,280
Speaker 1: But one day everything's beautiful on the on the beautiful

797
00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:03,520
Speaker 1: topian planet of Pandora. But then one day the sky

798
00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:07,880
Speaker 1: people aka the human beings come back. And then we

799
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:15,320
Speaker 1: fast forward another year and the sky people have basically

800
00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:19,360
Speaker 1: brought Colonel Miles Quaritch, who is the antagonist from the

801
00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:22,920
Speaker 1: first film played by Stephen Lang. The fucking ageless Stephen

802
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:25,320
Speaker 1: hes like he's seventy years old.

803
00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:29,520
Speaker 3: I believe, and he's He's in every action movie, every

804
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Speaker 3: crazy horror movie. He's doing it all.

805
00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:35,840
Speaker 1: He's fucking it's it's truly insane. The first time I

806
00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:39,760
Speaker 1: ever saw him was in a little, little remembered action

807
00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:42,640
Speaker 1: movie called Band of the Hand from the eighties, which

808
00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:44,479
Speaker 1: I don't know if anybody but me has ever seen,

809
00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:48,480
Speaker 1: and it's basically about it's kind of like Miami Wece

810
00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:51,919
Speaker 1: meets twenty one drum Street. There's like this cop who

811
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:55,240
Speaker 1: takes these teenage runaways and turns them into like a

812
00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:59,239
Speaker 1: special like DEA like special forces fighting group anyway, and

813
00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:04,640
Speaker 1: Stephen Lang was their captain. So and the sky People return.

814
00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:09,560
Speaker 1: Colonel Miles Quaritch is his His consciousness that you know,

815
00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:12,560
Speaker 1: or at least the consciousness that existed before his death,

816
00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:17,919
Speaker 1: is uploaded into a Navvy body grown from hybrid NOVI

817
00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:23,040
Speaker 1: slash human DNA. He's leading a bunch of other similar

818
00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:30,719
Speaker 1: Navvy marines and their mission is find Jake Sully, wipe

819
00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:36,239
Speaker 1: him out, stop his insurgency by decapitating it in order

820
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Speaker 1: to save his people, the you know, spare them. The

821
00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:45,799
Speaker 1: trouble and heartache of the attacks that are that they

822
00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:50,800
Speaker 1: know are coming. Jake and Natiri decide to flee to

823
00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:51,320
Speaker 1: the coast.

824
00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:53,680
Speaker 2: They go to the and there they are taken in

825
00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:54,520
Speaker 2: by the reef.

826
00:45:54,320 --> 00:46:00,279
Speaker 1: People who not quite you know, kind of grudgingly like

827
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:03,239
Speaker 1: take them in. They learn new ways, They learn the

828
00:46:03,239 --> 00:46:06,839
Speaker 1: way of water, much like the much like the title says,

829
00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:11,879
Speaker 1: they learn about how important the toolcon are to the

830
00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:15,600
Speaker 1: to the reef novve and this, you know, the toolcoon

831
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:21,279
Speaker 1: are like these uh, these whales, whale like creatures that

832
00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:24,759
Speaker 1: are intensely smart and intensely emotional, and they go on

833
00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:29,760
Speaker 1: these long, long journeys throughout the ocean. But over time

834
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:32,320
Speaker 1: they come back and they return to the various villages

835
00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:36,560
Speaker 1: to commune with the nave, who have an almost like

836
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:41,600
Speaker 1: familial kinship bond with individual toolcoon whales. And they come

837
00:46:41,640 --> 00:46:43,799
Speaker 1: back and they'll tell each other stories about what's been

838
00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:48,080
Speaker 1: going on with their lives. But unfortunately, the brain usee

839
00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:53,239
Speaker 1: of these toolcoons is worth a lot of money. Unobtainium,

840
00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:55,600
Speaker 1: which you might remember from the first movie that is

841
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:57,480
Speaker 1: no longer the mcguffin.

842
00:46:57,560 --> 00:47:00,400
Speaker 2: The new mcguffin. They don't care about.

843
00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:03,040
Speaker 4: That they don't even say it.

844
00:47:03,040 --> 00:47:05,799
Speaker 1: It's off. It's fucking off the board. The new thing

845
00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:11,920
Speaker 1: is this, uh, this juice that is that is secreted

846
00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:16,640
Speaker 1: in the Toolcoon's brain. Is this beautiful amber liquid that

847
00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:21,160
Speaker 1: can only obviously only be harvested by brutally murdering these creatures.

848
00:47:21,719 --> 00:47:22,000
Speaker 2: Uh.

849
00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:25,640
Speaker 1: The juice is then harvested and is shipped to Earth,

850
00:47:25,760 --> 00:47:30,840
Speaker 1: where apparently it just flat out stops human aging according

851
00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:34,200
Speaker 1: to the men who harvest this this substance.

852
00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:39,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're getting into like deep seeding territory to the

853
00:47:39,239 --> 00:47:41,880
Speaker 3: potential next three movies, because not only are we going

854
00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:45,360
Speaker 3: to have an ageless elite thanks to the brain juices

855
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:52,920
Speaker 3: of the tolcoonuices of the tool pot, as Edie Falco's character,

856
00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:57,760
Speaker 3: General Francis Ardmore says, wiping on optainium off the board

857
00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:01,480
Speaker 3: as as super projuice. A soul hilariously just pointed out

858
00:48:01,520 --> 00:48:07,120
Speaker 3: in the chat they obtained the unobtainium. They they obtained it.

859
00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:10,719
Speaker 3: So she says, you know, we're not mining anymore, they're terrorforming.

860
00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:12,400
Speaker 3: They they want to make.

861
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:15,359
Speaker 2: Cashed out.

862
00:48:15,560 --> 00:48:17,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, so they want That's going to be the long

863
00:48:18,160 --> 00:48:25,080
Speaker 3: battle here is Pandora is being targeted as a place

864
00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:27,360
Speaker 3: for them to bring the rich and the wealthy and

865
00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:30,520
Speaker 3: probably the age list thanks to the brain juices, and

866
00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:35,040
Speaker 3: that is probably seeding the next three potential movies.

867
00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:41,560
Speaker 1: So we're over in the coast, but eventually uh Querich

868
00:48:42,239 --> 00:48:47,400
Speaker 1: in his navvy body manages to track the Jake to

869
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:48,000
Speaker 1: the coast.

870
00:48:48,200 --> 00:48:52,799
Speaker 5: Look, I know what I'm about to do it.

871
00:48:53,040 --> 00:48:53,920
Speaker 3: He is aided.

872
00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:55,480
Speaker 2: He is aided in.

873
00:48:55,480 --> 00:49:01,960
Speaker 1: This regard by his biological son, Spider, who human little

874
00:49:02,080 --> 00:49:05,440
Speaker 1: human tarzan boy with dreads who was raised among the

875
00:49:05,520 --> 00:49:10,760
Speaker 1: nove certainly seems to have something of a crush on Cirie,

876
00:49:12,600 --> 00:49:17,440
Speaker 1: Jake and Nattiri's daughter, but is captured by Colonel Quaritch

877
00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:22,000
Speaker 1: early on in the movie and then basically acts as

878
00:49:22,120 --> 00:49:29,680
Speaker 1: a mostly unwilling but actually way way too willing betrayer

879
00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:31,160
Speaker 1: of the nave Ways.

880
00:49:31,719 --> 00:49:33,719
Speaker 2: He teaches fucking Colonel.

881
00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:37,840
Speaker 1: Quarris how to bond with with the the flying creatures

882
00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:41,520
Speaker 1: whose name I don't know. He's like translates for them

883
00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:43,720
Speaker 1: when they raid various villages.

884
00:49:43,320 --> 00:49:45,680
Speaker 3: Looking people's houses down.

885
00:49:46,200 --> 00:49:48,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, And though he's like, no, you shouldn't be doing this,

886
00:49:48,719 --> 00:49:49,920
Speaker 1: he's still fucking helping.

887
00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:51,360
Speaker 2: So fuck Spider anyway.

888
00:49:51,600 --> 00:49:56,760
Speaker 1: Fuck Spider anyway, Spider is helping them, and this eventually

889
00:49:56,840 --> 00:50:03,920
Speaker 1: leads to to Quaritch getting the whaling fleet to target

890
00:50:04,040 --> 00:50:08,000
Speaker 1: Toolcun not in the deep ocean, but right off the

891
00:50:08,040 --> 00:50:14,960
Speaker 1: coast of inhabited nav coastline. Because the understanding is that

892
00:50:15,120 --> 00:50:20,880
Speaker 1: because the Nave are you know, so emotionally bonded to

893
00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:23,960
Speaker 1: these creatures, killing them is a kin to murder, this

894
00:50:24,080 --> 00:50:26,600
Speaker 1: is going to cause a response and this will flush

895
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:32,320
Speaker 1: Jake out. It works, so there is a big response

896
00:50:32,640 --> 00:50:36,920
Speaker 1: the Nave uh you know, strike back against the whaling fleet.

897
00:50:37,120 --> 00:50:40,799
Speaker 1: They're helped by a rogue toolcoun named Piacan who has

898
00:50:40,840 --> 00:50:46,800
Speaker 1: been cast out of Toulcun society because uh, he they killed.

899
00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:49,480
Speaker 3: They think he killed a bunch of them, but actually

900
00:50:49,520 --> 00:50:52,880
Speaker 3: they were hunted by right and so he to the

901
00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:56,759
Speaker 3: brain juice and he defended them from the brain juice harvesters.

902
00:50:56,960 --> 00:51:00,719
Speaker 1: But even that is against is against the rules of

903
00:51:00,760 --> 00:51:06,000
Speaker 1: the Toolcun, who only live in non violent piece yeah,

904
00:51:06,080 --> 00:51:10,080
Speaker 1: absolute peace. So Pilecan is like, you know, fuck this

905
00:51:10,160 --> 00:51:14,000
Speaker 1: shit and goes free Willy on the whaling vessel.

906
00:51:14,200 --> 00:51:20,040
Speaker 2: Like you know, whipping major jump literally like free Willy.

907
00:51:20,520 --> 00:51:21,719
Speaker 4: Uh.

908
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:24,840
Speaker 1: And then uh, there's a big showdown with Sully and

909
00:51:25,080 --> 00:51:30,440
Speaker 1: Tire and Quaritch, and eventually the Whalers and Quarach are

910
00:51:30,480 --> 00:51:33,680
Speaker 1: driven off. Quarich survives thanks to Spider, who saves him

911
00:51:33,680 --> 00:51:34,680
Speaker 1: from drowning.

912
00:51:34,360 --> 00:51:37,239
Speaker 3: But no reason anyone can understand apart from they need

913
00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:38,440
Speaker 3: him to be in the next movie.

914
00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:39,720
Speaker 2: Again.

915
00:51:39,880 --> 00:51:42,920
Speaker 1: We will talk about this at depth after the recap,

916
00:51:42,920 --> 00:51:45,239
Speaker 1: but once again, fuck Spider.

917
00:51:46,120 --> 00:51:46,239
Speaker 5: Uh.

918
00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:48,960
Speaker 2: And this leads to a narration.

919
00:51:50,080 --> 00:51:53,360
Speaker 1: From Jake in which he says, you know, my family

920
00:51:53,440 --> 00:51:56,040
Speaker 1: is my greatest weakness, but it's also our greatest strength.

921
00:51:56,680 --> 00:51:58,920
Speaker 1: And now I realize that this is our home. The

922
00:51:59,040 --> 00:52:01,040
Speaker 1: entire planet is our home, and we need to defend

923
00:52:01,040 --> 00:52:01,479
Speaker 1: our home.

924
00:52:02,080 --> 00:52:02,200
Speaker 5: Uh.

925
00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:04,759
Speaker 1: And that is setting up Avatar III, in which we

926
00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:09,439
Speaker 1: would imagine Jake and his Nave forces wage complete war

927
00:52:09,520 --> 00:52:15,239
Speaker 1: against the human colony on Pandora. Folks, let's talk about it.

928
00:52:15,560 --> 00:52:19,680
Speaker 1: We saw it in three D, which I will say,

929
00:52:19,719 --> 00:52:21,120
Speaker 1: and you mentioned.

930
00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:22,440
Speaker 2: It's the spring.

931
00:52:22,520 --> 00:52:25,080
Speaker 4: He is really great, Like, it's very amassive.

932
00:52:25,160 --> 00:52:25,360
Speaker 1: It was.

933
00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:27,479
Speaker 3: It was much more three D than the first one,

934
00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:29,040
Speaker 3: which I agree a fan of.

935
00:52:30,040 --> 00:52:33,200
Speaker 1: And it's not just like dumb like, oh look now

936
00:52:33,239 --> 00:52:35,960
Speaker 1: the arrow is coming pointing right at your face. You

937
00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:39,839
Speaker 1: know it's it's stuff like, but they do, addam, they

938
00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:41,399
Speaker 1: do have a little bit of that end, but it's

939
00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:43,480
Speaker 1: not just like that wow kind of stuff of like

940
00:52:43,600 --> 00:52:46,160
Speaker 1: Quartz's gun is pointing directly at you, or like the

941
00:52:47,120 --> 00:52:49,560
Speaker 1: beak of his flying beast is like, you know, coming

942
00:52:49,600 --> 00:52:50,160
Speaker 1: out of the screen.

943
00:52:50,400 --> 00:52:52,839
Speaker 4: It's more like as they're underwater.

944
00:52:53,160 --> 00:52:54,759
Speaker 3: That's really got me.

945
00:52:54,920 --> 00:52:59,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, you see these like motes of of of light

946
00:52:59,560 --> 00:53:00,719
Speaker 1: and different substances.

947
00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:05,600
Speaker 3: Just y, Yeah, that's the coolest stuff, and it just

948
00:53:05,880 --> 00:53:08,320
Speaker 3: it really feels like you're underwater.

949
00:53:08,480 --> 00:53:09,600
Speaker 2: It was really cool.

950
00:53:11,320 --> 00:53:16,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was that to me was my favorite new

951
00:53:16,520 --> 00:53:20,920
Speaker 3: development in this movie. I am not the biggest original

952
00:53:20,920 --> 00:53:23,359
Speaker 3: Avatar stan and I cannot say that this film has

953
00:53:23,880 --> 00:53:28,000
Speaker 3: turned me into one, but I was very immersed in

954
00:53:28,080 --> 00:53:32,920
Speaker 3: that spectacle and experience, especially for me the immersive three D.

955
00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:36,279
Speaker 3: I really enjoy that experience and I'd love to see that,

956
00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:39,680
Speaker 3: you know, in all different kinds of movies. So that

957
00:53:39,680 --> 00:53:41,640
Speaker 3: that was a big selling point for me.

958
00:53:42,040 --> 00:53:44,120
Speaker 1: Rosie, do you think people need to see this movie

959
00:53:44,320 --> 00:53:46,560
Speaker 1: that need to see the first Avatar before they see

960
00:53:46,880 --> 00:53:47,719
Speaker 1: Avatar where you water?

961
00:53:48,320 --> 00:53:50,799
Speaker 3: You know what, I don't think it's a full necessity

962
00:53:50,880 --> 00:53:53,640
Speaker 3: because I feel like the opening of the movie does

963
00:53:53,680 --> 00:53:56,160
Speaker 3: a lot of heavy list lifting when it comes to

964
00:53:56,239 --> 00:54:01,000
Speaker 3: introducing the characters, introducing the family, introducing Jake's j I

965
00:54:01,040 --> 00:54:04,759
Speaker 3: would also say that this movie follows a lot of

966
00:54:04,840 --> 00:54:08,160
Speaker 3: similar thematic beat says the first movie. So I think

967
00:54:08,200 --> 00:54:11,759
Speaker 3: that you can really understand the world of Avatar. But

968
00:54:12,040 --> 00:54:15,560
Speaker 3: I will say that I do think that if you

969
00:54:15,600 --> 00:54:17,880
Speaker 3: wanted to rewatch it and also see whether you were

970
00:54:17,920 --> 00:54:19,560
Speaker 3: a fan, because I feel like this is very much

971
00:54:19,600 --> 00:54:21,560
Speaker 3: like if you really like the first movie, you're probably

972
00:54:21,560 --> 00:54:24,359
Speaker 3: gonna really like or love this movie. So it's also

973
00:54:24,400 --> 00:54:28,080
Speaker 3: a good kind of watermark. But I don't necessarily think

974
00:54:28,120 --> 00:54:31,320
Speaker 3: it's a necessity to see the first one before coming

975
00:54:31,320 --> 00:54:35,239
Speaker 3: into this. I do think that if you're gonna do it,

976
00:54:35,280 --> 00:54:37,680
Speaker 3: probably watch the first one before you see this, because

977
00:54:37,680 --> 00:54:40,200
Speaker 3: once you've watched this one, the graphics of the first

978
00:54:40,239 --> 00:54:41,360
Speaker 3: one look very dated.

979
00:54:41,680 --> 00:54:43,239
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, very very vrritated.

980
00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:45,360
Speaker 1: I'll say this, I think, what's I think if you

981
00:54:45,680 --> 00:54:48,279
Speaker 1: wanted to go back and just kind of refresher, you

982
00:54:48,320 --> 00:54:51,319
Speaker 1: haven't seen the first Avatar, what you need to do

983
00:54:51,400 --> 00:54:54,840
Speaker 1: is watch the first thirty minutes of the First Avatar

984
00:54:54,920 --> 00:54:59,399
Speaker 1: because you need to understand how the Avatar technology works, Like.

985
00:54:59,400 --> 00:55:00,840
Speaker 2: What it is.

986
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:04,920
Speaker 1: That's how Jake came to be in the Nave body,

987
00:55:04,960 --> 00:55:08,640
Speaker 1: where the Navi bodies come from. And you know, there

988
00:55:08,680 --> 00:55:12,279
Speaker 1: are various scenes like the torture of Spider that kind

989
00:55:12,280 --> 00:55:19,440
Speaker 1: of like hinge on the audience's understanding of how the

990
00:55:19,520 --> 00:55:22,600
Speaker 1: kind of like Avatar and the high technology of this

991
00:55:23,120 --> 00:55:26,279
Speaker 1: of this you know, age of humanity's like ability to

992
00:55:26,320 --> 00:55:28,640
Speaker 1: peer into the human brain, like how what they can

993
00:55:28,680 --> 00:55:31,640
Speaker 1: do with that technology. And so I think it's important

994
00:55:31,680 --> 00:55:34,680
Speaker 1: to kind of like have that as like an understanding

995
00:55:34,680 --> 00:55:36,520
Speaker 1: of the world and the kind of world building of it,

996
00:55:36,600 --> 00:55:40,080
Speaker 1: how human race came to be on Pandora, how they

997
00:55:40,120 --> 00:55:43,239
Speaker 1: get there, how far it is, why they're there. I

998
00:55:43,239 --> 00:55:46,200
Speaker 1: think all that stuff happens basically in the first half

999
00:55:46,239 --> 00:55:50,280
Speaker 1: hour forty five minutes of the three hour plus epic

1000
00:55:50,320 --> 00:55:53,400
Speaker 1: of Avatar number one, two thousand and nine. You know Avatar,

1001
00:55:53,920 --> 00:55:58,000
Speaker 1: And if you didn't have three hours plus to carve out,

1002
00:55:58,680 --> 00:56:01,360
Speaker 1: then just watch the first thirty to forty five minutes

1003
00:56:01,600 --> 00:56:03,960
Speaker 1: of the first Avatar to kind of understand the reality

1004
00:56:03,960 --> 00:56:07,000
Speaker 1: of where we are and the rest of it. You'll understand,

1005
00:56:07,040 --> 00:56:09,920
Speaker 1: like there's a bad guy. It's basically dances with wolves

1006
00:56:09,960 --> 00:56:14,960
Speaker 1: in space only this time the indigenous win.

1007
00:56:15,800 --> 00:56:20,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's very interesting. Let's talk about something because you

1008
00:56:20,320 --> 00:56:22,360
Speaker 3: say that, right, and that immediately makes me feel like,

1009
00:56:22,400 --> 00:56:26,000
Speaker 3: you know, we talked a lot about the way that

1010
00:56:26,239 --> 00:56:31,640
Speaker 3: and Or dealt with real life analogous storytelling that felt radical.

1011
00:56:31,680 --> 00:56:33,520
Speaker 3: But you made a really great point in the lead

1012
00:56:33,600 --> 00:56:38,040
Speaker 3: up to this episode about your reading of the accessibility

1013
00:56:38,560 --> 00:56:41,200
Speaker 3: of Avatar and could you speak a little bit to that.

1014
00:56:41,800 --> 00:56:46,200
Speaker 1: Sure, Well, I just think James Cameron is a is

1015
00:56:46,280 --> 00:56:50,759
Speaker 1: truly a master filmmaker, a truly master storyteller in.

1016
00:56:52,560 --> 00:56:53,640
Speaker 2: A medium that.

1017
00:56:53,760 --> 00:56:59,799
Speaker 1: Is is basically like box office blockbuster, like that is

1018
00:57:00,080 --> 00:57:05,279
Speaker 1: his milieu. He understands how to create a story that

1019
00:57:06,160 --> 00:57:11,920
Speaker 1: crosses all kinds of national, ideological and political lines, to

1020
00:57:12,040 --> 00:57:16,440
Speaker 1: create a story that is accessible to the biggest possible

1021
00:57:16,480 --> 00:57:19,040
Speaker 1: audience ever. This is one of the what five movies

1022
00:57:19,080 --> 00:57:21,360
Speaker 1: this year the American films that's going to open in China?

1023
00:57:21,440 --> 00:57:23,360
Speaker 4: Right, they think it's going to do two hundred million

1024
00:57:23,400 --> 00:57:23,800
Speaker 4: in China.

1025
00:57:25,160 --> 00:57:25,840
Speaker 2: Why is that?

1026
00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:32,200
Speaker 1: It's because he's able to gesture at all these different

1027
00:57:32,320 --> 00:57:36,560
Speaker 1: kinds of groups and concerns that different groups have about

1028
00:57:36,640 --> 00:57:41,480
Speaker 1: stories in this extremely fractured, you know, political era that

1029
00:57:41,480 --> 00:57:45,320
Speaker 1: we're living. In and create something like unified out of it,

1030
00:57:45,360 --> 00:57:48,000
Speaker 1: and there's something almost diabolical about it.

1031
00:57:48,040 --> 00:57:50,480
Speaker 2: So this is what this is. This is what I mean.

1032
00:57:50,840 --> 00:57:52,760
Speaker 1: On the one hand, like we live in an age

1033
00:57:52,760 --> 00:57:57,560
Speaker 1: in which I think people rightly and fairly are concerned

1034
00:57:57,800 --> 00:58:03,720
Speaker 1: about diversity, about depictions of diversity, and they want to

1035
00:58:03,720 --> 00:58:07,400
Speaker 1: see themselves reflected on screen. So here is a story

1036
00:58:07,640 --> 00:58:13,160
Speaker 1: about an indigenous people, right, an indigenous group.

1037
00:58:13,760 --> 00:58:13,960
Speaker 4: Uh.

1038
00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:19,320
Speaker 1: They're essentially underdogs at the same time, so that that

1039
00:58:19,520 --> 00:58:22,840
Speaker 1: gives you like entree and they don't look like us, right,

1040
00:58:22,880 --> 00:58:26,160
Speaker 1: they have different ways of being. They're very connected to

1041
00:58:26,320 --> 00:58:30,280
Speaker 1: nature in a way that feels like you know, uh

1042
00:58:30,360 --> 00:58:34,680
Speaker 1: uh and at times almost simplistic mapping of indigenous concerns

1043
00:58:34,720 --> 00:58:39,160
Speaker 1: and an indigenous character onto onto a sci fi character.

1044
00:58:39,760 --> 00:58:44,880
Speaker 1: At the same time, this is a group that also

1045
00:58:45,120 --> 00:58:50,360
Speaker 1: reaches like a cross that has an appeal beyond that

1046
00:58:50,480 --> 00:58:54,000
Speaker 1: kind of you know, uh, a kind of narrow sliced

1047
00:58:54,000 --> 00:59:00,240
Speaker 1: appeal because they're a unified ethno religious group right there there,

1048
00:59:00,600 --> 00:59:05,880
Speaker 1: they have they and their religion is at the center

1049
00:59:06,120 --> 00:59:11,520
Speaker 1: of their existence. So they're very religious, mono culture and

1050
00:59:12,440 --> 00:59:16,760
Speaker 1: they have very very traditional gender roles, like at one

1051
00:59:16,760 --> 00:59:21,520
Speaker 1: point Jake says, a father's role is to protect, you know,

1052
00:59:21,640 --> 00:59:27,760
Speaker 1: Like this film opens with Jake teaching Natayam, his oldest son,

1053
00:59:27,960 --> 00:59:32,560
Speaker 1: like how to fish, and meanwhile, it's like Natiri, his wife,

1054
00:59:32,720 --> 00:59:35,200
Speaker 1: who's the bow and arrow is her thing? Like she

1055
00:59:35,360 --> 00:59:39,040
Speaker 1: is an absolute fucking artist with the bow and arrow,

1056
00:59:40,200 --> 00:59:43,040
Speaker 1: and that is in fact in this movie, that's like

1057
00:59:43,160 --> 00:59:46,200
Speaker 1: her calling card, Like Korrig is able to identify like

1058
00:59:46,280 --> 00:59:47,520
Speaker 1: her by her arrows.

1059
00:59:48,760 --> 00:59:50,040
Speaker 2: But it's Jake.

1060
00:59:49,880 --> 00:59:52,880
Speaker 1: Who's teaching the kids to hunt, not Natiri who's doing

1061
00:59:52,960 --> 00:59:55,320
Speaker 1: Natiri not to say that, but at the same time,

1062
00:59:55,360 --> 00:59:59,080
Speaker 1: she is a warrior. She is a fierce warrior by

1063
00:59:59,120 --> 01:00:02,440
Speaker 1: that same token, and we never we see her like

1064
01:00:02,600 --> 01:00:06,960
Speaker 1: preparing food in a very traditional kind of way, like

1065
01:00:07,080 --> 01:00:09,440
Speaker 1: in the huts, chopping up fish.

1066
01:00:09,240 --> 01:00:12,360
Speaker 2: And preparing stuff for the family life, an act we

1067
01:00:12,480 --> 01:00:14,000
Speaker 2: never see Jake doing.

1068
01:00:14,440 --> 01:00:18,440
Speaker 1: Right, So it's able to appeal to people who care

1069
01:00:18,480 --> 01:00:20,400
Speaker 1: about diversity and also people who are like, there's too

1070
01:00:20,440 --> 01:00:23,640
Speaker 1: much diversity in this world. It's able to open in China,

1071
01:00:24,120 --> 01:00:26,840
Speaker 1: right because who are the fucking bad.

1072
01:00:26,720 --> 01:00:27,320
Speaker 2: Guys in this movie?

1073
01:00:27,400 --> 01:00:31,919
Speaker 1: The American military, the American corporate and military interests are

1074
01:00:31,960 --> 01:00:33,520
Speaker 1: the bad guys in this film. Who are the and

1075
01:00:33,680 --> 01:00:36,840
Speaker 1: why can't it open in America? Also because who's the

1076
01:00:36,880 --> 01:00:40,479
Speaker 1: good guy in this film? An American soldier, a white guy.

1077
01:00:40,720 --> 01:00:44,880
Speaker 1: The greatest Nave in the history of NAVI is a

1078
01:00:44,920 --> 01:00:49,520
Speaker 1: white man named Jake. We love shit like that, and

1079
01:00:49,560 --> 01:00:53,960
Speaker 1: so it's really interesting the way he is. He has

1080
01:00:54,560 --> 01:01:02,080
Speaker 1: like crafted this story that just has absolutely massive universal appeal,

1081
01:01:02,520 --> 01:01:06,200
Speaker 1: not just to people like who you know love movies

1082
01:01:06,280 --> 01:01:08,160
Speaker 1: quote unquote the way they used to be, but people

1083
01:01:08,160 --> 01:01:12,920
Speaker 1: who care about like uh about representation and things now,

1084
01:01:13,000 --> 01:01:17,360
Speaker 1: Like that is it's diabolical what he's done. It's really

1085
01:01:17,480 --> 01:01:20,520
Speaker 1: crazy what he's done it and it absolutely works, Like

1086
01:01:21,680 --> 01:01:23,520
Speaker 1: is there a cynical element to it?

1087
01:01:23,600 --> 01:01:24,760
Speaker 2: Yeah? I think so, yes.

1088
01:01:25,120 --> 01:01:30,840
Speaker 1: At the same time, like when Pyocan starts wrecking shop

1089
01:01:31,040 --> 01:01:36,480
Speaker 1: and hurling whalers like into the water and slapping them

1090
01:01:36,480 --> 01:01:38,960
Speaker 1: with his tail so that their bodies just like fucking

1091
01:01:38,960 --> 01:01:41,720
Speaker 1: go rag dolling across the deck and then the Nave

1092
01:01:41,920 --> 01:01:44,880
Speaker 1: show up and start spearing dudes like out of their

1093
01:01:44,960 --> 01:01:48,840
Speaker 1: quad copters. I'm like, fuck, yeah, kill them absolute, let's

1094
01:01:48,960 --> 01:01:52,280
Speaker 1: kill these fucking bastards, please, like kill them all.

1095
01:01:52,360 --> 01:01:52,920
Speaker 4: I love it.

1096
01:01:53,840 --> 01:01:58,080
Speaker 1: So this shit really works, like it's it's it's amazing

1097
01:01:58,120 --> 01:02:00,240
Speaker 1: and it's got and there's a through line with a

1098
01:02:00,240 --> 01:02:02,560
Speaker 1: lot of the stuff that James Karen has cared about

1099
01:02:02,840 --> 01:02:08,560
Speaker 1: for basically hisn entire filmmaking career, which is, you know, militarism,

1100
01:02:09,280 --> 01:02:13,160
Speaker 1: the the effects, the wide ranging effects of corporate power,

1101
01:02:13,560 --> 01:02:17,280
Speaker 1: the effects of capitalism outside of the view of the

1102
01:02:17,400 --> 01:02:21,720
Speaker 1: kind of.

1103
01:02:19,680 --> 01:02:21,440
Speaker 2: The general public.

1104
01:02:21,560 --> 01:02:24,320
Speaker 1: Like this is, it's always like what happens when a

1105
01:02:24,360 --> 01:02:27,640
Speaker 1: corporation goes to space with military power, What happens when

1106
01:02:27,640 --> 01:02:33,560
Speaker 1: a corporation, you know, is mining off world as in aliens.

1107
01:02:33,920 --> 01:02:36,800
Speaker 1: What happens when they're when they're placing colonies on another

1108
01:02:37,080 --> 01:02:40,160
Speaker 1: earth in another world? Excuse me, what happens when they're

1109
01:02:40,200 --> 01:02:42,880
Speaker 1: mining outside of the view of the press and stuff

1110
01:02:42,920 --> 01:02:44,960
Speaker 1: like that. This is like the kind of shit he

1111
01:02:45,040 --> 01:02:50,080
Speaker 1: cares about. What happens when when technology runs amok. This

1112
01:02:50,160 --> 01:02:52,600
Speaker 1: is the stuff that James Karen cares about. And of

1113
01:02:52,640 --> 01:02:56,600
Speaker 1: course we all know he absolutely loves the oceans. This

1114
01:02:56,680 --> 01:03:02,240
Speaker 1: guy loves them, So it's how incredible what he has

1115
01:03:02,280 --> 01:03:02,720
Speaker 1: done here.

1116
01:03:03,120 --> 01:03:07,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that your point is so astute about

1117
01:03:07,560 --> 01:03:12,360
Speaker 3: that wide appeal. I think that's why for some people

1118
01:03:12,960 --> 01:03:15,960
Speaker 3: like myself, it's not always going to hit because that

1119
01:03:16,400 --> 01:03:21,080
Speaker 3: the vagaries or the the lack of making a solid

1120
01:03:21,120 --> 01:03:24,920
Speaker 3: commitment to a message or a story, you know. And

1121
01:03:25,000 --> 01:03:29,080
Speaker 3: I also something that I struggle with after watching last

1122
01:03:29,160 --> 01:03:33,080
Speaker 3: night that ABC twenty twenty special Avatar The Deep Dive

1123
01:03:33,320 --> 01:03:37,280
Speaker 3: about making this movie. I think that there is a

1124
01:03:37,400 --> 01:03:40,120
Speaker 3: very interesting conversation to be had by different people than me,

1125
01:03:40,200 --> 01:03:44,240
Speaker 3: but I will be seeking it out. The way that

1126
01:03:44,320 --> 01:03:51,360
Speaker 3: the Navvy have always been very coded towards like different races,

1127
01:03:51,800 --> 01:03:53,840
Speaker 3: but then the people that are brought in to play

1128
01:03:53,880 --> 01:03:56,720
Speaker 3: the characters, like I was very surprised to find that Ranal,

1129
01:03:57,040 --> 01:03:59,840
Speaker 3: who is the wife of the you know, the Mechcane,

1130
01:04:00,720 --> 01:04:04,640
Speaker 3: the water People's leader. Again, she's the wife and he's

1131
01:04:04,720 --> 01:04:08,040
Speaker 3: the he's the husband and he's the leader. She's played

1132
01:04:08,040 --> 01:04:12,360
Speaker 3: by Kate Winslet, even though they're very obviously inspired visually

1133
01:04:12,400 --> 01:04:15,880
Speaker 3: by the Maori and married communities. Now her husband is

1134
01:04:15,920 --> 01:04:19,080
Speaker 3: played by a married actor. But there's just some things

1135
01:04:19,160 --> 01:04:22,520
Speaker 3: like that for this and the kind of the choices

1136
01:04:22,560 --> 01:04:27,360
Speaker 3: that they make in representing this kind of alien indigenous

1137
01:04:27,600 --> 01:04:30,920
Speaker 3: community that just doesn't really sit for me. But I

1138
01:04:30,960 --> 01:04:33,160
Speaker 3: will say it does follow many of the traditions of

1139
01:04:33,280 --> 01:04:35,640
Speaker 3: things that we love about comic books. It is an

1140
01:04:35,680 --> 01:04:38,919
Speaker 3: analogous story. It's just now we're living in a great time.

1141
01:04:38,960 --> 01:04:43,439
Speaker 3: Twenty twenty two has been an amazing year for indigenous

1142
01:04:44,240 --> 01:04:47,680
Speaker 3: entertainment made by Indigenous people, whether it's Spirit Rangers on

1143
01:04:47,760 --> 01:04:51,840
Speaker 3: Netflix or Prey or you Know Well, which wasn't made

1144
01:04:51,840 --> 01:04:54,000
Speaker 3: by an Indigenous person but had a lot of Indigenous

1145
01:04:54,040 --> 01:04:57,280
Speaker 3: people working on it, including the producer. Also you know

1146
01:04:57,320 --> 01:05:01,800
Speaker 3: obviously Reservation Dogs. Ye. So I think like that puts

1147
01:05:01,840 --> 01:05:03,600
Speaker 3: it into a different light. I feel like this is

1148
01:05:03,640 --> 01:05:06,560
Speaker 3: still a very two thousand and nine story even in

1149
01:05:06,600 --> 01:05:11,200
Speaker 3: twenty twenty two, and I think that for me, shines

1150
01:05:11,280 --> 01:05:13,600
Speaker 3: through a little bit more narratively because of the other

1151
01:05:14,960 --> 01:05:18,520
Speaker 3: entertainment that we kind of get to imbibe in the

1152
01:05:18,560 --> 01:05:23,720
Speaker 3: stories that we get to experience. But it is a

1153
01:05:23,000 --> 01:05:27,400
Speaker 3: it's a wild spectacle and an absolute feat of kind

1154
01:05:27,480 --> 01:05:30,360
Speaker 3: of showing what you can do with CGI. I also

1155
01:05:30,440 --> 01:05:32,480
Speaker 3: like to think this movie took you know, like thirteen

1156
01:05:32,560 --> 01:05:33,439
Speaker 3: years to get made.

1157
01:05:33,760 --> 01:05:34,000
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1158
01:05:35,120 --> 01:05:38,400
Speaker 3: I like to think that it's like the I hope

1159
01:05:38,400 --> 01:05:40,040
Speaker 3: that this is not wrong and there won't be horror

1160
01:05:40,040 --> 01:05:41,880
Speaker 3: stories coming out, but I like to think that this

1161
01:05:42,000 --> 01:05:45,680
Speaker 3: is like the most sustainable CG heavy movie that's ever

1162
01:05:45,720 --> 01:05:48,080
Speaker 3: been made and that everyone who worked on it got

1163
01:05:48,080 --> 01:05:50,520
Speaker 3: like a long time to do all the effects and everything,

1164
01:05:50,560 --> 01:05:53,440
Speaker 3: because like that's the horrible thing about watching a Marvel

1165
01:05:53,480 --> 01:05:56,480
Speaker 3: movie or a DC movie, a Star Wars movie. You know,

1166
01:05:56,680 --> 01:05:58,800
Speaker 3: you hear all these horror stories about the incredible v

1167
01:05:58,880 --> 01:06:01,640
Speaker 3: effects artists just being run into the ground. And I

1168
01:06:01,680 --> 01:06:04,440
Speaker 3: love the idea that James Cameron's just like chilling taking

1169
01:06:04,520 --> 01:06:07,720
Speaker 3: his time, giving everyone like a really good amount of

1170
01:06:07,760 --> 01:06:09,800
Speaker 3: time to walk on the movie. This seems like a

1171
01:06:09,880 --> 01:06:11,520
Speaker 3: very James Cameron move.

1172
01:06:12,760 --> 01:06:13,560
Speaker 2: It really does.

1173
01:06:14,440 --> 01:06:16,720
Speaker 1: This movie needs to make over a billion dollars just

1174
01:06:16,760 --> 01:06:20,200
Speaker 1: to like break even, So that's gonna be something to watch.

1175
01:06:20,640 --> 01:06:23,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, COVID, how do you think that's going to go?

1176
01:06:23,120 --> 01:06:25,360
Speaker 3: Because we are in a different cinematicandscape.

1177
01:06:25,600 --> 01:06:27,640
Speaker 1: I think this movie is gonna make I think it's

1178
01:06:27,640 --> 01:06:29,240
Speaker 1: gonna make billions of dollars. I think it's going to

1179
01:06:29,320 --> 01:06:32,280
Speaker 1: do it again because I think, you know, I was

1180
01:06:32,320 --> 01:06:36,520
Speaker 1: struck when I was doing my research for for rewatching

1181
01:06:36,560 --> 01:06:41,120
Speaker 1: Avatar ahead of watching Way of Water. How why again,

1182
01:06:41,200 --> 01:06:43,040
Speaker 1: how wide raging the peel of that movie was. There

1183
01:06:43,120 --> 01:06:46,200
Speaker 1: was like a story from two thousand and nine of

1184
01:06:46,280 --> 01:06:51,600
Speaker 1: these Palestinian protesters dressed up like they had painted their

1185
01:06:51,960 --> 01:06:56,320
Speaker 1: bodies like nave. And again you have this story that

1186
01:06:56,440 --> 01:07:02,800
Speaker 1: appeals to people who feel on who feel like they

1187
01:07:03,200 --> 01:07:09,080
Speaker 1: fall on either side of the various conversations about imperialism

1188
01:07:09,200 --> 01:07:13,920
Speaker 1: and colonialism, like to name one of the of the

1189
01:07:13,960 --> 01:07:16,920
Speaker 1: many dualities that this movie manages to straddle. In this

1190
01:07:17,160 --> 01:07:21,960
Speaker 1: these two movies manages to straddle. It's it's honestly really

1191
01:07:22,200 --> 01:07:24,439
Speaker 1: crazy that he's managed to do this. And I feel

1192
01:07:24,440 --> 01:07:26,960
Speaker 1: the same way about you in terms of like the

1193
01:07:26,960 --> 01:07:29,520
Speaker 1: the maor codedness. Obviously the first one, you know, when

1194
01:07:29,520 --> 01:07:32,000
Speaker 1: I was rewatching it the other night, it is like

1195
01:07:32,320 --> 01:07:40,520
Speaker 1: striking how how American indigenous coded. It is like it's

1196
01:07:40,560 --> 01:07:43,120
Speaker 1: not even you can't even see coded because it basically

1197
01:07:43,360 --> 01:07:46,640
Speaker 1: is like from the war yelps to the casting of

1198
01:07:46,640 --> 01:07:50,320
Speaker 1: West Study to you know, like this is what it is, you.

1199
01:07:50,280 --> 01:07:52,320
Speaker 3: Know, the strange like the one thing that I think

1200
01:07:52,360 --> 01:07:55,520
Speaker 3: I saw some reviewers kind of astutely point this out,

1201
01:07:55,840 --> 01:08:00,000
Speaker 3: but like the costume designs, they lean into this strange

1202
01:08:00,200 --> 01:08:04,000
Speaker 3: sexualization of the characters even and that I think is

1203
01:08:04,040 --> 01:08:06,640
Speaker 3: something that feels more in line of the outdated kind

1204
01:08:06,680 --> 01:08:09,480
Speaker 3: of coding of how how those characters were often portrayed.

1205
01:08:09,760 --> 01:08:12,320
Speaker 3: So it's those little things that I think. But you

1206
01:08:12,320 --> 01:08:14,400
Speaker 3: know what if it if it gets people to feel

1207
01:08:14,600 --> 01:08:16,880
Speaker 3: a little bit more thoughtful about this stuff, that's always

1208
01:08:16,920 --> 01:08:17,400
Speaker 3: a good thing.

1209
01:08:17,640 --> 01:08:20,000
Speaker 1: Now I will say that I think I liked it.

1210
01:08:20,040 --> 01:08:21,519
Speaker 1: Clearly I liked it more than you. I had a

1211
01:08:21,560 --> 01:08:24,519
Speaker 1: good time because you know, I for me, it's like

1212
01:08:24,840 --> 01:08:27,120
Speaker 1: the story is whatever. I feel the same way about

1213
01:08:27,160 --> 01:08:30,880
Speaker 1: the First Avatar. It's like that movie opens up and

1214
01:08:31,479 --> 01:08:34,560
Speaker 1: half an hour into it, it's like, Okay, I understand

1215
01:08:34,760 --> 01:08:37,680
Speaker 1: what's happening here. Yeah, it's such This is not a

1216
01:08:37,680 --> 01:08:40,280
Speaker 1: subtle movie. And it's the same thing with Way of Water.

1217
01:08:40,520 --> 01:08:42,720
Speaker 1: You know, this is not a movie where you know,

1218
01:08:43,160 --> 01:08:47,360
Speaker 1: you get to the end of act two and you

1219
01:08:47,400 --> 01:08:51,640
Speaker 1: can feel the story mechanisms working adequately so that like

1220
01:08:51,760 --> 01:08:54,720
Speaker 1: the villains, you hate them more to you know, like

1221
01:08:55,280 --> 01:08:57,200
Speaker 1: more than anything else in the world, and you want

1222
01:08:57,200 --> 01:08:59,439
Speaker 1: the heroes to just like whoop their asses, and you

1223
01:08:59,520 --> 01:09:01,320
Speaker 1: understand that this movie is going to give it to you.

1224
01:09:01,360 --> 01:09:03,000
Speaker 1: There's never a moment where you're like, this movie is

1225
01:09:03,040 --> 01:09:04,960
Speaker 1: not going to give me that hero is kicking the

1226
01:09:05,040 --> 01:09:06,080
Speaker 1: villain's assets moment.

1227
01:09:06,120 --> 01:09:08,160
Speaker 2: So I enjoyed it for the spectacle.

1228
01:09:08,080 --> 01:09:17,600
Speaker 1: And because there's almost something again mathematical archetetical about and

1229
01:09:18,160 --> 01:09:23,320
Speaker 1: about the amount of kind of thought that Cameron has

1230
01:09:23,360 --> 01:09:29,679
Speaker 1: put into crafting a story that you know, super producer

1231
01:09:29,720 --> 01:09:31,479
Speaker 1: Sol and I were talking about like tropes of sci

1232
01:09:31,479 --> 01:09:34,760
Speaker 1: fi and how many various tropes and of sci fi

1233
01:09:34,800 --> 01:09:37,840
Speaker 1: and storytelling were at large that the Avatar series uses.

1234
01:09:38,240 --> 01:09:43,840
Speaker 1: That it's really beyond tropes the way the way this

1235
01:09:44,040 --> 01:09:47,679
Speaker 1: story and Cameron is able to take themes and things

1236
01:09:47,760 --> 01:09:51,680
Speaker 1: that different groups care care about and kind of like

1237
01:09:51,800 --> 01:09:57,439
Speaker 1: boil them down into the most universal like ideals that

1238
01:09:57,520 --> 01:10:01,559
Speaker 1: people hold, like it's important to protect the family, and

1239
01:10:01,640 --> 01:10:06,680
Speaker 1: that your land is worth defending, that people should have

1240
01:10:06,720 --> 01:10:12,240
Speaker 1: a connection to their community, that religion is important and

1241
01:10:12,520 --> 01:10:19,960
Speaker 1: is worth respecting. That you know, unchecked consumerism that destroys cultures.

1242
01:10:19,520 --> 01:10:20,680
Speaker 4: Is bad, you know.

1243
01:10:20,800 --> 01:10:25,840
Speaker 1: And at the same time, there are a lot of

1244
01:10:25,880 --> 01:10:28,639
Speaker 1: things here like I'm interested to see what the response

1245
01:10:28,680 --> 01:10:30,479
Speaker 1: from the Marory communities, Like, there are a lot of

1246
01:10:30,560 --> 01:10:35,040
Speaker 1: things here where I'm like, gosh, I wonder how people

1247
01:10:35,120 --> 01:10:38,519
Speaker 1: are going to feel and talk about this, because again.

1248
01:10:38,320 --> 01:10:39,800
Speaker 3: I'm interested to see that.

1249
01:10:40,840 --> 01:10:46,360
Speaker 1: And it feels like the most consciously apolitical movie that

1250
01:10:46,400 --> 01:10:49,400
Speaker 1: we've seen, certainly in a long time.

1251
01:10:49,720 --> 01:10:49,880
Speaker 5: Now.

1252
01:10:49,920 --> 01:10:51,840
Speaker 2: The other thing that I do like about.

1253
01:10:51,560 --> 01:10:54,400
Speaker 1: This movie, actually love about this movie is that we

1254
01:10:54,479 --> 01:10:59,439
Speaker 1: haven't had a smoke a big joint and just like

1255
01:10:59,560 --> 01:11:03,800
Speaker 1: sit back movie to watch the movie, I haven't we

1256
01:11:04,000 --> 01:11:05,880
Speaker 1: have not had one of those in a long time,

1257
01:11:05,960 --> 01:11:08,360
Speaker 1: Like you know the MCU movies. You kind of have

1258
01:11:08,439 --> 01:11:13,840
Speaker 1: to understand what happened in like thirty three other films. Uh,

1259
01:11:14,840 --> 01:11:19,040
Speaker 1: there hasn't been like an epic, just like Get Baked

1260
01:11:19,120 --> 01:11:21,680
Speaker 1: and enjoy the visuals movie in a long time. And

1261
01:11:21,720 --> 01:11:25,599
Speaker 1: in that sense, I actually quite liked Avatar. And again

1262
01:11:25,920 --> 01:11:29,559
Speaker 1: when the nove in the third act start striking back,

1263
01:11:30,479 --> 01:11:33,960
Speaker 1: the story mechanisms absolutely worked on me, and I was like, yes,

1264
01:11:34,240 --> 01:11:39,720
Speaker 1: show me in slow mo, you know, sixty frames a

1265
01:11:39,800 --> 01:11:44,040
Speaker 1: second detail. Show me a novey grab a guy by

1266
01:11:44,080 --> 01:11:46,559
Speaker 1: the head and throw them.

1267
01:11:46,600 --> 01:11:48,280
Speaker 2: Off the ship into the water.

1268
01:11:48,680 --> 01:11:51,240
Speaker 1: Show me show me a nove hitting them in the

1269
01:11:51,360 --> 01:11:52,960
Speaker 1: face with their bows.

1270
01:11:52,880 --> 01:11:56,360
Speaker 3: Shood chopped off in three D and coming towards you

1271
01:11:56,439 --> 01:11:57,080
Speaker 3: into the light.

1272
01:11:57,680 --> 01:12:04,400
Speaker 1: Show me PIU can like fucking bouncing a explosive harpoon

1273
01:12:04,680 --> 01:12:08,959
Speaker 1: off his metal skulp plate. So that was pretty badass.

1274
01:12:09,040 --> 01:12:11,920
Speaker 1: So that it hits another boat and those soldiers.

1275
01:12:11,439 --> 01:12:13,559
Speaker 2: Go flying like that part of it was really cool.

1276
01:12:13,560 --> 01:12:17,960
Speaker 1: But I will again, there's a level, there's a way

1277
01:12:18,040 --> 01:12:21,560
Speaker 1: to look at the way this entire story is structured

1278
01:12:21,680 --> 01:12:26,719
Speaker 1: and fuel like there's just like a lot of cynicism here.

1279
01:12:27,360 --> 01:12:29,840
Speaker 3: I I'm very the funniest thing is right. I think

1280
01:12:30,200 --> 01:12:32,479
Speaker 3: talking to you about it as always has enlightened me.

1281
01:12:32,560 --> 01:12:35,479
Speaker 3: I think I think the major reason, one of the

1282
01:12:35,479 --> 01:12:37,479
Speaker 3: major reasons that I didn't love the first one, and

1283
01:12:37,520 --> 01:12:39,439
Speaker 3: I still have not been fully converted, though I did

1284
01:12:39,600 --> 01:12:42,479
Speaker 3: enjoy this one more with the visuals. You know, I

1285
01:12:42,560 --> 01:12:45,320
Speaker 3: really I do not enjoy war movies. They are not

1286
01:12:45,439 --> 01:12:51,360
Speaker 3: something I've ever particularly enjoyed. There's obviously exceptions of movies

1287
01:12:51,400 --> 01:12:53,920
Speaker 3: that are like masterpieces, like all Quite on the Western

1288
01:12:53,960 --> 01:12:56,000
Speaker 3: Front and Come See and stuff like that, but like

1289
01:12:56,360 --> 01:13:00,400
Speaker 3: generally a militarized movie about like giant people there then

1290
01:13:00,439 --> 01:13:02,280
Speaker 3: they're shoot Well, if it was giants, that would be cool,

1291
01:13:02,280 --> 01:13:04,439
Speaker 3: but like big guys and they got guns and they're

1292
01:13:04,520 --> 01:13:06,880
Speaker 3: killing a bunch of people. That's never appealed to me.

1293
01:13:07,040 --> 01:13:11,720
Speaker 3: And those were actually the moments, the militarization aspects, even

1294
01:13:11,760 --> 01:13:13,800
Speaker 3: though they are portrayed negatively. And I do love to

1295
01:13:13,840 --> 01:13:17,960
Speaker 3: see American very negative negatively that to me, the stuff

1296
01:13:18,000 --> 01:13:21,160
Speaker 3: where I'd feel myself really getting immersed is like swimming

1297
01:13:21,240 --> 01:13:24,280
Speaker 3: under the water and seeing some cool creatures, and then

1298
01:13:24,320 --> 01:13:26,720
Speaker 3: as soon as it got back to the like violence

1299
01:13:26,920 --> 01:13:29,800
Speaker 3: and the military and stuff, that's kind of where I

1300
01:13:29,800 --> 01:13:33,120
Speaker 3: would lose my immersion in the movie and my kind

1301
01:13:33,160 --> 01:13:36,120
Speaker 3: of enjoyment. So I think that's it is in some ways,

1302
01:13:36,120 --> 01:13:37,640
Speaker 3: and this is the nature of the movie. It's a

1303
01:13:37,640 --> 01:13:40,320
Speaker 3: war movie, it's an anti war movie, but through the

1304
01:13:40,400 --> 01:13:43,479
Speaker 3: lens of here are the horrors of war, and in

1305
01:13:43,520 --> 01:13:46,519
Speaker 3: this case that is not necessarily what I'm looking for.

1306
01:13:46,560 --> 01:13:48,680
Speaker 3: In a way, I kind of like the more the

1307
01:13:48,720 --> 01:13:50,439
Speaker 3: aspects of it where it feels more like Europe. I

1308
01:13:50,520 --> 01:13:53,000
Speaker 3: used to go to the Imax a lot when I

1309
01:13:53,080 --> 01:13:55,639
Speaker 3: was a kid in London. They have a big Imax

1310
01:13:55,680 --> 01:13:57,599
Speaker 3: there there that for a long time was the biggest

1311
01:13:57,600 --> 01:14:00,320
Speaker 3: one in the world, and you could go and pay

1312
01:14:00,400 --> 01:14:03,559
Speaker 3: like five or six dollars and see a twenty five

1313
01:14:03,640 --> 01:14:06,160
Speaker 3: minute to forty five minute long movie that was made

1314
01:14:06,160 --> 01:14:09,200
Speaker 3: specifically to show off the Imax, and it would be

1315
01:14:09,240 --> 01:14:11,599
Speaker 3: I saw ones about like the X Games, I saw

1316
01:14:11,600 --> 01:14:14,000
Speaker 3: ones about dinosaurs, I saw one about under the sea,

1317
01:14:14,040 --> 01:14:15,639
Speaker 3: and there was a lot of moments in this where

1318
01:14:15,640 --> 01:14:17,559
Speaker 3: I was just like, I just wanted to lose myself

1319
01:14:17,560 --> 01:14:20,600
Speaker 3: in that huge spectacle of the vibe and experience a

1320
01:14:20,600 --> 01:14:25,040
Speaker 3: different world. And this does deliver that at certain points,

1321
01:14:25,040 --> 01:14:26,560
Speaker 3: but there's just things that were kind of taking me

1322
01:14:26,600 --> 01:14:28,840
Speaker 3: out of it. And I think it's that aspect of

1323
01:14:28,880 --> 01:14:30,920
Speaker 3: a story about war. I've always found that hard to

1324
01:14:30,960 --> 01:14:33,720
Speaker 3: connect with, even you know, throughout my life as a

1325
01:14:33,720 --> 01:14:37,080
Speaker 3: film lover. So yeah, I think it is. It's a

1326
01:14:37,200 --> 01:14:41,479
Speaker 3: very interesting conversation piece, and I think the conversations about

1327
01:14:41,479 --> 01:14:45,040
Speaker 3: it will be far more complex and long running than

1328
01:14:45,080 --> 01:14:48,120
Speaker 3: the kind of meme of the original Avatar, which was

1329
01:14:48,160 --> 01:14:49,840
Speaker 3: kind of like, oh, it's forgettable, even though it's the

1330
01:14:49,840 --> 01:14:52,160
Speaker 3: biggest movie in the world. This feels like there's going

1331
01:14:52,200 --> 01:14:54,120
Speaker 3: to be a lot more kind of in depth conversation

1332
01:14:55,360 --> 01:14:56,280
Speaker 3: had about it.

1333
01:14:57,720 --> 01:15:03,000
Speaker 1: Let's talk about Spider, So Spider, we must talk about Spider.

1334
01:15:03,080 --> 01:15:07,719
Speaker 1: So Spider again, the son, the biological son of Colonel Quaritch.

1335
01:15:07,800 --> 01:15:13,160
Speaker 1: He's raised on Pandora. He is both part of their

1336
01:15:13,240 --> 01:15:18,600
Speaker 1: world and not part of their world. He puts on

1337
01:15:18,880 --> 01:15:23,760
Speaker 1: blue body paint in a way that feels, you know,

1338
01:15:23,960 --> 01:15:29,559
Speaker 1: both you know, a nod and a kind of there's

1339
01:15:29,640 --> 01:15:33,439
Speaker 1: some you know, like a nod to the culture that

1340
01:15:33,520 --> 01:15:36,960
Speaker 1: he is immersed in, but also feels like weirdly, it

1341
01:15:37,080 --> 01:15:38,479
Speaker 1: just feels weird that.

1342
01:15:38,800 --> 01:15:39,640
Speaker 2: He's like doing that.

1343
01:15:40,080 --> 01:15:46,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, and Quarch captures him, uh, and then he is tortured,

1344
01:15:46,439 --> 01:15:51,439
Speaker 1: which is awful, but then kind of bonds with his

1345
01:15:51,520 --> 01:15:53,120
Speaker 1: father in an interesting.

1346
01:15:52,720 --> 01:15:54,679
Speaker 3: Way even though so so we just need to say,

1347
01:15:54,720 --> 01:15:57,840
Speaker 3: like James Cameron in avatat too way of what goes

1348
01:15:57,840 --> 01:15:59,760
Speaker 3: out of his way many times to say he is

1349
01:15:59,840 --> 01:16:03,519
Speaker 3: not technically the biological son of this Quaritch, because this

1350
01:16:03,600 --> 01:16:06,760
Speaker 3: Quoritch is like a random avatar. He is the biological

1351
01:16:06,800 --> 01:16:09,160
Speaker 3: son of the other Quoritch who all of his brain

1352
01:16:09,960 --> 01:16:14,200
Speaker 3: matta memories and on a USB drive went into the avatar.

1353
01:16:14,320 --> 01:16:17,400
Speaker 3: So they do have a connection, but they don't, and

1354
01:16:17,439 --> 01:16:18,960
Speaker 3: they play on that a lot to kind of do

1355
01:16:19,040 --> 01:16:22,360
Speaker 3: this like moral gray area where or like will they

1356
01:16:22,680 --> 01:16:24,000
Speaker 3: look after each other will they not?

1357
01:16:24,120 --> 01:16:31,080
Speaker 1: And they do obviously, And so Spider really becomes Quaritch

1358
01:16:31,240 --> 01:16:34,559
Speaker 1: is begrudging at times but really right hand person, like

1359
01:16:34,640 --> 01:16:39,000
Speaker 1: he helps with translations, He teaches them how to bond

1360
01:16:39,080 --> 01:16:44,360
Speaker 1: with animals using their braids, and in a moment that

1361
01:16:44,520 --> 01:16:48,919
Speaker 1: I think actually burns the character because all throughout Spider

1362
01:16:49,520 --> 01:16:53,800
Speaker 1: you can tell is empathizing with the various you know

1363
01:16:53,880 --> 01:16:57,759
Speaker 1: Nave who are being brutalized by these bi quartchs military

1364
01:16:57,800 --> 01:17:01,760
Speaker 1: forces and they're search for Jake. He he stops at

1365
01:17:01,840 --> 01:17:05,000
Speaker 1: various times his father from just like flat out murdering

1366
01:17:05,160 --> 01:17:08,000
Speaker 1: the Navi, like just to find Jake and to like

1367
01:17:08,160 --> 01:17:13,520
Speaker 1: send a message. But after the kind of like climactic

1368
01:17:13,600 --> 01:17:18,120
Speaker 1: battle between Jake and Quorich under the water where Jake

1369
01:17:18,360 --> 01:17:23,680
Speaker 1: chokes out Corrich, Spider, who is who has entered the

1370
01:17:23,720 --> 01:17:28,479
Speaker 1: wreck of this whaling vessel, sees his you know father

1371
01:17:28,560 --> 01:17:32,400
Speaker 1: and Nave form there drowning and decides, fuck it, I'm

1372
01:17:32,400 --> 01:17:36,920
Speaker 1: gonna save him. And it's a weird moment because on

1373
01:17:36,960 --> 01:17:41,800
Speaker 1: the one hand, this story is like wants you to

1374
01:17:41,880 --> 01:17:45,240
Speaker 1: feel for Spider as a as a as a being

1375
01:17:45,439 --> 01:17:48,719
Speaker 1: without a home, without a father. Yeah, his only father

1376
01:17:48,760 --> 01:17:51,719
Speaker 1: figure is not his father. He feels more at home

1377
01:17:51,880 --> 01:17:56,200
Speaker 1: amongst an alien species who don't who are very very

1378
01:17:56,520 --> 01:18:00,720
Speaker 1: kind and accepting to him as a family. They don't

1379
01:18:00,760 --> 01:18:04,960
Speaker 1: fully embrace him, right, They're never mean to him in anybody.

1380
01:18:04,280 --> 01:18:08,080
Speaker 3: Is cold, but the kids see him as a sibling.

1381
01:18:08,880 --> 01:18:10,920
Speaker 3: But really it's only Carrie.

1382
01:18:10,960 --> 01:18:17,240
Speaker 1: Who truly embraces him, right, and for him to save

1383
01:18:17,320 --> 01:18:20,600
Speaker 1: the life of their tormentor for reasons.

1384
01:18:21,439 --> 01:18:23,160
Speaker 3: It just has to be narrative reasons.

1385
01:18:23,360 --> 01:18:28,080
Speaker 1: That's that, yes, But sure, I mean, like obviously it's

1386
01:18:28,160 --> 01:18:31,360
Speaker 1: because no, because there isn't even the narrative reason.

1387
01:18:32,000 --> 01:18:33,599
Speaker 3: Like because they want him to be in the movie

1388
01:18:33,640 --> 01:18:34,080
Speaker 3: next time.

1389
01:18:34,360 --> 01:18:37,200
Speaker 1: But that doesn't even that doesn't even make sense because

1390
01:18:37,200 --> 01:18:39,320
Speaker 1: they've already established at the beginning of this movie that

1391
01:18:39,439 --> 01:18:43,040
Speaker 1: death doesn't matter. Just upload another fucking version of that

1392
01:18:44,280 --> 01:18:46,559
Speaker 1: saved on the hard drive into another Navvy body and

1393
01:18:46,920 --> 01:18:47,519
Speaker 1: be done with it.

1394
01:18:47,600 --> 01:18:48,439
Speaker 3: No, you don't need.

1395
01:18:48,360 --> 01:18:50,200
Speaker 2: Him, he can't die.

1396
01:18:50,360 --> 01:18:54,759
Speaker 3: I really felt that choice, which is hilarious because like Spider,

1397
01:18:54,920 --> 01:18:57,960
Speaker 3: I mean, to me, that's a classic, like it's almost

1398
01:18:58,000 --> 01:19:02,760
Speaker 3: become a trope that like young sidekick, human sidekick that

1399
01:19:02,960 --> 01:19:07,320
Speaker 3: kind of annoys people. But the funny thing is the

1400
01:19:07,520 --> 01:19:10,639
Speaker 3: moment that I found most powerful in this whole film,

1401
01:19:10,840 --> 01:19:14,160
Speaker 3: in its message about family, was when Spider turned up.

1402
01:19:14,560 --> 01:19:16,920
Speaker 3: He's at the end of the movie, he's on the ship.

1403
01:19:16,960 --> 01:19:19,960
Speaker 3: He's obviously binning hooots with Quorich and everything, But the

1404
01:19:20,000 --> 01:19:23,320
Speaker 3: moment he sees his you know, his Navy siblings, the

1405
01:19:23,320 --> 01:19:25,920
Speaker 3: people who he's been raised with. He wants to help them.

1406
01:19:25,960 --> 01:19:29,000
Speaker 3: He helps them, and not for a single second to

1407
01:19:29,080 --> 01:19:31,760
Speaker 3: any of them question why he was with them, judge him.

1408
01:19:31,880 --> 01:19:33,720
Speaker 3: They're just like, we're happy you're here. You're making the

1409
01:19:33,800 --> 01:19:36,559
Speaker 3: right choice right now, and that's all that matters. I

1410
01:19:36,600 --> 01:19:41,439
Speaker 3: thought that was such an empathetic, interesting, compassionate choice, and

1411
01:19:41,479 --> 01:19:46,759
Speaker 3: I was so deeply bummed to see that final choice,

1412
01:19:46,800 --> 01:19:50,080
Speaker 3: which sells out the character. But also, just like you said,

1413
01:19:50,080 --> 01:19:52,120
Speaker 3: it doesn't really make sense. Just upload a new one,

1414
01:19:52,720 --> 01:19:55,600
Speaker 3: make a new Super Super Navy or something, Which is.

1415
01:19:55,720 --> 01:20:01,160
Speaker 1: Why I feel like the I think the way the

1416
01:20:01,280 --> 01:20:04,040
Speaker 1: movie is going, or the series is going, is that

1417
01:20:04,320 --> 01:20:10,640
Speaker 1: eventually Spider is going to be you know, Originally, the

1418
01:20:10,680 --> 01:20:12,960
Speaker 1: reason they create these avatars is to, you know, to

1419
01:20:13,080 --> 01:20:16,840
Speaker 1: send humans into Navi society so that they could learn

1420
01:20:16,880 --> 01:20:20,599
Speaker 1: for them and hopefully find a diplomatic solution to the

1421
01:20:20,600 --> 01:20:22,680
Speaker 1: fact that the human race needs on obtaining them and

1422
01:20:22,760 --> 01:20:26,160
Speaker 1: various other resources from Pandora and the Navy, you know,

1423
01:20:26,920 --> 01:20:32,040
Speaker 1: are rightly and fairly and justly and brutally defending their homeland.

1424
01:20:32,080 --> 01:20:33,920
Speaker 1: So how do we come to an agreement on this?

1425
01:20:35,040 --> 01:20:37,280
Speaker 1: And then eventually Quartz is like, Okay, Jake, you're going

1426
01:20:37,360 --> 01:20:38,960
Speaker 1: to go in. You're going to learn from the enemy.

1427
01:20:38,960 --> 01:20:40,479
Speaker 1: You're going to learn their way so that we can

1428
01:20:40,640 --> 01:20:45,200
Speaker 1: more effectively destroy them from within. I think, if I'm right,

1429
01:20:46,760 --> 01:20:50,000
Speaker 1: I think that's what Spider is being set up to do. Spider,

1430
01:20:50,080 --> 01:20:52,920
Speaker 1: they are going to, like Quarch, eventually they're going to

1431
01:20:52,960 --> 01:20:56,080
Speaker 1: move him aside and the true villain.

1432
01:20:56,760 --> 01:20:58,200
Speaker 2: I hope this is what they're doing.

1433
01:20:58,240 --> 01:21:00,720
Speaker 1: This is actually what I hope that they're doing, and

1434
01:21:00,760 --> 01:21:07,680
Speaker 1: that eventually Spider becomes that dagger pointed directly at the

1435
01:21:07,720 --> 01:21:10,080
Speaker 1: heart of the novey. Who understands their ways, who is

1436
01:21:10,160 --> 01:21:13,760
Speaker 1: raised amongst them, let's really speak their language perfectly, who

1437
01:21:13,880 --> 01:21:16,000
Speaker 1: understands the way they think, the way their cultures work,

1438
01:21:16,040 --> 01:21:19,160
Speaker 1: the things they care about. And it's eventually in the

1439
01:21:19,200 --> 01:21:22,280
Speaker 1: further movie, in the you know, the later sequels, Spider,

1440
01:21:22,360 --> 01:21:26,360
Speaker 1: who is going to be the uber weapon of humanity

1441
01:21:26,400 --> 01:21:30,200
Speaker 1: that Jake never was, that Jake rejected. That's the only

1442
01:21:30,280 --> 01:21:31,800
Speaker 1: way this makes sense to me.

1443
01:21:32,040 --> 01:21:34,479
Speaker 3: I think that makes a lot of sense, especially there

1444
01:21:34,520 --> 01:21:39,480
Speaker 3: would be a lot of good, sad kind of irony

1445
01:21:39,800 --> 01:21:44,680
Speaker 3: in Spider in the fourth or fifth movie getting to

1446
01:21:44,760 --> 01:21:49,400
Speaker 3: become Novvey and using an avatar himself and being able

1447
01:21:49,439 --> 01:21:51,759
Speaker 3: to achieve the one thing that he'd always wanted to achieve,

1448
01:21:52,040 --> 01:21:55,639
Speaker 3: but in a space where he's using it to destroy

1449
01:21:55,720 --> 01:21:57,759
Speaker 3: them also makes a lot of sense on a narrative

1450
01:21:57,840 --> 01:21:59,800
Speaker 3: level if we think about the fact that him and

1451
01:21:59,840 --> 01:22:02,800
Speaker 3: k have this deep connection, and something this movie clearly

1452
01:22:02,840 --> 01:22:05,720
Speaker 3: sets up is it's almost implied that Kiri is sort

1453
01:22:05,760 --> 01:22:11,559
Speaker 3: of the daughter of Pandora. Kiri is partially made of Pandora.

1454
01:22:11,640 --> 01:22:12,280
Speaker 3: Kiri Knight.

1455
01:22:12,360 --> 01:22:15,600
Speaker 1: She has a connection with the planet and the planets

1456
01:22:15,680 --> 01:22:17,200
Speaker 1: like bio consciousness.

1457
01:22:17,800 --> 01:22:19,360
Speaker 2: That is, she's.

1458
01:22:19,240 --> 01:22:23,120
Speaker 1: Able to command, She's able to command the plant life

1459
01:22:23,120 --> 01:22:25,320
Speaker 1: and the and the and the animal.

1460
01:22:24,920 --> 01:22:29,200
Speaker 2: Life to attack, uh.

1461
01:22:28,600 --> 01:22:31,439
Speaker 1: Like the human naval forces in a way that is

1462
01:22:31,520 --> 01:22:33,920
Speaker 1: clearly superhuman super navy.

1463
01:22:34,120 --> 01:22:37,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, and super navy. I like that, Yeah, And I

1464
01:22:37,520 --> 01:22:39,320
Speaker 3: think it would make a lot of sense because then

1465
01:22:39,360 --> 01:22:43,040
Speaker 3: you can have the inevitable conflict between Spider and Kirie.

1466
01:22:43,200 --> 01:22:45,760
Speaker 3: But the real truth is that then Spider would likely

1467
01:22:45,840 --> 01:22:48,400
Speaker 3: come in the final moments, would make the right decision

1468
01:22:48,880 --> 01:22:51,240
Speaker 3: because Kurrie is the person that he was connected with.

1469
01:22:51,439 --> 01:22:53,760
Speaker 1: Now, if that is the case, if if they are

1470
01:22:53,800 --> 01:22:57,880
Speaker 1: setting up Spider to eventually be like the Uber villain

1471
01:22:57,960 --> 01:23:00,080
Speaker 1: of this series. I actually think, now this is a

1472
01:23:00,160 --> 01:23:02,040
Speaker 1: really interesting Now I'm really interested in this.

1473
01:23:02,200 --> 01:23:03,080
Speaker 3: Now I'm like, wait a.

1474
01:23:02,960 --> 01:23:07,800
Speaker 1: Minute, because I think the implications of him saving him

1475
01:23:08,120 --> 01:23:10,360
Speaker 1: beyond the plot, because again I think it doesn't matter

1476
01:23:10,360 --> 01:23:11,080
Speaker 1: for the plot.

1477
01:23:10,840 --> 01:23:14,200
Speaker 3: Because because I like your point the us upload, I.

1478
01:23:14,160 --> 01:23:18,080
Speaker 1: Think the implications are really interesting because like what happens

1479
01:23:18,120 --> 01:23:25,400
Speaker 1: when Spider tells them.

1480
01:23:22,320 --> 01:23:25,439
Speaker 3: I'm assuming he doesn't tell them that's right, and then

1481
01:23:25,520 --> 01:23:29,040
Speaker 3: that becomes the third movie is really about the conflict

1482
01:23:29,040 --> 01:23:32,280
Speaker 3: of them finding out and Korwich being an active player,

1483
01:23:32,520 --> 01:23:36,120
Speaker 3: or you have a kind of situation where Quorich is

1484
01:23:36,160 --> 01:23:39,400
Speaker 3: still injured and in the forest and Spider is secretly

1485
01:23:39,439 --> 01:23:41,720
Speaker 3: helping keeping him alive while they do this kind of

1486
01:23:41,760 --> 01:23:44,599
Speaker 3: greater battle against the sky people.

1487
01:23:45,320 --> 01:23:47,719
Speaker 1: I hope that that that that is the case, because

1488
01:23:48,680 --> 01:23:52,439
Speaker 1: this conversation reminds me a little bit of the the

1489
01:23:52,479 --> 01:23:58,080
Speaker 1: Iniatu movie The Revenant starring Leo, which which is a

1490
01:23:58,120 --> 01:24:01,559
Speaker 1: movie that I enjoyed for the spectacle, but also kind

1491
01:24:01,560 --> 01:24:05,040
Speaker 1: of disagreed with in the sense that you know, there's

1492
01:24:06,320 --> 01:24:10,479
Speaker 1: Leo's character. The movie didn't seem to understand that Leo's character,

1493
01:24:10,479 --> 01:24:13,439
Speaker 1: while a hero, in the course of the story is

1494
01:24:13,479 --> 01:24:19,439
Speaker 1: also like the vanguard of this European invasion that is

1495
01:24:19,560 --> 01:24:23,400
Speaker 1: like pressing its way into the heart of the indigenous lands.

1496
01:24:23,479 --> 01:24:26,360
Speaker 1: Like the fact that he is out there like looking

1497
01:24:26,400 --> 01:24:29,600
Speaker 1: for furs, and yes, he has a mohawk wife, But

1498
01:24:29,680 --> 01:24:32,759
Speaker 1: the fact that he is out there leading people deeper

1499
01:24:32,800 --> 01:24:36,000
Speaker 1: and deeper and deeper into this territory, albeitly in a

1500
01:24:36,040 --> 01:24:40,080
Speaker 1: peaceful way, is like forging the path for the conflict

1501
01:24:40,120 --> 01:24:44,200
Speaker 1: that is coming. And in that sense, like Jake and

1502
01:24:44,240 --> 01:24:49,000
Speaker 1: then Spider after him, make you grapple with the question

1503
01:24:49,240 --> 01:24:53,480
Speaker 1: of is there any way for a technologically advanced society

1504
01:24:53,560 --> 01:24:58,519
Speaker 1: to interact with with a less technologically advanced society in

1505
01:24:58,560 --> 01:25:01,519
Speaker 1: a way that is at all equitable? Like is there

1506
01:25:01,600 --> 01:25:06,880
Speaker 1: any way that those two groups can come to an

1507
01:25:06,960 --> 01:25:12,519
Speaker 1: understanding based on the values, knowledge, and material culture that

1508
01:25:12,560 --> 01:25:16,240
Speaker 1: they both have. And in that sense, like again, if

1509
01:25:16,240 --> 01:25:18,600
Speaker 1: Spider is the villain, that's interesting. If it's just like

1510
01:25:18,640 --> 01:25:20,599
Speaker 1: a weird thing to keep the plot going, then I

1511
01:25:20,600 --> 01:25:26,880
Speaker 1: think this is terrible, But I'd be fascinated to see

1512
01:25:26,880 --> 01:25:29,240
Speaker 1: what happens when Jake and his family find out that

1513
01:25:29,560 --> 01:25:32,880
Speaker 1: fucking Spider. Yeah, they have been nothing but great too,

1514
01:25:33,600 --> 01:25:34,920
Speaker 1: nothing but wonderful.

1515
01:25:35,040 --> 01:25:35,799
Speaker 3: Love understand.

1516
01:25:36,240 --> 01:25:39,040
Speaker 1: They fucking raise this kid. They let him hang out

1517
01:25:39,040 --> 01:25:42,040
Speaker 1: with them, pull on their tails. He hisses like a

1518
01:25:42,160 --> 01:25:46,120
Speaker 1: novvey when he's threatened. When they find out that he

1519
01:25:46,439 --> 01:25:51,920
Speaker 1: saved the life of their greatest tormentor, I wonder what

1520
01:25:51,960 --> 01:25:53,240
Speaker 1: their reaction will be, I.

1521
01:25:53,240 --> 01:25:55,639
Speaker 3: Really do, And we will get to find that out.

1522
01:25:55,680 --> 01:26:00,519
Speaker 3: Because Avata three yet untitled that we can probably guess

1523
01:26:00,560 --> 01:26:02,439
Speaker 3: it might have something to do with you know, fire

1524
01:26:02,680 --> 01:26:09,479
Speaker 3: or win this point fire, Yeah, you know exactly. You

1525
01:26:09,520 --> 01:26:15,560
Speaker 3: know those are all great, but we Avatar three was

1526
01:26:15,600 --> 01:26:19,479
Speaker 3: actually filmed alongside this. So whatever happens, however this Avatar

1527
01:26:20,800 --> 01:26:24,400
Speaker 3: performs in this post COVID landscape, Avatar three will come out,

1528
01:26:24,439 --> 01:26:26,960
Speaker 3: so we will find that the question is whether it

1529
01:26:27,000 --> 01:26:30,720
Speaker 3: will perform well enough for Avatar four and five to

1530
01:26:30,880 --> 01:26:34,000
Speaker 3: be made. So whatever happens, we'll find out what happens

1531
01:26:34,000 --> 01:26:36,719
Speaker 3: in the third movie. And James Cameron, as he always

1532
01:26:36,800 --> 01:26:40,080
Speaker 3: is in his fox jacket, had a very cool, chill

1533
01:26:40,880 --> 01:26:44,080
Speaker 3: viewpoint on it on the special I watched where he

1534
01:26:44,120 --> 01:26:46,799
Speaker 3: was kind of like, audiences have changed, things that people

1535
01:26:46,840 --> 01:26:48,960
Speaker 3: like have changed. Let's just see how it goes. I

1536
01:26:48,960 --> 01:26:50,840
Speaker 3: hope people connect with it, and if they don't, that's

1537
01:26:50,840 --> 01:26:53,120
Speaker 3: also okay, and he's.

1538
01:26:53,080 --> 01:26:54,519
Speaker 2: Like, this guy is so fucking rich.

1539
01:26:54,920 --> 01:26:59,479
Speaker 1: He's created, he has created, like with Titanic and Avatar.

1540
01:26:59,720 --> 01:27:05,439
Speaker 1: He is twice directed, the biggest ever in.

1541
01:27:05,520 --> 01:27:08,680
Speaker 3: Terminated Too, was like the most expensive movie ever made

1542
01:27:08,720 --> 01:27:10,759
Speaker 3: when it came out. And I will just say Spider

1543
01:27:10,840 --> 01:27:13,240
Speaker 3: does fit into in my opinion, he is the worst

1544
01:27:13,360 --> 01:27:17,360
Speaker 3: version of but look Aliens, now, James Cameron put a

1545
01:27:17,400 --> 01:27:18,759
Speaker 3: kid in there and they'll.

1546
01:27:18,600 --> 01:27:21,839
Speaker 2: Ragtag kid who needs to see also had made.

1547
01:27:23,320 --> 01:27:26,240
Speaker 3: He's the best version of that character in my book,

1548
01:27:27,040 --> 01:27:30,200
Speaker 3: John Connor in Terminator Too. If you're making a James

1549
01:27:30,200 --> 01:27:33,679
Speaker 3: Cameron sequel, you've got to have a small child. Sadly, Spider,

1550
01:27:33,720 --> 01:27:35,920
Speaker 3: he's low on the ranking for me of the James

1551
01:27:35,920 --> 01:27:40,559
Speaker 3: Cameron small child sequel trope. But yeah, I'll be very interested.

1552
01:27:40,600 --> 01:27:42,880
Speaker 3: I really like that. It's so funny how I never

1553
01:27:42,920 --> 01:27:45,240
Speaker 3: really thought I never really been like getting deep into

1554
01:27:45,280 --> 01:27:46,439
Speaker 3: like Avatar theories.

1555
01:27:46,520 --> 01:27:46,680
Speaker 1: You know.

1556
01:27:46,760 --> 01:27:48,679
Speaker 3: My theory is very much in the in the comic

1557
01:27:48,680 --> 01:27:51,960
Speaker 3: book movie and action movie kind of franchise horror space.

1558
01:27:52,320 --> 01:27:56,160
Speaker 3: But I'm very invested in your Avatar theory. I think

1559
01:27:56,560 --> 01:27:58,839
Speaker 3: if that's the way they're leading, that could go somewhere

1560
01:27:58,840 --> 01:27:59,720
Speaker 3: pretty interesting.

1561
01:28:00,040 --> 01:28:03,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that that's when you know this story

1562
01:28:03,800 --> 01:28:06,200
Speaker 1: has been Again, it's pretty basic. It's all about the spectacle,

1563
01:28:06,280 --> 01:28:08,040
Speaker 1: like if you're looking like, oh my god, well, I'd

1564
01:28:08,040 --> 01:28:10,400
Speaker 1: be spoiled blusb to warn about it. But if they

1565
01:28:10,439 --> 01:28:12,799
Speaker 1: go in that direction, if they go in that direction,

1566
01:28:12,960 --> 01:28:16,880
Speaker 1: I actually think, you know, the questions about like how again,

1567
01:28:17,000 --> 01:28:20,000
Speaker 1: how you how I technologically advanced culture can interact with

1568
01:28:20,040 --> 01:28:24,559
Speaker 1: a with a more you know, with a more naturalistic culture,

1569
01:28:24,680 --> 01:28:27,840
Speaker 1: I think is a really interesting one. And if they

1570
01:28:28,120 --> 01:28:32,919
Speaker 1: explore that via Spider, who I think is terrible and maybe.

1571
01:28:32,680 --> 01:28:35,280
Speaker 2: That's pretty interesting. I'll be interesting to see what happens.

1572
01:28:37,840 --> 01:28:38,599
Speaker 2: A big thank you.

1573
01:28:38,560 --> 01:28:40,920
Speaker 1: To Rosie Knight for joining us on X ray Vision.

1574
01:28:41,240 --> 01:28:43,960
Speaker 1: Rosie plug stuff plug Plug Plug plug Plug.

1575
01:28:44,320 --> 01:28:44,640
Speaker 2: It's me.

1576
01:28:44,920 --> 01:28:50,760
Speaker 3: Uh. You can read my writing at noticed iegen Den

1577
01:28:50,760 --> 01:28:53,960
Speaker 3: of Geek, all those cool places Polygon. We just had

1578
01:28:53,960 --> 01:28:56,240
Speaker 3: our big comic books Best comic books of the Year.

1579
01:28:56,280 --> 01:28:57,640
Speaker 3: I w was shouting out some of my faves. That

1580
01:28:57,760 --> 01:29:01,679
Speaker 3: Wash Day Diaries such a great comic. Also, my aunt

1581
01:29:01,720 --> 01:29:03,639
Speaker 3: is the Monster Ths too, of my favorite this year.

1582
01:29:04,600 --> 01:29:07,000
Speaker 3: You can find me on lab box, at Instagram at

1583
01:29:07,080 --> 01:29:08,280
Speaker 3: Rosy Marx and.

1584
01:29:08,360 --> 01:29:14,599
Speaker 1: Here catch the next episode in December twenty third. That's

1585
01:29:14,640 --> 01:29:17,160
Speaker 1: gonna be our live panel taped at La Comic Con

1586
01:29:17,240 --> 01:29:19,400
Speaker 1: from a few weeks ago. We will be taking the

1587
01:29:19,479 --> 01:29:21,599
Speaker 1: last week of December in the first week of January

1588
01:29:21,680 --> 01:29:23,760
Speaker 1: off and we hope that you're able to do the same.

1589
01:29:24,320 --> 01:29:26,719
Speaker 1: Our first episode of twenty twenty three will be Wednesday,

1590
01:29:26,880 --> 01:29:30,760
Speaker 1: January eleventh, and then, folks, are you sitting down, We're

1591
01:29:30,800 --> 01:29:34,600
Speaker 1: gonna be doing two episodes a week starting then for

1592
01:29:34,640 --> 01:29:36,519
Speaker 1: the rest of time, we're just gonna be doing them

1593
01:29:36,560 --> 01:29:38,479
Speaker 1: two a week, So get ready for more X ray

1594
01:29:38,560 --> 01:29:41,960
Speaker 1: Vision than your ears can possibly hold. This means episodes

1595
01:29:41,960 --> 01:29:47,120
Speaker 1: of Extra Vision every Wednesday and Friday starting January eleventh,

1596
01:29:47,479 --> 01:29:51,280
Speaker 1: twenty twenty three. Don't forget Subscribe to the show on YouTube,

1597
01:29:51,280 --> 01:29:54,599
Speaker 1: follow at xer vpod on Twitter and hopefully somewhere else

1598
01:29:54,640 --> 01:29:57,519
Speaker 1: soon and check out the discord where you can hang

1599
01:29:57,600 --> 01:30:00,519
Speaker 1: out with lots of other amazing fans of X ray

1600
01:30:00,600 --> 01:30:05,519
Speaker 1: Vision plus Rosie and I five star ratings, five star reviews.

1601
01:30:05,600 --> 01:30:07,680
Speaker 1: We love them. We gotta have them, we need them.

1602
01:30:07,720 --> 01:30:11,120
Speaker 1: It's like the whale brain juice. We need them to

1603
01:30:11,200 --> 01:30:16,040
Speaker 1: stop our aging. Here's one from Egypt Brown Essential Listening.

1604
01:30:16,120 --> 01:30:19,040
Speaker 1: Rosie and Jason have quickly become one of my favorite podcasts.

1605
01:30:19,080 --> 01:30:21,519
Speaker 1: The pair not just knowledgeable, but funny as heck too.

1606
01:30:21,680 --> 01:30:25,679
Speaker 4: Thank you, Thank you, We Travis, We try our best.

1607
01:30:26,240 --> 01:30:28,080
Speaker 1: X ray Vision is a Crooked Media production. The show

1608
01:30:28,120 --> 01:30:29,840
Speaker 1: is produced by Chris Lord and Soul Rubin. The show

1609
01:30:29,920 --> 01:30:32,880
Speaker 1: is executive produced by myself and Sandy's Rhard Are editing

1610
01:30:32,880 --> 01:30:36,640
Speaker 1: and sound design Who's by Vascillis Patopoulos, Dilon Villanueva and

1611
01:30:36,680 --> 01:30:39,519
Speaker 1: Matt De Group provide video production support. Alex Reller for

1612
01:30:39,680 --> 01:30:42,719
Speaker 1: Handle Social Media. Thank you Brian Vasquez for O theme music.

1613
01:30:43,200 --> 01:30:44,320
Speaker 1: See you next time, folks,