1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:14,440 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace in the last hour of 2 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:20,800 Speaker 1: a blow to the search for teen girl Aaomi Arian. 3 00:00:22,079 --> 00:00:24,200 Speaker 1: Take a listen to this. The search for a Nevada 4 00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:27,800 Speaker 1: teenager stocked and abducted from a Walmart parking lot has 5 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:31,680 Speaker 1: ended with the discovery of her body. Police saying detectives 6 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:34,279 Speaker 1: acting on a tip found the remains of eighteen year 7 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:38,280 Speaker 1: old Naomi Arion buried in a remote area of Churchill County. 8 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:41,840 Speaker 1: The teenager was abducted in her own car while waiting 9 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:44,120 Speaker 1: for a shuttle bus on her way to work in Reno. 10 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:47,479 Speaker 1: A forty one year old ex con was charged today 11 00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:51,960 Speaker 1: with first degree kidnapping. Troy Driver has a violent criminal record, 12 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:55,240 Speaker 1: including a sentence of fifteen years in prison for his 13 00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:58,880 Speaker 1: role in a nineteen ninety seven murder in northern California. 14 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:02,840 Speaker 1: You were just our friends at Katla five, breaking the 15 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:14,080 Speaker 1: heartrending news this after Naomi's mother joined us begging, begging 16 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:20,000 Speaker 1: for help in finding her girl. Listen, We're also looking 17 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:25,760 Speaker 1: for her purse. It's a black back in any of 18 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:29,200 Speaker 1: her clothing. She was wearing a blue Panasonic T shirt 19 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:34,560 Speaker 1: and she was wearing a gray cardigan, and I think 20 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:38,840 Speaker 1: she was wearing gray sweatpants and blue ug boots. They 21 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:42,399 Speaker 1: were either gray black or brown gray black brown. I 22 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 1: think they were like a faded black. Yes, they're like 23 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:50,680 Speaker 1: they're knockoff ugs. So they're not named brands. Yes. So 24 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:54,559 Speaker 1: if you find any of that just laying out, please call. 25 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 1: It could be vital to saving her life, and that's 26 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:03,760 Speaker 1: our number one goal right now. Please save my daughter 27 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:09,680 Speaker 1: and bringing her home. Please anything, any little tiny bit 28 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:15,559 Speaker 1: of information, please call her mother Diana breaking down in tears. 29 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 1: The more we talked about the search for her daughter, 30 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 1: the more she broke down. I wonder if verbalizing in 31 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:28,960 Speaker 1: that way what was happening made it too real for her. 32 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:32,560 Speaker 1: In the last hours, we learned the body of Team 33 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:38,840 Speaker 1: Girl Naomi Erian has been found. We believe in a 34 00:02:38,919 --> 00:02:42,880 Speaker 1: shallow grave. Joining me an all star panel to make 35 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:46,480 Speaker 1: sense of what we know right now. Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor, 36 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:49,680 Speaker 1: author of Red Flags on Amazon. She's the host of 37 00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:52,960 Speaker 1: Today with Doctor Wendy on KCBQ. You can find her 38 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:56,920 Speaker 1: at Wendy Patrick PhD dot com. Doctor Debbie Joffe ellis 39 00:02:56,919 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 1: psychologists Professor, Columbia University in New York, author of Rational 40 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:07,480 Speaker 1: Emotive Behavior, You can find her at Debbie Joffeelis dot com. 41 00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:11,240 Speaker 1: Renowned medical examiner joining us from the state of Florida. 42 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:17,440 Speaker 1: Doctor Tim Gallagher, Lecturer, University Florida Medical School, Forensic Medicine 43 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:24,440 Speaker 1: founder and host International Forensic Medicine Death Investigation Conference. Karen Smith, 44 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:30,040 Speaker 1: forensic expert, lecturer, University Florida, host of a hit series 45 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 1: Shattered Souls podcast. But first to Alexis tres Chuck, crime 46 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:41,120 Speaker 1: online dot com investigative reporter joining us Alexis, take a 47 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:47,200 Speaker 1: listen to our friend, Brianna Connor, ABC thirteen. It was 48 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:50,480 Speaker 1: in fact a tip from a neighbor that helped investigators 49 00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:54,080 Speaker 1: find driver and the truck connected to the case. Another 50 00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:58,040 Speaker 1: tip eventually led to Naomi's body. Investigators have not said 51 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:02,080 Speaker 1: whether they believe drivers or ontable Friendiomi's death. He's due 52 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 1: back in court on April fifth. Alexis Terrestchuck, tell me 53 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:11,520 Speaker 1: everything you know about the location of Naomi's body. Teen 54 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:17,320 Speaker 1: girl Naomi Erian remains have just been found in a 55 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:20,880 Speaker 1: remote rural area, Alexis, what do we know? Somebody called 56 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:23,600 Speaker 1: a tip into the police. We don't know who it is, 57 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:27,520 Speaker 1: how they knew this, because it was it's a very 58 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:31,680 Speaker 1: specific tip of where a bodience. They told the police 59 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:34,480 Speaker 1: there was a shallow grave that I don't know if 60 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:36,360 Speaker 1: they said there's a body or a grave, but they 61 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:39,919 Speaker 1: pointed the police in the exact right location. This is 62 00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:43,279 Speaker 1: a rural area and what they found there is a 63 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:48,800 Speaker 1: shallow grave. I understand that it is Churchill County. Is 64 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:54,200 Speaker 1: in Winston Churchill, Churchill County. Now I'm trying to figure out, 65 00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 1: Wendy Patrick, what do we know or Alexis terrestrict anyone 66 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 1: on the panel. It is familiar with that area Churchill County. 67 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:13,640 Speaker 1: From Fernley, Nevada, where she went missing, to Churchill County, Nevada, 68 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 1: it's about an hour and fifteen minutes. Okay, So here 69 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:23,279 Speaker 1: we go. Pick it up there, Alexis, you were in 70 00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:26,000 Speaker 1: the middle of telling me about where she was found. 71 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:29,920 Speaker 1: Go ahead. So she was found in Churchill County, which 72 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:33,480 Speaker 1: is almost sixty miles away from where she went missing. 73 00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 1: She was found Churchill County. She went missing in Fernley, Nevada, 74 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:38,919 Speaker 1: and it was found in Churchill County. This is a 75 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:41,800 Speaker 1: rural county. Not even three thousand people lived there. So 76 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:46,279 Speaker 1: somebody called in a tip about this and led the 77 00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:50,320 Speaker 1: police to her grave, not to her in the house, 78 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 1: her alive, unfortunately, to a grave what they're calling a 79 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:57,600 Speaker 1: shallow grave. You know that conjures up all sorts of images. 80 00:05:57,680 --> 00:06:01,520 Speaker 1: Karen L. Smith is joining me every one at barebones 81 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:05,800 Speaker 1: Forensic dot com. Karen a forensic expert. Karen, when I 82 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:10,040 Speaker 1: hear shallow grave, I don't want to hear that in 83 00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:15,880 Speaker 1: this same sentence with a missing team girl. A shallow 84 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:20,040 Speaker 1: grave in my experience, that's two or three feet deep. Max, Yeah, 85 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:22,160 Speaker 1: what does it mean to you? That's exactly right, one 86 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:25,000 Speaker 1: foot to three feet Nancy. You know that tells me 87 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:30,680 Speaker 1: so much about this crime. That implements were purchased beforehand, 88 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:34,839 Speaker 1: there was premeditation, they had shovels. Okay, you look, you 89 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:37,480 Speaker 1: know you're the forensic expert. You've got explained to everybody. 90 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:41,719 Speaker 1: Why you're saying that. I get you explain why? Well, 91 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:45,479 Speaker 1: you know you have one or more perpetrators at this 92 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:49,640 Speaker 1: point we don't know. But if you have a shallow grave, 93 00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:51,400 Speaker 1: they're not going to get down on their knees and 94 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:53,719 Speaker 1: dig it with their hands. They have implements with them, 95 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:56,280 Speaker 1: whether it's a shovel or a rake or a pickaxe 96 00:06:56,360 --> 00:06:59,840 Speaker 1: or whatever it is they have that with them, which 97 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 1: tells me it's almost like a murder kit. This was 98 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:04,720 Speaker 1: pre planned, This was premeditated. They have to dig that 99 00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 1: grave with something and then you put a body in it, 100 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:12,240 Speaker 1: So that tells me everything about premeditation. Nancy Karen Smith, 101 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:17,239 Speaker 1: that is an excellent point to dig even a shallow grave. 102 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:22,960 Speaker 1: An implement is needed. However, in my mind, Wendy Patrick, 103 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 1: this team girl could have been murdered and then the 104 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:31,440 Speaker 1: get the implement. First thing, they need to go to 105 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 1: all the walmarts, all the lows home depots feeding seeds. 106 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:40,720 Speaker 1: It's a rural area, there could be one nearby. That's 107 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:44,120 Speaker 1: an obvious choice to find out if anyone came in 108 00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:47,520 Speaker 1: and bought a shovel or anything they could use to 109 00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:51,640 Speaker 1: dig this hole. Right, I mean this guy in I'd 110 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:53,440 Speaker 1: be driving around in his car with a shovel in 111 00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:56,560 Speaker 1: the bag. That's exactly right. And thankfully that's something you 112 00:07:56,640 --> 00:07:58,800 Speaker 1: and I know those have been using for years, is 113 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 1: looking at surveillance video, especially in a rural area where 114 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:04,960 Speaker 1: you don't have a hundred stores to look at, you 115 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:07,880 Speaker 1: have less, and especially when you haven't. I love the 116 00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:11,200 Speaker 1: murder kit that's a great sound bite for what you 117 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:14,040 Speaker 1: would need, sadly to dig this kind of a grape. 118 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:17,200 Speaker 1: So that's right. And one of the benefits of doing 119 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:21,000 Speaker 1: that nowadays is when I started practicing law, the graininess 120 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:23,600 Speaker 1: of the photos almost made it indistinguishable to try to 121 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:26,560 Speaker 1: figure out who you can recognize what somebody is buying. 122 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:29,640 Speaker 1: But nowadays we do have ways of really seeing what 123 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:31,640 Speaker 1: we need to see to try to figure out who 124 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:34,120 Speaker 1: might have bought this kit. And I have to say 125 00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:37,760 Speaker 1: this case really sort of makes us look at something 126 00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:39,719 Speaker 1: that you would think would be as safe as a 127 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:43,360 Speaker 1: Walmart parking lot very differently. What do we know about 128 00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:46,720 Speaker 1: the location, What if anything, can we learn about the 129 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:50,600 Speaker 1: murder itself too? Alexa's terrestic joining us from crime online 130 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:53,200 Speaker 1: dot com. Do we have a cod cause of death? 131 00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:55,240 Speaker 1: Yet we do not. We do not have a cause 132 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:57,520 Speaker 1: of death. All we know is there was a Caucasian 133 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:01,120 Speaker 1: female body found and then it was identified, So we 134 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:05,080 Speaker 1: don't even know like if the body was all together, 135 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:08,560 Speaker 1: if the body was you know, cut up. We don't 136 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:11,160 Speaker 1: know anything about the condition, how it was decomposed, whether 137 00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:14,320 Speaker 1: the body and she went missing. March twelve, that is 138 00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:17,280 Speaker 1: weeks ago and so she her body could have been 139 00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:20,120 Speaker 1: out there in the shallow grave this entire time. It's 140 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:22,319 Speaker 1: cold as the winter. There could have you know, the 141 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:37,480 Speaker 1: elements could have really caused a lot of decomposition crime 142 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:46,040 Speaker 1: stories with Nancy Grace to doctor Tim Gallagher, medical examiner 143 00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:48,400 Speaker 1: joining us in the state of Florida. Doctor Gallagher, again, 144 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:51,560 Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. I'm trying to determine 145 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:55,719 Speaker 1: ay how they identified her and they if we can 146 00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:57,880 Speaker 1: figure out a cause of death after this time lapse, 147 00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 1: Doctor Gallagher, there are many ways to identify a dead person. 148 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:05,439 Speaker 1: You don't have to have DNA. As a matter of fact, 149 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:13,120 Speaker 1: when Gabby's body was found, she was wearing a T 150 00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 1: shirt that her parent, Gabby Potato, that her parents immediately 151 00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:24,040 Speaker 1: knew was hers. And we all have certain identifying things 152 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:27,600 Speaker 1: that we wear. It could be as simple as that. 153 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:31,880 Speaker 1: What are other ways other than DNA. Well, that's a 154 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:35,040 Speaker 1: good way of a supporting piece of evidence that would 155 00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:38,960 Speaker 1: lend to somebody being identified. But in order to identify 156 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:43,720 Speaker 1: somebody scientifically, it has to be something that's part of 157 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:45,840 Speaker 1: their body, and things that are part of their body 158 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:50,280 Speaker 1: could be a unique tattoo as simple as that, or 159 00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:54,480 Speaker 1: it could be a dental work that they had done 160 00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:58,240 Speaker 1: that is shown up on the post mortem X rays. 161 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:01,720 Speaker 1: There are also unique features in the bones of the 162 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:05,320 Speaker 1: face that if we take an X ray of the 163 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:08,360 Speaker 1: remains and then we were able to get an X 164 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 1: ray of a person who is alive, we can match 165 00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:16,360 Speaker 1: the bones of the face. You know too, You mean 166 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:19,000 Speaker 1: if she had had an X ray in life, right, 167 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:20,520 Speaker 1: if she had an X ray in life and we 168 00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:23,960 Speaker 1: were able to acquire that X ray and then compare 169 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:25,480 Speaker 1: it to the X ray that we can before. If 170 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:28,760 Speaker 1: somebody had a broken leg in life and you find 171 00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:31,120 Speaker 1: out this person has a broken leg, This girl, to 172 00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:35,120 Speaker 1: my knowledge, did not have any tattoos or piercings other 173 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:39,120 Speaker 1: than in her ears, so that wouldn't help. But you 174 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:42,679 Speaker 1: know what about the fact that to doctor Tim Gallagher, 175 00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:48,560 Speaker 1: for years, in decades, the Red Cross and others have 176 00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:55,080 Speaker 1: relied on field tests, immediate field test to determine identity. 177 00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:59,400 Speaker 1: What is that The immediate field test to identify identity 178 00:11:59,679 --> 00:12:02,960 Speaker 1: off and relies on what we've been talking about before. 179 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:07,680 Speaker 1: Pre injuries that could be the repair of an injury. 180 00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:10,600 Speaker 1: Sometimes they will put a metal plate in the leg 181 00:12:10,679 --> 00:12:13,080 Speaker 1: to fix it, and that metal plate will have a 182 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:16,439 Speaker 1: serial number on it. We could remove the plate, find 183 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:19,160 Speaker 1: the serial number, look that serial number up and it'll 184 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:21,920 Speaker 1: tell us the doctor, the patient, and when it was 185 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:24,880 Speaker 1: placed inside that leg, and then we could identify the 186 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:30,280 Speaker 1: person that way. The field identification could be something as 187 00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:33,480 Speaker 1: simple as stature. You know, is this a male, is 188 00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:35,760 Speaker 1: it a female? Is it an old person? Is it 189 00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:39,280 Speaker 1: a younger person? You know, the Red Crust does do 190 00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:45,280 Speaker 1: excellent work, but there they go by an anatomical type 191 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:50,760 Speaker 1: of identification process, where the scientific community now embraces a 192 00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:57,679 Speaker 1: molecular or radiologic type of modality, you know, just to 193 00:12:57,720 --> 00:13:03,760 Speaker 1: identify somebody. What do you mean the two modalities to identify? 194 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:08,840 Speaker 1: You said, radiologic in one other, right, So a DNA 195 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:14,640 Speaker 1: type of identiclecular radiologic is an X rays. That where 196 00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:20,640 Speaker 1: you're saying DNA, I hear you. So you got X rays, 197 00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:25,640 Speaker 1: you got DNA, you have on tattoos, you have clothing, 198 00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:30,680 Speaker 1: you have teeth work, whether somebody had a cavity in 199 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:34,160 Speaker 1: the fifth grade, whether they were bracest orthodontia, all of 200 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:38,079 Speaker 1: that can help identify someone if you don't have DNA already. 201 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:40,520 Speaker 1: We know for a fact, I don't know how her 202 00:13:40,559 --> 00:13:46,280 Speaker 1: body was identified, but Naomi Erian, a teen girl missing 203 00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:51,000 Speaker 1: out a furnly, Nevada, her mother begged for help. Her 204 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:54,760 Speaker 1: remains have been found at what has been described as 205 00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:59,800 Speaker 1: a quote grave site. As Karen L. Smith, forensic expert, 206 00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:03,720 Speaker 1: has pointed out accurately, some tool would have to have 207 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:07,600 Speaker 1: been used to dig a hole to put this young 208 00:14:07,679 --> 00:14:12,240 Speaker 1: girl in. Can't do it with your hands now. I 209 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:14,280 Speaker 1: want to find out more about the fact that it 210 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:19,160 Speaker 1: is a remote area. Karen L. Smith, There's so much 211 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:23,400 Speaker 1: forensic evidence that can be learned gleaned from the site. 212 00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:27,320 Speaker 1: For instance, I believe he had to have lived either 213 00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:31,400 Speaker 1: in the Friendly area or the Churchill County area. I mean, 214 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:34,120 Speaker 1: why would he go to that location? I mean, think 215 00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:38,840 Speaker 1: about Scott Peterson. He lived in the Modesto area, but 216 00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:42,760 Speaker 1: he disposed of Lacy's body at a spot familiar to 217 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:47,160 Speaker 1: him San Francisco Bay where he routinely went fishing. What 218 00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:49,520 Speaker 1: do you make of it and what if anything forensically 219 00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:52,800 Speaker 1: can't we learn from the grave site? I agree, you know, 220 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:56,120 Speaker 1: you deal with these perpetrators and most often they will 221 00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:59,560 Speaker 1: stay in an area that is familiar to them. However, 222 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:04,760 Speaker 1: are away that might extend as far as the grave site, Nancy, 223 00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:08,680 Speaker 1: this is a desert location. You're dealing with either loose 224 00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:13,680 Speaker 1: dirt or hard compact dirt and clay. You've got shoeprints, 225 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:18,680 Speaker 1: possible tire tracks. You know. Sometimes these perps will dispose 226 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:21,400 Speaker 1: of something like maybe a cigarette butt or a soda 227 00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:24,320 Speaker 1: can in the grave site. I found receipts in grave 228 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:26,920 Speaker 1: sites that were disposed of with the body, and all 229 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:29,480 Speaker 1: of those clues can lead back to the person who 230 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:31,920 Speaker 1: did it. So they're going to have to sift through 231 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:34,400 Speaker 1: every single speck of that grave site, which I'm sure 232 00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:37,720 Speaker 1: they're doing. They use fine sifters, and they go scoop 233 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:42,000 Speaker 1: scoop by stoop, bucketful by boocketful, looking for bullet shell casing, 234 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:47,800 Speaker 1: looking for small bones, looking for clothing items and jewelry 235 00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:51,000 Speaker 1: and any other evidence that might have been disposed of 236 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:54,320 Speaker 1: in that grave site. It's a long walk, Nancy, but 237 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:56,240 Speaker 1: they're going to get the job done. Thy to Alexis 238 00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:58,720 Speaker 1: Terreste joining us from crime online dot Com. I'm still 239 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:03,440 Speaker 1: intrigued about who called in the tip. Take a listen 240 00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:07,360 Speaker 1: now to our friend Brian Inton. What we've learned from 241 00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:11,120 Speaker 1: the Churchill County Sheriff's office is that yesterday they followed 242 00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:13,840 Speaker 1: up on what they called an investigative tip that took 243 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:16,280 Speaker 1: them out to a very very rural part of the county. 244 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:19,800 Speaker 1: They found a grave site, they found a body. It 245 00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:22,280 Speaker 1: was taken to the medical Examiner's office, and today they 246 00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:26,080 Speaker 1: were able to officially identify the body as Naomi's. You 247 00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:28,360 Speaker 1: remember we've been covering the story all week. She is 248 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:31,840 Speaker 1: an eighteen year old woman. She is the daughter of 249 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:35,080 Speaker 1: a US diplomat. She lived all over the world and 250 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:38,640 Speaker 1: recently moved here to Nevada to live with her older 251 00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:40,760 Speaker 1: brother because she wanted a more normal life she was 252 00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:43,760 Speaker 1: used to living on these American diplomatic compounds. She wanted 253 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:47,480 Speaker 1: to go to college, she wanted to buy a car, 254 00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:49,560 Speaker 1: she wanted to have a boyfriend. And she was in 255 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:53,400 Speaker 1: the Walmart parking lot back on March twelfth when she 256 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:56,760 Speaker 1: was kidnapped. This young girl had been very, very sheltered. 257 00:16:56,760 --> 00:16:59,640 Speaker 1: According to what her mother, or Diana, told us, they 258 00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:03,520 Speaker 1: had lived all over the world, but always within a 259 00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:09,600 Speaker 1: very tightly knit diplomatic community, going to certain schools, to 260 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:13,440 Speaker 1: American schools. She finally wanted to live with her brother 261 00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:17,320 Speaker 1: in America and be like quote every other American team. 262 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:22,639 Speaker 1: Take a listen now as we analyze what happened the 263 00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:28,280 Speaker 1: morning she goes missing. Take a listen to Ashley Graham's kolo. 264 00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:32,400 Speaker 1: Naomi Erion went missing around five in the morning on 265 00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:36,760 Speaker 1: March twelfth from the Walmart parking lot. Infernly, her brother 266 00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:40,560 Speaker 1: didn't realize she was gone until the next day, on 267 00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:43,159 Speaker 1: Sunday night. I wanted to talk to her, so I 268 00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:45,359 Speaker 1: was waiting for her to come home from work, and 269 00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:48,879 Speaker 1: she never came. Here's a photo of Naomi in June 270 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:52,000 Speaker 1: when she graduated from high school. She now lives with 271 00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:54,760 Speaker 1: her brother and she was last seen on her way 272 00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:57,080 Speaker 1: to work, and they confirmed that she had missed her 273 00:17:57,080 --> 00:18:02,440 Speaker 1: ships set bill Saturday and Sunday, which was really unusual. 274 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:07,399 Speaker 1: My daughter was extremely reliable. Her brother, Casey Valley, was 275 00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:10,520 Speaker 1: worried when she didn't come home. He traced her steps 276 00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:13,560 Speaker 1: and went to the bus stop at the Walmart where 277 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:16,879 Speaker 1: Naomi usually hitched a ride to work in the Reno 278 00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:22,120 Speaker 1: Sparks area. Guys, this is a girl that has just 279 00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:30,359 Speaker 1: graduated from high school. Graduated from high school. She was 280 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:37,280 Speaker 1: working a job at a Panasonic a Panasonic center where 281 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:40,320 Speaker 1: she actually would put on what looks like a hazmat 282 00:18:40,359 --> 00:18:47,560 Speaker 1: suit and put together build batteries for Panasonic. She wanted 283 00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:53,520 Speaker 1: the I guess stereotypical life of an American teen, and 284 00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:57,880 Speaker 1: this is what happened. At five o'clock in the morning, 285 00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:01,640 Speaker 1: she has managed to get herself to a Walmart parking lot, 286 00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:05,080 Speaker 1: waiting on a shuttle bus to go to Panasonic. She's 287 00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:09,639 Speaker 1: sitting in her car, it's dark outside, She's playing on 288 00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:16,280 Speaker 1: Snapchat or Facebook or Insta and doesn't notice a man 289 00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:21,720 Speaker 1: stalking her. No one would have known had it not 290 00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:27,719 Speaker 1: been for the Walmart parking lot surveillance video. Listen to 291 00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:31,359 Speaker 1: our forensic kolo. Walmart had surveillance video and shared it 292 00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:35,200 Speaker 1: with Casey. Here's a snapshot of that video showing the suspect. 293 00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:39,679 Speaker 1: Casey says, the video shows this man getting into Naomi's 294 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:42,600 Speaker 1: car and driving off with her in the passenger seat. 295 00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:50,280 Speaker 1: Once we found the footage, which appears to be nondescript 296 00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:55,040 Speaker 1: mail an average high average build, completely covered up with 297 00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:57,960 Speaker 1: a mask in the hood, and Casey says, no one 298 00:19:58,040 --> 00:20:05,359 Speaker 1: recognizes the man in the video. Some monster takes them. 299 00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:08,840 Speaker 1: You don't know what's happened. You don't know where they 300 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:13,000 Speaker 1: are and nobody had been noticed she was missing. Naomi's 301 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:16,480 Speaker 1: mom feels helpless. She lives in South Africa and can 302 00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:19,399 Speaker 1: only sit on the sidelines waiting for her son to 303 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:23,119 Speaker 1: call with any information. Just he tells me everything that 304 00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:26,160 Speaker 1: he knows as soon as he knows it. That Walmart surveillance. 305 00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:31,280 Speaker 1: The video was very, very chilling to Alexis Terres Chuck, 306 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:34,560 Speaker 1: please describe it. So it's a Blackmart video. You can 307 00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:38,120 Speaker 1: see her, I'm sorry, you can see him, and he's 308 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:41,439 Speaker 1: kind of pacing around the Walmart parking lot. It's five 309 00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:43,840 Speaker 1: thirty in the morning, remember that, So it's not light yet. 310 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:45,600 Speaker 1: There are not a lot of people there. Actually, I'm 311 00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:49,520 Speaker 1: glad you brought that up, Alexis, because the Walmart video 312 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:55,000 Speaker 1: shows that it's dark outside. And what almost broke my 313 00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:58,400 Speaker 1: heart as we learned that this little girl just graduated 314 00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:01,440 Speaker 1: from high school. But go try to park under a 315 00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:05,000 Speaker 1: lance a street light in the Walmart parking a while. 316 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:08,960 Speaker 1: We've all seen them, because she thought it would be safer. 317 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:13,800 Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut three our physic Khut 318 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:17,000 Speaker 1: not shared, according to the family in a local TV interview, 319 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:20,600 Speaker 1: is video of him forcing his way into her car. 320 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:25,840 Speaker 1: This person did say or do something to Naomi to 321 00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:28,520 Speaker 1: make her move over from the driver's side to the 322 00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:32,479 Speaker 1: passenger's side. This wasn't chance. This was something that he 323 00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:36,879 Speaker 1: was thinking about, and he was very suspicious looking. Arion's 324 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:40,280 Speaker 1: four door Sedan was later found in this industrial area 325 00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:43,679 Speaker 1: where it was processed and from where authorities believed the 326 00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:47,400 Speaker 1: suspect may have driven away in this dark Chevy pickup. 327 00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:50,119 Speaker 1: We have no idea where she is. She's been missing 328 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:53,080 Speaker 1: for almost a week. Cartwright, who flew to Nevada to 329 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:56,919 Speaker 1: help in the search, believes someone may have betrayed Naomi's 330 00:21:57,119 --> 00:21:59,919 Speaker 1: trusting nature. I can't think about how it will end 331 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:03,840 Speaker 1: to other than us finding my sister. Two days after 332 00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:07,399 Speaker 1: Naomi disappears, her car is found. Take a listen to 333 00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:12,240 Speaker 1: our cut seven kolo. Two days after Naomi disappeared, Lyon 334 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:16,480 Speaker 1: County deputies found her car in the industrial park and friendly. 335 00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:21,560 Speaker 1: The Sheriff's office says evidence found in the car indicates 336 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:25,920 Speaker 1: criminal activity. Her family assumes that because of what Naomi 337 00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:30,720 Speaker 1: is not doing. She's eighteen, she's always on social media constantly, 338 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:35,040 Speaker 1: and she has not been on social media since Saturday morning. 339 00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:39,960 Speaker 1: We can't lose sight of what's really important, and that's 340 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:48,399 Speaker 1: Naomi's life and time's ticket. We're out of time. To 341 00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:52,400 Speaker 1: doctor Debbie Doofie Las psychologists joining us from Columbia University. 342 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:58,480 Speaker 1: Doctor Debbie, we've talked many times about routine evidence, which 343 00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:02,800 Speaker 1: is not to say typical evidence of routine behavioral evidence. 344 00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:06,880 Speaker 1: The fact that this girl went dark on social media 345 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:11,440 Speaker 1: was significant to her mother, and rightly so. Yeah, if 346 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:15,760 Speaker 1: there is something a person engages in regularly, enjoys it 347 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:21,240 Speaker 1: and then stops without any warning or indication, why, Yeah, 348 00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:25,359 Speaker 1: the mother was spot on in hearing her alarm bells 349 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:29,080 Speaker 1: go off lovely, you know, Wendy Patta, we have analyzed 350 00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:35,320 Speaker 1: criminal behavior thousands countless times. What do you make of 351 00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:39,720 Speaker 1: the purpose behavior? As he stood and stared at her 352 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:43,520 Speaker 1: car and her sitting there in the dark under the 353 00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:48,639 Speaker 1: parking lot light, just tapping away on Snapchat? What do 354 00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:51,800 Speaker 1: you make of that? Had he seen her before? Why 355 00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:54,159 Speaker 1: was he in the parking lot at five o'clock in 356 00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:55,600 Speaker 1: the morning. You know, In a word, I think it 357 00:23:55,640 --> 00:24:01,800 Speaker 1: goes to premeditation. What it shows is him thinking, stratgizing, planning, plotting, 358 00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:05,320 Speaker 1: looking at that vulnerability that people have when they're tied 359 00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:08,160 Speaker 1: to their phones, whether they're on social media or making 360 00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:11,560 Speaker 1: a call. He took advantage of that level of distraction 361 00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:15,160 Speaker 1: to make his move. So it really looks like it 362 00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:17,439 Speaker 1: wasn't random whether or not he knew her. I mean, 363 00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:20,560 Speaker 1: we'll probably find out more about that, but regardless, he 364 00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:23,680 Speaker 1: saw a vulnerable victim and he went in for the kill. 365 00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:26,960 Speaker 1: It may have been dark outside, but thankfully there was 366 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:29,400 Speaker 1: at least enough light that we can argue he knew 367 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:31,200 Speaker 1: what he was looking at, knew what he was doing, 368 00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:33,960 Speaker 1: and probably knew what he planned to do. Karen Smith, 369 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:37,280 Speaker 1: you're the forensics expert. Way in this is what I'm hearing, Nancy. 370 00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:40,560 Speaker 1: You have a primary crime scene in her car. That 371 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:43,720 Speaker 1: is the primary crime scene. They say they found evidence 372 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:47,040 Speaker 1: of a struggle or evidence of something horrible that happened 373 00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:48,919 Speaker 1: in the car that tells me it's blood. Then you 374 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:52,600 Speaker 1: have the car found at this paint manufacturing company. Okay, WHOA, 375 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:58,320 Speaker 1: You're right hold on. They absolutely said at the beginning, 376 00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:02,040 Speaker 1: there's evans in the car that convinces us this is 377 00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:04,520 Speaker 1: of a criminal nature. Franch, she didn't just meet a 378 00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:07,320 Speaker 1: guy and take off, That's right. Your assumption is that 379 00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:10,879 Speaker 1: it's blood, Well, it would have to be something visible 380 00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:13,560 Speaker 1: or something that could be detected with luminole, or how 381 00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:16,480 Speaker 1: about if her car was simply in disarrayt Okay, so 382 00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:19,640 Speaker 1: that's a good possibility. Have been a struggle, absolutely, let's 383 00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:21,840 Speaker 1: go there. What I was gonna say was you have 384 00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:25,080 Speaker 1: a secondary crime scene in this pickup truck. Was that 385 00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:29,440 Speaker 1: parked there strategically so that this perpetrator could use that 386 00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:33,280 Speaker 1: to haul her body fifty six miles to the burial site. 387 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:37,920 Speaker 1: This was definitely premeditated. This wasn't something off the cuff, Nancy. Well, 388 00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:41,320 Speaker 1: another thing is it's been said he walked up from 389 00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:45,080 Speaker 1: a homeless encampment. But I don't think this guy was homeless, 390 00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:47,760 Speaker 1: And I'll tell you why, because he had access to 391 00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:52,440 Speaker 1: another vehicle after he ditches her car at an industrial park, 392 00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:56,000 Speaker 1: which I find significant too. He knew to go to 393 00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:59,080 Speaker 1: an industrial park or her car would not be noticed 394 00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:02,080 Speaker 1: for a couple of days, and it wasn't, and he 395 00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:04,720 Speaker 1: had access to another car. A homeless person does not 396 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:09,199 Speaker 1: have access to a pickup truck. I agree. This is 397 00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:13,240 Speaker 1: not a homeless person. This is somebody who has planned this. 398 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:15,520 Speaker 1: And I don't know if he was stalking her, if 399 00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:18,880 Speaker 1: it was a you know, spur of the moment thing. 400 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:22,480 Speaker 1: As far as him watching for someone or a young 401 00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:25,400 Speaker 1: girl period, I don't know what in the world could 402 00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:28,360 Speaker 1: he have said to her to make her move over. 403 00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:32,880 Speaker 1: I don't under maybe threatened her with a gun. Absolutely 404 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:35,120 Speaker 1: he had some kind of implement, whether it was a gun, 405 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:39,120 Speaker 1: a knife, the implication that he had a weapon with him. 406 00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:41,919 Speaker 1: You know, I don't know how big this man is, 407 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:44,320 Speaker 1: but if you know a girl and you have a 408 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:47,840 Speaker 1: man threatening you or saying something to you, or displaying 409 00:26:47,840 --> 00:27:05,400 Speaker 1: a weapon to you, that's where my mind goes crime 410 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:13,640 Speaker 1: stories with Nancy Grace. This is what we know right now. 411 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:18,360 Speaker 1: The remains of this teen girl just graduating from high 412 00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:23,320 Speaker 1: school have been found in a shallow grave hastily dug 413 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:29,720 Speaker 1: in Churchill County. That's about an hour fifteen minutes drive 414 00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:32,720 Speaker 1: away from her home where she lived with her older 415 00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:38,240 Speaker 1: brother in Fernley, Nevada. What does that tell us about 416 00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:42,919 Speaker 1: the purp Was he from Churchill County? Did he kill 417 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:48,800 Speaker 1: her at his home in Churchill County? I'm thinking specifically 418 00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:53,560 Speaker 1: of how we can obtain forensic evidence, but in the 419 00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:57,679 Speaker 1: last hours we also learn of a suspect. Take a 420 00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:00,840 Speaker 1: listen to our cut twenty six Our Friends Inside edition. 421 00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:04,760 Speaker 1: A suspect is in custody accused of abducting a Nevada woman. 422 00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:08,600 Speaker 1: Two weeks ago, forty one year old Troy driver was 423 00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:12,959 Speaker 1: arrested and charged with kidnapping by the Lion County Sheriff's Office. 424 00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:17,000 Speaker 1: Eighteen year old Naomi Erion has not yet been located. 425 00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:20,399 Speaker 1: She was last seen on surveillance video pulling into the 426 00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:23,520 Speaker 1: parking lot of a Walmart where she usually parked her 427 00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:26,600 Speaker 1: car to catch a bus to work. Police released video 428 00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:29,719 Speaker 1: of the suspect they believe got in her car and 429 00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:33,960 Speaker 1: left the morning of March twelfth. They also released images 430 00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:37,840 Speaker 1: of the vehicle they believe he was driving. Authorities say 431 00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:40,840 Speaker 1: they have also located the pickup truck they believe was 432 00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:44,960 Speaker 1: leaving the scene where Naomi's car was later found. Naomi's 433 00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:47,720 Speaker 1: friends and family continue to hold out hope she will 434 00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:51,520 Speaker 1: be found, and volunteer search efforts resumed to locate her. 435 00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:54,840 Speaker 1: Anyone with information is still asked to call the Lion 436 00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:58,240 Speaker 1: County Sheriff's Office. At this point, that information would be 437 00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:03,440 Speaker 1: what you know about forty one year old con That's right, 438 00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:09,880 Speaker 1: he's a felon Troy driver. A guarantee you. Surveillance video 439 00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:14,200 Speaker 1: picked him up leaving with her from that industrial park. 440 00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:19,000 Speaker 1: Does it show him struggling with her? Does it show 441 00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:22,160 Speaker 1: him with a gun to her back? How did he 442 00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:27,160 Speaker 1: get her from her car into a truck? Was she 443 00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:32,440 Speaker 1: already dead? What is the cause of death? How have 444 00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:38,240 Speaker 1: they linked him Troy Driver to her? Is it because 445 00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:41,680 Speaker 1: of his car? To Alexis Tersche joining us from cime 446 00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:45,360 Speaker 1: online dot com, what do we know about forty one 447 00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:50,400 Speaker 1: year old Troy Driver. What we know is he has 448 00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:55,520 Speaker 1: just finished serving a fifteen year sentence for murder that 449 00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:58,960 Speaker 1: he committed when he was seventeen years old. So he 450 00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:02,760 Speaker 1: has had a lifetime of crime. In fact, so when 451 00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:05,480 Speaker 1: he was seventeen years old, he was sentenced for a 452 00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:10,040 Speaker 1: murder of a mass dealer, and he also pleaded guilty 453 00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:13,120 Speaker 1: to three charges of second degree robbery of a Circle 454 00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:17,080 Speaker 1: K convenience store and a Chevron service station as well 455 00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:20,240 Speaker 1: as breaking into a hardware store. So this location where 456 00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:22,320 Speaker 1: he committed this time where he kidnapped Naomi and the 457 00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:24,600 Speaker 1: murder her is very well known to him because this 458 00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:26,920 Speaker 1: is where he started off his life of crime. So 459 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:30,480 Speaker 1: he knows that these are vulnerable areas Are you talking 460 00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:34,160 Speaker 1: about the Walmart parking lot near Fernley or are you 461 00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:37,720 Speaker 1: talking about Churchill County the Walmart parking lot. I'm also 462 00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:40,719 Speaker 1: curious where he did his time. I wonder if that 463 00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:44,320 Speaker 1: was near where her body was found. I mean, I'm 464 00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:47,920 Speaker 1: trying to get it evidence, That's what I'm talking about it. 465 00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:51,000 Speaker 1: Did he kill her in Churchill County? Did he kill 466 00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:53,160 Speaker 1: her before she was even taken out of her car? 467 00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:57,080 Speaker 1: Did he take her somewhere and torture or rape her? 468 00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:01,360 Speaker 1: Is there evidence there? I'm looking at a conviction, the 469 00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:06,040 Speaker 1: possibility of convicting this guy isn't him? How do we 470 00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:11,040 Speaker 1: know it's him? Regarding his criminal history, take a listen 471 00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:14,680 Speaker 1: to our friend Paul Nelson katv in two. He served 472 00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:16,960 Speaker 1: time in prison for his role in nineteen ninety seven 473 00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:20,680 Speaker 1: murder in Willits, California. Driver was just seventeen at the time. 474 00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:24,040 Speaker 1: According to old articles, he pleaded guilty to accessory to 475 00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:26,840 Speaker 1: murder after the fact and a string of robberies. A 476 00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:29,239 Speaker 1: judge sentenced him to fifteen years in prison, but he 477 00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:31,720 Speaker 1: may have only he may have been released after or 478 00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:35,680 Speaker 1: after twelve years. The suspect of Naomi Irion's kidnapping is 479 00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:39,160 Speaker 1: in the Lion County jail. According to the Ucaiah Daily Journal, 480 00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:41,880 Speaker 1: Troy Driver served time in prison for helping cover up 481 00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:44,680 Speaker 1: a murder in nineteen ninety seven. It says he helped 482 00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:46,720 Speaker 1: put the body of an alleged drug dealer in a 483 00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:49,440 Speaker 1: car trunk then dumped him in the woods. It is 484 00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:53,360 Speaker 1: upsetting to me that there's people out here in the 485 00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:56,480 Speaker 1: general public that has these capabilities, with this kind of past. 486 00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:59,400 Speaker 1: The forty one year old was arrested Friday in Fallon 487 00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:02,600 Speaker 1: and his if you pickup was impounded for evidence. Valley 488 00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:05,600 Speaker 1: doesn't expect him to tell detectives where erion is. I 489 00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:09,040 Speaker 1: would just try to relate to him as someone that 490 00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:12,720 Speaker 1: also has family and ask him to put himself in 491 00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:16,800 Speaker 1: our shoes. Well, apparently that didn't work. This guy's been 492 00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:19,040 Speaker 1: in the pen before. He is not going to tell 493 00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:23,080 Speaker 1: where the body is. However, a tipster calls in and 494 00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:25,800 Speaker 1: the remains of this teen girl just out of high 495 00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:30,080 Speaker 1: school have been found. Now I just learned a lot. 496 00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:33,880 Speaker 1: I want to go to Karen Smith. We know he's 497 00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:37,200 Speaker 1: already put one victim in his last go around after 498 00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:41,240 Speaker 1: a string of robberies and a murder being involved in 499 00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:44,520 Speaker 1: a murder, he puts the victim in a car trunk 500 00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:49,080 Speaker 1: and then dumps the body in the woods. You know what, 501 00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:54,560 Speaker 1: That's what I call a similar transaction, transporting a homicide 502 00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:58,880 Speaker 1: victim in a vehicle and then dumping the body like 503 00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:03,680 Speaker 1: it's trash out of some remote location. Same thing here, right, 504 00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:07,080 Speaker 1: And he escalated because now it was a shallow grave, Nancy, 505 00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:10,240 Speaker 1: it wasn't just dumping it in the woods. Now he's 506 00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:12,600 Speaker 1: trying to cover up his crimes. This is not foreign 507 00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:16,240 Speaker 1: to him. He's a monster. You know. The forensics, as 508 00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:19,720 Speaker 1: far as I'm concerned, we have the linkage principle, the victim, 509 00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:23,080 Speaker 1: the crime scene, to the suspect, and you link those 510 00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:27,680 Speaker 1: three things. Touch DNA, blood stains his truck, if that's 511 00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:30,360 Speaker 1: his truck. You know, all of these different things that 512 00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:33,240 Speaker 1: the crime scene investigators and detectives are going to be doing. 513 00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:35,840 Speaker 1: To put him in that truck, to put him in 514 00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:38,080 Speaker 1: her car, to put him at the scene at the 515 00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:40,840 Speaker 1: time of the crime. That's exactly what their job is. 516 00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:42,840 Speaker 1: I have no doubt they're going to do it. I 517 00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:48,360 Speaker 1: think I know what was found in her vehicle, because 518 00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:53,440 Speaker 1: before her body was even found, we know that he 519 00:33:53,600 --> 00:34:02,000 Speaker 1: was charged with kidnapping this young girl, and he was 520 00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:06,080 Speaker 1: also charged with kidnapping for the purpose of sex assaulting. 521 00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:10,400 Speaker 1: So something in that car, whether it was her clothing, 522 00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:17,360 Speaker 1: her underwear, something that would suggest to police she was 523 00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:21,960 Speaker 1: kidnapped to be raped. That's what I think is in 524 00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:27,719 Speaker 1: the car. Yes, absolutely, And it's not hard to financing 525 00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:30,239 Speaker 1: if you have a seaman stain. For instance, to use 526 00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:32,680 Speaker 1: the alternate light source, which is just a rainbow in 527 00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:34,560 Speaker 1: a box is what I call it. You use a 528 00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:38,040 Speaker 1: blue light with orange goggles and that stain will luminess. 529 00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:40,719 Speaker 1: You take a sample of it, You cut the entire 530 00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:42,400 Speaker 1: cushion of the car out. If that's where it is, 531 00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:45,160 Speaker 1: you take the entire piece of clothing you have DNA, 532 00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:48,080 Speaker 1: run on that stain and there you go. Jackie, while 533 00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:53,120 Speaker 1: we're talking, could you look up the location of will Its, California, 534 00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:56,759 Speaker 1: willl I t s. I think I know where it is, 535 00:34:56,760 --> 00:35:04,600 Speaker 1: but I'm not sure as it relates to Friendly, Nevada 536 00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:09,960 Speaker 1: or Churchill County, Nevada. Because he did a prison for 537 00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:15,560 Speaker 1: a ninety seven murder in Willits, California. Five hours. Okay, 538 00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:18,799 Speaker 1: that's not really going to help me. But what is 539 00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:23,440 Speaker 1: helping me prove or disprove his guilt. Is the similarity 540 00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:28,080 Speaker 1: in the modus operandi, the method of operation in that case, 541 00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:31,520 Speaker 1: putting a murder victim in a vehicle, then dumping the 542 00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:37,439 Speaker 1: body at a remote location, same exact m Speaking of 543 00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:41,160 Speaker 1: the previous murder victim to doctor Tim Gallagher, I wonder 544 00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:45,360 Speaker 1: if his ninety seven murder victim was killed in the 545 00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:49,080 Speaker 1: same way this team girl was killed. How can we 546 00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:55,040 Speaker 1: determine Naomi Irrian's cause of death. She's been in the 547 00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:58,840 Speaker 1: elements for a couple of weeks, now, Well, that's going 548 00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:03,879 Speaker 1: to require obvious an autopsy. And the thing about what 549 00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:07,560 Speaker 1: the evidence will show during the autopsy is that the 550 00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:09,600 Speaker 1: marks that were made on the body while it was 551 00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:14,040 Speaker 1: alive are still going to be thing her regardless of 552 00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:18,400 Speaker 1: the decomposition. So if she was strangled, she would have 553 00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:21,920 Speaker 1: damage around her neck, she would have marks around her 554 00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:26,000 Speaker 1: neck to show us that. If she was bludging to depths, 555 00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:30,200 Speaker 1: she would still retain the skin breakage and the broken 556 00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:35,080 Speaker 1: bones underneath. If she was shot, she may retain the 557 00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:37,839 Speaker 1: metallic projectile, she may retain the bullet within her. If 558 00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:40,880 Speaker 1: she was stabbed, she would have those type of injuries. 559 00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:45,640 Speaker 1: So even though there is decomposition. Medical science has advanced 560 00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:48,760 Speaker 1: to such a degree now that that's of very little 561 00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:52,160 Speaker 1: consequence in trying to determine the cause of death. I'm 562 00:36:52,200 --> 00:37:01,120 Speaker 1: getting information now from Jackie that they first victim was shot. Interesting, 563 00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:09,400 Speaker 1: I'm I'm getting signals that Naomi may have died a 564 00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:13,480 Speaker 1: strangulation death, be at manual or ligature. We wait to 565 00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:16,360 Speaker 1: find out about that. Believe it or not, this guy's 566 00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:19,440 Speaker 1: actually trying to get bond. Take a listen to our 567 00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:23,560 Speaker 1: cut twenty eight. This is ed pierced from Colo eight. 568 00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:26,560 Speaker 1: For most of us, forty one year old Troy Edward 569 00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:28,600 Speaker 1: Driver has been little more than a name and a 570 00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:32,880 Speaker 1: mugshot since his arrest last Friday. Disappearance in Firmly Justice 571 00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:36,200 Speaker 1: Court was by zoom from the county jail. He said little, 572 00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:39,320 Speaker 1: just one word answer was affirming his name and receipt 573 00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:42,600 Speaker 1: of the criminal complaint. Still seeing him, even on a 574 00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:45,880 Speaker 1: screen was jarring for members of eighteen year old Naomi 575 00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:49,319 Speaker 1: Arian's family in the courtroom. You know, having his face 576 00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:52,520 Speaker 1: up there is a little bit of a shock, but 577 00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:57,520 Speaker 1: he's just a human. Of greater concern was the possibility 578 00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:00,719 Speaker 1: Driver might be released. He's being held seven hundred and 579 00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:04,400 Speaker 1: fifty thousand dollars bail. His attorney deferred any argument on 580 00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:07,440 Speaker 1: the issue, but as things now stand, if he or 581 00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:10,480 Speaker 1: his family posts fifteen percent of that amount, he could 582 00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:13,200 Speaker 1: be released. If that happened, Firmly, Justice of the Piece 583 00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:16,520 Speaker 1: Laurie Matthews said it would be with severe restrictions, including 584 00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:20,160 Speaker 1: wearing a GPS monitor, avoiding the town of Firmly altogether, 585 00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:24,239 Speaker 1: but for court appearances and a daily check in with authorities. 586 00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:29,640 Speaker 1: Now to doctor Debbie Joffey ellis psychologist, professor Columbia University 587 00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:35,399 Speaker 1: and author, Doctor Debbie, you think after a guy has 588 00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:40,760 Speaker 1: done time hard jail time being implicated in a murder 589 00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:44,400 Speaker 1: and a string of robberies, then he would do anything 590 00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:51,560 Speaker 1: not to go back to jail. Right. Sounds highly likely? Yep, Nancy, Okay. 591 00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:53,480 Speaker 1: I was expecting a little bit more from you other 592 00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:56,960 Speaker 1: than yep. Something like the thinking that goes into the 593 00:38:57,040 --> 00:39:00,720 Speaker 1: mind of a career criminal. How they're not worried about 594 00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:03,400 Speaker 1: going back to jail. Their idea of my plan not 595 00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:06,360 Speaker 1: going back to jail is don't get caught, instead of 596 00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:11,080 Speaker 1: I'm not going to break the law. Okay, take two. Right, 597 00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:15,399 Speaker 1: So why wouldn't the plan be I'm going to get 598 00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:17,839 Speaker 1: a job. I'm not going to go back to jail, 599 00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:21,879 Speaker 1: So help me God in Heaven instead of Wow, when 600 00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:24,839 Speaker 1: I kidnapped this girl and rapier murder her, how can 601 00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:30,080 Speaker 1: I not get caught and go back to jail? Why? Apparently? Well, 602 00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:34,839 Speaker 1: one possibility would be the urge to do what he 603 00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:40,840 Speaker 1: did is more dominant than any tendency to think things 604 00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:46,120 Speaker 1: through regarding avoiding this, that or the other. Obviously, the 605 00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:54,080 Speaker 1: thrill or the potential satisfaction he thought he would feel 606 00:39:56,400 --> 00:40:02,560 Speaker 1: blinded him from thinking things through about being caught, not caught, 607 00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:09,120 Speaker 1: avoiding not avoiding. Okay, we all have impulses, like I 608 00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:13,080 Speaker 1: have an urge right now, but I can't really get 609 00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:17,640 Speaker 1: my fingers around his neck from this studio, So I'm 610 00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:23,839 Speaker 1: gonna have to control that impulse. Nancy Gallagher, Right, Gallagher, Mad, 611 00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:30,520 Speaker 1: I could be a psychological opinion. Okay, stop everything, we're listening, well, 612 00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:34,399 Speaker 1: just just right, just my observations, you know, and then 613 00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:36,520 Speaker 1: maybe and then the forensic scientists may or may not 614 00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:38,680 Speaker 1: agree with me on this one. But I've gotten to 615 00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:41,520 Speaker 1: a lot of crime scenes where the living conditions that 616 00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:45,480 Speaker 1: these people live under are just horrendous and actually going 617 00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:48,440 Speaker 1: to prison is is like getting a step up. You know, 618 00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:52,399 Speaker 1: they got in the meals, they get the shelter, they 619 00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:55,400 Speaker 1: get the social you know, they get the social construct 620 00:40:55,680 --> 00:40:58,200 Speaker 1: is there, you know, So it's actually getting a step up. 621 00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:01,160 Speaker 1: Leaving prison is the bad thing. Going back is always 622 00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:04,279 Speaker 1: the goal, you know. So that that's the mindset of 623 00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:08,480 Speaker 1: some of these people. And I offer the forensic scientist 624 00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:10,359 Speaker 1: on your panel how to comment on that if that's 625 00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:16,360 Speaker 1: your observations as well, I agree, doctor Tim Gallagher. Doctor Gallagher, 626 00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:22,440 Speaker 1: can I give you some friendly advice? I mean, you're 627 00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:26,319 Speaker 1: renowned in a stay far more than myself in your field. Um, 628 00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:29,120 Speaker 1: but you need to stick with being a medical examiner 629 00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:32,279 Speaker 1: because you're trying to tell me he kidnapped, raped, and 630 00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:34,560 Speaker 1: killed a teen girl just out of high school so 631 00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:41,600 Speaker 1: he could get a better crib. Stop. Okay, you know, um, no, listen, 632 00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:44,480 Speaker 1: just tell me so well. No, No, I've got a 633 00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:47,719 Speaker 1: serious question, A serious question. I don't want to hear 634 00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:57,480 Speaker 1: no offense, Doctor Gallagher. Gallagher's musings on a better ZIP code? Okay, Karen, 635 00:41:57,520 --> 00:42:01,400 Speaker 1: why is the trunk so important? Men? By the way, guys, 636 00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:04,240 Speaker 1: I've got some more information that I want to share 637 00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:08,200 Speaker 1: with you this guy actually has a linked in I 638 00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:11,279 Speaker 1: don't advise that you try to link with him the 639 00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:16,480 Speaker 1: alleged killer in this case, the convict Troy Driver. He's 640 00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:19,840 Speaker 1: got a linked in page that shows he worked in 641 00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:23,840 Speaker 1: construction and for a mining company and as a safety 642 00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:29,839 Speaker 1: coordinator and project supervisor. And here we go. He has 643 00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:34,640 Speaker 1: also lived in Elko, Nevada. I knew there had to 644 00:42:34,640 --> 00:42:38,560 Speaker 1: be a connection to him being infernally to him disposing 645 00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:42,520 Speaker 1: of her body in Churchill County. He lived in Elko. 646 00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:44,439 Speaker 1: Can you look it up for me real quick? How 647 00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:48,480 Speaker 1: close is Elko to Churchill County? What were you saying? 648 00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:51,520 Speaker 1: I was going to say that the doc he does 649 00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:54,520 Speaker 1: have a valid point in that he's been institutionalized. He's 650 00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:57,719 Speaker 1: been in prison what twelve fifteen years? So yeah, that's 651 00:42:57,719 --> 00:42:59,920 Speaker 1: a valid point that if he does get caught, he 652 00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:03,600 Speaker 1: knows what to expect. However, as I said before, he 653 00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:07,920 Speaker 1: escalated this time, he buried the body as opposed to 654 00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:10,480 Speaker 1: leaving it somewhere else where it would be readily found. 655 00:43:11,040 --> 00:43:14,600 Speaker 1: So that tells me that he's, you know, his psyche 656 00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:16,320 Speaker 1: has developed to the point where now I'm going to 657 00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:18,400 Speaker 1: hide the body regardless of whether or not he was 658 00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:20,920 Speaker 1: familiar with the area. That was for the detective end you, 659 00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:23,520 Speaker 1: of course, Nancy Grace, to find out whether or not 660 00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:26,120 Speaker 1: he was familiar with that area. So yeah, I can 661 00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:31,120 Speaker 1: see that point got me an answer from Elko to 662 00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:36,160 Speaker 1: firmly it is three hours from Elko to Churchill County. 663 00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:40,040 Speaker 1: It's four hours he need this area. It sounds like 664 00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:45,600 Speaker 1: a triangle for right now, Troy Driver is still behind bars. 665 00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:48,600 Speaker 1: They're actually discussing whether he could be released with an 666 00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:54,120 Speaker 1: ankle monitor. Really murder number two. You know what, judge, 667 00:43:54,680 --> 00:43:58,560 Speaker 1: you take him home with you. We wait until Driver 668 00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:02,520 Speaker 1: goes to trial. Fancy Grace friand the story signing off 669 00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:03,200 Speaker 1: he by