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Speaker 1: Why is it so difficult to lose weight.

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Speaker 2: Because your brain hates it when you lose it, you're

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Speaker 2: finding biologuist.

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Speaker 1: Doctor drives a well top, Thank you so much. So

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Speaker 1: if calories is such a myth, how come so many

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Speaker 1: people have used it as a strategy for weight loss and.

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Speaker 2: People get so obsessed with just the number that when

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Speaker 2: they're cutting calories, they're considering the quality of the food

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Speaker 2: that they're eating. The major issue is not the quantity,

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Speaker 2: it is the quality.

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Speaker 1: So what truly is healthier? How do we know what

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Speaker 1: healthy actually is?

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Speaker 2: Calories are not all equal. For every one hundred calories

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Speaker 2: of protein you eat, we are only ever able to

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Speaker 2: use seventy calories. Protein counts are thirty percent wrong everywhere.

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Speaker 1: So if you could encourage people to change part of

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Speaker 1: their diet, what should they be focused on?

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Speaker 2: Those are the three numbers that would use deploy it

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Speaker 2: to your culture, your type of diet. If you actually

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Speaker 2: focus on those three numbers, your diet will automatically become healthier.

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Speaker 1: So we have to go do some shopping, which my

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Speaker 1: wife will be very mad at me for that. I've

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Speaker 1: brought things into this house that she would never allow

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Speaker 1: me to have.

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Speaker 2: You see here parts These are called incidental virtuous foods

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Speaker 2: automatically made everyone lower their calorie estimates by ten.

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Speaker 1: If you're predisposed because of your genetics to being overweight,

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Speaker 1: are you stuck? The number one health and wellness.

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Speaker 3: Podcast, Jay Sheety, Jay Sheddy Jesus, Hey everyone, welcome back

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Speaker 3: to On Purpose, the place you come to become the happier,

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Speaker 3: healthier and more healed.

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Speaker 1: I'm so grateful that you tune back in. Make sure

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Speaker 1: you subscribed if you haven't already. And today's guest, I know,

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Speaker 1: is going to be someone who's going to answer a

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Speaker 1: lot of your questions. We've been reading the comments. I've

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Speaker 1: been reading all of the things that you've been asking about,

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Speaker 1: posting about when you're sharing the podcast, and this episode

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Speaker 1: is dedicated to you. Today's guest is Charles Yo, a geneticist,

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Speaker 1: author and professor at the University of Cambridge, where he

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Speaker 1: studies how our genes influence hunger and body weight. He's

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Speaker 1: the author of Gene Eating and Why Calories Don't Count.

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Speaker 1: This is the book that we're discussing today. If you're

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Speaker 1: listening and you're loving the information, go and grab your copy.

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Speaker 1: And he's one of the leading voices in challenging diet

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Speaker 1: myths through science. We all know there's a ton of

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Speaker 1: diet myths out there right now. Today we're going to

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Speaker 1: bust them. And Charles also hosts the podcast Choose the Fat.

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Speaker 1: Go and subscribe. If you haven't already, please welcome to

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Speaker 1: On Purpose Charles. Yo, Charles, it's great to have you here.

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Speaker 2: Jay, thanks so much for having me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm so grateful for the work you're doing and

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Speaker 1: excited to be educated and illuminated. Surprised today with everything

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Speaker 1: you have to share. But the first thing I want

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Speaker 1: to ask you, that I want to dive in with you,

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Speaker 1: is do calories actually matter?

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Speaker 2: The book obviously says why calories don't count, And every

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Speaker 2: time I say that, people think I'm antiphysics, but particularly

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Speaker 2: the Jimbros, the guys who are all counting counting calories,

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Speaker 2: they think I'm antiphysics. I'm not antiphysics. I know that

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Speaker 2: two hundred calories of chips is twice the portion of

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Speaker 2: one hundred calories of chips. I do understand that, But

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Speaker 2: so is two hundred grams of chips twice the portion

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Speaker 2: of one hundred grams of chips. And no one is

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Speaker 2: trying to compare two hundred grams of chips to two

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Speaker 2: hundred grams of carrots. I think ultimately that is it.

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Speaker 2: So we eat food, our body then extracts the calories,

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Speaker 2: and depending on what we eat, your body has to

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Speaker 2: work more or less hard to extract the calories.

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Speaker 1: So when does our body have to work more hard

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Speaker 1: and when does it have to work less hard?

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Speaker 2: Primarily if food has more protein in it, and if

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Speaker 2: food has more fiber in its fiber only comes from plants, obviously,

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Speaker 2: then your body has to work harder in order to

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Speaker 2: get you know, to get out the cards, get out

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Speaker 2: the fat, and get everything out of there. If there's

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Speaker 2: less protein and less fiber, then your body finds it

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Speaker 2: far easier to actually extract us calories put simplistically.

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Speaker 1: But that's not always good for us.

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Speaker 2: Now, that's not always good for us, that's not so.

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Speaker 2: So I think it depends why you need the calories,

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Speaker 2: how healthy or unhealthier you are as you are actually

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Speaker 2: eating to get the calories. It probably was good for

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Speaker 2: us fifty thousand years ago. As so you can imagine

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Speaker 2: if you've taken down the antelope, okay, and you're sitting

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Speaker 2: there and eating raw meat. Okay, You've taken really a

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Speaker 2: lot of energy to take the antlope, and you're eating

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Speaker 2: the raw meat, and so you're getting a certain amount

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Speaker 2: of calories from it until someone suddenly invented fire okay,

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Speaker 2: and so when you then put the raw meat into

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Speaker 2: the fire, you suddenly have a kebab okay, and you

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Speaker 2: eat it. The cooking makes it easier for your body

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Speaker 2: to extract the calories. So in that sense, for the

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Speaker 2: x number of energy you've taken the chase down the antelope,

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Speaker 2: you now getting more energy, more calories. So in that sense,

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Speaker 2: it kept us alive. In fact, people think that at

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Speaker 2: around the time when we had fire and then suddenly

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Speaker 2: we're able to cook food, that is when our brain

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Speaker 2: began to grow more, okay, because we then had time

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Speaker 2: not to always think about food, but we could then

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Speaker 2: get more energy from the food that we were currently eating.

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Speaker 2: So at that point excellent today, le's good.

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Speaker 1: So if calories is such a myth, how come so

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Speaker 1: many of the jimbros and the people have used it

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Speaker 1: as a strategy for weight loss for so long?

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Speaker 2: You know, calorie counting has been around for a long time.

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Speaker 2: It has been around since the early nineteen hundreds, there

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Speaker 2: was a doctor called lou Hunt Pizzas based yeah, Los Angeles, okay,

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Speaker 2: Los Angeles based clinician in nineteen whatever time, I right

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Speaker 2: right after World War two, larger lady, and she began

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Speaker 2: to realize that actually she needed to lose weight. Okay,

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Speaker 2: and I realized obesity wasn't a problem at a time,

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Speaker 2: but she began to say that, you know what, you

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Speaker 2: can't imagine yourself lighter. You have to really begin to

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Speaker 2: think about about how much you're eating. And so calories

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Speaker 2: were a new science at the time. And what she

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Speaker 2: did was she decided that and I read the book.

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Speaker 2: It's a good books if you look up Lulu Hunt Pezzas,

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Speaker 2: and what she would say is, don't think about eating

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Speaker 2: a slice of pie. Don't think about eating bacon. Think

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Speaker 2: about eating one hundred calories of pie. Think about eating

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Speaker 2: one hundred calories of bacon. And she published this book

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Speaker 2: New York Times bestseller for five years running okay, in

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Speaker 2: nineteen seventeen or something like that. She was the first

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Speaker 2: calorie counter. The thing about calories is sure, okay, if

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Speaker 2: you are cutting calories in a balanced way, so say,

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Speaker 2: your diet is actually fine. But you're eating too much

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Speaker 2: of the diet pence you have obesity. Well, then if

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Speaker 2: you don't take a sort of a balanced way of

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Speaker 2: reducing your calories, it does work. The problem we have

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Speaker 2: today is people get so obsessed with just the number

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Speaker 2: that calorie four hundred, five hundred and six hundred that

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Speaker 2: when they're cutting calories, they are no longer cutting it

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Speaker 2: either evenly. But they're also not even considering the quality

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Speaker 2: of the food that they're eating, just thinking, Okay, if

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Speaker 2: i only have to have four hundred calories, I'm gonna

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Speaker 2: have it as a shake, I'm gonna have it as

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Speaker 2: this as that, rather than thinking more in terms of

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Speaker 2: nutritional quality of the food. That is my major issue with.

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Speaker 1: Calories, right, So it's almost like the age old quantity

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Speaker 1: versus quality issue.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, quantity does matter to a degree, clearly, of course,

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Speaker 2: but I think today the major issue to my mind

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Speaker 2: is not the quantity, it is the quality. I think

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Speaker 2: our diets on average have not improved, so in fact

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Speaker 2: they've gotten worse as the quality of diet. We get

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Speaker 2: far more calories. Now, calories have never been cheaper in

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Speaker 2: the UK, which is which is where I'm based. You

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Speaker 2: can get you can get a thousand calories of chips

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Speaker 2: French fries okay for less than a pound okay, which

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Speaker 2: is what a dollar about thirty or something like that.

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Speaker 2: Excuse me, really, so it is very cheap. But are

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Speaker 2: they good for you? Okay? Well? Are the dudo's calories

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Speaker 2: really really matter? Are you getting all the micronutrients? Are

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Speaker 2: you getting everything that you actually need? Think about the

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Speaker 2: quality of the food. The quantity matters, but it's a

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Speaker 2: secondary concern to me.

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Speaker 1: What is different between five hundred galories of French fries,

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Speaker 1: because that's probably what it is, right if it's fried

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Speaker 1: as well, and the oil and everything that you add

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Speaker 1: to it versus what would you compare that to in

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Speaker 1: our head? What are the mistakes people are making when

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Speaker 1: they're just calorie counting, when they're only looking at quantity,

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Speaker 1: What are they comparing to be equal? Almost that isn't

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Speaker 1: really equal from a micronutrient level.

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Speaker 2: Let me give you a more an extreme example. First, okay,

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Speaker 2: the same food corn on a carb sweet corn. Now,

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Speaker 2: if you had one hundred calories of and then you

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Speaker 2: looked in the blue the next day, is quite clear

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Speaker 2: you haven't absorbed anywhere close to hundred calories of free corn.

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Speaker 2: But when you take sweet corn exactly the same corn,

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Speaker 2: you desiccate it. You know you you sort of you

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Speaker 2: turn it into a muscle, You make a quanto tia,

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Speaker 2: you make corn bread. Suddenly a far greater percentage of

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Speaker 2: the calories are made available to you. But you always

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Speaker 2: started with a one hundred calories of sweet corn. Okay,

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Speaker 2: So that is the two thing where processing gets you

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Speaker 2: more calories. Think about a steak, okay, where you have

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Speaker 2: a steak, just a normal steak for and calories of

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Speaker 2: a steak. Say you cook medium rare, so five minutes,

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Speaker 2: eight minutes to cook. Imagine that same steak murdered, okay,

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Speaker 2: So you then mince it up, you put it into

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Speaker 2: a regue bolonnaise sauce, which you have to cook for

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Speaker 2: two hours. Then you layer that into a lasagnia. You

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Speaker 2: cook it again for another three hours. Suddenly the same

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Speaker 2: four hundred calories has been cooked for three hours before

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Speaker 2: you eat it. You're gonna get more calories out of that,

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Speaker 2: not more than four hundred calories. You just have to

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Speaker 2: work very hard to get the four hundred calories compared

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Speaker 2: to getting something which has been cooked for three to

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Speaker 2: four hours. So it's not when you take the same

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Speaker 2: food and think about how you prepare the food, then

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Speaker 2: the different calorie counts then begin to matter the moment

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Speaker 2: you then cross compare food. If you're trying to compare

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Speaker 2: chips to a steak, that is very very difficult to

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Speaker 2: do because now you're talking about this iron and steak.

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Speaker 2: You know, there's obviously a lot of protein and steak.

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Speaker 2: There are some fat and steak as well, all all

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Speaker 2: these things that have happened, Whereas if you're now looking

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Speaker 2: at a French fries, there's a lot of fat. Obviously

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Speaker 2: there's a lot of carbo hydrants. There's nothing wrong with carbohydrates.

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Speaker 2: We need carbohydrates. But comparing four to five hundred calories

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Speaker 2: of each of them very very very different.

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Speaker 1: And you're saying that most of us look at them

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Speaker 1: as the same because we're looking at quantity. We're ultimately

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Speaker 1: saying five hundred calories of this and five hundred calories

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Speaker 1: of this, Now you've got to go.

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Speaker 2: Certainly is true in the UK as well. I think

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Speaker 2: it's true here in the US. You goner any of

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Speaker 2: the big food manufact not manufacturers, the restaurants, Okay, big

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Speaker 2: chain restaurants and you open it up and you see

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Speaker 2: the calorie counts. Now, when you see the calorie counts

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Speaker 2: by the meal, you're going, no, this is a thousand calories.

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Speaker 2: I don't need that. Oh wait a minute, I'm going

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Speaker 2: to go with this one. It's got eight hundred calories.

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Speaker 2: Is two hundred calories. And most people just look at

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Speaker 2: that and don't even really consider, well, is it eight

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Speaker 2: hundred calories of a salad versus this? How much dressing

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Speaker 2: in a salad? No one is thinking about these things

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Speaker 2: when they're just comparing the eight hundred versus one thousand

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Speaker 2: in thinking I'm going for eight hundred because that is

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Speaker 2: healthier because there's a smaller number, and a lot of

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Speaker 2: us do this. That's the danger of obsessing over one

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Speaker 2: individual number.

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Speaker 1: So what truly is healthier? How do we know what

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Speaker 1: healthy actually is?

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Speaker 2: That is a very difficult question because it depends now clearly,

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Speaker 2: if you are a child, clearly, if you are an

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Speaker 2: Olympic athlete and exercising, or if you are an old

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Speaker 2: person in a hospital in bed, you know, and you're

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Speaker 2: trying very very difficult to absorb calories. Then from that

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Speaker 2: specific scenario, you need a lot of energy that you

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Speaker 2: can metabolize easily. Okay. Now, if you're Joe Schmoe like

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Speaker 2: me sat on a couch okay, or if you're doing

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Speaker 2: or you're an office worker, well then your needs what

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Speaker 2: is considered healthy then becomes very very different to someone else.

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Speaker 2: So what is healthy really does depend not only on

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Speaker 2: who you are in terms of your age, your ethnicity,

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Speaker 2: you know, your sex, right, but it also does matter

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Speaker 2: what you're doing at the time. So it does depend.

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Speaker 1: When did a B city start to become a real

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Speaker 1: problem and why.

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Speaker 2: It's obviously a spectrum. I don't think suddenly one day

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Speaker 2: we woke up and said, ah, it's obesity. I think

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Speaker 2: people began collecting numbers the United States in particular, in

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Speaker 2: around nineteen eighty four. So if you go back and

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Speaker 2: look prior to nineteen eighty four, they were there was

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Speaker 2: not a great deal of data. Obviously, some people were

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Speaker 2: still collecting data. There had always been people who had

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Speaker 2: OBCCE this is not a unique thing, but very few

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Speaker 2: around nineteen eighty four. And coincidentally, that's also when Domino's

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Speaker 2: Pizza made it to the UK. We'll leave that alone, okay,

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Speaker 2: from that, but nineteen eighty four appears to be the

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Speaker 2: ground zero for when people begin to collect data. And

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Speaker 2: so I think that most people accept that the mid

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Speaker 2: eighties was when we begin to see a problem, and

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Speaker 2: it's only gotten worse and worse since the mid eighties.

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Speaker 1: When was the rise of fast food? When did that

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Speaker 1: really begin? Do you know? I'm intrigued now.

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Speaker 2: So I think the first true well depends what you

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Speaker 2: mean my fast food, right, I mean, because I feel

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Speaker 2: like when we.

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Speaker 1: Just started to be able to go buy a burger

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Speaker 1: or buy a pizza in the same way as you said.

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Speaker 2: So the first, the first of the big fast food

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Speaker 2: manufacturers was obviously well, one of the first was McDonald's. Okay, McDonald's,

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Speaker 2: And I think there's a movie about that, right, a

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Speaker 2: great movie, you know. How It's fine how they work

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Speaker 2: it out. But he didn't set out to make unhealthy food.

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Speaker 2: He was setting out to make a consistent product that

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Speaker 2: people could afford and enjoy to eat, Okay, and at

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Speaker 2: the time, oblically wasn't a problem. So trying to increase

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Speaker 2: access to foods that at the time were only available

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Speaker 2: to people with more money, you know, was a positive thing.

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Speaker 2: As we begin to value convenience more and also oddly enough,

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Speaker 2: begin to value portion sizes more. I like a big

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Speaker 2: steak like anybody else. But now portion size has also

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Speaker 2: overwhelming become you know, part of the goodness of a meal.

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Speaker 2: So it's very very difficult to to to say, but

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Speaker 2: I think when drip drip, dripped up drip, and as

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Speaker 2: suddenly we're in a situation, we are now then boosted.

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Speaker 2: I want to point out, completely boosted by the deliveroos

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Speaker 2: and uber eats of the world, where suddenly where at

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Speaker 2: least okay, in fact, let's back away. First of all,

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Speaker 2: you could drive through okay, so that was probably the

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Speaker 2: first of the true conveniences. Oh I can drive through Okay,

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Speaker 2: you don't even get out of the car. Then I think,

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Speaker 2: then we obviously had this situation. Then that supersized me.

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Speaker 2: There's you know, can I where it actually use a

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Speaker 2: marketing kloy where you can add that, and then you

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Speaker 2: have delivered uber eats where now you don't have the

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Speaker 2: get off your couch, I can peep and someone will

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Speaker 2: actually deliver the food to my door. It has been

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Speaker 2: ample So each step has amplified it more till today

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Speaker 2: we're sat here. If we wanted to eat whatever I

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Speaker 2: mean we're doing it twenty minutes, suddenly we'll have a

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Speaker 2: whole fast food you know, feast in front of us.

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Speaker 2: So I think it wasn't one single thing, but each

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Speaker 2: of these each of these things suddenly increased our ability

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Speaker 2: and ea of getting of getting these foods. The foods

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Speaker 2: also became cheaper. Yeah, that's the problem today.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and so since we've started measuring, we are putting

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Speaker 1: on more weight. We are, Yeah, we are as a whole,

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Speaker 1: on the whole, we're just pretty humans are just putting

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Speaker 1: on more weight.

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Speaker 2: We are putting more on more weight, and not in

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Speaker 2: an unhealthy and exactly and not the good weight. You know,

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Speaker 2: we're not putting on we're not putting on muscle. Interestingly, actually,

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Speaker 2: if you go back to the time when we were

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Speaker 2: working more physical jobs, none of us really works physical,

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Speaker 2: you know what I mean, where we sat on our

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Speaker 2: backsides and doing things. We have dish washers and stuff

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Speaker 2: like that. Actually, if you go around to the turn

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Speaker 2: of the eighteen to the nineteenth century Victorian times, people

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Speaker 2: were probably eating more calories than actually physically more. But

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Speaker 2: people were doing coal mining. They were working in you know,

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Speaker 2: in the steel mills and et cetera, et cetera, So

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Speaker 2: they would probably be on average. Certainly, in Victorian era

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Speaker 2: in the UK, people were doing three thousand average calories

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Speaker 2: a day. But that's because they were coal miners, that's

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Speaker 2: because they were washing clothes, that's because they were doing

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Speaker 2: everything else. So we on average are probably eating fewer calories,

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Speaker 2: but where they come from have really really changed, right,

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Speaker 2: the type of food we're eating, So calories are not

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Speaker 2: all equal.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you say, the body digests obviously carbs, fats, and

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Speaker 1: proteins absolutely differently, correct, why is that important and tell

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Speaker 1: us the difference?

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Speaker 2: Okay, there three things, So these are obviously fats, the macronutrients. Okay,

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Speaker 2: so fat, carbs, and protein are primarily made. In fact,

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Speaker 2: fats and carbs are only made of three atoms. Okay,

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Speaker 2: so carbon, hydrogen, or oxygen, but in different configurations. Okay.

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Speaker 2: Protein however, has carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, but it's also full

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Speaker 2: of nitrogen. About sixteen percent of protein is nitrogen. So

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Speaker 2: whenever our body is dealing with the stuff, it is

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Speaker 2: far easy easier for your body to digest and then metabolize,

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Speaker 2: which is two different steps. Right, So digestion means the

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Speaker 2: food is converted. Fat is converted to fatty acids, protein

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Speaker 2: is converted to amino acids, and carbs are converted to

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Speaker 2: sugars unless you sugars and then it passes across the

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Speaker 2: gut wall. That is digestion, that's where that's when that happens.

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Speaker 2: Metabolism is when those individual amino acids, fatty acids, sugars

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Speaker 2: are transported to the cell and your cell then converts

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Speaker 2: it to energy. That's metabolism. So each of those two

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Speaker 2: stages takes time, takes energy, and your body has to

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Speaker 2: invest energy into it. So protein is the most complicated.

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Speaker 2: So for every one hundred calories of protein you eat

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Speaker 2: pure protein calories, we are only ever able to use

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Speaker 2: seventy calories seven zero. So protein CONTs are thirty percent

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Speaker 2: wrong everywhere because we give it off as heat as

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Speaker 2: part of the energy we put in to sorting out.

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Speaker 2: To sorting out protein fans is nearly one hundred percent available,

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Speaker 2: so to speak, because because it's very very dense carbs,

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Speaker 2: this is where the fiber comes in. So if you

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Speaker 2: have refined carbohydrates, now if you have sugar, if you

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Speaker 2: have sugar, that's ninety eight ninety nine percent available Okay,

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Speaker 2: so let's not ignore sugar. But sugar is a very

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Speaker 2: simple carbohydrate. But if we have something starchy. Now, if

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Speaker 2: you had white bread so polished where the fiber has

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Speaker 2: been stripped out, then it probably takes five calories for

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Speaker 2: every hundred so five percent to deal with carbohydrates without fiber,

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Speaker 2: Whereas if you put in fiber, if you have whole meal,

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Speaker 2: if what have you, then it takes ten percent of

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Speaker 2: energy to deal with it. Your body's just dealing with it.

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Speaker 2: So calorie counts are probably five to ten percent wrong

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Speaker 2: everywhere because of the amount of energy it takes to

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Speaker 2: metabolize these macronutrients.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you said that. You're right that we

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Speaker 1: absorb fewer calories from almonds than the packaging actually says.

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Speaker 2: Yes, far far far far far few explain that. So

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Speaker 2: because almonds are you know, there're eight our whole food.

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Speaker 2: You've got to bite through them. There's obviously fiber in them,

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Speaker 2: there's all kinds of things, and so what Okay, in fact,

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Speaker 2: let's back away, So how do you count calculate how

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Speaker 2: many calories there are in a product? Okay, a guy

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Speaker 2: called Atwater, and this Atwater was a professor of biochemistry

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Speaker 2: in Connecticut between eighteen eighty and nineteen hundred. This is

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Speaker 2: a while ago, Okay. He used a technique called bomb calorimetry.

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Speaker 2: And in effect, what you do is you take food,

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Speaker 2: you burn it in a sealed container, and then you

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Speaker 2: measure how much heat it gives off through a water

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Speaker 2: and a temperature, so how much heat it goes up.

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Speaker 2: So one calorie is the amount of temperature it takes

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Speaker 2: to raise one liter of water one degree celsius at

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Speaker 2: sea level, So that's a calorie. And so what he

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Speaker 2: did at Water did was he took almonds, celery, carrot, steak,

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Speaker 2: he burnt them and figured out how many total calories

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Speaker 2: were in there. He also knew how much fat and protein.

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Speaker 2: He then fed the almonds, carrots and two people and

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Speaker 2: then he burnt their pooh, okay, for twenty years he

390
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Speaker 2: did this and from there that is where he came

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Speaker 2: up with the atwater general factors. So, for all of

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Speaker 2: us who have done high school biology, four calories for

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Speaker 2: a gram of carb, four calories for a for a

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Speaker 2: gram of protein, and nine calories for a gram of fat.

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Speaker 2: So that came from atwater and and and you know

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Speaker 2: what he was doing The issue is obviously that when

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Speaker 2: you actually burn all of it, everything goes away, and

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Speaker 2: so all the calories are there. Whereas when you have

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00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:19,120
Speaker 2: to metabolize it and it goes into your body, then

400
00:20:19,119 --> 00:20:22,760
Speaker 2: your body begins to metabolize. Energy has to go in

401
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Speaker 2: in order to extract stuff out. I'll give you another example.

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Speaker 2: Actually celery. Okay, Now, celery famously people have said has

403
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Speaker 2: negative calories. That's not quite true. So like a medium

404
00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:37,040
Speaker 2: stick of celery like you might get with buffalo wings

405
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Speaker 2: or something, right that is, probably you may get raw,

406
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Speaker 2: you may get six calories out of the your lucky

407
00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:45,399
Speaker 2: if you cook that stick. However, you chop it up,

408
00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:47,719
Speaker 2: you put into a stew, what have you? Suddenly cooking

409
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Speaker 2: it you get thirty calories from it. Clary, that's exactly

410
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Speaker 2: the same stick as celery. You're not adding energy to it.

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Speaker 2: It's because the fiber and everything like that. It's just

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Speaker 2: very difficult to extrac calories out. Whereas when you cook

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Speaker 2: it and you process it, okay, suddenly it's easier for

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Speaker 2: you to get that calorie out. So therefore, an almond,

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Speaker 2: which is not a process item, right because the only

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Speaker 2: thing you've done is to take it off the skin, okay,

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Speaker 2: and then you eat it. Now, if you make almond milk,

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Speaker 2: if you if you if you actually put down and

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Speaker 2: and and and put an almond powder and do things

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Speaker 2: like that, then you begin to get more calories out

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Speaker 2: of the out of the almond.

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Speaker 1: Got it. So I have to ask you this because

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Speaker 1: every summer a lot of people from the States will

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Speaker 1: go to Europe and they'll say, I ate pasta, I

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Speaker 1: ate pizza, and I lost weight. But when I eat

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Speaker 1: that in America, it's never gonna happen. Is that true? Like,

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Speaker 1: why is it that people feel when they go to

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Speaker 1: Europe they can eat all the things, they can eat bread,

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Speaker 1: they can eat pasta, and they're not putting on weight,

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Speaker 1: They're not feeling the same.

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Speaker 2: I think they're probably two different reasons for Okay, okay.

432
00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:50,960
Speaker 2: So I think, first of all, I think they're walking

433
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:53,000
Speaker 2: more because because when you go when you go to

434
00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:55,680
Speaker 2: Europe and you're doing thing, you're not gonna drive around Rome, right,

435
00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:57,719
Speaker 2: I mean, you're gonna be You're gonna be walking, You're

436
00:21:57,720 --> 00:21:59,399
Speaker 2: gonna be doing this. So I think there's a walking

437
00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:02,560
Speaker 2: element here. Try and walk around here in La impossible.

438
00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:06,560
Speaker 2: So I think there's probably that as well, but everything

439
00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:09,719
Speaker 2: there is made by hand and from scratch. No, that's

440
00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:12,640
Speaker 2: not a lot. That's obviously you can go to fastwood

441
00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:14,960
Speaker 2: places as well, But if you're going to Rome, or

442
00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:17,400
Speaker 2: you're going to Sicily, you're gonna go to the mom

443
00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:20,800
Speaker 2: and pop shop, you're gonna go to what they're doing exactly,

444
00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:23,600
Speaker 2: the local places. And so they would have cooked the

445
00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:26,560
Speaker 2: food for less, they would have used other techniques and

446
00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:31,520
Speaker 2: so things just you are going to get less calories

447
00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:35,320
Speaker 2: out because they're less processed processing of food. There's nothing

448
00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:38,560
Speaker 2: wrong with processed foods per se, because everything that you

449
00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:40,560
Speaker 2: do to a food is processed. So cooking is a process,

450
00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:44,680
Speaker 2: fermentation is a process. Ultra processing, the super processing of food,

451
00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:47,600
Speaker 2: that's another story entirely because obviously what that happens is

452
00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:50,520
Speaker 2: those are industrial processes. And I think a lot of

453
00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:53,600
Speaker 2: the food that we eat, fifty percent of the calories okay,

454
00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:55,480
Speaker 2: that we get, certainly in the UK as well and

455
00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:58,760
Speaker 2: in the US, fifty percent come from prepackaged foods okay,

456
00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:01,879
Speaker 2: are so called quote unquote ultra processed foods. This is

457
00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:04,560
Speaker 2: less so in somewhere like like it, say, they're more

458
00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:07,359
Speaker 2: likely to make the pizza from scratch. You're more likely

459
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:09,200
Speaker 2: no one's going to serve you a frozen pizza. You're

460
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:10,680
Speaker 2: gonna get it. It's gonna come out of the oven,

461
00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:13,159
Speaker 2: it's gonna be fed to you the past that's going

462
00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:15,320
Speaker 2: to be dried in a specific way, that's going to

463
00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:17,639
Speaker 2: be doing all kinds of things. So I think the

464
00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:20,359
Speaker 2: way they make the food does matter. But you need

465
00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:21,879
Speaker 2: to then take that into account that if you're on

466
00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:23,600
Speaker 2: holiday in Europe, you're probably walking as well.

467
00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:25,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no, because I think it's you just hear

468
00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:28,320
Speaker 1: it all the time and I'm like, wait, this is

469
00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:30,160
Speaker 1: this thrue And even even my wife says, I mean

470
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:32,800
Speaker 1: when we saw the difference in water quality even in

471
00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:37,679
Speaker 1: England versus here. Food quality for sure, so much bread quality,

472
00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:41,000
Speaker 1: bread quality for sure? Is it that everything here is

473
00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:44,159
Speaker 1: being ultra processed? Is that your challenge? Like are just

474
00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:47,639
Speaker 1: normal foods being like what about tomatoes? And they taste different?

475
00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:51,040
Speaker 1: But first, here's a quick word from the brands that

476
00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:54,880
Speaker 1: support the show. All right, thank you to our sponsors.

477
00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:58,159
Speaker 1: Now let's dive back in. I remember one year I

478
00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:01,960
Speaker 1: was in when I spend more time in India, I

479
00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:05,400
Speaker 1: remember that vegetables just taste different. Like they have flavor,

480
00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:09,120
Speaker 1: whereas here every cucumber tastes the same you won't notice

481
00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:09,760
Speaker 1: anything different.

482
00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:11,800
Speaker 2: Okay, So I think that flavor really really does matter.

483
00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:14,560
Speaker 2: I think nutritional need. I mean people say that the

484
00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:17,640
Speaker 2: vegetables here, or if you grow them in a certain way,

485
00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:20,639
Speaker 2: you get less nutrients from them. That's probably overstating it.

486
00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:21,720
Speaker 2: I don't think that's necessary.

487
00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:22,240
Speaker 1: Interesting.

488
00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:25,600
Speaker 2: I do think, however, that if you are if you're

489
00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:29,760
Speaker 2: growing vegetables first of all, using more natural techniques rather

490
00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:32,719
Speaker 2: than intensive techniques, you are going to get less pesticized

491
00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:35,119
Speaker 2: and less things. So just on that that's better for

492
00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:38,000
Speaker 2: you already, right, because you're not eating so many chemicals.

493
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:42,760
Speaker 2: I do think that they are more intense in flavor, okay.

494
00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:46,000
Speaker 2: And does flavor mean more minerals and more and more things.

495
00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:48,600
Speaker 2: Probably a little bit of that. But ultimately I don't

496
00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:51,240
Speaker 2: think the vegetables here are bad for you. They just

497
00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:53,560
Speaker 2: are not as tasty, and depending on what you're eating,

498
00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:56,080
Speaker 2: I think are going to be full of pesticize and

499
00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:58,159
Speaker 2: other things that we probably don't want to eat that

500
00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:01,399
Speaker 2: much of. I don't think that actually there are fewer

501
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:03,040
Speaker 2: good things in the vegetables here. They just don't taste

502
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:03,480
Speaker 2: as nice.

503
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:05,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, how is it that? Another thing I hear a

504
00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:09,960
Speaker 1: lot is Hey, I'm eating the same exact thing as

505
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:12,680
Speaker 1: this other person over here, but they have a six

506
00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:15,960
Speaker 1: pack and I can't even lose weight. Why is that happening?

507
00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:17,400
Speaker 1: I'm sure you hear this too.

508
00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:19,960
Speaker 2: I do. I do hear this. So there is an

509
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:24,959
Speaker 2: element of truth there that we deal with calories differently,

510
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:27,919
Speaker 2: So there are two There are two elements of it.

511
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:31,080
Speaker 2: So obviously there's this. You can break down why someone

512
00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:33,000
Speaker 2: gains weight into a number of different things. First of all,

513
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:35,200
Speaker 2: how much do they eat? That is my expertise, that's

514
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:38,080
Speaker 2: primarily what I study. But even if you ate exactly

515
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:40,399
Speaker 2: the same thing, once it gets into you, there are

516
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:44,040
Speaker 2: two elements as First of all, your efficiency, so in

517
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:47,919
Speaker 2: other words, for every given calorie, how many amount of

518
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:50,280
Speaker 2: protein for what have you? How efficients are usually at

519
00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:52,879
Speaker 2: releasing the calories? That's going to differ between you and me.

520
00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:54,919
Speaker 2: That's the first thing. The second thing is what we

521
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:58,040
Speaker 2: call nutrient partitioning. So when it comes in, how much

522
00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:00,879
Speaker 2: do you burn, how much do you store? And crucially

523
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:03,679
Speaker 2: when you store it, where do you store it? And

524
00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:06,080
Speaker 2: so all of those have genetic elements to it, which

525
00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:09,720
Speaker 2: means that they explain differences between different people, and so

526
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:12,320
Speaker 2: undoubtedly it's going to be a case where some people

527
00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:15,440
Speaker 2: can eat more than someone else and not actually gain

528
00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:19,880
Speaker 2: as much weight. The six pack element to it probably overstated.

529
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:22,080
Speaker 2: The six pack element would would be obviously be a

530
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:24,280
Speaker 2: more of an exercise and thing. But yes, it is

531
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:27,600
Speaker 2: true that people can eat more and maintain the same

532
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:28,600
Speaker 2: weight as other people.

533
00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:31,320
Speaker 1: Okay, and what do I do about that? Because that

534
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:33,960
Speaker 1: obviously doesn't feel good when you're like, hey, I'm trying

535
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:35,320
Speaker 1: to do the thing I'm trying.

536
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:38,080
Speaker 2: To I think it is not the reason for the

537
00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:41,240
Speaker 2: obesity epidemic that we're facing that is down to eating.

538
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:44,960
Speaker 2: I think that the energy expenditure and metabolism, these things

539
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:48,240
Speaker 2: play a small role, and that we have nothing that

540
00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:50,520
Speaker 2: we there's very little we can actually do about it,

541
00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:53,719
Speaker 2: right because the only interestingly, the easiest way to increase

542
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:56,640
Speaker 2: your metabolism is to gain weight. And people think it's

543
00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:59,920
Speaker 2: counter intuitive, right, right, But if you take a mini,

544
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:02,879
Speaker 2: a small time, tiny mini car, it is always going

545
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:05,480
Speaker 2: to have a lower fuel consumption than a big suv. Okay,

546
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:09,560
Speaker 2: Ultimately that's the case. So the easiest way to increase

547
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:12,200
Speaker 2: your energy expenditure is to gain weight, but then that's

548
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:14,400
Speaker 2: not the aim of the game. And the other thing

549
00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:17,800
Speaker 2: is when you lose weight, your body also reduces this metabolism, right,

550
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:20,840
Speaker 2: so that is going to be an issue. So the

551
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:25,120
Speaker 2: only way is to try and increase your metabolism temporarily.

552
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:28,200
Speaker 2: There's no there are no foods that can increase your metabolism.

553
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 2: Coffee probably does it briefly, Okay, chilis, don't do that, Okay, briefly.

554
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:37,320
Speaker 2: Exercise is probably the thing that most effectively increases your metabolism,

555
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:39,560
Speaker 2: at least temporarily, so when you're doing it, and then

556
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:41,320
Speaker 2: there is a tail off as you stop, so you're

557
00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:43,960
Speaker 2: continuing burning. That's the first thing. And second is building

558
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:47,360
Speaker 2: muscle mass, because your muscle, your lean mass, is more

559
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:50,399
Speaker 2: metabodically active than fat mass. So you could be of

560
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:54,280
Speaker 2: the same weight, but if you have more muscle in

561
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 2: your body as a ratio, then you will have a

562
00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:01,240
Speaker 2: higher metabolism. But your underlying metabolism. You divide your metabolism

563
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:04,879
Speaker 2: by the amount of muscle you're carrying. That cannot change

564
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:08,120
Speaker 2: that that won't change until you get older. So ultimately

565
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:09,879
Speaker 2: that's what you're trying to do. You're trying to say, well, okay,

566
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:12,600
Speaker 2: I've got a lower metabolism than you, for example, Well

567
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:14,399
Speaker 2: then maybe I need to make sure I gain a

568
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:17,760
Speaker 2: bit more muscle to sort of to sort of mitigate against.

569
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:20,399
Speaker 1: That card it. So, how does someone get rid of

570
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:22,000
Speaker 1: that stubborn belly fat?

571
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:27,960
Speaker 2: See, there's an excellent question. And you cannot direct where

572
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:30,639
Speaker 2: you lose fat. It's very very very very very frustrating.

573
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:32,439
Speaker 2: So you know, you go to classes and there's booty

574
00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:35,960
Speaker 2: busting and there's whatever you and and you know what

575
00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:38,800
Speaker 2: the deal is, the only way to get rid of

576
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:42,080
Speaker 2: the belly fat is to eat less and probably exercise

577
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:44,680
Speaker 2: more as well. And people are going whatever, I'm coming

578
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:46,520
Speaker 2: onto this podcast to hear that it is because it's

579
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:50,200
Speaker 2: because it's it's physics. Okay, it's difficult to do, but

580
00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:54,360
Speaker 2: it's physics. No, your weight will go on to where

581
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:58,680
Speaker 2: genetically it's going to go and will come off from that.

582
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:00,600
Speaker 2: You know, what the size of your boob for society

583
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:02,960
Speaker 2: of your bum, what's the size of your belly? People

584
00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:06,040
Speaker 2: wish they could direct where they get the weight loss from.

585
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:08,000
Speaker 2: I want it from my tummy. You know. For example,

586
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:10,400
Speaker 2: when I gain weight, I know I get a bit joury. Okay,

587
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 2: this is where it goes on first. My wife always

588
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:15,160
Speaker 2: tells me why, no clue, no clue, And it's also

589
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:17,400
Speaker 2: it does go off first when I begin to lose weight.

590
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 2: But so it's very difficult to get rid of the

591
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 2: stubborn fat by trying to do situps. But what you

592
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:25,520
Speaker 2: have to do is you do actually have to sort

593
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:28,600
Speaker 2: of shift your eating patterns in order to lose belly fat.

594
00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:31,600
Speaker 1: Let's talk about the genetics piece, because I think that's

595
00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:35,959
Speaker 1: the hard part. If you're predisposed because of your genetics

596
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:38,400
Speaker 1: to being overweight, are you stuck?

597
00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:42,760
Speaker 2: If you are predisposed genetically to eating more because you

598
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 2: are more driven to food for a number of different reasons,

599
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:49,480
Speaker 2: then it will always be harder for you to lose weight. Okay,

600
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:52,320
Speaker 2: ultimately that is true, and there's no need to sugarcoat it.

601
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:56,040
Speaker 2: But I guess the analogy I'll use is this, I

602
00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:59,240
Speaker 2: will never ever be able to run as fast as

603
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:03,640
Speaker 2: you say bolt, okay, because it's my genes. But it

604
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:06,360
Speaker 2: doesn't mean that if I train, I won't run faster

605
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:08,920
Speaker 2: than I do now. So I think ultimately that's it, right.

606
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:11,600
Speaker 2: None of us here are gonna become an Olympic athlete.

607
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 2: But if we train, we'll get fitter, we'll get better.

608
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:17,200
Speaker 2: And so you've got to sort of deal with the

609
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:19,040
Speaker 2: genes you have. You can't blame it. You can blame

610
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:21,040
Speaker 2: your parents, that's where the genes have come from. But

611
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:23,240
Speaker 2: ultimately you deal with the hand of cards you have.

612
00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:24,920
Speaker 2: I wish I look like Brad Pitt, but there are

613
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:27,719
Speaker 2: many many reasons why that's not gonna happen, right, And

614
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:30,280
Speaker 2: so you deal with the hand of cards you are

615
00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:35,160
Speaker 2: dealt But even with a more difficult hand of cards,

616
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:37,720
Speaker 2: so to speak, a more difficult set of genes, when

617
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:39,840
Speaker 2: it comes to being overweight, it doesn't mean that you

618
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:40,840
Speaker 2: can't do anything about it.

619
00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:44,520
Speaker 1: What are you seeing in terms of gene limitations? Do

620
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:50,120
Speaker 1: you see demographics having certain gene limitations and drawbacks compared

621
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:53,720
Speaker 1: to others, Like I know as a South Asian man, generally,

622
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:56,960
Speaker 1: putting on way is easy. Building muscle is hard. And

623
00:30:57,040 --> 00:30:58,960
Speaker 1: a lot of South Asian men will have that conversation

624
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 1: with each other and say, hey, it's it's quite easy

625
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:04,640
Speaker 1: for us to be lean and skinny, but it's easy

626
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:06,320
Speaker 1: to put on weight around our stomach. Like you said,

627
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:08,560
Speaker 1: you put on what do you see when you look

628
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:10,920
Speaker 1: at the genes and the genetic research.

629
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:15,720
Speaker 2: So the genes telling us why people gain weight tend

630
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:18,600
Speaker 2: to be quite universal, so they're eating too much. Genes

631
00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:23,640
Speaker 2: where the different ethnicities come from comes into the consequences

632
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:27,160
Speaker 2: of gaining that weight. Yes, there's muscle building. That's you're right, right,

633
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 2: because Chinese people and ethnically am Chinese were smaller framed individuals.

634
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 2: We two cannot get that much weight, gain that much

635
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:36,240
Speaker 2: weight before we actually tilt into disease. So but the

636
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:40,280
Speaker 2: genes underlying why we eat are quite universal, okay, but

637
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:46,479
Speaker 2: why we get specific diseases very very genetically driven, very

638
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 2: ethnically driven. As you said, South Asian East Asians the moment,

639
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 2: we don't have to go anywhere close to a bmi

640
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 2: F thirty and we are suddenly increasing our risk of

641
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:59,680
Speaker 2: a number of different metabolic diseases. So we compared to

642
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:01,360
Speaker 2: white people who can always get a bit more weight,

643
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:03,920
Speaker 2: compared to Polynesians. A colleague of mine, actually, I was

644
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:07,720
Speaker 2: in New Zealand giving a lecture and I saw there's

645
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:11,120
Speaker 2: a big South Asian diaspora in New Zealand, and so

646
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:15,120
Speaker 2: I saw a diabetologist, a diabetes doctor who's who is

647
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:18,240
Speaker 2: South Asian giving a talk in which she was comparing

648
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:22,800
Speaker 2: BMI and rates of tape two diabetes in the local

649
00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:27,440
Speaker 2: Polynesian population versus the South. The South Asian diaspora and

650
00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 2: the local Polynesian population could get to something like nearly

651
00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:35,880
Speaker 2: twice the BMI before actually reaching the same risk of

652
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:39,400
Speaker 2: type two diabetes. It is down to I guess how

653
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:42,200
Speaker 2: much muscle you can put on a little bit, it's

654
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:44,560
Speaker 2: down to how much fat we all can store safely.

655
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:47,400
Speaker 2: And so that is a crucial bit of bit of information.

656
00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:50,320
Speaker 2: How much fat can you store safely? Can I store safely?

657
00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:53,560
Speaker 2: The safest place to store fat is in your fat cells. Okay,

658
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:55,600
Speaker 2: they're like balloons. They go bigger, they go smaller. You

659
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 2: don't gain fat cells boo boo, boo boo, but they

660
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:01,040
Speaker 2: get full. And the moment when they get full, that's

661
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:04,880
Speaker 2: when the fat goes into your liver, your muscles, places

662
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:08,240
Speaker 2: that are not designed to store fat in large amounts,

663
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:13,440
Speaker 2: and that's when you become ill. So that very very genetic.

664
00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:15,800
Speaker 2: And it also comes to body shape where you put

665
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:17,440
Speaker 2: your fat or some matters right, because then you can

666
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:19,920
Speaker 2: look at different populations and realize, oh, my god, all

667
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:22,840
Speaker 2: these people are completely different shapes they are because where

668
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:25,440
Speaker 2: you put your fat also influences how much fat you

669
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:29,000
Speaker 2: can sew safely, so that bit very genetic.

670
00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:32,920
Speaker 1: Yes, So if you could encourage people to change part

671
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:35,600
Speaker 1: of their diet, what should they be focused on and

672
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:37,960
Speaker 1: what are the mistakes that you think people are making

673
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:39,959
Speaker 1: right now when it comes to what we eat, what

674
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:42,240
Speaker 1: we put into our mouths, What are the mistakes people

675
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:43,920
Speaker 1: are making and what would you encourage people to think

676
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:44,640
Speaker 1: about differently?

677
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:49,200
Speaker 2: If it isn't calories, then it's very very culturally specific.

678
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:53,560
Speaker 2: But I think there's probably some universal rules in order

679
00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:55,200
Speaker 2: to fall you know, like a lot of South Asians

680
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:56,480
Speaker 2: what I mean, there are a lot of vegetarians in

681
00:33:56,520 --> 00:34:00,560
Speaker 2: South Asia. People in the Mediterranean eat Mediterranean diet. Try

682
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:03,160
Speaker 2: delivering a Mediterranean diet to Texans. That's just not going

683
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:06,320
Speaker 2: to happen. So culturally it does make a difference. I

684
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:10,160
Speaker 2: do think there's some simp relatively simple quote unquote rules.

685
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:11,920
Speaker 2: I hate to use the word rules. I think we

686
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:14,560
Speaker 2: need to eat enough protein. I think most importantly so

687
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:17,200
Speaker 2: I think about sixteen percent of the energy in your

688
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:19,880
Speaker 2: diet needs to come from protein. It is possible to

689
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:23,040
Speaker 2: eat too much because we have to use the protein

690
00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:25,600
Speaker 2: we eat. If we don't use it, we don't store protein. Okay.

691
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:28,160
Speaker 2: All the muscles in us, all the protein in our

692
00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:30,759
Speaker 2: body is active. So if you eat a lot of

693
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:34,680
Speaker 2: protein but don't use it, it gets converted to fat. Okay,

694
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:37,000
Speaker 2: and then it begins to stress out your kidneys and

695
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:39,719
Speaker 2: stuff as well. Right, you and your liver unless you're

696
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:41,760
Speaker 2: lifting or doing someone or doing something else. So sixteen

697
00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:46,480
Speaker 2: percent protein, okay. We need to eat way more fiber,

698
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:48,880
Speaker 2: way more fiber. We need to double the amount of

699
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:51,640
Speaker 2: fiber we come we eat. Fiber only comes from fruit

700
00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:54,040
Speaker 2: and vegetables, so we pretty much need to double the

701
00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:56,719
Speaker 2: amount of fruit and vegetables that we that we actually eat,

702
00:34:56,920 --> 00:35:00,520
Speaker 2: and we probably need to limit the free show we

703
00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:05,640
Speaker 2: eat now. Free sugars are sugars, sugar anything that's been

704
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:08,400
Speaker 2: detached from fibers. So orange juice is a free sugar,

705
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:12,600
Speaker 2: honey is a free sugar, Maple syrup is a free sugar.

706
00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:15,520
Speaker 2: We probably need all the good stuff, all the good stuff,

707
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:17,200
Speaker 2: but that the sugar is all the same. It tastes

708
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:19,120
Speaker 2: nicer for any number of different reasons. But all the

709
00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:21,719
Speaker 2: good stuff you probably needs a limited limited to five

710
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:24,520
Speaker 2: percent of energy or less. Now, if you take those

711
00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:29,120
Speaker 2: three numbers right, sixteen percent of protein, thirty grams, double

712
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:32,799
Speaker 2: the amount of fiber, and keep your free sugars. You

713
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:34,560
Speaker 2: can eat as much fruit and vegetables as you want,

714
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:37,160
Speaker 2: but free sugars from five percent. Unless you can deploy

715
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:40,160
Speaker 2: it to any culture. Because the protein I'm not only

716
00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:42,359
Speaker 2: talking steaks, right, I mean this is what people think

717
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:44,640
Speaker 2: here when I say protein steaks, But no, I mean

718
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:47,960
Speaker 2: tofu beans. It doesn't matter the source of the protein.

719
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:50,600
Speaker 2: Those are the three numbers I would use. Deploy it

720
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:53,520
Speaker 2: to your culture, your type of diet, you you wish

721
00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:55,719
Speaker 2: to actually eat. Then obviously you can tweak it. But

722
00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:58,280
Speaker 2: I think if you actually focus on those three numbers,

723
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:01,320
Speaker 2: I think it's your diet automatically become healthier.

724
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:03,719
Speaker 1: So sixteen percent protein, thirty.

725
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:06,520
Speaker 2: Percent thirty grams fiber thirty grams, so double the amount

726
00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:09,399
Speaker 2: of fibre on average. On average in the United States

727
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:11,520
Speaker 2: and North America, and in the United States and in

728
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:14,560
Speaker 2: the UK, we're probably only having fifteen grams of fiber

729
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:17,480
Speaker 2: a day. It's difficult. I think this is part of

730
00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:21,080
Speaker 2: the problem of focusing on calories, is that what does

731
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:23,520
Speaker 2: that mean when I tell you sixteen percent protein and

732
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:27,200
Speaker 2: what have you. So I do these things. I speak

733
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:29,640
Speaker 2: to to people like you, I speak to industry. I

734
00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:32,279
Speaker 2: do this to try and push back and say, can

735
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:35,200
Speaker 2: we highlight different things on your prepackaged food? I mean

736
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 2: highlighting the calories useless, right, Whereas if you highlight how

737
00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:41,080
Speaker 2: much protein it is, how much fiber is in, and

738
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:43,800
Speaker 2: how much free sugar is in a traffic light system

739
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:46,120
Speaker 2: or something, I think that's easier for you to actually

740
00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:46,759
Speaker 2: to actually do.

741
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:49,440
Speaker 1: Let's actually talk about that. So we had to go

742
00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:51,759
Speaker 1: do some shopping, yes, which my wife will be very

743
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:54,440
Speaker 1: mad at me for because I've brought things into this

744
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:57,160
Speaker 1: house that she would never allow me to have in

745
00:36:57,200 --> 00:36:59,040
Speaker 1: the house. Okay, and so I'm going to make sure

746
00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:01,600
Speaker 1: that I give this out to someone else afterwards, but

747
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:03,080
Speaker 1: don't give it to me. She thinks I've been eating

748
00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:05,120
Speaker 1: and she'll be mad. But we brought in some products

749
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:08,160
Speaker 1: that people are eating because I think partly the issue

750
00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:10,520
Speaker 1: is when you go out and you buy something once

751
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:13,200
Speaker 1: you're educated. So my wife trained me in this, and

752
00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:15,000
Speaker 1: I want to help pass it on and learn from

753
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:17,760
Speaker 1: you as well in how to actually read food labels

754
00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:20,000
Speaker 1: because I used to just be like, yeah, that's fifty galleries.

755
00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:22,120
Speaker 1: I'll have that that's one hundred galleries. It's easy. So

756
00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:25,279
Speaker 1: I'm going to throw you some products, and you know,

757
00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:28,000
Speaker 1: you can tell us whether this is actually healthy or not,

758
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:29,920
Speaker 1: and just walk us through all the packaging on the

759
00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:31,200
Speaker 1: front and the bat.

760
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:35,120
Speaker 2: So a couple of things about this. So before we start,

761
00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:38,600
Speaker 2: I think I see where this is going. Right. One

762
00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:42,160
Speaker 2: of the things that annoys me the most about food

763
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:47,000
Speaker 2: and advertising for food is the health halo. Right, this

764
00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:49,200
Speaker 2: is what we're talking about, the health halo. No one

765
00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:53,680
Speaker 2: thinks that drinking Coca cola and eating things is healthy

766
00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:55,200
Speaker 2: for you, but we do it because there's a treat.

767
00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:56,560
Speaker 2: We do it. But I'm not thinking I'm having a

768
00:37:56,560 --> 00:37:59,640
Speaker 2: health drink, and so most of us take the cautions.

769
00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:03,359
Speaker 2: Now if you no one thinks that when you get

770
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:07,480
Speaker 2: a many totilla chip brands are available. Let's look at

771
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:10,680
Speaker 2: this one. First of all, it's green in packaging. It

772
00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:14,920
Speaker 2: has this I am green, Okay from all the things. Okay,

773
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:18,880
Speaker 2: Totia style protein chips. What the freaking hell is that?

774
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:22,520
Speaker 2: That's a fac Let's see where the protein comes from? Okay,

775
00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:24,080
Speaker 2: where I don't know. Does it tell you where the

776
00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:30,080
Speaker 2: protein comes from? They added milk protein, isolate way protein,

777
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:33,759
Speaker 2: so they're trying to increase the amount of protein you

778
00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:37,200
Speaker 2: actually get and so hence they're telling you that this

779
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:41,560
Speaker 2: is a healthier option. But you're still eating a totilla chip. Right.

780
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:44,879
Speaker 2: If you look at the it's still fried, right it is.

781
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:47,279
Speaker 2: Let's have a look at the back here. I'm not

782
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:49,400
Speaker 2: it should be fried. I mean sometimes they bake it,

783
00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:53,759
Speaker 2: I guess, but totias tend to be fried. Oh, this

784
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:57,520
Speaker 2: one says it's baked. Okay, so that does make a difference,

785
00:38:57,680 --> 00:38:59,960
Speaker 2: but it is still it is still But they're trying

786
00:38:59,960 --> 00:39:02,040
Speaker 2: to sell this a health food, okay.

787
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:03,760
Speaker 1: And you would say it's not a health food.

788
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:09,400
Speaker 2: I am not anti tortilla chips, but I know why

789
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:11,759
Speaker 2: they've done that. The packaging as they've done here so

790
00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:13,759
Speaker 2: people will go and says, oh, these are terrible with

791
00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:16,680
Speaker 2: tea chips. I'm gonna buy this one because these are

792
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:18,200
Speaker 2: going to be totia chips that are going to be

793
00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:20,520
Speaker 2: better for me, because it's in a green packaging and

794
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:23,400
Speaker 2: because it's this high protein, high protein for it. So

795
00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:26,399
Speaker 2: I don't know, you know, it's still a totia chip.

796
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:28,799
Speaker 2: And ultimately, so this is the kind of thing.

797
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:31,520
Speaker 1: What is the difference between baked and fried? Because I

798
00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:33,200
Speaker 1: don't I speak to a lot of people about this,

799
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:36,080
Speaker 1: and I don't think they people even think to think

800
00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:36,480
Speaker 1: about that.

801
00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:41,040
Speaker 2: So baked would mean that you use less oil, okay,

802
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:44,719
Speaker 2: And because things like tortilla chips and potato chips and

803
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:48,120
Speaker 2: all the kinds of things you you get are very porous,

804
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:50,040
Speaker 2: so in other words, they absorb a lot of fat

805
00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:53,279
Speaker 2: to crisp up. Okay, a fried to tia will taste

806
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:55,560
Speaker 2: better than a baked to tia, So undoubtedly they'll have

807
00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:57,640
Speaker 2: they'll have more, more, more fat. I'm not saying that

808
00:39:57,640 --> 00:39:59,560
Speaker 2: this isn't slightly better for you. It's still not a

809
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:01,960
Speaker 2: health food though, So that's the difference. The difference is

810
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:05,279
Speaker 2: that when you fry something, it more the fat gets

811
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:07,120
Speaker 2: absorbed into it, whereas you bake it, you sort of

812
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:08,839
Speaker 2: you do put oil in it. You have to because

813
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:10,640
Speaker 2: otherwise it's like using an air fry. Why do you

814
00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:12,440
Speaker 2: use an air fry? Use an air fry because you

815
00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:15,400
Speaker 2: put in a little bit of oil, it then heats

816
00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:17,440
Speaker 2: upthing oil and then misss the oil. So so that

817
00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:20,000
Speaker 2: what you're doing is you're frying with less oil. That's

818
00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:22,640
Speaker 2: why you're getting You're getting less of the fat that

819
00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:25,040
Speaker 2: that that that are actually out there.

820
00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:27,040
Speaker 1: Got it? Okay, I'm going to pull out some more

821
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:28,640
Speaker 1: a lot of bags of chips in it.

822
00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:37,479
Speaker 2: But oh, all right, so this is shredded wheat. Okay,

823
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:39,800
Speaker 2: let's have a look at this. Actually, now they're always

824
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:42,439
Speaker 2: oh wait a minute, this is so if you look

825
00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:44,600
Speaker 2: at so a couple of things before we go to

826
00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:47,919
Speaker 2: the back. Whenever you look at a cereal, you see here,

827
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:50,640
Speaker 2: for example, in the front, berries.

828
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:53,560
Speaker 1: Right, no one ever does no one ever does it.

829
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:55,319
Speaker 2: I mean I have shredded right. I'm not I'm not

830
00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:57,279
Speaker 2: against this, but either do you know what these things

831
00:40:57,320 --> 00:41:00,560
Speaker 2: are called within the within the field of sort of

832
00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:07,560
Speaker 2: food science, these are called incidental virtuous foods. Okay, So

833
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:10,239
Speaker 2: someone did an experiment where what they did was they

834
00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:12,279
Speaker 2: ask a few thousand people, all right, and they put

835
00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:14,680
Speaker 2: a burger, just a normal standard burger, and they ask

836
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:18,279
Speaker 2: everyone to sort of estimate how many calories are in

837
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:20,800
Speaker 2: the burger. And you know, obviously you get people getting

838
00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:23,719
Speaker 2: it right, people getting it completely wrong. Then they took

839
00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:27,240
Speaker 2: the burger and they put a stick of celery next

840
00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:30,319
Speaker 2: to the burger. That stick of celery, Sam burger. That

841
00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:36,120
Speaker 2: stick of celery automatically made everyone lower on average their

842
00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:41,480
Speaker 2: calorie estimates by ten percent, just the presence of it. Now,

843
00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:43,799
Speaker 2: if you, in fact, we'll go back to that, we'll

844
00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:46,239
Speaker 2: go back to the chip. Okay. So here it's a

845
00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:50,839
Speaker 2: toutilla chip. And obviously there is lime, there's chili. I

846
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:54,600
Speaker 2: appreciate they probably flavored it for some nervevertheless, but here

847
00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:57,239
Speaker 2: cereal is one of these things. That is why the

848
00:41:57,280 --> 00:42:01,480
Speaker 2: berries are there. Go into your favorite supermarket. Look, anything

849
00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:04,040
Speaker 2: you buy. Once again, this is not anti shredded wheat. Okay,

850
00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:07,279
Speaker 2: anything you buy, they'll always have these things because it

851
00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:11,839
Speaker 2: automatically makes it a virtuous food. Why do people when

852
00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:15,239
Speaker 2: you watch advertis or something, why is there a little

853
00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:17,960
Speaker 2: bit of coriander, a bit of watercress, you know over

854
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:23,319
Speaker 2: the steak? Like really it is incidental virtuous feets. Okay,

855
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:24,520
Speaker 2: So that's that's the first thing.

856
00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:25,759
Speaker 1: Great.

857
00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:27,879
Speaker 2: Now, now if you're don't look in the back, let's

858
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:29,719
Speaker 2: look at the sugar. I mean, this may be perfectly healthy,

859
00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:32,160
Speaker 2: I'm not entirely sure. Okay, soon as this has no

860
00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:36,120
Speaker 2: added sugar, which is fine, which is good. So I

861
00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:38,719
Speaker 2: do think that that's the one thing you want to

862
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:39,440
Speaker 2: you want to look at.

863
00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:40,760
Speaker 1: So that's when we're reading a label.

864
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:42,520
Speaker 2: When you're reading a label, what do you want to

865
00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:44,680
Speaker 2: focus on? Now, clearly this is shredded wheat. I'm not

866
00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:46,880
Speaker 2: eating this for protein, okay, so you can look at

867
00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:48,480
Speaker 2: the back of the protein. But the amount of protein

868
00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:55,120
Speaker 2: on here or where does it say polyonsaturate? Where's the protein? Oh? No,

869
00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:58,200
Speaker 2: there is protein. So seven grams of seven grams of proteins.

870
00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:00,520
Speaker 2: That's quite high, surprisingly high for the amount of stuff

871
00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:02,400
Speaker 2: that is here. What you want to do, however, on

872
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:04,399
Speaker 2: this is not worry too much about the protein because

873
00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:07,440
Speaker 2: you're eating a shredded beat, is to look at the sugar, because,

874
00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:09,640
Speaker 2: oh my god, I mean, if you actually look at

875
00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:12,640
Speaker 2: some of the cereals, including some varieties of shredded beat,

876
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:14,560
Speaker 2: you may as well be eating a chocolate bar. As

877
00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:16,719
Speaker 2: far as I can gather, the amount of sugar, the

878
00:43:16,719 --> 00:43:18,360
Speaker 2: amount of sugar that that that's in there. So this

879
00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:22,000
Speaker 2: you would look at it and broadly speaking, is probably

880
00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:25,319
Speaker 2: a relatively healthy thing to eat, got it, except for

881
00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:26,359
Speaker 2: the incidental vigtets fee.

882
00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:30,160
Speaker 1: All right, very good? Well, you spoke about this earlier,

883
00:43:30,239 --> 00:43:32,879
Speaker 1: so let's take a look at it. You might as well.

884
00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:39,360
Speaker 2: Okay, OJ, Now what makes it light? Very interesting?

885
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:41,040
Speaker 1: So let me just Seeah, what does it say on it?

886
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:43,319
Speaker 2: Tell us it's an orange juice. But that tells us

887
00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:46,560
Speaker 2: fifty percent less sugars and calories than OJ. Then how

888
00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:49,640
Speaker 2: did they make it? Because OJ is OJ should be OJ.

889
00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:52,759
Speaker 2: You should take juice, you squeeze it out, maybe you

890
00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:55,080
Speaker 2: put some heat in it to make sure it lasts longer.

891
00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:57,239
Speaker 2: What have they done to it to reduce the.

892
00:43:57,239 --> 00:44:00,000
Speaker 1: Amount of sugar and calorie?

893
00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:03,840
Speaker 2: Ah? So what they've done here, first of all, is

894
00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:06,400
Speaker 2: they have concentrated the orange juice, so notwids. They have

895
00:44:06,600 --> 00:44:08,720
Speaker 2: just this is an effect orange juice mixed with water.

896
00:44:09,120 --> 00:44:11,360
Speaker 2: So can I say something? Can I please say something?

897
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:14,920
Speaker 2: Save your cash? Buy an actual bottle of If you

898
00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:16,920
Speaker 2: want to drink orange juice, buy an actual bottle of

899
00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:20,160
Speaker 2: orange juice and dilute it with water. Same effect, Because

900
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:23,200
Speaker 2: it says, yeah, the first thing on here is filtered water, first,

901
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:27,080
Speaker 2: ingred ingradied list. It's fine, okay, but now you're buying

902
00:44:27,080 --> 00:44:28,800
Speaker 2: half the amount of orange juice for the same amount

903
00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:31,280
Speaker 2: of cash, whereas you could buy exactly the same amount

904
00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:34,200
Speaker 2: of orange juice and use water. Now what else is there? Okay,

905
00:44:34,239 --> 00:44:37,840
Speaker 2: Now let's have a look. No pulp. Why is this

906
00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:40,680
Speaker 2: a good thing? So here's here's the issue with OJ. Right,

907
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:45,120
Speaker 2: So OJ, the full concentrated OJ has the same in

908
00:44:45,239 --> 00:44:47,040
Speaker 2: fact less, we'll read it out just to make sure.

909
00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:51,520
Speaker 2: So total carbohydrates here are ten percent. Okay, so so

910
00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:54,200
Speaker 2: five percent? So it has five percent because it's half

911
00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:57,920
Speaker 2: Coca cola. Has the sugar content about eleven percent okay,

912
00:44:57,960 --> 00:45:01,000
Speaker 2: in a in a can of Coca cola, so actually

913
00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:02,960
Speaker 2: has the same amount of sugar as Coca cola. This

914
00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:06,080
Speaker 2: is diluted. We've already established this, and it's the same sugar.

915
00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:08,440
Speaker 2: It's not because it's natural sugar. It's healthier for you.

916
00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:10,319
Speaker 2: You've squeezed it out of the you squeeze it out

917
00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:13,520
Speaker 2: of the orange. So the pulp was the only good

918
00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:15,799
Speaker 2: thing about this. There's probably vineamin c and stuff, but this,

919
00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:17,520
Speaker 2: the pulp was the only good thing because that was

920
00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:19,920
Speaker 2: the fiber. So what this has said is that we

921
00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:22,920
Speaker 2: have made extra sure there is no fiber in this

922
00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:26,160
Speaker 2: orange juice. That's what this is selling you. I have

923
00:45:26,239 --> 00:45:29,319
Speaker 2: no problems with ojas as a small thing, but people

924
00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:31,440
Speaker 2: think it's a health food, and people will then drink

925
00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:34,319
Speaker 2: a ton of this, and you have to treat it

926
00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:38,920
Speaker 2: like you're drinking a high sugar drink. Eat the orange,

927
00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:42,320
Speaker 2: because when you eat the orange, you're chewing it. There's fiber.

928
00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:46,279
Speaker 2: Your body takes longer to release the sugar exactly the

929
00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:48,359
Speaker 2: same amunt of sugar. Because orange juice actually comes from

930
00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:51,160
Speaker 2: comes from there. You get a lot more goodness out

931
00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:53,840
Speaker 2: of eating the orange. If you have to drink orange juice,

932
00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:57,520
Speaker 2: drink you know, do it in moderation. This is a

933
00:45:57,520 --> 00:46:00,520
Speaker 2: waste of money because as it says in about diluted

934
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:08,040
Speaker 2: orange juice, for Pitt's sake, all right, this is fun.

935
00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:14,120
Speaker 1: Let's because this.

936
00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:22,880
Speaker 2: Because are great. Where did you get these from? This

937
00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:27,879
Speaker 2: sense all from? I won't say now, no, just can

938
00:46:27,880 --> 00:46:31,520
Speaker 2: I please say dried apricots? These are wonderful for you, okay,

939
00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:34,719
Speaker 2: because obviously they're full of fiber and yeah, you might say,

940
00:46:34,719 --> 00:46:36,640
Speaker 2: well and behind sugar, yeah, but then they're all tied

941
00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:38,880
Speaker 2: up in the fiber. How much of your risks are

942
00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:41,720
Speaker 2: you really going to eat? Anyway? Wonderful for you? Okay,

943
00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:47,719
Speaker 2: you shouldn't need to enhance it with any probiotic apricots.

944
00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:52,920
Speaker 2: Now what have they made it? So probiotic means that's probiotic,

945
00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:56,640
Speaker 2: and that's probiotic, and probiotic is adding fiber. Probiotic is

946
00:46:56,680 --> 00:46:58,839
Speaker 2: taking the bugs. Because this is what confused me when

947
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:00,799
Speaker 2: I was looking at this. So this is probiotic because

948
00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:03,840
Speaker 2: they've taken normal apricots, which is full of fiber and

949
00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:07,520
Speaker 2: added bacteria. Now this sounds a bit dodgy because they're

950
00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:10,839
Speaker 2: telling me that they bugs cannot be alive. I don't

951
00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:13,600
Speaker 2: think because they're in this thing. What is the shoff

952
00:47:13,600 --> 00:47:17,160
Speaker 2: life for this? Okay, March twenty twenty six. It's sterile

953
00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:20,680
Speaker 2: right in here. So they say they've put the bugs in,

954
00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:24,399
Speaker 2: but the bugs cannot be alive. So it is not

955
00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:27,560
Speaker 2: going to be probiotic if the bugs are dead. And

956
00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:29,440
Speaker 2: they have to be dead because this thing is not

957
00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:33,359
Speaker 2: going to rot in a sealed container and it's good

958
00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:37,480
Speaker 2: till March twenty twenty six. So this the bugs have

959
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:41,000
Speaker 2: got to be alive. When you're eating yogurt yogurt, if

960
00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:45,080
Speaker 2: you're eating you know, kombucha, the bugs are alive. That

961
00:47:45,239 --> 00:47:47,879
Speaker 2: is why they work, because they pass. You need those

962
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:50,520
Speaker 2: actually to survive the gut and go in in order

963
00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:52,240
Speaker 2: to survive. These are dead bugs.

964
00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:57,719
Speaker 1: They will complete bs interesting. Wow wow, I love how

965
00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:02,359
Speaker 1: shock Right now, this is the last okay only other

966
00:48:02,440 --> 00:48:03,000
Speaker 1: versions of this.

967
00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:06,960
Speaker 2: Okay, litters, let me just let me see, let me

968
00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:09,480
Speaker 2: let me see what the back is preserving. So sixty

969
00:48:09,520 --> 00:48:14,120
Speaker 2: five grams Holy cow. All right, So this is a bar. Now,

970
00:48:14,120 --> 00:48:15,879
Speaker 2: I know what this is. This is for the gym bros. Right,

971
00:48:16,280 --> 00:48:18,920
Speaker 2: But but if you actually look at the first of all,

972
00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:21,160
Speaker 2: it tells you tomount a protein. So they're selling this

973
00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:24,320
Speaker 2: as a health food bar by its very definition, because

974
00:48:24,320 --> 00:48:26,120
Speaker 2: we're not. We're not dealing with it. But if you

975
00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:28,160
Speaker 2: actually look at the at the back, yes there's more

976
00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:31,279
Speaker 2: protein in it, okay for that, but it's twenty two

977
00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:37,560
Speaker 2: percent sugar. It's twenty two percent sugar okay, fourteen percent fat,

978
00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:40,600
Speaker 2: of which thirteen percent is saturated fat okay. And the

979
00:48:40,640 --> 00:48:45,640
Speaker 2: protein amount is thirteen percent protein. So actually I'm saying

980
00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:48,279
Speaker 2: we need sixteen percent. It's already below the actual what

981
00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:50,440
Speaker 2: you should be eating in your in your total that anyway,

982
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:53,239
Speaker 2: I don't understand this bar. I do understand it if

983
00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:56,800
Speaker 2: you are take taking it as a recovery bar fair. Okay,

984
00:48:57,000 --> 00:48:59,200
Speaker 2: if you've just done a workout, or if you're maybe

985
00:48:59,239 --> 00:49:01,520
Speaker 2: a cycling you you're trying to do that, I can

986
00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:05,000
Speaker 2: dig that. The problem is if it's there in a

987
00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:07,040
Speaker 2: supermarket shelf and you're coming and thinking this is going

988
00:49:07,080 --> 00:49:09,080
Speaker 2: to be healthy for me, but you're not working out,

989
00:49:09,080 --> 00:49:11,120
Speaker 2: you're not doing any buy and eat it. This is

990
00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:13,440
Speaker 2: far worse for you than eating a chocolate bar, unless

991
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:14,719
Speaker 2: you're exercising at the same time.

992
00:49:14,800 --> 00:49:17,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that sugar that's high twenty two, it's

993
00:49:17,960 --> 00:49:19,160
Speaker 1: really it's high.

994
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:20,799
Speaker 2: Oh my god, is this even edible?

995
00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:22,640
Speaker 1: I mean I used to so I used to eat

996
00:49:22,640 --> 00:49:26,120
Speaker 1: those nearly every day until I looked at the sack. No, no, no,

997
00:49:26,200 --> 00:49:28,200
Speaker 1: until I looked at it. Then you went, dude, yeah,

998
00:49:28,200 --> 00:49:29,759
Speaker 1: And I realize even when I am working out, I

999
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:30,080
Speaker 1: don't need.

1000
00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:32,480
Speaker 2: You don't need. I mean, yeah, you want, you want

1001
00:49:32,480 --> 00:49:32,960
Speaker 2: more protein.

1002
00:49:33,600 --> 00:49:35,640
Speaker 1: I've shifted to one that there's only one gram of

1003
00:49:35,640 --> 00:49:36,320
Speaker 1: sugar now.

1004
00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:38,160
Speaker 2: Because you do need some sugar. You need come carves.

1005
00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:42,120
Speaker 1: Obviously you do, but not that not that good analysis.

1006
00:49:42,120 --> 00:49:44,640
Speaker 1: So so we'll go through two questions. I have. One

1007
00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:48,560
Speaker 1: is how can people read food labels better? Okay, what

1008
00:49:48,600 --> 00:49:51,560
Speaker 1: were you doing? That was making it effective for you

1009
00:49:51,600 --> 00:49:54,239
Speaker 1: to figure it out that quickly because the challenges we

1010
00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:55,960
Speaker 1: have little time. We look at the back, there's like

1011
00:49:55,960 --> 00:49:58,000
Speaker 1: fifty ingredients.

1012
00:49:57,760 --> 00:50:00,319
Speaker 2: The major problem I have with this is this isn't

1013
00:50:00,320 --> 00:50:03,399
Speaker 2: a lack of information problem, because all the information is there,

1014
00:50:03,800 --> 00:50:05,920
Speaker 2: but you need right lights, I need to have my

1015
00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:08,759
Speaker 2: reading glasses with me. But what you would do, I

1016
00:50:08,760 --> 00:50:11,120
Speaker 2: think ultimately, in order to better do it, the industry

1017
00:50:11,160 --> 00:50:13,480
Speaker 2: needs to change what they label. But I don't have

1018
00:50:13,480 --> 00:50:15,400
Speaker 2: the power to do that. So I think what I

1019
00:50:15,440 --> 00:50:18,319
Speaker 2: would do is I would focus on, first of all,

1020
00:50:18,400 --> 00:50:20,760
Speaker 2: the amount of depending on what you're eating, the amount

1021
00:50:20,760 --> 00:50:22,720
Speaker 2: of protein, the amount of fiber did they put fiber

1022
00:50:22,719 --> 00:50:25,120
Speaker 2: they do put fiber, the amount of fiber that's actually

1023
00:50:25,120 --> 00:50:26,160
Speaker 2: in there, and the amount of.

1024
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:30,239
Speaker 1: Sugars protein, fiber sugar, protein fiber sugar, protein fiber sugar. Yes,

1025
00:50:30,239 --> 00:50:32,800
Speaker 1: And what you don't want is to see an equal

1026
00:50:32,880 --> 00:50:35,080
Speaker 1: balance of all three. You want to try and see

1027
00:50:35,080 --> 00:50:36,200
Speaker 1: the percentages.

1028
00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:37,920
Speaker 2: You said earlier exactly. That's what I would do.

1029
00:50:37,920 --> 00:50:40,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, And of course it won't be. You're not expecting

1030
00:50:40,280 --> 00:50:42,280
Speaker 1: to get all your protein from the bar anyway.

1031
00:50:42,360 --> 00:50:43,680
Speaker 2: No, So I think what you want to do as

1032
00:50:43,680 --> 00:50:47,040
Speaker 2: well is not concerned, okay, not obsessed about one item

1033
00:50:47,080 --> 00:50:49,640
Speaker 2: of food. What you should do is be thinking about

1034
00:50:49,640 --> 00:50:52,680
Speaker 2: your diet over a week. A week's a good period

1035
00:50:52,719 --> 00:50:55,360
Speaker 2: because their work days, their weekend days. You may have

1036
00:50:55,360 --> 00:50:57,600
Speaker 2: a birthday, you go to a restaurant for your friends

1037
00:50:57,640 --> 00:51:00,000
Speaker 2: and you're eating on the run or what have you.

1038
00:51:00,280 --> 00:51:04,000
Speaker 2: So over a week, how much protein, fiber and things

1039
00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:05,960
Speaker 2: have you been eating. That's better because then that allows

1040
00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:08,520
Speaker 2: you to go to the pub, the restaurants, your child's

1041
00:51:08,560 --> 00:51:10,600
Speaker 2: birthday and then then say, well, I had my child's

1042
00:51:10,600 --> 00:51:12,600
Speaker 2: birthday party last night, so I'm go to do something else.

1043
00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:15,840
Speaker 2: So you need to consider that, but over the context

1044
00:51:15,880 --> 00:51:19,560
Speaker 2: of a full week, rather than obsessing over one individual

1045
00:51:19,560 --> 00:51:21,040
Speaker 2: bar would be what I would say.

1046
00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:23,359
Speaker 1: And what are the three hidden ingredients that you think

1047
00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:26,080
Speaker 1: people should watch out for on food labels.

1048
00:51:26,360 --> 00:51:28,640
Speaker 2: I think sugar is probably the big the biggest thing

1049
00:51:28,680 --> 00:51:31,239
Speaker 2: to look for, because they My wife sent me to

1050
00:51:31,280 --> 00:51:33,279
Speaker 2: the supermarket to buy She goes, can you get me

1051
00:51:33,320 --> 00:51:36,000
Speaker 2: some beetroot? I want to make a salad, okay, And

1052
00:51:36,080 --> 00:51:38,319
Speaker 2: so I went into a supermarket chain in the UK

1053
00:51:38,440 --> 00:51:41,320
Speaker 2: and I bought their finest because I'm a mug Okay,

1054
00:51:41,480 --> 00:51:43,560
Speaker 2: I bought their finest item, and I brought it back

1055
00:51:43,560 --> 00:51:45,560
Speaker 2: and she yelled at me. She goes, did you see

1056
00:51:45,600 --> 00:51:48,279
Speaker 2: the amount of sugar on here? Why didn't you get

1057
00:51:48,280 --> 00:51:50,560
Speaker 2: the one made with vinegar? Why didn't you get me one?

1058
00:51:50,640 --> 00:51:53,239
Speaker 2: And so sugar is the thing that they shuffle in

1059
00:51:53,680 --> 00:51:57,600
Speaker 2: the most because it's so it improves the flavor so quickly,

1060
00:51:57,920 --> 00:52:01,120
Speaker 2: and they put it into a beetroot. It's a beetroot.

1061
00:52:01,200 --> 00:52:02,839
Speaker 2: Why do you have the boil it in sugar? It's

1062
00:52:02,880 --> 00:52:05,880
Speaker 2: completely ridiculous. Sugar is probably the big is the easiest

1063
00:52:05,920 --> 00:52:06,520
Speaker 2: thing to shovel in.

1064
00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:08,840
Speaker 1: So to watch that, how addictive is sugar?

1065
00:52:09,160 --> 00:52:11,319
Speaker 2: I don't think sugar is addictive. I don't think there

1066
00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:13,840
Speaker 2: is such a thing as food addiction. If you speak

1067
00:52:13,840 --> 00:52:18,320
Speaker 2: to addiction biologist, they do hijack certain pathways. Okay, so

1068
00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:20,919
Speaker 2: the part of the brain that makes things feel nice,

1069
00:52:20,920 --> 00:52:22,879
Speaker 2: you're rewarding part of the brain. It's the same part

1070
00:52:22,880 --> 00:52:24,400
Speaker 2: of the brain for everything. It doesn't matter if we're

1071
00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:27,279
Speaker 2: talking about food, sex, or drugs or alcohol. Okay, it

1072
00:52:27,360 --> 00:52:30,040
Speaker 2: hits the same place. The roots to it are different,

1073
00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:32,239
Speaker 2: but it's the same. It's the same part of the brain.

1074
00:52:32,719 --> 00:52:36,719
Speaker 2: And so I think that clearly sugar tickles the nice

1075
00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:39,040
Speaker 2: part of the brain, because why would it not. But

1076
00:52:39,160 --> 00:52:41,520
Speaker 2: it is not crack cocaine. People say it's worse for

1077
00:52:41,560 --> 00:52:44,360
Speaker 2: you that crack where it isn't okay because you clearly

1078
00:52:44,520 --> 00:52:47,640
Speaker 2: get used to it, you like it. There are addictive behaviors,

1079
00:52:48,239 --> 00:52:50,920
Speaker 2: but sugar in of itself is not addictive. If I

1080
00:52:51,000 --> 00:52:52,800
Speaker 2: took sugar away from you, you're not going to go

1081
00:52:52,840 --> 00:52:55,440
Speaker 2: into Kentucky. Okay, you're not. You might think, oh, I

1082
00:52:55,560 --> 00:52:57,520
Speaker 2: want to eat that and what have you. You're not.

1083
00:52:57,680 --> 00:53:00,440
Speaker 2: So it's not addictive, but we need to eat of it.

1084
00:53:00,680 --> 00:53:03,359
Speaker 2: And clearly there is an addictive behavior of getting used

1085
00:53:03,360 --> 00:53:04,719
Speaker 2: to eating sugars as well.

1086
00:53:05,160 --> 00:53:08,080
Speaker 1: Before we dive into the next moment, let's hear from

1087
00:53:08,120 --> 00:53:13,080
Speaker 1: our sponsors and back to our episode. Is healthier food

1088
00:53:13,320 --> 00:53:16,560
Speaker 1: more expensive to produce? No? What is the reason that

1089
00:53:16,600 --> 00:53:18,400
Speaker 1: healthy food has become expensive?

1090
00:53:18,480 --> 00:53:20,120
Speaker 2: So I think there's a marketing element to it. So

1091
00:53:20,120 --> 00:53:23,319
Speaker 2: therefore healthy food they can make money from it. But

1092
00:53:23,440 --> 00:53:26,480
Speaker 2: then what then happens is their cultural differences as well, right,

1093
00:53:26,520 --> 00:53:28,560
Speaker 2: Because then what happens is people say lentils are cheap,

1094
00:53:28,880 --> 00:53:31,520
Speaker 2: which is true, but that's a culturally specific thing. If

1095
00:53:31,560 --> 00:53:33,680
Speaker 2: you go to India, you got to sell. Everyone knows

1096
00:53:33,680 --> 00:53:36,040
Speaker 2: how to cook lentsol, So lentils are cheap because everyone

1097
00:53:36,080 --> 00:53:39,320
Speaker 2: can do it, but other things are not here okay

1098
00:53:39,400 --> 00:53:42,399
Speaker 2: here or in the UK for that matter. First of all,

1099
00:53:42,440 --> 00:53:44,160
Speaker 2: do people not a cook lentils who are not South

1100
00:53:44,200 --> 00:53:46,680
Speaker 2: Asian for example? That's the first thing. The second is

1101
00:53:47,320 --> 00:53:50,360
Speaker 2: it will always require half an hour on the electricity

1102
00:53:50,480 --> 00:53:52,759
Speaker 2: or gas, and it's always cheaper to stick a pre

1103
00:53:52,840 --> 00:53:56,000
Speaker 2: meal into the microwave and put two minutes. And in

1104
00:53:56,080 --> 00:53:57,880
Speaker 2: order to do so, you have to take the whole

1105
00:53:57,960 --> 00:54:00,759
Speaker 2: life cycle of the food and also the amount of

1106
00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:04,080
Speaker 2: time and effort and education you actually have about that

1107
00:54:04,120 --> 00:54:07,440
Speaker 2: specific food. So it's a holistic view of how expensive

1108
00:54:07,480 --> 00:54:07,800
Speaker 2: something is.

1109
00:54:07,880 --> 00:54:10,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, it could be expensive in terms of time as well.

1110
00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:12,600
Speaker 2: Exactly ye some people don't some people don't have the time.

1111
00:54:12,680 --> 00:54:14,600
Speaker 2: And culturally it does make a difference because like lentils

1112
00:54:14,680 --> 00:54:18,640
Speaker 2: ar cheap obviously, and you go to some country exactly

1113
00:54:18,840 --> 00:54:22,319
Speaker 2: those are. But if you buy them from scratch, you

1114
00:54:22,320 --> 00:54:24,160
Speaker 2: need to know how to soak them overnight. You need

1115
00:54:24,160 --> 00:54:26,120
Speaker 2: tom boil them for experiod of time. And if this

1116
00:54:26,200 --> 00:54:28,520
Speaker 2: is part of your culture and you always have always

1117
00:54:28,520 --> 00:54:31,040
Speaker 2: a beans pre ready to cook, and everything is ready perfect,

1118
00:54:31,080 --> 00:54:33,920
Speaker 2: and you have the spice makes ready perfect. But for

1119
00:54:33,960 --> 00:54:35,040
Speaker 2: a lot of us that's not the case.

1120
00:54:35,160 --> 00:54:35,840
Speaker 1: Great answers.

1121
00:54:35,840 --> 00:54:36,239
Speaker 2: That was fun.

1122
00:54:36,280 --> 00:54:38,840
Speaker 1: I'm glad we did that. That was really cool. I

1123
00:54:38,840 --> 00:54:41,200
Speaker 1: wanted to ask about this idea of you say that

1124
00:54:41,239 --> 00:54:45,640
Speaker 1: weight is biology not laziness. Let's talk about that.

1125
00:54:45,719 --> 00:54:49,200
Speaker 2: Okay. I think weight is more biology than people think.

1126
00:54:49,360 --> 00:54:51,839
Speaker 2: How about that? Okay, So if we actually look at

1127
00:54:51,880 --> 00:54:56,600
Speaker 2: the genetics heritability, okay, so what percentage does genetics actually

1128
00:54:56,640 --> 00:54:58,879
Speaker 2: play into body weight? And we can use that by

1129
00:54:58,880 --> 00:55:01,920
Speaker 2: looking at twins identical because of non identical twins, then

1130
00:55:01,960 --> 00:55:06,200
Speaker 2: actually the heritability of fat mass of weight is around

1131
00:55:06,280 --> 00:55:09,040
Speaker 2: forty to seventy percent. So numbers, let's take the average

1132
00:55:09,080 --> 00:55:11,520
Speaker 2: fifty to fifty. So fifty percent is going to be

1133
00:55:11,600 --> 00:55:15,000
Speaker 2: driven by a biology and fifty percent by non biology.

1134
00:55:15,160 --> 00:55:18,520
Speaker 2: And in that non biology, it could be socioeconomic status,

1135
00:55:18,600 --> 00:55:20,800
Speaker 2: how rich or poor you are, It could be your culture,

1136
00:55:20,840 --> 00:55:23,000
Speaker 2: it could be any number of different things. So weight

1137
00:55:23,080 --> 00:55:25,880
Speaker 2: is probably about fifty percent. Now, within that fifty percent,

1138
00:55:26,200 --> 00:55:28,919
Speaker 2: it does clay a pretty powerful role. And I guess

1139
00:55:28,920 --> 00:55:31,440
Speaker 2: the one example I'll give is this. We do not

1140
00:55:31,680 --> 00:55:34,680
Speaker 2: gain or lose weight overnight. We just we just don't.

1141
00:55:34,719 --> 00:55:36,239
Speaker 2: Any meal, no matter how big, is not going to

1142
00:55:36,239 --> 00:55:38,880
Speaker 2: percent change your body weight. Okay, your body weight is

1143
00:55:38,880 --> 00:55:41,880
Speaker 2: the function of thousands of feeding the events that have

1144
00:55:41,920 --> 00:55:44,560
Speaker 2: happened over the past couple of years. Okay, that's okay.

1145
00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:48,120
Speaker 2: Now imagine, however, if because of your genetic hand of

1146
00:55:48,160 --> 00:55:50,600
Speaker 2: cards that you've been given, you are slightly less likely

1147
00:55:50,640 --> 00:55:52,799
Speaker 2: to say no five percent. That's kind of scale we're

1148
00:55:52,800 --> 00:55:55,160
Speaker 2: looking at. So one out of every twenty times you say,

1149
00:55:55,200 --> 00:55:56,759
Speaker 2: hang it, I'm going to have the extra slice of

1150
00:55:56,800 --> 00:56:00,239
Speaker 2: pizza or what have you. Five percent over thousands of

1151
00:56:00,239 --> 00:56:03,760
Speaker 2: feeding events is hundreds of thousands of calories. So over

1152
00:56:03,800 --> 00:56:05,880
Speaker 2: the period of time that food intake does begin to

1153
00:56:05,880 --> 00:56:08,200
Speaker 2: influence your body weight. It is not a choice. In

1154
00:56:08,280 --> 00:56:11,680
Speaker 2: casino terms, the house will always win if the die

1155
00:56:11,880 --> 00:56:14,319
Speaker 2: is weighted and set a way. In that sense, there

1156
00:56:14,360 --> 00:56:17,520
Speaker 2: is a lot of biology. But clearly, if you take

1157
00:56:17,600 --> 00:56:21,560
Speaker 2: the top twenty percent socio economically versus the bottom twenty percent,

1158
00:56:21,920 --> 00:56:24,760
Speaker 2: the bottom twenty percent are more than twice as likely

1159
00:56:25,120 --> 00:56:28,080
Speaker 2: to have obesity and most diseases to be fair as

1160
00:56:28,120 --> 00:56:30,960
Speaker 2: the top twenty percent. There's no genetic difference between rich

1161
00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:33,799
Speaker 2: and poor people. It's an accident of birth, and so

1162
00:56:34,239 --> 00:56:38,680
Speaker 2: there your environment really really really does matter. So even

1163
00:56:38,680 --> 00:56:43,480
Speaker 2: with the same genes, your same genetic burden and drive.

1164
00:56:44,120 --> 00:56:47,920
Speaker 2: If I live in a leafy Cambridge village, which I

1165
00:56:48,040 --> 00:56:50,720
Speaker 2: live so far out that delivery will deliver to my village,

1166
00:56:50,800 --> 00:56:53,160
Speaker 2: and so this is a true story. Okay, Then if

1167
00:56:53,160 --> 00:56:56,440
Speaker 2: I'm hungry and I don't have a corner shop, I

1168
00:56:56,480 --> 00:56:58,640
Speaker 2: have to drive to the next village. If I'm hungry

1169
00:56:58,640 --> 00:57:01,839
Speaker 2: on a Sunday night, well either I have to get

1170
00:57:01,880 --> 00:57:03,480
Speaker 2: in my car and drive somewhere, or I have to

1171
00:57:03,520 --> 00:57:06,399
Speaker 2: open my fridge and eat the carrots or homostice my fridge. Right.

1172
00:57:06,480 --> 00:57:08,279
Speaker 2: Whereas if I lived in a city, if I live

1173
00:57:08,320 --> 00:57:10,880
Speaker 2: above a chicken shop, if I live above, then exactly

1174
00:57:10,960 --> 00:57:14,040
Speaker 2: the same genetic drive will make me go and I'll

1175
00:57:14,040 --> 00:57:16,560
Speaker 2: make different decisions the different things that we made. So

1176
00:57:16,880 --> 00:57:20,480
Speaker 2: there's a huge genetic drive, undoubtedly, But the environment also matters.

1177
00:57:20,520 --> 00:57:22,600
Speaker 1: How much is willpower involved?

1178
00:57:22,680 --> 00:57:23,600
Speaker 2: What is willpower?

1179
00:57:23,800 --> 00:57:24,360
Speaker 1: What is it?

1180
00:57:24,720 --> 00:57:26,880
Speaker 2: I think will power is an interesting term. I think

1181
00:57:26,960 --> 00:57:29,160
Speaker 2: that if we're talking about food intake, which means to

1182
00:57:29,200 --> 00:57:31,880
Speaker 2: say that, oh, I'm not gonna eat the chocolate bar

1183
00:57:32,000 --> 00:57:35,080
Speaker 2: or pizza or something today, I think willpower is simply

1184
00:57:35,160 --> 00:57:38,920
Speaker 2: the physiological manifestation of how much you want that item

1185
00:57:38,960 --> 00:57:41,280
Speaker 2: of food and whether or not you say yes or no.

1186
00:57:41,520 --> 00:57:44,880
Speaker 2: So willpower is simply part of the biology that drives

1187
00:57:44,920 --> 00:57:48,560
Speaker 2: you or stops you from from eating it. So that's

1188
00:57:48,600 --> 00:57:50,440
Speaker 2: what I think is will power. So if that plays

1189
00:57:50,440 --> 00:57:52,120
Speaker 2: a role, yes, will power plays a role, because it's

1190
00:57:52,120 --> 00:57:53,000
Speaker 2: part of your biology.

1191
00:57:53,040 --> 00:57:55,120
Speaker 1: It's almost like a sense of I like the word

1192
00:57:55,200 --> 00:57:59,240
Speaker 1: discipline more so it's someone who grew up eating and

1193
00:57:59,240 --> 00:58:01,360
Speaker 1: I've spoken about this on the show before. I literally

1194
00:58:01,400 --> 00:58:04,360
Speaker 1: grew up eating every day a chocolate bar, a chocolate biscuit,

1195
00:58:04,400 --> 00:58:07,520
Speaker 1: a chocolate yogurt, and a chocolate ice cream every day, Okay,

1196
00:58:07,720 --> 00:58:09,920
Speaker 1: because that's how I was raised in my house. And

1197
00:58:09,960 --> 00:58:12,240
Speaker 1: I was overweight growing up, and then my teens I

1198
00:58:12,280 --> 00:58:14,560
Speaker 1: started playing a lot of sports. I lost lots of weight,

1199
00:58:15,560 --> 00:58:17,920
Speaker 1: but then still, even when I was at university, I

1200
00:58:18,040 --> 00:58:21,320
Speaker 1: drank a sugary soda every single day, and I had

1201
00:58:21,320 --> 00:58:24,440
Speaker 1: a chocolate bar every day. And because of my genetics

1202
00:58:24,520 --> 00:58:27,920
Speaker 1: or my metabolism, I was lean throughout college and all

1203
00:58:27,960 --> 00:58:30,600
Speaker 1: the rest of it. But I wasn't doing anything healthy.

1204
00:58:31,440 --> 00:58:34,520
Speaker 1: And what I found was that I had to create

1205
00:58:34,560 --> 00:58:37,400
Speaker 1: discipline at one point in my life, because my natural

1206
00:58:37,400 --> 00:58:41,200
Speaker 1: instinct is to want sugar to solve my fatigue or

1207
00:58:41,320 --> 00:58:43,400
Speaker 1: energy or whatever it may be, because that's what I've

1208
00:58:43,400 --> 00:58:46,120
Speaker 1: been taught, or at least trained to believe, is that

1209
00:58:46,480 --> 00:58:50,440
Speaker 1: sugar will solve my lack of energy right now, not

1210
00:58:50,480 --> 00:58:53,120
Speaker 1: realizing that actually I could get that from a healthier place.

1211
00:58:53,280 --> 00:58:55,160
Speaker 2: I mean, I guess discipline is one is one way.

1212
00:58:55,200 --> 00:58:56,920
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't like the term lifestyle. A lot

1213
00:58:56,920 --> 00:58:58,760
Speaker 2: of people go to this as a lifestyle problem because

1214
00:58:58,800 --> 00:59:02,320
Speaker 2: lifestyle means choice. But I do think that many of

1215
00:59:02,360 --> 00:59:05,560
Speaker 2: us need to make behavioral changes. So that's the terminology

1216
00:59:05,560 --> 00:59:07,800
Speaker 2: and I'd like to use because ultimately, this is this

1217
00:59:07,840 --> 00:59:10,320
Speaker 2: is the issue. It doesn't matter whether or not the

1218
00:59:10,360 --> 00:59:13,840
Speaker 2: genetic drives makes it easier or less easy for you

1219
00:59:13,920 --> 00:59:16,960
Speaker 2: to lose weight. It doesn't matter ultimately because if you

1220
00:59:17,000 --> 00:59:19,760
Speaker 2: carry too much fat, you're the one that's going to suffer. Right.

1221
00:59:19,960 --> 00:59:23,480
Speaker 2: So I think life's unfair, okay, and sometimes biologically unfair

1222
00:59:23,560 --> 00:59:25,720
Speaker 2: and what have you. So I think what we've got

1223
00:59:25,760 --> 00:59:27,600
Speaker 2: to do is for a lot of us, we do

1224
00:59:27,680 --> 00:59:30,760
Speaker 2: need to think about behavioral changes. And you're absolutely right,

1225
00:59:30,800 --> 00:59:32,960
Speaker 2: we need to be more educated about certain things. We

1226
00:59:33,000 --> 00:59:35,280
Speaker 2: need to just this conversation we've had, right, I mean,

1227
00:59:35,400 --> 00:59:37,920
Speaker 2: just look look looking at these things, and if you

1228
00:59:38,000 --> 00:59:41,160
Speaker 2: then begin to notice, so even just what I've said,

1229
00:59:41,160 --> 00:59:43,680
Speaker 2: if you notice a couple of these little things and

1230
00:59:43,720 --> 00:59:47,800
Speaker 2: you incrementally make a better you buy a better bar,

1231
00:59:48,000 --> 00:59:50,920
Speaker 2: you buy a better bag of chips, or anything like that,

1232
00:59:51,440 --> 00:59:53,800
Speaker 2: but then that's a positive thing. These are behavioral changes,

1233
00:59:53,960 --> 00:59:55,600
Speaker 2: but we need to sort of get the word out

1234
00:59:55,600 --> 00:59:58,880
Speaker 2: there right where it's not always they're obvious things, but

1235
00:59:58,960 --> 01:00:00,720
Speaker 2: they're not obvious things also matter.

1236
01:00:01,000 --> 01:00:03,120
Speaker 1: I think for me, one of the behavioral changes that

1237
01:00:03,120 --> 01:00:06,120
Speaker 1: has helped so much is out of sight, out of mind.

1238
01:00:06,520 --> 01:00:08,120
Speaker 1: Well you just said, like when you walk in and

1239
01:00:08,160 --> 01:00:11,280
Speaker 1: look at your refrigerator and there's only carrots and hummers,

1240
01:00:11,600 --> 01:00:13,520
Speaker 1: Like I said, like I bought this bag in today

1241
01:00:13,560 --> 01:00:17,360
Speaker 1: for this episode, but we wouldn't have this available. So

1242
01:00:17,560 --> 01:00:19,720
Speaker 1: do I want those chips? Of course I want to

1243
01:00:19,840 --> 01:00:22,000
Speaker 1: tear chips. I would rather eat your tear chips than

1244
01:00:22,280 --> 01:00:24,360
Speaker 1: any whole foods because that's what I'm conditioned to one.

1245
01:00:24,880 --> 01:00:28,000
Speaker 1: But when they're not available in our snack drawer, you know,

1246
01:00:28,040 --> 01:00:29,480
Speaker 1: then I have to think. I got to wait twenty

1247
01:00:29,480 --> 01:00:30,080
Speaker 1: minutes so.

1248
01:00:30,360 --> 01:00:32,080
Speaker 2: Now that is very true, right, So I think we

1249
01:00:32,160 --> 01:00:35,000
Speaker 2: have to control the environment we have control over, which

1250
01:00:35,040 --> 01:00:37,520
Speaker 2: broadly speaking, is our household. And so same for me.

1251
01:00:37,640 --> 01:00:40,640
Speaker 2: My wife bans me from buying. So she loves chocolate

1252
01:00:41,000 --> 01:00:44,600
Speaker 2: and she I mean me me chocolate. I like chocolate.

1253
01:00:44,640 --> 01:00:46,760
Speaker 2: But if there was a chocolate bar there, for example,

1254
01:00:47,000 --> 01:00:49,000
Speaker 2: I would eat a piece and then I will continue

1255
01:00:49,040 --> 01:00:49,440
Speaker 2: talking to you.

1256
01:00:49,520 --> 01:00:50,200
Speaker 1: Yeah I can do that.

1257
01:00:51,080 --> 01:00:52,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, So my wife says, please don't buy chocolate in

1258
01:00:52,760 --> 01:00:54,560
Speaker 2: the house. So if we go to a restaurant, we

1259
01:00:54,560 --> 01:00:56,440
Speaker 2: go to a meal, that's different, right because we're outside.

1260
01:00:56,480 --> 01:00:59,600
Speaker 2: But within our house, like you said, there are no

1261
01:00:59,680 --> 01:01:01,520
Speaker 2: and I christs. So I don't buy Christmas in the

1262
01:01:01,520 --> 01:01:03,320
Speaker 2: house because I know that if it's there and I

1263
01:01:03,360 --> 01:01:05,200
Speaker 2: hear the wrestling, I'll eat it. Out of side, out

1264
01:01:05,200 --> 01:01:06,880
Speaker 2: of mind is a good way of handling it.

1265
01:01:06,960 --> 01:01:08,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's been one big thing for me. And the

1266
01:01:08,760 --> 01:01:11,720
Speaker 1: other one that really helped me is having a plan

1267
01:01:12,200 --> 01:01:13,680
Speaker 1: for when that craving comes.

1268
01:01:13,960 --> 01:01:15,720
Speaker 2: Strategy. Yeah, strategy here.

1269
01:01:15,680 --> 01:01:18,120
Speaker 1: Right, Like, rather than feeling like, oh, you know, I'm

1270
01:01:18,160 --> 01:01:19,840
Speaker 1: in a good discipline mode, I'm not going to have

1271
01:01:19,880 --> 01:01:22,760
Speaker 1: the craving today. It's like, no, I know that at

1272
01:01:22,760 --> 01:01:25,480
Speaker 1: eight pm at night, I'm going to get a craving

1273
01:01:25,920 --> 01:01:29,040
Speaker 1: and so let me have a plan be option available

1274
01:01:29,520 --> 01:01:33,600
Speaker 1: that is healthier, better, more natural than putting myself and

1275
01:01:33,640 --> 01:01:36,160
Speaker 1: then grabbing one of the ultra process food.

1276
01:01:36,200 --> 01:01:38,400
Speaker 2: So whenever I talk to people and then someone come

1277
01:01:38,440 --> 01:01:40,919
Speaker 2: out to me and whatever their genetic drive, they says, oh,

1278
01:01:41,000 --> 01:01:42,360
Speaker 2: you know I need to lose weight, how would you

1279
01:01:42,360 --> 01:01:44,040
Speaker 2: do it? I said, Look, if you know you need

1280
01:01:44,040 --> 01:01:46,320
Speaker 2: to lose weight for whatever reason, then what you've got

1281
01:01:46,320 --> 01:01:48,640
Speaker 2: to do the first the easiest thing to do. Okay,

1282
01:01:49,000 --> 01:01:51,960
Speaker 2: don't go take a genetic test anything like that. It's free, okay,

1283
01:01:52,240 --> 01:01:54,800
Speaker 2: is be honest with why you eat when you eat,

1284
01:01:55,000 --> 01:01:57,400
Speaker 2: and some people eat when it gets stressed, other people don't.

1285
01:01:57,480 --> 01:02:01,320
Speaker 2: Some people have a craving for chocolate. Eight rock. Understand this,

1286
01:02:01,600 --> 01:02:04,200
Speaker 2: and the moment you understand that, put a strategy in

1287
01:02:04,240 --> 01:02:07,080
Speaker 2: place to kind of mitigate against against that, and that

1288
01:02:07,280 --> 01:02:11,120
Speaker 2: is your way into dealing with your biology. Don't worry

1289
01:02:11,160 --> 01:02:12,960
Speaker 2: about the fact that, well, when I go to my

1290
01:02:13,000 --> 01:02:15,960
Speaker 2: friend's house anything like that, that's fine because you live

1291
01:02:16,000 --> 01:02:19,400
Speaker 2: in your house. So fix your house first. That everything

1292
01:02:19,400 --> 01:02:21,240
Speaker 2: else you can you can kind of take it day

1293
01:02:21,240 --> 01:02:22,960
Speaker 2: by day. Fix what you have in your house.

1294
01:02:23,080 --> 01:02:25,400
Speaker 1: Absolutely, those two things have helped me outside out of

1295
01:02:25,400 --> 01:02:29,360
Speaker 1: mind and making sure that I have a plan for

1296
01:02:29,760 --> 01:02:31,920
Speaker 1: the things I know are going to happen, not hoping

1297
01:02:31,920 --> 01:02:32,720
Speaker 1: that they don't happen.

1298
01:02:32,800 --> 01:02:35,240
Speaker 2: Yeah exactly. Don't lie to yourself. Do not lie to yourself.

1299
01:02:35,280 --> 01:02:38,040
Speaker 1: Yeah exactly, because yeah it's I've lied to myself too

1300
01:02:38,080 --> 01:02:42,080
Speaker 1: many times and then ended up over eating or over

1301
01:02:42,560 --> 01:02:45,480
Speaker 1: sugaring or whatever it may be, because I didn't have

1302
01:02:45,520 --> 01:02:48,760
Speaker 1: a plan, and so I fell to my devices. I

1303
01:02:48,800 --> 01:02:51,400
Speaker 1: was intrigued to something you write about is why is

1304
01:02:51,440 --> 01:02:52,800
Speaker 1: it so difficult to lose weight?

1305
01:02:53,120 --> 01:02:56,000
Speaker 2: Because your brain hates it when you lose weight. So

1306
01:02:56,360 --> 01:02:59,560
Speaker 2: it thinks I'm losing weight. This is lowering my chances

1307
01:02:59,600 --> 01:03:01,919
Speaker 2: of survive in a world where there's not enough food.

1308
01:03:01,960 --> 01:03:04,400
Speaker 2: This is not true now, but in a caveman brain

1309
01:03:04,520 --> 01:03:06,840
Speaker 2: that is actually dealing with is thinking, I'm losing weight.

1310
01:03:07,000 --> 01:03:08,640
Speaker 2: I need to put the weight back on. And so

1311
01:03:08,720 --> 01:03:11,760
Speaker 2: your brain does everything in its power. It does two things.

1312
01:03:12,000 --> 01:03:15,080
Speaker 2: It makes you hungrier, as you know when anyone who's dieted,

1313
01:03:15,120 --> 01:03:18,560
Speaker 2: you feel hungry, and more insidiously because this you don't know,

1314
01:03:19,000 --> 01:03:23,439
Speaker 2: it lowers your metabolism. Okay, so Imagine if I were

1315
01:03:23,880 --> 01:03:26,680
Speaker 2: I'm an eighty kilo human being. Okay, imagine if I

1316
01:03:26,880 --> 01:03:28,880
Speaker 2: used to be ninety kilograms and I've lost so I've

1317
01:03:28,880 --> 01:03:31,920
Speaker 2: lost ten percent on my body weight. Okay, the previously

1318
01:03:32,080 --> 01:03:34,280
Speaker 2: that me who lost ten percent of the weight versus

1319
01:03:34,360 --> 01:03:36,880
Speaker 2: me never been ninety kilos. He has to eat less

1320
01:03:36,920 --> 01:03:39,720
Speaker 2: than me to maintain the same weight as me. Okay,

1321
01:03:39,840 --> 01:03:42,080
Speaker 2: eighty and eighty, but he used to be because he's

1322
01:03:42,120 --> 01:03:44,600
Speaker 2: lost that weight, and the brain is trying to drag

1323
01:03:44,680 --> 01:03:47,440
Speaker 2: him back, kicking and screaming, back up to the weight

1324
01:03:47,480 --> 01:03:50,320
Speaker 2: he was before. Your brain hates it when you lose weight,

1325
01:03:50,360 --> 01:03:53,920
Speaker 2: and it puts into homeostatic measures the soul to make

1326
01:03:53,960 --> 01:03:57,840
Speaker 2: sure you gain the weight back again. It's very depressing again,

1327
01:03:57,920 --> 01:03:59,880
Speaker 2: but yeah, you fight you fighting biology.

1328
01:04:00,120 --> 01:04:03,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, and as we get older, we're putting on more weight.

1329
01:04:04,000 --> 01:04:07,160
Speaker 2: Naturally, you do for a couple of different reasons. I

1330
01:04:07,200 --> 01:04:09,440
Speaker 2: think I would have given you a different answer five

1331
01:04:09,520 --> 01:04:12,680
Speaker 2: years ago. But new work has concast has shown that

1332
01:04:12,800 --> 01:04:16,400
Speaker 2: actually you don't begin to drop your metabolism per gram

1333
01:04:16,400 --> 01:04:18,120
Speaker 2: of muscle in you, all right, Just to be clear,

1334
01:04:18,400 --> 01:04:20,120
Speaker 2: so in no matter words, how much muscle you're carrying

1335
01:04:20,520 --> 01:04:22,960
Speaker 2: really to your mid sixties, so people thought it happened earlier.

1336
01:04:23,000 --> 01:04:25,959
Speaker 2: It doesn't, Okay. The problem is when you get into

1337
01:04:26,120 --> 01:04:29,120
Speaker 2: middle age. Okay, is this? First of all, we tend

1338
01:04:29,120 --> 01:04:32,160
Speaker 2: to get richer, not rich, but richer. We're set on

1339
01:04:32,160 --> 01:04:34,600
Speaker 2: our backsides. We have more money, we have more money.

1340
01:04:34,680 --> 01:04:37,919
Speaker 2: We don't we eat richer food. We're not gonna eat less, right,

1341
01:04:38,120 --> 01:04:41,080
Speaker 2: we're moving less. We tend to exercise less. I'm sorry,

1342
01:04:41,120 --> 01:04:43,760
Speaker 2: that's true, which means that your muscle mass begins to

1343
01:04:43,800 --> 01:04:45,680
Speaker 2: it begins to lower. So a mix of all that

1344
01:04:45,720 --> 01:04:49,120
Speaker 2: you have more money, you eat better food, you exercise less, okay,

1345
01:04:49,520 --> 01:04:51,920
Speaker 2: and that is the toxic mix that then ends up

1346
01:04:51,920 --> 01:04:55,000
Speaker 2: with you gaining weight middle aged bread, et cetera, et cetera.

1347
01:04:55,280 --> 01:04:56,080
Speaker 1: How do we stop that?

1348
01:04:56,520 --> 01:04:59,840
Speaker 2: I think the most important thing if we're dealing with

1349
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:02,160
Speaker 2: actually zeroing in, clearly we can say we need to

1350
01:05:02,200 --> 01:05:04,880
Speaker 2: improve our diets and things. This is all true. The

1351
01:05:04,920 --> 01:05:08,400
Speaker 2: most important thing about health span rather than longevity, Right,

1352
01:05:08,720 --> 01:05:10,920
Speaker 2: Who the hell wants to live forever? You know with

1353
01:05:10,960 --> 01:05:13,160
Speaker 2: tubes and you just don't, okay, but people want to

1354
01:05:13,160 --> 01:05:17,720
Speaker 2: live healthy for longer. The marker that most predicts your

1355
01:05:17,720 --> 01:05:21,120
Speaker 2: health span is the amount your percent, your ratio, to

1356
01:05:21,240 --> 01:05:25,120
Speaker 2: muscle to fat heading into your late sixties and into

1357
01:05:25,160 --> 01:05:29,720
Speaker 2: your seventies, okay, it doesn't matter very many Clearly how

1358
01:05:29,720 --> 01:05:32,520
Speaker 2: heavy you are matter is okay, but more importantly how

1359
01:05:32,600 --> 01:05:34,600
Speaker 2: much muscle are you taking into that period of time.

1360
01:05:34,760 --> 01:05:37,640
Speaker 2: The more muscle lean mass you actually have going in,

1361
01:05:37,680 --> 01:05:40,600
Speaker 2: particularly into your seventies, the healthier you're likely to be.

1362
01:05:41,080 --> 01:05:45,840
Speaker 2: So do not neglect, do not neglect moving and keeping

1363
01:05:45,920 --> 01:05:49,360
Speaker 2: your muscles in shape, particularly as you get older, and

1364
01:05:49,440 --> 01:05:52,880
Speaker 2: that is the way to fight all the bad things

1365
01:05:52,880 --> 01:05:53,440
Speaker 2: that can happen.

1366
01:05:53,680 --> 01:05:56,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, what's really interesting is that as a society, I

1367
01:05:56,120 --> 01:05:59,480
Speaker 1: feel like we've been struggling with weight loss for so long,

1368
01:05:59,520 --> 01:06:02,160
Speaker 1: and that's where we've obviously seen the rise of weight

1369
01:06:02,200 --> 01:06:05,000
Speaker 1: loss drugs and especially more recently with the zembic and

1370
01:06:05,080 --> 01:06:08,240
Speaker 1: it becomes commonplace now, it seems at least I don't

1371
01:06:08,240 --> 01:06:10,440
Speaker 1: know in the UK, but definitely in the States, and

1372
01:06:10,480 --> 01:06:14,480
Speaker 1: people are open about their usage. There's a debate over

1373
01:06:14,520 --> 01:06:17,160
Speaker 1: whether it's good or bad, and people have different views

1374
01:06:17,160 --> 01:06:20,200
Speaker 1: on it for different reasons. But there has been this

1375
01:06:20,480 --> 01:06:23,920
Speaker 1: almost pressure that we've placed on people, not always from

1376
01:06:23,920 --> 01:06:28,280
Speaker 1: a health point, but from a vanity point to lose weight. Yes,

1377
01:06:28,600 --> 01:06:31,560
Speaker 1: whereas what we're talking about today is a healthy Yeah.

1378
01:06:31,400 --> 01:06:33,680
Speaker 2: We're talking about health. And I think, look, there is

1379
01:06:33,720 --> 01:06:36,840
Speaker 2: nothing wrong with these drugs as long as the right

1380
01:06:36,840 --> 01:06:39,080
Speaker 2: people get them. I think ultimately that's true. Now, if

1381
01:06:39,120 --> 01:06:41,920
Speaker 2: you have a lot of fat, you know, you have

1382
01:06:41,920 --> 01:06:44,880
Speaker 2: severe obesity, then the drug is for you. Because you're ill,

1383
01:06:45,320 --> 01:06:47,760
Speaker 2: you are getting diabetes, the drug is for you. The

1384
01:06:47,840 --> 01:06:50,800
Speaker 2: drugs are not a cosmetic drugs. So these drugs are

1385
01:06:50,800 --> 01:06:53,880
Speaker 2: modified gut homones. They're modified versions of natural hormones that

1386
01:06:53,920 --> 01:06:57,240
Speaker 2: we actually have. So in one way of looking at things,

1387
01:06:57,320 --> 01:06:59,400
Speaker 2: we could say that, well, I've only tweaked one hormone

1388
01:06:59,400 --> 01:07:01,560
Speaker 2: in your body, suddenly you eat less. Then you can

1389
01:07:01,680 --> 01:07:04,080
Speaker 2: argue that a lot of people with obesity probably just

1390
01:07:04,080 --> 01:07:07,000
Speaker 2: have a hormonal deficiency that you're trying to fix. However,

1391
01:07:07,480 --> 01:07:10,040
Speaker 2: the reason these drugs are good is because they're powerful

1392
01:07:10,040 --> 01:07:12,880
Speaker 2: in their work. The reason these drugs are bad, it's

1393
01:07:12,920 --> 01:07:15,080
Speaker 2: because they're powerful and they work for everybody. They make

1394
01:07:15,120 --> 01:07:17,320
Speaker 2: you feel fuller, whether or not you're three hundred pounds

1395
01:07:17,400 --> 01:07:19,440
Speaker 2: looking to lose one hundred, or whether or not you

1396
01:07:19,480 --> 01:07:21,920
Speaker 2: are a sixteen year old girl who's seventy five pounds.

1397
01:07:22,080 --> 01:07:24,720
Speaker 2: That is the problem. It will still make you eat less.

1398
01:07:25,120 --> 01:07:28,439
Speaker 2: So they're not cosmetic drugs. They're powerful drugs. They should

1399
01:07:28,480 --> 01:07:30,959
Speaker 2: be used as drugs, not at the red carpet tool.

1400
01:07:31,320 --> 01:07:33,320
Speaker 1: So you're saying that there are a group of people

1401
01:07:33,360 --> 01:07:35,480
Speaker 1: who it's healthier for them to use it, yes, and

1402
01:07:35,520 --> 01:07:37,920
Speaker 1: there's a group of people that shouldn't be using it.

1403
01:07:38,000 --> 01:07:41,160
Speaker 2: Correct, because I think everyone who needs the drug should

1404
01:07:41,160 --> 01:07:43,680
Speaker 2: get the drug, and these are people who in fact,

1405
01:07:43,720 --> 01:07:46,280
Speaker 2: there's more nuance about this at the moment. Certainly in

1406
01:07:46,720 --> 01:07:51,800
Speaker 2: the UK, there are rules where about how what your BMI,

1407
01:07:51,840 --> 01:07:54,680
Speaker 2: what your weight should be before you're allowed the drug,

1408
01:07:54,920 --> 01:07:57,800
Speaker 2: and it's above a certain amount, etcetera, etcetera. We've already

1409
01:07:57,840 --> 01:08:00,680
Speaker 2: discussed for example, they're South Asians and East as we

1410
01:08:00,760 --> 01:08:03,920
Speaker 2: can't get that much weight before we get risk of disease.

1411
01:08:04,440 --> 01:08:07,840
Speaker 2: So we need to be more nuanced about who gets

1412
01:08:07,840 --> 01:08:10,200
Speaker 2: the drug and the person The people that get the

1413
01:08:10,240 --> 01:08:14,680
Speaker 2: drug need to be closing in on their disease state. Okay,

1414
01:08:14,800 --> 01:08:17,080
Speaker 2: they should get the drug. Okay. So in other words,

1415
01:08:17,120 --> 01:08:19,360
Speaker 2: you could be a little bit heavier but actually be

1416
01:08:19,360 --> 01:08:21,040
Speaker 2: perfectly healthy. Do you need the drug?

1417
01:08:21,280 --> 01:08:21,439
Speaker 1: Right?

1418
01:08:21,560 --> 01:08:24,880
Speaker 2: Whereas maybe a South Asian man who's BMI twenty seven

1419
01:08:24,920 --> 01:08:27,559
Speaker 2: but actually is already close to being type two diabetic,

1420
01:08:28,200 --> 01:08:30,080
Speaker 2: maybe he should get it. So I think at the

1421
01:08:30,160 --> 01:08:32,960
Speaker 2: moment people draw a line in the sand about your BMI,

1422
01:08:34,000 --> 01:08:36,479
Speaker 2: I think we need to be more in fact, just

1423
01:08:36,560 --> 01:08:39,160
Speaker 2: talking about obesity in general, we need to be more nuanced.

1424
01:08:39,320 --> 01:08:41,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really hard because people will say, well, I

1425
01:08:41,600 --> 01:08:43,920
Speaker 1: feel more confident now that have taken it, and you know,

1426
01:08:43,960 --> 01:08:46,439
Speaker 1: I feel better about myself now they've taken it.

1427
01:08:46,640 --> 01:08:48,720
Speaker 2: I mean, okay, as a game, if we game it

1428
01:08:48,760 --> 01:08:52,920
Speaker 2: in our head, do I see if these drugs were

1429
01:08:53,000 --> 01:08:56,040
Speaker 2: shown to be fully, fully, fully fully safe over a

1430
01:08:56,040 --> 01:08:58,920
Speaker 2: long period of time, and broadly speaking we know the

1431
01:08:59,040 --> 01:09:01,840
Speaker 2: right people will get it, can I or do I

1432
01:09:02,040 --> 01:09:04,479
Speaker 2: think that if I can walk into a drug store

1433
01:09:04,560 --> 01:09:06,040
Speaker 2: because at the moment, for example, we go in and

1434
01:09:06,040 --> 01:09:08,840
Speaker 2: buy talent. No, okay, we give it to our kids.

1435
01:09:09,080 --> 01:09:11,360
Speaker 2: Right now, we also know that if I had a

1436
01:09:11,400 --> 01:09:14,719
Speaker 2: whole bottle of talano, I may endanger my liver. Okay,

1437
01:09:14,760 --> 01:09:17,280
Speaker 2: so there right, it can be toxic as well. But

1438
01:09:17,439 --> 01:09:21,040
Speaker 2: now society has accepted that this is something that we

1439
01:09:21,080 --> 01:09:24,439
Speaker 2: can choose to self medicate with without a prescription. If

1440
01:09:24,479 --> 01:09:27,080
Speaker 2: we can get to that level of safeness for these

1441
01:09:27,080 --> 01:09:31,280
Speaker 2: weight loss drugs, why not, I guess please. I am

1442
01:09:31,320 --> 01:09:33,400
Speaker 2: not saying we will get there, and I'm not saying

1443
01:09:33,400 --> 01:09:35,360
Speaker 2: it's possible to get there for the reasons which I've

1444
01:09:35,360 --> 01:09:38,200
Speaker 2: told you, But I think as a principle, I don't

1445
01:09:38,240 --> 01:09:41,160
Speaker 2: mind doing that as long as it's safe and only

1446
01:09:41,160 --> 01:09:43,920
Speaker 2: the right people get it. Those are the two critical things.

1447
01:09:44,040 --> 01:09:47,640
Speaker 1: What are the dangers of weight loss drugs like ZAMBI like,

1448
01:09:47,640 --> 01:09:50,440
Speaker 1: what are the actual ramifications.

1449
01:09:49,680 --> 01:09:51,559
Speaker 2: The ramifications I have the wrong people get it? I

1450
01:09:51,560 --> 01:09:54,280
Speaker 2: mean think very rarely. I think that there's certain things

1451
01:09:54,280 --> 01:09:57,920
Speaker 2: that could happen extremely extremely rarely. The biggest danger is

1452
01:09:57,960 --> 01:10:01,760
Speaker 2: the people who are taking it for cosmetic and don't

1453
01:10:01,760 --> 01:10:04,280
Speaker 2: have a lot of fat to lose and take too

1454
01:10:04,360 --> 01:10:05,960
Speaker 2: much of it, and then what that happens is they

1455
01:10:05,960 --> 01:10:06,760
Speaker 2: didn't lose too much.

1456
01:10:06,680 --> 01:10:09,880
Speaker 1: Weight, And what are they damaging? What are the consequences?

1457
01:10:09,880 --> 01:10:12,599
Speaker 2: Because what these drugs do, because they make you feel fuller,

1458
01:10:13,040 --> 01:10:16,360
Speaker 2: then the drugs itself don't do a great you know,

1459
01:10:16,400 --> 01:10:18,519
Speaker 2: they're positive effects to the drugs, They just make you

1460
01:10:18,560 --> 01:10:21,080
Speaker 2: eat less. So if you are already skinny and take it,

1461
01:10:21,160 --> 01:10:23,479
Speaker 2: you are in effect starving yourself. That's the one thing.

1462
01:10:23,760 --> 01:10:27,240
Speaker 2: Starvation is not a good thing. Okay for that. Now, Equally,

1463
01:10:27,400 --> 01:10:29,519
Speaker 2: if you take the drug and don't improve your diet,

1464
01:10:29,680 --> 01:10:31,920
Speaker 2: because these drugs also don't improve your diet, they just

1465
01:10:32,000 --> 01:10:34,240
Speaker 2: make you feel full. So if your diet was crap

1466
01:10:34,280 --> 01:10:36,720
Speaker 2: to begin with and you're eating chips and oreos all

1467
01:10:36,760 --> 01:10:39,360
Speaker 2: the time, what these drugs will do is to make

1468
01:10:39,400 --> 01:10:43,240
Speaker 2: you eat less chipscenarios, and so actually what happens is

1469
01:10:43,280 --> 01:10:45,800
Speaker 2: you could end up malnourished. So even yes, you're losing

1470
01:10:45,840 --> 01:10:48,960
Speaker 2: weight because you're now eating calorie wise less food. So

1471
01:10:49,240 --> 01:10:51,760
Speaker 2: I'm losing weight. Look at me, I'm good. But then

1472
01:10:51,840 --> 01:10:54,360
Speaker 2: if that's all you're eating, you're not doing your fiber

1473
01:10:54,439 --> 01:10:57,400
Speaker 2: or your protein and all that jazz right a micronutrients,

1474
01:10:57,800 --> 01:11:00,400
Speaker 2: then you're gonna be skinny and malnourished at the same

1475
01:11:00,400 --> 01:11:03,400
Speaker 2: time on the drug. So the drug is a silver

1476
01:11:03,439 --> 01:11:06,080
Speaker 2: bullet for the feeling full of it. It doesn't improve

1477
01:11:06,120 --> 01:11:09,120
Speaker 2: your behavior, it doesn't improve your diet, it doesn't stop

1478
01:11:09,120 --> 01:11:11,320
Speaker 2: people from not taking you who shouldn't be taking it.

1479
01:11:11,400 --> 01:11:13,479
Speaker 2: So I'm pro drug for the people who need it.

1480
01:11:13,640 --> 01:11:16,479
Speaker 1: Got it, relieve it clearly. I appreciate that I want

1481
01:11:16,520 --> 01:11:18,679
Speaker 1: to ask you this question because I think you've alluded

1482
01:11:18,720 --> 01:11:21,960
Speaker 1: to it. But if you could put a warning label

1483
01:11:22,280 --> 01:11:24,920
Speaker 1: on one part of the diet industry, what would it be.

1484
01:11:25,360 --> 01:11:29,200
Speaker 2: Can I have two things? Yeah, so I think that

1485
01:11:29,200 --> 01:11:31,280
Speaker 2: that we've really alluded to it. I think two things.

1486
01:11:31,280 --> 01:11:33,680
Speaker 2: The first, which is most important, is don't obsess over

1487
01:11:33,720 --> 01:11:37,240
Speaker 2: one item of food because look, sometimes life demands a

1488
01:11:37,320 --> 01:11:40,320
Speaker 2: chocolate bar, sometimes life demands a banana. It depends what

1489
01:11:40,360 --> 01:11:43,240
Speaker 2: you're doing. Okay, can you make a healthier chocolate bar?

1490
01:11:43,720 --> 01:11:46,280
Speaker 2: And actually, over a period of time, we don't eat chocolate.

1491
01:11:46,320 --> 01:11:48,920
Speaker 2: We shouldn't eat chocolate bars every day. So that's the

1492
01:11:48,960 --> 01:11:52,840
Speaker 2: first thing we shouldn't. We shouldn't eat chocolate bars every well,

1493
01:11:52,880 --> 01:11:54,479
Speaker 2: we shouldn't. Why did we just like saying no, we

1494
01:11:54,520 --> 01:11:55,680
Speaker 2: shouldn't eat burgers every day.

1495
01:11:55,680 --> 01:11:58,719
Speaker 1: It's normal though that people do that, right, that's common,

1496
01:11:59,400 --> 01:12:01,960
Speaker 1: but we shouldn't. It is common though. I think it

1497
01:12:01,960 --> 01:12:04,719
Speaker 1: probably is quite common. It is common, I don't I assume.

1498
01:12:04,760 --> 01:12:08,879
Speaker 1: So you're right exactly exactly.

1499
01:12:08,960 --> 01:12:10,519
Speaker 2: So I think what you've got to do is I.

1500
01:12:10,439 --> 01:12:13,879
Speaker 1: Did up until I was twenty one, so every.

1501
01:12:13,720 --> 01:12:15,000
Speaker 2: Day, So that's what you've got to do. What you've

1502
01:12:15,000 --> 01:12:17,240
Speaker 2: got to do is there's nothing wrong with the chocolate bar.

1503
01:12:17,560 --> 01:12:19,160
Speaker 2: You got to think about your whole your whole diet

1504
01:12:19,160 --> 01:12:22,320
Speaker 2: with those numbers that are so that's the second. Are

1505
01:12:22,360 --> 01:12:24,479
Speaker 2: those numbers that were that I were actually telling you

1506
01:12:24,520 --> 01:12:27,200
Speaker 2: about that the numbers that just focusing on the calories.

1507
01:12:27,200 --> 01:12:30,759
Speaker 2: I really wish that they've been making in small numbers.

1508
01:12:30,840 --> 01:12:32,400
Speaker 2: I think maybe the genie is out of the bottle

1509
01:12:32,439 --> 01:12:34,880
Speaker 2: and we can't get those calories. I think obsessing over

1510
01:12:34,920 --> 01:12:37,439
Speaker 2: the calories is the wrong thing to assess about because

1511
01:12:37,479 --> 01:12:39,360
Speaker 2: it doesn't improve the quality of our diet.

1512
01:12:39,600 --> 01:12:41,760
Speaker 1: To me, the big thing that I think I really

1513
01:12:41,760 --> 01:12:43,599
Speaker 1: want people to take away is this idea of look

1514
01:12:43,600 --> 01:12:46,680
Speaker 1: at the protein, look at the fiber, and look at

1515
01:12:46,680 --> 01:12:51,479
Speaker 1: the sugars. Yes, because that solves it right Like I'm

1516
01:12:51,479 --> 01:12:54,120
Speaker 1: thinking right now. If someone's feeling overwhelmed right now, they're listening,

1517
01:12:55,120 --> 01:12:57,080
Speaker 1: they're just thinking right now, like Charles, I want to

1518
01:12:57,080 --> 01:12:59,599
Speaker 1: do this, but I don't even know how to have

1519
01:12:59,600 --> 01:13:02,280
Speaker 1: time to Where would you suggest they start? Is that

1520
01:13:02,320 --> 01:13:03,439
Speaker 1: where you suggest they start?

1521
01:13:03,560 --> 01:13:03,920
Speaker 2: Yes?

1522
01:13:04,200 --> 01:13:06,800
Speaker 1: Yes, me too. I think that's a really clear way

1523
01:13:06,840 --> 01:13:09,879
Speaker 1: of looking at is think about your diet as protein intake,

1524
01:13:10,240 --> 01:13:13,800
Speaker 1: fiber intake, and sugar intake. In the percentages that jars

1525
01:13:13,840 --> 01:13:18,559
Speaker 1: broke down sixteen percent, of protein, thirty grams of fiber,

1526
01:13:19,120 --> 01:13:23,519
Speaker 1: and five percent sugar or less, and all of a sudden,

1527
01:13:24,520 --> 01:13:27,599
Speaker 1: now you're hopefully going to feel healthier, have more energy,

1528
01:13:27,880 --> 01:13:30,960
Speaker 1: and naturally eat less or eat less.

1529
01:13:31,400 --> 01:13:32,280
Speaker 2: Eat less crap.

1530
01:13:32,439 --> 01:13:33,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're going to eat better.

1531
01:13:33,840 --> 01:13:35,160
Speaker 2: And you might say that, well, wait a minute. They

1532
01:13:35,200 --> 01:13:38,240
Speaker 2: don't label fruits and vegetables, and they don't label meat

1533
01:13:38,479 --> 01:13:41,360
Speaker 2: because they don't need to. Ultimately, if you get if

1534
01:13:41,360 --> 01:13:44,160
Speaker 2: you're actually eating a piece of meat and some fruit

1535
01:13:44,240 --> 01:13:46,160
Speaker 2: and vegetables in which there's no labeling, and it's just

1536
01:13:46,240 --> 01:13:48,479
Speaker 2: how do I know? How don't know? If you're eating

1537
01:13:48,479 --> 01:13:51,000
Speaker 2: that you don't need to know. That is the point.

1538
01:13:51,080 --> 01:13:54,000
Speaker 2: Because if you're cooking a steak and you're having broccoli,

1539
01:13:54,120 --> 01:13:56,000
Speaker 2: and you're you're doing the things, and you're peating the

1540
01:13:56,000 --> 01:13:58,680
Speaker 2: potato and boiling it, and your then concern about I

1541
01:13:58,680 --> 01:14:00,320
Speaker 2: don't know how much sugar they put in it? What

1542
01:14:00,400 --> 01:14:02,040
Speaker 2: it's because you have to add sugar if you want

1543
01:14:02,040 --> 01:14:03,960
Speaker 2: to do it, and you want to do so the

1544
01:14:04,040 --> 01:14:07,240
Speaker 2: moment you're cooking from scratch. Not everybody can cook from scratch,

1545
01:14:07,240 --> 01:14:09,519
Speaker 2: which is what versus right. So, but if you are

1546
01:14:09,560 --> 01:14:11,560
Speaker 2: eating foods with no labels, then they tend to be

1547
01:14:11,600 --> 01:14:12,200
Speaker 2: fresh stuff.

1548
01:14:12,600 --> 01:14:15,880
Speaker 1: Then that's a great point, right that the foods that

1549
01:14:16,040 --> 01:14:19,439
Speaker 1: don't have labels correct is because they don't need the

1550
01:14:19,640 --> 01:14:21,640
Speaker 1: correct that. I've never even thought about it like that.

1551
01:14:21,680 --> 01:14:23,920
Speaker 1: It sounds so simple, but it's a really good point.

1552
01:14:24,320 --> 01:14:27,000
Speaker 1: And if you're eating that way, then generally you're going

1553
01:14:27,080 --> 01:14:29,000
Speaker 1: to be healthier, safer, more.

1554
01:14:29,400 --> 01:14:31,759
Speaker 2: Yes, there's still danger of eating too much on of course,

1555
01:14:32,120 --> 01:14:34,720
Speaker 2: but as a general rule, with general rule, I think

1556
01:14:34,720 --> 01:14:35,839
Speaker 2: that's going to be amazing.

1557
01:14:35,920 --> 01:14:38,439
Speaker 1: Charles, it's been so great talking to you today. We

1558
01:14:38,600 --> 01:14:41,479
Speaker 1: end every On Purpose episode with a final five. These

1559
01:14:41,560 --> 01:14:43,880
Speaker 1: questions have to be answered in one word or one

1560
01:14:43,920 --> 01:14:49,120
Speaker 1: sentence maximum, So Giles, yo yo, you look prepared. Here's

1561
01:14:49,240 --> 01:14:51,360
Speaker 1: your final five. The first question is what is the

1562
01:14:51,400 --> 01:14:54,800
Speaker 1: best health advice you've ever heard, received, or given?

1563
01:14:55,120 --> 01:14:56,160
Speaker 2: So you don't want to move more?

1564
01:14:56,840 --> 01:14:59,000
Speaker 1: That's a great one. Question number two, what is the

1565
01:14:59,040 --> 01:15:01,880
Speaker 1: worst health the advice you've ever heard or received?

1566
01:15:01,960 --> 01:15:02,720
Speaker 2: Count calories?

1567
01:15:04,439 --> 01:15:07,280
Speaker 1: Question number three, something you used to believe was true

1568
01:15:07,320 --> 01:15:10,080
Speaker 1: about health, but now you know it's not true.

1569
01:15:10,479 --> 01:15:12,160
Speaker 2: I used to think that the moment you hit your

1570
01:15:12,160 --> 01:15:15,040
Speaker 2: forties and fifties, your metabolism dropped, and that's not that's

1571
01:15:15,080 --> 01:15:16,800
Speaker 2: not true. It's only because your muscle mass drop. So

1572
01:15:16,840 --> 01:15:20,880
Speaker 2: I think this metabolism thing, your metabolism stays stable through

1573
01:15:20,880 --> 01:15:22,880
Speaker 2: your life. That was a very long un time, so sorry,

1574
01:15:22,920 --> 01:15:25,360
Speaker 2: but but I used to think that five years ago,

1575
01:15:25,360 --> 01:15:26,559
Speaker 2: and now I don't think that anymore.

1576
01:15:26,800 --> 01:15:31,960
Speaker 1: What's the most recent study or research that you've read

1577
01:15:32,520 --> 01:15:35,040
Speaker 1: about the work that you do that blew your mind

1578
01:15:35,120 --> 01:15:37,960
Speaker 1: or fascinated you, or something that made you really curious

1579
01:15:37,960 --> 01:15:38,600
Speaker 1: and interested.

1580
01:15:39,040 --> 01:15:43,360
Speaker 2: When I first learned that this lowering on metabolism when

1581
01:15:43,400 --> 01:15:46,720
Speaker 2: you lose weight, it's pretty much permanent, right, and so

1582
01:15:46,760 --> 01:15:48,680
Speaker 2: in other words, this is why it's so difficult for

1583
01:15:48,720 --> 01:15:50,280
Speaker 2: you to lose weight. This is probably it's probably ten

1584
01:15:50,320 --> 01:15:52,200
Speaker 2: years old, so it's not new. It's part of the

1585
01:15:52,240 --> 01:15:53,920
Speaker 2: reason why your brain hates it when you lose but

1586
01:15:54,040 --> 01:15:55,640
Speaker 2: why it's so difficult to actually do this way. So

1587
01:15:55,720 --> 01:15:59,240
Speaker 2: once again, that's just so I'm eighty kilos if I

1588
01:15:59,360 --> 01:16:01,840
Speaker 2: used and I'm not I've always been okay, So but

1589
01:16:01,960 --> 01:16:04,760
Speaker 2: imagine if exactly the same you might twin got to

1590
01:16:04,840 --> 01:16:07,240
Speaker 2: ninety kilos and then came back down to eighty kilos.

1591
01:16:07,800 --> 01:16:10,720
Speaker 2: Then from a physics perspective, you think, well, this is

1592
01:16:10,720 --> 01:16:12,720
Speaker 2: an eighty kilo, gentleman. I'm an ady kilo gentleman. We

1593
01:16:12,720 --> 01:16:15,520
Speaker 2: should be able to eat exactly the same thing. We can't.

1594
01:16:15,760 --> 01:16:17,760
Speaker 2: He will always have to eat less than me to

1595
01:16:17,840 --> 01:16:20,200
Speaker 2: maintain the same body weight because he has a brain

1596
01:16:20,240 --> 01:16:22,240
Speaker 2: that used to be ninety kilos and is dragging him

1597
01:16:22,240 --> 01:16:24,679
Speaker 2: back up. And I remember seeing the very very first

1598
01:16:24,720 --> 01:16:28,480
Speaker 2: time seeing those studies, I was going, this is depressing.

1599
01:16:28,920 --> 01:16:31,599
Speaker 2: But then then you think, well, how do we mitigate

1600
01:16:31,680 --> 01:16:33,640
Speaker 2: against these things? And how do you do it? I mean,

1601
01:16:33,680 --> 01:16:35,880
Speaker 2: the drugs do a job for that, for example, people

1602
01:16:35,920 --> 01:16:38,639
Speaker 2: who exercise. So exercise is terrible for weight loss because

1603
01:16:38,640 --> 01:16:41,160
Speaker 2: we don't exercise enough, but very good for weight maintenance

1604
01:16:41,240 --> 01:16:43,760
Speaker 2: for that very reason. Right where when you exercise, you

1605
01:16:43,840 --> 01:16:47,040
Speaker 2: at your expenditure goes up and it mitigates against this

1606
01:16:47,120 --> 01:16:49,439
Speaker 2: loss of metabolism. So it's not brand new study, but

1607
01:16:49,640 --> 01:16:50,599
Speaker 2: I found it very interesting.

1608
01:16:50,800 --> 01:16:52,120
Speaker 1: Is there a way to trick your brain?

1609
01:16:52,360 --> 01:16:54,080
Speaker 2: There is a way to trick your brain in a

1610
01:16:54,120 --> 01:16:56,240
Speaker 2: bad way. So, in not words, if you gain weight

1611
01:16:57,000 --> 01:16:59,920
Speaker 2: and stay there for long enough time, your brain begins

1612
01:16:59,960 --> 01:17:03,639
Speaker 2: to defend at higher weight, okay, Whereas if you lose weight,

1613
01:17:03,840 --> 01:17:07,040
Speaker 2: your brain, from what we know so far, never defends

1614
01:17:07,040 --> 01:17:10,280
Speaker 2: that lower weight because evolutionarily there is no reason to

1615
01:17:10,320 --> 01:17:12,439
Speaker 2: do that right, because this is less likely a survival,

1616
01:17:12,640 --> 01:17:16,240
Speaker 2: so your brain can train in the other direction vicious cycle,

1617
01:17:16,560 --> 01:17:17,639
Speaker 2: not in losing weight.

1618
01:17:17,800 --> 01:17:20,599
Speaker 1: And fifth and final question we asked this every guest

1619
01:17:20,640 --> 01:17:23,120
Speaker 1: who's ever been on the show. If you could create

1620
01:17:23,200 --> 01:17:25,960
Speaker 1: one law that everyone in the world had to follow,

1621
01:17:26,160 --> 01:17:26,800
Speaker 1: what would it be.

1622
01:17:27,280 --> 01:17:32,679
Speaker 2: I think that healthy food should always be the cheaper

1623
01:17:32,720 --> 01:17:35,280
Speaker 2: option wherever you go at the moment. That's not true,

1624
01:17:35,400 --> 01:17:38,360
Speaker 2: it's very uneven where at the moment, unhealthy food is cheaper.

1625
01:17:38,680 --> 01:17:43,200
Speaker 2: And so if we want to cure diseases and obesity

1626
01:17:44,080 --> 01:17:47,599
Speaker 2: equitably across the world, regardless of how richer poor you are,

1627
01:17:47,960 --> 01:17:51,040
Speaker 2: then by default the food that you eat must be healthy.

1628
01:17:51,200 --> 01:17:53,000
Speaker 1: Charles, thank you so much for your time and energy.

1629
01:17:53,320 --> 01:17:56,240
Speaker 1: So grateful to connect with you today and learn so

1630
01:17:56,320 --> 01:17:58,599
Speaker 1: many things from you. You blew my mind multiple times,

1631
01:17:58,640 --> 01:18:01,680
Speaker 1: and everyone's been listening or watching. Go and grab the

1632
01:18:01,680 --> 01:18:05,360
Speaker 1: book Why Calories Don't Count. How we got the Science

1633
01:18:05,479 --> 01:18:09,240
Speaker 1: of weight loss wrong, followed Jiles across his podcast and

1634
01:18:09,280 --> 01:18:11,960
Speaker 1: social media. If you don't already, and make sure you

1635
01:18:12,080 --> 01:18:14,680
Speaker 1: tag us on TikTok and Instagram and let us know

1636
01:18:14,920 --> 01:18:17,920
Speaker 1: what you're connecting with what you're experimenting with and what

1637
01:18:17,960 --> 01:18:20,880
Speaker 1: you're trying. I love to see how you're putting all

1638
01:18:20,920 --> 01:18:23,600
Speaker 1: of this insight into action. Thank you so much for

1639
01:18:23,640 --> 01:18:25,920
Speaker 1: angel such a pleasure. Greateful to meet you.

1640
01:18:26,000 --> 01:18:26,720
Speaker 2: Thanks for having me.

1641
01:18:27,080 --> 01:18:30,320
Speaker 1: If this year you're trying to live longer, live happier,

1642
01:18:30,360 --> 01:18:33,519
Speaker 1: live healthier, go and check out my conversation with the

1643
01:18:33,560 --> 01:18:37,960
Speaker 1: world's biggest longevity doctor, Peter Attia on how to slow

1644
01:18:38,040 --> 01:18:42,440
Speaker 1: down aging and why your emotional health is directly impacting

1645
01:18:42,680 --> 01:18:43,799
Speaker 1: your physical health.

1646
01:18:44,080 --> 01:18:48,920
Speaker 2: Acknowledge that there is surprisingly little known about the relationship

1647
01:18:48,960 --> 01:18:50,840
Speaker 2: between nutrition and health, and people are going to be

1648
01:18:50,880 --> 01:18:53,280
Speaker 2: shocked to hear that, because I think most people think

1649
01:18:53,320 --> 01:18:54,200
Speaker 2: the exact opposite