WEBVTT - Goblin Mode 0:00:04.960 --> 0:00:09.360 It's Goblin Mode. Welcome to it could happen here a 0:00:09.440 --> 0:00:13.159 podcast that is today in Goblin Mode. Uh, you know 0:00:13.240 --> 0:00:15.200 what it's about. You've heard to say it like about 0:00:15.200 --> 0:00:20.000 twenty million times. But yeah, I'm your host, Christopher Wong 0:00:20.120 --> 0:00:23.959 and uh with me today we have Juniper, who is 0:00:24.000 --> 0:00:30.960 a really twitter ship post extraordinary extraordinaire, on to discuss language, media, culture, 0:00:31.000 --> 0:00:34.160 of the nature of reality, and Goblin Mode. Junifer, Welcome 0:00:34.159 --> 0:00:38.000 to the show. Hiy, how's it going. It's going good. 0:00:38.000 --> 0:00:42.479 It's going much better since Goblin Mode ceased control of 0:00:42.520 --> 0:00:45.479 the world. We are now living in the age of 0:00:47.560 --> 0:00:53.639 Goblin Mode. And Drew marsh said this morning, apparently it's 0:00:53.840 --> 0:00:58.279 quite a time. I didn't realize just posting with like 0:00:58.960 --> 0:01:02.080 just posting an influence so much around me. I guess 0:01:02.080 --> 0:01:04.840 it's been an interesting time for sure. Yeah. So, so 0:01:04.880 --> 0:01:06.840 I wanted to talk to you about sort of the 0:01:06.880 --> 0:01:10.800 absurdity that is goblin Mode. Um. And I want to 0:01:10.840 --> 0:01:13.120 hold off on talking about what goblin Mode like is 0:01:13.280 --> 0:01:14.960 or isn't for a bit because I think that's actually, 0:01:14.959 --> 0:01:17.560 weirdly the less interesting part. And I want to start 0:01:17.640 --> 0:01:21.720 with instead the story of how goblin Mode became like 0:01:22.120 --> 0:01:26.880 a thing and why I am reading. I keep I 0:01:26.959 --> 0:01:28.959 keep like, every every time I look for more Goblin 0:01:29.000 --> 0:01:33.600 mode headlines, there's more Goblin mode headlines like the I 0:01:33.640 --> 0:01:37.400 think my favorite so far is from Bloomberg. It's a dieselent. 0:01:37.480 --> 0:01:40.760 Diesel prices have gone goblin mode. Forget crude oil. This 0:01:40.800 --> 0:01:43.800 could be the real energy emergency. Yeah, that that is 0:01:43.880 --> 0:01:47.039 by far one of my favorites to uh. The full 0:01:47.040 --> 0:01:50.760 headline too, if you search for that one is it's 0:01:50.760 --> 0:01:53.120 what you said, but then it adds on thanks to 0:01:53.160 --> 0:01:58.480 the Ukraine War, an official Bloilberg headline with goblin mode 0:01:58.480 --> 0:02:02.160 and the Ukraine words. I gotta that's just part of 0:02:02.200 --> 0:02:06.640 my favorite one. Amazing. The other part of three that's 0:02:06.640 --> 0:02:09.760 extremely funny is that so the people who are doing 0:02:09.760 --> 0:02:13.360 these articles keep getting asked someone, and someone's asking like 0:02:13.400 --> 0:02:15.280 an intern to find a picture of a goblin, and 0:02:15.280 --> 0:02:18.640 they keep posting pictures of orcs, which is like enormously 0:02:18.720 --> 0:02:24.359 funny to me. Okay, so I'm not sure what they're 0:02:24.360 --> 0:02:30.280 searching to get those. Yeah, I don't know. It's really incredible. Okay, 0:02:30.320 --> 0:02:32.359 So yeah, I guess that should So we should start 0:02:32.360 --> 0:02:35.480 from the beginning of this story, which is, yeah, can 0:02:35.520 --> 0:02:38.280 you talk about your ship post and uh what you 0:02:38.320 --> 0:02:40.080 were thinking at the time when you made a ship 0:02:40.080 --> 0:02:45.120 post that randomly like has has had months long ripple 0:02:45.160 --> 0:02:51.760 effects on the world. Sure, I think you're right though, 0:02:51.840 --> 0:02:56.000 like the post itself, and that's like the least interesting 0:02:56.080 --> 0:02:59.160 part of all of goblin mode in my opinion as well, 0:02:59.760 --> 0:03:02.160 Like just seeing the ripple effect is what's been super 0:03:02.200 --> 0:03:05.119 interesting and really funny to me. But um sure yeah, 0:03:05.120 --> 0:03:08.960 but the post um basically, I think it was like 0:03:09.040 --> 0:03:13.880 the day that um what Kanye West and Julia Fox, 0:03:13.960 --> 0:03:17.120 which there's a quick note, I've never heard of Julia 0:03:17.200 --> 0:03:20.639 Fox before any of this. So I like sometimes if, 0:03:20.680 --> 0:03:23.160 like you know, Twitter is all talking about one thing, 0:03:23.280 --> 0:03:25.760 the most recent thing being like the Will Smith slap, 0:03:25.919 --> 0:03:28.560 like everyone's talking about that. So whenever like some like 0:03:28.600 --> 0:03:31.520 big event like that is happening and everyone's posting about it, 0:03:31.560 --> 0:03:34.519 I try to like think of some creative different posts 0:03:34.560 --> 0:03:36.040 I can do, you know, just to get in on 0:03:36.080 --> 0:03:39.160 the the discourse or whatever you wanna call it. So 0:03:39.320 --> 0:03:41.960 I just I really don't know what compelled me to 0:03:42.000 --> 0:03:45.040 make a fake headline, but basically, I just I just 0:03:45.080 --> 0:03:47.040 decided to search. I think I was driving home from work, 0:03:47.040 --> 0:03:50.280 and I just decided to search like Kanye West Julia Fox, 0:03:50.960 --> 0:03:53.120 and I just found the first headline and I just 0:03:53.280 --> 0:03:56.720 edited it to say, um, Kanye West doesn't like it 0:03:56.760 --> 0:03:59.760 when Julia Fox goes gobline basically, and that's why they 0:03:59.760 --> 0:04:01.520 broke that was that was the whole lessence of the 0:04:02.080 --> 0:04:05.560 of the post itself. Um, And I really didn't think 0:04:05.600 --> 0:04:09.640 too deeply about it beyond just making the post, and 0:04:09.720 --> 0:04:12.280 it just it caught fire with like I guess what 0:04:12.320 --> 0:04:15.560 we would probably call normal normal Twitter, like people that 0:04:15.600 --> 0:04:19.520 aren't even like necessarily leftists or anything like us. Um, 0:04:19.640 --> 0:04:22.479 it just really caught a hold with the whole of 0:04:22.480 --> 0:04:25.440 Twitter and pretty much like most of the people that 0:04:25.520 --> 0:04:27.040 saw it. You can you can go back and check 0:04:27.080 --> 0:04:29.440 the replies. Most people think it's real at the time 0:04:31.880 --> 0:04:34.640 and replying about all things it's real, and no one, 0:04:34.760 --> 0:04:37.320 like hardly anyone verified it. It was like kind of 0:04:37.360 --> 0:04:43.080 insane to see, Yeah, yeah, I think it's funny because again, 0:04:43.120 --> 0:04:44.599 like you could very you could you could just google 0:04:44.680 --> 0:04:47.120 this right, like you can just google it and it 0:04:47.120 --> 0:04:48.480 would be like, oh wait, ho on, this isn't real, 0:04:48.520 --> 0:04:54.200 But like no one did that, and it was like, yeah, 0:04:54.240 --> 0:04:56.720 like you could have just easily searched the main part 0:04:56.760 --> 0:04:58.880 of the headline, like Kanye West to Julia Fox. It 0:04:58.920 --> 0:05:02.640 was literally the second or third headline you could have 0:05:02.720 --> 0:05:05.320 found the same website, the same author, but seeing that 0:05:05.400 --> 0:05:09.040 it wasn't the correct headline. Although that does remind me 0:05:09.480 --> 0:05:13.400 when there was the initial article about my post um, 0:05:13.440 --> 0:05:17.880 I forget who wrote it. At this point, I think, yes, 0:05:17.960 --> 0:05:21.480 that's right, it was the focus they they they for 0:05:21.520 --> 0:05:24.080 some reason, it made the assumption when they decided when 0:05:24.120 --> 0:05:28.040 they decided to talk about my tweet that the website, 0:05:28.800 --> 0:05:32.799 like the headline that I made made up the original 0:05:32.839 --> 0:05:36.120 website like edited that part out. So they thought that 0:05:36.200 --> 0:05:39.039 my headline was real, but it was just ed and 0:05:39.160 --> 0:05:43.520 taken away. And so that also affected what some people 0:05:43.560 --> 0:05:45.560 thought about it too, Like they thought a lot of 0:05:45.560 --> 0:05:48.440 people thought it was really real. That's that's what's insane 0:05:48.480 --> 0:05:51.360 to me about this. Yeah, and like you and like 0:05:51.360 --> 0:05:53.839 like Vogue like picked this up. This was just like 0:05:53.920 --> 0:05:57.840 a thing that that like everyone has real. Everyone was 0:05:57.880 --> 0:06:01.760 just reporting on it as news and there's so much 0:06:01.880 --> 0:06:05.360 like there's so much like incredible stuff about this like 0:06:05.920 --> 0:06:10.480 part of it. You know, So what if the articles 0:06:11.360 --> 0:06:13.599 that that gets published about this like after, so like 0:06:13.600 --> 0:06:16.200 there's this initial period where everyone is running around going like, 0:06:16.240 --> 0:06:18.920 oh my god, it was goblin mode, and then Julia 0:06:18.960 --> 0:06:22.480 Fox has to make a statement that's like no, there 0:06:22.600 --> 0:06:25.920 was no goblin Mode. No one said this. Yeah, yeah, 0:06:25.920 --> 0:06:28.840 that's That's the interesting about like the evolution of goblin Mode, 0:06:29.279 --> 0:06:32.960 like stemming from my post specifically, is at first the 0:06:32.960 --> 0:06:35.880 coverage was talking about whether my post was real or 0:06:35.880 --> 0:06:39.680 fake and talking about that aspect of it. But as 0:06:39.720 --> 0:06:42.240 time has gone on, it's kind of evolved away from that, 0:06:42.279 --> 0:06:44.920 Like you you won't see any goblin Mode article talk 0:06:45.000 --> 0:06:48.400 about the original like Julia fox tweet that jump started 0:06:48.400 --> 0:06:51.320 this whole thing anymore. It's kind of like shifted away 0:06:52.160 --> 0:06:55.640 from that initial, that initial post, which I found really 0:06:55.680 --> 0:06:59.640 interesting that that's what sustaining this. I feel like, yeah, 0:07:00.040 --> 0:07:05.279 wanted to read a uh, I wanted to read a 0:07:05.360 --> 0:07:07.760 passage from one of the art I don't know why 0:07:07.760 --> 0:07:10.960 I'm calling it a passage. It's just like a sentence, 0:07:11.200 --> 0:07:13.560 but read part of one of the articles that that 0:07:13.640 --> 0:07:15.640 came from up from the the initial search, which is 0:07:15.680 --> 0:07:19.480 from the streetwear company called high Snobby. Don't tell me 0:07:19.520 --> 0:07:23.280 if I'm like pronouncing that wrong. Uh, well, okay, that's 0:07:23.320 --> 0:07:25.320 not not your Twitter. If I'm pronouncing that wrong, My 0:07:25.360 --> 0:07:31.800 Twitter is at I right, okay, yell there, Um yeah, 0:07:31.880 --> 0:07:34.120 but I want I want to read this quote because 0:07:34.120 --> 0:07:36.440 I think it's interesting. So the article, they have this 0:07:36.480 --> 0:07:38.680 whole thing that's like, Okay, they get to the denial, 0:07:38.760 --> 0:07:40.560 they post your tweet about like, oh my god, I 0:07:40.560 --> 0:07:42.320 can't believe Julia Fox had to respond to this, and 0:07:42.360 --> 0:07:45.320 then they say, I'm not saying Fox was lying, but 0:07:45.440 --> 0:07:49.000 wearing a borderline not suited for work dress, a purse 0:07:49.040 --> 0:07:52.160 trimmed and human DNA and d I y I make 0:07:52.240 --> 0:07:54.880 up to an Oscar's after party. Is goblin mode to 0:07:54.960 --> 0:07:58.880 a t? And I think this brings up an interesting question, 0:07:59.200 --> 0:08:02.120 which is to what extent was goblin mode real in 0:08:02.160 --> 0:08:04.960 the first place before You're sort of mean to went 0:08:05.040 --> 0:08:11.400 went viral? So like the phrase itself, you mean, yeah, yeah, 0:08:11.400 --> 0:08:15.040 like what part of the phrase existed before my post? Yeah? 0:08:15.080 --> 0:08:17.080 And I think it was also like, what what were 0:08:17.120 --> 0:08:19.560 you thinking, Like did you have like a conception of 0:08:19.560 --> 0:08:22.520 what goblin mode like was before you made the post? 0:08:25.760 --> 0:08:28.040 So so the only thing I had in my mind 0:08:28.080 --> 0:08:32.400 at that point. Um, it's it stems from specifically um, 0:08:32.520 --> 0:08:36.160 do you do you know the user on Twitter hottie pants? 0:08:36.960 --> 0:08:39.920 Do you happen to know that guy? I don't think so. 0:08:40.840 --> 0:08:43.600 Now he goes by I think his ad is like 0:08:43.600 --> 0:08:47.640 punished Pants or something like that. But anyways, he around 0:08:47.679 --> 0:08:49.839 that time, he was posting a lot about like goblins. 0:08:50.160 --> 0:08:52.120 He was He would post a lot about like goblin 0:08:52.200 --> 0:08:54.160 time and like it's oh, it's Goblin time, and he 0:08:54.200 --> 0:08:56.319 would just make like a bunch of just like posts 0:08:56.360 --> 0:08:58.920 like that. So goblins were on my mind at that point. 0:08:58.960 --> 0:09:02.480 And then I forget his user name, but his um 0:09:02.520 --> 0:09:07.400 I think his user name is um uncontrolled. I forget 0:09:07.480 --> 0:09:09.600 his user I'll have to tell you afterwards or something. 0:09:10.160 --> 0:09:12.240 I don't remember off the top of my head, but 0:09:12.440 --> 0:09:15.280 he he made a post that went viral, uh, something 0:09:15.320 --> 0:09:19.160 to the effect of like um, your honor, UM. I 0:09:19.240 --> 0:09:20.880 was going goblin mode at that time, you know that 0:09:20.960 --> 0:09:24.520 format that's like you're in court excuses like, oh, I'm 0:09:24.520 --> 0:09:27.080 going goblin mode. It really in my head, that's really 0:09:27.120 --> 0:09:30.560 the only reference I had, So I didn't make up 0:09:30.559 --> 0:09:32.400 the phrase. A lot of people think I made up 0:09:32.400 --> 0:09:36.720 the phrase goblin mode, which I definitely did not. UM, 0:09:36.840 --> 0:09:39.040 But I think just there was a lot of people 0:09:39.040 --> 0:09:41.920 posting about goblins around that time, like early in mid March, 0:09:42.520 --> 0:09:44.720 and I just in my mind, I was like, oh, 0:09:44.760 --> 0:09:47.880 you know, I'm just gonna say Goblin Mode on this 0:09:47.880 --> 0:09:50.400 this ship post on Fox. I don't I really don't 0:09:50.400 --> 0:09:52.599 know why. It's just the first thing that popped in 0:09:52.679 --> 0:09:55.000 my head. And whenever something pops in my head, like 0:09:55.160 --> 0:09:57.120 a tweet idea, and I laughed myself, I'm like, okay, 0:09:57.160 --> 0:09:59.320 I should post it. I don't know, and it seemed 0:09:59.360 --> 0:10:03.240 to work. Did you end up? So one of the 0:10:03.320 --> 0:10:04.920 things one of the things I think is really interesting 0:10:05.000 --> 0:10:07.840 is that, right, So okay, so you have you have 0:10:07.960 --> 0:10:10.880 your first wave of like it's the Goblin Mode thing, 0:10:10.920 --> 0:10:12.560 and then you have your second wave articles that are 0:10:12.559 --> 0:10:16.080 trying to explain what goblin Mode is. And I was 0:10:16.160 --> 0:10:18.480 I was wondering if you'd see if you'd actually even 0:10:18.600 --> 0:10:21.920 seen the post. I just liked link to the chat um. 0:10:21.960 --> 0:10:24.880 There was like, like the thing I'd seen from goblin 0:10:24.920 --> 0:10:28.199 Mode before this, like all started, was this like Reddit 0:10:28.440 --> 0:10:31.240 was someone on Twitter had a tweet that went viral 0:10:31.400 --> 0:10:34.000 about goblin Mode and it was about just like someone 0:10:34.120 --> 0:10:35.920 It was about this Reddit post of like someone creeping 0:10:35.960 --> 0:10:41.080 around their house and pretending and acting like a goblin. Yes, yes, 0:10:41.520 --> 0:10:44.080 So I didn't see that until I made my post, 0:10:44.520 --> 0:10:47.800 like in my initial because I think someone linked it 0:10:47.920 --> 0:10:50.120 under my post and I was like, oh, Ship, this 0:10:50.160 --> 0:10:51.960 is just like a thing, Like this is actually like 0:10:52.000 --> 0:10:54.079 a thing. And then I started popping off more because 0:10:54.120 --> 0:10:56.600 people saw that reply. I'm real like, oh Ship, this 0:10:56.679 --> 0:10:59.599 is like actually a thing. And to my surprise, that 0:10:59.679 --> 0:11:02.480 likely worked out for me, Like everything kind of just 0:11:02.840 --> 0:11:06.600 came together and a really insane fashion. Oh that's another 0:11:06.640 --> 0:11:08.920 tweet to the one that you linked. That's when I 0:11:08.960 --> 0:11:10.920 was going, That's when I was in goblin one that 0:11:11.280 --> 0:11:13.920 came before my tweet too. Yeah, had you had you 0:11:14.000 --> 0:11:18.199 seen that one before you made it? I follow her, 0:11:19.240 --> 0:11:21.520 I followed Telgore. I might have seen it. I don't remember. 0:11:21.559 --> 0:11:25.040 I remember the other one I was resferencing before. Um, 0:11:25.320 --> 0:11:28.000 I might have seen this one now, Yeah, like I 0:11:28.000 --> 0:11:30.000 I think like that. That was what was interesting to 0:11:30.000 --> 0:11:33.640 me about this was that, like the moment it went viral, 0:11:34.080 --> 0:11:37.920 there was this whole sort of like attempt because there 0:11:37.960 --> 0:11:39.920 was an attempt to figure out what it is, and 0:11:39.920 --> 0:11:42.319 then there was an attempt to like back project a 0:11:42.440 --> 0:11:44.280 history on it, and so you get a lot of 0:11:44.280 --> 0:11:45.640 these articles and you get a lot of people like 0:11:45.760 --> 0:11:47.160 I don't know, like I would talk to people about 0:11:47.160 --> 0:11:49.520 this and they would like, you know, okay, so they 0:11:49.520 --> 0:11:51.240 do this thing where it's like okay, so they go 0:11:51.320 --> 0:11:54.000 to know your meme, they look at the Google trends, 0:11:54.160 --> 0:11:57.880 and then like the people sort of like, you know, okay, 0:11:57.880 --> 0:12:00.280 Like there was an urban Dictionary thing from like two 0:12:00.320 --> 0:12:02.320 thousand nine that was like a completely like a weird 0:12:02.320 --> 0:12:05.160 sex thing. It was like completely unrelated to this, but 0:12:05.200 --> 0:12:09.480 it was interesting to me the way that people like, Okay, 0:12:09.520 --> 0:12:13.040 so you have this thing that goes viral, right, and 0:12:13.080 --> 0:12:16.520 like you're just sucking around like there's no act, like 0:12:16.559 --> 0:12:21.640 it's just sounds cool. But then like yeah, there's an 0:12:21.640 --> 0:12:23.960 extent to which it becomes this like you know, it 0:12:23.960 --> 0:12:26.560 gets into the sort of like viralty machine. And so 0:12:26.600 --> 0:12:28.959 you have all these journalists who like have to cover 0:12:29.040 --> 0:12:30.599 it right because like, you know, the other way the 0:12:30.640 --> 0:12:34.640 journalism boddle works is okay, so you have this trend, right, 0:12:35.000 --> 0:12:37.200 people can see it trending. You see something on Twitter, 0:12:38.040 --> 0:12:40.520 you do like four sets of Googles, and you write 0:12:40.520 --> 0:12:43.560 an article about it, and it's like, well, okay, because 0:12:43.600 --> 0:12:45.959 they're trying, you're trying to capitalize on on the clicks 0:12:46.000 --> 0:12:47.880 as fast as possible. So when someone googles what is 0:12:47.920 --> 0:12:50.240 goblin mode, it's like, Okay, your thing comes up. But 0:12:50.240 --> 0:12:52.240 it's interesting because it's like it's like they have to 0:12:52.280 --> 0:12:55.800 fill the content in because there isn't any Yeah. Yeah, 0:12:55.840 --> 0:12:58.440 that's what it was interesting about the specific that first one, 0:12:58.520 --> 0:13:00.680 the focus article, it was just a lot of like 0:13:00.840 --> 0:13:05.000 filling in where there was really nothing. Yeah, that's what's 0:13:05.000 --> 0:13:07.840 interesting about that. Yeah. And then and then like after that, 0:13:07.960 --> 0:13:10.559 like all the other articles are like you get to 0:13:10.559 --> 0:13:13.760 see this proliferation of how the media works where it's like, okay, 0:13:13.800 --> 0:13:16.240 so you have the initial article, the initial article google 0:13:16.320 --> 0:13:19.040 some stuff and it's basically just making it up because 0:13:19.040 --> 0:13:21.439 they're they're trying to like give coherence or like give 0:13:21.520 --> 0:13:24.679 am meeting to an empty signifier. And then after that, 0:13:24.760 --> 0:13:27.400 it's like all of the other articles are just copying 0:13:27.440 --> 0:13:29.720 off of the first article, and you get this like 0:13:29.800 --> 0:13:33.520 Ora Boris of like everyone just is repeating the same 0:13:33.559 --> 0:13:35.640 thing over and over again, and none of them seem 0:13:35.760 --> 0:13:38.800 to understand that, like it was not that the thing 0:13:38.840 --> 0:13:46.240 that they originally talking about was just kind of like 0:13:46.280 --> 0:13:49.800 that's really all it was, and it's it is interesting 0:13:49.800 --> 0:13:52.560 to see how it is just able to proliferate off 0:13:52.600 --> 0:13:55.280 of as you as you were saying, they just google 0:13:55.280 --> 0:13:57.920 search urban, they find an urban dictionary and it's like 0:13:58.679 --> 0:14:02.480 my article urban diction. There is a good source. Yeah, 0:14:02.559 --> 0:14:05.439 and like I think this this is I mean I 0:14:05.480 --> 0:14:07.280 think there's there's like a few interesting things here, one 0:14:07.320 --> 0:14:11.200 of which is about how yeah, like I had this before, 0:14:11.400 --> 0:14:12.760 Like I'm not sure if I actually talked about this 0:14:12.760 --> 0:14:14.960 on the show. So the day of the Atlantis shooting, 0:14:15.960 --> 0:14:18.679 Garrison and I spent a lot of time trying to 0:14:18.679 --> 0:14:21.880 like track down the shooter and there was there was 0:14:21.880 --> 0:14:24.920 this like fake Facebook post that was going around and 0:14:25.280 --> 0:14:26.720 you know, Garrison I had spent like a lot of 0:14:26.760 --> 0:14:28.720 time looking for this guy and okay, well we realized 0:14:28.760 --> 0:14:31.040 that this guy just doesn't have a Facebook, right, and 0:14:31.040 --> 0:14:32.800 so we were like so like I was like look 0:14:32.800 --> 0:14:34.560 at this, Like I saw his fake Facebook post. I 0:14:34.560 --> 0:14:37.720 was like, oh, this is fake. And then like a 0:14:37.800 --> 0:14:40.480 bunch of a bunch of like a bunch of like 0:14:40.480 --> 0:14:43.360 actual journalists like found you know people because journalists have 0:14:43.400 --> 0:14:46.160 been passing around the fake Facebook post as like this 0:14:46.240 --> 0:14:47.720 is a post alleged to be a thing. And then 0:14:47.720 --> 0:14:49.600 and then suddenly they were like, oh hey this is fake. 0:14:49.640 --> 0:14:52.360 Hey you can see all these things like oh look, 0:14:52.440 --> 0:14:56.320 it's like uh, you know, like there was like the 0:14:58.960 --> 0:15:00.960 it was pretty clear of it. His face had been 0:15:00.960 --> 0:15:03.640 copied and pasted into like a thing that's it was 0:15:03.680 --> 0:15:05.440 supposed to look like a Facebook post because there was 0:15:05.440 --> 0:15:07.160 all these like minor details about that, which is wrong, 0:15:07.160 --> 0:15:09.440 and it was like, okay, so this isn't real. But 0:15:09.720 --> 0:15:12.160 the media cycle of it was like all of these 0:15:12.200 --> 0:15:15.320 people I saw my Twitter post that was like this 0:15:15.400 --> 0:15:17.240 is fake, and then they just wrote a story off 0:15:17.280 --> 0:15:18.880 of it and like never mentioned that that that they 0:15:18.960 --> 0:15:22.560 literally got it from like me fucking around on Twitter. 0:15:23.200 --> 0:15:27.360 Like it's like and it's like and it's like you 0:15:27.360 --> 0:15:32.600 look at this stuff. And the extent to which these 0:15:32.640 --> 0:15:35.520 people are just like these people who are journalist, who 0:15:35.520 --> 0:15:37.040 are you know, supposed to people journalists are just like 0:15:37.120 --> 0:15:40.080 woefully unprepared. Even people even who people who are extremely 0:15:40.080 --> 0:15:44.120 online like winds up being woefully unprepared to deal with 0:15:45.560 --> 0:15:49.920 like anything like that. They're woefully unprepared to deal with 0:15:49.920 --> 0:15:53.080 anything of any complexity or deal or like figure out 0:15:53.120 --> 0:15:57.840 that they're being like hoaxed. Yeah, yeah, no, you're you're 0:15:57.960 --> 0:15:59.840 you're really right about that. I mean, I mean I 0:16:00.000 --> 0:16:02.040 think this it's I don't know what I would call 0:16:02.040 --> 0:16:05.520 this phenomena, but there's definitely something there where it's like 0:16:05.680 --> 0:16:09.320 they we'll see something like I don't know, I don't 0:16:09.320 --> 0:16:12.520 know what it is about specifically Twitter that like I 0:16:12.560 --> 0:16:15.920 feel like that's where a lot of people get news 0:16:15.960 --> 0:16:17.520 just in general. But I feel like a lot of 0:16:17.600 --> 0:16:21.960 journalists just assume anything that they see. Maybe I'm over generalizing, 0:16:22.000 --> 0:16:25.000 but if they see something on Twitter, even if it's 0:16:25.000 --> 0:16:28.160 like a joke, like they'll just assume it's real or something. 0:16:28.280 --> 0:16:31.280 I'm not. I'm not entirely sure. Like it's super easy 0:16:31.320 --> 0:16:33.040 to make a fake post. I do it all the time. 0:16:33.200 --> 0:16:36.040 I make all sorts of like fake fake things. Most 0:16:36.080 --> 0:16:37.960 of them are more obvious than Goblin But I guess, 0:16:38.880 --> 0:16:41.360 but I don't know that they're I don't want to 0:16:41.360 --> 0:16:46.880 say journalists are too trusting. Yeah. Well, and I will say, 0:16:46.880 --> 0:16:49.240 like there are times where it's genuine, Like when when 0:16:49.240 --> 0:16:52.080 you first started posting the headlines of like the actual 0:16:52.120 --> 0:16:54.400 Twitter articles that were about Goblin mode, I like I 0:16:54.400 --> 0:16:56.080 didn't do about it. Looking too, because I just assume 0:16:56.120 --> 0:17:01.800 they were fake. Yeah, lot of people told me, like, 0:17:01.880 --> 0:17:05.480 I think specifically, the the one that like most of 0:17:05.520 --> 0:17:08.080 my followers realized that they weren't fake anymore was the 0:17:08.119 --> 0:17:13.200 one that was like, um as a disabled uh woman, 0:17:13.640 --> 0:17:18.800 goblin mode. This goblin mode trend is really problematic, and 0:17:18.880 --> 0:17:21.280 people people decided to look that one up and we're like, oh, 0:17:21.320 --> 0:17:23.119 it's real. And then everyone was like, wait, we're all 0:17:23.160 --> 0:17:24.879 these other ones that you were posting real and I'm 0:17:24.920 --> 0:17:32.240 like they were all real, Julia Fox one real. It 0:17:32.400 --> 0:17:36.000 was different. Agencies have been all these news organizations have 0:17:36.080 --> 0:17:40.320 been writing all this insane shit about nothing. Yeah, and 0:17:40.480 --> 0:17:42.280 there's there's you know, I mean, I think that this 0:17:42.680 --> 0:17:44.359 one is funny just because like yeah, I mean like 0:17:44.400 --> 0:17:47.159 it's goblin mode, right, like it's it's it's it's just funny, 0:17:47.240 --> 0:17:49.199 like there's no like yeah. But but I mean I 0:17:49.200 --> 0:17:51.360 think that there's an interesting thing that happens with with 0:17:51.440 --> 0:17:54.200 the specifically the disabilities one, because the disabilities one isn't 0:17:54.600 --> 0:17:58.199 like it's basically about something completely different that the Goblin 0:17:58.200 --> 0:18:00.560 Mode things spawned, which is that like, like the the 0:18:00.560 --> 0:18:03.800 other thing that happened with Goblin Mode was that. Okay, 0:18:03.800 --> 0:18:06.199 so people saw a goblin mode and then physicularly on 0:18:06.240 --> 0:18:08.640 like TikTok Um. I don't I don't know if they 0:18:08.720 --> 0:18:12.240 knew where it came from, but like people like people 0:18:12.680 --> 0:18:15.960 turns goblin mode into an actual thing, where like it 0:18:16.000 --> 0:18:19.720 became this thing about like I like, I think I 0:18:19.720 --> 0:18:22.520 think this is also influenced by like some of the 0:18:22.640 --> 0:18:25.160 like ship post answers that you gave the media people 0:18:25.200 --> 0:18:27.200 that were like goblin boe could be whatever you want. 0:18:28.080 --> 0:18:30.919 It's when you aren't awake of the pedel or like 0:18:30.960 --> 0:18:33.240 you're not doing your makeup in the pandemic or whatever 0:18:33.880 --> 0:18:40.199 like yeah, but but but it's interesting field like that. 0:18:40.800 --> 0:18:43.160 I really don't know if the TikTok's thing came before 0:18:43.240 --> 0:18:47.920 or after. I really I think it's after. Yeah, from 0:18:47.960 --> 0:18:50.560 what I've seen, it's it seems like it actually became 0:18:50.560 --> 0:18:52.639 a thing after. And that was really interesting to me too, 0:18:52.680 --> 0:18:55.840 because it was like it's this way in which, like 0:18:57.320 --> 0:19:00.600 you know, okay, so you start running into these sort 0:19:00.600 --> 0:19:03.760 of like fundamental problems about the nature of reality where 0:19:03.760 --> 0:19:07.320 it's like, okay, so we made this thing that is fake, right, 0:19:07.880 --> 0:19:11.600 but then it became real because enough enough people believed 0:19:11.640 --> 0:19:14.679 it was real that it turned into a thing that 0:19:14.680 --> 0:19:16.600 people actually use to describe stuff, and then you know 0:19:16.600 --> 0:19:18.679 that that's how you get to like you get a 0:19:18.680 --> 0:19:21.639 bunch of people complaining about how like there was an 0:19:21.680 --> 0:19:25.040 article that was like the great resignation and going goblin 0:19:25.080 --> 0:19:27.200 mode or like the two great threats to employers is 0:19:27.200 --> 0:19:32.280 they try to force people back to work, Like yeah, 0:19:32.320 --> 0:19:37.600 it's it's like the goblin mode, like self manifested into reality. 0:19:37.720 --> 0:19:39.920 Like I feel like a lot of journalists are saying, 0:19:40.000 --> 0:19:42.560 like people being lazy and like, you know how the 0:19:43.000 --> 0:19:45.280 whole meme of like oh, no one wants to work anymore. 0:19:45.680 --> 0:19:47.040 I feel like a lot of people are trying to 0:19:47.119 --> 0:19:49.800 like attributing like oh, not wanting to work and being 0:19:49.880 --> 0:19:53.480 lazy to goblin mode. And it's it's self manifested through 0:19:53.520 --> 0:19:55.879 the media or TikTok or whatever whatever it may be. 0:19:56.480 --> 0:19:59.560 I actually don't know, but it's it's become a thing 0:19:59.600 --> 0:20:02.840 now and in a really strange way. Yeah. Yeah, And 0:20:02.880 --> 0:20:04.280 I think I think this is like this is an 0:20:04.320 --> 0:20:06.199 interesting way of looking like, you know, like this was 0:20:06.280 --> 0:20:10.159 the whole sort of like like in in terms of 0:20:10.200 --> 0:20:15.560 like okay, insofar as posting can actually affect reality, which 0:20:15.640 --> 0:20:17.879 it can, but not as much as people seem to 0:20:17.920 --> 0:20:20.600 think like there are there are there are people who 0:20:20.720 --> 0:20:24.040 like seem to think that like the three letter agencies 0:20:24.040 --> 0:20:26.880 care what they post on Twitter, which is like it's 0:20:26.920 --> 0:20:28.480 like no, no, no, hold on, hold on. If if 0:20:28.480 --> 0:20:32.560 we post correctly interventions, it won't happen. It's like if 0:20:32.600 --> 0:20:35.880 you seen the c I A like like like there's 0:20:35.960 --> 0:20:39.000 there's this whole thing where it's like, you know, I 0:20:39.040 --> 0:20:42.000 mean this, it's okay, this this is gonna be the 0:20:42.080 --> 0:20:44.440 like someone's gonna pull this out of context and be like, hey, 0:20:44.480 --> 0:20:45.800 look at I do Chris is but like you know, 0:20:45.960 --> 0:20:47.440 like this is this is kind of what happened with Trump, 0:20:47.440 --> 0:20:49.120 which like this is this isn't like what the meme 0:20:49.160 --> 0:20:51.720 magic was like if you just mean something long enough, 0:20:52.240 --> 0:20:53.920 you can kind of turn it into reality by just 0:20:53.960 --> 0:20:57.520 sort of convincing enough people that it's real that it 0:20:57.720 --> 0:20:59.560 and and you know and once you've done that, like 0:20:59.640 --> 0:21:04.399 you you have effectively made the thing real. Right. It 0:21:04.480 --> 0:21:06.400 was interesting about this one is is just like it's 0:21:06.440 --> 0:21:08.040 like a lot of people like do that on purpose, right, 0:21:08.040 --> 0:21:09.359 Like this is how this is like there's a lot 0:21:09.400 --> 0:21:11.399 of propaganda stuff that works like this or like, you know, 0:21:11.440 --> 0:21:14.000 this is like what the meme like before Chan Trump 0:21:14.040 --> 0:21:16.800 bullshit was like you just just like completely like as 0:21:16.800 --> 0:21:20.800 a joke on accidents. Yeah, I didn't. I didn't attend this. 0:21:20.840 --> 0:21:22.520 I just mean I just wanted to make a one 0:21:22.560 --> 0:21:25.240 off joke. Yeah I didn't think that would happen. But 0:21:25.280 --> 0:21:27.920 you're you're you're totally right about the whole Like I don't. 0:21:27.960 --> 0:21:29.840 I don't know how much like the Trump magic was 0:21:29.960 --> 0:21:33.639 really a self manifestation of him kind of just winning 0:21:33.680 --> 0:21:36.960 the election and becoming popular with a certain people. But 0:21:37.040 --> 0:21:40.520 it definitely feels like like that self manifestation of like 0:21:40.600 --> 0:21:44.600 posting to a certain extent really can become real if 0:21:44.600 --> 0:21:46.399 it's just like hits a certain site, guyst of some 0:21:46.560 --> 0:21:48.919 sort and like they just didn't. I think a crucial 0:21:48.960 --> 0:21:50.480 part of it is it needs to get picked up 0:21:50.480 --> 0:21:54.399 by the media and taken seriously by journalists specifically, because 0:21:54.480 --> 0:21:57.359 the thing that really, uh, I feel like broke the 0:21:57.400 --> 0:22:00.920 camel's back for Goblin about specifically was the first journalist 0:22:01.040 --> 0:22:04.159 that reached out to me because she she wanted to 0:22:04.200 --> 0:22:07.240 interview me about the whole, the whole experience like and 0:22:07.520 --> 0:22:09.840 her coverage of it was about the whole fake main thing, 0:22:09.840 --> 0:22:12.600 and then how it became sort of a thing in 0:22:12.760 --> 0:22:18.920 that aspect um, and then um from there, they all 0:22:18.960 --> 0:22:21.760 a lot of different journalists and websites referred back to 0:22:21.760 --> 0:22:24.120 that article, and now it seems to be the one 0:22:24.240 --> 0:22:27.720 that everyone's referring to now is the Guardian article about 0:22:27.760 --> 0:22:30.000 it that seems to be like a media's favorite piece 0:22:30.040 --> 0:22:32.280 about it, which is the one that talks more about 0:22:32.280 --> 0:22:35.680 it being like a lifestyle trend. And I think that's 0:22:35.720 --> 0:22:38.600 where it really went off, is when like some people 0:22:40.080 --> 0:22:42.919 took in the TikTok aspect of it and kind of 0:22:42.960 --> 0:22:54.320 manifested it that way. I think it's a couple of 0:22:54.320 --> 0:22:58.520 interesting political consequences of this, one of which is that like, 0:22:58.520 --> 0:23:01.680 like Twitter as a platform isn't really I mean, since 0:23:01.680 --> 0:23:04.199 Trump got banned, it's kind of like it hasn't really 0:23:04.280 --> 0:23:09.600 been where most like stuff is happening, like TikTok is exploding. 0:23:09.840 --> 0:23:11.959 I mean, you still like the boomers on Facebook. Like 0:23:12.000 --> 0:23:14.320 it hasn't like it hasn't been the sort of like 0:23:14.400 --> 0:23:17.320 driving force of politics that normally is. But the one 0:23:17.359 --> 0:23:19.120 thing that it has is that all of the journalists 0:23:19.160 --> 0:23:22.160 are still on there, and that means that like yeah, 0:23:22.160 --> 0:23:24.040 like there's all these weird political concequences. Were like, yeah, 0:23:24.080 --> 0:23:26.640 you can sort of like like you can just sort 0:23:26.640 --> 0:23:30.880 of will things into existence by convincing journalists that it's real. 0:23:31.880 --> 0:23:35.480 And that's I think really scary in a lot of 0:23:35.480 --> 0:23:38.159 ways for because you know, like the people who are 0:23:38.160 --> 0:23:39.879 really really good at the sort of manipulation or right 0:23:39.920 --> 0:23:42.639 wingers and right wingers could have sort of like like 0:23:42.680 --> 0:23:45.000 I don't know, like I people are probably mad about 0:23:45.000 --> 0:23:46.240 me for this, but like one of the things that 0:23:46.280 --> 0:23:50.040 I remember from like God was just two dozen sixteen. 0:23:51.320 --> 0:23:54.080 It was like there was this whole discourse about like, uh, 0:23:54.240 --> 0:23:57.960 like there's a bunch of like all a bunch of 0:23:58.000 --> 0:23:59.920 people are really mad about like there being a black 0:24:00.000 --> 0:24:06.600 storm Trooper and Star Wars, yeah, the whole Yeah that's 0:24:06.600 --> 0:24:08.919 interesting about it was like yeah, I think I think 0:24:08.920 --> 0:24:11.719 that was just yeah, yeah, there there. There's the thing 0:24:11.720 --> 0:24:14.000 that was interesting about it was like so I know 0:24:14.000 --> 0:24:16.960 people who like who like looked into it beforehand, and 0:24:17.000 --> 0:24:18.720 it was like the only people who were talking about 0:24:18.760 --> 0:24:21.159 this it was like people who were confused because they 0:24:21.200 --> 0:24:24.000 thought that stormtroopers were all clones and we're like wait, 0:24:24.000 --> 0:24:26.800 why wait and then and the other thing there are 0:24:26.800 --> 0:24:28.359 other group of people who were mad about this was 0:24:28.400 --> 0:24:32.520 storm Front, and store Front was able to like turn 0:24:32.680 --> 0:24:36.240 this into like like a discourse, like they able to 0:24:36.440 --> 0:24:38.320 they were ably convinced journalists like this was a real 0:24:38.320 --> 0:24:40.080 thing that like a significant number people are mad about, 0:24:40.080 --> 0:24:41.560 and then it like actually turned into a thing that 0:24:41.560 --> 0:24:43.520 a significant number of people are mad about. Because you 0:24:43.520 --> 0:24:46.160 can sort of just like like you you can start 0:24:46.240 --> 0:24:48.200 these like panics and like this is one of the 0:24:48.200 --> 0:24:50.520 things we're talking about in our trans episodes were like, 0:24:51.160 --> 0:24:55.160 you know, a fairly small network of well funded people 0:24:55.760 --> 0:25:00.800 can cause like enormous swass of the US you just 0:25:01.080 --> 0:25:05.880 lose their ship and get extremely violent and get like 0:25:05.920 --> 0:25:08.000 you know, and and and the specific thing they're mad 0:25:08.040 --> 0:25:11.440 about changes like pretty frequently. But you can just sort 0:25:11.480 --> 0:25:15.640 of like if if you're able to manipulate the media 0:25:15.680 --> 0:25:17.440 well enough and you you know that there's other ways 0:25:17.440 --> 0:25:18.719 to do is like you know, you could do it 0:25:18.760 --> 0:25:21.600 by like weird memes. You can do it by you know, 0:25:21.760 --> 0:25:24.280 being the cops, or just like having press releases that 0:25:24.320 --> 0:25:25.840 you send out you can have you can do it 0:25:25.840 --> 0:25:29.000 through like these sort of like astro turf, Like I 0:25:29.000 --> 0:25:31.040 don't know, you have like an astro turf intellectual like 0:25:31.160 --> 0:25:35.240 what's his name, markat Ufo, But it's it's it's interesting 0:25:35.280 --> 0:25:38.080 to me that like they all seem to work, like 0:25:38.160 --> 0:25:40.919 the pathway through it all seems to be very similar. 0:25:40.960 --> 0:25:42.680 Which is what you do is you convince a bunch 0:25:42.680 --> 0:25:45.560 of media people or something is real, and then once 0:25:45.640 --> 0:25:48.520 once they start taking it seriously, it sort of manifests 0:25:48.520 --> 0:25:53.280 itself into reality. Yeah, I know that, that is what 0:25:53.400 --> 0:25:55.639 I realized what was happening, Like I one of my 0:25:55.760 --> 0:25:58.920 initial points that I was trying to make after um 0:25:59.040 --> 0:26:01.720 the whole goblin thing. After the first article came out, 0:26:01.720 --> 0:26:04.200 I was like, it really made me realized, like how 0:26:04.240 --> 0:26:07.960 potent fake I hate saying this phrase just because it's 0:26:08.000 --> 0:26:11.600 become such like a nothing sort of phrase, but like 0:26:11.640 --> 0:26:14.199 fake news, how how easy it is to just like 0:26:14.320 --> 0:26:17.640 what if instead of goblin mode? I decided like, let's 0:26:17.640 --> 0:26:20.440 say I'm like a crazy right winger and I had 0:26:20.600 --> 0:26:23.840 this weird sgeist moments causing a panic about like trans people, 0:26:23.880 --> 0:26:27.080 and I made like a fake tweet like that you 0:26:27.160 --> 0:26:29.040 would we see that happened all the time, like trans 0:26:29.080 --> 0:26:32.320 people pee. A lot of people hate us um, and 0:26:32.600 --> 0:26:36.200 it would be super easy. Put it in the right community. Um, 0:26:36.480 --> 0:26:40.040 make this fake tweet or a fake headline, and people 0:26:40.240 --> 0:26:42.920 right wing or specifically will go wild and it'll really 0:26:42.920 --> 0:26:45.200 influence the discourse. I mean, look at the current I 0:26:45.240 --> 0:26:47.679 mean it's it's kind of over now. But the last 0:26:48.200 --> 0:26:51.919 it was last week the swimmer, the trans swimmer, that 0:26:52.080 --> 0:26:55.919 was the women's competition. I mean, the amount of vitriol 0:26:56.160 --> 0:26:58.719 that was able to be created over that, just like 0:26:58.760 --> 0:27:01.000 imagine what like as you had like a well funded, 0:27:01.119 --> 0:27:05.520 tight network of um but I don't know, but for 0:27:05.640 --> 0:27:07.920 lack of a better phrase, like fake news creators just 0:27:08.640 --> 0:27:11.000 all they need to do is put something out on Facebook, 0:27:11.240 --> 0:27:15.560 the boomers see it, and then it's over. What One 0:27:15.560 --> 0:27:17.560 of the things I learned about, like well, I was 0:27:17.560 --> 0:27:21.639 doing research for Weirdly an episode about Reverend Moon, was 0:27:21.640 --> 0:27:24.159 that like people figured so this is sort of like 0:27:24.200 --> 0:27:25.760 this is like how the Republicans came to power, Like 0:27:25.760 --> 0:27:27.119 that they figured out you could do shoot like this 0:27:27.160 --> 0:27:31.080 and like rubber Fugieri like in like in like the 0:27:31.119 --> 0:27:34.080 sixties figured out that like if you just if you 0:27:34.200 --> 0:27:38.840 sent like you could just send letters to like they work. 0:27:38.880 --> 0:27:40.240 I guess there were't even boomers up if you just 0:27:40.280 --> 0:27:43.040 send letters to old people that would say stuff like 0:27:43.400 --> 0:27:46.359 a planned parenthood is harvesting baby fetuses. You could just 0:27:46.359 --> 0:27:49.359 get the really mad and it's like and it's funny 0:27:49.359 --> 0:27:51.080 because you know in the cities, like he's he's doing 0:27:51.160 --> 0:27:54.120 this like by mail, right, like he is mailing you 0:27:54.560 --> 0:27:59.560 a chain letter. It's just stuff. Yeah, it became just 0:27:59.680 --> 0:28:03.359 like a product amount. Yeah. Yeah. It's like it's like 0:28:03.600 --> 0:28:05.600 it's it's weird because you can watch them invent this 0:28:05.680 --> 0:28:07.760 and then it's like, oh, yeah, this guy was funded 0:28:07.800 --> 0:28:12.119 by like a weird cult guy who was trying to 0:28:12.160 --> 0:28:14.600 take over the world, who was being backed by the 0:28:14.680 --> 0:28:18.360 Korean CIA, and it's like, I don't know, it gets 0:28:18.359 --> 0:28:21.120 into this, Yeah, it all sort of comes back into 0:28:21.200 --> 0:28:25.160 this weird thing where yeah, I mean I like one 0:28:25.160 --> 0:28:26.960 of one of the the sort political transformations I've had 0:28:26.960 --> 0:28:28.920 since I started working here was like I didn't take 0:28:29.400 --> 0:28:30.680 like it's sort of a similar to what you were saying, 0:28:30.680 --> 0:28:33.080 Like I didn't take the like weaponized unreality like fake 0:28:33.119 --> 0:28:35.000 new stuff like that seriously. And then it was like 0:28:36.920 --> 0:28:39.320 you cover it every day and it's like, oh my god, 0:28:39.640 --> 0:28:43.160 like the like the weird like like watching like four Chan, 0:28:43.480 --> 0:28:45.320 like invents the I A shouly don't know if it's 0:28:45.320 --> 0:28:51.600 Portune was one of watching like just weird right wing 0:28:51.640 --> 0:28:55.360 like message boards invents like the Ukrainian bio lab thing, 0:28:55.720 --> 0:28:59.200 which like Grant Meanwall Now tweets about and like like 0:28:59.200 --> 0:29:02.520 like like the official state media of Russia and China 0:29:02.600 --> 0:29:04.960 are like talking about these bio labs and it's like 0:29:06.760 --> 0:29:10.240 it's turned into this weird like like thing where like yeah, 0:29:10.240 --> 0:29:15.960 like actual countries with like nuclear weapons are like basically 0:29:17.120 --> 0:29:19.960 using ship posters as like as like a way to 0:29:20.000 --> 0:29:25.160 do propaganda. Is it's just like really weird. I don't know, 0:29:25.280 --> 0:29:28.840 it's it's this really weird and incredibly disturbing media space 0:29:28.920 --> 0:29:32.080 to live in. Yeah, it's it's like a it's a 0:29:32.080 --> 0:29:35.680 weird synthesis of ship posters just posting online to like 0:29:35.720 --> 0:29:39.120 whatever audience and I guess like media of some sort 0:29:39.160 --> 0:29:41.760 and not maybe not like um in the in the 0:29:41.800 --> 0:29:44.640 case with the biolab, I don't know too much about that, 0:29:44.920 --> 0:29:47.200 especially cause I'm black by Gun Greenwald, so I don't 0:29:47.280 --> 0:29:51.680 see a lot of stuff. Yeah, but yeah, no, it's 0:29:51.760 --> 0:29:55.200 it's interesting how how kind of interlocked there and and 0:29:55.240 --> 0:29:57.680 to your point about the earlier about the whole Trump 0:29:57.760 --> 0:30:00.240 made magic thing. Like I I didn't take that too 0:30:00.280 --> 0:30:03.520 seriously at the time, Like inten I was like, oh, 0:30:03.560 --> 0:30:07.880 all these silly right wingers making these means like this 0:30:07.920 --> 0:30:09.960 isn't gonna do anything. Like I I don't, I truly 0:30:09.960 --> 0:30:12.440 don't know if it really had an effect, but I 0:30:12.440 --> 0:30:15.120 mean it's we can't really ignore the power of that. 0:30:15.280 --> 0:30:19.320 Just simply manifesting something, even if it's artificial, can actually 0:30:19.320 --> 0:30:22.840 have a hole on certain people. Um as you were 0:30:22.840 --> 0:30:26.760 saying with the mailing letters. I mean, if you just 0:30:27.000 --> 0:30:29.800 say enough, if you say something enough to the right 0:30:29.840 --> 0:30:32.800 type of person, they'll just believe it. I mean, it's 0:30:32.880 --> 0:30:35.000 it's not hard to lie to people as horrible as 0:30:35.040 --> 0:30:36.920 those to say. It's really not that hard to lie 0:30:37.000 --> 0:30:39.920 to people. Yeah, Like, I mean that's the whole sort 0:30:39.960 --> 0:30:43.120 of like everyone yelling groomer like constantly about trans people. 0:30:43.120 --> 0:30:45.640 It's like, yeah, they just lied over and over again. 0:30:45.720 --> 0:30:47.440 And like half the people who were like saying this 0:30:47.480 --> 0:30:51.680 stuff are actually pedophiles And it doesn't matter because you know, 0:30:51.760 --> 0:30:54.080 if you just like do this ship over and over again, 0:30:54.240 --> 0:30:57.280 you get these you get just get these like hate bobs, 0:30:57.320 --> 0:31:00.600 and it's yeah, no, the right wing right wing or 0:31:00.640 --> 0:31:05.960 specifically are phenomenal creating hate mobs. Yeah, it's kind of 0:31:05.960 --> 0:31:08.960 incredible to witness. It's it's really scary, but it's it's 0:31:08.960 --> 0:31:11.360 an incredible thing to see. There's not really an equivalent, 0:31:11.400 --> 0:31:13.320 i would say, on the left in the way that 0:31:14.280 --> 0:31:18.120 um even maybe in liberals there's an equivalent, but like 0:31:18.160 --> 0:31:19.640 on the on the left, there's not really like an 0:31:19.640 --> 0:31:26.800 equivalent to like some like a mob in that way. Yeah, 0:31:26.840 --> 0:31:29.480 I mean I think that's you know, like, Okay, there's 0:31:29.480 --> 0:31:32.000 always an extent to which like these stuff, the stuff 0:31:32.040 --> 0:31:35.400 has like material constraints, Like you know, I thought to 0:31:35.400 --> 0:31:38.000 talk about like constantly on this show, the fact that 0:31:38.040 --> 0:31:40.040 like this is like this is the stuff that the 0:31:40.120 --> 0:31:42.200 de cons believed and then they ran into the material 0:31:42.280 --> 0:31:44.640 constraints of the Iraq War and the entire project imploded. 0:31:45.200 --> 0:31:47.160 And like, I mean, I think one of the reasons 0:31:47.200 --> 0:31:49.880 why this is easier for the right is that like 0:31:51.000 --> 0:31:53.280 there's the there there's a there's a there's there's a 0:31:53.360 --> 0:31:56.920 there's always a political base for them that is there 0:31:56.920 --> 0:31:59.280 that they can access fairly easily, which is okay, they 0:31:59.400 --> 0:32:03.320 may they have access to like you know, that they 0:32:03.360 --> 0:32:07.520 have access to like a vast swath of petit bars wall. 0:32:07.600 --> 0:32:09.600 They have access to a bunch of white business owners. 0:32:09.600 --> 0:32:13.720 They have access to like this sort of like this 0:32:13.880 --> 0:32:15.920 like white professional class, they have access to the sort 0:32:15.920 --> 0:32:18.760 of like white gentry e class, and like those people 0:32:19.720 --> 0:32:23.440 can very easily be sort of like whipped into a 0:32:23.440 --> 0:32:25.720 frothing rage, and like part of it is because like 0:32:25.760 --> 0:32:27.640 that that's essentially that's just what they' that's what their 0:32:27.640 --> 0:32:30.440 class interest is. That's what they're sort of like like 0:32:30.480 --> 0:32:33.880 their status of the racial hierarchy like brings them to 0:32:33.920 --> 0:32:37.520 do already. And you could sort of like you know, 0:32:37.560 --> 0:32:39.280 if you just shovel a bit of coal on it, 0:32:39.320 --> 0:32:42.880 you can you can make the fire go absolutely. And 0:32:42.920 --> 0:32:45.560 I mean it's talked about a lot, I'm sure, but 0:32:45.600 --> 0:32:49.960 like the one thing that is really powerful is Fox News. Yeah. 0:32:50.240 --> 0:32:52.600 Fox News will pick up literally anything like I saw 0:32:52.800 --> 0:32:55.920 I saw post on Twitter just the other day, screenshot 0:32:56.200 --> 0:32:59.920 or just just a picture of Fox News and they 0:33:00.120 --> 0:33:05.280 cited the libs of TikTok Twitter account talking about school classrooms. 0:33:05.480 --> 0:33:07.640 It's like, what is that like not like the right 0:33:07.640 --> 0:33:10.120 wingers will just take the source of a random Twitter 0:33:10.240 --> 0:33:14.480 user that has a take takes messages from random people 0:33:14.520 --> 0:33:16.960 that message them and then that's their news like that 0:33:17.120 --> 0:33:20.240 just to to to to to be fair to Fox News, 0:33:20.280 --> 0:33:22.880 which is not a thing I will ever say again, Uh, 0:33:23.240 --> 0:33:25.600 it wouldn't. It wouldn't surprise me if that whole thing, 0:33:25.840 --> 0:33:27.720 like because so the I don't know if you saw 0:33:27.720 --> 0:33:30.120 this the Lives of TikTok person is like, is that 0:33:30.120 --> 0:33:32.440 that thing is run by an old Bush administration person? 0:33:33.200 --> 0:33:35.840 Really I did not know that. Yeah, so it wouldn't. 0:33:36.080 --> 0:33:38.360 I mean, Okay, like there there there's probably a three 0:33:38.360 --> 0:33:40.720 and four chance that they just saw someone who's like 0:33:40.720 --> 0:33:42.360 trying to own the libs on TikTok. But there's like 0:33:42.400 --> 0:33:44.720 a one in four chance that like all the old 0:33:44.760 --> 0:33:47.640 like Bush network people like know each other and that's 0:33:47.640 --> 0:33:51.120 why they're promoting it. That's that's a good point. That's 0:33:51.120 --> 0:33:53.040 a good point. I mean they have to know that. 0:33:53.760 --> 0:33:57.320 Well maybe I don't know, Like it's it's one of 0:33:57.360 --> 0:34:00.360 those things where it's like it becomes I don't know, 0:34:00.480 --> 0:34:05.200 it becomes really difficult to to know the extent to 0:34:05.320 --> 0:34:09.600 which the beliefs. Yeah, well how organized they are into 0:34:09.600 --> 0:34:12.080 the extent to which they believe what they're saying. Because 0:34:12.320 --> 0:34:14.239 part of that like that becomes like you know, if if, 0:34:14.280 --> 0:34:16.719 if you know who's behind that, it becomes easier to 0:34:16.840 --> 0:34:18.160 sort of be like, oh yeah, we're just sort of 0:34:18.160 --> 0:34:20.640 playing a game. But it could also just be like, now, 0:34:20.719 --> 0:34:23.040 this is this is content that we like, uh, we 0:34:23.040 --> 0:34:25.520 were all too lazy to go or just message the 0:34:25.560 --> 0:34:29.600 person to see who they are, Like I mean they 0:34:29.680 --> 0:34:33.400 had the specifically in this case, the lives of TikTok Lady. 0:34:33.440 --> 0:34:36.759 They had her like on TALX news ones talking oh 0:34:36.880 --> 0:34:40.319 yeah yeah, referenced her multiple times, so they have to 0:34:40.320 --> 0:34:44.640 know her. Yea, yeah, yeah, that that's that. That's another 0:34:44.640 --> 0:34:46.799 technique that they do a lot, which that they take 0:34:46.800 --> 0:34:48.600 someone who is like you know, like a like an 0:34:48.600 --> 0:34:52.640 old part, like who's literally a Republican operative, right, and 0:34:52.880 --> 0:34:55.000 just laundered them as an actress. Actually, the funny part 0:34:55.120 --> 0:34:57.799 is you see, like like the New York Times and 0:34:57.840 --> 0:34:59.680 Ship like all the main street outlets do the same 0:34:59.719 --> 0:35:02.880 thing to you where it's like, yeah, well, well, like 0:35:03.600 --> 0:35:06.000 any time you see an article that is like I 0:35:06.080 --> 0:35:07.840 was a Democratic voter, but I'm going to vote for 0:35:07.880 --> 0:35:11.040 the Republicans, nine times out of ten, that person is 0:35:11.040 --> 0:35:13.160 a Republican operative. And if you google their name and 0:35:13.200 --> 0:35:15.919 look hard enough, you can just find it. And it's 0:35:16.040 --> 0:35:22.279 like and that's the only thing. Yeah, That's another thing, 0:35:22.320 --> 0:35:24.560 was like I don't know whether they whether they're just 0:35:24.719 --> 0:35:27.120 lazy and don't check, or whether they're just sort of 0:35:27.200 --> 0:35:32.520 like doing this kind of like I don't know that 0:35:32.800 --> 0:35:35.200 what what what? Whether whether they're doing this on purpose, 0:35:35.360 --> 0:35:38.160 because I mean that, you know, that's that's the thing 0:35:38.200 --> 0:35:41.479 with journalism, Like it's it's difficult to like, when someone 0:35:41.520 --> 0:35:43.680 screws something up, it's it's difficult to determine a lot 0:35:43.719 --> 0:35:46.279 of times whether it's malice or whether it's they're just 0:35:47.080 --> 0:35:52.760 the only research they did was they googled something. Yeah, 0:35:52.920 --> 0:35:55.719 I feel like in the realblem that we're talking about 0:35:55.800 --> 0:35:57.440 right now, it's like right wingers, I think a lot 0:35:57.480 --> 0:36:00.360 of it Obviously it's pretty malicious a lot of the 0:36:00.360 --> 0:36:04.120 time at least, But in terms of like the whole 0:36:04.120 --> 0:36:06.960 goblin mode situation where that that stemmed off just from 0:36:06.960 --> 0:36:10.480 like random like Guardian whatever articles, I think I think 0:36:10.480 --> 0:36:13.680 that was just more of like, oh, let's kind of 0:36:13.680 --> 0:36:16.040 trying to explain this thing that is apparently now a 0:36:16.080 --> 0:36:19.480 trend and we're manifesting it in real time. Yeah, I 0:36:19.480 --> 0:36:22.920 do think there's like a distinction between that ex I 0:36:22.920 --> 0:36:25.799 feel there's no like like with the goblin mode, there's 0:36:25.800 --> 0:36:29.279 there's no nefarious aspect of it, but that like technique 0:36:29.680 --> 0:36:32.520 can be used in a very nefarious way, and I 0:36:32.560 --> 0:36:36.920 think that manifests in the most easy to waste, easiest 0:36:37.120 --> 0:36:49.680 to see ways in right wing media. Yeah, I do 0:36:49.719 --> 0:36:53.319 want to also mention that, like, yeah, I I think 0:36:53.360 --> 0:36:55.719 I said briefly, like the people who do this the 0:36:55.760 --> 0:37:00.600 most often are cops, Like the cops, and if if 0:37:00.600 --> 0:37:02.760 you see a story about the police in the mainstap 0:37:02.760 --> 0:37:05.360 of newspaper and you see the same story in another paper, 0:37:05.440 --> 0:37:08.680 it's because they're basically printing a press release. And you know, 0:37:08.719 --> 0:37:10.960 I mean this this gets used to like launder just 0:37:11.320 --> 0:37:16.080 straight up police lies about shootings they manufactured, like the 0:37:16.280 --> 0:37:20.000 entire crime wave thing, like the whole thing about people 0:37:20.000 --> 0:37:23.359 taking boxes off of trains. It's like, yeah, you look 0:37:23.400 --> 0:37:25.440 into it and it's like, yeah, there's these like there's 0:37:25.560 --> 0:37:29.279 sort of like shadowy police networks of people who are 0:37:29.320 --> 0:37:31.759 basically running I mean, they have enormous budgets to do 0:37:31.760 --> 0:37:36.520 this too, Like they have these enormous um like departmental 0:37:37.400 --> 0:37:40.200 like public outreach budgets and those public outreach budgets are 0:37:41.200 --> 0:37:45.000 basically them running information ops on us, which is incredibly fun. 0:37:47.120 --> 0:37:49.839 You know that that is absolutely like a real phenomena. 0:37:50.280 --> 0:37:52.920 I don't know too much about it specifically in cops, 0:37:52.920 --> 0:37:54.200 but I know, I know the White House does that 0:37:54.280 --> 0:37:57.040 all the time, where it's like, oh, there's a White 0:37:57.080 --> 0:37:59.839 House leap and it's like, oh, no, they wanted people 0:37:59.880 --> 0:38:03.640 to see this. This is entirely intentional. Yeah, they try 0:38:03.640 --> 0:38:05.479 a balloon stuff a lot, and that's I don't know, 0:38:06.400 --> 0:38:11.120 and like that this is this is goblin mode, is 0:38:11.160 --> 0:38:13.640 like the fun version of looking at how all this 0:38:13.680 --> 0:38:17.480 stuff works. But this stuff happens with stuff that is 0:38:18.080 --> 0:38:23.080 extremely deadly and has real world consequences, and yeah, it's 0:38:23.080 --> 0:38:25.360 it's it's something we need to be thinking about and 0:38:25.360 --> 0:38:29.640 trying to I don't know if used for good is 0:38:29.680 --> 0:38:32.000 the right thing, but like it's something that we need 0:38:32.040 --> 0:38:37.239 to be really conscious of as we're dealing with, you know, 0:38:37.480 --> 0:38:41.160 a bunch of fascists trying to murder everyone. Absolutely, I 0:38:41.200 --> 0:38:43.680 mean that that's been the most interesting thing about this 0:38:43.880 --> 0:38:47.200 to me is watching Like I hate calling it this, 0:38:47.280 --> 0:38:48.799 but just for lack of a better word, kind of 0:38:48.840 --> 0:38:53.280 like goblin mode is like being manufactured, like manufacturing consent 0:38:53.360 --> 0:38:55.800 in real time, like from the genesis of my post, 0:38:56.080 --> 0:38:58.600 watching it in real time, seeing all these articles come 0:38:58.600 --> 0:39:00.799 out and kind of all time to each other and 0:39:00.880 --> 0:39:02.600 refer back to each other. It's been it's been kind 0:39:02.640 --> 0:39:07.360 of eye opening about this topic that I think a 0:39:07.360 --> 0:39:09.200 lot of leftists kind of know a lot about, Like 0:39:09.239 --> 0:39:13.759 in terms of like media manipulation. You're it's you're right 0:39:13.840 --> 0:39:16.560 when you said it's like the fun version of that. Yeah, 0:39:16.680 --> 0:39:18.719 and it has been the fun version of it. But 0:39:18.840 --> 0:39:22.080 deep down it's like, oh, this is kind of like 0:39:22.200 --> 0:39:24.840 how they did like they this might be dramatic, but 0:39:24.920 --> 0:39:27.320 like how they did the Iraq War in real time, 0:39:27.600 --> 0:39:31.240 Like this is on some level, it's very similar strategy, 0:39:31.320 --> 0:39:34.040 like media strategy. And I think, I mean, I think 0:39:34.080 --> 0:39:38.000 I think there's specifically goblamode. I think there's because because 0:39:38.040 --> 0:39:39.960 like the Iraq War, there's a lot of just malice 0:39:40.040 --> 0:39:42.680 there and but but in this one, it's like, yeah, 0:39:42.680 --> 0:39:45.560 like that, you know, not all of the media, like 0:39:46.000 --> 0:39:49.440 all of them, Like Okay, in order for something that's 0:39:49.440 --> 0:39:54.080 completely fake to get traction, it doesn't require everyone involved 0:39:54.080 --> 0:39:57.239 being malicious. What it requires is one person saying a thing, 0:39:57.320 --> 0:39:59.040 and then a bunch of journalists being too lazy to 0:39:59.080 --> 0:40:01.400 actually look into something and then just you know, basically 0:40:01.400 --> 0:40:03.879 reprinting the article but like rewriting a few things, which 0:40:03.880 --> 0:40:08.520 happens constantly, and yeah, and and that, like, you know, 0:40:08.920 --> 0:40:11.120 the thing I think that's scary about that is it 0:40:11.200 --> 0:40:13.879 reduces the number of actors who actually have to be 0:40:13.960 --> 0:40:17.640 involved in a thing for it to just sort of 0:40:17.680 --> 0:40:21.480 like take off like this, which yeah, like and I 0:40:21.520 --> 0:40:25.920 think like there's there's an extent to which okay, like 0:40:26.120 --> 0:40:29.719 it rocks, Like something on that scale is pretty rare 0:40:29.840 --> 0:40:34.160 because it requires, like in an enormous amount of buying 0:40:35.000 --> 0:40:39.280 from a lot of people. But there's lots of small 0:40:39.360 --> 0:40:41.920 examples of this stuff that just happens sort of constantly 0:40:42.000 --> 0:40:45.400 and that stuff like yeah, I mean, you know, as 0:40:45.440 --> 0:40:47.200 we've been talking about, like that, that that kind of 0:40:47.239 --> 0:40:49.360 thing with small numbers of actors and then people just 0:40:49.360 --> 0:40:53.200 sort of lazily reprinting articles like that stuff, right. I mean, 0:40:53.200 --> 0:40:55.080 I think the best example of this is currently, at 0:40:55.120 --> 0:40:57.560 least just in my mind because I am trans the 0:40:57.560 --> 0:41:00.520 the whole trans planic that's happening right now. I think 0:41:00.600 --> 0:41:02.799 that's a really good example of it. It's just where 0:41:02.840 --> 0:41:06.160 like some website will print this certain thing and then 0:41:06.160 --> 0:41:12.399 it becomes a hysterical panic. Yeah, there's talking about it. Yeah, 0:41:12.400 --> 0:41:14.320 Like I think that's the most recent example that was 0:41:14.360 --> 0:41:18.680 that spa where it was like some person claimed like 0:41:19.280 --> 0:41:20.799 made it made a bunch of claims where they were 0:41:20.840 --> 0:41:24.960 like they might have seen a trans person maybe, and 0:41:25.000 --> 0:41:28.719 it turned into just like literally mobs showing up at 0:41:28.760 --> 0:41:31.839 this spa, like anti transbobs, just like a bunch of 0:41:31.840 --> 0:41:35.560 fascists showing up a bunch of like like yeah, and 0:41:35.719 --> 0:41:41.560 that kind of stuff. Yeah. That that affects reality. Yeah, people, 0:41:42.160 --> 0:41:44.600 that really affects people. Yeah. And and like the the 0:41:44.760 --> 0:41:46.239 the other one, the other one that that we've talked 0:41:46.239 --> 0:41:48.960 about in the trans episodes is people to people are 0:41:49.000 --> 0:41:51.920 starting to do this kind of stuff with gender clinics, 0:41:51.960 --> 0:41:55.400 and it's you know, yeah, and it's like yeah, like 0:41:55.480 --> 0:41:57.759 that that's only a matter of time before they start 0:41:57.800 --> 0:42:02.160 killing people. Like yeah, that is that is the same. Yeah. 0:42:02.320 --> 0:42:05.520 The media can easily whip someone into frenzy to do that. 0:42:05.600 --> 0:42:08.239 I mean we've seen that in the past with I think, 0:42:08.360 --> 0:42:11.479 as you referenced before, like the whole like abortion whole, 0:42:11.600 --> 0:42:13.719 like in the nineties and the early two thousands, the 0:42:13.719 --> 0:42:17.000 whole abortion panic. Yeah, I mean we saw we saw 0:42:17.000 --> 0:42:21.839 people die over stuff like that. Yeah, the bombings, like 0:42:22.680 --> 0:42:24.000 and you know, and the other thing is that like 0:42:24.040 --> 0:42:27.840 they're winning, like they are on the verge of after 0:42:28.560 --> 0:42:31.000 this like half a century long battle, like they are 0:42:31.080 --> 0:42:34.560 on the verge of our turning ro he weighed. Yeah, yeah, 0:42:34.800 --> 0:42:38.560 like you know that. And that's I think a really 0:42:38.640 --> 0:42:43.359 grim thing for the left where it's like, like, what 0:42:43.400 --> 0:42:47.080 one of the asymmetries here is that like if a 0:42:47.160 --> 0:42:51.600 leftist like assassinated the head of Ice right like they were, 0:42:51.760 --> 0:42:54.439 like I would be in prison in like a day 0:42:54.480 --> 0:42:57.040 and a half. There'd be like fifteen people who be 0:42:57.120 --> 0:43:00.440 shot in police raids, like yeah, be you know, but 0:43:00.480 --> 0:43:02.480 like when when the right wing just like it do terrorism, 0:43:02.520 --> 0:43:06.520 like just murders abortional writers, it works. And that's a 0:43:06.600 --> 0:43:11.359 really grim asymmetry, but it's sort of the reality of 0:43:11.640 --> 0:43:16.080 the situation that brand right. And Yeah, that reminds me 0:43:16.120 --> 0:43:18.279 of the This is a while ago. This was during 0:43:18.280 --> 0:43:20.680 the Black Lives Matter protests. I don't even remember why 0:43:20.680 --> 0:43:23.560 he was on the um fed's radar, but there was 0:43:23.560 --> 0:43:25.880 the dude I think in Portland's and there was like 0:43:25.920 --> 0:43:28.360 a there was like a raid and they just shot 0:43:28.400 --> 0:43:31.120 the dude in the remember that, Yeah, yeah, I mean 0:43:31.120 --> 0:43:33.640 it happened again in Uh Yeah, they murdered him. And 0:43:33.640 --> 0:43:37.200 then like it happened again with Winston Smith in uh 0:43:37.200 --> 0:43:40.719 in Minneapolis where like the like the cops were mad 0:43:40.760 --> 0:43:42.640 at him because he was like he was one of 0:43:42.680 --> 0:43:45.279 the leaders of that's happening in Minneapolis and they just 0:43:45.280 --> 0:43:49.960 walked up and shot him. Yeah and yeah, and it's 0:43:50.080 --> 0:43:56.680 it's it is a really bleak look at you know, 0:43:56.800 --> 0:43:59.360 how this country actually works, which is not really what 0:43:59.480 --> 0:44:02.839 I expected this episode to be. I just like, we'll 0:44:02.880 --> 0:44:04.879 do a fun episode about Goblin Bode and now it's like, yeah, 0:44:04.920 --> 0:44:08.160 he was the state just assassinating people and they're gonna 0:44:08.200 --> 0:44:10.040 keep doing it. And also they're gonna like to start 0:44:10.040 --> 0:44:12.720 bombing abortion well, I mean to keep bombing abortion clinics 0:44:12.719 --> 0:44:15.600 and start bombing gender clinics, and it's like that doesn't 0:44:15.600 --> 0:44:19.279 actually happen, but but yeah, I think it was. Our 0:44:19.320 --> 0:44:21.439 point was that it was like we've seen that happen 0:44:21.480 --> 0:44:26.719 in the past. Yeah, of the reactionary media fueling the 0:44:26.960 --> 0:44:29.960 hysteria through it doesn't even matter if it's real or 0:44:29.960 --> 0:44:32.520 fake stories. That's that's the main issue, is it can 0:44:32.520 --> 0:44:37.600 be totally fake and it'll it'll just fuel hysterics against anyone, 0:44:37.719 --> 0:44:41.719 any any target. Yeah, that's just like yeah, like what 0:44:41.760 --> 0:44:44.719 the we should probably close out. But like the one 0:44:44.760 --> 0:44:46.719 that's been fun for me, and by fun, I mean 0:44:46.800 --> 0:44:51.080 dear God, has been the fucking the Hunt biolab ship, 0:44:51.600 --> 0:44:54.319 which was like literally like like literally this this was 0:44:54.400 --> 0:44:56.400 this like literally this whole thing was a sie up 0:44:56.400 --> 0:44:58.560 by Steve Bannett who was like, this is how we 0:44:58.560 --> 0:45:01.240 can have Trump win the election by by by uniting 0:45:01.280 --> 0:45:05.800 everyone in like anti Asian hate, and like it worked, 0:45:06.160 --> 0:45:08.600 Like well, I mean, okay, he lost the election, but 0:45:08.840 --> 0:45:11.440 like you know, all like eventually this is this just 0:45:11.600 --> 0:45:17.359 like completely crank, like absolutely batship. All the people who 0:45:17.360 --> 0:45:20.359 are advocating for it are like like they like they're 0:45:20.400 --> 0:45:25.080 like mushroom scientists or they're like people who like you know, 0:45:25.160 --> 0:45:27.400 like like they're they're like weird. I ever met In Truthers. 0:45:27.440 --> 0:45:30.960 Like all these people, you know, like were were legitimized 0:45:31.000 --> 0:45:33.799 by the media and like that had that had an 0:45:33.920 --> 0:45:37.480 enormous impact on the last sort of two years of 0:45:37.520 --> 0:45:40.440 anti Asian violence. Like that's like that that's the thing 0:45:40.560 --> 0:45:42.600 that to get as bad as it did. And again, 0:45:42.600 --> 0:45:45.400 it is just completely fake. There's nothing it's it's that 0:45:45.560 --> 0:45:48.120 they're just they're just you know, like a bunch of 0:45:48.160 --> 0:45:51.520 fascists made up a lie about a plague so that 0:45:51.560 --> 0:45:53.680 they could try to win an election by like murdering 0:45:53.719 --> 0:45:57.719 Asian people. And yeah, and it's it's That's interesting thing 0:45:57.840 --> 0:46:00.919 is that if you look at um, like was about like, oh, 0:46:01.200 --> 0:46:03.359 how do you feel about China? Like you go back 0:46:03.440 --> 0:46:06.239 even just four years ago, most people were like, I 0:46:06.440 --> 0:46:09.359 don't have exact numbers on my head, um, but most 0:46:09.400 --> 0:46:12.360 people it was like maybe split like oh, like China 0:46:12.440 --> 0:46:15.000 is kind of scary, or like China's okay, but like 0:46:15.080 --> 0:46:16.960 most Americans at this point, even like a lot of 0:46:17.040 --> 0:46:20.040 liberals do not like China. Like it's like even the 0:46:20.080 --> 0:46:23.120 rest like China. It's like it was just manifested through 0:46:23.160 --> 0:46:27.280 the whole maybe not all through the whole Buhanu lab 0:46:27.560 --> 0:46:30.239 but just the last few years and years of both 0:46:30.520 --> 0:46:36.080 Biden's government and Trump's government ratcheting hard against um China, 0:46:36.239 --> 0:46:40.080 and just like anti China or even anti Chinese like 0:46:40.160 --> 0:46:43.279 people sentiments. Yeah, there's there's an interesting thing there too, 0:46:43.360 --> 0:46:45.799 where it's like, okay, so for the first about so 0:46:45.840 --> 0:46:48.600 that this pivot starts when which when Trump starts a 0:46:48.640 --> 0:46:52.040 trade war, right, and there's this interesting thing where it's 0:46:52.080 --> 0:46:55.200 like for the first about two years of it, it 0:46:55.280 --> 0:46:57.200 was like the views about China were changing, but the 0:46:57.200 --> 0:47:00.680 actual level of anti Asian violence wasn't doing much. But 0:47:00.719 --> 0:47:02.440 then when COVID hit, it was like you know, it 0:47:02.640 --> 0:47:04.640 was it was it was kind of like an abstract thing, right, 0:47:04.640 --> 0:47:06.040 it was like, okay, well we don't like China, but 0:47:06.120 --> 0:47:10.640 like there was nothing that there wasn't like a super 0:47:11.320 --> 0:47:15.840 strong like the thing you could point to to directly 0:47:15.880 --> 0:47:18.080 tie it to Asian people. And then the moment the 0:47:18.120 --> 0:47:20.080 moment the pandemic started, and then the moment that like 0:47:20.080 --> 0:47:22.920 Wuhan ship started, it was like suddenly there was like 0:47:22.920 --> 0:47:25.000 a concrete thing that you could point to, and it 0:47:25.080 --> 0:47:27.680 was that was like, hey, look it's the Chinese people. 0:47:27.800 --> 0:47:30.640 The they're they're they're they're spreading the plague, they benefactured 0:47:30.680 --> 0:47:32.600 the plague. The lab is because they're dirty, and like 0:47:33.280 --> 0:47:36.880 the moment became that was when everything just like all 0:47:36.920 --> 0:47:39.239 the attack skyrocketed like that. That's that's that's when like 0:47:39.280 --> 0:47:44.560 everything just sort of like really like kicked off and 0:47:45.880 --> 0:47:48.920 that was hysterics. That was like the target and hysteria 0:47:49.080 --> 0:47:54.520 of I would say, yeah, yeah, and it's you know, 0:47:55.080 --> 0:47:57.400 the fun thing I'm bracing for is like, yeah, this 0:47:57.400 --> 0:47:59.759 looks like it's gonna be the Democrat strategy two as 0:47:59.800 --> 0:48:03.200 well Republican strategy, and it's like, oh, hey, more of 0:48:03.280 --> 0:48:10.480 us are gonna die. This is gonna be fun. So yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:48:10.480 --> 0:48:12.640 it's kind of scary. Yeah, this just started out as 0:48:12.640 --> 0:48:15.800 a fun episode. But yeah, it's how God was fun, 0:48:16.200 --> 0:48:19.719 so I guess it was still a lot of fun. Yeah. Yeah. 0:48:20.040 --> 0:48:21.680 Do you have anything else that you want to say 0:48:21.800 --> 0:48:24.520 or do you want to tell people where to find you? Um? 0:48:24.600 --> 0:48:27.000 I don't really have anything to say necessarily. All I 0:48:27.080 --> 0:48:29.680 really do on the internet, at least, like my my 0:48:29.680 --> 0:48:31.719 whole interimnet in a private presence right now is just 0:48:31.760 --> 0:48:34.879 on Twitter. Um. If you want to follow me, it's 0:48:35.000 --> 0:48:38.440 um at mell mell meu. UM. I don't know if 0:48:38.440 --> 0:48:40.840 you'll have like that linked or anything. It's kind of 0:48:40.840 --> 0:48:43.759 hard to spell with the last the whole MEU it's 0:48:43.840 --> 0:48:47.000 i'm eu w. But that's really all I have is 0:48:47.040 --> 0:48:49.480 just my Twitter. Yeah, that's all that's all I really 0:48:49.480 --> 0:48:53.080 do online. I mean, it is extremely funny, and every 0:48:53.120 --> 0:48:58.480 once in a while you create Goblin Mode as an 0:48:58.480 --> 0:49:04.319 actual thing, which is Yeah, it's fun. Yeah, I have 0:49:04.320 --> 0:49:06.400 a good time on Twitter people. People complain about that 0:49:06.440 --> 0:49:09.279 website a lot, but yeah, since I joined it, like 0:49:09.320 --> 0:49:12.080 twenty nineteen or whatever, I haven't looked back. It's it's 0:49:12.080 --> 0:49:14.719 a lot of fun. I've got a lot of cool people. Yeah, 0:49:14.840 --> 0:49:17.879 I've known of you for a while, but it's nice 0:49:17.920 --> 0:49:22.200 to actually talk to you. You too, Yeah, yeah, it was. 0:49:22.239 --> 0:49:26.480 It was a good time. Yeah, So go Goblin Mode. 0:49:27.160 --> 0:49:33.200 Don't let the fascist murder trans people. Uh yeah, this 0:49:33.200 --> 0:49:35.879 this is maybe it could happen here. You can find 0:49:35.920 --> 0:49:41.840 us on Twitter, Instagram at happen here pot Uh yeah, 0:49:42.280 --> 0:49:49.600 have fun, find cool trinkets suppressed the turfs gotta you 0:49:49.640 --> 0:49:52.200 gotta have the trinkets. You gotta find the That's what 0:49:52.239 --> 0:49:58.520 goblin modes all about, getting trinkets. That's right, all right, 0:49:58.800 --> 0:50:05.280 the bio folks. It could happen here. As a production 0:50:05.280 --> 0:50:08.319 of cool Zone Media. Or more podcasts from cool Zone Media, 0:50:08.440 --> 0:50:10.879 visit our website cool zone media dot com, or check 0:50:10.960 --> 0:50:13.239 us out on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts 0:50:13.320 --> 0:50:16.280 or Wherever you listen to podcasts, you can find sources 0:50:16.360 --> 0:50:18.919 for it could happen here. Updated monthly at cool Zone 0:50:18.920 --> 0:50:21.720 Media dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.