WEBVTT - Marie Kondo in Katie's Closet 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:09.680 Hi, everyone. Well it's just Katie today, no Brian. But 0:00:10.240 --> 0:00:14.040 the show must go on. As ethel Merman sings, there's 0:00:14.160 --> 0:00:17.960 no business like show business. Okay, you got the idea. 0:00:18.160 --> 0:00:21.959 So I'm coming to you today from my apartment, my closet, 0:00:22.160 --> 0:00:24.439 to be exact, it's fun once in a while for 0:00:24.520 --> 0:00:26.360 us to get out of the studio and be in 0:00:26.400 --> 0:00:28.760 a more relaxed setting. In fact, I'm so relaxed. I'm 0:00:28.760 --> 0:00:32.280 wearing my pajamas right now and my bedroom slippers. But 0:00:32.440 --> 0:00:35.360 they're not very sexy. They're Brooks Brothers pajamas. I look 0:00:35.440 --> 0:00:38.880 more like Lucy Ricardo than Maril and Monroe, So think 0:00:38.880 --> 0:00:42.080 about that for a minute. Anyway, I just said goodbye 0:00:42.080 --> 0:00:45.160 to our guest today, Well, my guests, since Brian's not here. 0:00:45.200 --> 0:00:49.280 Marie Condo. You probably have heard of Marie Condo. She's 0:00:49.320 --> 0:00:52.480 the queen of tidying and the creator of something called 0:00:52.520 --> 0:00:55.720 the con Marie Method. Have you ever heard someone say 0:00:55.800 --> 0:01:00.360 I just condoed my house. Well, they're talking about Marie Condo. 0:01:00.640 --> 0:01:04.479 She in fact, has made condoing a verb. Her books, 0:01:04.480 --> 0:01:08.240 including the runaway bestseller The Life Changing Magic of Tidying Up, 0:01:08.640 --> 0:01:12.919 have sold over eight million copies and She talks about 0:01:13.319 --> 0:01:16.080 really learning how to weed things out of your life, 0:01:16.120 --> 0:01:20.080 to basically throw things away. I have a real problem 0:01:20.160 --> 0:01:21.959 with this people, I don't know if you're like me. 0:01:22.120 --> 0:01:25.720 I'm a borderline hoarder. So this was very instructive for me. 0:01:26.040 --> 0:01:28.920 So I talked to her about why this is so emotional, 0:01:29.280 --> 0:01:33.080 how she started her tiding empire. Have her two young 0:01:33.200 --> 0:01:36.280 daughters two and one changed her it all is she 0:01:36.440 --> 0:01:39.000 less of a neat nick because she now has kids. 0:01:39.280 --> 0:01:41.920 I even let her loose in my closet. She's a 0:01:42.040 --> 0:01:45.160 very brave woman. And one last note, we had a 0:01:45.200 --> 0:01:49.960 wonderful Japanese interpreter Ico. She joined us for this episode, 0:01:50.080 --> 0:01:51.680 So things are going to sound a bit different, a 0:01:51.680 --> 0:01:54.880 little more global than usual. Here's how what will work. 0:01:55.120 --> 0:01:59.280 I'll ask a question, you'll hear Marie Condo answer in Japanese, 0:01:59.320 --> 0:02:02.919 and then Ico will come in with the English translation. 0:02:03.280 --> 0:02:06.600 It's going to be a lot of fun. Buckle up, everybody, 0:02:06.680 --> 0:02:19.640 let's do this thing. First of all, Ken, that's about 0:02:19.639 --> 0:02:23.400 the extent of my Japanese and erigato, which means thank you, 0:02:23.480 --> 0:02:27.480 Knishua means hello. Yes, all right, That's that's pretty much 0:02:27.520 --> 0:02:31.560 it for my Japanese vocabulary. But welcome to my home, 0:02:32.080 --> 0:02:34.240 and it's so nice to meet you. But the way 0:02:34.240 --> 0:02:40.600 to see this, they're very happy to be here. Thank you. Um. 0:02:40.680 --> 0:02:43.359 You have had such a fascinating life. You're thirty two 0:02:43.480 --> 0:02:47.320 years old, but your journey really began when you were 0:02:47.400 --> 0:02:53.040 just five. I understand you became obsessed with tidiness when 0:02:53.080 --> 0:02:56.800 you were that age. Do you remember that and do 0:02:56.840 --> 0:03:04.040 you remember what motivated it? Tost So, my mother used 0:03:04.080 --> 0:03:07.000 to read a lifestyle magazine UM that came to us 0:03:07.040 --> 0:03:09.840 all the time. We had a subscription, and I would 0:03:09.880 --> 0:03:12.120 read it every time the new one would come, and 0:03:12.120 --> 0:03:14.560 then I would try some of the housework tips and 0:03:14.639 --> 0:03:17.560 try some of the storage UM things that I really 0:03:17.600 --> 0:03:21.119 like to see how they worked. And your parents were 0:03:21.160 --> 0:03:27.040 they neat and tidy or were they messy? So my 0:03:27.120 --> 0:03:29.760 parents were quite average in that sense. They had a 0:03:29.760 --> 0:03:32.600 lot of things, and it looked at one glance as 0:03:32.600 --> 0:03:34.960 if everything was very clean and tidy, but the moment 0:03:34.960 --> 0:03:37.840 you opened something, the inside was a little bit more cletterer. 0:03:37.920 --> 0:03:43.240 I feel that. So the sums um, what did they 0:03:43.320 --> 0:03:48.440 make of your interest or propensity towards tidiness. Did they 0:03:48.480 --> 0:03:52.840 applauded or did they ever say, Marie, please don't clean 0:03:52.960 --> 0:03:56.080 up your room? So this name and what do she got? 0:03:59.120 --> 0:04:02.200 So one time, I very into tidying up and cleaning, 0:04:02.200 --> 0:04:04.840 and it's throwing things away. Um. This was around the 0:04:04.880 --> 0:04:08.280 time I was in middle school, and so some suits 0:04:08.320 --> 0:04:11.280 that my father really cherished or bags that my mother loved, 0:04:11.480 --> 0:04:14.400 actually threw away. And then they got very angry at 0:04:14.440 --> 0:04:18.120 me and told me not to tidy. I don't blame them. 0:04:18.400 --> 0:04:24.000 I would have been upset too. Now that I reflect 0:04:24.040 --> 0:04:27.039 on it, I really understand that I did something very mean. Um, 0:04:27.040 --> 0:04:29.760 But in my perspective at the time, I felt like, oh, 0:04:29.839 --> 0:04:33.000 they're not using these things. There's dust covered, They're never 0:04:33.000 --> 0:04:34.839 going to use it. And I was really working off 0:04:34.920 --> 0:04:39.760 my own perspective. You also started reading books on feng 0:04:39.839 --> 0:04:43.640 shui and on neatness when you were eighteen years old. 0:04:44.040 --> 0:04:46.400 You'd go to the library and study it. What kinds 0:04:46.440 --> 0:04:51.120 of books would you read? So it was around the 0:04:51.160 --> 0:04:54.280 time the fengue was becoming popular in Japan. So I 0:04:54.320 --> 0:04:57.400 was able to find these things called mooks, which in 0:04:57.480 --> 0:05:00.760 Japanese is the in between of magazin means and books, 0:05:01.120 --> 0:05:03.440 and so I was able to find these simple ones 0:05:03.480 --> 0:05:07.480 that I could actually read. When you turned nineteen, people 0:05:07.520 --> 0:05:13.000 started asking you to help them declutter, to help them, 0:05:13.040 --> 0:05:16.359 I guess, organized their lives. The waiting list got to 0:05:16.440 --> 0:05:20.360 be what six months long? What would you do for people? 0:05:20.440 --> 0:05:26.560 And how did that happen? Do you look? So when 0:05:26.600 --> 0:05:28.680 I was in nineteen, I went to university and my 0:05:28.760 --> 0:05:31.760 hobby then was to clean my friends places. And then 0:05:31.800 --> 0:05:42.320 sounds fun, so fun for you, that's right, And so 0:05:42.480 --> 0:05:45.360 rumors then spread through that between my friends and they're 0:05:45.400 --> 0:05:48.680 saying that when Comari comes over, your house becomes really 0:05:48.680 --> 0:05:52.200 clean and organized. And then since then strangers started to 0:05:52.240 --> 0:05:54.920 email me through that, and then eventually it became my work. 0:05:55.360 --> 0:06:00.600 That's so funny. How much did you charge? What you call? Um? So? 0:06:00.760 --> 0:06:02.799 At first I was a student, so I didn't really 0:06:02.839 --> 0:06:05.320 know how to price things at the time. UM, So 0:06:05.360 --> 0:06:07.560 when I was doing my friends places, they would just 0:06:07.560 --> 0:06:11.039 buy me lunch. But then eventually, UM, when when people 0:06:11.200 --> 0:06:14.480 asked for the charge, I wouldn't say for five hours, uh, 0:06:15.480 --> 0:06:18.880 five thousand yen, which is about fifty dollars. Wow, that's 0:06:18.920 --> 0:06:23.240 a pretty good deal in the day. So you decided 0:06:23.279 --> 0:06:26.840 to write a book because there was so much interest 0:06:27.040 --> 0:06:29.960 in this before I ask you about your book, Marie. 0:06:30.440 --> 0:06:34.280 Were you surprised that so many people wanted your services, 0:06:34.920 --> 0:06:42.640 especially college students? Um? So when I decided to write 0:06:42.640 --> 0:06:46.160 a book was quite after I had already graduated from university. 0:06:46.360 --> 0:06:49.680 How old were you when you wrote your proposal? No, 0:06:49.839 --> 0:06:54.080 so I could the pupils out of thank you five 0:06:54.160 --> 0:06:57.800 years old? So seven years ago. Yeah. And also the 0:06:58.040 --> 0:07:00.640 time when my wait list became about six months was 0:07:00.680 --> 0:07:03.920 maybe ten years after I started doing my job. Um. 0:07:04.320 --> 0:07:07.760 But all my friends and family who had experienced my 0:07:08.040 --> 0:07:12.400 journey has have all been very surprised about all of this. Um. 0:07:12.520 --> 0:07:16.160 Your book, The Life Changing Magic of Tidying Up is 0:07:16.360 --> 0:07:23.000 an international bestseller. How many copies have been sold? Marie? So, 0:07:23.080 --> 0:07:26.560 it's been sold in forty one countries. Um, and we've 0:07:26.600 --> 0:07:31.800 sold all together eight million, four hundred thousand. How do 0:07:31.840 --> 0:07:42.480 you say wow in Japanese? Initial wow? Wow, that's amazing. Um. 0:07:42.520 --> 0:07:45.480 I thought this was so interesting, Marie. It really took 0:07:45.520 --> 0:07:51.760 off after the tsunami in Japan and what happened that 0:07:51.920 --> 0:08:00.840 changed people's mindsets as a result of the tsunami. So, 0:08:00.920 --> 0:08:04.000 in Japan, right after this all happened, the tsunami, and 0:08:04.080 --> 0:08:07.360 everything was it was on TV every single day, and 0:08:07.440 --> 0:08:10.520 that actually led to a lot of people really reconsidering 0:08:10.560 --> 0:08:13.320 and thinking about what is important to them. Um, what 0:08:13.520 --> 0:08:15.760 is it that it's in my life that's important? And 0:08:15.800 --> 0:08:18.160 the first things that they may have thought about are 0:08:18.200 --> 0:08:20.560 the things that surround them or the things that they 0:08:20.560 --> 0:08:23.280 had owned. And I think that was something that led 0:08:23.320 --> 0:08:27.680 to UM, people reading my book. I imagine though people 0:08:28.080 --> 0:08:34.840 reconsidered material possessions and possibly thought some of them, we're 0:08:34.920 --> 0:08:39.240 not as important as they might have believed. So this 0:08:39.920 --> 0:08:43.920 designing it but UM, I think it's very true. UM, 0:08:43.960 --> 0:08:46.320 A lot of people really just spent their time looking 0:08:46.360 --> 0:08:49.079 over their things one at a time, and when they 0:08:49.120 --> 0:08:52.079 really took their times to think about each and everything, 0:08:52.440 --> 0:08:55.079 I think they started to realize that before it may 0:08:55.120 --> 0:08:57.280 have given them joy, but now that they look at 0:08:57.280 --> 0:08:59.920 it now, it doesn't give them as much joy anymore. 0:09:01.080 --> 0:09:05.960 Let's talk about the Connoree method if we could. UM. 0:09:06.000 --> 0:09:08.680 I've heard of it and I'm excited to learn more 0:09:08.720 --> 0:09:12.880 about it. But it's really, I guess, first and foremost 0:09:13.000 --> 0:09:20.880 about decluttering and simplifying your life. Is that right? Um? 0:09:20.920 --> 0:09:24.240 If anything, my method is really about really thinking about 0:09:24.280 --> 0:09:27.040 what makes you happy. UM. And then to be able 0:09:27.080 --> 0:09:30.240 to really treadure the things that are actually important to you. 0:09:30.960 --> 0:09:43.680 So that entails everything, uh, books, clothing, kitchen udencils, bathroom products, etcetera. Yes, 0:09:43.840 --> 0:09:46.560 so through this method, we look at every single thing 0:09:46.600 --> 0:09:53.000 that you own, and everything is supposed to bring you joy. Yes, 0:09:53.040 --> 0:09:56.440 So it's really about figuring out how each and everything 0:09:56.640 --> 0:09:59.320 really does give joy or not. Is that too limiting 0:09:59.440 --> 0:10:02.720 my produce? Sergianna asked, if you know she has a 0:10:02.800 --> 0:10:06.840 kitchen sponge, it doesn't necessarily bring her joy, but it's 0:10:06.880 --> 0:10:10.680 really important to have around the house. So how do 0:10:10.720 --> 0:10:14.520 you differentiate things that bring you joy and things that 0:10:14.559 --> 0:10:19.240 are just simply necessary to live? Looking me, Um, So 0:10:19.280 --> 0:10:21.640 that's actually a kind of question that I often get. 0:10:22.120 --> 0:10:24.320 So one thing about this method is that I hope 0:10:24.320 --> 0:10:27.880 that people discover and find, uh, even in the small 0:10:27.920 --> 0:10:30.520 things that are very helpful to you, that actually the 0:10:30.559 --> 0:10:33.200 fact that you have this thing that's helpful to you 0:10:33.480 --> 0:10:36.520 is actually giving you some joy, and that you feel 0:10:36.559 --> 0:10:39.520 gratitude towards even the smallest things. Tell her I'm never 0:10:39.520 --> 0:10:43.040 going to look at my kitchen sponge the same way. Well, 0:10:45.400 --> 0:10:53.120 not any me tonight. It's true. So people really start 0:10:53.160 --> 0:10:57.000 to really love even the small things like sponges. Really, alright, Gianna, 0:10:57.559 --> 0:11:00.960 let the record show you are loving your lunge. Um, 0:11:00.960 --> 0:11:05.200 what if what if too many things bring joy to someone. 0:11:05.720 --> 0:11:08.920 We're sitting in my closet. By the way, it's a 0:11:08.920 --> 0:11:12.040 it's a serious walking closet. I mean, if I could 0:11:12.080 --> 0:11:15.400 describe it for our listeners, it's really a bedroom that 0:11:15.480 --> 0:11:18.840 was converted into a closet. I'm embarrassed to say, but 0:11:19.040 --> 0:11:22.280 I have a lot of clothes, and for my job, 0:11:22.800 --> 0:11:26.360 not as much now as before. It was necessary for 0:11:26.400 --> 0:11:29.040 me to have a lot of clothes. And now look 0:11:29.040 --> 0:11:31.840 at it, it's ridiculous. I have so many clothes. I 0:11:31.880 --> 0:11:36.000 can't really find anything. Having said that, take me through 0:11:36.720 --> 0:11:40.080 how I would declutter this closet. And I'm sorry that 0:11:40.160 --> 0:11:45.480 was such a long question. I well cause I also 0:11:45.559 --> 0:11:48.719 regarding clothes, first of all, it's you have to look 0:11:48.760 --> 0:11:51.280 at all your clothes, um, So take them all out, 0:11:51.320 --> 0:11:54.600 whether they're clothes they're affolded, or whether they're clothes are hanging, 0:11:54.800 --> 0:11:57.720 bring them all into one place, and then bring them 0:11:57.760 --> 0:12:01.320 over to somewhere else, so that you actually have to 0:12:01.400 --> 0:12:04.680 take each piece of clothing each time and hold them, 0:12:04.720 --> 0:12:06.520 and you hold it and you put it close to 0:12:06.559 --> 0:12:12.079 your heart on the things give so UM. You definitely 0:12:12.080 --> 0:12:15.520 hold your clothes UM and then feel whether you feel 0:12:15.520 --> 0:12:18.559 these positive feelings or not UM, and then really feel 0:12:18.600 --> 0:12:22.200 these physical sensations of whether you feel positive by holding 0:12:22.240 --> 0:12:24.600 them UM. And that is something very fundamental in my 0:12:24.640 --> 0:12:27.640 Calmari method. I'm sure a lot of our listeners like 0:12:27.800 --> 0:12:32.560 me think, gosh, maybe this doesn't bring me joy now, 0:12:33.200 --> 0:12:36.640 but maybe it'll bring me joy later when I lose 0:12:36.640 --> 0:12:40.679 a few pounds or it comes back into style. So 0:12:41.080 --> 0:12:44.400 just in case I want to hang on to this UM, 0:12:44.440 --> 0:12:46.920 maybe I spent a fair amount of money on it, 0:12:47.120 --> 0:12:50.600 or maybe it's something that I think I might wear 0:12:50.600 --> 0:12:54.720 in the future. So I think people hold onto things 0:12:55.080 --> 0:12:58.160 with those thoughts in mind. How do you how do 0:12:58.200 --> 0:13:00.079 you get them to get out of that mind that 0:13:01.160 --> 0:13:08.600 it almost There are actually two ways must So the 0:13:08.600 --> 0:13:10.760 first method that I suggest is that when you go 0:13:10.840 --> 0:13:13.320 through all your clothing, just start with the things that 0:13:13.360 --> 0:13:16.120 are very apparent to you, so ones that you know 0:13:16.240 --> 0:13:18.840 immediately don't spark joy in you, or the things that 0:13:18.960 --> 0:13:22.720 maybe UM do you you know immediately that you want 0:13:22.760 --> 0:13:25.120 to keep UM. And by starting to let go of 0:13:25.200 --> 0:13:27.760 the things that are apparent to you that you don't 0:13:27.800 --> 0:13:30.319 want to keep. Then you start to actually be able 0:13:30.360 --> 0:13:34.600 to build the ability to recognize joy easier UM, and 0:13:34.640 --> 0:13:38.040 then you'll be able to work through your grayer zones 0:13:38.080 --> 0:13:45.240 as well the more still small oil UM. So regarding clothes, 0:13:45.800 --> 0:13:48.200 when when you're thinking one day that I'm going to 0:13:48.240 --> 0:13:51.720 wear this UM and it's it's really also important to 0:13:51.760 --> 0:13:55.360 think about why I'm thinking these things. How did I 0:13:55.400 --> 0:13:58.200 come to the idea of saying that I'm going to 0:13:58.240 --> 0:14:01.760 wear this one day, and whether that's something that's more heavy, 0:14:01.840 --> 0:14:05.240 for example, to be thinking, oh, I spent all this money, 0:14:05.320 --> 0:14:07.559 therefore I'm going to wear it one day, and maybe 0:14:07.559 --> 0:14:10.320 that's a more heavy sort of sensation as opposed to 0:14:10.360 --> 0:14:13.040 maybe it gives you joy to say, oh, um, you 0:14:13.080 --> 0:14:15.839 know this is going to encourage me to lose some weight, 0:14:16.160 --> 0:14:19.080 and if that's a positive feeling UM. And so to 0:14:19.280 --> 0:14:23.160 really understand these reasons and feel these sensations a positive 0:14:23.280 --> 0:14:26.480 or negative or heavy UM, and to really kind of 0:14:26.560 --> 0:14:29.800 taste almost the physical sensations that you feel when you 0:14:29.840 --> 0:14:33.600 come to these ideas UM can be very helpful. One 0:14:33.640 --> 0:14:36.880 of the sections in the book is seasonal Clothes Eliminate 0:14:36.960 --> 0:14:40.840 the need to store off season clothes, and you advocate 0:14:41.400 --> 0:14:48.280 pitching rather than storing. UM. So the reasoning behind is 0:14:48.280 --> 0:14:50.760 is that UM, in working with my clients, I did 0:14:50.800 --> 0:14:55.160 come across many cases where people did have UM, you know, 0:14:55.160 --> 0:14:57.960 a summer clothes put away or winter close put away 0:14:58.000 --> 0:15:00.680 depending on the season. UM. But by what I also 0:15:00.720 --> 0:15:03.080 found that is that a lot of people miss the 0:15:03.080 --> 0:15:08.440 opportunity to actually flip their clothing over with the seasons. 0:15:08.480 --> 0:15:11.640 Because you're storing so much, they have no idea how 0:15:11.720 --> 0:15:15.200 much they actually own, UM, and so UM they end 0:15:15.280 --> 0:15:18.320 up buying something that they actually already have. I've done that, 0:15:19.080 --> 0:15:22.200 so you have like UM, and so that leads to 0:15:22.840 --> 0:15:26.080 not understanding what they in fact own and then because 0:15:26.080 --> 0:15:29.960 of that, UM, not really seeing what's actually necessary for them. 0:15:30.120 --> 0:15:32.760 So you don't make the switch. So you try to 0:15:32.840 --> 0:15:37.320 have winter, spring, summer, and fall in your closet so 0:15:37.480 --> 0:15:43.280 at once. UM. Yes, at least for myself and many 0:15:43.320 --> 0:15:46.200 of my clients. UM, by the end of all the tidying, 0:15:46.400 --> 0:15:49.040 we're able to see what we have for all seasons. 0:15:49.560 --> 0:15:52.920 One exception possibly are things such as coats which are 0:15:53.000 --> 0:15:55.120 which do take up a lot of a lot of space, 0:15:55.280 --> 0:15:58.160 or boots they only wear in the winter, or on 0:15:58.200 --> 0:16:00.400 the flip side, swimwear that you own me where in 0:16:00.400 --> 0:16:03.840 the summer. These small things, they might actually do some 0:16:03.960 --> 0:16:08.280 seasonal switching around, especially here in New York, because people 0:16:08.320 --> 0:16:12.880 have very small closets. Um, this is unusual. Listeners, Please 0:16:12.880 --> 0:16:15.200 don't hate me because I have a big closet at 0:16:15.240 --> 0:16:18.600 by the way, but many people have very small spaces 0:16:18.760 --> 0:16:22.080 to keep their things. You can do, ladies, they thought, 0:16:22.080 --> 0:16:26.119 I'm not a um. So, it's definitely just a suggestion 0:16:26.280 --> 0:16:29.040 to really try and have everything in one place, all 0:16:29.080 --> 0:16:30.720 the clothes that you have in one place, and be 0:16:30.800 --> 0:16:33.280 able to know. What's really important is that you are 0:16:33.440 --> 0:16:36.240 able to know what you actually have at all times. 0:16:37.640 --> 0:16:39.320 We're going to take a quick break and we'll be 0:16:39.440 --> 0:16:58.040 right back with the delightful Charmie Marie Condo and now 0:16:58.240 --> 0:17:03.480 back to Marie Condo. There are a lot of books 0:17:03.480 --> 0:17:09.320 out there, self help books about organizing your life. Why 0:17:09.320 --> 0:17:12.479 do you think yours has resonated so much and sold 0:17:12.640 --> 0:17:19.840 so many copies? What's different about your technique so that 0:17:20.000 --> 0:17:22.120 won't let you? Um? So, I think it comes from 0:17:22.119 --> 0:17:25.280 the fact that my book is not just about cleaning 0:17:25.320 --> 0:17:28.639 your room, but rather it's about through the process of 0:17:28.680 --> 0:17:32.639 tidying and organizing to face yourself and to understand yourself better. 0:17:33.119 --> 0:17:36.159 What order do you need to declutter your life? You 0:17:36.200 --> 0:17:39.560 start with clothes and then you move on to other items. 0:17:39.600 --> 0:17:48.480 What is the order that you recommend so the in 0:17:48.560 --> 0:17:52.479 my method, I recommend that people start with clothes, then books, 0:17:52.640 --> 0:17:57.280 than documents, and then miscellaneous things, and then things that 0:17:57.359 --> 0:18:02.280 give you memories, sentim and some things. Yeah, I am extremely, 0:18:02.480 --> 0:18:08.000 extremely extremely sentimental, are you? It's all this new? What 0:18:08.080 --> 0:18:11.960 does she so? I might be more of a more 0:18:12.520 --> 0:18:16.440 kind of brisk sort of personality rather than super sentimental 0:18:17.040 --> 0:18:20.240 because of the work I do. You're lucky. You're lucky 0:18:20.320 --> 0:18:22.200 because I think a lot of people have a hard 0:18:22.240 --> 0:18:28.320 time parting with things that they feel represents their family 0:18:28.640 --> 0:18:33.320 or memories are very special. My husband isn't sentimental at all, 0:18:34.080 --> 0:18:36.560 but I'm super sentimental, so I have a hard time 0:18:36.600 --> 0:18:39.560 parting with things. So I'm glad it's the fourth thing 0:18:39.600 --> 0:18:44.120 on your list. I wanted to ask you the parallel 0:18:44.840 --> 0:18:49.959 between a clean, tidy environment and your peace of mind 0:18:50.720 --> 0:18:53.280 and what it does for you and your daily life, 0:18:53.760 --> 0:18:56.399 and how you've seen it change your clients and people 0:18:56.480 --> 0:19:04.720 you know, and yourself really. So as regarding the effects 0:19:04.760 --> 0:19:07.720 of a clean environment, I think it does have both 0:19:07.720 --> 0:19:12.040 a physical and psychological effect, and it probably reduces stress. 0:19:12.200 --> 0:19:17.480 Not feeling frantic looking for things and misplacing things and 0:19:17.520 --> 0:19:21.320 trying to find an item of clothing probably makes you 0:19:21.400 --> 0:19:28.600 less anxious. Yes, I agree. I think um, by being 0:19:28.640 --> 0:19:31.480 able to move along smoother throughout your day really does 0:19:31.720 --> 0:19:33.520 give you room to not have to worry about the 0:19:33.560 --> 0:19:36.960 small things. Um, and definitely lessons the stress in your life. 0:19:37.080 --> 0:19:41.560 You have many clients now, Um, how much do you charge? 0:19:42.080 --> 0:19:46.360 And what have you found that your clients have in common? 0:19:46.960 --> 0:19:49.639 I know everyone's different, but is there a common threat 0:19:49.680 --> 0:19:57.720 among them? Um? So actually I have sort of stopped 0:19:57.840 --> 0:20:01.680 right now to give private lessons or tidy. I'm more 0:20:01.720 --> 0:20:05.320 focused on teaching my method and so for example, doing 0:20:05.440 --> 0:20:08.959 these consulting to teach people how to actually do so 0:20:09.000 --> 0:20:12.400 you have disciples now who go out and teach your 0:20:12.440 --> 0:20:14.959 method to other people? Or do they have to be 0:20:15.000 --> 0:20:20.720 certified or take a class? Yes, that's true. I actually, um, 0:20:20.720 --> 0:20:23.960 we do give certifications and right now it's actually going on. 0:20:24.480 --> 0:20:27.679 But when you did have clients, when you saw people, 0:20:27.920 --> 0:20:32.560 was there a common threat among those clients, so all 0:20:32.640 --> 0:20:37.840 this name. So, one thing that I found is that 0:20:38.200 --> 0:20:41.199 not only did my clients really want to clean, but 0:20:41.240 --> 0:20:44.359 they often have some other related problems in their lives 0:20:44.400 --> 0:20:47.160 that they want to deal with and so and cleaning 0:20:47.280 --> 0:20:50.720 is just a sort of way to grapple at these problems. 0:20:50.840 --> 0:20:54.600 So it's a metaphor for something deeper that's troubling them. 0:20:54.640 --> 0:20:59.800 They need some kind of freeing. I think that's exactly right. 0:21:00.040 --> 0:21:03.719 Have you ever had hoarders or people who simply cannot 0:21:03.840 --> 0:21:10.000 part with their possessions and you've suggested psychiatric help. So 0:21:10.200 --> 0:21:16.480 this is designing. Um. I don't necessarily, um suggest psychological 0:21:16.520 --> 0:21:20.280 help or do psychological things necessarily, but through the process 0:21:20.320 --> 0:21:23.320 of tidying, many of my clients do notice in themselves 0:21:23.320 --> 0:21:26.680 certain psychological things. UM. For example, I had a client 0:21:26.720 --> 0:21:30.320 who said, oh, I have these tendencies because I have 0:21:30.440 --> 0:21:34.320 certain resentments towards my mother. Or I had clients who 0:21:34.480 --> 0:21:37.320 were saying that, oh, I'm keeping all these jobs. That's 0:21:37.400 --> 0:21:40.119 and that's related to this fear that I have towards 0:21:40.240 --> 0:21:44.680 my job. UM. So they do books books because I'm 0:21:44.760 --> 0:21:49.399 feeling certain fear or uncertainty about my jobs. UM. And 0:21:49.440 --> 0:21:53.159 so they often do come to certain psychological conclusions through that. 0:21:53.320 --> 0:21:56.520 So in Away Marie's the therapists, do you meet the 0:21:58.760 --> 0:22:05.680 attical talk those get on this give it's true? Um, 0:22:05.720 --> 0:22:08.040 I do you know? What I'm actually doing is the 0:22:08.080 --> 0:22:11.880 tidying and cleaning, But um, when we look at the results, 0:22:11.880 --> 0:22:15.000 I'm often doing something more psychological as well. What is 0:22:15.040 --> 0:22:19.439 the strangest thing you've seen a client really attached to 0:22:19.800 --> 0:22:23.680 that they couldn't let go, or any other strange experience 0:22:23.760 --> 0:22:30.840 you've had working with people. So one thing that comes 0:22:30.880 --> 0:22:33.200 to mind is one of my clients was a collector 0:22:33.240 --> 0:22:36.120 of masks from all over the world. Um, they had 0:22:36.160 --> 0:22:39.280 ballroom masks, all these different kinds of masks, and when 0:22:39.359 --> 0:22:41.240 you go into the room, it was quite a strange 0:22:41.320 --> 0:22:45.240 environment because there were faces everywhere. So did they get 0:22:45.359 --> 0:22:50.919 rid of them or keep them? Zimbo on the the 0:22:50.920 --> 0:22:54.720 ones that just brought them joy? I still still think, 0:22:55.160 --> 0:22:58.200 Um so yes. So she did go through every single 0:22:58.440 --> 0:23:02.400 mask to figure out what they actually sparked joy in her. Um, 0:23:02.480 --> 0:23:04.720 it ended up being quite a lot that remained that 0:23:05.119 --> 0:23:08.479 did spark joy. But she was quite proud because she 0:23:08.520 --> 0:23:11.560 could now confidently say, all of these mass leon are 0:23:11.640 --> 0:23:14.720 things that spark Joy. Are your Japanese clients or were 0:23:14.760 --> 0:23:18.760 your Japanese clients different than your American clients. So this 0:23:21.240 --> 0:23:24.720 one thing I noticed. I think generally speaking, UM Japanese 0:23:24.720 --> 0:23:27.640 and American clients tend to have sort of the similar 0:23:27.720 --> 0:23:31.199 problems regarding tidying. But one thing I did notice is 0:23:31.240 --> 0:23:35.879 that UM people Western people often have more sentimental attachment 0:23:35.920 --> 0:23:39.000 towards their things UM, especially things that have a lot 0:23:39.000 --> 0:23:42.480 of memory, maybe things that were passed on UM or inherited. 0:23:44.040 --> 0:23:48.960 Our Japanese people in general a little less. Do they 0:23:48.960 --> 0:23:53.280 accumulate less? Are they more minimalists in their kind of 0:23:53.320 --> 0:23:58.080 design and possessions or is that just something that I 0:23:58.119 --> 0:24:03.720 think it's like because a lot of people do wonder 0:24:03.840 --> 0:24:06.200 that UM. But the thing is, I do think it's 0:24:06.240 --> 0:24:08.920 maybe sort of a myth that's sort of created UM. 0:24:08.960 --> 0:24:11.200 And actually there's really a lot of people who own 0:24:11.240 --> 0:24:13.320 a lot of things in Japan as well, so they 0:24:13.840 --> 0:24:18.280 fall victim to clutter to No, It's true. We have 0:24:18.560 --> 0:24:22.440 UM a listener voicemail that I thought we would play, 0:24:22.480 --> 0:24:26.200 and then we have some Twitter questions as well. Hi, 0:24:26.320 --> 0:24:28.800 I had a question for Marie Condo. I was wondering, 0:24:29.200 --> 0:24:32.560 what's something in her home that is totally unnecessary, but 0:24:32.680 --> 0:24:37.720 she keeps because it sparks her joy. Thanks. No antique. No, 0:24:40.119 --> 0:24:44.360 So I have this pair of antique tongues. Um. That's 0:24:44.400 --> 0:24:47.680 actually very difficult to use. Um, and I very very 0:24:47.760 --> 0:24:50.240 rarely use it, but whenever I just look at it, 0:24:50.280 --> 0:24:52.320 when I opened the drawers, it just gives me so 0:24:52.400 --> 0:24:57.639 much joy. All right, good to know. Um, you have 0:24:57.680 --> 0:25:02.760 two young daughters. How old are they? Imoca two years old? 0:25:02.840 --> 0:25:06.520 And why you're Wow, that's wonderful, that's so fun. I 0:25:06.560 --> 0:25:09.760 have two daughters too, and but there twenty six and 0:25:09.840 --> 0:25:14.720 twenty one. Um, And I'm curious if your attitude has 0:25:14.840 --> 0:25:18.520 become a bit more relaxed, because, let's face it, parenthood 0:25:18.560 --> 0:25:24.119 can be very messy because kids can be very messy. So, um, 0:25:24.280 --> 0:25:29.320 have you changed at all in terms of feeling that 0:25:29.400 --> 0:25:35.560 you want to be super neat and tidy? Hi? Uh 0:25:35.600 --> 0:25:38.800 so it's true. After birth, Um, I became very different 0:25:38.840 --> 0:25:42.200 in my attitude. Um. I think before I gave birth, 0:25:42.359 --> 0:25:45.840 I was always clean, Everything was tidy and organized. But 0:25:45.960 --> 0:25:48.200 then I realized once I gave birth that it is 0:25:48.280 --> 0:25:51.400 quite impossible, and so I gave up being a perfectionist. 0:25:52.160 --> 0:25:54.840 Kids will do that to you, I think, and and 0:25:54.880 --> 0:25:57.879 are you going to teach them? Do you think, uh, 0:25:58.000 --> 0:26:01.520 the importance of being tidy? Or you think you'll just 0:26:01.600 --> 0:26:06.280 see if they naturally go that way? So this name. 0:26:09.040 --> 0:26:10.800 So one thing that I do try to keep in 0:26:10.880 --> 0:26:12.800 mind in front of my children is that I show 0:26:12.880 --> 0:26:20.600 my children how happy I am when I'm cleaning. So 0:26:21.080 --> 0:26:26.720