Speaker 1: Hi, everyone. Well it's just Katie today, no Brian. But
Speaker 1: the show must go on. As ethel Merman sings, there's
Speaker 1: no business like show business. Okay, you got the idea.
Speaker 1: So I'm coming to you today from my apartment, my closet,
Speaker 1: to be exact, it's fun once in a while for
Speaker 1: us to get out of the studio and be in
Speaker 1: a more relaxed setting. In fact, I'm so relaxed. I'm
Speaker 1: wearing my pajamas right now and my bedroom slippers. But
Speaker 1: they're not very sexy. They're Brooks Brothers pajamas. I look
Speaker 1: more like Lucy Ricardo than Maril and Monroe, So think
Speaker 1: about that for a minute. Anyway, I just said goodbye
Speaker 1: to our guest today, Well, my guests, since Brian's not here.
Speaker 1: Marie Condo. You probably have heard of Marie Condo. She's
Speaker 1: the queen of tidying and the creator of something called
Speaker 1: the con Marie Method. Have you ever heard someone say
Speaker 1: I just condoed my house. Well, they're talking about Marie Condo.
Speaker 1: She in fact, has made condoing a verb. Her books,
Speaker 1: including the runaway bestseller The Life Changing Magic of Tidying Up,
Speaker 1: have sold over eight million copies and She talks about
Speaker 1: really learning how to weed things out of your life,
Speaker 1: to basically throw things away. I have a real problem
Speaker 1: with this people, I don't know if you're like me.
Speaker 1: I'm a borderline hoarder. So this was very instructive for me.
Speaker 1: So I talked to her about why this is so emotional,
Speaker 1: how she started her tiding empire. Have her two young
Speaker 1: daughters two and one changed her it all is she
Speaker 1: less of a neat nick because she now has kids.
Speaker 1: I even let her loose in my closet. She's a
Speaker 1: very brave woman. And one last note, we had a
Speaker 1: wonderful Japanese interpreter Ico. She joined us for this episode,
Speaker 1: So things are going to sound a bit different, a
Speaker 1: little more global than usual. Here's how what will work.
Speaker 1: I'll ask a question, you'll hear Marie Condo answer in Japanese,
Speaker 1: and then Ico will come in with the English translation.
Speaker 1: It's going to be a lot of fun. Buckle up, everybody,
Speaker 1: let's do this thing. First of all, Ken, that's about
Speaker 1: the extent of my Japanese and erigato, which means thank you,
Speaker 1: Knishua means hello. Yes, all right, That's that's pretty much
Speaker 1: it for my Japanese vocabulary. But welcome to my home,
Speaker 1: and it's so nice to meet you. But the way
Speaker 1: to see this, they're very happy to be here. Thank you. Um.
Speaker 1: You have had such a fascinating life. You're thirty two
Speaker 1: years old, but your journey really began when you were
Speaker 1: just five. I understand you became obsessed with tidiness when
Speaker 1: you were that age. Do you remember that and do
Speaker 1: you remember what motivated it? Tost So, my mother used
Speaker 1: to read a lifestyle magazine UM that came to us
Speaker 1: all the time. We had a subscription, and I would
Speaker 1: read it every time the new one would come, and
Speaker 1: then I would try some of the housework tips and
Speaker 1: try some of the storage UM things that I really
Speaker 1: like to see how they worked. And your parents were
Speaker 1: they neat and tidy or were they messy? So my
Speaker 1: parents were quite average in that sense. They had a
Speaker 1: lot of things, and it looked at one glance as
Speaker 1: if everything was very clean and tidy, but the moment
Speaker 1: you opened something, the inside was a little bit more cletterer.
Speaker 1: I feel that. So the sums um, what did they
Speaker 1: make of your interest or propensity towards tidiness. Did they
Speaker 1: applauded or did they ever say, Marie, please don't clean
Speaker 1: up your room? So this name and what do she got?
Speaker 1: So one time, I very into tidying up and cleaning,
Speaker 1: and it's throwing things away. Um. This was around the
Speaker 1: time I was in middle school, and so some suits
Speaker 1: that my father really cherished or bags that my mother loved,
Speaker 1: actually threw away. And then they got very angry at
Speaker 1: me and told me not to tidy. I don't blame them.
Speaker 1: I would have been upset too. Now that I reflect
Speaker 1: on it, I really understand that I did something very mean. Um,
Speaker 1: But in my perspective at the time, I felt like, oh,
Speaker 1: they're not using these things. There's dust covered, They're never
Speaker 1: going to use it. And I was really working off
Speaker 1: my own perspective. You also started reading books on feng
Speaker 1: shui and on neatness when you were eighteen years old.
Speaker 1: You'd go to the library and study it. What kinds
Speaker 1: of books would you read? So it was around the
Speaker 1: time the fengue was becoming popular in Japan. So I
Speaker 1: was able to find these things called mooks, which in
Speaker 1: Japanese is the in between of magazin means and books,
Speaker 1: and so I was able to find these simple ones
Speaker 1: that I could actually read. When you turned nineteen, people
Speaker 1: started asking you to help them declutter, to help them,
Speaker 1: I guess, organized their lives. The waiting list got to
Speaker 1: be what six months long? What would you do for people?
Speaker 1: And how did that happen? Do you look? So when
Speaker 1: I was in nineteen, I went to university and my
Speaker 1: hobby then was to clean my friends places. And then
Speaker 1: sounds fun, so fun for you, that's right, And so
Speaker 1: rumors then spread through that between my friends and they're
Speaker 1: saying that when Comari comes over, your house becomes really
Speaker 1: clean and organized. And then since then strangers started to
Speaker 1: email me through that, and then eventually it became my work.
Speaker 1: That's so funny. How much did you charge? What you call? Um? So?
Speaker 1: At first I was a student, so I didn't really
Speaker 1: know how to price things at the time. UM, So
Speaker 1: when I was doing my friends places, they would just
Speaker 1: buy me lunch. But then eventually, UM, when when people
Speaker 1: asked for the charge, I wouldn't say for five hours, uh,
Speaker 1: five thousand yen, which is about fifty dollars. Wow, that's
Speaker 1: a pretty good deal in the day. So you decided
Speaker 1: to write a book because there was so much interest
Speaker 1: in this before I ask you about your book, Marie.
Speaker 1: Were you surprised that so many people wanted your services,
Speaker 1: especially college students? Um? So when I decided to write
Speaker 1: a book was quite after I had already graduated from university.
Speaker 1: How old were you when you wrote your proposal? No,
Speaker 1: so I could the pupils out of thank you five
Speaker 1: years old? So seven years ago. Yeah. And also the
Speaker 1: time when my wait list became about six months was
Speaker 1: maybe ten years after I started doing my job. Um.
Speaker 1: But all my friends and family who had experienced my
Speaker 1: journey has have all been very surprised about all of this. Um.
Speaker 1: Your book, The Life Changing Magic of Tidying Up is
Speaker 1: an international bestseller. How many copies have been sold? Marie? So,
Speaker 1: it's been sold in forty one countries. Um, and we've
Speaker 1: sold all together eight million, four hundred thousand. How do
Speaker 1: you say wow in Japanese? Initial wow? Wow, that's amazing. Um.
Speaker 1: I thought this was so interesting, Marie. It really took
Speaker 1: off after the tsunami in Japan and what happened that
Speaker 1: changed people's mindsets as a result of the tsunami. So,
Speaker 1: in Japan, right after this all happened, the tsunami, and
Speaker 1: everything was it was on TV every single day, and
Speaker 1: that actually led to a lot of people really reconsidering
Speaker 1: and thinking about what is important to them. Um, what
Speaker 1: is it that it's in my life that's important? And
Speaker 1: the first things that they may have thought about are
Speaker 1: the things that surround them or the things that they
Speaker 1: had owned. And I think that was something that led
Speaker 1: to UM, people reading my book. I imagine though people
Speaker 1: reconsidered material possessions and possibly thought some of them, we're
Speaker 1: not as important as they might have believed. So this
Speaker 1: designing it but UM, I think it's very true. UM,
Speaker 1: A lot of people really just spent their time looking
Speaker 1: over their things one at a time, and when they
Speaker 1: really took their times to think about each and everything,
Speaker 1: I think they started to realize that before it may
Speaker 1: have given them joy, but now that they look at
Speaker 1: it now, it doesn't give them as much joy anymore.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about the Connoree method if we could. UM.
Speaker 1: I've heard of it and I'm excited to learn more
Speaker 1: about it. But it's really, I guess, first and foremost
Speaker 1: about decluttering and simplifying your life. Is that right? Um?
Speaker 1: If anything, my method is really about really thinking about
Speaker 1: what makes you happy. UM. And then to be able
Speaker 1: to really treadure the things that are actually important to you.
Speaker 1: So that entails everything, uh, books, clothing, kitchen udencils, bathroom products, etcetera. Yes,
Speaker 1: so through this method, we look at every single thing
Speaker 1: that you own, and everything is supposed to bring you joy. Yes,
Speaker 1: So it's really about figuring out how each and everything
Speaker 1: really does give joy or not. Is that too limiting
Speaker 1: my produce? Sergianna asked, if you know she has a
Speaker 1: kitchen sponge, it doesn't necessarily bring her joy, but it's
Speaker 1: really important to have around the house. So how do
Speaker 1: you differentiate things that bring you joy and things that
Speaker 1: are just simply necessary to live? Looking me, Um, So
Speaker 1: that's actually a kind of question that I often get.
Speaker 1: So one thing about this method is that I hope
Speaker 1: that people discover and find, uh, even in the small
Speaker 1: things that are very helpful to you, that actually the
Speaker 1: fact that you have this thing that's helpful to you
Speaker 1: is actually giving you some joy, and that you feel
Speaker 1: gratitude towards even the smallest things. Tell her I'm never
Speaker 1: going to look at my kitchen sponge the same way. Well,
Speaker 1: not any me tonight. It's true. So people really start
Speaker 1: to really love even the small things like sponges. Really, alright, Gianna,
Speaker 1: let the record show you are loving your lunge. Um,
Speaker 1: what if what if too many things bring joy to someone.
Speaker 1: We're sitting in my closet. By the way, it's a
Speaker 1: it's a serious walking closet. I mean, if I could
Speaker 1: describe it for our listeners, it's really a bedroom that
Speaker 1: was converted into a closet. I'm embarrassed to say, but
Speaker 1: I have a lot of clothes, and for my job,
Speaker 1: not as much now as before. It was necessary for
Speaker 1: me to have a lot of clothes. And now look
Speaker 1: at it, it's ridiculous. I have so many clothes. I
Speaker 1: can't really find anything. Having said that, take me through
Speaker 1: how I would declutter this closet. And I'm sorry that
Speaker 1: was such a long question. I well cause I also
Speaker 1: regarding clothes, first of all, it's you have to look
Speaker 1: at all your clothes, um, So take them all out,
Speaker 1: whether they're clothes they're affolded, or whether they're clothes are hanging,
Speaker 1: bring them all into one place, and then bring them
Speaker 1: over to somewhere else, so that you actually have to
Speaker 1: take each piece of clothing each time and hold them,
Speaker 1: and you hold it and you put it close to
Speaker 1: your heart on the things give so UM. You definitely
Speaker 1: hold your clothes UM and then feel whether you feel
Speaker 1: these positive feelings or not UM, and then really feel
Speaker 1: these physical sensations of whether you feel positive by holding
Speaker 1: them UM. And that is something very fundamental in my
Speaker 1: Calmari method. I'm sure a lot of our listeners like
Speaker 1: me think, gosh, maybe this doesn't bring me joy now,
Speaker 1: but maybe it'll bring me joy later when I lose
Speaker 1: a few pounds or it comes back into style. So
Speaker 1: just in case I want to hang on to this UM,
Speaker 1: maybe I spent a fair amount of money on it,
Speaker 1: or maybe it's something that I think I might wear
Speaker 1: in the future. So I think people hold onto things
Speaker 1: with those thoughts in mind. How do you how do
Speaker 1: you get them to get out of that mind that
Speaker 1: it almost There are actually two ways must So the
Speaker 1: first method that I suggest is that when you go
Speaker 1: through all your clothing, just start with the things that
Speaker 1: are very apparent to you, so ones that you know
Speaker 1: immediately don't spark joy in you, or the things that
Speaker 1: maybe UM do you you know immediately that you want
Speaker 1: to keep UM. And by starting to let go of
Speaker 1: the things that are apparent to you that you don't
Speaker 1: want to keep. Then you start to actually be able
Speaker 1: to build the ability to recognize joy easier UM, and
Speaker 1: then you'll be able to work through your grayer zones
Speaker 1: as well the more still small oil UM. So regarding clothes,
Speaker 1: when when you're thinking one day that I'm going to
Speaker 1: wear this UM and it's it's really also important to
Speaker 1: think about why I'm thinking these things. How did I
Speaker 1: come to the idea of saying that I'm going to
Speaker 1: wear this one day, and whether that's something that's more heavy,
Speaker 1: for example, to be thinking, oh, I spent all this money,
Speaker 1: therefore I'm going to wear it one day, and maybe
Speaker 1: that's a more heavy sort of sensation as opposed to
Speaker 1: maybe it gives you joy to say, oh, um, you
Speaker 1: know this is going to encourage me to lose some weight,
Speaker 1: and if that's a positive feeling UM. And so to
Speaker 1: really understand these reasons and feel these sensations a positive
Speaker 1: or negative or heavy UM, and to really kind of
Speaker 1: taste almost the physical sensations that you feel when you
Speaker 1: come to these ideas UM can be very helpful. One
Speaker 1: of the sections in the book is seasonal Clothes Eliminate
Speaker 1: the need to store off season clothes, and you advocate
Speaker 1: pitching rather than storing. UM. So the reasoning behind is
Speaker 1: is that UM, in working with my clients, I did
Speaker 1: come across many cases where people did have UM, you know,
Speaker 1: a summer clothes put away or winter close put away
Speaker 1: depending on the season. UM. But by what I also
Speaker 1: found that is that a lot of people miss the
Speaker 1: opportunity to actually flip their clothing over with the seasons.
Speaker 1: Because you're storing so much, they have no idea how
Speaker 1: much they actually own, UM, and so UM they end
Speaker 1: up buying something that they actually already have. I've done that,
Speaker 1: so you have like UM, and so that leads to
Speaker 1: not understanding what they in fact own and then because
Speaker 1: of that, UM, not really seeing what's actually necessary for them.
Speaker 1: So you don't make the switch. So you try to
Speaker 1: have winter, spring, summer, and fall in your closet so
Speaker 1: at once. UM. Yes, at least for myself and many
Speaker 1: of my clients. UM, by the end of all the tidying,
Speaker 1: we're able to see what we have for all seasons.
Speaker 1: One exception possibly are things such as coats which are
Speaker 1: which do take up a lot of a lot of space,
Speaker 1: or boots they only wear in the winter, or on
Speaker 1: the flip side, swimwear that you own me where in
Speaker 1: the summer. These small things, they might actually do some
Speaker 1: seasonal switching around, especially here in New York, because people
Speaker 1: have very small closets. Um, this is unusual. Listeners, Please
Speaker 1: don't hate me because I have a big closet at
Speaker 1: by the way, but many people have very small spaces
Speaker 1: to keep their things. You can do, ladies, they thought,
Speaker 1: I'm not a um. So, it's definitely just a suggestion
Speaker 1: to really try and have everything in one place, all
Speaker 1: the clothes that you have in one place, and be
Speaker 1: able to know. What's really important is that you are
Speaker 1: able to know what you actually have at all times.
Speaker 1: We're going to take a quick break and we'll be
Speaker 1: right back with the delightful Charmie Marie Condo and now
Speaker 1: back to Marie Condo. There are a lot of books
Speaker 1: out there, self help books about organizing your life. Why
Speaker 1: do you think yours has resonated so much and sold
Speaker 1: so many copies? What's different about your technique so that
Speaker 1: won't let you? Um? So, I think it comes from
Speaker 1: the fact that my book is not just about cleaning
Speaker 1: your room, but rather it's about through the process of
Speaker 1: tidying and organizing to face yourself and to understand yourself better.
Speaker 1: What order do you need to declutter your life? You
Speaker 1: start with clothes and then you move on to other items.
Speaker 1: What is the order that you recommend so the in
Speaker 1: my method, I recommend that people start with clothes, then books,
Speaker 1: than documents, and then miscellaneous things, and then things that
Speaker 1: give you memories, sentim and some things. Yeah, I am extremely,
Speaker 1: extremely extremely sentimental, are you? It's all this new? What
Speaker 1: does she so? I might be more of a more
Speaker 1: kind of brisk sort of personality rather than super sentimental
Speaker 1: because of the work I do. You're lucky. You're lucky
Speaker 1: because I think a lot of people have a hard
Speaker 1: time parting with things that they feel represents their family
Speaker 1: or memories are very special. My husband isn't sentimental at all,
Speaker 1: but I'm super sentimental, so I have a hard time
Speaker 1: parting with things. So I'm glad it's the fourth thing
Speaker 1: on your list. I wanted to ask you the parallel
Speaker 1: between a clean, tidy environment and your peace of mind
Speaker 1: and what it does for you and your daily life,
Speaker 1: and how you've seen it change your clients and people
Speaker 1: you know, and yourself really. So as regarding the effects
Speaker 1: of a clean environment, I think it does have both
Speaker 1: a physical and psychological effect, and it probably reduces stress.
Speaker 1: Not feeling frantic looking for things and misplacing things and
Speaker 1: trying to find an item of clothing probably makes you
Speaker 1: less anxious. Yes, I agree. I think um, by being
Speaker 1: able to move along smoother throughout your day really does
Speaker 1: give you room to not have to worry about the
Speaker 1: small things. Um, and definitely lessons the stress in your life.
Speaker 1: You have many clients now, Um, how much do you charge?
Speaker 1: And what have you found that your clients have in common?
Speaker 1: I know everyone's different, but is there a common threat
Speaker 1: among them? Um? So actually I have sort of stopped
Speaker 1: right now to give private lessons or tidy. I'm more
Speaker 1: focused on teaching my method and so for example, doing
Speaker 1: these consulting to teach people how to actually do so
Speaker 1: you have disciples now who go out and teach your
Speaker 1: method to other people? Or do they have to be
Speaker 1: certified or take a class? Yes, that's true. I actually, um,
Speaker 1: we do give certifications and right now it's actually going on.
Speaker 1: But when you did have clients, when you saw people,
Speaker 1: was there a common threat among those clients, so all
Speaker 1: this name. So, one thing that I found is that
Speaker 1: not only did my clients really want to clean, but
Speaker 1: they often have some other related problems in their lives
Speaker 1: that they want to deal with and so and cleaning
Speaker 1: is just a sort of way to grapple at these problems.
Speaker 1: So it's a metaphor for something deeper that's troubling them.
Speaker 1: They need some kind of freeing. I think that's exactly right.
Speaker 1: Have you ever had hoarders or people who simply cannot
Speaker 1: part with their possessions and you've suggested psychiatric help. So
Speaker 1: this is designing. Um. I don't necessarily, um suggest psychological
Speaker 1: help or do psychological things necessarily, but through the process
Speaker 1: of tidying, many of my clients do notice in themselves
Speaker 1: certain psychological things. UM. For example, I had a client
Speaker 1: who said, oh, I have these tendencies because I have
Speaker 1: certain resentments towards my mother. Or I had clients who
Speaker 1: were saying that, oh, I'm keeping all these jobs. That's
Speaker 1: and that's related to this fear that I have towards
Speaker 1: my job. UM. So they do books books because I'm
Speaker 1: feeling certain fear or uncertainty about my jobs. UM. And
Speaker 1: so they often do come to certain psychological conclusions through that.
Speaker 1: So in Away Marie's the therapists, do you meet the
Speaker 1: attical talk those get on this give it's true? Um,
Speaker 1: I do you know? What I'm actually doing is the
Speaker 1: tidying and cleaning, But um, when we look at the results,
Speaker 1: I'm often doing something more psychological as well. What is
Speaker 1: the strangest thing you've seen a client really attached to
Speaker 1: that they couldn't let go, or any other strange experience
Speaker 1: you've had working with people. So one thing that comes
Speaker 1: to mind is one of my clients was a collector
Speaker 1: of masks from all over the world. Um, they had
Speaker 1: ballroom masks, all these different kinds of masks, and when
Speaker 1: you go into the room, it was quite a strange
Speaker 1: environment because there were faces everywhere. So did they get
Speaker 1: rid of them or keep them? Zimbo on the the
Speaker 1: ones that just brought them joy? I still still think,
Speaker 1: Um so yes. So she did go through every single
Speaker 1: mask to figure out what they actually sparked joy in her. Um,
Speaker 1: it ended up being quite a lot that remained that
Speaker 1: did spark joy. But she was quite proud because she
Speaker 1: could now confidently say, all of these mass leon are
Speaker 1: things that spark Joy. Are your Japanese clients or were
Speaker 1: your Japanese clients different than your American clients. So this
Speaker 1: one thing I noticed. I think generally speaking, UM Japanese
Speaker 1: and American clients tend to have sort of the similar
Speaker 1: problems regarding tidying. But one thing I did notice is
Speaker 1: that UM people Western people often have more sentimental attachment
Speaker 1: towards their things UM, especially things that have a lot
Speaker 1: of memory, maybe things that were passed on UM or inherited.
Speaker 1: Our Japanese people in general a little less. Do they
Speaker 1: accumulate less? Are they more minimalists in their kind of
Speaker 1: design and possessions or is that just something that I
Speaker 1: think it's like because a lot of people do wonder
Speaker 1: that UM. But the thing is, I do think it's
Speaker 1: maybe sort of a myth that's sort of created UM.
Speaker 1: And actually there's really a lot of people who own
Speaker 1: a lot of things in Japan as well, so they
Speaker 1: fall victim to clutter to No, It's true. We have
Speaker 1: UM a listener voicemail that I thought we would play,
Speaker 1: and then we have some Twitter questions as well. Hi,
Speaker 1: I had a question for Marie Condo. I was wondering,
Speaker 1: what's something in her home that is totally unnecessary, but
Speaker 1: she keeps because it sparks her joy. Thanks. No antique. No,
Speaker 1: So I have this pair of antique tongues. Um. That's
Speaker 1: actually very difficult to use. Um, and I very very
Speaker 1: rarely use it, but whenever I just look at it,
Speaker 1: when I opened the drawers, it just gives me so
Speaker 1: much joy. All right, good to know. Um, you have
Speaker 1: two young daughters. How old are they? Imoca two years old?
Speaker 1: And why you're Wow, that's wonderful, that's so fun. I
Speaker 1: have two daughters too, and but there twenty six and
Speaker 1: twenty one. Um, And I'm curious if your attitude has
Speaker 1: become a bit more relaxed, because, let's face it, parenthood
Speaker 1: can be very messy because kids can be very messy. So, um,
Speaker 1: have you changed at all in terms of feeling that
Speaker 1: you want to be super neat and tidy? Hi? Uh
Speaker 1: so it's true. After birth, Um, I became very different
Speaker 1: in my attitude. Um. I think before I gave birth,
Speaker 1: I was always clean, Everything was tidy and organized. But
Speaker 1: then I realized once I gave birth that it is
Speaker 1: quite impossible, and so I gave up being a perfectionist.
Speaker 1: Kids will do that to you, I think, and and
Speaker 1: are you going to teach them? Do you think, uh,
Speaker 1: the importance of being tidy? Or you think you'll just
Speaker 1: see if they naturally go that way? So this name.
Speaker 1: So one thing that I do try to keep in
Speaker 1: mind in front of my children is that I show
Speaker 1: my children how happy I am when I'm cleaning. So
Speaker 1: I actually really so cute right now. Marie's husband showed
Speaker 1: me a picture of their little girl. Is she cleaning? Oh,
Speaker 1: she's folding. She's folding her blanket. Oh my god, that's hilarious.
Speaker 1: What's her name? That's key? So cute? And she's how old?
Speaker 1: To your sold she's your two year old? So cute.
Speaker 1: You're starting them young. That's good though, you know, I
Speaker 1: think you know, I think that's great. I wish I
Speaker 1: had done that with my daughter's My older daughter really
Speaker 1: does try to fold and roll things now because she's
Speaker 1: been seeing me just be happy folding. I'm just curious.
Speaker 1: Your closet probably looks quite different than this closet. How
Speaker 1: many items of clothing do you have in your closet?
Speaker 1: To nine disco? Um, So, I've actually never really counted
Speaker 1: how many I've had I have, but I have a
Speaker 1: closet this big, this wide, just a regular closet, and
Speaker 1: that's where i'd fit all my clothes. But I mean
Speaker 1: twenty items of close thirty So this this on to
Speaker 1: maybe about forty. And you always wear white. Now it's
Speaker 1: only when I'm at my job that I would wear white. Um.
Speaker 1: On other days, I just wear any other colors. And
Speaker 1: but you no longer wear pants because pants don't give
Speaker 1: you joy jeans, So I have always been saying I
Speaker 1: actually don't wear jeans or a long pants ever. Um.
Speaker 1: But actually last year my husband actually recommend this and
Speaker 1: suggested that maybe I try. I actually bought one pair
Speaker 1: of jeans. I'm sure you look great in them. You're
Speaker 1: teeny tiny. How tall are you and how much do
Speaker 1: you weigh? I know that's a very personal question, but
Speaker 1: I feel safe asking you. So I only know it
Speaker 1: in centimeters. But I'm a hundred and forty seven centimeters,
Speaker 1: which is I think fourfeit eight four ft eight yeah,
Speaker 1: I think it is four ft eight yeah. Uh. And
Speaker 1: I'm thirty seven kilograms, which is that's eighty one and
Speaker 1: a half pounds. You. This is a pretty powerful lady
Speaker 1: in a teeny body. Did you ever imagine that you
Speaker 1: would make a whole career out of this, out of
Speaker 1: helping people tidy up. Yeah, I never thought that this
Speaker 1: would be something that I would be doing. Um As
Speaker 1: a small child, I had idea that tidy and could
Speaker 1: be so life changing for so many people, and even
Speaker 1: today and here I am now and I'm still very surprised.
Speaker 1: What happens when you throw something away and you regret
Speaker 1: it and you miss it and you think, oh, I
Speaker 1: wish I had that. That's actually something that everybody who
Speaker 1: has tidied and done this kind of tiding does experience
Speaker 1: this sort of regret of having let go of something
Speaker 1: that they didn't want to actually let go of. But
Speaker 1: that experience is actually quite important to actually learn what
Speaker 1: that feels like and to feel that, oh, these are
Speaker 1: some of the things that I shouldn't be letting go of,
Speaker 1: something that's actually important to me. And of course, ideally
Speaker 1: in your first try, you actually know immediately what you're
Speaker 1: going to regret and where you're not going to regret.
Speaker 1: But that's not always the case. But I want to
Speaker 1: I want people to see that kind of experience of
Speaker 1: understanding regret and to put a positive spin on it.
Speaker 1: And understand that, Oh, now I've learned some thing through
Speaker 1: this process of tidying, and now when I look to
Speaker 1: do it again, I'll maybe understand better what brings me
Speaker 1: joy and what I'm able to part with some of
Speaker 1: this some more. And I've also noticed that people who
Speaker 1: have actually gone through this process of tidying and organizing
Speaker 1: often might feel the certain regret, But um, don't actually
Speaker 1: feel that at a very deep sense or a depressing way. Um,
Speaker 1: once you've actually gone through the process of tidying, that's
Speaker 1: sort of a change in feelings that you received through
Speaker 1: the process, sort of a fleeting moment, but not a
Speaker 1: depressing moment. Did you ever worry growing up that you're
Speaker 1: desire to be neat and tidy was less of a
Speaker 1: passion and more of a obsession or compulsion, not to
Speaker 1: psychoanalyze you or anything more. Oh, this is um sure. Actually,
Speaker 1: when I was a student, I think I was quite
Speaker 1: obsessed with tidying. Um. I've always felt that I must
Speaker 1: throw things away, or I must organize, I must tidy.
Speaker 1: But when it actually became my job and I started
Speaker 1: to work with clients and actually start to see the
Speaker 1: positive effects that my tidying has created with my clients. Um,
Speaker 1: that's when I suddenly realized that, oh wait, actually this
Speaker 1: has become my passion and this is like a passionate
Speaker 1: thing for me. So you don't worry about it anymore.
Speaker 1: Because your college thesis was how to declutter your apartment
Speaker 1: from a sociological perspective. Yes, I did write about tidying
Speaker 1: up in my college thesis. So you still love doing
Speaker 1: this and talking about it and sharing what you do
Speaker 1: with others. Yes, I'm actually even surprised by how passionate
Speaker 1: I get when I speak about tidying even today. A
Speaker 1: huge thank you as always to my production team for
Speaker 1: taking the show on the road today, Gianna Palmer, our producer,
Speaker 1: Jared O'Connell, our audio engineer who's just getting over a
Speaker 1: bad cold, So an extra thank you to Jared. Please
Speaker 1: don't touch anything in my apartment, Jared and Nora Richie,
Speaker 1: our production assistant. As well, thanks to our social media
Speaker 1: whiz kid I can call you a kid, Alexon Bresnik,
Speaker 1: and to the inimitable Emily Beena over at Katie Kirk Media.
Speaker 1: Also a very special thanks to our interpreter for this episode,
Speaker 1: Iko Massubucci. We could not have done this without you. Iko. Also,
Speaker 1: our friends over at Architectural Digests actually made a video
Speaker 1: of this whole process, as Marie taught me how to
Speaker 1: part with things that I've had way too long. The
Speaker 1: video will be out by the time you hear this,
Speaker 1: and I'll link to it on social media so you
Speaker 1: can all see it and hopefully learn something. Brian gold
Speaker 1: Smith and I are the show's executive producers. Mark Phillips
Speaker 1: wrote our theme music. And people please stay in touch.
Speaker 1: Email us at comments at currec podcast dot com. Leave
Speaker 1: a voicemail at nine to nine to two, four, four, six,
Speaker 1: three seven. Tell us the episodes you've enjoyed. Tell us
Speaker 1: who you'd like to hear from. We're always looking for
Speaker 1: great guests. Johann I thought Danny Meyer would be a
Speaker 1: really fun guest anyway. Jeanne is sitting on the floor
Speaker 1: of my closet right now. I'm on Twitter, Instagram and
Speaker 1: Facebook under Katie Curic, and I'm Katie dot Kuric on
Speaker 1: Snapchat because I'm so like the kids. Thanks so much
Speaker 1: for listening. We'll talk to you next time.