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Speaker 1: Pushkin, Happy Holidays, Happiness lab fans. This is supposed to

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Speaker 1: be the most wonderful time of the year, but many

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Speaker 1: of us kind of wished December came with a survival guide,

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Speaker 1: which is why we asked you to tell us all

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Speaker 1: your holiday stresses so that I and my special seasonal

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Speaker 1: guest actor Rain Wilson can help find some solutions. You

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Speaker 1: probably know Rain from Dwight on the Office or his

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Speaker 1: countless other acting credits, but Rain is also an author

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Speaker 1: and a podcaster with lots of wise things to say

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Speaker 1: about spirituality and what it means to be human. If

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Speaker 1: you haven't already, you should check out his show soul Boom.

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Speaker 1: Last time, Rain and I discussed dining table dynamics like

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Speaker 1: how to diffuse political arguments over dessert and how to

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Speaker 1: deflect annoying questions about your lack of a love life.

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Speaker 1: But we only scratched the surface on all the seasonal

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Speaker 1: woes you asked us about. Oh, let's dive back into

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Speaker 1: that conversation. So I'm just curious, like, when you think

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Speaker 1: about holidays, what do you think about? Although I guess

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Speaker 1: there's one thing you think about when you think about holidays,

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Speaker 1: which is you think about your wife whose day is holiday?

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Speaker 2: Correct?

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Speaker 3: My favorite holiday holiday is Holiday ron Horn, my wife.

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Speaker 3: So during the holidays, I'm thinking about holiday. But listen,

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Speaker 3: I I am a member of the Bahi faith. We

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Speaker 3: have our own set of holidays or holy days. But

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Speaker 3: I also grew up celebrating Christmas with big parts of

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Speaker 3: my family, and I have positive memories. My favorite holiday

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Speaker 3: is Thanksgiving because I feel like if you can put

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Speaker 3: the thanks and Thanksgiving and really just enjoy eating together

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Speaker 3: and connecting over a table, it's incredibly powerful. But yeah,

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Speaker 3: I have good experiences and pleasurable thoughts, but I know

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Speaker 3: it can be fraught for a lot of people.

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Speaker 1: Okay, we're going to have interesting conversation because in my

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Speaker 1: instant reaction about holiday is not that it is awesome.

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Speaker 1: It is like you say, the holidays are coming, and

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Speaker 1: I feel my Cortissoult levels going up a little bit

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Speaker 1: in my stress hormones. And yeah, I'm not a winter

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Speaker 1: holiday fan. I'm a Halloween girl. I like the costumes,

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Speaker 1: I like the spooky, I like the candy. Thanksgiving's fine,

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Speaker 1: but the winter holidays, yeah, my stress levels rise. So

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Speaker 1: I'm going to need your help here.

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Speaker 2: You got it.

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Speaker 1: Here we go okay, gift giving holidays feel the good

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Speaker 1: time when we're supposed to be giving people stuff, and

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Speaker 1: it means that we sometimes get sucked into the consumerist

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Speaker 1: culture that makes us feel kind of crappy. And this

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Speaker 1: was something that Rachel brought up. She noted that her

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Speaker 1: holiday happiness sucker is the stress of gift giving. How

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Speaker 1: much to spend? Is it a good gift? Do they

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Speaker 1: actually want it? Who do I have to buy it for?

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Speaker 1: Feeling shame or guilt if someone got you a gift

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Speaker 1: and you didn't match the gift. How can we get

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Speaker 1: past the consumerism in the holiday season? And I think

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Speaker 1: the answer correct me if I'm wrong wing, But I

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Speaker 1: think the answer is not princess unicorns in the Office.

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Speaker 1: I think that that's like maybe not the answer.

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Speaker 3: Is that I was actually gonna say that it is

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Speaker 3: exactly the answer.

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Speaker 1: Because if everyone just gave each other princess unicorns, the

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Speaker 1: world now.

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Speaker 3: Princess Unicorn dolls is for anyone you know, Office fan,

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Speaker 3: unicorn fan, princess fan, toy fan.

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Speaker 2: It scratches every itch. For those who don't know.

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Speaker 3: An episode of the Office in which Dwight is buying

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Speaker 3: up all the princess unicorn dolls because they're the hot

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Speaker 3: toy of that year, and it's the catchphrases my horn

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Speaker 3: can touch the sky and it's a unicorn girl with

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Speaker 3: a big horn. I think you can actually buy princess

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Speaker 3: unicorns out there. I think they market them. But yeah,

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Speaker 3: I think it's a it's a great episode and a

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Speaker 3: great stocking stuffer. Do you know one thing that drives

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Speaker 3: me crazy, Laurie is like the pressure to bring something

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Speaker 3: over when you go to visit someone or to have

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Speaker 3: dinner with them, Like you've got to bring a bottle

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Speaker 3: of wine or flowers, maybe chocolates, but or something from

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Speaker 3: your garden or a little plant, right, but those are

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Speaker 3: and like why do we do that?

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Speaker 2: We don't have to do that it.

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Speaker 3: I don't like it when people show up, like here's

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Speaker 3: wine I don't drink. Here's some chocolates. I'm trying to

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Speaker 3: lose weight, you know. Here's some flowers. Great, they'll be

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Speaker 3: alive for four days and then I got to throw

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Speaker 3: them out and.

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Speaker 2: Dump out the stinky water. Like why do we keep

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Speaker 2: doing that?

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Speaker 1: It's well this I know you don't go through this,

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Speaker 1: but this is like on extreme overdrive in the holidays, right,

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Speaker 1: families try to one up each other and really worried

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Speaker 1: about that, and so yeah, I mean, given that you

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Speaker 1: experience it in the context of the going over the

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Speaker 1: folks houses for the gifts, like, how do you deal

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Speaker 1: with it? I mean one of those strategies I like

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Speaker 1: to tell people about is to try to get back

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Speaker 1: to the best kinds of gifts, which are your presence,

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Speaker 1: maybe a fun experience, curiously asking someone deep questions about

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Speaker 1: their lives. Those are the things that are going to

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Speaker 1: make them feel much better than you know, a parasox

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Speaker 1: or you know, a new gadget or something like that.

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Speaker 1: So getting back to the you know, the reason behind

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Speaker 1: the season, as cheesy as it sounds, the.

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Speaker 2: Reason behind the season, I love that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think a framed photograph is always good, and

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Speaker 3: you can get up maybe even a photograph they sent

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Speaker 3: you throughout the year or something like that, get it

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Speaker 3: because a lot of people, you know, we have these

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Speaker 3: libraries of like fifteen thousand photographs in our photo library

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Speaker 3: that we only occasionally pop up in memories. People rarely

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Speaker 3: stop to get them kind of printed out and put

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Speaker 3: on their shelves. So I'm just just bonus, I'm not

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Speaker 3: really dealing with the psychology behind it.

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Speaker 2: But bonus, a photograph is always a great stocking stuffer.

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Speaker 1: And the beauty is I think relative to other gifts relatives,

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Speaker 1: like you know, I don't know, an iPhone or a

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Speaker 1: trip to Europe or something. It's actually pretty cheap.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, pretty cheap.

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Speaker 1: And I guess a different thing that comes up in

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Speaker 1: the holiday season, which is the stress of finances, partly

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Speaker 1: about gifts, but partly about you know, having the best

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Speaker 1: holiday presentation and how much food you buy and all

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Speaker 1: this stuff. Traveling to visit family members. This can be

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Speaker 1: a time when people are feeling like they just don't

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Speaker 1: have enough any advice for kind of that crunch feeling

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Speaker 1: where you're like, I just feel like I don't have

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Speaker 1: enough money right now.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I think that if you have to cancel,

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Speaker 3: I think that that's.

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Speaker 2: Fine to take care of your finances.

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Speaker 3: And I just think on the family's part, we have

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Speaker 3: to always be very cognizant of, like, you know, what

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Speaker 3: percentage of someone's salary or savings are they doing. Because

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Speaker 3: flying has gotten way more expensive by the way, I

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Speaker 3: don't know if you've noticed it, but used to kind

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Speaker 3: of be able to fly anywhere for like, oh, two hundred,

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Speaker 3: four hundred and six hundred bucks kind of get anywhere.

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Speaker 3: Now it's like double triple that. It's a big investment.

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Speaker 3: So we have to just be very sensitive to people

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Speaker 3: are financially Yeah, but I don't know, what do you think?

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Speaker 3: What do you tell folks when they're struggling with their

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Speaker 3: balancing commitments and obligations and they want to be a

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Speaker 3: part of the family, but you may not be able

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Speaker 3: to afford it, And maybe that makes brings low self

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Speaker 3: esteem because you feel like, oh, I should have more

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Speaker 3: money to be able to spend three thousand dollars to

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Speaker 3: travel my family for a Christmas trip.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I think this gets back to figuring out

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Speaker 1: what things are really about and maybe something I know

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Speaker 1: you talk a lot about in Soulboom, which is like

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Speaker 1: coming up with your own rituals. Right, we have the

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Speaker 1: rituals that we're supposed to do. You know, we fly

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Speaker 1: to the family and we have all these presents or

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Speaker 1: whatever it is. But we can get creative with the

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Speaker 1: rituals if we figure out the value that's under it,

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Speaker 1: like the values that we're spending some time together, right,

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Speaker 1: you know, maybe that means we get together over zoom

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Speaker 1: and we play some like you know, goofy games. We

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Speaker 1: go back to like old COVID COVID days, like connecting

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Speaker 1: that way if you can't fly out, or we do

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Speaker 1: no present. You know, maybe all the presents are just

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Speaker 1: crafts or something we make for each other, or it's

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Speaker 1: photos that we print out, drawings that we give each other,

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Speaker 1: write poems for each other. It sounds cheesy, but really

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Speaker 1: what we want to be doing is showing our togetherness

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Speaker 1: and connection. And you know the latest gadget isn't really

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Speaker 1: going to do that.

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Speaker 2: Well said, yeah, I love that all right.

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Speaker 3: Here.

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Speaker 1: We had lots of questions on gift giving. I know

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Speaker 1: this is not your domain of expertise, and so maybe

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Speaker 1: i'll have I'll have you ask me the question.

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Speaker 2: Okay, let's do it.

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Speaker 1: I like this one because it really feels a little

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Speaker 1: bit out of an office Christmas special, like maybe it

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Speaker 1: actually happened on the office, but you can yeah, you

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Speaker 1: can tell me. Okay, here it is.

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Speaker 3: This is from an anonymous viewer. I once gave an

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Speaker 3: office mate a foot massager, the very same gift she

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Speaker 3: had given me the year before, which I had forgot.

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Speaker 3: Then I had to make up something about how I

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Speaker 3: knew she liked it so much that I got her

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Speaker 3: one two very embarrassing. Taught me not to regift. That

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Speaker 3: sounds like an episode of the Office right there. That

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Speaker 3: is something absolutely so many characters, Dwight, Andy Michael could

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Speaker 3: regift be like I got you that last year, Like

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Speaker 3: oh no, no, I knew you.

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Speaker 2: Liked it, so I got you a new one. But

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Speaker 2: I'm a huge fan of regifting.

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Speaker 3: In fact, I talked about people coming over like they'll

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Speaker 3: give like little things or chocolates, or sometimes it's like coffee,

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Speaker 3: and we have this secret stash of like the stuff

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Speaker 3: we've been given and we're going to take that out.

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Speaker 3: I have a little baggy, a beautiful little baggy with

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Speaker 3: some gor and mat coffee beans in it that someone

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Speaker 3: gave and I can't wait to go over to someone's house.

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Speaker 2: I'm just gonna grab it off the shelf and be like,

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Speaker 2: I got you some coffee. So I'm a big fan

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Speaker 2: of the regifting.

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Speaker 1: But yes, you think there's nothing wrong with this, maybe

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Speaker 1: write down on a little post it note who gave

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Speaker 1: you the coffee so you don't give it directly back

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Speaker 1: to that person When you find it in the regifting.

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Speaker 2: I'd like to live dangerously. Let's go for it. I

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Speaker 2: live on the edge.

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Speaker 3: I may give it back to the exact same person

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Speaker 3: who gave it to me. That's how I roll. But yeah,

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Speaker 3: I think regifting is awesome.

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Speaker 1: Okay, all right, Well we'll leave that one in there.

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Speaker 1: I think maybe a piece of advice for this particular

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Speaker 1: person is a little bit of self compassion. We all

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Speaker 1: give gifts that like bomb Sometimes I have occasionally given

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Speaker 1: a gift to someone that I gave them the year before,

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Speaker 1: not regifted, but just like literally the same gift because

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Speaker 1: I didn't have a good idea of what to get them.

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Speaker 1: And so that's a time to take a deep breath

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Speaker 1: and say, nobody's perfect. Everybody gives crappy gifts. Sometimes it's okay.

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Speaker 2: It's the thought that counts.

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Speaker 1: The thought that counts, which is a nice transition to

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Speaker 1: how we can have thoughts that don't feel so overwhelmed

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Speaker 1: during an holiday season. Next holiday woe that we heard

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Speaker 1: lots of folks bringing up is how we can prioritize

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Speaker 1: balance and rest in a tough holiday season. One anonymous,

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Speaker 1: a listener on Instagram, said that her holiday woe is

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Speaker 1: that it's so hard to be marry with so much

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Speaker 1: to do? How do we find way is to take

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Speaker 1: stuff off our plates during the busy holiday season?

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Speaker 2: Boy, that's great.

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Speaker 3: I feel like this should have been an episode for

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Speaker 3: the Office ladies.

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Speaker 2: I feel like.

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Speaker 3: Jenna and Angela would have like nailed these questions so much.

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Speaker 1: Well, we could do. I could call them up and see,

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Speaker 1: we'll do a second round and I'll do exactly the

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Speaker 1: same questions with them with.

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Speaker 3: You, I love it, or they'll do next year's Christmas episode.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, you know my favorite analogy.

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Speaker 3: It's used a lot and people have probably heard it,

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Speaker 3: but it's like they say on the airlines, like when

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Speaker 3: the oxygen mask drops, like you put on your own

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Speaker 3: oxygen mask first so that you can put it on

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Speaker 3: your kids later and other people's And that's kind of

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Speaker 3: how life works, Like we have to take care of

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Speaker 3: ourselves first so that we can be there for other people.

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Speaker 3: And the purpose of that is so that we can

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Speaker 3: be there for others and be a service to others.

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Speaker 3: So it's super important to get enough rest, not overwhelm,

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Speaker 3: you know, ask people for help again. That perfectionism, and

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Speaker 3: I would love to hear a little bit more about

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Speaker 3: how perfectionism works and it oftentimes takes us so far

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Speaker 3: away from joy.

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Speaker 2: Just that that pressure we put on ourselves.

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Speaker 3: To exceed expectations, to get self esteem from what we

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Speaker 3: do instead of who we are.

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Speaker 2: Because I think a lot of that, Like if you're

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Speaker 2: if you're really that busy that you can't be merry, you're.

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Speaker 3: Doing Christmas wrong. Something's wrong. If you're so busy there's

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Speaker 3: not time for joy. I'm sure that's not what Jesus

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Speaker 3: and the saints wanted from us.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I think the key is that we need to Again.

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Speaker 1: It gets back to this idea of vigilance, right, like

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Speaker 1: you kind of have to notice what's going on. And

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Speaker 1: it gets back to this idea that negative emotions are

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Speaker 1: telling us something really important. We were talking before about

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Speaker 1: grief and sort of noticing our sadness. That means we

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Speaker 1: need space and time to deal with it. I think

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Speaker 1: we really need to notice and allow during the holiday

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Speaker 1: season is overwhelmed, Like you know, when you're baking the

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Speaker 1: cookies and you're slamming the sugar around, You're like like

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Speaker 1: that's telling you, Oh, this is a signal, like like

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Speaker 1: the tire you know, button coming on. In my car.

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Speaker 1: This is a signal that my you know, overwhelmed tire

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Speaker 1: light is coming on and I need a break, you know,

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Speaker 1: I need to maybe do a little bit less, less events,

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Speaker 1: less stuff, take something off the plate. When we think

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Speaker 1: about having a happier holiday, and we often think what

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Speaker 1: we could add, you know, we need more presence, if

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Speaker 1: we need more time, or more Christmas carols, or more

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Speaker 1: whatever it is. We often don't think of what we

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Speaker 1: can take away. But I feel like the solution to

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Speaker 1: so many of our holiday woes is take something off

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Speaker 1: our plate, for example, taking some work off our plate.

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Speaker 1: This was something we heard a lot, which is that

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Speaker 1: a lot of people have a hard time being merry

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Speaker 1: in the holiday season because they experience a lot of

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Speaker 1: work stress. Julia on Instagram says, helly, I saw your

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Speaker 1: post about the holidays. Here's my woe. It's hard for

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Speaker 1: me to stop and settle into a relax rhythm without

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Speaker 1: thinking about work anyways, that you can fight workoholism in

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Speaker 1: the holidays that you're settling in with the hot chocolate,

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Speaker 1: But back of your mind is like you have to

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Speaker 1: edit that podcast, those emails in your inbox, who's going

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Speaker 1: to answer them?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I just I think that workoholism is something that

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Speaker 3: has to be unpacked. So it often comes from kind

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Speaker 3: of a most overused word of the decade, trauma, But

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Speaker 3: there oftentimes is a trauma component to workoholism, of like,

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Speaker 3: I'm only going to get love by accomplishing, yes, and

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Speaker 3: not only that, I've got to accomplish a lot, not

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Speaker 3: just accomplish the regular amount. I've got to accomplish more

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Speaker 3: than anyone else, and that is going to get me love.

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Speaker 3: It's going to get me noticed, get me acceptance, get

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Speaker 3: me embraced, get me complimented.

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Speaker 2: And if that is the.

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Speaker 3: Case, that's going to take a little work that's going

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Speaker 3: to take years, not months, to kind of undo about.

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Speaker 3: It's kind of like it's similar to like a deprivation mentality.

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Speaker 3: There's so many people that grew up poor and they

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Speaker 3: just feel like they need to earn in order to survive,

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Speaker 3: even though they've got plenty of money, but like a

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Speaker 3: kind of a panic sets in.

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Speaker 2: It's like the old stories about.

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Speaker 3: People that grew up in an orphanage, but they and

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Speaker 3: they're living in a multimillion dollar house later on in life,

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Speaker 3: but they still hide cookies under the mattress. And this

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Speaker 3: is a phenomenon, this actually does happen where there's a

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Speaker 3: feeling of safety.

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Speaker 2: Of having that cookie under the mattress.

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Speaker 3: So, yeah, workoholism, you know, a deprivation mindset. These are

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Speaker 3: kind of cookie under the mattress moments, and you've got

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Speaker 3: to go back to the beginning of like, hey, where

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Speaker 3: did this come from and why?

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Speaker 2: So sometimes it's.

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Speaker 3: Hard in the holidays, you just got a lot of

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Speaker 3: it's the end of the year, you got a lot

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Speaker 3: of stuff due, and it's it's just how it shakes

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Speaker 3: down being prepared planned, say, here's going to be my workdays.

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Speaker 3: Here's the days I'm especially with phones and emails. I

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Speaker 3: took email off my phone nice because I feel like,

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Speaker 3: you know, I could check my email three times a

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Speaker 3: day from my computer. I don't need to be checking

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Speaker 3: my email Lourie twenty times a day and getting back

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Speaker 3: to people.

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Speaker 2: I always feel this compunction. I got to get back

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Speaker 2: to them right away.

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Speaker 1: The itchiness, the itchiness, yep, yep. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, It's like I could slow it down five pm.

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Speaker 2: I'll get on. I'll respond to three or four emails

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Speaker 2: and then move on.

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Speaker 3: But you know, I've got to unpack this workoholism, see

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Speaker 3: where it comes from, and recalibrate to feel like I

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Speaker 3: am enough. I'm going to have enough self worth. I

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Speaker 3: don't need to accomplish so much and be so perfect

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Speaker 3: in order to get love.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this is great because there's two pieces of advice

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Speaker 1: in there, one kind of local for the holidays and

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Speaker 1: one broader local is do little silly hacks to get

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Speaker 1: the work out of your holiday celebration. So if that

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Speaker 1: means just deleting your email app just for one week

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Speaker 1: in December while you're home with the family, great, and

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Speaker 1: then it'll ma get a little bit harder, give yourself

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Speaker 1: a little bit of friction to go to the normal

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Speaker 1: itchy finger check your email or jump into work. That's

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Speaker 1: the kind of local.

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Speaker 3: And let me say part two of local one another

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Speaker 3: thing that really works because I am a phone addict. Okay,

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Speaker 3: straight up, Phone on a shelf, Elf on a shelf.

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Speaker 1: Phone on a shelf.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, your holidays here, you heard it here, Phone

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Speaker 3: on a shelf, Folks, Phone on a shelf. Have your phone,

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Speaker 3: don't worry, just put it up on the shelf, have

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Speaker 3: it not in your pocket. Interact with people you feel

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Speaker 3: that itch just go over to the shelf. You can

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Speaker 3: check it real quick. If you want to take a photo,

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Speaker 3: go get it, take the.

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Speaker 2: Photo, put it back.

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Speaker 3: But this will reduce I don't know what the data is,

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Speaker 3: but for me, when I do something like that, I

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Speaker 3: would say I'm interacting with my phone ten times less,

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Speaker 3: but I'm not missing out on anything.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this is the sad thing about human psychology is

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Speaker 1: how easy it is to put in a little bit

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Speaker 1: of friction. Like it's not like you put your phone

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Speaker 1: in Antarctic, Like it's just on.

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Speaker 2: A shelf or a safe or something, or it's safe.

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Speaker 1: You have to crack it. No, it's just on a shelf.

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Speaker 1: But just not being in your pocket, in your hand,

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Speaker 1: right next to you on the dinner table. It just

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Speaker 1: makes it a little bit trickier to go for it.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, you'll just use it a little bit less.

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Speaker 1: So phone on a shelf, hashtag phone on a shelf

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty five.

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Speaker 2: There you do, hashtag phone on a shelf.

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Speaker 3: My wife and I used to host these kind of

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Speaker 3: youth events when my son was a teenager and preteen,

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Speaker 3: and we would always have a basket and all the

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Speaker 3: phones go in the basket and because a bunch of

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Speaker 3: fifteen year olds doing activities or playing games or what

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Speaker 3: have you, is so much better when they're not just

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Speaker 3: on the phone documenting everything, looking all the time.

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Speaker 2: And maybe families can do that. Can you have over

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Speaker 2: the holidays?

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Speaker 3: You find a great deal more connection and mental health

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Speaker 3: by putting phones in a basket or kind of say hey,

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Speaker 3: for this dinner, I've got a basket.

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Speaker 2: Everyone, let's put your phones.

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Speaker 1: What do you think and you could decorate the basket.

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Speaker 1: It could have little pieces of holly or like you know,

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Speaker 1: Minora symbols or whatever your own faith tradition is to

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Speaker 1: put the phones in a basket.

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Speaker 3: Or characters from like one floor of the Cuckoo's Nest,

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Speaker 3: because it has to do with mental health, so you

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Speaker 3: know deranged human beings and say we're not going to

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Speaker 3: end up like these people, and we're going to put

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Speaker 3: our phone in a basket.

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Speaker 2: But that might be something you want to communicate ahead of.

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Speaker 3: Time, to say, Hey, for our Christmas dinner, I have

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Speaker 3: this idea, what if we put our phones away, and

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Speaker 3: not just in our pockets, but away. We got off

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Speaker 3: track here a little bit, but there was something else

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Speaker 3: you were going to bring up.

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Speaker 1: Oh, but yes. But there was the meta point, which

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Speaker 1: I love, which is workaholism. You're not going to solve

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Speaker 1: it between you know, December twenty fourth and December twenty sixth.

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00:20:09,196 --> 00:20:11,316
Speaker 1: It's a bigger issue that you need to process some

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Speaker 1: trauma and so on. And I think this is a

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Speaker 1: broader point for everything we're talking about here, Like some

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Speaker 1: of our families have some deep seated stuff. Some of

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Speaker 1: us are going through some grief that's really hard. Some

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Speaker 1: of us are navigating lots of perfectionism beyond just the

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Speaker 1: holiday dinner table. Take a breath. You don't have to

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Speaker 1: solve everything over the holidays, but noticing those moments of frustration,

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Speaker 1: noticing the pain points during the holidays gives you a

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Speaker 1: nice checklist of things that you can pay attention to

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Speaker 1: in the new year when you get a little bit

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Speaker 1: of a breath later. So it's kind of you know,

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Speaker 1: if your tire light comes on, you don't necessarily have

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Speaker 1: to immediately screech off the road and deal with your

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Speaker 1: tire light then, but you kind of take some time

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Speaker 1: to put it in the queue to deal with later.

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Speaker 1: I think when these holiday wokes come up, it's often

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00:20:53,036 --> 00:20:55,276
Speaker 1: a great signal to us that like, Hey, something I

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Speaker 1: might need to pay attention to down the line.

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Speaker 3: You make a great point here, which I think encompasses

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Speaker 3: all of the questions we've been talking about, which is like,

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Speaker 3: what needs to be handled over the holidays and what

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Speaker 3: needs to be handled over the eleven months that or

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00:21:08,516 --> 00:21:12,476
Speaker 3: ten months at aren't the holidays? Yes, yes, whereas like

436
00:21:13,036 --> 00:21:15,916
Speaker 3: wow I am a perfectionist, or wow I'm a workaholic,

437
00:21:16,036 --> 00:21:19,476
Speaker 3: or wow I feel lonely when I'm in groups, or

438
00:21:20,196 --> 00:21:23,636
Speaker 3: you know, I feel a pressure to have the perfect

439
00:21:23,756 --> 00:21:27,796
Speaker 3: gift or whatever it is. There's stuff to be worked

440
00:21:27,836 --> 00:21:31,236
Speaker 3: on throughout the year so that you're better prepared for

441
00:21:31,316 --> 00:21:33,636
Speaker 3: the holidays. And then there is stuff to kind of like,

442
00:21:33,636 --> 00:21:37,196
Speaker 3: like you say, quick fixes and hacks and little things.

443
00:21:36,916 --> 00:21:38,636
Speaker 2: You can do to make your holidays better.

444
00:21:38,676 --> 00:21:41,916
Speaker 3: But there may be you know, some a real tough

445
00:21:41,916 --> 00:21:46,116
Speaker 3: conversation you have with yourself with your therapist about Hey,

446
00:21:46,156 --> 00:21:47,876
Speaker 3: I want to I want to work on X, Y

447
00:21:47,916 --> 00:21:49,876
Speaker 3: and Z so that I can go into the holidays

448
00:21:50,676 --> 00:21:54,116
Speaker 3: next year with more joy and more freedom. You know.

449
00:21:54,236 --> 00:22:08,556
Speaker 2: Big picture, we.

450
00:22:08,596 --> 00:22:11,516
Speaker 1: Know, Guitar, my last set of holiday challenges that we

451
00:22:11,596 --> 00:22:13,276
Speaker 1: all need to do better about. And this is why

452
00:22:13,316 --> 00:22:15,956
Speaker 1: I'm especially excited to have you on the show because

453
00:22:15,996 --> 00:22:18,316
Speaker 1: our last holiday challenge is ways that we can create

454
00:22:18,836 --> 00:22:22,996
Speaker 1: more meaning enjoy, and I think you, of all the

455
00:22:23,036 --> 00:22:25,076
Speaker 1: people I know, have done I've had some of the

456
00:22:25,116 --> 00:22:27,316
Speaker 1: best insights into what we can do to deal with

457
00:22:27,356 --> 00:22:30,716
Speaker 1: this crisis of spiritual meaning that we have all the time.

458
00:22:31,076 --> 00:22:33,836
Speaker 1: But I think this comes out a lot during the

459
00:22:33,836 --> 00:22:36,756
Speaker 1: holiday season. I know soul Moon talks a lot about

460
00:22:36,796 --> 00:22:39,516
Speaker 1: what we can do to fix our spiritual crisis, any

461
00:22:39,676 --> 00:22:43,716
Speaker 1: soulful ideas, rituals, strategies we can use to feel a

462
00:22:43,716 --> 00:22:46,276
Speaker 1: little bit more spiritually connected during the holiday season.

463
00:22:47,116 --> 00:22:52,916
Speaker 3: A lot of people equate spirituality with religion for a

464
00:22:52,996 --> 00:22:56,636
Speaker 3: very good reason. There's a big overlap between spirituality and

465
00:22:56,716 --> 00:23:01,596
Speaker 3: religion in the Venn diagram. A lot of people view

466
00:23:01,636 --> 00:23:04,636
Speaker 3: it as kind of synonymous with faith, synonymous with let's

467
00:23:04,636 --> 00:23:07,156
Speaker 3: say church on Sunday or something like that. So the

468
00:23:07,196 --> 00:23:10,996
Speaker 3: first thing to do is kind of separate spirituality from

469
00:23:11,036 --> 00:23:13,676
Speaker 3: faith or religion or religious practice or the religion you

470
00:23:13,716 --> 00:23:15,636
Speaker 3: grew up in, because a lot of times what the

471
00:23:15,636 --> 00:23:18,916
Speaker 3: holidays can do is that can reignite a kind of

472
00:23:18,956 --> 00:23:22,996
Speaker 3: a religious trauma that maybe you underwent, perhaps you are

473
00:23:23,076 --> 00:23:26,436
Speaker 3: forced to go to church seven days a week, or

474
00:23:26,476 --> 00:23:28,516
Speaker 3: you were forced to be an aultar boy, or you

475
00:23:28,716 --> 00:23:32,356
Speaker 3: were pressured in certain ways that you find very uncomfortable

476
00:23:32,396 --> 00:23:35,156
Speaker 3: and triggering later on in life. And so a lot

477
00:23:35,196 --> 00:23:37,636
Speaker 3: of people are really resistant to anything having to do

478
00:23:37,636 --> 00:23:40,316
Speaker 3: with spirituality because of certain religious trauma.

479
00:23:40,476 --> 00:23:41,556
Speaker 2: So that's very real.

480
00:23:42,076 --> 00:23:48,756
Speaker 3: But I think putting the rituals of whatever faith denomination

481
00:23:49,036 --> 00:23:53,756
Speaker 3: you're involved in aside, what is spirituality, Well, it's a

482
00:23:53,836 --> 00:23:57,516
Speaker 3: recognition that we are something more than the material, that

483
00:23:57,596 --> 00:24:03,276
Speaker 3: whether whatever you want to call it, soul, heart, spirit essence,

484
00:24:04,316 --> 00:24:07,836
Speaker 3: life force, that there's something in us about us, in

485
00:24:07,876 --> 00:24:12,396
Speaker 3: our consciousness that is more than just you know, an

486
00:24:12,436 --> 00:24:14,636
Speaker 3: animal with a big brain in a meat suit. At

487
00:24:14,716 --> 00:24:17,556
Speaker 3: least that's how I view it, and people who walk

488
00:24:17,596 --> 00:24:20,996
Speaker 3: a spiritual path like to view it. So there's certain

489
00:24:21,076 --> 00:24:24,876
Speaker 3: things that go hand in hand with this concept that

490
00:24:24,916 --> 00:24:27,956
Speaker 3: we are spiritual beings having a human experience for eighty

491
00:24:28,076 --> 00:24:31,236
Speaker 3: ninety years on the planet, and it's connecting with love,

492
00:24:32,116 --> 00:24:36,756
Speaker 3: it's seeking greater humility, it's service to others, it's increasing

493
00:24:36,796 --> 00:24:42,716
Speaker 3: our compassion to see kind of universal divine qualities in people.

494
00:24:43,196 --> 00:24:47,276
Speaker 3: So all of these kind of spiritual ideas can be

495
00:24:47,396 --> 00:24:54,596
Speaker 3: brought out at family gatherings over the holidays and help

496
00:24:54,636 --> 00:24:58,636
Speaker 3: give our lives meaning and most importantly, just help increase connection,

497
00:24:58,756 --> 00:25:01,476
Speaker 3: because we all know that it's through connection that we

498
00:25:01,556 --> 00:25:07,996
Speaker 3: find the greatest joy and happiness. So these tools compassion, service, humility,

499
00:25:08,876 --> 00:25:11,676
Speaker 3: love of can give our lives meaning and can also

500
00:25:11,756 --> 00:25:13,476
Speaker 3: give us joy and happiness.

501
00:25:13,716 --> 00:25:15,476
Speaker 1: And I think there's so much room to bring those

502
00:25:15,516 --> 00:25:18,596
Speaker 1: in more during the holiday season, even for maybe some

503
00:25:18,676 --> 00:25:20,596
Speaker 1: of the not so great parts of the holiday season.

504
00:25:20,636 --> 00:25:22,556
Speaker 1: You know, we talked a little bit about grief, thinking

505
00:25:22,556 --> 00:25:25,036
Speaker 1: about loved ones that have passed and so on. I

506
00:25:25,036 --> 00:25:28,676
Speaker 1: think these are moments for developing little rituals where you

507
00:25:28,716 --> 00:25:30,716
Speaker 1: can connect with them during these tough times in the

508
00:25:30,716 --> 00:25:33,356
Speaker 1: holiday season. The holidays are all about nostalgia, where you

509
00:25:33,356 --> 00:25:36,116
Speaker 1: think back to your past and have these moments of like, man,

510
00:25:36,156 --> 00:25:38,916
Speaker 1: it's been ten years since we've been having Nana's lasagna,

511
00:25:38,956 --> 00:25:40,676
Speaker 1: and that can kind of give you a sense of

512
00:25:40,716 --> 00:25:43,356
Speaker 1: awe about the time passing and so on. So it's

513
00:25:43,396 --> 00:25:46,516
Speaker 1: like these rituals are open for us in the holiday season,

514
00:25:46,596 --> 00:25:49,796
Speaker 1: not just going to some you know, like religious service,

515
00:25:50,116 --> 00:25:53,556
Speaker 1: but really developing your own tiny moments. And this is

516
00:25:53,556 --> 00:25:55,116
Speaker 1: something I know you've talked about a lot in soul

517
00:25:55,156 --> 00:25:57,476
Speaker 1: Boom too, that it's often not like the big things,

518
00:25:57,876 --> 00:26:00,796
Speaker 1: it's like the tiny moments of wonder and connection that

519
00:26:00,836 --> 00:26:03,876
Speaker 1: seem to matter a lot. Any recommendations for noticing and

520
00:26:03,956 --> 00:26:07,636
Speaker 1: finding the tiny things that matter during the holidays.

521
00:26:07,396 --> 00:26:11,196
Speaker 2: Well, you talk about a lot. Is gratitude.

522
00:26:11,756 --> 00:26:14,196
Speaker 1: Love gratitude, Love me some gratitude.

523
00:26:14,316 --> 00:26:15,436
Speaker 2: It's a superpower.

524
00:26:16,196 --> 00:26:21,116
Speaker 3: So holiday gatherings can when you feel overwhelmed, like oh,

525
00:26:21,156 --> 00:26:24,476
Speaker 3: Aunt Connie's wearing that perfume again, and Uncle Ronnie won't

526
00:26:24,516 --> 00:26:28,116
Speaker 3: shut up, and Aunt Nana's chewing with her mouth open

527
00:26:28,276 --> 00:26:32,236
Speaker 3: and so and so as being passive aggressive like help

528
00:26:32,396 --> 00:26:33,996
Speaker 3: shift your mindset to one.

529
00:26:33,876 --> 00:26:36,596
Speaker 2: Of gratitude, like what are you grateful for?

530
00:26:36,956 --> 00:26:40,476
Speaker 3: So everyone's healthy, that we all get to be together,

531
00:26:40,716 --> 00:26:44,156
Speaker 3: that there's great kindness here, That I'm grateful for the

532
00:26:44,236 --> 00:26:48,996
Speaker 3: childhood that you know, my parents help give me. And

533
00:26:49,716 --> 00:26:51,796
Speaker 3: we can do that internally. You can do that with

534
00:26:51,836 --> 00:26:55,836
Speaker 3: a list. It's really it's also, as you know, more

535
00:26:55,836 --> 00:26:58,916
Speaker 3: helpful to share that gratitude with someone. Yes, could do

536
00:26:58,956 --> 00:27:01,356
Speaker 3: it by text, but it's even better over the phone

537
00:27:01,396 --> 00:27:04,356
Speaker 3: or in person. To share a gratitude takes it to

538
00:27:04,396 --> 00:27:07,636
Speaker 3: the next level. And maybe this is something to bring

539
00:27:07,836 --> 00:27:12,116
Speaker 3: into instead of you talked about spiritual practices, little things

540
00:27:12,516 --> 00:27:15,676
Speaker 3: like instead of grace or in addition to grace, go

541
00:27:15,716 --> 00:27:18,116
Speaker 3: around the table and one thing you're grateful for. It's

542
00:27:18,116 --> 00:27:22,516
Speaker 3: some easy icebreaker. It connects people, it opens their hearts.

543
00:27:22,556 --> 00:27:27,756
Speaker 3: It shifts things away from politics and division in less

544
00:27:27,796 --> 00:27:28,756
Speaker 3: than and stress.

545
00:27:30,116 --> 00:27:32,356
Speaker 2: There's so many different ways to harness the power of

546
00:27:32,396 --> 00:27:35,756
Speaker 2: gratitude for these kind of events.

547
00:27:36,076 --> 00:27:38,596
Speaker 1: Yeah, and another thing we know about gratitude is that

548
00:27:38,636 --> 00:27:40,116
Speaker 1: it can be a virtuous cycle.

549
00:27:40,396 --> 00:27:40,596
Speaker 2: Right.

550
00:27:40,876 --> 00:27:43,196
Speaker 1: You know, you say one thing you're grateful for about

551
00:27:43,196 --> 00:27:45,476
Speaker 1: your aunt at the dinner table. You know, I always

552
00:27:45,516 --> 00:27:47,996
Speaker 1: love your cookies. You know, it makes me grateful every

553
00:27:48,076 --> 00:27:52,356
Speaker 1: year when they come. But then that boosts her ability

554
00:27:52,396 --> 00:27:54,196
Speaker 1: to notice the good stuff in life because kind of

555
00:27:54,196 --> 00:27:57,156
Speaker 1: shifts her negativity bias ever so slightly towards the positive.

556
00:27:57,196 --> 00:27:59,396
Speaker 1: Then she sees it better. And so you can develop

557
00:27:59,436 --> 00:28:02,236
Speaker 1: these spirals during your holiday get together where if you

558
00:28:02,316 --> 00:28:05,436
Speaker 1: seed some gratitude early on, it makes it easier for

559
00:28:05,516 --> 00:28:09,396
Speaker 1: other people to find gratitude and joy later. Thing I

560
00:28:09,436 --> 00:28:11,756
Speaker 1: wanted to end with, which in theory, should be part

561
00:28:11,756 --> 00:28:14,596
Speaker 1: of the holiday season, is our sense of awe and wonder.

562
00:28:15,316 --> 00:28:17,276
Speaker 1: So often during the holiday season. I think we want

563
00:28:17,316 --> 00:28:19,956
Speaker 1: to get certain positive emotions. We want to eat delicious

564
00:28:19,956 --> 00:28:21,756
Speaker 1: stuff and feel good that way, or we want to

565
00:28:21,756 --> 00:28:24,556
Speaker 1: get a good gift or have surprise. And I think

566
00:28:24,756 --> 00:28:27,156
Speaker 1: one positive emotion that's really available to us that we

567
00:28:27,236 --> 00:28:30,716
Speaker 1: forget is the power of wonder during the season. Any

568
00:28:30,756 --> 00:28:33,196
Speaker 1: advice for how to get in a little bit more

569
00:28:33,236 --> 00:28:34,676
Speaker 1: wonder during the holidays.

570
00:28:34,956 --> 00:28:36,156
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just got to meet.

571
00:28:37,476 --> 00:28:38,156
Speaker 1: Daker Keltner.

572
00:28:38,316 --> 00:28:43,476
Speaker 3: Daker Keltner who wrote the wonderful book called Awe and

573
00:28:44,356 --> 00:28:48,676
Speaker 3: the number of health benefits and psychological benefits to feeling

574
00:28:48,836 --> 00:28:55,236
Speaker 3: awe and wonder our legion and it usually and can

575
00:28:55,556 --> 00:28:58,716
Speaker 3: start in nature, and it can again be another precious

576
00:28:58,756 --> 00:29:01,396
Speaker 3: point of unity between people who are feeling like politically

577
00:29:01,396 --> 00:29:04,836
Speaker 3: divided or overwhelmed or what have you. You know, noticing

578
00:29:04,836 --> 00:29:08,956
Speaker 3: a hummingbird or a tree or you know, or growth,

579
00:29:09,196 --> 00:29:12,996
Speaker 3: the moon or the stars. It's a powerful emotion and

580
00:29:13,036 --> 00:29:18,396
Speaker 3: it actually increases your health. And just like gratitude, And

581
00:29:18,436 --> 00:29:21,316
Speaker 3: by the way, gratitude is something you can just express.

582
00:29:22,516 --> 00:29:24,796
Speaker 2: You can have a secret agenda to express gratitude.

583
00:29:24,836 --> 00:29:28,316
Speaker 3: You can be like, hey, Aunt Connie, I'm grateful every

584
00:29:28,396 --> 00:29:30,436
Speaker 3: year you make your brownies and you bring them and

585
00:29:30,476 --> 00:29:31,356
Speaker 3: they're just so delicious.

586
00:29:31,396 --> 00:29:33,636
Speaker 2: I'm really grateful for you bring in your brownies each year.

587
00:29:33,836 --> 00:29:36,676
Speaker 3: It could just be that simple can change a whole

588
00:29:36,756 --> 00:29:41,476
Speaker 3: someone's whole day. And awe and wonder go hand in

589
00:29:41,516 --> 00:29:46,356
Speaker 3: hand with curiosity and expressing those can have the same effect.

590
00:29:46,676 --> 00:29:48,356
Speaker 1: I love your idea to get a little bit more

591
00:29:48,436 --> 00:29:50,356
Speaker 1: nature in I feel like I do this a little

592
00:29:50,356 --> 00:29:53,076
Speaker 1: bit when I'm off in the Midwest for the holidays.

593
00:29:53,156 --> 00:29:55,916
Speaker 1: Just take a little walk outside and look at the stars.

594
00:29:55,956 --> 00:29:57,676
Speaker 1: Often very cold, so you know, bring your hat and

595
00:29:57,676 --> 00:29:59,916
Speaker 1: your mittens and all the things. But just like these

596
00:29:59,996 --> 00:30:03,396
Speaker 1: tiny moments of experiencing nature, even in the midst of

597
00:30:03,716 --> 00:30:06,556
Speaker 1: a busy, busy day, it can really slow you down

598
00:30:06,716 --> 00:30:09,516
Speaker 1: and give you that sense of awe and wonder. Ray,

599
00:30:09,556 --> 00:30:11,796
Speaker 1: and thank you so much for wondering about the holidays

600
00:30:11,796 --> 00:30:13,636
Speaker 1: with me. I don't know if we've solved everybody's holiday

601
00:30:13,636 --> 00:30:15,356
Speaker 1: it woes, but I think everybody's going to go.

602
00:30:15,636 --> 00:30:16,196
Speaker 2: I think we did.

603
00:30:16,236 --> 00:30:19,476
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think we solved everybody's holidays woes.

604
00:30:19,956 --> 00:30:23,196
Speaker 1: A happier holiday to all and to all good night?

605
00:30:23,356 --> 00:30:23,876
Speaker 1: Is that the same?

606
00:30:24,036 --> 00:30:26,756
Speaker 3: I forget something like that and to all a good

607
00:30:26,796 --> 00:30:31,076
Speaker 3: podcast Doctor Lori Santos and the Happiness Team. It's such

608
00:30:31,116 --> 00:30:33,876
Speaker 3: a pleasure to see you again and speak with you,

609
00:30:33,956 --> 00:30:38,676
Speaker 3: and what a wonderful service you're providing some holiday inspiration

610
00:30:38,996 --> 00:30:41,596
Speaker 3: and guidance at one of the most stressful times.

611
00:30:41,356 --> 00:30:41,796
Speaker 2: Of the year.

612
00:30:42,716 --> 00:30:45,236
Speaker 1: I hold my conversation with Rain Wilson shared at least

613
00:30:45,236 --> 00:30:47,196
Speaker 1: one piece of advice that will help you have a

614
00:30:47,236 --> 00:30:50,436
Speaker 1: happier and more RESTful holiday season. That's all from the

615
00:30:50,436 --> 00:30:53,516
Speaker 1: Happiness Lab for twenty twenty five. But not to worry,

616
00:30:53,556 --> 00:30:56,436
Speaker 1: because twenty twenty six is just around the corner and

617
00:30:56,516 --> 00:30:58,716
Speaker 1: we'll have some advice for making your new year as

618
00:30:58,756 --> 00:31:02,276
Speaker 1: happy as possible. If you've been feeling stuck lately, you're

619
00:31:02,316 --> 00:31:04,996
Speaker 1: in luck because this January will be back with a

620
00:31:04,996 --> 00:31:08,796
Speaker 1: whole series on ideas for getting unstuck and moving forward

621
00:31:08,836 --> 00:31:12,196
Speaker 1: into twenty twenty six. That's all next year on the

622
00:31:12,196 --> 00:31:15,716
Speaker 1: Happiness Lab with me, Doctor Laurie Santos,