WEBVTT - Find a Mentor 0:00:03.080 --> 0:00:05.360 Hey works for me. Listeners, A quick note before we 0:00:05.400 --> 0:00:08.080 start the show, we would love to hear from you. 0:00:08.560 --> 0:00:11.400 What work problems do you have? Have you tried any 0:00:11.400 --> 0:00:14.240 of our productivity hacks to fix them? Leave us a 0:00:14.280 --> 0:00:17.160 voicemail at two on two six month seven zero one 0:00:17.239 --> 0:00:26.120 six six and we might play it on the show. Hey, 0:00:26.200 --> 0:00:30.000 it's Becca. Recently I went to a podcasting conference and 0:00:30.600 --> 0:00:34.600 I had a question, do you have a mentor? Mentor? 0:00:34.920 --> 0:00:37.680 I've had a number of mentors that boss is probably 0:00:37.720 --> 0:00:40.199 the closest thing to my mentor, that I go to 0:00:40.320 --> 0:00:42.760 them for advice, like a couple of times a week. 0:00:42.840 --> 0:00:45.280 Can I use them more for life purposes than I 0:00:45.320 --> 0:00:49.080 do for audio purposes? Because I wish I had more 0:00:49.080 --> 0:00:51.559 of a life mentor. My advice would just be to like, 0:00:51.760 --> 0:00:54.160 only reach out to the people who like really get 0:00:54.200 --> 0:00:56.600 you excited, and do you think you could learn from 0:00:56.640 --> 0:01:01.080 someone who's doing something that you're in just did in So, 0:01:01.200 --> 0:01:06.320 I met my first mentor. I had gone to a 0:01:06.920 --> 0:01:11.600 radio conference. We just met and she scared me a lot. 0:01:11.680 --> 0:01:13.760 And she was also the first like women of color 0:01:13.800 --> 0:01:21.039 that I met in audio. So I contacted her, say, Hi, 0:01:21.080 --> 0:01:24.399 I am I don't know, is it it's just weird, 0:01:24.520 --> 0:01:27.039 but could you give a mentor? Her response was like 0:01:27.080 --> 0:01:29.040 she was overjoyed. It was like I was just waiting 0:01:29.040 --> 0:01:30.520 for you to ask me this whole weekend that he 0:01:30.560 --> 0:01:32.720 would be like, I would look at your mentor. I 0:01:32.720 --> 0:01:35.720 think she just felt flattered and I'm very lucky to 0:01:35.760 --> 0:01:39.200 have her as my mentor. Just asking around it seems 0:01:39.200 --> 0:01:43.080 like everybody has a mentor, everyone except for me. This 0:01:43.120 --> 0:01:57.120 week on Works for Me, I go mentor hunting. Welcome 0:01:57.160 --> 0:01:59.240 back to Works for Me, to show where we try 0:01:59.240 --> 0:02:02.000 out solutions to our productivity problems to see if they 0:02:02.000 --> 0:02:05.640 will work for you. I'm Francesca Leaf and I'm beca Greenfield. 0:02:06.320 --> 0:02:09.280 This week, it's Becca's turn to take something that's going 0:02:09.280 --> 0:02:12.920 wrong at work and attempt to fix it with an experiment. Becca, 0:02:13.160 --> 0:02:16.640 what is your issue of the week. Basically, I've gone 0:02:16.639 --> 0:02:20.280 through my whole career without much guidance. I have people 0:02:20.320 --> 0:02:22.320 I can talk to when big things come up, like 0:02:22.440 --> 0:02:26.440 job changes, but I don't have a dedicated person like 0:02:26.480 --> 0:02:29.320 a mentor I can go to when any other work 0:02:29.400 --> 0:02:32.600 related issues or anxieties come up. Do you have someone 0:02:32.680 --> 0:02:34.480 like that in your life? Do you have a mentor? 0:02:35.280 --> 0:02:37.400 I don't I don't have anybody like that, and I 0:02:37.440 --> 0:02:40.280 totally understand the desire for one. I think the closest 0:02:40.280 --> 0:02:41.600 I've ever come to that was when I was in 0:02:41.639 --> 0:02:44.280 graduate school and I had professors who helped me get 0:02:44.280 --> 0:02:46.600 into the industry and help me get jobs. And I 0:02:46.680 --> 0:02:48.400 kept in touch with some of them for a little 0:02:48.440 --> 0:02:52.000 while after grad school, but those relationships have fallen off. 0:02:52.000 --> 0:02:55.160 In fact, I saw somebody recently at an event who 0:02:55.200 --> 0:02:57.760 I at one time I would have considered her mentor, 0:02:57.760 --> 0:03:01.919 and I'm pretty sure she didn't remember who I was. Yeah. 0:03:01.960 --> 0:03:05.120 I feel like that's one problem, is that these relationships 0:03:05.120 --> 0:03:08.440 don't really stick where we feel like we're supposed to 0:03:08.440 --> 0:03:12.240 have them, but there's not really a designated forum. I mean, 0:03:12.280 --> 0:03:16.560 there are workplaces that do give people mentors, and I've 0:03:16.600 --> 0:03:18.720 talked to some people and they say, usually those aren't 0:03:18.720 --> 0:03:20.679 the people who end up being your mentors. It just 0:03:20.720 --> 0:03:23.240 seems like this elusive, magical thing we're supposed to have 0:03:24.040 --> 0:03:26.720 and I don't really know how to find it. Yeah. 0:03:26.840 --> 0:03:29.760 You hear a lot about about the value of mentor, 0:03:29.840 --> 0:03:33.000 like in the kind of productivity circles that we run 0:03:33.000 --> 0:03:36.880 in and the kind of productivity articles that we read. Um, 0:03:36.920 --> 0:03:38.880 you know that stuff pops up all the time about 0:03:38.880 --> 0:03:42.040 the importance of a mentor and how there are mentors 0:03:42.040 --> 0:03:44.720 and there are sponsors, a sponsors like a mentor like 0:03:45.480 --> 0:03:48.840 plus somebody who who's not who won't just give you advice, 0:03:48.880 --> 0:03:52.240 but they'll advocate for you at work. So you hear 0:03:52.440 --> 0:03:55.480 constantly about the value of a mentor, you don't necessarily 0:03:55.560 --> 0:03:58.040 hear about like how to get one. Yeah, and that's 0:03:58.520 --> 0:04:02.560 that's what I want to do. So your problem then, 0:04:02.880 --> 0:04:04.440 really is that you don't have a mentor and you 0:04:04.480 --> 0:04:08.320 want one. What is your plan to find one? Yeah, 0:04:08.360 --> 0:04:11.040 So we don't get a training manual for this. So 0:04:11.120 --> 0:04:14.320 I went out and found someone who's very good at 0:04:14.360 --> 0:04:19.440 finding mentors. I have two core traditional mentors that I've 0:04:19.520 --> 0:04:24.200 had for over twenty years, and then as I've taken 0:04:24.240 --> 0:04:29.360 on different roles personally and professionally, I've added mentors. So 0:04:29.440 --> 0:04:32.960 maybe I have like at any given time, maybe five 0:04:33.040 --> 0:04:37.080 to seven that I'm actively talking with and connecting with. 0:04:37.760 --> 0:04:41.600 This is Ellen Nsher. She's a professor at Loyola Marymount 0:04:41.720 --> 0:04:44.760 University in Los Angeles, and she's the co author of 0:04:44.760 --> 0:04:48.960 a book called Power Mentoring. She has spent decades researching 0:04:48.960 --> 0:04:52.120 mentors and is a pro at finding them and keeping them. 0:04:52.320 --> 0:04:55.240 Ellen is what I would call a mentor enthusiast, and 0:04:55.279 --> 0:04:58.840 the reason she's so enthusiastic is because decades of research 0:04:58.880 --> 0:05:02.440 has found the benefit of having one. There's a whole 0:05:02.440 --> 0:05:05.600 body of research that we've been doing for thirty years 0:05:06.279 --> 0:05:11.440 that shows definitively that people who have mentors actually make 0:05:11.520 --> 0:05:17.960 more money, get promoted more rapidly, are more satisfied and 0:05:18.160 --> 0:05:22.240 happier with their jobs. Life and work is hard enough, 0:05:22.520 --> 0:05:26.600 and you don't always have to do everything the hard way. 0:05:26.800 --> 0:05:30.599 You can learn from other people's experiences. I asked Ellen 0:05:30.680 --> 0:05:33.279 how I could find a mentor, and she said, it's 0:05:33.279 --> 0:05:39.880 as easy as following the four urs. Oh yeah, reading, writing, arithmetic, 0:05:40.200 --> 0:05:43.800 different different ours. What are the four ours? So the 0:05:43.839 --> 0:05:48.160 first R is to reflect. Surprisingly, the whole how to 0:05:48.240 --> 0:05:51.839 find a mentor starts with yourself. So you need to 0:05:51.880 --> 0:05:55.920 take a moment and think about who you are and 0:05:56.240 --> 0:06:00.359 what you want. After reflecting, step number two is research. 0:06:00.960 --> 0:06:03.239 Once you figured out what you want out of a mentor, 0:06:03.360 --> 0:06:06.320 Ellen says, research the go to people in your industry 0:06:06.360 --> 0:06:10.480 and find the people that they mentor. She suggests an 0:06:10.520 --> 0:06:13.520 all out internet deep dive, find as much information on 0:06:13.560 --> 0:06:18.680 potential mentors as possible. Then the third are is to 0:06:18.800 --> 0:06:21.920 reach out. At this point, you've narrowed down a list 0:06:21.960 --> 0:06:24.640 of people who you want as mentors. Now you have 0:06:24.680 --> 0:06:27.320 to email them or call them and ask if they 0:06:27.320 --> 0:06:30.520 will talk to you or meet with you. And the 0:06:30.640 --> 0:06:35.080 last R is to reflect again. This happens after you've 0:06:35.120 --> 0:06:37.880 already met up with them, and it's important for making 0:06:37.880 --> 0:06:43.000 the relationships stick past the initial meeting. Reflect again and 0:06:43.080 --> 0:06:46.039 ask yourself what is it I can do from my 0:06:46.120 --> 0:06:49.799 mentor and how can I show appreciation? Because I think 0:06:49.839 --> 0:06:53.440 a lot of times the reason that mentoring relationships don't 0:06:53.480 --> 0:06:56.960 get off the ground or have an early fail is 0:06:57.040 --> 0:07:03.160 because the protege go in has a meeting, sucks up 0:07:03.200 --> 0:07:06.800 some time, the mentor makes a bunch of recommendations, and 0:07:06.800 --> 0:07:12.240 then the protege gets busy doesn't follow up. So to summarize, 0:07:12.680 --> 0:07:17.520 the four ours, not reading, writing, arithmetic are reflect, research, 0:07:18.000 --> 0:07:21.280 reach out, and reflect again. So reflect is in there 0:07:21.320 --> 0:07:23.600 twice feels a little bit like a cheap, But now 0:07:23.640 --> 0:07:25.880 I mean I feel like that is there's nothing in 0:07:25.920 --> 0:07:29.720 there that is so surprising, But I actually think it's 0:07:29.840 --> 0:07:32.000 nice to have a roadmap, like just that there's somebody 0:07:32.000 --> 0:07:34.120 out there who spent the time to think about what 0:07:34.200 --> 0:07:36.239 the plan is for going out and finding a mentor, because, 0:07:36.560 --> 0:07:41.080 like we said, you don't. It's just not something we're taught. 0:07:41.080 --> 0:07:42.960 We're taught about the value of a mentor, but not 0:07:43.000 --> 0:07:44.400 how to get one. So it's nice that she's giving 0:07:44.440 --> 0:07:48.000 you steps. Yeah, I was. It's encouraging that there are 0:07:48.040 --> 0:07:51.160 steps one can take instead of just waiting around to 0:07:51.240 --> 0:08:02.360 be a perfect person. So I'm assuming that doing the 0:08:02.400 --> 0:08:04.400 four hours is going to be your experiment this week. 0:08:04.880 --> 0:08:07.000 That's correct. I'm going to do the four ours and 0:08:07.040 --> 0:08:10.080 see if I can land me a mentor. How will 0:08:10.120 --> 0:08:12.360 you know if you succeeded at fighting a mentor? One 0:08:12.400 --> 0:08:16.560 of them are challenging aspects about a mentor relationship is 0:08:16.760 --> 0:08:21.000 making it stick past that first meeting. But Ellen assured 0:08:21.040 --> 0:08:23.600 me that within a month I should be able to 0:08:23.840 --> 0:08:27.200 meet up with at least one mentor potential and if 0:08:27.200 --> 0:08:30.920 it goes well, set up another meeting with them. Okay, 0:08:30.960 --> 0:08:32.880 So if you can get a meeting and then get 0:08:32.880 --> 0:08:35.640 a follow up meeting, that's your definition of six sens 0:08:35.960 --> 0:08:47.920 that's right. Okay, So I need to reflect this is 0:08:48.000 --> 0:08:52.319 step one of mentoring, I need to reflect on who 0:08:52.360 --> 0:08:57.040 I am, what I offer to someone else, my growing edges. 0:08:58.000 --> 0:09:00.800 So here I was reflecting in my apart mint. I 0:09:00.880 --> 0:09:03.440 enlisted my boyfriend Danny, so I wasn't just talking to 0:09:03.520 --> 0:09:07.360 myself about myself all alone. Ellen said a good way 0:09:07.400 --> 0:09:09.839 to figure out what you want and a mentor is 0:09:09.880 --> 0:09:14.760 to identify your strengths and what she calls a growing edge, 0:09:15.000 --> 0:09:17.880 which is a euphemism for something you're not very good 0:09:17.920 --> 0:09:21.240 at but you want to get better at. I'm becca, 0:09:22.040 --> 0:09:25.880 I'm a journalist. Damn it. My editor tells me my 0:09:25.960 --> 0:09:29.000 strengths are I'm fast and I'm smart. I agree with that. 0:09:29.960 --> 0:09:33.080 My growing areas I would like to be be better at, 0:09:33.120 --> 0:09:37.120 like thinking of bigger story ideas and be better at 0:09:37.200 --> 0:09:41.000 coming up with, you know, ideas for things I want 0:09:41.040 --> 0:09:44.440 to pursue. I feel like I really I get in 0:09:44.520 --> 0:09:49.120 my head about that. I found this part challenging. It 0:09:49.200 --> 0:09:51.880 sounds like it's hard to talk about yourself, and it's 0:09:52.040 --> 0:09:54.720 especially hard to say nice things about yourself. Or I 0:09:54.800 --> 0:09:57.120 find it hard, and I think many people can relate 0:09:57.120 --> 0:10:00.400 to that. But after some reflection, I had just sided 0:10:00.559 --> 0:10:02.960 I wanted a mentor who could push me on my 0:10:03.000 --> 0:10:06.760 story ideas. Ellen also said that during this step, you're 0:10:06.760 --> 0:10:09.160 supposed to think of something that you can offer your 0:10:09.240 --> 0:10:15.080 mentor so that the relationship isn't completely parasitic. I'm happy 0:10:15.120 --> 0:10:18.800 to read things or give opinion on things. I'm also 0:10:18.840 --> 0:10:20.880 really good at writing emails, so if they need like 0:10:20.920 --> 0:10:24.120 an email editor, I feel like you can attest to that. Yeah, 0:10:24.400 --> 0:10:29.400 they're pretty good. I mean, yes, I I am also 0:10:29.679 --> 0:10:34.520 someone who thinks they are a good email comes out No, 0:10:34.640 --> 0:10:37.760 I just don't want to be recorded as saying someone 0:10:37.800 --> 0:10:40.480 who like constantly need to help with their emails because 0:10:41.480 --> 0:10:46.760 constantly struggle your emails. I am always helping my sad, 0:10:47.120 --> 0:10:52.600 sad poor boyfriend craft emails. So what do you think 0:10:52.679 --> 0:10:54.320 is so great about your emails? That's what I want 0:10:54.360 --> 0:10:57.480 to know. I mean, your emails are your emails are great. 0:10:57.520 --> 0:10:59.640 But I'm just wondering why you list this as a skill, 0:11:00.160 --> 0:11:02.720 because I think people come to me and asked me 0:11:02.760 --> 0:11:05.120 to edit their emails often, and I enjoy it, and 0:11:05.160 --> 0:11:06.720 I think I do a good job, and I think 0:11:06.720 --> 0:11:11.040 that's a skill that I can offer a potential mentor. Okay, 0:11:11.600 --> 0:11:15.760 after my reflecting period, I had arrived at step two research. 0:11:16.480 --> 0:11:19.199 I had identified what I wanted in a mentor somebody 0:11:19.200 --> 0:11:21.960 to push me on my story ideas. It was time 0:11:22.000 --> 0:11:24.240 to find the right person to help me with this 0:11:24.440 --> 0:11:28.560 growing edge. Ellen suggested thinking of some superstars in my 0:11:28.640 --> 0:11:32.480 field and using LinkedIn to find people related to them. 0:11:32.559 --> 0:11:38.080 I sat down with Toefort, our producer, and we researched together. Well, 0:11:38.080 --> 0:11:40.840 so one idea that I think I'm gonna do is 0:11:40.880 --> 0:11:45.960 Susan Arlene, which is someone who's like such a reach 0:11:46.000 --> 0:11:48.120 I wouldn't even think to reach out to her, but like, 0:11:48.280 --> 0:11:52.040 she's cool and she has a podcast, cry Babies. I 0:11:52.040 --> 0:11:57.880 don't even know if Susan relians on LinkedIn, so she 0:11:58.160 --> 0:12:02.200 is on LinkedIn that she clearly does not use this website. 0:12:02.280 --> 0:12:05.160 I mean it is not filled out at all. It 0:12:05.240 --> 0:12:10.120 says experience writer and there is a blank photo that's 0:12:10.120 --> 0:12:13.240 supposed to be filled in, and it just says the 0:12:13.320 --> 0:12:15.400 last forty years she's been doing that and that's the 0:12:15.440 --> 0:12:18.520 whole thing. She's been very consistent. It doesn't even say 0:12:18.520 --> 0:12:24.120 what publications she's a dead end. So it was not 0:12:24.240 --> 0:12:27.439 just Susan Orlean. A lot of people in our industry 0:12:27.480 --> 0:12:31.079 are not big users of LinkedIn and it became almost 0:12:31.120 --> 0:12:33.320 immediately clear that that was not going to be a 0:12:33.320 --> 0:12:36.000 fruitful path for me. So I decided to do my 0:12:36.080 --> 0:12:39.720 own version of internet research, and Tofer suggested that we 0:12:39.760 --> 0:12:41.960 look for people who have been interviewed on the long 0:12:42.040 --> 0:12:45.400 Form podcast for inspiration. Are you familiar with that show? 0:12:45.559 --> 0:12:48.520 I am. I'm a subscriber actually, for those who don't know, 0:12:48.679 --> 0:12:51.160 long Form is a podcast where each week the hosts 0:12:51.200 --> 0:12:55.440 interview writers, editors, and journalists about their careers. So I 0:12:55.520 --> 0:12:57.600 went through the roster of guests over the years to 0:12:57.640 --> 0:13:01.320 try to find some potential candidates. After twenty minutes, Tob 0:13:01.440 --> 0:13:04.440 and I had a solid list of ten people. It 0:13:04.520 --> 0:13:07.240 was a nice representation of people who do the different 0:13:07.240 --> 0:13:12.040 things that I do from my job. It was writers, reporters, podcasters. 0:13:12.559 --> 0:13:15.720 I felt good about it, and once I had my names, 0:13:15.800 --> 0:13:20.360 it was time for the third are reach out, which 0:13:20.679 --> 0:13:24.160 is where things got scary. We'll see how that went 0:13:24.200 --> 0:13:50.240 for me. After the right I had arrived at step three, 0:13:50.800 --> 0:13:54.800 which is reach out. This, I think is the most 0:13:54.920 --> 0:13:58.760 intimidating step. You have to email complete strangers, tell them 0:13:58.760 --> 0:14:01.440 how much you like them, and then asked them for 0:14:01.559 --> 0:14:04.560 their time. It took me a while to build up 0:14:04.559 --> 0:14:07.600 to this step. About a week after I did my research, 0:14:07.640 --> 0:14:11.360 I finally got the courage to contact my potential future mentors. 0:14:11.920 --> 0:14:13.880 I sat down with my list of ten names and 0:14:13.960 --> 0:14:18.320 their contact information, which was readily available online, and I 0:14:18.320 --> 0:14:21.200 started writing an email to the first potential mentor on 0:14:21.280 --> 0:14:26.920 my list, Susan or Lean. Hi, Susan, my name is 0:14:26.960 --> 0:14:30.920 Becka Greenfield. I'm reporter, writer, podcaster. I currently work at 0:14:30.920 --> 0:14:34.680 Bloomberg and have worked at various other outlets since I 0:14:34.680 --> 0:14:38.400 started working eight years ago. I guess I say work 0:14:38.480 --> 0:14:42.840 a lot um. It took me at least four drafts 0:14:42.880 --> 0:14:47.320 to write what I considered a decent email, and as 0:14:47.360 --> 0:14:49.560 we know, you have very high email standards, so that 0:14:49.880 --> 0:14:51.560 must have been an amazing email by the time you 0:14:51.640 --> 0:14:54.680 were done with it. Yes, I was using my special skill. 0:14:55.680 --> 0:14:58.440 I wanted to personalize it to Susan, but I also 0:14:58.480 --> 0:15:01.840 didn't want to sound too neat. It's a very delicate balance. 0:15:02.280 --> 0:15:05.240 And then I had to do the hardest part, which 0:15:05.560 --> 0:15:08.800 was sending. Ellen said a lot of people get stressed 0:15:08.800 --> 0:15:12.680 about this step, understandably, so she has a trick for 0:15:12.760 --> 0:15:16.720 getting over it. I really recommend that people come up 0:15:16.840 --> 0:15:20.320 with some kind of courage ritual. So it might be 0:15:20.360 --> 0:15:23.160 a poem, it might be a song, it might be 0:15:23.200 --> 0:15:25.880 a quote. So a lot of people run into this trouble, 0:15:25.960 --> 0:15:28.080 like reaching out to strangers as a problem, But it 0:15:28.120 --> 0:15:31.200 never occurred to me to like have a little thing 0:15:31.200 --> 0:15:35.040 that you always fall back on that makes you feel braver. Yeah, 0:15:35.080 --> 0:15:38.840 she sings a song. She sings the song, so I 0:15:38.960 --> 0:15:41.960 like amps you up. So yeah, she she sings a song, 0:15:42.200 --> 0:15:45.520 and she suggests that you just do something to make 0:15:45.600 --> 0:15:49.400 yourself feel confident in the moment. What did you decide 0:15:49.440 --> 0:15:51.560 to do for your courage rid rule, I picked a 0:15:51.600 --> 0:15:55.440 song that always lifts my spirits. And also bonus is 0:15:55.480 --> 0:16:06.840 a metaphor for my current tap. I Ain't no mountain 0:16:06.920 --> 0:16:10.880 high enough by Marvin Gay and Tammy Terrell. Okay, so 0:16:10.920 --> 0:16:16.360 the metaphor, how is it a mountain email? The email 0:16:16.440 --> 0:16:20.840 is a tall mountain. That's right, my stress climates. There's 0:16:20.920 --> 0:16:23.840 lots of metaphors. The email itself, this moment is a 0:16:23.840 --> 0:16:26.440 mountain that it's not too high for me to climb over. 0:16:26.560 --> 0:16:28.600 I can do it, you can do it. Also finding 0:16:28.600 --> 0:16:31.880 a mentor, it's the scary amount and the song goes 0:16:31.920 --> 0:16:34.680 to keep me from getting to you. So that's the mentor. 0:16:34.720 --> 0:16:37.000 The mentors on the other side of the mountain. The 0:16:37.080 --> 0:16:39.640 emails not too tall for you to climb over and 0:16:39.720 --> 0:16:42.280 didn't get to your mentor. That's great, thank you perfect. 0:16:42.280 --> 0:16:55.080 I thought about it now, So after reading through my 0:16:55.160 --> 0:16:59.080 email one last time just in case, I was ready 0:16:59.120 --> 0:17:05.280 to send it, I'm pretty nervous to send it. But 0:17:06.880 --> 0:17:14.800 first email, here we go pressing send. He Okay, it's 0:17:14.840 --> 0:17:20.679 gotta scary. Onto the next one. I found it surprisingly 0:17:20.720 --> 0:17:23.600 exhausting to write and send that email. It took a 0:17:23.640 --> 0:17:25.919 lot of emotional energy, and then I had to do 0:17:25.960 --> 0:17:30.440 it in nine more times. Hi Eran Hayman Niche. Hi, Rebecca. 0:17:30.600 --> 0:17:32.840 My name is Becca green My name is Becca Greenfield. 0:17:32.840 --> 0:17:36.040 I'm a reporter. I'm on the race class and gender 0:17:36.040 --> 0:17:40.159 in the right place team here and I admire I 0:17:40.200 --> 0:17:43.760 feel crazy. I'm looking for some guidance on how to 0:17:43.760 --> 0:17:46.480 go as a writer, reporter and idea generator. So respectable, 0:17:47.960 --> 0:17:54.399 Marvin Gay, you inspire me submit. Sending the emails was 0:17:54.520 --> 0:17:57.360 so exhausting that I only ended up emailing eight out 0:17:57.359 --> 0:18:00.440 of the ten people on my list. I just stopped. 0:18:01.160 --> 0:18:04.159 Then it was out of my hands. I had to 0:18:04.200 --> 0:18:09.600 wait for responses, and then right there, right then, I 0:18:09.640 --> 0:18:16.520 got one and it was a rejection, a really nice rejection, 0:18:17.200 --> 0:18:22.359 but a rejection. So I waited even longer. I refreshed 0:18:22.400 --> 0:18:27.200 my inbox, waited more days, pasted. It felt like an eternity, 0:18:28.359 --> 0:18:33.920 and then finally people responded, and they were more rejections. 0:18:35.080 --> 0:18:38.720 People were very nice and sent me some incredibly thoughtful emails. 0:18:38.760 --> 0:18:41.320 Some of them had specific advice in them for me, 0:18:42.080 --> 0:18:45.680 but they were for legitimate reasons, too busy to meet up. 0:18:46.400 --> 0:18:48.440 I think if you're reaching out to people you admire, 0:18:48.520 --> 0:18:51.240 there is a very real possibility that they're going to 0:18:51.280 --> 0:18:54.160 be too busy putting time and energy into their own 0:18:54.160 --> 0:18:57.680 careers to meet up with you. I think that's true. 0:18:57.680 --> 0:18:59.640 But I think that you might be underestimating how big 0:18:59.640 --> 0:19:01.840 a deal is that people responded at all. Like I 0:19:01.880 --> 0:19:04.480 think that they could have just ignored your email altogether. 0:19:04.520 --> 0:19:06.600 After all, you were a stranger, and it sounds like 0:19:06.600 --> 0:19:10.359 some of them gave you real advice or thought through 0:19:10.359 --> 0:19:12.840 what you had written to them. So clearly the fact 0:19:12.840 --> 0:19:14.359 that you put a lot of thought into your email 0:19:14.400 --> 0:19:16.439 resulted in them putting some thought in their responses, And 0:19:16.480 --> 0:19:18.560 I think that's it's kind of a win, like you're 0:19:18.840 --> 0:19:21.040 on their radar. Now, all I'm hearing is that I 0:19:21.080 --> 0:19:24.840 sent a really good email. Yes correct, I know, iratulations 0:19:24.880 --> 0:19:29.840 on your amazing email. Thank you. I was genuinely delighted 0:19:29.880 --> 0:19:33.280 to hear from people and very touched. Yeah, but it 0:19:33.320 --> 0:19:35.480 didn't help me get closer to my goal. It didn't 0:19:35.520 --> 0:19:37.280 get you exactly what you wanted. But I think it's 0:19:37.280 --> 0:19:39.600 a nice lesson the next time you're scared of something 0:19:39.640 --> 0:19:43.440 like that, because I think the assumption is these people 0:19:43.440 --> 0:19:45.840 are going to be like, what the heck is this? 0:19:46.040 --> 0:19:49.600 Totally ignore it, And actually you can get a lot 0:19:49.680 --> 0:19:51.920 more out of people than you realize. People will give 0:19:51.960 --> 0:19:54.000 you more of their time than you might expect. Dare. 0:19:54.040 --> 0:20:00.040 I say, ain't no mountain high enough you, dare. So 0:20:00.080 --> 0:20:04.320 I had to keep waiting. The holidays came, they went, 0:20:05.280 --> 0:20:09.920 and then on January two, I got an email from 0:20:10.080 --> 0:20:15.280 Manus Samaradi. Manusha is an accomplished journalist. She used to 0:20:15.280 --> 0:20:18.280 host a popular radio show called Note to Self. Last 0:20:18.320 --> 0:20:20.840 year she left to start her own podcast company called 0:20:20.840 --> 0:20:24.760 Stable Genius Productions, where, among other things, she hosts their 0:20:24.800 --> 0:20:28.720 flagship show zig Zag. She was the perfect person to 0:20:28.720 --> 0:20:31.320 help me with my growing edge. She had to put 0:20:31.320 --> 0:20:34.160 out hundreds of episodes of her show, and she seemingly 0:20:34.240 --> 0:20:36.480 does not have a problem coming up with good ideas. 0:20:37.800 --> 0:20:40.520 I responded immediately and set up a meeting with her 0:20:40.560 --> 0:20:46.280 a week later. Hi. Hello. We met up in her 0:20:46.320 --> 0:20:50.240 coworking space on a chilly morning for coffee. I sat down, 0:20:50.400 --> 0:20:52.720 put my recorder between us, and right then and there 0:20:52.760 --> 0:20:55.520 she gave me my first tip of the morning, how 0:20:55.560 --> 0:20:58.720 to hold a microphone like a pro something. This is 0:20:58.720 --> 0:21:01.200 gonna just gonna bug me, but I really think you 0:21:01.200 --> 0:21:03.320 should talk like this. And then he hand it to you. 0:21:04.160 --> 0:21:07.199 One minute in and I had already learned something. Plus 0:21:07.240 --> 0:21:09.879 Minush had put me at ease. She made me feel 0:21:09.880 --> 0:21:13.440 okay asking her some of my other career questions. After 0:21:13.480 --> 0:21:15.520 talking for a few more minutes, I brought up my 0:21:15.560 --> 0:21:17.800 growing edge, and I asked her how I can get 0:21:17.800 --> 0:21:20.719 better at coming up with story ideas. You can't do 0:21:20.760 --> 0:21:24.200 this in a vacuum. Ideas are iterative, right, Like, it's 0:21:24.240 --> 0:21:27.040 not the chances of you coming up with something that's 0:21:27.080 --> 0:21:31.760 fully formed and totally baked an amazing are pretty darn slim, 0:21:31.800 --> 0:21:34.080 Like what is the IRA glasses? Like your ideas want 0:21:34.160 --> 0:21:38.440 to be bad. It's a team sport journalism. Yes, there 0:21:38.440 --> 0:21:41.200 are people who just like put out amazing things all 0:21:41.200 --> 0:21:43.560 on their own, but I don't think it's like being 0:21:44.040 --> 0:21:46.760 an artist to paint something and has a vision in 0:21:46.800 --> 0:21:49.520 their mind. I think I have ideas of where I 0:21:49.560 --> 0:21:52.600 want to go, but there never they're never what we 0:21:52.680 --> 0:21:55.560 end up doing. The news made me realize that I 0:21:55.600 --> 0:21:58.680 was maybe putting too much pressure on my own ideas, 0:21:58.680 --> 0:22:01.439 and that I should seek out other people to brainstorm with. 0:22:02.160 --> 0:22:04.960 We spent an hour talking about stuff like this and 0:22:05.160 --> 0:22:07.760 remembering what Ellen said. I tried not to just suck 0:22:07.840 --> 0:22:11.280 up her time, and I answered some of her questions. Sadly, 0:22:11.400 --> 0:22:14.520 she did not request my email writing services. Maybe you 0:22:14.560 --> 0:22:17.199 consider another email and she'll just be so wowed by 0:22:17.200 --> 0:22:22.159 the quality that she'll ask for more help. One can dream. Then, 0:22:22.200 --> 0:22:25.240 as we were wrapping up, I had yet another challenge. 0:22:26.280 --> 0:22:28.920 Ellen said after the first meeting, if things went well, 0:22:28.960 --> 0:22:31.119 I should try to get on my mentors calendar again 0:22:31.160 --> 0:22:33.320 in the next month or so to try and make 0:22:33.320 --> 0:22:37.040 the relationships stick. I asked manus when she thought it 0:22:37.080 --> 0:22:40.840 would be reasonable for us to meet up again. Look, 0:22:40.880 --> 0:22:43.960 I have two kids, I run my own business. I 0:22:44.000 --> 0:22:47.240 host multiple podcasts, I traveled, giving a lot of talks. 0:22:47.720 --> 0:22:49.800 Time is not is the one thing right now in 0:22:49.840 --> 0:22:55.040 my life I do not have, but I do believe 0:22:55.320 --> 0:22:59.680 in Like, like, this session was extremely productive and fruitful 0:22:59.800 --> 0:23:01.800 and wonderful, and if I don't see you for another 0:23:01.880 --> 0:23:04.680 six months to a year, I really feel like we'll 0:23:04.720 --> 0:23:06.399 just pick up right where we were because it was 0:23:07.400 --> 0:23:10.479 I hate this word speaking of words authentic, but like 0:23:10.520 --> 0:23:12.119 we didn't both, do you know what I mean? We 0:23:12.200 --> 0:23:14.800 just got to it, And like I have a lot 0:23:14.800 --> 0:23:18.200 of time for people who I feel like I can 0:23:18.240 --> 0:23:20.119 meet them right where we need to be without the 0:23:20.240 --> 0:23:23.879 lead up to get there. Minusia had already given me 0:23:24.040 --> 0:23:26.760 so much of her time to ask her to commit 0:23:26.840 --> 0:23:30.320 to another meeting in the next month or two felt selfish. 0:23:30.400 --> 0:23:32.560 She's busy, and I agree with her. We got a 0:23:32.560 --> 0:23:35.440 lot out of our session. I couldn't bring myself to 0:23:35.480 --> 0:23:39.000 ask for more, so I left without scheduling another meeting. 0:23:40.040 --> 0:23:43.119 I love how skillfully she kind of rejected you in 0:23:43.160 --> 0:23:46.239 a way, like when you asked her about meeting up. 0:23:46.480 --> 0:23:48.920 It sounds like you gently broached meeting up again without 0:23:48.920 --> 0:23:50.960 being direct about it, and then she just had this 0:23:51.000 --> 0:23:54.880 way of like making it a compliment to you that 0:23:54.920 --> 0:23:57.760 she wasn't gonna probably see you for six months to 0:23:57.840 --> 0:24:01.360 a year. I she's like, that's high quality mental material 0:24:01.480 --> 0:24:04.400 right there. Yeah, I didn't even think of it as 0:24:04.400 --> 0:24:06.720 a rejection. That's the first time I'm thinking of it 0:24:06.800 --> 0:24:09.760 as right. Sorry, Well you didn't give yourself the chance 0:24:09.800 --> 0:24:12.119