1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:02,320 Speaker 1: Hey, guys, thanks for listening to Breaking Points with Crystal 2 00:00:02,360 --> 00:00:04,240 Speaker 1: and Sager. We're going to be totally upfront with you. 3 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:07,200 Speaker 1: We took a big risk going independent to make this work. 4 00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:11,880 Speaker 1: We need your support to beat the corporate media CNN, Fox, MSNBC. 5 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:15,760 Speaker 1: They are ripping this country apart. They are making millions 6 00:00:15,760 --> 00:00:18,360 Speaker 1: of dollars doing it to help support our mission of 7 00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 1: making all of us hate each other, less hate the 8 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 1: corrupt ruling class more support the show. 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We have an amazing show for everybody today. 19 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:11,360 Speaker 1: What do we have, Crystal, Indeed we do. We've got 20 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:15,240 Speaker 1: some new insights into just how influential one Wall Street 21 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:18,400 Speaker 1: firm was in crafting those bailouts early in the pandemic. 22 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:23,200 Speaker 1: During the Trump administration, we also have some new comments 23 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:28,400 Speaker 1: from our friend Josh Gottheimer about salt tax, surprisingly getting 24 00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:31,600 Speaker 1: a little bit of pushback on CNBC. That's how you 25 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:34,080 Speaker 1: know that you've really lost the narrative wars when even 26 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:37,600 Speaker 1: CNBC is like, this tax cut is only for rich people. 27 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:39,760 Speaker 1: I don't know what you're talking about. We're going to 28 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:43,440 Speaker 1: honor the loss of a true American hero, Mike Gravel. 29 00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:45,720 Speaker 1: We've got Matt Stotler in the show to talk about 30 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:49,560 Speaker 1: a big blow to some of the antitrust movement, a 31 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 1: judge ruling against the States and the FTC in a 32 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:57,160 Speaker 1: case against Facebook, ledging that they are monopolists. But we 33 00:01:57,200 --> 00:02:01,680 Speaker 1: wanted to start with those strikes in Syria from President Biden. 34 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:03,920 Speaker 1: This is really important, and you know, we can't let 35 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:06,160 Speaker 1: these things just go unnoticed. So let's put this up 36 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:08,240 Speaker 1: there on the screen. Glenn Greenwald, of course, he wrote 37 00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:10,519 Speaker 1: a great piece on this. Biden's lawless bombing of Iraq 38 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:12,880 Speaker 1: and Syria only serves a weapons industry that which is 39 00:02:12,919 --> 00:02:15,919 Speaker 1: funding both parties. And I'm glad that Glenn is pointing 40 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 1: the financial incentive here, which is that picture there. Secretary 41 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:22,240 Speaker 1: of Defense Lloyd Austin, who himself was a member of 42 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:26,079 Speaker 1: the raytheon Board, and before that was head of Centcom 43 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:28,919 Speaker 1: in the United States military. And here's the thing. General 44 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 1: Austin actually did a whole radar on this on rising. 45 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:34,720 Speaker 1: He was the person who started that whole failed train 46 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:38,120 Speaker 1: and equip program in Syria where like it was like 47 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:41,000 Speaker 1: a billion dollars or something, and half the weapons ended 48 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:43,000 Speaker 1: up in the hands of al Qaeda, and at the 49 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:45,040 Speaker 1: end of the day they had like three or four 50 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:49,960 Speaker 1: trained soldiers all things considered, So it's a complete and 51 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:53,320 Speaker 1: total joke. He has a very failed record in the region. 52 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:57,760 Speaker 1: But it does go to show that this strategy actually 53 00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:01,720 Speaker 1: began under Lloyd Austin, and that the ground was laid 54 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:05,359 Speaker 1: from Barack Obama to Donald Trump, who ramped it up, 55 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:07,360 Speaker 1: and now to Joe Biden, who I believe this is 56 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 1: the second time that he's used these quote unquote authorities, 57 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:13,839 Speaker 1: And it is a very tricky question. Here's the thing 58 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:17,520 Speaker 1: in twenty fourteen, in twenty fifteen and more, whenever people 59 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:20,440 Speaker 1: started doing this in Syria, I remember thinking this is 60 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:23,560 Speaker 1: kind of crazy. You know Bushi or al Asad is 61 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:28,240 Speaker 1: the legally quote unquote I guess internationally recognized president of Syria. 62 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:30,920 Speaker 1: All like a sad. I think he's a genocidal murderer. 63 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 1: That being said, he's still the president. And under United 64 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:38,520 Speaker 1: States law, we have to declare war against another country 65 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:40,800 Speaker 1: if we're going to bomb that country. We have now 66 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:43,920 Speaker 1: bombed it countless numbers of times. We're not the only ones. 67 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:46,520 Speaker 1: These realists bombed the Iranians. Of there's all kinds of 68 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 1: people that are playing around in Syria. But here's the difference. 69 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:52,520 Speaker 1: In our country. Congress is supposed to have a say. 70 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:55,280 Speaker 1: And the real joke of this all is that it's 71 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 1: all authorized under the two thousand and one AUMF and 72 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:01,040 Speaker 1: the response to nin e Life, which had to do 73 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:04,240 Speaker 1: with al Qaeda. But in this case, the bombs that 74 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:09,120 Speaker 1: we're dropping are on Iranian backed Shia militias who themselves 75 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:13,960 Speaker 1: our sectarian are in a sectarian war against ISIS. So 76 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:17,920 Speaker 1: you're like, wait, wait what And I'm not glorifying the 77 00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:21,040 Speaker 1: Iranian MILITIAUS here, okay, like they have their own agenda. 78 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:22,800 Speaker 1: I'm just saying, like, if you're going to use the 79 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:26,840 Speaker 1: al Qaeda ISIS AUMF against the people who are actually 80 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:29,920 Speaker 1: ideologically opposed to that. I think that's ridiculous. Well, and 81 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:33,600 Speaker 1: you want to bomb Iranian militias and possibly escalate war 82 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:36,840 Speaker 1: within that region, Congress should have a say, But they're 83 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 1: never gonna say because nobody wants the blowback from two 84 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:42,840 Speaker 1: thousand and one or from two thousand and three, which 85 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:44,800 Speaker 1: happened when all the senators went on the record for 86 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:47,200 Speaker 1: the Iraq war. So they let the president just do 87 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:50,400 Speaker 1: whatever the hell they want, and that is incredibly dangerous 88 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:52,760 Speaker 1: as a precedent. This is just the latest example. Why. Yeah, 89 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:54,800 Speaker 1: I mean, there is not even a fig leaf of 90 00:04:54,839 --> 00:04:58,039 Speaker 1: cover to pretend that this is lawful. Yeah, this is 91 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:04,800 Speaker 1: under US law, liar, unconstitutional. But because Congress is complicit, 92 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 1: because they don't actually want to have responsibility for war powers, 93 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:11,960 Speaker 1: Nancy Pelosi immediately comes down and says, oh, of course, 94 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:16,799 Speaker 1: this is justified, no problem. So this is clearly lawless. 95 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:20,520 Speaker 1: Glenn makes the case extraordinarily effectively. The president was set 96 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:23,320 Speaker 1: in the Obama administration, it was continuing the Trump administration, 97 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:25,760 Speaker 1: and now Biden's able to pick right back up. And 98 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:28,480 Speaker 1: this is the way that, by the way executive power works, 99 00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 1: no president be they Democrat or Republican, ever says, you 100 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:35,080 Speaker 1: know what, the guy before me did too much, went 101 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:38,960 Speaker 1: too far, abuse these powers, took too much power for himself. 102 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:42,640 Speaker 1: I'm going to walk it back. That literally never happens. 103 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:47,080 Speaker 1: Whatever expansions of power, whatever lawless behavior happened in the 104 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:49,800 Speaker 1: administration before, you can bet that the next one is 105 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 1: going to engage in very, very similar things. So there's 106 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 1: a few things going on here. First of all, there's 107 00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:59,240 Speaker 1: this weirdness of clearly these strikes are on Syrian and 108 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:04,320 Speaker 1: Iraqi soil, but they're framed and messaged like we're hitting Iran. 109 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 1: So it's almost like they're trying to create this public 110 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:11,039 Speaker 1: confusion and loophole that, well, we're not really going after 111 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 1: Syria in a rock, there's a messaging attempt to be like, 112 00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:16,440 Speaker 1: you guys hate Iran, so it's cool that we hit 113 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:19,440 Speaker 1: these Iranian back milicias. So that's one piece of what's 114 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:22,119 Speaker 1: going on here. Another piece of what's going on here 115 00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:26,400 Speaker 1: is there's this continued justification for more bombing and more 116 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:32,400 Speaker 1: bombing and more bombing. Already reportedly there's been retaliatory strikes 117 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 1: from these Iranian backed milicias as the Biden administration puts it, So, 118 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:39,800 Speaker 1: what's that going to justify. It's going to justify potentially 119 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 1: the next time that they feel like appeasing Israel or 120 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:46,520 Speaker 1: sending a message to domestic hardliners or just you know, 121 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:48,919 Speaker 1: give it another contract to their buddies that rate the 122 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:51,040 Speaker 1: On or Boeing or whatever, they're going to have all 123 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:54,920 Speaker 1: the justification they needed because they struck us. We struck them, 124 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:57,720 Speaker 1: Now they strike us back, and so the cycle can 125 00:06:57,839 --> 00:07:02,600 Speaker 1: just endlessly continue with out a single stop. And Treta 126 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:05,400 Speaker 1: Parsi has been pointing out this should not be These 127 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:08,599 Speaker 1: actions from the US shouldn't be divorced from the continued 128 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:13,040 Speaker 1: negotiations over the JCPOA in an attempt to rejoin the 129 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:17,360 Speaker 1: Iranian nuclear deal. So this is a way potentially of 130 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:19,880 Speaker 1: sort of appeasing Israel just so or we're still tough 131 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:21,760 Speaker 1: on Iran and we're still doing the things that you 132 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:24,400 Speaker 1: ultimately want us to do so that we can keep 133 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:27,160 Speaker 1: them quiet and we don't have another situation where, you know, 134 00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 1: the Israeli Prime Minister comes and gives a big speech 135 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:32,880 Speaker 1: to Congress and turns it into this whole partisan spectacle. 136 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 1: So basically dropping bombs to benefit the defense industry to 137 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 1: benefit like sort of public domestic messaging, and with not 138 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:46,040 Speaker 1: even a fig leaf of cover that this is ultimately constitutional. 139 00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:48,800 Speaker 1: What Biden claims and what Pelosi backed him up on, 140 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:53,240 Speaker 1: is that this was in self defense. Right we threatened? Was? 141 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:55,560 Speaker 1: Were we threatened by Iran? Here on our home? So 142 00:07:55,760 --> 00:07:58,080 Speaker 1: were we threatened? Are we supposed to be in Syria 143 00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:01,520 Speaker 1: at all? Do we have any justification be there whatsoever? No? 144 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:05,280 Speaker 1: Not at all. So this, all of this reasoning is 145 00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:10,240 Speaker 1: completely bogus, and honestly, no one could even make an 146 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:14,720 Speaker 1: honest case for this being constitutional. The Constitution is very 147 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:20,120 Speaker 1: clear war powers rest with Congress. Congress has advocated those powers. 148 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:22,800 Speaker 1: They don't want the responsibility, and so the commander in chief, 149 00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 1: whether it's Trump or Biden or Obama, can do whatever 150 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:28,720 Speaker 1: the hell they want and completely unjacked. Yeah, war a 151 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:31,560 Speaker 1: serious business. You can't just send American soldiers to go 152 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:33,760 Speaker 1: fight and die for nothing. And we're supposed to all 153 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:35,840 Speaker 1: have a say in that. And that's the problem. And 154 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:38,720 Speaker 1: it's like we look with Iran, Yeah, I mean it 155 00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:41,760 Speaker 1: was technically self defense, I guess because they attacked our 156 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:44,160 Speaker 1: troops were in Iraq. Why are we still in Iraq 157 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:47,679 Speaker 1: right now. I mean, look, you can throw twenty eleven 158 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:49,960 Speaker 1: at me all you want in terms of the in 159 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:52,200 Speaker 1: terms of leaving and all of that, it's not even 160 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:55,760 Speaker 1: close to the same situation Isis has essentially been eradicated. 161 00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 1: The Iraqi government and military are ten times stronger than 162 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:01,319 Speaker 1: they were back then. And there's actually no real reason 163 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:03,480 Speaker 1: why the United States has to have thousands of troops 164 00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:07,440 Speaker 1: in Iraq right now, let alone Afghanistan doing god knows what, 165 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 1: And that is actually what is creating a death spiral here. 166 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:12,840 Speaker 1: So let's put this next tweet up there on the screen. 167 00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:17,000 Speaker 1: In terms of congressional outrage, now not everyone criticized Biden. 168 00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:21,080 Speaker 1: Democratic Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi said that the 169 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:24,560 Speaker 1: strikes quote appeared to be a targeted and proportional response. 170 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:28,839 Speaker 1: So the Speaker of the House is supporting abdicating her 171 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:32,000 Speaker 1: own responsibility. It's her job in order to make sure 172 00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:36,000 Speaker 1: that war powers and war responsibilities are held within the 173 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:39,080 Speaker 1: purview of Congress, and she has completely abdicated that. And 174 00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:41,120 Speaker 1: go and see what Biden had to say, Like you 175 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:44,520 Speaker 1: can just see the casual nature in which we just 176 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:48,720 Speaker 1: discussed launching bombs once again on foreign soils country. Let's 177 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:51,680 Speaker 1: take a listen. We'll never get a nuclear weapon on 178 00:09:51,840 --> 00:09:57,920 Speaker 1: my watch, as they say. And you know, I directed 179 00:09:58,040 --> 00:10:03,880 Speaker 1: last night's air strikes targeting site choosed by the Iranian 180 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:08,120 Speaker 1: back militia groups responsible for recent attacks on the US 181 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 1: personnel Iraq, and I have the authority under Article too. 182 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:16,480 Speaker 1: And even those up in the Hill who were reluctant 183 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:20,480 Speaker 1: to acknowledge that and acknowledge that's the case. I also 184 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:23,400 Speaker 1: want to be clear, as I said, my team and 185 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:27,680 Speaker 1: I already working closely with the Israeli government and took 186 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:31,000 Speaker 1: off the stary this month. I'm looking forward to hosting 187 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:35,600 Speaker 1: Prime Minister Bennett. I mean, I think you can just 188 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:37,320 Speaker 1: see it right there. Of course you're sitting next to 189 00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:40,120 Speaker 1: the up is really Prime Minister or President too while 190 00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:42,160 Speaker 1: all this is happening. And just to take it back 191 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:44,200 Speaker 1: to the legal front, not an accident, by the way, 192 00:10:44,440 --> 00:10:47,240 Speaker 1: I mean that shouldn't be seen as happenstance. I want 193 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:49,640 Speaker 1: people to know just how crazy things have moved. And 194 00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:51,560 Speaker 1: Glenn pointed this out. Let's put this up there, which 195 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:54,640 Speaker 1: is that in twenty eleven, this is when things everything change, 196 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:59,400 Speaker 1: which is that the House rejected a Libyan authorization measure 197 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:03,040 Speaker 1: in order to bomb Libya, and then Obama bombed Libya 198 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:07,240 Speaker 1: anyway with NATO. I want everyone to remember NATO, whose 199 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:09,240 Speaker 1: job it is to protect us all from a nuclear 200 00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:12,600 Speaker 1: attack against Russia or I guess China now, and some 201 00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:16,080 Speaker 1: sort of self defense measure. We went in and actively 202 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:20,960 Speaker 1: bombed Libya, disintegrated that country into whatever the hell it 203 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:23,400 Speaker 1: is right now. I think there's a literal slave markets 204 00:11:23,440 --> 00:11:25,800 Speaker 1: that are happening there. So thank you Obama. But you 205 00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:28,439 Speaker 1: can see that that was a demarcation point, and the 206 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:30,360 Speaker 1: moment that the Dems, I think it was in the 207 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:32,680 Speaker 1: Senate at the time, let Obama get away with that. 208 00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:35,000 Speaker 1: Let's be real. The Republicans didn't care that much. John 209 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:37,440 Speaker 1: McCain was down there on the ground in Libya basically 210 00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:40,120 Speaker 1: trying to get Obama to bomb it even faster. The 211 00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:43,480 Speaker 1: moment that that happened, it was over twenty eleven. We 212 00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:47,200 Speaker 1: have had now nine or yeah, ten years of lawlessness 213 00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 1: in the way that we operate overseas, especially whenever it 214 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:54,400 Speaker 1: comes to these you know aumfs, all those truth I 215 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:57,080 Speaker 1: remember when those four troops got killed in Niger and 216 00:11:57,120 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 1: all those Americans were like, wait, we have troops in Hyder. 217 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:02,679 Speaker 1: Look what is going on here? It was like, oh, 218 00:12:02,679 --> 00:12:06,200 Speaker 1: we have hundreds of troops in Niger, Somalia, Libya, I 219 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:11,480 Speaker 1: mean Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Yemen. Who has voted in Congress 220 00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:14,840 Speaker 1: in order to ensure all of this? No one, And 221 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:17,880 Speaker 1: that don't even to discuss the US assistants in some 222 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:20,959 Speaker 1: of these other proxy conflicts. That's a legitimate policy effort 223 00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:23,439 Speaker 1: and more the president has purbe over and we should 224 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:26,360 Speaker 1: debate that. But in terms of the actual US boots 225 00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:28,680 Speaker 1: on the ground, people should be stunned to see what 226 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:31,400 Speaker 1: these people have gotten away with. The Obama people pushed it, 227 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:34,160 Speaker 1: the Trump people multiplied it by ten, and the Biden 228 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:36,640 Speaker 1: people are just going to continue using the authorities they 229 00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:39,880 Speaker 1: have here. Nothing will happen until Congress does something about it. Well, 230 00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:43,400 Speaker 1: and you know, when we think about authoritarianism, when we 231 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:47,280 Speaker 1: think about an executive just taking power and having absolutely 232 00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:50,120 Speaker 1: no accountability to the people, like, that's what's happened in 233 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:52,600 Speaker 1: the area of war making. And now you know, this 234 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:55,960 Speaker 1: is the third president in a row. George W. Bush 235 00:12:56,080 --> 00:12:59,440 Speaker 1: also took a lot of powers for himself there as well, 236 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:01,880 Speaker 1: but he did go to Congress and get an Aumm, 237 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:05,560 Speaker 1: so you had them all complicit was you know, not 238 00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:08,640 Speaker 1: a good state affairs either. But when you talk about 239 00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:12,839 Speaker 1: total authoritarian lawlessness, this is essentially what's happened. The founders 240 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:17,280 Speaker 1: really expressly were concerned about war making powers, who's supposed 241 00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:21,000 Speaker 1: to be a very serious business, and actually foresaw exactly 242 00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:23,800 Speaker 1: some of the conflicts of interest in how you know, 243 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:26,720 Speaker 1: a strong man leader could be in a position of 244 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:30,520 Speaker 1: using war making to bolster his image, or using war 245 00:13:30,559 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 1: making to bolster his partisanalities, or using war making to 246 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:36,720 Speaker 1: bolster his you know, his allies around the world that 247 00:13:36,760 --> 00:13:40,920 Speaker 1: were personally profitable to him. And so those checks were 248 00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:44,520 Speaker 1: expressly written to the Constitution for a reason, so that 249 00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:47,920 Speaker 1: the people of the United States would have some say 250 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:51,360 Speaker 1: in these activities. That's all gone. I mean, we just 251 00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:53,600 Speaker 1: need to be really clear eyed about that. And even 252 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:56,760 Speaker 1: though it almost feels routine now to see these news 253 00:13:56,840 --> 00:13:59,319 Speaker 1: items of up we you know, more bombs dropt and 254 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:02,360 Speaker 1: Syrium war bombs dropped in a rock. Oh, we've got 255 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:04,120 Speaker 1: troops on the ground in places that we didn't even 256 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:05,920 Speaker 1: know we had troops on the ground. Oh, you know, 257 00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:08,120 Speaker 1: we said we're getting out of Afghanistan. But maybe we're not, 258 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:10,840 Speaker 1: or maybe we're going to keep contractors there forever, et cetera, 259 00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:14,520 Speaker 1: et cetera. We can't get complacent in pretending like this 260 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:16,719 Speaker 1: is a normal state of affairs, or that this is 261 00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:19,160 Speaker 1: the way that the country is ultimately supposed to operate. 262 00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:20,880 Speaker 1: I did want to give a little bit of credit. 263 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:23,000 Speaker 1: There were a few lonely voices in Congress who did 264 00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:27,360 Speaker 1: criticize this decision. You had Ilhan Omar saying that Congress 265 00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:29,880 Speaker 1: should be consulted such strikes are a cycle of violence. 266 00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:33,120 Speaker 1: You had Senator Chris Murphy also critical of this. You 267 00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:36,520 Speaker 1: had Representative Barbara Lee saying, hey, maybe the US government 268 00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:39,440 Speaker 1: should spend more on housing for Americans instead of wars 269 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:41,480 Speaker 1: in the Middle East. So you did have a few 270 00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:45,640 Speaker 1: a few rogue voices out there critical of this decision. 271 00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:48,240 Speaker 1: But when you got the Speaker of the House saying, oh, yeah, 272 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:50,520 Speaker 1: this is fine, this is justified. We're cool with this, 273 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:55,000 Speaker 1: and very little media consternation, you just know that Biden's 274 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:57,720 Speaker 1: going to continue to act this way. If it's Kamala 275 00:14:57,720 --> 00:15:00,960 Speaker 1: Harris who comes next, or Trump again, or Ron DeSantis 276 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:03,240 Speaker 1: or whoever ends up being the next president the United States, 277 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:05,120 Speaker 1: they're going to do the same damn thing. They will 278 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:06,880 Speaker 1: all do it. And remember this, the people who are 279 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:08,960 Speaker 1: in that room who tell them, mister President, you need 280 00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:11,320 Speaker 1: to bomb Syria, that doesn't change. They're all the exact 281 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 1: same people. In many cases, they've been in and out 282 00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:16,040 Speaker 1: of government multiple times, and a lot of them made 283 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:18,920 Speaker 1: a lot of money in the interim period. Maybe I'm 284 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:20,680 Speaker 1: just a cynical man and I think that has something 285 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:23,320 Speaker 1: to do with it. But on the domestic front, Crystal, 286 00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:27,120 Speaker 1: I guess this is just as I don't neig what 287 00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:31,080 Speaker 1: the hell is going on? Yeah, okay, So obviously you 288 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:33,480 Speaker 1: all have probably been following this debate about there's a 289 00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:37,240 Speaker 1: lot of jobs that are going unfilled and workers have 290 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:39,920 Speaker 1: for the first time, maybe a little tiny bit of 291 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:45,080 Speaker 1: power in the marketplace. So the instant reaction to this 292 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:47,400 Speaker 1: state of affairs, rather than being like, hey, how do 293 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:50,200 Speaker 1: we make these jobs more appealing? So it's worth worker's 294 00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:53,320 Speaker 1: time to switch jobs, to come into these new jobs 295 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:55,560 Speaker 1: so that they can actually earn a living wage and 296 00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:57,080 Speaker 1: be able to take care of their kids and all 297 00:15:57,120 --> 00:15:59,600 Speaker 1: of that. Most of the reaction, and this was led 298 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:02,240 Speaker 1: by report Puplicans, but it's had bipartisan support as well. 299 00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:05,120 Speaker 1: Was we got to cut these unemployment benefits. People are 300 00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:08,000 Speaker 1: getting fat, lazy. We got to force them back into 301 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:12,440 Speaker 1: the workplace so that employers can continue to have the 302 00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:16,440 Speaker 1: powerless labor market that they've become accustomed to. So we're 303 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:18,800 Speaker 1: starting to get some results. Some of the states went 304 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:21,120 Speaker 1: ahead and cut those unemployment benefits, and so we're now 305 00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:24,800 Speaker 1: starting to get some results to see whether this had 306 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:27,960 Speaker 1: the intended impact of forcing workers back into the market 307 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:31,840 Speaker 1: so that these jobs could ultimately become filled. Stephen greenhouse 308 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:33,880 Speaker 1: over at the New York Times had an analysis of 309 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:36,360 Speaker 1: the data so far, and it's early and it's a 310 00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:39,080 Speaker 1: little bit anecdotal, but so far, it looks like the 311 00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:42,240 Speaker 1: people who thought that cutting the unemployment benefits would fix 312 00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:45,760 Speaker 1: everything and make things great for employers again, they were wrong. 313 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:48,440 Speaker 1: We can throw this tear sheet up on the screen. 314 00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:52,120 Speaker 1: So workforce development officials said they had seen virtually no 315 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:56,160 Speaker 1: uptick in applicants in Missouri since the governor of that 316 00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:58,480 Speaker 1: state announced that they would end the three hundred dollars 317 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:02,360 Speaker 1: weekly supplement to other benefits, and the online job site 318 00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:06,119 Speaker 1: indeed found that in states that have abandoned the federal benefits, 319 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:11,879 Speaker 1: clicks on job hostings were below the national average. And 320 00:17:11,920 --> 00:17:14,840 Speaker 1: you know it shouldn't be a surprise, Soccer, because we've 321 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:18,679 Speaker 1: actually already had a natural experiment with this. Remember at 322 00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:21,399 Speaker 1: the beginning of the pandemic, the unemployment plus up with 323 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:23,359 Speaker 1: six hundred dollars, not three hundred, that's right, and they 324 00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:25,120 Speaker 1: cut that back to three hundred. So if the theory 325 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:27,240 Speaker 1: of the case was correct that all you need to 326 00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:30,000 Speaker 1: do is cut these benefits and workers will flock back 327 00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:33,480 Speaker 1: to the marketplace, we would have seen that at least 328 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:35,480 Speaker 1: some impact when you cut it from six hundred to 329 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:37,480 Speaker 1: three hundred, and that's not what we saw at all. 330 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:40,880 Speaker 1: In fact, most workers return to work before the benefits 331 00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:44,560 Speaker 1: were even cut. Most people want to work and provide 332 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:47,560 Speaker 1: and have but have work that's meaningful and actually allows 333 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:49,879 Speaker 1: them to care for their family if they have a family, 334 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:53,879 Speaker 1: allows them to live in an apartment. And so the 335 00:17:54,359 --> 00:17:57,360 Speaker 1: focus on just let's make this as punitive as possible 336 00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:00,679 Speaker 1: to get workers back into the workplace, it's not even effective, 337 00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:04,280 Speaker 1: let alone moral. So that's what really comes out of 338 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:06,080 Speaker 1: this article. One other piece that I wanted to coot 339 00:18:06,119 --> 00:18:08,359 Speaker 1: because I thought this was really well put, he says. 340 00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:11,280 Speaker 1: He writes here this divide raises a fundamental question of 341 00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:14,280 Speaker 1: what a healthy labor market actually looks like. Doesn't mean 342 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:17,159 Speaker 1: workers are on such a knife edge that they feel 343 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:20,320 Speaker 1: compelled to take the first job that comes along, or 344 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:22,040 Speaker 1: is it one in which employers are the ones who 345 00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:24,359 Speaker 1: have to scramble and feel pressure to raise wages and 346 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:27,600 Speaker 1: improve working conditions. Are the economy and the public better 347 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:30,639 Speaker 1: off when workers get to be choosy or when employers do, 348 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:33,760 Speaker 1: which I thought really sort of crystallize what the core 349 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:36,760 Speaker 1: tension and question here is in terms of how you 350 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:38,919 Speaker 1: look at a healthy labor market. I think it's very 351 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:42,399 Speaker 1: important that we understand this story because welfare politics is 352 00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:45,000 Speaker 1: extraordinarily potent and it is taking off. I want people 353 00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:47,200 Speaker 1: to know that a lot of what has been internalized 354 00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:50,720 Speaker 1: by the American public is that the unemployment benefits are bad. 355 00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:53,520 Speaker 1: And I actually think in the future that some sort 356 00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:56,600 Speaker 1: of welfare politics will be very much within our purview, 357 00:18:56,680 --> 00:18:59,080 Speaker 1: especially if the economy continues to do very well. So 358 00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:01,200 Speaker 1: let's put this up there. On this Jordan Weisman actually 359 00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:03,439 Speaker 1: pointed this out. He is actually very in favor of 360 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:06,040 Speaker 1: this policy, but he points out New York Times survey, 361 00:19:06,119 --> 00:19:08,639 Speaker 1: so a New York Times survey says that fifty two 362 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:10,920 Speaker 1: percent of Americans want that three hundred dollars per week 363 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:14,199 Speaker 1: UI benefit to end immediately. Another thirty percent want to 364 00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:16,679 Speaker 1: last through September, while fifteen percent want them to go 365 00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 1: on and definitely only and even twenty seven percent of 366 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:22,560 Speaker 1: Democrats think that they should end it now. So a 367 00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:25,800 Speaker 1: slight plurer, a slight majority of Americans think that it 368 00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:28,240 Speaker 1: should end. And I think the reason why is because 369 00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:30,920 Speaker 1: the way that this is communicated, it does seem intuitive 370 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:33,040 Speaker 1: for a lot of people. But the problem is this, 371 00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:36,760 Speaker 1: stop thinking of people as widgets. People are not widgets 372 00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:39,440 Speaker 1: who are saying, well, I'm warning one hundred and fifty 373 00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:41,639 Speaker 1: dollars more per week by sitting on my couch and 374 00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:44,680 Speaker 1: doing nothing than I was in what I was doing previously. 375 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:47,479 Speaker 1: I've said this a million times. At this point, I 376 00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:50,840 Speaker 1: think this is the true and total revenge of our 377 00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:53,800 Speaker 1: failed policy of pushing people onto unemployment in the first place, 378 00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:57,119 Speaker 1: and in a way giving people a chance to reassess, 379 00:19:57,400 --> 00:19:59,840 Speaker 1: is this for me? Should I be doing this? I 380 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:02,160 Speaker 1: want to drive for Uber, so I take an Uber 381 00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:04,800 Speaker 1: every day and I asked these guys, they're throwing money 382 00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:06,959 Speaker 1: at them in order to go and drive, and guess what, 383 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:09,199 Speaker 1: a lot of people still don't want to drive. You 384 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:11,400 Speaker 1: know why because drive for Uber sucks for a lot 385 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:14,040 Speaker 1: of people, and driving for lyft I don't want to. 386 00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:16,240 Speaker 1: You know, just just single out Uber or lift ride 387 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:18,639 Speaker 1: share in general isn't fun. You know what else is 388 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:20,960 Speaker 1: in fun? A lot of service jobs? What else is 389 00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:24,360 Speaker 1: in fun? Some restaurant jobs. People did it in order 390 00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:26,800 Speaker 1: to make ends meet, but when they took a year 391 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:29,040 Speaker 1: and a half in order to reset, they said, yeah, 392 00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:30,679 Speaker 1: I just don't want to do this anymore. Yeah, that 393 00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:33,800 Speaker 1: is a powerful force. And you know what, we could 394 00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:36,520 Speaker 1: have spared ourselves as if we wanted to. We created 395 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:40,119 Speaker 1: the natural experiment separating people from their jobs. So this 396 00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:42,879 Speaker 1: is the time I'll keep saying again, was a disaster. 397 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:46,200 Speaker 1: Do you know how difficult it is once you've spent 398 00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:48,400 Speaker 1: a year and a half doing something else to say, yeah, 399 00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:50,400 Speaker 1: I'm going to go back to doing the exact same thing. 400 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:53,119 Speaker 1: How many people actually want to do that? Not many? 401 00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:56,400 Speaker 1: And this is the final revenge I think against Washington policy. 402 00:20:56,680 --> 00:20:58,800 Speaker 1: In a way, I don't blame people for thinking, but 403 00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:01,240 Speaker 1: what I would encourage them is to say, think a 404 00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:04,320 Speaker 1: little bit more like human beings, If you did something 405 00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:08,360 Speaker 1: else for sixteen months, would you not reassess and think, 406 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:10,440 Speaker 1: maybe I want to do something different, Maybe I want 407 00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:12,359 Speaker 1: to move somewhere. You know, I was looking at the data. 408 00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:14,719 Speaker 1: People are moving in rates that you wouldn't believe, not 409 00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:18,240 Speaker 1: just in terms of buying houses. They're moving states, They're 410 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:21,600 Speaker 1: thinking about going south, going west, go even some going north. 411 00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:26,000 Speaker 1: New York and California have lost tens of thousands of people. 412 00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:28,040 Speaker 1: And I'm you know, it's not just rich people. They're 413 00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:31,600 Speaker 1: moving many middle class people as well. People are reassessing 414 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:34,280 Speaker 1: their life. I'm sure we're you know, subconsciously. Maybe that 415 00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:36,600 Speaker 1: was part of it for us too. I don't know, true. 416 00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:38,120 Speaker 1: I mean, if you think about it, I mean we're 417 00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:40,680 Speaker 1: part of a great societal trend. I mean Joe Rogan 418 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:42,399 Speaker 1: and all those people they moved to Austin, like this 419 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:45,560 Speaker 1: was a great reset button for a lot of people. 420 00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:49,159 Speaker 1: And there's going to just be a crazy situation. And 421 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:52,960 Speaker 1: I have deep and total sympathy with many businesses who 422 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:57,040 Speaker 1: cannot find people to work, and most Americans are generally 423 00:21:57,080 --> 00:21:59,560 Speaker 1: pro business. They don't want them to suffer, which is 424 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:02,560 Speaker 1: why they are saying, let's end these unemployment benefits. I've 425 00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:04,560 Speaker 1: said it a million times. Pay people to go back 426 00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:07,080 Speaker 1: to work. There's an easy, easy way to do this. Well, 427 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:09,760 Speaker 1: use those UI benefits, give them to people whenever they 428 00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:12,359 Speaker 1: go back to work, make it transferable, and let it 429 00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:15,879 Speaker 1: phase out in like September, October, November, whenever. Let's make 430 00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:17,840 Speaker 1: this easy on the business and let's pay people have 431 00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:20,399 Speaker 1: a little bit more money. Yes, and there has to 432 00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:24,040 Speaker 1: be two pieces to the isn't reset that's like a 433 00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:27,720 Speaker 1: conspiratorial great reset, the great re Okay, so we can 434 00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:28,960 Speaker 1: say some people are going to be mad at you 435 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:31,320 Speaker 1: for saying the great research. Okay, well that is a 436 00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:34,480 Speaker 1: conspiracy book. Go ahead, whatever the rethink, the great rethink 437 00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:37,960 Speaker 1: that people are going through. There has to be two pieces. 438 00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:40,360 Speaker 1: There has to be on the one hand, the desired 439 00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:43,119 Speaker 1: and ability of workers to switch it up. You know 440 00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:45,920 Speaker 1: that was forced upon them, right. I think if you 441 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:48,040 Speaker 1: would ask people at the beginning of the pandemic, what's 442 00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:50,560 Speaker 1: the policy that you want? They didn't want the instability 443 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:52,080 Speaker 1: of not knowing what job that they were going to 444 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:55,639 Speaker 1: go back to. They wanted to stay attached to their job. Now, 445 00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:59,320 Speaker 1: I actually think that what the ideal policy would have 446 00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:03,320 Speaker 1: been rather than forcing people to attach their job rather 447 00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:05,560 Speaker 1: than doing the custom balance. For example, of the airline 448 00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:08,400 Speaker 1: industry that we've covered, how much that you know, how 449 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:12,400 Speaker 1: exploited that ultimately was. If you had given people direct 450 00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:15,160 Speaker 1: aid but made it a certainty so you know what's 451 00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:16,639 Speaker 1: coming in, you know you're going to be fine for 452 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:18,880 Speaker 1: the duration of the pandemic. And that would have still 453 00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:20,920 Speaker 1: allowed people to, Hey, I'm going to go back to school. 454 00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:22,240 Speaker 1: Hey I'm going to rethink whether I want to be 455 00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:24,280 Speaker 1: in the restaurant industry working for tips. Hey i want 456 00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:25,680 Speaker 1: to rethink whether I want to be on the front 457 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:28,800 Speaker 1: lines in Walmart doing this job for low pay with 458 00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:31,719 Speaker 1: terrible schedule and no flexibility and all of that stuff. 459 00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:35,119 Speaker 1: To me, that would have ultimately been the ideal situation. 460 00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:36,800 Speaker 1: But so you have to have two pieces. You have 461 00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:39,160 Speaker 1: to have. On the one hand, the sort of rethink 462 00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:43,000 Speaker 1: that we're seeing, which is happening at every level of 463 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:46,399 Speaker 1: the workforce. Is happening among you know, affluent white collar professionals, 464 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:49,320 Speaker 1: it's happening among blue collar workers, it's happening among service workers. 465 00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:52,399 Speaker 1: We're seeing these shifts occur, But you also have to 466 00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:55,600 Speaker 1: have a corresponding shift among the public of thinking, you 467 00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:59,000 Speaker 1: know what, low prices and cheap goods are not the 468 00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:01,639 Speaker 1: only thing that I care about people have because the 469 00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:07,040 Speaker 1: reality is in countries where you have people actually earning 470 00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:10,280 Speaker 1: a living wage, things do cost a little bit more, 471 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:14,000 Speaker 1: you know. I mean, we know from getting these mugs 472 00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:17,520 Speaker 1: Union made an American Maid and the T shirts too, 473 00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:21,240 Speaker 1: that if you want to actually have workers who didn't 474 00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:22,879 Speaker 1: have to like shit in a bag and pissing a 475 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:25,880 Speaker 1: bottle and not ever see their kids make your stuff, 476 00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:28,960 Speaker 1: it costs some money. It costs. It costs a little more. 477 00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:32,199 Speaker 1: It costs a little more money. And now there's a 478 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:35,119 Speaker 1: lot of fear mongering about like this Chipotle story in 479 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:37,440 Speaker 1: New York and whatever about the oh the burrito costs 480 00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:39,800 Speaker 1: they're going through the roof or whatever. When they've done 481 00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:42,800 Speaker 1: the analysis of hey, if McDonald's paid their workers a 482 00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:44,440 Speaker 1: living wage, how much would the cost of the big 483 00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:47,600 Speaker 1: mac go up? And the numbers are pretty small. It's like, oh, 484 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:49,680 Speaker 1: you'd have to pay an extra forty cents or something 485 00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:53,480 Speaker 1: for a big Mac. But the only value that we've 486 00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:57,040 Speaker 1: had in the society is the really short term one 487 00:24:57,119 --> 00:24:59,800 Speaker 1: of I want the big mac and the mug and 488 00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:03,680 Speaker 1: the Walmart goods as cheap as I can possibly get them. 489 00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:07,520 Speaker 1: So there has to be a shift as well in 490 00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:11,360 Speaker 1: accepting that, Look, a lot of these costs can be absorbed, 491 00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:16,400 Speaker 1: especially by behemoths like Walmart and Amazon, et cetera. But yeah, 492 00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:19,359 Speaker 1: some portion of it, a relatively small point, is going 493 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:21,320 Speaker 1: to get passed on to consumers and things are going 494 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:23,600 Speaker 1: to cost a little bit more. So you have to 495 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:27,320 Speaker 1: have that rethink as well, or you have to have 496 00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:31,440 Speaker 1: the government get more directly involved in subsidizing wages. Because 497 00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:34,359 Speaker 1: I was looking at the numbers. Also in this Stephen 498 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:37,640 Speaker 1: Greenhouse article he focused in he did like a profile 499 00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:40,879 Speaker 1: of a jobs fair in outside of Saint Louis, or 500 00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:43,119 Speaker 1: in Saint Louis, where there were jobs that were being 501 00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:45,320 Speaker 1: off really were like eleven dollars an hour, fourteen dollars 502 00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:47,800 Speaker 1: an hour, twelve dollars an hour, et cetera. And the 503 00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:49,919 Speaker 1: employers were thinking, like, these are pretty good jobs, like 504 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:53,160 Speaker 1: these are decent wages. But for the workers, they're looking 505 00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:56,400 Speaker 1: at the fact that if you've got a kid in 506 00:25:56,440 --> 00:26:00,959 Speaker 1: Saint Louis, it would require thirty dollars an hour in 507 00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:03,440 Speaker 1: order to be able to live and support a child. 508 00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:06,760 Speaker 1: If you've got two adults working with two children, they 509 00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:09,840 Speaker 1: each have to earn roughly twenty one dollars an hour. 510 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:12,600 Speaker 1: So even when we're talking about in Saint Louis, is 511 00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:16,199 Speaker 1: not like a crazy expensive, mid level metropolis. We're not 512 00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:19,719 Speaker 1: talking about New York or DC or LA or San Francisco. 513 00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:22,159 Speaker 1: This is, like, you know, a pretty standard cost of 514 00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:26,560 Speaker 1: living for normal city across the country, And fifteen dollars 515 00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:30,439 Speaker 1: an hour is not a living wage, especially if you 516 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:34,440 Speaker 1: have kids, and especially god forbid, you're a single parent 517 00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:37,640 Speaker 1: trying to raise a kid. So that's the reality that's 518 00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:40,360 Speaker 1: facing workers, and for so long we've just accepted them 519 00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:42,840 Speaker 1: to like suck it up and suffer and figure it 520 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:46,600 Speaker 1: out by some magical means. For the first time, workers 521 00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:49,880 Speaker 1: are actually in a position to have a tiny, tiny 522 00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:51,680 Speaker 1: bit of power in the workplace, and there are a 523 00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:53,520 Speaker 1: lot of people that cannot handle that and see that 524 00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:56,280 Speaker 1: as a disaster rather than seeing it as a good thing. 525 00:26:56,440 --> 00:27:00,280 Speaker 1: After forty years of workers getting routinely screwed year after 526 00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:02,160 Speaker 1: year after year, you see it as a disaster because 527 00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:03,840 Speaker 1: people are presenting it in zero some terms, and we 528 00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:05,720 Speaker 1: just shouldn't present it in zero some terms. Doesn't have 529 00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:07,480 Speaker 1: to be that way. The government's presenting it that way. 530 00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:09,240 Speaker 1: They are actually the ones who made it semi zero 531 00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:11,000 Speaker 1: some by screwing a lot of the workers and sending 532 00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:13,440 Speaker 1: them home in the first place and then not compensating 533 00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:15,679 Speaker 1: them for it. The struct study just came out that 534 00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:18,199 Speaker 1: half the people who applied for unemployment benefits did not 535 00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:20,760 Speaker 1: get their unemployment benefits. Oh, maybe that's the reason why 536 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:22,760 Speaker 1: we need a stimulus check. Looking at you all the 537 00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:25,720 Speaker 1: people who said that that shouldn't be part of the policy. 538 00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:28,119 Speaker 1: So going back and just looking at it is it 539 00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:30,159 Speaker 1: doesn't have to be zero sum. It really doesn't. Like 540 00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:32,160 Speaker 1: you can have worker power, and you can help businesses 541 00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:35,000 Speaker 1: too by paying them money. And we can especially make 542 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:36,639 Speaker 1: it small business cut off and not have it so 543 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:39,560 Speaker 1: that Amazon and Jeff Bezos and all those people are benefits. 544 00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:42,240 Speaker 1: This is called policy. The problem is nobody wants to 545 00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:45,040 Speaker 1: do it. It's easier to just fake, make to set 546 00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:48,280 Speaker 1: fake terms of the debates and then just fight, you know, 547 00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:51,920 Speaker 1: around this, and people get scraps. And unfortunately, I think 548 00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:53,919 Speaker 1: that's exactly where we are. Hey, so remember how we 549 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:57,080 Speaker 1: told you how awesome premium membership was, Well, here we 550 00:27:57,119 --> 00:27:59,720 Speaker 1: are again to remind you that becoming a premium member 551 00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:02,520 Speaker 1: means you don't have to listen to our constant please 552 00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:05,040 Speaker 1: for you to subscribe. So what are you waiting for? 553 00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:08,360 Speaker 1: Become a premium member today by going to Breakingpoints dot com, 554 00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:11,359 Speaker 1: which you can click on in the show notes and 555 00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:14,919 Speaker 1: speaking of fake terms of debates and all of that, 556 00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:18,520 Speaker 1: Blackrock our favorite company, the new American real estate company. 557 00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:21,800 Speaker 1: I'm just joking, yeah, ma'am landlord, I guess America's landlord. 558 00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:25,800 Speaker 1: Who the neoliberals say that we should welcome into our 559 00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:28,640 Speaker 1: neighborhoods despite the fact that they would definitely raise them 560 00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:30,600 Speaker 1: to the ground if they could. Let's move us on 561 00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:32,240 Speaker 1: the screen. This is a perfect namme. You want all 562 00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:36,480 Speaker 1: the government works. Top US officials consulted with Blackrock as 563 00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:40,280 Speaker 1: the markets melted down. The world's largest asset manager was 564 00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:44,640 Speaker 1: central to the pandemic crisis response. Emails and calendar records 565 00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:48,760 Speaker 1: underscore how Larry Fink, who is the head of Blackrock, 566 00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:52,120 Speaker 1: was in frequent touch with Secretary of the Treasury Steve 567 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:55,920 Speaker 1: Mnushin and Jerome Powell, the Chairman of the Federal Reserve, 568 00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:58,800 Speaker 1: in the days before and after many of the fed's 569 00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:02,320 Speaker 1: emergency rescue op options were announced in late March, and 570 00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:04,760 Speaker 1: the emails, which were obtained by the New York Times 571 00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:08,520 Speaker 1: through records requests, they show how mister Fink was part 572 00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:12,160 Speaker 1: of this entire rescue package, referring to it as quote 573 00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:15,920 Speaker 1: the project that he and the FED were quote working 574 00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:20,640 Speaker 1: on together. And I think this underscores how Larry Fink, 575 00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:24,640 Speaker 1: Steve Mnuchan, Jerome Powell, and Larry Kudlow were all together 576 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:28,480 Speaker 1: on a call the day before the Fed's big announcement. 577 00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:31,760 Speaker 1: So here's the thing. There's been a lot of criticism 578 00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:34,440 Speaker 1: of the Federal Reserve. I would say, in general that 579 00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:36,720 Speaker 1: they acted well, and I know that's going to piss 580 00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:39,200 Speaker 1: a lot of people off, but I believe that their 581 00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:42,240 Speaker 1: job was to stabilize the American financial system and also 582 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:44,600 Speaker 1: make it so that we don't have runaway inflation and 583 00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:45,720 Speaker 1: all that. And I know we're going to get a 584 00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:47,720 Speaker 1: lot of criticism for that. But remember there's a dual 585 00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:50,240 Speaker 1: part of the Fed's mandate, which is also on unemployment. 586 00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:52,160 Speaker 1: And I would say that in general they acted in 587 00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:54,880 Speaker 1: the better interest. But I would say that this does 588 00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:58,800 Speaker 1: show who gets their phone calls answered and gets to 589 00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:02,440 Speaker 1: shape American policy. It's Blackrock. And if you think that 590 00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:06,000 Speaker 1: it is just a Steve Mnus thing, Larry Fink has 591 00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:09,280 Speaker 1: two former senior aides who are top people in the 592 00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:12,080 Speaker 1: White House. So the former National Economic Council director was 593 00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:15,040 Speaker 1: Larry Kudlow, who is a friend of Larry Fink, and 594 00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:18,320 Speaker 1: now the current head of the National Economic Council Brian Diese. Yeah, 595 00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:20,560 Speaker 1: he was the former chief of staff for Larry Fink. 596 00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:23,560 Speaker 1: So tell me who runs the government. Go ahead and 597 00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:26,160 Speaker 1: tell me. And I know that this is gonna seem 598 00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:29,440 Speaker 1: conspiratorial almost in a way. But here's the deal, Like 599 00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:33,640 Speaker 1: these people have intimate knowledge of American financial policy before 600 00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:36,280 Speaker 1: it's even announced. They are the ones who everything is 601 00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:39,200 Speaker 1: crafted towards. And I don't think it's a secret why 602 00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:42,320 Speaker 1: Larry Fink is richer than ever today as a chief 603 00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:46,200 Speaker 1: executive of Blackrock, with by the way, connections in both 604 00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:50,000 Speaker 1: administrations then a lot of Americans were In the beginning 605 00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:52,640 Speaker 1: of March of twenty twenty, Blackrock was one of the 606 00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:56,720 Speaker 1: companies that profited tremendously during the pandemic. Now, of course, 607 00:30:56,720 --> 00:31:00,920 Speaker 1: they say, let's put in the lawyerly language, etcetera, etcetera, 608 00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:04,480 Speaker 1: that there was a complete wall of separation between mister 609 00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:07,000 Speaker 1: Fink and between you know, what they were doing in 610 00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:09,360 Speaker 1: terms of buying and selling and looking to profit in 611 00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:12,480 Speaker 1: the market. There was absolutely no communication between them, so 612 00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:14,880 Speaker 1: there was no possibility for corruption. This was all on 613 00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:17,400 Speaker 1: the up and up, etcetera, etcetera, according to Blackrock. According 614 00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:20,520 Speaker 1: to Blackron, what was really fascinating here is that they 615 00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:24,720 Speaker 1: actually have the receipts of who it was that Mnuchian 616 00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:28,600 Speaker 1: was talking to. How many phone calls went out just 617 00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:33,160 Speaker 1: before that effort was announced. Number one was Jerome Pala 618 00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:37,960 Speaker 1: fetchair makes sense. Number two Larry Fink of Blackrock. Number 619 00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:41,040 Speaker 1: two more than the president, more than the president. Number 620 00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:43,120 Speaker 1: three was Mike Creeper. I didn't remember him being that 621 00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:46,640 Speaker 1: involved a banking chairman. Okay, you've got Pat Toomey, who 622 00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:50,640 Speaker 1: has terrible politics as well. You've got Larry Kudlow is 623 00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:53,560 Speaker 1: next on the list, and it goes on from there. 624 00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:57,160 Speaker 1: But the second, the person who got the second most 625 00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:00,000 Speaker 1: number of phone calls from Steve Mnuchin, who of course 626 00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:03,440 Speaker 1: is a Wall Street creature himself, was Larry Fink. Yes, 627 00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:06,560 Speaker 1: what does that tell you about That's incredible? I mean, 628 00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:09,479 Speaker 1: this is this is the proof, right, phone call more 629 00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:13,200 Speaker 1: than the president ronment that's well crafted, the bailout provisions, 630 00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:17,000 Speaker 1: who directed the entire response. This was what was really 631 00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:20,480 Speaker 1: happening behind the scenes, and so it's no surprise that 632 00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:23,200 Speaker 1: not only Black Rock but all of their peers, you know, 633 00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:27,840 Speaker 1: they did tremendously well and on the Fed's response. Here, 634 00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:32,400 Speaker 1: my biggest issue with the FED response was that we 635 00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:35,040 Speaker 1: have all these systems built into place that are like 636 00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:37,920 Speaker 1: automatic stabilizers for the market. Oh yeah, so you don't 637 00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:41,200 Speaker 1: you know, the second that there's a problem, they shored up, 638 00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:43,640 Speaker 1: the trillions go in, they're good to go, make sure 639 00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:46,600 Speaker 1: that there's total stability. And these these guys they never 640 00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:49,120 Speaker 1: have to worry about the things that you all had 641 00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:51,840 Speaker 1: to worry about during the pandemic, and there's nothing equivalent 642 00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:54,960 Speaker 1: like that for the American people. That's the big issue 643 00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:57,080 Speaker 1: with the whole way that this is all set up, 644 00:32:57,120 --> 00:32:59,160 Speaker 1: and it's not an accident, because the reason it's set 645 00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:00,880 Speaker 1: up that way is because you yeah, guys like Larry 646 00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:03,240 Speaker 1: Fink who are pulling the levers behind the scenes. So 647 00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:08,320 Speaker 1: it's an incredibly important and revealing piece of reporting about 648 00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:12,200 Speaker 1: how that bailout was ultimately crafted and who has a 649 00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:15,360 Speaker 1: presence here. Something that we were talking about from the 650 00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:20,160 Speaker 1: beginning with the bailout provisions, because you had the piece 651 00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:22,520 Speaker 1: that we knew was that Trump was talking to CEOs, 652 00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:25,760 Speaker 1: he was talking to Wall Street guys, and there was 653 00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:28,479 Speaker 1: no you know, hey, let's go talk to union leaders. Hey, 654 00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:30,960 Speaker 1: let's go talk to actual working people and see what's 655 00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:34,520 Speaker 1: going on for them, see how their voices might impact 656 00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:36,280 Speaker 1: this process and what they would like to see, what 657 00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:39,520 Speaker 1: would make their lives possible to get through all of this. 658 00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:43,000 Speaker 1: And you know, Trump was sort of like, I don't 659 00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:44,920 Speaker 1: know that I would say he's uniquely tied to wallstrere, 660 00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:47,080 Speaker 1: but he was certainly unafraid of bringing on kinds of 661 00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:50,360 Speaker 1: Wall Street people in his administration. Obama was basically put 662 00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:53,480 Speaker 1: into office by Wall Street and Biden has a lot 663 00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:56,000 Speaker 1: of those same ties. So this is part of the 664 00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:59,760 Speaker 1: like bipartisan infrastructure, It's just as likely that Larry Fink 665 00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:01,680 Speaker 1: would get a call from the Biden administration as the 666 00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:04,520 Speaker 1: Trump and mess oh absolutely, I want people. And yeah, 667 00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:06,880 Speaker 1: I mean given that he has two former aids and 668 00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:08,600 Speaker 1: one of his other aids is the set number two 669 00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:11,520 Speaker 1: with the Treasury Department, nothing has changed here. And look 670 00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:14,800 Speaker 1: There's another story which I think underscores something very clearly. 671 00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:17,480 Speaker 1: This is around Peter tele and how he used a 672 00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:21,280 Speaker 1: roth Ira account to turn it into a five billion 673 00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:24,799 Speaker 1: dollar account which he never has to pay any taxes on. 674 00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:26,640 Speaker 1: This is one of the most stunning things I've ever seen. 675 00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:29,319 Speaker 1: So let's put this up there. From Pro Publica, they 676 00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:32,760 Speaker 1: call him Lord of the Rocks. How Peter Teal turned 677 00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:35,480 Speaker 1: a retirement account for a middle class into a five 678 00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:40,200 Speaker 1: billion dollar tax free piggybank. This is honestly crazy. And look, 679 00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:41,960 Speaker 1: I'll just say, like we're covering the story. I mean, 680 00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:44,000 Speaker 1: Peter Teal is somebody who I respect and who I 681 00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:46,520 Speaker 1: actually see the world very similarly to in the way 682 00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:49,239 Speaker 1: he leaves the economy and China and all of that. 683 00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:52,040 Speaker 1: But this is some of the most brazen tax avoidance 684 00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:54,520 Speaker 1: I've ever seen in my entire life. Essentially, what he 685 00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:58,360 Speaker 1: did is that back whenever he was the CEO of PayPal, 686 00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:02,960 Speaker 1: he put two thousand dollars into a retirement account roth Ira, 687 00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:05,680 Speaker 1: which has an income cap in terms of when you're 688 00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:07,680 Speaker 1: able to put in it. It's made it so that 689 00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:10,920 Speaker 1: it's like post tax income. You can invest it and 690 00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:12,879 Speaker 1: then the proceeds on that you don't have to pay 691 00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:15,200 Speaker 1: any taxes on. It's a way in order for middle 692 00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:18,200 Speaker 1: class people in general in order to build retirement accounts 693 00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:20,719 Speaker 1: while also not having to will also be able to 694 00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:23,120 Speaker 1: not have to pay taxes in their later years and 695 00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:25,319 Speaker 1: their elderly years. But what he ended up doing with 696 00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:29,279 Speaker 1: this account is he used the roth Ira to then 697 00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:35,640 Speaker 1: go through and buy on a non public PayPal stock 698 00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:38,880 Speaker 1: which he was the CEO of, and pennies on the 699 00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:42,080 Speaker 1: dollar so PayPal, which eventually sold to eBay for like 700 00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:43,960 Speaker 1: billions of dollars or whatever. That's how he made a 701 00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:47,480 Speaker 1: lot of his wealth as well. So the roth Ira exploded, 702 00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:50,839 Speaker 1: and then he kept using the wroth money in order 703 00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:54,640 Speaker 1: to buy non public stocks and other companies which he 704 00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:57,640 Speaker 1: had access to in order to keep buying. And so 705 00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:02,640 Speaker 1: this is now ballooned to buy five billion dollars, and 706 00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:05,760 Speaker 1: that five billion he does not have to legally pay 707 00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:09,520 Speaker 1: once he hits the retirement age a single dime in 708 00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:13,839 Speaker 1: taxes on. Think about that five billion untaxed. This is 709 00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:17,440 Speaker 1: probably one of the most brazen tax avoidance schemes in 710 00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:20,080 Speaker 1: like modern American history, which is totally legal, that's what 711 00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:22,399 Speaker 1: I mean. So like under the pretext of the law. 712 00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:25,040 Speaker 1: Nothing illegal going on here. But if you want to 713 00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:28,160 Speaker 1: see how messed up the American financial system is in 714 00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:31,160 Speaker 1: the way that we tax wealth and financial transactions and more, 715 00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:34,880 Speaker 1: this is the most prime example that there is five 716 00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:40,680 Speaker 1: billion dollars completely tax free. I don't know what to say, Crystal. 717 00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:42,719 Speaker 1: I mean, it's totally nuts. Well, and I'm sure you 718 00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:45,719 Speaker 1: guys know. I mean, the intention of roth IRA's is 719 00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:48,960 Speaker 1: to allow middle class Americans to build a retirement account 720 00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:51,399 Speaker 1: for themselves. That's why what these things, that's what these 721 00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:55,280 Speaker 1: are supposed to be used for. And so he's using 722 00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:58,759 Speaker 1: this vehicle and just like blatantly abusing it. And as 723 00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:02,000 Speaker 1: you said, this five billion dollars he won't pay a 724 00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:05,640 Speaker 1: single penny of taxes on as long as he waits 725 00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:08,680 Speaker 1: until the six months shy of his sixtieth birthday and 726 00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:10,480 Speaker 1: then when he can do whatever he wants with it 727 00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:15,520 Speaker 1: and never never face a single penny of taxes on 728 00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:19,439 Speaker 1: any of that money. And by the way, I mean, 729 00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:22,759 Speaker 1: what's really been there's been some really fascinating things about this. 730 00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:27,759 Speaker 1: All comes from the trove of IRS document which from 731 00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:30,840 Speaker 1: billionaires that Pro Publica has been reporting on, and of 732 00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:35,360 Speaker 1: course One of the hilarious, said outrageous, ridiculous aspects of 733 00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:39,000 Speaker 1: all of this reporting has been the response from both 734 00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:42,440 Speaker 1: the Biden administration but also mostly from the right, that 735 00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:46,359 Speaker 1: are like, how dare they release these tax or to ors? 736 00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:49,759 Speaker 1: Not like whoa, I mean, they've just taken Like the 737 00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:53,520 Speaker 1: real issue is that how dare we understand how these 738 00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:58,400 Speaker 1: billionaires are getting away with, you know, legalized theft from 739 00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:02,400 Speaker 1: the United States Treasury? They really think that the operat 740 00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:04,600 Speaker 1: issue here, the thing we should all be really concerned 741 00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:06,200 Speaker 1: about is the fact that any of us got to 742 00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:08,719 Speaker 1: find out any of this information, which I doubt hear. 743 00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:10,960 Speaker 1: Deal cares like he still doesn't have to pay incredible well, 744 00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:12,480 Speaker 1: and I guess that is one thing you have to 745 00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:16,080 Speaker 1: say about him, Like he's very aggressively publicly anti tax 746 00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:21,120 Speaker 1: so this is consistent with I guess his philosophy. But 747 00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:26,480 Speaker 1: in addition to these you know, technically very highly dubious 748 00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:29,759 Speaker 1: and sketchy and aggressive but maybe technically legal schemes, we 749 00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:32,800 Speaker 1: also know that a lot of billionaires they are engaging 750 00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:36,239 Speaker 1: in illegal tax avoidance. One of the things that we 751 00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:39,560 Speaker 1: learned this year is that there's a massive gap in 752 00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:42,840 Speaker 1: IRS and for enforcement it's more complicated and more expensive 753 00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:44,520 Speaker 1: to go after people who are at the top of 754 00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:46,440 Speaker 1: the food chain because they've got the lawyers and they've 755 00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:49,319 Speaker 1: got all these complicated schemes employed. That makes it much 756 00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:51,520 Speaker 1: harder to go after them. And we know that there's 757 00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:55,040 Speaker 1: a massive amount of just tax cheating at the top 758 00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:58,840 Speaker 1: as well. So in addition to these like legal schemes 759 00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:01,960 Speaker 1: that are being revealed by Pro Publica, there's also clearly 760 00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:04,279 Speaker 1: this is again from the IRIS Commission, there's a lot 761 00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:07,200 Speaker 1: of illegal a billion of tax i've hundreds of billions 762 00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:10,200 Speaker 1: of doll tax cheating going on with these people as well, 763 00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:13,200 Speaker 1: which is just again it's bananas that it's not good 764 00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:15,560 Speaker 1: enough for you that you get to take this five 765 00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:17,799 Speaker 1: billion dollars and not pay a single penny and tax 766 00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:20,000 Speaker 1: on it while you all are you know, way journing 767 00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:22,879 Speaker 1: and paying in what you owe and doing what you're 768 00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:26,240 Speaker 1: supposed to do and like really supporting the entire country 769 00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:30,200 Speaker 1: and making it possible so that we can have infrastructure 770 00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:32,719 Speaker 1: and you know, have the nation that we have as 771 00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:35,000 Speaker 1: much as it's sort of crumbling underneath us right now, 772 00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:37,759 Speaker 1: and these people get away with doing none of that, 773 00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:39,640 Speaker 1: and it's not enough of them to engage in the 774 00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:41,600 Speaker 1: legal schemes. They've also got that got to go that 775 00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:43,720 Speaker 1: extra mile and make sure they pay even less taxes 776 00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:46,040 Speaker 1: by just out and out cheating on it. That's what's 777 00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:50,319 Speaker 1: really outrageous here. And you know, I'm obviously I'm not 778 00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:53,719 Speaker 1: super concerned about like deficits, and that doesn't drive my politics, 779 00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:56,520 Speaker 1: et cetera. This is a basic matter of fairness. It's 780 00:39:56,520 --> 00:40:00,279 Speaker 1: a basic matter of feeling like the country is set 781 00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:04,319 Speaker 1: up for the many rather than the few, like Peter teal, 782 00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:07,040 Speaker 1: and I think it also reveals as we're having, as 783 00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:09,400 Speaker 1: we're heading more into these tax debates about oh, do 784 00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:11,920 Speaker 1: we lift the marginal tax rate, do we lift the 785 00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:14,719 Speaker 1: capital gains tax rate? Like? What can we do here? 786 00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:17,160 Speaker 1: You got to really get at some of these schemes, 787 00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:20,440 Speaker 1: and you really got to go after wealth because ultimately, 788 00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:24,760 Speaker 1: there are so many tricks to disguise money as wealth 789 00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:27,000 Speaker 1: versus income, and of course it's only income that you 790 00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:29,719 Speaker 1: can possibly have a chance at taxing that you know, 791 00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:31,919 Speaker 1: to lift the top marginal tax rate a few points, 792 00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:33,560 Speaker 1: I don't think that would I don't think that would 793 00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:36,640 Speaker 1: change Peter Teele's situation. One ie, one of the billionaires 794 00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:39,480 Speaker 1: This is why I have become an enthusiastic supporter actually 795 00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:41,240 Speaker 1: of the state tax, because you know what, the easiest 796 00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:43,200 Speaker 1: way in order to capture all this stuff is upon death, 797 00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:45,120 Speaker 1: if whenever you try to pass it off to time. 798 00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:47,319 Speaker 1: I am a huge supporter of that's what it is. 799 00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:49,359 Speaker 1: And look for every font we can carve it out. 800 00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:52,400 Speaker 1: For the farmers. I've heard it all before. Listen, No, finally, 801 00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:55,480 Speaker 1: one person by the entire till one farmer out there 802 00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:58,000 Speaker 1: who deserves it. Look, do a whole farmer carve out. 803 00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:00,239 Speaker 1: I don't care. These are the types of people where 804 00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:03,160 Speaker 1: I do believe at this point that even with all 805 00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:05,080 Speaker 1: the legal maneuvers, like with the roth ir in there, 806 00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:06,759 Speaker 1: there's always just going to be people out there who 807 00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:09,080 Speaker 1: do something like this skin and there's just the only 808 00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:11,360 Speaker 1: way to capture it is upon death. That's it. In 809 00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:14,120 Speaker 1: order to tax the estate whenever we're talking about inheritance. 810 00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:16,600 Speaker 1: So inheritance just has to be one of the only 811 00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:18,520 Speaker 1: ways that we can do this, and we can do 812 00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:21,839 Speaker 1: it legally. It's already written into the tax code. There's 813 00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:24,840 Speaker 1: not constitutional concerns the way they are with the wealth tax. 814 00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:27,320 Speaker 1: So I think that this is probably just the absolute 815 00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:28,880 Speaker 1: best way to go. I know that'll piss a lot 816 00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:31,040 Speaker 1: of people off, but I mean, you can't look at 817 00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:33,640 Speaker 1: this and say that some money on that has to 818 00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:36,040 Speaker 1: be taxed. I'm sorry. That's the country that we live in. 819 00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:38,520 Speaker 1: It has to be, and it's just not fair. Supposed 820 00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:41,440 Speaker 1: to be a nation that believes in like dynastic wealth 821 00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:43,880 Speaker 1: and you know, I don't know it's supposed to be. 822 00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:47,279 Speaker 1: What we're all about that if your parents happen to 823 00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:49,480 Speaker 1: you know, do well, that you should be set up 824 00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:53,200 Speaker 1: for life, and that we should have this permanent plutocracy class. 825 00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:55,880 Speaker 1: And because the estate tax has been chipped away and 826 00:41:55,880 --> 00:41:58,360 Speaker 1: shipped away and hipped away, and because there are so 827 00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:01,120 Speaker 1: many loopholes also involved in these state tax that's exactly 828 00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:04,040 Speaker 1: the system that we've ultimately set up is an American aristocracy. 829 00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:07,239 Speaker 1: No bingo. Look, intergenerational wealth from coming to lower middle 830 00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:09,040 Speaker 1: class to upper middle class or upper middle class to 831 00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:11,239 Speaker 1: upper class, and we're talking about still below like the 832 00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:13,759 Speaker 1: top two percent of income. Totally cool, that's bedrock of 833 00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:15,920 Speaker 1: the American wave, life home and all that. But this 834 00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:18,680 Speaker 1: is talking about billionaires and we're talking about the American aristocracy. 835 00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:21,319 Speaker 1: That is something we are one hundred percent against here 836 00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:24,759 Speaker 1: on this show. Yes, speaking of this is the other 837 00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:30,000 Speaker 1: piece of politicians protecting billionaires and the wealthy from paying taxes. 838 00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:34,680 Speaker 1: One of the primary movers and shakers in helping to 839 00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:37,760 Speaker 1: fighting to cut taxes for the wealthy has been Congressman 840 00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:43,680 Speaker 1: Josh Gotttheimer, notably very very much in favor of aggressively 841 00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:47,520 Speaker 1: advocating for reinstating that salt tax cap. Of course, you 842 00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:50,839 Speaker 1: guys know the statistics that that would overwhelmingly benefit the 843 00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:53,680 Speaker 1: top one percent of income earners. Those are the types 844 00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:56,200 Speaker 1: of people that are very influential and sort of like 845 00:42:56,239 --> 00:42:58,799 Speaker 1: local congressional district the type of people who might be 846 00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:02,520 Speaker 1: kicking in campaign cash, might be holding local fundraisers for you, 847 00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:07,960 Speaker 1: et cetera. So conoorson. Gotdheimer actually went on CNBC to 848 00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:11,839 Speaker 1: continue to push aggressively to get that salt tax cap 849 00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:15,400 Speaker 1: back reinstated, and he actually got a tiny bit of 850 00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:17,560 Speaker 1: pushback from this. Anger. Let's stick to listen to what 851 00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:22,400 Speaker 1: happened of in terms of those leaving the state versus coming. 852 00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:25,080 Speaker 1: So you start looking at numbers like that, and then 853 00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:27,880 Speaker 1: look at the census numbers and the growth compared to 854 00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:30,120 Speaker 1: other states over that same period of time, you realize 855 00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:32,239 Speaker 1: that New Jersey and the New York and places like 856 00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:35,759 Speaker 1: that are not gaining, not gaining people. We're losing people 857 00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:39,200 Speaker 1: net net to other states, especially at the top end. 858 00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:42,360 Speaker 1: We're losing a lot of people and end businesses and jobs. 859 00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:44,879 Speaker 1: So this is really about our economy. It's about making 860 00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:47,080 Speaker 1: sure we make things more affordable for families so they 861 00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:50,040 Speaker 1: can stay here when they retire. And the bottom line is, 862 00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:52,799 Speaker 1: I believe we're going to fight for and get a 863 00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:57,040 Speaker 1: salt get the full reinstatement of the salt deduction when 864 00:43:57,080 --> 00:43:59,200 Speaker 1: all things are said and done, if we go forward 865 00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:05,640 Speaker 1: with this package on reconciliation. So what was notable about 866 00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:08,040 Speaker 1: that is, first she did actually push him on a 867 00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:11,400 Speaker 1: couple of questions. But then while he's talking there for 868 00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:13,919 Speaker 1: those of you guys who are listening, they actually throw 869 00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:17,720 Speaker 1: up a graphic that accurately portrays who the salt tax 870 00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:20,800 Speaker 1: cap would benefit. So while he's out there like making 871 00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:22,520 Speaker 1: the case that oh, this is going to be great, 872 00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:25,319 Speaker 1: class middle class tacts good, this would be good for 873 00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:27,239 Speaker 1: you know, build boulstring the middle class in the state 874 00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:31,360 Speaker 1: of New Jersey. Even CNBC is kind of like passive 875 00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:35,160 Speaker 1: aggressively calling bullshit on his talking points, there by putting 876 00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:38,040 Speaker 1: up a graphic on the screen that shows no, actually, 877 00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:41,719 Speaker 1: over overwhelmingly this is going to benefit the top one 878 00:44:41,719 --> 00:44:43,960 Speaker 1: percent of incomery. Oh yeah, we've I mean I could 879 00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:46,160 Speaker 1: put the graph up a million times. We already have. 880 00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:48,120 Speaker 1: In terms of the people who this benefits is people 881 00:44:48,239 --> 00:44:50,080 Speaker 1: make over a million dollars. I mean you can. And 882 00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:52,959 Speaker 1: there I always get contacted by like some guy who 883 00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:55,239 Speaker 1: makes like three hundred grand or something. It lives in 884 00:44:55,239 --> 00:44:56,960 Speaker 1: New jer He's like, do you have any idea how 885 00:44:57,160 --> 00:44:59,560 Speaker 1: expensive it is to live in northern New Jersey? And 886 00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:00,920 Speaker 1: you know, so are going to be okay, I do 887 00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:02,880 Speaker 1: generally feel for you. I do also think that the 888 00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:06,239 Speaker 1: extra twenty thousand dollars or whatever they're combined with the 889 00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:09,440 Speaker 1: policy which you're going to benefit multimillionaires to the tune 890 00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:13,279 Speaker 1: of millions of dollars in their taxes. Well, I'm sorry, Andy, 891 00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:15,000 Speaker 1: if you want to change the tax code to benefit you, 892 00:45:15,239 --> 00:45:17,640 Speaker 1: eye before that. But this is the thing, which is 893 00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:21,120 Speaker 1: this is overwhelmingly a gift to the top one percent 894 00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:24,120 Speaker 1: of New York and California. Call it for what it is, 895 00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:26,480 Speaker 1: and it just so happens the Speaker of the House 896 00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:29,840 Speaker 1: of the Democratic Party is from San Francisco, which is 897 00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:32,480 Speaker 1: one of the overwhelming places where the salt tax production 898 00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:36,600 Speaker 1: is overwhelmingly beneficial, And the majority leader is from New 899 00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:39,360 Speaker 1: York State, which is another place where the salt tax 900 00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:42,840 Speaker 1: is usually beneficial. I just wonder why this happens to 901 00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:45,719 Speaker 1: be in our debate. But Crystal, you flagged this too 902 00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:47,759 Speaker 1: around who exactly has done a little bit of and 903 00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:50,600 Speaker 1: about face on this and it's kind of nuts. So 904 00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:53,000 Speaker 1: gives me no pleasure to report on this one. So 905 00:45:53,320 --> 00:45:56,040 Speaker 1: Bernie Sanders had actually talked about this before in a 906 00:45:56,080 --> 00:45:58,440 Speaker 1: previous interview. Let's sake listen to what he said explicitly 907 00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:01,959 Speaker 1: about the salt tax, storing the state and local tax 908 00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:04,719 Speaker 1: deduction the salt which is a text break for rich 909 00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:09,560 Speaker 1: people in blue states. You don't support that, No, what 910 00:46:09,640 --> 00:46:12,040 Speaker 1: do you think if Democrats bring that back? It sends 911 00:46:12,120 --> 00:46:16,200 Speaker 1: a terrible, terrible message. So, ultimately, what you have got 912 00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:18,720 Speaker 1: to do in it? And famnus to Schumer and Pelosi. 913 00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:24,920 Speaker 1: It is hard when you have tiny margins, but you 914 00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:27,839 Speaker 1: have got to make a clear which side you are on. 915 00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:34,439 Speaker 1: And Crystal, so what is in his new budget? Let's 916 00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:37,440 Speaker 1: put this up there on the screen. It's Bernie himself 917 00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:42,720 Speaker 1: who's actually included the salt tax. Yeah, salting the wounds, 918 00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:49,919 Speaker 1: salt deduction relief included, and Bernie Sanders' budget proposal after 919 00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:55,160 Speaker 1: him saying accurately that it sends a terrible, terrible message 920 00:46:55,200 --> 00:46:58,239 Speaker 1: about which side the Democratic Party is on. And look, 921 00:46:58,719 --> 00:47:01,480 Speaker 1: this isn't a done deal yet. But there's also a 922 00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:05,480 Speaker 1: story here about like Gotttheimer and the other salt tax 923 00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:08,920 Speaker 1: caucus bitch headline on this. They were yeah, I mean 924 00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:11,440 Speaker 1: no salt, no dice. I think that's what Gottheimer or 925 00:47:11,440 --> 00:47:15,360 Speaker 1: one of his accolytes said about this tax. And Progressives 926 00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:18,320 Speaker 1: initially drew a pretty firm line and we're clearly opposed 927 00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:20,200 Speaker 1: to this, and it seemed like it was going to be, 928 00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:23,000 Speaker 1: you know, an area of some tension and friction and 929 00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:24,719 Speaker 1: that we're going to have to have some kind of 930 00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:28,120 Speaker 1: a public debate about whether this ultimately gets included. But 931 00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:32,760 Speaker 1: you know, it appears that they are beginning to cave 932 00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:36,160 Speaker 1: on this, and so again it's just this asymmetry of 933 00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:38,960 Speaker 1: the right wing Democrats willing to go so hard, and 934 00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:43,280 Speaker 1: when they do go so hard, they win, and the progressives, 935 00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:46,600 Speaker 1: you know, they they may say they need this or that, 936 00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:49,440 Speaker 1: or we need climate change this, or we need we 937 00:47:49,520 --> 00:47:52,799 Speaker 1: definitely need the reconciliation bill to be tied together with 938 00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:56,440 Speaker 1: the infrastructure package is a perfect recent example. And then 939 00:47:56,440 --> 00:47:59,160 Speaker 1: when Biden gets pushed on that, when he initially takes 940 00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:01,759 Speaker 1: the correct position from the progressive point of view of 941 00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:05,960 Speaker 1: these things got to be tied together, he instantly caves 942 00:48:06,040 --> 00:48:08,399 Speaker 1: to not just the right wing Democrats, but instantly caves 943 00:48:08,440 --> 00:48:11,280 Speaker 1: the Republicans on those things. So all of this idea 944 00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:13,919 Speaker 1: of like, oh, procrassos we promising you've got so much 945 00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:16,719 Speaker 1: influence in this administration. Just look at all these Look 946 00:48:16,719 --> 00:48:18,880 Speaker 1: we've patted you on the head with a nice little tweet. 947 00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:20,879 Speaker 1: Run Clean sent out a nice tweet about you. Don't 948 00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:23,960 Speaker 1: you feel influential? Don't you feel powerful? Ultimately, when it 949 00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:26,399 Speaker 1: comes down to it, it seems like there are very 950 00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:28,799 Speaker 1: few wins here. And that's before even talking about like 951 00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:33,520 Speaker 1: minimum wage hike gone nowhere to be found, public option 952 00:48:33,920 --> 00:48:37,000 Speaker 1: gone nowhere to be found. Now they're trying to act 953 00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:39,840 Speaker 1: like if they managed to get the Medicare age lowered 954 00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:43,120 Speaker 1: by five years, that that's some gigantic win, and would 955 00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:45,560 Speaker 1: it be an improvement. Yeah, that's an improvement. But let's 956 00:48:45,560 --> 00:48:48,400 Speaker 1: not pretend, when you know, Medicare for All was whatever 957 00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:51,360 Speaker 1: we was talking about just a year prior, that this 958 00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:55,000 Speaker 1: is anything approaching what is required in the moment or 959 00:48:55,080 --> 00:48:58,839 Speaker 1: what you know, what Americans need and what the left 960 00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:01,920 Speaker 1: has stood for. Just one more good illustration of power, 961 00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:04,800 Speaker 1: one more sad example of that. And actually it fits 962 00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:07,279 Speaker 1: in a way with our with what we wanted to 963 00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:09,799 Speaker 1: talk about next, which is the passing of American hero 964 00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:14,279 Speaker 1: Mike Ravel who certainly was willing to go against the 965 00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:17,239 Speaker 1: grain and push power and do things that were very 966 00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:20,640 Speaker 1: uncomfortable for his own side. It's like going into the Senate, 967 00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:22,680 Speaker 1: you know, the first time you get there, you're all excited, 968 00:49:22,760 --> 00:49:24,879 Speaker 1: My god, how did I ever get here? Then about 969 00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:26,719 Speaker 1: six months later you say, how the hell did the 970 00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:30,200 Speaker 1: rest of them get here? And I got to tell you, 971 00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:33,320 Speaker 1: after standing up with them, some of these people frightened me. 972 00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:37,680 Speaker 1: They frightened me. When you have mainline candidates to turn 973 00:49:37,719 --> 00:49:40,400 Speaker 1: around and say that there's nothing off the table with 974 00:49:40,520 --> 00:49:45,319 Speaker 1: respect thereon, that's code for using newkes nuclear devices. I 975 00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:47,240 Speaker 1: got to tell you, I'm president of the United States. 976 00:49:47,640 --> 00:49:51,799 Speaker 1: There will be no preemptive wars with nuclear devices. In 977 00:49:51,840 --> 00:49:54,520 Speaker 1: my mind, it's in Morrow, and it's been in Morrow 978 00:49:54,560 --> 00:49:57,960 Speaker 1: for the last fifty years as part of American foreign policy. 979 00:49:58,040 --> 00:50:01,839 Speaker 1: Let's use a little moderator discretion here. That's a weighty charge. 980 00:50:01,840 --> 00:50:06,520 Speaker 1: Who on this stage exactly tonight worries you so much? Well, 981 00:50:06,560 --> 00:50:09,439 Speaker 1: I would say the top tier ones, the top tier ones. 982 00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:12,600 Speaker 1: They've made statements. Oh Joe, I'll include you too. You 983 00:50:12,680 --> 00:50:14,680 Speaker 1: have a certain arrogance. You want to you want to 984 00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:17,399 Speaker 1: tell the Iraqis how to run their country. I gotta 985 00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:20,359 Speaker 1: tell you we should just play get out, Just played 986 00:50:20,440 --> 00:50:23,000 Speaker 1: get out. It's their country. They're asking us to leave, 987 00:50:23,160 --> 00:50:27,120 Speaker 1: and we insist on staying there, and why not get out? 988 00:50:27,480 --> 00:50:29,080 Speaker 1: What harm is it going to do? Oh that you 989 00:50:29,160 --> 00:50:32,400 Speaker 1: hear the statement, Well, my god, these soldiers will have 990 00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:36,920 Speaker 1: died in vain. The entire deaths of Vietnam died in vain, 991 00:50:38,040 --> 00:50:40,799 Speaker 1: and they're dying in Vain right this very second. You 992 00:50:40,840 --> 00:50:43,560 Speaker 1: know what's worse than a soldier dying in vain is 993 00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:48,439 Speaker 1: more soldiers dying in vain. That's what little taste there 994 00:50:48,800 --> 00:50:54,000 Speaker 1: of the total passionate moral clarity that centeror Mike Gravell 995 00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:58,319 Speaker 1: had didn't care who he made uncomfortable, didn't care whether it, 996 00:50:58,719 --> 00:51:01,319 Speaker 1: you know, went again Joe Biden, the estalia he called 997 00:51:01,320 --> 00:51:04,640 Speaker 1: on Joe Biden as well in those debates, Hillary Clinton, 998 00:51:04,719 --> 00:51:10,319 Speaker 1: Barack Obama. Totally fearless. And by the way, Sager, it's 999 00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:14,799 Speaker 1: fifty years ago to day that Mike Gravel read the 1000 00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:18,280 Speaker 1: Pentagon papers on the Senate floor into the Congressional record. 1001 00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:22,480 Speaker 1: The Nixon administration had tried to blog there was a 1002 00:51:22,600 --> 00:51:25,200 Speaker 1: Supreme Court case. New York Times was moving forward with 1003 00:51:25,239 --> 00:51:28,000 Speaker 1: publishing some of these memos. I mean, this was really 1004 00:51:28,560 --> 00:51:32,799 Speaker 1: a look at exactly what normally gets hidden from the 1005 00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:37,879 Speaker 1: public of how these incredibly significant war making decisions were made. 1006 00:51:37,960 --> 00:51:40,040 Speaker 1: One of the things that was revealed is basically like 1007 00:51:40,440 --> 00:51:44,520 Speaker 1: there was no debate effectively within the administration over like, well, 1008 00:51:44,600 --> 00:51:46,759 Speaker 1: should we even be doing this? It was just a 1009 00:51:46,840 --> 00:51:48,920 Speaker 1: total assumption that of course we have to be there, 1010 00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:51,480 Speaker 1: of course we have to spend all these lives and 1011 00:51:51,680 --> 00:51:55,560 Speaker 1: this treasure out of this you know, foolish hypothesis about 1012 00:51:55,760 --> 00:51:59,040 Speaker 1: the Domino effect and how ultimately communism would sweep throughout 1013 00:51:59,080 --> 00:52:01,000 Speaker 1: Asia and then to your and be the end of 1014 00:52:01,000 --> 00:52:07,200 Speaker 1: the world. So an absolutely fearless econoclast. I was a 1015 00:52:07,200 --> 00:52:09,160 Speaker 1: little bit pissed off about the way that. I don't 1016 00:52:09,160 --> 00:52:11,560 Speaker 1: know if you read any of the mainstream obituaries, but 1017 00:52:11,600 --> 00:52:15,160 Speaker 1: they all painted him as like this weirdo, gad fly crank, 1018 00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:18,520 Speaker 1: et cetera. And that's the danger of if you dare 1019 00:52:18,600 --> 00:52:21,320 Speaker 1: to go up and challenge Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton 1020 00:52:21,360 --> 00:52:24,760 Speaker 1: and Barack Obama and powers that be within the Democratic Party, 1021 00:52:25,160 --> 00:52:28,960 Speaker 1: then even to your dying day, they will smear and 1022 00:52:29,040 --> 00:52:32,160 Speaker 1: dismiss and try to marginalize you as a kook. No, 1023 00:52:32,400 --> 00:52:34,360 Speaker 1: it's very sad. He did a heroic thing with the 1024 00:52:34,400 --> 00:52:37,640 Speaker 1: Pentagon papers. And you're right. I mean, you know, I 1025 00:52:37,640 --> 00:52:40,560 Speaker 1: interviewed him. I I think we both did it twice. Yeah, 1026 00:52:40,600 --> 00:52:42,640 Speaker 1: while he was around, he was just so fun to 1027 00:52:42,680 --> 00:52:45,200 Speaker 1: talk to. He was a hilarious guy too, in terms 1028 00:52:45,239 --> 00:52:48,200 Speaker 1: of getting into contact with him and seeing exactly would 1029 00:52:48,400 --> 00:52:50,160 Speaker 1: he had some real thoughts about Pete Booteraget. Yeah, he 1030 00:52:50,239 --> 00:52:53,440 Speaker 1: left it all out on the table. I believe he 1031 00:52:53,520 --> 00:52:55,879 Speaker 1: said he's like, I just think he's young and he's gay. 1032 00:52:56,000 --> 00:52:58,000 Speaker 1: He got himself in trouble for that one. I know 1033 00:52:58,080 --> 00:53:00,640 Speaker 1: the Grivell kids were very mad at him, but look 1034 00:53:00,680 --> 00:53:03,480 Speaker 1: that's hoo he was. He said it exactly how it was, 1035 00:53:03,640 --> 00:53:06,319 Speaker 1: and he called out everybody. He was somebody who it 1036 00:53:06,400 --> 00:53:08,759 Speaker 1: was a real joy in order to talk to. And 1037 00:53:08,920 --> 00:53:11,920 Speaker 1: I think those kids actually deserve a legacy as well 1038 00:53:11,920 --> 00:53:14,759 Speaker 1: as that documentary. We had the documentarian on on Rising. Yeah, 1039 00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:17,640 Speaker 1: I forget his name, but American Gadfly, and I know 1040 00:53:17,680 --> 00:53:19,680 Speaker 1: that everybody that you can go watch that right now 1041 00:53:19,719 --> 00:53:21,719 Speaker 1: if you want to learn a little bit more about him. 1042 00:53:21,719 --> 00:53:23,759 Speaker 1: So it's a fascinating thing to see. I think how 1043 00:53:23,800 --> 00:53:27,279 Speaker 1: old was he, like ninety two, ninety one, ninety one 1044 00:53:27,360 --> 00:53:28,960 Speaker 1: years old and still able to have an impact on 1045 00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:32,400 Speaker 1: American politics so many years later. Credible thing and inspire 1046 00:53:32,440 --> 00:53:36,200 Speaker 1: an entire generation. Yeah, he was aged ninety one, died 1047 00:53:36,239 --> 00:53:39,280 Speaker 1: at home with his family. I feel like you incredibly 1048 00:53:39,360 --> 00:53:42,719 Speaker 1: lucky to have gotten spoke with speak with him while 1049 00:53:42,760 --> 00:53:44,719 Speaker 1: he was still here. And I mean he was very 1050 00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:47,920 Speaker 1: he was very sharp and cogent in our interview. Oh absolutely, 1051 00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:50,160 Speaker 1: this is like a year ago. Yeah, in our interview 1052 00:53:50,200 --> 00:53:53,040 Speaker 1: with him. And I absolutely agree with you the fact 1053 00:53:53,080 --> 00:53:55,920 Speaker 1: that you now have the Gravel Institute carrying on his 1054 00:53:55,920 --> 00:53:59,720 Speaker 1: fearless legacy that you had, you know, a younger generation 1055 00:53:59,760 --> 00:54:02,560 Speaker 1: who really learned about just how much courage this took 1056 00:54:02,600 --> 00:54:05,360 Speaker 1: and how significant this act was in American history is 1057 00:54:05,360 --> 00:54:10,160 Speaker 1: a profound service. So rest and power microvalue will absolutely 1058 00:54:10,400 --> 00:54:13,400 Speaker 1: be missed for legendary moments like the one that we 1059 00:54:13,480 --> 00:54:15,920 Speaker 1: just played. You. Yeah, that's right. Wow, You guys must 1060 00:54:15,960 --> 00:54:17,799 Speaker 1: really like listening to our voices while I know this 1061 00:54:17,840 --> 00:54:20,600 Speaker 1: is annoying, instead of making you listen to a Viagric commercial. 1062 00:54:20,800 --> 00:54:22,960 Speaker 1: When you're done, check out the other podcast I do 1063 00:54:23,040 --> 00:54:25,399 Speaker 1: with Marshal Kassoff called The Realignment. We talk a lot 1064 00:54:25,480 --> 00:54:29,120 Speaker 1: about the deeper issues that are changing realigning in American society. 1065 00:54:29,280 --> 00:54:31,560 Speaker 1: You always need more Crystal and Zag in your daily lives. 1066 00:54:31,680 --> 00:54:34,480 Speaker 1: Take care, guys, All right, Crystal, what are you taking 1067 00:54:34,480 --> 00:54:36,399 Speaker 1: a look at today? So? I don't know if y'all 1068 00:54:36,400 --> 00:54:39,040 Speaker 1: have noticed, but the modern GOP doesn't really stand for 1069 00:54:39,040 --> 00:54:41,320 Speaker 1: a whole lot of anything these days. I mean, quietly, 1070 00:54:41,440 --> 00:54:43,800 Speaker 1: they certainly still fight with the same corporate tax cuts 1071 00:54:43,800 --> 00:54:47,160 Speaker 1: and neocon wars that they have long supported, but publicly 1072 00:54:47,160 --> 00:54:49,640 Speaker 1: they're not quite so confident about going to bat for 1073 00:54:49,680 --> 00:54:53,239 Speaker 1: the economic protection of the wealthiest among us. Instead, they've 1074 00:54:53,320 --> 00:54:56,560 Speaker 1: really staked their entire political project on one big theme, 1075 00:54:57,040 --> 00:54:59,640 Speaker 1: cancel culture, the idea that all of these stick in 1076 00:54:59,640 --> 00:55:02,840 Speaker 1: the muddle. Liberals are using authoritarian tactics to silence debate, 1077 00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:06,279 Speaker 1: ban books, pull Twitter accounts, and fire wrong thinkers. So 1078 00:55:06,360 --> 00:55:09,279 Speaker 1: I was shocked, shocked to see the right leap in 1079 00:55:09,440 --> 00:55:13,120 Speaker 1: lockstep to cancel an American athlete for daring to protest. 1080 00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:16,560 Speaker 1: Just kidding. Of course, hypocrisy on speech issues is literally 1081 00:55:16,600 --> 00:55:19,120 Speaker 1: part for the course for all partisans who fully support 1082 00:55:19,160 --> 00:55:22,840 Speaker 1: censorship so long as it only applies to their ideological enemies. 1083 00:55:23,000 --> 00:55:26,760 Speaker 1: So here's the story. This time Olympic hammer thrower Gwen Berry. 1084 00:55:26,840 --> 00:55:28,920 Speaker 1: She secured her spot on the US Olympic team with 1085 00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:32,000 Speaker 1: a bronze medal finish. As the national anthem played while 1086 00:55:32,040 --> 00:55:34,000 Speaker 1: Barry was on the podium, she turned her back to 1087 00:55:34,040 --> 00:55:36,120 Speaker 1: the flag and towards the stands and placed a T 1088 00:55:36,280 --> 00:55:40,240 Speaker 1: shirt over her head that read activist athlete. Now, apparently 1089 00:55:40,239 --> 00:55:43,120 Speaker 1: the action wasn't actually fully planned. Barry had thought that 1090 00:55:43,120 --> 00:55:45,880 Speaker 1: the anthem would be played before she took the podium. 1091 00:55:46,160 --> 00:55:48,720 Speaker 1: In any case, she explained her actions by saying that quote, 1092 00:55:48,880 --> 00:55:51,279 Speaker 1: my purpose in my mission is bigger than sports. I'm 1093 00:55:51,280 --> 00:55:54,320 Speaker 1: here to represent those who died due to systemic racism. 1094 00:55:54,560 --> 00:55:57,239 Speaker 1: That's the important part. That's why I'm going. That's why 1095 00:55:57,239 --> 00:56:00,399 Speaker 1: I'm here today. Now, maybe you support the statement, maybe 1096 00:56:00,400 --> 00:56:02,719 Speaker 1: you don't. Here's the thing about the First Amendment. You 1097 00:56:02,760 --> 00:56:04,400 Speaker 1: don't have to like what a person is saying or 1098 00:56:04,440 --> 00:56:06,919 Speaker 1: support the cause they're backing to believe in their right 1099 00:56:07,040 --> 00:56:10,480 Speaker 1: to protest. But of course, some of the very same 1100 00:56:10,520 --> 00:56:13,200 Speaker 1: people who appear in Fox News segment after Fox News 1101 00:56:13,239 --> 00:56:17,400 Speaker 1: segment hand ringing about censorship immediately melted down over Barry's 1102 00:56:17,400 --> 00:56:21,000 Speaker 1: protests and called for her to be canceled. For example, 1103 00:56:21,280 --> 00:56:23,960 Speaker 1: here is Dan Crenshaw calling for Barry to be banned 1104 00:56:24,000 --> 00:56:26,480 Speaker 1: from the Olympic team. She turned her back on the 1105 00:56:26,520 --> 00:56:30,040 Speaker 1: flag during the anthem, and she also put a black 1106 00:56:30,120 --> 00:56:35,560 Speaker 1: T shirt over her face that said activist athlete. We 1107 00:56:35,600 --> 00:56:38,920 Speaker 1: don't need any more activist athletes. She should be removed 1108 00:56:38,920 --> 00:56:41,279 Speaker 1: from the team. The entire point of the Olympic team 1109 00:56:41,360 --> 00:56:43,960 Speaker 1: is to represent the United States of America. It's the 1110 00:56:44,120 --> 00:56:47,719 Speaker 1: entire point. Okay, So you know, it's one thing when 1111 00:56:47,719 --> 00:56:50,280 Speaker 1: these NBA players do it, Okay, fine, we'll just stop watching. 1112 00:56:50,640 --> 00:56:53,680 Speaker 1: But now the Olympic team, and it's multiple cases of this, 1113 00:56:54,480 --> 00:56:56,840 Speaker 1: they should be removed. That should be The bare minimum 1114 00:56:56,880 --> 00:57:03,200 Speaker 1: requirement is that you believe in the country representing but love. Now. 1115 00:57:03,280 --> 00:57:05,360 Speaker 1: I am old enough to remember a time when Congressman 1116 00:57:05,400 --> 00:57:09,200 Speaker 1: Crenshaw was distraught about cancel culture. Can throw his tweet 1117 00:57:09,239 --> 00:57:12,200 Speaker 1: there up on the screen. He's passionately arguing, as he 1118 00:57:12,239 --> 00:57:15,640 Speaker 1: does here, that we need to cancel cancel culture. He 1119 00:57:15,760 --> 00:57:17,800 Speaker 1: was far from the only hypocrite here, though. Here's Mike 1120 00:57:17,840 --> 00:57:21,240 Speaker 1: Huckabee with a similar sentiment, saying that Barry's protest was 1121 00:57:21,560 --> 00:57:25,320 Speaker 1: disgusting and also calling for her band, saying she doesn't 1122 00:57:25,360 --> 00:57:27,840 Speaker 1: deserve to wear the same flag as those who died 1123 00:57:27,880 --> 00:57:31,320 Speaker 1: for her arrogant, childish stunt. What can we do to 1124 00:57:31,320 --> 00:57:35,120 Speaker 1: push back against this authoritarian instinct to silence all dissenters, Well, 1125 00:57:35,280 --> 00:57:39,440 Speaker 1: let's ask Governor Huckabee. Brandon writes, By Kuckabee, what do 1126 00:57:39,480 --> 00:57:42,040 Speaker 1: you think it's going to take to reverse the cancel 1127 00:57:42,760 --> 00:57:46,720 Speaker 1: culture trend? You know, I'm going to tell you it's 1128 00:57:46,880 --> 00:57:50,600 Speaker 1: it's simpler than people think it is. It's standing up 1129 00:57:50,680 --> 00:57:56,600 Speaker 1: and saying no, Mmm, thank you for that, Governor. That's 1130 00:57:56,680 --> 00:58:05,080 Speaker 1: the wrong camera, guys, what's going on today? Mmm? Ready, 1131 00:58:06,280 --> 00:58:09,760 Speaker 1: m thank you for that, Governor. Naturally, Peter Doocey was 1132 00:58:09,800 --> 00:58:11,840 Speaker 1: already at the White House press briefing with a question 1133 00:58:11,920 --> 00:58:14,560 Speaker 1: on gwen Berry to feed into Fox's latest digition to 1134 00:58:14,640 --> 00:58:18,440 Speaker 1: the culture war. And when Barry, who hopes to represent 1135 00:58:18,480 --> 00:58:21,840 Speaker 1: the United States as an Olympian on the hammer throwing 1136 00:58:22,440 --> 00:58:25,000 Speaker 1: the events won of Bron's medal at the trials, and 1137 00:58:25,040 --> 00:58:27,520 Speaker 1: then she turned her back upon the flag while the 1138 00:58:27,640 --> 00:58:30,920 Speaker 1: hanthem played, does President Bid think that is appropriate behavior 1139 00:58:30,960 --> 00:58:35,960 Speaker 1: for someone who hopes to represent Team USA. I mean, 1140 00:58:36,000 --> 00:58:38,560 Speaker 1: it's not like there's anything important going on, guys, like 1141 00:58:38,680 --> 00:58:41,520 Speaker 1: bombs being dropped in Syria, numbers of Hungary Americans suddenly 1142 00:58:41,560 --> 00:58:44,800 Speaker 1: jumping upwards, or preparations underway to literally sell off the 1143 00:58:44,880 --> 00:58:48,640 Speaker 1: nation's public infrastructure. All of these instances of hypocrisy, though, 1144 00:58:48,680 --> 00:58:50,760 Speaker 1: they really just give away the game. They aren't opposed 1145 00:58:50,760 --> 00:58:52,760 Speaker 1: to cancel culture and censorship. They just want to be 1146 00:58:52,760 --> 00:58:54,560 Speaker 1: the ones who are doing the censoring. And for most 1147 00:58:54,560 --> 00:58:57,280 Speaker 1: of American history, conservatives have in fact been in charge 1148 00:58:57,280 --> 00:58:59,240 Speaker 1: of doing most of the censoring, and the fact that 1149 00:58:59,280 --> 00:59:01,880 Speaker 1: there's any slip in this power is now caused for 1150 00:59:01,960 --> 00:59:04,840 Speaker 1: a complete meltdown. But liberals are not getting off the 1151 00:59:04,880 --> 00:59:07,640 Speaker 1: hook in this monologue either. So over on YouTube, right 1152 00:59:07,640 --> 00:59:10,600 Speaker 1: wing Watch, a channel that reposts content from right wing sources, 1153 00:59:10,800 --> 00:59:14,520 Speaker 1: an attempt to expose conspiracy theories and fringe views and bigotry. 1154 00:59:14,760 --> 00:59:17,240 Speaker 1: They were permanently banned from YouTube for a few hours 1155 00:59:17,320 --> 00:59:20,800 Speaker 1: yesterday before ultimately being reinstated. Now, first of all, let 1156 00:59:20,840 --> 00:59:22,680 Speaker 1: me just say, given all that we just discussed with 1157 00:59:22,680 --> 00:59:25,800 Speaker 1: gwen Berry, wasn't holding my breath for principled conservatives to 1158 00:59:25,800 --> 00:59:28,640 Speaker 1: complain about the censorship and they didn't. And second of all, 1159 00:59:28,760 --> 00:59:30,760 Speaker 1: let me make the obvious point that anyone on the 1160 00:59:30,840 --> 00:59:33,520 Speaker 1: pro censorship left who thought this crop wouldn't come for 1161 00:59:33,600 --> 00:59:36,640 Speaker 1: them too was a full right Wing Watch having their 1162 00:59:36,680 --> 00:59:39,800 Speaker 1: channel temporarily banned is far from the first instance of 1163 00:59:39,880 --> 00:59:43,200 Speaker 1: left content being pulled from these platforms. But in addition, 1164 00:59:43,640 --> 00:59:47,280 Speaker 1: right Wing watches brief cancelation presents a vexing and confusing problem. 1165 00:59:47,360 --> 00:59:50,920 Speaker 1: You see, the entirety of their channel was simply reposting 1166 00:59:51,000 --> 00:59:55,200 Speaker 1: verbatim right wing content from other locations, and it is 1167 00:59:55,200 --> 00:59:57,120 Speaker 1: the position of quite a few liberals that while the 1168 00:59:57,280 --> 01:00:01,320 Speaker 1: original right wing content should be banned, the repost of 1169 01:00:01,480 --> 01:00:05,480 Speaker 1: that very same content by right Wing Watch should for 1170 01:00:05,520 --> 01:00:08,400 Speaker 1: some reason be allowed. So again, by this thinking, the 1171 01:00:08,800 --> 01:00:11,360 Speaker 1: good guys should be allowed to post the very same 1172 01:00:11,400 --> 01:00:15,120 Speaker 1: content that is disallowed for the bad guys. Now, I 1173 01:00:15,200 --> 01:00:18,200 Speaker 1: don't personally feel excited about letting our tech oligarchs make 1174 01:00:18,240 --> 01:00:21,400 Speaker 1: these kinds of determinations of moral character and of intent. 1175 01:00:22,080 --> 01:00:26,280 Speaker 1: For the right, they take the exact opposite position. They're 1176 01:00:26,280 --> 01:00:29,320 Speaker 1: either silent or happy that right Wing Watch was temporarily banned, 1177 01:00:29,520 --> 01:00:32,240 Speaker 1: but they would be outraged and going on Fox News 1178 01:00:32,280 --> 01:00:36,320 Speaker 1: to complain if the original content were banned again. It's 1179 01:00:36,400 --> 01:00:39,920 Speaker 1: the same content, just posted by different channels. So what 1180 01:00:39,960 --> 01:00:41,800 Speaker 1: I've come to realize with all of this is that 1181 01:00:41,920 --> 01:00:45,080 Speaker 1: actually liberals and conservatives have exactly the same position on 1182 01:00:45,120 --> 01:00:47,080 Speaker 1: the issue of cancel culture. They like it when it 1183 01:00:47,120 --> 01:00:49,080 Speaker 1: serves them, and they hate it when it doesn't. The 1184 01:00:49,200 --> 01:00:52,040 Speaker 1: Right happens to be savvy enough to adopt the language 1185 01:00:52,040 --> 01:00:56,600 Speaker 1: of freedom while pushing for authoritarianism. Liberals are more honest 1186 01:00:56,680 --> 01:00:59,560 Speaker 1: that they actually do want censorship by big tech of 1187 01:00:59,600 --> 01:01:03,320 Speaker 1: their ideaological opponents, but they offer a more politically stupid 1188 01:01:03,360 --> 01:01:06,120 Speaker 1: framing of that same position. So it all comes down 1189 01:01:06,120 --> 01:01:08,880 Speaker 1: to this. If you are confident that, given a free 1190 01:01:08,920 --> 01:01:12,400 Speaker 1: and fair hearing, your ideas will actually win, then fight 1191 01:01:12,480 --> 01:01:15,600 Speaker 1: for openness the right to put those ideas in front 1192 01:01:15,640 --> 01:01:18,640 Speaker 1: of the American people on an equal playing field, the 1193 01:01:18,840 --> 01:01:21,160 Speaker 1: terrible instinct to try to work the rest and rig 1194 01:01:21,200 --> 01:01:23,480 Speaker 1: the rules that comes from a lack of confidence that 1195 01:01:23,520 --> 01:01:26,880 Speaker 1: you're offering anything that can stand on its own merits. 1196 01:01:27,320 --> 01:01:31,000 Speaker 1: It says everything about the bankruptcy of mainline Democrats and 1197 01:01:31,080 --> 01:01:34,760 Speaker 1: mainline Republicans that they would rather silence dissent than have 1198 01:01:34,840 --> 01:01:37,960 Speaker 1: to actually make a compelling case. And I thought, this 1199 01:01:38,120 --> 01:01:40,840 Speaker 1: brief thing with the right wing one more thing, I 1200 01:01:40,880 --> 01:01:43,240 Speaker 1: promise just wanted to make sure you knew about my 1201 01:01:43,360 --> 01:01:46,480 Speaker 1: podcast with Kyle Kolinski. It's called Crystal, Kyle and Friends, 1202 01:01:46,480 --> 01:01:49,440 Speaker 1: where we do long form interviews with people like Noam Chomsky, 1203 01:01:49,600 --> 01:01:52,800 Speaker 1: Cornell West, and Glenn Greenwald. You can listen on any 1204 01:01:52,880 --> 01:01:56,280 Speaker 1: podcast platform, or you can subscribe over on substack to 1205 01:01:56,280 --> 01:01:58,320 Speaker 1: get the video a day early. We're going to stop 1206 01:01:58,320 --> 01:02:01,320 Speaker 1: bugging you now, enjoy Sager, What are you looking at? 1207 01:02:01,600 --> 01:02:03,240 Speaker 1: Part of the reason that I love doing this show 1208 01:02:03,320 --> 01:02:05,120 Speaker 1: is that Crystal and I are truly free of the 1209 01:02:05,200 --> 01:02:07,040 Speaker 1: day to day news cycle and if we want and 1210 01:02:07,120 --> 01:02:09,840 Speaker 1: don't have to rely on clicks or algorithms to ensure 1211 01:02:09,880 --> 01:02:12,080 Speaker 1: our success. Instead, it gives us the space when we 1212 01:02:12,120 --> 01:02:14,320 Speaker 1: would like to dive a little bit deeper, look at 1213 01:02:14,320 --> 01:02:16,720 Speaker 1: our politics, the state of our country, and our culture. 1214 01:02:16,880 --> 01:02:18,680 Speaker 1: Point out to all of you some of the reasons 1215 01:02:18,680 --> 01:02:20,200 Speaker 1: that all of us are living life the way that 1216 01:02:20,240 --> 01:02:22,760 Speaker 1: we are. Why are we so frustrated? What needs to 1217 01:02:22,800 --> 01:02:25,600 Speaker 1: be fixed? I stumbled across a quote yesterday on Instagram. 1218 01:02:25,600 --> 01:02:27,560 Speaker 1: It actually really hit home to me. I wanted to 1219 01:02:27,560 --> 01:02:29,560 Speaker 1: share it with all of you. It's an excerpt from 1220 01:02:29,600 --> 01:02:34,200 Speaker 1: The demon Haunted World by Carl Sagan in nineteen ninety five. Quote. 1221 01:02:34,240 --> 01:02:36,840 Speaker 1: I have a foreboding of an America in my children 1222 01:02:36,960 --> 01:02:39,880 Speaker 1: or grandchildren's time, when the United States is a service 1223 01:02:39,880 --> 01:02:43,680 Speaker 1: in information economy, when nearly all key manufacturing industries have 1224 01:02:43,680 --> 01:02:47,360 Speaker 1: slipped away to other countries, when awesome technological powers are 1225 01:02:47,360 --> 01:02:50,000 Speaker 1: in the hands of very few, and no one representing 1226 01:02:50,000 --> 01:02:52,960 Speaker 1: the public interests can even grasp the issues, when the 1227 01:02:53,000 --> 01:02:55,880 Speaker 1: people have lost their ability to set their own agendas 1228 01:02:55,960 --> 01:02:59,560 Speaker 1: or knowledgeably question those in authority. Adding that our critical 1229 01:02:59,560 --> 01:03:03,040 Speaker 1: faculty in decline will be unable to distinguish well between 1230 01:03:03,040 --> 01:03:06,920 Speaker 1: what feels good and what's true. We slide, almost without noticing, 1231 01:03:06,960 --> 01:03:10,440 Speaker 1: back into superstition and darkness. I truncated that quote slightly. 1232 01:03:10,560 --> 01:03:12,240 Speaker 1: I encourage you all to go read the full thing, 1233 01:03:12,520 --> 01:03:16,160 Speaker 1: but I'm just struck by how absolutely spot on that rings. 1234 01:03:16,200 --> 01:03:20,640 Speaker 1: Today we feel increasingly disconnected, consumed with short form media. 1235 01:03:20,800 --> 01:03:23,400 Speaker 1: As Carl says in there, thirty second sound bites have 1236 01:03:23,440 --> 01:03:26,280 Speaker 1: been reduced to ten. He predicted the rise of TikTok 1237 01:03:26,360 --> 01:03:29,280 Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety five, and look, I'm not a technological 1238 01:03:29,360 --> 01:03:32,760 Speaker 1: dumerist or anything, but increasingly, especially after a year of 1239 01:03:32,800 --> 01:03:35,520 Speaker 1: isolation for so many, I look around and I just 1240 01:03:35,520 --> 01:03:37,960 Speaker 1: feel like there's a tension in the air that gets thicker. 1241 01:03:38,400 --> 01:03:41,320 Speaker 1: And that's not just It turns out you can actually 1242 01:03:41,400 --> 01:03:44,640 Speaker 1: kind of quantify that the number of Americans were reporting 1243 01:03:44,720 --> 01:03:48,280 Speaker 1: lots of close friends is down dramatically. In nineteen ninety 1244 01:03:48,320 --> 01:03:50,960 Speaker 1: around the time that Carl Sagan wrote that book, thirty 1245 01:03:51,000 --> 01:03:53,880 Speaker 1: three percent of Americans said they had ten or more 1246 01:03:53,920 --> 01:03:57,440 Speaker 1: close friends, not counting relatives. The distinct minority were the 1247 01:03:57,480 --> 01:03:59,960 Speaker 1: three percent of Americans who said they only had three 1248 01:04:00,040 --> 01:04:03,520 Speaker 1: close friends, including relatives, with varying percentages that you can 1249 01:04:03,560 --> 01:04:07,120 Speaker 1: see there now. In twenty twenty one, the number of 1250 01:04:07,160 --> 01:04:10,200 Speaker 1: Americans reporting ten or more close friends that dropped to 1251 01:04:10,280 --> 01:04:14,000 Speaker 1: thirteen percent of Americans, a full twenty percent decline and 1252 01:04:14,080 --> 01:04:16,080 Speaker 1: it's not like it was spread out. The number of 1253 01:04:16,080 --> 01:04:18,720 Speaker 1: Americans who reported between six and nine friends in nineteen 1254 01:04:18,800 --> 01:04:21,040 Speaker 1: ninety is now roughly equal to the twelve percent of 1255 01:04:21,080 --> 01:04:23,720 Speaker 1: Americans in twenty twenty one who say they have none 1256 01:04:24,040 --> 01:04:26,720 Speaker 1: zero close friends. In nineteen ninety, that wasn't even a 1257 01:04:26,720 --> 01:04:30,520 Speaker 1: statistically significant category. It didn't even rate. Not many people 1258 01:04:30,560 --> 01:04:33,640 Speaker 1: even had any no close friends. So the pandemic wasn't 1259 01:04:33,640 --> 01:04:35,760 Speaker 1: the only cause. The main one seems to be this. 1260 01:04:36,200 --> 01:04:39,640 Speaker 1: Americans are working longer hours and traveling more for work 1261 01:04:39,680 --> 01:04:42,200 Speaker 1: than ever before. It seems to have come at the 1262 01:04:42,200 --> 01:04:45,440 Speaker 1: cost of maintaining close friendships those close friends who you 1263 01:04:45,480 --> 01:04:50,080 Speaker 1: do still have. Well, Statistically today you are much more 1264 01:04:50,360 --> 01:04:52,960 Speaker 1: orders of magnitude more likely to make friends at work 1265 01:04:53,120 --> 01:04:56,680 Speaker 1: than anywhere else, including school, in your neighborhood, in your 1266 01:04:56,680 --> 01:04:59,040 Speaker 1: place of worship if you attend one, or even through 1267 01:04:59,080 --> 01:05:02,360 Speaker 1: your existing friend friends. Again, I don't want to paint 1268 01:05:02,360 --> 01:05:05,200 Speaker 1: to devastating of a picture here. People still have best friends, 1269 01:05:05,320 --> 01:05:08,000 Speaker 1: many people have situational friends. But what I really see 1270 01:05:08,000 --> 01:05:10,320 Speaker 1: in the data is the total loss of community for 1271 01:05:10,360 --> 01:05:12,640 Speaker 1: a lot of Americans and the true triumph of the 1272 01:05:12,640 --> 01:05:16,760 Speaker 1: professional managerial class over everyone else. Now I am one 1273 01:05:16,800 --> 01:05:19,080 Speaker 1: of these archetypal PMC Americans in a lot of way. 1274 01:05:19,240 --> 01:05:22,080 Speaker 1: First generation American grew up in a smaller town, moved 1275 01:05:22,080 --> 01:05:24,840 Speaker 1: to a major metropolist for college, never left work in 1276 01:05:24,840 --> 01:05:27,400 Speaker 1: the service sector. All of the people that I'm friends 1277 01:05:27,440 --> 01:05:30,320 Speaker 1: with in DC generally are people I met through work 1278 01:05:30,520 --> 01:05:33,440 Speaker 1: or work related activities. This is the life of the 1279 01:05:33,440 --> 01:05:36,800 Speaker 1: cosmopolitan elite. It has been that way for decades. But 1280 01:05:36,880 --> 01:05:39,880 Speaker 1: the difference is that, unlike in nineteen ninety, the elites 1281 01:05:39,920 --> 01:05:43,400 Speaker 1: have now structured the economy even more so such that 1282 01:05:43,640 --> 01:05:46,600 Speaker 1: everybody now has to live life the way that they 1283 01:05:46,680 --> 01:05:49,600 Speaker 1: do now. I fully recogncognize that the way that I 1284 01:05:49,680 --> 01:05:52,960 Speaker 1: and many of my friends live is not for most people, 1285 01:05:53,360 --> 01:05:56,120 Speaker 1: and there is nothing wrong with that. The problem that 1286 01:05:56,160 --> 01:05:58,040 Speaker 1: we have is that because we have a top down 1287 01:05:58,080 --> 01:06:01,880 Speaker 1: economy and culture, elites have transferred their love of work 1288 01:06:02,240 --> 01:06:05,880 Speaker 1: down to people who don't necessarily want to live this way. 1289 01:06:06,080 --> 01:06:09,280 Speaker 1: They have transferred their lack of connection to geogiographical places 1290 01:06:09,400 --> 01:06:12,160 Speaker 1: to people who really enjoyed living ten miles away from 1291 01:06:12,200 --> 01:06:15,240 Speaker 1: their mom. And they have transferred their indifference to marriage 1292 01:06:15,240 --> 01:06:17,920 Speaker 1: and having kids down to many of the people who 1293 01:06:18,720 --> 01:06:21,040 Speaker 1: who want to do so much earlier than they are, 1294 01:06:21,440 --> 01:06:23,760 Speaker 1: but are not able to do so for economic reasons. 1295 01:06:23,960 --> 01:06:25,400 Speaker 1: I don't want to say any of this to bum 1296 01:06:25,400 --> 01:06:27,800 Speaker 1: you out, only to say what we have is pretty 1297 01:06:27,800 --> 01:06:29,960 Speaker 1: precious and we should fight for it, and we shouldn't 1298 01:06:29,960 --> 01:06:32,120 Speaker 1: allow people, frankly, who are like me to have all 1299 01:06:32,160 --> 01:06:34,640 Speaker 1: the power in the world. Work is important, but it 1300 01:06:34,680 --> 01:06:37,160 Speaker 1: shouldn't be everything. I mean, look, the worst times I 1301 01:06:37,280 --> 01:06:39,160 Speaker 1: ever had in life were moments where you put work 1302 01:06:39,200 --> 01:06:42,840 Speaker 1: before everything. And yet that's the value set that we've cherished, 1303 01:06:43,000 --> 01:06:46,520 Speaker 1: and we have now forced most Americans to comply and 1304 01:06:46,600 --> 01:06:49,680 Speaker 1: live their lives this way. Coming back to Carl Sagan's quote, 1305 01:06:49,760 --> 01:06:51,800 Speaker 1: I think it comments about the power in the hands 1306 01:06:51,840 --> 01:06:54,600 Speaker 1: of the few is what matters most. The keys to power, 1307 01:06:54,640 --> 01:06:58,400 Speaker 1: be it technology, government, cultural, or economic, all lie in 1308 01:06:58,440 --> 01:07:01,200 Speaker 1: the hands of fewer people than ever before in modern 1309 01:07:01,200 --> 01:07:05,440 Speaker 1: American history, and the populace is increasingly distracted to their benefit, 1310 01:07:05,760 --> 01:07:08,960 Speaker 1: watching videos and engaging in algorithms or work that adds 1311 01:07:09,040 --> 01:07:11,880 Speaker 1: billions to bottom lines, while people lose all of the 1312 01:07:11,920 --> 01:07:15,040 Speaker 1: things that make life worth living. The only way out 1313 01:07:15,080 --> 01:07:17,320 Speaker 1: of this hellish system is to change it. And the 1314 01:07:17,400 --> 01:07:19,560 Speaker 1: luck that we have is that people are there are 1315 01:07:19,640 --> 01:07:22,080 Speaker 1: enough people out there who aren't too old, who still 1316 01:07:22,080 --> 01:07:23,960 Speaker 1: have a chance. So let's just like to do what 1317 01:07:24,000 --> 01:07:26,200 Speaker 1: the boomers did. Let's just change the country to the 1318 01:07:26,240 --> 01:07:28,680 Speaker 1: way that we want it. Our lives and our happiness 1319 01:07:28,720 --> 01:07:31,240 Speaker 1: actually can literally depend on it. I thought this data 1320 01:07:31,360 --> 01:07:35,440 Speaker 1: was really interesting. Crystal about Close, Research director for the 1321 01:07:35,480 --> 01:07:39,360 Speaker 1: American Liberties American Economic Liberties Project, Matt Stoller joins US 1322 01:07:39,400 --> 01:07:42,680 Speaker 1: now to talk about that Landsmark decision in the Facebook case. 1323 01:07:42,800 --> 01:07:44,360 Speaker 1: Good to see you, Matt, Thanks for joining us, Sir, 1324 01:07:44,960 --> 01:07:47,880 Speaker 1: thanks for having me. Absolutely so we had this big 1325 01:07:47,960 --> 01:07:49,760 Speaker 1: court decision. Let's put this up there on the screen. 1326 01:07:49,840 --> 01:07:53,520 Speaker 1: Broke on CNBC yesterday. District Court who is throwing out 1327 01:07:53,560 --> 01:07:58,200 Speaker 1: the FDC and state anti trust complaints against Facebook? Facebook stock. 1328 01:07:58,280 --> 01:08:03,320 Speaker 1: Matt afterwards, client a collective one is worth now one 1329 01:08:03,840 --> 01:08:07,560 Speaker 1: trillion dollars after the US Court's dismissal of these anti 1330 01:08:07,560 --> 01:08:11,080 Speaker 1: trust lawsuits. And it was an Obama appointed judge who 1331 01:08:11,120 --> 01:08:13,680 Speaker 1: made this decision in the first place. Layout for us 1332 01:08:13,720 --> 01:08:15,760 Speaker 1: exactly what happened here? Is this the end of the 1333 01:08:15,760 --> 01:08:18,840 Speaker 1: anti trust suit against Facebook? Does the government do the 1334 01:08:18,880 --> 01:08:21,960 Speaker 1: state attorney's generals so they have the ability to appeal this? 1335 01:08:22,000 --> 01:08:24,559 Speaker 1: And then what does this generally say about the you know, 1336 01:08:24,680 --> 01:08:28,519 Speaker 1: legal legacy that a lot of establishment liberalism has left 1337 01:08:28,600 --> 01:08:36,000 Speaker 1: us on this Yeah, yeah, no, it's like one trillion dollars, 1338 01:08:36,080 --> 01:08:40,479 Speaker 1: nicely poetic because usually stocks like react, but it's not 1339 01:08:40,560 --> 01:08:45,960 Speaker 1: usually like that fun number. Yeah. So the last week 1340 01:08:46,040 --> 01:08:49,200 Speaker 1: Congress was debating. There's a context here. Last week Congress 1341 01:08:49,200 --> 01:08:52,720 Speaker 1: debated and actually the Judiciary Committee pased a bunch of laws, 1342 01:08:52,760 --> 01:08:55,720 Speaker 1: some to strengthen general purpose and anti trust laws, some 1343 01:08:55,840 --> 01:08:58,600 Speaker 1: to actually take on big tech directly, and all the 1344 01:08:58,640 --> 01:09:02,759 Speaker 1: bills passed just thee But there's this debate in Congress 1345 01:09:02,800 --> 01:09:05,720 Speaker 1: about whether our laws are strong enough to deal with 1346 01:09:06,320 --> 01:09:09,719 Speaker 1: the tech firms rit broadly, but also monopolies more generally. 1347 01:09:10,120 --> 01:09:13,479 Speaker 1: And the big problem that we have is the main one, 1348 01:09:13,520 --> 01:09:16,959 Speaker 1: it's not the only one, is that the judiciary, like judges, 1349 01:09:17,439 --> 01:09:21,559 Speaker 1: are super deferential to monopolists. And so there's this big 1350 01:09:21,560 --> 01:09:25,200 Speaker 1: controversy last week in Congress and then today and a 1351 01:09:25,200 --> 01:09:27,160 Speaker 1: bunch of people are like, oh, the laws are fine, 1352 01:09:27,320 --> 01:09:30,920 Speaker 1: and then today a judge or yesterday a judge dismisses 1353 01:09:31,080 --> 01:09:35,280 Speaker 1: these cases, these antitrust cases against Facebook and big headlines. 1354 01:09:35,400 --> 01:09:37,759 Speaker 1: It's not as it's sort of from I'm an anti monopolis, 1355 01:09:37,800 --> 01:09:40,879 Speaker 1: but it's not as bad as it seems. The headlines 1356 01:09:40,920 --> 01:09:44,400 Speaker 1: are kind of worse because the judge the state there 1357 01:09:44,439 --> 01:09:47,080 Speaker 1: are two cases, and the judge said one of the 1358 01:09:47,120 --> 01:09:49,800 Speaker 1: cases can be refiled, the other one is done right, 1359 01:09:49,840 --> 01:09:52,280 Speaker 1: So one case is a set of state attorneys general. 1360 01:09:52,600 --> 01:09:55,559 Speaker 1: He dismissed that entirely. They have to appeal. They can't 1361 01:09:55,600 --> 01:10:00,519 Speaker 1: refile for weird bureaucratic reasons that are problematic can be 1362 01:10:00,560 --> 01:10:04,160 Speaker 1: fixed by Congress. That's a problem. He basically said, they 1363 01:10:04,160 --> 01:10:07,280 Speaker 1: waited too long, and they because of bureaucratic reasons, state 1364 01:10:07,360 --> 01:10:11,040 Speaker 1: ags are not considered part of government when they bring 1365 01:10:11,080 --> 01:10:14,160 Speaker 1: an anti trust case. They're considered private plaintiffs. It's weird 1366 01:10:14,200 --> 01:10:16,519 Speaker 1: and dumb, and they should fix it. But that case 1367 01:10:16,560 --> 01:10:19,720 Speaker 1: is kind of done. They can appeal it, but it's 1368 01:10:19,760 --> 01:10:22,680 Speaker 1: a very narrow bureaucratic appeal. The other one, which is 1369 01:10:22,680 --> 01:10:27,679 Speaker 1: a federal trade commission, they are trying to undo mergers. 1370 01:10:27,680 --> 01:10:30,679 Speaker 1: They have two basic claims. They're saying Facebook bought WhatsApp, 1371 01:10:30,720 --> 01:10:35,040 Speaker 1: they bought Instagram, and those were two. It's monopoly. They 1372 01:10:35,160 --> 01:10:38,600 Speaker 1: also marketed an open platform and said come build on 1373 01:10:38,680 --> 01:10:42,439 Speaker 1: our platform, and then they killed apps like Vine or 1374 01:10:42,479 --> 01:10:45,639 Speaker 1: others who they perceived them as competitors. And the SEC 1375 01:10:45,800 --> 01:10:49,040 Speaker 1: said that that's a that's an antime, that's a violation 1376 01:10:49,080 --> 01:10:52,519 Speaker 1: of it's aim monopotly laws. And the judge said that 1377 01:10:53,400 --> 01:10:56,760 Speaker 1: the murder claim can go forward. They can go after 1378 01:10:56,840 --> 01:11:00,519 Speaker 1: the acquisitions of Instagram and WhatsApp, but the other one can't. 1379 01:11:00,840 --> 01:11:03,599 Speaker 1: But then he dismissed the whole complaint because he said, well, 1380 01:11:03,880 --> 01:11:08,160 Speaker 1: the FTC didn't prove that Facebook had monopoly power. However, 1381 01:11:08,600 --> 01:11:11,120 Speaker 1: they can refile it in thirty days. So it's a 1382 01:11:11,200 --> 01:11:15,960 Speaker 1: kind of bureaucratic judge who's a little bit of a 1383 01:11:16,000 --> 01:11:19,680 Speaker 1: snob saying to the FTC, you know, I buy a 1384 01:11:19,680 --> 01:11:22,519 Speaker 1: lot of your complaint, but I don't like how you 1385 01:11:22,600 --> 01:11:25,519 Speaker 1: wrote it. I think you were a little lazy, and 1386 01:11:26,000 --> 01:11:29,040 Speaker 1: you got to show me some respect. So write it 1387 01:11:29,080 --> 01:11:32,559 Speaker 1: again and submit it again. And also this one particular 1388 01:11:32,560 --> 01:11:36,040 Speaker 1: complaint about Zuckerberg crushing people, Zuckerberg is allowed to crush 1389 01:11:36,080 --> 01:11:38,400 Speaker 1: anyone who wants he wants. That's how the law works, 1390 01:11:39,280 --> 01:11:41,240 Speaker 1: and so I'm not going to allow that to go forward. 1391 01:11:41,800 --> 01:11:43,800 Speaker 1: So that's where we are. And it shows a lot 1392 01:11:43,840 --> 01:11:46,639 Speaker 1: about how screwed up our legal system is that judges 1393 01:11:46,680 --> 01:11:50,679 Speaker 1: are so deferential to monopoly power. Yea, but it also 1394 01:11:50,760 --> 01:11:52,320 Speaker 1: it's not the end of the road here. It's kind 1395 01:11:52,360 --> 01:11:54,600 Speaker 1: of a better headline for Facebook than it actually is 1396 01:11:54,640 --> 01:11:58,400 Speaker 1: in practice. Interesting, So yeah, just to bolster what you 1397 01:11:58,439 --> 01:12:01,760 Speaker 1: were saying there, part of what the judge wrote is 1398 01:12:01,800 --> 01:12:04,800 Speaker 1: that the FTC's complaint says almost nothing concrete on the 1399 01:12:04,880 --> 01:12:07,880 Speaker 1: key question of how much power Facebook actually had and 1400 01:12:07,960 --> 01:12:11,000 Speaker 1: still has in a properly defined anti trust product market. 1401 01:12:11,240 --> 01:12:13,960 Speaker 1: It is almost as if the agency expects the court 1402 01:12:14,000 --> 01:12:17,640 Speaker 1: to simply nod to the conventional wisdom that Facebook is 1403 01:12:17,680 --> 01:12:21,320 Speaker 1: a monopolist. Do you think that there was any truth 1404 01:12:21,360 --> 01:12:23,960 Speaker 1: to the claim that the FTC basically didn't do an 1405 01:12:24,000 --> 01:12:27,560 Speaker 1: effective job of really making the case that Facebook is 1406 01:12:27,600 --> 01:12:30,080 Speaker 1: a monopolist here, as the judge is saying, basically like, 1407 01:12:30,360 --> 01:12:32,200 Speaker 1: y'all just assumed that I was going to think that 1408 01:12:32,240 --> 01:12:34,360 Speaker 1: they were monopolists, but you didn't really prove their case. 1409 01:12:34,400 --> 01:12:36,880 Speaker 1: Do you think that that argument from the judge had merit? 1410 01:12:38,479 --> 01:12:42,360 Speaker 1: I you know, I mean, you know, it's Facebook, Like, 1411 01:12:42,400 --> 01:12:45,200 Speaker 1: come on, I mean, the judge basically wrote that, He's like, yeah, 1412 01:12:45,320 --> 01:12:48,720 Speaker 1: it's it's Facebook. Everybody knows it's a monopolist, you know, 1413 01:12:49,120 --> 01:12:52,439 Speaker 1: But you have to me more evidence, and you could 1414 01:12:52,479 --> 01:12:56,000 Speaker 1: make one or two claims about it. Or one is 1415 01:12:56,479 --> 01:12:59,360 Speaker 1: that the FTC had a lot of information about the 1416 01:12:59,400 --> 01:13:02,439 Speaker 1: market structure, sure, including market shares. They could have said, 1417 01:13:02,920 --> 01:13:05,479 Speaker 1: you know, Facebook is sticking more ads in the news feed, 1418 01:13:05,479 --> 01:13:07,680 Speaker 1: which is a degradation for product quality. They're doing a 1419 01:13:07,720 --> 01:13:09,799 Speaker 1: lot of things that indicate that they have market power, 1420 01:13:10,760 --> 01:13:13,800 Speaker 1: and they didn't do that, and they didn't do it 1421 01:13:13,800 --> 01:13:16,719 Speaker 1: for strategic reasons. They wanted to hold back because later 1422 01:13:16,760 --> 01:13:19,280 Speaker 1: on in the trial they want to present this evidence 1423 01:13:19,320 --> 01:13:21,479 Speaker 1: and they don't necessarily want to give that away what 1424 01:13:21,520 --> 01:13:24,160 Speaker 1: their whole strategy is. Or you could say they didn't 1425 01:13:24,160 --> 01:13:28,400 Speaker 1: do a particularly good job at you know, they just 1426 01:13:28,479 --> 01:13:30,360 Speaker 1: sort of were bad at what they do. They don't 1427 01:13:30,360 --> 01:13:33,000 Speaker 1: really know how to litigate one of these. Either one 1428 01:13:33,080 --> 01:13:36,519 Speaker 1: is sort of a legitimate viewpoint, but the judge, you know, 1429 01:13:36,600 --> 01:13:40,200 Speaker 1: the third. The broad issue here is that this is 1430 01:13:40,240 --> 01:13:42,679 Speaker 1: a motion to dismiss, which means it's not even the trial. 1431 01:13:42,760 --> 01:13:46,040 Speaker 1: It's just a question of whether the judge says, if 1432 01:13:46,120 --> 01:13:49,400 Speaker 1: any in under any plausible scenario, a jury might rule 1433 01:13:49,920 --> 01:13:53,479 Speaker 1: for the government, and he's like, no, there's no way 1434 01:13:53,680 --> 01:13:56,479 Speaker 1: that the jury would ever with this complaint even rule 1435 01:13:56,840 --> 01:13:59,599 Speaker 1: against the government. So it's kind of an insane decision 1436 01:13:59,600 --> 01:14:02,360 Speaker 1: from a jud And I mean, the FTC should should 1437 01:14:02,360 --> 01:14:04,200 Speaker 1: have seen this coming. They should have done a better job. 1438 01:14:05,000 --> 01:14:07,960 Speaker 1: But you know, the law, like it really should be 1439 01:14:08,000 --> 01:14:10,480 Speaker 1: fine to bring a case and say, look at Facebook, 1440 01:14:10,520 --> 01:14:14,960 Speaker 1: their Facebook, right, they're clearly a monopoly. I want to 1441 01:14:15,120 --> 01:14:18,040 Speaker 1: you know, and they're doing these things. I should get 1442 01:14:18,040 --> 01:14:20,160 Speaker 1: a trial. You don't actually win the trial, but you 1443 01:14:20,200 --> 01:14:22,760 Speaker 1: should get a trial. That's how the law should And 1444 01:14:22,880 --> 01:14:26,200 Speaker 1: so it's a crazy NETC also kind of bad at 1445 01:14:26,240 --> 01:14:30,040 Speaker 1: what they do. But and like Facebook, you know, make better, 1446 01:14:30,360 --> 01:14:33,439 Speaker 1: kind of better arguments, but we're at with the dismissal stage, 1447 01:14:33,479 --> 01:14:36,040 Speaker 1: so that should require a much lower standard of proof. 1448 01:14:36,479 --> 01:14:40,200 Speaker 1: Gotcha makes sense. And so Matt, just generally in the future, 1449 01:14:40,320 --> 01:14:42,080 Speaker 1: like you're saying, it's not as good for Facebook as 1450 01:14:42,120 --> 01:14:45,680 Speaker 1: some people might say, what are the developments in the 1451 01:14:45,720 --> 01:14:48,800 Speaker 1: congressional and then the FTC front, Like you said, they're 1452 01:14:48,840 --> 01:14:51,400 Speaker 1: going to have to refile. That's one thing that can happen. 1453 01:14:51,439 --> 01:14:54,880 Speaker 1: Here is there promising action on the federal level, which 1454 01:14:54,880 --> 01:14:57,800 Speaker 1: seems to be most promising at this time. Yeah, So 1455 01:14:58,120 --> 01:15:01,280 Speaker 1: just to bring like a broader context, So the claims 1456 01:15:01,439 --> 01:15:06,160 Speaker 1: that the government made about marzarkber crushing rivals and doing 1457 01:15:06,160 --> 01:15:10,000 Speaker 1: things to maintain his monopoly. This is not just about Facebook. 1458 01:15:10,360 --> 01:15:13,760 Speaker 1: This kind of behavior happens in every industry you could 1459 01:15:13,760 --> 01:15:16,679 Speaker 1: think of. It is why insulin prices are so high. 1460 01:15:17,080 --> 01:15:20,680 Speaker 1: It is why in many cases it's really hard by 1461 01:15:20,800 --> 01:15:25,200 Speaker 1: the best airline price. It is why you see high 1462 01:15:25,240 --> 01:15:28,760 Speaker 1: price and lower wages across the board in virtually every 1463 01:15:28,800 --> 01:15:32,360 Speaker 1: industry that you can think of, from peanut butter to 1464 01:15:32,520 --> 01:15:36,519 Speaker 1: hospitals to you know, mil sorting software, whatever it is. 1465 01:15:37,080 --> 01:15:40,240 Speaker 1: This is why. It's because judges rule this way and 1466 01:15:40,280 --> 01:15:42,760 Speaker 1: we're seeing it on Facebook. Right. This is how the 1467 01:15:42,840 --> 01:15:46,920 Speaker 1: law applies in this particular case. But you know, imagine 1468 01:15:46,960 --> 01:15:50,840 Speaker 1: if people are weren't paying attention, how deferential a judge 1469 01:15:50,880 --> 01:15:54,040 Speaker 1: would be. But going forward to your question, what is 1470 01:15:54,160 --> 01:15:57,559 Speaker 1: likely to happen is that you're going to see more action. 1471 01:15:57,680 --> 01:15:59,160 Speaker 1: I mean, one of the nice things about this is 1472 01:15:59,160 --> 01:16:01,960 Speaker 1: is you see more action in Congress because Congress is 1473 01:16:02,040 --> 01:16:05,479 Speaker 1: paying attention and they're saying, wait a second, there are 1474 01:16:05,520 --> 01:16:08,720 Speaker 1: these anti trust laws we have on the books. How 1475 01:16:08,800 --> 01:16:11,519 Speaker 1: is it that a judge, I know, an Obama judge, 1476 01:16:11,520 --> 01:16:13,920 Speaker 1: So this isn't like some you know, the Democrats aren't 1477 01:16:13,920 --> 01:16:15,679 Speaker 1: going to be like, oh, this is an evil Trump judge, 1478 01:16:15,680 --> 01:16:18,960 Speaker 1: which is silly, but you know it's a judge who 1479 01:16:19,080 --> 01:16:21,479 Speaker 1: just said, ah, I'm not going to really buy that 1480 01:16:21,520 --> 01:16:23,640 Speaker 1: Facebook is a monopoly. So this adds a lot of 1481 01:16:23,680 --> 01:16:26,439 Speaker 1: fuel to the fire and people in Congress who want 1482 01:16:26,439 --> 01:16:28,479 Speaker 1: to change the anti trust laws, who want to say, 1483 01:16:28,520 --> 01:16:31,120 Speaker 1: let's make this stricter, let's take away discretion from judges 1484 01:16:31,120 --> 01:16:33,120 Speaker 1: in making these kinds of claims. And that's what I 1485 01:16:33,160 --> 01:16:35,679 Speaker 1: think the big takeaway is here. I think in thirty 1486 01:16:35,760 --> 01:16:37,719 Speaker 1: days you're going to see the FTC bring a different, 1487 01:16:38,120 --> 01:16:41,559 Speaker 1: more and more sophisticated set of claims, and then we'll 1488 01:16:41,560 --> 01:16:43,760 Speaker 1: move on from there. Matt. The last question I have 1489 01:16:43,920 --> 01:16:48,080 Speaker 1: for you is some make the case that social media 1490 01:16:48,120 --> 01:16:53,840 Speaker 1: companies are basically natural monopolies, right, they're similar to public utilities, 1491 01:16:54,080 --> 01:16:58,240 Speaker 1: Like obviously the value of social media companies that everybody's 1492 01:16:58,280 --> 01:17:00,519 Speaker 1: there and so this creates a sort of now natural 1493 01:17:00,560 --> 01:17:04,160 Speaker 1: monopoly situation. Do you think that that is in fact 1494 01:17:04,160 --> 01:17:07,520 Speaker 1: the case? And what would the implicate the policy implications 1495 01:17:07,560 --> 01:17:11,920 Speaker 1: of that ultimately be. Yeah, it's a great question. You know, 1496 01:17:12,120 --> 01:17:15,040 Speaker 1: we've had these kinds of network systems before, everything from 1497 01:17:15,120 --> 01:17:19,439 Speaker 1: railroads to telegraphs to the phone system in you know, 1498 01:17:19,479 --> 01:17:22,639 Speaker 1: AT and T. I think it's sort of an open 1499 01:17:22,720 --> 01:17:27,240 Speaker 1: question whether whether these are kind of quote unquote natural monopolies. 1500 01:17:27,520 --> 01:17:30,280 Speaker 1: AOL instant messenger could have made the same claim, and 1501 01:17:30,320 --> 01:17:33,640 Speaker 1: then in two thousand the FCC, as part of the 1502 01:17:33,640 --> 01:17:36,680 Speaker 1: AOL time Warner merger, said you have to open up 1503 01:17:36,720 --> 01:17:40,000 Speaker 1: your system to rivals, and then a bunch of rival 1504 01:17:40,120 --> 01:17:44,400 Speaker 1: instant messengers clients got in and started to open up 1505 01:17:44,400 --> 01:17:47,160 Speaker 1: and make that a competitive market. It's really clear there 1506 01:17:47,160 --> 01:17:50,200 Speaker 1: are network effects here, there are economies of scale. But 1507 01:17:50,439 --> 01:17:54,200 Speaker 1: you know, the Internet is a has network effects and 1508 01:17:54,200 --> 01:17:57,360 Speaker 1: economies of scale. There's nothing that says that that network 1509 01:17:57,360 --> 01:18:00,240 Speaker 1: effects and economies of scale have to be contained by 1510 01:18:00,280 --> 01:18:04,320 Speaker 1: a corporation. Like email has network effects and economies of scale, 1511 01:18:04,320 --> 01:18:06,800 Speaker 1: and no one owns that. But it is possible that 1512 01:18:06,960 --> 01:18:10,599 Speaker 1: some of these systems have have to be contained within 1513 01:18:10,640 --> 01:18:14,080 Speaker 1: a corporate entity. I'm not sure about social networking. If 1514 01:18:14,080 --> 01:18:16,519 Speaker 1: that's the case, though, and maybe even if it's not 1515 01:18:16,600 --> 01:18:19,720 Speaker 1: the case, then the traditional American remedy to that is 1516 01:18:19,760 --> 01:18:23,439 Speaker 1: public utility law. So that would be the government saying 1517 01:18:23,800 --> 01:18:26,080 Speaker 1: here are the prices you can charge in terms that 1518 01:18:26,160 --> 01:18:28,120 Speaker 1: you can set. That would be privacy, or it would 1519 01:18:28,160 --> 01:18:31,920 Speaker 1: be you know how you can you can amplify or whatever, 1520 01:18:32,680 --> 01:18:36,559 Speaker 1: and then you know you have usually non discriminatory treatment 1521 01:18:36,720 --> 01:18:39,840 Speaker 1: of all comers onto the platform. Basically, if it's if 1522 01:18:39,880 --> 01:18:43,040 Speaker 1: it's an important social institution, as the railroads were, as 1523 01:18:43,080 --> 01:18:47,240 Speaker 1: the telegraphs were, as the telephone was, as the internet is, 1524 01:18:47,680 --> 01:18:51,120 Speaker 1: then the government sets the terms and conditions. We the people, 1525 01:18:51,200 --> 01:18:55,760 Speaker 1: set the terms and conditions so that nobody gets so 1526 01:18:55,840 --> 01:18:59,760 Speaker 1: everybody gets equal access to this vital social resource. I'm 1527 01:18:59,760 --> 01:19:03,720 Speaker 1: not totally convinced that it's a natural monopoly, but if 1528 01:19:03,760 --> 01:19:07,120 Speaker 1: it is, or if there are network effects that you 1529 01:19:07,200 --> 01:19:11,560 Speaker 1: can't get away from within without having a corporate structure overlaid, 1530 01:19:11,920 --> 01:19:14,600 Speaker 1: then you know, we have rules, we have ways of 1531 01:19:14,640 --> 01:19:16,320 Speaker 1: dealing with that, and we should just sort of bring 1532 01:19:16,320 --> 01:19:19,360 Speaker 1: them back. They're pre nineteen seventy rules, but they work. Yes, 1533 01:19:19,520 --> 01:19:22,160 Speaker 1: that's a really smart point. We really appreciate you joining us, Matt, 1534 01:19:22,200 --> 01:19:25,040 Speaker 1: really appreciate it. Great to see Matt. Thank you, thanks 1535 01:19:25,080 --> 01:19:28,720 Speaker 1: a lot, absolutely, thanks for everybody watching. We really appreciate it. 1536 01:19:28,760 --> 01:19:30,720 Speaker 1: If you guys want to support our work here, you 1537 01:19:30,760 --> 01:19:34,280 Speaker 1: can support us at it become a Breaking Points Premium member, 1538 01:19:34,320 --> 01:19:37,080 Speaker 1: you get to watch the entire show uncut completely one 1539 01:19:37,120 --> 01:19:39,479 Speaker 1: hour early listen to it uncut as well. We would 1540 01:19:39,520 --> 01:19:42,800 Speaker 1: really appreciate it. Yesterday you know, we saw exactly how 1541 01:19:42,840 --> 01:19:46,200 Speaker 1: dice it can be discussing ivermectin and all of that, 1542 01:19:46,479 --> 01:19:49,520 Speaker 1: and it really is a relief watching people get demonetized 1543 01:19:49,640 --> 01:19:52,479 Speaker 1: or taken off of YouTube and more to know that 1544 01:19:52,479 --> 01:19:56,200 Speaker 1: that is not going to ever factor into our editorial decision. 1545 01:19:56,320 --> 01:19:58,960 Speaker 1: So we appreciate all of those, all of those of 1546 01:19:58,960 --> 01:20:00,519 Speaker 1: you who are showing up for us, and we will 1547 01:20:00,560 --> 01:20:03,280 Speaker 1: see you all. I also, very quickly I want to 1548 01:20:03,280 --> 01:20:06,280 Speaker 1: say to our lifetime members who we are in love 1549 01:20:06,320 --> 01:20:09,840 Speaker 1: with and so grateful too. We are working on the plaqus. Yes, 1550 01:20:09,920 --> 01:20:11,920 Speaker 1: there's a few more of you than them. We're here 1551 01:20:12,000 --> 01:20:15,640 Speaker 1: initially expected. So we're figuring out a solution so that 1552 01:20:15,680 --> 01:20:17,840 Speaker 1: we can make sure your name is the permanent part 1553 01:20:17,880 --> 01:20:19,639 Speaker 1: of this set, which is something we are really excited 1554 01:20:19,680 --> 01:20:22,320 Speaker 1: about and very committed to. So just know we are 1555 01:20:22,360 --> 01:20:24,559 Speaker 1: actively working on it. We're also going to get the 1556 01:20:24,560 --> 01:20:26,719 Speaker 1: list of names that runs at the end. We're getting 1557 01:20:26,720 --> 01:20:29,360 Speaker 1: that updated as well, so that all of you will 1558 01:20:29,360 --> 01:20:31,960 Speaker 1: get your due because we are truly, truly great. That's right. 1559 01:20:31,960 --> 01:20:33,400 Speaker 1: I don't want any of you to feel left out. 1560 01:20:33,400 --> 01:20:36,479 Speaker 1: The plaques are here, they're pretty big, and we spend 1561 01:20:36,479 --> 01:20:39,479 Speaker 1: a lot of time this morning being like, man, plead 1562 01:20:39,880 --> 01:20:42,320 Speaker 1: figure it out. We'll figure it out because we love 1563 01:20:42,360 --> 01:20:44,439 Speaker 1: all of you. Same thing with the credit section. It 1564 01:20:44,520 --> 01:20:46,840 Speaker 1: just takes. It's a little bit harder to update than you, 1565 01:20:46,840 --> 01:20:49,400 Speaker 1: guys might expect, but everything should be absolutely good to 1566 01:20:49,479 --> 01:20:52,640 Speaker 1: go and one hundred percent updated by Thursday show. If 1567 01:20:52,680 --> 01:20:55,000 Speaker 1: it's not, go ahead and hit the customer service email. 1568 01:20:55,160 --> 01:20:56,679 Speaker 1: We'll get back to you. We'll make sure that everything 1569 01:20:56,960 --> 01:20:59,160 Speaker 1: is completely set and if you want to become one, look, 1570 01:20:59,200 --> 01:21:01,720 Speaker 1: we'd be eternally great. As we said, you guys, get 1571 01:21:01,720 --> 01:21:04,720 Speaker 1: your name or name inscribed literally on a plaque which 1572 01:21:04,760 --> 01:21:06,600 Speaker 1: is on the set and in the credit section for 1573 01:21:06,800 --> 01:21:08,960 Speaker 1: Live Reserve, VIP, all that stuff. The pitch is all 1574 01:21:08,960 --> 01:21:11,240 Speaker 1: there on the website. The link is right there on 1575 01:21:11,360 --> 01:21:13,680 Speaker 1: the description notes. We love you, we appreciate you, and 1576 01:21:13,680 --> 01:21:15,640 Speaker 1: we'll see you on Thursday. See you guys Thursday. Have 1577 01:21:15,680 --> 01:21:32,040 Speaker 1: a good one. Thanks for listening to the show, guys, 1578 01:21:32,040 --> 01:21:34,599 Speaker 1: we really appreciate it. 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