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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.

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Speaker 2: It's going to be the largest regulatory reduction in the

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Speaker 2: history of our country.

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Speaker 3: It's going to happen very fairs.

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Speaker 2: I'm Stephanie Flanders, head of Government and Economics at Bloomberg,

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Speaker 2: and this is trump Anomics, the podcast that looks at

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Speaker 2: the economic world of Donald Trump, how he's already shaped

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Speaker 2: the global economy and what on earth is going to

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Speaker 2: happen next. And this week we're talking about Donald Trump's

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Speaker 2: way with money, all kinds of it. The old guard

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Speaker 2: on Wall Street and the crypto punks are all delighted

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Speaker 2: with the administration's plans for the financial sector so far,

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Speaker 2: especially the big push on deregulation. That's no mean feat.

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Speaker 2: I mean, there's little else these folks could agree on.

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Speaker 2: But when the financial sector gets everything it's asked for,

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Speaker 2: that's not always good news for the rest of us.

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Speaker 2: In loosening the guardrails on the banks, or at least

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Speaker 2: saying that's what it wants to do, and giving the

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Speaker 2: presidential seal of approval to all kinds of crypto, is

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Speaker 2: the administration laying the groundwork for the next big financial crisis,

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Speaker 2: or just correcting the mountain of bureaucracy, regulation, and risk

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Speaker 2: aversion that descended on America's financial system in the years

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Speaker 2: after the financial crisis of two thousand and eight. That's

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Speaker 2: what I'm wondering about this week, and I have two

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Speaker 2: expert colleagues to help me navigate it all. Joining from

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Speaker 2: New York Christine Harper, a member of the Bloomberg editorial

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Speaker 2: board and also the co author with the man himself,

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Speaker 2: of Paul Volker's biography, And in Washington, D C. Katanga Johnson,

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Speaker 2: who's our lead reporter covering banking regulation in that bureau.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much for coming, both of you.

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Speaker 1: Thank you thanks for having us in.

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Speaker 2: So Kittanga, we tend to come to reporters first because

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Speaker 2: they're the ones who are trying to kind of keep

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Speaker 2: track of everything that's going on. When the administration came in,

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Speaker 2: what would you say were their big priorities in thinking

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Speaker 2: about the state of financial regulation in the US and

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Speaker 2: the administrative system that they were inheriting.

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Speaker 1: On day one, Trump's regulators really wanted to focus on

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Speaker 1: streamlining all regulatory and supervisory efforts to make sure that

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Speaker 1: small banks, community banks could compete and that bigger banks

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Speaker 1: weren't necessarily complying with rules that were, as they say,

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Speaker 1: goal plated or much more onerous than the framers had anticipated.

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Speaker 1: Part of that focus was really to address things that

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Speaker 1: didn't really address a bank's balance sheet, things like climate

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Speaker 1: rules restricting access and partnerships with FinTechs and non banks,

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Speaker 1: heavier hand on anything tied to crypto. Trump's regulators came

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Speaker 1: in thinking, how can we level the playing field for

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Speaker 1: banks to compete, whether those were smaller banks and bigger banks,

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Speaker 1: And let's pause anything that the bui An administration proposed

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Speaker 1: and then revisit some of the bigger ticket items addressed

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Speaker 1: issues that actually affected their ability to end, like capital

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Speaker 1: liquidity and all the rest.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so that's really useful.

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Speaker 2: We've tended to think that the administration has acted extremely

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Speaker 2: quickly on an enormous range of fronts in its first

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Speaker 2: few months. If you think about those goals that you

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Speaker 2: just set out, how are they doing if they made

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Speaker 2: some big moves in those directions.

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Speaker 1: On the one hand, initially privately you'd hear folks on

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Speaker 1: Wall Street and even some in Washington would agree there

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Speaker 1: are things of the administrations doing that's not quite the

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Speaker 1: main priority that included a flurry of executive orders that

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Speaker 1: seemed to get in the way of regulators getting to work.

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Speaker 1: But to some degree, the personnel moves that we've seen

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Speaker 1: at the agencies have really made a big difference in

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Speaker 1: terms of their ability to get the deregulation agenda started,

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Speaker 1: and chiefly at the FAD the departure of Michael Barr, who,

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Speaker 1: as the Vice Chair of Supervision under Biden, was supposed

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Speaker 1: to be in office until next year. His departure in

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Speaker 1: a bid to sort of avoid a fight with Trump,

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Speaker 1: open the way for Michelle Bowman, who's now the fed's

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Speaker 1: top bank cop, to come in and really take a

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Speaker 1: look at Okay, what are the main issues that banks

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Speaker 1: have said they want to see paused and what are

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Speaker 1: things that we could begin to do around capital and

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Speaker 1: the major agenda items so far out of the FED

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Speaker 1: and indeed all of the regulators has been a major

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Speaker 1: capital rule, this enhanced supplemental Leverage ratio, which is the

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Speaker 1: beginning of easing capital rules for banks. There are others

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Speaker 1: that we expect, but already having a proposal with a

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Speaker 1: thirty day comment period on that item, in addition to

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Speaker 1: pausing other rules that sort of got in the way,

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Speaker 1: has been in some ways ahead of track for the administration,

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Speaker 1: again because of Mar's departure.

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Speaker 2: It's good you've taken us to the effect because I

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Speaker 2: want to get onto that a bit later. I think

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Speaker 2: we tend to focus a lot on what's going to

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Speaker 2: happen to the chairmanship of the FED, and thinking about

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Speaker 2: Jay Pale and whether he's going to get FED and

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Speaker 2: how much power that might get the president. But as

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Speaker 2: you've reminded us, there's lots of people behind slightly less

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Speaker 2: high profile things that the FED is deeply involved in

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Speaker 2: which the administration can have a lot of influence over

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Speaker 2: partly because of that personnel change you just mentioned Michelle Bowman.

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Speaker 2: So we'll get onto that in a bit. But Christine,

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Speaker 2: after many years of very distinguished reporting in different areas,

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Speaker 2: often in finance in Bloomberg, you're now on the editorial board,

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Speaker 2: and so you're associated with the editorials. And I was

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Speaker 2: quite struck by one on financial deregulation that was published

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Speaker 2: soon after President Trump was re elected, saying this campaign's

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Speaker 2: disdained for the administrative state and the public's growing exasperation

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Speaker 2: with red tape suggests the country is in for a

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Speaker 2: period of bureaucratic humility. Here's hoping the financial system doesn't

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Speaker 2: become vulnerable as a result. Well, I think you've got

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Speaker 2: the bureaucratic humility right.

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Speaker 3: But do you think.

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Speaker 2: Overall that we're heading in a direction where the financial

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Speaker 2: system will be less safe?

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Speaker 4: Well it's hard to say. I mean, but as Katanga

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Speaker 4: was pointing out, personnel is really policy here. I mean,

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Speaker 4: besides Michelle Bauman, who's been a very staunch opponent of

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Speaker 4: many of the regulatory efforts under Biden, the Trump administration

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Speaker 4: has named to all of the key regulatory posts people

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Speaker 4: who are, you know, advocates for the industry in one

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Speaker 4: way or another. I think even Michelle Bowman has named

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Speaker 4: one of the top lobbyists for the banks as a

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Speaker 4: key deputy. So now there are people in position to

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Speaker 4: rewrite or pause in many cases, rules or enforcement actions

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Speaker 4: that the industry didn't like. That's not always a bad thing.

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Speaker 4: Some of the things that were happening under the Biden

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Speaker 4: administration were just, you know, probably over aggressive. Gary Gensler

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Speaker 4: had an incredible record at the SEC of writing and

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Speaker 4: proposing rules, far exceeding his predecessors, and many of the

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Speaker 4: rules he was proposing were not required by statute, so

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Speaker 4: he was really going above and beyond, and that is

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Speaker 4: all being dialed back pretty quickly. The people who are

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Speaker 4: in place are just right now just trying to and

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Speaker 4: anything that was happening under their predecessors. And as I said,

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Speaker 4: some of that makes sense. For instance, these really onerous

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Speaker 4: requirements on mergers between banks and probably don't make that

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Speaker 4: much sense. Bank mergers are in and of themselves not

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Speaker 4: a bad thing. They can actually make the system safer sometimes.

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Speaker 4: That said, I mean, they've basically gutted the Consumer Financial

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Speaker 4: Protection Bureau, which had done some pretty useful work in

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Speaker 4: protecting consumers. And remains to be seen how lowering capital

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Speaker 4: requirements as are proposing will affect the resilience of banks

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Speaker 4: if things go wrong. And then they're dialing back some

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Speaker 4: of the oversight that had been proposed over the sort

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Speaker 4: of so called shadow banking system, which poses its own

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Speaker 4: set of potential dangers. I thought it was interesting just

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Speaker 4: to make one point that the SEC one of the

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Speaker 4: commissioners who's still on the Commission, who's a Republican, is

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Speaker 4: Hester Pierce. She's so pro the cryptocurrency industry that she's

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Speaker 4: known as crypto mom, but she actually put out a

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Speaker 4: fascinating last week pushing back at the effort to tokenize

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Speaker 4: all the financial instruments. If you tokenize things, it doesn't

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Speaker 4: magically change the underlying thing. You can't just avoid securities

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Speaker 4: laws by tokenizing something. So even people are who are

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Speaker 4: industry advocates who are starting to see they need to

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Speaker 4: push back a little bit against some of the excessive

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Speaker 4: optimism of the people there.

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Speaker 2: So just to touch into the weeds a little bit.

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Speaker 2: One of the rules that has certainly been a little

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Speaker 2: bit unpopular among some of the big banks is this

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Speaker 2: supplemental ratio, which is supposed to be about maintaining the

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Speaker 2: strength of the balance sheet of the bank and making

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Speaker 2: sure that they can't be too highly leveraged. But there's

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Speaker 2: a change in effective loosening in that which the administration

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Speaker 2: is very keen to achieve. You know, roughly, what is

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Speaker 2: that aimed at doing? Katanga?

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Speaker 1: Roughly, the regulators hope that by making changes to the ratio,

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Speaker 1: to the enhanced supplementary leverage ratio, that trading in the

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Speaker 1: twenty nine trillion dollar treasuries market, particularly in a.

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Speaker 3: Moment you had federal government bonds, Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Would be easier for the likes of JP, Morgan Goldmansas,

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Speaker 1: and Morgan Stanley, And by lowering that requirement for those banks,

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Speaker 1: it would allow them and their subsidiaries to sort of

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Speaker 1: have the same requirement.

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Speaker 2: So, Christine, I'm remembering in the first Trump administration, some

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Speaker 2: of the constraints that were put on banks after the

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Speaker 2: global financial crisis were paired back, and then it was

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Speaker 2: suggested later that those changes had helped put us on

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Speaker 2: a path to the bank failures we had a couple

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Speaker 2: of years ago. I guess you know, Silicon Valley Banks

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Speaker 2: signature First Republic. Do you have the same kind of

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Speaker 2: worries about this effort to change the supplemental leverage ratio

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Speaker 2: or do you think it actually makes a bit of sense.

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Speaker 4: Well, I mean, it's certainly true that the size of

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Speaker 4: the treasury market has grown dramatically since those rules were

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Speaker 4: first proposed back in I think twenty fourteen, and so

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Speaker 4: when they were proposed, there was supposed to be this

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Speaker 4: limit on how many assets banks could have compared to

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Speaker 4: their level of capital, even if those assets were super

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Speaker 4: safe things like treasuries or central bank reserves. So they

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Speaker 4: wanted to make sure that there was a minimum sort

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Speaker 4: of backstop, no matter what the riskiness of their assets was.

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Speaker 4: But as this treasury market has grown, now the banks

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Speaker 4: are constrained when things really developed from being able to

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Speaker 4: just buy unlimited treasuries, and as a result you've seen

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Speaker 4: a lot of hedge funds and proprietary trading firms step

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Speaker 4: in and do a lot more activity in the treasury market.

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Speaker 4: The problem is that if you lower that backstop, that

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Speaker 4: sort of minimum capital requirement for banks, you're just reducing

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Speaker 4: the safety that bank depositors and other investors have that

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Speaker 4: if something goes wrong in the assets on the bank's

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Speaker 4: balance sheet, that they'll have enough capital to deal with it.

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Speaker 4: So things just go wrong, they always do, and so

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Speaker 4: as a result, it would make more sense in my

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Speaker 4: view to have capital requirements where they are. It doesn't

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Speaker 4: seem necessarily to lower them. There are other ways you

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Speaker 4: could solve the problems in the treasury market.

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Speaker 2: It is funny when you look at a bank balance sheet,

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Speaker 2: there is this kind of basic fact that if it

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Speaker 2: was any other business, you would say.

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Speaker 3: It was hugely bankrupt. You know.

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Speaker 2: It's like they're the only institutions that are able to

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Speaker 2: have a relatively small amount of equity, and then they're

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Speaker 2: lending a huge amount on the back of that, which

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Speaker 2: you'd never be able to do if you were just

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Speaker 2: a sort of normal, normal company.

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Speaker 4: Right, And that's by design. And that's one of the

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Speaker 4: arguments that a lot of the you know, private credit

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Speaker 4: and non bank companies are saying is that you know,

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Speaker 4: we have a different model where we have more permanent capital,

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Speaker 4: and so there's no risk that depositors suddenly flee and

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Speaker 4: you have a problem with, you know, trying to repay

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Speaker 4: your lenders. But banks, you know, are always going to

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Speaker 4: be leveraged. But making sure that they're not over leverage

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Speaker 4: is sort of the core part of the post financial

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Speaker 4: crisis regulation, and so any effort to sort of water

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Speaker 4: that down seems concerning.

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Speaker 3: I could take it.

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Speaker 2: I think, I mean Scott Besson, the Treasury Sectuary, it

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Speaker 2: does seem to be one of the key movers in

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Speaker 2: this financial deregulation or certainly to this push to change

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Speaker 2: banking regulation. And of course the Treasure Secutor has always

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Speaker 2: had quite a lot of power in these areas, but

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Speaker 2: I guess the way that the administration has concentrated power

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Speaker 2: and gained a lot more influence over the independent agencies.

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Speaker 2: You know, Supreme Court has kind of given them the

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Speaker 2: power to hire and fire many of these officials or

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Speaker 2: independent agencies who we previously would have thought of as

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Speaker 2: a bit more arm's length from the administration. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I write in thinking that he has become a particularly

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Speaker 2: important figure in this and along with Michelle Bowman, is

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Speaker 2: you know, really giving the administration a much sort of

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Speaker 2: clearer unified policy making than we might have had in

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Speaker 2: previous series.

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Speaker 1: You're right, Stephanie, that'son has really taken the helm of

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Speaker 1: the financial regulators and said, let's coordinate our efforts by

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Speaker 1: meeting with the heads of the three main banked regulators,

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Speaker 1: the Federal Reserve, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp, and the

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Speaker 1: Treasury Zone Office of the Control of the Currency. Together,

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Speaker 1: those three agencies are now trying to coordinate their efforts

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Speaker 1: in streamlining rules, discussing the sort of priorities around changes

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Speaker 1: to capital.

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Speaker 2: Call me suspicious, but I can't help noticing that Scott

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Speaker 2: Bessont the Treasury sector, who's now going to be also

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Speaker 2: presiding over a massive increase in the number of US treasuries.

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Speaker 2: I mean, the debt is going to go up by

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Speaker 2: several trillion dollars at least according to almost everyone's forecast.

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Speaker 2: Is it a coincidence that he also wants to make

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Speaker 2: it much easier for banks to hold treasuries not worried

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Speaker 2: too much about how many they own. Isn't that going

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Speaker 2: to be unbalance sort of positive for the market at

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Speaker 2: a time when the cost of borrowing for governments from

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Speaker 2: going up.

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Speaker 1: Many people would agree that yes. On its face, it's

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Speaker 1: interesting that Beston is playing that role and seemingly following

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Speaker 1: some strategy that many others either haven't haven't seen or

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Speaker 1: haven't agreed on. But what the impact will be will

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Speaker 1: be rather interesting, and I imagine a lot of ways

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Speaker 1: people close to him privately must be discussing, Hey, have

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Speaker 1: you considered what the outcome will be by addressing things

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Speaker 1: in this way on both sides?

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Speaker 2: Well, that's a very careful answer, which I would expect.

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Speaker 2: I would expect no less. But lots of people will

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Speaker 2: be amazed that we haven't talked about crypto yet, Christine.

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Speaker 2: For people on the outside, that seems like the biggest

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Speaker 2: sort of mood shift and change of direction for this

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Speaker 2: administration when it comes to finance. I mean, that feels

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Speaker 2: like the whole world of cryptocurrencies is being kind of

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Speaker 2: welcomed into the American financial system in a way that

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Speaker 2: was just not the case under the previous administration.

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Speaker 4: But that's absolutely true. And just to return to your

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Speaker 4: previous point about the treasury market, one of the first

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Speaker 4: things that the Banking Committee got to was the Genius Act,

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Speaker 4: which is a way of creating a regulatory framework for

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Speaker 4: what are known as stable coins. This is a part

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Speaker 4: of the crypto market that basically just as you know,

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Speaker 4: a digital version of the dollar, let's say, and there's

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Speaker 4: part of the regulatory regime will require them to own

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Speaker 4: safe assets like in particularly treasuries, and there's an argument

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Speaker 4: that this will increase demand for treasuries and help the

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Speaker 4: dollar and whatnot. And so you're building a sort of

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Speaker 4: a whole financial structure that's even more leveraged on treasury market.

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Speaker 4: So stable coins and banks, as you've talked about, At

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Speaker 4: a time when the treasury market maybe is becoming a

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Speaker 4: little less reliable, as you just saw a downgrade from

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Speaker 4: the third of the three big rating agencies, that maybe

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Speaker 4: should be a cause for some concern, but otherwise, crypto

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Speaker 4: in general sort of the irony is it's being boosted

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Speaker 4: by regulation because they were the least regulated thing that

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Speaker 4: existed and they could do whatever they wanted. And it

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Speaker 4: turned out that was not good for the crypto industry

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Speaker 4: because they went too far and they stole too much money,

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Speaker 4: and people lost their life savings and got scammed and

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Speaker 4: got defrauded, and there were a lot of problems. And

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Speaker 4: so now they're writing rules to make people feel comfortable

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Speaker 4: about the crypto industry. And it's interesting that these are

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Speaker 4: rules that were essentially very similar to what Sam Bankman

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Speaker 4: Freed was proposing back when he was on the Hill,

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Speaker 4: you know, asking for regulation by the commodity in futures.

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Speaker 3: Right before his company blew up.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, before he went to jail. So you know, and

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Speaker 4: Trump himself was a big skeptic of crypto back in

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Speaker 4: the day, kind of in the same vein as Jamie

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Speaker 4: Diamond and Warren Buffett. But now he's he's in the business,

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Speaker 4: so he's a proponent. So yeah, everything seems to be

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Speaker 4: designed on Capitol Hill to do whatever they can to

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Speaker 4: help the crypto industry. And you know, there's I think

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Speaker 4: a genuinely large degree of risk in that, you know,

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Speaker 4: the volatility of these assets they're just not They don't

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Speaker 4: have the tradition of risk management that the sort of

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Speaker 4: you know, more established banking and financial system have, So

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Speaker 4: there's a lot more volatility and there's no fundamental value

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Speaker 4: in a lot of these sort of meme coins or

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Speaker 4: different tokens. I mean stable coins are different, obviously, but

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Speaker 4: even stable coins, it's going to be a lot of

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Speaker 4: tech companies starting these. One way of thinking of it

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Speaker 4: is you've sort of had banks that were becoming more

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Speaker 4: technologically focused, and now you're having tech companies that are

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Speaker 4: becoming more bank focused, and which do you feel safe

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Speaker 4: for putting your money in. It's a real question. The

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Speaker 4: risk is that there we're having a bubble, which you

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Speaker 4: know is very possible. We had one in twenty twenty

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Speaker 4: two that popped, and then if it all turns around,

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Speaker 4: then you have a big you know. And the more

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Speaker 4: the more that it's a traditional financial system is connected

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Speaker 4: to it, the more risk you have for the broader

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Speaker 4: economy and people who aren't connected to crypto.

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Speaker 2: Good Tanka weren't. There's some limits that were put on

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Speaker 2: the banks to prevent them having too much exposure to crypto,

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Speaker 2: and the administrator's been talking about pairing those back.

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Speaker 3: Is that right?

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Speaker 1: So trust regulators have indeed sort of reversed those guardrails

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Speaker 1: that were put in place f I mean the twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty two issues in the industry, But since then they've

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Speaker 1: tried to underscore the importance of banks that are holding

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Speaker 1: crypto custody, as recently as this month saying banks really

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Speaker 1: should bear in mind that the onus is on those

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Speaker 1: institutions for any types they have with crypto firms to

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Speaker 1: make sure that they are disclosed adequately and spell it

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Speaker 1: for their customers with the risks are which is commonplace. Right,

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Speaker 1: that's an expectation.

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Speaker 2: You know, we saw that really work very well in

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Speaker 2: two thousand and eight. Just to just be careful, just

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Speaker 2: make sure you know the risks on your balance sheet

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Speaker 2: if you were one of the big banks. There has

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Speaker 2: to be something a little bit alarming about this zeal

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Speaker 2: to have this whole new form of finance that, really,

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Speaker 2: although it's somewhat regulated, now makes a virtue of not

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Speaker 2: being very transparent, of being difficult to track, and somewhat

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Speaker 2: outside the traditional system. You have the Peter Tiels of

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Speaker 2: this world and others they actively want to you would say,

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Speaker 2: dis intermediate you know, bring the final outside of traditional banks.

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Speaker 2: It is a threat to the traditional financial system ultimately,

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Speaker 2: and its administration seems to be all in favor.

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Speaker 4: Well, I mean in two ways. So I would say

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Speaker 4: one thing that's been a rallying cry among Republicans this

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Speaker 4: year has been this claim that the big banks were debanking,

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Speaker 4: meaning denying banking services to crypto related companies, just on

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Speaker 4: the basis of sort of reputation or not liking them,

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Speaker 4: and that this was a wrong thing and that it

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Speaker 4: had to be stopped. And so you know, there was

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Speaker 4: put in place a change so that you know, regulators

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Speaker 4: couldn't consider reputation risk when they're assessing banks. Banks have

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Speaker 4: a lot of reasons why they legitimately had to have

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Speaker 4: concerns about banking with these crypto companies. One of the

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Speaker 4: with them is just how onerous it is to do

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Speaker 4: the anti money laundering checks. This is a system that's

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Speaker 4: designed to get around the regulated financial system. It has

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Speaker 4: been used by criminal and illicit funds. So now they're

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Speaker 4: almost being pushed that you have to bank crypto. If

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Speaker 4: you're not, you're somehow debanking. You're doing this illegal and

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Speaker 4: sort of almost like a First Amendment the kind of thing.

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Speaker 4: On the other front, there is this real concern that

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Speaker 4: some of the rules that have traditionally applied to the

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Speaker 4: financial sector, like the US has always had this concept

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Speaker 4: of the separation of commerce and banking. In other words,

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Speaker 4: we don't want Walmart to also be a bank because

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Speaker 4: then somehow they're going to you know, prioritize their suppliers

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Speaker 4: and their customers over their competitors. Stable coins are going

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Speaker 4: to be allowed to be issued by a lot of

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Speaker 4: tech companies, or at least the private tech companies, and

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Speaker 4: so you know, this is sort of these traditional rules

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Speaker 4: are just being scrapped in the interest of helping the

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Speaker 4: sort of crypto industry. And so yeah, I think for

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Speaker 4: the big banks and for little banks, it's sort of

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Speaker 4: a concerning development development.

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Speaker 3: Okay, Tangia.

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Speaker 2: Is there a concern in Washington that the financial system

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Speaker 2: is going to be a bit hard to control as

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Speaker 2: a result of this or is that just not a

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Speaker 2: voice that you hear very much when you're talking to people.

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Speaker 1: Not quite the voice I'm hearing in Washington. But either

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Speaker 1: former regulators on both sides, folks who work at the

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Speaker 1: agencies under different administrations, academics researchers all point to the

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Speaker 1: fact that it is increasingly becoming concerning that by at

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Speaker 1: the same time deregulating and welcoming less traditional access to

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Speaker 1: the financial system, and that includes crypto but also thinking

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Speaker 1: about FinTechs that are trying to get access to bank

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Speaker 1: charters and making their positions in that way, as well

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Speaker 1: as a reduced workforce, meaning the ranks of regulators who

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Speaker 1: are actually day to day trying to evaluate how banks

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Speaker 1: have tie ups with FinTechs and crypto firms, what that

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Speaker 1: looks like, and other potential novel activities that are around

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Speaker 1: the corner that are not yet known. There's concern about

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Speaker 1: altogether that spells potential trouble. But they'd say it's too

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Speaker 1: soon to say whether a christ is imminine or not.

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Speaker 1: But the signs based on previous crises and the ways

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Speaker 1: that the administration, the pace of the administration is moving

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Speaker 1: with its effort is trolley.

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Speaker 2: I mean, as a final thought to you, Christine, I

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Speaker 2: mean anyone who pays any attention to these different eras

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Speaker 2: of banking regulation basil and the domestic changes and rules.

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Speaker 2: I mean, the process can seem insanely slow, but I

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Speaker 2: guess you'd argue it has to be slow because it's

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Speaker 2: so complicated, and we know the cost of making a

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Speaker 2: mistake of moving too quickly could be very high for

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Speaker 2: all of us when it comes to the financial sector.

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Speaker 2: You know, you think about that process and then you

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Speaker 2: think about the way this administration does things. I mean,

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Speaker 2: it's not a good fit, is it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean this is an administration that likes to

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Speaker 4: do things quickly and have quick results, and the pace

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Speaker 4: of financial regulation and sort of supervision of you know,

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Speaker 4: important companies takes time. It takes effort, it takes you know,

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Speaker 4: a methodical approach, and that's not really the way things

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Speaker 4: are being done. Oh there is, you know, I think

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Speaker 4: a reason to be concerned that the approach being taken

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Speaker 4: at some point will regret it.

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Speaker 2: We've gone a little bit into the weeds, and there's

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Speaker 2: probably still plenty that we don't understand. The lesson of

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Speaker 2: experience is that in a few years time something terrible

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Speaker 2: will happen. And I wish that we'd understood at least

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Speaker 2: one of the things we've discussed today better. But in

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Speaker 2: the meantime, you've been very good guide to Katango and Christine.

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Speaker 3: Thanks you very much.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for having us, Thank you.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to Trump Andomics from Bloomerg. It was

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Speaker 2: hosted by me Stephanie Flanders and I was joined this

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Speaker 2: week by Christine Harper and Katanga Johnson. Trump and Nomics

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Speaker 2: is produced by Samasadi and Moses and with help from

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Speaker 2: Amy Keen and special thanks again this week to Rachel

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Speaker 2: Lewis Chrisky and Dashelle Bennett. Sound design is by Blake

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Speaker 2: Maples and Sage Bowman is head of Bloomberg Podcast and

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Speaker 2: please help others find the show and enjoy it, rate

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Speaker 2: it and review it highly wherever you listen