1 00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:17,880 Speaker 1: You're listening to Part Time Genius, a production of Kaleidoscope 2 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:19,040 Speaker 1: and iHeartRadio. 3 00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:24,160 Speaker 2: Guess what, Mango? 4 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:25,160 Speaker 1: What's that Mary? 5 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:29,000 Speaker 2: The oldest known sentence written in an alphabet is about lice. 6 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:32,880 Speaker 1: One. I don't know how that is possible, and to 7 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:36,640 Speaker 1: just saying the words lice is already making the itch. 8 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:39,800 Speaker 2: This is completely true. The sentence in question was written 9 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:43,920 Speaker 2: in Canaanite, which was the world's first letter based writing system. 10 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:47,440 Speaker 2: It began around five thousand years ago, and roughly translated, 11 00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:51,479 Speaker 2: the sentence says, quote, may this tusk root out the 12 00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:56,360 Speaker 2: lice of the hair and the beard. Archaeologists discovered these 13 00:00:56,440 --> 00:00:59,560 Speaker 2: historic words inscribed on an ivory lyce comb that was 14 00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:03,320 Speaker 2: estimated to be about three thousand, seven hundred years old. 15 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 2: And if this com wasn't, you know, like a priceless artifact, 16 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:10,119 Speaker 2: you could still use it to delouse yourself. One side 17 00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:13,040 Speaker 2: has wide teeth to detangle knots in your hair, and 18 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:15,640 Speaker 2: the other side has fine teeth designed to catch lice 19 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:18,280 Speaker 2: and knits, which of course are laus eggs. 20 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:22,120 Speaker 1: You know, I'm just imagining some parent almost four thousand 21 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:24,520 Speaker 1: years ago, grabbing this comb in a panic because their 22 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:28,560 Speaker 1: kid came home from school with lice, which honestly feels 23 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:29,520 Speaker 1: too relatable. 24 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:32,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it really does well, and that's because like 25 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:34,319 Speaker 2: it or not, lice have always been with us, and 26 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:37,480 Speaker 2: today head lice are incredibly common. It is estimated that 27 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:40,199 Speaker 2: as many as one in four school children have them 28 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:41,120 Speaker 2: right now. 29 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 1: And since it's back to school time right now in 30 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:48,880 Speaker 1: the Northeast, I've bet some of our listeners are dealing 31 00:01:48,960 --> 00:01:52,320 Speaker 1: with this problem. So the good news is today on 32 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 1: this show, we'll meet some scientists and some experts who've 33 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:58,600 Speaker 1: dedicated their lives to understanding these creepy crawleys and also 34 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:00,960 Speaker 1: finding ways to get them out of our hair. And 35 00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:04,720 Speaker 1: of course we'll also discover some truly surprising facts about lice, 36 00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:07,840 Speaker 1: including how they helped solve a long standing mystery about 37 00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:12,839 Speaker 1: human evolution, and also why you can't ground them. And 38 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:15,800 Speaker 1: if you are someone in your household currently has lice, 39 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:18,440 Speaker 1: do not worry. We'll get into the science of what 40 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:20,959 Speaker 1: you should do and what you should do to deal 41 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:46,360 Speaker 1: with them. So let's dive in. Hey their podcast listeners, 42 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:49,080 Speaker 1: welcome to Part Time Genius. I'm Monga's Shatiicular and today 43 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:52,880 Speaker 1: I'm joined by my producer, Mary Super producer Mary, I 44 00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:55,840 Speaker 1: should say, and over there on the other side of 45 00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 1: the soundproof glass drinking a big glass of whey and vinegar. 46 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:02,360 Speaker 1: It is our pal and producer, Dylan Fagan. 47 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:05,160 Speaker 2: I don't mean to yuck Dylan's yell. 48 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:08,240 Speaker 1: Oh you should, but yuck, that's so gross. 49 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:08,760 Speaker 3: I know. 50 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:12,240 Speaker 1: The concoction does not sound appealing at all, but according 51 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:15,880 Speaker 1: to a book of medical remedies written around sixteen hundred, 52 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:19,280 Speaker 1: it is a sure fire away to kill lice, and 53 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:22,400 Speaker 1: it's a lot simpler than another remedy that the same 54 00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:25,880 Speaker 1: book suggests, taking powdered scrapings from the horn of a 55 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 1: red deer, drinking some of it and sprinkling the rest 56 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:32,480 Speaker 1: on your head. I don't know. 57 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:33,960 Speaker 2: I feel like these things would just give you a 58 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:36,200 Speaker 2: stomach ache, although maybe that would distract you from being 59 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:38,200 Speaker 2: itchy at least, was that the idea. 60 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:42,080 Speaker 1: Maybe. What is interesting, though, is that even now in 61 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:44,800 Speaker 1: twenty twenty five, there are still a lot of weird, 62 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:48,600 Speaker 1: unproven home remedies floating around on the Internet. I found 63 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 1: posts telling people to wrap their heads in duct tape 64 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:54,400 Speaker 1: or rub hot sauce on their hair, which I do 65 00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:57,120 Speaker 1: not think is a good idea. There's also an old 66 00:03:57,160 --> 00:04:00,280 Speaker 1: myth that kerosene kills lice, and that one's not just weird, 67 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:03,680 Speaker 1: it's also dangerous. There have been multiple cases of people 68 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 1: suffering severe burns after applying kerosene and then getting too 69 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:09,840 Speaker 1: close to a pilot light or a cigarette. I mean, 70 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:10,440 Speaker 1: it's awful. 71 00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:13,640 Speaker 2: Oh God, that is awful. Look, I understand the impulse 72 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 2: because if you or your kids have lice, you will 73 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:18,719 Speaker 2: try anything to get rid of them. And I should 74 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:22,400 Speaker 2: know because I have had lice three times as an adult. 75 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:25,320 Speaker 2: I'll say it here for everyone listening. I managed to 76 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:27,479 Speaker 2: avoid it my entire childhood, but I have a school 77 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:30,839 Speaker 2: age child of my own now, and I guess we 78 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:34,800 Speaker 2: could say my luck ran out. Our first experience with 79 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:38,320 Speaker 2: lice was two years ago and it was completely miserable. 80 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:41,200 Speaker 1: Well, I can commiserate it, because you're definitely not alone. 81 00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 1: I also have school age children, and my families had 82 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:47,719 Speaker 1: lice so many times now. It is the worst and 83 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:51,000 Speaker 1: also something I just don't understand, because, like you, it's 84 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:52,400 Speaker 1: something I never got as a kid. 85 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:54,919 Speaker 2: Well, you know, as it happens. I know all about 86 00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:57,800 Speaker 2: that because on the show, we do research. We talked 87 00:04:57,839 --> 00:04:59,800 Speaker 2: to experts, that's what we do. So I took the 88 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 2: already of calling up the real expert on your family's 89 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:06,400 Speaker 2: lice situation. I am referring to our friend of the show, 90 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:09,040 Speaker 2: occasional writer for the show, your wife, Lizzie. 91 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:12,240 Speaker 1: I don't like this at all. 92 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:17,520 Speaker 2: Tell me about the first time you guys had lace. 93 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:19,920 Speaker 4: What happened the first time is what has happened every 94 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:24,039 Speaker 4: single time since then, which is that all three of 95 00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:27,240 Speaker 4: us get at ruby, Henry and me and Monkish does 96 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:28,599 Speaker 4: every single time. 97 00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:32,320 Speaker 2: Do you resent Mangush for not getting lace one hundred percent? 98 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:34,960 Speaker 5: And he has like he'll do these theories about, oh, 99 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 5: it's the kind of hair I have, And I'm like, no, 100 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:43,320 Speaker 5: because our children share, you know, some of your hair qualities. 101 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:46,159 Speaker 4: It's just that they they rub up all over me 102 00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:48,880 Speaker 4: and they just do that to Mungash in the same way. 103 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:50,480 Speaker 4: So it's like, that's kind of all it is. 104 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 1: Oh man, I just remember one of those times, I 105 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 1: was like, Henry, were you close to anyone's head or 106 00:05:57,200 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 1: do you know anyone who was itching? And he didn't 107 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:02,080 Speaker 1: think of anyone when I asked him, you know, he 108 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:03,720 Speaker 1: was like four or five at the time. And then 109 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:06,479 Speaker 1: later he was telling me about this game he knew 110 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:09,560 Speaker 1: friends played where and part of the game involved pressing 111 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 1: your forehead against another kid's forehead to share thoughts and 112 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:15,720 Speaker 1: then run away. And it was so horrified. It was like, 113 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:18,520 Speaker 1: I asked you both these things specifically, and you were 114 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:19,240 Speaker 1: playing a game that. 115 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:22,000 Speaker 2: Basically you said ahead. You didn't say fourhead. 116 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:24,960 Speaker 1: That's true, but I mean he basically could have built 117 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:27,200 Speaker 1: a bridge from his head to his friend's head. It's 118 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 1: just to like encourage the lights to walk over. But 119 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:35,160 Speaker 1: I remember a nurse examining our hair in our classrooms 120 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:37,400 Speaker 1: as a kid and telling us that certain hair was 121 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:40,160 Speaker 1: more resistant to lice. And I'm sure that's what I 122 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:41,919 Speaker 1: said to Lizzie at some point when she was just 123 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:43,640 Speaker 1: exasperated with me. 124 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 2: Well, I mean, that would be nice, But scientifically speaking, 125 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:49,320 Speaker 2: there's not a lot of evidence for that. What we 126 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:52,479 Speaker 2: know is that anyone with hair can get lce, and 127 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:55,640 Speaker 2: direct physical contact head to head or forehead to forehead 128 00:06:55,680 --> 00:06:58,719 Speaker 2: in your kid's case, is what makes it happen. Data 129 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:02,240 Speaker 2: from schools have found really or social patterns of life's transmission. 130 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:05,279 Speaker 2: So for example, a kid with lice might not spread 131 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:07,040 Speaker 2: it to the kid who sits right next to them 132 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 2: in class, but they do spread it to their best 133 00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:12,040 Speaker 2: friend who sits on the other side of the room, 134 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:16,000 Speaker 2: because at recess those kids are closer. Maybe they're hugging 135 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:20,200 Speaker 2: or leaning their heads together to talk or transmit ideas telepathically. 136 00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:24,520 Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, that makes sense. But are you saying everyone's 137 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 1: risk of getting lice is the same if head to 138 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:28,520 Speaker 1: head contact is equal. 139 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:32,920 Speaker 2: Not necessarily. It's possible lice may have a harder time 140 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:36,000 Speaker 2: gripping hair shafts that are naturally kinky or curly, and 141 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:38,640 Speaker 2: there have been some studies that have found lower rates 142 00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:43,640 Speaker 2: of infestation among Black Americans compared to Americans of other ethnicities, 143 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:47,160 Speaker 2: but that could also be related to different grooming practices, 144 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 2: different hair care products. On the flip side, there's some 145 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:53,480 Speaker 2: data and anecdotal report suggesting that there are people who 146 00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:57,720 Speaker 2: are super spreaders of lice, that is, they have lice more. 147 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:00,880 Speaker 2: But whether that means they're more likely to get them 148 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:03,040 Speaker 2: or to have a harder time getting rid of them, 149 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:06,120 Speaker 2: we just don't know either way. The bottom line is, 150 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:08,160 Speaker 2: if you learn nothing else from this show, it is 151 00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:10,920 Speaker 2: that no one is totally immune to lie. If you 152 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:12,600 Speaker 2: have hair, you can have lice. 153 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:16,480 Speaker 1: Got it, So no more bragging about my miraculous lice immunity. 154 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:21,160 Speaker 1: That's a mosquitoes love me so like, it's not all bugs, 155 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:23,600 Speaker 1: it's just lice that seemed to have woin me. But 156 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:27,280 Speaker 1: it's interesting that there are all these unanswered questions about 157 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 1: who might be at greater risk for lice, Like, is 158 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:31,600 Speaker 1: that a big area of research right now? 159 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:34,360 Speaker 2: Well, there certainly are scientists who are really interested in 160 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:36,600 Speaker 2: this stuff, But the fact is, head lice are not 161 00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:40,679 Speaker 2: a big priority for research funding. They're considered an annoyance, 162 00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:44,080 Speaker 2: not a real medical problem, which I totally understand. But 163 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:46,920 Speaker 2: the first time you find a lous in your kid's hair, 164 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:49,120 Speaker 2: it sure feels like a real problem. 165 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:49,800 Speaker 3: Oh my god. 166 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:52,360 Speaker 1: I know. Before we go any further, I think we 167 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:54,880 Speaker 1: should clarify that for most of this episode we are 168 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:58,760 Speaker 1: talking about human head lice. There are actually three types 169 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:02,640 Speaker 1: of human lice, pubic lice or crab lice. Those are 170 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:05,600 Speaker 1: distantly related to head lice and body lice. They're kind 171 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 1: of their own thing. And then body lice are very 172 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:11,599 Speaker 1: closely related to head lice, but they took a fascinating 173 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:15,640 Speaker 1: evolutionary detour that's made them different in a few critical ways. 174 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:18,679 Speaker 1: Body lice feed on our blood, just like head lice do. 175 00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:21,200 Speaker 1: But they figured out how to live and lay their 176 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:24,080 Speaker 1: eggs in our clothing instead of our skin or our hair, 177 00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:27,760 Speaker 1: and that actually helped solve a long standing mystery about 178 00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:31,720 Speaker 1: human evolution, the question of when people began wearing clothes. 179 00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 2: I never thought about that question before, but now I 180 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:35,640 Speaker 2: want to know the answer. 181 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:39,160 Speaker 1: Well, for a long time, the best estimate we had 182 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:42,240 Speaker 1: was that it happened sometime between forty thousand and three 183 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:45,160 Speaker 1: million years ago, so there's a huge gap in there. 184 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:47,000 Speaker 2: That's not really a satisfying answer. 185 00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:49,920 Speaker 1: It doesn't really answer the question. But the problem is 186 00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:54,080 Speaker 1: early clothing was handmade from animal hide stuff that decayed easily, 187 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:58,360 Speaker 1: so there's really no record for modern scientists to study. Then, 188 00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 1: in twenty ten, came up with a much more specific 189 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:04,679 Speaker 1: time frame for the advent of clothing, and they did 190 00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:08,640 Speaker 1: this by analyzing DNA sequences of body lice and head lice. 191 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:11,560 Speaker 1: They were able to determine that body lice emerged as 192 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:14,920 Speaker 1: a distinct ecotype of head lice at least eighty three 193 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 1: thousand years ago, and possibly as early as one hundred 194 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:21,079 Speaker 1: and seventy thousand years ago, which means that's the period 195 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:24,719 Speaker 1: when humans began wearing clothing, because otherwise there would have 196 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:27,920 Speaker 1: been no evolutionary incentive for lice to change. And it 197 00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:29,880 Speaker 1: turns out we have a lot more to learn from 198 00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:34,320 Speaker 1: ancient lice. I can sum it up in a single word, archaeoparasitology. 199 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:37,360 Speaker 2: That feels like it should be multiple words. That's one word. 200 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:43,120 Speaker 1: I know it's too long to be three scrapple bingos, 201 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:45,599 Speaker 1: but it is exactly what it sounds like. It's the 202 00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:48,559 Speaker 1: study of parasites in the context of archaeology, So that 203 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:52,440 Speaker 1: means looking at how parasites affected ancient people and even 204 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:56,800 Speaker 1: studying evidence of parasites in mummies. Now, thanks to this discipline, 205 00:10:56,800 --> 00:11:00,200 Speaker 1: we know that lice were widespread in prehistoric times. The 206 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:03,680 Speaker 1: oldest direct record of lice infestation is a ten thousand 207 00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:07,080 Speaker 1: year old intact louse egg that was found in a 208 00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:08,560 Speaker 1: Brazilian mummy's hair. 209 00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:12,520 Speaker 2: Wow, so that's thousands of years before the inscribed louse 210 00:11:12,559 --> 00:11:14,200 Speaker 2: comb I told you about at the top, and even 211 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:18,160 Speaker 2: more thousands of years before Dylan's vinegar and waite concoction. 212 00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:20,920 Speaker 2: So what did people do back then to get rid 213 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:21,680 Speaker 2: of lice? Do we know? 214 00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:25,120 Speaker 1: Yeah? In prehistoric times, one of the most common ways 215 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:27,720 Speaker 1: of dealing with lice was to simply pick them out 216 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:30,200 Speaker 1: of people's hair and eat them. And we know that 217 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:33,559 Speaker 1: happened because adult lice have been found in copper lights, 218 00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:38,280 Speaker 1: which is of course fossilized extrement, which is gross. Yeah, 219 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:40,560 Speaker 1: but it's also kind of wonderful, right, Like, the historic 220 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:42,640 Speaker 1: record is written in places where a lot of us 221 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:45,720 Speaker 1: would never really think to look. So I'm grateful for 222 00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:48,320 Speaker 1: the people who dig through it, literally, and I'm also 223 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:50,600 Speaker 1: grateful that I don't have to eat my kid's lice. 224 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:53,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, we've come a long way. We've come a long way. Well, 225 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:56,640 Speaker 2: speaking of which, I want to fast forward from prehistoric 226 00:11:56,720 --> 00:12:00,920 Speaker 2: to medieval times because during the Middle Ages, people developed 227 00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:04,599 Speaker 2: some pretty wacky theories about where lice and other parasites 228 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:08,839 Speaker 2: come from. They didn't understand how transmission happened, so they 229 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:13,600 Speaker 2: concluded that lice were the result of spontaneous generation. In 230 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:17,320 Speaker 2: other words, they believed lice originated in so called corrupt 231 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:20,599 Speaker 2: matter like dirt and bodily fluids, which is how he 232 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 2: got the idea that having lice is a sign of 233 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:25,600 Speaker 2: bad hygiene, an idea that's kind of still around today, 234 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:28,120 Speaker 2: even though we know it's really not true. But there 235 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:30,839 Speaker 2: was another way of looking at lice. Back then, some 236 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:36,560 Speaker 2: people viewed lice infestation as proof of humility and moral goodness, so. 237 00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:38,800 Speaker 1: They actually thought that lice were a good thing. 238 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:42,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, because holy men and women often gave up grooming 239 00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:45,959 Speaker 2: along with other worldly concerns, so if they got lice, 240 00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:48,640 Speaker 2: instead of removing them, they would just ignore them, which 241 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:51,920 Speaker 2: of course meant they spread. There was actually this bishop 242 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:55,839 Speaker 2: named Thomas Decantelope, that was his name, who was canonized 243 00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:59,000 Speaker 2: in thirteen twenty, and during that process some of his 244 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:02,440 Speaker 2: servants testify on his behalf that he was always covered 245 00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:04,440 Speaker 2: in lice, and this was meant to prove that he 246 00:13:04,559 --> 00:13:07,120 Speaker 2: was a true man of God who didn't allow himself 247 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:10,640 Speaker 2: to be distracted by frivolous things like combing his hair. 248 00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:13,680 Speaker 1: That sounds absolutely miserable. 249 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:16,480 Speaker 2: That was the point. But just how miserable Bishop to 250 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:20,560 Speaker 2: Cantelope was would depend on his immune system, because the 251 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:23,480 Speaker 2: itching we experience when we have lice is an allergic 252 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:26,800 Speaker 2: reaction to the lous bites, and some people have milder 253 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:29,800 Speaker 2: reactions than others. In fact, some people don't really itch 254 00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:32,319 Speaker 2: at all, which of course makes it easier for them 255 00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:35,240 Speaker 2: to spread lice because they are not immediately aware that 256 00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:35,920 Speaker 2: they have them. 257 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:40,000 Speaker 1: I mean, I think my son ished his head a lot, 258 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:44,800 Speaker 1: but Ruby didn't really, And I mean I remember thinking like, 259 00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:47,560 Speaker 1: how can there be so many lice? Heer in not 260 00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:48,319 Speaker 1: scratching harder. 261 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:51,120 Speaker 2: My kid was the same way. I was so itchy. 262 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:53,880 Speaker 2: I couldn't sleep when I had lice because I was 263 00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:57,120 Speaker 2: itching so badly. Meanwhile, my kid is just walking around 264 00:13:57,120 --> 00:13:59,800 Speaker 2: and he actually did have more lice than I did 265 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:02,880 Speaker 2: in the final tally. But I just must be more 266 00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:05,480 Speaker 2: sensitive to the bites, you know, like some people get 267 00:14:05,559 --> 00:14:08,760 Speaker 2: itchier with a mosquito bite than other people. It's just 268 00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:09,800 Speaker 2: your immune system. 269 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:13,000 Speaker 1: Well, I was definitely scratching a lot, just knowing that 270 00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:15,960 Speaker 1: my kids had lice and I didn't have any. But 271 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:18,320 Speaker 1: the good news is there are ways to deal with 272 00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:21,800 Speaker 1: lice that don't involve vinegar, kerosene or becoming a saint. 273 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:24,160 Speaker 1: And after this quick break, we're going to hear from 274 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:27,960 Speaker 1: a scientist. He invented something called the lausbuster, and we'll 275 00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 1: learn how a common skincare product makes lice explode. So 276 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:49,920 Speaker 1: don't go anywhere. Welcome back to a very itchy episode 277 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:52,400 Speaker 1: of Part Time genius. I know this is a weird 278 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:54,640 Speaker 1: thing to say when we're talking about lice, but if 279 00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:57,520 Speaker 1: you enjoy what you're hearing, please leave us a nice 280 00:14:57,600 --> 00:14:59,800 Speaker 1: rating and review and share this episode with a friend. 281 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:02,440 Speaker 1: If you know anyone who's a parent of school age kids, 282 00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:06,320 Speaker 1: I guarantee they'll want to hear this part at least. Okay, Mary, 283 00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:09,440 Speaker 1: So here's something I learned about back when my kids 284 00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:12,160 Speaker 1: first Got Life, and that is the fact that a 285 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:14,480 Speaker 1: lot of the over the counter a chemical products just 286 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:18,120 Speaker 1: don't work. In fact, my friend Nick, who grew up 287 00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:21,280 Speaker 1: closer to my age, he said that he used to 288 00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:23,160 Speaker 1: Get Life so much that his friends used to call 289 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:25,200 Speaker 1: him Nix because there was a product called Nicks. 290 00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:25,600 Speaker 6: Yeah. 291 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:29,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's still on the lind Yeah. But I 292 00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:31,040 Speaker 1: looked into it and it turns out that lies have 293 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:35,000 Speaker 1: developed resistance to the insecticides that were used for years 294 00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:38,920 Speaker 1: to treat people like Nick. And this is just a 295 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:41,240 Speaker 1: natural thing that happens. And we see this with other 296 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:44,400 Speaker 1: bugs too. For example, farmers often have to come up 297 00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:48,480 Speaker 1: with solutions when pests develop resistance to common ag pesticides. 298 00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:54,120 Speaker 1: Another analogy, and one that's really serious, is antibiotic resistance, 299 00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:56,440 Speaker 1: right you hear about this all the time, But these 300 00:15:56,480 --> 00:16:00,520 Speaker 1: examples all follow the same evolutionary principle. Some bo are 301 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:03,920 Speaker 1: able to survive exposure to chemicals or drugs, and they 302 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:08,080 Speaker 1: pass that hardiness onto their offspring, and over time those 303 00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:11,480 Speaker 1: traits just get stronger and stronger. The resistance spreads through 304 00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:13,800 Speaker 1: the population and it's awful for us. 305 00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:16,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no, I've heard about this. In the case 306 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:19,120 Speaker 2: of antibiotic resistance, I know it can have really serious 307 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:20,560 Speaker 2: public health consequences. 308 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:23,960 Speaker 1: Yeah. So, Luckily, headlights are different in that they don't 309 00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:27,120 Speaker 1: carry disease. So even if your drug store shampoo doesn't work, 310 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:30,040 Speaker 1: having headlights won't make you sick. It just really makes 311 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:33,640 Speaker 1: you itchy. Now, body lies are a different story. Remember 312 00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:35,840 Speaker 1: we talked about how they evolve the ability to live 313 00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:38,960 Speaker 1: in our clothes instead of our hair. Well, somewhere along 314 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:42,560 Speaker 1: the way they also managed to become disease vectors. So, 315 00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:47,120 Speaker 1: during World War One, a disease called trench fever affected thousands, 316 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:50,240 Speaker 1: maybe even millions, of troops, and doctors discovered later that 317 00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:52,640 Speaker 1: it was caused by a bacteria carried by the common 318 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:56,320 Speaker 1: body loss, which flourished in the crowded conditions of trench 319 00:16:56,360 --> 00:16:59,920 Speaker 1: warfare now. Dale Clayton at the University of Utah is 320 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:03,400 Speaker 1: an evolutionary biologist and life expert, and he told us 321 00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:06,640 Speaker 1: that this tiny but important difference is something he spends 322 00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:08,400 Speaker 1: a lot of time thinking about. 323 00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 6: One of the most pressing questions about human life is 324 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:17,280 Speaker 6: why do we have life that vector nasty things, that 325 00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 6: live primarily in clothing but still take blood males from 326 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:26,239 Speaker 6: humans and life that are technically the same species that 327 00:17:26,320 --> 00:17:29,280 Speaker 6: live on the heads of one out of four school 328 00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:32,840 Speaker 6: kids all across the country, and one is dangerous and 329 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:36,320 Speaker 6: the other is basically harmless. And how long will it 330 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:42,840 Speaker 6: take before head life evolves the ability to vector nasty things? 331 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:47,160 Speaker 6: Will that ever happen? It could happen in ten years 332 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:49,160 Speaker 6: or a million years, We don't know. 333 00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:52,440 Speaker 2: Okay, First of all, I realize it is the scientific 334 00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:55,480 Speaker 2: term for what lifess do, but taking blood meals from 335 00:17:55,560 --> 00:18:00,399 Speaker 2: humans sounds like the tigeline for a horror movie. I'm 336 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:03,199 Speaker 2: to have chills just thinking about this. But and second, 337 00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:06,240 Speaker 2: this is actually terrifying. Is he saying that headlights could 338 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:08,080 Speaker 2: evolve the ability to make us sick? 339 00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:12,520 Speaker 1: Yeah? I mean it is possible. There's no indication it's happening, right, now, 340 00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:15,399 Speaker 1: but this is the kind of thing evolutionary biologists have 341 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:18,200 Speaker 1: to consider, which is why it's in our best interest 342 00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:21,600 Speaker 1: to have a really effective way of treating headlince. But 343 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:24,240 Speaker 1: to back up for a second, Dale actually does most 344 00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:27,080 Speaker 1: of his work with feather lice that live on birds. 345 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:31,240 Speaker 1: Unlike human headlights, they don't take blood meals. They eat feathers, 346 00:18:31,359 --> 00:18:33,880 Speaker 1: which is pretty wild to think about, and he's been 347 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:37,119 Speaker 1: working with feather lice for decades. In fact, when he 348 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:39,639 Speaker 1: was a grad student, he named a new species of 349 00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:43,760 Speaker 1: owl feather laughs, after the cartoonist Gary Larson, who was 350 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:45,960 Speaker 1: so excited that he drew a picture of it and 351 00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:49,240 Speaker 1: published it in his nineteen eighty nine book The Prehistory 352 00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:50,200 Speaker 1: of the Far Side. 353 00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:52,639 Speaker 2: I wasn't sure where that was going, but that is 354 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:54,560 Speaker 2: not where I thought we would end up. I do 355 00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:56,879 Speaker 2: love it, though. What a strange honor to have a 356 00:18:56,960 --> 00:18:57,879 Speaker 2: laus named after you. 357 00:18:57,880 --> 00:18:59,679 Speaker 1: It's kind of wonderful, it really is. 358 00:18:59,760 --> 00:18:59,800 Speaker 7: So. 359 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:03,360 Speaker 1: As a veteran life expert, of course, Dale knew about 360 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:07,520 Speaker 1: human headlights developing resistance to insecticides, but he wasn't focused 361 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:10,240 Speaker 1: on finding a treatment for them until his own kids 362 00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:12,800 Speaker 1: got lice and he realized he didn't know what to do. 363 00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:16,880 Speaker 6: My wife was kind of angry because she says, you're 364 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:18,840 Speaker 6: all the world authorities on lice and you don't even 365 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:20,439 Speaker 6: know how to get rid of lice on our kids. 366 00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:22,760 Speaker 6: What's going on? So that was a motivator. 367 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:26,320 Speaker 1: I should note here that he's referring to his first wife. 368 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:30,000 Speaker 1: This is actually relevant to this discussion because his second 369 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:34,040 Speaker 1: wife also studies lie. They've even named species of lice 370 00:19:34,119 --> 00:19:35,080 Speaker 1: after their kids. 371 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:40,400 Speaker 2: The dinner table conversations at the Clayton household must be fascinating. 372 00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:44,160 Speaker 1: I think they probably are. Anyway, Dale's pondering his kids 373 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:46,600 Speaker 1: head lice, and then he remembers a weird problem he 374 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:48,920 Speaker 1: had back when he first moved to Utah. And this 375 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:50,920 Speaker 1: was after teaching in the Midwest and the UK. 376 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:55,480 Speaker 6: I discovered, to my dismay, I couldn't keep lice alive 377 00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:58,600 Speaker 6: on pigeons here, and it took about a year to 378 00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:01,000 Speaker 6: figure out that the reason is it's too arid. 379 00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:04,760 Speaker 1: So what's interesting is that lice can't live in tanks 380 00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:07,879 Speaker 1: or petri dishes. They can only survive on a living host. 381 00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:10,919 Speaker 1: So when Dale was setting up his lab at the 382 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:13,479 Speaker 1: University of Utah, he got a bunch of pigeons so 383 00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:16,639 Speaker 1: you could study their feather lice. And the pigeons were fine. 384 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:20,400 Speaker 1: The feather lice were not. Since they aren't blood sucking lice. 385 00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:23,520 Speaker 1: They rely on moisture from the air for hydration, and 386 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:26,280 Speaker 1: the air in Utah is really dry, so the only 387 00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:29,240 Speaker 1: way to keep his lab lice alive was to modify 388 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:32,760 Speaker 1: the ambient humidity. So when drug store shampoos failed his 389 00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:35,480 Speaker 1: own kids, it occurred to him that maybe dry air 390 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:38,200 Speaker 1: could be the key to killing headlights that are resistant 391 00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:39,880 Speaker 1: to all the chemical treatment. 392 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:44,440 Speaker 6: And so we started tankeering with different approaches. The University 393 00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:47,480 Speaker 6: of Utah is one of the best universities in the 394 00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:53,800 Speaker 6: country for entrepreneurial work. There's money for researchers to try 395 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:59,000 Speaker 6: weird things, get like pre med students involved in those projects, 396 00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:03,160 Speaker 6: and so we started pursuing this possibility of using heated air, 397 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:06,440 Speaker 6: and after a while we figured out how to make 398 00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:09,800 Speaker 6: it work, and then we got bigger dings to develop 399 00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:11,320 Speaker 6: an actual medical device. 400 00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:16,359 Speaker 1: Dale and his team called their invention the Lousebuster. The 401 00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:20,320 Speaker 1: name has since been changed to air Alay because of 402 00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:23,360 Speaker 1: a trademark issue, but the way it works is it 403 00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:26,280 Speaker 1: blows heated air through a hose that's attached to an 404 00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:29,600 Speaker 1: applicator that you comb slowly through your hair. 405 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:31,840 Speaker 2: So like a very precise hair dryer. 406 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:34,680 Speaker 1: Kind of, but instead of blowing air over the hair, 407 00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:37,040 Speaker 1: it's actually getting down to the surface of your head 408 00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:39,840 Speaker 1: where the lice are. And more importantly, it's getting to 409 00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:43,000 Speaker 1: the eggs, which lice glue to hair shafts right next 410 00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:46,159 Speaker 1: to the scalp. And the temperature is carefully calibrated to 411 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:48,600 Speaker 1: dry out the lice without burning your skin. In the 412 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:51,480 Speaker 1: test he did with local kids living in Salt Lake City, 413 00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:54,720 Speaker 1: Dale found that his device killed live lice and it 414 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:57,920 Speaker 1: prevented the eggs from hatching. It took over a year 415 00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:00,680 Speaker 1: to dial in the right temperatures and tree in juration, 416 00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:03,800 Speaker 1: but it finally became this viable medical device. 417 00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:05,760 Speaker 2: So wait, is this something I can just go buy 418 00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:08,160 Speaker 2: and keep at home in case we ever get lice again? 419 00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:10,280 Speaker 1: You know, I had the same thought, But it would 420 00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:13,359 Speaker 1: actually be pretty expensive as a consumer device, and you 421 00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:15,240 Speaker 1: do need to be trained to use it correctly. But 422 00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:18,920 Speaker 1: Dale licensed the Airla device to this network called Lyfe's 423 00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:21,840 Speaker 1: Clinics of America. This is not an AD, but they 424 00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:24,240 Speaker 1: have locations around the country and people with lice can 425 00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:25,800 Speaker 1: make an appointment to go in for treatment. 426 00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:28,199 Speaker 2: Wow, I wish I had known about that when we 427 00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:31,399 Speaker 2: had lice, well like you and Lizzie and Dale Clayton 428 00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:34,160 Speaker 2: and millions of other people who have dealt with head lice. 429 00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:37,600 Speaker 2: The first thing I tried was a drug store shampoo 430 00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:40,880 Speaker 2: and a little plastic comb that came with it. Both 431 00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:45,320 Speaker 2: of these things were completely useless. Luckily, I do nitpicky 432 00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:47,920 Speaker 2: research for a living, so I dove into the literature 433 00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:51,639 Speaker 2: on lice and emerged with an idea one hundred percent 434 00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:53,640 Speaker 2: food grade dimethicone. 435 00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:55,040 Speaker 1: Wait, so what it is is? 436 00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:57,879 Speaker 2: So it's a type of silicone that's often used in 437 00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:01,159 Speaker 2: cosmetics as a skin protectant. Does is It forms a 438 00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:05,040 Speaker 2: protective barrier that locks in moisture, and it really doesn't 439 00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:08,480 Speaker 2: have a lot of downsides. It's not toxic, it's not flammable, 440 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:11,400 Speaker 2: it's totally inert. It can even be an ingredient in 441 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:14,400 Speaker 2: cooking oils. You can actually consume it. So the way 442 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:16,359 Speaker 2: I got rid of our life was by coating my 443 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:19,280 Speaker 2: head and my kid's head in a generous, sticky pore 444 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:22,480 Speaker 2: of dimethicone, let it sit for a while, did a 445 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:25,399 Speaker 2: thorough combing and then washed it out. That was actually 446 00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:29,360 Speaker 2: the hardest part because it is so thick, so slippery 447 00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:32,600 Speaker 2: and water resistant. It took like four rounds of washing 448 00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:33,280 Speaker 2: to get out. 449 00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:36,639 Speaker 1: It sounds like an oil slickers. Yeah, how does this 450 00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:40,320 Speaker 1: stuff kill lice? Like, if it's non toxic, does it 451 00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:41,879 Speaker 1: suffocate them? Or what's happening? 452 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:43,919 Speaker 2: Well, that's what I assumed was happening, that they were 453 00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:47,080 Speaker 2: drowning or suffocating. But I wasn't sure, so I called 454 00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:50,160 Speaker 2: up Ian Burgess, a world renowned scientist and the director 455 00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:54,280 Speaker 2: of a company called Insect Research and Development that investigates 456 00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:57,600 Speaker 2: ways of controlling insects that impact public health, like lice. 457 00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:00,439 Speaker 2: But before we get to the science, you should know 458 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:04,320 Speaker 2: that Ian has an interesting perspective on lace. 459 00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:08,800 Speaker 3: When I was a master's student, I opted to work 460 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:13,040 Speaker 3: on crab or cubic lice because I felt sorry for 461 00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:16,440 Speaker 3: them because nobody had actually done any work on them 462 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:21,120 Speaker 3: really for about forty five fifty years before that. 463 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:23,520 Speaker 2: You felt sorry for the pubic lace? 464 00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:24,440 Speaker 7: Yeah? 465 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:24,879 Speaker 3: Why not? 466 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:25,280 Speaker 2: Okay? 467 00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:30,960 Speaker 3: And if you've been ignored scientifically, surely they werenant some sympathy. 468 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:35,960 Speaker 1: I don't know if I quite share his perspective, but 469 00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:38,440 Speaker 1: I guess I do understand whying to study the things 470 00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:39,600 Speaker 1: that everyone else overlooks. 471 00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:41,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, And when it comes to lice, a lot 472 00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:45,400 Speaker 2: of people overlook them. Not Ian, though, So I asked 473 00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:48,679 Speaker 2: him when I poured dimethicone on my head, did I 474 00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:49,800 Speaker 2: suffocate the lice? 475 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:55,600 Speaker 3: It's almost impossible to suffocate a loss. You can put 476 00:24:55,640 --> 00:25:00,520 Speaker 3: them in an environment without breath of oxygen for quite 477 00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:03,200 Speaker 3: a long time. I've had lices that have been immersed 478 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:06,800 Speaker 3: in water for twelve hours, so clearly they can't breathe. 479 00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:11,000 Speaker 3: You can take them out and dry them off, warm 480 00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:14,480 Speaker 3: them up, and pack their backside so they will walk away. 481 00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:19,199 Speaker 1: Wait, that is unbelievable. Underwater for twelve hours and they 482 00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:21,760 Speaker 1: are totally fine. How do lies do that? 483 00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:25,520 Speaker 2: Well, to drastically oversimplify it, they enter something like a 484 00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:29,399 Speaker 2: power saving mode. But it just goes to show you 485 00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:32,040 Speaker 2: that head lies are really not easy to kill. And 486 00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:34,879 Speaker 2: to explain why damethicone does kill them, I have to 487 00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:38,520 Speaker 2: tell you a little bit about laus anatomy. So human 488 00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:42,080 Speaker 2: headlights feed on blood, which is mostly water. For most creatures, 489 00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:46,520 Speaker 2: consuming liquid eventually leads to urination, but head lice only 490 00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:50,359 Speaker 2: produce dry feces. And Ian told me that's because peeing 491 00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:52,560 Speaker 2: on our heads would alert us to their presence a 492 00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:53,200 Speaker 2: lot faster. 493 00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:56,919 Speaker 1: Right, That is not a sense I was expecting you 494 00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:59,280 Speaker 1: to say this episode. 495 00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:03,800 Speaker 2: We're full of surprise today. Okay, So they can't pee, right, 496 00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:05,720 Speaker 2: The lyuse can't pee, but they still need to get 497 00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:08,119 Speaker 2: rid of liquid waste, so they do it through a 498 00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:14,360 Speaker 2: process called spiracular transpiration. Now, spiracles are tiny respiratory openings 499 00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:17,480 Speaker 2: on the louse's exoskeleton that lead to the trachea or 500 00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:21,480 Speaker 2: the airway, and they help maintain this very precise equilibrium 501 00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:24,720 Speaker 2: where excess water in the louse's body goes into the 502 00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:28,520 Speaker 2: trachea and then out through the spiracles. What the dmethicone 503 00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:32,199 Speaker 2: does is it coats and plugs these little openings so 504 00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:35,600 Speaker 2: nothing can get in and crucially, nothing can get out. 505 00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:38,439 Speaker 2: The louse doesn't know this. Its body is trying to 506 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:41,800 Speaker 2: pump extra water into the trachea, but it has nowhere 507 00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:44,960 Speaker 2: to go, so it flows back into the gut. And 508 00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:48,280 Speaker 2: after a little while this throws off the equilibrium completely 509 00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:51,920 Speaker 2: and all that extra pressure just builds up inside. 510 00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:56,880 Speaker 3: And if the louse had fed just before it was coated. 511 00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:01,040 Speaker 3: In fact, you can see the louse gut explode. 512 00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:04,159 Speaker 1: I mean, it is stunning that you didn't suffocate your 513 00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:07,240 Speaker 1: lives but you blew them up instead. Yeah. 514 00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:10,320 Speaker 2: Technically, yeah, there is one caveat here, and that is 515 00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:14,200 Speaker 2: Dimethicone can kill live lice, but it cannot kill knits. 516 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:16,720 Speaker 2: It can't kill the eggs. So if you just do 517 00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:19,520 Speaker 2: one treatment, any eggs left in your hair. 518 00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:22,680 Speaker 1: Will hatch and then you'll be overwhelm with lice again. 519 00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:25,960 Speaker 2: Well not right away, so it takes eggs up to 520 00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:28,960 Speaker 2: ten days to hatch, and lice can't reproduce until they 521 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:32,399 Speaker 2: are about eleven to fourteen days old. Obviously, you have 522 00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:34,560 Speaker 2: no way of knowing the age of all the knits 523 00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:36,640 Speaker 2: in your hair. You don't have like a little louse 524 00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:39,480 Speaker 2: sensus that you can refer to. But you can kill 525 00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:42,920 Speaker 2: the newly hatched lice before they reach maturity with a 526 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:46,399 Speaker 2: little careful planning. So here's what you do. After your 527 00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:49,600 Speaker 2: first dimethicone treatment, wait five days and do it again. 528 00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:52,720 Speaker 2: You'll kill anything that hatched in those days directly following 529 00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:56,440 Speaker 2: that initial application. Then you wait five more days and repeat. 530 00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:59,639 Speaker 2: That should ensure that all the eggs have hatched, but 531 00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:01,680 Speaker 2: none of the living lice are old enough to lay 532 00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:04,520 Speaker 2: eggs on their own, and of course you can use 533 00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:06,840 Speaker 2: a good comb to remove nits and lice in between 534 00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:08,920 Speaker 2: these applications for extra peace of mind. 535 00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:12,600 Speaker 1: I mean, I have to say, you sound like a 536 00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:13,880 Speaker 1: full time life's genius. 537 00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:16,040 Speaker 2: I wish I could take credit for all of this, 538 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:18,720 Speaker 2: but the truth is, everything I know about this dimethicone 539 00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:21,480 Speaker 2: treatment schedule I learned from a woman in Wisconsin who 540 00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:25,360 Speaker 2: is basically the Martha Stewart of lice, and will get 541 00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:43,040 Speaker 2: to meet her after this quick break. Welcome back to 542 00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:46,000 Speaker 2: a lousy episode of Part Time Genius. So mangush. We've 543 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:47,520 Speaker 2: touched on this a little bit, but I want to 544 00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:50,120 Speaker 2: get into it some more. And that is the emotional 545 00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:53,200 Speaker 2: impact of having lice. When I spoke to Lizzy, I 546 00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:56,800 Speaker 2: told her how I had an existential crisis the first 547 00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:58,440 Speaker 2: time we got lis. I just I didn't know what 548 00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:01,360 Speaker 2: to do. There was all this conflict information online. I 549 00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:04,040 Speaker 2: read one thing that said I needed to bag up 550 00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:06,600 Speaker 2: all my kid's toys and bedding and seal it away 551 00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:09,880 Speaker 2: for ten days. My kid was upset and embarrassed. It 552 00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:12,880 Speaker 2: just felt so overwhelming, and at some point I remember 553 00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:15,920 Speaker 2: sitting on the bathroom floor, like why, why us, Why 554 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:20,680 Speaker 2: me why now right? I felt crazy and Lizzie was like, no, no, 555 00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:22,400 Speaker 2: you're not crazy. I get it. 556 00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:25,680 Speaker 5: There are dangerous places my mind can definitely go to, 557 00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:30,920 Speaker 5: like how is this tiny, tiny thing alaos is tiny 558 00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:32,320 Speaker 5: and it is tinier. 559 00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:35,600 Speaker 4: How can they like wreak so much havoc and like 560 00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:37,040 Speaker 4: take me down? 561 00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:39,880 Speaker 5: You know, a bear is more likely to like kill me, 562 00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:43,640 Speaker 5: I guess, but this lous is still really out my life. 563 00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:47,440 Speaker 1: I mean that is so true. Oh my god. Every 564 00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:50,640 Speaker 1: time we got lies, it was such an ordeal and 565 00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:52,360 Speaker 1: it felt like, why is this happening? He was you 566 00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:55,640 Speaker 1: feel dirty, you get stripped the beds. We took all 567 00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:58,000 Speaker 1: the stuffed animals away and then spent hours in the 568 00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:00,720 Speaker 1: bathroom with little kids who did not want it's still 569 00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:03,360 Speaker 1: putting thick shampoo into their hair and trying to comb 570 00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:06,880 Speaker 1: out the eggs and it was just so miserable and 571 00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:09,040 Speaker 1: you think you're done and then it happens again. But 572 00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:11,560 Speaker 1: you know, eventually we got rid of them by going 573 00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:15,040 Speaker 1: to a professional lice combing service here in Brooklyn. But yeah, 574 00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:16,760 Speaker 1: it's just one more thing you have to deal with 575 00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:19,680 Speaker 1: and figure out, and for busy parents, it's just the worst. 576 00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:23,160 Speaker 1: And even though you know lice are harmless. There's such 577 00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:25,400 Speaker 1: a stigma that you don't want your kids to give 578 00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:27,520 Speaker 1: it to others. You feel like you haven't taken care 579 00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:29,800 Speaker 1: of your kids. It really can take a toll. 580 00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:32,400 Speaker 2: It can, and that is where Laurie Moyer comes in. 581 00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:35,720 Speaker 2: Laurie runs a life's treatment center in Wisconsin, but she 582 00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:38,440 Speaker 2: reaches hundreds of thousands of people all around the world 583 00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:40,880 Speaker 2: through social media. She has over one hundred and twenty 584 00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:44,880 Speaker 2: seven thousand followers on TikTok, where she posts videos demystifying 585 00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:48,880 Speaker 2: lice and teaching proper combing techniques, and she's basically the 586 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:52,120 Speaker 2: all powerful voice of reason on the Our Life's subreddit, 587 00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:55,760 Speaker 2: where every day anxious people post questions about how to 588 00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:58,040 Speaker 2: tell if this thing they found is allows and what 589 00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:00,760 Speaker 2: to do if it is actually Now Laurie's read it 590 00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:03,280 Speaker 2: posts about dimethicone. When I was panicking the first time 591 00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:06,400 Speaker 2: we had lice, she was just so patient and calm 592 00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:09,400 Speaker 2: and detailed in her responses. It made me feel for 593 00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:12,560 Speaker 2: the first time like maybe I could handle this. And 594 00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:14,280 Speaker 2: when I talked to her on the phone for this episode, 595 00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:17,040 Speaker 2: she told me that keeping people calm is a big 596 00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:17,800 Speaker 2: part of her job. 597 00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:22,600 Speaker 7: What I see happening quite often is someone will get 598 00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:26,280 Speaker 7: a notice from their child's daycare or their child's school 599 00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:28,640 Speaker 7: that there is a case of lice, a confirmed case 600 00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:33,520 Speaker 7: of lice, and then they become panicked. It just spirals 601 00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:37,400 Speaker 7: into complete chaos, and I try to talk people, you know, 602 00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:37,880 Speaker 7: back down. 603 00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:42,520 Speaker 2: Part of that panic, Laurie says, comes from misunderstanding lice 604 00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:45,440 Speaker 2: and how they live. A lot of people think, like 605 00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:47,560 Speaker 2: you did, that having life means they have to deep 606 00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:50,719 Speaker 2: clean their whole house and throw out the clothes, vacuum 607 00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:52,920 Speaker 2: the furniture, bag up the toys. Of course, that's going 608 00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:53,640 Speaker 2: to feel daunting. 609 00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:54,520 Speaker 1: Now. 610 00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:57,120 Speaker 2: Some lives can survive for a few hours on surfaces 611 00:31:57,120 --> 00:31:59,920 Speaker 2: that aren't human heads. But here's the thing, they're not bad. 612 00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:02,640 Speaker 2: They really can't live very long without us. 613 00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:06,600 Speaker 7: And I liken it to being a human being an 614 00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:09,800 Speaker 7: outer space. Right, if you were up in a rocket ship, 615 00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:13,840 Speaker 7: a capsule, whatever, But if you were up beyond the 616 00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:19,040 Speaker 7: Earth's atmosphere, could you potentially open that hatch and go 617 00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:23,200 Speaker 7: out into outer space? You could, sure, But why wouldn't 618 00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:27,000 Speaker 7: you because you couldn't survive there. There's no oxygen there, 619 00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:29,480 Speaker 7: you couldn't survive. So the same is true for headlights. 620 00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:31,760 Speaker 7: They need your head to survive, and if they were 621 00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:34,960 Speaker 7: to come off the head, it's either because they're dying 622 00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:38,400 Speaker 7: or dyed, or maybe you disturbed your hair in some 623 00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:40,280 Speaker 7: way that knocked them off the head. But they're going 624 00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:42,000 Speaker 7: to just crawl back in the hair if they can. 625 00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:45,800 Speaker 7: They certainly aren't readily walking off of a human head 626 00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:47,600 Speaker 7: to go on a squish mellow. 627 00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:50,800 Speaker 1: I mean, I would be lying right now if I 628 00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:54,240 Speaker 1: said I wasn't picturing a tiny louse in an astronaut suit. 629 00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:55,360 Speaker 7: Yeah. 630 00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:57,240 Speaker 2: I think we all are. I think we all are. 631 00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:00,200 Speaker 1: You know this might sound weird, but this episode has 632 00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:02,840 Speaker 1: kind of made me, I don't want to say fond 633 00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:05,040 Speaker 1: of lies, but I certainly respect them more than I 634 00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:06,800 Speaker 1: did before we started learning all this stuff. 635 00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:09,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, same, Ian Burgess actually had a really wonderful way 636 00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:10,400 Speaker 2: of putting this. 637 00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:16,680 Speaker 3: These animals have lived on humans since humans began, and 638 00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:21,920 Speaker 3: their forebears before that, and throughout that time, to varying degrees, 639 00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:24,640 Speaker 3: we have tried to get rid of them, and they've 640 00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:29,600 Speaker 3: survived every one of those challenges and they're still doing 641 00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:32,440 Speaker 3: it and there are still so many things we need 642 00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:35,160 Speaker 3: to learn about them. If you ever looked down a 643 00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:41,120 Speaker 3: microscope at a little louse going about its business. It's 644 00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:44,400 Speaker 3: a fascinating, really actually quite beautiful thing. 645 00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:47,680 Speaker 1: Oh I love that. I mean, if my kids get 646 00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:49,920 Speaker 1: lies again, I'll want to get rid of them, for sure. 647 00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:52,360 Speaker 1: But now I'm kind of wondering, like, does that mean 648 00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:54,640 Speaker 1: I want to get rid of all this? I'm not 649 00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:55,400 Speaker 1: totally sure. 650 00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:57,680 Speaker 2: I'm so glad you brought that up, because I asked 651 00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:01,760 Speaker 2: Ian that exact question. What would happen or what would 652 00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:04,720 Speaker 2: change in the world if we woke up tomorrow and 653 00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:07,080 Speaker 2: all human had lives were gone? 654 00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:09,359 Speaker 3: Nothing, as far as I know, other than the fact 655 00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:12,720 Speaker 3: that we would have had an extinction. I mean, it's 656 00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:16,879 Speaker 3: a This is a marable question, isn't it? 657 00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:17,239 Speaker 2: Is it? 658 00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:18,000 Speaker 3: Yes? 659 00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:18,440 Speaker 4: It is? 660 00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:23,880 Speaker 3: I think Yeah. It's an ethical question anyway, What apart 661 00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:27,560 Speaker 3: from our squeamishness, what right have we to decide that 662 00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:34,280 Speaker 3: life are less valuable than something else? Okay, we consider 663 00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:40,640 Speaker 3: ourselves or humans consider themselves the peak of evolution. But 664 00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:43,839 Speaker 3: where do you draw the line? Okay, a louse may 665 00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:48,760 Speaker 3: not be what you want, but then what about, say, 666 00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:53,839 Speaker 3: something like a worm in your gut? Parasitic worms can 667 00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:58,239 Speaker 3: often eliminate on certainly on a temporary basis for allergies. 668 00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:01,000 Speaker 3: So they have a function, and it could be that 669 00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:03,879 Speaker 3: lice have a function. We just haven't pinned it down yet. 670 00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:06,480 Speaker 2: I never thought of that. But you know, we go 671 00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:10,120 Speaker 2: back to school in September, and if we get lice again, 672 00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:13,799 Speaker 2: I feel like I'll be much more emotionally prepared for it. 673 00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:21,640 Speaker 3: Love your Lice. Well, there was a school we went to. 674 00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:26,279 Speaker 3: We've done coming in schools for years, and there was 675 00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:28,760 Speaker 3: one school we went to where the kids are about 676 00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:33,279 Speaker 3: six years old. Some of the kids cried because they 677 00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:36,960 Speaker 3: didn't have lice and their friends did, and the ones 678 00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:40,919 Speaker 3: who had lice then had disagreements as to who had 679 00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:41,840 Speaker 3: the best lice. 680 00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:47,200 Speaker 2: Oh my god, kids are the best. That's so funny. 681 00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:49,759 Speaker 2: My life could beat up your life. My life are 682 00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:50,759 Speaker 2: faster than your life. 683 00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:55,640 Speaker 3: Sure so, in fact, all the fear and hatred and 684 00:35:56,680 --> 00:36:00,920 Speaker 3: squeamishness and things about life come from adults, not from children. 685 00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:05,560 Speaker 3: Children only feel bad about life because adults thrust this 686 00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:06,320 Speaker 3: upon them. 687 00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:09,400 Speaker 2: Okay, can we make part time genius t shirts that 688 00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:10,600 Speaker 2: say love your lice? 689 00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:16,040 Speaker 1: Absolutely not. That is too far, But you know what 690 00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:17,879 Speaker 1: we can do. We can head down to the rec 691 00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:20,319 Speaker 1: Center to sum up everything we've learned today about what 692 00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:23,400 Speaker 1: to do if you or someone in your house has lice. 693 00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:41,239 Speaker 1: Step one, remain calm. Headlights are a nuisance, but they 694 00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:44,520 Speaker 1: are not dangerous, and there's really nothing to be embarrassed about. 695 00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:47,680 Speaker 1: At any given moment. Millions of people have lice, so 696 00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:49,480 Speaker 1: you're definitely in good company. 697 00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:53,960 Speaker 2: Step two. Buy a good quality metal nitcomb and check 698 00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:56,279 Speaker 2: online for videos that show the right way to use it. 699 00:36:56,600 --> 00:36:59,040 Speaker 2: The comb I used and the one Laurie Morier recommends, 700 00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:02,240 Speaker 2: has a round handle and lots of long, thin teeth 701 00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:04,880 Speaker 2: with little grooves that help snag the lice and eggs. 702 00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:08,200 Speaker 2: And actually, if you have school age kids, Laurie suggests 703 00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:11,640 Speaker 2: doing regular comb throughs with the nitcomb as a preventative measure, 704 00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:14,040 Speaker 2: because if you catch an infestation early, it is so 705 00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:15,760 Speaker 2: much easier to treat and contain. 706 00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:19,440 Speaker 1: Step three, figure out your treatment plan. You can search 707 00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:22,360 Speaker 1: for a professional lyce clinic in your area or DIY 708 00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:25,239 Speaker 1: with dimethicone, but you don't need to throw out your 709 00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:28,279 Speaker 1: clothes or spend days deep cleaning like we did. And 710 00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:31,600 Speaker 1: it's probably not worth bothering with those drug store shampoos either. 711 00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:33,400 Speaker 1: They just don't work that well anymore. 712 00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:36,759 Speaker 2: Step four. If you're using dimethicone at home, like I did, 713 00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:39,719 Speaker 2: be sure to follow the schedule exactly. Apply on day one, 714 00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:42,600 Speaker 2: day five, and day ten. Oh and I asked Lauri 715 00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:44,600 Speaker 2: if it's possible to do this if you have braids 716 00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:46,360 Speaker 2: or locks you don't want to take out, and she 717 00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:48,920 Speaker 2: said yes, you can apply the domethicone directly to the 718 00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:51,520 Speaker 2: scalp without undoing them, but you will need to wash 719 00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:53,960 Speaker 2: it out. Speaking of which, here is a bonus tip 720 00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:57,000 Speaker 2: from me. A person with long thick care, regular shampoo 721 00:37:57,040 --> 00:37:59,560 Speaker 2: did not cut through the dimethicone very well, so I 722 00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:02,239 Speaker 2: handed up U sing Don dish soap. It worked, but 723 00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:04,480 Speaker 2: it is very rough on your hair, so use plenty 724 00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:05,600 Speaker 2: of conditioner afterwards. 725 00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:10,360 Speaker 1: Well, Marry, since you've battled lized yourself and I've always 726 00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:13,600 Speaker 1: escaped unscathed, I think you deserve today's trophy. 727 00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:16,560 Speaker 2: You know what, I'll take it. It means the suffering 728 00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:17,320 Speaker 2: was worth something. 729 00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:22,400 Speaker 1: I'm glad you have that justification. Well, that does it 730 00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:24,840 Speaker 1: for today. We will be back next week with another 731 00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:26,800 Speaker 1: new episode. In the meantime, you can send us a 732 00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:31,160 Speaker 1: message by emailing High Geniuses at gmail dot com. That's hi. 733 00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:34,279 Speaker 1: Geniuses at gmail dot com or give us a call 734 00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:38,120 Speaker 1: at three oh two, four oh five, five nine two five. Seriously, 735 00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:40,960 Speaker 1: give us a call. We love hearing your messages. Sometimes 736 00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:43,160 Speaker 1: we play them on the show. We love to get 737 00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:45,759 Speaker 1: more of them. Special thanks to everyone we spoke with 738 00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:50,040 Speaker 1: for this episode, and from Will, Dylan, Gabe, Mary, and myself. 739 00:38:50,480 --> 00:39:05,840 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening. Part Time Genius is 740 00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:09,680 Speaker 1: a production of Kaleidoscope and iHeartRadio. This show is hosted 741 00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:13,960 Speaker 1: by Will Pearson and Me Mongish Heatikler and researched by 742 00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:18,319 Speaker 1: our goodpal Mary Philip Sandy. Today's episode was engineered and 743 00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:22,040 Speaker 1: produced by the wonderful Dylan Fagan with support from Tyler Klang. 744 00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:25,920 Speaker 1: The show is executive produced for iHeart by Katrina Norvell 745 00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:29,080 Speaker 1: and Ali Perry, with social media support from Sasha Gay, 746 00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:33,600 Speaker 1: trustee Dara Potts and buy Me Shoring. For more podcasts 747 00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:38,440 Speaker 1: from Kaleidoscope and iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 748 00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:53,680 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.