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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to cool people who did cool stuff.

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Speaker 1: You were twice a week reminder that when we fight,

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Speaker 1: we win, not always like win the fight itself, but

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Speaker 1: fighting is winning because it's refusing to be beaten down.

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Speaker 1: That's what this podcast is about. I'm your host, Margaret Kiljoy,

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Speaker 1: and with me today is Shrine Unas. Yeah that's me,

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Speaker 1: Hi yay, and not with us today the producer Sophie. Sophie,

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Speaker 1: she is still very sick, and I hope she's feeling okay,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, yeah, she will be missed. But now we

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Speaker 1: can say anything we want. I know, like I can

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Speaker 1: finally tell everyone about the time that I and then

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Speaker 1: there were six of them and only three of us.

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Speaker 1: But then and I don't know, I haven't been the

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Speaker 1: same since. Well, So thank you so much for telling

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Speaker 1: me that that's really vulnerable of you. I really appreciate

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Speaker 1: you opening up about the experience. And I'm the audience

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Speaker 1: knows now too, because I feel like they're going to

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Speaker 1: be so much closer to you, I know, and I

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Speaker 1: feel like it's like I've been meaning to get it

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Speaker 1: off my chest since the pocket, like it's important context.

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Speaker 1: So Ian is our audio engineer and our theme music

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Speaker 1: was written for us by an women and this week

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Speaker 1: we are continuing the story from last week, the story

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Speaker 1: of Stonewall. Well, in a lot of ways, we're telling

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Speaker 1: the story kind of around Stonewall, since the story of

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Speaker 1: Stonewall itself is fairly well known, although it's still worth

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Speaker 1: telling again. So I'll tell it too, but I highly

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Speaker 1: recommend you go back and not you sharing you you

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Speaker 1: were there, but anyone who hasn't heard it should go

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Speaker 1: back and listen to parts one and two. Margaret's right

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Speaker 1: because similar to most things in history, there's like a

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Speaker 1: singular event sometimes that gets so much attention, and knowing

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Speaker 1: all the other events that led up to that mountain

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Speaker 1: sometimes is really helpful because it's not just like one

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Speaker 1: day it changed, right, And I think it's really helpful

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Speaker 1: to know everyone else the fall so hard before the

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Speaker 1: big event that's in your history books, I guess you know. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Plus you get to hear about someone with a parrot

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Speaker 1: beating up NIVB Yes, and a cheetah right or leopard

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Speaker 1: leopard Yeah, I like to think that leopard fucked some

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Speaker 1: transphobes up. I mean, you have to go out with

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Speaker 1: the bang, I'm sure so yeah, I mean, like I

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Speaker 1: feel safer with my forty pound dog near me. Imagine

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Speaker 1: how much safer you feel as a trans person when

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Speaker 1: you're a fucking leopard invincible. Yeah, that should that should

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Speaker 1: be like band guns, legalized leopards. That's my take, leopards

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Speaker 1: for queers. Yes, exactly. So now that we've sort of

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Speaker 1: set the scene, not with the talking about leopards, but

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Speaker 1: you know, the larger thing. We haven't set New York scene,

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Speaker 1: but we've set the scene LGBT shit in the US

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Speaker 1: in the fifties and sixties. And I know that every

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Speaker 1: city is like unique and beautiful and cool, but like

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Speaker 1: in the broadest sense of New York City was one

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Speaker 1: of the other major cities during all this What I'm

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Speaker 1: trying to say is the New York City is extra

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Speaker 1: unique and cool. Social oppression pushed more and more queers

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Speaker 1: into big cities during all this time, right, and to

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Speaker 1: go back to like the twenties and shit prohibition meant

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Speaker 1: that since bars were illegal anyway, all the illegal shit

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Speaker 1: tends to hang out together. So gayness was more present

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Speaker 1: overall in the drinking culture in New York because all

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Speaker 1: the bars are illegal. So it makes sense what's one

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Speaker 1: more illegal thing? Yeah, and so we're going to start

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Speaker 1: today with Okay, not the like showiest person, but like

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Speaker 1: probably my favorite person. Wow, from all of this, Eva

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Speaker 1: could more favorite than Frank Frankton. Shit, poor guy, he's

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Speaker 1: wanting to be an astronomer. I just feel for that

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Speaker 1: when someone some peaceful marches. Yeah he tried, you tried, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Eva Cotchever, or, as he's often remembered, Eve Adams. She

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Speaker 1: is a Jewish lesbian anarchist who moved from Poland to

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Speaker 1: New York in nineteen twelve. She spoke seven fucking languages. Well,

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Speaker 1: and I think she moved with her partner, but I'm

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Speaker 1: not one hundred percent certain on that. I read one

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Speaker 1: thing that said that she did, and soon enough. Her

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Speaker 1: job in the US, she's a traveling like door to

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Speaker 1: door salesperson, saleswoman who sells anarchist magazines. This is in

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Speaker 1: the sixties, no, the nineteen twenties, twenty okay, sorry sorry, yeah, yeah, no, no,

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Speaker 1: it's okay, So in the nineteen twenties and the nineteen

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Speaker 1: tens actually, And when she first moves there, she's like

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Speaker 1: traveling around being like selling Emma Goldman's Mother Earth and

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Speaker 1: if you want to hear more about that, listened to

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Speaker 1: our episode on birth control pioneers. And so she's distributing

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Speaker 1: these like illegal underground newspapers and shit everywhere, probably in

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Speaker 1: a bunch of different languages I assume at least Yiddish

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Speaker 1: and English and a couple other. She goes to Chicago

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Speaker 1: for a while, she lives there for a while, and

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Speaker 1: she makes her living teaching Russian. So I guess that's

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Speaker 1: another one of her seven languages. Well, and she runs

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Speaker 1: a gay literary salon called the Gray Room. Wow, she

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Speaker 1: does a lot of six stuff. I want to be

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Speaker 1: a polygon and have a gray Room. Well, I know,

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Speaker 1: I know. That's like I always think about this whenever

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Speaker 1: people are like, what's yours? What if you could have

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Speaker 1: a superpower would it be? I don't want to fly.

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Speaker 1: I want to be invisible. I want to know every

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Speaker 1: language in the world, and that would be the best superpower.

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Speaker 1: Like I there are so many and there's no way

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Speaker 1: I could learn even like a handful of them in

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Speaker 1: my lifetime. Well enough, yeah, but that is the best superpower.

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Speaker 1: So all of the polygots out there, you're doing it right.

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Speaker 1: You're doing it right. Just I agree, And one of

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Speaker 1: my biggest frustrations is that, like I'm a jack of

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Speaker 1: all trades and I can't have a conversation in any

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Speaker 1: language but English. I can like read enough Spanish to

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Speaker 1: like not be fucked over, and if I'm inn like,

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Speaker 1: and I've like used Spanish as my like language in

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Speaker 1: other countries that aren't like Italy. In France, I get

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Speaker 1: around with my Spanish and stad of my English or whatever,

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Speaker 1: but I don't speak it well enough. And I'm so

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Speaker 1: good at learning shit, and I'm so bad at learning languages.

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Speaker 1: So much I know and so like just so much

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Speaker 1: respect for everyone who puts in net work and like

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Speaker 1: So from nineteen twenty one to nineteen twenty three, she

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Speaker 1: lives in Chicago and she runs the gay literary salam

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Speaker 1: The Gray Room, And then she moves back to New

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Speaker 1: York and she publishes a book. She's really subtle about

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Speaker 1: what she's about. The book is called Lesbian Love Wow Wow. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: not subtle. Anarchists are not known for being shy about

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Speaker 1: Her name is Eve too, Like it's so so ironic.

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Speaker 1: Her name is Eve. I love it, yeah totally. So.

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Speaker 1: In nineteen twenty five, she opens what might be the

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Speaker 1: first lesbian bar or even gay bar in the United States.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of people being like, oh, the first bar,

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Speaker 1: or these bars like one in New Orleans and I

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Speaker 1: think one in the Bay or whatever. But those are

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Speaker 1: in the thirties, and I think that what is happening

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Speaker 1: here is that people aren't counting prohibition era ones because

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Speaker 1: they speakeasies, so they're not like legal bars. I don't

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Speaker 1: fucking care what's legal. Yeah, it's all made up, yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: It is completely unrelated to what's ethical. Um. So she

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Speaker 1: opens what might be the first gay bar in the

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Speaker 1: United States, and it's called Eve's Hangout or Eve Adams's

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Speaker 1: Tea Room. Adams two is great, what a great name.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, Yes, I know, I know she spells

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Speaker 1: her name at least in this context with two d's,

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Speaker 1: So Adams like the Adams family. This is the second

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Speaker 1: anarchist queer connection to the Adams family that I've made.

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Speaker 1: We talked about in the episode up about Up against

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Speaker 1: the Wall, motherfuckers, But the woman who played Granny Adams

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Speaker 1: in the nineteen ninety one one was a queer anarchist

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Speaker 1: pacifist m wow, like theater person from a connection from

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Speaker 1: the nineteen sixties. Who was a good connections Yeah, who

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Speaker 1: was a big part of inspiring a lot of the

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Speaker 1: subcultural shit that the hippies did through the up against

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Speaker 1: the wall motherfuckers. Wow, yeah, that's so cool. I know

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Speaker 1: Adam's family secretly like why I actually always thought they

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Speaker 1: were cool, but secretly like anarchists too. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: And so an Eva gets called the Queen of the

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Speaker 1: third sex because the third sex was yet another way

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Speaker 1: of describing gay folks at the time. I see that

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Speaker 1: all more time, the third sex, the third sex, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: was a way that people would talk about there's like

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Speaker 1: men women in gays interesting, m Yeah, and it's one day.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. When I do more of a nineteenth

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Speaker 1: century homosexuality episode will like dive more into and I

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Speaker 1: will know more about exactly how third sex relates to yah,

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Speaker 1: homophile and all of these other things that are going on. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So they didn't mean it, but it's biological sex. Obviously

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Speaker 1: they made it more like like what did they what

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Speaker 1: does what does they mean by sex? Back then? So

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Speaker 1: I don't This is the part I don't totally get,

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Speaker 1: but I'm under the impression by third sex they meant

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Speaker 1: like kind of like, yeah, third sexuality interesting, but also

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Speaker 1: I think that they kind of understood it as this

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Speaker 1: like in it thing, this like part thing that's part

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Speaker 1: of you, so it's also a thing that you like.

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Speaker 1: It's basically if you're if you can be bored with

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Speaker 1: the sex of a woman, you can be born the

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Speaker 1: third sex too, So that's kind of like I think,

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Speaker 1: so not too bad. No, and the third sex was

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Speaker 1: not a pejorative. I believe. I believe it was used

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Speaker 1: by um, by the gay movement. That's cool. Yeah, No,

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Speaker 1: it's gonna be really funny when one hundred years from

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Speaker 1: now people are like, and this podcast host she was

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Speaker 1: a transgender woman, which is I know it sounds kind

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Speaker 1: of fucked up to say, but you have to understand

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Speaker 1: in twenty twenty three, you know, like, because the way

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Speaker 1: that we think about sex and gender is constantly changing.

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Speaker 1: And that's totally fucking fine. That's so true. It's so true.

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Speaker 1: Um just kidding this time we got it right and

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Speaker 1: everyone else is wrong. So um. Yeah, this club, it's

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Speaker 1: definitely ten years earlier than Mona's for forty club in

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Speaker 1: San Francisco, which is open in nineteen thirty six. And

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Speaker 1: gets called the first lesbian bar. It depends on definitions.

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Speaker 1: This one also in a lot of ways, it was

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Speaker 1: less of a bar. It was almost certainly a speakeasy.

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Speaker 1: Most tea rooms were coded as we're just speakeasies, And

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Speaker 1: it's usually described as a speakeasy. But it's more of

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Speaker 1: an event space, and it's like a place to go

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Speaker 1: to poetry discussions and shit than it is to get

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Speaker 1: drunken dance. Love that. Yeah, I know, i'd like actually

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Speaker 1: do a way better at this. I mean I would rather.

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Speaker 1: I mean I always say I'm not a big drinker

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Speaker 1: or bar person, but just put me into like a

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Speaker 1: tea room or poetry place, like that's the ship. You know,

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Speaker 1: that should be more normalized. I really think about that

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Speaker 1: every time. That's seldom times I have to go out.

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Speaker 1: I just want to go to a bookstore and drink

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Speaker 1: some tea. That should be normalized. I don't need to

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Speaker 1: go to a freaking bar and pretend to like alcohol.

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Speaker 1: I agree. And so there's this sign up at this bar.

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Speaker 1: Maybe probably not, but historically this is the story. It's

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Speaker 1: probably apocryphal, which is sad because sometimes our enemies make

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Speaker 1: up the coolest things about us. You know, this was

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Speaker 1: like yeah, like like the lavender lads. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: And in this case, the news articles that were like

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Speaker 1: condemning this place claim that there's a sign up at

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Speaker 1: the bar that says men are admitted but not welcome.

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Speaker 1: Thank you. Yeah, you know, we rule. Do they work

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Speaker 1: for us? I know? Yeah. The same source that claims

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Speaker 1: the sign existed was a nineteen twenty six article in Variety,

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Speaker 1: and it basically the rest of the article is like,

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Speaker 1: this place is an evil sex den where Mannish women

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Speaker 1: prey on our innocent girls. So she runs a cool

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Speaker 1: lesbian bar, an important social center for New York's bohemian

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Speaker 1: scene and for immigrants and lesbians and working class intellectuals.

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Speaker 1: It's a popular after theater club. A lot of the

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Speaker 1: big writers at the time, Henry Miller and Nias Ninn,

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Speaker 1: all those people are hanging out at this place. But

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Speaker 1: then an NYPD vice squad kind of killed her in

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Speaker 1: a roundabout way, in a roundabout way. But I blame

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Speaker 1: the vice squad for her death because she was a

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Speaker 1: Jewish lesbian anarchist, right, And that is literally three Nazi

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Speaker 1: death sentences. Yeah, each one of those is enough to

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Speaker 1: die from the Nazi point of view, and so some

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Speaker 1: piece of shit undercover woman cop not the only time

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Speaker 1: that a woman lesbian cop is going to come up

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Speaker 1: bad in the stories. This week, she goes into the

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Speaker 1: place and she declares it a den of sin or whatever.

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Speaker 1: Like theoretically, is a couple different ways of stories heard

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Speaker 1: like either like Eva's like, yo, check out my book

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Speaker 1: Lesbian Love, What's up? Or the cop like goes on

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Speaker 1: this like elaborate date with her and like goes with

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Speaker 1: her to hotel and shit, And I've no idea if

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Speaker 1: they bang either way. At the end of it, because

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Speaker 1: Eva like possibly might have hit on this cop, she's

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Speaker 1: arrested for obscenity and she's deported from the United States

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Speaker 1: to Portland and so I po poland even worse, um

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Speaker 1: well at the time in nineteen twenty seven, she's deported

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Speaker 1: to Poland. Oh shit, and she she gets by for

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Speaker 1: a while. She she moves to Paris. She makes her

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Speaker 1: money selling naughty books to American tourists, which rules, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's possible. I read like one line that claimed, but

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Speaker 1: with no further information, that she went to Spain to

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Speaker 1: throw down in that whole Spanish Civil War thing. That.

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Speaker 1: You can listen to me talking too about with Jamie

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Speaker 1: Loftus if you want to hear more about that. Yea.

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Speaker 1: Then came back to Paris after that whole thing fell,

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Speaker 1: and then she tried to get out of Europe, right

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Speaker 1: because she's a it's a really bad time to be

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Speaker 1: a three strikes girl, right, and the US won't let

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Speaker 1: her in and she couldn't raise enough money to get

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Speaker 1: herself to Palestine, which is like, you know, the only

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Speaker 1: other place to try and get herself as a Jew.

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Speaker 1: Her and her partner were arrested by the Nazis in

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Speaker 1: nineteen forty three and they both died Noschwitz. Well, so

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Speaker 1: I blame that fucking cop straight up who went in

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Speaker 1: and then trapped her. God, that just really proves to

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Speaker 1: show that you can be anything. You can be. You

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Speaker 1: can be a woman, you can be gay, you can

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Speaker 1: be black. If you're a cop, that trumps everything in

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Speaker 1: my opinion, you know what I mean, Like it doesn't

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Speaker 1: matter how like marginalized you are if you choose to

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Speaker 1: be a cop. To me, that that trumps everything because

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Speaker 1: that happens, yeah, because you've you've chosen what position you

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Speaker 1: want to have in the systems. Of oppression and power. Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: Well that's so fucked up. Yeah, she looks have been

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Speaker 1: pretty young too, right like she I think she was

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Speaker 1: in her forties when she does, I know, I know,

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Speaker 1: but it's yeah, god, that's so that's tragic. Well I'm glad. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: she had a good run. Yeah, that's cool. Do you

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Speaker 1: think she's Do you think her bar was not considered

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Speaker 1: the first bar because it wasn't legal back then and

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Speaker 1: was the first bar that you mentioned, Like, that's considered

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Speaker 1: the first bar after prohibition ended. Okay, so that's my

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Speaker 1: best guests as to why these ones don't count, because

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Speaker 1: I assume there were other ones. Actually there's even another

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Speaker 1: literally the stone Wall in was well we'll get to that, okay,

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Speaker 1: a little nugget so spoiling. Yeah, yeah, totally. But after

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Speaker 1: the war, New York City stays pretty gay. Even though

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Speaker 1: they had their mini lavender scare, you know, where they've

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Speaker 1: fired the gay teachers or whatever, it stays pretty gay,

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Speaker 1: much like San Francisco. The gay beats were a big

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Speaker 1: part of this, you know, like some of like New

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Speaker 1: York's cultural icons were like writing about how they have

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Speaker 1: gay sex and it rules, you know. William burrows and

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Speaker 1: shit like that. So the government does it's government thing,

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Speaker 1: and it starts in trapping well, I don't know if

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Speaker 1: it's started, but at this time it's in trapping gay

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Speaker 1: men and blackmailing them. It cracks down on gay people

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Speaker 1: drinking or existing in public. The liquor board starts pulling

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Speaker 1: licenses away from any business that might become disorderly. And

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Speaker 1: I'm putting scare quotes around that. Basically any bar that

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Speaker 1: is like known to be a gay bar and have

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Speaker 1: its liquor license pulled because that accounts as disorderly and so.

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Speaker 1: And there's all of these different laws at different times

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Speaker 1: that are like get kind of conflated to each other.

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Speaker 1: And I don't totally understand the timeline, but there were

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Speaker 1: laws like you're not allowed to be a woman who

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Speaker 1: drinks in public, you're not allowed to be a gay

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Speaker 1: person who you're not allowed to serve alcohol to gay people.

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Speaker 1: But sometimes these things that people say like oh, this

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Speaker 1: was the law, it's actually this was what the police enforced,

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Speaker 1: not a specific code. Of course, that's that makes sense.

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Speaker 1: That still happens today, Like what's yeah, well, yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: so absurd. So if there's no legal way for gay

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Speaker 1: folks to gather. Then they all just stop pink gay

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Speaker 1: and become heterosexual and happen. No, just kidding, they drink illegally,

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Speaker 1: enter the mafia. Oh I'm interested in this. So the

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Speaker 1: Geneva se family is the crime family is the oldest

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Speaker 1: and largest of the quote five families of organized crime

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Speaker 1: of New York City. And they're this Italian American mafia group.

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Speaker 1: They're still around. Um oh were they called the ken

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Speaker 1: Jenova essay? Um? I might be pronouncing that last name

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Speaker 1: for mafia, I know. And they're like the fucking if

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Speaker 1: you think of the Italian mafia in New York, Like,

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Speaker 1: there's several other ones, but this one's the big, biggest one. Yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: So like the Sopranos, this is like, yeah, there are

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Speaker 1: literally two people named fat Tony in this story. Well

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Speaker 1: that's that's amazing. Yeah, that's how you know they're the

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Speaker 1: top dog mafia. He thought just one, there's two fat

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Speaker 1: Yeah exactly. And so they do crime stuff, heroin dealing, gambling, rigging,

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Speaker 1: boxing matches, all that shit, running legal bars during prohibition

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Speaker 1: and after prohibition. And they are like more complicated morally

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Speaker 1: than I can easily get into one day, we'll do

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Speaker 1: an episode about how the mafia and the US government

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Speaker 1: like work together to fight fascism or whatever. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: you gotta teach me about that suit. Yeah, I'm I'm

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Speaker 1: I'm excited to learn more about it. There's this Jewish

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Speaker 1: gangster named Meyer Lanski who like organized mafia Jews to

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Speaker 1: go beat up Nazis in the US with like crowbars

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Speaker 1: and shit. Why do we learn about that stuff? That's

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Speaker 1: what I fucking that's right. Interested in fucking history with

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Speaker 1: gold Rush or whatever? The ship? Yeah, yeah, totally. And

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Speaker 1: if you get tell the story of the gold Rush,

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Speaker 1: you need to tell the story of all the like

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Speaker 1: gay lesbian prostitutes who like fucking make all their money

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Speaker 1: and like run their own bars and like don't have

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Speaker 1: pimps because you know, like yeah, another So we'll get

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Speaker 1: to I need to look that up as soon as

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Speaker 1: we're done. But that sounds incredible, and you're right, you're right. Yeah. Overall,

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Speaker 1: I'm not a big fan of the mafia or whatever,

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Speaker 1: but we all got to accept everything's complicated in the

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Speaker 1: in the fifties and the sixties at least, and I

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Speaker 1: think actually earlier than that, the mafia is running the

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Speaker 1: gay bars in New York. Mostly they do it for money.

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Speaker 1: They can charge a ton for water down, bootleg, homemade, stolen,

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Speaker 1: et cetera, liquor the radically at the Stonewall there was

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Speaker 1: like literally not a drink that wasn't watered down. I

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Speaker 1: read one thing that was like, if you knew the

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Speaker 1: right people, they'd go out back and get the like

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Speaker 1: they'd have like the bottles of liquor, and they'd be

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Speaker 1: like labeled, but it would all be lies, you know,

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Speaker 1: and they like really liked you, they go out back

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Speaker 1: and get the real I don't know enough about liquor

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Speaker 1: to give you an example of a compliment fancy liquor.

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Speaker 1: And also by running gay bars, they can extort anyone

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Speaker 1: who fucks with them because the customers are gay, and

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Speaker 1: gay people are easy to extort in a time of

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Speaker 1: shame and you know, cry or it's illegal to be gay,

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Speaker 1: they're easy targets for sure. Yeah. The mafia gets away

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Speaker 1: with this by paying off the cops. What gets called

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Speaker 1: gayola instead of payola. Wait really yeah, at least at

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Speaker 1: the time I think it was called gayola. Yeah that's

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Speaker 1: pretty funny. Yeah, yeah, no, totally. And they pay the

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Speaker 1: cops a fucking ton of money. Stonewall was paying the

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Speaker 1: cops two thousand dollars a week, which is more than

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Speaker 1: sixteen thousand dollars in today's money. WHOA, that's a that's

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Speaker 1: a fat sum. That is a fat sum of money.

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Speaker 1: And how was that was possible through the mafia? The

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Speaker 1: mafia was. Yeah, it was the money that the mafia

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Speaker 1: is making both off of the overpriced drinks, but also

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Speaker 1: they were like running other crimes out of the establishment,

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Speaker 1: mostly drug dealing. There's arguments about the level of sex

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Speaker 1: work that was happening at the at Stone Wall, but yeah, basically,

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Speaker 1: by selling overpriced drinks to gay people, they have to

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Speaker 1: turn around and pay sixty five thousand dollars a month

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Speaker 1: in modern money. Oh well, which adds so much money,

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Speaker 1: I know, it's almost it's three quarters of a million

380
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Speaker 1: dollars a year. Well, and after paying the cops so

381
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Speaker 1: much fucking money, the cops still raid the mafia bars

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Speaker 1: because they have to keep up appearances or whatever. And

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Speaker 1: also the mafia people don't care if they fuck with

384
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Speaker 1: some of the gay people, but they do it on

385
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Speaker 1: week nights, they do it early in the night and

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Speaker 1: usually they and they give a tip ahead of time

387
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Speaker 1: to the bartenders so they'll like get most liquor out

388
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Speaker 1: or like kind of give heads up to the customers.

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Speaker 1: They actually like like, hey, at seven pm today, you

390
00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:09,800
Speaker 1: don't want to be here, you know, and cops would

391
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Speaker 1: raid and they would like there's a lot of different

392
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Speaker 1: accounts of these types of raids, but usually basically it's

393
00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:18,440
Speaker 1: like they show up and like make sure you're wearing

394
00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:23,160
Speaker 1: gender appropriate clothing is like a huge one. And who

395
00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:27,480
Speaker 1: decides that just like skirts and pants that's no whatever. Well,

396
00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:30,240
Speaker 1: well no, and actually this is important because the thing

397
00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:32,280
Speaker 1: that people talk about is they say that there was

398
00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:33,919
Speaker 1: a law at the time that said you have to

399
00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:38,639
Speaker 1: have three articles of clothing that matched ther your ID marker,

400
00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:42,920
Speaker 1: Like you're on your idea. It probably wasn't a law.

401
00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:46,600
Speaker 1: It was probably the rule that the cops used. And

402
00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:48,880
Speaker 1: we'll get into some of the things that people did

403
00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:51,399
Speaker 1: to work around that. But yeah, so you mean like

404
00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:53,560
Speaker 1: three arcis of cloth if if it said, like, oh,

405
00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:55,760
Speaker 1: I'm a woman, I have to have three articles of

406
00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:58,600
Speaker 1: clothing that proved I was a woman, like quote unquote

407
00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:03,719
Speaker 1: proved Yeah, Like like who just that's so interesting to know,

408
00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:07,119
Speaker 1: like what's on each list, I wonder, Yeah, no, and

409
00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:11,760
Speaker 1: they will literally like m fondle your genitals and like

410
00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:14,640
Speaker 1: you know, expose you to everyone, and like they will

411
00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:19,199
Speaker 1: like you know, and they'll take people to jail over it,

412
00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:21,960
Speaker 1: and like you know, it's obviously never nice to be

413
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Speaker 1: in jail, and it's like extra not nice to be

414
00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:26,720
Speaker 1: a gay man in jail, and like you know, just

415
00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:30,280
Speaker 1: about one violation after the other after the other. Yeah.

416
00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:32,879
Speaker 1: And we'll talk about this a little bit more too later.

417
00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:37,240
Speaker 1: But and the cops did it because no one stopped them,

418
00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:41,240
Speaker 1: like they kind of like literally cops from this period.

419
00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:44,080
Speaker 1: We'll talk about how gay folks were like easy marks,

420
00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:46,960
Speaker 1: you know, because they were like ashamed and beaten down.

421
00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:52,640
Speaker 1: So Stonewall in it was originally called Bonnie's Stonewall with

422
00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:55,760
Speaker 1: A and stonewall was two words, and it was opened

423
00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:58,800
Speaker 1: in nineteen thirty and it claimed to be a tea room,

424
00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:02,359
Speaker 1: but it was a speakeasy. And I've read accounts to

425
00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:05,040
Speaker 1: say it was heterosexual. And I've also read accounts that

426
00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:08,159
Speaker 1: it was named after a lesbian's autobiography called the Stone

427
00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:12,320
Speaker 1: Wall from like the nineteenth century, And so I'm guessing

428
00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:15,880
Speaker 1: it started off as a lesbian bar, and it wasn't

429
00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:18,360
Speaker 1: too straight, and people just like to ignore lesbian's that's

430
00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:21,320
Speaker 1: my best guess, right, Yeah, that sounds about right. And

431
00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:23,560
Speaker 1: it might have eventually just stopped being a gay bar

432
00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:25,840
Speaker 1: before for a while, I don't know. In nineteen thirty

433
00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:28,399
Speaker 1: four it moved to Christopher Street, where it more famously is.

434
00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:33,200
Speaker 1: In nineteen sixty four it was the interior was destroyed

435
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:37,000
Speaker 1: by flames and it closed down. But do you know

436
00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:46,679
Speaker 1: what will make you flame proof? Responsored by fiberglass walls.

437
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:47,879
Speaker 1: That's a that's a great How did you How did

438
00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:50,920
Speaker 1: you land that one? That's that's pretty good. That's pretty yeah. Thanks.

439
00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:57,000
Speaker 1: I'm a professional podcaster. They teach you at podcasting Academy

440
00:23:57,160 --> 00:24:00,800
Speaker 1: how to do awkward ad transitions and try to make

441
00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:05,560
Speaker 1: them funny. Thank you, thank you. Well, actually a stone

442
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:10,480
Speaker 1: wall would make you more fire resistant. You're not wrong.

443
00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:15,160
Speaker 1: So if the next year's ad is for a masonry company,

444
00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:18,080
Speaker 1: then it's the right one. And if it's not, you

445
00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:22,120
Speaker 1: should complain to Sophie. That would make me believe in God,

446
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:30,760
Speaker 1: I think, and we're back. I hope you enjoyed the

447
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:36,240
Speaker 1: ad for all of the bricks and brick related services, only,

448
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:40,440
Speaker 1: of course, for making things more fire resistant, not proving

449
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:44,160
Speaker 1: that cops can't fuck with you easily. It's not like

450
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:47,440
Speaker 1: all of our rights that anyone has ever had started

451
00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:51,720
Speaker 1: with someone throwing bricks at cops. No, of course not.

452
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:56,240
Speaker 1: But also for the folks that did the right thing.

453
00:24:56,280 --> 00:25:00,399
Speaker 1: And listen to the first two episodes, the progress from

454
00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:05,080
Speaker 1: donuts to brick is incredible to me. Yeah, yeah, totally,

455
00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:11,080
Speaker 1: like that's just again chef's kiss for all that. Yeah.

456
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:16,360
Speaker 1: So the place burns, the interior is gutted in flames,

457
00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:20,639
Speaker 1: and it's destroyed, and it closes. Two years later, in

458
00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:24,040
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty six, the mafia bought it. Three mafia guys

459
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:26,560
Speaker 1: bought it and turned it into a gay bar. And

460
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:29,800
Speaker 1: they did. They phoned this in. They spent like a

461
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:32,960
Speaker 1: couple thousand dollars repairing the place and covering up the damage.

462
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:36,879
Speaker 1: Mostly they just painted it black and kept it dimly lit,

463
00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:43,480
Speaker 1: so just like like just concealed with darkness the damage. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

464
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:48,080
Speaker 1: They didn't bother plumbing it. There was no running water

465
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:51,600
Speaker 1: behind the bar. There was running water in the bathrooms. Okay,

466
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:54,919
Speaker 1: let's good at least, so they kept the glasses in

467
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:57,480
Speaker 1: a big tub of water and gave each one a

468
00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:01,360
Speaker 1: little rinsey rinse in the same gross tub. God um

469
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:07,560
Speaker 1: before serving it to someone else. Damn. Yeah, just think

470
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:12,159
Speaker 1: of it in COVID times. Let's just I wonder how

471
00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:14,320
Speaker 1: many people got sick? Well, no, I don't want to

472
00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:17,040
Speaker 1: think about it. Well, yeah, I'm gonna tell you anyway.

473
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:20,159
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. This was blamed in a gay newsletter at

474
00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:22,639
Speaker 1: the time for a nineteen sixty nine outbreak of hepatitis

475
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:25,320
Speaker 1: among gay men in New York City. Oh my god.

476
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:28,439
Speaker 1: It was three mafia guys who bought the place. And

477
00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:32,280
Speaker 1: it wasn't uncontentious that they decided to do this. I mean,

478
00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:35,439
Speaker 1: game mafia people did own gay bars, but it was

479
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:38,040
Speaker 1: still like a little Well, let's talk about fat Tony.

480
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:44,439
Speaker 1: Fat Tony number primary, Okay, okay, number primary. That's a number.

481
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:47,200
Speaker 1: The controlling interest was held by this guy named Tony

482
00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:50,880
Speaker 1: Lareya or Fat Tony. He was a very large man.

483
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:54,440
Speaker 1: He weighed like, you know, four hundred some pounds. Wouldn't

484
00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 1: it be funny? I just realized how funny it would

485
00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:59,800
Speaker 1: be if Fat Tony was not fat I know, right, yeah,

486
00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:05,040
Speaker 1: another level of yeah yeah, or maybe they felt pressure

487
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:08,200
Speaker 1: being named Tony to be fat yet it might have

488
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:11,320
Speaker 1: been you know, I don't know. It can go either way. Yeah,

489
00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:13,960
Speaker 1: more power to you, whatever size you want to be

490
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:17,399
Speaker 1: with any name you want. But his dad was not

491
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:19,680
Speaker 1: so excited about him. His dad, who was a mafia guy,

492
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 1: was not excited about him hanging out with the gays.

493
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:25,920
Speaker 1: Fat Tony's roommate was an openly gay Italian guy who

494
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 1: bartended at Stonewall and he was the guy who was

495
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:32,680
Speaker 1: trusted to move the money around. I haven't heard him

496
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:36,520
Speaker 1: referred to as mafia, but he lived with Fat Tony

497
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:39,399
Speaker 1: was Italian, bartended the mafia bar and was the one

498
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:41,879
Speaker 1: who was trusted to move the money around at the

499
00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:45,080
Speaker 1: very least. He's like a middleman. Yeah whatever, like and

500
00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:46,680
Speaker 1: because like one of the things is that people want

501
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:49,679
Speaker 1: to people want to downplay the mafia connection with Stonewall

502
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:55,120
Speaker 1: because they want to kind of whitewash our history. But so,

503
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:57,240
Speaker 1: because of fear of raids and such, the money was

504
00:27:57,240 --> 00:27:59,719
Speaker 1: carried home from the bar several nights a week, several

505
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:03,480
Speaker 1: several times a night. Sorry, like you know, because the

506
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:05,160
Speaker 1: cops are going to comment and still all fucking money

507
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:08,160
Speaker 1: because they're just I mean, these are basically just two

508
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:10,840
Speaker 1: crime organizations, the NYPD in the mafia, just trying to

509
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:14,320
Speaker 1: figure out delicate balance together. But Fat Tony he got

510
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:18,359
Speaker 1: very into the culture. He started shooting I know, okay,

511
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:20,560
Speaker 1: he started doing two things. He started shooting meth and

512
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:23,440
Speaker 1: he started fucking dudes. But not as roommate. That was

513
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:26,320
Speaker 1: a very important point in the book. I was reading, Um,

514
00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:31,240
Speaker 1: they stayed platonic, him and him and his roommate. Interesting

515
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:34,880
Speaker 1: that that was. Yeah, it was a important thing to note.

516
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:38,000
Speaker 1: I mean, it's nice to know that friendships French ship withstood,

517
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:42,120
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, totally, and like, I don't know, actually

518
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:43,840
Speaker 1: a weird way. It is like important, and I'll be like,

519
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:45,960
Speaker 1: whoa gay people to just be friends with each other,

520
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 1: you know exactly. Yeah, yeah, there's like a level of like, oh,

521
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:53,840
Speaker 1: like I respect you, and yeah, even though I'm doing

522
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:57,479
Speaker 1: gay things now, I still respect you. Yeah, totally totally.

523
00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:00,560
Speaker 1: Fat Tony's story is kind of tragic. A little while,

524
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:03,440
Speaker 1: I got really confused because there is another fat Tony

525
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:05,960
Speaker 1: who rises really high and prominence in the family and

526
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:08,800
Speaker 1: lives a long and healthy life, and so I was like, yeay,

527
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:14,200
Speaker 1: our Tony's doing good, not our Tony. His family stopped

528
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:17,240
Speaker 1: talking to him as a result of him being gay,

529
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:19,480
Speaker 1: or him doing drugs, or some combination of the both,

530
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:25,880
Speaker 1: and the rumor is eventually that his family killed him. No, Tony, Yeah,

531
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:28,720
Speaker 1: and I don't know. Once again, it's like when you're

532
00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:32,480
Speaker 1: a dead gay mobster, it's hard to know whether you

533
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:34,760
Speaker 1: get killed for being gay or for being a mobster

534
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:39,960
Speaker 1: or what. You know, Damn, this happens. His death happens

535
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:43,720
Speaker 1: after all the events of today. Okay, but I think

536
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:46,240
Speaker 1: his story matters because people talk about the mafia is

537
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:48,800
Speaker 1: this opportunistic thing that was ripping off gay folks. But

538
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:50,920
Speaker 1: the thing that people need to remember about any story

539
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:55,960
Speaker 1: about anything that has to do with sexual sexuality. We're everywhere,

540
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:02,600
Speaker 1: like pick a profession and there's gays doing it. Yeah,

541
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:06,640
Speaker 1: you know, um for good and bad. He wasn't the

542
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 1: only game mobster in the New York scene. Big Bobby

543
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 1: who worked the door next Big Bobby, These are great names.

544
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:19,320
Speaker 1: Big Bobby worked the door at a place called Tony Pastors.

545
00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:24,080
Speaker 1: He was in love with a Chinese drag queen named

546
00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 1: Tony Lee. Everyone is fucking named Tony. You want to

547
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:32,880
Speaker 1: say Tony, every bar, every person all Tony's all the

548
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:36,920
Speaker 1: way down. It's so funny. Isn't Tony correct wrong? Isn't

549
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:39,600
Speaker 1: it like short for Anthony? Or is that not? I

550
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:48,160
Speaker 1: think so? Or yeah maybe I think yeah, yeah, that's interesting.

551
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:51,320
Speaker 1: Tony is a wow. What a name? What a name?

552
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 1: I know. So everyone's named Tony except for a freelance

553
00:30:56,120 --> 00:31:02,320
Speaker 1: circulating bouncer named Pete. And Pete was the most exaggerated

554
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:07,800
Speaker 1: cliche archetypical Italian mobster who wore black shirts and ties.

555
00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:11,920
Speaker 1: He exaggerated his like Italian accent, which I saw referred

556
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:14,680
Speaker 1: to as a street Italian accent, which made me realize

557
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:16,800
Speaker 1: that the Italian accents of New York City are not

558
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:21,120
Speaker 1: necessarily I'm from Italy Italian. It's like Italian American accent

559
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:24,160
Speaker 1: that is a New York accent. You know. Pete was what,

560
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:26,520
Speaker 1: at least in the nineties, we called a two beer

561
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:30,239
Speaker 1: queer because he was a straight man who would then

562
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 1: get drunk, and he slept with both gay men and queens,

563
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:37,240
Speaker 1: which were sort of seen as two different sort of

564
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:39,200
Speaker 1: genders of people to sleep with in a lot of ways,

565
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:42,080
Speaker 1: much like you would now when we say queens, we're

566
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 1: talking about drag queens, but we were talking about a

567
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:47,320
Speaker 1: culture in which drag queen, trans vestite and trans women

568
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:50,880
Speaker 1: are very um. There is a spectrum there, and it

569
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 1: is a spectrum that people are often moving around inside of. Yeah,

570
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:58,000
Speaker 1: and like a lot of the queens would later come

571
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:00,160
Speaker 1: out as trans women once. The sort of way we

572
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:03,120
Speaker 1: talked about these things changed, but not all of them

573
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:06,520
Speaker 1: right And for a long time Pete was sweet. He

574
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 1: would get his partners better jobs and shit with all

575
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 1: his connections. Later he runs off out of the city

576
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:14,440
Speaker 1: with a queen and they lived as a heck couple

577
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:20,560
Speaker 1: until he freaked out and killed her. No, yeah, it

578
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:25,400
Speaker 1: pet which is why trans women have trust issues to

579
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:30,760
Speaker 1: say yeah, to say the least, wow that pet Yeah.

580
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 1: It's also just weird that this guy saying Pete, I

581
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:37,520
Speaker 1: can feel like, seriously, you know what, you'd have to

582
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:44,000
Speaker 1: take him seriously. That's kind of crime guy. Yeah. And

583
00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:46,160
Speaker 1: I also think it's telling that some of the power

584
00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:49,480
Speaker 1: players in early gay history were either revolutionists like the

585
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:52,160
Speaker 1: lesbian anarchists who opened the first bar or the gay

586
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:55,320
Speaker 1: communist who set up the first organization, or they were

587
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:58,080
Speaker 1: professional criminals like Tommy the lesbian of Fedora and a

588
00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:00,960
Speaker 1: Bar in San Francisco or Poor Fatony in New York.

589
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:05,400
Speaker 1: So Stonewall, let's talk about Stonewall it self. Okay, it's

590
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:08,480
Speaker 1: big standout feature versus all of the other gay bars,

591
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:10,400
Speaker 1: including the crime bars. While all the gay bars were

592
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:14,479
Speaker 1: crime bars, it allowed dancing. It allowed same sex dancing.

593
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:18,040
Speaker 1: All the other gay bars no same sex dancing, um,

594
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:23,080
Speaker 1: because that was for fear of like like a police action, yeah,

595
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:26,880
Speaker 1: getting shut down, getting alled at and all this shit. Um.

596
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:29,720
Speaker 1: Within Stonewall, there were two dance rooms. One was called

597
00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:31,680
Speaker 1: the White Room and one was called the Black Room

598
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:34,920
Speaker 1: in a bad way. Um, so like segregated, segregated way,

599
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:40,480
Speaker 1: so yes, but with like a little asterisk or something

600
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:42,440
Speaker 1: to make it really obvious as a race thing. The

601
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:45,720
Speaker 1: black room is also called the Puerto Rican Room. Okay,

602
00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:49,960
Speaker 1: both both rooms are painted black because they're hiring fire damage.

603
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:54,200
Speaker 1: But it wasn't formally segregated. It was kind of culturally segregated,

604
00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:57,760
Speaker 1: and it was culturally segregated along race lines. But even

605
00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:00,120
Speaker 1: more than that, at least as it's been presented it

606
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:02,760
Speaker 1: as I see it, as I've seen it, it's segregated

607
00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:06,040
Speaker 1: between like different like vibes, where like the white room

608
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:09,360
Speaker 1: was like couples dancing mostly, and the black room was

609
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:12,560
Speaker 1: like everyone trying out the new big group dances and

610
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:18,680
Speaker 1: all the devil Yeah, like I'm being monogamous and normal

611
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:23,640
Speaker 1: versus like I'm going to be a devil today. Yeah exactly,

612
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:29,360
Speaker 1: And so yeah, whatever the latest dance craze was happening

613
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:32,279
Speaker 1: in the black room and then the white room I'm

614
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:35,320
Speaker 1: standing or whatever, and it and the white room skewed older,

615
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:40,480
Speaker 1: it's skewed more cusgendered, it scwed whiter. And I don't

616
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:42,400
Speaker 1: know that these were official names or these were like

617
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:44,960
Speaker 1: what people just called them. There's a lot of different

618
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:48,560
Speaker 1: reports about the clientele because everyone wants to own Stonewall

619
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:53,560
Speaker 1: because it fucking what happens here rules, right, And everyone

620
00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:58,200
Speaker 1: like argues about Stonewall because yeah, because they want to

621
00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:01,760
Speaker 1: own it. Um. Yeah, it seems likely that the clientele

622
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:04,799
Speaker 1: shifted over time and was constantly in flux. It was

623
00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:09,040
Speaker 1: almost exclusively gay men and or people assigned mail at birth,

624
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:11,719
Speaker 1: but gay women started showing up too. The way I've

625
00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:15,520
Speaker 1: heard it said is that it started off all men,

626
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:17,799
Speaker 1: and then they started letting in women, and then they

627
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:21,520
Speaker 1: started letting in drag queens. Okay, and there were exceptions

628
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:23,600
Speaker 1: all along to the drag queen thing, but like, for

629
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:25,080
Speaker 1: the most part, if you showed up and you were

630
00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:28,640
Speaker 1: like in address, they'd turn you away because in order

631
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:30,160
Speaker 1: to get in, you have to show up and there's

632
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:33,120
Speaker 1: like this big, thick, fucking crazy door and there's a

633
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:35,160
Speaker 1: gangster on the other side who's like looking through the

634
00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:38,040
Speaker 1: people and like trying to figure out whether to let

635
00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:41,200
Speaker 1: you in or not. You know, password, Yeah, it's like

636
00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:43,799
Speaker 1: if he recognizes you from having been there before, he'll

637
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:45,040
Speaker 1: let you in. So you kind of kind of go

638
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 1: your first time. You have to go with your friends

639
00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:52,279
Speaker 1: who've been there before. But so eventually they start letting

640
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:55,080
Speaker 1: in people in full drag, but for the longest time

641
00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:59,200
Speaker 1: they don't. And when women showed up and lesbian showed up,

642
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:02,160
Speaker 1: they were kind of perceived, as I got told or

643
00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:05,600
Speaker 1: as I read, they're perceived as like honored guests, so

644
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:08,440
Speaker 1: it wasn't their space, but everyone was like, what the

645
00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:12,360
Speaker 1: fuck was that lesbian doing in here? Instead everyone's like,

646
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:16,040
Speaker 1: oh my god, you know that rules, thanks for coming,

647
00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:19,000
Speaker 1: you know. It was still kind of like also segregrade

648
00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:22,520
Speaker 1: in that way probably too, just like totally yeah, yeah,

649
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:24,600
Speaker 1: I mean It's like, and if the point of the

650
00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:26,880
Speaker 1: bar is getting laid, then it sort of makes sense,

651
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:29,040
Speaker 1: right that lesbians go to the lesbian bar and the

652
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:30,719
Speaker 1: game I go to the gay bar. Yeah, that's true.

653
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:35,000
Speaker 1: It's true. It's true. That's true. But I mean I like, well,

654
00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:37,839
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, it's complicated for me to fit

655
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:40,279
Speaker 1: in and anywhere, but like, you know, I would like

656
00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:43,600
Speaker 1: us all just hanging out. But yeah, same. That's why

657
00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:46,880
Speaker 1: I like the word queer because and I yeah, I

658
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:49,719
Speaker 1: mean too, I love the word queer totally. But also,

659
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:53,880
Speaker 1: I mean when it's co mingled, if separately, it feels safe,

660
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:56,520
Speaker 1: but commingled also feels safe too. Does that make sense?

661
00:36:56,560 --> 00:37:01,440
Speaker 1: Like it's still not like like, uh, there's you're you're

662
00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:07,480
Speaker 1: amongst Yes, exactly exactly. So I feel like, yeah, yeah,

663
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:09,120
Speaker 1: I mean it makes sense back then that maybe they

664
00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:13,319
Speaker 1: were like m for us only. Yeah. And so one

665
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:16,839
Speaker 1: of the main clientele at this place um at Stonewall

666
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:21,160
Speaker 1: was street queens, and street queens was a specific youth

667
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:24,560
Speaker 1: subculture of homeless queer youth, most of whom many of

668
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:26,799
Speaker 1: whom all of them I don't know, did sex work.

669
00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:29,279
Speaker 1: A bunch of them lived in the park across the

670
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:31,840
Speaker 1: street and were protected by some of the older queers,

671
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:34,480
Speaker 1: one of whom will actually talk about. And this is

672
00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:38,880
Speaker 1: where a lot of the more famous characters around Stonewall

673
00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:44,160
Speaker 1: come from this culture. But you know what culture you

674
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:56,080
Speaker 1: can belong to buy consuming stuff capitalism, the culture capital yeay,

675
00:37:56,120 --> 00:38:00,480
Speaker 1: everything's the same capital see for culture and capitalism. I

676
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:04,480
Speaker 1: know they come from the same root word. See that.

677
00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:06,319
Speaker 1: Yeah it's actually really true. I never thought of it

678
00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:09,719
Speaker 1: that way. Yeah, yeah, I learned so much on this podcast. Yeah,

679
00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:14,120
Speaker 1: true things, much like the True Deals. Here you go,

680
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:21,400
Speaker 1: ads and we are back. I'm talking about the street queens,

681
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 1: who I want to give their own episode one day probably,

682
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:27,319
Speaker 1: But I will say the podcast Queer as Fact did

683
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:29,759
Speaker 1: an episode about Stonewall that's really worth listening to, and

684
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:32,680
Speaker 1: it talks more about the bar itself and the culture there,

685
00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:34,440
Speaker 1: and it draws from a bunch of firsthand accounts. So

686
00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:37,399
Speaker 1: if you want to hear people talking about like what

687
00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:40,480
Speaker 1: their time was like at Stonewall, Queer as Fact is

688
00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:44,799
Speaker 1: a fucking awesome podcast. And since amab folks assigned mail

689
00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:47,719
Speaker 1: at birth, folks weren't allowed to come in dresses, they'd

690
00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:52,000
Speaker 1: come in quote scare drag, which is a sick name. Yeah,

691
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:56,160
Speaker 1: that's amazing. Yeah, so since like if it was rated,

692
00:38:56,200 --> 00:38:58,080
Speaker 1: you're supposed to know as illegal, do not of at

693
00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:00,160
Speaker 1: least three articles of clothing that matched the idea you

694
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:05,760
Speaker 1: sex or id or whatever it was. Again, probably a guideline,

695
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 1: not a specific law. But so scare drag is dragon pants.

696
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:12,760
Speaker 1: You get some tight fitting pants and a wig and makeup,

697
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:14,960
Speaker 1: and you tie a men's shirt around your waist, so

698
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:17,360
Speaker 1: if you need to transform, you just rip off the

699
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:22,080
Speaker 1: wig and button up your shirtbook. I know. It's also

700
00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:24,920
Speaker 1: a fucking sick look. It's like a superhero like just

701
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:29,120
Speaker 1: like it's time to go not Poka anymore, Ye Superman.

702
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:33,880
Speaker 1: That's so cool, I know. But I think a great loophole. Yeah, totally.

703
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:36,000
Speaker 1: And so they have this whole culture that they built

704
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:39,360
Speaker 1: around scare drag and or aesthetic that they built around it.

705
00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:41,360
Speaker 1: And I like it because this black block. But for

706
00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:46,400
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty street queens, you know. Yeah, and while some

707
00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:49,239
Speaker 1: of the well the street queens were hustlers, right, they

708
00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:52,600
Speaker 1: generally weren't at Stonewall for work but to hang out. Um,

709
00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:54,759
Speaker 1: I'm sure some of them did do work there. Like

710
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:57,040
Speaker 1: everything is like Oh, sex work wasn't a big thing there,

711
00:39:57,239 --> 00:39:59,200
Speaker 1: and I think it wasn't the people. I think the

712
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:01,600
Speaker 1: people saying that aren't trying to downplay sex work. They're

713
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:03,319
Speaker 1: literally being like, this is where people go to like

714
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:07,160
Speaker 1: let loose rather than get work. But there is a

715
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:10,600
Speaker 1: guy who connects them to sex work very directly, and

716
00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:13,879
Speaker 1: he is one of the most interesting characters in this

717
00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:19,560
Speaker 1: whole story. Oh, the bouncer at Stonewall is an Irish

718
00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:28,080
Speaker 1: Italian Catholic man named Ed the Skull Murphy. Wow. Wow,

719
00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:32,600
Speaker 1: what name. Wow. I wonder how he got that name.

720
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:36,319
Speaker 1: First of all, ill, okay, great, Yeah, we're gonna talking

721
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:39,759
Speaker 1: about We're talking about Skull Murphy. Yeah, there are so

722
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:43,959
Speaker 1: many great names. I know gay history. I know when

723
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:46,359
Speaker 1: the Skull was like eleven or so, he probably wasn't

724
00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:49,120
Speaker 1: named the Skull yet. He bashed a cop in the

725
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:53,800
Speaker 1: head with a milk bottle for trashing his shoeshine. Stand. Wow,

726
00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:56,719
Speaker 1: out of all the skulls to bash, that is the

727
00:40:56,760 --> 00:40:58,839
Speaker 1: one I would want to to bash. To be named

728
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:03,319
Speaker 1: the skull, Yeah, that's amazing. Okay. But so he fought

729
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:04,920
Speaker 1: in World War Two and then he come back and

730
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:07,040
Speaker 1: he becomes this professional wrestler where he got the name

731
00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:11,200
Speaker 1: the Skull right, and he's a big fucking guy. He's

732
00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:15,040
Speaker 1: like taking steroids and his signature fight move is that

733
00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:22,000
Speaker 1: he head butts people um ed. Oh yeah, I love that,

734
00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:25,840
Speaker 1: and it's between bouncing gigs for gay bars is the

735
00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:27,800
Speaker 1: other thing he starts doing for the mafia when he

736
00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:30,279
Speaker 1: comes back from the war. He also has another job.

737
00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:32,880
Speaker 1: Oh he shows on the ad transition here because of

738
00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:35,680
Speaker 1: the next part's about gold. But if you want some

739
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:38,719
Speaker 1: gold and you don't want to buy it, the joke

740
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:40,640
Speaker 1: here for anyone who's listening is that sometimes we get

741
00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:43,200
Speaker 1: ads for gold buying gold, and then usually make fun

742
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:46,360
Speaker 1: of that because he's usually a bad investment. Yeah. Also

743
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:49,600
Speaker 1: people I don't know people listen to I can happen here. No,

744
00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:52,279
Speaker 1: I'm allergic to gold, so that's another that's right, I

745
00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:57,760
Speaker 1: have gold teeth. Yeah yeah, allergy can't. Yeah, stay away.

746
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:04,400
Speaker 1: So he liked to rob dentists. That was his other hobby.

747
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:10,880
Speaker 1: This guy is so cool, so not from dentists. He

748
00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:14,560
Speaker 1: does some sketchy stuff, like some bad stuff, but yeah,

749
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:17,880
Speaker 1: but he is. He is one of the most complete

750
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:22,120
Speaker 1: characters of like Good and Bad. All Yeah, I'm just

751
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:24,200
Speaker 1: really excited to hear what you would take make of him. So,

752
00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:27,040
Speaker 1: okay him and is one of his gay friends. I

753
00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:29,600
Speaker 1: don't know if they are lovers or not. Um. So

754
00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:31,600
Speaker 1: the gold thing was because he would steal stuff from

755
00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:33,600
Speaker 1: dentists and sell them, like the steal gold teeth from

756
00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:36,200
Speaker 1: dentists and sell them. Yeah. Yeah, that was was making

757
00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:38,839
Speaker 1: that trance. Like literally he would go and he's he's

758
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:40,839
Speaker 1: steal their stash of gold teeth or like the gold

759
00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:45,000
Speaker 1: that they used to make crowns. Honestly genius move, no,

760
00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:48,200
Speaker 1: I know, And it worked for a very long time. Um.

761
00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:51,280
Speaker 1: One time they go rob this dentist and the dentist

762
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:54,640
Speaker 1: is like, please don't take my diamond ring. It was

763
00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:56,800
Speaker 1: a gift. It was given to me by my father

764
00:42:56,920 --> 00:43:00,200
Speaker 1: for his buff for my bar mitzvah. And so they

765
00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:02,440
Speaker 1: let the guy keep his diamond ring because they're classy, right,

766
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:03,920
Speaker 1: And so they just steal the gold teeth and then

767
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:06,839
Speaker 1: they leave. But the next day there was a news

768
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:10,600
Speaker 1: headline that reads, quote dentist CON's robbers out of ring.

769
00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:17,920
Speaker 1: So they go back. Yeah wow, so he like mis

770
00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:21,239
Speaker 1: represented of the story. Yeah yeah, So it's like he

771
00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:23,440
Speaker 1: convinced them to let me keep this. Yeah, because a

772
00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:26,520
Speaker 1: bunch of suckers. So they go back and they beat

773
00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:29,320
Speaker 1: him up and they take the diamond ring. That's hilarious.

774
00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:37,520
Speaker 1: On their seventy third dentist robbery. He gets caught a

775
00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:41,160
Speaker 1: lot of robberies before you. I know, I would say

776
00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:44,239
Speaker 1: the lesson here is that make sure you only rob

777
00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:46,839
Speaker 1: like seventy dentists or fifty if you want to play.

778
00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:50,839
Speaker 1: It's safe. It is completely safe to rob. The more

779
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:54,040
Speaker 1: you rob, the higher the probability goes that you're doing

780
00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:57,240
Speaker 1: a caught. So just keep my mind when your numbers

781
00:43:57,280 --> 00:44:00,200
Speaker 1: go up. Yeah, totally. So he gets caught and he

782
00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:04,320
Speaker 1: does ten years. He gets out, he starts bouncing for

783
00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:07,000
Speaker 1: the mafia gay bars again, and he's perfect for it.

784
00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:10,120
Speaker 1: He's a crook, he's part Italian, he's scary as fucking hell.

785
00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:15,120
Speaker 1: He's the huge. Yeah, he earns a new nickname. Okay,

786
00:44:15,239 --> 00:44:17,880
Speaker 1: his new nickname. It was pretty good, so I know

787
00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:20,560
Speaker 1: this one's somehow even better. The two go really well together,

788
00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:26,040
Speaker 1: not like in the same word, but mother mother, because

789
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:29,560
Speaker 1: he looks after and makes work connections for all the

790
00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:34,040
Speaker 1: street hustling youth. Mother is such an interesting name for

791
00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:36,759
Speaker 1: that kind of person. I know, I know, that is

792
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:42,319
Speaker 1: so cool. And now here's where he gets messy. Oh no,

793
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:45,680
Speaker 1: he starts in a new crime ring. And this new

794
00:44:45,719 --> 00:44:51,560
Speaker 1: crime ring they extort gay rich men. The scam is

795
00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:54,440
Speaker 1: called the Chicken and the Bull, and it's a reasonably

796
00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:56,440
Speaker 1: simple scam. You get a rich gay man to take

797
00:44:56,480 --> 00:44:59,200
Speaker 1: home a young sex worker who's called the chicken to

798
00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:02,920
Speaker 1: a hotel room. Then and either the worker the chicken,

799
00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:05,600
Speaker 1: just grabs the guy's wallet and runs and then you're

800
00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:08,560
Speaker 1: just like done, you know. Or the bull, who's either

801
00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:12,600
Speaker 1: a corrupt cop or someone like our man ed pretending

802
00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:15,680
Speaker 1: to be a cop, comes into the room and it's like,

803
00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:17,920
Speaker 1: I'm going to arrest you unless you give me a

804
00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:21,359
Speaker 1: bunch of money, and if the target is important enough,

805
00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:23,000
Speaker 1: like they come in and they're like, oh sha, that's

806
00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:26,279
Speaker 1: a fucking senator, because this absolutely gets some senators and shit,

807
00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:30,160
Speaker 1: they're like, actually, you know what, we're actually going to

808
00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:32,920
Speaker 1: blackmail you now and basically hold this over your head

809
00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:34,560
Speaker 1: that we know that you're game. We have pictures and shit,

810
00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:38,160
Speaker 1: you know, yeah yeah yeah, And so this isn't like blackmail, yeah,

811
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:40,160
Speaker 1: and so this isn't just Ed doing it as this

812
00:45:40,239 --> 00:45:43,840
Speaker 1: whole extortion ring and it's mostly run by cops, including

813
00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:46,439
Speaker 1: a Chicago cop who was taking ten percent of every

814
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:49,839
Speaker 1: extortion and was providing the fake police credentials and all

815
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:54,400
Speaker 1: that shit. Well, okay, and this scam was fucking huge.

816
00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:57,879
Speaker 1: It's actually the same scam run by veteran of the Pods,

817
00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:01,000
Speaker 1: Sophie Lions, who is Ueen of the Underworld. If you

818
00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:04,120
Speaker 1: want to hear my episode about her from last fall.

819
00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:07,279
Speaker 1: Hers was straight and she did it alone, and she

820
00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:09,520
Speaker 1: didn't somehow manage to entrap some of the most powerful

821
00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:11,680
Speaker 1: people in the country because they did this to a

822
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:17,880
Speaker 1: bunch of prominent people, including Liberaci, whoa an admiral and

823
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:23,160
Speaker 1: a congressman. Oh shit, the Admiral William Church killed himself

824
00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:25,600
Speaker 1: when the whole thing was uncovered and he was revealed.

825
00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:31,399
Speaker 1: And it's interesting. It's when the crime is uncovered, when

826
00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:34,520
Speaker 1: the criminal ring goes down, it drags all the blackmailed

827
00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:37,080
Speaker 1: people into the limelight and it outs them. It's the

828
00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:39,440
Speaker 1: thing that they'd been paying to have not happened. The

829
00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:44,640
Speaker 1: government then does to them, right. That sucks. Yeah, And

830
00:46:44,680 --> 00:46:46,200
Speaker 1: it actually parallels some one of the things that we

831
00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:48,799
Speaker 1: talked about you and I when we talked about the

832
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:51,960
Speaker 1: gay resistance to Nazis. How early German gay rights activists

833
00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:54,640
Speaker 1: in the nineteen tens and twenties used to out prominent

834
00:46:55,040 --> 00:46:57,360
Speaker 1: closeted people, which led to a bunch of suicides. It

835
00:46:57,440 --> 00:47:01,480
Speaker 1: was there like activism. It's like fucked up. But yeah,

836
00:47:01,560 --> 00:47:02,799
Speaker 1: and so I don't think this is good, but this

837
00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:05,839
Speaker 1: is what happens. The Mattachine Society that we talked about

838
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:09,040
Speaker 1: them last time, the sort of more reformist organization. They

839
00:47:09,080 --> 00:47:12,160
Speaker 1: actually help with the government's investigation of this because they

840
00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:14,560
Speaker 1: want to stop this extortion ring, this targeting gay men,

841
00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:18,280
Speaker 1: and they serve as the go betweens between the victims

842
00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:19,920
Speaker 1: and the cops because the cops don't want to talk

843
00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:22,239
Speaker 1: directly to the Sorry, the victims don't want to talk

844
00:47:22,239 --> 00:47:26,080
Speaker 1: directly to the police. So ed the skull Murphy. When

845
00:47:26,120 --> 00:47:31,680
Speaker 1: the ring gets busted, he starts snitching. No mother, I know.

846
00:47:32,239 --> 00:47:34,279
Speaker 1: He still gets five years, but he didn't serve at all.

847
00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:37,720
Speaker 1: Rumor has it, which does not mean this is true.

848
00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:41,480
Speaker 1: Rumor has it he has blackmail photos of FBI director

849
00:47:41,560 --> 00:47:44,279
Speaker 1: j Edgar Hoover, and he held for the rest of

850
00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:46,399
Speaker 1: his life. He held that Hoover was gay. And liked

851
00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:50,120
Speaker 1: a cross dress and is later It's later been claimed

852
00:47:50,120 --> 00:47:52,840
Speaker 1: that the reason Hoover didn't go after the mafia was

853
00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:58,080
Speaker 1: because of these photos. Oh we shit, right, I mean

854
00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:01,440
Speaker 1: I thought the other as you mentioned, we're big fish.

855
00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:05,080
Speaker 1: But that's the biggest fish. Yeah, I know. Wow, that

856
00:48:05,280 --> 00:48:08,680
Speaker 1: is I mean I kind of believe him. Why would

857
00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:11,399
Speaker 1: he lie about that? Yeah, I see no particular reason.

858
00:48:11,560 --> 00:48:14,040
Speaker 1: Like my gut instinct is that this is true, but

859
00:48:14,120 --> 00:48:16,000
Speaker 1: I haven't really looked into it, and I'm not trying

860
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:18,800
Speaker 1: to like specifically say I know that this is true, right, Yeah,

861
00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:22,120
Speaker 1: but just like all all science point to Yes, that's

862
00:48:22,239 --> 00:48:27,200
Speaker 1: so interesting. Yeah. Well so he gets out of prison. Yeah, yeah, no,

863
00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:30,319
Speaker 1: and he goes back to bouncing gay bars. Um, he's

864
00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:32,680
Speaker 1: the main doorman at Stonewall and he's there the night

865
00:48:32,680 --> 00:48:36,840
Speaker 1: of the riots. He sells drugs, he's pimping, or rather

866
00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:41,400
Speaker 1: he's making introductions for which he took tips. And he

867
00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:45,080
Speaker 1: also protects young sex workers. Like there's like a story

868
00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:47,680
Speaker 1: about like, um, the street queens love him, right, and

869
00:48:48,040 --> 00:48:50,279
Speaker 1: so I think that's telling about his relationship in the

870
00:48:50,560 --> 00:48:54,080
Speaker 1: work environment for them. When when customers try to assault

871
00:48:55,160 --> 00:48:58,799
Speaker 1: the young sex workers, there's mother showing up and he's

872
00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:01,480
Speaker 1: fucking scary, right is he sorry if you mentioned this?

873
00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:05,680
Speaker 1: Is he gay? Yes, but he's not out? Oh shit,

874
00:49:06,560 --> 00:49:11,280
Speaker 1: yeah yet? Okay, yeah he's gay the whole time. Yeah, okay,

875
00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:14,280
Speaker 1: I just wanted to make sure. Yeah. Yeah. He also

876
00:49:14,719 --> 00:49:17,360
Speaker 1: at the bar, he's running a ring of street queens

877
00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:19,640
Speaker 1: stealing wallets. I don't know if this is directly related

878
00:49:19,640 --> 00:49:21,600
Speaker 1: to the chicken extortion or not, but or if he's

879
00:49:21,640 --> 00:49:23,640
Speaker 1: just still like, yeah, what's up, Like if you ever

880
00:49:23,719 --> 00:49:25,760
Speaker 1: want to steal a wallet, I'll like move it for you,

881
00:49:25,760 --> 00:49:28,360
Speaker 1: you know, I don't. I don't know exactly. He's also

882
00:49:29,640 --> 00:49:32,520
Speaker 1: snitching to the mafia about which patrons are so rich

883
00:49:32,600 --> 00:49:37,120
Speaker 1: that they can be extorted. He's also maybe informing the

884
00:49:37,120 --> 00:49:41,319
Speaker 1: cops about what's happening at Stonewall. And this is the

885
00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:43,719
Speaker 1: one thing that I feel is like contentious and we

886
00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:48,400
Speaker 1: don't know, I've read both things. He also very adamantly

887
00:49:48,480 --> 00:49:50,279
Speaker 1: is like I ain't no snitch or kind of like

888
00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:53,279
Speaker 1: one and done. You know that he and he had

889
00:49:53,320 --> 00:49:55,719
Speaker 1: also snitched on cops, so it's like a little bit

890
00:49:56,400 --> 00:49:59,920
Speaker 1: right MESSI he also was and he's this white guy

891
00:50:00,239 --> 00:50:03,799
Speaker 1: and he's specifically known for defending people of color, and

892
00:50:03,960 --> 00:50:07,680
Speaker 1: after Stonewall, later bars sometimes wouldn't hire him because they

893
00:50:07,719 --> 00:50:12,320
Speaker 1: were convinced he'd quote turned the club black because he,

894
00:50:12,480 --> 00:50:16,040
Speaker 1: like you know, was friends with all people. Yeah, it

895
00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:20,200
Speaker 1: was an ally, yeah, yeah, I mean he was also gay,

896
00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:25,719
Speaker 1: but as far as race, yeah, damn. I mean it

897
00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:28,040
Speaker 1: is messy though, You're right, because he sounds like he

898
00:50:28,120 --> 00:50:31,839
Speaker 1: was a really good person that people respected in the community, right,

899
00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:35,759
Speaker 1: even though he's doing these things that are actually unconsciousable. Yeah,

900
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:39,560
Speaker 1: and we're going to talk about his like I think

901
00:50:39,560 --> 00:50:42,280
Speaker 1: probably next episode. This isn't me skipping to next episode.

902
00:50:42,280 --> 00:50:44,640
Speaker 1: There still a bit more in this episode, but he's

903
00:50:44,680 --> 00:50:46,920
Speaker 1: going to come back into the story after Stonewall, and

904
00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:49,880
Speaker 1: he has a really interesting arc from there too. Okay,

905
00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:53,160
Speaker 1: cool the acid dealer at stone Wall, it's talking about

906
00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:56,479
Speaker 1: someone else. There is one of the bartenders, and she's

907
00:50:56,719 --> 00:51:01,399
Speaker 1: a queen named Maggie Jigs. These names I know. So

908
00:51:01,840 --> 00:51:04,560
Speaker 1: here's to the Maggie's of the world. I will say YEA.

909
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:08,000
Speaker 1: Her partner, Tommy Um I think both romantic and um

910
00:51:08,640 --> 00:51:11,839
Speaker 1: and business kept a toy duck on the bar and

911
00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:16,600
Speaker 1: would quack it anytime someone left a tip. I love

912
00:51:16,880 --> 00:51:19,200
Speaker 1: I know, I love that it's like this sketchy crime bar,

913
00:51:19,280 --> 00:51:22,120
Speaker 1: but everyone's like kind of having fun and quack in

914
00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:24,760
Speaker 1: the duck and it's simple community where people feel safe

915
00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:26,840
Speaker 1: and yeah, so if like, yeah, you're gonna get a

916
00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:28,759
Speaker 1: wallet's stolen, but no one's gonna fucking treat you like

917
00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:32,400
Speaker 1: ship for being gay. Everyone loved Maggie even though shecasonally

918
00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:35,239
Speaker 1: stole shit from you. Her attitude towards money was two

919
00:51:35,280 --> 00:51:38,239
Speaker 1: for the bar, one for myself. I respect that she

920
00:51:38,440 --> 00:51:42,600
Speaker 1: was really good at setting up three ways. Okay, fucking

921
00:51:42,640 --> 00:51:45,800
Speaker 1: hero Maggie Jigs And I almost am certain this is

922
00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:49,799
Speaker 1: an independent investigation. This is a kai googled Maggie jigs Um.

923
00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:52,840
Speaker 1: She gets her name from a comic strip at the

924
00:51:52,880 --> 00:51:56,160
Speaker 1: time called Bringing Up Father, which is this Irish American

925
00:51:56,239 --> 00:51:59,400
Speaker 1: couple Maggie and Jigs and they're like dealing with class

926
00:51:59,440 --> 00:52:03,840
Speaker 1: stuff where like they they suddenly become rich rich, but Jigs,

927
00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:06,120
Speaker 1: the husband wants to like still like stay down and

928
00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:08,600
Speaker 1: dirty and hang out with all his poor friends, whereas

929
00:52:08,640 --> 00:52:10,920
Speaker 1: like Maggie is like a nag and wants to be

930
00:52:10,960 --> 00:52:14,320
Speaker 1: like rich or whatever. Also at the bar, a nearly

931
00:52:14,400 --> 00:52:17,040
Speaker 1: naked go go dancer dance in a gilded cage on

932
00:52:17,080 --> 00:52:22,959
Speaker 1: the bar m Risque. Yeah, it's a really interesting place.

933
00:52:22,960 --> 00:52:24,799
Speaker 1: Some people loved it, some people hated it. It had

934
00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:27,640
Speaker 1: a reputation, like there's a lot of his there's a

935
00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:29,520
Speaker 1: lot of the people who are involved, even in the

936
00:52:29,520 --> 00:52:31,279
Speaker 1: Stonewall riots. A lot of them were like, I don't

937
00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:34,600
Speaker 1: go to fucking Stonewall. Fuck that place, right because it

938
00:52:34,960 --> 00:52:39,759
Speaker 1: was just like too risky. So no, because it well,

939
00:52:39,800 --> 00:52:42,880
Speaker 1: like one, it was like too crimy I think for

940
00:52:42,880 --> 00:52:45,560
Speaker 1: a lot, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, And it also had

941
00:52:45,600 --> 00:52:47,880
Speaker 1: a place sense. It's kind of intense, I know. And

942
00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:50,360
Speaker 1: it had a reputation as a place where chicken hawks,

943
00:52:50,480 --> 00:52:53,759
Speaker 1: older men cruising for younger boys hung out. And so

944
00:52:53,840 --> 00:52:55,919
Speaker 1: I think some people are a little bit like, nah,

945
00:52:55,920 --> 00:52:59,799
Speaker 1: that's sketchy, right no, right, yeah, so that's the bar.

946
00:53:00,920 --> 00:53:04,600
Speaker 1: And let's hear about the riots. So on Wednesday, whoa

947
00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:08,759
Speaker 1: we did it? Wow? Yeah, that's so interesting, so many

948
00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:11,600
Speaker 1: good names. I know. I can't wait to hear about

949
00:53:11,640 --> 00:53:16,439
Speaker 1: the end of the skulls arc. It's so good. I'm

950
00:53:16,440 --> 00:53:21,759
Speaker 1: so excited. Yeah. No, there's like, well, y'all just gonna

951
00:53:21,760 --> 00:53:25,120
Speaker 1: have to wait for part four. Cliffhanger, I know, So

952
00:53:25,680 --> 00:53:28,120
Speaker 1: what else people don't have to wait for is to

953
00:53:28,120 --> 00:53:33,359
Speaker 1: connect with you with your You can follow me on

954
00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:35,840
Speaker 1: the internet if you want to. You don't have to.

955
00:53:36,000 --> 00:53:39,480
Speaker 1: I get it, but I'm Shiro Hero on Instagram a

956
00:53:39,520 --> 00:53:43,200
Speaker 1: Shiro Hero six six six on Twitter. They will follow

957
00:53:43,280 --> 00:53:47,560
Speaker 1: you wherever you make up. I actually don't know the

958
00:53:47,600 --> 00:53:50,960
Speaker 1: legality of me singing songs on here um from a

959
00:53:51,040 --> 00:53:52,840
Speaker 1: like copyright point of view. I know I saw you

960
00:53:52,880 --> 00:53:55,080
Speaker 1: were singing, but it reminded me of the Gilmore Girls song.

961
00:53:55,520 --> 00:54:00,760
Speaker 1: Yeah great, whatever, some old I don't fucking shit about

962
00:54:00,760 --> 00:54:03,640
Speaker 1: what I'm singing at any given time. If you want

963
00:54:03,640 --> 00:54:06,880
Speaker 1: to follow me on the internet, I'm at Magpie Killjoy

964
00:54:07,000 --> 00:54:08,960
Speaker 1: unless you have something that you disagree with about what

965
00:54:09,000 --> 00:54:11,000
Speaker 1: I said, in which case I'm on Twitter at I

966
00:54:11,120 --> 00:54:18,480
Speaker 1: write Okay, and I'm on Instagram at Margart Killjoy and

967
00:54:18,560 --> 00:54:24,200
Speaker 1: we'll see you all Wednesday. Cool People Who Did Cool

968
00:54:24,200 --> 00:54:27,000
Speaker 1: Stop is a production of cool Zone Media. For more

969
00:54:27,040 --> 00:54:30,320
Speaker 1: podcasts on cool Zone Media, visit our website cool Zonemedia

970
00:54:30,440 --> 00:54:33,279
Speaker 1: dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

971
00:54:33,320 --> 00:54:36,200
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.