1 00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 1: Welcome back to another episode of Cutting the Distance. Today's 2 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:16,959 Speaker 1: guest is the owner of Airhead Rifles, Luke Krok. Arrowhead 3 00:00:17,040 --> 00:00:19,560 Speaker 1: is known for smoke with muzzloaders. They're getting more into 4 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:23,120 Speaker 1: that custom center fire rifle and then also muzzlover components. 5 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:26,400 Speaker 1: How things going, Luke? Great? 6 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:28,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, I just got back from a cow el con 7 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:31,639 Speaker 2: over in New Mexico. So back at the grind, but 8 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:33,320 Speaker 2: feeling feeling refreshed. 9 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:36,040 Speaker 1: Yeah. Nice. Nice. It looks like you and your dad 10 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:37,320 Speaker 1: have been going out there for maybe a couple of 11 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:39,760 Speaker 1: years doing the cow All cut. Yeah. 12 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:41,080 Speaker 3: He actually he went last year. 13 00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:43,080 Speaker 2: He bailed on me this year because he's got He 14 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:46,479 Speaker 2: drew on Range Rix in March and he's a kind 15 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:49,000 Speaker 2: of a Midwest home body, so getting him out for 16 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:51,600 Speaker 2: two hunts and the seas and is kind of tough. 17 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:55,840 Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, so I took a buddy over this year. 18 00:00:56,240 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 1: It looks like you guys were successful according to Facebook. Yeah, yeah, 19 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:02,640 Speaker 1: uh you got you got to do any other hunting 20 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 1: or has that been it for the fall? Yeah? 21 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:07,800 Speaker 2: Actually, Jim over there at Marsupial Gear. I went on 22 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:12,400 Speaker 2: impromptu Angelo punt with him over in New Mexico as 23 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:16,360 Speaker 2: well back in late August and got you know, like 24 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:18,600 Speaker 2: a seventy inch buck had a fun hunt over there, 25 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:21,640 Speaker 2: and then I'll, uh, I'll head down to Mexico for 26 00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:23,320 Speaker 2: coups there in January. 27 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:26,360 Speaker 1: Yep, yep. We were just talking talking about that a 28 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:27,720 Speaker 1: little bit ahead of the show. You know, we've been 29 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:29,680 Speaker 1: you know Darr really well, and I've been going with 30 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 1: you know, Jay and Darr down there and it's it's 31 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:33,399 Speaker 1: a it's a really fun hunt there south of the border. 32 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:35,600 Speaker 1: So this would be my first year not going in 33 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:37,880 Speaker 1: four years. I'm a little a little sad that decided 34 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:40,640 Speaker 1: to take on and help coach our high school boys basketball. 35 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:43,160 Speaker 1: So it'll be another little fun, fun adventure. But that 36 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:44,720 Speaker 1: January hunt is going to get in the way of 37 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:48,920 Speaker 1: that somehow take a year off. But yeah, So back 38 00:01:48,960 --> 00:01:51,280 Speaker 1: to like how how I got ahold of you? How 39 00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:53,880 Speaker 1: I you know, I guess introduced, you know, through me 40 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 1: just buying stuff because I didn't know what I was doing. 41 00:01:56,360 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 1: I had bought a seven hundred ultimate muzzle order you 42 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:03,680 Speaker 1: two years ago, Washington State where I live, changed the 43 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:08,000 Speaker 1: ignition system law. Finally, you know, we had went from 44 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:11,520 Speaker 1: we had number elevens and muskets, we went to two 45 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:13,960 Speaker 1: on nine's were legal as long as they were open 46 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 1: and breached, and then ultimately they went to all modern 47 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:19,079 Speaker 1: ignition system I believe, And don't quote me on any 48 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:21,359 Speaker 1: of these, you know, to our listeners, don't quote me 49 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:23,240 Speaker 1: on those. But I remember, like I shot just a 50 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 1: Northwest Traditions muzzli er forever because I knew I was 51 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:29,400 Speaker 1: safe with muskets. And then I went right from that 52 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:33,640 Speaker 1: gun to to the ultimate. And you know, I probably 53 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:37,000 Speaker 1: do things wrong because I jump on the internet and 54 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:39,920 Speaker 1: start reading, you know, and there's there's mixed reviews. But 55 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 1: one thing that started to jump out as I was 56 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:46,280 Speaker 1: developing loads for this this ultimate was you can't load 57 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:49,119 Speaker 1: too much, you know, black Horn two nine, because you're 58 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:53,800 Speaker 1: gonna you know, I guess I'm gonna describe it way 59 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:55,799 Speaker 1: worse than you can, but basically you're gonna start to 60 00:02:56,800 --> 00:03:00,399 Speaker 1: gas vent and gas cut your breech plug right right. 61 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:05,360 Speaker 2: So the yeah, these higher you know, higher performance muzzle loaders. Uh, 62 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:08,960 Speaker 2: if you if you have leakage one time, generally you 63 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:11,360 Speaker 2: get gas cutting, which is just you know, the the 64 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:14,400 Speaker 2: gas escaping from the ignition, but it'll actually like burn 65 00:03:14,440 --> 00:03:18,920 Speaker 2: a channel through your breach plug. And you know you 66 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:22,120 Speaker 2: may slow it down, but once once it leaks, once 67 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:23,800 Speaker 2: it's just gonna get worse. 68 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:27,359 Speaker 1: Worse, worse, and keep cutting cutting back. So me, being conservative, 69 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:30,200 Speaker 1: didn't have time to mess with it. I I load, 70 00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 1: and once again, don't check my math because I was 71 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 1: just doing it by volume. So I said, all right, 72 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:37,480 Speaker 1: one hundred grains by volume, which I think converted like 73 00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 1: seventy three grains by weight, like a very mild load. Yeah, 74 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:43,440 Speaker 1: So I jumped down to just two hundred and fifty 75 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:46,000 Speaker 1: grain federal borlock bullet. It was easy to load. I 76 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:47,760 Speaker 1: got it to shoot well out to one hundred and 77 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:50,760 Speaker 1: went hunted and killed an elk with that. But then 78 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:52,520 Speaker 1: the more I read, the more I'm like, man, this 79 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:55,560 Speaker 1: really intrigues me. These guys are getting you know, I'm 80 00:03:56,240 --> 00:03:58,160 Speaker 1: we're gonna put a disclaimer on all of these, like 81 00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:00,480 Speaker 1: my load data that we're going to talk about stuff 82 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:03,120 Speaker 1: that Luke may talk about, like you need to work 83 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:05,360 Speaker 1: up to all of those, like don't just take a 84 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:08,240 Speaker 1: number and go put in your gun, because there's pressure, 85 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:10,160 Speaker 1: there's differences, like you need to make sure that works 86 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:12,040 Speaker 1: in your gun, and it could be dangerous to go 87 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:15,680 Speaker 1: out and do those. But you know, so you know, 88 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:17,280 Speaker 1: my mom always says, I'm the hardest guy to ever 89 00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:19,000 Speaker 1: buy for for Christmas. What do you want? I said, Well, 90 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:20,840 Speaker 1: if you can get me an arrowhead like Gen two 91 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:24,000 Speaker 1: breach for this gun and some modules like that, that'll work. 92 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:27,359 Speaker 1: Like we'll we'll go with that. And so I didn't 93 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:29,960 Speaker 1: have any intention of muzzloader hunting this year. Got lucky, 94 00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:35,920 Speaker 1: drew a tag and realized that the muzzloader season I'm 95 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:37,320 Speaker 1: not going to get in all the conditions of my tag. 96 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:39,320 Speaker 1: It's very complex, but basically I had to switch over 97 00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:41,320 Speaker 1: to a muzzloader on September twenty eighth, which I thought 98 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:42,960 Speaker 1: I was gonna be able to use my modern rifle, 99 00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:45,760 Speaker 1: but since there was a general mussloader season in that unit. 100 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:48,360 Speaker 1: So I'm like I was in a rush, you know, 101 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:52,680 Speaker 1: I was installing the and then you know we you know, 102 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:55,360 Speaker 1: thankfully the Gen too. You got pretty dialed. It worked, right, 103 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:57,520 Speaker 1: you know, the little go no gay gauge worked. I'm like, 104 00:04:57,520 --> 00:04:59,919 Speaker 1: all right, got that by and went and developed a 105 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:03,280 Speaker 1: and you know kind of was, you know, worried about 106 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:05,599 Speaker 1: ordering bullets. I ordered some furry bolts from you, some 107 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:09,200 Speaker 1: three hundred and twenty grain theories and got it all 108 00:05:09,279 --> 00:05:12,359 Speaker 1: set up, but I made some posts about it. And 109 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:14,840 Speaker 1: the reason I've got you on as a guest is 110 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:17,520 Speaker 1: I didn't realize how many questions there are about muzzloaders. 111 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:19,599 Speaker 1: It seems like nowadays, you go to order a custom rifle, 112 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:22,359 Speaker 1: you pick a yeah, you pick a caliber that you like, 113 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 1: you know, pick a stock that the gun builder recommends, 114 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:27,119 Speaker 1: and you're on your way. Where muzzleloaders there's it seems 115 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:29,800 Speaker 1: to be like there's a little more unknown. And I 116 00:05:29,839 --> 00:05:31,719 Speaker 1: had a ton of questions about my setup, and I 117 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:34,080 Speaker 1: realized at that point right there, I was not the 118 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:36,240 Speaker 1: right guy to be answering those questions, and so I 119 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 1: wanted to bring you on. You know, I know there 120 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 1: are you know, some other builders out there, but arrow Head, 121 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:45,159 Speaker 1: you know, by far is is kind of the leading 122 00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:49,920 Speaker 1: you know, aftermarket muzzleoader component manufacturer, And that's why I 123 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 1: wanted to have you on, so you can answer all 124 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:54,040 Speaker 1: these questions that have been brought to me, and you know, 125 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:56,880 Speaker 1: hopefully hopefully answer them a lot better than I can. 126 00:05:57,600 --> 00:05:57,840 Speaker 3: Yeah. 127 00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:00,520 Speaker 2: There, I mean, there's I think a lot with the 128 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:03,560 Speaker 2: like you said, as center fire, it's kind of simplistic 129 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:06,520 Speaker 2: relative to a muzzloader. And then there's just so many 130 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 2: variations of muzzleloaders out there, yep. And then you've got 131 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:15,640 Speaker 2: just a load of different projectiles and powders, and I 132 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:17,680 Speaker 2: can definitely get overwhelming. 133 00:06:17,839 --> 00:06:20,720 Speaker 1: Yeah. And when I started, so I cut my teeth 134 00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:24,000 Speaker 1: muzzloder hunting, and it was my dad's way to extend 135 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:26,560 Speaker 1: his season. I think is why I got because growing up, 136 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:28,240 Speaker 1: elk hunting was the right of passage. You could deer 137 00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:30,240 Speaker 1: hunt with a rifle when you were young, but elk 138 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:32,680 Speaker 1: hunting was for the men. You know. They they would 139 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:35,119 Speaker 1: go out. I live in an area with nothing but timber, 140 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:37,040 Speaker 1: so they would glass clear cuts for the first twenty 141 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:38,560 Speaker 1: thirty minutes and then they were in the timber all day. 142 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:40,400 Speaker 1: And they didn't want to deal with a you know, 143 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:42,400 Speaker 1: a fifth or sixth grader. You know, I don't even 144 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:44,080 Speaker 1: know how old for the traders are now, you know. 145 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 1: So Dad would let me muzzloder hunt. It would extend 146 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:49,560 Speaker 1: his season. We get the elk hunt more. But I 147 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:51,360 Speaker 1: can remember back in the old days, we had lots 148 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:54,280 Speaker 1: of opportunities, but you know, bad hang fires guns that 149 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:56,560 Speaker 1: just wouldn't go off with three or four percussion. You know, 150 00:06:56,880 --> 00:06:58,679 Speaker 1: you would try to reload and the gun just wouldn't 151 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:01,080 Speaker 1: go off. I live in this you know, super wet Northwest, 152 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:03,440 Speaker 1: and so like my experience with muzzloaders originally was like 153 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:06,880 Speaker 1: this is this sucks, like you can't you know. And 154 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 1: uh So as time goes on, the rules change, Washington rules, 155 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:14,200 Speaker 1: I would say, lax, whether you like them or not, 156 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:19,000 Speaker 1: they've allowed you know, more uh, you know, efficient, which 157 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:20,840 Speaker 1: I do. Like, we're not hang firing and shooting an 158 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:23,680 Speaker 1: elk and the you know, the wrong shoulder, the back, 159 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:25,840 Speaker 1: you know, whatever it may be. We're more accurate. But 160 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:29,320 Speaker 1: I will say that these more modern mussloaders are definitely 161 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:32,840 Speaker 1: more efficient and are probably allowing hunters to take more game. 162 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 1: But I you know, at least we're not wounding them 163 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:37,880 Speaker 1: or making bad hits. So now that was my original 164 00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 1: introduction to muzzloaders was hang fires guns that just didn't 165 00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:44,000 Speaker 1: go off, or guns that weren't as accurate because we 166 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:46,960 Speaker 1: were you know, maybe getting eighteen hundred feet per second, 167 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:48,360 Speaker 1: you know, sevente hundred fet per second out of the 168 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:50,720 Speaker 1: barrel on these old you know, drop two pyrate ex 169 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:54,120 Speaker 1: pelts down and stuff a bullet in, and so that 170 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:57,840 Speaker 1: leads us to today. You know, the ultimate muzzloader seemed 171 00:07:57,880 --> 00:07:59,640 Speaker 1: to be like a big undertaking than you guys have 172 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:03,280 Speaker 1: taken it, you know, way way farther with was smokeless, 173 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:07,120 Speaker 1: with you know, forty five caliber conversions even on the 174 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:11,600 Speaker 1: black powder and black powder substitutes. Like where how fast 175 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:14,760 Speaker 1: has like muzzleoader technology kind of changed, you know, from 176 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:17,520 Speaker 1: I would say twenty to ten to even now, like 177 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:20,760 Speaker 1: it seems to be a pretty you know, a pretty 178 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:24,160 Speaker 1: quick developing I guess niche within in hunting market. 179 00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I think I started Arrowhead in two thousand 180 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:30,440 Speaker 2: and eleven and that kind of came out if I 181 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:33,400 Speaker 2: was started bought a I think it was two thousand 182 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:35,680 Speaker 2: and six, two thousand and eight. Somewhere in that time, 183 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:38,960 Speaker 2: I'd bought the Savage ten mL two, which was, I 184 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:43,360 Speaker 2: guess to this point, the first and only commercially available 185 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:47,760 Speaker 2: smokeless powder capable muzzleoader, and there were some quite there, 186 00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:51,080 Speaker 2: there were some deficiencies with that, and we'd started to 187 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:55,160 Speaker 2: rebarrel them to forty five cow with a with a 188 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:57,240 Speaker 2: premium aftermarket barrel. 189 00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:01,199 Speaker 3: So you know, early on it was we kind. 190 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:04,800 Speaker 2: Of called it like the the Flying Hardware Store, because 191 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:06,880 Speaker 2: like people are trying to figure out how to get 192 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:10,040 Speaker 2: sabos to shoot well with the higher pressure and stuff 193 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:13,240 Speaker 2: and washers and sub bases in there and all that stuff. 194 00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:16,760 Speaker 2: So I feel like it's plateaued a little bit in 195 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:19,960 Speaker 2: the last couple of years as far as the performance. 196 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:24,959 Speaker 2: But yeah, i'd say like from well, what it's been 197 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:29,199 Speaker 2: thirteen years now since I started arrowhead, Like back then, 198 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:33,960 Speaker 2: two hundred yards was still kind of considered a longer shot, 199 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:37,360 Speaker 2: and you know now that's you know, we go straight 200 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:40,240 Speaker 2: to four or five hundred yards. I still you know, 201 00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:43,120 Speaker 2: people hear that four to five hundred yards and start 202 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 2: wringing their hands, the traditionalists do, which I mean, I 203 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:51,160 Speaker 2: understand that, but I tried to pump the brakes on 204 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:54,160 Speaker 2: people go into four or five hundred yards for hunting. 205 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:58,080 Speaker 2: I mean it, it's definitely doable, but guys are factoring 206 00:09:58,120 --> 00:09:59,960 Speaker 2: in wind drift and stuff like that. So we still 207 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:02,960 Speaker 2: we'll see a lot of guys totally with you. You know, 208 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:06,840 Speaker 2: you need to just like any firearm bow whatever, you 209 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:08,640 Speaker 2: had to get out there and put in your time 210 00:10:08,679 --> 00:10:10,760 Speaker 2: after range and and whatnot. 211 00:10:10,760 --> 00:10:12,559 Speaker 3: But yeah, it's in the last decade. 212 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:15,680 Speaker 2: It's I mean, like I said, two hundred yards, which 213 00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:19,520 Speaker 2: used to be I'd rebarreled that Savage ten mL two 214 00:10:20,559 --> 00:10:22,920 Speaker 2: to forty five calend I had a bunch of antler 215 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:25,120 Speaker 2: list tags. I was living back in Iowa at the time, 216 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:27,920 Speaker 2: and I think I killed three or four year in 217 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:30,280 Speaker 2: like two to two hundred and fifty yard range, and 218 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:32,480 Speaker 2: I was like hot. 219 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:33,680 Speaker 3: I thought it was hot stuff. 220 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:38,640 Speaker 2: I was definitely strutting around bragging all my buddies after that. Now, 221 00:10:38,679 --> 00:10:40,800 Speaker 2: you know, two hundred yards, you know, you know that's 222 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:43,640 Speaker 2: kind of considered average at this point. 223 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:47,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, And I remember my first my first experience with UH, 224 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:51,520 Speaker 1: with the Ultimate muzzleloader, which I know they make, you know, 225 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:55,240 Speaker 1: better aftermarket musslos or custom built, but I remember going 226 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:57,080 Speaker 1: to New Mexico and my buddy loading up. I think 227 00:10:57,160 --> 00:10:58,640 Speaker 1: back then he was running like one hundred and three 228 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:01,000 Speaker 1: greens by weight. You know. We'd sit there at the 229 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:02,480 Speaker 1: little powder measure. I'm like, what are we doing all 230 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:03,920 Speaker 1: this for? Like, we don't do that back home. You 231 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:06,720 Speaker 1: just drop some pellets down, and then I went and 232 00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:08,560 Speaker 1: shought a I believe it was like a three shot 233 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:11,200 Speaker 1: group of four hundred yards. Back when New Mexico didn't 234 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:13,640 Speaker 1: have the limitations they do now, and we shot like 235 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:15,360 Speaker 1: a four inch group at fo hundred yards and I 236 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:17,400 Speaker 1: was just blown away. I'm like, this gun literally shoots 237 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:20,280 Speaker 1: better than most factory rifles can shoot at that time. 238 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:22,199 Speaker 1: And that was you know back. 239 00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:26,360 Speaker 2: Then, right, and even you know, like you take just 240 00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:30,480 Speaker 2: a factory Remington Ultimate or Night. You know, they've all 241 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:33,120 Speaker 2: made off and on over the years, great muzzle oders 242 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:38,240 Speaker 2: where you know, accuracy wasn't even necessarily the issue downrange. 243 00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:40,160 Speaker 3: It was it was energy. 244 00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:43,800 Speaker 2: Like we you know, I recalled tons of stories over 245 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:46,880 Speaker 2: the years where somebody would have a buck at big 246 00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:49,680 Speaker 2: old Iowa white tail at two three hundred yards and 247 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:52,440 Speaker 2: you know, their gun would shoot subma, so they'd line 248 00:11:52,480 --> 00:11:54,960 Speaker 2: it up and shoot and maybe they made a great shot, 249 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:56,839 Speaker 2: but you know a lot of times they didn't find 250 00:11:56,880 --> 00:12:00,200 Speaker 2: the year till next spring because the energy is is 251 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:04,720 Speaker 2: petering off, like they're never getting an exit at that distance. 252 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:08,320 Speaker 2: So oh, we are pushing stuff a lot faster where 253 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 2: it's a lot more ethical to on the on the 254 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:14,160 Speaker 2: killing side where you're actually getting exit wounds at three 255 00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:17,239 Speaker 2: four hundred yards so you recover those animals. 256 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:19,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's where. You know, when I built my chart, 257 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:20,760 Speaker 1: I went and put it all in there, and then 258 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:22,360 Speaker 1: I checked, like all right, at some point you're in 259 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:23,880 Speaker 1: a out of energy, you're in an out of speed, 260 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:26,560 Speaker 1: and like, let's limit you know, anything to you know, 261 00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:29,400 Speaker 1: three point fifty and in. Yeah, And my biggest limiting 262 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:31,640 Speaker 1: factor is in my state is you're trying to do 263 00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:33,079 Speaker 1: all this with the one X scope and that red 264 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:35,280 Speaker 1: dot SI has to get really big, you know, out 265 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:37,240 Speaker 1: there at three hundred or you know, whatever it is. 266 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:39,280 Speaker 1: And and that was my limiting factor because the gun 267 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:41,959 Speaker 1: and the load that we developed, we were we were 268 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:44,559 Speaker 1: only getting you know, we were almost getting a little 269 00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:46,280 Speaker 1: over twenty one hundred feet per second I think out 270 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:47,880 Speaker 1: of that three twenty. But it's a big bull. It's 271 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:49,319 Speaker 1: got a BC a point two six, and so I 272 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:51,000 Speaker 1: would just look, I'm like, all right, you know, this 273 00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:52,560 Speaker 1: is where we should cut it, and this is where 274 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:56,320 Speaker 1: my scope with you know, one one rotation of the turret, 275 00:12:56,360 --> 00:12:59,400 Speaker 1: like I'm out of elevation. So we went out there. 276 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:01,280 Speaker 1: You know, I've got a really good rifle range right 277 00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:04,240 Speaker 1: here in my backyard, Like confirmed, I could hit a 278 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:06,600 Speaker 1: you know, eight by I think it's an eight by 279 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:09,119 Speaker 1: ten rectangle at three hundred and thirty yards like consistently 280 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:12,080 Speaker 1: every shot. It does take a little dancing, like moving 281 00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:13,840 Speaker 1: the dot. Are we on the target? You know, left 282 00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:16,600 Speaker 1: right up, down, like you're trying to dance that little loophole. 283 00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:18,800 Speaker 1: I use a loophold red dot, you know, trying to 284 00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 1: dance the size of that and can you still see it? 285 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:22,800 Speaker 1: And you know, the gun, as long as I had 286 00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:25,079 Speaker 1: a good rest and could take my time, you know, 287 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:27,120 Speaker 1: the gun was capable of three hundred thirty yards all 288 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:30,080 Speaker 1: day long. The limiting factor was just that stinking you 289 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:32,320 Speaker 1: know one x. I had no magnification, and so you're 290 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:34,840 Speaker 1: just you know, trying to make that work. And that's 291 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:36,719 Speaker 1: where I say, everything kind of dialed and I can 292 00:13:36,760 --> 00:13:39,240 Speaker 1: shoot that far. I can dial that far. The energy 293 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:41,040 Speaker 1: is still good there. But you go much farther, I'm 294 00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:43,040 Speaker 1: gonna have to, you know, either find a newer load 295 00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:45,640 Speaker 1: that's pushing faster, a lighter bullet. And then that's when 296 00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:47,240 Speaker 1: you know, we had talked a little bit like well, 297 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:48,720 Speaker 1: maybe you know, if you really want to get more, 298 00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:50,240 Speaker 1: you know, go down to forty five. And I think 299 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:52,679 Speaker 1: that's because you can get your speeds up and keep 300 00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:55,960 Speaker 1: the energy up a lot longer or a lot farther 301 00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:56,440 Speaker 1: out there. 302 00:13:57,200 --> 00:14:01,360 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, more more speed and then higher blistic coefficient. 303 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:04,160 Speaker 3: So yeah, it maintains them further out. 304 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:06,400 Speaker 1: So that'd be like the next step, you know, if 305 00:14:06,679 --> 00:14:09,720 Speaker 1: we didn't want to shoot the stock fifty kel remonton 306 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:12,080 Speaker 1: now or I've got to ask, are there in like 307 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:14,320 Speaker 1: once you add your guys as a breach. You know, 308 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:16,640 Speaker 1: we've got the stock, Remington barrel. I've had a little 309 00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:18,360 Speaker 1: bit of trigger work done just by like a local 310 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:20,840 Speaker 1: local gunsmith. You'll lighten it a little bit for me, 311 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:23,480 Speaker 1: cut the spring, and then you know, put it back together. 312 00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:26,720 Speaker 1: Is there anything else that like, you know, it's probably 313 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:29,720 Speaker 1: good enough for ninety nine percent of the muzzliter hunters 314 00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:31,200 Speaker 1: out there at that point, right once you put the 315 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:32,960 Speaker 1: breach and can push it a little farther, or there's 316 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:35,440 Speaker 1: some inherent like is there a bad stock? Is the stock? 317 00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:37,400 Speaker 1: You know? Are there some things that you would say. 318 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:41,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, well, like yours that the Remington Ultimate, 319 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:44,480 Speaker 2: I think they have two flavors of it. One in 320 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:49,600 Speaker 2: a laminate woodstock. There's no aluminum pillars in the woodstock 321 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:52,080 Speaker 2: or anything like that, so you I mean they're like 322 00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:54,920 Speaker 2: if you were going to break it down from an 323 00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:59,160 Speaker 2: inherent accuracy thing, you know, pillar betting that stock would 324 00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:02,800 Speaker 2: potentially improve things for you. I mean as a you know, 325 00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:07,480 Speaker 2: the fundamentals of accuracy between like a rifle and the 326 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:12,800 Speaker 2: muzzle that are still there. So whether those changes are gonna, 327 00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:15,120 Speaker 2: you know, on a stock gone like that, if you're 328 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:19,000 Speaker 2: even gonna you know, see an measurable improvement, you know, 329 00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:22,440 Speaker 2: as questionable. But I mean those are like if you were, 330 00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:25,800 Speaker 2: you know, a hobbyist and just had time to putts 331 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:29,200 Speaker 2: around and wanted to ring the absolute most accuracy out 332 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:30,520 Speaker 2: of it, that's something you could do. 333 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:31,040 Speaker 1: I mean. 334 00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:33,560 Speaker 2: The other stock they have is Bella Carlson the M forty. 335 00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:37,680 Speaker 2: It's got the the integral aluminum block and it I 336 00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:40,280 Speaker 2: haven't I mean, you can skim bed those as well, 337 00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:43,800 Speaker 2: but I haven't really seen much benefit to doing stuff 338 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:44,240 Speaker 2: like that. 339 00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:49,400 Speaker 1: Gotcha? Gotcha? Okay, Well we're gonna jump into some listener questions. 340 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:52,440 Speaker 1: Those are brought to you by Pendleton Whiskey. They sponsor 341 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:55,200 Speaker 1: our question and answer segment. And so I just made 342 00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:57,400 Speaker 1: a post like I say, a lot of these the 343 00:15:57,440 --> 00:15:58,120 Speaker 1: interest and. 344 00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:01,680 Speaker 2: That Pendleton these bought me some of that I think 345 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:04,920 Speaker 2: the directors are reserved last couple of years from my birthday. 346 00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:06,560 Speaker 3: That's I'll give it out of the plug. 347 00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:09,200 Speaker 1: Nice. Nice, there you go. Yeah, yeah, no, they they've 348 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:12,640 Speaker 1: been great partners with us, and they sponsor this little section. 349 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:15,200 Speaker 1: So we're gonna throw quite a few listener questions at you. 350 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:17,760 Speaker 1: And like I said, that was really what sparked us. 351 00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:19,360 Speaker 1: I was getting a lot of questions that I wasn't 352 00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:23,160 Speaker 1: really comfortable answering, and so I just kind of pulled 353 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:26,120 Speaker 1: my my Facebook page and you know, so we're gonna, 354 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:29,520 Speaker 1: we're gonna go through this. So Colton Stevens asks how 355 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:32,560 Speaker 1: many grains or powder? And what's your bullet weight? And 356 00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:35,040 Speaker 1: so this is I guess I can say what mine is, 357 00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:36,600 Speaker 1: you can say what yours is. Are what most people 358 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:39,880 Speaker 1: should do. So I I originally had ordered two eighty 359 00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:41,840 Speaker 1: five grain furies from you. They used to be two 360 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:43,960 Speaker 1: hundred and eighties. I believe ordered the two eighty fives. 361 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:45,760 Speaker 1: And of course, once again I go back to the 362 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:47,920 Speaker 1: internet reading and they're like, oh, not that the two 363 00:16:47,920 --> 00:16:50,840 Speaker 1: eighty fives are inaccurate, but people tend to have better 364 00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:53,680 Speaker 1: luck with the three twenties, like flying more consistent so 365 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:55,760 Speaker 1: I that's why I called you guys up. Hey, I 366 00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:57,280 Speaker 1: just put an order and I think it's wrong. Can 367 00:16:57,280 --> 00:16:59,240 Speaker 1: you send me the three twenties or can we we 368 00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:02,239 Speaker 1: redo This'm shooting a three hundred and twenty grain universal 369 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:04,440 Speaker 1: fit Fury, which we're going to get into that universal 370 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:06,680 Speaker 1: fit here in a little bit. I want to ask 371 00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:09,159 Speaker 1: all of questions about, like, you know, bullets that are 372 00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:11,480 Speaker 1: fit to the barrel, how you how you accomplish that? 373 00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:13,680 Speaker 1: But mine was the universal fit. It's got a little 374 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:16,800 Speaker 1: plastic disc on the back of the fury, and I'm 375 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:18,840 Speaker 1: going to speculate. Luke can correct me if I'm wrong. 376 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:22,280 Speaker 1: It's probably slightly oversized so that it can fit everything 377 00:17:22,320 --> 00:17:24,840 Speaker 1: from like a five OHO two barrel down and it 378 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:27,240 Speaker 1: probably deforms us a little bit as you're loading it, 379 00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:29,399 Speaker 1: so it makes sure to get that gas seal. Is 380 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:29,879 Speaker 1: that correct? 381 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:31,479 Speaker 3: Yeah? Okay, yeah, that's correct. 382 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:35,960 Speaker 1: And then I'm shooting black Horn two O nine and 383 00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:38,840 Speaker 1: I'm shooting one hundred and six grains by weight, And 384 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:41,560 Speaker 1: once again, I'm going to say it again, don't put 385 00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:45,439 Speaker 1: that in your muzzleoder if it's not you know, set up, 386 00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:48,080 Speaker 1: or it's not recommended with your breach for your gun, 387 00:17:48,359 --> 00:17:50,440 Speaker 1: and your gun can handle those type of pressures, but. 388 00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:55,000 Speaker 3: Mine as a manufacturers recommended Yeah, yeah. 389 00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:58,359 Speaker 1: So that is that is a Remington Ultimate muscloader with 390 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:04,200 Speaker 1: luke and arrowheads, upgraded breach and their ignition system which 391 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:07,639 Speaker 1: uses a I'm using cc I two fifties, you can 392 00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:11,320 Speaker 1: use Federal two fifteens whatever, basically a large magnum rifle 393 00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:14,720 Speaker 1: primer in your guys' modules. And that's really all I 394 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:15,560 Speaker 1: have done to the gun. 395 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:20,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, and like you, you're seeing great accuracy out of it. 396 00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:24,119 Speaker 2: Out of that, I mean, what we've really found is 397 00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:28,720 Speaker 2: a lot of the factory mussloaders out there, Remington Knight, you. 398 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:32,320 Speaker 3: Know, build a good, good mussloader. 399 00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:36,320 Speaker 2: Like the barrels are generally very accurate, Like where they're 400 00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:41,520 Speaker 2: often deficient is the ignition system. So we you know, 401 00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:44,159 Speaker 2: that's that's where if you get one hundred percent seal, 402 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:47,800 Speaker 2: you know, you're really setting yourself up for success. And 403 00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:52,720 Speaker 2: then the the where where I see most people run 404 00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:56,080 Speaker 2: into issues is actually with what the projectile they're fitting 405 00:18:56,119 --> 00:18:59,840 Speaker 2: to the barrel. Like every you know, I think all 406 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:01,840 Speaker 2: with all the bullet makers out there, at one point 407 00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:05,720 Speaker 2: or another, I've sold like an easy loading bullet, and 408 00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:09,160 Speaker 2: that's not necessarily like it's convenient, it's easy to load, right, 409 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:11,800 Speaker 2: but it's not necessarily going to give you your best accuracy, 410 00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:15,080 Speaker 2: especially as you move into the higher performance realm where 411 00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:17,720 Speaker 2: pressures go up like you're not you're not going to 412 00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:21,960 Speaker 2: get consistent engagement into the rifling and the barrel, which 413 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:24,520 Speaker 2: is going to cause accuracy issues. 414 00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:32,119 Speaker 1: Yeah. So the next question is from Neil Rico and 415 00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:34,280 Speaker 1: you'll probably all to answer this better than me. I 416 00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:38,359 Speaker 1: I do have one. I've shot this Fury three twenty 417 00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:40,560 Speaker 1: at ELK this year had a complete pass through right 418 00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:43,520 Speaker 1: to the lungs, and then last year I used the 419 00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:46,200 Speaker 1: Federal borlock one of those bullets. It's very easy to load. 420 00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:48,239 Speaker 1: But then once you realize that it's probably because it's 421 00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:51,000 Speaker 1: way undersized and we're probably not touching a whole lot 422 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:53,040 Speaker 1: of the rifle, you know, and then in your accuracies 423 00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:58,000 Speaker 1: probably going to go down. But what what have you 424 00:19:58,119 --> 00:20:01,680 Speaker 1: seen just from in you know, in field results, you know, 425 00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:04,160 Speaker 1: good bullets for ELK, you know, larger sized game. 426 00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:07,159 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean in the you know, if going to 427 00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:10,840 Speaker 2: the fifty cal. You know, if if you can get 428 00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:14,120 Speaker 2: them to shoot the thor the thor solid coppers are good. 429 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:16,320 Speaker 2: I mean, I think that's just a barn's bowl with 430 00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:20,680 Speaker 2: the you know, the base milled out. Uh, the furies 431 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:24,960 Speaker 2: are good. Fury uses a bonded He's got some process 432 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:27,719 Speaker 2: where he actually kneels the copper and bonds it so 433 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:31,280 Speaker 2: they they still expand easy, but it's the leads bonded 434 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:35,240 Speaker 2: to the coppers they hold together. Well. I've heard really 435 00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:39,240 Speaker 2: good things about the new Hornity boar drivers. I haven't 436 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:41,880 Speaker 2: actually actually, my buddy over Preston over there at Hornity 437 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:43,960 Speaker 2: just sent me a bunch of the fifty and the 438 00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:47,840 Speaker 2: forty fives to play around with. That's another bullet kind 439 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:52,879 Speaker 2: of similar to the boarlock where it with those, you know, 440 00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:55,040 Speaker 2: they are a looser fit, but that sub base kind 441 00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:57,439 Speaker 2: of crushes down and then the cop like makes up 442 00:20:57,440 --> 00:20:58,240 Speaker 2: for some of the space. 443 00:20:58,280 --> 00:20:58,960 Speaker 3: So we've we've. 444 00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:02,320 Speaker 2: Actually had really positive feedback from customers using those with 445 00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:06,240 Speaker 2: you know, black horn you can't they can't handle smokeless pressures. 446 00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:08,080 Speaker 2: And most of the most of the states where you're 447 00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:11,159 Speaker 2: hunting with those bullets anywhere way, smokeless isn't going to 448 00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:15,160 Speaker 2: be legal. But it really comes down to a lot 449 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:19,320 Speaker 2: of times with shot placement right with these these bullets, 450 00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:24,440 Speaker 2: because you're you're slinging a big chunk of lead. Uh, 451 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:26,120 Speaker 2: you know, even if it done, I mean you wanted 452 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:29,080 Speaker 2: to disrupt a little bit, but I mean most of 453 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:31,240 Speaker 2: the bullets out there will do a halfway decent job 454 00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:33,600 Speaker 2: if you hit the animal where you're where you're supposed to. 455 00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:38,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, back to my my old days of mussli or hunting, 456 00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:39,640 Speaker 1: you know, we were shooting a lot of like tune 457 00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:43,840 Speaker 1: and forty green hornady, you like hollow points. And what 458 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:46,479 Speaker 1: frustrated me and why I ultimately went to a barn's 459 00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:49,320 Speaker 1: there towards the end of you know, muzzled or hunting 460 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:53,359 Speaker 1: with with my old my old school setup was I 461 00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:56,600 Speaker 1: would never ever get an exit and blood trailing in 462 00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:59,000 Speaker 1: the Pacific Northwest, you thick timber. You know a lot 463 00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:01,040 Speaker 1: of time for shooting these things in the timber. You know, 464 00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:03,600 Speaker 1: you got needles on the ground and you just had horrible, 465 00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:06,520 Speaker 1: horrible blood you know, trails, It was just they were 466 00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:09,560 Speaker 1: non existent, and so you know, even the borlock being 467 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:12,280 Speaker 1: a solid copper, but then they opened really quick. So 468 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:14,960 Speaker 1: I was almost want like a copper that almost didn't 469 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:16,960 Speaker 1: expand to the point where it stopped, like I wanted 470 00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:19,840 Speaker 1: that second hole out of it, But I say the fury, 471 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:22,400 Speaker 1: and I don't know. I did make a longer shot 472 00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:24,560 Speaker 1: on my bowl here this year with that Fury three twenty, 473 00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:26,480 Speaker 1: so maybe it didn't get the chance to expand because 474 00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:29,560 Speaker 1: the bullet was slowed down, but it it punched, you know, 475 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:32,120 Speaker 1: a good hole. You know, the entrance hole, of course 476 00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:33,479 Speaker 1: on a fifty is going to be fifty. And then 477 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:35,199 Speaker 1: on the exit we had a you know, probably a 478 00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:39,320 Speaker 1: two inch hole and it performed really well what I 479 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:40,800 Speaker 1: would consider extended ranges. 480 00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:44,080 Speaker 3: That sounds like perfect performance to me. 481 00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:46,520 Speaker 1: But it may have been because that bullet was slowed down. 482 00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:48,200 Speaker 1: If I would have hit that elk at one hundred yards, 483 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:49,720 Speaker 1: we may have had you know, there may have been 484 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:51,480 Speaker 1: less chance of it coming out. You know, it's it's 485 00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:54,200 Speaker 1: hard to tail. Yeah, you know, I'm relating it back 486 00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:55,720 Speaker 1: to like my burgers and stuff as that I should 487 00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:57,959 Speaker 1: on my rifles. I'm going to get a I'm going 488 00:22:58,000 --> 00:22:59,760 Speaker 1: to get a pass through at four hundred more likely 489 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:02,160 Speaker 1: than I am at one hundred, you know, just because 490 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:05,199 Speaker 1: that bullets slowed down and it's not being violently like 491 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:09,160 Speaker 1: ripped apart from the jacket. But yeah, I've got one 492 00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:11,200 Speaker 1: one year testing. I'm one of those guys that doesn't 493 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:13,600 Speaker 1: want to make my judgment yet until i've got more 494 00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:17,440 Speaker 1: you know, different yard different yardages. But I did loan 495 00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:20,959 Speaker 1: my gun to a buddy that that killed an Elk 496 00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:22,560 Speaker 1: one hundred and twenty five yards and they still got 497 00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:26,359 Speaker 1: a great pass through, you know as well, so that 498 00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:28,200 Speaker 1: the bullet seemed to be good for ELK. I don't 499 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:31,560 Speaker 1: know if that answers your question, Neil, but you know 500 00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:34,359 Speaker 1: we're best for Elk is always subjective, but I you know, 501 00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:37,399 Speaker 1: and then what's the other? Is it Pearson bullet? Also? 502 00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:40,280 Speaker 1: Are those the other like border fit that people, you know, 503 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:42,520 Speaker 1: the guys that get into shooting the longer ranges? Is it? 504 00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:45,560 Speaker 3: Well, so we we have our own line of bullets 505 00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:48,800 Speaker 3: for the forty five and forty cow and that's you know, 506 00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:51,560 Speaker 3: we're not using there's no sub base. It's just a 507 00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:55,239 Speaker 3: copper lead core bullet. So the fit has to be 508 00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:59,280 Speaker 3: much more precise for you're actually getting into a you know, 509 00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:03,960 Speaker 3: with with our customs, with the barrel diameters can controlled 510 00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:06,479 Speaker 3: closely enough to where we can sell pre size bullets. 511 00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:09,000 Speaker 3: But like if you have a CVA Paramount forty five 512 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:11,840 Speaker 3: kel or something. You're probably going to need to buy 513 00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:15,520 Speaker 3: a sizing die and actually run the bullets through that. 514 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:18,440 Speaker 3: And the sizing dies are adjustable, so you can tweak 515 00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:20,160 Speaker 3: the fit of the bullet to your barrel and get 516 00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:26,240 Speaker 3: that precise fit those So there's there's a you know, 517 00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:30,040 Speaker 3: with with our bullets, it's a aluminum tip. 518 00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:31,840 Speaker 2: It almost looks like a horn of the a tip 519 00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:36,840 Speaker 2: style bullet. We've gone thinner on the jacket more. They're 520 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:40,840 Speaker 2: more going to be in that burger style where they're 521 00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:43,239 Speaker 2: you're you're going to get some expansion at distance, but 522 00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:46,160 Speaker 2: more likely to have a pass through at distance versus 523 00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:48,359 Speaker 2: you know, two or three hundred yards where they're going 524 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:50,199 Speaker 2: to be more frangible. 525 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:02,800 Speaker 1: Just for conversation's sake, like out of your smokeless and 526 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:04,600 Speaker 1: you guys, is you know forty five's or even the 527 00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:08,200 Speaker 1: smokeless how fast are you guys pushing those bullets typically. 528 00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:11,520 Speaker 2: So like twenty eight hundred. I mean some of our 529 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:15,160 Speaker 2: are like we'll we'll build some more like land cannons 530 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:17,399 Speaker 2: for the guys in the Midwest or just going to 531 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:20,800 Speaker 2: a box line, but you know, sometimes will be north 532 00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:23,119 Speaker 2: of three thousand feet per second with a three hundred 533 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:25,560 Speaker 2: grain bullet out of those, God. 534 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:27,000 Speaker 1: I don't want to I don't want to shoot that 535 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:28,760 Speaker 1: thing without a muscle break on it. I don't think. 536 00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:32,160 Speaker 3: No, they're they're they're vicious. 537 00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:35,200 Speaker 2: I occasionally get the guy that that wants it without 538 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:37,560 Speaker 2: a break and I'd say about ninety percent of the 539 00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:39,720 Speaker 2: time those end up back in the shop get a 540 00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:41,359 Speaker 2: break on after they get them. 541 00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:45,480 Speaker 1: So yeah, uh, in my load development, the guy that 542 00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:49,040 Speaker 1: runs our range, the local gunsmith here, he was out 543 00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:51,679 Speaker 1: there and he's seen that I pulled that muzzliter out 544 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:53,280 Speaker 1: and we're gonna do some load testing, and he's like, 545 00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:54,680 Speaker 1: I was about ready to go home, but he's like, 546 00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:57,479 Speaker 1: I couldn't not, you know, get the entertainment out of this. 547 00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:01,640 Speaker 1: And so even that three and twenty green bullet going right, 548 00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:03,280 Speaker 1: you know, like I said, right around twenty one hundred 549 00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:06,200 Speaker 1: feet per second. Like I'm a big guy. I'm six 550 00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:08,560 Speaker 1: three two fifty, not that that makes you tough or not. 551 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:12,280 Speaker 1: But by time fifteen shots was done, like I would 552 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:15,639 Speaker 1: say about shot six or seven, like it was physical discomfort, 553 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:17,320 Speaker 1: and by like shot ten or eleven, like it was 554 00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:20,800 Speaker 1: starting to get painful, like physically painful, like a grown 555 00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:22,840 Speaker 1: man hitting you in the shoulder as hard as he 556 00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:24,639 Speaker 1: could every time. I'm like, this is not fun. 557 00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:28,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, I will say, I've know this and maybe some 558 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:32,000 Speaker 2: of it is just my body's losing feeling and I 559 00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:35,600 Speaker 2: just don't know this is as much anymore. But the 560 00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:38,800 Speaker 2: newer stocks with like a negative comb where the stock 561 00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:42,760 Speaker 2: isn't smashing your face as much. Like I'll go and shoot, 562 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:45,880 Speaker 2: you know, twenty or thirty shots, maybe even forty some days, 563 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:48,800 Speaker 2: depending on how many guns we have to test fire, 564 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:51,320 Speaker 2: and I don't I don't feel it nearly as much 565 00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:53,280 Speaker 2: as I used to. You know, my face used to 566 00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:55,480 Speaker 2: ache and all that stuff. So I think, you know, 567 00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:59,359 Speaker 2: thankfully there's been some advancements that way that help help 568 00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:00,480 Speaker 2: with with that. 569 00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:03,720 Speaker 3: But yeah, they do. They do beat you up pretty good. 570 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:10,199 Speaker 1: Yeah, is is do this like on the rifles? Do 571 00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:12,480 Speaker 1: the stalks, do the discelerator pads like do any Does 572 00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:15,200 Speaker 1: any of that matter or is it just it's gonna. 573 00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:18,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I I mean I've I bought some 574 00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:22,080 Speaker 2: fancied like almost like a lead sled back in the day, 575 00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:24,800 Speaker 2: and you know, it may be helped some, but it 576 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:27,479 Speaker 2: was it was kind of cumbersome, especially when you had 577 00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:29,679 Speaker 2: a half dozen guns to shoot. So I kind of 578 00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:32,960 Speaker 2: just you know, I bought the kick easy shoulder pads 579 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:37,800 Speaker 2: and stuff and at some point like recoils, just recoil. 580 00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:39,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but yeah, I. 581 00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:41,160 Speaker 2: Think that you know, the muzzle breaks help a lot, 582 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:43,840 Speaker 2: and the better stocks like now, now, I would say, 583 00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:45,840 Speaker 2: you know, we have a lot of you know, my 584 00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:48,440 Speaker 2: buddy takes his ten year old kid out there every 585 00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:50,359 Speaker 2: year and he smokes a deer with with one of 586 00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:54,440 Speaker 2: our full power loads. So you know, it's much more manageable. 587 00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:56,359 Speaker 2: Like you were, I think you were running yours without 588 00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:56,840 Speaker 2: a break. 589 00:27:57,080 --> 00:27:59,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I'm yeah, I might. We might be talking 590 00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:01,520 Speaker 1: after this podcast and get my guns sent to you 591 00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:03,800 Speaker 1: and they're at least sent to you, and get one put 592 00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:05,720 Speaker 1: on and then you know, we'll talk about that a 593 00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:06,959 Speaker 1: little bit. But you know, then you have to do 594 00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:09,399 Speaker 1: like the pour through funnel, right, so you're not losing 595 00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:14,760 Speaker 1: powdered through the break. And yeah, that's something I definitely 596 00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:16,320 Speaker 1: need to do. The only problem is, and I have 597 00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:19,760 Speaker 1: the same issue with with my my high powered rifles, 598 00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:23,080 Speaker 1: is it seems like something happens fast and I don't 599 00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:24,919 Speaker 1: have time to get my hearing protection in and I 600 00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:27,800 Speaker 1: pulled my trigger more times and I carry to admit 601 00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:30,480 Speaker 1: without hearing protection in. And that's something I need to 602 00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:32,720 Speaker 1: get better at or have, just like the you know 603 00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:34,840 Speaker 1: we around here we call them just like the loggers, 604 00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:37,800 Speaker 1: you know, hearing protection just the orange wrap around your neck, 605 00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:39,680 Speaker 1: you know, the plastic connector and then you can throw 606 00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:42,400 Speaker 1: them in real quick and if nothing else take you know, 607 00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:46,440 Speaker 1: twenty twenty five decibels off the high end, it looks 608 00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:48,360 Speaker 1: like on muzzlers. I try to do some research just 609 00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:50,600 Speaker 1: because I'm in the process of order in a silencer 610 00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:54,120 Speaker 1: for my seven short action ultramad because that's my main 611 00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:56,440 Speaker 1: you know, hunting gun. But there are some cans for 612 00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:58,480 Speaker 1: these muzzlers, but they are huge, and I don't think 613 00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:00,480 Speaker 1: anybody wants necessarily hunt with them and you're in a 614 00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:03,120 Speaker 1: ground blind or not moving a whole lot. 615 00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:06,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I started doing it back when I was 616 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:09,080 Speaker 2: in Iowa, so probably eight nine years ago. I had 617 00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:12,840 Speaker 2: a silence co Hybrid. Actually I still have that suppressor. 618 00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:15,520 Speaker 2: It's a it's a great kind of all around suppressor. 619 00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:21,400 Speaker 2: But yeah, you can. Yeah, they do. 620 00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:21,960 Speaker 3: A good job. 621 00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:24,360 Speaker 2: Like I'm not sure you know, if you have if 622 00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:26,560 Speaker 2: you were in the Western state and running black Horn 623 00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:28,480 Speaker 2: two a nine, you would definitely want one that you 624 00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:30,400 Speaker 2: could fully disassemble. 625 00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:32,000 Speaker 3: Just for for cleaning purposes. 626 00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:35,000 Speaker 2: But one of the issues I ran into back in 627 00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:38,720 Speaker 2: Iowa was that it actually traps a lot of heat 628 00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:42,360 Speaker 2: and condensation in the bore. So if you're not removing 629 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:44,880 Speaker 2: it every time and it's humid out like, you will 630 00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:46,680 Speaker 2: soak your powder if you're shooting a bunch. 631 00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:49,200 Speaker 3: So I I. 632 00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:51,840 Speaker 2: You know, if you're you know, if you're just looking 633 00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:54,120 Speaker 2: the high volume shoot at the range, it's probably not 634 00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:57,000 Speaker 2: the best option. But you know, for hunting it is nice. 635 00:29:57,040 --> 00:29:59,520 Speaker 2: But for me it's it's probably easier just taking the 636 00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:04,600 Speaker 2: airplug uggs versus uh, you know, dealing with the hassle 637 00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:07,760 Speaker 2: loading through loading through a suppressor on the muzzleborder. 638 00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:13,719 Speaker 1: Yeah. So John McCarty is asking what is the ideal 639 00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:16,560 Speaker 1: effective range? And these are all subjective for shooting an 640 00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:19,920 Speaker 1: elk with a muzzlater in our opinion, and it depends 641 00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:21,440 Speaker 1: on your system, right, because you have a gun that 642 00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:23,840 Speaker 1: might be super accurate out the six or seven hundred 643 00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:26,320 Speaker 1: and have plenty of energy where my you know gun 644 00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:29,000 Speaker 1: set up for Washington, may you know, I might say 645 00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:31,840 Speaker 1: I could probably shoot one at this distance, but you know, 646 00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:34,080 Speaker 1: and it depends on how good you can shoot the gun. Yeah, 647 00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:35,960 Speaker 1: how good your load is, you know all of that. 648 00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:40,960 Speaker 1: But I set and I haven't told anybody this because 649 00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:43,600 Speaker 1: some I not necessarily embarrassed of it. I just don't 650 00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:45,680 Speaker 1: want people saying, oh, you can't hunt, so you had 651 00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:48,880 Speaker 1: to shoot, you know, But like I had, we've talked 652 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:51,560 Speaker 1: about this, Like I was consistently hitting an eight by ten, 653 00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:54,960 Speaker 1: you know, three shots in a row, eight by ten 654 00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:57,440 Speaker 1: target at three hundred and thirty yards. Our our yardage 655 00:30:57,440 --> 00:31:00,800 Speaker 1: hears all set up in meters because of some competition shooting. 656 00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:02,480 Speaker 1: They do. So if you're at three hundred year really 657 00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:05,120 Speaker 1: at three thirty, you're at three hundred meters, you know, 658 00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:09,000 Speaker 1: hit that little eight by ten every time, you know, 659 00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:11,640 Speaker 1: dial my scope down, down, my scope back up. My 660 00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:14,440 Speaker 1: My clicks were consistent, and so I had set on 661 00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:17,680 Speaker 1: an ELK three hundred and fifty yards. As long as 662 00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:20,360 Speaker 1: I can get a rest and make a good, comfortable 663 00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:23,120 Speaker 1: shot like that was my limit. The energy chart showed 664 00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:25,640 Speaker 1: that we were still above I think we're somebody can 665 00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:27,120 Speaker 1: run the numbers on me. I think we were still 666 00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:30,800 Speaker 1: above two thousand foot pounds at that three fifty range 667 00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:33,480 Speaker 1: maybe a little bit less. We didn't go like under 668 00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:35,200 Speaker 1: the speed of sound until like four to fifty. So 669 00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:36,400 Speaker 1: I was just like looking at the chart, like where 670 00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:38,360 Speaker 1: am I very you know comfortable blove line? 671 00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:38,560 Speaker 3: How? 672 00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:40,680 Speaker 1: How good can I shoot? How you know, can the 673 00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:44,200 Speaker 1: bullet and the energy you know, handle and work at that? 674 00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:46,120 Speaker 1: So I had set mine at three fifty and that 675 00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:48,920 Speaker 1: was on perfect conditions because of the one X scope. 676 00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:51,520 Speaker 1: You know, where you might be able to say seven 677 00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:55,400 Speaker 1: eight hundred yards with the with the right build, you know, 678 00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:59,320 Speaker 1: and the right win. The other thing is comfortable conditions, 679 00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:01,760 Speaker 1: is you know, being a long range rifle shooter, if 680 00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:05,520 Speaker 1: you got ten especially on these bolts at water bcs 681 00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:08,840 Speaker 1: of two point twos to point threes maybe max. 682 00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:11,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, you're forty five, so I don't wind drift and feet. 683 00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:14,440 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, and you know these bolts are going slow 684 00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:16,640 Speaker 1: where you know on my three thirty eight edge or 685 00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:19,400 Speaker 1: my seven short action ultramag, I still have to read 686 00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:21,360 Speaker 1: the wind, but I can. I got a lot more 687 00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:23,760 Speaker 1: fudge factor in there. These muzzle orders, you missed the 688 00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:26,720 Speaker 1: win read by two or three miles an hour. Extended 689 00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:28,640 Speaker 1: range you're gonna just you know, you're gonna hit something 690 00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:30,680 Speaker 1: three feet off or you're just gonna miss. 691 00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:33,800 Speaker 2: Well, and then follow up shots as well are much slower. 692 00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:36,479 Speaker 2: Right if you you know, long range with a rifle, 693 00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:38,160 Speaker 2: if you're you know, you're on the gun and you 694 00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:40,480 Speaker 2: got to get buddy, that's a good spot. Or right, 695 00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:43,440 Speaker 2: you can have a you know, a round on the 696 00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:47,200 Speaker 2: way a second or two after the first one gets there. Right, 697 00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:51,720 Speaker 2: So it's yeah, it's I think there's there's really too 698 00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:54,920 Speaker 2: many different muzzlers out there to way too subjective to 699 00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:58,200 Speaker 2: give a number, like there's there's no substitute for you 700 00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:01,880 Speaker 2: figure out practicing with you're a gun as far as 701 00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:05,040 Speaker 2: like our are the effective range of our customs, you know, 702 00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:07,360 Speaker 2: we were talking about that maybe a little early in 703 00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:10,560 Speaker 2: this podcast or before, I can't remember, but you know, 704 00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:14,280 Speaker 2: energy wise, yeah, we're good the seventy eight hundred yards, 705 00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:18,120 Speaker 2: but wind drift calls, I mean we're talking I think 706 00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:21,280 Speaker 2: past like six hundred yards, like one mile per hour 707 00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:25,840 Speaker 2: wind is a moa of drift approximately, So no one's 708 00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:30,200 Speaker 2: good enough to call win that well. So yeah, I 709 00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:33,080 Speaker 2: really feel like four or five hundred yards is a 710 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:38,000 Speaker 2: you know, ethical max for most people. 711 00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:43,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, so this one and I don't know how. 712 00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:45,640 Speaker 1: We talked about this a little bit before too. Like, 713 00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:48,360 Speaker 1: you know, we hear a lot of Northwest compliant muzzies, 714 00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:51,360 Speaker 1: you know, Northwest compliant muzzle orders. We seem to be 715 00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:54,120 Speaker 1: we seem to kind of hold onto that traditional as 716 00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:56,120 Speaker 1: long as we could, and now some of the laws 717 00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:58,560 Speaker 1: have allowed us to to kind of get through that. 718 00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:01,880 Speaker 1: But when looking at Northwest this comes from Blake Lions. 719 00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:05,480 Speaker 1: When looking at Northwest compliant muzzies, what should you be 720 00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:07,520 Speaker 1: looking at? You know, are you looking at the Remingtons 721 00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:09,600 Speaker 1: now that they're legal? The Knights? Like who's making I 722 00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:10,440 Speaker 1: guess who's making good? 723 00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:13,719 Speaker 2: I mean, I mean Northwest compliant. I take that to 724 00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:16,839 Speaker 2: mean like Oregon and Idaho as well. I mean that's 725 00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:20,200 Speaker 2: more so, I don't even think Washington really falls into 726 00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:25,319 Speaker 2: Northwest compliant, well not anymore. Yeah right, So, I you know, 727 00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:30,560 Speaker 2: I'm definitely not the guy. You know, it's probably been 728 00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:33,759 Speaker 2: twenty years since I've really messed with you know, quote 729 00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:37,360 Speaker 2: unquote Northwest compliant muzzloaders. So I you know, when I 730 00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:40,719 Speaker 2: get that question, I usually send guys towards towards night, 731 00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:43,640 Speaker 2: Like I think they probably make the best Northwest compliant 732 00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:47,640 Speaker 2: muzzloaders and you're just not gonna get you know, I've 733 00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:50,680 Speaker 2: I mean going back twenty years ago. Maybe there's some 734 00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:52,759 Speaker 2: improvements out there that I'm not aware of, but I 735 00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:56,920 Speaker 2: feel like a percussion cap type muzsloader is a you know, 736 00:34:57,000 --> 00:35:01,000 Speaker 2: one hundred, one hundred and twenty five yard type weap yep. 737 00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:03,640 Speaker 1: And uh, you know, back back when we were I 738 00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:07,200 Speaker 1: guess back when my state, Washington was Northwest compliant type, 739 00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:10,880 Speaker 1: you know, we had some guys shooting you know, some 740 00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:13,520 Speaker 1: Ruger made a muzzler there for for a little bit 741 00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:17,560 Speaker 1: that did really well. Yeah, there were some guys shooting 742 00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:19,799 Speaker 1: those around here. You had a lot of the night 743 00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:22,400 Speaker 1: guys that had the double safety and so many guys 744 00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:25,040 Speaker 1: had the bad stories of not like twisting that safety 745 00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:28,040 Speaker 1: and missing a shot or not that safety backed out. 746 00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:30,000 Speaker 1: So we had a lot of those or I guess 747 00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:31,440 Speaker 1: you had to screw it forwards with the firing pin 748 00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:35,240 Speaker 1: actually hit and then like I remember, I ran because 749 00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:38,120 Speaker 1: Traditions back in the day, and all the local gun 750 00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:41,040 Speaker 1: shops or you know stores would sell like a Northwest 751 00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:44,160 Speaker 1: conversion of a Traditions which was had a little longer 752 00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:46,960 Speaker 1: barrel already kind of came like muzzle broke, you know, 753 00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:50,160 Speaker 1: just spiral fluted muscle break and you know, some stuff 754 00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:54,120 Speaker 1: like that. But uh, and you know all and I 755 00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:56,200 Speaker 1: may be wrong, but I believe all of those states 756 00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:58,879 Speaker 1: allow black powder black powder substitute, so you still could 757 00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:00,920 Speaker 1: run black horn too nine if you wanted something a 758 00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:04,320 Speaker 1: little cleaner, maybe a little more performance out of those. 759 00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:06,799 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I think you're gonna have. 760 00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:09,160 Speaker 2: I mean that I have a really hard time getting 761 00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:13,319 Speaker 2: blackhorn to a nine to ignite consistently with a percussion cap. 762 00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:17,240 Speaker 2: And even we we run into it pretty commonly with 763 00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:21,640 Speaker 2: with guys using Blackhorn two a nine with a shotgun 764 00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:26,239 Speaker 2: primer system where they go grab the muzzleoader specific shotgun 765 00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:30,560 Speaker 2: primers and that those are actually a reduced power charge. 766 00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:33,920 Speaker 2: I think it helps with fouling with with Pirate X 767 00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:37,719 Speaker 2: and Triple seven. So with Blackhorn, you really either need 768 00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:40,480 Speaker 2: to be using a large rifle magnum primer system or 769 00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:46,160 Speaker 2: Federal or CCI magnum shotgun primers, not the standard ones. 770 00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:48,960 Speaker 1: Gotcha just to get that Blackhorn to ignite. So that's 771 00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:51,200 Speaker 1: good to know. Like maybe if you're forced to use 772 00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:53,919 Speaker 1: percussion caps or musket caps. 773 00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:55,719 Speaker 3: They stand away from blackhorns, not for you. 774 00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:58,759 Speaker 1: Yeah, so in that case, I mean there's lots of 775 00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:01,799 Speaker 1: you know, you got the the white hots, You've got pyroecks, 776 00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:04,120 Speaker 1: You've got all these different pellets. Now, like, is there 777 00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:06,439 Speaker 1: one that's better than the other or at the point 778 00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:08,200 Speaker 1: where you're not gonna be able to shoot farther than 779 00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:10,480 Speaker 1: one hundred and twenty five one hundred and fifty yards, Like, 780 00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:12,680 Speaker 1: is there any advantage? Have you been messing around with 781 00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:13,680 Speaker 1: a lot of these powers. 782 00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:15,839 Speaker 2: That's where I'm so far removed from that because I've 783 00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:18,359 Speaker 2: just made the choice as a business to focus on 784 00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:21,560 Speaker 2: the higher, higher performance stuff. Like you know, I think 785 00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:24,160 Speaker 2: there's some really good threads on rock Side and some 786 00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:27,080 Speaker 2: of the the other forums. If you if you're going 787 00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:30,520 Speaker 2: down that rabbit, well, I'd probably send you the wrong direction. 788 00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:35,840 Speaker 1: No, I appreciate you being honest there. And this was 789 00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:38,400 Speaker 1: a question I had, but Blake Lyons also kind of 790 00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:40,680 Speaker 1: asks this. And it's very important to us here in 791 00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:44,520 Speaker 1: the Northwest because we do usually by time mid October 792 00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:47,080 Speaker 1: rolls around, we don't have good weather. We're hunting the rain. 793 00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:51,000 Speaker 1: We're hunting our rain gear. Tips for keeping powder or 794 00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:53,040 Speaker 1: primers dry, Like, are you just a guy that like, hey, 795 00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:56,000 Speaker 1: put like a small you know, water balloon over the barrel, Like, 796 00:37:56,040 --> 00:37:57,160 Speaker 1: what's what tips? 797 00:37:57,160 --> 00:37:58,080 Speaker 3: Because I like on. 798 00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:01,719 Speaker 2: Ours, I'll electrical tape them suzzle. Uh you know, we're 799 00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:04,759 Speaker 2: blowing enough gas out where that that tape's coming off 800 00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:08,319 Speaker 2: before the before the bullet gets to it. And then uh, 801 00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:11,720 Speaker 2: you know, since our ignition system one hundred percent seal 802 00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:15,480 Speaker 2: you know, at a full pressure muzzle or load, my 803 00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:19,080 Speaker 2: assumption is like a spent primer module in the breach 804 00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:21,960 Speaker 2: is going to because we don't generally in the West, right, 805 00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:25,600 Speaker 2: we're not walking around with a with a primed loaded 806 00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:29,319 Speaker 2: right or you know, a chamber ground prime buzzleoader. So yeah, 807 00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:32,719 Speaker 2: I'll just drop a spent module in there to help 808 00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:36,799 Speaker 2: seal the breach. And then I mean that that's been 809 00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:40,200 Speaker 2: very effective, uh doing it that way. Actually, the the 810 00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:44,799 Speaker 2: most most common misfire we have is is actually like 811 00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:48,400 Speaker 2: the first round after somebody cleans where they you clean, 812 00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:51,520 Speaker 2: load it up and go hunt. And with the idea 813 00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:55,080 Speaker 2: with black horn, right and especially definitely smokeless is noncrosis. 814 00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:56,399 Speaker 3: You can you can. 815 00:38:56,840 --> 00:39:00,440 Speaker 2: Hunt on a on a fouled bore, but yeah, oil 816 00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:02,520 Speaker 2: is I mean, it just does not take much oil 817 00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:06,400 Speaker 2: or why you should misfire. So we actually see you know, 818 00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:09,200 Speaker 2: more issues from that necessarily than than people hunting in 819 00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:11,759 Speaker 2: the rain. So we're always hunting on the foul boar 820 00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:13,919 Speaker 2: here at least a couple of shots to burn off 821 00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:16,000 Speaker 2: any any cleaning solvent. 822 00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:18,799 Speaker 1: Yeah. So back when I was young, I remember my 823 00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:20,360 Speaker 1: dad like after I clean my muzzle or like go 824 00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:22,279 Speaker 1: out and snap a couple of caps off, Like does 825 00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:23,959 Speaker 1: that get the oil or does that even do anything 826 00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:24,560 Speaker 1: with the oil? 827 00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:28,160 Speaker 2: I mean it might burn off that water like we 828 00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:31,319 Speaker 2: used to clean them in the bathtub or bucket of water. Yeah, 829 00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:35,040 Speaker 2: it definitely is not enough to clear out oil residue. 830 00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:37,239 Speaker 1: So if you do, if you do want to clean 831 00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:38,880 Speaker 1: your gun, go back out to the rain, shoot a 832 00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:41,400 Speaker 1: couple more times, and then keep it like semi clean, 833 00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:45,279 Speaker 1: yeah for a little bit. Yeah, okay, yeah, and then 834 00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:48,560 Speaker 1: so when we clean these things, I'm going to add 835 00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:50,640 Speaker 1: on to Blake's questions when we clean these things, like 836 00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:53,200 Speaker 1: should we put gun oil down them after black horn 837 00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:55,080 Speaker 1: or should we just like clean them dry and then 838 00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:58,680 Speaker 1: run a bunch of dry patches through versus a solvent? 839 00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:00,279 Speaker 1: Or should you put a layer of oil in them 840 00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:01,560 Speaker 1: and just know that you're gonna have to shoot that 841 00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:02,319 Speaker 1: out next year. 842 00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:05,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, if a long term story storage on 843 00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:08,160 Speaker 2: on a muzzloader, I like to, you know, run a 844 00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:12,719 Speaker 2: couple oil patches definitely before I put it away. I like, 845 00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:19,080 Speaker 2: strike hold it's a solvent. They're like a lubricating oil. 846 00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:21,600 Speaker 2: We use a bunch of that in the shop. It 847 00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:24,280 Speaker 2: kind of dries, dries off and just leaves a film. 848 00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:28,640 Speaker 2: So that that's that's one I like for for us preventative. 849 00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:30,680 Speaker 3: But yeah, I'm. 850 00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:33,800 Speaker 2: I'm just not like I don't trust patches enough in 851 00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:36,799 Speaker 2: a muzzloader too. If I'm heading to the range, I'm 852 00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:39,359 Speaker 2: not you know, I'm I'm not worried about it, right, 853 00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:42,280 Speaker 2: But if if I'm on a hunt, I'm only trusting 854 00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:44,720 Speaker 2: it if I'd actually fired off a couple of shots 855 00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:46,880 Speaker 2: and I've burned everything off. 856 00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:51,440 Speaker 1: So back to that, just just for my own knowledge, 857 00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:55,360 Speaker 1: is do do does point of impact move on a 858 00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:58,000 Speaker 1: muzzloader from a clean shot to a couple of shots. 859 00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:01,960 Speaker 2: We see it on our on our customs for sure. 860 00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:04,759 Speaker 2: I mean every you know, every load combo is going 861 00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:08,600 Speaker 2: to be different. But yeah, we uh with with blackhorn, 862 00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:12,120 Speaker 2: we actually see a velocity spike on the clean barrel. 863 00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:13,640 Speaker 3: There's there's less friction. 864 00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:17,160 Speaker 2: I guess it speeds up so well, generally we're about 865 00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:20,719 Speaker 2: one one and a half m a high on a 866 00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:23,359 Speaker 2: clean boar versus versus a folage boar. 867 00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:25,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, That's where I was at because I had to 868 00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:28,239 Speaker 1: I shot my gun, had to leave on a new 869 00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:30,120 Speaker 1: Mexico archery all count and then come home and just 870 00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:31,880 Speaker 1: pick it up. And I was worried should I clean it? 871 00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:33,239 Speaker 1: You know, I know black horn is supposed to be 872 00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:35,840 Speaker 1: non corossive, but it just being an old school pirate 873 00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:37,680 Speaker 1: ex guy like, I need to clean this thing. Yeah, 874 00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:40,000 Speaker 1: And we just kind of left it dirty for three 875 00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:41,719 Speaker 1: or four weeks and then loaded it because I was 876 00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:43,920 Speaker 1: scared to clean it because I didn't want my first shot, 877 00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:45,560 Speaker 1: you know. So I was in that battle of do 878 00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:47,160 Speaker 1: I clean it they go and shoot it again or 879 00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:49,680 Speaker 1: do I just you know, and and the guy that 880 00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:51,840 Speaker 1: runs the range and you're always trying to take advice, 881 00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:53,440 Speaker 1: he's like, oh, as long as the bullet still goes 882 00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:55,399 Speaker 1: down the boar, you're good. And I'm like, all right, 883 00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:58,120 Speaker 1: you know, just keep shooting until the bullet doesn't go down, 884 00:41:58,160 --> 00:41:59,720 Speaker 1: and I'm like, I don't know if that's great advice, 885 00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:03,319 Speaker 1: but it worked in the gun. You know, still still 886 00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:05,200 Speaker 1: hit where it needed to even four weeks later. But 887 00:42:05,239 --> 00:42:09,160 Speaker 1: I've always wondered, you know, if point of impact moves tremendously, 888 00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:11,200 Speaker 1: and that's something I just haven't had enough time on this. 889 00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:12,560 Speaker 1: I guess next year when I go to shoot it, 890 00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:14,560 Speaker 1: I'll find out on a clean barrel, like how close 891 00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:17,480 Speaker 1: is it to still be insided in? Yeah, you know, 892 00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:19,440 Speaker 1: and then I'll have more time on it. But yeah, 893 00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:22,080 Speaker 1: I elected to just keep hunting with it, like twenty 894 00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:24,440 Speaker 1: shots in dirty and I And that's where I don't know, 895 00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:26,960 Speaker 1: is there is there a number like ten shots is 896 00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:29,760 Speaker 1: extremely fouled or is it like a custom built rifle 897 00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:32,440 Speaker 1: where And maybe you have different advice than I've been told, 898 00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:34,680 Speaker 1: But I haven't cleaned my custom rifle since like the 899 00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:37,000 Speaker 1: first ten shots through them that you know, until they 900 00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:39,680 Speaker 1: start shooting bad, like don't touch your rifle barrel. 901 00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:42,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, it was funny conversation, right. 902 00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:44,759 Speaker 2: I was just over on the Go Hunt podcast and 903 00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:48,480 Speaker 2: kind of laughing with Brady because he's like clean my 904 00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:51,280 Speaker 2: gun every range trip guy, and you know, I don't. 905 00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:53,719 Speaker 2: I don't have that kind of time, so I'm more 906 00:42:53,719 --> 00:42:57,160 Speaker 2: in your camp where I'll usually clean my rifles like 907 00:42:57,200 --> 00:43:00,239 Speaker 2: once a year, you know, is where I'm at. As 908 00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:05,279 Speaker 2: far as cleaning goes with black Horn. Really, it kind 909 00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:07,359 Speaker 2: of you know, after first couple of shots, you kind 910 00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:10,000 Speaker 2: of hit us, you know, a steady state with maybe 911 00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:13,400 Speaker 2: just some slight increase in following as it goes on. 912 00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:18,239 Speaker 2: So generally I haven't really seen of accuracy drop with 913 00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:21,600 Speaker 2: black Horn either, it's just at some point, like with 914 00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:24,600 Speaker 2: with the very universal fit or the barlock, where it 915 00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:28,319 Speaker 2: can accommodate some bore diameter variation. You may never run 916 00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:30,960 Speaker 2: into a situation where it's too hard to load. On 917 00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:34,920 Speaker 2: our customs where it's you know, it's not as nearly forgiving. 918 00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:39,160 Speaker 2: We're generally seeing like ten to twenty shots and then 919 00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:43,200 Speaker 2: it gets hard to load. So we'll do it as 920 00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:45,680 Speaker 2: a solvent patch and a couple of dry patches just 921 00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:46,960 Speaker 2: to knock the following down. 922 00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:50,440 Speaker 1: Gotcha, and you're good to go again without a complete cleaning. 923 00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:51,120 Speaker 3: Yeah. 924 00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:53,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, I end of the year is really the only 925 00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:56,200 Speaker 2: time I do a complete like straight down clean. 926 00:43:56,960 --> 00:43:59,640 Speaker 1: Yeah. No, I'm gonna roll my question right on the 927 00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:02,160 Speaker 1: end of Lakes, because the way this podcast is going, 928 00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:04,200 Speaker 1: we're probably gonna not get not get out of these 929 00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:08,800 Speaker 1: listener questions. So on on the cleaning, do you recommend 930 00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:10,880 Speaker 1: removing the breach for a full cleaning or do you 931 00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:11,480 Speaker 1: just run? 932 00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:15,960 Speaker 2: I mean, I don't think it's super critical, but I've 933 00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:18,160 Speaker 2: seen them, you know, over the years where they just 934 00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:21,000 Speaker 2: get locked in, and I mean on our it doesn't 935 00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:22,839 Speaker 2: hurt anything to pull it out, and then you know 936 00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:26,000 Speaker 2: you at least broke that carbon crubt once a year 937 00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:28,080 Speaker 2: is so you know maybe in five years when you 938 00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:31,120 Speaker 2: have a misfire and you need to to pull that 939 00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:33,160 Speaker 2: breach plug, you know you can do it. 940 00:44:33,560 --> 00:44:37,239 Speaker 1: Okay, Yeah, And that's I pulled my breach, ran a patch, 941 00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:39,360 Speaker 1: two or three patches from the and I cleaned my 942 00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:42,399 Speaker 1: muzzlo or backwards. Compared to a rifle, everything's going from 943 00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:45,320 Speaker 1: the action out the barrel. For some reason, on a muzzloader, 944 00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:48,120 Speaker 1: I clean them backwards, which maybe I shouldn't be, but 945 00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:49,920 Speaker 1: I figured, like if I took the breach out, I 946 00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:52,440 Speaker 1: would knock down like that shoulder that maybe develops in 947 00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:54,399 Speaker 1: there that I couldn't get if I didn't take it out, 948 00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:57,840 Speaker 1: get it completely cleaned and then on your guys' breach, 949 00:44:57,880 --> 00:44:59,919 Speaker 1: like it seemed to be very clean, Like I didn't 950 00:44:59,920 --> 00:45:01,200 Speaker 1: know if I should soak it and solve it. I 951 00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:03,440 Speaker 1: kind of looked at it, took a little pick to it, 952 00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:04,600 Speaker 1: and I'm like, there's not a lot in here, and 953 00:45:04,640 --> 00:45:06,080 Speaker 1: I just screwed it back in, Like do I need 954 00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:06,680 Speaker 1: to clean that bran? 955 00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:10,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, there's not much much, especially with like black horn. 956 00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:13,239 Speaker 2: It black horn burns pretty clean, so yeah, there's there's 957 00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:14,400 Speaker 2: not much there to mess with. 958 00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:17,200 Speaker 1: Will there be some like noticeable signs coming up? Like 959 00:45:17,239 --> 00:45:19,239 Speaker 1: all right, something's going on with it? Like will you 960 00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:20,200 Speaker 1: see speeds go down? 961 00:45:20,239 --> 00:45:23,160 Speaker 2: Will you see like no, I mean the only thing 962 00:45:23,719 --> 00:45:26,279 Speaker 2: over the years, Like I mean, it's pretty much a 963 00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:31,360 Speaker 2: zero maintenance system because you know, there's no the flame 964 00:45:31,440 --> 00:45:33,920 Speaker 2: channel is so short, like there's really nowhere for carbon 965 00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:35,520 Speaker 2: to build up in it. You know, the front of 966 00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:39,319 Speaker 2: the plug does have that deep recess and I got 967 00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:40,960 Speaker 2: a gun back from it. I'm not sure what he 968 00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:42,960 Speaker 2: was doing because I've really never seen it in any 969 00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:46,920 Speaker 2: other gun, but like that that recess was almost completely 970 00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:49,880 Speaker 2: carboned up, like there was a maybe an eighth of 971 00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:53,000 Speaker 2: an inch hole down through all that carbon, and we 972 00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:54,560 Speaker 2: you know, we just came in with the quarter inch 973 00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:56,560 Speaker 2: drill bit and drilled it out. So that's really the 974 00:45:56,640 --> 00:46:00,319 Speaker 2: only thing to look out for, is I'm in fact, 975 00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:04,440 Speaker 2: he was like doing some some patching and some solvent. 976 00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:06,040 Speaker 2: It started to get in there and build up or 977 00:46:06,040 --> 00:46:08,959 Speaker 2: I don't know what happened, but yeah, that's that's really 978 00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:11,680 Speaker 2: the only part to look for on it. 979 00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:14,880 Speaker 1: Yeah. The only the only issue I've had with your system, 980 00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:17,319 Speaker 1: and it's one hundred percent user er, was when I 981 00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:19,719 Speaker 1: went to DP prime, I'm like, oh, number number two 982 00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:23,319 Speaker 1: show holder, let's use a seven mag primer punch, you 983 00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:25,840 Speaker 1: know in in my old RCBS rock Chuck press. And 984 00:46:25,840 --> 00:46:28,359 Speaker 1: I'm like, huh. So I reloaded them all and went 985 00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:30,440 Speaker 1: to put him, and I noticed that the flashole was 986 00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:32,600 Speaker 1: a little bit bigger. It opened it up a little bit. 987 00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:35,040 Speaker 1: But what happened is I had thought I had backed 988 00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:36,759 Speaker 1: it down to the point where it didn't start to 989 00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:38,799 Speaker 1: flare the end of the module. Well, then it was 990 00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:41,600 Speaker 1: too long or it flared too much, and I couldn't 991 00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:43,440 Speaker 1: get the dang bolta clothes. That's why I like, in 992 00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:46,000 Speaker 1: a panic, ordered all of those yea from you. I'm like, 993 00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:48,959 Speaker 1: I ruined whatever however many fifteen or sixteen I shot, 994 00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:52,840 Speaker 1: and so then uh, I'm I'm plugging Luke's business. But 995 00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:55,000 Speaker 1: definitely get like a little cheap DP primer tools. It 996 00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:56,120 Speaker 1: was better than. 997 00:46:56,480 --> 00:46:59,440 Speaker 2: Ruining the punch, Like I just yeah, Paton and say, 998 00:46:59,520 --> 00:47:02,400 Speaker 2: but yeah, it's funny, I get that, you know, we 999 00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:05,319 Speaker 2: get that call periodically, like I shot these, you know, 1000 00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:08,080 Speaker 2: I shot the modules and they swelled now and they 1001 00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:09,879 Speaker 2: won't go back in the plug. And I'm like, well, 1002 00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:14,480 Speaker 2: that's that's physically not not possible, like your decapin on 1003 00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:15,279 Speaker 2: your press. 1004 00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:17,560 Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, I learned the hard way. I didn't 1005 00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:19,520 Speaker 1: even think about it. And then really you use my 1006 00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:21,520 Speaker 1: little hand primer and got them already, went back out 1007 00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:23,960 Speaker 1: to the range and I'm like, god, thing won't shut. 1008 00:47:24,040 --> 00:47:26,440 Speaker 1: I'm like, gosh, dang it. And I realized that I 1009 00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:34,280 Speaker 1: had ruined them all. But no, Buddy Russell Porter's asking 1010 00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:38,600 Speaker 1: he really likes your smokeless conversions. What are your favorite 1011 00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:41,879 Speaker 1: powders and what are your favorite powders for some smokeless loads, 1012 00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:45,480 Speaker 1: and then just how do they compare to a black horn, 1013 00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:48,600 Speaker 1: to a nine or a triple seven? I guess performance wise? 1014 00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:52,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean they're like, uh, I mean, obviously it 1015 00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:55,600 Speaker 2: depends on what gun bowl away and you know, the 1016 00:47:55,680 --> 00:47:58,480 Speaker 2: caveat and never used smokeless and a muzzle or that 1017 00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:01,600 Speaker 2: stamp Blackhorn two A nine only. But we're we're more 1018 00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:04,919 Speaker 2: in that Age forty one ninety eight uh h three 1019 00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:09,440 Speaker 2: twenty two benchmark burn rate. And then some of the bigger, 1020 00:48:09,640 --> 00:48:12,359 Speaker 2: bigger guns with you know, longer barrels that can burn 1021 00:48:12,440 --> 00:48:14,960 Speaker 2: some powder. We'll use like Age forty eight ninety five 1022 00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:19,120 Speaker 2: and that you know, that's will really ramp up the speed. 1023 00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:22,760 Speaker 2: But as far as black you know versus black and triples, 1024 00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:25,080 Speaker 2: I'm not I don't even really know. I've not messed 1025 00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:28,200 Speaker 2: with Triple seven much like Blackhorn. Like we're we're in 1026 00:48:28,239 --> 00:48:30,600 Speaker 2: that twenty five hundred feet per second range with a 1027 00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:34,160 Speaker 2: three hundred grain bullet with black Horn, So it's you know, 1028 00:48:34,360 --> 00:48:37,960 Speaker 2: anywhere from three to six hundred feet per second slower 1029 00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:43,360 Speaker 2: than the smokeless gotcha, we actually accurate at What's that I. 1030 00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:45,680 Speaker 1: Was gonna say? Does accuracy move? I mean, obviously they're 1031 00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:47,840 Speaker 1: different nodes and you're yeah them, but like can you 1032 00:48:47,880 --> 00:48:49,320 Speaker 1: keep them sless. 1033 00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:49,880 Speaker 3: Is more consistent? 1034 00:48:50,080 --> 00:48:50,520 Speaker 1: For sure? 1035 00:48:50,719 --> 00:48:53,359 Speaker 2: I mean, we'll still you know, we're still very subma 1036 00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:57,400 Speaker 2: with blackhorn, but I mean we're one whole groups with smokeless, 1037 00:48:57,440 --> 00:49:01,040 Speaker 2: and we actually do most of our are practicing for 1038 00:49:01,120 --> 00:49:04,279 Speaker 2: our blackhorn hunts with with smokeless. We just downloaded to 1039 00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:08,000 Speaker 2: match the blackhorn speed just because blackhorn has gotten so expensive, 1040 00:49:09,520 --> 00:49:14,080 Speaker 2: so we yeah, and then it's cleaner and less expensive 1041 00:49:14,080 --> 00:49:14,920 Speaker 2: and all that stuff. 1042 00:49:15,160 --> 00:49:16,080 Speaker 1: So gotcha. 1043 00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:17,680 Speaker 2: I mean, it's the same reason you know, you don't 1044 00:49:17,719 --> 00:49:21,319 Speaker 2: see people using blackhorn two nine and modern center fire 1045 00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:22,200 Speaker 2: kartuge trifles. 1046 00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:25,120 Speaker 3: Right, it's not as ye smoke like, it's not as good. 1047 00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:27,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just as good as it gets when it 1048 00:49:27,560 --> 00:49:29,799 Speaker 1: needs to be legal or a substitute. Right, that's when 1049 00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:32,200 Speaker 1: it shines. It's like, that's the best you can get 1050 00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:33,960 Speaker 1: when it's got to be black you know, black powder 1051 00:49:34,080 --> 00:49:46,319 Speaker 1: or substitute exactly. Yea. Our next question we kind of 1052 00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:50,000 Speaker 1: answered already. We'll just all touch on it again. Zellen 1053 00:49:50,400 --> 00:49:53,719 Speaker 1: Hessel Guesser was asking about the muzzy too on nions 1054 00:49:53,800 --> 00:49:55,520 Speaker 1: versus shotgun two and nine primers, and you've kind of 1055 00:49:55,520 --> 00:49:58,480 Speaker 1: already touched on that. It sounds like shotgun two on 1056 00:49:58,600 --> 00:50:01,480 Speaker 1: nions are souped up and maybe two nines or maybe 1057 00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:03,280 Speaker 1: de deperformed a little bit. 1058 00:50:03,480 --> 00:50:07,200 Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, I guess something with the mechanics of igniting 1059 00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:11,120 Speaker 2: triple seven. If you have a full power shotgun primer, 1060 00:50:11,160 --> 00:50:14,680 Speaker 2: you'll get more carbon build up at that croud ring. 1061 00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:17,800 Speaker 1: Gotcha. But you're saying, if you do want to elect 1062 00:50:17,800 --> 00:50:20,440 Speaker 1: to run black Horn two oh nine, then you need 1063 00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:23,840 Speaker 1: to go to that higher the magna, the actual magnium 1064 00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:28,000 Speaker 1: shotgun primers, and stay away from the Muzzy two on nines. Correct. 1065 00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:29,839 Speaker 1: And I haven't messed with you, so I'm gonna ask 1066 00:50:29,880 --> 00:50:34,000 Speaker 1: a real ignorant question. Are they explicitly like on the packaging, 1067 00:50:34,040 --> 00:50:36,080 Speaker 1: like these are Muzzy two on ninons versus these or 1068 00:50:36,560 --> 00:50:37,280 Speaker 1: shotgun relok? 1069 00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:38,640 Speaker 3: Okay they are? Yeah? 1070 00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:39,440 Speaker 1: Yeah? 1071 00:50:39,480 --> 00:50:41,920 Speaker 2: And that like the the two part numbers you want, 1072 00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:45,040 Speaker 2: it's a federal two oh nine A or the C 1073 00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:46,719 Speaker 2: C I two oh nine M. 1074 00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:47,680 Speaker 3: Are the two. 1075 00:50:47,600 --> 00:50:50,680 Speaker 2: Magnum shotgun primers you want, I'd recommend. 1076 00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:54,520 Speaker 1: Okay, Dylan roan Ish, he's asking about two and nine 1077 00:50:54,560 --> 00:50:57,120 Speaker 1: primers and his twelve year old night disc Extreme. We've 1078 00:50:57,200 --> 00:50:59,399 Speaker 1: kind of already touched on that, like at some point 1079 00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:02,960 Speaker 1: there's no big advantage in those guns, you know, unless 1080 00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:05,400 Speaker 1: you're gonna switch to you know, Blackhorn two and I 1081 00:51:05,480 --> 00:51:08,520 Speaker 1: and just for cleaning reasons and then you know running 1082 00:51:08,560 --> 00:51:13,520 Speaker 1: that that that better primer. Right, Okay, this is one 1083 00:51:13,520 --> 00:51:15,960 Speaker 1: of my questions. We kind of already touched on it, 1084 00:51:16,719 --> 00:51:20,879 Speaker 1: Chad Tyler, Lee Hornery, just that cleaning frequency, shooting clean 1085 00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:23,719 Speaker 1: versus dirty? How dirty? I wanted to just kind of 1086 00:51:23,719 --> 00:51:25,960 Speaker 1: give him credit. It's kind of a question I've already asked, 1087 00:51:26,040 --> 00:51:31,920 Speaker 1: But yeah, I do. I mean, so my cleaning we'll 1088 00:51:31,960 --> 00:51:33,640 Speaker 1: go through one more time. My cleaning is I've got 1089 00:51:33,680 --> 00:51:35,880 Speaker 1: a muzzle to rod, I've got patches specifically built for 1090 00:51:35,880 --> 00:51:38,960 Speaker 1: a fifty col I've got specific Blackhorn two and I 1091 00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:40,360 Speaker 1: and Solve, and I'm like, I might as well like 1092 00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:44,160 Speaker 1: they that's what they recommend to clean it. When I'm 1093 00:51:44,160 --> 00:51:45,960 Speaker 1: out at the range. If it's in between shots, I'll 1094 00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:48,480 Speaker 1: maybe run, you know, one solvent patch down and it 1095 00:51:48,560 --> 00:51:50,040 Speaker 1: comes right back up the barrel. I don't have to 1096 00:51:50,040 --> 00:51:52,160 Speaker 1: take out my breach. You know, it's got a neurald 1097 00:51:52,239 --> 00:51:54,440 Speaker 1: end on it. Two or three swabs, two or three 1098 00:51:54,520 --> 00:51:56,560 Speaker 1: dry patches, and I'll continue to shoot. So that's kind 1099 00:51:56,600 --> 00:51:58,640 Speaker 1: of what we talked about, kind of that dirty clean 1100 00:51:59,200 --> 00:52:03,640 Speaker 1: I guess, yeah, bloading bullets and then it sounds like 1101 00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:05,600 Speaker 1: we both break our guns down at the end of 1102 00:52:05,600 --> 00:52:07,480 Speaker 1: the season. Do you have anything else to. 1103 00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:10,160 Speaker 2: Add, Like, yeah, I mean a couple of tricks I 1104 00:52:10,280 --> 00:52:12,440 Speaker 2: do or learned over the years is I use a 1105 00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:16,719 Speaker 2: regular clinging or od and just a brush to patch with, 1106 00:52:17,080 --> 00:52:19,920 Speaker 2: Like I find that is way more consistent on actually 1107 00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:23,120 Speaker 2: getting the patch up out of the barrel than a jag. 1108 00:52:23,840 --> 00:52:26,200 Speaker 2: So like a I'll use it in a forty five 1109 00:52:26,239 --> 00:52:29,799 Speaker 2: I'll use a regular forty five col rifle brush and 1110 00:52:29,840 --> 00:52:32,640 Speaker 2: just wrap my patch around that and like like you, 1111 00:52:32,719 --> 00:52:34,680 Speaker 2: I'll go in you know for the quick and dirty, 1112 00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:38,880 Speaker 2: just right through the muzzle, so that that's that and 1113 00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:44,960 Speaker 2: then you know, we really I mean blackhorn isn't you 1114 00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:47,879 Speaker 2: can use any solvent really for cleaning that right? It's 1115 00:52:47,960 --> 00:52:50,359 Speaker 2: it's you can treat it like a regular rifle at 1116 00:52:50,360 --> 00:52:53,000 Speaker 2: that point and where you can get into some issues 1117 00:52:53,040 --> 00:52:55,879 Speaker 2: with some of the you know, black powder. Black powder 1118 00:52:55,960 --> 00:53:00,320 Speaker 2: substitutes using regular solvents for it's more like water based, 1119 00:53:00,360 --> 00:53:04,240 Speaker 2: I think, but we'll use I'll do like a fifty 1120 00:53:04,239 --> 00:53:08,680 Speaker 2: to fifty mix with a ninety uh ice propyle alcohol 1121 00:53:08,719 --> 00:53:12,799 Speaker 2: and hoppies number nine uh for my solvent. Patch just 1122 00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:15,719 Speaker 2: to help that that solvent evaporate off a little better 1123 00:53:15,800 --> 00:53:18,760 Speaker 2: if I don't get it all with the dry patch, gotcha? 1124 00:53:18,840 --> 00:53:21,160 Speaker 1: So yeah, because hoppies, if I remember it, that's a 1125 00:53:21,280 --> 00:53:25,600 Speaker 1: very fairly corrosive like or it can be cross if 1126 00:53:25,600 --> 00:53:27,160 Speaker 1: you don't get it back off right. So some people 1127 00:53:27,160 --> 00:53:30,040 Speaker 1: say it's a hot solvent. Is that? Is that right? 1128 00:53:30,200 --> 00:53:33,440 Speaker 2: I've not I've not heard that. I actually only use 1129 00:53:33,480 --> 00:53:37,040 Speaker 2: it for the muzzloaders. We actually switch to a bullet 1130 00:53:37,440 --> 00:53:40,160 Speaker 2: while we retail it Bullet Central. I think is has 1131 00:53:40,200 --> 00:53:43,680 Speaker 2: it branded? Is it's their line, but their thorough clean. 1132 00:53:44,160 --> 00:53:46,200 Speaker 2: So we've started to use that for most of like 1133 00:53:46,239 --> 00:53:49,399 Speaker 2: our deep cleaning and our rifle cleaning after we test 1134 00:53:49,440 --> 00:53:52,960 Speaker 2: fire them and that that stuff's like magic, you know 1135 00:53:54,080 --> 00:53:55,799 Speaker 2: strets that you know, it looks like a new bor 1136 00:53:55,920 --> 00:53:58,920 Speaker 2: after you run run that through there in borescope. 1137 00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:00,720 Speaker 3: It perfect. 1138 00:54:00,880 --> 00:54:03,680 Speaker 1: But so uh, now we're gonna get in the little 1139 00:54:03,680 --> 00:54:05,000 Speaker 1: We got a little bit of time left. Sorry, I 1140 00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:07,440 Speaker 1: hopefully let me know if you've got a hard stop here, Luke. 1141 00:54:07,480 --> 00:54:09,520 Speaker 1: I know you're a busy guy running a busy. 1142 00:54:09,920 --> 00:54:12,040 Speaker 3: However long we need to go, all right. 1143 00:54:11,880 --> 00:54:15,440 Speaker 1: So let's say I've just bought a Remington Ultimate or 1144 00:54:15,440 --> 00:54:17,439 Speaker 1: I've got an old night and for some reason I 1145 00:54:17,600 --> 00:54:22,400 Speaker 1: want to start to run. You know, bullet to boar type, 1146 00:54:22,640 --> 00:54:25,080 Speaker 1: you know, a fit bullet, How do you go? What 1147 00:54:25,239 --> 00:54:27,759 Speaker 1: is that process? Do you have a sample kit you 1148 00:54:27,800 --> 00:54:29,520 Speaker 1: send somebody? Is there a way to measure it with 1149 00:54:29,560 --> 00:54:31,759 Speaker 1: my micrometer? Like? How does a how does a guy 1150 00:54:31,800 --> 00:54:32,960 Speaker 1: figure out if I've got a five. 1151 00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:36,759 Speaker 2: Ozho one bore a fifty cal like I really don't 1152 00:54:36,760 --> 00:54:39,800 Speaker 2: see any advantage to getting a sizing dye and going 1153 00:54:39,840 --> 00:54:44,040 Speaker 2: straight up with the bullet to bar like the bullet 1154 00:54:44,080 --> 00:54:46,960 Speaker 2: to bar in at fifty like fifty or pretty much 1155 00:54:46,960 --> 00:54:47,600 Speaker 2: only running. 1156 00:54:47,640 --> 00:54:50,799 Speaker 3: I'm for l kunning. But you know that that bullet and. 1157 00:54:50,760 --> 00:54:55,360 Speaker 2: The bliss, like the bliss the available blistic coefficients. I 1158 00:54:55,840 --> 00:54:57,840 Speaker 2: you know, we're we're talking guns that aren't rated for 1159 00:54:57,920 --> 00:55:01,360 Speaker 2: smokeless two, so you're locked in the black horn like that. 1160 00:55:02,680 --> 00:55:03,000 Speaker 3: You're not? 1161 00:55:03,360 --> 00:55:05,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, so the you know, it's all about speed and 1162 00:55:05,680 --> 00:55:10,239 Speaker 2: blistic coefficient right for and obviously accuracy, but you're you're 1163 00:55:10,280 --> 00:55:14,000 Speaker 2: not going to find a higher BC full bore fifty 1164 00:55:14,040 --> 00:55:18,080 Speaker 2: cow bullet to shoot than like the hornity board driver 1165 00:55:18,560 --> 00:55:20,920 Speaker 2: or the Fury Like They're all going to be in 1166 00:55:20,960 --> 00:55:25,480 Speaker 2: that that same uh, same class of BC. So so 1167 00:55:25,560 --> 00:55:29,120 Speaker 2: at that point I wouldn't recommend buying a sizing diet 1168 00:55:29,120 --> 00:55:31,160 Speaker 2: for a fifty cow to mess around with. I would 1169 00:55:31,160 --> 00:55:32,719 Speaker 2: I would pick up one of those. 1170 00:55:32,520 --> 00:55:35,759 Speaker 3: Bullets and universal fits and just go on that. 1171 00:55:36,560 --> 00:55:39,239 Speaker 2: Now you get into the forty five col you know, 1172 00:55:39,320 --> 00:55:42,239 Speaker 2: that's that's where uh, you know you can you can 1173 00:55:42,280 --> 00:55:46,319 Speaker 2: definitely get a ballistic coefficient bump going to the you know, 1174 00:55:46,360 --> 00:55:49,640 Speaker 2: the lead the copper jacket lead core bullets like the 1175 00:55:49,800 --> 00:55:54,520 Speaker 2: narrowhead XLD line. I think we're at like a point 1176 00:55:54,560 --> 00:55:58,440 Speaker 2: four g one BC on our three hundred grain bullet, 1177 00:55:58,600 --> 00:56:02,000 Speaker 2: So it's a you know, pretty pretty big jump over 1178 00:56:02,520 --> 00:56:05,960 Speaker 2: like a power belt or the horn the hornity. I 1179 00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:09,120 Speaker 2: think they're advertising that at point three one five g one, 1180 00:56:09,160 --> 00:56:11,600 Speaker 2: which is is still really good for two hundred eighty 1181 00:56:11,600 --> 00:56:15,160 Speaker 2: five grain bullet, you know historically, but it's you know, 1182 00:56:15,200 --> 00:56:19,319 Speaker 2: it's a whatever, a twenty five percent hit over over 1183 00:56:19,360 --> 00:56:22,640 Speaker 2: our three hundred grain uh and then you you you 1184 00:56:22,680 --> 00:56:26,680 Speaker 2: can build the pressure, get your speed up more in 1185 00:56:26,760 --> 00:56:30,440 Speaker 2: that full bore. But the process with that really is 1186 00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:34,239 Speaker 2: really you can hoping, you know, buy We offer them 1187 00:56:34,280 --> 00:56:36,359 Speaker 2: in a couple of different diameters. You can buy them 1188 00:56:36,360 --> 00:56:38,640 Speaker 2: and hope you get lucky, but really the best way 1189 00:56:38,719 --> 00:56:41,640 Speaker 2: unless you have a you know, an aftermarket like a 1190 00:56:41,640 --> 00:56:45,480 Speaker 2: brock barrel or unbarrel, something that's cut rifle and has 1191 00:56:45,520 --> 00:56:49,440 Speaker 2: held the dimension super close, or where our pretty size 1192 00:56:49,440 --> 00:56:51,640 Speaker 2: bullets would work, you're you're going to be needing to 1193 00:56:51,640 --> 00:56:56,680 Speaker 2: buy a sizing die, which the dye is adjustables. You 1194 00:56:56,680 --> 00:56:58,759 Speaker 2: you know, you start pull your breech plug and just 1195 00:56:58,800 --> 00:57:02,080 Speaker 2: start twisting to die down, running the bullet through on 1196 00:57:02,120 --> 00:57:05,080 Speaker 2: your press or like a lead hand press, until you 1197 00:57:05,120 --> 00:57:10,719 Speaker 2: get a consistent, easy, like firm one hand like you're 1198 00:57:10,719 --> 00:57:13,279 Speaker 2: looking for about eight to ten pounds, so like the 1199 00:57:13,320 --> 00:57:16,360 Speaker 2: palm of your hand on the ram rod is the 1200 00:57:16,400 --> 00:57:18,640 Speaker 2: loading pressure you're looking for. 1201 00:57:19,960 --> 00:57:20,320 Speaker 1: Gotcha. 1202 00:57:20,360 --> 00:57:23,920 Speaker 2: And then depending on the ignition system, you know, like 1203 00:57:23,960 --> 00:57:26,400 Speaker 2: a shotgun primer, you're probably going to benefit from a 1204 00:57:26,440 --> 00:57:30,120 Speaker 2: wad like either a veggie wad or a wool wod 1205 00:57:30,160 --> 00:57:32,680 Speaker 2: between the powder and the primer just to help with 1206 00:57:32,760 --> 00:57:37,280 Speaker 2: the initial seal and then optraating. If you're with our 1207 00:57:37,320 --> 00:57:41,800 Speaker 2: ignition system which is more efficient where you're using higher 1208 00:57:41,800 --> 00:57:45,520 Speaker 2: pressure like blackhorn too a nine or or smoke lists, 1209 00:57:45,840 --> 00:57:48,480 Speaker 2: you probably get away without the wad or that that 1210 00:57:48,720 --> 00:57:51,920 Speaker 2: load's going to take off and snap seal that bullet 1211 00:57:51,920 --> 00:57:52,800 Speaker 2: into the rifling. 1212 00:57:53,440 --> 00:57:56,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, and so the bull I'm shooting is universal fit. 1213 00:57:57,040 --> 00:57:59,800 Speaker 1: Is that basically that little plastic piece on the butt 1214 00:57:59,800 --> 00:58:02,640 Speaker 1: of bullet, is that acting as the wad and ceiling 1215 00:58:03,240 --> 00:58:04,400 Speaker 1: stealing everything up? Yeah? 1216 00:58:04,600 --> 00:58:08,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, similar to what I think it's the the I 1217 00:58:08,840 --> 00:58:11,480 Speaker 2: I really haven't got too much into the design of those, 1218 00:58:12,000 --> 00:58:14,560 Speaker 2: you know that that more like universal fit, so I 1219 00:58:14,880 --> 00:58:19,200 Speaker 2: think it. But it does obviously it It acts as 1220 00:58:19,200 --> 00:58:22,600 Speaker 2: a buffer, right, So it is similar similar to the watt. 1221 00:58:22,600 --> 00:58:25,400 Speaker 2: I would say, maybe it's a little different in that, 1222 00:58:25,480 --> 00:58:28,920 Speaker 2: like those bullets are designed to be super like you're not. 1223 00:58:29,120 --> 00:58:32,600 Speaker 2: You're not getting any friction around the bullet like it 1224 00:58:32,680 --> 00:58:36,000 Speaker 2: are very little, right, the primary amount is at the 1225 00:58:36,040 --> 00:58:39,600 Speaker 2: base there, and it's a it's a much tighter fit 1226 00:58:40,080 --> 00:58:43,520 Speaker 2: than are the wad we're using between the bullet and 1227 00:58:43,560 --> 00:58:46,760 Speaker 2: the primer. But yeah, it's mechanics are essentially the same. 1228 00:58:47,480 --> 00:58:50,360 Speaker 1: Luke, Is there any and maybe you don't know, but 1229 00:58:50,520 --> 00:58:52,320 Speaker 1: is there any truth behind? Like you do a lot 1230 00:58:52,360 --> 00:58:53,880 Speaker 1: of reading and then I actually called the day I 1231 00:58:53,920 --> 00:58:55,920 Speaker 1: was talking to you, I called the the owner of 1232 00:58:55,960 --> 00:58:59,760 Speaker 1: theory and he I want to be careful my words, 1233 00:58:59,760 --> 00:59:01,280 Speaker 1: and so many people get to listen to this, but 1234 00:59:01,800 --> 00:59:04,560 Speaker 1: basically I'm gonna take the cliff notes version is you 1235 00:59:04,600 --> 00:59:06,800 Speaker 1: have to push some of these universal fits a little 1236 00:59:06,800 --> 00:59:08,320 Speaker 1: harder because you get a little bit of a swell 1237 00:59:08,320 --> 00:59:10,240 Speaker 1: out of them, or you kind of get that pressure 1238 00:59:10,240 --> 00:59:13,080 Speaker 1: behind them and that forces the rifling, so the load easy, 1239 00:59:13,120 --> 00:59:14,959 Speaker 1: but on the way out, they're actually going to swell 1240 00:59:15,000 --> 00:59:18,000 Speaker 1: a little bit at the button start to touch. Is that, well, it's. 1241 00:59:17,880 --> 00:59:24,320 Speaker 2: An opteration I'm talking about, so where they generally speaking 1242 00:59:24,800 --> 00:59:29,680 Speaker 2: on a on a universal fit bullet or like our ones, 1243 00:59:29,720 --> 00:59:33,720 Speaker 2: where you're sizing them to the to the barrel, Like 1244 00:59:33,760 --> 00:59:36,960 Speaker 2: the harder you run them, the more accurate they're gonna be. 1245 00:59:37,600 --> 00:59:40,520 Speaker 2: So that that's where it is really important to follow 1246 00:59:40,560 --> 00:59:44,600 Speaker 2: your you know, your manufacturers recommendations for safe loads and stuff, 1247 00:59:44,600 --> 00:59:49,640 Speaker 2: because guys will start shooting and they're like it, you know, 1248 00:59:50,680 --> 00:59:53,960 Speaker 2: just throw out numbers like ninety grains was good, ninety 1249 00:59:53,960 --> 00:59:56,200 Speaker 2: five grains was better, and they're like, you know. 1250 00:59:56,120 --> 00:59:58,760 Speaker 3: It just loves it, so it must be fine. Like no, 1251 00:59:59,160 --> 00:59:59,840 Speaker 3: it will. 1252 01:00:00,160 --> 01:00:05,480 Speaker 2: Generally continue to shoot better the harder harder you run them, 1253 01:00:05,640 --> 01:00:08,360 Speaker 2: just because they do need to get that kick to 1254 01:00:08,600 --> 01:00:11,400 Speaker 2: bump out and swell into the rifleing. 1255 01:00:11,480 --> 01:00:13,880 Speaker 1: Gotcha, and and some of that just just brought up 1256 01:00:13,880 --> 01:00:16,280 Speaker 1: an idea. You know, we always talk when we're reloading 1257 01:00:16,320 --> 01:00:18,240 Speaker 1: or trying to find a perfect load for our big rifles. 1258 01:00:18,280 --> 01:00:20,080 Speaker 1: You know nodes where it's all right, at twenty eight 1259 01:00:20,160 --> 01:00:22,160 Speaker 1: hundred it's got really good, but then we can get 1260 01:00:22,160 --> 01:00:24,080 Speaker 1: a different node at like twenty nine to thirty that 1261 01:00:24,200 --> 01:00:26,280 Speaker 1: sits just as good, but in the middle it sucked. 1262 01:00:27,520 --> 01:00:29,480 Speaker 1: As you're developing these loads, you're trying to figure out 1263 01:00:29,480 --> 01:00:31,640 Speaker 1: what the right you know, because because I could like 1264 01:00:31,680 --> 01:00:34,720 Speaker 1: I just went to I shouldn't even say this, but 1265 01:00:35,000 --> 01:00:37,840 Speaker 1: you know, and I'm not claiming you, but between the 1266 01:00:37,840 --> 01:00:39,480 Speaker 1: owner of Fury and I can't even remember his name, 1267 01:00:39,560 --> 01:00:41,680 Speaker 1: or you and everybody on the internet, they're like, just 1268 01:00:41,760 --> 01:00:44,240 Speaker 1: what the arrowhead breeches go to one oh six by way, like, 1269 01:00:44,640 --> 01:00:46,800 Speaker 1: probably shouldn't have did that, but that's that's how I 1270 01:00:46,840 --> 01:00:48,400 Speaker 1: did it. And then to be safe, you should have 1271 01:00:48,400 --> 01:00:48,880 Speaker 1: maybe went. 1272 01:00:48,800 --> 01:00:52,720 Speaker 2: It well, I mean old Remington before they you know, 1273 01:00:52,720 --> 01:00:55,320 Speaker 2: went bankrupt and all that. That was like if you 1274 01:00:55,400 --> 01:00:58,600 Speaker 2: got someone on the phone that was their recommended max 1275 01:00:58,880 --> 01:01:02,440 Speaker 2: for black Horn two A nine out of Remington Ultimate. 1276 01:01:02,920 --> 01:01:05,640 Speaker 2: I mean, that's that's quite a bit more than than 1277 01:01:05,680 --> 01:01:07,720 Speaker 2: the all you know, the recommended max you're going to 1278 01:01:07,760 --> 01:01:10,160 Speaker 2: see out of some of the you know, the night 1279 01:01:10,440 --> 01:01:12,920 Speaker 2: mussloaders and traditions. Right. So that's where you you know 1280 01:01:12,960 --> 01:01:15,920 Speaker 2: that you just can't take a blanket load with blackhorn 1281 01:01:16,120 --> 01:01:19,280 Speaker 2: and using it in every mussloader. Right. But uh, yeah, 1282 01:01:19,280 --> 01:01:21,520 Speaker 2: that I mean, that's that's been a great, great load 1283 01:01:21,560 --> 01:01:24,480 Speaker 2: with the fear of universal fits out of a out 1284 01:01:24,480 --> 01:01:26,840 Speaker 2: of a Remington Ultimate. But I guess taking a step 1285 01:01:26,880 --> 01:01:31,360 Speaker 2: back and talking about load development in muzzloaders, where we 1286 01:01:31,400 --> 01:01:37,000 Speaker 2: see much more consistency across like all Remington Ultimates, we don't. 1287 01:01:37,120 --> 01:01:40,800 Speaker 2: We don't even do load development in our customs because 1288 01:01:40,800 --> 01:01:44,000 Speaker 2: you're you're getting rid of so many variables with a 1289 01:01:44,040 --> 01:01:47,520 Speaker 2: muzzloader versus a rifle where you know, the bullets fit 1290 01:01:47,640 --> 01:01:51,439 Speaker 2: to the barrel, there's no throat, there's no headspace, there's 1291 01:01:51,480 --> 01:01:56,680 Speaker 2: no you know, neck tension, just all those handles you 1292 01:01:56,720 --> 01:01:59,560 Speaker 2: have to twist on a center fire to get accuracy 1293 01:01:59,600 --> 01:02:05,120 Speaker 2: are gone. So I could see like if if you know, 1294 01:02:05,360 --> 01:02:08,000 Speaker 2: I've I've over the years, I've seen variation and lots 1295 01:02:08,000 --> 01:02:12,200 Speaker 2: of powder, right, Blackcorn is notorious for that. So at times, 1296 01:02:12,560 --> 01:02:15,120 Speaker 2: you know, if if you get a you know, if 1297 01:02:15,160 --> 01:02:17,560 Speaker 2: you're if you're seeing something that doesn't make sense with 1298 01:02:17,640 --> 01:02:19,120 Speaker 2: the load that shoots another guns. 1299 01:02:19,160 --> 01:02:20,919 Speaker 3: It might just be variation in the lot. 1300 01:02:21,000 --> 01:02:23,440 Speaker 2: But we're you know, we're buying eight pound jugs of 1301 01:02:23,480 --> 01:02:25,840 Speaker 2: powder and shooting our guns out of there. So it 1302 01:02:26,600 --> 01:02:29,600 Speaker 2: and there's no like every gun is basically the same. 1303 01:02:29,680 --> 01:02:32,680 Speaker 2: So if if the load doesn't shoot in one gun, 1304 01:02:32,720 --> 01:02:35,680 Speaker 2: it's it's not the load, like it's we built, we 1305 01:02:35,760 --> 01:02:38,880 Speaker 2: did something wrong with the gun. There's there's just no 1306 01:02:39,080 --> 01:02:42,120 Speaker 2: value in doing ladders and stuff like that. And you know, 1307 01:02:42,840 --> 01:02:47,800 Speaker 2: especially a custom as a loader. So what I guess 1308 01:02:48,040 --> 01:02:51,880 Speaker 2: so and generally like if if you do see like 1309 01:02:51,960 --> 01:02:54,680 Speaker 2: a load like a fear a universal fit that shoots 1310 01:02:54,720 --> 01:02:57,920 Speaker 2: really good in the Remics and Ultimate, you know in 1311 01:02:58,000 --> 01:03:01,160 Speaker 2: most Remington Ultimates and you get one doesn't shoot good, 1312 01:03:01,760 --> 01:03:03,800 Speaker 2: you may have run into a situation where it's not 1313 01:03:04,040 --> 01:03:06,480 Speaker 2: Tweaking the powder isn't going to solve anything. You just 1314 01:03:06,560 --> 01:03:11,760 Speaker 2: have a I see, the biggest issue is bore diameter variation, 1315 01:03:12,320 --> 01:03:15,000 Speaker 2: where a looser fit or a tighter fit is gonna 1316 01:03:15,040 --> 01:03:17,480 Speaker 2: skew things. So really you know, you may you may 1317 01:03:17,520 --> 01:03:19,200 Speaker 2: be able to put a band aid on it by 1318 01:03:19,200 --> 01:03:22,840 Speaker 2: tweaking the powder up or down, but really tweaking the 1319 01:03:22,960 --> 01:03:26,200 Speaker 2: diameter of the projectile you fit to get a better 1320 01:03:26,520 --> 01:03:30,320 Speaker 2: a better fit in the barrel is really the easy solution. 1321 01:03:31,080 --> 01:03:34,520 Speaker 1: You gotcha. So back to the load development. Let's just say, 1322 01:03:36,000 --> 01:03:38,440 Speaker 1: you know, I buy a bullet, I buy some powder 1323 01:03:39,800 --> 01:03:42,360 Speaker 1: you just mentioned, like they continue to probably shoot better 1324 01:03:42,600 --> 01:03:45,640 Speaker 1: until you start to probably approach some pressure issues like 1325 01:03:45,680 --> 01:03:48,680 Speaker 1: how how should a guy or a gal that's developing 1326 01:03:48,760 --> 01:03:51,680 Speaker 1: a load, like what is that balance? Like should it 1327 01:03:51,720 --> 01:03:55,520 Speaker 1: be recommended? You know, manufacturers recommendation max like don't get close, 1328 01:03:55,680 --> 01:03:58,720 Speaker 1: you know, don't exceed that. I mean, that's obviously the 1329 01:03:58,800 --> 01:04:01,840 Speaker 1: legal advice you're gonna give. Like how like like I'm 1330 01:04:01,840 --> 01:04:03,920 Speaker 1: at one six by weight? Should I have tried one 1331 01:04:03,920 --> 01:04:06,360 Speaker 1: of weight by weight? Because you know fur he says 1332 01:04:06,360 --> 01:04:08,480 Speaker 1: it's okay. You know your breech is okay with it. 1333 01:04:08,560 --> 01:04:12,280 Speaker 1: Remington's guns okay with it? Like is there? Should I 1334 01:04:12,320 --> 01:04:14,120 Speaker 1: have tried it and see if it shoots better or 1335 01:04:14,120 --> 01:04:16,040 Speaker 1: that much more speed? Or like how does how does 1336 01:04:16,040 --> 01:04:17,560 Speaker 1: a guy determine like I need to stop? 1337 01:04:19,360 --> 01:04:22,040 Speaker 2: It's I mean, obviously it's a legal answer, but it's 1338 01:04:22,120 --> 01:04:25,320 Speaker 2: also just the I mean, really the common sense answer, 1339 01:04:25,400 --> 01:04:29,080 Speaker 2: safe answer, just because there there really aren't the same 1340 01:04:29,120 --> 01:04:35,080 Speaker 2: handles on the muzzloader to identify pressure. You know, I 1341 01:04:35,080 --> 01:04:38,200 Speaker 2: think everyone operated under the you know, the old I 1342 01:04:38,240 --> 01:04:40,040 Speaker 2: think growing up you probably heard that too, Like you 1343 01:04:40,120 --> 01:04:43,280 Speaker 2: can't overload a muzzloader, right, It's just gonna blow the 1344 01:04:43,520 --> 01:04:45,840 Speaker 2: unber powder out the end of the barrel. And that's 1345 01:04:46,120 --> 01:04:49,080 Speaker 2: that's definitely not the case with with blackhorn to a 1346 01:04:49,160 --> 01:04:53,760 Speaker 2: nine and obviously smokeless powder especially, but you you definitely 1347 01:04:53,840 --> 01:04:59,479 Speaker 2: can over pressure with blackhorn. So yeah, foul follow follow 1348 01:04:59,520 --> 01:05:03,000 Speaker 2: the manufact recommendations. I don't really see a ton of 1349 01:05:03,080 --> 01:05:06,520 Speaker 2: value in doing like a load where like starting low 1350 01:05:06,600 --> 01:05:10,120 Speaker 2: in the range and working up just because you're not 1351 01:05:10,160 --> 01:05:13,040 Speaker 2: gonna there's no pressure signs to see. There's not like 1352 01:05:13,080 --> 01:05:15,800 Speaker 2: a tight bore like you could run into at the center, 1353 01:05:15,880 --> 01:05:20,520 Speaker 2: fires or brass case capacity all that stuff. So I 1354 01:05:20,560 --> 01:05:24,800 Speaker 2: think you're generally fine going to the max or whatever 1355 01:05:24,880 --> 01:05:26,720 Speaker 2: your manufacturer recommends. 1356 01:05:27,360 --> 01:05:30,080 Speaker 1: Got And there's so there's you know, like like on 1357 01:05:30,120 --> 01:05:32,120 Speaker 1: the high power rifles, you know, we get ejector marks, 1358 01:05:32,160 --> 01:05:34,760 Speaker 1: we get primers bumping out, we get some signs like 1359 01:05:34,800 --> 01:05:37,560 Speaker 1: on a muzzloader. There's nothing on your guys modules, nothing 1360 01:05:37,560 --> 01:05:40,000 Speaker 1: on the old original Rimington modules, nothing on like a 1361 01:05:40,640 --> 01:05:42,880 Speaker 1: shot done, you know, a two to nine disc. Like 1362 01:05:43,040 --> 01:05:45,680 Speaker 1: you're pretty much just stuck with just having to run 1363 01:05:45,720 --> 01:05:48,760 Speaker 1: manufacturer recommendations because you're not going to see any signs leading. 1364 01:05:48,600 --> 01:05:52,360 Speaker 2: Right, Like our modules kind of look like a case 1365 01:05:52,360 --> 01:05:56,600 Speaker 2: head where you can't actually you know, create pressure signs 1366 01:05:56,640 --> 01:05:57,040 Speaker 2: on them. 1367 01:05:57,080 --> 01:05:58,280 Speaker 3: But generally that's. 1368 01:05:58,160 --> 01:06:03,880 Speaker 2: Like way past asked where where the actually is because 1369 01:06:03,920 --> 01:06:06,840 Speaker 2: the breach plug hides some of the some of the pressure. 1370 01:06:07,760 --> 01:06:11,880 Speaker 2: That's it's not truly a rifle case type system. So yeah, 1371 01:06:11,880 --> 01:06:16,080 Speaker 2: there's there's just not good handles to read pressure, gotcha. 1372 01:06:16,480 --> 01:06:19,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. And then kind of my I guess my 1373 01:06:19,920 --> 01:06:23,400 Speaker 1: last question. You know, bolt selection. We we we were 1374 01:06:23,440 --> 01:06:25,920 Speaker 1: limited by laws a little bit, you know lead up here, 1375 01:06:26,400 --> 01:06:31,560 Speaker 1: you know, jacketed for what we're doing, you know relatively 1376 01:06:31,640 --> 01:06:33,560 Speaker 1: what I would call you know, in your world short 1377 01:06:33,640 --> 01:06:36,360 Speaker 1: range muzzle loading, you know, two hundred yards and the like. 1378 01:06:36,640 --> 01:06:40,240 Speaker 1: Is there any inherent like issue with running suppose or 1379 01:06:40,360 --> 01:06:46,320 Speaker 1: versus power belts versus the borlocks versus like a barrel 1380 01:06:46,360 --> 01:06:49,640 Speaker 1: fit type bullet, Like at some point like or or 1381 01:06:49,720 --> 01:06:51,920 Speaker 1: do you believe, like suppose they're still not as accurate 1382 01:06:51,960 --> 01:06:53,480 Speaker 1: as is some of these others. 1383 01:06:54,000 --> 01:06:58,600 Speaker 2: You know, talking about when I converted that savage send 1384 01:06:58,680 --> 01:07:00,720 Speaker 2: mL two to forty five cal. Back in the day 1385 01:07:00,760 --> 01:07:05,040 Speaker 2: I was, I was running a sabo, a two hundred 1386 01:07:05,040 --> 01:07:09,800 Speaker 2: gree sst uh from hornety in a sabo, and I 1387 01:07:09,880 --> 01:07:13,720 Speaker 2: shot some ridiculously small groups. You you run into two 1388 01:07:14,640 --> 01:07:17,920 Speaker 2: issues you have to be aware of, Like, barrel heat 1389 01:07:18,440 --> 01:07:21,000 Speaker 2: is a big factor. You know, a lot of guys 1390 01:07:21,040 --> 01:07:23,600 Speaker 2: are doing their their look you know, they're testing and 1391 01:07:23,640 --> 01:07:27,160 Speaker 2: stuff in August when it's one hundred degrees and uh, 1392 01:07:27,360 --> 01:07:29,760 Speaker 2: you know, as the perform the pressure, the performance of 1393 01:07:29,800 --> 01:07:32,600 Speaker 2: the muzzler goes up. But even uh, you know, more 1394 01:07:32,600 --> 01:07:36,480 Speaker 2: conventional muzzleaders are slug guns. I think looking back when 1395 01:07:36,520 --> 01:07:39,560 Speaker 2: I was in high school trying to get a two 1396 01:07:39,640 --> 01:07:42,040 Speaker 2: hundred yard slug gun and doing a lot of my 1397 01:07:42,080 --> 01:07:45,240 Speaker 2: shooting in July and August, I think I would I 1398 01:07:45,280 --> 01:07:47,360 Speaker 2: can recall lots of times where i'd have to you know, 1399 01:07:47,400 --> 01:07:50,160 Speaker 2: the first two shots print really close together, and then 1400 01:07:50,240 --> 01:07:53,600 Speaker 2: the the third shot would be six inches off. And 1401 01:07:53,960 --> 01:07:57,280 Speaker 2: I believe that was probably barrel heat disrupting the the 1402 01:07:57,280 --> 01:08:02,240 Speaker 2: integrity of the SABO, but as long as long as 1403 01:08:02,280 --> 01:08:04,680 Speaker 2: we actually I just talked to a customer yesterday that 1404 01:08:04,800 --> 01:08:10,680 Speaker 2: was having ignition issues Remington's seven hundred mL they're they're 1405 01:08:10,720 --> 01:08:14,000 Speaker 2: old muzzleload or using one of our shot and primer systems, 1406 01:08:14,040 --> 01:08:18,200 Speaker 2: and he was using a Harvester Black crush rib, which 1407 01:08:18,240 --> 01:08:19,960 Speaker 2: is a it was a great SABO, but he was 1408 01:08:20,080 --> 01:08:24,479 Speaker 2: using the Barnes U T Easy bullet, which that bullet 1409 01:08:25,800 --> 01:08:28,920 Speaker 2: I can anyway, I'll make it a short story. It 1410 01:08:28,960 --> 01:08:32,360 Speaker 2: was an undersized bullet in a in a SABO that's 1411 01:08:32,439 --> 01:08:35,400 Speaker 2: designed to load easy. So I think my guess is 1412 01:08:35,439 --> 01:08:37,560 Speaker 2: it was probably taking them about one finger on the 1413 01:08:37,640 --> 01:08:42,160 Speaker 2: ramrod to seat the bullet. And he had ignition issues. 1414 01:08:42,200 --> 01:08:44,320 Speaker 2: But I was explaining to him like, even if you 1415 01:08:44,800 --> 01:08:46,879 Speaker 2: were to get it to go bang like, your accuracy 1416 01:08:46,920 --> 01:08:49,960 Speaker 2: would probably suck because your your fit was so loose. 1417 01:08:50,040 --> 01:08:54,560 Speaker 2: So that's where it. You can definitely obtain great accuracy 1418 01:08:54,600 --> 01:08:56,800 Speaker 2: with sabos. You just have to pay attention and you 1419 01:08:56,880 --> 01:09:00,360 Speaker 2: might have to, you know, experiment a little that to 1420 01:09:00,400 --> 01:09:03,280 Speaker 2: find the right save on bullet combo that fits fits 1421 01:09:03,320 --> 01:09:03,760 Speaker 2: your bore. 1422 01:09:04,560 --> 01:09:08,519 Speaker 1: Well, gotcha, Well, I think we went through all the 1423 01:09:08,520 --> 01:09:10,120 Speaker 1: listener Q and as we made it and made it 1424 01:09:10,120 --> 01:09:12,040 Speaker 1: about an hour. Is there anything else like we didn't 1425 01:09:12,080 --> 01:09:15,160 Speaker 1: cover that's important? You know? We you know, triggers are triggers. 1426 01:09:15,200 --> 01:09:19,040 Speaker 1: We've talked about ignition systems, like you say, when I've 1427 01:09:19,200 --> 01:09:21,520 Speaker 1: I've been amazed just because I've been away from muzzloaders 1428 01:09:21,560 --> 01:09:24,800 Speaker 1: for so long, and you hinted to it that we're 1429 01:09:24,840 --> 01:09:26,920 Speaker 1: getting to the point where some of these muscloaters can 1430 01:09:27,040 --> 01:09:28,800 Speaker 1: be as accurate and more accurate than some of these 1431 01:09:28,880 --> 01:09:31,840 Speaker 1: high powered rifles just because you are taking away you know, 1432 01:09:33,000 --> 01:09:35,479 Speaker 1: you know, case issues, you know, all these other issues 1433 01:09:35,520 --> 01:09:36,960 Speaker 1: that are kind of taken care of. It's like it's 1434 01:09:37,000 --> 01:09:39,599 Speaker 1: like the diesel versus the gasoline motor. Right, we took 1435 01:09:39,600 --> 01:09:41,320 Speaker 1: a lot of this stuff apart, and it's easier to 1436 01:09:41,800 --> 01:09:44,080 Speaker 1: work on, easier to diagnose, and maybe easier to get 1437 01:09:44,080 --> 01:09:47,840 Speaker 1: to run at times. Is there you know what's next 1438 01:09:47,880 --> 01:09:49,800 Speaker 1: for muzzloaders? Are we? Are we? There? Is there anything 1439 01:09:49,800 --> 01:09:51,640 Speaker 1: else you want to talk talk about the matters that 1440 01:09:51,680 --> 01:09:53,920 Speaker 1: we didn't cover here? Yeah? 1441 01:09:54,080 --> 01:09:58,200 Speaker 2: No, I mean, I you know, I guess just you 1442 01:09:58,200 --> 01:10:02,240 Speaker 2: know the one uh not even related to performance, but 1443 01:10:02,240 --> 01:10:03,760 Speaker 2: I always like to throw it out there is you 1444 01:10:03,760 --> 01:10:07,120 Speaker 2: know make sure you're using the witness mark on your ramrod. 1445 01:10:07,840 --> 01:10:10,240 Speaker 2: You know, that's number one. I think safety issue with 1446 01:10:10,320 --> 01:10:14,200 Speaker 2: muzzleloaders is guys double loading and a witness mark, which 1447 01:10:14,240 --> 01:10:15,800 Speaker 2: if you don't know what that is, that's you know, 1448 01:10:15,960 --> 01:10:18,120 Speaker 2: just a mark on your rod that's flush with the 1449 01:10:18,200 --> 01:10:22,559 Speaker 2: muzzle when it's loaded, so you can identify a double load. 1450 01:10:22,560 --> 01:10:24,960 Speaker 2: And every you know, everyone thinks I'll never do that, 1451 01:10:25,040 --> 01:10:27,240 Speaker 2: but it's you know, you get on all the pilot 1452 01:10:27,320 --> 01:10:30,840 Speaker 2: talking to a buddy or whatever. Definitely, uh, you know, 1453 01:10:30,920 --> 01:10:35,120 Speaker 2: something to watch out for. But yeah, I mean as 1454 01:10:35,120 --> 01:10:37,519 Speaker 2: far as we're muzzleloaters go next, I mean I think 1455 01:10:37,600 --> 01:10:42,120 Speaker 2: higher BC bullets that are are less sensitive the bore diameter. Uh, 1456 01:10:42,280 --> 01:10:45,280 Speaker 2: you know, is a big opportunity if someone can come 1457 01:10:45,360 --> 01:10:47,320 Speaker 2: up with that. But it's you know, there's there's just 1458 01:10:47,360 --> 01:10:51,599 Speaker 2: a whole you know, host of issues where overcoming that 1459 01:10:51,720 --> 01:10:54,320 Speaker 2: and still being able to handle higher pressures and stuff. 1460 01:10:55,240 --> 01:10:58,559 Speaker 2: So I mean, that's probably the biggest deficiency I see 1461 01:10:58,640 --> 01:11:02,560 Speaker 2: right now, if you know, if even call it a deficiency, 1462 01:11:02,760 --> 01:11:07,639 Speaker 2: biggest opportunity for making making them easier to shoot at distance. 1463 01:11:08,280 --> 01:11:11,120 Speaker 2: But you know, it's it's kind I mean, like we 1464 01:11:11,240 --> 01:11:14,160 Speaker 2: talked about it's crazy over the last decade, how you 1465 01:11:14,200 --> 01:11:18,320 Speaker 2: know how fast the advancements have happened and where we're 1466 01:11:18,320 --> 01:11:22,080 Speaker 2: at now, you know, if we miss any questions, I like, 1467 01:11:22,200 --> 01:11:25,200 Speaker 2: you know, I like to do Sunday Q and as 1468 01:11:25,240 --> 01:11:28,120 Speaker 2: once in a while on Instagram, so I'm pretty accessible 1469 01:11:28,120 --> 01:11:29,960 Speaker 2: that way if somebody wants to hop on there and 1470 01:11:30,000 --> 01:11:32,080 Speaker 2: watch out for that. 1471 01:11:32,160 --> 01:11:33,559 Speaker 1: Yeah, how else can they get ahold of you? Luke? 1472 01:11:33,600 --> 01:11:35,360 Speaker 1: You we usually close up, but how do they get 1473 01:11:35,360 --> 01:11:35,800 Speaker 1: a hold of you? 1474 01:11:35,840 --> 01:11:38,800 Speaker 2: And yeah, we're yeah, we're on Instagram, Facebook, all that, 1475 01:11:39,160 --> 01:11:43,799 Speaker 2: Arrowhead Rifles dot Com. Uh yeah, that's uh yeah, we're 1476 01:11:43,840 --> 01:11:45,160 Speaker 2: on most of the inter webs. 1477 01:11:45,400 --> 01:11:48,639 Speaker 1: So you did bring I'm gonna I'm gonna ask another question, 1478 01:11:48,680 --> 01:11:51,000 Speaker 1: even though we're past the part of clinic closing this up, 1479 01:11:51,000 --> 01:11:53,360 Speaker 1: because you brought up the witness mark and you know, 1480 01:11:53,400 --> 01:11:55,400 Speaker 1: growing up pirate ex pellets. You know your dad, my 1481 01:11:55,479 --> 01:11:58,080 Speaker 1: dad was don't crush the pellets, you know. Yeah, So 1482 01:11:58,120 --> 01:12:01,040 Speaker 1: there's this balance of you know, too tight versus do 1483 01:12:01,080 --> 01:12:03,599 Speaker 1: you keep smashing it? Do you you know black horn 1484 01:12:03,640 --> 01:12:05,479 Speaker 1: two and nine, you've got loose powder that should kind 1485 01:12:05,479 --> 01:12:07,400 Speaker 1: of self level as long as your gun, you know, 1486 01:12:07,520 --> 01:12:09,439 Speaker 1: is up, Like, is there a right or wrong answer, 1487 01:12:09,600 --> 01:12:12,000 Speaker 1: Like should you is it kind of a should be 1488 01:12:12,000 --> 01:12:13,880 Speaker 1: smashing the tip of the bowlt in there? You know 1489 01:12:14,000 --> 01:12:15,640 Speaker 1: what's the right or should it just be like you 1490 01:12:15,640 --> 01:12:18,400 Speaker 1: said that ten pounds down when it tightens out? 1491 01:12:18,840 --> 01:12:22,720 Speaker 2: Issue for a consistency. I mean there are guys that 1492 01:12:22,760 --> 01:12:26,240 Speaker 2: have done studies, you know, experimenting, and you can't influence 1493 01:12:26,280 --> 01:12:29,360 Speaker 2: your velocity and stuff by how hard hard you seat 1494 01:12:29,400 --> 01:12:33,160 Speaker 2: the bullet. So I I think there's there's almost like 1495 01:12:33,200 --> 01:12:35,960 Speaker 2: a Torter crunch gauge out there. There's one guy that 1496 01:12:36,080 --> 01:12:38,479 Speaker 2: sells where they'll you know, pop when you hit a 1497 01:12:38,520 --> 01:12:42,320 Speaker 2: certain pressure at the bottom. But I just go for it, 1498 01:12:42,520 --> 01:12:46,519 Speaker 2: you know, consistent push at the end, trying to keep 1499 01:12:46,520 --> 01:12:47,960 Speaker 2: that consistent. 1500 01:12:47,920 --> 01:12:50,519 Speaker 1: Go to you, You're probably gonna be like just shake 1501 01:12:50,560 --> 01:12:52,759 Speaker 1: your head. Mine's like you just kind of don't grab 1502 01:12:52,800 --> 01:12:54,799 Speaker 1: the robbit. You just kind of like three little taps 1503 01:12:54,800 --> 01:12:57,040 Speaker 1: but not very hard, just with like you know, one 1504 01:12:57,080 --> 01:12:59,120 Speaker 1: finger on each side like a pencil and like three 1505 01:12:59,160 --> 01:13:00,640 Speaker 1: taps and like I should. 1506 01:13:00,160 --> 01:13:05,040 Speaker 2: Be good little uh, I'll make that joke. 1507 01:13:07,000 --> 01:13:09,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, You're like there's three and then you're kind of 1508 01:13:09,080 --> 01:13:11,080 Speaker 1: looking at your witness mark and you're like, I think 1509 01:13:11,120 --> 01:13:13,280 Speaker 1: it's you're like, put your head down. I think it's 1510 01:13:13,280 --> 01:13:14,760 Speaker 1: in the same spot as last time. 1511 01:13:14,840 --> 01:13:16,800 Speaker 2: And yeah, I mean that's so that's the thing with 1512 01:13:16,880 --> 01:13:20,679 Speaker 2: Blackhorn is following metrically, it's super inconsistent, right, so you're 1513 01:13:20,880 --> 01:13:21,720 Speaker 2: you're witness mark. 1514 01:13:21,880 --> 01:13:24,400 Speaker 3: I mean, it's it's close, it's. 1515 01:13:24,520 --> 01:13:27,040 Speaker 2: It's kind of move slightly and that's that's where Yeah, 1516 01:13:27,120 --> 01:13:30,559 Speaker 2: definitely Blackhorn is is better doing it by way. 1517 01:13:31,040 --> 01:13:35,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, gotcha. No, I really appreciate having you on, Luke. 1518 01:13:36,280 --> 01:13:38,960 Speaker 1: Like I say, this is I feel like I know rifles. 1519 01:13:38,960 --> 01:13:40,760 Speaker 1: I don't know rifles like any of you builders or 1520 01:13:40,760 --> 01:13:42,240 Speaker 1: anything like that. I feel like I know them, but 1521 01:13:42,280 --> 01:13:44,160 Speaker 1: like muszloaders are still kind of a mystery to me 1522 01:13:44,200 --> 01:13:47,000 Speaker 1: because I'm just kind of getting back into taking advantage 1523 01:13:47,000 --> 01:13:48,920 Speaker 1: of some of our seasons. So I really appreciate you 1524 01:13:49,000 --> 01:13:52,240 Speaker 1: having you're having you on, you know, sharing your knowledge 1525 01:13:52,360 --> 01:13:53,960 Speaker 1: and you know how people can get ahold of you. 1526 01:13:54,040 --> 01:13:56,760 Speaker 1: And yeah, good luck with any other hunts you have 1527 01:13:57,160 --> 01:13:59,599 Speaker 1: this year, and uh with the business, and and really 1528 01:13:59,640 --> 01:14:00,880 Speaker 1: appreciate you're joining us here. 1529 01:14:01,040 --> 01:14:03,920 Speaker 3: Appreciate it. Yeah, it's alright, on fun catching up, all right, 1530 01:14:04,000 --> 01:14:04,599 Speaker 3: take care of luc