Speaker 1: I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset.
Speaker 2: When I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset.
Speaker 3: And when I find my ball in a fried egg
Speaker 3: Friday egg, the dreaded Frida Egg Friday Frida Egg Egg,
Speaker 3: Frida Egg Bride Egg.
Speaker 2: Lie, I'm about ready to run off of the hump.
Speaker 1: Welcome back to another edition of the Friday Golf Podcast.
Speaker 1: I am your host, Andy Johnson. Today I have an
Speaker 1: episode that is dedicated to the fall season of the
Speaker 1: PGA Tour. So with that in mind, I am joined
Speaker 1: by two of the people that I know that follow
Speaker 1: PGA Tour golf most closely. Sean Martin of the PGA
Speaker 1: Tour he is the lead editorial at the PGA Tour
Speaker 1: PGA tour dot com. And Joseph Lamania are a very
Speaker 1: own Friday Golf. Joseph Lamania I had us each prepare
Speaker 1: five things about the fall that stood out. A lot
Speaker 1: of them overlapped. We ended up hitting on all of them,
Speaker 1: a few of a few shared things obviously big storylines
Speaker 1: that came out of the fall. But excited to have
Speaker 1: you guys listen to this conversation. I thought it was
Speaker 1: super fun, free flowing, and yeah, a lot of it
Speaker 1: is about youth and the different tiers of the PGA tour.
Speaker 1: So without that, let's get to our conversation. But before
Speaker 1: we get there, let's talk about Stripe. Stripe is a
Speaker 1: big part of our business. Integral to this time of year,
Speaker 1: especially with Black Friday, you want to buy things online.
Speaker 1: Stripe is a great partner to do so. Stripe helps
Speaker 1: businesses as small as ours. They've been a partner of
Speaker 1: ours since really the founding, about two years after I
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Speaker 1: accepting online payment, and Stripe was there helped us out
Speaker 1: when it was just me small business. It also helps
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Speaker 1: big businesses. So Stripe has advanced billing products. They have
Speaker 1: the standard checkout products. One of the big things with
Speaker 1: their checkout suite. One of the reasons people don't end
Speaker 1: up checking out of your store is because you might
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Speaker 1: and that's one of the things I like the most
Speaker 1: about it. It makes it really easy for somebody to
Speaker 1: pay for one of our memberships, for example. So on
Speaker 1: the billing side, they can handle really complex situations like
Speaker 1: usage based billing, monthly subscriptions, all that jazz. So if
Speaker 1: you want to learn more about Stripe, go to stripe
Speaker 1: dot com. All right, let's get to our conversation with
Speaker 1: Sean and Joseph Smartin. Uh. Sean Martin, PGA Tour Officionado
Speaker 1: of Golf, really just the the living golf encyclopedia. Uh,
Speaker 1: We're honored to have you join us. Joseph Leamanya, who
Speaker 1: you often hear on here, is here. Also, we're gonna
Speaker 1: do just a little takeaways from the fall season. You know,
Speaker 1: fall is over, We're onto the silly season. Can we
Speaker 1: call it the silly season?
Speaker 4: Father son?
Speaker 1: Herew for a while.
Speaker 2: And actually the PNC is secondly a PGA Tour champions Events.
Speaker 2: That's pj's yard.
Speaker 1: PJ can't talk on this pod. He's just a producer,
Speaker 1: too bad.
Speaker 2: I can see him. He's very excited.
Speaker 1: He is excited.
Speaker 2: There's been a lot I've been a part of a
Speaker 2: lot of PJ related conversations lately.
Speaker 1: Because he's revolutionized champions to are coverage.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what can we expect what's this vibe going to
Speaker 2: be in Tucson? Should we be worried? Do you think?
Speaker 1: What do you think of his coverage? What was it?
Speaker 1: Were there any highlights from it?
Speaker 2: You know, I definitely saw the buzzball coverage, the Cola
Speaker 2: Guard coverage, But I appreciate just the sobriety with which
Speaker 2: he mostly covered the Champions Tour, just the weight he
Speaker 2: gives to it.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, he's a true professional. He's a journalism
Speaker 1: journalism major from a you know, esteemed college. He brings
Speaker 1: professionalism to this organization.
Speaker 2: And look, if you're fresh out of you know, Syracuse
Speaker 2: journalism school, you got to put him in front of
Speaker 2: you know, world Golf Hall of famers.
Speaker 1: Uh, all right, let's get into this. There's enough enough
Speaker 1: about Champions Tour. I feel like this is more a
Speaker 1: conversation for the show gonna start than this podcast. We're
Speaker 1: going to talk about the fall. I had everybody prepare
Speaker 1: five fall takeaways, and we're going to talk just about
Speaker 1: this season. I'll jump off, I'll start this conversation. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna ask I pose a question. Is the fall almost
Speaker 1: golf cick go heaven like with like with a couple tweaks,
Speaker 1: maybe some better venues, some better coverage times. Is this
Speaker 1: like the perfect perfect golf viewing if there was a
Speaker 1: little bit more strict relegation, could it? Could it get
Speaker 1: to the point where, for like people that are so
Speaker 1: in the golf bucket that this is the quintessential viewing
Speaker 1: period where you don't care as much about the big
Speaker 1: names and it's just like pure relegation and players duking
Speaker 1: it out out on good golf courses like with like,
Speaker 1: with a few more elite venues and a few better
Speaker 1: coverage times in stricter relegation, are we like almost to
Speaker 1: the most compelling part of the PGA Tour calendar.
Speaker 2: I thought Dj Paihowski summed it up perfectly in his tweet.
Speaker 2: It was something like, you know, Amttic McNeely, Luke Clanton
Speaker 2: duel is pretty good golf watching for November twenty fourth.
Speaker 2: I think, you know, guy chasing his first win, You
Speaker 2: had guys trying to keep their card. Luke Clanton obviously
Speaker 2: seems like an ascendant star. I think it is a
Speaker 2: confluence of all those different stories, and I definitely think so.
Speaker 2: I mean, I think the fall is made for the sickos,
Speaker 2: definitely You're not going there for star power right in
Speaker 2: the top fifty mostly or taking all those events off.
Speaker 2: You're going there for really granular storylines that truly the
Speaker 2: Sikos appreciate.
Speaker 3: I think similarly, Sean, the way the PGA Tours changed
Speaker 3: their model with signature events and non signature events. You
Speaker 3: just don't see as frequently the lesser known player competing
Speaker 3: against a player that's already kind of made. And you're
Speaker 3: getting a little bit more of that in the fall.
Speaker 3: You don't have some of the top superstars, right, it's
Speaker 3: not Scottie Scheffler versus Luke Clanton. But yeah, to your point,
Speaker 3: I mean Ludviig was playing this past weekend. You could
Speaker 3: have had Ludwig versus Luke Clanton. Yeah, Andy, I think
Speaker 3: it is kind of a I don't know about heaven,
Speaker 3: but getting close to heaven for golf siccos it's a
Speaker 3: pretty compelling product.
Speaker 4: But yeah, not for the casual golf fan.
Speaker 1: That's that's the thing. I don't think it's all the
Speaker 1: way there. But yesterday I'm watching I'm watching Caleb Williams
Speaker 1: dice up the vikings on one screen, and I was
Speaker 1: almost more engrossed in the golf that was happening. You know,
Speaker 1: you had four guys coming down the stretch. Yesterday's was
Speaker 1: kind of telling with you know, you had you had
Speaker 1: two guys that have had really great years, you know,
Speaker 1: huge improvement years in Nico Etravaria and Mav McNeely. And
Speaker 1: then I think like Clanton Clan was like the story
Speaker 1: of the summer that didn't get off the ground, didn't
Speaker 1: get nearly the shine because of Nick Dunlap and also
Speaker 1: because of Scott what Scottie Scheffler and Saner Schoffley did
Speaker 1: last year. I think that like that would have been
Speaker 1: almost every other year would have been like story one,
Speaker 1: B or C of the summer, But because of everything
Speaker 1: that happened last year kind of got pushed down and
Speaker 1: the fall was a little bit of a reminder this
Speaker 1: especially this last event. He didn't play much all the
Speaker 1: fall until this last event, but this last event was
Speaker 1: a reminder, Oh yeah, we forgot about how good this
Speaker 1: guy's summer was, and here he is. So what's your
Speaker 1: first thing, Sean?
Speaker 2: And I think my big one is Luke Clayton.
Speaker 1: This is one of mine too. I figured we'd have
Speaker 1: a lot of overlap here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I prepared five, It could be three,
Speaker 2: could be seven things. We'll see how it shakes out,
Speaker 2: but I think Luke Clayton's number one. Obviously, I'd watched
Speaker 2: his results from AFAR on Friday. I took the time
Speaker 2: to take my son out to watch Luke Clant and
Speaker 2: Ludwig Obert and Matt McCarty thought that was a great
Speaker 2: feature group to have and came away just totally impressed
Speaker 2: with Luke Clinton. I think I've tweeted a couple of
Speaker 2: times like where he'd rank in all the different status
Speaker 2: rankings if he had enough rounds to qualify. You have
Speaker 2: to have fifty rounds. He's at thirty now, but I
Speaker 2: mean it's pretty astounding. He'd be second schros gained off
Speaker 2: the tee, third in shros gained approach, eleventh in driving
Speaker 2: distance and fifth in driving accuracy, and first in greens
Speaker 2: and regulation. And I kind of compared it to like Morikawa,
Speaker 2: but longer of like this guy comes out in the summer,
Speaker 2: some of the courses are softer, it's so hot out
Speaker 2: and so humid, and just flag shots and racks up
Speaker 2: gaudy approach numbers, and that's what Luke's been doing and
Speaker 2: The variety of shots too, was really interesting. He talked
Speaker 2: about how on his first whole Friday, he hits like
Speaker 2: this nine iron and it's like five feet off the ground.
Speaker 2: I mean not literally, I think I looked at the numbers.
Speaker 2: I think it was closer to like sixty, but still
Speaker 2: it was this low flight in nine on rom from
Speaker 2: I think like one hundred yards and Ludwig turned round
Speaker 2: and was like, that's sick. And he has the this
Speaker 2: awesome stinger driver that I tweeted about after watching him too,
Speaker 2: that he hits quite a lot. He actually plays a
Speaker 2: driver with a little more spin than you would expect
Speaker 2: so that he can hit that stinger and keep it
Speaker 2: from falling out of the air. But it allowed him
Speaker 2: to hit this like low ground cut access the right
Speaker 2: side of the fairway on this kind of split fairway
Speaker 2: par five that guys never are able to really go
Speaker 2: after because it's there's ob on the right. And I
Speaker 2: just think he has shots. He's a shot maker, which
Speaker 2: is really impressive for a guy his age. I think too.
Speaker 2: There were a couple of spots where Ludwig really pushed
Speaker 2: it with the driver. Luke laid Back hit wedges really
Speaker 2: close and made birdies and I think, just yeah, that
Speaker 2: shot making was really impressive and the stats seem to
Speaker 2: back it up. Even if you know, maybe they were
Speaker 2: on some easier golf courses, I still think the ball
Speaker 2: striking is really really impressive.
Speaker 1: Can I give you a different comp for a player
Speaker 1: out of the gates that he reminds me of? And
Speaker 1: I think the finishes stack up just like stats wise
Speaker 1: and finishes John.
Speaker 2: Rohm, Yeah, I mean rom came out right away. He
Speaker 2: was fished second person. Man.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it finished third at the quickened loans. I think
Speaker 1: like one of the things is like if you looked
Speaker 1: at his stats in that short period of time, they
Speaker 1: popped similarly off the tee and approached the green like
Speaker 1: where he it was like, oh my god, Like this
Speaker 1: guy might be the best te de green player on
Speaker 1: tour right now, you know.
Speaker 2: I mean TBC deer Run is known for his wide fairways,
Speaker 2: but I mean he's driving it at least statistically as
Speaker 2: far as Wyndam Clark and as straight as Chez Revie.
Speaker 3: You guys are gonna make fun of me. I mean
Speaker 3: another player that never he reminds me of a lot
Speaker 3: andy is Cam Young and the way that Cam Young
Speaker 3: came out through that hold on, hold on, hold on.
Speaker 1: Come on, we couldnt compare anybody to Cam Young.
Speaker 3: Whoa whoa, whoa, whoa who Let let me explain. Cam
Speaker 3: Young when he came out in the fall, was shredding
Speaker 3: off of the tea and it was hitting approach, not
Speaker 3: as well as Clinton, but he was a good ball
Speaker 3: striker and we saw that train so far in his
Speaker 3: career two major championships. What's clearly held him back is
Speaker 3: the short game in putting, which Luke Clanton is much
Speaker 3: better than. So I'm not saying he's charting to be
Speaker 3: like Cam Young, he's charting to be better than Cam Young,
Speaker 3: but it's similar in that some of these weak fields
Speaker 3: through the fall, Cam Young did something similar off the tee.
Speaker 3: Has the speed and accuracy combination that translates to major
Speaker 3: championship golf versus somebody like Tom Kim who also put
Speaker 3: up really strong finishes in the fall, but was doing
Speaker 3: it more with the short game in putting. And he
Speaker 3: still had a good career, including in major championships. But
Speaker 3: the upside with Luke Clanton I think resembles some of
Speaker 3: the flashes we've seen from Cam Young, but with much
Speaker 3: better short game. Is that a fair comparison. He's still
Speaker 3: gonna get on me for that.
Speaker 2: One thing I liked about Luke for RSM was I
Speaker 2: think he was towards the bottom of the field. He
Speaker 2: was negative shows gain approach and he had still second
Speaker 2: in green's regulation, so he was missing it well. He
Speaker 2: maybe wasn't flagging short irons like he should have, but
Speaker 2: he's still hitting greens, and I think that's important. I
Speaker 2: think being anywhere on the green is better than being
Speaker 2: off the green almost, you know, without exception, and so
Speaker 2: I think that shows good course management and kind of
Speaker 2: good ball control of controlling your missus. So I thought
Speaker 2: that was a promising site. I don't know, I you know,
Speaker 2: I'd be curious. We have thirty rounds under our belt.
Speaker 2: We have eight events from Luke, four top tens, and
Speaker 2: those eight events two runners up in a fifth and
Speaker 2: a tenth. And then I think the big thing though
Speaker 2: too he made the cut at the US Open, so
Speaker 2: you can talk about how, yeah, he played the John Deere,
Speaker 2: he played the rocket mortgage RSM. These are all birdie
Speaker 2: fest but he finished forty first at Pinehurst, which I
Speaker 2: mean that was a place that you really couldn't fake.
Speaker 2: It didn't seem that was a place that obviously Flumming's
Speaker 2: Scotti Scheffler, he tied Scotty. I'm not saying he's as
Speaker 2: good as Scotty, but finishing T forty one in the
Speaker 2: same spot as Scotty's a pretty good showing there.
Speaker 3: Sean on that I was doing a little I was
Speaker 3: looking through a lot of his scores getting ready for
Speaker 3: this pod. Luke clann opened with a seventy six at Pinehurst,
Speaker 3: major debut, right, first major championship round ever. Second two rounds.
Speaker 3: He shot sixty nine on the second day, which the
Speaker 3: low round was sixty six. Dki was the only player
Speaker 3: who shot that, so Luke was very close to the
Speaker 3: round of the day. And then on Saturday he shot
Speaker 3: sixty nine again the low round was sixty six. Like
Speaker 3: he's showing flashes of playing top of the field in
Speaker 3: strong field. It's not like he finished T forty one
Speaker 3: with four mediocre rounds. Like it was a little volatile,
Speaker 3: which I think you'd expect from a golfer who's just
Speaker 3: finding their footing.
Speaker 1: First first professional, first professional round.
Speaker 2: Yeah, true, true, true, Right for a guy unlike Cam
Speaker 2: Young who's you know a city guy. This is a
Speaker 2: guy from smalltown Florida who you know, that's a big
Speaker 2: stage for him. That so that was obviously maybe getting
Speaker 2: his feet under him in round one and then got
Speaker 2: comfortable and did what he did.
Speaker 1: I think you just look at the landscape of what's
Speaker 1: going on, Dunlap, Clanton, Thorpyards, that's been really good out
Speaker 1: of the gates Ludvig last year, and I just it's
Speaker 1: you know, you see what was coming and to be
Speaker 1: I think one of the things is like these guys
Speaker 1: are more ready than ever to compete. I'm sorry to wonder,
Speaker 1: like how many of the top one hundred players are
Speaker 1: in college right now?
Speaker 2: So you could have six guys who have PGA Tour
Speaker 2: membership in twenty twenty five who played college golf in
Speaker 2: twenty twenty four. With Dunlap Clinton if he gets through
Speaker 2: his twenty points, which maybe we can address that in
Speaker 2: a little bit, I stepped in maybe some hot water, among.
Speaker 1: It did seems like stepped in a step ton of
Speaker 1: land mine. You didn't expect there.
Speaker 2: Did not expect that. Dunlap, Clinton, Thorpe, Jornson, Carl Phillips,
Speaker 2: who uses PG Tour U status to get off the
Speaker 2: corn ferry right away. The PJ Tour U number one
Speaker 2: for twenty twenty five, which right now it's David Ford
Speaker 2: at North Carolina and then Gordon Sargent will be making
Speaker 2: his much awaited PG Tour debut as a member in
Speaker 2: twenty twenty five after ncla's I.
Speaker 1: Mean, it's it's fascinating. It's it's like a fascinating moment
Speaker 1: in the sport because then you start to look at
Speaker 1: the Walker Cup and there's like a lot of young
Speaker 1: younger kids that are in consideration, like high school kids
Speaker 1: that might be even better than this crop of college kids.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's the sport is a fascinating like because
Speaker 1: like you look at like Blades Brown and Miles Rusher
Speaker 1: Russell and these kids that aren't even in college yet
Speaker 1: that are, you know, potentially making the Walker Cup team.
Speaker 1: That's something that doesn't happen very often obviously, like the
Speaker 1: famous ones Brian Harmon who made the team while he
Speaker 1: was still in high school. But I don't know, it's
Speaker 1: an interesting period in the sport with like the game
Speaker 1: is kind of being decoded at the at the at
Speaker 1: earlier and earlier in players' careers.
Speaker 3: I think to that, Andy, if you're a twenty eight
Speaker 3: year old PGA Tour player and you're hovering maybe around
Speaker 3: like seventieth to one hundred and twentieth, you're sort of
Speaker 3: battling for your status. If you don't get appreciably better
Speaker 3: in the next couple of years, you're probably going to
Speaker 3: find yourself on the outside looking in. With this youth
Speaker 3: explosion that's right about to bust in.
Speaker 2: I think too, you look at the top ten or
Speaker 2: top twenty in the world, and all those guys are
Speaker 2: guys who arrived quickly. They mostly were guys we knew
Speaker 2: about an amateur golf. They got on the PGA Tour
Speaker 2: right away. There's not a lot of guys who anymore
Speaker 2: that have like the Jimmy Walker progression where you know,
Speaker 2: he finds it at thirty five and wins his first
Speaker 2: major and wins all of his events from like thirty five.
Speaker 4: What about Xander?
Speaker 2: I mean, Xander got on tour so yeah, right, I
Speaker 2: think Xander and he won the Western m right already
Speaker 2: got to the finals of the Western m and he
Speaker 2: was the California State Amateur or California State Junior champ
Speaker 2: or no state high school champion. I think Xander because
Speaker 2: he started at Long Beach State. I think people are like, oh,
Speaker 2: he must have been overlooked, But really, Long Beach State
Speaker 2: had this coach, Ryan Ressa, who'd come from UCLA and
Speaker 2: he was kind of building an ascendent program. And then
Speaker 2: you know, went to San Diego State, probably to be
Speaker 2: closer to his dad because their relationship in his swing
Speaker 2: coach and so Xander didn't go to Oklahoma State or
Speaker 2: something like that. But I think he had a very
Speaker 2: good amateur career. Then he got out on tour right
Speaker 2: away and he won right away. I mean he was
Speaker 2: what twenty three. I think when he won Greenbrier and
Speaker 2: East Lake, You're you're not spending five years on the
Speaker 2: corn Ferry Tour anymore. It feels like, and then winning
Speaker 2: a major, you might have a nice career. You know,
Speaker 2: a guy like Patton Kauzier has done that. He won
Speaker 2: in the fall. He's won three times now. But as
Speaker 2: far as like the top ten twenty players in the world,
Speaker 2: these are guys I feel like just got out there
Speaker 2: right away.
Speaker 1: I think like one of the other players I had
Speaker 1: on my list of just I guess, you know, like
Speaker 1: it was more about like if you look at the winners,
Speaker 1: it's oftentimes like the big time player or bigger time
Speaker 1: player that was in the event that just popped down
Speaker 1: for a week, and one would be Austin Ekrot, and
Speaker 1: most people would say, oh, Austin Ekro, Like he's not
Speaker 1: a big name. He's only twenty five, right, Yeah, Like
Speaker 1: he's top fifty, he's a top fifty PGA Tour player
Speaker 1: and he's twenty five, right, and he feels like he's
Speaker 1: better around the block, which is like he's been on
Speaker 1: tour for two years. I mean, the youth wave is
Speaker 1: is pretty remarkable. And I think, like Sean, like what
Speaker 1: you said, when you just scroll through the top you know,
Speaker 1: top fifty in the world, it's like all these guys
Speaker 1: you knew of. Like Sahez is a great example. He
Speaker 1: was number one ranked amateur in the world, number one
Speaker 1: college player in college golf, and then Covid hit it
Speaker 1: took him a little bit longer. And I think that
Speaker 1: was like if it was a PGA Tour or you era,
Speaker 1: he would have been number one, and PGA Tour a
Speaker 1: you probably you know, It's like I H I do
Speaker 1: think like and one of my questions I have just
Speaker 1: and this is a little bit off topic, it's like,
Speaker 1: how does PGA tour you evolve? Because I think we're
Speaker 1: getting to the point where it's like pretty clear that
Speaker 1: maybe there should be more spots to get PGA Tour cars.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that is something to consider. I think two,
Speaker 2: we're only two years into you know, the number one
Speaker 2: getting straight to the PGA Tour, and you know, I'll
Speaker 2: be curious if this continues or if this was like,
Speaker 2: you know, just perfect timing you had Ludwig and thorpe
Speaker 2: Jornson come out as your first two guys that went
Speaker 2: straight to the PGA Tour. Because these things do come
Speaker 2: a little bit in waves. I kind of laugh when
Speaker 2: Eyone's like, oh, the youth movement is here, and I'm like,
Speaker 2: do you remember twenty nineteen when like Matt Wolf and
Speaker 2: Colin Morica and Victor Hovlin came straight out, you know,
Speaker 2: the class of twenty eleven with j T and Xander
Speaker 2: and Speeth and so I do think, you know, as
Speaker 2: far as speed dominating the game, and you know, we
Speaker 2: know that distance is an advantage and guys really pursuing it,
Speaker 2: I think it helps, you know, young players dominate but
Speaker 2: these things do kind of come in waves a little bit,
Speaker 2: I think, and this could be just one of those
Speaker 2: kind of generational packages, like the Class of twenty eleven
Speaker 2: was for Speith and JT and Xander when they kind
Speaker 2: of came out right away.
Speaker 1: And iact you're erasing. What'sn't Alie Schneider chance part of classic.
Speaker 2: Te I mean he finished one. He finished in the
Speaker 2: top ten at the Open Championship at St. Andrews along
Speaker 2: with Jordan Nieburg. He finished sixth.
Speaker 1: I will not stand for Alie Schneider chants on this pod.
Speaker 2: He I mean he was. I want to say he
Speaker 2: won the Mark McCormick medal.
Speaker 1: Yes, he's the number one player in the world. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think he was. I think he's just I saw
Speaker 1: something on Instagram. Do you have hip surgery? Double hip surgery?
Speaker 2: I think so. He's had a lot of health problem
Speaker 2: and he had Anthony Pollucci also who you know he
Speaker 2: finished twenty ninth at the Farmers In Turns Open when
Speaker 2: he's in high school.
Speaker 1: So Anthony Pucci gets.
Speaker 2: Clear up my Hogan Award controversy. But we'll get there.
Speaker 3: But to your point, Andy, right, he gets putting it
Speaker 3: in a little bit more concrete terms, like the new
Speaker 3: the direction the tour is going. The top finisher from
Speaker 3: PGA Tour you is behind in terms of priority order,
Speaker 3: the top twenty finishers from the Corn Ferry Tour in
Speaker 3: the previous season, and then the top five finishers from
Speaker 3: Q School might be worth considering where those how many
Speaker 3: of those slots go to PGA toward you guys, and
Speaker 3: exactly where they slot in, right, Like, I think you
Speaker 3: can make a pretty compelling argument that the second player
Speaker 3: on PGA Tour you will probably outperform the eighteenth player
Speaker 3: on the Corn Faery Tour. It's a reasonable thing to monitor,
Speaker 3: and the tour can watch that right and see how
Speaker 3: these guys perform over a period of time and see
Speaker 3: if they need to adjust it.
Speaker 1: To me, the biggest thing is the venues that you play.
Speaker 1: And this is not supposed to be a knock at
Speaker 1: the Corn Fairy Tour, but it is. It's very hard
Speaker 1: to get venues if you're not the PGA Tour. I
Speaker 1: think the PGA it's hard for the PGA Tour to
Speaker 1: get venues in some markets. It makes it even more
Speaker 1: difficult for the Corn Fairy Tour to get to get
Speaker 1: a venue to say hey, we can have you can
Speaker 1: have our venue for our course, whether it's a member
Speaker 1: run course for a week every year. That's a hard
Speaker 1: tall task. One of the things with college golf, because
Speaker 1: of alumni bases and influential alumni, they play awesome venues
Speaker 1: like they play they I would you could make an
Speaker 1: argument that some of the top college golf programs play
Speaker 1: the best venues of any golfer in the world. You know,
Speaker 1: like they you looked at, you run down where they
Speaker 1: play in a given year, and it's like, Wow, sign
Speaker 1: me up for this. So I think one of the
Speaker 1: things is, like I think looking at at the top
Speaker 1: college golfers, just with how young the sport's gotten, I
Speaker 1: think you look at it and you have to say
Speaker 1: you have to take a step back and say, like, hey,
Speaker 1: these kids are playing better venues than the corn Ferry Tour,
Speaker 1: and I think, like the corn Faery Tour venue they
Speaker 1: have like a little bit of a venue problem because
Speaker 1: what you see is the courses they play, and then
Speaker 1: they come up to the PGA Tour. There they're apples
Speaker 1: and oranges, right, like, they test different elements of the game.
Speaker 1: Sure there are some in the middle. I think in
Speaker 1: that soft part of the PGA Tour schedule. Yeah, you know, Sean,
Speaker 1: you talked about TPC Deer Run, wide fairways, lots of
Speaker 1: wedges like those more mimic, but even TPC Dear Run
Speaker 1: compared to some of these Cornberry Tour events like drastically
Speaker 1: more challenging golf course. So I think that's like one
Speaker 1: of the things to think, I, you know, this isn't
Speaker 1: going to happen. I think it's just like there's a
Speaker 1: shortage of professional golf venues and it's a it's a
Speaker 1: big challenge that the PGA Tour faces, but like these
Speaker 1: college kids are playing a PGA Tour level golf course
Speaker 1: calendar leading into it. I think that's another aspect of this.
Speaker 2: You also have between nil and PGA Tour. You there's
Speaker 2: no reason to turn pro early anymore. So these guys
Speaker 2: are all playing four years and coming out and so
Speaker 2: they've made some money. They have some money when they
Speaker 2: turn pro, which also they have endorsement deals, but they're
Speaker 2: not coming out after two years anymore. We haven't seen that.
Speaker 2: I can't think of you know a guy who's on
Speaker 2: like a speed where he turned pro after a year
Speaker 2: and a half. I think because the pd tour you
Speaker 2: care it is so good where you get PD tor
Speaker 2: status through it, then you have status basically for a
Speaker 2: year and a half on tour, and that is worth
Speaker 2: waiting for it, I think, especial when you're alreadyetting paid
Speaker 2: because of nil.
Speaker 1: We're talking about these young players in in the in
Speaker 1: the sport, and I just like want to reiterate, like
Speaker 1: what if Akshay had gone to college, he'd be in
Speaker 1: this conversation too, like just with dunlap and and uh
Speaker 1: And and Ludwig and thorpe Jornsen, Akh would be a
Speaker 1: Chase twenty two. He would be effectively like a college
Speaker 1: junior or senior right now, Like you'd have another like
Speaker 1: if he had gone to college and done the PGA tour,
Speaker 1: you thing that means probably thorp Jornsen doesn't doesn't get
Speaker 1: a PGA Tour card. Like That's the other aspect of
Speaker 1: this is like what about the guys that are that
Speaker 1: don't go to college because they try and go pro
Speaker 1: or their international players like like Tom Kim would be
Speaker 1: another one like who would have probably taking up a
Speaker 1: spot in there. That's the other thing. I think that
Speaker 1: there are three or four players. Probably if you were
Speaker 1: doing it purely off of talent and in scoring, I
Speaker 1: think you probably could make the case of top three
Speaker 1: PGA Tour. You get a card in this current system, Joseph,
Speaker 1: what's your thing that you're watching?
Speaker 3: My biggest takeaway was the youth explosion Andy and specifically
Speaker 3: with Clanton and Dunlap. Another huge note I have is
Speaker 3: that fields are shrinking. That's well covered that the PGA
Speaker 3: tours field sizes are getting a little smaller, but golfers
Speaker 3: have no shortage of opportunities to have full status on
Speaker 3: the PGA Tour. Like something I was looking at Ctpan,
Speaker 3: not to pick on somebody, but he had twenty two
Speaker 3: starts on the PGA Tour this year. He had a
Speaker 3: third finish at the Mexico Open, a T two at
Speaker 3: the John Deere and a T six at the Zozo,
Speaker 3: one other top twenty five, and he finished one hundred
Speaker 3: and second on the FedEx Cup Points list. Like understand
Speaker 3: some of the lesser I'm not gonna call mules so
Speaker 3: to speak, being upset about the tour getting smaller, but
Speaker 3: you have every opportunity to have your tour card, and
Speaker 3: I think looking at examples like ct pan. I don't
Speaker 3: think one hundred is too few golfers to have status.
Speaker 1: I think I think like where I would push back
Speaker 1: is the no cut small event. I think that's where
Speaker 1: to me, where it's going doesn't make a lot of
Speaker 1: sense because that that just is like adis fabric anti competitive.
Speaker 1: But I will say, like a general question, and I
Speaker 1: think this is like a holistic competitive golf question. Do
Speaker 1: you value someone who plays well and can be that
Speaker 1: plays well and finishes in the top you know, ten,
Speaker 1: two or three times a year and is kind of
Speaker 1: then not around very much more than someone that plays
Speaker 1: consistently is like constantly a top forty finisher week in
Speaker 1: week out. Because I think that's like an interesting dynamic
Speaker 1: about how the points work, right, where someone who consistently
Speaker 1: makes cuts and consistent but doesn't have that breakthrough week
Speaker 1: like for whatever reason, just like doesn't have the Saturday
Speaker 1: Like what's crazy about like the difference between T thirty
Speaker 1: two and T eight is it's like I shot sixty
Speaker 1: eight instead of sixty six or sixty five on Saturday,
Speaker 1: you know, and it's like, I you know, it's the
Speaker 1: margines are so small between between those two. I'm just
Speaker 1: you know, it's just kind of something holistically I always
Speaker 1: think about when I when we get to this time
Speaker 1: of year, because like that makeup of like your your
Speaker 1: one hundredth player is usually someone who had two good
Speaker 1: weeks over the course of a twenty five week schedule,
Speaker 1: or someone who just was like consistently you know, above
Speaker 1: average for the whole year with no standout weeks. And
Speaker 1: I don't know, like I kind of like I think
Speaker 1: I lent. I think I favor the guy that's just
Speaker 1: like consistently above average than the person that flashes for
Speaker 1: two weeks at maybe you know, a A Detroit and
Speaker 1: and you know Deer Run. Not to continue to slander
Speaker 1: those two.
Speaker 2: Maybe I'm gonna butcher this statistically, but I feel like
Speaker 2: kind of going off what Joseph said, if you have
Speaker 2: ample opportunity, you're gonna have a start or two where
Speaker 2: you're just your strokes gained for the week, you know,
Speaker 2: deviate high enough on your normal, you're gonna have a
Speaker 2: high finish. Basically, your ceiling is going to be high
Speaker 2: for those couple of weeks. And then if you don't
Speaker 2: ever finish that highly, even your ceiling isn't that high
Speaker 2: and you're not that good. I think that. I just
Speaker 2: feel like there's ample opportunity. Like Joseph said, to have
Speaker 2: your great week, and if you don't have it in
Speaker 2: twenty five starts, then you may not be that great.
Speaker 3: For me, it's how you do it right, Like if
Speaker 3: somebody's consistently gaining strokes, especially tee to green, which we
Speaker 3: know is more predictive of how they're going to play
Speaker 3: in the future, Like it's a little more tied to
Speaker 3: how skillful of a player they are. That's a player
Speaker 3: that would want to keep an eye on, regardless of
Speaker 3: if it's one spike for the year, two spikes for
Speaker 3: the year. I think when you can kind of identify
Speaker 3: a fraud so to speak, is they have like three
Speaker 3: really good weeks and strong fields where they're gaining a
Speaker 3: bunch of strokes putting that propels them, that gives them
Speaker 3: enough points to have status on the tour next year,
Speaker 3: and then you see what happens when they get in
Speaker 3: stronger fields. They are ball striking numbers they'd have to
Speaker 3: put extremely well to even finish in the top twenty.
Speaker 3: So I mean, andy to what you're speaking to. The
Speaker 3: way that points are given out isn't linear. Right, if
Speaker 3: you finish with a good finish and a bad finish,
Speaker 3: you're going to get more points than two average finishes.
Speaker 3: So I hear you, but I think you need to
Speaker 3: look at it a little deeper. That it's about how
Speaker 3: they're doing it, and if they're doing it with the
Speaker 3: ball striking, especially in strong fields, that's what I'd be
Speaker 3: paying attention to.
Speaker 2: All Right, I'm playing in Cameron Young.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean that's a good example, really is all right?
Speaker 1: I mean I go to my next one, Maverick mcneally.
Speaker 1: I feel like he was one of the players. Obviously
Speaker 1: he's the winner of RSM. He was one of the
Speaker 1: players when you look at your to your stats, one
Speaker 1: of the biggest improvers, gained a ton of strokes off
Speaker 1: the tee comparatively, he was distance was up, and I
Speaker 1: think when you looked at it, he was one of
Speaker 1: the players in the fall series where I don't think
Speaker 1: it's like necessarily performance in twenty twenty four matched up
Speaker 1: with where he was in the FedEx Cup and the
Speaker 1: owgr and everything in terms of he was playing a
Speaker 1: lot better golf than maybe his finishes showed, and winning
Speaker 1: this was a big one and I think like he's
Speaker 1: kind of the example of what we're talking about, maybe
Speaker 1: potentially potentially a late bloomer. Even though he might have bloomed,
Speaker 1: he might be the rare example of someone who played
Speaker 1: some of the best golf of their life at age
Speaker 1: twenty one and then you know, managed to rEFInd the
Speaker 1: gear at age twenty What is he twenty eight now
Speaker 1: twenty nine? rEFInd the gear at twenty nine. I thought
Speaker 1: this was you know, Clinton would have been a great story,
Speaker 1: But to me, this was the second best story on
Speaker 1: that leaderboard on Sunday, And I was really happy to
Speaker 1: see him get the win because I do think he
Speaker 1: is a player that could potentially elevate into that signature player.
Speaker 1: And I think also like his voice in the leadership
Speaker 1: aspect of the tour has been pretty refreshing.
Speaker 2: I think he shows a couple of things. One, I
Speaker 2: think he shows how unpredictable golf can be. You know,
Speaker 2: you see the resume at Stanford, Do you think he
Speaker 2: should have come out right away? And then I do
Speaker 2: give him credit for just I think, really reinventing himself
Speaker 2: a little bit when he was playing so all at
Speaker 2: Stanford when he first came out. I mean, he was
Speaker 2: kind of like Joseph said earlier. He was doing it
Speaker 2: with the putter and the ball striking was yeah, and
Speaker 2: the putter was covering up for a lot of mistakes.
Speaker 2: And then he got injured, he added distance. I think
Speaker 2: in response to getting injured, he got stronger to avoid
Speaker 2: the injury. He changed his swing, became a better driver,
Speaker 2: and even he said in his winner's press where he said,
Speaker 2: you know, I've had periods going back to my amateur
Speaker 2: days where I putted really well and him my irons
Speaker 2: really well. Then I got the yips, the full swing
Speaker 2: gips when I turned pro, first got on tour, and
Speaker 2: I think he's been able to really just keep improving,
Speaker 2: which I think is harder said than done, and he's
Speaker 2: done it, and now he's turned himself into that player
Speaker 2: like Joseph said, that relies more on the ball striking
Speaker 2: than the putting and is a more sustainable player than
Speaker 2: he was before.
Speaker 1: I read the article Cameron Morphitt wrote about about his
Speaker 1: UH on PGA tour dot com. You know of websites
Speaker 1: that you're part of, Sean where he I thought it
Speaker 1: was a great like Scott Hamilton, great PGA Tour coach,
Speaker 1: UH coaches a lot of top players. I love the
Speaker 1: idea of how he works with players, where like show
Speaker 1: me a video when you were playing your best golf
Speaker 1: and let's go let's work to that point. And like
Speaker 1: that idea of like, you know, everybody's trying to reinvent,
Speaker 1: Like I'd love some players on tour to do this,
Speaker 1: like could Jordan Speth do this, Like show me a
Speaker 1: video ho when you were playing your best and go
Speaker 1: back to that. Like that, to me is super powerful,
Speaker 1: and I thought, like a really interesting way to teach,
Speaker 1: Like here, show me what your best was, and let's
Speaker 1: work back to that.
Speaker 3: It could be instruction any The other thing I was
Speaker 3: going to throw in is that Michael Kim had put
Speaker 3: this out this morning that he talked to Matt McNeil
Speaker 3: and he just found a new driver that he liked.
Speaker 3: And sometimes you see that where whether it's technique or equipment,
Speaker 3: make a little change and the results get a lot better.
Speaker 3: So I'm with you on the instruction kind of matching
Speaker 3: up with where they felt the best. I think some
Speaker 3: of it can also just be equipment and sometimes guys
Speaker 3: sponsorship deals holding them back. I'm not sure that that
Speaker 3: was the case with Matt McNeely. But finding a new
Speaker 3: driver and then getting better performance is not that rare
Speaker 3: of a phenomenon.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he became a free agentist year. He talked about
Speaker 2: to his old Caddy before his brother Scout got in
Speaker 2: the bag sent a set of irons to him that
Speaker 2: kind of held encouraged the swing changes he was making
Speaker 2: of swinging more left and not getting his under it.
Speaker 2: But you know, looking at a status of the season,
Speaker 2: he was twenty third and off the tee tenth and
Speaker 2: around the green twenty ninth and putting, and then the
Speaker 2: one kind of weakness was one hundred and eighteenth in
Speaker 2: approach to green, So three solid portions of his game. Obviously,
Speaker 2: you'd probably like to see the approach play be better
Speaker 2: for a kind of sustainable success. But I mean, if
Speaker 2: you're driving it well and putting it well, you can,
Speaker 2: I think, find ways to get it done.
Speaker 1: He seems like he's gearing up to be one of
Speaker 1: Joseph's favorite wedge Fest assassins.
Speaker 2: Well, the other thing, I mean, he was one hundred
Speaker 2: and eighty eighth and strokes gained off the t last year.
Speaker 2: I mean we're talking about a horrible you know, horrible
Speaker 2: I think there were like one hundred and ninety ish
Speaker 2: guys each year in the stats. So I mean, we're
Speaker 2: talking about one of the worst drivers on tour last
Speaker 2: year to one of the best this year. And I
Speaker 2: think he talked about he was getting way under it,
Speaker 2: which caused you to flip that a hit hooks, which
Speaker 2: is not a recipe for good driving.
Speaker 3: I was going to say, you're right, Andy that the
Speaker 3: lack of strong approach play, especially in good fields this year,
Speaker 3: and not a lot of major championship success, Like if
Speaker 3: you're putting your boots in the ground that you think, hey,
Speaker 3: this is going to be somebody that breaks out next year,
Speaker 3: I would love to see it. I might take the
Speaker 3: other side of that a little bit. It shows some
Speaker 3: signs of like not the ball striking in elite fields
Speaker 3: to have this major leap to be like a top
Speaker 3: twenty five player in the world.
Speaker 1: I think the reality though about the PGA Tour schedule
Speaker 1: is you can break out and just break out on
Speaker 1: golf courses that hit your game. I think that is
Speaker 1: like one of the things I think that's becoming more
Speaker 1: and more abundantly clear with the tour is that there
Speaker 1: are players that play well everywhere, and I think statistics
Speaker 1: are helping tell us this story a little bit more.
Speaker 1: And then there are players that play well at certain
Speaker 1: types of golf courses and there's room for both of them.
Speaker 1: And I think it, you know, if you think about
Speaker 1: it in terms of like another sport. I know, Sean's
Speaker 1: a big baseball guy, but it's like, you know, you
Speaker 1: have your your starting pitchers, who are you know, now
Speaker 1: throwing five innings, six innings or whatever it may be
Speaker 1: on a good day. Those are those are your guys
Speaker 1: that have nasty stuff, have all the pitches, and then
Speaker 1: you get into the bullpen and you have like who
Speaker 1: is the pitcher? Was he the Dodgers pitcher who threw
Speaker 1: like eighteen straight change ups?
Speaker 2: No, it was a guy in the Yankees who he's
Speaker 2: going to Dodger to get his name now. He threw
Speaker 2: like it was like sixteen in a row.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like he's just a change up specialist. Like
Speaker 1: I was like, wait, isn't that just wouldn't that just
Speaker 1: be like a fastball? Then he just gonna throw the
Speaker 1: change up?
Speaker 2: Yeah. Time it was befuddling because I'm like, how do
Speaker 2: you not time that up? At some point you've seen
Speaker 2: like ten in a row, can't you just yeah, just wait, man,
Speaker 2: just wait.
Speaker 1: So so to me, like if you think about golfers
Speaker 1: in the way of like a baseball pitcher, you have
Speaker 1: room for all these guys just because again going back
Speaker 1: to like the earlier conversation, like golf has a venue issue,
Speaker 1: and I think it's because of how much how much
Speaker 1: speed and distance that technology is enabled to be in
Speaker 1: the game. Is that like you have this like everybody
Speaker 1: hits it far and the there are only so many
Speaker 1: venues that can provide that well rounded test that we
Speaker 1: that we crave, and it's just it's just hard to
Speaker 1: there's you know, there might be fifteen venues in the
Speaker 1: world that provide a test of golf that we where
Speaker 1: we see like wow, like this really makes them think
Speaker 1: and have to hit shots that are different, Like there
Speaker 1: just aren't many of them. So I think that's one
Speaker 1: of the challenges in the sport. Sean, what's what's another
Speaker 1: one of yours?
Speaker 2: I think we were talking about the young guys. I
Speaker 2: think when I was really looking at the fall and
Speaker 2: some of the results, it actually was a good fall
Speaker 2: for the old guys. You had a general patent exactly.
Speaker 2: I mean, I do want to get to Kevin you
Speaker 2: at some point, I kind of like his d We'll
Speaker 2: get all right, we'll get there. But when you look
Speaker 2: at the guys who moved into the top one twenty
Speaker 2: five in the Fall, you've got David Lifsky went from
Speaker 2: one to sixty five to ninety seven. He was thirty six,
Speaker 2: compos was thirty six, because Iris thirty eight. McCarty is
Speaker 2: twenty six. I think we can talk about him too.
Speaker 2: But you know Berger was thirty one. He moved into
Speaker 2: the top one twenty five, Grayson sig was twenty nine,
Speaker 2: Hendrick Norlanders thirty seven, Alex Smalley's twenty eight, same Ryders
Speaker 2: thirty four. And you know, Lucas Glover played well in
Speaker 2: the Fall. And I think that we made that point
Speaker 2: about the elite guys. They come out right away and
Speaker 2: they identified themselves right away as elite talents, and I
Speaker 2: think that's the case. But then there's something in that
Speaker 2: kind of middle tier where I think the experience puts
Speaker 2: you over the edge. I have this theory and I
Speaker 2: haven't looked at it really but too deeply. But you know,
Speaker 2: the guys who are like one oh one to two
Speaker 2: hundred in the FedEx Cup, and you know, maybe the
Speaker 2: top seventy five guys in the corn Ferry kind of
Speaker 2: looking at the guys that you know used to play
Speaker 2: in those corn Ferry Tour finals, those guys, I feel
Speaker 2: like are pretty similar strokes gained wise, and I think
Speaker 2: where they go the next season, whether they earn their
Speaker 2: tour card or keep it or they get demoted. I
Speaker 2: think it really comes down to a few well timed
Speaker 2: shots in the season. Like one year, you make that
Speaker 2: six footer on eighteen to finish solo second instead of
Speaker 2: a three way tie for second, and that's enough points
Speaker 2: to get your card, or you know, you missed that putt,
Speaker 2: or you know you burdy the last three on Sunday
Speaker 2: to finish fourth, And I think that all those guys
Speaker 2: are kind of just separated by a couple of well
Speaker 2: timed shots. And I feel like in the Fall where
Speaker 2: I think you that's an opportunity for young guys in
Speaker 2: KFT grads to really pop because they're playing consistently. We
Speaker 2: didn't actually see it a ton There was no real
Speaker 2: you know, thorpe Jornson played very well. He missed a
Speaker 2: bunch of the Fall because he sprained his knee in Utah,
Speaker 2: and obviously McCarty came out and won. But really the
Speaker 2: fall I feel like was a time for let's say
Speaker 2: the veteran players, and I think that when you get
Speaker 2: to the kind of that middle tier of the tour
Speaker 2: and the Cornferry Tour, I think experience matters, if that
Speaker 2: makes sense.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean you look at a guy like Henrik Norlander. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like he's just been in this position so many times
Speaker 1: in his career that I think like there is like
Speaker 1: a gravity to the fall, like where it's like, oh, man,
Speaker 1: like you see the set number of events that you have,
Speaker 1: and you know, like you can fall pretty far, Like
Speaker 1: you can go from I don't know, probably eighty fifth
Speaker 1: to out in that stretch of time. I don't think
Speaker 1: that's unreal. It's like I have to play well, like
Speaker 1: and I think there's like an even if I have
Speaker 1: to play well one week, and when you don't play
Speaker 1: well the first week, it becomes heavier and it just continues.
Speaker 1: And somebody who's played a lot of golf probably knows
Speaker 1: how to compartmentalize a little bit more. It could even
Speaker 1: be a huge advantage if you have a life like
Speaker 1: kids in a family versus being single and this being
Speaker 1: the only thing you know that I think that could
Speaker 1: be an advantage to this, where like you leave the
Speaker 1: golf course and there are other things that take up
Speaker 1: your mind other than what's going on over this eight
Speaker 1: eight start stretch.
Speaker 2: Well, I think we in the media too. We gush
Speaker 2: over the Luke Claytons and Michael thorpe Gornson's and they
Speaker 2: are elite talents or they seem headed that way, but
Speaker 2: when you get down to it, there's still a lot
Speaker 2: of guys who maybe they've been around for a while
Speaker 2: and they're not the you know, sexiest storylines. They're not
Speaker 2: the young up and comer, but they just know how
Speaker 2: to golf their ball.
Speaker 1: Well. Also, like I mean, Lucas Glover was Luke Clanton,
Speaker 1: you know, twenty five years ago or whatever. I mean,
Speaker 1: he was a stud. He was a stud at Clemson.
Speaker 2: And they may not know, they may not do what
Speaker 2: Joseph said and like dominate in elite events, but you
Speaker 2: get him into kind of your standard run of the
Speaker 2: middle PGA Tour event fall event, and they can get
Speaker 2: it done there.
Speaker 3: I was just going to say, like one of the
Speaker 3: best examples of that, I feel like is Matt Kocher,
Speaker 3: who obviously is great, great golfer, Like, we'll probably go
Speaker 3: down as one of the most underrated players to play
Speaker 3: on the PGA Tour in the twenty first century. You
Speaker 3: look at his results this year. It was bad the
Speaker 3: first half of the year, especially in strong fields. Then
Speaker 3: once he pieces it together a little bit, like he's
Speaker 3: pretty consistently gaining strokes in some of these weaker fields,
Speaker 3: the Windom, which will be remembered infamously for him finishing
Speaker 3: the next day right T twelve, T thirteen at Silverado,
Speaker 3: T fourteen at Shriners, Like you get a golfer like
Speaker 3: that who's crafty and knows these golf courses, who's probably
Speaker 3: just frankly better than some of these up and comers
Speaker 3: that haven't cut their teeth yet, like they're gonna show
Speaker 3: it in the non signature events.
Speaker 1: You know what kind of reminds me of. It reminds
Speaker 1: me of when like certified NBA players are out of
Speaker 1: the rotation and they send them down to the g
Speaker 1: League and it's like this guy scored forty two and
Speaker 1: Jenni said, it's like wait a second, yea everages like
Speaker 1: six points a game in the NBA, Like, you know,
Speaker 1: it's like.
Speaker 3: Bill Brow Phil winning on the Champions Tour run when
Speaker 3: he goes out there, Like it's it's a very similar dynamic.
Speaker 3: These fields are quite quite different in field strength.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's I think that's a's a it's a good point.
Speaker 1: And I think like one of the things is like
Speaker 1: we have like almost like a growing is it it
Speaker 1: could it be fair to call them like middle class
Speaker 1: golfers because of the youth invasion. Is like one of
Speaker 1: the things that we have is like we have a
Speaker 1: bigger middle class, Like like if you're not like really
Speaker 1: great at age thirty, you just like go into this bucket.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think that's kind of what I was,
Speaker 2: I think describing with the guys who are just separated
Speaker 2: by a well time shot here and there, and that
Speaker 2: kind of determines if they're PGA Tour players or the
Speaker 2: Cornferry Tour players the next season. I think they're I
Speaker 2: think there's separation among those top ten and top twenty
Speaker 2: players in the world. I think Joseph kind of touched
Speaker 2: on it in your pod with Ryan French about you know,
Speaker 2: we talked about small margins and they're all are. There
Speaker 2: are small margin between one and twenty six and thirty
Speaker 2: and thirty one on the courts very tour, but the
Speaker 2: margins between you know, one through ten in the world
Speaker 2: one through twenty versus number one twenty five, I think
Speaker 2: are pretty big.
Speaker 3: I mean, you look at JT. Poston, who's kind of
Speaker 3: a I don't know if i'd call him a bona
Speaker 3: fide signature event player, but he's a good PGA Tour player.
Speaker 3: Played twice this fall one and finished T five. Those
Speaker 3: courses might suit his game a little bit, but like
Speaker 3: that's what happens when a player who's well above the
Speaker 3: average in the field shows up.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was one of my notes. Is just like
Speaker 1: if you look at some of the winners in this parlor,
Speaker 1: this ties in well with with Sean. It's like you
Speaker 1: look at us like McNeely. Austin Heck wrote, JT. Poston,
Speaker 1: I think, Kevin, you I put it in this bucket.
Speaker 1: It's like you know it you take away like Campos,
Speaker 1: which was a good story, and obviously I think like
Speaker 1: there's something about Campos and playing in windy conditions that
Speaker 1: islands present that he becomes one of the better players
Speaker 1: but you look at those players, like those are all
Speaker 1: certified PGA Tour players and they've proven you know it
Speaker 1: over a long period of time or not long, but
Speaker 1: like you know, Ekro was in the top fifty, Like
Speaker 1: they just bounced down and they win these events.
Speaker 2: The average age of winners in the Fall was thirty
Speaker 2: point one, So it wasn't like I mean, it was
Speaker 2: like half the guys were in their twenties and half
Speaker 2: of their thirties. But it wasn't a munch like Spring
Speaker 2: Chickens guys fresh out of college, fresh off PJ Tour. You.
Speaker 2: I actually I put Kevin You in that fast riser
Speaker 2: bucket though.
Speaker 1: I did I have him too. I wanted to talk
Speaker 1: about Kevin You. I think he's like this again, this
Speaker 1: is a guy that was top five in PGA Tour
Speaker 1: U and it's basically just cleared every echelon as he's
Speaker 1: gone up, it's been super impressive.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he came straight out, so he turned prone in
Speaker 2: twenty twenty one, and that's when corn Ferry Tour was
Speaker 2: having that like eighteen month season because of COVID. Four
Speaker 2: straight top twenty five is to start his pro career
Speaker 2: a T five and then a playoff loss. Then he
Speaker 2: gets his PG Tour card after one full season on
Speaker 2: the corn Forry Tour twenty twenty two, keeps his card
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty three, and wins in twenty twenty four,
Speaker 2: and just I mean, the profile is there. He's twelfth
Speaker 2: and off the t and thirty six and Stroskin approach,
Speaker 2: but one hundred and fifty fifth in Stroskane around the green,
Speaker 2: one hundred fifty third in Shroskin putting, and his results
Speaker 2: are very volatile, and I think it's probably just weeks
Speaker 2: where he happens to shake them in putting wise, which
Speaker 2: I think everyone can do, even the worst putters. Then
Speaker 2: he has good results where he wins, and obviously there's
Speaker 2: room for approvement of the short game. But the boss
Speaker 2: writing skills are there?
Speaker 1: A hypothetical question that I've had, and I think, like
Speaker 1: when you look at Kevin you is a good kind
Speaker 1: of like that. It'd be nice to look at all players,
Speaker 1: But how much of it an event? How much of
Speaker 1: it a improvement can we expect around the green and
Speaker 1: putting simply by not having it be your first time
Speaker 1: around all the golf courses on the PGA Tour Like
Speaker 1: that to me, thinking about it from a playing perspective,
Speaker 1: has to be a massive, massive advantage when you're talking
Speaker 1: about not only your second time around second like and
Speaker 1: when I say that, like your second season playing the
Speaker 1: same courses for the most part, like the tour, Like
Speaker 1: if once you've played these golf courses five or six
Speaker 1: weeks of your life, you know in your fifth or
Speaker 1: sixth season you have such an advantage on the greens,
Speaker 1: like I think about like when I go go back
Speaker 1: to golf court, like one of the golf courses I
Speaker 1: grew up caddying at. I caddied there so many times,
Speaker 1: like I don't even have to read putts, Like I
Speaker 1: go onto those greens, I feel at home. I make
Speaker 1: everything when you when you play the tour, you're in
Speaker 1: year out, you gain familiarity, you understand where to miss,
Speaker 1: you're around. The green numbers should theoretically go up, and
Speaker 1: on the green numbers should go up, they should improve
Speaker 1: with experience. Like to me, those are two spots where
Speaker 1: you would make market improvement just by not being the
Speaker 1: one that's seen the golf course the least on tour.
Speaker 2: A couple of things there when I went up to
Speaker 2: watch Ludwig and Luke Clayton and Matt McCarty. On Friday,
Speaker 2: I was talking to Luke. Clayton's coach is Jeff Leishman.
Speaker 2: He's been around for a long time as a top
Speaker 2: one hundred coach. He was Burger's coach when he came up,
Speaker 2: and no relation, no relation to Mark no is.
Speaker 1: He a big guy, fairly big.
Speaker 2: He's Canadian though, but he made the telecats. If you
Speaker 2: could see him talking to Luke while he's warming up
Speaker 2: after his round on Sunday for a potential playoff, He's
Speaker 2: in there talking to him. But you know, I just
Speaker 2: made a mention about, you know, strokes gain around the
Speaker 2: green losing strokes there, and he said, you know, the
Speaker 2: short game shots just that are demanded out here are
Speaker 2: much different than in college, and so it's just a
Speaker 2: matter of learning. Though, So I do think the experience
Speaker 2: of being on tour more you just learn those different shots.
Speaker 2: And then also I think the way strokes gain around
Speaker 2: the green is calculated. Some of it I think could
Speaker 2: come down to target selection, because around the green is
Speaker 2: basically it takes your lie and your distance from your pin.
Speaker 2: So if you're short sighted, it's an impossible chip shot
Speaker 2: in real life, but the computers looking at it and
Speaker 2: it's like, well, you're only twenty feet from the pan
Speaker 2: and you're in the rough and you just hit it
Speaker 2: to thirty feet, it's gonna severely dock you. And so
Speaker 2: if you're short siding yourself a bunch, which I don't
Speaker 2: know if Kevin is I didn't break down his shot trails,
Speaker 2: which maybe I should have. But if you're short siding
Speaker 2: yourself a bunch, you're stroskating around the green. You're get
Speaker 2: hammered in that because you're not chipping it close from
Speaker 2: close proximity to the hole, And so that also could
Speaker 2: be a target selection issue as well.
Speaker 1: I think one of the things I noticed with the
Speaker 1: PGA Tour, and this is just a general observation, everybody's like,
Speaker 1: oh they have these courses, it's such you know, they're
Speaker 1: they're so soft and easy. The pins, the whole locations
Speaker 1: on tour are insane. They are insane. They are like
Speaker 1: just like shoved into corners, so inaccessible. Like if like
Speaker 1: regular compared to like a regular golf setup like at
Speaker 1: your club or course, if you put PGA Tour pins out,
Speaker 1: your course would play four shots harder. I'm convinced like
Speaker 1: they are, like you just like a regular golfer cannot
Speaker 1: get at the pins like good shots are twenty feet away.
Speaker 1: Like I think, like that's something that like the general fan,
Speaker 1: casual onlooker does not understand about a PGA Tour setup
Speaker 1: is like the pins are insane.
Speaker 3: I think andy with that, Like, I think you'll hear
Speaker 3: a lot of older PGA Tour players say that that
Speaker 3: is different than twenty years ago. Oh yeah, it has
Speaker 3: gotten appreciably harder. And not to turn this into like
Speaker 3: a distance issue, but when you talk about scores going
Speaker 3: down over the past twenty twenty five years, like that's
Speaker 3: something that I think goes overlooked a little bit is
Speaker 3: that they've also made the pins. If they've cranked the
Speaker 3: greens up and put the pins in extremely difficult locations
Speaker 3: like oftentimes right at the top of a slope or
Speaker 3: where it's like really hard to read the putts. You
Speaker 3: hear golfers talk about this all the time. The pins
Speaker 3: have pretty much been pushed to the max.
Speaker 2: I think the other thing too, we forget how much
Speaker 2: players still can improve after they get on tour. I
Speaker 2: did a podcast with Brian Harmon earlier this year, and
Speaker 2: you know, you'd think, you know, Brian Harmon was all
Speaker 2: everything phenom when he came out, he two Walker Cubs,
Speaker 2: US Junior Champion, number on amateur in the world, and
Speaker 2: he talked about how he sought out aftergot on the
Speaker 2: PGA tour. He sought out Jim Furick for advice on chipping.
Speaker 2: Heud having trouble hitting like the I think the high
Speaker 2: soft shot out of Bermuda, and he loved the way
Speaker 2: Furich did it. And he looked at the stats and
Speaker 2: think Furich had like the best proximity from the rough
Speaker 2: around the green or something. And so Brian Harmon, this
Speaker 2: guy who you'd think would know a ton like it's
Speaker 2: still seeking out Jim Furick for advice on how to chip.
Speaker 2: And so for a guy like Kevin, you you know,
Speaker 2: there's room for improvement probably and picking the brains of
Speaker 2: tour players and how to hit these shots, or picking
Speaker 2: the brains of coaches. And also goes back to that
Speaker 2: thing of like the wiley veterans who separated themselves in
Speaker 2: the fall, like guys are still improving even when they
Speaker 2: get on to it. They don't arrive on tour as
Speaker 2: finished products.
Speaker 1: All right, let's take a quick break here to remind
Speaker 1: you guys about Club TF. Club TF is our membership.
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Speaker 1: gift for the golf lover in your life is a
Speaker 1: Club TF subscription. It's our membership. It is the place
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Speaker 1: learn more there. All right, let's get back to Joseph
Speaker 1: and Sean. Joseph, what's that? What do you what else
Speaker 1: do you have on your list?
Speaker 3: Other big takeaway I have that hasn't been covered yet
Speaker 3: as a player who I don't know where you guys
Speaker 3: would categorize him, if he's in the middle class, if
Speaker 3: he's an up and comer, not up incomer. But I'm
Speaker 3: pretty excited about the return of Daniel Berger. And I
Speaker 3: mean he's not an upcomer. Was he thirty one?
Speaker 4: But Daniel Berger.
Speaker 1: He was on.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he was on quite a trajectory before getting hurt.
Speaker 3: And I mean, I don't know if people, if you
Speaker 3: started watching golf in like twenty twenty one or twenty twenty,
Speaker 3: he'd probably be on the short list of golfers that
Speaker 3: you don't appreciate enough. I was looking at some of
Speaker 3: his results today. In twenty twenty, he went through a
Speaker 3: nine event stretch where he had seven top tens in
Speaker 3: a win, and one of those events was a T
Speaker 3: thirteen at the PGA Championship. Burger's got the pedigree. He's
Speaker 3: done well in majors. He finished in two top tens
Speaker 3: in the same year in twenty twenty one in major championships,
Speaker 3: just dealt with an injury, and now he's climbing his
Speaker 3: way back. Loved his quote this past weekend that if
Speaker 3: he plays at a tenth of his potential He's in
Speaker 3: a completely different class than a lot of these golfers
Speaker 3: he's playing against. I like the swagger, and he's right.
Speaker 3: He speaks to this difference in levels that we've been
Speaker 3: alluding to throughout this pop like a top if a
Speaker 3: bona fide signature event level player shows up like they
Speaker 3: get the job done. He almost won the RSM this
Speaker 3: past weekend. I think Daniel Berger is somebody. Now that
Speaker 3: he's healthy, you really got to consider him as being
Speaker 3: a potential, like top thirty player into twenty twenty five.
Speaker 2: My only concern there is the back injury seemed really severe,
Speaker 2: and so you wonder how banged up he is, how
Speaker 2: much that's going to limit him maybe in practice and
Speaker 2: prep and reps, and then how long he can stay
Speaker 2: healthy for.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 4: But did you see him talk about it this week?
Speaker 2: I didn't.
Speaker 3: He said he played twenty seven holes on Tuesday trying
Speaker 3: to get ready because he hadn't seen this golf course before,
Speaker 3: and that his back feels one hundred percent. So we'll
Speaker 3: see what happens with that. But that's a legitimate concern,
Speaker 3: but it seems to be in a pretty good spot.
Speaker 2: He's also working with Mark Blackburn.
Speaker 1: Now, oh, number one coach in the in the world. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's uh. I think uh. I think like with Berger too,
Speaker 1: when you have something like that and you see, I
Speaker 1: think he probably looks at his career, he looks at
Speaker 1: what Brooks Kopka's done, he looks at what Justin thomas
Speaker 1: has done, he looks at what Jordan Spieth's done, and
Speaker 1: I think he probably thinks he's as good, if not
Speaker 1: better than a lot of those guys in his own mind.
Speaker 1: Whether or not he is there's another question. But like
Speaker 1: I think like he's the quintessential tour pro, like elite
Speaker 1: tour pro where they are irrationally confident and believe have
Speaker 1: like extraordinary self belief. That is like to me, like
Speaker 1: when people ask me what are tour pros like, it
Speaker 1: is like they have more confidence than you can ever imagine.
Speaker 1: Like most golfers walk around thinking about how much they suck.
Speaker 1: They are the ones that like never think they've hit
Speaker 1: a bad shot in their lives. And that quote is
Speaker 1: like very telling of how Daniel Berger reviews his golf game.
Speaker 1: I love it because it tells you that, like he
Speaker 1: is probably someone who believes that his career has been
Speaker 1: a disappointment to date. And I think with all the
Speaker 1: wealth in the sport, all of the money, it gets
Speaker 1: very hard to be dedicated and driven at age thirty,
Speaker 1: you know, thirty one. And I think he's one of
Speaker 1: the people that you could look at and say, you
Speaker 1: know what, this guy might still want to be great.
Speaker 3: He also hasn't seen that money, right, Yeah, he wasn't
Speaker 3: playing when the purses got huge, and he didn't go
Speaker 3: to live so he's not somebody that's had a taste
Speaker 3: of that.
Speaker 1: And he a bigger boat.
Speaker 2: The back was so bad he couldn't go on the boat.
Speaker 2: What he said, the water of the rocking was hurt
Speaker 2: his back.
Speaker 1: One of the things I think about with all the
Speaker 1: time is a PGA tour player once told me who
Speaker 1: he had he had good success is that he told me,
Speaker 1: Like if you look at when a bona fide PGA
Speaker 1: tour player gets relegated down to corn Ferry, they immediately
Speaker 1: are back like it is like just like no doubt
Speaker 1: about it. They go down to corn Ferry and they
Speaker 1: are just immediately back up. And I think this is
Speaker 1: like there what we've talked about the themes of that,
Speaker 1: this are like of this conversation are like when there's
Speaker 1: a top echelon player playing in in the in the
Speaker 1: Fall or the Deer Runs or the Rocket Mortgages, like
Speaker 1: it's always like Tony for now, I feel like Tony
Speaker 1: Fenw is always the top top ranked player and Rocket
Speaker 1: Mortgage and three'm and it's like, sure enough, there he
Speaker 1: is the top of leaderboard. You know, John Brahm when
Speaker 1: he played the Mexico Open. Sure enough, there he is
Speaker 1: right right in the mix, you know, no matter how
Speaker 1: well he's playing, Like it is like an interesting dichotomy
Speaker 1: that's starting to come out. I think this is just
Speaker 1: with the tour. You know, it used to be that,
Speaker 1: you know, in the nineties. This probably still would have
Speaker 1: been the same true in the nineties, but everybody played
Speaker 1: everything because they had to, you know, like the wealth
Speaker 1: wasn't at the level where you could get reduced down
Speaker 1: to a eighteen eighteen weeks year schedule. My last thing
Speaker 1: for the Fall, I thought Black Desert was super fun.
Speaker 1: It was like I haven't gotten like I really liked
Speaker 1: I would like to see the best players in the
Speaker 1: world play Black Desert. To be completely honest, I thought
Speaker 1: it was a super unique test. It was really fun
Speaker 1: golf course. And then in terms of like a television
Speaker 1: product so stunning visually, the lava, the mountains, the you know,
Speaker 1: the very lush ride crass, and then also the time
Speaker 1: of day that it's on, like it provides a really
Speaker 1: nice TV window. I know it gets hot, really hot there.
Speaker 1: But could we get Black Desert into like May? Could
Speaker 1: we get it in the May zone, like when sports
Speaker 1: are kind of dying down and then you get this
Speaker 1: like kind of primetime golf.
Speaker 2: I mean it's in a desert, right, Yeah, I applied
Speaker 2: to you for winter. I mean maybe can you touch
Speaker 2: on the end of the West Coast wing.
Speaker 1: I think Saint Georgian in May you could. I'm just
Speaker 1: trying to get it to where the daylight matches up
Speaker 1: and you get the like primetime golf. Okay, well, I
Speaker 1: mean you know that's.
Speaker 3: The only the problem, Mandy, Like, I'm with you. I
Speaker 3: think it's by far the best venue of the fall.
Speaker 3: If you took it out of the fall, like the
Speaker 3: fall would take a big hit. I kind of enjoy
Speaker 3: looking forward to a good venue in the fall, like
Speaker 3: Black Desert. If we just start taking all the good
Speaker 3: ones like Memorial Park and deciding that they need to
Speaker 3: go where the top players might play them. I think
Speaker 3: you end up with a fall that's pretty lackluster, which
Speaker 3: we mostly have at this point, with the exception of
Speaker 3: Black Desert.
Speaker 4: Do we have to get rid of the one good one?
Speaker 2: I just I'm not going to stand for the Sea
Speaker 2: Island slander. No.
Speaker 1: I think it's like I think it's probably one of
Speaker 1: my twelve to fifteen favorite PGA tour venues.
Speaker 2: Agree this is not a take I thought I was
Speaker 2: going to get on this podcast. I mean, I'm glad
Speaker 2: I did. I think at the point you made about
Speaker 2: too like a TV product, Like it's just something that
Speaker 2: pops and you turn it on and you're like, what
Speaker 2: is this? This is so different?
Speaker 1: But I like to have it on at night because
Speaker 1: if we so April, the Highs and Saint George are
Speaker 1: seventy average high is seventy six.
Speaker 2: That sounds perfect.
Speaker 1: May the average high is eighty six. So to me,
Speaker 1: if you move it into that area, like it's a
Speaker 1: great TV like, this is like a especially if you
Speaker 1: get your best players playing there, I think this is
Speaker 1: a great This could be a great event, And honestly,
Speaker 1: like there aren't many opportunities for there to be great
Speaker 1: events on tour where you have like a very interesting
Speaker 1: and different test, Like I think, like what I loved
Speaker 1: about it was there was enough space where you could
Speaker 1: you could go out there and ripdriver in distance is
Speaker 1: a huge advantage, but there was the trouble made it
Speaker 1: so that you had like you had this great mix
Speaker 1: of like short accurate players and long players, and it
Speaker 1: was like it was one of the more compelling tests.
Speaker 1: Like what we need in golf is more lava is
Speaker 1: what I'm convinced, just wekay shipping in shipping in lava everywhere.
Speaker 2: Should we take the regular tour to Hawaiili take it
Speaker 2: from PGA Tour.
Speaker 3: Champions No, Andy your point about it, They're being enough
Speaker 3: with but it crushing wide misses Like that's a great
Speaker 3: example of a course that if Bryson to Shamba were
Speaker 3: still on the PGA Tour, like he'd I think a
Speaker 3: lot of people would assume that he'd do great there
Speaker 3: and he wouldn't necessarily because the way Bryson hits it,
Speaker 3: any mishit shot at his distance, it's like a full
Speaker 3: shot and a half penalty. You were not playing those shots.
Speaker 3: They were almost all unplayable once they got off the fairway,
Speaker 3: so I would love to see better players tackle that course.
Speaker 1: I think we should just like when we talk about venues,
Speaker 1: and I think like everybody just thinks, like, oh, this guy,
Speaker 1: he just likes like Riviera. What what we want out
Speaker 1: of our tour venues is we want diversity, and we
Speaker 1: want to have skill courses that bring out different skill sets,
Speaker 1: because otherwise it just becomes too one dimensional. Like the
Speaker 1: venues to a certain extent, like outside the top players
Speaker 1: are going to the very best are going to play
Speaker 1: well everywhere, right, but the venues to a certain extent
Speaker 1: dictate who the top fifty players in the world are.
Speaker 1: And I think like that, like you need to have
Speaker 1: venues like Black Desert where the best players go play
Speaker 1: because it offers a completely different dynamic, like it would
Speaker 1: be you know, I'm not a car racing person. I
Speaker 1: do not watch this, but if every venue, every car
Speaker 1: racing track was the same exact dimensions, it would be
Speaker 1: a lot it would not be interesting.
Speaker 2: Well, I think NASCAR they are.
Speaker 1: Well, that's probably why NASCAR is not as popular as
Speaker 1: F one.
Speaker 3: I think the Tory Andy would argue that they already
Speaker 3: have a diverse set of courses, right, that completely different
Speaker 3: from Riviera, which is completely different from Bayhill, which is
Speaker 3: completely different.
Speaker 1: From your travelers Travelers. Yeah, what was the travelers test?
Speaker 1: Not that anything? Nothing. How many people will.
Speaker 3: Show up to a golf course that doesn't provide a test,
Speaker 3: and I think is what the travelers tests?
Speaker 1: Well, you know, lots of people show up when there's
Speaker 1: twenty million or something.
Speaker 2: Great wedg players.
Speaker 1: All right, who's got stuff left?
Speaker 2: Like that? I want to talk about the Maxes. I
Speaker 2: feel like we're up for an exciting year for Max's
Speaker 2: in general. Home is trying to work his way back
Speaker 2: and you know, get a swing back and then I
Speaker 2: have the yips already on it. But Max Grazerman and
Speaker 2: Max McGreevy both had great falls and it's already a struggle.
Speaker 2: So McGreevy was number two on the Cornfarry Tour points
Speaker 2: list in twenty twenty four. He got a sponsor exemption
Speaker 2: into Utah and finished eleventh. But the bigger thing was
Speaker 2: he won the Dunlop.
Speaker 1: Phoenix over you were going to go there, Ox Shay.
Speaker 2: And Hideki and then he actually just won the Tailor
Speaker 2: Made Invitational at Pebble, which is kind of a hit
Speaker 2: and giggle, but you know it's they've got tour players there,
Speaker 2: it's a it's a nice offseason event, and he seems
Speaker 2: poised for a big twenty twenty five. He's a guy
Speaker 2: who he's twenty nine and had to bounce back and forth.
Speaker 2: So I think maybe he could be an exception to
Speaker 2: all the things we've talked about here, but he's a
Speaker 2: guy who I think looking forward to. And then obviously
Speaker 2: Max Grazerman. You know, he showed up in the fall
Speaker 2: and continued doing what he did at the end of
Speaker 2: the year. He finished second at Zozo and fourth at
Speaker 2: in Mexico, and so I think four top four finishes
Speaker 2: in his last six starts. He was second on tour
Speaker 2: in stros game putting this season, so it'd be interesting
Speaker 2: to see if that was a hot potter situation or
Speaker 2: if that is a sustainable thing. But Max Grazman was
Speaker 2: your top Cornferry Tour graduate for the twenty twenty four season,
Speaker 2: and so I think just a lot of a lot
Speaker 2: of action around maxes for twenty twenty five.
Speaker 1: Also, you're going to take take the most.
Speaker 2: The Grazer well, he did, but he also finished runner
Speaker 2: up in the backpack events. Before the playoffs, so he
Speaker 2: earned his way in.
Speaker 1: I agree with Great, I agree with Smart and Grazer
Speaker 1: min take he's been one of the most impressive players
Speaker 1: I think. Like I think one of the things that
Speaker 1: with the new dynamics of the tour is any player
Speaker 1: that plays their way from the corn fairy status up
Speaker 1: to the signature that is there's no faking it because
Speaker 1: you don't get a lot of opportunities. You are maximizing
Speaker 1: your opportunities, and that's that's a super impressive feat.
Speaker 2: But I also think that the twenty twenty six those
Speaker 2: changes that go into effect that year, I think will
Speaker 2: help have more interplay with the corn fairy guys getting
Speaker 2: into the signatures. I think the problem this year you
Speaker 2: saw with you know, KFT grads getting boxed out of
Speaker 2: early season of vans is it also boxes you out
Speaker 2: of the A on the Swing five and the next
Speaker 2: ten and those opportunities getting the signatures. Now with the
Speaker 2: small field sizes, if those guys are getting into Sony
Speaker 2: and they're getting into more West Coast events, it gives
Speaker 2: them more chances to get into the signatures and kind
Speaker 2: of get that immediate boost up. I think early in
Speaker 2: the season guys were kind of boxed out of those.
Speaker 2: So I think two, it'll help the Cornferry Tour players
Speaker 2: if they're playing well start of the year, gett into
Speaker 2: the signatures and maybe make an impact right away.
Speaker 3: And the other part of that, too, Sean, that has
Speaker 3: gone I feel like way under the radar is that
Speaker 3: they've changed the points system starting in twenty twenty six
Speaker 3: to where the difference in points between signature events and
Speaker 3: non signature is going to be narrow or which is
Speaker 3: only going to help the KFT guys more.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I got a on next ten. You know,
Speaker 2: it's the next ten guys who aren't yet exempt in
Speaker 2: the FedEx Cup. I mean, if you get off to
Speaker 2: a great start to the year, you just sit in
Speaker 2: that for all season and get into the signatures. So
Speaker 2: a great star can get you into the signatures if
Speaker 2: you missed out like top fifty FedEx Cup of the
Speaker 2: previous year.
Speaker 1: All right, Joseph, anything else in your notes.
Speaker 3: My notebook is is pretty much empty, Shanna, anything else?
Speaker 3: I know you wanted to take a few shots at
Speaker 3: Matt McCarty.
Speaker 2: I just I watched him play with Ludewig and Luke
Speaker 2: and like it was nine holes. He seemed to struggle
Speaker 2: in the wind. I saw him holding his elbow at
Speaker 2: one point, might have been injured, but you know, it
Speaker 2: was Ludwig and Luke. I think shot sixty four and
Speaker 2: sixty five and he shot seventy five, and he just
Speaker 2: seemed to he just seemed to really to have to
Speaker 2: struggle on the wing. He shot seventy five, and you know,
Speaker 2: the interesting to see that's a guy who obviously won
Speaker 2: three times in the Cornferry Tour. He wanted black Desert,
Speaker 2: which kind of a desert corpse. He's from Scottsdale. Seemed
Speaker 2: pretty pristine conditioned, and I think, you know, the next
Speaker 2: step for him is going to be just learning to
Speaker 2: play in different conditions. When I tweeted about Ludwig and
Speaker 2: Luke and Tron accused me of, you know, slandering Matt
Speaker 2: McCarty by not mentioning him with them, someone replied like, oh,
Speaker 2: diad he hit his stock high draw all day, and
Speaker 2: so I don't know who that was. I don't know
Speaker 2: who it was, but they seemed to they seem to
Speaker 2: know his game. But this is a guy too who
Speaker 2: I think, a guy who won once in his college
Speaker 2: career at Santa Clara and four years later is like
Speaker 2: a top fifty player in the world, a PGA Tour winner.
Speaker 2: So kind of like I said before about guys continue
Speaker 2: to get better, just like some guys might learn new
Speaker 2: short game shots. Like it's a guy who could develop
Speaker 2: some shots. He has a two year exemption to work
Speaker 2: on getting better, which is huge. But I think it
Speaker 2: seems like, you know, he cleaned up in birdie fests
Speaker 2: and and maybe the next step is making a more
Speaker 2: well rounded game for the wind and for different conditions.
Speaker 1: All right, Matt McCarty minute at the end here, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, like again, there there are some domes like
Speaker 1: maybe maybe he's the special the PGA West specialist.
Speaker 2: And I mean you can make a good career winning
Speaker 2: in domes's and then you know, the thing that separates,
Speaker 2: you know, the top ten, top twenty is like we've
Speaker 2: talked about, they can win in any conditions on any
Speaker 2: golf course. And but I mean Matt McCarty with his
Speaker 2: current games put together, you know, great year, he's won
Speaker 2: four times. So yeah, I think just the more shots
Speaker 2: you have, the more opportunities you have, Right, But doesn't
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 1: What my favorite favorite thing about Matt McCarty is no.
Speaker 1: Do you know where he lives full time? Not Scottsdale, Chicago.
Speaker 2: Interesting, he did give my son a ball, so I
Speaker 2: get you know, I fully respect that. I wish him
Speaker 2: nothing but the best. It just seemed like, you know,
Speaker 2: he's made a quick ride.
Speaker 1: I hope your first assignment in twenty twenty five is
Speaker 1: a big Matt McCarty profile.
Speaker 2: Kevin Price actually is on that, so we're fine. But
Speaker 2: this feels like this feels like the Xander. This feels
Speaker 2: like the Xander twenty eighteen thing. It's going to come
Speaker 2: back to bite me.
Speaker 1: Overrated. Xander is overrated you and poor Eth. It was
Speaker 1: a great moment on this pod. You know, I was
Speaker 1: firmly entrenched in Xander stock, and you know it's really
Speaker 1: paid off long term.
Speaker 2: I did hear. One of the more interesting things is
Speaker 2: really the fate of the three time winners on the
Speaker 2: Corn for a Tour, the guys that get that promotion.
Speaker 1: Wes Bryan, Wes Bryan, Who is the guy that got it?
Speaker 1: Who's the all time Corn Fairy Tour player? Got it?
Speaker 1: Flann again? Nick flanagain?
Speaker 2: Right, Nick flanagain? You know, Jason Gore got it? He
Speaker 2: Jason Gord did the same thing that then Matt did.
Speaker 2: He won three times and he won quickly on tour.
Speaker 1: So it's just they have a bad thing to win
Speaker 1: three times.
Speaker 2: I don't think it is. I don't know what you
Speaker 2: would think that winning three times, you know, I don't
Speaker 2: know you would think the result would different for the
Speaker 2: guys who won three times on the corn Ferry Tour.
Speaker 2: But it's not.
Speaker 1: Maybe it shouldn't be the metric that we promote and
Speaker 1: promote players. Then maybe maybe maybe, like I always laugh,
Speaker 1: it's like, you know, like you could just finish like
Speaker 1: second every event corn Ferry Tour, have your car locked
Speaker 1: up by I.
Speaker 2: Think we said four. Why don't you go the other way?
Speaker 2: I think sho have a two win promotion once you
Speaker 2: won twice, Yes, we've locked your card up, let's go.
Speaker 1: I think once you once you lock your card up,
Speaker 1: you should be eligible to play in any tour. You
Speaker 1: should be eligible to play in any tour event and
Speaker 1: be at the bottom of the like to me, they
Speaker 1: should be ahead of one twenty six. You know, once
Speaker 1: you've locked up your tour corn Ferry Tour card or
Speaker 1: your PGA Tour card, to let go once you've once
Speaker 1: you're on the Americas and locked up your PG or
Speaker 1: your corn Fery Tour card, you should be able to
Speaker 1: play up like you should. We should be constantly putting
Speaker 1: people up once they've earned their spot. But you know
Speaker 1: that's that's not my decision.
Speaker 2: So you're a big global currency guy, you just want
Speaker 2: like everyone to use the Euro or.
Speaker 1: I just want free flow. I want free flow. It
Speaker 1: doesn't make sense that we're you know, the PGA Tour
Speaker 1: operates to all these tours and we don't have a
Speaker 1: point system.
Speaker 2: So I actually I do. I think you know, because
Speaker 2: of like we talked about varietying venues I have, I'm
Speaker 2: less in favor of this universal currency that you speak
Speaker 2: of with points. Huh.
Speaker 1: I might have to kick you off the podcast.
Speaker 2: Then I'm curious, why why.
Speaker 1: Aren't you in favor of it?
Speaker 2: Well, I do think you can create a situation too
Speaker 2: where you get someone stuck in kind of a netherland.
Speaker 2: I mean, I do think like with corn Ferry Tour,
Speaker 2: if you graduate as soon as you get two wins,
Speaker 2: then you lock that guy, I guess in order on
Speaker 2: the points list, in order they graduate. So if you
Speaker 2: were the first one up, you just keep that number
Speaker 2: one spot.
Speaker 1: Well, you wouldn't get in every week on.
Speaker 2: Tour, right, But then you then you are you playing
Speaker 2: between both tours. You're playing forty events. That's nobody wants
Speaker 2: to be in.
Speaker 1: I don't have to play.
Speaker 2: You're not gonna turn it. I mean you're not gonna
Speaker 2: turn it down. I think you talked to the guys.
Speaker 2: You mentioned it on the pod with Joseph and Ryan French.
Speaker 2: One of the worst places to be is kind of
Speaker 2: that you're stuck in the autonomous zone or whatever between
Speaker 2: PG Tour and corn Ferry Tour and you're not sure
Speaker 2: which way to go.
Speaker 3: And I think all this would be less of a
Speaker 3: prop them if the KFT had more resources poured into it, probably,
Speaker 3: and then they could those golfers who were on the
Speaker 3: corn Ferry Tour could make a little bit better of
Speaker 3: a living and not be as desperate to get up
Speaker 3: onto the PGA Tour. I agree with you, Andy, though,
Speaker 3: if you've already locked up your PGA Tour card, just
Speaker 3: put them on the PGA Tour as long as they're not,
Speaker 3: to Sean's point, getting stuck between where if you're playing
Speaker 3: on both tours, you're disadvantaging yourself long term. Like, I
Speaker 3: don't think that's the solution, but I don't know. If
Speaker 3: they've already locked up there, they're gonna be one of
Speaker 3: the top twenty on the KFT. Why not give them
Speaker 3: some reps on the PGA Tour.
Speaker 1: I'm I don't know. It just doesn't make any sense
Speaker 1: to me. Why. Like I also don't get why. Like
Speaker 1: if I'm like seventy fifth on the corn Ferry Tour
Speaker 1: and I qualify for the US Open and I finished
Speaker 1: tenth in the or eleventh of the US Open, why
Speaker 1: don't get points? What do they get now?
Speaker 2: They changed it. I don't know the exact but you
Speaker 2: get points.
Speaker 1: You get points. Good it should be if if I
Speaker 1: do that and I qualify for a tour event, I
Speaker 1: should get them. Like what that doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 1: If I play a tour and I don't get points.
Speaker 3: You should never play well in a tour event and
Speaker 3: that hurts you. Yeah, like that that doesn't make a.
Speaker 1: Lot of It makes no sense whatsoever.
Speaker 2: At some point, at some point you got to pick that.
Speaker 2: You know you're on the tour you're on.
Speaker 4: I don't know it's the same organization.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I mean, it's not like I mean in
Speaker 2: Major League Baseball, if you hit four hundred of triple a,
Speaker 2: like you get called up, but you're hitting four hundred
Speaker 2: of triple a doesn't help you at all. It gets
Speaker 2: you called up, but it doesn't put out towards your stats.
Speaker 2: In Major League that's not But if you get.
Speaker 1: Called out, if you get called up for a for
Speaker 1: an injury, so you get that what that cup of
Speaker 1: coffee and you hit three homers in a week, that
Speaker 1: are going to keep you up there.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's the other direction.
Speaker 2: Right, I think, Yeah, I'm advocating for the guys, Like
Speaker 2: it's kind of like the PGA Tour. You that that
Speaker 2: guy gets status for the year they turned pro in June,
Speaker 2: and they had status also over the following year. So
Speaker 2: like if you won twice on the corn Ferry Tour,
Speaker 2: you would go up to the PGA Tour and you'd
Speaker 2: also have your status for all of the next year.
Speaker 2: I think what I that you sometimes positive that I'm
Speaker 2: against is like this free flow where you're going back
Speaker 2: and forth relegated every four weeks. That's chaos.
Speaker 1: That's the that's the thousand person tour, that's the thousand
Speaker 1: person Tour, but.
Speaker 2: You've you've added in the season relegation of like chaos
Speaker 2: and guys don't know where they're going.
Speaker 1: And that's great. Well, if you're top player, you know
Speaker 1: where you're going. Sure, it's the only.
Speaker 2: Person if you're a guy that you know. Let's say,
Speaker 2: let's say some the number two player for the Corn
Speaker 2: Verry Tour misses like fource rate cuts to start his year.
Speaker 2: You're just giving up on his down back down to
Speaker 2: the Corn Forverry Tour. That's I mean, golf doesn't work
Speaker 2: that way. I don't know.
Speaker 1: It's just back down, get hot, stay hot, play your
Speaker 1: way up, and then eventually you're safe and then you
Speaker 1: get to set your schedule and then you better keep playing.
Speaker 1: Well should be just cut throat as hell.
Speaker 2: But I don't know, I don't agree with that. I
Speaker 2: think that's case.
Speaker 1: I think if you took out, if you took out
Speaker 1: the players, if you if you ran this like any
Speaker 1: other sport, which pretty much minimize player concerns, like they
Speaker 1: are the smallest bargaining chip at the table, like they
Speaker 1: if you if you took it, you would go to
Speaker 1: tour that just like had like relegations, like probably the
Speaker 1: most compelling thing about golf outside of winning in majors.
Speaker 2: I agree, but but you got to give a guy. Okay,
Speaker 2: I'm all four calling guys up, Like if they excel
Speaker 2: right around the corner for a tour, let's give them
Speaker 2: a chance call him up. But the immediate like, at
Speaker 2: some point if a guy earned his tour card, you
Speaker 2: gotta give a fair shake. You can't just threaten him
Speaker 2: with relegation, like four weeks in, like hey, man, Freut's
Speaker 2: and that's kind of what the reshoff, Like they have
Speaker 2: the reshuffle where like you move them down the priority
Speaker 2: rank and you still have a tour card.
Speaker 1: I think you're misunderstanding what I want. Everybody gets a
Speaker 1: fair shake once they earn their spot, but.
Speaker 2: You want them down after like five like, hey five,
Speaker 2: betters Man, that's that's not a fair shake.
Speaker 1: Well, you could come up and then you could go
Speaker 1: back down, and you could play well and you come
Speaker 1: right back up.
Speaker 2: And that's chaos. But then how do you plan where
Speaker 2: they play the next season?
Speaker 1: Well, they that you planning is a privilege of extra
Speaker 1: of great play.
Speaker 2: Mostly with you on this one, Sean, just chaos, absolute chaos.
Speaker 1: All right, Sean, do you have anything you're working on
Speaker 1: or are you just kind of planning out next year?
Speaker 2: I'm focused, my folks are. Now is a big We're
Speaker 2: doing a documentary on Scotti Scheffler's twenty twenty four season.
Speaker 2: It was pretty good. Wow, So we felt like we
Speaker 2: should I felt like we should memorialize it. So I'm
Speaker 2: a filmmaker now, Oh look at you. I mean, with
Speaker 2: a lot of support from great people.
Speaker 1: Do you get a new title?
Speaker 2: I don't think so.
Speaker 1: You should be a filmmaker filming. What is it now?
Speaker 1: Is it lead writer? Still, lead, Comma editorial, lead, Comma editorial, lead,
Speaker 1: Comma editorial, Comma filmmaker.
Speaker 2: I guess lead is a yeah. Leads a fairly common
Speaker 2: title in the biz. So then we have a lot
Speaker 2: of leads here, great people, and then you have Calma
Speaker 2: whatever their department is.
Speaker 1: I'm the words man, all right, and filmmaker for this pod.
Speaker 1: We'll at least give you a filmmaker and your title too.
Speaker 2: All right.
Speaker 1: Thank you Sean for all of your time. Thank you
Speaker 1: for you know. I appreciate people poking holes and my ideas,
Speaker 1: calling my bullshit.
Speaker 2: I'm glad. I'm glad that you're willing to listen to
Speaker 2: constructive criticism.
Speaker 1: Oh, I welcome it. I like people telling me I
Speaker 1: am an idiot. That's uh, it's a it's a refreshing thing.
Speaker 2: I don't think I called you an idiot. I just
Speaker 2: had a disagree.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the world. World spins around, on on on
Speaker 1: Uh congenial Uh disagreements. Is that the right word?
Speaker 2: I use the right works there, not congealed. Congealed disagreement
Speaker 2: would be the wrong word.
Speaker 1: All right, Sean, thank you, Joseph, thank you for your time.
Speaker 1: That's your that's your fall. Wrap up there and we'll
Speaker 1: be back after the holidays with a new episode. Thank
Speaker 1: you to PJ. Clark for editing and producing this podcast. Uh,
Speaker 1: if you're looking to shop, we've got Black Friday deals
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