WEBVTT - Opus Dei: A Real Conspiracy (with Gareth Gore) - Part Two 0:00:15.082 --> 0:00:16.881 John and I are on break now who are on 0:00:16.962 --> 0:00:20.482 a secret mission, and this before all new Mission Implausible 0:00:20.521 --> 0:00:23.482 episodes come out this fall. But for now, we'll bring 0:00:23.521 --> 0:00:26.721 you one of our favorite past episodes and we'll soon 0:00:26.802 --> 0:00:29.202 be launching our YouTube channel. See you there. 0:00:31.202 --> 0:00:34.321 I'm John Cipher and I'm Jerry O'Shea. I was a 0:00:34.322 --> 0:00:37.682 CIA officer stationed around the world in high threat posts 0:00:37.682 --> 0:00:39.402 in Europe, Russia, and in Asia. 0:00:39.442 --> 0:00:42.762 And I served in Africa, Asia, Europe, the Middle East and. 0:00:42.762 --> 0:00:43.482 In war zones. 0:00:43.842 --> 0:00:47.681 We sometimes created conspiracies to deceive our adversaries. 0:00:47.922 --> 0:00:51.602 Now we're going to use our expertise to deconstruct conspiracy 0:00:51.641 --> 0:00:53.402 theories large and small. 0:00:53.682 --> 0:00:54.562 Could they be true? 0:00:54.842 --> 0:00:56.122 Or are we being manipulated? 0:00:56.642 --> 0:00:58.722 This is Mission Implausible. 0:01:02.081 --> 0:01:04.962 This is part two of our conversation with Gareth Gore. 0:01:05.362 --> 0:01:08.842 Gareth is a financial journalist who's written the book Opus, 0:01:09.162 --> 0:01:12.362 The Cult of Dark Money, human trafficking, and right wing 0:01:12.482 --> 0:01:16.442 conspiracy inside the Catholic Church. He's been telling us about 0:01:16.442 --> 0:01:22.762 the secretive Catholic sect known as Opus Day. I have 0:01:22.801 --> 0:01:25.762 a question, so we all are perceiving this as a 0:01:25.801 --> 0:01:29.081 somewhat cult like structure. I certainly felt it was a 0:01:29.122 --> 0:01:32.042 cult when I was there. But usually a cult is 0:01:32.402 --> 0:01:35.481 got one figurehead who's benefiting from it, or a family 0:01:35.562 --> 0:01:38.681 that's benefiting from it. These founders are long since deead. 0:01:38.801 --> 0:01:41.322 Who are the beneficiaries? Now, who's the head of this? 0:01:41.602 --> 0:01:44.002 I mean there is a head of Opus stay in 0:01:44.122 --> 0:01:47.762 Rome who runs the entire thing. But like many cults, 0:01:48.082 --> 0:01:51.522 there's a worship of the founder. So everything that the 0:01:51.602 --> 0:01:56.522 founder said and wrote down is now taken as gospel. 0:01:56.762 --> 0:02:00.442 But yes, I mean in effect Escrevard, this priest who's 0:02:00.482 --> 0:02:03.442 been dead since nineteen seventy five, in fact, he's still 0:02:03.442 --> 0:02:07.402 in charge. I mean, there are all kinds of horrendous 0:02:07.522 --> 0:02:10.762 and abusive practices that he wrote down, that he stipulated 0:02:10.882 --> 0:02:14.282 in his writings, and I think the modern organization realizes 0:02:14.322 --> 0:02:17.962 that many of these practices had no place in society 0:02:18.242 --> 0:02:21.322 and in fact are really damaging to the reputation of 0:02:21.402 --> 0:02:25.442 Opus's day globally. Because of this cold like worship of 0:02:25.482 --> 0:02:28.882 the founder, they're unable to question anything he said or did. 0:02:28.922 --> 0:02:33.282 And recently it was discovered that Olpus's day has allegedly 0:02:33.322 --> 0:02:37.001 been involved in the trafficking of young girls. From recruiting 0:02:37.002 --> 0:02:40.722 these girls in places like Argentina and Algeria, the Philippines 0:02:41.242 --> 0:02:46.562 and entrapping them in the organization as effectively unpaid servants 0:02:46.602 --> 0:02:50.122 for the elite and the organization and federal prosecutors in 0:02:50.242 --> 0:02:55.122 Argentina have recently formally accused the organization of engaging in 0:02:55.242 --> 0:02:58.602 human trafficking and serious labor abuses, and there's going to 0:02:58.602 --> 0:03:01.482 be trial this year or next with four OPS Day 0:03:01.482 --> 0:03:05.482 priests standing trial. I think the organization realizes that those 0:03:05.561 --> 0:03:09.242 practices have no place in today's society, but they're unable 0:03:09.282 --> 0:03:12.722 to stop doing it because that's what the founders said 0:03:13.002 --> 0:03:15.602 should be done. So to answer your question, he's dead, 0:03:15.681 --> 0:03:20.522 but Scrivarre is still in charge. His message of infiltrating 0:03:20.561 --> 0:03:25.002 society at the very top is what drives Opus Day 0:03:25.242 --> 0:03:26.242 still to this day. 0:03:26.522 --> 0:03:30.082 We've mentioned that Opus Day seems to have people in 0:03:30.202 --> 0:03:33.281 senior positions in Washington been the right wing in the 0:03:33.282 --> 0:03:36.442 Supreme Court and Leonard Leo and Bill Bara in this 0:03:36.882 --> 0:03:39.002 sort of thing. I think we're suggesting they may have 0:03:39.042 --> 0:03:41.842 some undue influence in right wing politics, but also in 0:03:41.882 --> 0:03:47.802 our politics. Evangelical Protestants seem to be unusually supportive of 0:03:48.282 --> 0:03:50.362 the right wing in the United States. It would seem 0:03:50.402 --> 0:03:53.202 that they would be natural not enemies, but competitors. Is 0:03:53.202 --> 0:03:57.242 there something about Opus day in that it's your private 0:03:57.282 --> 0:03:59.642 relationship with God or something that makes it similar to 0:03:59.802 --> 0:04:03.322 evangelical Protestantism, or what's the relationship there, if any. 0:04:03.762 --> 0:04:05.722 Just before I answered that, I think I should be 0:04:05.762 --> 0:04:08.242 clear as well that there's no implication in my book 0:04:08.282 --> 0:04:11.882 call in anything. I'm saying that this head of Opus, 0:04:11.962 --> 0:04:15.282 Dane Realm that he sat the issuing orders out to 0:04:15.362 --> 0:04:18.842 Learned Leo or the Supreme Court justices or whatever. That's 0:04:18.882 --> 0:04:21.362 not the way it works. It's not that kind of conspiracy. 0:04:21.722 --> 0:04:28.162 The conspiracy is simply to recruit from the elite of 0:04:28.202 --> 0:04:32.242 society and have the right people in positions of power 0:04:32.642 --> 0:04:36.322 so that we can push forward this reactionary agenda and 0:04:36.562 --> 0:04:40.522 rip up any kind of progressive advances. That's the conspiracy. 0:04:41.162 --> 0:04:43.882 These people not being told specifically what to do. You 0:04:43.882 --> 0:04:46.322 need to vote this way, or you need to push 0:04:46.402 --> 0:04:49.402 this It's about creating the right conditions. It's about creating 0:04:49.402 --> 0:04:52.042 a network and having the right people rise up and 0:04:52.082 --> 0:04:56.482 to help each other out to advance this cause. And now, 0:04:56.522 --> 0:04:58.802 to get back to your question, from time to time 0:04:59.322 --> 0:05:04.042 they get into bed with like minded groups and individuals 0:05:04.082 --> 0:05:06.682 who have nothing to do with Opus Day and who 0:05:06.722 --> 0:05:08.522 have nothing to do with even with the Catholic Church. 0:05:09.122 --> 0:05:11.882 At one stage in the late two thousands, the kind 0:05:11.922 --> 0:05:15.762 of senior Upper Stay members in the US obsessed with 0:05:16.402 --> 0:05:21.282 the idea of stopping same sex marriage from going into law, 0:05:21.962 --> 0:05:25.482 and so OPA Stay basically teamed up with the Mormon 0:05:25.562 --> 0:05:31.682 Church to push to get the called Proposition eight onto 0:05:31.682 --> 0:05:34.522 the ballot in California, which was a major step to 0:05:34.802 --> 0:05:40.242 slowing down the ratification of same sex marriage. Ultimately, they failed, 0:05:40.282 --> 0:05:42.922 and people in the US can now have same sex unions. 0:05:42.962 --> 0:05:45.242 But yeah, I mean, you know, that's one example of 0:05:45.282 --> 0:05:49.322 them teeming up with like minded groups which fall outside 0:05:49.362 --> 0:05:51.442 of the natural comfort zone. 0:05:51.562 --> 0:05:53.202 Good did you grow up in the Catholic Church. 0:05:53.522 --> 0:05:53.882 I did. 0:05:53.962 --> 0:05:55.082 I'm just wondering if you did. 0:05:55.642 --> 0:05:57.962 No, I didn't. I was raised, as I guess, a 0:05:58.042 --> 0:06:00.722 Cultural Church of England member. I went to a church 0:06:00.722 --> 0:06:03.922 and England school. We said the Lord's Prayer every morning, 0:06:03.962 --> 0:06:07.082 and we prayed and we sang hymns. But I don't 0:06:07.082 --> 0:06:08.322 think I really believed in of it. 0:06:08.802 --> 0:06:10.922 I did grow up Caretholic, not that oh PA state 0:06:11.002 --> 0:06:14.162 the Dominicans, but within the Catholic Church are the elements 0:06:14.162 --> 0:06:17.642 of the Catholic Church. We like to talk about this day, right, 0:06:17.682 --> 0:06:19.402 and we snicker about them. 0:06:19.562 --> 0:06:22.682 So this again goes back to the cult like worship 0:06:22.722 --> 0:06:25.162 of the founder. So the founder, I think was a 0:06:25.202 --> 0:06:28.002 bit of an unstable individual, as many of these cult 0:06:28.082 --> 0:06:31.882 leaders are. His father had fallen into bankruptcy, if the 0:06:31.922 --> 0:06:34.322 family had fallen on hard times, his father had died, 0:06:34.682 --> 0:06:36.202 and he is the eldest son. It was all on 0:06:36.242 --> 0:06:39.242 his shoulders to lift family back to the buddh all 0:06:39.322 --> 0:06:42.002 days and being rich and wealthy again. And so I 0:06:42.042 --> 0:06:44.482 think he was carrying around quite a little burden and 0:06:44.482 --> 0:06:47.442 he was struggling. But his way he over ate, the 0:06:47.442 --> 0:06:48.882 way that he dealt with the things a lot of 0:06:48.922 --> 0:06:54.082 his problems was to basically punish himself, to punish his body. 0:06:54.082 --> 0:06:57.602 And this is something that people self mutilation is not 0:06:57.722 --> 0:07:01.842 that far from self flagellation, which is what's happening here. 0:07:02.122 --> 0:07:05.602 I'm not a psychologist or psychiatrist, and but my interpretation 0:07:05.722 --> 0:07:07.562 is that this is the way that he dealt with 0:07:07.562 --> 0:07:10.482 his problems. So he would do it into two ways. 0:07:10.482 --> 0:07:12.642 And you mentioned one of them, the scyllis, which is 0:07:12.642 --> 0:07:16.442 basically like a barbed wire. Often usually you were around 0:07:16.522 --> 0:07:18.642 around the thigh, but couldn't be used to You can 0:07:18.642 --> 0:07:20.322 wear it around other parts of the body as well, 0:07:20.362 --> 0:07:22.642 and it's made up of these kind of like claws 0:07:22.642 --> 0:07:25.682 which dig into the skin. The idea is that it's 0:07:25.722 --> 0:07:29.922 meant to be very uncomfortable. It's that breaks the skin maybe, 0:07:30.082 --> 0:07:32.242 but it's just it makes it uncomfortable to sit or 0:07:32.282 --> 0:07:34.882 to do anything, and it's meant to remind you of 0:07:34.922 --> 0:07:37.962 the suffering of Christ. So that the Founder was a 0:07:38.002 --> 0:07:40.682 big wearer of the scillys. He would wear at four 0:07:40.722 --> 0:07:44.722 hours on end, sometimes around his thigh, often around his waist, 0:07:44.962 --> 0:07:48.002 which kind of goes back to his discomfort around his 0:07:48.082 --> 0:07:52.642 weight and his issues around weight. But he also used 0:07:52.682 --> 0:07:54.482 to use this other thing called the discipline, which is 0:07:54.802 --> 0:07:58.362 a whip. Now, a normal discipline would be made of 0:07:58.802 --> 0:08:01.482 kind of cord or rope, and maybe you'd have kind 0:08:01.482 --> 0:08:03.482 of three lashes and you'd take off your shirt and 0:08:03.522 --> 0:08:06.642 you would hit yourself over the back. And again the 0:08:06.722 --> 0:08:09.002 idea is that it's to remind you of the suffering 0:08:09.042 --> 0:08:11.842 of Christ. But for it's the Founder of OBErs Day, 0:08:12.282 --> 0:08:15.282 that wasn't enough. He pimped up his discipline so he 0:08:15.322 --> 0:08:19.042 would add razor blades to the rope so that when 0:08:19.042 --> 0:08:23.802 he whipped himself he would cut into his back, and 0:08:24.402 --> 0:08:27.762 those around him were worried about his psychological state. His 0:08:27.882 --> 0:08:31.042 mother and his priest even begged him to stop doing this. 0:08:31.482 --> 0:08:34.202 The walls would be spattered with blood after he'd had 0:08:34.242 --> 0:08:41.642 these sessions, but Escrevar made it compulsory for the numery members, 0:08:41.642 --> 0:08:44.082 the celibate members of Opus Day, the kind of the 0:08:44.122 --> 0:08:47.442 elite members of OPA's day, to continue this practice. So 0:08:47.442 --> 0:08:50.602 many of the teachers were at the school in the 0:08:50.642 --> 0:08:53.682 Heights where John attended. Many of those teachers would have 0:08:53.762 --> 0:08:58.002 been numery members celibate members of Opus Day, and they 0:08:58.002 --> 0:09:01.362 are still to this day expected to do those two 0:09:01.402 --> 0:09:04.122 forms of corporal multification. So then they're expected to wor 0:09:04.202 --> 0:09:07.282 the sybis for two hours a day, you're in the afternoons, 0:09:07.802 --> 0:09:10.962 and they're expected to whip themselves using the discipline, presumably 0:09:11.002 --> 0:09:13.442 without the razor blades, for a period, usually on a 0:09:13.442 --> 0:09:16.682 Saturday afternoon. That's still ongoing to this day. And those 0:09:16.722 --> 0:09:19.002 are the kind of the elite members, the normal members, 0:09:19.482 --> 0:09:22.682 the supernomeries, the people that live out in the innormal 0:09:22.762 --> 0:09:25.402 homes with kids or whatever. They've been couraged to do. 0:09:25.442 --> 0:09:28.002 These things too, but there's not the same level of 0:09:28.042 --> 0:09:31.122 expectation or control to ensure they do it. But yeah, 0:09:31.162 --> 0:09:33.922 this is very much still alive and well within the organization. 0:09:34.442 --> 0:09:37.842 Going to the conspiracy aspect of this show, the word 0:09:37.882 --> 0:09:41.242 that is most commonly associated with Opus Day is secretive. 0:09:41.762 --> 0:09:45.002 Why be secretive? Why not be open about what you 0:09:45.162 --> 0:09:48.242 believe and what you're trying to accomplish in this world 0:09:48.282 --> 0:09:49.602 like other organizations are. 0:09:49.762 --> 0:09:52.322 Again, it always comes back to the founder. He was 0:09:52.362 --> 0:09:56.922 a conspiracy theorist himself. He realized that he was building 0:09:57.042 --> 0:09:59.762 this army and he saw it as an army. He 0:09:59.882 --> 0:10:02.682 described it in his writings as an army. He knew 0:10:02.682 --> 0:10:05.842 he was building this secret army in a hostile environment, 0:10:05.922 --> 0:10:09.322 so it made sense to him to keep it flanderstin. Yeah, 0:10:09.482 --> 0:10:14.282 like he specifically told his members to not disclose their 0:10:14.322 --> 0:10:17.402 membership to anyone else, to even their their friends or family. 0:10:17.642 --> 0:10:19.962 He was obsessed with the idea of we need to 0:10:20.082 --> 0:10:22.842 keep this below the radar because there are enemies of 0:10:22.922 --> 0:10:27.362 Christ add and as well as infiltrating the upper echelons 0:10:27.402 --> 0:10:30.802 of society, he also tasked his followers with and I 0:10:30.802 --> 0:10:34.042 guess u cia guys will enjoy this but he tasked 0:10:34.082 --> 0:10:37.802 them specifically with collecting information on the enemies of Christ. 0:10:38.082 --> 0:10:41.802 He saw this as a battle and the open stain membership. 0:10:42.402 --> 0:10:45.562 It was a gorilla army that would infiltrate society and 0:10:45.642 --> 0:10:48.522 use their positions there to one push through the agenda, 0:10:48.602 --> 0:10:51.602 but two also to collect information on the enemies out 0:10:51.642 --> 0:10:53.922 there and people that might be that might stop them 0:10:53.962 --> 0:10:57.082 from pushing through this throat. Yes, these documents were written 0:10:57.122 --> 0:10:59.762 in the nineteen thirties. These documents are held up as 0:11:00.002 --> 0:11:03.562 like tablets that Nausi's brought down from the mountain. This 0:11:03.682 --> 0:11:06.842 is still the way the organization thinks about itself and 0:11:06.882 --> 0:11:10.522 about its membership today in the twenty first century. 0:11:11.282 --> 0:11:13.282 Just hold on for a short break can be read back. 0:11:22.882 --> 0:11:26.362 So Gith, no discussion of Opustay is complete without at 0:11:26.442 --> 0:11:30.162 least touching on Reverend John McCluskey, right. He was the 0:11:30.242 --> 0:11:34.682 American sort of patron of Opus day, bringing it into 0:11:34.682 --> 0:11:39.242 the US, building it up. Charismitic guy. He converted New 0:11:39.282 --> 0:11:42.962 Gingrich and Larry Kudlow and Senator Sam brown Beck and 0:11:43.202 --> 0:11:45.682 a number of other people. A huge money raiser, and 0:11:45.802 --> 0:11:50.282 in the end he ended up with charges of sexual exploitation. 0:11:50.882 --> 0:11:53.642 I think a payout of a million dollars was made 0:11:53.722 --> 0:11:56.082 to a number of young women. I wonder if you 0:11:56.122 --> 0:12:00.642 could bring us through some of the charges of sexual assault, 0:12:00.682 --> 0:12:04.242 but of the charges against against McCluskey and OPUS Day 0:12:04.242 --> 0:12:06.202 in general, you're absolutely. 0:12:05.802 --> 0:12:07.522 Watch and describing as sexual assault. 0:12:07.602 --> 0:12:09.322 So yes, in. 0:12:09.202 --> 0:12:13.202 The early two thousands, he groped one of the women 0:12:13.282 --> 0:12:16.082 who came to him for the spirituals and olpusta member 0:12:16.122 --> 0:12:21.602 in fact, and she reported the issue to OPU Stay 0:12:22.082 --> 0:12:25.522 and they did nothing, and she threatened to sue. And 0:12:26.202 --> 0:12:29.642 when she threatened to sue, Opus Stay decided to smuggle 0:12:29.642 --> 0:12:32.082 this guy out of the country. They basically sent him 0:12:32.082 --> 0:12:34.242 off to England to live in the OLPAH Stay Center 0:12:34.442 --> 0:12:37.362 in London where he couldn't be served with papers or 0:12:37.442 --> 0:12:40.282 arrested or whatever. And there was a good reason for that, 0:12:40.322 --> 0:12:43.442 and that was because mc mccoskey had become the face 0:12:43.762 --> 0:12:46.562 of OLPUS Day in Washington, d C. And as you say, 0:12:46.602 --> 0:12:53.442 he'd recruited vast numbers of the Conservative Republican elite to 0:12:53.722 --> 0:12:56.162 OPA Stay. He'd enticed all of these people into the 0:12:56.162 --> 0:12:58.562 OLPAH Stay network. People looked up to him. He was 0:12:58.682 --> 0:13:01.162 frequently on places like meet the press. He was the 0:13:01.202 --> 0:13:04.482 kind of the go to guy in central Washington. He 0:13:04.562 --> 0:13:07.922 was confessor to all of these powerful people. The last 0:13:07.962 --> 0:13:10.602 thing Olpasta needed was for him to be embroiled in 0:13:10.642 --> 0:13:14.281 this sex gangle, and so they shipped him off to England. Meanwhile, 0:13:14.522 --> 0:13:17.962 they agreed pay off with this woman, I guess got 0:13:17.962 --> 0:13:20.282 her to sign a non disclosure agreement. They paid her 0:13:20.282 --> 0:13:23.682 almost a million dollars. The whole story went away, although 0:13:23.642 --> 0:13:25.362 it was part of the agreement. He was no longer 0:13:25.402 --> 0:13:27.442 allowed to be back in DC, so he went off 0:13:27.522 --> 0:13:29.521 initially to Chicago, but then they shipped him out to 0:13:29.562 --> 0:13:33.562 Silicon Valley to recruit out there in Silicon Valley. And 0:13:33.762 --> 0:13:36.522 this whole thing went away until a few years later 0:13:37.042 --> 0:13:40.442 and the woman she'd understood as part of the agreement 0:13:40.442 --> 0:13:42.362 with elpus Day that he would no longer be allowed 0:13:42.402 --> 0:13:45.362 to go out and preach and he wouldn't be allowed 0:13:45.402 --> 0:13:48.881 to be alone with women, And she discovered that he 0:13:49.002 --> 0:13:51.362 was being allowed to carry he was carrying on doing 0:13:51.402 --> 0:13:54.922 that in his ministry, and so she decided to basically 0:13:54.962 --> 0:13:59.362 go public and to expose what had happened. So, yeah, 0:13:59.642 --> 0:14:03.642 are there influential people in other places around the world. Oh, absolutely, absolutely, 0:14:03.762 --> 0:14:07.442 almost every word that elpas Day operates, it's managed to penetrate, 0:14:07.482 --> 0:14:09.962 to a greater or lesser extent, the kind of elite 0:14:09.962 --> 0:14:14.162 of society. Going back to the sixties and seventies. There 0:14:14.162 --> 0:14:16.962 are all kinds of rumors that they were involved in 0:14:17.002 --> 0:14:20.562 the WHO in seventy five in Chile. They were kind 0:14:20.602 --> 0:14:25.722 of part of the efforts to destabilize the Allende government 0:14:25.962 --> 0:14:30.562 in the early seventies. There these days in places like Poland, Spain, 0:14:30.682 --> 0:14:34.082 of course, they're extremely influential Hungary. I understand that they've 0:14:34.122 --> 0:14:37.162 got pretty big influence there as well. Any places like 0:14:37.242 --> 0:14:41.242 the Philippines, I think they over the years have really 0:14:41.642 --> 0:14:46.402 managed again to penetrate the kind of the Filipino political elite. 0:14:46.202 --> 0:14:48.522 One thing listeners should realize is that this is not 0:14:48.642 --> 0:14:52.322 no ordinary organization. If you're interested in joining up, as 0:14:52.362 --> 0:14:54.362 Dave you think, you know, if you think it's a 0:14:54.402 --> 0:14:56.682 great organization you want to sign up, you can't just 0:14:56.722 --> 0:14:59.642 go on to the website and punching your details and 0:15:00.122 --> 0:15:03.202 get a membership card posted through the post. It's not 0:15:03.322 --> 0:15:08.002 possible to request membership. You have to be invited in 0:15:08.642 --> 0:15:13.082 so they decide who they want to be part of 0:15:13.122 --> 0:15:17.202 the organization and they go after them, they caught them, 0:15:17.282 --> 0:15:22.602 they groomed them, and they pushed them into membership. And 0:15:22.642 --> 0:15:24.362 again that tells you what you need to know. This 0:15:24.442 --> 0:15:28.442 is it's not a club that's open to anyone. It's 0:15:28.442 --> 0:15:32.682 a club specifically for targeted individuals who are in a 0:15:32.722 --> 0:15:34.642 position to shape society. 0:15:35.002 --> 0:15:38.802 Guys, you're a financial investigator and journalists, you talk about 0:15:38.962 --> 0:15:42.482 others either conspiracy or conspiracy theories in the financial industry. 0:15:42.562 --> 0:15:45.962 As you guys will now, behind every kind of conspiracy, 0:15:45.962 --> 0:15:50.402 you need money. And so banks throughout their history have 0:15:50.962 --> 0:15:54.482 been at the forefront of making stuff happen around the world. 0:15:54.882 --> 0:15:58.682 Whenever there's a coop or destabilization efforts or whatever they 0:15:58.722 --> 0:16:00.922 might be around the world, the money's going to come 0:16:00.962 --> 0:16:02.722 from somewhere. I mean, we were just talking before we 0:16:02.762 --> 0:16:07.082 started recording about whole BCCI scandal the late eighties, knowing 0:16:07.162 --> 0:16:10.842 nineties what people discovered that this bank had been used 0:16:10.922 --> 0:16:14.602 to funnel money to the Taliban, to pakistanis into all 0:16:14.602 --> 0:16:17.282 over the place. There's a great book called Billion Dollar Whale, 0:16:17.322 --> 0:16:21.162 which is about a huge scandal in Malaysia where billions 0:16:21.242 --> 0:16:23.722 were siphoned by this guy and some of the money 0:16:23.762 --> 0:16:25.922 was used to finance the film The Wolf of Wall 0:16:25.922 --> 0:16:26.482 for Ball three. 0:16:26.562 --> 0:16:31.162 So opusta a it he has goals? What are its 0:16:31.202 --> 0:16:33.602 goals through the US? Because you know, we see Project 0:16:33.602 --> 0:16:36.362 twenty twenty five which has a huge amount of influence 0:16:36.362 --> 0:16:39.562 of opus Sta people leading it and guiding it forward. 0:16:40.082 --> 0:16:43.602 So what would a future US look like if opus 0:16:43.602 --> 0:16:45.202 Stay gets its way. 0:16:45.442 --> 0:16:48.682 I don't think Opista has any specific goals. Its goals 0:16:48.762 --> 0:16:52.442 kind of shift and change according to whatever's happening. So 0:16:52.482 --> 0:16:55.162 in the early nineteen thirties in Spain, for example, I 0:16:55.202 --> 0:16:57.482 guess the goal would have been the elimination of the 0:16:57.482 --> 0:17:00.642 Communists and the Masons and the Jews, and the kind 0:17:00.682 --> 0:17:04.602 of the re establishment of the church's proper place in society. 0:17:04.321 --> 0:17:07.282 Nick Church great again, but also make. 0:17:07.561 --> 0:17:10.681 Conservative reading of the Catholic faith great again. So I 0:17:10.722 --> 0:17:13.561 think these days, obviously there's the kind of hot button 0:17:13.561 --> 0:17:17.242 issues like abortion and same sex marriage and contraception and 0:17:17.282 --> 0:17:20.322 all that kind of thing. But I think really the 0:17:20.362 --> 0:17:24.321 goal for opus day is to have is what we 0:17:24.322 --> 0:17:27.482 were saying Earlieres, is to have the right hinder people, 0:17:27.762 --> 0:17:31.641 our kind of people in positions of power making the 0:17:31.722 --> 0:17:37.081 right decisions, the right moral Catholic decisions about these things, 0:17:37.482 --> 0:17:41.682 and so there's no kind of policy agenda. It's about 0:17:41.962 --> 0:17:45.802 creating the right conditions. It's about creating this network and 0:17:46.162 --> 0:17:50.402 feeding this network with conservative Catholic doctrine, and then having 0:17:50.482 --> 0:17:53.601 those people go out and make the right decisions for 0:17:53.642 --> 0:17:57.682 themselves based on the reading of the Bible. I think 0:17:57.882 --> 0:18:00.162 that's the goal. Yeah, I think it's in a good 0:18:00.202 --> 0:18:03.482 position to do that following the last election, as you 0:18:03.522 --> 0:18:07.242 were saying. Kevin Roberts, the president of the Heritage Foundation, 0:18:07.362 --> 0:18:10.922 the Architective Project twenty twenty five, this blueprint for a 0:18:10.962 --> 0:18:14.762 second Trump administration. He's a regular at the OLPA Stay 0:18:15.322 --> 0:18:18.922 Center in Central Washington. He gets his spiritual guidance from 0:18:18.962 --> 0:18:21.361 an open state priest, and you can be rest assured 0:18:21.362 --> 0:18:23.601 that OPU Stay's pretty happy with most of the agenda 0:18:23.602 --> 0:18:26.922 that he's going to be pushing. In the last Trump administration, 0:18:27.202 --> 0:18:29.842 I think there were five members of the cabinets who 0:18:29.882 --> 0:18:33.722 were closely allied to OPA Stay. I wouldn't be surprised 0:18:33.722 --> 0:18:36.162 to see a similar number, if not more, in the second. 0:18:36.562 --> 0:18:40.402 In the second administration, you might assume, Okay, they don't 0:18:40.402 --> 0:18:42.642 really believe in these particular policies. 0:18:42.682 --> 0:18:44.841 They're all in it for power. Half of the people 0:18:44.882 --> 0:18:47.002 believe it, and half of the people are seeing it 0:18:47.042 --> 0:18:49.561 as a train that can ride to power. But my 0:18:49.642 --> 0:18:52.962 impression of the people that I was surrounded with was no, 0:18:53.082 --> 0:18:57.442 they're doing this because they're true believers and they specifically 0:18:57.762 --> 0:18:59.841 see the world as either good or evil. 0:18:59.962 --> 0:19:00.482 Absolutely. 0:19:00.482 --> 0:19:02.682 I think if you listen to some of the speeches 0:19:02.722 --> 0:19:06.522 given given by people like Leonard Leo and by Kevin Roberts, 0:19:06.722 --> 0:19:11.042 it's very clear that they see this as as a war. 0:19:11.242 --> 0:19:14.442 It's us versus them. It's not just a cultural war. 0:19:14.482 --> 0:19:16.562 I mean they they see this as a religious war. 0:19:16.922 --> 0:19:21.081 It's a war against atheism, it's a war against progressivism. 0:19:21.402 --> 0:19:24.682 They truly believe they're on the right side of history 0:19:24.722 --> 0:19:28.082 and that they're following the teachings of Christ. I think 0:19:28.082 --> 0:19:29.602 the Pope might have something to say about it. 0:19:29.602 --> 0:19:31.562 I think there are wide. 0:19:31.962 --> 0:19:35.202 Sections of the Catholic Church, including some of its most 0:19:35.242 --> 0:19:39.202 senior people, who recognize that OPUS Stay is a problem, 0:19:39.882 --> 0:19:43.362 and that many of the practices in OPA Stay, things 0:19:43.402 --> 0:19:46.522 like human trafficking, the targeting and grooming of children, the 0:19:46.522 --> 0:19:49.642 way that it controls and manipulates its members, that these 0:19:49.682 --> 0:19:54.322 are horrendous abuses that need that have no place inside 0:19:54.322 --> 0:19:58.202 the church. So I've got great feedback from sections of 0:19:58.242 --> 0:20:02.682 the church. Opus Day Opusta's reaction has been really interesting. 0:20:03.322 --> 0:20:07.202 It's decided to normally, when in this day and age, 0:20:07.682 --> 0:20:10.882 or maybe in B nine, maybe these days this doesn't happen, 0:20:10.922 --> 0:20:14.842 but certainly in recent history, whenever an organization was presented 0:20:15.002 --> 0:20:20.082 with horrendous scandal or abuse, the reaction is, oh, my goodness, 0:20:20.202 --> 0:20:23.042 this is terrible. We're going to launch a huge investigation. 0:20:23.162 --> 0:20:24.562 We're going to get to the bottom of this. We're 0:20:24.562 --> 0:20:27.682 going to ensure that this is all sorted at, and 0:20:28.042 --> 0:20:29.922 we're gonna absolutely going to get We'll get to the 0:20:29.962 --> 0:20:33.922 bottom of this. Opus Day's reaction to my book and 0:20:33.922 --> 0:20:35.882 to the allegations I make in my book has been 0:20:36.082 --> 0:20:38.682 to stick the finger and fingers in their ears and 0:20:38.682 --> 0:20:39.202 go la la. 0:20:39.122 --> 0:20:40.242 La la, la, la, la la lao. 0:20:40.282 --> 0:20:43.442 They just don't want to engage with the book in 0:20:43.842 --> 0:20:48.762 any way. They have monted this disinformation campaign. They've tried 0:20:48.802 --> 0:20:53.162 to smear me and say basically, I'm a liar. I've 0:20:53.202 --> 0:20:55.602 tricked them into all of these kind of things, all 0:20:55.642 --> 0:21:00.121 completely false. They've created this kind of alternative narrative that 0:21:00.162 --> 0:21:03.122 the book is all about this one Spanish guy and 0:21:03.202 --> 0:21:05.882 it's I'm besmirching his character and it's an assault on 0:21:05.962 --> 0:21:08.762 this poor guy that's not true. This is then exposed 0:21:08.762 --> 0:21:12.362 a about topper s Day. You know, they basically don't 0:21:12.362 --> 0:21:15.042 want to engage with the book because to engage with 0:21:15.082 --> 0:21:18.682 the book would involve them having to answer pretty serious 0:21:18.762 --> 0:21:24.002 questions and would involve them having to admit to decades 0:21:24.442 --> 0:21:27.522 of use and manipulation, and would involve them having to 0:21:27.602 --> 0:21:31.402 admit that many of these practices are ongoing today as well. 0:21:31.642 --> 0:21:32.522 Thank you guys having me on. 0:21:32.562 --> 0:21:33.722 It's been a pleasure. 0:21:34.602 --> 0:21:39.722 Mission Implausible is produced by Adam Davidson, Jerry O'Shea, John Cipher, 0:21:39.962 --> 0:21:44.361 and Jonathan Stern. The associate producer is Rachel Harner. Mission 0:21:44.402 --> 0:21:48.442 Implausible is a production of honorable mention and abominable pictures 0:21:48.482 --> 0:21:49.842 for iHeart Podcasts.