1 00:00:15,082 --> 00:00:16,881 Speaker 1: John and I are on break now who are on 2 00:00:16,962 --> 00:00:20,482 Speaker 1: a secret mission, and this before all new Mission Implausible 3 00:00:20,521 --> 00:00:23,482 Speaker 1: episodes come out this fall. But for now, we'll bring 4 00:00:23,521 --> 00:00:26,721 Speaker 1: you one of our favorite past episodes and we'll soon 5 00:00:26,802 --> 00:00:29,202 Speaker 1: be launching our YouTube channel. See you there. 6 00:00:31,202 --> 00:00:34,321 Speaker 2: I'm John Cipher and I'm Jerry O'Shea. I was a 7 00:00:34,322 --> 00:00:37,682 Speaker 2: CIA officer stationed around the world in high threat posts 8 00:00:37,682 --> 00:00:39,402 Speaker 2: in Europe, Russia, and in Asia. 9 00:00:39,442 --> 00:00:42,762 Speaker 3: And I served in Africa, Asia, Europe, the Middle East and. 10 00:00:42,762 --> 00:00:43,482 Speaker 1: In war zones. 11 00:00:43,842 --> 00:00:47,681 Speaker 3: We sometimes created conspiracies to deceive our adversaries. 12 00:00:47,922 --> 00:00:51,602 Speaker 2: Now we're going to use our expertise to deconstruct conspiracy 13 00:00:51,641 --> 00:00:53,402 Speaker 2: theories large and small. 14 00:00:53,682 --> 00:00:54,562 Speaker 4: Could they be true? 15 00:00:54,842 --> 00:00:56,122 Speaker 3: Or are we being manipulated? 16 00:00:56,642 --> 00:00:58,722 Speaker 2: This is Mission Implausible. 17 00:01:02,081 --> 00:01:04,962 Speaker 4: This is part two of our conversation with Gareth Gore. 18 00:01:05,362 --> 00:01:08,842 Speaker 4: Gareth is a financial journalist who's written the book Opus, 19 00:01:09,162 --> 00:01:12,362 Speaker 4: The Cult of Dark Money, human trafficking, and right wing 20 00:01:12,482 --> 00:01:16,442 Speaker 4: conspiracy inside the Catholic Church. He's been telling us about 21 00:01:16,442 --> 00:01:22,762 Speaker 4: the secretive Catholic sect known as Opus Day. I have 22 00:01:22,801 --> 00:01:25,762 Speaker 4: a question, so we all are perceiving this as a 23 00:01:25,801 --> 00:01:29,081 Speaker 4: somewhat cult like structure. I certainly felt it was a 24 00:01:29,122 --> 00:01:32,042 Speaker 4: cult when I was there. But usually a cult is 25 00:01:32,402 --> 00:01:35,481 Speaker 4: got one figurehead who's benefiting from it, or a family 26 00:01:35,562 --> 00:01:38,681 Speaker 4: that's benefiting from it. These founders are long since deead. 27 00:01:38,801 --> 00:01:41,322 Speaker 4: Who are the beneficiaries? Now, who's the head of this? 28 00:01:41,602 --> 00:01:44,002 Speaker 4: I mean there is a head of Opus stay in 29 00:01:44,122 --> 00:01:47,762 Speaker 4: Rome who runs the entire thing. But like many cults, 30 00:01:48,082 --> 00:01:51,522 Speaker 4: there's a worship of the founder. So everything that the 31 00:01:51,602 --> 00:01:56,522 Speaker 4: founder said and wrote down is now taken as gospel. 32 00:01:56,762 --> 00:02:00,442 Speaker 4: But yes, I mean in effect Escrevard, this priest who's 33 00:02:00,482 --> 00:02:03,442 Speaker 4: been dead since nineteen seventy five, in fact, he's still 34 00:02:03,442 --> 00:02:07,402 Speaker 4: in charge. I mean, there are all kinds of horrendous 35 00:02:07,522 --> 00:02:10,762 Speaker 4: and abusive practices that he wrote down, that he stipulated 36 00:02:10,882 --> 00:02:14,282 Speaker 4: in his writings, and I think the modern organization realizes 37 00:02:14,322 --> 00:02:17,962 Speaker 4: that many of these practices had no place in society 38 00:02:18,242 --> 00:02:21,322 Speaker 4: and in fact are really damaging to the reputation of 39 00:02:21,402 --> 00:02:25,442 Speaker 4: Opus's day globally. Because of this cold like worship of 40 00:02:25,482 --> 00:02:28,882 Speaker 4: the founder, they're unable to question anything he said or did. 41 00:02:28,922 --> 00:02:33,282 Speaker 4: And recently it was discovered that Olpus's day has allegedly 42 00:02:33,322 --> 00:02:37,001 Speaker 4: been involved in the trafficking of young girls. From recruiting 43 00:02:37,002 --> 00:02:40,722 Speaker 4: these girls in places like Argentina and Algeria, the Philippines 44 00:02:41,242 --> 00:02:46,562 Speaker 4: and entrapping them in the organization as effectively unpaid servants 45 00:02:46,602 --> 00:02:50,122 Speaker 4: for the elite and the organization and federal prosecutors in 46 00:02:50,242 --> 00:02:55,122 Speaker 4: Argentina have recently formally accused the organization of engaging in 47 00:02:55,242 --> 00:02:58,602 Speaker 4: human trafficking and serious labor abuses, and there's going to 48 00:02:58,602 --> 00:03:01,482 Speaker 4: be trial this year or next with four OPS Day 49 00:03:01,482 --> 00:03:05,482 Speaker 4: priests standing trial. I think the organization realizes that those 50 00:03:05,561 --> 00:03:09,242 Speaker 4: practices have no place in today's society, but they're unable 51 00:03:09,282 --> 00:03:12,722 Speaker 4: to stop doing it because that's what the founders said 52 00:03:13,002 --> 00:03:15,602 Speaker 4: should be done. So to answer your question, he's dead, 53 00:03:15,681 --> 00:03:20,522 Speaker 4: but Scrivarre is still in charge. His message of infiltrating 54 00:03:20,561 --> 00:03:25,002 Speaker 4: society at the very top is what drives Opus Day 55 00:03:25,242 --> 00:03:26,242 Speaker 4: still to this day. 56 00:03:26,522 --> 00:03:30,082 Speaker 2: We've mentioned that Opus Day seems to have people in 57 00:03:30,202 --> 00:03:33,281 Speaker 2: senior positions in Washington been the right wing in the 58 00:03:33,282 --> 00:03:36,442 Speaker 2: Supreme Court and Leonard Leo and Bill Bara in this 59 00:03:36,882 --> 00:03:39,002 Speaker 2: sort of thing. I think we're suggesting they may have 60 00:03:39,042 --> 00:03:41,842 Speaker 2: some undue influence in right wing politics, but also in 61 00:03:41,882 --> 00:03:47,802 Speaker 2: our politics. Evangelical Protestants seem to be unusually supportive of 62 00:03:48,282 --> 00:03:50,362 Speaker 2: the right wing in the United States. It would seem 63 00:03:50,402 --> 00:03:53,202 Speaker 2: that they would be natural not enemies, but competitors. Is 64 00:03:53,202 --> 00:03:57,242 Speaker 2: there something about Opus day in that it's your private 65 00:03:57,282 --> 00:03:59,642 Speaker 2: relationship with God or something that makes it similar to 66 00:03:59,802 --> 00:04:03,322 Speaker 2: evangelical Protestantism, or what's the relationship there, if any. 67 00:04:03,762 --> 00:04:05,722 Speaker 5: Just before I answered that, I think I should be 68 00:04:05,762 --> 00:04:08,242 Speaker 5: clear as well that there's no implication in my book 69 00:04:08,282 --> 00:04:11,882 Speaker 5: call in anything. I'm saying that this head of Opus, 70 00:04:11,962 --> 00:04:15,282 Speaker 5: Dane Realm that he sat the issuing orders out to 71 00:04:15,362 --> 00:04:18,842 Speaker 5: Learned Leo or the Supreme Court justices or whatever. That's 72 00:04:18,882 --> 00:04:21,362 Speaker 5: not the way it works. It's not that kind of conspiracy. 73 00:04:21,722 --> 00:04:28,162 Speaker 5: The conspiracy is simply to recruit from the elite of 74 00:04:28,202 --> 00:04:32,242 Speaker 5: society and have the right people in positions of power 75 00:04:32,642 --> 00:04:36,322 Speaker 5: so that we can push forward this reactionary agenda and 76 00:04:36,562 --> 00:04:40,522 Speaker 5: rip up any kind of progressive advances. That's the conspiracy. 77 00:04:41,162 --> 00:04:43,882 Speaker 5: These people not being told specifically what to do. You 78 00:04:43,882 --> 00:04:46,322 Speaker 5: need to vote this way, or you need to push 79 00:04:46,402 --> 00:04:49,402 Speaker 5: this It's about creating the right conditions. It's about creating 80 00:04:49,402 --> 00:04:52,042 Speaker 5: a network and having the right people rise up and 81 00:04:52,082 --> 00:04:56,482 Speaker 5: to help each other out to advance this cause. And now, 82 00:04:56,522 --> 00:04:58,802 Speaker 5: to get back to your question, from time to time 83 00:04:59,322 --> 00:05:04,042 Speaker 5: they get into bed with like minded groups and individuals 84 00:05:04,082 --> 00:05:06,682 Speaker 5: who have nothing to do with Opus Day and who 85 00:05:06,722 --> 00:05:08,522 Speaker 5: have nothing to do with even with the Catholic Church. 86 00:05:09,122 --> 00:05:11,882 Speaker 5: At one stage in the late two thousands, the kind 87 00:05:11,922 --> 00:05:15,762 Speaker 5: of senior Upper Stay members in the US obsessed with 88 00:05:16,402 --> 00:05:21,282 Speaker 5: the idea of stopping same sex marriage from going into law, 89 00:05:21,962 --> 00:05:25,482 Speaker 5: and so OPA Stay basically teamed up with the Mormon 90 00:05:25,562 --> 00:05:31,682 Speaker 5: Church to push to get the called Proposition eight onto 91 00:05:31,682 --> 00:05:34,522 Speaker 5: the ballot in California, which was a major step to 92 00:05:34,802 --> 00:05:40,242 Speaker 5: slowing down the ratification of same sex marriage. Ultimately, they failed, 93 00:05:40,282 --> 00:05:42,922 Speaker 5: and people in the US can now have same sex unions. 94 00:05:42,962 --> 00:05:45,242 Speaker 5: But yeah, I mean, you know, that's one example of 95 00:05:45,282 --> 00:05:49,322 Speaker 5: them teeming up with like minded groups which fall outside 96 00:05:49,362 --> 00:05:51,442 Speaker 5: of the natural comfort zone. 97 00:05:51,562 --> 00:05:53,202 Speaker 3: Good did you grow up in the Catholic Church. 98 00:05:53,522 --> 00:05:53,882 Speaker 4: I did. 99 00:05:53,962 --> 00:05:55,082 Speaker 3: I'm just wondering if you did. 100 00:05:55,642 --> 00:05:57,962 Speaker 5: No, I didn't. I was raised, as I guess, a 101 00:05:58,042 --> 00:06:00,722 Speaker 5: Cultural Church of England member. I went to a church 102 00:06:00,722 --> 00:06:03,922 Speaker 5: and England school. We said the Lord's Prayer every morning, 103 00:06:03,962 --> 00:06:07,082 Speaker 5: and we prayed and we sang hymns. But I don't 104 00:06:07,082 --> 00:06:08,322 Speaker 5: think I really believed in of it. 105 00:06:08,802 --> 00:06:10,922 Speaker 3: I did grow up Caretholic, not that oh PA state 106 00:06:11,002 --> 00:06:14,162 Speaker 3: the Dominicans, but within the Catholic Church are the elements 107 00:06:14,162 --> 00:06:17,642 Speaker 3: of the Catholic Church. We like to talk about this day, right, 108 00:06:17,682 --> 00:06:19,402 Speaker 3: and we snicker about them. 109 00:06:19,562 --> 00:06:22,682 Speaker 5: So this again goes back to the cult like worship 110 00:06:22,722 --> 00:06:25,162 Speaker 5: of the founder. So the founder, I think was a 111 00:06:25,202 --> 00:06:28,002 Speaker 5: bit of an unstable individual, as many of these cult 112 00:06:28,082 --> 00:06:31,882 Speaker 5: leaders are. His father had fallen into bankruptcy, if the 113 00:06:31,922 --> 00:06:34,322 Speaker 5: family had fallen on hard times, his father had died, 114 00:06:34,682 --> 00:06:36,202 Speaker 5: and he is the eldest son. It was all on 115 00:06:36,242 --> 00:06:39,242 Speaker 5: his shoulders to lift family back to the buddh all 116 00:06:39,322 --> 00:06:42,002 Speaker 5: days and being rich and wealthy again. And so I 117 00:06:42,042 --> 00:06:44,482 Speaker 5: think he was carrying around quite a little burden and 118 00:06:44,482 --> 00:06:47,442 Speaker 5: he was struggling. But his way he over ate, the 119 00:06:47,442 --> 00:06:48,882 Speaker 5: way that he dealt with the things a lot of 120 00:06:48,922 --> 00:06:54,082 Speaker 5: his problems was to basically punish himself, to punish his body. 121 00:06:54,082 --> 00:06:57,602 Speaker 5: And this is something that people self mutilation is not 122 00:06:57,722 --> 00:07:01,842 Speaker 5: that far from self flagellation, which is what's happening here. 123 00:07:02,122 --> 00:07:05,602 Speaker 5: I'm not a psychologist or psychiatrist, and but my interpretation 124 00:07:05,722 --> 00:07:07,562 Speaker 5: is that this is the way that he dealt with 125 00:07:07,562 --> 00:07:10,482 Speaker 5: his problems. So he would do it into two ways. 126 00:07:10,482 --> 00:07:12,642 Speaker 5: And you mentioned one of them, the scyllis, which is 127 00:07:12,642 --> 00:07:16,442 Speaker 5: basically like a barbed wire. Often usually you were around 128 00:07:16,522 --> 00:07:18,642 Speaker 5: around the thigh, but couldn't be used to You can 129 00:07:18,642 --> 00:07:20,322 Speaker 5: wear it around other parts of the body as well, 130 00:07:20,362 --> 00:07:22,642 Speaker 5: and it's made up of these kind of like claws 131 00:07:22,642 --> 00:07:25,682 Speaker 5: which dig into the skin. The idea is that it's 132 00:07:25,722 --> 00:07:29,922 Speaker 5: meant to be very uncomfortable. It's that breaks the skin maybe, 133 00:07:30,082 --> 00:07:32,242 Speaker 5: but it's just it makes it uncomfortable to sit or 134 00:07:32,282 --> 00:07:34,882 Speaker 5: to do anything, and it's meant to remind you of 135 00:07:34,922 --> 00:07:37,962 Speaker 5: the suffering of Christ. So that the Founder was a 136 00:07:38,002 --> 00:07:40,682 Speaker 5: big wearer of the scillys. He would wear at four 137 00:07:40,722 --> 00:07:44,722 Speaker 5: hours on end, sometimes around his thigh, often around his waist, 138 00:07:44,962 --> 00:07:48,002 Speaker 5: which kind of goes back to his discomfort around his 139 00:07:48,082 --> 00:07:52,642 Speaker 5: weight and his issues around weight. But he also used 140 00:07:52,682 --> 00:07:54,482 Speaker 5: to use this other thing called the discipline, which is 141 00:07:54,802 --> 00:07:58,362 Speaker 5: a whip. Now, a normal discipline would be made of 142 00:07:58,802 --> 00:08:01,482 Speaker 5: kind of cord or rope, and maybe you'd have kind 143 00:08:01,482 --> 00:08:03,482 Speaker 5: of three lashes and you'd take off your shirt and 144 00:08:03,522 --> 00:08:06,642 Speaker 5: you would hit yourself over the back. And again the 145 00:08:06,722 --> 00:08:09,002 Speaker 5: idea is that it's to remind you of the suffering 146 00:08:09,042 --> 00:08:11,842 Speaker 5: of Christ. But for it's the Founder of OBErs Day, 147 00:08:12,282 --> 00:08:15,282 Speaker 5: that wasn't enough. He pimped up his discipline so he 148 00:08:15,322 --> 00:08:19,042 Speaker 5: would add razor blades to the rope so that when 149 00:08:19,042 --> 00:08:23,802 Speaker 5: he whipped himself he would cut into his back, and 150 00:08:24,402 --> 00:08:27,762 Speaker 5: those around him were worried about his psychological state. His 151 00:08:27,882 --> 00:08:31,042 Speaker 5: mother and his priest even begged him to stop doing this. 152 00:08:31,482 --> 00:08:34,202 Speaker 5: The walls would be spattered with blood after he'd had 153 00:08:34,242 --> 00:08:41,642 Speaker 5: these sessions, but Escrevar made it compulsory for the numery members, 154 00:08:41,642 --> 00:08:44,082 Speaker 5: the celibate members of Opus Day, the kind of the 155 00:08:44,122 --> 00:08:47,442 Speaker 5: elite members of OPA's day, to continue this practice. So 156 00:08:47,442 --> 00:08:50,602 Speaker 5: many of the teachers were at the school in the 157 00:08:50,642 --> 00:08:53,682 Speaker 5: Heights where John attended. Many of those teachers would have 158 00:08:53,762 --> 00:08:58,002 Speaker 5: been numery members celibate members of Opus Day, and they 159 00:08:58,002 --> 00:09:01,362 Speaker 5: are still to this day expected to do those two 160 00:09:01,402 --> 00:09:04,122 Speaker 5: forms of corporal multification. So then they're expected to wor 161 00:09:04,202 --> 00:09:07,282 Speaker 5: the sybis for two hours a day, you're in the afternoons, 162 00:09:07,802 --> 00:09:10,962 Speaker 5: and they're expected to whip themselves using the discipline, presumably 163 00:09:11,002 --> 00:09:13,442 Speaker 5: without the razor blades, for a period, usually on a 164 00:09:13,442 --> 00:09:16,682 Speaker 5: Saturday afternoon. That's still ongoing to this day. And those 165 00:09:16,722 --> 00:09:19,002 Speaker 5: are the kind of the elite members, the normal members, 166 00:09:19,482 --> 00:09:22,682 Speaker 5: the supernomeries, the people that live out in the innormal 167 00:09:22,762 --> 00:09:25,402 Speaker 5: homes with kids or whatever. They've been couraged to do. 168 00:09:25,442 --> 00:09:28,002 Speaker 5: These things too, but there's not the same level of 169 00:09:28,042 --> 00:09:31,122 Speaker 5: expectation or control to ensure they do it. But yeah, 170 00:09:31,162 --> 00:09:33,922 Speaker 5: this is very much still alive and well within the organization. 171 00:09:34,442 --> 00:09:37,842 Speaker 4: Going to the conspiracy aspect of this show, the word 172 00:09:37,882 --> 00:09:41,242 Speaker 4: that is most commonly associated with Opus Day is secretive. 173 00:09:41,762 --> 00:09:45,002 Speaker 4: Why be secretive? Why not be open about what you 174 00:09:45,162 --> 00:09:48,242 Speaker 4: believe and what you're trying to accomplish in this world 175 00:09:48,282 --> 00:09:49,602 Speaker 4: like other organizations are. 176 00:09:49,762 --> 00:09:52,322 Speaker 5: Again, it always comes back to the founder. He was 177 00:09:52,362 --> 00:09:56,922 Speaker 5: a conspiracy theorist himself. He realized that he was building 178 00:09:57,042 --> 00:09:59,762 Speaker 5: this army and he saw it as an army. He 179 00:09:59,882 --> 00:10:02,682 Speaker 5: described it in his writings as an army. He knew 180 00:10:02,682 --> 00:10:05,842 Speaker 5: he was building this secret army in a hostile environment, 181 00:10:05,922 --> 00:10:09,322 Speaker 5: so it made sense to him to keep it flanderstin. Yeah, 182 00:10:09,482 --> 00:10:14,282 Speaker 5: like he specifically told his members to not disclose their 183 00:10:14,322 --> 00:10:17,402 Speaker 5: membership to anyone else, to even their their friends or family. 184 00:10:17,642 --> 00:10:19,962 Speaker 5: He was obsessed with the idea of we need to 185 00:10:20,082 --> 00:10:22,842 Speaker 5: keep this below the radar because there are enemies of 186 00:10:22,922 --> 00:10:27,362 Speaker 5: Christ add and as well as infiltrating the upper echelons 187 00:10:27,402 --> 00:10:30,802 Speaker 5: of society, he also tasked his followers with and I 188 00:10:30,802 --> 00:10:34,042 Speaker 5: guess u cia guys will enjoy this but he tasked 189 00:10:34,082 --> 00:10:37,802 Speaker 5: them specifically with collecting information on the enemies of Christ. 190 00:10:38,082 --> 00:10:41,802 Speaker 5: He saw this as a battle and the open stain membership. 191 00:10:42,402 --> 00:10:45,562 Speaker 5: It was a gorilla army that would infiltrate society and 192 00:10:45,642 --> 00:10:48,522 Speaker 5: use their positions there to one push through the agenda, 193 00:10:48,602 --> 00:10:51,602 Speaker 5: but two also to collect information on the enemies out 194 00:10:51,642 --> 00:10:53,922 Speaker 5: there and people that might be that might stop them 195 00:10:53,962 --> 00:10:57,082 Speaker 5: from pushing through this throat. Yes, these documents were written 196 00:10:57,122 --> 00:10:59,762 Speaker 5: in the nineteen thirties. These documents are held up as 197 00:11:00,002 --> 00:11:03,562 Speaker 5: like tablets that Nausi's brought down from the mountain. This 198 00:11:03,682 --> 00:11:06,842 Speaker 5: is still the way the organization thinks about itself and 199 00:11:06,882 --> 00:11:10,522 Speaker 5: about its membership today in the twenty first century. 200 00:11:11,282 --> 00:11:13,282 Speaker 2: Just hold on for a short break can be read back. 201 00:11:22,882 --> 00:11:26,362 Speaker 3: So Gith, no discussion of Opustay is complete without at 202 00:11:26,442 --> 00:11:30,162 Speaker 3: least touching on Reverend John McCluskey, right. He was the 203 00:11:30,242 --> 00:11:34,682 Speaker 3: American sort of patron of Opus day, bringing it into 204 00:11:34,682 --> 00:11:39,242 Speaker 3: the US, building it up. Charismitic guy. He converted New 205 00:11:39,282 --> 00:11:42,962 Speaker 3: Gingrich and Larry Kudlow and Senator Sam brown Beck and 206 00:11:43,202 --> 00:11:45,682 Speaker 3: a number of other people. A huge money raiser, and 207 00:11:45,802 --> 00:11:50,282 Speaker 3: in the end he ended up with charges of sexual exploitation. 208 00:11:50,882 --> 00:11:53,642 Speaker 3: I think a payout of a million dollars was made 209 00:11:53,722 --> 00:11:56,082 Speaker 3: to a number of young women. I wonder if you 210 00:11:56,122 --> 00:12:00,642 Speaker 3: could bring us through some of the charges of sexual assault, 211 00:12:00,682 --> 00:12:04,242 Speaker 3: but of the charges against against McCluskey and OPUS Day 212 00:12:04,242 --> 00:12:06,202 Speaker 3: in general, you're absolutely. 213 00:12:05,802 --> 00:12:07,522 Speaker 5: Watch and describing as sexual assault. 214 00:12:07,602 --> 00:12:09,322 Speaker 3: So yes, in. 215 00:12:09,202 --> 00:12:13,202 Speaker 5: The early two thousands, he groped one of the women 216 00:12:13,282 --> 00:12:16,082 Speaker 5: who came to him for the spirituals and olpusta member 217 00:12:16,122 --> 00:12:21,602 Speaker 5: in fact, and she reported the issue to OPU Stay 218 00:12:22,082 --> 00:12:25,522 Speaker 5: and they did nothing, and she threatened to sue. And 219 00:12:26,202 --> 00:12:29,642 Speaker 5: when she threatened to sue, Opus Stay decided to smuggle 220 00:12:29,642 --> 00:12:32,082 Speaker 5: this guy out of the country. They basically sent him 221 00:12:32,082 --> 00:12:34,242 Speaker 5: off to England to live in the OLPAH Stay Center 222 00:12:34,442 --> 00:12:37,362 Speaker 5: in London where he couldn't be served with papers or 223 00:12:37,442 --> 00:12:40,282 Speaker 5: arrested or whatever. And there was a good reason for that, 224 00:12:40,322 --> 00:12:43,442 Speaker 5: and that was because mc mccoskey had become the face 225 00:12:43,762 --> 00:12:46,562 Speaker 5: of OLPUS Day in Washington, d C. And as you say, 226 00:12:46,602 --> 00:12:53,442 Speaker 5: he'd recruited vast numbers of the Conservative Republican elite to 227 00:12:53,722 --> 00:12:56,162 Speaker 5: OPA Stay. He'd enticed all of these people into the 228 00:12:56,162 --> 00:12:58,562 Speaker 5: OLPAH Stay network. People looked up to him. He was 229 00:12:58,682 --> 00:13:01,162 Speaker 5: frequently on places like meet the press. He was the 230 00:13:01,202 --> 00:13:04,482 Speaker 5: kind of the go to guy in central Washington. He 231 00:13:04,562 --> 00:13:07,922 Speaker 5: was confessor to all of these powerful people. The last 232 00:13:07,962 --> 00:13:10,602 Speaker 5: thing Olpasta needed was for him to be embroiled in 233 00:13:10,642 --> 00:13:14,281 Speaker 5: this sex gangle, and so they shipped him off to England. Meanwhile, 234 00:13:14,522 --> 00:13:17,962 Speaker 5: they agreed pay off with this woman, I guess got 235 00:13:17,962 --> 00:13:20,282 Speaker 5: her to sign a non disclosure agreement. They paid her 236 00:13:20,282 --> 00:13:23,682 Speaker 5: almost a million dollars. The whole story went away, although 237 00:13:23,642 --> 00:13:25,362 Speaker 5: it was part of the agreement. He was no longer 238 00:13:25,402 --> 00:13:27,442 Speaker 5: allowed to be back in DC, so he went off 239 00:13:27,522 --> 00:13:29,521 Speaker 5: initially to Chicago, but then they shipped him out to 240 00:13:29,562 --> 00:13:33,562 Speaker 5: Silicon Valley to recruit out there in Silicon Valley. And 241 00:13:33,762 --> 00:13:36,522 Speaker 5: this whole thing went away until a few years later 242 00:13:37,042 --> 00:13:40,442 Speaker 5: and the woman she'd understood as part of the agreement 243 00:13:40,442 --> 00:13:42,362 Speaker 5: with elpus Day that he would no longer be allowed 244 00:13:42,402 --> 00:13:45,362 Speaker 5: to go out and preach and he wouldn't be allowed 245 00:13:45,402 --> 00:13:48,881 Speaker 5: to be alone with women, And she discovered that he 246 00:13:49,002 --> 00:13:51,362 Speaker 5: was being allowed to carry he was carrying on doing 247 00:13:51,402 --> 00:13:54,922 Speaker 5: that in his ministry, and so she decided to basically 248 00:13:54,962 --> 00:13:59,362 Speaker 5: go public and to expose what had happened. So, yeah, 249 00:13:59,642 --> 00:14:03,642 Speaker 5: are there influential people in other places around the world. Oh, absolutely, absolutely, 250 00:14:03,762 --> 00:14:07,442 Speaker 5: almost every word that elpas Day operates, it's managed to penetrate, 251 00:14:07,482 --> 00:14:09,962 Speaker 5: to a greater or lesser extent, the kind of elite 252 00:14:09,962 --> 00:14:14,162 Speaker 5: of society. Going back to the sixties and seventies. There 253 00:14:14,162 --> 00:14:16,962 Speaker 5: are all kinds of rumors that they were involved in 254 00:14:17,002 --> 00:14:20,562 Speaker 5: the WHO in seventy five in Chile. They were kind 255 00:14:20,602 --> 00:14:25,722 Speaker 5: of part of the efforts to destabilize the Allende government 256 00:14:25,962 --> 00:14:30,562 Speaker 5: in the early seventies. There these days in places like Poland, Spain, 257 00:14:30,682 --> 00:14:34,082 Speaker 5: of course, they're extremely influential Hungary. I understand that they've 258 00:14:34,122 --> 00:14:37,162 Speaker 5: got pretty big influence there as well. Any places like 259 00:14:37,242 --> 00:14:41,242 Speaker 5: the Philippines, I think they over the years have really 260 00:14:41,642 --> 00:14:46,402 Speaker 5: managed again to penetrate the kind of the Filipino political elite. 261 00:14:46,202 --> 00:14:48,522 Speaker 5: One thing listeners should realize is that this is not 262 00:14:48,642 --> 00:14:52,322 Speaker 5: no ordinary organization. If you're interested in joining up, as 263 00:14:52,362 --> 00:14:54,362 Speaker 5: Dave you think, you know, if you think it's a 264 00:14:54,402 --> 00:14:56,682 Speaker 5: great organization you want to sign up, you can't just 265 00:14:56,722 --> 00:14:59,642 Speaker 5: go on to the website and punching your details and 266 00:15:00,122 --> 00:15:03,202 Speaker 5: get a membership card posted through the post. It's not 267 00:15:03,322 --> 00:15:08,002 Speaker 5: possible to request membership. You have to be invited in 268 00:15:08,642 --> 00:15:13,082 Speaker 5: so they decide who they want to be part of 269 00:15:13,122 --> 00:15:17,202 Speaker 5: the organization and they go after them, they caught them, 270 00:15:17,282 --> 00:15:22,602 Speaker 5: they groomed them, and they pushed them into membership. And 271 00:15:22,642 --> 00:15:24,362 Speaker 5: again that tells you what you need to know. This 272 00:15:24,442 --> 00:15:28,442 Speaker 5: is it's not a club that's open to anyone. It's 273 00:15:28,442 --> 00:15:32,682 Speaker 5: a club specifically for targeted individuals who are in a 274 00:15:32,722 --> 00:15:34,642 Speaker 5: position to shape society. 275 00:15:35,002 --> 00:15:38,802 Speaker 2: Guys, you're a financial investigator and journalists, you talk about 276 00:15:38,962 --> 00:15:42,482 Speaker 2: others either conspiracy or conspiracy theories in the financial industry. 277 00:15:42,562 --> 00:15:45,962 Speaker 5: As you guys will now, behind every kind of conspiracy, 278 00:15:45,962 --> 00:15:50,402 Speaker 5: you need money. And so banks throughout their history have 279 00:15:50,962 --> 00:15:54,482 Speaker 5: been at the forefront of making stuff happen around the world. 280 00:15:54,882 --> 00:15:58,682 Speaker 5: Whenever there's a coop or destabilization efforts or whatever they 281 00:15:58,722 --> 00:16:00,922 Speaker 5: might be around the world, the money's going to come 282 00:16:00,962 --> 00:16:02,722 Speaker 5: from somewhere. I mean, we were just talking before we 283 00:16:02,762 --> 00:16:07,082 Speaker 5: started recording about whole BCCI scandal the late eighties, knowing 284 00:16:07,162 --> 00:16:10,842 Speaker 5: nineties what people discovered that this bank had been used 285 00:16:10,922 --> 00:16:14,602 Speaker 5: to funnel money to the Taliban, to pakistanis into all 286 00:16:14,602 --> 00:16:17,282 Speaker 5: over the place. There's a great book called Billion Dollar Whale, 287 00:16:17,322 --> 00:16:21,162 Speaker 5: which is about a huge scandal in Malaysia where billions 288 00:16:21,242 --> 00:16:23,722 Speaker 5: were siphoned by this guy and some of the money 289 00:16:23,762 --> 00:16:25,922 Speaker 5: was used to finance the film The Wolf of Wall 290 00:16:25,922 --> 00:16:26,482 Speaker 5: for Ball three. 291 00:16:26,562 --> 00:16:31,162 Speaker 3: So opusta a it he has goals? What are its 292 00:16:31,202 --> 00:16:33,602 Speaker 3: goals through the US? Because you know, we see Project 293 00:16:33,602 --> 00:16:36,362 Speaker 3: twenty twenty five which has a huge amount of influence 294 00:16:36,362 --> 00:16:39,562 Speaker 3: of opus Sta people leading it and guiding it forward. 295 00:16:40,082 --> 00:16:43,602 Speaker 3: So what would a future US look like if opus 296 00:16:43,602 --> 00:16:45,202 Speaker 3: Stay gets its way. 297 00:16:45,442 --> 00:16:48,682 Speaker 5: I don't think Opista has any specific goals. Its goals 298 00:16:48,762 --> 00:16:52,442 Speaker 5: kind of shift and change according to whatever's happening. So 299 00:16:52,482 --> 00:16:55,162 Speaker 5: in the early nineteen thirties in Spain, for example, I 300 00:16:55,202 --> 00:16:57,482 Speaker 5: guess the goal would have been the elimination of the 301 00:16:57,482 --> 00:17:00,642 Speaker 5: Communists and the Masons and the Jews, and the kind 302 00:17:00,682 --> 00:17:04,602 Speaker 5: of the re establishment of the church's proper place in society. 303 00:17:04,321 --> 00:17:07,282 Speaker 4: Nick Church great again, but also make. 304 00:17:07,561 --> 00:17:10,681 Speaker 5: Conservative reading of the Catholic faith great again. So I 305 00:17:10,722 --> 00:17:13,561 Speaker 5: think these days, obviously there's the kind of hot button 306 00:17:13,561 --> 00:17:17,242 Speaker 5: issues like abortion and same sex marriage and contraception and 307 00:17:17,282 --> 00:17:20,322 Speaker 5: all that kind of thing. But I think really the 308 00:17:20,362 --> 00:17:24,321 Speaker 5: goal for opus day is to have is what we 309 00:17:24,322 --> 00:17:27,482 Speaker 5: were saying Earlieres, is to have the right hinder people, 310 00:17:27,762 --> 00:17:31,641 Speaker 5: our kind of people in positions of power making the 311 00:17:31,722 --> 00:17:37,081 Speaker 5: right decisions, the right moral Catholic decisions about these things, 312 00:17:37,482 --> 00:17:41,682 Speaker 5: and so there's no kind of policy agenda. It's about 313 00:17:41,962 --> 00:17:45,802 Speaker 5: creating the right conditions. It's about creating this network and 314 00:17:46,162 --> 00:17:50,402 Speaker 5: feeding this network with conservative Catholic doctrine, and then having 315 00:17:50,482 --> 00:17:53,601 Speaker 5: those people go out and make the right decisions for 316 00:17:53,642 --> 00:17:57,682 Speaker 5: themselves based on the reading of the Bible. I think 317 00:17:57,882 --> 00:18:00,162 Speaker 5: that's the goal. Yeah, I think it's in a good 318 00:18:00,202 --> 00:18:03,482 Speaker 5: position to do that following the last election, as you 319 00:18:03,522 --> 00:18:07,242 Speaker 5: were saying. Kevin Roberts, the president of the Heritage Foundation, 320 00:18:07,362 --> 00:18:10,922 Speaker 5: the Architective Project twenty twenty five, this blueprint for a 321 00:18:10,962 --> 00:18:14,762 Speaker 5: second Trump administration. He's a regular at the OLPA Stay 322 00:18:15,322 --> 00:18:18,922 Speaker 5: Center in Central Washington. He gets his spiritual guidance from 323 00:18:18,962 --> 00:18:21,361 Speaker 5: an open state priest, and you can be rest assured 324 00:18:21,362 --> 00:18:23,601 Speaker 5: that OPU Stay's pretty happy with most of the agenda 325 00:18:23,602 --> 00:18:26,922 Speaker 5: that he's going to be pushing. In the last Trump administration, 326 00:18:27,202 --> 00:18:29,842 Speaker 5: I think there were five members of the cabinets who 327 00:18:29,882 --> 00:18:33,722 Speaker 5: were closely allied to OPA Stay. I wouldn't be surprised 328 00:18:33,722 --> 00:18:36,162 Speaker 5: to see a similar number, if not more, in the second. 329 00:18:36,562 --> 00:18:40,402 Speaker 5: In the second administration, you might assume, Okay, they don't 330 00:18:40,402 --> 00:18:42,642 Speaker 5: really believe in these particular policies. 331 00:18:42,682 --> 00:18:44,841 Speaker 4: They're all in it for power. Half of the people 332 00:18:44,882 --> 00:18:47,002 Speaker 4: believe it, and half of the people are seeing it 333 00:18:47,042 --> 00:18:49,561 Speaker 4: as a train that can ride to power. But my 334 00:18:49,642 --> 00:18:52,962 Speaker 4: impression of the people that I was surrounded with was no, 335 00:18:53,082 --> 00:18:57,442 Speaker 4: they're doing this because they're true believers and they specifically 336 00:18:57,762 --> 00:18:59,841 Speaker 4: see the world as either good or evil. 337 00:18:59,962 --> 00:19:00,482 Speaker 3: Absolutely. 338 00:19:00,482 --> 00:19:02,682 Speaker 5: I think if you listen to some of the speeches 339 00:19:02,722 --> 00:19:06,522 Speaker 5: given given by people like Leonard Leo and by Kevin Roberts, 340 00:19:06,722 --> 00:19:11,042 Speaker 5: it's very clear that they see this as as a war. 341 00:19:11,242 --> 00:19:14,442 Speaker 5: It's us versus them. It's not just a cultural war. 342 00:19:14,482 --> 00:19:16,562 Speaker 5: I mean they they see this as a religious war. 343 00:19:16,922 --> 00:19:21,081 Speaker 5: It's a war against atheism, it's a war against progressivism. 344 00:19:21,402 --> 00:19:24,682 Speaker 5: They truly believe they're on the right side of history 345 00:19:24,722 --> 00:19:28,082 Speaker 5: and that they're following the teachings of Christ. I think 346 00:19:28,082 --> 00:19:29,602 Speaker 5: the Pope might have something to say about it. 347 00:19:29,602 --> 00:19:31,562 Speaker 4: I think there are wide. 348 00:19:31,962 --> 00:19:35,202 Speaker 5: Sections of the Catholic Church, including some of its most 349 00:19:35,242 --> 00:19:39,202 Speaker 5: senior people, who recognize that OPUS Stay is a problem, 350 00:19:39,882 --> 00:19:43,362 Speaker 5: and that many of the practices in OPA Stay, things 351 00:19:43,402 --> 00:19:46,522 Speaker 5: like human trafficking, the targeting and grooming of children, the 352 00:19:46,522 --> 00:19:49,642 Speaker 5: way that it controls and manipulates its members, that these 353 00:19:49,682 --> 00:19:54,322 Speaker 5: are horrendous abuses that need that have no place inside 354 00:19:54,322 --> 00:19:58,202 Speaker 5: the church. So I've got great feedback from sections of 355 00:19:58,242 --> 00:20:02,682 Speaker 5: the church. Opus Day Opusta's reaction has been really interesting. 356 00:20:03,322 --> 00:20:07,202 Speaker 5: It's decided to normally, when in this day and age, 357 00:20:07,682 --> 00:20:10,882 Speaker 5: or maybe in B nine, maybe these days this doesn't happen, 358 00:20:10,922 --> 00:20:14,842 Speaker 5: but certainly in recent history, whenever an organization was presented 359 00:20:15,002 --> 00:20:20,082 Speaker 5: with horrendous scandal or abuse, the reaction is, oh, my goodness, 360 00:20:20,202 --> 00:20:23,042 Speaker 5: this is terrible. We're going to launch a huge investigation. 361 00:20:23,162 --> 00:20:24,562 Speaker 5: We're going to get to the bottom of this. We're 362 00:20:24,562 --> 00:20:27,682 Speaker 5: going to ensure that this is all sorted at, and 363 00:20:28,042 --> 00:20:29,922 Speaker 5: we're gonna absolutely going to get We'll get to the 364 00:20:29,962 --> 00:20:33,922 Speaker 5: bottom of this. Opus Day's reaction to my book and 365 00:20:33,922 --> 00:20:35,882 Speaker 5: to the allegations I make in my book has been 366 00:20:36,082 --> 00:20:38,682 Speaker 5: to stick the finger and fingers in their ears and 367 00:20:38,682 --> 00:20:39,202 Speaker 5: go la la. 368 00:20:39,122 --> 00:20:40,242 Speaker 3: La la, la, la, la la lao. 369 00:20:40,282 --> 00:20:43,442 Speaker 5: They just don't want to engage with the book in 370 00:20:43,842 --> 00:20:48,762 Speaker 5: any way. They have monted this disinformation campaign. They've tried 371 00:20:48,802 --> 00:20:53,162 Speaker 5: to smear me and say basically, I'm a liar. I've 372 00:20:53,202 --> 00:20:55,602 Speaker 5: tricked them into all of these kind of things, all 373 00:20:55,642 --> 00:21:00,121 Speaker 5: completely false. They've created this kind of alternative narrative that 374 00:21:00,162 --> 00:21:03,122 Speaker 5: the book is all about this one Spanish guy and 375 00:21:03,202 --> 00:21:05,882 Speaker 5: it's I'm besmirching his character and it's an assault on 376 00:21:05,962 --> 00:21:08,762 Speaker 5: this poor guy that's not true. This is then exposed 377 00:21:08,762 --> 00:21:12,362 Speaker 5: a about topper s Day. You know, they basically don't 378 00:21:12,362 --> 00:21:15,042 Speaker 5: want to engage with the book because to engage with 379 00:21:15,082 --> 00:21:18,682 Speaker 5: the book would involve them having to answer pretty serious 380 00:21:18,762 --> 00:21:24,002 Speaker 5: questions and would involve them having to admit to decades 381 00:21:24,442 --> 00:21:27,522 Speaker 5: of use and manipulation, and would involve them having to 382 00:21:27,602 --> 00:21:31,402 Speaker 5: admit that many of these practices are ongoing today as well. 383 00:21:31,642 --> 00:21:32,522 Speaker 5: Thank you guys having me on. 384 00:21:32,562 --> 00:21:33,722 Speaker 3: It's been a pleasure. 385 00:21:34,602 --> 00:21:39,722 Speaker 4: Mission Implausible is produced by Adam Davidson, Jerry O'Shea, John Cipher, 386 00:21:39,962 --> 00:21:44,361 Speaker 4: and Jonathan Stern. The associate producer is Rachel Harner. Mission 387 00:21:44,402 --> 00:21:48,442 Speaker 4: Implausible is a production of honorable mention and abominable pictures 388 00:21:48,482 --> 00:21:49,842 Speaker 4: for iHeart Podcasts.