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Speaker 1: Okay, hi, Hi, did you see that our friend boom

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Speaker 1: Boom Hiller won an Emmy.

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Speaker 2: I did see that boom Boom Hiller won any that

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Speaker 2: was very exciting. Yes, I was very happy for him.

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Speaker 2: He gave one a great, great speech. I didn't understand

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Speaker 2: what was going on with the Emmy's with the money.

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Speaker 2: What was the money thing? I tuned in like halfway through.

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Speaker 3: I also tuned in like halfway through.

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Speaker 4: I think they should just let people who want talk,

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Speaker 4: don't you. I mean, you posted these awards shows, like

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Speaker 4: what's your opinion on that?

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Speaker 2: I just feel like that's the moment people get to talk.

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Speaker 2: I mean, obviously within reason, don't go crazy. I thought

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Speaker 2: they were deducting people. They were deducting money from a

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Speaker 2: charity for people who were going over their time.

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Speaker 3: They were taking money back from the charity.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what they were doing. I think I'm pretty

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Speaker 2: sure that they were. Basically, they had a set number

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Speaker 2: and anyone who talked over it became a giving them less.

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Speaker 3: Yes, so I was like, that's pretty fucked up. But

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Speaker 3: who knows.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I can't really even track a conversation, so

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Speaker 2: who knows What I was thinking. I was kind of

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Speaker 2: half watching. I had just I went to New York

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Speaker 2: again this weekend.

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Speaker 3: So I had there. I show, Actually I had a show. Oh.

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Speaker 2: I just announced a new tour, you guys, that's what

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Speaker 2: I want to talk about. I announced the Highend Mighty Tour,

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Speaker 2: which I'm going to start next year. I started Washington,

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Speaker 2: d C. Next January or February, I don't know. It's

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Speaker 2: called the High and Mighty Tour. Tickets are on sale

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Speaker 2: and I'm going to lots of different cities and you

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Speaker 2: can check my website Chelseahandler dot com for tickets or

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Speaker 2: you could go to the link in my Instagram to

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Speaker 2: buy tickets.

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Speaker 3: That's great.

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Speaker 2: So that's what's happening there. And we have a very

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Speaker 2: exciting guest. I okay, so I saw a movie. I

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Speaker 2: actually moderated a conversation for a director named Susannah Focal,

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Speaker 2: who directed a movie about Reality Winner.

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Speaker 3: This is a girl's real name. This is our guest's

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Speaker 3: real name. Today. When your name first.

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Speaker 4: Texted me and said I want to talk to Reality Winner,

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Speaker 4: I was like, winner of what reality show?

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Speaker 1: Like?

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Speaker 3: I did not get her.

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Speaker 2: Her name is Reality Winner and if you don't remember

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Speaker 2: who she is, she was a whistleblower during Trump's first term.

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Speaker 2: She was working at the NSA and she leaked some

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Speaker 2: document to AYE to the Intercept and then the FBI

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Speaker 2: basically arrested her. They came, they interrogated her, they went

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Speaker 2: showed up at her house on a Saturday afternoon. And anyway,

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Speaker 2: she's a former linguist, she's an intelligence analyst. She was

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Speaker 2: arrested in twenty seventeen for leaking classified documents about the

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Speaker 2: Russian interference in the twenty sixteen election. And there is

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Speaker 2: some backstory that our listeners should know about before we

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Speaker 2: get into this conversation.

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Speaker 3: Reality was in the Air Force as a linguist.

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Speaker 2: She translated conversations for government targets, and then when she left,

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Speaker 2: she started a contract with the NSSA. And she outlines

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Speaker 2: that there are certain news sources that people who work

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Speaker 2: for the NSA are allowed to read that are not

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Speaker 2: available to the general public, but people with security clearance

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Speaker 2: are not allowed to read mass news the way civilians are.

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Speaker 4: Right, so, she explains in pretty great detail in the

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Speaker 4: book how as a person who has a high security

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Speaker 4: clearance working for the NSA, she had access to a

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Speaker 4: specific news outlet that was only for people with a

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Speaker 4: high security clearance. But there was also sort of this

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Speaker 4: rule that she couldn't go look at New York Times,

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Speaker 4: she couldn't go look at Washington Post. And if they

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Speaker 4: had found something like that, like links to that on

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Speaker 4: her phone, anything like that, then she would have been

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Speaker 4: in trouble. So there is this sort of weird dichotomy

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Speaker 4: that people with high levels of top secret clearance do

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Speaker 4: have access to more information, but they also don't necessarily

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Speaker 4: have what all of the rest of us have access to.

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Speaker 4: So the document, and it was just one document that

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Speaker 4: she leaked, was from this news source that she had

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Speaker 4: access to as a person with high security clearance.

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Speaker 2: So she felt that she needed to release this document

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Speaker 2: about Russian interference in the election so the American people

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Speaker 2: would know it happened. And then the FBI found out

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Speaker 2: confronted her in her home in a three hour interview

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Speaker 2: during which she was not read her Miranda rights. She

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Speaker 2: also had a dog and cat at her home that

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Speaker 2: were unpredictable. She describes feeling terrified that they'd hurt her

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Speaker 2: animals or use their behavior.

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Speaker 3: As an excuse to hurt her.

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Speaker 2: She was taken to jail, where she stayed for about

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Speaker 2: a year before going to prison for four more years,

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Speaker 2: and then her mom lived in her house nearby while

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Speaker 2: she was incarcerated, which she said has saved her life.

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Speaker 2: And then once she was out, she had a period

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Speaker 2: of readjustment. She says even the colors outside were overwhelming

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Speaker 2: for her after five years of staring at gray walls.

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Speaker 2: She briefly got married and then quickly divorced to an

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Speaker 2: old boyfriend who had a child. This was part of

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Speaker 2: her rebellion during her readjustment period, and now she has

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Speaker 2: written a book about her experience, has moved on romantically

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Speaker 2: and is in veterinary tech school. So there are a

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Speaker 2: few movies out about her.

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Speaker 3: There was a Broadway show, There.

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Speaker 2: Was a Broadway Yes, a Broadway show, and now she

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Speaker 2: has a book called I Am Not Your Enemy. That's

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Speaker 2: a little background information for you, so please welcome Reality Winner.

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Speaker 3: Hi Reality Hlsea. Hi, how are you? I'm good? Thanks

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Speaker 3: for having me. How are you? Oh? I'm great.

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Speaker 2: I always want to say we'll commence, but I feel

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Speaker 2: like commenced as we're starting. Does it commence mean we're

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Speaker 2: starting something or we're finishing something. I'm getting confused with

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Speaker 2: my Spanish.

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Speaker 3: She commenced. The starting commencement's speech though at a graduation.

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Speaker 4: Is yeah, well you're commencing into life.

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Speaker 3: Is that right?

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Speaker 2: Okay, okay, okay, we have Reality Winner here. Reality You

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Speaker 2: and I go way back, but you don't know it.

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Speaker 2: I'm sure a lot of people feel that way about you.

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Speaker 2: First of all, I'm just happy to see you out

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Speaker 2: of prison. I actually moderated a conversation between Susanna Fogel.

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Speaker 2: Do you know Susannah I love her? Yes, yes, okay, great.

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Speaker 2: She directed a move in one of the movies. So

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Speaker 2: there's three movies out about your story. Reality Winner was

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Speaker 2: a whistleblower in the year twenty sixteen with relation to

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Speaker 2: the Russian interference in the twenty sixteen election, and subsequently

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Speaker 2: went to jail and then prison because of that. So

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Speaker 2: there was a documentary about you, which I also watched.

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Speaker 2: And then there was a movie with Sidney Sweeney. I

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Speaker 2: skipped that one, And then the one was Susannah Fogel

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Speaker 2: who starred. Who was the star of that Reality Amelia Jones?

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Speaker 2: Amelia Jones, who's fucking phenomenal? Did you love that movie?

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Speaker 1: I don't watch anything about me because I have a

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Speaker 1: very like physical trauma response.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I understand that. I understand that. How are you

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Speaker 3: doing today? I'm being so good today.

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Speaker 1: My biggest issue was having to get to this studio.

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Speaker 1: I hate driving on overpasses.

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Speaker 3: They're my nemesis. Really, Why they're so high? Why? What

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Speaker 3: about bridges? No, I won't drive over a bridge? No?

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Speaker 3: Do you know that.

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Speaker 2: When I was a little girl, our family used to

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Speaker 2: drive up to Martha's Vineyard every summer.

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Speaker 3: So you drive from New Jersey. We grew up in

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Speaker 3: New Jersey.

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Speaker 2: We drive to Woodsholm, Massachusetts, and you'd have to drive

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Speaker 2: over a bridge called the tappan Zee Bridge that's outside

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Speaker 2: of New York. And it was you know how big

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Speaker 2: bridges are. They have all of that iron work over them, right,

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Speaker 2: but that's not the actual pavement. But my brothers and

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Speaker 2: sisters convinced me that we had to drive up over

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Speaker 2: the iron work every time. So I would crouch down

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Speaker 2: and cover my head because I was so scared, and

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Speaker 2: I'm like, oh my god, how are we gonna stay on?

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Speaker 3: They're like, we might not let cars fall off all

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Speaker 3: the time, and so anytime, so I have I have

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Speaker 3: bridge trauma too.

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Speaker 2: I hate them, but it sounds like you have lower

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Speaker 2: Bridge trauma.

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Speaker 1: Right, there is some bridges out here, Like the only

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Speaker 1: way to get to the beach is on a bridge,

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Speaker 1: and it's not fun to be in the car with me.

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Speaker 3: I have to drive. I have to be in charge

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Speaker 3: of my own death. But it's horrible. Well, I think

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Speaker 3: after everything you've been through, it's fine for.

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Speaker 2: You to want to be in charge of your own

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Speaker 2: death and your own life at this point, right, how

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Speaker 2: long have you been out of prison officially?

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Speaker 3: I have been out for four years.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So you wrote this book obviously after that, and

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Speaker 2: the book takes us through your journey.

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Speaker 3: The book is called I Am Not Your Enemy, Reality Winner.

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Speaker 2: So let's go through your history because you joined the

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Speaker 2: Air Force and then you decided that you wanted to

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Speaker 2: go work at the NSA. Correct, and take us through

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Speaker 2: what happened when you started working at the NSA.

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Speaker 1: So in the transition from the Air Force to the

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Speaker 1: in to say, I already knew it was a temporary position.

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Speaker 1: I had my sight set on getting a position in

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Speaker 1: Afghanistan proper, but that in order to be eligible for

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Speaker 1: those deployments, I would have to keep my security clearance

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Speaker 1: current because that's what the recruiters were looking for. So

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Speaker 1: I was coming up on a very important deadline and

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Speaker 1: I just took any contract that would happen. So that

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Speaker 1: was the particular position that I was working at in

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Speaker 1: Georgia at the time of my arrest or at the

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Speaker 1: time I committed the felony, there was nothing for me

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Speaker 1: to do. I just sat there and watched YouTube all

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Speaker 1: day and planned out my workouts and my yoga classes.

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Speaker 1: They didn't really know I was there, and looking back,

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Speaker 1: being so disconnected from any sort of purpose or mission

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Speaker 1: is definitely one of those things that left me vulnerable

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Speaker 1: to doing something so naive.

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Speaker 2: Naive is the word that you use a lot, and

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Speaker 2: I also don't really think you're naive. I think that

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Speaker 2: from your books and from what I've learned about you,

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Speaker 2: that you really just had a sense of right and

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Speaker 2: wrong and that you wanted to share. And I think

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Speaker 2: that's very admirable. And I think what you did, yeah,

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Speaker 2: you're young. I think you were young and didn't realize

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Speaker 2: what you revealed in the documentary, that you didn't realize

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Speaker 2: what the consequences would be. In fact, you didn't even

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Speaker 2: really consider the consequences of sharing the information that you

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Speaker 2: were privy to I didn't.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I just really thought that at the end

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Speaker 1: of the day, no damage was done. It was very

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Speaker 1: clear that I did what I did for the greater good,

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Speaker 1: and that you know, I was definitely going to lose

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Speaker 1: my job, but did not imagine the statements that the

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Speaker 1: government would then make about me and my character following this.

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Speaker 2: And at this time in your life, were you familiar

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Speaker 2: with people like Julian Assange.

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Speaker 1: So on the surface Yet, yes, I knew about Edward

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Speaker 1: Snowden and Chelsea Manning, but because of a technicality, they

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Speaker 1: were able to keep us from knowing any of the

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Speaker 1: specifics about these individuals. Every week or so, especially when

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Speaker 1: the news cycle would be very much focused on one

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Speaker 1: of those individuals.

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Speaker 3: That if you read this.

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Speaker 1: Washington Post article and it was derived off of classified

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Speaker 1: information and you read it on your personal device, you

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Speaker 1: are then carrying around classified information and you could be

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Speaker 1: charged with the Espionos Act.

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Speaker 3: So it was a.

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Speaker 1: Way to make sure that we were kept in the

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Speaker 1: dark on what life is like when you're charged with

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Speaker 1: these sort of crimes, and that I didn't know anything

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Speaker 1: about Snowden or Chelsea at all. I didn't know what

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Speaker 1: their legal defense was like I didn't really know what

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Speaker 1: they had gone through. I was just kind of acting

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Speaker 1: in the dark at that point.

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Speaker 3: And the reason that you acted was because you felt.

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Speaker 1: What I felt like, if the American people had the

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Speaker 1: information on that document and they could see it in

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Speaker 1: black and white, that a would answer a question that

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Speaker 1: was I felt like it was burning a hole in

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Speaker 1: our society in twenty seventeen, and I wanted to give

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Speaker 1: the American people a way to decode media bias if

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Speaker 1: they had the full story that they could see, like

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Speaker 1: the people I trust on the TV aren't giving me

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Speaker 1: the whole story, Like I can see everything right here,

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Speaker 1: and they're leaving half of it out.

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Speaker 2: And so can you take us through what happened on

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Speaker 2: that Saturday morning after you had printed this, So you

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Speaker 2: had printed the document with it on a Friday right

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Speaker 2: in your office.

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Speaker 1: I had actually printed it on like a Monday or Tuesday,

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Speaker 1: and I think I mailed it out on a Tuesday night,

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Speaker 1: and it wasn't for about two and a half weeks

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Speaker 1: until the FBI came to my house.

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Speaker 4: And I think we should also point out, you know,

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Speaker 4: the the intercept, which is who you sent the document

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Speaker 4: to kind of was like, yeah, they bungled the situation.

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Speaker 4: They have all these high level people who know how

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Speaker 4: to handle whistleblowers, and your document went to two journalists

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Speaker 4: who did not know how to do that, and instead

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Speaker 4: their mistake wound up eventually in your conviction.

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Speaker 1: Mistake, it was not a mistake, it was on purpose.

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Speaker 1: It's by design. I was the third, well, actually Terry

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Speaker 1: was the third, but there were three of us in

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Speaker 1: a very short succession that were sort of outed by

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Speaker 1: their incompetence but then championed by them. So they would

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Speaker 1: create victims and martyrs and then try to be the

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Speaker 1: only media outlet fairly reporting on them.

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Speaker 2: So take us through what happened to you on that

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Speaker 2: Saturday when the FBI did show up at your house

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Speaker 2: because you were getting ready to go on a date

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Speaker 2: that night.

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Speaker 3: Anyway, exactly the ultimate ghosting. That's funny.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, uh, not only did I not show up, but

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Speaker 1: he was probably interrogated as well, poor guy.

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Speaker 3: Oh true.

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Speaker 1: So I parked with my groceries and immediately a black

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Speaker 1: vehicle comes up behind my car and parks me in,

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Speaker 1: and Garret and Taylor come out. They introduced themselves, They

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Speaker 1: showed the warrant and I knew what it was about, obviously,

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Speaker 1: because I had done the thing. But they said they

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Speaker 1: were looking for documents, and I was like, who, I

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Speaker 1: only had one document and I sent it out like

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Speaker 1: That's kind of one of the reasons why I was

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Speaker 1: just so compliant. I was just like, okay, search my house.

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Speaker 1: The only thing that started to get scary was that

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Speaker 1: there were eleven men. I was pretty sure all of

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Speaker 1: them were armed, and the government was very quick to

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Speaker 1: correct me. Of the eleven agents, only nine of them

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Speaker 1: were armed. Only nine, Only nine. So I was lying again,

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Speaker 1: you know me, I just can't stop telling lies. And

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Speaker 1: they kept leaving my doors open, and I had just

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Speaker 1: sort of had my early twenties awakening of the injustices

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Speaker 1: of this country and understood that when the police or

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Speaker 1: the FBI, when someone from the government kills you, they

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Speaker 1: have the only control of the narrative. And so I

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Speaker 1: knew that these men were leaving my doors open and

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Speaker 1: interacting with a dog that had previously been extremely aggressive

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Speaker 1: to men, and that if my cat had gotten out

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Speaker 1: and if I had like run down the street after her,

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Speaker 1: would they shoot me in the back. If I became

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Speaker 1: emotional about how they were taking care of my animals,

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Speaker 1: or if I thought they were going to shoot my dog,

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Speaker 1: would they shoot me and then you know, try me,

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Speaker 1: I know, basically posthumously convict me in the news cycle

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Speaker 1: the next day they had interrogated me.

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Speaker 3: I did confess.

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Speaker 1: I thought that because they looked like the guys that

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Speaker 1: I worked with at NSA, if I just was straight

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Speaker 1: with them, that whatever was coming next in a court

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Speaker 1: or whatever, I could figure out and it would be

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Speaker 1: a normal legal process. And that was when Garrick told me,

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Speaker 1: we're going to have to take you in. You're going

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Speaker 1: to go in this vehicle over here, so nondescript, unmarked

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Speaker 1: black vehicle. He said it was going to be okay

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Speaker 1: because my hands would be cuffed in the front and

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Speaker 1: not the back, and that he would be sitting next

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Speaker 1: to me the whole time, and that he wanted to

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Speaker 1: apologize because it would be a bit of a drive.

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Speaker 1: What little I did know about Chelsea Manning was that

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Speaker 1: when they first took her, she was in solitary confinement

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Speaker 1: in Quantico for nine months and nobody knew where she was.

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Speaker 3: So when he.

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Speaker 1: Said that reassuring statement, I understood that I was going

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Speaker 1: to Quantico that night. And nobody would know where I was.

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Speaker 1: That was not the case, and even if they had

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Speaker 1: intended to drive me to the jail themselves, the last

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Speaker 1: remaining part of the warrant was a search of my person,

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Speaker 1: and obviously I was kind of in between dates, so

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Speaker 1: I wasn't wearing much. A visual search would have been

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Speaker 1: just fine, but a female, a woman, had to do it.

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Speaker 1: So that was when they called a nearby deputy from

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Speaker 1: the Richmond County Sheriff's office, and I don't know what

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Speaker 1: it was, but she came and assessed the situation, and

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Speaker 1: she took me to a private room and patted me

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Speaker 1: down and executed the search warrant on my person, and

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Speaker 1: she came out and had a conversation that I couldn't hear.

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Speaker 1: And shortly after that, another Shaff's Department vehicle came up,

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Speaker 1: and another female officer came out and she said, Hey,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to be the one taking you to jail.

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Speaker 1: So for the first time, women were on the scene,

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Speaker 1: uniforms were on the scene, marked vehicles were on the scene,

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Speaker 1: and the word jail was spoken. And I mean, honestly,

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Speaker 1: that was the first time I knew that I was

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Speaker 1: going to survive that.

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Speaker 4: Night, because so that's okay, So okay, it's a paper

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Speaker 4: trail and a record.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so I knew my parents could find me.

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Speaker 2: Then your poor parents, My god, I mean honestly, watching

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Speaker 2: your I mean, I want to make you feel bad

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Speaker 2: because I'm sure you have enough guilt to deal with

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Speaker 2: about with regard to your parents. But what your mother

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Speaker 2: and your stepfather? Is it your stepfather? Yeah, yeah, I

349
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Speaker 2: went through is just like I wouldn't wish that on

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Speaker 2: any mother, you know, and fighting so hard on your

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Speaker 2: behalf and having to hear and also you know coming Really,

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Speaker 2: there is just nothing better than a good mother. There

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Speaker 2: really is no nothing better in life than having a

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Speaker 2: good mother. It's more important than a good father. A

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Speaker 2: good mother is everything. Because she wasn't going to let

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Speaker 2: you compromise your values or your goals either. She wasn't

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Speaker 2: going to let you take a deal, which you were

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Speaker 2: given the opportunity to do.

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Speaker 1: I was initially upfront and then later again, like in

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Speaker 1: November of twenty seventeen, offered five years, and we had

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Speaker 1: tried some legal strategies to get that down to four years,

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Speaker 1: and it did not work.

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Speaker 2: And so when you were given that sentence for basically

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Speaker 2: telling the truth. How did you wrap your mind around

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Speaker 2: that psychologically? I know you talk about in the documentary

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Speaker 2: and in the book you did as well about contemplating

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Speaker 2: suicide and the one thing you didn't want to do

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Speaker 2: was hurt yourself, kill yourself while your mother was alone

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Speaker 2: in your house, which I thought was just like, oh

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Speaker 2: my god.

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Speaker 4: They didn't want your mother to like get get that

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Speaker 4: information while she was Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that at that moment in time, the

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Speaker 1: only thing I knew I was going to do it,

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Speaker 1: and the only thing I was in control of was

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Speaker 1: the timing where my mother would be when she got

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Speaker 1: the news. We had just gotten word that I would

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Speaker 1: be denied bail again and that I would probably never

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Speaker 1: leave that jail except to go to prison or to trial.

380
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Speaker 1: And I said, I can't do this anymore. And so

381
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Speaker 1: I started planning and doing dry runs of my suicide.

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Speaker 1: And the last piece of the puzzle was, Hey, I'm

383
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Speaker 1: not getting out on bail.

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Speaker 3: You need to go back to Texas.

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Speaker 1: You need to go home and get the house in order,

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Speaker 1: and you know, we'll figure this out later.

387
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Speaker 3: You know, my attorneys will do some stuff.

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Speaker 1: And she put it off by a week, and then

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Speaker 1: she put it off by another week, and then she

390
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Speaker 1: put off by another week, and then she started like

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Speaker 1: working at a dog shelter and thinking about adopting a

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Speaker 1: dog in Georgia. And it was like those three weeks

393
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Speaker 1: where I was actively trying to get her to start

394
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Speaker 1: driving and doing that. Other stuff was going on in

395
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Speaker 1: those three weeks, and I had kind of hit a

396
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Speaker 1: rock bottom, which involved me screaming and punching a door

397
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Speaker 1: after an officer, and I came out and told one

398
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Speaker 1: of my attorneys, this is what's going on when you

399
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Speaker 1: guys call me to the courthouse for this. I can't

400
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Speaker 1: go outside to yard call. And I know you guys

401
00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:36,600
Speaker 1: are sick and tired of me saying that I want

402
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Speaker 1: to go outside. I'm beliemic. I can't do this anymore.

403
00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:46,560
Speaker 1: I'm belieming. I'm not functioning, I'm not surviving. And you know,

404
00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:53,199
Speaker 1: luckily people on my legal team were very close to

405
00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:57,879
Speaker 1: that particular illness, and you know, you think about like,

406
00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:01,639
Speaker 1: you know, men don't take eating disorder seriously. They have

407
00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:06,280
Speaker 1: very intimate knowledge of how deadly bolimia is, and they said,

408
00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:09,760
Speaker 1: this is not okay, Like you were very sick and

409
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Speaker 1: this has to be taken care of. And when they

410
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Speaker 1: started initiating that type of care and that type of consideration,

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Speaker 1: I can't say things got better, but I feel like

412
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Speaker 1: the moment I came out, it felt like all the

413
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Speaker 1: drive in me to kill myself had just kind of

414
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Speaker 1: gone away.

415
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Speaker 2: And then how did that impact your eating disorder when

416
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Speaker 2: you were in jail or prison at this point? Once

417
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Speaker 2: you told everybody, then what happened with your eating disorder?

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Speaker 1: You know, it's so difficult, like even in normal daily life,

419
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Speaker 1: like you come out about something like that, like obviously

420
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Speaker 1: you can't just like not eat, you know what I mean.

421
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Speaker 1: It's not like it's not like being like, oh, I'm

422
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Speaker 1: addicted to myth, you know what I mean. People are

423
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Speaker 1: going to watch you to see if you're doing myth.

424
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Speaker 1: If you're like, oh I have bolimia, people want to

425
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Speaker 1: see if you're eating right. It's never really like a relief.

426
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Speaker 1: It just cuts some tension. And I was medicated, and

427
00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:13,520
Speaker 1: my legal team altered their interactions with me in a

428
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Speaker 1: way that would not disrupt the daily schedule of the prison.

429
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Speaker 1: Then they understood that when they came to have legal

430
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Speaker 1: meetings with me or when they were calling me to

431
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Speaker 1: the courthouse and I would miss yard call or being

432
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Speaker 1: able to go outside. They stopped doing that. They said,

433
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Speaker 1: we are going to meet her on her own terms,

434
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Speaker 1: and we're only going to try to meet with her

435
00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:41,880
Speaker 1: after she's gone outside to go run or exercise, and

436
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:45,280
Speaker 1: just things like that. It made enough of a difference

437
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Speaker 1: to get me through the winter of twenty seventeen.

438
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Speaker 2: And you talk a lot about the exercise and that

439
00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:54,880
Speaker 2: kind of replacing your addiction in a sense, I mean,

440
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Speaker 2: were you able to actually stop throwing up at that

441
00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:01,480
Speaker 2: point or did you continue on for a while.

442
00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:06,800
Speaker 1: I was able to not throw up and to continue

443
00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:11,320
Speaker 1: to exercise it an intensity that allowed me to eat.

444
00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:16,679
Speaker 1: And that was another pressing issue of with my disordered eating,

445
00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:20,200
Speaker 1: having very severe OCD. As to what I would even

446
00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:23,720
Speaker 1: put into my body, I don't even think clinically I

447
00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:26,080
Speaker 1: could get my hands on enough food that I was

448
00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:29,639
Speaker 1: willing to eat to do a proper binge. So it

449
00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:31,840
Speaker 1: was pretty much just trying not to throw up the

450
00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:33,840
Speaker 1: one meal I would eat that day.

451
00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:36,520
Speaker 4: Right, because you talk about how it was difficult to

452
00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:39,119
Speaker 4: get not only like kosher meals, but like meals that

453
00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:41,000
Speaker 4: didn't have meat or didn't it that had things that

454
00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:43,399
Speaker 4: you could eat that you were okay eating.

455
00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:47,000
Speaker 1: I mean, it's crazy, but as a federal inmate, that

456
00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:51,920
Speaker 1: County jail was required to give me a substitute protein

457
00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:55,879
Speaker 1: and not just more rice or more corn. When I

458
00:23:55,920 --> 00:24:00,479
Speaker 1: got to federal prison where it is regulated, there's chicken

459
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:03,760
Speaker 1: or there's baked beans, right, they have to have that

460
00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:07,040
Speaker 1: on the line. It didn't make it easier because you

461
00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:12,280
Speaker 1: would be discriminated against if you dared hold up the

462
00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:16,840
Speaker 1: line to ask for the alternative, because they're just throwing

463
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:20,439
Speaker 1: chicken on trays and trying to push everybody through. You

464
00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:23,280
Speaker 1: just got to have a thick skin. And there were

465
00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:28,200
Speaker 1: several really tense standoffs with officers because, like I said,

466
00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:30,160
Speaker 1: I dared to ask for the beans.

467
00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:34,000
Speaker 4: This week, we're looking for questions from writers. Whether you're

468
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:35,840
Speaker 4: an up and coming writer or you do it for

469
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:38,840
Speaker 4: a living, Please write into Dear Chelsea podcast at gmail

470
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:43,159
Speaker 4: dot com.

471
00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:45,560
Speaker 3: Did you make any friends in prison? Lots?

472
00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:49,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, people you still keep in touch with absolutely.

473
00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:51,320
Speaker 1: I went and ran a half marathon with one of

474
00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:54,080
Speaker 1: my friends, Stephanie, and my family got to meet her

475
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:56,639
Speaker 1: and they added her on Facebook.

476
00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:59,280
Speaker 3: She's great, she's doing so I'm so proud of her.

477
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:01,399
Speaker 3: Oh wow, yeah.

478
00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:03,439
Speaker 2: So talk to us about what it was like to

479
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:06,440
Speaker 2: come out of PRISM after spending that much time there.

480
00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:09,159
Speaker 2: When you did come out four years ago, talk to

481
00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:11,200
Speaker 2: us a little bit about leading up to that moment

482
00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:15,280
Speaker 2: and then the actuality. I know, you have ideas, people

483
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:17,760
Speaker 2: talk about these kinds of huge changes that you have

484
00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:19,640
Speaker 2: ideas of what it's going to be like, and then

485
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:22,560
Speaker 2: the reality of what it is like can be kind

486
00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:25,879
Speaker 2: of counterintuitive to a degree absolutely.

487
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:29,919
Speaker 1: I mean, when you're inside those four walls of the prison,

488
00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:33,240
Speaker 1: it's like, give me an ankle monitor, I don't care.

489
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:35,399
Speaker 3: I would do anything just to be home.

490
00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:39,320
Speaker 1: And in the year leading up to my release, the

491
00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:44,840
Speaker 1: COVID pandemic had happened. We had had several unwarranted lockdowns

492
00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:49,520
Speaker 1: and being put in county jail type conditions all over again,

493
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:54,320
Speaker 1: and I had just become so disruptive and violent and

494
00:25:55,560 --> 00:26:01,320
Speaker 1: using drugs, getting girlfriends, getting into fights that But by

495
00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:05,000
Speaker 1: the time that version of me walked out of that prison,

496
00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:11,320
Speaker 1: I was almost unrecognizable to my family. Even mild disagreements

497
00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:12,720
Speaker 1: would get loud with me.

498
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:15,440
Speaker 3: I didn't know how to relate.

499
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:18,479
Speaker 1: Because the things that I thought were funny, were like,

500
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:20,680
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, they were so inappropriate all the time,

501
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:24,840
Speaker 1: which was fine, but I don't think anybody gave me

502
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:30,240
Speaker 1: or my family the vocabulary to sort of talk through

503
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:35,760
Speaker 1: the process of decompressing. A huge trauma leading up to

504
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 1: my release is that I spent twenty three days in

505
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:44,960
Speaker 1: a single hospital room as part of a COVID quarantine procedure.

506
00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:49,959
Speaker 1: It was just so desocializing to a certain extent, and

507
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:55,679
Speaker 1: I feel like, not ashamed, but just like God, the

508
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:58,879
Speaker 1: person I had to become to get through that with

509
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 1: any type of stability or you know, we were we

510
00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:06,680
Speaker 1: were literally like, oh, okay, you're gonna put us in

511
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:07,960
Speaker 1: a room like mental patients.

512
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:10,240
Speaker 3: We're gonna act like mental patients. I mean we did.

513
00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:12,840
Speaker 3: And then to come out.

514
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:18,359
Speaker 1: The pressure was if your parents do anything public, if

515
00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:20,680
Speaker 1: they announced that you're home, we might not be able

516
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:23,440
Speaker 1: to keep you at home. At every step of the way,

517
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:27,440
Speaker 1: that halfway house threatened my ability to be on home confinement.

518
00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:31,120
Speaker 1: I did two drug tests a week. I was not

519
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:34,240
Speaker 1: ever authorized to drive myself, so my parents had to

520
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:38,119
Speaker 1: take off work to drive an hour and an hour back.

521
00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:41,480
Speaker 1: Just constant drug testing when I didn't even have a

522
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:44,400
Speaker 1: drug charge it like, yes, I know I did drugs, right,

523
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:45,920
Speaker 1: Like we can all say like, oh, she did drugs

524
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:48,280
Speaker 1: while she was in It's in the memoir. At that

525
00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:50,719
Speaker 1: point in time, I'm like, the federal government had zero

526
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:54,439
Speaker 1: documentation of substances being in my body, but I'm being

527
00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:58,760
Speaker 1: tested constantly if the ankle monitor would buzz, if it

528
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:01,720
Speaker 1: would be on low battery. One time, I missed a

529
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:03,840
Speaker 1: phone call because I was on the phone with my boss,

530
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:06,960
Speaker 1: and I called the guy back and he was like, Okay,

531
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:11,280
Speaker 1: well I had already documented as having escaped. I was

532
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:17,800
Speaker 1: constantly under so much pressure from the top down, from

533
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:21,680
Speaker 1: the government down, that the only way that pressure could

534
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:26,400
Speaker 1: come out was sideways. And so my family were they

535
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:27,320
Speaker 1: were the sideways.

536
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 3: They they.

537
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:32,560
Speaker 1: They were in my line of fire since I couldn't

538
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:35,199
Speaker 1: do anything to ease the government pressure off of me.

539
00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:39,400
Speaker 3: So things were really toxic those first six months. Wow,

540
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:40,840
Speaker 3: how about your sister.

541
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:45,360
Speaker 1: Luckily she was protected out of the picture. She was

542
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:51,080
Speaker 1: in North Carolina. She did bring her my niece down,

543
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:54,280
Speaker 1: her daughter, she brought her down to visit. I got

544
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:56,080
Speaker 1: to meet my niece for the first time or a

545
00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:58,880
Speaker 1: second time, because they surprised me getting out of prison.

546
00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 1: She and baby were there waiting outside the prison. For me,

547
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:06,840
Speaker 1: I know for her it was hard, but she also

548
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:10,760
Speaker 1: had a one year old daughter, so that probably gave

549
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:15,640
Speaker 1: her a really nice little buffer zone between the absolute

550
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:18,120
Speaker 1: dumpster fire that I was.

551
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 2: And what do you think what was the shift that

552
00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:23,520
Speaker 2: happened after about six months?

553
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:26,520
Speaker 3: Just did it start to depress your eyes?

554
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:30,280
Speaker 2: Like everything surrounding your case and you're kind of like

555
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:31,640
Speaker 2: their oversight of you.

556
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:36,560
Speaker 1: I think a really big part of it was, yes,

557
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:42,360
Speaker 1: I secretly married Carlos in my backyard and then sixty

558
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:47,400
Speaker 1: seven days later that relationship fell apart, and you know,

559
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:49,680
Speaker 1: my parents didn't talk about it, but I think that

560
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 1: once it had completely fallen apart, you know, day sixty seven,

561
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:58,720
Speaker 1: I said, okay, like his shit is out of this house,

562
00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:01,400
Speaker 1: like I made him come get it, and you know,

563
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:03,720
Speaker 1: was like, I'm going to start figuring out how to

564
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:07,920
Speaker 1: secretly get divorced from my living room. Right, it felt

565
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:10,440
Speaker 1: like one of the biggest barriers between me and my

566
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:16,200
Speaker 1: parents was lifted. And honestly, like it's really ugly to

567
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:18,160
Speaker 1: say this, but a big part of it was the

568
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:21,600
Speaker 1: fact that he had a daughter who was she was

569
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:23,880
Speaker 1: four at the time, and he would bring her over,

570
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:29,680
Speaker 1: and you know, my mother felt like I wasn't supposed

571
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:33,440
Speaker 1: to bond to this child. Well, my sister and her

572
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:38,120
Speaker 1: baby existed, Like, oh, you got out of prison, you

573
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:40,600
Speaker 1: got to meet your baby niece. Oh, but now you're

574
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:43,600
Speaker 1: playing stepbom to a four year old, Like I thought

575
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:46,840
Speaker 1: you wanted to be an aunt for your sister's baby.

576
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:49,320
Speaker 2: Or were you in any condition to be in that

577
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:50,520
Speaker 2: role in the first place.

578
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:52,880
Speaker 1: Well, I was fucking better than he was at it,

579
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:55,320
Speaker 1: that's for fucking sure. But when I found out he

580
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:57,760
Speaker 1: was getting high again and stuff like that, I mean,

581
00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:03,080
Speaker 1: you know it, and part of getting married, I knew

582
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 1: he was terrible. But I thought again, like, this girl

583
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:12,040
Speaker 1: was brilliant four years old, taught herself how to read.

584
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:15,960
Speaker 1: Her mom really didn't want to be a mom, which

585
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:18,160
Speaker 1: is why she was. She spent ninety percent of her

586
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 1: time with her alcoholic high you know, piece of shit father,

587
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:25,920
Speaker 1: And I just thought, well, god damn, like, even with

588
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:28,400
Speaker 1: this inkle monitor, I'm better than both of them combined.

589
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 2: And isn't it amazing though, when you think back and

590
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 2: look at that kind of decision making, like marrying Carlos

591
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:38,840
Speaker 2: in the first place, Like when you look at your

592
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:42,600
Speaker 2: the state that you were in, how newly out of

593
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:47,040
Speaker 2: prison you were, what your parents must have thought about that.

594
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:50,840
Speaker 2: I mean, you know you discussed that too, and it's obvious,

595
00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:54,920
Speaker 2: But when you look back at that decision making, don't

596
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:56,920
Speaker 2: you just know that you were in no position to

597
00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 2: make any of those decisions, Like you were dealing with

598
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:03,240
Speaker 2: so much much trauma that you hadn't even begun to unearth.

599
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think that when someone's drowning in trauma,

600
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:08,880
Speaker 1: the worst thing you can do is point out that

601
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:13,800
Speaker 1: they're traumatized, right, and that I was. I hate it

602
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:17,960
Speaker 1: when people say this, but they do say it innate

603
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:21,960
Speaker 1: thinking patterns. The way you think and operate as an

604
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:26,960
Speaker 1: inmate is you find what you want and you find

605
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:29,360
Speaker 1: a way to secure it in a way that an

606
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:33,200
Speaker 1: officer or a position of authority cannot take it away

607
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:36,000
Speaker 1: from you. So I knew that I wanted to be

608
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:39,600
Speaker 1: with Carlos and I wanted to be a family to

609
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:43,920
Speaker 1: that little girl. And I was just thinking like, hey,

610
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:46,440
Speaker 1: my parents can't say anything if we're married, but b

611
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:50,480
Speaker 1: if I do wind up backing custody, the government can

612
00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:53,400
Speaker 1: never deny me access to the two of them if.

613
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:54,760
Speaker 3: We're legally married. Okay.

614
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 1: So it was the absolutely like you just grab something

615
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:02,080
Speaker 1: and you're just like, no, you can't take this away

616
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:05,520
Speaker 1: from me because I have this legal document and you're

617
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:08,240
Speaker 1: constantly trying to be two steps ahead of the police.

618
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:14,200
Speaker 1: And that's where that decision making was from. And again,

619
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:19,040
Speaker 1: as a family unit, nobody had that sort of nobody

620
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:21,520
Speaker 1: had the vocabulary to sit me down and say, nobody's

621
00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:24,960
Speaker 1: going to take him away from you. We don't like him,

622
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:27,360
Speaker 1: we don't agree with him, we're not going to let

623
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:30,479
Speaker 1: you go back into custody, but nobody's going to make

624
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:35,560
Speaker 1: it illegal for you guys to interact. And because I

625
00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:40,320
Speaker 1: didn't get that assurance, I married him secretly, and once

626
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:45,120
Speaker 1: that disintegrated, I felt like everything got better with my

627
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:50,920
Speaker 1: parents obviously, like the way relationships go. We did see

628
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:56,920
Speaker 1: each other one more time, and that was when I

629
00:33:56,960 --> 00:34:00,480
Speaker 1: saw first hand the way he was going to use

630
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 1: access to his daughter to get behavior that he wanted

631
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:09,080
Speaker 1: from me. And that was when I walked away permanently

632
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:11,800
Speaker 1: and I never saw either of them again.

633
00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:15,799
Speaker 2: Wow, it's like trauma on top of trauma on top

634
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:16,440
Speaker 2: of trauma.

635
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:19,600
Speaker 3: I just keep asking for it. I make shit decisions.

636
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:21,640
Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, You're going to get better at

637
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:24,400
Speaker 2: making life decisions you already have. You're going to get better.

638
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:28,320
Speaker 2: That's just a period in time that's not permanent. Nothing's permanent.

639
00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:31,759
Speaker 2: You know, Look you're out. This is different. I mean,

640
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:34,360
Speaker 2: I have a lot of faith in your future, do you?

641
00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:39,879
Speaker 3: I mean, I guess I think you just lead. You're

642
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:41,040
Speaker 3: just such a heart leader.

643
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:44,120
Speaker 2: You know, you lead with your heart so much that

644
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:47,520
Speaker 2: that's been your issue. I think you know with when

645
00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:50,479
Speaker 2: you say you're terrible at making decisions, lead you're making

646
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:53,120
Speaker 2: decisions with your heart rather than using your head. But

647
00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:56,040
Speaker 2: with all of this experience that you now have, you're

648
00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:57,759
Speaker 2: going to make better decisions.

649
00:34:58,040 --> 00:34:59,120
Speaker 3: It's like a math equation.

650
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:02,920
Speaker 2: You're smart. You're too smart to keep repeating those decisions.

651
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:05,880
Speaker 2: And I don't think the first decision was necessarily framed

652
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:06,960
Speaker 2: as a bad decision.

653
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:10,040
Speaker 3: It was like you based on the courage of your convictions.

654
00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:12,400
Speaker 2: That was what I believed it. I wouldn't frame that

655
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:15,480
Speaker 2: as bad. You just didn't realize the consequences. So it

656
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:18,120
Speaker 2: was it was naive, as you say, it was young,

657
00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:21,000
Speaker 2: but it wasn't like you did something wrong.

658
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 3: You didn't do something wrong.

659
00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:25,160
Speaker 2: You know, I would like to think that I would

660
00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:29,360
Speaker 2: have those same convictions in your situation. So now where

661
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:31,760
Speaker 2: are you? Where are you with all of your trauma?

662
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:34,360
Speaker 2: How do you feel about everything? And how do you

663
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 2: feel about your life moving forward? And how do you

664
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:38,520
Speaker 2: frame the past?

665
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:41,120
Speaker 1: So one of the best parts about being back in

666
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:44,839
Speaker 1: my hometown is I get to be anonymous. People when

667
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:48,319
Speaker 1: they realized that I'm reality winner, it's usually like, oh,

668
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:51,640
Speaker 1: your Billy's daughter, and so everybody wants to know how

669
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:55,439
Speaker 1: my mom and my sister are doing. People don't really

670
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:58,680
Speaker 1: make the connection to what I did. The people down

671
00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 1: here are very concerned, but they also don't follow national

672
00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:05,600
Speaker 1: news there, which has kind of been my hiding place.

673
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:08,960
Speaker 1: I'm just coach ree and I've been coaching CrossFit now

674
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:12,760
Speaker 1: for four years. It's it's a cult, but it's also

675
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:17,240
Speaker 1: what keeps me from being bulliemic. It's like the only

676
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:22,279
Speaker 1: cure that I've ever found so far. And you know,

677
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:26,520
Speaker 1: I rescue dogs and I recently started a veterinary technology

678
00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:31,040
Speaker 1: program at the local university, which is the hardest thing

679
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:35,280
Speaker 1: I've ever done. And the travel restrictions are even more

680
00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:38,960
Speaker 1: like I'm not traveling, I'm not going anywhere, Like, I

681
00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:41,800
Speaker 1: basically signed up for three more years of federal probation.

682
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:44,040
Speaker 3: What do you mean basically signed up?

683
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:46,759
Speaker 1: Literally, if you miss more than two days, you're out

684
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:50,120
Speaker 1: of the program, the vet tech program. Yes, I felt

685
00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:53,120
Speaker 1: more nervous asking for one day of missed class to

686
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:56,239
Speaker 1: go on book tour the week of publication than I

687
00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:59,920
Speaker 1: ever did asking my probation officer to try.

688
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:03,160
Speaker 2: You said you were surprised that they used the dog

689
00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:05,520
Speaker 2: in the movie, that that they had the dog in

690
00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:05,920
Speaker 2: the movie.

691
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:07,120
Speaker 3: Why did that surprise you?

692
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:09,680
Speaker 4: Or that they had to stealing a dog in the movie, Yeah,

693
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:11,120
Speaker 4: which you had never done at that time.

694
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:15,840
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I hadn't actually never stolen a dog. My

695
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:19,200
Speaker 1: friends stole a dog for me back in May, and

696
00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:21,920
Speaker 1: I just thought that was like a funny continuation of

697
00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:25,839
Speaker 1: like how that movie played out. That was the only

698
00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:28,600
Speaker 1: scene I've ever seen from that movie. I just thought

699
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:30,000
Speaker 1: it was so delightful, and.

700
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:34,160
Speaker 3: It is delightful. It is. It's so funny.

701
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:36,799
Speaker 1: I wasn't even really into animal rescue at the time

702
00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:38,880
Speaker 1: of my arrest. You know, it's just kind of been

703
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:41,799
Speaker 1: a self fulfilling prophecy. Like the more people talk about it,

704
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:44,840
Speaker 1: the more I started doing it in my own life.

705
00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:47,080
Speaker 2: And what do you think or like some of like

706
00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:49,880
Speaker 2: what do you think is your biggest takeaway from spending

707
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:53,800
Speaker 2: all that time locked up and being treated as a criminal,

708
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:57,400
Speaker 2: Like what do you think that did to your spirit?

709
00:37:57,800 --> 00:37:59,399
Speaker 3: Like do you feel stronger now?

710
00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:04,280
Speaker 1: I don't necessarily feel stronger. I do feel a little

711
00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:08,160
Speaker 1: bit more brittle, kind of like I know, if you

712
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:11,640
Speaker 1: hit this glass against the table the right way, it's

713
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:14,759
Speaker 1: going to shatter. You know, I know what can take

714
00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:18,080
Speaker 1: me down really quickly. You know, I've often said, like

715
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:22,520
Speaker 1: what doesn't kill you just doesn't kill you. But I

716
00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:26,279
Speaker 1: do think that getting to interact with people from a

717
00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:30,560
Speaker 1: background that I never would have before and sort of

718
00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:34,120
Speaker 1: breaking down, Like I mean, when I was growing up,

719
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:38,200
Speaker 1: I was constantly just around other brilliant children, even in

720
00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:41,680
Speaker 1: high school. You know, all my friends right now are

721
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:47,480
Speaker 1: like they're all doctors. They're just insanely successful people. And

722
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:50,800
Speaker 1: even in the military, being around other people like me

723
00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:55,960
Speaker 1: that could learn languages. I've never been around normal people

724
00:38:56,640 --> 00:39:00,279
Speaker 1: until I was in that county jail. And that's kind

725
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:03,960
Speaker 1: of what burst my bubble and helped me understand my

726
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:09,040
Speaker 1: own country. I thought I was interested in social justice,

727
00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:11,680
Speaker 1: in the United States, and then I got locked up,

728
00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:15,280
Speaker 1: and I got really interested in it very fast, because

729
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:19,239
Speaker 1: you do realize that what is happening to millions of

730
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:22,560
Speaker 1: other Americans can happen to you at any time, and

731
00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:26,480
Speaker 1: that all of us are one interaction with law enforcement

732
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:31,839
Speaker 1: away from being in solitary confinement without legal justification.

733
00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:34,120
Speaker 3: And what we're seeing now with.

734
00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:38,080
Speaker 1: You know, these ice rates going on, and you know

735
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:42,880
Speaker 1: citizens getting detained under immigration law, which is ridiculous. Like,

736
00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:46,839
Speaker 1: it's so scary right now, to the point to where

737
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:50,080
Speaker 1: I never thought that this is where we were going

738
00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:54,600
Speaker 1: as a country. My basic understanding was, yeah, if they

739
00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:57,920
Speaker 1: charge you with the crime, they can do anything to

740
00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:00,160
Speaker 1: you after that. And now they don't even have to

741
00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:00,680
Speaker 1: charge you.

742
00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:06,560
Speaker 2: Oh it is Yeah, that's very scary to think about,

743
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:08,080
Speaker 2: especially when you put it like that.

744
00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:11,799
Speaker 3: What do you want out of life now that you

745
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:17,600
Speaker 3: have one? Honestly, I just want to know that.

746
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:22,640
Speaker 1: My community is a better place because I'm in it,

747
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:27,640
Speaker 1: And like most people, I want to be comfortable in

748
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:30,439
Speaker 1: my life. I want enough to get by. I want

749
00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:33,440
Speaker 1: to fence in my ten acres and open a dog sanctuary,

750
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:37,520
Speaker 1: you know. I mean, my view of the world has

751
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:41,839
Speaker 1: gotten a lot smaller with this criminal conviction, not being

752
00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:46,080
Speaker 1: able to have the high positions that I wanted to do.

753
00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:51,320
Speaker 1: I can't even coach troubled kids. You know, I can't

754
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:53,680
Speaker 1: be a mentor yet you have to have ten years

755
00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:57,680
Speaker 1: clearance from your last day of your sentence. My sentence

756
00:40:57,760 --> 00:41:03,000
Speaker 1: didn't end until last November, so in twenty thirty four

757
00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:05,960
Speaker 1: I might be eligible to be a mentor for children

758
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:07,560
Speaker 1: caught up in the criminal justice system.

759
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:11,160
Speaker 3: I'm surprised they allowed you to write a book. I

760
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:11,880
Speaker 3: am allowed.

761
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:14,400
Speaker 1: I can't make any money from it, and the NSA

762
00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:16,879
Speaker 1: took two years to clear that manuscript.

763
00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:20,239
Speaker 3: Really, you'll make it, So where does the money go?

764
00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:24,719
Speaker 1: So I gave everything to my agent because I love him,

765
00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:27,960
Speaker 1: not in a weird, like rep creepy way, but he

766
00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:30,920
Speaker 1: found me and he didn't even know I couldn't make

767
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:34,600
Speaker 1: money from it. This was all conversations we had later

768
00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:38,600
Speaker 1: on once we found a publisher. As of right now,

769
00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:42,919
Speaker 1: I don't have any documentation to say otherwise, but proceeds

770
00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:48,160
Speaker 1: from this book will go to charity. We just we

771
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:51,000
Speaker 1: waited two years for the NSA to clear the manuscript.

772
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:54,040
Speaker 1: When the time comes, we will make a statement on

773
00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:58,000
Speaker 1: which charities are and you know what percent of proceeds

774
00:41:58,040 --> 00:42:00,919
Speaker 1: and how that works out legally. But I do plan

775
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:03,120
Speaker 1: on being as transparent as possible.

776
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:05,240
Speaker 3: And do you want to have a family.

777
00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:10,840
Speaker 1: I have eight dogs, three cats, and somebody named Eddie.

778
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:14,200
Speaker 3: So is that a man in your life or is

779
00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:20,040
Speaker 3: that another animal? He's a man? Unfortunately, No, no, no, no,

780
00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:22,520
Speaker 3: that's not unfortunate. I'm glad that you have someone that

781
00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:25,400
Speaker 3: you care about. I want that for you, and I

782
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:29,000
Speaker 3: also just want you to like you're an inspiration. You know.

783
00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:33,319
Speaker 2: I hope you do feel that way.

784
00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:33,920
Speaker 3: I don't.

785
00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:36,400
Speaker 1: I just am like looking back, like I could have

786
00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:40,359
Speaker 1: done things so much better, and I could have been

787
00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:44,680
Speaker 1: somebody that the government couldn't say these terrible things about

788
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:48,680
Speaker 1: even though ninety nine percent of them weren't true. You know,

789
00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:52,120
Speaker 1: it's really hard to continually absorb the things that were

790
00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:56,200
Speaker 1: said about you in the courtroom that are like there's

791
00:42:56,400 --> 00:43:01,160
Speaker 1: just enough truth in that statement, like to where you

792
00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:04,399
Speaker 1: actually just believe everything they said about you. And I'm

793
00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:07,080
Speaker 1: still reckoning with that today. Like I said, I don't

794
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:10,840
Speaker 1: use my name in a lot of social situations, and

795
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:14,279
Speaker 1: just admitting that I went to prison, you know, the

796
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:17,920
Speaker 1: biggest compliment that I get is if I bring it up,

797
00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:20,960
Speaker 1: people just think I went for like meth, and I'm like,

798
00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:23,120
Speaker 1: I'm willing to go along with that, Like yeah.

799
00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:27,280
Speaker 2: Sure, no, no, it's so much more than that, because

800
00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:29,600
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't think you're taking into account that

801
00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:31,040
Speaker 2: you survived all of this.

802
00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:33,320
Speaker 3: You know, of course it's not ideal.

803
00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:36,279
Speaker 2: Of course, you don't want anyone to be saying, you know,

804
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:40,600
Speaker 2: to be propagating lies or perpetuating lies about you.

805
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:42,640
Speaker 3: No, but you survived all of this.

806
00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:45,279
Speaker 2: You have a job, and you care about your like

807
00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:47,719
Speaker 2: place in the community. Look at all these animals that

808
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:50,839
Speaker 2: you're helping, like your parent, you're with your family, you know, like,

809
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:53,319
Speaker 2: there's so many good things. Even though this is not

810
00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:55,719
Speaker 2: an ideal situation, and you would if you had to

811
00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:58,480
Speaker 2: repeat it, you would not have repeated it. You are

812
00:43:58,520 --> 00:44:00,920
Speaker 2: here with us today and there are lessons for you

813
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:05,160
Speaker 2: to still continue to learn, and your story, like sharing

814
00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:07,640
Speaker 2: this book with the world is going to be tremendously

815
00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:12,080
Speaker 2: helpful I think, and cathartic for your healing process. I mean,

816
00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:14,879
Speaker 2: I'm assuming you're already in therapy. I mean, you'd have

817
00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:18,200
Speaker 2: to be right. You have been in therapy for a while.

818
00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:22,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, therapy and me don't get along well because for

819
00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:25,560
Speaker 1: three years of probation, I was court ordered to do it.

820
00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:29,400
Speaker 1: I had to be in a program without being provided

821
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:31,160
Speaker 1: the health care for it, so I was like a

822
00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:33,759
Speaker 1: lot of paying out of pocket. So like for me,

823
00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:35,840
Speaker 1: it just let such a bad taste in my mouth.

824
00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:37,799
Speaker 1: But I have been able to kind of get my

825
00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:40,720
Speaker 1: veterans benefits back up and running.

826
00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:43,440
Speaker 3: Oh that's great. Yeah, so I was properly.

827
00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:47,120
Speaker 1: Diagnosed last fall and have been doing a lot better

828
00:44:47,239 --> 00:44:50,799
Speaker 1: with my mental health and a sort of regimen for that.

829
00:44:51,640 --> 00:44:54,000
Speaker 2: And you need to reclaim that too, you know, you

830
00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:56,800
Speaker 2: need to reclaim therapy because that's yours for the taking,

831
00:44:57,120 --> 00:44:59,760
Speaker 2: not theirs to leave a bad taste in your mouth.

832
00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:02,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I'll just do a bunch of podcasts

833
00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:04,040
Speaker 1: till I feel better about myself.

834
00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:07,440
Speaker 2: Absolutely, just keep talking and talking and spreading the good word.

835
00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:10,280
Speaker 4: Well, and Chelsea, I think you're so right. Like this book,

836
00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:13,200
Speaker 4: I feel like is such a turning point where ten

837
00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:15,520
Speaker 4: twenty years down the road, you may have a better

838
00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:18,640
Speaker 4: understanding of why you went through what you went through,

839
00:45:18,719 --> 00:45:20,719
Speaker 4: but this is just the beginning of that. Like, this

840
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:23,880
Speaker 4: feels like a starting point, A commencement, like we talked about.

841
00:45:24,640 --> 00:45:26,680
Speaker 2: So we have to figure out what commencement means because

842
00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:28,120
Speaker 2: I'm still I keep looking up that word.

843
00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:34,720
Speaker 3: I'm like, is it a beginning or then? But no reality.

844
00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:36,520
Speaker 3: I think that it's so funny that your name is

845
00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:37,320
Speaker 3: Reality Winner.

846
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:39,759
Speaker 2: I mean, honestly, try to be anonymous with a name

847
00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:42,680
Speaker 2: like reality Winner, right, But I really do think like

848
00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:45,360
Speaker 2: you haven't seen I know you've been out for four years,

849
00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:48,799
Speaker 2: but you haven't seen the lessons that are going to

850
00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:51,560
Speaker 2: come from this just yet. And to be open to

851
00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:54,000
Speaker 2: whatever comes your way, and the fact that you're so

852
00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:57,400
Speaker 2: open and so willing to share your story and that

853
00:45:57,480 --> 00:46:00,399
Speaker 2: you don't Yes, of course there's bitterness, but you don't

854
00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:04,080
Speaker 2: come across as someone who is bitter and enveloped in.

855
00:46:04,080 --> 00:46:05,719
Speaker 3: Your bitterness, do you know what I mean?

856
00:46:06,120 --> 00:46:09,640
Speaker 2: You're loving and you're sweet and like and to remain

857
00:46:10,040 --> 00:46:13,160
Speaker 2: to have those things remaining within you is quite a

858
00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:16,200
Speaker 2: feat and it speaks volumes about your true character and

859
00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:18,759
Speaker 2: who you really are as opposed to all of the

860
00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:20,840
Speaker 2: things that have been said about you that are not true.

861
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:24,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think twenty twenty five for me has been

862
00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:29,319
Speaker 1: difficult because we're right back in the same position we

863
00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:31,160
Speaker 1: were in twenty seventeen.

864
00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:35,000
Speaker 3: And of course it's very triggering for you, so triggering.

865
00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:36,759
Speaker 1: I mean, one of the jokes we have is like,

866
00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:38,840
Speaker 1: you know, the last time around, I only made it

867
00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:40,320
Speaker 1: four months before I broke.

868
00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:45,239
Speaker 3: The law, and I think, right now, lady doubled your time?

869
00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:47,160
Speaker 3: Are eight months?

870
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:49,080
Speaker 1: Well? I know I have little tick marks, you know

871
00:46:49,120 --> 00:46:53,440
Speaker 1: what I mean. But it's like the guilt of that

872
00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:56,880
Speaker 1: then was like last time I was willing to act,

873
00:46:57,120 --> 00:47:00,879
Speaker 1: and now, like so many millions of Americans, I don't

874
00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:02,440
Speaker 1: want to lose everything all over again.

875
00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:05,800
Speaker 3: I don't, right, you know, am I supposed to be

876
00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:07,000
Speaker 3: out there? I mean?

877
00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:09,200
Speaker 1: And of course where I live in the middle of nowhere.

878
00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:12,080
Speaker 1: You know, we're not in a big city. We're not

879
00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:15,600
Speaker 1: in LA We're not Chicago. Right now, what am I

880
00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:17,840
Speaker 1: supposed to do? Am I supposed to drive to Chicago

881
00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:24,879
Speaker 1: and put my body between victims and masked agents, masked kidnappers?

882
00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:25,480
Speaker 1: You know?

883
00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:27,759
Speaker 3: No, I mean, here's what am I supposed to do?

884
00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:30,560
Speaker 2: You've done what you're supposed to do. You're not supposed

885
00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:32,839
Speaker 2: to be involved in anything else. You need to keep

886
00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:36,640
Speaker 2: yourself safe and sane. That's your main objective, and take

887
00:47:36,680 --> 00:47:38,879
Speaker 2: care of all of your animals and have a good

888
00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:41,359
Speaker 2: time with your boyfriend. That's what I want you to do.

889
00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:44,600
Speaker 2: That is your doctor's orders. I'm a medical professional. I'm

890
00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:46,839
Speaker 2: actually not so I can't say that, but I think

891
00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:49,759
Speaker 2: I am so. But that's You've done your You've done

892
00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:53,480
Speaker 2: your time, literally, and you've done your contribution to society.

893
00:47:53,560 --> 00:47:56,400
Speaker 2: Leave that up to everybody else and just focus on

894
00:47:56,440 --> 00:47:59,120
Speaker 2: getting yourself healthy and as happy as possible, because I

895
00:47:59,120 --> 00:47:59,640
Speaker 2: want you to have.

896
00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:02,120
Speaker 3: A really full life. And you know you're still young.

897
00:48:02,320 --> 00:48:05,279
Speaker 2: You have a whole life ahead of you, and this

898
00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:07,520
Speaker 2: guy's not going to be president for the rest of

899
00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:09,919
Speaker 2: our lives. This is only a four year stint, even

900
00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:12,840
Speaker 2: though you know other things have so just don't even

901
00:48:13,040 --> 00:48:14,880
Speaker 2: you know that's not your problem anymore.

902
00:48:15,239 --> 00:48:16,400
Speaker 3: But I do want to thank you.

903
00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:18,160
Speaker 2: I want all of our listeners to pick up a

904
00:48:18,160 --> 00:48:20,960
Speaker 2: copy of I Am Not Your Enemy by Reality Winner.

905
00:48:21,440 --> 00:48:24,640
Speaker 2: This book is really important and it's important to just

906
00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:27,160
Speaker 2: if you care about your country, it's important to read.

907
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:29,640
Speaker 2: And if you care about being a strong woman who

908
00:48:29,719 --> 00:48:33,560
Speaker 2: has stands up for something and has convictions, it's important

909
00:48:33,560 --> 00:48:34,200
Speaker 2: for you to read.

910
00:48:34,239 --> 00:48:35,759
Speaker 3: And it's a story about surviving.

911
00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:38,759
Speaker 2: It really is You're a survivor and you went through

912
00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:41,600
Speaker 2: you went through hell and you're still here to talk

913
00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:44,400
Speaker 2: about it, and that in and of itself just shows

914
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:48,439
Speaker 2: that you have a purpose. And so thank you for

915
00:48:48,520 --> 00:48:52,080
Speaker 2: coming on the podcast. And I really wish you all

916
00:48:52,120 --> 00:48:52,600
Speaker 2: the best.

917
00:48:53,239 --> 00:48:55,160
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me. I mean, like,

918
00:48:55,200 --> 00:48:57,640
Speaker 1: I'm such a huge fan and I just really appreciate

919
00:48:57,640 --> 00:48:58,520
Speaker 1: you taking the time.

920
00:48:59,040 --> 00:49:00,560
Speaker 3: Absolutely pleasure.

921
00:49:00,640 --> 00:49:03,960
Speaker 2: And I was just when I met Susannah and she's like, oh,

922
00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:06,000
Speaker 2: will you moderate this film? I just I was like,

923
00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:08,879
Speaker 2: oh my god, Yes, I know that story. So I

924
00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:10,680
Speaker 2: was just yeah, thrilled to be a part of that

925
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:13,200
Speaker 2: as well. And I'm going to text her right now

926
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:14,759
Speaker 2: as soon as we get off and let her know

927
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:15,600
Speaker 2: that I got to meet you.

928
00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:17,400
Speaker 1: Hey, can't wait to see her next week.

929
00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:19,880
Speaker 2: Oh good, you're gonna see her? Okay, tell her, I

930
00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:23,680
Speaker 2: say hi, will you I will? Okay, Okay, bye, Reality,

931
00:49:23,719 --> 00:49:25,680
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, sending you huge love.

932
00:49:26,120 --> 00:49:28,000
Speaker 3: Bye, Thank you bye.

933
00:49:28,560 --> 00:49:30,680
Speaker 2: I put up new Vegas dates by the way for

934
00:49:30,760 --> 00:49:34,359
Speaker 2: next year. This year, I will be there November first

935
00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:36,399
Speaker 2: and November twenty ninth. Those are my last two dates

936
00:49:36,400 --> 00:49:38,920
Speaker 2: this year. Then I start up again January thirty, first,

937
00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:43,080
Speaker 2: March seventh, April eighteenth, and May thirtieth, and tickets are

938
00:49:43,120 --> 00:49:44,640
Speaker 2: now on sale for all.

939
00:49:44,520 --> 00:49:47,280
Speaker 3: Of those dates. Do you want advice from Chelsea?

940
00:49:47,520 --> 00:49:51,000
Speaker 4: Right into Dear Chelsea Podcast at gmail dot com. Find

941
00:49:51,040 --> 00:49:54,200
Speaker 4: full video episodes of Dear Chelsea on YouTube by searching

942
00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:58,080
Speaker 4: at Dear Chelsea Pod. Dear Chelsea is edited and engineered

943
00:49:58,080 --> 00:50:01,839
Speaker 4: by Brad Dickert executive pretty Katherine law And be sure

944
00:50:01,840 --> 00:50:09,480
Speaker 4: to check out our merch at Chelseahandler dot com