Speaker 1: One thing I don't think people really realize about transman
Speaker 1: is we lose our first queer affirmations. If not all,
Speaker 1: but most of us, I would say start out in
Speaker 1: the lesbian community.
Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to another episode of Beauty Translated. Keeping
Speaker 2: with a theme of talking to guys, this week, my
Speaker 2: guest is Blake Dotson, a transman based out of Seattle,
Speaker 2: who I came to know by his Instagram handle a
Speaker 2: Queer Cowboy. In this episode, we discuss Blake's upbringing in
Speaker 2: the Pacific Northwest, his work in oncology, doing drag on horseback,
Speaker 2: the horses that are a part of his life, the
Speaker 2: concept of being partially stealth, and trans discourse from the
Speaker 2: trans mail perspective. Please enjoy my conversation with the lovely
Speaker 2: Blake Dotson. Hello, Beauty trans listeners. This week, I am
Speaker 2: here with yet another friend that I made through that
Speaker 2: horrible little app that we call Instagram. But I've made
Speaker 2: so many wonderful friends through there. He is known online
Speaker 2: as a queer cowboy, but his name is Blake Dodson. Blake,
Speaker 2: Welcome to the pod. How's it going.
Speaker 1: It's going well, pretty much rolled out of bed since
Speaker 1: it's my day off today.
Speaker 2: And you're you're over there in Seattle, is that right?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: How's the weather?
Speaker 1: It has been beautiful up until today it decided to
Speaker 1: show its Seattle so where it's crappy and rainy outside.
Speaker 2: Well beautiful. That's why I want to move there one day. Well, Blake,
Speaker 2: can you give the listeners a little bit of an
Speaker 2: introduction to who you are and maybe even tell us
Speaker 2: about the backstory of your Instagram name.
Speaker 1: I am from Seattle, not from the city itself, but
Speaker 1: from a little farmtown known for soccer, which is weird.
Speaker 1: It's in the middle of nowhere, but the biggest thing
Speaker 1: it has is it's soccer community. I didn't play soccer
Speaker 1: growing up. I played baseball, and so, yeah, rural, small farmtown.
Speaker 1: It has more gas stations and churches than anything.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so Washington sort of sounds like Atlanta in that
Speaker 2: way where you say, like Seattle is like very liberal.
Speaker 2: It's like the blue bubble, I guess. And then like
Speaker 2: everything outside of Seattle is very conservative. I'm assuming.
Speaker 1: Yep, there's still Trump signs all over everything, but I've
Speaker 1: lived in the city for a couple of years now,
Speaker 1: and then yeah, I guess some story about my Instagram
Speaker 1: name is obviously very gay, and I appreciate that cowboy
Speaker 1: culture does not acknowledge how gay it is and found
Speaker 1: some nuance in that. And I was like, well, I'm
Speaker 1: just I call myself a queer cowboy because I'm really gay,
Speaker 1: and I appreciate like cowboy culture is like naturally Rhinestoned's
Speaker 1: the way I like to think about it, but they
Speaker 1: don't like to think that. So that's kind of where
Speaker 1: I found the source of it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it feels like there has been kind of
Speaker 2: like a revival I guess of like the queerness of
Speaker 2: more country or rural roots like that. So it's really cool.
Speaker 2: I love your page, I love your content. I love
Speaker 2: seeing you with the horses and all of that kind
Speaker 2: of stuff. Can you tell us a little bit about
Speaker 2: the horses?
Speaker 1: So I used to have too. I had Ted and Fred,
Speaker 1: and I did not plan that. I had ten first,
Speaker 1: and then Fred was a gift to me from an
Speaker 1: old boss of mine that I used to clean her
Speaker 1: stalls because that's what I did for a long long time.
Speaker 1: And after my last show horse passed from cancer and
Speaker 1: she gifted me him as a companion for its head.
Speaker 1: I had the two of them for five years, and
Speaker 1: then I moved into Seattle, so I can't afford to
Speaker 1: board too because PASTI living is crazy, and so I
Speaker 1: just have Ted now, and I've had him for eight years.
Speaker 1: He's the only child I will ever have.
Speaker 2: Yeah that's a big child.
Speaker 1: Yeah he's fourteen hundred pound toddler. But yeah, I just
Speaker 1: have Ted. I've shown competitively for my whole life. Basically,
Speaker 1: I do discipline called Western pleasure, and to a gay
Speaker 1: person that probably sounds like something else.
Speaker 2: I love that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, But basically it's like pageantry on horseback. To look
Speaker 1: really disciplined, everything has to be groomed in pretty we
Speaker 1: go slow. We don't do the barrel racing or any
Speaker 1: of that. It's all slow, pretty.
Speaker 2: Uncontrolled, slow, pretty uncontrolled. Okay, yeah I can relate.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's very much like, you know, like drag centric.
Speaker 1: That's what cracks me up. There's very much a tie
Speaker 1: between like horse showing and drag.
Speaker 2: Like that culture of like pageantry.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I do the version of it that's probably
Speaker 1: the most similar to drag as well. Before I transitioned,
Speaker 1: I was showing presenting as female, and it's very much
Speaker 1: like doing drag on horseback because you do all the rhinestones,
Speaker 1: do your makeup. Here, everything is very draggy. And I've
Speaker 1: shown some of the pictures of like show wear or
Speaker 1: retire to some drag queens, you know, and they're like, wow,
Speaker 1: I would do that, and I'm like, yeah, I know.
Speaker 2: I didn't never realize how much pageantry was involved there.
Speaker 2: But tell us about like the connection between horse shows
Speaker 2: and like drag culture. Is there any more overlap there.
Speaker 1: Even how much the horse It's kind of dragged for
Speaker 1: them because ye gets all of his whiskers clipped, his
Speaker 1: ears clipped, going from springtime to summertime, he gets a
Speaker 1: full body clip, so his coat is short and shiny,
Speaker 1: and he gets bathed about three times before a show.
Speaker 1: We call it banding, where their main is in tiny
Speaker 1: little ponytails, like all the way across, so it's all
Speaker 1: like together and groomed, and then he gets hair extensions
Speaker 1: as well. Wow. The first time I showed that to
Speaker 1: my girlfriend, she lost her mind. Was like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: he has a freaking wig.
Speaker 2: And I'm like, yeah, he has a piece, yeah, a
Speaker 2: little pony piece.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's literally a piece that goes in his tail.
Speaker 1: That's like as long as his tail, and it's basically
Speaker 1: literally yeah, to just fill it out so it looks prettier.
Speaker 2: So yeah, he's doing drags.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: I am never going to look at a horse show
Speaker 2: the same ever again, knowing how much goes into the
Speaker 2: drag of it all these and the performer as well.
Speaker 2: That's amazing. Thank you for that. Yeah, I want to
Speaker 2: move on to we haven't mentioned this yet, but you
Speaker 2: work in a cancer clinic, correct?
Speaker 1: I do. My official title is a Certified Nuclear Medicine Technologist,
Speaker 1: which is really just fancy for doing medical scanning. My
Speaker 1: degree allows me to work and a lot of different
Speaker 1: kinds of imaging, but I took this job that is
Speaker 1: strictly cancer imaging.
Speaker 2: What drove you to go into cancer work in do oncology.
Speaker 1: Probably from my last horse having cancer and we didn't
Speaker 1: know how bad it was until it was bad. And
Speaker 1: I am lucky enough to not have a lot of
Speaker 1: cancer in my family, so that's not where it comes from.
Speaker 1: But horses are an integral part of my life, and
Speaker 1: I guess that's what you know was the driving force.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense, And I'm really
Speaker 2: sorry to hear about losing your horse. That way. That's
Speaker 2: horrible to lose anyone that way, much less an animal
Speaker 2: that's a part of your family. So one thing I
Speaker 2: wanted to ask you was have you encountered other trans
Speaker 2: people in your work in cancer and do you feel
Speaker 2: like there's any way that trans people get left out
Speaker 2: of conversations about cancer.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, definitely. I don't have any trans coworkers, or
Speaker 1: a very little amount of career coworkers. In fact, I've
Speaker 1: never actually had one. I've just met other people, like
Speaker 1: especially going through school and that kind of stuff, But
Speaker 1: I do have very few, but they are there trans
Speaker 1: and queer patients, and that is the main reason that
Speaker 1: I went into healthcare is it's getting larger as we
Speaker 1: age in this generation, but there are there are elders
Speaker 1: out there, and not even some elders. I have a
Speaker 1: trans paper that is my age that has an aggressive
Speaker 1: throat cancer that I've been dealing with through their treatments,
Speaker 1: And yeah, that is probably the reason that I chose
Speaker 1: to go into healthcare. And back to touching on kind
Speaker 1: of how small the population is, the hardest part for
Speaker 1: me is when I do get the very few stragglers
Speaker 1: left from the HIV pandemic where they have HIV related
Speaker 1: to them fomo. Those ones are usually where I go
Speaker 1: home cry and drink.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, that's hard, but I mean it has to
Speaker 2: be meaningful that somebody who actually cares, genuinely is there
Speaker 2: treating them. I was just going to ask you, do
Speaker 2: you feel like a lot of the people you work
Speaker 2: with are like older and like of a different generation.
Speaker 2: I know when I was a teacher, for instance, I
Speaker 2: worked with like tons of older people who are like
Speaker 2: maybe a little bit more conservative and stuff, and nurses
Speaker 2: sometimes can be that way. Is that something you encounter.
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely. Luckily in Seattle it's not so hardcore, but
Speaker 1: they are still very much a big band of straight
Speaker 1: white people that they have no idea what my actual
Speaker 1: life outside of work is like, and that kind of
Speaker 1: stuff our fair issues. I had an accounter one time
Speaker 1: where a gender queer patient I think came through and
Speaker 1: they didn't want their sex specified, and it became a
Speaker 1: big deal, like, hey, do we scan this patient male
Speaker 1: or female? And I was like, no, it really doesn't matter.
Speaker 1: The radiologist is going to interpret it as a body
Speaker 1: no matter what, So it doesn't freaking matter. And I
Speaker 1: don't like being out at work so much, so I
Speaker 1: didn't like, you know, center it back to myself and
Speaker 1: be like, well, I'm a queer and transperson. I don't
Speaker 1: like drawing attention to myself at work in that way.
Speaker 1: So I just did my best not to make it
Speaker 1: about me. But I just had to make them see
Speaker 1: this is something that people deal with, and you just
Speaker 1: have to you make yourself see it for what it is.
Speaker 1: You can't just like beat around the push about it.
Speaker 2: I can especially relate to feeling like conflicted about those
Speaker 2: types of things in a work environment, because how do
Speaker 2: you bring that up? Do you bring it up? It's
Speaker 2: always conflicting. All right, listeners, We're going to take a
Speaker 2: quick break and when we come back more from my
Speaker 2: conversation with Blake, and we're back. I wanted to get
Speaker 2: a trans man's perspective on inner community discourse, so I
Speaker 2: asked Blake to share his thoughts with us. Well, Blake,
Speaker 2: you and I obviously we met on Instagram, and you
Speaker 2: know on Instagram I have I have a reputation of
Speaker 2: being a ship poster. I'm trying to change that. I'm
Speaker 2: turning on there or a new leaf. I'm being a
Speaker 2: nice girl. Twenty twenty three. I'm day one. I'm doing
Speaker 2: really well so far. But you know, I just sometimes
Speaker 2: we have a lot of opinions, right, so sometimes we
Speaker 2: get into the the discourse. One thing I notice is
Speaker 2: that a lot of the trans inner community discourse is
Speaker 2: led by a lot of white trans women, and we
Speaker 2: don't often get people of colors perspectives in there, or
Speaker 2: even like trans mail perspectives in there. So I wanted
Speaker 2: to ask you, as a trans man, what is your
Speaker 2: take on a lot of the inner community discourse that
Speaker 2: we face.
Speaker 1: My perspective as a transman, I don't often get to
Speaker 1: vote my opinion, and neither do a lot of other
Speaker 1: transmen because in the interpersonal part of the community, like
Speaker 1: especially trans women often tell us well, you're a man,
Speaker 1: so shut up, and yeah, that's pretty much how they
Speaker 1: address it. But also we have a different socialization, I guess,
Speaker 1: compared to everyone else, especially a lot of us that
Speaker 1: didn't transition until our twenties or later on in life.
Speaker 1: We were socialized as women growing up, and so there
Speaker 1: is this hard thing for us where we're thrown in
Speaker 1: the middle of Okay, well you identify as a man now,
Speaker 1: so these people are going to perceive you as a
Speaker 1: man and tell you to shut up, and you don't
Speaker 1: get to have an opinion because you are a man.
Speaker 1: And then it's like, well, wait, I'm dealing with the
Speaker 1: same discrimination as you, so like my opinion is valid.
Speaker 1: But since we're thrown in that middle part, I don't
Speaker 1: see a lot of transmen pushing to voice their opinion
Speaker 1: because they're constantly fighting against other trans women or transphems,
Speaker 1: being like, well, you'd identify as man and that's toxic
Speaker 1: masculinity or whatever, so shut up and don't tell us
Speaker 1: how we feel or what you know.
Speaker 2: Obviously I don't advocate for that, but it's interesting because
Speaker 2: I think it's like almost projecting the way that society
Speaker 2: treats us as trans women onto trans men now that
Speaker 2: they're men. And I think we just need to kind
Speaker 2: of like smash that all together, because you know, I've
Speaker 2: touched a little bit about this on the show. No
Speaker 2: gender identity is more superior than the other sis people,
Speaker 2: trans people, trans women, trans men, all of that, Like
Speaker 2: MBI's all of that, Like no one gender identity. It's
Speaker 2: just almost like religion, right, like no one religion has
Speaker 2: the final say. But yeah, it's interesting to me, because
Speaker 2: we as trans women face that from sometimes CIS women
Speaker 2: who tell us like not to have masculine our male traits,
Speaker 2: So it's wild for us to then reflect that back
Speaker 2: onto the trans men in our community. And then there's
Speaker 2: also like I'm in the community where an event will
Speaker 2: be like, no CIS men welcome. You know, I don't
Speaker 2: know if that's something that you've ever encountered, but like,
Speaker 2: if you're a trans man who passes really, really well
Speaker 2: and people assume that you're SIS, then you know, how
Speaker 2: is that going to make you feel?
Speaker 1: I encounter that a lot because I've passed one hundred
Speaker 1: percent of the time. There's no one that ever assumes
Speaker 1: that I'm not SIS. And I deal with that in
Speaker 1: all aspects basically of my life is that I deal
Speaker 1: with that in the assists world, that they think that
Speaker 1: I'm just a CIS man and have all this privilege.
Speaker 1: I'm white passing, but I'm not necessarily white. I have
Speaker 1: a lot of Native heritage, so a lot of people, yeah,
Speaker 1: just assume I'm this CIS white man, So what does
Speaker 1: my opinion matter because I'm so privileged and all this stuff, right,
Speaker 1: And then I deal with it also in the inner
Speaker 1: workings of the queer community entry community. Because I'm a
Speaker 1: by transman and dealing with gay men and whatever. I
Speaker 1: get that part of discrimination because I'm a trans band.
Speaker 1: And then one thing that I have been talking about
Speaker 1: a lot with people online is that one thing I
Speaker 1: don't think people really realize about transman is we lose
Speaker 1: our first queer affirmations. If like, not all, but most
Speaker 1: of us, I would say, start out in the lesbian
Speaker 1: community and once you know, we come out, we're pushed
Speaker 1: out of that and basically kind of are abandoned from that,
Speaker 1: and so we lose the first queer affirmations and sense
Speaker 1: of community that we have. And that is one big
Speaker 1: problem that I have with you talking about people thinking
Speaker 1: their identity is superior to the other is, you know,
Speaker 1: we're the most oppressed in that kind of stuff, so
Speaker 1: only our opinion matters and everyone else needs to shut up.
Speaker 1: And that's kind of what I feel, as a transman
Speaker 1: has been happening to us, is that this part of
Speaker 1: our perspective is being lost because we're being silenced in
Speaker 1: that way. And that's kind of my biggest thing on
Speaker 1: what I'm having a problem with.
Speaker 2: And you know, sometimes even I'll admit, like I'm guilty
Speaker 2: of playing up just like how much trans women go
Speaker 2: through and all of that, you know, I'm guilty of
Speaker 2: acknowledging how just how much trans men equally go through
Speaker 2: as well, because transphobia affects everyone in lots of different ways.
Speaker 2: And as you said, you get it from gay men,
Speaker 2: you get it from trans women in the community, and
Speaker 2: so it's like, what is community, you know at that point.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And that's one thing, Like even some of my
Speaker 1: friends have mentioned this to me, that they don't see
Speaker 1: me having a lot of other trans male friends and
Speaker 1: I never really have because of that. And honestly, from
Speaker 1: what I get from most of the trans mass support
Speaker 1: groups off board is that most of us don't really
Speaker 1: feel like we have a sense of community, Like most
Speaker 1: of the time I don't, and it's hard to find
Speaker 1: because a lot of us feel that way. And this
Speaker 1: is just my perspective and what I've lived through, especially
Speaker 1: coming from a small town and that kind of stuff,
Speaker 1: is that it's hard to find community as a transman,
Speaker 1: especially like I've said about not being a lesbian anymore,
Speaker 1: and so like we lose that grounding from women and
Speaker 1: then other transmen, A lot of us like to stay stealth,
Speaker 1: so they don't talk about it or anything. So yeah,
Speaker 1: for us, it's like where do we go?
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's that last part you mentioned is actually
Speaker 2: one of the reasons why I've had a hard time
Speaker 2: getting transmen on the show is because I know transmen
Speaker 2: that are stealth that wish to like stay that way completely,
Speaker 2: and I respect that. But yeah, there's a lot of
Speaker 2: reasons for that. Something I wanted to touch on that
Speaker 2: you said there. Does having a partner who is a
Speaker 2: trans woman? Does that at all affirm your journey or
Speaker 2: your experience? Is that comforting to you at all?
Speaker 1: It isn't. It isn't. Especially I never thought I would
Speaker 1: be in at fort relationship, especially when I was single
Speaker 1: and that kind of stuff. I was not seeking it out,
Speaker 1: especially for me, you know, being mostly stealth in my
Speaker 1: life because like I mentioned before, I don't really talk
Speaker 1: about this kind of stuff or do interviews or any
Speaker 1: of that, because for the most part, I do live
Speaker 1: my life pretty stealth, like I'm not out of work,
Speaker 1: except for the ladies in the office figure out that
Speaker 1: I'm gay, so they like that, but they don't know
Speaker 1: that trans. But yeah, in my relationship. It doesn't really
Speaker 1: do much for me affirmation wise, you know, in my
Speaker 1: transnist or maleness and that kind of stuff, but it
Speaker 1: does do things I never really thought it would. Just
Speaker 1: being able to relate to somebody else who is trans
Speaker 1: and understands the same things that I go through and
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff, and I never thought it would
Speaker 1: be nice to have the same shot day as someone else.
Speaker 1: That's nice and cute sometimes, but it does doesn't do
Speaker 1: the things for me that I thought it was.
Speaker 2: Going to do. And that's understandable because, as you said,
Speaker 2: there are times right now, like even I'm conflicted with
Speaker 2: the fact that I'm so out and open about how
Speaker 2: I'm trans because prior to even making this podcast, I
Speaker 2: was I guess there's not really like a word for it,
Speaker 2: but it's something that I think we should talk about
Speaker 2: because it's something that a lot of people experience. But
Speaker 2: it's like partially stealth, I guess, and that's being like
Speaker 2: stealth at work, stealth to my entire partners like family
Speaker 2: and friends, and all of that aspect of being actually stealth.
Speaker 2: That can be conflicting because yeah, sometimes I have to
Speaker 2: have people to talk about these things. Too, you know,
Speaker 2: but it's hard to when you are living that life.
Speaker 2: It's kind of like good and bad because sometimes you're
Speaker 2: also like less absorbed in it and you don't care
Speaker 2: about it as much. And then part of you is like, well,
Speaker 2: I do need someone to talk about this.
Speaker 1: Also, I very much relate to that. I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: I don't need anyone, this is just me and that
Speaker 1: kind of stuff. But then there are those parts of
Speaker 1: you it's like I do need someone to talk to
Speaker 1: about this, And I think that's kind of unique to
Speaker 1: the trans male experiences. All of us kind of go
Speaker 1: through that. You know, I'm a man, I don't need
Speaker 1: anyone or that's kind of what I've experienced with the
Speaker 1: testosterone is that it makes me way less emotional. So
Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, very much, I don't need anyone to
Speaker 1: talk to. I can deal with this myself. And then
Speaker 1: you get to that point it's like, oh, I need
Speaker 1: to talk to someone about this. Does anyone relate to
Speaker 1: me that kind of stuff? And I guess that is
Speaker 1: what is kind of special about having a translationship is
Speaker 1: that you do have those points where it's like, Okay,
Speaker 1: this person gets me on a fundamental level.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, because, like I have a sist partner. If
Speaker 2: I bring up any of this trans discourse to my
Speaker 2: sister partner, he's like, what the fuck are you talking about?
Speaker 2: And I'm just like, look, this is some economy he
Speaker 2: doesn't even have. He doesn't even have social media, so
Speaker 2: he's like what And I think you know you and
Speaker 2: I that's like one thing that I'm glad that we
Speaker 2: connected over because you were one of those people. Like,
Speaker 2: even though I say I hate Instagram, you know because
Speaker 2: it really does ruin my mental health, it connects me
Speaker 2: with really awesome people like you, and we have these
Speaker 2: really cool conversations that make me realize, Okay, I'm not alone.
Speaker 2: Somebody understands what the fuck my perspective is, and so
Speaker 2: I appreciate it for that. I appreciate the horrible little
Speaker 2: app for that. And I'm glad that we followed each
Speaker 2: other because I need to know more about about the
Speaker 2: trans mail perspective myself, because there aren't really, even in
Speaker 2: my area, a lot of trans guys, and there's a
Speaker 2: ton of trans women here. It's crazy. So it's like
Speaker 2: the doll Capital.
Speaker 1: It's interesting how different regions do that. And that's another
Speaker 1: thing that a lot of people don't really think about
Speaker 1: how transmit integrate into society, because like, there are a
Speaker 1: lot of transmen in Seattle, and I know of them,
Speaker 1: but I don't speak to them, especially the ones that
Speaker 1: I don't necessarily relate to their experience, because in Seattle,
Speaker 1: something we've been messy in the DMS about as the
Speaker 1: non binary experience. But in Seattle there's a lot of
Speaker 1: non binary transmen and I'm a very binary male and
Speaker 1: I really don't relate to that, And it's kind of
Speaker 1: one thing I also think is another discourse in our
Speaker 1: community that needs to be dealt with, is that there
Speaker 1: is a big difference. I think more people are finally
Speaker 1: starting to talk about it, that there is a big
Speaker 1: difference between non binary and binary trans people. And I
Speaker 1: think it is especially pertinent to men. That I don't
Speaker 1: think a lot of people are thinking about is that No,
Speaker 1: I'm a man, period, Like there's nothing else to me.
Speaker 1: I don't identify with any of the you know, envy
Speaker 1: or trans as. They say, no, like, yeah, that's none
Speaker 1: of that is pertinent to me, And for me in Seattle,
Speaker 1: that feels really isolating for me, and I haven't really
Speaker 1: seen a lot of other areas, I guess, especially like
Speaker 1: for people that are out because they don't want to
Speaker 1: be out, especially people that like live in the South
Speaker 1: and like Texas and your area and that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1: It's like, why would they? Which I totally get it.
Speaker 2: There's probably so many transmen here that I just don't
Speaker 2: even like, you know, they just ourself and I've never
Speaker 2: even thought about it. But yeah, I'm sure that is
Speaker 2: very isolating. And I want to ask you about that too,
Speaker 2: because this is something that I notice, like with that
Speaker 2: whole kind of language, this shift in language that we've
Speaker 2: been seeing, and I think it's perfectly fine, like there's
Speaker 2: no harm being done, and saying that the trans experience
Speaker 2: and the non binary experience are different experiences, both valid,
Speaker 2: but different experiences. And I just think at this point
Speaker 2: we need to refocus on the people who are transitioning,
Speaker 2: whether that be socially or medically whatever. And what I
Speaker 2: find interesting is I feel like there's a lot more
Speaker 2: people that identify as trans mask on that spectrum than
Speaker 2: people who identify as trans femme on my end of
Speaker 2: the spectrum. Do you notice that too, and why do
Speaker 2: you think that is?
Speaker 1: I do? And one thing that I think a lot
Speaker 1: of people don't talk about because they don't really give
Speaker 1: a space to is that a lot of these people
Speaker 1: that identify as trans mask and then they don't do
Speaker 1: any performative mass presenting traits or any of that kind
Speaker 1: of stuff. Like a lot of these people that are
Speaker 1: still feminine presenting but want to claim hate him pronouns
Speaker 1: or they hear or whatever they're doing, are rejecting being
Speaker 1: identified as women because of the way that they're treated
Speaker 1: in society. And that is fine, Like, if that's the
Speaker 1: way that you know, you're dealing with trauma around that
Speaker 1: and that kind of thing. But I think people need
Speaker 1: to talk about that more because I think these people
Speaker 1: aren't necessarily trans identified. They're just dealing with their own
Speaker 1: social traumas in society, and that piece of it I
Speaker 1: think is inherently harmful to the trans experience, because no,
Speaker 1: not all of us are doing that. And then, like
Speaker 1: something that I've dealt with is the people that have
Speaker 1: been transphobic towards me have said, oh, you only identify
Speaker 1: as a man because you must have been raped or
Speaker 1: you must have had all these traumatic experiences in your life. No,
Speaker 1: that's not why identify as a man. I just am.
Speaker 1: That's why that I've always been, And that is what
Speaker 1: I think needs to be talked about. Because we're not
Speaker 1: identifying as men because something bad happened to us, or
Speaker 1: we just don't want to be women, or it's too
Speaker 1: hard to be a woman, or that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1: That is what I think needs to be talked about.
Speaker 1: In the differentiation of the trans maile.
Speaker 2: Experience, that is a very distinct differentiation. And it's hard,
Speaker 2: like when we have these conversations because like it's hard
Speaker 2: to be like it's just remind people we're trying to
Speaker 2: be as nuanced as possible, because there is a difference
Speaker 2: between somebody who plans to wants to make an effort
Speaker 2: to transition socially or medically, and then somebody who just
Speaker 2: wants like a switch up of the way that they identify.
Speaker 2: That is like the transphobic argument against trans men is like, well,
Speaker 2: you're just trying to escape, you know, the female experience
Speaker 2: or whatever. And like we say, with certain people of
Speaker 2: the trans female experience, everyone's different. It's all case by
Speaker 2: case and each person is their own unique case and
Speaker 2: it's hard to talk about with a broadbrush, but Ultimately,
Speaker 2: those of us that are transitioning socially medically are having
Speaker 2: a totally different lived experience.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's something I think about a lot because it's
Speaker 1: something that's been used against me quite a bit, especially
Speaker 1: where I come from, so not actually being in Seatutle
Speaker 1: outside of Seattle, it is very red and conservative and
Speaker 1: small town vibes, and that's where I come from. And
Speaker 1: so I came out in twenty thirteen, which was totally
Speaker 1: different time than what we're living in right now. I
Speaker 1: didn't know what a trans person was. I had nothing
Speaker 1: on TV. My parents are the straightest middle aged white
Speaker 1: people you can imagine, So I had no exposure to
Speaker 1: anything clear whatsoever except for when I hit middle school.
Speaker 1: And that's when everything kind of changed for me and
Speaker 1: came up in a time where, yeah, people didn't know
Speaker 1: what trans was. They barely understood what being gay was
Speaker 1: really and there was no language for it. And that's
Speaker 1: what I think is so interesting to living in now
Speaker 1: ten years later, is that it's like an attack on
Speaker 1: everything I know in a way. And that's what I
Speaker 1: think is the biggest distinction between trans and non binary
Speaker 1: people is that the basis of it is gender dysphoria,
Speaker 1: And for someone to tell me that I'm transphobic for
Speaker 1: thinking you need to have gender dysphoria to be trans
Speaker 1: is wildly interesting to me because in a way, why
Speaker 1: else would you transition, you know, especially being trans mask.
Speaker 1: That is my opinion on the biggest difference which we
Speaker 1: in terms of non binary men is that if you
Speaker 1: don't experience gender dysphoria in that way, why would you
Speaker 1: fight to transition to mail especially for the social controversial
Speaker 1: things that we deal with as if you don't feel
Speaker 1: that sense of dysphoria and the sense of you're not
Speaker 1: a woman and you want to distance yourself from all
Speaker 1: of that kind of stuff, That is where I find
Speaker 1: the biggest discourse in the transmansque experience is that these
Speaker 1: transmansk envs that are like, well, I'm not a woman,
Speaker 1: but I'm not a man either, but I want you
Speaker 1: to treat me as such as a man. That's where
Speaker 1: it gets the hardest for me. And then being limped
Speaker 1: into that whole situation as trans mask and that kind
Speaker 1: of stuff, that's where I get lost in it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, lost in the sauce, and we start reclaiming our
Speaker 2: roots again, are transsexual roots once again, you know, And
Speaker 2: I think that it's important to have that distinction of language,
Speaker 2: to be able to speak about our experiences so that
Speaker 2: the average Joe Schmoe can understand our experience as well,
Speaker 2: because I think if we lump it all together, it
Speaker 2: just becomes really confusing for people, especially trans people. I'm confused,
Speaker 2: you know. And I've been like transitioning for like more
Speaker 2: than fifteen years, and I say that like I'm trying
Speaker 2: to understand every day. I'm trying to understand, like truly, truly, truly,
Speaker 2: because I want us to be able to move to
Speaker 2: a point of peace. And really, what I want us
Speaker 2: to do is just be able to combat this horrible
Speaker 2: wave of legislation and transphobia and violence that we've been facing.
Speaker 2: But I would love it if we could do that
Speaker 2: with people being honest about how oppressed they really are.
Speaker 2: Maybe we should take a quick break and we'll be
Speaker 2: back with some closing thoughts from Blake, And we're back,
Speaker 2: all right, Blake. I really appreciate you for coming on
Speaker 2: sharing your perspective because I do believe that more transmen
Speaker 2: need to be heard, and I'm trying to make an
Speaker 2: effort to do that. Also, I'm sorry that being interviewed
Speaker 2: is not your favorite thing. That I really really appreciate
Speaker 2: you for coming on today. It was a fantastic chat.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Thanks, I appreciate you trying to do that, because
Speaker 1: I do think that it is an issue that a
Speaker 1: lot of us aren't being heard or given the space
Speaker 1: to do this kind of thing, especially when it comes
Speaker 1: to like we talked about the kind of what people
Speaker 1: are viewing as the hierarchy of oppression in our own community,
Speaker 1: which isn't a thing, but they're making it out to
Speaker 1: be exactly exactly.
Speaker 2: We create like this artificial dichotomies and artificial hierarchies, and
Speaker 2: then they become like this thing for people to gain
Speaker 2: social clout from, and it's like kind of crazy because
Speaker 2: we're all just looking for community. Again, thank you for
Speaker 2: coming on. Can you tell people where to find you?
Speaker 2: Follow you? Do you want people to find you and
Speaker 2: follow you?
Speaker 1: You're really cute to be honest, because I also don't
Speaker 1: care about social media. The only thing I use is
Speaker 1: the Badman's app on Instagram, which you mentioned per Cowboy. Yes,
Speaker 1: I never found out how to use Twitter, and I've
Speaker 1: got that I did it because that is accessful something
Speaker 1: else agreed.
Speaker 2: I don't even want to get involved, and I was
Speaker 2: just talking to somebody else about this earlier today, Like
Speaker 2: if I was on Twitter, didn'ld be a shit show. Okay. Anyway,
Speaker 2: we'll close out there. Thank you so much for coming.
Speaker 1: On, Blake, Yeah, thanks for having me.
Speaker 2: Beauty Translated is hosted by me Carmen Laurent and produced
Speaker 2: by Kurt Garon and Jessica Crime Chicch with production assistance
Speaker 2: from Jennifer Bassett. Special thanks to Ali Perry and Ali
Speaker 2: Cantor for their support. Our theme song is composed by
Speaker 2: Aaron Kaufman. Beauty Translated is proud to be part of
Speaker 2: the Outspoken network from iHeart Podcasts. For more iHeart Podcasts,
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