WEBVTT - Becoming Blake Dotson: A Queer Cowboy 0:00:04.559 --> 0:00:07.440 One thing I don't think people really realize about transman 0:00:07.760 --> 0:00:12.120 is we lose our first queer affirmations. If not all, 0:00:12.240 --> 0:00:14.680 but most of us, I would say start out in 0:00:14.680 --> 0:00:15.640 the lesbian community. 0:00:17.880 --> 0:00:21.800 Hello, and welcome to another episode of Beauty Translated. Keeping 0:00:21.840 --> 0:00:24.560 with a theme of talking to guys, this week, my 0:00:24.640 --> 0:00:28.360 guest is Blake Dotson, a transman based out of Seattle, 0:00:28.680 --> 0:00:31.200 who I came to know by his Instagram handle a 0:00:31.280 --> 0:00:35.519 Queer Cowboy. In this episode, we discuss Blake's upbringing in 0:00:35.560 --> 0:00:40.400 the Pacific Northwest, his work in oncology, doing drag on horseback, 0:00:40.880 --> 0:00:43.199 the horses that are a part of his life, the 0:00:43.280 --> 0:00:47.839 concept of being partially stealth, and trans discourse from the 0:00:47.880 --> 0:00:52.280 trans mail perspective. Please enjoy my conversation with the lovely 0:00:52.520 --> 0:01:02.120 Blake Dotson. Hello, Beauty trans listeners. This week, I am 0:01:02.160 --> 0:01:05.360 here with yet another friend that I made through that 0:01:05.959 --> 0:01:10.480 horrible little app that we call Instagram. But I've made 0:01:10.480 --> 0:01:13.600 so many wonderful friends through there. He is known online 0:01:13.680 --> 0:01:18.199 as a queer cowboy, but his name is Blake Dodson. Blake, 0:01:18.280 --> 0:01:19.920 Welcome to the pod. How's it going. 0:01:20.800 --> 0:01:23.480 It's going well, pretty much rolled out of bed since 0:01:23.480 --> 0:01:25.120 it's my day off today. 0:01:26.360 --> 0:01:28.800 And you're you're over there in Seattle, is that right? 0:01:29.160 --> 0:01:30.119 Yeah? 0:01:30.120 --> 0:01:30.919 How's the weather? 0:01:32.120 --> 0:01:35.480 It has been beautiful up until today it decided to 0:01:35.600 --> 0:01:41.039 show its Seattle so where it's crappy and rainy outside. 0:01:40.560 --> 0:01:45.040 Well beautiful. That's why I want to move there one day. Well, Blake, 0:01:45.280 --> 0:01:47.760 can you give the listeners a little bit of an 0:01:47.800 --> 0:01:51.360 introduction to who you are and maybe even tell us 0:01:51.440 --> 0:01:54.160 about the backstory of your Instagram name. 0:01:55.440 --> 0:01:59.760 I am from Seattle, not from the city itself, but 0:02:00.120 --> 0:02:06.080 from a little farmtown known for soccer, which is weird. 0:02:06.440 --> 0:02:09.359 It's in the middle of nowhere, but the biggest thing 0:02:09.400 --> 0:02:12.960 it has is it's soccer community. I didn't play soccer 0:02:12.960 --> 0:02:19.800 growing up. I played baseball, and so, yeah, rural, small farmtown. 0:02:19.919 --> 0:02:23.800 It has more gas stations and churches than anything. 0:02:24.000 --> 0:02:26.160 Yeah, so Washington sort of sounds like Atlanta in that 0:02:26.200 --> 0:02:28.720 way where you say, like Seattle is like very liberal. 0:02:28.760 --> 0:02:31.120 It's like the blue bubble, I guess. And then like 0:02:31.639 --> 0:02:35.000 everything outside of Seattle is very conservative. I'm assuming. 0:02:35.680 --> 0:02:38.880 Yep, there's still Trump signs all over everything, but I've 0:02:38.880 --> 0:02:41.919 lived in the city for a couple of years now, 0:02:42.680 --> 0:02:46.440 and then yeah, I guess some story about my Instagram 0:02:46.520 --> 0:02:53.160 name is obviously very gay, and I appreciate that cowboy 0:02:53.200 --> 0:02:57.960 culture does not acknowledge how gay it is and found 0:02:58.000 --> 0:02:59.720 some nuance in that. And I was like, well, I'm 0:02:59.760 --> 0:03:03.080 just I call myself a queer cowboy because I'm really gay, 0:03:03.240 --> 0:03:08.919 and I appreciate like cowboy culture is like naturally Rhinestoned's 0:03:09.000 --> 0:03:10.720 the way I like to think about it, but they 0:03:10.720 --> 0:03:13.840 don't like to think that. So that's kind of where 0:03:13.880 --> 0:03:15.440 I found the source of it. 0:03:16.400 --> 0:03:18.080 Yeah, and it feels like there has been kind of 0:03:18.120 --> 0:03:21.400 like a revival I guess of like the queerness of 0:03:21.760 --> 0:03:26.000 more country or rural roots like that. So it's really cool. 0:03:26.240 --> 0:03:28.440 I love your page, I love your content. I love 0:03:28.520 --> 0:03:30.960 seeing you with the horses and all of that kind 0:03:31.000 --> 0:03:33.160 of stuff. Can you tell us a little bit about 0:03:33.400 --> 0:03:33.960 the horses? 0:03:34.760 --> 0:03:37.400 So I used to have too. I had Ted and Fred, 0:03:37.560 --> 0:03:41.680 and I did not plan that. I had ten first, 0:03:41.880 --> 0:03:45.040 and then Fred was a gift to me from an 0:03:45.080 --> 0:03:48.080 old boss of mine that I used to clean her 0:03:48.160 --> 0:03:51.320 stalls because that's what I did for a long long time. 0:03:52.200 --> 0:03:55.920 And after my last show horse passed from cancer and 0:03:56.000 --> 0:03:59.880 she gifted me him as a companion for its head. 0:04:00.720 --> 0:04:04.160 I had the two of them for five years, and 0:04:04.240 --> 0:04:08.200 then I moved into Seattle, so I can't afford to 0:04:08.240 --> 0:04:12.720 board too because PASTI living is crazy, and so I 0:04:12.800 --> 0:04:16.440 just have Ted now, and I've had him for eight years. 0:04:16.680 --> 0:04:18.680 He's the only child I will ever have. 0:04:20.560 --> 0:04:21.599 Yeah that's a big child. 0:04:21.839 --> 0:04:27.120 Yeah he's fourteen hundred pound toddler. But yeah, I just 0:04:27.120 --> 0:04:31.960 have Ted. I've shown competitively for my whole life. Basically, 0:04:32.640 --> 0:04:36.040 I do discipline called Western pleasure, and to a gay 0:04:36.080 --> 0:04:38.119 person that probably sounds like something else. 0:04:40.640 --> 0:04:41.360 I love that. 0:04:41.760 --> 0:04:45.920 Yeah, But basically it's like pageantry on horseback. To look 0:04:46.400 --> 0:04:50.359 really disciplined, everything has to be groomed in pretty we 0:04:50.440 --> 0:04:53.320 go slow. We don't do the barrel racing or any 0:04:53.320 --> 0:04:55.479 of that. It's all slow, pretty. 0:04:55.200 --> 0:04:59.400 Uncontrolled, slow, pretty uncontrolled. Okay, yeah I can relate. 0:05:01.600 --> 0:05:05.239 Yeah, it's very much like, you know, like drag centric. 0:05:05.279 --> 0:05:08.080 That's what cracks me up. There's very much a tie 0:05:08.120 --> 0:05:10.400 between like horse showing and drag. 0:05:10.560 --> 0:05:12.240 Like that culture of like pageantry. 0:05:12.600 --> 0:05:16.080 Yeah, yeah, I do the version of it that's probably 0:05:16.080 --> 0:05:20.040 the most similar to drag as well. Before I transitioned, 0:05:20.240 --> 0:05:23.680 I was showing presenting as female, and it's very much 0:05:24.360 --> 0:05:27.680 like doing drag on horseback because you do all the rhinestones, 0:05:27.880 --> 0:05:33.400 do your makeup. Here, everything is very draggy. And I've 0:05:33.440 --> 0:05:37.120 shown some of the pictures of like show wear or 0:05:37.160 --> 0:05:40.480 retire to some drag queens, you know, and they're like, wow, 0:05:40.520 --> 0:05:42.120 I would do that, and I'm like, yeah, I know. 0:05:43.680 --> 0:05:47.039 I didn't never realize how much pageantry was involved there. 0:05:47.240 --> 0:05:51.160 But tell us about like the connection between horse shows 0:05:51.200 --> 0:05:54.760 and like drag culture. Is there any more overlap there. 0:05:54.960 --> 0:05:57.680 Even how much the horse It's kind of dragged for 0:05:57.720 --> 0:06:02.000 them because ye gets all of his whiskers clipped, his 0:06:02.080 --> 0:06:05.320 ears clipped, going from springtime to summertime, he gets a 0:06:05.360 --> 0:06:08.960 full body clip, so his coat is short and shiny, 0:06:09.720 --> 0:06:12.800 and he gets bathed about three times before a show. 0:06:13.920 --> 0:06:17.159 We call it banding, where their main is in tiny 0:06:17.200 --> 0:06:20.240 little ponytails, like all the way across, so it's all 0:06:20.320 --> 0:06:24.200 like together and groomed, and then he gets hair extensions 0:06:24.240 --> 0:06:29.360 as well. Wow. The first time I showed that to 0:06:29.400 --> 0:06:33.200 my girlfriend, she lost her mind. Was like, oh my god, 0:06:33.279 --> 0:06:34.920 he has a freaking wig. 0:06:34.960 --> 0:06:40.039 And I'm like, yeah, he has a piece, yeah, a 0:06:40.040 --> 0:06:40.960 little pony piece. 0:06:41.160 --> 0:06:44.760 Yeah, it's literally a piece that goes in his tail. 0:06:44.839 --> 0:06:47.880 That's like as long as his tail, and it's basically 0:06:47.960 --> 0:06:50.440 literally yeah, to just fill it out so it looks prettier. 0:06:50.800 --> 0:06:52.520 So yeah, he's doing drags. 0:06:52.920 --> 0:06:53.120 Wow. 0:06:53.680 --> 0:06:55.320 I am never going to look at a horse show 0:06:55.640 --> 0:07:00.320 the same ever again, knowing how much goes into the 0:07:00.440 --> 0:07:04.120 drag of it all these and the performer as well. 0:07:04.120 --> 0:07:07.560 That's amazing. Thank you for that. Yeah, I want to 0:07:07.600 --> 0:07:11.040 move on to we haven't mentioned this yet, but you 0:07:11.120 --> 0:07:13.160 work in a cancer clinic, correct? 0:07:13.680 --> 0:07:18.760 I do. My official title is a Certified Nuclear Medicine Technologist, 0:07:19.000 --> 0:07:25.080 which is really just fancy for doing medical scanning. My 0:07:25.160 --> 0:07:27.760 degree allows me to work and a lot of different 0:07:27.840 --> 0:07:31.720 kinds of imaging, but I took this job that is 0:07:31.880 --> 0:07:33.320 strictly cancer imaging. 0:07:33.720 --> 0:07:37.600 What drove you to go into cancer work in do oncology. 0:07:37.760 --> 0:07:42.400 Probably from my last horse having cancer and we didn't 0:07:42.480 --> 0:07:46.160 know how bad it was until it was bad. And 0:07:46.560 --> 0:07:48.400 I am lucky enough to not have a lot of 0:07:48.400 --> 0:07:51.880 cancer in my family, so that's not where it comes from. 0:07:51.920 --> 0:07:55.800 But horses are an integral part of my life, and 0:07:56.280 --> 0:07:59.680 I guess that's what you know was the driving force. 0:08:00.880 --> 0:08:02.600 Yeah, that makes a lot of sense, And I'm really 0:08:02.640 --> 0:08:06.160 sorry to hear about losing your horse. That way. That's 0:08:06.440 --> 0:08:09.440 horrible to lose anyone that way, much less an animal 0:08:09.480 --> 0:08:12.400 that's a part of your family. So one thing I 0:08:12.400 --> 0:08:16.560 wanted to ask you was have you encountered other trans 0:08:16.600 --> 0:08:19.800 people in your work in cancer and do you feel 0:08:19.840 --> 0:08:22.000 like there's any way that trans people get left out 0:08:22.000 --> 0:08:23.960 of conversations about cancer. 0:08:24.240 --> 0:08:29.920 Oh yeah, definitely. I don't have any trans coworkers, or 0:08:29.960 --> 0:08:33.480 a very little amount of career coworkers. In fact, I've 0:08:33.520 --> 0:08:36.640 never actually had one. I've just met other people, like 0:08:36.760 --> 0:08:39.400 especially going through school and that kind of stuff, But 0:08:39.480 --> 0:08:43.600 I do have very few, but they are there trans 0:08:43.640 --> 0:08:47.120 and queer patients, and that is the main reason that 0:08:47.160 --> 0:08:51.760 I went into healthcare is it's getting larger as we 0:08:51.960 --> 0:08:55.440 age in this generation, but there are there are elders 0:08:55.480 --> 0:08:59.280 out there, and not even some elders. I have a 0:08:59.480 --> 0:09:03.880 trans paper that is my age that has an aggressive 0:09:03.920 --> 0:09:08.640 throat cancer that I've been dealing with through their treatments, 0:09:08.920 --> 0:09:12.360 And yeah, that is probably the reason that I chose 0:09:12.360 --> 0:09:16.120 to go into healthcare. And back to touching on kind 0:09:16.120 --> 0:09:18.920 of how small the population is, the hardest part for 0:09:19.000 --> 0:09:22.839 me is when I do get the very few stragglers 0:09:22.920 --> 0:09:27.840 left from the HIV pandemic where they have HIV related 0:09:27.840 --> 0:09:31.280 to them fomo. Those ones are usually where I go 0:09:31.360 --> 0:09:32.240 home cry and drink. 0:09:33.840 --> 0:09:37.360 Yeah. Yeah, that's hard, but I mean it has to 0:09:37.400 --> 0:09:42.120 be meaningful that somebody who actually cares, genuinely is there 0:09:42.200 --> 0:09:44.600 treating them. I was just going to ask you, do 0:09:44.640 --> 0:09:46.760 you feel like a lot of the people you work 0:09:46.800 --> 0:09:50.160 with are like older and like of a different generation. 0:09:50.360 --> 0:09:51.880 I know when I was a teacher, for instance, I 0:09:51.920 --> 0:09:53.640 worked with like tons of older people who are like 0:09:53.679 --> 0:09:56.880 maybe a little bit more conservative and stuff, and nurses 0:09:56.920 --> 0:09:59.280 sometimes can be that way. Is that something you encounter. 0:09:59.679 --> 0:10:03.560 Yeah, definitely. Luckily in Seattle it's not so hardcore, but 0:10:03.960 --> 0:10:08.280 they are still very much a big band of straight 0:10:08.320 --> 0:10:11.520 white people that they have no idea what my actual 0:10:11.559 --> 0:10:14.679 life outside of work is like, and that kind of 0:10:14.679 --> 0:10:18.400 stuff our fair issues. I had an accounter one time 0:10:18.559 --> 0:10:22.520 where a gender queer patient I think came through and 0:10:22.559 --> 0:10:28.640 they didn't want their sex specified, and it became a 0:10:28.640 --> 0:10:31.679 big deal, like, hey, do we scan this patient male 0:10:31.800 --> 0:10:34.079 or female? And I was like, no, it really doesn't matter. 0:10:34.240 --> 0:10:36.920 The radiologist is going to interpret it as a body 0:10:36.920 --> 0:10:42.559 no matter what, So it doesn't freaking matter. And I 0:10:42.600 --> 0:10:46.040 don't like being out at work so much, so I 0:10:46.080 --> 0:10:48.120 didn't like, you know, center it back to myself and 0:10:48.160 --> 0:10:52.640 be like, well, I'm a queer and transperson. I don't 0:10:52.720 --> 0:10:55.800 like drawing attention to myself at work in that way. 0:10:55.880 --> 0:10:58.480 So I just did my best not to make it 0:10:58.480 --> 0:11:01.000 about me. But I just had to make them see 0:11:01.200 --> 0:11:04.960 this is something that people deal with, and you just 0:11:05.960 --> 0:11:09.080 have to you make yourself see it for what it is. 0:11:09.160 --> 0:11:11.079 You can't just like beat around the push about it. 0:11:11.520 --> 0:11:15.719 I can especially relate to feeling like conflicted about those 0:11:15.760 --> 0:11:18.760 types of things in a work environment, because how do 0:11:18.760 --> 0:11:20.520 you bring that up? Do you bring it up? It's 0:11:20.559 --> 0:11:23.480 always conflicting. All right, listeners, We're going to take a 0:11:23.559 --> 0:11:26.320 quick break and when we come back more from my 0:11:26.400 --> 0:11:41.280 conversation with Blake, and we're back. I wanted to get 0:11:41.320 --> 0:11:45.000 a trans man's perspective on inner community discourse, so I 0:11:45.040 --> 0:11:48.480 asked Blake to share his thoughts with us. Well, Blake, 0:11:48.720 --> 0:11:51.880 you and I obviously we met on Instagram, and you 0:11:51.960 --> 0:11:55.240 know on Instagram I have I have a reputation of 0:11:55.280 --> 0:11:59.600 being a ship poster. I'm trying to change that. I'm 0:11:59.640 --> 0:12:01.760 turning on there or a new leaf. I'm being a 0:12:01.880 --> 0:12:06.240 nice girl. Twenty twenty three. I'm day one. I'm doing 0:12:06.360 --> 0:12:12.920 really well so far. But you know, I just sometimes 0:12:12.960 --> 0:12:16.440 we have a lot of opinions, right, so sometimes we 0:12:16.480 --> 0:12:19.560 get into the the discourse. One thing I notice is 0:12:19.600 --> 0:12:22.839 that a lot of the trans inner community discourse is 0:12:22.920 --> 0:12:26.160 led by a lot of white trans women, and we 0:12:26.160 --> 0:12:30.840 don't often get people of colors perspectives in there, or 0:12:30.880 --> 0:12:33.720 even like trans mail perspectives in there. So I wanted 0:12:33.760 --> 0:12:36.640 to ask you, as a trans man, what is your 0:12:36.679 --> 0:12:40.040 take on a lot of the inner community discourse that 0:12:40.080 --> 0:12:40.480 we face. 0:12:42.880 --> 0:12:47.320 My perspective as a transman, I don't often get to 0:12:47.440 --> 0:12:49.800 vote my opinion, and neither do a lot of other 0:12:49.840 --> 0:12:54.040 transmen because in the interpersonal part of the community, like 0:12:54.120 --> 0:12:57.199 especially trans women often tell us well, you're a man, 0:12:57.280 --> 0:13:00.240 so shut up, and yeah, that's pretty much how they 0:13:00.240 --> 0:13:06.240 address it. But also we have a different socialization, I guess, 0:13:06.400 --> 0:13:08.600 compared to everyone else, especially a lot of us that 0:13:08.800 --> 0:13:12.520 didn't transition until our twenties or later on in life. 0:13:12.679 --> 0:13:18.680 We were socialized as women growing up, and so there 0:13:19.080 --> 0:13:22.040 is this hard thing for us where we're thrown in 0:13:22.040 --> 0:13:24.280 the middle of Okay, well you identify as a man now, 0:13:24.360 --> 0:13:26.320 so these people are going to perceive you as a 0:13:26.360 --> 0:13:28.120 man and tell you to shut up, and you don't 0:13:28.160 --> 0:13:30.120 get to have an opinion because you are a man. 0:13:30.760 --> 0:13:33.520 And then it's like, well, wait, I'm dealing with the 0:13:33.520 --> 0:13:38.880 same discrimination as you, so like my opinion is valid. 0:13:39.000 --> 0:13:42.840 But since we're thrown in that middle part, I don't 0:13:42.880 --> 0:13:46.439 see a lot of transmen pushing to voice their opinion 0:13:46.559 --> 0:13:50.960 because they're constantly fighting against other trans women or transphems, 0:13:51.000 --> 0:13:55.079 being like, well, you'd identify as man and that's toxic 0:13:55.240 --> 0:13:58.719 masculinity or whatever, so shut up and don't tell us 0:13:58.720 --> 0:14:01.000 how we feel or what you know. 0:14:01.040 --> 0:14:04.760 Obviously I don't advocate for that, but it's interesting because 0:14:05.000 --> 0:14:10.000 I think it's like almost projecting the way that society 0:14:10.080 --> 0:14:14.240 treats us as trans women onto trans men now that 0:14:14.280 --> 0:14:16.960 they're men. And I think we just need to kind 0:14:17.000 --> 0:14:20.800 of like smash that all together, because you know, I've 0:14:20.800 --> 0:14:22.960 touched a little bit about this on the show. No 0:14:23.120 --> 0:14:28.560 gender identity is more superior than the other sis people, 0:14:28.760 --> 0:14:32.760 trans people, trans women, trans men, all of that, Like 0:14:33.120 --> 0:14:36.520 MBI's all of that, Like no one gender identity. It's 0:14:36.560 --> 0:14:39.520 just almost like religion, right, like no one religion has 0:14:39.640 --> 0:14:43.840 the final say. But yeah, it's interesting to me, because 0:14:43.960 --> 0:14:48.120 we as trans women face that from sometimes CIS women 0:14:48.960 --> 0:14:52.240 who tell us like not to have masculine our male traits, 0:14:52.280 --> 0:14:55.880 So it's wild for us to then reflect that back 0:14:55.960 --> 0:14:59.400 onto the trans men in our community. And then there's 0:14:59.400 --> 0:15:02.200 also like I'm in the community where an event will 0:15:02.240 --> 0:15:06.000 be like, no CIS men welcome. You know, I don't 0:15:06.000 --> 0:15:08.280 know if that's something that you've ever encountered, but like, 0:15:08.320 --> 0:15:12.280 if you're a trans man who passes really, really well 0:15:12.320 --> 0:15:16.400 and people assume that you're SIS, then you know, how 0:15:16.440 --> 0:15:17.600 is that going to make you feel? 0:15:18.160 --> 0:15:21.280 I encounter that a lot because I've passed one hundred 0:15:21.320 --> 0:15:23.840 percent of the time. There's no one that ever assumes 0:15:23.880 --> 0:15:30.359 that I'm not SIS. And I deal with that in 0:15:30.440 --> 0:15:34.240 all aspects basically of my life is that I deal 0:15:34.240 --> 0:15:36.720 with that in the assists world, that they think that 0:15:36.840 --> 0:15:40.440 I'm just a CIS man and have all this privilege. 0:15:40.920 --> 0:15:44.000 I'm white passing, but I'm not necessarily white. I have 0:15:44.200 --> 0:15:48.040 a lot of Native heritage, so a lot of people, yeah, 0:15:48.200 --> 0:15:50.960 just assume I'm this CIS white man, So what does 0:15:51.160 --> 0:15:55.120 my opinion matter because I'm so privileged and all this stuff, right, 0:15:55.280 --> 0:15:58.240 And then I deal with it also in the inner 0:15:58.520 --> 0:16:02.240 workings of the queer community entry community. Because I'm a 0:16:03.280 --> 0:16:08.720 by transman and dealing with gay men and whatever. I 0:16:08.760 --> 0:16:12.200 get that part of discrimination because I'm a trans band. 0:16:12.560 --> 0:16:16.840 And then one thing that I have been talking about 0:16:16.880 --> 0:16:20.760 a lot with people online is that one thing I 0:16:20.760 --> 0:16:24.480 don't think people really realize about transman is we lose 0:16:24.640 --> 0:16:29.120 our first queer affirmations. If like, not all, but most 0:16:29.120 --> 0:16:31.440 of us, I would say, start out in the lesbian 0:16:31.480 --> 0:16:35.080 community and once you know, we come out, we're pushed 0:16:35.080 --> 0:16:38.760 out of that and basically kind of are abandoned from that, 0:16:38.920 --> 0:16:42.480 and so we lose the first queer affirmations and sense 0:16:42.520 --> 0:16:47.200 of community that we have. And that is one big 0:16:47.240 --> 0:16:50.560 problem that I have with you talking about people thinking 0:16:50.800 --> 0:16:54.160 their identity is superior to the other is, you know, 0:16:54.200 --> 0:16:56.400 we're the most oppressed in that kind of stuff, so 0:16:57.160 --> 0:16:59.680 only our opinion matters and everyone else needs to shut up. 0:17:00.280 --> 0:17:04.240 And that's kind of what I feel, as a transman 0:17:04.320 --> 0:17:07.600 has been happening to us, is that this part of 0:17:07.640 --> 0:17:11.320 our perspective is being lost because we're being silenced in 0:17:11.359 --> 0:17:15.000 that way. And that's kind of my biggest thing on 0:17:15.119 --> 0:17:16.760 what I'm having a problem with. 0:17:17.280 --> 0:17:19.920 And you know, sometimes even I'll admit, like I'm guilty 0:17:20.320 --> 0:17:24.480 of playing up just like how much trans women go 0:17:24.600 --> 0:17:26.919 through and all of that, you know, I'm guilty of 0:17:27.040 --> 0:17:30.840 acknowledging how just how much trans men equally go through 0:17:30.880 --> 0:17:38.160 as well, because transphobia affects everyone in lots of different ways. 0:17:38.440 --> 0:17:41.080 And as you said, you get it from gay men, 0:17:41.200 --> 0:17:43.639 you get it from trans women in the community, and 0:17:43.760 --> 0:17:47.320 so it's like, what is community, you know at that point. 0:17:47.800 --> 0:17:50.399 Yeah, And that's one thing, Like even some of my 0:17:50.520 --> 0:17:53.960 friends have mentioned this to me, that they don't see 0:17:54.000 --> 0:17:57.640 me having a lot of other trans male friends and 0:17:58.000 --> 0:18:01.400 I never really have because of that. And honestly, from 0:18:01.400 --> 0:18:05.240 what I get from most of the trans mass support 0:18:05.280 --> 0:18:09.159 groups off board is that most of us don't really 0:18:09.440 --> 0:18:12.240 feel like we have a sense of community, Like most 0:18:12.240 --> 0:18:14.920 of the time I don't, and it's hard to find 0:18:15.080 --> 0:18:17.800 because a lot of us feel that way. And this 0:18:17.880 --> 0:18:21.119 is just my perspective and what I've lived through, especially 0:18:21.720 --> 0:18:24.000 coming from a small town and that kind of stuff, 0:18:24.119 --> 0:18:26.840 is that it's hard to find community as a transman, 0:18:27.080 --> 0:18:30.600 especially like I've said about not being a lesbian anymore, 0:18:30.840 --> 0:18:35.960 and so like we lose that grounding from women and 0:18:36.000 --> 0:18:39.479 then other transmen, A lot of us like to stay stealth, 0:18:39.960 --> 0:18:44.359 so they don't talk about it or anything. So yeah, 0:18:44.480 --> 0:18:45.880 for us, it's like where do we go? 0:18:46.400 --> 0:18:48.720 Yeah, and it's that last part you mentioned is actually 0:18:49.280 --> 0:18:51.360 one of the reasons why I've had a hard time 0:18:51.440 --> 0:18:55.119 getting transmen on the show is because I know transmen 0:18:55.640 --> 0:18:59.880 that are stealth that wish to like stay that way completely, 0:19:00.000 --> 0:19:02.080 and I respect that. But yeah, there's a lot of 0:19:02.119 --> 0:19:04.320 reasons for that. Something I wanted to touch on that 0:19:04.359 --> 0:19:07.879 you said there. Does having a partner who is a 0:19:07.880 --> 0:19:10.800 trans woman? Does that at all affirm your journey or 0:19:10.840 --> 0:19:13.160 your experience? Is that comforting to you at all? 0:19:13.840 --> 0:19:17.960 It isn't. It isn't. Especially I never thought I would 0:19:18.000 --> 0:19:22.320 be in at fort relationship, especially when I was single 0:19:22.359 --> 0:19:24.520 and that kind of stuff. I was not seeking it out, 0:19:25.280 --> 0:19:30.600 especially for me, you know, being mostly stealth in my 0:19:30.720 --> 0:19:34.400 life because like I mentioned before, I don't really talk 0:19:34.440 --> 0:19:37.480 about this kind of stuff or do interviews or any 0:19:37.520 --> 0:19:40.840 of that, because for the most part, I do live 0:19:40.880 --> 0:19:43.359 my life pretty stealth, like I'm not out of work, 0:19:43.800 --> 0:19:47.000 except for the ladies in the office figure out that 0:19:47.040 --> 0:19:49.439 I'm gay, so they like that, but they don't know 0:19:49.600 --> 0:19:54.200 that trans. But yeah, in my relationship. It doesn't really 0:19:54.240 --> 0:19:57.040 do much for me affirmation wise, you know, in my 0:19:57.920 --> 0:20:00.520 transnist or maleness and that kind of stuff, but it 0:20:00.520 --> 0:20:03.719 does do things I never really thought it would. Just 0:20:03.760 --> 0:20:07.160 being able to relate to somebody else who is trans 0:20:07.320 --> 0:20:10.760 and understands the same things that I go through and 0:20:11.119 --> 0:20:13.640 that kind of stuff, and I never thought it would 0:20:13.640 --> 0:20:16.480 be nice to have the same shot day as someone else. 0:20:16.840 --> 0:20:22.600 That's nice and cute sometimes, but it does doesn't do 0:20:22.720 --> 0:20:24.120 the things for me that I thought it was. 0:20:24.080 --> 0:20:27.200 Going to do. And that's understandable because, as you said, 0:20:27.359 --> 0:20:30.359 there are times right now, like even I'm conflicted with 0:20:30.640 --> 0:20:34.840 the fact that I'm so out and open about how 0:20:35.040 --> 0:20:39.080 I'm trans because prior to even making this podcast, I 0:20:39.200 --> 0:20:42.280 was I guess there's not really like a word for it, 0:20:42.359 --> 0:20:44.520 but it's something that I think we should talk about 0:20:44.560 --> 0:20:47.119 because it's something that a lot of people experience. But 0:20:47.119 --> 0:20:50.879 it's like partially stealth, I guess, and that's being like 0:20:52.440 --> 0:20:57.920 stealth at work, stealth to my entire partners like family 0:20:58.160 --> 0:21:00.760 and friends, and all of that aspect of being actually stealth. 0:21:00.840 --> 0:21:04.199 That can be conflicting because yeah, sometimes I have to 0:21:04.880 --> 0:21:07.119 have people to talk about these things. Too, you know, 0:21:07.560 --> 0:21:10.880 but it's hard to when you are living that life. 0:21:10.960 --> 0:21:12.840 It's kind of like good and bad because sometimes you're 0:21:12.840 --> 0:21:14.800 also like less absorbed in it and you don't care 0:21:14.800 --> 0:21:17.320 about it as much. And then part of you is like, well, 0:21:17.400 --> 0:21:19.399 I do need someone to talk about this. 0:21:19.680 --> 0:21:22.960 Also, I very much relate to that. I'm like, oh, 0:21:22.960 --> 0:21:25.439 I don't need anyone, this is just me and that 0:21:25.520 --> 0:21:28.639 kind of stuff. But then there are those parts of 0:21:28.640 --> 0:21:30.800 you it's like I do need someone to talk to 0:21:30.840 --> 0:21:35.359 about this, And I think that's kind of unique to 0:21:35.640 --> 0:21:38.399 the trans male experiences. All of us kind of go 0:21:38.480 --> 0:21:41.720 through that. You know, I'm a man, I don't need 0:21:41.760 --> 0:21:45.480 anyone or that's kind of what I've experienced with the 0:21:45.520 --> 0:21:49.160 testosterone is that it makes me way less emotional. So 0:21:49.240 --> 0:21:52.679 I'm like, yeah, very much, I don't need anyone to 0:21:52.720 --> 0:21:55.639 talk to. I can deal with this myself. And then 0:21:56.119 --> 0:21:58.240 you get to that point it's like, oh, I need 0:21:58.280 --> 0:22:01.479 to talk to someone about this. Does anyone relate to 0:22:01.520 --> 0:22:04.280 me that kind of stuff? And I guess that is 0:22:04.320 --> 0:22:07.159 what is kind of special about having a translationship is 0:22:07.160 --> 0:22:11.000 that you do have those points where it's like, Okay, 0:22:11.520 --> 0:22:14.760 this person gets me on a fundamental level. 0:22:14.960 --> 0:22:18.240 Yeah, absolutely, because, like I have a sist partner. If 0:22:18.280 --> 0:22:20.200 I bring up any of this trans discourse to my 0:22:20.280 --> 0:22:23.080 sister partner, he's like, what the fuck are you talking about? 0:22:23.160 --> 0:22:25.600 And I'm just like, look, this is some economy he 0:22:25.600 --> 0:22:28.000 doesn't even have. He doesn't even have social media, so 0:22:28.040 --> 0:22:30.000 he's like what And I think you know you and 0:22:30.040 --> 0:22:32.399 I that's like one thing that I'm glad that we 0:22:32.480 --> 0:22:35.639 connected over because you were one of those people. Like, 0:22:35.680 --> 0:22:38.520 even though I say I hate Instagram, you know because 0:22:38.560 --> 0:22:41.399 it really does ruin my mental health, it connects me 0:22:41.440 --> 0:22:44.560 with really awesome people like you, and we have these 0:22:44.600 --> 0:22:48.040 really cool conversations that make me realize, Okay, I'm not alone. 0:22:48.520 --> 0:22:53.000 Somebody understands what the fuck my perspective is, and so 0:22:53.440 --> 0:22:56.200 I appreciate it for that. I appreciate the horrible little 0:22:56.200 --> 0:22:58.840 app for that. And I'm glad that we followed each 0:22:58.880 --> 0:23:01.879 other because I need to know more about about the 0:23:01.880 --> 0:23:05.840 trans mail perspective myself, because there aren't really, even in 0:23:05.880 --> 0:23:09.560 my area, a lot of trans guys, and there's a 0:23:09.600 --> 0:23:12.840 ton of trans women here. It's crazy. So it's like 0:23:12.880 --> 0:23:13.720 the doll Capital. 0:23:13.920 --> 0:23:17.879 It's interesting how different regions do that. And that's another 0:23:17.920 --> 0:23:20.160 thing that a lot of people don't really think about 0:23:20.480 --> 0:23:24.399 how transmit integrate into society, because like, there are a 0:23:24.560 --> 0:23:27.920 lot of transmen in Seattle, and I know of them, 0:23:27.960 --> 0:23:30.399 but I don't speak to them, especially the ones that 0:23:30.440 --> 0:23:34.240 I don't necessarily relate to their experience, because in Seattle, 0:23:34.560 --> 0:23:36.879 something we've been messy in the DMS about as the 0:23:36.960 --> 0:23:41.520