1 00:00:15,436 --> 00:00:25,356 Speaker 1: Pushkin. I thought, you know, maybe twenty thousand dollars, thirty 2 00:00:25,396 --> 00:00:28,116 Speaker 1: thousand dollars or something like that. This is Josh Green. 3 00:00:28,796 --> 00:00:30,716 Speaker 1: You might remember him from a past episode of The 4 00:00:30,716 --> 00:00:33,796 Speaker 1: Happiness Lab that we recorded last year. Josh is a 5 00:00:33,836 --> 00:00:36,716 Speaker 1: psychology professor at Harvard. But he didn't come on the 6 00:00:36,716 --> 00:00:40,356 Speaker 1: show just to talk about scientific studies. Josh wanted your 7 00:00:40,396 --> 00:00:44,676 Speaker 1: money and my money, and wow, were we generous. It 8 00:00:44,716 --> 00:00:47,076 Speaker 1: was clear early on that he's going over a quarter 9 00:00:47,116 --> 00:00:49,196 Speaker 1: of a million dollars. I was like, oh my gosh, 10 00:00:49,476 --> 00:00:52,036 Speaker 1: I was just absolutely blown away. And it wasn't just 11 00:00:52,076 --> 00:00:53,996 Speaker 1: like it was a bit more than I expected. It's 12 00:00:54,036 --> 00:00:57,156 Speaker 1: just stunning in the most delightful way. Josh is a 13 00:00:57,156 --> 00:01:00,436 Speaker 1: proponent of what's been called effective altruism. He thinks each 14 00:01:00,476 --> 00:01:02,156 Speaker 1: and every one of us should be trying to help 15 00:01:02,196 --> 00:01:04,556 Speaker 1: and in some cases even save the lives of the 16 00:01:04,596 --> 00:01:07,356 Speaker 1: people around us whenever we can, and he's found that 17 00:01:07,436 --> 00:01:09,396 Speaker 1: one of the best ways to do that is not 18 00:01:09,476 --> 00:01:12,196 Speaker 1: just by donating money to charity, but by making sure 19 00:01:12,236 --> 00:01:15,516 Speaker 1: that every cent we donate counts. That's why he set 20 00:01:15,596 --> 00:01:19,316 Speaker 1: up a new website called giving Multiplier dot org, or 21 00:01:19,356 --> 00:01:21,436 Speaker 1: you can give money to your favorite cause at the 22 00:01:21,476 --> 00:01:24,116 Speaker 1: same time as you donate to the most effective charities 23 00:01:24,116 --> 00:01:26,756 Speaker 1: on the planet. Once we're just a few of your 24 00:01:26,796 --> 00:01:29,636 Speaker 1: dollars will stop someone from going blind or catching a 25 00:01:29,676 --> 00:01:32,836 Speaker 1: deadly illness. I think people are kind of stunned to 26 00:01:32,956 --> 00:01:36,436 Speaker 1: learn how much farther your money can go, how much 27 00:01:36,436 --> 00:01:38,636 Speaker 1: more impact you can have if you can pick the 28 00:01:38,716 --> 00:01:40,436 Speaker 1: right charity, right. I mean that people think like, oh, 29 00:01:40,476 --> 00:01:42,116 Speaker 1: if you gave twice as much, that would be doing 30 00:01:42,116 --> 00:01:45,356 Speaker 1: a lot more. But if you choose wisely, you can 31 00:01:45,396 --> 00:01:47,316 Speaker 1: have an impact that's one hundred times more or a 32 00:01:47,396 --> 00:01:50,156 Speaker 1: thousand times more, supporting the kind of charities that really 33 00:01:50,156 --> 00:01:51,996 Speaker 1: get a lot of bang for their buck, or address 34 00:01:52,076 --> 00:01:55,956 Speaker 1: issues that are of just enormous importance and where we 35 00:01:55,956 --> 00:01:58,196 Speaker 1: have some ideas about what we can do to prevent 36 00:01:58,276 --> 00:02:01,596 Speaker 1: catastrophes and things like that. So last year, following the 37 00:02:01,596 --> 00:02:05,556 Speaker 1: post Thanksgiving consumer bananzas that are Black Friday and Cyber Monday, 38 00:02:06,036 --> 00:02:08,236 Speaker 1: Josh came on the Happiness Lab for the lesser known 39 00:02:08,316 --> 00:02:11,876 Speaker 1: holiday of Tuesday. He offered us a chance to spend 40 00:02:11,916 --> 00:02:13,916 Speaker 1: on other people in a way that can have an 41 00:02:13,916 --> 00:02:17,556 Speaker 1: extra big impact. He shared the u RL giving multiplier 42 00:02:17,716 --> 00:02:20,436 Speaker 1: dot org slash Happiness Lab that we could use to 43 00:02:20,476 --> 00:02:22,956 Speaker 1: donate both to a cause of our choice and to 44 00:02:23,036 --> 00:02:27,196 Speaker 1: one of those effective charities identified by experts. Giving multiplier 45 00:02:27,276 --> 00:02:30,676 Speaker 1: dot org also match some of our donations. I went 46 00:02:30,716 --> 00:02:32,836 Speaker 1: to the website and gave, and so did members of 47 00:02:32,836 --> 00:02:35,516 Speaker 1: the production team and many listeners who who heard Josh 48 00:02:35,516 --> 00:02:38,196 Speaker 1: on the show. All of us felt a little happier 49 00:02:38,276 --> 00:02:40,716 Speaker 1: having done some good in the world, but I didn't 50 00:02:40,756 --> 00:02:43,596 Speaker 1: quite realize just how much money we'd all raised and 51 00:02:43,676 --> 00:02:47,036 Speaker 1: how much good we'd really done. I was stunned. Your 52 00:02:47,076 --> 00:02:50,116 Speaker 1: audience just has this sweet spot of hard and head 53 00:02:50,236 --> 00:02:52,836 Speaker 1: right people who really care not only want to feel 54 00:02:52,836 --> 00:02:54,396 Speaker 1: better in their own lives, but really want to improve 55 00:02:54,436 --> 00:02:56,956 Speaker 1: other people's lives. But also I get that the world 56 00:02:57,036 --> 00:02:59,676 Speaker 1: is complicated and that you need to think, and you 57 00:02:59,756 --> 00:03:02,356 Speaker 1: need to do research, and you need experts who can 58 00:03:02,436 --> 00:03:05,876 Speaker 1: guide you. And I think that magic combination is just 59 00:03:06,196 --> 00:03:10,396 Speaker 1: comes together in the Happiness Lab podcast and listeners. I'm 60 00:03:10,396 --> 00:03:12,156 Speaker 1: not going to tell you the exact amount of money 61 00:03:12,196 --> 00:03:15,396 Speaker 1: we collectively donated quite yet, because where would be the 62 00:03:15,436 --> 00:03:18,036 Speaker 1: fun in that. First, I want to dive into the 63 00:03:18,076 --> 00:03:20,996 Speaker 1: science of giving and the powerful link between donating to 64 00:03:21,036 --> 00:03:23,796 Speaker 1: a good cause and boosting your own well being, because 65 00:03:23,796 --> 00:03:26,116 Speaker 1: the science shows that giving money to help someone else 66 00:03:26,476 --> 00:03:29,516 Speaker 1: often feels better than keeping it for ourselves, no matter 67 00:03:29,556 --> 00:03:33,676 Speaker 1: how much that goes against our intuitions. Our minds are 68 00:03:33,676 --> 00:03:36,036 Speaker 1: constantly telling us what to do to be happy. But 69 00:03:36,116 --> 00:03:38,476 Speaker 1: what if our minds are wrong, What if our minds 70 00:03:38,516 --> 00:03:40,996 Speaker 1: are lying to us, leading us away from will really 71 00:03:41,036 --> 00:03:43,956 Speaker 1: make us happy. The good news is that understanding the 72 00:03:43,996 --> 00:03:45,916 Speaker 1: science of the mind can point us all back in 73 00:03:46,036 --> 00:03:49,476 Speaker 1: the right direction. You're listening to the Happiness Lab with 74 00:03:49,596 --> 00:03:59,876 Speaker 1: doctor Laurie Sanders. People say money can't buy happiness, but 75 00:03:59,996 --> 00:04:03,356 Speaker 1: research shows that's not quite true. We can use our 76 00:04:03,396 --> 00:04:06,316 Speaker 1: money to buy ourselves out of pesky tasks we prefer 77 00:04:06,436 --> 00:04:09,116 Speaker 1: not to do and free up our time to spend 78 00:04:09,436 --> 00:04:13,596 Speaker 1: more enjoyable activities and more enjoyable people. This is Laura Acnet. 79 00:04:13,876 --> 00:04:16,356 Speaker 1: You know those meal prep services you here advertised on 80 00:04:16,396 --> 00:04:19,676 Speaker 1: podcasts a lot. Laura decided to try one out when 81 00:04:19,676 --> 00:04:22,316 Speaker 1: her sister in law bought her a voucher. I remember 82 00:04:22,356 --> 00:04:23,996 Speaker 1: thinking like, oh, this will be fun to try for 83 00:04:24,036 --> 00:04:26,716 Speaker 1: a week or two, but I have been so pleasantly 84 00:04:26,756 --> 00:04:29,996 Speaker 1: surprised by how this is freed up my time. I 85 00:04:30,036 --> 00:04:31,876 Speaker 1: don't need to meal prep as much, I don't need 86 00:04:31,916 --> 00:04:34,636 Speaker 1: to deal with buying all those groceries. I also don't 87 00:04:34,636 --> 00:04:37,036 Speaker 1: need to do all the pesky chopping that is often 88 00:04:37,116 --> 00:04:38,996 Speaker 1: involved and hard to do with a four year old 89 00:04:39,036 --> 00:04:41,316 Speaker 1: kind of tugging at my sweater. So I have been 90 00:04:41,356 --> 00:04:44,236 Speaker 1: a firm believer of using my money to buy myself 91 00:04:44,276 --> 00:04:46,396 Speaker 1: out of neal prep over the last few years, and 92 00:04:46,436 --> 00:04:48,596 Speaker 1: it has brought me happiness and probably relieved a lot 93 00:04:48,596 --> 00:04:51,156 Speaker 1: of frustration at the same time. We often assume that 94 00:04:51,196 --> 00:04:54,356 Speaker 1: buying ourselves things new clothes, a shiny car, or a 95 00:04:54,436 --> 00:04:57,956 Speaker 1: nicer cell phone will bring us happiness. But acquiring new 96 00:04:57,956 --> 00:05:01,036 Speaker 1: possessions doesn't feel as good as we usually hope, and 97 00:05:01,196 --> 00:05:03,916 Speaker 1: research shows that the well being boost we do experience 98 00:05:04,156 --> 00:05:07,996 Speaker 1: is pretty short lived. But research also shows, as Laura 99 00:05:08,076 --> 00:05:10,716 Speaker 1: has found, that you money to buy time can lead 100 00:05:10,756 --> 00:05:13,476 Speaker 1: to a boost in well being. But as a professor 101 00:05:13,516 --> 00:05:17,316 Speaker 1: of social psychology as Simon Fraser University, Laura has begun 102 00:05:17,396 --> 00:05:20,876 Speaker 1: studying an even more surprising way to trade dollars for happiness, 103 00:05:21,476 --> 00:05:24,796 Speaker 1: and that way, well, it involves just giving those dollars away. 104 00:05:25,756 --> 00:05:29,716 Speaker 1: Laura's research examines the psychological consequences of what's known as 105 00:05:29,756 --> 00:05:33,276 Speaker 1: pro social spending. I asked Laura, exactly what counts as 106 00:05:33,316 --> 00:05:37,236 Speaker 1: pro social spending. Well, it can take a very formalized approach, 107 00:05:37,236 --> 00:05:39,796 Speaker 1: where we might be donating money to our favorite charity 108 00:05:40,076 --> 00:05:42,196 Speaker 1: on a one off occasion. It might be something that 109 00:05:42,276 --> 00:05:45,316 Speaker 1: is more systematic, where we have payroll deductions each month, 110 00:05:45,556 --> 00:05:47,676 Speaker 1: or it can be in many ways that are much 111 00:05:47,716 --> 00:05:49,996 Speaker 1: more interpersonal. So it could be treating a best friend 112 00:05:50,036 --> 00:05:52,916 Speaker 1: to coffee or taking a new colleague out for dinner. 113 00:05:53,276 --> 00:05:55,716 Speaker 1: It doesn't need to be large and substantial, but in 114 00:05:55,756 --> 00:05:58,556 Speaker 1: any way kind of using our money to benefit other people. 115 00:05:58,716 --> 00:06:00,356 Speaker 1: And so, how have we figured out that this is 116 00:06:00,396 --> 00:06:02,436 Speaker 1: really good for our happiness? You start with some of 117 00:06:02,476 --> 00:06:04,796 Speaker 1: the correlational studies that you and others have worked on. 118 00:06:05,036 --> 00:06:07,756 Speaker 1: People who use their time in generous ways tend to 119 00:06:07,796 --> 00:06:10,556 Speaker 1: report higher levels of happiness. In fact, there are large 120 00:06:10,556 --> 00:06:13,396 Speaker 1: international surveys that have documented this for quite some time. 121 00:06:13,556 --> 00:06:15,596 Speaker 1: But over the last couple of years of my colleagues 122 00:06:15,596 --> 00:06:17,756 Speaker 1: and I have tried to examine whether people who use 123 00:06:17,836 --> 00:06:21,756 Speaker 1: their money to help others might also report being happier. 124 00:06:21,796 --> 00:06:24,156 Speaker 1: And so, in one of our first papers on this topic, 125 00:06:24,556 --> 00:06:27,396 Speaker 1: we recruited a large sample of over six hundred participants 126 00:06:27,396 --> 00:06:29,836 Speaker 1: and asked them to simply tell us how they spend 127 00:06:29,956 --> 00:06:32,996 Speaker 1: their money in a typical month. To avoid the painstaking 128 00:06:33,036 --> 00:06:35,556 Speaker 1: detail of listing and going through bank accounts, we asked 129 00:06:35,556 --> 00:06:37,916 Speaker 1: them to simply give us estimates of how much they 130 00:06:37,956 --> 00:06:41,596 Speaker 1: spent on One category was bills and expenses, another category 131 00:06:41,676 --> 00:06:44,116 Speaker 1: was gifts for themselves. Those were both considered kind of 132 00:06:44,156 --> 00:06:47,076 Speaker 1: personal directed spending, so spending on oneself, but we also 133 00:06:47,116 --> 00:06:50,956 Speaker 1: asked about two prosocial categories. One involved spending money on 134 00:06:50,996 --> 00:06:54,796 Speaker 1: others by way of gifts and the others charitable donations. 135 00:06:54,916 --> 00:06:57,956 Speaker 1: And using those monthly estimates, what we did was we 136 00:06:57,996 --> 00:07:00,916 Speaker 1: also looked at people's happiness reports and saw how people 137 00:07:00,916 --> 00:07:03,876 Speaker 1: spent their money in a typical month predicted their monthly happiness. 138 00:07:04,076 --> 00:07:06,276 Speaker 1: And what we found was that how much money people 139 00:07:06,316 --> 00:07:08,756 Speaker 1: spent on themselves in a typical month, to our surprise, 140 00:07:08,756 --> 00:07:11,156 Speaker 1: did not predict their happiness, but how much money they 141 00:07:11,156 --> 00:07:13,436 Speaker 1: spent on others did, such that the more they spend 142 00:07:13,476 --> 00:07:16,316 Speaker 1: on others, the happier they reported feeling. This is while 143 00:07:16,316 --> 00:07:18,516 Speaker 1: we were controlling for household income and so it wasn't 144 00:07:18,556 --> 00:07:21,116 Speaker 1: just that these folks had more money to spend and 145 00:07:21,156 --> 00:07:23,396 Speaker 1: could have the luxury of spending on others. But even 146 00:07:23,436 --> 00:07:25,796 Speaker 1: holding that constant, people who spent more on others in 147 00:07:25,796 --> 00:07:28,036 Speaker 1: a typical month we're happier. I mean, it's such a 148 00:07:28,156 --> 00:07:31,396 Speaker 1: violation of what we normally think of that brings us happiness. 149 00:07:31,396 --> 00:07:33,916 Speaker 1: I mean, I hope this isn't just my very selfish intuitions, 150 00:07:33,956 --> 00:07:35,636 Speaker 1: but I have the sense like when I'm buying myself 151 00:07:35,676 --> 00:07:38,196 Speaker 1: more stuff, I'm going to wind up happier than when 152 00:07:38,196 --> 00:07:40,196 Speaker 1: I'm buying stuff for other people. But that seems to 153 00:07:40,196 --> 00:07:42,956 Speaker 1: be not the case, which is pretty weird. Yeah, having 154 00:07:42,996 --> 00:07:46,116 Speaker 1: more money is confusingly related to how happy we are. 155 00:07:46,156 --> 00:07:48,956 Speaker 1: It seems to the lower level predict our levels of happiness, 156 00:07:48,956 --> 00:07:50,636 Speaker 1: and then it tapers off. And I think part of 157 00:07:50,676 --> 00:07:52,956 Speaker 1: that has to do with this hedonic adaptation. We buy 158 00:07:52,996 --> 00:07:55,876 Speaker 1: more for ourselves and then expect more and we seem 159 00:07:55,916 --> 00:07:58,676 Speaker 1: to be unsatisfied. But when we're spending money on others, 160 00:07:58,716 --> 00:08:01,396 Speaker 1: we can see this positive impact we're having on other people. 161 00:08:01,436 --> 00:08:04,836 Speaker 1: We could strengthen social relationships, which is such a robust 162 00:08:04,836 --> 00:08:07,516 Speaker 1: predictor of happiness. We are truly social animals, and so 163 00:08:07,556 --> 00:08:08,996 Speaker 1: I think any time we can go out of our 164 00:08:09,116 --> 00:08:11,796 Speaker 1: way to forge connections with other people and strengthen those 165 00:08:11,796 --> 00:08:13,956 Speaker 1: that we have. We're on a pretty clear path to 166 00:08:14,116 --> 00:08:16,956 Speaker 1: pursuing greater happiness for ourselves. But one of the things 167 00:08:16,956 --> 00:08:19,636 Speaker 1: you find is that even when people are donating to charities, 168 00:08:19,636 --> 00:08:22,236 Speaker 1: so the moneys socially spent on someone they don't meet, 169 00:08:22,316 --> 00:08:24,796 Speaker 1: this too, can really have an effect on people's happiness. Right. 170 00:08:24,916 --> 00:08:28,116 Speaker 1: The short edgwer is Yes. My suspicion is that it 171 00:08:28,236 --> 00:08:31,236 Speaker 1: might be kind of an overfiring of this response. So 172 00:08:31,276 --> 00:08:33,276 Speaker 1: I think in many of our lives, and especially through 173 00:08:33,316 --> 00:08:35,836 Speaker 1: our ancestral past, many times we gave. We were often 174 00:08:35,876 --> 00:08:38,036 Speaker 1: giving in face to face ways in which we could 175 00:08:38,036 --> 00:08:40,916 Speaker 1: build these relationships and see the positive impact of our gifts. 176 00:08:40,916 --> 00:08:43,356 Speaker 1: And sometimes charities, even when we don't give face to 177 00:08:43,396 --> 00:08:45,876 Speaker 1: face and we don't know the beneficiary, charities can still 178 00:08:45,876 --> 00:08:48,116 Speaker 1: do a very good job of translating how they're going 179 00:08:48,116 --> 00:08:50,396 Speaker 1: to use this money to help other people. There are 180 00:08:50,436 --> 00:08:52,716 Speaker 1: some charities that do a fantastic job of that and 181 00:08:52,876 --> 00:08:54,756 Speaker 1: others where it's almost as if you're giving it to 182 00:08:54,796 --> 00:08:57,676 Speaker 1: the ether and into the black hole. And in those situations, 183 00:08:57,676 --> 00:09:00,116 Speaker 1: I think giving can sometimes fall a little flat. Well, 184 00:09:00,116 --> 00:09:02,676 Speaker 1: we can imagine or get some feedback on how our 185 00:09:02,716 --> 00:09:05,916 Speaker 1: gifts are helping other people. When there's this disconnected we're 186 00:09:05,956 --> 00:09:09,676 Speaker 1: not forging a relationship with someone we might ever received 187 00:09:09,756 --> 00:09:11,956 Speaker 1: from or received back from in the future. We can 188 00:09:11,996 --> 00:09:14,316 Speaker 1: still feel really good about giving. And so the results 189 00:09:14,356 --> 00:09:16,756 Speaker 1: we've been talking about so far are all correlations, and 190 00:09:16,916 --> 00:09:19,836 Speaker 1: as nerdy scientists, we tend to always use this phrase 191 00:09:19,876 --> 00:09:22,716 Speaker 1: that correlation does not equal causation. So to really find 192 00:09:22,716 --> 00:09:25,196 Speaker 1: out if pro social spending boosts our well being, we 193 00:09:25,236 --> 00:09:27,196 Speaker 1: have to do an experiment. But this is something that 194 00:09:27,196 --> 00:09:29,716 Speaker 1: you've actually done sort of forced people to spread pro 195 00:09:29,756 --> 00:09:31,956 Speaker 1: socially as it were. Yeah, in fact, we've done it 196 00:09:31,956 --> 00:09:33,996 Speaker 1: lots of times now and it's one of my favorite 197 00:09:33,996 --> 00:09:36,676 Speaker 1: parts of the job because I mean, we've done this 198 00:09:36,716 --> 00:09:40,436 Speaker 1: in different ways, and so in some of our big experiments, 199 00:09:40,436 --> 00:09:42,836 Speaker 1: what we do is we bring students into the lab 200 00:09:42,996 --> 00:09:46,756 Speaker 1: and they sit privately by themselves, and it's this intricately 201 00:09:46,796 --> 00:09:48,756 Speaker 1: designed study. But the heart of the matter is is 202 00:09:48,756 --> 00:09:51,396 Speaker 1: that people report their baseline levels of happiness and then 203 00:09:51,436 --> 00:09:54,956 Speaker 1: they receive this extra small windfall of money, usually around 204 00:09:55,036 --> 00:09:57,556 Speaker 1: three dollars and so we're not talking large amounts here, 205 00:09:57,596 --> 00:09:59,956 Speaker 1: and we tell people that with this money they can 206 00:09:59,996 --> 00:10:03,236 Speaker 1: purchase a goodie bag that is filled with edible treats 207 00:10:03,236 --> 00:10:06,036 Speaker 1: like juice or chocolate bars, and they get to pick 208 00:10:06,076 --> 00:10:08,196 Speaker 1: what they'd like to put in this goodie bag. And then, 209 00:10:08,716 --> 00:10:11,836 Speaker 1: using an experimental method, we randomly assign some people to 210 00:10:11,916 --> 00:10:14,076 Speaker 1: a personal condition where they're told that if they buy 211 00:10:14,076 --> 00:10:15,996 Speaker 1: this goodie bag, it's for them to keep and they'll 212 00:10:16,036 --> 00:10:18,116 Speaker 1: pick it up at the conclusion of the experiment. But 213 00:10:18,116 --> 00:10:20,436 Speaker 1: at the other condition, people are randomly assigned to this 214 00:10:20,476 --> 00:10:22,996 Speaker 1: pro social spending condition, where we tell them that their 215 00:10:23,036 --> 00:10:25,116 Speaker 1: goodie bag will be donated to a sick kid at 216 00:10:25,156 --> 00:10:27,956 Speaker 1: a local children's hospital. It's important to let people feel 217 00:10:27,996 --> 00:10:29,916 Speaker 1: that there is a true choice and so they are 218 00:10:29,956 --> 00:10:32,076 Speaker 1: allowed to keep the money for themselves. But I would 219 00:10:32,116 --> 00:10:35,196 Speaker 1: say ninety seven percent of people across these large studies 220 00:10:35,276 --> 00:10:37,676 Speaker 1: choose to purchase the goodie bag in both conditions, and 221 00:10:37,716 --> 00:10:40,356 Speaker 1: so almost everybody follows through with a personal or pro 222 00:10:40,436 --> 00:10:43,596 Speaker 1: social spending purchase. They go, they see the goodie bag purchased, 223 00:10:43,596 --> 00:10:45,716 Speaker 1: and then they return back to their seat and privately 224 00:10:45,756 --> 00:10:48,356 Speaker 1: report how they're feeling. And what we find time and 225 00:10:48,396 --> 00:10:51,116 Speaker 1: time again is that people who purchase basically the exact 226 00:10:51,116 --> 00:10:53,356 Speaker 1: same items for a sick kid at a local children's 227 00:10:53,356 --> 00:10:56,396 Speaker 1: hospital report feeling higher levels of happiness than people who 228 00:10:56,436 --> 00:10:59,636 Speaker 1: buy the same items for themselves, which is really cool, right, 229 00:10:59,676 --> 00:11:02,476 Speaker 1: because it's exactly the same item, right, it's the same purchase. 230 00:11:02,596 --> 00:11:05,236 Speaker 1: Everybody's purchasing the goodie bag. But if you don't get 231 00:11:05,276 --> 00:11:07,316 Speaker 1: it right, if you don't personally benefit from the goodie bag, 232 00:11:07,356 --> 00:11:10,476 Speaker 1: it winds up improving how you feel. Yeah, and we do, 233 00:11:10,516 --> 00:11:12,396 Speaker 1: I mean, for what it's worth, we certainly do go 234 00:11:12,476 --> 00:11:14,756 Speaker 1: deliver these goodie bags. I think it's important that people 235 00:11:14,756 --> 00:11:17,156 Speaker 1: actually see the goodie bag. They physically see it packaged, 236 00:11:17,196 --> 00:11:18,796 Speaker 1: and so they don't think we're pulling the wool over 237 00:11:18,836 --> 00:11:21,276 Speaker 1: their eyes. They've gotten to make the choice that they 238 00:11:21,276 --> 00:11:23,836 Speaker 1: want to give, which is I think an important precondition 239 00:11:23,876 --> 00:11:26,276 Speaker 1: for feeling good about giving. But they can also really 240 00:11:26,316 --> 00:11:29,196 Speaker 1: imagine how their gift is going to help another person, 241 00:11:29,596 --> 00:11:32,276 Speaker 1: because this goodie bag is very tangible. It's visible in 242 00:11:32,276 --> 00:11:34,076 Speaker 1: front of their eyes, and they know. Where I'm based 243 00:11:34,076 --> 00:11:36,996 Speaker 1: in Vancouver, there's a very well recognized and well respected 244 00:11:37,036 --> 00:11:39,716 Speaker 1: local children's charity, and we named that one in particular, 245 00:11:39,996 --> 00:11:42,556 Speaker 1: and so I think most of our participants can imagine 246 00:11:42,556 --> 00:11:44,556 Speaker 1: this goodie bag and how it might really brighten the 247 00:11:44,636 --> 00:11:47,036 Speaker 1: day of someone who's experiencing a very tough time. And 248 00:11:47,116 --> 00:11:50,116 Speaker 1: so you mentioned doing these studies in Vancouver, and I 249 00:11:50,156 --> 00:11:52,796 Speaker 1: think that's kind of important too. I think sometimes when 250 00:11:52,836 --> 00:11:54,756 Speaker 1: we talk about the kinds of things we can do 251 00:11:54,796 --> 00:11:57,836 Speaker 1: to improve our well being, there's always this worry that, well, yeah, 252 00:11:57,876 --> 00:12:01,956 Speaker 1: that might work for American or Canadian folks, but you know, 253 00:12:02,076 --> 00:12:04,596 Speaker 1: is this really the kind of thing that's true cross culturally? 254 00:12:04,876 --> 00:12:06,636 Speaker 1: And I think one of the things that's amazing about 255 00:12:06,676 --> 00:12:08,396 Speaker 1: your work is that you haven't done the thing that 256 00:12:08,436 --> 00:12:10,996 Speaker 1: many social seists do, or you just test people around you. 257 00:12:10,996 --> 00:12:12,436 Speaker 1: You've actually tried to look at whether or not pro 258 00:12:12,516 --> 00:12:15,196 Speaker 1: social spending works across the world. And so what have 259 00:12:15,236 --> 00:12:17,836 Speaker 1: you found. We have found that there is some consistent 260 00:12:17,876 --> 00:12:20,676 Speaker 1: evidence for this finding around the world. So my colleagues 261 00:12:20,716 --> 00:12:22,276 Speaker 1: and I have really, like you say, tried to go 262 00:12:22,356 --> 00:12:24,476 Speaker 1: out of our way and try to test our understanding 263 00:12:24,476 --> 00:12:27,156 Speaker 1: of how far this relationship might expand. And what we 264 00:12:27,196 --> 00:12:29,276 Speaker 1: have argued is that this might represent what we call 265 00:12:29,316 --> 00:12:33,076 Speaker 1: a psychological universal, so finding that is detectable in most 266 00:12:33,156 --> 00:12:35,796 Speaker 1: humans around the globe. And so to test this question, 267 00:12:35,916 --> 00:12:39,556 Speaker 1: we have run experiments in South Africa and Uganda. I've 268 00:12:39,556 --> 00:12:42,716 Speaker 1: traveled to a small village in Vanuatu where there is 269 00:12:42,756 --> 00:12:46,876 Speaker 1: no running water, there's no electricity, their food comes from 270 00:12:46,996 --> 00:12:49,396 Speaker 1: local crops, and only that most people have never left 271 00:12:49,396 --> 00:12:52,196 Speaker 1: this small village and even still here. Using kind of 272 00:12:52,236 --> 00:12:55,996 Speaker 1: conceptual replications of our original design, we see very similar patterns. 273 00:12:56,116 --> 00:12:58,036 Speaker 1: So it's not just around the world, but my colleagues 274 00:12:58,036 --> 00:13:00,116 Speaker 1: and I have also tried to test whether this emerges 275 00:13:00,236 --> 00:13:03,076 Speaker 1: early in development. So in children under the age of two, 276 00:13:03,276 --> 00:13:05,836 Speaker 1: we find that kids it's not necessarily money per se, 277 00:13:05,876 --> 00:13:08,636 Speaker 1: but the emotional rewards of giving can be detectable, with 278 00:13:08,716 --> 00:13:12,436 Speaker 1: kids giving away small treats to a puppet who seems 279 00:13:12,436 --> 00:13:15,436 Speaker 1: to really enjoy the goldfish crackers they give, as opposed 280 00:13:15,476 --> 00:13:18,276 Speaker 1: to when they are receiving treats themselves. And so even 281 00:13:18,356 --> 00:13:21,516 Speaker 1: here early in development, we're seeing that humans feel good 282 00:13:21,516 --> 00:13:24,676 Speaker 1: about giving and giving even when it's costly. And I 283 00:13:24,716 --> 00:13:27,756 Speaker 1: love these developmental findings in the little kids because I 284 00:13:27,756 --> 00:13:30,636 Speaker 1: think if there's any group of participants we think of 285 00:13:30,676 --> 00:13:33,596 Speaker 1: as incredibly selfish, it's like, you know, toddlers with their 286 00:13:33,756 --> 00:13:36,556 Speaker 1: like goldfish crackers, but even they're kind of giving these 287 00:13:36,596 --> 00:13:39,236 Speaker 1: things away is making you feel better. Yeah, it's really 288 00:13:39,236 --> 00:13:41,396 Speaker 1: a pleasure to watch these videos because the kids are 289 00:13:41,476 --> 00:13:43,796 Speaker 1: gifted this like small stash on their own. And over 290 00:13:43,836 --> 00:13:45,556 Speaker 1: the course of a few minutes, we ask you know, 291 00:13:45,596 --> 00:13:48,156 Speaker 1: will you give one of your treats to monkey? Will 292 00:13:48,196 --> 00:13:50,196 Speaker 1: you give one of the experimenters treats to monkey? And 293 00:13:50,236 --> 00:13:52,796 Speaker 1: they simply watch the experiment or give a treat to monkey. 294 00:13:52,956 --> 00:13:55,556 Speaker 1: And on both occasions of giving, kids are smiling more 295 00:13:55,596 --> 00:13:58,236 Speaker 1: when they're giving away than when they're receiving. But in 296 00:13:58,276 --> 00:14:00,956 Speaker 1: our Vancouver based study we also found and Vaniwatsu, we 297 00:14:00,996 --> 00:14:03,476 Speaker 1: also found the kids smiled more when giving away a 298 00:14:03,476 --> 00:14:06,156 Speaker 1: treat that belonged to them than an identical treat that 299 00:14:06,196 --> 00:14:08,676 Speaker 1: did not. And I think that's a really critical comparison 300 00:14:08,756 --> 00:14:10,996 Speaker 1: because kids are giving the same treat to the same 301 00:14:11,076 --> 00:14:13,676 Speaker 1: person who responds the exact same way, and the only 302 00:14:13,756 --> 00:14:16,556 Speaker 1: key difference is whether it costs them something, and it's 303 00:14:16,556 --> 00:14:19,036 Speaker 1: in that occasion when they are smiling more. And so 304 00:14:19,076 --> 00:14:21,276 Speaker 1: I think that provides us some clues to the idea 305 00:14:21,356 --> 00:14:24,676 Speaker 1: that this might be a really emotionally rewarding activity. It 306 00:14:24,796 --> 00:14:26,956 Speaker 1: kicks in the most when we need it, and that 307 00:14:27,076 --> 00:14:29,556 Speaker 1: is to build these relationships and you're also finding that 308 00:14:29,676 --> 00:14:32,916 Speaker 1: this relationship between pro social spending and happiness kicks in 309 00:14:33,316 --> 00:14:35,556 Speaker 1: at work and in our paychecks. So talk to me 310 00:14:35,596 --> 00:14:39,236 Speaker 1: about some of the employee bonus studies you've been working on. Sure, So, 311 00:14:39,436 --> 00:14:41,796 Speaker 1: my colleagues and I have run a few studies trying 312 00:14:41,836 --> 00:14:44,956 Speaker 1: to examine how generosity might play out in the workplace 313 00:14:45,116 --> 00:14:48,316 Speaker 1: and whether giving in this context, which is often considered 314 00:14:48,356 --> 00:14:50,956 Speaker 1: a little bit more of a volatile, personally focused ovain, 315 00:14:51,036 --> 00:14:54,116 Speaker 1: can have similar benefits. So in some experiments we have 316 00:14:54,396 --> 00:14:57,636 Speaker 1: given on both work teams but also sports teams. We've 317 00:14:57,716 --> 00:15:02,316 Speaker 1: randomly assigned people to either spend small bonuses on themselves 318 00:15:02,396 --> 00:15:05,076 Speaker 1: or spend them on colleagues. And generally speaking, what we 319 00:15:05,156 --> 00:15:07,756 Speaker 1: find is we replicate the emotional rewards of giving. So 320 00:15:07,876 --> 00:15:10,716 Speaker 1: when people give to others, they report higher levels of 321 00:15:10,716 --> 00:15:13,196 Speaker 1: happiness than when they spend on themselves. But not only 322 00:15:13,196 --> 00:15:15,916 Speaker 1: that the recipients report higher levels of happiness, but also 323 00:15:15,996 --> 00:15:19,236 Speaker 1: their teams win or are more productive. And so I 324 00:15:19,236 --> 00:15:21,396 Speaker 1: think what this is suggesting is that this is building 325 00:15:21,436 --> 00:15:24,996 Speaker 1: relationships and building a positive atmosphere. And so we've argued 326 00:15:25,036 --> 00:15:27,316 Speaker 1: that the perhaps there might be ripple effects of generosity 327 00:15:27,356 --> 00:15:29,916 Speaker 1: that exist beyond the giver, and not just to perhaps 328 00:15:29,956 --> 00:15:32,836 Speaker 1: the obvious recipient, but just people in the vicinity who 329 00:15:32,876 --> 00:15:35,596 Speaker 1: have the opportunity to kind of bask in the glow 330 00:15:35,676 --> 00:15:37,916 Speaker 1: of the kindness that is around them. And another one 331 00:15:37,916 --> 00:15:40,636 Speaker 1: of the ripple effects you've identified is that the act 332 00:15:40,636 --> 00:15:43,876 Speaker 1: of pro social spending, once our happiness gets boosted, that 333 00:15:43,956 --> 00:15:47,356 Speaker 1: seems to affect our generosity too, right, that's right. So 334 00:15:47,396 --> 00:15:52,036 Speaker 1: there seems to be this really fascinating and heartwarming positive 335 00:15:52,036 --> 00:15:54,756 Speaker 1: feedback loop between generosity and happiness. And so what we 336 00:15:54,836 --> 00:15:57,396 Speaker 1: found in our research is that when people spend on others, 337 00:15:57,396 --> 00:15:59,676 Speaker 1: they report feeling higher levels of happiness than when they 338 00:15:59,716 --> 00:16:02,156 Speaker 1: spend on themselves. But in turn, those higher levels of 339 00:16:02,236 --> 00:16:05,636 Speaker 1: happiness encourage subsequent acts of generosity. And so while at 340 00:16:05,676 --> 00:16:08,716 Speaker 1: one time act of giving may wax and wane over time, 341 00:16:08,756 --> 00:16:12,196 Speaker 1: it does necessarily persists indefinitely, but it puts us on 342 00:16:12,236 --> 00:16:15,916 Speaker 1: a path to build better relationships and continue doing acts 343 00:16:15,916 --> 00:16:19,996 Speaker 1: of kindness. This feedback loop of generosity is great. When 344 00:16:20,036 --> 00:16:22,116 Speaker 1: you give, it feels good, and so you give again, 345 00:16:22,316 --> 00:16:24,316 Speaker 1: and then you're feeling men better and so you give again. 346 00:16:25,316 --> 00:16:28,236 Speaker 1: But Laura's research also suggests that there are some ways 347 00:16:28,236 --> 00:16:30,436 Speaker 1: of spending money on others that can lead to an 348 00:16:30,436 --> 00:16:33,876 Speaker 1: even bigger happiness boost. We'll see what those extra well 349 00:16:33,916 --> 00:16:36,876 Speaker 1: being boosting methods are when the happiness lab returns in 350 00:16:36,916 --> 00:16:47,356 Speaker 1: a moment. Giving to others we might reflexively think of 351 00:16:47,396 --> 00:16:49,436 Speaker 1: as an act that connects us with other people, but 352 00:16:49,556 --> 00:16:51,356 Speaker 1: I think if you stop and take a moment to 353 00:16:51,476 --> 00:16:54,036 Speaker 1: think a little bit more deeply, there are many opportunities 354 00:16:54,036 --> 00:16:57,476 Speaker 1: to gives that are actually quite disconnected. Social psychologists Laura 355 00:16:57,476 --> 00:17:00,676 Speaker 1: actin studies how pro social spending, that is, using our 356 00:17:00,716 --> 00:17:04,396 Speaker 1: money to benefit others can markedly improve our own happiness. 357 00:17:04,876 --> 00:17:07,596 Speaker 1: But she's also found that not all pro social spending 358 00:17:07,676 --> 00:17:10,236 Speaker 1: is equal. Some type of giving can give us a 359 00:17:10,276 --> 00:17:14,276 Speaker 1: bigger happiness bang for our buck than others. Consider, for example, 360 00:17:14,436 --> 00:17:18,036 Speaker 1: the differential mood boost we get from merely giving versus 361 00:17:18,076 --> 00:17:21,316 Speaker 1: connecting with the people we're helping. So there are oftentimes, 362 00:17:21,316 --> 00:17:23,116 Speaker 1: and I am guilty of this too, where we send 363 00:17:23,156 --> 00:17:25,636 Speaker 1: gift certificates to friends and we don't really get a 364 00:17:25,756 --> 00:17:28,316 Speaker 1: chance to enjoy it with them. We send gifts to 365 00:17:28,356 --> 00:17:31,396 Speaker 1: friends and family and other places, or we make donations 366 00:17:31,436 --> 00:17:34,596 Speaker 1: to a charity but don't even recognize it. Like I mentioned, 367 00:17:34,636 --> 00:17:37,356 Speaker 1: the payroll deductions that happen before, and while all of 368 00:17:37,396 --> 00:17:40,836 Speaker 1: those are wonderfully kind acts, they don't really emphasize and 369 00:17:40,916 --> 00:17:43,836 Speaker 1: allow us to truly enjoy the social connection that pro 370 00:17:43,916 --> 00:17:46,876 Speaker 1: social spending can be so effective in doing. And so 371 00:17:47,196 --> 00:17:49,236 Speaker 1: a lot of our work has found kind of supportive 372 00:17:49,236 --> 00:17:51,436 Speaker 1: of this general notion that would people give in ways 373 00:17:51,476 --> 00:17:54,036 Speaker 1: that allow for a greater sense of social connection, we 374 00:17:54,196 --> 00:17:57,076 Speaker 1: enjoy the act more, we experience a bigger boost of 375 00:17:57,116 --> 00:17:59,476 Speaker 1: happiness from doing so. And I think it's important to 376 00:17:59,516 --> 00:18:02,436 Speaker 1: realize that giving with a higher sense of social connection 377 00:18:02,476 --> 00:18:04,716 Speaker 1: can come in various channels. So that can come from 378 00:18:04,756 --> 00:18:07,516 Speaker 1: connecting with the recipient that you are actually helping. So, 379 00:18:07,556 --> 00:18:10,236 Speaker 1: for instance, give a check or your time donating at 380 00:18:10,236 --> 00:18:12,676 Speaker 1: a food bank, being there in person might be a 381 00:18:12,716 --> 00:18:15,276 Speaker 1: lot more rewarding than simply sending a check in the 382 00:18:15,316 --> 00:18:17,636 Speaker 1: mail where you have no face to face contact with 383 00:18:17,676 --> 00:18:20,236 Speaker 1: someone on the other side. So giving where you're able 384 00:18:20,236 --> 00:18:22,396 Speaker 1: to see the recipient, giving in ways that allow you 385 00:18:22,436 --> 00:18:24,996 Speaker 1: to connect with other donors. So there are ways in 386 00:18:24,996 --> 00:18:28,236 Speaker 1: which we can give in collaborative campaigns online, through Facebook, 387 00:18:28,236 --> 00:18:31,676 Speaker 1: through other ways, through just even my home department here 388 00:18:31,716 --> 00:18:34,436 Speaker 1: often gives in large charitable endeavors, and so knowing that 389 00:18:34,476 --> 00:18:36,756 Speaker 1: I'm giving with my colleagues and grad students is often 390 00:18:36,876 --> 00:18:40,556 Speaker 1: very rewarding, and sometimes just connecting with a cause at large. 391 00:18:40,636 --> 00:18:43,036 Speaker 1: So kind of situating ourselves in these ways that are 392 00:18:43,356 --> 00:18:46,956 Speaker 1: more connected usually lead to larger emotional rewards from giving. 393 00:18:47,036 --> 00:18:48,716 Speaker 1: And that's great that you pointed that out, because I 394 00:18:48,716 --> 00:18:51,236 Speaker 1: think one could hear this work and think like, oh, well, 395 00:18:51,276 --> 00:18:52,996 Speaker 1: the best way to give is to someone who's like 396 00:18:53,116 --> 00:18:55,276 Speaker 1: my best friend or I'm really close to, But we 397 00:18:55,276 --> 00:18:58,356 Speaker 1: can actually connect with recipients who we might not know 398 00:18:58,476 --> 00:19:00,596 Speaker 1: as long as we're connecting with the cause itself. It 399 00:19:00,636 --> 00:19:03,516 Speaker 1: sounds like that's right. In fact, in one early study 400 00:19:03,676 --> 00:19:06,636 Speaker 1: on this, my colleagues and I ran a study where 401 00:19:06,676 --> 00:19:09,836 Speaker 1: we endowed students with a ten dollar payment for participating 402 00:19:09,876 --> 00:19:11,796 Speaker 1: in a study asked them if they'd like to donate 403 00:19:11,836 --> 00:19:16,516 Speaker 1: to a subsidiary of UNISEF, and in one condition, participants 404 00:19:16,516 --> 00:19:20,116 Speaker 1: were told that which was true the research assistant disclosed 405 00:19:20,156 --> 00:19:22,836 Speaker 1: that they were personally interested and really connected with this charity, 406 00:19:22,916 --> 00:19:26,596 Speaker 1: and in the other condition, this personal connection just remained silent. 407 00:19:26,716 --> 00:19:29,236 Speaker 1: And what we found was that in general, people gave 408 00:19:29,276 --> 00:19:31,676 Speaker 1: equal amounts of money across the two conditions. But in 409 00:19:31,716 --> 00:19:33,956 Speaker 1: the condition where people were giving to someone who was 410 00:19:34,036 --> 00:19:36,876 Speaker 1: personally affiliated with the cause, the more they gave, the 411 00:19:36,916 --> 00:19:40,196 Speaker 1: happier they reported feeling. Meanwhile, the emotional rewards of giving 412 00:19:40,196 --> 00:19:42,836 Speaker 1: were almost flatline in the other condition. And so sometimes 413 00:19:42,836 --> 00:19:45,516 Speaker 1: when we're giving in disconnected ways, we might really rob 414 00:19:45,556 --> 00:19:48,436 Speaker 1: ourselves of these emotional rewards. Another thing you found that 415 00:19:48,516 --> 00:19:51,516 Speaker 1: super important for the kind of happiness benefit that comes 416 00:19:51,516 --> 00:19:54,156 Speaker 1: from pro social giving comes from our autonomy and giving. 417 00:19:54,356 --> 00:19:57,516 Speaker 1: What do you mean by autonomy here? Yes, So usually 418 00:19:57,516 --> 00:20:00,516 Speaker 1: autonomy is referred to whether people themselves have had the 419 00:20:00,516 --> 00:20:02,876 Speaker 1: opportunity to make the decision that they want to give, 420 00:20:02,916 --> 00:20:05,676 Speaker 1: that they are experiencing a sense of volition and personal choice, 421 00:20:06,076 --> 00:20:10,396 Speaker 1: that they have pursued this opportunity in a meaningful way themselves. 422 00:20:10,436 --> 00:20:12,476 Speaker 1: And so I think about this often when it comes 423 00:20:12,476 --> 00:20:14,756 Speaker 1: to parenting. I try not to force my kids to 424 00:20:14,876 --> 00:20:18,356 Speaker 1: give too much. I try to scaffold these opportunities for 425 00:20:18,396 --> 00:20:20,836 Speaker 1: them to realize that it's important to give. My colleagues 426 00:20:20,836 --> 00:20:22,876 Speaker 1: and I have done some work in this domain, but 427 00:20:22,916 --> 00:20:26,076 Speaker 1: I think probably the most highly referenced study in areas 428 00:20:26,116 --> 00:20:29,076 Speaker 1: by Weinstein and Ryan that has nicely controlled this where 429 00:20:29,236 --> 00:20:32,396 Speaker 1: people were given the opportunity to make donations. In one condition, 430 00:20:32,436 --> 00:20:34,396 Speaker 1: people chose how much. In the other condition, they were 431 00:20:34,476 --> 00:20:36,916 Speaker 1: kind of just yoked to give the identical amount. And 432 00:20:36,996 --> 00:20:39,076 Speaker 1: when people had freedom to choose, the more they gave, 433 00:20:39,116 --> 00:20:41,276 Speaker 1: the happier they were. But in the other condition, they 434 00:20:41,276 --> 00:20:44,836 Speaker 1: gave identical amounts and felt no such enjoyment. So it 435 00:20:44,836 --> 00:20:47,156 Speaker 1: really seems like we need to be choosing, like when 436 00:20:47,196 --> 00:20:49,556 Speaker 1: we give, who we give, how much we give. I 437 00:20:49,596 --> 00:20:52,156 Speaker 1: think that's super important because I sometimes get questions from 438 00:20:52,156 --> 00:20:54,836 Speaker 1: folks about these benefits, not just a pro social spending, 439 00:20:54,836 --> 00:20:57,756 Speaker 1: but also just pro social actions. And people sometimes feel 440 00:20:57,796 --> 00:20:59,876 Speaker 1: like if they're forced to help, right, if they have 441 00:20:59,916 --> 00:21:02,836 Speaker 1: no choice other than to help, that it doesn't feel good. 442 00:21:02,876 --> 00:21:05,276 Speaker 1: It can feel most onerous. I'm thinking of people who 443 00:21:05,276 --> 00:21:07,876 Speaker 1: are stuck doing certain kinds of childcare elder care, and 444 00:21:07,996 --> 00:21:10,196 Speaker 1: obviously they love the people that they're working for, but 445 00:21:10,236 --> 00:21:12,356 Speaker 1: it doesn't seem like they're getting the same happiness boost 446 00:21:12,356 --> 00:21:14,596 Speaker 1: that they might if they kind of chose to volunteer 447 00:21:14,636 --> 00:21:16,836 Speaker 1: at a food bank or something like that. That's right. 448 00:21:16,916 --> 00:21:18,636 Speaker 1: I think that's an important distinction. I think there are 449 00:21:18,716 --> 00:21:21,876 Speaker 1: many times we engage in generous acts, but sometimes through 450 00:21:21,876 --> 00:21:23,956 Speaker 1: a sense of obligation. There is a bit of work 451 00:21:23,996 --> 00:21:27,196 Speaker 1: suggesting that sometimes just even scaffolding what feels like a 452 00:21:27,236 --> 00:21:30,076 Speaker 1: sense of choice can be productive in this domain. So 453 00:21:30,316 --> 00:21:31,796 Speaker 1: you can say you don't need to do this, but 454 00:21:31,956 --> 00:21:34,036 Speaker 1: you know it's your choice to decide if and how 455 00:21:34,076 --> 00:21:36,076 Speaker 1: and when you'd like to give. Kind of offering a 456 00:21:36,156 --> 00:21:39,036 Speaker 1: little bit of flexibility and how or when or why 457 00:21:39,476 --> 00:21:42,276 Speaker 1: can free people up to regain some of this personal 458 00:21:42,316 --> 00:21:44,756 Speaker 1: control That can make giving a lot more rewarding, less 459 00:21:44,796 --> 00:21:47,596 Speaker 1: of a tedious task and more like something that they 460 00:21:47,596 --> 00:21:50,196 Speaker 1: will enjoy. And remember, I think that's really key, because 461 00:21:50,236 --> 00:21:52,476 Speaker 1: we forget that the way we frame things can be 462 00:21:52,756 --> 00:21:55,396 Speaker 1: really powerful for how we think things are working. You know, 463 00:21:55,436 --> 00:21:57,636 Speaker 1: even just reminding yourself you know it's a choice that 464 00:21:57,676 --> 00:21:59,956 Speaker 1: I'm spending my time doing this, or I know I've 465 00:22:00,036 --> 00:22:02,196 Speaker 1: chosen to do this like that can have a powerful 466 00:22:02,236 --> 00:22:04,676 Speaker 1: effect on just the sense of autonomy we feel and 467 00:22:04,716 --> 00:22:06,796 Speaker 1: therefore maybe the well being boost that we get from 468 00:22:06,796 --> 00:22:09,556 Speaker 1: engaging in those actions. A third sweet spot found in 469 00:22:09,556 --> 00:22:12,276 Speaker 1: this domain of pro social spending boosting our happiness comes 470 00:22:12,316 --> 00:22:14,676 Speaker 1: when we see that what we've done has a real impact. 471 00:22:14,996 --> 00:22:17,716 Speaker 1: Why has impact so important to our psychology and to 472 00:22:17,756 --> 00:22:21,556 Speaker 1: our enjoyment. That's a great question. I think people enjoy 473 00:22:21,596 --> 00:22:24,476 Speaker 1: giving when it is more impactful because it helps them 474 00:22:24,516 --> 00:22:27,716 Speaker 1: realize that they haven't just chosen to let go of 475 00:22:27,756 --> 00:22:30,036 Speaker 1: a resource that is valuable to them, but that is 476 00:22:30,076 --> 00:22:33,276 Speaker 1: having a clear and positive improving someone else's life. And 477 00:22:33,316 --> 00:22:35,516 Speaker 1: so there are opportunities where I think we want to 478 00:22:35,516 --> 00:22:38,636 Speaker 1: see that we're effective in pursuing our goals, but even 479 00:22:38,676 --> 00:22:40,156 Speaker 1: beyond that, I think we want to see that we 480 00:22:40,236 --> 00:22:43,676 Speaker 1: have measurably improved the lives of others. And when we 481 00:22:43,956 --> 00:22:46,356 Speaker 1: are given clear evidence of that, we usually feel much 482 00:22:46,396 --> 00:22:48,436 Speaker 1: better for it. So I think there are some charities 483 00:22:48,436 --> 00:22:50,876 Speaker 1: that do a fantastic job of this. I remember at 484 00:22:50,876 --> 00:22:52,236 Speaker 1: one point in my life I was living in New 485 00:22:52,316 --> 00:22:54,716 Speaker 1: York and there was a local organization that would collect 486 00:22:54,756 --> 00:22:57,276 Speaker 1: clothing for women who were returning to the workplace, and 487 00:22:57,316 --> 00:23:01,076 Speaker 1: you could see with every outfit you donated how many 488 00:23:01,116 --> 00:23:03,836 Speaker 1: women it would help, and how they would rearrange the 489 00:23:03,836 --> 00:23:06,156 Speaker 1: outfits to return as many women as they could to 490 00:23:06,196 --> 00:23:09,636 Speaker 1: the workforce. And essentially there was an online pro social calculator. 491 00:23:09,636 --> 00:23:11,996 Speaker 1: And I thought that was a brilliant idea and so 492 00:23:12,116 --> 00:23:14,676 Speaker 1: kind of offering that is an incentive or kind of 493 00:23:14,836 --> 00:23:17,476 Speaker 1: an opportunity for potential donors to see what they can do. 494 00:23:17,596 --> 00:23:19,836 Speaker 1: Is a really an effective tool. There are also some 495 00:23:19,916 --> 00:23:23,076 Speaker 1: charities that do this brilliantly after the fact. One of 496 00:23:23,116 --> 00:23:25,876 Speaker 1: my favorite examples as donors Choose, which is a website 497 00:23:25,916 --> 00:23:29,116 Speaker 1: that allows people to give and support teachers all across 498 00:23:29,156 --> 00:23:32,316 Speaker 1: the United States and perhaps even more broadly with specific 499 00:23:32,436 --> 00:23:35,076 Speaker 1: needs that they require for their classrooms. So if a 500 00:23:35,156 --> 00:23:37,636 Speaker 1: teacher is in need of new software to teach programming 501 00:23:37,636 --> 00:23:40,516 Speaker 1: to sixth graders, here's what they need. And they're often 502 00:23:40,676 --> 00:23:43,996 Speaker 1: from lower income parts of the country where the school 503 00:23:44,036 --> 00:23:46,396 Speaker 1: district is unable to do so. But also what happens 504 00:23:46,396 --> 00:23:48,756 Speaker 1: afterward is usually the students and the teachers right hand 505 00:23:48,996 --> 00:23:51,236 Speaker 1: written notes to the donor. We have used this in 506 00:23:51,276 --> 00:23:52,716 Speaker 1: many of our studies and it is one of the 507 00:23:52,716 --> 00:23:55,436 Speaker 1: most touching things to see. I realize that some charities 508 00:23:55,476 --> 00:23:57,716 Speaker 1: don't have an easy cell in this regard. I mean 509 00:23:57,956 --> 00:24:00,756 Speaker 1: is sometimes you're buying or protecting an acreage of land, 510 00:24:00,796 --> 00:24:02,596 Speaker 1: and that isn't it is an easy of a cell 511 00:24:02,676 --> 00:24:05,036 Speaker 1: to show how your actions have made a difference. But 512 00:24:05,116 --> 00:24:07,316 Speaker 1: I think there are many times in which we can 513 00:24:07,356 --> 00:24:10,356 Speaker 1: find this for ourselves by sometimes giving in person or 514 00:24:10,396 --> 00:24:12,956 Speaker 1: sometimes even just like we said before, kind of circling 515 00:24:12,956 --> 00:24:15,236 Speaker 1: back to the people who have dedicated their lives and 516 00:24:15,276 --> 00:24:17,516 Speaker 1: their energy to this pursuit in that too can be 517 00:24:17,556 --> 00:24:19,876 Speaker 1: a huge booster. So I love donors to choose, But 518 00:24:20,156 --> 00:24:22,276 Speaker 1: I think one of the things that we've realized in 519 00:24:22,356 --> 00:24:25,316 Speaker 1: past episodes is that the kind of way we donate 520 00:24:25,396 --> 00:24:27,516 Speaker 1: kind of matters too in terms of its impact. There 521 00:24:27,596 --> 00:24:30,796 Speaker 1: might be things that don't feel really impactful in the moment, 522 00:24:30,836 --> 00:24:32,716 Speaker 1: like we might not meet the recipients, but they might 523 00:24:32,716 --> 00:24:34,996 Speaker 1: be doing a tremendous amount of good And so do 524 00:24:34,996 --> 00:24:37,676 Speaker 1: you think reflecting on that form of impact might also 525 00:24:37,756 --> 00:24:40,996 Speaker 1: help us get more of a happiness benefit too. Yeah. So, 526 00:24:41,036 --> 00:24:43,156 Speaker 1: sometimes we might not have the physical proof in front 527 00:24:43,196 --> 00:24:45,276 Speaker 1: of us. Sometimes we may not be able to connect 528 00:24:45,676 --> 00:24:49,596 Speaker 1: specifically with the recipient or proxy thereof. Sometimes we have 529 00:24:49,676 --> 00:24:52,716 Speaker 1: to rely on some mental calculations to try to imagine 530 00:24:52,716 --> 00:24:54,676 Speaker 1: and take us one step further. I think there might 531 00:24:54,716 --> 00:24:57,116 Speaker 1: be individual differences and to what extent people are able 532 00:24:57,156 --> 00:24:59,156 Speaker 1: to do that, But I think we might be able 533 00:24:59,196 --> 00:25:02,036 Speaker 1: to kind of mentally time travel, if you will, or 534 00:25:02,076 --> 00:25:05,436 Speaker 1: at least mentally transport ourselves to imagine how these gifts 535 00:25:05,476 --> 00:25:07,356 Speaker 1: might be helping other people, and I think the extent 536 00:25:07,396 --> 00:25:09,636 Speaker 1: to which we're doing that would probably unlock a lot 537 00:25:09,636 --> 00:25:12,196 Speaker 1: of emotional rewards. You know, what's so amazing about your 538 00:25:12,196 --> 00:25:14,716 Speaker 1: resource law is that you're constantly doing work showing that 539 00:25:15,036 --> 00:25:18,196 Speaker 1: giving money away, not spending money on yourself, is a 540 00:25:18,236 --> 00:25:20,556 Speaker 1: better more happiness and do saying way to spend money? 541 00:25:20,676 --> 00:25:23,556 Speaker 1: I mean, do you get pushback on that sometimes? Although 542 00:25:23,836 --> 00:25:27,036 Speaker 1: it's interesting because I seem to receive pushback from both ends. 543 00:25:27,476 --> 00:25:30,276 Speaker 1: On the one side, there are folks, sometimes economists and 544 00:25:30,316 --> 00:25:33,676 Speaker 1: business folks or business students who say, like, this seems crazy. 545 00:25:33,716 --> 00:25:36,636 Speaker 1: I'm not sure why anybody would find enjoyment in spending 546 00:25:36,676 --> 00:25:39,516 Speaker 1: some of their limited financial resources on other people. Limited 547 00:25:39,596 --> 00:25:41,516 Speaker 1: or otherwise, I should say, And I try to show 548 00:25:41,556 --> 00:25:44,196 Speaker 1: them the data and argue, as we've talked about here, 549 00:25:44,236 --> 00:25:46,956 Speaker 1: that humans are social creatures and this provides a meaningful 550 00:25:47,036 --> 00:25:49,716 Speaker 1: route to connect with other people. However, I also received 551 00:25:49,756 --> 00:25:52,956 Speaker 1: pushback from the other side, where people email and call 552 00:25:53,076 --> 00:25:55,356 Speaker 1: and say, well, this is obvious, we didn't need your 553 00:25:55,396 --> 00:25:58,036 Speaker 1: work to make the point, Thank you very much. My 554 00:25:58,116 --> 00:26:00,156 Speaker 1: grandmother told me this when I was four, and she 555 00:26:00,316 --> 00:26:03,036 Speaker 1: was right. And to that I say, I'm glad. I'm glad. 556 00:26:03,076 --> 00:26:06,116 Speaker 1: This seems like an intuitive reaction to many people. I think, 557 00:26:06,156 --> 00:26:07,916 Speaker 1: to a certain extent, to do is. I think at 558 00:26:07,956 --> 00:26:11,156 Speaker 1: a high level, we appreciate and gather that doing nice 559 00:26:11,196 --> 00:26:13,716 Speaker 1: things for others gives us this form glow, and it's 560 00:26:13,716 --> 00:26:15,836 Speaker 1: a nice thing to do. But I think when push 561 00:26:15,836 --> 00:26:17,836 Speaker 1: comes to shoven, we see it in the data when 562 00:26:17,836 --> 00:26:19,876 Speaker 1: we ask people what do you think will make you happier? 563 00:26:19,916 --> 00:26:22,476 Speaker 1: And specifically when it comes to money. I think money 564 00:26:22,556 --> 00:26:26,636 Speaker 1: is kind of a complicated psychological phenomenon where people seem 565 00:26:26,676 --> 00:26:29,116 Speaker 1: to focus more inward than outward. But when we ask people, 566 00:26:29,156 --> 00:26:31,596 Speaker 1: you know, given five or twenty dollars and the choice 567 00:26:31,636 --> 00:26:33,516 Speaker 1: to spend on yourself or others, what do you think 568 00:26:33,516 --> 00:26:36,996 Speaker 1: will make you happier? The overwhelming majority of people think 569 00:26:37,036 --> 00:26:39,516 Speaker 1: that they would be happier spending on themselves. And so 570 00:26:39,636 --> 00:26:42,116 Speaker 1: in some ways this is counterintuitive and in some ways 571 00:26:42,116 --> 00:26:44,036 Speaker 1: it isn't. And my goal with a lot of this 572 00:26:44,116 --> 00:26:47,276 Speaker 1: research is to try to understand how robust this relationship is, 573 00:26:47,276 --> 00:26:49,676 Speaker 1: and it seems to be quite robust, but also to 574 00:26:49,756 --> 00:26:52,796 Speaker 1: make giving as rewarding as possible so that we kind 575 00:26:52,796 --> 00:26:55,516 Speaker 1: of kick most people onto these positive feedback loops where 576 00:26:55,516 --> 00:26:57,756 Speaker 1: they're feeling good about doing it and more likely to 577 00:26:57,796 --> 00:27:01,276 Speaker 1: do it in the future. Laura's work really got me thinking. 578 00:27:01,956 --> 00:27:04,276 Speaker 1: When we pointed all of you towards Josh Green's Giving 579 00:27:04,356 --> 00:27:07,196 Speaker 1: Multiplier website last year so that you could donate to 580 00:27:07,236 --> 00:27:10,996 Speaker 1: the most effective charities around we never really updated you 581 00:27:11,156 --> 00:27:13,476 Speaker 1: on just how much money we raised together as a 582 00:27:13,516 --> 00:27:16,636 Speaker 1: community and what good that money did around the world. 583 00:27:17,316 --> 00:27:19,756 Speaker 1: So I decided to invite Josh back so he could 584 00:27:19,756 --> 00:27:24,356 Speaker 1: share the good news himself. The response from this audience 585 00:27:24,516 --> 00:27:27,956 Speaker 1: was just unbelievable. So I can just yeah, because you 586 00:27:27,996 --> 00:27:29,636 Speaker 1: brought you actually nerded it and brought the numbers. I 587 00:27:29,676 --> 00:27:31,116 Speaker 1: haven't seen them yet. You're going to tell me these 588 00:27:31,156 --> 00:27:32,716 Speaker 1: for the first time. Yeah, all right. So I mean 589 00:27:32,716 --> 00:27:34,556 Speaker 1: we'll just get to the to the headline number. So 590 00:27:34,756 --> 00:27:36,956 Speaker 1: the total raised, the people who use the code, and 591 00:27:36,956 --> 00:27:39,516 Speaker 1: the people who I could identify by their their comments. 592 00:27:39,556 --> 00:27:41,956 Speaker 1: I'm sure I didn't catch every last person. With the 593 00:27:42,036 --> 00:27:45,076 Speaker 1: matching funds added on top, raised four hundred and seventy 594 00:27:45,196 --> 00:27:47,956 Speaker 1: thousand dollars. Oh my god, close to half a million 595 00:27:47,996 --> 00:27:50,756 Speaker 1: dollars just from your listeners over less than less than 596 00:27:50,756 --> 00:27:54,596 Speaker 1: the last year. So I was just floored, I mean, unbelievable. 597 00:27:54,716 --> 00:27:57,076 Speaker 1: That's amazing. That makes you want to cry. Listeners, y'all 598 00:27:57,116 --> 00:28:00,436 Speaker 1: are amazing. True. Yeah. But one of the great things 599 00:28:00,476 --> 00:28:03,516 Speaker 1: about giving multipliers that we can not just say, oh, 600 00:28:03,596 --> 00:28:05,716 Speaker 1: that's almost half a million dollars. You can actually put 601 00:28:05,756 --> 00:28:08,636 Speaker 1: it in terms of the effectiveness the impact that these 602 00:28:08,676 --> 00:28:11,116 Speaker 1: this money having, right yeah, So I mean over a 603 00:28:11,196 --> 00:28:14,676 Speaker 1: quarter a million dollars is going to the super effective 604 00:28:14,716 --> 00:28:17,036 Speaker 1: charities on our list, and I can just you know, 605 00:28:17,076 --> 00:28:20,676 Speaker 1: give some some examples of that. So the Against Malaria Foundation, 606 00:28:20,956 --> 00:28:23,276 Speaker 1: one of the most tried and true methods for just 607 00:28:23,356 --> 00:28:26,156 Speaker 1: doing huge amount of impact with with your dollars is 608 00:28:26,276 --> 00:28:30,676 Speaker 1: distributing anti malarial bednets. This is a huge cause of death, 609 00:28:30,796 --> 00:28:34,436 Speaker 1: mostly in Sub Saharan Africa, and Happiness Labors with the 610 00:28:34,476 --> 00:28:38,356 Speaker 1: Matches gave thirty eight thousand dollars to the Against Malaria Foundation, 611 00:28:38,476 --> 00:28:40,796 Speaker 1: which you know, in the world of philanthropy, that might 612 00:28:40,796 --> 00:28:42,276 Speaker 1: not seem like a huge amount, but first of all, 613 00:28:42,276 --> 00:28:44,116 Speaker 1: that's just a small amount of what you folks did overall. 614 00:28:44,116 --> 00:28:46,236 Speaker 1: That's just one out of these nine charities. But you know, 615 00:28:46,276 --> 00:28:49,156 Speaker 1: each malaria net costs about five dollars all in to 616 00:28:49,236 --> 00:28:52,356 Speaker 1: sort of buy and distribute. So we're we're talking about, 617 00:28:52,356 --> 00:28:55,756 Speaker 1: you know, something like seven thousand, six hundred nets or 618 00:28:55,916 --> 00:28:57,676 Speaker 1: or something like that. And when you look at that number, 619 00:28:57,716 --> 00:28:59,436 Speaker 1: you can imagine that that can do a lot of good. 620 00:28:59,636 --> 00:29:01,476 Speaker 1: I will preface what I'm about to say was saying 621 00:29:01,516 --> 00:29:04,876 Speaker 1: that a lot of people mistakenly think that it's really, really, 622 00:29:04,876 --> 00:29:08,076 Speaker 1: really cheap to save somebody's life. So Lucious Caveola, my 623 00:29:08,116 --> 00:29:09,876 Speaker 1: collaborator on this, is on research showing that a lot 624 00:29:09,876 --> 00:29:11,316 Speaker 1: of people think it's like one hundred dollars or one 625 00:29:11,356 --> 00:29:14,076 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty dollars because you have seen ads, you know, 626 00:29:14,116 --> 00:29:15,636 Speaker 1: over the years, you know, oh, you could save someone's 627 00:29:15,676 --> 00:29:18,796 Speaker 1: life one hundred dollars. It's not quite that easy, right, 628 00:29:19,036 --> 00:29:23,076 Speaker 1: but it's not anywhere close to impossible either. So my 629 00:29:23,356 --> 00:29:26,476 Speaker 1: best guest estimate, and this is a very rough estimate, 630 00:29:26,516 --> 00:29:28,676 Speaker 1: and give Well is very clear that these are rough 631 00:29:28,836 --> 00:29:32,716 Speaker 1: estimates distributing seventy six hundred malaria and that's which is 632 00:29:32,716 --> 00:29:35,196 Speaker 1: what this amount should buy. You would expect that to 633 00:29:35,236 --> 00:29:38,836 Speaker 1: save something like seven people's lives, mostly children, and the 634 00:29:38,876 --> 00:29:40,876 Speaker 1: effectiveness there is going to vary by region, which is 635 00:29:40,876 --> 00:29:42,236 Speaker 1: going to vary by season, so you know, there are 636 00:29:42,276 --> 00:29:44,756 Speaker 1: a lot of nerdy caveats with this, but we're really 637 00:29:44,756 --> 00:29:48,396 Speaker 1: talking about is just the part of the donations that 638 00:29:48,436 --> 00:29:51,156 Speaker 1: went to Against Malaria Foundation, which is just you know 639 00:29:51,236 --> 00:29:53,836 Speaker 1: a small part of what your this audience has done 640 00:29:54,116 --> 00:29:57,956 Speaker 1: clearly saving life, whether it's two or seven or ten 641 00:29:58,116 --> 00:30:00,836 Speaker 1: or twenty. And that's that's for real. I mean, that's 642 00:30:00,916 --> 00:30:04,596 Speaker 1: really based on rigorous research going back meant many years, 643 00:30:04,596 --> 00:30:07,636 Speaker 1: so that to me, that's just unbelievable. And that's just 644 00:30:07,676 --> 00:30:11,196 Speaker 1: one part of you know, what you've The science suggests 645 00:30:11,196 --> 00:30:13,356 Speaker 1: that every one of you who went to giving Multiplier 646 00:30:13,436 --> 00:30:17,276 Speaker 1: dot org slash Happiness Lab and donated probably bought yourself 647 00:30:17,316 --> 00:30:20,076 Speaker 1: a little happiness boost. But the fact that we all 648 00:30:20,116 --> 00:30:23,356 Speaker 1: together raised nearly half a million dollars has made me 649 00:30:23,676 --> 00:30:26,836 Speaker 1: really really happy. I cannot stop thinking of all the 650 00:30:26,916 --> 00:30:31,236 Speaker 1: lives we've improved and maybe even saved Happiness Lab listeners. 651 00:30:31,436 --> 00:30:35,236 Speaker 1: I'm so proud of us. So let's do it again. 652 00:30:35,756 --> 00:30:38,196 Speaker 1: If you gave last time and felt a happiness bump, 653 00:30:38,436 --> 00:30:40,956 Speaker 1: why not get into that positive feedback loop. Lara was 654 00:30:40,996 --> 00:30:44,316 Speaker 1: talking about head back to giving Multiplier dot org slash 655 00:30:44,316 --> 00:30:48,716 Speaker 1: Happiness Lab and give whatever you can again, and if 656 00:30:48,716 --> 00:30:51,116 Speaker 1: you're still not convinced of the personal benefits of pro 657 00:30:51,236 --> 00:30:54,196 Speaker 1: social spending, you can head to giving multiplier dot org 658 00:30:54,236 --> 00:30:59,676 Speaker 1: slash Happiness Lab and run the experiment for yourself. The 659 00:30:59,756 --> 00:31:02,236 Speaker 1: Happiness Lab has big plans for twenty twenty three, and 660 00:31:02,276 --> 00:31:05,196 Speaker 1: we're working on some show ideas that I'm really excited about. 661 00:31:05,796 --> 00:31:07,436 Speaker 1: What I can tell you now is that we'll be 662 00:31:07,476 --> 00:31:09,796 Speaker 1: back at the start of January with a series that 663 00:31:09,836 --> 00:31:12,156 Speaker 1: will help you rise to the challenge of the new year. 664 00:31:12,836 --> 00:31:16,596 Speaker 1: Until then, stay safe, stay happy, and thanks for giving. 665 00:31:21,316 --> 00:31:24,236 Speaker 1: The Happiness Lab is co written and produced by Ryan Dilley, 666 00:31:24,396 --> 00:31:28,716 Speaker 1: Emily Anne Vaughan and Courtney Guerino. Joseph Fridman checked our facts. 667 00:31:29,196 --> 00:31:33,116 Speaker 1: Our original music was composed by Zachary Silver, with additional scoring, 668 00:31:33,196 --> 00:31:37,516 Speaker 1: mixing and mastering by Evan Viola. Special thanks to Miilabelle, 669 00:31:37,676 --> 00:31:42,436 Speaker 1: Heather Fame, John Schnars, Carlie Migliori, Christina Sullivan, Maggie Taylor, 670 00:31:42,556 --> 00:31:47,476 Speaker 1: Eric Sangler, Nicole Morano, Royston Preserved, Jacob Weisberg, and my agent, 671 00:31:47,636 --> 00:31:50,476 Speaker 1: Ben Davis. The Happiness Lab is brought to you by 672 00:31:50,516 --> 00:31:54,436 Speaker 1: Pushkin Industries and Nate Doctor. Laurie Santos. To find more 673 00:31:54,476 --> 00:31:58,596 Speaker 1: Pushkin podcasts, listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or 674 00:31:58,596 --> 00:32:00,036 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your podcast