WEBVTT - Strawberries

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production

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<v Speaker 1>of iHeartRadio. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Holly Frye.

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<v Speaker 2>And I'm Tracy V. Wilson.

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<v Speaker 1>Tracy, have you noticed that strawberries are kind of having

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<v Speaker 1>a moment.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna be honest, I haven't, just because I'm not

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<v Speaker 2>aware of anything happening fashionably.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you know what it is? It's also just that

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<v Speaker 1>you're not a rabid consumer the way I am. Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>Holly buys a lot of things she doesn't mean, but

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<v Speaker 1>strawberries are. They're having a moment. If you look at

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<v Speaker 1>clothing or home design goods that are out this year,

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<v Speaker 1>strawberries are everywhere. I literally got an email promotion for

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<v Speaker 1>like plush strawberry pillows. Oh my goodness. It's like, all right,

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<v Speaker 1>humans have been enjoying strawberries around the world for thousands

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<v Speaker 1>of years, but as a cultivated plant, they're actually pretty new.

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<v Speaker 1>The story of how they went from a small forage

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<v Speaker 1>item to one of the world's most popular fruits. There

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<v Speaker 1>is a technicality in there regarding that designation that we're

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<v Speaker 1>going to talk about in just a moment, but that

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<v Speaker 1>story involves a lot of crossbreeding experimentation as you would expect,

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<v Speaker 1>but what I love about it is there's also a

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<v Speaker 1>bit of spycraft. I didn't mean to pick another French thing.

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<v Speaker 1>I really just wanted to learn more about strawberries because

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<v Speaker 1>they were in my face everywhere. But that's what we're

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<v Speaker 1>talking about today.

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<v Speaker 2>Strawberries are actually part of the rose family, from the

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<v Speaker 2>family rose a cia. If that seems surprising, the rose

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<v Speaker 2>family is really quite massive. It contains four subfamilies, more

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<v Speaker 2>than ninety genus categories, and roughly twenty five hundred species.

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<v Speaker 1>A rose is.

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<v Speaker 2>In the genus Rosa. We think of it as a flower,

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<v Speaker 2>but rose are also a fruit. The Roseesia family also

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<v Speaker 2>contains almonds, pears, and apples, lots of other fruits as well. Strawberries,

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<v Speaker 2>which are rich and vitamin see, are in the genus Frigaria.

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<v Speaker 2>So the seeds of the strawberry, if you've ever seen one,

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<v Speaker 2>are of course on the outside, and that makes it

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<v Speaker 2>unique in the fruit world. But it's actually not really

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<v Speaker 2>a fruit or a berry at all. A strawberry, the

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<v Speaker 2>thing we eat and what we think of as the strawberry,

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<v Speaker 2>is actually the end of the plant's stamen, right it's

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<v Speaker 2>the receptacle that receives pollen. So if you look at

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<v Speaker 2>a strawberry flour, there's a nodule at the center, and

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<v Speaker 2>that is the receptacle, and it's that nodule that eventually

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<v Speaker 2>grows into the fleshy thing we eat, provided it's been pollinated.

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<v Speaker 2>And the strawberry is sometimes called an accessory fruit because

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<v Speaker 2>of this, and each of those seeds on the outside

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<v Speaker 2>is the actual fruit, known as a chienes, although we

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<v Speaker 2>wouldn't think of them fruit because they're not delicious. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>there might be someone that thinks strawberry seeds are delicious,

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<v Speaker 2>but I've never met one. And an average strawberry has

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<v Speaker 2>as many as two hundred of these not really seeds

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<v Speaker 2>on its skin, and those can be used to grow

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<v Speaker 2>new plants, but the more common way for new plants

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<v Speaker 2>to form is actually through runners. So a healthy plant

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<v Speaker 2>will send out shoots called stolens, and those who will

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<v Speaker 2>root when they touch the ground, and then a new

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<v Speaker 2>plant will grow there. Strawberries have not been cultivated in

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<v Speaker 2>the sense that we know them now for really all

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<v Speaker 2>that long, only about two hundred and fifty years, but

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<v Speaker 2>of course they've been around for a lot longer than that.

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<v Speaker 2>If you've ever seen strawberries growing in the wild, or

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<v Speaker 2>even if you've grown some from seed, those were probably

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<v Speaker 2>a lot smaller than the ones you might buy at

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<v Speaker 2>a grocery store. And that's what strawberries are like without

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<v Speaker 2>human intervention in breeding and cultivation. But even before humans

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<v Speaker 2>knew how to grow big, juicy strawberries, they really loved them.

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<v Speaker 2>Horticultural biologist James F. Hancock notes in his book on Strawberries, quote,

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<v Speaker 2>the ease with which strawberries can be collected from the

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<v Speaker 2>wild may actually have delayed their cultivation until almost modern times.

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<v Speaker 2>Naturally occurring strawberries have been enjoyed in recorded history since

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<v Speaker 2>at least ancient Rome, and probably longer, but that's the

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<v Speaker 2>first time we have a record of them. It's estimated

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<v Speaker 2>that people started domesticating strawberries, growing them on purpose but

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<v Speaker 2>not messing with their genetics, about two thousand years ago,

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<v Speaker 2>and that seems like a long time, but if you

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<v Speaker 2>compare that to the domestication of grain, which started roughly

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<v Speaker 2>ten thousand years ago, it's obviously not that long. And

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<v Speaker 2>even so, these were in all likelihoods just clippings or

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<v Speaker 2>transplants of the small, previously forged strawberries that we mentioned

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<v Speaker 2>a moment ago, and again not the fat, juicy ones.

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<v Speaker 2>Larger versions seen in markets today are the ones that

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<v Speaker 2>we mentioned as being cultivated in the last two hundred

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<v Speaker 2>and fifty years, and we'll get to how those came

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<v Speaker 2>about in just a bit. Avid mentioned strawberries in his writings,

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<v Speaker 2>and so did Virgil, but these mentions were not about

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<v Speaker 2>them as food, more about them as ornamentals and identifiers.

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<v Speaker 2>For example, in Avid's Metamorphoses, strawberries come up twice, once

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<v Speaker 2>in a line where he just mentions the gathering of

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<v Speaker 2>mountain strawberries, and another where character of Polypemus says to

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<v Speaker 2>his estranged lover quote, with thine own hands, thou shalt

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<v Speaker 2>thyself gather the soft strawberries growing beneath the woodland shade.

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<v Speaker 2>Pliny the Elder mentions the strawberry in Natural History as

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<v Speaker 2>a plant native to Italy, but he also seems to

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<v Speaker 2>confuse it with another plant with a similar name. In

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<v Speaker 2>the same book, and in Virgil's work Eclogues, written in

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<v Speaker 2>the first cent BCE, he notes the boys that gather

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<v Speaker 2>flowers and strawberries low hid within the grass a serpent lies.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a warning about snakes more than it's about the strawberry.

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<v Speaker 2>The scant other mentions of strawberries and writing before the

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<v Speaker 2>fourteenth century tended to be about the appearance of the

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<v Speaker 2>berries or the flowers rather than their edible potential.

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<v Speaker 1>And even once people did start eating them or consuming

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<v Speaker 1>them in other ways, strawberries were just as likely to

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<v Speaker 1>be consumed for health reasons as for having any kind

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<v Speaker 1>of sweet fruit, and all parts of the plant have

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<v Speaker 1>been used in various treatments. So there are mentions of

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<v Speaker 1>strawberries being used to treat diarrhea, gout, indigestion, skin irritations, sunburn, pimples,

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<v Speaker 1>and yellow teeth in various medical texts throughout history, and

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<v Speaker 1>these uses have some solid scientific basis, although those early

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<v Speaker 1>users of strawberries as medicine wouldn't have had the data

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<v Speaker 1>we have today. To Turk heard to you right now,

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<v Speaker 1>we know that strawberries are, as we mentioned earlier, loaded

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<v Speaker 1>with vitamin C and also full like acid, antioxidants and potassium,

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<v Speaker 1>as well as just being full of fiber.

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<v Speaker 2>Where the name strawberry comes from is a matter of speculation,

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<v Speaker 2>and the theory is very quite a lot One idea

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<v Speaker 2>is that because they grow on the ground, they may

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<v Speaker 2>have often been seen growing in straw. Another is that

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<v Speaker 2>the berries might have been threaded on straw to be

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<v Speaker 2>easy to carry and sell, or maybe that they were

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<v Speaker 2>stored on beds of straw for transport to markets. Another,

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<v Speaker 2>and one that maybe makes the most sense, is that

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<v Speaker 2>they were first called strawberries because of the way that

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<v Speaker 2>they grew strewn about the ground, or maybe because they

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<v Speaker 2>ripened at the same time as hay did, and then

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<v Speaker 2>that eventually the name shifted to a different vowel in

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<v Speaker 2>the first syllable. I have seen the speculation that maybe

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<v Speaker 2>those little seed like bits on the outside looked like

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<v Speaker 2>straw dust to people, and that was maybe the source

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<v Speaker 2>of it. But anyway, the first known use of the

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<v Speaker 2>word strawberry comes from a pictorial vocabulary of the latter

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<v Speaker 2>fifteenth century. In the fourteenth century, strawberries had become popular

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<v Speaker 2>enough in France that the transition was made from foraging

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<v Speaker 2>them to gardening them. This was a strawberry species that

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<v Speaker 2>had been found in the woods fragaria vesca, which people

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<v Speaker 2>started to purposely grow near their homes for easy access,

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<v Speaker 2>Although they still were often sought out for their visual

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<v Speaker 2>appeal and not necessarily for eating. There are also many

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<v Speaker 2>instances of strawberries appearing in religious art in Europe in

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<v Speaker 2>its early years of cultivation. Strawberries appear in imagery throughout

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<v Speaker 2>the fourteenth and fifteenth centuries, often symbolizing righteousness. In thirteen

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<v Speaker 2>sixty eight, strawberries were included in the gardens of the

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<v Speaker 2>At this time it was still the main palace of

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<v Speaker 2>the King of France, who is Charles the Fifth, and

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<v Speaker 2>at the King's request, royal gardener Jean Dudoit incorporated twelve

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<v Speaker 2>hundred strawberries into the garden's design. I bet that was

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<v Speaker 2>so pretty, yeap. By the fourteen hundred, strawberries were being

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<v Speaker 2>sold by street vendors in London, and by the fifteen hundreds,

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<v Speaker 2>another species Fugaria muscata, also known as the musk strawberry,

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<v Speaker 2>had made its way into gardens as well. Strawberries were

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<v Speaker 2>grown in other European countries in addition to England and France.

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<v Speaker 2>Shakespeare's Richard the Third includes a mention of strawberries by

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<v Speaker 2>the Duke of Gloucester, who described seeing them in the

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<v Speaker 2>garden of the Bishop of Ely and asks that the

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<v Speaker 2>Bishop sent him some. By the time Shakespeare wrote that

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<v Speaker 2>play in fifteen ninety seven, strawberries had been extremely popular

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<v Speaker 2>in England for decades. King Henry the eighth was a

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<v Speaker 2>big fan. They were described does a medicinal remedy in

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<v Speaker 2>the fifteen twenty sixth book The Great herbal and were

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<v Speaker 2>discussed at length in a fifteen thirty sixth book, The

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<v Speaker 2>Natcheri Usturpium Libri, which was written by a botanist named Druelius.

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<v Speaker 2>The strawberry had also been classified as a plant that

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<v Speaker 2>was appropriate for women to cultivate in the fifteen fifty

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<v Speaker 2>seven book Five hundred Points of Good Husbandry. By that

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<v Speaker 2>point there was a clear division in writings between strawberries

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<v Speaker 2>that were purposely grown versus strawberries that were naturally occurring,

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<v Speaker 2>and France had continued to embrace the strawberry into the

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<v Speaker 2>sixteenth century. Henry the fourth of France's personal physician wrote

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<v Speaker 2>about them in the fifteen sixties. Their cultivation was described

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<v Speaker 2>in detail in the fifteen seventy eight writing Le Criculture

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<v Speaker 2>re Maison rustique, written by Jean le Beau and Charles Etienne,

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<v Speaker 2>and in this book that duo recommended that fields should

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<v Speaker 2>be planted with rawberries every third year as a way

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<v Speaker 2>to keep them fertile. Across the Atlantic, North America had

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<v Speaker 2>its own native strawberry, the Fragaria virginiana or Virginia strawberry.

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<v Speaker 2>Sometime in the seventeenth century, the Virginia strawberry made its

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<v Speaker 2>way to Europe. How that happened exactly is a little unclear,

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<v Speaker 2>but as Europe already loved strawberries, this new variety was

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<v Speaker 2>embraced and it started to be actively cultivated and crossed

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<v Speaker 2>with others, creating more than two dozen new species, but

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<v Speaker 2>these were still in terms of the fruit on the

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<v Speaker 2>small side.

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<v Speaker 1>In seventeen fourteen, something happened that changed the strawberry forever.

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<v Speaker 1>The short version is that a native Chilean species known

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<v Speaker 1>as Fragaria chiloensis made its way to Europe. But the

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<v Speaker 1>story is much more interesting than that, and we're going

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<v Speaker 1>to talk about it after we pause for a sponsor break.

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<v Speaker 1>Fragaria chili insis is naturally a bit larger than the

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<v Speaker 1>strawberries that Europeans and North Americans were accustomed to in

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<v Speaker 1>the early eighteenth century. It was more than likely cultivated

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<v Speaker 1>by the mapuch and Huilich people for centuries before Europeans

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<v Speaker 1>ever knew about it. When conquistador Francisco Pizarro's forces conquered

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<v Speaker 1>Chile in the mid sixteenth century, they took some of

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<v Speaker 1>these strawberries with them to Cuzco, Peru. There the fruit

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<v Speaker 1>was written about by Garcelazzo de la Vega. His description

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<v Speaker 1>was of a heart shaped fruit that had seeds on

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<v Speaker 1>the outside. Although it's clear that's talking about a strawberry.

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<v Speaker 1>He called it by a name that we associate with

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<v Speaker 1>something very different. He called it the Chile. Other Europeans

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<v Speaker 1>who traveled to Chile also made note of this fruit,

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<v Speaker 1>comparing it to its European counterparts, but all was mentioning it,

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<v Speaker 1>mentioning that it had better flavor and was larger, some

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<v Speaker 1>comparing them to the size of large nuts. These Chilean

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<v Speaker 1>strawberries are described as being different colors in different people's accounts,

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<v Speaker 1>ranging from red to white, with basically every gradation in between.

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<v Speaker 1>But for some reason, no one writing these descriptions ever

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<v Speaker 1>thought to bring one back to Europe.

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<v Speaker 2>These accounts, and particularly won by French priest Louis Foyer,

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<v Speaker 2>got the attention of France's King Louis the fourteenth. He

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<v Speaker 2>wanted to know more about this delicious berry, so he

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<v Speaker 2>found an engineer who could be sent to the Americas

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<v Speaker 2>to assess the forces of the Spanish colonies there. Louis

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<v Speaker 2>the fourteenths grandson, the Duke of Anjous, had become King

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<v Speaker 2>Philip the Fifth of Spain following the War of Spanish Succession,

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<v Speaker 2>so this spy work was more about making sure things

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<v Speaker 2>were good and that Louis the Fourteenth's financial and political

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<v Speaker 2>backing of Philip the Fifth were worthwhile, as well as

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<v Speaker 2>ensuring that France understood the situation completely in case everything

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<v Speaker 2>went sideways on the global stage. So even though Spain

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<v Speaker 2>and France were allies at this time, this was still

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<v Speaker 2>a secret mission. But the selected spy was also tasked

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<v Speaker 2>with collecting information and samples of the plant life of

0:14:22.160 --> 0:14:26.280
<v Speaker 2>South America. Depending on the source you read, was possibly

0:14:26.760 --> 0:14:30.240
<v Speaker 2>also keeping an eye out for the amazing strawberry that

0:14:30.400 --> 0:14:35.120
<v Speaker 2>Fuia and others had written about. Yes, there's not a

0:14:35.280 --> 0:14:39.080
<v Speaker 2>clear line of evidence that says that that it was

0:14:39.080 --> 0:14:43.520
<v Speaker 2>a straw was like, go get me some strawberries, but

0:14:43.680 --> 0:14:46.400
<v Speaker 2>it does seem like he was very intrigued by them,

0:14:47.280 --> 0:14:52.240
<v Speaker 2>and this person certainly does get some That spy that

0:14:52.280 --> 0:14:54.840
<v Speaker 2>we're talking about was a thirty two year old lieutenant

0:14:54.840 --> 0:14:59.920
<v Speaker 2>colonel named Amade Flansois Flesier. Flesier was born in sixteen

0:15:00.320 --> 0:15:03.120
<v Speaker 2>two in Chamberry, Savoy, which is in the eastern part

0:15:03.120 --> 0:15:08.160
<v Speaker 2>of France. It's about three hundred kilometers from the Swiss border. Initially,

0:15:08.360 --> 0:15:11.400
<v Speaker 2>the path that Amade Francois was expected to follow in

0:15:11.480 --> 0:15:14.280
<v Speaker 2>terms of education was one that was going to lead

0:15:14.360 --> 0:15:17.400
<v Speaker 2>him to the legal profession, which is what his father did.

0:15:18.000 --> 0:15:21.200
<v Speaker 2>But Fresier was not interested in the law. He was

0:15:21.280 --> 0:15:24.400
<v Speaker 2>interested in science, and he managed to convince his father

0:15:24.800 --> 0:15:27.360
<v Speaker 2>that he should go to Paris to study that instead

0:15:27.360 --> 0:15:32.320
<v Speaker 2>of law. In his studies, he focused on navigation and astronomy,

0:15:32.360 --> 0:15:35.080
<v Speaker 2>and he wrote his thesis on the relationship.

0:15:34.440 --> 0:15:37.800
<v Speaker 1>Between the two. And when he had completed his education

0:15:37.920 --> 0:15:40.560
<v Speaker 1>in Paris, he then spent time in Italy, where he

0:15:40.640 --> 0:15:44.360
<v Speaker 1>also indulged his interest in architecture and art and studied

0:15:44.360 --> 0:15:49.080
<v Speaker 1>those disciplines during his time there, but he didn't immediately

0:15:49.160 --> 0:15:54.960
<v Speaker 1>translate his education into a strictly scientific vocation. In seventeen hundred,

0:15:55.000 --> 0:15:58.680
<v Speaker 1>at the age of eighteen, Fresier joined the military, enlisting

0:15:58.720 --> 0:16:01.320
<v Speaker 1>with the Army of France, but he still did keep

0:16:01.360 --> 0:16:04.960
<v Speaker 1>his scientific work going, really for no other reason than

0:16:04.960 --> 0:16:09.160
<v Speaker 1>to occupy himself. He had a lot of free time

0:16:09.200 --> 0:16:13.440
<v Speaker 1>in the infantry. He wrote a paper on pyrotechnics, including

0:16:13.520 --> 0:16:17.760
<v Speaker 1>instructions on the manufacture of fireworks. But this did actually

0:16:17.800 --> 0:16:21.960
<v Speaker 1>advance his military career, as did mention the possible uses

0:16:22.000 --> 0:16:25.320
<v Speaker 1>of fireworks by the military. So this landed him a

0:16:25.600 --> 0:16:30.240
<v Speaker 1>position as a military engineer. That position was part of

0:16:30.240 --> 0:16:32.760
<v Speaker 1>the intelligence branch, and that's how he came to be

0:16:32.880 --> 0:16:35.400
<v Speaker 1>the man for the job that Louis the fourteenth had

0:16:35.440 --> 0:16:40.520
<v Speaker 1>in mind. His varied knowledge of navigation, explosives, and science

0:16:40.600 --> 0:16:44.200
<v Speaker 1>led to him being selected by his commanding officers as

0:16:44.240 --> 0:16:48.320
<v Speaker 1>the man they recommended. He sailed out on January seventh,

0:16:48.440 --> 0:16:53.040
<v Speaker 1>seventeen twelve, when Frasier boarded the ship the Saint Joseph

0:16:53.200 --> 0:16:55.960
<v Speaker 1>headed for South America. He knew that he would be

0:16:56.000 --> 0:16:59.960
<v Speaker 1>undercover as he completed this mission. He arrived in Concepts,

0:17:00.520 --> 0:17:04.199
<v Speaker 1>Chile on June sixteenth, and he couldn't exactly hide, so

0:17:04.359 --> 0:17:08.879
<v Speaker 1>instead he created an alternate backstory for himself and posed

0:17:08.920 --> 0:17:12.679
<v Speaker 1>as a merchant trader. This persona made it possible for

0:17:12.760 --> 0:17:15.560
<v Speaker 1>him to travel openly and to visit places under the

0:17:15.560 --> 0:17:20.880
<v Speaker 1>guise of mere curiosity instead of performing reconnaissance. For two

0:17:20.920 --> 0:17:24.480
<v Speaker 1>and a half years he toured Peru and Chile, feigning

0:17:24.520 --> 0:17:27.119
<v Speaker 1>to be a merchant and a tourist, all the while

0:17:27.240 --> 0:17:32.080
<v Speaker 1>documenting the fortifications of the Spanish military. He made detailed

0:17:32.160 --> 0:17:35.639
<v Speaker 1>maps of the Spanish colonial forts, with detailed accounts of

0:17:35.680 --> 0:17:38.840
<v Speaker 1>their artillery and their weak points where an attack might

0:17:38.880 --> 0:17:42.800
<v Speaker 1>be mounted, as well as their potential roots of escape,

0:17:42.880 --> 0:17:46.480
<v Speaker 1>and accompanying those maps and accounts, he included information about

0:17:46.480 --> 0:17:51.440
<v Speaker 1>the surrounding areas, such as the indigenous populations, the municipal governments,

0:17:51.800 --> 0:17:53.880
<v Speaker 1>religious practices of the locals, etc.

0:17:55.200 --> 0:17:59.560
<v Speaker 2>These were cultivated strawberries in soil that Frazier described as

0:17:59.680 --> 0:18:04.720
<v Speaker 2>quote extraordinarily fertile. He wrote of the location, quote there

0:18:04.880 --> 0:18:08.320
<v Speaker 2>they plant whole fields with a sort of strawberry rushes

0:18:08.480 --> 0:18:12.200
<v Speaker 2>differing from ours, and that the leaves are rounder, thicker,

0:18:12.240 --> 0:18:15.879
<v Speaker 2>and more downy. The fruit is generally as big as

0:18:15.920 --> 0:18:19.199
<v Speaker 2>a walnut, and sometimes as a hen's egg, of a

0:18:19.280 --> 0:18:23.520
<v Speaker 2>whitish red, and somewhat less delicious of taste than our

0:18:23.600 --> 0:18:27.640
<v Speaker 2>wood strawberries. Besides these, there is plenty in the woods

0:18:27.680 --> 0:18:32.240
<v Speaker 2>of our European kind. Frasier also noted in the description

0:18:32.400 --> 0:18:34.840
<v Speaker 2>that he had collected some of these plants for the

0:18:34.920 --> 0:18:38.919
<v Speaker 2>King's garden. He also included a life size drawing of

0:18:38.920 --> 0:18:42.600
<v Speaker 2>the strawberries. He described this drawing showed them full of fruit,

0:18:42.760 --> 0:18:46.600
<v Speaker 2>but not showing the plant's flowers. When Frasier returned to

0:18:46.680 --> 0:18:50.680
<v Speaker 2>France on August seventeenth, seventeen fourteen, he carried with him

0:18:51.240 --> 0:18:54.000
<v Speaker 2>five of the strawberry plants which he had cared for

0:18:54.040 --> 0:18:58.320
<v Speaker 2>on the voyage back across the Atlantic. This was no

0:18:58.440 --> 0:19:02.399
<v Speaker 2>small feet. Listen, if you've ever transported plants, you know

0:19:02.920 --> 0:19:06.119
<v Speaker 2>there are dangers, and in addition to all of the

0:19:06.240 --> 0:19:09.960
<v Speaker 2>jostling that a plant might meet at sea, water was

0:19:10.119 --> 0:19:13.439
<v Speaker 2>rationed on this trip, so prioritizing the plant's need for

0:19:13.520 --> 0:19:17.720
<v Speaker 2>it had required careful calculation in some assistance from a

0:19:17.760 --> 0:19:21.400
<v Speaker 2>crew member who will mention in just a moment. Fresier

0:19:21.600 --> 0:19:24.199
<v Speaker 2>was honored by Louis the fourteenth for this work, with

0:19:24.240 --> 0:19:27.160
<v Speaker 2>a cash reward for the many maps he returned with

0:19:27.640 --> 0:19:32.760
<v Speaker 2>and of course those strawberries. Amedi Fresier wrote a book

0:19:32.840 --> 0:19:36.359
<v Speaker 2>about his travels titled Account of the Voyage from the

0:19:36.400 --> 0:19:39.480
<v Speaker 2>South Sea to the coasts of Chile, Peru, and Brazil,

0:19:39.720 --> 0:19:43.880
<v Speaker 2>made during the years seventeen twelve, seventeen thirteen, and seventeen fourteen.

0:19:45.000 --> 0:19:47.560
<v Speaker 2>Louis the fourteenth did not live long enough to see

0:19:47.600 --> 0:19:51.440
<v Speaker 2>this published. He died on September first, seventeen fifteen, which

0:19:51.520 --> 0:19:53.760
<v Speaker 2>was the year before it was finished, so he really

0:19:53.800 --> 0:19:56.359
<v Speaker 2>didn't get to see the full results of the spy

0:19:56.480 --> 0:19:59.680
<v Speaker 2>mission or the fruit that came from it. A lot

0:19:59.720 --> 0:20:03.080
<v Speaker 2>of people got to read about it, though, because Frasier's book,

0:20:03.200 --> 0:20:06.600
<v Speaker 2>which corrected a number of map errors made by his

0:20:06.720 --> 0:20:11.320
<v Speaker 2>predecessor Lui Flier, and caused an ongoing feud between those

0:20:11.359 --> 0:20:15.840
<v Speaker 2>two men that was translated into English, Dutch, and German.

0:20:16.600 --> 0:20:20.320
<v Speaker 2>Monica Barnes, writing for the American Museum of Natural History

0:20:20.320 --> 0:20:23.800
<v Speaker 2>in two thousand and eight, noted of this popular text quote,

0:20:23.800 --> 0:20:28.960
<v Speaker 2>most of the information in Frasier's text is superficial, obviously biased,

0:20:29.280 --> 0:20:32.840
<v Speaker 2>and available from other sources. However, during the second and

0:20:32.920 --> 0:20:36.280
<v Speaker 2>third decades of the eighteenth century, there was little information

0:20:36.560 --> 0:20:40.960
<v Speaker 2>on western South America available to readers outside the Spanish

0:20:41.040 --> 0:20:45.639
<v Speaker 2>speaking world. To a certain extent, Frasier filled that gap.

0:20:46.200 --> 0:20:49.680
<v Speaker 2>The great strength of his work lies not in its narrative,

0:20:49.920 --> 0:20:52.640
<v Speaker 2>but in its many excellent illustrations.

0:20:53.240 --> 0:20:57.280
<v Speaker 1>The illustrations are very good. So of those five plants

0:20:57.320 --> 0:20:59.520
<v Speaker 1>that we mentioned that he brought back, only one of

0:20:59.520 --> 0:21:02.560
<v Speaker 1>them actually went to the king, or more specifically, to

0:21:02.640 --> 0:21:07.680
<v Speaker 1>the King's gardener in Paris, Antoine de Jusieux. Remember, strawberries

0:21:07.760 --> 0:21:11.320
<v Speaker 1>readily reproduce and spread through runners, so that one plant

0:21:11.520 --> 0:21:14.560
<v Speaker 1>led to many, and in addition to the King's plant,

0:21:14.720 --> 0:21:18.320
<v Speaker 1>Fresier kept one for himself, he gave one to his boss,

0:21:18.320 --> 0:21:22.040
<v Speaker 1>Monsieur Pelletier, and he gave two to a Monsieur Rux,

0:21:22.320 --> 0:21:24.640
<v Speaker 1>who had been in charge of cargo on the voyage

0:21:24.680 --> 0:21:27.960
<v Speaker 1>to France and who had been very key to making

0:21:28.000 --> 0:21:31.640
<v Speaker 1>sure the plants got water. But though all of these

0:21:31.680 --> 0:21:35.639
<v Speaker 1>plants produced new plants through runners, what they weren't producing

0:21:36.240 --> 0:21:39.639
<v Speaker 1>was fruit, because, as it turned out, the Chilean strawberry

0:21:39.720 --> 0:21:42.720
<v Speaker 1>was a species that has male plants and female plants,

0:21:43.640 --> 0:21:47.080
<v Speaker 1>as many strawberries are, and you need both of those

0:21:47.119 --> 0:21:49.439
<v Speaker 1>to achieve pollination and produce fruit.

0:21:50.480 --> 0:21:54.040
<v Speaker 2>It's long been presumed that Fresier, and wanting to bring

0:21:54.200 --> 0:21:58.239
<v Speaker 2>the best plants back to France, naturally selected ones that

0:21:58.280 --> 0:22:03.080
<v Speaker 2>bore large fruit that meant they were all female. Although

0:22:03.160 --> 0:22:06.240
<v Speaker 2>Jesu had shared the runners of the King's plant with

0:22:06.280 --> 0:22:10.320
<v Speaker 2>other gardeners both in France and abroad, they just couldn't

0:22:10.359 --> 0:22:14.600
<v Speaker 2>get them to produce any fruit, except occasionally very small, misshapen,

0:22:14.680 --> 0:22:18.320
<v Speaker 2>and incomplete ones. There were a lot of studies made

0:22:18.320 --> 0:22:21.960
<v Speaker 2>of the plants, with details about their large flowers and

0:22:22.080 --> 0:22:25.720
<v Speaker 2>stout leaves, and all of this was recorded and analyzed,

0:22:25.720 --> 0:22:29.600
<v Speaker 2>but there was just no fruit. One Dutch botanist called

0:22:29.640 --> 0:22:33.200
<v Speaker 2>it the Chili strawberry without blooms or fruits in his notes.

0:22:34.200 --> 0:22:36.760
<v Speaker 2>They were taken to gardeners in England who tried to

0:22:36.800 --> 0:22:41.520
<v Speaker 2>solve the puzzle. Some experimenters got really good at producing large,

0:22:41.680 --> 0:22:44.560
<v Speaker 2>healthy blooms, but that was all the success they could

0:22:44.640 --> 0:22:48.160
<v Speaker 2>really achieve. By the seventeen forties, a lot of gardeners

0:22:48.200 --> 0:22:50.840
<v Speaker 2>had grown tired of trying to get something out of

0:22:50.880 --> 0:22:54.080
<v Speaker 2>the Chilean plants, and in England they had fallen out

0:22:54.080 --> 0:22:54.560
<v Speaker 2>of favor.

0:22:55.600 --> 0:22:59.840
<v Speaker 1>But the strawberry was not abandoned by every hopeful horticulturist.

0:23:00.480 --> 0:23:03.199
<v Speaker 1>We'll talk about the breakthrough that offered some hope for

0:23:03.280 --> 0:23:06.960
<v Speaker 1>the almost mythical berries that Fresier had touted. After we

0:23:07.040 --> 0:23:20.840
<v Speaker 1>paused for a sponsor break. In France, some gardeners were

0:23:21.040 --> 0:23:25.720
<v Speaker 1>managing to produce fruit from Fresier's plants, although not very many.

0:23:26.440 --> 0:23:29.520
<v Speaker 1>There are notes of a Monsieur Denuete Greux, who reported

0:23:29.520 --> 0:23:32.200
<v Speaker 1>that he had managed to get some very large berries,

0:23:32.640 --> 0:23:36.080
<v Speaker 1>some with a circumference of seven point five inches, by

0:23:36.160 --> 0:23:40.639
<v Speaker 1>crossing the Chilean plant with quote pollens from native berries.

0:23:41.920 --> 0:23:45.920
<v Speaker 1>Fifty years after Fresier's plants arrived in Europe, someone produced

0:23:46.000 --> 0:23:49.639
<v Speaker 1>large fruit from a Chilean strawberry and presented a bowl

0:23:49.680 --> 0:23:53.080
<v Speaker 1>of that fruit to King Louis the fifteenth on July sixth,

0:23:53.119 --> 0:23:57.399
<v Speaker 1>seventeen sixty four. That person was a teenager. He was

0:23:57.480 --> 0:24:01.399
<v Speaker 1>just seventeen, and his name was Antoine Kolas Dushane, and

0:24:01.520 --> 0:24:05.399
<v Speaker 1>he got his strawberries by crossing the Chilean strawberries with

0:24:05.640 --> 0:24:09.960
<v Speaker 1>musk strawberries. Dushane, who was in line to inherit the

0:24:10.040 --> 0:24:13.119
<v Speaker 1>job of superintendent of the King's buildings from his father,

0:24:13.760 --> 0:24:16.359
<v Speaker 1>had learned a great deal about botany from the younger

0:24:16.400 --> 0:24:19.720
<v Speaker 1>brother of the King's Paris gardener. That brother's name was

0:24:19.760 --> 0:24:23.160
<v Speaker 1>Bernard de Jasieux, and Dushane was building on the work

0:24:23.200 --> 0:24:27.560
<v Speaker 1>of other gardeners and botanists, and because of this gift

0:24:27.560 --> 0:24:30.560
<v Speaker 1>to the King, he was given funding from the King

0:24:30.640 --> 0:24:33.280
<v Speaker 1>to continue this work, and he used that funding to

0:24:33.359 --> 0:24:37.480
<v Speaker 1>produce what would become a foundational text on strawberry cultivation.

0:24:38.480 --> 0:24:42.200
<v Speaker 1>He also, at the King's request, collected specimens of all

0:24:42.240 --> 0:24:44.960
<v Speaker 1>the known species of strawberry to be part of the

0:24:44.960 --> 0:24:46.199
<v Speaker 1>gardens at Versailles.

0:24:47.440 --> 0:24:51.320
<v Speaker 2>His revelation regarding the sex of the plants had come

0:24:51.359 --> 0:24:54.840
<v Speaker 2>on May twenty ninth, seventeen sixty four, when he had

0:24:54.880 --> 0:24:58.439
<v Speaker 2>a Fragaria chiluensis sent to him from the Versailles garden.

0:24:59.320 --> 0:25:03.000
<v Speaker 2>It had already bloomed and no berries were growing on it,

0:25:03.040 --> 0:25:05.360
<v Speaker 2>and he was able to see that these flowers were

0:25:05.400 --> 0:25:09.600
<v Speaker 2>female without any male Chilean plants. He placed it near

0:25:09.720 --> 0:25:13.280
<v Speaker 2>a male musk strawberry, which he had noticed had some

0:25:13.400 --> 0:25:17.040
<v Speaker 2>similarities to the Chilean import and by June sixth, just

0:25:17.080 --> 0:25:21.000
<v Speaker 2>a week later, one of the receptacles had started to swell.

0:25:21.160 --> 0:25:24.680
<v Speaker 2>It had been pollinated. This was the experiment that led

0:25:24.720 --> 0:25:28.680
<v Speaker 2>to the berries that he presented to the King. Figuring

0:25:28.720 --> 0:25:32.800
<v Speaker 2>out the key to consistent strawberries and their fertility did

0:25:32.800 --> 0:25:37.240
<v Speaker 2>not happen instantly, though. Those beautiful berries that the seventeen

0:25:37.320 --> 0:25:40.760
<v Speaker 2>year old Dushane brought to Versailles had not been able

0:25:40.800 --> 0:25:44.160
<v Speaker 2>to reproduce. They didn't produce viable seeds.

0:25:45.280 --> 0:25:49.960
<v Speaker 1>Dushane dedicated himself to learning basically everything known about the

0:25:49.960 --> 0:25:54.040
<v Speaker 1>strawberry and all of its varieties, as he also experimented

0:25:54.080 --> 0:25:58.639
<v Speaker 1>with different iterations of cross pollination. He also consulted with

0:25:58.760 --> 0:26:03.160
<v Speaker 1>well known scientists, including Linnaeus as he worked through his experiments,

0:26:03.560 --> 0:26:06.159
<v Speaker 1>both for advice and kind of as a sort of

0:26:06.240 --> 0:26:11.320
<v Speaker 1>peer review of his observations. But even Linnaeus was unconvinced

0:26:11.400 --> 0:26:14.879
<v Speaker 1>of this idea of separate male and female plants, and

0:26:14.960 --> 0:26:18.280
<v Speaker 1>he thought that perhaps Dushane had been observing strawberries that

0:26:18.359 --> 0:26:22.960
<v Speaker 1>were frostbitten or damaged in some other way. When Duchane

0:26:23.000 --> 0:26:26.040
<v Speaker 1>wrote his book about his work, he noted, quote no

0:26:26.119 --> 0:26:29.280
<v Speaker 1>one I believe suspected before me the separations of the

0:26:29.359 --> 0:26:32.880
<v Speaker 1>sexes in the capiton. And through working with his own

0:26:32.920 --> 0:26:37.320
<v Speaker 1>experiments and the information he collected from other horticulturists, he

0:26:37.400 --> 0:26:39.840
<v Speaker 1>was able to figure out that the greatest success in

0:26:39.880 --> 0:26:45.040
<v Speaker 1>cross pollination happened when the female Chilean strawberries were combined

0:26:45.080 --> 0:26:50.520
<v Speaker 1>with male Virginia strawberries. Large fruit was the consistent result,

0:26:51.160 --> 0:26:55.240
<v Speaker 1>and that resulting fruit bore seeds, and those seeds produced

0:26:55.320 --> 0:26:59.600
<v Speaker 1>plants that could self pollinate. He had created a new

0:26:59.640 --> 0:27:04.800
<v Speaker 1>species of strawberry, which he called Fragaria ananasa. So ananasa

0:27:04.880 --> 0:27:08.720
<v Speaker 1>is a reference to pineapples, because these resulting berries smelled

0:27:08.760 --> 0:27:13.320
<v Speaker 1>to dushane like pineapple, and the Fragaria ananasa is the

0:27:13.320 --> 0:27:15.080
<v Speaker 1>strawberry that we eat today.

0:27:16.280 --> 0:27:19.400
<v Speaker 2>The success of the combination of the two North American

0:27:19.480 --> 0:27:23.480
<v Speaker 2>strawberry species has led to the theory that these two

0:27:23.520 --> 0:27:28.560
<v Speaker 2>species were possibly originally from the same species, likely one

0:27:28.560 --> 0:27:32.720
<v Speaker 2>that originated in Asia, and that these two lines developed

0:27:32.760 --> 0:27:36.120
<v Speaker 2>in the separate climates of Chile and then farther north

0:27:36.160 --> 0:27:39.800
<v Speaker 2>in North America. If that's the case, the two plant

0:27:39.840 --> 0:27:43.480
<v Speaker 2>species went on a huge journey before being finally brought

0:27:43.560 --> 0:27:47.240
<v Speaker 2>back together in France. So if you speak French, you

0:27:47.320 --> 0:27:49.800
<v Speaker 2>may have been thinking throughout all of this that because

0:27:49.840 --> 0:27:54.240
<v Speaker 2>of this extended spy mission, the word fres which means strawberry,

0:27:54.720 --> 0:27:57.199
<v Speaker 2>was applied to the beloved fruit as an honor to

0:27:57.240 --> 0:28:00.199
<v Speaker 2>the man who brought the Chilean samples back to the

0:28:00.240 --> 0:28:05.040
<v Speaker 2>French king. But in a hilarious twist, that is actually

0:28:05.119 --> 0:28:09.760
<v Speaker 2>the opposite of what happened. Fresier's family already had an

0:28:09.800 --> 0:28:13.639
<v Speaker 2>association with the strawberry going quite away's back, and the

0:28:13.720 --> 0:28:17.040
<v Speaker 2>name Fresier had been gifted to them by a previous

0:28:17.119 --> 0:28:20.240
<v Speaker 2>king of France. So this story goes all the way

0:28:20.240 --> 0:28:24.240
<v Speaker 2>back to the tenth century, when one of amide Frasier's ancestors,

0:28:24.359 --> 0:28:28.040
<v Speaker 2>Julius du Bery, which is hilarious that he was already

0:28:28.080 --> 0:28:31.879
<v Speaker 2>called Berry, served King Charles the Third strawberries at the

0:28:32.000 --> 0:28:35.080
<v Speaker 2>end of a banquet as a gift. Not only was

0:28:35.119 --> 0:28:38.840
<v Speaker 2>the king delighted, but his Italian guest, Cardinal Clemens of

0:28:38.920 --> 0:28:42.840
<v Speaker 2>Monte Alto, was bowled over and described these berries as

0:28:42.880 --> 0:28:46.240
<v Speaker 2>superior to any that could be found in Italy. So

0:28:46.440 --> 0:28:49.280
<v Speaker 2>in thanks for making France look very good with a

0:28:49.280 --> 0:28:53.440
<v Speaker 2>foreign official, Charles the Third knighted Julius de Berry and

0:28:53.560 --> 0:28:57.880
<v Speaker 2>bestowed the name fres Strawberry upon him, as well as

0:28:57.920 --> 0:29:02.560
<v Speaker 2>giving the family coat of arms strawberry blossoms, and then

0:29:02.600 --> 0:29:08.520
<v Speaker 2>over time Frez shifted to Fresier. So in terms of lore,

0:29:08.720 --> 0:29:11.840
<v Speaker 2>it almost seems like Ami Day was destined to be

0:29:11.920 --> 0:29:17.000
<v Speaker 2>Louis the fourteenth Strawberry Guy. As for Fresier's life, host

0:29:17.160 --> 0:29:20.480
<v Speaker 2>strawberry retrieval. It was a full one. He went back

0:29:20.520 --> 0:29:24.000
<v Speaker 2>across the Atlantic in seventeen nineteen, this time as chief

0:29:24.080 --> 0:29:28.080
<v Speaker 2>engineer at Santa Domingo in the Dominican Republic. He returned

0:29:28.080 --> 0:29:31.160
<v Speaker 2>to Europe and oversaw the building of a reported twenty

0:29:31.240 --> 0:29:35.280
<v Speaker 2>six defense structures. He got married and had a family,

0:29:35.840 --> 0:29:39.240
<v Speaker 2>and he continued working, rising higher in his career until

0:29:39.240 --> 0:29:42.640
<v Speaker 2>he finally retired at the age of eighty two. But

0:29:42.680 --> 0:29:45.680
<v Speaker 2>he continued to write and read a great deal and

0:29:45.720 --> 0:29:48.720
<v Speaker 2>died in seventeen seventy three at the age of ninety one,

0:29:49.440 --> 0:29:53.880
<v Speaker 2>having been celebrated for a wide variety of achievements. Yeah,

0:29:53.920 --> 0:29:56.560
<v Speaker 2>he's one of those people that was pretty recognized as

0:29:56.720 --> 0:30:00.360
<v Speaker 2>like an icon and a sage. It is t time

0:30:01.360 --> 0:30:04.480
<v Speaker 2>he got to enjoy the benefit of his reputation while

0:30:04.520 --> 0:30:09.240
<v Speaker 2>he was still alive. Antoine Nicola Dushane continued to experiment

0:30:09.280 --> 0:30:12.800
<v Speaker 2>with strawberries and other plants and published a lot of

0:30:12.840 --> 0:30:16.160
<v Speaker 2>books about his work. He was able, for example, to

0:30:16.240 --> 0:30:20.360
<v Speaker 2>identify the optimal temperatures at which strawberries would produce, and

0:30:20.440 --> 0:30:25.800
<v Speaker 2>eventually also developed a master diagram of the theoretical genealogical tree,

0:30:25.840 --> 0:30:29.320
<v Speaker 2>which included all of the known types of strawberries and

0:30:29.400 --> 0:30:32.960
<v Speaker 2>how he believed they developed from a single origin point.

0:30:33.480 --> 0:30:37.000
<v Speaker 2>When the French Revolution of seventeen eighty nine erupted, Duchane

0:30:37.040 --> 0:30:40.600
<v Speaker 2>lost his post, and because he was so connected to

0:30:40.640 --> 0:30:44.400
<v Speaker 2>the royal family, he was in real danger of being guillotined.

0:30:45.320 --> 0:30:48.440
<v Speaker 2>He did manage to ride out the conflict with his life, though,

0:30:48.480 --> 0:30:51.240
<v Speaker 2>and he turned to teaching once things had settled down.

0:30:52.320 --> 0:30:55.000
<v Speaker 2>But after that his life became sort of a series

0:30:55.080 --> 0:30:58.840
<v Speaker 2>of bad money management, sorrow at the loss of his

0:30:58.920 --> 0:31:04.000
<v Speaker 2>wife and daughter, ventually rapidly declining health. He died in

0:31:04.040 --> 0:31:07.440
<v Speaker 2>eighteen twenty seven after a series of strokes, just shy

0:31:07.560 --> 0:31:12.440
<v Speaker 2>of his eightieth Birthdayshane saw in his lifetime the benefit

0:31:12.560 --> 0:31:16.080
<v Speaker 2>of his work in strawberry breeding. Before he died, many

0:31:16.240 --> 0:31:20.040
<v Speaker 2>many gardeners throughout Europe were implementing the information he had

0:31:20.080 --> 0:31:26.200
<v Speaker 2>developed to produce big, juicy, self fertile strawberry crops. Dishes

0:31:26.240 --> 0:31:30.640
<v Speaker 2>featuring strawberries became luxury items, with strawberries and cream being

0:31:30.920 --> 0:31:36.440
<v Speaker 2>especially popular. Doushane's legacy is still part of every supermarket

0:31:36.480 --> 0:31:41.000
<v Speaker 2>strawberry we eat. The USDA estimates that ninety four percent

0:31:41.120 --> 0:31:45.200
<v Speaker 2>of all US households consumed strawberries in some form each year,

0:31:45.680 --> 0:31:49.600
<v Speaker 2>with each person eating an estimated four point eighty five

0:31:49.720 --> 0:31:55.360
<v Speaker 2>pounds on average annually. The US produces three billion pounds

0:31:55.400 --> 0:31:58.200
<v Speaker 2>of strawberries each year at a rate of about six

0:31:58.280 --> 0:32:03.120
<v Speaker 2>thousand pounds per acre. By the early twenty teens, strawberries

0:32:03.160 --> 0:32:06.160
<v Speaker 2>had become the third most important fruit crop for the

0:32:06.280 --> 0:32:09.880
<v Speaker 2>US economy, following grapes and oranges.

0:32:11.320 --> 0:32:13.640
<v Speaker 1>And all because of Duchane and fresier.

0:32:14.960 --> 0:32:16.800
<v Speaker 2>Do you have some listener mail for us?

0:32:17.080 --> 0:32:19.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I surely do. This is from our listener Katie,

0:32:20.400 --> 0:32:23.400
<v Speaker 1>who writes, Hi, Holly and Tracy, I really enjoyed your

0:32:23.440 --> 0:32:28.240
<v Speaker 1>recent episode on the children's morality code. My kid's elementary

0:32:28.280 --> 0:32:31.600
<v Speaker 1>school has used a program called Character Strong for the

0:32:31.680 --> 0:32:35.040
<v Speaker 1>last several years. I saw some of the lessons when

0:32:35.040 --> 0:32:39.400
<v Speaker 1>school was over zoom. I definitely saw some echoes of

0:32:39.440 --> 0:32:42.800
<v Speaker 1>this old morality code in them. There was one that

0:32:42.920 --> 0:32:45.960
<v Speaker 1>was about determination, if I remember correctly, That featured a

0:32:46.040 --> 0:32:50.320
<v Speaker 1>video celebrating a disabled girl running along race even though

0:32:50.360 --> 0:32:54.400
<v Speaker 1>she was unable to walk. Afterwards, being reminded of the

0:32:54.400 --> 0:32:57.640
<v Speaker 1>program made me curious, so I checked out their website.

0:32:57.920 --> 0:33:00.600
<v Speaker 1>It doesn't have many particulars about the program, but it

0:33:00.640 --> 0:33:04.840
<v Speaker 1>does have this in the description quote explicit direct skill

0:33:04.920 --> 0:33:09.400
<v Speaker 1>instruction designed to lead to three powerful outcomes. Be strong,

0:33:09.560 --> 0:33:13.880
<v Speaker 1>be kind, be well. Yikes, I've sent you all pictures

0:33:13.880 --> 0:33:15.760
<v Speaker 1>of our pets before, so I thought i'd mix it

0:33:15.840 --> 0:33:19.120
<v Speaker 1>up and send a recent quilting project. I'm still a novice,

0:33:19.160 --> 0:33:21.920
<v Speaker 1>but I've made a lot of progress and an Abert's

0:33:21.960 --> 0:33:24.840
<v Speaker 1>squirrel eating fallen bird seed. Thanks for all the work

0:33:24.840 --> 0:33:28.000
<v Speaker 1>you do and throwing in some lighter episodes during all

0:33:28.040 --> 0:33:31.240
<v Speaker 1>of this. You may be a novice, but this quilting

0:33:31.320 --> 0:33:35.920
<v Speaker 1>is beautiful. It's a really beautiful kind of green and

0:33:35.960 --> 0:33:40.440
<v Speaker 1>cream with accents of peach and pink florals on it.

0:33:40.440 --> 0:33:43.960
<v Speaker 1>It's absolutely gorgeous. And I always love a squirrel picture.

0:33:44.000 --> 0:33:46.360
<v Speaker 1>We have squirrel friends to visit our deck all the time.

0:33:47.000 --> 0:33:48.840
<v Speaker 1>I just put out food for them too. We keep

0:33:48.880 --> 0:33:51.800
<v Speaker 1>everybody fat and happy on our deck. But Katie, thanks

0:33:51.800 --> 0:33:57.360
<v Speaker 1>for this. Terrifying to know that we're still doing that garbage.

0:33:57.760 --> 0:34:00.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, like we said in the behind the scenes,

0:34:00.720 --> 0:34:05.200
<v Speaker 2>I totally get teaching kids about things like honesty.

0:34:06.280 --> 0:34:10.440
<v Speaker 1>Yes, and like strength of character great. Yeah, but the

0:34:10.560 --> 0:34:14.440
<v Speaker 1>idea of like you have to push beyond your physical

0:34:14.480 --> 0:34:17.799
<v Speaker 1>limits to a point that seems dangerous, where you are

0:34:17.920 --> 0:34:23.680
<v Speaker 1>unable to function. That's not strength, that's that's dangerous.

0:34:23.800 --> 0:34:28.279
<v Speaker 2>The idea of associating morals with being.

0:34:28.440 --> 0:34:32.600
<v Speaker 1>Well, right, you'll be less disabled if you're stronger is

0:34:32.760 --> 0:34:38.200
<v Speaker 1>messed up. Uh huh, super messed up. I hope somebody

0:34:38.280 --> 0:34:44.280
<v Speaker 1>is reviewing that and realizing how woefully bad it is. Listen,

0:34:45.320 --> 0:34:49.440
<v Speaker 1>teach kids to be kind, take care of themselves and

0:34:49.480 --> 0:34:52.840
<v Speaker 1>one another. So good you don't you don't have to

0:34:52.840 --> 0:34:57.040
<v Speaker 1>do any of the other moralizing about what it is

0:34:57.080 --> 0:35:00.960
<v Speaker 1>to be a stronger. I hate all that. Yes, it

0:35:01.000 --> 0:35:03.239
<v Speaker 1>gives me the ick.

0:35:03.440 --> 0:35:05.719
<v Speaker 2>Really, I'm reminded of the person who sent us a

0:35:05.800 --> 0:35:09.200
<v Speaker 2>letter whose two family rules were don't hit and hold

0:35:09.239 --> 0:35:13.960
<v Speaker 2>hands in the parking lot, which they had as an

0:35:14.000 --> 0:35:17.000
<v Speaker 2>adult sort of re envisioned as be kind to one

0:35:17.040 --> 0:35:18.840
<v Speaker 2>another and look out for each other.

0:35:20.160 --> 0:35:26.120
<v Speaker 1>That's very funny. You are reminding me of many moons ago.

0:35:26.400 --> 0:35:29.680
<v Speaker 1>I used to manage a hair salon and one of

0:35:29.680 --> 0:35:35.040
<v Speaker 1>our clients had two boys and they did the thing.

0:35:35.080 --> 0:35:39.439
<v Speaker 1>I've heard of other families doing this, but this mom

0:35:39.800 --> 0:35:42.560
<v Speaker 1>made these two boys do this in public ones and

0:35:42.600 --> 0:35:44.919
<v Speaker 1>it tickled me. And I don't know if anyone would

0:35:44.960 --> 0:35:49.080
<v Speaker 1>think it was terribly cruel, but they were fighting real bad, okay,

0:35:49.200 --> 0:35:52.680
<v Speaker 1>in public, and so she had a giant shirt that

0:35:52.760 --> 0:35:53.800
<v Speaker 1>she made them wear together.

0:35:54.520 --> 0:35:58.359
<v Speaker 2>I think I've heard of this, the giant shirt story.

0:36:00.160 --> 0:36:03.319
<v Speaker 1>She's not the only one. She stuck out to me

0:36:03.440 --> 0:36:08.600
<v Speaker 1>because of some prominence in terms of being connected to

0:36:08.680 --> 0:36:13.239
<v Speaker 1>a professional athlete. But you know, what was one of

0:36:13.280 --> 0:36:16.040
<v Speaker 1>those things where it just I understand the logic of it.

0:36:16.080 --> 0:36:18.480
<v Speaker 1>I'm not a parent. I don't know what works for

0:36:18.480 --> 0:36:21.200
<v Speaker 1>any given family, but the logic, right is, of course,

0:36:21.239 --> 0:36:23.759
<v Speaker 1>if you have to be in that close proximity, you

0:36:23.840 --> 0:36:29.160
<v Speaker 1>cannot be physically fighting or you will just both fall down. Yeah. Yeah,

0:36:29.200 --> 0:36:31.759
<v Speaker 1>there's a whole restraint discussion to be had there, but

0:36:32.400 --> 0:36:35.640
<v Speaker 1>I get it. Listen, the rules of how people teach

0:36:35.719 --> 0:36:42.920
<v Speaker 1>kids are constantly changing. Yeah. In any case, Yeah, just

0:36:43.239 --> 0:36:45.480
<v Speaker 1>be kind to one another, be kind of look out

0:36:45.480 --> 0:36:48.080
<v Speaker 1>for each other. If you would like to write to

0:36:48.160 --> 0:36:49.759
<v Speaker 1>us to tell us whether or not you had to

0:36:49.760 --> 0:36:51.680
<v Speaker 1>share a shirt with a sibling when you fought, or

0:36:51.719 --> 0:36:54.680
<v Speaker 1>anything else, you can do that at History Podcast at

0:36:54.719 --> 0:36:58.200
<v Speaker 1>iHeartRadio dot com, and you can subscribe to the podcast

0:36:58.480 --> 0:37:01.200
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0:37:01.280 --> 0:37:04.719
<v Speaker 1>listen to your favorite shows.

0:37:08.640 --> 0:37:11.760
<v Speaker 2>Stuff you Missed in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio.

0:37:12.080 --> 0:37:16.719
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0:37:16.840 --> 0:37:18.840
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