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Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways is not brought to you by the New

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Speaker 1: Justice League. Instead, it's brought to you by us or

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Speaker 1: you or music because we're doing this thing. I don't

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Speaker 1: Submissions are due July one. Don't miss it. Be there,

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Speaker 1: be square. Thanks guys, Thinking Sideways. Welcome. I don't know

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Speaker 1: stories of things we simply don't know the answer to.

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Speaker 1: Hi there, Welcome to another episode of Thinking so Oadways.

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Speaker 1: I am Joe, your host, joined as always by Steve

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Speaker 1: and Devin, and we're of course going to talk about

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Speaker 1: another mystery this week. Uh, We're going to talk about

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Speaker 1: the mysterious disappearance of a guy named Dave Box, who

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Speaker 1: was last seen working the graveyard shift on June nineteenth,

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Speaker 1: four at the Fernald Feed Materials production Center in Ohio.

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Speaker 1: A lot of people have been wondering what exactly became

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Speaker 1: of Dave and why I gotta tell you that I'm

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Speaker 1: a little I'm a little upset. Yeah, we're wanting to

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Speaker 1: do this one for years, but I never called DIBs

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Speaker 1: on it. It's my own fault because I love this

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Speaker 1: story as you didn't ever do it. It's exactly. I

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Speaker 1: never called dibbs and I never did it, so it's

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Speaker 1: my own fault. But I'm excited that we're getting to

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Speaker 1: do this because this is a fun one. Well, I've

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Speaker 1: obviously you've been thinking about it too, so you come

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Speaker 1: up with some good think about this for years, and

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Speaker 1: the good news for our listeners is that I get

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Speaker 1: to pretend like I've never heard of it before and

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Speaker 1: ask all the questions you're asking them. So it's perfect exactly.

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Speaker 1: So thank you both for for your enthusiasm. Glad you

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Speaker 1: like this one, and also I want to thank Caitlin

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Speaker 1: and j w are listeners who suggested this one and

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Speaker 1: anybody else who did and somehow got left off our

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Speaker 1: list of people to thank. Sorry about that. But first

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Speaker 1: of all, I want to say, this story is not

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Speaker 1: about Dave Box. It's about Dave Box. Times about Dave Box.

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Speaker 1: B o X it's the Dave Box has spelled b

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Speaker 1: O c K S. It's a good distinction to make. Yeah, exactly,

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Speaker 1: And I hadn't thought. I kept I always had it

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Speaker 1: is I put it R and I've always had For

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Speaker 1: some reason, I kept saying Brox. Yeah, it's box, just box,

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Speaker 1: but not box because obviously if somebody was named Dave Box,

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Speaker 1: he would have changed his name to cardboard. But I

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Speaker 1: don't say there is that cannot definitely be a day box, right, Okay,

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Speaker 1: So our Dave Dave Box was a thirty nine year

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Speaker 1: old who worked as a pipe fitter. He was hired

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Speaker 1: at the for anal feed plant in and he was

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Speaker 1: considered to be a pretty solid employee and a regular fellow.

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Speaker 1: Dave had been married, he had three kids. He had

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Speaker 1: gotten unfortunately divorced several years prior to the time that

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Speaker 1: he quote unquo it went away. And some people, of course,

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Speaker 1: believe he died on the job. In fact, a lot

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Speaker 1: of pretty much everybody does that he died there at

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Speaker 1: but some very important people do not. So yeah, apparently, yeah,

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Speaker 1: And of course there's a certain conspiracy theories. Should I

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Speaker 1: talk about that? Why wouldn't you say that? For the theories. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'll say that then. Okay, like we haven't been doing

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Speaker 1: this for years, I know. Al right, Okay, we'll hold up.

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Speaker 1: But can you talk more about the feed production. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they're for an all feed production center. As the name applies,

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Speaker 1: it produced feed for large animals like cattle and pigs,

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Speaker 1: except in this case the cattle and pigs were actually

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Speaker 1: nuclear reactors, and so the name was actually technically true

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Speaker 1: but a little bit deceptive. Well, it was because they

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Speaker 1: were feeding the materials into the reactors. I believe that's

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Speaker 1: why they called it. The name had feed in it, Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: But it was in an agricultural area and uh, and

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Speaker 1: so a lot of people I've assumed, and it was

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Speaker 1: actually built and owned by the government, the US government,

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Speaker 1: and but they just didn't bother to tell people that

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Speaker 1: actually it was it was shaping uranium into like you know,

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Speaker 1: like uranium rods for reactors and that kind of Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there was three or four specific lugs and stuff like that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: slugs was the one I couldn't think of. Yeah, all

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Speaker 1: these things that they're using to actually fuel the reactors.

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Speaker 1: So they were it was technically feed, it was feed

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Speaker 1: for something something. Yeah, nuclear reactors to right. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think the truth finally started to come out in three

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Speaker 1: when the locals finally found out that this innocent looking

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Speaker 1: plant was actually producing uranium, which is of course perfectly

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Speaker 1: innocent to get me wrong. Well, hold on, Joe, though,

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Speaker 1: so they everybody knew that they were producing uranium. The

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Speaker 1: idea was that they were doing it for reactors for energy.

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Speaker 1: What the big secret was is that they were also

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Speaker 1: making weapons grade nuclear material, which you know, I'm not

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Speaker 1: sure that they were doing that. I think that they

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Speaker 1: took special orders. I think it's okay. So there were six, seven,

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Speaker 1: eight nine. I think there were technically twelve plants, so

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Speaker 1: they only named one through nine is plants, but there

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Speaker 1: was at least two of them that were doing custom

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Speaker 1: work in terms of shaping and all of that kind

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Speaker 1: of stuff. And what I understood that it might actually

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Speaker 1: be some of those actually those custom shops or custom

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Speaker 1: buildings that we're doing some of the shaping for the

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Speaker 1: weapons material. Possible, it might be true. I had thought

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Speaker 1: that they were just taking basically high grade uranium, shaping

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Speaker 1: into rods to to put into reactors so the reactors

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Speaker 1: could convert it to weapons grade fuel. But maybe they

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Speaker 1: were doing all those things. I don't know. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean it sounds like that was a big complex and

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Speaker 1: they were doing all sorts of interesting very hidden, yeah,

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Speaker 1: Indestine stuff, clandestine a little bit obviously. The employees were

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Speaker 1: expected to not talk a lot about what they did.

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Speaker 1: But the plant was there since nine I at least

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Speaker 1: was construction began at fifty one. I don't know. I

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Speaker 1: think it started operating in fifty three, operated until nineteen

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Speaker 1: eighty nine. It's gone suspiciously convenience, so I know for that, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it is, I know. But they have taken away and

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Speaker 1: made it a wildlife reserve or something and there's like

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Speaker 1: animals or birds or something, or a super fun site

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Speaker 1: or yeah, well it was a super fun site. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: But where it's where they raise all of our yeah,

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Speaker 1: all of our all of our three eyed gazelles, and

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Speaker 1: are thinking from the Simpsons is probably from there? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: probably it's nearly. It's called named after the tiny town

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Speaker 1: of Fernal, which I can't really seem to find on

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Speaker 1: the Google aerials, but that's about fifteen miles northwest of Cincinnati, Ohio.

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Speaker 1: The Nasty Uh. It was also known to the locals

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Speaker 1: as NLO. It stands for National Lead of Ohio, which

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Speaker 1: ran the plant for the owners, and of course, as

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Speaker 1: I said, the US government, so it was they sort

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Speaker 1: of ran it on the day to day basis, but

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Speaker 1: still the government made the ultimate decisions as to what

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Speaker 1: happened at the plants. There's owners and then there's the

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Speaker 1: contractor who runs a pretty pretty standards especially for the

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Speaker 1: US government. Yeah, and so the plant was under control

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Speaker 1: of the Atomic Energy Commission until nineteen seventy nine when

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Speaker 1: the Department of Energy took it over. There were some

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Speaker 1: environmental and safety issues with it, and those had actually

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Speaker 1: been ongoing for a long time. I mean since like

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Speaker 1: the fifties, National LED was reporting problems to the a

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Speaker 1: C about you know, Atomic Energy Commission. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And you know, dust like they had these weird bad

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Speaker 1: cloth dust filters because there was a lot of uranium

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Speaker 1: dust from processing allergy r and so that that would

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Speaker 1: get filtrated and deposited these bags kind of like vacuum

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Speaker 1: cleaner bags almost, and well those things had a tendency

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Speaker 1: to break and spewed dust everywhere, and things like this.

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Speaker 1: There are all kinds of issues like this that were

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Speaker 1: ongoing uh, you know what, can I can I take

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Speaker 1: us a side for a second. I was thinking about

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Speaker 1: this today and if you Devin, you may not remember this,

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Speaker 1: but kind of in the seventies and the eighties, there

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Speaker 1: was this this mode of well, this is the way

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Speaker 1: it is, and we'll just do this stuff and it's okay.

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Speaker 1: You know, technology isn't really advancing because by and large

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Speaker 1: the general public didn't see technology making huge leaps and

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Speaker 1: bounds like we do today. Could you imagine what the

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Speaker 1: world would be like if we had all got stuck

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Speaker 1: in say nine two, and for some reason our technology

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Speaker 1: just didn't advance. What a freaking mess things would be

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Speaker 1: in terms of all of the stuff that, oh it's okay,

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Speaker 1: you can pour it into the river, you can bury

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Speaker 1: it into the ground, that doesn't matter. Yeah, well we

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Speaker 1: weren't quite there, and by by two we were cleaning

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Speaker 1: things up actually well but not everywhere. But my point

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Speaker 1: is like, what would have been if we had just

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Speaker 1: stopped doing and just kept on status quo. But from

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Speaker 1: the nineties it sounds like something to write to the

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Speaker 1: Star Trek people about, Yeah, have him do an episode

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Speaker 1: on that. Yeah, I think they might have plant of

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Speaker 1: the triples. Yeah, Captain's lacks started eight in nineteen seventy two.

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Speaker 1: Oh but enough about those environmental issues which they had,

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Speaker 1: but there we'll talk a little bit more about that

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Speaker 1: in a little while. Um, but they did have those,

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Speaker 1: but we don't know whether or not they had much

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Speaker 1: to do with Dave Box or not. That really wasn't

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Speaker 1: his job. He wasn't, like I said, a pipe fitter,

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Speaker 1: and his job was to like, you know, inspect and

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Speaker 1: repair various equipment, equipment pipes whatever, like the pipes that

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Speaker 1: were feeding the vacuum tubes. Yeah, he's part of the

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Speaker 1: maintenance crew. He worked the midnight shift. He was the

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Speaker 1: swing yard midnight to like seven am or something. So

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Speaker 1: his job was straight up maintenance. Pretty much. The plant

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Speaker 1: was shut down and he and his crew would go

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Speaker 1: out and just maintain things. Dave was last seen at

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Speaker 1: their Fronald plant about five am on the morning of

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Speaker 1: June nine. He was pronounced legally dead about two years later. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And so let's start in the night of Dave's disappearance. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: he had carpooled to work with a guy named Harry Easterling,

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Speaker 1: which usually carpooled with her. Yeah. Yeah, he's a regular guy.

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Speaker 1: And and actually Harry, if you want to see what

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Speaker 1: Harry looked like, he has has a beard, genial looking fellow.

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Speaker 1: He was. He appeared on Unsolved Mysteries on an episode

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Speaker 1: about this. Yeah, and uh, he and Harry usually met

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Speaker 1: at this restaurant parking lot and one of them would

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Speaker 1: leave their car and they go in one car. On

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Speaker 1: that night, Harry picked up Dave about eleven pm. Harry

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Speaker 1: reported no unusual behavior from Dave that night, except that

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Speaker 1: he had bought to do lunchbox. So, yeah, that's suspicious,

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Speaker 1: it's exciting. Yeah, and that's about He said something about

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Speaker 1: maybe he was talking about maybe taking his kids on

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Speaker 1: vacation the next summer or something or later in the summer.

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Speaker 1: Harry Stilling said that he and Dave always began they

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Speaker 1: worked in the maintenance room, which apparently was in this

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Speaker 1: thing they called the maintenance bill. Uh. Yeah, it was

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Speaker 1: a special maintenance building. He said that Dave, as usual

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Speaker 1: that day, unlocked his toolbox and left the lock with

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Speaker 1: the keys in it on top of the box. Dave's

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Speaker 1: assignment that day was to go repair some equipment and

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Speaker 1: plan eight in what was called the Whistleblower meat hooks

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Speaker 1: or Yeah, I don't think it. I don't think so

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Speaker 1: that he wasn't signed a plan eight. I'm not sure exactly.

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Speaker 1: I'd heard, not specifically what he was supposed to do

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Speaker 1: over there, but he was supposed to go do something. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And I, by the way, I tried to find a

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Speaker 1: map of this whole complex because it's a huge place,

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Speaker 1: and I I guess the government didn't publish maps of it,

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Speaker 1: surprisingly enough, I know I was not able to find

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Speaker 1: one on the website the government facility. Yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: like you probably can't find maps of like Vonneville Dam,

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Speaker 1: for instance, can you probably not? I mean you wouldn't.

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Speaker 1: That's not the sort of thing you would want the

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Speaker 1: general public to be able to snag just in case. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: attention terrorists, pressure point right there, This is where you

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Speaker 1: put the bomb. Yeah, so no map, So I where

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Speaker 1: all these buildings are in relation to one another? I

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Speaker 1: don't know. And of course the place is torn down.

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Speaker 1: You can't even look at it and look at it

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Speaker 1: on Google. It's gone. So we're just gonna have to

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Speaker 1: wing it on that one. But Dave left his toolbox

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Speaker 1: innimatenance room instead of taking it with him I'm not

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Speaker 1: sure why he did that, but apparently get that on

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Speaker 1: a regular basis. Apparently. Yeah, so he must have just

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Speaker 1: decided what tools he was gonna need and taken them

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Speaker 1: and seems like, I mean he'd worked there for a while.

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Speaker 1: Had he'd worked there for about three years, you probably

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Speaker 1: go to that point. No, you know, if somebody says, okay,

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Speaker 1: you gotta go fix this certain type of pipe, he says,

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Speaker 1: all right, I need these five different tools, and you know,

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Speaker 1: probably hourly, so like, oh no, if he has to

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Speaker 1: walk back first, if you've ever, I mean, yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: a government job, so who cares if you have to

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Speaker 1: walk back and forth five times? You're still getting paid

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Speaker 1: the same rather than logging that heavy box. But Joe,

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Speaker 1: I thought he had worked there longer than I thought

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Speaker 1: he had started there, like more than a decade prior

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Speaker 1: to his disappearance. I don't not could be wrong. I

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Speaker 1: heard that he started one but okay, I really I

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Speaker 1: thought that he had been working there since the early

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Speaker 1: to mid seventies. Maybe he started his position as a

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Speaker 1: pipe fitter in eighty one, but he was doing something else.

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Speaker 1: Maybe that's it. He started out like as a typist

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Speaker 1: or something like that, well, you know, like a general

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Speaker 1: maintenance handyman or something. Yeah, it's okay. I just swore

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Speaker 1: he'd been there for much longer, Like I felt like

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Speaker 1: he had had a lot of career time there. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't know what does What does matter is that

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Speaker 1: this particular night was the last night of his career there.

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Speaker 1: Uh and then okay, what was I Oh? Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: was talking about his toolbox. Uh, it was the toolbox

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Speaker 1: was there. A few days later after they disappeared, he

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Speaker 1: left his toolbox, went off to Plan eight to fix

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Speaker 1: the radioactive snitch rectifier which was reportedly making an odd sound?

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Speaker 1: Did it? And his his toolbox was missing some tools

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Speaker 1: though right, nobody has said that I can find whether

262
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Speaker 1: what tools were gone, what tools were not gone, But

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Speaker 1: the toolbox was there and with a lock on top

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Speaker 1: of it. Apparently Dave trusted his coworkers. Yeah. I guess

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Speaker 1: they must have all had a good relationship or it

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Speaker 1: was company tools. Yeah, and maybe he didn't care a

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Speaker 1: good point, which is the weird. That is weird though,

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Speaker 1: Why would you leave your keys instead of carrying him around? Well,

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Speaker 1: that's the thing is, you know, he gets he gets

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Speaker 1: the toolbox out and it's got a padlock on it,

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Speaker 1: so obviously he doesn't trust people to not steal from it.

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Speaker 1: Then he opens he doesn't trust the day people. I

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Speaker 1: had thought he trust the maintenance people, nobody else. That

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Speaker 1: must be what it is. Yeah, but so they're probably

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Speaker 1: throwing his tools in the in the the oil vats

276
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Speaker 1: or the acid vats or something. I think it was funny. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: look at this. Yeah, people are like planting drugs in

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Speaker 1: the air, planting crack. So that night, according to Unsolved

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Speaker 1: Mysteries and Unnamed coworker days so and we never do

280
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Speaker 1: get a chance to find out who this person was.

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Speaker 1: He was unnamed. He said that he saw David a

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Speaker 1: pickup truck with this supervisor having a heated discussion about something,

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Speaker 1: but the windows of the truck were rolled up, so

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Speaker 1: the coworker could not hear what was being discussed. By

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Speaker 1: the way, this struct the coworker as odd the windows

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Speaker 1: being up because it was a warm night. So I

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Speaker 1: I have a one. I'm always disturbed when we have

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Speaker 1: a single source for something like that, especially when it

289
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Speaker 1: comes from unsolved mysteries. But I had heard it as

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Speaker 1: not a heated but a serious conversation. But I've heard

291
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Speaker 1: it actually characterized as an argument. Well, I was gonna say,

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Speaker 1: there's there's a couple of different Well what if you

293
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Speaker 1: look at it. I was thinking about it. It's a

294
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Speaker 1: serious conversation. It could be a very serious quiet tone,

295
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Speaker 1: or it could be serious as in one person like trying.

296
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Speaker 1: It's serious. They're not trying not to cry or something.

297
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Speaker 1: But the whole, the whole. The windows were up. What

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Speaker 1: I want to know was the vehicle turned on because

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Speaker 1: it might have had the Well that's what I was

300
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Speaker 1: wondering too, So the windows being rolled up might have

301
00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:04,920
Speaker 1: been totally normal. Again, it's a government vehicle, so it

302
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Speaker 1: probably didn't have a C because they always thought the

303
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Speaker 1: cheapest possible. Yeah, actually it was eighty four. I bet

304
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Speaker 1: government vehicles I'll have a C now standard, Yeah, but

305
00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:18,040
Speaker 1: maybe not back in those days. Now, I remember my

306
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Speaker 1: dad being in government vehicles, you know, regular civilian cars

307
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Speaker 1: and trucks, and they were always the lowest model. It's

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Speaker 1: kind of like you've been in a forced service truck before,

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Speaker 1: how don't you, Joe? I think? So they have nothing

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Speaker 1: in them. Whatever comes, bare bones standard is what they get.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, but then it gets a supervisor vehicle, so

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Speaker 1: maybe he maybe yeah, yeah, but anyway, again, this is

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Speaker 1: coming to us courtesy of some unnamed audonymous person too,

314
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Speaker 1: so who the hell knows, And apparently the same person

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Speaker 1: around five am spotted David again and Dave was headed

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Speaker 1: towards Plant four, which also struck this coworkers odd since

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Speaker 1: Dave's job assignment, of course, was in plant eight and

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Speaker 1: we don't we we don't have any records that say

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Speaker 1: that he finished the job in plant eight and may

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Speaker 1: have been sent to four to deal with something else. Well,

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00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:14,960
Speaker 1: that's entirely possible. Also, plant four there was supposed to

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Speaker 1: be a like a safety meeting around seven am, so

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Speaker 1: I was thinking maybe he was headed there early to

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Speaker 1: get a good seat or to take an out. It

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Speaker 1: could have been taken an app or screw at lunch. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: who knows. And I don't know what's in the direction

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Speaker 1: of plant for maybe plant three, Plant five, something else

328
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Speaker 1: Plant eight. Maybe you know they're parallels, so it's one, two, three, four,

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Speaker 1: seven eight, and then they're just right next to each other.

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Speaker 1: I am not knowing, it doesn't matter, but yeah, so anyway,

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Speaker 1: that was that was he was. This was the last

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Speaker 1: person who saw Dave alive allegedly, Yeah, allegedly, at least

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Speaker 1: the last person has come forward. Yeah, it was admitted

334
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Speaker 1: seeing alive. Dave did not make it to the safety meeting.

335
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Speaker 1: Of course, maybe that's not why he was headed towards

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Speaker 1: plant form. Maybe, like we said, maybe he was head

337
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Speaker 1: towards Plant five, Plant three and a half. I don't know.

338
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Speaker 1: Harry Easterly said that at the end of the shift

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Speaker 1: he noticed that Dave's toolbox was still sitting there with

340
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Speaker 1: the keys on it, but no Dave. Harry looked for

341
00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:16,439
Speaker 1: Dave for a little bit, eventually left a message with

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Speaker 1: the security guard to give to day of saying that

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Speaker 1: he was going home, saying that he would meet again

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Speaker 1: the usual spot tomorrow. Harry thought, Um, he was just

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00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:25,919
Speaker 1: figured he'd pick up more work for them, doing some

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Speaker 1: overtime or something like that. Although, God, it seems like,

347
00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:32,720
Speaker 1: how do you either of you remember what he said?

348
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Speaker 1: Their commute time was from the restaurant to the plant.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. That's a good I'm assuming it was

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Speaker 1: somewhat substantial. I mean, otherwise that why bother carpool Well,

351
00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:43,800
Speaker 1: and that's exactly my thing. Like it also couldn't have

352
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Speaker 1: been more than an hour, because if they started at

353
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Speaker 1: midnight and Matt at eleven, but a thirty minute drive

354
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Speaker 1: is a long way to have to hoof it on

355
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Speaker 1: foot if he decides to work a couple of hours,

356
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Speaker 1: like you would think that I understand why Harry called

357
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Speaker 1: and said, hey, tell him I left, so he could

358
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Speaker 1: you controle somebody into giving him a ride to his

359
00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:05,040
Speaker 1: vis Assume that's what happened, that somebody gave him would

360
00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:06,760
Speaker 1: have given him a ride, so he didn't give him.

361
00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:08,679
Speaker 1: And this is in the days, of course, before we

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Speaker 1: had text messaging, although inter company phones are a thing,

363
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Speaker 1: and so you would imagine that he would have called

364
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Speaker 1: the switchboard and figured out where the hell he was

365
00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:19,639
Speaker 1: so he could try Dave. That is, if Dave was

366
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Speaker 1: working over time, could have figured out where Harry was

367
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Speaker 1: and called Harry and told him. But I don't know.

368
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Speaker 1: Reportedly Dave had a walkie talkie on him there, so

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Speaker 1: I would assume they all have talkies and that's the

370
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Speaker 1: equivalent of inner office phones. Yeah, so I don't know

371
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Speaker 1: if Harry tried to raise him in milwaukie talkie. I

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Speaker 1: assume he would have, but I got no reply back

373
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Speaker 1: because well, I don't know something happened to Dave, so

374
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Speaker 1: Dave doesn't go home with Harry. He does not, but

375
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Speaker 1: Harry the next night goes to meet Dave in the

376
00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:49,800
Speaker 1: usual place in the restaurant parking lot. Sees Dave's car

377
00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:52,520
Speaker 1: park there and assumed that Dave was not in the car,

378
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Speaker 1: seon that he might be in the restaurant getting some

379
00:19:54,359 --> 00:19:58,240
Speaker 1: food or something. But they did that, yeah, occasionally. But Davids,

380
00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:01,720
Speaker 1: it turns out, was not in the restaurant either. So

381
00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:05,480
Speaker 1: Harry goes to work, looks for Dave. Dave's not there,

382
00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:08,520
Speaker 1: and so he reported him missing, and they began to

383
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Speaker 1: search of the premises, which, as you can imagine, would

384
00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:12,840
Speaker 1: have taken a while because it's a big, big place,

385
00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:15,639
Speaker 1: and isn't this where Harry said he got to the

386
00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:20,200
Speaker 1: got to the maintenance building and saw Dave's lock and

387
00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:24,080
Speaker 1: and everything sitting there were still wide open from the

388
00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:28,480
Speaker 1: night before or presumably from the night before. Yeah, Dulux

389
00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:30,520
Speaker 1: still sitting there with keys on it or in it.

390
00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:33,560
Speaker 1: So they started the search, and sometime in the morning

391
00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:36,520
Speaker 1: of the twentieth, that's June twenty, somebody and Plant six

392
00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:39,040
Speaker 1: noticed that one of the furnaces in the building there.

393
00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:42,080
Speaker 1: There were several different types, but one of them had

394
00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:45,440
Speaker 1: suddenly dropped twenty eight degrees in temperature at five fifteen

395
00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:49,520
Speaker 1: a m on June nine, Plant six. In Plant six. Yeah,

396
00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:52,080
Speaker 1: so in Plant six, there were three types of furnaces

397
00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:54,520
Speaker 1: that I've been able to find out about, and they

398
00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:58,240
Speaker 1: operated the temperatures between about eleven fifty degrees fahrenheit and

399
00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:04,600
Speaker 1: about thirteen hundred sixty five degrees fahrenheit. That is celsius hot.

400
00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:07,760
Speaker 1: It's hot. Yeah, it's really smoking hot. It's like ninety

401
00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:13,840
Speaker 1: nine degrees celsius. I don't know, but it's super hot. Yeah.

402
00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:17,600
Speaker 1: It's hot enough to I think make you uncomfortable. Yeah,

403
00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:21,399
Speaker 1: at least briefly until you died. Yeah. The furnace in question,

404
00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:23,920
Speaker 1: at least as far as I can tell, what's called

405
00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:28,320
Speaker 1: the automated ingot preheat furnace, which contained a bath of

406
00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:30,840
Speaker 1: molten salt which has kept in a temperature of around

407
00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:34,119
Speaker 1: twelve hundredgrees fahrenheit. Uh. And this was used for heating

408
00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:37,080
Speaker 1: and softening and radium ingots which were then squished into

409
00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:40,280
Speaker 1: around around her more rod shaped form and something called

410
00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:45,000
Speaker 1: a blooming press blooming machine. Wait, I okay, now is it.

411
00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:47,320
Speaker 1: Actually I saw this in your stuff before, and I

412
00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:50,280
Speaker 1: was confused a little bit here, Joe, because it's not

413
00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:54,080
Speaker 1: actually salt. They called it green salt, but it wasn't

414
00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:58,560
Speaker 1: actually salt table salt. But it's it's it's some sorts,

415
00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:02,120
Speaker 1: but I mean it's metal is and um, okay, there

416
00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:05,320
Speaker 1: is some salt in it, but it's I guess that's

417
00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:07,000
Speaker 1: what I want to make sure people don't think that

418
00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:11,040
Speaker 1: it's the white stuff that you pour on quite the

419
00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:13,800
Speaker 1: same now. And by the way, sodium is metal. Have

420
00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:16,760
Speaker 1: you ever seen pure sodium. It's been a while. Yeah,

421
00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:19,200
Speaker 1: it's just it's metal. I mean, yeah, so that's salty.

422
00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:21,879
Speaker 1: You're eating this metal, man, that's okay that you need that.

423
00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:24,159
Speaker 1: Your body needs minerals, so it's not a problem, just

424
00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:28,119
Speaker 1: not the heavy kind. Yeah. No, These furnaces took days

425
00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:30,280
Speaker 1: to heat up and cool down, so they were left

426
00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:33,280
Speaker 1: on all the time, even of course overnight when the

427
00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:35,600
Speaker 1: production minds were all shut down and all the rightness

428
00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:39,040
Speaker 1: workers are out. It's not uncommon in production facilities. Yeah yeah,

429
00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:42,879
Speaker 1: and uh, and so in the morning is one of

430
00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:46,000
Speaker 1: the operators of the furnace noticed a sticky residue on

431
00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:49,880
Speaker 1: it again. Again this is somewhat apocryphal. I'm not totally sure.

432
00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:53,239
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, if it is a skin on

433
00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:57,880
Speaker 1: the top of this liquid hot molten liquid material, I

434
00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:03,520
Speaker 1: think the term sticky is inappropriately applied because everything is

435
00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:06,240
Speaker 1: gooey hot. Yeah, are you gonna be sticking your finger

436
00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:08,240
Speaker 1: down there to like figure? But I think he was

437
00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:10,320
Speaker 1: noticing he was on the casing of it, like on

438
00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:13,879
Speaker 1: the outside and on the inside. And so I'm not

439
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:16,879
Speaker 1: really sure where this one comes from because I besides reading,

440
00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:20,800
Speaker 1: I read some newspaper accounts, and also there was a

441
00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:23,840
Speaker 1: court case were involving this stuff, and I didn't see

442
00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:27,560
Speaker 1: anything about a sticky substance or anything like that. But

443
00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:30,520
Speaker 1: again this is this is again from Unsolved Mysteries. Yeah,

444
00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:35,160
Speaker 1: so again I questioned where that's real or not. Yeah. Again,

445
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:37,560
Speaker 1: this is not one of those persons too who was unnamed.

446
00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:39,200
Speaker 1: You know, they don't they only they only have actually

447
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:44,200
Speaker 1: two people there who actually are named David, Dave's daughter

448
00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:47,119
Speaker 1: and Harry, the only ones who actually go on camera

449
00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:51,800
Speaker 1: and are named. Well, Dave doesn't go on camera, yeah Davis. Yeah,

450
00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:54,040
Speaker 1: oh yeah, there was a Dave in there. Yeah, that's

451
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:57,720
Speaker 1: the real point. Yeah, different guy. But one thing we

452
00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:00,479
Speaker 1: do know about unsolved mysteries or not, is they did

453
00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:02,920
Speaker 1: indeed shut that furnace off so they can look inside

454
00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:05,440
Speaker 1: and see if there are any clues in there about

455
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:08,320
Speaker 1: the missing Dave, because they hadn't found him anywhere else.

456
00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:10,399
Speaker 1: But it took three days, of course for the furnace

457
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:12,560
Speaker 1: to cool down enough to where they could stick their

458
00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:16,160
Speaker 1: hands in there and feel around. I'm pretty sure they

459
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:19,719
Speaker 1: still didn't do that, but maybe when they finally got

460
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:22,560
Speaker 1: around to poking around in the furnace, they did find

461
00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:25,280
Speaker 1: stuff that shouldn't have been there. There was a set

462
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:29,440
Speaker 1: of keys, a steel toe from a work boot, part

463
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:32,720
Speaker 1: of an eyeglass frame, and Dave of course did wear glasses,

464
00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:35,879
Speaker 1: pieces of milwakie talking and a piece of stainless steel

465
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:39,879
Speaker 1: wire that had been looped together in three circles. You

466
00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:43,120
Speaker 1: know the size of that. No, am I the only

467
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:46,720
Speaker 1: one that's amazed that they find these things in a

468
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:51,720
Speaker 1: molten furnace that was operating for at least a day.

469
00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:54,640
Speaker 1: I thought it was suspicious that they found that ring

470
00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:57,720
Speaker 1: under Clarence Roberts and that was just a fire and

471
00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:00,760
Speaker 1: some gold. This is incredible to me. Well, actually I

472
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:03,480
Speaker 1: checked out because I was thinking to like, they found

473
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:06,560
Speaker 1: the keys, for example, and the keys were not totally undamaged,

474
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:09,440
Speaker 1: but I would have expected them to just be a

475
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:13,880
Speaker 1: little Well, it turns out like the melting point of brass,

476
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:16,280
Speaker 1: which is what most keys are made of, is actually

477
00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:20,840
Speaker 1: well above twelve degrees oh yeah, fahrenheit. So this is

478
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:24,520
Speaker 1: like that Breaking Bad when he's like, oh, I'm just

479
00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:26,760
Speaker 1: gonna stick all of this certain kind of thing in

480
00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:29,399
Speaker 1: the tub because that's going to be stronger than the

481
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:31,840
Speaker 1: plastic that Mr White told you? Did you not see?

482
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:34,119
Speaker 1: I saw Breaking Bad. I don't remember that particular one

483
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:37,359
Speaker 1: when he's trying to decompose the bodies and he has

484
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:39,560
Speaker 1: the acid and he's like, I'm going to stick it

485
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:42,040
Speaker 1: in the tub. Yeah, it's like that, right. You just

486
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:44,760
Speaker 1: logically in your brain you're like, well, yeah, it's hot,

487
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:48,880
Speaker 1: so it melts metal. That's cool. But apparently not it does.

488
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:51,160
Speaker 1: It's just not well, yeah, it's just not quite hot

489
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:55,280
Speaker 1: enough to do that. So well that actually also the

490
00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:58,320
Speaker 1: human bone does not disintegrate either. It's it's like it's

491
00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:00,919
Speaker 1: it would be cooked enough to where it extremely brittle

492
00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:02,879
Speaker 1: and where it would it would break up in a

493
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:06,879
Speaker 1: in a you know, fragment very easily, but it doesn't. Actually,

494
00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:09,040
Speaker 1: if you were to like heat a human skeleton of

495
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:12,000
Speaker 1: that temperature, it would stay intact. I mean you could

496
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:14,840
Speaker 1: crush it very very easily, but it would stay intact.

497
00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:20,000
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, no, you're right. That's why crematoriums pulverized bones

498
00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:23,320
Speaker 1: once they come out of the fire. Everyone welcome, everyone

499
00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:28,320
Speaker 1: totally totally just forgot about that. Yeah, And we don't

500
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:31,680
Speaker 1: know anything about the steel wire No, no, no, not that.

501
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:35,840
Speaker 1: And it was d of the size of loops where

502
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:38,320
Speaker 1: I think about three or four inches across, and there

503
00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 1: were it was like one piece of wire but looped

504
00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:44,160
Speaker 1: in the three loops. Mysterious kind of like clover leaf shape,

505
00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:47,320
Speaker 1: kind of like that, kind of like a three leaf clover. Uh.

506
00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:49,840
Speaker 1: I mentioned there were fragments of human bones found in

507
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:51,920
Speaker 1: there too. Yeah, that's why we were talking about the

508
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:56,600
Speaker 1: human bone. Yeah, crematory pulverizing your bones. Yeah, some guy

509
00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:58,800
Speaker 1: with a ball peen hammer. Yeah. I don't know how

510
00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:00,360
Speaker 1: they do that. If they just have they just take

511
00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:06,960
Speaker 1: it up to the parking lot. No, no, they actually

512
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:10,879
Speaker 1: it's kind of messy. No, they have something equivalent to

513
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:15,640
Speaker 1: the the ninja bullet juicer that you have in your

514
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:18,920
Speaker 1: home on a much bigger scale that they shoved those

515
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:21,840
Speaker 1: big chunks into to break them up. You would think

516
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:24,720
Speaker 1: they would just do two big plates that would work.

517
00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:29,840
Speaker 1: So okay, sorry, so yeah, take yeah, we are totally off.

518
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:32,680
Speaker 1: Did the cops get called at this point? Of course

519
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:34,879
Speaker 1: the other police were called. The police weren't called before

520
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:37,359
Speaker 1: they cooled it down, though. I think they were called

521
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:40,000
Speaker 1: actually right away, but of course there wasn't There wasn't

522
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:41,399
Speaker 1: much they could do. But Harry got to work the

523
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:45,120
Speaker 1: next day, didn't. Yeah, I don't know if they called

524
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:46,720
Speaker 1: him right away. They might have actually just had a

525
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:49,359
Speaker 1: company only searched around that around, and then eventually when

526
00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:51,240
Speaker 1: they couldn't find him and they discovered there was a

527
00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:54,080
Speaker 1: possibility that somebody had died into mishap, then they called

528
00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:57,800
Speaker 1: the police. Smart yeah, and a local depe sheriff it

529
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:00,920
Speaker 1: was Victor CORRELLI said that the keys that were found,

530
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:03,919
Speaker 1: one of them was to Dave's car. Another one they

531
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,600
Speaker 1: believe was to his house, but they couldn't tell for

532
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:08,879
Speaker 1: shirt because it was bad and damaged and so they

533
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:12,040
Speaker 1: couldn't really confirm that. Uh. And then apparently three other

534
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:14,199
Speaker 1: ones went to padlocks, and that's about all they know

535
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:16,800
Speaker 1: about the keys. And the keys cost a little bit

536
00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:20,880
Speaker 1: of consternation for Harry Easterling because he's seen his keys. Yeah,

537
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:23,520
Speaker 1: a little odd and I think because we just heard

538
00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 1: that he saw the padlock unlocked on top of yeah,

539
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:30,160
Speaker 1: with the keys in it. Yeah, and so and so

540
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:33,640
Speaker 1: that he had seen them on the morning of the nineteen,

541
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:37,679
Speaker 1: two hours after five fifteen, when the temperature dropped in

542
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:41,080
Speaker 1: the furnace, Harry had seen them on the toolbox and

543
00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:44,200
Speaker 1: then like when Yeah, and then the next day when

544
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:46,240
Speaker 1: he comes back to work, they're still they're sitting on

545
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:48,960
Speaker 1: the toolbox. And yet three days later they found in

546
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:53,120
Speaker 1: the furnace. Yeah, which is a little strange. That is

547
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 1: a little strange, Yeah, I think so. Yeah. At this point,

548
00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:00,320
Speaker 1: so what the authorities knew that was that Dave box

549
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:03,880
Speaker 1: was missing. They also knew there was evidence that somebody

550
00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:07,040
Speaker 1: had wound up in a furnace and plant six something

551
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:10,360
Speaker 1: had ended up. They didn't know at that point. It's

552
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:13,040
Speaker 1: just the initial or after they had cooled the thing off.

553
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:15,440
Speaker 1: This is like after they cooled it all, after they

554
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:18,160
Speaker 1: cooled it off and pulled stuff out of it, I

555
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:20,320
Speaker 1: thought you were saying when they initially showed up, Yeah,

556
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:23,480
Speaker 1: but there was evidence that there was somebody in that furnace.

557
00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:25,840
Speaker 1: Beyond that, they really didn't know much. Said the local

558
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:28,800
Speaker 1: corner's office wouldn't sign a death certificate because there was

559
00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:31,479
Speaker 1: a lack of evidence that David died. The sheriff's department

560
00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:33,840
Speaker 1: was treating essentially as a missing person case, and they

561
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 1: kept the file open. But everybody kind of believed that

562
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:40,040
Speaker 1: Dave had died in the furnace and plants six. The

563
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:43,120
Speaker 1: question was, well, how and why was it an accident?

564
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:49,120
Speaker 1: Did Dave commit suicide or was he perhaps murdered? Yeah,

565
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 1: members of the Day's family had said they're sure it

566
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:54,800
Speaker 1: was not suicide. Of course they often do um. But

567
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:58,160
Speaker 1: his daughter said that David bought groceries for the week,

568
00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 1: he paid all his bills, planning a vacation with his kids. Right. Yeah.

569
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:07,920
Speaker 1: On the other hand, Dave apparently there did have some issues.

570
00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 1: Apparently around the time of his divorce, he did attempt suicide.

571
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:13,400
Speaker 1: And I'm not I'm not sure how serious an attempt

572
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:16,120
Speaker 1: we're talking about here, but apparently I was gonna ask

573
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 1: that if there's any record of, you know, did he

574
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:22,560
Speaker 1: shoot a gun and barely miss himself or did he

575
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:27,800
Speaker 1: do the cry for attention, Yeah, take some pills badly

576
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:31,040
Speaker 1: scratch himself with with a safety razor on the risk

577
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:32,960
Speaker 1: kind of You know, there's there's a whole there's a

578
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:36,160
Speaker 1: full spectrum. President, not that I'm belittling the act of

579
00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:39,160
Speaker 1: trying to take your life, but there is a spectrum,

580
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:41,080
Speaker 1: and we don't know where he falls in that. Yeah,

581
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:43,600
Speaker 1: some people are a little more hardcore about it, a

582
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:46,120
Speaker 1: little more de tremory to get the job done. Um,

583
00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:48,480
Speaker 1: but I don't know. Uh. And but that's for the

584
00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:52,240
Speaker 1: murders there. And the family does think that it was

585
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:56,000
Speaker 1: probably murder. There's no one really with any motive. Dave

586
00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:59,400
Speaker 1: was a nice guy, apparently had no enemies except, of course,

587
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:02,400
Speaker 1: as I mentioned previously, the Fornald plant did estimations with

588
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:06,560
Speaker 1: environmental quality, and so Dave's family has suggested that perhaps

589
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:09,920
Speaker 1: he was going to talk to somebody and perhaps suppressed

590
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:14,520
Speaker 1: about the situation and maybe be a whistleblower. And so

591
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:18,400
Speaker 1: they're thinking Dave was murdered to shut him up. And

592
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:21,000
Speaker 1: so so we have essentially three theories. I'm gonna throw

593
00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:23,400
Speaker 1: a fourth one in there too later on. But some

594
00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:27,160
Speaker 1: fun ones will not really fun. But you know that's

595
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:30,360
Speaker 1: a because we do it all the time, all right,

596
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:35,080
Speaker 1: it's more of it. But now, uh yeah, okay, what

597
00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:38,920
Speaker 1: our first theory is it was an accident. Dave fell

598
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:42,280
Speaker 1: into that furnace. I think personally this is kind of unlikely,

599
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 1: but you know, it is considered to be a possibility.

600
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:47,440
Speaker 1: Can I can I ask a question before we get

601
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:49,520
Speaker 1: too far into the theories. Yeah, okay, I'll pull my

602
00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 1: hand down. Um, all of our theories are saying that

603
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:58,479
Speaker 1: it's Dave's remains or whatever was pulls out of that

604
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:01,600
Speaker 1: furnace was day. Most of our theories are saying that,

605
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:04,160
Speaker 1: you know, okay, so what we're talking about until you

606
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:07,240
Speaker 1: say otherwise, is the remains or the things that were

607
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:11,440
Speaker 1: pulled out of the furnst were Dave. Ye, it wasna yeah,

608
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:15,280
Speaker 1: And so the keys were, theres were there, and part

609
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:17,800
Speaker 1: of the remains of his work boots were apparently there,

610
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:21,040
Speaker 1: and his glasses or somebody's. So as far as the

611
00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 1: accident one goes, Nobody, as far as I know, had

612
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:27,400
Speaker 1: actually fallen into one of these furnaces before. And I

613
00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:29,760
Speaker 1: tried to find on the web exactly what the make

614
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:31,720
Speaker 1: and model of the furnace was, and so I could

615
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:33,800
Speaker 1: see a picture of it or at least a drawing

616
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 1: diagram something had no luck. The most specific information I

617
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:40,760
Speaker 1: could find was in the court document that referred to

618
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:43,240
Speaker 1: it as a quote new sol vat that's n U

619
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:47,000
Speaker 1: s a l V unquote. And I looked for I

620
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:50,080
Speaker 1: searched on the web for that when got zip. So

621
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:53,640
Speaker 1: that's about it. Have you ever looked at the imagery

622
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:59,520
Speaker 1: from UH steel refineries. Yeah, so they tend to either

623
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:05,960
Speaker 1: be a long hot trough or they're more of drum

624
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:09,560
Speaker 1: is not the word, but it's a giant bucket of

625
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:13,480
Speaker 1: hot liquid so that it can then be moved and

626
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:17,880
Speaker 1: poured into a form. Those are the only two shapes

627
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:20,280
Speaker 1: that I've ever seen, I mean, and then again, I'm

628
00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:24,360
Speaker 1: ignoring whatever was on Unsolved Mysteries because it really looked

629
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:26,880
Speaker 1: like what they had was made out of storage containers.

630
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:29,960
Speaker 1: Whatever they had in that in that video sure looked

631
00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:32,760
Speaker 1: nothing like Yeah, but I did find a picture of

632
00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:35,280
Speaker 1: a top loading similar kind of furnace on the web,

633
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:38,400
Speaker 1: an old picture and an old manual. It looked nothing

634
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:40,320
Speaker 1: like what they had on their right. But was it

635
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:45,360
Speaker 1: like a big square hot pit of turn sometimes, but

636
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:47,760
Speaker 1: it had it had like a bunch of apparatus around

637
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:49,440
Speaker 1: the top because a lot of these were top loading

638
00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:54,600
Speaker 1: furnaces and for the unheeded material into the opening at

639
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:56,800
Speaker 1: the top. Yeah, but in this case they would put

640
00:33:57,040 --> 00:33:59,280
Speaker 1: they would put ingots in there, and they would pull

641
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:01,960
Speaker 1: ingots out. Nothing got poured really because they would pull

642
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:03,760
Speaker 1: them out and they hadn't melted, and they would they

643
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:05,720
Speaker 1: could just shape them. I think they stopped them enough

644
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:07,920
Speaker 1: that they were easier to shape. It would be more

645
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:11,360
Speaker 1: like the kind of ovens they used for like glass

646
00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:14,040
Speaker 1: blowing or stuff something like that. Maybe. Yeah, And so

647
00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:15,920
Speaker 1: as far as I know, they were top loading, but

648
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:17,520
Speaker 1: I don't know how to percent for sure they could

649
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:19,520
Speaker 1: have been. They could have been frontly. But one would

650
00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:24,000
Speaker 1: presume that there was some sort of guardrailer really to

651
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:27,399
Speaker 1: keep at least the people who are putting those things in. Yeah. Yeah,

652
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 1: I was thinking maybe a velvet rope. I think a

653
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:34,279
Speaker 1: velvet rope. You have had a velvet rope around it

654
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:38,239
Speaker 1: with a little sign that's safe. Yeah, it keeps to

655
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:40,560
Speaker 1: be safe at the movie theater. It keeps the tourists

656
00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:44,239
Speaker 1: out right. Yeah, yeah, wait, what are what are the

657
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:49,280
Speaker 1: little zippy ones they use at the airportnes because nobody

658
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:53,640
Speaker 1: gets through those which all those stanchions. Stanchions that works, yeah, Dave,

659
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:55,960
Speaker 1: But I think it was a pretty safety arty guy though,

660
00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:58,799
Speaker 1: and I'm sure they had something more serious than that

661
00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:02,000
Speaker 1: to keep people from wandering. You were stumbling in, yeah,

662
00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:04,040
Speaker 1: and let's face it, you know you don't need to

663
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:06,400
Speaker 1: have a lot of brains just to not be falling

664
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:12,719
Speaker 1: into a twelve green bolt and salt furnace. And you

665
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:15,279
Speaker 1: can tell you it's not like you could sort of

666
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:17,760
Speaker 1: accidentally back up and fall any of You gotta feel

667
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:20,480
Speaker 1: that heat, right, you're gonna be feeling it, And so

668
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:24,120
Speaker 1: I think even in Amiba would have been smart enough

669
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:26,880
Speaker 1: to not fall. So I grew up in an area

670
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:30,880
Speaker 1: in southern Oregon and there was I think it was

671
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:33,160
Speaker 1: I can't remember the name of the place, but they

672
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:36,560
Speaker 1: dealt with nickel, and so they were heating nickel and

673
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:39,960
Speaker 1: doing all of these things. And unless you were just

674
00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:43,239
Speaker 1: in the general vicinity, you were okay. But when you

675
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:46,000
Speaker 1: had to be around any of the burners or the

676
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:50,080
Speaker 1: have the super hot like these kind of thousand plus

677
00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:54,160
Speaker 1: degree areas, you were required to put on one of

678
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:58,239
Speaker 1: those nice fancy shiny metal reflective heats suits, I would

679
00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:01,080
Speaker 1: think so. So I can't imagine that they would just

680
00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:04,480
Speaker 1: let the maintenance guy just walk up and, you know,

681
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:07,319
Speaker 1: start messing around with something. You would have to be

682
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:12,120
Speaker 1: appropriately attired. But he also wasn't even supposed to be. No,

683
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:14,920
Speaker 1: he wasn't. Yeah, he was supposed to be in plant

684
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:17,439
Speaker 1: eight and then later on in plant four. But yeah,

685
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:19,640
Speaker 1: so what was either Maybe he was just wandering by

686
00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:21,800
Speaker 1: saw Dora jar. I thought, huh, I'll go check and

687
00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:24,399
Speaker 1: see what's going on there. Yeah, yeah, and anyone, and

688
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:26,719
Speaker 1: it seems wrong. I don't like this theory. Yeah, I

689
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:29,120
Speaker 1: find it kind of hard to believe that this was

690
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:31,880
Speaker 1: an accident. I really do, so I gotta get this

691
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:34,920
Speaker 1: one to fail. Agreed, You like that, Steve Well, I

692
00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:37,200
Speaker 1: don't know. You know, people take ups and salt baths

693
00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:38,960
Speaker 1: and they say it makes him feel better. He was like,

694
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:41,880
Speaker 1: it was a salt bath. I really think this is

695
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:44,160
Speaker 1: a terrible theory. And my feet feel crappy. I'm gonna

696
00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:49,400
Speaker 1: go sleep my feet in there. Well, okay, our next theory,

697
00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:54,799
Speaker 1: well they called me stumpy. Yeah, so our next serious suicide.

698
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:58,040
Speaker 1: I almost said both side, but no suicide. Apparently, As

699
00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:01,319
Speaker 1: I mentioned before, Dave had had some issues with the depression. Uh.

700
00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:04,120
Speaker 1: And of course, as we said, he attempted suicide not

701
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:07,040
Speaker 1: just a few years previously, during this divorce, and so

702
00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:10,359
Speaker 1: throwing yourself into a molten salt vat would definitely solve

703
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:12,279
Speaker 1: your problem if you wanted to kill yourself, I mean,

704
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:14,479
Speaker 1: be a pretty horrible way to go though. That would

705
00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:16,960
Speaker 1: be pretty awful. I mean, we all saw a terminator.

706
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:19,279
Speaker 1: We saw how long it took Arnold. Yeah, but he

707
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:21,399
Speaker 1: was a terminator. I think a human being it would

708
00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:25,320
Speaker 1: be like a little quicker, hopefully, but it was still

709
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:27,880
Speaker 1: not fun for the little bit of time that It's

710
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:30,680
Speaker 1: a good lord, I couldn't imagine, not that there's a

711
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:32,759
Speaker 1: way to kill yourself, but that is not a good

712
00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:35,080
Speaker 1: way to kill yourself. Now, well, you never know. It

713
00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:37,719
Speaker 1: might be super quick. It might be that your nervatings

714
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:40,040
Speaker 1: are shocked and they just stopped working, and that you're

715
00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:43,160
Speaker 1: going to go into shock right away. Uh hope, if

716
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:45,880
Speaker 1: it were not, we could look a day's computer and

717
00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:48,000
Speaker 1: see if he did web searches on topics like quote,

718
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:50,000
Speaker 1: how long did it takes to die? If you throw

719
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:53,359
Speaker 1: yourself That would definitely sound a question that would help

720
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:55,800
Speaker 1: a lot, but we can't do that. No web search

721
00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:58,799
Speaker 1: is available, and I don't know there's no record that

722
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:01,000
Speaker 1: he asked anybody says if you fell into that, how

723
00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:02,799
Speaker 1: long do you think it to take it to die?

724
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:06,120
Speaker 1: But I would think it would be able to really quickly.

725
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:09,680
Speaker 1: But I still would rather just shoot myself personally. I

726
00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:12,200
Speaker 1: think a whole bunch of other ways about On the

727
00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:15,440
Speaker 1: other hand, I've seen cases where people have picked even

728
00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:17,799
Speaker 1: more hideous ways to kill themselves in this I mean,

729
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:20,920
Speaker 1: people like soaked themselves in gasoline and light themselves on fire.

730
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:23,360
Speaker 1: And here's that guy who you know has tied the

731
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:26,040
Speaker 1: rope around his neck and then accelerated the car that

732
00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:29,160
Speaker 1: was the corpett definitely killed themselves that way, that will

733
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:33,440
Speaker 1: do it. But yeah that was Britain. Yeah, yeah, So

734
00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:35,759
Speaker 1: there's there's worse ways, I guess, but it just it

735
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:38,319
Speaker 1: doesn't sound quite right to me. Uh. And on the

736
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:41,440
Speaker 1: other side of things, people have noticed that Dave had

737
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:43,839
Speaker 1: just bought a new lunch box, So I mean, you know,

738
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:46,799
Speaker 1: if you're gonna kill your stability, what isn't I know

739
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:49,960
Speaker 1: exactly you know, I mean obviously you know he was

740
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:52,640
Speaker 1: planning for the future if he bought a new lunch box, right,

741
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:55,399
Speaker 1: we didn't. We did actually get this feedback a little

742
00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:57,759
Speaker 1: bit when we did the more Gate Tube crash though,

743
00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:01,040
Speaker 1: because we talked about evidence of him having you know,

744
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:04,560
Speaker 1: cash for a new car in his pocket. Yeah, And

745
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:06,680
Speaker 1: there were a lot of people who kind of came

746
00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:10,360
Speaker 1: out and said, you know, you know, in their understanding

747
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:13,840
Speaker 1: of people who commit suicide, oftentimes it's not like you

748
00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:15,759
Speaker 1: wake up and say, yep, today's the day I'm going

749
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:20,839
Speaker 1: to kill myself. I mean, for you just are like, oh, yeah,

750
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:23,480
Speaker 1: that here we go. Maybe he's sort of been toying

751
00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:25,000
Speaker 1: with the idea for a while and it's one day

752
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:27,200
Speaker 1: for one reason or another, everything just kind of jelos,

753
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:30,760
Speaker 1: you say, okay, now is the time. Maybe yeah, maybe

754
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:33,000
Speaker 1: something bad had happened with his supervisor and he thought

755
00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:34,799
Speaker 1: he was a us his job and thought ball just

756
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:38,040
Speaker 1: jump into that pool instead of it could be there

757
00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:40,920
Speaker 1: were you know, just by providence of planning for the

758
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:46,000
Speaker 1: future doesn't necessarily mean that he wasn't planning on committing suicide. Yeah,

759
00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:48,080
Speaker 1: that's good, But I also agree I don't think that

760
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:51,520
Speaker 1: he did. But hey, yeah, well, I mean who knows. Uh, Yeah,

761
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:53,359
Speaker 1: there were some other stuff. His daughter, of course, said

762
00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:55,799
Speaker 1: they were planning of vacations. At some point he paid

763
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:59,200
Speaker 1: all the bills and bottled the groceries and stuff, and

764
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:01,799
Speaker 1: uh yeah again he said, it doesn't really mean much.

765
00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:04,640
Speaker 1: I mean, if you could look at somebody's buying groceries

766
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:06,399
Speaker 1: for the family and paying all the bills is sort

767
00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:08,640
Speaker 1: of cleaning up all the bluesse ends. Yeah, you know,

768
00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:12,239
Speaker 1: before he kills himself. Yeah, planning a vacation doesn't really

769
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:13,960
Speaker 1: mean much. I mean, it's that could. I don't know

770
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:15,839
Speaker 1: if that means serious planning or if you just sort

771
00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:18,960
Speaker 1: of vaguely talking about going to Disneyland or something. You know,

772
00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:21,239
Speaker 1: it's just we all talk about stuff like that. I mean,

773
00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:24,600
Speaker 1: sometime in the future conversation how we've been planning on

774
00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:27,520
Speaker 1: a European trip to solve mysteries in Europe for how long? Now?

775
00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:31,319
Speaker 1: Four years? Yeah? Exactly? Yeah? Still yeah, no closer to

776
00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:36,000
Speaker 1: actually no, not likely. It might happen. Who knows, because

777
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:37,760
Speaker 1: you're gonna try and kill me. So if somebody steps

778
00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:41,640
Speaker 1: up and pace it, okay, pace for it. Yeah, there

779
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:43,680
Speaker 1: would be one reason to do it I can think of.

780
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:45,200
Speaker 1: You know, I would rather again go out in the

781
00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:47,200
Speaker 1: woods with a shotgun and take care of business. But

782
00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:49,799
Speaker 1: on the other hand, there would be opportunities at the

783
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:54,239
Speaker 1: plant at fernald Uh, lots of opportunities. And plus, if

784
00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:57,200
Speaker 1: David made it look like an accident, then he would

785
00:40:57,239 --> 00:40:59,400
Speaker 1: leave his family a really nice opening for a lawsuit,

786
00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:03,280
Speaker 1: so and and workers comp and all kinds of stuff.

787
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:05,840
Speaker 1: But at the same time, Dave doesn't seem to have

788
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:07,360
Speaker 1: gone out of his way to make it look like

789
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:11,640
Speaker 1: an accident. You know why, I know we've said this.

790
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:16,400
Speaker 1: Why going to that furnace? That place was known to

791
00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:21,960
Speaker 1: be full of very corrosive acids, to the point that

792
00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:26,040
Speaker 1: they had a m what is I suddenly cannot think

793
00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:28,880
Speaker 1: of the name of the guy who replaces souls on shoes,

794
00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:34,800
Speaker 1: Thank you. They had somebody on site who fixed shoes

795
00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:38,040
Speaker 1: for the employees because there was so much acid on

796
00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:41,719
Speaker 1: the ground it ate through their work boots at an

797
00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:45,840
Speaker 1: obscene rate. So they did this for people like Okay,

798
00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:48,800
Speaker 1: why why did he do that versus going and finding

799
00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:52,640
Speaker 1: one of the giant vats of acid jumping into that thing.

800
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:56,440
Speaker 1: In fairness, though, if you jumped into a vat of

801
00:41:56,520 --> 00:42:00,560
Speaker 1: corrosive acid, it's unlikely that any part of you be found,

802
00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:05,000
Speaker 1: right versus if he knew the science of this thing,

803
00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:07,480
Speaker 1: although more of his bones should have been found if

804
00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:10,160
Speaker 1: it was his entire skeleton. Well, here's the deal though,

805
00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:13,359
Speaker 1: that I'm I'm assuming I'm going on a living here.

806
00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:16,080
Speaker 1: I don't know the exact compound that they use as salt,

807
00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:20,200
Speaker 1: but as we all know, salts at room temperature is solid,

808
00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:22,600
Speaker 1: and it might well be by the time they cooled

809
00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:24,200
Speaker 1: it down enough to where they could actually get into

810
00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:27,200
Speaker 1: his search, it might have solidified. So maybe they had

811
00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:31,200
Speaker 1: to sort of chip through everything and they without or

812
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:35,000
Speaker 1: didn't break things up enough to find the smaller fragments. Maybe, yeah,

813
00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:36,839
Speaker 1: they might not have considered it worthwhile, I will say

814
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:38,799
Speaker 1: had some bones that that might have been enough. They

815
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:40,360
Speaker 1: didn't feel like they needed to like chip through the

816
00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:42,759
Speaker 1: entire thing and try to extract every single bone, which

817
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:44,640
Speaker 1: by the way, they weren't going to do without breaking

818
00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:46,480
Speaker 1: them all up anyway, because by the time they've been

819
00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:49,480
Speaker 1: heated that much, they're gonta be pretty fragile. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so,

820
00:42:49,680 --> 00:42:51,600
Speaker 1: I but I guess to your point of, you know,

821
00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:54,080
Speaker 1: finding the super corrosive acid, like if you want it

822
00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:56,879
Speaker 1: to look like an accident, you still have to leave

823
00:42:57,000 --> 00:43:00,719
Speaker 1: some evident the accident. Yeah, but you still think he

824
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:02,840
Speaker 1: would have, like, you know, put like a say, a

825
00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:05,319
Speaker 1: banana appeal on the top of the thing or something. Yeah,

826
00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:09,640
Speaker 1: something to make it look But in in looking forward

827
00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:13,440
Speaker 1: at the next theory, if what we're going to talk

828
00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:16,640
Speaker 1: about after we finished this up was what happened, then

829
00:43:16,719 --> 00:43:18,799
Speaker 1: why did they throw him in something that would leave

830
00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:22,120
Speaker 1: materials rather than throwing him in something that would completely destroying.

831
00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:25,400
Speaker 1: We'll talk about that theory, but I just want to

832
00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:27,640
Speaker 1: bring that up now so that we don't forget to

833
00:43:27,719 --> 00:43:32,360
Speaker 1: talk about it. Yeah, yeah, and yeah, I don't know.

834
00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:35,759
Speaker 1: But back to the suicide thing. If it was gonna

835
00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:38,000
Speaker 1: make it look like suicide versus an accident, well you

836
00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:39,520
Speaker 1: think he would have taken off his hard hat and

837
00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:42,560
Speaker 1: his glasses at least what Yeah, or maybe not. But

838
00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:47,279
Speaker 1: you know, if you're going to commit suicide, you don't

839
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:50,200
Speaker 1: give a rip. I don't care that I'm wearing all

840
00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:54,120
Speaker 1: my work gear. I'm just gonna take and if it's

841
00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:56,960
Speaker 1: going to be an accident, if you're gonna stage an accident,

842
00:43:57,440 --> 00:44:01,200
Speaker 1: no investigator says, oh weird, he took off his gloves

843
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:04,080
Speaker 1: and his hat and his glasses and then stumbled in

844
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:07,480
Speaker 1: like that. That that series of events wouldn't make sense

845
00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:10,320
Speaker 1: to me. Yeah, it would make more sense that he

846
00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:12,920
Speaker 1: had an accident and fell in with all of his gears.

847
00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:14,759
Speaker 1: But he should have done something. He should have left

848
00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:16,960
Speaker 1: like a rope or a piece of cable right there

849
00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:19,600
Speaker 1: for him to trip over something or that that that

850
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:22,480
Speaker 1: this cardboards, the sign you see swinging on the end

851
00:44:22,520 --> 00:44:24,480
Speaker 1: of the rope, and the looning tunes, the cartoons, you

852
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:27,400
Speaker 1: should have just done pitched the velvet rope so it

853
00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:31,160
Speaker 1: looked like, you know, for a little bit, so it

854
00:44:31,239 --> 00:44:34,800
Speaker 1: looks like somebody had stumbled over it. Yeah, yeah, So

855
00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:39,000
Speaker 1: I don't know about this one. About yeah, this wide

856
00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:41,759
Speaker 1: it's more plausible than an accident, but less plausible than

857
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:45,080
Speaker 1: some others to me. Yeah it is, uh yeah, I

858
00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:49,000
Speaker 1: mean it's it just seems like it's entirely I mean,

859
00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:52,200
Speaker 1: it's entirely plausible to me. But again, there's not really

860
00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:55,560
Speaker 1: any evidence for it. But then again, okay, let's look

861
00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:57,799
Speaker 1: at get that one and maybe move onto our next theory,

862
00:44:57,840 --> 00:45:03,520
Speaker 1: which of course is murder. Dut murder, everybody's favorite. So again,

863
00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:07,239
Speaker 1: assuming that that was Dave's remains that were found in there,

864
00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:10,759
Speaker 1: not that that much was found. The prevalence theory out there,

865
00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:12,440
Speaker 1: of course, is that Dave was murdered by his co

866
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:16,200
Speaker 1: workers or somebody at the company because he was a whistleblower.

867
00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:21,839
Speaker 1: What was he blowing whistleton on either National Lead going

868
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:25,560
Speaker 1: to the plant itself, I mean, because again National Lead

869
00:45:25,640 --> 00:45:27,480
Speaker 1: was running it, but they didn't actually own it, So

870
00:45:27,600 --> 00:45:30,960
Speaker 1: maybe he was writing out National Lead to the government

871
00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:34,200
Speaker 1: or writing out Joe. Can you for people who aren't

872
00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:37,600
Speaker 1: familiar with the term whistleblower, can you explain that for folks?

873
00:45:37,719 --> 00:45:40,960
Speaker 1: Is not everybody knows that somebody who sees wrongdoing at

874
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:44,560
Speaker 1: your company or within the government or whatever and reports

875
00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:47,160
Speaker 1: it to the authorities or or maybe reports it to

876
00:45:47,239 --> 00:45:50,479
Speaker 1: the press. That kind of thing. They're called whistleblowers. Also,

877
00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:53,040
Speaker 1: you know, one man's whistle whistleblower of course is one man,

878
00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:56,440
Speaker 1: and there's another man's just playing leaker. It just all

879
00:45:56,480 --> 00:45:59,920
Speaker 1: depends a lot of people. People leak constant, Yeah, I

880
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:01,800
Speaker 1: kind of thing when you when you leak, you know

881
00:46:01,840 --> 00:46:04,280
Speaker 1: a lot of people leak for their own personal reasons.

882
00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:06,600
Speaker 1: And then sometimes people will leak and then when they

883
00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:09,680
Speaker 1: get busted, they'll try to call themselves a whistleblower like that.

884
00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:12,279
Speaker 1: Check at the n S A who recently gave some

885
00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:14,680
Speaker 1: documents to the press and then she got busted for

886
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:17,279
Speaker 1: it and uh, and then she tried to claim, Oh, no,

887
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:21,120
Speaker 1: I was a whistleblower. No, really not isn't is it,

888
00:46:21,239 --> 00:46:24,800
Speaker 1: Karen Silkwood. Isn't she considered I mean, her death is serious,

889
00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:26,800
Speaker 1: and that's a whole another thing, and that's why the

890
00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:29,000
Speaker 1: murder thing made me think of it. But isn't she

891
00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:32,360
Speaker 1: considered a bit of a whistleblower? Yeah? I don't you

892
00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:36,200
Speaker 1: know she was in a nuclear reactive facility of nuclear facility.

893
00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:38,560
Speaker 1: I don't I don't remember. It's been so long since

894
00:46:38,640 --> 00:46:41,120
Speaker 1: I read anything about that or some people anything. I

895
00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:44,279
Speaker 1: can't remember if she actually ever actually did and the

896
00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:47,719
Speaker 1: actually whistle blowing, or if she just died and she

897
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:51,480
Speaker 1: was supposed to she was supposed to give statements. I

898
00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:53,640
Speaker 1: remember them, but I can remember she would be considered

899
00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:57,960
Speaker 1: a whistle I think I think we're probably beating that

900
00:46:58,040 --> 00:46:59,759
Speaker 1: one to death. Yeah, let's let's go back to the

901
00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:04,480
Speaker 1: but but anyway, that was, that was That is one

902
00:47:04,480 --> 00:47:07,319
Speaker 1: of the reigning theories out there. But the only problem

903
00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:09,320
Speaker 1: I have with the whistleblower theories that the cat was

904
00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:12,359
Speaker 1: really out of the bag by four when Dave died.

905
00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:16,320
Speaker 1: National That had actually been telling the Automic Energy Commission,

906
00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:18,480
Speaker 1: and then after that the Energy Department since at least

907
00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:24,200
Speaker 1: about miscellaneous contamination problems that they were having. In fact,

908
00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:26,799
Speaker 1: they kept going to the government and saying, hey, guys,

909
00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:30,600
Speaker 1: this is not a good situation. Like, for example, there

910
00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:34,960
Speaker 1: were some massive concrete tanks for radioactive waste. One of

911
00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:37,520
Speaker 1: them they discovered had some big cracks in it and

912
00:47:37,719 --> 00:47:40,719
Speaker 1: it was leading leaking radioactive waste into the ground the

913
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:45,759
Speaker 1: contaminating groundwater. And National League goes to again the government says, hey,

914
00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:48,239
Speaker 1: we've got a problem here. Your tanks are leaking. The

915
00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:51,000
Speaker 1: government says, okay, well, the cracks only go down so far,

916
00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:52,879
Speaker 1: not all the way to the bottom, so don't fill

917
00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:55,320
Speaker 1: the tank up any further than the height of the cracks,

918
00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:58,200
Speaker 1: and that takes care of the problem. So that was

919
00:47:58,239 --> 00:48:01,560
Speaker 1: an example of that. Yeah, yeah, that's just one example

920
00:48:01,640 --> 00:48:06,879
Speaker 1: of that. National Yeah. Essentially, National Lad they did their job,

921
00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:11,640
Speaker 1: they did. Yeah, and so h as far as somebody

922
00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:14,960
Speaker 1: from National Lad murdering Dave, there's no excuse there that

923
00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:18,880
Speaker 1: National lad was they were. It was well documented that

924
00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:22,360
Speaker 1: they had done everything they could keep the government abreast

925
00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:24,480
Speaker 1: and everything. The government just said, hey, we don't care,

926
00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:27,960
Speaker 1: and so there was really no liability on their part.

927
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:32,319
Speaker 1: I I questioned that. I do question that that isn't

928
00:48:32,440 --> 00:48:36,320
Speaker 1: blaming the boss national national lead. Is that who it was?

929
00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:39,760
Speaker 1: National led of Ohio. I kind of feel like maybe

930
00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:44,120
Speaker 1: they could have taken steps to fix things, but not

931
00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:47,880
Speaker 1: wanting to foot the bill, just kept turning to the U.

932
00:48:48,040 --> 00:48:50,759
Speaker 1: S G And saying, hey, guys, that was the thing.

933
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:53,840
Speaker 1: Though essentially, you know, the government paid them a you know,

934
00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:55,719
Speaker 1: a certain amount of money to do this and there

935
00:48:55,840 --> 00:48:59,080
Speaker 1: and and this was above and beyond really probably what

936
00:48:59,160 --> 00:49:01,399
Speaker 1: they felt that was in their job description. They just said, dude,

937
00:49:01,480 --> 00:49:05,080
Speaker 1: just needs to be fixed or give us money. Would

938
00:49:05,080 --> 00:49:08,399
Speaker 1: they have even had the authority to fix it, I'm

939
00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:10,800
Speaker 1: sure if they I'm sure if they had actually said, hey, government,

940
00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:12,759
Speaker 1: we're going to fix those cracks in that tank and

941
00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:15,440
Speaker 1: on our own dime, the government would said okay, Or

942
00:49:15,719 --> 00:49:17,640
Speaker 1: the government would have formed a Blue Ribbon commission and

943
00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:20,880
Speaker 1: studied it for ten years and then you know, so

944
00:49:21,200 --> 00:49:23,160
Speaker 1: there's the whole thing about the fact that they were

945
00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:27,279
Speaker 1: leaking uranium dust into the atmosphere of the areas. So

946
00:49:27,640 --> 00:49:30,640
Speaker 1: the you were talking about this before is they had

947
00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:35,320
Speaker 1: big bags on their ventilation system to capture all of

948
00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:39,760
Speaker 1: that material. It's kind of like in your home ventilation

949
00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:43,960
Speaker 1: system we have those funny paper cardboardy things that stopped

950
00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:46,640
Speaker 1: the crud from going in. It's a massive version of that.

951
00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:51,880
Speaker 1: Those things failed once a month, like they were supposed

952
00:49:51,880 --> 00:49:54,240
Speaker 1: to last months and months and months, and they always

953
00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:58,920
Speaker 1: failed every month. If you're doing this for ten, for

954
00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:01,680
Speaker 1: ten twenty years, don't you think that at some point

955
00:50:01,760 --> 00:50:05,960
Speaker 1: somebody would say, um, we should find a new bag. Yeah,

956
00:50:06,160 --> 00:50:09,759
Speaker 1: like really, this this vacuum cleaner bag sucks, which the

957
00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:12,320
Speaker 1: whole system sucked. But then yeah, I I and I

958
00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:14,880
Speaker 1: don't know. Again, that was reported by the way to

959
00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:17,840
Speaker 1: to the government. The government just saiday, you know, but

960
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:21,120
Speaker 1: I think that whistleblower allegation. Just to get back to

961
00:50:21,160 --> 00:50:24,520
Speaker 1: what we're talking about, Okay, they were reporting that to

962
00:50:24,960 --> 00:50:30,040
Speaker 1: the government and the Department of Energy. It didn't really

963
00:50:30,320 --> 00:50:34,879
Speaker 1: come out to the public until eighty four, and that's when,

964
00:50:35,239 --> 00:50:37,440
Speaker 1: as you put it, the cat really came out of

965
00:50:37,480 --> 00:50:40,000
Speaker 1: the bag. Well, the thing about it is is, uh, yeah, well,

966
00:50:40,040 --> 00:50:42,200
Speaker 1: that's when the public first became aware of it, but

967
00:50:42,440 --> 00:50:44,400
Speaker 1: there were actually there were there were things that happened

968
00:50:44,480 --> 00:50:48,319
Speaker 1: for that as as early as like nineteen six one.

969
00:50:48,440 --> 00:50:51,040
Speaker 1: There was a University of Cincinnati study they found groundwater

970
00:50:51,080 --> 00:50:54,040
Speaker 1: contamination around the plan uh and then later on a

971
00:50:54,120 --> 00:50:58,600
Speaker 1: year later, the United States Geologic Survey confirmed this. And

972
00:50:58,760 --> 00:51:01,680
Speaker 1: so it's not like it was carefully hidden within the

973
00:51:01,760 --> 00:51:04,760
Speaker 1: bounds of just National Lead and the Department of Energy.

974
00:51:05,239 --> 00:51:10,160
Speaker 1: It's also the six season seventies information transfer. It's a

975
00:51:10,360 --> 00:51:13,800
Speaker 1: very slow process unlike today. I mean, remember we're spoiled.

976
00:51:14,360 --> 00:51:17,719
Speaker 1: Something happens and we could technically all know about it

977
00:51:17,880 --> 00:51:20,919
Speaker 1: the very same if not next day. Well yeah, of course,

978
00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:23,440
Speaker 1: this is early sixties. The environment was not as hot

979
00:51:23,560 --> 00:51:27,520
Speaker 1: button an issue then. But then twenty years later, UM one,

980
00:51:28,080 --> 00:51:31,920
Speaker 1: the Ohio e p A that's Environmental Protection Agency, they

981
00:51:31,960 --> 00:51:35,239
Speaker 1: found radio active contamination in the wells around Fernald. That

982
00:51:35,360 --> 00:51:40,560
Speaker 1: was one, and they also inspected Fernald and the plant

983
00:51:40,560 --> 00:51:43,840
Speaker 1: itself in March eighty four found lots of violations of

984
00:51:43,880 --> 00:51:46,520
Speaker 1: hazar this waste laws again, and that was March eighty four,

985
00:51:46,680 --> 00:51:49,520
Speaker 1: that was months before Dave disappeared. So we're really what

986
00:51:49,640 --> 00:51:52,000
Speaker 1: we're saying is that there was no need for a whistleblower.

987
00:51:53,120 --> 00:51:56,800
Speaker 1: The whistle it was blown. Yeah, so it was blown

988
00:51:56,880 --> 00:52:01,319
Speaker 1: up anymore, there was no whistle to blow, not really. Yeah,

989
00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:03,759
Speaker 1: and so that's why I had the whistleblower theory for me.

990
00:52:03,800 --> 00:52:06,480
Speaker 1: It kind of falls flat. Um, Yeah, I mean, also,

991
00:52:07,080 --> 00:52:09,200
Speaker 1: who would he have been talking to. Obviously the whistle

992
00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:11,160
Speaker 1: was blown as far as the government knowing about it,

993
00:52:11,239 --> 00:52:13,320
Speaker 1: so he would have been talking to somebody with the

994
00:52:13,400 --> 00:52:16,120
Speaker 1: press right to out the government, which was not, which

995
00:52:16,239 --> 00:52:20,960
Speaker 1: was obviously not making it really well known. Yeah. So

996
00:52:21,080 --> 00:52:22,560
Speaker 1: if he was talking to a reporter, what do you

997
00:52:22,600 --> 00:52:24,840
Speaker 1: think the reporter would have would have come whoever it was,

998
00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:27,640
Speaker 1: would have come forward and confirmed this and nobody has

999
00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:29,920
Speaker 1: of course. Or maybe on the other hand, maybe he

1000
00:52:29,960 --> 00:52:32,759
Speaker 1: went to the FEDS and just said, hey, there's all

1001
00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:35,560
Speaker 1: this stuff going on, not realizing National Let had already

1002
00:52:35,600 --> 00:52:37,960
Speaker 1: been keeping them all apprized of all these issues anyway,

1003
00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:40,719
Speaker 1: So he contacts the Department of Energy. He says, hey,

1004
00:52:40,760 --> 00:52:42,919
Speaker 1: you guys have to know about what National Letters doing

1005
00:52:43,040 --> 00:52:46,120
Speaker 1: that plan, Man, it's just crazy responsible And the guy

1006
00:52:46,200 --> 00:52:48,279
Speaker 1: at the government says, yeah, let me get your name

1007
00:52:48,320 --> 00:52:50,600
Speaker 1: and address and everything and then he calls the hit squad,

1008
00:52:51,400 --> 00:52:53,960
Speaker 1: the federal the federal hit squad and knocks him off.

1009
00:52:55,400 --> 00:52:57,520
Speaker 1: But again, why would you do that when it's already

1010
00:52:57,719 --> 00:53:00,400
Speaker 1: the case that you know, it's come out in public anywhere.

1011
00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:03,000
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know. I don't really have a

1012
00:53:03,040 --> 00:53:06,439
Speaker 1: good sense of Dave's personality. I don't have the sense

1013
00:53:06,520 --> 00:53:09,120
Speaker 1: that he's this type of guy. But what if Dave

1014
00:53:09,320 --> 00:53:14,120
Speaker 1: was talking with other people about wanting to either like

1015
00:53:14,719 --> 00:53:18,480
Speaker 1: unionize or bring a class action lawsuit against I mean,

1016
00:53:18,719 --> 00:53:22,600
Speaker 1: who knows what kind of sickness and contamination the workers

1017
00:53:23,239 --> 00:53:27,640
Speaker 1: were suffering from. So had he been kind of talking about, hey,

1018
00:53:28,000 --> 00:53:31,360
Speaker 1: you know, my doctor says I'm inhaling a lot of

1019
00:53:31,480 --> 00:53:34,520
Speaker 1: uranium and that's super unhealthy for me and I'm at

1020
00:53:34,640 --> 00:53:37,080
Speaker 1: high risk and we should probably try to get a

1021
00:53:37,120 --> 00:53:40,240
Speaker 1: settlement from the government and talk to the wrong person.

1022
00:53:40,840 --> 00:53:42,640
Speaker 1: I mean that, you know, if he was the kind

1023
00:53:42,680 --> 00:53:46,440
Speaker 1: of main person championing that. But again I don't he

1024
00:53:46,560 --> 00:53:48,960
Speaker 1: doesn't seem like that. I didn't seem like a troublemaker.

1025
00:53:49,040 --> 00:53:51,399
Speaker 1: But I don't think he did that because again, Harry

1026
00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:55,439
Speaker 1: Easterling his carpool but didn't say Dave ever said anything

1027
00:53:55,480 --> 00:53:58,800
Speaker 1: about that to him, But Harry, I would stay quiet too, Harry,

1028
00:54:01,120 --> 00:54:04,200
Speaker 1: I don't know anything about also made a point of

1029
00:54:04,440 --> 00:54:07,880
Speaker 1: saying that Dave seemed to know his stuff about what

1030
00:54:08,120 --> 00:54:11,000
Speaker 1: was going on in the in the plants. Yeah, he

1031
00:54:11,160 --> 00:54:13,040
Speaker 1: kept an eye on that stuff. Yeah. And it was

1032
00:54:13,080 --> 00:54:15,440
Speaker 1: funny is that when you read it, you'll say, well,

1033
00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:17,279
Speaker 1: Dave knew. He would say, oh, if you're working around

1034
00:54:17,320 --> 00:54:19,600
Speaker 1: this thing, stay away from its higher radiation, if you're

1035
00:54:19,640 --> 00:54:22,600
Speaker 1: this this thing, well, but he maintained the stuff, so

1036
00:54:22,760 --> 00:54:24,600
Speaker 1: he like if it was something to say, was one

1037
00:54:24,640 --> 00:54:28,960
Speaker 1: of those uranium dust bags, Yeah, he totally knew because

1038
00:54:29,040 --> 00:54:32,680
Speaker 1: those things were always full, because because they were always breaking.

1039
00:54:32,920 --> 00:54:37,320
Speaker 1: Like he would have had just general observational knowledge. He

1040
00:54:37,360 --> 00:54:40,520
Speaker 1: could have been someone like me who, um is a

1041
00:54:40,719 --> 00:54:44,240
Speaker 1: little bit of a warrior and likes to don't worry

1042
00:54:44,320 --> 00:54:47,560
Speaker 1: about anything. You're right, but I mean, you know, somebody

1043
00:54:47,600 --> 00:54:51,279
Speaker 1: who likes to be a little more safety conscious and

1044
00:54:51,360 --> 00:54:54,239
Speaker 1: aware of their surroundings, whereas other people, you know, you

1045
00:54:54,320 --> 00:54:56,400
Speaker 1: guys are good examples of this, are a little more

1046
00:54:56,440 --> 00:54:57,960
Speaker 1: prone to be like, let's just go do this thing

1047
00:54:58,040 --> 00:54:59,640
Speaker 1: and see how it works out. And I'm like, no, no,

1048
00:55:00,360 --> 00:55:03,720
Speaker 1: there's a radiom in those pipes, and you guys are like, oh, okay, okay,

1049
00:55:03,840 --> 00:55:06,800
Speaker 1: we'll put the black Cat fireworks in there. You know,

1050
00:55:07,239 --> 00:55:11,719
Speaker 1: I guess radiation it's fine. I mean, I think there

1051
00:55:11,760 --> 00:55:13,359
Speaker 1: are just people like that in the world who are

1052
00:55:13,360 --> 00:55:17,239
Speaker 1: a little more aware. And uh yeah, we said he

1053
00:55:17,360 --> 00:55:20,120
Speaker 1: was safety minded, so he might have you know, he

1054
00:55:20,200 --> 00:55:22,760
Speaker 1: probably went out to look out for his his fellow worker.

1055
00:55:22,880 --> 00:55:26,000
Speaker 1: But again I don't think that necessarily he was actually

1056
00:55:26,200 --> 00:55:29,520
Speaker 1: championed some sort of Nah, there's no nobody's reported that

1057
00:55:29,960 --> 00:55:31,840
Speaker 1: there was a good reason for him to have been murdered.

1058
00:55:31,920 --> 00:55:35,120
Speaker 1: Well somebody, Yeah, now, not really. And also if they

1059
00:55:35,239 --> 00:55:37,399
Speaker 1: if they had murdered him, it seems kind of self

1060
00:55:37,440 --> 00:55:41,040
Speaker 1: depeting to push him into a furnace at the plant. Yeah. Well,

1061
00:55:41,080 --> 00:55:44,520
Speaker 1: and there's scrutiny. Well the problem, of course, I mean

1062
00:55:44,640 --> 00:55:47,799
Speaker 1: this is this story is a bit sensationalized because we've

1063
00:55:47,800 --> 00:55:50,520
Speaker 1: got unsolved mysteries in the mix, which seems to have

1064
00:55:50,640 --> 00:55:53,879
Speaker 1: inserted some details. But you've been looking at the court

1065
00:55:53,960 --> 00:55:58,080
Speaker 1: documents and not all of that stuff is there. Yeah. Well,

1066
00:55:58,160 --> 00:56:00,200
Speaker 1: that's that's it. I mean, if you look get the

1067
00:56:00,280 --> 00:56:03,399
Speaker 1: unsolved mysteries, they know that piece of stainless steel wire

1068
00:56:03,480 --> 00:56:06,400
Speaker 1: that was looped in three circles. In their video, they

1069
00:56:06,440 --> 00:56:08,920
Speaker 1: implied that the wire had been looped around his ankles

1070
00:56:09,320 --> 00:56:11,680
Speaker 1: and used a lowering men. Yeah, the third loop was

1071
00:56:11,800 --> 00:56:14,120
Speaker 1: used for a hook on the highest and so they

1072
00:56:14,160 --> 00:56:15,920
Speaker 1: could raise his body up and then drop it into

1073
00:56:15,960 --> 00:56:20,000
Speaker 1: the furnace. Um. But the problem is is no press

1074
00:56:20,040 --> 00:56:23,239
Speaker 1: councer court documents mentioned the stainless steel wire. It's only

1075
00:56:23,400 --> 00:56:29,000
Speaker 1: in the unsolved mysteries. Yeah. So from the Cincinnati inquirers

1076
00:56:29,000 --> 00:56:30,880
Speaker 1: able to find out the following things were found in

1077
00:56:30,960 --> 00:56:34,600
Speaker 1: the furnace. The keys to the keys, to box, towel box,

1078
00:56:35,000 --> 00:56:37,680
Speaker 1: metal islets and toe plates from a pair of boots,

1079
00:56:38,160 --> 00:56:41,200
Speaker 1: other metal bits, and a few toe toe fragmes. They

1080
00:56:41,239 --> 00:56:43,440
Speaker 1: weren't melted, but they found them that the boots. The

1081
00:56:43,480 --> 00:56:47,759
Speaker 1: boots were gone, the metal was still there. Yeah, metal

1082
00:56:47,800 --> 00:56:50,560
Speaker 1: bits and bone fragments. There's nothing in there about loops

1083
00:56:50,600 --> 00:56:53,360
Speaker 1: of steel wire. And then there's the keys. If the

1084
00:56:53,440 --> 00:56:56,280
Speaker 1: keys were found in Day's toolbox but also in the furnace,

1085
00:56:57,080 --> 00:56:59,319
Speaker 1: this could mean somebody took the keys and planted them

1086
00:56:59,400 --> 00:57:01,680
Speaker 1: in the furnace us. But on the other hand, it

1087
00:57:01,680 --> 00:57:03,359
Speaker 1: could also mean that Da've just had more than one

1088
00:57:03,360 --> 00:57:05,279
Speaker 1: set of keys you could have had work keys and

1089
00:57:05,400 --> 00:57:09,360
Speaker 1: home keys, which would again make give more credence to

1090
00:57:09,440 --> 00:57:12,520
Speaker 1: the fact that he was totally comfortable just leaving his

1091
00:57:12,840 --> 00:57:16,240
Speaker 1: you know, three work keys around instead of saying, yeah,

1092
00:57:16,320 --> 00:57:18,880
Speaker 1: he left his house key and his you know, storage

1093
00:57:18,960 --> 00:57:21,280
Speaker 1: unit key, and his car key, he just like left

1094
00:57:21,360 --> 00:57:24,440
Speaker 1: sitting in that room. He had his personal keys with him,

1095
00:57:24,480 --> 00:57:26,840
Speaker 1: so it doesn't really matter as much if they got stolen. Yeah,

1096
00:57:26,880 --> 00:57:28,520
Speaker 1: I wouldn't. He would not be the first person that

1097
00:57:28,640 --> 00:57:32,120
Speaker 1: had more than one set of keys. Yeah. I have

1098
00:57:32,200 --> 00:57:34,520
Speaker 1: a hard time understanding why anybody would drop the keys

1099
00:57:34,560 --> 00:57:36,840
Speaker 1: if they murdered him, whether they would go back and

1100
00:57:36,920 --> 00:57:40,440
Speaker 1: drop the keys in the furnace after, because it's it's

1101
00:57:40,480 --> 00:57:43,840
Speaker 1: like a ham fisted attempt to prove that he was

1102
00:57:43,960 --> 00:57:47,800
Speaker 1: in there, they was in there. Yeah, so that's where

1103
00:57:47,880 --> 00:57:52,760
Speaker 1: it's a ham fisted attempt at destroying the evidence. But

1104
00:57:52,960 --> 00:57:56,240
Speaker 1: again I say, Okay, if you're gonna destroy evidence, you've

1105
00:57:56,280 --> 00:57:59,120
Speaker 1: got a whole why would you dump the evidence because

1106
00:57:59,200 --> 00:58:03,000
Speaker 1: maybe is the body instead of the vat of acids

1107
00:58:03,160 --> 00:58:05,720
Speaker 1: that are available. I mean that like he got murdered

1108
00:58:05,760 --> 00:58:07,880
Speaker 1: somewhere else since someone was trying to dump evidence in

1109
00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:10,520
Speaker 1: there for whatever, And I don't know one of the

1110
00:58:10,600 --> 00:58:13,360
Speaker 1: other bodies that they put into that. I don't know.

1111
00:58:13,440 --> 00:58:16,560
Speaker 1: Maybe I don't know why they would find bone fragments necessarily,

1112
00:58:16,640 --> 00:58:19,400
Speaker 1: but you know, you could, I guess you could get

1113
00:58:19,440 --> 00:58:21,680
Speaker 1: to the point where you would be kind of a

1114
00:58:21,760 --> 00:58:24,480
Speaker 1: dummy and be like us and be like, yeah, yeah,

1115
00:58:24,560 --> 00:58:27,080
Speaker 1: that's really really hot and molten, so it's obviously gonna

1116
00:58:27,120 --> 00:58:29,440
Speaker 1: melt everything versus the acid, Like, I don't know what

1117
00:58:29,560 --> 00:58:31,120
Speaker 1: it's gonna do, so I'll just throw it in that

1118
00:58:31,200 --> 00:58:34,240
Speaker 1: molten stuff and it'll melt everything. Yeah, maybe they didn't realize.

1119
00:58:34,240 --> 00:58:36,640
Speaker 1: I mean, there's no way this plant will ever shut

1120
00:58:36,720 --> 00:58:38,960
Speaker 1: this thing down for long enough for anybody to pull

1121
00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:42,360
Speaker 1: anything out of it, so it's just lost in the forever. Yeah,

1122
00:58:42,360 --> 00:58:44,880
Speaker 1: it might have been at whoever, whoever it was, if

1123
00:58:44,920 --> 00:58:47,480
Speaker 1: somebody did that didn't realize that they were they were

1124
00:58:47,480 --> 00:58:50,160
Speaker 1: actually keeping records of the temperature in the furnace, which

1125
00:58:50,240 --> 00:58:52,120
Speaker 1: kind of makes sense that they would, but I didn't

1126
00:58:52,200 --> 00:58:54,440
Speaker 1: realize that it would sort of be at this giveaway

1127
00:58:54,480 --> 00:58:56,760
Speaker 1: they pushed his body in there. But again, at the

1128
00:58:56,840 --> 00:58:59,280
Speaker 1: same time, if you're disposing and you totally want to

1129
00:58:59,280 --> 00:59:02,040
Speaker 1: get rid of the body, then it makes no sense

1130
00:59:02,080 --> 00:59:03,760
Speaker 1: to go back later and throw the keys in there,

1131
00:59:04,040 --> 00:59:06,880
Speaker 1: no sense at all at all. And let's say, if

1132
00:59:06,920 --> 00:59:09,520
Speaker 1: you don't really care if the body is found, but

1133
00:59:09,840 --> 00:59:11,280
Speaker 1: the main reason to push it in there was just

1134
00:59:11,400 --> 00:59:14,760
Speaker 1: to eradicate, you know, the indications that you had, say

1135
00:59:14,840 --> 00:59:17,640
Speaker 1: acts murdered him or blunting him to death or strangled him,

1136
00:59:17,960 --> 00:59:21,480
Speaker 1: just whatever evidence figured you're going to survive for absolutely.

1137
00:59:21,520 --> 00:59:23,200
Speaker 1: So if that was her, if that was your motive,

1138
00:59:23,240 --> 00:59:25,400
Speaker 1: then again, what purpose does it serve to drop the

1139
00:59:25,480 --> 00:59:27,520
Speaker 1: keys in there? Why wouldn't you just leave them where

1140
00:59:27,520 --> 00:59:31,880
Speaker 1: they are a sewer drain on your way home. Maybe

1141
00:59:31,920 --> 00:59:35,560
Speaker 1: it was the ham fisted attempt by the management to

1142
00:59:35,680 --> 00:59:38,920
Speaker 1: cover up what you know they thought was or a

1143
00:59:39,040 --> 00:59:43,520
Speaker 1: ham fisted attempts to prove that he did it willingly.

1144
00:59:43,680 --> 00:59:46,000
Speaker 1: And so well, I'll just toss the keys in where

1145
00:59:46,040 --> 00:59:49,320
Speaker 1: they found him there they think he's at, because that

1146
00:59:49,480 --> 00:59:54,200
Speaker 1: idiot obviously got himself killed. And I don't know, lots

1147
00:59:54,240 --> 00:59:56,920
Speaker 1: of fisting in this. Yeah, I know it makes no

1148
00:59:57,080 --> 00:59:59,640
Speaker 1: sense to me. I but I can only conclude that

1149
01:00:00,200 --> 01:00:07,160
Speaker 1: m robots, oh god, those things, but I can only robots. Sorry,

1150
01:00:07,680 --> 01:00:12,600
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, we keep interrupting you. I'm sorry. Um, Well, anyway,

1151
01:00:12,920 --> 01:00:14,880
Speaker 1: I think he had two sets of keys, so I

1152
01:00:14,960 --> 01:00:18,400
Speaker 1: think he probably did. I don't disagree with that. Yeah. Yeah,

1153
01:00:18,800 --> 01:00:23,000
Speaker 1: so murder maybe not, Yeah, probably, you know, well, it

1154
01:00:23,080 --> 01:00:25,600
Speaker 1: doesn't mean it wasn't murdered. I'm just not seeing it.

1155
01:00:25,680 --> 01:00:28,040
Speaker 1: There's no physical evidence, but of course there isn't because

1156
01:00:28,560 --> 01:00:31,000
Speaker 1: well they shoved his body into the furnace. So yeah,

1157
01:00:31,880 --> 01:00:34,320
Speaker 1: actually we keep calling out a ham fist to cover up,

1158
01:00:34,360 --> 01:00:36,040
Speaker 1: but actually it's a pretty dang good cover up that

1159
01:00:36,400 --> 01:00:39,280
Speaker 1: they did. Pretty well. Whatever happened him, whatever evidence might

1160
01:00:39,320 --> 01:00:42,280
Speaker 1: have been there is not there. Yeah. Yeah. As far

1161
01:00:42,360 --> 01:00:45,520
Speaker 1: as motive, well, again leaving inside the whistle blower thing,

1162
01:00:45,600 --> 01:00:47,520
Speaker 1: well I can't see a motive there either, and there's

1163
01:00:47,560 --> 01:00:50,200
Speaker 1: no evidence of whistle blowing, so I don't know who

1164
01:00:50,280 --> 01:00:54,280
Speaker 1: knows unless he's got dirt on somebody for something else. Yeah,

1165
01:00:54,400 --> 01:00:56,080
Speaker 1: there could have been something else that It could have

1166
01:00:56,160 --> 01:00:58,160
Speaker 1: been just one of the serial one of those one

1167
01:00:58,200 --> 01:01:01,120
Speaker 1: of the security guards was just a serial killer, or

1168
01:01:01,240 --> 01:01:04,240
Speaker 1: the mob was involved somehow and he was spilled the

1169
01:01:04,320 --> 01:01:07,320
Speaker 1: beans on the mob. I mean, you know, really seriously,

1170
01:01:07,440 --> 01:01:09,840
Speaker 1: I mean, if you want to think about murder, it

1171
01:01:09,880 --> 01:01:12,480
Speaker 1: could have been just a random serial killer kind of thing.

1172
01:01:12,720 --> 01:01:16,080
Speaker 1: You know, it could have been just a general heat

1173
01:01:16,120 --> 01:01:19,520
Speaker 1: of the moment, fight killing kind of thing. I didn't

1174
01:01:19,560 --> 01:01:21,000
Speaker 1: mean the heat of the moment, nice fun, I know,

1175
01:01:21,440 --> 01:01:25,440
Speaker 1: but you know, somebody just losing their gourd and beating

1176
01:01:25,480 --> 01:01:29,520
Speaker 1: the holy hell out even going Oops, he's not breathing.

1177
01:01:30,040 --> 01:01:32,360
Speaker 1: I gotta get rid of in here. Better shove to

1178
01:01:32,440 --> 01:01:34,680
Speaker 1: the furnace. It's the closest place. I don't want to

1179
01:01:34,680 --> 01:01:38,120
Speaker 1: be seen carrying him, right, Yeah, he's heavy, I'm lazy.

1180
01:01:38,560 --> 01:01:40,120
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get rid of him. Well. Also I don't

1181
01:01:40,120 --> 01:01:43,600
Speaker 1: want to be seen carrying him. Yeah. So are there

1182
01:01:43,600 --> 01:01:46,360
Speaker 1: any more theory? Yeah? One war, which is that Dave

1183
01:01:46,480 --> 01:01:48,480
Speaker 1: was not in the furnace at all. Maybe Dave ran

1184
01:01:48,520 --> 01:01:52,600
Speaker 1: off to join the circus um. But there were some

1185
01:01:52,840 --> 01:01:55,720
Speaker 1: parties that said that maybe he didn't die in that furnace.

1186
01:01:55,800 --> 01:01:59,880
Speaker 1: Among them all State Life Insurance Company, Credit Life Insurance Company,

1187
01:02:00,040 --> 01:02:03,600
Speaker 1: National Led of Ohio, Inc. Workman's Compensation Bureau of Ohio.

1188
01:02:04,600 --> 01:02:06,840
Speaker 1: Uh So, they were all defendants in a suit that

1189
01:02:07,000 --> 01:02:09,440
Speaker 1: was brought by Dave box family. They wanted him to

1190
01:02:09,440 --> 01:02:13,040
Speaker 1: declare legally dead so they could collect benefits like social security,

1191
01:02:13,080 --> 01:02:17,200
Speaker 1: Workman's comp life insurance, and of course, as I said earlier,

1192
01:02:17,240 --> 01:02:20,280
Speaker 1: than the coroner's office wasn't signing issuing a signed death

1193
01:02:20,320 --> 01:02:22,760
Speaker 1: certificate or any There's no body. Yeah, no body, no

1194
01:02:22,880 --> 01:02:26,160
Speaker 1: evidence approvable body. Yeah, and I don't even know bones

1195
01:02:26,320 --> 01:02:29,720
Speaker 1: like that that have been subjected to that. You're not

1196
01:02:29,760 --> 01:02:32,440
Speaker 1: even gonna get DNA, even if DNA was available at

1197
01:02:32,520 --> 01:02:37,320
Speaker 1: that time. There's no no usable DNA. It is so cooked. Yeah, yeah,

1198
01:02:37,320 --> 01:02:39,439
Speaker 1: I can't imagine. It's so how the hell do you tell?

1199
01:02:39,520 --> 01:02:43,200
Speaker 1: For share? I mean, most people, most people kind of

1200
01:02:43,240 --> 01:02:45,760
Speaker 1: believed it was Dave, But as far as provident, well

1201
01:02:45,920 --> 01:02:48,600
Speaker 1: you can't. Yeah. I mean, he literally could have gone

1202
01:02:48,640 --> 01:02:50,960
Speaker 1: to a graveyard and dug up a set of bones

1203
01:02:51,440 --> 01:02:54,560
Speaker 1: and thrown them in with his glasses and a pair

1204
01:02:54,680 --> 01:02:56,920
Speaker 1: of his boots. He could have thrown in his lucky

1205
01:02:57,160 --> 01:03:00,800
Speaker 1: rabbit foot for all we know. Well, I'm pretty sure

1206
01:03:00,840 --> 01:03:05,680
Speaker 1: the bones were somewhat identifiable as human. I don't know.

1207
01:03:06,040 --> 01:03:09,800
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, if you've seen a rabbit there.

1208
01:03:10,240 --> 01:03:16,120
Speaker 1: I'm just saying, Okay, a little bit of hyperboly, Okay, fine,

1209
01:03:16,520 --> 01:03:19,440
Speaker 1: but I'm just saying, like, for all i'd like, we

1210
01:03:19,520 --> 01:03:22,160
Speaker 1: don't know, we have no way of even probably realistically

1211
01:03:22,200 --> 01:03:24,080
Speaker 1: identifying if they were human or not, because we don't

1212
01:03:24,120 --> 01:03:27,120
Speaker 1: have no DNA markers or anything. They were called they

1213
01:03:27,160 --> 01:03:29,640
Speaker 1: call them bone fragments too. I don't know how big

1214
01:03:29,720 --> 01:03:33,520
Speaker 1: the pieces were. I assume that human bones if you

1215
01:03:33,560 --> 01:03:38,000
Speaker 1: look at them under a microscope, you know. I don't know. Yeah,

1216
01:03:38,040 --> 01:03:42,720
Speaker 1: I don't know for sure, but yeah, yeah, I don't know.

1217
01:03:46,000 --> 01:03:49,240
Speaker 1: But apparently according to according to the courts and everything,

1218
01:03:49,320 --> 01:03:52,080
Speaker 1: they seem to be satisfied that they were indeed human bones.

1219
01:03:52,240 --> 01:03:54,200
Speaker 1: But I don't know how they how they went about

1220
01:03:54,240 --> 01:03:58,480
Speaker 1: confirming that. So did Dave leave town and start a

1221
01:03:58,520 --> 01:04:01,520
Speaker 1: new life somewhere? Um, I kind of doubt it. This

1222
01:04:01,680 --> 01:04:05,120
Speaker 1: is possible. Well, it's possible, but I don't believe it. Yeah,

1223
01:04:06,000 --> 01:04:10,439
Speaker 1: I really. As much as I would like to call

1224
01:04:10,680 --> 01:04:15,920
Speaker 1: this cover up or conspiracy, I hate to say it,

1225
01:04:16,080 --> 01:04:19,920
Speaker 1: but if that's truly his, his remains in that that

1226
01:04:20,200 --> 01:04:24,280
Speaker 1: that smelting pot or whatever that thing was. I think

1227
01:04:24,320 --> 01:04:28,600
Speaker 1: it was an accident. Industrial accidents have been a lot.

1228
01:04:29,680 --> 01:04:32,720
Speaker 1: If the velvet rope wasn't in place, he may have

1229
01:04:32,880 --> 01:04:35,520
Speaker 1: walked in. Well, I'm gonna I'm gonna rank them in order,

1230
01:04:35,800 --> 01:04:38,240
Speaker 1: in order by likelihood, in my opinion, at least my

1231
01:04:38,320 --> 01:04:43,200
Speaker 1: opinions that the series are number one, suicide, number two, murder,

1232
01:04:43,320 --> 01:04:46,000
Speaker 1: number three, accidents and the accident for me is number

1233
01:04:46,040 --> 01:04:48,640
Speaker 1: three on the list, and last of all faked. His

1234
01:04:48,720 --> 01:04:51,880
Speaker 1: own death is number four. So that's my that's that's

1235
01:04:51,880 --> 01:04:54,080
Speaker 1: where I meant the reason, not saying again accidents. He

1236
01:04:54,160 --> 01:04:56,600
Speaker 1: had no business in plants six. There was no reason

1237
01:04:56,680 --> 01:05:00,360
Speaker 1: for him to be. He had no business there, And frankly,

1238
01:05:01,040 --> 01:05:06,000
Speaker 1: accidentally falling into one of these furnaces strikes me as ludicrous.

1239
01:05:07,040 --> 01:05:09,240
Speaker 1: It really, I mean, really kind of kind of absurd.

1240
01:05:09,280 --> 01:05:12,480
Speaker 1: I just find suicide a lot easier to believe than

1241
01:05:12,520 --> 01:05:16,480
Speaker 1: accident myself. Devin, what do you think? I guess I

1242
01:05:18,280 --> 01:05:23,320
Speaker 1: don't like any of the theories. Um, I most believe

1243
01:05:23,480 --> 01:05:27,680
Speaker 1: I think accident. I don't believe suicide. I don't want

1244
01:05:27,760 --> 01:05:33,320
Speaker 1: to believe murder because just like of of the horrors

1245
01:05:33,440 --> 01:05:39,920
Speaker 1: in this world, going into a furnace alive, especially actually

1246
01:05:40,040 --> 01:05:43,000
Speaker 1: if he was murdered, I don't think they actually shoved

1247
01:05:43,080 --> 01:05:46,520
Speaker 1: him in alive because they're at least unconscious, Because I mean,

1248
01:05:46,520 --> 01:05:49,520
Speaker 1: I'm not are you going to wrestle somebody into a furnace?

1249
01:05:50,000 --> 01:05:51,840
Speaker 1: Sure as hell wouldn't do, all right, So then I

1250
01:05:51,920 --> 01:05:54,080
Speaker 1: guess I like murder the most because it's probably the

1251
01:05:54,200 --> 01:05:57,200
Speaker 1: least painful for him. I suppose. Yeah, I'm sure he

1252
01:05:57,320 --> 01:05:59,600
Speaker 1: was cute, was like blunting and then you know the furnace.

1253
01:05:59,640 --> 01:06:01,760
Speaker 1: He went. That's a good reason I like murder. And

1254
01:06:01,760 --> 01:06:03,480
Speaker 1: I got to admit murder is number two on my

1255
01:06:03,640 --> 01:06:07,240
Speaker 1: last time I and and murder is entirely possible. It's

1256
01:06:07,240 --> 01:06:10,080
Speaker 1: just that we have no evidence. And that's why that's

1257
01:06:10,120 --> 01:06:13,200
Speaker 1: why I'm going with suicide rather than I already said

1258
01:06:13,280 --> 01:06:16,960
Speaker 1: my night, I'm behind accident. All right. Well, alright, so

1259
01:06:17,760 --> 01:06:20,320
Speaker 1: you guys out there probably have your favorite theories, so

1260
01:06:20,600 --> 01:06:22,680
Speaker 1: you're gonna want to contact us, and let's let us

1261
01:06:22,760 --> 01:06:25,720
Speaker 1: know what they are hand time, right, Uh, So you

1262
01:06:25,800 --> 01:06:30,040
Speaker 1: can send us an email. We actually have email, believe

1263
01:06:30,040 --> 01:06:34,520
Speaker 1: it or not. It's Thinking Sideways Podcast at gmail dot com.

1264
01:06:34,960 --> 01:06:37,640
Speaker 1: So yeah, way in today. Yeah, And we also have

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01:06:37,800 --> 01:06:42,360
Speaker 1: a website, which is Thinking Sideways podcast dot com, where

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01:06:42,400 --> 01:06:44,680
Speaker 1: you can find your episodes which you can download and

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01:06:44,760 --> 01:06:48,080
Speaker 1: listen to. Um. You can also find us on iTunes

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01:06:48,200 --> 01:06:50,480
Speaker 1: where you can subscribe. You can rate us, review US,

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01:06:51,360 --> 01:06:54,560
Speaker 1: rate US high, review us well uh if you don't mind, uh,

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Speaker 1: and you can stream us all over the place, including

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01:06:56,680 --> 01:07:00,080
Speaker 1: Google Play, Stitcher, and god knows where else. Um. And

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01:07:00,680 --> 01:07:05,040
Speaker 1: of course we have social media Facebook. We've heard of that, right,

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01:07:05,360 --> 01:07:07,600
Speaker 1: So we have a group joined the group like the page,

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01:07:07,720 --> 01:07:09,480
Speaker 1: So don't join the page and like the group. No,

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01:07:10,120 --> 01:07:13,440
Speaker 1: join the group like the page. Twitter thinking the sideways

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01:07:13,520 --> 01:07:16,120
Speaker 1: drop the g and we are on the Twitter and

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01:07:16,280 --> 01:07:19,360
Speaker 1: we have a sepreddit thinking sideways h Any action on

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01:07:19,440 --> 01:07:23,000
Speaker 1: that lately, Devin, So okay, there you go. Uh. And

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01:07:23,160 --> 01:07:25,880
Speaker 1: of course you can also support us by buying merchandise.

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01:07:26,040 --> 01:07:29,760
Speaker 1: So on our website you'll find a link to Zazzle

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01:07:29,840 --> 01:07:33,320
Speaker 1: and red Bubble. You get shirts, mugs, stickers, and god

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01:07:33,400 --> 01:07:35,080
Speaker 1: knows what else, all kinds of stuff, all kinds of

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01:07:35,120 --> 01:07:39,240
Speaker 1: good stuff. Yeah. Murder weapons, I mean a mug could

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01:07:39,240 --> 01:07:42,120
Speaker 1: be a murder weapon. It's not marketed as a murder weapon, now,

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01:07:42,200 --> 01:07:45,760
Speaker 1: it's not. It's a paperweight. We don't make murder weapons. Yeah. Uh.

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01:07:45,880 --> 01:07:51,040
Speaker 1: And so that's about it. So anyway until next week, folks. Uh,

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Speaker 1: this is thinking sideways HQ signing off. Like I said,

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01:07:55,560 --> 01:07:58,560
Speaker 1: send us an email, tell us what you think. Bye

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Speaker 1: bye guys, such a guys. Next