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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you missed in History Class from dot Com. Hello,

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Speaker 1: and welcome to the podcast. I'm Tracy Wilson and I'm

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Speaker 1: Holly Frying. When we talk about the civil rights movement

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Speaker 1: in the United States, one piece of historical context that

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Speaker 1: comes up pretty frequently is that African American soldiers returned

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Speaker 1: home from serving in World War Two to find that

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Speaker 1: even though they had just risked their lives for their country,

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Speaker 1: they were still being treated as second class citizens as

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Speaker 1: they had been before, that they were still the targets

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Speaker 1: of intense discrimination and segregation. So the idea is that

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Speaker 1: this incongruity between having served a nation at the risk

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Speaker 1: of one's own life and then being treated that way

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Speaker 1: by that nation after getting home again prompted a lot

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Speaker 1: of people to advocate for their own equal treatment, and

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Speaker 1: so that it's a little more complicated than that, but

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Speaker 1: that atit heart is basically true. But it also was

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Speaker 1: not unique to black soldiers, or as we are going

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Speaker 1: to talk about in another episode a little farther down

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Speaker 1: the road, it also wasn't unique to World War Two.

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Speaker 1: But today we are going to talk about how World

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Speaker 1: War Two prompted efforts towards equal rights for Hispanics and

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Speaker 1: Latinos in the United States, and we're going to do

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Speaker 1: that by telling the story of Maccario Garcia. Garcia was

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Speaker 1: born in Mexico and was the first Mexican national to

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Speaker 1: be awarded the Medal of Honor, which is the United

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Speaker 1: States Armed Forces highest award for a valor. But when

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Speaker 1: he got back to Texas, he found that he was

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Speaker 1: still the target of segregation and discrimination himself. So we

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Speaker 1: are going to talk about that story today. Mccario Garcia

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Speaker 1: was born in Via di Castagno, Mexico, on January second

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Speaker 1: of nineteen. His parents were Luciano Andsfa Garcia, and he

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Speaker 1: was one of ten children. The Garcias were farm workers,

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Speaker 1: and in nineteen twenty three they moved to Texas with

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Speaker 1: the hope of finding work as farm laborers. They settled

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Speaker 1: near sugar Land End, which is outside of Houston and

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Speaker 1: Fort Bend County. I have asked multiple Texan people whether

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Speaker 1: it is Sugarland or sugar Land, and I got two

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Speaker 1: different answers, So we're saying Sugarland all those Sugarland is

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Speaker 1: now a city at this point. This area was quite

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Speaker 1: rural in nineteen fifty six, which is About a decade

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Speaker 1: after this story takes place, there were only about twenty

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Speaker 1: two hundred people living there. Maccario's parents both got jobs

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Speaker 1: working on a cotton farm, and Maccario eventually left school

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Speaker 1: to work on a ranch. By nineteen forty, World War

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Speaker 1: two was well underway elsewhere in the world, and it

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Speaker 1: was clear that the United States might be drawn in

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Speaker 1: as well, so on September sixteenth of nineteen forty, the

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Speaker 1: Selective Training and Service Act of nineteen forty, also called

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Speaker 1: the Burke Wadsworth Act, was signed into law by President

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Speaker 1: Franklin D. Roosevelt. It required men between the ages of

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Speaker 1: one and thirty six, regardless of whether they were citizens,

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Speaker 1: to register with the Draft Board. Had also established a

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Speaker 1: lottery that would be used to draft soldiers into the military.

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Speaker 1: Since the United States wasn't actually at war at this point,

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Speaker 1: this is considered to be the first peacetime draft in

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Speaker 1: United States history, and the draft began that October. The

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Speaker 1: United States entered the war on December seventh of nineteen

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Speaker 1: forty one. After the bombing of Pearl Harbor in in

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Speaker 1: nineteen forty two, when he was twenty two, Macario Garcia

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Speaker 1: was drafted. Although African American soldiers were segregated into their

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Speaker 1: own units. At this point, Hispanic and Anglo soldiers served together,

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Speaker 1: so Garcia became a private and U. S. Army B Company,

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Speaker 1: first Battalion, twenty second Infantry, fourth Infantry Division. He was

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Speaker 1: part of the Allies D Day invasion and he was

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Speaker 1: wounded at Normandy. He spent four months after that recovering,

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Speaker 1: and we don't really have a lot of detail there

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Speaker 1: other than that he went on to rejoin his unit

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Speaker 1: after he had recovered. The event that earned Garcia the

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Speaker 1: Middle of Honor took place on November twenty seven of

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Speaker 1: nineteen forty four. Machine gunners protected by trees were blocking

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Speaker 1: his company's advance en route to Cologne, Germany. There was

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Speaker 1: almost no cover between Garcia's company and the machine gunners

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Speaker 1: and they were pinned down. Garcia, who was acting as

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Speaker 1: a squad leader, volunteered to try to take out the nests.

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Speaker 1: He basically crawled toward one machine gun nest and lodged

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Speaker 1: grenades into it, destroying the gun before shooting three soldiers

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Speaker 1: who tried to escape in the process. He was shot

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Speaker 1: himself in the shoulder and the foot when he tried

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Speaker 1: to return to his company, though another machine gunner in

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Speaker 1: a second nest opened fire. Even though he was already wounded,

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Speaker 1: He approached that second gun as well, killing three other

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Speaker 1: soldiers and taking four prisoners. He refused to be evacuated

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Speaker 1: until the area was secure, and he was hospitalized for

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Speaker 1: two months. After this, he was offered a promotion that

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Speaker 1: would have made him a lieutenant, but he elected to

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Speaker 1: return to his company instead. Sorry. Kind of amazes me.

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Speaker 1: Not only at the single landedly take out two machine

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Speaker 1: gun nests, he did it while injured, um so fairly.

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Speaker 1: Before the end of the war, after Garcia returned to

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Speaker 1: the United States, President Harry S. Truman presented him, along

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Speaker 1: with twenty seven other soldiers, with the Medal of Honor.

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Speaker 1: Has happened at a ceremony at the White House that

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Speaker 1: was on auguste. While draping the medal around Garcia's neck,

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Speaker 1: Truman reportedly told him, I would rather earn this than

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Speaker 1: be president. In addition to his Medal of Honor, Garcia

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Speaker 1: also received a purple Heart, which, in case you did

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Speaker 1: not know, is presented to those who are wounded or killed,

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Speaker 1: the Bronze Star, which is for quote heroic or meritorious

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Speaker 1: Achievement and the Combat infantry Man's Badge. After serving in

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Speaker 1: the United States Army for three years, one of them

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Speaker 1: in overseas combat, Maccario Garcia was honorably discharged with the

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Speaker 1: rank of sergeant. When he returned home to sugar Land,

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Speaker 1: he received a hero's welcome, and he was treated as

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Speaker 1: a celebrity. Local newspapers wrote stories about out him, and

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Speaker 1: local governments and civic organizations blooded him with request for

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Speaker 1: speeches and appearances. The League of United Latin American Citizens Council,

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Speaker 1: also known as LULAC, held a special ceremony to honor

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Speaker 1: him at the nearby Richmond Courthouse, followed by a party

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Speaker 1: and a dance on September nine of ninety So the

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Speaker 1: Hispanic and Latino community in Texas was quite proud of

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Speaker 1: Macario Garcia, and so were the sugar Land and Greater

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Speaker 1: Houston areas as a whole. So it's a little surprising

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Speaker 1: what happened the next day, which is what we're going

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Speaker 1: to talk about, after a brief sponsor break, a little

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Speaker 1: less than three weeks after his Medal of Honor ceremony

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Speaker 1: and the day after a dance had been held in

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Speaker 1: his honor. On September ten ninety five, Macario Garcia made

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Speaker 1: the news again, and this time it was after an

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Speaker 1: incident at a Richmond, Texas restaurant. This is about ten

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Speaker 1: miles from his home in Sugarland. It was the same

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Speaker 1: town where the party in the dance had been held

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Speaker 1: at this at the county courthouse the night for Richmond

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Speaker 1: is the county seat of that county. Many restaurants and

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Speaker 1: public areas were at this point segregated in terms of

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Speaker 1: both race and ethnicity. And while Jim Crow laws made

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Speaker 1: segregation of African Americans commonplace, particularly in the South, Texas

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Speaker 1: was at that point the only state with a large

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Speaker 1: Hispanic population, so in Texas, segregation also targeted Mexican Americans

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Speaker 1: and other people whose origins were in Mexico or other

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Speaker 1: parts of Central and South America. As a side note,

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Speaker 1: this was also true in other states that had other

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Speaker 1: large populations of other minorities. So communities with large populations

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Speaker 1: of people with Asian and ancestry, for example, had had

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Speaker 1: segregation laws and practices that targeted those groups specifically as well.

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Speaker 1: And while Richmond's Oasis Cafe didn't have signs posted about

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Speaker 1: who was or wasn't allowed to eat there. It had

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Speaker 1: a reputation as a white establishment, one that just didn't

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Speaker 1: offer food, music, or entertainment, intended to appeal to a

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Speaker 1: Hispanic customer base. In the words of the owner's son,

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Speaker 1: Louis Payton, speaking in a documentary quote, we had very

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Speaker 1: few Blacks or Mexican Americans come in and ask for

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Speaker 1: service because we didn't cater to their needs. So we

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Speaker 1: just didn't see any of them. While there were also

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Speaker 1: other restaurants and Richmond that did serve Hispanic and Latino customers,

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Speaker 1: the Oasis Cafe was really Richmond's only night spot, and

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Speaker 1: this incident happened around eleven PM, and there's some dispute

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Speaker 1: as to what actually happened. Garcia's assertion was that he

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Speaker 1: arrived at the restaurant and its owner, Donna Andrews, refused

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Speaker 1: him service because he was Mexican. He was furious. He

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Speaker 1: had just served the United States in wartime, risked his life,

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Speaker 1: been awarded a Medal of Honor along with many other

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Speaker 1: recognitions for his heroism and patriotism, and now back in

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Speaker 1: Texas he was being refused service for his ethnicity. In

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Speaker 1: his version of the story, he demanded an explanation physically

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Speaker 1: sisted being thrown out and was hit with a baseball bat.

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Speaker 1: The restaurant's assertion was that Garcia was drunk and belligerent

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Speaker 1: from the start, and that he was refused service for

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Speaker 1: that reason, not because of his ethnicity. When the restaurant's

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Speaker 1: version of the story, Garcia started throwing things pretty much

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Speaker 1: immediately and also hit the owner in the mouth. Regardless

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Speaker 1: of how I went down, though everyone agrees that Garcia

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Speaker 1: was refused service, the restaurant's owners called the police and

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Speaker 1: Garcia was removed from the premises and taken to jail.

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Speaker 1: Garcia insisted throughout that his treatment at the Oasis Cafe

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Speaker 1: was because he was Mexican. The sheriff ultimately decided to

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Speaker 1: let him go home. Here's how this was later reported

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Speaker 1: in The Texas Coaster, which was the weekly local paper

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Speaker 1: and it's issue that came out on September. The incident,

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Speaker 1: which has caused widespread interest, occurred after Mrs Andrews refused

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Speaker 1: service in the cafe to Garcia and his party on

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Speaker 1: the night of September ten. Mrs Andrews and her brother Pete,

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Speaker 1: where he was a partner in the cafe business, set

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Speaker 1: in statements made to County Attorney Brown that they refused

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Speaker 1: service to Garcia, quote because he had been drinking. The

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Speaker 1: affidavits stated that after being refused service, Garcia broke sugar bowls,

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Speaker 1: salt and pepper shakers, catchup bottles, several bottles of wine,

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Speaker 1: water glasses, and three window panes, and struck Mrs Andrews

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Speaker 1: in the mouth with his fist before he was quieted.

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Speaker 1: After he struck Mrs Andrews, the statements continued, a struggle

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Speaker 1: ensued between Garcia and Lower and Mrs Andrew's son, Louis Peyton.

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Speaker 1: Garcia was quieted after he was hit across the back

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Speaker 1: with a baseball bat, the statement said. According to the

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Speaker 1: same Texas Coaster article, the responding deputy confirmed that Garcia

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Speaker 1: had been drinking, but said he did not know of

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Speaker 1: any damage to the restaurant. So September was more than

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Speaker 1: two weeks after the original incident actually happened. But The

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Speaker 1: Texas Coaster was a weekly newspaper, and there are a

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Speaker 1: couple of reasons for this lengthy gap between the event

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Speaker 1: happening and the article coming out. One was that The

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Speaker 1: Texas Coaster had originally considered reporting the story in its

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Speaker 1: previous issue, but then it decided not to out of

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Speaker 1: respect for Garcia being a war hero number two. At

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Speaker 1: the point of the prior issues preparation, it just didn't

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Speaker 1: seem like that much of a story. The sheriff and

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Speaker 1: sent Garcia home. The whole thing seemed like kind of

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Speaker 1: a minor, are isolated scuffle, with two sides telling pretty

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Speaker 1: distinctly different stories about it. However, John Jay Herrera, one

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Speaker 1: of the area's only Mexican American lawyers, was also one

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Speaker 1: of the community leaders who had helped plan Garcia's reception

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Speaker 1: and ceremonies that took place prior to the incident at

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Speaker 1: the Oasis Cafe. Harrera's involvement in Hispanic and Latino social

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Speaker 1: and civic organizations meant he was very aware of the

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Speaker 1: real ongoing prejudices and discrimination in Texas, and he thought

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Speaker 1: Garcia's story was exactly the sword that would raise awareness

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Speaker 1: of that discrimination, and it would rally the Mexican American

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Speaker 1: community and possibly the Anglo community as well, around fighting

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Speaker 1: for equality, and he hoped that it would perhaps force

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Speaker 1: local and state governments to take action to end it.

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Speaker 1: So someone, almost certainly Herrera tipped off gossip columnists and

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Speaker 1: radio host Walter Winchell that a war hero and Medal

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Speaker 1: of Honor recipient had been refused service at a restaurant

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Speaker 1: because of his ethnicity. So on September Winchell gave a

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Speaker 1: scathing account of the whole thing, which really wasn't entirely accurate.

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Speaker 1: On his radio show. He said that this had occurred

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Speaker 1: in sugar Land rather than in Richmond. He described the

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Speaker 1: involvement of two sailors who seemed not to have existed

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Speaker 1: at all, and he also reported that Garcia wound up

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Speaker 1: in the hospital afterward. So if Walter Winchell's name rings

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Speaker 1: a bell and you're struggling to place it and can't

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Speaker 1: quite remember why, longtime listeners will remember that he also

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Speaker 1: played a part in the Tokyo Rose episode from when

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Speaker 1: Sarah and Deblina were hosting together. He was actually one

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Speaker 1: of the people who stirred up outrage against Iva to

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Speaker 1: keen know. Once Winchell's radio program and his column were out,

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Speaker 1: this story really spread all over the country, with a

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Speaker 1: lot of the tone being that Fort ben County was

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Speaker 1: a racist, discriminatory, and incompetent place, especially against war heroes.

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Speaker 1: So it was only after this story was suddenly everywhere

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Speaker 1: with it consistently being covered as an active discrimination against

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Speaker 1: a war hero based on his ethnicity, that the county

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Speaker 1: actually took legal action against Garcia and the Texas Coaster

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Speaker 1: printed that story that we quoted from. Garcia was charged

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Speaker 1: with aggravated assault, and John Jay Herrera, along with other

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Speaker 1: lawyers in the months that followed, took the case. We

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Speaker 1: will talk about what happened when this got to court

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Speaker 1: after another brief word from one of the great sponsors

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Speaker 1: that keep the show on the air. Get back to

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Speaker 1: Makario Garcia's story. Regardless of whether Winchell's broadcast and all

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Speaker 1: the reporting that followed it were totally accurate or not,

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Speaker 1: people were definitely outraged at the yea that a highly

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Speaker 1: decorated veteran had been denied service. The furor did exactly

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Speaker 1: what John Jay Herrera had hoped that it would. Galvanized

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Speaker 1: the Mexican American community in the area, and it raised

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Speaker 1: the ire of the Anglo community as well. Robert E. Smith,

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Speaker 1: the chairman of the Good Neighbor Commission, posted Garcia's bond

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Speaker 1: after charges were filed, and community organizations started raising money

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Speaker 1: to help pay his legal fees. There was also huge

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Speaker 1: media interests in the court proceedings. In the late fall

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Speaker 1: of Ninetti, when the case was supposed to come to trial,

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Speaker 1: the judge, who was named Charles Schultz, was quoted as saying, quote,

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Speaker 1: nearly all the newspapers in the in the state have

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Speaker 1: asked for courtroom space to hear the case. However, that

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Speaker 1: November Fort Bent County requested a postponement and the trial

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Speaker 1: was put off until the February nineteen six session. Then,

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Speaker 1: just before the trial was about to begin, another Mexican

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Speaker 1: American veteran was also denied service at the Oasis Cafe,

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Speaker 1: apparently after an act of disobedience that was intended to

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Speaker 1: mimic Garcia's initial arrest and bring the issue back to

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Speaker 1: the forefront. Yeah, he basically went to the cafe with

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Speaker 1: a friend, both of them already drunk, and caused trouble

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Speaker 1: on purpose to get thrown out to make it major

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Speaker 1: news again, which worked. It meant that Garcia's original encounter,

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Speaker 1: along with all the inaccurate reporting that had followed it,

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Speaker 1: was once again all re reported, which put all eyes

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Speaker 1: back on for ben County with the idea that it

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Speaker 1: was an unfair and discriminatory place for Hispanics. So the

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Speaker 1: county took the probably pretty prudent move to try to

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Speaker 1: reschedule the trial once again, this time until June, when

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Speaker 1: hopefully the news would not be so focused on it

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Speaker 1: or so openly critical of Fort Ben County officials. At

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Speaker 1: this point, James V. Alread became Garcia's attorney of record.

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Speaker 1: This was a huge deal. Alread had been the Texas

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Speaker 1: Attorney General as well as a federal district judge and

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Speaker 1: the governor. Having such an enormously high profile Anglo attorney

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Speaker 1: representing Garcia proved to be too much for the county,

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Speaker 1: which quietly dropped the charges and Garcia quietly returned to

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Speaker 1: life as a private citizen. Even though Garcia's case never

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Speaker 1: actually came to trial, all the publicity surrounding it did

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Speaker 1: have the result that Herrera seems to have hoped for

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Speaker 1: from the beginning. The movement for equal rights for Mexican

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Speaker 1: Americans and others within the Hispanic and Latino communities, which

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Speaker 1: had been kind of loosely organized before this point, did

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Speaker 1: begin to come together for more meaningful and effective collective actions.

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Speaker 1: Herrera would go on to be part of other important

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Speaker 1: civil rights cases in Texas and elsewhere, including fighting to

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Speaker 1: overturn the verdicts in several criminal cases against Mexican American

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Speaker 1: defendants that had been tried with deliberately all anglo juries.

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Speaker 1: One of these, Hernandez versus. Texas, eventually went to the

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Speaker 1: United States Supreme Court, which unanimously found the intentionally excluding

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Speaker 1: jury members that shared a defendant's race or ethnicity violated

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Speaker 1: the equal protection clause of the Fourteenth Amendment. Yeah, that

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Speaker 1: ruling was basically, you cannot promise somebody a trial by

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Speaker 1: the jury of their peers and then specifically exclude all

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Speaker 1: their peers from the jury. That's not okay. Herrera was

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Speaker 1: also one of the lawyers who was part of the

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Speaker 1: school segregation case that became known as Mendez versus Westminster,

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Speaker 1: which we've talked about in another podcast. During all of this,

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Speaker 1: Garcia was still a Mexican national, and on January eighth

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Speaker 1: of nineteen forty six, that was a few months before

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Speaker 1: the charges against him were dropped, he actually traveled to

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Speaker 1: Mexico City where he was awarded the Merito Militar, which

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Speaker 1: is an award for exceptional acts of heroism. Maccario Garcia

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Speaker 1: became an American citizen on June nineteen forty seven. He

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Speaker 1: earned his high school diploma four years later, and then

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Speaker 1: married Alicia Reyes on May eighteenth, nineteen five two. Eventually,

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Speaker 1: Garcia became a counselor for the Veterans Administration, which is

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Speaker 1: a job that he held for twenty five years. On

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Speaker 1: December two, Macario Garcia was killed in a car accident.

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Speaker 1: He was survived by his wife and children, and sources

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Speaker 1: actually differ on how many children they had. Uh He

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Speaker 1: was buried with full military honors, with an honor guard

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Speaker 1: from Fort sam Houston and San Antonio present at the

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Speaker 1: grave side. In his eulogy, John Jay Herrera said, Maccario

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Speaker 1: Garcia was made in the best traditions of the country

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Speaker 1: of his birth and of his ancestors, Mexico, and of

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Speaker 1: his adopted country, the United States, for which he was

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Speaker 1: willing to offer and give his last measure of devotion.

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Speaker 1: All of this as a private infantryman in the United

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Speaker 1: States Army, as a winner of the Congressional Medal of Honor,

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Speaker 1: and finally as a counselor in the Veterans Administration of

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Speaker 1: the United States. Nine years after Garcia's death, the Houston

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Speaker 1: City Council changed the name of sixty nine Street, which

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Speaker 1: runs through a predominantly mixed a can American neighborhood, to

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Speaker 1: Macario Garcia Drive. Houston's Macario Garcia Army Reserve Center was

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Speaker 1: dedicated in and the following year a middle school in

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Speaker 1: Sugarland was also named after him. That is a story

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Speaker 1: of Maccario Garcia, which I had never heard it all before,

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Speaker 1: so I had not either, and I it's one of

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Speaker 1: those things that it seems obvious that, um, that while

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Speaker 1: there were definitely black soldiers who came home from the

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Speaker 1: war and we're like, this is not acceptable. Let's let's

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Speaker 1: work together to change it, that that did not only

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Speaker 1: affect black soldiers, and I also didn't only affect World

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Speaker 1: War Two, which we talked about the top of the podcast.

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Speaker 1: But that's a teaser for a later episode that will

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Speaker 1: come probably later this fall well. And it's also another

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Speaker 1: good example of like how sometimes the accounts are fuzzy

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Speaker 1: and we have to kind of muddle through and figure

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Speaker 1: out as a people, not necessarily as specifically, but kind

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Speaker 1: of how we proceed. And I think it's important to

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Speaker 1: point those out, like there's very few black and White

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Speaker 1: kind of easily sussed out moments in history. There are

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Speaker 1: sides to every story, and we try to talk about

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Speaker 1: all of them. But this is a very good example

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Speaker 1: of we have fairly recent relatively speaking to some of

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Speaker 1: the other things we talked about on the podcast accounts,

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Speaker 1: and they just do not quite match up right well.

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Speaker 1: And if the case had come to child, they would

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Speaker 1: probably be a more definitive answer about actually what happened,

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Speaker 1: because there would have been lots of witnesses and sworn testimony,

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Speaker 1: and it might not have been totally clear, but maybe

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Speaker 1: a little less. Two totally different accounts of the same story.

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Speaker 1: Do you also have a listener mail? I do. We're

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Speaker 1: gonna do listener mail a little differently today. So I

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Speaker 1: got uh an email from Mary and Mary and I

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Speaker 1: had an email conversation uh, and it's about the recent

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Speaker 1: interview that we had with Dennis Carr from the Museum

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Speaker 1: of Fine Arts, Boston about their exhibition called Made in

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Speaker 1: the Americas, which is about Asia's influence on the colonial

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Speaker 1: North and South America in terms of art and decorative

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Speaker 1: art and all that kind of stuff. Um our email

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Speaker 1: exchange was rather lengthy, which is one of the reasons.

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to read all of it, but basically

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Speaker 1: she wrote in to talk about the Casta paintings, which

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Speaker 1: there's only one of in the exhibition, and that depicts

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Speaker 1: um A, a white man, an African woman, and a

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Speaker 1: child who is presumably their child, who is uh multiracial. So,

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Speaker 1: as we alluded to in the episode, these paintings were

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Speaker 1: done as sets. It was like a whole genre of

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Speaker 1: these paintings that were done as sets documenting the social

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Speaker 1: and racial and ethnic hierarchies that emerged in Mexico during

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Speaker 1: the colonial era. And Dennis car described these basically as

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Speaker 1: being advertising spin that were written or that we're created

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Speaker 1: to sort of reassure the people in Spain that they

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Speaker 1: were sent to that yes, there were complicateds complicated social

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Speaker 1: and racial situations in Mexico, but the things were okay.

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Speaker 1: So when I heard his answer, I was sort of

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Speaker 1: interpreting as uh that these were kind of self serving

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Speaker 1: and deceptive paintings meant to portray a specific aspect of Mexico. Positively,

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Speaker 1: what Mary wrote in to point out is a whole

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Speaker 1: other aspect of them that we didn't talk about at all,

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Speaker 1: which is definitely racist because when you look at whole

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Speaker 1: sets of cast of paintings, they are organized in such

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Speaker 1: a way that the people with the lightest skinner at

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Speaker 1: the top and the people with the darkest skin or

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Speaker 1: at the bottom. And there's a whole theme of racial

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Speaker 1: purity that runs through the whole thing. And we didn't

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Speaker 1: really get into any of that in the and the

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Speaker 1: interview because the painting, the reason that painting is in

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Speaker 1: the exhibition of it, because of the clothes that the

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Speaker 1: people have on UM and the cast of paintings themselves

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Speaker 1: are are sort of a whole separate genre. So I

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Speaker 1: definitely wanted to make that more clear, because I did

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Speaker 1: not do a very good job of explaining what the

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Speaker 1: sets of paintings themselves are about when I was doing

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Speaker 1: the interview um and that the question that Dennis was

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Speaker 1: answering was you sort of specifically about what would prompt

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Speaker 1: people to do this, which I think is a really

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Speaker 1: interesting answer. The points that that Mary raises. Number one,

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Speaker 1: there's the fact that we didn't say specifically that the

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Speaker 1: paintings are pretty racist. They are. The way they describe

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Speaker 1: people in a lot of ways is offensive, especially when

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Speaker 1: you look at all of them, even the one that

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Speaker 1: is in the uh, the m f As exhibition. You know,

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Speaker 1: it describes this child as a mulatto, which is a

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Speaker 1: word that was in very common use for a very

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Speaker 1: long time. I did not know until researching before doing

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Speaker 1: that interview that the word mulatto comes from the same

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Speaker 1: word stem as mule, which is obvious now that I

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Speaker 1: see them in front of me on a piece of paper. Uh.

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Speaker 1: But that like adds a whole other layer of offensiveness

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Speaker 1: to that term. So one of the things that at

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Speaker 1: um that Mary pointed out, uh, is that I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: read a little piece of this within a set. The

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Speaker 1: clothing styles and compositions changed to show the class differences

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Speaker 1: that went along with skin color, and the terms below.

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Speaker 1: The first two generations were used in legal documents. The

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Speaker 1: terms for later generations were either made up by the

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Speaker 1: artists are used only colloquially and only in certain regions.

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Speaker 1: One translates as quote jump back, as in one eight

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Speaker 1: African plus pure Indian equals a jump back in racial purity.

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Speaker 1: Another is I don't understand, as in I don't know

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Speaker 1: what to call you because racial mixing in your family

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Speaker 1: goes back too many generations. So I wanted to talk

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Speaker 1: a little bit more directly about the painting, since we

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Speaker 1: didn't spend a lot of time on that in the

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Speaker 1: UH in the interview, which means we didn't give a

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Speaker 1: very full account of what these paintings were specifically about, UH,

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Speaker 1: and bring up the the cast system that they sort

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Speaker 1: of document UM from the colonial period, that the ramifications

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Speaker 1: of that still exist today in terms of both racism

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Speaker 1: and discrimination based on color in terms of people's skin. TOIM,

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Speaker 1: that still exists not just in Mexico and Latin America,

434
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:19,560
Speaker 1: but also in the United States. There are definitely UH

435
00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:24,560
Speaker 1: discriminatory views and practices that are related specifically to a

436
00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:28,399
Speaker 1: person's color and what their skin looks like, UM, regardless

437
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:33,080
Speaker 1: of exactly what their racial or ethnic ancestry is. So

438
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:36,560
Speaker 1: thank you Mary for writing in UM. We had we

439
00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:40,760
Speaker 1: had a whole conversation in which she sent some pictures

440
00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:44,679
Speaker 1: of some other collections of Casta paintings. UM. I still

441
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:49,200
Speaker 1: the thing that prompted me to ask about them, which

442
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:51,720
Speaker 1: I don't think I expressed very clearly. What I was

443
00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:54,320
Speaker 1: asking was that, like UH, the fact that you would

444
00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:59,080
Speaker 1: need to chronicle a set of racial hierarchies like that

445
00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:04,879
Speaker 1: is in implicitly a discriminatory idea, And so the I

446
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:10,359
Speaker 1: wondered what kind of mentality led to like a need

447
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:13,280
Speaker 1: to spawn a whole genre of artwork to write that

448
00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:18,119
Speaker 1: down basically, Yeah, that's it's a lot of work to

449
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:23,360
Speaker 1: go to to catalog humans. Yeah. Well, and it's still

450
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:26,720
Speaker 1: even even having all these ideas of different influences that

451
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:28,639
Speaker 1: went into it's still to me very odd that like

452
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:30,960
Speaker 1: anybody was like, you know, what we should do. We

453
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:35,200
Speaker 1: should make sixteen paintings. We should make sets of sixteen

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00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:39,040
Speaker 1: paintings detailing what happens when a person of one ethnicity

455
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:42,119
Speaker 1: marries or has a child with a person of another ethnicity.

456
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:45,440
Speaker 1: Like that to me is still woo okay. There's been

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00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 1: a lot of racial and ethnic hierarchies that exist all

458
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:52,399
Speaker 1: over the world. This is the only instance I know

459
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:56,840
Speaker 1: of where it spawned an entire genre of formulaic art.

460
00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:00,800
Speaker 1: So that is more detail about us to paint things.

461
00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:03,200
Speaker 1: If you would like to write to us about this

462
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Speaker 1: or any other podcast where at history podcast at how

463
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Speaker 1: stuff Works dot com. We're also on Facebook at facebook

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Speaker 1: dot com slash miss in history and on Twitter at

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Speaker 1: tumbler dot com and are on Pinterest at pinterest dot

467
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468
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Speaker 1: in history as well. If you would like to learn

469
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Speaker 1: more about what we've talked about today, you can come

470
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Speaker 1: to our parent company's website, which is how Stuffworks dot

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Speaker 1: com and you can put the words civil Rights movement

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473
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:34,200
Speaker 1: Civil Rights movement work. You can also come to our website,

474
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 1: which is miss in history dot com, and you will

475
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476
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Speaker 1: find an archive of every episode we have ever done.

477
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479
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Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com or miss in history dot com.

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Speaker 1: For more on this and thousands of other topics, is

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