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Speaker 1: Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel and I and Matt.

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Speaker 1: Today we're talking about how to be happier and more

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Speaker 1: productive working from Home with Laura Vandercam. Yeah. Laura Vandercamp

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Speaker 1: is the author of several time management in productivity books,

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Speaker 1: including Juliet's School of Possibilities, Off the Clock and The

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Speaker 1: New Corner Office. Her work has appeared in publications including

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Speaker 1: The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, Fast Company, Fortune,

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Speaker 1: lots of others. She is the host of the podcast

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Speaker 1: Before Breakfast and co host the podcast Best of Both

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Speaker 1: Worlds uh And. She lives outside Philadelphia with her husband

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Speaker 1: and five children. And she's also a friend of ours

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Speaker 1: who we had on the show a couple of years

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Speaker 1: ago when we talked about valuing our limited time. And so, Laura,

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Speaker 1: we're really excited to talk about working from home with

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Speaker 1: you today. Thanks for joining us again on the podcast.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me. I'm a big

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Speaker 1: fan of this podcast and I'll be excited to listen

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Speaker 1: to myself in the car. Awesome. Well, we're so excited

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Speaker 1: to have you back. Laura definitely one of our favorite

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Speaker 1: guests obviously, that's why we're bringing you back. The first

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Speaker 1: time we had you on, we asked you this question,

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Speaker 1: but we kind of twisted it up. We asked you

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Speaker 1: about what your craftier equivalent was, but specifically in regards

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Speaker 1: to your time, since you are a time management expert.

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Speaker 1: But now I want to know, Okay, what do you

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Speaker 1: actually explore John in the here and now while saving

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Speaker 1: intentionally for the future. What's you're a craft beer equivalent

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Speaker 1: when it comes to your money? I would say books. Uh,

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Speaker 1: And it has taken me a while to get there

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Speaker 1: because I'm a I'm a pretty frugal person, which is

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Speaker 1: one of the reasons that I listened to this podcast.

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Speaker 1: But I love to read. I'm trying to encourage my

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Speaker 1: children to read, and one of the ways to do

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Speaker 1: that is to make it very easy for books to

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Speaker 1: come to our house. Um. So when the kids ask

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Speaker 1: for books, I tend to buy them. And I'm a

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Speaker 1: little harder when it comes to things like video games

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Speaker 1: and toys. But if you ask for a book, you

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Speaker 1: have a very good chance of it coming. Um. Same

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Speaker 1: thing for me too. And you know, if I read

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Speaker 1: about a book somewhere that looks like it's good, I

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Speaker 1: just go ahead and get the books. So I can

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Speaker 1: start reading it immediately, and I don't make it through

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Speaker 1: all of them, and I am banned in a fair

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Speaker 1: number of books too, But I find that this is

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Speaker 1: a good way to get me to read more. I

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Speaker 1: can be cheap with other things, just don't be cheap

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Speaker 1: with books. I love that. It reminds me of a

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Speaker 1: Tim Ferris interview I heard, and that was one of

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Speaker 1: the things he talked about growing up. His family struggled financially,

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Speaker 1: but they always had money for books. And so is

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Speaker 1: there a book that you are reading right now that

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Speaker 1: you're really excited about. While you think about that, I'll

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Speaker 1: tell you that I recently started reading The Hobbit with

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Speaker 1: my kids, which has been totally awesome. I love I

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Speaker 1: love it when we all can get together and kind

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Speaker 1: of read aloud. But yeah, what about you, it's a

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Speaker 1: little dark. I haven't realize just how dark it was. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I cond of skip over so episodes of them about

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Speaker 1: to get eaten alive or No, you're gonna laugh because

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Speaker 1: this doesnna make me sound so ridiculously pretentious. I'm actually

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Speaker 1: reading through War and Peace right now, and I'm reading

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Speaker 1: it as part of Jeremy Anderberg, who runs a Books

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Speaker 1: newsletter is doing what he calls the big Read, which

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Speaker 1: War in Peace has three hundred sixty one extremely short chapters,

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Speaker 1: so it's like pages but three d chapter so each

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Speaker 1: has four pages, so you can read a page a

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Speaker 1: chapter a day and read through it in the course

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Speaker 1: of a year. And so I have been reading one

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Speaker 1: extremely short chapter every day, so and I'm really enjoying

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Speaker 1: it because it's such a huge book. So you could

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Speaker 1: feel like, oh my gosh, I have to read through it,

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Speaker 1: or I'm only eighty pages in and so there's so

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Speaker 1: much to go, so I gotta rush. But because I

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Speaker 1: know it's only one chapter a day, I'm feeling much

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Speaker 1: more relaxed about it, so I can enjoy Tolstoy's ready

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Speaker 1: all like that. It's very yeah. It's almost like having

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Speaker 1: a roadmap, like you don't have to feel the pressure

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Speaker 1: of like how am I actually going to eat this elephant?

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Speaker 1: You know, like like you have all the bites laid

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Speaker 1: out for you, you know, throughout the year. So that's

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Speaker 1: a really yeah strategy. Hey, Lory, let's start talking about

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Speaker 1: working from home, because that is something that you've been

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Speaker 1: focused on recently, something that you've been writing about and

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Speaker 1: at the beginning of your most recent book, you discuss

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Speaker 1: the changes in working from home that happened specifically last spring.

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Speaker 1: We all remember how crazy it was in March of

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Speaker 1: last year, and uh, some of the stats were really interesting.

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Speaker 1: Working from home apparently doubled from March fifteenth to March thirty,

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Speaker 1: which is insane to think about how quickly that switch happened.

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Speaker 1: Employers employees both scrambling how things changed and how has

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Speaker 1: everyone adjusted to the work from home world in the

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Speaker 1: past ten months. Yeah, it has been such a huge

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Speaker 1: change and really accelerating probably decades of workplace change into

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Speaker 1: a span of about two weeks. And the survey you're

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Speaker 1: talking about, you know, Gallup had done a poll like

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Speaker 1: have you ever worked from home? And about a third

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Speaker 1: of Americans had said yes prior to March. By the

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Speaker 1: end of March, two thirds of Americans had ever worked

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Speaker 1: from home, So quite a huge jump in the span

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Speaker 1: of a few weeks. And what happened is that it

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Speaker 1: went from being this kind of nice work life balanced

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Speaker 1: perk um that would occasionally be doled out for somebody

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Speaker 1: who'd had a lot of experience at a company. You know,

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Speaker 1: you've been there ten years, maybe your manager will let

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Speaker 1: you work from home on Friday's right, and and even

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Speaker 1: so Friday because everyone no, Friday is the least productive

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Speaker 1: day that you're not actually doing. There's no opportunity costs

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Speaker 1: if you just stay home. They're assuming nothing's getting done.

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Speaker 1: And then all of a sudden, everyone's got to work

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Speaker 1: from home or else the business is going out of business.

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Speaker 1: And you know, it was amazing how many people figured

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Speaker 1: out that it was in fact possible. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: had business leaders taught me in the past like, oh,

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Speaker 1: working from home so interesting, future trend we should be

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Speaker 1: aware of. Of course, it would never work for us.

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Speaker 1: And it's like, well why, I mean, it's the way

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Speaker 1: you email people and call people so different from how

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Speaker 1: everyone else emails and calls people. And no, it wasn't.

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Speaker 1: When people had to work from home, they figured it out,

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Speaker 1: and in the first couple of weeks there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of awkwardness to it, a lot of really bad zoom

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Speaker 1: happy hours. But people have been figuring it out, and

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Speaker 1: I think that's good because in the long run, having

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Speaker 1: the option to work from home does allow people to

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Speaker 1: be happier, to be healthier, um in general, to be

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Speaker 1: more productive. There are definitely upsides from seeing each other

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Speaker 1: face to face, but you can do a lot not

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Speaker 1: face to face as well. So it's good to have

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Speaker 1: the whole mix of ways that it is possible to work. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: so yeah, kind of touching on that, you know, Like,

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Speaker 1: based on the survey stats, employees, they're very happy with

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Speaker 1: working for from home. They're very fond of it, and one,

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Speaker 1: you know, keep it up even when things do get

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Speaker 1: back to normal whenever that is. But like, yeah, employers

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Speaker 1: still are skeptical, you know, like they do. They do

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Speaker 1: see it as almost like the sci fi novel, you know,

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Speaker 1: where it's just like, oh, is this something we're going

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Speaker 1: to continue? I'm not totally sure, but should employers be worried?

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Speaker 1: You know, like, what are the benefits that employers are

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Speaker 1: actually realizing themselves? Well, there are definitely benefits to employers too.

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Speaker 1: There have been plenty of surveys finding that people who

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Speaker 1: were allowed to work from home in the past were

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Speaker 1: less likely to leave their employer because it was just

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Speaker 1: such a desired perk. Now, I don't know if that's

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Speaker 1: going to be so much the case anymore. Is more

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Speaker 1: and more places allow working from home because it's not

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Speaker 1: going to be such a rarity. But one of the

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Speaker 1: major benefits for employers is actually both on hiring talent

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Speaker 1: and on reducing real estate costs. You know, letting people

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Speaker 1: work from home on the occasional Friday doesn't really transform anything.

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Speaker 1: That is more about giving people a little bit of

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Speaker 1: a work life balance perk. But if you have people

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Speaker 1: distributed broadly, if your entire workforce is mostly virtual, the

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Speaker 1: upside is you can hire people from anywhere, and that

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Speaker 1: is a real benefit. It is hard to believe that

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Speaker 1: all of the best possible people who could work for

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Speaker 1: you live within an hour of your headquarters or could

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Speaker 1: easily move their entire lives and families to be within

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Speaker 1: an hour of your headquarters quickly. So you know, if

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Speaker 1: you don't require people to be in the office five

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Speaker 1: days a week, maybe if you require people to come

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Speaker 1: in one week a month, you could pretty much hire

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Speaker 1: from anywhere, which just vastly increases the pool of talent

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Speaker 1: you can hire from. If you do run a set

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Speaker 1: up where you bring teams to gather for a week

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Speaker 1: every month or two, you don't have to have a headquarters,

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Speaker 1: and that is a huge savings in terms of real estate.

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Speaker 1: You know, you just rent conference space for a week

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Speaker 1: every other month, and that is a lower cost. So

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Speaker 1: you know, it's it's gonna be harder for people to

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Speaker 1: get their heads around that as an idea, because that

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Speaker 1: is a huge transformation. People are still used to having

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Speaker 1: these big headquarters. But you see a lot of people

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Speaker 1: not signing their lease renewals right now because they're like, wait,

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Speaker 1: do we really need this many desks? Do we really

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Speaker 1: need this much space? Um? If people are going to

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Speaker 1: be working from home two to three weeks per month

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Speaker 1: and coming in one week per month, maybe we can

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Speaker 1: change things around a lot um and that just completely

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Speaker 1: changes your cost structure as a business. I mean similar

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Speaker 1: to people's personal finance. If suddenly you were only needing

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Speaker 1: a quarter of as much space, that would definitely change

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Speaker 1: your finances and it does for a business as well. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I don't envy people that own bigger office spaces these days,

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Speaker 1: you gauys. Um, Yeah, this transformation is going to be

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Speaker 1: hard in particular on those people. Right. Plus another perk too,

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Speaker 1: I guess if you're only meeting together like once every

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Speaker 1: month and once every two months, you could even like

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Speaker 1: maybe meet on a cruise line you know, like there's

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Speaker 1: lots of deals to be had there. I mean, nobody

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Speaker 1: says you have to have like conference space in some

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Speaker 1: beige hotel somewhere. To me, that sounds great, all right,

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Speaker 1: I'm looking forward to that. How do money cruise coming up? Um?

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Speaker 1: Speaking personal finances to Laura, A lot of individuals, of course,

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Speaker 1: saving a lot of time, which, of course, I know

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Speaker 1: you're a fan of working from home, But they're also

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Speaker 1: saving a lot of money by being able to work

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Speaker 1: from home too, which Matt and I are of course

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Speaker 1: fans of. How have you seen folks being able to

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Speaker 1: save more of their cash by not having you go

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Speaker 1: into the office. Well, there's all kinds of financial upsides

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Speaker 1: to staying put. You know, you're not spending money on

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Speaker 1: gas or public transportation, you aren't necessarily having as big

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Speaker 1: of dry cleaning bills, if you are wearing jeans instead

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Speaker 1: of dress pants and and formal shirts. You know, the

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Speaker 1: whole thing with feeding yourself. I know a lot of

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Speaker 1: offices have a bit of a culture that you go

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Speaker 1: out for lunch relatively frequently. If you are not doing that,

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Speaker 1: you're just you know, eating your leftovers from the night

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Speaker 1: before for lunch. Well, that's a huge saving. We love

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Speaker 1: leftovers around here to be great way to not have

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Speaker 1: food waste, to see that money go into your trash can.

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Speaker 1: So you know, it's just those expenses have been drastically

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Speaker 1: used and and there's all kinds of reasons that personal

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Speaker 1: savings rate have been going up, you know, including people

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Speaker 1: not taking those trips that they didn't those I hope

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Speaker 1: will come back. Um, but nobody likes commuting. I mean,

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Speaker 1: come on, that's just money going down the drain for

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Speaker 1: the most part. So um, if people are saving money

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Speaker 1: on gas or maybe realizing they don't need two cars,

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Speaker 1: that that can be a major benefit too, you know.

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Speaker 1: So like in your mind, lord, like, what are some

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Speaker 1: of the biggest changes that you see coming in the

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Speaker 1: in the coming months when it comes to working from home? Like,

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Speaker 1: obviously some companies are going to probably start asking their

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Speaker 1: employees to come back some but yeah, like, like, I

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Speaker 1: guess what are your predictions when it comes to working

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Speaker 1: from home? Well, I think a lot of organizations are

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Speaker 1: going to go through a real crucible over the next

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Speaker 1: few months of figuring out what of our work really

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Speaker 1: truly is done best face to face and what is not.

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Speaker 1: I think we've found in the pandemic that certain things

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Speaker 1: probably are better done face to face. I would argue

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Speaker 1: that elementary education is probably better and face your here,

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Speaker 1: but so much of our you know, office meetings. In fact,

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Speaker 1: being on zoom is is pretty good for what you're doing.

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Speaker 1: And somebody was always dialing in from somewhere else anyway,

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Speaker 1: So why not have everyone dial in and you know,

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Speaker 1: see each other's smiling faces on zoom. But we're going

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Speaker 1: to go through that decision making process over the next

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Speaker 1: six months. Is more people are vaccinated, as you know,

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Speaker 1: herd immunity kicks in and say well, what actually does

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Speaker 1: need to be done in person and what does not?

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Speaker 1: And different organizations are kind of come down in different

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Speaker 1: places on that question. But it won't be possible for

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Speaker 1: people to argue that a lot of knowledge work just

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Speaker 1: simply can't be done at home anymore. And we've we've

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Speaker 1: gone through this for the past ten months. People have

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Speaker 1: shown that they can get their work done, So it's

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Speaker 1: gonna be hard to make that argument now. I'm sure

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Speaker 1: some people are going to be like, well, you still

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Speaker 1: have to all come in even even if that's the case,

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Speaker 1: even if you were productive. But people will have more

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Speaker 1: options because they're gonna be plenty of employers who are

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Speaker 1: going to come down on a different side of I

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Speaker 1: think they will be more attractive in general for for

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Speaker 1: people who like that flexibility. Yeah, I think the genies

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Speaker 1: out of the bottle at this point, and with the

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Speaker 1: extended time we've had working from home, it's kind of

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Speaker 1: kind of hard to put it back in. So that's

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Speaker 1: definitely part of it, all right, And Laura, there obviously

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Speaker 1: to some distinct challenges to working from home. We want

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Speaker 1: to talk about how we overcome some of those as individuals,

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Speaker 1: and we'll get to some of our questions for you

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Speaker 1: on that right after this break. All Right, we're back

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Speaker 1: from the break talking with Laura Vanderkim about working from home. Uh, Laura,

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Speaker 1: we were just talking about how great working from home

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Speaker 1: can be, but you know, it does have its own

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Speaker 1: unique challenges and downsides as well, like distractions, And so

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Speaker 1: what have you found in your research about working from

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Speaker 1: home distractions? You know, is it easier or harder to

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Speaker 1: stay focused at home for most folks while they work.

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Speaker 1: So this is one of those things where I think

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Speaker 1: people a little victim to the grass is greener on

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Speaker 1: the other side, and people like, oh, there's so many

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Speaker 1: distractions working at home. Well, guess what, there were. There

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Speaker 1: were distractions working at the office. It's just we're not

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Speaker 1: experiencing those right now, so we have less of that.

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Speaker 1: You know, co workers stopping by to chat about things

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Speaker 1: that really aren't that urgent or important. Um, but you

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Speaker 1: know you feel bad batting them off. Um. You know,

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Speaker 1: people calling meetings because everyone's just there and you don't,

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Speaker 1: you know, have anything else to do. I guess, um.

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Speaker 1: At home, there are definitely distractions too, they tend to

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Speaker 1: be of a different sort. Um. Partly, it's that you

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Speaker 1: are in your house where various things happen, and and

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Speaker 1: things that need to happen productively, like emptying the dishwasher,

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Speaker 1: throwing the laundry in the machine, or taking out the

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Speaker 1: meat from the fridge for the freezer for dinner. And

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Speaker 1: so what can happen is people sit down to work

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Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, the thought pops into the

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Speaker 1: brain of oh, I need to take the meat out

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Speaker 1: of the freezer for dinner, and so they pop up

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Speaker 1: to go do it. And then while they're in the

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Speaker 1: kitchen they noticed that the dishes are sitting there and

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Speaker 1: next thing you know, twenty minutes have passed by, and

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Speaker 1: that was what could have been focused work times from

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Speaker 1: your boss. Yeah, well, if you're not being unproductive per say,

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Speaker 1: I mean the stuff maybe does need to be done,

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Speaker 1: but not right now, and and so that's really hard.

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Speaker 1: So when people have that, I encourage them to make

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Speaker 1: what I call a later list, so that if you

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Speaker 1: have set down to do focused work and something pops

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Speaker 1: into your brain, write it down on the later list.

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Speaker 1: And then when you are taking a break, you can

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Speaker 1: go check if the meat is out of the freezer,

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Speaker 1: or you know, move the laundry to the dryer, whatever

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Speaker 1: it is you need to do. But don't interrupt yourself

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Speaker 1: when you don't have to be now. Of course, there

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Speaker 1: are all sorts of interruptions that come from other people

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Speaker 1: in your house. Many people are trying to work with

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Speaker 1: young kids around, which is certainly not ideal. You know,

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Speaker 1: in the past, when when working from home was seen

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Speaker 1: as a bit more of just a work life balanced

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Speaker 1: PERKOT often get the question of like, oh, well, if

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna work from home, is this a good way

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Speaker 1: to save money on childcare? I would say no, it

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Speaker 1: is not a good way. To save money on childcare.

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Speaker 1: If you have young children who are too young to

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Speaker 1: be responsible for themselves, then you really can't be the

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Speaker 1: adult in charge of them during the hours you're trying

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Speaker 1: to do focused work, and nothing about the pandemic has

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Speaker 1: changed that. It just makes it more difficult to pull off.

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Speaker 1: So I have given a lot of advice over the

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Speaker 1: past ten months to come up with a real good schedule.

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Speaker 1: If you have two parents who are both trying to

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Speaker 1: work from home, who is in charge when and whatever

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Speaker 1: parent is on during any given time, their job is

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Speaker 1: not just keeping the kids safe, It is keeping the

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Speaker 1: kids out of the other party's hair so that they

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Speaker 1: can focus during those hours, knowing that it will then

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Speaker 1: be paid back to them in the other hours. And

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Speaker 1: you know, if you do this well, you can get

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Speaker 1: five to six hours a day where you're each trading

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Speaker 1: off for each other, So each of you working five

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Speaker 1: or six hours a day, and probably you can do

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Speaker 1: most of a full time job in that time if

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Speaker 1: it is well organized, and then you can do some

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Speaker 1: of the email checking at night or in times of

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Speaker 1: day when you are watching the kids play outside or

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Speaker 1: something like that. Um, If if you don't have a partner,

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Speaker 1: or your partner is unavailable for this for whatever reason,

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Speaker 1: maybe there's another adult you can trade off with. The

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Speaker 1: worst case scenario, you're gonna be using nap time, early

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Speaker 1: morning time, night after the kids go to bed. But

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Speaker 1: I advise Peel to just sort of recognize which time

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Speaker 1: is not going to be available and just decide to

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Speaker 1: be where you are, because if you are constantly going

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Speaker 1: back and forth between tending to a two year old

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Speaker 1: and trying to do your work, you're gonna feel frustrated,

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Speaker 1: You're gonna feel aggravated, you're gonna feel unhappy. Just decide, Okay,

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Speaker 1: now I'm with the two year old. I will get

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Speaker 1: to the stuff when the two year old is asleep,

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Speaker 1: or when I can give the two year old to

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Speaker 1: somebody else, and then you will feel much more calm.

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Speaker 1: One of the biggest differences between going into an office,

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Speaker 1: Laura and working from home is that a lot of folks,

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Speaker 1: of course, have like so much more autonomy over the

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Speaker 1: structure and flow of their days now, and there's a

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Speaker 1: good chance that there's room for improvement in how those

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Speaker 1: days are spent. Um And in your book you talk

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Speaker 1: about developing better rhythms for our days when we're working

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Speaker 1: from home. What does that look like to develop like

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Speaker 1: good rhythms, um in in that work from home day. Yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: working from home can be very flexible, so the days

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Speaker 1: don't have to look exactly the same. But I do

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Speaker 1: find that most people benefit from having some sort of

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Speaker 1: rhythm that allows them to set their most important tasks

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Speaker 1: at the time when they are best prepared to deal

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Speaker 1: with them. Like many people are more focused productive in

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Speaker 1: the morning. Um. And if you do have the ability

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Speaker 1: to work in the morning, then that might be a

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Speaker 1: great time to knock out that important task. Most people

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Speaker 1: need a few breaks during the course of the day,

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Speaker 1: and proactively planning those in during times when your energy

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Speaker 1: is going to dip will allow you to get more done. Um.

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Speaker 1: So if you know, like, okay, three pm, I'm going

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Speaker 1: to start feeling a little bit sluggish, I'm going to

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Speaker 1: find myself falling down internet rabbit holes where I'm you know,

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Speaker 1: reading posts on Facebook from people I never did like

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Speaker 1: in high school. Well, okay, then plan in a break

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Speaker 1: at that time, go outside to a walk something like that.

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Speaker 1: You'll come back in far more prepared to end the

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Speaker 1: day strong. And with that, you know, I think It's

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Speaker 1: also helpful for many people to figure out when the

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Speaker 1: day is over. One of the downsides of working from

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Speaker 1: home is having less of that demarcation between work life

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Speaker 1: and home life. You might be able to see your

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Speaker 1: laptop all evening, which for some people can be very

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Speaker 1: distressing because there's like there's things I could be doing

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Speaker 1: and I'm not doing them, and I feel bad. Um,

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Speaker 1: so figure out a way to indicate to yourself that

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Speaker 1: the day is over, at least for now, um, for

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Speaker 1: the next few hours. Maybe that's some sort of shutdown ritual,

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Speaker 1: a fake commute of walking around the block or walking

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Speaker 1: a dog, you know, writing tomorrow's to do list, calling

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Speaker 1: a colleague to say goodbye. But it's something to let

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Speaker 1: you know that it's okay, I can focus on other

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Speaker 1: things now. Um. I'm not saying you're going to be

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Speaker 1: off till the next morning, but but at least having

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Speaker 1: some break for a while. Yeah. Well, well, speaking you know,

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Speaker 1: of doing things at the end of the day, like

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Speaker 1: sometimes they can feel like that we've reached the end

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Speaker 1: of the work day and we're you know, we're not

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Speaker 1: totally what we've accomplished, you know, that day, And so

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Speaker 1: do you have any remedies there. Well, one of the

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Speaker 1: best things you can do is set yourself challenging but

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Speaker 1: doable tasks for any given day. Um. I think for

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Speaker 1: many people three to five is about the right number, um.

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Speaker 1: And you're measuring your day's productivity by getting those tasks done. Now,

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Speaker 1: other things will definitely come up. I'm not saying that

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Speaker 1: you know you're only going to do three things in

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Speaker 1: a day, but these are the three things that you've

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Speaker 1: identified that will make it a very good day. And

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Speaker 1: once you get through those, you can feel like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I have done an honest day's labor um. And so

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Speaker 1: then you feel a little bit better about signing off

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Speaker 1: for the evening because you're not saying they're saying, oh,

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure I did anything. Well, you know you

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Speaker 1: did something. You did these three things, and these were

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Speaker 1: three things that mattered and and so you can celebrate that.

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Speaker 1: There's some people even write what you might call like

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Speaker 1: a done list at the end of the day. Hopefully

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Speaker 1: that matches the to do list that you said at

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Speaker 1: the morning, but I'll probably have other things too that

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Speaker 1: came up, and that could be a real great way

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Speaker 1: to say, Okay, yeah, I am making progress. Um, you know,

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Speaker 1: I didn't go anywhere today. I just walked from my

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00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:08,320
Speaker 1: bedroom down to my office. And for some people that

431
00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:10,280
Speaker 1: can feel like I'm not doing anything, but I have

432
00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:12,440
Speaker 1: this list of things I've done, and so I can

433
00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:15,720
Speaker 1: feel good about that. Well. I think one other thing

434
00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:18,080
Speaker 1: when we're working from home, Laura, that comes up in

435
00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:20,040
Speaker 1: our minds is like, how do we keep advancing in

436
00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:21,840
Speaker 1: our career? Sometimes it feels like we're out of sight,

437
00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:24,840
Speaker 1: out of mind. Our boss isn't actually seeing what we're

438
00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:28,320
Speaker 1: producing or um, at least, it's just not as visually

439
00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:30,080
Speaker 1: appealing as maybe it was like when we were in

440
00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:32,440
Speaker 1: the office, and um, they don't hear our voice in

441
00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:34,840
Speaker 1: the same way. This might even be a problem that

442
00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:37,240
Speaker 1: that some people who are working from home maybe aren't

443
00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:39,680
Speaker 1: e been aware of yet. But how do people continue

444
00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:43,200
Speaker 1: to uh, let their superiors see the work that they're

445
00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:47,240
Speaker 1: doing and continue advancing in their careers when they're kind

446
00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:49,000
Speaker 1: of you know, you know, working in their pjs or

447
00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:51,800
Speaker 1: sweatpants from home. Yeah, well, this has probably been less

448
00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:53,560
Speaker 1: of an issue over the last ten months, given that

449
00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:56,760
Speaker 1: so many people are working from home, But if this

450
00:21:56,880 --> 00:21:59,120
Speaker 1: changes over the next few years, and you know, there's

451
00:21:59,119 --> 00:22:01,800
Speaker 1: more of a mix of in offices and working from home,

452
00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:05,119
Speaker 1: then definitely you want to remember that when people can't

453
00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:08,440
Speaker 1: see you, it's very easy for you to not be

454
00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:10,879
Speaker 1: in the front of their brains. And this is nothing

455
00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:14,680
Speaker 1: about you personally, it's just the way our brains have evolved.

456
00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:16,680
Speaker 1: Like if you didn't see anyone for a long time,

457
00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:19,320
Speaker 1: like you know, when we were living in small tribes

458
00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:22,040
Speaker 1: in one cave, like you know that that didn't bode well,

459
00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:24,480
Speaker 1: you probably didn't need to think about them anymore. So,

460
00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:27,200
Speaker 1: knowing that it's important to get your face in front

461
00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:30,400
Speaker 1: of people, so you know, ask for meetings chickens. If

462
00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:34,480
Speaker 1: your manager isn't already doing short one on one meetings

463
00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:36,520
Speaker 1: every week or two, ask for one so you know,

464
00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:38,439
Speaker 1: I want to talk through some ideas I have one

465
00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:39,679
Speaker 1: would be a good time for us to do that,

466
00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:42,080
Speaker 1: or I'd love to, you know, just shoot some ideas

467
00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:45,439
Speaker 1: together over lunch on Friday, like let's have a zoom

468
00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:48,840
Speaker 1: lunch or whatever. Um. And this also doesn't have to

469
00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:51,680
Speaker 1: be either or you can even if you are working

470
00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:54,399
Speaker 1: from home, if there is an in office component to

471
00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:57,360
Speaker 1: your organization, I would recommend coming in sometimes even if

472
00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:00,320
Speaker 1: a percent of your job could be done remotely. It's

473
00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:02,960
Speaker 1: always wise to show your face from time to time.

474
00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:05,800
Speaker 1: It doesn't have to be every day. UM, every day

475
00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:10,399
Speaker 1: is probably overkill, but showing your face reminds people that

476
00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:12,919
Speaker 1: you exist, um. And then you can send notes to

477
00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:15,439
Speaker 1: them reminding that you exist, rom ending them that you exist,

478
00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:18,080
Speaker 1: send notes to them saying what you've done, UM, come

479
00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:20,720
Speaker 1: up with you know, offered to do certain things that

480
00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:24,040
Speaker 1: are more social, like leading an office book club or

481
00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:28,000
Speaker 1: something like that. Doing those will help you be in

482
00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:30,800
Speaker 1: you know, the front of your manager's mind. But you know,

483
00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:33,480
Speaker 1: it's not just about your manager. We also need to

484
00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:37,159
Speaker 1: build a broad network that is outside or organizations. And

485
00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:40,480
Speaker 1: here I think remote workers can in fact have a

486
00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:43,959
Speaker 1: strategic advantage. Like when you work in an office and

487
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:47,160
Speaker 1: see the same people five days a week, you tend

488
00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:49,840
Speaker 1: to feel like your need to talk to other people

489
00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:53,800
Speaker 1: in your industry is satisfied by seeing these people, seeing

490
00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:56,360
Speaker 1: these colleagues day after day. I mean, hey, you're having

491
00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:58,800
Speaker 1: lunch with people in your industry all the time, and

492
00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:04,200
Speaker 1: that's fine until isn't. Like most jobs are not permanent anymore,

493
00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:07,920
Speaker 1: and if your organization goes through mass layoffs, like your

494
00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:10,000
Speaker 1: colleagues are actually not going to be that useful to you.

495
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:12,280
Speaker 1: You really need to build a broader network, and if

496
00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:15,800
Speaker 1: you're working remotely, you can do things like leave in

497
00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:17,880
Speaker 1: the middle of the day to go meet someone external

498
00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:20,720
Speaker 1: without people being like, hey, where's she going? Like why

499
00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:22,119
Speaker 1: are you leaving in the middle of the day, Why

500
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:23,639
Speaker 1: are you leaving at four o'clock? Why did you come

501
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:25,640
Speaker 1: in at ten o'clock today? I mean, there's such strong

502
00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:28,719
Speaker 1: time norms in offices that people tend not to do

503
00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:31,000
Speaker 1: these sorts of things. But when you're working from home,

504
00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:33,000
Speaker 1: that's less of an issue. So sure, yeah, you go

505
00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:36,680
Speaker 1: have coffee with somebody out external to your organization once

506
00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:38,560
Speaker 1: or twice a week. When we can do that again,

507
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:40,440
Speaker 1: you know, have zoom meetings right now with people who

508
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:43,639
Speaker 1: are external to your organization. You can do that in

509
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:47,600
Speaker 1: a way that is really helpful for your career long term. Nice. Yeah.

510
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:50,439
Speaker 1: You also mentioned to some specific ideas like joining a

511
00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:53,920
Speaker 1: mastermind group or like finding an accountability partner to foster

512
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:58,000
Speaker 1: feedback in regards to our careers. How important do you

513
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:00,000
Speaker 1: feel it is, you know, for people to to foster

514
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:03,359
Speaker 1: to peer accountability and to talk with these other folks

515
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:06,320
Speaker 1: I think it's so important. I mean really for all

516
00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:09,680
Speaker 1: our careers these days. I mean, people go through different

517
00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:13,119
Speaker 1: phases of their careers, are gonna work for different organizations.

518
00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:17,080
Speaker 1: Ideally everyone would have, you know, a manager and a

519
00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:20,280
Speaker 1: broader corporate organization that was trying to nurture your career

520
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:22,160
Speaker 1: and push you up the ladder. But I'm not sure

521
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:24,919
Speaker 1: how many people have that so much anymore. We have

522
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:27,320
Speaker 1: to be responsible for our own careers. And this is

523
00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:30,240
Speaker 1: particularly true as people move in and out of self employment,

524
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:33,199
Speaker 1: as people move through different organizations, and as more of

525
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:37,160
Speaker 1: us work remotely. Um so peer mastermind groups are great

526
00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:38,800
Speaker 1: for this. You have a group of people that you

527
00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:42,159
Speaker 1: meet with regularly who offer feedback on your career, who

528
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:44,240
Speaker 1: can say, well, here's an opportunity you might not have

529
00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:47,000
Speaker 1: known about, or have you thought about establishing yourself as

530
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:48,840
Speaker 1: an expert in this, or if you are an expert

531
00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:51,080
Speaker 1: in this, here's something you should be you know, doing

532
00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:54,639
Speaker 1: to showcase your work more broadly, just to have you know,

533
00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:56,879
Speaker 1: people thinking about this for you. We we don't come

534
00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:59,639
Speaker 1: up with all the great ideas ourselves. It helps to

535
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:02,280
Speaker 1: have other people thinking about these things too, So I

536
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:05,920
Speaker 1: would highly recommend finding a group of people who might

537
00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:07,760
Speaker 1: meet with you, and hey, now we can all do

538
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:09,280
Speaker 1: it on zoom, so they don't have to live near

539
00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:12,600
Speaker 1: you either. Very nice, awesome, Well, Laura, you know, these

540
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:14,199
Speaker 1: have been ways that we can respond to some of

541
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:17,360
Speaker 1: the downsides of working from home. We're gonna next talk

542
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:19,439
Speaker 1: about how we can be proactive, you know, when it

543
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:23,120
Speaker 1: comes to being more productive as we're working from home,

544
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:25,080
Speaker 1: and we'll get to all of that right after this break.

545
00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:36,080
Speaker 1: All right, we're back from great We're talking with Laura

546
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:38,640
Speaker 1: vander cam about how to be happier and more productive

547
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:40,520
Speaker 1: when working from home. In a minute, we're going to

548
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:42,840
Speaker 1: talk about meetings and how to make those more productive

549
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:44,920
Speaker 1: or potentially even have fewer of them in our lives.

550
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:48,280
Speaker 1: But Laura, let's specifically talk about productivity for a second.

551
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:52,080
Speaker 1: One specific insight that you relayed for managers of employees

552
00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:54,480
Speaker 1: who are now working from home is to manage according

553
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:57,400
Speaker 1: to tasks and not to time. What do you mean

554
00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:00,520
Speaker 1: by that and how does that like shift impact your

555
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:03,439
Speaker 1: ability to be productive? Yeah. Well, at the beginning of

556
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:07,000
Speaker 1: the pandemic, a lot of organizations were requiring people to

557
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:09,760
Speaker 1: check in on Slack at nine o'clock in the morning.

558
00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:13,000
Speaker 1: I guess to make sure people weren't going to be

559
00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:15,600
Speaker 1: watching Netflix all day. That was something I've heard about.

560
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:18,400
Speaker 1: A lot of people will just be watching Netflix all day,

561
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:20,800
Speaker 1: so I better make sure they're at their desks checked

562
00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:23,000
Speaker 1: in at nine o'clock in the morning. I think we're

563
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:24,880
Speaker 1: getting a little less of that now as people are

564
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:27,840
Speaker 1: developing a more mature understanding of what it means to

565
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:30,200
Speaker 1: work from home. But the truth is, when you're managing

566
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:33,040
Speaker 1: people who you can't see right in front of you,

567
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:36,720
Speaker 1: it's a little bit more challenging um to make sure

568
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:39,200
Speaker 1: that time is being used well. I mean, you're never

569
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:40,880
Speaker 1: sure of it even if you see them. I mean,

570
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:42,960
Speaker 1: for all you know, your employees are you know, reading

571
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:45,840
Speaker 1: headlines all day, even if they look productive at their cubicles.

572
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:48,679
Speaker 1: But when they're at home, there's even less sort of

573
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:51,520
Speaker 1: way to do that. So instead of thinking about time,

574
00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:54,320
Speaker 1: like are my employees at their desks for eight hours

575
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:56,639
Speaker 1: a day, we can think about that same thing we

576
00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:59,679
Speaker 1: talked about earlier three to five, challenging the doable tasks

577
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:02,239
Speaker 1: per so you can meet with your employees and say, well,

578
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:04,560
Speaker 1: what are you working on. Let's let's set together what

579
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:07,240
Speaker 1: your goals are for the day, or the week or

580
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:09,760
Speaker 1: the month, depending on how much flexibility there is within

581
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:13,800
Speaker 1: any given organization. And then you know, provide accountability at

582
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:15,120
Speaker 1: the end of the day, at the end of the week.

583
00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:18,040
Speaker 1: How did it go, What worked, what didn't um, What

584
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:21,080
Speaker 1: tasks were challenging to do, What took longer than you

585
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:23,040
Speaker 1: thought it would, what took less time than you thought

586
00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:25,520
Speaker 1: it would. How did it go? But if you keep

587
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:28,800
Speaker 1: setting these tasks together and then hold each other accountable

588
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:31,639
Speaker 1: for them, you know people are making progress. You know

589
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:34,239
Speaker 1: stuff is getting done, and you know that's true no

590
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:36,919
Speaker 1: matter how much time they are sitting at their desks,

591
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:39,840
Speaker 1: which for the vast majority of knowledge jobs is pretty

592
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:43,000
Speaker 1: much irrelevant. So okay, let's let's talk about like I

593
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:44,600
Speaker 1: guess the other side of the coin here then, right,

594
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:47,000
Speaker 1: you know, you're like you were talking about tasks over time,

595
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:49,960
Speaker 1: but in one episode last year you mentioned using a

596
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:52,760
Speaker 1: stop watch to track how long it actually takes to

597
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:56,440
Speaker 1: perform maybe some more annoying like small tasks. Right, do

598
00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:59,320
Speaker 1: you feel that that's kind of contradictory to kind of

599
00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 1: managing bite hask instead of kind of looking at the time.

600
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:04,880
Speaker 1: What benefit do we get from tracking the specific time

601
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:07,160
Speaker 1: that we spend on some of those items that we

602
00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:09,720
Speaker 1: that we want to accomplish. I think it's never a

603
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:12,960
Speaker 1: bad idea to know how much time things take, because

604
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:17,080
Speaker 1: this helps us establish what three to five challenging tasks

605
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:19,640
Speaker 1: can fit in a day. Like if you chose three

606
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:22,520
Speaker 1: tasks that each took six hours, well that wouldn't work.

607
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:26,200
Speaker 1: Um if you chose three tasks that each took five minutes,

608
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:29,160
Speaker 1: you know, you probably start feeling a little bored after

609
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:32,880
Speaker 1: a few days. The bark kind of low. So it

610
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:36,120
Speaker 1: does help to know how long things take, so you

611
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:39,920
Speaker 1: can set a good amount of tasks for any given day.

612
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:42,080
Speaker 1: And you know, people develop a pretty good sense of

613
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:45,040
Speaker 1: this over time. I mean hopefully after years of podcasting,

614
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:47,520
Speaker 1: you guys know roughly how long it takes to produce

615
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:51,120
Speaker 1: each episode, right or you know, finding guess how much

616
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:53,479
Speaker 1: back and forth needs to go on with that, or

617
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:56,040
Speaker 1: dealing with listener questions, how much time does it take

618
00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:59,640
Speaker 1: to choose the right ones for each episode? So so

619
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:02,440
Speaker 1: these are all repetitive tests that you develop a pretty

620
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:04,840
Speaker 1: good sense of how much time they take, and then

621
00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:08,560
Speaker 1: you can more accurately plan your workflow for any given day.

622
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:11,240
Speaker 1: Or in a given week when you know these things.

623
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 1: So it's not that time is the number one determinant

624
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:18,240
Speaker 1: of how much you're working. It's just that it's helpful

625
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:20,800
Speaker 1: for figuring out what is a doable amount of work

626
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:23,840
Speaker 1: for each day versus an undoable amount of work for

627
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:26,360
Speaker 1: each day. Right, yeah, I mean as it comes to

628
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:28,360
Speaker 1: our money, it's sort of like, I mean, before you

629
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:31,080
Speaker 1: set a budget, you need to track your your money, right,

630
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:32,920
Speaker 1: you need to track your expenses. Otherwise, if you set

631
00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:35,479
Speaker 1: out and make a budget at a thin air, well, uh,

632
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:37,560
Speaker 1: you know, like you said, maybe it's something that's just

633
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:41,200
Speaker 1: completely not plausible and you're going to completely blow that

634
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:43,000
Speaker 1: budget out of the water. But at the same time,

635
00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:45,880
Speaker 1: if you just are not ambitious enough, it's not going

636
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:48,840
Speaker 1: to be very challenging. Yet as the base in reality, yeah,

637
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:51,440
Speaker 1: it's I'm saying, oh, yeah, I want my family to

638
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:53,720
Speaker 1: spend a hundred dollars a month on groceries. It's like, well,

639
00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:58,680
Speaker 1: have you been in a grocery store, right right? What

640
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:02,800
Speaker 1: food costs not work? Um. Whereas if you know that

641
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:04,920
Speaker 1: your family spends a certain amount per month, then you

642
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:08,320
Speaker 1: can set a number that is reasonably near there. Um

643
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:11,960
Speaker 1: And and that will make everyone happier. Yeah, hey, let's

644
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:15,200
Speaker 1: talk about meetings for a second, Laura, that that is obviously, Um.

645
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:18,640
Speaker 1: Sometimes the bane of people's existence the work from home meetings,

646
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:21,040
Speaker 1: and there are a lot of them these days, it

647
00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:24,239
Speaker 1: feels like too. But one question that's on I think

648
00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:26,520
Speaker 1: I don't know at least Mattinney's mind, but maybe everybody's mind.

649
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:29,160
Speaker 1: Is the camera supposed to be on or off? And

650
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:31,959
Speaker 1: does it depend on the meeting? I think sometimes like

651
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:34,120
Speaker 1: that etiquette on that is, we just don't know what

652
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:37,160
Speaker 1: to do. I'm a big fan of having cameras on,

653
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:39,120
Speaker 1: at least for part of it. When we recorded this,

654
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:41,120
Speaker 1: we had our camera on at the beginning to say hello,

655
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:43,600
Speaker 1: because it's nice to see people's faces, and especially when

656
00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:48,200
Speaker 1: you are working remotely. Um, seeing another person's face reminds

657
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 1: us that they exist, reminds us that we're all happy

658
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:54,200
Speaker 1: to gather. Um. It really makes you feel like more

659
00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:57,160
Speaker 1: of a team. UM. So I like having them on.

660
00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:00,240
Speaker 1: I recognize that that can get long over the course

661
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:02,200
Speaker 1: of a day. So maybe there are certain meetings that

662
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 1: it's okay to, you know, turn it off. Maybe people

663
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 1: could even like go for a walk or multitask during it.

664
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:09,520
Speaker 1: But in general, if you're going to have a meeting,

665
00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:11,720
Speaker 1: I think you want to have a good meeting and

666
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:15,000
Speaker 1: you want the meeting to need to happen, And that

667
00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:17,719
Speaker 1: means it needs to be important enough that probably everyone

668
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:21,160
Speaker 1: needs to be sitting in one place fully focused on this,

669
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 1: unable to multitask, because if they can multitask, like why

670
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:27,600
Speaker 1: are they even on the call in the first place.

671
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:32,680
Speaker 1: So that means that the meeting needs a purpose. Um,

672
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:34,880
Speaker 1: what is going to change in the world as a

673
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:38,520
Speaker 1: result of this meeting taking place? The meeting needs an agenda,

674
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:41,680
Speaker 1: you know, how do we get ourselves to this place

675
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:44,600
Speaker 1: where the thing has changed in the world. It needs

676
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:48,040
Speaker 1: a very short invite list. Um, So the only people

677
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:50,720
Speaker 1: who are there are those who are necessary to make

678
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:53,760
Speaker 1: this thing change in the world. And everyone who is

679
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:56,800
Speaker 1: there is necessary for them to be there for every

680
00:32:56,840 --> 00:32:58,800
Speaker 1: minute of the time that they are on the call,

681
00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:01,960
Speaker 1: um every man. It needs to be mapped out not

682
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:04,880
Speaker 1: only what any presenters are doing, but what anyone else

683
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:08,840
Speaker 1: is doing. And if you plan meetings that well, like

684
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:11,200
Speaker 1: you just can't have that many of them. I mean, like,

685
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:13,160
Speaker 1: the only people who are going to have all day

686
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:15,560
Speaker 1: meetings of that variety are those who have a chief

687
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:17,840
Speaker 1: of staff who is setting this up for them. Like,

688
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:20,240
Speaker 1: if you haven't quite attained to that level yet, this

689
00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:22,760
Speaker 1: is naturally going to limit how many meetings you can have.

690
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:25,960
Speaker 1: And that's a good thing because if you're bothering to

691
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:29,520
Speaker 1: bring people to gather, you are exacting a time cost

692
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:31,800
Speaker 1: in the universe, and so you want to make sure

693
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:35,280
Speaker 1: that it is worth it that the results of bringing

694
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:39,800
Speaker 1: you together outweigh the time cost of having done so. Right. Well,

695
00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 1: you know, so, say you're you're an employee, you're just

696
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:46,040
Speaker 1: kind of like a peon. You don't get to determine this.

697
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:49,200
Speaker 1: You're not by the way, this meeting you have called

698
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:51,320
Speaker 1: does not appear to have a purpose. That's the thing's

699
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 1: going to be, Like Laura Vanderkamp told me. See what

700
00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:55,680
Speaker 1: they say, that's the thing. Yeah, Like, if you don't

701
00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:58,040
Speaker 1: have a ton of control over like what zoom meetings

702
00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:00,320
Speaker 1: you know you're being invited to, is there a way

703
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:03,040
Speaker 1: to push back on some of these unnecessary meetings? Like

704
00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:06,040
Speaker 1: how can you, I guess, point that meeting in the

705
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:08,759
Speaker 1: direction of good or maybe even suggest that you are

706
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:11,160
Speaker 1: not necessary at that meeting. Well, there's a couple of

707
00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:14,280
Speaker 1: things you can do. I mean, one is just baby steps,

708
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:18,400
Speaker 1: asking questions that can steer people towards this realization that

709
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:21,120
Speaker 1: maybe this meeting does not have to happen. So you

710
00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:22,799
Speaker 1: know clearly you can ask your manager. I want to

711
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:25,360
Speaker 1: make sure I'm well prepared. Can you share the agenda

712
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:27,319
Speaker 1: with me so I can prepare for each segment of

713
00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:31,279
Speaker 1: this meeting. It's like, oh yeah, what agenda? Well, I

714
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:33,200
Speaker 1: could draft one for you. Would you like me to

715
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:36,239
Speaker 1: draft an agenda for you? Then? Well, when you're doing that,

716
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:39,960
Speaker 1: you can make sure it's more focused than maybe somebody

717
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:42,839
Speaker 1: who who isn't thinking that way? You know who who

718
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:44,799
Speaker 1: else needs to be there? I want to make sure

719
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:47,279
Speaker 1: I've I've read up on everyone else who's there. Oh yeah,

720
00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:49,160
Speaker 1: I should probably make sure that everyone who's there it

721
00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:50,960
Speaker 1: needs to be there. I want to make sure that

722
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:52,960
Speaker 1: you know, coming out of this, I planned the appropriate

723
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:54,759
Speaker 1: amount of time for following up. What do you think

724
00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:58,279
Speaker 1: will be the outcome of this meeting? Just questions like

725
00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:00,520
Speaker 1: this which show that you're a hard worker. You're not

726
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:02,960
Speaker 1: trying to get out of anything. It's just you want

727
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:06,479
Speaker 1: to make sure that you're doing the best possible job.

728
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:08,560
Speaker 1: On this meeting, which is going to force people to

729
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:11,080
Speaker 1: ask the questions like, oh yeah, what are we doing

730
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:13,279
Speaker 1: at this meeting? Like what's supposed to happen in the

731
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:16,399
Speaker 1: course of our being here? Um? And when people get

732
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:19,400
Speaker 1: nudged to ask that question just in general, it makes

733
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:21,680
Speaker 1: things better. You know, as you get a little bit

734
00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:23,839
Speaker 1: more power, you can start ask questions at the end

735
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:26,319
Speaker 1: of meetings, like, guys, I'd love to, you know, make

736
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:28,720
Speaker 1: sure that we do our next meeting together even better.

737
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:30,799
Speaker 1: What do you guys think went well with this meeting?

738
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:33,399
Speaker 1: And what could we improve on? Well, that right there

739
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:36,240
Speaker 1: is going to nudge people to ask questions that will

740
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:39,319
Speaker 1: lead to better meetings over time. After after everyone just

741
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:40,960
Speaker 1: stares at you for a second and like blinks a

742
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:45,600
Speaker 1: few times. What wait, what we can improve This wasn't

743
00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 1: the most perfect meeting ever. I'm gonna say, that's just

744
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:50,880
Speaker 1: so much better, such a better way to respond than

745
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:53,360
Speaker 1: I've responded to meetings that stink where I'm just like,

746
00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:55,160
Speaker 1: I'm not going to be there. Man, this is you know,

747
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:57,759
Speaker 1: that's not a good way to handle it. So well,

748
00:35:57,800 --> 00:35:59,680
Speaker 1: you know, if you can do that, then you can

749
00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:03,680
Speaker 1: do that to uh Laura near the end of your book,

750
00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:05,600
Speaker 1: The New Corner Office, you you make a push for

751
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:08,920
Speaker 1: work life integration. What are your final thoughts on how

752
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:12,000
Speaker 1: to live a life where work in life aren't continually

753
00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:14,680
Speaker 1: at odds with one another? Because I think, you know,

754
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:16,920
Speaker 1: some of us have found in the new work from

755
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:19,440
Speaker 1: home environment that they're pushing against each other in so

756
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:22,719
Speaker 1: many ways. What are your best tips for how they

757
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:26,680
Speaker 1: kind of can seamlessly live together in harmony. Well, one

758
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:30,040
Speaker 1: thing to realize is that there probably is enough time

759
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:33,080
Speaker 1: for both. Um, there are a hundred sixty eight hours

760
00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:36,160
Speaker 1: in a week. So if somebody is working forty hours

761
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:38,360
Speaker 1: a week, which is a full time job, and sleeping

762
00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:41,080
Speaker 1: eight hours per night, which is fifty six hours per week,

763
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:43,960
Speaker 1: you still have seventy two hours for other things. So

764
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:46,120
Speaker 1: there is quite a bit of time for both full

765
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:50,040
Speaker 1: time work and really intense personal responsibilities too. And when

766
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:53,560
Speaker 1: you have that holistic view of the week, I think

767
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:56,720
Speaker 1: that makes any given movement seem a little bit less

768
00:36:56,760 --> 00:37:00,360
Speaker 1: fraud Like, oh, I'm, you know, answering emails at a

769
00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:02,359
Speaker 1: time that I could be doing something with my kids.

770
00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:03,959
Speaker 1: It's like, well, yes, but you'll also be doing something

771
00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:05,440
Speaker 1: with the kids at a time you could be answering

772
00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:08,080
Speaker 1: emails that will probably come out in the wash. And

773
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:10,800
Speaker 1: one of the reasons to track your time is to

774
00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:15,520
Speaker 1: see that that these tallies are probably okay. Um. You know,

775
00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:17,640
Speaker 1: maybe some people will track their time and see something

776
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:19,799
Speaker 1: is out of whack, in which case that's great, go

777
00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:22,359
Speaker 1: deal with it, um. But it can help you make

778
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:26,000
Speaker 1: sure that you're not telling yourself some some terrible, horrible

779
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:29,440
Speaker 1: narrative about how you're failing on all dimensions, because probably

780
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:32,560
Speaker 1: you aren't. The other upside of working from home is

781
00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:36,560
Speaker 1: just there's generally more time flexibility, and so you can

782
00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:39,879
Speaker 1: do things during the day that you wouldn't at an

783
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:43,279
Speaker 1: office as long as you make up the time. So,

784
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:47,480
Speaker 1: for instance, today I went to um one of my kids.

785
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:49,279
Speaker 1: It's one of my kid's birthday, and so I was

786
00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:52,839
Speaker 1: able to go to school, be out on the playground

787
00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:56,080
Speaker 1: like the other kids, came out in the class and

788
00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:57,879
Speaker 1: sat on a bench, and I read a story from

789
00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:00,759
Speaker 1: like the other side of the playground as we celebrated

790
00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:03,880
Speaker 1: his birthday, all masked and everything. But it was you know,

791
00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:05,560
Speaker 1: it was nice to still be able to do that,

792
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:07,359
Speaker 1: and you know, that's something would be hard to do

793
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:09,600
Speaker 1: if I was commuting an hour to an office and

794
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:12,800
Speaker 1: then like you know, I'm gonna come back for driving

795
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:15,080
Speaker 1: hour back to be there at eleven am. Now, of

796
00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:16,719
Speaker 1: course that means there are things that I didn't do

797
00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:18,600
Speaker 1: it at eleven a m. That I'll probably do later

798
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:20,960
Speaker 1: in the in the day. But that's fine. And you

799
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:23,120
Speaker 1: have that sort of flexibility when you work from home,

800
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:26,879
Speaker 1: and I encourage people to take advantage of it, Like

801
00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:29,160
Speaker 1: if you want to go somewhere in the middle of

802
00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:31,320
Speaker 1: the day, you want to go for a run, somewhere,

803
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:34,200
Speaker 1: like when it's light out during the winter, go do it.

804
00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:36,359
Speaker 1: Just work a little later or start working a little

805
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:38,319
Speaker 1: bit earlier. If you want to do something like have

806
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:42,000
Speaker 1: a longer lunch with your family, it's okay. Um, you

807
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:44,560
Speaker 1: can probably make up the time at some other point.

808
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:47,640
Speaker 1: And when you start to do things like this, you

809
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:50,840
Speaker 1: get to see that work in life don't have to

810
00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:53,960
Speaker 1: be at odds, that there are ways to give your

811
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:56,160
Speaker 1: best to both of them. And I think that's really

812
00:38:56,160 --> 00:39:00,759
Speaker 1: a much more happy way to approach life. Laura, this

813
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:04,000
Speaker 1: is also good. We really appreciate you coming on the

814
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:06,200
Speaker 1: show and just talking about working from home and just

815
00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:07,920
Speaker 1: kind of you know, some of these boundaries between life

816
00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:11,080
Speaker 1: and work. Where can our listeners go to learn more

817
00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:13,040
Speaker 1: about you and what you're up to. Yeah, we'll come

818
00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:16,680
Speaker 1: visit my website which is Laura Vandercam dot com. Um,

819
00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:18,480
Speaker 1: you can check out the new Corner Office, which is

820
00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:20,520
Speaker 1: an e book about working from home, or listen to

821
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:23,719
Speaker 1: my Before Breakfast podcast. Or since you guys have a

822
00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:26,880
Speaker 1: lot of readers who are interested in financial topics, I

823
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:29,200
Speaker 1: actually wrote a book a great many years ago called

824
00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:32,279
Speaker 1: All the Money in the World, which is about personal finance. UM.

825
00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:34,759
Speaker 1: Probably can't find it in bookstores now, but you might

826
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:36,719
Speaker 1: be able to get the e book online, so just

827
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:40,040
Speaker 1: check that out. Awesome. Nice. That's why we love you too, Laura,

828
00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:44,719
Speaker 1: because you're a personal finance nerd just like I. Gotta say, well,

829
00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:46,759
Speaker 1: thanks again for joining us, Laura. We really appreciate it.

830
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 1: Thanks for having me all right, Matt, that was such

831
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:52,239
Speaker 1: a great conversation with Laura Vandercam and so good. No

832
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:54,799
Speaker 1: wonder she's the guests that we're most interested in hanging

833
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:56,919
Speaker 1: out with and having a beer with, right, She's true.

834
00:39:57,080 --> 00:39:59,239
Speaker 1: Some of our guests we have actually hung out in

835
00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:01,279
Speaker 1: person and how beers with, But she is at the

836
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:03,239
Speaker 1: top of us. Yeah, when it comes to someone we've

837
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:05,840
Speaker 1: never met actually in real life. But we're gonna remedy

838
00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:08,359
Speaker 1: that soon. Maybe this year, just depends on how things

839
00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:10,759
Speaker 1: roll out with a vaccine. Right, totally. But what was

840
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:13,319
Speaker 1: your big takeaway from our conversation with her? Well, all right,

841
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:16,279
Speaker 1: Laura mentioned a lot of great tips, a lot of

842
00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:19,000
Speaker 1: great things that we can implement into our lives. But dude,

843
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:21,480
Speaker 1: when she was talking about when it comes to meetings,

844
00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:23,480
Speaker 1: how it is that we can make sure that we

845
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:28,160
Speaker 1: are even necessary at those meetings by asking questions, probing questions,

846
00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:30,600
Speaker 1: like all right, like you know, maybe how how long

847
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:32,480
Speaker 1: is this meeting gonna last? Who I was gonna be there? What? What?

848
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:35,319
Speaker 1: What are the objectives of this meeting? Going into it?

849
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:38,839
Speaker 1: Like leaning into that meeting instead of leaning back. Not

850
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:42,520
Speaker 1: only obviously like the optics, the optics that it looked great, right,

851
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:45,040
Speaker 1: because you're being proactive and you're being a team member

852
00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:47,040
Speaker 1: here and you're trying to make everything better, but also

853
00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:49,440
Speaker 1: in the process you might be able to determine that

854
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:52,719
Speaker 1: you aren't actually necessary. Maybe you've created the agenda for

855
00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:55,440
Speaker 1: that meeting. Make yourself obsolete. Yeah, but but in a

856
00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:58,400
Speaker 1: good way, right, Like I want to make myself obsolete

857
00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:00,480
Speaker 1: when it comes to to certain meetings that I'm not

858
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:02,839
Speaker 1: required to be at, right uh, And so I really

859
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:05,480
Speaker 1: like that approach because it's it's a there's a twofold win.

860
00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:07,920
Speaker 1: It's gonna make the meeting more productive, and there's a

861
00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:10,200
Speaker 1: good chance you may not actually be necessary in that meeting,

862
00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:11,880
Speaker 1: which would then allow you to spend the time on

863
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:13,680
Speaker 1: the things that you actually need to do in order

864
00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:16,240
Speaker 1: to get your work done. I really liked her perspective

865
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:18,160
Speaker 1: on that. Yeah, yeah, what about you, man, what was

866
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:20,160
Speaker 1: your big takeaway that was good? Now, there was a

867
00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:22,239
Speaker 1: lot of good stuff in this conversation. I think, Um,

868
00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:24,759
Speaker 1: there are a couple of things. It's obviously really hard

869
00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:26,759
Speaker 1: to narrow it down. I love one of the things

870
00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:28,800
Speaker 1: that Laura said about having the holistic view of the

871
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:30,640
Speaker 1: week when you think about it in a hundred sixty

872
00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:33,000
Speaker 1: eight hours, as opposed to boiling it down to well,

873
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:35,200
Speaker 1: I've got just you know, six seven eight hours. However

874
00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:37,440
Speaker 1: long your work day is, uh, nine ten, I don't

875
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:40,440
Speaker 1: know how long you're working, but it's just easier to

876
00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:42,839
Speaker 1: lay out your week and to get all the things

877
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:45,239
Speaker 1: you want to get accomplished. When you're thinking about it

878
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:47,440
Speaker 1: on that scale as opposed to a twenty four hour

879
00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:49,440
Speaker 1: scale where you're like, I'm sleeping this time, I'm kind

880
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:51,279
Speaker 1: of trying to get this done. It just feels like

881
00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:53,120
Speaker 1: you can actually have the week you want, whereas it

882
00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:54,920
Speaker 1: doesn't always feel like you can have the day you want.

883
00:41:55,239 --> 00:41:56,799
Speaker 1: And and one of the other things inside of that

884
00:41:56,800 --> 00:41:59,120
Speaker 1: that you mentioned was to take advantage of the flexibility

885
00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:01,360
Speaker 1: that work from home offers. I think, Um, that is

886
00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:03,920
Speaker 1: something that I don't know it is in particular, depending

887
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:05,719
Speaker 1: on your personality type, you might have a hard time

888
00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:08,680
Speaker 1: doing that giving yourself a break during the day, um,

889
00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:10,640
Speaker 1: going out for a run in the afternoon when in

890
00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:12,960
Speaker 1: the middle of the day when it's the warmest. But

891
00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:15,480
Speaker 1: that might be the perfect thing to keep you motivated

892
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:17,680
Speaker 1: through the rest of the work day. And that is

893
00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:19,279
Speaker 1: one of the perks of working from home, So let's

894
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:21,520
Speaker 1: take advantage of it to a certain degree. That doesn't

895
00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:23,040
Speaker 1: mean not doing the work you're supposed to do, but

896
00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:25,160
Speaker 1: it does mean realizing some of the benefits to work

897
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:28,200
Speaker 1: from home offers, and I think flexibility is at the

898
00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:30,399
Speaker 1: top of that list. Nice man, Well, yeah, I agree,

899
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:32,320
Speaker 1: that's that was a great one. As well. Let's go ahead,

900
00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:34,719
Speaker 1: shift gears. Let's talk about the beer we enjoyed on

901
00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:37,880
Speaker 1: this episode. You and I we shared a science and

902
00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:42,520
Speaker 1: sorcery and this is a collaboration between Equilibrium and Electric

903
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:46,200
Speaker 1: Brewing Company. What were your thoughts on this, hazy I

904
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:48,160
Speaker 1: p A. All Right, So what I wrote down when

905
00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:50,920
Speaker 1: I had my first couple of SIPs was concentrated hop

906
00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:57,200
Speaker 1: monster and this was like just ridiculous in its hop levels.

907
00:42:57,400 --> 00:43:00,640
Speaker 1: And I think, um people might be to know. I

908
00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:03,160
Speaker 1: think I think I spent a four pack of this beer.

909
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:06,480
Speaker 1: It's very expensive, but it is so delicious. I understand

910
00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:11,000
Speaker 1: why it's worth every dollar. These breweries put like three

911
00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:13,120
Speaker 1: or four times the hot levels and then most do

912
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:15,600
Speaker 1: breweries do into an I p A. It was truly

913
00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:18,480
Speaker 1: hop juice and it was worth the money. I'll say

914
00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:21,120
Speaker 1: that this is really really good. Yeah, man, I'm with you.

915
00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:24,680
Speaker 1: You mentioned concentrated flavors, and yeah, I feel like they

916
00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:27,960
Speaker 1: could not have packed more flavor into this beer. Uh.

917
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:29,799
Speaker 1: And I'm not sure if we mentioned it earlier on,

918
00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:31,600
Speaker 1: but this is a double dry hop triple I p A.

919
00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:33,680
Speaker 1: And so there is just a ton of flavor packed

920
00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:35,880
Speaker 1: into this beer. It's almost like a like a distilled

921
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:37,719
Speaker 1: down version of a of a regular I P A

922
00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:41,120
Speaker 1: but then with a bunch of other flavors and other

923
00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:43,120
Speaker 1: hot flavors jammed in there as well. This is a

924
00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:44,799
Speaker 1: really fantastic beer. I'm glad this is one that you

925
00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:46,479
Speaker 1: and I got to share. It looks like these guys

926
00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:48,640
Speaker 1: are out of Middletown, New York, so if you're up

927
00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:50,439
Speaker 1: that way, be sure to look these guys up. But Joel,

928
00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:52,279
Speaker 1: that's gonna be it for this episode. Buddy listeners can

929
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:53,880
Speaker 1: find our show notes up on our website at how

930
00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:55,880
Speaker 1: to money dot com. We'll make sure to link to

931
00:43:55,920 --> 00:43:58,280
Speaker 1: laura site or you can learn more about her. Until

932
00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:00,920
Speaker 1: next time, best Friends Out, Best Friends Out,