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Speaker 1: Last time on ear witness.

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Speaker 2: We knew the reward was offered because it was all

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Speaker 2: over the papers, but we didn't know who got it

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Speaker 2: or if IoLET Ellison got it.

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Speaker 3: She was a very credible witness. We believed her. Obviously,

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Speaker 3: we believed her because we convicted him, and it was

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Speaker 3: on her testimony.

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Speaker 4: When I showed up at her house, she said I

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Speaker 4: didn't get a reward.

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Speaker 5: I was like, oh, well, that's funny. I was like,

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Speaker 5: I have some paperwork here that says you got a reward.

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Speaker 2: We got an email that said we found these documents.

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Speaker 2: They had been misfiled and here they are.

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Speaker 1: Does that sound strange to you or do you have

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Speaker 1: any idea how that could.

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Speaker 6: Have happened.

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Speaker 5: AG's office.

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Speaker 7: They said he got misfiled, and I guess it got

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Speaker 7: misfiled error.

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Speaker 4: I guess, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that your impression of her would have

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Speaker 1: been different had you known she was being paid five

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Speaker 1: thousand dollars.

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Speaker 3: I definitely believe we would have as a jury talked

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Speaker 3: about that, like how credible is this testimony? She's being

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Speaker 3: paid for it?

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Speaker 8: Like I had never been in trouble a day in

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Speaker 8: my life ever before the end. I'm going to jail.

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Speaker 8: And I've never been in jail to day in my

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Speaker 8: life ever, ever, ever, never had got any trouble anything.

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Speaker 1: I'm sitting on the couch in a tiny one bedroom

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Speaker 1: apartment in Birmingham. It's warm outside. The door is open

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Speaker 1: to let in a breeze. I'm talking with Marika Wilson,

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Speaker 1: who's telling me and my producer Mara about a defining

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Speaker 1: experience of her life being charged with attempted murder in

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Speaker 1: nineteen ninety seven when she was twenty years old, a

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Speaker 1: crime she did not commit. The crime happened late at

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Speaker 1: night when one woman and two men tried to rob

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Speaker 1: a man in Birmingham. They broke into his house and

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Speaker 1: shot him. He almost died. Marika was accused of being

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Speaker 1: the woman who participated in the crime, but she says

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Speaker 1: she wasn't there. It was someone else.

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Speaker 8: Albun tatno plead. They offered me twenty two years of

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Speaker 8: my life for something that I didn't even do, and

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Speaker 8: I said no. I fought to the bitter end.

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Speaker 1: A jury found Marika not guilty, but the ordeal left

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Speaker 1: life long scars.

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Speaker 8: It has still just bothered me all these years about

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Speaker 8: what I went through. You know what I'm saying. Every

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Speaker 8: time I applied for a job, even though I was

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Speaker 8: a quitty I couldn't get a job, a decent job

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Speaker 8: to take care of my kids. I lost my place.

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Speaker 8: I didn't have a shirt to put on my back.

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Speaker 8: Then I lost custody of my kids behind that. I

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Speaker 8: was up against all type of odds in that situation,

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Speaker 8: something that I didn't even do. But she, she did,

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Speaker 8: not that woman stick it up there and say she's

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Speaker 8: seen me.

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Speaker 1: The woman Marika is referring to is the witness who

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Speaker 1: testified against her, a neighbor of the victim, who said

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Speaker 1: she'd seen the crime unfold from her living room window

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Speaker 1: at two am. She told the jury she saw Marika

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Speaker 1: and two other people break down the victim's door and

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Speaker 1: assault him. The woman's name Violet Ellison. So do you

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Speaker 1: remember Violet Ellison.

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Speaker 8: I remember her getting up there saying she's seen me

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Speaker 8: through the window. She was wrong, she was wrong, Yes, ma'am,

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Speaker 8: it wasn't me. They discredited her at my trial. They

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Speaker 8: made her look horrible. I remember her like she just

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Speaker 8: got up there and pointed at me.

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Speaker 1: Marika's attorneys showed the jury that Violet Ellison's view from

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Speaker 1: her living room window was blocked by a tree. There

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Speaker 1: was no possible way she could have seen Marika or

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Speaker 1: anyone else on her neighbor's porch.

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Speaker 5: So she was a big part of the case against.

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Speaker 4: You, and she.

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Speaker 8: Led under oath, literally literally lied under oath.

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Speaker 1: Violet Ellison testified against Marika less than four months after

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Speaker 1: she served as the star witness against to Forrest Johnson.

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Speaker 1: Their trials happened in the same year, in the same courthouse,

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Speaker 1: prosecuted by the same DA's office. In both cases, Violet

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Speaker 1: Ellison knew the victim, spoke to detectives, and became a

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Speaker 1: lead witness. Marara and I find ourselves in Marika Wilson's

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Speaker 1: living room a few weeks after I made a lucky

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Speaker 1: discovery in Alabama's database of online court records. One afternoon,

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Speaker 1: I'm sitting in my office poking around in the database.

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Speaker 1: It's a clunky website with all these different drop down menus.

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Speaker 1: I'm running searches on Violet Ellison's name, trying her name

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Speaker 1: in a bunch of different ways, getting the same results.

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Speaker 1: When all of a sudden, I hit enter and boop,

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Speaker 1: a new list pops up criminal cases all naming Violet

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Speaker 1: Ellison as a state's witness. So, in addition to t

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Speaker 1: Forest's case, I discover that Violet Ellison has been a

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Speaker 1: witness for the state in four other criminal cases. Marika

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Speaker 1: Wilson was the first person that we tracked down who

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Speaker 1: Violet Ellison had testified against. When I first called Marika,

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Speaker 1: I told her about the four other cases Violet was

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Speaker 1: involved in as a witness. Right, we know of five

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Speaker 1: different criminal cases.

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Speaker 8: Is these folks convicted because of her?

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Speaker 1: Several of them?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 8: Oh wow, oh wow, Oh man, y'all need to help

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Speaker 8: them people, because she's not credible. I said that to

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Speaker 8: my husband about that woman. I said, baby, he said,

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Speaker 8: this woman don't been involved in several cases, Like is

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Speaker 8: she on a payroll or something? It just sounds like

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Speaker 8: something crooked going on with me, because how does she

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Speaker 8: keep popping up in all these serious cases and being witnesses?

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Speaker 8: Like that's that don't sound right, I'm sorry, it doesn't.

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Speaker 4: Wow.

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Speaker 8: And the boy on deth rol because of this lady,

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Speaker 8: Oh wow, it's something going on with that, y'all.

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Speaker 1: In order to believe and to forrest Johnson's conviction, you

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Speaker 1: have to believe that Violet Ellison was truthful when she

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Speaker 1: said that she overheard to Forrest talk about killing Deputy Hardy,

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Speaker 1: that she wasn't after the reward money because she didn't

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Speaker 1: know about it. You have to believe that Violet Ellison

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Speaker 1: is credible. So we need to know everything we can

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Speaker 1: about Violet Ellison because without her, without her credibility, there

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Speaker 1: is no case against to Forrest Johnson.

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Speaker 6: Do you hear my maness laugh? Hads my susay bly

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Speaker 6: is in this day o tears. I want to see revelation.

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Speaker 8: I want to know who you are.

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Speaker 5: I'm reation.

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Speaker 6: In thisspiration to the world. Who's holding star.

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Speaker 4: To the.

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Speaker 6: Who's holding the stand?

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Speaker 1: I'm Beth Shelburn. This is ear witness, Chapter seven MESSI.

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Speaker 1: In January of twenty twenty two, Mara and I start

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Speaker 1: trying to track down the other people Violet Ellison testified against.

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Speaker 1: We spend a lot of time in my car full days.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes I pack mom snacks, healthy stuff like hummus and

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Speaker 1: baby carrots, raw almonds, maybe a diet doctor pepper on

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Speaker 1: a hard day. Marika was the first person we were

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Speaker 1: able to find. The second case that listed Violet Ellison

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Speaker 1: as a witness was a second degree assault between two

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Speaker 1: men who got in a fight. The case ended in

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Speaker 1: a plea deal, so she never actually testified. We weren't

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Speaker 1: able to figure out exactly why she was listed as

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Speaker 1: a witness. We tried very hard to talk to the

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Speaker 1: man charged in the case, but never could reach him.

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Speaker 1: And then there was the third case. It involved a

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Speaker 1: local pastor named Bishop James Johnson, who was accused of

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Speaker 1: inappropriately touching and kissing three teenaged girls at his church

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Speaker 1: run school in nineteen ninety three. Violet Ellison was a

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Speaker 1: school employee who testified about the alleged abuse, but Bishop

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Speaker 1: Johnson maintained he was falsely accused and that Violet Ellison

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Speaker 1: was lying. The charges against him were eventually dropped by

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Speaker 1: the state. We talked to Bishop Johnson, who's now in

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Speaker 1: his late eighties, at his house in a suburb of Birmingham,

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Speaker 1: and he told us Violet Ellison made up the accusations

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Speaker 1: in an effort to get rid of him because she

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Speaker 1: wanted to run the school.

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Speaker 5: Yes, she was a part of my church. She was

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Speaker 5: a liar.

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Speaker 1: We talked to one other school employee who corroborated what

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Speaker 1: Bishop Johnson told us that Violet Ellison made up the allegations.

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Speaker 1: I tried to find some of the alleged victims in

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Speaker 1: this case, but I wasn't able to track them down.

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Speaker 1: Bishop Johnson said he's forgiven Violet Ellison.

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Speaker 5: That's over.

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Speaker 3: Thank God for over.

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Speaker 5: I have nothing to holler against her. I forgave her

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Speaker 5: every that I was told.

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Speaker 8: I'm free.

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Speaker 1: But he said she is not a trustworthy person.

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Speaker 2: I'll trust her, she's a personal trusts.

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Speaker 1: George Holloway is the next person on our list of

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Speaker 1: people that bulet Ellison testified against. What we know from

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Speaker 1: court records is this. Between two thousand and eight and

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Speaker 1: twenty sixteen, George Holloway was charged in several domestic violence

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Speaker 1: incidents involving his girlfriend. But unlike Marika Wilson and Bishop

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Speaker 1: James Johnson, George Holloway pleaded guilty to his charges, which

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Speaker 1: included violating a protective order twice. He was sentenced to

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Speaker 1: three years in prison. The documents don't show why Violet

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Speaker 1: Ellison was a witness against George Holloway. So Mara and

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Speaker 1: I get in the car and drive around for hours

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Speaker 1: knocking on doors with a list of possible home addresses

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Speaker 1: with no luck. I need to turn around. Finally, we

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Speaker 1: pull up to the last address on our list around Sunset,

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Speaker 1: a small brick house, and bessemer.

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Speaker 8: We're here.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's always a gamble, but we'll just give

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Speaker 1: it a whirl. At the same time, a truck stops

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Speaker 1: at the top of the house's driveway. Can you are

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Speaker 1: we blocking you? And out hops a man wearing grass

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Speaker 1: stained work clothes and a neon green shirt. Are you

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Speaker 1: going to this house we're looking for mister George Holloway.

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Speaker 1: Is that you? That's okay, George, I'm sorry to show

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Speaker 1: up here like this. We are journalists and we are

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Speaker 1: working on a story about a case. And I launch

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Speaker 1: into a spiel about what we're up to, and George

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Speaker 1: Holloway listens quietly as we stand next to his mailbox.

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Speaker 1: You and so we're trying to get information on her.

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Speaker 1: Her name's Violet Ellison. Do you know her? Do you

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Speaker 1: have an opinion about her? Or have any any information

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Speaker 1: that you could give us about her?

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Speaker 9: I know she's very corendicted.

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Speaker 4: She's I like to be involved in a lot of

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Speaker 4: stuff that doesn't involve her. She's very She's a very

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Speaker 4: messy lady, very messy.

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Speaker 1: George Holloway invites us into his living room to talk

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Speaker 1: more about his relationship with Violet Ellison.

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Speaker 9: She's not a reliable person that you would trust, that

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Speaker 9: you will put your faith in. And I would tell anybody,

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Speaker 9: whatever you have to say, do not say it in

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Speaker 9: front of her, because it's going to get turned totally backwards.

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Speaker 9: It's not gonna be said the way that you said.

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Speaker 9: My opinion, stay away from that woman because she's troubled.

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Speaker 1: He tells us that he met Violet Ellison through his

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Speaker 1: ex girlfriend. It gets a little complicated, but it's like this,

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Speaker 1: George Holloway used to date a woman we'll call Sharon.

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Speaker 1: Before she was with George, Sharon dated Violet Ellison's son,

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Speaker 1: Reginald Smith, who's known as Red. George tells us that

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Speaker 1: when Sharon broke up with Red, she remained friends with

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Speaker 1: Violet Ellison, but he tells us Violet Ellison wanted Sharon

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Speaker 1: and her son Red to get back together, and she

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Speaker 1: thought George was in the way. George admits that he

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Speaker 1: and Sharon had a volatile relationship and because of that,

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Speaker 1: Sharon had a protective order against him. He says that

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Speaker 1: one night he and Sharon had an argument in person,

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Speaker 1: violating the protective order. George says he left after the

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Speaker 1: argument and Sharon called police, but Violet Ellison later testified

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Speaker 1: that she heard and saw the whole thing firsthand.

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Speaker 9: She has said that you know she was there, she

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Speaker 9: witnessed it, but she was not there. She showed up

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Speaker 9: after everything had happened, and the pulviase was there on

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Speaker 9: the scene.

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Speaker 1: George tells us he decided to plead guilty to breaking

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Speaker 1: Sharon's protective order to wash his hands of the whole situation.

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Speaker 1: He says he hasn't seen Sharon, Violet Ellison, or her

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Speaker 1: son read in years. George admits to physical fights with Sharon,

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Speaker 1: but it seems like his descriptions of these fights minimize

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Speaker 1: the violence. We know there is another side to the story,

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Speaker 1: but Sharon doesn't respond to our interview requests. I tell

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Speaker 1: George about Violet Ellison's involvement into Forrest Johnson's conviction and

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Speaker 1: the five thousand dollars reward she was paid in secret.

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Speaker 9: She would do anything possible that she can if money

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Speaker 9: is involved, even go to this extent.

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Speaker 1: To lie, But he says Violet Ellison has an even

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Speaker 1: stronger motivation than money. Her son read.

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Speaker 9: She would do anything possible, anything and go to any

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Speaker 9: extent to keep us son out of trouble.

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Speaker 1: Multiple sources tell me that Red is a longtime drug user,

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Speaker 1: and court records show that he's been in and out

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Speaker 1: of jail. George says that Violet Ellison enabled her son.

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Speaker 9: She would come up for him, whether he was right

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Speaker 9: of whether he was wrong. You know, she knew he

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00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:18,359
Speaker 9: was doing things out there in the street. But you

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00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:21,440
Speaker 9: know if the police come, she would lie and say

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Speaker 9: he's not there. You know, she would give police's informations

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Speaker 9: leading to drug buses, people that don't dead, robberies, and

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Speaker 9: favor for them to drop charges against Reginald, get the

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00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:43,320
Speaker 9: charges downgraded, you know, to keep him from going to jail.

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Speaker 1: I leave the interview with George Holloway wondering could Red's

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Speaker 1: legal issues have motivated Violet Ellison to get involved with police?

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00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:06,840
Speaker 1: Was she after leniency for her son. A search of

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00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:10,840
Speaker 1: public court records shows that Red has a lengthy list

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00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:15,240
Speaker 1: of misdemeanor and felony convictions on his record going back

261
00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:19,120
Speaker 1: to nineteen eighty But I checked with the Alabama Department

262
00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:22,359
Speaker 1: of Corrections and they have no record of him ever

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00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:26,359
Speaker 1: serving time in prison. This tracks with what one of

264
00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:31,160
Speaker 1: Violet Ellison's neighbors told me that Red is often in trouble,

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00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:37,679
Speaker 1: but he's like Teflon, nothing sticks. For example, in nineteen

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Speaker 1: ninety seven, Red was charged with robbery and theft when

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00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:46,040
Speaker 1: he stole five watches from a department store. He pleaded

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00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:50,919
Speaker 1: guilty and was sentenced to fifteen years in prison, but

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00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:55,480
Speaker 1: then the judge amended read sentence and granted him probation

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00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:59,800
Speaker 1: instead of prison time. But there's no information about why

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00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:04,040
Speaker 1: his sentence was downgraded. And this happened less than a

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00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:09,080
Speaker 1: month before the start of to Forrest's second trial. That

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00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:13,760
Speaker 1: timing gets my attention. I wonder if it's possible that

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00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:18,560
Speaker 1: Violet Ellison testified into Forrest's case in exchange for preferential

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00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:23,760
Speaker 1: treatment for her son, But on further examination, that seems

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00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:27,639
Speaker 1: like a long shot. The charges against Red in nineteen

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00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:31,600
Speaker 1: ninety seven were in Bessemer, not Jefferson County, where to

278
00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:36,800
Speaker 1: Forest was tried, with different prosecutors and judges. But I

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00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:40,439
Speaker 1: do know that Violet Ellison was involved in her son's

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00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:46,320
Speaker 1: criminal defense in a two thousand and seven burglary case.

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00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:51,520
Speaker 1: Records show that Red's attorney met with the defendant and

282
00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:57,359
Speaker 1: his mother for three hours in two separate meetings. Red

283
00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:04,640
Speaker 1: pleaded guilty in that case and got probation. Is read

284
00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:08,440
Speaker 1: getting preferential treatment because his mother has been a witness

285
00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:13,760
Speaker 1: for the state in multiple cases. I find no documentation

286
00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:18,320
Speaker 1: to support this, But then again, are deals like that

287
00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:50,240
Speaker 1: ever spelled out in court records? While looking through Red's files,

288
00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:54,280
Speaker 1: I notice an especially violent assault and battery from nineteen

289
00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:58,879
Speaker 1: ninety four he was sentenced to supervised probation. I was

290
00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:01,639
Speaker 1: able to dig up at court of the incident, in

291
00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:06,000
Speaker 1: which police say Red spits on a woman, grabs her

292
00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:09,920
Speaker 1: by the neck and hair, and pulls her around a room.

293
00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:14,560
Speaker 1: A child is listed as a witness. The victim's name

294
00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:18,280
Speaker 1: is Anita Davis, and her most likely addresses are all

295
00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:22,719
Speaker 1: in central Georgia. So Mara and I get back in

296
00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:26,320
Speaker 1: the car and make the four hour drive to try

297
00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:34,399
Speaker 1: to find her. Hi, we're looking for Anita Davis.

298
00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:36,920
Speaker 5: She passed away. Oh, I'm so sorry.

299
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:38,240
Speaker 8: Are you her daughter?

300
00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:40,119
Speaker 5: My name is Beth.

301
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:44,639
Speaker 1: This is Marra. We are writers and we're working on

302
00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:48,640
Speaker 1: a story about the wrongful conviction, and we're reaching out

303
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:51,520
Speaker 1: to people that may know that the witness. Her name

304
00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:52,600
Speaker 1: is Violet Ellison.

305
00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:58,000
Speaker 5: Oh, I know who you are. This's my grandma.

306
00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:00,960
Speaker 1: Oh okay, so Violets is your grandmother?

307
00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:02,879
Speaker 8: Okay do you?

308
00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:09,479
Speaker 1: Unexpectedly we find ourselves talking to Violet Ellison's granddaughter, Tyse Davis,

309
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:12,560
Speaker 1: is in her fifties but doesn't look a day over forty.

310
00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:17,280
Speaker 1: When I mentioned her grandmother Violet Ellison, Tyse comes out

311
00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:20,600
Speaker 1: from behind the screen door. She keeps her earbuds in

312
00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:24,280
Speaker 1: while we stand on the porch and talk. What kind

313
00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:25,199
Speaker 1: of grandmother was she?

314
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:28,240
Speaker 8: Was she involved in your life? No?

315
00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:30,879
Speaker 7: No, she told my day, yo, kids ain't gonna never

316
00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:35,159
Speaker 7: mountain there. But then we're the kids that's been successful

317
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:38,600
Speaker 7: and now she's she's trying to come back around.

318
00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:39,720
Speaker 5: Yeah.

319
00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:41,440
Speaker 1: So there's not like warm feelings.

320
00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:44,280
Speaker 8: Yeah.

321
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:47,680
Speaker 1: So far, most of the people I've contacted about Violet

322
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:51,440
Speaker 1: Ellison had good reason to say negative things about her.

323
00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:56,680
Speaker 1: Those were people who she testified against. But this feels different.

324
00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:01,800
Speaker 1: We're hearing from a blood relative, person connected to Violet

325
00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:06,760
Speaker 1: Ellison through family. Tyist tells us she's retired from the

326
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:11,040
Speaker 1: Air Force. She moved to Georgia with her mom, Anita Davis,

327
00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:14,919
Speaker 1: and her two brothers. When they were kids. Tye says

328
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:18,480
Speaker 1: it was to get away from the chaos surrounding her

329
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:21,960
Speaker 1: father's side of the family. We asked her about Red,

330
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:25,119
Speaker 1: what's the deal with Red? Her son?

331
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:27,760
Speaker 8: Uh So that's my dad.

332
00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:31,040
Speaker 7: Okay, I really don't how nothing do him because he's

333
00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:32,320
Speaker 7: been on drug since.

334
00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:34,960
Speaker 5: I was nine, eight or nine.

335
00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:38,320
Speaker 7: Okay, he stayed with her, So you know you had

336
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:40,720
Speaker 7: a parents where you know, you know your child doing stuff,

337
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:43,760
Speaker 7: but you uphold it firstus letting them know you wrong.

338
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:46,159
Speaker 5: Yeah, she upholds everything you do.

339
00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:47,640
Speaker 8: That's exactly.

340
00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:52,880
Speaker 1: Tyis corroborates the picture already painted by George Holloway and

341
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:56,960
Speaker 1: a neighbor of Violet Ellison, telling us that she readily

342
00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:01,560
Speaker 1: involves herself and other people's criminal issues, but does whatever

343
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:05,080
Speaker 1: she can to protect her son. Read when he gets

344
00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:05,719
Speaker 1: into trouble.

345
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:09,240
Speaker 7: You don't need neighborhood watch with her. But she only

346
00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:11,679
Speaker 7: if she only noticed what she wanted notice, because if

347
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:13,879
Speaker 7: her son was bringing in somebody house but steriously she

348
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:16,600
Speaker 7: didn't see that, but anything else she would see.

349
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:18,560
Speaker 5: So yeah, that type of stuff.

350
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:22,640
Speaker 1: We explained why we're interested in Violet Ellison and her son,

351
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:26,600
Speaker 1: and Tays tells us she had recently heard about her

352
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:30,359
Speaker 1: grandmother's involvement into Forrest Johnson's case.

353
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:34,000
Speaker 7: So I w I wasn't surprised when I heard it

354
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:38,320
Speaker 7: because if it involved money, I wouldn't be surprised.

355
00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:40,920
Speaker 1: Well, and it did. I mean she was paid five

356
00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:41,760
Speaker 1: thousand dollars.

357
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:44,200
Speaker 7: Yeah, so I wouldn't be surprised. Like when I heard

358
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:46,680
Speaker 7: the story, I was like, Yeah, I'm not surprised at all.

359
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:50,560
Speaker 5: She's money homer. So that that's the.

360
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:54,679
Speaker 7: Issue that would like I said, will say anything to

361
00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:55,200
Speaker 7: get money.

362
00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:57,040
Speaker 1: Why is she like that any idea?

363
00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:01,080
Speaker 7: No, even like I said, growing up, I I had

364
00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:04,200
Speaker 7: nothing to do with them. Like for instance, I'm gonna

365
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:05,120
Speaker 7: give you an example.

366
00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:09,640
Speaker 1: Ty East tells us that Violet Ellison was distant when

367
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:13,679
Speaker 1: she was a child, but then right after Tyst joined

368
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:16,760
Speaker 1: the Air Force, she got a call from her grandmother.

369
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:20,479
Speaker 7: Haven't done nothing for me, her gray child, haven't done

370
00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:23,960
Speaker 7: nothing for me. When I joined the military, she said, hey,

371
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:25,479
Speaker 7: I need your social Security number so I can give

372
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:27,600
Speaker 7: insurance poll this on you just.

373
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:29,600
Speaker 5: In case you know, something happened to you and we

374
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:30,280
Speaker 5: can bury you.

375
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 7: I'm fine with the military, got me covered and that stuff,

376
00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:35,560
Speaker 7: and go to my mom. So why you need my

377
00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:39,080
Speaker 7: social but you ain't never decided to do that before,

378
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 7: so stuff like that. But I'm not surprised with the

379
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:47,560
Speaker 7: money thing, and I hate that this man could be

380
00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:52,320
Speaker 7: innocent and for five thousand dollars he's on did her

381
00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:53,360
Speaker 7: five thousand dollars.

382
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:56,240
Speaker 1: But she testified under oath that she did not know

383
00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:59,560
Speaker 1: about the reward. She didn't know that any money was involved.

384
00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:09,720
Speaker 7: So's exactly my brother said. She ain't testified against nentheless

385
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:10,680
Speaker 7: his money involved.

386
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:15,600
Speaker 1: All of a sudden, we realize that Tyss has earbuds

387
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:19,199
Speaker 1: in because she's on the phone with someone. It's her

388
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:22,359
Speaker 1: brother Tony. Oh, okay, is he here?

389
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:23,040
Speaker 3: Yeah?

390
00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:24,640
Speaker 1: Do you think he would talk to us?

391
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:27,440
Speaker 5: Would it be possible for us to come see him too?

392
00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:35,040
Speaker 5: You're fine with that tone? Okay, you would just have.

393
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:35,600
Speaker 8: To kick.

394
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:41,280
Speaker 1: Violet Ellison's grandson, Tony lives about ten minutes away from

395
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:44,720
Speaker 1: his sister Tye. We get to his house and the

396
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 1: front yard is filled with cars in various states of repair.

397
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:50,920
Speaker 1: He's waiting for us on the porch.

398
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:56,040
Speaker 8: Hello, Hi, how are you are you?

399
00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:56,440
Speaker 5: Tony?

400
00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 1: After he finishes extracting an old bird's nest from the rafters,

401
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:04,120
Speaker 1: Tony talks to us for forty minutes.

402
00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 10: Ru, I can tell you one thing about my grandma.

403
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:08,920
Speaker 10: She is a that's a true scam artist.

404
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 5: That's a truth. I hate to see it.

405
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:13,240
Speaker 10: I know that's my grandmother, but that's a true scam

406
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:15,880
Speaker 10: Audi though any way she can get a dollar telling

407
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:17,880
Speaker 10: she ain't that type. It just gonna help him out,

408
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 10: just to help them. Sh it gotta have money.

409
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:23,400
Speaker 5: It how it got it. Gotta have money involved. Wow,

410
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:25,440
Speaker 5: it just had it. It gotta have you ain't got

411
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:27,920
Speaker 5: money involved. She.

412
00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:32,160
Speaker 1: Tony says his grandmother tried to scam him out of

413
00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:35,120
Speaker 1: five hundred dollars by claiming that he owed her for

414
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:40,040
Speaker 1: a loan. Mara tells Tony about how the state presented

415
00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:43,680
Speaker 1: Violet Ellison it to Forrest Johnson's trial, and that she

416
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:47,400
Speaker 1: says she didn't know about the reward when she testified.

417
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:51,160
Speaker 1: He doesn't believe that getting.

418
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:53,520
Speaker 10: Your being shut like she concerned about stuff. But really

419
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:56,160
Speaker 10: she ain't concern She just tryna get your visit. U

420
00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:58,480
Speaker 10: tryna see a way she can get some money.

421
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:00,000
Speaker 5: Oh reward for these.

422
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:03,480
Speaker 10: I'm fine, hopefully, But she lied too much, like my

423
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:07,320
Speaker 10: dad lied too much, like she she allied by anything

424
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:08,800
Speaker 10: to get away with anything.

425
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:13,000
Speaker 1: So he goes on to describe the relationship Violet Ellison

426
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:16,160
Speaker 1: has with her son Red, who is also Tony's father.

427
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:19,960
Speaker 5: They like Bunnie and Clyde, I should arride for him.

428
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:20,640
Speaker 5: The whole time.

429
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:23,840
Speaker 10: She could see with her own eyes with this man, indeed,

430
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:25,680
Speaker 10: and she and she'd be like.

431
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:28,480
Speaker 5: Oh, ain't see ain't she yet? She always doing like that.

432
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:30,680
Speaker 5: She be like this And he was lit like.

433
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:34,800
Speaker 1: Tony then tells us the story about the assault and

434
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:38,520
Speaker 1: battery case that led us here, filling in details that

435
00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:42,400
Speaker 1: are missing from the court files. He says, when he

436
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:47,040
Speaker 1: was little, Red was on drugs and would hit Tony's mom.

437
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:52,120
Speaker 1: One night, Tony, wanting to protect her, stabbed Red.

438
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:55,160
Speaker 10: Okay, that was when I was young a child. I

439
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:59,080
Speaker 10: stabbed him. Wow, I really did I stab him? I

440
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:01,360
Speaker 10: stabed him in his cab. Most of them stuff, he ohala,

441
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:03,959
Speaker 10: And then know who was the first person that pulled up?

442
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 6: Vie?

443
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:09,080
Speaker 5: She the first verse pulled up, and he didn't. They didn't.

444
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:10,360
Speaker 5: They told the police a lie.

445
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:12,120
Speaker 10: They tried to put it like somebody he got in

446
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:14,560
Speaker 10: a fight with somebody and all this stuff.

447
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:15,480
Speaker 5: But they wait.

448
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:18,600
Speaker 1: So Violet lied to the police she always lied for.

449
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:20,280
Speaker 5: The police to try to give him out of trouble.

450
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:22,840
Speaker 5: But she tried to put it like I was gonna

451
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:25,400
Speaker 5: get in trouble to stab him. I didn't care. I

452
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 5: was little. I didn't care like what y'all would do

453
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:29,000
Speaker 5: to a child. I'm just protecting my mama, you know.

454
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:34,320
Speaker 1: According to Tony, even when he was little, he saw

455
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:38,560
Speaker 1: Violet Ellison lie to police to protect her son Red.

456
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:42,920
Speaker 1: But Red was arrested for this incident and sentenced to

457
00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:47,360
Speaker 1: sixty days probation. And it was after this Tys and

458
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 1: Tony's mother, Anita, decided to move the family to Georgia.

459
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:57,640
Speaker 1: Like his sister Tayse, Tony was also troubled to recently

460
00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:02,120
Speaker 1: hear about his grandmother's involvement and to forrest Johnson's conviction

461
00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:03,400
Speaker 1: and death sentence.

462
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:06,240
Speaker 5: I hate that man going through that.

463
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:08,800
Speaker 10: I really hate that being and ice to the point

464
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:11,520
Speaker 10: it's a chance he can lose his life or fire

465
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:12,160
Speaker 10: out luncome.

466
00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:26,640
Speaker 1: I'm not typically comfortable reporting negative opinions about a private citizen,

467
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:32,640
Speaker 1: but Violet Ellison's word is the case against to Forest Johnson.

468
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:36,400
Speaker 1: In order to figure out how an innocent person ended

469
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:40,880
Speaker 1: up on death row, there was no way around investigating

470
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:50,000
Speaker 1: the star witness and whether or not she's credible. I

471
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:53,240
Speaker 1: had that conversation with Violet Ellison on her front porch

472
00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:57,360
Speaker 1: a year before I talked with Tys and Tony, but

473
00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:01,600
Speaker 1: after hearing from her grandchildren, I went back and knocked

474
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:08,600
Speaker 1: on Violet Ellison's door again multiple times. HI, we're looking

475
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 1: for miss Violet Ellison. I wanted to learn more about

476
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:18,480
Speaker 1: her relationship with her son Read and her involvement in

477
00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:23,960
Speaker 1: other cases. Each time I knocked, the woman inside claimed

478
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:27,800
Speaker 1: Violet Ellison wasn't at home. I even left a note

479
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:31,560
Speaker 1: in her mailbox along with my business card, but Violet

480
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:55,320
Speaker 1: Ellison never responded. Miss Ellison, is that you? I wasn't

481
00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:59,560
Speaker 1: able to find documented proof of all of the allegations

482
00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:04,000
Speaker 1: that Sawes made against Violet Ellison. For example, there's no

483
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:08,120
Speaker 1: paper trail that shows she lied to protect her son Read.

484
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:14,160
Speaker 1: But there's also no ironclad proof that Violet Ellison heard

485
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:18,720
Speaker 1: to Forrest Johnson talk about killing Deputy Hardy. In nineteen

486
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:23,919
Speaker 1: ninety five, the state presented her testimony with no verification

487
00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:27,839
Speaker 1: of what she claimed, no recording of the calls she

488
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:33,520
Speaker 1: evesdropped on, nothing outside her word and the notes she

489
00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:37,719
Speaker 1: turned over to police that connected to Forrest Johnson to

490
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:41,879
Speaker 1: a murder. He maintains to this day that he did

491
00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:48,760
Speaker 1: not commit. Prosecutors presented Violet Ellison as a concerned mother

492
00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:52,480
Speaker 1: troubled by her conscience, and she was adamant that she

493
00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:57,000
Speaker 1: didn't know about the reward when she testified. But through

494
00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:02,279
Speaker 1: my reporting, consistent negative desc descriptions kept coming up about her,

495
00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:07,120
Speaker 1: even from her own grandchildren. One former co worker called

496
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:11,800
Speaker 1: her sneaky, a relative referred to her as a peacebreaker.

497
00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:17,400
Speaker 1: Almost every person we talked to said Violet Ellison should

498
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:22,400
Speaker 1: not be trusted. We spoke to over a dozen different

499
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:27,880
Speaker 1: people about Violet Ellison. The consistent portrait that emerged from

500
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:33,799
Speaker 1: these conversations is diametrically opposed to the characterization presented by

501
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:38,400
Speaker 1: prosecutors at trial and what judges still believe as to

502
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:43,560
Speaker 1: Forrest tries to undo his conviction. I also learned that

503
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:48,359
Speaker 1: Violet Ellison was in a precarious financial position, burdened by

504
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:53,000
Speaker 1: medical debt. She lives in a community plagued by violence

505
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:58,600
Speaker 1: and poverty. Her son suffers from addiction. She's estranged from

506
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:03,840
Speaker 1: some of her immediate family. She seems to seize opportunities

507
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:08,400
Speaker 1: where she can. One of those was created by the

508
00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:13,000
Speaker 1: state when they offered money for information about a police

509
00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:28,000
Speaker 1: officer's murder. Fifteen years before I began looking into Violet Ellison,

510
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:32,040
Speaker 1: there was someone else who had questions about her credibility.

511
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:37,200
Speaker 1: Jeff Wallace, the prosecutor who stood in front of a

512
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:41,760
Speaker 1: jury and threw Deputy Hardy's hat onto the courtroom floor.

513
00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:46,400
Speaker 2: Jeff Waller spent four years of his life prosecuting this case,

514
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:50,560
Speaker 2: trying to put rodregas Ford into Forest Johnson on death row.

515
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:53,759
Speaker 2: He successfully put to force Johnson on death row. I

516
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:57,239
Speaker 2: mean four years of his professional life he devoted to this.

517
00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:01,399
Speaker 1: Jeff Wallace reached out to Ti Alper and the rest

518
00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:04,120
Speaker 1: of Ta Forest's legal team to share what was on

519
00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:10,400
Speaker 1: his mind, and today he says that to Forrest Johnson

520
00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:12,280
Speaker 1: deserves a new trial.

521
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:18,320
Speaker 2: Twenty years later, he's saying, I think it should be undone.

522
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:18,920
Speaker 5: I mean.

523
00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:23,960
Speaker 2: That to me takes courage that most lawyers don't have.

524
00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:34,880
Speaker 1: That's next time. Ear Witness is a production of Lava

525
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:39,799
Speaker 1: for Good podcasts in association with Signal Company. Number One.

526
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:45,120
Speaker 1: Executive producers are Jason Flom, Jeff Kempler, Kevin Wardis and

527
00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:49,360
Speaker 1: me Beth Shelburn. The investigative reporting for this series was

528
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:54,600
Speaker 1: done by Me and MARAA. McNamara. Producers are Mara McNamara,

529
00:37:54,840 --> 00:38:00,000
Speaker 1: Hannah bal and Jackie Polly. Kara Cornhaber is our senior producer.

530
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:05,520
Speaker 1: Brit Spangler is our sound designer. Additional story editing from

531
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:11,280
Speaker 1: Marie Sutton, fact check help from Catherine Newhan, and special

532
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:15,960
Speaker 1: thanks to to Forrest Johnson's legal defense team. You can

533
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:20,600
Speaker 1: follow the show on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, and Twitter at

534
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:24,040
Speaker 1: Lava for Good. To see behind the scenes content from

535
00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:28,600
Speaker 1: our investigation, visit lava for goood dot com slash ear

536
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:29,080
Speaker 1: Witness