WEBVTT - Former Paramount President Disrupting Hollywood 0:00:00.000 --> 0:00:01.760 There's a Las Vegas stands by the way up about 0:00:01.760 --> 0:00:04.200 six point eight percent here in the after hours on 0:00:04.360 --> 0:00:07.760 that news of a potential sail or exploring one. Alright, 0:00:08.280 --> 0:00:10.800 let's talk a little bit about the content industry. You're 0:00:10.800 --> 0:00:13.280 listening to Bloomberg Business Week Carl Master along with Kaylee Lens. 0:00:13.320 --> 0:00:16.520 We know content has been disrupted big time by COVID nineteen. 0:00:16.560 --> 0:00:20.400 We know content has been consumed big time by COVID nineteen. 0:00:21.000 --> 0:00:24.600 Let's get into someone who understands all of this big time. 0:00:24.600 --> 0:00:27.600 The team behind Invisible Narratives. It's a digital content studio. 0:00:27.640 --> 0:00:30.520 It's co founded by Adam Goodman, former president of Paramount 0:00:30.560 --> 0:00:34.640 Pictures and DreamWorks SKG. Andrew Sugarman also is one of 0:00:34.680 --> 0:00:37.560 the co founders. Former Walt Disney Executive vice president Global 0:00:37.560 --> 0:00:40.920 Digital Media and Publishing. Adam joining us on the phone 0:00:40.920 --> 0:00:43.960 from Los Angeles. Adam, so great to have you here 0:00:44.000 --> 0:00:47.400 with us. How are you and what has COVID done 0:00:47.440 --> 0:00:51.920 to your world? It is thanks for having me. It 0:00:52.000 --> 0:00:56.320 is literally turned everything that we know about how you 0:00:56.360 --> 0:00:59.640 make something and turned it upside down, shook it and 0:00:59.680 --> 0:01:03.000 around owned and uh and turned it all around. It is. 0:01:03.080 --> 0:01:06.839 It is the most disorienting and most exhilarating at time 0:01:06.880 --> 0:01:10.039 I think that I've ever been in the entertainment industry. Well, 0:01:10.080 --> 0:01:12.480 and you were producing a movie at least through part 0:01:12.480 --> 0:01:15.600 of this. The pandemic, of course, isn't over. And Songbird, Uh, 0:01:15.720 --> 0:01:17.920 your film that's coming out was one of the first 0:01:17.959 --> 0:01:20.920 to go back into production after full lockdown. Can you 0:01:20.959 --> 0:01:22.640 just tell us a little bit about what that was, like, 0:01:22.720 --> 0:01:24.839 what kind of protocols did you have to put in place? 0:01:25.440 --> 0:01:31.400 Give us some insight. It was imagine an operating room 0:01:31.480 --> 0:01:35.640 and uh. And the system that our co producers and 0:01:35.640 --> 0:01:39.199 and and that's created in the situation was to try 0:01:39.240 --> 0:01:43.360 to mimic the amount of people and resources that were 0:01:43.400 --> 0:01:48.040 needed directly in the operating room or people that were outside. 0:01:48.280 --> 0:01:52.360 Maybe we're a little bit um less essential. They were 0:01:52.400 --> 0:01:55.480 tested a bit less frequently, They had less access to 0:01:55.520 --> 0:01:59.240 our cast, into our direct crew, and so we created 0:01:59.280 --> 0:02:01.880 these zones. And so there was a sea zone and 0:02:01.960 --> 0:02:05.440 the zone and in a zone and uh. And it 0:02:05.520 --> 0:02:10.359 was very frustrating because again, movie crews have great rhythm 0:02:10.520 --> 0:02:13.920 and great speed and efficiencies at which a hundred years 0:02:13.919 --> 0:02:17.280 of making movies has nearly perfected. And this kind of 0:02:17.320 --> 0:02:20.480 scrambled that process because now all of a sudden you 0:02:20.480 --> 0:02:22.600 couldn't get to a certain place on a set, You 0:02:22.639 --> 0:02:25.760 had to pass things along, you had to invert literally 0:02:25.800 --> 0:02:27.960 the way in rhythm of how everything was done. So 0:02:28.040 --> 0:02:30.440 it was it was really challenging, but thankfully we got 0:02:30.440 --> 0:02:32.560 through it and made a great movie in the process 0:02:32.639 --> 0:02:35.920 of it. Yeah, really fascinating. I mean to hear you 0:02:35.960 --> 0:02:37.600 know kind of how you figured out how to get 0:02:37.600 --> 0:02:39.720 it done. And we've talked to some other people who 0:02:39.760 --> 0:02:42.080 have done some some filming too, and that's what it 0:02:42.120 --> 0:02:44.360 all came down to, is really creating these zones to 0:02:44.440 --> 0:02:47.560 make it, make it happen. So so where are you 0:02:47.639 --> 0:02:50.680 are you able to get new productions going give us 0:02:50.680 --> 0:02:54.480 an idea of what the flow is like. The flow 0:02:54.560 --> 0:02:58.120 is actually starting to get back to normal. I think smaller, 0:02:58.200 --> 0:03:03.320 more nimble productions are having more success and more safety 0:03:03.440 --> 0:03:05.519 on the set just simply because it's less people coming 0:03:05.520 --> 0:03:09.160 in contact with each other. But there's been a number 0:03:09.160 --> 0:03:12.600 of productions that have wrapped since Songbird with with great 0:03:12.639 --> 0:03:16.880 track records, and people are really modifying. And the one 0:03:16.919 --> 0:03:19.959 thing movie crews are is they're resilient and they're creative, 0:03:20.000 --> 0:03:24.000 brilliantly creative, and so the systems and teams that people 0:03:24.040 --> 0:03:28.160 have put together to identify the right way back and 0:03:28.240 --> 0:03:31.400 forward is really working now at this place. So I 0:03:31.440 --> 0:03:35.440 think that we're still making movies. We completed a horror 0:03:35.480 --> 0:03:39.760 movie that we actually released on Thursday, and um, and 0:03:39.800 --> 0:03:41.920 we're back. I mean we're we're back in a different 0:03:41.920 --> 0:03:46.040 sort of way. The movie theater business is upside down, 0:03:46.080 --> 0:03:48.560 but but everything else is starting to starting to move 0:03:48.560 --> 0:03:51.840 in more normal ways again. Well, on that movie theater business, 0:03:51.840 --> 0:03:56.119 you're also releasing some of this contact on direct consumer platforms. 0:03:56.320 --> 0:03:58.240 Is that the future? Is it going to be not 0:03:58.400 --> 0:03:59.920 just in theaters, but you're going to be able to 0:04:00.000 --> 0:04:04.960 access it online right away. I can't speak to, you know, 0:04:05.000 --> 0:04:07.680 to big budget productions, which I've certainly been involved with 0:04:07.720 --> 0:04:10.560 and have my fair share of experience with, but I 0:04:10.560 --> 0:04:12.920 will tell you that there has never been a greater 0:04:13.000 --> 0:04:19.280 generational shift between consumers and people who are content consumers 0:04:19.279 --> 0:04:23.800 and people who are making content decisions. Now, you know 0:04:23.880 --> 0:04:27.760 the amount of time that young people have spent during 0:04:27.760 --> 0:04:32.760 this pandemic watching gaming online, or influencers online, or making 0:04:32.800 --> 0:04:38.440 TikTok videos or Instagram stories. It's unparalleled. And it's time 0:04:38.600 --> 0:04:42.440 for content creators on a professional side to understand that 0:04:42.520 --> 0:04:45.680 traditional is shifting. So we're really trying to blend a 0:04:45.760 --> 0:04:49.160 trae digital mode, which is take the best of storytelling 0:04:49.400 --> 0:04:53.880 and and content creation through years of practice and experience, 0:04:54.320 --> 0:04:57.920 but do it in ways that are specific to audiences 0:04:57.920 --> 0:05:00.279 that really are underserved right now and give it big 0:05:00.279 --> 0:05:03.359 events that can be things that are different than what 0:05:03.400 --> 0:05:05.400 they would get because the movie theaters aren't open in 0:05:05.440 --> 0:05:09.160 their towns. Adam, we left off talking about this generation, 0:05:09.240 --> 0:05:11.800 the TikTok Instagram generation, and how you have to reach 0:05:11.880 --> 0:05:16.880 them differently. Your company focuses specifically on that gen Z audience. 0:05:17.560 --> 0:05:23.520 How is their taste and consumption different they there, This 0:05:23.600 --> 0:05:27.800 is the first generation that that has no gatekeepers in 0:05:27.839 --> 0:05:29.719 front of them. When they want to tell a story 0:05:29.800 --> 0:05:33.440 or they want to publish something, they can distribute directly 0:05:33.520 --> 0:05:38.240 to an audience of friends, and sometimes those friends become fans, 0:05:38.240 --> 0:05:43.479 and sometimes those fans create superstars. And this audience is 0:05:43.480 --> 0:05:46.120 is used to watching things in a different way and 0:05:46.120 --> 0:05:48.560 they're used to consuming things in a different way. So 0:05:48.600 --> 0:05:50.960 we decided that what made most sense was to go 0:05:51.040 --> 0:05:54.960 after stars that were not stars in a traditional sense. 0:05:55.000 --> 0:05:58.479 But we're stars for our kids and young people. So 0:05:58.520 --> 0:06:00.560 we partnered with Phase Plan, which is of the biggest 0:06:01.320 --> 0:06:04.960 gaming lifestyle groups on the planet right now, and made 0:06:05.000 --> 0:06:07.960 a movie with Phase. Rug is one of their biggest, 0:06:07.960 --> 0:06:10.320 one of their biggest stars, that's got over thirty million 0:06:10.400 --> 0:06:13.680 followers across his various social platforms. But we paired him 0:06:13.680 --> 0:06:15.600 with a guy named Greg Pokin, who I made all 0:06:15.600 --> 0:06:19.119 the Paranormal Activity movies with. And so I was really 0:06:19.120 --> 0:06:23.679 trying to combine, you know, great storytelling but also next 0:06:23.680 --> 0:06:26.719 generation storytellers, to put those two together and try to 0:06:26.760 --> 0:06:29.000 do something a little bit different. And what kind of 0:06:29.040 --> 0:06:31.359 stories do you find that they're most interested in? I 0:06:31.440 --> 0:06:33.960 noticed Songbird, the movie you have coming out is a 0:06:34.000 --> 0:06:37.279 thriller Crimson. The other one is a horror film. Is 0:06:37.320 --> 0:06:42.120 that what's hot right now? It's storytelling is storytelling, And 0:06:42.440 --> 0:06:44.640 if I knew what was going to work in storytelling, 0:06:44.680 --> 0:06:46.720 I would I would be on my yacht from this 0:06:46.839 --> 0:06:50.200 song called not Second Office right now. I think that's 0:06:50.240 --> 0:06:52.600 the one thing. I think, the one thing I do 0:06:52.680 --> 0:06:55.760 feel strongly about though, is the way content is consumed 0:06:56.440 --> 0:06:58.839 is different, and therefore the way we make things have 0:06:59.000 --> 0:07:01.520 to be different. You can't make things and try to 0:07:01.560 --> 0:07:03.960 reach as broad of audiences as you used to. You 0:07:04.000 --> 0:07:07.400 need to make things that are much more local in 0:07:07.520 --> 0:07:10.119 terms of their scale and spirits. So you're making things 0:07:10.160 --> 0:07:14.160 for a small audience of highly engaged fans. And additionally, 0:07:14.520 --> 0:07:16.960 it can't be created with so much artifice that you 0:07:17.000 --> 0:07:20.360 have a food stylist who's putting sesame seeds on the 0:07:20.360 --> 0:07:23.680 bun to make the bun and the hamburger look delicious. 0:07:23.720 --> 0:07:26.400 Instead with kids that they're used to reel now, and 0:07:26.440 --> 0:07:28.560 so we spent a hundred years in the movie business 0:07:28.600 --> 0:07:31.280 trying to make everything look perfect, and now when kids 0:07:31.280 --> 0:07:34.320 can shoot things from their backyard, they just wanted to 0:07:34.320 --> 0:07:36.840 look real and authentic. But they still need storytelling running 0:07:36.840 --> 0:07:39.440 throughout it. So how do you see content than evolving? 0:07:39.480 --> 0:07:41.600 Because I do feel like you still have the major 0:07:41.680 --> 0:07:45.960 studios and the big franchise is right, and they're spending, 0:07:46.080 --> 0:07:48.760 you know, hundreds of millions of dollars or tens of 0:07:48.800 --> 0:07:51.120 millions of dollars a lot of money. And yet I 0:07:51.200 --> 0:07:53.720 agree with you that you could go after a niche 0:07:53.760 --> 0:07:57.440 audience and do really well um in terms of content. 0:07:57.520 --> 0:07:59.320 So how do you see it kind of playing out 0:07:59.360 --> 0:08:03.760 over the next years. At them, they're over six hundred 0:08:03.800 --> 0:08:07.120 thousand people right now that have social media reaches of 0:08:07.160 --> 0:08:09.520 over a million people. And if you look at the 0:08:09.560 --> 0:08:14.520 traditional studios or streamers, they're barely scratching the surface of 0:08:14.560 --> 0:08:17.400 that six thousand group of people. Maybe there's a comedian 0:08:17.440 --> 0:08:21.680 here and there, but all these really talented people with 0:08:21.680 --> 0:08:26.240 with with massive fandoms are looking for reasons and and 0:08:26.400 --> 0:08:30.440 opportunities to create events. They can't do it on their own, 0:08:30.560 --> 0:08:32.960 you know, on on YouTube or Instagram because outside of 0:08:32.960 --> 0:08:36.520 their AdSense or brand deal, there's really no financial incentive 0:08:36.559 --> 0:08:39.000 for them to do it. And they can't get recognized 0:08:39.040 --> 0:08:41.880 that the big studio system because they're not big enough 0:08:41.880 --> 0:08:44.920 where they don't have the Q factor that young executives 0:08:44.960 --> 0:08:48.600 know who they are. So we're really trying to establish 0:08:48.600 --> 0:08:51.040 an opportunity for these creators to have something in the 0:08:51.080 --> 0:08:54.760 middle that kind of exists between Netflix and YouTube. So 0:08:54.800 --> 0:08:57.440 when they have something that's a bigger scale or event 0:08:57.880 --> 0:09:00.679 that there's an opportunity. And then it's not just about 0:09:00.679 --> 0:09:04.280 buying a movie, it's about buying a sweatshirt. It's about 0:09:04.320 --> 0:09:08.120 buying something that that merch of some sort that goes 0:09:08.200 --> 0:09:10.520 with to allow them to really be proud of who 0:09:10.559 --> 0:09:13.680 they support and to see something that comes along with it, 0:09:13.720 --> 0:09:16.000 but to have something tangible in their hands, to walk 0:09:16.040 --> 0:09:18.520 away to say I was there for this event. It happened, 0:09:18.559 --> 0:09:20.360 and I was a part of it. So one thing 0:09:20.400 --> 0:09:23.000 I do want to ask you, because we've just seen 0:09:23.200 --> 0:09:26.360 so many new streaming services come on board in the 0:09:26.440 --> 0:09:28.400 last six months, I feel like it's been maybe a 0:09:28.440 --> 0:09:31.600 year um and also the news that Disney is just 0:09:31.679 --> 0:09:33.840 kind of all in on digital, how do you think 0:09:33.880 --> 0:09:36.920 this impacts kind of the world here in terms of 0:09:36.960 --> 0:09:42.199 content creation. I think theatrical is under great jeopardy right now. 0:09:42.800 --> 0:09:45.120 I think it becomes very difficult. If you're in a 0:09:45.160 --> 0:09:48.640 movie studio job and you don't have a digital distribution 0:09:48.880 --> 0:09:52.640 arm in your in your arsenal, then you can't green 0:09:52.760 --> 0:09:55.640 light movies when there's no distribution path to get those 0:09:55.640 --> 0:10:00.120 films out. So studios that don't have, you know, don't 0:10:00.160 --> 0:10:03.080 have an HBO Max or a Peacock or whoever it 0:10:03.160 --> 0:10:06.960 is that they can release something online Disney plus, then 0:10:07.040 --> 0:10:10.960 it becomes it becomes stalling and and and they're frozen, 0:10:11.440 --> 0:10:15.880 and so it forces them to become production companies for streamers. 0:10:15.880 --> 0:10:18.560 Which is really you know, it's it's it's it's kind 0:10:18.559 --> 0:10:22.720 of bizarre to think about considering how fast this shift happened. Yeah, right, Well, 0:10:22.720 --> 0:10:24.959 one streaming company we saw that it hasn't worked out. 0:10:24.960 --> 0:10:27.600 We got news just this week Quimby is winding down 0:10:27.600 --> 0:10:32.440 that short form video streaming. So clearly streaming doesn't always 0:10:32.440 --> 0:10:35.480 work right. There are some formats of it that don't 0:10:35.559 --> 0:10:38.200 have that take up. So how do you how do 0:10:38.240 --> 0:10:42.520 you differentiate yourself so that your content does have that pickup? 0:10:42.559 --> 0:10:44.920 And you're part of the DreamWorks SKG team, I mean, 0:10:44.960 --> 0:10:49.640 you know, Katzenberg, I'm just curious, like what happened. Well, 0:10:49.720 --> 0:10:51.640 I can't speak to that. I can tell you Jeffrey 0:10:51.679 --> 0:10:53.520 is honestly one of the smartest and those men of 0:10:53.520 --> 0:10:55.680 people I've ever worked with, and so I don't I 0:10:55.720 --> 0:10:57.840 can't speak to the Quimby story. I can answer our 0:10:57.960 --> 0:11:00.800 story in that we don't have to find our audience. 0:11:01.520 --> 0:11:05.560 We're we're advertising, and we're working with stars who we 0:11:05.640 --> 0:11:08.680 know exactly who their fans are, where they subscribe, where 0:11:08.679 --> 0:11:11.880 they live, and so our whole content you know, kind 0:11:11.880 --> 0:11:15.600 of strategy right now is to make content for audiences 0:11:15.600 --> 0:11:17.600 that we know where they are. We're not trying to 0:11:17.679 --> 0:11:20.640 tap new people or trying to convince someone to show 0:11:20.720 --> 0:11:23.600 up for something they don't like. We're going after an 0:11:23.600 --> 0:11:26.280 engaged audience and and and hitting them up in a 0:11:26.320 --> 0:11:30.240 place where they already are. We're not asking them to 0:11:30.240 --> 0:11:34.680 to to move someplace until until the event time, but 0:11:34.800 --> 0:11:38.280 before that, we're really creating. The reason why the company 0:11:38.320 --> 0:11:42.040 is called Invisible Narratives is we're creating invisible story arcs 0:11:42.040 --> 0:11:45.120 that live on these kids channels so that they start 0:11:45.200 --> 0:11:49.800 to build a story propulsion. So they're driving to Invice 0:11:49.880 --> 0:11:52.679 dot tv, which is our platform where we combine merch 0:11:52.800 --> 0:11:55.240 and the content. But they're going there because it's a 0:11:55.280 --> 0:11:57.600 curtain that they want to get behind, because they've been 0:11:58.040 --> 0:12:01.440 taken up in the storytelling right and the sort of 0:12:01.720 --> 0:12:03.960 and and so they are moved to it by their 0:12:04.040 --> 0:12:07.520 interest in story. Adam, come back. As you guys continue 0:12:07.559 --> 0:12:10.360 to do things and you've got new developments, come on 0:12:10.400 --> 0:12:12.440 back and tell us how it's going, because it's really fascinating. 0:12:12.440 --> 0:12:14.960 I agree with you. Like this whole space just being disrupted, 0:12:15.400 --> 0:12:19.480 Uh significantly. Adam Goodman, former president Paramount Pictures and DreamWorks 0:12:19.600 --> 0:12:23.600 skg Uh, co founder of Invisible narratives joining us on 0:12:23.640 --> 0:12:25.560 the phone from l A. I mean, man, it's just 0:12:25.640 --> 0:12:27.920 kind of interesting how it's all changing. You made it. 0:12:28.000 --> 0:12:32.080 You made it for hours I did. Monday is over, Carol. 0:12:32.720 --> 0:12:35.959 It's always a tough one, all right, everybody for Kaylee Lines, 0:12:36.040 --> 0:12:39.120 I'm Carol Masser. Have a safe evening. And you, of 0:12:39.160 --> 0:12:42.360 course are listening to Bloomberg Business Week, and this is 0:12:42.400 --> 0:12:43.560 Bloomberg Radio.