1 00:00:02,920 --> 00:00:09,120 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:09,760 --> 00:00:13,280 Speaker 2: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch 3 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:16,400 Speaker 2: Just Live weekdays at noon Eastern on Applecarplay and then 4 00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:19,920 Speaker 2: Proudoro with the Bloomberg Business app. Listen on demand wherever 5 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:24,040 Speaker 2: you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube. 6 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:28,479 Speaker 3: The jury began deliberating for a second day yes, in 7 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:32,080 Speaker 3: Donald Trump's hush money case, after hearing again testimony from 8 00:00:32,120 --> 00:00:36,840 Speaker 3: two key witnesses and of course receiving again instructions from 9 00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:39,840 Speaker 3: the judge just how exactly they should be handling things 10 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:41,120 Speaker 3: in that deliberation. 11 00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:44,159 Speaker 1: Which makes you wonder what sort of big picture questions 12 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:46,520 Speaker 1: they have here if they're going back to the instructions 13 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:49,480 Speaker 1: and some of the most important testimony about that meeting 14 00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:52,960 Speaker 1: at Trump Tower in twenty fifteen. But look, we don't 15 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:55,640 Speaker 1: pretend to know what's happening inside the jury room, and 16 00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:58,680 Speaker 1: if anyone does, they're probably putting you on. We'll have 17 00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:01,880 Speaker 1: the news when it breaks here on Bloomberg. The question 18 00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:05,119 Speaker 1: we're asking, Kayley, is what will be the political implications 19 00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:06,640 Speaker 1: of this verdict one way or the other, And a 20 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:08,200 Speaker 1: new poll would suggest none. 21 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:08,800 Speaker 4: Yeah. 22 00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:12,400 Speaker 3: PBS News Hour together with NPR and Maris releasing data 23 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:16,360 Speaker 3: today that finds sixty seven percent of voters set a 24 00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:21,560 Speaker 3: conviction would make no difference for them in November, including 25 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:24,400 Speaker 3: seventy four percent of independence and actually, the data finds 26 00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:27,000 Speaker 3: twenty five percent of Republicans said they would be even 27 00:01:27,080 --> 00:01:30,600 Speaker 3: more likely to vote for Donald Trump if he were 28 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:32,560 Speaker 3: to be found guilty by jury. 29 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:38,759 Speaker 1: Some have suggested that Donald Trump embrace this idea of incarceration, 30 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:42,080 Speaker 1: if only to spend one night, because of the martyr 31 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:44,840 Speaker 1: effect that it could have on his campaign. That might 32 00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:47,400 Speaker 1: be partly where you're going here. Let's bring the panel in. 33 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:51,040 Speaker 1: Rick Davis and Genie Shanzino are with us Bloomberg Politics contributors. 34 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 1: Our signature panel is back on a day that could 35 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:56,880 Speaker 1: bring some awfully important news. Rick, what do you make 36 00:01:56,920 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 1: of this number? Obviously it's difficult to tell the way 37 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:02,279 Speaker 1: it's going to feel when it really happens. But voters 38 00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 1: are telling polsters essentially that they don't care. Do you 39 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:07,400 Speaker 1: believe them? 40 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 2: You know? 41 00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 5: Look, I mean, the only thing that matters is the 42 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:14,639 Speaker 5: margin in these key battleground states that will decide the 43 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:17,280 Speaker 5: outcome of the election. And we remember in twenty twenty 44 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:22,200 Speaker 5: those margins were pencil thin. I mean just twenty thousand 45 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 5: votes here, ten thousand votes there decided the outcome of 46 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:28,280 Speaker 5: a presidential election. So when you look at these polls, 47 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:30,720 Speaker 5: were at large, great, you know, sixty percent of the 48 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:33,720 Speaker 5: country said they don't care. But if there's five percent 49 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:36,760 Speaker 5: of Republicans who are impacted by this, who would think 50 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:38,960 Speaker 5: less of Donald Trumper decided to stay at home because 51 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:41,560 Speaker 5: they can't vote for a guy who's just been convicted 52 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:44,679 Speaker 5: of a crime that is material to the outcome of 53 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:47,160 Speaker 5: the election. So it's really you have to look under 54 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:50,040 Speaker 5: the data and find who are the movers. We know 55 00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:52,839 Speaker 5: from previous surveys that there are a group of Republicans 56 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:57,560 Speaker 5: who would be considered Trump base, who if he were convicted, 57 00:02:57,600 --> 00:02:58,760 Speaker 5: would reconsider their. 58 00:02:58,600 --> 00:02:59,120 Speaker 2: Support for Um. 59 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:02,040 Speaker 5: Doesn't mean they're going to vote or Biden, but not 60 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 5: voting if you're a Trump supporter is basically the equivalent 61 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:07,400 Speaker 5: of voting for Joe Biden. 62 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:10,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, to your point, Rick, you got to look 63 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:12,639 Speaker 3: at all the data, and it is worth pointing out 64 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:16,320 Speaker 3: that in this poll, ten percent of Republicans and eleven 65 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:19,079 Speaker 3: percent of independent voters said they would be less likely 66 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:21,760 Speaker 3: to vote for Donald Trump if he is found guilty. 67 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:23,680 Speaker 3: So gene to Rick's point about how this is going 68 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:26,480 Speaker 3: to come down to so few voters in so few states. 69 00:03:26,520 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 3: Does it matter if it matters for many or only 70 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:30,240 Speaker 3: if it matters for few? 71 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:34,639 Speaker 6: You know, in the end, it only really matters if 72 00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:36,680 Speaker 6: it matters for a few. To use that word twice 73 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:40,240 Speaker 6: in those key states, and now you know the number 74 00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:43,240 Speaker 6: of states we're even talking about in some people's estimation 75 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:46,240 Speaker 6: has narrowed down to three. But even if you go 76 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:49,000 Speaker 6: broad and say it's six or seven, this is a 77 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:52,160 Speaker 6: very very small number of people that we're talking about 78 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:53,840 Speaker 6: who can swing this thing. 79 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:54,920 Speaker 4: And the other thing. 80 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:58,040 Speaker 6: I would just caution about these polls is as good 81 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:01,000 Speaker 6: as the pollsters are, and they're very good, but asking 82 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 6: these kinds of questions and getting solid data response is tough. 83 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:07,920 Speaker 6: You know, if I hear a question as a voter, 84 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:12,040 Speaker 6: will exchange your mind, Well, you don't really know what 85 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:14,640 Speaker 6: the voter is thinking. People don't want to sound like 86 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:17,560 Speaker 6: their vote will be, you know, is up for grabs 87 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:19,920 Speaker 6: based on the decision of twelve people in New York. 88 00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:22,880 Speaker 6: You know, there's all kinds of issues that can impact 89 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 6: these responses, and we obviously don't have a history to 90 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:27,560 Speaker 6: look back on to guide us. 91 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:28,960 Speaker 4: So we really are you. 92 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:31,440 Speaker 6: Guys we're talking about this being you know, sort of 93 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 6: you know, all crazy on the Western front. 94 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:35,640 Speaker 4: We are also in no man's land. 95 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:38,560 Speaker 6: We really don't know how this thing is going to 96 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:41,680 Speaker 6: turn out, and if we get a decision today or tomorrow, 97 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:44,240 Speaker 6: we're not going to be feeling the effects of that 98 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:45,520 Speaker 6: until November. 99 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:47,680 Speaker 4: So we're still a bit of a ways off. 100 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:52,920 Speaker 1: So how do you plan a campaign around that? Rick? Obviously, 101 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:55,760 Speaker 1: you can't do much to plan other than allow for 102 00:04:55,839 --> 00:04:59,320 Speaker 1: many different scenarios. If your candidate was in court here 103 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:02,640 Speaker 1: waiting for this verdict to drop, how would you be 104 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:04,920 Speaker 1: preparing the public response? 105 00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:08,640 Speaker 5: You know, look, you you would have different tracks, right, 106 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:12,600 Speaker 5: So there's one track, that acquittal, and that rights itself. 107 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:14,520 Speaker 5: You don't have to go very far to find Donald 108 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:17,039 Speaker 5: Trump talking about how you know, he's been you know, 109 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:21,760 Speaker 5: attacked relentlessly by these you know, scams and fake news 110 00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 5: and conspiracy theory. So that's easy, and it'll all land 111 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:28,280 Speaker 5: on on Joe Biden, right, So Trump will make sure 112 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:31,840 Speaker 5: this was the Biden court case. If it's a if 113 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 5: it's a conviction at any number of the thirty four counts, 114 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:39,600 Speaker 5: that are currently being considered. Then it's a much more 115 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:42,840 Speaker 5: complex thing in the sense that you're sure going to say, oh, 116 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:45,680 Speaker 5: this is just I'm you know, it's the grievances. He's 117 00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:47,760 Speaker 5: going to say, it's not me they're convicting. It's all 118 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:50,359 Speaker 5: of you, my voters. You know, I'm standing in the 119 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:54,880 Speaker 5: dogget here representing you. He'll change this court case all 120 00:05:54,920 --> 00:06:01,160 Speaker 5: about repression and being denied your rights rather than the 121 00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:04,120 Speaker 5: facts of the case that are being adjudicated now. So 122 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:08,279 Speaker 5: if you're Donald Trump, you never get out of type, right, 123 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:12,000 Speaker 5: And so I think they're pretty good at spinning this. Arguably, 124 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:15,080 Speaker 5: these cases have actually been a boon to him politically. 125 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:19,600 Speaker 5: Back in February of twenty twenty three, he was much 126 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:22,880 Speaker 5: less popular until he started getting indicted, and next thing, 127 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:27,200 Speaker 5: you know, he crushes his primary opposition and now leads 128 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:32,720 Speaker 5: Joe Biden in all of the early polls, you know, 129 00:06:32,760 --> 00:06:36,039 Speaker 5: looking at the swing states. So I wouldn't doubt that 130 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:38,520 Speaker 5: he's got a plan for this that will be workable 131 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:43,120 Speaker 5: for him and his voters. But again, convictions matter. It 132 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:45,400 Speaker 5: is the end of the line, and we'll see where 133 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:47,800 Speaker 5: he winds up on that. Well. 134 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 3: Geenie to Rick's point about how these many legal troubles 135 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:53,279 Speaker 3: have been a boon for Donald Trump politically. They have 136 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:57,160 Speaker 3: brought him a mechanism through which to fundraise, to galvanize 137 00:06:57,160 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 3: the base. They have also brought him a mechanism with 138 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:02,080 Speaker 3: which to get a lot of earned media for free. 139 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:05,080 Speaker 3: You just talk to the cameras outside the courthouse, whether 140 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:07,359 Speaker 3: it's because you are being arranged or because you have 141 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:10,280 Speaker 3: to be there because you're on trial. When this ends, 142 00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:14,280 Speaker 3: that all goes away, does it actually start to become 143 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:17,040 Speaker 3: a financial consideration. Donald Trump is actually going to have 144 00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 3: to start spending money to get the same kind of 145 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:21,320 Speaker 3: attention that he is receiving. 146 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:25,280 Speaker 6: Now, yeah, I mean, he certainly is the king of 147 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 6: earned media. All he does is go out and say 148 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:31,480 Speaker 6: something absolutely outrageous, and you know he has to be 149 00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:35,240 Speaker 6: covered because he's the presumptive nominee. So I suspect he 150 00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:38,040 Speaker 6: will go more on an outrage tangent if he needs 151 00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:41,160 Speaker 6: to do that. The reality is is that he has 152 00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:44,880 Speaker 6: made the most that he can about being in court 153 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:46,240 Speaker 6: for felony charges. 154 00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 4: But again, this is not where anybody wants to be. 155 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:52,320 Speaker 4: This is a tight election. 156 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:57,200 Speaker 6: The idea that you are going to benefit from you know, 157 00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:02,560 Speaker 6: being charged with felony counts is you know, still a stretch. 158 00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:04,680 Speaker 4: So you know he's done the best he can. 159 00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 6: But this is not a good thing, and Joe Biden 160 00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:10,840 Speaker 6: has outraised him and does not have to spend the 161 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:12,520 Speaker 6: way he does on lawyers. 162 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 1: Flip this around, Rick Davis and ask you if your 163 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:21,160 Speaker 1: candidate was in fact the incumbent in this case, Joe Biden, 164 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:24,040 Speaker 1: would you also be planning for various scenarios or will 165 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:27,080 Speaker 1: it be his job to say nothing and let Donald 166 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:29,560 Speaker 1: Trump do his thing in the public eye. 167 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:33,599 Speaker 5: Nothing makes me happier, Joe than to act like a 168 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:39,760 Speaker 5: democratic strategist. Joe Biden's missed an incredible opportunity for the 169 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:42,599 Speaker 5: last six weeks to frame this entire debate. Why the 170 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:46,400 Speaker 5: campaign has taking a hands off approach in this kind 171 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:49,040 Speaker 5: of a mnemic response this week of having an actor 172 00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:50,920 Speaker 5: go out and get in a fight with Trump supporters 173 00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:54,920 Speaker 5: makes absolutely no sense politically. Every single day of that trial, 174 00:08:54,960 --> 00:08:58,080 Speaker 5: he could have had you know, various groups protesting outside 175 00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:01,440 Speaker 5: the court house with their talking points on every issue 176 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:04,920 Speaker 5: from abortion to others. That would have framed Donald Trump 177 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:08,160 Speaker 5: as a really bad guy. He would be remiss as 178 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:11,160 Speaker 5: a candidate if he did not take whatever comes out 179 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:13,720 Speaker 5: of this trial and frame it in the best possible 180 00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:16,520 Speaker 5: light for Joe Biden and the most negative light for 181 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:20,120 Speaker 5: Donald Trump. The idea of leaving Trump to decide what 182 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:23,040 Speaker 5: the spin is coming off of this trial would be 183 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:25,320 Speaker 5: political malpractice. 184 00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 3: Genie, we only have about a minute left. But do 185 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:29,960 Speaker 3: you agree with Rick on that is Joe Biden going 186 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:31,600 Speaker 3: to enter the game too late on this one? 187 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:34,680 Speaker 4: Yeah, to a certain extent. 188 00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:37,000 Speaker 6: You know, I too was not a fan as we've 189 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:39,480 Speaker 6: talked about about the Robert de Niro, eighty year old 190 00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:42,040 Speaker 6: guy going down there to try to get young people 191 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:45,400 Speaker 6: to vote for you. But the reality is Joe Biden 192 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:48,080 Speaker 6: can frame this if there's a conviction, or if there 193 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:50,600 Speaker 6: is an acquittal or a hung jury. But what he's 194 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:52,840 Speaker 6: got to be out there doing is talking about what 195 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:56,920 Speaker 6: a Trump presidency means for people. You impact on costs, 196 00:09:56,960 --> 00:09:59,760 Speaker 6: the impact on the economics, the impact on our privacy, 197 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:01,800 Speaker 6: our ability to decide what we want to do with 198 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:05,600 Speaker 6: our own bodies, and of course the issue of democracy 199 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:08,280 Speaker 6: and violence. So he's got to stay on that and 200 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:10,240 Speaker 6: he's got to be talking about it. He'd had a 201 00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:13,640 Speaker 6: good step yesterday in Philadelphia. He's got to keep it up. 202 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:15,800 Speaker 6: I'm not a big fan of the lack of travel 203 00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:19,319 Speaker 6: this week, but hopefully he gets back out there on 204 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:22,400 Speaker 6: the trail in a more concerted and energized way. 205 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:26,479 Speaker 3: All right, Rick Davis and Jeanie Shanzano, Bloomberg Politics contributors, 206 00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:27,320 Speaker 3: Thank you so much. 207 00:10:30,559 --> 00:10:33,920 Speaker 2: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast ken 208 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:37,400 Speaker 2: just live weekdays at noon Eastern on Applecarplay and enroud 209 00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:40,120 Speaker 2: Oro with the Bloomberg Business app. You can also listen 210 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:43,360 Speaker 2: live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station, 211 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:47,760 Speaker 2: Just Say Alexa Play Bloomberg eleven thirty. 212 00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:51,000 Speaker 3: We want to go now, though, live here in Washington, 213 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:53,120 Speaker 3: to Capitol Hill, where I'm pleased to say joining us 214 00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:56,719 Speaker 3: now is Republican Congressman Patrick McHenry of North Carolina, the 215 00:10:56,800 --> 00:11:00,760 Speaker 3: Chair of the House Financial Services Committee Congress and mister Chairman, 216 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:03,560 Speaker 3: welcome back to Bloomberg TV and Radio. It's great to 217 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:05,320 Speaker 3: have you. We have much we would like to discuss 218 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:09,000 Speaker 3: with you, including the crypto legislation that has successfully passed 219 00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:12,360 Speaker 3: out of the House of Representatives earlier this month. First, though, 220 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:15,040 Speaker 3: given we are all on tenderhooks right now, waiting to 221 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:17,800 Speaker 3: see when and if a verdict comes down in Donald 222 00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:21,559 Speaker 3: Trump's hush money trial. Should the American people have confidence 223 00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:24,840 Speaker 3: that whatever the outcome here, whether he is acquitted or convicted, 224 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:28,240 Speaker 3: that the justice system did its work as designed, because 225 00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:30,760 Speaker 3: that decision comes from a jury of his peers and 226 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:31,719 Speaker 3: fellow Americans. 227 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:35,120 Speaker 7: Well, look, I think there's been a massive amount of 228 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:39,960 Speaker 7: targeting at the former president, and obviously we see the 229 00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:44,600 Speaker 7: politics at play of elected district attorneys that are playing politics, 230 00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:49,400 Speaker 7: like the DA in Manhattan has done campaigning on the 231 00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:51,240 Speaker 7: fact that he was going to take this action in 232 00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:55,720 Speaker 7: the courtroom. So, but a jury is a jury in 233 00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:58,840 Speaker 7: the United States. They have this say here, and so 234 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:02,320 Speaker 7: I have confidence in our justice system that at the 235 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 7: end of the day, the right thing will be done, 236 00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:06,880 Speaker 7: and we should have a belief in our justice system 237 00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:09,000 Speaker 7: and the rule of law here in the United States. 238 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:11,960 Speaker 7: I think that's very important that we all uphold that. 239 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:15,240 Speaker 1: Do you not believe that, in Congressman, this trial should 240 00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:15,920 Speaker 1: be taking place. 241 00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:22,440 Speaker 7: The DA that brought the charges that is arguing in 242 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:24,280 Speaker 7: the courtroom is the one that campaigned that he was 243 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:26,520 Speaker 7: going to do this. So that's for people to decide 244 00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:29,080 Speaker 7: for themselves. I was here to talk to you about 245 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:32,000 Speaker 7: financial services policy, which I am the chair of the 246 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:35,080 Speaker 7: Financial Services Commander here on Capitol Hill. Not everything is 247 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:39,760 Speaker 7: a consumer of what happens to the former president. I'm 248 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:41,960 Speaker 7: trying to stay focused on policy and get the best 249 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:44,000 Speaker 7: results i can for the American people. That's what I'm 250 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:44,440 Speaker 7: here to do. 251 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:48,520 Speaker 3: Okay, Well, fair enough, mister Chairman. Let's talk then about 252 00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:51,760 Speaker 3: some of that policy. Of course, you have during your tenures. 253 00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:54,480 Speaker 3: The Chair of the Financial Services Committee been an advocate 254 00:12:54,559 --> 00:13:00,160 Speaker 3: for crypto related legislation, successfully earlier this month, passing the 255 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:02,400 Speaker 3: FIT twenty one Act, which of course is the Market 256 00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:06,400 Speaker 3: Structure Bill, delineates the authority between the CFTC and the SEC. 257 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:10,959 Speaker 3: It passed by a wide bipartisan majority in the House. What, though, 258 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:13,840 Speaker 3: are you hearing from your counterparts in the Senate about 259 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:15,240 Speaker 3: its fate in the other chamber. 260 00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:18,760 Speaker 7: Well, the first first thing I've heard from my Senate 261 00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:21,800 Speaker 7: colleagues on the Democrat and Republican side was they were 262 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:24,960 Speaker 7: shocked at the wide margin that we passed this bill 263 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:29,199 Speaker 7: in the House. FIT twenty one is a legal structure 264 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:33,480 Speaker 7: for the trading and ownership of digital assets. It gives 265 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:37,000 Speaker 7: regulatory form to something that currently has no regulatory form. 266 00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:41,440 Speaker 7: It provides consumer protection and the ability to get investment 267 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 7: capital flowing towards the innovation. It's the first of its 268 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:46,760 Speaker 7: kind of legislation here in the United States. So for 269 00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:50,280 Speaker 7: us to pass that important bill Fit twenty one with 270 00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:52,920 Speaker 7: the two thirds vote of the House representatives in these 271 00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:57,800 Speaker 7: divided times is a major statement. With seventy one of 272 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:02,679 Speaker 7: my Democrat colleagues voting with Republicans, it is a major 273 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:05,600 Speaker 7: statement that we're here to make serious policy and we 274 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:09,120 Speaker 7: want to have a regular form of digital assets and 275 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:10,960 Speaker 7: cryptocurrency here in the United States. 276 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:15,120 Speaker 1: With that said, mister Chairman, we spent some time with 277 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:18,120 Speaker 1: Congressman french Hill here on Friday, who implied that the 278 00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:22,640 Speaker 1: momentum that was gathered in the House in passing Fits 279 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:24,920 Speaker 1: twenty one with a wider margin, to your point than 280 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:29,200 Speaker 1: many predicted, was maybe in itself enough to unlock more 281 00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:31,480 Speaker 1: votes in the Senate. Are you in touch with Chuck 282 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:33,920 Speaker 1: Schumer do you have a sense of whether this can 283 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 1: in fact clear the other chamber. 284 00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:39,200 Speaker 7: Well, the Senate is in resouse this week, so when 285 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:41,640 Speaker 7: we get back next week, all of greater clarity on that. 286 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:45,000 Speaker 7: But the first statement we wanted to have was that 287 00:14:45,640 --> 00:14:48,320 Speaker 7: number one, we have serious policy. The second piece of 288 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:51,080 Speaker 7: that is a wide vote total. So I have serious 289 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:54,320 Speaker 7: policy with a wide vote total. French Hill, being the 290 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:57,880 Speaker 7: leading architect of our work and the Financial Services Committee 291 00:14:57,880 --> 00:15:02,640 Speaker 7: on this important bill, he stated clearly what I believe, 292 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:06,120 Speaker 7: which is the momentum is built off that vote total, 293 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:08,920 Speaker 7: and the Senate should take a This should be a 294 00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:11,480 Speaker 7: wake up call for the Senate that they need to 295 00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:13,440 Speaker 7: get on with this. They need to stay focused on 296 00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:16,200 Speaker 7: getting policy here and get it done before the election. 297 00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:19,280 Speaker 7: I think that's a clear statement of this wide vote 298 00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:20,359 Speaker 7: in the House of Representatives. 299 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:26,600 Speaker 3: Well, it wasn't that far long ago, Congressman, that the 300 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:29,640 Speaker 3: conversation we were having about policy related to crypto that 301 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:32,040 Speaker 3: may be able to work its way through the Senate 302 00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:34,960 Speaker 3: was stable cooin legislation that potentially it could be tied 303 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:39,040 Speaker 3: together together with other priorities, for some like the Safe 304 00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:42,200 Speaker 3: Banking Act, which of course would provide marijuana companies access 305 00:15:42,280 --> 00:15:46,480 Speaker 3: to the US banking system. Where is progress on that 306 00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:49,440 Speaker 3: in the House. What is the tenor of your conversations 307 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:51,440 Speaker 3: in that regard with Maxine Waters right now? 308 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:56,640 Speaker 7: Well, I'm not in favor of the cannabis banking legislation 309 00:15:56,760 --> 00:16:01,040 Speaker 7: that's been put forth I voted against at the last 310 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:04,200 Speaker 7: two congresses. It's not a priority for me to move 311 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:08,880 Speaker 7: that legislation. But stable coin legislation is a priority. And 312 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:13,080 Speaker 7: I've been negotiating with ranking Member Maximum Waters on stable 313 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:17,600 Speaker 7: coin policy for the last twenty three months and we 314 00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:19,960 Speaker 7: want to be able to move policy. But unless we 315 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:24,280 Speaker 7: can get a Senate vehicle from the stable coins, there 316 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:26,840 Speaker 7: is no closing date for our negotiations. We need a 317 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:29,000 Speaker 7: closing date, we need a vehicle, and we need an 318 00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:33,160 Speaker 7: opportunity to get that enacted into law. Unfortunately, the Senate 319 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:36,480 Speaker 7: and the Senate schedule is the focus of that bill. 320 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:39,920 Speaker 7: We hope that this market I hope that this market 321 00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:43,760 Speaker 7: structure bill that we passed, though Maxim Waters didn't support it, 322 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:47,880 Speaker 7: that seventy one Democrats voting with Republicans is a major statement. 323 00:16:47,920 --> 00:16:51,240 Speaker 7: We can move that and hopefully we can get stable 324 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:54,680 Speaker 7: coins prioritized as well. 325 00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:58,360 Speaker 1: Is there another vehicle in the rest of this Congress, 326 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:01,440 Speaker 1: mister Chairman, Is it possible that stable coin could move 327 00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:04,760 Speaker 1: as a standalone bill or you need a bigger vehicle 328 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:06,200 Speaker 1: to get this across the finish line? 329 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:10,719 Speaker 7: Well, I actually think we need a bigger vehicle. What 330 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:13,000 Speaker 7: we have not seen in the Senate is for them 331 00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:18,640 Speaker 7: to take a standalone financial services or financial services bill 332 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:22,159 Speaker 7: across the Senate floor since Senate Bill twenty one to 333 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:25,600 Speaker 7: fifty five. And what we need here is the majority 334 00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:29,200 Speaker 7: leader in the Senate to prioritize this policy either market 335 00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:32,840 Speaker 7: structure or stable coins to get through the Senate. 336 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:34,080 Speaker 1: And until that. 337 00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:38,440 Speaker 7: Time, we're just going to create the atmosphere and the 338 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:41,880 Speaker 7: pressure in the best way we can to get them 339 00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:44,560 Speaker 7: to prioritize this and put it on the calendar. 340 00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:48,479 Speaker 3: Well, of course the clock is ticking, as this is 341 00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:50,840 Speaker 3: an election year, mister Chairman, and it's a year in 342 00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:53,639 Speaker 3: which you are not seeking re election yourself as you 343 00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:57,200 Speaker 3: will be retiring at the end of your term. Other 344 00:17:57,320 --> 00:18:00,600 Speaker 3: than this crypto legislation, which of course we've spoken length about, 345 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:03,520 Speaker 3: no you have been advocating for so strongly, what else 346 00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:06,720 Speaker 3: would you like to see accomplished before your time in 347 00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:07,600 Speaker 3: the House ends. 348 00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:11,240 Speaker 7: Well, my three priorities for my chairmanship of the House 349 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:17,119 Speaker 7: Financial Services Committee have been and remain data privacy, to 350 00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:20,879 Speaker 7: ensure that people's financial data is protected in a world 351 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:25,400 Speaker 7: class way, and that means we have to update existing 352 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:29,680 Speaker 7: laws that were created before the advent of the consumer Internet. 353 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:33,320 Speaker 7: That's number one. Number two capital formation. We have a 354 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:36,720 Speaker 7: package of bills led by Congresswoman and Wagner that have 355 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:40,200 Speaker 7: moved through the House of Representatives. Much of those bills 356 00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:44,760 Speaker 7: have been bipartisan, and I want the Senate to prioritize 357 00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:48,639 Speaker 7: capital formation. Third, and finally is crypto and there are 358 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:50,720 Speaker 7: two components of that, the Market Structure bill that we 359 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:56,159 Speaker 7: passed with wide support and the Stable Quinn legislation that 360 00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:59,159 Speaker 7: we mentioned before. So that's my package, That's what I'm 361 00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:02,840 Speaker 7: focused on for finalancial policy. Last year got a little 362 00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:05,280 Speaker 7: complicated for us to move those bills through the House 363 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:09,240 Speaker 7: because of my involvement and negotiating in the debt ceiling 364 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:12,119 Speaker 7: and then what happened in the fall of last year 365 00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:15,159 Speaker 7: with a motion to v Kate and me serving as 366 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:18,000 Speaker 7: Speaker pro tem for a period of time. So the 367 00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:22,680 Speaker 7: House in the calendar got kind of complicated last year, unfortunately, 368 00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:25,240 Speaker 7: and so this has tipped over to an election year 369 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:28,320 Speaker 7: where it's much more difficult to get policymakers to actually 370 00:19:28,359 --> 00:19:32,480 Speaker 7: be policy makers and focus on policy not politics. 371 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:36,720 Speaker 1: As we spend time with Congressman Patrick McHenry on Bloomberg 372 00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:40,560 Speaker 1: TV and Radio. You just said a lot. Congressman. You 373 00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:44,640 Speaker 1: have a unique perspective on the House of Representatives, having 374 00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:48,280 Speaker 1: held the gavel for some time during this process, not 375 00:19:48,359 --> 00:19:51,240 Speaker 1: to mention your chairmanship, and as you look ahead to 376 00:19:51,359 --> 00:19:55,200 Speaker 1: the lame duck session, I'm wondering if it's then, or 377 00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:58,679 Speaker 1: if it's maybe sooner that you see the chance for 378 00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:02,800 Speaker 1: a supplemental rec quest to help pay for the bridge 379 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:07,120 Speaker 1: in Baltimore that collapsed when it was struck by that 380 00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:11,600 Speaker 1: cargo ship. Is that something this Congress we'll be able 381 00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:13,520 Speaker 1: to do well? 382 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:18,800 Speaker 7: Seeing as the last Congress was the biggest spending congress 383 00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:24,160 Speaker 7: we've ever had in America, and considering we have record deficits, 384 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:27,480 Speaker 7: I think what we're looking for here on Capitol Hill 385 00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:31,080 Speaker 7: is a willingness to pare down spending in order to 386 00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:35,080 Speaker 7: pay for that bridge disaster. I do think it's important 387 00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:38,439 Speaker 7: that our infrastructure be cared for, but we can't just 388 00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:42,479 Speaker 7: simply keep spending money we do not have. And with 389 00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:45,600 Speaker 7: a massive set of spending that this administration is put 390 00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:49,080 Speaker 7: forward that has been the fuel for inflation, I think 391 00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:52,760 Speaker 7: it's important that we pare down spending, and I think 392 00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:56,160 Speaker 7: that will be a reasonable trade for us to get 393 00:20:56,680 --> 00:21:00,000 Speaker 7: funding for the bridge in Baltimore. 394 00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:04,480 Speaker 3: All right, well, Congressman, I want to return to what 395 00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:07,040 Speaker 3: you were just speaking about a few moments ago, the 396 00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:08,800 Speaker 3: idea that it has been a little bit hard to 397 00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:11,760 Speaker 3: actually get the work of policy making done because you 398 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:15,240 Speaker 3: yourself had to service the speaker temporarily for a period 399 00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:17,720 Speaker 3: of time after Kevin McCarthy was ousted. We have seen 400 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:21,160 Speaker 3: actual members of the House of Representatives be kicked out 401 00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:23,800 Speaker 3: of the body. There has been a lot of chaos 402 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:26,240 Speaker 3: in this Congress in particular, maybe so much so that 403 00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:29,440 Speaker 3: you yourself would not like to return in twenty twenty five. 404 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:33,720 Speaker 3: When we consider the prospects of Republicans keeping the House majority, 405 00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:37,639 Speaker 3: given everything we have seen, is it really deserved. 406 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:42,320 Speaker 7: Well, that's for the American people to decide. This has 407 00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:46,040 Speaker 7: been a chaotic time in the body politic of America, 408 00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:51,000 Speaker 7: that is true, and my leaving has nothing to do 409 00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:53,919 Speaker 7: with the chaos at this place. The ebb and flow 410 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:58,360 Speaker 7: of Washington is a distinct beast in and of itself, 411 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:03,000 Speaker 7: and it has title waves and title functions, just like 412 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:08,679 Speaker 7: the great oceans of the world, some predictable, some unpredictable, 413 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:11,520 Speaker 7: but it is a place where you can still get 414 00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:15,879 Speaker 7: things done. I will commend Speaker Johnson for taking action. 415 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:20,040 Speaker 7: We had a two thirds vote on the Supplemental Appropriations 416 00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:24,119 Speaker 7: Bill to fund our warfighters overseas and our allies overseas. 417 00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:27,359 Speaker 7: We had a two thirds vote to reauthorize FAIZA. We 418 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:29,560 Speaker 7: had a two thirds vote in the House Representations to 419 00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:34,399 Speaker 7: fund our government at the fiscal responsibility the debt ceiling level. 420 00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:36,199 Speaker 7: And we had a two thirds vote to raise the 421 00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:39,440 Speaker 7: debt ceiling and pare down spending over the next decade 422 00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:43,480 Speaker 7: with the largest deficit reduction bill with a Fiscal Responsibility 423 00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:46,639 Speaker 7: Acts passage in May of last year about this time, 424 00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:49,680 Speaker 7: so big things have still been able to happen under 425 00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:53,800 Speaker 7: Speaker McCarthy, under Speaker Johnson, and that is still possible 426 00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:57,000 Speaker 7: even in the midst of crazy politics. The American people 427 00:22:57,080 --> 00:22:59,280 Speaker 7: undecided about which direction they want to go, where they 428 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:01,879 Speaker 7: want to go to the left, to the right, and 429 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:05,400 Speaker 7: these flip flopping power structures here in Washington that made 430 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:09,320 Speaker 7: things even more chaotic. And so I think when we 431 00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:11,520 Speaker 7: talk about this stuff, we have a look in the 432 00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:15,520 Speaker 7: broader context of where we are and where the American 433 00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:19,880 Speaker 7: people are, not just a narrow view of how chaotic 434 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:22,679 Speaker 7: the day to day of Washington is, and it is 435 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:24,960 Speaker 7: chaotic as it always has been. 436 00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:29,640 Speaker 1: All Right, Congressman, thank you so much. As you look 437 00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:32,719 Speaker 1: forward to your future of political freedom. We would love 438 00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:34,479 Speaker 1: to stay in touch with you here on Bloomberg. Your 439 00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:36,840 Speaker 1: insights are important to us. He's Chairman of the House 440 00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:39,719 Speaker 1: Financial Services Committee, and a conversation that you won't hear 441 00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:42,879 Speaker 1: anywhere else. I'm Joe Matthew alongside Kaylee Lines will assemble 442 00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:45,000 Speaker 1: our panel next. Rick and Jeanie are with us only 443 00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:45,720 Speaker 1: on Bloomberg. 444 00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:53,040 Speaker 2: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast Ketch 445 00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:56,480 Speaker 2: just live weekdays at noon Eastern on Epocrplay and thenroud 446 00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:59,640 Speaker 2: Otto with the Bloomberg Business app. Listen on demand wherever 447 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:05,080 Speaker 2: you get your podcast, or watch us live on YouTube. 448 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:10,359 Speaker 1: Insights from Daniel Karen a conversation that I've been looking 449 00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:12,720 Speaker 1: forward to here as we try to not only read 450 00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:16,119 Speaker 1: the tea leaves, but prepare ourselves to best understand the 451 00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:19,320 Speaker 1: verdicts when it is read. He's an attorney and professor 452 00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:21,959 Speaker 1: at the University of Michigan Law School and the Ohio 453 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:25,080 Speaker 1: State University Moritz College of Law. Danny it's great to 454 00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:28,359 Speaker 1: have you. Welcome to Bloomberg. What's got your focus today 455 00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:30,000 Speaker 1: as you wait for word on this verdict? 456 00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:33,399 Speaker 8: I'm sorry I talked over your question. 457 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:37,199 Speaker 1: Please, what's got your focus today as you wait for 458 00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:39,159 Speaker 1: the news that we're all waiting for in this verdict? 459 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:43,119 Speaker 8: Certainly what's got my focus is what you just discussed 460 00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:46,159 Speaker 8: in your last segment, and that is the jury asking questions. 461 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:49,160 Speaker 8: The jury's paying attention. The jury wants to know more. 462 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:49,320 Speaker 2: Now. 463 00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:53,760 Speaker 8: They're not focusing on the objective evidence, the checks, the ledgers, 464 00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:57,119 Speaker 8: the invoices, the spreadgets. They're focusing on the more subjective things, 465 00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:00,399 Speaker 8: the discussions, the meetings between Pecker and Trump and Cohen 466 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:03,040 Speaker 8: that went directly toward catch and kill and went toward 467 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:07,720 Speaker 8: paying off Stormy Daniels if they infer the right thing 468 00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:11,399 Speaker 8: as it concerns the prosecution. From these discussions blended with 469 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:15,000 Speaker 8: the objective evidence, I mean, I think Trump's goose is cooked. 470 00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:20,159 Speaker 1: Wow, can you explain, Danny? And we're not experts on 471 00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:24,200 Speaker 1: New York law. That's why we called you why certain 472 00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:28,440 Speaker 1: portions of testimony would still be in dispute. There was 473 00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:30,760 Speaker 1: a back and forth between the judge and Donald Trump's 474 00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:34,760 Speaker 1: legal team trying to strike certain things that David Packer 475 00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:36,520 Speaker 1: and Michael Cohen may have said on the stand. The 476 00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:40,640 Speaker 1: jury heard this when it was said aloud. Obviously, why 477 00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:43,359 Speaker 1: is it still in dispute in text form. 478 00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:48,600 Speaker 8: Well, because the attorneys can always challenge the introduction of evidence, 479 00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:51,960 Speaker 8: and evidential objections are part of that process. If the 480 00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:55,640 Speaker 8: defense doesn't like certain language that got in, they can 481 00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:57,960 Speaker 8: go back again and again and again. Doesn't mean they'll 482 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:01,800 Speaker 8: be successful, but goodness harmon asking. And that's what their 483 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:04,280 Speaker 8: job is to do, is to ask, to create questions, 484 00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:07,600 Speaker 8: to create doubt, to create reasonable doubt. And that's what 485 00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:09,840 Speaker 8: they're trying to do at every opportunity. So when the 486 00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:12,639 Speaker 8: jury brings up testimony, their job is to go in 487 00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:14,840 Speaker 8: and question it again as many bites. 488 00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:19,199 Speaker 1: When that's fascinating, even when deliberations are already underway. So 489 00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:23,760 Speaker 1: attorneys can object to transcripts in this case, well they did. 490 00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:26,520 Speaker 8: It doesn't mean that they'll be sustained. They can object 491 00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:28,520 Speaker 8: to whatever they want. It's kind of like the hey 492 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:30,760 Speaker 8: he can't do that, Well, you know what he just did, 493 00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:33,960 Speaker 8: doesn't mean it'll be sustained. Doesn't mean Judge Marshawan will 494 00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:36,680 Speaker 8: go with it. The judge rules, it's his courtroom, he'll 495 00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:38,720 Speaker 8: do what he wants, and then jury goes back into 496 00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:41,879 Speaker 8: the room and continues continues with its deliberations. 497 00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:45,360 Speaker 1: Danny, what's it like in that jury room right now? 498 00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:49,160 Speaker 1: We've got twelve individuals we don't know anything about, aside 499 00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:51,760 Speaker 1: from some outside reporting we were hearing about one of 500 00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:54,440 Speaker 1: the jurors yesterday. It might be a truth social fan, 501 00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:57,639 Speaker 1: but they're they're in a room together with the world 502 00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:03,680 Speaker 1: watching and an unprecedented scenario that they're in. Can you decipher, 503 00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:06,840 Speaker 1: based on the notes yesterday, based on the things that 504 00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:09,359 Speaker 1: they're asking, what the mood might be like in that room. 505 00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:11,600 Speaker 8: Well, believe it or not, I've actually been on a 506 00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:14,520 Speaker 8: jury and it is the wild West back there in 507 00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:17,359 Speaker 8: my experience. Never mind the fifty five pages of jury 508 00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:19,400 Speaker 8: instructions that took an hour to read the first time, 509 00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:21,719 Speaker 8: in another hour to read the second time. When they 510 00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:24,240 Speaker 8: go back there, they've got their opinions, their biases, their 511 00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:27,399 Speaker 8: preconceived notions. They will push their agendas, they'll try to 512 00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:30,840 Speaker 8: get everybody on board, because you need a unanimous jury, 513 00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:33,800 Speaker 8: you need twelve folks deciding beyond a reasonable doubt that 514 00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:36,720 Speaker 8: Trump is guilty of all thirty four counts, not as 515 00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:39,840 Speaker 8: if as in a civil trial, where the burden is 516 00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:42,800 Speaker 8: by a preponderance of the evidence, meaning just slightly past 517 00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:45,119 Speaker 8: fifty percent. If you had, say, some scales of justice 518 00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:48,280 Speaker 8: in a criminal setting, beyond a reasonable doubt means all 519 00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:50,960 Speaker 8: the way, and that times twelve is a tough road 520 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:53,240 Speaker 8: to hoe. And we might think the evidence is good 521 00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:56,320 Speaker 8: and compelling, but boy, you get one hold out hung Jerry, 522 00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:56,840 Speaker 8: whole thing. 523 00:27:56,760 --> 00:28:00,000 Speaker 1: Blows up, and a lot of people think that's exactly 524 00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:04,320 Speaker 1: what could happen here. What does it mean if your 525 00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:08,120 Speaker 1: client is forced to sit through all this? In this case, 526 00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:10,080 Speaker 1: it's Donald Trump. He's got to be in the courtroom 527 00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:13,560 Speaker 1: while they're deliberating. We saw he was in a holding 528 00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:17,119 Speaker 1: room in a video yesterday with Donald Trump Junior. That 529 00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:19,359 Speaker 1: looked pretty stark. He was sitting in front of what 530 00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:22,240 Speaker 1: looked like a dirty bathroom door. He had some candy 531 00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:23,560 Speaker 1: on a desk in front of him. What are the 532 00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:27,560 Speaker 1: conditions in which Donald Trump is sitting right now in 533 00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:28,240 Speaker 1: the courthouse. 534 00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:32,320 Speaker 8: Well, I've waited on Jerry's too. It's bleak and it's scary. 535 00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:34,520 Speaker 8: Never mind what side you're on, you've got to be 536 00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:37,200 Speaker 8: close and accessible, because when the judge says come on back, 537 00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:39,640 Speaker 8: or the bailiff actually calls you back, whether it be 538 00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:42,440 Speaker 8: four questions or for a verdict, I mean, your heart 539 00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:44,440 Speaker 8: is going like this. You're on pins and needles. You 540 00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:45,960 Speaker 8: don't know what all is going to happen. You just 541 00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:48,200 Speaker 8: show up and hope for the best and expect the worst. 542 00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:50,680 Speaker 8: And he's going through that over and over again. It'll 543 00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:51,640 Speaker 8: happen continually. 544 00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:55,160 Speaker 1: We talked to a lot of legal voices around here 545 00:28:55,200 --> 00:29:01,880 Speaker 1: on the daily, and Danny's experience is important to us here. 546 00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:05,760 Speaker 2: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast ken 547 00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:09,280 Speaker 2: just Live weekdays at noon Eastern on Applecarplay and enroun 548 00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:12,000 Speaker 2: Oo with the Bloomberg Business app. You can also listen 549 00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:15,240 Speaker 2: live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station, 550 00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:19,640 Speaker 2: Just Say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty. 551 00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:23,080 Speaker 1: We hear so much about utilities lately, even in Charlie 552 00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:26,840 Speaker 1: Pellets Stock Market Report, Kayley. The drive to harness more 553 00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:29,280 Speaker 1: power in this country is a very real one, and 554 00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:31,760 Speaker 1: as we head into another long, hot summer, there are 555 00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:34,200 Speaker 1: a lot of questions about the resiliency of our grid, 556 00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:37,440 Speaker 1: not to mention the ability to update the grid upgrade, 557 00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:39,640 Speaker 1: if I can say, the grid to handle this new 558 00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:41,240 Speaker 1: wave of demand from AI. 559 00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:44,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, you need energy more than ever. The problem is, 560 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:48,480 Speaker 3: especially with the various supply forces that can go into 561 00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:51,920 Speaker 3: providing energy to the country, you sometimes have intermittency issues, 562 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:54,440 Speaker 3: that's for sure, and storage issues and the like, and 563 00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:56,760 Speaker 3: hence why we have seen across a number of states 564 00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:59,120 Speaker 3: throughout the country in recent years issues with the grid 565 00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:01,960 Speaker 3: actually being able to keep up with the demand for 566 00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:04,640 Speaker 3: energy that is out there, whether it's too cold or 567 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:07,320 Speaker 3: too hot. Too hot, though, is usually what we consider 568 00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:09,200 Speaker 3: as we enter into the summer months, and we want 569 00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:11,760 Speaker 3: to have this conversation now with Elliott Mainzer. He is 570 00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:15,840 Speaker 3: California's Independent System Operator CEO, and he's joining us here 571 00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:19,160 Speaker 3: in our Washington, d C. Studio. Welcome to Washington, Elliott. 572 00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:21,880 Speaker 3: Thank you so much for being with us as we 573 00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:24,560 Speaker 3: head into this summer and consider what California may be 574 00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:30,520 Speaker 3: in for specifically, how concerned are you about the stability 575 00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:32,320 Speaker 3: of the grid and whether or not we may see 576 00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:34,920 Speaker 3: things like blackouts in summer twenty twenty four. 577 00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:35,800 Speaker 1: You know, thanks Chresti. 578 00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:38,040 Speaker 9: You know, we're feeling pretty good about this summer this 579 00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:41,000 Speaker 9: last several years. Just since twenty twenty, we've put over 580 00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:44,560 Speaker 9: fifteen thousand, five hundred megawatts of new generating resources onto 581 00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:48,120 Speaker 9: the system, including what is now the nation's largest fleet 582 00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:51,160 Speaker 9: of lithium ion batteries, over eight thousand, five hundred megawatts 583 00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:55,360 Speaker 9: of batteries. So we're now using that dispatual capability combined 584 00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:57,840 Speaker 9: with what is a pretty good water year for California 585 00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:01,760 Speaker 9: and expected reasonable load condition, and we're looking pretty good. Obviously, 586 00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:05,280 Speaker 9: we know that we're exposed to a West wide heat 587 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:08,120 Speaker 9: dome or other extreme events like wildfires, but generally we're 588 00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:10,280 Speaker 9: feeling guardedly optimistic about this summer. 589 00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:12,600 Speaker 1: It sounds like battery power is a big part of 590 00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:15,880 Speaker 1: the solution here to fill in the gaps. To what 591 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:19,400 Speaker 1: extent is solar also helping you well. 592 00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:22,440 Speaker 9: Solar is one of the principal developing resources in California. 593 00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:25,000 Speaker 9: We're now up to about nineteen thousand megawatts. That's a 594 00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:28,000 Speaker 9: lot of solar, and the pairing of the batteries with 595 00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:29,640 Speaker 9: the solar has really been critical. 596 00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:30,480 Speaker 2: You know, get into the. 597 00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:32,800 Speaker 9: Evening when it's still really hot and the solar energy 598 00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:35,280 Speaker 9: is coming off the system, that's when those batteries come 599 00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:36,720 Speaker 9: online and ramp into the system. 600 00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:39,760 Speaker 1: So and Donald Trump gets to this in his stump 601 00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:41,760 Speaker 1: speech and I'm not going to pull you into politics here, 602 00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:43,880 Speaker 1: but he's speaking very specifically about this. Is when the 603 00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:46,280 Speaker 1: sun goes out on a cloudy day, you can't watch TV. 604 00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:49,040 Speaker 1: Tell your wife you're not watching TV tonight. That's the 605 00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:50,280 Speaker 1: point of the battery. 606 00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:53,400 Speaker 9: Correct, absolutely, And look in the utility sector, you have 607 00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:55,800 Speaker 9: to look at everything as a portfolio, right. No single 608 00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:58,320 Speaker 9: resource can keep the lights on by itself, right, So 609 00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:01,040 Speaker 9: you have to pair the batteries in the wind with storage, 610 00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:04,000 Speaker 9: with hydro. We still use natural gas in California. It's 611 00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:06,000 Speaker 9: part of the equation during the transition. So you have 612 00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:08,720 Speaker 9: to think of a combined portfolio that can provide both 613 00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:14,200 Speaker 9: the energy and that capacity, that reliability, dispatchability under all conditions. 614 00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:17,000 Speaker 3: Okay, so if you need the portfolio, is the portfolio 615 00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:20,320 Speaker 3: currently big enough considering the demand is only going higher, 616 00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:23,719 Speaker 3: be it to power things like artificial intelligence or or 617 00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:26,000 Speaker 3: a change in climate that people are adapting to, or 618 00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:28,080 Speaker 3: do other things need to be added to the portfolio. 619 00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:29,360 Speaker 1: It's exactly right. 620 00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:33,080 Speaker 9: So a big part of our responsibility at the ISO 621 00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:35,880 Speaker 9: is to be looking out over the next five, ten, fifteen, 622 00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:39,200 Speaker 9: twenty years and trying to anticipate the changes that are coming. 623 00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:42,000 Speaker 9: We do that through transmission planning. We work very carefully 624 00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:44,600 Speaker 9: with the state agencies who do the load forecasting and 625 00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:46,960 Speaker 9: the integraded resource planning. And probably one of our single 626 00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:49,960 Speaker 9: biggest responsibilities and something that's obviously a real hot topic 627 00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:53,080 Speaker 9: here in Washington is transmission and making sure that we're 628 00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:56,320 Speaker 9: doing the planning and then eventually the constructing of the 629 00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:59,840 Speaker 9: new transmission so we can on board the resources to 630 00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:05,040 Speaker 9: reliability and affordability and economic efficiency. Right, So transmission planning 631 00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:07,960 Speaker 9: and then efficiently bringing these resources into the system is 632 00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:10,720 Speaker 9: one of our principal responsibilities. We take that very seriously. 633 00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:13,360 Speaker 1: Want to get a finer point on the new demand 634 00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:15,880 Speaker 1: from AI because this is a huge story that we're 635 00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:17,680 Speaker 1: following on I, but it's a big part of your life. 636 00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:20,240 Speaker 1: All of a sudden, the Electric Power Research Institute was 637 00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:23,520 Speaker 1: out of new numbers this morning. Fascinating to see these 638 00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:28,960 Speaker 1: regional pockets. Overall, the digital hubs where we see lots 639 00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:31,800 Speaker 1: of data centers are pulling as much as nine percent 640 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:36,600 Speaker 1: of US electricity and will by the year twenty thirty 641 00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:39,760 Speaker 1: that's up from four percent last year. But the state 642 00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:42,920 Speaker 1: by state graphics here that we're looking at show about 643 00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:47,120 Speaker 1: fifteen states occupy eighty percent of that total. Where does 644 00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:48,000 Speaker 1: California follow? 645 00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:51,240 Speaker 9: You know, California will probably be in I would say 646 00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:53,240 Speaker 9: in the middle. Maybe it's hard to tell exactly. I 647 00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:54,840 Speaker 9: think the bottom line. 648 00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:56,719 Speaker 1: Is it growing so fast you don't know now what 649 00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:57,280 Speaker 1: we're trying to do. 650 00:33:57,320 --> 00:33:59,400 Speaker 9: As a matteric just literally the week before last, sat 651 00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:02,280 Speaker 9: down full day working session with the industry with some 652 00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:04,560 Speaker 9: of the big tech developers, trying to figure out where 653 00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:06,800 Speaker 9: are these going to be located, what's the scale, what's 654 00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:09,360 Speaker 9: the size, what flexibility will they have on the system, 655 00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:12,320 Speaker 9: what will be their infrastructure requirements? So I would say 656 00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:15,640 Speaker 9: this topic is hot right now for good reason. Industry 657 00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:18,239 Speaker 9: collectively is leaning in trying to figure out what its 658 00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:22,040 Speaker 9: implications are, where the resources will be distributed, in which states, 659 00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:24,560 Speaker 9: in which parts of the country, and then move quickly 660 00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:26,439 Speaker 9: to get the infrastructure ready for them. 661 00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:29,439 Speaker 3: Well, I would imagine there is something of a lagged 662 00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:31,680 Speaker 3: effect though, in making sure that infrastructure is in place 663 00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:36,440 Speaker 3: versus the demand suddenly being there. Does demand going upwards 664 00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:38,920 Speaker 3: significantly in this specific area, I mean it has to 665 00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:43,360 Speaker 3: go down in other places, like residential conservation needs to 666 00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:45,920 Speaker 3: be potentially more serious. 667 00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:48,239 Speaker 9: So there's a couple of nuances to the question. First 668 00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:50,920 Speaker 9: of all, I would say it's also incumbent on the 669 00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:54,960 Speaker 9: technology industry and to be working closely with the utility 670 00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:57,520 Speaker 9: industry and the grid operators so we can anticipate their needs. 671 00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:00,880 Speaker 9: I think you're seeing better coordination, but that planning, coordination, 672 00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:03,319 Speaker 9: that partnership, honestly is going to be essential. They're going 673 00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:05,400 Speaker 9: to be grid citizens, They're going to have big impacts 674 00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:07,040 Speaker 9: on the grid. We need to work with them to 675 00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:09,680 Speaker 9: anticipate their needs. The second of all, it can't becoming 676 00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:12,879 Speaker 9: you know, one new source of load means somebody else 677 00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:14,239 Speaker 9: has to come off the system. We're gonna have to 678 00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:17,319 Speaker 9: deal with residential, commercial, industrial, and new sectors coming on 679 00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:20,160 Speaker 9: the system. Now that means there's going to be real growth. 680 00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:22,319 Speaker 9: We also want to make sure that that load that 681 00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:26,560 Speaker 9: consumers can provide some flexibility to the system, particularly under 682 00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:29,359 Speaker 9: extreme circumstances. So all of these things have to be 683 00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:32,920 Speaker 9: thought about and planned for in a comprehensive hole. But 684 00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:36,360 Speaker 9: you need to do long term planning to anticipate these 685 00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:38,560 Speaker 9: needs because as you know you can't just turn on 686 00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:39,960 Speaker 9: and flip the switch and have a new piece of 687 00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:41,399 Speaker 9: transmission bild in twenty four hours. 688 00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:45,920 Speaker 1: Right, I understand you're an accomplished jazz saxophone player that 689 00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:48,279 Speaker 1: says to me, you know how to add lib? How 690 00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:51,120 Speaker 1: much of this is jazz improv figuring this out as 691 00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:51,400 Speaker 1: we go? 692 00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:54,680 Speaker 9: Well, I would say put it this way. I think 693 00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:57,120 Speaker 9: we know the general rhythm and the cord changes. Okay, 694 00:35:57,239 --> 00:35:59,120 Speaker 9: you know what key, we know what key we're playing. 695 00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:01,319 Speaker 9: I think we're trying to figure out just exactly what 696 00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:03,520 Speaker 9: the scale of this issue is going to be. Okay, 697 00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:06,480 Speaker 9: I think folks are really thinking hard. Now what we 698 00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:09,319 Speaker 9: know that the laws of economics kick in right when 699 00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:14,279 Speaker 9: you have scarcity, Prices respond, Supply responds, demand responds. I 700 00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:16,040 Speaker 9: think we're trying to get a sense of just how 701 00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:18,720 Speaker 9: big is the scale of this demand on the system, 702 00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:21,680 Speaker 9: and what can the industry do to bring some flexibility 703 00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:25,480 Speaker 9: to the equation. How do we spatially locate these resources, 704 00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:27,200 Speaker 9: and how do we put them in places where the 705 00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:30,960 Speaker 9: costs of bringing the additional infrastructure are not so high 706 00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:33,200 Speaker 9: that we have ratepayer revolts. Right, that's going to be 707 00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:35,759 Speaker 9: Affordability is going to be a real consideration. 708 00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:39,800 Speaker 1: Here Culturine or Sonny Rollins, but I would wouldn't be 709 00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:42,760 Speaker 1: willing to pick both. I'm going to go with both Glada. 710 00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:44,239 Speaker 1: We mention Elliott thank you for coming to see us 711 00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:51,440 Speaker 1: that absolutely runs the California Independent System Operator, essentially the 712 00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:57,360 Speaker 1: grid in the great state of California. Thanks for listening 713 00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:00,719 Speaker 1: to the Balance of Power podcast. Make sure to subscribe 714 00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:03,480 Speaker 1: if you haven't already, at Apple, Spotify, or wherever you 715 00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:06,279 Speaker 1: get your podcasts, and you can find us live every 716 00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:10,560 Speaker 1: weekday from Washington, DC at noontime Eastern at Bloomberg dot com.