1 00:00:02,960 --> 00:00:06,920 Speaker 1: Welcome to Before Breakfast, a production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:13,760 Speaker 2: Good Morning, This is Laura. Welcome to the Before Breakfast podcast. 3 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:17,279 Speaker 2: Today's episode is going to be a longer one part 4 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:20,520 Speaker 2: of the series where I interview fascinating people about how 5 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:24,360 Speaker 2: they take their days from great to awesome and any advice. 6 00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:25,400 Speaker 3: They have for the rest of us. 7 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:28,479 Speaker 2: So today I am delighted to welcome Jenna Free to 8 00:00:28,520 --> 00:00:32,400 Speaker 2: Before Breakfast. Jenna is a therapist, an expert on ADHD, 9 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:34,559 Speaker 2: and is the author of the brand new book, The 10 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:36,920 Speaker 2: Simple Guide to ADHD Regulation. 11 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:38,640 Speaker 3: Jenna, Welcome to the show. 12 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:40,239 Speaker 4: Thank you so much for having me. 13 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:43,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, so excited to talk with you about this topic. 14 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:45,839 Speaker 1: Why don't you tell our listeners a little bit about yourself? 15 00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:49,160 Speaker 4: Absolutely so. I'm a therapist. I was diagnosed with ADHD 16 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:52,600 Speaker 4: at the age of thirty two while in grad school 17 00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:57,600 Speaker 4: to become a therapist. I have been working with clients 18 00:00:57,640 --> 00:01:01,520 Speaker 4: for about three years now, and in working with them, 19 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:06,640 Speaker 4: learned about myself and found a strong connection that adhders 20 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:09,720 Speaker 4: are almost always in fight or flight and that dysregulated 21 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:11,959 Speaker 4: state is what causes a lot of our struggles, not 22 00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:13,120 Speaker 4: the DHD itself. 23 00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:15,479 Speaker 3: Yeah, so talk about that a little bit. 24 00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:19,080 Speaker 2: Being diagnosed with ADHD as an adult, I mean for SARTs. 25 00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:21,360 Speaker 2: Did you go like, oh, yeah, that explains a lot 26 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:22,000 Speaker 2: when you heard that. 27 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:26,040 Speaker 4: Absolutely, And that's why I saw it sought it because 28 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:28,920 Speaker 4: I was like, Mmmm, this can't be normal. I don't 29 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 4: think life is supposed to be this hard. 30 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:34,320 Speaker 2: Well, what was it that was tripping tipping you off 31 00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:35,440 Speaker 2: that that might be the case. 32 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:37,720 Speaker 4: It was like for many women after I had two 33 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:41,280 Speaker 4: kids in a year and a half and everything just 34 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:45,400 Speaker 4: became too much for my coping mechanism. So I didn't 35 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 4: realize I was masking and coping and just keeping my 36 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:51,800 Speaker 4: head above water. But then when you have so much 37 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:55,120 Speaker 4: going on, it kind of shows those cracks that oh 38 00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:58,440 Speaker 4: I am not managing well and I'm overwhelmed by the 39 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:02,200 Speaker 4: thought of sweeping the floor and changing a diaper. And 40 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:03,800 Speaker 4: I don't think this is typical. 41 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:08,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, because normally when people think of, you know, 42 00:02:08,400 --> 00:02:11,720 Speaker 2: attention deficit order disorder and things like that, they're picturing 43 00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:15,919 Speaker 2: a little boy who can't sit still in class. And 44 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:18,480 Speaker 2: yet it manifests in lots of other ways. And I 45 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:20,840 Speaker 2: hear from a lot of women in particular who are 46 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:23,640 Speaker 2: high functioning that they aren't diagnosed until they're adults. 47 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:26,120 Speaker 3: I mean, what's going on there? Absolutely so. 48 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:30,600 Speaker 4: It's historically that's how we saw it, little boy running 49 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:32,960 Speaker 4: around that was the hyperactive type. But there's also the 50 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:38,200 Speaker 4: inattentive type, which is a bit more spaceiness, forgetfulness, easily overwhelmed, 51 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:42,160 Speaker 4: kind of that internal struggle and hyperactivity not so much 52 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:45,400 Speaker 4: the external. So of course, growing up that's not seen 53 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:47,200 Speaker 4: as much. It's not as much of a bother in 54 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:50,720 Speaker 4: the classroom, so people think you're doing just fine. 55 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:53,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, but it turns out that there are ways to 56 00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:56,760 Speaker 2: treat this or at least know what you're working with 57 00:02:57,240 --> 00:02:58,040 Speaker 2: so that you can. 58 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:00,000 Speaker 1: Live life in a more calm fashion. 59 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:03,359 Speaker 2: So one of the things that I read in your 60 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:08,519 Speaker 2: new book on ADHD regulation, you encourage people who are 61 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:11,840 Speaker 2: living with ADHD to not talk about like, oh my 62 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:14,520 Speaker 2: ADHD brain is making me do this, but to talk 63 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:15,640 Speaker 2: about dysregulation. 64 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:17,919 Speaker 3: What is dysregulation? 65 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:23,600 Speaker 4: Absolutely so, being a neurodivergent person living in a neurotypical world, 66 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:25,919 Speaker 4: you're going to bump up to a lot of struggles, 67 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 4: a lot of differences. Feels a little bit like a 68 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:31,639 Speaker 4: round peg in a square holes just what don't always 69 00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:34,920 Speaker 4: fit everywhere, and that will put your nervous system into 70 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:39,160 Speaker 4: a protective state where I'm on the defense, I'm hyper vigilant, 71 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 4: making sure I'm doing the right thing, I'm not late, 72 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 4: I'm not forgetting stuff. And once we get tipped into 73 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:47,640 Speaker 4: that state, you tend to get stuck in that state. 74 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 4: So I work with adults who don't know life other 75 00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:54,680 Speaker 4: than being in fight or flight or being dysregulated. So 76 00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:58,840 Speaker 4: that causes a lot of problems. Because being in fighter 77 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:02,080 Speaker 4: flight is useful when you're imminent life threatening danger, right 78 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:04,960 Speaker 4: when fight flight freeze and fawn is actually going to 79 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 4: save your life. If you are writing emails, have a 80 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:10,600 Speaker 4: long to do list, trying to organize your day, not 81 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:15,480 Speaker 4: as helpful. So that is what's actually creating so many 82 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:19,000 Speaker 4: of the problems, not the neurodivergence itself. 83 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:22,000 Speaker 2: Because people believe they're in danger, at least their nervous 84 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:24,960 Speaker 2: system believes they're in danger even though they actually aren't. 85 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:28,840 Speaker 4: Absolutely, So it's perceiving the stress, the overwhelm, all of 86 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:32,120 Speaker 4: that stuff that we've kind of it's like a flip 87 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:36,640 Speaker 4: has been switched on my system perceived danger because we're 88 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 4: very primal being still even though it was Oh, my 89 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:42,320 Speaker 4: teacher was mad at me. I got in trouble for 90 00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:45,200 Speaker 4: handing that thing in light, but we still perceive that 91 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:48,479 Speaker 4: as a bear is chasing me. And so because it's 92 00:04:48,520 --> 00:04:52,320 Speaker 4: twenty twenty six and not everybody obviously, but most of 93 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:55,960 Speaker 4: us people listening to this podcast are probably physically safe, 94 00:04:56,120 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 4: it causes a lot of problems because the blood flow 95 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:02,360 Speaker 4: actually leaves the brain and goes to the limbs when 96 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:05,440 Speaker 4: I'm trying to write emails, organize my day, prioritize I 97 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:08,960 Speaker 4: need blood float to the brain. So we really our skills, 98 00:05:09,279 --> 00:05:12,560 Speaker 4: our executive functioning goes down when we're in that state 99 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:13,000 Speaker 4: as well. 100 00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:15,719 Speaker 2: So one of the first things you need to do 101 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:18,560 Speaker 2: then if you recognize this state or recognize this about yourself, 102 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:22,560 Speaker 2: is to figure out how to calm yourself down. What 103 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:25,919 Speaker 2: are some strategies that I suppose people even who are 104 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:29,280 Speaker 2: not living with ADHD could use to calm ourselves down. 105 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:32,600 Speaker 4: Yes, being in fight or flight it can't affect anybody, right, 106 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:34,200 Speaker 4: So it's not just for eight each year's it's just 107 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 4: very common with neurodivergent people. First thing would be rushing. 108 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:42,240 Speaker 4: This is something that's not talked about as much, but 109 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:46,480 Speaker 4: regardless of the reason you're doing it, rushing is going 110 00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:48,279 Speaker 4: to signal to your body that you are in danger. 111 00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:51,400 Speaker 4: I'm getting chased by a bear, I'm moving so quickly 112 00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:54,680 Speaker 4: or even thinking so quickly that there must be danger present. 113 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:57,480 Speaker 4: So we really want to work on slowing down. So 114 00:05:57,520 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 4: if you're rushing to a meeting, we just want to walk. 115 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:04,480 Speaker 4: If you're typing out an email at breakneck speed, slow 116 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:06,960 Speaker 4: down and just do things at a pace that's a 117 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:10,320 Speaker 4: little bit more calming. And that's a great first step. 118 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 4: What else could we do. 119 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:14,280 Speaker 1: Let's go through a list of things that you would 120 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:15,200 Speaker 1: recommend some people. 121 00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:18,920 Speaker 4: Well, there's kind of three elements to the ADHD regulation 122 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:21,159 Speaker 4: method that I use with people. So first is that 123 00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:24,080 Speaker 4: physical piece. We want to tell the body we are safe, 124 00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:27,120 Speaker 4: and that's going to look like a deep breath, relaxing 125 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:32,680 Speaker 4: your shoulders, slowing down, very simple. The second piece is 126 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:35,640 Speaker 4: thought and belief regulation, which is much more complex. And 127 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:38,240 Speaker 4: we have a lot of ways of thinking and a 128 00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:44,360 Speaker 4: lot of belief systems that are rooted that are sorry, 129 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:47,599 Speaker 4: that stem from a nervous system that feels unsafe. So 130 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:50,520 Speaker 4: thoughts like I'm behind, I need to catch up, there's 131 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:53,240 Speaker 4: not enough time in the day, I should have done 132 00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:57,400 Speaker 4: that yesterday. All of those That kind of thinking keeps 133 00:06:57,480 --> 00:06:59,479 Speaker 4: us in a disregulated state, which is going to make 134 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:05,120 Speaker 4: us ineffect forget full, unorganized. So another thing is really 135 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:09,840 Speaker 4: being aware of your thinking. Are my thoughts and beliefs 136 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:16,160 Speaker 4: keeping me anxiety in anxiety? Are they keeping me rushing frazzled? 137 00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:17,720 Speaker 4: And we want to work on that as well. 138 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:20,840 Speaker 1: So how are some ways I could rewrite those scripts? 139 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:22,520 Speaker 2: Because I know a lot of people listening to this 140 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:25,080 Speaker 2: are in fact telling themselves there's not enough. 141 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:25,640 Speaker 3: Time in the day. 142 00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 2: I mean, we're all busy these days, so what could 143 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:32,120 Speaker 2: I do to stop telling myself that story? 144 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:37,880 Speaker 4: A big part of regulation work is aligning with reality, 145 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:41,280 Speaker 4: which just me to stop fighting with reality. So if 146 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 4: you're thinking there's not enough time in the day, just 147 00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:45,920 Speaker 4: think of that fight like you are going to lose 148 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:48,440 Speaker 4: that fight every time there is the time there is? 149 00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:50,680 Speaker 4: Now what can I do with it? So it's just 150 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 4: observing where am I fighting with reality? I should have 151 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:58,640 Speaker 4: done that yesterday, okay, but you didn't, So what's the reality? 152 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 4: The reality is I didn't do that? Now what? And 153 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:03,960 Speaker 4: I love the now whatk So it gives us just 154 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:08,560 Speaker 4: that forward momentum. So observing where are my thoughts and beliefs. 155 00:08:08,800 --> 00:08:11,800 Speaker 4: Fighting with reality or fighting with what is? That is 156 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:14,040 Speaker 4: a great place to work on love that. 157 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:15,880 Speaker 2: Well, we're going to take a quick ad break and 158 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:20,480 Speaker 2: I'll be back with more from Jenniffree. 159 00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:25,760 Speaker 3: Well, I am. 160 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:29,000 Speaker 2: Back talking with Jennifree, who is a therapist, an expert 161 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:31,679 Speaker 2: on ADHD, and the author of the brand new book 162 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:36,200 Speaker 2: The Simple Guide to ADHD Regulation. So I love one 163 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:38,920 Speaker 2: of your sayings that if you have to rush, there 164 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:43,199 Speaker 2: isn't time. I'm curious how you see this manifesting itself 165 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:44,920 Speaker 2: so often with people. I one thing that comes to mind, 166 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:47,239 Speaker 2: people always telling me, well, I could empty the dishwasher 167 00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:48,280 Speaker 2: before I walk out the door. 168 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:49,400 Speaker 3: It's like, well maybe you can't. 169 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:54,120 Speaker 4: Absolutely that's exactly the right example. So, especially in each years, 170 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:57,840 Speaker 4: but anybody who struggles with being on time, we will 171 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 4: blame you know, oh I'm too easily distry, or I 172 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 4: have time blindness. That's a big thing for eight each year's. 173 00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:08,320 Speaker 4: But often we've because go back to our beliefs there's 174 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:09,920 Speaker 4: not enough time in the day, so I have to 175 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:13,640 Speaker 4: squeeze everything into every possible minute I can. So I'll 176 00:09:13,679 --> 00:09:16,520 Speaker 4: just quickly unload the dishwasher. Well, you you should have 177 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:19,480 Speaker 4: left five minutes ago. Why if we have to quickly 178 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:22,679 Speaker 4: rush to do it, it's probably a sign that there's no time. 179 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:25,720 Speaker 4: Let's just put it down, we can do it later, 180 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:29,679 Speaker 4: and let's leave now. It really will retrain your system 181 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:33,080 Speaker 4: to just live in the reality that there is the 182 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:37,040 Speaker 4: time there is. We're valuing being on time more than 183 00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:40,640 Speaker 4: we are rushing to quickly get that thing done, because 184 00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:42,839 Speaker 4: every time we rush to do a task, we are 185 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:45,880 Speaker 4: also signaling to our body that we're not safe. We've 186 00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:47,839 Speaker 4: got to get into fight or flight. Blood flow is 187 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:49,720 Speaker 4: gonna leave your brain, it's gonna go to your limbs. 188 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:51,640 Speaker 4: You're not gonna be as clear thinking, You're not gonna 189 00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:54,840 Speaker 4: be able to prioritize plan. So it really is a 190 00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:59,400 Speaker 4: kind of philosophy to live by because oh, slow and 191 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:01,840 Speaker 4: steady wins like that is a saying for a reason. 192 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:06,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, what is time blindness? Maybe you can explain that 193 00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:06,400 Speaker 2: to us. 194 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:11,520 Speaker 4: So I don't know if a lot of ADHD's symptoms 195 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:16,160 Speaker 4: terminology is just summing up what we see as a 196 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:21,240 Speaker 4: struggle with ADHD. And in my work, I am proposing 197 00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:24,079 Speaker 4: that a lot of what we've assumed is ADHD is 198 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:29,360 Speaker 4: actually a dysregulated brain that's also neurodivergent, but it is 199 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:33,200 Speaker 4: a temporal distortion, meaning a distortion of time. Well, that 200 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:35,280 Speaker 4: happens when we're in fight or flight as well, So 201 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:39,360 Speaker 4: it's not exclusive to the neurodivergent brain, but it can 202 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:42,840 Speaker 4: be you know, losing track of time really easily, thinking 203 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:45,439 Speaker 4: things will take away longer than they do, thinking things 204 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:47,800 Speaker 4: will take away less time than they do, and just 205 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:50,600 Speaker 4: feeling like you can't get a grasp on organizing your 206 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:53,040 Speaker 4: time well because you can't perceive it accurately. 207 00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:56,160 Speaker 2: Are there things you can do to become a more 208 00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:57,760 Speaker 2: accurate perceiver of time? 209 00:10:58,440 --> 00:11:02,280 Speaker 4: Regulate, which is that slow down, retraining our system that 210 00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:06,720 Speaker 4: it is not in danger, aligning with reality and not 211 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:09,320 Speaker 4: fighting with reality as much. Of course, there's many more 212 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:12,280 Speaker 4: tools we can get into, but all of this leads 213 00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:15,679 Speaker 4: to a system that is calm, cool, collected. It's going 214 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:18,360 Speaker 4: to think more clearly, it's going to have less distortions, 215 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:23,760 Speaker 4: both cognitive distortions temporal distortions where we don't see things accurately. 216 00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:26,920 Speaker 4: That will all dissipate naturally with regulation. 217 00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:30,240 Speaker 2: So one of the things I always suggest to people 218 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:33,200 Speaker 2: when they're trying to figure out time is keeping track 219 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:33,480 Speaker 2: of it. 220 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:37,280 Speaker 3: And I'm curious if you think that that might. 221 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:40,480 Speaker 2: Be helpful to people I'm talking to who are neurodivergent, 222 00:11:40,559 --> 00:11:42,600 Speaker 2: or do you think they're not going to like that 223 00:11:42,679 --> 00:11:43,080 Speaker 2: at all. 224 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:46,360 Speaker 4: It can be tricky because that is what's taught to 225 00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:49,800 Speaker 4: each year is the external tools, the timers, the calendars, 226 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:54,120 Speaker 4: the planners, the tracking, the systems strategies. But what I 227 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:57,400 Speaker 4: have found is a system in fight or flight. Give 228 00:11:57,440 --> 00:12:00,160 Speaker 4: that system tools is like an umbrella and a hurricane. 229 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:03,800 Speaker 4: There is no amount of external support that's going to 230 00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:07,319 Speaker 4: make up for a system in fight or flight. So 231 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:11,360 Speaker 4: it's always working on that internal based stuff first. Then 232 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:13,760 Speaker 4: we can go, Okay, where are my missing gaps and 233 00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:15,760 Speaker 4: what tools and strategies can I use. I have a 234 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:20,240 Speaker 4: calendar that I use religiously that is so supportive of me, 235 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:23,000 Speaker 4: no matter how regulated I am. I do have a 236 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:26,560 Speaker 4: wristwatch that I wear it's just the time, so that 237 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:28,680 Speaker 4: I'm more in tune with what time it is and 238 00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:34,920 Speaker 4: have it accessible, but overly tracking. Being hyper vigilant about 239 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:38,400 Speaker 4: these things can also tip into dysregulation. Because I also 240 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:41,800 Speaker 4: have many clients who are chronically early because they are 241 00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:45,160 Speaker 4: so anxious about being late, that they'll waste forty five 242 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:47,559 Speaker 4: minutes going early and sitting and waiting. Well, that it's 243 00:12:47,559 --> 00:12:50,320 Speaker 4: not really a good solution either, So it's finding that balance. 244 00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:53,360 Speaker 1: So how do you use your calendar to support yourself? 245 00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:53,520 Speaker 3: Then? 246 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:56,520 Speaker 2: If you think that you might have some time blindness 247 00:12:56,520 --> 00:12:59,360 Speaker 2: on occasion, how does your calendar support you and moving 248 00:12:59,400 --> 00:12:59,880 Speaker 2: beyond that? 249 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:04,840 Speaker 4: Absolutely so being a regulated person as absolutely supported in 250 00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:08,240 Speaker 4: me being able to use it every single day, and 251 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:10,400 Speaker 4: I keep my old ones because I do have these 252 00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:13,520 Speaker 4: paper calendar. I use a paper calendar. It's more grounding, 253 00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:16,559 Speaker 4: it's more physical. I find that really helpful for regulation. 254 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:18,560 Speaker 4: But I'm on my fourth book of it. So this 255 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:21,959 Speaker 4: is my fourth year every single day using my calendar, 256 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:24,920 Speaker 4: and it's simply writing down what I'm going to do. 257 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:28,120 Speaker 4: But because I'm regulated, I'm mindful enough to remember to 258 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:30,760 Speaker 4: look at it. I do have it open in front 259 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:35,000 Speaker 4: of me on my desk at all times, and I'm 260 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:37,640 Speaker 4: not caught up in the perfection guilt and shame that 261 00:13:37,679 --> 00:13:40,440 Speaker 4: we can be when we're disregulated and try to use tools. 262 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:42,920 Speaker 4: I'm flexible about it. If I don't get something done, 263 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:45,760 Speaker 4: I'm completely fine crossing it off and moving it along. 264 00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:48,840 Speaker 4: So it's that flexibility I think that allows for a 265 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:50,360 Speaker 4: calendar to work for somebody. 266 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:54,319 Speaker 2: Now, you mentioned in your book this sort of analogy 267 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:58,240 Speaker 2: of viewing big projects as either a wall of bricks 268 00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:00,439 Speaker 2: in front of you or more of. 269 00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 3: A brick path. Can you talk a little bit. 270 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:04,079 Speaker 2: About that analogy and how that might be helpful for 271 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:08,800 Speaker 2: people who even are neurotypical and view big projects as 272 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:09,760 Speaker 2: almost overwhelming. 273 00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:14,800 Speaker 4: Absolutely so, if you have overwhelmed, you're not present, because 274 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:17,719 Speaker 4: you cannot be overwhelmed if you're present. So if we 275 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:20,360 Speaker 4: are thinking about a project, oh, I want to start 276 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:22,040 Speaker 4: that work project, but I'm going to have to email 277 00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:23,800 Speaker 4: those five people. I have to do that five hours 278 00:14:23,800 --> 00:14:26,000 Speaker 4: of research. I'm also going to have to write this paper. 279 00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:28,960 Speaker 4: It's like all the bricks are stacking up in front 280 00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:31,960 Speaker 4: of us, when the reality is I can only do 281 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:35,120 Speaker 4: one thing at a time. So there's the awareness of ah, 282 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:39,840 Speaker 4: I'm seeing the brick wall, which is a cognitive distortion. Right, 283 00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:43,360 Speaker 4: So that's a skewed perspective of reality. Because the reality 284 00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:46,760 Speaker 4: is time and space are linear. I can only do 285 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:49,640 Speaker 4: one thing at a time. So we can practice laying 286 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:52,400 Speaker 4: that down in our mind's eye. Okay, if this was 287 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:55,760 Speaker 4: a brick path. What is one brick I could step on? 288 00:14:56,600 --> 00:14:59,680 Speaker 4: Not what is the one right, perfect first brick? What 289 00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:03,040 Speaker 4: is a brick? Kick a step on? That mightbe A'll 290 00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:05,800 Speaker 4: email Joe and ask him that question. I have right, 291 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:09,080 Speaker 4: it's just getting into some momentum and movement and stepping 292 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:11,720 Speaker 4: on the bricks one by one instead of trying to 293 00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:14,080 Speaker 4: smash the wall down all at once. 294 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:16,880 Speaker 2: We're going to take a quick ad break and I'll 295 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:21,360 Speaker 2: be back with more from Jennifree. 296 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:26,600 Speaker 3: Well, I am. 297 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:30,960 Speaker 2: Back talking with Jennifree, therapist and ADHD expert, author of 298 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:36,240 Speaker 2: the brand new book The Simple Guide to ADHD Regulation. So, Jenna, 299 00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:39,080 Speaker 2: I'd love to move more to what your own schedule 300 00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:43,080 Speaker 2: looks like. People love to hear about people's schedules with 301 00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:45,640 Speaker 2: this show, do you what does a day look like 302 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:46,080 Speaker 2: for you? 303 00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:50,840 Speaker 4: Well, I am like a broken record. But it's I 304 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:54,440 Speaker 4: prioritize regulation, so I don't want to do too much, 305 00:15:54,520 --> 00:15:56,360 Speaker 4: I don't want to do too little. It's finding that 306 00:15:56,400 --> 00:16:00,680 Speaker 4: sweet spot. The definition of being regulated is the rate 307 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:04,600 Speaker 4: or speed at which technically a machine functions best. So 308 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:09,360 Speaker 4: having nothing on my calendar is you know, it's too open, 309 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:12,520 Speaker 4: there's too much flexibility. You kind of don't use your 310 00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:15,840 Speaker 4: time well. Also, stuffing too much in there makes it overwhelming, 311 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:19,600 Speaker 4: puts you in a paralysis, puts you into a state 312 00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:23,160 Speaker 4: where you're not very efficient and effective. So I really 313 00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:26,440 Speaker 4: have gotten good at knowing what my capacity is, knowing 314 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:30,120 Speaker 4: what's too much for me, and having that flexibility to 315 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:34,280 Speaker 4: move things around. I don't have any specifics that's rigid 316 00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:38,480 Speaker 4: every day. That flexibility is key for me to stay regulated. 317 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:43,840 Speaker 4: But I do find when I when I'm not rushing, 318 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:46,440 Speaker 4: when i have a great relationship with reality and I'm 319 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:49,800 Speaker 4: not fighting with it, the days just really flow well. 320 00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:53,280 Speaker 4: And my sound for regulation is do do do do. 321 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:56,320 Speaker 4: That's what I want my feeling to be every day 322 00:16:56,400 --> 00:16:58,480 Speaker 4: is I'm chugging along. I'm getting things done, but I'm 323 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:00,960 Speaker 4: not in a panic, not frantic. I'm not trying to 324 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:04,600 Speaker 4: squeeze fifteen things in that are unrealistic. And I'm also 325 00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:07,280 Speaker 4: not stuck and stagnant doing nothing. So that's a bit 326 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:12,280 Speaker 4: of a less tangible example, but those are the key 327 00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:15,520 Speaker 4: points that have really helped me with functioning well in 328 00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:16,399 Speaker 4: scheduling well. 329 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:19,360 Speaker 2: But of course, I mean you have children and so 330 00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:23,880 Speaker 2: they probably occasionally mess up that schedule. That sense of 331 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:26,560 Speaker 2: you know, trying to have the right amount in any 332 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:30,600 Speaker 2: given day, or you know they tend to throw curveballs 333 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:31,320 Speaker 2: into a schedule. 334 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:32,440 Speaker 3: I'm curious how. 335 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:34,960 Speaker 2: You know you deal with that, because I think that 336 00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:37,520 Speaker 2: the chaos of having young kids is again one of 337 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:40,480 Speaker 2: those things that leads people to understand that they are 338 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:43,000 Speaker 2: neurotypical and how they're reacting to it. So I'm curious 339 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:48,520 Speaker 2: how you are dealing with raising children and needing that regulation. 340 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:52,000 Speaker 4: Absolutely so, yes, I have six and seven year old boys. 341 00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:56,480 Speaker 4: We are in the thick of it. And I when 342 00:17:56,520 --> 00:18:00,600 Speaker 4: I was more dysregulated, I had so much anger and rigidity. 343 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:03,359 Speaker 4: If they woke up sick, had to stay home from daycare, 344 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:07,200 Speaker 4: I just won't forget me, like punching the matress, going ah, 345 00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:10,320 Speaker 4: how am I so frustrated by this change in plans? 346 00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:13,240 Speaker 4: And there's the rigidity that also tips me off when 347 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:16,440 Speaker 4: someone is neurodivergent and in a fight or flight. Now, 348 00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:19,240 Speaker 4: in a more regulated state, I plan as best I can, 349 00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:23,200 Speaker 4: but again that alignment with reality. The reality is he's homesick. Okay, 350 00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:26,160 Speaker 4: what am I gonna do? Right? How am I gonna 351 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:29,080 Speaker 4: work with the reality I have? And instead of spending 352 00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:32,440 Speaker 4: so much of my time and energy fighting with he 353 00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:34,640 Speaker 4: should If he hadn't been home, I would have gotten 354 00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:37,840 Speaker 4: this done. I would well, here we are, how do 355 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:39,920 Speaker 4: I deal with it? So it's so much easier to 356 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:46,440 Speaker 4: roll with the punches, except reality adjusts things accordingly without it. 357 00:18:46,520 --> 00:18:48,000 Speaker 4: Derael like everything. Well. 358 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:50,040 Speaker 2: Do you have any routines though that you think make 359 00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:52,600 Speaker 2: you more productive? I mean, even if days are different, 360 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:54,199 Speaker 2: are there any sort of routines you make sure to 361 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:55,359 Speaker 2: follow as much as you can? 362 00:18:56,760 --> 00:19:00,160 Speaker 4: I do just get out of bed when my alarm goes. 363 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:03,520 Speaker 4: That is something I could not do when I was disregulated, 364 00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:05,160 Speaker 4: and I know for eight each year it's very hard 365 00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:07,800 Speaker 4: to wake up in the morning. But when you are 366 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:13,400 Speaker 4: more present and less stuck in your thinking, I do 367 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:15,560 Speaker 4: find I just don't even think about it. I just 368 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:18,320 Speaker 4: stand up and mows you through my day, So that 369 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:23,960 Speaker 4: really helps I do. Something that I kind of connected 370 00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:26,480 Speaker 4: is if I'm already going out, it's so much easier 371 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:28,120 Speaker 4: for me to go to the gym. So I'm lucky 372 00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:31,160 Speaker 4: enough to have a flexible schedule where after I drop 373 00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:32,800 Speaker 4: my kids off from school, if I go straight to 374 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:35,880 Speaker 4: the gym, I'm going to go. If I come home first, 375 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:38,880 Speaker 4: I ain't going. So it's some little things I've learned 376 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:41,960 Speaker 4: about myself that I try to honor as much as possible, 377 00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:45,200 Speaker 4: So that has helped. But everyone's gonna be so different 378 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:46,040 Speaker 4: in what works for them. 379 00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:48,879 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, although I'm sure exercise does help in general, 380 00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:51,239 Speaker 2: right getting physical activity is that a good way to 381 00:19:51,359 --> 00:19:52,400 Speaker 2: regulate oneself? 382 00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:57,720 Speaker 4: Absolutely ideally, And if you are in fight or flight, 383 00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:01,280 Speaker 4: you're in survival mode. You are just keeping your head 384 00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:05,120 Speaker 4: above water. I do not ask anyone who is drowning 385 00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:08,280 Speaker 4: to go work out as the first step. So it 386 00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:10,399 Speaker 4: is a beautiful thing if you can do it, but 387 00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:12,359 Speaker 4: that is not something we have to do right away 388 00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:15,360 Speaker 4: in order to regulate excellent. 389 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:18,159 Speaker 2: So, Jenna, I always ask my guests, what is something 390 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:21,399 Speaker 2: you have done recently to take a day from great 391 00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:22,200 Speaker 2: to awesome? 392 00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:27,439 Speaker 4: I think the biggest thing that makes a lot of 393 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:33,200 Speaker 4: my days awesome is really connecting with my belief that 394 00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:36,000 Speaker 4: the day is meant to be enjoyed, not just to 395 00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:38,200 Speaker 4: check off the to do list. So I really try 396 00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:41,080 Speaker 4: to enjoy the process of the day. Doesn't mean I'm 397 00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:43,840 Speaker 4: playing hooky at work, doesn't mean I'm going to Disneyland 398 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:46,920 Speaker 4: every day. But even in you know, writing emails. Can 399 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:49,639 Speaker 4: I sit in somewhere comfortable. Can I do it at 400 00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:51,920 Speaker 4: a pace that's not painful? Can I make this as 401 00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:56,399 Speaker 4: pleasurable as possible, Because especially if you're neurodivergent and or 402 00:20:56,680 --> 00:20:59,560 Speaker 4: just regulated, feeling in a rush, always like you're behind 403 00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:02,440 Speaker 4: and each catch up, we really can live our lives 404 00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:03,760 Speaker 4: in a way where we're just trying to get it 405 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:06,159 Speaker 4: over with, just trying to get things done so I 406 00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:09,000 Speaker 4: can move on to the next thing soon enough. You've 407 00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:11,040 Speaker 4: looked back in the past month has flown by, and 408 00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:13,280 Speaker 4: you haven't soaked up any of it. So I think 409 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:15,760 Speaker 4: it's a big shift if you people can even bring 410 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:18,159 Speaker 4: that up to the same priority level. Okay, yes, I 411 00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:20,320 Speaker 4: want to get things done. I want to work my 412 00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:23,320 Speaker 4: schedule and do it well. I also want to enjoy 413 00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:25,880 Speaker 4: the experience, because for most of us we are forgetting 414 00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:26,920 Speaker 4: that part entirely. 415 00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:29,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, what are you looking forward to right now? 416 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:31,280 Speaker 1: Speaking of enjoying things. 417 00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:35,200 Speaker 4: I am looking forward to. I am a big traveler. 418 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:38,080 Speaker 4: I'm going to Vegas in a few weeks with some friends, 419 00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:42,840 Speaker 4: and I do love a change in schedule. That being said, 420 00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:47,760 Speaker 4: love my routine, love a schedule, and oh my gosh, 421 00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:50,040 Speaker 4: to have a break from it can be such a reset. 422 00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:52,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, well that should be a lot of fun. I 423 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:54,520 Speaker 2: hear you like all sorts of random hobbies too. That 424 00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:57,359 Speaker 2: was one of the things I saw on your bio. 425 00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:04,680 Speaker 4: Yes, very eighth. She think as well. Uh, I've been sewing, tennis, acting, yoga. 426 00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:07,440 Speaker 4: They kind of come and go. But I do love 427 00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:09,119 Speaker 4: a love a good hobby. 428 00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:11,960 Speaker 2: Follow your fancy at the moment, for sure. So Jenna, 429 00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:14,240 Speaker 2: where can people find you? 430 00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:17,560 Speaker 4: You can find me at ADHD with Jennifree dot com, 431 00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:21,080 Speaker 4: slash groups that's all about my work, and on social 432 00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:22,879 Speaker 4: media at ADHD with Jennifree. 433 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:23,640 Speaker 3: Awesome. 434 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:25,840 Speaker 1: Well, Jenna, thank you so much for joining us. 435 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:27,400 Speaker 3: Thank you to everyone for listening. 436 00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:30,080 Speaker 1: If you have feedback on this or any. 437 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:32,959 Speaker 2: Other episode, you can always reach me at Laura at 438 00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:36,800 Speaker 2: Laura vandercam dot com. In the meantime, this is Laura, 439 00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:40,560 Speaker 2: Thanks for listening, and here's to making the most of 440 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:41,040 Speaker 2: our time. 441 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:52,080 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to Before Breakfast. If you've got questions, ideas, 442 00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:55,600 Speaker 1: or feedback, you can reach me at Laura at Laura 443 00:22:55,720 --> 00:23:05,040 Speaker 1: vandercam dot com. Before Breakfast is a production of iHeartMedia. 444 00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:09,639 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartMedia. Please visit the iHeartRadio app, 445 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:13,199 Speaker 1: Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.