1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:04,000 Speaker 1: Welcome. It is a verdict, was Senator Ted Cruz Ben 2 00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:07,960 Speaker 1: Ferguson with you, Senator history, and a terrible way was 3 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:10,840 Speaker 1: made in America. Donald Trump, a former president United States 4 00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:17,600 Speaker 1: of America, was arrested and was treated like a criminal 5 00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:20,440 Speaker 1: by the media and by many people that were celebrating 6 00:00:20,440 --> 00:00:24,120 Speaker 1: this day they've been fighting for since twenty sixteen. Before 7 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:26,360 Speaker 1: I even play as lawyers, I want to get your 8 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:30,400 Speaker 1: initial reaction to watching this today. Yesterday was a sad day. 9 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:35,600 Speaker 1: It was pitiful, It was an abusive power, it was partisan, 10 00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:39,320 Speaker 1: and I got to say my biggest sentiment from yesterday 11 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:44,519 Speaker 1: was that it was underwhelming. You and I have been 12 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:48,879 Speaker 1: talking now for a week about this impending indictment, and 13 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:53,120 Speaker 1: we laid out the grounds on which the indictment was expected, 14 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:55,320 Speaker 1: and I got to say, a bunch of lefties on 15 00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:58,920 Speaker 1: Twitter were coming after us saying, well, how can Cruz No, 16 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:03,520 Speaker 1: this can't possibly be the case. There the indictment is seen, 17 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:08,840 Speaker 1: there's more there. It reminded me of the breathless apprehension 18 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:12,199 Speaker 1: that the left had for the Muller Report. The Mulla 19 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:14,680 Speaker 1: Report was going to prove everything. I still remember you 20 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:17,040 Speaker 1: remember the S and L episode where Robert de Niro 21 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:19,560 Speaker 1: played Robert Mueller, and they ask you, you know, do 22 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:21,760 Speaker 1: you have the goods? He's like, I got I got him, 23 00:01:21,880 --> 00:01:25,760 Speaker 1: I got him, And oh, every Democrat heart went pitter patter, 24 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:27,400 Speaker 1: pitter patter. It's got to be there. It's got to 25 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:29,040 Speaker 1: be there, it's got to be there. Well, for the 26 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:32,120 Speaker 1: last week, as you and I have been analyzing what 27 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:36,520 Speaker 1: was expected in this indictment, lefties on Twitter we're saying, no, no, no, 28 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:41,680 Speaker 1: you haven't seen the indictment. You don't know what's there. Well, 29 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:45,240 Speaker 1: you know what we've seen. Now we've seen the indictment, 30 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:50,760 Speaker 1: and there ain't nothing there. It was so utterly and 31 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:53,600 Speaker 1: completely underwhelming. In fact, I gotta say one of the 32 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:57,920 Speaker 1: more amusing things so on Twitter, you know what's trending, 33 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:04,800 Speaker 1: even CNN, the words even CNN, because even CNN said, 34 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:10,079 Speaker 1: all right, this is underwhelming. This ain't nothing. The entire 35 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:15,320 Speaker 1: indictment consists of thirty four counts of the same thing, 36 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:18,240 Speaker 1: and the same thing is what we've been telling you 37 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:21,120 Speaker 1: for a week it was going to be, which is 38 00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:24,480 Speaker 1: a violation of New York penal law one seventy five 39 00:02:24,919 --> 00:02:30,040 Speaker 1: one zero. Now, as you recall New York penal law 40 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:33,639 Speaker 1: makes it a misdemeanor to create a false business record. 41 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:37,079 Speaker 1: That misdemeanor has a two year statute of limitation. So 42 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:41,399 Speaker 1: Alvin Bragg had charged Trump on the misdemeanor, the case 43 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:44,360 Speaker 1: would be thrown out immediately because more than two years 44 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:48,400 Speaker 1: has passed since twenty sixteen. So he had to instead 45 00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:52,560 Speaker 1: proceed under a different New York penal law, section one 46 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:56,520 Speaker 1: seventy five point one zero. To do that, he had 47 00:02:56,600 --> 00:03:00,120 Speaker 1: to allege that it was a false business record in 48 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:05,360 Speaker 1: furtherance of another crime. That is the bootstrap through which 49 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:09,079 Speaker 1: he can elevate under New York law a misdemeanor into 50 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:13,160 Speaker 1: a felony and get a longer statute of limitations. Well, that's, 51 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:15,800 Speaker 1: in fact, exactly what he did. All thirty four counts, 52 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:18,840 Speaker 1: same thing, over and over and over again. But I 53 00:03:18,919 --> 00:03:23,680 Speaker 1: got to say the amazing thing. The indictment doesn't specify 54 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:27,480 Speaker 1: what the other crime is that this was allegedly in 55 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 1: furtherance of. In other words, it just repeats false business record, 56 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:33,920 Speaker 1: false business record, false business record, and it has the 57 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:39,000 Speaker 1: boilerplate language in furtherance of another crime. But it's almost 58 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 1: like the district attorney said, never mind, we don't know 59 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:43,240 Speaker 1: what that other crime is. Look, you and I had 60 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:46,000 Speaker 1: speculated on this podcast what the other crime could be. 61 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:49,000 Speaker 1: It might have been. The most likely candidate was a 62 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 1: federal campaign finance violation, which raises all sorts of problems, 63 00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 1: but that was the most likely alleged crime. Well, Alvin 64 00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 1: Bragg didn't allege that, he didn't specify what the crime is. 65 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:06,920 Speaker 1: That's truly amazing. It's underwhelming. This case is nothing but politics, 66 00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:09,920 Speaker 1: and the result is it's going to be thrown out. 67 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:11,880 Speaker 1: You know. One of the interesting things that you just 68 00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:18,720 Speaker 1: mentioned was the shock of how this indictment was so absurd, 69 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:20,800 Speaker 1: to the fact that he's saying, well, there was a 70 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:23,039 Speaker 1: crime that was committed, possibly, but we won't tell you 71 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:24,760 Speaker 1: what the crime is. Well, the whole point of an 72 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:27,640 Speaker 1: indictment is so that the accused knows what they're being 73 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:30,760 Speaker 1: accused of. Donald Trump went home not knowing what he 74 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:34,800 Speaker 1: was accused of, and even his lawyers when they walked 75 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:38,680 Speaker 1: out of that courtroom, they seemed to be dumbfounded at 76 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:41,640 Speaker 1: the idea that we were even at a point where 77 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 1: you would have an indictment, a thirty four count indictment, 78 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:47,159 Speaker 1: and you still wouldn't know what the actual crime is 79 00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:50,360 Speaker 1: that they're accusing of committing. And Alan Bragg's like, well, 80 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:52,480 Speaker 1: you know it could be. Well, we'll let you know. 81 00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:54,960 Speaker 1: We didn't list it. We don't have to list it. 82 00:04:55,279 --> 00:04:57,719 Speaker 1: Here's his attorney's trumps of trains with their own words 83 00:04:57,560 --> 00:05:02,320 Speaker 1: that just happen to somebody who was the president of 84 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:05,960 Speaker 1: the United States, and UM, on the one hand, On 85 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:10,160 Speaker 1: the one hand, there's not really any surprises. UM. I 86 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:11,920 Speaker 1: know there was a lot of talk over the past 87 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:15,000 Speaker 1: several weeks, in the past several days about what's going 88 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:16,839 Speaker 1: to be in this indictment and what's going to be 89 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:19,960 Speaker 1: there that UM, we don't know. There must be something 90 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 1: besides what we've been talking about for the past, um 91 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:27,680 Speaker 1: four or five years. There wasn't, there's nothing. The indictment 92 00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:33,239 Speaker 1: itself is boiler plate. It doesn't allege, UM, any federal crime, 93 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:35,919 Speaker 1: any state crime that's been violated. It doesn't allege what 94 00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:39,880 Speaker 1: the false statement is, UM. And it's really disappointing. It's sad, 95 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 1: and we're gonna fight it. We're gonna fight it. Were 96 00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:47,599 Speaker 1: you surprised, Were you surprised by anything in the adictment? No, 97 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:49,680 Speaker 1: how about you, Joe, I was surprised there were no 98 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:52,880 Speaker 1: faction there. I mean normally in an indictment have alleged facts. 99 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:55,160 Speaker 1: So they said that this was a false business record 100 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:57,720 Speaker 1: entry to the agent, but another crime. We're not seeing 101 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:01,480 Speaker 1: what the other crime was. I mean, the last thing 102 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:04,119 Speaker 1: that he said there was it's aiding ebetting another crime, 103 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:05,880 Speaker 1: and they don't list with the other crime is have 104 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:09,719 Speaker 1: you ever seen something that is basically this incomplete to 105 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:12,000 Speaker 1: charge someone, especially at the level of the President of 106 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:16,839 Speaker 1: the United States of America. Yeah, Look, maybe on a 107 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:23,160 Speaker 1: half assed indictment of someone convicted of shoplifting or joy 108 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:26,680 Speaker 1: riding in a car, but not in a high profile, 109 00:06:26,839 --> 00:06:30,120 Speaker 1: serious case. Listen, the district attorney knew that everyone on 110 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:32,720 Speaker 1: earth would fly suspect this indictment. They would read it. 111 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:37,240 Speaker 1: This indictment. To be honest, a first year law student 112 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:40,040 Speaker 1: could cut and pace and produce this indictment Number one, 113 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:41,960 Speaker 1: the thirty four counts. I have to admit I was 114 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:44,359 Speaker 1: kind of curious, Okay, what are the thirty four things 115 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:46,839 Speaker 1: he's done? I didn't know about thirty four things he 116 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:49,960 Speaker 1: was alleged to have done. Well, it turns out the 117 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:54,240 Speaker 1: thirty four counts are just thirty four individual entries in 118 00:06:54,279 --> 00:06:59,800 Speaker 1: the bookkeeping. So it is the same basic crime alleged 119 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:03,680 Speaker 1: to have occurred month by month by month. Also, Alvin 120 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:06,800 Speaker 1: Bragg did something quite unusual, so he released the indictment 121 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:10,440 Speaker 1: and then he released an additional document called a statement 122 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:15,080 Speaker 1: of facts. Now, usually an indictment includes some pretty specific 123 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:18,400 Speaker 1: factual allegations. This one doesn't at all. It just has 124 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 1: the boiler plant language about false bookkeeping records in furtherance 125 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 1: of another crime. Doesn't specify what the other crime is. 126 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:29,560 Speaker 1: The statement of facts is intended to be more of 127 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:32,120 Speaker 1: a narrative. It frankly as a media document. It was 128 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:37,280 Speaker 1: meant for media consumption, and it describes what the prosecutors 129 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 1: think went on, and it talks about several things. One 130 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 1: of the things that talks about is the National Inquirer 131 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:47,680 Speaker 1: and the National Enquirer their publisher David Pecker. By the way, 132 00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 1: I will say, as an aside, talk about someone named 133 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:53,600 Speaker 1: out of Charles Dickens. I'm not a fan of this 134 00:07:53,760 --> 00:08:02,040 Speaker 1: particular individual. It is God has a sense of humor. 135 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:06,960 Speaker 1: But the indictment describes how Trump met with David Pecker 136 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:09,760 Speaker 1: and had a plan that the National Inquirer was going 137 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:15,000 Speaker 1: to assist in Trump's presidential campaign. Now you might like that, 138 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:20,320 Speaker 1: you might not like that, but it's not criminal. And 139 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 1: let me be clear, I don't exactly have an absence 140 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:31,840 Speaker 1: of sentiments on this because when the National Inquirer got 141 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:34,920 Speaker 1: in bed with the Trump campaign, the first target they 142 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:39,120 Speaker 1: directed their enmity at was me. Yeah, and they ran 143 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:43,000 Speaker 1: multiple stories, the most ludicrous of which was alleging that 144 00:08:43,040 --> 00:08:48,640 Speaker 1: my father had killed JFK. Look, that is part of 145 00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:51,840 Speaker 1: what David Pecker made a decision. He was essentially tried 146 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:54,839 Speaker 1: to do everything he could to elect Donald Trump. So 147 00:08:55,040 --> 00:09:00,360 Speaker 1: that's part of this indictment, not concerning me, thankfully, but 148 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:06,200 Speaker 1: concerning attacks on Donald Trump and people who came forward 149 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:12,000 Speaker 1: with allegations against Donald Trump, where the National Enquirer agreed 150 00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 1: to work to try to quash those stories. Now, listen, 151 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:21,439 Speaker 1: whether you like or dislike media outlets deciding they want 152 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:25,120 Speaker 1: to support a particular candidate and help them. That happens 153 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:30,120 Speaker 1: in politics all the time. Yeah, unless you're prepared to 154 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:36,440 Speaker 1: indict abcnbccbs CNN, AN MSNBC for crawling in bed and 155 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:41,760 Speaker 1: spooning with Joe Biden, then that is not in fact 156 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:47,120 Speaker 1: criminal conduct. Whether you agree or disagree with the political 157 00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:52,760 Speaker 1: decision that particular media outlet makes. So the statement of 158 00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:57,559 Speaker 1: facts also details a couple of different payments. Want a 159 00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:01,120 Speaker 1: payment that went to Karen mc dougal for one hundred 160 00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:05,160 Speaker 1: and fifty thousand dollars. Secondly, a payment that went to 161 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:08,360 Speaker 1: Stormy Daniels for one hundred and thirty thousand dollars. Now, 162 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:10,480 Speaker 1: those are both women who alleged that they had had 163 00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 1: affairs with Donald Trump. I don't know if that's true 164 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:15,400 Speaker 1: or false, but that's what they alleged, and the indictment 165 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:18,319 Speaker 1: alleged that Trump paid them one hundred and fifty thousand 166 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:22,320 Speaker 1: dollars one hundred thirty thousand dollars respectively. As we've discussed 167 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:27,480 Speaker 1: on the podcast, whether that's true or false, that's not illegal. 168 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:32,079 Speaker 1: There's no law in New York state against an individual 169 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:34,080 Speaker 1: having an affair. There's no law in New York State 170 00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:38,400 Speaker 1: against an individual paying anyone involved in an affair not 171 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:41,120 Speaker 1: to talk about it publicly. That is all entirely legal. 172 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:45,440 Speaker 1: What is alleged in this statement of fact is that 173 00:10:45,559 --> 00:10:50,560 Speaker 1: Michael Cohen, the personal attorney to Donald Trump, paid one 174 00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:54,080 Speaker 1: hundred and thirty thousand dollars to Stormy Daniels, and that 175 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:58,040 Speaker 1: Trump then reimbursed Michael Cohen and we now know. So 176 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:00,600 Speaker 1: the math that's laid out in the State of Facts 177 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 1: is that Cohen paid one hundred and thirty thousand dollars 178 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:07,640 Speaker 1: to Stormy Daniels and then apparently fifty thousand dollars for quote, 179 00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:10,880 Speaker 1: another expense, and it doesn't tell us what this other 180 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:13,800 Speaker 1: expense is. So that's one hundred and thirty thousand plus 181 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:17,280 Speaker 1: fifty thousand, that's one hundred and eighty thousand, and apparently 182 00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:19,520 Speaker 1: what happened is they took that one hundred eighty thousand, 183 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:23,360 Speaker 1: they doubled it to three hundred and sixty thousand, because 184 00:11:23,440 --> 00:11:26,160 Speaker 1: when Michael Cohen was paid back, he would have to 185 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:29,680 Speaker 1: pay taxes federal taxes and state taxes for the money 186 00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:32,360 Speaker 1: being paid. So the basic math was, if you pay 187 00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:34,360 Speaker 1: him three hundred and sixty thousand dollars and he pays 188 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:37,439 Speaker 1: fifty percent taxes, he would recoup his one hundred and 189 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 1: eighty thousand dollars. And then they decided to pay him 190 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:44,079 Speaker 1: an additional sixty thousand dollars on top of that, which 191 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:47,360 Speaker 1: the Statement of Facts calls a supplemental year end bonus. 192 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:53,320 Speaker 1: So all in he was paid four hundred and twenty 193 00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:56,480 Speaker 1: thousand dollars. And that was paid in a series of 194 00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:58,960 Speaker 1: payments of thirty five thousand dollars a month. And by 195 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:02,600 Speaker 1: the way, what are the thirty four counts. It's each 196 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:04,959 Speaker 1: of those payments. It's each of the record keeping. It's 197 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:10,440 Speaker 1: literally entering it into the books. That's account writing, the check, 198 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:13,960 Speaker 1: that's account, and that's account in the month of January, 199 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:15,800 Speaker 1: it's account in the month of February, it's account in 200 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:18,719 Speaker 1: the month of March, April, May, June, July. That's how 201 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:20,880 Speaker 1: they get to their thirty four counts. So in translations, 202 00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:24,000 Speaker 1: the same damn thing over and over again, and that's 203 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:27,880 Speaker 1: how they got to it's each month's payment. Yes, so 204 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:32,440 Speaker 1: each month's payment. Wow. And when you hear it that way, 205 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:36,200 Speaker 1: it makes you even more angry at what has happened 206 00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:39,040 Speaker 1: here and the fact that Donald Trump is even having 207 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:42,160 Speaker 1: to send in this scenario. And there were even people 208 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:45,480 Speaker 1: in the media that were asking questions about this, like, 209 00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:48,200 Speaker 1: are you sure this is a really good idea? There 210 00:12:48,280 --> 00:12:51,800 Speaker 1: was an NBC News reporter that confronted Brag about the 211 00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:55,120 Speaker 1: previous da and the Feds not pursuing these exact charges 212 00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:57,400 Speaker 1: against Trump. I want to play that. Before I get that, 213 00:12:57,480 --> 00:12:58,800 Speaker 1: I want to tell you about our friends that guests 214 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:01,040 Speaker 1: the Precious Medals. 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I want to play 238 00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:26,320 Speaker 1: for you this NBC News reporter because I think the 239 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:30,160 Speaker 1: media was also honestly shocked at how weak this indictment, 240 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:34,080 Speaker 1: This thirty four count indictment was for quote felonies out 241 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:37,760 Speaker 1: of thin air, and NBC News called brag out for this, 242 00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:49,760 Speaker 1: saying like, hey, did you screw up basically listen, reservations, readiness, 243 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:51,960 Speaker 1: What was the questions in your mind that needed to 244 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:58,640 Speaker 1: be up screw I'm not going to go chapter and 245 00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:01,960 Speaker 1: verse into many thinking. What I will say is I 246 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:03,840 Speaker 1: believe the time period you're talking about, I'd been in 247 00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:09,320 Speaker 1: office for a couple of months. The investigation, in my view, 248 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:13,160 Speaker 1: was not concluded into the conduct in particular, that is 249 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:16,160 Speaker 1: the base for the charges Today. Since that time, we've 250 00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:19,960 Speaker 1: had more evidence made available to the office and opportunity 251 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:23,480 Speaker 1: to meet with additional witnesses. So, as I said earlier, 252 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:27,080 Speaker 1: I've been doing this for twenty four years. I don't 253 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:31,880 Speaker 1: bring cases prior to author and rigorous investigation. Now having 254 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:35,720 Speaker 1: done so, the case has been brought Rad Garrett Hayker, 255 00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:38,440 Speaker 1: NBC News. Your predecessor took a hard look at this 256 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:41,320 Speaker 1: case and decided not to charge it. Federal prosecutors took 257 00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:43,000 Speaker 1: a hard look at this case and decided not to 258 00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:45,560 Speaker 1: charge it. Do you believe you have new evidence that 259 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:49,080 Speaker 1: led you to decide to charge this for why? Now, 260 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:53,720 Speaker 1: as I just mentioned, we had available to the office 261 00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:57,120 Speaker 1: additional evidence that was not in the office's possession prior 262 00:15:57,160 --> 00:16:01,000 Speaker 1: to my time here. And as to you you're part 263 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:04,320 Speaker 1: of your question about the federal we have a strong, 264 00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:07,480 Speaker 1: i would say profound independent interests in New York State. 265 00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:11,800 Speaker 1: This is the business capital of the world. We regularly 266 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:17,680 Speaker 1: do cases involving false business statements. The bedrock, in fact, 267 00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:22,000 Speaker 1: the basis for business integrity and a well functioning business 268 00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:25,320 Speaker 1: marketplace is true and accurate record keeping. That's the charge 269 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:29,960 Speaker 1: of thought here, falsefying New York State business records. So, Senator, 270 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:33,680 Speaker 1: he's making up two different things here. One is when 271 00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:36,440 Speaker 1: we have the new evidence, doesn't have to share that 272 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:39,240 Speaker 1: with Donald Trump and this indictment. Wouldn't you have to 273 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:42,280 Speaker 1: say what that new evidence is? Number one and two 274 00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:44,520 Speaker 1: then then he basically doesn't tell you what it is 275 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:48,720 Speaker 1: and goes back to the original statement. Yeah, there's virtually 276 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:52,280 Speaker 1: no new evidence in this indictment or this statement of fact. 277 00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:55,400 Speaker 1: This is all based on allegations that have been around 278 00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:58,920 Speaker 1: for years, have been around for many years that prosecutor 279 00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:01,480 Speaker 1: after prosecutor of look and concluded that there was not 280 00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:07,480 Speaker 1: a crime they could prosecute. Where are we now? Trump 281 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:11,800 Speaker 1: came into court, he pleaded not guilty, he left. It 282 00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:14,720 Speaker 1: ended up the DA made an interesting decision. They didn't 283 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:16,840 Speaker 1: do the mug shot. And by the way, the decision 284 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:21,480 Speaker 1: not to do the mug shot was entirely political. You 285 00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:23,879 Speaker 1: and I predicted on this podcast. By the way, I 286 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:27,000 Speaker 1: want to take a moment of victory lap on this 287 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:30,359 Speaker 1: podcast on Monday, I said Trump will come in wearing 288 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:35,879 Speaker 1: a Chris blue a beautiful blue blue suit, a Chris 289 00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:39,280 Speaker 1: white shirt, and a bright red Donald J. Trump tie. 290 00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:42,720 Speaker 1: That is exactly what he was wearing. The only piece 291 00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:45,480 Speaker 1: I did not accurately predict is I didn't realize that 292 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:48,840 Speaker 1: that Alvin Bragg would be so political he'd decide, Okay, 293 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:50,879 Speaker 1: we now have the first defendant in the history of 294 00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:54,000 Speaker 1: New York City who doesn't get a mug shot, So 295 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:56,280 Speaker 1: they skipped the mugshot because they didn't want to give 296 00:17:56,280 --> 00:17:58,760 Speaker 1: the picture to Trump. So instead we have pictures from 297 00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:03,000 Speaker 1: him in the courtroom in exactly the attire that we 298 00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:06,159 Speaker 1: predicted on this podcast that let's go to scream to 299 00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:08,240 Speaker 1: the politics of this though, that's so political that you 300 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:10,159 Speaker 1: didn't even give the mug chat because I didn't want 301 00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:14,199 Speaker 1: him to use it. Yes, can you use that? As 302 00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:19,719 Speaker 1: they realize the mug shot. Well, so the next step 303 00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:25,240 Speaker 1: Trump is scheduled to go back to court December fourth. Now, listen, 304 00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:28,680 Speaker 1: it's early April. December fourth is a really long time away. 305 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:33,520 Speaker 1: That's weird. That's weird that it's dragging along that slowly. 306 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:38,600 Speaker 1: In the meantime, it is a virtual certainty that Trump's 307 00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:41,639 Speaker 1: legal team will file a motion to dismiss, and they 308 00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:44,800 Speaker 1: might file emotion to smiss on multiple grounds. One ground 309 00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:48,040 Speaker 1: they could file is is that the indictment is deficient. 310 00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:53,080 Speaker 1: The entire basis for getting around the statute of limitations 311 00:18:53,119 --> 00:18:55,879 Speaker 1: and making it a felony is that that the false 312 00:18:55,920 --> 00:18:59,760 Speaker 1: business records allegedly were in furtherance of another crime. They 313 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:01,960 Speaker 1: don't specify what that crime is. That's One of the 314 00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:05,200 Speaker 1: first grounds on which you'd file emotion is to say, 315 00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:07,880 Speaker 1: if you don't specify what the crime is, you have 316 00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:11,399 Speaker 1: not pleaded the crime under New York state law. I 317 00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:14,080 Speaker 1: think that a motion to dismiss on that basis is 318 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:17,280 Speaker 1: quite likely. I think you're also likely to see a 319 00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:19,760 Speaker 1: motion to dismiss, maybe the same motion, maybe a different 320 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:25,600 Speaker 1: motion based on vindictive or selected prosecution. Alvin Bragg ran 321 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 1: for office, and on his campaign, on the campaign trail, 322 00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:37,359 Speaker 1: he promised to quote get Trump. That is, on its face, 323 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:41,919 Speaker 1: it's screams of selective prosecution. That this is a political 324 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:45,440 Speaker 1: left wing Democrat who wanted to go after a political 325 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:48,720 Speaker 1: opponent that he hated, and that's what was going on here. 326 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:53,760 Speaker 1: I think we will see that issue litigated early on 327 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:56,560 Speaker 1: at the outset. I think another issue that you're likely 328 00:19:56,600 --> 00:20:01,879 Speaker 1: to see raised the entire basis of the crime, alleged crime, 329 00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:05,320 Speaker 1: is that these were false business records. It's not clear 330 00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:08,640 Speaker 1: that the records that issue are business records at all. 331 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:14,080 Speaker 1: Donald Trump paid these funds from his personal accounts or 332 00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:20,480 Speaker 1: the blind trust that was erected to hold his assets 333 00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:23,760 Speaker 1: while he was president. In other words, it wasn't from 334 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:27,639 Speaker 1: the Trump corporation. It wasn't a business entity. Now, the 335 00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:31,399 Speaker 1: statement of facts refers to some personnel in the Trump 336 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:34,520 Speaker 1: organization who were involved in cutting the checks. But the 337 00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:38,880 Speaker 1: checks they cut, we're not business checks. They were checks 338 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:43,760 Speaker 1: from Trump's personal funds. And so listen, if Ben Ferguson 339 00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:47,840 Speaker 1: writes a check to somebody, that is not a business 340 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:51,439 Speaker 1: record under the ordinary interpretation of it. So that's another 341 00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:55,560 Speaker 1: ground on which I would expect this to be litigated 342 00:20:55,600 --> 00:21:01,720 Speaker 1: and challenged. And I think all of those are series grounds. 343 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:05,760 Speaker 1: This indictment was not brought to get a conviction. This 344 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:09,240 Speaker 1: indictment was not brought to try to actually put Trump 345 00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:13,840 Speaker 1: in jail. This indictment was brought to be a political smear. 346 00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:17,480 Speaker 1: And the irony is in that one regard as a 347 00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:22,919 Speaker 1: political smear. It is horrendously inept. In other words, listen, 348 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:25,960 Speaker 1: I'll be surprised if next week Trump is not at 349 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:30,000 Speaker 1: sixty percent in the GOP primary. I've already described how 350 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:34,639 Speaker 1: this is the single greatest in kind contribution to the 351 00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:38,200 Speaker 1: Trump twenty twenty four campaign that I've ever seen, brought 352 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:44,240 Speaker 1: by Alvin Bragg, the left wing George Soros Democrat DA. 353 00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:50,200 Speaker 1: So if their purpose was a political smear. It titilated 354 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:55,040 Speaker 1: the excitement of the left who hates Trump, but I 355 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:57,359 Speaker 1: don't think it succeeded in the purpose that they hoped 356 00:21:57,359 --> 00:22:00,280 Speaker 1: it would. Yeah, I don't think it did either. But 357 00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:02,640 Speaker 1: I also think that there's a problem now for this 358 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:06,280 Speaker 1: president that is the political side of can he get 359 00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:11,880 Speaker 1: this dismiss senator before December or are his hands literally 360 00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:16,200 Speaker 1: tied and his legal team's hands tied until December, which 361 00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:18,720 Speaker 1: you know means then this is gonna this is going 362 00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:23,920 Speaker 1: to be an issue well into this election cycle. Look, 363 00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:26,359 Speaker 1: this is going to be an issue into this election cycle. 364 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:29,680 Speaker 1: There was no getting around that the Democrats hate Trump, 365 00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:31,720 Speaker 1: and so they were going to argue about indicting him, 366 00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:34,879 Speaker 1: potentially indicting him, wanting to indict him right up until 367 00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:38,840 Speaker 1: election day, that that was going to happen. Regardless, I 368 00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:41,119 Speaker 1: would like to see this resolved quickly. I don't know 369 00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:45,359 Speaker 1: if the New York state courts will operate quickly. I 370 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:49,280 Speaker 1: do think there's another whole set of issues. The judge 371 00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:53,399 Speaker 1: admonished Trump about his rhetoric. I gotta say so, there's 372 00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:55,760 Speaker 1: not a gag order in place, but if the judge 373 00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:59,000 Speaker 1: tried to put a gag order in place. I think 374 00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:03,919 Speaker 1: that would raise very significant First Amendment issues. Trump is 375 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:07,280 Speaker 1: not an ordinary defendant. He is a leading candidate for 376 00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:10,040 Speaker 1: president of the United States. And the idea that a 377 00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:13,440 Speaker 1: New York State judge would try to impose legal penalties 378 00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:16,399 Speaker 1: on one of the leading candidates for president of the 379 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:19,280 Speaker 1: United States, who happens to be a former president from 380 00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:23,119 Speaker 1: speaking his mind about just about any issue of public 381 00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:28,360 Speaker 1: concern is really an astonishing and an unprecedented notion. And 382 00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:31,280 Speaker 1: so I don't think the judge will try to enter 383 00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:34,439 Speaker 1: a gag order, because it really is To say that's 384 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:38,040 Speaker 1: playing with dynamite would be an understatement. But I was 385 00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:43,000 Speaker 1: more than a little concerned by the judge admonishing rhetoric 386 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:47,600 Speaker 1: because it's none of his damn business. This is not 387 00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:54,520 Speaker 1: a mob boss who is threatening retaliation against a prosecutor. 388 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:59,480 Speaker 1: This is, in fact, a partisan prosecutor who ran promising 389 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:04,560 Speaker 1: retaliation against a political opponent whom he hates. And so 390 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:08,040 Speaker 1: I think that there's a whole world of potential problems 391 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:10,879 Speaker 1: that could rise, but they haven't risen yet, and I 392 00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:14,080 Speaker 1: actually don't think they will. I don't know this judge, 393 00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:17,600 Speaker 1: but I would be surprised if the judge, were that foolish, 394 00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:21,920 Speaker 1: because any effort to silence a leading contender for president, 395 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:24,280 Speaker 1: I think would be doomed a failure. I want to 396 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:26,679 Speaker 1: ask you about another shock, and that was the media 397 00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:30,359 Speaker 1: spreading what I would refer to as fake news about 398 00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:32,520 Speaker 1: some of these charges. 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I'm going to play this montage for you 426 00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:04,240 Speaker 1: and I want to get your reaction. Trump pleaded not 427 00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:08,200 Speaker 1: guilty in the Manhattan courtroom again to thirty four counts 428 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:12,360 Speaker 1: of falsifying business records and conspiracy. Conspiracy is a very 429 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:16,840 Speaker 1: effective tool used by prosecutors to charge someone, charge groups 430 00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:19,720 Speaker 1: of people, and hold them accountable for all acts in 431 00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:23,800 Speaker 1: furtherance of the conspiracy. But the big question now rises, 432 00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:29,000 Speaker 1: who is the conspiracy? Thirty four counts of falsifying records 433 00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:35,359 Speaker 1: and conspiracy is thirty four counts of falsifying business records 434 00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:39,439 Speaker 1: and conspiracy. More information. We need to see what was 435 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:42,280 Speaker 1: the purpose of the conspiracy, who was in the conspiracy, 436 00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:44,720 Speaker 1: what were the so called overt acts? You actually have 437 00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:49,359 Speaker 1: to take a step in for servants for the resiance 438 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:53,200 Speaker 1: of that conspiracy. You don't actually have to complete the conspiracy. 439 00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:55,320 Speaker 1: You don't actually have to go through with it. You 440 00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:57,919 Speaker 1: can just intend to go through living now, now, center, 441 00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:00,440 Speaker 1: I've got a whole another minute of this type of talk. 442 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:03,720 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna I think everybody gets the point here. 443 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:07,720 Speaker 1: They were obsessed with this word conspiracy. Was the president 444 00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:13,879 Speaker 1: charge with conspiracy today? No? Ok, Look, listening to that montage, 445 00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:16,760 Speaker 1: you want to know the definition of fake news. You 446 00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:20,080 Speaker 1: just saw it. You can read the indictment. They're thirty 447 00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:23,040 Speaker 1: four counts. They're thirty four counts of all the same thing, 448 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:29,240 Speaker 1: which is a fraudulent business record in furtherance of another crime. 449 00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:32,440 Speaker 1: There is no conspiracy count. You know, one of those 450 00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:36,080 Speaker 1: commentators said a conspiracy count can be a very powerful tool. 451 00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:40,320 Speaker 1: That's actually accurate, But that's not what Alvin Bragg brought. 452 00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:44,720 Speaker 1: There was no conspiracy charge, and every one of those commentators, 453 00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:47,160 Speaker 1: assuming every one of them is talking after the indictment 454 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:53,159 Speaker 1: came out. Those news organizations should all issue retractions or 455 00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:57,720 Speaker 1: corrections because there is no conspiracy charge and any news 456 00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:02,639 Speaker 1: organization saying to the contrary is lying to the American people. 457 00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:06,919 Speaker 1: Let's talk about another aspect of this, and that is 458 00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:12,760 Speaker 1: how do you move forward if you're running for president 459 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:16,520 Speaker 1: with this hanging over your head? And also, I think 460 00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:19,680 Speaker 1: it's pretty clear now that other indictments could happen. We 461 00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:23,000 Speaker 1: may have mug shots of the president and the next 462 00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:27,280 Speaker 1: couple of months, depending on these other cases. This is 463 00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:31,360 Speaker 1: a distraction. It's going to be a big distraction. It's 464 00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:35,800 Speaker 1: going to take time, energy, money, focus away. And they're 465 00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:37,919 Speaker 1: trying to place it out in the voters heads that 466 00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:39,880 Speaker 1: you can't vote for Donald Trump because if you do 467 00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:42,000 Speaker 1: vote for a guy like Donald Trump, he might go 468 00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:44,920 Speaker 1: to jail and therefore you're wasting your vote. That's obviously 469 00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:47,240 Speaker 1: what the media is trying to do here and what 470 00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:50,520 Speaker 1: the Democrats are hoping is going to happen. So how 471 00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:53,280 Speaker 1: do the American people look at this moving forward? And 472 00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:59,960 Speaker 1: if it grows? Senator, is that a reason to bail on? Say? 473 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:02,560 Speaker 1: All right, they've done their damage, Fine, we'll figure out 474 00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:11,600 Speaker 1: something else. Look, this is blatant election interference by rabid Democrats, 475 00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:15,280 Speaker 1: whether it is alvit Bragg, whether it is the Biden 476 00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:17,800 Speaker 1: White House and the Biden Department of Justice. And we've 477 00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:20,840 Speaker 1: talked at great length about how I believe Merrick Garland 478 00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:24,960 Speaker 1: desperately wants to indict Donald Trump, or whether it is 479 00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:30,440 Speaker 1: a left wing Georgia prosecutor with a grand jury who 480 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:37,000 Speaker 1: is a self described which all of these I believe 481 00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:42,720 Speaker 1: are partisan efforts to use the criminal justice system to 482 00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:46,320 Speaker 1: subvert the will of the voters. If you're a Democrat 483 00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:50,360 Speaker 1: and you don't want Donald Trump to win, there's an 484 00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:53,400 Speaker 1: obvious avenue to pursue, which is try to beat him 485 00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:57,080 Speaker 1: in an election. If you're a Republican, and there's certainly 486 00:29:57,120 --> 00:30:00,440 Speaker 1: some Republicans who don't want Donald Trump to win, the 487 00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:03,720 Speaker 1: obvious answer is to beat him in a primary election. 488 00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:07,520 Speaker 1: That's actually how our political process works. We're going to 489 00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:12,040 Speaker 1: have primaries to select the Republican nominee in the Democrat nominee, 490 00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:15,760 Speaker 1: and we should be debating who the best nominee is, 491 00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:17,720 Speaker 1: who has the best record, who is the most likely 492 00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:22,000 Speaker 1: to win, who would make the best president. That's the 493 00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:25,680 Speaker 1: essence of politics. What is happening as these left wing 494 00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:28,840 Speaker 1: Democrats they don't trust the voters. They don't want to 495 00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:32,240 Speaker 1: have the voters make that determination. They don't actually want 496 00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:35,600 Speaker 1: to have to make their case to the voters. Instead, 497 00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:38,920 Speaker 1: they're trying to end run the will of the voters 498 00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:47,640 Speaker 1: by pursuing bogus and abusive prosecutions. I think that is 499 00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:53,800 Speaker 1: an endeavor doomed to fail, And ironically, the more they 500 00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:57,640 Speaker 1: do it, the more they end up politically benefiting and 501 00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:01,200 Speaker 1: boosting Donald Trump. And I'd like to see all these 502 00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:08,640 Speaker 1: ridiculous prosecutions stop and let the voters decide. Let's have 503 00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:12,360 Speaker 1: a real and meaningful debate about the right direction for 504 00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:18,960 Speaker 1: the country, not a partisan witch hunt driven by Democrats 505 00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:22,920 Speaker 1: who ultimately are angry with the voters in twenty sixteen 506 00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:26,240 Speaker 1: for having dared to elect Donald Trump in the first place. 507 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:29,640 Speaker 1: I want to ask you one other question politically about this. 508 00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:31,920 Speaker 1: And there was a lot of conservatives I saw today 509 00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:34,480 Speaker 1: that we're saying, Okay, if this is how the game's 510 00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:37,880 Speaker 1: going to be played, then there needs to be conservative 511 00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:41,800 Speaker 1: das around the country that go ahead and jump in 512 00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:46,000 Speaker 1: and start charging Democrats with crimes. Hunter Biden James Biden, 513 00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:48,960 Speaker 1: Joe Biden, Hillary Clinton. The list goes on on to 514 00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:50,600 Speaker 1: show them, if they're going to do it, we'll do 515 00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:54,200 Speaker 1: it too. What is your reaction to that strategy where 516 00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:56,080 Speaker 1: they're saying, all right, they want to go to the mattresses. 517 00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:58,760 Speaker 1: We can't just keep sitting back. You're acting like we're statesman. 518 00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:00,680 Speaker 1: If they want to play by these rules, let's play 519 00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:04,520 Speaker 1: by these rules. Look at some level, it may be inevitable. 520 00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:10,200 Speaker 1: We talked about when Verdict launched. The first night this 521 00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:15,480 Speaker 1: podcast came into existence was the first night of the 522 00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:19,160 Speaker 1: very first impeachment of Donald Trump. One of the things 523 00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:23,800 Speaker 1: that we said in the opening days of Verdict is 524 00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:28,520 Speaker 1: the Democrats are crossing a rubicon and they are creating 525 00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:31,680 Speaker 1: a new environment where whenever you have a House representatives 526 00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:35,960 Speaker 1: from one party and a president from the opposing party, 527 00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:39,640 Speaker 1: the odds of impeachment being used as a means of 528 00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:45,800 Speaker 1: political warfare have risen dramatically. Now, I wish the Democrats 529 00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:49,400 Speaker 1: had not crossed that line, and I think our country 530 00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:53,200 Speaker 1: is worse off when you have the impeachment of the 531 00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:56,800 Speaker 1: president as a routine matter of political battle. But I 532 00:32:56,840 --> 00:33:01,000 Speaker 1: think the Democrats have pushed us in that direction. I 533 00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:03,200 Speaker 1: think what Alvin Bragg has done, and I think what 534 00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:08,480 Speaker 1: Merrick Garland wants to do would push us dramatically more 535 00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:12,280 Speaker 1: in that direction, where it's not just impeachment, which the 536 00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:17,160 Speaker 1: American people do understand, it's politicians attacking politicians. There is 537 00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:22,880 Speaker 1: inevitably some element of politics to it. An indictment and 538 00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:28,440 Speaker 1: a prosecution is meant to be separate and apart from politics. 539 00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:34,239 Speaker 1: So listen, part of me, my heart hurts when I 540 00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:38,200 Speaker 1: hear people saying, all right, Republicans, go indict the Democrats. Now, 541 00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:43,480 Speaker 1: I don't want to see our legal system used as 542 00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:47,320 Speaker 1: a weapon and tool of political retribution. Now, to be clear, 543 00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:55,000 Speaker 1: I've said repeatedly the Department of Justice should investigate the 544 00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:59,840 Speaker 1: Biden family and Joe Biden in particular for corruption. Official 545 00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:04,320 Speaker 1: public corruption is a responsibility of the Department of Justice, 546 00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:08,000 Speaker 1: and I think there is significant evidence that Joe Biden 547 00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:11,560 Speaker 1: personally has profited and that his family has profited from 548 00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:16,720 Speaker 1: communist China and also from Barisma, the Ukrainian natural gas company. 549 00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:24,680 Speaker 1: Those investigations are perfectly appropriate. Ideally they should happen in 550 00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:28,359 Speaker 1: the Department of Justice, even though it is headed by 551 00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:32,520 Speaker 1: a Democrat attorney general. But I do think we've got 552 00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:37,840 Speaker 1: a good possibility of seeing some Republican DA somewhere who decides, 553 00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:41,040 Speaker 1: all right, I want to be famous like Alvin Bragg. 554 00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:42,560 Speaker 1: I'm going to go do this too. And I got 555 00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:46,560 Speaker 1: to say that is much worse for the rule of law. 556 00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:52,280 Speaker 1: It's worse for the constitution, It's worse for our democratically 557 00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:56,240 Speaker 1: elected government if we go down that road. But Alvin 558 00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:59,839 Speaker 1: Bragg and Merrick Garland have pushed us a long long 559 00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:04,520 Speaker 1: way down that road. And I understand the rage and 560 00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:07,760 Speaker 1: fury that is leading people to call for that last 561 00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:09,440 Speaker 1: question for you. Don't want to ask you about these 562 00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:11,399 Speaker 1: future indictments. Before we get that, I want to remind 563 00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:14,279 Speaker 1: you about our friends at Patriot Mobile. Patriot Mobile is 564 00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:17,560 Speaker 1: the only conservative Christian cell phone coming in the US, 565 00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:20,759 Speaker 1: and they are a company where every single time that 566 00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:24,600 Speaker 1: you pay your bill, you actually are supporting the causes 567 00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:28,080 Speaker 1: and organizations that fight for our values. 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So stand with other 583 00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:15,920 Speaker 1: conservatives and make a difference with every phone call. Call 584 00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:18,640 Speaker 1: Patriot Mobile to day, or go online to Patriot Mobile 585 00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:24,000 Speaker 1: dot com slash ben, Patriot Mobile dot com slash ben, 586 00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:27,640 Speaker 1: or you can go to eight seven eight Patriot. That's 587 00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:31,560 Speaker 1: eight seven eight Patriot or Patriotmobile dot com slash ben. 588 00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:35,279 Speaker 1: Last question for you, Center, and that is with this 589 00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:40,279 Speaker 1: indictment today, is do you believe it's going to be 590 00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:43,919 Speaker 1: pretty easy now to get these other indictments against Donald Trump? 591 00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:46,440 Speaker 1: Because those grand juries are gonna say this prosecutor and say, hey, 592 00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:48,360 Speaker 1: they've already done it in New York. You're not going 593 00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:52,879 Speaker 1: to be the first go ahead and take the leap. Maybe. Look, 594 00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:56,520 Speaker 1: I think it makes it a little bit easier, but 595 00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:59,799 Speaker 1: but I don't think it makes it much easier. The 596 00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:03,600 Speaker 1: Atlanta investigation, I don't really know. I don't know that 597 00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:08,600 Speaker 1: that prosecutor as we discuss the grand jury for a woman, 598 00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:12,960 Speaker 1: the fact that she went on a media tour broadcasting 599 00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:17,120 Speaker 1: her partisan dislike for Trump, that's a real problem for 600 00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:21,439 Speaker 1: the prosecutors. I promise you the Atlanta prosecutors were horrified 601 00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:26,880 Speaker 1: when she did that. It will raise if there is 602 00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:30,680 Speaker 1: an indictment, it will raise an obvious ground for challenging 603 00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:36,960 Speaker 1: that indictment. The greatest peril legally has always been the 604 00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:39,640 Speaker 1: Department of Justice. And listen, the Department of Justice has 605 00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:42,600 Speaker 1: a unique role. It is the exclusive enforcer of federal law. 606 00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:46,640 Speaker 1: We've discussed at great length. I believe Merrick Garland has 607 00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:50,840 Speaker 1: made the political decision he wants to indict Donald Trump. 608 00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:55,280 Speaker 1: It's why, and we've talked about this before. DJ leaked 609 00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:58,480 Speaker 1: that they intended to indict Hunter Biden for purely personal 610 00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:02,480 Speaker 1: crimes that had nothing to do with Joe Biden because 611 00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:04,719 Speaker 1: a they wanted to insulate Joe Biden in the White 612 00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:10,360 Speaker 1: House from liability and complicity in corruption with foreign governments, 613 00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:18,080 Speaker 1: but b because it gave a easy appearance of balance 614 00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:20,440 Speaker 1: for Garland to say, look, I indicted a Biden, I 615 00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:23,920 Speaker 1: indited a Trump. Look how even handed I am. I 616 00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:29,759 Speaker 1: think that plan hit a major, major impediment when it 617 00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:34,120 Speaker 1: was suddenly discovered that Joe Biden had classified documents seemingly everywhere. 618 00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:42,040 Speaker 1: I think prior to the Biden documents being discovered, the 619 00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:46,200 Speaker 1: odds were extremely high that Merritt Garland was going to 620 00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:52,279 Speaker 1: indict Trump for the possession of classified documents. Now it 621 00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:55,920 Speaker 1: is really tough. It is really tough to bring that 622 00:38:56,000 --> 00:39:00,400 Speaker 1: case against Trump and not bring it against Biden. Everyone, 623 00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:05,919 Speaker 1: even MSNBC, the partisan shills there, would be forced to ask, 624 00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:08,359 Speaker 1: wait a second, why is this only a crime when 625 00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:17,360 Speaker 1: Republicans do it? And so I think yesterday's indictment, well, 626 00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:22,799 Speaker 1: last week's indictment, and yesterday's not guilty plea marginally increases 627 00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:25,920 Speaker 1: the chances of future indictments. But at the end of 628 00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:29,520 Speaker 1: the day, I think there are real impediments to the 629 00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:33,520 Speaker 1: other cases, and those impediments may be sufficient to prevent 630 00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:36,840 Speaker 1: the indictments from coming. We're going to keep covering this 631 00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:39,359 Speaker 1: here and we'll let you We'll keep you update on 632 00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:41,759 Speaker 1: all of this as it continues to move forward and 633 00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:45,279 Speaker 1: these possible other indictments. As you said, Center, this is 634 00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:47,480 Speaker 1: Saturday for this country, and it's going to be very 635 00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:50,000 Speaker 1: hard to get the genie back in the bottle after 636 00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:52,560 Speaker 1: what the Democrats have done to the President of the 637 00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:55,680 Speaker 1: United States America Foreign President Donald Trump. And I think, 638 00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:58,600 Speaker 1: like you said, his approval rating and his numbers are 639 00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:01,640 Speaker 1: going to skyrocket in this primary. He's going to be 640 00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:04,920 Speaker 1: the overwhelming front runner on steroids after this, and that 641 00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:07,320 Speaker 1: may be the biggest backfire ball for what the Democrats 642 00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:08,759 Speaker 1: thought they were going to get out of this one. 643 00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:11,480 Speaker 1: Don't forget. We do this podcast three days a week. 644 00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:14,560 Speaker 1: One day we do audio and video, the other two 645 00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:16,719 Speaker 1: are audio only. So make sure it subscribed and the 646 00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:20,239 Speaker 1: hit that auto subscriber auto download button right. It's a 647 00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:22,600 Speaker 1: five star review, so we can help reach more people, 648 00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:25,000 Speaker 1: and please share it with your family and your friends. 649 00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:26,960 Speaker 1: Senator Cruz and I will see you back here in 650 00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:27,720 Speaker 1: a couple of days.