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Speaker 1: There was a safety deposit box in Malaysia that her

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Speaker 1: and I had the key to that was a secret

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Speaker 1: and I wasn't allowed to tell anyone that it existed.

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Speaker 1: And we'd like go put gold bars in this safety

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Speaker 1: deposit box that has the big vaulted door.

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Speaker 2: It was like the slow burn to like, that wasn't

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Speaker 2: weird to me.

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Speaker 3: I'm Andrea Gunning and this is Betrayal. I show about

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Speaker 3: the people we trust the most and the deceptions that

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Speaker 3: change everything. Usually, each episode of Betrayal Weekly follows one

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Speaker 3: person's story, but today's episode is told by two members

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Speaker 3: of the same family, a father and daughter.

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Speaker 4: The betrayal wasn't something that happened in a moment. It

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Speaker 4: happened over a long time, and I didn't even recognize

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Speaker 4: what was happening.

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Speaker 3: That's Dan Kimball. He is a mild mannered Midwestern man

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Speaker 3: in his late sixties. He and his daughter Sage, had

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Speaker 3: their world shattered by the person they both trusted most.

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Speaker 3: Here's Sage.

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Speaker 2: In my normal life.

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Speaker 1: I don't talk about this to my friends or my people,

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Speaker 1: except for some very close friends, because like, how do

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Speaker 1: you even start to tell this story?

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Speaker 3: When we first reached out to them about telling their

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Speaker 3: story on Betrayal.

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Speaker 4: To be honest. When I got that message from you,

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Speaker 4: I thought it was a.

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Speaker 3: Scam, But the title of our show caught his attention.

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Speaker 4: Betrayal. The word betrayal was the thing that kind of

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Speaker 4: struck my mind.

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Speaker 3: Our team spent months talking with Dan in Sage. They

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Speaker 3: went back and forth about if they wanted to use

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Speaker 3: their real names in this episode. After taking time to think,

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Speaker 3: they came back with a clear answer, If.

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Speaker 2: We're telling the truth, what do we have to be

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Speaker 2: afraid of?

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Speaker 3: We're going to start this story From Sage's perspective, she

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Speaker 3: grew up in picturesque Santa Barbara, California, in the nineties.

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Speaker 1: At the time, it felt more like a hippie town.

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Speaker 1: You could do outdoorsy stuff. I have very fond memories

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Speaker 1: there of like finding bananas, lugs, and being outside.

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Speaker 3: Her parents are both eccentric citizen of the world types.

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Speaker 3: They originally met because of their mutual love of the

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Speaker 3: visionary architect and designer Buckminster Fuller.

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Speaker 1: They met at Buckminster Fuller's birthday party and then they

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Speaker 1: were friends years before they ever were in a relationship.

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Speaker 3: Her dad, Dan, spent most of his life doing sustainable design,

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Speaker 3: working on cutting edge computer technology. He's the one who

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Speaker 3: nurtured her childhood curiosity.

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Speaker 1: My dad would be curious about what I was interested in,

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Speaker 1: and then he'd get excited about it. I was really

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Speaker 1: obsessed with like space for a little bit, and he

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Speaker 1: built a planetarium with me, and like, let me go

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Speaker 1: on the street and like sell tickets for people to

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Speaker 1: like look.

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Speaker 2: Into my planetarium show.

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Speaker 3: Dan was a constant and gentle presence for Sage and

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Speaker 3: her mom Fara.

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Speaker 2: She was affectionate. She would hug me, she would kiss me,

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Speaker 2: she would play with me, like outdoorsy things. She loved

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Speaker 2: doing with me.

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Speaker 3: As a kid, Sage always wanted to be close to

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Speaker 3: her mom.

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Speaker 2: I felt like she was the thing that made me safe.

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Speaker 1: I couldn't exist without her, like I believed that I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't exist without her.

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Speaker 3: Fara was a Sufi Muslim. She came to the religion

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Speaker 3: as a teenager when her dad was working as a

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Speaker 3: diplomat in Iran. That's where Fara fell in love with Islam.

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Speaker 3: It became a part of her identity and she raised

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Speaker 3: her daughter's age in the faith.

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Speaker 1: We all called ourselves Sufi's, which is a sect of

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Speaker 1: Islam have these like Sufi gatherings at our house with

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Speaker 1: like dancing. There would be like forty people coming over

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Speaker 1: and like I'd just get to like hang out. Those

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Speaker 1: Sufi parties were a lot of fun for Sage.

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Speaker 3: Growing up as a white Muslim girl in Santa Barbara

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Speaker 3: was a unique experience.

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Speaker 1: Friends would ask me, like, are you embarrassed to walk

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Speaker 1: around with your mom because she wore this. It's a

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Speaker 1: hit job, but it's also like a cape thing.

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Speaker 2: People would ask me if my mom was a nun.

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Speaker 3: Her mom started wearing long white robes that looked like

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Speaker 3: a nun's habit. Dan sewed them for her by hand.

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Speaker 3: Sage was it embarrassed about her mom. She wanted to

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Speaker 3: be like her because her mom really lived out her values.

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Speaker 3: She was a peace activist.

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Speaker 1: We'd go to a lot of anti war or peace

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Speaker 1: rallies when I was growing up.

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Speaker 2: I remember feeling.

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Speaker 1: Really cool that we were out there doing something about

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Speaker 1: the world.

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Speaker 3: Fara organized a movement to send medicine and supplies to

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Speaker 3: civilians in Iraq. Sage remembers watching her mom's work with pride.

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Speaker 2: That was about five or so.

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Speaker 1: My mom was going on a humanitarian aid trip where

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Speaker 1: a group of people were going to be breaking the

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Speaker 1: sanctions to deliver medicine and things to the people in Iraq.

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Speaker 1: That was a super cool thing that my mom did. Like,

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Speaker 1: that's so brave and so cool.

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Speaker 3: Dan was deeply involved in this movement too. It was

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Speaker 3: a family effort. The Kimbals were instrumental in raising millions

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Speaker 3: of dollars from medicine to be sent to children in Iraq.

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Speaker 3: As much as Sage loved her mom and wanted to

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Speaker 3: be just like her, Fara could be stern.

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Speaker 1: I remember from a very young age knowing that what

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Speaker 1: mom says goes like if you did something wrong, you

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Speaker 1: knew immediately to like get it together, and it almost

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Speaker 1: like your eyes changed.

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Speaker 3: Whenever Sage did something wrong, Fara taught her how to

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Speaker 3: make amends.

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Speaker 1: My tactic from an early age was writing her a

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Speaker 1: note or a letter.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to see if I can find it. Actually, oh,

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Speaker 2: here it is. I found it. There's a part here

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Speaker 2: that says thank you for teaching me what Islam is.

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Speaker 2: I don't know where I would be today if not

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Speaker 2: for you, even though it may not seem like it now,

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Speaker 2: because I didn't live up to my duties or help

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Speaker 2: you out. I truly love you. You are the most

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Speaker 2: important person in the world to me.

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Speaker 3: Fara was often upset with Sage's dad Dan. Sage didn't

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Speaker 3: know why, but she wanted to help.

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Speaker 1: Once I was like eight nine ten, I learned that

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Speaker 1: I should try and fix it. So I would go

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Speaker 1: and talk to him, and then I would go and

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Speaker 1: relay information, and I would go tell him, here's what

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Speaker 1: you should do.

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Speaker 2: I know how to fix these problems.

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Speaker 3: Sage was confused by her parents' relationship.

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Speaker 1: I never saw them be affectionate with each other. I

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Speaker 1: don't think I ever saw them kiss or like hug.

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Speaker 1: They said they really loved each other. But i'd see

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Speaker 1: like my friend's parents, and they'd be like arm around

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Speaker 1: each other or like holding hands.

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Speaker 3: Bara put pressure on Dan to bring in more money

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Speaker 3: for the family. That became a source of a lot

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Speaker 3: of their fights.

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Speaker 1: At a certain point, my mom started saying that, well,

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Speaker 1: it's the man's job to provide, like I shouldn't have

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Speaker 1: to provide anything, because it was his job to make

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Speaker 1: sure that there was food on the table.

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Speaker 3: Their family was growing. When Sage was eight years old,

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Speaker 3: her parents had two more kids, twin boys.

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Speaker 1: I was pumped because I was like, great, even better

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Speaker 1: now I get two friends, not just one.

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Speaker 3: Money was a stressor. Dan had one unsuccessful tech startup

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Speaker 3: of his own, but he always landed on his feet.

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Speaker 3: At the time, he worked for an early micro computing

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Speaker 3: company doing user interface design. Plus, they were in the

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Speaker 3: middle of building their dream home in Santa Barbara. Bara

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Speaker 3: and Dan had been designing it together. It would be

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Speaker 3: a sustainable home that incorporated Islamic architecture.

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Speaker 1: There was a house that we were trying to build

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Speaker 1: in Santa Barbara that got cut because it had a dome,

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Speaker 1: and people said that the dome was We're trying to

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Speaker 1: build a mosque.

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Speaker 3: It was two thousand and five, a time when Islamophobia

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Speaker 3: was rampant in the US. Siege encountered it at school.

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Speaker 1: I do remember that being like a Muslims or terrorists

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Speaker 1: like that being said, and me fighting with people about that.

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Speaker 3: Fara and Dan learned that it was one of their

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Speaker 3: neighbors who made Islamophobic comments about the design of their house.

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Speaker 3: It made them want to live in a place where

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Speaker 3: they weren't outsiders.

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Speaker 1: I was in ninth grade at the time, and I

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Speaker 1: remember coming home and they were like boxes packed.

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Speaker 3: Fara wanted to move the family to a Muslim majority country.

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Speaker 3: Dan quit his job and planned to work remotely on

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Speaker 3: tech startups in Asia. A few months later, they went

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Speaker 3: to visit a family friend in Bali, Indonesia.

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Speaker 2: And then we didn't leave.

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Speaker 3: Bali's actually majority Hindu, but Fara felt comfortable there and

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Speaker 3: they found the perfect property.

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Speaker 1: It was a big piece of land and there's a

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Speaker 1: river down below, and you look across like rice fields,

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Speaker 1: and you could see on a clear day like Mount Agun,

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Speaker 1: which is the big volcano in Bali, in the distance.

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Speaker 1: Like it was incredible, beautiful, beautiful, but at the time

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Speaker 1: it was just a piece of land. There was nothing

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Speaker 1: on it.

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Speaker 3: The family packed up their whole lives, put most of

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Speaker 3: it in storage, and relocated to Bali. They got to

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Speaker 3: work building an estate complete with an organic garden and

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Speaker 3: a set of traditional Javanese villas.

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Speaker 1: They're called Joe glows, and they're these really cool Indonesian

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Speaker 1: structures that are like no nails.

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Speaker 3: The family came together with neighbors and friends to help

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Speaker 3: with the construction. They also started a main house where

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Speaker 3: the family would live. It was a huge undertaking, and

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Speaker 3: though she was fourteen sage knew her parents were taking

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Speaker 3: a big risk.

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Speaker 1: Buying that property was like everything we had, so like

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Speaker 1: you're putting all your eggs in that basket.

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Speaker 3: To afford this piece of land and the construction costs,

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Speaker 3: Dan and Fara had used all of their resources. They

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Speaker 3: sold their property in Santa Barbara and put their savings,

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Speaker 3: including all the money Dan had inherited from his parents,

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Speaker 3: into the Bali property. Once it was completed, it would

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Speaker 3: be an oasis, a tropical paradise for their family, one

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Speaker 3: they could monetize. Fara had the idea to start a

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Speaker 3: raw foods business at the house in Bali, hosts tourists

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Speaker 3: and chefs who were leaders in the raw food movement.

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Speaker 3: It's a diet of mostly fruits, nuts, and vegetables.

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Speaker 1: Health and wellness was another big thing that she was into.

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Speaker 1: She got really into like raw food and actually made

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Speaker 1: the cookbook with like delicious raw food recipes. But like

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Speaker 1: there were always extremes in that.

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Speaker 3: That year, Fara took stage on a solo trip to

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Speaker 3: visit a community run by women.

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Speaker 2: There's an Indonesian tribe that's still a matriarchal society, which

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Speaker 2: it was actually really sick, like it was a very cool, beautiful,

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Speaker 2: peaceful society.

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Speaker 3: Stage was about fifteen after that trip to visit the

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Speaker 3: matriarchal society, Fara brought her daughter along more often, including

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Speaker 3: for business matters and important errands.

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Speaker 1: I've started going to banks with her to do banking things.

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Speaker 3: Around that same time, Fara began bringing the kids on

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Speaker 3: trips with her where she was buying gold bars.

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Speaker 2: A gold bar.

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Speaker 1: I remember at the time it being like ten thousand

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Speaker 1: dollars and us going and getting like six gold bars

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Speaker 1: or something like that. This was also the time she

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Speaker 1: was getting into Alex Jones and like money and corruption.

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Speaker 3: Alex Jones is an American media host. He's built a

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Speaker 3: large following through commentary on politics, culture, and government institutions.

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Speaker 3: He's best known for promoting conspiracy theories and fear mongering

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Speaker 3: about economic collapse.

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Speaker 1: I think that was where the influence to get the

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Speaker 1: gold came from, because it was like, this is where

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Speaker 1: how you keep your money safe.

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Speaker 3: Some of those trips are seered into stages memory, like

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Speaker 3: when they went to Singapore.

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Speaker 1: We would go to Singapore to buy gold because it

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Speaker 1: was a good place to buy gold. And then she

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Speaker 1: would have me and my brothers put like you have

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Speaker 1: those like you know, those like travel bags that go

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Speaker 1: like under your clothes.

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Speaker 2: She made it seem like it was a normal thing.

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Speaker 3: She started talking to Stage more and more about finances,

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Speaker 3: and Fara told her these trips, the gold, the banking,

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Speaker 3: it was their secret.

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Speaker 2: There was a.

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Speaker 1: Safety deposit box in Malaysia that her and I had

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Speaker 1: the key to. That was a secret and I wasn't

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Speaker 1: allowed to tell anyone that it existed. And like there's

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Speaker 1: like armed guards outside of this like safety deposit area,

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Speaker 1: and we'd like go put gold bars in this safety

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Speaker 1: deposit box that has the big vaulted door and like

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Speaker 1: a guard at the door.

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Speaker 2: It was wild, but.

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Speaker 1: Like again it was like the slow burn too, Like

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Speaker 1: that wasn't weird to me.

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Speaker 3: Sage knew she wasn't allowed to question her mom.

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Speaker 1: I was so intertwined with what she wanted. I don't

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Speaker 1: think I was even always told what I was doing.

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Speaker 1: I just did whatever she asked me to do.

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Speaker 3: Stage trusted in her mom connection to God.

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Speaker 1: That was so central to how she parented me was

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Speaker 1: here's God, and then we're all serving God. The understanding

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Speaker 1: was that she's like a step below God. God is

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Speaker 1: speaking to her it was like, if you're going against her,

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Speaker 1: you're going against God.

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Speaker 3: Eventually, Bara let her daughter in on her plan. She

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Speaker 3: wanted to create a matriarchal financial structure within their own family.

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Speaker 1: She's a feminist and she wants a matriarchal society and

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Speaker 1: the women should be in charge of the finances. That

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Speaker 1: was the first time I heard that, like, we are

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Speaker 1: going to do this matriarchal.

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Speaker 3: Thing as part of this structure. Fara wanted Stage to

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Speaker 3: be the signatory on their family trust instead of her

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Speaker 3: dad or one of her brothers.

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Speaker 1: When I became the signatory on that trust document, it

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Speaker 1: was because we were treating this like the women have

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Speaker 1: power over the finances, like it's going to be so progressive.

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Speaker 3: Sage was on board. She signed the documents her my

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Speaker 3: master too.

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Speaker 2: The understanding was like, if you're a feminist or if

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Speaker 2: you care about women, you will also support this.

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Speaker 3: Fara explained to Sage that this had to be done

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Speaker 3: because she said their dad wasn't good with money. Bara

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Speaker 3: told the kids that Dan's job in tech startups wasn't

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Speaker 3: good enough.

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Speaker 1: He'd go get investment in a company that he was

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Speaker 1: working on, and then she would say that investment isn't income.

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Speaker 1: That's stealing money from people for these businesses. And so

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Speaker 1: she would say to us that, like, your dad is

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Speaker 1: just swindling these people out of their money because he

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Speaker 1: won't get a job. And if he cared about you,

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Speaker 1: he would get a job.

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Speaker 3: But it wasn't just Dan's job that was the problem.

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Speaker 3: She started telling the kids their dad didn't love them anymore.

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Speaker 1: She would say to us that, like, your dad doesn't care.

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Speaker 1: He doesn't care about you. He's a dead bee. He

295
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Speaker 1: doesn't care about his kids. I know you love him,

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Speaker 1: but if he cared about you, he would be doing

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Speaker 1: something to protect you.

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Speaker 3: Dan was often traveling for work away from the house,

299
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Speaker 3: but whenever he was home.

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Speaker 1: I remember later on in my teenage years, my dad

301
00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:32,440
Speaker 1: was sleeping in literally this like outdoor shack. But it

302
00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:35,360
Speaker 1: was because I begged her not to kick him out.

303
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Speaker 3: Fully, Fara explained to the kids that she was scared

304
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Speaker 3: of Dan.

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Speaker 1: She would ask me to be a witness if he

306
00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:47,480
Speaker 1: was talking to her because she wanted a witness when

307
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Speaker 1: he was abusive to her, like if I cared about her,

308
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Speaker 1: I'd be there to protect her. In that.

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Speaker 3: By the time Stage left for college, she believed she

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Speaker 3: had to protect the family from her dad, and a

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Speaker 3: big part of that meant keeping the family money out

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Speaker 3: of his hands.

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Speaker 1: The understanding was like, in order for us to have anything,

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Speaker 1: we have to make sure he doesn't have access to

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Speaker 1: these things because he's just going to squander it. And

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Speaker 1: my dad didn't know any of this, All.

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Speaker 3: Of this, from the trips to the bank to the

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Speaker 3: stories she told the kids, I.

319
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Speaker 4: Was completely oblivious, and I think it was orchestrated that way.

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Speaker 3: Once the Kimbals moved to Bali, Fara began acting differently.

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Speaker 3: She isolated her oldest daughter, Sage, and told her stories

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Speaker 3: about how her father didn't love her. It got in

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Speaker 3: Sage's head. Her mom started taking her to the bank

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Speaker 3: and asking her to sign documents. Now we're going to

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Speaker 3: hear Dan's perspective, starting from when they moved to Bali.

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Speaker 3: It's something that was difficult for him to revisit. Dan

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Speaker 3: Metfara when they were teenagers. They were friends for fifteen

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Speaker 3: years before they became a couple. They shared the same

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Speaker 3: core value wanting to make the world a better place, and.

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Speaker 4: I appreciated that about her. Definitely very much a global thinker,

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Speaker 4: and she's a very charismatic person, I mean, a really

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Speaker 4: beautiful soul in many ways.

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Speaker 3: By the time they got to Bali, they'd been married

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Speaker 3: for almost twenty years. Dan didn't share the same religious

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Speaker 3: zeal as Fara did, but he respected her values. So

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Speaker 3: when she said she wanted to move to Indonesia.

337
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Speaker 4: The decision had already been made for me. Really, she

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Speaker 4: wanted to be in a Muslim culture, and you know,

339
00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:02,359
Speaker 4: I'm want to really complain. I was always wanting to

340
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Speaker 4: just go along with what we were trying to do.

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Speaker 3: Dan had been the breadwinner for most of their marriage.

342
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Speaker 3: Working in tech startups meant that sometimes he had a

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Speaker 3: high paying job and sometimes he was in between gigs,

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Speaker 3: but through it all he made sure the family was

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Speaker 3: okay financially. In fact, Dan had been the one managing

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Speaker 3: the couple's money since the beginning.

347
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Speaker 4: I took over responsibility for all the finances. I just

348
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Speaker 4: made the books every month and just did it and

349
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Speaker 4: paid the bills. I kind of knew the QuickBooks and

350
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Speaker 4: putting it all together and working with the text people

351
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Speaker 4: and just getting it all organized. I don't think that

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Speaker 4: she had ever really had a desire to handle money stuff.

353
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Speaker 3: Over the course of their marriage, Dan watched his wife

354
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Speaker 3: become more and more religious. She'd chosen her own name, Bara,

355
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Speaker 3: Religion became her whole life. By the time they got

356
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Speaker 3: to Bali.

357
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Speaker 4: There was kind of a delusional nature to her describing herself.

358
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Speaker 4: She was so close to God that she could understand

359
00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:12,400
Speaker 4: things that were beyond my understanding.

360
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Speaker 3: But Dan saw the value in living abroad. Once he

361
00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:22,280
Speaker 3: toured the property in Bali, he was sold afar his dream.

362
00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:25,160
Speaker 3: To make that happen financially.

363
00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:27,920
Speaker 4: We moved all of our assets to Indonesia through we

364
00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:31,439
Speaker 4: started a company in Indonesia, so money would go to

365
00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:34,840
Speaker 4: this company. We have to have one Indonesian director, so

366
00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:38,800
Speaker 4: a good Indonesian friend was the director. My wife and

367
00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:41,520
Speaker 4: I were the other directors, and we owned a fifty

368
00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:44,920
Speaker 4: to fifty that Indonesian director didn't own any and most

369
00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:47,760
Speaker 4: of the assets then to buy the property were bought

370
00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:51,040
Speaker 4: through this company. We paid a huge down payment to

371
00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:52,200
Speaker 4: buy the property.

372
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Speaker 3: It was a big financial risk, and it brought Dan

373
00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:59,679
Speaker 3: and Bara closer. They both believed in what they were building.

374
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Speaker 3: Takeet other in Bali, even if it meant pulling all

375
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Speaker 3: of their available resources.

376
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Speaker 4: Oftentimes people think, oh, you must have been so wealthy

377
00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:10,199
Speaker 4: to do all that stuff. No, we weren't. We just

378
00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:12,680
Speaker 4: were brave enough to go and do it right. I mean,

379
00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:16,080
Speaker 4: it was risky in the sense that we spent a

380
00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:18,879
Speaker 4: lot of money to buy that property, and but we

381
00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:21,480
Speaker 4: just we didn't mind living with that kind of risk.

382
00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:28,159
Speaker 3: At the beginning of their move, the family had to

383
00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:31,880
Speaker 3: stay in a hotel for a couple weeks. There, Dan

384
00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:35,120
Speaker 3: noticed Fara was taken by the new lifestyle they could

385
00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:36,040
Speaker 3: afford abroad.

386
00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:40,160
Speaker 4: We lived for quite a long time in this fancy hotel,

387
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Speaker 4: and I didn't know why we were staying there because

388
00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:43,720
Speaker 4: it was costing us too much money, and I was

389
00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:46,560
Speaker 4: kind of complaining about it. But she was very pushy

390
00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:49,000
Speaker 4: around money, like, you know, no, we're gonna do this.

391
00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:50,439
Speaker 4: We're going to spend the money and it takes to

392
00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:53,320
Speaker 4: do this. Of course, it's both it's all our money.

393
00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:58,199
Speaker 3: That hotel stay was temporary. Dan was busy orchestrating and

394
00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:02,080
Speaker 3: designing the construction project. He was there for nearly every

395
00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:03,680
Speaker 3: step of the process.

396
00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:07,720
Speaker 4: And we built it up into this beautiful little mini

397
00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:11,280
Speaker 4: resort which was all based on raw food, which is

398
00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:15,000
Speaker 4: a wonderful kind of niche for us, because anyone anywhere

399
00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:16,960
Speaker 4: in the world it was interested in raw food would

400
00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:18,399
Speaker 4: come to our place. It was the only place in

401
00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:20,359
Speaker 4: Bali that you could get raw food at the time,

402
00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:23,800
Speaker 4: and so we trained people in how to make raw food.

403
00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:25,880
Speaker 4: In fact, some of the people that went to these

404
00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:28,520
Speaker 4: New York raw food restaurants were trained by us.

405
00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:32,320
Speaker 3: Fara loved living in Bali. They both did.

406
00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:34,399
Speaker 4: I just fell in love with Bali.

407
00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:38,320
Speaker 3: Once most of the construction was done, Dan started traveling

408
00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:45,840
Speaker 3: around Asia consulting for a series of tech startups. Stage

409
00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:49,280
Speaker 3: was finishing high school. The twin boys were in elementary school,

410
00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:53,520
Speaker 3: and Fara seemed to be pulling away from Dan every

411
00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:56,560
Speaker 3: time he came home from a business trip. Fara became

412
00:22:56,640 --> 00:23:00,479
Speaker 3: increasingly distant. After a year or two, I got to

413
00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:02,080
Speaker 3: the point that we.

414
00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:05,800
Speaker 4: Didn't have a relationship anymore. I mean we never slept together,

415
00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:09,560
Speaker 4: we never I was in separate quarters from her. But

416
00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:11,040
Speaker 4: I just went along with it.

417
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:14,440
Speaker 3: Dan was under pressure to keep bringing in a steady income,

418
00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:18,240
Speaker 3: and he was scrambling to make that happen. He figured

419
00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:20,240
Speaker 3: it was normal for he and his wife to go

420
00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:24,320
Speaker 3: through stressful years where they drifted apart. The only thing

421
00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:27,760
Speaker 3: that bothered him was when Fara started taking the kids

422
00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:31,760
Speaker 3: on trips and telling Dan she didn't want him there.

423
00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:35,840
Speaker 4: There was a lot of exclusion, like, okay, sage and

424
00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:37,880
Speaker 4: I are going to go to Indonesia though and buy

425
00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:40,960
Speaker 4: some more teak to try to find the teak for

426
00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:44,240
Speaker 4: the house, and you're going to stay here, right. It's

427
00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:46,240
Speaker 4: just like telling me what I had to do and

428
00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:47,920
Speaker 4: how I'm going to do it.

429
00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:52,160
Speaker 3: This had been their dynamic for almost their whole marriage.

430
00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:55,800
Speaker 3: Fara called the shots and Dan was happy to go

431
00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:59,840
Speaker 3: along with her choices. But after they moved abroad, her

432
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:01,760
Speaker 3: the choices began to exclude Dan.

433
00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:05,480
Speaker 4: There are many vacations that they went on that I

434
00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:08,760
Speaker 4: didn't go on because I was pushed out of it.

435
00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:11,400
Speaker 3: One of those trips, my wife.

436
00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:14,600
Speaker 4: Wanted to visit this community in Malaysia that is a

437
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:18,960
Speaker 4: Muslim society where the women are in control of everything,

438
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:20,960
Speaker 4: so it was of interest to her.

439
00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:24,320
Speaker 3: A few months after that trip, Baras started taking an

440
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:28,320
Speaker 3: interest in managing their finances herself. She told Dan she

441
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:31,240
Speaker 3: wanted her own private bank account, and he didn't see

442
00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:34,720
Speaker 3: any issue with that. After about five years at the

443
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:38,159
Speaker 3: raw Food resort in Indonesia, they were approached by a

444
00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:41,639
Speaker 3: land developer. He wanted to buy their land at a

445
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:45,159
Speaker 3: premium stage. Was about to go off to college and

446
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:48,040
Speaker 3: the twins were ten. The family was ready for a

447
00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:50,280
Speaker 3: new chapter, so they made the sale.

448
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:55,280
Speaker 4: We sold the property in Indonesia for three million dollars.

449
00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:59,199
Speaker 3: Dan and Bara put that money into a new family

450
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:02,680
Speaker 3: trust that they established in Malaysia. That's where they would

451
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:07,359
Speaker 3: be moving next. They'd had something similar in Indonesia, but

452
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:10,359
Speaker 3: not with nearly this amount of money in it. So

453
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:13,920
Speaker 3: the formation of this trust in Malaysia was a big deal.

454
00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:18,040
Speaker 4: This notion of a trust was very important to us.

455
00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:22,320
Speaker 4: People have understood what it was, but the word trust

456
00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:25,520
Speaker 4: I don't think had the same meaning to her that

457
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:26,240
Speaker 4: it had to me.

458
00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:32,280
Speaker 3: For Dan, the family trust was about ensuring safety for

459
00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:35,040
Speaker 3: their kids' futures. It was for his and far As

460
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:39,080
Speaker 3: future too. Like always, ownership of the trust would be

461
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:40,200
Speaker 3: divided evenly.

462
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:44,400
Speaker 4: The company we created in Indonesia was fifty to fifty held.

463
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:48,199
Speaker 4: The company that was created in Malaysia was held by

464
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:51,960
Speaker 4: the trust, which we were co creators of. We were

465
00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:54,920
Speaker 4: named in the trust as co granters, and we moved

466
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:56,840
Speaker 4: all the assets to Malaysia.

467
00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:00,480
Speaker 3: When they sold their property in Bali. They'd actually sold

468
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:04,400
Speaker 3: the land, not the houses they'd built. Those were theirs

469
00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:07,080
Speaker 3: if they could find a way to move them. The

470
00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:10,280
Speaker 3: big house had been a special project of Dan's.

471
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:13,720
Speaker 4: So then we decided, well, hey, let's bring the house

472
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:17,639
Speaker 4: from Indonesia to Malaysia because we didn't want to start

473
00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:18,440
Speaker 4: from scratch.

474
00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:22,160
Speaker 3: Their plan was to deconstruct the house in Bali piece

475
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:25,160
Speaker 3: by piece so they could rebuild it somewhere else.

476
00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:29,560
Speaker 4: We asked everybody from the village to come and help

477
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:33,400
Speaker 4: us knock down these houses, and within three days they

478
00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:36,960
Speaker 4: tore it down and packed it all up. So a

479
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:41,440
Speaker 4: few months later we had two giant shipping containers come

480
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:43,399
Speaker 4: to us in Malaysia with our house.

481
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:46,399
Speaker 3: They found a piece of land in Malaysia where they

482
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:50,359
Speaker 3: could reconstruct their dream home, and now they could afford

483
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:53,400
Speaker 3: to take their time. They hired an architect who saw

484
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:57,200
Speaker 3: their vision. The project became Dan and far As focus.

485
00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:01,520
Speaker 4: We have lovely time design and building and working with

486
00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:04,720
Speaker 4: the architects, and like we're working on something other than us.

487
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:06,960
Speaker 4: It wasn't about us, It was about this thing we

488
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:07,840
Speaker 4: were doing together.

489
00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:12,679
Speaker 3: When the house was completed, it was breathtaking picture a

490
00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:16,720
Speaker 3: jungle oasis with floor to ceiling windows and towering hand

491
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:21,280
Speaker 3: carved doors, tropical plants, and natural light flooding every room.

492
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:24,639
Speaker 3: And because it was the same structure they originally built

493
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:29,679
Speaker 3: in Bali, it wasn't just beautiful, it was meaningful. The

494
00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:33,119
Speaker 3: house was a symbol of what their family could accomplish together.

495
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:38,480
Speaker 4: We rebuilt our property that this gorgeous place, into this

496
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:39,679
Speaker 4: extraordinary house.

497
00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:43,960
Speaker 3: Once they got settled in Malaysia, Dan got back to work.

498
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 4: During this time, I opened a kind of a consulting

499
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:53,520
Speaker 4: company and I had some contracts with technology development work.

500
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 3: One of his main contracts was in a city a

501
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:59,199
Speaker 3: few hours away. But this time when he would come

502
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:02,560
Speaker 3: home from work to ups, he experienced a new level

503
00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:05,960
Speaker 3: of isolation. It was as if the whole family was

504
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:09,359
Speaker 3: giving him the silent treatment. When he asked Farah what

505
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:11,879
Speaker 3: was going on, she said she didn't know what he

506
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:15,760
Speaker 3: was talking about. So Dan responded by throwing himself into

507
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:18,840
Speaker 3: work and building up his own social network.

508
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:21,480
Speaker 4: With lots of my friends and people that I built

509
00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:25,600
Speaker 4: relationships with, like this architect and our next stortabor. I

510
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:27,919
Speaker 4: became good friends with them, but she never wanted to

511
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:28,800
Speaker 4: even go over there.

512
00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:32,440
Speaker 3: Dan was making enough for the family to live comfortably,

513
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:36,959
Speaker 3: and he liked his work. Around this time, Dan was

514
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:40,080
Speaker 3: offered a salary job. It paid a lot, but it

515
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:42,640
Speaker 3: was a role he didn't want. When he brought it

516
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:45,800
Speaker 3: up to Fara, she showed a renewed interest in Dan.

517
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:49,600
Speaker 4: My wife was pushing to try to get me to

518
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:52,480
Speaker 4: take this job. When I told her I'd turned it down,

519
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:55,800
Speaker 4: it was like she blew up. She was upset by this.

520
00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:58,600
Speaker 3: This is when Dan first heard about her desire for

521
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:02,360
Speaker 3: the women in the family to control the finances. You

522
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:06,400
Speaker 3: heard Stage talk about that earlier in the episode. Stage

523
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 3: had been in on this for years, but she was

524
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 3: told not to talk about it with her dad, so

525
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:15,440
Speaker 3: Dan was just learning about it in Malaysia.

526
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:19,720
Speaker 4: Of course, it's both it's all our money, but she's

527
00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:22,240
Speaker 4: the one who's kind of now starting to control it.

528
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:25,920
Speaker 3: If it was important to Fara to control the finances,

529
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:29,520
Speaker 3: he was okay with that. It gave him peace of mind,

530
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:31,920
Speaker 3: knowing that the trust was still held fifty to fifty

531
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:36,360
Speaker 3: with a friend of theirs serving as director. But after

532
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:40,080
Speaker 3: Fara took over management of the family's daily spending, the

533
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:42,480
Speaker 3: marriage deteriorated even further.

534
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 4: And it was like very tumultuous time. She argued with

535
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:49,680
Speaker 4: me and demanded that I move into the mataged quarters.

536
00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 3: Dan didn't even know what he'd done to make his

537
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 3: wife so upset, but now he was always walking on eggshells, and.

538
00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:01,640
Speaker 4: I thought we were still in love. This is where

539
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:05,959
Speaker 4: I realized that love wasn't the same thing. Love was

540
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:07,360
Speaker 4: transactional for her.

541
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:12,960
Speaker 3: Now that the house was nearly completed, Dan felt like

542
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:14,480
Speaker 3: he wasn't useful anymore.

543
00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:17,120
Speaker 4: There was no need for me anymore. I felt like

544
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:19,480
Speaker 4: I was Yeah, it was like good discard.

545
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:23,640
Speaker 3: Around that time, Dan was on a business trip when

546
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:24,400
Speaker 3: he was robbed.

547
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:27,680
Speaker 4: Guys on a motorcycle went and grabbed my bag and

548
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:30,880
Speaker 4: drove off with my computer and my passport and everything else.

549
00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:34,040
Speaker 3: He had to call Fara and beg for her help.

550
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:38,520
Speaker 5: This issue of me needing to get enough money to

551
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:42,440
Speaker 5: buy a computer that had been stolen, and what kind

552
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:46,040
Speaker 5: of position had I got myself into to be so

553
00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:50,560
Speaker 5: subservient to funds that were ours, to thinking that I

554
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:52,280
Speaker 5: had to beg for it.

555
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:56,120
Speaker 3: For Dan, this was an emotional breaking point.

556
00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:00,400
Speaker 4: I realized, Hey, there's something seriously wrong here. There was

557
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:01,680
Speaker 4: something that cracked.

558
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:05,120
Speaker 3: Dan managed to get himself back home. But when he

559
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:06,480
Speaker 3: arrived at the house.

560
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:10,640
Speaker 4: I go there, try my key. It doesn't work, and

561
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:13,920
Speaker 4: I realized, oh, she's changed the key. The doors had

562
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:17,760
Speaker 4: been locked, and I wasn't welcome anymore.

563
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:21,960
Speaker 3: With no other place to stay and no access to

564
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:26,480
Speaker 3: their money, Dan started sleeping in a friend's car.

565
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:32,480
Speaker 4: During that time, I basically ran out of funds we

566
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:37,680
Speaker 4: had playing joint funds, and she just wouldn't send any money.

567
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 4: And I felt suppressed from even asking. You know, I

568
00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:48,280
Speaker 4: was literally living out of a friend's car. I don't

569
00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:52,200
Speaker 4: think she thinks of it that way, but I was homeless.

570
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:53,840
Speaker 4: It pushed me into homelessness.

571
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:57,800
Speaker 3: Dan still believed that if he could just sit down

572
00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:00,480
Speaker 3: and talk with his wife, they could figure out a

573
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:04,920
Speaker 3: path forward. It would probably mean divorce and separating their assets.

574
00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:07,360
Speaker 3: He just wanted to look her in the eye and

575
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:08,760
Speaker 3: make the decision together.

576
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:13,440
Speaker 6: A few days later, I remember going to the house

577
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:19,000
Speaker 6: once trying to see her and just talk with her

578
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:21,840
Speaker 6: about this in just a very calm boy it just like,

579
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:22,600
Speaker 6: what's going on?

580
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:24,160
Speaker 4: What do we do about this?

581
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:27,880
Speaker 3: He knew Fara went on a bike ride every morning,

582
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:30,280
Speaker 3: so he waited for her by the front gate of

583
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:30,840
Speaker 3: their house.

584
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:34,520
Speaker 4: She was riding a bicycle toward me and I was

585
00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:39,400
Speaker 4: there ready to greet her. She looked straight ahead and

586
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:43,960
Speaker 4: acted as if I was a tree, just drove past

587
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:46,240
Speaker 4: me without even glancing my direction.

588
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:54,400
Speaker 3: That moment when Fara passed him on the bicycle was

589
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:57,320
Speaker 3: one of the last times Dan would ever see his wife,

590
00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:01,440
Speaker 3: because the next time he met with the accountants, you

591
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:04,040
Speaker 3: learned something that would alter the rest of his life.

592
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:07,880
Speaker 4: I went there and we were going over the documents

593
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:11,080
Speaker 4: and they said, well, the shares were transferred into your

594
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:14,240
Speaker 4: wife's name. I said, what the shares were?

595
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:14,520
Speaker 2: Chance?

596
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:17,560
Speaker 4: Those are the trust shairs that were transferred into my

597
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:19,760
Speaker 4: wife's name. Is he I have done the state and

598
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:21,680
Speaker 4: there's something And they were just daing as matter of

599
00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:24,680
Speaker 4: factly right. They showed me the documentation that said that

600
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:27,480
Speaker 4: this is the transfer and I said, well, what about

601
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:29,160
Speaker 4: the directorship and he says, yeah, well she was made

602
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:33,880
Speaker 4: director too, and I was just I was just dumbfounded.

603
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:37,440
Speaker 3: At that meeting, Dan had been completely locked out of

604
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:38,520
Speaker 3: their family trust.

605
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:45,080
Speaker 4: She only needed the approval of the trustee, so somehow

606
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:47,160
Speaker 4: she talked to the trustee.

607
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:50,600
Speaker 3: The trustee was a friend of theirs who lived locally.

608
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:54,440
Speaker 4: I think She started to work on him and said, Okay,

609
00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:56,760
Speaker 4: I'm gonna I'm transferring all this stuff over into into

610
00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:58,160
Speaker 4: my name. I'm going to be the director now. And

611
00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:01,960
Speaker 4: he wish went and did it. He just signed the papers, thinking,

612
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:04,440
Speaker 4: I mean that's what his claim was. Oh, it was

613
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:06,240
Speaker 4: you know, she's your wife, you know, as she's all

614
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:07,640
Speaker 4: been approved by her and you.

615
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:11,399
Speaker 3: Dan had not approved for his half of the trust

616
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:14,759
Speaker 3: shares to be transferred into his wife's name that gave

617
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 3: her sole access to their entire life savings, but he

618
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:22,719
Speaker 3: hadn't signed any documents. He had no knowledge of this transfer.

619
00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:27,000
Speaker 3: Dan immediately called their friend who'd been the trustee.

620
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:31,239
Speaker 4: I just remember being outraged that he would do this

621
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:34,200
Speaker 4: and how did this happen. We can't move on like this.

622
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:37,160
Speaker 4: Change it back. It has to be corrected. And I

623
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:38,759
Speaker 4: was absolutely adamant about it.

624
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:41,640
Speaker 3: But this isn't the kind of thing you can just

625
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:45,760
Speaker 3: request to change back. There was a lot of red tape.

626
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:48,960
Speaker 4: I worked for months, literally most of the rest of

627
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:52,719
Speaker 4: twenty seventeen. I talked to multiple attorneys about how do

628
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:55,239
Speaker 4: we do this because it's already been signed over. I

629
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:57,680
Speaker 4: talked to the trust attorney. He finally said to me. Listen,

630
00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:00,680
Speaker 4: You're gonna have to get an attorney to I can't

631
00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:02,920
Speaker 4: do anything because she's not going to agree to it,

632
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:04,799
Speaker 4: and the trust he can't do it on his own.

633
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:06,760
Speaker 4: And but you know, that's all kinds of crap.

634
00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:10,880
Speaker 3: Dan's life was on pause as he tried to educate

635
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:14,480
Speaker 3: himself about international trust laws and marriage laws.

636
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:19,920
Speaker 4: My entire life savings are tied up in this, and

637
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:22,600
Speaker 4: I'm literally penniless.

638
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:26,160
Speaker 3: If he wanted recourse, he would have to go through

639
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:27,640
Speaker 3: the Malaysian court system.

640
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:29,719
Speaker 4: I'm going to have to file suit, and I'm going

641
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:32,600
Speaker 4: to have to file suit against my wife and the

642
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:36,040
Speaker 4: company that's in the trust. Even my daughter has to

643
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:38,319
Speaker 4: be on the suit because she was the signatory to

644
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 4: the trust. It was just mind bendingly painful.

645
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:07,400
Speaker 3: For the final act of this story, we're going to

646
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:11,520
Speaker 3: hear from both Dan and Sage, because what happened next

647
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:16,399
Speaker 3: didn't just unfold around them. It happened between them.

648
00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:19,919
Speaker 2: Can I add on to that, Dad, Yeah, Yeah.

649
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:22,879
Speaker 3: We wanted to bring them together to tell the end

650
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:25,080
Speaker 3: of the story from their joint perspective.

651
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:29,080
Speaker 4: Sage, your experience was very different than my own because

652
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:32,840
Speaker 4: it comes from me being a husband rather than being

653
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:37,600
Speaker 4: a daughter totally different, but yet the same thing happens.

654
00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:42,239
Speaker 3: Sage had been hearing horrible stories about her dad. They'd

655
00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:45,359
Speaker 3: been kept away from each other for so long that

656
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:47,400
Speaker 3: they weren't living in the same reality.

657
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:51,600
Speaker 1: I was alienated from my dad for years because she

658
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:53,200
Speaker 1: told me he wasn't trustworthy.

659
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:56,960
Speaker 3: When Dan was locked out of the house, Sage was

660
00:36:56,960 --> 00:37:00,279
Speaker 3: in college. She was barely speaking to her father at

661
00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:04,160
Speaker 3: the time. She only heard her mother's version of the story.

662
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:06,160
Speaker 2: When she changed the locks.

663
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:08,239
Speaker 1: She then was posing it at the time as like

664
00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:12,680
Speaker 1: he's trying to break in and being like, I'm terrified,

665
00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:15,520
Speaker 1: And I remember being angry at my dad, like leave

666
00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:21,040
Speaker 1: her alone because she's making it seem like he's trying

667
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:23,840
Speaker 1: to like hurt her or something, and I never thought

668
00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:25,279
Speaker 1: he was capable of hurting her.

669
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:30,040
Speaker 3: After the trust was transferred out of his name, Dan

670
00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:32,759
Speaker 3: reached out to Sage to tell her what was going on.

671
00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:36,759
Speaker 3: That's when he began putting the pieces together about why

672
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:38,400
Speaker 3: Sage was so distant.

673
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:42,040
Speaker 4: I didn't realize that I had been spoken ill love

674
00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:45,880
Speaker 4: for many years, and so that the impressions that I

675
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:50,000
Speaker 4: got from my early discussions with Sage were that, Wow,

676
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:51,239
Speaker 4: you don't know me.

677
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:54,760
Speaker 3: Sage was twenty three and living in New York City

678
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:56,040
Speaker 3: when her dad called her.

679
00:37:56,960 --> 00:38:01,640
Speaker 2: He said, Hey, I want you to know I am

680
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:04,879
Speaker 2: filing a lawsuit against your mom, but because you were

681
00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:08,200
Speaker 2: on that document, I also have to sue you.

682
00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:11,520
Speaker 1: But it's like I'm going to cover your lawyer fees.

683
00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:14,000
Speaker 1: We're going to just get your statement and then.

684
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:17,319
Speaker 2: You'll be recused. He was talking to me about how

685
00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:19,360
Speaker 2: this was all going to work before doing it.

686
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:22,480
Speaker 3: But when Sage talked to her mom, she heard a

687
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:23,840
Speaker 3: completely different story.

688
00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:27,279
Speaker 2: It escalated to, like, why would you want to have

689
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:30,359
Speaker 2: a relationship with my abuser? Like you're an abuser too

690
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:32,440
Speaker 2: if you want to have a relationship with my abuser,

691
00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:33,800
Speaker 2: even if that person is your father.

692
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:38,680
Speaker 3: Her mom's story was confusing to her. Sage had mediated

693
00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:42,920
Speaker 3: her parents' fights before, but she had never seen anything physical.

694
00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:47,960
Speaker 3: In fact, Sage's personal experience of her dad was that

695
00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:50,040
Speaker 3: he was a quiet and gentle guy.

696
00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:52,440
Speaker 2: From the time I was born.

697
00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:58,240
Speaker 1: He was gentle, and he listens in all of the fights.

698
00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:02,640
Speaker 1: The times when my mom would be crazy, he wouldn't

699
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:06,080
Speaker 1: even raise his voice. I think I've heard him yell

700
00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:10,520
Speaker 1: twice in my life. I've never seen hurt an animal.

701
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:11,920
Speaker 1: I've never seen him hurt anything.

702
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:15,440
Speaker 3: When he first came to her in crisis, Sage was

703
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:17,720
Speaker 3: deeply conflicted about who to believe.

704
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:19,440
Speaker 2: I was like, I don't believe you.

705
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:22,680
Speaker 1: Show me the proof, and seeing the proof of like,

706
00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:26,560
Speaker 1: here's this money that was given to me, here's this,

707
00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:29,440
Speaker 1: here's what we bought. A huge part of that was

708
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:32,360
Speaker 1: his inheritance that even got us the house in Bali,

709
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:35,480
Speaker 1: and I was starting to believe in him.

710
00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:38,280
Speaker 3: But Sage still didn't want to be in the middle

711
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:42,320
Speaker 3: of this. She tried to completely remove herself from the situation.

712
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:45,360
Speaker 1: I got like a notarized letter that was just like

713
00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:48,320
Speaker 1: this should be solved between my parents.

714
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:49,840
Speaker 2: I should have never been on this document.

715
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:55,239
Speaker 3: This notarized letter didn't change anything. She was legally implicated

716
00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:55,560
Speaker 3: in this.

717
00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:58,120
Speaker 1: My dad was like, I don't want you to be

718
00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:00,759
Speaker 1: in the middle of it either, And you are in

719
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:03,759
Speaker 1: the middle of it. And I would start listening to

720
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:09,440
Speaker 1: him more. I was trained that he was so awful

721
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:13,160
Speaker 1: that like, you're just lying to me. But I was like,

722
00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:16,560
Speaker 1: I want to know what his side is. So I listened,

723
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:21,680
Speaker 1: and like we had a conversation where he told me

724
00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:23,560
Speaker 1: all the things like that were going on.

725
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:28,239
Speaker 3: Then Fara came to stage with a new document, one

726
00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:31,399
Speaker 3: that would close the trust entirely and make it much

727
00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:34,560
Speaker 3: harder for her dad to ever access his life savings.

728
00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:37,759
Speaker 3: If she signed this piece of paper, she would be

729
00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:41,880
Speaker 3: taking a side. There'd be no going back stage. Didn't

730
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:44,520
Speaker 3: want to be responsible for the millions of dollars in

731
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:47,960
Speaker 3: shared assets her parents were fighting over, and she.

732
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:50,600
Speaker 2: Was supposed to it as I just need your signature

733
00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:54,000
Speaker 2: on this thing, just need your one signature, and I

734
00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:56,680
Speaker 2: told her, no, I'm not going to sign it because

735
00:40:56,760 --> 00:40:58,440
Speaker 2: I don't want to be in the middle of this.

736
00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:02,440
Speaker 3: But saying no to her mother was the red button.

737
00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:05,640
Speaker 1: It felt like me choosing not to sign it was

738
00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:08,200
Speaker 1: me choosing to not have a relationship with her. I

739
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:10,520
Speaker 1: could just sign it and then this would be over

740
00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:12,879
Speaker 1: and I wouldn't have to deal with this excruciating pain.

741
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:15,359
Speaker 1: But I didn't, And that was like the first time

742
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:17,480
Speaker 1: that she truly stopped speaking to me.

743
00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:19,960
Speaker 3: And then came the call from her dad.

744
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:24,160
Speaker 1: He called me and was like, did you sign the document?

745
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:26,600
Speaker 1: And I said no, I didn't. I promise you I

746
00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:30,200
Speaker 1: didn't sign the document and he was like, you didn't

747
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:31,759
Speaker 1: sign here you one hundred percent sure, and I'm like,

748
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:33,840
Speaker 1: I this was the hardest thing I've ever done in

749
00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:34,360
Speaker 1: my life.

750
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:35,640
Speaker 2: I'm one hundred percent sure.

751
00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:38,319
Speaker 1: I didn't sign the document, and he was like, your

752
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:39,800
Speaker 1: signature is on the document.

753
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:43,800
Speaker 2: I just told my dad again and again I didn't

754
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:45,640
Speaker 2: do it, and he believed me.

755
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:50,720
Speaker 3: Then how did her signature get on the document? Sage

756
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:53,799
Speaker 3: felt like her own boundaries had been violated.

757
00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:03,880
Speaker 2: And then I started therapy. Also, really really was the

758
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:07,520
Speaker 2: thing that helped me process and understand and start to

759
00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:11,160
Speaker 2: gain clarity. It was through therapy that I started to

760
00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:15,080
Speaker 2: set boundaries with her, and then it's.

761
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:19,360
Speaker 3: Over Going to therapy helped Sage understand that her dynamic

762
00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:23,200
Speaker 3: with her mom was not normal, like how her mom

763
00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:26,680
Speaker 3: would react whenever Sage wasn't doing what she wanted.

764
00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:29,560
Speaker 1: She would pretend she had a knife and she'd be like,

765
00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:31,440
Speaker 1: this is what you're doing to me, like stabbing her,

766
00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:32,520
Speaker 1: like it was awful.

767
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:35,880
Speaker 3: When Sage moved to New York, she began forming her

768
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:40,879
Speaker 3: own identity separate from her mom. She started making new

769
00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:44,360
Speaker 3: friends and forming new ideas about the world. Instead of

770
00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:48,359
Speaker 3: being happy for her, far began ignoring Sage's calls and

771
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:54,160
Speaker 3: distancing herself emotionally from Sage. Meanwhile, Dan's case moved forward,

772
00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:57,759
Speaker 3: a hearing was set in Malaysia, and Sage made a

773
00:42:57,800 --> 00:42:59,280
Speaker 3: decision she never.

774
00:42:59,160 --> 00:42:59,840
Speaker 2: Thought she would.

775
00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:03,560
Speaker 1: Ultimately, I decided to be involved in the court case.

776
00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:06,319
Speaker 1: I think it was also for myself because I think

777
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:08,319
Speaker 1: there was something about that that was healing. To get

778
00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:12,479
Speaker 1: to finally say this happened to me in a public way.

779
00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:17,680
Speaker 3: Sage submitted a notarized epidavit to the Malaysian court declaring

780
00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:20,840
Speaker 3: that she did not sign for the revocation of the trust,

781
00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:24,000
Speaker 3: nor did she have any knowledge of the transfer of

782
00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:28,640
Speaker 3: the trust assets or knowledge of Bara becoming director. When

783
00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:31,600
Speaker 3: the hearing date came, she and her dad went together

784
00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:35,839
Speaker 3: to Malaysia and Sage took the stand, giving an emotional

785
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:39,479
Speaker 3: testimony about the ways she felt manipulated by her mother.

786
00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:44,160
Speaker 3: Sage didn't expect the way her mom's lawyers responded to

787
00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:45,120
Speaker 3: her testimony.

788
00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:50,080
Speaker 4: During her testimony, they showed a picture of us happily,

789
00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:53,359
Speaker 4: you know, in a family gathering with us together. We're

790
00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:55,920
Speaker 4: all smiling in the picture, and they says, is this

791
00:43:56,120 --> 00:43:58,719
Speaker 4: looks like you're being abused or is this like a

792
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:03,200
Speaker 4: pictures showing that you are abused, and of course you

793
00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:05,040
Speaker 4: look at the things you're just saying, no, I mean

794
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:08,719
Speaker 4: I look happy, you know. But the reality is is

795
00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:11,759
Speaker 4: that what is in a picture doesn't show what's really

796
00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:12,680
Speaker 4: behind the scenes.

797
00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:17,879
Speaker 1: Being told literally to my face. Would someone who's being

798
00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:20,479
Speaker 1: abused look like this on a holiday vacation? Would someone

799
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:23,200
Speaker 1: who's being abused be smiling like this? Your mom has

800
00:44:23,239 --> 00:44:25,680
Speaker 1: done this, this, and this humanitarian for the world, like

801
00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:27,000
Speaker 1: you're just lying.

802
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:33,080
Speaker 3: That contradiction between her humanitarian work and her family's lived

803
00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:37,560
Speaker 3: experience with her was also something Dan in Sage had

804
00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:39,520
Speaker 3: to come to terms with themselves.

805
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:42,759
Speaker 1: It's not always just a black and white someone is

806
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:45,600
Speaker 1: good or evil. That you can have parts of you

807
00:44:45,719 --> 00:44:47,920
Speaker 1: that are good and it doesn't take away from the

808
00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:49,760
Speaker 1: fact that you can do something terrible.

809
00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:53,200
Speaker 3: When Dan looks back on all the humanitarian work Fara

810
00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:55,440
Speaker 3: has done, he sees a pattern.

811
00:44:56,600 --> 00:44:59,120
Speaker 4: In retrospect. It looks like she was doing a lot

812
00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:03,399
Speaker 4: of these right things for the wrong reasons. The right

813
00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:07,239
Speaker 4: things were like medicines to Iraq, you know, doing all

814
00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:12,680
Speaker 4: these wonderful things, but it wasn't for the reasons I

815
00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:16,160
Speaker 4: thought it was for the reasons that it got her attention.

816
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:19,520
Speaker 4: It got her notoriety. That's what she loved.

817
00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:23,960
Speaker 3: After the hearing, they waited for the ruling, and when

818
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:26,600
Speaker 3: the decision came, they were shocked.

819
00:45:27,640 --> 00:45:31,600
Speaker 4: They dismissed the case. How could that be? But they

820
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:36,160
Speaker 4: didn't know why. I didn't know why it had been dismissed.

821
00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:39,239
Speaker 4: There was not a judgment, there was only a dismissal.

822
00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:42,400
Speaker 4: That's strange, is this never happens.

823
00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:47,280
Speaker 3: Even Dan's attorney was confused. He'd been confident in their case.

824
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:52,400
Speaker 3: An outright dismissal wasn't even on the radar, but the

825
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:55,480
Speaker 3: court was saying Dan didn't even have a leg to

826
00:45:55,520 --> 00:45:55,960
Speaker 3: stand on.

827
00:45:57,000 --> 00:46:00,879
Speaker 4: I just immediately said, that's wrong. Can't have this.

828
00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:05,520
Speaker 3: Dan's dad had been a judge. As a kid, he'd

829
00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:08,719
Speaker 3: sit in his dad's courtroom and bang the gavel. He

830
00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:12,200
Speaker 3: was raised to value justice and fairness, and when his

831
00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:16,320
Speaker 3: case in Malaysia was dismissed, he felt justice had been denied.

832
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:20,719
Speaker 4: The core part of that shock to me was that

833
00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:27,319
Speaker 4: they had completely ignored Sage's testimony. It basically said in there,

834
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:30,799
Speaker 4: she's not believable. And this was like hit me to

835
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:33,719
Speaker 4: the core. It's like, how could that be? You know,

836
00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:39,880
Speaker 4: this is not something that you ignore. I don't know, Sage,

837
00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:41,160
Speaker 4: how did that make you feel?

838
00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:44,600
Speaker 2: That felt so degrading.

839
00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:52,760
Speaker 1: I spoke the truth To then not be believed hurts

840
00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:53,319
Speaker 1: even more.

841
00:46:55,719 --> 00:46:59,120
Speaker 3: Dan wanted to appeal the dismissal, but to move forward

842
00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:03,280
Speaker 3: he would have to pay fifty thousand dollars. They didn't

843
00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:06,480
Speaker 3: have that money, so Sage had an idea to start

844
00:47:06,520 --> 00:47:10,560
Speaker 3: a GoFundMe sharing their story and trying to fundraise for

845
00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:11,560
Speaker 3: the appeal fees.

846
00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:15,360
Speaker 4: And I had to promote this go fundme thing to

847
00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:21,040
Speaker 4: my professional community. I'm sure I lost some respect because

848
00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:23,560
Speaker 4: people just maybe just didn't believe it.

849
00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:27,239
Speaker 3: It was embarrassing for Dan. Sage helped write the fundraiser

850
00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:31,400
Speaker 3: page telling the story of what happened to their family. Trust,

851
00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:36,279
Speaker 3: friends and colleagues of Dan submitted testimonies about him. But

852
00:47:36,440 --> 00:47:39,480
Speaker 3: after they put up the page, Baras sent a letter

853
00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:42,000
Speaker 3: threatening to sue Dan for defamation.

854
00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:45,400
Speaker 4: This letter was trying to silence me and trying to

855
00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:49,640
Speaker 4: literally prevent me from raising money to protect myself.

856
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:56,160
Speaker 1: I think initially when she sent the letter, my response

857
00:47:56,280 --> 00:47:57,759
Speaker 1: was put it in my name. Then she has to

858
00:47:57,840 --> 00:48:00,520
Speaker 1: sue me, and that looks worse, And then I think

859
00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:02,120
Speaker 1: we didn't even end up doing that because it's like

860
00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:03,080
Speaker 1: we're telling the truth.

861
00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:09,040
Speaker 2: You actually don't get to keep silencing the story. Stop.

862
00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:10,960
Speaker 2: We're allowed to have our voices.

863
00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:15,160
Speaker 3: In the end, they didn't raise the money they needed

864
00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:15,920
Speaker 3: for the appeal.

865
00:48:16,560 --> 00:48:19,680
Speaker 4: I lost the appeal not on grounds, but on procedural

866
00:48:19,840 --> 00:48:21,799
Speaker 4: and it's like we didn't pay the money. He lost

867
00:48:21,800 --> 00:48:22,200
Speaker 4: the suit.

868
00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:26,320
Speaker 3: There are safeguards in place in California, where Dan filed

869
00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:31,520
Speaker 3: for divorce. California imposes a temporary restraining order over financial

870
00:48:31,560 --> 00:48:36,800
Speaker 3: assets while divorce is pending. Those laws don't apply in Malaysia.

871
00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:40,440
Speaker 3: Dan worries that even if he can get access to

872
00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:43,600
Speaker 3: the trust again, the money may not be there anymore.

873
00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:47,719
Speaker 3: And the same goes for his cherished home in Malaysia.

874
00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:49,600
Speaker 4: Not only did she put it up for sale in

875
00:48:49,719 --> 00:48:53,279
Speaker 4: January against those orders. I found out since that there's

876
00:48:53,320 --> 00:48:58,400
Speaker 4: a crypto site that sells real estate promoting the property.

877
00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:03,120
Speaker 3: Today Dan's case is trapped in a thicket of international law.

878
00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:06,640
Speaker 3: It's been seven years since he discovered he was removed

879
00:49:06,640 --> 00:49:09,719
Speaker 3: from the family trust. It's meant Dan spent most of

880
00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:13,719
Speaker 3: his sixties locked out of his life savings. His late

881
00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:16,240
Speaker 3: dad had loved a safety deposit box with a few

882
00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:19,640
Speaker 3: thousand dollars worth of coins and stocks that Dan was

883
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:20,960
Speaker 3: able to access.

884
00:49:21,640 --> 00:49:23,799
Speaker 4: It was only because of that money that I was

885
00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:25,600
Speaker 4: able to depart Malaysia.

886
00:49:26,320 --> 00:49:28,560
Speaker 3: He moved back to the US and found a cheap

887
00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:30,399
Speaker 3: apartment to rent and.

888
00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:33,440
Speaker 4: Just kind of scraped by until I could apply for

889
00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:36,280
Speaker 4: Social Security. And then I lived basically on one thousand

890
00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:38,160
Speaker 4: dollars a month, and I have been ever since.

891
00:49:40,200 --> 00:49:42,600
Speaker 3: For those first few years back in the US, Dan

892
00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:45,440
Speaker 3: was in a dark place. He felt like he'd failed

893
00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:48,640
Speaker 3: his children. He spent a lot of time reconnecting with

894
00:49:48,680 --> 00:49:52,480
Speaker 3: his daughter and grieving with her. These days, Stage is

895
00:49:52,520 --> 00:49:55,799
Speaker 3: no longer religious. While the decision to step away from

896
00:49:55,840 --> 00:49:58,879
Speaker 3: religion has been healthy and right for her, she knows

897
00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:02,120
Speaker 3: that Islam as a religion was never the problem. It

898
00:50:02,200 --> 00:50:04,800
Speaker 3: was a way that Fara used religion as a tool

899
00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:09,319
Speaker 3: of control to elevate herself, to demand obedience, and to

900
00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:13,759
Speaker 3: justify her behavior. The harm Fara caused was specific to her,

901
00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:18,320
Speaker 3: not to Islam. Going to therapy has helped Sage understand

902
00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:21,640
Speaker 3: those patterns in her mom's behavior. She's even brought her

903
00:50:21,719 --> 00:50:24,440
Speaker 3: dad to some of her therapy sessions for them to

904
00:50:24,520 --> 00:50:25,440
Speaker 3: process together.

905
00:50:26,239 --> 00:50:29,400
Speaker 4: One of the things that I think was extremely positive

906
00:50:29,480 --> 00:50:33,279
Speaker 4: about this was that suddenly Sage and I could have

907
00:50:33,320 --> 00:50:39,160
Speaker 4: a relationship that was based on truth. We'd basically set

908
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:42,160
Speaker 4: everything to each other about how we felt about each

909
00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:46,040
Speaker 4: other and understanding ourselves. I mean, there were things revealed

910
00:50:46,040 --> 00:50:49,320
Speaker 4: that Sage didn't know about me and me about her.

911
00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:53,520
Speaker 4: I heard that Sage had a crisis in BALI that

912
00:50:53,800 --> 00:50:58,520
Speaker 4: I was oblivious to. I was oblivious to partly because

913
00:50:58,560 --> 00:51:00,960
Speaker 4: of the hiding and the keeping things from me. But

914
00:51:01,480 --> 00:51:04,960
Speaker 4: I'm sad now because I wasn't there to recognize that

915
00:51:05,120 --> 00:51:08,640
Speaker 4: and to see it. And you know, I'm yeah, I'm

916
00:51:08,680 --> 00:51:11,920
Speaker 4: sorry that I wasn't there. There was kind of a

917
00:51:12,040 --> 00:51:16,160
Speaker 4: breaking of the silence and allowing us to, you know,

918
00:51:16,239 --> 00:51:17,680
Speaker 4: I could be a parent again.

919
00:51:19,480 --> 00:51:24,080
Speaker 1: Getting to process that was really healing, because that anger

920
00:51:24,160 --> 00:51:27,840
Speaker 1: can then turn into forgiveness and the relationship that we

921
00:51:27,880 --> 00:51:30,759
Speaker 1: have now he's not just my dad, but we're also

922
00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:31,600
Speaker 1: really good friends.

923
00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:36,800
Speaker 3: Their relationship today is incredibly strong. They live fifteen minutes

924
00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:39,960
Speaker 3: away from each other, They have breakfast together once a

925
00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:42,400
Speaker 3: week and walk Stage's dog on the beach.

926
00:51:43,120 --> 00:51:46,520
Speaker 1: I think part of the healing too, is like just

927
00:51:46,640 --> 00:51:49,600
Speaker 1: getting to have a relationship that's not about any of

928
00:51:49,640 --> 00:51:53,799
Speaker 1: what we went through and having just fun and like

929
00:51:54,360 --> 00:51:58,800
Speaker 1: kind of a fresh start. He will design woodworking tables

930
00:51:58,800 --> 00:52:01,040
Speaker 1: for me and we'll go build it at the woodworking studio.

931
00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:03,520
Speaker 1: So we're making a dining table. Dat I sent you

932
00:52:03,560 --> 00:52:04,960
Speaker 1: the ones I like, And you have to make the

933
00:52:05,000 --> 00:52:05,760
Speaker 1: cat drives.

934
00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:07,560
Speaker 2: You promise, I know, I know.

935
00:52:07,680 --> 00:52:08,959
Speaker 4: We have to figure that out.

936
00:52:09,320 --> 00:52:12,640
Speaker 1: And you're so good at building and crafting and creating.

937
00:52:13,840 --> 00:52:17,560
Speaker 3: Anger and resentment just aren't in their nature. Even though

938
00:52:17,600 --> 00:52:21,120
Speaker 3: they experienced a life changing betrayal and a loss that

939
00:52:21,120 --> 00:52:24,239
Speaker 3: they might never see resolved, Dan wants to spend the

940
00:52:24,280 --> 00:52:27,480
Speaker 3: rest of his life focused on what he does have now,

941
00:52:27,920 --> 00:52:29,960
Speaker 3: which is a relationship with his kids.

942
00:52:31,400 --> 00:52:33,680
Speaker 1: Justice is like a huge word for you that like

943
00:52:34,080 --> 00:52:36,600
Speaker 1: you want justice and you want and like what does

944
00:52:36,640 --> 00:52:39,680
Speaker 1: that look like? And I think the reality of where

945
00:52:39,719 --> 00:52:41,839
Speaker 1: we are now is it might not look like what

946
00:52:42,040 --> 00:52:44,080
Speaker 1: we wanted it to look like in our heads.

947
00:52:44,320 --> 00:52:46,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, it may not be just. I mean that justice

948
00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:50,200
Speaker 4: doesn't have to exist. It sometimes doesn't.

949
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:52,200
Speaker 1: Well, I think, but I think it's more that it

950
00:52:53,280 --> 00:52:56,759
Speaker 1: like the justice that we have is that we have

951
00:52:56,920 --> 00:53:00,640
Speaker 1: this relationship, which is more valuable than any of the

952
00:53:00,680 --> 00:53:03,239
Speaker 1: money or any of the things, and she doesn't get

953
00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:07,600
Speaker 1: to have that. In many ways, I still love my

954
00:53:07,680 --> 00:53:12,520
Speaker 1: mom and I still have worry and concern for her,

955
00:53:12,800 --> 00:53:17,239
Speaker 1: and I think, damn it, I think that like.

956
00:53:19,080 --> 00:53:21,360
Speaker 2: She's very lonely. Like that's sad.

957
00:53:21,400 --> 00:53:26,040
Speaker 1: You know, she's pushed everyone away so much that she's alone,

958
00:53:26,360 --> 00:53:29,200
Speaker 1: and like what an awful Like underneath all of the

959
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:34,000
Speaker 1: personality stuff that goes on is someone who's deeply alone.

960
00:53:34,320 --> 00:53:39,080
Speaker 2: And probably I don't know, Like it's just I think.

961
00:53:41,760 --> 00:53:46,000
Speaker 1: We're pretty cool, dad, and like getting to have this

962
00:53:46,239 --> 00:53:50,440
Speaker 1: relationship is actually more valuable than any of the money

963
00:53:50,520 --> 00:53:51,879
Speaker 1: or any of the things.

964
00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:55,680
Speaker 2: And maybe that is justice.

965
00:53:55,880 --> 00:53:58,720
Speaker 4: Now that I have my family back, literally my daughter

966
00:53:58,760 --> 00:54:02,600
Speaker 4: and my two kids, that is the thing that feels

967
00:54:02,840 --> 00:54:05,600
Speaker 4: just and feels right and feels like something that's been

968
00:54:05,640 --> 00:54:07,160
Speaker 4: denied and is now restored.

969
00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:12,000
Speaker 3: We end every weekly episode with the same question, why

970
00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:13,280
Speaker 3: do you want to share your story?

971
00:54:14,000 --> 00:54:18,480
Speaker 4: This is about transformation, right, How can I be better

972
00:54:18,520 --> 00:54:21,960
Speaker 4: as a result of the impact of this. I could

973
00:54:22,040 --> 00:54:24,520
Speaker 4: just swallow in it like I did for a long time,

974
00:54:24,800 --> 00:54:27,040
Speaker 4: But if we want a better world, we should build

975
00:54:27,040 --> 00:54:30,480
Speaker 4: a better world and design a better world. So I'd

976
00:54:30,520 --> 00:54:33,880
Speaker 4: like to go from an understanding of this betrayal to

977
00:54:34,480 --> 00:54:37,600
Speaker 4: building a blueprint for a better world.

978
00:54:38,160 --> 00:54:42,000
Speaker 3: As for why Sage is telling the story with her dad, all.

979
00:54:41,840 --> 00:54:45,319
Speaker 1: Of this is not to make her the devil, you know,

980
00:54:45,480 --> 00:54:48,520
Speaker 1: like it's That's not what the goal of this is

981
00:54:48,600 --> 00:54:51,319
Speaker 1: for any of us. It's more to be able to

982
00:54:52,239 --> 00:54:57,560
Speaker 1: share our experiences and be one hundred percent truthful. I'm

983
00:54:57,600 --> 00:55:00,560
Speaker 1: aware that she's not going to like it. She has

984
00:55:00,760 --> 00:55:05,800
Speaker 1: vilified him to so many communities, but I think getting

985
00:55:05,840 --> 00:55:10,000
Speaker 1: to see him tell his story matters, and getting to

986
00:55:10,200 --> 00:55:14,920
Speaker 1: have him get some sort of justice matters, and I

987
00:55:14,920 --> 00:55:18,400
Speaker 1: think part of that is being heard and believed. I'm

988
00:55:18,480 --> 00:55:21,320
Speaker 1: sorry he had to go through what he's going through

989
00:55:22,120 --> 00:55:24,960
Speaker 1: because he didn't deserve it. I hope that on the

990
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:28,520
Speaker 1: other side of this is healing for him too, because

991
00:55:28,520 --> 00:55:29,160
Speaker 1: he deserves that.

992
00:55:34,880 --> 00:55:37,320
Speaker 3: On the next episode of Betrayal Weekly.

993
00:55:38,520 --> 00:55:44,680
Speaker 7: They had a recording that showed the hillside just calm, quiet, settled,

994
00:55:45,239 --> 00:55:50,000
Speaker 7: and then right after that it was the recording of

995
00:55:50,719 --> 00:55:54,880
Speaker 7: the same exact spot, the same exact house burning to

996
00:55:54,960 --> 00:55:59,120
Speaker 7: the ground.

997
00:56:00,960 --> 00:56:02,760
Speaker 3: If you would like to reach out to the Betrayal

998
00:56:02,800 --> 00:56:05,680
Speaker 3: team or want to tell us your betrayal story, email

999
00:56:05,800 --> 00:56:10,080
Speaker 3: us at Betrayalpod at gmail dot com. That's Betrayal Pod

1000
00:56:10,400 --> 00:56:13,959
Speaker 3: at gmail dot com, or follow us on Instagram at

1001
00:56:13,960 --> 00:56:18,120
Speaker 3: Betrayal Pod. You can also connect with me on Instagram

1002
00:56:18,239 --> 00:56:22,720
Speaker 3: at It's Andrea Gunning. To access our newsletter, view additional content,

1003
00:56:22,920 --> 00:56:26,279
Speaker 3: and connect with the Betrayal community, join our substack at

1004
00:56:26,280 --> 00:56:30,120
Speaker 3: Betrayal dot substack dot com. We're grateful for your support.

1005
00:56:30,640 --> 00:56:32,839
Speaker 3: One way to show support is by subscribing to our

1006
00:56:32,880 --> 00:56:35,600
Speaker 3: show on Apple Podcasts and don't forget to rate and

1007
00:56:35,600 --> 00:56:39,040
Speaker 3: review Betrayal five star reviews go a long way. A

1008
00:56:39,120 --> 00:56:42,680
Speaker 3: big thank you to all of our listeners. Betrayal is

1009
00:56:42,680 --> 00:56:45,640
Speaker 3: a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment

1010
00:56:45,640 --> 00:56:49,360
Speaker 3: Group and partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show is executive

1011
00:56:49,400 --> 00:56:53,040
Speaker 3: produced by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Fason, hosted and produced

1012
00:56:53,040 --> 00:56:57,040
Speaker 3: by me Andrea Gunning. This episode was written and produced

1013
00:56:57,040 --> 00:57:00,719
Speaker 3: by Olivia Hewitt and Monique Leboord, with additional production from

1014
00:57:00,760 --> 00:57:05,640
Speaker 3: Ben Fetterman, casting support from Curry Richmond. Our iHeart team

1015
00:57:05,680 --> 00:57:09,680
Speaker 3: is Ali Perry and Jessica Krincheck. Audio editing and mixing

1016
00:57:09,719 --> 00:57:13,560
Speaker 3: by Matt del Vechio. Additional audio editing by Tanner Robbins.

1017
00:57:14,120 --> 00:57:18,880
Speaker 3: Betrayal's theme composed by Oliver Bain's music library provided by

1018
00:57:18,920 --> 00:57:22,560
Speaker 3: my Music. And for more podcasts from iHeart, visit the

1019
00:57:22,600 --> 00:57:30,959
Speaker 3: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.