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Speaker 1: So y'all probably know that I'm a big fan of

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Speaker 1: science fiction. I watch science fiction movies TV. I read

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Speaker 1: all sorts of science fiction books all the time. Send

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Speaker 1: me your suggestions, please. But something that crops up all

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Speaker 1: the time in science fiction, something those authors and those

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Speaker 1: writers can't seem to resist, is time travel. The narrative

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Speaker 1: opportunities opened up by being able to move your characters

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Speaker 1: forward in time, or go back and meet themselves, or

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Speaker 1: interfere with themselves, or jump on another timeline. You see

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Speaker 1: it everywhere these days. But you know, science has rules

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Speaker 1: to it, and so time travel opens up complications, not

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Speaker 1: just opportunities. And so on today's show, we're going to

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Speaker 1: be talking to authors and screenwriters about how they've dealt

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Speaker 1: with the complications of time travel in their fiction. Welcome

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Speaker 1: to Daniel and Kelly's Extraordinary Universe.

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Speaker 2: I'm Kelly Wiener Smith, and I used to hold out

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Speaker 2: hope for the kind of time travel you see in

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Speaker 2: movies until I started spending.

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Speaker 3: Time with Dan.

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Speaker 4: Hi. I'm Daniel.

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Speaker 1: I'm a particle physicist, and I love crushing Kelly's dreams.

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Speaker 3: When you're so good at it.

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Speaker 4: It's not me, it's science.

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Speaker 1: Science has been ruining everything delicious since fifteen forty seven

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Speaker 1: or whatever.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I think you and I actually both pushed

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Speaker 2: that agenda regularly.

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Speaker 1: And though you know, while science does say that some

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Speaker 1: things you always wanted to do are impossible, it also

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Speaker 1: opens doors we never expected and reveals crazy truths about

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Speaker 1: the world. So sometimes science is on the fun side

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Speaker 1: of life.

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Speaker 2: Well, and you know, we've got like all of human

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Speaker 2: knowledge in a tiny little thing that fits in our pockets.

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Speaker 3: Now, like, that's pretty sweet. I have no complaints.

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Speaker 4: That's right.

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Speaker 1: You are listening to us because of some science. Otherwise

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Speaker 1: you'd have to travel to Virginia and California somehow simultaneously

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Speaker 1: to have a conversation with us. So science has made

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Speaker 1: this possible.

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Speaker 2: And now you don't have to go to California. You're welcome. Sorry,

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Speaker 2: you don't get to come to Virginia.

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Speaker 5: Though.

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Speaker 1: I don't think I agree that that's a benefit. But anyway,

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Speaker 1: you are all auditorially transported to California.

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Speaker 3: All right.

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Speaker 2: Well, so today we are talking about time travel, and

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Speaker 2: we're doing some incredible interviews with people who have written

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Speaker 2: and made movies about time travel. So my question for you, Daniel,

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Speaker 2: if you could go back in time and see anything,

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Speaker 2: and you only had one place.

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Speaker 3: You could go, You could only use the time machine once.

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Speaker 3: What would you see?

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Speaker 1: Oh wow, such a good question. So many things to see,

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Speaker 1: you know. It frustrates me that there are facts out

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Speaker 1: there about the universe which would change the entire way

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Speaker 1: we see ourselves in the context of our lives if

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Speaker 1: we knew them. You know, how life began on Earth,

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Speaker 1: for example, or how humans evolve. All these things are

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Speaker 1: so crucial. But if I only had one, I think

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Speaker 1: I would want a universe sized reveal, and I would

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Speaker 1: go back to thirteen point six billion years ago and

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Speaker 1: see what happened just before the Big Bang, What was

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Speaker 1: the state of the universe, what was going on there?

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Speaker 1: I think, Yeah, that would be my choice.

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Speaker 3: Oh that's interesting.

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Speaker 2: So you are not only assuming that you can travel

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Speaker 2: back in time, but you are also assuming that your

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Speaker 2: body can survive under conditions that it probably couldn't survive in,

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Speaker 2: like you would go back in time in like a safe,

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Speaker 2: protective bubble or something.

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Speaker 4: Well, who built this time machine?

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Speaker 1: Because if I'm responsible for it, then no, I'm not

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Speaker 1: trusting it in the Big Bang. But if you know

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Speaker 1: somebody who actually knows what they're doing, like an engineer

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Speaker 1: put this thing together. Then yeah, I'm going back to

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Speaker 1: the Big Bang. And you know what, even if I perish,

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Speaker 1: I would still like to go back and know because

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Speaker 1: that knowledge would be so powerful, knowing how our universe began,

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Speaker 1: the one true story of our universe. Wow, that would

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Speaker 1: be incredible to know.

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Speaker 2: Would you be okay with perishing even if it meant

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Speaker 2: that the answer couldn't be transmitted back to the presence, Like,

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Speaker 2: it's enough that just you know.

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Speaker 1: Maybe I could somehow leave a message for the future,

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Speaker 1: you know, like in the pattern of the cosmic microwave

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Speaker 1: background radiation. That would be pretty cool. Wouldn't it be

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Speaker 1: amazing to be doing research like that, to see photons

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Speaker 1: in the night sky, to analyze the data, and then

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Speaker 1: to see an awesome message in that data from somebody

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Speaker 1: who had traveled back. Wow, that sounds like a great

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Speaker 1: science fiction story.

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Speaker 2: Daniel says, it's forty two, Okay, So this is clearly

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Speaker 2: a lot of fun to think about. So it's no

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Speaker 2: surprise that it shows up in a bunch of movies

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Speaker 2: and TV shows. And I was just at Disney and

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Speaker 2: it was in like The Guardians of the Galaxy ride,

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Speaker 2: and my daughter was asking a bunch of questions about

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Speaker 2: whether or not they were right about the Big Bang,

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Speaker 2: and then she zoned out five seconds into the explanation.

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Speaker 3: But I'll get there.

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Speaker 2: But you follow a lot of instances where this happens

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Speaker 2: in books and movies and stuff. And so we are

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Speaker 2: chatting with some people you know who have written about this.

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Speaker 2: For POPSI that's right.

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Speaker 1: Time travel appears all over the place in science fiction,

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Speaker 1: and so I'm always curious like how authors work the

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Speaker 1: science of time travel into it, how they deal with

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Speaker 1: the potential contradictions, you know, the mechanics of making a

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Speaker 1: story work when you can basically make up the rules,

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Speaker 1: and the rules don't always have to be self consistent.

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Speaker 1: So today we're going to talk to two authors who

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Speaker 1: have dealt with that in their books and in their movies.

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Speaker 1: Books and movies I think are really fun and totally

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Speaker 1: worth reading and watching. But first we're going to talk

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Speaker 1: about the science of time travel, so that you can

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Speaker 1: have in your head what's possible and what's nonsense.

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Speaker 2: Let's play a game and let's see if from our

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Speaker 2: conversations I can explain if time travel is possible.

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Speaker 4: I'd love to hear that.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So my understanding from our conversations is that time

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Speaker 2: can curve a little bit, and I guess I'm not

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Speaker 2: one hundred percent able to remember and articulate the reasons why,

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Speaker 2: but time curves. It's possible you could go back in

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Speaker 2: time a little maybe for short periods, but you couldn't

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Speaker 2: do it ever if it broke causality. Did I remember

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Speaker 2: those points? Your face tells me I didn't get it.

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Speaker 3: One hundred percent.

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Speaker 1: No, that's the right spirit of it. There are a

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Speaker 1: couple of technical issues there. You know, what do we

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Speaker 1: mean when we say time curves. What we really mean

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Speaker 1: is that clocks don't run the same for everybody. So

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Speaker 1: for example, if you're near a black hole, I'll see

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Speaker 1: your clock running slower and you'll see my clock running faster.

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Speaker 1: So that's what we mean when we say, like time curves,

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Speaker 1: it's really just time diletion. And you'll notice that in

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Speaker 1: both those cases clocks.

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Speaker 4: Are running forwards.

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Speaker 1: So you can have weird things like I think this

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Speaker 1: star blew up before that star, and you can think

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Speaker 1: the opposite, that the order of events is different, But

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Speaker 1: that's not exactly going back in time. That's just saying

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Speaker 1: there is no universal clock in the universe, and people

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Speaker 1: can disagree about how fast clocks are running and the

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Speaker 1: order of events, so there is some flexibility there, But

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Speaker 1: actually going back in time is a whole different thing.

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Speaker 3: All right, well, it's good we've revisited this conversation. Then.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, now I remember you talking about lights in the

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Speaker 2: trolley and which one reaches the front, and that's all

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Speaker 2: making sense now, Okay, So you would say going back

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Speaker 2: in time is not possible, experiencing time at different speeds

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Speaker 2: might be possible, as long as that experience doesn't break

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Speaker 2: causality in any way.

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Speaker 3: Is that a fair summary.

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Speaker 1: That's a fair summary. But it's worth digging into the details,

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Speaker 1: because there actually is one place in general relativity where

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Speaker 1: time travel appears to maybe be possible, though most people

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Speaker 1: think that's just another place where general relativity breaks down,

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Speaker 1: like it does at the hearts of black holes. But

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Speaker 1: let's start with the most vanilla thing, like why can't

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Speaker 1: we just travel in time? I mean, in special relativity,

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Speaker 1: we treat time like the fourth dimension. Right, we have

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Speaker 1: three dimensions of space XYZ like forward, backwards, up, down, left, right,

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Speaker 1: and in space we can move all around It would

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Speaker 1: be ridiculous to have somebody say like, hey, you can

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Speaker 1: be at home, and then you can never be at

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Speaker 1: home again. You can't ever go back to that location.

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Speaker 1: That would be weird, right, Because in space you can

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Speaker 1: always go back to the location. It's no big deal.

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Speaker 1: And if we say time is the fourth dimension like space,

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Speaker 1: time is a four dimensional object, and we're grouping time

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Speaker 1: together with the other bits of space, it's really weird

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Speaker 1: to say, look, you can only slide forwards along this

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Speaker 1: one weird special dimension we call time, and you can

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Speaker 1: never go back, right. It's very weird to have one

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Speaker 1: dimension be different from the other ones. And so I

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Speaker 1: think it's tempting in physics even to say, like, hey,

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Speaker 1: can't we find a way around this. Can't we bend

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Speaker 1: these rules? Can we somehow slide our bed backwards along

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Speaker 1: this one dimension the way we can the other three?

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Speaker 4: Right?

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Speaker 3: That would be beautiful. I want a beautiful equation that

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Speaker 3: does that.

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Speaker 1: And it would save us so much time. But the

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Speaker 1: issue is the one you mentioned causality.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 1: We think the universe has this property where the future

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Speaker 1: is caused by the past, and that immediately makes time

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Speaker 1: different from space because space doesn't have this requirement that

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Speaker 1: like the left half of the universe causes the right

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Speaker 1: half of the universe or something that would be really strange. Again,

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Speaker 1: but this is something we see in the universe. The

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Speaker 1: information flows forwards in time, and it flows through space

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Speaker 1: at a certain speed. So, for example, anything I do

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Speaker 1: right here right now can't influence things that are happening

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Speaker 1: really far away right now, because there's no time for

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Speaker 1: that information to get there. So if I shoot a

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Speaker 1: laser at Alpha Centauri, it's some aliens. I can't kill

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Speaker 1: them right now. I have to wait until that laser,

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Speaker 1: that death ray gets to Alpha Centauri in three years,

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Speaker 1: then I can kill them. So there's only part of

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Speaker 1: the universe that I can even influence, and that part

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Speaker 1: of the universe in space time we call a light cone.

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Speaker 1: That's the region of the universe that I can influence,

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Speaker 1: and that grows with time. Right if I shoot lasers

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Speaker 1: and death rays in all directions right now, the portion

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Speaker 1: of the universe that I could kill with my deathrays

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Speaker 1: grows and grows and grows as those death rays.

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Speaker 4: Fly out away from me.

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Speaker 1: So imagine sort of a cone with a tip is me,

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Speaker 1: and the cone is expanding out into space, and causality says,

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Speaker 1: I can only influence things in that cone.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so let me see if I'm understanding. So, like say,

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Speaker 2: I'm a very boring time traveler, all right, And so

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Speaker 2: I travel back in time five minutes and I turn

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Speaker 2: the light in my office off and that's all I do,

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Speaker 2: And then I travel back to the future. Why couldn't

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Speaker 2: the light still be off when I jump forward five

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Speaker 2: minutes again?

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Speaker 1: So you go back in time and you turn off

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Speaker 1: the light, right, And so the light was on and

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Speaker 1: you turned.

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Speaker 3: It off, and then I jump back to the present.

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Speaker 1: But the you who turned the light off experienced the

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Speaker 1: light being on in the present, right, and now the

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Speaker 1: light is off in the present.

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Speaker 4: So you have a contradiction.

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Speaker 1: And does that you who thinks the light is off

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Speaker 1: still go back in time to turn the light off

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Speaker 1: when the light is already off?

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Speaker 6: All right?

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Speaker 3: So we can't even do boring things like flick light switches.

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Speaker 1: And here we're really implying causality. We're imagining Kelly is

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Speaker 1: doing things by reacting to her situation, and that she's

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Speaker 1: making decisions about the future based on the past. You're

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Speaker 1: like a little causal agent. You're like reacting to the

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Speaker 1: information you have and making decisions and influencing the future. Right,

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Speaker 1: And already we're stuck in some sort of contradictions, and

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Speaker 1: that's because we're making this assumption that the universe is causal,

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Speaker 1: that the future depends on the past only right, that

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Speaker 1: no information from the future affects the past. Because we

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Speaker 1: don't know how to make sense of that, Like we

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Speaker 1: don't know how to build a theory of physics that

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Speaker 1: involves causal loops like that. We don't know how that

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Speaker 1: would work. It leads to contradictions all that kind of stuff,

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Speaker 1: and so we assume causality in physics. It's just a

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Speaker 1: base assumption. We don't know where that comes from. We

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Speaker 1: don't know that the universe has to be causal. It

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Speaker 1: might be that the universe is not actually causal.

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Speaker 4: That this is.

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Speaker 1: Something we impose on it to make sense of it

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Speaker 1: because it's the way our brains work, and it's the

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Speaker 1: way we tell stories, and it's just sort of natural

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Speaker 1: and intuitive. It doesn't mean the universe has to read

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Speaker 1: that way. It's just hard for us to make sense

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Speaker 1: of anything else. And it's a base assumption in all

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Speaker 1: of our theories. So if causality is not required in

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Speaker 1: the universe, you got to throw everything out. So that

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Speaker 1: would be a big deal. But you know the same

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Speaker 1: way we used to assume that space was absolute and

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Speaker 1: time was absolute. Those were assumptions we made at the

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Speaker 1: bedrock of physics, and we did have to throw those

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Speaker 1: out and we did start again, and now we have

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Speaker 1: a better theory. So you know, I don't want to

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Speaker 1: say forever this is going to be the bed rock

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Speaker 1: of physics. It's just what we have right now.

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Speaker 2: So if physicists are right right now, then you could

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Speaker 2: never have any interesting space time fiction because the things

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Speaker 2: you're allowed to do are so narrow. So everyone's going

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Speaker 2: to have to break some of the rules of physics

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Speaker 2: if they're gonna bend time.

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Speaker 3: And yeah, yeah, okay, yes.

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Speaker 1: With one exception, there is one place in general relativity

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Speaker 1: where you can bend these light cones. So what happens

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Speaker 1: to your light cone as your approach, for example, a

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Speaker 1: black hole, Well, instead of your life cone just going

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Speaker 1: forward in time, it starts to bend a little bit.

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Speaker 1: It bends towards the black hole. And this is why

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Speaker 1: we say, for example, when you enter a black hole,

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Speaker 1: space and time get mixed up, and the spatial direction

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Speaker 1: is the future. Like there's only one place you can go,

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Speaker 1: and that's towards the center of the black hole. So

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Speaker 1: your light cone bends towards the center of the black hole.

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Speaker 1: That's just to give you intuition that when space gets bent,

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Speaker 1: these like cones get really really weird. People have found

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Speaker 1: arrangements of matter like weird ways you can put stuff

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Speaker 1: together which create what they call a closed timelike curve.

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Speaker 1: And this is the prediction that something would move in

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Speaker 1: a loop in time. And these arrangements of matter are weird.

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Speaker 1: They're like an infinite spinning cylinder of dust apparently creates

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Speaker 1: this situation where the light cone is bent in such

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Speaker 1: a way that something goes in a loop. And that

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Speaker 1: means that it is its own cause, right, like its

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Speaker 1: future is its past.

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Speaker 4: It's very strange.

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Speaker 3: Is this like Groundhog Day?

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Speaker 2: How is this different than groundhog Day?

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Speaker 1: Well, in groundhog Day, he remembers the other days. Right,

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Speaker 1: this would have to be some arrangement where your memories

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Speaker 1: never change, right, because it's always the same. Now, nobody

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Speaker 1: takes this seriously as a physical prediction. It's even less

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Speaker 1: seriously taken than like the prediction that there's a singularity

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Speaker 1: inside a black hole, which everybody recognizes is like, this

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Speaker 1: is probably a sign that general relativity is breaking down

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Speaker 1: and needs to be replaced with another theory of quantum

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Speaker 1: gravity that makes a more reasonable prediction. And most people

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Speaker 1: suspect that when we do have a theory of quantum gravity,

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Speaker 1: something that explains how gravity works and takes quantum mechanics

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Speaker 1: into account, it will probably fix this problem.

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Speaker 4: But today we don't know.

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Speaker 1: So you know when people say our current theory is

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Speaker 1: a physics out alot of time travel, and that's true

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Speaker 1: except for this weird closed timelike curve which nobody really

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Speaker 1: believes in, but technically is allowed according to theories of physics.

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Speaker 1: So if you are an author out there and you

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Speaker 1: want to write a really, really hard science fiction story

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Speaker 1: by time travel, you can use close timeline curves until

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Speaker 1: we come up with a theory of quantum gravity. But

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Speaker 1: until then, everybody's got to deal with some way to

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Speaker 1: handle this issue of getting information from the future and

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Speaker 1: having information cause itself.

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Speaker 3: And Daniel is available for consultation for.

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Speaker 1: A fee, no absolutely, and for free. People send me

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Speaker 1: your science fiction. I'd love to read it. And give

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Speaker 1: you tips on it.

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Speaker 2: All right, So on that note, let's introduce our first

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Speaker 2: set of authors who had a teleporter in their amazing

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Speaker 2: kids book.

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Speaker 1: So it's my great pleasure to welcome to the podcast

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Speaker 1: illustrator Mark Fearing and author and agent extraordinaire Seth Fishman.

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Speaker 1: Seth and Mark, thanks very much for joining us today.

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Speaker 5: Thanks for having us awesome, Thank you.

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Speaker 1: These two are the pair behind the new book Brandon

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Speaker 1: and the Totally Troublesome Time Machine, a kids book about

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Speaker 1: time travel. So, guys, we ask a lot of folks

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Speaker 1: on here to talk to us about the science in

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Speaker 1: their science fiction. But before we dig into the book,

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Speaker 1: we want to ask you a question that we ask

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Speaker 1: all of our authors, which is about teleporters in Star Trek.

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Speaker 1: Do you believe that teleporters actually move you from place

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Speaker 1: to place or kill you, dismantling you and recreating you

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Speaker 1: somewhere else. Are they teleporters or are they death machines?

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Speaker 7: I think they're sort of both.

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Speaker 8: I mean, I think that they do move you, take

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Speaker 8: you apart, something you die, That's my take on it.

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Speaker 8: You are fully separated and you come back together. But

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Speaker 8: I don't know why you have to throw the death

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Speaker 8: in there. It seems totally fine.

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Speaker 3: You maybe don't know Daniel very well.

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Speaker 5: This is a.

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Speaker 9: Debate I remember having back in college, and I'm pretty

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Speaker 9: sure you have to dismantle completely and rebuild from materials.

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Speaker 9: So I think there is a death involved in a

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Speaker 9: rebirth from fresh new materials at the quantum level.

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Speaker 7: Okay, I'll give you new body.

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Speaker 3: So then why don't we improve it?

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Speaker 2: Like if you're going to get a new body anyway,

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Speaker 2: why not, like, you know, always be a little bit

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Speaker 2: younger when they transport you somewhere. I think there's a

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Speaker 2: lot of opportunities that have not been explored in the

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Speaker 2: Star Trek universe.

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Speaker 8: No diseases, totally oh man, almost like they left open

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Speaker 8: a lot of holes in this theory in Star Trek.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, there's a lot of things that could be happening.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, so let's get into the topic of

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Speaker 1: your book instead of Star Trek. How did you guys

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Speaker 1: end up writing a book about time travel?

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Speaker 5: Yeah?

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Speaker 8: Well, this is my seventh picture book, and I have

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Speaker 8: discovered over time that picture book inspiration comes from my

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Speaker 8: kids usually and from me just sort of staring at

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Speaker 8: their room, you know, and seeing what's going on or

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Speaker 8: something that they say, and in general for this book,

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Speaker 8: you know, I think time travel is something that kids

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Speaker 8: think about a lot. So this came out of a

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Speaker 8: question my son asked that I don't even fully remember,

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Speaker 8: so vague like, how does time travel kind of thing

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Speaker 8: work to me? And then I went straight to my childhood.

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Speaker 8: The clear inspiration for me here was mainly Bill and

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Speaker 8: Ted's excellent adventure a little Calvin and Hobbs nice. There

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Speaker 8: is a scene that is very specific and Bill out

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Speaker 8: and Ted's where towards the end when they realize that

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Speaker 8: they can sort of communicate with themselves in the future

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Speaker 8: without even having to go into a time machine, where

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Speaker 8: Ted goes up remember the trash can and then sure

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Speaker 8: enough a trash can like falls on his dad's head.

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Speaker 7: But in order to make that.

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Speaker 8: Work, that means okay, so he has to remember, and

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Speaker 8: then a future one of him needs to set up

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Speaker 8: the trash can back in the past such that it

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Speaker 8: will release off a timer and at that very moment

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Speaker 8: fall down on his dad's head. And that is such

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Speaker 8: a powerful thing that you could just be there and say,

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Speaker 8: remember the trash remember the There was also like a

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Speaker 8: recording device and so I really thought that was just

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Speaker 8: so fascinating, and so I was puzzling that over my head.

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Speaker 7: So the book is.

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Speaker 8: Built out of the idea of what about a kid

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Speaker 8: being able to sort of call into being with the

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Speaker 8: time machine the solutions to his problems. That's where it

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Speaker 8: built for me. And then I was lucky enough to

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Speaker 8: be able to work with Mark on this process. That's

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Speaker 8: a perfect exploration of the medium via his art. So

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Speaker 8: I'm super happy about it.

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Speaker 2: When you all talk to other people, including set your kids,

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Speaker 2: about how time travel works, are you all kind of

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Speaker 2: on the same page or do you get a lot

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Speaker 2: of different people with different ideas about time travel?

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Speaker 9: I can say quickly there's a lot of debate about

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Speaker 9: time travel. Ever since I was a kid. My dad

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Speaker 9: read a lot, and I remember reading The Time Machine

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Speaker 9: as a kid and trying to figure out how this

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Speaker 9: could possibly work. And then you get older and you

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Speaker 9: come like Slaughterhouse five, you know, and you start really

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Speaker 9: thinking about space and time right travel, And so it's

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Speaker 9: a great playground. And I think Seth just has a

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Speaker 9: kid's take on it, which is not easy to do.

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Speaker 9: This is complicated stuff, and I imagine I'm looking forward

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Speaker 9: to reading it. I substitute teach primary school on occasion,

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Speaker 9: and I look forward to reading the book one day

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Speaker 9: and seeing how the kids take to it, because it's.

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Speaker 5: A big idea, that's what's so fascinating about it.

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Speaker 1: Well, do you think time travel is more complex for

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Speaker 1: kids to understand or for adults? It's sort of mind

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Speaker 1: bending and counterintuitive? But is that easier for kids who

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Speaker 1: haven't like learned all the details of causality and physics

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Speaker 1: so they don't have the objections? Does it make more

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Speaker 1: sense to a kid's mind or to an adults?

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Speaker 4: What do you think?

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Speaker 8: I think that's exactly right, that it's easier because they

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Speaker 8: don't have those what if moments or how about this

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Speaker 8: moments at the same time. Isn't that like what these

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Speaker 8: books are about, is like basically grabbing those moments when

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Speaker 8: you're in high school.

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Speaker 7: Thing like Grandfather Paradogs, and like, how do we do that?

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Speaker 8: So there's a page in this book that also everything

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Speaker 8: came out of this one joke that I started. So

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Speaker 8: it's this page where past and future the main character's

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Speaker 8: name is Brandon, are fighting each other and he decides

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Speaker 8: that past brand is going to teach future Brandon a lesson.

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Speaker 7: So before he goes to bed, he sets up a

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Speaker 7: pie trap.

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Speaker 8: And then the way I wrote it, it's just literally

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00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:57,760
Speaker 8: impossible to actually illustrate this way, which is what.

445
00:20:57,680 --> 00:20:59,240
Speaker 7: Mark had the challenge is doing. And that's why I

446
00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:00,840
Speaker 7: want to ask you this question was like how did

447
00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:01,720
Speaker 7: you approach this?

448
00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:04,719
Speaker 8: But the idea that I puzzled with is putting a

449
00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:07,680
Speaker 8: pie He puts his pie trap, and then he gets

450
00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:10,000
Speaker 8: into bed himself and he goes to sleep, and when

451
00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:12,080
Speaker 8: he wakes up, that pie trap hits him in the face,

452
00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:15,240
Speaker 8: so it's actually hitting future Brandon, but it's very much him.

453
00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:18,600
Speaker 8: But future Brandon's like, ah, past Brandon, but he set

454
00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:21,000
Speaker 8: it up, so it's his fault. And I wrote that

455
00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:23,639
Speaker 8: in and every edit for the first like five rounds

456
00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:25,400
Speaker 8: were like it's too confusing, and I was like, this

457
00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:27,280
Speaker 8: is the reason why I wrote this book.

458
00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:28,240
Speaker 7: It's going to be in there.

459
00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:30,879
Speaker 8: And Mark's like he's shaking his head right now because

460
00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:32,800
Speaker 8: it's like so hard to do. So Mark, tell me,

461
00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:35,399
Speaker 8: like when you got here, like how did you get around?

462
00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:36,440
Speaker 7: How did you figure it out?

463
00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:36,800
Speaker 10: You know?

464
00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:38,080
Speaker 5: In picture books are interesting.

465
00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:40,199
Speaker 9: I've done about thirty of them now, and because of

466
00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:42,520
Speaker 9: the media age we live in. A lot of authors

467
00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:46,399
Speaker 9: tend to think in more animated terms, like jokes developing

468
00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:48,239
Speaker 9: through time, and of course in a book, you are

469
00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:51,119
Speaker 9: locked to a single image on a page. Those are

470
00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:54,720
Speaker 9: difficult things to try to communicate, and I think a

471
00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:56,560
Speaker 9: lot of it has to do with the style and

472
00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:58,879
Speaker 9: sort of the tone that you bring to it and

473
00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:03,040
Speaker 9: allowing read to bring their own meaning to it as

474
00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:05,080
Speaker 9: they look at it, and they kind of fill in

475
00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:07,960
Speaker 9: the frames like in a storyboard, I think, But those

476
00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:09,119
Speaker 9: are difficult issues.

477
00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:11,960
Speaker 5: There's a lot of very funny ideas.

478
00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:13,920
Speaker 9: I'm working out a new book right now, and it's

479
00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:16,600
Speaker 9: like they were totally inspired by The Simpsons because they

480
00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:19,800
Speaker 9: want these cutaways to things which don't work as well

481
00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:22,480
Speaker 9: in a picture book as they do in Family Guy

482
00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:25,000
Speaker 9: or The Simpsons. So there's always a little bit of

483
00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:27,520
Speaker 9: stress I think on that, and even in my own work,

484
00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:29,800
Speaker 9: I write. So you just approach it and hope you

485
00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:33,440
Speaker 9: can find the right tone and let the reader bring

486
00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:36,560
Speaker 9: as much as possible in their mind to what's happening

487
00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:37,280
Speaker 9: in between.

488
00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:40,040
Speaker 8: That's like a form of time travel itself, because you're

489
00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:42,440
Speaker 8: filling in the gaps between each panel, right.

490
00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:44,520
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean it's narrative. Art is great at that.

491
00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:46,480
Speaker 9: That's what we're asking you to do is fill in

492
00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:48,680
Speaker 9: those panels, and if you can find the right way

493
00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:50,879
Speaker 9: to do that, you bring motion to the reader.

494
00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:52,680
Speaker 1: If I can fill up on that mark, I'd love

495
00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:55,760
Speaker 1: to hear about how you made your illustration choices. When

496
00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:58,359
Speaker 1: I was reading it, I was actually thinking Confidant Hobbes,

497
00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:02,040
Speaker 1: the Transmographier box and all that stuff. Did you have

498
00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:04,160
Speaker 1: a conversation with Seth about what was in his mind?

499
00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:06,680
Speaker 1: Did this come just from your reading of the text?

500
00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:07,520
Speaker 1: How does that all work?

501
00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:10,359
Speaker 5: In picture books you tend never to speak to the author.

502
00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:12,600
Speaker 9: In fact, it's kind of nice that Seth and I

503
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:14,639
Speaker 9: have been able to discuss this stuff and work together,

504
00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:17,240
Speaker 9: because there's many books I've done that I've never talked

505
00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:18,080
Speaker 9: to an author.

506
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:18,280
Speaker 5: Of at all.

507
00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:19,600
Speaker 1: Why what?

508
00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:20,240
Speaker 4: Why not?

509
00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:24,800
Speaker 9: Publishers are looking to combine a author's point of view

510
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:27,800
Speaker 9: and an artist's point of view to create something sort

511
00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:29,280
Speaker 9: of greater than either of them.

512
00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:31,399
Speaker 5: If Seth is an agent, you would know how to

513
00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:32,280
Speaker 5: describe this better.

514
00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:34,120
Speaker 7: Oh, I hate it. I think it's absurd.

515
00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:36,479
Speaker 8: I think it's probably more built out of protectionism by

516
00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:40,080
Speaker 8: a publisher of like whoever might be the bigger name person.

517
00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:42,760
Speaker 8: If I'm really honest, the idea that there's not even

518
00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:45,439
Speaker 8: like a form that I should fill out to like

519
00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:49,240
Speaker 8: give some benchmarks. It's basically just the script an author

520
00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:52,399
Speaker 8: can write in art direction and then it's totally up

521
00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:54,000
Speaker 8: for the artists to do whatever they want with it,

522
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:56,400
Speaker 8: which is totally fine. But you know, I reached out

523
00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:59,199
Speaker 8: to Mark because I wanted to say thank you.

524
00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:00,000
Speaker 7: It was looking great.

525
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:02,120
Speaker 8: I usually like to wait for them to get their

526
00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:04,159
Speaker 8: stamp on it, so that the stamp is in and

527
00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:06,080
Speaker 8: then there's a conversation in my mind. I don't want

528
00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:07,760
Speaker 8: to like it in there too early, but I find

529
00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:08,240
Speaker 8: it crazy.

530
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:10,320
Speaker 9: It's a weird way, and I think finding the right

531
00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:12,879
Speaker 9: tone I illustrate in a couple different ways. I'm not

532
00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:16,840
Speaker 9: a one style. I wanted to find that cartoony that's fun,

533
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:18,399
Speaker 9: that's frivolous.

534
00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:18,480
Speaker 5: That I think.

535
00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:20,919
Speaker 9: One of the reviews called it retro, which bothered me

536
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:22,960
Speaker 9: for a week. I had to call my agent and say,

537
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:23,639
Speaker 9: am I retro?

538
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:23,960
Speaker 11: Now?

539
00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:28,480
Speaker 5: Is this my career over? But I wanted that looseness.

540
00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:33,000
Speaker 9: I wanted that sort of New Yorker style cartoon looseness

541
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:35,000
Speaker 9: to it. I didn't want it to be batten down

542
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:37,640
Speaker 9: and painted. So those are all just sort of art

543
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:40,439
Speaker 9: directions things that you come up with when you're working

544
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:40,679
Speaker 9: on it.

545
00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:43,000
Speaker 5: And Seth was happy with it, which is great.

546
00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:45,399
Speaker 9: I'm glad And it was a lot of fun to

547
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:48,760
Speaker 9: draw and be silly with it and creating the time

548
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:52,200
Speaker 9: machine in any way you know I wanted and being inspired.

549
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:53,280
Speaker 7: I loved your time Machine.

550
00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:55,080
Speaker 5: Thanks. Yeah, it's a tone thing with art.

551
00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:57,919
Speaker 2: Love with the Christmas lights and the shower curtain and

552
00:24:57,960 --> 00:24:59,679
Speaker 2: it's like you can really imagine that a kid had

553
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:02,040
Speaker 2: a ton fun in there, and they were like little

554
00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:05,119
Speaker 2: reading books in there. Also, in between traveling through time.

555
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:07,639
Speaker 5: It's a fort. Kelvin Hobbs really makes that clear.

556
00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:10,320
Speaker 9: It's an adventure, it's a fort, it's an escape, and

557
00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:12,360
Speaker 9: that's kind of what a time machine is in a way.

558
00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:15,280
Speaker 3: So how much research goes into scenes.

559
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:17,200
Speaker 2: Like when he goes back in time to visit the dinosaurs.

560
00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:19,200
Speaker 2: Did you have to do like a bunch of research

561
00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:21,800
Speaker 2: on the current state of what we think dinosaurs looked

562
00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:23,399
Speaker 2: like or was it more like you had a picture

563
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:24,880
Speaker 2: in your mind and that's what you went with.

564
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:29,000
Speaker 9: Yeah, some books demand a more encyclopedic approach if you

565
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:32,359
Speaker 9: are creating something, I wanted it to be more fun

566
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:35,199
Speaker 9: and a little more fantastic. And I do keep up

567
00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:37,320
Speaker 9: on my palaeontology and archaeology.

568
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:37,879
Speaker 5: I'm a geek.

569
00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:42,320
Speaker 9: I love watching the newest discoveries, you know, so I

570
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:45,439
Speaker 9: try to create something that sort of looks like you

571
00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:48,600
Speaker 9: might imagine it more than being encyclopedic.

572
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:50,080
Speaker 7: With don't sell yourself short.

573
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:52,120
Speaker 8: For those of you who know I write nonfiction books too,

574
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:55,480
Speaker 8: those have a much higher level of you have fact checkers,

575
00:25:56,040 --> 00:26:00,800
Speaker 8: reviews will rag on you if you say something that's metaphorical,

576
00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:03,800
Speaker 8: you know, like you're in trouble here though there's a

577
00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:05,440
Speaker 8: specific run of scenes, which is.

578
00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:07,400
Speaker 7: What Mark was referring to. With dinosaurs.

579
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:11,040
Speaker 8: I gave sample art pieces or like links to places

580
00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:13,360
Speaker 8: showing what I thought with each one, I mean, where

581
00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:14,520
Speaker 8: they are from the science base.

582
00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:16,400
Speaker 7: All I wanted was feathers on the dinosaur.

583
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:18,520
Speaker 8: Like that's really what I cared about, right, because I

584
00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:21,000
Speaker 8: think that the idea if you ever see a dinosaur without.

585
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:23,199
Speaker 7: Feather on it. Now, most dinosaurs, I'm like, what are

586
00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:23,560
Speaker 7: we doing?

587
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:25,800
Speaker 8: Like we're teaching our kids poorly, right, And then we

588
00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:27,560
Speaker 8: had other ones like the Colossus of Rhodes.

589
00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:28,640
Speaker 7: We went back and forth.

590
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:30,520
Speaker 8: We had to do research because I always thought the

591
00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:33,359
Speaker 8: Colossus of Rhodes was straddling the harbor and the boats

592
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:36,960
Speaker 8: went under. But after some research, it seems like, whow

593
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:40,040
Speaker 8: we don't one hundred percent know. Most suggest that he'd

594
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:42,560
Speaker 8: be standing to one side. So we actually did do

595
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:44,320
Speaker 8: real research to try and play that in there. And

596
00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:46,840
Speaker 8: sometimes it's me and the author, sometimes the artists, and

597
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:49,439
Speaker 8: sometimes actually a copy editor sneaks in there and is like,

598
00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:51,600
Speaker 8: here's some stuff you didn't know. But so we did

599
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:52,439
Speaker 8: go back and forth.

600
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:53,040
Speaker 5: For sure.

601
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:57,160
Speaker 8: I was always curious about your portrayal Alexander Hamilton, because

602
00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:00,479
Speaker 8: you know, now he's such an iconic figure, but it's

603
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:02,600
Speaker 8: also like lin Minwelm Morando, which is not what he

604
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:05,359
Speaker 8: looks like, of course, so I was like, oh, you know,

605
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:07,800
Speaker 8: in my head, it's all these different thoughts there.

606
00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:09,159
Speaker 5: I try to look stuff up.

607
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:11,919
Speaker 9: Definitely, the Colossal Roads is interesting because I was an

608
00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:14,800
Speaker 9: ancient art history major in undergrad What path haven't they

609
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:17,760
Speaker 9: gone down? So that stuff is fascinating to me, And

610
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:19,880
Speaker 9: there is a lot of debate there. It is still

611
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:24,480
Speaker 9: very much debatable about exactly what that was. There's contradictory information,

612
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:27,280
Speaker 9: and of course I'll take a shortcut to what's most

613
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:30,120
Speaker 9: visually interesting. At a certain point, I'm like, I don't care.

614
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:31,919
Speaker 9: This is a lot of fun to draw if we

615
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:34,480
Speaker 9: do this. So there's some back and forth where I

616
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:38,240
Speaker 9: would rather push it to be interesting visually than maybe

617
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:39,520
Speaker 9: what was actually constructed.

618
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:41,040
Speaker 5: But yeah, we did have some notes on that.

619
00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:43,440
Speaker 9: But it's certainly not like a book where you're doing

620
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:46,199
Speaker 9: history of New York architecture or something where you're going

621
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:47,800
Speaker 9: to have people who are like, those are not the

622
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:50,720
Speaker 9: right size bricks and seventeen twenty they only you know.

623
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:52,919
Speaker 9: But it was fun, you know, kept it fun, and

624
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:55,119
Speaker 9: I appreciated the notes, that's right, I remember. And we

625
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:58,159
Speaker 9: did debate about the colossal roads. I remember looking that

626
00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:00,719
Speaker 9: up myself in a couple of books online.

627
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:02,760
Speaker 1: Well, that really touches for me one of the exciting

628
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:05,479
Speaker 1: things about the possibility of time travel, because there are

629
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:08,440
Speaker 1: so many big questions about the universe whose answers are

630
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:10,879
Speaker 1: just facts, facts that are lost to history. You know,

631
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:13,240
Speaker 1: what did the dinosaurs look like? How did the universe begin?

632
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:15,760
Speaker 1: How did humans evolve? All these things we could just

633
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:17,760
Speaker 1: know the answers too. If we could just go back

634
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:22,119
Speaker 1: and watch, it'd be fascinating. So it's so tantalizing to

635
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:25,080
Speaker 1: imagine that you could actually get these answers. It really

636
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:26,280
Speaker 1: tickles that bone from me.

637
00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:28,359
Speaker 2: So I feel like that's a great place to ask

638
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:30,920
Speaker 2: a final question, which is, if you could go back

639
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:34,440
Speaker 2: in time to anywhere, what would you go back and see.

640
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:37,280
Speaker 8: I'm going to take sort of the easy answer that's

641
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:40,600
Speaker 8: not checking anything in my own history, which I wanted

642
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:41,520
Speaker 8: my character to explore.

643
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:43,040
Speaker 7: But like you said, you're ancient art.

644
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:47,080
Speaker 8: I was an ancient Rome history major, and I've always

645
00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:50,000
Speaker 8: wanted to see Rome at the height and get the

646
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:52,240
Speaker 8: walk around and see what that's like. So I'd probably

647
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:54,760
Speaker 8: wander through there and then you know, find out those

648
00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:57,200
Speaker 8: answers and then tell the historians, and then tell them

649
00:28:57,200 --> 00:28:59,959
Speaker 8: what their methods were wrong, and then what the revise everything?

650
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 7: You know, That's what I want. No, I just want

651
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 7: to go together at it.

652
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:03,840
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm very close.

653
00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 9: I think just hearing the Latin that was spoken, you know,

654
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:09,240
Speaker 9: what was being spoken in the streets of Rome in

655
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:12,680
Speaker 9: one hundred AD or fifty BC, would be fascinating because

656
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:13,800
Speaker 9: we have so many questions.

657
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:15,520
Speaker 5: I think I'd be tempted to go.

658
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:18,880
Speaker 9: Alexander the Great would be a real pull to see

659
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:20,400
Speaker 9: what exactly.

660
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 5: Was going on, What was that? What was he?

661
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:26,360
Speaker 9: I'm always partial to Athens about for eighty BC or something.

662
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:28,160
Speaker 5: I'd love to see what was shaken.

663
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:30,840
Speaker 7: Mark looks like we have to do like a history

664
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:31,360
Speaker 7: book together.

665
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:35,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, we don't know where Alexander the Great ended up

666
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:37,400
Speaker 2: being buried, right, we do not.

667
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:39,040
Speaker 3: You could figure that out.

668
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:41,040
Speaker 5: That way if we could go to the end of it.

669
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:42,520
Speaker 5: We don't really know how he died.

670
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:44,800
Speaker 9: We don't know the mood of That's why I don't

671
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 9: think time travel could exist, because what we have seen

672
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:51,240
Speaker 9: some people poking around these places by now in there.

673
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 5: But I think Seth and.

674
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:54,640
Speaker 9: I are a lot closer than Yeah, I imagine, but

675
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 9: that would be fascinating. Or to see Caesar and try

676
00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:00,920
Speaker 9: to understand what was going on there, Oh, fascinating, fascinating?

677
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 4: All right, thanks everybody.

678
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:04,600
Speaker 1: So the book is called Brandon and the Totally Troublesome

679
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:07,160
Speaker 1: Time Machine. It's a picture book for kids, but it

680
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:09,360
Speaker 1: touches on the kid inside all of us who wants

681
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 1: to go back in time and get the answers to

682
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:13,600
Speaker 1: all of these deep questions. Seth and Mark, thanks very

683
00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 1: much for coming and talking to us.

684
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:16,280
Speaker 5: You're welcome, Thank you for having us on.

685
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:32,080
Speaker 11: Its for so fun guys.

686
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:36,600
Speaker 1: So it's my great pleasure to welcome to the podcast.

687
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:40,360
Speaker 1: My old friend Brad King. He runs a video gaming company.

688
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:43,600
Speaker 1: He writes science fiction, and he went to Los Alamos

689
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:45,880
Speaker 1: Middle School and high school with me. Brad Ley, So

690
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:46,760
Speaker 1: nice to see you again.

691
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:49,760
Speaker 10: It's so nice to see you, Daniel. I appreciate em

692
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:53,400
Speaker 10: sciting the word old there. I want to say, I'm

693
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:55,680
Speaker 10: very excited to see you again, and I'm excited to

694
00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:57,760
Speaker 10: meet Kelly. Daniel was like a really he was in

695
00:30:57,800 --> 00:30:59,720
Speaker 10: speech and debate. That's really where I think we got

696
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:02,240
Speaker 10: to know each other. And Daniel was, you're ahead of me,

697
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 10: and I think really kind of a funny, wise grounding

698
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:09,720
Speaker 10: force in an otherwise kind of chaotic motley crew, you

699
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:12,520
Speaker 10: know of like very intelligent people but a little manic.

700
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:15,200
Speaker 10: So yeah, it's great to interact with you as an adult.

701
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:18,320
Speaker 3: Also, I didn't know you did speech and debate.

702
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 1: Oh yes, absolutely, extemporaneous baloney and Lincoln Douglas's debate.

703
00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:23,920
Speaker 4: It was a lot of fun.

704
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:25,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that brought you here.

705
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:27,920
Speaker 4: Dot here we are exactly.

706
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:31,440
Speaker 1: So before we talk about your exciting movie, we have

707
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:33,720
Speaker 1: a question that we ask all science fiction writers to

708
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:37,280
Speaker 1: sort of put them on the spectrum. In your opinion,

709
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 1: what does a teleporter do in Star Trek? Does it

710
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:43,480
Speaker 1: actually move your atoms from here to there? Or does

711
00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 1: it disassemble you and we build you somewhere else? Is

712
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:48,320
Speaker 1: it a murder machine?

713
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:53,200
Speaker 10: This question? This is very contentious. I'm sure you're aware. Yeah,

714
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:55,200
Speaker 10: I'll answer it. But there's also an aspect of it

715
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:57,560
Speaker 10: that I feel like is more contentious that I usually

716
00:31:57,560 --> 00:31:59,480
Speaker 10: get into. But I mean, I can't get the head

717
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:02,400
Speaker 10: of the writers exactly. I'm an optimist and I like

718
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:06,080
Speaker 10: the idea that they are actually being transported. However, I

719
00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:08,160
Speaker 10: recognize that I think it's probably more likely that they're

720
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:11,400
Speaker 10: being disassembled and then just recreated. And when I get

721
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:15,120
Speaker 10: into this with scientist friends especially, there's one in particular

722
00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:19,160
Speaker 10: who he says, it doesn't matter because even if you're

723
00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:21,720
Speaker 10: murdered the fact that the copy of you is the

724
00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 10: exact same and moves forward for all intents and purposes,

725
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 10: that means you live on. Of course my point of

726
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:31,520
Speaker 10: view as well, but the me prior to telportation is dead,

727
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:34,200
Speaker 10: like my story has completed and now there's a news story,

728
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:37,040
Speaker 10: and he'll argue very well that my point of view

729
00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:39,400
Speaker 10: is invalid and that you know, it doesn't matter whether

730
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:41,120
Speaker 10: you get dissembled or not, it's the same.

731
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:44,200
Speaker 1: So does that mean you wouldn't step into a teleporter?

732
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:44,840
Speaker 1: But he would.

733
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:47,480
Speaker 10: I'm like a cat. I'm so curious. I would get in,

734
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:48,200
Speaker 10: you know, like I.

735
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:56,240
Speaker 6: Really yeah, I mean I assume hopefully that afterwards, whatever happened,

736
00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:58,480
Speaker 6: I would either be blissfully unaware that I had been

737
00:32:58,560 --> 00:32:59,920
Speaker 6: murdered or get to continue.

738
00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:02,640
Speaker 2: So I hope the murder was quick and painless. Yeah,

739
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:04,240
Speaker 2: then who cares what happens after that?

740
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:06,280
Speaker 10: That's the hope. But if you guys figure something out

741
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:08,480
Speaker 10: otherwise in your field, please let me know before I.

742
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:10,600
Speaker 1: Get we'll call you up to be a guinea pig

743
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:12,560
Speaker 1: on our next experiment. Since you're so optimistic.

744
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:17,800
Speaker 2: Great, since you are totally willing to jump into these

745
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:21,280
Speaker 2: sci fi sort of pieces of technology. Were you always

746
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:23,520
Speaker 2: into sci fi or what got you into science fiction

747
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:24,360
Speaker 2: and movies?

748
00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:24,800
Speaker 1: Oh?

749
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:26,480
Speaker 10: Thank you, that's a great question. You know, I grew

750
00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:28,280
Speaker 10: up on Star Wars. I think, like a lot of

751
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:31,240
Speaker 10: us in that era, and I also was really into

752
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:33,960
Speaker 10: fantasy and play dungeons and dragons and you know all that.

753
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:36,800
Speaker 10: I think growing up in Los Alamos, of course I

754
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:38,520
Speaker 10: was around a lot of science, and I was hyper

755
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:41,680
Speaker 10: aware of science as a thing. I also recognized early

756
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:43,680
Speaker 10: on that I probably wasn't going to go into science.

757
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:45,800
Speaker 10: I just don't think I had the dedication, you know,

758
00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:49,480
Speaker 10: or interest. And I really admired, you know, all the

759
00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:51,960
Speaker 10: scientists and all the smart people around, and so it's

760
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:55,120
Speaker 10: very possible that that, you know, combined with my formative

761
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:58,520
Speaker 10: entertainment youth, sort of tilted me in the direction of

762
00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:00,880
Speaker 10: science fiction. So I think, yeah, yeah, post high school,

763
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:03,080
Speaker 10: I was constantly sort of going back to science fiction

764
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:03,760
Speaker 10: as a genre.

765
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:06,440
Speaker 1: And so, what's the first piece of science fiction writing

766
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:06,840
Speaker 1: that you did?

767
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:09,919
Speaker 10: Oh my gosh, that's really hard. I have the first

768
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:13,440
Speaker 10: piece of fantasy writing I did because engaged in elementary school.

769
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:15,319
Speaker 10: They made us print a book, so I.

770
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:16,280
Speaker 4: Have that on the shelf.

771
00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:18,920
Speaker 10: But sci fi, I'm not sure I have a fun

772
00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:20,520
Speaker 10: answer to that. You know, I just started writing a

773
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:22,480
Speaker 10: little short stories, I remember in college.

774
00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:24,839
Speaker 1: So then tell us how you decided to write a

775
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 1: movie with sort of time travel and you know, seeing

776
00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:30,400
Speaker 1: the future. This sint of aspects you sent me before

777
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:33,480
Speaker 1: we talked. This incredible spreadsheet you put together where you like,

778
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:36,839
Speaker 1: broke down the time travel motivations and mechanisms and all

779
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:38,920
Speaker 1: sorts of movies. You must have thought about this deeply

780
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:39,960
Speaker 1: before you got into it.

781
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:42,799
Speaker 10: I break down a lot of movies. I'm very interested in,

782
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:46,200
Speaker 10: sort of borderline obsessed with the patterns in storytelling, and

783
00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:49,160
Speaker 10: so I will watch movies and I have a constantly

784
00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:51,560
Speaker 10: shifting sort of template. We're all, you know, feed in

785
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:54,920
Speaker 10: all of the information, and I don't think it's it's

786
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:58,520
Speaker 10: useful of a guide for creating stories, but more maybe

787
00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:01,839
Speaker 10: as a reflective or diagnostic tool afterwards or after an

788
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:03,400
Speaker 10: outline is say eh, you know, am I sort of

789
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:06,080
Speaker 10: in line with the satisfying entertainment? But I also want

790
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:07,920
Speaker 10: to ask for if there's a lot of soft data

791
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:09,960
Speaker 10: in that table. You know, a lot of it is conjecture,

792
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:12,320
Speaker 10: like you can say, oh, well, most sciences flyfi movies

793
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:14,680
Speaker 10: either look to the past or look to the future,

794
00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:16,600
Speaker 10: but a lot of them do both, you know. Or

795
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:18,800
Speaker 10: they look to the past, but because the character's goals

796
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:22,120
Speaker 10: are to correct an impending disaster, they're also looking forward,

797
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:23,799
Speaker 10: so take all of it with the grain of salt.

798
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:24,320
Speaker 4: Obviously.

799
00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:26,840
Speaker 2: I had a similar spreadsheet for zombie movies for a

800
00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:29,400
Speaker 2: project I was working on once, and I actually found

801
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:32,239
Speaker 2: I enjoyed the movies more because I was thinking about

802
00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:34,719
Speaker 2: them on like multiple levels and how they connected. Did

803
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:37,400
Speaker 2: it increase your joy or decrease your joy to be

804
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:39,960
Speaker 2: like filling in boxes as you were watching stuff?

805
00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:40,640
Speaker 11: Yeah? Absolutely.

806
00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:42,000
Speaker 10: I mean the first time I watch something, I try

807
00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:43,880
Speaker 10: to just enjoy it, like I don't do this on

808
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:47,160
Speaker 10: first viewing, But yes, I think it enhances my enjoyment.

809
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:50,399
Speaker 10: And I think the discovery process of patterns again, it's

810
00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:51,880
Speaker 10: like a drug to me. You know, when I observe

811
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:54,480
Speaker 10: a pattern, I get really excited. And so especially with

812
00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:56,880
Speaker 10: time travel movies, which can be pretty complicated. You know,

813
00:35:57,160 --> 00:35:59,960
Speaker 10: Primer is a really great example where the infinite sort

814
00:35:59,960 --> 00:36:02,719
Speaker 10: of time bloopage, the diagrams they have online are really

815
00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:03,640
Speaker 10: interesting to look at.

816
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:06,480
Speaker 1: And so how did you land on this particular sort

817
00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:10,080
Speaker 1: of mechanism for your movie? This information from the future,

818
00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:13,560
Speaker 1: these questions about can you avoid what you see happening

819
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:16,520
Speaker 1: in the future? What about those themes opens up news

820
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:18,480
Speaker 1: stories for you? Or what story that you wanted to

821
00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:21,319
Speaker 1: tell with those sort of topics and mechanisms.

822
00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:23,759
Speaker 10: I have a lot of anxiety, a lot of it

823
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 10: focused on future. And I also was undiagnosed with ADHD

824
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:29,240
Speaker 10: for a very long time, so I have time blindness.

825
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:29,320
Speaker 7: You know.

826
00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:31,399
Speaker 10: There's a lot of things around time that I think

827
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:35,400
Speaker 10: have sort of plagued me unconsciously, and sometimes I was

828
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:38,440
Speaker 10: working out through my art. But I would say I

829
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:42,719
Speaker 10: can't take credit for the initial idea. My co writer

830
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:45,880
Speaker 10: and producer BP Cooper, we were just sort of obsessing

831
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:48,880
Speaker 10: about my favorite time travel movie at the time, Time Crimes,

832
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:50,600
Speaker 10: which I don't know if you guys have seen that,

833
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:54,600
Speaker 10: it's amazing, you should see it. Yeah, incredible. And he

834
00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:56,480
Speaker 10: had seen a movie called Timeline where I think they

835
00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:58,520
Speaker 10: sent a camera back into the past to take a

836
00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:02,239
Speaker 10: picture of the stars to ascertain the year that they

837
00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:04,839
Speaker 10: were able to send something back at and he just said,

838
00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:06,520
Speaker 10: you know, off the cuffe He's like, oh, what about

839
00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:06,960
Speaker 10: a camera that.

840
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:07,960
Speaker 4: Takes picture of the future.

841
00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:10,719
Speaker 10: And for some reason, my brain, you know, locked onto that,

842
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:12,399
Speaker 10: and I went away for a weekend and to sort

843
00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:14,680
Speaker 10: of roughly outlined the whole movie, you know, and then

844
00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:16,399
Speaker 10: came back in for the next two weeks we worked

845
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:19,120
Speaker 10: on it, but I struggle with anxiety about the future,

846
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:21,600
Speaker 10: and I also as an artist and constantly struggling with

847
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:25,439
Speaker 10: inspiration and wanting to, you know, somehow get ahead of

848
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 10: the difficulty of not understanding where a piece of art

849
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:31,279
Speaker 10: work or a story is going to go. Even though

850
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:33,880
Speaker 10: that is you know, the satisfying part is the discovery

851
00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:36,439
Speaker 10: and the you know, solving the puzzles, but it also

852
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:39,000
Speaker 10: carries a lot of emotional challenges along with it. So

853
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:41,160
Speaker 10: the idea of being able to see art ahead of

854
00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:43,200
Speaker 10: time sounds you know, amazing to me.

855
00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:46,680
Speaker 1: But in your movie, it doesn't exactly give them confidence

856
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:49,360
Speaker 1: or let them relax, or to causes tension in the movie.

857
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:52,000
Speaker 10: Yes, right, well, you know, I mean, it's cinema and

858
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:53,480
Speaker 10: it's a story, so we have to create as much

859
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:57,239
Speaker 10: conflict as possible. But I think all the themes that

860
00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:01,360
Speaker 10: can be explored via time travel are very uh, hurtful

861
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:03,279
Speaker 10: and exciting. Yeah, it trolls me.

862
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:05,680
Speaker 1: So what are the challenges of writing a movie like

863
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:07,799
Speaker 1: this where the rules are a little bit fuzzy, where

864
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:10,880
Speaker 1: you get to basically make up the rules yourself instead

865
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:12,759
Speaker 1: of just like you know, a movie that happens in

866
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:14,960
Speaker 1: our universe according to our laws of physics, where you're

867
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:16,439
Speaker 1: already bound by rules.

868
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:17,520
Speaker 4: Everybody understands.

869
00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:20,560
Speaker 10: That's a great question. I was a little nervous about

870
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:23,240
Speaker 10: getting on this podcast because I have friends who are into,

871
00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:25,799
Speaker 10: you know, hard science fiction, right, so yeah, A day

872
00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:27,919
Speaker 10: behind heard science fiction is that all the science is real,

873
00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:30,239
Speaker 10: and if it's set in the future, that it's at

874
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:32,680
Speaker 10: least not violating any of the known laws of science

875
00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:36,320
Speaker 10: right now. And I'm very obviously more of a soft

876
00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:39,160
Speaker 10: science fiction writer. I almost treat it like fantasy. And

877
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:41,120
Speaker 10: I've had people say, well, why don't you just write fantasy?

878
00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:43,160
Speaker 10: Then you know why, I guess a general argument like

879
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:46,640
Speaker 10: why does soft sci fi even exist? But I don't know.

880
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:49,480
Speaker 10: I guess I do like fantasy also. But the rule

881
00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:51,360
Speaker 10: I try to set for myself to really address your

882
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:54,319
Speaker 10: question is if I need science to do something that

883
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:58,160
Speaker 10: it can't currently, I try not to take an element

884
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:00,120
Speaker 10: from the periodic table and make it do something that

885
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:02,719
Speaker 10: we know it can't do. I would rather invent a

886
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:04,680
Speaker 10: new element. I just don't have a bunch of people

887
00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:06,360
Speaker 10: from Los Almos eye rolling. You know.

888
00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:11,799
Speaker 2: I love soft sci fi, and I feel like as

889
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:13,840
Speaker 2: long as you create a world and then you're consistent

890
00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:16,279
Speaker 2: with the rules that you've created for that world. I'm

891
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 2: just there to have fun. I'm not there to fact check.

892
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:19,480
Speaker 2: That's my personal philosophy.

893
00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:22,920
Speaker 10: Kelly. I appreciate your support, and even.

894
00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:26,040
Speaker 1: As particle physicists, we can enjoy soft science fiction. Also,

895
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:28,200
Speaker 1: just because I grew up in los Almost doesn't mean

896
00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:31,520
Speaker 1: I roll my eyes when something weird happens in a movie.

897
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:33,920
Speaker 10: Oh. So much support here, so much solidarity.

898
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:34,840
Speaker 4: I really appreciate it.

899
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:37,040
Speaker 1: Hey, it's a positive vibe kind of podcast. We weren't

900
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:39,040
Speaker 1: going to ask you on the podcast and then, you know,

901
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:41,880
Speaker 1: quiz you on general relativity or anything.

902
00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:44,879
Speaker 3: Oh gosh, all right, I would fail if we did that.

903
00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:48,359
Speaker 3: Do you enjoy other time travel movies? So you've made

904
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:50,560
Speaker 3: that spreadsheet, so you've clearly watched a lot of them.

905
00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:52,960
Speaker 2: Do you have like pet peeves for things that people

906
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:55,120
Speaker 2: do in time travel movies or things you really like?

907
00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:55,680
Speaker 5: Yes?

908
00:39:56,040 --> 00:39:58,560
Speaker 10: I should clarify this. Documents very hastily thrown together. I

909
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:01,520
Speaker 10: actually have hundreds of movie downs, and I meant to

910
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:02,960
Speaker 10: tackle this earlier in the week and give you guys

911
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:03,880
Speaker 10: something really comprehensive.

912
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:04,759
Speaker 4: I just did not have time.

913
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:07,120
Speaker 10: So this was me very hastily this morning, be like, oh,

914
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:08,080
Speaker 10: what can I get them?

915
00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:10,000
Speaker 1: You just go into your time machine and go back

916
00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:10,800
Speaker 1: and do it and then come.

917
00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:14,080
Speaker 4: Back exactly extely. Yeah.

918
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:16,319
Speaker 10: I think, you know, depending on what's going on with me,

919
00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:19,319
Speaker 10: I can either be more filled with regret or more

920
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:22,959
Speaker 10: obsessed with the future. And so that might color which

921
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:26,160
Speaker 10: time travel movies I'm you know, more interested in, you know,

922
00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:29,719
Speaker 10: time loops I think are really fascinating. I'm interested in

923
00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:34,479
Speaker 10: explore you know, so many time travel movies. Again it's like, oh,

924
00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:36,520
Speaker 10: is it regretted with the past or are we looking

925
00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:38,719
Speaker 10: at the future, And inevitably it brings the characters back

926
00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:42,799
Speaker 10: ideally to this state of being more present in the

927
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:46,000
Speaker 10: moment and sort of you know, having acceptance basically, like

928
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:48,840
Speaker 10: that's correcting their false philosophy. But I think something that

929
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:52,000
Speaker 10: hasn't been explored that much in time travel is using

930
00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:56,040
Speaker 10: time loops to explore the problem of confirmation bias, which

931
00:40:56,280 --> 00:40:58,719
Speaker 10: seems like a really big problem, you know, our growing

932
00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:01,239
Speaker 10: problem our society, right getting these echo chambers and they

933
00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:03,680
Speaker 10: get obsessed, you know, they sort of form these like

934
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:07,000
Speaker 10: neural grooves, and I think I try to touch on

935
00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:07,680
Speaker 10: that a little.

936
00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:08,240
Speaker 4: Bit in my movie.

937
00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:10,480
Speaker 10: It's almost a throwaway, but it's like the characters are

938
00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:13,640
Speaker 10: certain they will die if they deviate from these photographs.

939
00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:15,720
Speaker 10: But then the scientist shows up part way through and says,

940
00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:18,520
Speaker 10: I don't think that's necessarily true, you know, and we

941
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:21,239
Speaker 10: never resolve that, which I like, But I would like

942
00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:24,200
Speaker 10: to explore that more deeply because I feel like people

943
00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:26,840
Speaker 10: seem to be getting more polarized into their little paths

944
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:29,040
Speaker 10: of confirmation bias, and it seems like a problem.

945
00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:31,120
Speaker 1: So you've written a movie about time travel, but you're

946
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:34,120
Speaker 1: also just a natural storyteller. Tell me why do you

947
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:37,240
Speaker 1: think people are so drawn to movies about time travel.

948
00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:40,200
Speaker 1: I mean, nobody's experienced it, so it's not something we

949
00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:43,520
Speaker 1: all connect with or resonate with, and yet people seem

950
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:45,960
Speaker 1: to accept it. It's not like something weird and alien

951
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:48,279
Speaker 1: in stories. Why is it something that we find so

952
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:50,719
Speaker 1: easy to connect with when we've never had this kind

953
00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:51,320
Speaker 1: of experience?

954
00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:54,200
Speaker 10: Right Again, I don't want to hammer the regret or

955
00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:56,959
Speaker 10: future worry thing, but I do think those are universal

956
00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:01,799
Speaker 10: experiences and often define people's lives, you know, especially if

957
00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:03,879
Speaker 10: something terrible is happened in the past or they're very

958
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:06,680
Speaker 10: concerned about something terrible upcoming. And so if I had

959
00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:09,960
Speaker 10: to peg something, I would say probably Once people grasp

960
00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:12,719
Speaker 10: the mechanics of the time travel movie, it's easy for

961
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:15,280
Speaker 10: them to get into those emotions, you know, and access

962
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:17,400
Speaker 10: their own anxiety in one direction or another.

963
00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:18,160
Speaker 5: I think.

964
00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:21,080
Speaker 1: So we feel like constrained by the mechanics of time

965
00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:22,799
Speaker 1: in our universe and we want to break out of it.

966
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:25,600
Speaker 10: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, right. Theoretically attached to bred as

967
00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:27,240
Speaker 10: a yearning to be able to go back and change

968
00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:30,040
Speaker 10: what you did wrong, and the future worry attached to

969
00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:31,880
Speaker 10: that as a desire to be able to go forward,

970
00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:34,839
Speaker 10: and of course consciously logically we know we can't do that,

971
00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:37,439
Speaker 10: but once you get put in a fantasy world where

972
00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:39,680
Speaker 10: you can, I think it becomes compelling.

973
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:42,520
Speaker 1: So then let me ask you a personal question, which is,

974
00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:44,279
Speaker 1: if I built a time machine that lets you go

975
00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:47,040
Speaker 1: back in time and change something in your life, what

976
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:49,279
Speaker 1: would you do. Would you use it to go back

977
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:52,080
Speaker 1: and inform bradly about the consequences of decision, or would

978
00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:54,880
Speaker 1: you like go deep into the past and learn something scientific.

979
00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:57,480
Speaker 10: I'd like to think I've had enough therapy to say

980
00:42:57,480 --> 00:42:59,560
Speaker 10: that I wouldn't go back to try to change anything.

981
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:00,920
Speaker 7: You know, It's like that.

982
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:04,080
Speaker 10: I appreciate how you know, my mistakes have formed me.

983
00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:05,879
Speaker 10: I would say, in this moment, I'm in a very

984
00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:08,160
Speaker 10: challenging phase, and so I would be more tempted to

985
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:09,680
Speaker 10: try to go back and change something.

986
00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:10,520
Speaker 4: Although thanks to.

987
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:12,920
Speaker 10: Time travel movies and books, you know, we're all sort

988
00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:15,279
Speaker 10: of hyper aware of the perils of going back and

989
00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:19,080
Speaker 10: changing things. But by studying something, going back to any

990
00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:21,160
Speaker 10: other era and just being able to sit there and observe,

991
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:23,600
Speaker 10: you know, I think would be from a nonfiction.

992
00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:24,040
Speaker 4: Standpoint, obviously great.

993
00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:26,680
Speaker 10: But from a fiction standpoint, you know, the verson militude

994
00:43:26,719 --> 00:43:29,440
Speaker 10: that you could probably extract from some other era would

995
00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:30,640
Speaker 10: just be gold, you know.

996
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:33,319
Speaker 1: All right, wonderful, Well, thanks very much for coming on

997
00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:33,840
Speaker 1: the pod.

998
00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:34,440
Speaker 4: Everybody.

999
00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:36,840
Speaker 1: This is Bradley King and he's one of the writers

1000
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:39,080
Speaker 1: and the director of Time Lapse Are a really fun

1001
00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:42,080
Speaker 1: movie you can all check out. And Bradley's working on

1002
00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:44,000
Speaker 1: several new projects, so we hope to hear more from

1003
00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:44,399
Speaker 1: you soon.

1004
00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:46,440
Speaker 10: Great, thanks for having me on. I really appreciate it.

1005
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:57,040
Speaker 2: Daniel and Kelly's Extraordinary Universe is produced by iHeartRadio.

1006
00:43:57,239 --> 00:43:58,560
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1007
00:43:58,800 --> 00:43:59,719
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1008
00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:02,560
Speaker 1: We want to know what questions do you have about

1009
00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:04,600
Speaker 1: this extraordinary universe.

1010
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1011
00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:08,640
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1012
00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:11,120
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1013
00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:12,279
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1014
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:17,040
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1015
00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:18,040
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1016
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1017
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1019
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1020
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:28,719
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