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Speaker 1: Welcome to Unaddiction the Podcast. My name is doctor Zinga Harrison.

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Speaker 1: I'm a board certified psychiatrist with a specialty in addiction

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Speaker 1: medicine and co founder and chief medical officer of Eleanor Health.

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Speaker 1: On this podcast, we explore the paths that can lead

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Speaker 1: to addiction and the infinite paths that can lead to recovery.

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Speaker 1: Our guests are sharing their own experiences, the tools that

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Speaker 1: have helped them along the way, and the formulas that

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Speaker 1: allow them to thrive in recovery one day at a time.

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Speaker 2: All Right, y'all.

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Speaker 1: This week's episode is a recap of some conversations from

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Speaker 1: seasons one and two that highlighted the impact of addiction

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Speaker 1: and mental health stigma. If you've been listening for the

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Speaker 1: past year, you already know substance use disorders and mental

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Speaker 1: health struggles often come hand in hand. Even if you

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Speaker 1: haven't been listening, you probably know this from personal experience.

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Speaker 1: Our goal with this podcast is to lessen the impact

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Speaker 1: of stigma, have vulnerable conversations, and hopefully make it easier

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Speaker 1: for someone else to ask for help. Next week is

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Speaker 1: our last episode of the season, which will feature Laura Willoughby,

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Speaker 1: founder of Club Soda, and the UK's foremost expert on

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Speaker 1: no and low alcohol drinks. Then we have a super

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Speaker 1: special season lined up featuring all black guests. I am

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Speaker 1: so excited. So thank you for listening, for leaving thoughtful reviews,

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Speaker 1: and for sharing us with your loved ones. Okay, let's

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Speaker 1: get to the episode. I was going to say for

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Speaker 1: not holding my stuffy nose against me, but I decided nonsen.

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Speaker 3: There's a few ways to enter this, and the easiest

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Speaker 3: way is to say that alcohol is something that has

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Speaker 3: shaped my entire life. So that begins when I'm very young,

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Speaker 3: when my father is self identified alcoholic and my sister

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Speaker 3: passes away in a drunk driving accident.

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Speaker 2: Oh man.

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Speaker 3: As I get older, I start drinking and it find

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Speaker 3: it's a way to cover my anxiety. And honestly, I

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Speaker 3: just kind of learned how to drink from the restaurant

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Speaker 3: and hospitality industry that I was a part of. I

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Speaker 3: started when I was sixteen years old, and so it

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Speaker 3: became very normal for me to drink in a way

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Speaker 3: that most human beings don't or shouldn't be clear, and

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Speaker 3: so I learned from grizzled old line cooks and lifetime

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Speaker 3: waitresses and you know, I became well, I was every

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Speaker 3: position you could imagine in a restaurant or bar, and

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Speaker 3: it led me to a fairly vampiric lifestyle at some

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Speaker 3: point where I was like, you know, drinking during work,

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Speaker 3: after work until looking in the morning, you know, and

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Speaker 3: then I would sleep until about three, get up for work,

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Speaker 3: usually be about fifteen minutes late, and then start the

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Speaker 3: whole thing, you know, rinse and repeat. And so it

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Speaker 3: got to the point where, you know, I was doing

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Speaker 3: really well in terms of my recognition as a bartender.

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Speaker 3: You know, in twenty fifteen, I was named best bartender

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Speaker 3: in America. In twenty seventeen, my cocktail bar of the

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Speaker 3: Columbia Room one best American cocktail bar. I served royalty.

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Speaker 3: We literally shut down one night for a princess. Then

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Speaker 3: we you know, I was invited to the White House

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Speaker 3: under the Obama administration, and I did several parties for them,

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Speaker 3: including senior staff. Anyway, I was. I think this is

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Speaker 3: really important just to say that alcohol was there at

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Speaker 3: the worst parts of my life and the best parts

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Speaker 3: of my life, and so I had a very unique

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Speaker 3: life shaped by alcohol, which I'm happy to fill in

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Speaker 3: any additional details, but I'll leave it right there.

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Speaker 1: No, that was incredible because one of the things like

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Speaker 1: that I want people to understand. We think about clinically

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Speaker 1: the development of alcohol use disorder, and we say when

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Speaker 1: did you take your first drink? It starts way before that,

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Speaker 1: And that is what you just laid out for us, right, Like,

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Speaker 1: the role of alcohol in your life started way before

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Speaker 1: you ever had your first drink. And then we always

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Speaker 1: only talk about the negative parts of the substance that

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Speaker 1: a person is using, and we have to recognize these

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Speaker 1: substances are there and even in your case, are at

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Speaker 1: the very root and foundation at the highest points of

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Speaker 1: celebration that you had in your life. And does it

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Speaker 1: then start to become part of your identity being bartender

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Speaker 1: royalty and bar royalty. Right, So take us then to

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Speaker 1: the next phase where now alcohol is not at the

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Speaker 1: center of your existence.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, I mean to further drive from that point.

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Speaker 3: At one point, my brother joked and it was about

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Speaker 3: both of us that without alcohol we wouldn't have friends, hobby,

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Speaker 3: or a job, and all of that seemed to be true.

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Speaker 3: What happened is that was fine to some degree during

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Speaker 3: my twenties and thirties, but it started to catch up

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Speaker 3: with me, and you know, good genetics is no you know,

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Speaker 3: is no defense against alcohol use at the level that

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Speaker 3: I was doing it. And so my health, my stress, anxiety,

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Speaker 3: every kind of aspect of my life was starting to unravel.

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Speaker 3: You know, it was getting divorced. Even though I was

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Speaker 3: winning all these awards, I felt terrible physically, I didn't

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Speaker 3: feel great. My health was deteriorating, my finances weren't great,

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Speaker 3: just like any outcome you could imagine was starting to

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Speaker 3: fall upon and I hadn't quite reached that you know,

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Speaker 3: metaphorical ditch where it was like that's it. But I

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Speaker 3: knew that I was at a point that I had

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Speaker 3: to make a change, and that change actually had a

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Speaker 3: lot to do with my mental health as well. And

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Speaker 3: I know that a lot of people, and I'm sure

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Speaker 3: yourself included, understand that there's a lot of relationship between

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Speaker 3: alcohol use disorder and mental health. And so, you know,

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Speaker 3: I was at a point where I really needed help

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Speaker 3: and I wasn't going to be able to do it

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Speaker 3: for myself anymore, and so I went to an outpatient program.

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Speaker 2: How did you find it?

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Speaker 3: Well, you know, the truth is that you know, like

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Speaker 3: it sounds like a super rational decision. Like I was

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Speaker 3: just bouncing around drinking too much and I was like,

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Speaker 3: oh shit, my finances aren't good. I better No. I mean,

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Speaker 3: I was one day sitting on the couch with my son,

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Speaker 3: who was I don't know, less than two years old,

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Speaker 3: and I couldn't you know, I was at that at

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Speaker 3: my end, you know, like I was super depressed. I

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Speaker 3: was incn and you know, there's my son looking at

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Speaker 3: me like Daddy, it's okay, and you know, like what

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Speaker 3: am I going to do about that? My son is

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Speaker 3: comforting me? And so I reached out to my mom,

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Speaker 3: who is a nurse, and she said, well, let's let's

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Speaker 3: find some programs for you. So I was at a

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Speaker 3: really bad place, and I think that a lot of

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Speaker 3: people have been to that place. Some people have not

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Speaker 3: made it out of that place. And I was lucky

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Speaker 3: I had my son there. I knew that there was

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Speaker 3: something else to live for, and so I decided that

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Speaker 3: I was going to find this program. So so I

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Speaker 3: went to the emergency room. This is the truth. Well

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Speaker 3: I don't think people think about that as an option,

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Speaker 3: because my mom was like, well, let's just go to

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Speaker 3: the emergency room. But that's where you have to start,

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Speaker 3: because right now, this is an emergency. And I think

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Speaker 3: that a lot of people don't understand that too. Is

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Speaker 3: that you can if you broke your leg after a

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Speaker 3: nasty fall, you go to the emergency room.

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Speaker 2: Wouldn't think twice when.

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Speaker 3: You break your brain, where do you go? You know,

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Speaker 3: to alcohol in a lot of cases, to substances in

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Speaker 3: a lot of cases. But the truth is that it's

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Speaker 3: just it's valid, and it's necessary in some cases to

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Speaker 3: go to the emergency room. So I did, and then

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Speaker 3: I got checked into an outpatient program. So I want

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Speaker 3: to make that clear. This wasn't like just like a

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Speaker 3: really happy, go lucky moment.

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Speaker 2: There was some I think it's super helpful, really.

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Speaker 3: Some terrible soul scraping moments there that made me change

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Speaker 3: what my approach was. And so when I saw it

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Speaker 3: help it was a little I was. I was pretty embarrassed. Actually,

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Speaker 3: you know, I was really embarrassed because I thought that

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Speaker 3: that meant, you know, that I was weak, that I

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Speaker 3: couldn't handle my liquor, you know, like all these things

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Speaker 3: that I think are really now I see are really stupid.

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Speaker 3: But at the time it had been just programmed as

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Speaker 3: a human, as a man, as that's right. So I

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Speaker 3: had to just say I was, you know, I couldn't

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Speaker 3: do it alone. And the result was that it opened

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Speaker 3: this entirely different world for me. And that world was

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Speaker 3: scary too, by the way, you know, like it wasn't

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Speaker 3: like this this situation where all of a sudden, okay, cool,

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Speaker 3: you stop drinking, or you address your mental health, which

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Speaker 3: I was. You know, I was diagnosed with bipolar depression. Okay,

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Speaker 3: that didn't fix everything, but I started to, you know,

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Speaker 3: go to therapy. I started using therapy to drugs. After

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Speaker 3: that door opened, I started concentrating on my health, my

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Speaker 3: what I eat, my movement. Sleep. I didn't know you

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Speaker 3: were supposed to sleep. I didn't know that. Like I was.

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Speaker 3: I was like working in restaurants and I was like

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Speaker 3: bragging to people that was like I'm three hours a night.

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Speaker 3: That's how much I sleep, you know, like I'm some hero.

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Speaker 2: That's all I need.

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Speaker 3: Right, But it was that was not good, and now like,

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Speaker 3: oh yeah, if I don't get eight hours sleep, you

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Speaker 3: know that my day is over. So I think that,

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Speaker 3: you know, I started to address it piece by piece,

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Speaker 3: and and I really for me that I would not

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Speaker 3: identify in the same way that my father did as

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Speaker 3: an alcoholic, right, And I think that, you know, there

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Speaker 3: are people who are familiar with addiction noticed that alcohol

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Speaker 3: use disorder is a more modern, temporary way to say this,

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Speaker 3: and alcohol alcoholism is a more colloquial way to use it,

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Speaker 3: which which people use all the time. But but I

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Speaker 3: realized I did have alcohol use disorder, but I didn't

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Speaker 3: have these cravings that meant that I could not drink anymore.

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Speaker 3: It really was I had to address it from the

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Speaker 3: inside out. I had to deal with my mental health.

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Speaker 3: I had to, you know, look at myself in a

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Speaker 3: way that I never had before and change my habits.

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Speaker 3: And once that happened, I actually found that I could

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Speaker 3: drink occasionally and it was not an issue that didn't

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Speaker 3: It wasn't like one sip and I'm right back there.

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Speaker 3: But as time went on, what's funny is that I

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Speaker 3: was feeling so good about my life and the changes

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Speaker 3: that I made, that I decided I didn't need alcohol

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Speaker 3: at all, that there's nothing that alcohol could do for

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Speaker 3: me that I couldn't do through other better means. What

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Speaker 3: I really am saying is that for me, this was

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Speaker 3: a better way to address it.

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Speaker 1: I love this so much, so I want to click

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Speaker 1: on a couple of things that you said. One, you

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Speaker 1: went through a period where you could drink in a

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Speaker 1: non disordered way. And AA, which I absolutely love, which

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Speaker 1: is based completely in abstinence, is what people think of

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Speaker 1: when they think of recovery from alcohol use disorder, when

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Speaker 1: in reality, the majority of people recover to controlled use

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Speaker 1: as opposed to complete abstinence. But we have to think about,

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Speaker 1: like you said, this illness alcohol use disorder, just like

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Speaker 1: every other illness, has mild, moderate, severe, and there will

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Speaker 1: be some people that have severe alcohol use disorder where

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Speaker 1: drinking and moderation will never be an option, and there

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Speaker 1: will be folks like you where drinking and moderation is

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Speaker 1: an option.

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Speaker 2: And you're just like, I don't need that option.

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Speaker 1: Other people will exercise that option, right, And so you're

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Speaker 1: getting into this concept of the magic formula is what

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Speaker 1: I call it, and everybody's formula. You just made this emphasis,

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Speaker 1: and I'm going to emphasize your emphasis is theirs It

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Speaker 1: is individual, and what the components of that formula need

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Speaker 1: to be are individual, and those components may change over

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Speaker 1: time as your life changes over time, as you change

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Speaker 1: over time.

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Speaker 4: So I grew up in an affluent suburb of Los Angeles,

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Speaker 4: and when I was eight years old, my parents were

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Speaker 4: separated and I was going through a period where I

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Speaker 4: was starting to have a lot of anxiety and feelings

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Speaker 4: about something that had happened years before that when I

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Speaker 4: was four that I wasn't very clear on at the

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Speaker 4: time because I was eight, and I had one afternoon

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Speaker 4: where I heard my mother on the phone. She was

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Speaker 4: in the other room and I could hear she was

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Speaker 4: upset on the phone, and I started having a panic attack.

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Speaker 4: I didn't know it was a panic attack at the time,

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Speaker 4: but that's what I was having. I went for eight

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Speaker 4: I was eight. Yeah, I went into the bathroom and

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Speaker 4: I opened the medicine cabinet, and I don't even know

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Speaker 4: what I was looking for, but there was We had

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Speaker 4: a bottle of expired darbasset with my grandmother's name on it.

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Speaker 4: It must have been from a surgery, but had been

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Speaker 4: sitting there for a long time. I'm assuming my mother

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Speaker 4: held on to it in case anybody needed for a

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Speaker 4: headache or something. And there was a label on it

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Speaker 4: that said may cause drowsiness. And I had no idea

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Speaker 4: what the medication was. I just was like, oh, drowsy,

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Speaker 4: I want to be drowsy. So I took one, and

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Speaker 4: I really liked what it did for me. It gave

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Speaker 4: me like a sort of layer of protection between myself

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Speaker 4: and my feelings. And from that point forward, probably not

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Speaker 4: right away, but you know, over the next few years,

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Speaker 4: if I was in somebody's bathroom and they had something

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Speaker 4: with a do not do with a drowsy label or

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Speaker 4: don't operate heavy machinery, I would take it. And because

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Speaker 4: I'm you know, old, they didn't have child proof caps

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Speaker 4: on them then, or I don't remember them, I didn't

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Speaker 4: have any trouble getting into pill bottles, so I would

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Speaker 4: kind of just tuck them away so that if I

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Speaker 4: had a panic attack, I had something to take. And

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Speaker 4: I remember having such a sort of deep seated shame

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Speaker 4: that I had the anxiety that I had. I was

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Speaker 4: already having a lot of ideation and thoughts of self harm,

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Speaker 4: and these were sort of like my emergency stash that

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Speaker 4: I could go to when I.

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Speaker 1: Felt that way.

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Speaker 4: When I reached the age of thirteen, there was a

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Speaker 4: confluence of things that happened, you know, like for many

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Speaker 4: young female identifying people. I felt like I was getting

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Speaker 4: sort of mixed messages.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 4: I wasn't conscious of this, but I looking back, there

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Speaker 4: was sort of this these mixed messages. I was suddenly

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Speaker 4: five foot eight. I suddenly was aware of the power

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Speaker 4: that being young and female gave me, and it was

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Speaker 4: something I had not felt before on a on sort

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Speaker 4: of an unconscious level, I understood that that was currency.

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Speaker 4: And so there was the sort of the introduction of

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Speaker 4: like flirting with boys usually older than me, and also

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Speaker 4: feeling very insecure about myself. I didn't feel attractive, I

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Speaker 4: didn't feel I felt that there was something fundamentally wrong

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Speaker 4: with me. And as a child, I felt like I

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Speaker 4: had this you know, overarching feeling like if people could

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Speaker 4: really see who I was, they wouldn't love me because

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Speaker 4: I'm a monster. And I wasn't cognizant of where it

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Speaker 4: exactly came from. I just knew that there was something

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Speaker 4: fundamentally wrong with me.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 4: As I've talked to people over the years during my recovery,

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Speaker 4: like from my parents to to you know, strangers, there's

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Speaker 4: there's been a constant sort of like struggle to understand

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Speaker 4: like how somebody makes that decision and the way that

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Speaker 4: I always explained it is that the addiction was there

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Speaker 4: before drugs came in to the picture.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And there.

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Speaker 4: Wasn't a question for me because I just wanted. I

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Speaker 4: would have taken anything to make me feel something other

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Speaker 4: than how I felt good, good or bad. So that

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Speaker 4: was the I On that night, ten days after my

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Speaker 4: thirteenth birthday, I tried heroin for the first time and

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Speaker 4: lost my virginity. And I had a very you know,

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Speaker 4: sort of strange experience with that too, because I became

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Speaker 4: sort of more aware that like that it wasn't the

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Speaker 4: first time that I had been in a sexual situation.

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Speaker 4: And as I sort of you know, got into my

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Speaker 4: teenage years, realized that the truth was I had been

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Speaker 4: molested when I was four by an adolescent boy who

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Speaker 4: was the son of family friends. It happened repeatedly, and

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Speaker 4: I had never told anyone. I think that for me,

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Speaker 4: that was really kind of at the root of why

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Speaker 4: I thought there was something wrong with me. And so

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Speaker 4: from that point forward, I started using heroin with my boyfriend.

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Speaker 4: He became my boyfriend on weekends. But you know, it

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Speaker 4: was it didn't get out of control right away. I

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Speaker 4: was hiding it all through. You know, for like a

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Speaker 4: two and a half year period, I was using drugs,

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Speaker 4: mostly just heroines, some cocaine, never alcohol or marijuana. Was

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Speaker 4: just drugs and end pills. Continued using pills, but you know,

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Speaker 4: I had you know, straight a's, I was popular, had

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Speaker 4: a lot of friends. I was a yeer leader, a

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Speaker 4: volleyball player, a competitive a question in. So throughout my

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Speaker 4: teenage years, I was using off, you know, using if

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Speaker 4: I wasn't. I stopped using heroin when I was fifteen,

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Speaker 4: but I continued taking a lot of pills, a lot

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Speaker 4: of you know, crystal meth, different things like that. And

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Speaker 4: then in my early twenties, at twenty one, I started

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Speaker 4: using heroin again again. Came on like the heels of

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Speaker 4: like it was an emotional sort of like breakup kind

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Speaker 4: of thing. And that's when I started using Nobody. I mean,

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Speaker 4: for ten years between thirteen to twenty three, I hid

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Speaker 4: this other than from a couple of people who I

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Speaker 4: confided in, From every friend, family member, teachers, nobody knew,

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Speaker 4: and people were pretty shocked in my family and definitely

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Speaker 4: among a lot of my friends and I you know,

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Speaker 4: that's one of the things I think that part of

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Speaker 4: The reason that I hid so successfully for ten years

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Speaker 4: is because I didn't look like what their image of

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Speaker 4: a drug addict looked like.

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Speaker 1: Right, And so let's stay here for a second, because

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Speaker 1: spot On, that's one of the things we think we

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Speaker 1: know that we unlearn is quote unquote what a person

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Speaker 1: with addiction looks like. And I think the other thing

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Speaker 1: that really struck me, you ran it down, like spot On,

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Speaker 1: You're like, I was a cheerleader, volleyball player, competitive equestrian.

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Speaker 1: I had straight a's, I had a lot of friends,

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Speaker 1: all of the things we use that are performative to

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Speaker 1: tell us we don't need to be worried about a

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Speaker 1: person that blinds us to there had to be signs

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Speaker 1: that we just couldn't see because we've been programmed, Like

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Speaker 1: if you have good grades and you're playing a sport,

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Speaker 1: everything is great.

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Speaker 2: But that pain.

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Speaker 1: I really loved what you said. You said the addiction

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Speaker 1: was there before I ever picked up a.

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Speaker 4: Drug, right, And you know, I mean I say often

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Speaker 4: to people that like heroin ended me from killing myself,

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Speaker 4: and I'm not suggesting that as a solution for people. However,

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Speaker 4: I didn't have the tools. I didn't feel like I

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Speaker 4: could go to my parents because I had so much

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Speaker 4: shame about it. I just didn't feel like there was

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Speaker 4: anyone I could turn to, and I had to if

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Speaker 4: I was going to survive, I had to figure this out.

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Speaker 4: And so it really was a means of survival for me.

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Speaker 4: And I really appreciate what you said about the opioid crisis, because,

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Speaker 4: you know, I do a lot of speaking with legislators

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Speaker 4: about drug policy reforms, speaking with mental health professionals, people

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Speaker 4: in the medical industry, law enforcement, and parents. One of

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Speaker 4: the you know, biggest failures in our country around drug

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Speaker 4: policy is the idea of the war on drugs and

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Speaker 4: then later on this sort of like let's punish pharmaceutical companies.

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Speaker 4: That is not to say that they did not market

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Speaker 4: things and take advantage of a situation and that there

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Speaker 4: were pill mills and all of that. Yes, but it

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Speaker 4: is never a supply issue. It is always a demand issue.

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Speaker 4: And the reason that we have the proliferation of fentanyl

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Speaker 4: in the drug market and now xylazine in the drug

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Speaker 4: market is one result of our failed war on drugs.

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Speaker 4: This is not the fault of Mexico, this is not

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Speaker 4: the fault of China. This is not because we need

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Speaker 4: stricter borders. This is because we have a mental health

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Speaker 4: crisis largely based on the systemic failure to support people

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Speaker 4: on every level. You know, I was never arrested, and

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Speaker 4: that's because of my skin color and because I came

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Speaker 4: from a socioeconomic background where I had financial support. So

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Speaker 4: I had a decent car, I you know, access to money.

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Speaker 4: So I went to rehab and it was not a

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Speaker 4: bad experience at all. It laid you know, a lot

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Speaker 4: of what I did in my two stints in rehab

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Speaker 4: laid the foundation for my recovery. However, after that first

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Speaker 4: trip to rehab, it took me another five and a

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Speaker 4: half years near constant relapse to finally get to a

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Speaker 4: place where I was able to address the real root issues.

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Speaker 4: I wasn't a person who necessarily felt like I like

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Speaker 4: the disease model of alcoholism and addiction resonated with me,

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Speaker 4: and I couldn't figure out why I couldn't do it,

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Speaker 4: because it wasn't that I wasn't working the steps in

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Speaker 4: a twelve step programmer that I didn't want it. I

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Speaker 4: just I would get to a point with emotional pain

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Speaker 4: where I felt like I wanted to rip my skin

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Speaker 4: off or jump out the window. And I would literally

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Speaker 4: sit on my hands and count, so like same thing

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Speaker 4: I did when I was a kid, So I wouldn't

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Speaker 4: harm myself.

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Speaker 1: I you know.

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Speaker 4: The other thing I the reason that I say that too,

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Speaker 4: is that in speaking to people, you know, I think

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Speaker 4: in America culture, there is there is this sort of

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Speaker 4: like idea of like pulling yourself up by the bootstraps.

401
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Speaker 4: And well, like, you know, well he got out of

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Speaker 4: the ghetto and did and you know, if he can

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Speaker 4: do it, and and I like to say a couple

404
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Speaker 4: of things about that. Number One, I know from personal experience. Yes,

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Speaker 4: sure there are people who are able to get out

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Speaker 4: of really horrible situations, right they say they're born into

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Speaker 4: to poverty and they get themselves out of it. Great,

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Speaker 4: that's wonderful. But I think the majority of people need

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Speaker 4: a little bit more support, you know. So I say

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Speaker 4: to people, Look, I had all of the My family

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Speaker 4: was supportive, they did not turn their backs on me.

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Speaker 4: I had access to mental health care, I had access

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Speaker 4: to physical health care. I had, you know, plenty of

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Speaker 4: friends and family who were supportive to me. And it

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Speaker 4: still took me five and a half years of constant

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Speaker 4: relapse so talk.

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Speaker 2: To me about the formula before you do.

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Speaker 1: First of all, I want to say, so you're describing

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Speaker 1: what we would call diagnostically a severe opioid use disorder, right,

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Speaker 1: opio use disorder. We measure it now my moderate severe

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Speaker 1: severe substance use disorder. Your natural history of the disease

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Speaker 1: is what we call it. Adoptors is like, what does

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Speaker 1: it usually look like? Is exactly spot on. So usually

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Speaker 1: people start struggling, They struggle for about five years before

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Speaker 1: they even approach the treatment system for help the first time,

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Speaker 1: and then there are periodic relapses for eight years and

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Speaker 1: then sustain recovery for a year and relapse risk falls

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Speaker 1: a bit, and then five years and it falls significantly.

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Speaker 1: So you are like exactly in that time frame for

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Speaker 1: severe substance use disorder. And yet we're still out here

431
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Speaker 1: saying like, oh, you had to go to rehab twice,

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Speaker 1: that's something about you. Like, oh, oh, whatever, I'm about

433
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Speaker 1: to start get on a soapbox, I'll just avoid it.

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Speaker 4: But no, it's true.

435
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Speaker 5: I mean it's not. Oh.

436
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:06,480
Speaker 4: I was listening. I was listening to a podcast where

437
00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:09,520
Speaker 4: there was a police officer who had struggled with addiction

438
00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:12,080
Speaker 4: and he said something that he wasn't sure if the

439
00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:14,000
Speaker 4: policy had changed, but when he was in the forest,

440
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:17,280
Speaker 4: they just started letting police officers go to rehab but

441
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:22,280
Speaker 4: only for alcohol, Oh my god, not for drugs, And

442
00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:24,239
Speaker 4: then it was and then he changed it, and then

443
00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:26,760
Speaker 4: it was that they could go to rehab but only once.

444
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:31,480
Speaker 4: And the idea that you know, that we expect people

445
00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:35,480
Speaker 4: to just snap their fingers and have their entire constitution

446
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:39,360
Speaker 4: change in twenty eight days is so ridiculous. And as

447
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:42,320
Speaker 4: you pointed out before, you know, it would with different

448
00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:45,600
Speaker 4: treatment protocols if we were treating cancer or any other

449
00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:48,560
Speaker 4: serious illment. If something isn't working, then we're like, okay,

450
00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 4: let's try this. One of the things, like when I

451
00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:54,880
Speaker 4: was first trying to get recovery in twelve step meetings,

452
00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:59,359
Speaker 4: it was very, you know, very hardlined on abstinence based recovery,

453
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:01,639
Speaker 4: and I so I was like, oh, you know, if

454
00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:04,199
Speaker 4: somebody's on methodone, they're not really in recovery. Or if

455
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:08,560
Speaker 4: somebody's and I at the time like I had started, well,

456
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:12,040
Speaker 4: bututrin in recovery and then some people that's not recovery,

457
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:13,840
Speaker 4: and I'm like, so I kept going off a bit

458
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:17,560
Speaker 4: and then I look easy, and you know it was

459
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:21,760
Speaker 4: really a struggle. And obviously now my viewpoint is so

460
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:26,040
Speaker 4: different because recovery. Recovery is not the definition of recovery

461
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:28,359
Speaker 4: is an ABSTINENCEO.

462
00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:29,800
Speaker 2: Say it again louder for the people in the back.

463
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:34,320
Speaker 4: The definition of recovery does not include abstinence. Abstinately that

464
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:37,920
Speaker 4: if abstinence is part of your recovery, great, but that's

465
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:40,840
Speaker 4: not where recovery is. It's about getting back something that

466
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:44,080
Speaker 4: you lost, part of your welf, your life, your ability

467
00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:45,879
Speaker 4: to be a part of society.

468
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:51,560
Speaker 1: Your ability to believe could be a mother to your right.

469
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:54,200
Speaker 2: This is what recovery is. Right.

470
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:58,320
Speaker 4: Oh, if somebody had told me, even while I was pregnant,

471
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:03,200
Speaker 4: that I would be able to not just stay off

472
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:07,440
Speaker 4: of drugs, but to be able to go through life

473
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:09,840
Speaker 4: and not feel on a daily basis like I wanted

474
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:14,119
Speaker 4: to die, I wouldn't have believed them. Yeah, I really

475
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:17,000
Speaker 4: I didn't think that happiness was a possibility for me.

476
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:21,959
Speaker 4: I've learned more about myself and my my psychological makeup.

477
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:25,800
Speaker 4: I've learned more about the way that my brain works.

478
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:29,160
Speaker 4: You know, I think I had so many different diagnoses

479
00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:34,159
Speaker 4: thrown at me over the years. Everything from you know,

480
00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:43,480
Speaker 4: like generalized anxiety to key to bipolar two borderline personality

481
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:48,199
Speaker 4: disorder was thrown at me all the time. And you know, now,

482
00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 4: I you know, with the psychiatrist, I have now. For

483
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:52,880
Speaker 4: the longest time, he kept saying, you know, I really

484
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:55,159
Speaker 4: you know, have you ever been screened for ADHD? And

485
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:57,560
Speaker 4: I was like, no, I'm like, I did really well

486
00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:01,359
Speaker 4: in school. I'm like, and was it finally went through

487
00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:05,439
Speaker 4: the diagnostic test and lo and behold and looked at

488
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:09,000
Speaker 4: sort of amply and I really think so much of

489
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:12,359
Speaker 4: it was just trauma and ADHD. And when I learned

490
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:15,480
Speaker 4: how to manage my ADHD, which isn't just medication, it's

491
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:22,439
Speaker 4: a whole holistic you know toolbox. Yeah, the difference my

492
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:25,200
Speaker 4: insomnia went away for the first time in my life,

493
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:31,439
Speaker 4: and I realized how there were so many things that

494
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:35,000
Speaker 4: I could do to help my brain that was constantly

495
00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:40,640
Speaker 4: looking for dopamine. There were just little things and so

496
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:42,680
Speaker 4: I do those things well.

497
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:45,360
Speaker 6: You know, so when you're people understand when you're at

498
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:47,880
Speaker 6: a high. You know, once you taste a success, you

499
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:50,560
Speaker 6: constantly like, okay, I'm one. Since you're young, you know,

500
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:52,840
Speaker 6: it's like this path is laid out for you, right,

501
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:55,280
Speaker 6: especially as sports, it's like, okay, you play, you go

502
00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:58,240
Speaker 6: to college, you play pro. So now you know, I'm

503
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:02,719
Speaker 6: number one pick in the w NBA draft and consider

504
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:05,440
Speaker 6: a game changer, you know, I signed you know, big

505
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:08,920
Speaker 6: deals with Nike, gatorays on my faces, places and stuff.

506
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:10,640
Speaker 6: And I get to go. Now I'm drafted, I get

507
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:13,120
Speaker 6: to leave the South. I'm back on the East Coast

508
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:17,320
Speaker 6: and DC for the Washington Mystics. So light life is good.

509
00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 6: But here I am now leaving that protective environment of

510
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:25,280
Speaker 6: my grandmother, right, leaving that protective environment of coach Pat

511
00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:28,400
Speaker 6: Summit to now being you know, twenty one years old.

512
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:32,760
Speaker 6: You know what means in DC by myself pretty much,

513
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:36,120
Speaker 6: you know, and trying to figure figure life out. You know,

514
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:39,520
Speaker 6: here I have my own house, I have material things,

515
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:43,000
Speaker 6: and you know, after a while, I'm just like, all right,

516
00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:45,120
Speaker 6: someone needs to live with me. And I have one

517
00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:47,720
Speaker 6: of my cousins, you know, come stay with me, Sharon,

518
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:51,280
Speaker 6: And things are going great. Like you know, the season

519
00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:53,320
Speaker 6: wasn't the best because when you're number one, you go

520
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:56,160
Speaker 6: to the worst team. But I'm enjoying it. I'm enjoying

521
00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 6: the people and coming into my own trying to figure

522
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:01,160
Speaker 6: this out. And then it was the Olympic year, so

523
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:04,240
Speaker 6: another high. You know, we went gold. That's two thousand

524
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:09,000
Speaker 6: and then my grandmother passes, probably like my third season,

525
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:13,000
Speaker 6: and my world was like shattered. I always tell people

526
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:16,920
Speaker 6: I buried my grandmother and I buried my emotions, so

527
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:20,719
Speaker 6: it went to where I was feeling after like my

528
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:23,600
Speaker 6: grandmother passed. It was like I was on autopilot. I

529
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:26,040
Speaker 6: had one of my best seasons of my career, I think,

530
00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:30,240
Speaker 6: leading the league and scoring and rebounding, but mentally I

531
00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 6: was just trying to push through to day.

532
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:32,160
Speaker 3: You know.

533
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:35,800
Speaker 6: I would try to have dreams about her. I'm like,

534
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:39,240
Speaker 6: if I dream about her tonight. I was just really suffering, grieving,

535
00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:42,760
Speaker 6: you know, and I constantly just pushed through because you

536
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:44,880
Speaker 6: can't be sad, right, I'm pushing through. I'm pushing through.

537
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:47,800
Speaker 2: And well that's the strategy. That's the twenty ten strategy,

538
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 2: right right, just push through.

539
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:49,360
Speaker 3: Yes.

540
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:52,280
Speaker 6: And then my grandfather the following year, and let me

541
00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:55,400
Speaker 6: tell you my grandfather. You know, God rest is so

542
00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 6: but we weren't close like that, you know, he was

543
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:01,120
Speaker 6: in my life. So he passed away. But my therapist

544
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:04,680
Speaker 6: was saying it was like a trigger, and I guess

545
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:07,520
Speaker 6: like I was headed to see my teammates to hang out,

546
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:11,240
Speaker 6: and I pulled over and I was just overcome with

547
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:14,400
Speaker 6: all these emotions, and I just remember going to my

548
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:18,440
Speaker 6: place in like days past. I guess I had the

549
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:21,800
Speaker 6: doctor said it was like an episode. And next thing

550
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:24,800
Speaker 6: you know, I'm on ESPN the ticker that people told me,

551
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:27,720
Speaker 6: and everybody's wondering where I'm at because it's the middle

552
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:30,160
Speaker 6: of my season and I'm in my place, you know,

553
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:35,960
Speaker 6: really struggling with suicidal ideation. I'm wishing that with my grandmother.

554
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:40,400
Speaker 6: I'm just I just didn't want to be here any anymore.

555
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:44,160
Speaker 6: I just remember I'm laughing even though it's like serious.

556
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:47,280
Speaker 6: But I just remember like eating fruity pebbles. That was

557
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:50,320
Speaker 6: like my favorite little cereal, and I do remember eating those.

558
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:53,760
Speaker 6: But I was just like a zombie. And I know,

559
00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:59,040
Speaker 6: Coach Summit came to town, and you know people it came,

560
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:02,800
Speaker 6: but it's it's just like nobody could could connect with me.

561
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:06,760
Speaker 1: You were so deep in what sounds like a major

562
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:12,760
Speaker 1: depressive episode, triggered by the grief of really losing your grandmother,

563
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:16,680
Speaker 1: triggered by your granddad, but this is your how old

564
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:17,360
Speaker 1: by this time?

565
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:19,560
Speaker 2: Twenty three? Am?

566
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:22,160
Speaker 6: I'm yeah, probably twenty three, twenty four, Yes.

567
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:27,040
Speaker 1: This is twenty four years worth of all of that

568
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:30,520
Speaker 1: hurt and pain in emotion and always working the twenty

569
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:34,240
Speaker 1: ten formula, right, like being a high performer and looking

570
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:39,120
Speaker 1: great while suffering on the inside. Yeah, it's it hits

571
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:44,600
Speaker 1: the peak. And so how did you recover from that episode?

572
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:46,520
Speaker 1: And what have things been like since?

573
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:50,120
Speaker 6: Oh, recovering from that? So you got to stand this

574
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:52,240
Speaker 6: the middle of the season, so having to deal with

575
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:55,000
Speaker 6: like the media and whatever, and you know, I'm used

576
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:57,120
Speaker 6: to you know, people can motivate me, people are close

577
00:32:57,120 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 6: to me, all right, you could get through this. And

578
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:02,440
Speaker 6: my coach gave me own the book. This is called

579
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:06,400
Speaker 6: Unquiet Mind by Kate Kay Jamison, doctor k Jamison from

580
00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:09,600
Speaker 6: John Hopkins, and she lives with a bipolar disorder. So

581
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:13,120
Speaker 6: I like read the book, like one day. I read

582
00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:15,440
Speaker 6: the book and I'm like, Okay, I can do this

583
00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:19,480
Speaker 6: because that's an athlete's mentality, right. And I remember when

584
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 6: I when it was emergency, the team and then everybody

585
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:25,000
Speaker 6: sent me to this psychiatrist and a Gold Coast in

586
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:29,200
Speaker 6: DC and I'm in the room she's telling me I'm suicidal.

587
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:31,440
Speaker 6: My mom's there, and my mom will tell you. She's

588
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:34,959
Speaker 6: like she didn't recognized me. I've never they said they

589
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:36,960
Speaker 6: had to put me on like medication. I want to

590
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:39,000
Speaker 6: go to hospital. I'm going to the hospital, you know.

591
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:40,960
Speaker 6: And then I'm looking like you don't even know me.

592
00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:43,880
Speaker 6: I remember being soul like I popped up. I said,

593
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:46,680
Speaker 6: how are you giving me medication? And so they gave

594
00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:49,000
Speaker 6: me a medication and I'm like, all right, I got this,

595
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:51,440
Speaker 6: now you know you you come down. I'm like, I

596
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:53,600
Speaker 6: got this. I can go play because I'm a people

597
00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:56,720
Speaker 6: pleasing right. I hop back on the on the court.

598
00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:59,480
Speaker 6: I never forget I'm playing against the Detroit shot. It

599
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:02,960
Speaker 6: felt like really poetry in motion. It was like I'm

600
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:05,960
Speaker 6: on this medication. Everything was like so the slow motion.

601
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:08,919
Speaker 6: And I played that game and that was the last

602
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:12,040
Speaker 6: game I ever played for that team. I grabbed my

603
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:16,759
Speaker 6: stuff normally shower, I left. I just left and I

604
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:20,560
Speaker 6: never returned, and I found myself just like trying to

605
00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:24,040
Speaker 6: run away from the intervention. So I went over to Spain.

606
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:29,640
Speaker 6: I was there in Barcelona by your team. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

607
00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:32,239
Speaker 6: you know, because I need for me. I just need

608
00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:35,839
Speaker 6: to be away from everyone. That's what I think. Sure,

609
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:39,200
Speaker 6: that's what you thought, So that's what I thought. So

610
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:42,439
Speaker 6: I'm running. I'm running because I don't want to deal

611
00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:45,080
Speaker 6: with the with the issues, and the press was the

612
00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:49,760
Speaker 6: media was not so kind because you know, people can't

613
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:52,360
Speaker 6: you know, it's like a visible illness, right if people

614
00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:55,040
Speaker 6: see that you can put your words together and they

615
00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:58,120
Speaker 6: see you and they don't know what's like going on inside.

616
00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:00,160
Speaker 6: Sometimes you know, we judge people, so you you know,

617
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:02,799
Speaker 6: people wrote like harsh things about me, and it was

618
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:04,920
Speaker 6: a lot of rumors that sheet. They said I had

619
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:07,680
Speaker 6: like New Gary disease, I was pregnant. Just a lot

620
00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:10,400
Speaker 6: of things are starting to come out. So I went away.

621
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:13,520
Speaker 6: And then for a lot of women, we played internationally,

622
00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:16,640
Speaker 6: so I was over there. The Spanish team found out

623
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:19,719
Speaker 6: I ended up playing over there. Then I started, you know,

624
00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:22,600
Speaker 6: getting a little calmer and figuring this out. And then

625
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:26,560
Speaker 6: some media came over from the US. Andrew Nicholas came,

626
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:29,560
Speaker 6: a big reporter came over and did a piece for

627
00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:32,880
Speaker 6: like ESPN, and I think it was probably like one

628
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:35,360
Speaker 6: of the first times where like I talked about like

629
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:39,680
Speaker 6: mental health issues, you know, and I was afraid. I'm

630
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:43,200
Speaker 6: not gonna lie. It took a lot, and next thing,

631
00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:46,200
Speaker 6: you know, I go back. I requested a trade DCD

632
00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:48,439
Speaker 6: in one trade me so now I'm going to LA.

633
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:51,359
Speaker 6: But I got so much support, That's what I want

634
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:53,759
Speaker 6: to say. Like when I finally got the courage to

635
00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:58,680
Speaker 6: talk about my issues, you know, people understood, people rallied

636
00:35:58,680 --> 00:35:59,120
Speaker 6: behind me.

637
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:02,040
Speaker 2: I just been there, man.

638
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:03,719
Speaker 6: But when you're young, you don't know that.

639
00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:07,920
Speaker 1: Because we won't talk about it. And that is like,

640
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:10,440
Speaker 1: I think the number one thing we can do for

641
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:13,200
Speaker 1: our young people, this is suicide prevention.

642
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:16,000
Speaker 2: What's the number one message? You are not alone?

643
00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:19,440
Speaker 6: I found a regiment that works for me. I understand.

644
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:22,279
Speaker 6: I have to connect with nature. I have to take

645
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:26,280
Speaker 6: my medication. I have to have like some time for

646
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:31,319
Speaker 6: for Shamikua. I got balanced, like I said, stable my

647
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:35,760
Speaker 6: mental health and in recovery. You know, but I'm aware,

648
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:37,160
Speaker 6: I'm I woke now.

649
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:39,480
Speaker 2: Right, that's right. Your sies are open.

650
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:42,600
Speaker 6: Right, so I know like my feelings and I know

651
00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:44,800
Speaker 6: how I'm just you know, I just have a different

652
00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:47,560
Speaker 6: tool tools, you know, tools right now that I can use.

653
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:53,320
Speaker 6: I think like this applies to any any person, you know, ethnicity, race,

654
00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:55,960
Speaker 6: you know, gender, all that stuff. But I'm gonna say

655
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:58,840
Speaker 6: more for like, because I am a black woman, I

656
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:02,200
Speaker 6: get tired of us on our community having to push

657
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:04,480
Speaker 6: through that word. Like I mean, I just put my

658
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:08,960
Speaker 6: head down and I'm pushing through. Throw that away, Like

659
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:11,160
Speaker 6: why why do you always have to feel that weight?

660
00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:12,360
Speaker 3: That weight is heavy?

661
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:15,879
Speaker 6: Like you know, you know, I told one of my homegirls,

662
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:18,680
Speaker 6: like back when I was in Atlanta and I'm like,

663
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:21,720
Speaker 6: you know, going through therapy and stuff like that. I'm like, y'all,

664
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:26,319
Speaker 6: we gotta be better. My my white friends, they're like

665
00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:30,359
Speaker 6: talking at Cottails girl, have my therapy appointment at you see.

666
00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:33,440
Speaker 6: And as soon as I mentioned therapy is like in

667
00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:37,160
Speaker 6: our community, it's like you know, you she crazy or whatever.

668
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:39,960
Speaker 6: And I'm like, yo, we gotta change that. So I'm thankful.

669
00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:43,080
Speaker 6: Like again, I feel the universe is using me because

670
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:46,959
Speaker 6: now my friends who you know, not talk about these things.

671
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:49,520
Speaker 6: My family members that will not talk about these things

672
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:53,520
Speaker 6: now discuss these things. You know, therapy and you know,

673
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:57,560
Speaker 6: being ballast because I mean, you know, you're you're an educator,

674
00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:01,080
Speaker 6: educated woman, you have a husband, family and all this stuff.

675
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:04,320
Speaker 6: That's dude got a lot to carry it career. Family,

676
00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:08,080
Speaker 6: that's a lot all of us. We're dealing with stuff,

677
00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:11,640
Speaker 6: you know, So yeah, just take care of yourselves.

678
00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:15,160
Speaker 7: Yeah, I fell in love with alcohol.

679
00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:22,440
Speaker 8: I was like eighteen. I went to college and I

680
00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:25,239
Speaker 8: had like freedom for the first time. I had a

681
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:29,160
Speaker 8: strict upbringing, very strict, so I didn't like it's a

682
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:31,480
Speaker 8: party that much in high school. And when I did

683
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:34,760
Speaker 8: in high school, I mean I was like a senior

684
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:36,360
Speaker 8: and I would just get blacked out. So then I

685
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:39,680
Speaker 8: went to college, and college was I mean, I was

686
00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:42,120
Speaker 8: blacked out all the time, like.

687
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:44,760
Speaker 7: I mean every other day.

688
00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:49,560
Speaker 8: I just I everyone knew I was gonna be blacked

689
00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:53,120
Speaker 8: out too, Like I just I loved I loved it.

690
00:38:53,719 --> 00:39:00,759
Speaker 8: I loved it because it it took away that anxiety initially,

691
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:05,400
Speaker 8: you know, of do I have the right to exist

692
00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:08,279
Speaker 8: the way I am in this space that I'm in?

693
00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:10,040
Speaker 7: Does that make sense?

694
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:10,760
Speaker 3: Yeah?

695
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:13,359
Speaker 2: But do you mind clicking into that a little bit?

696
00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:16,120
Speaker 1: Was like, was there something that was making you feel

697
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:20,719
Speaker 1: maybe you don't deserve to exist in this space the

698
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:22,880
Speaker 1: way you are? Or it was kind of just a

699
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:23,800
Speaker 1: general feeling.

700
00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:26,759
Speaker 8: Well, it was just like a general feeling I had

701
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:30,239
Speaker 8: all the time of like not knowing like not feeling well,

702
00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:33,920
Speaker 8: and that is also underlying neurodivergence, you know, that was

703
00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:38,719
Speaker 8: underlying autism that I didn't know I had. And I

704
00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:41,440
Speaker 8: had been like had this like secret, but it was

705
00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:43,359
Speaker 8: like only with myself, and it was like all these

706
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:44,920
Speaker 8: things that I hid and I tried to cover up

707
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:47,880
Speaker 8: and make sure no one saw me doing and uh

708
00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:52,080
Speaker 8: so that was like my worst nightmare, was like anyone

709
00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:54,319
Speaker 8: knowing about any of that kind of stuff, but like

710
00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:56,040
Speaker 8: I didn't know it was autism.

711
00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:57,359
Speaker 7: I didn't have a name for it.

712
00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:02,799
Speaker 8: So the alcohol, it kind of like it took away

713
00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:07,880
Speaker 8: this anxiety of that part of me spilling out, you know,

714
00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:12,440
Speaker 8: so I had more freedom to exist however I wanted to,

715
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:13,520
Speaker 8: because I wasn't scared.

716
00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:15,920
Speaker 7: But it also made it easier.

717
00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:18,400
Speaker 8: So while it made it easier for me to be myself,

718
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:20,680
Speaker 8: it also made it easier for me to slip into

719
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:25,720
Speaker 8: like masks of characters because I wasn't afraid of somebody

720
00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:26,680
Speaker 8: calling my bluff.

721
00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:27,080
Speaker 5: Is that?

722
00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:30,040
Speaker 7: Yes, that makes sense, totally totally.

723
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:35,120
Speaker 8: So alcohol was like the best thing ever for me

724
00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:38,120
Speaker 8: because it I finally felt like I could enjoy light

725
00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:43,800
Speaker 8: because I wasn't scared of And it's like I always

726
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:47,320
Speaker 8: want to find like an emotion or like a direct

727
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:51,040
Speaker 8: thing to pinpoint what I'm afraid of. But I'm really

728
00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:53,359
Speaker 8: just not not even sure. I think it might at

729
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:55,680
Speaker 8: the end of the day be a lack of control

730
00:40:56,239 --> 00:40:59,960
Speaker 8: over how people could react, and like maybe people could react,

731
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:03,279
Speaker 8: and I'm thinking of so many different ways more than

732
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:06,640
Speaker 8: just rejection. I'm afraid of people like they could get

733
00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:08,439
Speaker 8: violent me. I don't know, like I could, I could

734
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:11,879
Speaker 8: go anywhere, like my brain could. I just I can

735
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:15,640
Speaker 8: panic from people's reactions. And so I had the alcohol

736
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:17,839
Speaker 8: took away a lot of that fear of like other

737
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:21,920
Speaker 8: people's reactions to me. So that was like in college,

738
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:24,800
Speaker 8: I really started like drinking, but I wasn't drinking every

739
00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:29,759
Speaker 8: single day. But now let's say like The Bachelor, I'm

740
00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:33,800
Speaker 8: twenty three, I'm I'm trying to get as much alcohol

741
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:38,000
Speaker 8: as I can. I have the best time of my life,

742
00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:43,040
Speaker 8: I get. I mean, I am petrified all the time

743
00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:45,800
Speaker 8: at all of these things I have to do after

744
00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:48,839
Speaker 8: the show, so like you know, these big events and things.

745
00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:51,960
Speaker 8: I remember going to Ellen and like I'm just drinking

746
00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:56,000
Speaker 8: my way through all because I'm so nervous. So and

747
00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:58,560
Speaker 8: I'm just so scared I'm gonna humiliate myself. So I know,

748
00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:01,720
Speaker 8: if I get drunk, then I'm to just be lucy.

749
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:03,640
Speaker 8: I'm going to be loose and I'll be able to

750
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:04,839
Speaker 8: be myself and it'll go great.

751
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:05,240
Speaker 3: Yeah.

752
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:07,359
Speaker 8: So I was like I need to have that alcohol though,

753
00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:08,800
Speaker 8: in order to be myself.

754
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:11,759
Speaker 7: Like that is what I truly I believed.

755
00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:15,360
Speaker 2: I was like to not to be afraid to be yourself.

756
00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:17,920
Speaker 7: Yes, yes, exactly.

757
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:20,320
Speaker 8: And it was like a mental thing in my I

758
00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:22,360
Speaker 8: was like a mental thing that I had though, like

759
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:25,480
Speaker 8: I'm not gonna be safe until I have the alcohol,

760
00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:27,640
Speaker 8: like you know, like I need that first.

761
00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:30,480
Speaker 1: So that was the rule in your head. Yep, you

762
00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:33,440
Speaker 1: had to drink in order to be okay, to be yourself.

763
00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:37,399
Speaker 8: I'm a I need to be able to like not care,

764
00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:39,040
Speaker 8: like I need to be able to relax.

765
00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:41,839
Speaker 7: I need to be able to be who I am.

766
00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:45,839
Speaker 8: But it's like I didn't understand, you know, like you

767
00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:47,080
Speaker 8: can't not be who you are.

768
00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:49,239
Speaker 7: But you know, that's besides the point.

769
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:53,359
Speaker 9: There was at some point you don't want to not

770
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:56,600
Speaker 9: be who you are, right, Like That's that's what's so

771
00:42:56,760 --> 00:42:59,480
Speaker 9: human about the story, is like you were dying to

772
00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:01,759
Speaker 9: just be able to be who you are and have

773
00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:03,520
Speaker 9: that be safe.

774
00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:08,239
Speaker 7: I can't stop drinking by myself really, like I'm like.

775
00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:11,959
Speaker 1: Dangerous because you would be so sick and nobody could

776
00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:13,160
Speaker 1: potentially be there.

777
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:15,640
Speaker 7: Yeah, and I didn't really know that.

778
00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:19,080
Speaker 8: I was like waiting for this opportune opportunity, this moment

779
00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:23,360
Speaker 8: to have someone with me because like I didn't know that,

780
00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:26,000
Speaker 8: but it was like all subconscious because uh, it's like

781
00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:27,920
Speaker 8: looking back on it, I can see why I did it.

782
00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:30,839
Speaker 8: But my friend Natasha stayed the night with me. This

783
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:34,479
Speaker 8: is like post Bachelor. The second time I went into Paris, Okay,

784
00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:37,440
Speaker 8: same time I went to Paradise, I was so drunk

785
00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:38,000
Speaker 8: during that.

786
00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:39,080
Speaker 10: I first of.

787
00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:41,600
Speaker 7: All, when I went in there, I went in with.

788
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:46,880
Speaker 8: Contact bottle Solutions or contact bottle, Contact solution, bottle, oh liquor,

789
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:49,920
Speaker 8: drank them all before I even got to the beach,

790
00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:52,600
Speaker 8: like in the hotel before I got Yeah. So then

791
00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:55,760
Speaker 8: I was waking up getting withdrawals, and I was like desperate.

792
00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:59,240
Speaker 8: They don't start serving drinks till till noon, So I

793
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:03,360
Speaker 8: was so desperate. I was drinking the mouthwash. Yeah, drinking

794
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:04,480
Speaker 8: the mouthwash.

795
00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:07,400
Speaker 1: I've been taking care of people with alcoholism for a

796
00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:09,840
Speaker 1: long time, and this is actually very common.

797
00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:13,040
Speaker 8: And I remember that I had heard someone say that

798
00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:14,759
Speaker 8: they knew someone that was an alcoholic because they were

799
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:18,800
Speaker 8: always drinking mouthwash in their like locker. And I was like, well,

800
00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:21,799
Speaker 8: maybe that'll get me through and it did. Yeah, and

801
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:23,839
Speaker 8: it did because I would have had withdrawals there in

802
00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:24,520
Speaker 8: Mexico League.

803
00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:26,000
Speaker 7: What would I have done? I mean, that would have

804
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:30,960
Speaker 7: been a whole thing. Woo, Well, they're filming. I do

805
00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:33,040
Speaker 7: not want my intervention while we're filming.

806
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:35,319
Speaker 2: I know, because you know they would have aired it too.

807
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:37,680
Speaker 7: Oh my god, it would have been so exploited.

808
00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:41,680
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it would have been so exploitive. So your

809
00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:43,399
Speaker 2: friend Natasha is spending the night.

810
00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:46,319
Speaker 8: Yes, So post the second time I go on back

811
00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:48,839
Speaker 8: to Paradise, she was on there with me. She's staying

812
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:50,759
Speaker 8: at my house. She lives in New York and she's

813
00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:52,920
Speaker 8: staying at my house in LA And we wake up

814
00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:56,439
Speaker 8: the next day and I'm like, I have to tell

815
00:44:56,440 --> 00:44:59,319
Speaker 8: you something, and she's like what, And I'm like, I

816
00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:01,719
Speaker 8: kind of have a super bad drinking problem and I

817
00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:03,279
Speaker 8: really want to stop. So I'm not going to drink

818
00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:05,759
Speaker 8: anymore after today, but can you please make sure that

819
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:06,319
Speaker 8: I don't die.

820
00:45:07,120 --> 00:45:08,960
Speaker 1: I was like, because I don't know what's gonna happen. Yeah,

821
00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:12,400
Speaker 1: So what was it about Natasha that made her safe

822
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:16,120
Speaker 1: enough for you to be able to take this plunge

823
00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:19,160
Speaker 1: with her? You know, I don't. I don't know.

824
00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:19,839
Speaker 3: She's just.

825
00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:25,680
Speaker 7: I guess she's just who she is.

826
00:45:25,719 --> 00:45:28,319
Speaker 8: Like we had, we had gone through a lot of

827
00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:31,120
Speaker 8: you know, stuff together, like being on reality TV together.

828
00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:36,640
Speaker 8: She she's she's like a nurturing kind of person too,

829
00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:39,680
Speaker 8: Like she's just here's the thing. I think that it's

830
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:44,080
Speaker 8: because I know, I knew that she is the kind

831
00:45:44,080 --> 00:45:46,040
Speaker 8: of person that wouldn't like left me hanging, Like I

832
00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:48,880
Speaker 8: knew that she was the kind of person who would,

833
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:52,440
Speaker 8: like subconsciously I knew this because I I wouldn't just

834
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:54,400
Speaker 8: like assume you know, I want to assume this, so

835
00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:59,560
Speaker 8: I uh set her up. But it's like she's the

836
00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:04,600
Speaker 8: kind of person who would help someone and truly help them,

837
00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:09,040
Speaker 8: not just like half help, like like actually be in

838
00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:11,800
Speaker 8: the moment and care about them, like you know, I

839
00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:14,759
Speaker 8: just seen probably because i'd seen her, I've seen her

840
00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:16,919
Speaker 8: talk about her friends and the people she cares about,

841
00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:19,880
Speaker 8: and how she knows so much about so many of

842
00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:21,560
Speaker 8: her friends and stuff like that.

843
00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:22,759
Speaker 7: Just I guess I.

844
00:46:22,719 --> 00:46:28,280
Speaker 8: Had made a bunch of subconscious observations about her character,

845
00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:34,239
Speaker 8: and I knew, like, she's she's gonna she'll take care

846
00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:34,440
Speaker 8: of me.

847
00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:44,680
Speaker 5: I am Annum Marie Cox. I am a journalist and

848
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:51,600
Speaker 5: writer and podcaster, and I feel comfortable putting those things first,

849
00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:55,200
Speaker 5: even though they're what I do for money, because they

850
00:46:55,200 --> 00:46:56,960
Speaker 5: are very essential to who I am.

851
00:46:57,280 --> 00:47:00,000
Speaker 2: Oh okay, I want to click into that for sure.

852
00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:07,880
Speaker 5: I love stories. I love hearing other people's stories. I

853
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:09,120
Speaker 5: love telling my story.

854
00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:11,160
Speaker 6: I love.

855
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:19,160
Speaker 5: My favorite thing about teaching. I also teach about both

856
00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:23,480
Speaker 5: teaching and journalism. This is gonna be another parallel to psychology.

857
00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:27,720
Speaker 5: Is when you see that you've helped someone understand something,

858
00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:35,160
Speaker 5: Like that light in a student's eyes, when you've helped

859
00:47:35,239 --> 00:47:39,640
Speaker 5: them kind of like get to that clique and they

860
00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:47,640
Speaker 5: understand something they didn't understand before is the most satisfying

861
00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:50,520
Speaker 5: thing that there is. Second to that same feeling can

862
00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:53,880
Speaker 5: come from writing. Sometimes it doesn't come from like in writing.

863
00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:56,000
Speaker 5: It's usually when I know that I've hit it, but

864
00:47:56,040 --> 00:47:58,719
Speaker 5: it's a more interior thing because I haven't had feedback yet.

865
00:47:58,880 --> 00:48:02,920
Speaker 5: But like when I know of like yeah, I.

866
00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:05,239
Speaker 2: Was almost coming back to your second thing.

867
00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:09,919
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, I can imagine seeing that light

868
00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:15,160
Speaker 1: is also part of what's rewarding about telling your story,

869
00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:18,640
Speaker 1: and I want to start there because yep, this is

870
00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:23,600
Speaker 1: un addiction the podcast, and one of our main goals

871
00:48:24,520 --> 00:48:28,160
Speaker 1: is to uncover the conversations we need to be having.

872
00:48:28,719 --> 00:48:33,360
Speaker 1: People can be so afraid because of stigma, because of

873
00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:35,359
Speaker 1: the things we think we know. People can be so

874
00:48:35,560 --> 00:48:39,719
Speaker 1: afraid of telling their story. But the freedom and the

875
00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:44,120
Speaker 1: joy of telling your story and seeing your story turn

876
00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:49,719
Speaker 1: the light on behind someone else's eyes, I think is incredible.

877
00:48:50,560 --> 00:48:52,959
Speaker 1: Is that part of what you experience when you tell your.

878
00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:55,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, And it reminds me, you know, before I am

879
00:48:55,040 --> 00:48:57,600
Speaker 5: any of those things. I am an alcoholic in recovery,

880
00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:04,560
Speaker 5: and recovery is the center, or has to be, even

881
00:49:04,600 --> 00:49:07,360
Speaker 5: when I don't realize it's the center of my life,

882
00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:10,919
Speaker 5: even when my focus has shifted, if that makes any

883
00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:13,640
Speaker 5: sense at all, It is the center of my life

884
00:49:14,440 --> 00:49:16,920
Speaker 5: because without my sobriety, I in my connection to my

885
00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:20,960
Speaker 5: higher power, which I have a higher power, It's been

886
00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:25,800
Speaker 5: helpful to me. I know different people, different things, but

887
00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:32,839
Speaker 5: I believe that I'm having my spiritual connection. My spiritual

888
00:49:32,840 --> 00:49:39,200
Speaker 5: well being is the center of who I am and

889
00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:41,160
Speaker 5: is the thing that allows me to do all the

890
00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:46,480
Speaker 5: other things because without it, you know, I lived for

891
00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:51,840
Speaker 5: thirty eight years vamping, you know, like I guess, or

892
00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:54,799
Speaker 5: you could put it in psychological terms like survival mode,

893
00:49:55,040 --> 00:49:57,759
Speaker 5: just trying to get by. Yeah, just like trying to

894
00:49:58,520 --> 00:50:00,839
Speaker 5: I didn't get a lot of good instruction and as

895
00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:05,040
Speaker 5: a kid, you know, a lot of good patterns, so

896
00:50:05,200 --> 00:50:12,799
Speaker 5: I was just like you know, and perfectionism and overachieving

897
00:50:13,640 --> 00:50:17,120
Speaker 5: we're a big part of that. And drinking and using

898
00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:19,239
Speaker 5: drugs to some extent also a big part of that.

899
00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:27,560
Speaker 5: And that was not sustainable for me. And I also,

900
00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:30,680
Speaker 5: uh have bipolar disorder.

901
00:50:31,960 --> 00:50:37,040
Speaker 1: And you know it's bad and also or bipolar disorder.

902
00:50:36,719 --> 00:50:41,000
Speaker 5: Type disorder to type two. Okay, And that's a part

903
00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:44,560
Speaker 5: of my story. Uh, in fact, can talk more about it.

904
00:50:44,560 --> 00:50:45,920
Speaker 5: It's actually a bigger part of my story than I

905
00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:51,160
Speaker 5: kind of realized. My bottom as an alcoholic was a

906
00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:57,080
Speaker 5: pretty serious suicide attempt. And that is the thing that

907
00:50:57,160 --> 00:51:01,080
Speaker 5: reminds me that less I have my spirit virtual house

908
00:51:01,200 --> 00:51:04,480
Speaker 5: in order, as they say in AA or, unless I

909
00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:08,520
Speaker 5: maintain my connection to my higher power or spirit of

910
00:51:08,560 --> 00:51:13,960
Speaker 5: the universe or higher self or whatever term you want

911
00:51:13,960 --> 00:51:19,279
Speaker 5: to use. I will die.

912
00:51:21,080 --> 00:51:24,240
Speaker 2: The stakes are the highest.

913
00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:24,360
Speaker 5: One way or another.

914
00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:25,000
Speaker 2: Yep.

915
00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:27,839
Speaker 5: I either drink myself to death like my mom did,

916
00:51:29,040 --> 00:51:33,560
Speaker 5: or I will become so unhappy and desperate and sad

917
00:51:34,040 --> 00:51:36,920
Speaker 5: and lonely and hopeless I might take my own life.

918
00:51:37,120 --> 00:51:40,479
Speaker 5: So it's a really good I sometimes say I feel

919
00:51:40,480 --> 00:51:42,759
Speaker 5: sorry for normal folks because they don't have to have

920
00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:47,120
Speaker 5: a spiritual life. They can just like get along without it.

921
00:51:48,480 --> 00:51:54,840
Speaker 5: Then I cannot. My life depends on having some sort

922
00:51:54,920 --> 00:52:00,160
Speaker 5: of space in my life for connection to something later

923
00:52:00,280 --> 00:52:03,439
Speaker 5: than myself. And maybe that gets us to talking about

924
00:52:03,440 --> 00:52:08,359
Speaker 5: bipolar disorder. So I've been sober for twelve years.

925
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:12,400
Speaker 11: Congratulation twelve years and six months and two days, Okay,

926
00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:15,600
Speaker 11: because my belly button birthday is six months away from

927
00:52:15,640 --> 00:52:18,120
Speaker 11: my sobriety date, so I am always very aware of

928
00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:20,279
Speaker 11: the six month, the half mark.

929
00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:24,520
Speaker 5: And so whatever I loved AA, I stayed sober. So

930
00:52:24,560 --> 00:52:26,279
Speaker 5: that was That's sort of what happened, is I did

931
00:52:26,280 --> 00:52:28,040
Speaker 5: what they said, and I stayed sober, and I didn't

932
00:52:28,040 --> 00:52:31,040
Speaker 5: hate myself, so I kept doing it. And also AA

933
00:52:31,120 --> 00:52:36,320
Speaker 5: is you know for again type a person I liked

934
00:52:36,840 --> 00:52:40,680
Speaker 5: knowing that I was doing something extra, Like I'm an

935
00:52:40,680 --> 00:52:45,600
Speaker 5: extra person, right, So for me like AA, like I

936
00:52:45,640 --> 00:52:48,440
Speaker 5: always go to meetings, I always have searge position, I

937
00:52:48,480 --> 00:52:51,839
Speaker 5: always have a sponsor, like I do the deal, as

938
00:52:51,840 --> 00:52:54,919
Speaker 5: they say, And you know, part of that is because

939
00:52:54,960 --> 00:52:56,879
Speaker 5: I do believe that my life is on the line.

940
00:52:56,920 --> 00:52:59,360
Speaker 5: And part of that, I think over the years became

941
00:53:00,760 --> 00:53:03,120
Speaker 5: I started to think of sobriety as a thing that

942
00:53:03,239 --> 00:53:06,319
Speaker 5: I did, as a thing I was rewarded with for

943
00:53:06,400 --> 00:53:07,600
Speaker 5: doing AA perfectly.

944
00:53:08,560 --> 00:53:12,960
Speaker 1: Even twelve years later, you're still working your AA program,

945
00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:15,759
Speaker 1: And the question I wanted to ask was are you

946
00:53:16,040 --> 00:53:17,399
Speaker 1: doing it perfectly?

947
00:53:17,719 --> 00:53:20,040
Speaker 5: So here's where you know, I said all the right

948
00:53:20,040 --> 00:53:21,879
Speaker 5: things and meetings there, but for the grace of God

949
00:53:21,920 --> 00:53:24,720
Speaker 5: go I like, you know, one day at a time.

950
00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:27,520
Speaker 5: And it's not like I didn't believe those things, but

951
00:53:27,640 --> 00:53:31,680
Speaker 5: I do believe that. Like when someone would share that

952
00:53:31,719 --> 00:53:33,799
Speaker 5: they relapsed, there was a part of me that was like, well,

953
00:53:33,840 --> 00:53:35,759
Speaker 5: you're not working as good a program as I am,

954
00:53:36,160 --> 00:53:43,879
Speaker 5: you know, Like, sorry, that's terrible. I'm an alcoholic too, right,

955
00:53:44,239 --> 00:53:49,279
Speaker 5: And then last month I had a manic episode, the

956
00:53:49,280 --> 00:53:52,000
Speaker 5: first one I've had since I got sober, and I

957
00:53:52,040 --> 00:53:55,560
Speaker 5: will not get into why it happened, because part of

958
00:53:55,600 --> 00:53:58,480
Speaker 5: what I've come to realize is it doesn't matter I

959
00:53:58,520 --> 00:54:01,920
Speaker 5: have suspicions, it has to do with them and you

960
00:54:01,920 --> 00:54:05,520
Speaker 5: know other stuff. But what I had to come am

961
00:54:05,520 --> 00:54:09,640
Speaker 5: coming to accept is I thought about my mental illness

962
00:54:09,719 --> 00:54:11,239
Speaker 5: kind of the same way, which is that if I

963
00:54:11,560 --> 00:54:14,640
Speaker 5: take care of it perfectly, then I will never have

964
00:54:14,680 --> 00:54:17,280
Speaker 5: another manic episode. I'm kind of like, I still get depressed,

965
00:54:17,280 --> 00:54:20,360
Speaker 5: but and that, as you know, like depression is always

966
00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:23,719
Speaker 5: a bigger problem for people with bipolar disorder. Yeah, and

967
00:54:23,760 --> 00:54:27,160
Speaker 5: I've had treatment resistant depression, but I haven't had a

968
00:54:27,160 --> 00:54:29,080
Speaker 5: manic but I haven't had a full manic episode. I've

969
00:54:29,080 --> 00:54:30,480
Speaker 5: had times where I felt.

970
00:54:30,239 --> 00:54:32,440
Speaker 1: Walking up the curve, but not all the way they are.

971
00:54:32,920 --> 00:54:35,600
Speaker 5: Yeah, but I always also know what to do, like

972
00:54:35,719 --> 00:54:40,279
Speaker 5: exercise more, eat right, sleep, you know, meditate. And I

973
00:54:40,320 --> 00:54:42,960
Speaker 5: really thought I was managing my bipolar disorder and kind

974
00:54:42,960 --> 00:54:46,839
Speaker 5: of the same way I was managing my addiction, which

975
00:54:46,880 --> 00:54:47,919
Speaker 5: is like, all.

976
00:54:47,880 --> 00:54:51,160
Speaker 1: Right, perfectly, good job, you know, Yeah, way to.

977
00:54:51,160 --> 00:54:54,239
Speaker 5: Go, Like you're gonna be set, You're never going to relapse,

978
00:54:54,800 --> 00:54:57,080
Speaker 5: You're never going to have a manic manic episode.

979
00:54:57,440 --> 00:54:59,960
Speaker 1: And then I had one and can you just tell

980
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:02,920
Speaker 1: all the listeners. Everyone may not know what it's like

981
00:55:02,960 --> 00:55:06,080
Speaker 1: to have a manic episode, if you're if you're comfortable

982
00:55:06,120 --> 00:55:07,680
Speaker 1: with it, what it was like for you.

983
00:55:08,040 --> 00:55:09,640
Speaker 5: Oh god, it's hard to describe.

984
00:55:09,760 --> 00:55:11,600
Speaker 1: And if you're not comfortable.

985
00:55:11,360 --> 00:55:13,959
Speaker 5: I can try because I want people to know it's

986
00:55:14,280 --> 00:55:17,280
Speaker 5: you are not yourself. It is and you can interject

987
00:55:18,000 --> 00:55:21,160
Speaker 5: with your knowledge. But it's kind of like being psychotic.

988
00:55:22,000 --> 00:55:27,120
Speaker 5: It's it is not my personality. It is a version

989
00:55:27,320 --> 00:55:27,719
Speaker 5: of me.

990
00:55:28,360 --> 00:55:29,279
Speaker 2: But even I.

991
00:55:29,560 --> 00:55:33,040
Speaker 5: Found myself saying and doing things that like I was

992
00:55:33,120 --> 00:55:40,080
Speaker 5: angrier and more self pitying and more impulsive and like bolder,

993
00:55:41,080 --> 00:55:43,160
Speaker 5: and I inside there was a part of me that

994
00:55:43,239 --> 00:55:45,040
Speaker 5: was like, what the fuck, Like what is going on?

995
00:55:45,239 --> 00:55:45,520
Speaker 1: Huh?

996
00:55:45,960 --> 00:55:47,000
Speaker 5: Like this is not you?

997
00:55:47,800 --> 00:55:50,799
Speaker 1: Like and other people also noticed this is not you,

998
00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:51,680
Speaker 1: like well, yeah.

999
00:55:51,560 --> 00:55:52,920
Speaker 5: Because it's part of it. I actually it was a

1000
00:55:52,960 --> 00:55:55,440
Speaker 5: more extreme manic episode than I've ever had. I think

1001
00:55:55,480 --> 00:55:58,960
Speaker 5: because I wasn't drinking. I think because there was no.

1002
00:55:58,960 --> 00:56:01,440
Speaker 1: Alcohol to like I would just put a lid on it,

1003
00:56:01,520 --> 00:56:01,839
Speaker 1: put a.

1004
00:56:01,800 --> 00:56:05,480
Speaker 5: Lid on it, so like I had times my thoughts

1005
00:56:05,480 --> 00:56:10,080
Speaker 5: were racing so fast I could barely speak like and

1006
00:56:10,120 --> 00:56:12,960
Speaker 5: that also had never really happened to that degree, and

1007
00:56:13,080 --> 00:56:16,319
Speaker 5: it is it is. I remember having kind of a

1008
00:56:16,400 --> 00:56:19,040
Speaker 5: thought within a thought, which is that if this doesn't stop,

1009
00:56:19,120 --> 00:56:23,239
Speaker 5: I will be creepy, I will lose it, I will

1010
00:56:23,280 --> 00:56:27,120
Speaker 5: lose my mind, I will never come back, I will

1011
00:56:27,160 --> 00:56:30,520
Speaker 5: not be able to function in the world. And like,

1012
00:56:30,560 --> 00:56:32,319
Speaker 5: there are parts of it, there are parts of it

1013
00:56:32,360 --> 00:56:36,239
Speaker 5: I don't remember, you know, I kind of lost like

1014
00:56:36,280 --> 00:56:37,879
Speaker 5: a week and a half, two weeks in my life.

1015
00:56:38,120 --> 00:56:41,840
Speaker 5: I hurt some people with my actions just not being

1016
00:56:41,920 --> 00:56:44,400
Speaker 5: people trying to help and be pushing away and like

1017
00:56:44,600 --> 00:56:49,640
Speaker 5: being not graceful about it and then being self like

1018
00:56:49,640 --> 00:56:52,520
Speaker 5: asking for help and rejecting it. I think for a

1019
00:56:52,560 --> 00:56:55,760
Speaker 5: manic episode, I handled it kind of the best case

1020
00:56:56,800 --> 00:57:02,960
Speaker 5: you can. But it happened, and I was powerless to

1021
00:57:03,080 --> 00:57:08,759
Speaker 5: not have it happen. And I'm realizing, you know a

1022
00:57:08,760 --> 00:57:10,960
Speaker 5: few things. One of them is that I thought I

1023
00:57:11,080 --> 00:57:15,560
Speaker 5: had accepted my diagnoses in the same way that I'd

1024
00:57:15,560 --> 00:57:19,600
Speaker 5: accepted my addiction and alcoholism, and that you know, it's

1025
00:57:19,640 --> 00:57:22,480
Speaker 5: just a part of me, it's who I am. Not ashamed. Yeah,

1026
00:57:22,560 --> 00:57:25,640
Speaker 5: I don't think i'd fully like accepted.

1027
00:57:26,400 --> 00:57:29,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, because after you had the manic episode, did you

1028
00:57:29,600 --> 00:57:33,880
Speaker 1: feel shame or what brought you to this, like realization

1029
00:57:34,040 --> 00:57:35,920
Speaker 1: I have not actually accepted this.

1030
00:57:36,440 --> 00:57:38,160
Speaker 5: I felt a lot of shame, and.

1031
00:57:37,880 --> 00:57:39,360
Speaker 1: As an illness I have.

1032
00:57:39,640 --> 00:57:44,960
Speaker 10: Yeah, I felt a lot of shame, and you know,

1033
00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:49,000
Speaker 10: the damage I did to my relationships and it for

1034
00:57:49,120 --> 00:57:52,000
Speaker 10: me has underscored well.

1035
00:57:52,040 --> 00:57:54,200
Speaker 5: For one thing, it felt a lot like a relapse.

1036
00:57:54,200 --> 00:57:56,280
Speaker 5: I'm treating it a little bit like a relapse in

1037
00:57:56,280 --> 00:57:57,680
Speaker 5: the way that I think about it and the way

1038
00:57:57,680 --> 00:57:59,800
Speaker 5: that I'm handling it. Like I've kind of been going

1039
00:57:59,840 --> 00:58:03,240
Speaker 5: to meetings. I've been drawing on the resources of my

1040
00:58:03,320 --> 00:58:06,280
Speaker 5: friends who are also sober and people who been sober

1041
00:58:06,280 --> 00:58:09,560
Speaker 5: longer than I am. And much like with a relapse,

1042
00:58:10,240 --> 00:58:13,160
Speaker 5: I am trying to not go around on an apology

1043
00:58:13,200 --> 00:58:19,360
Speaker 5: tour and instead just get better. But that's what people

1044
00:58:19,440 --> 00:58:22,840
Speaker 5: want for me. As much as I would like to

1045
00:58:22,840 --> 00:58:25,600
Speaker 5: be forgiven, that's what I would like. I would like

1046
00:58:25,640 --> 00:58:29,680
Speaker 5: people to tell me it's okay, we understand, but I

1047
00:58:29,720 --> 00:58:30,480
Speaker 5: can't control that.

1048
00:58:30,840 --> 00:58:33,480
Speaker 10: The idea of retemption just it's yours.

1049
00:58:33,640 --> 00:58:34,760
Speaker 1: Have it here.

1050
00:58:36,960 --> 00:58:39,600
Speaker 5: You don't have to do anything. You are forgiven.

1051
00:58:40,360 --> 00:58:42,040
Speaker 1: You don't have to be ben't have to be.

1052
00:58:42,000 --> 00:58:44,080
Speaker 5: Perfect, you don't have to do anything you don't have

1053
00:58:44,120 --> 00:58:47,560
Speaker 5: to say anything. I have just given you. The universe

1054
00:58:47,560 --> 00:58:53,840
Speaker 5: has just presented you with this eternal forgiveness, unconditional love,

1055
00:58:55,000 --> 00:58:56,760
Speaker 5: and it is yours to accept.

1056
00:58:58,360 --> 00:59:01,960
Speaker 12: I grew up in household with a father who was

1057
00:59:02,800 --> 00:59:06,320
Speaker 12: an alcoholic, and I think I bring that up in

1058
00:59:06,320 --> 00:59:08,919
Speaker 12: this space for a couple of reasons. One, obviously, there

1059
00:59:09,040 --> 00:59:10,920
Speaker 12: is some tinge of the fact that we're going to

1060
00:59:11,000 --> 00:59:14,280
Speaker 12: be talking about substance use in this in this space.

1061
00:59:14,080 --> 00:59:14,240
Speaker 11: But.

1062
00:59:15,800 --> 00:59:20,439
Speaker 12: I think I more want to sort of represent the

1063
00:59:20,520 --> 00:59:23,680
Speaker 12: lack of tools my father was given growing up to

1064
00:59:23,880 --> 00:59:28,560
Speaker 12: deal with the amount of pain and trauma that he

1065
00:59:28,640 --> 00:59:32,800
Speaker 12: went through, you know, coming from the South during the

1066
00:59:32,800 --> 00:59:37,360
Speaker 12: Great Migration, his father dying when he was ten, and

1067
00:59:37,440 --> 00:59:40,280
Speaker 12: his mother doing whatever it took to you know, keep

1068
00:59:40,320 --> 00:59:44,840
Speaker 12: the family going. He was at South Carolina State University

1069
00:59:45,160 --> 00:59:50,160
Speaker 12: in nineteen sixty eight when there was an uprising of

1070
00:59:50,200 --> 00:59:54,760
Speaker 12: students and a murder by the local police of three

1071
00:59:54,800 --> 00:59:57,840
Speaker 12: individuals on that campus, one of which was his close friend.

1072
00:59:59,320 --> 01:00:04,120
Speaker 12: And then he was drafted into Vietnam and so and

1073
01:00:04,160 --> 01:00:08,280
Speaker 12: while he did not see direct combat, just being a

1074
01:00:08,400 --> 01:00:11,640
Speaker 12: black man drafted into the military in nineteen sixty eight

1075
01:00:12,960 --> 01:00:17,680
Speaker 12: and all that that brought with it. You know, I'm

1076
01:00:17,720 --> 01:00:21,919
Speaker 12: not surprised that that's what he leaned on, because that's

1077
01:00:21,960 --> 01:00:25,120
Speaker 12: what people leaned on. You lean on the crutch that

1078
01:00:25,160 --> 01:00:29,240
Speaker 12: you're given, and sometimes that crutch holds you while you heal,

1079
01:00:29,360 --> 01:00:33,680
Speaker 12: and sometimes that crutch becomes a permanent part of your

1080
01:00:33,720 --> 01:00:38,160
Speaker 12: existence until it breaks. Right, and his crutch broke when

1081
01:00:38,160 --> 01:00:42,800
Speaker 12: I was sixteen, and that's when he was lucky enough

1082
01:00:43,640 --> 01:00:47,160
Speaker 12: to get into recovery, wise enough, lucky enough, blessed enough,

1083
01:00:49,040 --> 01:00:53,960
Speaker 12: and unfortunately not in enough time for me to be

1084
01:00:54,000 --> 01:00:57,680
Speaker 12: able to learn from his recovery, And so it became

1085
01:00:57,760 --> 01:01:00,480
Speaker 12: a part of who I was. Also, even though I,

1086
01:01:00,640 --> 01:01:04,440
Speaker 12: you know, lived in a nicer time, there was a

1087
01:01:04,480 --> 01:01:08,880
Speaker 12: lot of pain and strife and racial trauma based on

1088
01:01:08,920 --> 01:01:11,680
Speaker 12: where I grew up, like things from my childhood that

1089
01:01:11,720 --> 01:01:16,880
Speaker 12: I didn't have a language to explain, and too undiagnosed

1090
01:01:16,880 --> 01:01:21,440
Speaker 12: mental illnesses that also as a part of the upbringing

1091
01:01:21,520 --> 01:01:24,880
Speaker 12: up two very poor parents. You know, you don't really

1092
01:01:24,960 --> 01:01:26,760
Speaker 12: have time for emotion. You got to go to work,

1093
01:01:26,840 --> 01:01:28,880
Speaker 12: da da da da da. And if you are dealing

1094
01:01:28,880 --> 01:01:30,720
Speaker 12: with something, you're not dealing with it in a way

1095
01:01:30,760 --> 01:01:31,880
Speaker 12: that other people see it.

1096
01:01:32,200 --> 01:01:34,920
Speaker 2: Right, So, and the cultural underpinnings.

1097
01:01:35,000 --> 01:01:38,280
Speaker 1: A lot of times people are not open to seeing that,

1098
01:01:38,680 --> 01:01:41,600
Speaker 1: or the stigma even prevents the ability to try to

1099
01:01:41,680 --> 01:01:42,600
Speaker 1: open up about it.

1100
01:01:43,000 --> 01:01:46,840
Speaker 12: Yeah, and I think that's I think shame for sure, right.

1101
01:01:46,920 --> 01:01:50,560
Speaker 12: And when we think about the role of stigma, it

1102
01:01:50,600 --> 01:01:56,800
Speaker 12: is sort of the manifestation of shame, right, And it's

1103
01:01:56,880 --> 01:02:00,520
Speaker 12: in all aspects of our life, unfortunately, the desire to

1104
01:02:00,560 --> 01:02:04,760
Speaker 12: not be embarrassed or called out or seen as weak

1105
01:02:04,880 --> 01:02:09,080
Speaker 12: or whatever it is. And yeah, and you have a

1106
01:02:09,200 --> 01:02:13,480
Speaker 12: very very prideful people who have gone through and survived

1107
01:02:13,520 --> 01:02:17,400
Speaker 12: so much, and surviving being a part of our identity,

1108
01:02:17,520 --> 01:02:21,440
Speaker 12: it seems like you should be able to just figure

1109
01:02:21,480 --> 01:02:25,240
Speaker 12: it out or in our case, give it up to Jesus.

1110
01:02:25,440 --> 01:02:30,439
Speaker 12: It's all played a part though, because even now, when

1111
01:02:30,440 --> 01:02:32,400
Speaker 12: I think about what I do, a lot of that

1112
01:02:32,520 --> 01:02:37,760
Speaker 12: performer in me came from church, right, seeing how people

1113
01:02:37,840 --> 01:02:43,720
Speaker 12: were able to invoke emotion and feeling using parables and

1114
01:02:43,800 --> 01:02:48,280
Speaker 12: stories and attaching them to moral lessons. And you know,

1115
01:02:48,360 --> 01:02:51,080
Speaker 12: when it was done really, really good, all of those

1116
01:02:51,120 --> 01:02:54,240
Speaker 12: things start to sink into who you are. And I think,

1117
01:02:54,320 --> 01:02:57,960
Speaker 12: you know, my rebellion against family also ended up being

1118
01:02:58,000 --> 01:03:03,000
Speaker 12: a rebellion against organized religion and I got into spoken

1119
01:03:03,000 --> 01:03:07,960
Speaker 12: with poetry, and that is his own church of sorts,

1120
01:03:08,320 --> 01:03:12,400
Speaker 12: you know, the whole idea, The same thing is happening,

1121
01:03:12,440 --> 01:03:16,400
Speaker 12: different morals, different rules, different values being displayed, but we're

1122
01:03:16,440 --> 01:03:19,760
Speaker 12: trying to invoke, We're trying to move people, we're trying

1123
01:03:19,800 --> 01:03:24,720
Speaker 12: to connect, and we are naming ourselves and we're naming

1124
01:03:24,760 --> 01:03:27,120
Speaker 12: our feelings, and we're naming the things around us in

1125
01:03:27,160 --> 01:03:29,840
Speaker 12: the world that we want to see changed or better.

1126
01:03:30,960 --> 01:03:34,280
Speaker 12: And I've spent many, many, many many years and those

1127
01:03:34,280 --> 01:03:37,480
Speaker 12: spaces at open mics, hosting and all of that sort

1128
01:03:37,520 --> 01:03:44,120
Speaker 12: of culminating with a life dedicated to youth development into

1129
01:03:44,720 --> 01:03:47,760
Speaker 12: this space where I am right now, which is as

1130
01:03:47,800 --> 01:03:52,040
Speaker 12: someone who is still cultivating his own ability to tell story,

1131
01:03:52,120 --> 01:03:57,440
Speaker 12: but more concerned about creating a world where other people

1132
01:03:57,440 --> 01:04:00,760
Speaker 12: can use story in the same way that I have.

1133
01:04:01,440 --> 01:04:07,320
Speaker 12: As far as the intentional reflection, the filling in of

1134
01:04:07,360 --> 01:04:12,120
Speaker 12: our past so that we feel less and chaos about

1135
01:04:12,120 --> 01:04:16,560
Speaker 12: our future. Also, maybe above all of that is the

1136
01:04:16,560 --> 01:04:20,520
Speaker 12: realization that while there are things that happen to us,

1137
01:04:21,120 --> 01:04:25,200
Speaker 12: that ultimately we have the opportunity to be the primary

1138
01:04:25,240 --> 01:04:29,960
Speaker 12: authors of our own character and our own story based

1139
01:04:29,960 --> 01:04:33,160
Speaker 12: on how we teach ourselves to respond to the things

1140
01:04:33,200 --> 01:04:36,120
Speaker 12: that happen to us. When people ask me, and you know,

1141
01:04:36,120 --> 01:04:39,040
Speaker 12: people ask me flippantly sometimes back in the day, especially

1142
01:04:39,080 --> 01:04:42,120
Speaker 12: when I was out really a disciple of spoken word

1143
01:04:42,160 --> 01:04:45,280
Speaker 12: poetry and poetry workshops, like does the world really need

1144
01:04:45,360 --> 01:04:49,560
Speaker 12: more poets? And my response to folks is, I'm not

1145
01:04:49,640 --> 01:04:52,640
Speaker 12: crying to create a world of more poets. I'm trying

1146
01:04:52,680 --> 01:04:57,200
Speaker 12: to create more poetically minded people, right, Because when I

1147
01:04:57,240 --> 01:05:02,320
Speaker 12: sit back and I write, I I practice self forgiveness.

1148
01:05:02,720 --> 01:05:07,600
Speaker 12: I practice reflection, and then I practice the ability to

1149
01:05:07,720 --> 01:05:11,640
Speaker 12: pull reason from the things that have happened to me

1150
01:05:12,000 --> 01:05:14,760
Speaker 12: so that I get to choose what I learned from

1151
01:05:14,760 --> 01:05:20,680
Speaker 12: this lesson from this thing that happened. One of the

1152
01:05:20,680 --> 01:05:22,800
Speaker 12: things that have always one of the quotes that I

1153
01:05:22,840 --> 01:05:26,200
Speaker 12: think has always bothered me that the platitudes that people

1154
01:05:26,240 --> 01:05:29,360
Speaker 12: throw around is that everything happens for a reason. And

1155
01:05:29,800 --> 01:05:32,120
Speaker 12: that's great if that's what you believe, and if you

1156
01:05:32,160 --> 01:05:35,600
Speaker 12: are able to stop at that as you're like, all

1157
01:05:35,640 --> 01:05:37,800
Speaker 12: you need to be satisfied in the universe is to

1158
01:05:37,840 --> 01:05:39,200
Speaker 12: know that things happen for a reason.

1159
01:05:40,200 --> 01:05:40,520
Speaker 11: Cool.

1160
01:05:40,720 --> 01:05:42,760
Speaker 12: I don't think most people are like that, and I

1161
01:05:42,800 --> 01:05:46,200
Speaker 12: feel that most people walk away from that statement feeling unsatisfied.

1162
01:05:46,720 --> 01:05:50,800
Speaker 12: And so when I say poetically minded people, people who

1163
01:05:50,800 --> 01:05:54,840
Speaker 12: can reflect and think forward, it's whether or not you

1164
01:05:54,920 --> 01:05:58,280
Speaker 12: believe things happen for a reason. It is our responsibility

1165
01:05:58,320 --> 01:06:00,720
Speaker 12: to pull reason from the things that happen. Yeah, And

1166
01:06:00,720 --> 01:06:04,640
Speaker 12: that's how we start to understand that I have a

1167
01:06:05,360 --> 01:06:07,680
Speaker 12: place in things that happened to me, even if I

1168
01:06:07,720 --> 01:06:10,120
Speaker 12: didn't want those things to happen to me. Right, like

1169
01:06:10,760 --> 01:06:16,080
Speaker 12: the moment the initial thing happens. If I'm practicing mindfulness,

1170
01:06:16,120 --> 01:06:22,400
Speaker 12: if I'm practicing intention, if I'm practicing emotional maturity, I

1171
01:06:22,560 --> 01:06:26,200
Speaker 12: am giving myself the ability to respond in a way

1172
01:06:26,280 --> 01:06:30,200
Speaker 12: that is in sync with the best version of myself

1173
01:06:30,280 --> 01:06:31,880
Speaker 12: or the version of myself that I want to be

1174
01:06:32,320 --> 01:06:35,720
Speaker 12: when there aren't stressful things happening. Right, I feel that

1175
01:06:35,880 --> 01:06:40,520
Speaker 12: when people are looking for the motivation to change, or

1176
01:06:41,320 --> 01:06:45,600
Speaker 12: the courage to face something difficult, or the ability to

1177
01:06:45,680 --> 01:06:51,080
Speaker 12: work through a trauma or mental health issue, the sound

1178
01:06:51,160 --> 01:06:56,920
Speaker 12: bidiness of the world throws out certain things without making

1179
01:06:56,960 --> 01:07:02,480
Speaker 12: them tangible. Right. And so know, coming from a church background,

1180
01:07:02,640 --> 01:07:06,720
Speaker 12: it tends to stop with give it to Jesus. Everything

1181
01:07:06,760 --> 01:07:10,240
Speaker 12: happens for a reason. God has a plan great I

1182
01:07:10,240 --> 01:07:14,439
Speaker 12: don't want to isolate those people. The understanding, the acceptance

1183
01:07:14,720 --> 01:07:18,880
Speaker 12: of the hardship of existence is only half. It's like

1184
01:07:18,960 --> 01:07:24,720
Speaker 12: saying recovery is equal to sobriety, and it's not right.

1185
01:07:24,840 --> 01:07:28,040
Speaker 12: Like the sobriety is a tool in my recovery. My

1186
01:07:28,200 --> 01:07:32,200
Speaker 12: recovery is trying to live every day the best version

1187
01:07:32,200 --> 01:07:34,120
Speaker 12: of myself, and the best version of myself needs to

1188
01:07:34,160 --> 01:07:36,360
Speaker 12: live and love and love and risk and be able

1189
01:07:36,360 --> 01:07:38,440
Speaker 12: to get out in the world and connect again and

1190
01:07:38,480 --> 01:07:42,960
Speaker 12: get over the things that I thought I needed the

1191
01:07:42,960 --> 01:07:46,240
Speaker 12: crutch of the substance to deal with.

1192
01:07:46,680 --> 01:07:47,600
Speaker 3: But if I just.

1193
01:07:48,040 --> 01:07:53,880
Speaker 12: Am dealing in the unnegative space right of not doing

1194
01:07:53,920 --> 01:07:59,400
Speaker 12: a thing, then I put myself in a box. And

1195
01:07:59,440 --> 01:08:01,280
Speaker 12: what I really want to do is put the suptions

1196
01:08:01,280 --> 01:08:02,920
Speaker 12: in the box, and that I want to live in

1197
01:08:02,960 --> 01:08:05,000
Speaker 12: the infinite space that's around it.

1198
01:08:06,360 --> 01:08:06,720
Speaker 3: You know what, I.

1199
01:08:08,200 --> 01:08:09,520
Speaker 2: Love it. I love it all right.

1200
01:08:10,080 --> 01:08:12,480
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for tuning in, And if you

1201
01:08:12,600 --> 01:08:15,800
Speaker 1: like this episode, please check out my book on addiction,

1202
01:08:16,240 --> 01:08:20,760
Speaker 1: Six Mind Changing Conversations that Could Save a Life, available

1203
01:08:20,800 --> 01:08:25,360
Speaker 1: at Barnes Andnoble Bookshop, dot Org, Union Squaring Company, Amazon,

1204
01:08:25,800 --> 01:08:29,200
Speaker 1: and wherever books are sold. If you like to this episode,

1205
01:08:29,520 --> 01:08:32,080
Speaker 1: please share it with someone you think may need to

1206
01:08:32,120 --> 01:08:36,160
Speaker 1: hear it. Also, please subscribe to this podcast and leave

1207
01:08:36,200 --> 01:08:39,000
Speaker 1: a five star review that helps us reach any and

1208
01:08:39,040 --> 01:08:41,760
Speaker 1: everyone who may be looking for support in the face

1209
01:08:41,800 --> 01:08:42,280
Speaker 1: of addiction.