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Speaker 1: The Burger King right, Oh my god, so I will.

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Speaker 1: But I had to make my own mold of it,

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Speaker 1: you know. So it costs me how to buy like

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Speaker 1: thousands because you can't just make like fifty is it

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Speaker 1: original mold, original cut? I thought these things would be

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Speaker 1: selelit hotcakes, bro I can't give them.

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Speaker 2: Really, Ladies and gentlemen, are you ready's about to hit

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Speaker 2: the fan? Welcome to Sanctioned Thursdays in Wrestling with Friday.

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Speaker 3: Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to another episode of Unsanctioned Thursdays.

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Speaker 3: This show was asked for by y'all. We gave it

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Speaker 3: to y'all, so thank you for demanding it. I always

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Speaker 3: like him to talk more wrestling, and I like when

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Speaker 3: we get to have guests. We have our returning guest,

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Speaker 3: the Deathmatch King, mister Maccardona has joined us again and

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Speaker 3: we're going to talk independent wrestling and more the process

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Speaker 3: of it, and we'll get a little bit into to

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Speaker 3: my federation as well before we get into Matt's in

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Speaker 3: my history and the thing that I'm trying to build.

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Speaker 3: What have you found in the last four years in

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Speaker 3: your experience that helps make independent Federation successful? The mistakes

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Speaker 3: that you see, the wonderful choices you see, all the

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Speaker 3: shit in between, like you probably sometimes have gone and gone, yo,

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Speaker 3: I could run this better than these fucking guys. Like

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Speaker 3: what is it you're seeing that works? And what is

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Speaker 3: it you see that doesn't?

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Speaker 1: It sounds so simple, but the addition of these streaming services,

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Speaker 1: you know, and the Internet and social media have made

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Speaker 1: these independent promotions. You know GCW in Atlantic City, New Jersey,

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Speaker 1: when I beaten a gauge, it's not just an indie

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Speaker 1: show in front of whatever a thousand fans. It's worldwide.

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Speaker 1: Of course, that particular I was an exception, but we

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Speaker 1: trended online over the Olympics, over a UFC paperview. Of

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Speaker 1: course that doesn't always happen, but the potential is there, right,

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Speaker 1: The potential is there, And I think the issue I

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Speaker 1: see is more so with the independent wrestlers and not

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Speaker 1: so much the promoters. But I think they could listen

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Speaker 1: to this too. It's like the Internet is free. It's

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Speaker 1: free advertisement, right, but at the same time it's free

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Speaker 1: for everybody. So how are you gonna stand out? How

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Speaker 1: are you going to break through? One post a day

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Speaker 1: or one post a week promoting your show is not

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Speaker 1: going to spread the word. You know what I'm saying.

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Speaker 1: You got to think of creative ways to get your

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Speaker 1: product out there, and then once it's out there, to

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Speaker 1: keep it in everybody. Is you know conversation?

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Speaker 3: What things have you found you personally have done using

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Speaker 3: social media?

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Speaker 4: Is it?

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Speaker 3: Is it just kind of bringing the story to that

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Speaker 3: digital format so that people can decide whether they care

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Speaker 3: or not about it, and then following it to the match.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, And I think you know this is something

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Speaker 1: that you know happens in we aew And I don't

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Speaker 1: want to say I'm the first person to incorporate social

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Speaker 1: media in my storylines, but I'm definitely one of the

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Speaker 1: first people. With my YouTube show Back of the Day,

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Speaker 1: me and Ziggler, we took this you know, quote unquote

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Speaker 1: mid card story and added so much to it because

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Speaker 1: of our back and forth tweets because he stole my

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Speaker 1: girlfriend on my YouTube show, or he attacked me in

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Speaker 1: my hotel room. This is stuff that wasn't wasn't done before,

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Speaker 1: but now you know, you can. It doesn't have to

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Speaker 1: be week to weak and that's it. You can. You know,

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Speaker 1: look what Drew McIntyre and see him. Punk have been

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Speaker 1: building on social media.

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Speaker 3: Drew's really smart with it, man, He's really smart with it.

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Speaker 3: They've made the story so much more intriguing than you

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Speaker 3: want to see the eventual match because of all the

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Speaker 3: trash shocking they're doing, not just on Monday nights, you know,

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Speaker 3: in seg two of the show, but all week long.

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Speaker 3: And I think that's an important part, especially for me.

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Speaker 3: I'm not in aw I'm not in WWE, so I'm

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Speaker 3: not posting about myself. Nobody's posting about me, you know

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Speaker 3: what I'm saying. So that's why.

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Speaker 1: You know, if you check my social media feed, it

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Speaker 1: looks like I'm just on my phone all day, and

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Speaker 1: I am, because I'm shoving it down people's throat. I

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Speaker 1: want them. Maybe they're not watching my match, maybe they

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Speaker 1: don't know who I'm wrestling, but they're knowing that I'm

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Speaker 1: doing something. They're no that I can to this promotion.

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Speaker 1: They know I won this title, and I don't know

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Speaker 1: how the algorithm works. It's always changing, right, And I

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Speaker 1: don't want to say I'm throwing stuff at the wall

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Speaker 1: and seeing what sticks. That's kind of what I'm doing,

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Speaker 1: you know, That's what every artist does.

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Speaker 3: I mean from the first artist ever from Cave paintings

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Speaker 3: was literally throwing shit on a wall and seeing if

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Speaker 3: it's stuck, and if it did, oh, I can draw

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Speaker 3: a picture of this giant mammoth that my boys help

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Speaker 3: me take down today, like all artists are doing that.

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Speaker 3: It's it's I've said this before, but it's a with wrestling.

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Speaker 3: It's a literal transfer of blood, sweat and tears on

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Speaker 3: an actual fucking canvas. It's like looking at a Jackson

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Speaker 3: Pollock painting at the end of the night sometimes, and

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Speaker 3: that's art. So you have to sell yourself. You have

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Speaker 3: to promote yourself. You've always done it in such a

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Speaker 3: positive way. Assholes like Pablo Picasso back in the day

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Speaker 3: would like do it by shitting all over his contemporaries,

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Speaker 3: buying their art, and when they died, he'd say how

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Speaker 3: great they were and then sell the whole fucking collection off.

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Speaker 1: And you're like the.

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Speaker 5: Opposite of that.

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Speaker 3: You're super positive, even when you talk about things like

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Speaker 3: injuries or nobody else is promoting me, Like you're laughing

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Speaker 3: when you say it. Like even though it's it's it's

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Speaker 3: it's a harder path. You've embraced it. So much, you said,

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Speaker 3: you know, I think it was in Wednesday's episode. You

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Speaker 3: can't be half pregnant, right, and you've gone so all

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Speaker 3: in and it's such an example for other people to follow,

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Speaker 3: and I hope they do, Jeff, before we get into others.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I was gonna say, I like the humility.

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Speaker 4: The tough thing about wrestlers is you guys have this

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Speaker 4: persona and then you have yourself. So it's like it's

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Speaker 4: like like people go.

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Speaker 5: Oh, I know all about writer, or I know all about.

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Speaker 4: Because we we know the wrestler, we know the bad

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Speaker 4: guy or the or the the whatever. You have such

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Speaker 4: a humility about you like to be like, no, I'm

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Speaker 4: gonna go in the show business. They call it proof

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Speaker 4: of concept.

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Speaker 5: You know.

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Speaker 4: You didn't just cry and go oh this is tough

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Speaker 4: and wrestling is hard. You went out and became the

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Speaker 4: indie god of like being like I'm gonna be the

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Speaker 4: wrestler of the people, like I'm gonna go to these shows,

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Speaker 4: like I'm not above these shows. I'm not above these

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Speaker 4: wrestling markets. I don't I'm not only like WW. I

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Speaker 4: think it's amazing and it's nice to use the internet

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Speaker 4: to see like that that you're an actual grinder and

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Speaker 4: a hard worker and humble, which is amazing. I would

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Speaker 4: love to hear people always ask comedians what you know,

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Speaker 4: what was your worst bomb?

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Speaker 5: You know?

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Speaker 4: Oh, they always want to hear that story. What's what's

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Speaker 4: the worst bomb? Where's the way? I would love to know,

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Speaker 4: since you've had such a you know, pluth throw of

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Speaker 4: things we have and have not seen, what is the

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Speaker 4: time that either you were like the lowest, like the

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Speaker 4: shit's got to change, or if it was just so embarrassing,

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Speaker 4: like on that moment.

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Speaker 1: Now we're talking about my my indie run.

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Speaker 5: Anything where you just were like what is this?

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Speaker 1: Well, I mean, look the indies, for sure, it's gotta

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Speaker 1: you gotta take the good with the bad. Right So

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Speaker 1: for instance, like GCW to me, it's the number one

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Speaker 1: independent and I I only called it an independent because

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Speaker 1: it truly is independently funded and run. But I believe

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Speaker 1: it's the number three behind GCW, I'm sorry, behind WW

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Speaker 1: and uh an AEW because it runs every weekend all

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Speaker 1: over the country, all over the world. Right, but in La,

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Speaker 1: where you guys live, you run this La show. I've

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Speaker 1: worked the Staples Center before whatever it's called now, right,

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Speaker 1: for W. Now in GCW, I'm working the Ukrainian Cultural

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Speaker 1: Center and the locker room is an alley backstage. There

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Speaker 1: is no locker room. It's an alley. There's no bathroom. Okay,

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Speaker 1: you're you're you're pissing behind the dumpster, you know. When

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Speaker 1: Ziggler was on the show, they added a porter potty.

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Speaker 1: But it's like, it's like, let's go, this is my life,

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Speaker 1: Like this is what I'm doing. So like it's moments

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Speaker 1: like that we're like, oh god, but the fans don't

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Speaker 1: see that, you know, the fans haven't. Actually, the fans

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Speaker 1: do see that because it's right by the parking lot.

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Speaker 4: But that makes us like it more and like, to

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Speaker 4: be honest, that just makes you think. That makes us

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Speaker 4: think you're cooler.

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Speaker 1: So, I mean, that's just one that's like when I'm

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Speaker 1: every time I'm there, I'm like this last time, I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna be here. Next time this show comes.

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Speaker 6: Around, I'm gonna be in awww, I tell you every time,

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Speaker 6: or you.

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Speaker 1: Know, when it comes to like merchandise, I'm a big,

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Speaker 1: big merch guy. I make all my own stuff, sell

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Speaker 1: my own stuff to me, you know, the meet and

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Speaker 1: greet before the show is more important than the match. Hey,

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Speaker 1: because I'm making money, but be because you're making a

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Speaker 1: connection with the audience, right for me, So like when

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Speaker 1: I get to these shows, believe me, Like it blows

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Speaker 1: my mind. Sometimes I'm the only one out there selling

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Speaker 1: eight by ten. They're selling you know whatever, And these

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Speaker 1: guys and girls are backstage going over their match. And

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Speaker 1: I get it. I'm not saying have a bad match, right,

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Speaker 1: but if you don't have a connection with the audience,

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Speaker 1: and who the fuck cares what moves you do, They're

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Speaker 1: not gonna care. They might they might go ooh ah,

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Speaker 1: but they're not gonna remember you. They're not gonna care

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Speaker 1: about you. You know. Do you tell that to the girls?

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Speaker 1: And I sometimes I get so mad. I post about

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Speaker 1: social media like I'm the only one out here selling

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Speaker 1: thank you for you know, for going over your matches.

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Speaker 1: I'm making all your money.

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Speaker 4: You know, and even separating the money part of it,

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Speaker 4: like that is what wrestling's supposed to be. You're you're

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Speaker 4: connecting with the audience. That's the whole point. When you're

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Speaker 4: there's a reason there's a goddamn hardcam. You're supposed to

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Speaker 4: be connecting with the audience. And so it's like, it's

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Speaker 4: so crazy to forget about how many wrestling fans there

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Speaker 4: are out there.

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Speaker 1: I think it's amazing that not to bring up the bombs, right,

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Speaker 1: So I think I'm very on the pulse when it

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Speaker 1: comes to merch because you know, Jeff, like, I'm a

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Speaker 1: collector like you, right, and I've been a collector of

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Speaker 1: my whole life. So I feel like I know what

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Speaker 1: the fans want, right because I put myself in their shoes.

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Speaker 1: If I was a Matt Cardona fan, what piece of

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Speaker 1: merchandise would I buy? So, whether it be an action

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Speaker 1: figure or a nice exclusive trading card. But here's my

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Speaker 1: my one bomb, right, I'm the Death Match King. I

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Speaker 1: have a very nice crown. Can you see. You can't

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Speaker 1: see me, but I wear it out to the ring.

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Speaker 1: Very expensive crown. I couldn't make replicas of it, like

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Speaker 1: I tried, and I sold for a couple hundred bucks.

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Speaker 1: But I sold maybe like twenty years. So it's very expensive.

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Speaker 1: So how can I make this affordable? So I thought

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Speaker 1: the Burger King crown, right, Oh my god, So I will.

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Speaker 1: But I had to make my own mold of it,

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Speaker 1: you know, So it cost me. I had to buy

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Speaker 1: like thousands, because you can't just make like fifty because

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Speaker 1: an original mold, original cut. I thought these things would

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Speaker 1: be selling like hotcakes. Bro, I can't give them, really,

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Speaker 1: I cannot give it. Seems like such a genius idea,

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Speaker 1: that's what I thought. But that is my bomb, the

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Speaker 1: paper death mash King crown that I could, like you

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Speaker 1: ever hear the story of the et Atari game Horse.

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Speaker 3: I saw the documentary there.

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Speaker 1: One day they're gonna be buried, these death king paper

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Speaker 1: burger king style crowds, and I'll send something nowhere one

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Speaker 1: like I First of all, I'll sell like thirty bucks,

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Speaker 1: all right, they're not moving, Okay, I'll sell for twenty

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Speaker 1: bucks now, they're not moving. Now, I selve with ten bucks.

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Speaker 1: Now literally it's like okay with purchase, you get it

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Speaker 1: out because I just want I literally I literally have

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Speaker 1: to give them.

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Speaker 4: Away to get I had pins made of my face,

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Speaker 4: you know, like little enameled pins, and I thought people

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Speaker 4: would like that or whatever. People like girls would come

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Speaker 4: up like after the show at the table they're like

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Speaker 4: who's this and I was like, that's me, and they're

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Speaker 4: like ah, They're like this looks terrible. And I was

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Speaker 4: like listen, do you want to buy one or not?

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Speaker 4: I don't like I can't even even if I give

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Speaker 4: them away. People just insult how terrible they look.

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Speaker 1: It's terrible. Right.

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Speaker 3: Did you mention that connection with the audience and I

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Speaker 3: had never had that. We're both in show business, but

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Speaker 3: different forms, right, And I don't have to connect to

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Speaker 3: a live audience like the way a stand up comic

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Speaker 3: or professional wrestler does. I wait nine months for you

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Speaker 3: to feel a certain way, and I don't get to

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Speaker 3: meet you. Until conventions became a big thing and I

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Speaker 3: went to one and the first one I went to,

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Speaker 3: everyone was lovely, and I was like, oh, I could

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Speaker 3: definitely like do another one of these. Sometimes when you

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Speaker 3: have that connection, I've gotten the weirdest interactions with people

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Speaker 3: where they'll feel like they can criticize a film that

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Speaker 3: I've done, and I'm sitting there laughing. I'm laughing because

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Speaker 3: I can't change it, you know what I mean. I

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Speaker 3: can't go back and make it better for them. If

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Speaker 3: they didn't like it, they didn't like it. But I've

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Speaker 3: had people come up and be like, oh man, that line,

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Speaker 3: and I note you did last summer when love was like,

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Speaker 3: what are you waiting for Were you guys laughing when

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Speaker 3: she did that? And I was like, what, bro, No,

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Speaker 3: why are you saying such awful things about someone who

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Speaker 3: never did anything? And there were other wrestlers there and

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Speaker 3: I was sharing the story and one of them was

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Speaker 3: Samoa Joe and he was like, bro, I had a

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Speaker 3: guy faint And I was like, wait, what there's levels

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Speaker 3: to this game, like what just happened. What's the greatest

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Speaker 3: whether it was funny or just charming or whatever, the

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Speaker 3: greatest interaction you've ever had with a fan at one of.

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Speaker 1: These Man, there's this fan that in Japan. Every time

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Speaker 1: I go, he dresses up like full cosplay as me.

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Speaker 1: It's on like he's done Zach Ryder when I was

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Speaker 1: a WWE. He's done the indie guy and it's just

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Speaker 1: and whether it be you know, he he gets like

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Speaker 1: a fake beard and he has the boots, the drugs.

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Speaker 1: I don't know about how much money he's spending on these,

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Speaker 1: but I just love that when they're because I remember

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Speaker 1: being a diehard fan. I remember being on the other

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Speaker 1: side of the table, so to speak, you know, going

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Speaker 1: up and meeting these guys. So I really appreciate, you know,

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Speaker 1: and I try to give everyone, you know, all my

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Speaker 1: attention and all my love because it means a lot,

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Speaker 1: whether they're buying a five dollars sticker or a sixty

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Speaker 1: dollars premium ittem Indie God have you know what I'm saying, Like,

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Speaker 1: I just love that connection because you never know who's

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Speaker 1: gonna be like a lifelong fan or someone it might

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Speaker 1: change their life and they may you know, get into

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Speaker 1: the business. You know.

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Speaker 4: Also, yeah, like you, I was gonna say that, Like

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Speaker 4: I say to my manager my agent all the time,

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Speaker 4: because I sell merch after every show. It isn't about

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Speaker 4: the merch. Most of these people don't even want my merch.

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Speaker 4: They just want to go, hey, thanks for what you

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Speaker 4: made me feel up there, and they just want to

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Speaker 4: shake your hand or get a pick. Like the merch

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Speaker 4: is just the excuse for me to get to talk

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Speaker 4: to them and get to and and get That's that's

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Speaker 4: all it is.

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Speaker 5: And then also merch is cool.

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Speaker 4: So if you make good merch, then that that's that's

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Speaker 4: that's that's double prizes.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 3: We don't have time to get into federation stuff, but

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Speaker 3: just know that Matt and I talk a lot. Maybe

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Speaker 3: we'll go to Japan, but for not six months, for

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Speaker 3: a much shorter amount of time. Since we both love Japan. Dude,

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Speaker 3: I want to thank you for your time. Thank you

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Speaker 3: for coming on the show again.

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Speaker 5: Man.

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Speaker 3: You you know how much I love you. You know

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Speaker 3: how much I respect you, So thank you for doing this.

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Speaker 3: You don't have to and we appreciate it. Jeff, you

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Speaker 3: want to say any goodbyes.

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Speaker 5: Right, just that you got to keep doing. I'm I

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Speaker 5: have a prediction.

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Speaker 4: I'm very good with me and Freddie have predicted a

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Speaker 4: lot of things on this podcast. I predict, you know,

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Speaker 4: maybe not as large, but you know, when there was

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Speaker 4: the whole nWo W they they've believed that it was

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Speaker 4: coming over from from WWE to infiltrate kind of the

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Speaker 4: w C. My prediction is we're gonna see a Matt

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Speaker 4: Cordona version of that with wrestling infiltration storyline, Indie guys

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Speaker 4: coming over here, this mother.

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Speaker 5: And then uh, I.

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Speaker 4: Think everything that's happening right now is no it's it's

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Speaker 4: it's no accident. This is you did exactly what the

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Speaker 4: wrestling gods wanted you to do, and I think it's

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Speaker 4: gonna pay off huge.

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Speaker 1: Last prediction, you guys could be You guys could be

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Speaker 1: my personal right. I can't pay much. You guys could

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Speaker 1: be bro.

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Speaker 3: You know how many promos I've written for free for

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Speaker 3: wrestlers over the years. Dog, I got your fucking bag

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Speaker 3: all right, man. Thank you all for listening. Tune in

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Speaker 3: every week. Don't forget to subscribe. That's a hard word

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Speaker 3: for me to say. Tell your friends, take it easy,

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Speaker 3: to see you next week. This is on sectioned Thursday's Peace.

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Speaker 3: This has been a production of Iheart's Michael Toura podcast Network.

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Speaker 3: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

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Speaker 3: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.