WEBVTT - CLASSIC: That Time Ohio and Michigan Almost Went To War 0:00:00.320 --> 0:00:04.240 Ridiculous historians. We are returning to you with this week's 0:00:04.280 --> 0:00:09.080 classic episode special shout out to folks in Ohio aka 0:00:09.320 --> 0:00:15.320 the Buckeye State, as well as Michigan. Noel, you've been 0:00:15.360 --> 0:00:16.680 to Michigan. 0:00:16.320 --> 0:00:19.400 Right, Ben, I have been to Michigan, and you bringing 0:00:19.520 --> 0:00:21.759 up the Buckeye State reminded me of a conversation we 0:00:21.800 --> 0:00:24.280 had just the other day about what a hoosier is. 0:00:26.000 --> 0:00:29.440 It's actually kind of much hotly debated. Some people think 0:00:29.440 --> 0:00:33.600 it's a connection to the who's here greeting, like who's here? 0:00:33.800 --> 0:00:34.000 You know? 0:00:34.360 --> 0:00:37.400 And then there's a dude named John Finley who popularized 0:00:37.400 --> 0:00:39.800 the term in a poem called the Hoosier's Nest, And 0:00:39.840 --> 0:00:40.839 then there are a couple. 0:00:40.640 --> 0:00:41.360 Of other reasons. 0:00:41.360 --> 0:00:45.360 But the word that I learned, Ben, was a demonym, 0:00:45.840 --> 0:00:47.680 which is a word that is used to describe a 0:00:47.800 --> 0:00:52.000 native or resident of a particular region. And hoosier is 0:00:52.040 --> 0:00:54.400 a demonym. So I'm sorry, I just had to share 0:00:54.440 --> 0:00:55.880 that with the class man. 0:00:56.080 --> 0:00:59.280 I love you for that. We love a specific word. 0:00:59.400 --> 0:01:03.880 English is full of them. Indiana is technically full of hoosiers. 0:01:04.840 --> 0:01:08.480 Ohio being the Buckeye State, we learned the etymology of 0:01:08.560 --> 0:01:14.080 that as well. In our earlier conversation, are the poisonous nut? Right? Yes, 0:01:15.000 --> 0:01:18.720 a poisonous nut, as some of my ex girlfriends have 0:01:18.840 --> 0:01:24.199 described me. We'll keep it. This episode, Noel is about 0:01:24.240 --> 0:01:31.520 the time that Ohio and Michigan almost went to actual war. Yeah, 0:01:31.680 --> 0:01:37.280 over some lakes, some great ones. Indeed, let's roll the tape, y'all. 0:01:40.560 --> 0:02:09.839 Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. State Rivalries. One 0:02:09.880 --> 0:02:13.280 of my favorite things about traveling around this fair nation 0:02:13.480 --> 0:02:17.040 of hours is the regardless of what state you find 0:02:17.040 --> 0:02:21.240 yourself in, you can find another state that most of 0:02:21.240 --> 0:02:23.600 the people in that state hate. So if you go 0:02:23.680 --> 0:02:26.040 to Alabama, you'll find a lot of people who hate Georgia. 0:02:26.080 --> 0:02:27.560 If you go to Georgia, you'll find a lot of 0:02:27.600 --> 0:02:30.680 people who hate Alabama. Hi. My name is Ben, Hi, 0:02:30.800 --> 0:02:31.480 my name is Nolan. 0:02:31.560 --> 0:02:34.160 I was just recently in Oregon driving around in a 0:02:34.200 --> 0:02:39.000 rental car with California plates, and I was counseled that 0:02:39.440 --> 0:02:42.600 I better tread lightly because that's not a good look. 0:02:42.600 --> 0:02:45.840 And people from Oregon do not cottonto those city slickers 0:02:45.880 --> 0:02:48.200 from California crossing over into their fair state. 0:02:48.440 --> 0:02:49.280 And here's the problem. 0:02:49.520 --> 0:02:51.440 The car I was in was a big, giant suv, 0:02:51.639 --> 0:02:53.600 so a real hog of the road and it had 0:02:53.639 --> 0:02:58.240 a tear trigger horn, so I was constantly accidentally honking 0:02:58.240 --> 0:03:01.600 at people in traffic and get some pretty nasty looks. 0:03:01.880 --> 0:03:07.600 Well, listeners, super producer Casey Pegrim, and I can assure 0:03:07.639 --> 0:03:11.360 you that that Noel is a responsible driver and you 0:03:11.400 --> 0:03:13.720 don't just lay on your horn. You know, it's tough 0:03:13.720 --> 0:03:16.160 when you're driving a rental car. And you're right. You're 0:03:16.280 --> 0:03:18.920 right about California. A lot of people have been moving 0:03:19.080 --> 0:03:22.440 to Oregon, especially the western part of the state by 0:03:22.480 --> 0:03:26.000 the coast. And when I had spent time in Portland, 0:03:26.720 --> 0:03:29.000 that's one thing everybody got behind. They were like, Oh, 0:03:29.000 --> 0:03:33.440 he's Californians CANi coming in here taking over our state. 0:03:33.840 --> 0:03:38.640 Stay on the four O five. So today's story is 0:03:38.680 --> 0:03:42.920 a story about state rivalry, but it's not about that 0:03:43.040 --> 0:03:47.200 kind of you know, funny. Let's tell a one liner 0:03:47.320 --> 0:03:50.840 joke sort of rivalry. What do we mean by one 0:03:50.880 --> 0:03:56.200 liner joke? I'll tell an example that makes fun of Georgia. 0:03:56.360 --> 0:03:58.000 Since this is our state, of course, we don't want 0:03:58.000 --> 0:04:01.400 to offend anybody. So let's say you're in Alabama, you're 0:04:01.440 --> 0:04:05.560 in Florida, and someone says, hey, did you hear about 0:04:05.600 --> 0:04:08.960 that hurricane that hit Savannah and they say, no, what happened? 0:04:09.080 --> 0:04:12.160 So while it did like millions of dollars worth of improvements, 0:04:13.400 --> 0:04:15.960 that's a that's a joke that you hear thrown around 0:04:16.000 --> 0:04:16.320 a lot. 0:04:16.400 --> 0:04:19.200 Savannah's beautiful city, though, Ben, who would say that about Savannah? 0:04:19.200 --> 0:04:21.360 Who would say that? I don't know, jerks, who are 0:04:21.360 --> 0:04:24.479 these monsters? Well, they're jokes. Savannah is a town with 0:04:24.520 --> 0:04:26.200 a lot of history. It's got a weird vibe. 0:04:26.240 --> 0:04:29.320 And there's a like a nuclear weapon lost off the 0:04:29.320 --> 0:04:31.279 coast there. Did you know that? I didn't, but I 0:04:31.320 --> 0:04:32.800 know there's a lot of ghosts there. 0:04:33.160 --> 0:04:35.760 Yes, yeah, it goes one of those ghosty port towns 0:04:35.800 --> 0:04:36.840 like New Orleans. 0:04:36.680 --> 0:04:39.719 M And it's oh, man, yeah, we should we should 0:04:39.720 --> 0:04:41.800 go down there. We should go down there on a 0:04:41.880 --> 0:04:43.880 ridiculous history field trip. We could do a ghost tour. 0:04:43.960 --> 0:04:45.640 We could do a ghost tour. I think I think 0:04:45.640 --> 0:04:47.240 it's in the budget. What do you say, let's do it? 0:04:47.279 --> 0:04:49.120 Case he are you down for a ghost tour? I'd 0:04:49.120 --> 0:04:49.640 love to do that. 0:04:50.040 --> 0:04:52.760 Yeah, Savers going to Hawaii, they can at least send 0:04:52.800 --> 0:04:54.479 us to Savannah for a ghost tour. 0:04:54.720 --> 0:04:58.480 That really Savers a food, lifestyle and travel show. It's 0:04:58.520 --> 0:04:59.880 also involves food science. 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:01.640 You check it out if you're at a chance see 0:05:01.640 --> 0:05:03.599 your friends Lauren Vogel bamb In any race. 0:05:05.040 --> 0:05:07.400 Who are going to Hawaii. That is true. I asked 0:05:07.400 --> 0:05:10.080 them to bring back some spam for me. We'll see. 0:05:10.400 --> 0:05:12.240 You know they still spam here in the States. Yeah, 0:05:12.240 --> 0:05:14.440 but it's different. There are more flavors in Hawaii. 0:05:14.680 --> 0:05:16.840 Okay, did you specifically ask for a flavor or just like, 0:05:16.920 --> 0:05:17.960 gimme get weird with it? 0:05:18.200 --> 0:05:20.760 Say give me one that I can't get in the States. Sol. 0:05:20.800 --> 0:05:22.320 It's sort of like all those different flavors of kit 0:05:22.400 --> 0:05:23.760 kats that you can only get in Japan. 0:05:24.040 --> 0:05:25.760 Yeah, I have a bag of those if I desk. 0:05:26.320 --> 0:05:28.680 I really like the green tea ones. Green tea is good. 0:05:29.000 --> 0:05:32.680 I get hipped to banana. Also, Hawaii is, I think, 0:05:32.760 --> 0:05:36.680 per capita, the world's largest consumer of spam. Remember when 0:05:36.680 --> 0:05:39.280 we did an episode on spam with Nanny from Savor and. 0:05:39.200 --> 0:05:40.640 We talked about how they have to keep it under 0:05:40.680 --> 0:05:43.479 lock and key because it's such a non perishable item 0:05:43.560 --> 0:05:45.320 that they can just flip it out of their trunks 0:05:45.560 --> 0:05:47.440 once they you know, do a big spam heist. 0:05:47.760 --> 0:05:50.279 Yeah, I used to have spam in my go bag. 0:05:50.440 --> 0:05:55.680 But the weight ratio is anyway anyway, anyway, State rivals rights, 0:05:56.720 --> 0:06:00.880 state rivalries. Today's episode is about a state rivalry. It 0:06:01.000 --> 0:06:06.200 is about the fair states of Ohio and Michigan, who 0:06:06.279 --> 0:06:13.240 nowadays knowel neither of us are big football fanatics football football, yes, 0:06:13.680 --> 0:06:17.839 American football tatics. Yeah, neither of us are huge American 0:06:17.880 --> 0:06:21.680 football fanatics. Nowhere near as insane and rabbit about it 0:06:21.720 --> 0:06:25.080 as Casey Pegrim is. But even we know that Michigan 0:06:25.120 --> 0:06:28.440 and Ohio are famous for how much their college football 0:06:28.440 --> 0:06:29.279 teams hate each other. 0:06:29.320 --> 0:06:30.839 I only knew it because it says it right here 0:06:31.080 --> 0:06:32.840 on this out line. Yeah, that's how you and I 0:06:32.880 --> 0:06:35.080 know that that's right. But it's true, and who knows, 0:06:35.120 --> 0:06:40.080 I mean, perhaps the rivalry in question today has had 0:06:40.720 --> 0:06:43.880 a historical hold on the relationship between these two states 0:06:44.080 --> 0:06:47.600 and has you know, I would say a football rivalry 0:06:47.640 --> 0:06:51.240 or a little healthy joshing around between you know, rough 0:06:51.279 --> 0:06:55.800 and tumble footballers, is a lot healthier and safer than 0:06:56.040 --> 0:07:01.120 what has been described as the Till War, a clash 0:07:01.160 --> 0:07:05.760 between Ohiolands. And I'm gonna go with my favorite Michiganders 0:07:05.760 --> 0:07:09.800 because in our research material. Sometimes it says Michiganians, and 0:07:10.040 --> 0:07:11.680 sometimes I Michiganders. 0:07:11.760 --> 0:07:13.240 Michigan Michiganders. 0:07:13.360 --> 0:07:16.000 Yeah, right in any Michigan folk, let us know what 0:07:16.240 --> 0:07:20.000 ones you prefer. But this conflict took place in eighteen 0:07:20.080 --> 0:07:22.120 thirty five, and it had to do with the fact 0:07:22.120 --> 0:07:25.600 that both Ohio, which was a state at the time, 0:07:25.800 --> 0:07:28.080 and Michigan, which was not yet a state at the time, 0:07:28.400 --> 0:07:31.840 both thought they owned this little strip of land. It's 0:07:31.840 --> 0:07:35.200 almost like a gaza strip kind of situation between two 0:07:35.960 --> 0:07:39.720 warring nations, only this case it's you know, there's there's 0:07:39.720 --> 0:07:42.040 states in a state, in a not quite yet state, 0:07:42.600 --> 0:07:44.960 and there's this little strip of land between them that 0:07:45.040 --> 0:07:46.600 each of them feel like they have a claim to, 0:07:47.160 --> 0:07:47.880 right right. 0:07:47.960 --> 0:07:50.520 This was a long time in coming, and it's a 0:07:51.560 --> 0:07:55.720 it's based on a series of misunderstandings. First off, I 0:07:55.760 --> 0:07:58.800 love the name Toledo War. It sounds like it's the 0:07:58.840 --> 0:08:03.000 name of an album. In seventeen eighty seven, the US 0:08:03.080 --> 0:08:06.720 Congress drafted what they called the Northwest Ordinance, and the 0:08:06.760 --> 0:08:11.000 Northwest Ordinance said that two hundred and sixty thousand square 0:08:11.040 --> 0:08:13.960 miles of territory around the Great Lakes would be carved 0:08:14.000 --> 0:08:17.720 into a handful of states. The law also said that 0:08:17.760 --> 0:08:21.240 the border between Ohio and Michigan was to run on 0:08:21.480 --> 0:08:25.080 a quote east and west line drawn through the southerly 0:08:25.240 --> 0:08:29.600 bend or extreme of Lake Michigan until it intersected with 0:08:29.720 --> 0:08:33.760 Lake Erie. However, they did a bad job. They did 0:08:33.760 --> 0:08:36.640 a piss poor job because the problem is that the 0:08:36.640 --> 0:08:42.520 maps they had were wrong. Lake Michigan's southern tip on 0:08:42.640 --> 0:08:45.120 the map, one of the best maps at the time 0:08:45.160 --> 0:08:47.079 that they used, which was called the Mitchell Map. You 0:08:47.120 --> 0:08:50.800 can look it up today. The Lake Michigan that was 0:08:50.840 --> 0:08:56.680 on the map was actually several miles north of where 0:08:56.679 --> 0:08:59.640 it is in the world or on the planet. And 0:08:59.720 --> 0:09:04.440 so so Congress got it wrong and they didn't know 0:09:04.559 --> 0:09:07.280 in a minute Congress did what Yeah, I know, I know. 0:09:07.360 --> 0:09:09.600 I thought they were infallible. It was the one time 0:09:10.559 --> 0:09:14.640 Congress got it wrong, and they didn't know that they 0:09:14.679 --> 0:09:18.440 got it wrong until eighteen o two years and years later, 0:09:18.720 --> 0:09:21.200 And it was because of a fur trapper who said, hey, guys, 0:09:21.280 --> 0:09:23.240 actually got the line wrong. This is going to come 0:09:23.280 --> 0:09:25.720 back to bite you in the future. Listen to me. 0:09:26.400 --> 0:09:29.320 I'm I'm a trapper. Professionally, I'm telling you you guys 0:09:29.320 --> 0:09:33.320 are trapping yourselves and how did they react? Well, we 0:09:33.400 --> 0:09:35.800 know it wasn't resolved. Well, first of all, I got 0:09:35.840 --> 0:09:36.800 I got a backtrack slightly. 0:09:36.880 --> 0:09:39.120 Let me ask you this, did this fur trapper with 0:09:39.320 --> 0:09:45.080 you know, just just waltz into Congress and announce these findings. 0:09:45.160 --> 0:09:48.800 Say hey, hey, you guys, it's me Raoul the fur Trapper. 0:09:48.920 --> 0:09:51.000 I got something to tell you. Or was he employed 0:09:51.000 --> 0:09:54.559 by them? Was he sent to what's the word survey 0:09:55.160 --> 0:09:57.600 the land? Because the surveyors come in a little later. 0:09:57.800 --> 0:09:59.480 Sorry if I'm getting caught up in semantics here, I 0:09:59.559 --> 0:10:01.680 just can't pick sure. Raoul the fur Trapper just waltzing 0:10:01.679 --> 0:10:04.120 into Connor and saying, listen here, this is going to 0:10:04.160 --> 0:10:05.080 be a real problem. 0:10:05.640 --> 0:10:09.120 He did. I like the name Raoul, and we don't 0:10:09.160 --> 0:10:14.480 have the exact name for this guy. Apparently delegates from 0:10:14.480 --> 0:10:19.400 the Ohio Constitutional Convention received reports from him, so he 0:10:19.440 --> 0:10:21.960 did not stroll into the halls of Federal Congers. 0:10:22.000 --> 0:10:24.319 I see, he had a correspondence going on with him. 0:10:24.320 --> 0:10:27.439 He was some in some form their representative, and he 0:10:27.520 --> 0:10:29.960 had he had a lot of stuff going on already. 0:10:30.040 --> 0:10:32.240 You know what I mean. He can't watch every falling 0:10:32.280 --> 0:10:37.360 sparrow or border dispute. But you said, you said there 0:10:37.440 --> 0:10:40.360 there was another important thing happening here, which is that 0:10:40.840 --> 0:10:44.760 these territories, these areas around the lakes were not states. 0:10:45.360 --> 0:10:48.560 Ohio finally became a state in what eighteen oh three, 0:10:49.520 --> 0:10:53.880 and so Ohio said, when it became a state, it 0:10:54.120 --> 0:10:58.480 specified something about this border in its constitution. So the 0:10:58.520 --> 0:11:01.360 fur trapper says, the line I actually falls south of 0:11:01.400 --> 0:11:05.640 the Maumi River, and Ohio says, we own the land 0:11:05.679 --> 0:11:09.920 around this no matter what future surveys show. And then 0:11:10.000 --> 0:11:13.560 the Michigan Territory is formed and the government of the 0:11:13.559 --> 0:11:20.040 Michigan Territory says, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, Ohio, watch yourself, 0:11:20.760 --> 0:11:23.920 because that Mitchell map is wrong. We have newer, better 0:11:24.000 --> 0:11:28.120 maps and they show that this region is ours. This 0:11:28.160 --> 0:11:32.199 is Michigan Territory, so step off seriously. 0:11:32.679 --> 0:11:36.360 So things only got worse because in the eighteen tens 0:11:36.520 --> 0:11:38.280 they sent a pair of land. 0:11:38.080 --> 0:11:41.640 Surveyors well actually I guess one from each. 0:11:41.520 --> 0:11:45.120 Side, yeah yeah, yeah, one from each side, and of 0:11:45.160 --> 0:11:49.599 course they came to two different conclusions no way, yeah yeah, 0:11:49.640 --> 0:11:52.439 about the location where this border would be. And that's 0:11:52.480 --> 0:11:57.080 when this strip became a thing, this gaza strip esque 0:11:57.480 --> 0:12:00.440 area of land a four hundred and sixty eight square 0:12:00.480 --> 0:12:05.640 mile slice known as the Toledo Strip that was officially 0:12:05.720 --> 0:12:10.200 being claimed very aggressively actually, as it would turn out, 0:12:10.320 --> 0:12:20.240 by both Ohio and what was then called the Michigan Territory. 0:12:20.440 --> 0:12:26.119 So, okay, sure, maps get things wrong. People are fallible. 0:12:26.320 --> 0:12:30.200 Can't they just sit down together and work it out? Well, 0:12:30.240 --> 0:12:34.000 they could if it were an arbitrary mistake. The problem 0:12:34.080 --> 0:12:36.000 is they both have skin in the game. They both 0:12:36.040 --> 0:12:37.760 have a horse in the race. They both want a 0:12:37.800 --> 0:12:43.080 badger in the bag here, because they wanted to control 0:12:43.600 --> 0:12:47.520 this area that it would later become Toledo and the river. 0:12:48.600 --> 0:12:51.160 You see. By eighteen twenty five, the completion of the 0:12:51.200 --> 0:12:54.319 Erie Canal linked the Great Lakes to the east coast 0:12:54.480 --> 0:12:56.680 Ecteamo on the Arico. 0:12:56.840 --> 0:12:59.599 Now that one, Yeah, it's an all song kind of 0:12:59.600 --> 0:13:02.840 like in the company store. We're trying to ground it 0:13:02.840 --> 0:13:07.079 and like you know lore, Yeah, and folks, folks, folks songs. 0:13:07.120 --> 0:13:07.560 Exactly. 0:13:08.120 --> 0:13:12.080 No, this is very, very very valuable position to hold 0:13:12.160 --> 0:13:15.480 in terms of trade. Right, yeah, absolutely, you're absolutely right. 0:13:15.880 --> 0:13:19.840 So Toledo at this point is a growing village. It's 0:13:19.880 --> 0:13:24.080 the largest port on Lake Erie's western side, and that 0:13:24.200 --> 0:13:28.680 means it could be a financial windfall. So of course 0:13:29.120 --> 0:13:33.400 both Michigan and Ohio want to tighten their grip on it. 0:13:33.440 --> 0:13:37.960 And just like just like the border disputes we see 0:13:38.440 --> 0:13:42.440 in more recent years, they try a number of things 0:13:42.559 --> 0:13:46.080 right to legitimize their claim, both in the eyes of 0:13:46.120 --> 0:13:51.120 the people living there and in terms of just pure infrastructure. 0:13:51.400 --> 0:13:54.400 So the Michigan territory, because still not a state yet, 0:13:54.760 --> 0:13:58.800 is constructing roads, it's sending people on purpose to live 0:13:58.840 --> 0:14:02.040 there to sort of take over the land. It's holding election, 0:14:02.520 --> 0:14:06.480 it's collecting taxes. Really put in the cart before the 0:14:06.520 --> 0:14:07.559 old horse, there isn't it. 0:14:07.800 --> 0:14:11.760 Yeah, like a boots flexing that claim, right. It is 0:14:11.880 --> 0:14:15.280 not an ethical way to gain territory. It is an 0:14:15.360 --> 0:14:19.560 unfortunately common way that human beings have done this in 0:14:19.600 --> 0:14:22.080 the past and the modern day. Just say like, let's 0:14:22.120 --> 0:14:25.320 if we send enough of quote unquote our people to 0:14:25.400 --> 0:14:28.000 a place that we don't own and have them live there, 0:14:28.080 --> 0:14:29.320 but eventually it's ours. 0:14:29.320 --> 0:14:31.880 This isn't the moon, you know. This isn't like a 0:14:32.040 --> 0:14:35.840 far removed location. This isn't a colony that is completely 0:14:35.840 --> 0:14:38.080 disconnected from day to day life. This is a very 0:14:38.120 --> 0:14:41.240 small strip of land right between these two places where 0:14:41.240 --> 0:14:47.600 presumably human beings live, and it became very evident that 0:14:47.680 --> 0:14:52.480 both sides wanted to protect their claim physically if necessary. 0:14:52.720 --> 0:14:58.000 Right, right, and Ohio. Ohio tries a different strategy. They're 0:14:58.040 --> 0:15:00.440 doing some of the same things the Michigan territory, but 0:15:00.520 --> 0:15:02.800 Ohio is already a state, so they have a pretty 0:15:03.360 --> 0:15:07.960 pretty significant advantage. They go to Washington like that fur 0:15:08.040 --> 0:15:12.760 trapper who never made it. Yeah. Right, Well, so they 0:15:12.800 --> 0:15:15.840 go to the halls of federal power and they say, look, 0:15:16.720 --> 0:15:19.080 a deal is a deal, is a deal. When we 0:15:19.200 --> 0:15:22.280 became a state, we put this in our instruction manual 0:15:22.960 --> 0:15:26.320 or their constitution. Rather, you guys screwed up. You guys 0:15:26.360 --> 0:15:30.600 screwed up. That's not on us. Toledo is and will 0:15:30.640 --> 0:15:34.360 always be a part of Ohio as God intended it. 0:15:34.640 --> 0:15:39.120 In fact, in the early eighteen thirties, members of Congress 0:15:39.160 --> 0:15:45.920 from Ohio blocked a Michigan petition for statehood and tried 0:15:45.920 --> 0:15:50.600 to hold the Toledo strip, which they called it a hostage, 0:15:50.640 --> 0:15:52.800 and they said, look, you can't be a state. They 0:15:52.800 --> 0:15:55.840 didn't say give up Toledo. They said unless you admit 0:15:56.120 --> 0:15:59.480 that Toledo is ours. I mean, if we're being honest here, 0:16:00.000 --> 0:16:03.320 it's pretty scrappy of non state Michigan here, the way 0:16:03.360 --> 0:16:06.960 they're flexing on this claim, knowing that they themselves don't 0:16:06.960 --> 0:16:10.800 even have statehood yet, and that they're poking the bear 0:16:11.360 --> 0:16:15.520 in more ways than one. Right, Yeah, exactly. In eighteen 0:16:15.640 --> 0:16:20.600 thirty three, the US becomes divided on the issue the 0:16:20.760 --> 0:16:25.000 entirety of Congress. So the Senate says, okay, we're team Ohio. 0:16:25.080 --> 0:16:29.080 We side with Ohio. But the House of Representatives says, well, well, like, 0:16:29.240 --> 0:16:31.200 we're not just going to go along with you, guys. 0:16:31.760 --> 0:16:37.480 And then people say, Stevens Mason. That's his name, Stevens, 0:16:37.840 --> 0:16:38.480 that's Stevens. 0:16:38.720 --> 0:16:40.600 We're gonna get into some other really amazing names in 0:16:40.680 --> 0:16:43.160 this story later, but yeah, Stephens Mason. 0:16:43.520 --> 0:16:46.200 Yeah, he's the governor of the Michigan Territory again still 0:16:46.200 --> 0:16:48.280 not a state. And he says, hey, look, let's get 0:16:48.320 --> 0:16:51.280 a commission together to try to work this out. I 0:16:51.280 --> 0:16:54.000 think it's so funny, Stevens Mason. It should be flipped. 0:16:54.000 --> 0:16:56.760 It should be Mason Stevens. Yeah. It's the last name, 0:16:56.840 --> 0:17:00.280 first name, first name, last name vibe very like more 0:17:00.360 --> 0:17:02.440 than one. I have a I have a good friend 0:17:02.800 --> 0:17:08.520 whose name is Jame. He's just like what one James. 0:17:08.760 --> 0:17:12.080 Well, that was the name of Buffalo Bill in the 0:17:12.119 --> 0:17:13.000 Sounds of the Lambs movie. 0:17:13.040 --> 0:17:17.280 His name was Jame. Gum, isn't that right? Casey Goodbye Horses, 0:17:17.359 --> 0:17:19.639 That's right. Oh I thought it was James. No, it 0:17:19.680 --> 0:17:23.400 was Jame. Oh weird. I just rewatched the chase scene 0:17:23.440 --> 0:17:23.720 from that. 0:17:23.920 --> 0:17:28.000 I just rewatched the. 0:17:26.359 --> 0:17:32.640 The mirror scene, the case, not the mirror see. Of course, the. 0:17:32.600 --> 0:17:34.800 Mirror se That's the most iconic moment from that movie. 0:17:34.920 --> 0:17:37.280 That's the one part everyone remembers. Good Bye Horses and 0:17:37.359 --> 0:17:38.080 the mirror scene. 0:17:38.119 --> 0:17:40.600 I I remember the lotion on the skin part. That's 0:17:40.640 --> 0:17:43.040 also a good one. Did you know Anthony Hopkins is 0:17:43.040 --> 0:17:45.320 only in that movie like fourteen or fifteen minutes? Oh? 0:17:45.320 --> 0:17:48.200 Absolutely, yeah's hes a, he's a I mean, but it's 0:17:48.240 --> 0:17:50.680 it's a very powerful fourteen or fifteen minutes. 0:17:50.680 --> 0:17:55.119 It's true, uh speak powerful powerful fourteen or fifteen minutes. 0:17:55.320 --> 0:17:58.840 We have to wonder how long Governor Robert Lucas of 0:17:58.880 --> 0:18:04.560 Ohio took to evaluate Mason's appeal. Not that long. He 0:18:04.720 --> 0:18:08.359 pretty much instantly refused it. He said, we do not negotiate, 0:18:08.880 --> 0:18:12.399 and then he said, furthermore, in eighteen thirty five. This 0:18:12.520 --> 0:18:14.639 is when everything started to go really off the rails. 0:18:14.880 --> 0:18:18.480 He said, We're going to form our own county on 0:18:18.600 --> 0:18:21.960 the Toledo Strips. Now, don't call it the Toledo Strip now, 0:18:22.040 --> 0:18:25.440 it's Lucas County, Ohio. Yeah. 0:18:25.440 --> 0:18:32.080 And then Michigan flexes back against against Ohio, against Lucas 0:18:32.680 --> 0:18:35.639 and acts this series of laws called the Pains and 0:18:35.680 --> 0:18:37.920 Penalties Acts. And that's in February of eighteen thirty five, 0:18:38.119 --> 0:18:41.080 a law that said anyone found hanging out in said 0:18:41.119 --> 0:18:44.720 strip that supported Ohio could be sent to jail for 0:18:44.800 --> 0:18:47.280 up to five years and find a grand which at 0:18:47.280 --> 0:18:49.520 the time would have been equivalent to about twenty five 0:18:49.560 --> 0:18:53.720 thousand dollars. So Mason gets a thousand men a militia 0:18:54.600 --> 0:18:59.639 and stations them right inside of this area. And then Lucas, 0:18:59.760 --> 0:19:02.040 you know, maybe having access to fear men or thinking 0:19:02.080 --> 0:19:03.719 that it wasn't that big a deal because they, you know, 0:19:03.800 --> 0:19:07.439 we're big old state boys, sent six hundred men just 0:19:07.480 --> 0:19:09.080 to make sure that there wasn't some sort of like 0:19:09.720 --> 0:19:11.120 out and out blood bath. 0:19:11.320 --> 0:19:14.240 This is looking bad, really is oh Also, we should 0:19:14.280 --> 0:19:18.960 mention the governor of the not quite a state, Michigan territory. 0:19:19.080 --> 0:19:21.880 Stevens Mason. He is twenty three years old. 0:19:21.960 --> 0:19:24.439 Don't they call him the boy King or something like that, Golden, 0:19:24.560 --> 0:19:26.159 the Boy Governor, the boy Governor. 0:19:26.200 --> 0:19:30.639 Okay, yeah, yeah. So so now we have military forces 0:19:30.680 --> 0:19:36.280 moving in and this weird hearts and minds law supporting 0:19:36.320 --> 0:19:38.320 the state of Ohio. What does that mean? That can 0:19:38.400 --> 0:19:43.639 mean anything from being an official of the county they 0:19:43.760 --> 0:19:48.160 proposed Lucas County to say, Hey, I live in Toledo 0:19:48.520 --> 0:19:49.680 and I'm in Ohio. 0:19:49.720 --> 0:19:54.320 And also it's got that very kind of like gestapoy 0:19:54.520 --> 0:19:56.080 kind of idea of like what if you're just caught 0:19:56.119 --> 0:19:58.520 paling around with somebody from the other side. You know 0:19:58.800 --> 0:20:01.560 what if someone names n and you're one of the names, 0:20:01.600 --> 0:20:02.240 what gets name? 0:20:02.320 --> 0:20:03.879 Next thing? You know, you're sitting in the clink for 0:20:03.920 --> 0:20:08.280 five years and you're you know, one thousand dollars in 0:20:08.320 --> 0:20:11.719 debt which will be incredibly difficult to pay off. So 0:20:12.359 --> 0:20:17.840 the federal government tries to get these people to get along, 0:20:18.119 --> 0:20:20.840 despite the fact they're already active militias in the area. 0:20:22.000 --> 0:20:25.560 So on April ninth, eighteen thirty five, a posse led 0:20:25.600 --> 0:20:29.240 by a sheriff from Michigan rode into Toledo, and they 0:20:29.240 --> 0:20:31.680 did just what they were talking about. They arrested several 0:20:32.280 --> 0:20:37.840 state officials from Ohio and then newspapers who you imagine 0:20:37.960 --> 0:20:41.680 have to have loved the headline potential here. Newspapers said 0:20:41.720 --> 0:20:45.080 that an Ohio flag was torn down, dragged through the streets, 0:20:45.119 --> 0:20:50.000 and burned. People are poed. Really a lawless. 0:20:49.640 --> 0:20:53.080 Zone here, you know, because no one knows who's in charge, 0:20:53.119 --> 0:20:57.439 so everyone's kind of in charge, or it's kind I mean, 0:20:57.480 --> 0:20:58.720 it really is like a Wild West. 0:20:58.600 --> 0:21:03.080 Gone situation, but just in this little strip. So it escalates. 0:21:03.160 --> 0:21:07.199 My friend involves another sheriff from Michigan, this time a 0:21:07.280 --> 0:21:10.920 man named Joseph Wood, who attempts to enforce this pain 0:21:11.480 --> 0:21:17.520 and Penalties Act by arresting Major Benjamin Stickney, loving that 0:21:17.640 --> 0:21:20.480 name because he voted in an Ohio election. 0:21:21.480 --> 0:21:24.080 And this is fantastic the names. This is the name 0:21:25.440 --> 0:21:29.720 Dickney's sons, who are named one Stickney and two Stickney 0:21:30.040 --> 0:21:33.160 like the numbers O N E T W O. Yeah. 0:21:33.240 --> 0:21:37.960 They join in with their pops Stickney Sr. And they 0:21:38.040 --> 0:21:44.120 resist being arrested, and they they stab sheriff would with. 0:21:44.119 --> 0:21:48.440 A pocket knife, but not fatally. No, it's a it's 0:21:48.440 --> 0:21:51.479 a but a flesh wound. Really right, tis only a scratch? 0:21:51.520 --> 0:21:55.200 This but a scratch? Uh, funny story. I've got a 0:21:55.320 --> 0:21:58.840 I had a great aunt whose name was nine. Really, 0:21:59.520 --> 0:22:02.160 that's pretty cool. I like the idea of numbers for names. 0:22:02.359 --> 0:22:04.359 Me too, I met I met a dude named seven 0:22:04.440 --> 0:22:06.879 and he was so cool. He was not related to me. 0:22:06.920 --> 0:22:08.840 I only have one number name in my family. I 0:22:08.880 --> 0:22:12.440 like the name four. You like the name four? Huh? 0:22:12.480 --> 0:22:18.120 I mean six? A character on Blossom? There's six Smith 0:22:18.480 --> 0:22:22.760 in Cloud Atlas. Oh, okay, I haven't seen that. Yeah, 0:22:22.880 --> 0:22:24.879 I don't know. I'm partially for some reason, I'm partial 0:22:24.920 --> 0:22:28.240 to odd numbers for names. This has nothing to do 0:22:28.359 --> 0:22:31.880 with Michigan. In Ohio's Toledo War, what do you think 0:22:32.080 --> 0:22:34.600 is a great number for a name? 0:22:34.680 --> 0:22:36.600 There was a character named six on Blossom and he 0:22:36.720 --> 0:22:40.240 was six Lemeur played by oh Jenna von Oi. 0:22:40.680 --> 0:22:44.440 Another great name. These are great names. Yeah, I would 0:22:44.440 --> 0:22:46.159 go with a I would go with a nine or 0:22:46.200 --> 0:22:49.480 maybe a three. Yeah, I would go with the name three. Casey, 0:22:49.480 --> 0:22:51.160 do you have a number that you you think would 0:22:51.160 --> 0:22:53.639 make a good name? Twenty seven? I knew you were 0:22:53.640 --> 0:22:57.800 gonna Okay, Casey on the case he's thought about it, folks, 0:22:57.800 --> 0:23:06.640 He's thought about this lot. So this is the first 0:23:07.440 --> 0:23:13.439 violent physical altercation when the Michigan Sheriff Joseph Wood and 0:23:13.560 --> 0:23:18.040