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Speaker 1: Cool media.

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Speaker 2: Hey everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let

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Speaker 2: you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode

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Speaker 2: of the week that just happened is here in one

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Speaker 2: convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to

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Speaker 2: listen to in a long stretch if you want. If

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Speaker 2: you've been listening to the episodes every day this week,

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Speaker 2: there's going to be nothing new here for you, but

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Speaker 2: you can make your own decisions.

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Speaker 3: Hello everyone, and welcome to it could happen here. My

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Speaker 3: name is Dan al Kurd. I'm a professor of political

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Speaker 3: science and a researcher of Arab and Palestinian politics. Since

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Speaker 3: I last recorded an episode, those in power have been

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Speaker 3: very busy. The world looks different from a month ago.

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Speaker 3: What would the assault on Minneapolis, the kidnapping of Venezuelan

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Speaker 3: President Maduro, the as of this recording, possible invasion of Greenland.

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Speaker 3: It's been hard for even the best of us to

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Speaker 3: keep up as nemic from the series. And Or would

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Speaker 3: say the pace of repression outstrips our ability to understand it.

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Speaker 3: And that is the real trick of the imperial thought machine.

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Speaker 3: It's easier to hide behind forty atrocities than a single incident.

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Speaker 3: I will never not squeeze in an end or reference

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Speaker 3: when I can, given that this is the state of

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Speaker 3: the world. What's happening in Palestine has largely slipped out

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Speaker 3: of most people's feeds and certainly the media headlines. But

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Speaker 3: lots is happening, Lots of dangerous things are happening, and

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Speaker 3: I'm going to take this episode to give an update

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Speaker 3: of about what's been going on. Since the ceasefire was

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Speaker 3: announced three months ago, four hundred and forty nine Palestinians

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Speaker 3: have been killed by Israeli attacks and another one thousand,

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Speaker 3: two hundred and forty six have been injured. Over one

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Speaker 3: hundred of those killed were children. According to YUNISEF, the

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Speaker 3: Gaza strip has been reduced even further with a new

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Speaker 3: quote yellow line demarcating where Israeli troops will remain and

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Speaker 3: where Palestinians are not allowed to go. They literally placed

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Speaker 3: concrete yellow blocks on the ground in Gaza, and as

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Speaker 3: the BBC notes from a report January sixteenth of this year,

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Speaker 3: Israel continues to push the yellow line further and further

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Speaker 3: into what remains of Gaza. The United Nations Office for

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Speaker 3: the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs notes quote, the Israeli military

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Speaker 3: remains deployed in over fifty percent of the Gaza strip

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Speaker 3: beyond the yellow line, where access to humanitarian facilities and assets,

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Speaker 3: public infrastructure, and agricultural land are either restricted or prohibited.

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Speaker 3: In this context, and despite this context, the Trump administration

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Speaker 3: has declared that Phase one of the ceasefire agreement is

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Speaker 3: now over and that Phase two will commence.

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Speaker 4: The US has announced the launch of the second phase

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Speaker 4: of the Gaza ceasefire Agreement. Special Envoys Steve Whitcoff shared

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Speaker 4: the news in a social media post, writing that Phase

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Speaker 4: two establishes a t transitional, technocratic Palestinian administration in Gaza,

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Speaker 4: the National Committee for the Administration of Gaza. He also

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Speaker 4: wrote that it begins the full demilitarization and reconstruction of Gaza,

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Speaker 4: primarily the disarmament of all unauthorized personnel. Whitkoff says the

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Speaker 4: US expects AMASS to comply fully with its obligations, including

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Speaker 4: the immediate return of the final deceased hostage, and warns

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Speaker 4: that the failure to do so will bring serious consequences.

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Speaker 3: Now, this is the declaration, even though really aside from

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Speaker 3: the return of Israeli hostages. No part of the twenty

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Speaker 3: point plan that the Trump administration put forward as the

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Speaker 3: quote peace Plan was realized. On the ground, it is

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Speaker 3: being let in, but not at the levels that it's needed.

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Speaker 3: Attacks against Pastinians haven't stopped. Nonetheless, Phase two is apparently

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Speaker 3: starting with the naming of members of the Board of Peace. Now,

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Speaker 3: if listeners will recall from a previous episode, Trump declared

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Speaker 3: himself the chair of this Board of Peace that's supposed

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Speaker 3: to bring peace to the Middle East, and Tony Blair

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Speaker 3: was tapped to run it, much to the outrage of

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Speaker 3: anyone who witnessed Blair's cooperation and the destruction of Iraq. Now,

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Speaker 3: this Board of Piece is going to run the Gaza

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Speaker 3: strip and it's quote unquote technocratic government, and it's going

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Speaker 3: to make sure how Masty militarizes and that Palestinians don't

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Speaker 3: step out of line. The Board of Peace is one

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Speaker 3: aspect of the Great Plan, Great Standing for Gaza Reconstitution,

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Speaker 3: Economic Acceleration and Transformation Plan, a plan that apparently will

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Speaker 3: turn Gaza into the quote riviera of the Middle East.

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Speaker 3: The Huffington Post reported January seventeenth that Trump is setting

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Speaker 3: a billion dollar price tag for any country that wants

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Speaker 3: to participate on this board. Members so far include Tony Blair,

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Speaker 3: Secretary of State, Marco Rubio son in law, Jared Kushner,

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Speaker 3: US Special Envoy to the Middle East, Steve Witkoff, Mark Rowan,

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Speaker 3: the CEO of Apollo Global Management, Israeli billionaire Yakir Gabay,

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Speaker 3: and a number of others along the same vein. Among

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Speaker 3: those Trump has invited include Vladimir Putin, famously very interested

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Speaker 3: in peace and not at all in eradicating Ukrainian existence.

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Speaker 3: Trump also sent a letter to Victor Orban, far right

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Speaker 3: wing president of Hungary, to join the Board of Peace.

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Speaker 3: Orbon has apparently accepted this invitation. To remind listeners, Orbon

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Speaker 3: is one of Trump's models for authoritary takeover of democratic institutions.

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Speaker 3: Orbon is also very close ties with Prime Minister Nittanyahu

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Speaker 3: in Israel, despite his anti Semitic politics. Now, I thought

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Speaker 3: the letter he sent to Orbon and to every other

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Speaker 3: right wing politician he's been inviting was quite telling. In

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Speaker 3: the letter, Trump invites Orbon to join, presumably with the

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Speaker 3: billion dollar pay to play, and calls the Board of

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Speaker 3: Peace a quote bold new approach to resolving global conflict.

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Speaker 3: Reuter is reporting on this issue, an anonymous diplomat saying

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Speaker 3: it's a trump United Nations that ignores the fundamentals of

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Speaker 3: the UN charter. In fact, the charter of the Board

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Speaker 3: of Peace doesn't even mention Gaza. So what is this

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Speaker 3: bold new approach to resolving global conflict. It's apparently a

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Speaker 3: resolution to conflict that includes a neocolonial oversight board run

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Speaker 3: by white men to make sure the natives don't get

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Speaker 3: too excited. Now, this oversight board is intended to manage conflict,

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Speaker 3: because let's be clear, this isn't about solving conflict at

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Speaker 3: the expense of the people who have been facing the

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Speaker 3: brunt of this conflict. So we should take them at

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Speaker 3: their word that this is going to be the way

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Speaker 3: that global conflict is going to be resolved from now on.

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Speaker 3: This is the blueprint. Gaza is only the test case,

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Speaker 3: and in this new form of authoritarian conflict management, the

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Speaker 3: world will operate without any pretensions under the premise of

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Speaker 3: might is right. And if the Gaza Reconstitution, Economic Acceleration

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Speaker 3: and Transformation Plan is any indication, this plan is predicated

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Speaker 3: on encouraging Palestinians to ultimately leave Gaza at least some

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Speaker 3: significant segment of them. So not only might is right,

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Speaker 3: but ethnic cleansing is a more than fine way to

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Speaker 3: resolve a dispute. And finally, the plan is predicated on

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Speaker 3: the idea that reconstruction is a business opportunity, so to review,

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Speaker 3: might is right, ethnic cleansing is AOK, and war is

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Speaker 3: a prime real estate development opportunity. Now things get even

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Speaker 3: worse when we bring in the guy who's been tapped

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Speaker 3: to be the director general of this board. Nikolay Maladanov

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Speaker 3: is a Bulgarian politician an x UN envoy who has

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Speaker 3: been tasked with quote, disarming Gaza. According to a report

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Speaker 3: by Al Jazur published January fifteenth, he's the guy who's

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Speaker 3: going to oversee the National Committee for the Administration of Gaza,

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Speaker 3: the technocratic government, which is run by a Postinian bureaucrats,

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Speaker 3: and make sure that they stay in line during the

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Speaker 3: reconstruction phase. Somehow, these bureaucrats are supposed to reconstruct Gaza

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Speaker 3: while not being able to operate in most of it anyway.

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Speaker 3: Mad enough, this guy is really something. He's a Bulgarian

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Speaker 3: diplomat that worked as a minister for one of the

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Speaker 3: most corrupt governments in Bulgaria, a government that faced mass

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Speaker 3: protest pretty persistently. He is part of a right wing

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Speaker 3: populist party in Bulgaria. His father was also involved in politics,

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Speaker 3: specifically in the Bulgarian Virgin of the Kgib before the

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Speaker 3: transition from the communist regime. Since twenty twenty one, he's

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Speaker 3: been working in an Amarati institution, the Unwar Gagaesh Diplomatic Academy,

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Speaker 3: where he came out as a quote vocal proponent of

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Speaker 3: the Abrahamic courts, the normalization agreements between Israel and several

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Speaker 3: Arab states. Now it all checks out on that this

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Speaker 3: is the guy who's going to be the director general.

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Speaker 3: The fact that this person is the one being chosen

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Speaker 3: for phase two of the ceasefire, and the fact that

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Speaker 3: he has this kind of political background should make clear

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Speaker 3: that the Plant for Gaza isn't just a blueprint for

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Speaker 3: the world new levels of authoritarian conflict management with no pretense,

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Speaker 3: but also a part and parcel of the US Israeli

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Speaker 3: Imrati vision for the region. Now, this vision is one

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Speaker 3: where Arab authoritarian regimes and Israel, with the US supporting,

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Speaker 3: remake the Middle East into a quote modern, developed tolerant

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Speaker 3: Middle East, essentially by pouring concrete over graves and building

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Speaker 3: mega cities on top of rubble. Their vision of the

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Speaker 3: Middle East is one that is authoritarian and contained. More

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Speaker 3: citizens are subjects. These subjects can have some social freedoms

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Speaker 3: and maybe some economic opportunities, but should never think that

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Speaker 3: they can have an opinion on anything that happens to them.

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Speaker 3: This is a vision where states like the UA the

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Speaker 3: United Arab Emirates can arm militias to conduct ethnic cleansing

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Speaker 3: in Sudan, and Israel can get away with ethnic cleansing

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Speaker 3: in Palestine because ethnic cleansing and genocide are apparently a

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Speaker 3: perfectly reasonable way of getting rid of undesirables. Now, I'm

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Speaker 3: not saying that this isn't how these states operated even

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Speaker 3: before the genocide in Gaza, and I'm not saying it

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Speaker 3: wasn't how the US allowed certain allies to operate even

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Speaker 3: before Trump. Perhaps the writing was on the wall when

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Speaker 3: Palestinians were indefinitely occupied and no one cared, or when

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Speaker 3: Artzach was ethnically cleansed and Azerbaijan got away with it.

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Speaker 3: President Biden gave his blessing to the destruction of Gaza

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Speaker 3: after October seventh. After all, but there used to be

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Speaker 3: a pretense, a pretense of international law and a quote

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Speaker 3: liberal international order. There also used to be variation on

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Speaker 3: these issues. This type of authority and conflict management wasn't

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Speaker 3: always tolerated. In fact, Arab liberals who advocated for democracy

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Speaker 3: would often say that the US this is different from

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Speaker 3: China or Russia in that, at least it was committed

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Speaker 3: to democracy and international law and human rights rhetorically, even

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Speaker 3: if there was hypocrisy. They thought that that space between

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Speaker 3: reality and rhetoric could be leveraged and exploited. But now

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Speaker 3: there's nothing to be leveraged. Authoritarian conflict management is the

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Speaker 3: motors separandee of powerful states, and according to Donald Trump's

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Speaker 3: new doctrine, the Don Rohde Doctrine, each powerful state gets

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Speaker 3: to do what it wants in its own sphere of influence.

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Speaker 3: In fact, not only is territorial aggression valid, it's actually

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Speaker 3: the way the world should work. According to all of

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Speaker 3: Trump's spokespeople and parts of his administration, conquest is totally fine.

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Speaker 3: Here's Stephen Miller on Greenland, for example.

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Speaker 5: Under every understanding of law that has existed about territorial

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Speaker 5: control for five hundred years. To control a territory, you

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Speaker 5: have to be able to defend a territory, prove a

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Speaker 5: territory inhabit a territory. Denmark has feeled that every single

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Speaker 5: one of these tasks.

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Speaker 3: So Gaza is indeed the blueprint for what happens to

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Speaker 3: weaker states in war, or what happens in this case

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Speaker 3: to stateless people deemed undesirable and expendable. Now, what are

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Speaker 3: the Palestinians saying about all this? The technocratic government made

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Speaker 3: up of Palestinian bureaucrats, is saying it's committed to a

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Speaker 3: reconstruction of Gaza that is rooted in quote, peace, democracy

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Speaker 3: and justice. The Palestinian Authority, the largely illegitimate and undemocratic

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Speaker 3: governance body that apparently governs the West Bank somehow and

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Speaker 3: represents Palestinians. They're putting out statements welcoming the Board of

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Speaker 3: Peace and Trump's vision, maybe because they think this will

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Speaker 3: earn them a seat at the table, or maybe it's

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Speaker 3: a way to sideline their main opposition, Hamas, in whatever

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Speaker 3: crumbs of Palestine they're allowed to control in the future.

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Speaker 3: Hamas has said in a statement that they also welcome

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Speaker 3: the formation of the Administrative Committee for the Kaza strips

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Speaker 3: to quote a chief calm in Gaza while noting that

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Speaker 3: they are working with mediators to get to the next

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Speaker 3: stage of the ceasefire, and they accuses you of trying

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Speaker 3: to break the ceasefire agreement. The Israeli government ironically rejects

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Speaker 3: any Palstinian involvement, even at the technocratic level, and have

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Speaker 3: vowed to take it up with their front Trump and

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Speaker 3: the Palestinian people. Well, here is Gazen journalist Hendro Darev

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Speaker 3: al Jazir English.

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Speaker 4: And what has been the reaction in Gaza to that

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Speaker 4: announcement of a move to Phase two.

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Speaker 6: Well, just like you said, it an announcement, a symbolic

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Speaker 6: announcement two Phase two. Palatinians did not see anything on

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Speaker 6: the ground.

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Speaker 7: There's no change.

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Speaker 6: And despite all of that, we're still hearing drones as

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Speaker 6: you can hear in the background. We also heard a

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Speaker 6: couple of explosions since the early hours of the morning

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Speaker 6: were demolishings are still going on across the Gazza strip, especially.

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Speaker 8: After the yellow line.

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Speaker 6: Palatinians are frustrated, they're very disappointed. They thought that Phase

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Speaker 6: two would give them the freedom of movement.

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Speaker 8: That would give them.

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Speaker 6: Reconstruction of Gaza would also give them a little bit

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Speaker 6: of what they lost. But on the ground, nothing happened,

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Speaker 6: nothing changed. What we know so far is there are

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Speaker 6: fifteen members that have been approved on to be ruling Gaza.

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Speaker 6: But there are a lot of questions and concerns. How

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Speaker 6: is this going to happen, What is going to happen

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Speaker 6: to the people here, the reconstruction, the rough crossing, thousands

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Speaker 6: who need to get education, and also people who need

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Speaker 6: to travel abroad to either get their treatment to get

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Speaker 6: to reunite with their family. So there's a lot of questions,

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Speaker 6: but mainly there is a lot of frustration because there's

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Speaker 6: nothing changing on the ground.

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Speaker 3: People in Gaza are beyond exhaustion. Everyone wants some path

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Speaker 3: forward out of this nightmare. But I really don't think,

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Speaker 3: for all the reasons I described here today that this

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Speaker 3: is it and we shouldn't let them, the Trumps and

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Speaker 3: or Bonds and billionaires of the world, get away with

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Speaker 3: the narrative that they're peacemakers and that apparently this is

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Speaker 3: all in the name of tolerance and peace. That's it

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Speaker 3: for me today. Thank you for listening, and hope you're

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Speaker 3: all Staying Safe.

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Speaker 8: Hello, Welcome to Cool People, did Cool Stuff Slash it

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Speaker 8: could happen here episode And this is a little pickup

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Speaker 8: we inserted because James and I Hi, James, Hi, Margaret

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Speaker 8: and Margaret, that's James. We're on each other's shows this week.

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Speaker 8: We just spent three days in Minneapolis culminating in the

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Speaker 8: general strike last Friday, and we were there to cover

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Speaker 8: the rapid response networks and the mutual aid networks that

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Speaker 8: people have been building, and that's what we're going to

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Speaker 8: be talking about in these two episodes. But the reason

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Speaker 8: that we're recording this little pickup right here to listen

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Speaker 8: to at the front of it is that nine hours

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Speaker 8: after we finished recording these episodes, shortly after both of

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Speaker 8: us had left the city, a man named Alex Pretty

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Speaker 8: was killed by federal agents in what is obviously something

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Speaker 8: that you all are familiar with. And we just kind

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Speaker 8: of want to mark that because I think the tone

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Speaker 8: in what we're talking about right now is we're so

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Speaker 8: excited about these networks that people have been building. But

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Speaker 8: obviously the tone would have changed a little bit had

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Speaker 8: we recorded it only nine hours later, and we would

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Speaker 8: have been talking about something slightly different. And that's just

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Speaker 8: the breaks of podcasting.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, the fundamental message, I guess wouldn't change, but we

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Speaker 9: all know that that doing what these people do can

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Speaker 9: have terrible costs, and we were reminded of that again.

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Speaker 9: Yeah Saturday morning. I guess we should just say that, like,

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Speaker 9: we agree his passing and we're sending her thoughts to

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Speaker 9: his family and the people who loved him. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 9: gonna be a really hard time for them.

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Speaker 8: Absolutely, Hello, and welcome to Cool People Could Happen Here.

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Speaker 8: I'm one of your hosts, Margaret Kiljoy, and with me

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Speaker 8: today as my other host is James. Hi. Margaret, we

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Speaker 8: are doing a special crossover episode of it Could Happen

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Speaker 8: Here and Cool People who did cool stuff. And we're

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Speaker 8: doing it because James and I are in sunny Minneapolis,

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Speaker 8: which is true.

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Speaker 9: The sun was out. Yeah, yeah, I saw the sun. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 9: I saw it through a cloud.

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Speaker 8: Of cold, cold air, the vapor of our own breath freezing.

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Speaker 8: I have seen more people today with frozen eyelashes than

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Speaker 8: any other point in my life. But together.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, I breathed into my goggles briefly and that froze,

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Speaker 9: yeah from my eyes. Yeah, yeah, it was minus thirty

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Speaker 9: fahrenheight feel I guess with wind shill, what is that

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Speaker 9: and what is that in Celsius they come together at

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Speaker 9: minus forty, So it's going to be like minus thirty five.

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Speaker 8: I think something like that. It was.

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Speaker 9: It was for those who are not familiar cold, very cold.

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Speaker 8: And so the two of us came up to Minneapolis

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Speaker 8: a few days ago and we have spent the past

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Speaker 8: three days here talking to everyone we can about the

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Speaker 8: rapid response networks that people have built to try to

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Speaker 8: keep themselves and their neighbors safe from ice and federal

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Speaker 8: oppression and the sort of federal occupation of the city,

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Speaker 8: and so what we thought we would do this is

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Speaker 8: kind of Neither of us have written scripts. Yet we

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Speaker 8: are still here. We just had a fun, slightly hectic

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Speaker 8: day where we spent only about twenty minutes reasonably sure

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Speaker 8: we were getting arrested. We didn't get arrested. No, thank you, comrade. Train.

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Speaker 8: Yeah we got on a LA rail and we're able

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Speaker 8: to leave a kettle by a light rail, which is

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Speaker 8: a new experience for me. Yeah, I'm very European. Yeah,

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Speaker 8: and yeah, we came up here to talk to people

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Speaker 8: and that's been the like the story that I'm most

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Speaker 8: interested in, right, is that we have all of these

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Speaker 8: stories that are absolutely true. The stakes are really high here,

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Speaker 8: but the things that people are building here are really incredible,

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Speaker 8: and people know that they're holding down ice here in

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Speaker 8: a way that no one would have expected, I think,

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Speaker 8: And I don't know, So, yeah, you want to Should

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Speaker 8: we just talk about kind of our days? Yeah?

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Speaker 9: I think I just want to ground people before we

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Speaker 9: do that in that so much as if reporting on

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Speaker 9: Minneapolis has focused on trauma, and so much reporting on

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Speaker 9: migrants focuses on trauma, right, And I think people who

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Speaker 9: have listened to our podcast know that that's not really

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Speaker 9: a game, and so I understand when they hear that

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Speaker 9: we've been in Minneapolis, I think we're going to talk

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Speaker 9: about horrific things that we've seen. I want to talk

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Speaker 9: more about the beautiful things that we've seen, because I

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Speaker 9: think those get missed and they're super important, especially if

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Speaker 9: you're listening in another city in the US which will

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Speaker 9: face some degree of this or is facing some degree

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Speaker 9: of this. Right, So I want to ground this in

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Speaker 9: saying that rather than talking about the trauma people experiencing,

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Speaker 9: which I'm sure will be incidental, I want to talk

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Speaker 9: about how closely people are holding each other here and

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Speaker 9: how special that is and what we can take from it.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, and like without obviously we're like, we're not trying

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Speaker 8: to paint a rosy picture of what's happening here, because

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Speaker 8: what's happening here is like I must I'm a cold

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Speaker 8: hearted journalists, historian person, And I was crying the multiple

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Speaker 8: times in the past couple days as people told me

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Speaker 8: about some of the stuff they've experienced. But some of

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Speaker 8: it has been you know, we've asked people, We've said, like, hey,

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Speaker 8: what do you want people to take away from this?

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Speaker 8: And one of the main things is that kind of

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Speaker 8: a like hey, you can do it too kind of thing.

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Speaker 8: And the other thing that people have talked about is

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Speaker 8: like it would be really nice for people to see

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Speaker 8: that what we're doing is amazing here, even if it's

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Speaker 8: like coming out of such such horrendous adversity. Yeah.

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Speaker 9: Like one of the things that I've taken throughout my

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Speaker 9: career is in hard times, we can build beautiful things. Yeah,

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Speaker 9: That's what I wrote my book about, really. Yeah, and

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Speaker 9: what I've tried to report.

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Speaker 8: On all out of the world.

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Speaker 9: They think this is more evidence of that, and so

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Speaker 9: like you're going to hear things which were amazing and

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Speaker 9: the people who've done them are wonderful, but they're not

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Speaker 9: uniquely special. You can do all these things too, and like,

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Speaker 9: I want you to see that it is possible where

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Speaker 9: you live.

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Speaker 8: Yeah. So one of the first things that we did

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Speaker 8: when we got here we talked about, you know, to

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Speaker 8: put ourselves in the story. I drove a long way

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Speaker 8: and James flew a long way and yeah, you know,

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Speaker 8: I picked up Jane at the airport and we came

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Speaker 8: to where we're staying and we were talking about like

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Speaker 8: and it was late at night and we're like, all right,

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Speaker 8: what are we what are we trying to do tomorrow?

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Speaker 8: And what are we trying to see and what are

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Speaker 8: we trying to learn? Yeah, And one of the main

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Speaker 8: things one of the first questions we had was like,

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Speaker 8: what's the scale of what's happening here? Yeah? Right, Like,

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Speaker 8: like what were your impressions of the scale of what

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Speaker 8: was happening? Mmm? We should talk about what's happening here.

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Speaker 8: It's like really quickly, I bet you all know about

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Speaker 8: it in the news. Why do I have a different

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Speaker 8: tone of voice when I'm talking into a microphone in

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Speaker 8: this way, and so usually I'm in a zoom call.

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Speaker 8: But I staid, we're both sitting in a bedroom on

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Speaker 8: opposite ends of the bedroom talking into microphones, and I

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Speaker 8: somehow have a different cadence, and I don't know how

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Speaker 8: I feel about it. Also, I've had to drink caffeine,

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Speaker 8: which I don't do, because we've had to do an

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Speaker 8: awful lot. And anyway, what was I about to ask you.

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Speaker 9: How widespread stuff is?

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Speaker 10: Oh?

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Speaker 8: Yeah, like, well, what was your okay? We were to

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Speaker 8: talk about what's happening here?

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Speaker 9: But yeah, so if people aren't for media, werey ICE,

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Speaker 9: which is Immigration and Customs Enforcement. They're the agency charged

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Speaker 9: with removing people from the United States who are non citizens,

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Speaker 9: right who are considered deportable. Specifically, the branch of Immigration

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Speaker 9: and Customs Enforcement that we are seeing here is Enforcement

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Speaker 9: Removal Operations aka e o O. We're also seeing border

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Speaker 9: patrol right in the last year, actually more than a

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Speaker 9: year now, right this began under the bad deministration with

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Speaker 9: Operation Return to Sender in the Central Valley of California.

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Speaker 9: We are seeing border patrol agents used to do internal

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Speaker 9: enforcement right of people who are generally documented sometimes undocumented

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Speaker 9: but always non citizens. They are detaining them in the street,

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Speaker 9: they are detaining them outside schools, They're detaining them at

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Speaker 9: the bus stop, They're detaining them at places to work.

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Speaker 9: And when I say detaining, that's as they are grabbing

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Speaker 9: people out of cars. They're snatching children and using them

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Speaker 9: to bait out their parents. They're smashing people's car windows

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Speaker 9: and pulling them out. They're barging into businesses. In one case,

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Speaker 9: they at at a Mexican restaurant and then arrested the

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Speaker 9: workers later that day. I've visited a lot of places

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Speaker 9: where terrible things happen.

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Speaker 8: Right.

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Speaker 9: The ship that is happening here, it's a ship that

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Speaker 9: people come to America to get away from. Yeah, it

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Speaker 9: is men in masks with guns pulling people who have

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Speaker 9: done nothing wrong, who are here not harming anyone. People

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Speaker 9: who do not have criminal records. Just for the I

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Speaker 9: don't feel like I need to say that on this show,

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Speaker 9: but I need to say that every time I talk

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Speaker 9: about this. Right, like, the vast majority, something like eighty

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Speaker 9: percent last time I know to the status of these

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Speaker 9: people have no criminal records, and a criminal record could

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Speaker 9: be something like fucking parking in the wrong place.

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Speaker 8: I've been arrested. Yeah. Also, I don't care. I would

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Speaker 8: give you a lot of crime. Everyone listening to this

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Speaker 8: has done a lot of crime. Whether or not you've

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Speaker 8: been caught, you're probably cried.

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Speaker 9: Yeah you went a little bit too late through a

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Speaker 9: red light whatever, Like, I don't think that matters, actually exactly,

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Speaker 9: even if you're a lib, even if you believe it

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Speaker 9: or justice system is fair, it should be fair for everyone.

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Speaker 9: There shouldn't be different consequences for different people. Let's move

434
00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:10,320
Speaker 9: past that, right, So, how wide spread is this? Margaret

435
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:14,080
Speaker 9: and I got in late, We sat up even later talking.

436
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:15,840
Speaker 9: We got the shitty vegan pizza.

437
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:21,760
Speaker 8: We ate it. We kind of was, yeah, I've had better.

438
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:22,840
Speaker 8: I won't name drop.

439
00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:29,160
Speaker 9: We we woke up the next morning and within five

440
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:32,960
Speaker 9: minutes while waking up, we heard like beat beep.

441
00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:33,880
Speaker 8: Coming down the street. Yeah.

442
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:36,800
Speaker 9: Both Margaret and I ran to the front door, spent

443
00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:40,200
Speaker 9: a while trying to put on snow boots, and watched

444
00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:43,880
Speaker 9: an Ice agent rolling down the street in what they

445
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:47,359
Speaker 9: normally drive in, right, which a rental SUVs with the

446
00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:51,760
Speaker 9: windows blacked out, and people following them alerting the block

447
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:53,440
Speaker 9: the Ice was here, right.

448
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:56,639
Speaker 8: Yeah, and we're not downtown. We like picked an area

449
00:25:56,680 --> 00:26:00,000
Speaker 8: that's like slightly lightly out of it, but we got

450
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:02,600
Speaker 8: warned that nowhere is goon free. Yeah, and they were right,

451
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:03,520
Speaker 8: nowhere is good free.

452
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:03,760
Speaker 7: Right.

453
00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 9: I mean we have probably been within a thirty minute

454
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:10,680
Speaker 9: radius of the spot we're staying at for three or

455
00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:11,240
Speaker 9: four days.

456
00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:11,520
Speaker 8: Right.

457
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:14,760
Speaker 9: We've seen ICE pile their car into a telephone pole.

458
00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:20,560
Speaker 9: We've seen spent munitions on the floor, Ice tear gas

459
00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:22,280
Speaker 9: and people a few blocks from us, but they were

460
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:25,800
Speaker 9: gone by the time we got there. And I don't

461
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:27,399
Speaker 9: want to get this out like front and center at

462
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:30,720
Speaker 9: the start, it was not Ice who kettle protesters. Today,

463
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:34,600
Speaker 9: it was Hennepin County Sheriff's office. It was not Ice

464
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:37,200
Speaker 9: who arrested people who approached them with their hands in

465
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:38,800
Speaker 9: the air trying to work out what was going on.

466
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:42,160
Speaker 9: That was Helipin County Sheriff's office. I've seen press conferences

467
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:45,000
Speaker 9: with Minneapolis police. I don't know what their deal is.

468
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:47,320
Speaker 9: I'll tell you the Hennepin County Sheriff's office for actively

469
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:51,520
Speaker 9: participating in this. Right, I'm not buying this local cops good.

470
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:55,959
Speaker 9: This will shock listeners. I'm not buying the local cops good.

471
00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:59,520
Speaker 9: Federal cops. Bad narrative when cops get asked what site

472
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:01,040
Speaker 9: they're on? Now the side of the other cops.

473
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:03,960
Speaker 8: Well, it's interesting because the thing that you have is

474
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:06,439
Speaker 8: that you have you know, there's the great classic like

475
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:08,520
Speaker 8: if those were neutral in times of oppression or siding

476
00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:12,040
Speaker 8: with the oppressors, right, Yeah, because the overall situation here,

477
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:15,280
Speaker 8: it seems to be, is that you do have much

478
00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:18,320
Speaker 8: more the oppressive force here as an outside forces compared

479
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:20,640
Speaker 8: to any other protest movement I've seen in the United States.

480
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:23,879
Speaker 8: People are very aware that it is outsiders who have

481
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:26,920
Speaker 8: come to their city to steal their neighbors.

482
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:28,600
Speaker 7: Yeah, right, And.

483
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:33,240
Speaker 8: So because of that, the federal forces are the forces

484
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:35,680
Speaker 8: everyone's mad at, whereas a lot of the people who

485
00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:39,080
Speaker 8: are standing up to federal forces are neutral or fine

486
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:42,040
Speaker 8: with police, and even like the concept of other federal agencies.

487
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:45,000
Speaker 8: They just don't want people snatching neighbors. Now that's not universal,

488
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:47,000
Speaker 8: but it's like some of the people we've talked to. Yeah,

489
00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:52,000
Speaker 8: but what state level law enforcement has decided is that

490
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:54,760
Speaker 8: they are committed to keeping the peace and they can't

491
00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:58,720
Speaker 8: keep the peace against ice, which they probably on some

492
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:01,200
Speaker 8: level morally know that they need into but they don't

493
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:03,240
Speaker 8: and instead they're like, all right, well we can mess

494
00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:04,280
Speaker 8: up with the you know.

495
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:07,479
Speaker 9: The protest. We protested the great protested, right.

496
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:11,160
Speaker 8: But yeah, like when we saw people drive down honking

497
00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:13,400
Speaker 8: the very first thing that we experienced in this town,

498
00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:16,359
Speaker 8: and we weren't sure what it was. We were like,

499
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:19,439
Speaker 8: that is that people following ice and honking. And I

500
00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 8: had done a fair amount of research before I came,

501
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:24,639
Speaker 8: and I kind of knew about the whistles, and but

502
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:27,960
Speaker 8: I didn't really know about this like incredible network that

503
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:28,720
Speaker 8: people have built.

504
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:33,000
Speaker 9: Yeah, that what we saw was not in any way exceptional, right,

505
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:35,639
Speaker 9: that was just a standard treat on a Wednesday morning.

506
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:38,600
Speaker 8: Yeah, And so we get into we get into my

507
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:41,040
Speaker 8: vehicle and we start driving. You know, we have some

508
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 8: places we think we're going to go check out. We

509
00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:45,239
Speaker 8: have some you know, friends who are local who are

510
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:48,760
Speaker 8: going to talk to us. And we get like two

511
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:54,480
Speaker 8: blocks three blocks before we find people protecting Somali daycare. Yeah.

512
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:57,000
Speaker 9: Right, we uh, well before that, right, we went to

513
00:28:57,080 --> 00:28:59,120
Speaker 9: the food c up to get food. Yeah, And we

514
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:02,560
Speaker 9: went into the food we got our food, and on

515
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 9: the way out, we see this big old sign on

516
00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 9: the door which is like we're closed on the twenty

517
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:09,440
Speaker 9: third ice out of Minnesota. Yeah, I sat in Minneapolis

518
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:11,160
Speaker 9: whatever it is, and it's in English and Spanish, and

519
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:13,800
Speaker 9: it's like, in solidarity with our migrant neighbors, we're not opening.

520
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:14,920
Speaker 8: Yeah, And like.

521
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:17,800
Speaker 9: Obviously it's a food cut op, right, it's not a

522
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 9: reactionary space that sort of planted a seed for me, Like, ah,

523
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:23,640
Speaker 9: like this is a big ass business, you know, like

524
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:27,440
Speaker 9: like it's not a business that necessarily relies on migrant labor.

525
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:28,720
Speaker 9: But I can see it being a space for people

526
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:31,640
Speaker 9: in solidarity. I wonder how why that is right? And

527
00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 9: they even in the time we've been here, I've seen

528
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:37,800
Speaker 9: businesses put those up that didn't happen. We were going

529
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:40,560
Speaker 9: out on Wednesday, right, like people being like, nah, this

530
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:44,800
Speaker 9: isn't right, but yeah, to go back. We What happened

531
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:48,320
Speaker 9: was that Margaret was driving. I was riding next to Margaret.

532
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:50,600
Speaker 9: I saw a group of people, one guy ahead, kind

533
00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:54,480
Speaker 9: of tanned trousers on and I was like stop, Margaret.

534
00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:58,320
Speaker 9: Margaret slowed down, signaled and turned into the parking lot.

535
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:00,920
Speaker 9: Of these folks were apt and they they had seen

536
00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:03,240
Speaker 9: us right ham on the brakes and turn up in

537
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:06,880
Speaker 9: a vehicle with that estate plates. Then we then we

538
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:08,960
Speaker 9: better go speak to these people. We probably scared them.

539
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:12,920
Speaker 8: What's fin is we thought we scared them. No, yeah,

540
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:15,800
Speaker 8: they're not scared of us. No, they're looking to see

541
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 8: if they're onto us. And it's such a huge difference,

542
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:21,160
Speaker 8: right right, because when people are scoping us out, they're

543
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:23,320
Speaker 8: not like, oh, that might be ice. They're like, is

544
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 8: that ice? Let's fucking get them.

545
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:25,080
Speaker 10: Yeah.

546
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:27,760
Speaker 9: Yeah, like if that's ice, we need to roll right,

547
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:29,280
Speaker 9: we need to we need to let people know, we

548
00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:30,760
Speaker 9: need to start honking, we need start whistling.

549
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:31,000
Speaker 8: Yeah.

550
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:32,640
Speaker 9: So we get out, walk over and we start talking

551
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:35,800
Speaker 9: to these people. And like, the person who was most

552
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:39,600
Speaker 9: forth right, most forthcoming was an older lady. I mean

553
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:41,480
Speaker 9: she shared her ragel. I think it's fine to say.

554
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:45,320
Speaker 9: I think seventy six. Yeah, it's probably a round zero

555
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:49,800
Speaker 9: fair andheigh, like even like that warmer than that, right, so,

556
00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:52,720
Speaker 9: like you know minus ten celsius something there.

557
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:56,600
Speaker 8: Yeah, plate's not wearing a hat. Yeah, just give a fuck. Yeah,

558
00:30:56,640 --> 00:31:00,160
Speaker 8: I'm chilly in my brand new winter clothes. Yeah, I

559
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:02,280
Speaker 8: live outside in the mountain. I don't live outside anymore,

560
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:03,960
Speaker 8: but I live in the mountains.

561
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:07,560
Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, I'm wearing all my nice technical gear show

562
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:13,200
Speaker 9: on to Parker and yeah, and she's just like so zealous,

563
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:17,560
Speaker 9: is like she's so happy to be doing what she's doing,

564
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:20,000
Speaker 9: and so proud of herself for being the person who

565
00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:23,120
Speaker 9: did it. Yeah, and in an earnest way, like in

566
00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:25,560
Speaker 9: a way that a self congratulatory way, but just in

567
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:27,360
Speaker 9: a like I am one hundred percent convinced I'm in

568
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:29,320
Speaker 9: the right, and I will talk to you. Yeah, and

569
00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:31,880
Speaker 9: I will say it with my whole chest. Yeah, Like,

570
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 9: do you want to share some of the stuff you said?

571
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:34,480
Speaker 9: I thought it's really.

572
00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:36,800
Speaker 8: One of the things that she said that, yeah, Like

573
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 8: I mean, you know, she I didn't get the impression

574
00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:43,520
Speaker 8: she was like a wild political radical or something, right,

575
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:46,640
Speaker 8: and she's just like, you know, my father fought fascists

576
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:49,240
Speaker 8: in France and Italy, and like he would be proud

577
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:54,280
Speaker 8: of me, and like, yeah, I'm sure he would be. Yeah,

578
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:55,040
Speaker 8: and I'm.

579
00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:57,120
Speaker 9: Sure it would be disgusted at what's fucking happening.

580
00:31:57,280 --> 00:32:02,520
Speaker 8: Yeah. And you know, and while we're talking, the Somali

581
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:06,120
Speaker 8: family who's daycare it is, comes out and gives us

582
00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:08,800
Speaker 8: symbosas and we're like no, no, no, no, we're journalists. You

583
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:10,840
Speaker 8: don't have to give us anything. We're like not even helping.

584
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:14,120
Speaker 8: We're like, they're like, you're here, you're with us, you

585
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:15,080
Speaker 8: are taking food?

586
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:18,000
Speaker 9: Yeah, guy, like no where some monies we feed people

587
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:20,280
Speaker 9: like yeah, what's your deally vegetarian?

588
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:21,240
Speaker 8: We're like, we're with vegan.

589
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:21,600
Speaker 10: Yeah.

590
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:24,800
Speaker 9: So he comes out, goes back, comes out with vegan ones. Yeah,

591
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:25,800
Speaker 9: like they were delicious.

592
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:28,160
Speaker 8: Yeah, No, there's the best food I've ever eaten. As

593
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:30,720
Speaker 8: we're standing there, more people come and go. So you're like, Okay,

594
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:33,920
Speaker 8: this is happening here, right, you know, no pun intended.

595
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:35,960
Speaker 8: And we as we we leave, we talk to a

596
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:37,680
Speaker 8: few more people we leave, and and some of the

597
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:39,440
Speaker 8: other people we talk to are like and the people

598
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:41,400
Speaker 8: from different scenes, it's not you know, like.

599
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:43,280
Speaker 9: It's not just an old lady scene, right, it's a

600
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:44,440
Speaker 9: diverse crowd, right.

601
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:47,479
Speaker 8: And you know, we talk to a father who I

602
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:52,320
Speaker 8: tangentially know through the metal scene, who is like, yeah,

603
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:55,440
Speaker 8: my kid goes to school here. Yeah, like no one

604
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:59,440
Speaker 8: is taking kids while I can stand here, you know,

605
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:01,280
Speaker 8: And he was like, I have work to be doing it.

606
00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:01,520
Speaker 1: You know.

607
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:04,120
Speaker 8: He's like, we're supposed to be recording this band today

608
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:06,720
Speaker 8: or whatever, and he's like, no, I'm here, I'm doing this.

609
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:09,680
Speaker 8: There's no sadness, you know, there's.

610
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:11,720
Speaker 9: No He's like, this is what I have to be doing.

611
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:15,240
Speaker 8: It's the most important thing to do. Every two blocks

612
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:20,440
Speaker 8: there are people on the corner, usually two people, sometimes alone.

613
00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:23,800
Speaker 8: And those what we later learned because we were like,

614
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:27,360
Speaker 8: holy shit, there's ice watchers everywhere. Yeah, those are just

615
00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:32,200
Speaker 8: the marked people we see. That's the minority. There are

616
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:39,880
Speaker 8: people driving constantly in very organized but entirely decentralized networks

617
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:44,240
Speaker 8: of rapid response where they have come together in these

618
00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:48,000
Speaker 8: like hyper local Signal loops. Signal is an encrypted messaging

619
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:53,160
Speaker 8: app that you can use on any device Android iPhone.

620
00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:57,520
Speaker 8: The government can't break its encryption. However, there's no truly

621
00:33:57,600 --> 00:33:58,320
Speaker 8: safe system.

622
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:00,320
Speaker 9: It's the safest when we have and it will amount

623
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 9: that he deletes mess user after a period of day if.

624
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:03,760
Speaker 8: You set it up to yeah, and which you should.

625
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:07,160
Speaker 8: And so people are using this system, and you know

626
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:09,040
Speaker 8: a ton of these people had never heard of Signal

627
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:11,000
Speaker 8: before in their life and now they're using this system.

628
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:13,120
Speaker 8: And also we talked to folks and people felt that

629
00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:15,919
Speaker 8: like a certain level of transparency about the networks they're

630
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:17,000
Speaker 8: building is very useful.

631
00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:19,480
Speaker 9: Yeah, we should probably address this head on, like just

632
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:22,160
Speaker 9: to be super clearly. Yeah, everything we are sharing is

633
00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:25,680
Speaker 9: because people have implored us to share it.

634
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:26,000
Speaker 8: Right.

635
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:29,120
Speaker 9: We did not sneak in and find its information. People

636
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:31,680
Speaker 9: openly gave it to us because they wanted you to

637
00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:32,120
Speaker 9: hear it.

638
00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:35,200
Speaker 8: Right, Because they understand that this is the kind of

639
00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:38,919
Speaker 8: system that is currently proving effective and they want people

640
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:41,880
Speaker 8: to learn from what they're doing, and so they've created

641
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:47,360
Speaker 8: hyper local systems like block by block. We have groups

642
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:50,279
Speaker 8: where neighbors are able to check in on neighbors and

643
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:53,399
Speaker 8: people are able to say, hey, I saw this thing right, yeah,

644
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:59,520
Speaker 8: you know, And so there is constant presence all over town.

645
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:02,440
Speaker 8: And when I say town, we spent our time in Minneapolis,

646
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:03,840
Speaker 8: but we have talked to a lot of people always

647
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:05,920
Speaker 8: say the same Paul is doing a similar thing, suburbs

648
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:08,840
Speaker 8: are doing a similar thing, even some small towns elsewhere

649
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:10,359
Speaker 8: in Minnesota. You're starting to do this.

650
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:12,440
Speaker 9: Yeah, I don't quite know where the town is, but

651
00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:14,640
Speaker 9: if people are local, Like a few years ago, I

652
00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:18,200
Speaker 9: went to a massive renfare here and already outed myself

653
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:21,800
Speaker 9: it's okay. I brought a cloak I must wear and folks.

654
00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:23,879
Speaker 9: Folks all the way out there are doing it too.

655
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:27,200
Speaker 9: Which is that was that place had a rural Midwest vibe,

656
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:28,000
Speaker 9: let me tell you.

657
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:29,799
Speaker 8: And so people are doing this all over.

658
00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:34,680
Speaker 9: I have never seen unity like this, No, Like the

659
00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:38,360
Speaker 9: only time I've seen a city this much in lockstep

660
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:42,399
Speaker 9: is when I was in Comishlo in twenty twenty three.

661
00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:43,759
Speaker 8: And where is that.

662
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:46,800
Speaker 9: Comishlo is the capital of what is generally referred to

663
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:49,800
Speaker 9: as Rajava, the Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria.

664
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:53,000
Speaker 9: And at that time we were being bombed by Turkey.

665
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:58,200
Speaker 9: Turkey takes offense at Kurdish people having any autonomy. And

666
00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:01,040
Speaker 9: this is what that felt like, because there is someone

667
00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:03,960
Speaker 9: invading your town and taking your friends.

668
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:06,160
Speaker 8: Yeah, and everyone.

669
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:08,640
Speaker 9: I remember there were funerals, right, so one bomb killed

670
00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:12,760
Speaker 9: thirty four, say, show the internal security forces, and remember

671
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:16,640
Speaker 9: everyone rolled out for the funeral like it was like

672
00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:20,120
Speaker 9: a general strike. And that's what it feels like here,

673
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:22,840
Speaker 9: Like you could walk through town the day that happened

674
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:25,240
Speaker 9: and see people were sad and but they were sharing

675
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:28,760
Speaker 9: their sadness. And here people are mad and they're sharing

676
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:30,840
Speaker 9: their anger but also their love for one another.

677
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:34,640
Speaker 8: Yeah, even when someone was killed by Ice. This did

678
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:37,160
Speaker 8: not stop people from doing this work. Yeah, it brought

679
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:42,279
Speaker 8: more people out to do this work because people are like, no, this, this,

680
00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:44,760
Speaker 8: this work needs to be done. And on some level

681
00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:47,120
Speaker 8: the scale is that, right, Like, because if someone is

682
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:51,040
Speaker 8: seeking asylum, like, no one runs unless they have a reason,

683
00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:55,160
Speaker 8: you know, And so sending people back to the places

684
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:59,320
Speaker 8: that they've sought asylum from often just means killing people.

685
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:01,080
Speaker 9: Yeah, I mean, look at the things that have happened

686
00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:03,719
Speaker 9: in the last month. Right, gay men being sent back

687
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:07,240
Speaker 9: to Iran, where the punishment for that is death. People

688
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:10,880
Speaker 9: from this community, Korene people right being sent back to

689
00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:13,840
Speaker 9: Mianmar where we know that they are directly delivered to

690
00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:17,920
Speaker 9: a military prison. They are sending people back to Mauritania,

691
00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:22,759
Speaker 9: where again you can be punished for being queer by death. Right, Like,

692
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:26,480
Speaker 9: what is happening here is that people's lives are at stake.

693
00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:29,080
Speaker 9: I think sometimes people think, oh, we think of Vinie.

694
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:30,759
Speaker 9: You go out a place where life is less, you know,

695
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:31,600
Speaker 9: you don't.

696
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:32,080
Speaker 8: Have a target.

697
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:36,200
Speaker 9: No, that's not the deal. We're sending people back to Venezuela. Right,

698
00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:39,600
Speaker 9: We're sending people from the US to Venezuela. The US,

699
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:43,879
Speaker 9: notably just kidnapped the president of Venezuela. Those people aren't

700
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:46,960
Speaker 9: going to have a nice time, right, And if you

701
00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:49,960
Speaker 9: were a US intelligence agency and you wanted to insert

702
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:52,000
Speaker 9: people into Venezuela, that's how.

703
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:52,759
Speaker 8: You would do it. Yeah.

704
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:55,680
Speaker 9: And Venezuela knows that venez we are then that dumb

705
00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:58,520
Speaker 9: and they are very paranoid. Yeah, and they are a

706
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:00,759
Speaker 9: state which has a great deal of ability to do

707
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:02,160
Speaker 9: finance based on that paranoia.

708
00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:05,000
Speaker 8: And so people are aware of the stakes and they're

709
00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:08,600
Speaker 8: they're doing something about it. And what's cool. It's so

710
00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:10,960
Speaker 8: interesting because at the same time, but you know, there's

711
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:12,759
Speaker 8: a little bit of like, yeah, we're built different and

712
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:16,040
Speaker 8: certainly around the cold. That is absolutely true. And there

713
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:19,239
Speaker 8: is all of this stuff in the history of at

714
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:24,200
Speaker 8: least Minneapolis that people have built resistance out of, right,

715
00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:29,600
Speaker 8: you know, all of this very active multiculturalism going back decades.

716
00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:32,360
Speaker 8: We've talked to organizers who grew up and you know,

717
00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:34,040
Speaker 8: we talked to an organizer grew up in the American

718
00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:37,360
Speaker 8: Indian movement and was talking about like black and Indigenous

719
00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:40,160
Speaker 8: solidarity going back to the sixties and seventies, right, and

720
00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:42,480
Speaker 8: you know, and was saying, like there's all of this

721
00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:46,799
Speaker 8: multicultural and solidarity. There's also all of these like cultural events, right.

722
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:51,120
Speaker 8: They have this huge Mayday parade right, or festival every year.

723
00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:52,960
Speaker 8: It's funny, I've spent a lot time in Minneapolis, but

724
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:54,760
Speaker 8: I've never actually been here for this, but everyone's always

725
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:57,560
Speaker 8: talking about it, where basically people go to this park

726
00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:00,640
Speaker 8: and build puppets and build giant puppets together. But it's

727
00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:04,319
Speaker 8: it's decentralized, and so there's all of this history of

728
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:07,799
Speaker 8: decentralized organizing. And in twenty twenty, of course, you know,

729
00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:12,000
Speaker 8: the the uprising kind of began here and people are

730
00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:13,719
Speaker 8: very aware of that, and so they have all of

731
00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:16,000
Speaker 8: these networks that have been built for years, and they

732
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:20,160
Speaker 8: weren't necessarily like crazy active in the intervening years. But

733
00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:23,840
Speaker 8: people know each other on some level. And that's the

734
00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:26,160
Speaker 8: thing though, because we expected kind of I expected people

735
00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:29,560
Speaker 8: being like, ah, yes, they had all of these deep interconnections,

736
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:32,560
Speaker 8: and most people were talking to are like, no, I

737
00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:36,200
Speaker 8: know my neighbors. Now do you know six months ago

738
00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:40,479
Speaker 8: we had the we have these like small seeds, right,

739
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:44,160
Speaker 8: and so there, so people here are and aren't special

740
00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:47,799
Speaker 8: about that, but do you know what is special? Else?

741
00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:51,360
Speaker 8: I can buy I shut it to think, Margaret. I

742
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:54,400
Speaker 8: think what's special is the fact that you and I

743
00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:59,160
Speaker 8: run anti capitalist podcasts. It's special as a lot of meanings. Yeah,

744
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:02,800
Speaker 8: that are inter by advertisements. Yeah, it is. It is different.

745
00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:05,839
Speaker 8: It is a thing. And here they are.

746
00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:10,600
Speaker 9: Yeah, thank you please in certain name of advertiser here

747
00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:13,080
Speaker 9: for buying us a low grade vegan pizza which still

748
00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:19,960
Speaker 9: cost us more than fifty dollars.

749
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:25,919
Speaker 8: Andrew back.

750
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:29,799
Speaker 9: Yeah. I wanted to talk a little bit about like

751
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:33,520
Speaker 9: the structures that exist, right, and I think probably the

752
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:35,520
Speaker 9: way to do that is to break this down into

753
00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:40,480
Speaker 9: two distinct I guess categories. And I think these are

754
00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:43,239
Speaker 9: distinct in terms of organizing for the most part. Right,

755
00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:47,880
Speaker 9: one is mutual aid and one is rapid response. And

756
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:49,839
Speaker 9: I just want to break down why people are doing

757
00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:50,880
Speaker 9: mutual aid.

758
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:51,680
Speaker 8: First.

759
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:53,520
Speaker 9: First of all, we're doing mutual aid because it is

760
00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:55,160
Speaker 9: the way that we build a better world by taking

761
00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:57,960
Speaker 9: care of one another without trying to extract profit from

762
00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:01,080
Speaker 9: one another. Why they're doing it is because people right

763
00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:04,640
Speaker 9: now who are at risk of deportation are afraid to

764
00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:05,640
Speaker 9: leave their homes.

765
00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:10,959
Speaker 8: They are living like a lot of Jewish people lived

766
00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:11,319
Speaker 8: in nuts.

767
00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:14,360
Speaker 9: This is a this is a comparison to somebody whose

768
00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:17,600
Speaker 9: grandparents fled the Holocaust made for us today.

769
00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:20,640
Speaker 8: Like Jewish people did Nazi Germany. Right.

770
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:22,719
Speaker 9: The difference is this time they know their neighbors have

771
00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:26,560
Speaker 9: their back. Yeah, and so they're afraid to go out.

772
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:26,799
Speaker 8: Right.

773
00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:29,920
Speaker 9: Schools are offering remote education because kids are afraid to

774
00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:33,000
Speaker 9: go to school because ice has been hitting school bus stops.

775
00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:34,000
Speaker 8: Yeah.

776
00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:36,879
Speaker 9: People can't go out and get groceries, and they can't

777
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:40,240
Speaker 9: go to their jobs, so they can't pay their bills.

778
00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:42,560
Speaker 9: And so that requires if we want to take care

779
00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:44,600
Speaker 9: of people, we have to feed them. We have to

780
00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:47,279
Speaker 9: help them pay their bills, meet their material needs, get

781
00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:52,440
Speaker 9: their kids educated. That is a heavy lift. Capitalism extracts

782
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:55,080
Speaker 9: are pretty heavy fee for paying rent. Right, we give

783
00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:59,160
Speaker 9: most of our lives, yeah, capital so that we can

784
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:02,600
Speaker 9: get food and pay rent, clothes and shit. We have

785
00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:05,560
Speaker 9: to do that without that here, right, And people are

786
00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:08,839
Speaker 9: doing it. So they are organizing food drop off, they're

787
00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:13,719
Speaker 9: organizing diaper banks, they're organizing to give people rides who

788
00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:18,000
Speaker 9: might not feel safe driving by themselves. Yeah, they're taking

789
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:19,560
Speaker 9: people's kids some often.

790
00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:19,799
Speaker 11: Right.

791
00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:22,800
Speaker 9: A scenario that I'm very familiar with is citizen children

792
00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:27,399
Speaker 9: born to non citizen parents, So those kids, no one

793
00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:30,200
Speaker 9: is safe when you have this many people running around

794
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:34,279
Speaker 9: with weapons, right and very poor training and then a

795
00:42:34,320 --> 00:42:36,040
Speaker 9: lot of anger and yeah, not very good at driving

796
00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:38,759
Speaker 9: in the snow. But their kids are still able to

797
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:41,319
Speaker 9: go out and go to school. But it's about idea

798
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:44,800
Speaker 9: for their parents are taken, right. So you're seeing people

799
00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:48,719
Speaker 9: organizing school runs, getting food for people. Then you've got

800
00:42:48,719 --> 00:42:51,160
Speaker 9: businesses that are owned by migrants, right like there, or

801
00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:54,680
Speaker 9: businesses that are largely staffed by migrants. So it's trying

802
00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:57,360
Speaker 9: to keep those places afloat so that community can continue

803
00:42:57,400 --> 00:42:59,880
Speaker 9: to care for itself. But when it's workers can't come

804
00:42:59,880 --> 00:43:03,000
Speaker 9: in or what if the majority of the clian tell

805
00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:07,000
Speaker 9: of the business of migrants, well maybe people volunteer to

806
00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:09,840
Speaker 9: do delivery, right, so that that business can stay afloat

807
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:12,239
Speaker 9: and those migrants can still get the foods that make

808
00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:14,240
Speaker 9: them feel safe at a time when they don't feel safe.

809
00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:17,920
Speaker 9: Whatever it is, right, people are meeting each other's needs

810
00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:22,719
Speaker 9: without trying to extract like financial compensation from each other.

811
00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:24,919
Speaker 8: And to talk about the decentralized nature of this again,

812
00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:29,320
Speaker 8: and it's like hyper local, like no org. Many orgs,

813
00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:33,120
Speaker 8: but no one org. Stepped in and was like, ah,

814
00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:35,520
Speaker 8: this is the way to do it. Here's this top

815
00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:40,680
Speaker 8: down flow chart. Instead. All of these groups started in

816
00:43:40,719 --> 00:43:43,560
Speaker 8: different ways, like we've talked to people from like different neighborhoods,

817
00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:45,960
Speaker 8: where like ah, it all started like this, and then

818
00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:49,760
Speaker 8: they paint a completely different picture from people from three

819
00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:50,479
Speaker 8: blocks over.

820
00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:51,160
Speaker 12: Yeah.

821
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:54,240
Speaker 8: Yeah, And like you know, someone was like the mutual

822
00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:59,200
Speaker 8: aid here started with one mom who was like, while

823
00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:04,240
Speaker 8: I'm making food, yeah, and in her own kitchen made food. Yeah.

824
00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:07,440
Speaker 8: And then it was like I will carry the entire

825
00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:09,840
Speaker 8: weight of the world as necessary upon my shoulders.

826
00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:11,920
Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, yeah, And then other people.

827
00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:14,239
Speaker 8: Were like, okay, I'll help you lift this. I think

828
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:16,279
Speaker 8: of the have you seen the meme about like I

829
00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:19,359
Speaker 8: can't lift weights with my anarchist friends. No, I can't

830
00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:21,440
Speaker 8: lift weights with my anarchist friends because every time I

831
00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:23,880
Speaker 8: did pick up the bar bell, like thirty of my

832
00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:26,320
Speaker 8: friends come over and help me lift the bar bells

833
00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:30,840
Speaker 8: while singing John Henry.

834
00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:32,240
Speaker 9: Yeah it's perfect.

835
00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:36,840
Speaker 8: And that's like what's happening here? Yeah, you know. And

836
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:39,640
Speaker 8: so so one person starts doing this thing and people say, oh,

837
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:42,000
Speaker 8: that's a good idea, and there are these other networks

838
00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:45,160
Speaker 8: that can then tie that in and people will be

839
00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:47,480
Speaker 8: heavily involved in one network and have a little bit

840
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:49,640
Speaker 8: of an understanding what's happening in the other networks. Yeah,

841
00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:52,120
Speaker 8: but enough people are talking to each other that they're

842
00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:55,840
Speaker 8: learning best practices, they're learning what doesn't doesn't work, and

843
00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:58,600
Speaker 8: they're also changing to get to mean the threat.

844
00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:01,000
Speaker 9: Yeah, I think the thing is here that no one's

845
00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:03,240
Speaker 9: coming in with like tax deductible funding.

846
00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:03,959
Speaker 8: Yeah.

847
00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:06,480
Speaker 9: Right, this is just people taking care of people.

848
00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:07,160
Speaker 8: Yeah.

849
00:45:07,239 --> 00:45:10,919
Speaker 9: That has been sustainable for some time, right, like since

850
00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:14,239
Speaker 9: since mid December we're now in late January. That is

851
00:45:14,239 --> 00:45:17,720
Speaker 9: a thing that like there is a need for money, yeah,

852
00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:19,399
Speaker 9: to keep making that happen. And that is an area

853
00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:21,279
Speaker 9: where people outside of Minneapolis going to help if they

854
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:23,279
Speaker 9: want to. So I just want to flag that, Yeah,

855
00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:25,160
Speaker 9: and we will drop some resources at the end of

856
00:45:25,239 --> 00:45:27,279
Speaker 9: these two episodes, and we'll drop at the end of

857
00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:30,719
Speaker 9: the first episode and hopefully you'll, if you feel so inclined,

858
00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:33,960
Speaker 9: you'll be able to help financially. But yeah, let's talk

859
00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:37,040
Speaker 9: about rapid response. ICE is not as large of an

860
00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:39,120
Speaker 9: agency as they wish there was. You know, there's so

861
00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:41,400
Speaker 9: much news about how hard of a time they're having

862
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:44,040
Speaker 9: hiring people to the point where they like hired the

863
00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:47,919
Speaker 9: like leftist journalist too, was like, yeah, applied as a joke,

864
00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:50,160
Speaker 9: you know here.

865
00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:50,279
Speaker 10: You know.

866
00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:53,920
Speaker 8: And so they've they've had the surge here, the flood

867
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:56,719
Speaker 8: they called it, I believe of agents here and you

868
00:45:56,719 --> 00:45:58,920
Speaker 8: know there's about three thousand I think the ice agents

869
00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:00,319
Speaker 8: in the city. Yeah, I think it was met first

870
00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:05,880
Speaker 8: surge here midway flood was Chicago, Okay, And they can't

871
00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:10,320
Speaker 8: do that everywhere at once. So if you play video games,

872
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:14,759
Speaker 8: Minneapolis is tanking. Did do you know the concept of tanking? Yeah,

873
00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:18,080
Speaker 8: you'd ask to be a video game Dungeons Dragons, I know,

874
00:46:18,239 --> 00:46:19,920
Speaker 8: I know they do it. Yeah, you can tank in

875
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:22,839
Speaker 8: Dungeons and Dragons, but the actual weirdly, I think the

876
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:25,959
Speaker 8: concept of tanking comes not from Dungeons and Dragons. Yeah,

877
00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:28,600
Speaker 8: later additions that this is a nerd tangent.

878
00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:32,640
Speaker 9: Anyway, James and Margaret talked about Dungeons Dragons eptomology.

879
00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:37,279
Speaker 8: Yeah, the concept is that one person stands there and

880
00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:41,920
Speaker 8: takes the damage while other people heal that person and

881
00:46:42,120 --> 00:46:47,680
Speaker 8: do damage to the people attacking that person or prepare themselves. Yeah. Well,

882
00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:51,520
Speaker 8: in the video game version, as you you know, one

883
00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:53,840
Speaker 8: person takes all the damage while everyone else is also

884
00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:57,279
Speaker 8: helping do the damage back. Yes, that's literally just the

885
00:46:57,320 --> 00:47:02,080
Speaker 8: world of warcraft version. But Minneapolis is tanking. The Twin

886
00:47:02,200 --> 00:47:07,960
Speaker 8: Cities and Minnesota are tanking, and all of the ice

887
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:11,440
Speaker 8: agents that are here aren't somewhere else. And one of

888
00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:13,239
Speaker 8: the ways that they're making that possible it is through

889
00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:17,000
Speaker 8: rapid response and rapid response that's what the name says.

890
00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:20,239
Speaker 8: That is a way to respond rapidly. Which is the

891
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:22,040
Speaker 8: other Okay, this is the other question I had coming in.

892
00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:24,080
Speaker 8: Why does this work? This was my thought. I was like,

893
00:47:24,680 --> 00:47:27,279
Speaker 8: why does blowing whistles at ice agents make them not

894
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:28,279
Speaker 8: able to kidnap people?

895
00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:28,520
Speaker 10: Yeah?

896
00:47:28,640 --> 00:47:30,960
Speaker 8: So I was like, does this work? That was one

897
00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:33,760
Speaker 8: of the main questions we ask people. The answer is yes,

898
00:47:34,520 --> 00:47:37,120
Speaker 8: it doesn't work all the time. This is still a

899
00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:42,400
Speaker 8: tragic situation where everyone involves is kind of traumatized to

900
00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:46,160
Speaker 8: medium to greater degrees. I don't want to say the

901
00:47:46,239 --> 00:47:52,880
Speaker 8: lesser degrees. But what happens is is that if the

902
00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:58,480
Speaker 8: ice agents are out numbered, they usually don't successfully abduct anyone,

903
00:47:58,719 --> 00:48:01,360
Speaker 8: even though they're the only harmed people in the situation.

904
00:48:01,840 --> 00:48:04,640
Speaker 8: Even though they theoretically the way that police would act.

905
00:48:04,719 --> 00:48:08,040
Speaker 8: Being outnumbered. It helps, but it's not as much of

906
00:48:08,080 --> 00:48:13,160
Speaker 8: a game changer. Yeah, with ICE being wildly unpopular occupying

907
00:48:13,239 --> 00:48:16,920
Speaker 8: force so far at least currently, outnumbering them seems to

908
00:48:17,280 --> 00:48:23,160
Speaker 8: often stop abductions. At first, I believe decemberish, the way

909
00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:26,959
Speaker 8: that ICE was handling things was these big, spectacular raids

910
00:48:26,960 --> 00:48:28,640
Speaker 8: that we've seen in a lot of places. Thirty agents

911
00:48:28,680 --> 00:48:31,319
Speaker 8: are showing up and raiding this place, right, and so

912
00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:33,600
Speaker 8: if you get a call about that, a rapid response

913
00:48:33,640 --> 00:48:35,560
Speaker 8: can be twenty minutes, it can be thirty minutes. You

914
00:48:35,600 --> 00:48:39,280
Speaker 8: can show up and you're still part of fighting against

915
00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:42,520
Speaker 8: this happening. And this is what's happening all over the country, right. Yeah,

916
00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:47,120
Speaker 8: So ICE here adapted and started moving faster and faster. Yeah,

917
00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:49,880
Speaker 8: and so now often these abductions take two or three minutes.

918
00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:52,960
Speaker 8: So they were like, how do we get a crowd

919
00:48:53,040 --> 00:48:56,440
Speaker 8: in two minutes? And when when an organizer first, like

920
00:48:56,680 --> 00:48:58,640
Speaker 8: everyone here as an organizer, When a person who does

921
00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:01,160
Speaker 8: this first suggested that's to me, my thought was like,

922
00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:06,560
Speaker 8: well you don't, Yeah, that's impossible, it's not They do it, yeah,

923
00:49:07,239 --> 00:49:13,400
Speaker 8: and they do it because everyone here in Minneapps like

924
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:16,160
Speaker 8: I cannot everyone everyone, but I I haven't run across

925
00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:23,560
Speaker 8: too many counterexamples. Yeah, is themselves willing to respond, yeah like,

926
00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:27,960
Speaker 8: and so when you hear people honking and whistles outside,

927
00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:29,719
Speaker 8: you go outside.

928
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:34,480
Speaker 9: Yeah, I mean we heard someone was mentioning that they

929
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:37,560
Speaker 9: had seen and to be clear, this morning again the

930
00:49:37,680 --> 00:49:41,800
Speaker 9: real feel was in the minus thirties celsius and fahrenheit,

931
00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:45,680
Speaker 9: which is the last Friday if you're but they have

932
00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:47,560
Speaker 9: said they were on the block, they heard some honking,

933
00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:50,520
Speaker 9: they come outside their theybis were outside and cut off

934
00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:53,400
Speaker 9: pajama pants and crogs, screaming and blowing whistles.

935
00:49:53,600 --> 00:49:54,880
Speaker 8: Yeah, right, like, and.

936
00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:58,640
Speaker 9: You we saw it, even when someone mistook us for

937
00:49:58,719 --> 00:50:00,640
Speaker 9: ice agents. Right and within a couple of minutes, a

938
00:50:00,680 --> 00:50:02,560
Speaker 9: couple of people are come and we were to girl

939
00:50:02,560 --> 00:50:07,799
Speaker 9: with journalists like yeah, long hair like yeah exactly like

940
00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:10,719
Speaker 9: crusty like you can you can see us coming but

941
00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:11,600
Speaker 9: out of state plates.

942
00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:11,960
Speaker 8: Yeah.

943
00:50:12,560 --> 00:50:15,680
Speaker 9: A city is made of people, right like that. The

944
00:50:15,719 --> 00:50:17,640
Speaker 9: people are out there, the blood pumping through the veins

945
00:50:17,640 --> 00:50:20,719
Speaker 9: of a city. It's not made buildings, and there are

946
00:50:20,719 --> 00:50:24,680
Speaker 9: people everywhere, and when all of them are willing to

947
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:27,080
Speaker 9: show up, right or half of them.

948
00:50:27,360 --> 00:50:27,800
Speaker 8: Yeah.

949
00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:30,160
Speaker 9: Well, in the entire time we have seen here, the

950
00:50:30,200 --> 00:50:32,920
Speaker 9: only person who has expressed any negativity about what is

951
00:50:32,920 --> 00:50:35,640
Speaker 9: happening is a person in a truck today who was

952
00:50:35,680 --> 00:50:38,239
Speaker 9: honking at a large protest that we were part of

953
00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:40,520
Speaker 9: in a way that was clearly adversarial. Oh yeah, yeah,

954
00:50:40,600 --> 00:50:42,040
Speaker 9: literally one person.

955
00:50:42,120 --> 00:50:43,040
Speaker 8: He was also stuck.

956
00:50:43,400 --> 00:50:45,040
Speaker 9: Yeah, he was also stuck and had been stuck for

957
00:50:45,080 --> 00:50:49,640
Speaker 9: some time, and it struggling with a merged situation that happened.

958
00:50:49,360 --> 00:50:53,720
Speaker 8: When we actually don't know his political opinions. He was unhappy,

959
00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:54,160
Speaker 8: he was.

960
00:50:54,120 --> 00:50:57,920
Speaker 9: Just That's the only person I've seen express any upset.

961
00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:01,640
Speaker 9: Like every person I can guess out at the supermarket,

962
00:51:01,880 --> 00:51:07,200
Speaker 9: the people who we have run into a coffee shops right, like, yeah,

963
00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:11,239
Speaker 9: Randos outside the Dollar General store. Yeah, people we see

964
00:51:11,239 --> 00:51:13,600
Speaker 9: in the street. But people we see in the street

965
00:51:13,600 --> 00:51:15,160
Speaker 9: are standing it. It's cold as fuck. No one, it's

966
00:51:15,239 --> 00:51:19,080
Speaker 9: just like vibing on a park bench currently. But everyone, yeah,

967
00:51:19,280 --> 00:51:21,040
Speaker 9: is one hundred in.

968
00:51:21,080 --> 00:51:24,440
Speaker 8: It on the fuck these guys page, Yeah, like we

969
00:51:24,440 --> 00:51:27,080
Speaker 8: we today we heard about an ice vehicle that crashed

970
00:51:27,080 --> 00:51:29,319
Speaker 8: indoor pole And this is actually fairly calm, and I

971
00:51:29,360 --> 00:51:32,360
Speaker 8: believe because one they don't know how to drive in ice, yeah,

972
00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:36,719
Speaker 8: and Minneapolis is icy, and they were driving like a

973
00:51:37,239 --> 00:51:38,880
Speaker 8: I don't know whether the vehicles all we were driving not.

974
00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:42,560
Speaker 8: It was a Ford escape, yeah, but it was some

975
00:51:43,120 --> 00:51:44,320
Speaker 8: not altering tires.

976
00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:47,879
Speaker 9: Yeah, No, those were pretty those were some Californior ass

977
00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:48,200
Speaker 9: to ice.

978
00:51:48,360 --> 00:51:51,000
Speaker 8: Yeah. And it's just crashed in a pole in a

979
00:51:51,080 --> 00:51:53,319
Speaker 8: like pretty impressive way, like they had to be gone

980
00:51:53,320 --> 00:51:54,200
Speaker 8: at a decent speed.

981
00:51:54,280 --> 00:51:54,440
Speaker 10: Yeah.

982
00:51:54,440 --> 00:51:57,040
Speaker 9: They both hair bags are deployed, the radiator was done,

983
00:51:57,160 --> 00:52:00,000
Speaker 9: the engine block was you know, like, Yeah, they'd crumpled

984
00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:04,160
Speaker 9: the front of the car. It's because they drive erratically

985
00:52:04,239 --> 00:52:06,319
Speaker 9: when people are driving behind them try and get rid

986
00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:10,280
Speaker 9: of them, and they are driving ill equipped, both skill

987
00:52:10,320 --> 00:52:11,520
Speaker 9: wise and vehicle wise.

988
00:52:11,640 --> 00:52:15,279
Speaker 8: Yeah. And so we showed up. Yeah, an hour and

989
00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:18,040
Speaker 8: a half after the crash. They just abandoned the vehicle.

990
00:52:18,040 --> 00:52:20,280
Speaker 8: They're like, they came and got some of their stuff

991
00:52:20,320 --> 00:52:22,200
Speaker 8: out of the car, toss some to your guys, Yeah,

992
00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:24,320
Speaker 8: tossed them. S here, guys. We saw the canister on

993
00:52:24,360 --> 00:52:26,520
Speaker 8: the ground of SATs gas and they just left it

994
00:52:26,560 --> 00:52:28,759
Speaker 8: there and they were not going to clean it up.

995
00:52:28,840 --> 00:52:31,840
Speaker 8: I don't believe they will ever clean it up. That'll

996
00:52:31,840 --> 00:52:34,720
Speaker 8: be on the local police or whoever, you know, city

997
00:52:34,960 --> 00:52:38,279
Speaker 8: And we're standing there and a guy drives by and

998
00:52:38,600 --> 00:52:43,040
Speaker 8: he's just a normal man. Yeah, no distinguishing features, no

999
00:52:43,080 --> 00:52:47,600
Speaker 8: man yet, no belief to be a subcultural or lefty

1000
00:52:47,840 --> 00:52:50,640
Speaker 8: or someone drives by and it is like, oh shit,

1001
00:52:50,719 --> 00:52:53,000
Speaker 8: is everyone okay? And I was like, oh, that's a

1002
00:52:53,080 --> 00:52:56,440
Speaker 8: nice vehicle and he just starts laughing the park say

1003
00:52:56,440 --> 00:53:01,520
Speaker 8: his car. He gets down and this happens over and

1004
00:53:01,520 --> 00:53:03,680
Speaker 8: this is must have been happening over and over over

1005
00:53:03,719 --> 00:53:04,479
Speaker 8: an hour to happen.

1006
00:53:04,560 --> 00:53:04,880
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1007
00:53:05,080 --> 00:53:07,480
Speaker 9: What else I noticed then was like, so we were

1008
00:53:07,520 --> 00:53:10,360
Speaker 9: walking up and this this this person popped out of

1009
00:53:10,360 --> 00:53:12,640
Speaker 9: their house and was like, hey, what's happening.

1010
00:53:12,680 --> 00:53:15,239
Speaker 8: We're like, oh, I spitfed it into this pole. Yeah.

1011
00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:17,160
Speaker 9: And they were like okay, if you guys need anything,

1012
00:53:17,480 --> 00:53:19,640
Speaker 9: like I'm here, I'm taking care of some kids or

1013
00:53:19,640 --> 00:53:20,000
Speaker 9: an elder.

1014
00:53:20,040 --> 00:53:21,640
Speaker 8: I can't remember, but they were like, you need to

1015
00:53:21,640 --> 00:53:23,239
Speaker 8: come in the house. It's called just come to come

1016
00:53:23,320 --> 00:53:24,920
Speaker 8: knock on the door, like you need a hot drink,

1017
00:53:24,960 --> 00:53:27,440
Speaker 8: you know, like and one more press. We're not like hello,

1018
00:53:27,480 --> 00:53:30,000
Speaker 8: we are the activists, you know. Yeah, like you know,

1019
00:53:30,040 --> 00:53:32,160
Speaker 8: I'm to be clear, I'm wearing a helmet mark. Were

1020
00:53:32,160 --> 00:53:34,919
Speaker 8: both wearing helmets with with big blue press patches on them.

1021
00:53:35,640 --> 00:53:38,600
Speaker 8: So one of the things I noticed is like, and

1022
00:53:38,680 --> 00:53:40,920
Speaker 8: it's been repeated a bit and then reported on a

1023
00:53:40,960 --> 00:53:43,400
Speaker 8: little bit, like these three D printed whistles, right, Yeah.

1024
00:53:43,440 --> 00:53:46,200
Speaker 9: One of the ways that people identify someone was saying

1025
00:53:46,760 --> 00:53:47,959
Speaker 9: them that people know you're cool.

1026
00:53:48,080 --> 00:53:49,200
Speaker 8: It's like people are.

1027
00:53:49,120 --> 00:53:52,040
Speaker 9: All carrying whistles around the next like almost I was

1028
00:53:52,120 --> 00:53:54,359
Speaker 9: just keeping an eye on this is as we met

1029
00:53:54,400 --> 00:53:58,040
Speaker 9: people throughout the last few days. Everybody had a caribbean

1030
00:53:58,080 --> 00:53:59,480
Speaker 9: with their keys and a whistle on it, or a

1031
00:53:59,480 --> 00:54:01,680
Speaker 9: whistle on their neck, or there was a whistle on

1032
00:54:01,719 --> 00:54:05,200
Speaker 9: a lanyard on their wrist. It's like a little market.

1033
00:54:05,920 --> 00:54:07,920
Speaker 8: And what's interesting is we've talked to people about how

1034
00:54:07,920 --> 00:54:09,279
Speaker 8: at the beginning, I mean a lot of people are

1035
00:54:09,320 --> 00:54:12,240
Speaker 8: like this seems kind of silly. Yeah right, You're like, oh,

1036
00:54:12,800 --> 00:54:16,279
Speaker 8: they're the federal I mean they're the Gestapo, right yeah yeah,

1037
00:54:16,280 --> 00:54:20,680
Speaker 8: and we have whistles and so it seems so absurd. Yeah,

1038
00:54:20,960 --> 00:54:24,960
Speaker 8: but there's so many parts of it they hate. They

1039
00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:28,320
Speaker 8: want to operate in secrecy. Yeah. Yeah, we see watchers

1040
00:54:28,320 --> 00:54:31,560
Speaker 8: on every corner. We don't see ice, like this is

1041
00:54:31,600 --> 00:54:35,560
Speaker 8: a city under occupation. But it's like visibly under occupation

1042
00:54:35,600 --> 00:54:39,440
Speaker 8: by its own defenders. Yeah right, it is like infiltrated

1043
00:54:40,040 --> 00:54:43,600
Speaker 8: by federal agents. Not like you don't you know, I've

1044
00:54:43,600 --> 00:54:46,760
Speaker 8: been in places where you have like the the police

1045
00:54:46,840 --> 00:54:51,279
Speaker 8: rolling around in their tank things with yeah, and like

1046
00:54:51,760 --> 00:54:55,800
Speaker 8: this isn't that because they can't actually express much force.

1047
00:54:56,600 --> 00:54:58,719
Speaker 9: They can't even be seen as you go. They're trying

1048
00:54:58,719 --> 00:55:01,880
Speaker 9: their very hardest to right. They have tinted vehicles, they

1049
00:55:01,920 --> 00:55:04,840
Speaker 9: cover their faces. They keep getting different rentals so people

1050
00:55:04,840 --> 00:55:08,840
Speaker 9: can't recognize it. Yeah, like they are trying their best

1051
00:55:08,960 --> 00:55:10,960
Speaker 9: to blend in and failing.

1052
00:55:11,200 --> 00:55:15,719
Speaker 8: Yeah. And everyone having a whistle. So not only is

1053
00:55:15,719 --> 00:55:19,920
Speaker 8: it effective because it draws attention to them, it makes

1054
00:55:20,040 --> 00:55:26,000
Speaker 8: you a defender. It's a very cheap and easy way.

1055
00:55:26,120 --> 00:55:29,760
Speaker 8: You hand them a whistle, and you're handling them responsibility.

1056
00:55:30,239 --> 00:55:32,880
Speaker 8: You're saying like you are now it's like I mean,

1057
00:55:32,880 --> 00:55:34,520
Speaker 8: it's handing some of their goddamn sword.

1058
00:55:35,239 --> 00:55:35,440
Speaker 13: You know.

1059
00:55:35,600 --> 00:55:38,319
Speaker 9: It a like night Fantasy land way right, Yeah, like

1060
00:55:38,320 --> 00:55:40,080
Speaker 9: you're one of us when we take care of each other,

1061
00:55:40,239 --> 00:55:42,359
Speaker 9: and you are going to defend people. Yeah, and you're

1062
00:55:42,400 --> 00:55:46,359
Speaker 9: going to defend people by casting these people Like it's

1063
00:55:46,400 --> 00:55:49,640
Speaker 9: so interesting because I'm so used to thinking like power

1064
00:55:49,640 --> 00:55:52,840
Speaker 9: doesn't need to hide, right, Like, yeah, you know when

1065
00:55:52,920 --> 00:55:56,000
Speaker 9: journalists are like, oh, well, what they really fear is

1066
00:55:56,040 --> 00:55:58,600
Speaker 9: the truth, and you know, I'm like, well.

1067
00:55:58,440 --> 00:55:59,600
Speaker 8: Power doesn't need to hide.

1068
00:55:59,600 --> 00:56:02,800
Speaker 9: By the power is not with the folks driving around

1069
00:56:03,880 --> 00:56:08,680
Speaker 9: and occupying the city right now. The more relevant power

1070
00:56:09,800 --> 00:56:11,640
Speaker 9: is with the folks standing on street corners who don't

1071
00:56:11,640 --> 00:56:13,640
Speaker 9: feel the need to hide, who want afraid, right.

1072
00:56:14,640 --> 00:56:19,440
Speaker 8: And like, this is part of why I hate saying

1073
00:56:19,480 --> 00:56:22,560
Speaker 8: things like this. I think we're gonna win. Yeah, And

1074
00:56:22,600 --> 00:56:26,719
Speaker 8: I haven't felt that way in years, And like, yeah,

1075
00:56:27,040 --> 00:56:32,960
Speaker 8: I think that this spirit, the spirit that is animating

1076
00:56:33,040 --> 00:56:36,040
Speaker 8: this city is the thing that will get us through it.

1077
00:56:36,160 --> 00:56:38,920
Speaker 8: And when I say when when conditions are all weird

1078
00:56:38,960 --> 00:56:41,360
Speaker 8: and hard and we're going to lose a lot of people,

1079
00:56:42,280 --> 00:56:44,120
Speaker 8: like we're going to lose a lot of like.

1080
00:56:44,080 --> 00:56:45,799
Speaker 9: Grabbing people up the street here every day to spy

1081
00:56:45,800 --> 00:56:46,080
Speaker 9: ale of.

1082
00:56:46,120 --> 00:56:48,719
Speaker 8: This because when I'm like, oh, people are stopping so

1083
00:56:48,719 --> 00:56:52,440
Speaker 8: many abductions, they're also everyone we've talked to has stop

1084
00:56:52,520 --> 00:56:56,240
Speaker 8: abductions and failed to stop abductions. Yeah, and that haunts

1085
00:56:56,239 --> 00:56:58,160
Speaker 8: a lot of them. I think I think so too,

1086
00:56:58,280 --> 00:57:03,800
Speaker 8: And yeah, people are really torn between those two things.

1087
00:57:03,920 --> 00:57:07,160
Speaker 9: Yeah, I'll just say that like as someone who's been

1088
00:57:07,200 --> 00:57:08,759
Speaker 9: in it for a minute when it comes to like

1089
00:57:08,800 --> 00:57:12,560
Speaker 9: advocacy for migrants, right. Yeah, If I go back three

1090
00:57:12,640 --> 00:57:18,560
Speaker 9: years ago to twenty twenty three, it was one hundred

1091
00:57:18,960 --> 00:57:24,000
Speaker 9: crusties and anarchists and Quakers and Sikhs who were feeding

1092
00:57:24,040 --> 00:57:27,280
Speaker 9: thousands of people in the desert, right and in a

1093
00:57:27,360 --> 00:57:30,160
Speaker 9: big city metro area of three million people forty five

1094
00:57:30,160 --> 00:57:32,800
Speaker 9: minutes away. People didn't believe me when I told them

1095
00:57:32,800 --> 00:57:35,960
Speaker 9: it was happening, because nobody gave a shit, to include

1096
00:57:35,960 --> 00:57:38,680
Speaker 9: the local media. Then I was in La right in

1097
00:57:38,760 --> 00:57:41,439
Speaker 9: summer this year, and there were young folks there who

1098
00:57:41,440 --> 00:57:44,440
Speaker 9: were mad as hell and not going to take it anymore, right,

1099
00:57:45,080 --> 00:57:47,520
Speaker 9: and did really inspire instud really inspiring stuff and very

1100
00:57:47,520 --> 00:57:49,400
Speaker 9: brave stuff. And so many of them were those kids

1101
00:57:49,400 --> 00:57:51,320
Speaker 9: who are in that situation where they are citizens and

1102
00:57:51,320 --> 00:57:54,200
Speaker 9: their parents are not. Yeah, and they believe in the

1103
00:57:54,320 --> 00:57:56,160
Speaker 9: right to a freedom of expression of speech, and they

1104
00:57:56,160 --> 00:57:56,760
Speaker 9: came to use it.

1105
00:57:56,840 --> 00:57:57,040
Speaker 8: Right.

1106
00:57:58,200 --> 00:58:01,320
Speaker 9: But I could walk five blocks from there and it

1107
00:58:01,320 --> 00:58:01,720
Speaker 9: could have.

1108
00:58:01,680 --> 00:58:04,560
Speaker 8: Been any other day in La right. Yeah.

1109
00:58:04,600 --> 00:58:07,000
Speaker 9: I went to a fancy coffee shop. I overpaid for

1110
00:58:07,120 --> 00:58:08,240
Speaker 9: coffee because.

1111
00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:09,680
Speaker 8: The white people didn't give a shit. I mean, or

1112
00:58:09,680 --> 00:58:12,240
Speaker 8: if you didn't for the most part. No, you're right,

1113
00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:12,760
Speaker 8: could have been.

1114
00:58:12,800 --> 00:58:14,680
Speaker 9: They cared. I think they cared. A lot of people say, oh,

1115
00:58:14,680 --> 00:58:18,160
Speaker 9: it's terrible was happening. Yeah, but you know, some people

1116
00:58:18,240 --> 00:58:20,720
Speaker 9: spoke to me about their film script. We say, lay write,

1117
00:58:20,720 --> 00:58:24,120
Speaker 9: that's a given. But it did not feel like the

1118
00:58:24,120 --> 00:58:25,480
Speaker 9: city was locked in.

1119
00:58:25,880 --> 00:58:27,960
Speaker 8: This feels different to that.

1120
00:58:28,320 --> 00:58:32,640
Speaker 9: Yeah, it feels more locked in than it even felt

1121
00:58:32,680 --> 00:58:37,840
Speaker 9: in twenty twenty. Yeah, because everybody's fesis is an external thing.

1122
00:58:38,320 --> 00:58:42,600
Speaker 8: Yeah, but do you know what doesn't like doing transitions

1123
00:58:42,680 --> 00:58:45,040
Speaker 8: right now? It's me. I don't actually like doing it,

1124
00:58:45,080 --> 00:58:55,760
Speaker 8: but that is my job. And here's a maths and

1125
00:58:55,840 --> 00:59:01,080
Speaker 8: we're back. The external threat part is really fascinating and

1126
00:59:01,240 --> 00:59:03,400
Speaker 8: is like a key to a lot of this. I believe,

1127
00:59:03,760 --> 00:59:06,320
Speaker 8: you know, the difference between the tone of twenty twenty,

1128
00:59:06,360 --> 00:59:09,760
Speaker 8: where it was this nationwide internal threat. This is still

1129
00:59:09,840 --> 00:59:12,800
Speaker 8: absolutely present, right, is absolutely all of the problems from

1130
00:59:12,840 --> 00:59:18,160
Speaker 8: twenty twenty, yeah are still here. Yeah, earlier today and

1131
00:59:18,680 --> 00:59:22,920
Speaker 8: we watched them arrest a lawyer. Yeah, and we'll get

1132
00:59:22,960 --> 00:59:26,600
Speaker 8: to that. But the thing I've been thinking about is

1133
00:59:26,640 --> 00:59:28,800
Speaker 8: that in protest movements you often say things like oh,

1134
00:59:28,800 --> 00:59:31,720
Speaker 8: what radicalized you? Or I got radicalized by this, or yeah,

1135
00:59:32,600 --> 00:59:39,760
Speaker 8: this isn't radical, even though it's higher stakes, more risk, like, yeah,

1136
00:59:39,840 --> 00:59:42,760
Speaker 8: it's not radical to say, Man, I don't think you

1137
00:59:42,760 --> 00:59:46,840
Speaker 8: should kidnap literal children, you know, I don't think it's normal.

1138
00:59:47,160 --> 00:59:49,840
Speaker 9: Yeah, Like, which is why very normal people are very

1139
00:59:49,880 --> 00:59:50,480
Speaker 9: pissed off.

1140
00:59:50,600 --> 00:59:52,600
Speaker 8: Yeah, and like and one of the things has come

1141
00:59:52,640 --> 00:59:56,280
Speaker 8: up from multiple people, you know, and and the internet

1142
00:59:56,280 --> 00:59:58,320
Speaker 8: commenters will say, well, then why they vote this way?

1143
00:59:58,880 --> 01:00:02,440
Speaker 8: And that's just a that doesn't get us anywhere. Yeah,

1144
01:00:02,480 --> 01:00:04,720
Speaker 8: what the fuck are you doing? Yeah, we've talked to

1145
01:00:04,760 --> 01:00:07,280
Speaker 8: a bunch of people who are like, oh, yeah, that

1146
01:00:07,320 --> 01:00:11,960
Speaker 8: Republican business has closed for the general strike. Or my

1147
01:00:12,120 --> 01:00:15,840
Speaker 8: neighbor who is very conservative, is pissed as hell.

1148
01:00:16,160 --> 01:00:18,000
Speaker 9: Yeah I saw a sign today and we'll get to

1149
01:00:18,000 --> 01:00:21,240
Speaker 9: the big protest. I sorry, what would Ronald Reagan do?

1150
01:00:21,840 --> 01:00:22,120
Speaker 8: Yeah?

1151
01:00:22,680 --> 01:00:26,320
Speaker 9: The person right, So this person has not just thought that. Yeah,

1152
01:00:26,400 --> 01:00:29,080
Speaker 9: they have got out their pens and paper and their

1153
01:00:29,080 --> 01:00:32,320
Speaker 9: crafting supplies. They've made that sign, They've got their ass

1154
01:00:32,360 --> 01:00:34,919
Speaker 9: down to the middle of town and it is minus ten,

1155
01:00:35,040 --> 01:00:37,640
Speaker 9: minus fifteen, and they are out and about with their

1156
01:00:37,680 --> 01:00:39,880
Speaker 9: what would Ronald Reagan sign, right, because they have that

1157
01:00:40,000 --> 01:00:40,960
Speaker 9: pissed off and.

1158
01:00:40,840 --> 01:00:44,320
Speaker 8: No one's mad at them. Yeah, because at a certain

1159
01:00:44,400 --> 01:00:49,200
Speaker 8: point it doesn't matter. Yeah, rather they were here. Yeah,

1160
01:00:49,240 --> 01:00:51,600
Speaker 8: like exactly, And like the thing I've been thinking about

1161
01:00:51,600 --> 01:00:55,120
Speaker 8: a lot is that glad you're here gets so much

1162
01:00:55,200 --> 01:00:59,520
Speaker 8: further than what took you so long. Yeah, and they're

1163
01:00:59,560 --> 01:01:03,040
Speaker 8: just is a line the federal government has crossed it.

1164
01:01:03,480 --> 01:01:06,720
Speaker 8: And the more people who are aware of that, the better.

1165
01:01:07,440 --> 01:01:11,120
Speaker 9: Yeah. I think it's really important that part of the

1166
01:01:11,200 --> 01:01:14,920
Speaker 9: organizing here has been so wide and so inclusive and

1167
01:01:15,000 --> 01:01:16,280
Speaker 9: so broad and.

1168
01:01:16,280 --> 01:01:17,600
Speaker 8: Yet so focused. Right.

1169
01:01:17,680 --> 01:01:20,440
Speaker 9: Yeah, it's so focused on keeping their neighbors safe. And

1170
01:01:20,480 --> 01:01:23,480
Speaker 9: that's it can be so broad because most people think

1171
01:01:23,560 --> 01:01:26,760
Speaker 9: that's the right thing to do. That is what is

1172
01:01:26,800 --> 01:01:29,960
Speaker 9: allowing them to do this right now. Yeah, And it

1173
01:01:30,000 --> 01:01:33,040
Speaker 9: doesn't matter where someone was yesterday or in November of

1174
01:01:33,040 --> 01:01:35,560
Speaker 9: twenty twenty four, if they're on a street corner today

1175
01:01:35,600 --> 01:01:36,800
Speaker 9: looking out for their neighbors.

1176
01:01:37,320 --> 01:01:39,400
Speaker 8: And I'll say that I'm not going to name them,

1177
01:01:39,720 --> 01:01:42,200
Speaker 8: but to shout out part of the reason I'm here

1178
01:01:42,400 --> 01:01:45,640
Speaker 8: is that like someone I know who I don't know,

1179
01:01:45,720 --> 01:01:47,920
Speaker 8: if they have a political ideology to their name, just

1180
01:01:49,040 --> 01:01:52,200
Speaker 8: you know, a young queer person I know was talking

1181
01:01:52,200 --> 01:01:54,480
Speaker 8: to them a couple of weeks ago, and they were

1182
01:01:54,520 --> 01:01:58,360
Speaker 8: telling me about how, you know, I didn't understand the

1183
01:01:58,440 --> 01:02:01,120
Speaker 8: scope of the rapid response networks, but it's hard to

1184
01:02:01,160 --> 01:02:02,080
Speaker 8: see from outside.

1185
01:02:02,200 --> 01:02:05,320
Speaker 9: Yes, yeah, yeah, and necessarily it's something that people don't

1186
01:02:05,320 --> 01:02:07,000
Speaker 9: always talk about to everyone, right.

1187
01:02:07,000 --> 01:02:09,800
Speaker 8: Right, totally, And so, you know, talking to this person

1188
01:02:09,840 --> 01:02:13,480
Speaker 8: and they're like, oh, earlier today, I you know, went

1189
01:02:13,520 --> 01:02:15,400
Speaker 8: and stood in front of apartment building because of ICE.

1190
01:02:15,440 --> 01:02:17,640
Speaker 8: And I was like, your apartment building and They're like, no,

1191
01:02:17,760 --> 01:02:21,640
Speaker 8: about a block away, and I'm like okay, and they're like, yeah,

1192
01:02:21,640 --> 01:02:22,880
Speaker 8: I just want to go stand out front to make

1193
01:02:22,920 --> 01:02:27,280
Speaker 8: sure ICE didn't get in. And I'm like, okay, I

1194
01:02:27,280 --> 01:02:29,320
Speaker 8: don't quite understand, you know. And then they're like, oh yeah,

1195
01:02:29,320 --> 01:02:31,680
Speaker 8: and I you know, I go to the hotels where

1196
01:02:31,680 --> 01:02:33,720
Speaker 8: Ice are at and me and my friends sit there

1197
01:02:33,760 --> 01:02:36,080
Speaker 8: and write down license plates and and I'm just like,

1198
01:02:36,240 --> 01:02:39,160
Speaker 8: and I'm imagining this is just like an activity they're doing.

1199
01:02:40,160 --> 01:02:43,800
Speaker 8: I don't quite understand, you know, But I'm like, why

1200
01:02:43,800 --> 01:02:44,480
Speaker 8: are you doing it?

1201
01:02:44,600 --> 01:02:44,760
Speaker 5: Right?

1202
01:02:44,800 --> 01:02:47,240
Speaker 8: And not that not that it's a it's an obvious

1203
01:02:47,280 --> 01:02:50,000
Speaker 8: answer on some level, but they're like because I told

1204
01:02:50,000 --> 01:02:53,080
Speaker 8: myself I was someone who would do it's right. Yeah,

1205
01:02:53,120 --> 01:02:56,960
Speaker 8: and I think that in all of our hearts, we

1206
01:02:57,080 --> 01:03:00,360
Speaker 8: tell ourselves that when it comes down to it, we

1207
01:03:00,480 --> 01:03:02,439
Speaker 8: do it's right. And like, you know, people like talking

1208
01:03:02,440 --> 01:03:04,880
Speaker 8: about like comparisons between now in Nazi Germany and the

1209
01:03:04,960 --> 01:03:07,000
Speaker 8: rise of fascism, and they're like, you know, there's the

1210
01:03:07,320 --> 01:03:10,360
Speaker 8: meme about like how on end and up fascists if

1211
01:03:10,360 --> 01:03:13,600
Speaker 8: you're failing an open note test? Yeah, yeah, you know,

1212
01:03:14,320 --> 01:03:16,480
Speaker 8: but Minneapolis doesn't fail in the open note test.

1213
01:03:16,960 --> 01:03:21,640
Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, they are passing with flying colors, right, Like yeah,

1214
01:03:21,760 --> 01:03:23,600
Speaker 9: I mean yeah, I think you know you and I

1215
01:03:23,600 --> 01:03:28,280
Speaker 9: have both history appreciators, and history has taught us a lot, right,

1216
01:03:28,320 --> 01:03:30,919
Speaker 9: the big coalitions do better than small one or ones

1217
01:03:30,960 --> 01:03:34,880
Speaker 9: a fracturing tow a million pieces that like, leadership isn't

1218
01:03:34,880 --> 01:03:38,880
Speaker 9: what we need. Participation is what we need. Yeah, and yeah,

1219
01:03:38,960 --> 01:03:40,760
Speaker 9: you see a lot of it in action here. And

1220
01:03:40,840 --> 01:03:43,480
Speaker 9: like all of us, right, like anyone who's spent any

1221
01:03:43,560 --> 01:03:49,480
Speaker 9: time reading, writing, learning, listening to history whatever sort, what

1222
01:03:49,560 --> 01:03:53,200
Speaker 9: would I do? We're finding out is that yeah, we're

1223
01:03:53,200 --> 01:03:54,800
Speaker 9: not learning at having thought what would I do? And

1224
01:03:54,840 --> 01:03:57,240
Speaker 9: most people have said, well, I wouldn't be one of

1225
01:03:57,280 --> 01:04:00,160
Speaker 9: the ones who did something. Yeah, so they're doing something.

1226
01:04:00,760 --> 01:04:05,640
Speaker 8: Yeah, And I think about maybe my last thought for

1227
01:04:06,080 --> 01:04:10,080
Speaker 8: today is that when ice abducts people, which they do

1228
01:04:10,160 --> 01:04:13,200
Speaker 8: every day, Yeah, did they just disappear people? Right? They

1229
01:04:13,240 --> 01:04:16,080
Speaker 8: just show up? They pull someone over literally just for

1230
01:04:16,160 --> 01:04:20,240
Speaker 8: being brown, to be really transparent. Yeah, Like the the

1231
01:04:20,320 --> 01:04:22,560
Speaker 8: police have come out and been like, could you please

1232
01:04:22,560 --> 01:04:25,919
Speaker 8: stop pulling over all of the brown cops? Yeah? Right, yeah.

1233
01:04:26,120 --> 01:04:31,600
Speaker 8: Like and when they when they pull someone over, they

1234
01:04:31,720 --> 01:04:35,680
Speaker 8: just take them and they leave the car, sometimes running,

1235
01:04:35,960 --> 01:04:41,880
Speaker 8: sometimes in drive, yeah, and just drive away. And I

1236
01:04:41,920 --> 01:04:43,800
Speaker 8: was like, are we walking into a ghost town? Right?

1237
01:04:43,800 --> 01:04:45,800
Speaker 8: Are we going to see this everywhere? And like, in

1238
01:04:46,480 --> 01:04:48,400
Speaker 8: my three days here, I haven't seen the abandoned vehicle

1239
01:04:48,440 --> 01:04:52,160
Speaker 8: except the ice abandoned vehicle that get crashed. But it

1240
01:04:52,240 --> 01:04:54,320
Speaker 8: is happening every day, and we have talked to people

1241
01:04:54,360 --> 01:04:59,280
Speaker 8: who see it every day. And a very common activity

1242
01:04:59,440 --> 01:05:06,200
Speaker 8: is the ghastly approaching an abandoned vehicle abandons though the

1243
01:05:06,440 --> 01:05:11,480
Speaker 8: vehicle that has been has been stolen, and trying to

1244
01:05:11,480 --> 01:05:14,440
Speaker 8: figure out who the fuck it was, and going through

1245
01:05:15,680 --> 01:05:21,320
Speaker 8: and finding the information to contact people's loved ones and

1246
01:05:21,440 --> 01:05:26,280
Speaker 8: say like, hey, your your wife has been stolen. Yeah,

1247
01:05:26,360 --> 01:05:29,400
Speaker 8: you know, and like and that, and we were talking

1248
01:05:29,440 --> 01:05:33,440
Speaker 8: to you know, a decent number of the people that

1249
01:05:33,480 --> 01:05:36,880
Speaker 8: we talked to about this were Jewish, and they're you know,

1250
01:05:37,000 --> 01:05:42,160
Speaker 8: talking about like this is what my family told me about. Yeah,

1251
01:05:42,200 --> 01:05:44,959
Speaker 8: you know, and like that was one of the first

1252
01:05:45,000 --> 01:05:47,000
Speaker 8: things that someone told me that really made me cry.

1253
01:05:48,400 --> 01:05:52,600
Speaker 8: This whole thing has been like really challenging all my

1254
01:05:53,520 --> 01:05:58,840
Speaker 8: cynicism and detached us from from hard things. But hearing

1255
01:05:58,840 --> 01:06:02,400
Speaker 8: those stories and then just seeing the people who do that,

1256
01:06:03,040 --> 01:06:08,960
Speaker 8: which could be anybody. Yeah, because people step up. It's

1257
01:06:09,080 --> 01:06:15,200
Speaker 8: a god I just I say, I can only imagine it,

1258
01:06:15,640 --> 01:06:18,360
Speaker 8: you know, but it like that is a daily reality.

1259
01:06:18,400 --> 01:06:23,720
Speaker 8: Here is someone was just stolen. Yeah, a person was

1260
01:06:23,880 --> 01:06:26,520
Speaker 8: just stolen, and I have to go through their effects

1261
01:06:27,080 --> 01:06:30,080
Speaker 8: to figure out who they were. Yeah.

1262
01:06:30,200 --> 01:06:32,360
Speaker 9: I guess when we were speaking about that, I was

1263
01:06:32,360 --> 01:06:34,480
Speaker 9: thinking about experiences I've had in the desert right where

1264
01:06:34,480 --> 01:06:37,440
Speaker 9: you find someone's bag, Yeah, as they're walking through and

1265
01:06:37,480 --> 01:06:39,440
Speaker 9: it's got too hot, they've taken off their bag, and

1266
01:06:39,480 --> 01:06:42,200
Speaker 9: you go through all the little ephemera, the little things

1267
01:06:42,200 --> 01:06:46,360
Speaker 9: that people thought were worth carrying across the world, and

1268
01:06:46,880 --> 01:06:49,000
Speaker 9: you try to piece together their life and work out

1269
01:06:49,000 --> 01:06:51,320
Speaker 9: who they are, and you look at picture of their children,

1270
01:06:51,360 --> 01:06:53,320
Speaker 9: and you look at picture through their spouse and their home,

1271
01:06:53,400 --> 01:06:58,560
Speaker 9: and you hope that they're okay, right, And in this instance,

1272
01:06:59,240 --> 01:07:03,080
Speaker 9: they're not right. And it's not the abstract violence of

1273
01:07:03,160 --> 01:07:05,600
Speaker 9: the structures of borders and walls and surveillances that have

1274
01:07:05,640 --> 01:07:09,040
Speaker 9: killed them or taken them. In this instance, right, it's

1275
01:07:09,080 --> 01:07:11,960
Speaker 9: five people in masks in a car over there, and

1276
01:07:12,000 --> 01:07:14,120
Speaker 9: it's happening in the middle of cities where people can

1277
01:07:14,160 --> 01:07:14,400
Speaker 9: see it.

1278
01:07:14,480 --> 01:07:14,600
Speaker 8: Right.

1279
01:07:14,680 --> 01:07:16,280
Speaker 9: Part of the function of the border is to take

1280
01:07:16,280 --> 01:07:19,080
Speaker 9: the violence away from where people can see it. And

1281
01:07:19,120 --> 01:07:21,640
Speaker 9: they got away with that for so long that they

1282
01:07:21,760 --> 01:07:24,360
Speaker 9: figured they could just bring it into cities. And it

1283
01:07:24,520 --> 01:07:28,480
Speaker 9: makes my heart so proud that when people could see it,

1284
01:07:28,520 --> 01:07:31,120
Speaker 9: they said, fuck, no, you're not doing this in my town.

1285
01:07:31,920 --> 01:07:36,000
Speaker 9: Because for so long I've believed that if people could,

1286
01:07:36,400 --> 01:07:39,640
Speaker 9: Like the reason I'm a journalist, right, the reason that

1287
01:07:39,760 --> 01:07:43,000
Speaker 9: I have spent the better part of ten years I'm

1288
01:07:43,280 --> 01:07:46,640
Speaker 9: like receiving trauma is because I really believe in my

1289
01:07:46,680 --> 01:07:49,240
Speaker 9: heart that people could if people could see the cruelty,

1290
01:07:49,320 --> 01:07:52,480
Speaker 9: they would care and they would do something. Yeah, And

1291
01:07:53,040 --> 01:07:55,520
Speaker 9: like this confirms that for me, Right, people can see

1292
01:07:55,560 --> 01:07:58,919
Speaker 9: it and they have cared and they have done something amazing, right,

1293
01:07:59,040 --> 01:08:01,520
Speaker 9: and that makes me so proud of them.

1294
01:08:02,160 --> 01:08:07,400
Speaker 8: Yeah. The paradise built in hell, this soulment put it.

1295
01:08:08,040 --> 01:08:15,120
Speaker 8: You know, people are finding community and a really active

1296
01:08:15,160 --> 01:08:18,360
Speaker 8: way and learning what people can do for each other

1297
01:08:18,720 --> 01:08:21,040
Speaker 8: and the levels in which people are plugging in. You know,

1298
01:08:21,080 --> 01:08:24,240
Speaker 8: there's the whole long standing cliche that for every front

1299
01:08:24,240 --> 01:08:27,040
Speaker 8: line access, there's ten support people. Yeah, and you're like,

1300
01:08:27,479 --> 01:08:32,000
Speaker 8: well here, it's those lines aren't so clearly delineated because

1301
01:08:32,600 --> 01:08:35,080
Speaker 8: on some level, you know, we've talked to people who

1302
01:08:35,120 --> 01:08:38,680
Speaker 8: have been like, oh my my neighbor who you know

1303
01:08:38,720 --> 01:08:41,439
Speaker 8: has so many mobility issues that they can't leave their house. Yeah,

1304
01:08:41,560 --> 01:08:42,800
Speaker 8: they're just hanging on the front porch.

1305
01:08:43,479 --> 01:08:47,280
Speaker 9: Yeah, on the front line. Yeah, exactly, because the front

1306
01:08:47,320 --> 01:08:47,920
Speaker 9: line comes to you.

1307
01:08:48,240 --> 01:08:51,200
Speaker 8: Yeah. Like we talked to someone earlier who was pepper

1308
01:08:51,200 --> 01:08:54,040
Speaker 8: spray this morning while walking their dog. Yeah, you know,

1309
01:08:54,280 --> 01:09:00,240
Speaker 8: because while walking their dog they witnessed masked agent. It's

1310
01:09:01,360 --> 01:09:06,960
Speaker 8: stealing a person. Yeah, well I'm about do it for

1311
01:09:07,320 --> 01:09:12,719
Speaker 8: part one if it could cool people here. M hmm,

1312
01:09:13,120 --> 01:09:16,519
Speaker 8: And uh, we'll be back on Wednesday or whenever. It

1313
01:09:16,680 --> 01:09:18,200
Speaker 8: We actually don't know what the scheduling is going to

1314
01:09:18,240 --> 01:09:20,400
Speaker 8: be of this particular episode. Yeah, we'll be back.

1315
01:09:20,320 --> 01:09:23,040
Speaker 9: In the subsequent episode of the podcast video listening to you.

1316
01:09:23,200 --> 01:09:29,240
Speaker 8: That's right, that's right, and yeah, you're gonna final Let

1317
01:09:29,280 --> 01:09:29,800
Speaker 8: me say this, right.

1318
01:09:31,000 --> 01:09:33,559
Speaker 9: I was really sad when I came here because my

1319
01:09:33,600 --> 01:09:37,600
Speaker 9: friends were dying Reshaba. Yeah, and I wish I was

1320
01:09:37,640 --> 01:09:42,479
Speaker 9: with them in a strange way, Yeah, because I know

1321
01:09:42,600 --> 01:09:45,720
Speaker 9: the sense of togetherness they feel and I felt that

1322
01:09:45,800 --> 01:09:49,120
Speaker 9: here and that was really special for me because I

1323
01:09:49,120 --> 01:09:52,040
Speaker 9: would struggle to be dealing with this alone.

1324
01:09:52,880 --> 01:09:55,479
Speaker 8: Yeah, and we're gonna we're gonna talk a bit more

1325
01:09:55,479 --> 01:09:59,200
Speaker 8: about rapid response stuff. And there's also just a point

1326
01:09:59,240 --> 01:10:02,400
Speaker 8: some articles people. There's a series of articles that came

1327
01:10:02,400 --> 01:10:05,960
Speaker 8: out from crimethink, which is crimethink dot com that have

1328
01:10:06,080 --> 01:10:08,920
Speaker 8: talked about some of the structures of rapid response networks.

1329
01:10:08,960 --> 01:10:12,280
Speaker 8: And people here are putting together a lot of resources

1330
01:10:12,320 --> 01:10:15,000
Speaker 8: about what they have and haven't learned. And we're going

1331
01:10:15,080 --> 01:10:17,880
Speaker 8: to be talking about some of those things that people

1332
01:10:17,920 --> 01:10:21,200
Speaker 8: have learned and things like that. But it's really worth

1333
01:10:21,400 --> 01:10:25,639
Speaker 8: understanding wherever you are because you're also that person who

1334
01:10:25,680 --> 01:10:27,240
Speaker 8: can hang out on your front porch. I mean not

1335
01:10:27,240 --> 01:10:29,360
Speaker 8: necessarily literally you hang out on your front porch. But

1336
01:10:29,400 --> 01:10:34,040
Speaker 8: it's like the idea is when the entire city mobilizes,

1337
01:10:35,120 --> 01:10:39,519
Speaker 8: it works. And I think that when we realize that

1338
01:10:39,600 --> 01:10:45,679
Speaker 8: we can mobilize the entire country, it works. That's my theory. Yeah,

1339
01:10:45,960 --> 01:10:46,880
Speaker 8: see you all soon.

1340
01:10:47,439 --> 01:10:51,439
Speaker 9: Hi, friends, it's me James. I'm back and I'm back

1341
01:10:51,520 --> 01:10:53,639
Speaker 9: because we ask some people on the ground if they

1342
01:10:53,680 --> 01:10:57,200
Speaker 9: could provide us with some links to places where people

1343
01:10:57,200 --> 01:10:59,639
Speaker 9: could donate that have been vetted that they knew would

1344
01:10:59,640 --> 01:11:02,599
Speaker 9: be going to people helping people on the ground, and

1345
01:11:02,720 --> 01:11:05,439
Speaker 9: they provided us with a lot of different links. So

1346
01:11:05,479 --> 01:11:07,400
Speaker 9: I'm going to tell you what each of these links are,

1347
01:11:07,479 --> 01:11:11,080
Speaker 9: and if you'd like to donate, you can just scroll

1348
01:11:11,160 --> 01:11:13,639
Speaker 9: on down whichever app you're using to the podcast show

1349
01:11:13,640 --> 01:11:16,240
Speaker 9: notes and you can click one of the one of

1350
01:11:16,240 --> 01:11:19,400
Speaker 9: the links below. So there's rent support for neighbors in Phillips,

1351
01:11:19,439 --> 01:11:22,639
Speaker 9: rent support for neighbors in Central, rent support for neighbors

1352
01:11:22,640 --> 01:11:27,280
Speaker 9: in Powderhorn, supplies for political art making, protective gear for

1353
01:11:27,400 --> 01:11:32,040
Speaker 9: legal observers, diapers and menstrual supplies. There are Abolish iced

1354
01:11:32,080 --> 01:11:35,480
Speaker 9: T shirts that you can purchase. There is a fundraiser

1355
01:11:35,479 --> 01:11:38,679
Speaker 9: for north Star Frontline Street Medics and the Twin Cities

1356
01:11:38,720 --> 01:11:41,719
Speaker 9: Swirlitariat bail fund. There are links for both of Venmo

1357
01:11:41,920 --> 01:11:59,200
Speaker 9: and cash app donation there. Hi, friends, it's me James,

1358
01:11:59,240 --> 01:12:02,200
Speaker 9: and I just wanted to explain as you're listening to this.

1359
01:12:02,479 --> 01:12:07,639
Speaker 9: We recorded this around midnight on Friday, after having spent

1360
01:12:08,320 --> 01:12:11,800
Speaker 9: I think three days four nights in Minneapolis, and the

1361
01:12:11,840 --> 01:12:16,240
Speaker 9: tone of what we recorded here is hopeful. I remain

1362
01:12:16,439 --> 01:12:19,360
Speaker 9: hopeful and inspired by the people we met in Minneapolis,

1363
01:12:19,360 --> 01:12:22,320
Speaker 9: and I remained so proud of everything they've done. But

1364
01:12:22,680 --> 01:12:25,559
Speaker 9: about nine hours after we sent this off to our editors,

1365
01:12:25,840 --> 01:12:30,680
Speaker 9: Alex Pretty was killed by two Border Patrol agents. And

1366
01:12:31,840 --> 01:12:34,800
Speaker 9: the tone of this would have been different if we

1367
01:12:34,880 --> 01:12:38,599
Speaker 9: had recorded after that, And that's just the nature of

1368
01:12:38,760 --> 01:12:42,040
Speaker 9: the work we do. But we don't want anything in

1369
01:12:42,120 --> 01:12:44,559
Speaker 9: the hopeful tone here to suggest that we don't grieve

1370
01:12:44,600 --> 01:12:47,120
Speaker 9: his passing, that we aren't thinking of the people who

1371
01:12:47,160 --> 01:12:49,479
Speaker 9: loved him right now, because we understand that they're going

1372
01:12:49,479 --> 01:12:53,040
Speaker 9: through a very difficult time. But we still want you

1373
01:12:53,120 --> 01:12:55,559
Speaker 9: to learn from what's happening in Minneapolis and from what

1374
01:12:55,600 --> 01:12:59,240
Speaker 9: people are doing there, and we hope that you remember

1375
01:12:59,240 --> 01:13:00,200
Speaker 9: that as you literally say.

1376
01:13:00,760 --> 01:13:03,439
Speaker 8: And I think that honestly, those two things that we

1377
01:13:03,680 --> 01:13:06,400
Speaker 8: have to balance just as we deal with the state

1378
01:13:06,439 --> 01:13:08,800
Speaker 8: of the world. Is just you know, everyone we talked

1379
01:13:08,840 --> 01:13:11,679
Speaker 8: to this is so present on their minds. Is both

1380
01:13:12,240 --> 01:13:15,840
Speaker 8: an awareness of the beauty of the things that they

1381
01:13:15,880 --> 01:13:19,400
Speaker 8: are building and also an awareness of the darkness that

1382
01:13:19,400 --> 01:13:22,479
Speaker 8: has caused them to need to build these things. But anyway,

1383
01:13:22,520 --> 01:13:25,320
Speaker 8: we hope you enjoy these episodes and are following more

1384
01:13:25,360 --> 01:13:28,200
Speaker 8: closely with more current news about what's happening, and are

1385
01:13:28,240 --> 01:13:32,040
Speaker 8: talking to the people around you wherever you are about

1386
01:13:32,080 --> 01:13:37,960
Speaker 8: how you will keep yourself and your neighbors safe and yep,

1387
01:13:38,320 --> 01:13:38,680
Speaker 8: thank you.

1388
01:13:43,840 --> 01:13:50,480
Speaker 9: Hello, and welcome to Cool People Could Happen Here podcast,

1389
01:13:51,080 --> 01:13:53,840
Speaker 9: which is what happens when two podcasts love each other

1390
01:13:54,120 --> 01:13:59,160
Speaker 9: and go to Minneapolis go on a trip to Minneapolis

1391
01:13:59,200 --> 01:14:02,720
Speaker 9: in the winter, where it is called I am one

1392
01:14:02,760 --> 01:14:06,000
Speaker 9: of your hosts today. My name is James Stout, and

1393
01:14:06,080 --> 01:14:08,000
Speaker 9: I am very lucky to be joined by my friend

1394
01:14:08,000 --> 01:14:08,839
Speaker 9: Margaret Kiljoy.

1395
01:14:09,439 --> 01:14:14,160
Speaker 8: Hello, welcome to the thing that we're doing. Should we

1396
01:14:14,160 --> 01:14:17,519
Speaker 8: talking about today? We talked last time about some rapid

1397
01:14:17,560 --> 01:14:19,439
Speaker 8: response to mutual a and there's more to be said

1398
01:14:19,439 --> 01:14:19,760
Speaker 8: about that.

1399
01:14:19,960 --> 01:14:22,639
Speaker 9: Yeah, today is the twenty third.

1400
01:14:22,920 --> 01:14:24,920
Speaker 8: Yeah, it's the past for you all.

1401
01:14:25,040 --> 01:14:25,360
Speaker 14: M M.

1402
01:14:25,600 --> 01:14:28,800
Speaker 9: But it's present for us. Yeah, it's amazing our podcasting

1403
01:14:28,840 --> 01:14:29,439
Speaker 9: work like that.

1404
01:14:29,600 --> 01:14:33,920
Speaker 8: Today was the second realish, real general strike I've been

1405
01:14:33,920 --> 01:14:37,160
Speaker 8: to in my life. Yeah. First one was in Oakland

1406
01:14:37,280 --> 01:14:40,080
Speaker 8: during Occupy Okay, so they pulled off a pretty serious

1407
01:14:40,439 --> 01:14:43,479
Speaker 8: general strike. Thousands of US shut down the ports. It

1408
01:14:43,560 --> 01:14:46,880
Speaker 8: was really beautiful. But yeah, that was poss Today.

1409
01:14:47,040 --> 01:14:49,519
Speaker 9: No one I had to shut shit down really, with

1410
01:14:49,560 --> 01:14:51,880
Speaker 9: the exception of the Federal building, which we will discuss. Yeah,

1411
01:14:51,960 --> 01:14:54,200
Speaker 9: it's been remarkable. We've been here, it's Tuesday, it's Friday.

1412
01:14:54,800 --> 01:14:58,760
Speaker 9: How just the momentum has grown. Like seeing we went

1413
01:14:58,800 --> 01:15:00,720
Speaker 9: past someplace I think it was like a place of

1414
01:15:00,840 --> 01:15:03,880
Speaker 9: repaired like electronics of some description. They just had a

1415
01:15:03,920 --> 01:15:07,840
Speaker 9: little thing being like attention, we're not opening on Friday,

1416
01:15:08,280 --> 01:15:12,000
Speaker 9: Like yeah, it's these businesses which have no reason, you know,

1417
01:15:12,080 --> 01:15:16,000
Speaker 9: like these outward facing reasons too. You know, it's not

1418
01:15:16,000 --> 01:15:18,080
Speaker 9: even businesses which rely on the community for business and

1419
01:15:18,160 --> 01:15:20,000
Speaker 9: have to signal the community that they're with them, right,

1420
01:15:20,000 --> 01:15:23,160
Speaker 9: it's just people who are being like yeah, nah, no,

1421
01:15:23,400 --> 01:15:26,920
Speaker 9: you know, like that seems shut. Yeah, let's we got

1422
01:15:26,960 --> 01:15:30,679
Speaker 9: to do something. Let's all close down and go protest.

1423
01:15:31,120 --> 01:15:33,799
Speaker 9: One thing that I was sent and share this with you, Margaret.

1424
01:15:34,200 --> 01:15:37,720
Speaker 9: Some unkind was a list of businesses that are like, yo,

1425
01:15:38,080 --> 01:15:41,480
Speaker 9: we will not be participating in like profit making today,

1426
01:15:41,520 --> 01:15:43,760
Speaker 9: but if you need X, that's what we do.

1427
01:15:43,880 --> 01:15:44,240
Speaker 8: Come by.

1428
01:15:44,479 --> 01:15:47,280
Speaker 9: Yeah, Like if you know, if you're hungry, if you're cold,

1429
01:15:47,280 --> 01:15:49,400
Speaker 9: if you need a cup of coffee, what if you

1430
01:15:49,400 --> 01:15:52,400
Speaker 9: need a bicycle fix whatever it is, like if you

1431
01:15:52,439 --> 01:15:55,640
Speaker 9: want to screenprint abolish ice on a shirt, swing my

1432
01:15:56,040 --> 01:15:58,360
Speaker 9: Like we'll just be opened up for the community. Comes

1433
01:15:58,400 --> 01:16:00,800
Speaker 9: a high like we don't want your mind, we just

1434
01:16:00,840 --> 01:16:03,120
Speaker 9: want your solularity. Like I thought that was cool.

1435
01:16:03,240 --> 01:16:04,840
Speaker 8: And on some level it's been happening for a while

1436
01:16:04,840 --> 01:16:06,840
Speaker 8: to like to talk talk about how yesterday we went

1437
01:16:06,840 --> 01:16:09,919
Speaker 8: to power out Grounds. Yeah right, there is an indigenous

1438
01:16:09,920 --> 01:16:12,839
Speaker 8: own coffee shop called power Grounds. They're actually worth donating

1439
01:16:12,880 --> 01:16:15,400
Speaker 8: directly too because of their mutual aid projects. That will

1440
01:16:15,439 --> 01:16:17,280
Speaker 8: probably be in the list of things that we include.

1441
01:16:17,800 --> 01:16:21,040
Speaker 8: And you go in and the coffee is free now,

1442
01:16:21,560 --> 01:16:23,320
Speaker 8: and you know, we were like, well, we want to

1443
01:16:23,320 --> 01:16:24,559
Speaker 8: pay you for tea, and they were like, you can

1444
01:16:24,560 --> 01:16:25,200
Speaker 8: pay us for tea.

1445
01:16:25,320 --> 01:16:28,320
Speaker 9: Yeah, And we were able to like put some money

1446
01:16:28,320 --> 01:16:29,920
Speaker 9: behind in case someone else came in and need.

1447
01:16:29,840 --> 01:16:33,799
Speaker 8: Right, But the entire space has been taken over by

1448
01:16:34,040 --> 01:16:37,920
Speaker 8: a mutual aid organization. Yeah, and it's you know, Indigenous run.

1449
01:16:38,040 --> 01:16:43,160
Speaker 8: We talked to someone from AIM American Indian Movement about

1450
01:16:43,600 --> 01:16:46,800
Speaker 8: the work they've been doing there, and you know, which

1451
01:16:46,840 --> 01:16:49,439
Speaker 8: is that they've been you know, basically just turning it

1452
01:16:49,520 --> 01:16:52,719
Speaker 8: into like making sure everyone has everything they need. Yeah.

1453
01:16:52,960 --> 01:16:55,760
Speaker 8: By creating these places that are good to hang out in,

1454
01:16:56,840 --> 01:16:59,360
Speaker 8: you make really good rapid response places.

1455
01:16:59,479 --> 01:16:59,679
Speaker 15: Yeah.

1456
01:17:00,160 --> 01:17:01,920
Speaker 8: You know, this is the first person we heard from

1457
01:17:01,920 --> 01:17:03,720
Speaker 8: about just like I was like, how does this work?

1458
01:17:03,760 --> 01:17:05,120
Speaker 8: How does the rap response work? And I was like, Oh,

1459
01:17:05,160 --> 01:17:06,360
Speaker 8: there's more of us than there are them.

1460
01:17:07,320 --> 01:17:10,240
Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, we shun keep showing up.

1461
01:17:10,320 --> 01:17:13,000
Speaker 8: Like and uh yeah, so like you know, people are

1462
01:17:13,560 --> 01:17:16,160
Speaker 8: people are hanging out there and so you know, and

1463
01:17:16,200 --> 01:17:18,040
Speaker 8: it's it's right in a place where Ice likes to

1464
01:17:18,040 --> 01:17:19,360
Speaker 8: fuck with people. Yeah.

1465
01:17:19,560 --> 01:17:22,760
Speaker 9: Well it's like for people who aren't familiar with that block, right, Like,

1466
01:17:22,800 --> 01:17:25,160
Speaker 9: I've read a lot about AIM. It's I'm interesting like

1467
01:17:25,160 --> 01:17:28,120
Speaker 9: that Franklin Avenue. I believe it's where AIM began.

1468
01:17:28,280 --> 01:17:30,559
Speaker 8: Right, Well, that's an understanding with Community Watch, which is

1469
01:17:30,560 --> 01:17:31,320
Speaker 8: what's happening now.

1470
01:17:31,479 --> 01:17:34,000
Speaker 9: Exactly, was doing patrols to keep their community safe.

1471
01:17:34,040 --> 01:17:34,320
Speaker 8: Yeah.

1472
01:17:34,400 --> 01:17:37,600
Speaker 9: So it's a cool little full circle movement. So this

1473
01:17:37,680 --> 01:17:40,920
Speaker 9: is a space which is obviously designed to like center

1474
01:17:40,960 --> 01:17:43,519
Speaker 9: and protect indigenous folks. Yeah, but they were just like, yeah,

1475
01:17:43,520 --> 01:17:45,720
Speaker 9: anyone who's out there doing the work, please come by.

1476
01:17:45,800 --> 01:17:49,400
Speaker 9: We got snack packs for you because we made We've

1477
01:17:49,439 --> 01:17:51,680
Speaker 9: got four different soups, got a vegan soup, we got

1478
01:17:51,680 --> 01:17:55,240
Speaker 9: a gluten free soup. Like, like, they were more than

1479
01:17:55,280 --> 01:17:56,559
Speaker 9: happy for folks to come by.

1480
01:17:56,680 --> 01:18:01,280
Speaker 8: Get fed, Yeah, gett warm. Yeah, big big thing here, people,

1481
01:18:01,640 --> 01:18:04,519
Speaker 8: you know, sort of make light of. You know, there's

1482
01:18:04,520 --> 01:18:06,720
Speaker 8: the whole quip that really works on me, which is

1483
01:18:06,760 --> 01:18:10,160
Speaker 8: the like Ice made the classic Nazi mistake they invaded

1484
01:18:10,160 --> 01:18:13,360
Speaker 8: a winter people in winter, and that's true. But it

1485
01:18:13,439 --> 01:18:14,960
Speaker 8: is exceptionally cold right now.

1486
01:18:15,040 --> 01:18:18,000
Speaker 9: Yeah, Like we last night, I think, due to an

1487
01:18:18,080 --> 01:18:19,960
Speaker 9: error on my part, were locked out of the place

1488
01:18:20,000 --> 01:18:22,000
Speaker 9: we are staying. Yeah, I think it's fairly clear that

1489
01:18:22,000 --> 01:18:25,640
Speaker 9: I fucked up there. Yeh, that's fine. It becomes a

1490
01:18:25,720 --> 01:18:28,320
Speaker 9: risk to your well being pretty quickly. Yeah, to put

1491
01:18:28,360 --> 01:18:31,360
Speaker 9: it in another way, how cold it is today. I

1492
01:18:31,400 --> 01:18:35,040
Speaker 9: took the battery out of Margaret's vehicle and blue hot

1493
01:18:35,080 --> 01:18:38,479
Speaker 9: air from a head dryer on it. Sometime so we

1494
01:18:38,560 --> 01:18:39,759
Speaker 9: could try and start it.

1495
01:18:39,640 --> 01:18:43,200
Speaker 8: So a jump would work, because yeah, a jump wouldn't

1496
01:18:43,240 --> 01:18:45,719
Speaker 8: work without also heating up for the battery.

1497
01:18:45,800 --> 01:18:48,000
Speaker 9: Yeah, the battery didn't have enough coal cranking.

1498
01:18:47,920 --> 01:18:51,719
Speaker 8: Yeah to get Yeah, despite being a brand new battery.

1499
01:18:51,880 --> 01:18:54,160
Speaker 9: Yeah, you need different tires for your truck, You need

1500
01:18:54,160 --> 01:18:57,280
Speaker 9: different oil for your vehicle, You need your battery to

1501
01:18:57,320 --> 01:18:57,759
Speaker 9: be warm.

1502
01:18:57,960 --> 01:19:01,759
Speaker 8: Yeah, people have engine block. Heater is for gas engines.

1503
01:19:01,840 --> 01:19:04,599
Speaker 8: I don't even have a diesel. Okay. So this morning

1504
01:19:05,280 --> 01:19:07,120
Speaker 8: we knew as the general strike. We went and got

1505
01:19:07,200 --> 01:19:09,519
Speaker 8: enough supplies to have enough food without having to go

1506
01:19:09,600 --> 01:19:12,760
Speaker 8: shopping today. And you know, we get up and we

1507
01:19:12,840 --> 01:19:14,679
Speaker 8: knew that there was going to be a direct action

1508
01:19:14,800 --> 01:19:18,599
Speaker 8: this morning at the Whipple building. And the Whipple Building

1509
01:19:19,560 --> 01:19:22,240
Speaker 8: is Oh, I wish once, once this whole thing is scripted,

1510
01:19:22,240 --> 01:19:24,240
Speaker 8: you will understand all this better. But there is a

1511
01:19:24,280 --> 01:19:26,800
Speaker 8: building that used to be a fort. And it was

1512
01:19:26,840 --> 01:19:30,760
Speaker 8: a fort in ye oldie even more murder of indigenous

1513
01:19:30,760 --> 01:19:33,920
Speaker 8: people times. And it was the fort from which they

1514
01:19:33,920 --> 01:19:37,280
Speaker 8: would go out and capture people. Yeah, and that is

1515
01:19:37,320 --> 01:19:39,360
Speaker 8: what it is again. It is the center of the

1516
01:19:39,400 --> 01:19:43,439
Speaker 8: ice operations here. It is where everyone has taken both

1517
01:19:43,439 --> 01:19:47,720
Speaker 8: citizen and non citizen for processing, and there's like one

1518
01:19:47,760 --> 01:19:50,040
Speaker 8: way in and one way out, and there have been

1519
01:19:50,040 --> 01:19:51,800
Speaker 8: people I keep talking about we were talking about this

1520
01:19:51,840 --> 01:19:55,400
Speaker 8: hyper local rapid response. Yeah, there's been people at the

1521
01:19:55,439 --> 01:19:58,439
Speaker 8: Whipple building, at this wrap of a place with one

1522
01:19:58,479 --> 01:19:59,400
Speaker 8: way in and one way out.

1523
01:19:59,800 --> 01:20:01,599
Speaker 9: These places a fortress ass building.

1524
01:20:01,720 --> 01:20:03,920
Speaker 8: Yeah, right where it's really easy to kidnap people because

1525
01:20:03,920 --> 01:20:06,640
Speaker 8: the kidnap place is right there. Yeah, there have been

1526
01:20:06,640 --> 01:20:10,040
Speaker 8: people there are basically every day. Yeah, and like just

1527
01:20:10,200 --> 01:20:12,479
Speaker 8: blatantly being like we are here to track you all

1528
01:20:12,680 --> 01:20:15,360
Speaker 8: anti ice people have been there every day. Yeah. So

1529
01:20:15,360 --> 01:20:18,439
Speaker 8: there was a call to go to it this morning

1530
01:20:18,840 --> 01:20:23,280
Speaker 8: and so we did and you know as press. Yeah,

1531
01:20:23,360 --> 01:20:26,400
Speaker 8: and he did not get there on time because my

1532
01:20:26,840 --> 01:20:31,880
Speaker 8: car absolutely that start. Yeah yeah, but multiple people came

1533
01:20:31,920 --> 01:20:32,840
Speaker 8: to rescue us.

1534
01:20:33,080 --> 01:20:33,280
Speaker 10: Yeah.

1535
01:20:33,320 --> 01:20:37,160
Speaker 8: Yeah, like multiple people showed up to help out of

1536
01:20:37,200 --> 01:20:40,920
Speaker 8: towners who aren't even core of were We weren't there

1537
01:20:40,920 --> 01:20:43,679
Speaker 8: to get stuff done. We're just here to talk about it. Yeah. Yeah.

1538
01:20:43,800 --> 01:20:45,760
Speaker 9: Like someone came to or for us to jump. Someone

1539
01:20:45,800 --> 01:20:47,720
Speaker 9: else was like, hey, did you get a jump? Yes,

1540
01:20:48,080 --> 01:20:49,640
Speaker 9: someone was like do you want to ride? Do you

1541
01:20:49,680 --> 01:20:50,839
Speaker 9: need to borrow my vehicle?

1542
01:20:50,960 --> 01:20:55,040
Speaker 8: Yeah? And these weren't people we known very long.

1543
01:20:55,080 --> 01:20:57,799
Speaker 9: But yeah, the longest we've known these people was since Tuesday.

1544
01:20:57,840 --> 01:21:01,200
Speaker 8: It's Friday, and so people come up, get the vehicle working,

1545
01:21:01,320 --> 01:21:04,040
Speaker 8: we drive there, and the whole time both of us

1546
01:21:04,080 --> 01:21:09,120
Speaker 8: are moderately outdoorsy people, right, put it mildly in your

1547
01:21:09,160 --> 01:21:11,519
Speaker 8: case and to be accurate in my case. Yeah, Like,

1548
01:21:12,120 --> 01:21:13,720
Speaker 8: and we spent the whole time be like do we

1549
01:21:13,760 --> 01:21:16,160
Speaker 8: have enough gear? Yeah? Do we have enough winter gear?

1550
01:21:16,240 --> 01:21:18,120
Speaker 8: You know we both have these new insulated boots we

1551
01:21:18,160 --> 01:21:20,640
Speaker 8: got for this trip. Yeah, and like I live in

1552
01:21:20,680 --> 01:21:24,720
Speaker 8: the mountains. You were a literal sports person. Yeah. I

1553
01:21:24,800 --> 01:21:26,280
Speaker 8: enjoyed to be in the matter. Yeah.

1554
01:21:26,360 --> 01:21:28,280
Speaker 9: When I have time, I will go into the mountains

1555
01:21:28,360 --> 01:21:29,560
Speaker 9: and sleep outside.

1556
01:21:29,720 --> 01:21:32,799
Speaker 8: Yeah. Is cold? Is it was cold?

1557
01:21:32,960 --> 01:21:35,280
Speaker 9: You know there's a cold when your noseheads freeze when

1558
01:21:35,320 --> 01:21:37,080
Speaker 9: you breathe in and then yeah, then there's a cold

1559
01:21:37,120 --> 01:21:40,519
Speaker 9: when you're like my eyes are like actually icing over. Yeah,

1560
01:21:40,520 --> 01:21:42,639
Speaker 9: Like this is alarmingly cold.

1561
01:21:43,160 --> 01:21:47,000
Speaker 8: Is the coldest day here since twenty eighteen or twenty nineteen?

1562
01:21:47,080 --> 01:21:47,639
Speaker 8: Is what we learned.

1563
01:21:47,720 --> 01:21:47,920
Speaker 9: Yeah.

1564
01:21:48,000 --> 01:21:50,800
Speaker 8: Yeah, And you know when I talked to my friend

1565
01:21:50,800 --> 01:21:52,240
Speaker 8: before I came, I was like, it's going to be

1566
01:21:52,520 --> 01:21:55,960
Speaker 8: horrendously cold. Are people still going to show up, and

1567
01:21:56,479 --> 01:21:58,240
Speaker 8: you know, my friend who lives here is like, well

1568
01:21:58,240 --> 01:22:01,160
Speaker 8: we will Ice will be miserable. Yeah, and we saw

1569
01:22:01,720 --> 01:22:05,000
Speaker 8: probably ten thousand people outside today. Yeah, between the two protests,

1570
01:22:05,120 --> 01:22:06,200
Speaker 8: mostly the larger one.

1571
01:22:06,680 --> 01:22:09,120
Speaker 9: Yeah. So we roll up right and there is a

1572
01:22:09,160 --> 01:22:12,800
Speaker 9: small shield wall barricading one of the waves that Ice

1573
01:22:13,400 --> 01:22:16,920
Speaker 9: gets into the Whipple building to incarcerated people who they

1574
01:22:16,920 --> 01:22:20,680
Speaker 9: have snatched. There are probably half a dozen shields and

1575
01:22:20,720 --> 01:22:24,120
Speaker 9: then two big corrugated steel which is the level of

1576
01:22:24,160 --> 01:22:28,680
Speaker 9: bravery of that. Yeah, that is audacious. Yeah, because there

1577
01:22:28,680 --> 01:22:30,720
Speaker 9: were maybe one hundred people in that whole formation, right,

1578
01:22:30,760 --> 01:22:32,280
Speaker 9: and the shield walls facing two ways.

1579
01:22:32,640 --> 01:22:33,400
Speaker 8: We check it out.

1580
01:22:33,560 --> 01:22:36,560
Speaker 9: As we arrive, we see what we later learn was

1581
01:22:36,600 --> 01:22:40,800
Speaker 9: an Italian camera operator that had been mased in the face.

1582
01:22:41,320 --> 01:22:44,320
Speaker 9: I just want to break down again, Like we've made

1583
01:22:44,360 --> 01:22:45,880
Speaker 9: light of the cold, and it's funny that it's cold.

1584
01:22:46,240 --> 01:22:50,200
Speaker 9: You get maced, right, Generally you want to pour water

1585
01:22:50,280 --> 01:22:50,840
Speaker 9: on your face.

1586
01:22:51,240 --> 01:22:51,439
Speaker 8: Right.

1587
01:22:52,000 --> 01:22:55,719
Speaker 9: The clock is ticking pretty quickly once you start pouring

1588
01:22:55,760 --> 01:22:58,800
Speaker 9: liquid on exposed skin in these temperatures.

1589
01:22:58,320 --> 01:23:02,120
Speaker 8: The clock is ticking. Unexpos skin in these temperatures, any

1590
01:23:02,240 --> 01:23:06,320
Speaker 8: exposed skin is dangerous. I have this like basically balaklava

1591
01:23:06,439 --> 01:23:09,360
Speaker 8: that I like, I don't wear to protest. That's sketchy. Yeah,

1592
01:23:09,400 --> 01:23:12,000
Speaker 8: And then I'm like, oh no, I'm gonna like die

1593
01:23:12,200 --> 01:23:14,960
Speaker 8: if I don't wear this thing that covers every inch

1594
01:23:15,000 --> 01:23:16,599
Speaker 8: of my face. Yeah, Like I.

1595
01:23:16,560 --> 01:23:19,680
Speaker 9: Have a helmet with goggles, and I wasn't wearing the

1596
01:23:19,680 --> 01:23:21,599
Speaker 9: goggles for particularly, like I didn't think I was going

1597
01:23:21,640 --> 01:23:23,439
Speaker 9: to get a pepper ball in the eye. I needed

1598
01:23:23,560 --> 01:23:26,479
Speaker 9: the air not to touch my eyes. So like, this

1599
01:23:26,400 --> 01:23:27,599
Speaker 9: is amazing, is serious?

1600
01:23:27,680 --> 01:23:27,800
Speaker 10: Right?

1601
01:23:27,840 --> 01:23:29,320
Speaker 9: And I saw that and I saw them pouring water

1602
01:23:29,320 --> 01:23:31,120
Speaker 9: and I was like, oh shit, actually that's quite grave.

1603
01:23:31,400 --> 01:23:34,599
Speaker 9: And they actually did have a staged water truck the

1604
01:23:34,680 --> 01:23:37,639
Speaker 9: spray people. They didn't spray people with water. Yeah, yeah,

1605
01:23:37,680 --> 01:23:39,400
Speaker 9: that's what we heard where there was a water truck

1606
01:23:39,439 --> 01:23:42,040
Speaker 9: staged in the in the parking lot. To be clear,

1607
01:23:42,120 --> 01:23:44,719
Speaker 9: like that could have killed someone really easily.

1608
01:23:44,840 --> 01:23:45,040
Speaker 8: Yeah.

1609
01:23:45,600 --> 01:23:47,280
Speaker 9: So then that was one entrance. We were like, let's

1610
01:23:47,280 --> 01:23:48,639
Speaker 9: go to go back the other entrance to see.

1611
01:23:48,520 --> 01:23:49,479
Speaker 8: What the whole scene is here.

1612
01:23:50,000 --> 01:23:53,320
Speaker 9: As we're walking, first of all, we come past someone

1613
01:23:53,360 --> 01:23:56,400
Speaker 9: with one of those like trolleys that people pull. They

1614
01:23:56,479 --> 01:23:59,360
Speaker 9: have the better part of like a thousand tangs in

1615
01:23:59,439 --> 01:24:02,680
Speaker 9: foot warmers and they are stoked to be given them

1616
01:24:02,680 --> 01:24:06,200
Speaker 9: out right, So we handwarmers inside our gloves. Then we

1617
01:24:06,240 --> 01:24:08,320
Speaker 9: see someone who's pulled up in a minivan. That is

1618
01:24:08,360 --> 01:24:11,320
Speaker 9: the warming car. People do get cold, they get in

1619
01:24:11,360 --> 01:24:14,360
Speaker 9: there and they warm them up. We come around, someone

1620
01:24:14,400 --> 01:24:19,559
Speaker 9: has snacks. Someone's playing public enemy. As we come around further,

1621
01:24:20,000 --> 01:24:22,639
Speaker 9: we see this is the place that I are coming

1622
01:24:22,680 --> 01:24:25,240
Speaker 9: in with people. Right, consider are people who were there

1623
01:24:25,920 --> 01:24:30,000
Speaker 9: shouting at them. I saw a couple it's like snowballs thrown,

1624
01:24:30,880 --> 01:24:34,360
Speaker 9: and like, yeah, there were people who are throwing snowballs, right,

1625
01:24:34,400 --> 01:24:36,040
Speaker 9: But there were also folks who just turned out to

1626
01:24:36,080 --> 01:24:38,240
Speaker 9: be like, you know, I'm more of a that's not

1627
01:24:38,320 --> 01:24:40,760
Speaker 9: my vibe. But if you would like a snack while

1628
01:24:40,760 --> 01:24:43,360
Speaker 9: you're throwing them, I'm here for you. No one was like, hey,

1629
01:24:43,360 --> 01:24:46,559
Speaker 9: don't do that. Everyone was showing up in their own way,

1630
01:24:47,040 --> 01:24:48,040
Speaker 9: and that was really cool.

1631
01:24:48,240 --> 01:24:49,960
Speaker 8: Yeah, and that's like one of the things that you know,

1632
01:24:49,960 --> 01:24:51,360
Speaker 8: I asked at one point, I was like, what's the

1633
01:24:51,479 --> 01:24:54,400
Speaker 8: like discourse like about you know, the usual thing that

1634
01:24:54,439 --> 01:24:57,000
Speaker 8: divides people about, Like I'm going to use air quoter.

1635
01:24:57,160 --> 01:24:59,680
Speaker 8: You can't see, but violence are non violence which are

1636
01:24:59,680 --> 01:25:05,040
Speaker 8: like complicated age, right, you know, and you know, and

1637
01:25:05,080 --> 01:25:07,439
Speaker 8: there's obviously people like we've met people who've been like

1638
01:25:07,479 --> 01:25:10,000
Speaker 8: and we're non violent, and they're like really excited, and

1639
01:25:10,000 --> 01:25:11,160
Speaker 8: that's an important party.

1640
01:25:11,000 --> 01:25:15,440
Speaker 9: Who had yellow vests on being like peaceful observer, don't shoot.

1641
01:25:15,320 --> 01:25:17,720
Speaker 8: Right, And then there's also people who are like, we

1642
01:25:18,000 --> 01:25:20,280
Speaker 8: didn't see any of it, but there's graffiti all over town.

1643
01:25:20,479 --> 01:25:23,280
Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, like fuck peace justice doesn't.

1644
01:25:23,040 --> 01:25:25,280
Speaker 8: Bring him back. Yeah, And I was like, what's the

1645
01:25:25,320 --> 01:25:27,800
Speaker 8: discourse like between these groups, and everyone we've talked to

1646
01:25:27,880 --> 01:25:30,519
Speaker 8: is like, there isn't time for that. Ah, we go

1647
01:25:30,960 --> 01:25:33,880
Speaker 8: shit to be doing. Yeah, And like you know, even

1648
01:25:34,080 --> 01:25:36,559
Speaker 8: when people are discussing things, they'll try to start having

1649
01:25:36,640 --> 01:25:40,439
Speaker 8: a discussion and someone's like, hey, Ice is on that corner. Yeah,

1650
01:25:40,479 --> 01:25:42,560
Speaker 8: and not that these discussions aren't worth it. Well, I

1651
01:25:42,840 --> 01:25:46,160
Speaker 8: famously my pins post on Blue Sky's discourse is the

1652
01:25:46,200 --> 01:25:49,000
Speaker 8: mind Killer. But like, and you can see it just

1653
01:25:49,000 --> 01:25:50,960
Speaker 8: like right here, right, because there's people who are like,

1654
01:25:51,320 --> 01:25:53,240
Speaker 8: when you show up with shields at a shield wall

1655
01:25:53,320 --> 01:25:58,320
Speaker 8: at blocking a federal agents from being somewhere, you're clearly

1656
01:25:58,960 --> 01:26:02,240
Speaker 8: being mildly antagon right. It is a it's a rowdy

1657
01:26:02,280 --> 01:26:05,000
Speaker 8: thing to do, and you know, and at the same time, right,

1658
01:26:05,160 --> 01:26:07,000
Speaker 8: Like we didn't make it to this because they were

1659
01:26:07,000 --> 01:26:09,160
Speaker 8: happening at the same time more or less, but not

1660
01:26:09,320 --> 01:26:12,200
Speaker 8: very far away at the airport. We're not the news

1661
01:26:12,240 --> 01:26:14,880
Speaker 8: in this particular case. It could happen here is a

1662
01:26:14,920 --> 01:26:16,880
Speaker 8: news show, but this is still not the news. We're

1663
01:26:16,880 --> 01:26:19,439
Speaker 8: reporting right now, like one hundred and fifty clergy people

1664
01:26:19,479 --> 01:26:21,960
Speaker 8: were restless of all disobedience because the airport's being used

1665
01:26:22,000 --> 01:26:25,439
Speaker 8: to transport people away. Did real quick tangent about that.

1666
01:26:26,040 --> 01:26:28,360
Speaker 8: I think it's really beautiful because there's so much you

1667
01:26:28,400 --> 01:26:32,040
Speaker 8: know that the national presses of course, like these anti

1668
01:26:32,200 --> 01:26:35,799
Speaker 8: Christian people attack church, and like, you know, the churches

1669
01:26:35,840 --> 01:26:38,080
Speaker 8: are on our side, except like one or two.

1670
01:26:38,200 --> 01:26:40,720
Speaker 9: If we were staying next to our church. Yeah, and

1671
01:26:41,080 --> 01:26:42,840
Speaker 9: like we get up in the morning that first day,

1672
01:26:42,880 --> 01:26:44,680
Speaker 9: we heard the honking and we see like, yeah, the

1673
01:26:44,760 --> 01:26:47,479
Speaker 9: church has got a sign being like yeah, I've knowniced ice.

1674
01:26:47,520 --> 01:26:49,800
Speaker 9: It seems bad. Yeah, I don't think it's not what

1675
01:26:49,920 --> 01:26:50,800
Speaker 9: Jesus would have done.

1676
01:26:50,920 --> 01:26:54,200
Speaker 8: Yeah. So we're at the thing and you know, we're like, okay,

1677
01:26:54,200 --> 01:26:58,040
Speaker 8: this is happening, and we start seeing the police getting

1678
01:26:58,200 --> 01:26:59,919
Speaker 8: ready to use munition.

1679
01:27:00,360 --> 01:27:03,360
Speaker 9: Right, we come back from the first place to where

1680
01:27:03,360 --> 01:27:05,880
Speaker 9: the shield wall was right, right, shield wall is no

1681
01:27:06,000 --> 01:27:06,519
Speaker 9: longer there.

1682
01:27:06,720 --> 01:27:10,400
Speaker 8: We think, huh, weird, no shield wall. And then there's

1683
01:27:10,400 --> 01:27:11,840
Speaker 8: a line of police. Oh look at that.

1684
01:27:11,880 --> 01:27:15,840
Speaker 9: It's Hennepin County sheriff Department. Yeah, and yeah, go ahead.

1685
01:27:16,200 --> 01:27:18,280
Speaker 8: No, no, I mean that's the thing is, it's always

1686
01:27:18,280 --> 01:27:20,120
Speaker 8: really sad when you come back and expect to see

1687
01:27:20,120 --> 01:27:22,920
Speaker 8: a shield wall and instead there's a line of police. Yeah.

1688
01:27:22,960 --> 01:27:25,840
Speaker 8: And they are yelling dispersal orders at the at the

1689
01:27:25,840 --> 01:27:29,320
Speaker 8: shield wall, which is already banked burst. Yeah. They're like

1690
01:27:29,400 --> 01:27:32,040
Speaker 8: they're they've been they've been pushed away. We can't there

1691
01:27:32,160 --> 01:27:34,880
Speaker 8: one hundred yards away. Yeah, Like we just like straight

1692
01:27:34,920 --> 01:27:37,000
Speaker 8: up can't see them. And we are told and no

1693
01:27:37,160 --> 01:27:40,080
Speaker 8: uncertain terms by some other folks who are standing this

1694
01:27:40,120 --> 01:27:42,080
Speaker 8: is not a large crowd. The crowd has been moved,

1695
01:27:42,080 --> 01:27:44,360
Speaker 8: and we're just kind of yeah, they're craps between us

1696
01:27:44,400 --> 01:27:44,840
Speaker 8: in our car.

1697
01:27:45,160 --> 01:27:48,840
Speaker 9: One, two, three, four, five, six of us. Yeah, there's

1698
01:27:48,920 --> 01:27:51,000
Speaker 9: six of us. And I was going, I was counting

1699
01:27:51,000 --> 01:27:53,040
Speaker 9: people in my head. I can I can't stay sick.

1700
01:27:53,240 --> 01:27:56,360
Speaker 8: No, No, you're right, And two of the people were

1701
01:27:56,360 --> 01:27:58,200
Speaker 8: standing next to are like, yeah, if you cross this

1702
01:27:58,280 --> 01:28:00,360
Speaker 8: red line. They told us that if we us this

1703
01:28:00,439 --> 01:28:03,280
Speaker 8: red line, the National Guard will shoot us dead and

1704
01:28:03,320 --> 01:28:05,680
Speaker 8: it we did not test that.

1705
01:28:05,880 --> 01:28:07,800
Speaker 9: Yeah, I'm not sure if they would a bit near

1706
01:28:07,880 --> 01:28:09,439
Speaker 9: young over song about it.

1707
01:28:09,400 --> 01:28:13,599
Speaker 8: Right, and we're not Ohio, it would be fine and

1708
01:28:15,760 --> 01:28:19,519
Speaker 8: Ministry to National Guard. Yeah, and so they they are

1709
01:28:19,640 --> 01:28:21,200
Speaker 8: not letting us go. Yeah.

1710
01:28:21,640 --> 01:28:23,680
Speaker 9: To be clear, the red line would have signified we

1711
01:28:23,680 --> 01:28:25,760
Speaker 9: were entering into like a military area.

1712
01:28:25,640 --> 01:28:28,080
Speaker 8: Right totally with no like barricades or anything like that.

1713
01:28:28,080 --> 01:28:30,519
Speaker 9: And just they had barricades further along right, Yeah, to

1714
01:28:30,680 --> 01:28:33,280
Speaker 9: make vehicles weave yet drive straight up.

1715
01:28:33,680 --> 01:28:36,080
Speaker 8: It's the side of a public road where the light

1716
01:28:36,160 --> 01:28:39,800
Speaker 8: rail station. So there's the line of police and they're

1717
01:28:39,800 --> 01:28:42,559
Speaker 8: mostly facing away from us. There's about two people facing

1718
01:28:42,560 --> 01:28:46,000
Speaker 8: towards us. Are cars between them. We are marked press.

1719
01:28:46,000 --> 01:28:49,000
Speaker 9: Yeah, and wearing a bright red helmet with presstickers on it.

1720
01:28:49,640 --> 01:28:51,639
Speaker 8: Blue helmet with presto because black.

1721
01:28:52,320 --> 01:28:55,639
Speaker 9: The first the cops keep pushing the shield wall further

1722
01:28:55,680 --> 01:28:57,519
Speaker 9: away from us, and we hear them on the l rad.

1723
01:28:57,680 --> 01:28:59,840
Speaker 9: This has been declared an lawful assembly. I did hear

1724
01:29:00,680 --> 01:29:06,840
Speaker 9: somebody shout by who? That is a very good question, honestly.

1725
01:29:07,120 --> 01:29:07,920
Speaker 8: Yeah.

1726
01:29:08,040 --> 01:29:11,160
Speaker 9: Unfortunately, the Hennepin County Sheriff's department were not very interested

1727
01:29:11,160 --> 01:29:14,280
Speaker 9: in answering questions. Yeah, And the way that we learned

1728
01:29:14,280 --> 01:29:17,160
Speaker 9: this is that a couple of people I would call

1729
01:29:17,200 --> 01:29:19,960
Speaker 9: them older folks just from looking at them from a distance.

1730
01:29:20,080 --> 01:29:21,840
Speaker 8: They weren't the young rowdies holding shields.

1731
01:29:21,880 --> 01:29:24,200
Speaker 9: They were absolutely not know There was an older gentleman

1732
01:29:24,280 --> 01:29:27,800
Speaker 9: in a male presenting person in carharts yeah right, who

1733
01:29:27,800 --> 01:29:31,760
Speaker 9: walked up coveralls yeah yeah, with hands up right, very

1734
01:29:31,800 --> 01:29:35,000
Speaker 9: clearly hands up and seemed to be asking or talking.

1735
01:29:35,360 --> 01:29:37,400
Speaker 8: Yeah. It was like probably going up to being like, hey,

1736
01:29:37,400 --> 01:29:40,479
Speaker 8: what's happening? Yeah, like whatever, Yeah, can I go over there?

1737
01:29:40,760 --> 01:29:44,080
Speaker 9: That person was arrested, Yeah, so was another person who

1738
01:29:44,120 --> 01:29:44,599
Speaker 9: was with them.

1739
01:29:44,720 --> 01:29:46,680
Speaker 8: Yeah, and they were told they were arrested on the

1740
01:29:46,840 --> 01:29:49,479
Speaker 8: l rad. We could hear that. Yeah you are on

1741
01:29:49,640 --> 01:29:52,919
Speaker 8: Dora Ros Yeah. Yeah, that was very strange.

1742
01:29:53,120 --> 01:29:53,519
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1743
01:29:53,800 --> 01:29:56,920
Speaker 9: Then a bus arrived, more cops got out, and those

1744
01:29:56,920 --> 01:29:58,320
Speaker 9: two people were put on the bus.

1745
01:29:58,439 --> 01:30:00,960
Speaker 8: Yeah. Three people, there's three, three of them, three to book.

1746
01:30:01,520 --> 01:30:04,320
Speaker 9: Yeah, okay, the majority of the police in turn to

1747
01:30:04,320 --> 01:30:05,960
Speaker 9: face us, yeah all six.

1748
01:30:06,240 --> 01:30:08,280
Speaker 8: By now there's probably twelve of us. Yeah, because because

1749
01:30:08,280 --> 01:30:10,439
Speaker 8: other people are like, hey, my car's over there too, Yeah.

1750
01:30:11,280 --> 01:30:12,880
Speaker 9: There in between us and where we parked our cars

1751
01:30:12,920 --> 01:30:14,840
Speaker 9: right now, Yeah, and then they turn the l rad

1752
01:30:14,920 --> 01:30:17,400
Speaker 9: around right and then they tell us that they have

1753
01:30:17,479 --> 01:30:21,000
Speaker 9: issued a dispersal order due to something about like a

1754
01:30:21,080 --> 01:30:24,160
Speaker 9: legal conduct, which again, we are standing on the platform

1755
01:30:24,160 --> 01:30:25,960
Speaker 9: with a light rail station at this point, and I

1756
01:30:26,000 --> 01:30:28,080
Speaker 9: have seen no one do anything other than stand around.

1757
01:30:28,080 --> 01:30:30,320
Speaker 9: I've seen someone through us, No, but up somewhere else

1758
01:30:30,720 --> 01:30:33,320
Speaker 9: we're in a different location. And then they say we

1759
01:30:33,400 --> 01:30:37,400
Speaker 9: have five minutes to disperse, and they they give us

1760
01:30:37,400 --> 01:30:40,600
Speaker 9: a cardinal direction. We have to disperse east.

1761
01:30:40,600 --> 01:30:45,120
Speaker 8: Onto a road that no one with us knew what was. Yeah,

1762
01:30:45,240 --> 01:30:49,080
Speaker 8: we're all looking like we're in a kind of weirdricade.

1763
01:30:49,120 --> 01:30:51,800
Speaker 9: I had previously tried to walk up to this line

1764
01:30:51,880 --> 01:30:55,639
Speaker 9: and be like, can we go through to our car please?

1765
01:30:55,720 --> 01:30:57,720
Speaker 8: Yeah, we would like to disperse, Yeah, because at this

1766
01:30:57,760 --> 01:31:00,479
Speaker 8: point we're like this is just going bad.

1767
01:31:00,640 --> 01:31:04,519
Speaker 9: Yeah, we're pressed now to be there, right, We're here

1768
01:31:04,560 --> 01:31:06,799
Speaker 9: to report and if we get arrested, we can't report

1769
01:31:07,360 --> 01:31:08,559
Speaker 9: and there's.

1770
01:31:08,360 --> 01:31:09,200
Speaker 8: Nothing to report on.

1771
01:31:09,520 --> 01:31:13,240
Speaker 9: Yeah, because the cops have cattled us with two other press.

1772
01:31:12,960 --> 01:31:15,960
Speaker 8: Yeah, the rest of the Italian news crew who can't

1773
01:31:16,320 --> 01:31:19,480
Speaker 8: don't have a camera. But they're still trying to do reporting,

1774
01:31:19,600 --> 01:31:21,719
Speaker 8: but brave as hell. Yeah, because they're just still standing

1775
01:31:21,760 --> 01:31:24,839
Speaker 8: there and they're like, yeah, you know, fake Italian accents,

1776
01:31:24,840 --> 01:31:28,160
Speaker 8: and they're just like our camera person got made.

1777
01:31:28,360 --> 01:31:30,000
Speaker 9: Yeah, they'll be fine, but they got made.

1778
01:31:30,160 --> 01:31:30,599
Speaker 8: Yeah.

1779
01:31:30,640 --> 01:31:33,840
Speaker 9: And so the cops had very clearly indicated that they

1780
01:31:33,840 --> 01:31:37,840
Speaker 9: were not interested in that arrangement. So we went back

1781
01:31:37,880 --> 01:31:41,560
Speaker 9: to standing there, wondering which way was east. I was

1782
01:31:41,600 --> 01:31:43,479
Speaker 9: trying to get under my last to my watch. I

1783
01:31:43,479 --> 01:31:44,400
Speaker 9: could pull up a company.

1784
01:31:44,400 --> 01:31:46,200
Speaker 8: I had figured out which way was east. I even

1785
01:31:46,240 --> 01:31:49,160
Speaker 8: had a suspicion about how to go that way. But

1786
01:31:49,240 --> 01:31:51,880
Speaker 8: I am willing. I believe I'm talking to other people

1787
01:31:51,920 --> 01:31:55,920
Speaker 8: who are elsewhere there that day, that day, today, this morning.

1788
01:31:55,960 --> 01:31:58,520
Speaker 8: It's been a long day. I don't normally drink caffeine.

1789
01:31:58,760 --> 01:32:02,080
Speaker 8: I am on caffeine. I believe that is where the

1790
01:32:02,160 --> 01:32:05,040
Speaker 8: other line of police was starting to kettle people from you.

1791
01:32:05,160 --> 01:32:06,960
Speaker 8: It seems like, so I actually believe they were not

1792
01:32:07,160 --> 01:32:08,840
Speaker 8: actually offering us away out at all.

1793
01:32:09,360 --> 01:32:11,759
Speaker 9: Yeah, I, on the other hand, was readers. I couldn't

1794
01:32:11,760 --> 01:32:14,200
Speaker 9: get to my watch was I knew it was before noon,

1795
01:32:14,240 --> 01:32:16,240
Speaker 9: so I was looking for where the sun was, and

1796
01:32:16,280 --> 01:32:21,400
Speaker 9: I knew some celestial navigation and at that point we saw. Well,

1797
01:32:21,439 --> 01:32:23,880
Speaker 9: actually at that point we went to the train platform

1798
01:32:23,960 --> 01:32:26,280
Speaker 9: and a light rail train was going not towards our

1799
01:32:26,280 --> 01:32:28,880
Speaker 9: carpet away from it, but it didn't open the doors

1800
01:32:28,920 --> 01:32:30,600
Speaker 9: when it came to the platform. Yeah, we were like,

1801
01:32:30,640 --> 01:32:33,479
Speaker 9: we want to go though, I said, Margaret, We're fucked.

1802
01:32:35,080 --> 01:32:39,000
Speaker 9: Margaret said, get ready to run. I guess yeah. And

1803
01:32:39,040 --> 01:32:43,639
Speaker 9: then as they were advancing towards us, comrade light rail

1804
01:32:43,680 --> 01:32:44,439
Speaker 9: train arrived.

1805
01:32:45,120 --> 01:32:48,160
Speaker 8: Everyone got on the train literally last minute.

1806
01:32:48,280 --> 01:32:54,320
Speaker 9: Yeah, scootle straight past the police line. And then we

1807
01:32:54,360 --> 01:32:57,120
Speaker 9: got off and commenced walking around to try and find

1808
01:32:57,160 --> 01:32:58,080
Speaker 9: a way back to our vehicle.

1809
01:32:59,000 --> 01:33:02,000
Speaker 8: So that was our morning and that was I mean, whatever,

1810
01:33:02,240 --> 01:33:04,800
Speaker 8: it's weird, the party is least affected, but to be

1811
01:33:04,880 --> 01:33:08,080
Speaker 8: like really just transparent about it. This is the coldest

1812
01:33:08,160 --> 01:33:12,559
Speaker 8: day of my life. I've experienced negative temperatures before. Yeah,

1813
01:33:12,640 --> 01:33:16,040
Speaker 8: I haven't experienced negative thirty something wind chill. Yeah, Like

1814
01:33:16,400 --> 01:33:20,680
Speaker 8: we were seeing people getting off the light rail. Everyone's

1815
01:33:21,600 --> 01:33:24,760
Speaker 8: eye lashes had frost in them. Yeah.

1816
01:33:25,320 --> 01:33:28,240
Speaker 9: Anyway, just to just to keep hitting that point. Well,

1817
01:33:28,280 --> 01:33:31,000
Speaker 9: like that was one of my concerns with detainment, right

1818
01:33:31,080 --> 01:33:33,839
Speaker 9: with like cops ledgendarily don't treat people in their custody

1819
01:33:33,920 --> 01:33:36,880
Speaker 9: very well, right, and I was very worried about right two,

1820
01:33:37,760 --> 01:33:39,439
Speaker 9: they did seem to be getting the people they arrested

1821
01:33:39,520 --> 01:33:43,160
Speaker 9: quickly on that bus. Yeah, but like that my worries, right,

1822
01:33:43,160 --> 01:33:45,960
Speaker 9: you got if you lose a glove when you're being handcuffed,

1823
01:33:46,160 --> 01:33:48,040
Speaker 9: that's not a that's you know, that's serious.

1824
01:33:48,120 --> 01:33:49,880
Speaker 8: Yeah, that's like maybe you lose your fingers now at

1825
01:33:49,880 --> 01:33:52,120
Speaker 8: the end of that like because it's like genuinely like

1826
01:33:52,200 --> 01:33:54,160
Speaker 8: a I know, we keep harping on it, but it's

1827
01:33:54,200 --> 01:33:58,400
Speaker 8: just it's a it's a present characteristic. Yeah, my car

1828
01:33:58,479 --> 01:34:00,519
Speaker 8: is a mess right now because we can't clean it

1829
01:34:00,800 --> 01:34:05,599
Speaker 8: because that involves standing outside in like negative eighteen or whatever.

1830
01:34:05,680 --> 01:34:08,360
Speaker 8: The fuck. All of these numbers have become meaningless to

1831
01:34:08,439 --> 01:34:12,640
Speaker 8: me at this point anyway. You know what keeps me warm, Margaret,

1832
01:34:12,760 --> 01:34:15,559
Speaker 8: the handwarmers we purchased with the money that we get

1833
01:34:15,560 --> 01:34:16,639
Speaker 8: from advertisements. Yeah.

1834
01:34:16,640 --> 01:34:19,280
Speaker 9: I was gonna say, thinking about thinking about how the

1835
01:34:20,080 --> 01:34:22,439
Speaker 9: products and services support the show love to support me

1836
01:34:22,479 --> 01:34:23,720
Speaker 9: and the work I do, But I don't think they

1837
01:34:23,760 --> 01:34:25,160
Speaker 9: actually know what I do. And to look at our

1838
01:34:25,160 --> 01:34:26,680
Speaker 9: listening numbers to be honest.

1839
01:34:26,479 --> 01:34:30,600
Speaker 8: Yeah, I think they don't hear our transitions in troubles

1840
01:34:30,640 --> 01:34:41,360
Speaker 8: shirt and they don't and here they are ander back.

1841
01:34:42,400 --> 01:34:44,320
Speaker 8: So we go to this and then we go to

1842
01:34:44,360 --> 01:34:48,360
Speaker 8: the clear highlight of the day, which is the ice

1843
01:34:48,479 --> 01:34:50,640
Speaker 8: vehicle crashed into Yeah.

1844
01:34:50,800 --> 01:34:52,680
Speaker 9: Yeah, this is when we decided we got to We

1845
01:34:53,479 --> 01:34:57,120
Speaker 9: received words and an ice vehicle had t boned telephone.

1846
01:34:57,240 --> 01:35:00,200
Speaker 8: Yeah. Yeah, I was doing a blue sky thread and

1847
01:35:00,200 --> 01:35:02,160
Speaker 8: I was like, Nope, that's a shorter thread because we

1848
01:35:02,200 --> 01:35:03,520
Speaker 8: got to go. Yeah.

1849
01:35:04,040 --> 01:35:06,680
Speaker 9: I'm not as good as Margaret is at skating when

1850
01:35:06,720 --> 01:35:09,120
Speaker 9: I'm at things, so I'm so used to being in

1851
01:35:09,160 --> 01:35:11,320
Speaker 9: places where it would be a risky to everyone involved. Yeah,

1852
01:35:11,320 --> 01:35:14,000
Speaker 9: posted I was there. Yeah, so we yeah, we go, right,

1853
01:35:14,040 --> 01:35:16,639
Speaker 9: we park a few bucks away. Once we see flashing lights. Yeah,

1854
01:35:16,680 --> 01:35:19,559
Speaker 9: we start booging up the street at fast walk pace,

1855
01:35:19,600 --> 01:35:21,360
Speaker 9: which is about as fast as you're gonna go when

1856
01:35:21,360 --> 01:35:23,280
Speaker 9: it's an inch of ice on everything. Yeah, and we

1857
01:35:23,360 --> 01:35:26,240
Speaker 9: see this car that has fair there's traffic coming roundabout

1858
01:35:26,800 --> 01:35:29,800
Speaker 9: that clearly they were not expecting to be there. It

1859
01:35:29,840 --> 01:35:31,760
Speaker 9: looks like they've they've been trying to go straight over

1860
01:35:31,800 --> 01:35:32,559
Speaker 9: to round about and.

1861
01:35:32,560 --> 01:35:34,840
Speaker 8: Have Yeah, they're just like the front of their car

1862
01:35:34,920 --> 01:35:39,320
Speaker 8: is just crashed in a fifteen mile per hour street. Yeah.

1863
01:35:39,400 --> 01:35:41,200
Speaker 9: Yeah, like a street where like you would expect a

1864
01:35:41,280 --> 01:35:42,840
Speaker 9: child to be riding a bicycle in the summer.

1865
01:35:42,960 --> 01:35:45,240
Speaker 8: Yeah, and it's like it's one of those streets that's

1866
01:35:45,280 --> 01:35:50,320
Speaker 8: like cars on both sides, one lane rane one lane

1867
01:35:50,360 --> 01:35:53,320
Speaker 8: that two cars have to pass each other by backing up. Yeah,

1868
01:35:53,320 --> 01:35:55,080
Speaker 8: and they clearly just blew through it. They don't give

1869
01:35:55,080 --> 01:35:56,920
Speaker 8: a fuck. And that's like a thing we've heard over

1870
01:35:56,960 --> 01:35:59,680
Speaker 8: and over from the people who who tail them is

1871
01:35:59,680 --> 01:36:03,960
Speaker 8: that they they drive erradically, they drive, they drive recklessly

1872
01:36:04,000 --> 01:36:07,559
Speaker 8: because they are they think they're immune to all consequences. Yeah,

1873
01:36:07,600 --> 01:36:11,439
Speaker 8: and they are. They are until someone like the only

1874
01:36:11,439 --> 01:36:15,080
Speaker 8: people giving them consequences are the people of the city,

1875
01:36:15,360 --> 01:36:18,320
Speaker 8: not in the city itself or the state.

1876
01:36:18,520 --> 01:36:22,240
Speaker 9: Yeah, this is the thing. Actually, I'll just I have

1877
01:36:22,360 --> 01:36:26,160
Speaker 9: spent more time than nearly everyone at the southern border

1878
01:36:26,160 --> 01:36:29,160
Speaker 9: of the United States in more places right in California,

1879
01:36:29,320 --> 01:36:31,760
Speaker 9: in Texas, in New Mexico, in Arizona.

1880
01:36:32,120 --> 01:36:33,439
Speaker 8: I've been up and down the border.

1881
01:36:33,560 --> 01:36:36,439
Speaker 9: There is one thing that unites the border experience, be

1882
01:36:36,520 --> 01:36:40,519
Speaker 9: it on torn or Dumb Reservation in Arizona, be in

1883
01:36:40,560 --> 01:36:44,040
Speaker 9: San Diego, being New Mexico, or in the Rio Grand

1884
01:36:44,080 --> 01:36:46,600
Speaker 9: Valley of Texas and is that border patrols driving is

1885
01:36:46,640 --> 01:36:49,800
Speaker 9: a risk to everyone. And you can hear the most

1886
01:36:49,800 --> 01:36:51,479
Speaker 9: straight up right wing people if they I love what

1887
01:36:51,479 --> 01:36:53,719
Speaker 9: they're doing. I don't want the mirgrats in my country,

1888
01:36:53,720 --> 01:36:57,280
Speaker 9: but I wish they wouldn't drive like digs and like

1889
01:36:57,320 --> 01:36:58,120
Speaker 9: they've killed.

1890
01:36:57,880 --> 01:36:59,200
Speaker 8: People on the Autumn reservation.

1891
01:36:59,360 --> 01:37:03,880
Speaker 9: Right, this is serious and that what is happening once

1892
01:37:03,920 --> 01:37:05,880
Speaker 9: again is that the border is coming to a city

1893
01:37:05,880 --> 01:37:09,080
Speaker 9: and people are seeing this is not new, it's new here.

1894
01:37:09,640 --> 01:37:12,720
Speaker 8: The driving erratically is such a perfect though example of

1895
01:37:13,000 --> 01:37:16,759
Speaker 8: what power does to people, Like you have an unaccountable force,

1896
01:37:17,240 --> 01:37:19,320
Speaker 8: and they will do horrible things. Yeah, they will do

1897
01:37:20,040 --> 01:37:23,439
Speaker 8: major horrible things like kidnapping people, and they'll do petty

1898
01:37:23,880 --> 01:37:27,160
Speaker 8: I don't care. I am just drunk on power things.

1899
01:37:27,680 --> 01:37:29,400
Speaker 9: But they will leave the cars and drive when they

1900
01:37:29,479 --> 01:37:31,720
Speaker 9: pull them out right like the second to popic Dew Park,

1901
01:37:31,960 --> 01:37:34,679
Speaker 9: or like yeah in this case, will they will case

1902
01:37:34,760 --> 01:37:35,719
Speaker 9: a telephone pole?

1903
01:37:35,920 --> 01:37:38,320
Speaker 8: Right anyway, So then we decide we're going to the

1904
01:37:38,360 --> 01:37:42,200
Speaker 8: big march downtown. Yeah, you know, because the general strike

1905
01:37:42,240 --> 01:37:44,760
Speaker 8: has a component that is a big march downtown. And

1906
01:37:45,520 --> 01:37:50,080
Speaker 8: the single most important thing about that to me was

1907
01:37:50,240 --> 01:37:53,840
Speaker 8: again to keep harping on it the cold, because I

1908
01:37:53,880 --> 01:37:55,599
Speaker 8: know a lot of people who go to these sorts

1909
01:37:55,600 --> 01:37:57,599
Speaker 8: of marches, right, and these are the sorts of marches

1910
01:37:57,600 --> 01:37:59,440
Speaker 8: that a lot of people go to who don't necessarily

1911
01:38:00,280 --> 01:38:03,559
Speaker 8: a ton of other political activity. Although here it probably

1912
01:38:03,600 --> 01:38:05,719
Speaker 8: feels a little different because a lot of the people

1913
01:38:05,760 --> 01:38:08,280
Speaker 8: go into that march who probably are the kind of

1914
01:38:09,040 --> 01:38:11,519
Speaker 8: sign holding going to the big march kind of people

1915
01:38:12,720 --> 01:38:16,680
Speaker 8: are also quite possibly at the very least showing up

1916
01:38:16,680 --> 01:38:17,600
Speaker 8: on air whistles.

1917
01:38:17,840 --> 01:38:21,160
Speaker 9: Yeah, doing the work right there, buying the groceries, whatever

1918
01:38:21,200 --> 01:38:24,080
Speaker 9: it is. Yeah, Like I think one thing, I was strucked.

1919
01:38:24,080 --> 01:38:26,559
Speaker 9: So we're walking towards march, and it is one of

1920
01:38:26,560 --> 01:38:28,040
Speaker 9: the genders you get us a lot when you're going

1921
01:38:28,040 --> 01:38:29,960
Speaker 9: to a big action, right, you feel like a salmon

1922
01:38:30,160 --> 01:38:32,719
Speaker 9: and everyone's just swimming up and swimming in the stream

1923
01:38:32,760 --> 01:38:36,400
Speaker 9: together or you know whatever, tuna and you're all going

1924
01:38:36,400 --> 01:38:39,120
Speaker 9: towards the same space. And that's cool. That's always nice

1925
01:38:39,200 --> 01:38:40,080
Speaker 9: to feel the size.

1926
01:38:40,560 --> 01:38:43,040
Speaker 8: And then we get there and it's big, like there's

1927
01:38:43,080 --> 01:38:43,599
Speaker 8: a lot of.

1928
01:38:43,560 --> 01:38:46,880
Speaker 9: People, and it's cold. Like I know, we keep talking

1929
01:38:46,960 --> 01:38:51,000
Speaker 9: on about the cold, it is cold as shit. Margaret's

1930
01:38:51,040 --> 01:38:53,639
Speaker 9: ear was a little bit out. We were both worried

1931
01:38:53,640 --> 01:38:57,280
Speaker 9: about Margaret's ear. Yeah, like it's you want to ensure it,

1932
01:38:57,520 --> 01:39:01,400
Speaker 9: like skin coverage in these temperatures. Yeah, we get there

1933
01:39:01,439 --> 01:39:03,840
Speaker 9: and like so they're meeting in like a big square

1934
01:39:03,920 --> 01:39:06,080
Speaker 9: and then they're marching through the street, right, Yeah, and

1935
01:39:06,120 --> 01:39:08,400
Speaker 9: there are also people on like there are internal walkways

1936
01:39:08,439 --> 01:39:10,719
Speaker 9: between buildings above the street and all of them around

1937
01:39:10,720 --> 01:39:13,960
Speaker 9: with people with signs or cheering and stuff. And the

1938
01:39:14,000 --> 01:39:16,200
Speaker 9: thing I noticed as we got there was like, immediately

1939
01:39:16,200 --> 01:39:18,519
Speaker 9: we set foot in that square, we're once again being

1940
01:39:18,520 --> 01:39:22,200
Speaker 9: offered hot cocoa hand warmers. There's a guy with like

1941
01:39:22,240 --> 01:39:27,040
Speaker 9: a you know, there's orange insulatd containers that they use

1942
01:39:27,080 --> 01:39:30,400
Speaker 9: it like sports like a gator. Then he's got soup

1943
01:39:30,479 --> 01:39:34,600
Speaker 9: in it. Yeah, he's backpacking the super it's vegan and

1944
01:39:34,640 --> 01:39:37,960
Speaker 9: gluten free and he's handing out soup. There are multiple

1945
01:39:38,000 --> 01:39:39,920
Speaker 9: people who have just set up to care for people

1946
01:39:39,960 --> 01:39:44,080
Speaker 9: because it's cold and people might need caring for, right, Like,

1947
01:39:44,960 --> 01:39:48,080
Speaker 9: there are all kinds of facilities there to like look

1948
01:39:48,120 --> 01:39:52,519
Speaker 9: after folks. Yeah, we received some hand warmers. I think

1949
01:39:52,600 --> 01:39:54,840
Speaker 9: I think you and I both took some hand warmers.

1950
01:39:55,160 --> 01:39:57,719
Speaker 9: And there wasn't at least where we were like a speaker.

1951
01:39:58,040 --> 01:40:01,960
Speaker 9: There was some chanting at this point, like I would

1952
01:40:02,040 --> 01:40:04,040
Speaker 9: love to include a be a roll of chanting. Unfortunately

1953
01:40:04,040 --> 01:40:08,000
Speaker 9: it was so cold that both my voice recorders refused

1954
01:40:08,000 --> 01:40:08,400
Speaker 9: to work.

1955
01:40:08,400 --> 01:40:12,559
Speaker 8: Oh yeah, one by one, every electronic device that James

1956
01:40:12,600 --> 01:40:15,800
Speaker 8: brought ate shit, and I like, you know I much

1957
01:40:15,880 --> 01:40:17,560
Speaker 8: you'll listen to my shit. I'm much more of a

1958
01:40:17,680 --> 01:40:21,200
Speaker 8: ViBe's podcaster, where I like just observe and then write

1959
01:40:21,200 --> 01:40:25,559
Speaker 8: everything down. James is a proper podcaster and journalist and like, uh,

1960
01:40:26,040 --> 01:40:29,679
Speaker 8: you know, as b roll of things, not as much

1961
01:40:29,720 --> 01:40:30,639
Speaker 8: today yet.

1962
01:40:30,800 --> 01:40:33,439
Speaker 9: Everybody, my voice recorder, which has been through the Darien

1963
01:40:33,479 --> 01:40:36,160
Speaker 9: Gap as it tended this Syrian civil war, it's been

1964
01:40:36,200 --> 01:40:38,080
Speaker 9: to the place where the US dropped a nuclear bomb.

1965
01:40:38,439 --> 01:40:40,360
Speaker 9: She didn't make it out of Minneapolis. It's gone to

1966
01:40:40,439 --> 01:40:43,280
Speaker 9: Valhalla now, yeah, which is sad. I even tried to

1967
01:40:43,320 --> 01:40:45,920
Speaker 9: record on my phone, but my phone just black screened on.

1968
01:40:45,960 --> 01:40:47,920
Speaker 8: Me, like this comedy.

1969
01:40:48,160 --> 01:40:50,760
Speaker 9: Yeah, it was pretty funny when when the cell phone tired,

1970
01:40:50,800 --> 01:40:53,880
Speaker 9: it was like previously I had been painting a picture

1971
01:40:53,920 --> 01:40:57,639
Speaker 9: fuel using my nose to unlock the phone and then

1972
01:40:57,720 --> 01:41:00,400
Speaker 9: like actuate apps because I didn't want to take my

1973
01:41:00,479 --> 01:41:01,040
Speaker 9: glove off.

1974
01:41:01,400 --> 01:41:04,760
Speaker 8: We would we would take turns taking our hands out

1975
01:41:04,800 --> 01:41:07,320
Speaker 8: of gloves to touch buttons on things, yeah, or.

1976
01:41:07,280 --> 01:41:10,800
Speaker 9: To like adjust each os clothes or like, yeah, someone

1977
01:41:10,840 --> 01:41:12,680
Speaker 9: worts me doing the phone thing and they gave me

1978
01:41:12,720 --> 01:41:14,240
Speaker 9: a nod like yeah doing the nose phone.

1979
01:41:14,400 --> 01:41:17,760
Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah totally, And like, I don't know, I just

1980
01:41:17,880 --> 01:41:22,320
Speaker 8: I keep talking about how the sense of togetherness it's inspiring.

1981
01:41:22,760 --> 01:41:26,160
Speaker 8: Like full disclosure, I'm not a big rally person. I'm

1982
01:41:26,240 --> 01:41:29,960
Speaker 8: much personally more interested in mutual aid and direct action.

1983
01:41:31,160 --> 01:41:34,360
Speaker 8: I'm disinterested in it when it seems like a way

1984
01:41:34,360 --> 01:41:36,880
Speaker 8: for people to check off that they've done their resistance.

1985
01:41:37,320 --> 01:41:40,200
Speaker 9: Yeah, definitely if that feels like you're warm fuzzy and

1986
01:41:40,240 --> 01:41:40,960
Speaker 9: that's all you want.

1987
01:41:41,400 --> 01:41:44,200
Speaker 8: But in this case, it was more I don't know

1988
01:41:44,280 --> 01:41:47,920
Speaker 8: for certain, it was more of a warm fuzzy for

1989
01:41:48,120 --> 01:41:51,400
Speaker 8: people who are also just doing this hard thing day

1990
01:41:51,439 --> 01:41:52,720
Speaker 8: in and day out.

1991
01:41:52,960 --> 01:41:55,120
Speaker 9: It felt like when you and your friends, like, you know,

1992
01:41:55,120 --> 01:41:57,720
Speaker 9: when you're doing a hard, long neutral aid thing, right,

1993
01:41:57,800 --> 01:42:00,160
Speaker 9: you know, like or let's say you're in days a

1994
01:42:00,200 --> 01:42:02,720
Speaker 9: prodict that feeds people every week and once a year

1995
01:42:02,760 --> 01:42:05,120
Speaker 9: you get together and have a dinner together. Right, it

1996
01:42:05,160 --> 01:42:07,320
Speaker 9: felt a bit like that, or like yeah, you know

1997
01:42:07,360 --> 01:42:09,040
Speaker 9: a little bit like when we were feeding people in

1998
01:42:09,040 --> 01:42:12,080
Speaker 9: the desert, we would sit down afterwards and was talking

1999
01:42:12,080 --> 01:42:14,639
Speaker 9: about this with someone. Today we would like eat vegan

2000
01:42:14,760 --> 01:42:16,800
Speaker 9: MRIs out of the packet like people.

2001
01:42:16,479 --> 01:42:17,360
Speaker 8: Eat go goots.

2002
01:42:17,640 --> 01:42:20,080
Speaker 9: Yeah, because we were too tired to walk of food

2003
01:42:20,080 --> 01:42:22,160
Speaker 9: while we were hungry. But we would spend a little

2004
01:42:22,160 --> 01:42:24,400
Speaker 9: bit of time in community and celebrate what we've done.

2005
01:42:24,760 --> 01:42:26,920
Speaker 9: What was cool though, was like sometimes after those big

2006
01:42:26,960 --> 01:42:30,479
Speaker 9: actions you feel a little lonely, but like it felt

2007
01:42:30,479 --> 01:42:32,960
Speaker 9: like that was just everyone going over there, but like

2008
01:42:33,040 --> 01:42:35,400
Speaker 9: there was also everyone elsewhere as you kind of went

2009
01:42:35,439 --> 01:42:36,439
Speaker 9: around the city, you.

2010
01:42:36,360 --> 01:42:38,479
Speaker 8: Know, right, Like it wasn't like that was the end

2011
01:42:38,479 --> 01:42:40,679
Speaker 8: of it. Yeah, And I was I was worried it would,

2012
01:42:40,880 --> 01:42:43,680
Speaker 8: you know, draw people away from other things. But you know,

2013
01:42:43,840 --> 01:42:46,680
Speaker 8: even this huge crowd was only a tiny portion of

2014
01:42:46,720 --> 01:42:48,880
Speaker 8: the people doing things in the city. And people are

2015
01:42:48,920 --> 01:42:51,200
Speaker 8: still doing things. And at one point I was like, hey,

2016
01:42:51,240 --> 01:42:54,240
Speaker 8: it's it's maybe it's Thursday. We were like, hey, we

2017
01:42:54,280 --> 01:42:57,479
Speaker 8: saw less people out today. Was that because the coal

2018
01:42:57,600 --> 01:42:59,720
Speaker 8: was starting to dry? People inside? And we talked to

2019
01:42:59,760 --> 01:43:03,320
Speaker 8: some and they're like, no, ice was less out today

2020
01:43:03,320 --> 01:43:06,320
Speaker 8: than it was yesterday. But if ice had come out,

2021
01:43:06,680 --> 01:43:09,080
Speaker 8: all of those people would have come out again. They

2022
01:43:09,120 --> 01:43:11,920
Speaker 8: were all staged and ready to go. And one of

2023
01:43:11,920 --> 01:43:15,160
Speaker 8: the things, actually, the warm fuzzy thing that feeling. One

2024
01:43:15,160 --> 01:43:17,240
Speaker 8: of the things that we talked to is that people

2025
01:43:17,240 --> 01:43:19,439
Speaker 8: are very aware that they're organizing for the long haul,

2026
01:43:19,840 --> 01:43:22,760
Speaker 8: like yeah, you know, I again, I'm I don't have

2027
01:43:22,800 --> 01:43:24,040
Speaker 8: the news in front of me. But the word on

2028
01:43:24,080 --> 01:43:25,840
Speaker 8: the ground here is people being like, we think ice

2029
01:43:25,920 --> 01:43:29,439
Speaker 8: might be here till June, right, and so people are like,

2030
01:43:29,720 --> 01:43:32,479
Speaker 8: how do we do that? You know? And one of

2031
01:43:32,520 --> 01:43:37,240
Speaker 8: the things is that, like there are people providing things

2032
01:43:37,320 --> 01:43:40,479
Speaker 8: to the people doing things, you know, the people whose

2033
01:43:40,560 --> 01:43:42,760
Speaker 8: job is to provide things for other people are having

2034
01:43:42,800 --> 01:43:45,320
Speaker 8: people provide things for them. Yeah, And there's this moment

2035
01:43:45,360 --> 01:43:48,320
Speaker 8: I think about all the time. I'll accidentally do like

2036
01:43:48,360 --> 01:43:51,160
Speaker 8: the you know, I was at this protest in the

2037
01:43:51,200 --> 01:43:54,920
Speaker 8: Netherlands and the cops try to grab my friend. Yeah,

2038
01:43:54,960 --> 01:43:57,320
Speaker 8: and they try to grab him because he's screaming the

2039
01:43:57,320 --> 01:43:59,800
Speaker 8: Netherlands as a police state, which they try to make

2040
01:43:59,800 --> 01:44:02,240
Speaker 8: their point by trying to grab him, right, So everyone

2041
01:44:02,240 --> 01:44:04,759
Speaker 8: holds on to him. So the cops start just beating

2042
01:44:04,760 --> 01:44:06,960
Speaker 8: the crap out of the people holding on to him.

2043
01:44:07,160 --> 01:44:09,080
Speaker 8: So people start grabbing onto the people who are holding

2044
01:44:09,120 --> 01:44:11,240
Speaker 8: on to the person. They start trying to beat the

2045
01:44:11,240 --> 01:44:12,559
Speaker 8: people who are holding non of the people who are

2046
01:44:12,560 --> 01:44:13,800
Speaker 8: holding on to the people who are holding non of

2047
01:44:13,840 --> 01:44:15,679
Speaker 8: the people. By the time it gets to like four

2048
01:44:15,760 --> 01:44:18,599
Speaker 8: layers out, the cops are just like, yeah, fucking yeah,

2049
01:44:18,640 --> 01:44:22,040
Speaker 8: fuck this all right. The center person is never arrested,

2050
01:44:23,080 --> 01:44:27,479
Speaker 8: you know. And that's what solidarity is. But that's also

2051
01:44:27,640 --> 01:44:29,599
Speaker 8: a lot of the mutual aid stuff, like we're talking

2052
01:44:29,600 --> 01:44:31,599
Speaker 8: about to people who are like, yeah, we work day

2053
01:44:31,640 --> 01:44:34,280
Speaker 8: in and day out on this stuff, and other people

2054
01:44:34,560 --> 01:44:39,439
Speaker 8: are like massage therapists and regular therapists are talking with us,

2055
01:44:39,920 --> 01:44:44,439
Speaker 8: you know, and like people are building the infrastructure to

2056
01:44:44,520 --> 01:44:48,880
Speaker 8: try and make it sustainable, and who knows. I don't

2057
01:44:48,880 --> 01:44:53,040
Speaker 8: know whether you can truly sustain what's happening here, right,

2058
01:44:53,520 --> 01:44:56,200
Speaker 8: but like they're gonna fucking try. Yeah.

2059
01:44:56,240 --> 01:44:59,559
Speaker 9: The way I like to explain anarchism to people, it's

2060
01:44:59,640 --> 01:45:02,360
Speaker 9: sometimes the confusion, right that people think anarchism is a

2061
01:45:02,400 --> 01:45:05,040
Speaker 9: predilection for chaos and violence, and that's not what it is.

2062
01:45:05,760 --> 01:45:09,439
Speaker 9: I like to explain that anarchism at its core is

2063
01:45:09,640 --> 01:45:12,880
Speaker 9: building ways of caring for one another that don't reinforce

2064
01:45:12,920 --> 01:45:16,759
Speaker 9: ways of controlling one another. Yeah, and that's what people

2065
01:45:16,840 --> 01:45:20,080
Speaker 9: are doing here, right, Yeah, under any name. Yeah, it

2066
01:45:20,120 --> 01:45:22,560
Speaker 9: doesn't mean that the rest of it is really ephemeral.

2067
01:45:22,960 --> 01:45:25,920
Speaker 8: A lot of them are anarchists, but not not anywhere

2068
01:45:25,920 --> 01:45:26,840
Speaker 8: near the majority of them.

2069
01:45:27,040 --> 01:45:29,320
Speaker 9: Yeah, but I think that we can use what Gym's

2070
01:45:29,320 --> 01:45:32,320
Speaker 9: got called the anarchist squint right, and sees people building

2071
01:45:32,320 --> 01:45:37,400
Speaker 9: networks here that make the state unnecessary. Yeah, irrelevant right now.

2072
01:45:37,640 --> 01:45:39,760
Speaker 9: The violence is still very much relevant, but others. Right,

2073
01:45:39,760 --> 01:45:42,200
Speaker 9: the Feds are going to cut funding. Yeah, they can

2074
01:45:42,240 --> 01:45:45,160
Speaker 9: cut foods damps in Minnesota. Yeah, people are still going

2075
01:45:45,200 --> 01:45:46,400
Speaker 9: to get food to their neighbors.

2076
01:45:46,800 --> 01:45:46,960
Speaker 8: Right.

2077
01:45:47,000 --> 01:45:50,920
Speaker 9: They can cut education funding. We heard that there are

2078
01:45:50,960 --> 01:45:54,080
Speaker 9: schools which have a very diverse background. And by the

2079
01:45:54,080 --> 01:45:56,240
Speaker 9: diverse here, I don't just mean like people of different races,

2080
01:45:56,280 --> 01:45:58,040
Speaker 9: but also people of different income brackets.

2081
01:45:58,120 --> 01:45:58,280
Speaker 8: Right.

2082
01:45:58,560 --> 01:46:02,320
Speaker 9: And the wealthier parents are like, which families aren't able

2083
01:46:02,360 --> 01:46:04,479
Speaker 9: to work? How do I help them make their rent?

2084
01:46:04,680 --> 01:46:08,080
Speaker 8: Yeah? Oh god, it was funny when yeah, people were like, oh,

2085
01:46:08,120 --> 01:46:11,240
Speaker 8: you know the thing where like the rich parents are

2086
01:46:11,280 --> 01:46:14,360
Speaker 8: like really excited to help everyone and feed everyone. I

2087
01:46:14,400 --> 01:46:17,160
Speaker 8: was like, no, that, Yeah, that's how you realize that

2088
01:46:17,160 --> 01:46:23,240
Speaker 8: it's not the stereotype like it should be.

2089
01:46:23,439 --> 01:46:26,240
Speaker 9: Yeah, it should be. Well, I think folks are really like, huh,

2090
01:46:26,280 --> 01:46:29,400
Speaker 9: what are the world without? These people look like worse?

2091
01:46:29,920 --> 01:46:32,240
Speaker 9: I don't want that. Yeah, Like what do I have

2092
01:46:32,320 --> 01:46:34,080
Speaker 9: that I can use to stop that? I have my time,

2093
01:46:34,120 --> 01:46:35,600
Speaker 9: I have my body, I have my money. Let me

2094
01:46:35,640 --> 01:46:39,200
Speaker 9: give them all of them? Yeah, yeah, I thought that

2095
01:46:39,320 --> 01:46:42,800
Speaker 9: was very cool. I think the the specific thing that

2096
01:46:42,920 --> 01:46:47,000
Speaker 9: has made people I saw little signs. They have the

2097
01:46:47,120 --> 01:46:49,200
Speaker 9: name for one of the guys from Liam, the young,

2098
01:46:49,360 --> 01:46:51,360
Speaker 9: very very young kid, right, the five year old kid

2099
01:46:51,360 --> 01:46:55,000
Speaker 9: with the Superman on it was yeah, grabbed the spider Man. Yeah,

2100
01:46:55,000 --> 01:46:56,320
Speaker 9: he was grabbed the other day. I saw a lot

2101
01:46:56,320 --> 01:46:57,880
Speaker 9: of people with science about that like.

2102
01:46:57,960 --> 01:46:58,679
Speaker 8: Made me want to cry.

2103
01:46:58,760 --> 01:47:03,200
Speaker 9: And just seeing the signs with these little outrages continue

2104
01:47:03,200 --> 01:47:06,799
Speaker 9: to bring people out of their safe, warm comfort bubbles

2105
01:47:06,840 --> 01:47:09,720
Speaker 9: and be like no, like I am going to do

2106
01:47:09,760 --> 01:47:13,360
Speaker 9: whatever it takes, my money, my time, whatever, right.

2107
01:47:13,280 --> 01:47:16,200
Speaker 8: Yeah you know William van s Bronson. Yes, for people

2108
01:47:16,200 --> 01:47:20,479
Speaker 8: who are listening, there was an IWW member named William

2109
01:47:20,520 --> 01:47:23,719
Speaker 8: von s Bronson who was killed by ice a number

2110
01:47:23,720 --> 01:47:28,000
Speaker 8: of years ago now because he decided that he would

2111
01:47:28,080 --> 01:47:30,840
Speaker 8: go and try to set some ice stuff on fire.

2112
01:47:31,200 --> 01:47:31,800
Speaker 8: Middle of the night.

2113
01:47:31,880 --> 01:47:34,080
Speaker 9: Yeah, I think it was busses, right, unoccupied buses to

2114
01:47:34,080 --> 01:47:34,599
Speaker 9: be clear.

2115
01:47:34,520 --> 01:47:36,800
Speaker 8: Yeah, middle of the night, empty buses, the busses that

2116
01:47:36,800 --> 01:47:40,479
Speaker 8: they're using to kidnap people. And the cops showed up

2117
01:47:40,479 --> 01:47:42,960
Speaker 8: and killed him. Yeah right, And he was seen as

2118
01:47:43,080 --> 01:47:46,760
Speaker 8: kind of this this lone wing nut. Yeah, you know,

2119
01:47:47,479 --> 01:47:49,680
Speaker 8: and I'm watching it and I'm like, this man is

2120
01:47:49,680 --> 01:47:51,920
Speaker 8: going to be written about history books. That's like a

2121
01:47:52,000 --> 01:47:55,040
Speaker 8: guy actually started doing something early about this. And in

2122
01:47:55,160 --> 01:47:58,360
Speaker 8: his statement that he wrote, I'm not telling people that

2123
01:47:58,400 --> 01:48:01,360
Speaker 8: this was a wise action for him to have taken, whatever,

2124
01:48:02,200 --> 01:48:05,400
Speaker 8: But in his statement he wrote, he wrote a line

2125
01:48:05,760 --> 01:48:09,479
Speaker 8: something like, I am off to fulfill my childhood promise

2126
01:48:09,560 --> 01:48:14,040
Speaker 8: to myself to be noble, and like he knew he

2127
01:48:14,160 --> 01:48:17,120
Speaker 8: was going to die doing that action, right. That certainly

2128
01:48:17,160 --> 01:48:21,160
Speaker 8: seems to be the tone from the letter. But that

2129
01:48:21,360 --> 01:48:26,840
Speaker 8: line the idea of fulfilling your promise to yourself to

2130
01:48:26,880 --> 01:48:30,840
Speaker 8: be noble, And the thing that is beautiful here is

2131
01:48:30,840 --> 01:48:35,120
Speaker 8: that you can now do that with people and effectively.

2132
01:48:35,960 --> 01:48:37,479
Speaker 8: And I think that a lot of the things that

2133
01:48:37,560 --> 01:48:41,559
Speaker 8: stop people from taking action is a belief that it

2134
01:48:41,600 --> 01:48:46,160
Speaker 8: would be shot in the dark. It would be alone thing.

2135
01:48:46,240 --> 01:48:51,559
Speaker 8: It wouldn't It wouldn't accomplish anything, right, because most actions

2136
01:48:51,560 --> 01:48:54,800
Speaker 8: you can take yourself don't accomplish nearly as much. And

2137
01:48:54,840 --> 01:48:56,599
Speaker 8: to be clear that the people who built rapid response

2138
01:48:56,640 --> 01:48:59,920
Speaker 8: networks here they learn from other cities. They learn from Chicago,

2139
01:49:00,040 --> 01:49:02,600
Speaker 8: who learned from la Right, that is the lineage that

2140
01:49:02,920 --> 01:49:07,560
Speaker 8: I've heard presented. Yeah, but they have developed and expanded

2141
01:49:07,600 --> 01:49:12,160
Speaker 8: because this is actually a bigger thing than operation on ices,

2142
01:49:12,200 --> 01:49:16,320
Speaker 8: part than either of those. But so people can do

2143
01:49:17,960 --> 01:49:21,200
Speaker 8: We've been put on this earth to do, which is

2144
01:49:22,760 --> 01:49:26,840
Speaker 8: be our best selves. And I think that there's even

2145
01:49:27,040 --> 01:49:29,760
Speaker 8: as hard as it is for people, I think that

2146
01:49:29,800 --> 01:49:35,200
Speaker 8: there's a dark beauty that they get to know who

2147
01:49:35,200 --> 01:49:37,680
Speaker 8: they are, and they get to know that they are

2148
01:49:37,760 --> 01:49:41,880
Speaker 8: people who will make sandwiches, you know, because that's the thing,

2149
01:49:42,360 --> 01:49:45,160
Speaker 8: and they will risk everything to make sandwiches. They will

2150
01:49:45,240 --> 01:49:49,600
Speaker 8: risk everything to follow ice vehicles and honk it. Like

2151
01:49:49,960 --> 01:49:53,639
Speaker 8: imagine following a murderer down the street, going this man's

2152
01:49:53,640 --> 01:49:56,559
Speaker 8: a murderer. Man right here shoots people.

2153
01:49:56,800 --> 01:49:58,639
Speaker 9: Well, not just that, right, this person has the power

2154
01:49:58,680 --> 01:50:00,280
Speaker 9: to kill me and not face constant.

2155
01:50:00,479 --> 01:50:03,719
Speaker 8: Yeah, that's what they're shouting at people. Yeah, and everyone

2156
01:50:03,760 --> 01:50:06,840
Speaker 8: is shouting at that them. Yeah, yeah, and it works.

2157
01:50:07,160 --> 01:50:11,080
Speaker 9: Yeah, and it's people who you wouldn't expect the people

2158
01:50:11,120 --> 01:50:13,960
Speaker 9: you would expect, both together alongside each other.

2159
01:50:14,880 --> 01:50:15,120
Speaker 8: Yeah.

2160
01:50:15,200 --> 01:50:18,479
Speaker 9: I think a lot about how, like how much things

2161
01:50:18,479 --> 01:50:21,120
Speaker 9: have changed in this country in a year. Lots of

2162
01:50:21,160 --> 01:50:25,800
Speaker 9: it's bad, right, But like, abolish ice was a pretty

2163
01:50:25,880 --> 01:50:29,320
Speaker 9: niche position in twenty twenty. Let me tell you you

2164
01:50:29,320 --> 01:50:32,320
Speaker 9: didn't really hear it, right, Abolish ice is a compromise

2165
01:50:32,439 --> 01:50:34,479
Speaker 9: position now as the centrist position.

2166
01:50:34,560 --> 01:50:38,240
Speaker 8: Yeah, that is reform ice center right.

2167
01:50:38,600 --> 01:50:41,920
Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, I think reform ice is in some parts

2168
01:50:41,920 --> 01:50:44,639
Speaker 9: of the Republican body, right, Abolish ice is pretty much

2169
01:50:44,640 --> 01:50:45,360
Speaker 9: in between the two.

2170
01:50:45,439 --> 01:50:47,920
Speaker 8: Yeah. The political parties haven't caught up to this fact.

2171
01:50:48,479 --> 01:50:51,479
Speaker 9: Yeah, but they'd never do. They always take longer than

2172
01:50:51,520 --> 01:50:54,000
Speaker 9: everyone else. But let me tell you, there was you know,

2173
01:50:54,200 --> 01:50:57,080
Speaker 9: what would Ronald Reagan guy do? When you've lost? What

2174
01:50:57,120 --> 01:51:00,360
Speaker 9: would Ronald Reagan guy do? You're in fucking trouble? Yeah,

2175
01:51:00,560 --> 01:51:01,559
Speaker 9: total this country.

2176
01:51:01,680 --> 01:51:04,200
Speaker 8: Yeah, and I love how it's like we talked to

2177
01:51:04,200 --> 01:51:06,479
Speaker 8: a lot of people with a lot of different political ideas.

2178
01:51:06,720 --> 01:51:11,880
Speaker 8: Most people didn't have this is my political ideology and expressed. Yeah,

2179
01:51:12,080 --> 01:51:15,400
Speaker 8: but like you know, people are like just blunt, like, well,

2180
01:51:15,960 --> 01:51:18,000
Speaker 8: it would be better if the politicians were doing it,

2181
01:51:18,520 --> 01:51:19,120
Speaker 8: and they're not.

2182
01:51:20,000 --> 01:51:22,200
Speaker 9: Yeah, it's this lady who Again the lady said, oh,

2183
01:51:22,200 --> 01:51:22,960
Speaker 9: there's a local cops.

2184
01:51:22,960 --> 01:51:24,400
Speaker 8: You don't have to worry about them. Yeah.

2185
01:51:24,560 --> 01:51:27,200
Speaker 9: A couple of days later it turned out, but she

2186
01:51:27,720 --> 01:51:30,200
Speaker 9: was like, it would be great about politicians are with us,

2187
01:51:30,240 --> 01:51:32,000
Speaker 9: but they're not, So we're gonna do it ourselves.

2188
01:51:32,200 --> 01:51:33,719
Speaker 8: Yeah, Like that's all you need.

2189
01:51:34,040 --> 01:51:36,960
Speaker 9: The lady's done more anarchism than your your average internet

2190
01:51:36,960 --> 01:51:39,679
Speaker 9: anarchist who Zoosh's out there fed posting every day. Yeah

2191
01:51:39,800 --> 01:51:42,519
Speaker 9: all right, Yeah, that's that's really all you need.

2192
01:51:42,680 --> 01:51:45,080
Speaker 8: Yeah, well we're gonna take one more ad break.

2193
01:51:45,280 --> 01:51:47,440
Speaker 9: That's all you really need is advertisements.

2194
01:51:47,760 --> 01:51:59,760
Speaker 16: And it goes a little something like this, and we're

2195
01:51:59,760 --> 01:52:02,320
Speaker 16: about I feel.

2196
01:52:02,320 --> 01:52:05,040
Speaker 8: Warmed in my belly by those advertisements.

2197
01:52:05,240 --> 01:52:08,559
Speaker 9: Yeah hopefully you buy something that you don't need.

2198
01:52:08,840 --> 01:52:10,840
Speaker 8: Yeah, I hopefully you skip past them.

2199
01:52:10,840 --> 01:52:13,639
Speaker 9: But yeah, you know they double tap the old headphone button.

2200
01:52:13,640 --> 01:52:14,920
Speaker 9: It normally goes twenty seconds.

2201
01:52:14,960 --> 01:52:17,120
Speaker 8: See the problem is that I like, I don't usually

2202
01:52:17,160 --> 01:52:19,840
Speaker 8: I listen to a lot of podcasts, and I don't

2203
01:52:19,880 --> 01:52:25,800
Speaker 8: have cooler zone media because I have Android. Yeah, so yeah,

2204
01:52:25,920 --> 01:52:28,680
Speaker 8: I know, so the ads come home.

2205
01:52:28,800 --> 01:52:30,960
Speaker 9: Remember if you tag I write, okay, if you have

2206
01:52:31,000 --> 01:52:32,639
Speaker 9: any issues regarding the yeah.

2207
01:52:32,960 --> 01:52:36,439
Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, that'll that will definitely work. Yeah. And so

2208
01:52:36,640 --> 01:52:38,160
Speaker 8: sometimes when I'm like, because I listen to a lot

2209
01:52:38,160 --> 01:52:42,040
Speaker 8: of podcasts while I'm like doing like woodworking or like yeah, yeah,

2210
01:52:42,120 --> 01:52:44,320
Speaker 8: doing some of my hands. Yeah, and so I like,

2211
01:52:44,360 --> 01:52:47,040
Speaker 8: I'm like, I don't want to put down the saw

2212
01:52:47,160 --> 01:52:48,839
Speaker 8: in order to yeah, press the button.

2213
01:52:49,760 --> 01:52:52,599
Speaker 9: So I do it with my with my left earl

2214
01:52:52,880 --> 01:52:58,719
Speaker 9: against my shoulder. That's how I skip them. Yeah, because

2215
01:52:58,720 --> 01:52:59,920
Speaker 9: I don't have cooler zone media.

2216
01:53:00,680 --> 01:53:02,519
Speaker 8: Yeah, but maybe you do.

2217
01:53:02,800 --> 01:53:05,760
Speaker 9: Which if you only a diversion about shit, it doesn't

2218
01:53:05,800 --> 01:53:06,120
Speaker 9: bother you.

2219
01:53:06,680 --> 01:53:10,479
Speaker 8: Lucky, Lucky. We will have a lot more reporting. This

2220
01:53:10,520 --> 01:53:12,160
Speaker 8: isn't the end of the episode, but we'll have a

2221
01:53:12,160 --> 01:53:16,840
Speaker 8: lot more reporting about Minneapolis and the structures that people

2222
01:53:16,840 --> 01:53:21,000
Speaker 8: are building, and Minneapolis and Saint Paul and the outlying areas.

2223
01:53:21,000 --> 01:53:23,200
Speaker 8: Someone kind of correctly checked me on the fact that

2224
01:53:23,200 --> 01:53:26,760
Speaker 8: I keep saying Minneapolis, it's just spend my day and

2225
01:53:26,800 --> 01:53:29,320
Speaker 8: things are different, but things are different blocked by block,

2226
01:53:29,920 --> 01:53:31,920
Speaker 8: but a lot of that we really want to kind

2227
01:53:31,920 --> 01:53:33,559
Speaker 8: of do, right, and we're going to write scripted but

2228
01:53:33,600 --> 01:53:37,640
Speaker 8: we're just really kind of in it right now and

2229
01:53:38,000 --> 01:53:39,640
Speaker 8: really want to talk about this. And what part of

2230
01:53:39,680 --> 01:53:41,160
Speaker 8: the reason we want to talk about this so soon

2231
01:53:41,800 --> 01:53:44,920
Speaker 8: is because things happen really fast, and just that everyone

2232
01:53:44,960 --> 01:53:48,720
Speaker 8: we've talked to has told us that they they want

2233
01:53:48,760 --> 01:53:51,439
Speaker 8: people to know, you know, the horrors are getting out

2234
01:53:51,520 --> 01:53:53,719
Speaker 8: on some level, which is good. It is actually good

2235
01:53:53,800 --> 01:53:56,640
Speaker 8: that people are learning all these horrible things. But a

2236
01:53:56,640 --> 01:53:59,800
Speaker 8: lot of the scale of the resistance isn't getting out

2237
01:53:59,800 --> 01:54:03,439
Speaker 8: and afficacy of the resistance as in getting out, and

2238
01:54:03,920 --> 01:54:06,720
Speaker 8: people want people to know because they want people to

2239
01:54:06,760 --> 01:54:07,840
Speaker 8: know that they can do it too.

2240
01:54:08,479 --> 01:54:12,360
Speaker 9: Yeah, Like, I so someone had like like a shocking

2241
01:54:12,400 --> 01:54:15,280
Speaker 9: these someone had a stupid opinion on the internet. Someone

2242
01:54:15,439 --> 01:54:17,599
Speaker 9: had said that, like talking about this makes it dangerous

2243
01:54:17,600 --> 01:54:18,200
Speaker 9: to these people.

2244
01:54:18,840 --> 01:54:21,960
Speaker 8: No, first of all, I think, I mean, there are

2245
01:54:22,000 --> 01:54:25,280
Speaker 8: things that we don't know, that we shouldn't we wouldn't say.

2246
01:54:25,080 --> 01:54:27,000
Speaker 9: But like sure, there are things that yeah, yeah, there

2247
01:54:27,000 --> 01:54:29,240
Speaker 9: are things that we wouldn't ask about or that people

2248
01:54:29,280 --> 01:54:31,439
Speaker 9: wouldn't give us interviews about if you thought they were dangerous.

2249
01:54:31,479 --> 01:54:32,000
Speaker 8: Right, But like.

2250
01:54:32,560 --> 01:54:36,200
Speaker 9: What makes it safe is that everyone is doing it, right.

2251
01:54:36,280 --> 01:54:39,400
Speaker 9: What makes us safe is that there are more of

2252
01:54:39,480 --> 01:54:44,400
Speaker 9: us and what people asked us to do with share

2253
01:54:44,440 --> 01:54:47,840
Speaker 9: this because they are safe for ifew do it too. Yeah, right,

2254
01:54:48,000 --> 01:54:51,880
Speaker 9: there are hens of millions of people who are just

2255
01:54:51,920 --> 01:54:54,280
Speaker 9: as outraged as that older lady that we met on

2256
01:54:54,320 --> 01:54:59,320
Speaker 9: the first day. And what keeps that lady safe and

2257
01:54:59,440 --> 01:55:02,440
Speaker 9: your neighbor safe and her neighbors safe, and people who

2258
01:55:02,520 --> 01:55:06,040
Speaker 9: you've never met safe and yourself? Yeah, and yourself is

2259
01:55:06,080 --> 01:55:06,960
Speaker 9: you doing it too?

2260
01:55:07,080 --> 01:55:07,200
Speaker 7: Right?

2261
01:55:07,280 --> 01:55:11,320
Speaker 9: Like if it stops here, if you can't grab migrants

2262
01:55:11,320 --> 01:55:13,920
Speaker 9: off the street here, then you can't grab dissidence off

2263
01:55:13,920 --> 01:55:16,240
Speaker 9: the street somewhere else, right, And.

2264
01:55:16,160 --> 01:55:20,760
Speaker 8: Like you know, we've seen all over graffiti and you know,

2265
01:55:20,920 --> 01:55:24,800
Speaker 8: we saw a huge piece of graffiti at the ice

2266
01:55:24,840 --> 01:55:25,360
Speaker 8: building base.

2267
01:55:25,640 --> 01:55:27,720
Speaker 9: I read it into the mic, Actually it was my

2268
01:55:27,760 --> 01:55:28,520
Speaker 9: mic was working.

2269
01:55:29,240 --> 01:55:31,480
Speaker 17: First we came to the undocumented, and I said nothing

2270
01:55:31,520 --> 01:55:34,800
Speaker 17: because I wasn't undocumented. Then they came for the Somalis,

2271
01:55:35,240 --> 01:55:38,000
Speaker 17: and I said nothing because I was not Somali. Then

2272
01:55:38,040 --> 01:55:40,440
Speaker 17: they came for the activists, and I said nothing for

2273
01:55:40,600 --> 01:55:41,800
Speaker 17: I was not an activist.

2274
01:55:42,240 --> 01:55:43,080
Speaker 9: Then they came for me.

2275
01:55:46,880 --> 01:55:50,120
Speaker 8: I am so grateful that we live in a generation

2276
01:55:50,240 --> 01:55:51,200
Speaker 8: that has read that poem.

2277
01:55:51,920 --> 01:55:54,400
Speaker 9: Yeah, you know, and seemingly taken it to heart.

2278
01:55:54,600 --> 01:55:56,680
Speaker 8: Yeah, and more people have than I thought, and I

2279
01:55:56,720 --> 01:55:59,480
Speaker 8: think I think all the time about solidarity. It was

2280
01:55:59,520 --> 01:56:03,800
Speaker 8: shocked in this and you know, obviously the moment that

2281
01:56:03,880 --> 01:56:05,720
Speaker 8: makes me cry on the most regular basis is of

2282
01:56:05,760 --> 01:56:07,520
Speaker 8: course the charge of the row here him, when the

2283
01:56:07,600 --> 01:56:11,240
Speaker 8: riders of Rohan ride to Gondor to face the anyway,

2284
01:56:11,720 --> 01:56:14,360
Speaker 8: even though Gondor wasn't there for them. Where was Gondor?

2285
01:56:14,520 --> 01:56:17,640
Speaker 8: But part of the reason that I love solidarity so

2286
01:56:17,720 --> 01:56:19,680
Speaker 8: much is because, like I keep joking that I'm going

2287
01:56:19,720 --> 01:56:23,960
Speaker 8: to write the Misanthropic Introverts Guide to Socialism m because

2288
01:56:24,000 --> 01:56:28,400
Speaker 8: like I misanthropic introvert at that heart, right, I also

2289
01:56:28,480 --> 01:56:31,080
Speaker 8: love people, right, Yeah, and I most just I love

2290
01:56:31,160 --> 01:56:36,560
Speaker 8: most people over there. Yeah. And I grew up not

2291
01:56:36,720 --> 01:56:40,240
Speaker 8: proud to say, pretty self interested, right, And I was

2292
01:56:40,320 --> 01:56:44,200
Speaker 8: like very lost in my own head and kind of selfish.

2293
01:56:44,280 --> 01:56:48,640
Speaker 8: And and I very quickly esponed as meeting anarchists and

2294
01:56:48,680 --> 01:56:53,280
Speaker 8: meeting people who believed in responsibility and freedom was like, oh,

2295
01:56:54,120 --> 01:56:57,880
Speaker 8: I am safer and more free and more able to

2296
01:56:57,960 --> 01:57:01,560
Speaker 8: express my full self if I am part of a

2297
01:57:01,560 --> 01:57:02,760
Speaker 8: community of solidarity.

2298
01:57:03,120 --> 01:57:03,440
Speaker 10: Yeah.

2299
01:57:03,480 --> 01:57:08,080
Speaker 8: And so even though in the immediate moment it is

2300
01:57:08,240 --> 01:57:11,920
Speaker 8: more dangerous. Like there's the old joke about like you

2301
01:57:11,920 --> 01:57:13,680
Speaker 8: don't have to be faster than the bearer, you just

2302
01:57:13,720 --> 01:57:16,120
Speaker 8: have to be faster than your friend. Yeah. That is

2303
01:57:16,160 --> 01:57:17,960
Speaker 8: the single worst idea in the world.

2304
01:57:18,440 --> 01:57:20,400
Speaker 9: Yeah, because then bands eating people.

2305
01:57:20,680 --> 01:57:23,720
Speaker 8: Right, So if there is a monster and you can

2306
01:57:23,760 --> 01:57:26,960
Speaker 8: outrun someone, so you think you're safe, you now have

2307
01:57:27,000 --> 01:57:28,680
Speaker 8: to be the fastest person. Yeah.

2308
01:57:28,760 --> 01:57:30,640
Speaker 9: Yeah, right, you're safe until you're not.

2309
01:57:31,000 --> 01:57:33,480
Speaker 8: To be part of a community that turns around and

2310
01:57:33,520 --> 01:57:37,760
Speaker 8: fights the monster might be more dangerous for yourself in

2311
01:57:37,760 --> 01:57:44,080
Speaker 8: the immediate sense. And being someone who stands up is that. Yeah,

2312
01:57:44,120 --> 01:57:47,160
Speaker 8: it is that saying like, well, even though in the

2313
01:57:47,360 --> 01:57:50,840
Speaker 8: short term it is more dangerous for me to stand up.

2314
01:57:51,960 --> 01:57:55,280
Speaker 8: By having been participated in a society where we stand

2315
01:57:55,360 --> 01:57:57,920
Speaker 8: up for each other, I am safer.

2316
01:57:58,200 --> 01:57:58,720
Speaker 18: Yeah.

2317
01:57:58,760 --> 01:58:01,200
Speaker 8: And so even if that means like my literal death,

2318
01:58:02,160 --> 01:58:05,360
Speaker 8: like I will have been safer, even if you get

2319
01:58:05,440 --> 01:58:10,520
Speaker 8: like weirdly utilitarian about it, yeah, and aggregate, you are safer. Yeah,

2320
01:58:10,720 --> 01:58:12,800
Speaker 8: and so is everyone else. And so it's not a

2321
01:58:12,880 --> 01:58:15,560
Speaker 8: it's not a charity, it's a it's a solidarity.

2322
01:58:15,640 --> 01:58:15,800
Speaker 13: Yeah.

2323
01:58:15,880 --> 01:58:17,960
Speaker 9: No, like solidarity is in a sense it's in your

2324
01:58:17,960 --> 01:58:19,720
Speaker 9: own self interest because we want to live in a

2325
01:58:19,760 --> 01:58:22,440
Speaker 9: world where people take care of each other, right, not

2326
01:58:22,560 --> 01:58:26,600
Speaker 9: just you know, like yeah, just in case we need

2327
01:58:26,640 --> 01:58:29,280
Speaker 9: to be taken care of. But because I often think

2328
01:58:29,320 --> 01:58:32,640
Speaker 9: about that, I think it's John Stuart mill Right asked,

2329
01:58:32,680 --> 01:58:34,320
Speaker 9: not for him, the bell tolls, the bell tolls for

2330
01:58:34,400 --> 01:58:37,880
Speaker 9: thee Like what he's saying there is not what's that

2331
01:58:37,960 --> 01:58:43,360
Speaker 9: bell ringing. What he's saying is I participate in humanity,

2332
01:58:43,400 --> 01:58:47,840
Speaker 9: and so when humanity is devalued in his case talking

2333
01:58:47,880 --> 01:58:52,000
Speaker 9: about bell or funery bell, right, when humanity is devalued,

2334
01:58:52,480 --> 01:58:54,120
Speaker 9: my humanity is devalued.

2335
01:58:54,400 --> 01:58:54,720
Speaker 8: Yeah.

2336
01:58:54,760 --> 01:58:57,760
Speaker 9: And therefore, in this case where the bell is ringing

2337
01:58:57,800 --> 01:59:00,560
Speaker 9: for me, I am a human and when they undermine

2338
01:59:00,560 --> 01:59:03,640
Speaker 9: our common humanity, therefore the undermine this thing that I have.

2339
01:59:04,480 --> 01:59:07,840
Speaker 9: And I won't let them do that because I participate

2340
01:59:07,880 --> 01:59:10,720
Speaker 9: in humanity. And so as it happens, there's a person

2341
01:59:10,720 --> 01:59:15,240
Speaker 9: who's been subjected to inhuman violence, and so I will

2342
01:59:15,240 --> 01:59:17,280
Speaker 9: stand up for humanity, and in doing so, I will

2343
01:59:17,320 --> 01:59:19,760
Speaker 9: stand up for making a humanity that will stand up

2344
01:59:19,760 --> 01:59:20,000
Speaker 9: for me.

2345
01:59:20,240 --> 01:59:22,080
Speaker 8: Yeah, And like I.

2346
01:59:22,080 --> 01:59:24,400
Speaker 9: Think about a lot because John McCain wrote it in

2347
01:59:24,440 --> 01:59:29,200
Speaker 9: an obituary for the last American, Yeah, Lincoln Brigade volunteer.

2348
01:59:29,840 --> 01:59:33,840
Speaker 9: And I don't agree with John McCain on anything really, right,

2349
01:59:34,200 --> 01:59:37,800
Speaker 9: but I do on that, And like I was thinking

2350
01:59:37,800 --> 01:59:39,840
Speaker 9: about that today when I saw what would Ronald Reagan do?

2351
01:59:39,960 --> 01:59:40,080
Speaker 10: Guy.

2352
01:59:40,160 --> 01:59:41,920
Speaker 8: Yeah, because Jean McKay was the man who believe something.

2353
01:59:41,960 --> 01:59:44,680
Speaker 8: He believed things I don't agree with. Yeah, a lot

2354
01:59:44,680 --> 01:59:45,760
Speaker 8: of racist shit. Yeah.

2355
01:59:46,120 --> 01:59:48,320
Speaker 9: John McCain clearly thought that the Lincoln Brigadiers were on

2356
01:59:48,360 --> 01:59:50,920
Speaker 9: the right side of history, right, right, And like Winston

2357
01:59:51,000 --> 01:59:55,600
Speaker 9: Churchill's nephew for in the International Brigades, right, folks with

2358
01:59:55,640 --> 01:59:57,280
Speaker 9: whom I share very little.

2359
01:59:57,000 --> 01:59:58,000
Speaker 8: In terms of politics.

2360
01:59:58,200 --> 02:00:01,640
Speaker 9: A lot of British upper class people fought in the

2361
02:00:01,680 --> 02:00:04,560
Speaker 9: International Brigades. Yeah, they probably weren't anarchists, but they were

2362
02:00:04,600 --> 02:00:07,120
Speaker 9: anti fascists. They were better anti fascists than the people

2363
02:00:07,120 --> 02:00:09,680
Speaker 9: who stayed at home. And yeah, you couldn't tweet in

2364
02:00:09,760 --> 02:00:12,480
Speaker 9: nineteen thirty six, but they would have been if they could. Yeah, right,

2365
02:00:12,960 --> 02:00:16,280
Speaker 9: because they were willing to put their bodies on the line. Yeah,

2366
02:00:16,320 --> 02:00:18,240
Speaker 9: and many of them died. Many of them are buried

2367
02:00:18,280 --> 02:00:21,440
Speaker 9: in Smain and Spanish people remember them fondly.

2368
02:00:21,600 --> 02:00:22,000
Speaker 8: Yeah, right.

2369
02:00:22,080 --> 02:00:26,280
Speaker 9: They have annual ceremonies to remember the sacrifice. They made

2370
02:00:26,320 --> 02:00:28,560
Speaker 9: before any of the people who are attending those ceremonies

2371
02:00:28,560 --> 02:00:33,320
Speaker 9: are alive. And if more people had said, yeah, I'll

2372
02:00:33,320 --> 02:00:36,160
Speaker 9: go right like the bells ringing for me. Yeah, I'm

2373
02:00:36,200 --> 02:00:38,240
Speaker 9: not going to stand for a world where this happens.

2374
02:00:38,440 --> 02:00:41,160
Speaker 9: I'm going to fight for World War it doesn't, then

2375
02:00:41,200 --> 02:00:43,440
Speaker 9: we might not have had the Holocaust, right, we might

2376
02:00:43,440 --> 02:00:45,000
Speaker 9: not have had the Second World War, It might not

2377
02:00:45,040 --> 02:00:46,080
Speaker 9: have had Stalingrad.

2378
02:00:46,240 --> 02:00:49,240
Speaker 8: And also all the people who found Stalingrad are the

2379
02:00:49,240 --> 02:00:51,400
Speaker 8: reasons that didn't get worse. Yeah yeah right, World War

2380
02:00:51,400 --> 02:00:53,840
Speaker 8: two could have been worse. Yeah yeah, yeah, it would

2381
02:00:53,840 --> 02:00:55,080
Speaker 8: have been worse if people.

2382
02:00:54,840 --> 02:00:57,880
Speaker 9: Hadn't fo yeah right, Yeah, we had staling gred, so

2383
02:00:58,000 --> 02:01:02,120
Speaker 9: the Holocaust wasn't. More so that in Europe doesn't speak Germany, right, Like,

2384
02:01:02,720 --> 02:01:04,880
Speaker 9: every single one of those people who stood up to

2385
02:01:04,880 --> 02:01:07,600
Speaker 9: stop that probably wished that they'd stood up earlier, And

2386
02:01:07,640 --> 02:01:09,600
Speaker 9: every single one of those people who stood up earlier

2387
02:01:09,680 --> 02:01:12,320
Speaker 9: probably wish the more people that joined them. I think

2388
02:01:12,360 --> 02:01:14,680
Speaker 9: about that a lot. It's not news to anyone who

2389
02:01:14,680 --> 02:01:17,080
Speaker 9: listened to this that I wrote my PhD underspandied civil warrant.

2390
02:01:17,080 --> 02:01:21,200
Speaker 8: Think about it every day. Yeah, if you wanted the

2391
02:01:21,240 --> 02:01:23,160
Speaker 8: non dramatic version of all this. You're listening to the

2392
02:01:23,200 --> 02:01:23,920
Speaker 8: Wrongs podcast?

2393
02:01:24,000 --> 02:01:27,840
Speaker 9: Yeah yeah, But I think a lot about like what

2394
02:01:27,920 --> 02:01:30,840
Speaker 9: we should learn from that, right? I translated a piece

2395
02:01:31,080 --> 02:01:34,400
Speaker 9: for a Zene Strangers in the Tangled will.

2396
02:01:34,440 --> 02:01:38,560
Speaker 8: Oh yeah, it's a publishing collective that I work with.

2397
02:01:38,720 --> 02:01:42,640
Speaker 9: And I translated a piece by a Belgian anarchist who's

2398
02:01:42,640 --> 02:01:46,680
Speaker 9: referred to as a constellation of acronyms. But Charles Riddle

2399
02:01:46,800 --> 02:01:49,840
Speaker 9: was his birth name. Louis Mercier Vega was his name

2400
02:01:49,920 --> 02:01:52,080
Speaker 9: he lived with for most of his life. And he

2401
02:01:52,160 --> 02:01:55,320
Speaker 9: wrote this piece called Refuting the Legend, where he talks

2402
02:01:55,360 --> 02:01:59,560
Speaker 9: about like what he feels that he owes the people

2403
02:01:59,600 --> 02:02:03,480
Speaker 9: who die, right, And I think about that lot, Like

2404
02:02:04,080 --> 02:02:05,600
Speaker 9: the thing that he comes up with is that he

2405
02:02:05,640 --> 02:02:07,280
Speaker 9: owes the people who died the truth so that we

2406
02:02:07,280 --> 02:02:09,960
Speaker 9: can learn from it and do better. And he shouldn't

2407
02:02:10,000 --> 02:02:11,880
Speaker 9: just make them into heroes. He should make them into

2408
02:02:11,880 --> 02:02:14,160
Speaker 9: real people with flaws, so that people can understand their

2409
02:02:14,160 --> 02:02:15,960
Speaker 9: flaws and they can know what we.

2410
02:02:15,880 --> 02:02:17,160
Speaker 8: Can do better. I think about that a lot.

2411
02:02:17,240 --> 02:02:19,840
Speaker 9: Right, so many people have gone before us, so many

2412
02:02:19,960 --> 02:02:24,000
Speaker 9: brave people have gone before us, and we owe it

2413
02:02:24,040 --> 02:02:27,920
Speaker 9: to them to learn right and I think we have.

2414
02:02:28,120 --> 02:02:29,800
Speaker 9: Like when I was thinking about this, when that older

2415
02:02:29,880 --> 02:02:32,120
Speaker 9: lady said to us, all, my father was in the

2416
02:02:32,120 --> 02:02:34,600
Speaker 9: Second World War, like, and I think about it again,

2417
02:02:34,680 --> 02:02:36,440
Speaker 9: I saw the poem today, Like we have to learn

2418
02:02:36,480 --> 02:02:39,520
Speaker 9: from that experience, right, and you'd have to stop it now,

2419
02:02:40,400 --> 02:02:40,880
Speaker 9: not when it.

2420
02:02:40,960 --> 02:02:43,160
Speaker 8: Comes for you. Yeah. Yeah. And the fact that we

2421
02:02:43,520 --> 02:02:46,640
Speaker 8: talked to multiple people, some of their families had survived

2422
02:02:46,680 --> 02:02:47,200
Speaker 8: the Holocaust.

2423
02:02:47,360 --> 02:02:49,880
Speaker 9: Yeah, the reason they were in America. In many cases

2424
02:02:50,520 --> 02:02:52,720
Speaker 9: grandparents had come here to feed the art court.

2425
02:02:53,000 --> 02:02:56,000
Speaker 8: Who were making comparisons to that. And You're like, they're

2426
02:02:56,040 --> 02:02:59,320
Speaker 8: not doing that lightly. And I feel like almost, you know,

2427
02:02:59,360 --> 02:03:01,520
Speaker 8: when we talk with the sort of grandiose things, I'm like,

2428
02:03:01,600 --> 02:03:03,600
Speaker 8: I almost feel like I'm like, oh, we're talking about

2429
02:03:03,600 --> 02:03:06,560
Speaker 8: people with whistles, Like yeah, but we're not. I mean

2430
02:03:06,600 --> 02:03:08,920
Speaker 8: we all we're talking about people with whistles. Let's hope

2431
02:03:08,920 --> 02:03:11,160
Speaker 8: it stops it whistles, right, And that is what is

2432
02:03:11,200 --> 02:03:14,600
Speaker 8: effective right now? And it like is you know, it's

2433
02:03:14,640 --> 02:03:17,800
Speaker 8: spreading something and it it's gonna be so interesting to

2434
02:03:17,840 --> 02:03:20,200
Speaker 8: see what comes of this. Everything will be changing, you know,

2435
02:03:20,480 --> 02:03:22,840
Speaker 8: there's no reason to specifically set up everything that you

2436
02:03:22,960 --> 02:03:25,280
Speaker 8: all do in whatever city or town you live in

2437
02:03:25,760 --> 02:03:28,200
Speaker 8: exactly the same as they do it here. But there's

2438
02:03:28,240 --> 02:03:31,400
Speaker 8: like so many things to learn from them, and more

2439
02:03:31,520 --> 02:03:34,240
Speaker 8: than anything else, the thing to learn from them is

2440
02:03:34,400 --> 02:03:38,080
Speaker 8: like you just show up. Yeah, it's not that every

2441
02:03:38,160 --> 02:03:41,160
Speaker 8: single person in the city has quit their job to

2442
02:03:41,200 --> 02:03:43,960
Speaker 8: do this full time, right, Obviously economies don't function like that.

2443
02:03:45,000 --> 02:03:47,640
Speaker 8: But you don't have to quit your job to walk

2444
02:03:47,680 --> 02:03:51,480
Speaker 8: outside your house when you hear someone yell help, which

2445
02:03:51,520 --> 02:03:54,760
Speaker 8: is what is happening with whistles and honking yeah right,

2446
02:03:55,120 --> 02:04:01,040
Speaker 8: and just spreading a culture of we take care of

2447
02:04:01,120 --> 02:04:05,200
Speaker 8: each other and neighborliness, right, and that is like, weirdly

2448
02:04:05,360 --> 02:04:09,400
Speaker 8: fundamentally it is an American cultural idea. We're just bad

2449
02:04:09,440 --> 02:04:11,920
Speaker 8: at it. We've kind of forgotten a lot of it. Yeah,

2450
02:04:12,160 --> 02:04:15,280
Speaker 8: you know, it's like because obviously isolation is a big

2451
02:04:15,320 --> 02:04:17,360
Speaker 8: part of American individualism is a big part of it.

2452
02:04:17,680 --> 02:04:21,240
Speaker 8: But like everyone's a little bit happy when they get

2453
02:04:21,280 --> 02:04:24,760
Speaker 8: to like, oh you need it, you need a lawnmower.

2454
02:04:24,520 --> 02:04:27,920
Speaker 9: Or yeah, when I get to fix my neighbor's truck. Yeah, yeah,

2455
02:04:27,920 --> 02:04:31,080
Speaker 9: I love that. Yeah, get out and give some moment

2456
02:04:31,080 --> 02:04:31,480
Speaker 9: a change.

2457
02:04:31,520 --> 02:04:33,400
Speaker 8: So and one of the things that we to to

2458
02:04:33,440 --> 02:04:35,840
Speaker 8: maybe kind of end on, and the thing that I

2459
02:04:35,920 --> 02:04:38,120
Speaker 8: want to end on. You know, we're asking people like

2460
02:04:38,200 --> 02:04:41,640
Speaker 8: what they wish other people knew, what other people could know.

2461
02:04:41,680 --> 02:04:43,240
Speaker 8: And there's a couple of things that people mentioned, and

2462
02:04:43,280 --> 02:04:45,800
Speaker 8: we'll write more about this and pump podcasts more about this.

2463
02:04:46,360 --> 02:04:49,440
Speaker 8: But one of the things that people mentioned is they

2464
02:04:49,480 --> 02:04:51,960
Speaker 8: wish they had started earlier about knowing their neighbors. M hm.

2465
02:04:52,880 --> 02:04:55,520
Speaker 8: Obviously it wasn't too late. It's the whole like like

2466
02:04:55,600 --> 02:04:57,560
Speaker 8: with any kind of preparedness, right, You're like, you wish

2467
02:04:57,640 --> 02:05:00,680
Speaker 8: you so heady, Yeah, but you know now is the

2468
02:05:00,800 --> 02:05:03,040
Speaker 8: best you know, yesterday is the best time, and today

2469
02:05:03,120 --> 02:05:05,600
Speaker 8: is the next best time. Yeah, right, And like just

2470
02:05:06,200 --> 02:05:08,800
Speaker 8: literally knowing them, not necessarily becoming their friends, like a

2471
02:05:08,840 --> 02:05:10,600
Speaker 8: lot of people are like no, I wasn't friends with them,

2472
02:05:10,640 --> 02:05:12,920
Speaker 8: I just sort of knew them, you know. And then

2473
02:05:13,000 --> 02:05:15,680
Speaker 8: also one of the other things that people just as

2474
02:05:15,720 --> 02:05:18,760
Speaker 8: another thing people mentioned that they wanted people to know

2475
02:05:19,880 --> 02:05:23,160
Speaker 8: is that when you build these networks, you need to

2476
02:05:23,280 --> 02:05:26,960
Speaker 8: build autonomy into them at every level. You need to

2477
02:05:27,080 --> 02:05:31,120
Speaker 8: build the idea that the person who is following ICE

2478
02:05:31,840 --> 02:05:33,520
Speaker 8: is at the end of the day in charge of

2479
02:05:33,600 --> 02:05:36,560
Speaker 8: how they do that. Like even if you know, you know,

2480
02:05:36,760 --> 02:05:39,360
Speaker 8: people are like, oh, Ice is over here. You can't

2481
02:05:39,400 --> 02:05:44,240
Speaker 8: say everyone go do this, you can someone can suggest that, yeah, right.

2482
02:05:44,760 --> 02:05:51,680
Speaker 8: But having built autonomy into these networks makes them so

2483
02:05:51,920 --> 02:05:55,120
Speaker 8: much stronger, and in an interesting way, partly because it

2484
02:05:55,880 --> 02:05:57,760
Speaker 8: makes them less predictable to Ice.

2485
02:05:58,000 --> 02:05:59,880
Speaker 9: Right, because you never know what I'm gonna what that

2486
02:06:00,000 --> 02:06:01,880
Speaker 9: comfortable when they're not comfortable.

2487
02:06:01,440 --> 02:06:06,400
Speaker 8: With Yeah, So like that is basically a diversity of

2488
02:06:06,480 --> 02:06:10,600
Speaker 8: tactics makes movements strong. If they don't know how we

2489
02:06:10,680 --> 02:06:13,680
Speaker 8: are going to behave they can't you know, and not

2490
02:06:13,840 --> 02:06:17,800
Speaker 8: just like if everyone's rowdy, no, like you're going to

2491
02:06:17,840 --> 02:06:20,880
Speaker 8: be real combination and when the rowdy and non rowdy

2492
02:06:20,880 --> 02:06:24,360
Speaker 8: support people support each other. Anyway, those are the kind

2493
02:06:24,360 --> 02:06:26,760
Speaker 8: of last thoughts I have before I actually sit down

2494
02:06:26,840 --> 02:06:29,400
Speaker 8: and look at all my notes and write something real.

2495
02:06:30,040 --> 02:06:34,680
Speaker 9: Yeah, I think for me, it's everyone here said that

2496
02:06:34,840 --> 02:06:37,000
Speaker 9: like that. It was funny when people were like, we

2497
02:06:37,080 --> 02:06:38,680
Speaker 9: were like, how did you start organizing? They were like,

2498
02:06:39,400 --> 02:06:41,880
Speaker 9: you know, last July we had a blog party and

2499
02:06:41,920 --> 02:06:45,040
Speaker 9: a pot luck. Yeah, and it just seemed to be

2500
02:06:45,280 --> 02:06:48,640
Speaker 9: just a thing until it became the foundation of this

2501
02:06:48,760 --> 02:06:49,640
Speaker 9: thing that exists now.

2502
02:06:49,800 --> 02:06:49,920
Speaker 8: Right.

2503
02:06:50,120 --> 02:06:52,160
Speaker 9: Yeah, if there's one thing you can do. It won't

2504
02:06:52,240 --> 02:06:54,200
Speaker 9: cost you any money, it will take you a little

2505
02:06:54,200 --> 02:06:56,600
Speaker 9: bit of time, and it will probably make your life better.

2506
02:06:57,120 --> 02:06:59,879
Speaker 9: It is go out on your block and meet your neighbors.

2507
02:07:00,040 --> 02:07:02,680
Speaker 9: And I know that can be hard for people. Yeah,

2508
02:07:03,040 --> 02:07:04,600
Speaker 9: I know it can be scary.

2509
02:07:04,960 --> 02:07:07,800
Speaker 8: But we're talking like trans motherfuckers who are doing this too.

2510
02:07:08,040 --> 02:07:11,240
Speaker 9: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, it's people who are who have

2511
02:07:11,680 --> 02:07:14,240
Speaker 9: more at stake than I do. Yeah right, Like I'm

2512
02:07:14,280 --> 02:07:18,080
Speaker 9: the cisgender white man for people listening, The best thing

2513
02:07:18,280 --> 02:07:20,280
Speaker 9: you can do is start to form community, and it

2514
02:07:20,360 --> 02:07:22,400
Speaker 9: could be in so many ways. One thing that like

2515
02:07:22,560 --> 02:07:25,760
Speaker 9: I really like to do is like I have, throughout

2516
02:07:25,800 --> 02:07:30,560
Speaker 9: my life developed certain skills and certain hobbies, and I

2517
02:07:30,800 --> 02:07:33,600
Speaker 9: love to share those with people. You know, if there

2518
02:07:33,680 --> 02:07:36,920
Speaker 9: is someone in my neighborhood they've got a bike outside,

2519
02:07:36,920 --> 02:07:38,520
Speaker 9: they're trying to fix a puncher, I'm going to go

2520
02:07:38,600 --> 02:07:41,200
Speaker 9: help them because I've done that ten thousand times.

2521
02:07:41,360 --> 02:07:42,120
Speaker 8: Yeah right.

2522
02:07:42,280 --> 02:07:44,240
Speaker 9: Whatever it is that is your thing that you like

2523
02:07:44,360 --> 02:07:46,360
Speaker 9: to talk about, that you're good at, that you know about,

2524
02:07:46,800 --> 02:07:48,520
Speaker 9: think of a way you could share that with people.

2525
02:07:48,840 --> 02:07:50,760
Speaker 9: Maybe you like to bake, maybe you like to knit,

2526
02:07:50,920 --> 02:07:53,520
Speaker 9: maybe whatever, it doesn't matter, It doesn't.

2527
02:07:53,360 --> 02:07:55,600
Speaker 8: Oh there's people with like free hats and scarves at

2528
02:07:55,640 --> 02:07:56,000
Speaker 8: these things.

2529
02:07:56,120 --> 02:07:58,240
Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you could just be the person who

2530
02:07:58,320 --> 02:08:01,440
Speaker 9: knits the scarves. That's your way to contribute. If that's

2531
02:08:01,440 --> 02:08:03,560
Speaker 9: your way to meet your neighbors, right, put on a

2532
02:08:03,640 --> 02:08:05,800
Speaker 9: knitting circle, to put on a baking thing. I like

2533
02:08:05,880 --> 02:08:08,360
Speaker 9: to grow plants, so I'm always growing plants, and I'm

2534
02:08:08,800 --> 02:08:11,200
Speaker 9: stoked when my neighbors stop buy and say, hey, I

2535
02:08:11,360 --> 02:08:13,840
Speaker 9: really like your bass or plant and I want to

2536
02:08:13,920 --> 02:08:15,920
Speaker 9: make which is how they pronounce it when they yes,

2537
02:08:16,000 --> 02:08:17,879
Speaker 9: they do, yeah, when they say to me, because otherwise

2538
02:08:17,880 --> 02:08:19,640
Speaker 9: I look at them and say, get out of my home,

2539
02:08:20,760 --> 02:08:22,720
Speaker 9: you know, and they want if they want to make something,

2540
02:08:23,440 --> 02:08:25,240
Speaker 9: I give them some, right, or if they say, hey,

2541
02:08:25,560 --> 02:08:27,200
Speaker 9: I just need a couple of tomatoes, and I noticed,

2542
02:08:27,240 --> 02:08:28,480
Speaker 9: of course I'm going to give them right.

2543
02:08:29,680 --> 02:08:30,400
Speaker 8: Whatever that is.

2544
02:08:30,840 --> 02:08:32,680
Speaker 9: Your neighbors away for a couple of weeks. Hey, do

2545
02:08:32,720 --> 02:08:34,280
Speaker 9: you want me to look after the house? Your car

2546
02:08:34,360 --> 02:08:36,600
Speaker 9: won't start? Let me jump it, right. I have one

2547
02:08:36,640 --> 02:08:39,160
Speaker 9: of those little jumper packs. I love to use a

2548
02:08:39,160 --> 02:08:40,040
Speaker 9: little jumper pack.

2549
02:08:40,200 --> 02:08:41,960
Speaker 8: Oh yeah. If you have a tool and someone needs

2550
02:08:42,040 --> 02:08:44,040
Speaker 8: the tool, having a multi tool on you is the

2551
02:08:44,120 --> 02:08:46,640
Speaker 8: best way to feel good. All the time because someone's like,

2552
02:08:46,840 --> 02:08:49,040
Speaker 8: oh I wish I had a rent or not I

2553
02:08:49,080 --> 02:08:51,240
Speaker 8: wish i'd yeah, yeah.

2554
02:08:51,120 --> 02:08:54,200
Speaker 9: And there you go, like Superman do those things now.

2555
02:08:54,240 --> 02:08:56,000
Speaker 9: I know we have Margaret and I both hop on

2556
02:08:56,080 --> 02:08:59,920
Speaker 9: about this, but like, this is how you build a

2557
02:09:00,080 --> 02:09:03,000
Speaker 9: better world. It starts on your block. It starts by

2558
02:09:03,040 --> 02:09:05,920
Speaker 9: building a better neighborhood, building a better street, building a

2559
02:09:05,960 --> 02:09:09,160
Speaker 9: better apartment complex. Lived in an apartment complex. It could

2560
02:09:09,160 --> 02:09:11,280
Speaker 9: be hard to see people in an apartment complexes because

2561
02:09:11,320 --> 02:09:13,080
Speaker 9: people sort of get in the lift and put the

2562
02:09:13,240 --> 02:09:15,400
Speaker 9: look at the floor, put a little sign up, just

2563
02:09:15,480 --> 02:09:17,320
Speaker 9: be like, hey, we're going to have a pot. Look, Hey,

2564
02:09:18,160 --> 02:09:20,600
Speaker 9: the little bit in between the pavement and the road's

2565
02:09:20,640 --> 02:09:22,400
Speaker 9: kind of fucked up. Anyone else want to help me

2566
02:09:22,480 --> 02:09:24,240
Speaker 9: put some plants in it this springtime?

2567
02:09:24,800 --> 02:09:24,960
Speaker 8: You know?

2568
02:09:25,240 --> 02:09:29,800
Speaker 9: Yeah, whatever it is that is your thing, start using

2569
02:09:29,920 --> 02:09:32,200
Speaker 9: that to build community, because it's community that's going to

2570
02:09:32,240 --> 02:09:32,760
Speaker 9: get you through this.

2571
02:09:33,320 --> 02:09:35,400
Speaker 8: Yeah. And it's like, you know, I don't always like

2572
02:09:35,480 --> 02:09:37,640
Speaker 8: targeting to people, but I just when I'm in a

2573
02:09:37,680 --> 02:09:40,880
Speaker 8: new place, I'm just like, hey, I just moved here,

2574
02:09:41,680 --> 02:09:44,040
Speaker 8: nice to meet you. I'm so and so. Do you

2575
02:09:44,160 --> 02:09:46,400
Speaker 8: need my phone number? And I can do the kind

2576
02:09:46,440 --> 02:09:48,320
Speaker 8: of like, you know, I want you to my phone

2577
02:09:48,360 --> 02:09:49,720
Speaker 8: number because I want you to call me instead of

2578
02:09:49,720 --> 02:09:53,600
Speaker 8: the cops. I'm being too loud, right, But like you're

2579
02:09:53,640 --> 02:09:55,080
Speaker 8: going to make a little bit of a faux pas

2580
02:09:55,360 --> 02:09:58,880
Speaker 8: in certain communities by being like, hey, we should know

2581
02:09:58,960 --> 02:10:01,680
Speaker 8: each other. Yeah, but usually just to hey we should

2582
02:10:01,800 --> 02:10:04,480
Speaker 8: know each other isn't actually offending as many people as

2583
02:10:04,520 --> 02:10:04,760
Speaker 8: you think.

2584
02:10:04,920 --> 02:10:06,800
Speaker 9: Yeah, Like I know a lot of people don't live

2585
02:10:06,840 --> 02:10:08,640
Speaker 9: in cities too, or some people were like I grew

2586
02:10:08,720 --> 02:10:12,120
Speaker 9: up very very rural. Yeah, but actually like we had

2587
02:10:12,200 --> 02:10:14,720
Speaker 9: to know each other because like there wasn't really anyone

2588
02:10:14,800 --> 02:10:15,520
Speaker 9: else you could go.

2589
02:10:15,640 --> 02:10:17,560
Speaker 8: Oh yeah in my mind, I'm like when I live rural,

2590
02:10:17,600 --> 02:10:19,400
Speaker 8: and I'm like, that's how you have to know people.

2591
02:10:19,600 --> 02:10:23,520
Speaker 9: Like yeah, like I remember someone's horse fell in wealthy

2592
02:10:23,680 --> 02:10:25,760
Speaker 9: be bad a swimming pool, Like, yeah, I lifted the

2593
02:10:25,800 --> 02:10:26,720
Speaker 9: horse out by myself.

2594
02:10:26,960 --> 02:10:29,120
Speaker 8: Oh yeah, my neighbors pick out the pools walking out

2595
02:10:29,160 --> 02:10:30,720
Speaker 8: of my property. Yeah, it's not as big of a

2596
02:10:30,760 --> 02:10:33,400
Speaker 8: deal as lowers falling in, but just constantly my neighbors

2597
02:10:33,480 --> 02:10:34,880
Speaker 8: like my pig got out again?

2598
02:10:35,600 --> 02:10:38,520
Speaker 9: Yeah, like like were there are a million reasons why

2599
02:10:38,800 --> 02:10:41,040
Speaker 9: in rural areas or I'd hope you were you would

2600
02:10:41,120 --> 02:10:44,040
Speaker 9: know people anyway. But again, like, hey, I'm so and

2601
02:10:44,120 --> 02:10:46,480
Speaker 9: so I just moved here. I just wanted to say, Hi,

2602
02:10:47,040 --> 02:10:50,080
Speaker 9: maybe you bake something whatever, take something over. Most people

2603
02:10:50,120 --> 02:10:51,040
Speaker 9: aren't going to be mad at you.

2604
02:10:51,360 --> 02:10:57,040
Speaker 8: Yeah. Well that's kind of our preliminary stuff and we're

2605
02:10:57,080 --> 02:10:58,560
Speaker 8: going to be doing so much more with it, but

2606
02:10:58,640 --> 02:11:00,560
Speaker 8: we just kind of wanted to get some ideas out

2607
02:11:00,760 --> 02:11:03,280
Speaker 8: while we were both in the same place in this

2608
02:11:04,000 --> 02:11:10,880
Speaker 8: shockingly beautiful city. Yeah, around people who are so fucking inspiring, Like, yeah,

2609
02:11:11,920 --> 02:11:16,160
Speaker 8: everyone we talk to is so inspiring. And even if

2610
02:11:16,240 --> 02:11:20,120
Speaker 8: the like the tragedy of it, you know, I feel

2611
02:11:20,240 --> 02:11:23,120
Speaker 8: so weird being like, here's the hopeful stuff. When I'm

2612
02:11:23,200 --> 02:11:29,240
Speaker 8: like we're describing it very horrible land of kidnappers, We're like,

2613
02:11:29,560 --> 02:11:32,000
Speaker 8: it's just like literally kidnappers have descended upon the city

2614
02:11:32,040 --> 02:11:37,200
Speaker 8: and like to kidnap people that will fund the kidnappings. Yeah,

2615
02:11:37,520 --> 02:11:39,760
Speaker 8: for cool people did cool stuff. That's the core idea

2616
02:11:39,840 --> 02:11:41,600
Speaker 8: of the show is that when people, you know, it's

2617
02:11:41,600 --> 02:11:44,000
Speaker 8: the intro it's when people are trying to do bad things.

2618
02:11:44,040 --> 02:11:47,120
Speaker 8: There's people trying to do good things. And so that's why, uh,

2619
02:11:48,160 --> 02:11:50,920
Speaker 8: taking a break from history content talk about something that's

2620
02:11:50,960 --> 02:11:54,640
Speaker 8: just fucking happening right now. It is cool people doing

2621
02:11:54,720 --> 02:11:58,720
Speaker 8: cool stuff up here, and or maybe more than cool

2622
02:11:58,720 --> 02:11:59,680
Speaker 8: because it's freezing.

2623
02:12:00,120 --> 02:12:02,120
Speaker 9: Yeah, freezing people doing cool stuff.

2624
02:12:02,280 --> 02:12:05,960
Speaker 8: Yeah. Feel free to workshop at home, Yeah, a better

2625
02:12:06,000 --> 02:12:09,280
Speaker 8: way to do it. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know.

2626
02:12:09,400 --> 02:12:11,560
Speaker 9: I'm coming back from a place more hopeful than I left.

2627
02:12:11,640 --> 02:12:15,760
Speaker 9: I know, that's my thing that I do. But like,

2628
02:12:16,560 --> 02:12:18,760
Speaker 9: I really believe that in the darkest times we can

2629
02:12:18,800 --> 02:12:21,680
Speaker 9: build beautiful things. And I don't believe that any less

2630
02:12:21,720 --> 02:12:24,440
Speaker 9: after being here. Yeah, that's great thing about being a goth,

2631
02:12:25,880 --> 02:12:26,920
Speaker 9: beauty and the dark stuff.

2632
02:12:26,960 --> 02:12:30,320
Speaker 8: That's like. Anyway, we will talk to you all, just

2633
02:12:30,560 --> 02:12:33,800
Speaker 8: for me next week and for James, who knows, probably

2634
02:12:33,920 --> 02:12:37,200
Speaker 8: freaking tomorrow. Yeah, a couple of days here. Yeah yeah,

2635
02:12:38,200 --> 02:12:42,040
Speaker 8: yeah that my job is hard anyway. Yeah, good luck

2636
02:12:42,120 --> 02:12:45,720
Speaker 8: with everyone, and take care of your neighbors and fuck ice.

2637
02:12:46,320 --> 02:12:46,560
Speaker 9: Yeah.

2638
02:12:50,800 --> 02:12:52,880
Speaker 8: Thanks everyone for listening to all of this. And if

2639
02:12:52,960 --> 02:12:54,920
Speaker 8: at the end of this you are thinking that you

2640
02:12:54,960 --> 02:12:56,720
Speaker 8: would like to help some of the people who are

2641
02:12:56,800 --> 02:12:59,280
Speaker 8: on the ground, we asked people that we trusted on

2642
02:12:59,400 --> 02:13:03,280
Speaker 8: the ground to provide us with links to different fundraisers

2643
02:13:03,320 --> 02:13:06,400
Speaker 8: and basically, you know, I never share a fundraiser unless

2644
02:13:06,400 --> 02:13:08,160
Speaker 8: I can support it with my whole heart, and I

2645
02:13:08,200 --> 02:13:10,880
Speaker 8: would support it with my own wallet. The links themselves

2646
02:13:10,880 --> 02:13:12,920
Speaker 8: are going to be in the show notes, but there's

2647
02:13:12,920 --> 02:13:16,560
Speaker 8: a couple different ones. There's rent Support for Neighbors and Phillips,

2648
02:13:16,600 --> 02:13:19,080
Speaker 8: which is a neighborhood rent support for neighbors in Central

2649
02:13:19,600 --> 02:13:23,920
Speaker 8: Rent support for neighbors, and Powderhorn Supplies for political art making,

2650
02:13:24,480 --> 02:13:29,000
Speaker 8: Protective gear for legal observers, diapers and menstrual supplies is

2651
02:13:29,040 --> 02:13:33,400
Speaker 8: another fundraiser. Abolish ice shirts, including the shirt I am

2652
02:13:33,480 --> 02:13:37,320
Speaker 8: wearing right now as I record this, North Star Frontline

2653
02:13:37,360 --> 02:13:41,560
Speaker 8: Street Medics and the Twin Cities swol A tariot Ale

2654
02:13:41,680 --> 02:13:44,440
Speaker 8: fund and they'll be links to both Venmo and cash

2655
02:13:44,440 --> 02:13:47,400
Speaker 8: app for that one. Anyway, thank you to everyone, and

2656
02:13:47,520 --> 02:13:48,280
Speaker 8: take care of each other.

2657
02:14:00,840 --> 02:14:03,440
Speaker 14: Hello, and welcome back to It could happen here. I'm

2658
02:14:03,480 --> 02:14:06,120
Speaker 14: your occasional host, Molly Conger, and today we're going to

2659
02:14:06,200 --> 02:14:11,640
Speaker 14: be talking about something that is happening here, doxing Nazis. Specifically,

2660
02:14:11,680 --> 02:14:14,320
Speaker 14: I'm talking to Christmasias about his new book, To Catch

2661
02:14:14,320 --> 02:14:18,000
Speaker 14: a Fascist, The Fight to Expose the Radical Right. Chris,

2662
02:14:18,040 --> 02:14:19,040
Speaker 14: thanks for coming on today.

2663
02:14:19,320 --> 02:14:21,120
Speaker 7: Oh my god, Molly, it's such a pleasure to be here.

2664
02:14:21,160 --> 02:14:21,440
Speaker 7: Thank you.

2665
02:14:22,160 --> 02:14:24,320
Speaker 14: I'm so excited to talk about this book. You sent

2666
02:14:24,360 --> 02:14:26,640
Speaker 14: me a copy of it recently. I don't think I

2667
02:14:26,720 --> 02:14:29,240
Speaker 14: remembered until I was reading it and I talked to

2668
02:14:29,320 --> 02:14:30,360
Speaker 14: you while you were writing it.

2669
02:14:30,840 --> 02:14:33,280
Speaker 7: Yes, yes, yes you did. Yeah, yeah, you're one of

2670
02:14:33,320 --> 02:14:36,400
Speaker 7: the many, many people I talked to, and you are

2671
02:14:36,560 --> 02:14:39,560
Speaker 7: quoted in the book. In fact, I can't remember if

2672
02:14:39,560 --> 02:14:40,840
Speaker 7: you told it to me or if I cite it

2673
02:14:40,880 --> 02:14:45,960
Speaker 7: from somewhere else, But you once compared the research that

2674
02:14:46,080 --> 02:14:53,280
Speaker 7: goes into doxing unmasking nazis to basically investigating your ex's

2675
02:14:53,440 --> 02:14:57,520
Speaker 7: Instagram account, which I thought was an amazing comparison, because

2676
02:14:57,520 --> 02:14:59,920
Speaker 7: you're basically saying, like, this type of work is excess

2677
02:15:00,240 --> 02:15:01,760
Speaker 7: if you've done that type of slew thing.

2678
02:15:01,960 --> 02:15:04,560
Speaker 14: Which is not something I'm admitting to doing. I got

2679
02:15:04,640 --> 02:15:06,760
Speaker 14: brazy about my exes. I'm just saying it is something

2680
02:15:07,120 --> 02:15:09,480
Speaker 14: many women are very good at, exactly, Yes, and they

2681
02:15:09,480 --> 02:15:11,040
Speaker 14: don't realize it's a transferable skill.

2682
02:15:12,600 --> 02:15:13,280
Speaker 7: Yeah, exactly.

2683
02:15:13,760 --> 02:15:15,720
Speaker 14: But for those who don't know, christ mrher Mathias has

2684
02:15:15,720 --> 02:15:19,840
Speaker 14: been covering the far right for more than a decade, right, yeah, yeah,

2685
02:15:20,120 --> 02:15:21,920
Speaker 14: you were with Huffington Post for a long time, and

2686
02:15:22,000 --> 02:15:23,520
Speaker 14: you've been independent for a couple of years.

2687
02:15:24,160 --> 02:15:24,360
Speaker 8: Yeah.

2688
02:15:24,480 --> 02:15:27,200
Speaker 7: So I was at huff Post for like almost fourteen years,

2689
02:15:27,240 --> 02:15:29,840
Speaker 7: and about ten of those I know, it's wild, and

2690
02:15:30,000 --> 02:15:32,480
Speaker 7: ten of those years I was covering the far right,

2691
02:15:32,560 --> 02:15:37,160
Speaker 7: which is how I ended up in Charlottesville in twenty

2692
02:15:37,240 --> 02:15:40,160
Speaker 7: seventeen for Unite the Right rally, which is something Mollie

2693
02:15:40,160 --> 02:15:43,520
Speaker 7: and I have talked a lot about before. And Yeah,

2694
02:15:43,560 --> 02:15:46,160
Speaker 7: after I got back from Charlottesville, my editor at the

2695
02:15:46,240 --> 02:15:49,280
Speaker 7: time was like, this is your beat now covering the

2696
02:15:49,320 --> 02:15:51,200
Speaker 7: far right. So I was kind of like among this

2697
02:15:51,400 --> 02:15:55,680
Speaker 7: like initial crew of like digital media journalists who suddenly

2698
02:15:55,720 --> 02:15:58,440
Speaker 7: found themselves on the like the right wing extremism beat.

2699
02:15:59,080 --> 02:16:02,760
Speaker 7: And pretty quickly, you know, I realized while I was

2700
02:16:02,840 --> 02:16:06,760
Speaker 7: trying to unmask people in the far right that there

2701
02:16:06,800 --> 02:16:10,000
Speaker 7: were already people doing that work and they were anti

2702
02:16:10,040 --> 02:16:11,200
Speaker 7: fascist activists.

2703
02:16:11,600 --> 02:16:14,000
Speaker 14: Yeah, and so to prepare for today, I listened to

2704
02:16:14,400 --> 02:16:16,480
Speaker 14: a couple of interviews you've done about the book so far.

2705
02:16:16,600 --> 02:16:18,880
Speaker 14: It comes out first week of February.

2706
02:16:18,840 --> 02:16:21,080
Speaker 7: February third. Yeah, We're we're close. Yeah.

2707
02:16:21,160 --> 02:16:21,320
Speaker 8: Yeah.

2708
02:16:21,640 --> 02:16:23,600
Speaker 14: I was listening to those interviews and I was thinking about,

2709
02:16:24,360 --> 02:16:26,520
Speaker 14: you know, this is a different audience like you don't

2710
02:16:26,520 --> 02:16:28,400
Speaker 14: need to explain to people who listened to it could

2711
02:16:28,400 --> 02:16:30,440
Speaker 14: happen here when Antifa is or.

2712
02:16:30,560 --> 02:16:31,480
Speaker 8: What docxing is.

2713
02:16:31,920 --> 02:16:37,600
Speaker 14: Yes, but I think the book very delicately and unapologetically

2714
02:16:37,959 --> 02:16:40,840
Speaker 14: explains those things to people who might be afraid of them.

2715
02:16:41,280 --> 02:16:43,880
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean that was the entire intent of the book,

2716
02:16:43,879 --> 02:16:46,560
Speaker 7: and I'm so glad you picked up on that. You know,

2717
02:16:46,840 --> 02:16:49,600
Speaker 7: I think I kind of imagined writing this book for

2718
02:16:49,800 --> 02:16:53,760
Speaker 7: my parents, for like kind of you know, boomer liberals,

2719
02:16:53,840 --> 02:16:57,000
Speaker 7: if you will, or centrists and other people just I

2720
02:16:57,080 --> 02:17:01,640
Speaker 7: think that have a lot of misapprehension about Antifa understandably,

2721
02:17:02,080 --> 02:17:03,680
Speaker 7: And you know, the kind of the goal of the

2722
02:17:03,720 --> 02:17:07,840
Speaker 7: book was to to demystify what antifa is, explain it

2723
02:17:07,920 --> 02:17:12,959
Speaker 7: to a wider audience, and to make kind of more

2724
02:17:13,080 --> 02:17:18,359
Speaker 7: radical politics that Antifa represents more palatable to a wider audience.

2725
02:17:19,120 --> 02:17:21,360
Speaker 7: And the way I tried to do that was to

2726
02:17:21,520 --> 02:17:23,680
Speaker 7: make the book a bit of a thriller so that

2727
02:17:23,840 --> 02:17:27,840
Speaker 7: was accessible, and make it into like a spy narrative.

2728
02:17:28,560 --> 02:17:32,760
Speaker 7: And I'm hoping that the very kind of average reader

2729
02:17:33,640 --> 02:17:35,800
Speaker 7: will be able to dive into this and come out

2730
02:17:35,879 --> 02:17:40,880
Speaker 7: understanding more radical leftist politics that maybe wasn't accessible to

2731
02:17:40,959 --> 02:17:41,360
Speaker 7: them before.

2732
02:17:41,760 --> 02:17:43,960
Speaker 14: That's such a hard needle to threat because like I

2733
02:17:44,040 --> 02:17:46,360
Speaker 14: could give this book to my dad, right right, But

2734
02:17:46,480 --> 02:17:50,040
Speaker 14: I also enjoyed reading it. Yay, good for the listener.

2735
02:17:50,320 --> 02:17:51,760
Speaker 14: You should go out and get this. It's not just

2736
02:17:51,800 --> 02:17:54,160
Speaker 14: for your dads. You will like it to the cold

2737
02:17:54,200 --> 02:17:57,640
Speaker 14: open right, like the introductory chapter, start sort of in

2738
02:17:57,800 --> 02:17:59,800
Speaker 14: media res with your framework of the book.

2739
02:17:59,879 --> 02:17:59,959
Speaker 8: Right.

2740
02:18:00,120 --> 02:18:04,120
Speaker 14: This Vincent Washington, this infiltrator inside Patriot Front. And the

2741
02:18:04,200 --> 02:18:07,600
Speaker 14: thing is I know about Vincent Washington. I read the

2742
02:18:07,760 --> 02:18:11,240
Speaker 14: leaks that Vincent was responsible for. I was actually the

2743
02:18:11,280 --> 02:18:14,760
Speaker 14: one who told Thomas Rousseau in person about the leak.

2744
02:18:14,920 --> 02:18:16,360
Speaker 8: What I didn't know that book?

2745
02:18:16,520 --> 02:18:20,360
Speaker 14: Oh yes, for the listener, Vincent Washington is not a

2746
02:18:20,440 --> 02:18:22,440
Speaker 14: real person. Cully is a real person, but that's not

2747
02:18:22,480 --> 02:18:25,080
Speaker 14: his real name. Yes, right, So within Patriot Front, they

2748
02:18:25,080 --> 02:18:27,440
Speaker 14: all get a pseudonym and then their last name is

2749
02:18:27,520 --> 02:18:30,320
Speaker 14: like their state. So Vincent Washington was a man whose

2750
02:18:30,360 --> 02:18:33,840
Speaker 14: name is not Vincent, who might be from Washington, and

2751
02:18:33,920 --> 02:18:36,400
Speaker 14: he infiltrated Patriot Front and he leaked all of their

2752
02:18:36,520 --> 02:18:40,280
Speaker 14: rocket chats. And the day that leak was published, it

2753
02:18:40,440 --> 02:18:43,720
Speaker 14: was January twenty first, twenty twenty two. Yes, it was

2754
02:18:43,760 --> 02:18:46,160
Speaker 14: the day of the March for Life. Yes, So Patriot

2755
02:18:46,200 --> 02:18:49,920
Speaker 14: Front was in Washington, DC, and I had a suspicion

2756
02:18:50,400 --> 02:18:52,720
Speaker 14: that Patriot Front would be there. They don't announce that

2757
02:18:52,760 --> 02:18:53,840
Speaker 14: the kind of thing ahead of time, but I was

2758
02:18:53,879 --> 02:18:55,400
Speaker 14: pretty sure they were going to be there. So I

2759
02:18:55,480 --> 02:18:57,600
Speaker 14: went to Washington, d C. And we were standing outside

2760
02:18:57,640 --> 02:19:00,760
Speaker 14: the National Archives and Thomas Rousseau had a little bullhorn.

2761
02:19:00,800 --> 02:19:02,360
Speaker 14: He had like twenty or thirty guys and the little

2762
02:19:02,400 --> 02:19:05,640
Speaker 14: matching fits, and they were so tickled with themselves. They

2763
02:19:05,680 --> 02:19:07,960
Speaker 14: were so tickled. People were just falling all over themselves

2764
02:19:08,000 --> 02:19:11,120
Speaker 14: because these like scary Nazis were on the street. And

2765
02:19:11,280 --> 02:19:13,560
Speaker 14: I actually I have a video. I'll embed it in

2766
02:19:13,640 --> 02:19:14,279
Speaker 14: the final.

2767
02:19:14,160 --> 02:19:17,800
Speaker 7: Oh my god, Molly, Hey guys, your rocket.

2768
02:19:17,560 --> 02:19:23,000
Speaker 14: Chat just got leads on DIA secrets. Unicorn Ryan just

2769
02:19:23,160 --> 02:19:27,600
Speaker 14: dropped your rocket Chat everything, all your dms, all your

2770
02:19:27,720 --> 02:19:33,720
Speaker 14: dms Matadeia, the video we're just gonna make fun of you.

2771
02:19:33,879 --> 02:19:34,680
Speaker 2: The videos that you.

2772
02:19:34,760 --> 02:19:38,080
Speaker 14: Send your network leaders, those all have Metadeia and Unicorn

2773
02:19:38,160 --> 02:19:39,279
Speaker 14: Ryan is posting.

2774
02:19:39,000 --> 02:19:39,680
Speaker 18: Them right now.

2775
02:19:40,879 --> 02:19:43,400
Speaker 7: Holy shit, Molly, how did I not ask you about

2776
02:19:43,400 --> 02:19:44,039
Speaker 7: this for the book?

2777
02:19:44,080 --> 02:19:45,840
Speaker 8: I could have put this in there. Oh, my god.

2778
02:19:46,680 --> 02:19:48,520
Speaker 14: It was incredible because you know, Thomas were so later

2779
02:19:48,680 --> 02:19:51,640
Speaker 14: was like, oh, it's like not big. He looked scared.

2780
02:19:51,800 --> 02:19:53,360
Speaker 7: Oh my god, he looked scared.

2781
02:19:53,520 --> 02:19:54,480
Speaker 8: Yeah, it's like I know.

2782
02:19:54,600 --> 02:19:58,120
Speaker 14: About Vincent, but seeing the story from his side of

2783
02:19:58,200 --> 02:20:02,080
Speaker 14: things was so different. Like I use these leaks all

2784
02:20:02,120 --> 02:20:05,120
Speaker 14: the time, but I, you know, never get to know

2785
02:20:05,320 --> 02:20:06,200
Speaker 14: about the leaker.

2786
02:20:06,560 --> 02:20:10,520
Speaker 7: Oh my god. Yeah, that's incredible. Yeah. So again, this

2787
02:20:10,640 --> 02:20:12,400
Speaker 7: is kind of my goal for the book, was that

2788
02:20:13,080 --> 02:20:15,360
Speaker 7: these kind of anti fascist spies, and I feel like

2789
02:20:15,440 --> 02:20:18,840
Speaker 7: most Americans don't know that Antifa had so many spies

2790
02:20:18,879 --> 02:20:21,879
Speaker 7: over the last ten years that were infiltrating these groups.

2791
02:20:22,560 --> 02:20:26,680
Speaker 7: You know, they were the hidden hand behind thousands of

2792
02:20:26,920 --> 02:20:31,959
Speaker 7: news stories because they collected all of this invaluable intelligence,

2793
02:20:32,000 --> 02:20:35,680
Speaker 7: you know, hundreds and hundreds of gigabytes of private messages

2794
02:20:35,720 --> 02:20:38,560
Speaker 7: that these white supremacists were sending to each other, which

2795
02:20:38,600 --> 02:20:42,000
Speaker 7: then were posted on a database on Unicorn Riot, which

2796
02:20:42,240 --> 02:20:45,840
Speaker 7: you know, wonderful researchers like yourself and other people used

2797
02:20:46,080 --> 02:20:50,040
Speaker 7: to mine for clues and details that they could use

2798
02:20:50,200 --> 02:20:56,640
Speaker 7: to identify all of these previously sseunonymous Nazis. So for example,

2799
02:20:56,720 --> 02:20:58,800
Speaker 7: you know, and I wish I could have seen the

2800
02:20:58,840 --> 02:21:00,879
Speaker 7: look on Thomas's face. I can't wait to see that video.

2801
02:21:01,400 --> 02:21:06,920
Speaker 7: But yeah, I mean, like they released I believe it

2802
02:21:07,000 --> 02:21:10,039
Speaker 7: was like four hundred gigabytes worth of rocket Chat messages

2803
02:21:10,400 --> 02:21:12,800
Speaker 7: and you know, videos and photos and stuff.

2804
02:21:13,000 --> 02:21:14,840
Speaker 14: With metadata still attached to them.

2805
02:21:14,879 --> 02:21:17,640
Speaker 7: Exactly with metadata still attached to them, which we'll get

2806
02:21:17,680 --> 02:21:18,840
Speaker 7: to in a second. By the way, there's a good

2807
02:21:18,840 --> 02:21:23,000
Speaker 7: story about the metadata, but you know, ultimately that data

2808
02:21:23,120 --> 02:21:27,320
Speaker 7: would contribute to doc saying unmasking I think about eighty

2809
02:21:27,400 --> 02:21:31,680
Speaker 7: members of Patriot Front, which is just remarkable, and I think,

2810
02:21:32,320 --> 02:21:33,680
Speaker 7: you know, part of the story I was trying to

2811
02:21:33,720 --> 02:21:37,160
Speaker 7: tell was that these anonymous anti fascists who are doing

2812
02:21:37,240 --> 02:21:39,840
Speaker 7: this work, you know, anonymously, like they're not doing it

2813
02:21:40,040 --> 02:21:43,440
Speaker 7: for acclaim or glory. They're doing it because they see

2814
02:21:43,480 --> 02:21:48,240
Speaker 7: it as a form of community self defense. And you know,

2815
02:21:48,320 --> 02:21:51,520
Speaker 7: what they were doing, you know, I think outstripped the

2816
02:21:51,640 --> 02:21:56,000
Speaker 7: efforts of major media news organizations, you know, academic institutions,

2817
02:21:56,000 --> 02:21:59,880
Speaker 7: civil rights organizations, oh no doubt, law enforcement definitely, like

2818
02:22:00,120 --> 02:22:04,640
Speaker 7: they were doing more work to destabilize and destroy far

2819
02:22:04,760 --> 02:22:07,480
Speaker 7: right groups. Then I would argue, really anyone else.

2820
02:22:07,959 --> 02:22:10,280
Speaker 14: And then this subsequent work that builds off of that

2821
02:22:10,480 --> 02:22:13,879
Speaker 14: by civil rights groups filing these like Large Klan Act lawsuits.

2822
02:22:14,240 --> 02:22:17,280
Speaker 14: Those lawsuits don't exist without these leaks. Sins v. Kessler

2823
02:22:17,320 --> 02:22:19,880
Speaker 14: doesn't exist without these leaks. The three lawsuits against Patriot

2824
02:22:19,920 --> 02:22:21,279
Speaker 14: Front don't exist without.

2825
02:22:21,040 --> 02:22:22,640
Speaker 7: These leaks, Yes, exactly.

2826
02:22:23,080 --> 02:22:24,800
Speaker 14: And I've been thinking a lot about this this week,

2827
02:22:25,240 --> 02:22:27,960
Speaker 14: right because it was the anniversary of Richard Spencer getting

2828
02:22:27,959 --> 02:22:29,240
Speaker 14: punched in the face five years ago.

2829
02:22:29,320 --> 02:22:30,720
Speaker 7: Happy anniversary, Happy.

2830
02:22:30,520 --> 02:22:32,840
Speaker 14: Anniversary to those who celebrate. And that was a beautiful moment.

2831
02:22:32,920 --> 02:22:34,840
Speaker 14: And I think we can all agree that it's so

2832
02:22:34,959 --> 02:22:37,000
Speaker 14: funny to watch Richard Spencer get punched in the face.

2833
02:22:37,720 --> 02:22:40,040
Speaker 14: But every year you see people say and that's what

2834
02:22:40,080 --> 02:22:41,840
Speaker 14: stopped him, and he was never heard from again and

2835
02:22:41,920 --> 02:22:43,120
Speaker 14: he shut up forever after that.

2836
02:22:43,640 --> 02:22:46,000
Speaker 7: Right, that's not true. That's not true at all.

2837
02:22:46,440 --> 02:22:48,200
Speaker 14: Like I love, I love the guy that punched him

2838
02:22:48,200 --> 02:22:50,680
Speaker 14: in the face, but that didn't end it, Yes exactly.

2839
02:22:50,800 --> 02:22:51,680
Speaker 14: An infiltrator did.

2840
02:22:51,800 --> 02:22:56,400
Speaker 7: An infiltrator did, And I think again, you know, kind

2841
02:22:56,400 --> 02:22:58,840
Speaker 7: of the goal of the book is that most Antifa

2842
02:22:59,000 --> 02:23:03,200
Speaker 7: in the public imagination is most often associated with Nazi punching,

2843
02:23:03,400 --> 02:23:05,840
Speaker 7: and you know, for good reason, Like most people learned

2844
02:23:05,840 --> 02:23:09,520
Speaker 7: about Antifa in twenty seventeen from videos like the video

2845
02:23:09,560 --> 02:23:12,560
Speaker 7: of Richard Spencer getting punched. It's so interesting to look

2846
02:23:12,600 --> 02:23:15,960
Speaker 7: back and realize that no one in America knew what

2847
02:23:16,040 --> 02:23:19,119
Speaker 7: the fuck Antifa was before twenty seventeen, and then by

2848
02:23:19,160 --> 02:23:22,480
Speaker 7: the end of that year, everyone had heard that word

2849
02:23:22,560 --> 02:23:23,240
Speaker 7: or knew that word.

2850
02:23:23,360 --> 02:23:24,120
Speaker 14: It was the boogeyman.

2851
02:23:24,480 --> 02:23:26,040
Speaker 7: Yeah, it was the Boogeyman, and it was added to

2852
02:23:26,760 --> 02:23:30,840
Speaker 7: the Webster Dictionary. Oxford Dictionary shortlisted it for word of

2853
02:23:30,879 --> 02:23:34,080
Speaker 7: the Year. Like it's a remarkable climb for you know,

2854
02:23:34,400 --> 02:23:38,040
Speaker 7: a piece of language, a word. But the like viral

2855
02:23:38,120 --> 02:23:42,240
Speaker 7: videos that catapulted that word into the lexicon kind of

2856
02:23:42,280 --> 02:23:44,760
Speaker 7: obscured the bulk of the work that Antifa was doing,

2857
02:23:45,280 --> 02:23:49,880
Speaker 7: which was espionage and intelligence gathering and kind of like

2858
02:23:49,959 --> 02:23:55,280
Speaker 7: the creation of this remarkable underground informal intelligence agency that

2859
02:23:55,680 --> 02:23:59,560
Speaker 7: like just completely fucked up so many fascist groups, and like,

2860
02:24:00,240 --> 02:24:03,560
Speaker 7: you know, at the end of twenty seventeen, Spencer famously

2861
02:24:03,760 --> 02:24:07,320
Speaker 7: said Antifa is winning, and he was referring not only

2862
02:24:07,360 --> 02:24:10,440
Speaker 7: to getting punched everywhere he went, but to these very

2863
02:24:10,480 --> 02:24:14,840
Speaker 7: efforts to identify all of his followers, who knew that

2864
02:24:15,080 --> 02:24:17,920
Speaker 7: if their Nazism was public, they wouldn't be able to

2865
02:24:18,280 --> 02:24:20,120
Speaker 7: operate in public life, they wouldn't be able to hold

2866
02:24:20,120 --> 02:24:22,199
Speaker 7: down a job, and so on and so forth.

2867
02:24:22,400 --> 02:24:25,040
Speaker 14: Because I guess both the Nazi punching and the Nazi

2868
02:24:25,160 --> 02:24:28,840
Speaker 14: docsing they are different means to a similar end, which

2869
02:24:28,879 --> 02:24:32,200
Speaker 14: is to enact a consequence, right, so that if you're

2870
02:24:32,200 --> 02:24:34,160
Speaker 14: going to be a Nazi in public, there's going to

2871
02:24:34,160 --> 02:24:36,720
Speaker 14: be a fucking consequence, whether that means you get decked

2872
02:24:36,760 --> 02:24:39,720
Speaker 14: in the jaw, or it means all of your neighbors

2873
02:24:40,200 --> 02:24:42,480
Speaker 14: know what you said online, your mom knows what you

2874
02:24:42,560 --> 02:24:44,480
Speaker 14: said online, like people know who you are.

2875
02:24:45,200 --> 02:24:47,720
Speaker 7: Yes, exactly the way I always describe it is the

2876
02:24:47,800 --> 02:24:50,800
Speaker 7: digital equivalent of ripping the white hood off of a klansman.

2877
02:24:51,240 --> 02:24:54,879
Speaker 7: You know, back in the eighties and nineties, anti racist activists,

2878
02:24:55,040 --> 02:24:58,360
Speaker 7: like with groups like Anti Racist Action, you know, would

2879
02:24:58,480 --> 02:25:02,160
Speaker 7: post flyers in namehoods that said meet your local Nazi, right,

2880
02:25:02,480 --> 02:25:06,000
Speaker 7: And what they were doing was not only warning the

2881
02:25:06,080 --> 02:25:09,080
Speaker 7: community that that guy down the block is liable to

2882
02:25:09,120 --> 02:25:12,000
Speaker 7: commit violence against people you know and love, but like

2883
02:25:12,120 --> 02:25:14,360
Speaker 7: you were getting at, they were creating a social cost

2884
02:25:14,520 --> 02:25:18,720
Speaker 7: for being a fascist. They're basically leveraging an existing societal

2885
02:25:18,800 --> 02:25:25,039
Speaker 7: taboo against explicit white supremacy and fascism to ensure a consequence.

2886
02:25:25,160 --> 02:25:28,480
Speaker 7: It basically says, it tells people, if you're going to

2887
02:25:28,560 --> 02:25:30,880
Speaker 7: join one of these groups, we're going to name and

2888
02:25:30,959 --> 02:25:34,480
Speaker 7: shame you. You're going to lose your job, your girlfriend's

2889
02:25:34,520 --> 02:25:37,480
Speaker 7: going to dump you, you might lose your apartment, your family,

2890
02:25:37,840 --> 02:25:39,560
Speaker 7: you might not want to talk to you anymore, like

2891
02:25:39,640 --> 02:25:42,120
Speaker 7: you're going to be a pariah. And I think it

2892
02:25:42,360 --> 02:25:46,119
Speaker 7: was really effective. I mean, you know, obviously, the animating

2893
02:25:46,200 --> 02:25:48,959
Speaker 7: question of my book, of course, is what happens when

2894
02:25:49,040 --> 02:25:50,840
Speaker 7: that taboo starts to disappear?

2895
02:25:51,080 --> 02:25:52,320
Speaker 14: But it's not gone yet.

2896
02:25:52,560 --> 02:25:53,160
Speaker 7: It's not gone.

2897
02:25:53,320 --> 02:25:55,000
Speaker 14: Some of the other interviews I was looking at, people

2898
02:25:55,040 --> 02:25:57,600
Speaker 14: are saying, well, is there value in this anymore? Because

2899
02:25:58,040 --> 02:25:59,600
Speaker 14: you can work for the State Department and be a

2900
02:25:59,680 --> 02:26:01,840
Speaker 14: Nazi now right, you can do the White House social

2901
02:26:01,879 --> 02:26:03,840
Speaker 14: media being Nazien now like, is there still any value

2902
02:26:03,879 --> 02:26:05,880
Speaker 14: in this? And I think the answer is obviously yes.

2903
02:26:06,240 --> 02:26:06,440
Speaker 8: Yeah.

2904
02:26:06,560 --> 02:26:10,400
Speaker 14: They wouldn't wear masks if they didn't have to wear masks, yes, right,

2905
02:26:10,480 --> 02:26:12,560
Speaker 14: Like some of them aren't mask off quote unquote, but

2906
02:26:12,640 --> 02:26:16,080
Speaker 14: like not all of them. Patriot Front still marches in masks.

2907
02:26:16,200 --> 02:26:19,600
Speaker 14: Ice agents still abduct children in masks. They're covering their

2908
02:26:19,640 --> 02:26:21,199
Speaker 14: faces because they know what they're doing is wrong.

2909
02:26:21,560 --> 02:26:24,600
Speaker 7: Yes, exactly, And I think it's also as much of

2910
02:26:24,680 --> 02:26:26,880
Speaker 7: a mask off moment as we might be living in

2911
02:26:26,959 --> 02:26:29,800
Speaker 7: in some ways. You know, this act of research and

2912
02:26:29,879 --> 02:26:34,920
Speaker 7: identifying the threat is still so important because it's you know,

2913
02:26:35,280 --> 02:26:39,720
Speaker 7: preserving that societal taboo. It's still saying that that social

2914
02:26:39,800 --> 02:26:42,800
Speaker 7: cost is something we still want to preserve, and it

2915
02:26:42,959 --> 02:26:46,200
Speaker 7: is you know, I think very interesting that the anti

2916
02:26:46,280 --> 02:26:50,280
Speaker 7: fascist work now is kind of pivoting towards identifying ICE

2917
02:26:50,320 --> 02:26:54,960
Speaker 7: agents and MAGA, and the Trump administration is horrified of

2918
02:26:55,040 --> 02:26:58,840
Speaker 7: this tactic of identifying ICE agents, and for good reason,

2919
02:26:59,000 --> 02:27:01,760
Speaker 7: because you know the story I try to tell my book,

2920
02:27:01,920 --> 02:27:05,280
Speaker 7: like this tactic played a really big part in destroying

2921
02:27:05,320 --> 02:27:09,240
Speaker 7: fascist groups. They know that it could destroy their ethnic

2922
02:27:09,320 --> 02:27:12,400
Speaker 7: cleansing projects. And when you look at the polls like

2923
02:27:13,200 --> 02:27:16,720
Speaker 7: since reine a good, the favorability for ICE is just plummeted,

2924
02:27:17,160 --> 02:27:21,640
Speaker 7: and the support for slogans like abolish ICE have skyrocketed.

2925
02:27:22,120 --> 02:27:26,840
Speaker 7: So like that societal taboo against kind of white supremacismsm right,

2926
02:27:27,200 --> 02:27:29,959
Speaker 7: that's being displayed by ICE is definitely still there.

2927
02:27:30,480 --> 02:27:32,360
Speaker 14: And you ground this sort of in the history too.

2928
02:27:32,440 --> 02:27:34,040
Speaker 14: In the book, in the chapter about sort of the

2929
02:27:34,200 --> 02:27:38,320
Speaker 14: history of unmasking, whether that's with digital docsing or you know,

2930
02:27:38,680 --> 02:27:41,440
Speaker 14: identifying members of the Klan, there was still a social

2931
02:27:41,560 --> 02:27:44,840
Speaker 14: cost of being identified as a Klansman in the nineteen twenties. Yeah,

2932
02:27:45,280 --> 02:27:47,480
Speaker 14: like there was there was no social taboo against being

2933
02:27:47,600 --> 02:27:49,920
Speaker 14: racist in the twenties, but there was a social cost

2934
02:27:50,000 --> 02:27:52,000
Speaker 14: to being identified as a clansman. And I think we're

2935
02:27:52,160 --> 02:27:54,880
Speaker 14: we find ourselves in the same unfortunate place.

2936
02:27:55,120 --> 02:27:56,800
Speaker 7: Yeah, totally, I mean, and honestly, that was one of

2937
02:27:56,840 --> 02:27:59,800
Speaker 7: my favorite parts about researching the book, was diving into

2938
02:27:59,840 --> 02:28:05,520
Speaker 7: the efforts to unmask the clans. Obviously there were efforts

2939
02:28:05,560 --> 02:28:07,840
Speaker 7: to unmask the First Clan, but you know, one of

2940
02:28:07,879 --> 02:28:11,400
Speaker 7: my favorite stories about unmasking the Second Clan took place

2941
02:28:11,400 --> 02:28:15,960
Speaker 7: in Buffalo, New York, and there was actually a very

2942
02:28:16,520 --> 02:28:20,199
Speaker 7: large Clan chapter in Buffalo. You know, the Second Clan

2943
02:28:20,959 --> 02:28:22,720
Speaker 7: wasn't confined to the South.

2944
02:28:22,800 --> 02:28:23,480
Speaker 8: It was everywhere.

2945
02:28:23,600 --> 02:28:26,200
Speaker 7: It was in the Northeast and the midwest, right, and

2946
02:28:26,720 --> 02:28:30,480
Speaker 7: it was animated not only by anti black racism and

2947
02:28:30,560 --> 02:28:35,320
Speaker 7: anti Semitism, but also by anti Catholicism. They were really

2948
02:28:35,840 --> 02:28:41,040
Speaker 7: angry at this new wave of immigrants from Eastern and

2949
02:28:41,120 --> 02:28:41,800
Speaker 7: southern Europe.

2950
02:28:41,879 --> 02:28:44,160
Speaker 14: They didn't allow Catholics in until the seventies. They had

2951
02:28:44,200 --> 02:28:46,200
Speaker 14: to have a big summit about it. Yes, yeah, yes,

2952
02:28:46,360 --> 02:28:47,800
Speaker 14: when they decided that Catholics are white.

2953
02:28:47,879 --> 02:28:50,360
Speaker 7: Yes exactly. And this is I mean, it's just it's

2954
02:28:50,400 --> 02:28:53,200
Speaker 7: so much to unpack because like obviously, like my family's Catholic,

2955
02:28:54,000 --> 02:28:57,240
Speaker 7: and I enjoy all the privilege of being white. But

2956
02:28:57,440 --> 02:29:00,760
Speaker 7: like you know, back then, like you know, so Catholics

2957
02:29:00,840 --> 02:29:02,440
Speaker 7: were you know this other.

2958
02:29:02,480 --> 02:29:04,760
Speaker 14: You had a dual loyalty to this mysterious king.

2959
02:29:05,120 --> 02:29:08,680
Speaker 7: Yes, exactly. So at any rate, the Klan in Buffalo

2960
02:29:09,080 --> 02:29:11,880
Speaker 7: is really big, and you know, in one night they

2961
02:29:11,920 --> 02:29:15,320
Speaker 7: even have this elaborate cross burning ceremony where eight hundred

2962
02:29:15,440 --> 02:29:19,400
Speaker 7: people take the oath for the Klan. The mayor of Buffalo, though,

2963
02:29:19,520 --> 02:29:24,640
Speaker 7: is Catholic and forms a coalition with you know, Black

2964
02:29:24,680 --> 02:29:29,480
Speaker 7: Buffalonians and Jewish Buffalonians, and the mayor ends up enlisting

2965
02:29:29,520 --> 02:29:33,000
Speaker 7: a spy to go undercover into the Klan. One night,

2966
02:29:33,360 --> 02:29:39,000
Speaker 7: the clan's secret headquarters in Buffalo are ransacked, broken into

2967
02:29:39,080 --> 02:29:44,560
Speaker 7: in ransacked, and suddenly this list of the clan's membership

2968
02:29:44,720 --> 02:29:47,120
Speaker 7: ends up in the hands of the mayor. The mayor

2969
02:29:47,280 --> 02:29:50,840
Speaker 7: has makes some like deft denials of any involvement, but

2970
02:29:51,480 --> 02:29:55,240
Speaker 7: says that he's going to post the lists downtown. The

2971
02:29:55,360 --> 02:29:58,840
Speaker 7: list is posted downtown, so many people show up to

2972
02:29:58,959 --> 02:30:01,240
Speaker 7: look at the list to see who among their neighbors

2973
02:30:01,920 --> 02:30:03,880
Speaker 7: is in the clan that they end up having to

2974
02:30:04,040 --> 02:30:06,320
Speaker 7: move the list I believe, to a warehouse to fit

2975
02:30:06,360 --> 02:30:08,640
Speaker 7: all the people so that they could form a line.

2976
02:30:09,200 --> 02:30:12,400
Speaker 7: And then in the ensuing weeks and months, clan owned

2977
02:30:12,480 --> 02:30:17,280
Speaker 7: businesses are boycotted and vandalized. Clansmen turn up to their

2978
02:30:17,360 --> 02:30:22,119
Speaker 7: jobs only to learn that they've been fired, and before

2979
02:30:22,480 --> 02:30:26,760
Speaker 7: long the klan just completely falls apart. And interestingly enough,

2980
02:30:27,480 --> 02:30:29,920
Speaker 7: Clan headquarters down in Georgia heard about what was happening

2981
02:30:29,959 --> 02:30:33,360
Speaker 7: in Buffalo and was really alarmed by it, so they

2982
02:30:33,480 --> 02:30:35,880
Speaker 7: send an investigator to Buffalo to figure out who the

2983
02:30:35,920 --> 02:30:40,160
Speaker 7: spy is. They figure out who the spy is, and

2984
02:30:40,280 --> 02:30:43,360
Speaker 7: they get in a shootout and they both die Jesus Christ,

2985
02:30:43,520 --> 02:30:47,640
Speaker 7: which like underscores you know the stakes of this work sometime.

2986
02:30:47,720 --> 02:30:50,400
Speaker 14: Right, which is why you know the Richard Spencer Puncher

2987
02:30:50,560 --> 02:30:53,280
Speaker 14: and the infiltrators. They do their best to stay anonymous

2988
02:30:53,320 --> 02:30:58,440
Speaker 14: because the Steaks are lethal. Yeah, right, they will kill

2989
02:30:58,480 --> 02:31:02,560
Speaker 14: you back. Yes, organizations can't survive sunshine, and they're so

2990
02:31:02,720 --> 02:31:05,440
Speaker 14: aware of that that. Yeah, people have been killed for this.

2991
02:31:05,879 --> 02:31:18,800
Speaker 7: Yeah, absolutely, You and I have both faced our share

2992
02:31:18,879 --> 02:31:23,680
Speaker 7: of harassment and stuff. But there's older tales of you know,

2993
02:31:23,800 --> 02:31:27,880
Speaker 7: anti racist action. Back in the nineties, two of its members,

2994
02:31:27,959 --> 02:31:32,760
Speaker 7: you know, anti racist skinheads, were in Nevada, lured out

2995
02:31:32,800 --> 02:31:37,720
Speaker 7: to the desert by Nazis under false pretenses and executed

2996
02:31:38,040 --> 02:31:38,640
Speaker 7: in the desert.

2997
02:31:38,800 --> 02:31:40,800
Speaker 14: It is fourth of July weekend, right, Yes, we still

2998
02:31:40,840 --> 02:31:42,800
Speaker 14: honor them on the fourth of July exactly.

2999
02:31:42,879 --> 02:31:45,080
Speaker 7: Yeah. Their names are escaping me right.

3000
02:31:45,000 --> 02:31:47,640
Speaker 14: Now, Spitting Newborn and Daniel Shrsey.

3001
02:31:48,280 --> 02:31:52,840
Speaker 7: Yes, And there is a fantastic Orlando Weekly feature article

3002
02:31:53,000 --> 02:31:56,360
Speaker 7: about I Believe Spit that I think is one of

3003
02:31:56,440 --> 02:31:58,920
Speaker 7: the best pieces I've read in a long time that

3004
02:31:59,040 --> 02:32:00,480
Speaker 7: maybe we can put in the notes I think people

3005
02:32:00,520 --> 02:32:03,400
Speaker 7: would really enjoy. Absolutely, and you know, and then there's

3006
02:32:03,440 --> 02:32:05,480
Speaker 7: more recent examples of that too. You know, over the

3007
02:32:05,560 --> 02:32:09,720
Speaker 7: last five years, there was three members of the base,

3008
02:32:09,800 --> 02:32:12,720
Speaker 7: which is like a neo Nazi organization. Obviously, I love

3009
02:32:12,800 --> 02:32:13,720
Speaker 7: that your listeners know all.

3010
02:32:13,720 --> 02:32:17,000
Speaker 14: This, by the way, no what they could use the recap, Yeah, yeah.

3011
02:32:17,160 --> 02:32:19,520
Speaker 7: But know who these groups are at least, but they

3012
02:32:19,560 --> 02:32:23,120
Speaker 7: were arrested for conspiring to kidnap and murder to anti

3013
02:32:23,160 --> 02:32:24,720
Speaker 7: fascist activists in Georgia.

3014
02:32:25,120 --> 02:32:27,400
Speaker 14: It was a couple living in a kind of remote

3015
02:32:27,400 --> 02:32:30,360
Speaker 14: area and they had a very detailed plan to burn

3016
02:32:30,440 --> 02:32:33,160
Speaker 14: down their home and like kill them in their beds

3017
02:32:33,200 --> 02:32:34,000
Speaker 14: and kill their pets.

3018
02:32:34,040 --> 02:32:35,480
Speaker 8: And I mean it was Yeah.

3019
02:32:35,640 --> 02:32:39,800
Speaker 14: If not for the FBI agent who was their friend, yeah,

3020
02:32:39,800 --> 02:32:40,800
Speaker 14: that couple would have been killed.

3021
02:32:41,360 --> 02:32:41,560
Speaker 17: Yeah.

3022
02:32:41,720 --> 02:32:43,760
Speaker 7: No, it's it's really wild to consider the.

3023
02:32:43,840 --> 02:32:46,280
Speaker 14: FBI agent was friends with the Nazis. I should clarify

3024
02:32:46,640 --> 02:32:49,320
Speaker 14: there is almost always an FBI agent who is friends

3025
02:32:49,600 --> 02:32:52,640
Speaker 14: with the Nazi. Yes, And that's that's the important thing, right,

3026
02:32:52,640 --> 02:32:55,520
Speaker 14: you know, Like these anti fascists are infiltrating these groups,

3027
02:32:55,840 --> 02:32:57,640
Speaker 14: and so is the FBI. Right, Like a lot of

3028
02:32:57,720 --> 02:33:02,240
Speaker 14: these hate groups, somebody is either a paid informant, freelance informant,

3029
02:33:02,400 --> 02:33:06,480
Speaker 14: or an actual undercover agent. And that's great, I guess,

3030
02:33:06,640 --> 02:33:10,200
Speaker 14: but a lot of times they will prioritize keeping their

3031
02:33:10,240 --> 02:33:15,199
Speaker 14: agent undercover, yes, over using the information to protect anyone.

3032
02:33:15,400 --> 02:33:15,560
Speaker 7: Yes.

3033
02:33:16,160 --> 02:33:18,080
Speaker 14: And when we do it, when anti fascists do that,

3034
02:33:18,640 --> 02:33:22,199
Speaker 14: we are invested in protecting our communities. Not building a case.

3035
02:33:22,360 --> 02:33:23,160
Speaker 7: Yes, exactly.

3036
02:33:23,280 --> 02:33:24,720
Speaker 14: You don't need to take this to a grand jury.

3037
02:33:24,800 --> 02:33:25,960
Speaker 14: You don't need to keep a guy in there for

3038
02:33:26,040 --> 02:33:29,560
Speaker 14: twenty years waiting for the big fish. You're protecting a community.

3039
02:33:29,760 --> 02:33:32,320
Speaker 7: Yes, I mean, there's an example of that in the book.

3040
02:33:32,600 --> 02:33:36,320
Speaker 7: There was a kind of this white whale in anti

3041
02:33:36,400 --> 02:33:39,120
Speaker 7: fascist circles that people were trying to identify. And he

3042
02:33:39,240 --> 02:33:41,680
Speaker 7: was a leader in the Ball Patrol, which of course

3043
02:33:41,879 --> 02:33:45,520
Speaker 7: is this community of Nazis that praises his mass shooters

3044
02:33:45,560 --> 02:33:48,119
Speaker 7: and tries to encourage other Nazis to commit mass shootings.

3045
02:33:48,879 --> 02:33:52,400
Speaker 7: And he was eventually identified as this guy named Andrew

3046
02:33:52,520 --> 02:33:57,280
Speaker 7: Casserat in Sacramento, California. I remember Vic, yeah, and his

3047
02:33:57,760 --> 02:34:01,959
Speaker 7: his pseudonym was Vic Mackie. Yeah, and anti fascists identified him.

3048
02:34:02,280 --> 02:34:06,200
Speaker 7: I published a story at huff Post. It emerges later

3049
02:34:06,560 --> 02:34:12,480
Speaker 7: that Andrew Cassat was already on like the no fly lists, yes.

3050
02:34:12,480 --> 02:34:14,840
Speaker 14: Which means the government already knew who that fucking man

3051
02:34:15,080 --> 02:34:17,920
Speaker 14: was when he was he was recording a podcast about

3052
02:34:18,000 --> 02:34:21,640
Speaker 14: shooting me in my womb through my vagina, and the

3053
02:34:21,720 --> 02:34:23,760
Speaker 14: government already knew who he was, yes.

3054
02:34:23,959 --> 02:34:26,760
Speaker 7: And which is just insane. And you know, and they'll

3055
02:34:26,800 --> 02:34:29,520
Speaker 7: claim it's like investigative secrecy, like it's some kind of

3056
02:34:29,640 --> 02:34:31,480
Speaker 7: some kind of pragmatism, but it's like for what, Like

3057
02:34:31,560 --> 02:34:32,879
Speaker 7: they're posing an urgent.

3058
02:34:32,720 --> 02:34:35,600
Speaker 14: Threat for one thing, I felt safer. And I was

3059
02:34:35,680 --> 02:34:38,080
Speaker 14: safer once I knew who he was, once someone did

3060
02:34:38,160 --> 02:34:40,600
Speaker 14: the work of identifying that man, and I could say

3061
02:34:40,959 --> 02:34:44,560
Speaker 14: with certainty he is in California, he is not near me.

3062
02:34:45,360 --> 02:34:48,680
Speaker 14: I was safer, Yes, And like anti fascist gave me

3063
02:34:48,760 --> 02:34:50,400
Speaker 14: that the government did not give me that. The government

3064
02:34:50,400 --> 02:34:51,280
Speaker 14: would never have given me.

3065
02:34:51,320 --> 02:34:54,840
Speaker 7: That, yes, exactly. And I think it's also you know, obviously,

3066
02:34:55,800 --> 02:34:58,040
Speaker 7: you know, a big tenant of militant anti fascism is

3067
02:34:58,080 --> 02:35:00,840
Speaker 7: that you don't trust law enforcem or the state in

3068
02:35:00,920 --> 02:35:04,280
Speaker 7: this fight. And not only for the reasons we're describing now,

3069
02:35:04,840 --> 02:35:08,600
Speaker 7: but there's like this historical irony in when the FBI

3070
02:35:09,280 --> 02:35:13,520
Speaker 7: or law enforcement in general infiltrates white supremacist groups, they

3071
02:35:13,640 --> 02:35:15,400
Speaker 7: end up finding a bunch of their buddies, and these

3072
02:35:15,440 --> 02:35:18,040
Speaker 7: white supremacist groups, like they end up identifying a lot

3073
02:35:18,080 --> 02:35:21,440
Speaker 7: of police officers. And I think it just goes to

3074
02:35:21,520 --> 02:35:24,880
Speaker 7: show the ways in which, obviously law enforcement and white

3075
02:35:24,879 --> 02:35:27,480
Speaker 7: supremacist groups often share similar goals.

3076
02:35:27,959 --> 02:35:30,600
Speaker 14: Very much so, and sometimes once they have a guy

3077
02:35:30,680 --> 02:35:33,120
Speaker 14: in there. I mean, I'm sure it happens still to

3078
02:35:33,160 --> 02:35:35,040
Speaker 14: this day. We don't have the records of it happening now,

3079
02:35:35,280 --> 02:35:37,280
Speaker 14: but we have the sort of sixties and seventies era

3080
02:35:37,600 --> 02:35:40,760
Speaker 14: co intel pro records now that do show that. You know,

3081
02:35:40,920 --> 02:35:44,520
Speaker 14: they had tons of FBI agents infiltrating the clan, allegedly

3082
02:35:44,640 --> 02:35:48,440
Speaker 14: to disrupt the clan, but that's not what they were doing.

3083
02:35:49,120 --> 02:35:53,240
Speaker 14: They were steering the clan into disrupting the civil rights movement.

3084
02:35:53,440 --> 02:35:57,400
Speaker 7: Yes, yes, but I mean most famously the Greensboro massacre

3085
02:35:57,640 --> 02:36:00,960
Speaker 7: where you know, the clan and an other white supremacist

3086
02:36:01,120 --> 02:36:04,840
Speaker 7: murdered some anti fascist communist activists, and then it emerged

3087
02:36:04,920 --> 02:36:08,680
Speaker 7: afterwards that an FBI agent was in the group but

3088
02:36:08,840 --> 02:36:11,879
Speaker 7: didn't report kind of their plans for violence.

3089
02:36:11,800 --> 02:36:14,240
Speaker 14: Over and over again. Yeah, and those five people died

3090
02:36:14,280 --> 02:36:16,600
Speaker 14: for it. Yeah, exactly, which is why I will always

3091
02:36:16,640 --> 02:36:20,880
Speaker 14: trust an anti fascist infiltrator over an FBI agent. Yes,

3092
02:36:21,640 --> 02:36:23,840
Speaker 14: I loved the historical parallels, right, you know, so you

3093
02:36:23,959 --> 02:36:26,520
Speaker 14: take doxing all the way back to the second Clan.

3094
02:36:27,120 --> 02:36:30,119
Speaker 14: You know, this outside agitator narrative is not new, It's

3095
02:36:30,160 --> 02:36:33,199
Speaker 14: something Martin Luther King Junior wrote about you were seeing

3096
02:36:33,200 --> 02:36:35,240
Speaker 14: that now, right, Like, you know, these people protesting their

3097
02:36:35,280 --> 02:36:38,199
Speaker 14: outside agitators. This isn't the real community. The real community

3098
02:36:38,240 --> 02:36:43,039
Speaker 14: wouldn't behave like this. It's the same as it ever was, right, Yeah, yeah, exactly.

3099
02:36:43,120 --> 02:36:46,040
Speaker 7: I mean I think you know, since Antifa kind of

3100
02:36:46,080 --> 02:36:52,000
Speaker 7: exploded into the American consciousness, MAGA and the rights seized

3101
02:36:52,280 --> 02:36:58,520
Speaker 7: on Antifa as a boogeyman, and they trusted that kind

3102
02:36:58,520 --> 02:37:01,760
Speaker 7: of liberals and centrists were going to throw Antifa under

3103
02:37:01,800 --> 02:37:04,200
Speaker 7: the bus, right, that like they were going to come

3104
02:37:04,240 --> 02:37:07,520
Speaker 7: to Antifa's defense necessarily or even acknowledge a lot of

3105
02:37:07,560 --> 02:37:12,120
Speaker 7: times that Antifa existed, and you know, that allowed them

3106
02:37:12,640 --> 02:37:16,440
Speaker 7: to create this boogeyman of like epic proportions. So like

3107
02:37:16,600 --> 02:37:22,720
Speaker 7: in twenty seventeen, after Charlottesville, a synonymous pro Trump troll

3108
02:37:22,879 --> 02:37:29,200
Speaker 7: called Microchip starts a petition to declare Antifa a quote

3109
02:37:29,280 --> 02:37:33,720
Speaker 7: domestic terrorist organization. This petition goes viral, gets like three

3110
02:37:33,800 --> 02:37:37,960
Speaker 7: hundred thousand signees, and Microchip ends up giving an interview

3111
02:37:38,000 --> 02:37:42,840
Speaker 7: to Politico where he's very upfront and frank about why

3112
02:37:42,920 --> 02:37:46,440
Speaker 7: he's doing this, and it's not because the White House

3113
02:37:46,520 --> 02:37:49,800
Speaker 7: is actually going to declare Antifa domestic terrorist organization.

3114
02:37:50,080 --> 02:37:50,400
Speaker 8: Oops.

3115
02:37:50,520 --> 02:37:53,400
Speaker 7: Oops, there's no federal domestic terror statute to even do that.

3116
02:37:53,520 --> 02:37:56,840
Speaker 7: Antifa is not an organization. He's very explicit to say,

3117
02:37:57,560 --> 02:38:00,680
Speaker 7: I'm doing this to set up Antifa as a punching

3118
02:38:00,760 --> 02:38:04,480
Speaker 7: bag and to deflect and distract from the far rights,

3119
02:38:05,000 --> 02:38:05,960
Speaker 7: very real violence.

3120
02:38:06,240 --> 02:38:07,440
Speaker 14: Pretty wild that he said it.

3121
02:38:07,600 --> 02:38:09,840
Speaker 8: He just said it. Yeah, said it.

3122
02:38:10,040 --> 02:38:12,840
Speaker 7: Yeah, And it's like that he admitted it.

3123
02:38:12,959 --> 02:38:14,480
Speaker 14: Meme, Oh my god, he admitted it.

3124
02:38:14,600 --> 02:38:17,720
Speaker 7: He admitted yeah. Yeah. And you know, over the next

3125
02:38:17,760 --> 02:38:20,560
Speaker 7: few months, every time there's a mass shooting, you have

3126
02:38:20,760 --> 02:38:25,120
Speaker 7: folks like Jack Pisobic and other kind of disinformation artists

3127
02:38:25,640 --> 02:38:27,560
Speaker 7: jumping in when you know there's not a lot of

3128
02:38:27,600 --> 02:38:31,080
Speaker 7: information yet to blame these mass shootings on Antifa.

3129
02:38:31,560 --> 02:38:33,760
Speaker 14: I mean, there's a weird troll who still thinks I'm

3130
02:38:33,800 --> 02:38:35,199
Speaker 14: responsible for January sixth.

3131
02:38:35,320 --> 02:38:40,280
Speaker 7: Yes, yes, exactly. Very impressive work, by the way. You know,

3132
02:38:40,400 --> 02:38:43,560
Speaker 7: so they're using Antifa that way to like distract and deflect.

3133
02:38:43,560 --> 02:38:48,600
Speaker 7: They're blaming Antifa for wildfires and trained derailments and all

3134
02:38:48,680 --> 02:38:51,240
Speaker 7: this crazy shit. And then you know there's a little

3135
02:38:51,280 --> 02:38:54,480
Speaker 7: bit of a wall. And then in twenty twenty, the

3136
02:38:54,520 --> 02:38:58,200
Speaker 7: George Floyd uprisings happen, and you know, the George Floyd

3137
02:38:58,320 --> 02:39:03,520
Speaker 7: uprisings are one of the biggest mass uprisings in American history.

3138
02:39:03,920 --> 02:39:07,840
Speaker 7: It's completely grassroots and organic, and it is led by

3139
02:39:08,560 --> 02:39:14,560
Speaker 7: black protesters in their communities inspired by uprisings again in Minneapolis.

3140
02:39:15,120 --> 02:39:16,760
Speaker 14: It's too soon for history to be repeating.

3141
02:39:17,040 --> 02:39:21,680
Speaker 7: I know, it's really crazy, but Antifa, the Antifa boogeyman,

3142
02:39:21,800 --> 02:39:26,279
Speaker 7: now is repurposed as kind of this outside agitator's trope

3143
02:39:26,360 --> 02:39:30,840
Speaker 7: on steroids. Right, So Trump and all these magget influencers

3144
02:39:30,959 --> 02:39:36,920
Speaker 7: rush to blame Antifa for fomenting these mass uprisings, which

3145
02:39:37,000 --> 02:39:37,680
Speaker 7: is absurd.

3146
02:39:38,320 --> 02:39:38,520
Speaker 8: Yeah.

3147
02:39:38,560 --> 02:39:42,680
Speaker 7: Sure, and Antifa activists were at these uprisings, but you know,

3148
02:39:43,280 --> 02:39:46,200
Speaker 7: they weren't instigating them, like nor would they have the

3149
02:39:46,320 --> 02:39:49,480
Speaker 7: organizing power to instigate such a massive uprising like that.

3150
02:39:50,120 --> 02:39:52,960
Speaker 7: When the right is doing this, it's an effort to

3151
02:39:53,560 --> 02:39:58,920
Speaker 7: make these uprisings seem artificial or you know, kind of

3152
02:39:59,360 --> 02:40:03,200
Speaker 7: astroterm something you can dismiss, something you can dismiss as

3153
02:40:03,240 --> 02:40:06,800
Speaker 7: inorganic and artificial. And it's a way of like distracting

3154
02:40:06,959 --> 02:40:11,160
Speaker 7: from the very real grievance at the heart of these demonstrations,

3155
02:40:11,200 --> 02:40:13,920
Speaker 7: which is that we want cops to stop killing black people.

3156
02:40:14,760 --> 02:40:19,000
Speaker 7: So throughout the summer of twenty twenty, the Antifa panic

3157
02:40:19,280 --> 02:40:23,960
Speaker 7: reaches like absurd levels where you know, there are rumors,

3158
02:40:24,080 --> 02:40:29,600
Speaker 7: viral rumors of busloads of Antifa roaming the countryside looking

3159
02:40:29,720 --> 02:40:34,199
Speaker 7: to burn down white businesses. You know, again, Antifa's blamed

3160
02:40:34,240 --> 02:40:36,880
Speaker 7: for wildfires in the West. All of a sudden, you

3161
02:40:37,040 --> 02:40:42,280
Speaker 7: get these paramilitary groups, militia groups out West using these

3162
02:40:42,320 --> 02:40:48,640
Speaker 7: Antifa rumors as a pretext to literally occupy towns, entire towns.

3163
02:40:49,080 --> 02:40:52,160
Speaker 7: You know, you have forty white dudes in full camo

3164
02:40:52,480 --> 02:40:57,200
Speaker 7: and vests carrying big guns patrolling the streets on the

3165
02:40:57,240 --> 02:41:00,360
Speaker 7: lookout for this Antifa menace. You know, there's like story

3166
02:41:00,400 --> 02:41:04,440
Speaker 7: about in a Standpoint, Idaho, which is this gorgeous town

3167
02:41:04,520 --> 02:41:07,680
Speaker 7: in the Panhandle, and these like group of like high

3168
02:41:07,680 --> 02:41:11,520
Speaker 7: school kids go on a Black Lives Matter march across

3169
02:41:11,560 --> 02:41:14,200
Speaker 7: a bridge, and all of a sudden they're being followed

3170
02:41:14,280 --> 02:41:18,959
Speaker 7: by these like middle aged white dudes carrying AR fifteen's

3171
02:41:19,000 --> 02:41:22,920
Speaker 7: and calling them racial slurs Jesus Christ. So like, basically,

3172
02:41:23,360 --> 02:41:27,040
Speaker 7: the Antifa boogeyman in twenty twenty is repackaged again not

3173
02:41:27,200 --> 02:41:30,280
Speaker 7: only to sew division on the left, and to create

3174
02:41:30,360 --> 02:41:34,400
Speaker 7: this outside agitator's narrative, but to create this pretext for

3175
02:41:34,520 --> 02:41:37,320
Speaker 7: vigilante violence. And there was a lot of vigilante violence

3176
02:41:37,640 --> 02:41:40,800
Speaker 7: that occurred in twenty twenty of course, you know, now

3177
02:41:40,920 --> 02:41:45,720
Speaker 7: we're in twenty twenty six, and we saw last throughout

3178
02:41:45,800 --> 02:41:48,920
Speaker 7: last year as well. The Antifa boogeyman again is being,

3179
02:41:49,200 --> 02:41:55,240
Speaker 7: you know, summoned to call whoever opposes the Trump regime's

3180
02:41:55,320 --> 02:42:00,240
Speaker 7: effort to ethnically cleanse the United States, you know, domestic terrorists.

3181
02:42:00,480 --> 02:42:03,840
Speaker 14: Right, The enemy is simultaneously very weak and very strong

3182
02:42:03,920 --> 02:42:05,959
Speaker 14: in their minds, right, like, yeah, we're all a bunch

3183
02:42:06,000 --> 02:42:07,840
Speaker 14: of soy boys who live in our mom's basements, but

3184
02:42:07,879 --> 02:42:12,960
Speaker 14: we were also a massive, networked, armed organization with unlimited fundings.

3185
02:42:13,120 --> 02:42:17,040
Speaker 7: Yes, exactly, exactly, And you know, obviously Trump claimed to

3186
02:42:17,120 --> 02:42:21,800
Speaker 7: formally designate Antifa a domestic terror group in September.

3187
02:42:22,000 --> 02:42:23,039
Speaker 14: Doesn't mean anything.

3188
02:42:23,120 --> 02:42:25,000
Speaker 8: He did say it. He did say it, and.

3189
02:42:25,040 --> 02:42:27,920
Speaker 7: Then he held a Antifa round table at the White

3190
02:42:27,959 --> 02:42:31,320
Speaker 7: House with a lot of our friends anty no Jack Pisovic.

3191
02:42:31,879 --> 02:42:34,320
Speaker 7: But you know, as farcical as it all is, it's

3192
02:42:34,360 --> 02:42:39,000
Speaker 7: also deeply dangerous and alarming. In September, Trump designates Antifa

3193
02:42:39,080 --> 02:42:43,920
Speaker 7: domestic terror group. And then last month they murder Renee

3194
02:42:44,000 --> 02:42:46,640
Speaker 7: Good and cold blood and what do they do. They

3195
02:42:46,720 --> 02:42:48,680
Speaker 7: call her domestic terrorists after the fact.

3196
02:42:49,000 --> 02:42:50,200
Speaker 14: Exactly, it's pretext.

3197
02:42:50,800 --> 02:42:52,359
Speaker 7: It's all pretexts, because.

3198
02:42:52,120 --> 02:42:55,839
Speaker 14: If you create this sort of shadowy network of unidentified

3199
02:42:56,040 --> 02:43:00,440
Speaker 14: agitators who are responsible for unspecified but very bad crimes,

3200
02:43:01,040 --> 02:43:01,720
Speaker 14: you can kill anyone.

3201
02:43:01,800 --> 02:43:04,440
Speaker 7: Say it with them, Yeah, exactly. I wrote a piece

3202
02:43:04,560 --> 02:43:09,760
Speaker 7: for The Nation recently about how there's a tendency in

3203
02:43:09,840 --> 02:43:14,040
Speaker 7: response to like this escalating mega hysteria about Antifa. There's

3204
02:43:14,080 --> 02:43:19,000
Speaker 7: a tendency among liberals and centrists to dismiss Antifa as

3205
02:43:19,080 --> 02:43:21,960
Speaker 7: not existing, to altimately say that it's not even a thing,

3206
02:43:22,680 --> 02:43:26,360
Speaker 7: or to say, well, antifa just means anti fascists, so

3207
02:43:26,440 --> 02:43:30,080
Speaker 7: we're all antifa, but like to me that entirely this

3208
02:43:30,240 --> 02:43:33,160
Speaker 7: is the point, like a like, Antifa is real, and

3209
02:43:33,240 --> 02:43:36,840
Speaker 7: it refers to like a very real subculture and a

3210
02:43:37,000 --> 02:43:42,800
Speaker 7: very real tradition, militant tradition of anti fascist organizing. And

3211
02:43:43,720 --> 02:43:47,840
Speaker 7: if liberals and centrists can't acknowledge that Antifa is real

3212
02:43:47,959 --> 02:43:51,280
Speaker 7: and come to their defense, then you know, the people

3213
02:43:51,400 --> 02:43:53,360
Speaker 7: doing this work might be in some danger. And I

3214
02:43:53,400 --> 02:43:56,920
Speaker 7: think it's important to show them some solidarity right now.

3215
02:43:57,320 --> 02:44:01,600
Speaker 14: It's such a complicated reality, right because it's not a group, yeah,

3216
02:44:01,640 --> 02:44:03,680
Speaker 14: but it is. It's also it's a thousand different groups

3217
02:44:04,080 --> 02:44:06,440
Speaker 14: of two or three or ten. It's not like a

3218
02:44:06,520 --> 02:44:10,200
Speaker 14: nationwide membership organization. You know, it is just an idea,

3219
02:44:10,280 --> 02:44:13,400
Speaker 14: but it's also a history, a set of tactics. It's

3220
02:44:13,400 --> 02:44:15,039
Speaker 14: all of those things, and it's none of those things.

3221
02:44:15,080 --> 02:44:17,760
Speaker 14: And it's different depending on who you ask and why

3222
02:44:17,800 --> 02:44:18,560
Speaker 14: you're asking.

3223
02:44:18,720 --> 02:44:20,880
Speaker 7: Yeah, exactly, And like anyone can do it, you know,

3224
02:44:21,080 --> 02:44:23,480
Speaker 7: like right like anyone can take up the mantle of

3225
02:44:23,600 --> 02:44:25,040
Speaker 7: like militant anti fascist work.

3226
02:44:25,240 --> 02:44:26,600
Speaker 14: A lot of people are doing it on their own.

3227
02:44:26,800 --> 02:44:30,520
Speaker 7: Yeah, and I think like that's what's been so kind

3228
02:44:30,560 --> 02:44:34,160
Speaker 7: of inspiring to me about Minneapolis and the uprisings right is,

3229
02:44:34,760 --> 02:44:38,800
Speaker 7: you know, everything that community is doing right now is

3230
02:44:38,920 --> 02:44:44,400
Speaker 7: a grassroots, organic response, and they're doing it because no

3231
02:44:44,440 --> 02:44:45,800
Speaker 7: one else is going to do it for them.

3232
02:44:46,040 --> 02:44:46,240
Speaker 9: Yeah.

3233
02:44:46,480 --> 02:44:49,840
Speaker 7: There's this axiom that we talk about a lot in

3234
02:44:49,959 --> 02:44:54,280
Speaker 7: anti fascist spaces and anarchist spaces and black liberation movements.

3235
02:44:54,959 --> 02:44:58,560
Speaker 7: You know, this axiom of we protect us, and you

3236
02:44:58,640 --> 02:45:02,440
Speaker 7: know that is on very big display right now in

3237
02:45:03,040 --> 02:45:07,480
Speaker 7: Minneapolis where you have people doing what anti fascist activists

3238
02:45:07,520 --> 02:45:10,960
Speaker 7: were doing to Nazis in twenty seventeen, which is monitoring them,

3239
02:45:11,440 --> 02:45:15,720
Speaker 7: following them, disrupting them. They are figuring out where they

3240
02:45:15,760 --> 02:45:19,360
Speaker 7: are staying, where they're eating, and pressuring those businesses and

3241
02:45:19,400 --> 02:45:22,760
Speaker 7: those hotels not to serve them. They are showing up

3242
02:45:22,800 --> 02:45:28,400
Speaker 7: outside their hotels doing noise demos, they are identifying them.

3243
02:45:28,720 --> 02:45:28,920
Speaker 8: Yeah.

3244
02:45:29,600 --> 02:45:31,720
Speaker 14: Yeah, and I think you know, we protect us is

3245
02:45:31,879 --> 02:45:34,760
Speaker 14: such a you know, it's such a short, pithy phrase,

3246
02:45:34,879 --> 02:45:37,720
Speaker 14: but you don't know what it means until you feel it. Yeah, right,

3247
02:45:37,800 --> 02:45:40,480
Speaker 14: Like I think in Minneapolis people are feeling it. They're

3248
02:45:40,520 --> 02:45:43,640
Speaker 14: protecting each other, right. You know, here in Charlottesville after

3249
02:45:43,760 --> 02:45:46,440
Speaker 14: Unite the Right, you know, when local authority figures were

3250
02:45:46,440 --> 02:45:49,320
Speaker 14: saying things about Antifa, you would have you know, white

3251
02:45:49,360 --> 02:45:50,920
Speaker 14: grandma's get up there and say, don't you say that

3252
02:45:50,959 --> 02:45:53,520
Speaker 14: about antifa? Right, don't you say that about antifa? You

3253
02:45:53,560 --> 02:45:55,160
Speaker 14: know it is a word I didn't know a month ago,

3254
02:45:55,240 --> 02:45:58,280
Speaker 14: but they saved my life. Yes, right that once you

3255
02:45:58,440 --> 02:46:02,120
Speaker 14: have experienced that kind of community solidarity, that that we

3256
02:46:02,320 --> 02:46:05,040
Speaker 14: protect us ethos, once you've seen it, you know what

3257
02:46:05,120 --> 02:46:07,880
Speaker 14: it means, yes, exactly, And nobody's going to tell you different.

3258
02:46:08,120 --> 02:46:10,840
Speaker 7: Yeah, And like you know, it's also it's just so

3259
02:46:11,080 --> 02:46:15,680
Speaker 7: clear in Minneapolis that like the Democratic Party and you know,

3260
02:46:15,879 --> 02:46:20,640
Speaker 7: law enforcement, the local police are not doing anything, you know,

3261
02:46:20,959 --> 02:46:22,600
Speaker 7: like they're not They're.

3262
02:46:22,560 --> 02:46:25,360
Speaker 14: The people that are supposed to protect you. Aren't going to,

3263
02:46:25,560 --> 02:46:27,800
Speaker 14: aren't going to The police will watch you get beaten

3264
02:46:27,840 --> 02:46:31,120
Speaker 14: in the street, yes, yes, exactly, and your center, your

3265
02:46:31,160 --> 02:46:33,440
Speaker 14: senator will say nothing when the President calls you a terrorist.

3266
02:46:34,040 --> 02:46:37,360
Speaker 7: Yes, And so you know, I think it just kind

3267
02:46:37,400 --> 02:46:42,039
Speaker 7: of goes to show that this kind of militant, anti

3268
02:46:42,080 --> 02:46:47,120
Speaker 7: fascist tradition is it's an organic response to conditions. It

3269
02:46:47,240 --> 02:46:51,720
Speaker 7: is like an insurgent form of community self defense. As

3270
02:46:52,120 --> 02:46:56,160
Speaker 7: horrifying as the footage coming out of Minneapolis is, especially

3271
02:46:56,280 --> 02:46:59,080
Speaker 7: that photo this week of the five year old God

3272
02:46:59,320 --> 02:47:01,040
Speaker 7: being detained, which I can't get out of my head

3273
02:47:01,040 --> 02:47:03,400
Speaker 7: and which makes my blood.

3274
02:47:02,840 --> 02:47:05,120
Speaker 14: Boil thinking of it, I can't cry on the recording.

3275
02:47:05,440 --> 02:47:07,040
Speaker 7: Yeah, no, it makes me want to cry too.

3276
02:47:18,240 --> 02:47:20,280
Speaker 14: Something that really struck me reading the book. You know,

3277
02:47:20,280 --> 02:47:23,240
Speaker 14: I was saying, like, you know, I read Vincent Washington's leaks,

3278
02:47:23,280 --> 02:47:26,440
Speaker 14: but he didn't know anything about Vincent. You said that

3279
02:47:26,879 --> 02:47:29,800
Speaker 14: he told you he was moved to start taking this

3280
02:47:29,959 --> 02:47:33,720
Speaker 14: kind of militant action by the Portland Max train stabbing. Yeah,

3281
02:47:34,080 --> 02:47:36,360
Speaker 14: I mean that stopped me in my tracks.

3282
02:47:36,800 --> 02:47:39,200
Speaker 7: Yeah, you know. And I think one of the more

3283
02:47:39,280 --> 02:47:45,360
Speaker 7: moving parts of researching this book was realizing that all

3284
02:47:45,400 --> 02:47:49,600
Speaker 7: of the anti fascists doing this work had brushes with

3285
02:47:50,040 --> 02:47:53,320
Speaker 7: fascist violence in their communities, and that's what inspired them

3286
02:47:53,440 --> 02:47:57,080
Speaker 7: to do it. You know, Vincent was in Portland in

3287
02:47:57,480 --> 02:48:01,600
Speaker 7: twenty what year was that was seventeen May twenty seventeen, right,

3288
02:48:02,120 --> 02:48:06,800
Speaker 7: and he gets on a train at Hollywood Station in Portland,

3289
02:48:07,440 --> 02:48:10,040
Speaker 7: goes to a friend's place, has a good time, and

3290
02:48:10,120 --> 02:48:13,960
Speaker 7: then later reads the news and realizes that had he

3291
02:48:14,160 --> 02:48:18,480
Speaker 7: taken one train before his that left about a minute before,

3292
02:48:19,200 --> 02:48:21,080
Speaker 7: he could have been in this car where this white

3293
02:48:21,120 --> 02:48:27,360
Speaker 7: supremacist named Jeremy Christian started harassing to black Muslim girls.

3294
02:48:27,840 --> 02:48:30,840
Speaker 7: He is haranguing them, telling them to get out of America.

3295
02:48:31,680 --> 02:48:37,120
Speaker 7: When three men intervene, Jeremy Christian slashes the throats of

3296
02:48:37,160 --> 02:48:40,360
Speaker 7: the three men and two of them die. God, we're

3297
02:48:40,360 --> 02:48:42,360
Speaker 7: gonna get emotional on this, but like one of the.

3298
02:48:42,400 --> 02:48:44,720
Speaker 14: Last times, this one really really gets to me. I've

3299
02:48:44,879 --> 02:48:46,800
Speaker 14: sort of brushed up against the story and a couple

3300
02:48:46,840 --> 02:48:49,840
Speaker 14: of things I've written, And I mean it's one of

3301
02:48:49,920 --> 02:48:53,840
Speaker 14: the most moving encounters you know, of all of these

3302
02:48:53,840 --> 02:48:56,680
Speaker 14: sort of moving pieces, right that a Nazi committing violence

3303
02:48:56,720 --> 02:49:00,879
Speaker 14: against a Somali immigrant. Right, that's so relevant today, ordinary

3304
02:49:00,959 --> 02:49:03,840
Speaker 14: people intervening. Only one of them was sort of an

3305
02:49:03,879 --> 02:49:06,840
Speaker 14: active anti fascist in his community, the young man that survived,

3306
02:49:06,920 --> 02:49:10,800
Speaker 14: Micah Fletcher. The other two were just everyday dudes, every

3307
02:49:10,840 --> 02:49:13,280
Speaker 14: day dudes. They didn't have anti fascist politics. But they

3308
02:49:13,360 --> 02:49:16,160
Speaker 14: saw a Nazi threatening a little girl.

3309
02:49:16,640 --> 02:49:19,080
Speaker 7: They saw Nazi threatening a little girl, and they lost

3310
02:49:19,120 --> 02:49:24,680
Speaker 7: their lives. And as one of them, and I'm blanking

3311
02:49:24,720 --> 02:49:28,120
Speaker 7: on his name right now, it's Talisian. Yeah, was lying

3312
02:49:29,000 --> 02:49:31,760
Speaker 7: bleeding out. He said, tell everyone on this train, I

3313
02:49:31,879 --> 02:49:36,640
Speaker 7: love them. So I actually flew to Portland's a few

3314
02:49:36,720 --> 02:49:40,879
Speaker 7: days later and ended up interviewing his girlfriend. Oh my god,

3315
02:49:41,000 --> 02:49:46,360
Speaker 7: you kept a journal of their relationship and read me

3316
02:49:46,480 --> 02:49:49,400
Speaker 7: passages from it, and like, you know, how beautiful the

3317
02:49:49,480 --> 02:49:51,560
Speaker 7: relationship was. They had just moved in together, they were

3318
02:49:51,600 --> 02:49:55,720
Speaker 7: growing a garden together, and before he left that morning

3319
02:49:55,760 --> 02:49:59,040
Speaker 7: he get on that train, he said something really wonderful

3320
02:49:59,800 --> 02:50:02,360
Speaker 7: just about how much he loved her. So, you know,

3321
02:50:02,720 --> 02:50:06,360
Speaker 7: basically his day started and ended with these expressions.

3322
02:50:05,879 --> 02:50:07,920
Speaker 14: Of love that would always really rex me.

3323
02:50:08,160 --> 02:50:08,920
Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, me too.

3324
02:50:09,680 --> 02:50:12,000
Speaker 14: But seeing that that was sort of you know, as

3325
02:50:12,200 --> 02:50:14,680
Speaker 14: someone who got into this work after seeing what happened

3326
02:50:15,000 --> 02:50:17,400
Speaker 14: where I live, Yes exactly, it was. It was very

3327
02:50:17,440 --> 02:50:19,119
Speaker 14: striking to me that you know, it was the same

3328
02:50:19,200 --> 02:50:21,840
Speaker 14: for Vincent. It was something that he was not involved in.

3329
02:50:21,959 --> 02:50:24,200
Speaker 14: He didn't he didn't witness this stabbing, but he was

3330
02:50:24,280 --> 02:50:27,000
Speaker 14: so close to it. It felt so intimate to him,

3331
02:50:27,200 --> 02:50:29,439
Speaker 14: and he felt like, well, I have to do something.

3332
02:50:29,400 --> 02:50:31,840
Speaker 7: Yes exactly. And there were so many other examples that

3333
02:50:31,959 --> 02:50:35,080
Speaker 7: I name in the book of these really horrendous hate

3334
02:50:35,160 --> 02:50:38,760
Speaker 7: crimes taking place in Portland and Seattle and across the

3335
02:50:38,800 --> 02:50:42,160
Speaker 7: Pacific Northwest, which you know historically has been a hub

3336
02:50:42,320 --> 02:50:46,560
Speaker 7: for white supremacist organizing. So you know, for Vincent, if

3337
02:50:46,840 --> 02:50:49,440
Speaker 7: the threat felt very real to people he knew and loved,

3338
02:50:49,800 --> 02:50:54,199
Speaker 7: which is why he decided to go undercover into Patriot

3339
02:50:54,280 --> 02:50:56,480
Speaker 7: Front and to fuck up Patriot Front. He had done

3340
02:50:57,120 --> 02:50:59,800
Speaker 7: some other anti fascist work before that, like kind of

3341
02:51:00,400 --> 02:51:03,600
Speaker 7: monitoring the Proud Boys, but then, you know, I think

3342
02:51:04,120 --> 02:51:05,400
Speaker 7: when the Proud Boys were on a bit of a

3343
02:51:05,440 --> 02:51:09,120
Speaker 7: decline after January sixth he started to look at groups

3344
02:51:09,160 --> 02:51:11,880
Speaker 7: that operated more in the dark and were more secretive,

3345
02:51:12,480 --> 02:51:15,920
Speaker 7: and he decided to focus on Patriot Front.

3346
02:51:16,360 --> 02:51:18,720
Speaker 14: And how prescient at that time. I mean, Patriot Front

3347
02:51:19,200 --> 02:51:22,240
Speaker 14: in twenty seventeen didn't exist in early twenty seventeen, but

3348
02:51:22,280 --> 02:51:25,640
Speaker 14: sort of as they rebranded into twenty eighteen from Vanguard America.

3349
02:51:26,040 --> 02:51:27,680
Speaker 14: I mean, how prescient of him to know that that

3350
02:51:27,720 --> 02:51:28,600
Speaker 14: would be the place to go.

3351
02:51:28,920 --> 02:51:32,040
Speaker 7: Yeah, No, totally like that. That's where I think the

3352
02:51:32,800 --> 02:51:36,800
Speaker 7: energy was and like kind of the anonymous organizing was going,

3353
02:51:37,480 --> 02:51:40,240
Speaker 7: and you know, and what he did was really remarkable.

3354
02:51:40,280 --> 02:51:43,920
Speaker 7: I think a lot of anti fascist infiltrations and spy

3355
02:51:44,040 --> 02:51:48,040
Speaker 7: work is done online. You know, people just creating a

3356
02:51:48,120 --> 02:51:51,800
Speaker 7: username in an avatar and they can manage to do

3357
02:51:51,920 --> 02:51:54,800
Speaker 7: most of the espionage from behind a computer screen.

3358
02:51:55,320 --> 02:51:55,440
Speaker 10: You know.

3359
02:51:55,680 --> 02:51:59,160
Speaker 7: One of the more significant acts of espionage during this

3360
02:51:59,320 --> 02:52:03,000
Speaker 7: era is like that goes undercover into Identity Europa and

3361
02:52:03,160 --> 02:52:07,120
Speaker 7: again manages to get reams and reams of their private messages,

3362
02:52:07,160 --> 02:52:09,920
Speaker 7: which end up on Unicorn Riot and that destroyed them too,

3363
02:52:10,120 --> 02:52:13,640
Speaker 7: destroyed them and you know those messages, the panic and

3364
02:52:13,680 --> 02:52:18,000
Speaker 7: the discord like database ends up identifying one hundred Nazis

3365
02:52:18,200 --> 02:52:21,360
Speaker 7: in Identity Europa, which is just remarkable. The anti fascist

3366
02:52:21,400 --> 02:52:24,920
Speaker 7: spy that did this I talked to and he just

3367
02:52:25,000 --> 02:52:29,320
Speaker 7: had to do an interview with an Identity Europa leader

3368
02:52:29,440 --> 02:52:31,360
Speaker 7: to get into the group and I got to listen

3369
02:52:31,400 --> 02:52:34,560
Speaker 7: to that recording and it's remarkable. But you know, after that,

3370
02:52:34,680 --> 02:52:36,840
Speaker 7: he didn't have to do that much in person, you know,

3371
02:52:37,000 --> 02:52:40,560
Speaker 7: method acting to pretend to be a Nazi vincent. However

3372
02:52:40,800 --> 02:52:43,440
Speaker 7: did he you know, for five months he was going hiking.

3373
02:52:43,800 --> 02:52:46,680
Speaker 7: He was going hiking, man like, because Patriotfront requires you

3374
02:52:46,800 --> 02:52:50,480
Speaker 7: to go on missions and hikes and you know, kind

3375
02:52:50,480 --> 02:52:53,200
Speaker 7: of group activities. He had to do shit in person.

3376
02:52:53,360 --> 02:52:57,520
Speaker 7: So like this dude was acting like deserves an oscar,

3377
02:52:58,240 --> 02:53:01,039
Speaker 7: you know. So he climbed Mount Rain for two nights

3378
02:53:01,160 --> 02:53:04,720
Speaker 7: with thirteen other Nazis, Oh my god. And by the way,

3379
02:53:04,760 --> 02:53:09,000
Speaker 7: at this point had earned the trust of his local

3380
02:53:09,160 --> 02:53:12,600
Speaker 7: chapters so much that he was named the official photographer

3381
02:53:12,720 --> 02:53:16,160
Speaker 7: and videographer for the chapter, which is just delicious.

3382
02:53:16,360 --> 02:53:19,480
Speaker 14: They're so smart, smart, so smart. I mean it's like

3383
02:53:19,560 --> 02:53:21,800
Speaker 14: it's like that Simpsons bit, right, Like videotaping this crime

3384
02:53:21,840 --> 02:53:25,840
Speaker 14: spree was the best idea we ever take video of everything.

3385
02:53:25,879 --> 02:53:29,040
Speaker 14: They do yes, and then because of these leaks, we

3386
02:53:29,200 --> 02:53:31,920
Speaker 14: see that in several lawsuits against Patriot Front right like

3387
02:53:31,959 --> 02:53:35,760
Speaker 14: they are recording video as they you know, vandalize civil

3388
02:53:35,840 --> 02:53:38,480
Speaker 14: rights monuments and things like that, and then they got

3389
02:53:38,560 --> 02:53:40,000
Speaker 14: sued in three places.

3390
02:53:40,160 --> 02:53:42,800
Speaker 7: Yes, and it's it's basically the stringer bell like, are

3391
02:53:42,840 --> 02:53:45,080
Speaker 7: you taking notes on a criminal conspiracy? You know me,

3392
02:53:45,520 --> 02:53:49,800
Speaker 7: they are, and they are, so you know, eventually all

3393
02:53:49,879 --> 02:53:52,360
Speaker 7: this data that Vincent collects. And by the way, so

3394
02:53:52,440 --> 02:53:55,680
Speaker 7: he's in the group for about five months, He's scheduled

3395
02:53:55,760 --> 02:53:59,720
Speaker 7: to go to their big march in DC, but the

3396
02:53:59,800 --> 02:54:02,600
Speaker 7: last minute claims he can't because the FBI knocks on

3397
02:54:02,680 --> 02:54:05,160
Speaker 7: his door. That's a lie. He's just doing that to

3398
02:54:05,200 --> 02:54:10,240
Speaker 7: scare Patriot Front when Patriofront gets to DC and goes

3399
02:54:10,280 --> 02:54:14,240
Speaker 7: on their march. So anti fascists in DC know their plans,

3400
02:54:14,520 --> 02:54:17,400
Speaker 7: and they know where they are parking their vehicles for

3401
02:54:17,480 --> 02:54:20,560
Speaker 7: this march. They know where Patriofront is going to march.

3402
02:54:21,120 --> 02:54:25,200
Speaker 7: And let's just say, some Nazi cars get redecorated.

3403
02:54:24,879 --> 02:54:27,040
Speaker 14: Some tires did not make it out of DC that night.

3404
02:54:27,400 --> 02:54:29,520
Speaker 7: Tires did not make it out of DC, some windshields

3405
02:54:30,040 --> 02:54:33,760
Speaker 7: did not survive. There is some graffiti. Patriotfront gets back

3406
02:54:33,760 --> 02:54:35,720
Speaker 7: to their U hauls. First off that they used to

3407
02:54:36,240 --> 02:54:39,720
Speaker 7: get transported into d C from suburban Maryland. Their U

3408
02:54:39,800 --> 02:54:43,040
Speaker 7: hauls are fucked up. They get back to Maryland finally

3409
02:54:43,640 --> 02:54:46,720
Speaker 7: and to see all their cars fucked up, so you know,

3410
02:54:46,879 --> 02:54:49,519
Speaker 7: there's an act of sabotage. They realize they have an infiltrator.

3411
02:54:50,240 --> 02:54:52,800
Speaker 7: Before long they realize that it's the man they know

3412
02:54:52,920 --> 02:54:56,320
Speaker 7: is Vincent, and I think they think that that's it,

3413
02:54:56,720 --> 02:54:59,840
Speaker 7: like there'll be a few doses, but you know that

3414
02:55:00,120 --> 02:55:02,840
Speaker 7: it didn't seem like he hacked their server. But then

3415
02:55:03,000 --> 02:55:06,480
Speaker 7: of course a month later, all of their messages end up,

3416
02:55:06,560 --> 02:55:09,320
Speaker 7: everything end up on Unicorn. Riot You tell Thomas Russou

3417
02:55:10,480 --> 02:55:13,600
Speaker 7: the news of this, Oh that was such a treat. Yeah,

3418
02:55:13,760 --> 02:55:15,560
Speaker 7: I can't, I can't believe we've never talked about this.

3419
02:55:16,200 --> 02:55:19,080
Speaker 7: And over the course of the next few months years,

3420
02:55:19,600 --> 02:55:24,560
Speaker 7: so many Patriot Front members are identified, and there's also

3421
02:55:24,680 --> 02:55:29,520
Speaker 7: some other delicious details like Vincent, after his infiltration is over,

3422
02:55:30,480 --> 02:55:34,320
Speaker 7: he has all this Patriot Front propaganda material that he

3423
02:55:35,080 --> 02:55:39,960
Speaker 7: kind of took along the way, banners, pamphlets, shields. So

3424
02:55:40,080 --> 02:55:41,880
Speaker 7: what he does on New Year's is he makes a

3425
02:55:42,520 --> 02:55:46,520
Speaker 7: pire Towering Pire of this material and lights it on fire,

3426
02:55:47,240 --> 02:55:49,959
Speaker 7: makes a really beautiful video set to old lang Syne

3427
02:55:50,640 --> 02:55:54,600
Speaker 7: and post it online for Patriot Front to see, and

3428
02:55:54,720 --> 02:55:57,480
Speaker 7: I think kind of warning them that, like you know,

3429
02:55:57,680 --> 02:56:00,280
Speaker 7: there might be some more coming, some more docs coming,

3430
02:56:00,400 --> 02:56:02,600
Speaker 7: some more stuff coming. And the thing is is, like

3431
02:56:02,720 --> 02:56:06,160
Speaker 7: Vincent's story is just one story, one kind of remarkable

3432
02:56:06,200 --> 02:56:09,400
Speaker 7: story of anti fascist spywork over the last ten years.

3433
02:56:09,600 --> 02:56:13,120
Speaker 7: There are so many other stories that I heard about that,

3434
02:56:13,520 --> 02:56:15,520
Speaker 7: for various reasons I couldn't put in the book, or

3435
02:56:15,560 --> 02:56:19,000
Speaker 7: there wasn't room for in the book. But it's just, yeah,

3436
02:56:19,400 --> 02:56:22,080
Speaker 7: I feel very privileged that I got to tell this

3437
02:56:22,200 --> 02:56:23,680
Speaker 7: story that not many people know.

3438
02:56:24,320 --> 02:56:26,360
Speaker 14: It was such a great framework for the book because

3439
02:56:26,360 --> 02:56:28,920
Speaker 14: it's not just about that particular infiltration, but it sort

3440
02:56:28,920 --> 02:56:32,320
Speaker 14: of provides this this running framework, this sort of introduction

3441
02:56:32,440 --> 02:56:35,280
Speaker 14: to the concept. I thought it was very nicely done.

3442
02:56:35,320 --> 02:56:37,440
Speaker 14: I was excited to learn about Vincent because I have only,

3443
02:56:38,040 --> 02:56:40,440
Speaker 14: like I said, read his leaks and then the lawsuits

3444
02:56:40,520 --> 02:56:43,160
Speaker 14: that had inspired and then the lawsuit against him, right, yeah,

3445
02:56:43,280 --> 02:56:46,280
Speaker 14: which was dismissed last week. Yes, it was congratulations Vincent,

3446
02:56:46,400 --> 02:56:46,800
Speaker 14: Yes it was.

3447
02:56:46,959 --> 02:56:49,000
Speaker 7: Yes. The book gets into this a little bit, but

3448
02:56:49,240 --> 02:56:52,360
Speaker 7: Patriot Front does end up ascertaining what it believes is

3449
02:56:52,560 --> 02:56:56,760
Speaker 7: Vincent's real identity, and they file a lawsuit in federal

3450
02:56:56,840 --> 02:57:01,480
Speaker 7: court in Washington, and it had been ongoing for the

3451
02:57:01,600 --> 02:57:06,320
Speaker 7: last year or two, but was finally dismissed in court

3452
02:57:06,400 --> 02:57:07,879
Speaker 7: this week. Yeah, or last week.

3453
02:57:08,520 --> 02:57:10,560
Speaker 14: So congratulations to the person who may or may not

3454
02:57:10,640 --> 02:57:11,200
Speaker 14: have been Vincent.

3455
02:57:11,320 --> 02:57:12,200
Speaker 7: Yes, I'll never know.

3456
02:57:12,720 --> 02:57:15,640
Speaker 14: It didn't make it didn't make it to a How

3457
02:57:15,680 --> 02:57:16,880
Speaker 14: think it ever made it to a hearing?

3458
02:57:17,320 --> 02:57:17,360
Speaker 10: No?

3459
02:57:17,720 --> 02:57:18,840
Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, I know.

3460
02:57:18,920 --> 02:57:20,600
Speaker 14: I said I wouldn't take up a ton of your time,

3461
02:57:20,760 --> 02:57:24,080
Speaker 14: but I can't let you go without talking about red Beard.

3462
02:57:24,480 --> 02:57:25,040
Speaker 7: Oh my god.

3463
02:57:25,320 --> 02:57:30,440
Speaker 14: This is the first concrete confirmed published docs of red Beard.

3464
02:57:30,959 --> 02:57:31,480
Speaker 8: Oh my god.

3465
02:57:31,560 --> 02:57:33,240
Speaker 7: Yeah. I can't believe it's taken us this long to

3466
02:57:33,280 --> 02:57:34,720
Speaker 7: talk about it. Thank you for reminding me.

3467
02:57:35,480 --> 02:57:38,000
Speaker 14: So for the listener. You know, we talk about how

3468
02:57:38,080 --> 02:57:40,080
Speaker 14: this is, this is worth that is accessible to everyone,

3469
02:57:40,200 --> 02:57:42,600
Speaker 14: but it is not for everyone. And Red Beard to

3470
02:57:42,640 --> 02:57:46,160
Speaker 14: someone I have read so many incorrect doxes of And

3471
02:57:46,200 --> 02:57:49,160
Speaker 14: that's why it is so important. It's so important to

3472
02:57:49,160 --> 02:57:50,640
Speaker 14: be sure of what you're writing, because I've read one

3473
02:57:50,720 --> 02:57:53,440
Speaker 14: hundred failed doxes of this man. Yeah, and this one's real.

3474
02:57:53,680 --> 02:57:57,880
Speaker 7: Yeah, So red Beard, to those who don't know, again,

3475
02:57:58,080 --> 02:58:00,840
Speaker 7: was kind of this white whale and anti fascist circles

3476
02:58:00,920 --> 02:58:06,560
Speaker 7: white supremacists will basically insomuch as he was one of

3477
02:58:06,640 --> 02:58:10,520
Speaker 7: the men filmed in Charlottesville in twenty seventeen beating DeAndre Harris.

3478
02:58:11,120 --> 02:58:13,680
Speaker 7: For those that don't remember, DeAndre Harris was a black

3479
02:58:14,000 --> 02:58:17,960
Speaker 7: counterprotester resident of the Charlottesville area. He was a nineteen

3480
02:58:18,000 --> 02:58:21,640
Speaker 7: year old teacher for special ed students and he ends

3481
02:58:21,720 --> 02:58:26,560
Speaker 7: up in a scuffle with Nazis that are leaving Charlottesville,

3482
02:58:26,920 --> 02:58:30,000
Speaker 7: leaving the rally, and they end up in a parking

3483
02:58:30,040 --> 02:58:32,920
Speaker 7: garage where five of them beat him while he's on

3484
02:58:33,160 --> 02:58:37,840
Speaker 7: the pavement with metal poles and other weapons, and it's

3485
02:58:37,879 --> 02:58:40,720
Speaker 7: captured on camera. I think it's one of the more

3486
02:58:41,440 --> 02:58:45,480
Speaker 7: distressing things to watch from Charlottesville. I actually happened to

3487
02:58:45,520 --> 02:58:47,600
Speaker 7: be in the garage at the time, was running towards

3488
02:58:47,640 --> 02:58:50,520
Speaker 7: DeAndre when one of the Nazis pulled a gun and

3489
02:58:50,600 --> 02:58:52,600
Speaker 7: started waving it around, so I ducked behind a car.

3490
02:58:53,440 --> 02:58:55,680
Speaker 7: By the time I got up, DeAndre was stumbling away.

3491
02:58:55,760 --> 02:58:57,119
Speaker 7: There was a pool of blood on the pavement.

3492
02:58:57,440 --> 02:59:00,280
Speaker 14: Wait, I have to go back to the footage. Who

3493
02:59:00,400 --> 02:59:01,280
Speaker 14: was it that pulled the gun.

3494
02:59:01,640 --> 02:59:02,480
Speaker 7: I'm not sure it is.

3495
02:59:02,600 --> 02:59:04,920
Speaker 14: Oh, were you over on the police station side of

3496
02:59:04,959 --> 02:59:05,520
Speaker 14: the divider.

3497
02:59:06,440 --> 02:59:08,440
Speaker 7: I think I was running pack.

3498
02:59:08,440 --> 02:59:10,480
Speaker 14: I had to go back and find you in the footage. Yeah,

3499
02:59:10,520 --> 02:59:11,760
Speaker 14: I think the guy who pointed a gun at you

3500
02:59:11,800 --> 02:59:12,640
Speaker 14: is Teddy von Nucomb.

3501
02:59:12,760 --> 02:59:14,480
Speaker 7: Oh my god. Well if we can make that idea that.

3502
02:59:14,520 --> 02:59:16,560
Speaker 14: Because he pulled because he pulled the gun he did.

3503
02:59:16,720 --> 02:59:18,440
Speaker 14: I mean, somebody else may have pulled a gun, but

3504
02:59:18,520 --> 02:59:19,280
Speaker 14: Teddy pulled a gun.

3505
02:59:19,640 --> 02:59:21,920
Speaker 7: Okay, I need to look at a photo of Teddy

3506
02:59:22,000 --> 02:59:24,680
Speaker 7: van Nucam it all happened so fad Oh, oh it's

3507
02:59:24,720 --> 02:59:27,280
Speaker 7: that guy. Yeah, Oh my god, Oh my god. Okay,

3508
02:59:27,640 --> 02:59:28,760
Speaker 7: all right, let's talk about this.

3509
02:59:28,800 --> 02:59:33,880
Speaker 14: Way Molly here recording. After the interview was over, I

3510
02:59:33,959 --> 02:59:36,840
Speaker 14: went back and reviewed that footage, and my memory did

3511
02:59:36,959 --> 02:59:37,960
Speaker 14: fail me a little bit.

3512
02:59:38,040 --> 02:59:38,200
Speaker 9: Here.

3513
02:59:38,879 --> 02:59:41,800
Speaker 14: I was thinking about the right moment right after the

3514
02:59:41,920 --> 02:59:44,720
Speaker 14: victim and that beating has sort of broken away from

3515
02:59:44,760 --> 02:59:47,119
Speaker 14: the main portion of the assault and he's running away.

3516
02:59:48,040 --> 02:59:51,280
Speaker 14: The video taken by Unicorn Riot hands over to follow him,

3517
02:59:51,840 --> 02:59:54,000
Speaker 14: and as the camera sweeps across the area on the

3518
02:59:54,080 --> 02:59:56,520
Speaker 14: other side of the parking garage, you can see a

3519
02:59:56,640 --> 03:00:00,520
Speaker 14: Nazi named Teddy von Nucomb, that's his real name, changed it.

3520
03:00:01,200 --> 03:00:03,000
Speaker 14: He takes a swing at the victim with what looks

3521
03:00:03,040 --> 03:00:06,440
Speaker 14: like a baton, and at the same moment somebody does

3522
03:00:06,560 --> 03:00:10,240
Speaker 14: pull a handgun, but it's an unidentified man standing right

3523
03:00:10,360 --> 03:00:13,480
Speaker 14: behind Teddy von Nucom. I had the image mixed up

3524
03:00:13,520 --> 03:00:17,000
Speaker 14: in my recollection. Sorry about that. Teddyvon Nucum, as I

3525
03:00:17,040 --> 03:00:20,080
Speaker 14: said in the interview, is dead. He shot himself in

3526
03:00:20,120 --> 03:00:22,640
Speaker 14: the chest in twenty twenty three, the morning he was

3527
03:00:22,680 --> 03:00:26,080
Speaker 14: supposed to go on trial for fentanyl trafficking. I wish

3528
03:00:26,160 --> 03:00:27,800
Speaker 14: I could tell you who the little nazie, what the

3529
03:00:27,840 --> 03:00:30,760
Speaker 14: gun is, but it looks like there's no ID on him,

3530
03:00:31,360 --> 03:00:34,840
Speaker 14: not yet anyway. Sorry for the listener. This is something

3531
03:00:35,400 --> 03:00:37,640
Speaker 14: I think Chris and I have both spent probably one

3532
03:00:37,800 --> 03:00:41,520
Speaker 14: hundred hours looking at frame by frame video from seventeen

3533
03:00:41,600 --> 03:00:44,760
Speaker 14: angles of this particular assault for a variety of reasons.

3534
03:00:44,920 --> 03:00:47,520
Speaker 14: Right right, So, it was this brutal gang assault on

3535
03:00:47,600 --> 03:00:50,199
Speaker 14: this young black man, and four people went to prison

3536
03:00:50,320 --> 03:00:52,280
Speaker 14: for it, yes, and some people didn't.

3537
03:00:52,400 --> 03:00:55,320
Speaker 7: Some people didn't. And one of them was a you know,

3538
03:00:55,480 --> 03:00:58,840
Speaker 7: kind of a bigger white dude with a big red

3539
03:00:58,879 --> 03:01:03,080
Speaker 7: beard wearing a baseball cap who from then on earned

3540
03:01:03,200 --> 03:01:06,880
Speaker 7: the nickname Redbeard. There are all these like you mentioned,

3541
03:01:07,000 --> 03:01:07,280
Speaker 7: kind of.

3542
03:01:07,800 --> 03:01:09,840
Speaker 14: A million just like every fat guy with a red

3543
03:01:09,879 --> 03:01:12,440
Speaker 14: beard on the East Post has been identified as red Beard.

3544
03:01:12,680 --> 03:01:14,440
Speaker 7: Yes, exactly. And it was like all these like kind

3545
03:01:14,440 --> 03:01:18,560
Speaker 7: of amateur online sleuths. I think Sean King was in

3546
03:01:18,600 --> 03:01:20,520
Speaker 7: the mix for this back in the day, you know,

3547
03:01:20,800 --> 03:01:23,440
Speaker 7: trying to idea this guy. No one can find him.

3548
03:01:23,800 --> 03:01:27,480
Speaker 7: A lot of people are fossily identified. The Charlottesville Police

3549
03:01:27,480 --> 03:01:30,680
Speaker 7: Department can't find him. A detective puts out like a

3550
03:01:30,760 --> 03:01:34,520
Speaker 7: call for help, but nothing comes in eventually. And where

3551
03:01:34,600 --> 03:01:37,360
Speaker 7: my book kicks off in this story is there's a

3552
03:01:37,440 --> 03:01:40,840
Speaker 7: group of anti fascist researchers called Ignite the Right that

3553
03:01:41,080 --> 03:01:44,360
Speaker 7: is dedicated to identifying every Nazi that turned up in

3554
03:01:44,440 --> 03:01:48,160
Speaker 7: Charlottesville in twenty seventeen. And they create a database of

3555
03:01:48,240 --> 03:01:50,760
Speaker 7: all these photos and videos and a list of all

3556
03:01:50,800 --> 03:01:53,720
Speaker 7: the people that have been identified, and the list of

3557
03:01:53,879 --> 03:01:56,640
Speaker 7: names that they are identifying keeps on growing and growing,

3558
03:01:57,160 --> 03:02:01,120
Speaker 7: and they're identifying some like really crazy names. Like one

3559
03:02:01,400 --> 03:02:04,000
Speaker 7: of the stories I ended up doing was about a

3560
03:02:04,360 --> 03:02:08,240
Speaker 7: police officer who was working as Richard Spencer's personal Donnelly

3561
03:02:08,480 --> 03:02:11,760
Speaker 7: John Donnelly security guard in Charlottesville. So they're doing a

3562
03:02:11,800 --> 03:02:14,920
Speaker 7: lot of really significant docs is like that, but they

3563
03:02:14,959 --> 03:02:20,240
Speaker 7: still can't find red Beard. Eventually, they decide to use

3564
03:02:20,600 --> 03:02:24,800
Speaker 7: facial recognition, which is interesting. You know, obviously I think

3565
03:02:24,959 --> 03:02:29,879
Speaker 7: anti fascists out of principle are opposed to facial recognition software.

3566
03:02:30,320 --> 03:02:33,360
Speaker 7: But I think, you know, you kind of can't show

3567
03:02:33,440 --> 03:02:36,720
Speaker 7: up to a gunfight with a knife kind of situation.

3568
03:02:37,080 --> 03:02:40,520
Speaker 14: What that's still I think is not enough in this case, right,

3569
03:02:40,560 --> 03:02:44,440
Speaker 14: because the commercially available facial recognition software that you know,

3570
03:02:44,480 --> 03:02:46,640
Speaker 14: the average non law enforcement person would have access to

3571
03:02:47,280 --> 03:02:51,680
Speaker 14: really struggles with round faces like his and big beards.

3572
03:02:52,040 --> 03:02:53,600
Speaker 14: So he's got a big beard and a hat and

3573
03:02:53,640 --> 03:02:55,960
Speaker 14: his face is very round, and so it's going to

3574
03:02:56,040 --> 03:02:59,360
Speaker 14: pull a lot of just sort of round faced redheads, yes.

3575
03:02:59,360 --> 03:03:02,240
Speaker 7: Exactly, and so like either, you know, there's it's a

3576
03:03:02,360 --> 03:03:05,520
Speaker 7: very important and anti fascist work. A facial recognition hit

3577
03:03:05,720 --> 03:03:08,200
Speaker 7: is never one hundred percent, you have to corroborate it.

3578
03:03:08,320 --> 03:03:09,120
Speaker 14: It's not enough.

3579
03:03:09,320 --> 03:03:13,000
Speaker 7: So they finally use facial recognition for Redbeard and they

3580
03:03:13,040 --> 03:03:16,120
Speaker 7: get a hit, and the hit is a baby faced,

3581
03:03:16,800 --> 03:03:21,640
Speaker 7: beardless like nineteen year old white dude in a army

3582
03:03:21,760 --> 03:03:25,959
Speaker 7: uniform at a at a base in Georgia, and he's

3583
03:03:26,760 --> 03:03:30,280
Speaker 7: about to shake the hand of President George W.

3584
03:03:30,480 --> 03:03:30,760
Speaker 8: Bush.

3585
03:03:32,240 --> 03:03:36,600
Speaker 7: And the reason he's photographed for this is because Bush

3586
03:03:36,840 --> 03:03:39,879
Speaker 7: is making a visit to this military base. I believe

3587
03:03:39,879 --> 03:03:44,800
Speaker 7: it's Fort Benning to announce his troop surge in Iraq.

3588
03:03:45,160 --> 03:03:47,680
Speaker 7: So a lot of these people are about to be

3589
03:03:47,720 --> 03:03:49,080
Speaker 7: sent off to his war.

3590
03:03:49,640 --> 03:03:50,880
Speaker 14: And then he brought the war home.

3591
03:03:50,959 --> 03:03:52,680
Speaker 7: And then he brought the war. Oh man, Yeah, brought

3592
03:03:52,720 --> 03:03:56,320
Speaker 7: the war home. And then so the anti fascist zoom

3593
03:03:56,360 --> 03:03:59,880
Speaker 7: in on this photo, but the name tag is Blory,

3594
03:04:00,440 --> 03:04:03,040
Speaker 7: so they can't figure out who Red Beard is yet.

3595
03:04:03,800 --> 03:04:06,959
Speaker 7: To make a long story short, I end up filing

3596
03:04:07,200 --> 03:04:11,080
Speaker 7: a public information request to the George W. Bush Library

3597
03:04:11,280 --> 03:04:12,240
Speaker 7: in Texas.

3598
03:04:12,040 --> 03:04:13,600
Speaker 14: Right, because they would have had to vet everyone who

3599
03:04:13,680 --> 03:04:14,000
Speaker 14: was there.

3600
03:04:13,959 --> 03:04:17,680
Speaker 7: Yes, exactly, and if the president's yeah, and you know

3601
03:04:18,240 --> 03:04:20,920
Speaker 7: my angle on it is that I ask for higher

3602
03:04:20,959 --> 03:04:26,320
Speaker 7: resolution photos. We get the higher resolution photos and zoom

3603
03:04:26,400 --> 03:04:29,880
Speaker 7: in and sure enough, there is his last name, Hilman.

3604
03:04:30,600 --> 03:04:33,040
Speaker 7: Now all we have is the last name. So there's

3605
03:04:33,040 --> 03:04:36,000
Speaker 7: a lot more work to do. These anti fascists go

3606
03:04:36,080 --> 03:04:40,000
Speaker 7: through military yearbooks. They don't find anything. They go through

3607
03:04:40,080 --> 03:04:43,840
Speaker 7: so many social media accounts, until eventually, one day they

3608
03:04:43,920 --> 03:04:47,560
Speaker 7: see a Facebook account that belongs to a man named

3609
03:04:47,640 --> 03:04:48,400
Speaker 7: Jay Heilman.

3610
03:04:48,879 --> 03:04:51,400
Speaker 14: It's crazy he still had Facebook all these years later.

3611
03:04:51,680 --> 03:04:55,080
Speaker 7: Oh it's it's wild. And there are photos of him

3612
03:04:55,200 --> 03:04:59,560
Speaker 7: in the military being sent overseas somewhere. And then they

3613
03:04:59,600 --> 03:05:02,560
Speaker 7: take no notice of this one particular detail, which is

3614
03:05:02,760 --> 03:05:07,520
Speaker 7: that there is this meme he posts of fucking Tom

3615
03:05:07,600 --> 03:05:13,000
Speaker 7: Hardy from The Dark Knight and he's saying the fire rises, right,

3616
03:05:13,080 --> 03:05:15,840
Speaker 7: it's that meme of him saying the fire rises, which,

3617
03:05:15,879 --> 03:05:18,200
Speaker 7: of course, in like the Dark Knight is supposed to

3618
03:05:18,280 --> 03:05:20,920
Speaker 7: mean like all this like death and destruction is about

3619
03:05:20,959 --> 03:05:23,840
Speaker 7: to commence, Like it's a phrase you hear in fascist

3620
03:05:23,879 --> 03:05:26,240
Speaker 7: circle sometimes kind of us like a half joke. But

3621
03:05:26,640 --> 03:05:29,680
Speaker 7: what was interesting about the meme wasn't so much the

3622
03:05:29,720 --> 03:05:33,440
Speaker 7: meme itself, but where and when Facebook said it was posted.

3623
03:05:34,000 --> 03:05:35,960
Speaker 14: He left the location deatha on it.

3624
03:05:36,200 --> 03:05:39,680
Speaker 7: He left the location on it, which was Charlottesville, Virginia,

3625
03:05:40,000 --> 03:05:44,840
Speaker 7: August twelfth, twenty seventeen. So that is how they unlock

3626
03:05:44,920 --> 03:05:47,119
Speaker 7: the identity of Red Beard. You know, there's a lot

3627
03:05:47,160 --> 03:05:49,320
Speaker 7: more to the story in the book, and I think

3628
03:05:50,320 --> 03:05:54,080
Speaker 7: I will be identifying Red Beard in a news story

3629
03:05:54,200 --> 03:05:56,840
Speaker 7: somewhere soon, so look out for that.

3630
03:05:57,720 --> 03:06:00,440
Speaker 14: I love to hear it. Make Joe Platania answer for

3631
03:06:00,520 --> 03:06:01,760
Speaker 14: his refusal to prosecutes.

3632
03:06:02,080 --> 03:06:02,600
Speaker 7: Yes, yea.

3633
03:06:02,959 --> 03:06:04,720
Speaker 14: And it's not enough to say the victim doesn't want

3634
03:06:04,720 --> 03:06:07,320
Speaker 14: to cooperate, because you don't need victim cooperation to prosecute

3635
03:06:07,360 --> 03:06:09,320
Speaker 14: malicious wounding in the Commonwealth of Virginia.

3636
03:06:09,879 --> 03:06:11,240
Speaker 8: Sorry, Joe, you heard it here first.

3637
03:06:12,640 --> 03:06:14,200
Speaker 14: I was hooting and hollering when I got to that

3638
03:06:14,280 --> 03:06:17,000
Speaker 14: part of the book. I can't believe it because I

3639
03:06:17,080 --> 03:06:20,320
Speaker 14: had heard he had heard through the grape vine that

3640
03:06:20,400 --> 03:06:22,800
Speaker 14: the prosecutor was aware of his identity and had chosen

3641
03:06:22,879 --> 03:06:25,560
Speaker 14: not to prosecute. But I didn't know his identity. So

3642
03:06:25,720 --> 03:06:26,280
Speaker 14: what a thrill?

3643
03:06:26,640 --> 03:06:26,840
Speaker 8: Yeah?

3644
03:06:27,080 --> 03:06:30,400
Speaker 7: Yeah, it was a real journey. My ex at the

3645
03:06:30,480 --> 03:06:32,840
Speaker 7: time joked that there was a third person in our

3646
03:06:32,879 --> 03:06:35,200
Speaker 7: relationship and that person was red Beard, because I was

3647
03:06:35,440 --> 03:06:36,800
Speaker 7: so obsessed with trying to find him.

3648
03:06:37,360 --> 03:06:40,720
Speaker 14: I mean, truly, truly a white whale. Yeah, in I

3649
03:06:40,760 --> 03:06:42,119
Speaker 14: guess several senses of the word.

3650
03:06:43,080 --> 03:06:43,760
Speaker 7: Yeah exactly.

3651
03:06:45,120 --> 03:06:47,120
Speaker 14: But like I said, I promised I wouldn't take up

3652
03:06:47,120 --> 03:06:49,200
Speaker 14: a ton of your time. I'm just so excited about

3653
03:06:49,240 --> 03:06:51,560
Speaker 14: this book, about this story. It's not just for your

3654
03:06:51,640 --> 03:06:54,040
Speaker 14: dad who doesn't know what antiva is. Yes, I thought

3655
03:06:54,080 --> 03:06:56,560
Speaker 14: it was thrilling. I learned a lot about some guys

3656
03:06:56,600 --> 03:06:58,000
Speaker 14: I've been thinking about for years.

3657
03:06:58,720 --> 03:07:01,320
Speaker 7: Right, Yeah, that means the world to me, MOLLI thank you.

3658
03:07:02,160 --> 03:07:05,240
Speaker 7: And you also have been such an important voice in

3659
03:07:05,320 --> 03:07:07,280
Speaker 7: these spaces in helping me out over the year, so

3660
03:07:07,879 --> 03:07:08,520
Speaker 7: I appreciate it.

3661
03:07:08,879 --> 03:07:10,960
Speaker 14: I'm so thrilled. Thank you so much for coming on.

3662
03:07:11,520 --> 03:07:14,760
Speaker 14: People can pre order the book to Catch a Fascist

3663
03:07:14,840 --> 03:07:17,440
Speaker 14: The Fight to Expose the Radical Right by Christopher Matthias.

3664
03:07:18,000 --> 03:07:20,080
Speaker 14: You can pre order it now from Simon and Schuster

3665
03:07:20,240 --> 03:07:23,199
Speaker 14: and it comes out February third. Wherever you buy your books,

3666
03:07:23,640 --> 03:07:26,560
Speaker 14: don't buy it at Amazon. I'm going to make sure

3667
03:07:26,640 --> 03:07:29,080
Speaker 14: my local anarchist bookstore has put it in order for it.

3668
03:07:29,480 --> 03:07:31,560
Speaker 14: You should all do the same. What else do you

3669
03:07:31,560 --> 03:07:33,200
Speaker 14: want to plug? Where can people find you online?

3670
03:07:34,080 --> 03:07:37,760
Speaker 7: Yeah? So I'm freelancing these days for different places. Guardian

3671
03:07:37,959 --> 03:07:40,920
Speaker 7: MS now the Nation Slate, so look out for me there,

3672
03:07:41,360 --> 03:07:44,000
Speaker 7: but you can mostly just find me on Let's Go

3673
03:07:44,120 --> 03:07:48,360
Speaker 7: Matthias on Blue Sky, and I'm still on the Nazi site,

3674
03:07:48,360 --> 03:07:49,600
Speaker 7: but don't really post there anymore.

3675
03:07:49,920 --> 03:07:52,640
Speaker 14: At Let's Go Matthias as well wonderful and like I said,

3676
03:07:52,800 --> 03:07:54,200
Speaker 14: make sure you pre order that book.

3677
03:07:54,280 --> 03:07:55,160
Speaker 15: It is a fun read.

3678
03:07:55,600 --> 03:07:57,560
Speaker 14: Buy a copy for your dad who's scared of Antifa.

3679
03:07:58,480 --> 03:08:00,920
Speaker 7: Yes, please, thank thank you so much, thank you.

3680
03:08:14,520 --> 03:08:18,320
Speaker 13: This is it could happen here Executive Disorder, our weekly

3681
03:08:18,400 --> 03:08:20,720
Speaker 13: news cast covering what's happening in the White House, the

3682
03:08:20,840 --> 03:08:24,119
Speaker 13: crumbling world, and what it means for you. I'm Garrison Davis.

3683
03:08:24,480 --> 03:08:28,279
Speaker 13: Today I'm joined by Mia Wong, James Stout, and Robert Evans.

3684
03:08:28,720 --> 03:08:32,920
Speaker 13: This episode, we're covering the week of January twenty first

3685
03:08:33,120 --> 03:08:39,800
Speaker 13: to January twenty eighth. Massive snowstorm across most of the country,

3686
03:08:40,400 --> 03:08:42,280
Speaker 13: at least the real parts of the country, which is

3687
03:08:42,360 --> 03:08:45,760
Speaker 13: the East coast in the south. Now, and wow, there

3688
03:08:45,840 --> 03:08:47,920
Speaker 13: is a lot of snow. It makes me feel kind

3689
03:08:47,959 --> 03:08:50,879
Speaker 13: of like a penguin just walking off to the mountains

3690
03:08:51,480 --> 03:08:57,520
Speaker 13: by myself, weathering the weather. Finally, I feel akin to

3691
03:08:58,720 --> 03:09:01,879
Speaker 13: the President, who is now so a suicidal penguin.

3692
03:09:02,480 --> 03:09:03,760
Speaker 9: At the wrong end of the globe.

3693
03:09:03,920 --> 03:09:04,160
Speaker 8: Yeah.

3694
03:09:04,760 --> 03:09:07,600
Speaker 13: Yeah, well, you know, as soon as they start the remigration,

3695
03:09:07,920 --> 03:09:12,760
Speaker 13: they're going to be deporting penguins Stuffland Greenland. Yeah, it's

3696
03:09:12,840 --> 03:09:15,879
Speaker 13: held in a military detention camp off of Greenland. Now

3697
03:09:15,959 --> 03:09:19,440
Speaker 13: that we might own a tiny bit of our military base.

3698
03:09:20,200 --> 03:09:22,840
Speaker 13: Still very unclear what the details of that Greenland deal are.

3699
03:09:23,080 --> 03:09:26,520
Speaker 2: No, he just wanted to be able to say he

3700
03:09:26,600 --> 03:09:29,120
Speaker 2: made a deal. And I don't know if it's going

3701
03:09:29,160 --> 03:09:30,959
Speaker 2: to be any different than the status quo was before.

3702
03:09:31,080 --> 03:09:34,240
Speaker 2: But he'll claim victory and so will his supporters, and we'll.

3703
03:09:34,120 --> 03:09:37,400
Speaker 8: All move on as we kind of already have.

3704
03:09:37,959 --> 03:09:40,000
Speaker 2: Yep, there's too much other bullshit going on.

3705
03:09:40,400 --> 03:09:42,120
Speaker 9: That is the motto for twenty twenty six.

3706
03:09:43,400 --> 03:09:48,279
Speaker 13: Some of that bullshit is the third immigration enforcement related

3707
03:09:48,320 --> 03:09:52,840
Speaker 13: shooting in Minneapolis in just three weeks, James, do you want.

3708
03:09:52,720 --> 03:09:53,640
Speaker 8: To start with that?

3709
03:09:54,360 --> 03:09:56,880
Speaker 9: So, yeah, I was in Minneapolis. I was actually just

3710
03:09:57,160 --> 03:10:01,000
Speaker 9: in Minneapolis Airport when this happened. On Saturday of this week,

3711
03:10:01,200 --> 03:10:05,439
Speaker 9: Alex Pretty was shot by two CBP agents in Minneapolis

3712
03:10:05,720 --> 03:10:08,840
Speaker 9: while he was filming an immigration raid in which ICE

3713
03:10:08,879 --> 03:10:12,560
Speaker 9: agents attempted to pursue someone into a donut shop that

3714
03:10:12,640 --> 03:10:15,640
Speaker 9: seemed to have locked the doors. Pretty seemed to be

3715
03:10:16,280 --> 03:10:18,160
Speaker 9: trying to assist a woman who had been pushed to

3716
03:10:18,200 --> 03:10:21,280
Speaker 9: the ground by agents when the agents grabbed him, maceed him,

3717
03:10:21,840 --> 03:10:24,520
Speaker 9: beat him, disarmed him, and then shot him several times.

3718
03:10:24,920 --> 03:10:27,560
Speaker 9: Pretty he was thirty seven. It was a Veterans Affairs

3719
03:10:27,840 --> 03:10:33,160
Speaker 9: icy Unice and when this confrontation with immigration agents began,

3720
03:10:33,840 --> 03:10:37,160
Speaker 9: he was legally carrying a sig P three twenty handgun

3721
03:10:37,480 --> 03:10:40,520
Speaker 9: concealed inside his waistband. I can go on and summarize

3722
03:10:40,560 --> 03:10:42,800
Speaker 9: the video for anyone who hasn't seen it. It's obviously

3723
03:10:42,879 --> 03:10:45,280
Speaker 9: quite distressing, so you know, if you're gonna watch it,

3724
03:10:45,680 --> 03:10:49,000
Speaker 9: just know that you're going to see someone die. Video

3725
03:10:49,080 --> 03:10:52,560
Speaker 9: shows several agents beating Pretty. This one grabs a handgun

3726
03:10:52,680 --> 03:10:57,120
Speaker 9: from his inside waistband holster. Very quickly after this, ten

3727
03:10:57,200 --> 03:11:00,400
Speaker 9: shots are fired by at least two agents. Can here

3728
03:11:00,560 --> 03:11:04,640
Speaker 9: at one point an agent shouting gun, gun, He's got

3729
03:11:04,680 --> 03:11:07,680
Speaker 9: a gun. Yeah, And then in the aftermath, another video

3730
03:11:07,840 --> 03:11:11,720
Speaker 9: shows agents asking where is the gun, So it doesn't

3731
03:11:11,720 --> 03:11:16,120
Speaker 9: appear that the agent who cleared Pretty's gun informed the

3732
03:11:16,200 --> 03:11:17,760
Speaker 9: other agents that that had.

3733
03:11:17,760 --> 03:11:21,560
Speaker 13: Happened, though the agent that first fired at Pretty was

3734
03:11:21,680 --> 03:11:25,360
Speaker 13: standing right behind the agent that disarmed him and is

3735
03:11:25,640 --> 03:11:28,879
Speaker 13: literally like looking down at where the gun is being

3736
03:11:29,000 --> 03:11:33,200
Speaker 13: removed as he then seconds later starts shooting yeah. Preddy

3737
03:11:33,240 --> 03:11:35,800
Speaker 13: falls to the ground, then more agents fire on his

3738
03:11:36,000 --> 03:11:38,080
Speaker 13: body as it lays flat on the ground.

3739
03:11:38,680 --> 03:11:38,920
Speaker 8: Yeah.

3740
03:11:39,360 --> 03:11:43,160
Speaker 9: The CBP initial use of force review, which was sent

3741
03:11:43,240 --> 03:11:47,080
Speaker 9: to Congress today suggested that on Wednesday, Yeah, this is Wednesday,

3742
03:11:47,160 --> 03:11:52,720
Speaker 9: the twenty eighth, two agents fired. So we know at

3743
03:11:52,840 --> 03:11:55,879
Speaker 9: least two agents fired right where it's not entirely clear.

3744
03:11:55,920 --> 03:11:58,279
Speaker 9: I don't think if all of these were CBP agents,

3745
03:11:58,360 --> 03:12:01,440
Speaker 9: but at least one one of the agents who fired

3746
03:12:01,520 --> 03:12:04,320
Speaker 9: shots was an eight year CBP veteran. Then a range

3747
03:12:04,360 --> 03:12:09,640
Speaker 9: safety officer, Greg Bovino has declined to identify them because

3748
03:12:09,840 --> 03:12:10,400
Speaker 9: he said that.

3749
03:12:10,440 --> 03:12:14,280
Speaker 8: Would be doxing. That's not what that word usually means.

3750
03:12:15,000 --> 03:12:19,680
Speaker 9: No, DHS has claimed that Pretty had two extra magazines

3751
03:12:19,720 --> 03:12:22,800
Speaker 9: on his person, but I haven't seen any evidence of that.

3752
03:12:23,160 --> 03:12:25,760
Speaker 9: What they provided was a photograph of a sig P

3753
03:12:25,879 --> 03:12:28,520
Speaker 9: three twenty with a red dot site and a slide lock,

3754
03:12:28,600 --> 03:12:31,400
Speaker 9: backed clearly on the front seat of a vehicle with

3755
03:12:31,520 --> 03:12:32,720
Speaker 9: two charge courts next to it.

3756
03:12:32,840 --> 03:12:32,920
Speaker 8: Right.

3757
03:12:33,000 --> 03:12:36,680
Speaker 9: That's that's not normally how evidence is treated in a crime.

3758
03:12:36,760 --> 03:12:39,360
Speaker 9: That is an unusual way to go about that. But

3759
03:12:39,520 --> 03:12:44,080
Speaker 9: in mild the DHS Secretary Christie Nome has told reporters

3760
03:12:44,120 --> 03:12:47,680
Speaker 9: that Pretty attacked and impeded law enforcement and was brandishing

3761
03:12:48,240 --> 03:12:52,880
Speaker 9: his weapon. Videos don't show that the only time that

3762
03:12:52,959 --> 03:12:55,800
Speaker 9: you see his weapon is when it is removed by

3763
03:12:56,080 --> 03:12:58,360
Speaker 9: the agent who takes it out of this waistband.

3764
03:12:58,400 --> 03:13:01,880
Speaker 13: Pretty appears to be holding his black cell phone for

3765
03:13:02,440 --> 03:13:03,680
Speaker 13: the entirety of this interaction.

3766
03:13:03,959 --> 03:13:05,800
Speaker 9: Yeah, and it's very clear that it's a cell phone,

3767
03:13:05,840 --> 03:13:09,760
Speaker 9: right CBP agents us inches obviously from the phone in

3768
03:13:09,840 --> 03:13:14,360
Speaker 9: his face. Yeah, there is no reasonable claim.

3769
03:13:14,440 --> 03:13:17,760
Speaker 2: Now, as a rule, throughout the interaction, there was never

3770
03:13:17,920 --> 03:13:20,240
Speaker 2: any confusion that would have led them to believe he

3771
03:13:20,280 --> 03:13:22,000
Speaker 2: had a gun in his hand or to be unaware

3772
03:13:22,000 --> 03:13:25,160
Speaker 2: that he had been disarmed. Yeah, there's no argument for that.

3773
03:13:26,200 --> 03:13:28,520
Speaker 9: You can't make a case for that reasonably. People will

3774
03:13:28,520 --> 03:13:29,240
Speaker 9: do unreasonably.

3775
03:13:29,320 --> 03:13:29,840
Speaker 8: I don't care.

3776
03:13:30,400 --> 03:13:34,240
Speaker 9: The allegation that he attacked members repeated by FBI Director

3777
03:13:34,320 --> 03:13:36,880
Speaker 9: Cash Patel in the interview he gave to Fox News.

3778
03:13:37,440 --> 03:13:40,599
Speaker 9: I'm going to give a little video of Nomes claim.

3779
03:13:40,800 --> 03:13:45,080
Speaker 19: This individual impeded the law enforcement officers and attacked them.

3780
03:13:45,920 --> 03:13:48,480
Speaker 19: State the facts as they unfolded on the street today.

3781
03:13:48,760 --> 03:13:52,120
Speaker 19: We were doing a targeted operation against an illegal criminal,

3782
03:13:52,640 --> 03:13:55,840
Speaker 19: and this individual came with a weapon and dozens of

3783
03:13:55,920 --> 03:14:00,240
Speaker 19: rounds of ammunition and attacked them, And these agents took

3784
03:14:00,320 --> 03:14:03,520
Speaker 19: action to defend their lives and to defend the lives

3785
03:14:03,560 --> 03:14:06,080
Speaker 19: of the people around them, and it acted according to

3786
03:14:06,120 --> 03:14:06,760
Speaker 19: their training.

3787
03:14:08,160 --> 03:14:12,720
Speaker 9: CBP Commander at Large potentially no longer Commander at Large,

3788
03:14:13,000 --> 03:14:17,440
Speaker 9: Gregory Bavino, claimed that Pretty had assaulted federal agents, and

3789
03:14:18,120 --> 03:14:22,040
Speaker 9: throughout a press conference at Baveno, Gave referred to Pretty

3790
03:14:22,120 --> 03:14:26,040
Speaker 9: as a suspect and the people who killed him as victims.

3791
03:14:26,680 --> 03:14:31,640
Speaker 9: Vino also claimed that Pretty planned to quote, massacre law enforcement.

3792
03:14:32,440 --> 03:14:36,000
Speaker 11: Was he simply walking by and just happened to walk

3793
03:14:36,080 --> 03:14:38,800
Speaker 11: into a law enforcement situation and try to direct traffic

3794
03:14:38,840 --> 03:14:41,520
Speaker 11: and stand in the middle of the road and then assault,

3795
03:14:41,920 --> 03:14:45,080
Speaker 11: delay and obstruct law enforcement? Or was he there for

3796
03:14:45,160 --> 03:14:49,120
Speaker 11: a reason? Did he fall victim to that violent and

3797
03:14:49,360 --> 03:14:54,039
Speaker 11: heated rhetoric by a mayor Fry, a governor Waltz. Look, Dan,

3798
03:14:54,160 --> 03:14:57,879
Speaker 11: they're trying to portray Board of all agents and ICE

3799
03:14:57,920 --> 03:15:02,800
Speaker 11: agents as Gestapo, Nazi and many other words. Did this

3800
03:15:02,920 --> 03:15:06,480
Speaker 11: individual fall victim as many others have Okay, that one

3801
03:15:06,520 --> 03:15:07,440
Speaker 11: type of heated rhetoric.

3802
03:15:07,520 --> 03:15:09,560
Speaker 15: I want to stay focused on this incident right now,

3803
03:15:09,720 --> 03:15:12,360
Speaker 15: because what you were saying is that he went there

3804
03:15:12,400 --> 03:15:16,720
Speaker 15: to try to stop this law enforcement operation. All of

3805
03:15:16,760 --> 03:15:20,360
Speaker 15: the video that we have seen shows him documenting it

3806
03:15:20,440 --> 03:15:23,240
Speaker 15: with his cell phone, which is a lawful thing to do.

3807
03:15:23,840 --> 03:15:26,280
Speaker 15: And the only time he seemed to interact with law

3808
03:15:26,360 --> 03:15:29,480
Speaker 15: enforcement is when they went after him, when he was

3809
03:15:29,560 --> 03:15:32,119
Speaker 15: trying to help an individual who law enforcement pushed down.

3810
03:15:32,240 --> 03:15:34,600
Speaker 15: So where do you have the evidence to show that

3811
03:15:34,680 --> 03:15:39,879
Speaker 15: he was trying to impede that law enforcement operation.

3812
03:15:41,360 --> 03:15:44,040
Speaker 11: Sure, Dana, First, he was there in the scene. He

3813
03:15:44,240 --> 03:15:48,520
Speaker 11: was in the scene actively impeding and assaulting law enforcement

3814
03:15:48,600 --> 03:15:49,880
Speaker 11: to the place that's not illegal.

3815
03:15:50,320 --> 03:15:53,040
Speaker 15: He wasn't impeding it. He was filming it, which is

3816
03:15:53,120 --> 03:15:55,440
Speaker 15: a legal thing to do in the United States.

3817
03:15:55,480 --> 03:15:59,480
Speaker 11: And Dana, let's don't freeze frame adjudicate this now. He

3818
03:15:59,640 --> 03:16:02,440
Speaker 11: was there for a reason, and that reason was to

3819
03:16:02,560 --> 03:16:08,200
Speaker 11: impede law enforcement too. And here, and here's a good point, Dana,

3820
03:16:08,480 --> 03:16:12,720
Speaker 11: is the fact that de escalation techniques were utilized during

3821
03:16:12,800 --> 03:16:17,119
Speaker 11: this action. Those de escalation techniques, whether it was physically

3822
03:16:17,200 --> 03:16:20,160
Speaker 11: trying to remove them from that law enforcement scene, that

3823
03:16:20,320 --> 03:16:22,440
Speaker 11: active law enforcement scene in which law enforcement.

3824
03:16:22,440 --> 03:16:24,040
Speaker 9: I wanted to include little bit more there because I

3825
03:16:24,080 --> 03:16:26,120
Speaker 9: feel like that's one of the few times we've seen

3826
03:16:26,160 --> 03:16:27,080
Speaker 9: him not just able.

3827
03:16:26,879 --> 03:16:30,199
Speaker 2: To deliver his right where someone's pushed a little Yeah.

3828
03:16:30,080 --> 03:16:31,120
Speaker 9: Exactly, yeah.

3829
03:16:31,640 --> 03:16:33,600
Speaker 12: Well, and there's a thing in the video that I

3830
03:16:33,640 --> 03:16:36,240
Speaker 12: think is really effective where you know, you can hear

3831
03:16:36,400 --> 03:16:38,800
Speaker 12: him lying about the video, and then the video is

3832
03:16:38,840 --> 03:16:42,080
Speaker 12: playing next to it and you can just see what

3833
03:16:42,360 --> 03:16:45,640
Speaker 12: is happening, and then he's just saying shit, Yeah, it's a.

3834
03:16:45,640 --> 03:16:47,480
Speaker 9: Good piece of television news.

3835
03:16:47,520 --> 03:16:47,760
Speaker 8: Gost.

3836
03:16:47,760 --> 03:16:50,879
Speaker 9: That's another worst piece I've seen him saying they used

3837
03:16:50,920 --> 03:16:54,080
Speaker 9: the escalation techniques as you watch, half a dozen guys

3838
03:16:54,240 --> 03:16:56,240
Speaker 9: makes him in the face and then beat him.

3839
03:16:56,440 --> 03:16:57,320
Speaker 8: Yeah it is.

3840
03:16:57,920 --> 03:16:59,840
Speaker 9: I mean, there's this line I think a lot about

3841
03:17:00,120 --> 03:17:02,560
Speaker 9: Chapter seven of nineteen eighty four, which was the party

3842
03:17:02,640 --> 03:17:05,040
Speaker 9: told you not to believe your eyes, and is it

3843
03:17:05,160 --> 03:17:08,440
Speaker 9: was their final most important command. I mean, I don't

3844
03:17:08,520 --> 03:17:10,040
Speaker 9: If this ain't that, then I don't know what is.

3845
03:17:10,400 --> 03:17:13,480
Speaker 13: Yeah, I mean yeah, they don't even try to convincingly

3846
03:17:13,560 --> 03:17:14,520
Speaker 13: lie at this point.

3847
03:17:14,800 --> 03:17:17,640
Speaker 2: Like they just keep to the narrative that has been

3848
03:17:17,720 --> 03:17:18,400
Speaker 2: set at the top.

3849
03:17:18,600 --> 03:17:18,800
Speaker 10: Yeah.

3850
03:17:19,160 --> 03:17:20,640
Speaker 2: Well not even in this case at the top. It

3851
03:17:20,720 --> 03:17:23,720
Speaker 2: was kind of set at like the upper middle ycause

3852
03:17:23,760 --> 03:17:26,440
Speaker 2: the top has been backing off from this narrative at

3853
03:17:26,480 --> 03:17:27,280
Speaker 2: least a little bit.

3854
03:17:27,800 --> 03:17:29,360
Speaker 13: We'll get to the kind of back and forth in

3855
03:17:29,400 --> 03:17:31,880
Speaker 13: a sack. But I mean, it's very clear from this

3856
03:17:32,000 --> 03:17:34,200
Speaker 13: that they just consider blowing a whistle to be impeded,

3857
03:17:34,320 --> 03:17:36,680
Speaker 13: like that's that's all the justification that they need. Stay

3858
03:17:36,760 --> 03:17:39,720
Speaker 13: consider his presence there as long as you are physically

3859
03:17:39,840 --> 03:17:40,400
Speaker 13: presence there.

3860
03:17:40,480 --> 03:17:43,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, anything you do that they don't like is assaulting

3861
03:17:43,120 --> 03:17:44,400
Speaker 2: an officer at this point.

3862
03:17:44,400 --> 03:17:47,480
Speaker 13: Yes, it's kind of a minor point. But also his

3863
03:17:47,600 --> 03:17:49,760
Speaker 13: pronunciation of gestapo.

3864
03:17:49,440 --> 03:17:50,880
Speaker 9: Stopo, he does that every time.

3865
03:17:51,120 --> 03:17:53,440
Speaker 8: It's like, dude, we can we know, we know.

3866
03:17:54,040 --> 03:17:57,400
Speaker 13: Yeah, he's like, he's wearing that coat, he's wearing the

3867
03:17:57,720 --> 03:18:03,200
Speaker 13: fit come on and yeah, no, it's it's pretty insane.

3868
03:18:03,320 --> 03:18:03,480
Speaker 10: Yeah.

3869
03:18:03,800 --> 03:18:06,040
Speaker 2: I love the articles that are like, no, he's just

3870
03:18:06,120 --> 03:18:11,439
Speaker 2: wearing a traditional old style military coat. It's not stuff foker.

3871
03:18:12,560 --> 03:18:12,959
Speaker 8: Guys.

3872
03:18:13,520 --> 03:18:17,120
Speaker 9: Come on, man, I've seen a lot of Border Patrol agents, guys.

3873
03:18:17,400 --> 03:18:20,440
Speaker 9: No one else wears that coat. He picked that coat

3874
03:18:20,520 --> 03:18:22,720
Speaker 9: because of how it looks. Ye, to my knowledge, that's

3875
03:18:22,760 --> 03:18:24,720
Speaker 9: not a uniform piece for the Border Patrol.

3876
03:18:24,800 --> 03:18:27,560
Speaker 2: No, and he's never been in the military. Yeah you

3877
03:18:27,600 --> 03:18:30,280
Speaker 2: know what he is and is a secret police unit anyway.

3878
03:18:30,440 --> 03:18:32,920
Speaker 9: Sorry, Yeah, no, I think it's a good it's worth

3879
03:18:33,040 --> 03:18:36,840
Speaker 9: being that one. I want to talk about this ACLU lawsuit, right,

3880
03:18:37,120 --> 03:18:40,080
Speaker 9: So in sworn testimonies, which are part of this ongoing lawsuit.

3881
03:18:40,240 --> 03:18:43,440
Speaker 9: Multiple witnesses said Pretty did not brandish or draw his

3882
03:18:43,560 --> 03:18:46,520
Speaker 9: handgun quote. I have read the statement from DHS about

3883
03:18:46,560 --> 03:18:48,680
Speaker 9: what happened, and it is wrong. The man did not

3884
03:18:48,760 --> 03:18:50,840
Speaker 9: approach the agents with a gun. He approached him with

3885
03:18:50,879 --> 03:18:53,000
Speaker 9: a camera. He was just trying to help a woman

3886
03:18:53,080 --> 03:18:54,800
Speaker 9: get up, and they took him to the ground.

3887
03:18:55,120 --> 03:18:55,560
Speaker 8: One set.

3888
03:18:55,840 --> 03:19:00,200
Speaker 9: Another witness, a doctor was prevented from performing CPR are

3889
03:19:00,680 --> 03:19:03,000
Speaker 9: quote none of the ICE agents who were near the

3890
03:19:03,040 --> 03:19:07,760
Speaker 9: victim were performing CPR, they said. Agents demanded the physician's license,

3891
03:19:07,800 --> 03:19:08,840
Speaker 9: which evidently they did not have.

3892
03:19:09,040 --> 03:19:09,120
Speaker 13: Right.

3893
03:19:09,160 --> 03:19:11,640
Speaker 9: They just ran out of their house in their pajamas.

3894
03:19:12,000 --> 03:19:14,680
Speaker 9: Their testimony continues, quote, I could tell the victim was

3895
03:19:14,720 --> 03:19:17,880
Speaker 9: in critical condition. I insisted the ICE agents let me

3896
03:19:17,959 --> 03:19:20,440
Speaker 9: assess him. Did They appeared to be operating on the

3897
03:19:20,480 --> 03:19:22,440
Speaker 9: assumption that these people ICE, some of them were CBP.

3898
03:19:22,520 --> 03:19:23,200
Speaker 8: I should just say that.

3899
03:19:23,879 --> 03:19:26,720
Speaker 9: They also noted that agents quote appeared to be counting

3900
03:19:26,800 --> 03:19:31,040
Speaker 9: his bullet wounds. Yeah, Jesus, and there is video that

3901
03:19:31,240 --> 03:19:34,640
Speaker 9: shows him doing bizarre things to his remains that are

3902
03:19:34,720 --> 03:19:37,480
Speaker 9: not within the remit of trauma care or first to aid.

3903
03:19:37,600 --> 03:19:41,440
Speaker 9: In my experience in training, which is pretty significant when

3904
03:19:41,440 --> 03:19:44,080
Speaker 9: it comes to like this exact scenario.

3905
03:19:44,680 --> 03:19:47,480
Speaker 13: The documents that released today said that they placed the

3906
03:19:47,560 --> 03:19:48,920
Speaker 13: chess seals on him.

3907
03:19:48,959 --> 03:19:51,320
Speaker 9: They were placing chess seals on him. Yeah, yeah, that

3908
03:19:51,440 --> 03:19:53,280
Speaker 9: might explain. It looks like that're sort of pulling up

3909
03:19:53,360 --> 03:19:53,920
Speaker 9: on his shirt.

3910
03:19:54,360 --> 03:19:56,440
Speaker 13: I mean, this whole again, this whole incident is very

3911
03:19:57,160 --> 03:20:00,800
Speaker 13: very clearly documented with video multiple angles. After the shooting,

3912
03:20:01,560 --> 03:20:03,959
Speaker 13: an agent is like on top of his body, screaming

3913
03:20:04,080 --> 03:20:06,880
Speaker 13: for scissors to cut off his clothing. Yeah, and then

3914
03:20:07,040 --> 03:20:10,920
Speaker 13: later they placed chess seals. According to that document that

3915
03:20:11,000 --> 03:20:13,440
Speaker 13: was released to Congress. Yeah, we have not to carry

3916
03:20:13,480 --> 03:20:16,039
Speaker 13: scissors in your first day kit when you were in outraualmushes.

3917
03:20:16,160 --> 03:20:17,800
Speaker 13: But mine quimal, I guess.

3918
03:20:17,959 --> 03:20:19,640
Speaker 2: I mean these guys don't know what they were doing.

3919
03:20:19,879 --> 03:20:21,640
Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, exactly, that's the thing, right.

3920
03:20:22,160 --> 03:20:24,520
Speaker 9: Bavina also noted in his press conference that the agents

3921
03:20:24,640 --> 03:20:27,640
Speaker 9: were still at work, but they had been redeployed for

3922
03:20:27,760 --> 03:20:32,600
Speaker 9: their safety. Outside of the Twin Cities. Following the shooting,

3923
03:20:32,760 --> 03:20:35,480
Speaker 9: a vigil was held and there were protests, including some

3924
03:20:35,920 --> 03:20:40,640
Speaker 9: armed presents. In the protests, Minneapolis Police Department attempted to

3925
03:20:41,120 --> 03:20:44,680
Speaker 9: hold the space both to keep the vigil away, and

3926
03:20:44,800 --> 03:20:47,039
Speaker 9: the earlier that day they had refused to leave when

3927
03:20:47,080 --> 03:20:50,160
Speaker 9: told to do so by federal police. Later that night,

3928
03:20:50,320 --> 03:20:55,160
Speaker 9: they deployed extensive lefleithor munitions to clear the vigil.

3929
03:20:55,920 --> 03:20:58,920
Speaker 13: Let's go on ad break and then return to discuss

3930
03:20:59,040 --> 03:21:03,080
Speaker 13: the back. In fourth characterization of the shooting from Trump's cabinet,

3931
03:21:14,840 --> 03:21:19,359
Speaker 13: we are back. The day after the shooting, Cash Pattel

3932
03:21:19,520 --> 03:21:22,360
Speaker 13: went on Fox News to say that it is against

3933
03:21:22,440 --> 03:21:25,519
Speaker 13: the law to bring a firearm to a protest.

3934
03:21:25,800 --> 03:21:27,000
Speaker 8: Nope, here's a clip.

3935
03:21:27,400 --> 03:21:31,440
Speaker 20: I guess Christy said. You cannot bring a firearm loaded

3936
03:21:31,600 --> 03:21:34,600
Speaker 20: with multiple magazines to any sort of protests that you want.

3937
03:21:34,640 --> 03:21:36,920
Speaker 20: It's that simple. You don't have that right to break

3938
03:21:36,959 --> 03:21:39,600
Speaker 20: the law and incite violent That's wrong.

3939
03:21:39,720 --> 03:21:42,520
Speaker 13: In Minnesota, it is not against the law for permit

3940
03:21:42,560 --> 03:21:45,080
Speaker 13: holders to carry a firearm well attending a protest. And

3941
03:21:45,400 --> 03:21:48,840
Speaker 13: it's arguable whether what pretty was doing is even a

3942
03:21:48,879 --> 03:21:54,080
Speaker 13: quote unquote attending a protest. These sorts of spontaneous mobilizations

3943
03:21:54,440 --> 03:21:58,240
Speaker 13: against ice are not like a formalized we are protesting

3944
03:21:58,360 --> 03:22:01,480
Speaker 13: in this location at this point, to protest rally its

3945
03:22:01,600 --> 03:22:04,920
Speaker 13: community mobilizations. The term of protest is going to be

3946
03:22:05,280 --> 03:22:06,480
Speaker 13: applied a little bit loosely.

3947
03:22:07,080 --> 03:22:07,200
Speaker 9: Now.

3948
03:22:07,520 --> 03:22:12,280
Speaker 13: The DJST statement three hours after the shooting made this claim, quote,

3949
03:22:12,760 --> 03:22:15,560
Speaker 13: this looks like a situation where an individual wanted to

3950
03:22:15,640 --> 03:22:20,600
Speaker 13: do maximum damage and massacre law enforcement unquote. This is

3951
03:22:20,720 --> 03:22:24,359
Speaker 13: the phrase that Bavino said verbato at the press conference

3952
03:22:24,400 --> 03:22:28,320
Speaker 13: on Saturday following the shooting. Mm HM Miller said something

3953
03:22:28,400 --> 03:22:32,400
Speaker 13: similar on Twitter as he was tweeting at Democrat politicians. Quote,

3954
03:22:32,760 --> 03:22:36,080
Speaker 13: it would be assassin tried to murder federal law enforcement

3955
03:22:36,480 --> 03:22:41,199
Speaker 13: and a domestic terrorist tried to assassinate federal law enforcement.

3956
03:22:42,520 --> 03:22:44,720
Speaker 13: Christy Nome also had a press conference the day of

3957
03:22:44,840 --> 03:22:48,400
Speaker 13: the shooting where she said, quote, when you perpetuate violence

3958
03:22:48,480 --> 03:22:52,199
Speaker 13: against a government because of ideological reasons and for reasons

3959
03:22:52,240 --> 03:22:55,840
Speaker 13: to resist and perpetuate violence, that is the definition of

3960
03:22:56,040 --> 03:23:00,520
Speaker 13: domestic terrorism. This individual, who came with weapons and ammunition

3961
03:23:00,760 --> 03:23:04,480
Speaker 13: to stop a law enforcement operation of federal law enforcement

3962
03:23:04,520 --> 03:23:11,280
Speaker 13: officers committed an act of domestic terrorism unquote. But by Monday,

3963
03:23:11,800 --> 03:23:16,879
Speaker 13: the White House began softly backtracking previous detests claims about

3964
03:23:16,920 --> 03:23:19,840
Speaker 13: the shooting. Press Secretary Carolyn Levit so that she has

3965
03:23:19,920 --> 03:23:23,600
Speaker 13: not heard President Trump characterized pretty as a domestic terrorist.

3966
03:23:24,280 --> 03:23:27,560
Speaker 13: That same day, Fox and Friends asked DOJ attorney Todd

3967
03:23:27,600 --> 03:23:32,320
Speaker 13: Blanche about whether Preddy committed domestic terrorism, and he replied

3968
03:23:32,600 --> 03:23:32,920
Speaker 13: like this.

3969
03:23:33,240 --> 03:23:35,879
Speaker 21: With all your respects, ser my question is more pointed,

3970
03:23:36,600 --> 03:23:39,480
Speaker 21: do you believe your colleagues may have gone farther? You

3971
03:23:39,640 --> 03:23:43,320
Speaker 21: are an attorney at DOJ. Eighteen US Code twenty three

3972
03:23:43,440 --> 03:23:46,480
Speaker 21: thirty one. It has a legal definition of domestic terrorism,

3973
03:23:46,840 --> 03:23:49,840
Speaker 21: and it doesn't appear to most of the country that

3974
03:23:49,920 --> 03:23:52,680
Speaker 21: have watched the available video. And we'll see if there's

3975
03:23:52,720 --> 03:23:54,600
Speaker 21: bodycam video. I'd love to know if that's going to

3976
03:23:54,640 --> 03:23:56,640
Speaker 21: come out, if there was such a thing, But it

3977
03:23:56,760 --> 03:24:00,000
Speaker 21: does not appear to have met that definition of domestic terrorists.

3978
03:24:00,040 --> 03:24:02,560
Speaker 21: And so I'm just sort of wondering how you in

3979
03:24:02,720 --> 03:24:05,400
Speaker 21: the DOJ are viewing whether your colleagues may have gone

3980
03:24:05,440 --> 03:24:05,800
Speaker 21: too far.

3981
03:24:07,040 --> 03:24:09,879
Speaker 22: Look, don't I don't think anybody thinks that they were

3982
03:24:09,920 --> 03:24:13,040
Speaker 22: comparing what happened on Saturday to the legal definition of

3983
03:24:13,080 --> 03:24:17,640
Speaker 22: domestic terrorism. What we saw was a very violent altercation,

3984
03:24:18,080 --> 03:24:20,840
Speaker 22: and I am not going to prejudge the facts. You're right,

3985
03:24:20,879 --> 03:24:22,400
Speaker 22: there's a bunch of video that's out there.

3986
03:24:22,640 --> 03:24:24,640
Speaker 8: There's a bunch of video that we haven't seen yet.

3987
03:24:24,959 --> 03:24:27,800
Speaker 22: In the minutes leading up to what happened and in

3988
03:24:27,920 --> 03:24:30,480
Speaker 22: what happened afterwards. And you're right to the extent there's

3989
03:24:30,560 --> 03:24:34,680
Speaker 22: bodycam or other videos that witnesses are still providing to us.

3990
03:24:34,879 --> 03:24:39,720
Speaker 22: So I'm not describing it as anything except for a tragedy.

3991
03:24:40,280 --> 03:24:42,120
Speaker 8: That's pretty pretty wild.

3992
03:24:42,360 --> 03:24:46,280
Speaker 13: Two days after, Christina tried to literally give a definition

3993
03:24:46,520 --> 03:24:49,920
Speaker 13: of domestic terrorism at a press conference and then dooj

3994
03:24:50,000 --> 03:24:53,120
Speaker 13: Attorney's just claiming, no, it's not the real legal definition

3995
03:24:53,200 --> 03:24:56,840
Speaker 13: of domestic terrorism. Yeah, this word is just a rhetorical

3996
03:24:56,920 --> 03:24:59,080
Speaker 13: tool for the administration to deploy at well.

3997
03:24:59,080 --> 03:25:01,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, we just we're using it because we killed a

3998
03:25:01,840 --> 03:25:04,000
Speaker 2: guy and we wanted to shut down discussion.

3999
03:25:04,160 --> 03:25:05,000
Speaker 8: Yeah. Yeah.

4000
03:25:05,320 --> 03:25:07,600
Speaker 9: And when we didn't stick the landing because there were

4001
03:25:07,720 --> 03:25:10,760
Speaker 9: multiple angles on video, now we got to find something else.

4002
03:25:11,080 --> 03:25:14,280
Speaker 8: Yeah, And we just did this, Like how many weeks

4003
03:25:14,320 --> 03:25:15,640
Speaker 8: ago was the no?

4004
03:25:15,760 --> 03:25:20,879
Speaker 13: I mean, this whole incident shows how vital documenting interactions

4005
03:25:21,040 --> 03:25:24,880
Speaker 13: like this can be, and how much public opinion is

4006
03:25:24,959 --> 03:25:29,360
Speaker 13: something that is not just fully fully dictated by administration statements,

4007
03:25:29,440 --> 03:25:33,200
Speaker 13: like they tried to deploy a narrative which, after enough

4008
03:25:33,320 --> 03:25:38,760
Speaker 13: circulated documented footage contradicted public opinion of this incident. Formed

4009
03:25:38,800 --> 03:25:42,680
Speaker 13: in pretty strong opposition to the administration's claims.

4010
03:25:42,879 --> 03:25:43,080
Speaker 8: Yeah.

4011
03:25:44,160 --> 03:25:48,600
Speaker 12: Yeah, this has penetrated into a lot of places that are,

4012
03:25:48,959 --> 03:25:53,640
Speaker 12: under ordinary circumstances, either extremely apolitical or very conservative.

4013
03:25:53,879 --> 03:25:54,080
Speaker 9: Yeah.

4014
03:25:54,480 --> 03:25:57,520
Speaker 12: I am trying to remember, honestly, the last event that

4015
03:25:57,600 --> 03:26:02,000
Speaker 12: I saw between this and twenty twenty and the George

4016
03:26:02,000 --> 03:26:05,360
Speaker 12: Floyd uprising that had this kind of penetration into mainstream,

4017
03:26:05,400 --> 03:26:09,480
Speaker 12: non political society. I remember one of the biggest things

4018
03:26:09,520 --> 03:26:12,840
Speaker 12: that I saw was this moment of, oh, actually, this

4019
03:26:13,000 --> 03:26:15,480
Speaker 12: specific shooting has gone to a point where it's reaching

4020
03:26:15,520 --> 03:26:17,600
Speaker 12: people who normally would never hear about this stuff. Was

4021
03:26:18,280 --> 03:26:21,840
Speaker 12: There's an NFL commentary named Kurt Warner who used to

4022
03:26:21,920 --> 03:26:24,960
Speaker 12: be very famous quarterback. The only thing he ever talks

4023
03:26:24,959 --> 03:26:27,840
Speaker 12: about is quarterback play in football. This is the only

4024
03:26:27,920 --> 03:26:30,840
Speaker 12: thing he ever does. I'm not one hundred percent sure

4025
03:26:30,879 --> 03:26:32,960
Speaker 12: about this, but when I look back, I couldn't find

4026
03:26:33,040 --> 03:26:37,040
Speaker 12: him saying anything about George Floyd. And Kurt Warner came

4027
03:26:37,080 --> 03:26:40,960
Speaker 12: out and gave a statement about how this shooting was

4028
03:26:41,480 --> 03:26:43,760
Speaker 12: a horror and that the administration was lying about it,

4029
03:26:44,720 --> 03:26:48,600
Speaker 12: and you saw this sort of rattling through again very

4030
03:26:48,720 --> 03:26:53,840
Speaker 12: very conservative sports circles, which again this NFL's circle, specifically

4031
03:26:53,879 --> 03:26:57,560
Speaker 12: where this kind of stuff never really penetrates this weekends.

4032
03:26:57,760 --> 03:27:01,040
Speaker 12: You know, as as this sort of murder was happening,

4033
03:27:01,360 --> 03:27:04,600
Speaker 12: the NFC and AFC championship games were going on in

4034
03:27:04,640 --> 03:27:06,600
Speaker 12: the sort of immediate wake of this. And these are

4035
03:27:06,760 --> 03:27:08,400
Speaker 12: for people who don't follow football at all. These are

4036
03:27:08,680 --> 03:27:11,040
Speaker 12: after the super Bowl. These are this is the semifinals.

4037
03:27:11,080 --> 03:27:12,800
Speaker 12: The winner of these two games goes to the Super Bowl.

4038
03:27:12,840 --> 03:27:15,760
Speaker 12: These are the second most important games of the entire

4039
03:27:15,920 --> 03:27:22,520
Speaker 12: NFL season. And fans at both of these games booed

4040
03:27:22,680 --> 03:27:26,160
Speaker 12: the national anthem, a thing I have never heard of before.

4041
03:27:26,959 --> 03:27:29,959
Speaker 8: This is a football game. Yeah, that's wild.

4042
03:27:30,080 --> 03:27:34,840
Speaker 12: Yeah, right, like the beginning of most football games, there's

4043
03:27:34,920 --> 03:27:38,440
Speaker 12: a bunch of troops holding the flag and people. They

4044
03:27:38,480 --> 03:27:40,600
Speaker 12: didn't do this in twenty twenty. They were booing the

4045
03:27:40,720 --> 03:27:44,440
Speaker 12: national anthem. So one of these games was being played

4046
03:27:44,440 --> 03:27:46,240
Speaker 12: in Denver and the other one was being played in Seattle.

4047
03:27:46,520 --> 03:27:49,600
Speaker 12: And in the game in Seattle, the Fox broadcast kept

4048
03:27:49,680 --> 03:27:52,400
Speaker 12: cutting out the national anthem because people kept chanting fuck Ice.

4049
03:27:52,840 --> 03:27:55,520
Speaker 12: So they would just literally be cutting the audio anytime

4050
03:27:55,600 --> 03:27:57,760
Speaker 12: that happened. And this just kept happening to the entire

4051
03:27:57,840 --> 03:27:59,800
Speaker 12: course of this I have never seen anything like this

4052
03:28:00,680 --> 03:28:05,560
Speaker 12: breakthrough into sports like this. It's it's been breaking into

4053
03:28:05,640 --> 03:28:07,959
Speaker 12: there's a whole bunch of stories about just random groups

4054
03:28:08,000 --> 03:28:10,680
Speaker 12: on a reddit where it's breaking through into where you're

4055
03:28:10,720 --> 03:28:14,119
Speaker 12: getting statements from like, oh god, I wish I remember

4056
03:28:14,200 --> 03:28:16,039
Speaker 12: who on bluse guys saw this from, but the person

4057
03:28:16,120 --> 03:28:19,640
Speaker 12: who runs the subreddit where that's like playing your cat's

4058
03:28:19,680 --> 03:28:21,320
Speaker 12: but like bongo drums.

4059
03:28:22,800 --> 03:28:23,120
Speaker 8: About this.

4060
03:28:23,280 --> 03:28:26,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm glad they finally spoke up. Honestly, you know,

4061
03:28:27,280 --> 03:28:27,600
Speaker 2: we've all.

4062
03:28:27,600 --> 03:28:31,880
Speaker 9: Been waiting, but like I saw this in spaces where

4063
03:28:31,879 --> 03:28:36,400
Speaker 9: we're like like climbing forums or climbing subreddits.

4064
03:28:36,080 --> 03:28:39,160
Speaker 2: Like no, because they just shot a nurse in the head.

4065
03:28:40,000 --> 03:28:42,720
Speaker 12: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah. This is the second time they

4066
03:28:42,760 --> 03:28:45,080
Speaker 12: did it. And the thing to me that I think

4067
03:28:45,200 --> 03:28:47,440
Speaker 12: is really significant about this happening at NFL games. Right,

4068
03:28:48,440 --> 03:28:51,920
Speaker 12: one of the two teams that was playing in the

4069
03:28:52,000 --> 03:28:54,320
Speaker 12: game in Denver is the New England Patriots. Right, the

4070
03:28:54,360 --> 03:28:56,920
Speaker 12: New England Patriots are famously very very close to Trump

4071
03:28:57,800 --> 03:28:59,959
Speaker 12: as an organization, their owner is very close to Trump.

4072
03:29:00,720 --> 03:29:03,280
Speaker 12: So I had remembered a story from last year about

4073
03:29:03,360 --> 03:29:06,120
Speaker 12: so the Patriots have a jet that is the Patriots

4074
03:29:06,240 --> 03:29:08,120
Speaker 12: Jet that they fly all their players around in that

4075
03:29:08,320 --> 03:29:12,840
Speaker 12: is has giant letters the Patriots on it. Yeah, that

4076
03:29:13,000 --> 03:29:15,120
Speaker 12: is technically run through a charter company. But you know,

4077
03:29:15,200 --> 03:29:16,960
Speaker 12: I remember last year there's a story about how their

4078
03:29:17,040 --> 03:29:19,280
Speaker 12: jet was doing flights to Guantanamo Bay.

4079
03:29:19,720 --> 03:29:22,240
Speaker 2: Sure that makes sense for the Patriots yet yeah, yeah.

4080
03:29:22,160 --> 03:29:22,800
Speaker 8: Yeah, right.

4081
03:29:23,040 --> 03:29:25,160
Speaker 12: This is the kind of organizations that we're dealing with here, right.

4082
03:29:25,200 --> 03:29:27,200
Speaker 12: And while I was looking into the story about the

4083
03:29:27,280 --> 03:29:30,519
Speaker 12: Patriots jet being used to do things to move apparently

4084
03:29:30,680 --> 03:29:35,000
Speaker 12: not detainees to but apparently just military people and supplies,

4085
03:29:35,040 --> 03:29:37,359
Speaker 12: which they do a lot, I found a completely unrelated

4086
03:29:37,400 --> 03:29:41,119
Speaker 12: story about a different Patriots jet in during the Biden

4087
03:29:41,160 --> 03:29:45,119
Speaker 12: administration doing deportation flights to Honduras. And this isn't considered

4088
03:29:45,160 --> 03:29:47,560
Speaker 12: an ideological thing. Oh that's just funny, Like this is

4089
03:29:47,560 --> 03:29:50,040
Speaker 12: the kind of conservatism you're dealing Yeah, you know, And

4090
03:29:50,120 --> 03:29:52,120
Speaker 12: I mean this is technically it's the contractors you're doing this,

4091
03:29:52,240 --> 03:29:54,520
Speaker 12: but you know, it's it's the plan with the Patriots

4092
03:29:54,600 --> 03:29:57,039
Speaker 12: logo on it. And they were doing deportation flights under

4093
03:29:57,360 --> 03:30:00,840
Speaker 12: Biden like four years three or four years ago. And

4094
03:30:01,000 --> 03:30:05,240
Speaker 12: now people are booing the national anthem enchanting fuck Ice

4095
03:30:05,680 --> 03:30:07,640
Speaker 12: a lot of the stuff that we've talked about and

4096
03:30:07,640 --> 03:30:09,680
Speaker 12: we're going to talk about about the way the Trump

4097
03:30:09,680 --> 03:30:11,720
Speaker 12: administration has been backing off of this is because they

4098
03:30:11,800 --> 03:30:16,000
Speaker 12: have been forced to watch the entire country go, holy shit,

4099
03:30:16,120 --> 03:30:18,800
Speaker 12: you just murdered this guy and then lied about it.

4100
03:30:19,600 --> 03:30:21,240
Speaker 12: You just executed him in the street, yeah, and light

4101
03:30:21,280 --> 03:30:21,560
Speaker 12: about it.

4102
03:30:21,680 --> 03:30:21,880
Speaker 10: Yeah.

4103
03:30:21,920 --> 03:30:23,640
Speaker 12: I think the lying and you can just see them.

4104
03:30:23,680 --> 03:30:26,000
Speaker 12: And this is also the second time they've done this

4105
03:30:26,520 --> 03:30:27,600
Speaker 12: in a couple of weeks.

4106
03:30:28,080 --> 03:30:30,480
Speaker 13: Like, the lying thing is, like, I think for a

4107
03:30:30,520 --> 03:30:33,359
Speaker 13: lot of people, that's the really insulting thing. It's obviously

4108
03:30:33,440 --> 03:30:36,280
Speaker 13: a tragedy to have someone be killed by federal law

4109
03:30:36,320 --> 03:30:39,520
Speaker 13: enforcement like this. Yeah, but it's just the blatantness of

4110
03:30:39,760 --> 03:30:42,440
Speaker 13: the lying, I think is what really activated people here.

4111
03:30:42,680 --> 03:30:46,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, because this is for years they've skirted by on

4112
03:30:46,760 --> 03:30:49,320
Speaker 2: the situations like the written house thing where you can

4113
03:30:49,400 --> 03:30:52,920
Speaker 2: kind of see what happens, But depending on what you

4114
03:30:53,040 --> 03:30:56,840
Speaker 2: bring into it ideologically, that can look like two different things, right,

4115
03:30:57,400 --> 03:31:00,560
Speaker 2: depending on where whether you think those protesters areangerous or

4116
03:31:00,640 --> 03:31:02,640
Speaker 2: not or whatever like that. That's a video that like

4117
03:31:02,959 --> 03:31:05,360
Speaker 2: everyone saw the same video and took something different out

4118
03:31:05,400 --> 03:31:07,879
Speaker 2: of it. Yeah, that's not the case with this video,

4119
03:31:08,000 --> 03:31:11,600
Speaker 2: or really with the Renee Good video for most people. Yeah,

4120
03:31:11,800 --> 03:31:14,880
Speaker 2: and it's really jarring for them, most people who were

4121
03:31:14,920 --> 03:31:16,680
Speaker 2: not political, because that's what we're talking about is like

4122
03:31:16,720 --> 03:31:18,760
Speaker 2: the sheer number of people who do not normally wait

4123
03:31:18,840 --> 03:31:21,320
Speaker 2: into this stuff were making a comment. They would see

4124
03:31:21,920 --> 03:31:24,440
Speaker 2: one of these videos that is much more like if

4125
03:31:24,480 --> 03:31:26,360
Speaker 2: you're just kind of coming in and watching it, it's

4126
03:31:26,440 --> 03:31:28,480
Speaker 2: kind of unclear what's happening, and they would go, oh,

4127
03:31:28,560 --> 03:31:30,520
Speaker 2: it's another big com I'm just not going to get

4128
03:31:30,600 --> 03:31:32,520
Speaker 2: involved with it. People are arguing about what this is.

4129
03:31:33,000 --> 03:31:34,959
Speaker 2: Let them argue, I'm going to go on with my life.

4130
03:31:35,360 --> 03:31:38,680
Speaker 2: This is very clear what's happening, very clear that they're lying,

4131
03:31:38,840 --> 03:31:41,600
Speaker 2: and it's just upsetting. It's deeply upsetting to even people

4132
03:31:41,640 --> 03:31:43,320
Speaker 2: who don't normally think about this shit.

4133
03:31:43,680 --> 03:31:45,680
Speaker 12: Yeah, and I think part of that too is also

4134
03:31:46,000 --> 03:31:47,959
Speaker 12: you know, there were a lot of people who didn't

4135
03:31:47,959 --> 03:31:50,480
Speaker 12: get involved with the Renee Good shooting because you know,

4136
03:31:50,640 --> 03:31:53,680
Speaker 12: even then, people were still like, oh, well, maybe it's complicated.

4137
03:31:53,800 --> 03:31:58,000
Speaker 12: But once you've seen the second shooting in two weeks

4138
03:31:58,320 --> 03:32:00,960
Speaker 12: where the line from the administration and he's exactly the same,

4139
03:32:01,040 --> 03:32:03,920
Speaker 12: and you have video images again, Yeah, that's how you

4140
03:32:03,959 --> 03:32:05,960
Speaker 12: get someone like Kurt Warror, who was a faith family

4141
03:32:05,959 --> 03:32:08,200
Speaker 12: football guy. He's very open about being a Christian, is

4142
03:32:08,320 --> 03:32:11,800
Speaker 12: very open about he doesn't talk about politics, but he's

4143
03:32:11,920 --> 03:32:14,280
Speaker 12: very obviously conservative in a way that he doesn't think

4144
03:32:14,400 --> 03:32:17,280
Speaker 12: is political. And he looks at this and goes, holy shit,

4145
03:32:17,320 --> 03:32:19,320
Speaker 12: they murdered this guy and the government's lying about it.

4146
03:32:19,840 --> 03:32:21,880
Speaker 12: And that's a kind of breakthrough moment in all of this.

4147
03:32:22,600 --> 03:32:26,520
Speaker 9: I've seen a lot of stuff from like folks in

4148
03:32:26,840 --> 03:32:30,440
Speaker 9: the gun community, like who you wouldn't normally expect to

4149
03:32:30,440 --> 03:32:33,560
Speaker 9: be critical of the Trump administration being critical. Yeah, because

4150
03:32:33,600 --> 03:32:36,240
Speaker 9: the Trump administration has come out with just like insane

4151
03:32:37,600 --> 03:32:40,600
Speaker 9: they're repeating like anti Second Amendment talking points.

4152
03:32:41,000 --> 03:32:41,200
Speaker 8: Yep.

4153
03:32:41,280 --> 03:32:43,920
Speaker 9: I also saw his name is Tony Thomas, but he

4154
03:32:44,040 --> 03:32:47,720
Speaker 9: was previously the commander of Special Operations Command. Right has

4155
03:32:47,800 --> 03:32:52,480
Speaker 9: been sharing and unfortunately AI quote unquote enhanced photo of

4156
03:32:52,560 --> 03:32:53,160
Speaker 9: the shooting.

4157
03:32:53,440 --> 03:32:53,720
Speaker 17: God.

4158
03:32:54,520 --> 03:32:57,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, that I need to talk a little bit about there,

4159
03:32:57,879 --> 03:32:58,760
Speaker 2: but please continue.

4160
03:32:59,120 --> 03:33:01,959
Speaker 9: Yeah, it's it's remarkable that you've got someone whose job

4161
03:33:02,040 --> 03:33:04,200
Speaker 9: has been killing people for the United States government, right,

4162
03:33:04,480 --> 03:33:07,160
Speaker 9: who've like retired to a role in investment banking. It

4163
03:33:07,240 --> 03:33:12,600
Speaker 9: doesn't normally make statements in public about immigration policy. But like, again,

4164
03:33:12,720 --> 03:33:15,680
Speaker 9: this one is kind of broken containment, right, Like they

4165
03:33:15,760 --> 03:33:18,199
Speaker 9: saw the police shoot a man in the back multiple

4166
03:33:18,280 --> 03:33:22,880
Speaker 9: times in broad daylight from multiple angles, and yeah, this

4167
03:33:23,280 --> 03:33:24,879
Speaker 9: one's been really hard for them, just been.

4168
03:33:25,520 --> 03:33:25,720
Speaker 8: Yeah.

4169
03:33:26,040 --> 03:33:27,480
Speaker 12: One of the things that you know, when you talk

4170
03:33:27,520 --> 03:33:29,680
Speaker 12: about sort of Reddit as a site of this, right,

4171
03:33:29,920 --> 03:33:31,400
Speaker 12: one of the things on the front page A readit

4172
03:33:31,480 --> 03:33:34,080
Speaker 12: for a while that day was just a thing from

4173
03:33:34,120 --> 03:33:37,000
Speaker 12: like r slash picks where it's a picture of a

4174
03:33:37,080 --> 03:33:39,320
Speaker 12: frame in this shooting and then it's a picture of

4175
03:33:39,520 --> 03:33:42,840
Speaker 12: a Nazi officer with a gun to the back of

4176
03:33:42,920 --> 03:33:44,920
Speaker 12: the head of a prisoner they're about to shoot, and

4177
03:33:44,920 --> 03:33:47,440
Speaker 12: it's almost identical frame for frame, And that's the kind

4178
03:33:47,480 --> 03:33:49,360
Speaker 12: of thing that's just going around on like the front

4179
03:33:49,400 --> 03:33:50,040
Speaker 12: page of Reddit.

4180
03:33:50,320 --> 03:33:52,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, part of what I think is happening here is

4181
03:33:52,000 --> 03:33:53,680
Speaker 2: they got very convinced that their ability to kind of

4182
03:33:53,720 --> 03:33:57,360
Speaker 2: just brute force their own reality over what actually happened,

4183
03:33:57,480 --> 03:34:00,360
Speaker 2: and maybe they gambled too hard.

4184
03:34:00,720 --> 03:34:03,080
Speaker 13: Yeah, So much of this story is like the ultimate

4185
03:34:03,120 --> 03:34:07,280
Speaker 13: conservative nightmare of the government physically disarming you than executing you.

4186
03:34:08,120 --> 03:34:10,360
Speaker 13: And that sequence of events is I think also in

4187
03:34:10,440 --> 03:34:13,720
Speaker 13: part what has created this pretty consistent turnarway from the

4188
03:34:13,720 --> 03:34:17,320
Speaker 13: Trump administrations and the dhs' is like initial statement on

4189
03:34:17,520 --> 03:34:21,040
Speaker 13: what happened here, which the administrations themselves have started to

4190
03:34:21,600 --> 03:34:25,320
Speaker 13: roll back on after the public rejected this claim that

4191
03:34:25,400 --> 03:34:27,440
Speaker 13: they kept making, on him being like a terrorist, him

4192
03:34:27,600 --> 03:34:30,480
Speaker 13: intending to massacre law enforcement, all these things that they

4193
03:34:30,520 --> 03:34:34,360
Speaker 13: have no way to actually prove. On Tuesday, Stephen Miller

4194
03:34:34,720 --> 03:34:38,560
Speaker 13: told CNN that they are quote evaluating why the CBP

4195
03:34:38,800 --> 03:34:42,520
Speaker 13: team may not have been following White House approved protocol

4196
03:34:43,240 --> 03:34:45,880
Speaker 13: and that the initial statement from DHS following the shooting

4197
03:34:45,959 --> 03:34:50,840
Speaker 13: was quote based on reports from CBP on the ground quote.

4198
03:34:51,480 --> 03:34:55,240
Speaker 13: On Wednesday, the DHS Spokespersonent Tritich McLoughlin repeated this claim

4199
03:34:55,440 --> 03:34:56,720
Speaker 13: on Fox Business.

4200
03:34:57,200 --> 03:35:01,800
Speaker 19: Secretary Nome accused Alex Prette for being a domestic terrorist.

4201
03:35:02,560 --> 03:35:04,920
Speaker 8: Is the administration standing by that language?

4202
03:35:05,680 --> 03:35:09,400
Speaker 23: So initial statements were made after reports from CBP on

4203
03:35:09,600 --> 03:35:12,600
Speaker 23: the ground that was a very chaotic scene. We know

4204
03:35:12,720 --> 03:35:16,520
Speaker 23: that our ice law enforcement are facing rampant violence against them,

4205
03:35:16,560 --> 03:35:20,240
Speaker 23: a highly coordinated campaign. So that is why this investigation

4206
03:35:20,720 --> 03:35:24,080
Speaker 23: is so important so we can get accurate facts to

4207
03:35:24,160 --> 03:35:25,040
Speaker 23: the American people.

4208
03:35:25,959 --> 03:35:30,160
Speaker 13: Trump has denied that Preddi was acting as an assassin

4209
03:35:30,640 --> 03:35:33,560
Speaker 13: and has called the shooting a quote unquote very unfortunate incident,

4210
03:35:34,040 --> 03:35:36,440
Speaker 13: but he has continued to say that Preddy should not

4211
03:35:36,680 --> 03:35:40,039
Speaker 13: have been carrying a gun. Quote, you can't have guns.

4212
03:35:40,160 --> 03:35:43,359
Speaker 13: You can't walk in with guns, you just can't unquote.

4213
03:35:43,640 --> 03:35:47,880
Speaker 9: Yeah, the Minnesota Gun Owners Caucus has been pretty impressive. Yeah,

4214
03:35:48,080 --> 03:35:52,560
Speaker 9: I'll say that, like generally right, like, especially organized gun

4215
03:35:52,640 --> 03:35:54,680
Speaker 9: owner groups in the United States tend to align very

4216
03:35:54,720 --> 03:35:58,640
Speaker 9: heavily with conservative politics. They have been like reinforcing that

4217
03:35:58,720 --> 03:36:00,760
Speaker 9: what pretty was doing was in no where legal, It

4218
03:36:00,800 --> 03:36:02,280
Speaker 9: should no way need to be being killed.

4219
03:36:02,959 --> 03:36:03,160
Speaker 8: Yeah.

4220
03:36:04,160 --> 03:36:07,000
Speaker 13: As of Wednesday, we do know now that the Border

4221
03:36:07,040 --> 03:36:10,040
Speaker 13: Patrol agents involved in the killing of Alex Preddy have

4222
03:36:10,200 --> 03:36:15,120
Speaker 13: been placed on administrative leave. Around January twenty sixth, Trump

4223
03:36:15,360 --> 03:36:18,800
Speaker 13: struck some kind of deal with local officials, namely Mayor

4224
03:36:18,920 --> 03:36:22,600
Speaker 13: Frey and Governor Tim Walls. Local officials have said that

4225
03:36:22,680 --> 03:36:28,440
Speaker 13: quote unquote some federal agents would begin leaving Minnesota. Bonvino

4226
03:36:28,640 --> 03:36:32,199
Speaker 13: is expected to return to California, with The Atlantic reporting

4227
03:36:32,280 --> 03:36:35,480
Speaker 13: that he's been stripped of his quote unquote Commander at

4228
03:36:35,680 --> 03:36:39,040
Speaker 13: Large title and has been locked out of government social

4229
03:36:39,160 --> 03:36:43,000
Speaker 13: media accounts. Tom Homan has arrived in Minneapolis to take

4230
03:36:43,040 --> 03:36:47,520
Speaker 13: over Immigration enforcement operations and local Minnesota law enforcement have

4231
03:36:47,680 --> 03:36:51,320
Speaker 13: ramped up their policing of protests, especially outside of hotels

4232
03:36:51,440 --> 03:36:54,080
Speaker 13: where ICE and Border Patrol agents have been staying.

4233
03:36:54,800 --> 03:36:57,120
Speaker 12: And it's important to note as as you're seeing a

4234
03:36:57,160 --> 03:36:59,720
Speaker 12: lot of stories about sort of ICE pulling out of Minneapolis,

4235
03:37:00,120 --> 03:37:03,760
Speaker 12: and you know, an administration rolled back because of the

4236
03:37:03,800 --> 03:37:07,120
Speaker 12: sort of Bovino movement. Everyone that I have talked to

4237
03:37:07,240 --> 03:37:09,600
Speaker 12: in Minneapolis, and this is a fairly large number of people,

4238
03:37:09,640 --> 03:37:13,080
Speaker 12: have all told me that everything on the ground remains

4239
03:37:13,120 --> 03:37:15,040
Speaker 12: the same. The raids are continuing, and they want to

4240
03:37:15,120 --> 03:37:18,560
Speaker 12: make sure that everyone understands that the raids are continuing

4241
03:37:18,840 --> 03:37:22,000
Speaker 12: and that the same kinds of things that ICE in

4242
03:37:22,040 --> 03:37:24,800
Speaker 12: the Border Patrol have been doing up until this point

4243
03:37:24,840 --> 03:37:28,840
Speaker 12: are continuing to happen under I guess quote unquote new management.

4244
03:37:29,400 --> 03:37:32,680
Speaker 9: Yeah, I think they may have withdrawn some Border Patrol agents, right,

4245
03:37:32,720 --> 03:37:35,480
Speaker 9: but the bulk of the people they deployed were actually

4246
03:37:35,600 --> 03:37:39,280
Speaker 9: ICE agents. They to my knowledge, have not been withdrawn home.

4247
03:37:39,360 --> 03:37:43,720
Speaker 9: And is not exactly a like a liberal figure when

4248
03:37:43,760 --> 03:37:46,320
Speaker 9: it comes to deportation. To build it mildly, it might

4249
03:37:46,360 --> 03:37:49,200
Speaker 9: be like a change in the outward appearance that the

4250
03:37:49,280 --> 03:37:51,240
Speaker 9: practice of what's going on that has not changed.

4251
03:37:51,760 --> 03:37:54,240
Speaker 13: Do we want to just have any kind of final

4252
03:37:54,400 --> 03:37:58,360
Speaker 13: discussion on that AI enhanced image that's been circulating.

4253
03:37:58,920 --> 03:37:59,680
Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, so.

4254
03:38:00,080 --> 03:38:02,680
Speaker 2: There's an AI enhanced image, and this is when I

4255
03:38:02,760 --> 03:38:05,240
Speaker 2: posted this. I've seen people comment that like, oh, it's

4256
03:38:05,320 --> 03:38:08,720
Speaker 2: more disinformation from the fascist. This is the opposite of that. Yeah,

4257
03:38:08,800 --> 03:38:12,600
Speaker 2: someone AI enhanced a still frame from the video because

4258
03:38:12,600 --> 03:38:14,520
Speaker 2: there's a question as to whether or not when one

4259
03:38:14,520 --> 03:38:17,880
Speaker 2: of the ICE agents disarmed Preddy, did he actit negligently

4260
03:38:18,000 --> 03:38:20,680
Speaker 2: discharge his firearm into the ground, and did that maybe

4261
03:38:20,760 --> 03:38:23,880
Speaker 2: spook them and cause the remaining chain of events. I

4262
03:38:23,920 --> 03:38:26,600
Speaker 2: don't think it's clear. And the video is not super

4263
03:38:26,720 --> 03:38:28,640
Speaker 2: clear as to whether or not the gun is firing.

4264
03:38:28,680 --> 03:38:29,480
Speaker 2: It's kind of grainy.

4265
03:38:29,560 --> 03:38:30,600
Speaker 8: Yeah, we don't know that yet.

4266
03:38:30,879 --> 03:38:34,120
Speaker 2: So and like the new AI enhanced version, you literally

4267
03:38:34,200 --> 03:38:36,520
Speaker 2: see like a tongue of fire coming out of the

4268
03:38:36,600 --> 03:38:39,800
Speaker 2: barrel of the gun and then a full round of

4269
03:38:39,959 --> 03:38:42,360
Speaker 2: five to five six seems to be exiting.

4270
03:38:43,959 --> 03:38:46,280
Speaker 8: We like with the casing. Just make shit up.

4271
03:38:46,560 --> 03:38:49,040
Speaker 2: It looks like it has the casing. It looks not

4272
03:38:49,280 --> 03:38:51,800
Speaker 2: like a firing gun looks And the text on this

4273
03:38:51,959 --> 03:38:54,960
Speaker 2: is this is from the AI info Twitter account. An

4274
03:38:55,040 --> 03:38:57,400
Speaker 2: enhanced video of a man who disarmed Alex Preddy shows

4275
03:38:57,440 --> 03:39:00,360
Speaker 2: the show's gun allegedly misfiring his ice agent with it,

4276
03:39:00,400 --> 03:39:02,240
Speaker 2: which has also been said to have spooked other agents

4277
03:39:02,240 --> 03:39:05,480
Speaker 2: into firing. AI video also enhances the visuals of the bullets.

4278
03:39:05,520 --> 03:39:07,520
Speaker 2: It would be clearly visible to the human eye.

4279
03:39:07,720 --> 03:39:09,640
Speaker 8: It was like, I didn't hit shit, you had to

4280
03:39:09,680 --> 03:39:11,840
Speaker 8: fight you. You had the digital quivalent of a five

4281
03:39:11,920 --> 03:39:13,040
Speaker 8: year old scribbling on it.

4282
03:39:13,760 --> 03:39:15,320
Speaker 2: And you know, I don't know, Maybe I guess this

4283
03:39:15,440 --> 03:39:17,440
Speaker 2: could be them trying to be like, oh, it wasn't

4284
03:39:17,480 --> 03:39:19,840
Speaker 2: the federal agent's fault. It's those damn sig P three

4285
03:39:19,879 --> 03:39:21,439
Speaker 2: twenties that spooked everybody.

4286
03:39:21,920 --> 03:39:24,440
Speaker 8: Yeah, it's it's like number one.

4287
03:39:24,680 --> 03:39:28,279
Speaker 2: AI can't enhance, Yeah things, Nothing can enhance a photo

4288
03:39:28,400 --> 03:39:30,680
Speaker 2: that's not a thing that's real. You can't just like

4289
03:39:31,400 --> 03:39:34,200
Speaker 2: add details to a photo that weren't in in a

4290
03:39:34,280 --> 03:39:36,840
Speaker 2: way that's different from just photos shopping them in. And

4291
03:39:37,040 --> 03:39:40,480
Speaker 2: that's what AI did. Someone said, add visuals of a bullet,

4292
03:39:40,640 --> 03:39:43,240
Speaker 2: and they did, and it's bad. It looks like a

4293
03:39:43,320 --> 03:39:45,640
Speaker 2: fucking sparkler is stuck in the end of a handgun.

4294
03:39:46,280 --> 03:39:49,080
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's just shit like this that's just going

4295
03:39:49,160 --> 03:39:54,000
Speaker 2: to be everything, Like every clash, every murder, every controversial

4296
03:39:54,080 --> 03:39:57,320
Speaker 2: thing that happens, there's immediately going to be a bunch

4297
03:39:57,400 --> 03:40:00,840
Speaker 2: of different AI slot videos and analysis. What scares me

4298
03:40:01,080 --> 03:40:03,200
Speaker 2: most or not even scares me. What I think is

4299
03:40:03,200 --> 03:40:06,520
Speaker 2: the biggest problem isn't even just the straight up disinfo videos.

4300
03:40:06,720 --> 03:40:08,840
Speaker 2: It's the stuff where people are claiming, look, I did

4301
03:40:08,959 --> 03:40:11,840
Speaker 2: some research using this AI, and it revealed this thing

4302
03:40:12,040 --> 03:40:14,280
Speaker 2: that isn't immediately visible to the naked eye, but this

4303
03:40:14,400 --> 03:40:16,680
Speaker 2: is clearly what really went on. Yeah, and how that's

4304
03:40:16,720 --> 03:40:20,640
Speaker 2: going to supercharge fucking conspiracy theories about stuff, and how

4305
03:40:20,640 --> 03:40:22,959
Speaker 2: the response when people are like, but the AI didn't

4306
03:40:23,080 --> 03:40:25,800
Speaker 2: enhance anything, will just be like you're not smarter than

4307
03:40:25,840 --> 03:40:29,280
Speaker 2: an AI, you don't know, Like that's that's the kind

4308
03:40:29,320 --> 03:40:31,520
Speaker 2: of thing where it's just got to be annoying. Like

4309
03:40:31,640 --> 03:40:35,520
Speaker 2: the truth ecosystem is already so damaged. I certainly wouldn't

4310
03:40:35,560 --> 03:40:39,160
Speaker 2: say that this is going to definitely make everything worse,

4311
03:40:39,280 --> 03:40:40,879
Speaker 2: but it's going to make everything more annoying.

4312
03:40:41,680 --> 03:40:41,920
Speaker 9: Yeah.

4313
03:40:42,600 --> 03:40:45,160
Speaker 13: Yeah, I don't think I've seen this image that you

4314
03:40:45,240 --> 03:40:46,920
Speaker 13: were talking about, but I've seen a whole bunch of

4315
03:40:47,040 --> 03:40:51,400
Speaker 13: other like AI enhanced images of the shooting. It's specifically

4316
03:40:51,480 --> 03:40:53,680
Speaker 13: like the moment where where or like around the time

4317
03:40:54,160 --> 03:40:56,879
Speaker 13: that the agents are firing into the back of Pretty,

4318
03:40:56,920 --> 03:41:00,640
Speaker 13: And it's mostly like AI sharpened images, but taken to

4319
03:41:00,800 --> 03:41:04,560
Speaker 13: such an extreme extent that literally one of the heads

4320
03:41:04,800 --> 03:41:07,160
Speaker 13: of the border patrol agents is just missing.

4321
03:41:07,760 --> 03:41:08,080
Speaker 10: You know what.

4322
03:41:08,920 --> 03:41:11,920
Speaker 2: I wouldn't call that enhanced, but I'd say it's an improvement.

4323
03:41:13,320 --> 03:41:14,600
Speaker 13: You have to like kind of like look for it

4324
03:41:14,640 --> 03:41:16,920
Speaker 13: because because of how much movement is in the night,

4325
03:41:17,120 --> 03:41:20,560
Speaker 13: of course, but I've seen I've seen this the AI

4326
03:41:20,720 --> 03:41:24,080
Speaker 13: hnts like like still from the Pink Jacket Lady, oh

4327
03:41:24,240 --> 03:41:28,520
Speaker 13: God of the shooting. I've seen this image spread all

4328
03:41:28,640 --> 03:41:31,800
Speaker 13: around by by people showing like how how like brutal

4329
03:41:31,879 --> 03:41:35,040
Speaker 13: this looks, and it you don't need to spread this

4330
03:41:35,200 --> 03:41:38,920
Speaker 13: AI sharpened version with the with the head missing, like

4331
03:41:39,160 --> 03:41:42,199
Speaker 13: there is like regular skills that maybe are a little

4332
03:41:42,200 --> 03:41:44,960
Speaker 13: bit more fuzzy, but they actually are are real. And

4333
03:41:45,080 --> 03:41:48,320
Speaker 13: you've seen a few other like AI altered images spreading

4334
03:41:48,800 --> 03:41:52,160
Speaker 13: around around this shooting. Specifically, there's been like AI altered

4335
03:41:52,200 --> 03:41:55,640
Speaker 13: images of Alex Pretty that like slightly changes his like

4336
03:41:55,720 --> 03:41:59,200
Speaker 13: facial proportions that have been used at some like memorials

4337
03:41:59,240 --> 03:42:01,880
Speaker 13: have been have been running on the internet, and that

4338
03:42:02,040 --> 03:42:05,480
Speaker 13: sort of stuff has been incredibly frustrating just to see

4339
03:42:05,520 --> 03:42:09,160
Speaker 13: the sort of proliferation of these of these AI images

4340
03:42:09,240 --> 03:42:10,279
Speaker 13: into like the news cycle.

4341
03:42:10,760 --> 03:42:14,320
Speaker 2: I shared the enhanced image that looks really bad. It's

4342
03:42:14,440 --> 03:42:15,000
Speaker 2: really bad.

4343
03:42:15,640 --> 03:42:18,160
Speaker 8: That's like, that's like, wow, I've not seen that. Yeah,

4344
03:42:18,400 --> 03:42:20,880
Speaker 8: it's like a kidergartender. It's unreal.

4345
03:42:21,160 --> 03:42:22,400
Speaker 13: You don't need to do this like that. People that

4346
03:42:22,440 --> 03:42:25,320
Speaker 13: have seen the footage knows what happened. You don't need

4347
03:42:25,360 --> 03:42:27,320
Speaker 13: to spread these fake images like public opinion is already

4348
03:42:27,360 --> 03:42:27,720
Speaker 13: formed on this.

4349
03:42:27,959 --> 03:42:28,160
Speaker 8: Yeah.

4350
03:42:28,440 --> 03:42:30,240
Speaker 13: Well we'll go on ad break again, but I think

4351
03:42:30,320 --> 03:42:33,280
Speaker 13: to close this section, I'll play the short clip from

4352
03:42:34,160 --> 03:42:38,600
Speaker 13: the Minnesota timber Wolves game, which is which is a

4353
03:42:38,640 --> 03:42:42,360
Speaker 13: basketball game, I believe, Yeah, which they held a moment

4354
03:42:42,400 --> 03:42:46,600
Speaker 13: of silence for pretty and people chanted Towards the end,

4355
03:42:46,840 --> 03:42:48,879
Speaker 13: I'll shorten the moment of silence.

4356
03:42:48,959 --> 03:42:51,680
Speaker 8: For the audience, but you can take a listen.

4357
03:42:51,800 --> 03:42:55,200
Speaker 10: Here are the tragic laws of Alex Purty that occurred

4358
03:42:55,280 --> 03:42:59,959
Speaker 10: yesterday in Minneapolis. We extend our love, support and heartfields

4359
03:43:00,000 --> 03:43:03,680
Speaker 10: some of these two Alex's family friends in our community

4360
03:43:03,800 --> 03:43:07,600
Speaker 10: during this difficult time. Please join us in honoring the

4361
03:43:07,720 --> 03:43:11,359
Speaker 10: life and memory of Alex Pritty with a moment of silence.

4362
03:43:32,760 --> 03:43:37,520
Speaker 13: All right, we're back. After the shooting. On Saturday, Chuck

4363
03:43:37,640 --> 03:43:41,920
Speaker 13: Schumer said that Senate Democrats would not be advancing a

4364
03:43:42,080 --> 03:43:46,840
Speaker 13: House approved appropriations bill with the currently included DAHS funding

4365
03:43:47,440 --> 03:43:50,560
Speaker 13: Right now. The Senate is considering a six bill spending

4366
03:43:50,640 --> 03:43:53,080
Speaker 13: package that was narrowly approved by the House thanks to

4367
03:43:53,120 --> 03:43:57,080
Speaker 13: seven Democrats, and now Senadems are seeking to separate out

4368
03:43:57,320 --> 03:44:01,960
Speaker 13: the DHS bill and advance the five others. These six

4369
03:44:02,080 --> 03:44:05,280
Speaker 13: annual spending bills are set to expire on January thirty first.

4370
03:44:05,959 --> 03:44:08,560
Speaker 13: If at least some Democrats don't sign on to the

4371
03:44:08,640 --> 03:44:11,760
Speaker 13: bills by Friday, there will be a partial government shutdown

4372
03:44:12,280 --> 03:44:16,480
Speaker 13: on Wednesday. Schumer reiterated, quote until ICE is properly rained

4373
03:44:16,520 --> 03:44:21,040
Speaker 13: in and overhauled legislatively, the DHS funding bill doesn't have

4374
03:44:21,240 --> 03:44:25,760
Speaker 13: the votes to pass the Senate unquote. Possible immigration enforcement

4375
03:44:25,840 --> 03:44:29,400
Speaker 13: concessions that Democrats are pushing for include, but are not

4376
03:44:29,480 --> 03:44:34,640
Speaker 13: limited to, independent investigations into the recent shootings, mandating judicial

4377
03:44:34,680 --> 03:44:39,359
Speaker 13: warrants for immigration arrests, mandating body cams, requiring agent identification,

4378
03:44:39,720 --> 03:44:44,200
Speaker 13: no masks, no arrest quotas, no roving patrols and restricting

4379
03:44:44,400 --> 03:44:46,879
Speaker 13: border patrol agents to the US border.

4380
03:44:47,640 --> 03:44:50,400
Speaker 9: Yeah, so I want to address I've actually addressed the

4381
03:44:50,520 --> 03:44:54,320
Speaker 9: roving patrols before, and that the evidence standards for stops

4382
03:44:54,360 --> 03:44:55,840
Speaker 9: on those patrols. I'm not going to do that, but

4383
03:44:55,920 --> 03:44:58,600
Speaker 9: I do want to address this last one right with

4384
03:44:58,760 --> 03:45:02,680
Speaker 9: the quote unquote US border. So in the statute, border

4385
03:45:02,720 --> 03:45:06,440
Speaker 9: patrol is supposed to operate within a reasonable distance of

4386
03:45:06,520 --> 03:45:09,200
Speaker 9: the United States border, which they interpret to be a

4387
03:45:09,320 --> 03:45:12,960
Speaker 9: one hundred mile distance. Now, when you are thinking of border,

4388
03:45:13,120 --> 03:45:15,200
Speaker 9: you might be thinking of land borders, but remember this

4389
03:45:15,360 --> 03:45:19,320
Speaker 9: also includes ocean borders. They interpret the Great Lakes to

4390
03:45:19,400 --> 03:45:23,320
Speaker 9: be international waterways, and thus it begins one hundred miles

4391
03:45:23,400 --> 03:45:26,720
Speaker 9: from the shore of the Great Lakes. For context, That

4392
03:45:26,800 --> 03:45:30,879
Speaker 9: still doesn't get you into Minneapolis, right, You're looking at

4393
03:45:30,920 --> 03:45:32,880
Speaker 9: a bit further. One hundred and fifty miles was the

4394
03:45:32,920 --> 03:45:35,400
Speaker 9: shortest line I could draw on a map. People seem

4395
03:45:35,440 --> 03:45:40,279
Speaker 9: to be operating under the misapprehension that this includes airports

4396
03:45:40,400 --> 03:45:44,000
Speaker 9: and it does not. And I keep seeing this repeated online,

4397
03:45:44,040 --> 03:45:46,600
Speaker 9: and then people keep telling me the statue is actually

4398
03:45:46,840 --> 03:45:49,640
Speaker 9: very clear on what does and does not constitute a border,

4399
03:45:49,720 --> 03:45:52,720
Speaker 9: and it has talked about external borders and airports are

4400
03:45:52,800 --> 03:45:56,080
Speaker 9: not included in this. Border Patrol does not operate within

4401
03:45:56,120 --> 03:45:58,680
Speaker 9: one hundred mile radius of every international airport in the

4402
03:45:58,800 --> 03:45:59,440
Speaker 9: United States.

4403
03:46:00,280 --> 03:46:03,200
Speaker 13: Really unclear if Democrats will be able to get some

4404
03:46:03,360 --> 03:46:07,199
Speaker 13: of these things. Obviously, pushing for more training has its limits.

4405
03:46:07,440 --> 03:46:10,400
Speaker 13: The people involved in the shooting had years and years

4406
03:46:10,440 --> 03:46:13,400
Speaker 13: of training and gave the training. In some case, they

4407
03:46:13,480 --> 03:46:15,680
Speaker 13: were doing what they were trained to do. Yeah, but

4408
03:46:15,879 --> 03:46:18,800
Speaker 13: there's other stuff in here, like like mandating body cams,

4409
03:46:18,879 --> 03:46:23,000
Speaker 13: which though Border Patrol currently has body cams. ICE in

4410
03:46:23,000 --> 03:46:25,240
Speaker 13: Border Patrol they have body cams, they're not required to

4411
03:46:25,280 --> 03:46:27,480
Speaker 13: always have them on. This will be seeking to change that.

4412
03:46:27,959 --> 03:46:32,200
Speaker 13: Other things like requiring the identification of agents deployed, not

4413
03:46:32,360 --> 03:46:36,920
Speaker 13: wearing masks, not having arrest quotas. These would significantly change

4414
03:46:37,000 --> 03:46:39,920
Speaker 13: the way that ICE operates on the ground. Possibly the

4415
03:46:40,000 --> 03:46:43,880
Speaker 13: most important thing that they are seeking here is the

4416
03:46:44,000 --> 03:46:47,560
Speaker 13: emphasis on judicial wards as opposed to this administrative warrant

4417
03:46:48,160 --> 03:46:51,200
Speaker 13: that ICE has been using as its primary justification the

4418
03:46:51,360 --> 03:46:52,080
Speaker 13: past few months.

4419
03:46:52,440 --> 03:46:54,560
Speaker 9: I think we should refer to those I've been called

4420
03:46:54,640 --> 03:46:56,280
Speaker 9: the ad ministry of warrants. I think a better I

4421
03:46:56,320 --> 03:46:59,120
Speaker 9: guess down to use is the form two fifteen, because

4422
03:46:59,160 --> 03:47:01,520
Speaker 9: that's what it is, a form that they filled out

4423
03:47:01,680 --> 03:47:04,760
Speaker 9: right like it. It's not a warrant in any meaningful

4424
03:47:04,840 --> 03:47:05,560
Speaker 9: sense of the word.

4425
03:47:05,720 --> 03:47:05,920
Speaker 8: Yeah.

4426
03:47:06,040 --> 03:47:08,120
Speaker 9: But yeah, I'm just noting that because that's a change

4427
03:47:08,160 --> 03:47:09,600
Speaker 9: I'm going to be trying to implement in my work

4428
03:47:09,640 --> 03:47:10,120
Speaker 9: going forward.

4429
03:47:10,720 --> 03:47:13,560
Speaker 13: The last Minneapolis related story for this episode, which is

4430
03:47:14,360 --> 03:47:17,640
Speaker 13: mostly Minneapolis episode I Guess Yeah, is based on a

4431
03:47:17,760 --> 03:47:21,480
Speaker 13: CNN report that has claimed that federal agents encountered Alex

4432
03:47:21,520 --> 03:47:25,520
Speaker 13: Pretty a week prior to killing him. Pretty is said

4433
03:47:25,520 --> 03:47:27,600
Speaker 13: to have been driving and stopped his car when he

4434
03:47:27,720 --> 03:47:31,480
Speaker 13: witnessed ICE agents chasing a family on foot. Pretty began

4435
03:47:31,600 --> 03:47:34,600
Speaker 13: shouting and blowing a whistle before agents tackled Pretty and

4436
03:47:34,720 --> 03:47:37,840
Speaker 13: broke one of his ribs. Party was later released on

4437
03:47:37,959 --> 03:47:40,240
Speaker 13: the scene. DHS has told CNN that they have no

4438
03:47:40,320 --> 03:47:43,400
Speaker 13: record on this incident, though an anonymous source told CNN

4439
03:47:43,720 --> 03:47:47,680
Speaker 13: that Pretty was a known and identified protester to federal

4440
03:47:47,879 --> 03:47:52,680
Speaker 13: officials on the ground, quoting CNN quote. Earlier this month,

4441
03:47:52,720 --> 03:47:55,680
Speaker 13: the DHS official in Minneapolis sent a memo to Immigrations

4442
03:47:55,680 --> 03:47:59,640
Speaker 13: and Customers Enforcement, Homeland Security Investigations officers assigned to the state,

4443
03:48:00,000 --> 03:48:02,720
Speaker 13: and a temporary duty asking them to use a form

4444
03:48:02,959 --> 03:48:08,160
Speaker 13: to input information on protesters and agitators. It is unclear

4445
03:48:08,280 --> 03:48:11,440
Speaker 13: whether the new intake form was used to share Pretty's information.

4446
03:48:11,959 --> 03:48:14,640
Speaker 13: It's also not clear whether federal agents who encountered Pretty

4447
03:48:14,720 --> 03:48:17,640
Speaker 13: on Saturday recognized him before they confronted him.

4448
03:48:19,120 --> 03:48:23,400
Speaker 9: Yeah, it's definitely HSI that has been doing the federal

4449
03:48:23,480 --> 03:48:27,680
Speaker 9: stuff that involves citizens, I guess, right, like when they

4450
03:48:27,720 --> 03:48:30,480
Speaker 9: are investigating detaining people. I know Pam Bondi is there

4451
03:48:30,520 --> 03:48:33,959
Speaker 9: today again and it has posted pictures of people who

4452
03:48:34,000 --> 03:48:37,240
Speaker 9: are detained with HSI officers, which is not a usual

4453
03:48:37,360 --> 03:48:42,600
Speaker 9: thing to do. But yeah, HSI, for whatever reason, they're

4454
03:48:42,680 --> 03:48:47,680
Speaker 9: kind of using as their like surrogate FBI in these instances.

4455
03:48:48,280 --> 03:48:50,920
Speaker 13: Jason, you can also speak on the sort of like

4456
03:48:51,000 --> 03:48:56,000
Speaker 13: surveillance of protesters quote unquote agitators that Feds have been

4457
03:48:56,080 --> 03:48:58,280
Speaker 13: doing on the ground based on what you saw in Minneapolis.

4458
03:48:58,640 --> 03:48:59,640
Speaker 8: Yeah, that's thank you, Gay.

4459
03:48:59,680 --> 03:49:01,920
Speaker 9: Yeah, So, like I was at the Whipple Building, right,

4460
03:49:01,920 --> 03:49:04,440
Speaker 9: the Whipple Building being the federal building in Minneapolis where

4461
03:49:04,480 --> 03:49:06,920
Speaker 9: they are taking people who are being detained and where

4462
03:49:07,040 --> 03:49:09,560
Speaker 9: ICE and CBP are deploying out of every day, right,

4463
03:49:09,800 --> 03:49:11,360
Speaker 9: I would say there because there was a protest on

4464
03:49:11,440 --> 03:49:14,080
Speaker 9: Friday as part of a general strike, and I noticed

4465
03:49:14,840 --> 03:49:17,440
Speaker 9: they look like CBPO ice right then they had like

4466
03:49:18,280 --> 03:49:20,400
Speaker 9: what I would describe with tactical helmets and gear on,

4467
03:49:20,560 --> 03:49:25,000
Speaker 9: but using DSLR cameras to take pictures of people protesting.

4468
03:49:25,520 --> 03:49:27,920
Speaker 9: They were in vehicles and they were shooting. I can't

4469
03:49:27,920 --> 03:49:30,000
Speaker 9: remember they had the door or the window to allow

4470
03:49:30,040 --> 03:49:33,440
Speaker 9: them to take photographs. But I noticed, like that is

4471
03:49:33,480 --> 03:49:37,760
Speaker 9: an effort at surveillance, right, It is not unreasonable. I know, Garrison,

4472
03:49:37,800 --> 03:49:40,160
Speaker 9: you also have this video which happened in Maine, right

4473
03:49:40,240 --> 03:49:42,400
Speaker 9: of an agent more or less saying this, But it's

4474
03:49:42,520 --> 03:49:45,480
Speaker 9: not unreasonable to think that there is surveillance of people

4475
03:49:45,480 --> 03:49:48,200
Speaker 9: who are engaging in First Amendment protected activities.

4476
03:49:49,040 --> 03:49:52,280
Speaker 13: Yes, and there has been some desire among ICE officials,

4477
03:49:52,320 --> 03:49:54,680
Speaker 13: including Tom Hollman, who went on Fox News earlier this

4478
03:49:54,800 --> 03:49:58,080
Speaker 13: month to say that he's pushing for a database quote

4479
03:49:58,200 --> 03:50:00,840
Speaker 13: where those people that are arrested for an interference, impeding,

4480
03:50:00,920 --> 03:50:03,760
Speaker 13: and assault, we're going to make them famous unquote. So

4481
03:50:03,920 --> 03:50:07,120
Speaker 13: this news that Alex Freddy had been previously identified in

4482
03:50:07,200 --> 03:50:11,400
Speaker 13: some way by federal law enforcement follows an incident last

4483
03:50:11,560 --> 03:50:15,520
Speaker 13: Friday where a federal agent in Maine photographed a legal

4484
03:50:15,600 --> 03:50:19,320
Speaker 13: observer's car and said, quote, we have a nice little database,

4485
03:50:19,360 --> 03:50:22,280
Speaker 13: and you're now considered a domestic terrorist. I'll play this

4486
03:50:22,360 --> 03:50:22,800
Speaker 13: clip here.

4487
03:50:23,240 --> 03:50:24,840
Speaker 8: It's not illegal to record.

4488
03:50:26,200 --> 03:50:26,600
Speaker 10: Exactly.

4489
03:50:26,920 --> 03:50:28,800
Speaker 8: Yeah, that's what we're doing. Yeah, why are you taking

4490
03:50:28,800 --> 03:50:31,480
Speaker 8: my information down? Because we have a nice little database.

4491
03:50:31,640 --> 03:50:36,600
Speaker 8: Oh good, and now you're considerable domestic terrorists. So we're

4492
03:50:36,720 --> 03:50:37,640
Speaker 8: videotaping you.

4493
03:50:39,040 --> 03:50:39,960
Speaker 14: Are you crazy?

4494
03:50:42,400 --> 03:50:45,520
Speaker 13: Georgia McLaughlin has told CNN that there is quote no

4495
03:50:45,880 --> 03:50:49,480
Speaker 13: database of quote unquote domestic terrorists run by the Department

4496
03:50:49,560 --> 03:50:51,480
Speaker 13: of Homeland Security unquote.

4497
03:50:51,960 --> 03:50:52,160
Speaker 8: Yeah.

4498
03:50:52,600 --> 03:50:54,920
Speaker 12: I want to say something about this main video, which

4499
03:50:54,960 --> 03:50:56,920
Speaker 12: is that I've been seeing a lot of people circulating

4500
03:50:57,000 --> 03:51:00,800
Speaker 12: this is Oh, there's new repression tactics app here. They're

4501
03:51:00,800 --> 03:51:02,760
Speaker 12: going to show up to people's houses. This has been happening.

4502
03:51:03,440 --> 03:51:05,400
Speaker 12: I mean, I know it was happening in Chicago. It

4503
03:51:05,560 --> 03:51:08,280
Speaker 12: probably was happening in la I just don't remember off

4504
03:51:08,320 --> 03:51:08,920
Speaker 12: the top of my head.

4505
03:51:08,960 --> 03:51:10,040
Speaker 8: But the stuff that's.

4506
03:51:10,080 --> 03:51:12,840
Speaker 12: Happening here where these people take pictures of your face

4507
03:51:12,920 --> 03:51:14,600
Speaker 12: is not new at all. It's not some kind of

4508
03:51:14,680 --> 03:51:18,640
Speaker 12: new innovation in these repression tactics. Like, obviously be careful,

4509
03:51:18,720 --> 03:51:22,080
Speaker 12: but this is not a reason that everyone suddenly needs

4510
03:51:22,160 --> 03:51:24,280
Speaker 12: to be afraid that there's like a giant crackdown coming.

4511
03:51:24,320 --> 03:51:26,360
Speaker 12: They've been doing this the whole time, and so far

4512
03:51:26,480 --> 03:51:30,840
Speaker 12: it really hasn't like it sucks, but it hasn't stopped Minneapolis,

4513
03:51:30,880 --> 03:51:31,800
Speaker 12: hasn'toped Chicago.

4514
03:51:32,200 --> 03:51:35,360
Speaker 13: No, they're trying to intimidate you stop doing this like

4515
03:51:35,480 --> 03:51:38,600
Speaker 13: that is the point of this agent walking by and

4516
03:51:38,720 --> 03:51:40,880
Speaker 13: joking about how you're now a domestic terrorist.

4517
03:51:41,000 --> 03:51:42,600
Speaker 8: Yeah, because that's not actually real.

4518
03:51:42,680 --> 03:51:45,680
Speaker 13: That is a way to scare you into not showing up,

4519
03:51:45,800 --> 03:51:48,000
Speaker 13: based on the u based on the idea that if

4520
03:51:48,040 --> 03:51:49,880
Speaker 13: you do, they'll take a picture of you, and now

4521
03:51:49,920 --> 03:51:52,280
Speaker 13: you get added to this domestic terrorist database.

4522
03:51:52,440 --> 03:51:52,640
Speaker 8: Yeah.

4523
03:51:53,000 --> 03:51:56,240
Speaker 13: Is it possible that they're making like some kind of

4524
03:51:56,320 --> 03:51:59,680
Speaker 13: catalog of pictures of protesters that they can maybe use

4525
03:52:00,080 --> 03:52:02,880
Speaker 13: for reference in the future to build a case against someone,

4526
03:52:03,160 --> 03:52:04,680
Speaker 13: or if they arrest someone, they can look to see

4527
03:52:04,760 --> 03:52:07,800
Speaker 13: if they've been at previous protests. No, that's not impossible.

4528
03:52:07,920 --> 03:52:10,800
Speaker 13: That is something that they've been doing for quite a while.

4529
03:52:10,840 --> 03:52:13,200
Speaker 13: It is sudden that anti fascists to do against like

4530
03:52:13,280 --> 03:52:15,160
Speaker 13: Proud Boys back in the day, where you just document

4531
03:52:15,240 --> 03:52:17,600
Speaker 13: a lot of people at a protest and then maybe

4532
03:52:17,680 --> 03:52:20,800
Speaker 13: eventually the information will become useful. Right, that is not

4533
03:52:21,000 --> 03:52:24,440
Speaker 13: like surprising, but like I've seen some pretty outrageous claims

4534
03:52:24,480 --> 03:52:28,160
Speaker 13: going viral that, like after Preddy had this encounter with

4535
03:52:28,280 --> 03:52:30,960
Speaker 13: law enforcement previously where they broke his rib that Preddy

4536
03:52:31,080 --> 03:52:34,440
Speaker 13: was then specifically targeted in the following weeks, Like.

4537
03:52:34,480 --> 03:52:35,520
Speaker 8: There is no information for that.

4538
03:52:35,680 --> 03:52:37,120
Speaker 9: Yeah, we have no evidence to prove that.

4539
03:52:37,280 --> 03:52:40,400
Speaker 13: There's no information that this database led to him being

4540
03:52:40,440 --> 03:52:43,360
Speaker 13: intentionally targeted by federal agents on the ground that is

4541
03:52:43,480 --> 03:52:44,760
Speaker 13: that is just speculation at this point.

4542
03:52:44,840 --> 03:52:46,840
Speaker 12: Yeah, there's no evidence of that, and there's no evidence

4543
03:52:46,880 --> 03:52:49,560
Speaker 12: that this is like a new kind of campaigner repression.

4544
03:52:49,760 --> 03:52:52,000
Speaker 12: And I want to be very clear about this. If

4545
03:52:52,080 --> 03:52:54,880
Speaker 12: you are spreading this as a you need to be

4546
03:52:55,000 --> 03:52:57,600
Speaker 12: afraid now because there's a new thing that's happening. You

4547
03:52:57,720 --> 03:53:01,040
Speaker 12: are doing their job. You are spreading the fear that

4548
03:53:01,200 --> 03:53:03,280
Speaker 12: this is an intimidation that this is designed to do,

4549
03:53:03,480 --> 03:53:04,600
Speaker 12: so please stop doing this.

4550
03:53:05,360 --> 03:53:08,200
Speaker 9: Yeah, I think, like I understand that for a lot

4551
03:53:08,240 --> 03:53:12,520
Speaker 9: of people, any form of activism is very new and

4552
03:53:12,960 --> 03:53:16,400
Speaker 9: everything seems scary, But this is this is one of

4553
03:53:16,440 --> 03:53:19,400
Speaker 9: those times when you need to check what you're doing because,

4554
03:53:19,560 --> 03:53:21,800
Speaker 9: as Mia said, right, this has. The legal term is

4555
03:53:21,840 --> 03:53:25,480
Speaker 9: a chilling effect. Right, like the government generally courts a fan.

4556
03:53:25,560 --> 03:53:27,800
Speaker 9: The government should do not should not do things that

4557
03:53:27,960 --> 03:53:30,720
Speaker 9: have a chilling effect on First Amendment protected to speak.

4558
03:53:30,800 --> 03:53:34,120
Speaker 9: That's absolutely what the government is trying to do. You

4559
03:53:34,360 --> 03:53:36,280
Speaker 9: don't have to help them or not the government, but

4560
03:53:36,320 --> 03:53:39,280
Speaker 9: that particular agent, I should say, acting at work saying

4561
03:53:39,280 --> 03:53:41,160
Speaker 9: he's building a database, right, that is what that is

4562
03:53:41,200 --> 03:53:42,960
Speaker 9: trying to do is to have a chilling effect.

4563
03:53:43,000 --> 03:53:44,880
Speaker 12: Well, I mean I would argue the government's also doing

4564
03:53:44,960 --> 03:53:48,680
Speaker 12: this fear, you know, calling every legal observer domestic terrorists.

4565
03:53:48,720 --> 03:53:50,880
Speaker 8: Right, yeah, I guess, yeah, fair enough.

4566
03:53:51,600 --> 03:53:54,760
Speaker 2: So we should mention this just so we don't leave

4567
03:53:54,760 --> 03:53:56,360
Speaker 2: it out. Although we don't have a ton to say

4568
03:53:56,400 --> 03:53:59,440
Speaker 2: at the moment about this, but like the day before

4569
03:53:59,560 --> 03:54:02,520
Speaker 2: we were corded this on the twenty seventh of January,

4570
03:54:02,600 --> 03:54:05,400
Speaker 2: I believe elean Omar was doing a town hall in

4571
03:54:05,520 --> 03:54:11,360
Speaker 2: Minneapolis where she is a representative, and was assaulted by

4572
03:54:11,480 --> 03:54:14,360
Speaker 2: a man named Anthony James kasmir Zak, who was a

4573
03:54:14,400 --> 03:54:16,880
Speaker 2: fifty five year old. He was carrying what looked like

4574
03:54:17,440 --> 03:54:20,320
Speaker 2: a syringe but without a needle, just like a like

4575
03:54:20,400 --> 03:54:22,440
Speaker 2: a large syringe, like the kind you'd used to like

4576
03:54:22,560 --> 03:54:26,720
Speaker 2: give medicine to an animal or something. Yeah, an irrigation syringe, right,

4577
03:54:26,880 --> 03:54:29,680
Speaker 2: and it was filled with some kind of off brownish

4578
03:54:29,880 --> 03:54:32,600
Speaker 2: yellow liquid. I don't think we know what it was.

4579
03:54:32,800 --> 03:54:36,400
Speaker 2: It apparently was foul smelling, obviously, and he ran up

4580
03:54:36,480 --> 03:54:39,680
Speaker 2: screaming you must resign, and sprayed some of it at her.

4581
03:54:39,840 --> 03:54:42,160
Speaker 2: I don't know how much God on her. He was

4582
03:54:42,240 --> 03:54:45,720
Speaker 2: tackled very quickly by a security guard. Omar seemed to

4583
03:54:45,760 --> 03:54:47,720
Speaker 2: be squaring up and ready to fight him, which was

4584
03:54:47,960 --> 03:54:51,600
Speaker 2: you know, expected, given like the kind of shit she's

4585
03:54:51,600 --> 03:54:53,520
Speaker 2: had to deal with, right, she had to be a

4586
03:54:53,640 --> 03:54:56,520
Speaker 2: very tough person. She doesn't seem to be injured. I

4587
03:54:56,560 --> 03:54:59,600
Speaker 2: don't think there's any evidence that the liquid or whatever

4588
03:55:00,160 --> 03:55:03,320
Speaker 2: was something that caused or is likely to cause health issues,

4589
03:55:03,560 --> 03:55:05,240
Speaker 2: which I mean doesn't make it not assault.

4590
03:55:05,320 --> 03:55:05,360
Speaker 17: It.

4591
03:55:05,720 --> 03:55:08,840
Speaker 2: I don't think she's currently in any times, you're thankfully. Yeah,

4592
03:55:09,440 --> 03:55:13,520
Speaker 2: there's been a chorus of denunciations about the attack on

4593
03:55:13,720 --> 03:55:16,680
Speaker 2: her from a bunch of other elected leaders. I know

4594
03:55:16,800 --> 03:55:19,000
Speaker 2: people have said that like it's been ignored, but at

4595
03:55:19,080 --> 03:55:21,200
Speaker 2: least it hasn't been from other people in the house, right.

4596
03:55:21,240 --> 03:55:23,440
Speaker 2: There's a lot of folks, including some Republicans who have

4597
03:55:23,480 --> 03:55:25,800
Speaker 2: made comments on it, just because none of them like

4598
03:55:25,880 --> 03:55:30,240
Speaker 2: the thought of having shit sprayed on them. I think, yeah, yeah, Anyway,

4599
03:55:30,280 --> 03:55:32,760
Speaker 2: we don't know a ton about this guy and why

4600
03:55:32,800 --> 03:55:36,160
Speaker 2: he did otherwise, other than that he presumably hated illin Omar, right,

4601
03:55:36,360 --> 03:55:40,600
Speaker 2: and that he wanted to get her to quit her

4602
03:55:40,680 --> 03:55:43,840
Speaker 2: job or otherwise harmor in some way. We don't really

4603
03:55:43,880 --> 03:55:47,240
Speaker 2: know much about this guy. There's some people talking about

4604
03:55:47,240 --> 03:55:49,800
Speaker 2: the fact that his kids seem to be on the left. Well,

4605
03:55:49,800 --> 03:55:51,520
Speaker 2: he's clearly not. As if that's weird.

4606
03:55:52,240 --> 03:55:52,520
Speaker 8: It's not.

4607
03:55:53,040 --> 03:55:55,200
Speaker 2: If your dad is the kind of crazy asshole who

4608
03:55:55,240 --> 03:55:58,840
Speaker 2: will spray poison on elein Omar hit a town hall,

4609
03:55:59,280 --> 03:56:01,680
Speaker 2: I can see how maybe you become the opposite of him.

4610
03:56:02,640 --> 03:56:04,160
Speaker 2: But yeah, that's about all we know at the moment.

4611
03:56:04,320 --> 03:56:06,120
Speaker 12: I do want to mention Trump's comment on it, where

4612
03:56:06,200 --> 03:56:08,960
Speaker 12: ABC News asked Trump if you'd seen the video, and

4613
03:56:09,920 --> 03:56:13,600
Speaker 12: oh yeah, Trump said, quote, No, I don't think about her.

4614
03:56:13,680 --> 03:56:16,200
Speaker 12: I think she's a fraud. I really don't think about that.

4615
03:56:16,360 --> 03:56:18,680
Speaker 12: She probably had sprayed herself knowing her.

4616
03:56:18,960 --> 03:56:21,040
Speaker 2: Yeah you said that like a guy who thinks about

4617
03:56:21,200 --> 03:56:21,960
Speaker 2: her constantly.

4618
03:56:23,040 --> 03:56:27,840
Speaker 8: Hey, yeah, yeah, really hideous stuff. Yeah.

4619
03:56:28,600 --> 03:56:30,880
Speaker 1: Producer Sophie here with a quick pickup as we did

4620
03:56:30,960 --> 03:56:34,560
Speaker 1: not have this information at the time of recording. This

4621
03:56:34,760 --> 03:56:39,680
Speaker 1: is as of January twenty twenty six, per AP news quote.

4622
03:56:40,280 --> 03:56:42,680
Speaker 1: The Justice Department has charged a man who scorted apple

4623
03:56:42,760 --> 03:56:46,600
Speaker 1: sided vinegar on Democratic Representative Omar at an event in Minneapolis.

4624
03:56:46,720 --> 03:56:50,640
Speaker 1: According to court papers made public Thursday, The man arrested

4625
03:56:50,800 --> 03:56:54,760
Speaker 1: for Tuesday's attack, Anthony kasmar Zak, faces a charge of

4626
03:56:55,000 --> 03:56:58,640
Speaker 1: forcibly assaulting, opposing, impeding, and intimidating Omar. According to a

4627
03:56:58,680 --> 03:57:02,920
Speaker 1: complaint filed in federal authorities determined that the substance was

4628
03:57:03,000 --> 03:57:06,280
Speaker 1: water and apple cider vinegar. According to an Affidavid, after

4629
03:57:06,360 --> 03:57:09,320
Speaker 1: kasmar Zak sprayed Omar with the liquid, he appeared to say,

4630
03:57:09,760 --> 03:57:15,000
Speaker 1: quote she's not resigning, You're splitting Minnesota's apart end quote,

4631
03:57:15,200 --> 03:57:18,760
Speaker 1: the affi David says. Authorities also say that kasmar Zak

4632
03:57:18,920 --> 03:57:22,760
Speaker 1: told a close associate several years ago that quote somebody

4633
03:57:22,840 --> 03:57:27,880
Speaker 1: should kill end quote Omar quote. Documents say kasmar Zak

4634
03:57:27,920 --> 03:57:31,480
Speaker 1: appeared briefly in federal court Thursday afternoon. His attorney told

4635
03:57:31,560 --> 03:57:34,400
Speaker 1: the judge her client was unmedicated at the time of

4636
03:57:34,440 --> 03:57:37,520
Speaker 1: the incident and has not had access to medications he

4637
03:57:37,680 --> 03:57:40,640
Speaker 1: needs to treat Parkinson's disease in other serious conditions he

4638
03:57:40,680 --> 03:57:45,360
Speaker 1: suffers from US Magistrate Judge Dulce Foster ordered that Kazmarzak

4639
03:57:45,440 --> 03:57:48,520
Speaker 1: remain in custody and told officials he needs to see

4640
03:57:48,520 --> 03:57:51,960
Speaker 1: a nurse when he's transferred to the Sherburne County Jail.

4641
03:57:52,320 --> 03:57:55,280
Speaker 1: End quote again, that is via AP News.

4642
03:57:55,840 --> 03:57:58,040
Speaker 9: So I want to very briefly update people on Rajava.

4643
03:57:58,280 --> 03:57:59,800
Speaker 9: The bfke bassing for a whole episode.

4644
03:58:00,080 --> 03:58:00,680
Speaker 8: We will do one.

4645
03:58:00,760 --> 03:58:01,760
Speaker 9: I've been in Minneapolis.

4646
03:58:01,840 --> 03:58:03,360
Speaker 2: It's kind of a lot going on right now.

4647
03:58:04,120 --> 03:58:06,280
Speaker 9: Yeah and me you may have noticed, but this is

4648
03:58:06,320 --> 03:58:09,480
Speaker 9: all very important, right Like, horrible things are happening. So

4649
03:58:10,240 --> 03:58:14,040
Speaker 9: the STG that's a Syrian Transitional Government Ahmed al Shara

4650
03:58:14,400 --> 03:58:18,960
Speaker 9: Jiulani government right and the SDF Syrian Democratic Forces which

4651
03:58:19,000 --> 03:58:23,040
Speaker 9: includes the YPG and YPG the armed forces that defend Rashava,

4652
03:58:23,600 --> 03:58:27,480
Speaker 9: have signed a fifteen day extension to their ceasefire. But

4653
03:58:27,640 --> 03:58:31,080
Speaker 9: both sides are accusing the other of widespread violations of

4654
03:58:31,160 --> 03:58:33,960
Speaker 9: the ceasefire. Both of them are right, like, I've seen

4655
03:58:34,000 --> 03:58:39,160
Speaker 9: a lot of videos of ceasefire violations. Ceasefire was internationally mediated,

4656
03:58:39,280 --> 03:58:42,320
Speaker 9: likely by the US, and likely because of huge concerns

4657
03:58:42,680 --> 03:58:46,280
Speaker 9: around the escape of Islamic state prisoners. There was an

4658
03:58:46,320 --> 03:58:49,480
Speaker 9: attempted is suicide bombing in a ruck yesterday as we

4659
03:58:49,560 --> 03:58:52,680
Speaker 9: record this. That's the first time I can remember one

4660
03:58:52,680 --> 03:58:56,640
Speaker 9: of those happening in a while that the person was apprehended.

4661
03:58:57,120 --> 03:59:02,320
Speaker 9: But the US, I know, has been transferring detainees from

4662
03:59:02,360 --> 03:59:05,840
Speaker 9: the prisoner Hesseka and they're transferring them to US facilities

4663
03:59:05,880 --> 03:59:09,080
Speaker 9: in Iraq. Right, it doesn't the prince of the detainees

4664
03:59:09,160 --> 03:59:10,640
Speaker 9: is not the thing that is going to make the

4665
03:59:10,760 --> 03:59:13,880
Speaker 9: US support their allies in Rosjavo or their former allies

4666
03:59:13,880 --> 03:59:16,080
Speaker 9: in their SDF for I guess I should say now

4667
03:59:16,120 --> 03:59:18,960
Speaker 9: that the US, once again it is not going to

4668
03:59:18,960 --> 03:59:21,600
Speaker 9: be a good friend to the Kurdish people. Trump has

4669
03:59:21,760 --> 03:59:26,520
Speaker 9: also truthed that Iraq should not appoint Nurial Malachi as

4670
03:59:26,560 --> 03:59:30,000
Speaker 9: its next prime minister. In his Truth, he said quote,

4671
03:59:30,320 --> 03:59:32,760
Speaker 9: I am hearing that the great country of Iraq might

4672
03:59:32,880 --> 03:59:36,200
Speaker 9: make a very bad choice by reinstalling Nuriel Malachi as

4673
03:59:36,240 --> 03:59:39,120
Speaker 9: prime minister. Last time Malachi was in power, the country

4674
03:59:39,160 --> 03:59:42,120
Speaker 9: descended into poverty and total chaos. That should not be

4675
03:59:42,160 --> 03:59:45,440
Speaker 9: allowed to happen again because of his insane policies and ideologies.

4676
03:59:45,520 --> 03:59:47,840
Speaker 9: If elected, the United States of America will no longer

4677
03:59:47,920 --> 03:59:50,520
Speaker 9: help Iraq. And if we are not there to help,

4678
03:59:50,840 --> 03:59:54,720
Speaker 9: Iraq has zero chance of success, prosperity, or freedom. Make

4679
03:59:54,840 --> 03:59:56,960
Speaker 9: Iraq great again, Jesus Chris.

4680
03:59:58,240 --> 04:00:02,760
Speaker 2: First off, I mean, get us suck like he's a

4681
04:00:02,840 --> 04:00:03,600
Speaker 2: really bad guy.

4682
04:00:04,160 --> 04:00:06,960
Speaker 9: Yeah, this is not a like yay Malachi post, but

4683
04:00:07,320 --> 04:00:08,800
Speaker 9: this ain't the way to go about doing that.

4684
04:00:09,200 --> 04:00:11,440
Speaker 2: No, I mean just the whole we will cut all

4685
04:00:12,080 --> 04:00:15,440
Speaker 2: ties and support to Iraq thing. When everything happening there

4686
04:00:15,520 --> 04:00:17,440
Speaker 2: is still downstream of us fucking with them.

4687
04:00:17,640 --> 04:00:19,120
Speaker 8: Yeah, we did this.

4688
04:00:20,280 --> 04:00:22,880
Speaker 9: We spent twenty fucking years killing people in a ruck.

4689
04:00:23,040 --> 04:00:25,360
Speaker 9: Like you don't just get to be like, oh yeah,

4690
04:00:25,840 --> 04:00:27,920
Speaker 9: and like the idea that we were doing regime change,

4691
04:00:28,000 --> 04:00:30,080
Speaker 9: but when the regime isn't and the one that we

4692
04:00:30,320 --> 04:00:32,000
Speaker 9: like that people are liked, and I was like, we're

4693
04:00:32,040 --> 04:00:34,760
Speaker 9: doing regime change again, Like obviously the whole thing was

4694
04:00:34,800 --> 04:00:35,720
Speaker 9: a fraud and a lie.

4695
04:00:36,000 --> 04:00:37,840
Speaker 8: Yes, yeah, still is.

4696
04:00:38,360 --> 04:00:42,240
Speaker 9: Yeah, very concerned for my friends. All the parts of

4697
04:00:42,320 --> 04:00:46,000
Speaker 9: Curtis dannergy. The peace process between the PKK and Turkeys

4698
04:00:46,160 --> 04:00:50,040
Speaker 9: is falling apart, and state violence in Iran is still

4699
04:00:50,480 --> 04:00:54,920
Speaker 9: absolutely repugnant scale. Right, Yeah, a pretty tough time in

4700
04:00:54,960 --> 04:00:56,760
Speaker 9: that part of the world. I thinking of them.

4701
04:00:57,400 --> 04:01:00,120
Speaker 12: So finally, I want to give a brief update on

4702
04:01:00,200 --> 04:01:03,520
Speaker 12: my story from last week about this attempt to end

4703
04:01:03,640 --> 04:01:07,520
Speaker 12: FED independence and this attempt to sort of do an

4704
04:01:07,560 --> 04:01:12,600
Speaker 12: investigation into the chairman of the Federal Reserve. So earlier today,

4705
04:01:12,680 --> 04:01:16,040
Speaker 12: as we were recording this, we got the result of

4706
04:01:16,480 --> 04:01:18,760
Speaker 12: the Fed's vote about what they were going to do

4707
04:01:18,840 --> 04:01:21,880
Speaker 12: with interest rates. There's a whole episode about that. Go

4708
04:01:22,000 --> 04:01:23,040
Speaker 12: listen to that if you want air.

4709
04:01:22,960 --> 04:01:23,560
Speaker 8: Send what this is.

4710
04:01:23,720 --> 04:01:27,920
Speaker 12: But the FED, instead of cutting rates as the administration

4711
04:01:28,000 --> 04:01:30,160
Speaker 12: has wanted, has decided to hold interest rates at the

4712
04:01:30,200 --> 04:01:32,640
Speaker 12: same level, which was what was expected out of the

4713
04:01:32,680 --> 04:01:37,120
Speaker 12: Federal Reserve before Trump started putting even more pressure on them. However,

4714
04:01:37,920 --> 04:01:40,680
Speaker 12: we did not get any updates from anyone at the

4715
04:01:40,720 --> 04:01:45,600
Speaker 12: Federal Reserve about this Department of Justice investigation or any

4716
04:01:45,640 --> 04:01:48,840
Speaker 12: of the Trump pressure that's been being put on the

4717
04:01:48,880 --> 04:01:53,440
Speaker 12: Federal Reserve. So we'll keep you updated as the situation evolves,

4718
04:01:53,480 --> 04:01:56,400
Speaker 12: but all we got was a very normal interest rates

4719
04:01:56,440 --> 04:01:58,320
Speaker 12: are being held at the same level.

4720
04:01:58,960 --> 04:02:01,560
Speaker 9: We will include our list of mutual aid fundraisers for

4721
04:02:01,640 --> 04:02:04,280
Speaker 9: Minneapolis again in the show notes for this episode. Would

4722
04:02:04,360 --> 04:02:07,080
Speaker 9: like to donate, put a transfer on your couch yep

4723
04:02:07,240 --> 04:02:09,880
Speaker 9: and if you want to email us cool Zone Tips

4724
04:02:09,960 --> 04:02:13,160
Speaker 9: at proton dot me use of proton mail addresses.

4725
04:02:13,240 --> 04:02:13,480
Speaker 17: Send it.

4726
04:02:14,200 --> 04:02:17,600
Speaker 7: We reported the news, We reported the news.

4727
04:02:22,920 --> 04:02:26,080
Speaker 2: Hey, We'll be back Monday with more episodes every week

4728
04:02:26,160 --> 04:02:28,040
Speaker 2: from now until the heat death of the universe.

4729
04:02:28,800 --> 04:02:31,280
Speaker 18: It could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media.

4730
04:02:31,520 --> 04:02:34,520
Speaker 18: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

4731
04:02:34,640 --> 04:02:38,160
Speaker 18: coolzonmedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

4732
04:02:38,280 --> 04:02:41,840
Speaker 18: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can

4733
04:02:41,880 --> 04:02:44,200
Speaker 18: now find sources where it Could Happen here listed directly

4734
04:02:44,240 --> 04:02:45,360
Speaker 18: in episode descriptions.

4735
04:02:45,720 --> 04:02:46,520
Speaker 8: Thanks for listening.