WEBVTT - Skeptics and Sasquatches 0:00:03.080 --> 0:00:06.240 Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind Somehow Stuff Works 0:00:06.280 --> 0:00:14.760 dot com. Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 0:00:14.760 --> 0:00:17.320 My name is Robert Lamp and I'm Julie Douglas. Julie, 0:00:17.360 --> 0:00:19.840 do you believe in Sasquatch? Do you believe in dick Foot? 0:00:20.200 --> 0:00:25.400 Did you believe in Bigfoot? Do you believe yet? Day? 0:00:26.760 --> 0:00:30.080 The question? I know. I know as a kid, I 0:00:30.240 --> 0:00:33.400 really really really wanted Bigfoot to be real. I have 0:00:33.479 --> 0:00:37.560 to say I feel pretty skeptical about the YETI the 0:00:37.600 --> 0:00:41.600 sasquatch existing. Yeah, I'm kind of in the same boat. 0:00:41.640 --> 0:00:45.000 I always think back to the two thousand and eight 0:00:45.000 --> 0:00:48.839 Georgia Bigfoot hoax, particularly because that was my I was 0:00:48.960 --> 0:00:51.839 I pretty much just started at how stuff works. So 0:00:52.000 --> 0:00:54.760 my life suddenly had a lot more science in it 0:00:54.840 --> 0:00:57.680 than than ever before because it wasn't just stuff I 0:00:57.720 --> 0:01:01.440 was reading on the side. It was my job. And uh, 0:01:01.520 --> 0:01:03.960 until you know, immersed in science is suddenly the all 0:01:04.000 --> 0:01:05.760 over the internet and on the TVs. It was like 0:01:05.760 --> 0:01:08.280 a slow newsweek. I think, um, they're they're all these 0:01:08.319 --> 0:01:11.840 stories out of Georgia, the state we are in um 0:01:11.959 --> 0:01:14.000 where apparently a car salesman by the name of Rick 0:01:14.080 --> 0:01:16.440 Dyer and a then police officer by the name of 0:01:16.560 --> 0:01:19.840 Matt Wouldn't claimed to have a big foot corps on 0:01:19.959 --> 0:01:22.840 ice and a cooler, and it was and it just 0:01:22.959 --> 0:01:25.120 escalated from there. It because there was a news conference 0:01:25.120 --> 0:01:29.160 in California, and for a brief little sliver of time 0:01:29.200 --> 0:01:32.720 there it was it was kind of to be cliche. 0:01:32.800 --> 0:01:35.360 It was an amazing time to be alive, because because 0:01:35.400 --> 0:01:39.240 it seemed possible that we might be about to know 0:01:39.440 --> 0:01:42.160 for sure that there are sasquatches out there, that there 0:01:42.160 --> 0:01:44.600 are bigfoots, skunk gates, whatever we want we want to 0:01:44.600 --> 0:01:47.000 call them, and uh, and even though I doubted it, 0:01:47.319 --> 0:01:51.080 I was, I gave into the temptation to really want 0:01:51.120 --> 0:01:52.960 to believe. And of course then we found out that 0:01:53.000 --> 0:01:56.120 it was just a sasquatch costume stuff with possum road 0:01:56.200 --> 0:01:59.440 kill and slaughter house leftovers. But but for just a 0:01:59.480 --> 0:02:03.000 little while, Catrick our imagination. You know, to what degree 0:02:03.000 --> 0:02:04.400 did they think they were going to pull that off? 0:02:04.400 --> 0:02:06.360 That's what I'm wondering, Like, why go through the trouble 0:02:06.400 --> 0:02:10.720 of stuffing the innerds with with leftover meats? And well, 0:02:10.760 --> 0:02:14.120 I was reading about it. I've I've read interpretations where 0:02:14.160 --> 0:02:15.760 it's just kind of like a joke that got out 0:02:15.800 --> 0:02:19.240 of control um and quickly was just out of hand. 0:02:19.600 --> 0:02:22.320 I've also read some criticisms to say that one of 0:02:22.320 --> 0:02:25.560 the individuals involved was really hoping to get some more 0:02:25.639 --> 0:02:28.799 business for sort of wilderness tours in the area, so 0:02:29.560 --> 0:02:31.400 you know, a little column and a little calm by 0:02:31.560 --> 0:02:35.079 and maybe they themselves were kind of given into the 0:02:35.280 --> 0:02:38.960 lust for sasquat reality as well. Well. I think of 0:02:39.000 --> 0:02:41.880 the beginnings, at least in terms of the of arresting 0:02:41.919 --> 0:02:44.840 the public's imagination on this topic, is being that I 0:02:44.880 --> 0:02:50.040 think it's sixty four sixteen millimeter footage that was shot 0:02:50.040 --> 0:02:52.920 by Roger Patterson and Bob Gillan excuse me, it was 0:02:52.919 --> 0:02:56.040 the nineteen six seven and everybody is probably familiar with 0:02:56.080 --> 0:02:59.280 his grainy black and white footage. Yeah, And but you 0:02:59.280 --> 0:03:01.240 know the thing is, if you're looking for it on YouTube, 0:03:01.360 --> 0:03:04.600 there's so many different versions of its CG to to 0:03:04.600 --> 0:03:07.320 to lose track of the original, which I'll be sure 0:03:07.400 --> 0:03:10.320 to to share when this publishes. But the original is 0:03:10.360 --> 0:03:12.520 really haunting because like the first several minutes of it 0:03:12.520 --> 0:03:15.120 are just dudes riding around on horseback. You're just looking 0:03:15.160 --> 0:03:17.040 at the woods, and there's that click click click click 0:03:17.000 --> 0:03:19.880 click click click. Uh, you know kind of sound is 0:03:19.919 --> 0:03:24.000 that the film processes through and then you see this 0:03:24.080 --> 0:03:27.680 creature sort of you know, doing that that saunter across 0:03:27.760 --> 0:03:31.200 the clearing in the woods and uh. And it's been 0:03:31.240 --> 0:03:34.359 parodied so many times that it tends to lose any 0:03:34.400 --> 0:03:37.560 kind of impact on a modern viewer. But I find 0:03:37.600 --> 0:03:39.960 going back to that original film and watching it from 0:03:40.000 --> 0:03:44.000 the beginning and then having the the the mysterious creature 0:03:44.120 --> 0:03:49.040 gradually appear, you recapture perhaps some of the original excitement 0:03:49.080 --> 0:03:51.360 people found in that footage. Yeah, I mean, because what 0:03:51.360 --> 0:03:53.800 you're talking about is that half human, half ape like 0:03:54.000 --> 0:03:57.400 creature just ambling out of a stream bed in the 0:03:57.800 --> 0:04:00.839 Six Rivers National Forests in northern californ On As you say, 0:04:00.880 --> 0:04:04.080 it's not you know, they're just kind of moving along 0:04:04.120 --> 0:04:06.920 there on horseback. It's the footage is just sort of 0:04:07.960 --> 0:04:12.360 oh care nature. Although they are going after the sasquatch, 0:04:12.480 --> 0:04:14.960 that is what they're into, was when they were actually 0:04:15.000 --> 0:04:17.240 filming this. If that's certainly worth noting. It's not just 0:04:17.279 --> 0:04:19.160 a matter of out and then there's a sasquatch and 0:04:19.200 --> 0:04:22.400 we happen to see the sasquatch. So of course, there's 0:04:22.480 --> 0:04:25.880 there's much debate about this film whether or not it's 0:04:25.960 --> 0:04:30.479 actually someone in a guerrilla suit um, and we we're 0:04:30.480 --> 0:04:32.280 not going to get into all of these sort of 0:04:32.760 --> 0:04:36.080 whether or not this film is um real or not, 0:04:36.120 --> 0:04:39.159 because people are still analyzing it and making arguments in 0:04:39.200 --> 0:04:40.839 both directions. I do want to say real quick, the 0:04:40.920 --> 0:04:44.440 term sasquatch is a Silish word from the Salish people 0:04:44.480 --> 0:04:47.240 in other Native American people's of the Alaskan, Yukon and 0:04:47.320 --> 0:04:50.440 parts of British Columbia, and it essentially means wild man. 0:04:51.080 --> 0:04:53.840 But they're also like over a hundred and fifty different 0:04:53.880 --> 0:04:57.839 local names for this shaggy bipedal creature. And in the 0:04:57.839 --> 0:04:59.440 original myths they would also say that it could be 0:04:59.480 --> 0:05:02.760 fift high. Nowadays, when people were talking about seth Watch, 0:05:02.760 --> 0:05:04.640 they couldn't make an argument more and they're like the 0:05:04.720 --> 0:05:08.640 seven to nine foot range. Yeah, and this has been 0:05:08.680 --> 0:05:11.880 reported all over the world. Yeah, you have some variation 0:05:11.960 --> 0:05:16.640 of it for Antarctica, Wellarica, but so you have you 0:05:16.720 --> 0:05:19.239 have you have the eddies in the Himalayas, the skunk 0:05:19.279 --> 0:05:22.880 apes in Arkansas and Mississippi, you have the Siberian almasty, 0:05:23.040 --> 0:05:26.320 you have the Chinese year in or wild man um. 0:05:26.400 --> 0:05:29.640 You have the Cherokee suel calu anywhere you look. And 0:05:29.880 --> 0:05:32.120 when you get into the wild man myths to the 0:05:32.160 --> 0:05:34.839 idea that they're wild men in the forest, you go 0:05:34.880 --> 0:05:37.880 back to thirteen through sixteenth century Europeans. They believed in 0:05:37.920 --> 0:05:40.279 wild men in the woods. Uh. And then there's a 0:05:40.920 --> 0:05:44.680 you can find a compelling argument that essentially the big 0:05:44.720 --> 0:05:48.080 foot myth takes over for us as we as we 0:05:48.160 --> 0:05:52.280 encounter Darwin's theory of evolution. Uh, the idea that we 0:05:52.279 --> 0:05:55.160 couldn't possibly be werewolves anymore, that with the werewolf, can 0:05:55.200 --> 0:05:59.159 no longer be go to representation of our be steel 0:05:59.200 --> 0:06:03.400 shadows cell. Instead we need this other form. Okay, So 0:06:03.480 --> 0:06:05.679 Darwin came online and people are like, all right, here's 0:06:05.680 --> 0:06:08.560 the deal. Were wolves they're out yet he's in, Yeah, 0:06:08.600 --> 0:06:11.640 we're not. Really, we're not descended from wolves. We're descended 0:06:11.640 --> 0:06:14.080 from apes. And so therefore an ape is a better 0:06:14.120 --> 0:06:16.279 avatar for a be steel self. But then again, like 0:06:16.279 --> 0:06:20.280 I said, people were we're seeing uh reporting wild men 0:06:20.320 --> 0:06:22.360 in the woods long before Darwin came around. So I 0:06:22.400 --> 0:06:25.120 don't think it's the most compelling argument, but it's interesting 0:06:25.200 --> 0:06:28.080 to think about. So the idea of a sasquatch is 0:06:28.240 --> 0:06:31.120 interesting to me for a couple of reasons. One as 0:06:31.160 --> 0:06:34.360 I feel like it's really come to symbolize humans pension 0:06:34.440 --> 0:06:38.440 for logical fallacies. So, you know, believers in Bigfoot would 0:06:38.480 --> 0:06:42.600 claim that the absence of hard evidence of Bigfoot is 0:06:42.640 --> 0:06:46.560 not evidence that Bigfoot does not exist. This is the argument, right, 0:06:47.160 --> 0:06:49.640 And this is all kind of created this cottage industry 0:06:49.680 --> 0:06:53.400 of sincerely earnest people trying to ferret out the truth 0:06:53.480 --> 0:06:57.120 among pranksters and hoaxes. So it sort of money is 0:06:57.160 --> 0:06:59.560 all the water here. You have people that really want 0:06:59.600 --> 0:07:03.320 to believe Eve and want to find actual proof and 0:07:03.360 --> 0:07:05.800 prove it. You have people who want to believe and 0:07:05.839 --> 0:07:07.839 are willing to just cling to whatever. You have people 0:07:07.839 --> 0:07:10.280 who just want to make a hoax. And then you 0:07:10.320 --> 0:07:13.160 have people who really want to apply the rigors of 0:07:13.400 --> 0:07:16.000 science to it or are already of the opinion that 0:07:16.040 --> 0:07:18.560 we've already done that, and they're more pressing things to 0:07:18.600 --> 0:07:22.600 consider right in the absence again of any body essentially 0:07:23.240 --> 0:07:27.000 um And then I think you can't help to think 0:07:27.080 --> 0:07:29.600 that somehow and all of this it sort of stirs 0:07:29.640 --> 0:07:33.239 that childlike wonder, right, and that you know, there's somewhere 0:07:33.280 --> 0:07:35.520 inside of us. There's just an iota of hope that 0:07:35.600 --> 0:07:39.680 this nine to twelve foot harry mammal, you know, peaceably 0:07:40.320 --> 0:07:43.640 roams the hinterlands, right, And I think about it as 0:07:43.680 --> 0:07:47.520 being sort of a mash up between Chewbacca and where 0:07:47.520 --> 0:07:49.600 the wild things are. These are these are things from 0:07:49.640 --> 0:07:53.480 my youth and from my memory, my imagination, all embodied 0:07:53.520 --> 0:07:56.040 in what Bigfoot is. Yeah, because the idea is that 0:07:56.080 --> 0:08:00.480 there is this almost magical creature. I mean, most no 0:08:00.520 --> 0:08:02.880 one out there that's you know, a sasquattion just saying 0:08:02.880 --> 0:08:04.800 it's a magical creature, the saying it's a natural creature. 0:08:04.800 --> 0:08:07.800 But there's something magical about the idea that there is 0:08:07.840 --> 0:08:11.120 this uh, this cousin of humanity that still lives wild 0:08:11.200 --> 0:08:13.960 and naked and furry in portions of the world that 0:08:14.000 --> 0:08:16.760 we haven't turned into a parking lot yet, and that 0:08:16.800 --> 0:08:18.440 they're so good at what they're doing that we have 0:08:18.560 --> 0:08:21.000 really no proof that they're there, that they're they're almost 0:08:21.080 --> 0:08:24.520 like a forest god living in the woods. And while 0:08:24.560 --> 0:08:27.360 there are stories out there of of of a sasquatch 0:08:27.440 --> 0:08:30.120 or a Bigfoot or what have you being aggressive towards humans, 0:08:30.440 --> 0:08:33.160 most of the encounters, you seem to come across their 0:08:33.200 --> 0:08:37.960 more mundane, they're more peaceful. And you see these representations, 0:08:38.000 --> 0:08:42.080 for instance, the Melbourne Catchum Global Sasquatch Foundation. We'll discuss 0:08:42.120 --> 0:08:44.160 that a little later on. But their emblem is is 0:08:44.200 --> 0:08:48.800 this wonderful cheesey emblem of the planet Earth. And then 0:08:48.800 --> 0:08:51.120 there's the outline of a sasquatch on there, and the 0:08:51.160 --> 0:08:54.360 sasquatch is raising one hand, kind of like the figure 0:08:54.400 --> 0:08:57.280 on the Voyager, that sort of I come in peace 0:08:57.640 --> 0:09:00.360 sort of thing, and I I laughed the image, but 0:09:00.400 --> 0:09:02.480 it does sum up I feel like a lot of 0:09:02.760 --> 0:09:05.800 the hopes uh and and dreams out there when it 0:09:05.840 --> 0:09:09.840 comes to belief or the desire to believe in a sasquatch. 0:09:10.320 --> 0:09:13.080 It's a little bit of a Kauaii hangover, you know. 0:09:13.160 --> 0:09:16.000 I was just thinking about the World Wildlife Fund, and 0:09:16.160 --> 0:09:18.760 I believe their logo is a panda, which is super 0:09:18.760 --> 0:09:21.360 and cuddly, but if you go up to a panda, 0:09:21.400 --> 0:09:24.560 it will mally you. Right. So again, these are ideas 0:09:24.600 --> 0:09:28.640 about things that exist that don't exist, perhaps exist, And 0:09:29.000 --> 0:09:31.959 for me, what is again interesting about all of this 0:09:32.160 --> 0:09:36.240 is that it kind of brings up this question of 0:09:36.600 --> 0:09:41.800 could there be a species of primate behind these legends. 0:09:41.880 --> 0:09:46.440 So not necessarily sasquatch or YETI as we we think 0:09:46.480 --> 0:09:49.800 of it, but maybe something to this. That's the question 0:09:49.920 --> 0:09:52.360 that that is interesting about this. Yeah, and it is 0:09:52.400 --> 0:09:55.520 a reasonable question. It's it's easy to get distracted by 0:09:55.640 --> 0:09:58.680 all of the nonsense out there. You lose sight of 0:09:58.720 --> 0:10:04.200 the fact that, Okay, nine foot gigantopithecus creature did exist. Uh, 0:10:04.280 --> 0:10:07.359 you know in prehistoric times that we do have guerrillas 0:10:07.440 --> 0:10:10.720 to this day. So, and there are portions of the 0:10:10.760 --> 0:10:13.720 world that that are there are more of a wilderness, 0:10:13.920 --> 0:10:16.920 particularly you're looking in like northern North America or a 0:10:16.960 --> 0:10:20.960 Siberian region. Uh, certainly parts of the Himalayas. Uh, you know, 0:10:21.000 --> 0:10:25.080 deep jungles. There are places where you could conceivably have 0:10:25.760 --> 0:10:30.160 a species, even a nine foot tall eight man species 0:10:30.520 --> 0:10:35.080 living outside of a human understanding. Doubtful, but possible. Doubt 0:10:35.320 --> 0:10:38.760 but possible. Yeah, you're not arguing of flying unicorns. You're 0:10:38.800 --> 0:10:42.040 arguing something that tends to make sense, uh, based on 0:10:42.120 --> 0:10:44.800 what we know about the natural world. In two thousand 0:10:44.840 --> 0:10:49.280 and two, the world's perhaps the most famous primatologist, Jane Goodall, 0:10:49.520 --> 0:10:54.240 came out as a I guess you could say bigfoot enthusiast. Yes, 0:10:54.600 --> 0:10:57.319 if not someone who really hopes that this is the case. 0:10:57.920 --> 0:11:00.439 And uh so she does admit to being a romantic 0:11:00.480 --> 0:11:04.520 and having very much a heartfelt feeling about she She 0:11:04.679 --> 0:11:07.679 said during the interview with Ira Flatau of MPR Science 0:11:08.120 --> 0:11:10.640 Friday that she was sure of it. Now she's just 0:11:10.720 --> 0:11:13.560 kind of talking off the cuff here in this interview. Yeah, 0:11:13.559 --> 0:11:15.760 she's not presenting a paper on it. She's just he said, 0:11:15.760 --> 0:11:18.760 he said that happening. She was like, oh, hey, um, 0:11:18.880 --> 0:11:20.720 and so this is what she she said. She said, 0:11:20.760 --> 0:11:23.440 I've talked to so many Native Americans who all described 0:11:23.480 --> 0:11:26.640 the same sounds to who have seen them. I've probably 0:11:26.640 --> 0:11:29.000 got about oh thirty books that have come from different 0:11:29.040 --> 0:11:31.720 parts of the world, from China, from all over the place. 0:11:31.880 --> 0:11:34.160 And there was a little tiny snippet in the newspaper 0:11:34.200 --> 0:11:37.600 just last last week which says that British scientists have 0:11:37.640 --> 0:11:40.640 found what they believed to be a yetty hair and 0:11:40.679 --> 0:11:42.800 that the scientists in the Natural History Museum in London 0:11:42.800 --> 0:11:46.920 couldn't identify it as any known animal. So we'll discuss 0:11:46.960 --> 0:11:49.760 more about DNA in a little bit. But she goes, 0:11:49.880 --> 0:11:51.840 as you say, on to say that she is a romantic. 0:11:51.880 --> 0:11:54.920 She she um. She also says it's strange that there 0:11:54.960 --> 0:11:57.680 has never been a single authentic hide or hair of 0:11:57.760 --> 0:12:00.679 the big Foot, So she is acknowledging in a skeptical 0:12:00.760 --> 0:12:04.080 way like we don't really have the evidence. But at 0:12:04.080 --> 0:12:06.439 the heart of this, again, I think, is that childlike 0:12:06.440 --> 0:12:10.640 wonder of like maybe it could be. So. Now, another 0:12:10.679 --> 0:12:15.600 individual that that came up when we were looking at actual, legitimate, 0:12:16.000 --> 0:12:19.720 learned individual scientists who are interested in the possible existence 0:12:19.720 --> 0:12:22.960 of Bigfoot is Jeff Meldrum. Now, Jeff Meldrum is Associate 0:12:22.960 --> 0:12:27.199 Professor of anatomy and Anthropology at Idaho State University UH. 0:12:27.200 --> 0:12:30.120 He's a research associate at the I have A Museum 0:12:30.120 --> 0:12:33.200 of Natural History, and he's his areas of research are 0:12:33.800 --> 0:12:40.079 primate functional morphography, paleontology, but also crypto zoology as well. Now, um, 0:12:40.160 --> 0:12:43.280 crypto zoology for anyone who isn't familiar with the term, 0:12:43.280 --> 0:12:46.319 we have zoology, which is that dealing with actual, UH 0:12:46.440 --> 0:12:50.000 creatures that are known to exist documented. Cryptozoo Zoology is 0:12:50.040 --> 0:12:53.800 concerned with creatures that we do not know actually exist. There, 0:12:54.280 --> 0:12:56.480 you know, you're things like your locknoest monsters, you're your 0:12:56.559 --> 0:13:00.120 your Bigfoot, monster, what have you? So Meldrum is interest 0:13:00.280 --> 0:13:02.760 in cryptozoology, he's interested in big Foot, but he is 0:13:02.800 --> 0:13:05.440 also he also has the science shops to back it up. 0:13:05.520 --> 0:13:10.240 He he is well informed about how the body of 0:13:10.320 --> 0:13:14.400 a large primate works and would work if it were 0:13:14.440 --> 0:13:16.640 in the form of the sasquash. That's right, because he 0:13:16.720 --> 0:13:21.200 knows all about primate locomotion, human look emotion, and so 0:13:21.280 --> 0:13:25.560 he has analyzed the footprints and he thinks that the 0:13:25.600 --> 0:13:29.760 way that that the foot seems to be uh designed, 0:13:30.040 --> 0:13:35.800 is that it's very well maybe a divergent species, and 0:13:35.880 --> 0:13:38.600 so that's that's interesting. Um. He gets a lot of 0:13:38.600 --> 0:13:41.680 flak for this, by the way, Yeah, as I imagine 0:13:41.679 --> 0:13:44.800 he would. Yeah. Um, But you know he's out there 0:13:44.880 --> 0:13:48.080 on the record saying, look, it's not just the footprints. 0:13:48.080 --> 0:13:51.880 I've examined that footage um from nineteen sixty seven. He says, 0:13:51.920 --> 0:13:54.360 you can see muscle movements, you can see the shoulder 0:13:54.400 --> 0:13:58.000 blade slide under the skin, you can see tendons attaching 0:13:58.000 --> 0:14:00.439 to joints and so forth. He says, the already is 0:14:00.480 --> 0:14:02.959 really much better than most people have acknowledged in the past. 0:14:03.040 --> 0:14:06.720 So again he's talking about that iconic film footage, which 0:14:06.720 --> 0:14:10.320 which I do after researching this podcast, I do agree 0:14:10.400 --> 0:14:13.560 that that we tend to just dismiss that footage these 0:14:13.640 --> 0:14:16.440 days because it has been lampooned so much, and it 0:14:16.480 --> 0:14:18.360 is has been ridicule and I've really become a joke. 0:14:18.920 --> 0:14:21.119 And I'm not saying if you look back at it, 0:14:21.120 --> 0:14:24.160 it's definitely going to convince you or anything. But if 0:14:24.200 --> 0:14:26.400 you if you just put all that aside, all your 0:14:26.440 --> 0:14:29.680 all these preconceived notions, and you watch the footage, fake 0:14:29.800 --> 0:14:33.600 or not, it's it's far more effective than we often 0:14:33.600 --> 0:14:36.440 give it credit. I agree. I also wanted to point 0:14:36.440 --> 0:14:41.359 out it's a gigantapithecus, the giant ape that you had discussed. 0:14:41.600 --> 0:14:44.080 This is this kind of gives us a clue about 0:14:44.120 --> 0:14:47.520 the limits of primate morphology. Right, so there is the 0:14:47.640 --> 0:14:51.720 possibility that you could have a nine foot tall mammal 0:14:51.840 --> 0:14:54.520 by three ft wide that you can't say that's not 0:14:54.680 --> 0:14:58.560 a possibility. It's we know that this is a kind 0:14:58.600 --> 0:15:01.400 of morphology that has exists it in the past. However, 0:15:01.760 --> 0:15:08.360 Michael Schermer will talk about these these different animals that 0:15:08.400 --> 0:15:12.240 we have discovered, and he'll will say that the reason 0:15:12.320 --> 0:15:16.760 cryptods merit our attention is that enough successful discoveries have 0:15:16.840 --> 0:15:20.320 been made by scientists based on local anecdotes and folklore 0:15:20.360 --> 0:15:24.200 that we cannot dismiss all claims a priori. So he says, 0:15:24.240 --> 0:15:28.800 the most famous examples include the gorilla. Actually in um 0:15:28.920 --> 0:15:31.200 we see the old copy that was a short necked 0:15:31.240 --> 0:15:37.280 relative of the draft commodo dragon in nineteen twelve, the bonobo. Uh. 0:15:37.480 --> 0:15:40.320 He goes on and on and on, but he says, 0:15:41.160 --> 0:15:44.640 there is one thing that is common, a common thread 0:15:44.680 --> 0:15:49.080 in all these discoveries. They have a body. It Yeah, 0:15:49.280 --> 0:15:51.600 like like another one. He mentions, of course, this cryptosol 0:15:51.720 --> 0:15:54.280 just loved to point at the ninety eight the discovery 0:15:54.320 --> 0:15:57.040 of a sila can that's in a species of archaic 0:15:57.040 --> 0:15:59.240 looking fish, and that we used to think it had 0:15:59.240 --> 0:16:01.320 gone extinct in the pitatious period, and then here it is. 0:16:01.400 --> 0:16:04.360 But to his point, we had a sela can to 0:16:04.400 --> 0:16:07.040 show off. Here's a gorilla, here's a sela can, here's 0:16:07.080 --> 0:16:09.280 a panda. And as Shermer points out in a two 0:16:09.320 --> 0:16:12.320 thousand three essay for Scientific American, uh, that's the big thing. 0:16:12.320 --> 0:16:14.240 Here show me the body. Where is the body? Because 0:16:14.320 --> 0:16:17.640 anytime we were classifying a new species, we need a holotype. 0:16:17.720 --> 0:16:20.120 We need the body of the creature. We need a 0:16:20.160 --> 0:16:23.360 specimen by which to go on to say here's what 0:16:23.400 --> 0:16:25.400 we found and here's another one. Oh, we can can 0:16:25.560 --> 0:16:28.040 we can compare uh the d n A here, we 0:16:28.080 --> 0:16:30.480 can compare the morphology of these two species and say 0:16:30.520 --> 0:16:33.840 this is this and it's not these other specimens. Okay, 0:16:33.880 --> 0:16:36.640 so we've discussed a bit about the case for the 0:16:36.680 --> 0:16:40.880 existence of bigfoot sasquatch yetti. Let's take a quick break, 0:16:40.960 --> 0:16:42.720 and when we get back we will talk about the 0:16:42.760 --> 0:16:52.200 case against it. All Right, we're back, you know, and 0:16:52.240 --> 0:16:54.320 I want to mention real quick, but Melvioun when he's 0:16:54.320 --> 0:16:57.640 talking about the tracks and prints and and even the 0:16:57.840 --> 0:17:01.400 uh that famous bit of footage, he's really all about 0:17:01.400 --> 0:17:03.520 the sasquatch, and he even admits that the case for 0:17:03.600 --> 0:17:08.800 the yetti in the Himalays is far less impressive. Yeah, 0:17:08.800 --> 0:17:11.280 and we'll get a bit into the Eddie and the 0:17:11.359 --> 0:17:15.199 Himalays and the reasons why that is problematic in a moment. 0:17:15.280 --> 0:17:18.560 But let's go back to this idea of you know, 0:17:18.600 --> 0:17:20.919 show us the body, or show us some sort of 0:17:21.000 --> 0:17:26.560 evidence that that gives us an idea that this species exists. Yeah, 0:17:26.880 --> 0:17:30.480 to uh to Jane Goodall's point, it is incredible that 0:17:30.880 --> 0:17:33.400 if this creature were to actually exists, that we don't 0:17:33.400 --> 0:17:35.639 have any proof of it, that we don't have bodies 0:17:35.840 --> 0:17:40.880 and we don't have a significant samples of their anatomy. Uh. Now, 0:17:40.960 --> 0:17:42.920 the the that would have in my mind, that tends 0:17:42.920 --> 0:17:45.600 to lead to the answer, well, that's because they don't exist, 0:17:46.119 --> 0:17:48.800 and or they did exist, they have not existed in 0:17:48.840 --> 0:17:52.720 a very long time. But uh but yeah, what are 0:17:52.720 --> 0:17:54.080 we what are we to make of that? Because it's 0:17:54.080 --> 0:17:56.399 because especially now, it's one thing to say, you know, 0:17:56.440 --> 0:17:59.040 early twenty century, but now this is the twenty one century. 0:17:59.040 --> 0:18:01.600 There are more humans round than ever before, and just 0:18:01.640 --> 0:18:03.640 about all of them have a camera on them. Because 0:18:03.680 --> 0:18:05.879 I said the other that's a whole other issue that 0:18:05.920 --> 0:18:08.600 the camera footage. But just about everyone has a camera. 0:18:08.920 --> 0:18:12.280 Where we're out all over the place. Why haven't we 0:18:12.320 --> 0:18:15.159 discovered a body? Well, I will play Devil's advocate for 0:18:15.200 --> 0:18:17.560 just one second and say that, you know, every once 0:18:17.600 --> 0:18:20.320 in a while you get the undiscovered tribe, right, so 0:18:20.440 --> 0:18:23.400 you know that there are pockets of people out there, 0:18:23.480 --> 0:18:26.360 maybe even a new species that just has not been 0:18:26.359 --> 0:18:29.879 discovered yet in the rainforest in the Amazon between two 0:18:29.920 --> 0:18:32.080 thousand and ten and two thousand and thirteen, there were 0:18:32.080 --> 0:18:35.320 four d forty one species of plants and animals that 0:18:35.400 --> 0:18:38.040 were discovered. How many of them were nine ft tall? 0:18:38.359 --> 0:18:40.879 That's the problem. Yeah, we're talking about a big creature 0:18:41.240 --> 0:18:43.840 that would would need a larger area in which to roam. 0:18:44.560 --> 0:18:46.560 Uh And and we just haven't seen it. We have 0:18:46.640 --> 0:18:49.480 not seen it happen. Again, not saying it it's impossible 0:18:49.520 --> 0:18:51.760 for it to exist. But when you start looking at 0:18:51.760 --> 0:18:54.639 the details, the size of the creature, how much space 0:18:54.640 --> 0:18:57.600 it would need and uh and in the various parts 0:18:57.640 --> 0:19:00.359 of the world in which it's reported to have been anist, 0:19:00.640 --> 0:19:02.600 then I feel like the case just grows less and 0:19:02.680 --> 0:19:05.800 less impressive. But then you have someone like Melba Ketchum 0:19:06.040 --> 0:19:09.639 who is saying, hey, here is some possible proof, or 0:19:09.640 --> 0:19:13.200 even saying there is proof species exists. Yes, tex And 0:19:13.240 --> 0:19:17.080 veterinarian Dr. Melba s Ketchum uh contends that her research 0:19:17.119 --> 0:19:19.600 teams five year genome sequencing study of a hundred and 0:19:19.600 --> 0:19:22.879 twenty to alleged bigfoot DNA samples because they are tufts 0:19:22.880 --> 0:19:26.040 of hair and whatnot that have been collected by by 0:19:26.119 --> 0:19:29.359 bigfoot hair hunters out there in the wild Anyway, she 0:19:29.400 --> 0:19:32.520 says that she claims that their findings point to a 0:19:32.600 --> 0:19:36.000 hybrid species that split from Homo sapiens and an unknown 0:19:36.080 --> 0:19:41.480 hominid species some thirteen thousand years ago. Now she published 0:19:41.520 --> 0:19:45.560 her results. Yes, now you you probably have not heard 0:19:45.600 --> 0:19:48.920 of the scientific journal that published them, uh DiNovo Scientific 0:19:49.000 --> 0:19:52.800 Journalists what is called because it did not exist before 0:19:53.080 --> 0:19:56.280 publishing this study, and her catch them study is the 0:19:56.359 --> 0:20:00.760 only study that it has ever published. Um So it 0:20:00.840 --> 0:20:02.639 was not pure reviewed. It did not show up in 0:20:02.680 --> 0:20:05.320 any of the normal scientific journals that we would mention 0:20:05.440 --> 0:20:08.120 on this this podcast. So this kind of a red flag. 0:20:08.400 --> 0:20:12.119 And critics have charged that her samples were likely contaminated 0:20:12.240 --> 0:20:15.320 because you have inexperienced evidence gatherers out there that are 0:20:15.640 --> 0:20:18.760 end up introducing their own DNA onto the animal samples 0:20:18.760 --> 0:20:21.320 that they bring in. There sneezing, their coughing, they're breathing heavily, 0:20:21.359 --> 0:20:23.760 what have you. They So they bring in a contaminated 0:20:23.840 --> 0:20:26.879 sample which then wants is analyze. You end up with 0:20:26.920 --> 0:20:31.760 confusing and misleading results. So again, the problem with this 0:20:32.240 --> 0:20:36.720 is starting at the assumption that, um, that the animal 0:20:36.760 --> 0:20:39.680 exists right right, and and that's clear from the get 0:20:39.680 --> 0:20:41.800 go just by you know, just go to her website, 0:20:42.200 --> 0:20:44.200 looks at the logo, look at the mission statement of 0:20:44.200 --> 0:20:46.920 the organization, and you see that that they have they 0:20:46.960 --> 0:20:49.960 have an intention in mind. Yeah. Daniel Laxon, he's a 0:20:49.960 --> 0:20:52.800 co author of the book A Vulnerable Science Origins of 0:20:52.800 --> 0:20:55.840 the Yetti NeSSI and other famous criptis, says quote. A 0:20:55.920 --> 0:20:59.520 scientist generally starts with a conservative working assumption that proposed 0:20:59.600 --> 0:21:02.479 new idea are not true. This is so important, right, 0:21:02.480 --> 0:21:04.439 We've talked about it so over and over again, or 0:21:04.480 --> 0:21:08.160 that hypothetical new entities do not exist, and then revises 0:21:08.440 --> 0:21:13.080 her probability estimate upwards only when the evidence forces her 0:21:13.119 --> 0:21:15.560 to do so, he says. A pseudo scientist, on the 0:21:15.600 --> 0:21:17.920 other hand, typically starts with the assumption that a novel 0:21:17.960 --> 0:21:20.399 pro puzzle seems to be true, and then revises her 0:21:20.400 --> 0:21:24.600 probability downward as the evidence leaves her no choice if 0:21:24.640 --> 0:21:27.040 she is willing to surrender the possibility to do to 0:21:27.160 --> 0:21:30.280 any degree at all. So we've talked about cognitive bias 0:21:30.280 --> 0:21:32.320 all the time. This idea that we continue to sort 0:21:32.359 --> 0:21:35.800 of add weight to this argument that we really want 0:21:35.840 --> 0:21:38.840 to be true, and we begin to assemble patterns where 0:21:38.840 --> 0:21:41.959 sometimes there are none exactly. So yeah, as you go 0:21:42.000 --> 0:21:45.440