1
00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,760
Speaker 1: Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel and I'm Matt

2
00:00:02,920 --> 00:00:06,240
Speaker 1: and today we're discussing getting rich Slowly and dealing with

3
00:00:06,320 --> 00:00:28,040
Speaker 1: money anxiety with j d Roth. Y Eduel Today's guest

4
00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:30,920
Speaker 1: as personal finance writer j D Roth, who started his

5
00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:34,320
Speaker 1: blog Get Rich Slowly in the in the early years

6
00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:36,400
Speaker 1: of the Internet. Right this is back in two thousand

7
00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:38,440
Speaker 1: and six. Well, it's a long time. I think Facebook

8
00:00:38,479 --> 00:00:41,440
Speaker 1: had just launched as well, so j D and Mark

9
00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:44,519
Speaker 1: two heavy hitters early on. But it's grown to be

10
00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:47,560
Speaker 1: one of the most well respected personal finance sites around

11
00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:51,120
Speaker 1: thanks to his superb writing and his desire to serve

12
00:00:51,159 --> 00:00:54,680
Speaker 1: as readers. Oh and he's also a huge Taylor Swift fan.

13
00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:58,200
Speaker 1: That's important. Uh, j D? Does that make you a Swifty?

14
00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:01,200
Speaker 1: It does make me a Swift. I don't know if

15
00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:03,440
Speaker 1: you were you're that committed, but I'm glad to hear

16
00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:05,560
Speaker 1: you are. But thanks so much for joining us on

17
00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:08,760
Speaker 1: the podcast today. Man, hey, thanks for having me. Oh

18
00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:11,440
Speaker 1: j D. We're so glad to have you today. Seriously. Yeah,

19
00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:12,760
Speaker 1: your site has been around a long time and it's

20
00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:15,000
Speaker 1: helped so many people, and there's a lot of wisdom

21
00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:16,840
Speaker 1: in there that we can't wait to kind of unpack

22
00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:19,119
Speaker 1: and get out of your brain. For our listeners today

23
00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:21,360
Speaker 1: on the show, and by the way, j d every

24
00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:24,240
Speaker 1: week on the show, we drink a beer, a craft

25
00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:26,800
Speaker 1: beer because Matt and I, for us, it's really important

26
00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:30,479
Speaker 1: to prioritize the here and now, prioritize something that we value,

27
00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:34,440
Speaker 1: uh today, while we're trying to be intentional and say

28
00:01:34,520 --> 00:01:37,080
Speaker 1: for the future. So our first question to every guest is,

29
00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:42,440
Speaker 1: what's your splurge? What is j d ross craft beer equivalent? Well,

30
00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:46,720
Speaker 1: it might be craft beer. Oh that's what we love. Yeah,

31
00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:49,800
Speaker 1: I actually have a better answer, but uh, I was

32
00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:53,160
Speaker 1: drinking a local. I live in Portland, Oregon. Portland, Oregon

33
00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:56,200
Speaker 1: has a lot of craft beers, you do, So I

34
00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:58,680
Speaker 1: was just drinking some craft beer earlier. Although right now

35
00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:02,080
Speaker 1: I'm drinking my favorite skot twhiskey tenure Ard Bag. I

36
00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:05,360
Speaker 1: love that stuff. Oh man, Matt's a big Scotch fan too,

37
00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:06,960
Speaker 1: by the way, so you guys can talking about on that.

38
00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:09,520
Speaker 1: I've got a bottle of art Bag literally just over

39
00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:13,200
Speaker 1: to my right on the shelf, and I don't generally

40
00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:15,519
Speaker 1: drink it at five twenty three in the evening, which

41
00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:18,480
Speaker 1: is what time I am recording this podcast, but I

42
00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:20,760
Speaker 1: am drinking it at five three in the evening right now.

43
00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:25,160
Speaker 1: Uh no, my big splurge, I would say season tickets

44
00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:28,959
Speaker 1: for the Portland Timbers major League soccer team. I'm a

45
00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:32,639
Speaker 1: huge fan. I've been a fan for Oh my gosh,

46
00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:35,480
Speaker 1: do I have to do the math forty four years so?

47
00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:38,960
Speaker 1: And and I know season tickets. You you actually wrote

48
00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:40,720
Speaker 1: about this at one point on your site or or

49
00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:42,800
Speaker 1: I heard you talk about it somewhere. We we knew

50
00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:44,720
Speaker 1: that you love soccer, and Matt and I were huge

51
00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:48,080
Speaker 1: soccer fans too. We actually moved the interview tonight. We

52
00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:50,440
Speaker 1: asked you, and we knew you would understand as a

53
00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:52,359
Speaker 1: as a huge soccer fan because there's an important game

54
00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:55,800
Speaker 1: for our Atlanta United coming up late the playoffs. Yeah

55
00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:58,840
Speaker 1: that's right. And the Timbers just bombed out of the playoffs.

56
00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:01,760
Speaker 1: But alright, know so, and we didn't want to rub

57
00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:03,640
Speaker 1: it in, but I think we will. Yeah, I'm sorry

58
00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:06,840
Speaker 1: about last year's final. Oh that's right, that's right. You

59
00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:09,160
Speaker 1: guys need us two zero in the finals. I forgot

60
00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:11,960
Speaker 1: about that, kind of wiped it from my memory. I know,

61
00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:14,600
Speaker 1: I understand, so, so tell us your thoughts on being

62
00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:17,840
Speaker 1: a season ticket holder for a major league soccer team, Like,

63
00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:21,240
Speaker 1: it's an expensive thing, is so what drives you to

64
00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:24,720
Speaker 1: actually maintain that expense in your life? Well, for me,

65
00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:27,720
Speaker 1: it's something that I've been so passionate about for so long,

66
00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:31,359
Speaker 1: and I just love going to the games. But honestly,

67
00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:34,760
Speaker 1: more and more I can't justify the expense. You're right,

68
00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:37,680
Speaker 1: I did write about this earlier this year. The tickets

69
00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:41,280
Speaker 1: for two thousand, twenty I I get two tickets. The

70
00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:45,720
Speaker 1: combined price is going to I meanifty dollars per seat,

71
00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:48,080
Speaker 1: divided by seventeen games. I can't do the math off

72
00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:50,880
Speaker 1: the top of my head. It's probably seventy a game.

73
00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:54,200
Speaker 1: But the games cost more than just that. It costs

74
00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:56,120
Speaker 1: money to get up there, it costs money to park,

75
00:03:56,160 --> 00:03:59,160
Speaker 1: it costs money. If I want to drink craft Beard

76
00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:02,040
Speaker 1: the game, it cost ten dollars and fifty cents per beer,

77
00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:06,640
Speaker 1: which is ridiculous. It's ridiculous. And so my girlfriend and

78
00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:11,120
Speaker 1: I figure we spend about two hundred dollars per game combined,

79
00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:13,800
Speaker 1: so a hundred dollars per person per game, and that's

80
00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:17,599
Speaker 1: seventeen games per season, seventeen home games. It's been a

81
00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:21,839
Speaker 1: splurge that I've been fine with for for the timpers

82
00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:24,279
Speaker 1: came in two thousand eleven, So next year be the

83
00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:27,080
Speaker 1: tenth year. I've been fine with it for that ten years.

84
00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:29,640
Speaker 1: But more and more, I'm like, I don't know what

85
00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:33,840
Speaker 1: could I do with roughly four thousand dollars about I

86
00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:37,479
Speaker 1: guess I feel like I could do so much more

87
00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:39,839
Speaker 1: with that money. I mean, I could buy a cable

88
00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:43,720
Speaker 1: package that let me watch the games, first of all,

89
00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:46,159
Speaker 1: or I could just when I wanted to see a game,

90
00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:48,839
Speaker 1: I could go down to a local pub and drink

91
00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:53,159
Speaker 1: craft beer and watch the game with other fans. So

92
00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:56,760
Speaker 1: for two thousand one, I don't know what I'm gonna do. Well,

93
00:04:57,080 --> 00:05:00,320
Speaker 1: hopefully we didn't talk you out of it. I don't know.

94
00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:02,200
Speaker 1: I think I've been talking myself out over from I'm

95
00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:05,520
Speaker 1: glad we can kind of share in the fandom there

96
00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:07,839
Speaker 1: with you, Jie. Let's let's talk about money some We

97
00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:10,719
Speaker 1: want to start at the beginning. Essentially, Um, you know

98
00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:14,120
Speaker 1: you've called yourself sort of an accidental personal finance expert,

99
00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:15,920
Speaker 1: Like what do you mean by that? Can you tell

100
00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:20,600
Speaker 1: us how you got into nording out on personal finance information? Yeah?

101
00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:24,520
Speaker 1: So When I say that I'm an accidental personal finance expert,

102
00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:28,120
Speaker 1: I mean that I don't have any sort of formal

103
00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:31,640
Speaker 1: training in this. I'm not an accountant, I don't have

104
00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:36,159
Speaker 1: a finance degree. I'm not a certified financial planner. I

105
00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:39,719
Speaker 1: didn't set out to be somebody who people went to

106
00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:44,320
Speaker 1: for financial advice. Instead, during the nine nineties, I got

107
00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:46,880
Speaker 1: myself deep in consumer debt, with credit cards and car

108
00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:52,280
Speaker 1: loans and mortgages, and I was really struggling, and so

109
00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:55,360
Speaker 1: I decided I needed to get out of debt. I

110
00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:58,440
Speaker 1: started reading all sorts of books, like Dave Ramsey's Total

111
00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:01,599
Speaker 1: Money Makeover and book called Your Money or Your Life

112
00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:04,880
Speaker 1: by Vicky Robin and Joe Dominguez. And I read these

113
00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:07,760
Speaker 1: books and I thought they all kind of said the

114
00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:10,480
Speaker 1: same thing. They said, there's no reliable way to get

115
00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:13,280
Speaker 1: rich quickly, but there is a reliable way to get

116
00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:16,039
Speaker 1: rich slowly, and so I kind of took that to heart.

117
00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:19,080
Speaker 1: And because I was a nerd, I've been blogging for

118
00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:21,120
Speaker 1: a number of years already. I always say that I've

119
00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:24,359
Speaker 1: been blogging since before blog was even a word. I

120
00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:29,440
Speaker 1: started in and Uh In two thousand six, I started

121
00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:33,400
Speaker 1: a website called get rich slowly dot Org, and I

122
00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:35,279
Speaker 1: didn't expect anybody would read it. I was just going

123
00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:38,560
Speaker 1: to document my own journey out of debt. But for

124
00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:40,680
Speaker 1: whatever reason, I was in the right place at the

125
00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:44,080
Speaker 1: right time, and I was able to connect with a

126
00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:47,480
Speaker 1: lot of people, and people liked what I was writing,

127
00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:50,040
Speaker 1: and it was helping other people get out of debt. So,

128
00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:54,960
Speaker 1: over the course the last fourteen years, man, that's crazy,

129
00:06:55,800 --> 00:06:57,480
Speaker 1: thirteen and a half years, let's call it thirteen and

130
00:06:57,520 --> 00:07:02,520
Speaker 1: a half, I've been writing about personal finance, writing about

131
00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:04,160
Speaker 1: getting out of debt, and then once I was out

132
00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:07,080
Speaker 1: of debt, I started writing about building wealth. You know,

133
00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:11,200
Speaker 1: your story is not terribly dissimilar to so many others

134
00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:13,240
Speaker 1: in this space. J D. Right. We we go to

135
00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:15,480
Speaker 1: a conference every year called Finncon, and we we meet

136
00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:18,600
Speaker 1: all sorts of people who became passionate through personal experience.

137
00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:21,400
Speaker 1: More than anything. They began to document their personal experience,

138
00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:22,960
Speaker 1: and then they began to share it, and then it

139
00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:25,760
Speaker 1: became this kind of thing, this cathartic thing, really to

140
00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:28,720
Speaker 1: help them get through their own money struggles. And then

141
00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:31,400
Speaker 1: guess what, it ended up helping other people be able

142
00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:33,840
Speaker 1: to have someone who identify with be able to kind

143
00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:36,160
Speaker 1: of learn some lessons along the way, and get Garrige

144
00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:38,520
Speaker 1: slowly has has been able to do that, but then

145
00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:41,560
Speaker 1: has gone even further. But when you were going through

146
00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:44,280
Speaker 1: this process and we were documenting kind of how you

147
00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:47,000
Speaker 1: were trying to change your personal finances, well, what were

148
00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:49,080
Speaker 1: some of the things that we're tripping you up the

149
00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:51,920
Speaker 1: most that made you realize that you needed to make

150
00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:55,400
Speaker 1: a change. Oh, that's that's a great question. There were

151
00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:59,920
Speaker 1: so many things. I'm a natural born spender. That's the

152
00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:02,320
Speaker 1: first thing to understand. I'm not somebody who is naturally

153
00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:04,600
Speaker 1: good with money. I have to force myself to be

154
00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:08,720
Speaker 1: good with money. And I didn't have good role models.

155
00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:12,280
Speaker 1: And my parents, both my mom and my dad were spenders.

156
00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:14,320
Speaker 1: They were spenders in different ways, but they were spenders,

157
00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:17,600
Speaker 1: and so I didn't have anybody to set a good

158
00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:19,960
Speaker 1: example for me. I just when I grew up, I thought,

159
00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:23,320
Speaker 1: if you had money, you spent it. For me, it

160
00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:26,280
Speaker 1: was just a process with get rich Slowly of of

161
00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:28,520
Speaker 1: like telling my story and trying to tell other people's

162
00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:32,200
Speaker 1: stories about how even if you're not good with money,

163
00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:35,680
Speaker 1: when you start, you can develop better habits. And the

164
00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:38,280
Speaker 1: thing is you don't have to be perfect. So much

165
00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:41,840
Speaker 1: personal finance writing, I think, focuses on this ideal as

166
00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:44,520
Speaker 1: if we're robots, and they're like, oh, this is the

167
00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:46,080
Speaker 1: way you need to do it, and if you don't

168
00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:48,520
Speaker 1: do it this way, then you're doing it wrong. But

169
00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:53,000
Speaker 1: that's like an ideal world, and there's so much psychology

170
00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:56,600
Speaker 1: and emotion involved with it that I think a lot

171
00:08:56,640 --> 00:09:00,360
Speaker 1: of mainstream personal finance misses that. And so for me,

172
00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:02,440
Speaker 1: I want to tell my story and tell other people's

173
00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:05,080
Speaker 1: stories and share not only the things we do right,

174
00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:07,960
Speaker 1: but how we stumble and how we fall and then

175
00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:10,360
Speaker 1: how we recover from that. Well, JD, you mentioned how

176
00:09:10,559 --> 00:09:14,120
Speaker 1: right you're you're a spender, right, you didn't do great things,

177
00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:16,120
Speaker 1: you know, with your money, at least at the time.

178
00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:18,360
Speaker 1: It makes me think back in the day, like how

179
00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:20,520
Speaker 1: credit card companies used to set up a table for

180
00:09:20,559 --> 00:09:24,000
Speaker 1: sign ups on you know, on college campuses, Like specifically,

181
00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:26,760
Speaker 1: I remember signing up for a new credit card and

182
00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:32,440
Speaker 1: getting a pizza, like right there on the spot bonus

183
00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:35,280
Speaker 1: i've ever heard of, by the way, especially gets under

184
00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:37,600
Speaker 1: all the great ones out there now pizza, Come on, man.

185
00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:40,760
Speaker 1: But JD, do you have a story similar to share.

186
00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:42,880
Speaker 1: I feel like I've read something about you doing something

187
00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:47,640
Speaker 1: similar about signing up for a crappy giveaway. Well, I

188
00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:50,560
Speaker 1: never got any good credit card sign up bonuses I wish,

189
00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:53,160
Speaker 1: but I did something similar with my bank account. So

190
00:09:53,240 --> 00:09:56,040
Speaker 1: like it was the first day of my freshman year

191
00:09:56,040 --> 00:09:59,880
Speaker 1: of college, I'm registering for classes in the gym, going

192
00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:03,160
Speaker 1: around from table to table, looking at the different opportunities.

193
00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:07,160
Speaker 1: And along with the different departments, they've got like offers

194
00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:10,559
Speaker 1: from banks and credit card companies. And there were two

195
00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:13,840
Speaker 1: two opportunities to sign up for a bank account, and

196
00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:17,040
Speaker 1: one bank account it was local credit Union and you

197
00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:19,480
Speaker 1: didn't get anything. It was a free checking account. That

198
00:10:19,559 --> 00:10:22,440
Speaker 1: was it. I was like, okay, whatever over the next

199
00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:25,840
Speaker 1: table and it's the big national bank and if you

200
00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:29,560
Speaker 1: sign up for a checking account, you get a free Frisbee.

201
00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:38,080
Speaker 1: Free Frisbee about the pizza very well, and plus I

202
00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:39,880
Speaker 1: had to pay five dollars a month for the account,

203
00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:44,160
Speaker 1: but I didn't my parents always paid for their checking account.

204
00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:46,000
Speaker 1: I was like, whatever, I can pay for my checking

205
00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:49,120
Speaker 1: account too, So I signed up for the checking account,

206
00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:52,000
Speaker 1: and I'm sure that Frisbee costs them less than five dollars.

207
00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:56,920
Speaker 1: Back in seven so in the first month, they'd made

208
00:10:56,960 --> 00:10:59,760
Speaker 1: back that whatever the frisbee cost. And I went out

209
00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:01,600
Speaker 1: and tossed the frisbee on the quad a couple of

210
00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:04,560
Speaker 1: times and then put it away and never used it again.

211
00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:09,560
Speaker 1: And I had that bank account. Oh, it's like fifteen years,

212
00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:12,720
Speaker 1: sixteen years something like that, maybe even seventeen. So I

213
00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:14,640
Speaker 1: kept paying that five dollar a month fee, and then

214
00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:16,080
Speaker 1: it was a seven dollar a monthly, and then it

215
00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:18,240
Speaker 1: was an eight dollar a month fee. I just kept

216
00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:21,760
Speaker 1: paying it for all those years, all because I wanted

217
00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:24,480
Speaker 1: a free frisbee that wasn't really free. So j D

218
00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:27,600
Speaker 1: you mentioned, okay, you mentioned kind of getting a plan together, right, like,

219
00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:29,680
Speaker 1: you reached a point in your life when you you're

220
00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:33,320
Speaker 1: basically tired of of missing payments, you're tired of bounce checks.

221
00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:35,959
Speaker 1: What did that specifically look like for you to put

222
00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:39,040
Speaker 1: together that plan and why was that plan so important

223
00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:43,120
Speaker 1: for you as you move towards eliminating your debt. So

224
00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:45,120
Speaker 1: I don't want to first of all, I don't want

225
00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:46,640
Speaker 1: to make it sound like the way I did it.

226
00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:48,640
Speaker 1: It's the right way. In fact, it's probably only right

227
00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:53,800
Speaker 1: for me. So I'm laughing because it's kind of a

228
00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:59,120
Speaker 1: weird t m I type story. I'd like to take baths, okay,

229
00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:02,120
Speaker 1: And my then wife and I we had bought this

230
00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:05,400
Speaker 1: gigantic cloth bathtub, so I we we both like to

231
00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:06,840
Speaker 1: take baths. And I was taking a bath and I

232
00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:11,000
Speaker 1: was reading a book. Um what was it called. That

233
00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:12,960
Speaker 1: doesn't matter what it's called. I was reading as reading

234
00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:16,720
Speaker 1: the money Book, and I just got this inspiration. Like

235
00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:18,840
Speaker 1: this was two thousand four, when I was deep deep

236
00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:21,160
Speaker 1: in debt. I got this inspiration. I'm like, oh my god,

237
00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:23,120
Speaker 1: I could do these things and I could get out

238
00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:26,120
Speaker 1: of debt. So I got out of the bathtub. I

239
00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:28,960
Speaker 1: didn't even tell off. I went and tripping wet into

240
00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:31,720
Speaker 1: the dining room table and I sat down there naked

241
00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:33,320
Speaker 1: with a pen and paper. There's pan and paper at

242
00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:38,240
Speaker 1: the table, hard it is. And I was like, okay,

243
00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:40,520
Speaker 1: this is what I'm gonna do. I had been reading

244
00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:44,400
Speaker 1: Dave Ramsey by then, and I had bought into his

245
00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:48,160
Speaker 1: version of the debt snowball, which is where you pay

246
00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:51,559
Speaker 1: the little balances first. There are other versions of the

247
00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:55,200
Speaker 1: debt snowball, but that's the Dave Ramsey version. When you

248
00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:57,840
Speaker 1: pay off the load balances first, you're knocking out debts

249
00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:01,520
Speaker 1: as quickly as possible, just getting rid of the small debts. Anyway,

250
00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:03,520
Speaker 1: I sat down and I wrote out, Okay, what are

251
00:13:03,559 --> 00:13:06,200
Speaker 1: the balances on my different credit cards, what are the

252
00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:08,680
Speaker 1: balances on my car loan? How much do I owe

253
00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:11,640
Speaker 1: my mom? What do I need to do to get

254
00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:14,440
Speaker 1: out of debt? And so I wrote it all down

255
00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:18,520
Speaker 1: and I formulated this plan. And this was October two fourteen.

256
00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:22,040
Speaker 1: Finally I got dressed, got my computer, typed it into

257
00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:24,760
Speaker 1: a text document, not a not a Microsoft word document.

258
00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:27,120
Speaker 1: It was a text document. I did the math, and

259
00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:30,960
Speaker 1: I saw that I could be debt free by December

260
00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:33,720
Speaker 1: two thousand seventeen. It was gonna be thirty nine months.

261
00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:37,760
Speaker 1: And so I just that text document became my road map.

262
00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:41,520
Speaker 1: And believe it or not, it was exactly to the

263
00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:45,120
Speaker 1: month thirty nine months it took me to get out

264
00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:47,280
Speaker 1: of debt from the time I decided to follow that plan.

265
00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:49,559
Speaker 1: And so that plan was kind of like your guiding

266
00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:51,959
Speaker 1: light for every single one of those thirty nine months.

267
00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:54,800
Speaker 1: I gather. Yeah, And the important thing to know is

268
00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:58,520
Speaker 1: I there were times I messed up. There's no doubt

269
00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:01,520
Speaker 1: I made some mistakes, and so I had fallen behind.

270
00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:02,800
Speaker 1: But there were some months where I was like, oh

271
00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:04,520
Speaker 1: my gosh, I made so much extra this month. I

272
00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:08,160
Speaker 1: can pay extra on my debts. And so even though

273
00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:10,600
Speaker 1: I didn't follow it like to the letter, I just

274
00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:12,760
Speaker 1: that that map was always there. It's kind of like

275
00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:15,800
Speaker 1: if you're going to you're driving from Portland to Atlanta

276
00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:20,600
Speaker 1: and you're you've got a route mapped out, but you're like, oh, well,

277
00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:22,600
Speaker 1: I'm supposed to go through Denver, but I'd rather go

278
00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:24,640
Speaker 1: down through Santa Fe And so you go down to

279
00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:26,240
Speaker 1: Santa Fe and then you cut over to New Orleans

280
00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:29,840
Speaker 1: instead of going through Topeka or something. I still managed

281
00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:31,600
Speaker 1: to make it work. I got there in thirty nine months,

282
00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:35,000
Speaker 1: even though it wasn't exactly the way I had planned it. Well,

283
00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:37,000
Speaker 1: I'm not sure why you're avoiding Topeka, j D. It's

284
00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:39,960
Speaker 1: a great it's a great time. But I think, you know,

285
00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:41,240
Speaker 1: you make a great point. And I think it's really

286
00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:43,480
Speaker 1: important too, because there's there's a lot of folks, especially

287
00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:45,800
Speaker 1: like in our Facebook group. So many times people ask

288
00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:48,240
Speaker 1: the question like, hey, how do I get back on

289
00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:53,080
Speaker 1: track after you know, big snaffoo, after an unexpected expense

290
00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:55,480
Speaker 1: that I wasn't you know, I hadn't planned for, and

291
00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:57,080
Speaker 1: that can be a really tough thing. And I think

292
00:14:57,120 --> 00:15:00,240
Speaker 1: having that plan and knowing that you can hop con

293
00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:03,000
Speaker 1: or take a different route and still get to that

294
00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:05,600
Speaker 1: end goal is so helpful, so important, and it's something

295
00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:08,480
Speaker 1: we have to mention because that's just a common human experience, right,

296
00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:10,960
Speaker 1: a common money experience for all of us as we're

297
00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:13,800
Speaker 1: you know, headed towards towards that final goal that we're

298
00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:15,640
Speaker 1: that we're aiming for. All Right, We've got so many

299
00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:18,360
Speaker 1: more questions for j D, including actually we don't really

300
00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:20,680
Speaker 1: talk about politics on the podcast, but j D just

301
00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:23,720
Speaker 1: recently wrote about politics inside of personal finance, and we

302
00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:34,640
Speaker 1: have to get to that right after the break. All Right,

303
00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:36,920
Speaker 1: we're back from the break. We're talking with j D Roth.

304
00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:40,320
Speaker 1: Let's let's talk some j D about your website, your blog.

305
00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:42,800
Speaker 1: It's called get Rich Slowly. You know, you just mentioned

306
00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:45,160
Speaker 1: how you named it. You named it get rich Slowly

307
00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:49,720
Speaker 1: because you're not into getting rich quickly, right, Like there

308
00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:52,600
Speaker 1: aren't uh the schemes, you know, like they get rich

309
00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:54,880
Speaker 1: quick plans. That's that's not what you're going After you

310
00:15:54,920 --> 00:15:57,280
Speaker 1: realize that this is going to be a kind of

311
00:15:57,320 --> 00:16:00,760
Speaker 1: a long deliberate process, and you you named your your

312
00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:03,040
Speaker 1: site accordingly. I want to talk about how you sold

313
00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:06,840
Speaker 1: your blog actually at one point for a rather large

314
00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:09,360
Speaker 1: amount of money, and then you actually ended up buying

315
00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:12,720
Speaker 1: it back again a few years later. But this leads

316
00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:14,640
Speaker 1: to a couple of questions for you. Not many folks

317
00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:17,760
Speaker 1: experience like a lump sum windfall like that. So do

318
00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:21,240
Speaker 1: you have any advice for folks who inherit or earn

319
00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:24,560
Speaker 1: a large sum of money at once. Yes, yes, yes,

320
00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:27,520
Speaker 1: that's a great question. So so you're right. The the

321
00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:31,440
Speaker 1: irony of running a site called get rich Solely is

322
00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:34,160
Speaker 1: I got rich quickly from it, and that was never

323
00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:37,000
Speaker 1: my intention. I did not start out with the idea that, oh,

324
00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:39,720
Speaker 1: I'm gonna make big bucks from this. I didn't even well.

325
00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:41,600
Speaker 1: I knew you could make some spare change from it

326
00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:44,120
Speaker 1: in two thousands six and that that I when I

327
00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:46,880
Speaker 1: started get Rich Solely, I thought, oh, maybe I'll make

328
00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:49,200
Speaker 1: a little bit of extra income to help me pay

329
00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:51,160
Speaker 1: off debt. But I was I wasn't trying to get rich,

330
00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:54,840
Speaker 1: and in fact, I didn't even believe it was possible

331
00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:57,520
Speaker 1: until like a month before I sold the site. That

332
00:16:57,560 --> 00:17:00,240
Speaker 1: I've been getting all these emails saying, hey want to

333
00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:01,680
Speaker 1: sell the site. You want to sell the site, and

334
00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:05,119
Speaker 1: I'm like, what is it's all about. I finally decided, okay,

335
00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:07,600
Speaker 1: I will listen to what they have to say. And

336
00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:10,920
Speaker 1: it turns out people were very serious about buying the site,

337
00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:15,120
Speaker 1: and so I sold it. I got a large lump sum.

338
00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:17,040
Speaker 1: I would love to reveal how much it was, but

339
00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:20,000
Speaker 1: I can't because of a nondisclosure agreement. You sign one

340
00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:23,760
Speaker 1: of those d s. Yes, but it was a big amount.

341
00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:27,520
Speaker 1: It was a life changing amount, and I could have

342
00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:30,359
Speaker 1: done what many people would do and go out and

343
00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:36,159
Speaker 1: buy big houses and fancy cars and travel around the world.

344
00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:39,399
Speaker 1: But I didn't do that. The younger me would have

345
00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:42,720
Speaker 1: done that ten years ago or ten years before this.

346
00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:46,760
Speaker 1: This was in two thousand nine. If I had received

347
00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:50,440
Speaker 1: a huge windfall, I would have done dumb things with it.

348
00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:53,400
Speaker 1: But because I had been reading and writing about personal finance,

349
00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:56,800
Speaker 1: I knew that wasn't wise. So what I did is

350
00:17:56,840 --> 00:17:59,119
Speaker 1: I said, Okay, I'm gonna set aside a certain amount,

351
00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:01,560
Speaker 1: and I say, in public as you should set aside

352
00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:04,480
Speaker 1: five percent. So if you get a hundred thousand dollar windfall,

353
00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:08,200
Speaker 1: you should use five thousand dollars UH to just spend

354
00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:10,800
Speaker 1: on whatever you want. And in my case in two

355
00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:13,160
Speaker 1: thousand nine, you'll remember this is at the bottom of

356
00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:17,600
Speaker 1: the financial collapse. Basically, I decided to buy some very

357
00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:21,080
Speaker 1: very nice furniture, which I still have. It was expensive

358
00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:26,480
Speaker 1: furniture that was discounted or more. I bought a used

359
00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:28,919
Speaker 1: Mini Cooper because I had been wanting a Mini Cooper,

360
00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:33,359
Speaker 1: and I took a vacation to bay Lash, small country

361
00:18:33,359 --> 00:18:37,960
Speaker 1: in Central America. That's what I used the money displurage

362
00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:41,080
Speaker 1: on and then I stuck the rest in just mutual

363
00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:44,400
Speaker 1: funds and that's where it's remained ever since. Dang, good

364
00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:48,640
Speaker 1: time to stash the money in mutual I know, it's amazing.

365
00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:50,640
Speaker 1: Well now, I love that rule of thumb to five

366
00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:53,879
Speaker 1: to blow because I think sometimes people trying to get

367
00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:56,679
Speaker 1: their money act together, if they do receive an inheritance

368
00:18:57,040 --> 00:18:59,320
Speaker 1: or something like that happens in money falls into their

369
00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:01,320
Speaker 1: to their lab out of nowhere. They just have no

370
00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:03,120
Speaker 1: idea what to do, and some people blow it all.

371
00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:06,040
Speaker 1: And some people don't give themselves any liberty to have

372
00:19:06,119 --> 00:19:08,320
Speaker 1: some fun with it, and so to be able to

373
00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:10,879
Speaker 1: take five or ten of that windfall and and use

374
00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:12,520
Speaker 1: it in a way by a jet ski or what

375
00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:15,080
Speaker 1: or whatever it is that you're you're into. I think

376
00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:17,520
Speaker 1: it is a good way to go well. And I

377
00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:20,119
Speaker 1: want to say that I brought up the furniture and

378
00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:23,600
Speaker 1: it kind of sounds silly, but this is it's Stickley furniture.

379
00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:26,159
Speaker 1: I don't know whether you're many things like that arts

380
00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:28,439
Speaker 1: and craft kind of stuff. It's an arts and crafts

381
00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:32,920
Speaker 1: time and stuff. It's very fancy and I love having

382
00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:34,560
Speaker 1: it in my living room. And every time I go

383
00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:37,080
Speaker 1: in and I sit down and my Stickley recliner, I'm like,

384
00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:40,879
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, this is just amazing. And I don't know,

385
00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:42,840
Speaker 1: it's like this thing that sticks with me, and I'm

386
00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:44,800
Speaker 1: glad that I have it, and I'm glad that I

387
00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:47,840
Speaker 1: spent that money. So I guess what I'm saying is, yeah,

388
00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:50,160
Speaker 1: if you get a windfall, use a little bit of it,

389
00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:53,040
Speaker 1: but try to be like thoughtful about what you're blowing

390
00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:54,679
Speaker 1: it on. What is it it's going to bring you

391
00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:57,200
Speaker 1: value long term? Old j D. And And the other

392
00:19:57,240 --> 00:19:59,440
Speaker 1: thing is too, is that you actually like you bought

393
00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:02,840
Speaker 1: the site back, correct, like you you repurchased it. I

394
00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:05,280
Speaker 1: would love for you to talk some about that, like like,

395
00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:08,800
Speaker 1: why is it that you actually repurchased your own sites? Well, okay,

396
00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:11,560
Speaker 1: so first of all, this is well, I've heard of

397
00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:14,080
Speaker 1: a number of people doing this. They sell their businesses

398
00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:17,119
Speaker 1: and then they buy them back. In my case, I

399
00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:19,520
Speaker 1: won't say that it was the smartest financial decision. It

400
00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:22,440
Speaker 1: was an emotional decision and I know that. So the

401
00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:25,280
Speaker 1: people who bought get RICHELI, they did a great job

402
00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:27,439
Speaker 1: with it for a number of years, but then for

403
00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:31,359
Speaker 1: whatever reason, it became less of a priority priority to

404
00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:35,040
Speaker 1: them and it started to fall into decline. And I

405
00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:38,000
Speaker 1: watched it kind of fall into decline. So I contacted

406
00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:39,760
Speaker 1: them and said, hey, what's going on. Do you have

407
00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:42,679
Speaker 1: any interest in selling it? And they did so I

408
00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:44,520
Speaker 1: bought it back for much less than I had paid

409
00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:47,879
Speaker 1: for it, and but it was it was still a

410
00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:52,119
Speaker 1: sizeable amount. And again I didn't do it as a

411
00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:55,280
Speaker 1: business decision. I'm glad I did it. I have no regrets.

412
00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:58,920
Speaker 1: But I did it as an emotional decision because when

413
00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:01,439
Speaker 1: I sold the site, I sold all the rights to

414
00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:04,320
Speaker 1: the material that I had produced there, and now by

415
00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:06,879
Speaker 1: buying it back, I have the rights to use it again.

416
00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:09,040
Speaker 1: I could do whatever I want with it, and plus

417
00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:12,159
Speaker 1: I have the brand back. I In the interim, it

418
00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:14,359
Speaker 1: was about eight years I think between the time I

419
00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:16,320
Speaker 1: sold it in the time I bought it back, I

420
00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:19,440
Speaker 1: had started another site called money Boss, and I liked

421
00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:21,919
Speaker 1: money Boss. Money Boss was great, but it wasn't the

422
00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:24,880
Speaker 1: same as Get Rich Slowly. So there you go. I'm

423
00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:28,000
Speaker 1: happy to have bought it back. Yeah, that's super interesting.

424
00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:29,520
Speaker 1: All right, Hey, we talked. We said we were going

425
00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:32,560
Speaker 1: to talk about politics for a second. Here. Bring it on,

426
00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:35,600
Speaker 1: or at least the politics of personal finance. You took

427
00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:38,760
Speaker 1: issue recently with an article in the Washington Post that

428
00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:42,160
Speaker 1: was advocating for more politics. We mentioned earlier the conference

429
00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:45,520
Speaker 1: that we attend almost every year at Finncon, and it's

430
00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:48,560
Speaker 1: a great conference full it's money media folks meeting together.

431
00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:52,119
Speaker 1: And then you wrote a response to that Washington Post article.

432
00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:55,720
Speaker 1: Can you share your thoughts on why you thought the

433
00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:57,840
Speaker 1: author of that article was wrong and why you think

434
00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:00,600
Speaker 1: kind of politics should be left out of these personal

435
00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:03,720
Speaker 1: finance discussions. Well, I don't think they should be left

436
00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:05,840
Speaker 1: I don't think politics should be left out of all

437
00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:09,520
Speaker 1: personal finance discussions. But I think that there are that

438
00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:12,800
Speaker 1: there's a time and a place for politics. So the

439
00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:15,520
Speaker 1: article in question was by a woman named Helene Olan

440
00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:20,240
Speaker 1: for the Washington Post, and she had attended finn Con

441
00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:24,919
Speaker 1: and she was disappointed that there wasn't more discussion about politics,

442
00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:29,560
Speaker 1: And the subtext of the article was that she's actually

443
00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:33,120
Speaker 1: disappointed that there's not more discussion of liberal politics. Which

444
00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:36,240
Speaker 1: is fine. I'm pretty liberal myself, I get that. But

445
00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:41,359
Speaker 1: for me, finn Con, in conferences like that, they're not

446
00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:44,160
Speaker 1: a place to talk about politics. There are a place

447
00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:46,920
Speaker 1: to talk about business. There are a place to talk

448
00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:52,720
Speaker 1: about personal finances that applies to everybody, and absolutely there

449
00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:57,720
Speaker 1: there are elements of politics intertwined with personal finance that

450
00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:01,920
Speaker 1: cannot be extricated from personal of finance. But to get

451
00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:06,680
Speaker 1: into partisan politics at a place like Fincon, where you've

452
00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:11,119
Speaker 1: got fifteen no we had people this year, and you

453
00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:15,679
Speaker 1: have people who are probably pretty evenly divided liberal and conservative,

454
00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:21,199
Speaker 1: I think getting into partisan politics at a conference like

455
00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:25,760
Speaker 1: this it's just a recipe for disaster. At this conference,

456
00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:29,240
Speaker 1: we all get along. Fin Con is universally known as

457
00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:31,840
Speaker 1: a place where people support each other, that people have

458
00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:33,560
Speaker 1: been around for a long time, are there to help

459
00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:36,879
Speaker 1: the people who are new. But if you start introducing

460
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:40,560
Speaker 1: things that are divisive, like politics or religion or whatever

461
00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:44,520
Speaker 1: it might be, I think you're very quickly going to

462
00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:49,720
Speaker 1: descend into what we have in modern American society where

463
00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:54,239
Speaker 1: for whatever reason, neither side is willing to listen to

464
00:23:54,880 --> 00:24:00,560
Speaker 1: and engage intelligently with the other side. It's just crazy. Yeah,

465
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:04,080
Speaker 1: I mean, I appreciated your take on that, because I

466
00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:08,119
Speaker 1: think we see politics invading everything, almost everything in our lives.

467
00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:10,439
Speaker 1: There's some sort of political bent to it now, and

468
00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:12,560
Speaker 1: it is just refreshing to be in a space. It's

469
00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:15,199
Speaker 1: refreshing for us to create a podcast where none of

470
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:18,480
Speaker 1: that stuff enters in because so often, even in the

471
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:21,239
Speaker 1: world of personal finance, there's politics inside of it. And

472
00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:23,600
Speaker 1: so it's good to be able to have a political

473
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:26,679
Speaker 1: free space because it feels like there's almost no place

474
00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:28,920
Speaker 1: where you can have where you can be politically free

475
00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:32,119
Speaker 1: in this day and age in our country. Yeah, And

476
00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:34,280
Speaker 1: the thing of it is, I'm not opposed to people

477
00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:37,000
Speaker 1: who want to be political, whether they're conservative or liberal.

478
00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:40,920
Speaker 1: That's all great. But for me, these are very deep,

479
00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:45,000
Speaker 1: nuanced conversations that require the kind of conversation we're having now.

480
00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:49,000
Speaker 1: For example, or face to face conversation. It's not something

481
00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:52,440
Speaker 1: you can do over social media in a hundred forty characters.

482
00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:56,160
Speaker 1: It's not something you can do from the stage or

483
00:24:56,400 --> 00:25:00,480
Speaker 1: a platform at a conference where you're speaking, nobody else

484
00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:04,240
Speaker 1: gets to reply. These are conversations to be had with

485
00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:09,119
Speaker 1: friends and family members or just small groups at a

486
00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:13,119
Speaker 1: conference perhaps where you can have the nuance and you

487
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:17,240
Speaker 1: can listen to somebody who for example, I'm from Portland.

488
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:19,199
Speaker 1: Let's just be clear, I'm from Portland. In Portland, we

489
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:21,959
Speaker 1: have a very specific way we think, most of us

490
00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:26,160
Speaker 1: and if I'm having a conversation with somebody who disagrees

491
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:29,800
Speaker 1: with me, it's going to go much better and we're

492
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:34,560
Speaker 1: gonna have a much richer conversation if we're able to

493
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:38,160
Speaker 1: stop and listen to the other person. If we're able

494
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:42,360
Speaker 1: to it relates to the person as an individual, and

495
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:45,919
Speaker 1: that's very difficult to do through a newspaper column or

496
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:50,360
Speaker 1: through Twitter, or through Facebook or at a conference like Finncon. Yeah,

497
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:52,840
Speaker 1: a conversation is it's just so important there, Like you

498
00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:54,560
Speaker 1: know that you can stand up on stage and I

499
00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:57,160
Speaker 1: think everybody would agree, right, So, like the universal truth

500
00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:00,800
Speaker 1: of compound interest, and like how that works, but someone

501
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:02,600
Speaker 1: where someone to get up there and talk either for

502
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:05,560
Speaker 1: or against universal income. Well, like, yeah, that's that's going

503
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:09,120
Speaker 1: to be something that is going to divide folks. Well,

504
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:11,240
Speaker 1: and Finncon has done a good job. I think there's

505
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:15,160
Speaker 1: actually been a universal basic income a session at fin Con.

506
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:18,960
Speaker 1: But it was it was a factual session. It was

507
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:21,879
Speaker 1: not like pro or con. It was like, this is

508
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:24,959
Speaker 1: what the concept is and this is how it may

509
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:27,679
Speaker 1: or may not work for people. Yeah, Like, there's certainly

510
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:30,679
Speaker 1: bigger economic problems, right that personal finance advice can't solve,

511
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:34,320
Speaker 1: like in and of itself. But like, where in your mind, JD,

512
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:37,480
Speaker 1: is the dividing line between looking at bigger systemic issues

513
00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 1: versus taking matters into our own hands. Oh that's a

514
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:43,960
Speaker 1: great question. So so, first of all, I want to

515
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:48,359
Speaker 1: be very clear there are absolutely systemic issues that hold

516
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:50,400
Speaker 1: people back, and I don't want to pretend that there

517
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:53,280
Speaker 1: are not. There are systemic issues that have been around

518
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:58,480
Speaker 1: for well a hundred and fifty. Race is a very

519
00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:02,040
Speaker 1: real issue in the United States, and it's not a

520
00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:04,800
Speaker 1: solved problem. We sometimes we want to pretend that it is.

521
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:09,719
Speaker 1: It's not all the same. It doesn't matter what the

522
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:13,480
Speaker 1: system is like at this very moment, on an individual level,

523
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:17,399
Speaker 1: whoever you are, if you want to improve your life,

524
00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:20,679
Speaker 1: it is up to you to improve your life. You

525
00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:24,200
Speaker 1: cannot wait for the system to improve. You cannot wait

526
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:28,240
Speaker 1: for the government to implement better policies, you cannot wait

527
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:31,879
Speaker 1: for your church to help you out. You have got

528
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:34,879
Speaker 1: to take charge of your own life. You've got to

529
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:36,720
Speaker 1: say it's up to me, and then you've got to

530
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:39,520
Speaker 1: make the decisions and take action as best you can

531
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:41,679
Speaker 1: within the system that you're involved in. Because I know

532
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:45,119
Speaker 1: that some people are in places where it's much more

533
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:48,280
Speaker 1: difficult to take action, but it doesn't matter. You've got

534
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:51,879
Speaker 1: to take what action you can. And if the particular

535
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:55,320
Speaker 1: area you're in is screwed up and it's especially holding

536
00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:59,720
Speaker 1: you back, move For me, I'm all about individual agency,

537
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:04,480
Speaker 1: regardless of how bad the overall big picture is. Yeah.

538
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:07,960
Speaker 1: You actually just it was yesterday maybe you you posted, Ah,

539
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:12,000
Speaker 1: you just recently posted an article about personal agency on

540
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:13,720
Speaker 1: your blog and I thought it was I thought it

541
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:15,400
Speaker 1: was really good. Willing to that article in the show

542
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:17,760
Speaker 1: notes and j D back in the in the past.

543
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:20,440
Speaker 1: You actually you've written about the stages of financial freedom,

544
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:22,920
Speaker 1: and I think that's so helpful too, as as someone

545
00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:25,560
Speaker 1: is able to see what's in their control and then

546
00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 1: see what what the stages look like. I think oftentimes

547
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:31,560
Speaker 1: we think about our finances as if we're in one spot,

548
00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:34,840
Speaker 1: were either stuck there or we're looking to get somewhere,

549
00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:37,520
Speaker 1: but we don't see the path along the way. And

550
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:40,080
Speaker 1: your article, the way you've been able to talk about

551
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:44,120
Speaker 1: the stages of financial freedom have been so helpful to people. Uh,

552
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:47,600
Speaker 1: and so yeah, can you tell us why thinking about

553
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:51,360
Speaker 1: financial freedom in these kind of stages can can help

554
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 1: people in a way that's like practical and not overwhelming. Yeah,

555
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:59,400
Speaker 1: So nowadays in we're in two thousand nineteen right now,

556
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:01,160
Speaker 1: I don't know if it be two thousand nineteen when

557
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:06,000
Speaker 1: this comes out of two twenty. Don't you worry? All right? Excellent,

558
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:10,120
Speaker 1: So in two thousand nineteen, the financial independence movement is

559
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:14,840
Speaker 1: very popular. In financial independence, in most people's minds, is

560
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:18,120
Speaker 1: the point at which you have enough saved that you

561
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:20,480
Speaker 1: could live on your investments for the rest of your

562
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:23,959
Speaker 1: life without working if you did not want to. For

563
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:26,840
Speaker 1: a lot of people, this seems like an unattainable goal,

564
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 1: to have so much saved that you never have to

565
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:36,440
Speaker 1: work again. Wow, that's amazing. But here's the thing. I

566
00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:41,320
Speaker 1: believe financial freedom. Financial independence exists along a continuum. It's

567
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:45,080
Speaker 1: not just oh, I'm in debt, or oh I have

568
00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:47,880
Speaker 1: enough saved that I can quit my or I can

569
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:50,120
Speaker 1: quit my job and never have to work again. There

570
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:54,200
Speaker 1: are all sorts of steps along the way. And I've

571
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:58,320
Speaker 1: experienced these steps myself and that's how I know they exist.

572
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:02,480
Speaker 1: So let me give you an example. So I say

573
00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:06,440
Speaker 1: that if you are in debt and if your lifestyle

574
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:11,760
Speaker 1: depends on other people for support, meaning your parents or

575
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:16,040
Speaker 1: your spouse, or your boyfriend or girlfriend, or your credit

576
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:18,520
Speaker 1: card company. If you're using other people's money is to

577
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:22,200
Speaker 1: finance your lifestyle, you don't have any financial freedom at all.

578
00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:24,480
Speaker 1: You're essentially a slave. You're a slave to other people

579
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:27,800
Speaker 1: because they're the ones supporting your lifestyle. But as soon

580
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:31,080
Speaker 1: as you are able to meet your financial commitments without

581
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:35,560
Speaker 1: outside help, which means basically that you're earning more than

582
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:39,680
Speaker 1: your spending, or maybe think of it like you're earning

583
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:41,640
Speaker 1: a profit, like a business earner of profit. Once you're

584
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:46,920
Speaker 1: earning a profit, you've reached the first stage of financial freedom,

585
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:50,200
Speaker 1: and it might seem silly. But even just having five

586
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:53,600
Speaker 1: dollars more then you're spending every month, you're bringing in

587
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:56,400
Speaker 1: five dollars more than you're spending. Even that little amount

588
00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 1: provides you with some degree of financial freedom, and that

589
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:02,560
Speaker 1: five dollars more per month will eventually allow you to

590
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:06,520
Speaker 1: pay off your debt. So for me, the next stage

591
00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:09,960
Speaker 1: of financial freedom is actually doing that, paying off your

592
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:13,160
Speaker 1: consumer debt, paying off your credit cards, paying off your

593
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:16,480
Speaker 1: car loans. Once you have no debt and you're continuing

594
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:18,880
Speaker 1: to earn more than you spend, you've reached the next

595
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:21,760
Speaker 1: stage of financial freedom, and it's just amazing. It's just liberating.

596
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:24,360
Speaker 1: And then the third stage of this financial freedom that

597
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:27,840
Speaker 1: I'm talking about, well, some people call it f you money.

598
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:30,760
Speaker 1: And this is a concept that it's been popularized by

599
00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:33,840
Speaker 1: Jim Collins or j L. Collins. N H is how

600
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:36,840
Speaker 1: he's known online. There's a really funny video clip of him,

601
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 1: yes right, talking about it. Yeah, absolutely, he Jim Collins

602
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:44,400
Speaker 1: test is a it's the position of f you I

603
00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:46,160
Speaker 1: don't remember what it's called. You should link to it

604
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 1: in the show notes man. And he's got like the

605
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:52,480
Speaker 1: best voice, by the way, he could beat Yeah, So

606
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:56,040
Speaker 1: f you money is basically, it's just what it sounds like.

607
00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:59,720
Speaker 1: It's like you have enough saved that you're able to say,

608
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:03,800
Speaker 1: you know what, my job sucks, I don't like my boss.

609
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:08,120
Speaker 1: F you, I am out of here. And once you've

610
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:11,400
Speaker 1: got that much saved, that's another level of financial freedom.

611
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:16,040
Speaker 1: And eventually, after you've worked long enough, you've increase your income,

612
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:19,320
Speaker 1: you've decreased your spending, you'll have enough saved that you

613
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:22,040
Speaker 1: could cover your basic needs for the rest of your

614
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:24,680
Speaker 1: life even if you didn't work again, and it just

615
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:27,920
Speaker 1: goes on and on from there. The typical financial independence

616
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:31,040
Speaker 1: that we all talk about is supporting your current lifestyle

617
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:34,360
Speaker 1: based on how much you have saved. I used to

618
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:36,680
Speaker 1: be financially independent that this is something that not a

619
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:38,920
Speaker 1: lot of people will talk about. I used to be

620
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:42,440
Speaker 1: have this financial independence where I had enough saved and

621
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:45,520
Speaker 1: invested to support my current standard of living. But because

622
00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:48,360
Speaker 1: of some poor investment decisions and because of buying back

623
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:52,200
Speaker 1: get rich slowly, I'm back to this more basic level

624
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:54,600
Speaker 1: where I could if I were to cut back to

625
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:57,440
Speaker 1: just the bare bones, live in a trailer park, eat

626
00:32:57,480 --> 00:32:59,120
Speaker 1: on rice and beans, I would never have to work

627
00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 1: in if I didn't want to, but my current standard

628
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:03,720
Speaker 1: of living, I have to learn to earn a little

629
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:05,400
Speaker 1: bit of extra income on the side. You got to

630
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:08,720
Speaker 1: go to those timbers. Well, I see, that's why I

631
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:13,480
Speaker 1: think in two thousand twenty one they're out of here. Yeah, Jdi,

632
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:15,240
Speaker 1: what I love about you know what you mentioned there.

633
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:17,720
Speaker 1: Essentially you've got these different stages, and you know you

634
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:20,240
Speaker 1: mentioned how it's a continuum, like it just breaks it

635
00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:23,480
Speaker 1: down into these kind of smaller, bite sized steps. It's

636
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:26,440
Speaker 1: it's just more digestible when you're first starting out in

637
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:29,280
Speaker 1: your personal finance journey. It's not either like you said,

638
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:32,160
Speaker 1: you're not either in debt, you know, barely living paycheck

639
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:35,160
Speaker 1: to paycheck, or you know you're financially independent. There's this

640
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:39,000
Speaker 1: entire spectrum in between. And I think even I mean

641
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:41,200
Speaker 1: even just realizing that you're no longer living paycheck to

642
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:43,200
Speaker 1: paycheck and instead like you have a little bit of

643
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:45,880
Speaker 1: margin in your life like that, like you're you're working

644
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:49,880
Speaker 1: towards financial independence. That margin is so important. It's just

645
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:53,160
Speaker 1: it's amazing. Yeah, the five bucks is a lot more.

646
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:56,280
Speaker 1: I mean, that's such a meaningful step. If you hit

647
00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:59,760
Speaker 1: that when when before you were negative hundred, you know

648
00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:01,560
Speaker 1: that positive five. That's a that's a big step and

649
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 1: it's something that should be celebrated. And I love Yeah,

650
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:06,800
Speaker 1: I love the continuum thought. There's a Charles Dickens quote.

651
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:08,600
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna be able to get it exactly right

652
00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:10,440
Speaker 1: off the top of my head, but it'll be easy

653
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:16,080
Speaker 1: to google where he says basically, if you're earning five

654
00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:18,960
Speaker 1: pounds a year but you're spending six pounds or five

655
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:20,759
Speaker 1: pounds a month, and you're any six pounds a month,

656
00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:23,400
Speaker 1: the result is misery, even though it's just minds one

657
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:26,319
Speaker 1: pound per month. But if you're earning six pounds a

658
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:29,320
Speaker 1: month and you're spending five pounds a month, the result

659
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:32,560
Speaker 1: is happiness because you're one pound a month in the clear.

660
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:35,840
Speaker 1: I'm sure you can find the exact quote. Yeah, it

661
00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:40,799
Speaker 1: doesn't take much, you know. So, j D. You've also

662
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:44,319
Speaker 1: talked a good bit about mental health on your site. Yeah, yeah,

663
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:46,879
Speaker 1: and I'm grateful that we have an opportunity to talk

664
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:49,120
Speaker 1: with you about that, and we'll get to that after

665
00:34:49,160 --> 00:35:00,399
Speaker 1: the break. Alright, we're back from the break. We're talking

666
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:03,240
Speaker 1: with j D Roth, who writes at get rich slowly

667
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:06,400
Speaker 1: dot org and j D. I so appreciate the honesty

668
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:09,560
Speaker 1: that you bring to get rich slowly. You've been really

669
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:12,240
Speaker 1: forthcoming and talking about your mental health on the site too,

670
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:16,520
Speaker 1: So can you kind of tell us how managing anxiety

671
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:18,799
Speaker 1: and depression in your life, because it's something that you've

672
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:21,080
Speaker 1: talked about freely and you've dealt with for a long time. Well,

673
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:24,319
Speaker 1: how has dealing with that and kind of battling with

674
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:27,080
Speaker 1: that really changed your life? And and then well we'll

675
00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:28,800
Speaker 1: talk about how it affects money to in a second.

676
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:32,440
Speaker 1: That's an interesting question. I'm not sure how it's changed

677
00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:35,520
Speaker 1: my life because for me, it's it's been something that

678
00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:37,600
Speaker 1: has always been a part of my life. I was

679
00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:40,640
Speaker 1: recently talking with a pair of twins. They were joking,

680
00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:43,560
Speaker 1: They're like, oh, we always get asked what's it like

681
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:47,279
Speaker 1: to be twins? And they're like, we don't know what's

682
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 1: it like to not be We don't know anything else.

683
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:53,480
Speaker 1: And so for me, I've always had the depression. I

684
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:56,040
Speaker 1: haven't always had the anxiety, but I've always had the depression.

685
00:35:56,719 --> 00:35:59,520
Speaker 1: And so I don't know life without I guess I do,

686
00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:02,360
Speaker 1: because is like right now, I'm going through a period

687
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:05,560
Speaker 1: of time where I'm not experiencing the depression. I know

688
00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:08,800
Speaker 1: that for me, attempts to come on March, April, May, June.

689
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:12,680
Speaker 1: Those four months are just miserable. So I guess I'm

690
00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:14,480
Speaker 1: kind of lying to you. I'm fibbing to you, and

691
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:16,680
Speaker 1: I don't when I say I don't know what it's like,

692
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:19,640
Speaker 1: but it is something that's just always a part of

693
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:23,239
Speaker 1: my life. And a lot of times people think depression

694
00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:26,160
Speaker 1: is like this dark, dark mood, this dark dark place,

695
00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:28,879
Speaker 1: and there's elements of that that it's more like a

696
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:32,600
Speaker 1: general numbness. It's just this you don't care about anything,

697
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:36,759
Speaker 1: And that's what sucks is because for example, I love

698
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:39,719
Speaker 1: the Portland's Timbers, or I love Taylor Swift, or I

699
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:43,200
Speaker 1: love whiskey and beer, but when I'm depressed, I don't

700
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:46,080
Speaker 1: love any of those things. I just don't care. So

701
00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:48,759
Speaker 1: for me, one of the issues I've had, I think

702
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:52,200
Speaker 1: throughout my life is when I'm going through the depressed stages,

703
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:55,319
Speaker 1: I have a tendency to want to spend money to

704
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:59,440
Speaker 1: try to like feel something, to feel some pleasure. So

705
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:03,680
Speaker 1: in the spring, when I'm going through this, I'll be like,

706
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:06,440
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, what can I do. Well, Let's let

707
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:09,719
Speaker 1: me put it this way, my spending on Amazon. If

708
00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:12,200
Speaker 1: you compare my spending on Amazon in the first half

709
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:15,200
Speaker 1: of the year versus the second half, it's like, I'm

710
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:17,279
Speaker 1: not joking, it's like ten times more in the first

711
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:18,920
Speaker 1: half of the year in the second half of the

712
00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:21,600
Speaker 1: year because I'm trying to spend. I don't know, because

713
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:23,840
Speaker 1: I think that buying is going to make me feel better.

714
00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:26,880
Speaker 1: It doesn't, but I think it will. Man. Yeah, I

715
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:29,080
Speaker 1: appreciate you sharing that j d um. Yeah. And I

716
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:31,000
Speaker 1: know right that you're not alone. I think a lot

717
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:33,600
Speaker 1: of people are anxious in particular when it comes to

718
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:36,120
Speaker 1: like their finances as well, right, and so whether it

719
00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:38,920
Speaker 1: be not making enough money, or you know, if they

720
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:42,080
Speaker 1: know maybe that they're spending is out of control, or

721
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:45,200
Speaker 1: maybe they have got fears associated with investing in the market.

722
00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:49,680
Speaker 1: Do you have any like recommendations for folks, anything specific

723
00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:53,040
Speaker 1: for folks to kind of combat that anxiety when it

724
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:56,200
Speaker 1: comes to investing or just kind of the general money anxiety.

725
00:37:56,440 --> 00:37:59,279
Speaker 1: Sometimes it comes out in the form of like, I'm

726
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:01,319
Speaker 1: so anxious, I don't know that I can put money

727
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:03,920
Speaker 1: in the market. I know that, like you know, financial

728
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:06,239
Speaker 1: wisdom says that it's the right move to make but

729
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:10,680
Speaker 1: I'm too anxious about the possibility of losing my money,

730
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:12,680
Speaker 1: or you know, for other people. I mean, it's all

731
00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:14,920
Speaker 1: these ways that it can play out, these money anxieties.

732
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:18,000
Speaker 1: So there are a couple of things to think about here.

733
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:22,840
Speaker 1: So first of all, I think it's very important to

734
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:28,000
Speaker 1: never make big financial decisions when you're under this way

735
00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:32,520
Speaker 1: of strong emotions and if you're feeling anxious and I

736
00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:35,680
Speaker 1: do struggle with the anxiety too. If you have the

737
00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:39,120
Speaker 1: anxiety and it's active, you should not be making financial decisions.

738
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:41,960
Speaker 1: Put them off. It's okay to sit out on the

739
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:45,520
Speaker 1: sidelines and say, you know what, I recognize that I'm

740
00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:47,839
Speaker 1: not in a good place right now. I'm not going

741
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:50,319
Speaker 1: to invest. I'm not going to buy a house. I'm

742
00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:52,880
Speaker 1: not going to buy a car. If you're feeling anxious

743
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:57,840
Speaker 1: about it, don't do it. It's okay. But at the

744
00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:03,200
Speaker 1: same time, it's very important to educate yourself to seek

745
00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:08,520
Speaker 1: out reliable sources of information to help alleviate some of

746
00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:14,760
Speaker 1: this financial anxiety. So using the example of investing, investing

747
00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:19,000
Speaker 1: can seem very intimidating. And there's what I call the

748
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:23,319
Speaker 1: financial industrial complex that has been built up to try

749
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:26,239
Speaker 1: to convince you that, oh, you need help, you can

750
00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:30,520
Speaker 1: invest on your own, even though you can, there's all

751
00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:34,120
Speaker 1: this stuff that helps create this anxiety or exacerbate the anxiety.

752
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:40,120
Speaker 1: And I think if you educate yourself, read books like J. L.

753
00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:44,279
Speaker 1: Collins book The Simple Path to Wealth, or read Your

754
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:48,680
Speaker 1: Money or Your Life, or read Dave Ramsey's The Total

755
00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:52,320
Speaker 1: Money Makeover, these books will help you see other people

756
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:55,279
Speaker 1: who have like succeeded with money, succeeded with getting me

757
00:39:55,320 --> 00:40:00,359
Speaker 1: out of debt, succeeded with investing, and I don't know

758
00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:04,640
Speaker 1: for me with my own anxiety, the reading and like

759
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:07,480
Speaker 1: hearing this stuff over and over and over again, it's

760
00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:11,279
Speaker 1: very helpful. Does that make sense? Yeah, for sure, I think, yeah,

761
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:14,239
Speaker 1: the reinforcement, and I mean that's part of the reason

762
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:16,040
Speaker 1: that we we started this podcast. Matt and I were

763
00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:18,360
Speaker 1: into talking about money, but it's also this is this

764
00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:20,319
Speaker 1: beautiful thing where if we get together twice a week

765
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:22,920
Speaker 1: to talk about it and have a beer, it's it

766
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:27,160
Speaker 1: builds us up to to do better and to continue

767
00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:30,000
Speaker 1: going forward, because it's easy to get discouraged and it's

768
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:32,360
Speaker 1: easy to kind of fall off the wagon and say,

769
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:34,960
Speaker 1: you know what, I'm I'm not going to do that anymore,

770
00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:37,799
Speaker 1: and so we want this podcast space to be for

771
00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:40,120
Speaker 1: listeners who wanted to be and encourage me. We wanted

772
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:41,560
Speaker 1: to be a place where people are like, you know what,

773
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:43,920
Speaker 1: it's fun, it's lighthearted, it's a great place where I

774
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:46,000
Speaker 1: can turn for advice, and they want to keep coming back.

775
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:48,120
Speaker 1: And in my mind, that's what your blog is, and

776
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:50,640
Speaker 1: that's what we hope this podcast is for people that

777
00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:52,839
Speaker 1: that it's a place where they can keep coming back

778
00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:55,600
Speaker 1: and then continue to get reinforced on those good habits,

779
00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:59,239
Speaker 1: because I completely agree it's it's so easy to to, uh,

780
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:01,880
Speaker 1: to kind of fall completely off the wagon and forget

781
00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:05,720
Speaker 1: all about it, you know, and especially after a mistake, right, yeah, exactly.

782
00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:12,480
Speaker 1: Oh yes, the mistakes can be so disheartening. And you

783
00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:15,960
Speaker 1: hear a lot of times about the similar similarities between

784
00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:19,359
Speaker 1: personal finance and fitness, and a lot of people want

785
00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:22,160
Speaker 1: to pooh pooh that and say, oh, that's overblown. It's

786
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:26,080
Speaker 1: not really overblown. As somebody who struggles with his physical

787
00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:29,480
Speaker 1: fitness and who has struggled with finances in the past,

788
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:35,120
Speaker 1: I firmly believe there's a great deal of similarity between

789
00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:39,440
Speaker 1: finance and fitness, and for me if if when I'm

790
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:41,960
Speaker 1: trying to lose weight, if I mess up one day,

791
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:43,640
Speaker 1: if I go out and I have a burger and

792
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:47,759
Speaker 1: fries and a couple of beers, I'm like, oh, man, well,

793
00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:51,439
Speaker 1: you can't just stop worrying about your fitness. That doesn't

794
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:54,239
Speaker 1: mean you're done with it. And the same is true

795
00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:58,879
Speaker 1: with your personal finances. If you go out and I don't,

796
00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:00,360
Speaker 1: I don't know what a supliter would be, you go

797
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:04,799
Speaker 1: buy a Nintendo switch or whatever. But that doesn't mean

798
00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:06,960
Speaker 1: you're like you should just give up and say, oh

799
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:09,359
Speaker 1: I screwed up this one time. I'm done. I'll never

800
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:11,880
Speaker 1: succeed with money. That That's not how it works. You

801
00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:14,960
Speaker 1: made one mistake, Okay, you made that mistake. Time to

802
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:19,280
Speaker 1: move on, continue working toward being better with your money.

803
00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:24,000
Speaker 1: And it's just important not to let the momentary lapses

804
00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:26,680
Speaker 1: get you down. Yeah, JD. What this reminds me of

805
00:42:26,719 --> 00:42:28,600
Speaker 1: two is kind of going back to earlier when we

806
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:32,000
Speaker 1: were talking about politics and personal finance and and how

807
00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:34,759
Speaker 1: we're kind of drawn to the individual nature of it.

808
00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:38,839
Speaker 1: I think that's a huge reason why we enjoy why

809
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:42,000
Speaker 1: we are drawing to personal finances, because it's something that

810
00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:43,640
Speaker 1: kind of comes down to us. Like in the end,

811
00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:46,040
Speaker 1: it does come down to what are we gonna do next?

812
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:47,680
Speaker 1: Like what like, yeah, you know, you messed up, but

813
00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:49,279
Speaker 1: what's the next step that you are going to take?

814
00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:51,480
Speaker 1: Because it comes down to you and what you're gonna do.

815
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:55,000
Speaker 1: And I think that's why personal finances also like really

816
00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:57,640
Speaker 1: gratifying and rewarding, you know, from from the standpoint of

817
00:42:57,880 --> 00:42:59,480
Speaker 1: you know, a writer for you know, for you and

818
00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:02,560
Speaker 1: you know, we've got podcast here that's incredibly gratifying for

819
00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:04,719
Speaker 1: us to hear from our listeners and I know you

820
00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:08,279
Speaker 1: hear from countless readers of your blog has kept up

821
00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:11,200
Speaker 1: with you over the years to see how they have,

822
00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:14,560
Speaker 1: you know, have their lives completely changed and impacted by

823
00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:17,880
Speaker 1: your writing. And you know, we're starting to realize that

824
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:20,120
Speaker 1: a little bit as well with a podcast. And that's

825
00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:23,240
Speaker 1: just one of the things that we love about personal finance. Yeah,

826
00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:25,919
Speaker 1: and you know, Matt and Joel. One thing I would say,

827
00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:28,280
Speaker 1: I think one of the reasons that Get Rich Slowly

828
00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:31,440
Speaker 1: has been so successful over the years is because it

829
00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:36,200
Speaker 1: focuses on story instead of focusing on facts. The fact

830
00:43:36,239 --> 00:43:39,160
Speaker 1: the facts are important, the math is important. You can't

831
00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:42,319
Speaker 1: be successful with money unless you understand the math and

832
00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:47,879
Speaker 1: the basic financial literacy. But the stories, I think are

833
00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:51,799
Speaker 1: what resonate with people, the successes and the failures, and

834
00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:55,480
Speaker 1: so what you're doing by helping me tell my story

835
00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:58,880
Speaker 1: helping other people tell their stories. I think this is

836
00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:03,160
Speaker 1: so important and it's something that's missed in the mainstream

837
00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:10,400
Speaker 1: media is these stories really can help a wide group

838
00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:14,120
Speaker 1: of people see what is it really like to manage

839
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:19,400
Speaker 1: money successfully and sometimes unsuccessfully, so that you improve your

840
00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:23,000
Speaker 1: financial situation gradually over time. Yeah, I mean, anybody can

841
00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:26,360
Speaker 1: go to the I R S website and see the

842
00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:28,080
Speaker 1: amount of money you can contribute to an h s

843
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:31,279
Speaker 1: A and see its tax advantages. But who does that? Like,

844
00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:33,040
Speaker 1: who goes to the I R S website and nerds

845
00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:35,000
Speaker 1: out on that? What they need is a J. D.

846
00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:38,520
Speaker 1: Roth Or or Matt and Joel to help them see

847
00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:42,319
Speaker 1: how glorious it can be through personal human interaction. Right,

848
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:45,839
Speaker 1: And so I agree exactly there's countless resources out there,

849
00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:48,399
Speaker 1: but how can you communicate it in a way that's

850
00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:51,479
Speaker 1: effective and that actually helps people to take action, Because

851
00:44:51,560 --> 00:44:54,279
Speaker 1: ultimately it's the action that's going to to lead to

852
00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:56,840
Speaker 1: people changing their lives for the better, especially when it

853
00:44:56,840 --> 00:45:00,960
Speaker 1: comes to absolute action is all that matters. I've been

854
00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:04,640
Speaker 1: such a strong believer in action, not words. I mean,

855
00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:07,799
Speaker 1: you can talk all you want, but if you don't

856
00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:10,239
Speaker 1: take action, what does it matter. It doesn't matter what

857
00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:12,959
Speaker 1: you believe if you're not putting those words into action. Yeah,

858
00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:15,600
Speaker 1: I agree, all right, j D. Last question for you.

859
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:17,919
Speaker 1: We mentioned at the beginning of the show that you

860
00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:20,919
Speaker 1: are a big Taylor Swift fan. He's a Swift, He's

861
00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:26,160
Speaker 1: a Swifty and I am a huge Ryan Adams fan until,

862
00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:28,239
Speaker 1: by the way, all that stuff came out about him

863
00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:30,200
Speaker 1: and his personal life that made me really sad. But

864
00:45:30,239 --> 00:45:32,279
Speaker 1: I've been a big Ryan Adams fan for like my

865
00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:34,759
Speaker 1: whole life, and so as a big Taylor Swift fan,

866
00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:36,840
Speaker 1: I have to know. Did you like the Ryan Adams

867
00:45:37,160 --> 00:45:41,160
Speaker 1: cover of her album? Does this even exist? Oh? My god?

868
00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:48,239
Speaker 1: Look two fifteen, I'm googling everybody. You don't know this? No, Molly, Well,

869
00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:51,840
Speaker 1: I guess I know what I'm doing tonight. All right,

870
00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:55,040
Speaker 1: get back to Yeah, it's really good. You have to

871
00:45:55,080 --> 00:45:58,799
Speaker 1: check it out. Wow, I even like I like Ryan

872
00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:02,279
Speaker 1: Adams too. Wow. Okay, I'm gonna check this out. It

873
00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:06,040
Speaker 1: was released just three months after Taylor Swift released her version,

874
00:46:07,080 --> 00:46:12,560
Speaker 1: so it's like, wow, could it's one of the greatest

875
00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:17,200
Speaker 1: oubums of all time. Well, we know you're a true

876
00:46:17,239 --> 00:46:21,680
Speaker 1: swifty that has been made apparent, so we appreciate that, man,

877
00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:23,680
Speaker 1: and so we really appreciate your time. This has been

878
00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:26,359
Speaker 1: such an excellent conversation. Thank you so much for joining us.

879
00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:28,640
Speaker 1: Thank you. I really appreciate it. It's been great. Matt

880
00:46:28,640 --> 00:46:31,480
Speaker 1: and Jel Yeah, thanks j D. Alright, Matt, I really

881
00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:34,080
Speaker 1: really enjoyed that conversation with j D. He's been an

882
00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:36,839
Speaker 1: accidental personal finance expert for a ton of years now

883
00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:40,440
Speaker 1: but doling out really really good financial advice and so, yeah,

884
00:46:40,520 --> 00:46:42,399
Speaker 1: that was a great conversation. I want to know what

885
00:46:42,440 --> 00:46:45,279
Speaker 1: was your big takeaway from this combo? Yeah, Man, For me,

886
00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:48,200
Speaker 1: I was glad that we were able to talk about depression.

887
00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:50,279
Speaker 1: This is something that JD deals with, and so my

888
00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:53,520
Speaker 1: takeaway essentially is that when you're dealing with depression, right,

889
00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:56,440
Speaker 1: or if you have some anxiety, uh, it's just really

890
00:46:56,680 --> 00:47:00,120
Speaker 1: good to remind yourself not only of the true use

891
00:47:00,200 --> 00:47:03,120
Speaker 1: of personal finance, but of the different stories that are

892
00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:06,640
Speaker 1: out there of people who have overcome the folks who

893
00:47:06,640 --> 00:47:08,600
Speaker 1: are winning that the folks who are doing smart things

894
00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:10,480
Speaker 1: with their money. I just see that as such a

895
00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:13,279
Speaker 1: great way to to be reminded and to be encouraged

896
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:15,919
Speaker 1: when you don't have the brightest outlook when it comes

897
00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:18,480
Speaker 1: to not just your money, but even your life. And

898
00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:21,040
Speaker 1: JD has even mentioned how he has turned to consumption

899
00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:24,120
Speaker 1: in the past, right to Gamazon specifically, yeah, exactly to

900
00:47:24,120 --> 00:47:26,480
Speaker 1: to get him through those rough patches, and how that

901
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:29,560
Speaker 1: doesn't work. But in a sense, like you are consuming

902
00:47:29,600 --> 00:47:31,680
Speaker 1: when you listen to these stories or you read these

903
00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:34,759
Speaker 1: books where you know that there are financial truths in

904
00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:37,719
Speaker 1: those books, it's important to be reminded of those things

905
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:40,160
Speaker 1: when you're going through those rough times. Yeah. I love

906
00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:42,240
Speaker 1: that he opened up about that. I thought in particular

907
00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:45,120
Speaker 1: when he said don't make financial decisions while you're dealing

908
00:47:45,120 --> 00:47:48,160
Speaker 1: with financial anxiety, that was so helpful because if you

909
00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:50,719
Speaker 1: can just put that decision off while you're kind of

910
00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:52,840
Speaker 1: going through some of that turmoil, it can help you

911
00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:55,680
Speaker 1: avoid making a really bad decision, give some time for

912
00:47:55,719 --> 00:47:58,000
Speaker 1: your mind to clear. That's huge, And I think my

913
00:47:58,040 --> 00:48:01,000
Speaker 1: big takeaway from this episode besides that at was was

914
00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:04,040
Speaker 1: really to beware of free stuff when someone's trying to

915
00:48:04,040 --> 00:48:06,480
Speaker 1: give you something free, whether it's a pizza or a frisbee,

916
00:48:06,680 --> 00:48:09,920
Speaker 1: oftentimes there are things attached to that, and so you

917
00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:11,640
Speaker 1: just need to be careful while you're out there, especially

918
00:48:11,640 --> 00:48:14,200
Speaker 1: when you're dealing with financial products. If someone's offering you

919
00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:16,200
Speaker 1: something for free, you want to make sure to to

920
00:48:16,239 --> 00:48:18,600
Speaker 1: read the type, read the reviews, see what's kind of

921
00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:20,799
Speaker 1: going on underneath the hood, before you sign on the

922
00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:22,919
Speaker 1: dotted line and take that credit card or whatever, because

923
00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:24,719
Speaker 1: there are probably better offers out there. And so, yeah,

924
00:48:24,719 --> 00:48:26,640
Speaker 1: you just want to be informed before you make a

925
00:48:26,640 --> 00:48:29,319
Speaker 1: decision based on getting some for free. Are you saying

926
00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:31,080
Speaker 1: that to kind of remind yourself when you were kind

927
00:48:31,080 --> 00:48:33,480
Speaker 1: of going through the different conferences or the different festivals

928
00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:34,759
Speaker 1: and they've got all the booths set up. I know

929
00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:36,759
Speaker 1: you love all those all those free bees. I like

930
00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:38,759
Speaker 1: some freevies. I like some shot keys from time to time.

931
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:40,400
Speaker 1: But if I got to sign my name somewhere in

932
00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:42,360
Speaker 1: order to get it, I want to make sure that

933
00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:46,120
Speaker 1: I'm not making an ill informed, you know, impulsive decision. Gotcha,

934
00:48:46,239 --> 00:48:47,960
Speaker 1: there you go, man. All right, well, let's get back

935
00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:50,600
Speaker 1: to a beer. For this episode, we drank gold, which

936
00:48:50,640 --> 00:48:54,040
Speaker 1: is a beer. By st Archer Brewing Company. We're thankful

937
00:48:54,080 --> 00:48:56,680
Speaker 1: for the folks out there for sending this one our away. Joel,

938
00:48:56,719 --> 00:48:58,399
Speaker 1: what were your thoughts on this beer. Yeah, we don't

939
00:48:58,440 --> 00:49:00,760
Speaker 1: drink many loggers on the show, so we are super

940
00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:02,920
Speaker 1: stoked to get to feature one today. This is a

941
00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:05,200
Speaker 1: light logger. Is a light logger, which for all the

942
00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:08,319
Speaker 1: folks that are drinking kind of the macro lightloggers, this

943
00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:11,640
Speaker 1: is just a nice craft alternative to those. And it's

944
00:49:11,719 --> 00:49:14,360
Speaker 1: not something I typically have in my fridge because I

945
00:49:14,360 --> 00:49:17,160
Speaker 1: don't care about calories. I care way more about taste personally,

946
00:49:17,239 --> 00:49:19,160
Speaker 1: but I know other people they factor in calories to

947
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:22,160
Speaker 1: their drinking decisions. But yeah, I thought this was refreshing.

948
00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:25,239
Speaker 1: It was it was light. It was just, honestly like

949
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:27,879
Speaker 1: a perfect lawn mower beer, Like after I'm done mowing

950
00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:29,680
Speaker 1: the lawn and I want something that I can just

951
00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:32,359
Speaker 1: take down pretty quickly, but that tastes good, that still

952
00:49:32,360 --> 00:49:34,239
Speaker 1: has some flavor going on even though it's kind of

953
00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:36,279
Speaker 1: lightened body. This is the kind of beer I would

954
00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:38,040
Speaker 1: turn to. So, yeah, you would find me drinking this

955
00:49:38,120 --> 00:49:40,920
Speaker 1: beer like July August. Typically I would say, yeah, it's

956
00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:43,080
Speaker 1: not bad to have this time of year though. Yeah,

957
00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:45,359
Speaker 1: for me, it was a really bright, kind of bright

958
00:49:45,440 --> 00:49:47,279
Speaker 1: and airy beer. It also had sort of like a

959
00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:49,399
Speaker 1: light breadiness to it. I think a lot of times

960
00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:51,680
Speaker 1: when you are drinking a lighter beer like this, like

961
00:49:51,680 --> 00:49:54,279
Speaker 1: a light logger, you tend to taste you know, more

962
00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:56,520
Speaker 1: of like some of the weedier notes like that versus

963
00:49:56,719 --> 00:49:58,560
Speaker 1: you know, some of the hoppier notes. Because they don't

964
00:49:58,560 --> 00:50:01,000
Speaker 1: typically load these kind of beers up with hot flavor,

965
00:50:01,719 --> 00:50:03,400
Speaker 1: so it's nice from time to time to switch it

966
00:50:03,480 --> 00:50:05,400
Speaker 1: up and have a different kind of beer with a

967
00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:08,319
Speaker 1: different flavor profile like this. I will mention too, it's

968
00:50:08,320 --> 00:50:10,280
Speaker 1: it's kind of in one of those tall, skinny cans,

969
00:50:10,680 --> 00:50:12,920
Speaker 1: and so it's reminiscent of some other, like you said,

970
00:50:13,239 --> 00:50:16,239
Speaker 1: macro breweries who also pay attention to the amount of

971
00:50:16,280 --> 00:50:20,480
Speaker 1: calories and carbs and their specific beer. Yeah, I feel

972
00:50:20,520 --> 00:50:22,760
Speaker 1: like I'm getting skinny or just by looking at it, honestly.

973
00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:25,720
Speaker 1: So alright, well, Matt, Well that's gonna do it for

974
00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:28,479
Speaker 1: the show today. And if folks want the show notes

975
00:50:28,520 --> 00:50:30,360
Speaker 1: for this episode, well you can find those on our

976
00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:33,080
Speaker 1: website how to money dot com. We'll have specific links

977
00:50:33,320 --> 00:50:36,440
Speaker 1: to to some of those. Get Rich Slowly resources and

978
00:50:36,520 --> 00:50:38,480
Speaker 1: some of those articles that we talked about on the

979
00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:41,360
Speaker 1: show today. Yeah, Juel, this right, And if you enjoyed

980
00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:43,440
Speaker 1: this episode, we would love for you to head over

981
00:50:43,480 --> 00:50:46,200
Speaker 1: to Apple Podcasts and leave a review over there if

982
00:50:46,239 --> 00:50:49,080
Speaker 1: you have not already, and regardless where you're listening, we

983
00:50:49,080 --> 00:50:52,240
Speaker 1: would love for you to hit subscribe if you haven't already.

984
00:50:52,280 --> 00:50:54,839
Speaker 1: That way you never miss a new episode. All right, now,

985
00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:57,319
Speaker 1: let's all go listen to that Ryan Adams cover of

986
00:50:57,360 --> 00:51:01,200
Speaker 1: Taylor Swift and just feel good about like it's pretty good, alright, Matt,

987
00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:18,239
Speaker 1: until next time. Best friends out, Friends out, It's all

988
00:51:18,320 --> 00:51:20,279
Speaker 1: They gotta make you laugh me more.