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Speaker 1: Hey bessies, Hello Sunshine.

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Speaker 2: Today on the bright Side, we're changing the way we

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Speaker 2: talk about being a stay at home mom. Founder and

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Speaker 2: CEO of Mother Untitled, Neha Rouche is back on the

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Speaker 2: bright side and her new book, The Power Pause is

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Speaker 2: out now. She's flipping the script on parenthood and pausing

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Speaker 2: your career. She's here to give us fresh tools, empowering language,

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Speaker 2: and a whole new way to think about this transformative

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Speaker 2: phase of life. It's Tuesday, January twenty eighth. I'm Danielle Robe.

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Speaker 3: And I'm Simone Boyce, and this is the bright Side

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Speaker 3: from Hello Sunshine, Simone.

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Speaker 2: I am truly grateful to be in conversation with Neha

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Speaker 2: Rush again. She was your friend that you brought on

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Speaker 2: the show, and I just fell in love with her

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Speaker 2: when she joined us last time. I felt like we

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Speaker 2: just scratched the surface about how challenging it can be

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Speaker 2: for moms to determine whether or not to stay at

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Speaker 2: home to raise their children or invest in childcare. I mean,

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Speaker 2: we talked about how some women fear that starting a

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Speaker 2: family could be a career ender even and she really

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Speaker 2: shed light on some of the false beliefs of stay

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Speaker 2: at home parenthood.

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Speaker 1: It was such an enlightening conversation.

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Speaker 3: It always is an enlightening conversation when Neha Rush is involved,

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Speaker 3: and I feel like Danielle, we have to kind of

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Speaker 3: start by giving some context as to why you're not

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Speaker 3: going to hear my voice in this interview. This is

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Speaker 3: an interview I've been looking forward to for forever, because,

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Speaker 3: as you mentioned, she's a friend of mine and I

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Speaker 3: have been cheering her on behind the scenes as she's

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Speaker 3: been working on this book. I know that she has

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Speaker 3: poured her heart and soul into The Power Pause, and

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Speaker 3: I know that she really believes that can help an

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Speaker 3: entire generation of women break through from some of these

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Speaker 3: false beliefs that I think we've inherited from our own mothers. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 3: there was a fire near my house. I'm sure you

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Speaker 3: guys are aware of bright Side besties of what's been

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Speaker 3: going on in LA with all these fires, and just

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Speaker 3: had to make the decision to keep my family safe

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Speaker 3: and get everybody out of the house. So unfortunately I

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Speaker 3: missed this interview, but I had spent so much time

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Speaker 3: highlighting her book, and there's so many things I want

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Speaker 3: to talk about and ask about. But I know that

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Speaker 3: I know that you guys had an electrifying conversation Danielle,

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Speaker 3: and I cannot wait to hear it.

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Speaker 2: We also got to ask some of your questions, so

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Speaker 2: I don't want you to be you do, said yeah,

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Speaker 2: and we credited you would they everyone will know that

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Speaker 2: they're yours.

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Speaker 1: I don't care about that.

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Speaker 3: I just the reason why I did that is because

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Speaker 3: this book is so interactive and it truly is comprehensive.

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Speaker 3: Like she's got exercises in there to help you, you know,

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Speaker 3: disentangle your identity from your work. She's got sample schedules

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Speaker 3: from mothers who are navigating some similar challenges that you

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Speaker 3: might be walking through. So yeah, I just want to

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Speaker 3: honor how incredibly thorough this this book is, and to

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Speaker 3: be honest, Danielle, like, this is the kind of book

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Speaker 3: that I wish was available not just when I decided

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Speaker 3: to pause my own.

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Speaker 1: Career, but I wish it was available.

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Speaker 3: As I was thinking about building a family, because I

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Speaker 3: get so many young women reaching out to me asking

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Speaker 3: me about how to navigate, you know, breaks in your career,

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Speaker 3: especially like in broadcast journalism. And now not only can

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Speaker 3: I point to my experience and say, hey, look what's possible,

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Speaker 3: look how robust your career can be on the other

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Speaker 3: side of motherhood. But also I have this incredible guide

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Speaker 3: Naha's book to point them to.

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Speaker 1: Now it's interesting you say that.

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Speaker 2: As I was talking to her, I was thinking, I'm

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Speaker 2: so glad that I'm learning about this before parenthood. I

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Speaker 2: really think that this is a book that applies to

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Speaker 2: almost any phase of life that you're in. If you're

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Speaker 2: thinking about becoming a mom, it's interesting. If you are

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Speaker 2: a mom, it's fascinating, And if you're not wanting to

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Speaker 2: be a mom, it's also interesting to learn about the

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Speaker 2: language that we're using as a culture around stay at

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Speaker 2: home parenthood.

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Speaker 3: Another thing that really stood out to me in Naha's book.

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Speaker 3: She talks about the transition itself, like what it's like

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Speaker 3: to put your career on pause and what it's like

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Speaker 3: to navigate the financial aspect of that. But she also

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Speaker 3: talks about the return, and she's encouraging parents to really

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Speaker 3: prepare yourselves for what it's like when you do return

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Speaker 3: to work. So that's a fresh perspective that I feel

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Speaker 3: like is not talked about enough in this conversation.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, we touch on that and so much more.

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Speaker 2: Here's our conversation with neh Uche.

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Speaker 1: Okay, nay, how welcome back to the bright side.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, it's so nice to see your face. I'm

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Speaker 2: so happy to see you. Congratulations on Power Pause. This

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Speaker 2: is not just a beautiful cover, but truly a beautiful book.

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Speaker 2: So this book is already resonating with parents around the

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Speaker 2: country very deeply. I want to start with the language.

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Speaker 2: What is a power pause? The power pause is the

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Speaker 2: antidote to this idea that if you part with your

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Speaker 2: career for a chapter, that you're somehow a shut in

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Speaker 2: trope that has long since been associated with a stay

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Speaker 2: at home mother. And instead it's this reclaiming of language

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Speaker 2: that speaks to shifting priorities away from our paid work

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Speaker 2: for a chapter for family life, for mental health, for

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Speaker 2: elder care, for a variety of different priorities, and in

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Speaker 2: making room for that, allowing ourselves to discover new interests,

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Speaker 2: new skills, and ultimately be able to add that all

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Speaker 2: back to such a robust career portfolio. One thing I've

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Speaker 2: heard you say a lot about is that motherhood gets

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Speaker 2: bad pr Why is it important to you to provide

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Speaker 2: a different and possibly even more accurate view we've.

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Speaker 4: Done such incredible work, only in the recent years of

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Speaker 4: finally starting to think about, well, is there value to

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Speaker 4: unpaid labor, dignifying that work, and really starting to elevate

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Speaker 4: it from the mems of divers and laundry, and really

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Speaker 4: think about the onspiring work that happens behind the scenes,

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Speaker 4: right you know, the women advocating for their child's care

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Speaker 4: to insurance companies, or navigating really complicated education systems to

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Speaker 4: get their kids the best possible structures and systems to

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Speaker 4: help them grow and learn. That's the work behind the scenes.

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Speaker 4: And when we shine a light on that, then we

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Speaker 4: do two things. We better understand why people might want

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Speaker 4: more room and time with their kids or for their kids,

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Speaker 4: and we also start to understand that, you know, women's

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Speaker 4: brains don't go and die if they take a break

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Speaker 4: from the paid workforce. Actually, it can expand in all

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Speaker 4: sorts of new directions. You're taking this on in a

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Speaker 4: very granular sense. In each chapter you outline a false

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Speaker 4: belief and then a new narrative to correct it. What

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Speaker 4: is the first false belief that you had to unlearn

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Speaker 4: in your own power?

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Speaker 1: Pause?

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Speaker 4: When I had my first child and I decided I

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Speaker 4: wanted to downshift my career. I switched to part time

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Speaker 4: so that I could be two days at the workplace

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Speaker 4: and then the rest of the week at home. In

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Speaker 4: twenty sixteen, it was the height of the leaning era,

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Speaker 4: the height of the girl boss era, and you know,

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Speaker 4: in some ways we had reached the pinnacle of that

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Speaker 4: second wave of feminism. In what we had to do

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Speaker 4: was rethink, well, if I have clocked in a decade

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Speaker 4: plus in my career and I don't serve my husband

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Speaker 4: cocktails at the end of the day, right, these are

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Speaker 4: dads who are three times as involved with their kids

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Speaker 4: versus any generation prior. And I have all this access

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Speaker 4: to tools and technology, so I know I'm going to

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Speaker 4: continue to grow. Then how can I re architect my

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Speaker 4: sense of playing the long game. I'm actually pausing, and

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Speaker 4: this isn't a career ender, and actually this is going

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Speaker 4: to be one stage in my life. The idea of ambition,

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Speaker 4: specifically is the determination to do things with care, and

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Speaker 4: the reality is we're going to care about a lot

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Speaker 4: of things over the long game life.

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Speaker 2: I have a good friend who just had a baby,

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Speaker 2: and pre baby was very career focused. Post baby, she's

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Speaker 2: really considering a career pause. Now, for someone like her,

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Speaker 2: what's the first place to start? What questions should she

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Speaker 2: be asking herself or asking her partner? Well, I think

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Speaker 2: the first place is, you know, have I explored all

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Speaker 2: the options to make room for family? Because there are

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Speaker 2: more than the black and white idea of pausing or

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Speaker 2: staying full time right, there's such a vast in between

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Speaker 2: of stay at women working. The second question is do

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Speaker 2: I need to stay connected to this particular role to

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Speaker 2: preserve my options? And if the answer still feels like yes,

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Speaker 2: then you know, is there a part time or flexible

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Speaker 2: arrangement that feels available to me? And if the answer

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Speaker 2: is no, then you might say, okay, Well, if I pause,

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Speaker 2: what are ways in which I can think about strategically

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Speaker 2: navigating my exit so that I'm going to feel empowered,

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Speaker 2: so that I can know that I have a study

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Speaker 2: on ramp if I want to come back.

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Speaker 1: To that particular work.

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Speaker 4: But I think the other piece is if I am

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Speaker 4: pausing or me and my partner aligned on this being

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Speaker 4: a joint household decision. If you are wanting to shift,

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Speaker 4: that decision needs to be made together with the foundational

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Speaker 4: understanding that even if you pause, your paid work, you

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Speaker 4: are still contributing, So the partner working out of the

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Speaker 4: home is equally dependent on the work you're doing in

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Speaker 4: the home and the intellectual and emotional labor you're going

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Speaker 4: to be contributing, so they can single task. And deciding

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Speaker 4: that budgeting for that allows you the ability to then

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Speaker 4: walk through this stage of life knowing you both deserve

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Speaker 4: to be whole and healthy and that you feel respected

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Speaker 4: as you navigate the next chapter.

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Speaker 2: That part feels so important because you could make a

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Speaker 2: decision and your partner, it says they're on the same page,

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Speaker 2: they're not.

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Speaker 1: That's that, I think is what scares.

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Speaker 4: A lot of women one hundred percent because even if

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Speaker 4: this is a financial no brainer, this idea of parting

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Speaker 4: with our financial independence, this idea of dependent has just

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Speaker 4: felt so scary for so long, and so being able

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Speaker 4: to challenge that and think of yourselves as a business

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Speaker 4: organization like depersonalize it for a little bit. In say,

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Speaker 4: household income in, household income out, we're making an adjustment

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Speaker 4: together to the household's income. Right. I've heard of couples

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Speaker 4: making big, bold moves from San Francisco to Virginia for

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Speaker 4: lower cost of living I've seen other couples say, you

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Speaker 4: know what, We're going to turn down travel opportunities for

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Speaker 4: this year because that's the sort of wig overom we

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Speaker 4: need to part with income. If you start to feel that,

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Speaker 4: wait a second, I don't feel like I'm going to

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Speaker 4: have equal access to this household income or the mindset

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Speaker 4: of both being interdependent on one another is getting harder

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Speaker 4: to come by in this conversation. Bring in a mayoral

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Speaker 4: counselor bring in a fair play facility tator, bring in

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Speaker 4: a financial planner, because the reality is if you don't

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Speaker 4: feel secure in that, then stepping into this is a risk.

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Speaker 4: If you are in a rocky marriage, this is not

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Speaker 4: the time to be parting with your income. If you

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Speaker 4: need to pause or make more room, consider ways in

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Speaker 4: which you can stay connected to income. Right.

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Speaker 2: Is there anything specifically that you did with your husband

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Speaker 2: that you think helped make your pause successful.

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Speaker 4: We did bouts, a couple's therapy. I think we did

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Speaker 4: one thing really well, which is we had started looking

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Speaker 4: at our budget in our forecast well before we had children,

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Speaker 4: so we had an established cadence of meeting every January

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Speaker 4: and having a financial planning session for the year. Assigning

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Speaker 4: ourselves budgets, so it didn't feel prescriptive. Then when we

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Speaker 4: were doing it with kids, that was an exercise we'd

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Speaker 4: been doing year over year. You know, that was already

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Speaker 4: built into our vernacular. But we kept it up. And

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Speaker 4: I think this idea of a team of mentality serves

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Speaker 4: you later on because if you foundationally believe that you

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Speaker 4: both are contributing, you both are doing work of value,

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Speaker 4: you both deserve to be healthy and whole. Then on

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Speaker 4: the weekends when you have downtime, it's not you know,

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Speaker 4: the person working out of the home who needs a break.

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Speaker 4: You both need breaks. And then you're both figuring out

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Speaker 4: ways in which you can give yourselves that, whether that's

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Speaker 4: outsourcing you know, to a date night babysitter, or you're

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Speaker 4: trading off hours on the weekend. I would say we

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Speaker 4: really succeeded in seeing it as a partnership, and when

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Speaker 4: we hit troubles along the way. I remember the first

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Speaker 4: time he called it a luxury to stay home, and

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Speaker 4: he was like, well, it's a luxury, and I was said, what, listen,

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Speaker 4: have you ever been at home with two children? There's

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Speaker 4: nothing luxurious about those. We went to therapyge and just

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Speaker 4: you know, and so much of that was working through

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Speaker 4: the language, and we really had, you know, our values

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Speaker 4: were aligned, but we did have to sort of shift

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Speaker 4: our mindsets around value. Were you I rate when he

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Speaker 4: said that I rate bananas? I remember when he said that.

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Speaker 4: I couldn't quite get my head around why it was

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Speaker 4: so bothersome. And then I did the digging and I realized,

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Speaker 4: wait a second. We have associated stay at home motherhood

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Speaker 4: with luxury for so long in this country, and the

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Speaker 4: problem with that is as soon as you associate one

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Speaker 4: side with luxury, you decide it's not work of value,

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Speaker 4: and or you deem it not worthy of support. One

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Speaker 4: in three women feel forced to make this choice because

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Speaker 4: of the cost of childcare. The privilege I have is

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Speaker 4: to get to choose, and the privilege my husband and

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Speaker 4: I had was to.

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Speaker 1: Get to choose.

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Speaker 4: But that was a privilege that we both shared. So

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Speaker 4: there was a nice lot talking too, But luckily it

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Speaker 4: helped fill up an entire chapter of the book.

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Speaker 2: Speaking of the book, before it even begins, you have

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Speaker 2: a page that says how to use this book, which

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Speaker 2: I love. You write that this book is for women

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Speaker 2: who have the privilege to pause their careers. According to

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Speaker 2: your American Mothers on Pause survey, over forty percent of

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Speaker 2: women say they worry about money after stepping back from work,

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Speaker 2: even though they also say it was totally worth it.

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Speaker 2: Is there anything specific, aside from aligning on budgets with

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Speaker 2: your spouse that you think can set you up for

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Speaker 2: financial success in the transition.

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Speaker 4: There's some tactical pieces like planning six months ahead ideally

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Speaker 4: and having at least three months of reserves in the bank.

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Speaker 4: And most people don't know, but you can be getting

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Speaker 4: a spousal IRA, so your spouse can be contributing to

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Speaker 4: your IRA even when you're not.

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Speaker 1: Working for pay.

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Speaker 4: There are some of those technical pieces that just take planning,

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Speaker 4: and I think that's the foundational piece, is planning and

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Speaker 4: making sure we don't like trip and fall into this

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Speaker 4: decision and then realize you don't have a plan. I

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Speaker 4: think the other piece that was interesting was some of

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Speaker 4: the creative ways people practiced and budgeting. Some said like, Okay,

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Speaker 4: we're going to go through six months having cut the

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Speaker 4: costs that were predicting cutting, and we're going to see

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Speaker 4: how that feels before we come in to it. I

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Speaker 4: heard of someone else trialing living on one income. So

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Speaker 4: they contributed all of.

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Speaker 2: Her Oh that's interesting her salary into her four to

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Speaker 2: one k, so that she a had that later on,

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Speaker 2: but b that they were able to practice living on

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Speaker 2: one income. And so there are some really creative and

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Speaker 2: interesting ways to do that. And again, I think it

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Speaker 2: just takes that forward thought and the joint team thinking

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Speaker 2: around money. Simon was sharing in preparation for this that

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Speaker 2: she felt there was also a little bit of a

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Speaker 2: mental battle here too, because a lot of women feel

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Speaker 2: pride around being independent, funding their own lives without having

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Speaker 2: to rely on a partner. Do you think there's ways

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Speaker 2: that we can reframe and feel empowered by the decision.

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Speaker 4: If an at home parent was compensated, it would be

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Speaker 4: one hundred and eighty four thousand dollars a yere, no

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Speaker 4: one is paying you that. However, I do think having

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Speaker 4: some of that backpocket data is helpful in reframing that

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Speaker 4: this is not work anyone would do without help. If

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Speaker 4: your friend was getting paid, that they would be considered

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Speaker 4: having a big job. All of that data doesn't even

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Speaker 4: include the emotional and intellectual labor that we keep talking about.

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Speaker 4: It talks about stuffurring, it talks about cooking and talks

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Speaker 4: about nutrition, but it doesn't really speak to the stuff

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Speaker 4: you can't outsource.

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Speaker 2: We have to take a quick break, but we'll be

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Speaker 2: right back with Neha Rush And we're back with Neha Roush.

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Speaker 2: I've tried to figure out a way to reframe the

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Speaker 2: question what you do, because I've noticed I'll ask people

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Speaker 2: and sometimes stay at home mothers, I can feel they're like, oh,

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Speaker 2: I just I must stay at home mom, or they

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Speaker 2: qualify I'm just to stay at home mom, And in

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Speaker 2: my mind, I'm like, it's not just.

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Speaker 1: But there's no great way to ask that question.

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Speaker 2: And I think that in reading your book, one of

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Speaker 2: the things that I was really learning is this struggle

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Speaker 2: with identity.

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Speaker 1: In the moment of career pause.

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Speaker 4: First of all, what do you do? It is such

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Speaker 4: a universal stumbling block. The phrase has just come to

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Speaker 4: stand in for who are you? And when you rely

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Speaker 4: on your professional title to sum up the things you

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Speaker 4: care about. There was a woman I interviewed.

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Speaker 1: And she.

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Speaker 4: Was a teacher, and she got great prating from saying

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Speaker 4: she was a teacher, because it immediately communicated that she

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Speaker 4: was empathetic, that she might have been calm, that she

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Speaker 4: was a communicator that she was intellectually curious, and it

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Speaker 4: communicated so much about her without that many words, And

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Speaker 4: when you part with that, you don't have that language

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Speaker 4: as easily available to you. So you have to figure out, well,

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Speaker 4: what belongs to me without that. If you are a teacher,

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Speaker 4: or if you're a brand marketer, or if you were

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Speaker 4: in the media, or if you were a lawyer, that

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Speaker 4: skill and experience doesn't evautrate just because you're not practicing right,

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Speaker 4: So if you want to identify with that, still go

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Speaker 4: right ahead. There's something interesting about the opportunity of reflecting on, well,

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Speaker 4: what parts of that identity go with me? What do

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Speaker 4: I get to take from In my example, from that

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Speaker 4: decade in brand marketing, I'm creative. I'm so curious about

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Speaker 4: how women work and stories and all of that gets

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Speaker 4: to go with me, And I wonder what else I

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Speaker 4: can now explore in this stage of life. I've heard

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Speaker 4: this anecdotally that women working out of the home me

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Speaker 4: not want to ask a woman who they perceive as

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Speaker 4: a stay at home mom. They might not want to

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Speaker 4: ask them what to do because they don't want to

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Speaker 4: make them uncomfortable. And I think that there is this

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Speaker 4: fear of we're going to make them uncomfortable, but that's

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Speaker 4: on them to work through. It's our job to include

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Speaker 4: them in the conversation. And worse than being asked what

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Speaker 4: you do is not being asked right because then you

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Speaker 4: are automatically content out of the conversation. So another way

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Speaker 4: to ask might be what are you up to for

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Speaker 4: the rest of the day. It gives you a chance

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Speaker 4: to talk about how you're actually spending your time. Right

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Speaker 4: on the inverse, the real language that served me was

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Speaker 4: right now, because it's a chapter in life. This is

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Speaker 4: one part of my story. I get to be with

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Speaker 4: my kids. That's what I'm actually doing with my time.

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Speaker 4: We'll see what comes next.

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Speaker 2: I love that so much because at the core of

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Speaker 2: that question is someone just trying to understand what your

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Speaker 2: interests are and how you spend your time. And so

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Speaker 2: you're just reframing that.

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Speaker 4: And I think there's a relief that we give ourselves

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Speaker 4: that we don't have to be fixed into this decision forever.

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Speaker 4: But we can own the power or the privilege to

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Speaker 4: get to choose this and stand in the power of that.

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Speaker 4: If you didn't choose, you can say I'm spending time

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Speaker 4: with my kids right now.

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Speaker 1: That's it.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot of feelings I imagine that come up

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Speaker 2: after deciding to take a career pause. What are some

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Speaker 2: of those usual feelings. There's a real fear around becoming irrelevant.

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Speaker 2: It's sort of the third myth that we try and

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Speaker 2: dismantle in the book is this idea that your career

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Speaker 2: pause is your career ender. For the reasons we just

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Speaker 2: talked about, all of that experience goes with you, right

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Speaker 2: and I wish I had done a better job of this,

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Speaker 2: so I spent time with it on the book. When

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Speaker 2: you're resigning, you're actually networking on your way out to

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Speaker 2: essentially build the bridge back for yourself. You're taking a

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Speaker 2: mentor out for coffee, or you're taking the administrative assistant

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Speaker 2: who you had such a nice connection with out to

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Speaker 2: a drink, because you want to be able to nurture

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Speaker 2: that network that may serve you really well. And the

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Speaker 2: nice thing about what the era we're living in right

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Speaker 2: now is that we can stay connected. It takes thirty

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Speaker 2: minutes a week maybe to scroll your LinkedIn feed and

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Speaker 2: be able to engage with former employers, former colleagues, content

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Speaker 2: and know that.

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Speaker 1: That web still exists.

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Speaker 4: The other thing I wish I'd done was take stock

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Speaker 4: of my experience when I left. You know, you forget

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Speaker 4: those little moments that lit you up, that those big

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Speaker 4: wins that are sort of tangible and easy to communicate,

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Speaker 4: and you want those intact and I think being able

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Speaker 4: to sort of dignify what you did before reminds you

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Speaker 4: that those skills are still there for you to draw on.

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Speaker 4: The other piece is this idea of like, you can

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Speaker 4: also update your LinkedIn headline to say ten your market

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Speaker 4: or something interesting about you that makes you nance right,

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Speaker 4: curious about women currently volunteering, were currently on sabbatical, something

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Speaker 4: that just speaks to where you are without shutting yourself off.

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Speaker 4: And then there's a fear of feeling stuck and not

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Speaker 4: growling and not knowing what comes next. That's my favorite

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Speaker 4: part to talk about because that's actually where.

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Speaker 1: You can use this.

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Speaker 4: Stage of life to get really intentional, and I think

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Speaker 4: that's the part that's lesser talked about.

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Speaker 2: My mom told me she took I think four years

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Speaker 2: off when she had my brother and I we were

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Speaker 2: two years apart, and she said those were some of

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Speaker 2: the hardest years of her life.

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Speaker 1: She really enjoyed working.

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Speaker 2: And she felt that sense of stuckness for a person

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Speaker 2: like that who takes a career pause and then thought,

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Speaker 2: maybe this isn't for me.

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Speaker 1: What does somebody do?

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Speaker 4: Then you're allowed to reevaluate your decision at any time.

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Speaker 4: First of all, it's normal to feel a little bit

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Speaker 4: of grief as your trait and discomfort as your transition.

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Speaker 4: Even if this was your choice, it's going to going

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Speaker 4: to feel uncomfortable. And I think that the part around

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Speaker 4: that is really starts with giving yourself permission that this

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Speaker 4: stage of life you might have chosen or not chosen to,

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Speaker 4: but it happened that you're making room to raise your kids,

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Speaker 4: but you can actually make room to grow alongside. When

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Speaker 4: we reframe that as yes, we are here in this

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Speaker 4: moment in this chapter to focus on our family life

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Speaker 4: and to thrive in family life, and for our family

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Speaker 4: to thrive, they deserve a healthy and whole parent. What

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Speaker 4: can I do now to plant seeds for my future

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00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:41,200
Speaker 4: vision state? You know, I think a lot about how

440
00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:44,600
Speaker 4: when I was in the workforce, I know many women

441
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:47,199
Speaker 4: were this way. You know, you go at the end

442
00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:49,280
Speaker 4: of your year end review and you kind of say

443
00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:51,119
Speaker 4: the things you have to say to get a promotion

444
00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:54,360
Speaker 4: or a salary bump. This is actually the only time

445
00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:57,560
Speaker 4: where you're reporting only to yourself. And when you're reporting

446
00:23:57,560 --> 00:24:00,199
Speaker 4: to yourself, what are those metrics? Right? And if you

447
00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:03,000
Speaker 4: aren't going to get a promotion and you aren't going

448
00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:06,640
Speaker 4: to get a salary, how else can you measure success?

449
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:11,600
Speaker 4: And too often we see women feel like, well, if

450
00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:13,679
Speaker 4: I'm going to be taking care of my kids, my

451
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:17,280
Speaker 4: metric for success is their behavior the state of my home.

452
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:22,520
Speaker 4: But can we reframe this to think for ourselves if

453
00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:25,600
Speaker 4: we want to measure our own growth, how can we

454
00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:28,440
Speaker 4: start to back into what are measures of success? And

455
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:30,400
Speaker 4: I mean I talk about a number of different ways,

456
00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:34,919
Speaker 4: but my favorite one is forecast your ideal day in

457
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:38,199
Speaker 4: five ten years, right, great detail where you're spending time with,

458
00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:41,000
Speaker 4: what are you're spending time on, how do you feel

459
00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:42,639
Speaker 4: in your body? How do you feel in your mind?

460
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:47,600
Speaker 4: Because that will reveal to you, well, what do I

461
00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:51,960
Speaker 4: really care about moving myself toward? And I think in

462
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:55,840
Speaker 4: that way, we reclaim this time for ourselves and we

463
00:24:55,920 --> 00:25:02,120
Speaker 4: dignify that time with goals.

464
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:02,840
Speaker 2: For another short break, but don't go anywhere. We'll be

465
00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:13,760
Speaker 2: right back and we're back with njar roush Okay, going

466
00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:17,240
Speaker 2: to Your American Mother's on Pause survey, the majority of

467
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:19,320
Speaker 2: stay at home moms say they find the process of

468
00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:21,160
Speaker 2: applying to jobs pretty intimidating.

469
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:23,040
Speaker 1: Where do you think.

470
00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:25,960
Speaker 2: The best place to look for the next big job

471
00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:28,640
Speaker 2: or the next big opportunity is when.

472
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:32,479
Speaker 4: You have been on a career pause. Well, ideally you

473
00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:35,880
Speaker 4: start that practice kind of right away. There's such an

474
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:39,639
Speaker 4: interesting moment of self study, this idea that once you

475
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:44,440
Speaker 4: step into a career break, no one's tracking those accomplishments,

476
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:47,320
Speaker 4: but you can. Can you write down and make a

477
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:51,320
Speaker 4: list in your phone iPhone out We're on a Google

478
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:57,080
Speaker 4: doc of what's a moment that sparked your interest, What's

479
00:25:57,080 --> 00:26:00,919
Speaker 4: something that made you feel proud this week? Any and

480
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:04,200
Speaker 4: all things. And it might seem completely disparate, but when

481
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:07,919
Speaker 4: you look back, the dots will connect and they'll do

482
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:10,199
Speaker 4: two things. One and I'll use the example of this

483
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:14,040
Speaker 4: woman in North Carolina who what jumped out to her

484
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:17,440
Speaker 4: and looking back at a year of notes was that

485
00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:23,480
Speaker 4: one time that she helped her local school system organize

486
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:26,760
Speaker 4: a new bus route for her area which was underserved.

487
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:30,760
Speaker 4: One it revealed to her that she's actually really interested

488
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:35,639
Speaker 4: in project management. Second thing, when she realized she wanted

489
00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:38,439
Speaker 4: to go into project management, which was not necessarily like

490
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:42,240
Speaker 4: a full pivot, but it was an evolution from where

491
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:46,920
Speaker 4: she was. She started to put the bullets under her

492
00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:51,679
Speaker 4: experience over these last couple of years together, and she

493
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:54,480
Speaker 4: was able to fancify that one experience to make it relevant.

494
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 4: Game changing suddenly gave her an ability to speak with

495
00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:02,480
Speaker 4: confidence to number of relevant experiences that she had during

496
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:05,639
Speaker 4: that time away. And I'm not saying brush under the

497
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:07,480
Speaker 4: rug that she paused her career to take care of

498
00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:09,480
Speaker 4: family life, but she has a way in which to

499
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:12,440
Speaker 4: speak to how she expanded her skills in like really

500
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:14,040
Speaker 4: tangible practical ways.

501
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 2: What are some pitfalls to look out for when you're

502
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:19,520
Speaker 2: planning a return to work.

503
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:24,240
Speaker 4: I ran into this and I work for myself. Whatever

504
00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:28,880
Speaker 4: your shift is that you're stepping into around career and family.

505
00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:33,639
Speaker 4: When you're entering in a new season, there's re examination

506
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:35,800
Speaker 4: between your partner and you, and so we go back

507
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:40,679
Speaker 4: to those meetings around how might we think about the

508
00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:43,000
Speaker 4: dynamic that's shifting. In this case, it might not be

509
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:45,440
Speaker 4: a money conversation, but it might be a roles and

510
00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:49,320
Speaker 4: responsibilities conversation right, And I think too often we've been

511
00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:53,679
Speaker 4: so focused on the re entry and our children have

512
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:58,080
Speaker 4: grown along side and maybe their needs have changed, but

513
00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:02,159
Speaker 4: we try and have similar to the money meetings are

514
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:05,399
Speaker 4: pretty consistent back to school. It is a sort of

515
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:10,400
Speaker 4: normal inflection point or revisiting period where we've re examined

516
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:15,280
Speaker 4: the routines, who's doing pickups, lay out all the cards

517
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:20,159
Speaker 4: and the fair play, and reassign them because what we

518
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:22,880
Speaker 4: don't want to see is we take on more work

519
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:26,639
Speaker 4: outside of the home and we're still holding all of

520
00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:29,400
Speaker 4: the cards that we were before. For many women who

521
00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:33,160
Speaker 4: have been carrying the sort of unpaid intellectual emotional labor

522
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:37,520
Speaker 4: for so long, it can very quickly continue to default

523
00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:40,400
Speaker 4: that way unless you intentionally have that dialogue, and not

524
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:42,680
Speaker 4: just with your husband, with your kids too. I got

525
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:45,280
Speaker 4: some great wisdom from Tova Klein, who I interviewed for

526
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:49,400
Speaker 4: the book, and she said, it's not about working in

527
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:50,240
Speaker 4: or out of the home.

528
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:51,040
Speaker 3: Right.

529
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:54,360
Speaker 4: We know that there are equally healthy outcomes for children

530
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:57,240
Speaker 4: no matter what. It's about having a present parent when

531
00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:00,440
Speaker 4: you are there, So how can you redefine intently what

532
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:02,880
Speaker 4: that presence is going to look like for you? And

533
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 4: maybe I'll give you my example. I now work until

534
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:10,320
Speaker 4: four thirty every day, and I return home and I

535
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:12,920
Speaker 4: put my phone away on the front console table and

536
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:15,440
Speaker 4: I don't pick it up again untill eight. So I

537
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:19,360
Speaker 4: know that from an hour's perspective, I'm spending far fewer hours.

538
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:23,320
Speaker 4: But that was what allows me the ability to feel

539
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:29,040
Speaker 4: really confident that they're still getting a whole and present parent.

540
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:31,520
Speaker 4: The other piece of this is our needs and wants

541
00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:34,040
Speaker 4: are allowed to shift over time, just like the whole

542
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 4: family units.

543
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:38,560
Speaker 2: Nothing makes me feel more loved and cared for than

544
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:41,800
Speaker 2: when someone puts their phone away. Oh and so I

545
00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 2: think your kids must feel that me too. Okay, this

546
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:48,479
Speaker 2: is Simone's great question and I want to share it

547
00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:51,080
Speaker 2: even though she's not here. She said she wants to

548
00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:54,560
Speaker 2: talk child care. This feels like the biggest barrier for

549
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:56,920
Speaker 2: her and most of the moms that she speaks to,

550
00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:01,640
Speaker 2: and the biggest struggle. So during her pause, it was

551
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:04,200
Speaker 2: hard to find help and then pay for it. What

552
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:06,040
Speaker 2: are some creative ways to find help?

553
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:10,640
Speaker 4: I think the first piece was that she struggled, and

554
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:13,000
Speaker 4: if I remember correctly, with this idea that if I'm

555
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:16,360
Speaker 4: not doing paid work, I don't deserve paid help, right,

556
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:19,200
Speaker 4: and I think that that sadly, we see reflected in

557
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 4: the research that one in three women feel that way.

558
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:25,560
Speaker 4: This work is of value, but it's also work, and

559
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:28,640
Speaker 4: no one should expect to do that twenty four to

560
00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:32,840
Speaker 4: seven without breaks. With that in mind, the next question becomes, Okay,

561
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:36,120
Speaker 4: the most readily available person to give you a break

562
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:38,360
Speaker 4: is your partner in the case of a two parent household.

563
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 4: So how might we have conversations with our partner in

564
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:44,480
Speaker 4: the case of especially if we don't have access to

565
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:48,040
Speaker 4: paid help, about how we might be able to take

566
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:50,400
Speaker 4: the mornings to ourselves, if our partner can wake up

567
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:53,800
Speaker 4: with our child, or even rotate mornings so that we

568
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:56,560
Speaker 4: can have a dependable hour every morning that we can

569
00:30:56,600 --> 00:31:00,440
Speaker 4: work out. You know, we can invest in whatever lights

570
00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:01,840
Speaker 4: us up and keeps us healthy.

571
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:02,280
Speaker 1: Right.

572
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:06,040
Speaker 4: Part two of that is how might you think about

573
00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:08,640
Speaker 4: what else you can delegate? It doesn't always have to

574
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:11,360
Speaker 4: be childcare, and I have a full robust list at

575
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:13,960
Speaker 4: the end of the help chapter. Maybe for you it's

576
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:16,680
Speaker 4: not about getting help with the kids, but it is

577
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:20,640
Speaker 4: about the stuff that you do want to delegate, like laundry,

578
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:25,600
Speaker 4: gift buying, cleaning, in general meals, whatever that might be.

579
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:28,720
Speaker 4: Have that conversation with yourself and in the home about

580
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:31,560
Speaker 4: what are stuff that I can either delegate or let

581
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:33,640
Speaker 4: go of for this time or lower the bar on,

582
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:35,920
Speaker 4: Like we know that we do have to do laundry

583
00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:37,720
Speaker 4: in a house, but how often do we have to

584
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:40,400
Speaker 4: do it? I heard one woman say I just bought

585
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:43,720
Speaker 4: ten under It turns out that like getting ten under

586
00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 4: pats of underwear was just cheaper.

587
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:46,360
Speaker 1: I didn't have to.

588
00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:48,440
Speaker 4: Get like a cleaning lady, but I could only have

589
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:51,760
Speaker 4: to do laundry once a month, once a week and

590
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:52,640
Speaker 4: not made.

591
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:53,320
Speaker 1: Sense for us.

592
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:56,560
Speaker 4: And then the really creative ones were the ones who

593
00:31:56,760 --> 00:32:00,600
Speaker 4: decided to do like a coworking swap where one takes

594
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:03,480
Speaker 4: three kids at a time and then the two others

595
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:06,960
Speaker 4: get a break for a few hours each afternoon. It's

596
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:11,760
Speaker 4: like a win win, But it does take saying you

597
00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 4: need help, putting yourself out there with friends, asking what

598
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:19,240
Speaker 4: other solutions other people are using. It can be nanny shares,

599
00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:22,360
Speaker 4: it can be mothers helpers, It can be your partner

600
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 4: or family. But everyone deserves those breaks.

601
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:30,160
Speaker 2: Nah has you're doing these community events for your book launch,

602
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:34,360
Speaker 2: do you find that women are gravitating towards a chapter

603
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:35,320
Speaker 2: or an idea.

604
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:39,720
Speaker 4: In particular, the chapter on reframing our sense of ambition

605
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:43,760
Speaker 4: that are in our sense of identity is always you know,

606
00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:45,480
Speaker 4: I think it sits at the heart of this work

607
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:52,520
Speaker 4: because we have been fed this idea that our worth

608
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:57,200
Speaker 4: is so tied up to what we do for a living,

609
00:32:57,520 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 4: and if we part with that, who are we? How

610
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:02,240
Speaker 4: do we exist? How do we stay relevant? The other

611
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:04,880
Speaker 4: piece that people are really interested in when they're in

612
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:08,840
Speaker 4: community is when they look around and they realize, wait

613
00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:11,400
Speaker 4: a second, this is not the stay at home mom

614
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:13,600
Speaker 4: fore yesteryear. I think this sort of stay at home

615
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:16,920
Speaker 4: working mother divide has done us no good and we need,

616
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:19,240
Speaker 4: we need a lot more together in this for these

617
00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:20,280
Speaker 4: next few years.

618
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:23,800
Speaker 2: In thinking about the stay at home mother of yesteryear,

619
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:26,680
Speaker 2: I was really interested to learn that the term stay

620
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:29,960
Speaker 2: at home mom only came into our vernacular in the

621
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:33,000
Speaker 2: nineteen nineties, and at the time it was meant to

622
00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:37,520
Speaker 2: modernize the title housewife or homemaker. And so now in

623
00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:40,400
Speaker 2: twenty twenty five, your book is out and you've put

624
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:42,480
Speaker 2: your stake in the ground, which is the word that

625
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:45,560
Speaker 2: you use last time you came on the podcast. How

626
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:48,240
Speaker 2: do you see the term and the perception of stay

627
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:50,240
Speaker 2: at home mom evolve in the future.

628
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 4: My hope is where you can just blur the edges

629
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:55,280
Speaker 4: around it and just get rid of it entirely. I mean,

630
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:58,200
Speaker 4: no one replies I'm a working mom. Like if you

631
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:00,760
Speaker 4: ask what you do, you don't say I'm a working mom.

632
00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:02,680
Speaker 4: There's no reason to say I'm a stay at home mom.

633
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:06,240
Speaker 4: Right Yeah, the ability to just say and I go

634
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:08,040
Speaker 4: back to right now, I get to be with my kids.

635
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:11,600
Speaker 1: We'll see what comes next. One part of a very

636
00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:14,640
Speaker 1: ongoing story.

637
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:19,279
Speaker 2: So I'm obsessed with book dedications, and I open up

638
00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:24,760
Speaker 2: your book and it has a beautiful dedication. It says

639
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:27,920
Speaker 2: for my father for always honoring my mother's impact in

640
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:30,799
Speaker 2: our home and for believing in me and this work too.

641
00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:34,600
Speaker 2: Can you share more about the dedication.

642
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:42,040
Speaker 4: We immigrated here when I was three, and he always

643
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:45,120
Speaker 4: worshiped the ground my mother walked on. I knew that,

644
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:49,200
Speaker 4: but I didn't know how fully he credited her for

645
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:51,600
Speaker 4: the work that he was able to do until I

646
00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:55,560
Speaker 4: got a little bit older. And he always made so

647
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:59,239
Speaker 4: clear that he was not able to do what he

648
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:02,080
Speaker 4: could do about her. He was building a company at

649
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:04,400
Speaker 4: the time where there was a lot of immigrants coming

650
00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:08,680
Speaker 4: in from India, and she was the one who would

651
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:12,080
Speaker 4: settle them into the local community and help line up

652
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:14,520
Speaker 4: housing and schools, that she would house them in many

653
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:17,520
Speaker 4: cases and they would live with us. I mean, it

654
00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:20,160
Speaker 4: was really she was his right, She was his head

655
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:23,359
Speaker 4: of hr and he paid her such respect that I

656
00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:26,040
Speaker 4: didn't even fully understand when I took my own career

657
00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:29,680
Speaker 4: pods the shaman stigma I was going to feel. My

658
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:32,280
Speaker 4: mother did ultimately return to work outside of the home,

659
00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:35,239
Speaker 4: but they always seemed like such a team. And then

660
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:37,920
Speaker 4: that is and maybe is why I talk so much

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00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:41,239
Speaker 4: about that mindset going into these kinds of shifts.

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00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:45,359
Speaker 1: Did he support your career pause? Did you consult him

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00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:46,600
Speaker 1: about it before you decided?

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00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:51,440
Speaker 4: I did, and he he did. I think, you know,

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00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:56,360
Speaker 4: he also put this faith in me that I would

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00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:57,359
Speaker 4: be able.

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00:35:57,040 --> 00:35:58,360
Speaker 1: To turn it into something.

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00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:05,840
Speaker 4: I had that belief and confidence pretty early on. And

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00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:08,040
Speaker 4: we don't always get those messages when we're young, and

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00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:10,399
Speaker 4: we don't always get those messages from the people who

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00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:13,280
Speaker 4: raise us or surround us. And I do feel lucky

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00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:15,600
Speaker 4: in that way, and it is absolutely because I had

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00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:16,480
Speaker 4: him in my corner.

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Speaker 1: It's so beautiful.

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00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:24,200
Speaker 2: This almost feels like it's been a lifetime of practice

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00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:27,719
Speaker 2: and of work. Who are really a culture shifter, And

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00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:30,200
Speaker 2: I'm so glad that this book exists in the world,

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00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:32,400
Speaker 2: and I'm so glad that you've been leading this charge.

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00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:35,200
Speaker 2: So thank you for sharing your time with us today.

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00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:42,640
Speaker 2: Thank you. Danielle nehal Ruche is the founder and CEO

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00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:45,680
Speaker 2: of Mother Untitled and the author of The Power Pause,

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00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:46,480
Speaker 2: which is out.

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00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:56,480
Speaker 3: Now, that's it for today's show. Tomorrow it is Wellness Wednesday, y'all,

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00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:58,880
Speaker 3: and we're talking all about financial health and how to

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00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:01,399
Speaker 3: use AI to reach our money goals. Here to walk

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00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:04,600
Speaker 3: us through it is the self proclaimed Beyonce of personal finance,

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00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:10,880
Speaker 3: Melissa Jean Baptiste. Join the conversation using hashtag the bright

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00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:13,680
Speaker 3: Side and connect with us on social media at Hello

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00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:16,880
Speaker 3: Sunshine on Instagram and at the bright Side Pod on

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00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:20,000
Speaker 3: TikTok Oh, and feel free to tag us at Simone

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00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:22,080
Speaker 3: Boyce and at Danielle Robe.

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00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:25,520
Speaker 2: Listen and follow The bright Side on the iHeartRadio app,

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00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:28,239
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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Speaker 3: See you tomorrow, folks. Keep looking on the bright side.