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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stradio Lab, and intellectual podcast about straight culture

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Speaker 1: and also a stupid podcast about nothing. Don't say that

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Speaker 1: it's just true. I don't want to lie to our listeners.

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Speaker 1: I'm George Severe, and I'm Sam Taggart, and this lab

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Speaker 1: podcast starts. Podcast starts now. Hello everyone, and welcome to

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Speaker 1: Stradio Lab, the world's most critically acclaimed podcast ever known.

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Speaker 1: They acclaim feels sometimes oppressive. I would say, well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: because it sort of doesn't allow us to experiment, because

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Speaker 1: then it says the bar so high that we have

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Speaker 1: to sort of reach this acclaim again and again and again.

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Speaker 1: And and I know that now I've gotten used to it,

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Speaker 1: and so that when we take that big experimental plunge

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Speaker 1: and we lose the critics for even a moment, it'll hurt.

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Speaker 1: And also I feel like sometimes people, you know, will

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Speaker 1: over intellect all the critics will over intellectualize it, and

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Speaker 1: they will project their ideas onto us, and it actually feels,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's stereotyping. Just because we're gay doesn't mean

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Speaker 1: we're smart, so to like, you know, we can't even

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Speaker 1: say something stupid without then someone being like, oh wow,

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Speaker 1: that's kind of a commentary on the condition on being stupid. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's like, oh, and you're like, why do you refuse

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Speaker 1: to see what I'm trying to do here? George? I

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Speaker 1: think you bring up such an interesting point is that

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Speaker 1: critics like what it is is projection that they're doing.

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Speaker 1: It's like, critics would rather review your podcast positively instead

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Speaker 1: of go to therapy. And it's and they would even

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Speaker 1: they would rather review something positively or negatively than go

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Speaker 1: to therapy. Those are like the two there are two

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Speaker 1: modes of going to therapy. It's like if they're depressed,

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Speaker 1: if they're in a depressive mood, they'll do a critical review.

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Speaker 1: If they're in a kind of manic mood, they will

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Speaker 1: do a positive review. And it's like, what's the endgame here?

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Speaker 1: Because you're not getting any healthier. Yeah, it is sort

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Speaker 1: of like did she give the performance of a lifetime

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Speaker 1: or did you just have breakfast this morning? You know

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Speaker 1: what I mean? Right right? And they do get um

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Speaker 1: they're very jumpy, you know. It's like a critic goes

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Speaker 1: to let's say a film festival. I mean, they're essentially

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Speaker 1: like on bath salts the whole time. I mean, they

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Speaker 1: they feel so deeply and yet so incorrectly that it's

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Speaker 1: you know, it's actually, um, it's putting them deeper and

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Speaker 1: deeper into the pits of their own self mythology. Well,

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Speaker 1: I do think, you know, we say there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of pressure on us as critical darlings, but I think

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Speaker 1: as critics, I kind of can't imagine the amount of

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Speaker 1: pressure that they have. If you're sort of a reputable

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Speaker 1: critic and you can just you know, make or break

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Speaker 1: somebody with a little review in your little magazine, I

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Speaker 1: I would that would be kind of tough for me.

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Speaker 1: I would I would get a god complex and I

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Speaker 1: think it would kind of drive me insane. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: then they here's the thing they do. Um, that's the thing.

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Speaker 1: You know. It's interesting because we are also critics. M No.

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Speaker 1: I think that's a really smart point, is that we

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Speaker 1: are critics, just not at a magazine, right, so it's

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Speaker 1: more authentic define what a critic is. Why would I

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Speaker 1: cheapen being a critic by writing it down or completing

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Speaker 1: a thought? So you're saying that everyone's a critic, or

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Speaker 1: I'm saying I'm a critic and that I don't want

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Speaker 1: to cheapen that by writing it down. Oh, okay, I

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Speaker 1: hear it. Just because I think that about myself doesn't

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Speaker 1: mean everyone is like that. You're saying that we criticize

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Speaker 1: for the love of the game. They criticize for profit

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Speaker 1: and it bastardizes it. Yes, but it's not even for

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Speaker 1: the love of the game. It's actually for it's to

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Speaker 1: create for the culture. It's not for the love of

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Speaker 1: the game, as though like, oh, like, it's just a

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Speaker 1: hobby that I'm enjoying. It's not. You know, I'm not

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Speaker 1: kind of taking a jewelry making class. I'm doing it

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Speaker 1: for the sake of survival. Sure, sure, okay, yeah that

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Speaker 1: makes sense to me. It's just weird to me. I

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Speaker 1: guess that you need to sort of take people that

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Speaker 1: take jewelry classes down in pag in order to make

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Speaker 1: your point. Well, I don't know. I mean, when was

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Speaker 1: the last time you met someone who took a jewelry

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Speaker 1: making class and then had an interesting conversation with them?

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Speaker 1: That's true? Tell you what, I feel like, some of

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Speaker 1: these critics should take a damn jewelry making class. Can

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Speaker 1: I say something? And this and now I'm really putting

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Speaker 1: my mask down. The reason I said jewelry making classes

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Speaker 1: because someone I know took one, and in fact, that

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Speaker 1: someone is one of my best friends, and and constantly

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Speaker 1: it says interesting things, and if she listens to this,

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Speaker 1: she will think, Wow, he is hiding behind his podcast

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Speaker 1: and finally telling me what he thinks of me. And

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Speaker 1: in fact, that's not what I think. I was just

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Speaker 1: going along with a bit. And that is an example

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Speaker 1: of inauthentic criticism thoughts, So because you don't actually hate

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Speaker 1: all people that take well, I was doing I was

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Speaker 1: almost doing this. It's like I wanted to say something

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Speaker 1: critical and then I just grasped onto the first thing

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Speaker 1: I could think of. You know what you were. That's like,

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Speaker 1: that's like toxic gay guy. Yes, you were, like I

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Speaker 1: can be a bit about anything. You were, like I

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Speaker 1: can say anything about anything, and it's like it has

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Speaker 1: authority because I'm a gay guy. Yeah, and you you

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Speaker 1: sort of took that power and like you abused it

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Speaker 1: actually right, And you know, I think both of us

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Speaker 1: are kind of in a space where, you know, you

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Speaker 1: make fun so much of we both you know, would

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Speaker 1: make fun of people that said something like let people

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Speaker 1: enjoy things, you know, like why does it ask to

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Speaker 1: be so critical? Let people enjoy things, almost to the

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Speaker 1: point where now horseshoe theorying around and now I'm like, wait,

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Speaker 1: maybe let people enjoy things, you know what I mean?

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm like, wait, if the alternative is being

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Speaker 1: a stupid gay guy, then yeah, I'd rather just let

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Speaker 1: people enjoy things. It is so they let people enjoy

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Speaker 1: things versus the be critical of things conversation is one

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Speaker 1: of the hardest conversations to have. It's almost like I

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Speaker 1: don't want to get into those waters because it's like

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Speaker 1: both sides are so toxic that it's more like I

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Speaker 1: want to be like Dolly Parton and a political on it,

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Speaker 1: Like I don't think you should. You know, you can't

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Speaker 1: enjoy everything. The only way out is to be Dolly.

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Speaker 1: The only way I was to be Dolly even that,

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Speaker 1: But you can't be a political when everything is political

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Speaker 1: because it's complicity. Yeah, so I guess I'm complicit and

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Speaker 1: to let people enjoy things, be critical of things debate,

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Speaker 1: I guess does that make me pro let people enjoy things? Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, I think we're all kind of trapped in

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Speaker 1: a circle of doom. How would you feel about bringing

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Speaker 1: in our guests? I think that could be a slagh,

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Speaker 1: I would say, okay, wait, wait, wait, before we're being

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Speaker 1: our guests, I think our guests might have a thought

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Speaker 1: on this. But I want to say, slagh is like

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Speaker 1: has been the word that has like had such surprising

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Speaker 1: lasting power, and for some reason and somehow it has

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Speaker 1: been imbued with this sense of irony where it's cool

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Speaker 1: now and it's like it was sincere it was slagh

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Speaker 1: yes mama, but now it's like actually slay yes mama

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Speaker 1: in a way that is like funny and and implies

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Speaker 1: being in the know. No No. Even it's almost like wearing

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Speaker 1: an ugly shirt and being like, but I'm wearing it cool. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean it's pretty much yeah. I you know what, Actually,

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Speaker 1: let's let's bring her in with that with the intention

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Speaker 1: of getting her take on that specific topic. What do

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Speaker 1: you think about that? I think that's genius. Okay, please

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Speaker 1: welcome the star of the upcoming Queer s Folk reboot

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Speaker 1: Theta Hamil. You know that's not it's not untrue. Say more.

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Speaker 1: I I did get an email at some point to

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Speaker 1: audition for that, not for not for any sort of

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Speaker 1: starring role, but I did not respond at all because

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Speaker 1: I thought that it was such a bad idea, and

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Speaker 1: now apparently it's out, yeah right, and everyone's talking about

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Speaker 1: it's a huge it's a water cooler classic, it's um

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Speaker 1: and it's really it's really a tribute to the good

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Speaker 1: work that was done twenty years ago on the original show,

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Speaker 1: where everybody learned about how much they that guy loves

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Speaker 1: to suck cock. You know what, Yeah, go ahead, I know, well,

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Speaker 1: I want to hear your thoughts on you know what.

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Speaker 1: I What I was gonna say is just like, of course,

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Speaker 1: it's like I'm laughing at what you're saying, and it's

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Speaker 1: so funny to think that at the same time, quite literally,

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Speaker 1: that's where I learned about sucking cock. Yeah, Like that's

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Speaker 1: the real tragedy of all of this, is like you're

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Speaker 1: kind of like, sure, I can make fun of someone

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Speaker 1: being like calling it a you know, and instilling it

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Speaker 1: with some meaning that I find almost disingenuous, because ultimately

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Speaker 1: it wasn't like it was almost unintentionally important. It wasn't

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Speaker 1: important because it was good art. It was important because

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Speaker 1: it was the only thing there was. And I found

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Speaker 1: it on daily motion dot Com and I and I

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Speaker 1: searched sex scenes only season two. We're the sex scenes

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Speaker 1: good in season two, I remember actually a decline in

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Speaker 1: sex scene like I agree, I agree. I feel like

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Speaker 1: the first season was had all this I love sucking

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Speaker 1: cock because it was all a just you know, I

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Speaker 1: was a young fellow at the time and like the

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Speaker 1: and it was like Justin or Dustin, where the fun

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Speaker 1: his name is? Doesn't he have to do this big

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Speaker 1: thing where you like tell us his mom? He's like, mom, dad,

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Speaker 1: guess what I love cop and like that is um

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Speaker 1: that is like very developmentally uh imprinted on went essential

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Speaker 1: like a conflation of mother at the confessional and then

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Speaker 1: just the vulgarity and and but then I remember, as

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Speaker 1: I when I finally got access to the show as

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Speaker 1: an out adult or whatever and watched all the DVDs

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Speaker 1: that from the high school or from the college library,

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Speaker 1: it was not as erotically titilating. It was just more

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Speaker 1: like a soap. Yeah. I also got the DVDs from

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Speaker 1: the college library that it was that we needed something

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Speaker 1: to do, And I remember secretly secretly watching them in

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Speaker 1: my room and being like I and never let anyone

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Speaker 1: know about this, but it was I remember thinking it

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Speaker 1: was kind of hot still, but I also didn't know

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Speaker 1: really what sex was. I mean there was. There's just

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Speaker 1: something so almost liberating about being the first, not even

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Speaker 1: adding to a conversation, just being like, this is the

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Speaker 1: first time this is happening in like a you know,

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Speaker 1: a cable show or whatever, so they could get distinctly.

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Speaker 1: Remember this one scene where the older guy who's like

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Speaker 1: more knowledgeable, asks a series of gay questions to the

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Speaker 1: younger guy and it's literally like are you a top

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Speaker 1: or a bottom? And it's like and you are meant

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Speaker 1: to really take each of these in and be like, wow,

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Speaker 1: he's getting an education, like is he a top or

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Speaker 1: a bottom? Well, this is okay. So this is a

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Speaker 1: very good I think it's very germane to the subject program,

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Speaker 1: which is that there was a time when when being

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Speaker 1: straight involved a certain amount of ignorance about topping bottoming.

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Speaker 1: It was always Thanksgiving. This like this cliche of the

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Speaker 1: Thanksgiving dinner conversation like what do you even do? Now?

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Speaker 1: I feel that we are cursed with too much knowledge

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Speaker 1: of gay sex in the straight world. Thank you for

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Speaker 1: saying that. I'd say, even in like TV, the straight

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Speaker 1: writers take so much joy in like top or bottom

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Speaker 1: and it's like, no, it's not that like it's you

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Speaker 1: need to calm down. Something that really started that was

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Speaker 1: the popularization of the word twink, because that has I

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Speaker 1: would say, that is literally not even a gay term anymore. No,

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Speaker 1: it's not a gay term and it's not a gay aesthetic. Yes, no,

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Speaker 1: it's almost like I feel bad for gay twin like

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Speaker 1: I used to when I would see like when I

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Speaker 1: was the adolescent, I used to be they were like

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Speaker 1: the princess of the world. And now when I see

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Speaker 1: them on the street, I go, oh, your poor soul,

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Speaker 1: like limping around waiting to get a win august of

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Speaker 1: wind off their feet, and you go, what place is

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Speaker 1: there for you? Because we we need brooding straight twinks

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Speaker 1: who are experts at letting their hair flop over their eye,

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Speaker 1: and well what the only place for the twink is

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Speaker 1: being the one gay guy had a bachelor party. It's

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Speaker 1: it's actually really sad because their way now for a

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Speaker 1: twink to find community is with a group of sis women. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that is the only that is the only way left

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Speaker 1: for a twink to find community in the same age. No,

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Speaker 1: it is very sad, but yeah, they really do. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's very I think it's very confusing that the that

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Speaker 1: the the are like most handsome teen idols. Now, I

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Speaker 1: guess it's always more or less than the case. But

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Speaker 1: for so many people, for me to have met so

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Speaker 1: many sis straight women in their thirties, who's confess to

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Speaker 1: having a crush on challong me, it's very strange to

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Speaker 1: me because like I would be mortified to say such

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Speaker 1: a thing. Yeah, I'm I didn't enjoy the process of

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Speaker 1: being mortified like in a in a in a queer

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Speaker 1: masochistic way. But I don't think that secretaries and stuff

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Speaker 1: should be going around. But but this is well, but

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Speaker 1: I I don't want to I don't want to go

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Speaker 1: too deep on on on the T word Timothy. Well,

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Speaker 1: I just think that there's something about the algorithmic that

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Speaker 1: the something about Well, this is what I really wanted

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Speaker 1: to talk about in turn my straight topic, because it

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Speaker 1: is should I do, well, let's do what? Wait? Should

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Speaker 1: I hold? Let's hold because we're gonna do a second first.

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Speaker 1: But I want to respond to one thing you're saying

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Speaker 1: with the algorithmic stuff, and actually then that will eat

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Speaker 1: into the topic. But maybe I'll introduce it and then

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Speaker 1: we'll come back to it. But it's like people talk

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Speaker 1: so much about algorithmically, how we're all in echo chambers,

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Speaker 1: right and we only interact with people that are similar

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Speaker 1: to us exactly, etcetera. But in fact there's also the

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Speaker 1: opposite of that, where things leak out when you think

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Speaker 1: you are talking just to your own community, things leak

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Speaker 1: out and next thing you know, it's a slippery slope.

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Speaker 1: And Timothy shallow May is a straight sex symbol. Yes, yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: you know, huge leak. It's not it's not just this

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Speaker 1: bubble not And I think that's actually what that is.

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Speaker 1: And they're both two sides of the same coin. It's

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Speaker 1: like the bubbles are a problem and the leaks are

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Speaker 1: a problem, and the leaks are all in the wrong directions. Okay, wait,

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Speaker 1: so let's do our first segments, Sam, what do you think?

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Speaker 1: And then okay, one more thing about queer spoke. Yes,

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Speaker 1: the way that briant guy pronounced cock every single time,

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Speaker 1: like it would always be like, do you want to suck?

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Speaker 1: He hit those caves so hard? Oh what am I

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Speaker 1: just a fuck? Yeah yeah, just a fun and it

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Speaker 1: was just like you need to calm down. I could

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Speaker 1: not send him um and I just wanted to say

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Speaker 1: that but it was outrageous. Would always he not at

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Speaker 1: the people on that show had the even the ability

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Speaker 1: to say, like where it's like top or bottom, suck cock,

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Speaker 1: fuck cock, you know whatever, without without having this like

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Speaker 1: actually like elevated thing. They're presumably talking to one another

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Speaker 1: as members of a gay scene, Like, it's not gonna

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Speaker 1: shock me if I'm hooking up with someone and they

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Speaker 1: say cock, but they're acting as though they're they're acting

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Speaker 1: as though they're shocking their mom when they're talking to

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Speaker 1: a romantic partner. So it's like they're literally you're literally

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Speaker 1: in bed with someone naked, and you're like and you're like,

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Speaker 1: doesn't make you uncomfortable that I'm hard. It's like, no,

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Speaker 1: that's like part of the plan here. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't make you uncomfortable. It is this a problem

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Speaker 1: when I put my cock? Alright? Um, I literally want

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Speaker 1: to I literally want to get the segonde out of

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Speaker 1: the way so that I can so they can really

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Speaker 1: we can, just like so that we can be free

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Speaker 1: because you're it's just I'm already feeling so inspired by

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Speaker 1: everything you are, by everything you're. Okay, all right, So

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Speaker 1: our first segment is called straight shooters, And in the segment,

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Speaker 1: we ask our guests a series of rapid fire nonsensical

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Speaker 1: questions to gauge your familiarity with and complicity in straight culture.

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Speaker 1: So it's one thing or another thing, and it's straight things,

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Speaker 1: and you just have to pick one based on your

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Speaker 1: own instincts. And the one rule is that you can't

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Speaker 1: ask any follow up questions about how it works, otherwise

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Speaker 1: we will yell at you and kick you off the zoom.

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Speaker 1: Got it? Okay, So rapid fire answers that you just

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Speaker 1: have to answer, yeah, Sam, take it away, Okay, I'll

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Speaker 1: start free hugs or midpriced subs ok SUVs mid price

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Speaker 1: subs Okay, FATA six Flags or the Seven Deadly Sins,

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Speaker 1: Seven Deadly Sins. I guess okay, New York versus l

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Speaker 1: A or Freddie versus Jason, Freddie versus Jason. I guess

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Speaker 1: Missy Pile or Mr SOFTI Mr Softy Okay B twelve

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Speaker 1: or B twelve? Okay. Female celebrities lying about their age,

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Speaker 1: male celebrities lying about their height, or George W. Bush

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Speaker 1: lying about the existence of w M d s. That's

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Speaker 1: a hard one, but I will say male celebrities lying

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Speaker 1: with their right. Okay, um, burrito bowl or booty hole.

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Speaker 1: Oh really two sides of the same coin there, Yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: they're so related. Um I would say booty whole booty hole. Now,

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Speaker 1: that will be a fun thing in queer as Folk

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Speaker 1: if one of them was like, if one of them

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Speaker 1: was like, lick my booty hole, yeah, exactly, give me

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Speaker 1: voting down the working Famili's party ticket or working at

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Speaker 1: the car wash. I'm sorry, but working at the car wash.

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Speaker 1: I felt the Oh my god, redund Yes, I think

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Speaker 1: that was that was a sligh. And I say that earnestly,

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Speaker 1: not ironically. And I say it ironically, that was a sligh. Mama.

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Speaker 1: How did I score? Or is that did I just

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Speaker 1: violate the rule of the game? I would say, we

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Speaker 1: we rate it. We rate it on a scale of

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Speaker 1: zero to one thousand dubs, and I would say, I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna say nine hundred. And you know, I think why

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Speaker 1: I see the nine hundred is because I really felt

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Speaker 1: sort of a you were sort of at the beginning

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Speaker 1: of the game, You're like, I don't really know who

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Speaker 1: I am yet, Like it was sort of like, I

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Speaker 1: guess this was an underdocunarrative. I guess this. And then

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Speaker 1: by the end of the game, you were you were forceful,

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Speaker 1: you were commanding the room. Yeah, and you were saying

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Speaker 1: voting down the working families party. And I was like, well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know what, But you were also performing the you

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Speaker 1: could tell the wheels were turning. You weren't just like

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Speaker 1: saying something at random. You were considering it, pretending what

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Speaker 1: you were or not pretending. Uh, really kind of embodying

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Speaker 1: the idea that what you were doing had depth and

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Speaker 1: and like and that you were really considering two different

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Speaker 1: options and then being like, and now the correct answer

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Speaker 1: is B. And I'm a very sincere person. Yeah, And

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Speaker 1: I just want you know, a lot of people I

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Speaker 1: don't like to, you know, sort of talk down to

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Speaker 1: our previous guests, but I will say a lot of

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Speaker 1: our previous guests they come in, they say, oh, i'll

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Speaker 1: play this game, like just just eight stupid questions. Oh,

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Speaker 1: I'm having fun. And what you did when you playing

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Speaker 1: this game, as you told a story and you gave

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Speaker 1: us character and you gave us an arc. And I

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Speaker 1: think that is so important. And yeah, because what we

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Speaker 1: all are our storytellers. Well, it's the only way you

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Speaker 1: can get on this podcast. We need Without them, we

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Speaker 1: need stories to live. We need stories. We would literally

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Speaker 1: die die would hear it, we would be extinct. You

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Speaker 1: know what? You know what Sam told me the other day,

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Speaker 1: and he made this up. We tell ourselves stories in

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Speaker 1: order to live. Exactly well, I said, I said, I said,

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Speaker 1: did you read that summer? He said, no, we're just

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Speaker 1: knocking at we're having a conversation. It's just something that

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Speaker 1: I think. It's one of my opinions is that we

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Speaker 1: sell stories in order to live. You don't have to agree. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: like I said, that's actually fine if you disagree, but

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Speaker 1: it is something that I've invented. Yeah, you were like,

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Speaker 1: I don't it's like he was like, I don't feel

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Speaker 1: strongly about it. It's not. It's not like, oh, I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna be mad at you if you disagree. I'm just like,

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Speaker 1: in my opinion, we tell ourselves stories in order to live.

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Speaker 1: That's incredible. I've never I've never thought it through in

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Speaker 1: exactly that way. Most people, when you hear a phrase

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Speaker 1: like that, your first inclination is absolutely to just agree

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Speaker 1: with that and not to go what, how, why is that?

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Speaker 1: Why do you think that's true? Well? Yeah, there's almost like,

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Speaker 1: you know, has there been a study someone stopped telling

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Speaker 1: stories and died? You know, I don't know, not that

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Speaker 1: I've heard of. You know, an answer is no. Ultimately,

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Speaker 1: like I hate to bring science into it. Yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: here's my story. It's a sci fi dystopian film. It's

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Speaker 1: a film. It's big budget. Someone at just creamed their pants. Okay. Oh,

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Speaker 1: it's written by a queer creators. It's written by a

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Speaker 1: freeer creator. It's by a queer creator. It's it's it's yes,

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Speaker 1: it's written by a creator's written by a creator who

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Speaker 1: is creppy to be queer. It's greater happens to be queer.

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Speaker 1: Let's put let's put him on the panel. Let's put

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Speaker 1: him on the panel. Let's put him south by Southwest.

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Speaker 1: We're flying him out. Okay, and it's a world where

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Speaker 1: they don't tell stories. Here we go, wow, happens what

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Speaker 1: happens in that world? Well, it's still really in the

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Speaker 1: development phases. Um, but it sounds like no second act. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you can kind of see the trailer and nothing else. Yeah, exactly,

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Speaker 1: that's really you know what we're working. We have some

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Speaker 1: really fun ideas for the soundtrack and we have, we

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Speaker 1: have a really great sound designer working on it, a

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Speaker 1: great costume designer. We're thinking Anya Taylor Joy. But ugly

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Speaker 1: that's great. Look, well, I wonder if we could get

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Speaker 1: Annie Taylor Joy to just ugly up. Yeah, I'm sure.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure. And it's like, you know what we're saying

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Speaker 1: that's sort of mocking them. But I do think movies

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Speaker 1: are just sort of colors and sounds. So if it

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Speaker 1: looks good and literally literally I've never seen a good one. No,

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Speaker 1: I'm still waiting to see a good movie. Yeah, still

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Speaker 1: waiting to see that. But colors, it's got sounds. We're

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Speaker 1: telling we watch, we watch colors that sounds in order

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Speaker 1: to live. Yeah, yeah, there's a kind of you know,

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Speaker 1: at some point you're like, yeah, we kind of just

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Speaker 1: like get by in order to live, you know, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we'll we'll take what we're offered. You know, no one's happy. Okay,

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Speaker 1: hold on, hold on, just a side side question. What

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Speaker 1: is are people like mad? At day four? Now? I

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Speaker 1: think I think I feel like, what's sort of like

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Speaker 1: like now it's like a punchline half half punchline brand,

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Speaker 1: but it's also still prestige, but inevitably so inevitably so

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Speaker 1: anything everything. I mean, it's like, of course, if something's

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Speaker 1: gonna have these like highly stylized, very critically acclaimed, like

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Speaker 1: very up their own ass, whatever you can, you know,

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Speaker 1: you can enjoy some of the movies and not others

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Speaker 1: and still kind of make fun of it as a concept. Okay,

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Speaker 1: nobody's like that. But also I think it's that they've

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Speaker 1: it's a little bit like, um, any successful active branding

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Speaker 1: means limiting your identity to something that could be easily mocked. Right,

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Speaker 1: that's exactly it. So nobody nobody is like, oh great

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Speaker 1: another searchlight. Uh, Indy, that's so true. Yeah, they're like,

422
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:41,640
Speaker 1: but made it elected to like really have an imprint. Well,

423
00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:44,639
Speaker 1: it's the double edged sword of like name recognition and

424
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:49,359
Speaker 1: brand refinement is like you say twenty four immediately everyone

425
00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:52,399
Speaker 1: knows what you're talking about, and then immediately, uh, you know,

426
00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:58,240
Speaker 1: a few gay guys tweet about it, the sparrages the canaries,

427
00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:03,680
Speaker 1: and wow, I love that. Okay, I'm glad I asked

428
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:06,400
Speaker 1: that question because it's sort of been on my mind. Yeah,

429
00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:08,080
Speaker 1: you know, I'm trying to think of other things for

430
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:12,960
Speaker 1: for which that has happened, Like I mean something that

431
00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:16,160
Speaker 1: was prestige and then I mean, you know what, actually

432
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:19,320
Speaker 1: here's one that head. I know you have strong opinions

433
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:24,280
Speaker 1: on York. Um, yes, I do have strong opinions about York,

434
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:30,040
Speaker 1: but like my opinions have never really fluctuated between like

435
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:34,639
Speaker 1: mild distaste and full, um yeah, outright dislike like I

436
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:38,240
Speaker 1: I I but I I know that this makes me

437
00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:44,880
Speaker 1: a Brian in my community might chosen family of Wherever Bolynay,

438
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:50,200
Speaker 1: but I I'm just not. Um, I think that there

439
00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:53,000
Speaker 1: actually are some similarities between York and A twenty four.

440
00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:56,280
Speaker 1: That there's always gonna be some sort of fucking stupid outfit.

441
00:25:56,680 --> 00:26:00,080
Speaker 1: So it's gonna be gurgling mouth wash and she's to

442
00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:03,359
Speaker 1: be making instruments out of bullshit, and like there's always

443
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:06,119
Speaker 1: something where I'm like, what, it's not amazing to me

444
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:09,119
Speaker 1: that you like played an erector set, like you know,

445
00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:12,440
Speaker 1: with a MIDI remote, with like a WE remote. It's

446
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:15,320
Speaker 1: just like, look, I whipped the Wei remote around and

447
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:19,760
Speaker 1: it plays the organ, yeah, And it's like, well, I don't.

448
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:24,080
Speaker 1: That feels like a stunt to me, And I unfortunately

449
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:27,200
Speaker 1: have emotional needs for music that are not being met

450
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:29,879
Speaker 1: Bright York. You know, and I and and and let

451
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:31,680
Speaker 1: me ask you this. And I say that I say

452
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:34,399
Speaker 1: this as a as a York fan, but I I

453
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:36,879
Speaker 1: don't feel strongly enough to you know, get into it.

454
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:40,520
Speaker 1: But but let me ask you this, you know, would

455
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:42,920
Speaker 1: would you say? And I think for me this is

456
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:44,280
Speaker 1: a recurring thing when I think of why I don't

457
00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:47,560
Speaker 1: like certain things, that the some of the like that

458
00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:51,200
Speaker 1: the parts don't app don't add up to more than

459
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:54,359
Speaker 1: the something. Oh my god, why am I do you

460
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:58,720
Speaker 1: know what? I'm that the some of them? Oh my god?

461
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:03,640
Speaker 1: Oh that the some of the parts okay, don't add

462
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:08,640
Speaker 1: out to the sum, don't add up. That the whole

463
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:13,600
Speaker 1: is less. Yes, that is that you feel like the

464
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 1: whole oh my god. Wow, that you feel like the

465
00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:18,040
Speaker 1: whole is less than the sum of the parts. Like

466
00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:20,680
Speaker 1: you're like she's doing all these things, are all these things,

467
00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:24,159
Speaker 1: And yes, it's not it's not adding up to more

468
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:26,360
Speaker 1: than some of the parts. It's actually it's not. It's

469
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:28,879
Speaker 1: just a sum of parts. For me, that is what

470
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:31,720
Speaker 1: it feels like. It feels like every time it comes

471
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:34,000
Speaker 1: out with the new project, there's like a bag of

472
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:37,520
Speaker 1: of of items of sort of bullet points about why

473
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 1: it's remarkable, and then when you you put them all together,

474
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 1: the thing is this is also I don't want to

475
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:46,119
Speaker 1: make listen. I want only to be loved by the

476
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:50,040
Speaker 1: maximum number of people will anyone. But I'm also getting

477
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:54,240
Speaker 1: this feeling a little bit with uh with Renaissance Volume one,

478
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:57,560
Speaker 1: that the that the I won't even name the artist,

479
00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:01,920
Speaker 1: but like the the buying ding agent of like high

480
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:05,480
Speaker 1: tech production is such that like people can really go

481
00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:11,520
Speaker 1: to market with a jumble of items that are adhere

482
00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:15,720
Speaker 1: together through like mixing production and it's not going to

483
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:18,520
Speaker 1: crumble on impact. But that doesn't mean that it necessarily

484
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:23,359
Speaker 1: coheres in my opinion and like so, but but I

485
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:26,280
Speaker 1: have to say that, like, I'm sure that York is

486
00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:29,040
Speaker 1: a very nice person. I know she really loves gay people.

487
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:35,119
Speaker 1: Uh and uh, but it's just I don't like Here's

488
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:37,520
Speaker 1: I'll say one more final thing. I'm also not a

489
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:41,520
Speaker 1: fan of like ani is ninn. I don't like the

490
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:47,600
Speaker 1: attempt to mystify organic experience by going my organs, my

491
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:52,560
Speaker 1: my like. I don't like it. I would rather she

492
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:54,720
Speaker 1: said my guts, my guts, but she would never say

493
00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:56,680
Speaker 1: my guts. Do you know what it is? She's like

494
00:28:56,800 --> 00:29:01,000
Speaker 1: Brian Kinney. It is it, it's it's it's some it's

495
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:09,120
Speaker 1: I love these beautiful humans. Yeah, it's she's doing elevated

496
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:11,720
Speaker 1: I love these beautiful humans floating on a rock in space.

497
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:16,840
Speaker 1: That's very well said, George. You know, and again I'm

498
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:18,720
Speaker 1: saying this with nothing but love. But I can, I

499
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:22,080
Speaker 1: can step outside my own toxic fandom and recognize that

500
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:26,600
Speaker 1: you want to correct in your assessment. Well, and it's

501
00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:30,000
Speaker 1: and it's also you know what else it's doing. It's like, uh,

502
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:32,760
Speaker 1: this kind of like I guess I have a human

503
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:38,720
Speaker 1: body that's so your comic sweet spot. I just have

504
00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:45,240
Speaker 1: to say the invitation of that in particular affect. But

505
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:48,280
Speaker 1: it is, uh no, it is, it is that. But

506
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:52,080
Speaker 1: it is also exotic, you know, of course. I mean

507
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:56,240
Speaker 1: she's Icelandic and that's something no one can take away

508
00:29:56,280 --> 00:30:03,440
Speaker 1: from her. If there's one thing we can say about

509
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:05,560
Speaker 1: York is that it she is from the country Iceland.

510
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 1: While we're on the New York topic, one more thing

511
00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:17,200
Speaker 1: is that another bad thing is comedians doing B York as.

512
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:19,120
Speaker 1: And we just sort of talked about this, but they

513
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:23,160
Speaker 1: interpret B York simply as like what if I'm weird?

514
00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:26,040
Speaker 1: What if I'm crazy, and it's like, no, there is

515
00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:29,720
Speaker 1: a specificity and just maybe because you don't listen, like

516
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:32,240
Speaker 1: that's fine, but maybe you don't do someone you don't

517
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:34,320
Speaker 1: listen to just because they have a weird voice, and

518
00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:37,040
Speaker 1: that's a pet peep of mine. People do that, people

519
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:38,480
Speaker 1: do that with all the people do that with like

520
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:41,280
Speaker 1: Joanna and you. Some people do the Fiona Apple. It's like,

521
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 1: it's it. Actually you think you're sounding smart because you're

522
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:49,480
Speaker 1: commenting on something, and in fact you're actually showing the

523
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:55,000
Speaker 1: shallowness of your knowledge by your by your absolutely flop

524
00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 1: of an impression. Yeah, because some people can do it

525
00:30:57,680 --> 00:30:59,720
Speaker 1: really well, and you know that that it comes from

526
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:04,360
Speaker 1: a deep knowledge of York. They have something to grip onto.

527
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:08,080
Speaker 1: It's not a comic. It's not a comedic elevation to say,

528
00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:11,840
Speaker 1: is something that's weird that it is weird? Yes, yes,

529
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 1: this is like what popular girls do. Have somebody with glasses.

530
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:19,040
Speaker 1: I just want to say, this is something that actually

531
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 1: I would I would say a similar thing to that is,

532
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 1: it's not interesting to say something is funny as though

533
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:29,440
Speaker 1: it's unintentionally funny when it's trying to be funny. So

534
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:31,480
Speaker 1: you will often see let's say you'll see like a

535
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:35,160
Speaker 1: page six headline that is so clearly trying to be cheeky.

536
00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:39,400
Speaker 1: It's so clearly like you know, Ben Affleck cries at

537
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:42,960
Speaker 1: a dunkin donuts amid Jen Garner starring in a show

538
00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:45,840
Speaker 1: or whatever. It's like they know what they're doing. Yes

539
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:48,480
Speaker 1: to them, be like, wow, journalism is dying. It's like no,

540
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:54,440
Speaker 1: comedy is thriving. Yes, and and in a weird way,

541
00:31:54,560 --> 00:32:00,480
Speaker 1: journalism and comedy are are collaborative, yes, finally, productively finally

542
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:04,920
Speaker 1: and then and you're so right, And it is painful

543
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:08,080
Speaker 1: because the real dupes are the people who are like, um,

544
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:10,400
Speaker 1: you're not going to believe what I found today. This

545
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:15,600
Speaker 1: amusing malapropism. It's like, no, they they did that because

546
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:20,760
Speaker 1: they know how the internet works. Right. It's just well,

547
00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:23,280
Speaker 1: that's going our takedown of the day. Well we should

548
00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:25,840
Speaker 1: get we should get a new theme song for a

549
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 1: brand new segment that everyone loves. Yeah, it's like flop

550
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:46,920
Speaker 1: flop die die, Um, like topic, yeah, data. Why don't

551
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:49,560
Speaker 1: you introduce the topic and then just say like a

552
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:53,200
Speaker 1: little bit about what you think makes it straight? Okay,

553
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:54,960
Speaker 1: So this is what I was. So the topic is

554
00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:59,240
Speaker 1: something straight and my cheek yep, my thing was being

555
00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:01,920
Speaker 1: gay with your friends. Yeah, that being gay with your

556
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:04,560
Speaker 1: friends is the straightest thing right now in the culture. Now,

557
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:07,680
Speaker 1: maybe this is a little bit dated, but because I'm

558
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:11,240
Speaker 1: not advanced enough for TikTok, but I do. I am

559
00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:14,920
Speaker 1: an avid consumer of reels real, well, we all are,

560
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:19,560
Speaker 1: non consensually. I made a truly every time it's still real.

561
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:21,480
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm getting Spain. It's actually a jump

562
00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:23,800
Speaker 1: scare every time you try to go into Instagram, which

563
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 1: which by the way, already is bad. It's like the

564
00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:28,280
Speaker 1: lowest form of culture. I think we can all agree.

565
00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:30,960
Speaker 1: You go there wanting to see a photo of someone

566
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:33,560
Speaker 1: you hate on Fire Island, and suddenly it's someone doing

567
00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:37,120
Speaker 1: a tutorial with a dance. Yes, yes, with a dance,

568
00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:39,920
Speaker 1: and like, um, this has actually I don't know if

569
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:43,920
Speaker 1: anybody Okay, well I'll devate briefly. Been all return but

570
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:47,760
Speaker 1: like people are trying to shove the reels vibe like everywhere.

571
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:50,560
Speaker 1: I have a like many people. I mean, I'm still

572
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:53,720
Speaker 1: grieving the loss of Tumbler for gay pornography and also

573
00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:57,800
Speaker 1: other forms of pornography. Um as a head of sexual woman,

574
00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:01,880
Speaker 1: but I have a little Twitter where I now you

575
00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:05,040
Speaker 1: go and you follow people who are being totally depraved

576
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:10,000
Speaker 1: and degrading themselves. And now it's been overnight, it's suddenly

577
00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:13,919
Speaker 1: populated by um like a monkey doing a funny dance

578
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:16,560
Speaker 1: with a lollipop, where like people going down water slides

579
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:20,759
Speaker 1: like they're just to give reels and it's insane. You're like,

580
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:23,719
Speaker 1: you're like, get this dirt out of my face. I'm

581
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:26,960
Speaker 1: trying to watch someone get fisted, trying to watch people

582
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:31,440
Speaker 1: get fist a double fisted. Here, here's like a family

583
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:35,120
Speaker 1: on vacation. It's very, very diffident. The thing that I've

584
00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:39,120
Speaker 1: noticed about reels is that I think that obviously the

585
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:43,640
Speaker 1: front facing camera encourages amongst straight men a certain kind

586
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:49,040
Speaker 1: of beauty boy culture, like of of like smoldering, sort

587
00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:53,080
Speaker 1: of staring into their own eyes for whatever reason. And

588
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:56,440
Speaker 1: this is a little bit like that. It's no no

589
00:34:56,600 --> 00:35:01,839
Speaker 1: surprise to me that lip sinking like rimming, rimming or whatever.

590
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:05,240
Speaker 1: I don't know how vulgar this part, no, no, no, okay,

591
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:07,920
Speaker 1: but like like that this is one of another one

592
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:10,600
Speaker 1: of these leak things that leaked out of the gay

593
00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:13,839
Speaker 1: bubble and enter the straight culture. Because drag the reason

594
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 1: drag queen's lip sync is because it's really too much

595
00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:18,600
Speaker 1: to ask for a drag queen to be both good

596
00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:21,000
Speaker 1: at makeup and pretty and drag and have some sort

597
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:23,560
Speaker 1: of other skill. So there needs to be an ara

598
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:26,560
Speaker 1: zat's skill that will allow them to justify being on

599
00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:29,759
Speaker 1: stage for five six minutes and collecting dollar bills. And

600
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:31,560
Speaker 1: the easiest thing would be for them to move their

601
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:34,160
Speaker 1: mouth lips to songs that everybody already knows. So this

602
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 1: is a non skill skill. I don't believe that it's

603
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:41,320
Speaker 1: possible to like, actually really do it well. And and

604
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:47,919
Speaker 1: now that is such an asset because it allows people

605
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:50,520
Speaker 1: who don't even have the skills of drag, they just

606
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:53,880
Speaker 1: have a mild sort of beauty to them, to have

607
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:57,120
Speaker 1: something to do on camera for fifteen or thirty seconds,

608
00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:00,120
Speaker 1: and no wonder it's taken off that lip sync and

609
00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:02,520
Speaker 1: the stupid dancing. But the thing that I find so

610
00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:05,719
Speaker 1: shocking about it is that this is now being done

611
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:10,080
Speaker 1: by groups of straight men. Because you would have to

612
00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:13,759
Speaker 1: be really a very attractive man to get an eye

613
00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:16,839
Speaker 1: to linger on you for longer than takes the sum

614
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:20,600
Speaker 1: to swipe. But if you're four or five middling attractive

615
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:23,879
Speaker 1: men with one or two of you being really stand out.

616
00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:26,959
Speaker 1: It's like a boy band ethos. But okay, and here's

617
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:29,759
Speaker 1: my final point. Here's my final point. At least in

618
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:33,120
Speaker 1: the era of the boy band, right, people were on television.

619
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:40,000
Speaker 1: I'm doing this on zoom like this director fingers into

620
00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:43,200
Speaker 1: a rectangle. Yeah, in a rectangle so wide, so you

621
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:46,480
Speaker 1: could you have a room on stage. But the vertical video,

622
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:52,359
Speaker 1: if you have five male friends and video together, they

623
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:55,200
Speaker 1: have to stand very very close together, to the point

624
00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:58,880
Speaker 1: where they are touching and sniffing, and just like they

625
00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:01,839
Speaker 1: have their head, they have their noses buried in each

626
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:05,120
Speaker 1: other's hair, like and it's deeply, deeply gay, and it

627
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:09,040
Speaker 1: seems to be the most their most their favorite activity.

628
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:14,839
Speaker 1: You are literally saying the medium is the message. Yes,

629
00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:22,000
Speaker 1: but I think I do literally the screen going from

630
00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:27,319
Speaker 1: horizontal to vertical has forced homoroticism on men. Yes, they

631
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:31,680
Speaker 1: have to stand, they have to stand together together. Yeah,

632
00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:34,520
Speaker 1: and and they have to do all of these. They

633
00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:38,040
Speaker 1: have to lip sync and dance right on top of

634
00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:43,719
Speaker 1: each other. I really love this. I first of all,

635
00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:45,759
Speaker 1: I think the idea of leaks as we're talking, like

636
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:48,400
Speaker 1: the like the lip syncing is a leak. Rimming as

637
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:50,520
Speaker 1: a leak, as you said, the idea of a twink

638
00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:54,279
Speaker 1: is a leak. Like I think that is such a productive, um,

639
00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 1: you know concept, you know, just like theoretical concepts. Yeah,

640
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:03,040
Speaker 1: spot the leak. Yeah, spot the leak. And it's exactly

641
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:04,719
Speaker 1: what you're talking about with the topic of being gay

642
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:07,520
Speaker 1: with your friends. It's or rather the old way. It's

643
00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:09,640
Speaker 1: like you know you used to hear when you were

644
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:11,719
Speaker 1: you know, it's like boys at camp would like jerk

645
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:15,160
Speaker 1: off together. But that's what I thought, yeah would be

646
00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:18,680
Speaker 1: And it's almost like, no, I think this is great. Yeah,

647
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:28,000
Speaker 1: I mean both yes, absolutely, and really I don't think gaping.

648
00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:32,879
Speaker 1: I don't think uh like as a marked gay like kid,

649
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:36,799
Speaker 1: nobody wanted to jack off with me at the it's

650
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:41,799
Speaker 1: pretty exclusive but like the but this is even worse

651
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:43,719
Speaker 1: because this I really feel as gay in the sense

652
00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:48,440
Speaker 1: of being both um sort of lame and uh it

653
00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:55,040
Speaker 1: in both terms yeaty, like it's it's homorotic and it's

654
00:38:55,080 --> 00:39:00,239
Speaker 1: like lame y. Yeah, I like, I'm very cure is

655
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:04,359
Speaker 1: what like high school kids think of these people doing

656
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:07,360
Speaker 1: this because I can't like they're not stupid either, like

657
00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:09,960
Speaker 1: plenty is like, I bet you hate it, Like right, like,

658
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:11,960
Speaker 1: what do you think it's cool? I really cannot tell.

659
00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:14,160
Speaker 1: Can I tell you something? I genuinely because my sister,

660
00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:16,279
Speaker 1: my youngest sister. I have two sister. My youngest sister

661
00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:21,600
Speaker 1: is very young, she's like twenty two, and literally it

662
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:26,440
Speaker 1: is the case that it's cooler to be somewhat queer adjacent.

663
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:28,440
Speaker 1: Like she is a straight, she's a I'm not saying

664
00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:30,839
Speaker 1: about it hurt she identifies a straight, but she will

665
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:33,719
Speaker 1: like be dating a guy and be like he's so cool.

666
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:36,000
Speaker 1: He's kind of queer, Like he's so hot, he's like

667
00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:38,959
Speaker 1: kind of queer, and he like knows a lot about

668
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:41,560
Speaker 1: the queer community, so we can like do queer stuff together.

669
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:46,160
Speaker 1: That's so, that's such a that's so, that's such a waste.

670
00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:50,920
Speaker 1: It's to me, that's such a tragedy. I don't mean

671
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:54,279
Speaker 1: it whatever, It's okay, I just what we're what do

672
00:39:54,320 --> 00:40:00,680
Speaker 1: you think we're losing something with traditional masculinity dying? Yeah, yes,

673
00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:06,520
Speaker 1: I think that there I think basically, not to get

674
00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:09,040
Speaker 1: too sincere about it, but I do think that it's

675
00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:17,040
Speaker 1: a shame any time a straight man knows exactly how

676
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:22,880
Speaker 1: attractive he is. Yeah. I think ideally straight men should

677
00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:25,320
Speaker 1: be people who are not interested in any form of

678
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:29,480
Speaker 1: male attractiveness, including their own. But we are also seeing

679
00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:34,359
Speaker 1: I think, in addition to lip sinking dancing, we're also

680
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:38,680
Speaker 1: seeing a huge proliferation of weird fitness sigma male bullshit

681
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:42,759
Speaker 1: of like men just like admiring themselves in a way

682
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:45,759
Speaker 1: that is not even erotic enough to be sexual. But

683
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:50,000
Speaker 1: it is. But it is disappointing. Again, Like it's like

684
00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:54,600
Speaker 1: this is so gay, Like this is so gay, this

685
00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:58,680
Speaker 1: is so like Billy bud or whatever. But like, yeah,

686
00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:01,279
Speaker 1: a man, like a man was like on a sailboat,

687
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:04,200
Speaker 1: like with a bunch of other friends, like and friends

688
00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:12,600
Speaker 1: crewmates what are they called called co workers? Yeah, they're

689
00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:15,759
Speaker 1: pulling ropes, are doing whatever there, you know, and they

690
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:19,000
Speaker 1: build up muscle and they hose each other down, right,

691
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:25,720
Speaker 1: because ideally all of those they're too busy, um doing

692
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:29,200
Speaker 1: doing something else to notice how attractive they become. But

693
00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:33,440
Speaker 1: that's not true. That is that is I now I'm

694
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:36,719
Speaker 1: getting what you're It's like they are doing it. No, no, no,

695
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:41,320
Speaker 1: I it's like really clicking. It's like they are unaware

696
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:43,839
Speaker 1: of the fact that they are quite literally working out

697
00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:48,080
Speaker 1: to become hotter. Yes, yes, that they're like making progress

698
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:52,560
Speaker 1: on their fitness journey. Yeah, yeah, exactly, but yeah, they

699
00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:54,680
Speaker 1: would never post that. They would never post the progress

700
00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:57,759
Speaker 1: pick well, and just just to take that even further,

701
00:41:57,960 --> 00:41:59,920
Speaker 1: I do think these men, after they've post each other

702
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:04,319
Speaker 1: down would probably have some sort of maybe mutual masturbation,

703
00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:08,000
Speaker 1: maybe they suck each other off. And I and I

704
00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:09,880
Speaker 1: do think that it would be like well this, it

705
00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:13,160
Speaker 1: wouldn't be homo, it would be it would be sort

706
00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:16,399
Speaker 1: of um practical, if you know what I mean. Absolutely,

707
00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:18,920
Speaker 1: and I that's the practicality that I that I lament.

708
00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:23,040
Speaker 1: I I lament it because I don't actually see queerness

709
00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:28,000
Speaker 1: and practicality as compatible. I feel like, maybe that's a

710
00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:29,759
Speaker 1: bold claim. I know, I haven't really thought it through,

711
00:42:30,239 --> 00:42:34,520
Speaker 1: but all of these queer things are well, they're very

712
00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:37,440
Speaker 1: concerned with affects. I think queerness and affect is are

713
00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:41,680
Speaker 1: very linked. Beauty. Yeah, I don't think that beauty isn't

714
00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:45,839
Speaker 1: necessarily a practical concern. And then, um, in a weird way,

715
00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:49,080
Speaker 1: the gratification element of queerness I think is sort of

716
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:52,800
Speaker 1: add odds a little bit with like, again, my idealizing

717
00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:56,239
Speaker 1: totally fag brained idea of what it's like to work

718
00:42:56,280 --> 00:42:59,680
Speaker 1: on a boat. So like, I totally admitting that I

719
00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:02,160
Speaker 1: this is not based on Yeah, you're saying, there's no

720
00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:07,120
Speaker 1: on the boat, in this idealized heterosexual boat on the boat,

721
00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:11,960
Speaker 1: there are no stolen glances and you know, there's none

722
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:15,440
Speaker 1: of that like it's like and in fact not to

723
00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:20,080
Speaker 1: you know, almost reliteralize a metaphor. But the boat also

724
00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:22,880
Speaker 1: doesn't have leaks that go. It's like what happens on

725
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:25,040
Speaker 1: the boat stays on the boat, and what happens in

726
00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:29,840
Speaker 1: the queerest folks set stays on the queerest. Yes, it stays.

727
00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:32,400
Speaker 1: There's no leaks, and there's no like, there's no like,

728
00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:38,360
Speaker 1: there's no like girl around to indoubt you with for

729
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:42,600
Speaker 1: like did you see that like the way that Jack

730
00:43:42,719 --> 00:43:48,520
Speaker 1: like had a small drink glance at Devon Devon? They

731
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:53,720
Speaker 1: all have names like Spiler. Do you see what Skyler

732
00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:57,080
Speaker 1: said to Flayton on the boat over there on the

733
00:43:57,360 --> 00:44:00,600
Speaker 1: port side of the boat. But I think that's my

734
00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:02,719
Speaker 1: final point because I don't want to be pedants here,

735
00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:07,120
Speaker 1: but just that they that the the the sailors probably

736
00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:11,880
Speaker 1: would have smolder stolen glances and and like enjoy but whatever,

737
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:15,840
Speaker 1: the whatever intimacies, but they wouldn't be infused with me.

738
00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:20,040
Speaker 1: They wouldn't go, I'm doing a queer thing. Yes, I'm

739
00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:25,799
Speaker 1: doing a queer thing. I'm a queer sailor, aqueer sailor. Yeah. Yeah,

740
00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:30,719
Speaker 1: those pockets neither with a gay person. Yeah, neither gay

741
00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:33,719
Speaker 1: person are not walking around going I just I just

742
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:37,000
Speaker 1: have something a little queer too. I got my queer

743
00:44:37,239 --> 00:44:42,960
Speaker 1: female friends are gonna love it. I mean, is there

744
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:47,600
Speaker 1: a way to retain any authenticity and human behavior when

745
00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:51,640
Speaker 1: you put labels on things like literally, No, it's like

746
00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:54,759
Speaker 1: once you start identifying things as queer, it's over. You

747
00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:56,920
Speaker 1: have no idea what your motivations are, you have no

748
00:44:57,000 --> 00:44:59,399
Speaker 1: idea what you're doing, and you have no idea why

749
00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:04,000
Speaker 1: you're doing it. Which is really funny coming from our podcast,

750
00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:09,120
Speaker 1: which is to label things that straight. Well, I think

751
00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:12,440
Speaker 1: I I would argue that that they that like, just

752
00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:15,160
Speaker 1: as we were saying with the words sleigh earlier, that

753
00:45:15,320 --> 00:45:18,000
Speaker 1: like sleigh can come almost full circle now to actually

754
00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:23,000
Speaker 1: be a sincere compliment, but only by deploying it ironically.

755
00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:28,759
Speaker 1: It's like it's and by labeling things ironically for the

756
00:45:28,760 --> 00:45:34,759
Speaker 1: propos of satire, you're almost gonna approach sincerity. It's like

757
00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:39,479
Speaker 1: something you know, you see something very clearly bad, something

758
00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:41,359
Speaker 1: someone would make fun of, and you can be like okay,

759
00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:43,800
Speaker 1: but it's kind of a sleigh though, and it's like

760
00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:50,160
Speaker 1: yeah it is yeah, like I I feel that, Yeah,

761
00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:55,120
Speaker 1: it's a sincere compliment. Um I was thinking about. Okay,

762
00:45:55,280 --> 00:46:00,879
Speaker 1: so like men seeing their own beauty. Yeah, men, well

763
00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:08,080
Speaker 1: let's start there, men seeing their own beauty and sort

764
00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:12,600
Speaker 1: of like there's like I do think because part of

765
00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:14,480
Speaker 1: me wants to be like, well, it's not like just

766
00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:18,719
Speaker 1: to just to be basic liberal, um, just to be

767
00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:21,880
Speaker 1: sort of it's nice that men feel comfortable expressing themselves

768
00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:23,719
Speaker 1: a little bit more. But then on the other hand,

769
00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:26,880
Speaker 1: I do think it's it's um bipartisanly toxic where it

770
00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:30,399
Speaker 1: is also the right side, like Republican men are also

771
00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:33,279
Speaker 1: seeing themselves being needing to be beautiful in this way

772
00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:36,360
Speaker 1: that is like so horrific, and that's why, like the

773
00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:41,399
Speaker 1: supplement industry is thriving on all right podcasts. I guess

774
00:46:41,480 --> 00:46:44,000
Speaker 1: they still sort of know homeowit by talking more about

775
00:46:44,040 --> 00:46:46,960
Speaker 1: like virility and manlihood. But it is just like I

776
00:46:47,080 --> 00:46:50,239
Speaker 1: want to be muscular. Yes, and and the and the

777
00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:53,719
Speaker 1: people telling you that the sort of elk bone supplement

778
00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:56,040
Speaker 1: or whatever the funk it is, like, are all very

779
00:46:56,600 --> 00:47:03,080
Speaker 1: spectacularly attractive. Yeah, man, not not the the not Alex Jones,

780
00:47:04,080 --> 00:47:07,719
Speaker 1: not the Alex Jones, but like the the fit fluencers

781
00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:11,120
Speaker 1: and the Yeah, but also virility. It's like, well do

782
00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:14,480
Speaker 1: you mean fertility earth mother? You know, it's like it

783
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:18,680
Speaker 1: almost comes all the way around. Yeah, and you're like,

784
00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:22,520
Speaker 1: I wish I was pregnant, you know, like it's yeah, yes,

785
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:25,040
Speaker 1: you're still concerned with your own potency that you that

786
00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:28,000
Speaker 1: it's it's a wish to become pregnant. It's a wish

787
00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:30,600
Speaker 1: to participate in pregnancy, which is a wish to become pregnant,

788
00:47:31,120 --> 00:47:38,600
Speaker 1: which is which is coded very womanly female, yes quoted females.

789
00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:43,040
Speaker 1: But I do think it's crazy. I do think it's well,

790
00:47:43,120 --> 00:47:45,000
Speaker 1: but this is it's not just the medium, is the message.

791
00:47:45,239 --> 00:47:47,520
Speaker 1: It's like this is so basic, but it's just like, Okay,

792
00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:50,680
Speaker 1: we really found a new sort of way to sell things.

793
00:47:51,239 --> 00:47:52,960
Speaker 1: And now we said it like they found a way

794
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:57,480
Speaker 1: to sell beauty products to men. But yeah, yeah, and

795
00:47:57,840 --> 00:48:02,360
Speaker 1: that's half the world. So it's obvious business is booming. Yeah,

796
00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:05,480
Speaker 1: that's true. That's a very good point. And then are

797
00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:13,880
Speaker 1: drinking collagen. Yeah. Well, now I'm like, fuck, it sucks. Okay.

798
00:48:14,200 --> 00:48:16,800
Speaker 1: One thing that sucks is like maybe okay, I'm just

799
00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:19,240
Speaker 1: gonna say it and we'll see how dumb it sounds.

800
00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:21,960
Speaker 1: Is that it is sort of like whenever we get

801
00:48:22,040 --> 00:48:25,120
Speaker 1: to anything real, like whenever you're talking about issues, and

802
00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:27,800
Speaker 1: it is just sort of like, well like when the

803
00:48:27,880 --> 00:48:31,000
Speaker 1: answer is always like, well, capitalism, it's like that sounds

804
00:48:31,040 --> 00:48:33,080
Speaker 1: like a bad point, but it is always a good

805
00:48:33,160 --> 00:48:36,879
Speaker 1: point and probably the correct point. And it's like, um,

806
00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:40,120
Speaker 1: I don't know how to I feel like it ends.

807
00:48:40,440 --> 00:48:43,200
Speaker 1: It always ends there, and it's like okay, well, it's

808
00:48:43,239 --> 00:48:44,920
Speaker 1: like I want to have like sort of a silly

809
00:48:45,239 --> 00:48:49,040
Speaker 1: like I sort of want like a more inventive problem. Sam, Sam,

810
00:48:49,120 --> 00:48:51,719
Speaker 1: I think you want to you wanna bu York in

811
00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:55,680
Speaker 1: the same way that York exoticizes nature or like romanticizes nature.

812
00:48:55,680 --> 00:48:57,400
Speaker 1: You want someone to do that for capitalism, someone to

813
00:48:57,440 --> 00:49:05,040
Speaker 1: be like my credit card, the paper I take out. Yeah,

814
00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:10,280
Speaker 1: I'm craving more product, more mysticism in sort of our issues.

815
00:49:10,520 --> 00:49:12,560
Speaker 1: And then it's like no, it's just that we all like,

816
00:49:12,719 --> 00:49:15,440
Speaker 1: are trying to make as much money as we possibly

817
00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:19,239
Speaker 1: can before we die. Yeah, I know what it is.

818
00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:21,399
Speaker 1: I do. I mean again, not to be so deab

819
00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:23,759
Speaker 1: but sincere and dab, but I do think that is

820
00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:26,520
Speaker 1: one of the ways that I think the boredom with

821
00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:28,920
Speaker 1: the topic is one of the huge ways that the

822
00:49:29,080 --> 00:49:32,640
Speaker 1: order is maintained. Yes, you're right, nobody wants to hit

823
00:49:32,719 --> 00:49:35,319
Speaker 1: the same wall over and over again. There's so there's

824
00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:37,439
Speaker 1: always a wish for novelty and for a new take,

825
00:49:37,520 --> 00:49:39,759
Speaker 1: and we've had a lot of novelty, but we still

826
00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:43,640
Speaker 1: have this order. Wow, that is um that's actually so

827
00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:47,080
Speaker 1: genius obsessed with that. It also is a snake eating

828
00:49:47,080 --> 00:49:52,640
Speaker 1: a tone the snake. Oh no, I hate sometimes ting

829
00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:53,920
Speaker 1: a podcast is one of the worst things you can

830
00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:56,719
Speaker 1: do because you have to talk and it's like sometimes

831
00:49:57,000 --> 00:50:01,279
Speaker 1: you just need to just shut up. You never need

832
00:50:01,360 --> 00:50:06,439
Speaker 1: to shut up, Thank you, queen. I love it. Um. Well,

833
00:50:07,080 --> 00:50:09,360
Speaker 1: so we gotta dress up the issue. I guess we

834
00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:11,319
Speaker 1: need to say here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna

835
00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:17,200
Speaker 1: put capitalism in drag, We're gonna make it shine, and

836
00:50:17,320 --> 00:50:19,640
Speaker 1: we're going to show the world that it's always been

837
00:50:19,680 --> 00:50:21,560
Speaker 1: the problem it's always we're going to show the world

838
00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:28,480
Speaker 1: capitalism can be a slag? Can it be? It is

839
00:50:28,520 --> 00:50:30,520
Speaker 1: what you're saying though, that like you always need a

840
00:50:30,600 --> 00:50:32,600
Speaker 1: new there always needs to be a new take. There

841
00:50:32,680 --> 00:50:34,359
Speaker 1: needs to be like a new thing they haven't seen before.

842
00:50:34,360 --> 00:50:36,160
Speaker 1: It's almost like a snake eating a tone tail, because

843
00:50:36,200 --> 00:50:41,000
Speaker 1: that is again a capitalistic um system where it's almost

844
00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:43,640
Speaker 1: like this like marketplace of ideas where you can't just

845
00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:46,640
Speaker 1: say the same thing of like capitalism is bad because

846
00:50:46,680 --> 00:50:50,920
Speaker 1: we've heard that before. Exactly, no, exactly, that won't sell it.

847
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:57,680
Speaker 1: Oh my god. So speaking of cell um, our next

848
00:50:57,840 --> 00:51:01,840
Speaker 1: ad is for oh my god, I forgot we do

849
00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:08,439
Speaker 1: I literally forgot where we do ads now? So okay,

850
00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:12,040
Speaker 1: wait data, I wanna as we as we kind of

851
00:51:12,120 --> 00:51:14,440
Speaker 1: you know, bring this home. I want I want to

852
00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:18,879
Speaker 1: go back to the being gay with friends things specifically

853
00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:22,080
Speaker 1: like how you see it happen. I like, so you

854
00:51:22,239 --> 00:51:26,040
Speaker 1: feel like TikTok instagram real is all that is is

855
00:51:26,120 --> 00:51:27,759
Speaker 1: one element of it. Are there other places in the

856
00:51:27,800 --> 00:51:30,279
Speaker 1: culture that you're seeing this kind of thing? Well? I

857
00:51:30,440 --> 00:51:33,880
Speaker 1: think I think in general maybe this has always been

858
00:51:33,880 --> 00:51:39,360
Speaker 1: the case, but uh, it's very hard for gay guys

859
00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:43,160
Speaker 1: to be gay with their friends, because then they just

860
00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:47,480
Speaker 1: are having sex, which is like different. This is where

861
00:51:47,560 --> 00:51:49,680
Speaker 1: my words sort of failed me. No, no, but like

862
00:51:50,040 --> 00:51:53,080
Speaker 1: I think that, do you know what is the best

863
00:51:53,120 --> 00:51:55,640
Speaker 1: to me? The best experience in the entire world is

864
00:51:56,080 --> 00:52:00,279
Speaker 1: your coupled to somebody. Right, you're in a relationship, and

865
00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:03,759
Speaker 1: then there's a there's another couple, right, and you have

866
00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:08,000
Speaker 1: a special rap whore with remember that couple. The sweetest,

867
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:11,040
Speaker 1: most enjoyable thing in life is to flirt with somebody

868
00:52:11,080 --> 00:52:15,680
Speaker 1: else's boyfriend, knowing that their relationship is secure and that

869
00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:20,880
Speaker 1: yours also is, and because you're stable at either point,

870
00:52:21,239 --> 00:52:24,360
Speaker 1: you can enjoy the freedom of flirting. And I think actually,

871
00:52:24,440 --> 00:52:27,280
Speaker 1: because straight guys, I'm not saying that they're not straight,

872
00:52:28,040 --> 00:52:30,239
Speaker 1: but I do think that because they're straight, they're able

873
00:52:30,280 --> 00:52:34,239
Speaker 1: to enjoy being gay in ways that gays can. Well

874
00:52:34,280 --> 00:52:38,400
Speaker 1: it's also yes, yes, well, because it's that that form

875
00:52:38,440 --> 00:52:42,719
Speaker 1: of straight homosexuality by definition, will never be available to

876
00:52:42,800 --> 00:52:47,399
Speaker 1: someone actually gay. Never. Never, You'll never walk, you'll never

877
00:52:47,480 --> 00:52:51,480
Speaker 1: go to go to Narnia. Well, it's almost like it's

878
00:52:51,920 --> 00:52:54,000
Speaker 1: not to be so reductant, but it's almost like how

879
00:52:54,320 --> 00:52:56,840
Speaker 1: the friendship between a gay guy and a straight woman

880
00:52:57,160 --> 00:52:59,800
Speaker 1: will never be available to like assist straight guy in

881
00:52:59,840 --> 00:53:03,640
Speaker 1: a and assist women. It's because relationally that just can't

882
00:53:04,239 --> 00:53:08,200
Speaker 1: happen absolutely. And I think I think that one of

883
00:53:08,239 --> 00:53:12,239
Speaker 1: the reasons that that, uh, well, I actually don't know

884
00:53:12,320 --> 00:53:14,560
Speaker 1: this for sure, but I do think that we're definitely

885
00:53:14,640 --> 00:53:21,960
Speaker 1: seeing a resurgence of liken man pro man kind of uh.

886
00:53:22,560 --> 00:53:24,080
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't want to name again, I don't

887
00:53:24,080 --> 00:53:26,080
Speaker 1: want to name names, but it does seem like men

888
00:53:26,200 --> 00:53:30,000
Speaker 1: are like turning away from the company of women in

889
00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:36,040
Speaker 1: some really sincere way. Like they're like they're either too

890
00:53:36,160 --> 00:53:41,560
Speaker 1: frustrated by the potential of doing harm so that they

891
00:53:41,719 --> 00:53:47,200
Speaker 1: like withdraw, or they're like too porned out there too,

892
00:53:47,280 --> 00:53:49,880
Speaker 1: they're too grat they're getting too much gratification on their

893
00:53:49,920 --> 00:53:52,800
Speaker 1: own just through their optimization of their own body and

894
00:53:52,920 --> 00:53:55,880
Speaker 1: through the consumption of a like a very programmatic selection

895
00:53:55,920 --> 00:53:59,800
Speaker 1: of pornography, that like they're not seeking out, they're not

896
00:54:00,160 --> 00:54:04,120
Speaker 1: seeking out the company of women. And and so I

897
00:54:04,200 --> 00:54:06,480
Speaker 1: don't know, a little a little sort of I just

898
00:54:06,560 --> 00:54:08,920
Speaker 1: feel that that is part of this thing and being

899
00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:11,400
Speaker 1: sort of gay with your friends, it's like there's no

900
00:54:11,480 --> 00:54:13,360
Speaker 1: one here to hurt us. There's no one here to

901
00:54:13,480 --> 00:54:15,640
Speaker 1: hurt us. And I do think it's like sort of

902
00:54:15,760 --> 00:54:18,560
Speaker 1: totally I do think it's totally pathetic, which is why

903
00:54:18,680 --> 00:54:21,680
Speaker 1: the Yeah, again, I'm leaning on the pejority of use

904
00:54:21,760 --> 00:54:24,839
Speaker 1: of the word they're doing. They're doing top two drag,

905
00:54:25,160 --> 00:54:28,799
Speaker 1: not going to get us video wow, because they weren't

906
00:54:28,800 --> 00:54:33,520
Speaker 1: actually lesbians. I don't know what is what tattoo is like?

907
00:54:34,120 --> 00:54:38,880
Speaker 1: Remember that? Yes, like they're like they're like making out

908
00:54:38,880 --> 00:54:42,240
Speaker 1: in the rain and yes, it's them against the world

909
00:54:42,800 --> 00:54:44,480
Speaker 1: and they made out of like the B M A

910
00:54:44,640 --> 00:54:49,640
Speaker 1: S And like Ashton Kutcher claps them that that clip

911
00:54:50,120 --> 00:54:53,640
Speaker 1: speaking of talk about millennial sort of trauma memories, Ashton

912
00:54:53,719 --> 00:54:59,120
Speaker 1: Kutcher clapping and p did he waiving his lazer around?

913
00:54:59,480 --> 00:55:01,319
Speaker 1: It was like that was like the ugliest thing I've

914
00:55:01,320 --> 00:55:04,040
Speaker 1: ever seen. It was a loss of innocence. Yeah. Yeah,

915
00:55:04,800 --> 00:55:09,680
Speaker 1: it's like it's like, oh my god, because I felt

916
00:55:09,719 --> 00:55:14,600
Speaker 1: bullied by that. Yeah, that hurt I'm surprised that Sam

917
00:55:14,719 --> 00:55:17,600
Speaker 1: do were are we it's the final segment? Time? Would

918
00:55:17,640 --> 00:55:21,640
Speaker 1: that be? Could that be the case? Yeah? I I

919
00:55:21,719 --> 00:55:24,439
Speaker 1: guess before we go into the final segment, I guess

920
00:55:24,480 --> 00:55:26,800
Speaker 1: I just want to say if there's any straight guys

921
00:55:26,920 --> 00:55:29,480
Speaker 1: out there that say, hey, I can be gay with

922
00:55:29,520 --> 00:55:31,800
Speaker 1: a gay guy and not have it be weird. I

923
00:55:31,920 --> 00:55:35,160
Speaker 1: want to say, hey, I'm here and I'm down, and

924
00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:38,640
Speaker 1: I can be totally chill and I'm really a good

925
00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:45,920
Speaker 1: hang Yeah. Yeah. And if anyone has a boat, I

926
00:55:45,920 --> 00:55:47,839
Speaker 1: would love to get out on the water. Yeah, I'll

927
00:55:47,920 --> 00:55:51,680
Speaker 1: bring the hose. If you bring the boat, I would

928
00:55:51,719 --> 00:55:59,120
Speaker 1: love to get out all the water. Yeah. Wow. Well, okay.

929
00:55:59,160 --> 00:56:02,440
Speaker 1: Our final segment THETA is called shout outs, and in

930
00:56:02,520 --> 00:56:04,480
Speaker 1: it we give a shout out to anything that we enjoy,

931
00:56:05,160 --> 00:56:07,759
Speaker 1: sort of in the style of t r L in

932
00:56:07,840 --> 00:56:09,840
Speaker 1: two thousand one, and you're shouting out to your squad

933
00:56:09,880 --> 00:56:14,040
Speaker 1: back home, a classic great form, anything you feel okay.

934
00:56:14,440 --> 00:56:16,239
Speaker 1: You know, by by design we always think of them

935
00:56:16,280 --> 00:56:18,160
Speaker 1: on the spot. It's kind of, you know, it's part

936
00:56:18,200 --> 00:56:21,120
Speaker 1: of the charm that everyone loves about both of us,

937
00:56:21,480 --> 00:56:25,239
Speaker 1: how unspared we are. Well, it's a radical transparency, but

938
00:56:25,560 --> 00:56:28,680
Speaker 1: radical transparency. I'm trying to think, like, do you have one, Sam,

939
00:56:29,920 --> 00:56:36,200
Speaker 1: I'm really really racking my damn brain. Um, I don't know.

940
00:56:36,520 --> 00:56:40,600
Speaker 1: I mean sure, I can I can sort of make yeah, whatever, Okay,

941
00:56:43,760 --> 00:56:49,200
Speaker 1: what's up everyone, boys, and everyone else who's not a boy.

942
00:56:49,760 --> 00:56:52,440
Speaker 1: I want to give that's my way of being inclusive

943
00:56:52,680 --> 00:56:57,360
Speaker 1: boys and not um. I want to give a huge

944
00:56:57,400 --> 00:57:02,040
Speaker 1: shout out to the island of Fire. Fire Island. I

945
00:57:02,239 --> 00:57:07,520
Speaker 1: was there last week and it was fun, but at

946
00:57:07,560 --> 00:57:09,840
Speaker 1: the same time it was miserable. Oh and this is

947
00:57:09,920 --> 00:57:12,840
Speaker 1: my actual shout out. I learned about a form of

948
00:57:13,239 --> 00:57:16,120
Speaker 1: um bonding that people do in sort of camps and

949
00:57:16,200 --> 00:57:20,840
Speaker 1: vacations called forming, storming, norming, performing morning, and I have

950
00:57:20,920 --> 00:57:23,840
Speaker 1: been thinking about it constantly. When you meet new people,

951
00:57:24,120 --> 00:57:27,080
Speaker 1: at first, it's forming your forming your relationships. It's it's joy,

952
00:57:27,640 --> 00:57:29,480
Speaker 1: and then you have storming where you fight, you go

953
00:57:29,600 --> 00:57:31,920
Speaker 1: back down to normal, you realize you aren't in love

954
00:57:31,960 --> 00:57:33,640
Speaker 1: with each other and you actually kind of hate each other.

955
00:57:33,960 --> 00:57:36,640
Speaker 1: Norming you accept each other's flaws and you can live

956
00:57:36,720 --> 00:57:41,440
Speaker 1: at peace. Performing you UM perform your role in the group.

957
00:57:41,840 --> 00:57:44,480
Speaker 1: And then the final stages Morning is when you are

958
00:57:44,560 --> 00:57:46,520
Speaker 1: in fact separated at the end of that, and you

959
00:57:46,880 --> 00:57:49,520
Speaker 1: UM take joy in the time that you had and

960
00:57:49,640 --> 00:57:51,920
Speaker 1: more in the loss of it. And I have been

961
00:57:51,960 --> 00:57:53,680
Speaker 1: thinking about it constantly, and it was very true for

962
00:57:53,760 --> 00:57:56,919
Speaker 1: our house, and I think everyone made things much easier

963
00:57:56,960 --> 00:57:58,360
Speaker 1: because when we were fighting. I'd be like, this is

964
00:57:58,400 --> 00:58:04,680
Speaker 1: just storming, tomorrow will be norming, and we were beautiful.

965
00:58:07,160 --> 00:58:09,560
Speaker 1: We found it. It got it was clumsy up top,

966
00:58:09,680 --> 00:58:14,080
Speaker 1: but we found it. Okay, all right, I'm deciding between two.

967
00:58:14,280 --> 00:58:15,760
Speaker 1: Neither of them are good. Okay, Wait, I have a

968
00:58:15,800 --> 00:58:19,560
Speaker 1: subshot out for my shod That that was um Natalie

969
00:58:19,640 --> 00:58:21,880
Speaker 1: rodderd Lightman told me that friend of the pond. Wait,

970
00:58:22,000 --> 00:58:26,520
Speaker 1: she told you that entire the forming framework storming normal

971
00:58:26,640 --> 00:58:28,680
Speaker 1: performing morning. Yeah, she used to work at like summer

972
00:58:28,720 --> 00:58:30,680
Speaker 1: camps and she told me about it. Oh she didn't

973
00:58:30,720 --> 00:58:35,600
Speaker 1: invent it. No, no, she's a thing. I'm sorry to say.

974
00:58:35,600 --> 00:58:37,720
Speaker 1: I thought you really like came up with that whole cloth,

975
00:58:37,800 --> 00:58:40,400
Speaker 1: but I was kind of stunned. Oh no, no, no, no,

976
00:58:40,560 --> 00:58:42,320
Speaker 1: You're literally like, oh, I don't know. I guess my

977
00:58:42,360 --> 00:58:44,760
Speaker 1: shoutout can be and then it's like a fully formed

978
00:58:45,040 --> 00:58:48,640
Speaker 1: theory of human behavior. No, no, it's it's been tested

979
00:58:48,960 --> 00:58:55,360
Speaker 1: by scientists. Okay, I you know, I actually have a

980
00:58:55,480 --> 00:58:59,320
Speaker 1: shout out that is very relevant to our topic. But

981
00:58:59,360 --> 00:59:00,960
Speaker 1: I feel a bit about But I'm gonna just go

982
00:59:01,080 --> 00:59:08,520
Speaker 1: for it. What's up, breaks and losers out there? It's

983
00:59:08,560 --> 00:59:10,120
Speaker 1: your boy, George. I want to give a quick shout

984
00:59:10,160 --> 00:59:12,960
Speaker 1: out to the type of guy that's like a soft

985
00:59:13,120 --> 00:59:16,360
Speaker 1: guy that you see at yoga. It's like he has

986
00:59:16,560 --> 00:59:20,320
Speaker 1: he has the jewelry, he has the tattoos, he has

987
00:59:20,480 --> 00:59:24,040
Speaker 1: a he has kind eyes. And then in the middle

988
00:59:24,040 --> 00:59:25,480
Speaker 1: of a class, it takes a shirt off and does

989
00:59:25,560 --> 00:59:28,760
Speaker 1: the poses. And because of the way you are positioned,

990
00:59:29,240 --> 00:59:33,000
Speaker 1: you when you are looking at him, he is in

991
00:59:33,080 --> 00:59:35,040
Speaker 1: fact facing the other way, so you can just freely

992
00:59:35,200 --> 00:59:39,000
Speaker 1: look at every inch of that body. Yeah, and then

993
00:59:39,360 --> 00:59:41,240
Speaker 1: the class ends and you can kind of have an

994
00:59:41,280 --> 00:59:44,840
Speaker 1: unspoken like thank you for that. I really appreciate it.

995
00:59:45,320 --> 00:59:47,400
Speaker 1: Normally I would not have a front row seat to

996
00:59:47,480 --> 00:59:49,600
Speaker 1: this in my day to day life. But today you

997
00:59:49,720 --> 00:59:53,160
Speaker 1: gave me that gift and I gotta work out. So

998
00:59:53,280 --> 01:00:00,720
Speaker 1: shout out to him who who and say whenever you

999
01:00:00,840 --> 01:00:04,640
Speaker 1: already I say, go off, oh a shout out? Do

1000
01:00:04,800 --> 01:00:07,680
Speaker 1: I do a little so a thing like what's up everybody?

1001
01:00:07,800 --> 01:00:10,600
Speaker 1: What's up everybody? Yeah? Like what however you want to

1002
01:00:10,720 --> 01:00:12,880
Speaker 1: you can you can make it your own in any

1003
01:00:13,120 --> 01:00:16,960
Speaker 1: any way you feel comfortable. What's up to New York?

1004
01:00:17,040 --> 01:00:18,720
Speaker 1: I just want to give that shout out to any

1005
01:00:18,800 --> 01:00:21,280
Speaker 1: place that sir. It's just like a nice simple meal

1006
01:00:21,720 --> 01:00:27,280
Speaker 1: of like just rice, broccoli and a protein favors. No chili, lime,

1007
01:00:27,520 --> 01:00:31,120
Speaker 1: fucking please, no, nothing too intense, like please just let

1008
01:00:31,200 --> 01:00:33,440
Speaker 1: me live. I would like to give a shout out

1009
01:00:33,440 --> 01:00:37,800
Speaker 1: to you. I have been thinking about this constantly. I'm like,

1010
01:00:37,960 --> 01:00:39,960
Speaker 1: why can't I just find a restaurant that is like

1011
01:00:40,360 --> 01:00:45,080
Speaker 1: grilled chicken and salad like it's insane? And I guess

1012
01:00:45,120 --> 01:00:49,560
Speaker 1: the answer is Diners, But why can't it be better? Yeah?

1013
01:00:49,880 --> 01:00:52,480
Speaker 1: Why can't it be better? Why? I mean? I mean,

1014
01:00:52,640 --> 01:00:55,000
Speaker 1: I want, I literally want a dining hall. That's kind

1015
01:00:55,040 --> 01:00:57,640
Speaker 1: of my fantasy. I didn't want a dining hall that

1016
01:00:57,880 --> 01:00:59,960
Speaker 1: I just don't want to cook for myself as essentially,

1017
01:01:00,440 --> 01:01:02,120
Speaker 1: and I don't want groceries, and I don't want to

1018
01:01:02,160 --> 01:01:04,680
Speaker 1: think about it absolutely. Do you know what's literally like

1019
01:01:04,920 --> 01:01:07,040
Speaker 1: impossible when you're like, oh, I'm in the mood for

1020
01:01:07,120 --> 01:01:09,240
Speaker 1: something healthy, to to get take out or to go

1021
01:01:09,280 --> 01:01:12,040
Speaker 1: to restaurant that does not exist, does not exist, can't happen.

1022
01:01:12,600 --> 01:01:14,640
Speaker 1: Never I've never known it to happen never. Never know

1023
01:01:15,040 --> 01:01:20,040
Speaker 1: that has not been my experiences. It's terrible. But so

1024
01:01:20,080 --> 01:01:21,960
Speaker 1: I would give a shout out to the to anybody

1025
01:01:22,080 --> 01:01:25,760
Speaker 1: that bucks that trench. Yeah. Yeah, you little entrepreneurs out there,

1026
01:01:26,160 --> 01:01:29,600
Speaker 1: We've got here for you. New York City is hungry

1027
01:01:29,680 --> 01:01:33,720
Speaker 1: for healthy meals. Um. Well, Santa, thank you so much

1028
01:01:33,760 --> 01:01:38,160
Speaker 1: for doing this. I feel enlightened. I feel um. That

1029
01:01:38,360 --> 01:01:43,000
Speaker 1: was really an incredible episode. Class was in session. Yeah,

1030
01:01:43,280 --> 01:01:45,640
Speaker 1: it was my great pleasure to speak with you both,

1031
01:01:46,120 --> 01:01:50,520
Speaker 1: Sam and George Stradi A lab now on my heart.

1032
01:01:54,520 --> 01:01:57,000
Speaker 1: I truly truly what a what a pleasure, I mean,

1033
01:01:57,160 --> 01:02:01,360
Speaker 1: such a good epping a bottom second to second would

1034
01:02:01,400 --> 01:02:06,840
Speaker 1: not change a thing. It's just fun to talk. It's okay,

1035
01:02:07,120 --> 01:02:15,680
Speaker 1: that's what podcastimate of Foo Foo