WEBVTT - A&G Replay Thursday Hour Three

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<v Speaker 1>Broadcasting live from the Abraham Lincoln Radio Studio the George

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<v Speaker 1>Washington Broadcast Center.

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<v Speaker 2>Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty Armstrong and Jetty, and he.

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<v Speaker 3>Armstrong and Getty Strong Happy Thanksgiving. It's the Armstrong and

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<v Speaker 3>Getty replay. I hope you eat as much as you can.

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<v Speaker 3>I hope you're in pain by the end of the day.

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<v Speaker 3>I know I will be.

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<v Speaker 4>Now Here are some delicious Armstrong and Geddy leftovers.

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<v Speaker 3>Get filled up with more of Armstrong and Getty with

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<v Speaker 3>our podcast Armstrong and Getdy on demand. Your loved one

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<v Speaker 3>or maybe yourself wants.

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<v Speaker 4>An Armstrong and Getty hoodie, T shirt, hat or more.

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<v Speaker 4>They're at Armstrongygeddy dot com.

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<v Speaker 3>A bout a bike. I'm gonna become bike riding guy,

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<v Speaker 3>the one of those guys where is the really skin

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<v Speaker 3>tight clothes walks around the Starbucks. I'm not, actually, but

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<v Speaker 3>I pictured you more shirtless over Tenned Methy. Probably stolen

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<v Speaker 3>bike down right. You're going like Tour de Front riding

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<v Speaker 3>a kid's bike. I'm somewhere in between. I'm gonna be

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<v Speaker 3>in probably jeens, tennis shoes and a T shirt. But

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<v Speaker 3>I am on a real bike, not a child's bike

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<v Speaker 3>I took out of someone's backyard, the suburban gentleman, look

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<v Speaker 3>exactly why not.

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<v Speaker 4>We were talking yesterday about an absolutely blockbuster report in

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<v Speaker 4>the Hill about how vast majorities of college kids don't

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<v Speaker 4>believe the garbage they've been indoctrinated in, but they're afraid

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<v Speaker 4>to say it.

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<v Speaker 3>That is one of the more important things for people

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<v Speaker 3>to know that I can remember. I mean, this is

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<v Speaker 3>important information. Yeah, and we hammered this pretty good yesterday.

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<v Speaker 3>But seventy eight percent of students told us a self

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<v Speaker 3>censor on their belief sound surrounding gender identity, seventy two

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<v Speaker 3>percent on politics in general, sixty eight percent on family values.

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<v Speaker 3>They value what are traditionally known as family values, but

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<v Speaker 3>they dare not speak it on college campus.

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<v Speaker 4>And more than eighty percent so they'd submitted classwork that

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<v Speaker 4>represented their views in order to align with professors. You

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<v Speaker 4>give them a chance and they will tell you what

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<v Speaker 4>they really think. And we are on the cusp. I

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<v Speaker 4>think of a huge move toward the youngsters of recognizing

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<v Speaker 4>what's being done at colleges. It's not education at all,

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<v Speaker 4>it's indoctrination. But those poll numbers were stunning and.

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<v Speaker 3>Encouraging.

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<v Speaker 5>Well.

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<v Speaker 3>The important thing to me, though, is just realizing that

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<v Speaker 3>as human nature, that we're all so susceptible. I don't

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<v Speaker 3>know about all, but so many people are susceptible to this. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>of keeping your mouth shut if you think most people

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<v Speaker 3>don't agree with you. I keep my mouth shut in

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<v Speaker 3>most social situations about political stuff. But right, yeah, well,

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<v Speaker 3>and the whole concept of a preference, just which I

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<v Speaker 3>find so interesting that you because everybody around you is silent,

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<v Speaker 3>you think, oh, I'm probably one of the only people

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<v Speaker 3>who believes this. Right, they agree with the powerful people

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<v Speaker 3>who are telling us all what we ought to believe.

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<v Speaker 3>But no, you're all sitting there thinking the same thing. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>And I don't know how many times, probably everybody's had

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<v Speaker 3>this situation where that is going on, and somebody says,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, I'm a gun owner, and I'm me too,

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<v Speaker 3>me too, and that's oh, geez, okay, so we're not

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<v Speaker 3>all well and that's whatever the topic is. And that's

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<v Speaker 3>the crazy thing, you know, to if you find yourself

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<v Speaker 3>in college and thinking, you know, this this stuff about

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<v Speaker 3>you know, the gender beenning madness. A man can just

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<v Speaker 3>become a woman, And that's really a woman and all

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<v Speaker 3>the other stuff they teach these poor kids, all the

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<v Speaker 3>critical theory stuff. If you have the courage to stand

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<v Speaker 3>up and be that rebel and think, you know what,

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<v Speaker 3>ten percent of us are together, I'm going to stand

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<v Speaker 3>up and say so, then all of a sudden, eighty

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<v Speaker 3>five percent of the classes on your side. You are

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<v Speaker 3>a But you know you're not nearly as alone as

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<v Speaker 3>you think. Yeah, you can't blame people though, I mean, oh,

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<v Speaker 3>it's not blame them at all. First of all, everything

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<v Speaker 3>that's been presented to all of us led us to

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<v Speaker 3>believe that this is what most people on college campus

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<v Speaker 3>has thought was this stuff.

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<v Speaker 4>Well that's part of the insidious plot. That's what propaganda is.

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<v Speaker 3>Sure, and telling everybody, including the teachers who are going

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<v Speaker 3>to grade you, that they're wrong, completely wrong, is not

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<v Speaker 3>always your best move, right. Oh yeah, Well that's why

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<v Speaker 3>eighty percent of the kids submitted work that they didn't believe,

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<v Speaker 3>because they had to get some to get their grades

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<v Speaker 3>and move on in life. Nearly four out of five.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't believe this, but I'm gonna pretend I do

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<v Speaker 3>to get along. That's amazing. Yeah, yeah, but that's you know,

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<v Speaker 3>that's indoctrination, especially of youth, is all about fighting unfairly

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<v Speaker 3>and bullying and convincing kids that everybody believes it, and

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<v Speaker 3>anybody who dissentses ab person. So yeah, I don't blame

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<v Speaker 3>the kids at all. No, I want to fight against

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<v Speaker 3>the evildoers or bullying them anyway. Morgad News and if

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<v Speaker 3>San Francisco's doing it, it's gonna spread. San Francisco has

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<v Speaker 3>embraced a new tool to clear homeless camps. I've noticed

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<v Speaker 3>city officials pointing to cleaner streets is evidence that more

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<v Speaker 3>active approach is working. I feel like my reporters say

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<v Speaker 3>it's cruel and nasty. I feel like my reporting, with

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<v Speaker 3>my own circumstances was leading the way long before the

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<v Speaker 3>Wall Street Journal or others picked up on this. On

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<v Speaker 3>the East coast, San Francisco's a complete if you haven't

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<v Speaker 3>been in a long time, it's a completely different looking

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<v Speaker 3>city than it was a year ago. It's amazing.

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<v Speaker 4>Indeed, between July of last year and July of this year,

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<v Speaker 4>the city arrested or cited more than one thousand and

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<v Speaker 4>eighty people on illegal lodging charges. That's over ten times

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<v Speaker 4>the number of arrests during the same period a year

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<v Speaker 4>earlier under the progressive former administration. Last time I was

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<v Speaker 4>in downtown San Francisco, I a homeless person one and

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<v Speaker 4>that person was being talked to by somebody from the

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<v Speaker 4>city about how you got to get out of here.

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<v Speaker 4>So the residents and business owners complaining about safety as

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<v Speaker 4>encampments grew have finally been heard.

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<v Speaker 3>Now.

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<v Speaker 4>Of course, the activists say, you're merely shifting the homeless

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<v Speaker 4>population around the city and putting homeless people a greater risk.

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<v Speaker 3>Shut up.

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<v Speaker 4>Most of them need to shdrug addicts. Yeah, yeah, shut up.

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<v Speaker 4>So San Francisco is doing a good job. It is possible,

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<v Speaker 4>even under some of the bizarre court rulings recently. And

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<v Speaker 4>also and this is out of San Francisco as well.

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<v Speaker 4>Once seen as a model of progressive drug policy, San

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<v Speaker 4>Francisco stands now as a morbid example of how harm

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<v Speaker 4>reduction has gone astray. This is one of the shibboleths,

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<v Speaker 4>one of the gods of the left is that you've

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<v Speaker 4>got to help junkies do drugs safely and comfortably. Look,

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<v Speaker 4>I get the clean needles thing, I get the impulse there.

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<v Speaker 3>What's the theory on that, though, how's that supposed to

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<v Speaker 3>end that people will on their own decide, you know what,

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<v Speaker 3>I don't want to live in my own filth on

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<v Speaker 3>the street at some point, yes, okay, yes, exactly. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 4>In fact, this gal, who's the executive director of the

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<v Speaker 4>National Harm Reduction Coalition, called the shift in San Francisco

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<v Speaker 4>away from the harm reduction quote moronic and antithetical to

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<v Speaker 4>what we know works. But the problem in San Francisco

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<v Speaker 4>and other progressive cities is that harm reduction has become

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<v Speaker 4>completely divorced from recovery. What began as a campaign to

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<v Speaker 4>keep people alive long enough to recover from addiction has

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<v Speaker 4>devolved into a philosophy that no longer considers recovery as

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<v Speaker 4>necessary or even desirable. The question of whether or not

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<v Speaker 4>harm reduction is successful comes down to whether it's treated

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<v Speaker 4>as a gateway to recovery or as an alternative to it.

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<v Speaker 3>So there you go.

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<v Speaker 4>It has become an alternative to getting off of drugs.

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<v Speaker 3>What percentage? So I'm I'm not a big financed by

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<v Speaker 3>you the taxpayer. I'm not big on the UH on

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<v Speaker 3>rehabs and that sort of stuff, because they are incredibly

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<v Speaker 3>unsuccessful and nobody pays any attention to that. But of

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<v Speaker 3>people that I mean, not just for regular people, of

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<v Speaker 3>people that are so far down the whole drug road

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<v Speaker 3>that you're sleeping on the street next to another drug addict.

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<v Speaker 3>How many of those people ever clean up? I wonder

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<v Speaker 3>half of one percent. I'll bet it's I'll bet it's very,

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<v Speaker 3>very low.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I'm guessing you know, a pretty good chunk of

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<v Speaker 4>them continue using into their forties fifties, and then they

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<v Speaker 4>succumb to you know, the sort of thing middle aged

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<v Speaker 4>addicts do. As you know, a coroner once said in

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<v Speaker 4>response to the question who's your most common customer? Uh,

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<v Speaker 4>they said male fifties alcoholic, and I'm sure drug addict. Now,

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<v Speaker 4>because that was, gosh, fifteen years ago, I think they

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<v Speaker 4>would probably say, yeah, middle aged drug addict or a

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<v Speaker 4>young drug addict.

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<v Speaker 3>Anyway, more good news, though. Don't want to get focused

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<v Speaker 3>on the bad news. Want to get focused on the

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<v Speaker 3>fact that.

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<v Speaker 4>A lot of the insane policies of the left are

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<v Speaker 4>being abandoned, even in places like San Francisco. Different topic,

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<v Speaker 4>but kind of the same area. Boston Children's Hospital, the

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<v Speaker 4>Harvard Medical Research and Training hospital that specializes in children's care,

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<v Speaker 4>had previously insisted that they do not perform genital surgeries

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<v Speaker 4>as part of gender affirming care on patients under the

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<v Speaker 4>age of eighteen, but a journal of Clinical Medicine Studies

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<v Speaker 4>published a couple of years ago that was improved. Blah

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<v Speaker 4>blah blah describes chess surgeries for those who are fifteen

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<v Speaker 4>as well as genital surgeries for those over seventeen. And

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<v Speaker 4>the Trump administration has subpoenaed all sorts of information from them.

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<v Speaker 4>And because of that, at least partly, and this is

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<v Speaker 4>from the New York Times reload plays, there is hospitals

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<v Speaker 4>are limiting gender treatment for transminers. Both of those phrases

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<v Speaker 4>ought to be in quotes because they're made up.

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<v Speaker 3>Even in blue states.

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<v Speaker 4>Three prominent medical centers in California recently announced they would

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<v Speaker 4>stop the treatments, citing pressure from the Trump administration and

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<v Speaker 4>from sanity.

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<v Speaker 3>So that's good. There's a lot of real madness being

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<v Speaker 3>rolled back. Good progress domestically. Love it. Let's not focus

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<v Speaker 3>on the grim stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>The Armstrong and Getty Show, Yeah, your show, podcasts and

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<v Speaker 1>our hot links Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty, The Armstrong

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<v Speaker 1>and Getty Show.

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<v Speaker 4>So my Sweetheart, Judy and I spent eight days in

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<v Speaker 4>London and had an absolutely wonderful time. I loved England

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<v Speaker 4>as I suspected I would. It's a very interesting place.

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<v Speaker 4>I've become a fan of day drinking, and not in

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<v Speaker 4>that like vacation drinking all day long way, but in

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<v Speaker 4>the like you have a pint at lunch at a

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<v Speaker 4>pub and then you go do what you're going to do.

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<v Speaker 4>You're not quote unquote drinking. You just have a beer

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<v Speaker 4>because it's nice and it makes you feel slightly more cheerful.

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<v Speaker 3>Why did we eat? How did we develop our attitude

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<v Speaker 3>we have in the United States over the years, because

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<v Speaker 3>I remember when I was in Italy thinking the same thing.

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<v Speaker 3>Everybody would come in the restaurants, like people who are

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<v Speaker 3>working their jobs. They'd have a glass of wine, eat

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<v Speaker 3>their food and then go back to work. And that

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<v Speaker 3>is seen in the United States. It's just insane, just

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<v Speaker 3>absolutely crazy.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, the Europeans have what I would call a very

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<v Speaker 4>European look or view of drinking that I found refreshed.

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<v Speaker 4>Speaking of pubs. So we rented a flat in Mayfair

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<v Speaker 4>if you know where that is, doesn't matter. New Bond Street,

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<v Speaker 4>lots of like crazy high end shopping, mostly populated by

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<v Speaker 4>Kuwaiti oil money. Oh wow, by the bye, guys walking

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<v Speaker 4>up the street with four chicks and the beekeeper out

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<v Speaker 4>really going into perfume stores and spending just one godly

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<v Speaker 4>amounts of oil money a lot real.

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<v Speaker 3>That's not an exaggeration. You saw a guy walking up

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<v Speaker 3>the street with four women in the beekeeper out in

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<v Speaker 3>eight days many times? Yes, wow, I mean one to

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<v Speaker 3>six women in the beekeeper wow. Yeah. Anyway, they are

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<v Speaker 3>basically sex slaves or cleaning your house slaves or whatever,

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<v Speaker 3>and everybody just tolerates that with no rights.

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<v Speaker 4>That's correct, yes, And Brits are not super duper happy

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<v Speaker 4>about the completely wildly unfettered immigration from Muslim lands over

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<v Speaker 4>the last twenty years.

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<v Speaker 3>More on that another time.

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<v Speaker 4>But anyway, but out our windows onto the street, there

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<v Speaker 4>was a little like I just had half a block

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<v Speaker 4>long street and there was a pub on each side

0:12:57.040 --> 0:12:58.760
<v Speaker 4>of it. At the other end it was one hundred

0:12:58.840 --> 0:13:00.920
<v Speaker 4>yards from us maybe as we looked out the window,

0:13:01.200 --> 0:13:06.280
<v Speaker 4>and it was so cool every day and more and

0:13:06.320 --> 0:13:09.640
<v Speaker 4>more as the week went on. At four thirty or so,

0:13:09.679 --> 0:13:13.360
<v Speaker 4>certainly by five o'clock there would be so many people

0:13:13.920 --> 0:13:17.400
<v Speaker 4>standing in and outside the pub having a pint with

0:13:17.440 --> 0:13:21.920
<v Speaker 4>their coworkers and friends and a laugh and a conversation

0:13:22.160 --> 0:13:23.680
<v Speaker 4>before they went home for the day.

0:13:23.880 --> 0:13:27.520
<v Speaker 3>Sounds like a recipe for sexual harassment. Oh my god.

0:13:27.640 --> 0:13:30.960
<v Speaker 3>And it wasn't. They were drinking.

0:13:31.640 --> 0:13:37.760
<v Speaker 4>No, they were talking with people because they worked with people,

0:13:38.200 --> 0:13:40.880
<v Speaker 4>and they met their buddies, and they talked about the

0:13:40.880 --> 0:13:44.600
<v Speaker 4>football match, which is soccer, and it just it was

0:13:44.800 --> 0:13:46.440
<v Speaker 4>so nice.

0:13:47.400 --> 0:13:47.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:13:47.800 --> 0:13:50.640
<v Speaker 3>Anyway, yeah, and I thought, wow, I could get used

0:13:50.640 --> 0:13:53.520
<v Speaker 3>to this in a hurry. Although the pub thing, we

0:13:54.000 --> 0:13:56.520
<v Speaker 3>went to this one historic pub. We met our next

0:13:56.520 --> 0:13:59.280
<v Speaker 3>door neighbors from home. Weirdly enough, they were over there

0:13:59.280 --> 0:14:01.280
<v Speaker 3>at the same time, decided to get together. We go

0:14:01.320 --> 0:14:06.600
<v Speaker 3>to this pub, hundreds of years old, pub, drenched in history, legendary,

0:14:06.760 --> 0:14:09.480
<v Speaker 3>the Prince something or lord what's its there, I don't

0:14:09.480 --> 0:14:12.480
<v Speaker 3>even remember the name, but it was very atmospheric. But anyway,

0:14:12.640 --> 0:14:15.480
<v Speaker 3>so we're sitting there having dinner and or we're having

0:14:15.600 --> 0:14:17.439
<v Speaker 3>you know, a couple of pines, and we decide it's

0:14:17.440 --> 0:14:20.360
<v Speaker 3>time to eat, and we order like four small plates

0:14:20.360 --> 0:14:23.520
<v Speaker 3>off the menu, and the waitress come back and says,

0:14:23.840 --> 0:14:27.600
<v Speaker 3>I'm so sorry, we're actually out of the calamari and

0:14:27.880 --> 0:14:30.920
<v Speaker 3>the pucker fish or whatever the hell it was, and

0:14:31.240 --> 0:14:37.680
<v Speaker 3>also the beef Wellington, and we're like, oh okay, it's

0:14:37.720 --> 0:14:40.800
<v Speaker 3>like six o'clock at night, all right, all right, all right,

0:14:40.840 --> 0:14:43.320
<v Speaker 3>we'll order those other things. Then she comes back in

0:14:43.360 --> 0:14:46.080
<v Speaker 3>like two of those three are out. So should she

0:14:46.080 --> 0:14:49.200
<v Speaker 3>ever get around to admitting we're not actually a restaurant.

0:14:48.840 --> 0:14:51.160
<v Speaker 3>We don't have any food at all. We just have

0:14:51.240 --> 0:14:53.440
<v Speaker 3>a menu. We just hope we're working out the wind.

0:14:53.720 --> 0:14:56.560
<v Speaker 3>Most people start drinking, they forget if they're hungry. So

0:14:56.880 --> 0:14:59.000
<v Speaker 3>at one point I said, it would save time if

0:14:59.040 --> 0:15:03.080
<v Speaker 3>you just told me what you do have, but we

0:15:03.200 --> 0:15:05.880
<v Speaker 3>end up with this mess of food. Did you say

0:15:05.920 --> 0:15:10.720
<v Speaker 3>that I shouldn't have? But I didn't know. And finally

0:15:10.760 --> 0:15:12.480
<v Speaker 3>so at the end of the evening and it was lovely,

0:15:12.800 --> 0:15:15.960
<v Speaker 3>she comes and says, can you tell me what you

0:15:16.200 --> 0:15:17.400
<v Speaker 3>actually ordered?

0:15:17.520 --> 0:15:18.040
<v Speaker 1>And got?

0:15:19.040 --> 0:15:19.240
<v Speaker 2>Oh?

0:15:19.280 --> 0:15:21.920
<v Speaker 3>Boys? And I'm like, wait a minute, that's your job.

0:15:23.840 --> 0:15:27.880
<v Speaker 3>We're some pot No, no, no, you tell us. And

0:15:27.920 --> 0:15:31.440
<v Speaker 3>it was just part of it is Tipping is not

0:15:31.520 --> 0:15:35.440
<v Speaker 3>really a thing there. Now they've got a service charge

0:15:35.480 --> 0:15:42.360
<v Speaker 3>that's like five, six, maybe ten percent, but you feel

0:15:42.400 --> 0:15:45.160
<v Speaker 3>it because they're not earning it. They're like, look, I'm

0:15:45.160 --> 0:15:48.600
<v Speaker 3>getting my six percent. Oh okay, No, matter what gotcha?

0:15:49.080 --> 0:15:51.800
<v Speaker 3>So if you have to like order twenty four foods

0:15:51.840 --> 0:15:54.440
<v Speaker 3>before I bring you three, just because we're playing this

0:15:54.520 --> 0:15:57.320
<v Speaker 3>little game of we might have it, we might not,

0:15:57.880 --> 0:16:02.680
<v Speaker 3>why don't you order find out so you know it's

0:16:02.720 --> 0:16:05.480
<v Speaker 3>it's pluses and minuses, because the whole tipping thing is

0:16:05.560 --> 0:16:08.040
<v Speaker 3>it's stressful, especially if you don't know the local customs.

0:16:08.040 --> 0:16:10.600
<v Speaker 3>But yeah, Michael, how was the food over there? Overall?

0:16:11.480 --> 0:16:12.720
<v Speaker 3>In England? Uh?

0:16:13.560 --> 0:16:19.440
<v Speaker 4>Overall kind of good, not great, But once you realize

0:16:19.480 --> 0:16:21.920
<v Speaker 4>how to order and what to order, it's it's better.

0:16:22.240 --> 0:16:24.720
<v Speaker 4>But yeah, the Brits are not famous for food for

0:16:24.720 --> 0:16:27.240
<v Speaker 4>for good reason. If you say, hey, what's a great

0:16:27.320 --> 0:16:29.920
<v Speaker 4>meal around here, people will send you to an Italian

0:16:29.960 --> 0:16:34.920
<v Speaker 4>restaurant or an Indian restaurant for a good reason. But

0:16:35.000 --> 0:16:37.360
<v Speaker 4>the other thing about workers that I found interesting. We

0:16:37.680 --> 0:16:39.480
<v Speaker 4>had a tour guide at the British Museum who was

0:16:39.520 --> 0:16:41.600
<v Speaker 4>just terrific. He was a professor of history.

0:16:42.200 --> 0:16:45.520
<v Speaker 3>And he said, yeah, that exhibit is shut down because

0:16:45.520 --> 0:16:49.360
<v Speaker 3>there's just no employees. There's no one to work. I said, what,

0:16:49.480 --> 0:16:53.040
<v Speaker 3>that's odd? He said, oh, yeah, since COVID, everybody stays home,

0:16:53.280 --> 0:16:56.360
<v Speaker 3>they live with their parents. They're collecting government checks, you

0:16:56.400 --> 0:16:57.440
<v Speaker 3>can't get people to work.

0:16:57.680 --> 0:17:00.880
<v Speaker 4>Wow, And I thought that was so interesting and exactly

0:17:00.880 --> 0:17:02.960
<v Speaker 4>what you hear from so many employers in the States.

0:17:03.000 --> 0:17:05.600
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, we had that conversation with my family in the

0:17:05.640 --> 0:17:08.040
<v Speaker 3>Midwest of the United States. I don't go to other

0:17:08.119 --> 0:17:10.320
<v Speaker 3>countries and give them my money. I stay in the

0:17:10.440 --> 0:17:14.160
<v Speaker 3>United States and for you. But we had the same

0:17:14.160 --> 0:17:17.120
<v Speaker 3>conversation on how number of restaurants, including the one we

0:17:17.119 --> 0:17:23.600
<v Speaker 3>were at, was really they they weren't seating all the seats,

0:17:23.640 --> 0:17:26.600
<v Speaker 3>not because they were crowded, but because they didn't have

0:17:26.680 --> 0:17:29.840
<v Speaker 3>enough help. How is that still a thing? Yeah, I know,

0:17:29.880 --> 0:17:32.720
<v Speaker 3>it's amazing and universally universal apparently.

0:17:40.359 --> 0:18:10.320
<v Speaker 2>Armstrong and show.

0:18:02.720 --> 0:18:06.000
<v Speaker 3>The president decides to do something with an executive order

0:18:06.080 --> 0:18:10.080
<v Speaker 3>or whatever often that they promised on the campaign trail,

0:18:10.359 --> 0:18:14.320
<v Speaker 3>their voters get all excited, Yay, they did it day

0:18:14.359 --> 0:18:17.639
<v Speaker 3>one like they promised, And then then I get an

0:18:17.640 --> 0:18:20.280
<v Speaker 3>alert on my phone. Some judge somewhere I've never heard

0:18:20.280 --> 0:18:22.199
<v Speaker 3>of it said no, you can't do that. And then

0:18:22.240 --> 0:18:25.840
<v Speaker 3>it stops, and everybody's like groans, like, oh, they can

0:18:25.880 --> 0:18:28.840
<v Speaker 3>do that, and it keeps happening over and over again,

0:18:29.960 --> 0:18:32.360
<v Speaker 3>and do we want that system to continue that way?

0:18:32.440 --> 0:18:34.280
<v Speaker 3>Or not as part of what the Supreme Court was

0:18:34.359 --> 0:18:36.360
<v Speaker 3>arguing about yesterday. And as one of the justices said,

0:18:36.359 --> 0:18:38.960
<v Speaker 3>there are six hundred some federal judges and while I

0:18:39.040 --> 0:18:43.000
<v Speaker 3>do not question their motives, sometimes they are wrong. So

0:18:43.080 --> 0:18:44.359
<v Speaker 3>do we want them to be able to hold up

0:18:44.400 --> 0:18:45.040
<v Speaker 3>the whole country?

0:18:45.480 --> 0:18:50.240
<v Speaker 4>Let us discuss the very interesting and multifaceted oral arguments

0:18:50.320 --> 0:18:53.720
<v Speaker 4>yesterday before the Supreme Court with Tim Sandefer, vice president

0:18:53.760 --> 0:18:58.600
<v Speaker 4>for Legal Affairs at the Goldwater Institute, among other auspicious titles,

0:18:58.880 --> 0:19:01.680
<v Speaker 4>author of eight books, include most recently Freedom's Fories, How

0:19:01.720 --> 0:19:05.680
<v Speaker 4>Isabel Patterson, Rosewilder and ein Rand Found Liberty and Age

0:19:05.720 --> 0:19:06.159
<v Speaker 4>of Darkness.

0:19:06.280 --> 0:19:09.080
<v Speaker 3>I've recommended it many times. It's terrific. Tim. How are you, sir?

0:19:10.000 --> 0:19:10.320
<v Speaker 2>Just great?

0:19:10.320 --> 0:19:11.080
<v Speaker 5>Thanks for having me back.

0:19:11.119 --> 0:19:14.679
<v Speaker 3>Guys published poet, got to throw that in there. True, Yes,

0:19:14.920 --> 0:19:16.440
<v Speaker 3>a polymath as they say.

0:19:17.080 --> 0:19:21.600
<v Speaker 4>Anyway, Tim, So, ostensibly everyone's talking about that we're going

0:19:21.640 --> 0:19:24.280
<v Speaker 4>to discuss birthright citizenship in front of the Supreme Court,

0:19:24.520 --> 0:19:28.160
<v Speaker 4>and that did come up. But would you agree that

0:19:28.200 --> 0:19:32.960
<v Speaker 4>the more significant discussion was about nationwide injunctions by individual

0:19:32.960 --> 0:19:33.719
<v Speaker 4>federal judges?

0:19:34.520 --> 0:19:34.680
<v Speaker 2>Oh?

0:19:34.720 --> 0:19:35.520
<v Speaker 3>Yes, absolutely.

0:19:35.560 --> 0:19:37.320
<v Speaker 5>That was the focus of the argument, and it was

0:19:37.359 --> 0:19:41.000
<v Speaker 5>a very interesting argument, but I don't think that it's

0:19:41.040 --> 0:19:44.360
<v Speaker 5>a hard question. I think the answer is obviously nationwide

0:19:44.440 --> 0:19:47.600
<v Speaker 5>injunctions are perfectly fine. They're the ordinary way of doing

0:19:47.680 --> 0:19:50.280
<v Speaker 5>business in the courts, and people who complain about them

0:19:50.400 --> 0:19:52.600
<v Speaker 5>either don't understand the system or are trying to get

0:19:52.640 --> 0:19:53.760
<v Speaker 5>away with something illegal.

0:19:54.080 --> 0:19:56.399
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. I don't always like that it happened, but I

0:19:56.440 --> 0:20:00.840
<v Speaker 3>can't see what the alternative would be. Somebody pointed out,

0:20:01.359 --> 0:20:03.600
<v Speaker 3>so you're gonna let I guess it was you that

0:20:03.640 --> 0:20:06.280
<v Speaker 3>pointed it out yesterday in Twitter. The idea that so

0:20:06.400 --> 0:20:09.080
<v Speaker 3>every time a president does something, it's got to work

0:20:09.119 --> 0:20:11.359
<v Speaker 3>its way all the way through the courts up to

0:20:11.400 --> 0:20:13.920
<v Speaker 3>the Supreme Court, and then a decision by the Supreme Court.

0:20:14.160 --> 0:20:17.560
<v Speaker 3>Before the Supreme Court might say sometimes nine nothing, you

0:20:17.640 --> 0:20:18.199
<v Speaker 3>can't do that.

0:20:18.920 --> 0:20:22.479
<v Speaker 5>Oh and during that whole period of time, the government

0:20:22.520 --> 0:20:24.040
<v Speaker 5>is still doing the illegal thing.

0:20:23.960 --> 0:20:24.520
<v Speaker 3>Right right?

0:20:25.480 --> 0:20:28.119
<v Speaker 4>Wow, So clearly it's two to one for a judicial

0:20:28.160 --> 0:20:31.639
<v Speaker 4>takeover of the government. But I will stand up for liberty. Uh,

0:20:31.920 --> 0:20:33.920
<v Speaker 4>Is there no middle ground? Has got to be three

0:20:34.000 --> 0:20:37.640
<v Speaker 4>judge panel and not a single Yahoo in a rural Tennessee.

0:20:38.119 --> 0:20:40.600
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, I think I think having a single unit ya

0:20:40.680 --> 0:20:43.280
<v Speaker 5>who in rural Tennessee is perfectly fine, because that's what

0:20:43.320 --> 0:20:46.320
<v Speaker 5>the appellate process is. Sort of, that's why you appeal cases.

0:20:46.400 --> 0:20:48.760
<v Speaker 5>And by the way, that's why you should avoid appointing

0:20:48.840 --> 0:20:53.520
<v Speaker 5>yahoos to the federal bench. Might mention that too. The argument,

0:20:54.119 --> 0:20:57.760
<v Speaker 5>the argument against nation right injunctions always seems to boil

0:20:57.800 --> 0:20:59.920
<v Speaker 5>down to, well, this is a democracy in the major

0:21:00.000 --> 0:21:02.200
<v Speaker 5>I already should always get what it wants. And the

0:21:02.240 --> 0:21:04.560
<v Speaker 5>answer to that is no. What happened to all of

0:21:04.560 --> 0:21:06.520
<v Speaker 5>my friends who used to say, this is a republic,

0:21:06.640 --> 0:21:09.399
<v Speaker 5>not a democracy. The whole point of our system is

0:21:09.440 --> 0:21:12.199
<v Speaker 5>that the majority has to act lawfully, and if it

0:21:12.280 --> 0:21:14.959
<v Speaker 5>acts unlawfully, I can go in front of a judge

0:21:15.160 --> 0:21:17.679
<v Speaker 5>and get that give an order from that judge prohibiting

0:21:17.760 --> 0:21:20.520
<v Speaker 5>the government from violating my rights. And the idea that

0:21:21.160 --> 0:21:23.280
<v Speaker 5>we should do this piece meal, that only a judge

0:21:23.359 --> 0:21:26.200
<v Speaker 5>down here, that his order only applies there. Meanwhile, the

0:21:26.240 --> 0:21:28.600
<v Speaker 5>government can do illegal things to everybody else in the

0:21:28.640 --> 0:21:31.640
<v Speaker 5>country until the case reaches the US Supreme Court makes

0:21:31.680 --> 0:21:32.440
<v Speaker 5>no sense at all.

0:21:33.520 --> 0:21:37.240
<v Speaker 3>The underlying theme here being, folks, that what we really

0:21:37.280 --> 0:21:39.000
<v Speaker 3>need to fear is the power of the government in

0:21:39.040 --> 0:21:41.080
<v Speaker 3>this country. That's kind of the idea of forming it.

0:21:41.320 --> 0:21:46.879
<v Speaker 4>So there's no question that these nationwide injunctions were relatively

0:21:47.160 --> 0:21:50.200
<v Speaker 4>or practically completely unknown for one hundred and fifty years.

0:21:50.200 --> 0:21:52.399
<v Speaker 4>Then there are a handful of them, and the number

0:21:52.440 --> 0:21:54.440
<v Speaker 4>of them is now skyrots every day.

0:21:54.480 --> 0:21:56.320
<v Speaker 3>It seems like on my phone, I see a judge

0:21:56.400 --> 0:21:57.159
<v Speaker 3>jumped in somewhere.

0:21:57.200 --> 0:22:00.239
<v Speaker 5>Actually, right, I actually don't think that that's true. I

0:22:00.280 --> 0:22:02.800
<v Speaker 5>think that what happened was we just started calling them

0:22:02.840 --> 0:22:05.840
<v Speaker 5>by a different name. You know, there were an injunction

0:22:06.400 --> 0:22:10.720
<v Speaker 5>injunctions against unconstitutional government actions since before there was a constitution.

0:22:10.880 --> 0:22:12.320
<v Speaker 5>One of the points that was brought up during the

0:22:12.400 --> 0:22:15.280
<v Speaker 5>arguments was that British judges used to do this before

0:22:15.320 --> 0:22:18.880
<v Speaker 5>the American Revolution, and that was considered perfectly legitimate. It's

0:22:18.960 --> 0:22:21.680
<v Speaker 5>just that nowadays we call the nation right injunctions, or

0:22:21.960 --> 0:22:25.600
<v Speaker 5>we have some judges who write sloppily and don't explain

0:22:25.640 --> 0:22:28.520
<v Speaker 5>what they're actually saying or something. And okay, that's a problem,

0:22:28.600 --> 0:22:31.239
<v Speaker 5>I suppose. But the idea that you should limit the

0:22:31.240 --> 0:22:34.399
<v Speaker 5>injunction power of federal courts is what that is is

0:22:34.440 --> 0:22:38.760
<v Speaker 5>that's open door to the majority violating individual rights on

0:22:38.800 --> 0:22:40.800
<v Speaker 5>a scale that I mean, they already do it, but

0:22:40.920 --> 0:22:42.840
<v Speaker 5>you can imagine what it would be if we took

0:22:42.880 --> 0:22:45.760
<v Speaker 5>away one of the most important protections for individual rights

0:22:45.760 --> 0:22:48.119
<v Speaker 5>in this country, which is getting an injunction from our

0:22:48.119 --> 0:22:51.840
<v Speaker 5>federal court to protect their freedom. And that's insane.

0:22:52.000 --> 0:22:54.040
<v Speaker 3>So I didn't want to get to this part too

0:22:54.080 --> 0:22:56.040
<v Speaker 3>fast because you're a lawyer, and this part can't be

0:22:56.080 --> 0:22:58.200
<v Speaker 3>fixed with the law. It seems to me that we've

0:22:58.240 --> 0:23:03.280
<v Speaker 3>got a cultural problem in that presidents are way more

0:23:03.440 --> 0:23:06.920
<v Speaker 3>likely than they used to be to want to challenge

0:23:06.960 --> 0:23:10.600
<v Speaker 3>the Supreme Court, either to like legitimately they don't think

0:23:10.600 --> 0:23:14.000
<v Speaker 3>the law is correct, or they don't care if they're wrong.

0:23:14.240 --> 0:23:16.320
<v Speaker 3>They just want to get the political credit for trying.

0:23:16.640 --> 0:23:19.720
<v Speaker 3>And perhaps I don't know this, but it seems like

0:23:19.760 --> 0:23:23.359
<v Speaker 3>a likely response. The six hundred some federal judges out there.

0:23:23.400 --> 0:23:24.760
<v Speaker 3>There's a lot more of them who are willing to

0:23:24.840 --> 0:23:27.679
<v Speaker 3>let their politics get ahead of their judge reasoning and

0:23:27.800 --> 0:23:29.240
<v Speaker 3>jump in and stop somebody they hate.

0:23:30.080 --> 0:23:32.600
<v Speaker 5>Yes, you're absolutely right about that, and especially the thing

0:23:32.640 --> 0:23:36.080
<v Speaker 5>about the President and Congress being willing to do things

0:23:36.080 --> 0:23:39.240
<v Speaker 5>that they know are unconstitutional because they know that the

0:23:39.320 --> 0:23:41.560
<v Speaker 5>judges are going to strike it down and they can

0:23:41.680 --> 0:23:44.679
<v Speaker 5>blame the judges and say, oh, those evil activist judges,

0:23:44.960 --> 0:23:47.119
<v Speaker 5>or they can get away with their unconstitutional things. So

0:23:47.160 --> 0:23:49.840
<v Speaker 5>it's win when if you want to do something unconstitutional.

0:23:49.880 --> 0:23:53.560
<v Speaker 5>And honestly, every president's done this to some degree. Obviously

0:23:53.600 --> 0:23:55.760
<v Speaker 5>Franklin Roosevelt did this a lot. But the one that

0:23:55.800 --> 0:23:59.040
<v Speaker 5>I always six in my memory is George W. Bush

0:23:59.119 --> 0:24:03.840
<v Speaker 5>when he signed the McCain fine Gold campaign finance law

0:24:04.080 --> 0:24:06.399
<v Speaker 5>and said when he signed it that he thought it

0:24:06.480 --> 0:24:09.040
<v Speaker 5>was unconstitutional but that he would leave it to the

0:24:09.080 --> 0:24:11.280
<v Speaker 5>courts to deal with. Well, I'm sorry, but if you're

0:24:11.280 --> 0:24:14.320
<v Speaker 5>the president, you take an oath to support and defend

0:24:14.359 --> 0:24:17.320
<v Speaker 5>the constitution of the United States. And if you ignore

0:24:17.359 --> 0:24:20.200
<v Speaker 5>that oath and sign something that you know is unconstitutional

0:24:20.280 --> 0:24:22.000
<v Speaker 5>just because you think the courts will clean up your

0:24:22.040 --> 0:24:23.959
<v Speaker 5>mess for you, I think that's disgraceful.

0:24:24.119 --> 0:24:24.280
<v Speaker 6>Yeah.

0:24:24.280 --> 0:24:25.919
<v Speaker 3>Well, a lot of the pieces I've read that have

0:24:25.960 --> 0:24:28.040
<v Speaker 3>been following the growth of this use that as kind

0:24:28.080 --> 0:24:31.040
<v Speaker 3>of like the patient zero, because he said it out loud,

0:24:31.440 --> 0:24:33.639
<v Speaker 3>and then other presidents thought, hey, I can do that,

0:24:33.720 --> 0:24:36.040
<v Speaker 3>I just won't say it out loud, and Obama did it,

0:24:36.080 --> 0:24:38.080
<v Speaker 3>and Biden did it, and Trump did it in whichever order,

0:24:38.119 --> 0:24:42.080
<v Speaker 3>and then Trump again and and it So how do

0:24:42.119 --> 0:24:42.760
<v Speaker 3>we fix this.

0:24:44.160 --> 0:24:46.359
<v Speaker 5>Well, there's a long answer and the short answer. The

0:24:46.359 --> 0:24:49.800
<v Speaker 5>short answer is elect good presidents. The long answer is

0:24:50.119 --> 0:24:52.879
<v Speaker 5>that we have to restore respect for the Constitution in

0:24:52.920 --> 0:24:56.320
<v Speaker 5>this country. I think it's the long term damage that's

0:24:56.359 --> 0:25:00.919
<v Speaker 5>been done to Americans understanding and appreciation of the Constitution

0:25:01.600 --> 0:25:06.159
<v Speaker 5>is horrifying. We have prominent law professors. There was a

0:25:06.440 --> 0:25:09.640
<v Speaker 5>law professor at at Georgetown Law School a few years

0:25:09.640 --> 0:25:12.159
<v Speaker 5>ago published an article in the Washington Post saying the

0:25:12.240 --> 0:25:14.920
<v Speaker 5>Constitution is obsolete. I don't respect it at all. Well,

0:25:14.920 --> 0:25:17.440
<v Speaker 5>you're a teacher of constitutional law for crying out loud.

0:25:17.760 --> 0:25:20.840
<v Speaker 5>And if we don't respect the Constitution, we don't love it.

0:25:20.840 --> 0:25:23.440
<v Speaker 5>It cannot protect us. The Constitution is just a promise,

0:25:23.640 --> 0:25:25.480
<v Speaker 5>and if we don't honor that promise, then it's not

0:25:25.520 --> 0:25:26.680
<v Speaker 5>worth the paper it's written on.

0:25:27.320 --> 0:25:29.840
<v Speaker 4>We should have written law specifically putting him in jail.

0:25:29.880 --> 0:25:34.560
<v Speaker 4>In my opinion, Tim Sandefer is online from the Goldwater Institute.

0:25:34.840 --> 0:25:38.800
<v Speaker 4>A little constitutional humor for exactly design.

0:25:38.600 --> 0:25:39.720
<v Speaker 3>For punish one man.

0:25:39.880 --> 0:25:44.160
<v Speaker 4>That's a good idea, so you know, blah blah blah,

0:25:44.200 --> 0:25:46.399
<v Speaker 4>disclaimer about it's difficult to read the tea leaves of

0:25:46.440 --> 0:25:49.439
<v Speaker 4>the oral arguments, blah, blah blah. Did it strike you

0:25:49.560 --> 0:25:53.280
<v Speaker 4>that the justices, the sane ones that we like, we're

0:25:53.359 --> 0:25:58.320
<v Speaker 4>leaning in any particular direction as to the nationwide injunctions judges, etc.

0:25:58.600 --> 0:25:59.560
<v Speaker 3>That we've been discussing.

0:26:00.440 --> 0:26:03.360
<v Speaker 5>Some of the judges have made clear for a long

0:26:03.359 --> 0:26:06.879
<v Speaker 5>time that they're against these what they call nationwide injunctions.

0:26:07.000 --> 0:26:10.040
<v Speaker 5>Justice Thomas in particular. Some of the others are a

0:26:10.080 --> 0:26:13.080
<v Speaker 5>little harder to read. Justice Barrett for example, and Justice Roberts,

0:26:13.080 --> 0:26:15.920
<v Speaker 5>who have become really the swing judges on this issue.

0:26:16.040 --> 0:26:16.520
<v Speaker 2>I thought the.

0:26:16.440 --> 0:26:18.480
<v Speaker 5>Most interesting judge if you want to if anybody wants

0:26:18.480 --> 0:26:20.760
<v Speaker 5>to go and listen to the argument online, I thought

0:26:20.840 --> 0:26:23.400
<v Speaker 5>Justice Jackson was the one who is the most interesting.

0:26:23.480 --> 0:26:26.439
<v Speaker 5>She clearly understands how this area of the law works,

0:26:26.680 --> 0:26:30.240
<v Speaker 5>and she rightly says there's no there there that nationwide

0:26:30.280 --> 0:26:33.000
<v Speaker 5>injunctions are perfectly legitimate. They always have been and there's

0:26:33.040 --> 0:26:36.000
<v Speaker 5>no problem. So she'd be the one that I find

0:26:36.000 --> 0:26:37.959
<v Speaker 5>most interesting. But how to predict I think you're going

0:26:38.040 --> 0:26:40.760
<v Speaker 5>to get. I think Justice Roberts and Justice Barrett are

0:26:40.760 --> 0:26:43.520
<v Speaker 5>going to side with the liberals and say we don't

0:26:43.520 --> 0:26:46.320
<v Speaker 5>have a problem per se with nationwide injunctions. But maybe

0:26:46.359 --> 0:26:49.600
<v Speaker 5>some of them aren't very good, but as a as

0:26:49.600 --> 0:26:52.159
<v Speaker 5>a blanket matter, they're okay. And then they're going to

0:26:52.200 --> 0:26:55.160
<v Speaker 5>want to hear the underlying case about birthright citizenship, which

0:26:55.160 --> 0:26:56.720
<v Speaker 5>obviously is a huge deal.

0:26:58.800 --> 0:26:59.000
<v Speaker 2>To me.

0:26:59.560 --> 0:27:02.280
<v Speaker 4>Is it even worth getting into what happened on that

0:27:02.320 --> 0:27:03.640
<v Speaker 4>topic yesterday or do you.

0:27:03.560 --> 0:27:06.480
<v Speaker 5>Think it's Well, they really just talked about whether or

0:27:06.520 --> 0:27:08.679
<v Speaker 5>not they have a legitimate case in the first place,

0:27:08.720 --> 0:27:11.160
<v Speaker 5>and they haven't really briefed it or argued it yet.

0:27:11.200 --> 0:27:13.680
<v Speaker 5>But that's important because in order to get an injunction,

0:27:13.800 --> 0:27:15.320
<v Speaker 5>you kind of have to first show that you have

0:27:15.440 --> 0:27:18.359
<v Speaker 5>even an arguable point to make, and that was what

0:27:18.400 --> 0:27:21.080
<v Speaker 5>they were arguing about. And I will say, I know

0:27:21.160 --> 0:27:23.120
<v Speaker 5>this is talk radio, and we're all supposed to think

0:27:23.160 --> 0:27:25.719
<v Speaker 5>that we clearly have the right answer and everything. I

0:27:25.760 --> 0:27:29.160
<v Speaker 5>think the birthright citizenship question is a very hard question.

0:27:29.400 --> 0:27:31.960
<v Speaker 5>I don't think it's an easy question on either side.

0:27:32.080 --> 0:27:33.720
<v Speaker 3>Let's talk about that when we come back from the

0:27:33.720 --> 0:27:35.680
<v Speaker 3>break hear. I want to hear the arguments on both

0:27:35.680 --> 0:27:39.080
<v Speaker 3>sides of that. That's interesting And clearly you've probably seen

0:27:39.880 --> 0:27:42.680
<v Speaker 3>the breakdown on who speaks the most words the chicks

0:27:42.680 --> 0:27:44.200
<v Speaker 3>talk too much? Is that given?

0:27:45.280 --> 0:27:48.320
<v Speaker 5>Well, Jessin sodomoy are does love cutting off lawyers and

0:27:48.359 --> 0:27:49.720
<v Speaker 5>not letting them answer her question?

0:27:50.280 --> 0:27:52.280
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, the chicks talk too much. I think that's been nice.

0:27:52.440 --> 0:27:54.720
<v Speaker 3>And the new gal talks more than anybody. That shouldn't

0:27:54.720 --> 0:27:56.000
<v Speaker 3>happen in any organization.

0:27:57.240 --> 0:28:06.360
<v Speaker 6>Jack Armstrong and Joe The Armstrong and Getty Show. Jack

0:28:06.520 --> 0:28:11.800
<v Speaker 6>Armstrong and Joe Getty The Armstrong and Getty Shows.

0:28:15.080 --> 0:28:18.080
<v Speaker 4>Discussing the oral arguments before the Supreme Court yesterday with

0:28:18.200 --> 0:28:22.159
<v Speaker 4>Tim Sanderfur, vice president for Legal Affairs at the Goldwater Institute.

0:28:22.600 --> 0:28:28.360
<v Speaker 4>It was advertised as a birthright citizenship hearing it or discussion.

0:28:28.400 --> 0:28:32.160
<v Speaker 4>It really was much more a discussion of individual federal

0:28:32.240 --> 0:28:34.480
<v Speaker 4>judges and nationwide injunctions and that sort of thing. But

0:28:35.160 --> 0:28:40.080
<v Speaker 4>to the question of the Fourteenth Amendment, Tim, you said

0:28:40.080 --> 0:28:43.280
<v Speaker 4>before the break that it's not an easy call. I'm

0:28:43.280 --> 0:28:45.560
<v Speaker 4>glad to hear you agree. I've thought the same thing.

0:28:46.080 --> 0:28:48.160
<v Speaker 4>What should we know about the fourteenth Amendment even come

0:28:48.200 --> 0:28:50.240
<v Speaker 4>to a semi intelligent opinion on this?

0:28:51.200 --> 0:28:53.880
<v Speaker 5>Well, the first sentence of the fourteenth Amendment says, all

0:28:53.920 --> 0:28:57.000
<v Speaker 5>persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject

0:28:57.000 --> 0:29:00.680
<v Speaker 5>to the jurisdiction thereof, are US citizens. And all of

0:29:00.720 --> 0:29:03.400
<v Speaker 5>this case. All of these arguments turn on that phrase

0:29:03.640 --> 0:29:07.320
<v Speaker 5>subject to the jurisdiction thereof. What does that phrase mean.

0:29:08.400 --> 0:29:11.040
<v Speaker 5>It's really tough because the word jurisdiction is one of

0:29:11.040 --> 0:29:13.680
<v Speaker 5>those words that can mean all sorts of different things.

0:29:13.720 --> 0:29:16.840
<v Speaker 5>It basically means power, but there's all sorts of different

0:29:16.880 --> 0:29:19.360
<v Speaker 5>kinds of power, and so that's what the argument turns on.

0:29:20.120 --> 0:29:22.720
<v Speaker 5>Some people think that it means you have to follow

0:29:22.760 --> 0:29:24.400
<v Speaker 5>the law. If you're born here and you have to

0:29:24.400 --> 0:29:27.400
<v Speaker 5>follow the law, then you're subject to the jurisdiction thereof,

0:29:27.400 --> 0:29:30.160
<v Speaker 5>and then that means you're a citizen. But that doesn't

0:29:30.160 --> 0:29:32.480
<v Speaker 5>really make a lot of sense because even foreign tourists

0:29:32.520 --> 0:29:34.840
<v Speaker 5>who come here for a vacation have to follow the law.

0:29:34.840 --> 0:29:36.200
<v Speaker 5>I mean, they have to stop at the red lights

0:29:36.240 --> 0:29:38.840
<v Speaker 5>and they can't steal things, So that can't be what

0:29:38.880 --> 0:29:43.920
<v Speaker 5>that means, right. Instead, the other side argues, jurisdiction thereof

0:29:44.000 --> 0:29:48.920
<v Speaker 5>means some kind of loyalty or allegiance, that there's citizenship

0:29:49.120 --> 0:29:54.000
<v Speaker 5>jurisdiction as opposed to follow the law jurisdiction, and that difference.

0:29:54.080 --> 0:29:56.640
<v Speaker 5>You can see that difference for example, in this if

0:29:56.640 --> 0:29:59.400
<v Speaker 5>you're a foreign spy, now you sneak into the country

0:29:59.440 --> 0:30:01.200
<v Speaker 5>and you spy for some foreign country and you get

0:30:01.200 --> 0:30:04.920
<v Speaker 5>it arrested, you can be prosecuted for espionage, but you

0:30:05.040 --> 0:30:09.160
<v Speaker 5>cannot be prosecuted for treason. Why because you're not a

0:30:09.240 --> 0:30:12.240
<v Speaker 5>US citizen and you don't owe loyalty to the US,

0:30:12.280 --> 0:30:15.920
<v Speaker 5>so you cannot commit treason against the US. And so

0:30:16.040 --> 0:30:19.000
<v Speaker 5>there's two different kinds of jurisdiction, is the argument. And

0:30:19.080 --> 0:30:22.320
<v Speaker 5>so those who are against birthright citizenships say, subject to

0:30:22.360 --> 0:30:25.560
<v Speaker 5>the jurisdiction thereof means that your parents owed loyalty to

0:30:25.680 --> 0:30:29.080
<v Speaker 5>the United States as opposed to some foreign country, and

0:30:29.120 --> 0:30:31.160
<v Speaker 5>that would mean that illegal aliens, if they have a

0:30:31.240 --> 0:30:33.160
<v Speaker 5>child here, that child is not a citizen in the

0:30:33.240 --> 0:30:36.400
<v Speaker 5>United States. Now, that's also there's a problem with that.

0:30:36.520 --> 0:30:38.360
<v Speaker 5>There's a couple problems that. One of the problems with

0:30:38.400 --> 0:30:40.840
<v Speaker 5>that argument is that nobody has ever said that that's

0:30:40.840 --> 0:30:43.120
<v Speaker 5>what it means. In the one hundred and fifty years

0:30:43.160 --> 0:30:46.280
<v Speaker 5>since this has been in the Constitution, everybody has active

0:30:46.440 --> 0:30:49.000
<v Speaker 5>like if you're born here, you're a citizen all of

0:30:49.040 --> 0:30:52.200
<v Speaker 5>that time. And so suddenly discovering that we're at it

0:30:52.240 --> 0:30:54.280
<v Speaker 5>turns out that we've been misreading the Constitution for one

0:30:54.360 --> 0:30:59.440
<v Speaker 5>hundred and fifty years would be a huge, enormously radical

0:30:59.440 --> 0:31:03.760
<v Speaker 5>transformation and how our system works. That would cause tremendous

0:31:03.800 --> 0:31:07.160
<v Speaker 5>disruption nationwide, and that would be a real problem. But

0:31:07.360 --> 0:31:10.120
<v Speaker 5>all of this, the real problem here in answering this

0:31:10.200 --> 0:31:12.880
<v Speaker 5>question is that when the Amendment was adopted, there were

0:31:12.920 --> 0:31:15.360
<v Speaker 5>no such things as illegal aliens because there were no

0:31:15.520 --> 0:31:19.400
<v Speaker 5>laws against immigration. And that means if you're an originalist

0:31:19.440 --> 0:31:21.720
<v Speaker 5>and you think the competition should be understood the way

0:31:21.760 --> 0:31:24.920
<v Speaker 5>it was originally intended, the framers didn't ever think about

0:31:24.960 --> 0:31:27.160
<v Speaker 5>this because it wasn't against the law back then. So

0:31:27.240 --> 0:31:28.800
<v Speaker 5>we don't know what they would have thought about this

0:31:28.880 --> 0:31:29.760
<v Speaker 5>question right.

0:31:29.680 --> 0:31:33.520
<v Speaker 4>Right Well, at the point that this enormously radical, disruptive

0:31:34.200 --> 0:31:37.280
<v Speaker 4>president is overturned, that's when you tag me and Tim

0:31:37.320 --> 0:31:39.680
<v Speaker 4>and I come in and explain to the good folks

0:31:40.040 --> 0:31:45.520
<v Speaker 4>that look, the nature of global transportation, the movement of

0:31:45.600 --> 0:31:49.400
<v Speaker 4>people or peoples from one place to another has changed

0:31:49.520 --> 0:31:50.400
<v Speaker 4>so vastly.

0:31:50.560 --> 0:31:53.560
<v Speaker 3>God, Joe's a living constitution guy. You can hear it coming.

0:31:53.360 --> 0:31:57.960
<v Speaker 4>Out of what No, don't you dare know that the

0:31:58.120 --> 0:32:01.840
<v Speaker 4>very nature of cummings and goings from countries has been

0:32:01.920 --> 0:32:06.720
<v Speaker 4>so radically transformed. A Chinese national with not the slightest

0:32:06.760 --> 0:32:10.480
<v Speaker 4>notion of making life in the United States. Can can

0:32:11.560 --> 0:32:16.440
<v Speaker 4>depart China, arrive here, give birth, go back to China,

0:32:16.520 --> 0:32:19.120
<v Speaker 4>all in the span of seventy two hours. I'm inducing

0:32:19.200 --> 0:32:23.040
<v Speaker 4>labor in this case, or getting very lucky, and that

0:32:23.160 --> 0:32:28.080
<v Speaker 4>child had citizenship. That's an eventuality unimaginable back in the day.

0:32:28.280 --> 0:32:28.720
<v Speaker 3>Is the kids?

0:32:29.040 --> 0:32:31.360
<v Speaker 5>I think so? And that's sort of true. But on

0:32:31.400 --> 0:32:33.880
<v Speaker 5>the other hand, the Chinese question came up back then

0:32:34.120 --> 0:32:36.680
<v Speaker 5>because there were so many Chinese in California in the

0:32:36.680 --> 0:32:39.520
<v Speaker 5>eighteen sixties. And Senator's rast, well, isn't this going to

0:32:39.600 --> 0:32:42.720
<v Speaker 5>make the children of the Chinese immigrants who back then

0:32:42.800 --> 0:32:44.520
<v Speaker 5>did not intend to scy in the United States. They

0:32:44.560 --> 0:32:47.040
<v Speaker 5>intended to go back to China. The senator's rest, does

0:32:47.080 --> 0:32:50.280
<v Speaker 5>this make their kids us? Senator US citizens? And the

0:32:50.320 --> 0:32:53.720
<v Speaker 5>Senator from California said yes, and then he was immediately

0:32:53.760 --> 0:32:55.680
<v Speaker 5>thrown out of office. So what does that mean?

0:32:56.200 --> 0:32:58.959
<v Speaker 4>Nobody knows what that means a single case from eighteen

0:32:59.080 --> 0:33:01.960
<v Speaker 4>ninety eight, or is there more precedent?

0:33:02.040 --> 0:33:05.080
<v Speaker 5>Really there really isn't. There's really just a handful of

0:33:05.120 --> 0:33:08.120
<v Speaker 5>presidents and no Supreme Court case has ever said that

0:33:08.240 --> 0:33:11.400
<v Speaker 5>birthright citizenship is the is in the Constitution. There have

0:33:11.440 --> 0:33:13.640
<v Speaker 5>been some that have kind of mentioned it or kind

0:33:13.640 --> 0:33:15.600
<v Speaker 5>of assumed it, but none has said so outright.

0:33:15.880 --> 0:33:18.240
<v Speaker 3>I am surprised. The polling shows that only about a

0:33:18.400 --> 0:33:20.720
<v Speaker 3>third of Americans want to do away with the way

0:33:20.720 --> 0:33:23.000
<v Speaker 3>we do it now. I'm surprised by that. I do

0:33:23.040 --> 0:33:25.000
<v Speaker 3>want to get to this. This is a journalistic question,

0:33:25.040 --> 0:33:27.120
<v Speaker 3>but I think it has an effect on people's respect

0:33:27.200 --> 0:33:29.840
<v Speaker 3>for the law. It has come up recently. It has

0:33:29.880 --> 0:33:33.280
<v Speaker 3>become a pattern that anytime the media mentions a judge,

0:33:33.960 --> 0:33:37.400
<v Speaker 3>they mentioned what president appointed them. Do you think that's

0:33:37.400 --> 0:33:40.080
<v Speaker 3>a good idea or not? They didn't just barely got

0:33:40.120 --> 0:33:40.720
<v Speaker 3>a minute.

0:33:41.360 --> 0:33:43.840
<v Speaker 5>I think it's fine. I think people should know where

0:33:43.840 --> 0:33:46.200
<v Speaker 5>these For instance, I think it would help a lot

0:33:46.200 --> 0:33:49.080
<v Speaker 5>of judges. You know, a lot of Republican appointed judges

0:33:49.120 --> 0:33:51.800
<v Speaker 5>have been ruling against the Trump administration, and I think

0:33:51.840 --> 0:33:54.520
<v Speaker 5>it would be helpful for people to know that these

0:33:54.560 --> 0:33:56.920
<v Speaker 5>questions are not things where it's all partisan. The law

0:33:57.040 --> 0:33:59.680
<v Speaker 5>is not just partisan politics. It's something much more profound

0:33:59.680 --> 0:34:00.560
<v Speaker 5>and much more important.

0:34:00.880 --> 0:34:04.760
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, well, I agree, but it implies that judge I

0:34:04.760 --> 0:34:05.040
<v Speaker 3>don't know.

0:34:05.720 --> 0:34:05.960
<v Speaker 2>True.

0:34:06.000 --> 0:34:08.439
<v Speaker 3>I used to think I didn't used to think about

0:34:08.480 --> 0:34:10.399
<v Speaker 3>it ever. If a judge ruled. I just thought, well,

0:34:10.400 --> 0:34:13.120
<v Speaker 3>that's interesting. Now it's all who appointed him. Oh, of

0:34:13.160 --> 0:34:14.080
<v Speaker 3>course he said.

0:34:13.880 --> 0:34:17.000
<v Speaker 5>That that is true. That is a risk. But I

0:34:17.480 --> 0:34:20.120
<v Speaker 5>think we should air on the side of informing people

0:34:20.520 --> 0:34:22.439
<v Speaker 5>as opposed to keeping people in the dark.

0:34:22.560 --> 0:34:24.440
<v Speaker 3>So that's that's true.

0:34:24.680 --> 0:34:27.759
<v Speaker 4>Tim Stander for the Goldwater Institute on the line, Tim,

0:34:27.800 --> 0:34:29.600
<v Speaker 4>final question, I've called for a monarchy.

0:34:29.800 --> 0:34:31.880
<v Speaker 3>You in favor of it? Yes or no?

0:34:31.880 --> 0:34:34.319
<v Speaker 5>No, I'm against him monarchy. I'm for the constitution.

0:34:34.480 --> 0:34:37.279
<v Speaker 3>Joe. One more question. As a published poet, I was

0:34:37.320 --> 0:34:39.560
<v Speaker 3>thinking about this yesterday he won the Nobel Prize. Bob

0:34:39.640 --> 0:34:42.080
<v Speaker 3>Dylan good poet or not lousy poet?

0:34:42.120 --> 0:34:44.920
<v Speaker 5>Now read Robert Hayden or Richard Wilbur instead.

0:34:46.239 --> 0:34:51.919
<v Speaker 3>How about Ringo Star Octopus's Garden, Tam. It's always great

0:34:51.960 --> 0:34:54.359
<v Speaker 3>and enlightening. Thanks Millian for the time. Let's talk again soon.

0:34:54.600 --> 0:34:55.240
<v Speaker 2>Thanks guys.

0:34:55.840 --> 0:34:58.560
<v Speaker 3>All right, I was actually thinking about this listening to

0:34:58.840 --> 0:35:02.759
<v Speaker 3>Dylan lyrics. Why do they stick in everybody's head so much?

0:35:02.800 --> 0:35:04.759
<v Speaker 3>Why do people keep going back to them? If it's

0:35:04.880 --> 0:35:09.920
<v Speaker 3>just gobbledegook, like a lot of real poets claim, it

0:35:10.000 --> 0:35:12.520
<v Speaker 3>can't be. It wouldn't lodge, it wouldn't it wouldn't make

0:35:12.560 --> 0:35:15.120
<v Speaker 3>the market made, would it all right?

0:35:15.600 --> 0:35:19.560
<v Speaker 4>He was famously moody about his career and his music

0:35:19.760 --> 0:35:22.240
<v Speaker 4>in his Life's Philosophy. I think some of his stuff

0:35:22.280 --> 0:35:25.840
<v Speaker 4>is absolutely brilliant, and I think some of it's gobbledegook humhm.

0:35:26.280 --> 0:35:29.120
<v Speaker 3>Maybe maybe more on that another day, or maybe not.

0:35:29.560 --> 0:35:31.879
<v Speaker 3>We got plenty of stuff to tell you. I hope

0:35:31.880 --> 0:35:33.399
<v Speaker 3>you can stick around if you missus. Sigmund I thought

0:35:33.400 --> 0:35:34.879
<v Speaker 3>that tim thing was really really good and you want

0:35:34.880 --> 0:35:36.880
<v Speaker 3>to listen to it again and get the podcast Armstrong

0:35:36.880 --> 0:35:43.840
<v Speaker 3>and Getty on demand. Armstrong, arms Strong and Geeddy on demand.

0:35:44.480 --> 0:35:46.480
<v Speaker 3>We're not boring. A lot of news is boring and

0:35:46.640 --> 0:35:49.719
<v Speaker 3>tedious and depressing. It makes you angry. You don't want

0:35:49.719 --> 0:35:52.480
<v Speaker 3>to live your life like that. Hey, I'm Jack Armstrong,

0:35:52.520 --> 0:35:54.680
<v Speaker 3>He's Joe Getty. We're Armstrong in Getty. We try to

0:35:54.680 --> 0:35:56.440
<v Speaker 3>bring you the truth and help you figure out this

0:35:56.600 --> 0:36:02.680
<v Speaker 3>crazy modern world. About something about a comedic tone. We

0:36:02.800 --> 0:36:05.920
<v Speaker 3>have a one ore. Yes, listen to Armstrong. You get

0:36:05.960 --> 0:36:08.719
<v Speaker 3>it on demand on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcast