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Speaker 1: This is the Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous podcast

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Speaker 1: with iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Welcome the Almost Famous podcast.

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Speaker 3: We are here today with author Madison Pruitt Trout to

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Speaker 3: talk about Dare to Be True.

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Speaker 2: Mattie, Can we call you Maddie?

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Speaker 4: Absolutely?

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Speaker 2: Do you go by Madison or Maddie now?

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Speaker 5: Well, you know, like professionally, it's like Madison, you know,

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Speaker 5: the name I was born with. But then I feel

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Speaker 5: like all my friends and everyone just calls you Maddie.

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Speaker 5: And because my social media is Maddie, I feel like

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Speaker 5: it's just it's Maddie.

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Speaker 3: Now, Okay, We're gonna call you Maddie because I feel

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Speaker 3: like Madison just wouldn't come off.

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Speaker 2: I would just call you Maddie. I think that's how

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Speaker 2: I refer to you in my life. Maddie. This is what?

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Speaker 2: Is this your third book?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: This is book number three? Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Crazy, Like when it can have been that long ago,

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Speaker 3: it feels like you're pumping out a book a year.

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Speaker 2: Is this the plan?

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Speaker 4: This was not the plan.

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Speaker 5: Honestly, I have had this message on my heart for

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Speaker 5: a long time and kind of tried to run from

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Speaker 5: it for a while and woke up in the middle

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Speaker 5: of the night and felt like the Lord was like,

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Speaker 5: you need to write a book on truth, and I'm like,

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Speaker 5: I don't know how to do that, and that feels scary,

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Speaker 5: and I don't even know where to start. And it

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Speaker 5: was a really hard Out of all three books that

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Speaker 5: I've written, this was by far the hardest, and I

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Speaker 5: tried to.

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Speaker 4: Quit multiple times.

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Speaker 5: But I really do believe that this message can truly

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Speaker 5: change people's lives, and it's changed my life.

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Speaker 4: So I'm really excited.

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Speaker 5: This is probably the most like passionate and excited I've

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Speaker 5: been about a project in a book that I've that

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Speaker 5: I've done.

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Speaker 6: Your last book, the demographic was kind of like for

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Speaker 6: the single girl, you said, we really could apply to anyone,

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Speaker 6: but you know, like really about those looking for love?

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Speaker 2: Who should pick up this book?

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Speaker 4: Honestly everybody.

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Speaker 5: I do feel like this is a message no matter

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Speaker 5: where you're at on your faith journey and whether you're

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Speaker 5: asking the question like what is truth and what is

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Speaker 5: true about me?

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Speaker 4: And what is true about God?

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Speaker 5: And what's true about eternity and life and all those things,

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Speaker 5: or whether you're just finding yourself in a place of

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Speaker 5: believing lies in your own mind about yourself. You don't

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Speaker 5: know what to believe about why you're here and what

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Speaker 5: you were put on this earth to do, or whether

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Speaker 5: you're feeling hopeless with all of the opinions and media

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Speaker 5: outlet news things that are being spewed your way, and

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Speaker 5: you're just confused by all the messages out there, and

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Speaker 5: you're just like, I don't know what to believe.

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Speaker 4: I don't know what's real with.

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Speaker 5: All the ai, with all of the news outlets, like

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Speaker 5: I don't know what to believe. It can just feel

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Speaker 5: super overwhelming, and we can feel really really bound in

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Speaker 5: our minds, not only by what's happening around us, but

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Speaker 5: also what's happening in our own hearts and minds.

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Speaker 4: And so I do I think this book is really.

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Speaker 5: For everybody, no matter your age, no matter where you're

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Speaker 5: at with your faith. I think this is a message

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Speaker 5: you never really graduate from. I honestly wrote it from

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Speaker 5: a super vulnerable place, and I even have to go

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Speaker 5: back to it and remind myself of the truth when

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Speaker 5: I wake up on certain days and start believing lies.

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Speaker 5: And so it's a message that even honestly like I

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Speaker 5: have to live out every day.

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Speaker 3: So we do get to talk about this amazing book,

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Speaker 3: but we also are going to bring up some recent

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Speaker 3: headlines as we google the name Madison Pruitt Trout that

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Speaker 3: have come up, and I think it's only appropriate for

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Speaker 3: the people that we'll be picking up this book. And

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Speaker 3: I do agree that those who are wanting to live

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Speaker 3: in truth and to learn from you probably could get

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Speaker 3: the opportunity to have an explanation and a little more

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Speaker 3: insight into it. It's really what I want to do

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Speaker 3: for an hour. I just want to talk to you

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Speaker 3: about your life. You're doing a lot of good things,

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Speaker 3: a lot of really cool things, and recently you've made

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Speaker 3: headlines and goodness, gracious, kid, I've learned a lot.

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Speaker 6: About you, Maddie. Before he goes there, when you hear

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Speaker 6: him introduce this, like does your heart drop? Do you

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Speaker 6: feel awkward and you're like, oh, here we go? Or

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Speaker 6: are you like I put it out there, I am

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Speaker 6: ready to talk.

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Speaker 4: I think it's one of those things that it's so funny.

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Speaker 4: I forget.

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Speaker 5: And I don't know if this happens to you guys,

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Speaker 5: but I like genuinely forget, Like I just share what

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Speaker 5: I'm going through, what's on my heart, and talk in

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Speaker 5: such a way that it just feels like it's such

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Speaker 5: a safe space, you know, and then things just get

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Speaker 5: taken out of context or someone takes something and runs

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Speaker 5: with it, and then next thing I know, I'm on

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Speaker 5: People Magazine, E News and US Weekly and I'm just like, oh, well,

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Speaker 5: what happened?

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Speaker 2: What I say?

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Speaker 6: No, I wish I could read that free. I wish

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Speaker 6: I could feel that free where here? Like could that

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Speaker 6: be interpreted like that? Should we cut that little part out?

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Speaker 4: Well? I truly I don't know.

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Speaker 5: I think too because my audience is so like Faith World,

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Speaker 5: and I do so much ministry and that really is

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Speaker 5: so much of like.

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Speaker 4: My life now.

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Speaker 5: I kind of like forget about like Bachelor World a

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Speaker 5: little bit. And it's funny how sometimes I get just

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Speaker 5: thrown right back in with just you know, something something random.

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Speaker 4: So it is it.

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Speaker 5: Definitely triggers, Like I think there's moments where I get

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Speaker 5: like retriggered, and you know, I'm like, wow, it's really

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Speaker 5: really hard being misunderstood like that is for sure the

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Speaker 5: feeling and really really sad by when people you know

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Speaker 5: don't understand I guess your heart or like if if

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Speaker 5: I say something in a way that was just not

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Speaker 5: the way in which I meant it, and then I

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Speaker 5: feel really bad and I'm like, wait, I want to

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Speaker 5: explain pain, but then I don't want to seem like

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Speaker 5: I'm like, so it's it triggers a lot of feelings,

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Speaker 5: for sure.

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Speaker 3: There's there's a deep dive we can go into into

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Speaker 3: those moments of who do you lean on and how

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Speaker 3: do you process it? And when do you choose to

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Speaker 3: speak out up or when do you just choose to

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Speaker 3: let the noise die down. I think that's a very

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Speaker 3: interesting thing for kind of us who live in that

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Speaker 3: world to understand. I don't know if the listeners always

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Speaker 3: love to hear, you know, a bunch of people with

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Speaker 3: a following and a platform talk about, you know, the

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Speaker 3: issues with saying something publicly, because I think we do

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Speaker 3: have a responsibility here and I want you to have

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Speaker 3: the opportunity to explain yourself or to elaborate on some

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Speaker 3: of these The big headline here recently is that you

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Speaker 3: and Grant, and I really wanted to hear from Grant

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Speaker 3: on this too. Talked about your intentions for kind of

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Speaker 3: punishment or how you're going to guide your daughter, who's

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Speaker 3: beautiful and about the same age as Whinny.

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Speaker 2: By the way.

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Speaker 3: In life and it was talked about spanking. Spanking was

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Speaker 3: a big thing here. I would love to understand the

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Speaker 3: context for this, how you handled the pushback and criticism.

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Speaker 3: I also know you have such a huge heart for

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Speaker 3: evangelism and for bringing people to a faith in Jesus,

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Speaker 3: and so I imagine and I'm not going to make assumptions here.

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Speaker 3: You can tell me if I'm wrong, But I just

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Speaker 3: know you well enough to know your heart that you

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Speaker 3: want people from the outside who maybe don't have a

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Speaker 3: similar faith system to you or a faith tradition to you,

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Speaker 3: to hear things from you and be guided into your

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Speaker 3: world and maybe not be pushed away from it. And

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Speaker 3: so I'm sure these are tough moments for you, not

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Speaker 3: only because of your heart but professionally. So we got

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Speaker 3: a moment here. I love to hear anything you want

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Speaker 3: to share.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, I think before every podcast that I record,

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Speaker 5: like Grant and I just take a moment and we

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Speaker 5: just hit our knees and we pray, and we're like,

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Speaker 5: we don't want to do any of this to bring

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Speaker 5: people to us. We want to do everything that we

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Speaker 5: do and everything that we say to bring people to God.

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Speaker 5: And I you know, my book is called Dare to

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Speaker 5: Be True. My podcast is called Stay True, like really

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Speaker 5: wholeheartedly feeling I feel led to speak the truth, and

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Speaker 5: sometimes that's the really hard truth and the things that

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Speaker 5: I think a lot of people may shy away from,

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Speaker 5: or you know that causes rise in people, or that

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Speaker 5: people you know strongly disagree with. And so there's been

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Speaker 5: lots of little things here and there. Of course, in

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Speaker 5: the last like probably a few months, there's been really

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Speaker 5: big headliners, which is it was like back to back weeks.

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Speaker 5: I was like, you guys, I need a break. I

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Speaker 5: just need a second, a second to catch up. But

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Speaker 5: I'm also you know, I'm.

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Speaker 4: Not I'm not surprised by it.

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Speaker 5: I think in one case, there's situations where I take

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Speaker 5: a stand for something that's true and something that's biblical,

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Speaker 5: and the Bible is clear that there will be persecution

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Speaker 5: and pushback and people who don't understand, and I understand

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Speaker 5: that aspect of it. And then I think that there's

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Speaker 5: another side to things where there's moments where I learn

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Speaker 5: and I'm like, wow, I said that in a way,

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Speaker 5: or you know, Grant said that in a way that

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Speaker 5: wasn't how we intended for to come across and that

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Speaker 5: wasn't what we intended for it to feel like. And

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Speaker 5: you know, in the context of that particular podcast, we

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Speaker 5: did a whole podcast on God's discipline and just how

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Speaker 5: you know, Biblically, it talks about in scripture how God

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Speaker 5: disciplines those that he loves and what is God's discipline

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Speaker 5: and how do you know if you're being disciplined by God?

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Speaker 5: You know, this podcast was recorded like two or three

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Speaker 5: months before it came out, like and so then when

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Speaker 5: it came out, we were just like so surprised, I think,

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Speaker 5: and taken back about the response and reaction to it.

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Speaker 5: And when we went back and watched the part that

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Speaker 5: got taken you know, I will say a little out

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Speaker 5: of context of what went viral. We I think we're

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Speaker 5: just really really saddened and it was really hard. Like

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Speaker 5: we we've spent I mean still to this day the

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Speaker 5: last two months we haven't spoken about it publicly and

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Speaker 5: just have spent the last couple of months just praying

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Speaker 5: and bringing our community into it and really wrestling and

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Speaker 5: taking it before the Lord of just like you know,

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Speaker 5: where how can we learn from this?

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Speaker 4: How can we grow from this?

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Speaker 5: And I think we we have a desire to bring on,

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Speaker 5: you know, a couple of professionals in this space to

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Speaker 5: just like talk about it openly and just learn. You know,

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Speaker 5: we kind of spoke from a place of like our

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Speaker 5: daughters seven months old, we have not even had to

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Speaker 5: have this conversation yet about you know, what we're going

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Speaker 5: to do whenever she you know, says no and yells

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Speaker 5: in mommy's face, Like, we haven't had to have this

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Speaker 5: moment of like what are we going to do? Like

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Speaker 5: she hasn't even spoken her first word yet, and so

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Speaker 5: I think we just were kind of speaking flippantly and

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Speaker 5: really yeah, walked away from that where we were like, wow,

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Speaker 5: we need to be really careful with how things come

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Speaker 5: across and with how we say things. But yeah, just

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Speaker 5: been taking this time to really like process through it

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Speaker 5: and pray through it and then also learns like, yeah, wow,

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Speaker 5: things can get taken out of context, and that was

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Speaker 5: definitely not our heart behind it. Our heart is like

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Speaker 5: you said, Ben, I mean for everybody to come to

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Speaker 5: say a true podcast, they hear the gospel presentation, they

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Speaker 5: hear the truth, and they feel welcomed wherever they're at

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Speaker 5: on their faith journey, and they're not feeling judged or

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Speaker 5: they're not wanting to run from it or be resistant

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Speaker 5: to it, but that they feel invited and like they

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Speaker 5: can come and be a part of it and hopefully

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Speaker 5: grow from it.

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Speaker 4: So we're learning just like everybody else.

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Speaker 5: And like you said, you know a lot of times

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Speaker 5: we say things and it's like in a public way.

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Speaker 5: You just like people make these comments all the time.

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Speaker 5: But then when you do it in a public way

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Speaker 5: and people take it out of context, it's just like okay,

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Speaker 5: like wow, this is.

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Speaker 4: I'm just learning. We're all learning and we're growing and.

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Speaker 5: That's what great and I are just trying to do

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Speaker 5: just ask God, like how can we learn and grow

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Speaker 5: from this? And how do you want to make good

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Speaker 5: of all this?

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Speaker 3: This is going to come back to Dare to be True.

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Speaker 3: It's interesting. I was just at a Christian leadership conference

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Speaker 3: in Chicago.

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Speaker 2: It's a bunch of young people.

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Speaker 3: It's an incredible little conference led by two people that

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Speaker 3: I think you know. And one of the conversations that

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Speaker 3: I found so interesting that came up. We did a

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Speaker 3: bunch of breakouts that I think is going to become

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Speaker 3: a very influential topic within the Christian Church is accountability,

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Speaker 3: because there's a reason we have a bajillion different denominations.

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Speaker 3: There's a reason why there's a million people of faith,

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Speaker 3: all believing different things. You and I sit here as

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Speaker 3: people who follow Jesus Ashley as well, and we would

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Speaker 3: not agree on some of the core elements that we

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Speaker 3: find to be so vital to our faith. We wouldn't

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Speaker 3: and that's just the truth of the Christian tradition. It's

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Speaker 3: never been unanimous. And so one of the ways that

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Speaker 3: we work through that is having brothers and sisters and

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Speaker 3: people that we believe in hold us accountable and allow

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Speaker 3: us to bounce ideas off of I think it is

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Speaker 3: a way to come to truth is to allow God

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Speaker 3: to speak through others.

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Speaker 2: And allow us to be open to learning.

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Speaker 3: And So, as you wrote this book, and as you've

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Speaker 3: entered in a marriage and parenthood, how has your relationship

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Speaker 3: with truth changed and grown? And where do you lean

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Speaker 3: on for truth? Because here's the truth, Mattie, I've been there,

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Speaker 3: I've done it. You say something publicly that you feel

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Speaker 3: so strongly about. In ten years, I've looked back on

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Speaker 3: things and I put my head in the pill.

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Speaker 2: I'm like, why were you so dumb?

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Speaker 3: Why were you so confident in that it isn't the

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Speaker 3: way things work out. I look back on my middle

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Speaker 3: school purity movement that didn't work out the way I

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Speaker 3: thought it was going to. And so there's just this

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Speaker 3: process of learning and changing that I think is so

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Speaker 3: interesting and I want to hear your perspective on it.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, I think I'll take it first with

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Speaker 5: truth and then kind of end with like accountability in people.

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Speaker 5: But I think, you know, you look at even in Scripture,

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Speaker 5: in John chapter eighteen, you see this conversation between this

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Speaker 5: Roman governor and Jesus, and he asked Jesus and John eighteen,

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Speaker 5: he says, Hey, what is truth? And I just see

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Speaker 5: that question being asked in our generation today and so

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Speaker 5: many people searching for the answer to that question of

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Speaker 5: what is truth? And I know for my own life, like,

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Speaker 5: there's been a lot of different seasons where I've tried

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Speaker 5: to place that in a lot of different things to

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Speaker 5: search for the meaning of truth or to find my

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Speaker 5: truth or a truth. And there's this kind of like

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Speaker 5: this juxtaposition moment in Scripture and Proverbs, and in John

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Speaker 5: chapter fourteen where there's this one verse in Proverbs where

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Speaker 5: it says there's a way that appears to be right,

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Speaker 5: but in the end it leads to death. And then

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Speaker 5: Jesus says in John fourteen six, I am the Way,

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Speaker 5: the Truth and the Life. And so there's a lot

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Speaker 5: of truths, there are a lot of ways. But what

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Speaker 5: I believe is that when Jesus says he is the Truth,

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Speaker 5: that there is only one truth, and there's only one

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Speaker 5: truth that leads to life and life eternal. I think

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Speaker 5: we live in a time where there's a lot of

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Speaker 5: confusion around truth and what is truth, and everyone has

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Speaker 5: like their truth, which is why I really felt led

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Speaker 5: to write this book, and I do I think to

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Speaker 5: what you're saying, Ben, it's so important when I mean,

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Speaker 5: we were not made to go through this life alone,

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Speaker 5: and so I mean wherever you're at in your faith journey,

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Speaker 5: but especially as believers like staying true and daring to

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Speaker 5: be true, it requires having people who believe that around

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Speaker 5: you to hold you accountable to that, to push.

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Speaker 4: You closer to that.

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Speaker 5: And so that's a huge part of I mean a

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Speaker 5: huge part of my life, a huge part of mine

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Speaker 5: ignorance life is having those people that aren't afraid to

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Speaker 5: call us out, call us high or lead us to

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Speaker 5: the truth, Remind us of the truth, encourage us with

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Speaker 5: the truth, pray for us. And I mean even to

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Speaker 5: what we were just talking about with the podcast stuff.

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Speaker 5: I mean, there's been moments even a couple of weeks ago,

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Speaker 5: where we came to our community group and we just

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Speaker 5: sat down together and we were like, hey, guys, this

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Speaker 5: is what's going on. We love, we would love your

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Speaker 5: wise counsel and your wisdom and your prayers, and we

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Speaker 5: just talked about it. We cried together, we prayed together,

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Speaker 5: we opened up the Word of God together.

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Speaker 4: And I think that when.

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Speaker 5: You build your life on true that you've got in

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Speaker 5: Matthew seven, when you build your life on the rock

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Speaker 5: of Jesus Christ, like even when storms come and you

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Speaker 5: get knocked you know, people try to knock you down,

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Speaker 5: or things happen that are out of your control, or

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Speaker 5: things are going on around you that feel hopeless and hard,

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Speaker 5: when you have your life built on the rock, like

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Speaker 5: you're not going to come crashing down. And there's another

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Speaker 5: you know example that it gives in Matthew seven of

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Speaker 5: the person who builds on the sand, and you know

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Speaker 5: that person is called the foolish builder. Because when you

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Speaker 5: build your life on something that's as flimsy as you know,

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Speaker 5: my truth, that's up to my feelings and that's up

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Speaker 5: to my you know, experiences, and not on something that's

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Speaker 5: concrete and short and everlasting. That and when I start

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Speaker 5: getting attacked by people, when I start getting things going

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Speaker 5: on around me or lies being fed to my mind,

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Speaker 5: like I'm crashing down because now all of a sudden,

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Speaker 5: I'm questioning everything. And so for me, having like Jesus

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Speaker 5: as my anchor, my foundation, my truth, my security is

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Speaker 5: truly everything, so that no matter what's going on, whether

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Speaker 5: it's things in the world like shootings and stabbings and

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Speaker 5: things that feel just so just depressing and hopeless and

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Speaker 5: sad and scary, or whether it's just my own mind

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Speaker 5: and feeling and trusive thoughts are binding things in my

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Speaker 5: own mind, Like I've got to have a foundation of

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Speaker 5: truth that I can rely on and lean on no

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Speaker 5: matter what, and then having those friends remind me of

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Speaker 5: that and hold me accountable so that when I'm believing

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Speaker 5: a lie, I'm like, hey, can I can I tell

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Speaker 5: you that I'm believing a lie right now? And can

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Speaker 5: you just remind me of what's true? Because I'm honestly

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Speaker 5: just I'm confused, Maddie.

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Speaker 6: When I'm watching the clip of you guys talking about spanking,

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Speaker 6: I watch it and I see your point of view,

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Speaker 6: and I go, that is so like it's whatever anybody choose,

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Speaker 6: Like that's how she wants to do it, the zo

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Speaker 6: I want to do it totally respect either decision in parenting.

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Speaker 2: I think that what people mostly.

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Speaker 6: Had an issue with was was the way Grant seemed

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Speaker 6: a little bit excited about it. How did you how

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Speaker 6: did you guys navigate that together as a couple?

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Speaker 4: That response totally.

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Speaker 5: I mean again, I think it goes back to what

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Speaker 5: I was just saying of just like we've just been

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Speaker 5: prayerful and you know, just just repenting and also just

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Speaker 5: like inviting people in to that conversation, and we haven't,

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Speaker 5: you know, publicly made any kind of I think we

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Speaker 5: just live in such a culture where it's never enough,

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Speaker 5: like if you say something that's mine or not perfect,

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Speaker 5: like they demand a statement and we just life like that.

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Speaker 5: I'm like, no, then I'm going to be making statements

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Speaker 5: left and right like all the time. We just we

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Speaker 5: have such an offended culture that like if if if

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Speaker 5: they don't agree with what you say, or they don't

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Speaker 5: like how you said it, they're gonna attack and demand

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Speaker 5: an apology. And I just I think for us it's like, hey,

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Speaker 5: before we make any kind of you know, video, or

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Speaker 5: address any type of situation, like, we just want to

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Speaker 5: make sure it's filtered through. Like it's not emotional and

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Speaker 5: it's not reactionary. It's it's led by wisdom, and we're

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Speaker 5: inviting community into it, and we're responding in a way

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Speaker 5: that is glorifying to God. And yeah, that's not doing

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Speaker 5: it to please people, but that's doing it to please God.

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Speaker 5: And we've just really felt, as we've prayed about it,

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Speaker 5: to just like wait upon the Lord right now and

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Speaker 5: you know, just believing that there will be an opportunit

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Speaker 5: unity for us to like fully address it all and

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Speaker 5: for God to make good of this. But I do

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Speaker 5: think that that was for sure, like the part of

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Speaker 5: it that we just felt really saddened over was the

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Speaker 5: way in which it was said. That's definitely not the

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Speaker 5: way and how we feel that's not at all how

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Speaker 5: Grant feels.

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Speaker 4: I think the reality is is like that is.

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Speaker 5: Like that's his little girl and he loves her so

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Speaker 5: much and there's no part of him that would. Yeah,

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Speaker 5: I think it just was a moment where it's like

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Speaker 5: when you're at dinner with friends and you're just being

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Speaker 5: silly and then you don't even realize like what you're saying, and.

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Speaker 4: You're kind of like, wait, do I even mean what

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Speaker 4: I just said? Liked? Wait did I even like? I

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Speaker 4: don't think I that came across the right way.

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Speaker 5: And I think it was just one of those moments

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Speaker 5: where we were just we were just chatting and talking

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Speaker 5: and kind of having a moment of being silly about

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Speaker 5: a subject that we weren't even fully like informed on

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Speaker 5: and that we haven't even fully just gussed together. And

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Speaker 5: uh and then it, you know, and then it came

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Speaker 5: out and people have a lot of opinions, and we're

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Speaker 5: brand new to this parenting world, and so I didn't

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Speaker 5: know that there was this many opinions about parenting world,

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Speaker 5: and so you know, we're we're just we're brand new

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Speaker 5: to all this. And I just always believe in in

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Speaker 5: learning and growing. I think there's always a part that

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Speaker 5: you can own. And then I always think that there's

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Speaker 5: you know, there may be truth to some of the

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Speaker 5: things that we were saying. And then there's also like

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Speaker 5: some things we can own with it, and so it's

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Speaker 5: just this like, Lord, how do we how do we

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Speaker 5: guide this? And we're just taking it to God and

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Speaker 5: to our friends.

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Speaker 6: No, I totally understand what you're saying about statement culture.

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Speaker 6: It's like you said this about this, but you didn't

441
00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:49,680
Speaker 6: say something about this, and it's like, right, yeah.

442
00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:52,520
Speaker 2: That made sense. Actually, you guys, I mean.

443
00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:55,240
Speaker 4: That's what you were saying. You can't win.

444
00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:56,600
Speaker 6: Yeah, thank you.

445
00:21:57,480 --> 00:21:57,640
Speaker 2: Yeah.

446
00:21:57,680 --> 00:21:59,680
Speaker 3: And I'm the king of saying things at a dinner

447
00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:02,040
Speaker 3: table with friends that the next morning I wake up

448
00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:03,879
Speaker 3: and be like, I shouldn't have said that.

449
00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:06,960
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, Jessica. It's just not going to get out

450
00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:07,840
Speaker 2: in the mainstream.

451
00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:10,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, I continue to be the weird one in this relationship.

452
00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:15,359
Speaker 3: Madd Before we really do the quick transition transition to

453
00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:18,880
Speaker 3: strictly about dare to be true, you said that your

454
00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:22,600
Speaker 3: your hope, that grants hope, that your relational hope, that

455
00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:27,200
Speaker 3: your entire hope is to point people to the truth,

456
00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:33,120
Speaker 3: which is Jesus uh, and that is the solid rock

457
00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:39,560
Speaker 3: and foundation. That's awesome, But I think in today's world,

458
00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:43,560
Speaker 3: and this is my creative way of transitioning us to

459
00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:47,720
Speaker 3: there to be true with ai and noise and statement

460
00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:50,800
Speaker 3: culture and things being said and things being said that

461
00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:53,680
Speaker 3: maybe you have to backtrack on or explain a little more.

462
00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:57,800
Speaker 3: I think our world is struggling with so much noise

463
00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:00,680
Speaker 3: and so much information that sometimes it's hard to even

464
00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:04,639
Speaker 3: answer the question who is Jesus? And what exactly are

465
00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:06,840
Speaker 3: you telling me, Mattie, Because you say you're pointing me

466
00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:09,320
Speaker 3: to this thing that's true. You're pointing me to this

467
00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:12,040
Speaker 3: God that loves, You're pointing me to this God that saves.

468
00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:14,120
Speaker 3: But I don't even really know what you're talking about

469
00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:16,560
Speaker 3: because there's a thousand things below that that confuse me.

470
00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:18,280
Speaker 2: And so when you say that, can you.

471
00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:23,280
Speaker 3: Define a little clear of what exactly you're trying to

472
00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:24,159
Speaker 3: point people to?

473
00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:30,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, okay, Well, we all want to know truth

474
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:33,000
Speaker 5: and we all want to be free, and the two

475
00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:36,120
Speaker 5: go hand in hand. Jesus says I am the Way,

476
00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:38,840
Speaker 5: the Truth and the life, and then in John eight

477
00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:42,159
Speaker 5: thirty two, Jesus says, you will know the truth, and

478
00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:45,480
Speaker 5: the truth will set you free. And so the question

479
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:48,199
Speaker 5: is really not a matter of what is truth, but

480
00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:52,160
Speaker 5: rather who is truth? And Scripture is clear that that

481
00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:56,680
Speaker 5: person is Jesus. And when we walk around with our

482
00:23:56,800 --> 00:24:00,560
Speaker 5: truth and your truth, eventually our truth will be confronted

483
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:03,840
Speaker 5: with the truth. And the truth is the only truth

484
00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:06,639
Speaker 5: that will lead to real life and real freedom. And

485
00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:08,159
Speaker 5: you just look at our world today, I mean, you

486
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:10,879
Speaker 5: just see an increase as you know, the freedom of

487
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:14,399
Speaker 5: expression movements, and that your truth live your truth, and

488
00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:18,480
Speaker 5: all these different you know, opinions AI, all these things

489
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:22,240
Speaker 5: that have increased. You see also an increase in in

490
00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:26,280
Speaker 5: suicide and murder and hopelessness and depression and anxiety and

491
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:30,760
Speaker 5: all of these different things. But if if you, if

492
00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:33,639
Speaker 5: we were to all say, like none of us believe

493
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:39,639
Speaker 5: in Jesus, Like my encouragement would be to just start

494
00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:44,400
Speaker 5: reading in the Book of John and ask, pray, ask Jesus, hey,

495
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:46,080
Speaker 5: will you reveal yourself to me?

496
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:48,560
Speaker 4: If you really are who you say you are, show

497
00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:49,560
Speaker 4: me prove it.

498
00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:53,760
Speaker 5: And I've just I've seen every single time that prayer

499
00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:54,440
Speaker 5: get answered.

500
00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:57,000
Speaker 4: And I see a generation.

501
00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:00,639
Speaker 5: I mean right now, I've been a part of of

502
00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:04,040
Speaker 5: a ministry where we've been going across college campuses and

503
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:07,679
Speaker 5: we're experiencing and seeing thousands and thousands and thousands of

504
00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:12,120
Speaker 5: college students who are so hungry, and they're so desperate

505
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:15,800
Speaker 5: for something that's real, for something that lasts, for something

506
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:20,159
Speaker 5: that provides real peace and real hope and real joy.

507
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:23,080
Speaker 5: And what they're seeing is these things that the world

508
00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:26,959
Speaker 5: promises of truth and freedom and where life is found,

509
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:30,440
Speaker 5: just leaves them more empty. And so we're having these

510
00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:32,439
Speaker 5: conversations with college students, and I can even say that

511
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:35,760
Speaker 5: from my own personal experience in my past of trying

512
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:38,080
Speaker 5: to find those things in a relationship, trying to find

513
00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:40,679
Speaker 5: those things in a following, trying to find those things

514
00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:43,280
Speaker 5: in materialism, trying to find those things in a friend,

515
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:47,240
Speaker 5: you name it, in money, whatever it may be. And

516
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:50,360
Speaker 5: you see these college students come forward and they're like, man,

517
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:53,760
Speaker 5: I've tried everything. I've tried to find it in drugs, alcohol, relationships, sex,

518
00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:57,440
Speaker 5: social media, I mean everything, you name it, and there's

519
00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:00,480
Speaker 5: got to be more because I feel so empty. And

520
00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:03,399
Speaker 5: so at the same time as I'm saying, we have

521
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:05,600
Speaker 5: a very real God, and he is the truth and

522
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:08,199
Speaker 5: he is the way. The reality is, is that we

523
00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:11,320
Speaker 5: also have a very real enemy. And Satan is not

524
00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:14,920
Speaker 5: this like silly cartoon villain in character. He is an

525
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:17,560
Speaker 5: enemy who comes in to steal kill and destroy. He lies,

526
00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:21,520
Speaker 5: he deceives, he tempts because he wants to see us bound.

527
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:23,840
Speaker 4: He wants to see us hopeless.

528
00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:27,879
Speaker 5: And that's the reality, is that there is good versus evil,

529
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:31,359
Speaker 5: That there is a good God that leads us to

530
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:34,280
Speaker 5: life and that wants to see us live in freedom,

531
00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:37,159
Speaker 5: and there is an enemy who his ways lead to

532
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:40,359
Speaker 5: death and he wants to see us live in bondage.

533
00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:43,160
Speaker 4: And so there is a wrestle and there is a struggle.

534
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:48,399
Speaker 5: And what I believe is like when we experience the

535
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:50,840
Speaker 5: truth of Jesus Christ, and when we choose to believe

536
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:53,000
Speaker 5: the lie, or when we choose to believe the truth,

537
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:56,399
Speaker 5: we defeat the liar and we defeat those lies that

538
00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:59,560
Speaker 5: have been binding us. And so yeah, that's that's what

539
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:02,200
Speaker 5: I would say is Jesus has changed my life and

540
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:04,639
Speaker 5: he can change yours too. And when we choose to

541
00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:07,280
Speaker 5: just say, hey, Jesus, reveal yourself to me, I want

542
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:07,919
Speaker 5: to follow you.

543
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:08,760
Speaker 4: I want to know you.

544
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:11,800
Speaker 5: All of the questions that we have or all the

545
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:14,040
Speaker 5: things that are so confusing, or like, wow, the Bible

546
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 5: is so intense, and I'm just I have so many

547
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:19,800
Speaker 5: questions and I have so many feelings it just it

548
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:21,879
Speaker 5: just starts little by little, like you don't just have

549
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:25,760
Speaker 5: this overnight like moment where you understand everything about everything.

550
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:28,120
Speaker 5: I still have questions. I still have things that I'm

551
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:31,560
Speaker 5: learning and growing in. And Jesus doesn't ask you to

552
00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:33,439
Speaker 5: do all the right things and have it all figured

553
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:35,919
Speaker 5: out and get cleaned up to come to him. Jesus

554
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:37,879
Speaker 5: did all the right things for you, took all of

555
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:41,040
Speaker 5: his uncleanliness upon himself, and he came to us. And

556
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:44,160
Speaker 5: that is what makes Christianity different than every other religion

557
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:48,080
Speaker 5: and why I choose to follow Jesus as the truth,

558
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:51,840
Speaker 5: because he is God who came to me instead of

559
00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:53,800
Speaker 5: all the other religions that say you got to be

560
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:55,160
Speaker 5: good enough to get to God.

561
00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:58,399
Speaker 4: And that's what I love about our Jesus.

562
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:01,680
Speaker 3: I'm glad you said that you still have questions, because

563
00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:06,000
Speaker 3: I think curiosity is my spiritual gift. I don't know

564
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 3: in my many many years of following Jesus if I

565
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:15,960
Speaker 3: will ever have all the answers, but myke with reading

566
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:21,359
Speaker 3: this book there to be true and say, somebody does

567
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:27,320
Speaker 3: come face to face with the Divine, what is your

568
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:30,159
Speaker 3: hope from there? Because this world is noisy and I

569
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:32,679
Speaker 3: don't want to. I don't want to disregard that or

570
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:36,159
Speaker 3: say hey, everything does make sense, or the you know,

571
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:41,400
Speaker 3: the fifty different Christian movements that are all saying different

572
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:45,120
Speaker 3: things and standing for different things, all will become.

573
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:45,520
Speaker 2: Clear to you.

574
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:47,920
Speaker 3: And so what is your hope by somebody reading this

575
00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:51,280
Speaker 3: and having a confrontation with the divine and hoping that

576
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:54,800
Speaker 3: this book maybe allows them some path forward to helping

577
00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:56,200
Speaker 3: them understand this whole thing.

578
00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:57,880
Speaker 2: What do you say to those people?

579
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 5: Well, Jesus makes a very bold and clear claim that

580
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:03,960
Speaker 5: he is the only way to eternal life. And so

581
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 5: my hope and prayer is that every single person who

582
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 5: reads this book chooses to follow Jesus and.

583
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:15,080
Speaker 4: Because of that they have eternal life.

584
00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:18,680
Speaker 5: You know, it talks about in scripture that the road

585
00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:21,320
Speaker 5: to life is narrow and few find it, and there

586
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:24,200
Speaker 5: is a very broad and wide path that leads to destruction.

587
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 5: And we live in a culture that says, hey, all

588
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:28,400
Speaker 5: paths lead to heaven. You can be a good person,

589
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:30,760
Speaker 5: you can be good enough and work your way there.

590
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:34,040
Speaker 5: And Jesus says that's not true. Good works, religion, moral living,

591
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:38,360
Speaker 5: it can't save you. Your political party, your church attendance,

592
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:42,240
Speaker 5: your upbringing, the family you were raised in, owning a Bible,

593
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 5: having across necklace, having a Bible verse in your Instagram bio.

594
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:47,720
Speaker 5: Those things don't save you. Those things don't make you

595
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:52,520
Speaker 5: a Christian. Only his grace and faith in Him and

596
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:55,880
Speaker 5: choosing to follow him makes you a follower of Jesus.

597
00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 5: And John fourteen six, he says, I'm the way the

598
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:01,200
Speaker 5: truth in the life. No one can the Father except

599
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:04,240
Speaker 5: through Me, And so any teaching that says otherwise, any

600
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:08,040
Speaker 5: other religion, any other person that speaks otherwise. It may

601
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:10,920
Speaker 5: sound loving and inclusive in the moment, but it's ultimately

602
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:14,240
Speaker 5: unloving because it leads to eternal separation from God. And

603
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:17,320
Speaker 5: so I pray that every person who reads there to

604
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:20,440
Speaker 5: be true has an encounter, like you said, with the divine,

605
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:23,680
Speaker 5: they have an encounter with this Jesus, who yes, makes

606
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:26,480
Speaker 5: a very exclusive claim of he is the only way

607
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:31,400
Speaker 5: to eternal life. But it's also the most inclusive invitation.

608
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:35,160
Speaker 5: It is addressed to everybody. Every single person can make

609
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:39,000
Speaker 5: a decision to follow Jesus. And so I pray that

610
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:43,440
Speaker 5: that all of the questions and confusions maybe get answered,

611
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:45,720
Speaker 5: or maybe they don't. And you just start this journey

612
00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:49,560
Speaker 5: with Jesus, and you continue to ask for wisdom, and

613
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:53,320
Speaker 5: you continue to study the Bible and bring in godly

614
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 5: community and get plugged into a local church, and you

615
00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 5: figure those questions out. There's certain things we won't understand.

616
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:01,840
Speaker 5: There's certain things about this world that we live in

617
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:05,680
Speaker 5: because it's so broken and because it's sinful, that are

618
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:09,440
Speaker 5: confusing and that are frustrating. And the division, the hatred,

619
00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:13,720
Speaker 5: the violence, the injustice, you name it. But what we

620
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:16,840
Speaker 5: know as Christians and as believers is that Heaven is

621
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:20,120
Speaker 5: our home. And so this life on earth is going

622
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:22,080
Speaker 5: to be full of a lot of brokenness.

623
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:24,800
Speaker 4: But I also know that I'm living for a much

624
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:25,640
Speaker 4: better life.

625
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:29,400
Speaker 5: And that's my prayer for every person that reads this book,

626
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:33,200
Speaker 5: is that they get saved, they find Jesus, and that

627
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:35,160
Speaker 5: we get to spend eternity together.

628
00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 3: You mentioned AI in this book, and the confusing elements

629
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:54,280
Speaker 3: of AI. It's not going anywhere. It's one of the

630
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 3: topics that I'm most curious about right now. And we

631
00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:01,280
Speaker 3: have a ton, really in the last last two years,

632
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:06,280
Speaker 3: tons of debate on transhumanism and the idea that humans

633
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:09,640
Speaker 3: were created in God's image and can continue to become

634
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:14,080
Speaker 3: like God if we live longer. All these things are

635
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:17,880
Speaker 3: very interesting debates, and you have people well intentioned that

636
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:21,560
Speaker 3: I cannot say who are or are not followers of Jesus.

637
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:24,760
Speaker 3: That's not my place making great arguments on both sides.

638
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:28,640
Speaker 3: So as you consider AI, and as you consider the

639
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:32,320
Speaker 3: advancements in technology, and also what AI is doing to

640
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:40,240
Speaker 3: confuse us with fake things in this world, I guess like,

641
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:43,600
Speaker 3: as you wrote this and as you process all these things,

642
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:44,800
Speaker 3: kind of where was your mind at?

643
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:46,120
Speaker 2: How did it spit you out in there? What do

644
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:47,400
Speaker 2: you hope people learn about it?

645
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:49,520
Speaker 4: Yeah? And I do.

646
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 5: I think it's so it's such a good question to

647
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:53,880
Speaker 5: be like, what we all feel like?

648
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:55,480
Speaker 4: What is real? What can I trust?

649
00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:57,640
Speaker 5: Because there's so many things out there that you're like,

650
00:32:57,720 --> 00:32:59,440
Speaker 5: I don't know if that's real or if that's AI.

651
00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:01,720
Speaker 5: I don't know if that actually happened or if someone

652
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:06,200
Speaker 5: created this on some crazy software system. So I now

653
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:09,200
Speaker 5: am feeling what's wilds. I actually started writing this book

654
00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:13,080
Speaker 5: before AI, I feel like, really became like popular. I

655
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:14,920
Speaker 5: feel like when I first started writing this book, it

656
00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:17,760
Speaker 5: was kind of more people who were just like super

657
00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 5: super into that kind of stuff, knew about it, and

658
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:22,680
Speaker 5: now you know, like chat GBT, everybody's on it like

659
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:25,880
Speaker 5: twenty four to seven all the time. So it's different

660
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:28,440
Speaker 5: now my book coming out versus when I wrote it,

661
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:30,960
Speaker 5: which is crazy because it feels more relevant. This message

662
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:34,040
Speaker 5: feels more relevant even now than when I first started

663
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:36,720
Speaker 5: writing it. But I do I think that that question

664
00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:39,200
Speaker 5: is a very fair question of like what's real and

665
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:40,080
Speaker 5: what can I trust?

666
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:41,040
Speaker 4: And that's what I do.

667
00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:43,680
Speaker 5: I see a generation asking that question of they just

668
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:45,440
Speaker 5: want to know what they can trust, They just want

669
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:49,760
Speaker 5: to know what's real. And I think at the same time,

670
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:52,400
Speaker 5: you can use something like AI as a tool. I

671
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:57,040
Speaker 5: don't think it ever should be used to replace, you know,

672
00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:00,720
Speaker 5: your ability to be curious on your own and to

673
00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:04,760
Speaker 5: search and to research and to create and to be creative.

674
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:06,880
Speaker 5: I think where it can get dangerous is it can

675
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:13,200
Speaker 5: rob us of hard work, of creativity, of you know,

676
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:15,480
Speaker 5: having to like yeah, put in the work to do

677
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:16,400
Speaker 5: a lot of research.

678
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:19,600
Speaker 4: And so that's where I think we have to be careful.

679
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:21,360
Speaker 5: And I think at the same time it can be

680
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:24,399
Speaker 5: a tool if it's stewarded well. For me, I'm never

681
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:28,440
Speaker 5: going to use AI to replace like my time with Jesus.

682
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:30,879
Speaker 5: I'm not gonna like treat it as Jesus where I'm

683
00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:35,680
Speaker 5: asking chat GBT like questions that I would just ask Jesus. However,

684
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:39,399
Speaker 5: I do use it sometimes to be like, hey, can

685
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:41,239
Speaker 5: you explain this verse a little bit more?

686
00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:44,640
Speaker 4: Can you give me some like backup context? Like what who?

687
00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:46,360
Speaker 4: Who wrote this verse? In the vibe?

688
00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:46,560
Speaker 3: Like?

689
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:48,840
Speaker 5: And then I also like to ask it lots of

690
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:52,600
Speaker 5: questions about even like you know, okay, Hoseanna's coming up

691
00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:55,400
Speaker 5: on nine months, like is there anything I need to know?

692
00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:57,279
Speaker 4: Chat? Like what what do I need to know? What

693
00:34:57,280 --> 00:34:59,160
Speaker 4: do I need to read? And so I think that

694
00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:00,600
Speaker 4: it can be used as a tool.

695
00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:04,040
Speaker 5: I just think it gets dangerous when it robs us

696
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:06,480
Speaker 5: of our ability to work hard and be creative. And

697
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:09,320
Speaker 5: so I think, yeah, you just you kind of wrestle

698
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:11,719
Speaker 5: with that and just ask like, am I am I

699
00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:13,880
Speaker 5: using this as a crutch? Am I am I allowing

700
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:18,160
Speaker 5: this to replace like everything like community. I mean, people

701
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:20,600
Speaker 5: use it even as just like their place to like

702
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:24,319
Speaker 5: vent and too and to open up. But I think

703
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:27,000
Speaker 5: that can get dangerous too, because you've got to have

704
00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:29,280
Speaker 5: community in your life. You got to have people around

705
00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:32,319
Speaker 5: you that know what's going on and know how to

706
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:34,120
Speaker 5: be there for you and know how to love you

707
00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:37,440
Speaker 5: and pray for you, and so yeah, I think it's

708
00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:40,520
Speaker 5: just a balance the same way a lot of things are,

709
00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:42,279
Speaker 5: and you just see it as a tool, but not

710
00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:46,239
Speaker 5: like a replacement of good things that God created. Yeah.

711
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:48,600
Speaker 6: Sometimes I get freaked out when like a friend's like, oh,

712
00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:50,720
Speaker 6: but to my chat, should we tease my best friend?

713
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:52,440
Speaker 2: And I'm like, please, no, please know.

714
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:56,719
Speaker 6: I know you're kind of joking there, but you know, Maddie,

715
00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:00,920
Speaker 6: as Ben said earlier in the podcast, there have been

716
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:03,759
Speaker 6: headlines and there's been one that we would just people

717
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:06,080
Speaker 6: would be like, how did you not ask her about that?

718
00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:11,000
Speaker 6: So the one a couple months ago about your previous

719
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:16,200
Speaker 6: addiction to porn and masturbation, when you said that on

720
00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:18,479
Speaker 6: the podcast and it made headlines, was that another moment

721
00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:21,000
Speaker 6: where you're just like, oh, well, I was just free free,

722
00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:24,520
Speaker 6: just just talking too freely right there? Or are you

723
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:27,440
Speaker 6: really glad that that message got out there to your audience.

724
00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:30,440
Speaker 5: No, I'm really glad that that message got out there.

725
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:31,920
Speaker 5: I talk about it a lot in my book. I

726
00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:34,719
Speaker 5: have a whole chapter on it. I think what's so

727
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:38,120
Speaker 5: interesting is that you know the enemy often wants to

728
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:41,400
Speaker 5: identify us by our scars, but Jesus says, no, no, no,

729
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:44,279
Speaker 5: I identify you by my scars. And so the very

730
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:46,520
Speaker 5: thing that used to keep me bound, like now I

731
00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:48,480
Speaker 5: get to boast in it and be like, yeah, that

732
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 5: used to keep me stuck, Like that used to be

733
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:54,120
Speaker 5: my struggle, that used to be an addiction in high school.

734
00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:57,040
Speaker 5: And and of course, like you know, the headlines make

735
00:36:57,080 --> 00:36:58,799
Speaker 5: it want to seem like it was like last year,

736
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:01,759
Speaker 5: but you know, this was this was something that I

737
00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:04,000
Speaker 5: struggled with in high school and for so long it

738
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:06,719
Speaker 5: kept me bound, and it kept me from living a

739
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:09,799
Speaker 5: life of freedom and purpose and confidence and just the

740
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:12,640
Speaker 5: life that Jesus died to give me. And and so

741
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:14,279
Speaker 5: I want to I want to talk about it. There's

742
00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:16,959
Speaker 5: so many girls. I mean, you talk about not even

743
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:19,440
Speaker 5: in just like the space of people who don't know Jesus.

744
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:22,160
Speaker 5: You talk about in churches, you talk about at Christian camps,

745
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:25,799
Speaker 5: you talk about in the most faith spaces. This is

746
00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:29,080
Speaker 5: a really big struggle for a lot of girls. And

747
00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:31,719
Speaker 5: so I will always be the first to I think

748
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:35,200
Speaker 5: vulnerability breeds vulnerability, and I think it creates an opportunity

749
00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:38,440
Speaker 5: for others to follow and say, yeah, I've actually struggled

750
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:38,959
Speaker 5: with this too.

751
00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:42,319
Speaker 4: And I actually had.

752
00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:45,160
Speaker 5: Multiple people message me and just be like, hey, I've

753
00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:49,560
Speaker 5: never told anyone this struggle, And after listening to your podcast,

754
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:52,560
Speaker 5: it gave me the courage and the confidence to share

755
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:55,040
Speaker 5: this with some friends.

756
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:56,120
Speaker 4: And I think that.

757
00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:59,160
Speaker 5: We have done a really big disservice in the church

758
00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:02,000
Speaker 5: and in the world. When we talk about purity, I

759
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:05,120
Speaker 5: think it sparks very strong reactions. I mean I learned

760
00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:08,320
Speaker 5: that even when I look on The Bachelor and talked about,

761
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:11,520
Speaker 5: you know, saving myself for marriage and fantasy suites and

762
00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:13,759
Speaker 5: all of that stuff. I mean, it sparked a lot

763
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:16,560
Speaker 5: of strong reactions. And I think there's a lot of

764
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:20,400
Speaker 5: distorted teachings out there. But my heart behind purity is

765
00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:23,680
Speaker 5: yes to address in God's heart. Really, behind purity is

766
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:27,200
Speaker 5: yes to address you know, what we do with our body.

767
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:30,279
Speaker 5: But it's way beyond that. It says in Matthew five eight,

768
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:32,480
Speaker 5: blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.

769
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:35,800
Speaker 5: It's so much more about our heart, our thoughts, our motives,

770
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:39,960
Speaker 5: our desires, And what I want to see is this generation.

771
00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:43,640
Speaker 5: I want to see this generation free, and I think

772
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:45,319
Speaker 5: there's a lot of people that are bound in this

773
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:48,799
Speaker 5: area when it comes to sexual sin and sexual sin addictions,

774
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:52,080
Speaker 5: a lot of people that you wouldn't even expect, and

775
00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 5: a lot of people who have just been hiding it

776
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:57,440
Speaker 5: for so long. But I believe that purity is a

777
00:38:57,480 --> 00:38:59,839
Speaker 5: blessing God wants to give us, not something he wants

778
00:38:59,880 --> 00:39:03,040
Speaker 5: to withhold from us or take from us. Purity is

779
00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:06,680
Speaker 5: truly the path to God's presence, It's the path to freedom,

780
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:09,640
Speaker 5: and it's an invitation for every one of us to

781
00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:12,920
Speaker 5: experienced His experiences very best for our lives.

782
00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:15,160
Speaker 3: Mattie, how do you find the strength to come out

783
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:18,640
Speaker 3: and say something like this publicly? Obviously, you know you

784
00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:20,480
Speaker 3: and I both grew up in the church. We both

785
00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:26,320
Speaker 3: probably were familiar with the purity movement, dances and conferences

786
00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:29,160
Speaker 3: and rings that came across the stages, and we made

787
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:31,720
Speaker 3: some commitment to our parents at a very young age

788
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:35,560
Speaker 3: to never have sex with anybody, which looking back, was

789
00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:40,080
Speaker 3: probably super awkward for everybody involved in that. There is

790
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:42,799
Speaker 3: a better way, Goodness, gracious, I went to college for

791
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:45,240
Speaker 3: two years of my life to teach sex ad in churches.

792
00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:47,719
Speaker 2: There's just not a market for it. Shockingly.

793
00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:51,719
Speaker 3: So this is a big topic when and obviously one

794
00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:54,680
Speaker 3: that affects so many. So you come out and publicly

795
00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:57,120
Speaker 3: say something like this, that is very vulnerable. But then

796
00:39:57,160 --> 00:40:00,440
Speaker 3: also you have the desire to be a good parent

797
00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:04,440
Speaker 3: and to walk Hosana through this process. I guess just

798
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:06,600
Speaker 3: elaborate if you can, on where you find the strength,

799
00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:08,560
Speaker 3: and then what's your hopes for your daughter.

800
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:12,560
Speaker 5: Yeah, for so long, I too to what you were

801
00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:16,680
Speaker 5: just talking about and referencing. I thought that purity meant

802
00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:18,799
Speaker 5: I just had to have a really good reputation. I

803
00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:21,160
Speaker 5: needed to be perfect. God was going to punish me

804
00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:24,360
Speaker 5: if I had sex with someone. My parents were going

805
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:26,040
Speaker 5: to be so mad at me if I had sex

806
00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:27,759
Speaker 5: with someone. And it was just like it was all

807
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:29,880
Speaker 5: about sex. It was all about what people thought, It

808
00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:32,320
Speaker 5: was all about what I looked like on the outside.

809
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:34,960
Speaker 4: It was all about reputation, and it was all about me.

810
00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:40,400
Speaker 5: And so for so long it created like there just

811
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:43,839
Speaker 5: there wasn't even freedom in me making that decision, or

812
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:47,240
Speaker 5: even a desire to make that decision. It was more

813
00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:49,840
Speaker 5: I feel like I have to make this decision or

814
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:53,680
Speaker 5: I'm going to be punished, and so I my heart,

815
00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:58,480
Speaker 5: my heart is that people understand that purity really is

816
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:03,680
Speaker 5: it's at and it leads to the life that Jesus

817
00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:07,200
Speaker 5: wants us to have. And I hope that when I

818
00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:10,839
Speaker 5: communicate that to my daughter, I share with her, you know,

819
00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:15,240
Speaker 5: mommy's worst mistakes and also the lies that mommy believed

820
00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:19,640
Speaker 5: about purity for so long and where I went wrong,

821
00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:22,560
Speaker 5: and then also presenting her with what scripture says and

822
00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:26,640
Speaker 5: with what truth says, and why it's following that truth

823
00:41:26,719 --> 00:41:30,200
Speaker 5: that leads to freedom and that leads to life. I

824
00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:33,080
Speaker 5: think about it like, for the longest time, I thought

825
00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:35,279
Speaker 5: purity was like you know, when your parents would come

826
00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:36,680
Speaker 5: up and be like, I need you to clean your room,

827
00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:38,439
Speaker 5: and so you just like shove everything under your bed

828
00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:40,640
Speaker 5: and you're like, I'm good, you know, and they come

829
00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:43,040
Speaker 5: in and they're like, I don't see mess, so great job.

830
00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:45,920
Speaker 5: And the reality is is that we just moved the

831
00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:48,560
Speaker 5: mess to another place. And I think that's what happens

832
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:50,600
Speaker 5: so often when we think about purity, it's like, oh,

833
00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:51,759
Speaker 5: I just have to hide it.

834
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:53,200
Speaker 4: I just have to cover it up.

835
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:56,120
Speaker 5: I just have to make sure it look I look

836
00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:59,279
Speaker 5: good on the outside and that nobody else sees this

837
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:02,640
Speaker 5: mess or this struggle or this sin. Whereas God, when

838
00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:05,440
Speaker 5: you read throughout scripture, you see like God cares so

839
00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:07,960
Speaker 5: much more about our heart. And you can look really

840
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:10,080
Speaker 5: clean on the outside, but if your heart is full

841
00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:14,480
Speaker 5: of impurity or you know, jealousy or hatred or whatever

842
00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:17,800
Speaker 5: the sin may be, that is an impure, unclean heart.

843
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:19,600
Speaker 4: And so that's really.

844
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:22,600
Speaker 5: What I want people to to take from this book,

845
00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:25,239
Speaker 5: what I would want my daughter to know, and that

846
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:28,680
Speaker 5: it has. When I fell for the lie of living

847
00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:33,080
Speaker 5: in impurity, it led to bondage and shame and disappointment

848
00:42:33,239 --> 00:42:37,080
Speaker 5: and self hatred and so many other things. But when

849
00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:42,160
Speaker 5: I chose to follow what Jesus's truth was on the

850
00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:44,520
Speaker 5: path to life, which is living a life of holiness

851
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:47,600
Speaker 5: and purity, it truly did lead to freedom. Like it

852
00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:49,680
Speaker 5: led to joy, it led to peace, It led to

853
00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:53,120
Speaker 5: purpose and confidence. I mean to even what you're talking

854
00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:55,880
Speaker 5: about bin of like, how do you have the strength

855
00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:59,319
Speaker 5: or the confidence to talk about these things? I mean, one,

856
00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:01,359
Speaker 5: I know that that my life is not my own,

857
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:03,239
Speaker 5: and one day I'm going to be face to face

858
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:04,800
Speaker 5: with my Creator and I'm have to give an account

859
00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:08,520
Speaker 5: for my life. And I don't want to hear you know, like,

860
00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:10,640
Speaker 5: why didn't you speak about these things? Why didn't you

861
00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:14,040
Speaker 5: stand firm on these things? And my response be well,

862
00:43:14,040 --> 00:43:15,759
Speaker 5: I was so worried about what other people were going

863
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:18,440
Speaker 5: to think about me. I've always been someone that I'm like,

864
00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:20,560
Speaker 5: I don't care what anybody thinks, Like, this is what

865
00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:22,360
Speaker 5: I know is true, and this is what I know

866
00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:25,000
Speaker 5: has led me to freedom, and I want everybody to

867
00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:28,520
Speaker 5: experience this freedom. And so that's really my heart is,

868
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:30,719
Speaker 5: like I want to please God and I want other

869
00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:34,040
Speaker 5: people to experience this freedom that I get to live

870
00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:35,200
Speaker 5: and experience every day.

871
00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:42,480
Speaker 3: Final question for you, Dare to be True forwards written

872
00:43:42,520 --> 00:43:49,200
Speaker 3: by Jonathan JP Cluda. The subtitle is defeat the lies

873
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:52,280
Speaker 3: that bind you and live out the truth that sets

874
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:56,440
Speaker 3: you free. Maddie. For the reader, what is your hope

875
00:43:56,480 --> 00:43:58,800
Speaker 3: that they get from this book? What is your hope

876
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:03,160
Speaker 3: that they closed the book feeling, learning, experiencing. Why would

877
00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:05,400
Speaker 3: somebody read it? Give us like your minute long sales

878
00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:07,040
Speaker 3: pitch Wow.

879
00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:11,239
Speaker 5: Well, my hope is that you find Jesus and that

880
00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:15,680
Speaker 5: there is a realization of the seriousness of sin and

881
00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:18,279
Speaker 5: that you no longer have to carry shame or be

882
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:21,279
Speaker 5: bound by the lies that the enemy wants you to

883
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:24,239
Speaker 5: believe that there is a better way, That there is

884
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:27,080
Speaker 5: a way that leads to light and love and hope

885
00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:29,799
Speaker 5: and peace, That there is a way that leads to

886
00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:33,440
Speaker 5: you experiencing and living out your true God given purpose

887
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:36,080
Speaker 5: and your true God given identity and living a life

888
00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:38,600
Speaker 5: that impacts and blesses other people. And so if you're

889
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:41,080
Speaker 5: feeling like there's got to be something more, I'm so

890
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:44,600
Speaker 5: bound and I don't even know why. I don't know

891
00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:47,279
Speaker 5: why I feel so like something is just sucking the

892
00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:50,920
Speaker 5: life out of me. My encouragement is read this book.

893
00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:53,200
Speaker 5: You're going to find that there is there is so

894
00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:56,680
Speaker 5: much more for you, and Jesus has a better way

895
00:44:56,680 --> 00:44:59,600
Speaker 5: for you, and I'm excited for you to start that adventure.

896
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:00,640
Speaker 4: All right, guys.

897
00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:03,400
Speaker 6: Will Dare to Be True is out September twenty third,

898
00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:06,480
Speaker 6: and it is available for pre order right now.

899
00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:09,040
Speaker 4: Thank you, guys, this is so fun, and thank you winning.

900
00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:13,080
Speaker 3: Thank you Maddie when he was your guest hosting for free.

901
00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:14,000
Speaker 3: She doesn't get paid for this.

902
00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:14,640
Speaker 2: It's awesome.

903
00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:19,400
Speaker 4: Oh good, thanks Maddie.

904
00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:21,400
Speaker 2: We'll see you. Thanks Maddy, good luck with the buck.

905
00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:23,040
Speaker 6: It's gonna do great, I'm sure.

906
00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:26,600
Speaker 4: By so much so fun. Bye guys, Bye.

907
00:45:27,200 --> 00:45:30,879
Speaker 1: Follow the Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous podcast on iHeartRadio,

908
00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:33,440
Speaker 1: or subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts.