1 00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:06,840 Speaker 1: Hey there, and welcome to short stuff. I'm Josh Clark. 2 00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:10,680 Speaker 1: There's Charles to Beach Briant, and there's Jerry Jerome wrong 3 00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:16,320 Speaker 1: and over there. Yeah. The only reason need to stop 4 00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:18,520 Speaker 1: that notice because you saw me draw it to a 5 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:24,160 Speaker 1: close like a conductor. I know you conduct me. That's 6 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:27,600 Speaker 1: a T shirt. So this is a follow up everyone. 7 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:32,480 Speaker 1: We do these occasionally. About five this years ago, five 8 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:34,159 Speaker 1: and a half fish, five and a half ish we 9 00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:37,040 Speaker 1: did have In three quarters we did a full length 10 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:42,720 Speaker 1: episode on the Roanoke Colony, The Creepy Spooky Crow Ato 11 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:46,960 Speaker 1: and Mystery of Roanoak so good, and in it we 12 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:50,280 Speaker 1: spent just a few minutes talking about the dare Stones. 13 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:52,560 Speaker 1: But when I went back and listened to it again, 14 00:00:53,080 --> 00:00:56,160 Speaker 1: we didn't go into nearly enough detail. And so we're 15 00:00:56,160 --> 00:00:59,480 Speaker 1: gonna do that right now. We are, so just to 16 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:01,480 Speaker 1: kind of bring you guys back up to date real quick. 17 00:01:03,360 --> 00:01:05,400 Speaker 1: And it still is as a matter of fact, of 18 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:08,560 Speaker 1: North Carolina near the North Carolina Virginia border. It was 19 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:11,640 Speaker 1: the first attempt, I believe in in English colony. There 20 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:14,240 Speaker 1: was a first wave in fiftive that didn't work out, 21 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:16,840 Speaker 1: and then a second wave. Maybe it was even the 22 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:21,440 Speaker 1: third wave technically came along in July seven, and this 23 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:25,640 Speaker 1: ship carried ninety men, seventeen women, and eleven children. And 24 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:27,840 Speaker 1: it was led by a guy named John White who 25 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:32,720 Speaker 1: was named the governor of the I guess Roanoke Colony, 26 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:36,959 Speaker 1: and he had his daughter, Eleanor Dare with him. She 27 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:39,959 Speaker 1: was married to uh Anna I a Stare. I think 28 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:43,680 Speaker 1: that's how you say that great sixteenth century name. It 29 00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 1: sure is and Anna and I as I just want 30 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:49,000 Speaker 1: to say that all the time. And Eleanor had a baby, 31 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:53,360 Speaker 1: the first English born or English baby born in America, 32 00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:57,280 Speaker 1: whose name was Virginia Dare. Now do you know if 33 00:01:57,320 --> 00:02:01,360 Speaker 1: they did it in America? Was the conceived in America 34 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:08,400 Speaker 1: or just born in America? I don't know. I don't know. Actually, 35 00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:10,360 Speaker 1: I'm kind of I'm just kind of curious. It doesn't 36 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:12,519 Speaker 1: really matter, because what really matters is this was the 37 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:15,520 Speaker 1: first English baby born in the New World. And it 38 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:17,600 Speaker 1: was a very big deal for little baby Virginia to 39 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:23,079 Speaker 1: come along. It was so um. In short order, Virginia's grandfather, 40 00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:25,960 Speaker 1: John White, the head of the colony, says, hey, guys, 41 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:28,520 Speaker 1: I'm kind of bored. I'm gonna go back to England. 42 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:30,919 Speaker 1: And I'll get some supplies. I'll be back within a year. 43 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:34,320 Speaker 1: You guys sit tight, just keep building this colony up, 44 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:38,000 Speaker 1: and uh, it'll be all good b RB. Right. But 45 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:41,800 Speaker 1: he did not b RB. He beat a long time 46 00:02:41,880 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 1: from coming back, right, And about three years worth comes 47 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 1: back and no one's there. His daughter's gone, his grand 48 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:55,320 Speaker 1: little Virginia's gone. Everybody's gone. Um, the buildings are dismantled. 49 00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:58,679 Speaker 1: And as you learned in that episode, the word crow 50 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:02,239 Speaker 1: at Owen was carved and that was in a I 51 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:05,000 Speaker 1: guess it was a tree, right, Yeah, they carved into 52 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:07,360 Speaker 1: a tree, and crow Tone was the name of a 53 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:11,400 Speaker 1: friendly nearby tribe that the English had been in contact with. 54 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:16,080 Speaker 1: That's right. So, uh, what was not there was across 55 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:18,800 Speaker 1: and White said, hey, listen, if there's you know, some 56 00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:21,280 Speaker 1: bad stuff going on, and you guys have to split 57 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:24,240 Speaker 1: like just to take some time to carve across into 58 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:28,040 Speaker 1: a tree, so I'll know that bad stuff happened. That 59 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:30,239 Speaker 1: cross was not there. So there's always been a big 60 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:33,040 Speaker 1: mystery about what crow a Tone was all about why 61 00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:35,360 Speaker 1: there was no cross and what happened to the hundred 62 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:38,000 Speaker 1: and eighteen settlers, Like that was it? There was that 63 00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 1: was the that was the sum total of the evidence, 64 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:43,440 Speaker 1: and John White asked around a little bit, didn't try 65 00:03:43,480 --> 00:03:45,840 Speaker 1: all that hard to find him actually for it being 66 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:48,560 Speaker 1: the you know, his daughter, his son in law and 67 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:54,480 Speaker 1: his granddaughter and the first American, right exactly, first English American. Sure, um, 68 00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:58,120 Speaker 1: you want to get us killed? Uh? And uh so 69 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:00,600 Speaker 1: he he goes back to England and the mystery just 70 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:04,600 Speaker 1: sets in. When Jamestown settlers come along, they ask around, 71 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:08,320 Speaker 1: they hear, they hear rumors of um tribes that are 72 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 1: made up of like light skinned people who speak English 73 00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:14,960 Speaker 1: and live in two story thatched roof houses. Um. But 74 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:17,800 Speaker 1: none of it is ever confirmed. There's no evidence whatsoever 75 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:21,680 Speaker 1: what happened to these lost colonists at Roanoke. And that's 76 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:24,240 Speaker 1: the way it was for three d and fifty is 77 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:29,520 Speaker 1: years until uh the summer of nine seven, when a 78 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:33,839 Speaker 1: guy from California named L. E. Hammond, which, as i've 79 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 1: I've found, um is not to be confused with Lah 80 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:40,280 Speaker 1: Hammond Inferno, which is a synth band that I came 81 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:45,720 Speaker 1: across today accidentally, I kind of they're pretty good. Um. 82 00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 1: His name was actually Lewis Hammond, but he was a 83 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:51,679 Speaker 1: produced dealer from California, and he showed up at Emory 84 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:55,160 Speaker 1: University and said, Hey, I'm on vacation in North Carolina 85 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:57,280 Speaker 1: with my wife looking for hickory nuts as you do. 86 00:04:57,800 --> 00:04:59,920 Speaker 1: And I found this weird stone. What do you guys 87 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 1: make of this thing? Yeah, so Emory's right here in Atlanta. 88 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:06,279 Speaker 1: And it was inscribed and with a message, and he said, 89 00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:08,480 Speaker 1: can you guys tell me what this says? And I'm 90 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:11,240 Speaker 1: gonna read it right now in full. This is the 91 00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:17,160 Speaker 1: sort of you know, modernized version, because it was it's 92 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:21,279 Speaker 1: sort of like reading Jeffrey Chaucer or something, so it 93 00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:24,440 Speaker 1: has to get translated. So here's what it said. Father. 94 00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:29,000 Speaker 1: Soon after you go for England, we came here only 95 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:33,840 Speaker 1: misery and war for two years above half dead. These 96 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:38,040 Speaker 1: two years more from sickness. Being twenty four, a savage 97 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:41,280 Speaker 1: with a message of a ship came to us. Within 98 00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:43,800 Speaker 1: a small space of time, they became frightened of revenge 99 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:47,039 Speaker 1: and ran all away. We believe it was not you. 100 00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:51,160 Speaker 1: Soon after the savages said spirits were angry, suddenly they 101 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:55,440 Speaker 1: murdered all save seven. That means all but seven. My 102 00:05:55,560 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 1: child and annon I as two were slain with much misery. 103 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:02,960 Speaker 1: Is there any other way that peace Lane is my question? 104 00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:06,920 Speaker 1: Buried all near four miles east of this river, upon 105 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:10,279 Speaker 1: a small hill, names were written all there on a rock. 106 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:13,680 Speaker 1: Put this there. Also, if a savage shows this to you, 107 00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 1: we promised you would give them great plenty presents. Right, 108 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:23,800 Speaker 1: So there you have it. Yeah, And it was E. W. D. 109 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:27,680 Speaker 1: Eleanor White Dare that's what you would think. Yeah, And 110 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:30,440 Speaker 1: so the Emery professors are like, where did you get this? 111 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:32,839 Speaker 1: You may have just solved like a three hundred and 112 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:38,320 Speaker 1: fifty year old mystery. And Lewis Hammond was like, somewhere 113 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:42,520 Speaker 1: about fifty miles inland. They went, what did you just say? 114 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:45,120 Speaker 1: He said, I don't know, about fifty miles from Roanoke 115 00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:48,640 Speaker 1: Island And they said, well, you know, John White, the governor, 116 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:53,640 Speaker 1: famously reckoned that the Roanoke colonists had moved fifty miles 117 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:57,840 Speaker 1: into the main So that would definitely coincide with that idea. Um. 118 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:00,800 Speaker 1: So they went back to this area where um Lewis 119 00:07:00,839 --> 00:07:03,279 Speaker 1: Hammond found this rock and they could not find the spot. 120 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:06,240 Speaker 1: He couldn't find the spot where he originally found it 121 00:07:06,279 --> 00:07:08,599 Speaker 1: to show them, but he left it with them. I 122 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:10,800 Speaker 1: think sold it to him. I think is more accurate, 123 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:13,920 Speaker 1: and then went back to California and was scarcely heard 124 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:16,200 Speaker 1: from again. That's right. So we're gonna take a break. 125 00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:18,800 Speaker 1: We're gonna come back and tell you, as Paul Harvey 126 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:41,920 Speaker 1: would say, the rest of the story as sk So 127 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:46,000 Speaker 1: here's the deal with that original stone. Um, it depends 128 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:48,440 Speaker 1: on who you talk to. Some people say it was authentic. 129 00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:52,280 Speaker 1: Some people still say it's authentic and may have solved 130 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:54,720 Speaker 1: the mystery. Some people say no, it was not. We'll 131 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:56,520 Speaker 1: talk a little bit more about that in a second. 132 00:07:57,080 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 1: But what happened was the whole country started talking. Uh. 133 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:03,560 Speaker 1: That was a professor at Emory name Heywood J. Pierce Jr. 134 00:08:04,520 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 1: Who published that paper, published a paper so talking all 135 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:10,840 Speaker 1: about the stone in the Journal of Southern History in 136 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:16,120 Speaker 1: ninety eight. He had his father, Heywood J. Pierce, dad, 137 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 1: and he owned. Daddy owned a college, Burnell University, which 138 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 1: is in Gainesville, Georgias. Now it was Burnell University. Now 139 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:27,680 Speaker 1: I think down now just the fever that's properly, it's 140 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:31,080 Speaker 1: probably out of shirt somewhere. So they started to have 141 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:34,000 Speaker 1: suspicions because, like you said, when they went back, they 142 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:37,079 Speaker 1: couldn't really find exactly where he found it. They got 143 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:40,400 Speaker 1: a I guess a private investigator or somebody in California 144 00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:43,400 Speaker 1: to look into this Hammond guy, and they really couldn't 145 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:46,440 Speaker 1: find much to corroborate a story or even who he 146 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:49,720 Speaker 1: said he was, other than his name and address. I 147 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:53,440 Speaker 1: saw an internet sleuth explained it by saying, you know what, 148 00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:58,080 Speaker 1: this guy was married before in a census, Um, he 149 00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:04,200 Speaker 1: has two children and seven they were still underage, so um, 150 00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:07,760 Speaker 1: he may have been laying low and keeping away from 151 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:11,160 Speaker 1: publicity so he wouldn't pay child support. Interesting. I thought 152 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:14,200 Speaker 1: that was a clever, interesting explanation for it, because what 153 00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:16,320 Speaker 1: I found was there was nothing to indicate that this 154 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:18,959 Speaker 1: guy was actually a fraud, just that they couldn't really 155 00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:22,280 Speaker 1: follow up with them very easily. Yeah, but at the 156 00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:26,840 Speaker 1: very least Pierce and Pierce were uh, still very intrigued 157 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:30,640 Speaker 1: by this original stone and said, uh, here's a reward 158 00:09:30,679 --> 00:09:33,600 Speaker 1: offered for any additional stones that pop up five bucks. 159 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:35,719 Speaker 1: And all of a sudden people are like, oh, I 160 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:38,719 Speaker 1: got some stones, you want some, you want five? You 161 00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:42,000 Speaker 1: wanna give me five dollars, I'll show you some Deir stones. Uh. 162 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:46,160 Speaker 1: Specifically a man named Bill Eberhardt who was an artist. 163 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:48,920 Speaker 1: He was a stone cutter from Fulton County right here 164 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:53,319 Speaker 1: in Atlanta, and he was paid two thousand dollars for 165 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:56,640 Speaker 1: forty two forgeries that he turned over as de Air stones. 166 00:09:56,960 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 1: And it's not like they they said, hey, thanks for 167 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:02,160 Speaker 1: these forgeries, here's some money. They thought they were they 168 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:05,360 Speaker 1: were real at the time. But um on the stones, 169 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:09,200 Speaker 1: the series of stones, it basically tracks Eleanor. It's like 170 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:12,679 Speaker 1: Eleanor's little break breadcrumb diary that goes all the way 171 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:15,360 Speaker 1: down to Georgia, almost to Atlanta, and along the way 172 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:18,959 Speaker 1: she marries a chief from the Cherokee tribe, has another 173 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:25,040 Speaker 1: daughter named agnes Um you know, uh possibly like becomes 174 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:29,000 Speaker 1: romantically entangled with Tom Hanks over email for a little while, 175 00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:31,960 Speaker 1: and then ends up dying in a cave in Georgia. 176 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:34,400 Speaker 1: I just love the idea of this stone cutter, like 177 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:38,600 Speaker 1: inventing the storyline, you know, right, He's like, this is 178 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:40,959 Speaker 1: the life I wish I had had. You know, you 179 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:44,679 Speaker 1: could have been a screenwriter, Bill Everhard. I wonder, who 180 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:46,800 Speaker 1: if he's got to have family here still, this is 181 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:49,920 Speaker 1: just like the late thirties in Fulton County. Man, I 182 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:53,000 Speaker 1: hope somebody's listening. They're like stop talking about my uncle 183 00:10:53,040 --> 00:11:01,080 Speaker 1: Bill like this. I think it's great. I guess all right, 184 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:04,880 Speaker 1: so this is uh the flash ward In April, the 185 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:08,640 Speaker 1: Saturday Evening Post said, you know what, these Norman Rockwell 186 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 1: covers are great, but what we really want to do 187 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:14,400 Speaker 1: is run an expose on these Dare Stones and basically 188 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:17,400 Speaker 1: shut it down as a complete forgery. Yeah. They they 189 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:21,640 Speaker 1: did some real leg work to just totally undermine the 190 00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:24,040 Speaker 1: Daar Stones, which really kind of goes to to point 191 00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:27,200 Speaker 1: out how much the Dare Stones had totally captured the 192 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:31,560 Speaker 1: imagination of the entire country. Um, this was a big, big, 193 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:35,480 Speaker 1: widely publicized deal, and Saturday Evening Post came along and said, no, 194 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:37,560 Speaker 1: look at this crack in this crack in this crack, 195 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:40,120 Speaker 1: and basically, by the end of the article had just 196 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:44,240 Speaker 1: completely revealed the whole thing as a hoax. And definitely 197 00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 1: everything after that first one that Lewis Hammond found is 198 00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:53,679 Speaker 1: most decidedly at hoax at best. The Lewis Hammond stone is, 199 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:56,880 Speaker 1: like you were saying, up for debate. But the Saturday 200 00:11:56,880 --> 00:12:00,440 Speaker 1: Evening Post said, no, there's anachronistic language in there. Things 201 00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:04,200 Speaker 1: like reconnoiter would not have been used. Um, there's a 202 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:08,120 Speaker 1: problem with the fact that they used Arabic numerals um, 203 00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:11,880 Speaker 1: which didn't come into into use until later on. It's 204 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:14,920 Speaker 1: weird that she made like vs instead of use, which 205 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:17,800 Speaker 1: is kind of like Roman lettering a little bit. Um. 206 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 1: And at the time when the Saturday Evening Post dropped 207 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:23,199 Speaker 1: this article, I was like, oh, well, that's it. It's 208 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:26,600 Speaker 1: a total, total fraud and a total hoax. But as 209 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:29,960 Speaker 1: the years kind of went by and bright Now University 210 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 1: suffered a tremendous public relations crisis as a result of this. 211 00:12:34,679 --> 00:12:37,240 Speaker 1: A lot of people looked really bad for verifying these 212 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:40,320 Speaker 1: stones is authentic and then just being totally undermined by 213 00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:43,800 Speaker 1: the Saturday Evening Post br Now and and um, everyone 214 00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:46,960 Speaker 1: related to the stones almost literally buried them away in 215 00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:48,800 Speaker 1: a basement and then later on in an attic and 216 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:50,920 Speaker 1: br now and tried to forget about it as much 217 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:53,640 Speaker 1: as possible. Yeah, Pierce and Pierce had egg on their 218 00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:56,800 Speaker 1: face and that was no good. But people today say 219 00:12:56,920 --> 00:13:00,360 Speaker 1: again that it's possible that first one might be like, 220 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:03,560 Speaker 1: for real, Um, it's different rock than these other ones. 221 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:08,439 Speaker 1: It's this white, really bright white quartzite interior and has 222 00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:12,200 Speaker 1: a dark exterior, so it would have been something really good, 223 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:15,319 Speaker 1: like almost like a chalkboard for her to use, So 224 00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:19,160 Speaker 1: that sort of makes sense. And um, it doesn't have 225 00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:23,000 Speaker 1: this anachronistic language that those other stones do. Uh. The 226 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:25,040 Speaker 1: sign off is a little weird with E W D 227 00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:27,240 Speaker 1: because that's probably not what she would have done in 228 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:30,199 Speaker 1: the sixteenth century. Other people say, no, no, no, it's 229 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:33,320 Speaker 1: still that Chowen riverstone is a phony. And what they're 230 00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:37,160 Speaker 1: hoping is is that modern techniques can uh kind of 231 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:39,440 Speaker 1: test this thing out at some point and see if 232 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:43,000 Speaker 1: it's in fact legit. Yeah, because it's basically been cleared 233 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:45,719 Speaker 1: by a lot of the humanities. People like there's an 234 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:50,760 Speaker 1: expert in medieval graffiti, um who said this actually checks 235 00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:54,079 Speaker 1: out pretty well. Here's an example of somebody using Arabic numerals, 236 00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:56,640 Speaker 1: here's an example of somebody signing their name in this 237 00:13:56,720 --> 00:14:02,360 Speaker 1: kind of UM kind of abbreviation UM. So a lot 238 00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:04,320 Speaker 1: of it's been explained away. And the fact that it 239 00:14:04,559 --> 00:14:07,880 Speaker 1: is white quartzite, that when she carved it, like you said, 240 00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:10,120 Speaker 1: it would have been like a chalkboard. That would be 241 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:13,120 Speaker 1: a terrible stone for a forger to choose, because you 242 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:17,079 Speaker 1: would have to go to tremendous amounts of trouble to 243 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:21,760 Speaker 1: to to fake it. Basically you just choose a different stone. Um. 244 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:23,880 Speaker 1: So the fact that that it would have been really 245 00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:26,200 Speaker 1: hard to forge and they tried at the time of 246 00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:29,400 Speaker 1: the Saturday Evening Post article to forge it three different 247 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:32,960 Speaker 1: ways and nobody could do it, um really lends a 248 00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:36,760 Speaker 1: lot of credence to it. Keeps hope alive that this 249 00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:40,880 Speaker 1: first stone, the original stone, is actually real. Right, so 250 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:43,920 Speaker 1: maybe we'll find out one day, is our technology advance 251 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:46,920 Speaker 1: is what happened to the original callings at roh Noke, 252 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:52,080 Speaker 1: or that this stone says exactly how it happened. So alright, Chuck, 253 00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:54,560 Speaker 1: you got anything else? Nothing else? Well, that is it 254 00:14:54,640 --> 00:14:58,880 Speaker 1: for short stuff everybody. Oh wait, Jerry, you got anything else? Okay, 255 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:01,960 Speaker 1: Well that's it for short stuff everybody. Uh. You can 256 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:04,840 Speaker 1: read a really great article on the dre Stones on 257 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:06,920 Speaker 1: how stuff Works, and you can listen to our original 258 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:09,840 Speaker 1: row Noke episode two at Stuff you Should Know dot 259 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 1: com and uh, in the meantime, we'll see you next 260 00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:17,320 Speaker 1: time short stuff out. Stuff you Should Know is a 261 00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:20,640 Speaker 1: production of iHeart Radio's How Stuff Works. For more podcasts 262 00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:23,080 Speaker 1: for my heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app Apple 263 00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:28,560 Speaker 1: Podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. H