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Speaker 1: Too Much Information is a production of iHeartRadio. Hello everyone,

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Speaker 1: and welcome to Too Much Information, the show that brings

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Speaker 1: you the secret histories and little known fascinating facts and

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Speaker 1: figures behind your favorite TV shows, movies, music, and more.

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Speaker 1: We are your two exorcists of extraneous esoterica. I'm Alex

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Speaker 1: Heigel and I'm Jordan Run talk very good, very nice.

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Speaker 1: And Jordan, as you might have gleaned from that, we

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Speaker 1: are talking about one of the most famous horror movies,

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Speaker 1: famous movies period of all time, one that established an

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Speaker 1: entire sub genre, literally revolutionized the motion picture industry, etc.

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Speaker 1: And scared me and scared of young Jordan. We are

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Speaker 1: talking about The Exorcist. Happy Holidays, as everyone Merry Christmas.

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Speaker 1: This is supposed to be closer to Halloween, but it's.

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Speaker 2: Almost on the fiftieth anniversary of the Exorcist release, so

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Speaker 2: it kind of worked.

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Speaker 1: It is yes, yes, yes, yes, I can't believe they

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Speaker 1: really the day after Christmas. That's so funny to me.

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Speaker 1: It's perfect, I mean else, yeah, yeah, exactly. This is

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Speaker 1: one of the many classic movies I saw when I

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Speaker 1: was way too young, and then at least until preparing

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Speaker 1: for this episode, I never saw it again. Such bummers

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Speaker 1: include Midnight Cowboy, Bonnie and Clyde, and Deliverance.

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Speaker 2: I saw them all in middle school, I would say,

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Speaker 2: and oh yeah, major bummer. But I first became aware

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Speaker 2: of the Exorcist when the two thousand reissue or re

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Speaker 2: release was included in the trailer of my beloved American

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Speaker 2: Graffiti VHS, which means that my obsession with happy days

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Speaker 2: nostalgia led me to the Antichrist. And this was also

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Speaker 2: around the same time that I was getting into Austin

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Speaker 2: Powers and Mike Myers had that great joke as Doctor

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Speaker 2: Evil when his hydraulic chair seems possessed. You know, you

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Speaker 2: had a very young priest and a very old priest.

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Speaker 2: That was definitely the first time I ever heard the

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Speaker 2: power of Christ compels you.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, same.

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Speaker 2: I think those two pieces of pop culture converged for

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Speaker 2: me and made me curious about checking out The Exorcist.

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Speaker 2: And I don't know about you, Heigel, but there was

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Speaker 2: also an element of forbidden fruit for me because my

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Speaker 2: mom spoke in what I can only describe as awestruck

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Speaker 2: terms about how the Exorcists scared the hell out of her,

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Speaker 2: and I'm pretty sure this movie is why we weren't

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Speaker 2: allowed to have a Wiji board in the house. I'm

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Speaker 2: pretty sure mister Howdy did a number on her. I reacted, Howdy,

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Speaker 2: how dare you? He was in the military?

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Speaker 1: Excuse me, Major Howdie.

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Speaker 2: I watched this movie last night for the first time

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Speaker 2: in probably twenty years. I started watching it on a

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Speaker 2: full size TV, and then I switched to a laptop

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Speaker 2: because it became too much, and then I minimized the

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Speaker 2: screen on the laptop too, so it was just about

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Speaker 2: three inches square because that was all I could take

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Speaker 2: of The Exorcist. I'm just blown away by how contemporary

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Speaker 2: this film feels, which is again nuts considering.

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Speaker 1: That's years old. It is really amazing. I have. I mean,

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Speaker 1: basically that dovetails with mine. I just and I was

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Speaker 1: reading about it before then because I was such a

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Speaker 1: like I just read about horror movies before I saw them.

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Speaker 1: That's why we're friends. That's one of the many reasons

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Speaker 1: why we're friends. I was doing the Glory Days of

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Speaker 1: Barnes and Noble. Yeah. My parents would just let me

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Speaker 1: get pretty much any book because if I was reading,

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Speaker 1: that was cool. So I would get these huge dumb

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Speaker 1: coffee table books that were like the one hundred greatest

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Speaker 1: horror movies of all time, and then I had one

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Speaker 1: on cult movies and that's where I read about like

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Speaker 1: Yodorovski and David Lynch and all that stuff, and so

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Speaker 1: I knew like everything about these movies before I ever

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Speaker 1: even saw them. And it wasn't like a letdown when

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Speaker 1: I saw it. But I do remember a little bit

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Speaker 1: being like this, this was this like destroyed the Western

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Speaker 1: world for a period of months. Really yeah, I was

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Speaker 1: not like I mean, I remember seeing it, I think

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Speaker 1: around fourteen or fifteen and being like, yeah, this is

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Speaker 1: upsetting and like disorienting and unpleasant, But I don't remember

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Speaker 1: being particularly scared by it because I was kind of

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Speaker 1: just like and you know, apologies to Reagan, but I

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Speaker 1: was like, why not just lock the door because you

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Speaker 1: could use her mind to unlock it. It all kind

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Speaker 1: of happens in the room. All of my fears are

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Speaker 1: about things following me, you know that trying or trying

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Speaker 1: to get into my house. It's like all all of

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Speaker 1: my recurring nightmares are about either like Michael Myers Jason

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Speaker 1: Vorhees esque figures or the dinosaurs from Jurassic Park. Trying

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Speaker 1: to get into my house. None of them involve like

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Speaker 1: a possessed girl away in a locked room. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I grew up with a sister who was a teenager

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Speaker 1: at one point, so I'm familiar with that experience. You

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Speaker 1: just kind of leave him in the room and you

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Speaker 1: go about your day. So but since I've become more

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Speaker 1: you know, of a of a syneezte if you will,

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Speaker 1: it really does blow me away. Just like you said,

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Speaker 1: how contemporary it feels. And the fact that something like

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Speaker 1: this even a came together, yeah, because like the there

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Speaker 1: was no precedent for this other than Rosemary's Baby, and

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Speaker 1: the fact that even came together is nuts. But you know,

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Speaker 1: and then became such an insane like the amount of

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Speaker 1: money this thing made hand over fist, I had no

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Speaker 1: idea And yeah, and you know, Freakin is so fascinating.

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Speaker 1: And I was writing this whole thing with my Twitter

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Speaker 1: mutual Jesse Hassinger, who was on an episode of the

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Speaker 1: New Flesh podcast, which is one of my favorite horror

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Speaker 1: movie podcasts, and he was talking about when William Freakin

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Speaker 1: died and everyone was like, you know, this huge outpouring

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Speaker 1: of grief and sympathy for William Freakin, and he was like, well,

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Speaker 1: you know, I love the French connection and I love

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Speaker 1: the Exorcist, but there's something that always like I just

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Speaker 1: never really got the hero worship around him, or like

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Speaker 1: the obsession with him. And then he breaks into this

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Speaker 1: sarcastic impression where he's like, ah, you know my friend

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Speaker 1: Billy Freakin. You know he would he would shoot guns

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Speaker 1: all the time on the set, and he would say

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Speaker 1: such awful things to everyone all the time. He was mean, ah, Billy,

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Speaker 1: my pal Billy. And it's all I can think of,

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Speaker 1: because he truly was a garbage human. But he has

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Speaker 1: two masterpieces to his name, and if you listen to

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Speaker 1: a bunch of nerds, a couple other really good films.

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Speaker 1: Phil Spector of Cinema, Yeah, the fact that he did

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Speaker 1: this is I think, like, I don't think this would

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Speaker 1: have succeeded in anybody else's hands, to be honest, because

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Speaker 1: you know, the whole the log line on him, or

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Speaker 1: at least the reader's digest version of his directorial style.

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Speaker 1: And also Owen Roysman, who is his cinematographer, is like naturalism,

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Speaker 1: like pseudo documentarian, very dry on the street level filming

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Speaker 1: and that grounds all the ridiculousness of this movie. And

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Speaker 1: that's why I think it feels contemporary. It doesn't have

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Speaker 1: the like Scorsese like nutjob editing or like Dolly zooms,

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Speaker 1: and it just feels so dry and like and I'm

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Speaker 1: speaking purely on like a visual sense, it just feels

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Speaker 1: so ground and real that it's everything that happens is

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Speaker 1: that much more shocking because it's it's like, it's how

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Speaker 1: I kind of feel about the original Halloween, where everything

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Speaker 1: is just kind of like flatly shot. I mean not flat.

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Speaker 1: John carpents these beautiful widescreen compositions, but it's not like

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Speaker 1: snap zoom psychedelic editing. It doesn't even like you you

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Speaker 1: you know, you get that period in the nineties with

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Speaker 1: a lot of horror movies like Scream where the MTV

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Speaker 1: editing comes in and instead of like wipes or cuts,

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Speaker 1: they do like like really obnoxious sound and fast cuts

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Speaker 1: for transition. So get yeah, yeah, yeah, And I don't

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Speaker 1: you know, you just don't get that here, and it's

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Speaker 1: and that's what goes such a long way towards making

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Speaker 1: it effective. I don't know, you're my Lich may vary.

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Speaker 1: That's really interesting.

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Speaker 2: I was actually watching it, and I hadn't prepared to

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Speaker 2: mention this to you, but while watching it, I was

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Speaker 2: trying to think, what are the directors would do something

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Speaker 2: interesting with the source material, because obviously it's based on.

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Speaker 1: A best selling book.

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Speaker 2: I came up with three names, and I'm curious what

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Speaker 2: you think about this, m John Frankenheimer, Roman Polanski, which

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Speaker 2: is kind of too easy, and your beloved w C.

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Speaker 2: Your beloved JC. I just confused John Carpenter with water Closet.

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Speaker 2: I'm sorry he would think that was hilarious.

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Speaker 1: You know, I don't know a ton about Frankenheimer other

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Speaker 1: than manchurin candidate seconds with Rock Hudson. Okay, that's a

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Speaker 1: freaky movie. I would I would. I mean Polanski is,

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Speaker 1: like you said, obvious, but you know, have you ever

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Speaker 1: seen Repulsion? Yeah? Yeah, because I love Downer film. But

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Speaker 1: you know, he would have been great at it. It

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Speaker 1: is funny because Carpenter's early stuff is like like Dark Star,

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Speaker 1: his first film is like so just fantastical, and even

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Speaker 1: stuff like Assault in Precinct thirteen as kind of a

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Speaker 1: fantastical quality into it, and like the gang members are

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Speaker 1: like explicitly supposed to be zombies, like they're not supposed

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Speaker 1: not actual zombies, but like the way that he conceived

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Speaker 1: of it was like what if you made Knight of

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Speaker 1: the Living Dead, but the zombies were gang members, so

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Speaker 1: they're sort of shot in that horror jacent way. And yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, It's it's hard to say. I mean,

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Speaker 1: we have a list of candidates that will read off

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Speaker 1: that shortly. Any who well, from the allegedly possessed kid

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Speaker 1: who inspired the source material and then went on to

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Speaker 1: work for NASA, to the film's supposedly cursed production to

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Speaker 1: the black exploitation rip off that was seized and destroyed

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Speaker 1: by Warner Brothers. Here's everything you didn't know about The Exorcist.

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Speaker 1: I want to do. Oh god, I want to do

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Speaker 1: so many demon impressions. I don't know if I can though,

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Speaker 1: or yeah, what an excellent day for an exorcism, Like

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Speaker 1: there's so much phlem in that. Uh my favorite one

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Speaker 1: is when he like the door slam shut and he's like,

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Speaker 1: did you do that? And she just goes no, so

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Speaker 1: the drawer pops open. Oh right, all right. The exercise

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Speaker 1: is based on the nineteen seventy one novel of the

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Speaker 1: same name by William Peter Bladdie, whose childhood is I

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Speaker 1: would say essential to understanding the work. Born in New York,

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Speaker 1: Bladdy's parents separated when he was a toddler, and he

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Speaker 1: was raised by a deeply religious mother whose sole income

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Speaker 1: came from selling homemade jelly on the streets of Manhattan.

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Speaker 1: Sounds like doctor Evil's origin story. Yeah, exactly. He was

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Speaker 1: beaten with Reed's per Wikipedia. William Peter Bladdie's mother once

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Speaker 1: offered a jar her jam to Franklin D. Roosevelt when

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Speaker 1: the President was in New York cutting the ribbon for

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Speaker 1: the Queen's Midtown Tunnel, telling Roosevelt it's for when you

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Speaker 1: have company. I mean.

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Speaker 2: Now, I wonder how much of the mother in the

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Speaker 2: Exorcist is based on his own.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I don't know. I don't know if it's

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Speaker 1: more she's giving me like Carrie Vibes, actually, like the moment,

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Speaker 1: like Piper Lauri Vibes. True. Yeah, Blady is uh, Bladdy's

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Speaker 1: kind of a head case. Yeah, I feel anyway. So

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Speaker 1: he lived at twenty eight different addresses growing up because

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Speaker 1: they were constantly being evicted because homemade jelly doesn't bills. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't pay the bills. He attended a Jesuit prep

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Speaker 1: school on a scholarship and graduated as valedictorian, thus beginning

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Speaker 1: his lifelong loolf affair with the Jesuits, and then subsequently

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Speaker 1: attended Georgetown University in DC and then George Washington University,

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Speaker 1: where he earned his Masters in English lit. He then

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Speaker 1: enrolled in the Air Force and worked for the CIA

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Speaker 1: in Lebanon in the nineteen fifties, and then returning to DC,

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Speaker 1: became Policy Branch Chief of the Psychological Warfare Division of

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Speaker 1: the Air Force. Now, as you might imagine, I was

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Speaker 1: not able to find the details of what Bladdie did

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Speaker 1: as a psychological warfare expert for the Air Force, but

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Speaker 1: I was able to piece together a somewhat tenuous connection.

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Speaker 1: In one of Bladdie's books, he quotes this guy named

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Speaker 1: doctor Tom Dooley, and Dooley was one of the Americans

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Speaker 1: who were involved in the campaign in Vietnam to get

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Speaker 1: the Catholics to move from the north to the south.

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Speaker 1: And they did this in the crudest way possible, which

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Speaker 1: was by simply broadcasting the message through churches and local

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Speaker 1: radio stations that said, the Virgin Mary has departed from

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Speaker 1: the North and Christ has gone to the South and

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Speaker 1: it was successful. So that's a guy Bladdie at least

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Speaker 1: looked up to, and it went into Bladdy's career as

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Speaker 1: a writer. And that's not even the weirdest thing that

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Speaker 1: we'll get to. Yes, But Jordan tell us about another

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Speaker 1: popular psychological campaign.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there was a campaign during the Vietnam War conflict

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Speaker 2: called Operation Wandering Soul, which was a.

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Speaker 1: Morale decimation technique where the American Trumpy Booster would broadcast

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Speaker 1: over the jungles at night to the viet Cong these

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Speaker 1: horrific sounds and music and these ethereal disembodied voices claiming

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Speaker 1: to be of the war dead, essentially warning everybody to surrender. Basically,

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Speaker 1: these ghostly voices I think from the sky. Weren't they

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Speaker 1: broadcast from speakers over helicopters or it could be from anything. Really,

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Speaker 1: are you asking me is if I have a validation

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Speaker 1: of this obscure American war atrocity. I wonder if Bladdie

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Speaker 1: had anything to do with that.

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Speaker 2: It sounds like something you would have gotten mixed up in,

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Speaker 2: all the way down to the weird sound effects, right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So Bladdie's first book is CO which Way to Mecca.

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Speaker 1: Jack I was published in nineteen six. It is a

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Speaker 1: humorous biographical work which tells of his irl long con

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Speaker 1: masquerade as a Saudi Arabian prince in Los Angeles, really

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Speaker 1: and in fact, while still in character, I guess you

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Speaker 1: want to say as this prince. Blady appeared as a

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Speaker 1: contestant on Groucho Marx's game show You Bet Your Life,

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Speaker 1: and he won ten grand, which was enough to allow

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Speaker 1: him to quit his job and write full time.

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Speaker 2: Isn't there a story about Sylvester Stallone being so broke

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Speaker 2: when he wrote Rocky he had to sell his dog

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Speaker 2: and the first thing he did when he sold the

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Speaker 2: script was.

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Speaker 1: Clow's dog back. I did not know that, but that

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Speaker 1: is Dickensian.

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Speaker 2: I was trying to find incidents of weird financial windfalls

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Speaker 2: that writers got that allowed them to, like, you know,

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Speaker 2: write their big breakthrough, and that was kind of the

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Speaker 2: closest thing I got. Yeah, just because I feel like

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Speaker 2: we're never going to talk about the game show You

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Speaker 2: Bet Your Life again, I just want to tell the

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Speaker 2: story about Groucho Marx's probably most infamous ad lib, which

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Speaker 2: kind of sort of didn't really happen, just to g

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Speaker 2: add a little levity to.

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Speaker 1: This fairly dark episode. Go ahead.

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Speaker 2: There's a famous urban legend that a woman named Charlotte's

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Speaker 2: Story came on that You Bet Your Life show and

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Speaker 2: revealed to Groucho Marx that she had twenty children, and

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Speaker 2: when Groucho asked why she had chosen to raise such

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Speaker 2: a large family, missus story, they said to have replied,

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Speaker 2: I love my husband, that's why, to which Marx responded supposedly,

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Speaker 2: I love my cigar, but I take it out of

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Speaker 2: my mouth once in a while, which in the fifties, yeah,

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Speaker 2: oh yeah. According to legend, this remark was judged too

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Speaker 2: risky to be aired, and according to the anecdote, it

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Speaker 2: was edited out before the episode of You Bet Your

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Speaker 2: Life was broadcast.

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Speaker 1: There are elements of truth to this.

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Speaker 2: Marion and Charlotte's Story were parents of twenty children, and

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Speaker 2: they had appeared as contestants on the radio version of

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Speaker 2: You Bet Your Life nineteen fifty. Audio recordings of this episode, exist,

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Speaker 2: but there is no evidence of the infamous line. Graucho

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Speaker 2: himself denied that the incident never took place. He told

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Speaker 2: Roger Ebert in nineteen seventy two, I get credit all

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Speaker 2: the time for things. I never said, you know that

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Speaker 2: line and you bet your life? The guy says he

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Speaker 2: has seventeen kids, and I say, I smoke a cigar,

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Speaker 2: but I take it out of my mouth occasionally.

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Speaker 1: I never said that.

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Speaker 2: I mean, Groucho is one of the great you know,

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Speaker 2: if you've got a great line, He's up there with

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Speaker 2: Yogi Barra for you know quotables. Yeah, Snopes has dismissed

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Speaker 2: this urban legend as well, which is sad to me.

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Speaker 2: But speaking of Graucho, there's a story that Friedkin tried

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Speaker 2: to add some levity to the set of The Exorcist

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Speaker 2: by having a scene when Father Marin enters the house,

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Speaker 2: remove his hat and reveal himself to be Graucho Marx,

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Speaker 2: because I guess he stayed in touch with William Peter

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Speaker 2: Blattie after his victorious turn on You Bet Your Life.

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Speaker 1: But that's accord, I know right. Well, wait, it didn't

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Speaker 1: actually happen because, according to this myth, which I have

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Speaker 1: not been able to completely verify, but I choose to

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Speaker 1: believe it, Freakin was sick the day that Groucho was

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Speaker 1: going to come onto the set, and so the idea

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Speaker 1: was scrapped. Well, if Bladdy was a prolific writer. He

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Speaker 1: wrote a lot of not just comedic novels, but also screenplays,

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Speaker 1: which is so weird.

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Speaker 2: One of his screenplays was A Shot in the Dark,

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Speaker 2: which is one of the Pink Panther movies starring my

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Speaker 2: beloved Peter Sellers as INSPECTACLEUSA. He also wrote what I

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Speaker 2: can only describe as the Anti Exorcist. He wrote a

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Speaker 2: nineteen seventy Henry Mancini musical starring Rock Hudson and Julie

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Speaker 2: Andrews called Darling Lily.

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Speaker 1: Huh Well, uh, where were we Yes? Blady eventually turned

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Speaker 1: back to fiction and delivered The Exorcist. The book was

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Speaker 1: inspired by a nineteen forty nine case of alleged demonic

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Speaker 1: possession and exorcism that Bloody heard about while he was

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Speaker 1: a student at Georgetown, which is why the university figured

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Speaker 1: so heavily into the plot of the movie. Eugene Gallagher,

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Speaker 1: who is one of his professors and a priest. Excuse me,

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Speaker 1: Father Eugene Gallagher was a priest at the Jesuit College,

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Speaker 1: told Bladdie about a boy who was believed to be

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Speaker 1: in the throes of demonic possession but had been saved

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Speaker 1: through a series of exorcisms in Maryland and Missouri in

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Speaker 1: nineteen forty nine. It took six weeks to exercise him.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, it's a process, a lot of chanting.

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Speaker 1: After decades of only being known as Roland Doe or

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Speaker 1: Robbie Mannheim, the boy in question was identified in twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty one to be Ronald Edwin Hunkler, who went on

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Speaker 1: to a career with NASA, where he patented technology to

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Speaker 1: make space shuttles and their panels resistant to extreme heat,

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Speaker 1: helping the Apollo missions of the nineteen sixties From the

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Speaker 1: Depths of Hell to the Moon the Ronald Hunkler Story

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Speaker 1: Hell to the Heavens. Oh yeah, I know. Hunkler was

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Speaker 1: born in nineteen thirty five, and it was fourteen when

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Speaker 1: he supposedly heard knocking and scratching sounds coming from his

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Speaker 1: bed room walls like that. No, I don't well, now

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Speaker 1: I know what's going into my psychological campaign against you.

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Speaker 1: From there, things basically unfolded in the exact manner of

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Speaker 1: the book and movie. And this may have been because

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Speaker 1: I have read that both Bladdie and Friedkin at points

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Speaker 1: got a copy of the notes that the exercising priests

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Speaker 1: made during this whole six week process, allegedly from Robert J. Henley,

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Speaker 1: who is the president of Georgetown at the time. Sounds

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Speaker 1: grossly unethical, but you know whatever. The family's minister wrote

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Speaker 1: to Duke University's Parapsychology lab about what was going on

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Speaker 1: with Hunkler, detailing how chairs moved with him and one

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Speaker 1: threw him out of it, his bed shook whenever he

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Speaker 1: was in it, and tables overturned, furniture slid across the floor,

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Speaker 1: and a picture of Christ on the wall shook in

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Speaker 1: the boy's presence. Hunkler's mother apparently lamed this on an

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Speaker 1: aunt of his who is a spiritualist, and she had

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Speaker 1: taught the boy how to use a Ouiji board. Dun Dun, Dun.

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Speaker 1: I am now on the Parapsychology Department at Duke University website.

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Speaker 1: On the landing page there is a picture of one

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Speaker 1: of their professors in the fifties testing a dog. They're

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Speaker 1: just at a table and the logo for this, I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna send it to you so that you can verify

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Speaker 1: this because it sounds like I'm making it up. Is

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Speaker 1: the devil reading a book? Yeah, you know, North Carolina

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Speaker 1: in the research triangle has like a whole thing with yes, yep,

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Speaker 1: that is true. Jb Ryan testing a dog and scroll

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Speaker 1: all the way down. Yep. That is a logo of

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Speaker 1: the devil with a pitchfork in one hand and a

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Speaker 1: textbook in the other other A little bit on the nose, guys.

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Speaker 1: So Hungleer underwent a series of medical and psychological tests,

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Speaker 1: and then his family sought out religious teaatures, beginning with

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Speaker 1: a Protestant pastor, and we all know the Protestants, like

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Speaker 1: what are they going to do? You know? Things proceeded

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Speaker 1: to the point where he was moved to Saint Louis

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Speaker 1: for an exorcism, and that's where a lot of other

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Speaker 1: aspects from the book in film, like the messages that

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Speaker 1: we were supposedly scratched into his body, took place. By

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Speaker 1: mid April, the boy was back to normal. So this

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Speaker 1: story was then written up in the Washington Post in

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Speaker 1: August of nineteen forty nine, where Bladdie's professor presumably read it,

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Speaker 1: and we were off to the races. Though the case

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Speaker 1: was well known in Jesuit circles for years after the exorcism,

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Speaker 1: several authors began sniffing into the story, including a guy

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Speaker 1: named Mark o'pasnik, who was among the first to research

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Speaker 1: the story in a twenty sixteen book called The Real

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Speaker 1: Story Behind the Exorcist, in which he concluded, there is

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Speaker 1: simply too much evidence that indicates as a boy, Roland

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Speaker 1: Doe had serious emotional problems stemming from his home life.

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Speaker 1: There is not one shred of hard evidence to support

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Speaker 1: the notion of demonic possession. In another book, Diabolical Possession

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Speaker 1: and the Case Behind the Exorcist, a writer named Sergio

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Speaker 1: Rueda reported a friend of the family explained that hunker

390
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Speaker 1: was spoiled by his father and his mother was stricter

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Speaker 1: but very superstitious, leading the aforementioned family priest, the Protestant,

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Speaker 1: to initially believe that Hunkler may have manipulated her, to

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Speaker 1: which I say no. Uh. This is great, great scoop

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Speaker 1: by The New York Post in twenty twenty one, they

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Speaker 1: tracked down a female companion of twenty nine years of

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Speaker 1: Hunkler who described him as not religious, and she told

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Speaker 1: the paper he said he wasn't possessed. It was all concocted.

398
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Speaker 1: He said, I was just a bad boy. The Post

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Speaker 1: confirmed that Hunkler died in twenty twenty at the age

400
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Speaker 1: of eighty five and was cremated, though not before receiving

401
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Speaker 1: the Catholic last rites from a priest who showed up

402
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Speaker 1: at their home without being called to do so. No no, no,

403
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Speaker 1: no no no. Did you then walk through the door

404
00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:59,120
Speaker 1: without opening it as he departed? D? D dun d

405
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Speaker 1: D all right, sorry, keep going anyway.

406
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Speaker 2: This story of exorcism stayed lodged in William Peter Bladdie's

407
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Speaker 2: mind for years. I wasn't just impressed, I was excited,

408
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Speaker 2: he later wrote of reading the Washington Post story in

409
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Speaker 2: his nineteen seventy four book William Peter Bladdie On the

410
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Speaker 2: Exorcist From Novel to Film.

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Speaker 1: He explained too about it, for here, at last, in

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Speaker 1: this city, in my time, was tangible evidence of transcendence.

413
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Speaker 1: If there were demons, they were angels and probably a

414
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Speaker 1: god and a life everlasting, but no so. Being Catholic.

415
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Speaker 1: He died in twenty seventeen, four years before. This guy

416
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Speaker 1: admitted that he made the whole possession thing up, which,

417
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Speaker 1: in a way I'm glad, Yeah, you know, that would

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Speaker 1: have really puked him out. That would have probably destroyed him.

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Speaker 2: After seeing a film adaptation of Ira Evans Rosemary's Baby

420
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Speaker 2: in nineteen sixty eight by the aforementioned Ruman Polanski. Bladdie

421
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Speaker 2: was inspired to tack called the Exorcist Project, believing he

422
00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:05,840
Speaker 2: could improve on what he thought was Rosemary's Baby's cheesy ending.

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Speaker 1: He pitched the one of the most dowter and horrifying

424
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Speaker 1: endings of all time? What have you done to its eyes? Like? Oh,

425
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Speaker 1: the cheesy, the cheesier his words, not mine, I should

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Speaker 1: say yes, bladd He pitched his story to an editor

427
00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:24,400
Speaker 1: at Bantam Books at a cocktail party. That is some

428
00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:27,840
Speaker 1: heavy stuff for cocktail chit chat. Hey, I want to

429
00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:30,879
Speaker 1: write a novel about demonic possession. Yeah, it's based on

430
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:34,639
Speaker 1: a real story of this kid. He received a twenty

431
00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:37,399
Speaker 1: five thousand dollars advance, which is well over two hundred

432
00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:40,520
Speaker 1: thousand dollars in today's money. Ah publishing in the mid

433
00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:41,560
Speaker 1: twentieth century.

434
00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:44,760
Speaker 2: How a cocktail chit chat can turn into a quarter

435
00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:47,720
Speaker 2: million dollars. He started writing the book at home and

436
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:51,520
Speaker 2: in Sino California, bolstered by speed pills, which.

437
00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:56,320
Speaker 1: Helped him write sixteen hours a day the mid sixties. Yes,

438
00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:02,159
Speaker 1: what a great life. Quarter million dollar advanced check your

439
00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:04,919
Speaker 1: bowl of pills? What board does a man need?

440
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:09,320
Speaker 2: Characters in his Exorcist novel were inspired by real life figures.

441
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:13,400
Speaker 2: Bladdy had met a British archaeologist named Gerald Lancaster Harding

442
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:14,320
Speaker 2: and be Root.

443
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:18,119
Speaker 1: Presumably during his time in Can I just say that

444
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:23,240
Speaker 1: he was a CIA spook? He must have been, yeah, yeah, yeah.

445
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:26,240
Speaker 1: This man excavated the caves where the Dead Sea scrolls

446
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:29,240
Speaker 1: had been found, which I can only imagine what Elsie

447
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:33,879
Speaker 1: found that he didn't tell us about. So this archaeologist,

448
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:39,040
Speaker 1: plus a Jesuit theologian named Pierre Telhard de Chardon, who's

449
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:42,040
Speaker 1: also a trained archaeologist, went into the character of Father

450
00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:47,840
Speaker 1: Lancaster Marin, who was played by Max Valoncido. Other historical

451
00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:51,600
Speaker 1: exorcisms appear in the novel, The Ledune Possessions, a notorious

452
00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:54,600
Speaker 1: witchcraft trial that took place in France in sixteen thirty four,

453
00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:58,600
Speaker 1: and the Luvial Possession, which took place in Normandy a

454
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:01,040
Speaker 1: little over a decade later. They get mentioned as part

455
00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:03,680
Speaker 1: of the research that Father Charis does. Character of the

456
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:06,480
Speaker 1: book also tells a story about a fraudulent medium who

457
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:08,760
Speaker 1: had studied to be a Jesuit priest. That was a

458
00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:13,160
Speaker 1: real account published in the Proceedings of the Society for

459
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:21,800
Speaker 1: Psychical Research, Volume one, fourteen, nineteen thirty. Psychical. Ah, psychical. Yeah.

460
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:25,600
Speaker 1: Bladdy didn't look particularly far for his inspiration for Reagan's

461
00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:28,160
Speaker 1: mother Chris McNeil, though at one point he lived next

462
00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:31,800
Speaker 1: door to actress Shirley McClain, whose name is almost an

463
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:36,000
Speaker 1: anagram for McNeil, and when Bladdy knew McLain, she, like

464
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:38,800
Speaker 1: the actress Chris McNeil in the book, had him married

465
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:42,640
Speaker 1: European couples, her household staff, and Bladdie even incorporated real

466
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:45,520
Speaker 1: life quotes from Shirley McLain into the novel's dialogue. So

467
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:49,680
Speaker 1: there's your if you take away one bit of pub

468
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:52,480
Speaker 1: trivia from this. Chris McNeil on the Exercis is based

469
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:54,960
Speaker 1: on Shirley McLain, which kind of makes.

470
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:57,240
Speaker 2: A lot of sense, because Shirley McLain is a real freak,

471
00:26:57,280 --> 00:26:58,920
Speaker 2: and I mean that in the best way.

472
00:26:58,960 --> 00:26:59,600
Speaker 1: Did you know this?

473
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:00,359
Speaker 3: No?

474
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:01,120
Speaker 1: I didn't.

475
00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:05,639
Speaker 2: Oh, she's famously into all sorts of supernatural phenomena. Wrote

476
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:08,240
Speaker 2: a book that actually my girlfriend was reading recently, a

477
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:11,119
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty three book called Out on a limb in

478
00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 2: which she discusses all manner of New Age topics, from reincarnation, meditation, trance, channeling,

479
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:20,840
Speaker 2: and even UFOs. For example, she's claimed that in a

480
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:24,080
Speaker 2: previous life, she lived in Atlantis and was a brother

481
00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:29,240
Speaker 2: of a thirty five thousand year old spirit named Ramtha. Okay, yeah,

482
00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:33,400
Speaker 2: and Jimmy Carter. She's apparently such a well known expert

483
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:36,240
Speaker 2: on the topic. Jimmy Carter asked her to speak about

484
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:39,400
Speaker 2: UFOs with him, which she has claimed to have seen

485
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:42,760
Speaker 2: many times from her ranch in the southwestern United States.

486
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:46,000
Speaker 2: So she's pretty cool to be a fly on that wall,

487
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:48,560
Speaker 2: Jimmy Carter and trym McLain's talking about UFOs.

488
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:54,879
Speaker 1: Yeah. The Inexorcist initially received mixed reviews and not much coverage.

489
00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:57,879
Speaker 1: Laddy was on a twenty six city book tour, and

490
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:00,280
Speaker 1: he kept arriving in cities to find the bookstore who

491
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:02,639
Speaker 1: were uncomfortable with the work had returned to their copies

492
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:05,800
Speaker 1: to the publisher. But the book's fortunes were turned around

493
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:09,760
Speaker 1: by a stroke of completely random luck. Bladdie had pre

494
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:13,399
Speaker 1: auditioned to be on Your Beloved Cavitt Show weeks before

495
00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:16,439
Speaker 1: and had been told not to expect an invitation. A

496
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:19,359
Speaker 1: producer told him, Kavit's a total non believer and he'll

497
00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:21,399
Speaker 1: just wrinkle up his nose at this. But then a

498
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:23,439
Speaker 1: guest had to drop out at the last minute, and

499
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:27,359
Speaker 1: the show reached up to Bladdie and they he and

500
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:29,639
Speaker 1: Kvit had an on air conversation about whether or not

501
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:32,280
Speaker 1: the Devil actually existed, and it was so made for

502
00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:35,720
Speaker 1: such good TV that the book was number one on

503
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:38,960
Speaker 1: the New York Times bestseller list two weeks later, stayed

504
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:41,280
Speaker 1: there for four months, parking in the top ten for

505
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:44,920
Speaker 1: over a year. Ultimately, it sold more than thirteen million

506
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:48,560
Speaker 1: copies in the United States alone, perhaps fittingly given that

507
00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:51,760
Speaker 1: he was inspired by Rosemary's Baby, another book into prestige

508
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:54,680
Speaker 1: film adaptation, Bladdy had an eye on a film version

509
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:58,840
Speaker 1: of The Exorcist from the beginning. One early stumbling point

510
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 1: was that he insisted that he write the screenplay and

511
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:05,720
Speaker 1: be attached as a producer, something that caused Shirley McLean's

512
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:07,600
Speaker 1: people to drop out of working on the film with him.

513
00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:10,640
Speaker 1: He also, at one point, I think, offered to forfeit

514
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:14,920
Speaker 1: all of his royalties from it to Freakin if Freakin

515
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:19,120
Speaker 1: would let him play father karis So, Gladdy's insistence on

516
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:22,240
Speaker 1: inserting himself into this film at any and all costs

517
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:26,120
Speaker 1: to his personal and professional reputation is truly a thing

518
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:30,080
Speaker 1: to behold, a lesson to us all. Among the early

519
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:33,360
Speaker 1: directors floated for the project were Stanley Kubrick, Arthur Penn,

520
00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:37,360
Speaker 1: Peter Bogdanovitch, and Mike Nichols. But Bladdy also supposedly had

521
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:40,360
Speaker 1: William Friedkin in mind from a start, but Freakin was

522
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:43,960
Speaker 1: considered unknown quantity, and it wasn't until everyone else had passed,

523
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:47,120
Speaker 1: and then the French connection came out and was a

524
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:51,880
Speaker 1: huge hit that Warner Brothers acquiesced. Bladdy was surprised when

525
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:54,760
Speaker 1: Freedkin asked him to redo the screenplay to make it

526
00:29:55,160 --> 00:30:00,240
Speaker 1: as accurate to the book's dialogue as possible. In the

527
00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:03,480
Speaker 1: aforementioned book, one of his books on the subject, he wrote,

528
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:06,280
Speaker 1: even where changes I'd made in the dialogue were only slight,

529
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:09,200
Speaker 1: Billy would cringe and asked that I keep the dialogue

530
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:12,200
Speaker 1: exactly as it had been in the book. Some subplots

531
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:14,440
Speaker 1: were trimmed, and there were other changes made to keep

532
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:17,160
Speaker 1: things from going too far off the rails. The crucifix

533
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:20,800
Speaker 1: scene in the book was more prolonged and explicit, and

534
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:23,840
Speaker 1: the film also declined to mention that in the book, Reagan,

535
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:33,680
Speaker 1: while possessed, suffered from constant diarrhea. That's my edit of

536
00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:36,760
Speaker 1: the Exorcist. I do re edit of the entire film

537
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:43,440
Speaker 1: is just put constant farting and noises in there. I'm

538
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:46,240
Speaker 1: a child freaking recalled to the Hollywood Reporter that he'd

539
00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:49,560
Speaker 1: once taken a meeting about directing a film adaptation of

540
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:53,640
Speaker 1: Peter Gunn, and he said, I didn't care for the

541
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:56,560
Speaker 1: script at all, and said so in rather graphic terms.

542
00:30:57,120 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 1: As I was leaving the office to go to the

543
00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 1: parking lot at Paramount, along comes this fellow who introduced

544
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:04,920
Speaker 1: himself as Bill Blattie. I didn't know he'd written the script,

545
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:08,040
Speaker 1: but he said, thanks for saying that. We all think

546
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:10,800
Speaker 1: the script needs a lot of work. I appreciate that

547
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:13,040
Speaker 1: you were honest, even if it cost you a job.

548
00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:17,480
Speaker 1: Bladdie was apparently so struck by this moment that, despite

549
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:20,960
Speaker 1: not seeing anything Friedkin had directed in the intervening years,

550
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:24,040
Speaker 1: sent him a copy of the Exorcist. While he was

551
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:27,240
Speaker 1: on a press tour for the French Connection, Freakin canceled

552
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:31,239
Speaker 1: his appointments that night and read the book overnight and

553
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:34,280
Speaker 1: loved it. He got back in touch with Bladdie, and

554
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:37,560
Speaker 1: Freakin recalled Blattie telling him, You're the only director I've

555
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:40,720
Speaker 1: met who hasn't bullshited me. I really appreciate that, and

556
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:42,520
Speaker 1: I think that's the kind of relationship I need to

557
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:44,400
Speaker 1: get this story made the way I'd like to see

558
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 1: it made. And then Bladdy added freaking kept threatening Warners

559
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:53,000
Speaker 1: that he'd go on Johnny Carson and tell Carson's audience

560
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:56,120
Speaker 1: that Warners was going to hire a director he didn't want.

561
00:31:57,200 --> 00:31:59,720
Speaker 1: What a dick. I love him so much.

562
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:06,400
Speaker 2: In addition, too is appreciating Friedkin's ability to give it

563
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:09,160
Speaker 2: to him straight. He also, as you mentioned earlier, like

564
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:11,440
Speaker 2: the realism of the French connection, which is something that

565
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:15,800
Speaker 2: he wanted for this film as well. Mike Nichols would

566
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:18,600
Speaker 2: have been a really interesting choice to direct The Exorcist

567
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:21,600
Speaker 2: because I mean I mostly think of him as you know,

568
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:23,560
Speaker 2: being one half of Nichols and May the comedy duo

569
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 2: and directing The Graduate.

570
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:27,760
Speaker 1: But he also directed The Day of the Dolphin. Have

571
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:30,400
Speaker 1: you ever heard of this movie, The Day of the Dolphin?

572
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:34,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's this weird Roman Polanski was working on it

573
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:37,040
Speaker 2: when Sharon Tate was killed and he ended up stepping

574
00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:39,960
Speaker 2: back for obvious reasons to recover, and it went to

575
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:43,840
Speaker 2: Mike Nichols. It's this weird, like I guess you'd call

576
00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:48,120
Speaker 2: it a psychological thriller movie about government operatives trying to

577
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:52,280
Speaker 2: teach dolphins how to communicate with humans. It's really this

578
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:55,840
Speaker 2: bizarre sci fi thriller movie. So in a weird way,

579
00:32:55,960 --> 00:33:00,400
Speaker 2: the Roman Polansky to Mike Nichols to sense it makes

580
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:03,800
Speaker 2: some weird sort of sense. Yeah, well, freaking said of

581
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:07,160
Speaker 2: the other directors who turned down the project. Stanley Kubrick said,

582
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:09,640
Speaker 2: I only like to develop my own stuff, and he

583
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:11,800
Speaker 2: changed his attitude about that when he did the Shining,

584
00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:14,440
Speaker 2: but that was his excuse. Arthur Penn had just done

585
00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 2: Bonning Clyde and said he didn't want to do anything

586
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:19,720
Speaker 2: else about violence, especially with a child. Nichols thought it

587
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:21,720
Speaker 2: was going to be impossible to pin this story on

588
00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:24,120
Speaker 2: the acting of a twelve year old girl. None of

589
00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:25,080
Speaker 2: this stuff bothered me.

590
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:28,560
Speaker 1: Who do you think was a bigger bastard Bladier Freakin

591
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:32,640
Speaker 1: Probably I think, yeah, I don't think Blady was as

592
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:36,160
Speaker 1: cruel as freaking I think he was just on a

593
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:40,760
Speaker 1: level he did work as a CIA psychological warfare. Well,

594
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:44,840
Speaker 1: that's true. Bladdy is so fascinating to me, just he's

595
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:54,080
Speaker 1: so Catholic and just like such a unique, uh psychological makeup.

596
00:33:55,640 --> 00:34:02,480
Speaker 1: I don't I don't know, uh, but yeah, I think

597
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:09,640
Speaker 1: it was freaking Jack Nicholson was floated as an early

598
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:11,480
Speaker 1: choice to play Kris.

599
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:15,200
Speaker 2: I guess freaking thought he was quote too unholy to

600
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:16,640
Speaker 2: get away with playing a priest.

601
00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:20,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, which is hilarious considering he would actually go on

602
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:24,440
Speaker 1: to play the devil in The Witches of Eastwick. Oh yeah.

603
00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:28,799
Speaker 1: Roy Schneider and Paul Newman were also floated soon I know,

604
00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:31,080
Speaker 1: but this was just part of the chorus at the

605
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:33,120
Speaker 1: tail end of the sixties. They were just throwing those

606
00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:37,560
Speaker 1: guys anything, and so was Gene Hackman.

607
00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:41,840
Speaker 2: I can see that really working because he would have

608
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:43,719
Speaker 2: been fresh off his role as a priest who was

609
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:46,720
Speaker 2: losing his faith in the Poseidon Adventure. And he also

610
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:49,320
Speaker 2: has his background with William Friedkin in the French Connection.

611
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:51,760
Speaker 2: I almost wonder if it was two on the nose

612
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:54,239
Speaker 2: and that's why he didn't either accept it or get it.

613
00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:55,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, that makes sense.

614
00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:59,799
Speaker 2: I also saw that mash star Alan Alda was either

615
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:02,960
Speaker 2: off for the roller or encouraged to audition, but he.

616
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:05,759
Speaker 1: Declined because he didn't like the book. Hey, the Power

617
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:08,640
Speaker 1: of Christ compels you. That's really good. And I get

618
00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:15,799
Speaker 1: another martini in here. Wow, that's really good. Wait two more? No,

619
00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:19,600
Speaker 1: that's all you can get? Wow. I've never heard your

620
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:25,600
Speaker 1: allan all though? Can you radar? No? I don't. He's

621
00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:29,960
Speaker 1: a helium for that. Yeah, yeah, I've also heard al

622
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:33,960
Speaker 1: Paccino was considered, which he kind of looks like Jason

623
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:37,600
Speaker 1: Miller with the sad eyes and the Yeah, he's Italian,

624
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:41,600
Speaker 1: so it's automatically half the Catholic points there. I like

625
00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:48,160
Speaker 1: to imagine late era scent of a woman Pacino throws

626
00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:50,520
Speaker 1: the Holy water on her, she arrives and say, oh ah,

627
00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:57,640
Speaker 1: too easy, too easy? How could you do? Late era

628
00:35:57,719 --> 00:36:03,959
Speaker 1: Pagino doing the Power of Christ compels you just yeah, yeah,

629
00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:07,440
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know. Butino has he done

630
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:13,799
Speaker 1: anything like explicitly Catholic? Do you think he's super? I mean, yeah,

631
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:22,280
Speaker 1: I don't think so. Cerpico, eh, has Piccino ever played

632
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:25,520
Speaker 1: a priest? Now? He was also the Devil again, another

633
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:27,319
Speaker 1: actor who went on to play the devil in The

634
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:32,920
Speaker 1: Devil's Advocate. Oh right, wow, the Exorcist to playing Satan Pipeline.

635
00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:38,520
Speaker 1: The role anyway ended up going to record scratch character

636
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:44,440
Speaker 1: actor Stacy Keach. It yeah, I don't even I had

637
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 1: no idea, but apparently Keach was like quite a young

638
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:49,200
Speaker 1: Turk on the theater scene at the time. He was

639
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:52,839
Speaker 1: thirty and had all this huge ground swell of theatrical

640
00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:56,480
Speaker 1: enthusiasm for him based on work that he'd done on Broadway.

641
00:36:56,520 --> 00:37:00,839
Speaker 1: Off Broadway, but fate conspired to bring Free Weaken and

642
00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:04,440
Speaker 1: actor writer Jason Miller together. Freakin was watching Miller performing

643
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:07,080
Speaker 1: in the play that he had written, The Championship Season,

644
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:10,840
Speaker 1: which later won a Pulitzer on Broadway, and asked to

645
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:13,200
Speaker 1: speak with him. He wanted to pick his brain about

646
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:16,600
Speaker 1: the themes of lapsed Catholicism in both Miller's play and

647
00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:21,279
Speaker 1: The Exorcist. Miller at the time before Championship Season, Broke

648
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:23,080
Speaker 1: was kind of a nobody. He was working as a

649
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:29,600
Speaker 1: milk delivery man in Flushing Sounds Grim. Freakin off handedly

650
00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:31,960
Speaker 1: gave Miller his copy of The Exorcist, and he was

651
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:34,520
Speaker 1: surprised when Miller called him back after reading the novel

652
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:38,120
Speaker 1: and told him that guy is me, And in fairness

653
00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:41,760
Speaker 1: to Stacy Keach, whose contract had already been signed, Miller

654
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:43,759
Speaker 1: had gone to Catholic school and had at one point

655
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:47,080
Speaker 1: even studied to be a Jesuit priest for three years

656
00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:51,400
Speaker 1: at Catholic University of America in DC until experiencing a

657
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:54,279
Speaker 1: crisis of faith. So he actually, yes, he was that guy.

658
00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:57,760
Speaker 1: Freaking thanked him, but told ke He told him Stacy

659
00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:00,759
Speaker 1: Keach has already the ink dries on the deal. Undeterred,

660
00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:03,520
Speaker 1: Miller asked for a screen test, took a train to

661
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:07,000
Speaker 1: la literally across the country to do a scene with

662
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:10,759
Speaker 1: Ellen Burston, and then after that, Freakin had burst in

663
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:13,879
Speaker 1: interview Miller about his life and this was apparently something

664
00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:15,960
Speaker 1: he did also with Linda Blair, where he just had

665
00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:20,080
Speaker 1: Ellen Burston facing away from the camera just talking to

666
00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:23,280
Speaker 1: Jason Miller and Linda Blair and just kind of asking

667
00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:27,239
Speaker 1: them documentary style, journalist style questions about their life. And

668
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:30,879
Speaker 1: then he had Jason Miller give a Catholic mass as

669
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:34,000
Speaker 1: if he was doing it for the first time. Hell

670
00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:37,279
Speaker 1: of an audition. This is all from Freakin's autobiography, which

671
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:39,520
Speaker 1: I would be remissing my duties. If I didn't mention

672
00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:45,839
Speaker 1: was called the Freakin connection, it would only be better

673
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:55,040
Speaker 1: if he called it the freedkinsists. Yes, he really should

674
00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:58,799
Speaker 1: have called it that considering his directing style. Miller had

675
00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:01,120
Speaker 1: obviously done stage at but he had never appeared in

676
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:04,600
Speaker 1: a film, and Freedkin was swayed by, in his own words,

677
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:09,720
Speaker 1: Miller's dark good looks, haunted eyes, quiet intensity, and low

678
00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:16,400
Speaker 1: compassionate voice. He does have quite the haunted men to him.

679
00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:20,239
Speaker 1: So the studio bought out Stacy Keach's contract at Freakin's insistence.

680
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:25,000
Speaker 1: There's a great documentary called Leap of Faith where Freakin

681
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:27,200
Speaker 1: just basically sits in a chair and talks about the

682
00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:32,120
Speaker 1: Exorcist at the screen for like two hours. What a guy,

683
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:33,080
Speaker 1: Billy Freakin.

684
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:36,600
Speaker 2: It's a quick word about father Karas's mother, who is

685
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:40,280
Speaker 2: played by val Silk Mabiarus.

686
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:47,400
Speaker 1: How's that? Yeah? Sure, pretty good. She was reportedly discovered

687
00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:51,200
Speaker 1: by Freakin in a Greek restaurant, and like Jason Miller,

688
00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:53,919
Speaker 1: she'd had no film experience prior to this, she'd only

689
00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:57,920
Speaker 1: done Greek stage dramas, and she was reportedly cast because

690
00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:01,319
Speaker 1: she reminded both Freedkin and William Peter Bladdie of their

691
00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:06,080
Speaker 1: mothers Jesus. Uh well, this is the point where we

692
00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:08,799
Speaker 1: all have to do Why you do this to me?

693
00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:13,720
Speaker 1: Why you do this to me? Uh So? After losing

694
00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:17,720
Speaker 1: Sherloan McLain, Jane Fonda was another choice to play Chris McNeil.

695
00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:21,759
Speaker 1: She was deemed too beautiful no William freaking said that.

696
00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:25,279
Speaker 1: She responded in a telegram, why would any studio want

697
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:26,839
Speaker 1: to make this capitalist rip off?

698
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:32,200
Speaker 2: Bullsh what's capitalist about demonic possession?

699
00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:35,440
Speaker 1: You know she was in our hanoid Jane face, so

700
00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:39,279
Speaker 1: it's probably just called everything capitalist rip off? And then

701
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:44,560
Speaker 1: she married Ted Turner the definition of capitalism, so and bullshit.

702
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:49,719
Speaker 1: Later she supposedly apologized, clarifying the reason I didn't want

703
00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:51,560
Speaker 1: to do it is because I don't believe in magic.

704
00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:57,160
Speaker 1: Oh surely didn't make her Mandy friends in the Catholic Church,

705
00:40:57,280 --> 00:41:01,160
Speaker 1: referring to religion as magic. Oh, I love Jane Fonda.

706
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:04,399
Speaker 1: Then Ted Ashley, who was at the time the head

707
00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:09,360
Speaker 1: of Warners, floated Audrey Hepburn and Anne Bancroft as well.

708
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:11,880
Speaker 1: Hepburn said she would do it, but she would only

709
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:14,080
Speaker 1: film in Rome, where she was living at the time,

710
00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:16,840
Speaker 1: Freakin wrote, I thought it was a request on her part,

711
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:19,520
Speaker 1: not a condition. No way did I want to film

712
00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:22,600
Speaker 1: in Rome. It was impractical from every standpoint. All other

713
00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:24,720
Speaker 1: actors would have to be imported from the United States,

714
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:26,680
Speaker 1: and I didn't want a language barrier with the crew.

715
00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:30,879
Speaker 1: We asked miss Hepburn to reconsider, but she declined. Anne

716
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:34,200
Speaker 1: Bancroft accepted the role, but she was pregnant and asked

717
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:36,440
Speaker 1: production to hold on for a year, so she was

718
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:39,200
Speaker 1: also out. And this is the craziest thing. Freakin also

719
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:46,840
Speaker 1: wanted Carol Burnett Chris McNeil. He supposedly saw through her

720
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:50,839
Speaker 1: comedic personality to the depth of acting within. I think

721
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:54,440
Speaker 1: that's something about what he said. I'm not just making

722
00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:57,040
Speaker 1: fun of Carol Burnet, who was obviously incredible, but he

723
00:41:57,120 --> 00:41:58,880
Speaker 1: was like, no, I think she could carry a dramatic

724
00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:02,440
Speaker 1: role like this, the entire role, with like pantomime painted

725
00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:07,839
Speaker 1: cheeks and like Danielle at one point.

726
00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:11,239
Speaker 2: That's really bizarre. I mean, all well, I just want

727
00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:16,279
Speaker 2: to say something. I don't understand why the character of

728
00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:19,000
Speaker 2: Chris McNeil had to be an actress in this movie.

729
00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:21,000
Speaker 1: I don't know if that was a vestige of the novel,

730
00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:23,799
Speaker 1: which I've admittedly never read. I don't think it adds

731
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:26,919
Speaker 1: anything to the plot. I don't understand why she just wasn't.

732
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:30,160
Speaker 1: I don't know a single mother. I don't really understand

733
00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:36,840
Speaker 1: what it adds to the story. Yeah, needed, Why actually

734
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:40,360
Speaker 1: have you read the novel? I have not. I have not. No,

735
00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:42,799
Speaker 1: maybe I will. Yeah, now I kind of want to.

736
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:45,000
Speaker 1: I wonder if that's like explored more well.

737
00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:47,320
Speaker 2: The person who did get the role of Chris McNeil,

738
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:51,160
Speaker 2: Ellen Burston, campaigned for the part with a similar intensity

739
00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:55,080
Speaker 2: to Jason Miller. She apparently called William Freakin and asked

740
00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:56,480
Speaker 2: do you believe in Destiny?

741
00:42:57,239 --> 00:42:59,440
Speaker 1: Which is a hell of an opening line. It's not

742
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:01,839
Speaker 1: like when Stan Kubrick used to call Stephen King late

743
00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:04,000
Speaker 1: at night and ask him like, do you believe in God?

744
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:10,000
Speaker 2: Freakin, from his book, was quoted as saying she was

745
00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:12,200
Speaker 2: considered a very good actress. She was in the Last

746
00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:15,760
Speaker 2: Picture Show, but I frankly didn't remember which role she played,

747
00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:19,520
Speaker 2: and I tended to confuse her with Chlorus Leachman. In

748
00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:22,800
Speaker 2: other words, Freedkin was not impressed with his future leading lady.

749
00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:28,440
Speaker 2: What a horrible thing to say. After the fact, Ellen

750
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:31,240
Speaker 2: Burston told him that she'd had a strong Catholic upbringing

751
00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:33,839
Speaker 2: as a girl, but she also left the church after

752
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:38,920
Speaker 2: a bad experience. Any any further information on the bad experience?

753
00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:42,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it was a yeah, And you think

754
00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:47,600
Speaker 1: it was a you think it was a priest. Yeah.

755
00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:50,520
Speaker 2: But Freakin liked her and started floating her to warners,

756
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:54,560
Speaker 2: but the studios had Ted Ashley was adamantly opposed, at

757
00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:58,120
Speaker 2: one point acting out the phrase over my dead body

758
00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:00,000
Speaker 2: to Freakin in his office.

759
00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:03,560
Speaker 1: This is my favorite anecdote from this episode. You take it.

760
00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:10,680
Speaker 1: So Warner's studio head, Ted Ashley h literally he was

761
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:14,359
Speaker 1: yelling at Freaking about casting Allen Bursta, and he said,

762
00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:17,080
Speaker 1: over my dead body. That's hows what happened. And he

763
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:20,320
Speaker 1: laid down in his office in front of the door

764
00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:23,760
Speaker 1: and was like, go ahead, try to leave, walk over

765
00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:29,439
Speaker 1: my dead body. And Billy freaking dutifully tries to and

766
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:33,040
Speaker 1: Ted actually reaches up and grabs his leg and he says,

767
00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:35,520
Speaker 1: this is one will happen if you cast Burston. I'll

768
00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:39,239
Speaker 1: come back from the dead and stop you. Anyway, she

769
00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:40,040
Speaker 1: got the park.

770
00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:44,160
Speaker 2: That's up there with what was that the Scott rudin

771
00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:46,560
Speaker 2: the guy that was working with Scott Ruden, who eventually

772
00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:48,640
Speaker 2: just started building pillow for us to hide end when

773
00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:53,680
Speaker 2: Scott's yah, yah, yeah, oh god, Hollywood is run by.

774
00:44:53,719 --> 00:45:02,279
Speaker 1: Children, such powerful, rich children, boiled children. Yes, we're gonna

775
00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:04,440
Speaker 1: take a quick break, but we'll be right back with

776
00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:06,680
Speaker 1: more too much information in just a moment.

777
00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:11,439
Speaker 4: Wow.

778
00:45:16,840 --> 00:45:19,080
Speaker 1: The other roles of the film came fairly easy.

779
00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:22,200
Speaker 2: William Peter Bladi showed Freakin a picture of the priest

780
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:25,800
Speaker 2: who inspired the character of Father Maren, and Freaquin immediately

781
00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:28,600
Speaker 2: was inspired to write to Max von Seido, who accepted

782
00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:32,960
Speaker 2: the role, although apparently studio wanted Marlon Brando, which just

783
00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:35,239
Speaker 2: would have been all kinds. I think the reason I

784
00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:37,560
Speaker 2: heard that Freakin said no was it would turn this

785
00:45:37,640 --> 00:45:40,319
Speaker 2: movie into a Brando movie, and that's not what this is.

786
00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:49,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, lapel of Christ compels you. Yeah, he's not in

787
00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:51,640
Speaker 1: a fat Brando phase at that point, but it would

788
00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:54,120
Speaker 1: have been funny if he had been. This compels you.

789
00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:59,200
Speaker 1: The point of the devil's doing this I not believe

790
00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:01,880
Speaker 1: completely assing. It's like eating out of a bag of

791
00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:10,200
Speaker 1: flour eaters, Caros. When was the last time you think

792
00:46:10,239 --> 00:46:15,680
Speaker 1: Brando gave a damn oh Superman. No, yes, before Superman,

793
00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:19,399
Speaker 1: I don't know because it was gone by apocalypse. Now

794
00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:23,479
Speaker 1: they said he was. He was was out horrified when

795
00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:27,880
Speaker 1: he showed up, like so fat, because Kurt's is supposed

796
00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:30,799
Speaker 1: to be this huge badass or like made it through

797
00:46:30,840 --> 00:46:33,719
Speaker 1: the marine training at like the age of forty, and

798
00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:37,200
Speaker 1: he's like, and now I have this bag of skin

799
00:46:39,120 --> 00:46:47,880
Speaker 1: who showed up getting the dark. Yeah, exactly, like freaking

800
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:48,440
Speaker 1: and bladdie.

801
00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:51,160
Speaker 2: We're seeing a play scouting an actor for a role,

802
00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:53,239
Speaker 2: and instead they saw actor Lee J.

803
00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:55,240
Speaker 1: Cobb, who was best.

804
00:46:55,040 --> 00:46:57,799
Speaker 2: Known for originating the role of Willie Lowman in Arthur

805
00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:00,160
Speaker 2: Miller's Death of a Salesman, as well as role and

806
00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:03,239
Speaker 2: Twelve Angry Men and on the Waterfront. And he wasn't

807
00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:06,080
Speaker 2: on stage. She was just in the audience. It was

808
00:47:06,080 --> 00:47:08,719
Speaker 2: a nice sacredicity there.

809
00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:13,040
Speaker 1: What if that actor ever found out that he was uh,

810
00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:16,160
Speaker 1: he was being scouted for The Exorcist. Instead they saw

811
00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:20,040
Speaker 1: the audience was more impressive. Yeah, a more famous actor

812
00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:23,480
Speaker 1: in the audience were like, oh, fuck this guy. Anything

813
00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:25,680
Speaker 1: about who it was? I didn't know.

814
00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:31,080
Speaker 2: Maxi Moosito was a champ and his performance is obviously amazing,

815
00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:34,000
Speaker 2: but he was so unnerved by hearing some of the

816
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:36,760
Speaker 2: horrifying things coming out of twelve year old Linda Blair's

817
00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:39,960
Speaker 2: mouth that he forgot his own lines at one point,

818
00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:42,480
Speaker 2: which is understanable.

819
00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:44,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, and she did every That's the craziest thing about

820
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:46,880
Speaker 1: this to me is that she read all that stuff

821
00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:50,000
Speaker 1: obviously like and gave her own performance that was dubbed over.

822
00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:53,240
Speaker 1: So it was actually in all of the thing where

823
00:47:53,239 --> 00:47:55,360
Speaker 1: you're like, oh yeah, Mercedes Mcambridge blah blah blah, but

824
00:47:55,440 --> 00:47:58,399
Speaker 1: then you're like, oh yeah, twelve thirteen year old Lenna

825
00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:04,760
Speaker 1: Blair actually set all that awful stuff and it's pretty

826
00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:04,920
Speaker 1: you know.

827
00:48:05,080 --> 00:48:07,760
Speaker 2: I thought like, oh yeah, nineteen seventy three, I'm sure

828
00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:11,239
Speaker 2: a lot of that's pretty tame by you know, today's standards.

829
00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:13,160
Speaker 1: Oh no, sure, isn't my.

830
00:48:15,600 --> 00:48:17,520
Speaker 3: What an excellent day for an exorcism.

831
00:48:18,200 --> 00:48:23,399
Speaker 1: Well then let's introduce ourselves.

832
00:48:21,440 --> 00:48:25,799
Speaker 3: And I'm the devil. Now kindly do these struts. If

833
00:48:25,840 --> 00:48:28,719
Speaker 3: you're the devil one, I make the straps disappear. It's

834
00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:33,000
Speaker 3: much too vulgar, or display a cow or charis the

835
00:48:33,160 --> 00:48:35,960
Speaker 3: mother's in here with us? Kars, would you like to

836
00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:39,719
Speaker 3: leave a message? I'll see that she gets it. How

837
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:42,640
Speaker 3: long are you planning to stay in Reagan until she

838
00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:44,960
Speaker 3: rots a nice stinking in the Europe?

839
00:48:45,640 --> 00:48:48,359
Speaker 1: Casting Reagan speaking of her was much harder and took

840
00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:52,160
Speaker 1: four months. Over a thousand girls aged eleven to thirteen

841
00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:56,879
Speaker 1: sent in tapes, and production was despairing that they'd ever

842
00:48:56,920 --> 00:48:59,400
Speaker 1: find a girl of Reagan's age who could anchor the film,

843
00:48:59,800 --> 00:49:01,920
Speaker 1: and they were about to start looking at teen actresses.

844
00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:03,160
Speaker 1: You simply looked younger.

845
00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:06,520
Speaker 2: I'd read that they were actually considering people with Dwarfism

846
00:49:06,640 --> 00:49:08,000
Speaker 2: who are adults as well.

847
00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:10,480
Speaker 1: My favorite bit of this that I had no idea

848
00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:16,160
Speaker 1: about was that Jamie Lee Curtis was going to audition

849
00:49:16,280 --> 00:49:21,520
Speaker 1: for this, and she said this in twenty eighteen, and

850
00:49:21,600 --> 00:49:25,399
Speaker 1: her mother, Janet Lee of Psycho Fame said no.

851
00:49:27,600 --> 00:49:31,239
Speaker 2: Other folks who are up consideration were Eve Plum, who

852
00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:35,080
Speaker 2: played Jan Brady on The Brady Bunch. She apparently auditioned

853
00:49:35,080 --> 00:49:38,840
Speaker 2: for the role of Reagan McNeil. Dana Plato of Silver

854
00:49:38,920 --> 00:49:42,080
Speaker 2: Spoons Fame claims that she auditioned, although Bladdie said he

855
00:49:42,120 --> 00:49:44,200
Speaker 2: had no memory of this and thinks she made it up.

856
00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:48,759
Speaker 2: My favorite almost cast was Debbie Reynolds and her real

857
00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:52,239
Speaker 2: life daughter Carrie Fisher, who would have been perfect. She

858
00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:56,320
Speaker 2: looks just like when you look at Carrie Fisher in Shampoo,

859
00:49:56,360 --> 00:49:58,200
Speaker 2: and she was like fifteen because it was filmed a

860
00:49:58,200 --> 00:49:58,919
Speaker 2: couple years later.

861
00:49:58,960 --> 00:50:01,600
Speaker 1: She looks just like Linda Blair. Oh yeah she does. Yeah,

862
00:50:01,640 --> 00:50:03,760
Speaker 1: she has that same kind of little chubby cheek's cute,

863
00:50:03,800 --> 00:50:09,280
Speaker 1: cute little face and probably was also already doing cocaine. Also,

864
00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:12,680
Speaker 1: Denise Nickerson, who played Violet Beauregard and Willie Wonka and

865
00:50:12,719 --> 00:50:16,759
Speaker 1: the Chocolate Factory, was encouraged to audition, but was discouraged

866
00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:19,280
Speaker 1: from doing so by her family, who found the story

867
00:50:20,239 --> 00:50:24,320
Speaker 1: too dark, which is impressive considering the movie she started

868
00:50:25,120 --> 00:50:28,640
Speaker 1: was about a chocolate tycoon killing children, yeah, luring children

869
00:50:28,680 --> 00:50:34,320
Speaker 1: into saw traps. But one day at Freakin's office, which

870
00:50:34,360 --> 00:50:38,839
Speaker 1: was hilariously at six sixty six Fifth Avenue, a woman

871
00:50:38,920 --> 00:50:42,000
Speaker 1: named Eleanor Blair simply showed up asking if he would

872
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:46,160
Speaker 1: consider her daughter Linda for the role. Blair's mom, Eleanor

873
00:50:46,200 --> 00:50:48,640
Speaker 1: has a cameo in the film as a nurse. Linda Blair,

874
00:50:48,640 --> 00:50:51,799
Speaker 1: in Freakin's words, was smart but not precocious, cute but

875
00:50:51,840 --> 00:50:55,279
Speaker 1: not beautiful, a normal, happy twelve year old girl. She

876
00:50:55,320 --> 00:50:57,720
Speaker 1: had done some modeling, but hadn't been in a film prior,

877
00:50:57,800 --> 00:51:01,120
Speaker 1: and her main interest at the time was horses, which

878
00:51:01,160 --> 00:51:05,400
Speaker 1: is so adorable. Freaking writes that when he asked her

879
00:51:05,400 --> 00:51:09,440
Speaker 1: what she knew about her character in the book, she responded, well,

880
00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:12,160
Speaker 1: she pushes a man out of her bedroom window, and

881
00:51:12,200 --> 00:51:15,040
Speaker 1: she hits her mother across the face, and she masturbates

882
00:51:15,080 --> 00:51:19,160
Speaker 1: with a crucifix and then Freaking I don't know why

883
00:51:19,200 --> 00:51:21,279
Speaker 1: his mind went here, but he said, well, he said,

884
00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:24,080
Speaker 1: do you know what masturbates is? And she says yes,

885
00:51:24,120 --> 00:51:27,239
Speaker 1: And then he says, have you done it? And she goes, sure,

886
00:51:27,360 --> 00:51:29,640
Speaker 1: haven't you? And he was like, that was when the

887
00:51:29,719 --> 00:51:31,360
Speaker 1: light went off in my head that I knew she

888
00:51:31,360 --> 00:51:35,440
Speaker 1: would be able to handle all this stuff. And then

889
00:51:36,200 --> 00:51:37,920
Speaker 1: the fact that she hit it off with Burston was

890
00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:42,840
Speaker 1: also a plus. But that's what a demon. That's a

891
00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:46,759
Speaker 1: weird thing, I think to ask a twelve year old girl,

892
00:51:47,960 --> 00:51:50,000
Speaker 1: I have bad news.

893
00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:53,359
Speaker 2: In August of twenty twenty one, sixty six six fifth

894
00:51:53,360 --> 00:51:56,120
Speaker 2: Avenue was renamed six sixty fifth Avenue.

895
00:51:56,440 --> 00:51:59,840
Speaker 1: First because I remember seeing that sign coming out of

896
00:51:59,840 --> 00:52:03,120
Speaker 1: this at Yeah, I forget what subway stop it was.

897
00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:08,920
Speaker 1: That's rude of them that it's a landmark. I like

898
00:52:08,960 --> 00:52:11,560
Speaker 1: the fact that Linda Blair's own agency didn't think to

899
00:52:11,680 --> 00:52:15,600
Speaker 1: recommend her for the apart in The Exorcist, her agents

900
00:52:15,600 --> 00:52:17,160
Speaker 1: sent along thirty.

901
00:52:16,800 --> 00:52:21,840
Speaker 2: Young actresses, but not Linda. If her mom hadn't stepped in,

902
00:52:21,880 --> 00:52:23,880
Speaker 2: she wouldn't have snacked the part. So hopefully she got

903
00:52:23,880 --> 00:52:25,120
Speaker 2: a new representation after that.

904
00:52:25,239 --> 00:52:29,880
Speaker 1: All right, wow. Two other women helped bring Reagan to life.

905
00:52:30,120 --> 00:52:33,160
Speaker 1: Warner's forced freed getting to use a woman named Eileen Deat's,

906
00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:38,320
Speaker 1: who was fifteen years Blair's senior, as Blair's stunt double.

907
00:52:38,480 --> 00:52:41,000
Speaker 1: She stands in for the crucifix scene, the fistfight with

908
00:52:41,040 --> 00:52:43,720
Speaker 1: Father Karras, and others that were deemed just too extreme

909
00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:47,200
Speaker 1: for Blair, and she also appears as the face of Pazuzu.

910
00:52:48,200 --> 00:52:52,400
Speaker 1: No too much for you. I hate that those little

911
00:52:52,440 --> 00:52:56,120
Speaker 1: one shot yeah interstitial bits, but the oh, it's it's

912
00:52:56,120 --> 00:52:58,680
Speaker 1: like a mime from hell. I hate that soul that

913
00:52:58,800 --> 00:53:00,600
Speaker 1: is what they make up was originally going to be.

914
00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:04,879
Speaker 1: That was the first design that they rejected for Reagan. Yeah,

915
00:53:05,000 --> 00:53:09,840
Speaker 1: as possessed and Deets was angry that her contribution to

916
00:53:09,880 --> 00:53:12,600
Speaker 1: the film had been minimized, and she would later claim

917
00:53:12,640 --> 00:53:15,200
Speaker 1: in the Press that she'd performed all the possession scenes,

918
00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:19,400
Speaker 1: and then Warners counted her by tallying up her screen

919
00:53:19,480 --> 00:53:24,840
Speaker 1: time at just over twenty eight seconds, which feels unnecessarily cruel.

920
00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:28,960
Speaker 1: We'll talk about Eileen Deetz later, but then now I

921
00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:33,280
Speaker 1: want to talk about Mercedes McCambridge. She provided the speaking

922
00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:36,600
Speaker 1: voice of the Possessed Reagan, one of the It's on

923
00:53:36,680 --> 00:53:39,880
Speaker 1: the Mount Rushmore voice performances. Man, I mean, she is

924
00:53:40,080 --> 00:53:46,239
Speaker 1: so scary and what is that voice? It literally like

925
00:53:46,440 --> 00:53:48,479
Speaker 1: if you were like, what what sounds like it comes

926
00:53:48,480 --> 00:53:50,960
Speaker 1: from the depths of hell, I would say that voice

927
00:53:51,280 --> 00:53:54,439
Speaker 1: a gender. I have no idea what age it is.

928
00:53:54,560 --> 00:53:57,399
Speaker 1: It's yeah, yeah, I can't even do like, I can't

929
00:53:57,400 --> 00:54:01,600
Speaker 1: get as low as she does. Sound like Tom Waite. Dude,

930
00:54:01,600 --> 00:54:05,560
Speaker 1: It's so fucking crazy. She and was even more nuts.

931
00:54:05,680 --> 00:54:07,919
Speaker 1: She had already had a full career by the time

932
00:54:07,960 --> 00:54:10,760
Speaker 1: she got to this. She worked extensively with Orson Wells

933
00:54:10,840 --> 00:54:13,520
Speaker 1: during his radio era. He once called her the world's

934
00:54:13,520 --> 00:54:17,200
Speaker 1: greatest living radio actress, which is a pretty great compliment

935
00:54:17,480 --> 00:54:19,000
Speaker 1: from Orson Wells. Yeah.

936
00:54:19,320 --> 00:54:21,520
Speaker 2: Sadly she was not in his infamous War of the

937
00:54:21,520 --> 00:54:23,960
Speaker 2: World's radio play, but she was in some great ones, and.

938
00:54:23,880 --> 00:54:26,760
Speaker 1: By nineteen forty nine she won an Oscar for All

939
00:54:26,960 --> 00:54:31,680
Speaker 1: King's Men. And then she also acted opposite Joan Crawford

940
00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:36,440
Speaker 1: in Johnny Guitar against Elizabeth Taylor in Giant, and she

941
00:54:36,480 --> 00:54:40,440
Speaker 1: has a memorable cameo menacing Janet Lee in orson Well's

942
00:54:40,480 --> 00:54:43,239
Speaker 1: Touch of Evil, also infamously known as the film that

943
00:54:43,719 --> 00:54:46,600
Speaker 1: Duke Ellington did an amazing score for and the film

944
00:54:46,600 --> 00:54:51,840
Speaker 1: that has Charlton Heston in brown face as a Mexican guy. Anyway,

945
00:54:52,360 --> 00:54:54,680
Speaker 1: Freakan's first choice for the role was another voice actor

946
00:54:54,719 --> 00:54:58,320
Speaker 1: named Ken Nordeen, who I know through my beloved Tom Waits.

947
00:54:58,680 --> 00:55:01,080
Speaker 1: Tom Waits described him as an early influence on his

948
00:55:01,239 --> 00:55:05,319
Speaker 1: kind of beat jazz. What I think is the era

949
00:55:05,400 --> 00:55:08,799
Speaker 1: of Tom Waits's like sort of Billy Joel with a

950
00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:12,240
Speaker 1: worst drinking problem era where he was doing like lounge

951
00:55:12,320 --> 00:55:16,319
Speaker 1: jazz piano and then like beat poetry inspired stuff over

952
00:55:16,360 --> 00:55:21,800
Speaker 1: the top. Nordin would just improvise or recite poetry over

953
00:55:22,000 --> 00:55:26,440
Speaker 1: like a jazz combo, and he called it word jazz,

954
00:55:27,960 --> 00:55:31,680
Speaker 1: which is what I call my writing. But he couldn't

955
00:55:31,760 --> 00:55:36,000
Speaker 1: summon a sufficiently demonic voice, and so Freakin turned to McCambridge,

956
00:55:36,400 --> 00:55:39,600
Speaker 1: and she was performing at a Dallas stage production of

957
00:55:39,640 --> 00:55:43,239
Speaker 1: Who's Afraid of Virginia Wolf. She watched a rough cut

958
00:55:43,239 --> 00:55:45,719
Speaker 1: of the film with Blair reading the lines, and then

959
00:55:45,760 --> 00:55:48,600
Speaker 1: she told Freakin that she was a recovering alcoholic and

960
00:55:48,800 --> 00:55:51,920
Speaker 1: deeply Catholic, and she cited the religion as helping her

961
00:55:51,960 --> 00:55:54,720
Speaker 1: get through the addiction. She was a really early public

962
00:55:54,760 --> 00:55:59,440
Speaker 1: advocate for alcoholism treatment. She actually had to leave AA

963
00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:03,400
Speaker 1: because she was no longer anonymous because she went before

964
00:56:03,440 --> 00:56:07,040
Speaker 1: a Senate subcommittee testifying about alcoholism and addiction in nineteen

965
00:56:07,040 --> 00:56:10,160
Speaker 1: sixty nine. McCambridge added that she went in to have

966
00:56:10,400 --> 00:56:13,760
Speaker 1: two priests on set when she or on the sound

967
00:56:13,760 --> 00:56:16,680
Speaker 1: stage where she was doing the recording, to help her

968
00:56:16,680 --> 00:56:20,120
Speaker 1: get through some of this blasphemous dialogue. And she was

969
00:56:20,160 --> 00:56:23,520
Speaker 1: a smoker for thirty years, but she told Freakin that

970
00:56:23,560 --> 00:56:25,680
Speaker 1: in order to pull off what she was envisioning is

971
00:56:25,680 --> 00:56:28,160
Speaker 1: the voice for this, she would have to start drinking again,

972
00:56:28,320 --> 00:56:30,880
Speaker 1: and that's what she did. One of the most famous

973
00:56:32,680 --> 00:56:36,680
Speaker 1: things about this movie that's recited is that she chain smoked,

974
00:56:37,480 --> 00:56:41,879
Speaker 1: slugged down Jack Daniels and to get the suitably disgusting

975
00:56:41,960 --> 00:56:45,280
Speaker 1: sound for the famous projectile vomiting scene. She swallowed eighteen

976
00:56:45,480 --> 00:56:50,960
Speaker 1: raw eggs and a pulpy apple. Ah. For some reason,

977
00:56:50,960 --> 00:56:53,520
Speaker 1: the pulpy apples the thing that kicks it. Yeah right.

978
00:56:54,400 --> 00:56:56,239
Speaker 1: Talking to The New York Times about the experience, she

979
00:56:56,320 --> 00:56:58,959
Speaker 1: called the role the most difficult performance of my life

980
00:56:59,239 --> 00:57:04,319
Speaker 1: and a terrible experience. She delved into her inspiration for

981
00:57:04,600 --> 00:57:07,000
Speaker 1: the voice, and this is where it gets truly horrifying.

982
00:57:07,520 --> 00:57:11,840
Speaker 1: The wheezing, for instance, My chronic bronchitis helped with that.

983
00:57:12,840 --> 00:57:16,520
Speaker 1: I did it on one microphone, then on another, elevating

984
00:57:16,560 --> 00:57:19,120
Speaker 1: it a bit, then a third and fourth, two tones

985
00:57:19,200 --> 00:57:22,160
Speaker 1: higher each time, and they combined it as a chorus.

986
00:57:23,800 --> 00:57:27,320
Speaker 1: The wailing just before the demon is driven out. That's

987
00:57:27,360 --> 00:57:31,120
Speaker 1: a sound I once heard at a wake in Ireland.

988
00:57:32,160 --> 00:57:35,040
Speaker 1: I used moaning cries I'd use when playing Lady Macbeth

989
00:57:35,120 --> 00:57:38,760
Speaker 1: for Orson. For the groaning sounds, I pulled a scarf

990
00:57:38,840 --> 00:57:43,280
Speaker 1: around my neck, tight and almost strangled. And this is

991
00:57:43,320 --> 00:57:47,960
Speaker 1: the thing that really haunts me. She pulled inspiration from

992
00:57:48,040 --> 00:57:52,880
Speaker 1: Certain's screams that the demon made from her experiences drying

993
00:57:52,920 --> 00:57:56,920
Speaker 1: out in a detox facility, remembering the cries of patients

994
00:57:56,960 --> 00:58:02,560
Speaker 1: going through alcohol withdrawal and a truly haunting quote, she said,

995
00:58:02,880 --> 00:58:07,480
Speaker 1: I cried out from my remembered hell. That sounds like

996
00:58:07,520 --> 00:58:11,880
Speaker 1: something from like like a Paradise Lost or Dante or

997
00:58:11,880 --> 00:58:12,680
Speaker 1: something like.

998
00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:15,960
Speaker 2: I mean, the thing that's even more upsetting for me

999
00:58:16,040 --> 00:58:18,040
Speaker 2: is that she must have known that she was about

1000
00:58:18,120 --> 00:58:21,479
Speaker 2: to go through that again now that she started drinking

1001
00:58:21,560 --> 00:58:25,040
Speaker 2: again for this performance. That's true of all the disturbing

1002
00:58:25,080 --> 00:58:28,360
Speaker 2: elements of this film and production, this woman breaking her

1003
00:58:28,400 --> 00:58:31,680
Speaker 2: heart earned sobriety is maybe the most upsetting to me.

1004
00:58:32,640 --> 00:58:34,880
Speaker 2: My girlfriend's in the midst of getting her master's to

1005
00:58:34,880 --> 00:58:37,400
Speaker 2: be a therapist, and she's in the middle of taking

1006
00:58:37,440 --> 00:58:39,680
Speaker 2: in classes on an addiction, and she's been talking to

1007
00:58:39,680 --> 00:58:44,560
Speaker 2: me at length about that. And yeah, I mean, I

1008
00:58:44,600 --> 00:58:47,440
Speaker 2: don't think I realized the sanctity with which.

1009
00:58:47,240 --> 00:58:50,280
Speaker 1: Those in recovery hold their sobriety. So that is a

1010
00:58:50,520 --> 00:58:55,920
Speaker 1: truly insane sacrifice. And that's got to be one of

1011
00:58:55,920 --> 00:58:59,640
Speaker 1: the darkest elements of this story. I'd say, yeah, yea

1012
00:59:00,000 --> 00:59:02,280
Speaker 1: already talking about it. Just goes into this like they

1013
00:59:02,320 --> 00:59:04,720
Speaker 1: always do, the oh she chained smoke drink Jack Daniels

1014
00:59:04,760 --> 00:59:08,360
Speaker 1: and you know, slug down eggs. That's like the logline.

1015
00:59:08,360 --> 00:59:11,520
Speaker 1: You see all the BuzzFeed listicles and you know whatever.

1016
00:59:11,600 --> 00:59:17,120
Speaker 1: But she really went deep and it took a lot

1017
00:59:17,160 --> 00:59:20,080
Speaker 1: out of her. How long was she celebrated? I don't,

1018
00:59:20,160 --> 00:59:23,360
Speaker 1: I don't, but yeah, I mean, it's also crazy that

1019
00:59:23,480 --> 00:59:25,560
Speaker 1: she was like she wanted to be such an advocate

1020
00:59:25,600 --> 00:59:28,400
Speaker 1: for getting alcoholism in the public eye in nineteen sixty nine,

1021
00:59:28,440 --> 00:59:29,760
Speaker 1: that she was like, well, I guess I'm not an

1022
00:59:29,800 --> 00:59:34,600
Speaker 1: AA anymore. That's nuts, man. Wow.

1023
00:59:36,280 --> 00:59:39,560
Speaker 2: William Freakin, in a twenty twelve screening Q and A,

1024
00:59:39,560 --> 00:59:43,400
Speaker 2: admitted that he was equally horrified by the lengths that

1025
00:59:43,440 --> 00:59:46,480
Speaker 2: she went for this performance. One detail that often gets

1026
00:59:46,480 --> 00:59:50,240
Speaker 2: cited is at MERCEDESM. Cambridge recorded her lines strapped to

1027
00:59:50,280 --> 00:59:53,440
Speaker 2: a chair to give the impression that the demon was

1028
00:59:53,440 --> 00:59:57,880
Speaker 2: struggling against bonds. Freaking said, I tied her hands behind

1029
00:59:57,920 --> 01:00:00,440
Speaker 2: her back and she would do the dubbing a line

1030
01:00:00,440 --> 01:00:02,800
Speaker 2: at a time, and often she would ask for more

1031
01:00:02,800 --> 01:00:05,880
Speaker 2: booze and more cigarettes. She'd come off a take and

1032
01:00:05,920 --> 01:00:07,880
Speaker 2: then go to a couch in the back where these

1033
01:00:07,880 --> 01:00:09,000
Speaker 2: two priests were.

1034
01:00:09,160 --> 01:00:12,040
Speaker 1: And she would collapse in their arms and burst into tears.

1035
01:00:13,160 --> 01:00:17,640
Speaker 1: Jesus right, it just gets worse and worse.

1036
01:00:17,960 --> 01:00:23,720
Speaker 3: It wasn't hard for me to imagine the rage. See

1037
01:00:23,040 --> 01:00:25,160
Speaker 3: if it's this close.

1038
01:00:24,920 --> 01:00:28,880
Speaker 1: In me right here, I'm only a go be. It's

1039
01:00:28,920 --> 01:00:32,960
Speaker 1: that close, and everybody, everybody came from the second forward

1040
01:00:33,160 --> 01:00:36,600
Speaker 1: a hi.

1041
01:00:38,920 --> 01:00:39,640
Speaker 3: That isn't hard.

1042
01:00:41,240 --> 01:00:44,040
Speaker 1: Now some are, predictably. There are two versions of what

1043
01:00:44,120 --> 01:00:48,240
Speaker 1: happened next. Freaking has claimed that McCambridge voluntarily gave up

1044
01:00:48,280 --> 01:00:51,000
Speaker 1: her credit on the film, telling him she didn't want

1045
01:00:51,000 --> 01:00:54,040
Speaker 1: people to think about who did the voice. McCambridge said

1046
01:00:54,040 --> 01:00:57,080
Speaker 1: that he in fact promised her a credit, and it

1047
01:00:57,120 --> 01:00:59,360
Speaker 1: was only when she showed up at the screening that

1048
01:00:59,400 --> 01:01:02,760
Speaker 1: she realized she'd been omitted from the film's credits. She

1049
01:01:02,840 --> 01:01:05,200
Speaker 1: told The New York Times, it's heartbreaking when someone you

1050
01:01:05,240 --> 01:01:09,640
Speaker 1: thought was a friend does that. Freaking told her that

1051
01:01:10,080 --> 01:01:12,840
Speaker 1: there wasn't time to get her added to the credits,

1052
01:01:14,320 --> 01:01:17,000
Speaker 1: and there's been a persistent conspiracy theory that it was

1053
01:01:17,040 --> 01:01:20,720
Speaker 1: at one point floated by Mercedes McCambridge herself, that the

1054
01:01:20,840 --> 01:01:23,760
Speaker 1: detail that she voiced the demon was kept out of

1055
01:01:23,800 --> 01:01:28,440
Speaker 1: the press until Linda Blair had secured an Oscar nomination.

1056
01:01:29,240 --> 01:01:32,280
Speaker 1: They let everyone think that Linda Blair did that voice

1057
01:01:32,640 --> 01:01:35,360
Speaker 1: to help her land an Oscar and then, like the

1058
01:01:35,560 --> 01:01:38,640
Speaker 1: day after it came out that she won the nomination,

1059
01:01:38,800 --> 01:01:42,440
Speaker 1: the studios leaked the story to Variety in the trades

1060
01:01:43,000 --> 01:01:47,080
Speaker 1: and said that it was a woman with a career

1061
01:01:47,080 --> 01:01:50,000
Speaker 1: in an Oscar. It wasn't this child in her debut

1062
01:01:50,040 --> 01:01:54,520
Speaker 1: film performance. So really a raw deal for Mercedes. Yeah,

1063
01:01:54,560 --> 01:01:57,240
Speaker 1: it's a pretty sleazy move because once a nomination's given,

1064
01:01:57,400 --> 01:02:00,880
Speaker 1: it can't be revoked. So I mean, that's a good play.

1065
01:02:02,080 --> 01:02:03,840
Speaker 2: But on the flip side, there are some people who

1066
01:02:03,880 --> 01:02:07,480
Speaker 2: think that the news that this you know, professional voice

1067
01:02:07,520 --> 01:02:11,280
Speaker 2: actress with an Oscar to her name actually provided that

1068
01:02:11,680 --> 01:02:15,640
Speaker 2: unforgettable voice might have actually torpedo Linda Blair's chance for

1069
01:02:15,760 --> 01:02:17,120
Speaker 2: an Oscar win, which.

1070
01:02:17,240 --> 01:02:22,040
Speaker 1: I mean, let's be real, kind of deserved it you think?

1071
01:02:22,360 --> 01:02:25,680
Speaker 1: Do you think she deserved it? I mean, I mean,

1072
01:02:25,680 --> 01:02:29,439
Speaker 1: I admittedly I have never seen paper Moon, but yeah,

1073
01:02:29,480 --> 01:02:32,760
Speaker 1: because the Oscar did go to Tatum O'Neill, who still

1074
01:02:32,960 --> 01:02:35,920
Speaker 1: holds the record as the youngest Oscar winner ever for

1075
01:02:36,080 --> 01:02:41,440
Speaker 1: paper Moon. But I say this would love to Linda Blair.

1076
01:02:42,040 --> 01:02:46,240
Speaker 1: I think her career after this testifies that she maybe

1077
01:02:46,560 --> 01:02:50,360
Speaker 1: wasn't the greatest actress of all time and that.

1078
01:02:50,280 --> 01:02:52,160
Speaker 2: She just was She not a great actress or was

1079
01:02:52,200 --> 01:02:58,640
Speaker 2: she just like typecast slash developed drug problems.

1080
01:02:58,720 --> 01:03:01,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, other problems, that's true. Yeah, and her life was

1081
01:03:01,720 --> 01:03:05,560
Speaker 1: admittedly made much more insane by this film. But you

1082
01:03:05,560 --> 01:03:08,080
Speaker 1: know she didn't. Yeah, I don't know. She's great. I

1083
01:03:08,080 --> 01:03:10,440
Speaker 1: mean she is. She is perfect for this because it's,

1084
01:03:10,440 --> 01:03:13,280
Speaker 1: like freaking said, She's like smart, but not obnoxiously so.

1085
01:03:13,320 --> 01:03:17,040
Speaker 1: She doesn't give off like Jonathan Lipniki vibes. She doesn't

1086
01:03:17,080 --> 01:03:22,680
Speaker 1: have like theater kid vibes, like like Jacob Tremblay. So

1087
01:03:23,440 --> 01:03:26,360
Speaker 1: uh yeah, but I yeah, I mean, I don't know, man,

1088
01:03:26,480 --> 01:03:30,040
Speaker 1: I listen to me on a twelve year old grew

1089
01:03:31,560 --> 01:03:34,160
Speaker 1: performance in one of the most famous films of all time.

1090
01:03:34,280 --> 01:03:42,520
Speaker 1: Merry Christmas everyone. You can't say I'm not consistent. I

1091
01:03:42,560 --> 01:03:45,640
Speaker 1: mean I will say. I'm gonna know a ten year old,

1092
01:03:46,160 --> 01:03:49,160
Speaker 1: I mean the old thing with her dad in Paper Moon,

1093
01:03:49,280 --> 01:03:52,040
Speaker 1: right O'Neil. So I'm gonna say you know what, No,

1094
01:03:52,840 --> 01:03:56,920
Speaker 1: she would have gone to Linda Blair. Damn it. Anyway,

1095
01:03:57,000 --> 01:03:59,440
Speaker 1: the whole thing with Mercedes Mcambridge went to the screen

1096
01:03:59,440 --> 01:04:03,480
Speaker 1: actors guilt, and she got her name reinserted in the credits.

1097
01:04:04,520 --> 01:04:05,880
Speaker 1: On a related note.

1098
01:04:05,760 --> 01:04:07,600
Speaker 2: This is one of the first movies that didn't use

1099
01:04:07,680 --> 01:04:09,720
Speaker 2: credits after the opening title card.

1100
01:04:09,760 --> 01:04:12,720
Speaker 1: Did you know that? Yeah? I think Freakin had some

1101
01:04:12,800 --> 01:04:15,040
Speaker 1: kind of quote about that where he said, like, Citizen

1102
01:04:15,080 --> 01:04:17,600
Speaker 1: Kane is the only good film that had the credits

1103
01:04:17,640 --> 01:04:21,440
Speaker 1: before the action, or something like that. Something predictably obnoxious.

1104
01:04:21,600 --> 01:04:24,760
Speaker 1: Let me see if I can find it, but go ahead.

1105
01:04:24,800 --> 01:04:29,400
Speaker 2: And speaking of titles, William Peter Bladdie claimed that Warner

1106
01:04:29,440 --> 01:04:32,120
Speaker 2: Brothers wanted to change the title of The Exorcist because

1107
01:04:32,120 --> 01:04:35,600
Speaker 2: none of the studio executives knew what an exorcistem was.

1108
01:04:36,680 --> 01:04:41,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, which scans it does, doesn't it. Saga also had

1109
01:04:41,800 --> 01:04:43,880
Speaker 1: to intercede on the behalf of a third woman who

1110
01:04:43,880 --> 01:04:47,840
Speaker 1: played Reagan, stunt woman and Miles. Reagan was a trained

1111
01:04:47,920 --> 01:04:52,840
Speaker 1: gymnast and she performed the spider walk sequence that was

1112
01:04:52,880 --> 01:04:57,920
Speaker 1: cut from the original film. Apparently, Bladdie didn't feel that

1113
01:04:58,000 --> 01:05:01,120
Speaker 1: the contraption that they use to keep her safe was

1114
01:05:01,160 --> 01:05:04,280
Speaker 1: sufficiently removed from the original cut, so he cut it

1115
01:05:04,280 --> 01:05:05,880
Speaker 1: out and put it back in two thousand when they

1116
01:05:05,880 --> 01:05:09,720
Speaker 1: could use CGI to pain over it. It is horrifying.

1117
01:05:10,080 --> 01:05:13,439
Speaker 1: She walks backwards and on all fours down a set

1118
01:05:13,480 --> 01:05:15,960
Speaker 1: of stairs and then vomits up blood. It's one of

1119
01:05:16,040 --> 01:05:17,120
Speaker 1: the worst things I've ever.

1120
01:05:17,000 --> 01:05:22,520
Speaker 2: Seen somehow, but walking backwards down the stairs was more

1121
01:05:22,600 --> 01:05:23,760
Speaker 2: upsetting than the vomiting bloe.

1122
01:05:23,840 --> 01:05:26,480
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it's so canny. It gives you that like

1123
01:05:26,760 --> 01:05:29,720
Speaker 1: deep sense of like freidian unease where you're like, that's

1124
01:05:29,760 --> 01:05:35,000
Speaker 1: not how that body works should be. And so she

1125
01:05:35,840 --> 01:05:38,560
Speaker 1: spent two weeks rehearsing that scene and did it on

1126
01:05:38,600 --> 01:05:42,840
Speaker 1: the first take whoa, and then it was cut. So

1127
01:05:42,880 --> 01:05:45,400
Speaker 1: it was reinstated for the two thousand re release, and

1128
01:05:45,440 --> 01:05:48,640
Speaker 1: she wasn't again, was not credited, although she'd been telling people.

1129
01:05:48,760 --> 01:05:50,480
Speaker 1: She did an interview where she said, you'd been telling

1130
01:05:50,520 --> 01:05:52,960
Speaker 1: people that she had done that stunt for years, and

1131
01:05:53,720 --> 01:05:56,240
Speaker 1: the fact that she wasn't credited ended up damaging her

1132
01:05:56,240 --> 01:05:59,200
Speaker 1: credibility to it and costing her work, and so SAG

1133
01:05:59,280 --> 01:06:01,680
Speaker 1: once again intervened and got her name at it.

1134
01:06:01,840 --> 01:06:05,120
Speaker 2: That scene is so infamous to me because I for me,

1135
01:06:05,200 --> 01:06:07,760
Speaker 2: it ranks up there with the head rotation pea soup thing.

1136
01:06:08,480 --> 01:06:10,320
Speaker 1: I thought it was in the original. Maybe I just

1137
01:06:10,360 --> 01:06:12,400
Speaker 1: remember seeing it from like trailers and stuff for the

1138
01:06:12,440 --> 01:06:15,400
Speaker 1: reissue or the re release, but yeah, I mean that's like,

1139
01:06:15,760 --> 01:06:19,120
Speaker 1: that's for me. The thing that really stays with you. Yeah.

1140
01:06:19,200 --> 01:06:21,000
Speaker 1: Oh oh, I don't even like I don't like thinking

1141
01:06:21,040 --> 01:06:24,040
Speaker 1: about No, we're done, moving on. Production on The Exorcist

1142
01:06:24,080 --> 01:06:26,800
Speaker 1: was split between Washington, d C. For exteriors and sound

1143
01:06:26,840 --> 01:06:29,479
Speaker 1: stages in New York for the interiors at the McNeil home.

1144
01:06:29,840 --> 01:06:32,120
Speaker 1: The various hospital settings are in New York as well.

1145
01:06:32,680 --> 01:06:37,280
Speaker 1: Bellevue One was shot at Fordham in Bronx, but despite this,

1146
01:06:37,280 --> 01:06:39,240
Speaker 1: the film has become known as something of a love

1147
01:06:39,320 --> 01:06:42,760
Speaker 1: letter to Georgetown. Multiple scenes are shot at the university.

1148
01:06:43,120 --> 01:06:45,840
Speaker 1: Jason Miller spent a week on campus studying the Jesuits

1149
01:06:45,880 --> 01:06:49,480
Speaker 1: there to prepare for his role, and they actually got

1150
01:06:49,520 --> 01:06:53,320
Speaker 1: some on set visits from Father Thomas King, who is

1151
01:06:53,320 --> 01:06:56,200
Speaker 1: a professor of theology at Georgetown, to bless the set

1152
01:06:56,320 --> 01:07:01,640
Speaker 1: after some of the accidents. Around three hundred Georgetown students, staff,

1153
01:07:01,680 --> 01:07:04,720
Speaker 1: and faculty, including Jesuits, appear as extras in the movie,

1154
01:07:05,000 --> 01:07:07,320
Speaker 1: earning salaries from thirty five to one hundred and twenty

1155
01:07:07,360 --> 01:07:10,560
Speaker 1: eight dollars per day, while Warners paid the university's standard

1156
01:07:10,680 --> 01:07:14,120
Speaker 1: one thousand dollars a day to film there. Blady was

1157
01:07:14,240 --> 01:07:19,040
Speaker 1: so deeply Catholic and so concerned about his Alma Mater's

1158
01:07:19,600 --> 01:07:24,440
Speaker 1: spiritual soul that he started a petition to the Vatican

1159
01:07:25,080 --> 01:07:28,120
Speaker 1: that made it all the way to the Vatican's highest court,

1160
01:07:28,720 --> 01:07:34,400
Speaker 1: seeking the enforcement of Canon law to reform Georgetown University,

1161
01:07:34,440 --> 01:07:38,560
Speaker 1: which he felt had strayed away from its founding principles.

1162
01:07:38,960 --> 01:07:41,160
Speaker 1: It was still ongoing at the time of his death

1163
01:07:41,400 --> 01:07:42,560
Speaker 1: in twenty seventeen.

1164
01:07:43,560 --> 01:07:46,160
Speaker 2: I don't know what this says about fate or God

1165
01:07:46,240 --> 01:07:49,360
Speaker 2: or what, but it was during production that Bladdie met

1166
01:07:49,400 --> 01:07:52,160
Speaker 2: his future wife, Linda Trero, who was a tennis pro

1167
01:07:52,480 --> 01:07:55,600
Speaker 2: who'd been hired as an extra on the set at Georgetown.

1168
01:07:55,800 --> 01:08:00,600
Speaker 1: All give but we will get to a better marriage

1169
01:08:00,640 --> 01:08:04,520
Speaker 1: That came from his film. Later. Yes, exteriors for the

1170
01:08:04,600 --> 01:08:07,680
Speaker 1: McNeil's home, including the iconic shot of Maren under the

1171
01:08:07,720 --> 01:08:12,760
Speaker 1: street light probably top five iconic film stills of all time.

1172
01:08:13,040 --> 01:08:16,840
Speaker 1: Possibly those were shot at thirty six hundred Prospect Street.

1173
01:08:17,680 --> 01:08:21,040
Speaker 1: Freakin would say that he considered shooting inside of Senator

1174
01:08:21,160 --> 01:08:26,120
Speaker 1: and later Treasury Secretary Lloyd Benson's house in DC. Benson

1175
01:08:26,160 --> 01:08:30,280
Speaker 1: asked for one million dollars, which is I guess what

1176
01:08:30,439 --> 01:08:32,240
Speaker 1: something the Treasury secretary would do.

1177
01:08:33,080 --> 01:08:36,800
Speaker 2: That's like almost ten million now, so that is that

1178
01:08:36,840 --> 01:08:41,720
Speaker 2: basically a no, Yeah, you can't probably what that is.

1179
01:08:43,520 --> 01:08:45,240
Speaker 2: The woman who owned the house that they did eventually

1180
01:08:45,240 --> 01:08:49,160
Speaker 2: shoot at, Missus Florence Mahoney, didn't want her plants to

1181
01:08:49,240 --> 01:08:52,839
Speaker 2: die during production, so the crew had to construct special

1182
01:08:52,920 --> 01:08:56,479
Speaker 2: sets when filming the exteriors so they didn't block the light.

1183
01:08:57,680 --> 01:09:02,000
Speaker 1: I love a plant, mom. Yeah. The famous Exorcist steps,

1184
01:09:02,040 --> 01:09:04,839
Speaker 1: by the way, which they were originally built in eighteen

1185
01:09:05,000 --> 01:09:07,599
Speaker 1: ninety five, which have you ever been there, explains why

1186
01:09:07,600 --> 01:09:11,720
Speaker 1: they're so damn treacherous looking. They are steep. They were

1187
01:09:11,720 --> 01:09:16,160
Speaker 1: built during the construction of a storage structure for cable

1188
01:09:16,240 --> 01:09:20,960
Speaker 1: cars as sort of a priority path for workers. They

1189
01:09:20,960 --> 01:09:25,719
Speaker 1: had been referred to as the Hitchcock Steps. Freaking said,

1190
01:09:26,360 --> 01:09:30,080
Speaker 1: a reference to Alfred Hitchcock's nineteen thirty five the thirty

1191
01:09:30,160 --> 01:09:34,400
Speaker 1: nine Steps. Although I think there are seventy something Exorcist steps,

1192
01:09:35,320 --> 01:09:37,040
Speaker 1: they required a bit of a cheat to appear as

1193
01:09:37,040 --> 01:09:39,479
Speaker 1: they do in the film. They added an extension to

1194
01:09:39,520 --> 01:09:43,520
Speaker 1: thirty six hundred Prospect Street to allow keros to fall propertily.

1195
01:09:43,680 --> 01:09:46,360
Speaker 1: Otherwise the property was set too far back from the

1196
01:09:46,360 --> 01:09:48,680
Speaker 1: steps to make it believable. And then obviously they were

1197
01:09:48,720 --> 01:09:51,120
Speaker 1: also padded with like a half inch of rubber for

1198
01:09:51,160 --> 01:09:53,000
Speaker 1: the poor guy who had to fall all the way

1199
01:09:53,040 --> 01:09:58,560
Speaker 1: down the damn things. And in an incredible bit of capitalism,

1200
01:09:58,640 --> 01:10:02,920
Speaker 1: Georgetown reportedly yards students five dollars admission to watch the

1201
01:10:02,960 --> 01:10:06,320
Speaker 1: stunt of this guy falling down the stairs from nearby rooftops.

1202
01:10:06,800 --> 01:10:09,559
Speaker 1: And even more hilariously, to me, Bladie said that that

1203
01:10:09,640 --> 01:10:11,920
Speaker 1: fall he wrote the fall into his novel because he

1204
01:10:12,040 --> 01:10:14,200
Speaker 1: was there was an incident that he remembered from being

1205
01:10:14,200 --> 01:10:18,240
Speaker 1: a student where one of his physics classmates was hospitalized

1206
01:10:18,280 --> 01:10:22,520
Speaker 1: after falling down a flight of stairs fleeing after attempting

1207
01:10:22,640 --> 01:10:28,760
Speaker 1: to steal a final exam. The steps were recognized as

1208
01:10:28,760 --> 01:10:31,720
Speaker 1: a DC landmark in twenty fifteen, and a plaque at

1209
01:10:31,720 --> 01:10:33,280
Speaker 1: their base commemorates them.

1210
01:10:34,360 --> 01:10:37,000
Speaker 2: I have a question, go on, when you said that

1211
01:10:37,040 --> 01:10:39,439
Speaker 2: they were known as the Hitchcock steps, was that because

1212
01:10:39,479 --> 01:10:41,639
Speaker 2: they looked like the steps from the thirty nine Steps

1213
01:10:41,720 --> 01:10:43,599
Speaker 2: or did he Hitchcock film that there.

1214
01:10:44,240 --> 01:10:46,080
Speaker 1: I have no idea. I don't know. I know thirty

1215
01:10:46,120 --> 01:10:48,520
Speaker 1: nine steps is one of my blank spots for Hitchcock.

1216
01:10:50,160 --> 01:10:54,719
Speaker 1: Maybe it was just they were like a steps, right, yeah,

1217
01:10:56,160 --> 01:11:01,040
Speaker 1: staircase And of course production also shot in muscle Iraq

1218
01:11:01,120 --> 01:11:04,320
Speaker 1: for three months for the film's opening. In his interview

1219
01:11:04,360 --> 01:11:07,120
Speaker 1: to two thousand and six Oscar Screening, Freakin said that

1220
01:11:07,160 --> 01:11:10,479
Speaker 1: because America did not have diplomatic relations with Iraq at

1221
01:11:10,479 --> 01:11:13,080
Speaker 1: the time, he dealt directly with the ruling Bath Party,

1222
01:11:13,479 --> 01:11:17,040
Speaker 1: who agreed to production on the condition that he a

1223
01:11:17,360 --> 01:11:20,320
Speaker 1: higher a large number of Iraqi crew members b teach

1224
01:11:20,400 --> 01:11:23,640
Speaker 1: them how to create makeup, blood and see donate a

1225
01:11:23,680 --> 01:11:27,800
Speaker 1: print of the French connection. Freaking told the Hollywood Reporter,

1226
01:11:28,240 --> 01:11:30,760
Speaker 1: I remember the head of Warners, Ted Ashley, saying, if

1227
01:11:30,760 --> 01:11:32,720
Speaker 1: you go over there and you get killed, it's your

1228
01:11:32,760 --> 01:11:36,360
Speaker 1: own fault. They didn't, but it wasn't for lack of trying.

1229
01:11:37,920 --> 01:11:42,200
Speaker 1: Temperatures reached one hundred and thirty degrees fahrenheit, limiting their

1230
01:11:42,200 --> 01:11:44,919
Speaker 1: shooting window to down or dusk, and this was particularly

1231
01:11:44,920 --> 01:11:48,080
Speaker 1: hard on Max von Sadau, who was wearing Dick Smith's

1232
01:11:48,120 --> 01:11:51,559
Speaker 1: extensive and impressive old age makeup. He would remove it

1233
01:11:51,640 --> 01:11:55,160
Speaker 1: after shooting and sweat trapped between his skin and the

1234
01:11:55,240 --> 01:11:58,840
Speaker 1: latex appliances would pour off his skin like a river.

1235
01:11:59,400 --> 01:12:03,080
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, there's a disgusting mental image for you. So

1236
01:12:03,120 --> 01:12:06,320
Speaker 1: in pulling off a bunch of latex old age appliances

1237
01:12:06,360 --> 01:12:08,200
Speaker 1: and sweat dripping out of it.

1238
01:12:11,240 --> 01:12:13,519
Speaker 2: Yet another problem with the Iraq shoot was that the

1239
01:12:13,600 --> 01:12:17,920
Speaker 2: massive statue of Pazuzu was accidentally sent to Hong Kong

1240
01:12:18,000 --> 01:12:20,080
Speaker 2: at first, and not Iraq.

1241
01:12:20,680 --> 01:12:24,800
Speaker 1: So fun fact about the name of the demon Pazzuzu,

1242
01:12:25,280 --> 01:12:28,400
Speaker 1: it is not actually mentioned in the first movie. It's

1243
01:12:28,720 --> 01:12:34,480
Speaker 1: only actually mentioned in the second movie, which is famously

1244
01:12:34,560 --> 01:12:37,920
Speaker 1: one of the most dog movies ever made. It is

1245
01:12:38,160 --> 01:12:42,280
Speaker 1: truly awful, despite having both Blair return, James Earl Jones,

1246
01:12:42,640 --> 01:12:49,080
Speaker 1: Richard Burton, and Nurse Ratchet herself. Oh Louise Fletcher. Yeah, yes, yes,

1247
01:12:49,280 --> 01:12:54,240
Speaker 1: and it is stunningly, stunningly dog. I really directed that,

1248
01:12:54,400 --> 01:12:59,160
Speaker 1: John Borman, Yeah, yeah, yeah, wow. But yes, that is

1249
01:12:59,200 --> 01:13:03,240
Speaker 1: the film in which the demon says, I am Pazuzu. So,

1250
01:13:03,560 --> 01:13:09,040
Speaker 1: I mean that's kind of the name. It's a little Yeah,

1251
01:13:09,160 --> 01:13:12,040
Speaker 1: it's not the most phonetically threatening name you could come

1252
01:13:12,120 --> 01:13:19,080
Speaker 1: up with. No, uh, what's a good like something or

1253
01:13:19,920 --> 01:13:29,560
Speaker 1: like anything in or is threatening? Yeah, yeah, or Thomas Gary.

1254
01:13:30,040 --> 01:13:38,120
Speaker 1: I am Gary the Demon. I am Gary. I had

1255
01:13:38,120 --> 01:13:39,280
Speaker 1: a whole bit in college.

1256
01:13:39,360 --> 01:13:42,800
Speaker 2: I just because you know, there are plenty of people

1257
01:13:42,880 --> 01:13:46,720
Speaker 2: named Gary, but I've never seen a baby named Gary, Like,

1258
01:13:46,880 --> 01:13:51,920
Speaker 2: can you imagine a baby named Gary An a whole sketch.

1259
01:13:51,600 --> 01:13:54,000
Speaker 1: That was just baby Gary. He's just born with a

1260
01:13:54,080 --> 01:13:56,479
Speaker 1: with a five o'clock shadow and a bad back and

1261
01:13:57,080 --> 01:14:00,320
Speaker 1: worried about, you know, refinancing his house. Yeah, yeah, I

1262
01:14:00,320 --> 01:14:03,400
Speaker 1: know the tracks. He's got to get his boat siding replaced.

1263
01:14:06,680 --> 01:14:09,760
Speaker 2: Well, one problem that Freakan didn't have was with the

1264
01:14:09,800 --> 01:14:14,439
Speaker 2: Catholic Church, which is surprising to me. Freaking said at

1265
01:14:14,439 --> 01:14:16,680
Speaker 2: the aforementioned Q and A that quote, most of the

1266
01:14:16,720 --> 01:14:19,240
Speaker 2: people at the highest levels of the church accepted the

1267
01:14:19,280 --> 01:14:23,000
Speaker 2: film totally because the Roman ritual of exorcism is still

1268
01:14:23,000 --> 01:14:26,240
Speaker 2: in the New Testament, adding that church officials later told

1269
01:14:26,320 --> 01:14:28,880
Speaker 2: him they credited the film for inspiring a flood of

1270
01:14:28,920 --> 01:14:31,760
Speaker 2: applications to convents and seminaries.

1271
01:14:32,479 --> 01:14:35,160
Speaker 1: I mean, it is actually a deeply conservative film in

1272
01:14:35,160 --> 01:14:39,400
Speaker 1: a sense because it's you know, the Catholic Catholicism wins

1273
01:14:39,720 --> 01:14:43,240
Speaker 1: and solves what science could not, Like you see how

1274
01:14:43,280 --> 01:14:45,479
Speaker 1: the church would have been like, oh yeah, we count

1275
01:14:45,520 --> 01:14:49,320
Speaker 1: as one as a w Did it win? Well it

1276
01:14:49,840 --> 01:14:55,240
Speaker 1: won for Reagan, Yeah, okay, it won the battle, lost

1277
01:14:55,280 --> 01:14:59,240
Speaker 1: the war. Well, yeah, on the plus side, for the

1278
01:14:59,280 --> 01:14:59,920
Speaker 1: Catholic church.

1279
01:15:00,160 --> 01:15:02,880
Speaker 2: Two real life priests appear in the film. One of

1280
01:15:02,920 --> 01:15:05,080
Speaker 2: them was a priest from Buffalo, New York, named Father

1281
01:15:05,240 --> 01:15:09,759
Speaker 2: William O'Malley, who once gave William Peter Bladdie grief about

1282
01:15:09,760 --> 01:15:14,400
Speaker 2: the characterization of Father Karras and his novel. He was

1283
01:15:14,439 --> 01:15:18,400
Speaker 2: cast as Karas his mentor, Father Joseph Dyer, who I

1284
01:15:18,560 --> 01:15:22,160
Speaker 2: believe is the guy who comes up to his body

1285
01:15:22,400 --> 01:15:24,559
Speaker 2: after it's thrown down the stairs at the end and

1286
01:15:24,600 --> 01:15:25,880
Speaker 2: gives him last absolution.

1287
01:15:26,080 --> 01:15:33,120
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, and we'll talk about that, yeah, yeah, oh yeah.

1288
01:15:33,160 --> 01:15:37,080
Speaker 2: Also, the Jesuit Reverend Thomas Birmingham appears as the president

1289
01:15:37,120 --> 01:15:40,360
Speaker 2: of Georgetown. William Freakin later said the cardinal in New

1290
01:15:40,439 --> 01:15:43,800
Speaker 2: York preached about the Exorcist from the pulpit and said

1291
01:15:43,840 --> 01:15:46,240
Speaker 2: great things about it. The guy who was the head

1292
01:15:46,240 --> 01:15:49,040
Speaker 2: of the Jesuit order at the time, Father Pedro Arupe,

1293
01:15:49,360 --> 01:15:51,960
Speaker 2: who is headquartered in Milan, he had his own print

1294
01:15:52,000 --> 01:15:54,240
Speaker 2: of it and would show it to his fellow priests

1295
01:15:54,280 --> 01:15:57,479
Speaker 2: and bishops and cardinals. I mean, I get it, but

1296
01:15:57,560 --> 01:16:03,320
Speaker 2: I just have a hard time, especially with the crucifix shot. Well, yeah,

1297
01:16:03,360 --> 01:16:05,000
Speaker 2: imagining these priests would watch that.

1298
01:16:05,320 --> 01:16:09,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you know, they were, they were having a

1299
01:16:09,439 --> 01:16:13,600
Speaker 1: tough time in the seventies. Yeah, there was a Beatles

1300
01:16:13,760 --> 01:16:21,800
Speaker 1: Rosemary's Baby, you know, pot they led Zeppelin. They needed

1301
01:16:21,800 --> 01:16:22,120
Speaker 1: a win.

1302
01:16:25,640 --> 01:16:29,200
Speaker 2: Still, there were dissenters about The Exorcist. Freaking would add.

1303
01:16:29,240 --> 01:16:32,439
Speaker 2: The cardinal in Boston loathed it and wanted it banned,

1304
01:16:32,880 --> 01:16:36,519
Speaker 2: as cardinals in Boston often do. Billy Graham, who was

1305
01:16:36,560 --> 01:16:39,400
Speaker 2: not Catholic, it deserves to be said, denounced it from

1306
01:16:39,439 --> 01:16:42,400
Speaker 2: the pulpit and said, the devil is in every frame

1307
01:16:42,439 --> 01:16:43,960
Speaker 2: of this film.

1308
01:16:44,680 --> 01:16:48,320
Speaker 1: Hum, you know you do it well. If Billy Graham

1309
01:16:48,520 --> 01:16:51,800
Speaker 1: name drops here, yeah, it comes for you. So now

1310
01:16:51,800 --> 01:16:53,280
Speaker 1: we have to get to the other most famous thing

1311
01:16:53,280 --> 01:16:58,840
Speaker 1: about the Exorcist, which is the alleged cur suh. He

1312
01:16:59,000 --> 01:17:02,000
Speaker 1: was a curse said to feel three froze again. What

1313
01:17:02,040 --> 01:17:09,960
Speaker 1: am I doing? Curse froze again? Yeah. And in fairness,

1314
01:17:09,960 --> 01:17:13,360
Speaker 1: there was an admittedly tremendous run of bad luck the

1315
01:17:13,439 --> 01:17:16,520
Speaker 1: profel production, and we'll list them in order of severity.

1316
01:17:17,400 --> 01:17:19,920
Speaker 1: As we mentioned, the statue of Pazuzu was lost in

1317
01:17:19,960 --> 01:17:22,519
Speaker 1: transit to Iraq, which delayed production there for three or

1318
01:17:22,560 --> 01:17:26,400
Speaker 1: four weeks. Half the eighteen person crew in Iraq were

1319
01:17:26,720 --> 01:17:29,240
Speaker 1: replaced at one point or another due to either dysentery

1320
01:17:29,360 --> 01:17:34,240
Speaker 1: or sunstroke. Which would you prefer? Ooh, I think dysentery. Yes,

1321
01:17:34,439 --> 01:17:37,240
Speaker 1: is a clowns. You know, you're just looking afford to

1322
01:17:37,280 --> 01:17:39,320
Speaker 1: lose some weight. I'll go at dysentery. Yeah, you just

1323
01:17:39,360 --> 01:17:42,000
Speaker 1: scooped out for a couple of days. You're not like

1324
01:17:42,080 --> 01:17:47,879
Speaker 1: it's like a colonic. It's like a free colonic. Most famously,

1325
01:17:47,880 --> 01:17:50,080
Speaker 1: a fire at Fox Studios in New York on West

1326
01:17:50,080 --> 01:17:54,320
Speaker 1: fifty fourth destroyed most of the interior sets when only

1327
01:17:54,400 --> 01:17:57,880
Speaker 1: an NYC baby Greatest City in the World bing bong

1328
01:17:58,600 --> 01:18:02,840
Speaker 1: a pigeon flew into his circuit box cause sky rat,

1329
01:18:03,320 --> 01:18:07,280
Speaker 1: causing a six week delay. However, and six weeks six

1330
01:18:07,320 --> 01:18:11,519
Speaker 1: weeks man this film film for over a year. God, however,

1331
01:18:11,920 --> 01:18:16,799
Speaker 1: and this is the spookiest part. I think it's turning

1332
01:18:16,800 --> 01:18:22,840
Speaker 1: into Dracula now. Uh. The set for Reagan's room was untouched. Wow.

1333
01:18:23,479 --> 01:18:26,240
Speaker 1: Dun dun dun dun dun dun dun du dund dun

1334
01:18:26,280 --> 01:18:31,519
Speaker 1: dun dund dun dud dun du walking on broken class No,

1335
01:18:31,600 --> 01:18:37,400
Speaker 1: I just have poor pitch. According to Possessed, The True

1336
01:18:37,400 --> 01:18:40,559
Speaker 1: Story of an Exorcism by Thomas B. Allen Freakin, asked

1337
01:18:40,560 --> 01:18:43,519
Speaker 1: one of the film's consultants, the aforementioned father Birmingham, to

1338
01:18:43,600 --> 01:18:47,640
Speaker 1: perform an exorcism on the set. But because in Catholicism

1339
01:18:47,640 --> 01:18:49,640
Speaker 1: there were actually very strict things you have to go

1340
01:18:49,720 --> 01:18:53,479
Speaker 1: through for exorcism, Birmingham said he this didn't qualify and

1341
01:18:53,600 --> 01:18:56,840
Speaker 1: b would probably just freak everyone out more. Uh So

1342
01:18:57,160 --> 01:19:02,560
Speaker 1: he blessed it instead and also a spooky part. Burmingham

1343
01:19:02,560 --> 01:19:05,879
Speaker 1: told Alan nothing else happened on the set after the ritual,

1344
01:19:06,160 --> 01:19:09,120
Speaker 1: but around that time there was a fire in the

1345
01:19:09,240 --> 01:19:16,360
Speaker 1: Jesuit residence in Georgetown or the set for it. Spooky.

1346
01:19:16,400 --> 01:19:19,760
Speaker 1: Ellen Burston actually suffered a permanent injury to her back,

1347
01:19:19,800 --> 01:19:22,640
Speaker 1: but not because of anything supernatural, because Billy Freakin was

1348
01:19:22,680 --> 01:19:25,400
Speaker 1: a dickhead. She was performing the scene where she gets

1349
01:19:25,479 --> 01:19:28,320
Speaker 1: yanked back and slammed against the wall. I possessed Reagan

1350
01:19:28,439 --> 01:19:30,759
Speaker 1: and you know they did that in the old fashioned

1351
01:19:30,760 --> 01:19:32,479
Speaker 1: way where they just put some wires on you and

1352
01:19:32,560 --> 01:19:36,280
Speaker 1: pulled real hard. And she told she asked, freaking like,

1353
01:19:36,400 --> 01:19:38,479
Speaker 1: you know, he's hurting me, Can you tell him to stop?

1354
01:19:38,560 --> 01:19:42,400
Speaker 1: And freaking said no, and do it harder. Yeah. Well,

1355
01:19:43,000 --> 01:19:45,720
Speaker 1: to hear Elan Burston tell it, she either saw or

1356
01:19:46,000 --> 01:19:50,360
Speaker 1: felt a freaking gesture behind her back to the stunt

1357
01:19:50,360 --> 01:19:54,200
Speaker 1: guy to not tone it down or to pull harder,

1358
01:19:55,040 --> 01:19:58,160
Speaker 1: and so the guy did. He slammed her against the

1359
01:19:58,200 --> 01:20:01,040
Speaker 1: wall and she fell on the floor, and that is

1360
01:20:01,080 --> 01:20:03,800
Speaker 1: her real scream of pain. That is the final take

1361
01:20:03,840 --> 01:20:07,400
Speaker 1: that appears in the film, and she permanently injured her back.

1362
01:20:08,040 --> 01:20:12,240
Speaker 1: Linda Blair was also permanently injured by a similar effect.

1363
01:20:13,120 --> 01:20:16,360
Speaker 1: She's in a wire harness being thrown up and down

1364
01:20:16,560 --> 01:20:20,800
Speaker 1: for that shot, and she was screaming in pain while

1365
01:20:20,840 --> 01:20:23,599
Speaker 1: she was shooting, but everyone thought she was just in character.

1366
01:20:24,840 --> 01:20:28,439
Speaker 1: The incident fractured part of her lower spine and resulted

1367
01:20:28,560 --> 01:20:33,880
Speaker 1: in lifelong scoliosis. Wow. Other people were minorly maimed. A

1368
01:20:33,960 --> 01:20:39,040
Speaker 1: crew member lost his toe, a carpenter chopped off his thumb.

1369
01:20:40,479 --> 01:20:45,519
Speaker 1: That was a fanzine called Cassel Frankenstein that director Joe

1370
01:20:45,640 --> 01:20:50,320
Speaker 1: Dante actually wrote. For one point. Jason Miller's son Jason,

1371
01:20:50,560 --> 01:20:53,240
Speaker 1: who himself was an actor and maybe best known for

1372
01:20:53,280 --> 01:20:56,599
Speaker 1: his role in The Lost Boys, was critically injured during

1373
01:20:56,720 --> 01:21:00,719
Speaker 1: filming when he was struck by a motorcyclist on a beach.

1374
01:21:01,200 --> 01:21:04,439
Speaker 1: Was Jason's son in this movie, No, but Jason Patrick

1375
01:21:04,520 --> 01:21:06,639
Speaker 1: is the kid's name. He's gone on to be in

1376
01:21:06,800 --> 01:21:08,280
Speaker 1: quite a bit of stuff.

1377
01:21:08,880 --> 01:21:12,519
Speaker 2: Wait, he's the one who broke Julia Roberts heart. They

1378
01:21:12,520 --> 01:21:14,599
Speaker 2: were engaged and then they broke up right.

1379
01:21:14,479 --> 01:21:16,040
Speaker 1: Before you know, I was Keifer Sutherland.

1380
01:21:16,560 --> 01:21:21,639
Speaker 2: Oh right, revenge on Keifer Sutherland by having an affair

1381
01:21:21,720 --> 01:21:23,599
Speaker 2: afterwards with Jason Patrick.

1382
01:21:23,600 --> 01:21:28,640
Speaker 1: You're right. So many lost boys, so little time, and

1383
01:21:28,680 --> 01:21:32,000
Speaker 1: now the deaths. In a documentary about the film, Ellen

1384
01:21:32,040 --> 01:21:36,040
Speaker 1: Burston recalled that an astounding nine people died during the

1385
01:21:36,040 --> 01:21:40,000
Speaker 1: making of the film. She quoted an assistant cameraman whose

1386
01:21:40,000 --> 01:21:43,479
Speaker 1: wife had a baby during the shoot. The baby either

1387
01:21:43,560 --> 01:21:46,439
Speaker 1: died or was still born, she said. The man who

1388
01:21:46,479 --> 01:21:51,960
Speaker 1: refrigerated the set died. The night watchman died. The aforementioned

1389
01:21:52,080 --> 01:21:55,559
Speaker 1: Vassiliki Mariaros, who played the father of Father Caro, who

1390
01:21:55,560 --> 01:21:58,920
Speaker 1: played the mother of Father Carris. Excuse me, she passed

1391
01:21:58,960 --> 01:22:01,519
Speaker 1: away during production in February nineteen seventy three at the

1392
01:22:01,560 --> 01:22:05,600
Speaker 1: age of eighty nine. Admittedly, while Jack mcgoweran who is

1393
01:22:05,640 --> 01:22:09,720
Speaker 1: an Irish actor who specialized in Beckett, he was one

1394
01:22:09,720 --> 01:22:13,320
Speaker 1: of the foremost stars of Beckett's plays. He played the

1395
01:22:13,400 --> 01:22:16,519
Speaker 1: drunk director Burke Dennings he finished filming, went back to

1396
01:22:16,560 --> 01:22:18,880
Speaker 1: London and died as a result of the flu epidemic

1397
01:22:18,880 --> 01:22:22,120
Speaker 1: that had broken out there. On his first day that

1398
01:22:22,160 --> 01:22:24,600
Speaker 1: he arrived in the States to film, Max von Sidau

1399
01:22:24,720 --> 01:22:28,280
Speaker 1: received word that his brother had unexpectedly died in Sweden

1400
01:22:28,680 --> 01:22:31,000
Speaker 1: and he had to return home, which further delayed shooting.

1401
01:22:31,200 --> 01:22:35,679
Speaker 1: Linda Blair's grandfather also died during the shoot. This curse

1402
01:22:35,840 --> 01:22:39,400
Speaker 1: persisted after alleged curse persisted after filming wrapped. This is

1403
01:22:39,439 --> 01:22:42,120
Speaker 1: pretty crazy. I do have to admit. The studio chose

1404
01:22:42,160 --> 01:22:45,519
Speaker 1: a theater across the street from a sixteenth century church

1405
01:22:45,600 --> 01:22:48,000
Speaker 1: in Rome for the premiere of the film in Italy,

1406
01:22:48,320 --> 01:22:50,960
Speaker 1: and as it happened, a thunderstorm was occurring that night,

1407
01:22:51,439 --> 01:22:53,920
Speaker 1: the church was struck by such a powerful blow of

1408
01:22:54,000 --> 01:22:57,080
Speaker 1: lightning that the cross on top of the spire broke

1409
01:22:57,160 --> 01:23:00,599
Speaker 1: off and fell into the plaza below, which really must

1410
01:23:00,640 --> 01:23:04,120
Speaker 1: have freaked everybody out, I have to say. And then

1411
01:23:04,160 --> 01:23:07,519
Speaker 1: also in twenty fifteen, Hatra, which was a designated World

1412
01:23:07,560 --> 01:23:11,360
Speaker 1: Heritage Site where the prologue was shot, was damaged by

1413
01:23:11,840 --> 01:23:21,680
Speaker 1: militants from isis now it gets worse, it gets Yeah,

1414
01:23:21,960 --> 01:23:24,400
Speaker 1: So one of the most famous scenes in the film,

1415
01:23:24,439 --> 01:23:26,400
Speaker 1: And honestly, the one that I have the most trouble

1416
01:23:26,400 --> 01:23:30,360
Speaker 1: watchings is this is what supposedly caused people to run

1417
01:23:30,360 --> 01:23:33,479
Speaker 1: out of the theater and puke or faint. This is

1418
01:23:33,520 --> 01:23:35,920
Speaker 1: the scene in which Reagan undergoes a procedure called a

1419
01:23:35,960 --> 01:23:40,400
Speaker 1: cerebral angiography, and that was It's a now archaic y ok, buddy,

1420
01:23:41,120 --> 01:23:46,320
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, I'm just white knuckle up, clear this description. Yeah. So,

1421
01:23:46,400 --> 01:23:48,960
Speaker 1: it is a now archaic medical procedure in which a

1422
01:23:49,000 --> 01:23:51,960
Speaker 1: patient's carotid artery from the front of the neck was

1423
01:23:51,960 --> 01:23:54,960
Speaker 1: punctured in order to insert a catheter, during which a

1424
01:23:55,080 --> 01:23:58,320
Speaker 1: contrast agent was injected to make the patient's blood vessels

1425
01:23:58,360 --> 01:24:00,560
Speaker 1: more visible under X rays. They did it to the

1426
01:24:00,600 --> 01:24:03,840
Speaker 1: curated because it was the fastest and most powerful way

1427
01:24:03,880 --> 01:24:07,320
Speaker 1: that this coloring agent would circulate through the body. But

1428
01:24:07,439 --> 01:24:11,519
Speaker 1: it is gross. It is a not an artery you

1429
01:24:11,600 --> 01:24:15,479
Speaker 1: want punctured. Generally speaking, I'm not a doctor, but I

1430
01:24:15,520 --> 01:24:19,320
Speaker 1: do know that freaking just happened upon it. While he

1431
01:24:19,360 --> 01:24:23,160
Speaker 1: was visiting NYU. He was researching these different medical procedures

1432
01:24:23,200 --> 01:24:25,280
Speaker 1: that would be portrayed in the film, and the doctor

1433
01:24:25,280 --> 01:24:28,519
Speaker 1: who arranged the visit recommended that he witnessed this procedure

1434
01:24:28,560 --> 01:24:31,439
Speaker 1: performed by a tech named Paul Bateson. Freakin was so

1435
01:24:31,520 --> 01:24:36,040
Speaker 1: impressed with Bateson's deft hand with the procedure and especially

1436
01:24:36,040 --> 01:24:39,120
Speaker 1: with young children, that he cast Bateson in the film,

1437
01:24:40,000 --> 01:24:42,280
Speaker 1: and that scene of the exercise is now one of

1438
01:24:42,280 --> 01:24:44,960
Speaker 1: the only places where you can see this footage of

1439
01:24:45,000 --> 01:24:48,280
Speaker 1: this procedure being performed, because it's no longer done, and

1440
01:24:48,320 --> 01:24:52,360
Speaker 1: it's become famous in medical circles for this accuracy. Now,

1441
01:24:53,920 --> 01:24:58,720
Speaker 1: that's not where Bateson's story ends. Bateson was a lifelong alcoholic.

1442
01:24:59,280 --> 01:25:02,000
Speaker 1: He dipped in and out of sobriety and was a

1443
01:25:02,120 --> 01:25:04,040
Speaker 1: patron of the He was also a gay man and

1444
01:25:04,160 --> 01:25:07,640
Speaker 1: was a patron and frequenter of the West Village's gay bars,

1445
01:25:07,680 --> 01:25:10,439
Speaker 1: in particular leather clubs like the mind Shaft. But it

1446
01:25:10,479 --> 01:25:12,599
Speaker 1: was at a Christopher Street bar called the bad Lands

1447
01:25:12,600 --> 01:25:15,000
Speaker 1: that he met Addison Verel, who was a reporter for

1448
01:25:15,040 --> 01:25:17,800
Speaker 1: a variety at the time. The two ended up drinking

1449
01:25:17,800 --> 01:25:20,240
Speaker 1: all night doing drugs. They went back to Veryl's apartment

1450
01:25:20,240 --> 01:25:23,439
Speaker 1: and had sex, and then Veryl ended up being murdered.

1451
01:25:24,240 --> 01:25:26,559
Speaker 1: A friend of Verrel's was a gay activist and journalist

1452
01:25:26,640 --> 01:25:29,360
Speaker 1: named Arthur Bell, and he wrote an article about Verel's

1453
01:25:29,439 --> 01:25:33,080
Speaker 1: murder in The Village Voice, contextualizing within the larger epidemic

1454
01:25:33,200 --> 01:25:36,120
Speaker 1: of violence and murders that were happening to gay men

1455
01:25:36,160 --> 01:25:39,880
Speaker 1: in the West Village and the nypds seeming refusal or

1456
01:25:39,920 --> 01:25:43,120
Speaker 1: inability to do anything about it. The article ended with

1457
01:25:43,240 --> 01:25:47,280
Speaker 1: Bell's phone number. It's kind of an insane thing to

1458
01:25:47,320 --> 01:25:49,479
Speaker 1: do for a journalist. You would not get away with

1459
01:25:49,560 --> 01:25:55,240
Speaker 1: that today. Self boxing, yeah, and Bateson called him. He

1460
01:25:55,320 --> 01:25:57,719
Speaker 1: didn't identify himself by name, but he had a number

1461
01:25:57,760 --> 01:25:59,760
Speaker 1: of details about the murder that were not released to

1462
01:25:59,760 --> 01:26:03,200
Speaker 1: the public. While waiting for Bateson to call back, Bell

1463
01:26:03,400 --> 01:26:06,960
Speaker 1: and the NYPD who were there received another call, this

1464
01:26:07,040 --> 01:26:09,720
Speaker 1: time from a guy who said he knew Batesen from

1465
01:26:09,760 --> 01:26:13,880
Speaker 1: a detox program. This guy said that Bateson also called

1466
01:26:13,960 --> 01:26:17,439
Speaker 1: him to confess, so they arrested him, and long story short,

1467
01:26:17,600 --> 01:26:20,080
Speaker 1: he ended up serving a little over twenty four years

1468
01:26:20,320 --> 01:26:22,400
Speaker 1: for the murder. He is believed to have died in

1469
01:26:22,400 --> 01:26:28,519
Speaker 1: twenty twenty one. It gets weirder because Freakin visited him

1470
01:26:28,560 --> 01:26:31,599
Speaker 1: with in jail Bateson and spoke with him about a

1471
01:26:31,640 --> 01:26:35,040
Speaker 1: series of serial killings of gay men that the NYPD

1472
01:26:35,240 --> 01:26:38,280
Speaker 1: believed Bateson may have been connected to. These were called

1473
01:26:38,280 --> 01:26:43,639
Speaker 1: the bag murders because the victims were dismembered and placed

1474
01:26:43,680 --> 01:26:47,920
Speaker 1: in the Hudson River in bags, and they had markings

1475
01:26:47,960 --> 01:26:50,799
Speaker 1: on them indicating that they had come from the NYU

1476
01:26:50,880 --> 01:26:56,280
Speaker 1: Medical Center's neuropsychiatric unit. Bateson told Freakin that the NYPD

1477
01:26:56,400 --> 01:26:59,240
Speaker 1: was pressuring him to confess to these murders in exchange

1478
01:26:59,280 --> 01:27:04,080
Speaker 1: for reduced and he was never conclusively linked to them anyway.

1479
01:27:04,760 --> 01:27:08,479
Speaker 1: This whole thing then spurred Freaking to adapt New York

1480
01:27:08,479 --> 01:27:12,479
Speaker 1: Times reporter Gerald Walker's nineteen seventy novel Cruising, about a

1481
01:27:12,479 --> 01:27:15,280
Speaker 1: police officer going undercover in the gay community to catch

1482
01:27:15,320 --> 01:27:19,719
Speaker 1: a serial killer. That film stars a hilariously too old

1483
01:27:19,720 --> 01:27:23,519
Speaker 1: for the role Al Pacino and features scenes that were

1484
01:27:23,600 --> 01:27:27,960
Speaker 1: set at the gay club hell Fire that was redecorated

1485
01:27:28,000 --> 01:27:32,080
Speaker 1: to resemble The Mine Shaft, and it came out in

1486
01:27:32,160 --> 01:27:35,960
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty to widespread protests from the gay community, although

1487
01:27:35,960 --> 01:27:42,080
Speaker 1: it has since been reclassified as something of a cult classic. WHOA,

1488
01:27:42,160 --> 01:27:46,719
Speaker 1: what is the Mine Shaft? It's a leather club. Oh yeah.

1489
01:27:46,920 --> 01:27:50,400
Speaker 1: There's a scene in Cruising in which a large black

1490
01:27:50,439 --> 01:27:53,439
Speaker 1: man strides into the interrogation room dressed in nothing but

1491
01:27:53,479 --> 01:27:57,439
Speaker 1: a jockstrap and a cowboy hat and slaps someone across

1492
01:27:57,479 --> 01:28:00,400
Speaker 1: the face and then walks out. It is never explained

1493
01:28:00,520 --> 01:28:07,760
Speaker 1: or addressed further sounds like my first day at people. Hey,

1494
01:28:07,840 --> 01:28:14,200
Speaker 1: you're still under an NDA. You can't talk about that. Uh.

1495
01:28:14,640 --> 01:28:18,200
Speaker 1: We make jokes to trial lighten this ye, to get

1496
01:28:18,240 --> 01:28:20,680
Speaker 1: into the rockets darker. Yeah.

1497
01:28:20,760 --> 01:28:23,960
Speaker 2: Lastly, and perhaps most horribly, the voice of the demon.

1498
01:28:24,080 --> 01:28:28,360
Speaker 2: Mercedes McCambridge suffered an unimaginable loss in nineteen eighty nine

1499
01:28:28,400 --> 01:28:32,760
Speaker 2: by her son John Markle, who'd committed assorted crimes at

1500
01:28:32,760 --> 01:28:36,479
Speaker 2: his investment firm, killed his wife, Christine, and their two daughters,

1501
01:28:36,520 --> 01:28:39,760
Speaker 2: Amy and Suzanne, and then himself in their little rock home.

1502
01:28:40,880 --> 01:28:44,599
Speaker 2: He supposedly wore a Halloween style mask to commit the murders.

1503
01:28:44,640 --> 01:28:47,599
Speaker 2: Do you mean like a Michael Myers No, I think just.

1504
01:28:47,520 --> 01:28:49,000
Speaker 1: Like a dime store Halloween mask.

1505
01:28:49,680 --> 01:28:54,040
Speaker 2: Jesus Christy wore a Halloween style mask to commit these

1506
01:28:54,120 --> 01:28:57,920
Speaker 2: murders and left a fairly cruel note to McCambridge that,

1507
01:28:58,600 --> 01:29:00,760
Speaker 2: although it absolved her of any wrong doing in his

1508
01:29:00,880 --> 01:29:05,200
Speaker 2: financial crimes, basically accused her of being an absentee mother.

1509
01:29:05,920 --> 01:29:09,000
Speaker 1: I think you can read the text on her Wikipedia page.

1510
01:29:09,520 --> 01:29:13,400
Speaker 1: It is not nice. Yeah, don't investigate that further. Yeah, no,

1511
01:29:13,560 --> 01:29:14,400
Speaker 1: you really don't want to.

1512
01:29:15,640 --> 01:29:17,519
Speaker 2: Of course, at least some of the misery on the

1513
01:29:17,560 --> 01:29:19,360
Speaker 2: set of The Exorcist could be chalked up to the

1514
01:29:19,400 --> 01:29:24,200
Speaker 2: film's production schedule. Principal photography went from the scheduled eighty

1515
01:29:24,280 --> 01:29:27,479
Speaker 2: five days to more than two hundred, meaning that the

1516
01:29:27,520 --> 01:29:30,479
Speaker 2: movie went two point five million dollars or twelve point

1517
01:29:30,560 --> 01:29:35,320
Speaker 2: five million dollars to day over budget. They'd lost somewhere

1518
01:29:35,320 --> 01:29:38,320
Speaker 2: in the neighborhood of about four months of shooting time

1519
01:29:38,360 --> 01:29:42,280
Speaker 2: owing to various delays, so they were behind schedule and rushing.

1520
01:29:43,120 --> 01:29:46,240
Speaker 2: This coupled with the fact that interiors were shot primarily

1521
01:29:46,280 --> 01:29:50,040
Speaker 2: with available light as opposed to being professionally lit. I

1522
01:29:50,040 --> 01:29:52,839
Speaker 2: think I saw something about how Freakin wanted the kitchen

1523
01:29:53,200 --> 01:29:56,200
Speaker 2: to be all like stainless steel appliances and shiny surfaces

1524
01:29:56,200 --> 01:29:58,200
Speaker 2: and the sunnitographers.

1525
01:29:57,400 --> 01:29:59,960
Speaker 1: Can't light this. He was like, Yeah, what a matter?

1526
01:30:00,320 --> 01:30:03,400
Speaker 1: Pain in the ass that was? It's like lighting this

1527
01:30:03,520 --> 01:30:07,160
Speaker 1: consisted of flicking the switch on the ceiling light and

1528
01:30:07,280 --> 01:30:08,160
Speaker 1: just going for it.

1529
01:30:09,400 --> 01:30:15,040
Speaker 2: So these sets were dim and consequently accident prone, which

1530
01:30:15,080 --> 01:30:19,240
Speaker 2: is not exactly a combination for an injury free set.

1531
01:30:19,400 --> 01:30:22,719
Speaker 2: As you say, then, of course there is good old

1532
01:30:22,800 --> 01:30:27,400
Speaker 2: Billy Friedkin, who could be a tremendous bastard aside from

1533
01:30:27,439 --> 01:30:31,400
Speaker 2: the aforementioned situation with Burston in which she broke.

1534
01:30:31,160 --> 01:30:34,160
Speaker 1: Her coxsis, I believe it was the outcome of that

1535
01:30:34,280 --> 01:30:37,880
Speaker 1: of the back injury. Yeah, freaking combined an exacting and

1536
01:30:37,960 --> 01:30:43,000
Speaker 1: exhaustive approach to filming with down light awful behavior. He also,

1537
01:30:43,120 --> 01:30:45,880
Speaker 1: I love this, denied the extent of Ellen Burston's injuries

1538
01:30:45,920 --> 01:30:48,560
Speaker 1: in a twenty eighteen interview, saying I'm sure she was

1539
01:30:48,640 --> 01:30:50,760
Speaker 1: hurt by the fall. You follow on your backside, it's

1540
01:30:50,800 --> 01:30:54,679
Speaker 1: gonna hurt, But she wasn't injured, as my father's high

1541
01:30:54,680 --> 01:30:57,840
Speaker 1: school football coach would say, is it pain or is

1542
01:30:57,880 --> 01:31:03,800
Speaker 1: it injury? Jesus Pennsylvania high school football? My friends. So

1543
01:31:03,920 --> 01:31:07,320
Speaker 1: here's some tales of Freakin's particular brand of horse on

1544
01:31:07,360 --> 01:31:10,080
Speaker 1: the set of Exorcists, as were counted in the legendary

1545
01:31:10,760 --> 01:31:14,720
Speaker 1: tome on seventies Hollywood Easy Riders Raging Bulls, absolutely a

1546
01:31:14,800 --> 01:31:18,480
Speaker 1: must read for anybody interested in this era of cinema.

1547
01:31:18,640 --> 01:31:20,360
Speaker 1: Some aer all of what you're about to hear, would

1548
01:31:20,400 --> 01:31:24,320
Speaker 1: earn William Friedkin the nickname Wacky Willie from his crew.

1549
01:31:24,560 --> 01:31:31,040
Speaker 1: So deeply downplaying the depths of this, he fired John

1550
01:31:31,160 --> 01:31:33,840
Speaker 1: Robert Lloyd, a production designer who'd worked with him on

1551
01:31:33,880 --> 01:31:37,320
Speaker 1: several films, the day before principal photography was set to begin.

1552
01:31:37,680 --> 01:31:43,080
Speaker 1: Delayed things six weeks. He had his director's chair stenciled

1553
01:31:43,120 --> 01:31:47,400
Speaker 1: with an oscar for the French connection next to his name.

1554
01:31:48,680 --> 01:31:52,000
Speaker 1: He delayed shooting while he sent his propmaster in search

1555
01:31:52,040 --> 01:31:55,599
Speaker 1: of preservative free bacon because he didn't like the way

1556
01:31:55,640 --> 01:32:00,360
Speaker 1: the bacon in a particular shot was curling. He worked

1557
01:32:00,360 --> 01:32:03,120
Speaker 1: so methodically that one crew member reported coming back from

1558
01:32:03,160 --> 01:32:06,479
Speaker 1: three days of sick leave to find Freakin's still shooting

1559
01:32:06,520 --> 01:32:09,240
Speaker 1: the same shot. He would fire people in the morning

1560
01:32:09,280 --> 01:32:12,760
Speaker 1: and rehire them by afternoon. One crew member recounted that

1561
01:32:12,800 --> 01:32:15,800
Speaker 1: Freakin had a smiling conversation and a handshake with a

1562
01:32:15,840 --> 01:32:18,120
Speaker 1: guy and then walked past him and said, get this

1563
01:32:18,200 --> 01:32:23,960
Speaker 1: guy out of here. Slapped William O'Malley, the aforementioned real

1564
01:32:24,000 --> 01:32:27,840
Speaker 1: life priest playing Father Dyer, across the face before a

1565
01:32:27,920 --> 01:32:30,880
Speaker 1: take to get a suitably emotional line reading from him.

1566
01:32:31,520 --> 01:32:33,599
Speaker 1: Though he did at least have the courtesy to ask

1567
01:32:33,680 --> 01:32:36,240
Speaker 1: him do you trust him? Before he struck him in

1568
01:32:36,240 --> 01:32:37,920
Speaker 1: the face, And.

1569
01:32:37,800 --> 01:32:40,559
Speaker 2: That was right before he was giving final absolution to

1570
01:32:40,640 --> 01:32:42,840
Speaker 2: Father Carris after it got thrown out the window, and.

1571
01:32:42,840 --> 01:32:47,360
Speaker 1: It was after like fifteen takes because Freaking was berating

1572
01:32:47,439 --> 01:32:49,360
Speaker 1: him and was like, you're not giving me enough, and

1573
01:32:49,600 --> 01:32:52,080
Speaker 1: man William O'Malley was like, I've just given my best

1574
01:32:52,080 --> 01:32:54,960
Speaker 1: friend the last writes fifteen times, like what do you

1575
01:32:55,000 --> 01:32:57,080
Speaker 1: want for me? And Freakin says, do you trust me?

1576
01:32:57,240 --> 01:33:00,840
Speaker 1: And then slapped him across the face him to roll again.

1577
01:33:02,040 --> 01:33:04,880
Speaker 1: Freaking once got drunk and attempted to do the tablecloth

1578
01:33:04,920 --> 01:33:07,240
Speaker 1: out from under the dish's trick on an enormous spread

1579
01:33:07,240 --> 01:33:10,120
Speaker 1: that Craft Service had set out for Christmas and failed,

1580
01:33:10,479 --> 01:33:13,960
Speaker 1: sending everything to the floor. He would play tapes of

1581
01:33:14,000 --> 01:33:16,800
Speaker 1: anything from South American tree frogs to the soundtrack of

1582
01:33:16,840 --> 01:33:19,639
Speaker 1: Psycho at high volume on the set to unnerve his actors.

1583
01:33:20,240 --> 01:33:22,799
Speaker 1: Perhaps most famously, he not only carried his own pistol

1584
01:33:22,920 --> 01:33:25,439
Speaker 1: on the set and fired it off frequently, but he'd

1585
01:33:25,439 --> 01:33:28,040
Speaker 1: also have his prop director randomly fire blanks from a

1586
01:33:28,040 --> 01:33:30,040
Speaker 1: shotgun to keep the actors in a state of fear

1587
01:33:30,160 --> 01:33:33,200
Speaker 1: and high alert. In an interview, Jason Miller recalled one

1588
01:33:33,200 --> 01:33:35,559
Speaker 1: of the arguments he got in with Freakin. Happened after

1589
01:33:35,680 --> 01:33:38,320
Speaker 1: the director fired a gun near his ear to get

1590
01:33:38,320 --> 01:33:41,920
Speaker 1: an authentic reaction from him. Just before a take. He

1591
01:33:42,000 --> 01:33:45,280
Speaker 1: threw a reel with music from Leialo Schiffrin, one of

1592
01:33:45,320 --> 01:33:48,120
Speaker 1: the film's original composers, across the street into a parking

1593
01:33:48,160 --> 01:33:51,400
Speaker 1: lot while in post production, saying that's where that in

1594
01:33:51,520 --> 01:33:56,320
Speaker 1: marimba music belongs. As per an interview with Eileen Dietz,

1595
01:33:56,320 --> 01:33:59,200
Speaker 1: who is Blair's stunt double for Reagan, Freakin wanted the

1596
01:33:59,200 --> 01:34:01,479
Speaker 1: smell of the demon to be rancid, so he did

1597
01:34:01,520 --> 01:34:04,160
Speaker 1: this thing during the possession sequences where he would hide

1598
01:34:04,200 --> 01:34:07,360
Speaker 1: old hamburger meat and rotten eggs on the set so

1599
01:34:07,400 --> 01:34:10,559
Speaker 1: it would make the actors feel uncomfortable. The problem was

1600
01:34:10,640 --> 01:34:12,680
Speaker 1: that the cast and crew all got sick, so we

1601
01:34:12,720 --> 01:34:16,080
Speaker 1: had to stop shooting. There was a whole discussion between

1602
01:34:16,160 --> 01:34:19,960
Speaker 1: Deets and Freaking about the masturbation scene where they argued

1603
01:34:20,000 --> 01:34:25,080
Speaker 1: over the correct way to mime masturbation with a crucifix. Yes,

1604
01:34:26,000 --> 01:34:28,280
Speaker 1: I just love William. Freaking was like, no, trust me,

1605
01:34:28,360 --> 01:34:30,960
Speaker 1: I know how to do this better. Than you, and

1606
01:34:31,000 --> 01:34:36,960
Speaker 1: she was like, I beg to differ as you meditate

1607
01:34:37,040 --> 01:34:39,240
Speaker 1: on that. We'll be right back with more too much

1608
01:34:39,280 --> 01:34:54,200
Speaker 1: information after these messages, and then of course has the

1609
01:34:54,240 --> 01:34:58,640
Speaker 1: whole refrigerated set situation, which be kind of touched on

1610
01:34:58,880 --> 01:35:03,320
Speaker 1: in Our Thing episode. Cinematographer Owen Reutzman explained in an

1611
01:35:03,320 --> 01:35:06,120
Speaker 1: interview with the American Society of Cinematographers that the set

1612
01:35:06,160 --> 01:35:09,879
Speaker 1: for Reagan's bedroom was duplicated and built inside a larger

1613
01:35:10,000 --> 01:35:16,920
Speaker 1: insulated structure and then refrigerated down to telemheigel twenty degrees

1614
01:35:16,960 --> 01:35:22,040
Speaker 1: below zero dah, because they wanted both the effect of

1615
01:35:22,120 --> 01:35:25,360
Speaker 1: seeing the actor's breath and of course they wanted to

1616
01:35:25,360 --> 01:35:30,400
Speaker 1: make the actors genuinely uncomfortable, as if the slapping, the gunshots,

1617
01:35:30,880 --> 01:35:35,480
Speaker 1: the psychological warfare style music being played at loud volumes,

1618
01:35:35,840 --> 01:35:41,160
Speaker 1: and the raw food wasn't enough, and presumably verbal abuse

1619
01:35:41,240 --> 01:35:45,240
Speaker 1: at every corner as well. I'm guessing yeah, yeah.

1620
01:35:45,280 --> 01:35:47,960
Speaker 2: We tried it at first, just below freezing about twenty

1621
01:35:47,960 --> 01:35:50,640
Speaker 2: five degrees, and you could see some breath, but it

1622
01:35:50,680 --> 01:35:52,760
Speaker 2: really wasn't enough, and as soon as the lights were

1623
01:35:52,760 --> 01:35:54,559
Speaker 2: turned on, the heat took care of the cold so

1624
01:35:54,680 --> 01:35:57,719
Speaker 2: quickly that it didn't even make a take. We found

1625
01:35:57,720 --> 01:36:00,040
Speaker 2: out during the test period that this wouldn't work. He

1626
01:36:00,120 --> 01:36:02,799
Speaker 2: went back to the drawing board. A system was developed

1627
01:36:02,800 --> 01:36:05,320
Speaker 2: that could refrigerate the room quickly to any temperature from

1628
01:36:05,439 --> 01:36:09,040
Speaker 2: zero to twenty below. The breath showed up fine at zero.

1629
01:36:09,479 --> 01:36:12,800
Speaker 2: Bo Freakin won the actors to really feel cold because

1630
01:36:12,800 --> 01:36:15,760
Speaker 2: he felt that would help their acting. An actor on

1631
01:36:15,800 --> 01:36:18,760
Speaker 2: their knees for fifteen minutes at twenty below zero is

1632
01:36:18,840 --> 01:36:20,240
Speaker 2: really going to feel cold.

1633
01:36:20,760 --> 01:36:22,240
Speaker 1: It worked out very well.

1634
01:36:23,600 --> 01:36:26,320
Speaker 2: It worked out very well for the performances. But the

1635
01:36:26,320 --> 01:36:29,920
Speaker 2: refrigeration system, which they adopted from a restaurant air conditioning

1636
01:36:30,040 --> 01:36:32,679
Speaker 2: unit and would leave on overnight that chilled the room

1637
01:36:32,720 --> 01:36:36,240
Speaker 2: before the actors arrived, cost fifty thousand dollars or almost

1638
01:36:36,240 --> 01:36:41,120
Speaker 2: half a million dollars today, and broke down constantly. And

1639
01:36:41,160 --> 01:36:43,320
Speaker 2: also the lighting they used would warm the room, so

1640
01:36:43,320 --> 01:36:46,320
Speaker 2: they could only complete about five shots a day, which

1641
01:36:46,360 --> 01:36:50,760
Speaker 2: slowed things down. All told, the exorcism scene, which was

1642
01:36:50,760 --> 01:36:54,400
Speaker 2: filmed entirely in sequence, took nearly a month to shoot.

1643
01:36:54,640 --> 01:36:58,120
Speaker 1: A month in a month under twenty degree in Hell.

1644
01:36:58,320 --> 01:37:03,840
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, a month in hell raw rotting food. Oh boy?

1645
01:37:03,920 --> 01:37:07,200
Speaker 2: Oh, my favorite anecdote about the horror frigeration scene. Apparently

1646
01:37:07,240 --> 01:37:09,320
Speaker 2: there was a layer of moisture in the set one

1647
01:37:09,400 --> 01:37:13,320
Speaker 2: day which resulted in a thin layer of snow. It

1648
01:37:13,439 --> 01:37:16,920
Speaker 2: started to snow in the bedroom set. I just I

1649
01:37:16,960 --> 01:37:19,320
Speaker 2: love contrasting this with the one hundred and thirty degree

1650
01:37:19,320 --> 01:37:21,599
Speaker 2: temperatures on location in Iraq, and.

1651
01:37:21,560 --> 01:37:25,639
Speaker 1: Maxwan Sidau was there for both. Like poor sweet Max

1652
01:37:25,680 --> 01:37:29,520
Speaker 1: Vaughn Sidau just a gentle mourning his brother gentlemanly swede

1653
01:37:29,560 --> 01:37:33,760
Speaker 1: in mourning, literally going from one temperature extreme to the other,

1654
01:37:34,920 --> 01:37:38,240
Speaker 1: while small child's screaming for vanities and obscenities at him.

1655
01:37:38,640 --> 01:37:42,160
Speaker 1: So there's all that under a more fun production note though,

1656
01:37:43,120 --> 01:37:46,799
Speaker 1: iconic makeup artist Dick Smith, who ultimately quit the films

1657
01:37:47,080 --> 01:37:51,479
Speaker 1: three times overworking the Speacon. He designed the old age

1658
01:37:51,520 --> 01:37:54,320
Speaker 1: makeup for Maxwan Sidau, and that was Dick Smith's specialty.

1659
01:37:54,360 --> 01:37:56,559
Speaker 1: He's basically held up as one of the pioneers of

1660
01:37:56,600 --> 01:38:00,880
Speaker 1: this particular sub genre of makeup effects. Yeah, that maximum

1661
01:38:00,920 --> 01:38:03,160
Speaker 1: set out in this movie was only I think forty four.

1662
01:38:03,479 --> 01:38:05,640
Speaker 1: Ye're not alone in that. Everyone was like when they

1663
01:38:05,640 --> 01:38:07,559
Speaker 1: saw him without the makeup, they were like, he's not

1664
01:38:07,800 --> 01:38:11,599
Speaker 1: that old. It took four hours to apply and Pauline Cale,

1665
01:38:11,960 --> 01:38:14,760
Speaker 1: the Dean of American Film Critics, singled it out in

1666
01:38:14,800 --> 01:38:18,240
Speaker 1: her otherwise not particularly positive review in The New Yorker.

1667
01:38:19,880 --> 01:38:22,840
Speaker 1: Smith's old age makeup method was something of a revolution

1668
01:38:22,960 --> 01:38:26,439
Speaker 1: in the film industry. He used multiple latex appliances in

1669
01:38:26,520 --> 01:38:30,719
Speaker 1: overlapping pieces instead of just a one piece mask, which

1670
01:38:30,720 --> 01:38:32,640
Speaker 1: had kind of been they would just slap something on

1671
01:38:32,720 --> 01:38:35,160
Speaker 1: and be like, ah year old now, and this was

1672
01:38:35,200 --> 01:38:38,120
Speaker 1: an innovation that allowed actors to actually act, that allowed

1673
01:38:38,160 --> 01:38:40,320
Speaker 1: them to access the full range of their facial expressions.

1674
01:38:41,680 --> 01:38:44,840
Speaker 1: Prior to the Exorcist, this was most famously seen in

1675
01:38:45,200 --> 01:38:48,960
Speaker 1: Little Big Man for Dustin Hoffman's character in nineteen seventy,

1676
01:38:49,040 --> 01:38:52,720
Speaker 1: which aged Hoffman to one hundred and twenty one years old.

1677
01:38:53,920 --> 01:38:57,040
Speaker 1: Dick Smith was also similarly remembered for aging Marlon Brando

1678
01:38:57,080 --> 01:39:00,280
Speaker 1: and The Godfather and f Murray Abraham in Amiday, for

1679
01:39:00,320 --> 01:39:04,120
Speaker 1: which he received an Oscar Because, as dutiful listeners will recall,

1680
01:39:04,640 --> 01:39:07,799
Speaker 1: the Oscars only instituted an award for makeup in nineteen

1681
01:39:07,840 --> 01:39:11,320
Speaker 1: eighty one for your beloved Rick Baker. Yes, for his

1682
01:39:11,400 --> 01:39:14,400
Speaker 1: work on an American Werewolven London, though there was a

1683
01:39:14,439 --> 01:39:17,280
Speaker 1: special Achievement award for makeup in nineteen sixty eight for

1684
01:39:17,360 --> 01:39:19,960
Speaker 1: Planet of the Apes. What do you think prompted this

1685
01:39:20,720 --> 01:39:23,880
Speaker 1: the best makeup category that added full time in eighty one?

1686
01:39:25,200 --> 01:39:28,160
Speaker 1: I mean it had to be. Might have been an

1687
01:39:28,160 --> 01:39:31,080
Speaker 1: American werewolf in London. I guess yeah, because the Thing

1688
01:39:31,160 --> 01:39:34,240
Speaker 1: wasn't until eighty two, so they hadn't truly seen what

1689
01:39:34,280 --> 01:39:36,439
Speaker 1: that could do. Yeah, it might have been that. Honestly,

1690
01:39:36,520 --> 01:39:39,400
Speaker 1: they were just like, this is so insane, new category.

1691
01:39:39,600 --> 01:39:41,720
Speaker 2: Also, your beloved Rick Baker, who worked on a lot

1692
01:39:41,760 --> 01:39:44,720
Speaker 2: of John Carpent movies, including The Thing, served as Dick

1693
01:39:44,760 --> 01:39:47,160
Speaker 2: Smith's makeup assistant for The Exorcist.

1694
01:39:47,400 --> 01:39:49,000
Speaker 1: I think this was the first time they worked together.

1695
01:39:49,160 --> 01:39:52,120
Speaker 1: He wrote him a letter because he read Dick Smith

1696
01:39:52,120 --> 01:39:54,519
Speaker 1: had a makeup book that came out, and Rick Baker

1697
01:39:54,520 --> 01:39:56,280
Speaker 1: wrote him a letter. It was like, you're my hero

1698
01:39:56,800 --> 01:39:59,479
Speaker 1: and Dick and Dick Smith, in his infinite generosity, was like,

1699
01:39:59,720 --> 01:40:04,040
Speaker 1: come for me. Smith was also responsible for the Demonic makeup,

1700
01:40:04,439 --> 01:40:06,639
Speaker 1: not just on Linda Blair, but on Blair's stunt double,

1701
01:40:07,560 --> 01:40:12,559
Speaker 1: the aforementioned woman whose ghoulish white makeup appears as single

1702
01:40:12,600 --> 01:40:15,320
Speaker 1: frame inserts in the film. That was the original look

1703
01:40:15,520 --> 01:40:17,160
Speaker 1: you hate it so much. I love it. I hate

1704
01:40:17,160 --> 01:40:19,479
Speaker 1: it's kind of goofy and quaint. I don't like the team.

1705
01:40:20,320 --> 01:40:22,360
Speaker 1: That was the original look that Smith concocted for Blair,

1706
01:40:22,400 --> 01:40:24,400
Speaker 1: but then freaking recalled it a Q and A Why

1707
01:40:24,439 --> 01:40:26,879
Speaker 1: don't we try and do what looks like she scarred

1708
01:40:26,920 --> 01:40:30,519
Speaker 1: herself and these sores will just progressively get worse and worse.

1709
01:40:31,280 --> 01:40:34,519
Speaker 1: Smith did a lot of research on gangrenous wounds and

1710
01:40:34,600 --> 01:40:37,759
Speaker 1: burned victims, and he brought me a lot of actual

1711
01:40:37,760 --> 01:40:41,639
Speaker 1: photos of people to whom that had happened. I think

1712
01:40:41,680 --> 01:40:43,719
Speaker 1: the most unsettling thing to me is when her lips

1713
01:40:43,760 --> 01:40:47,639
Speaker 1: start getting like really disgustingly chapped, like in the early

1714
01:40:48,439 --> 01:40:52,280
Speaker 1: medical testing scenes. It's just that really gets under my skin.

1715
01:40:52,760 --> 01:40:55,280
Speaker 1: Speaking of getting under your skin, some of the wounds

1716
01:40:55,320 --> 01:40:58,080
Speaker 1: sustained by Reagan during the possession were simple to achieve,

1717
01:40:58,439 --> 01:41:00,599
Speaker 1: like the branding on her arm, which is just a

1718
01:41:00,600 --> 01:41:03,120
Speaker 1: top layer of latex that they pulled off with wires.

1719
01:41:04,200 --> 01:41:07,000
Speaker 1: The other ones, like when the words Helped Me appear

1720
01:41:07,040 --> 01:41:10,759
Speaker 1: on her stomach, also deeply unsettling. That was a false

1721
01:41:10,760 --> 01:41:14,200
Speaker 1: stomach that they built out of latex, and they scratched

1722
01:41:14,240 --> 01:41:17,280
Speaker 1: the letters in first and then used it hair dryer

1723
01:41:17,880 --> 01:41:21,160
Speaker 1: to make them sort of recede, and then the shot

1724
01:41:21,200 --> 01:41:23,559
Speaker 1: you see in the film is that whole process run

1725
01:41:23,600 --> 01:41:27,439
Speaker 1: in reverse. I think it's so brilliant, so interesting. Smith

1726
01:41:27,520 --> 01:41:33,040
Speaker 1: also helped special effects supervisor Marcel Vercutier with the latex

1727
01:41:33,120 --> 01:41:36,760
Speaker 1: dummy built for the head rotating scene. Disgustingly, the thing

1728
01:41:36,800 --> 01:41:38,559
Speaker 1: had a condom in its throat to make it look

1729
01:41:38,600 --> 01:41:41,240
Speaker 1: like it was breathing, and a tube that blew warm

1730
01:41:41,280 --> 01:41:45,040
Speaker 1: air through it so that it would generate steam. Verkutel,

1731
01:41:45,400 --> 01:41:48,200
Speaker 1: in the nineteen ninety eight BBC documentary about the film,

1732
01:41:48,320 --> 01:41:51,040
Speaker 1: The Fear of God, said that they tested this thing

1733
01:41:51,120 --> 01:41:53,240
Speaker 1: by placing it in the front seat of a taxi

1734
01:41:53,280 --> 01:41:55,639
Speaker 1: in New York, and then when enough people were looking

1735
01:41:55,640 --> 01:41:58,080
Speaker 1: at it, they made the head spin and when that

1736
01:41:58,120 --> 01:42:01,760
Speaker 1: got the desired reaction, they said, oh, it'll work. It

1737
01:42:01,800 --> 01:42:03,719
Speaker 1: was one of the only things that made Linda Blair,

1738
01:42:03,800 --> 01:42:05,519
Speaker 1: who is otherwise a champ with the rest of the

1739
01:42:05,560 --> 01:42:11,000
Speaker 1: horrifying material in the film, uncomfortable. Speaking of uncomfortable, the

1740
01:42:11,040 --> 01:42:14,000
Speaker 1: projectile vomiting scene has become one of the defining images

1741
01:42:14,040 --> 01:42:16,800
Speaker 1: of the film. Freakin explained in a two thousand and

1742
01:42:16,800 --> 01:42:20,160
Speaker 1: eight interview with DGA quarterly over the years. Everyone refers

1743
01:42:20,160 --> 01:42:22,120
Speaker 1: to the vomit here as pea soup, but it was

1744
01:42:22,200 --> 01:42:25,320
Speaker 1: really porridge with pea soup coloring. It had a much

1745
01:42:25,360 --> 01:42:28,720
Speaker 1: better texture than pure pea soup. The brand they used

1746
01:42:28,720 --> 01:42:31,320
Speaker 1: for the pea soup was Anderson's. They tried Campbells at

1747
01:42:31,320 --> 01:42:35,040
Speaker 1: first but found it wanting. We used a very thin

1748
01:42:35,080 --> 01:42:37,200
Speaker 1: plastic tube that ran from the side of Linda's mouth,

1749
01:42:37,280 --> 01:42:39,880
Speaker 1: underneath her nightgumb down to the floor where a special

1750
01:42:39,920 --> 01:42:42,760
Speaker 1: effects technician was stationed with a Jerry rigged pump and

1751
01:42:42,800 --> 01:42:45,840
Speaker 1: a hand crank on cue. She would tilt her head

1752
01:42:45,840 --> 01:42:47,479
Speaker 1: the right way and he would pump the stuff up

1753
01:42:47,479 --> 01:42:50,880
Speaker 1: through the tube, seemingly out of her mouth. The consistency

1754
01:42:50,920 --> 01:42:53,000
Speaker 1: of the porridge is what determined the speed at which

1755
01:42:53,040 --> 01:42:56,200
Speaker 1: you would move through the pump. The actual take is

1756
01:42:56,240 --> 01:42:58,200
Speaker 1: in the film is something of It was either a

1757
01:42:58,240 --> 01:43:02,240
Speaker 1: mistake or another of Freakin's act of wanton cruelty. In

1758
01:43:02,240 --> 01:43:06,040
Speaker 1: every rehearsal, the mix landed squarely on Jason Miller's chest,

1759
01:43:06,640 --> 01:43:08,519
Speaker 1: and he was reassured that it would do that when

1760
01:43:08,520 --> 01:43:11,080
Speaker 1: they were actually filming, But when the cameras were rolling,

1761
01:43:11,240 --> 01:43:14,040
Speaker 1: it hit him in the face and his horrified reaction

1762
01:43:14,320 --> 01:43:16,559
Speaker 1: is completely genuine. And also I just want to say,

1763
01:43:16,680 --> 01:43:19,519
Speaker 1: we mentioned earlier that shot of father Maren arriving at

1764
01:43:19,520 --> 01:43:22,320
Speaker 1: the McNeil home with his suitcase being silhouetted in the

1765
01:43:22,360 --> 01:43:24,439
Speaker 1: street light and the mist is all du dun da

1766
01:43:24,520 --> 01:43:27,439
Speaker 1: dun da dun du dun dun duh. It's so iconic,

1767
01:43:27,479 --> 01:43:29,760
Speaker 1: it's awesome. I love it so much. That was coming

1768
01:43:29,760 --> 01:43:33,559
Speaker 1: from Bladdie's description as Maren as a melancholy traveler frozen

1769
01:43:33,600 --> 01:43:37,720
Speaker 1: in time, and Freakin wanted to recreate a painting by

1770
01:43:38,200 --> 01:43:44,680
Speaker 1: Belgian surrealist Rene Agreete, otherwise most famously known for Cinepa

1771
01:43:44,840 --> 01:43:47,719
Speaker 1: zun Peep for the Apple Records logo and the Apple

1772
01:43:47,760 --> 01:43:51,400
Speaker 1: Records logo. Yes, it was a painting called Empire of Light,

1773
01:43:51,840 --> 01:43:55,200
Speaker 1: and so he gave Owen Roysman, the cinematographer, the whole

1774
01:43:55,280 --> 01:43:58,400
Speaker 1: day to light the scene. They had to remove the

1775
01:43:58,439 --> 01:44:00,880
Speaker 1: window frame from the facade that they built on the house,

1776
01:44:01,200 --> 01:44:04,560
Speaker 1: replace it behind the window, and then put a spotlight

1777
01:44:04,600 --> 01:44:07,320
Speaker 1: in between the two layers to illustrate that specific spot

1778
01:44:07,360 --> 01:44:10,080
Speaker 1: where Maren would be standing. And then they also had

1779
01:44:10,080 --> 01:44:13,240
Speaker 1: to flood the whole street with fog, and Roysman said

1780
01:44:13,280 --> 01:44:15,960
Speaker 1: that as they set up for this shot, the wind

1781
01:44:16,080 --> 01:44:18,040
Speaker 1: started blowing, so they had to flood the street with

1782
01:44:18,080 --> 01:44:23,880
Speaker 1: even more fog. They also somehow upped the voltage on

1783
01:44:23,920 --> 01:44:26,640
Speaker 1: the street lights to get light coverage, which is like,

1784
01:44:26,920 --> 01:44:28,400
Speaker 1: I don't know how they if you had to apply

1785
01:44:28,439 --> 01:44:32,479
Speaker 1: to the city to do that, and they got it

1786
01:44:32,520 --> 01:44:38,840
Speaker 1: in the first take proper preparation. They also talked about

1787
01:44:38,840 --> 01:44:41,880
Speaker 1: the levitation scene, which they did with wires. Roysman said

1788
01:44:41,880 --> 01:44:44,160
Speaker 1: he wouldn't have had an issue hiding wires with lighting

1789
01:44:44,160 --> 01:44:48,160
Speaker 1: and background colors, but because of the way Freakin wanted it,

1790
01:44:48,520 --> 01:44:52,280
Speaker 1: Linda Blair was levity actually being lifted through multiple extremes

1791
01:44:52,320 --> 01:44:55,400
Speaker 1: of background light and shadow made him very difficult to

1792
01:44:55,479 --> 01:44:57,400
Speaker 1: hide the wires that he said they had to go

1793
01:44:57,479 --> 01:45:00,720
Speaker 1: in and practically paint frame by frame. He said it

1794
01:45:00,760 --> 01:45:04,760
Speaker 1: was like doing a retouching job all the way through. God,

1795
01:45:04,800 --> 01:45:08,240
Speaker 1: what a pain in the ass and worth it. Yes.

1796
01:45:09,280 --> 01:45:11,360
Speaker 2: Now, before we get into the music of The Exorcist,

1797
01:45:11,479 --> 01:45:13,800
Speaker 2: we should take a look at its sound design, which

1798
01:45:13,880 --> 01:45:14,479
Speaker 2: won the film.

1799
01:45:14,479 --> 01:45:18,120
Speaker 1: One of its odds goes I think one two freaking

1800
01:45:18,200 --> 01:45:21,760
Speaker 1: circumvented normal union rules by hiring the film sound team.

1801
01:45:21,960 --> 01:45:25,920
Speaker 1: Bob Fine Gonzala Gariva and Doc Siegel and Ken Norden

1802
01:45:26,040 --> 01:45:30,840
Speaker 1: and ron Nagel as separate contractors. He was not going

1803
01:45:30,920 --> 01:45:34,160
Speaker 1: to play by even the most basic levels of union

1804
01:45:34,240 --> 01:45:38,120
Speaker 1: rules for making a film. Okay. Ken Nordeen, who we

1805
01:45:38,160 --> 01:45:40,880
Speaker 1: mentioned earlier, was not credited in the film in a

1806
01:45:40,920 --> 01:45:41,719
Speaker 1: theme you should.

1807
01:45:41,479 --> 01:45:44,720
Speaker 2: Probably recognize by now, and sued Warner Brothers receiving a

1808
01:45:44,760 --> 01:45:47,160
Speaker 2: cash settlement in lieu of a credit. I've lost count

1809
01:45:47,200 --> 01:45:49,439
Speaker 2: of a number of people who weren't credited and had

1810
01:45:49,479 --> 01:45:54,000
Speaker 2: to settle for an undisclosed cash payout. Supervising sound editor

1811
01:45:54,040 --> 01:45:56,960
Speaker 2: Cecilia Hall said The Exorcist was one of the first

1812
01:45:57,000 --> 01:46:01,240
Speaker 2: films to understand the importance of affecting the audience psychologically.

1813
01:46:01,760 --> 01:46:04,280
Speaker 2: William Freakin said he wanted it to be too loud

1814
01:46:04,320 --> 01:46:06,519
Speaker 2: because he wanted the audience to be slightly on edge

1815
01:46:06,520 --> 01:46:08,920
Speaker 2: in the middle of the film, in the beginning of

1816
01:46:08,920 --> 01:46:11,599
Speaker 2: the film, and the end of the film, pretty much

1817
01:46:11,600 --> 01:46:14,960
Speaker 2: through the whole film volume aside. Ron Nagel used a

1818
01:46:15,040 --> 01:46:17,960
Speaker 2: number of unconventional methods to get the effects in the film.

1819
01:46:18,520 --> 01:46:21,080
Speaker 2: He recorded a bunch of bees he'd shaken up in

1820
01:46:21,120 --> 01:46:24,639
Speaker 2: a jar and the sound of his girlfriend's stomach after

1821
01:46:24,760 --> 01:46:29,200
Speaker 2: chugging a glass of water. The scratching sounds in the attic,

1822
01:46:29,360 --> 01:46:32,520
Speaker 2: heard several times throughout the film were a layered construction

1823
01:46:32,720 --> 01:46:36,600
Speaker 2: of quote guinea pigs running on a board covered with sandpaper,

1824
01:46:37,120 --> 01:46:40,680
Speaker 2: the scratching of fingernails, and the sound of a bandsaw

1825
01:46:40,720 --> 01:46:42,080
Speaker 2: as it flew through the air.

1826
01:46:42,880 --> 01:46:45,920
Speaker 1: Who thinks of this? I wonder how much of its

1827
01:46:45,960 --> 01:46:49,200
Speaker 1: trial and error? Yeah, versus like Wow? I mean that's

1828
01:46:49,200 --> 01:46:52,760
Speaker 1: like folly worked to the extreme. Love it. I love

1829
01:46:52,800 --> 01:46:55,880
Speaker 1: that stuff so much. Sounds such a joy to me,

1830
01:46:56,040 --> 01:46:58,040
Speaker 1: just because it's fun to imagine these guys just like

1831
01:46:58,080 --> 01:47:01,200
Speaker 1: on a set being like, yeah, turn that bands on

1832
01:47:01,320 --> 01:47:03,840
Speaker 1: and throw it through the air. Yeah, that's it. Have

1833
01:47:03,880 --> 01:47:06,800
Speaker 1: we got any guinea pigs? I got an idea we

1834
01:47:06,840 --> 01:47:13,719
Speaker 1: could take them back right their receipts. Gonzola Garriva created

1835
01:47:13,720 --> 01:47:15,760
Speaker 1: the sound that was made when Reagan's head did its

1836
01:47:15,760 --> 01:47:18,960
Speaker 1: three undred and sixty degree turn by taking his old,

1837
01:47:19,120 --> 01:47:23,160
Speaker 1: cracked leather wallet and twisting it back and forth against

1838
01:47:23,200 --> 01:47:27,640
Speaker 1: the microphone. We gotta splice that in Who Lifts and

1839
01:47:27,840 --> 01:47:31,040
Speaker 1: Rings with the Father? I'm the Holy Spirit.

1840
01:47:32,880 --> 01:47:37,120
Speaker 2: Davio, And as we alluded to earlier, there were actually

1841
01:47:37,160 --> 01:47:41,080
Speaker 2: two scrapped versions of the film's soundtrack. Freakan's first choice

1842
01:47:41,120 --> 01:47:44,320
Speaker 2: was Bernard Hermann, composer of Psycho and dozens of other

1843
01:47:44,479 --> 01:47:48,320
Speaker 2: iconic film tracks. Their initial meeting did not go well.

1844
01:47:48,880 --> 01:47:51,639
Speaker 2: To hear Freedkin tell it, he basically met someone who

1845
01:47:51,680 --> 01:47:54,120
Speaker 2: was as much of an abrasive egomaniac as he was.

1846
01:47:55,200 --> 01:47:57,160
Speaker 2: He showed Bernard Herman a cut of the film, and

1847
01:47:57,200 --> 01:47:59,760
Speaker 2: afterwards Hermann supposedly told him, I might be able to

1848
01:47:59,800 --> 01:48:01,680
Speaker 2: help you with this piece of but you have to

1849
01:48:01,760 --> 01:48:03,360
Speaker 2: leave it with me and I'll see if I can

1850
01:48:03,400 --> 01:48:08,800
Speaker 2: come up with something. Herman compounded this, Phil Paul if

1851
01:48:08,840 --> 01:48:11,799
Speaker 2: you will, by telling Freakin that the film's opening scene

1852
01:48:11,840 --> 01:48:14,519
Speaker 2: in Iraq needed to be cut, and then he wanted

1853
01:48:14,560 --> 01:48:17,080
Speaker 2: to score the film with a church organ, which Freaking

1854
01:48:17,200 --> 01:48:19,320
Speaker 2: rightly felt was a little on the nose.

1855
01:48:19,960 --> 01:48:22,439
Speaker 1: So Bernard Herman was out.

1856
01:48:22,040 --> 01:48:24,360
Speaker 2: For what it's worth. Herman later said that Freakin wanted

1857
01:48:24,479 --> 01:48:27,439
Speaker 2: equal billing with him for the score. Oh, I can

1858
01:48:27,479 --> 01:48:31,160
Speaker 2: see a film composer not really wanting to share that

1859
01:48:31,240 --> 01:48:32,240
Speaker 2: with the film's director.

1860
01:48:33,160 --> 01:48:38,719
Speaker 1: Next, Leialo Schiffrin, legendary film and TV composer, probably best

1861
01:48:38,760 --> 01:48:41,840
Speaker 1: known for the Mission Impossible theme any other big ones

1862
01:48:41,880 --> 01:48:46,160
Speaker 1: I'm missing, h I think of it his bullet basically

1863
01:48:46,200 --> 01:48:49,000
Speaker 1: any like seventies and End of the Dragon like any

1864
01:48:49,160 --> 01:48:54,280
Speaker 1: seventies like Funk influence score was probably Lalo or you

1865
01:48:54,320 --> 01:48:56,160
Speaker 1: know Isaac Case. Oh yeah.

1866
01:48:56,560 --> 01:48:59,880
Speaker 2: Leilo Schiffrin completed a six minute score with an eighty

1867
01:49:00,080 --> 01:49:04,120
Speaker 2: He's ensemble, and we already mentioned how that went. Freaking

1868
01:49:04,360 --> 01:49:08,639
Speaker 2: tossed the tape into what an alleyway behind his editing building,

1869
01:49:08,760 --> 01:49:10,880
Speaker 2: parking lot, parking lot, parking lot.

1870
01:49:11,040 --> 01:49:12,480
Speaker 1: In Marimbo Music.

1871
01:49:15,680 --> 01:49:18,000
Speaker 2: Ay two thousand and five interview, Lailo Schiffrin said of

1872
01:49:18,040 --> 01:49:21,360
Speaker 2: the episode, in the past, we had an incident caused

1873
01:49:21,400 --> 01:49:25,000
Speaker 2: by other reasons, and I think Freaking wanted vengeance, which

1874
01:49:25,040 --> 01:49:28,040
Speaker 2: I love. Yeah, they had some kind of past predating.

1875
01:49:27,600 --> 01:49:30,040
Speaker 1: What maybe it was French connection.

1876
01:49:30,400 --> 01:49:35,120
Speaker 2: Oh maybe, so freaking as he told the Castle Frankenstein magazine,

1877
01:49:35,120 --> 01:49:38,760
Speaker 2: which you mentioned earlier, decided quote, rather than get bad

1878
01:49:38,880 --> 01:49:42,760
Speaker 2: imitation Stravinsky, I might as well have the real thing.

1879
01:49:43,280 --> 01:49:46,040
Speaker 1: Ouch. Yeah, it's like it sounds like a huge diss

1880
01:49:46,040 --> 01:49:50,839
Speaker 1: on Herman more than more than Schiffrin. So freaking descended

1881
01:49:50,880 --> 01:49:54,720
Speaker 1: on the music library at warners Uh and actually assembled

1882
01:49:54,880 --> 01:49:59,000
Speaker 1: an array of composers that are considered like the twentieth

1883
01:49:59,040 --> 01:50:06,080
Speaker 1: century cannon bedrock of like contemporary classical Christoph Penderewski in particular,

1884
01:50:06,160 --> 01:50:11,879
Speaker 1: has become a huge totem in horror movies. Anton Veburn

1885
01:50:12,120 --> 01:50:15,960
Speaker 1: is one of the Orvayburn was one of the pioneers

1886
01:50:15,960 --> 01:50:21,120
Speaker 1: of twelve tone serialism under Arnold Scherenberg and another composer

1887
01:50:21,200 --> 01:50:25,040
Speaker 1: named Hens Vanna Hens. Since I just wanted to mention

1888
01:50:25,120 --> 01:50:29,880
Speaker 1: because of his name and your beloved Jack Nietzsche, Yeah,

1889
01:50:29,920 --> 01:50:33,839
Speaker 1: who worked with Neil Young and the rest Phil Spector.

1890
01:50:34,120 --> 01:50:38,760
Speaker 1: It's something like just ambient piano passages that underscore transitions.

1891
01:50:39,520 --> 01:50:42,200
Speaker 1: And Freakin wrote in his Ao biography that Nietzsche arrived

1892
01:50:42,640 --> 01:50:47,800
Speaker 1: at one particularly cruel method to get a particular sound.

1893
01:50:48,400 --> 01:50:52,439
Speaker 1: During our recording session, Nietzsche's girlfriend was sleeping face down

1894
01:50:52,479 --> 01:50:55,160
Speaker 1: on a couch. Jack placed a microphone on the floor

1895
01:50:55,200 --> 01:50:57,920
Speaker 1: next to her and ran across the studio and jumped

1896
01:50:57,960 --> 01:51:01,200
Speaker 1: on her back, landing with both knees. Her shock reaction

1897
01:51:01,439 --> 01:51:03,360
Speaker 1: is the sound we used when Reagan throws up on

1898
01:51:03,439 --> 01:51:11,519
Speaker 1: Father Karras what is it? Perhaps tickled by this display

1899
01:51:11,560 --> 01:51:14,920
Speaker 1: of man's on fathimable cruelty, freaking would work with Nietzsche

1900
01:51:14,960 --> 01:51:18,120
Speaker 1: again on cruising. How many spines were ruined in this

1901
01:51:18,320 --> 01:51:25,439
Speaker 1: I know, right, like sins Sins he got Jack Niche's girlfriend. Yeah.

1902
01:51:25,479 --> 01:51:28,840
Speaker 1: And Pendershki in particular has become this big touchstone and

1903
01:51:28,880 --> 01:51:31,880
Speaker 1: whoror there's like one of his works in particular has

1904
01:51:31,920 --> 01:51:35,920
Speaker 1: been reused, not just in this, but Stanley Kubrick also

1905
01:51:36,040 --> 01:51:37,879
Speaker 1: used a segment of the same work in The Shining.

1906
01:51:38,240 --> 01:51:42,680
Speaker 1: David Lynch has used Penderreshki in four separate projects. And

1907
01:51:42,720 --> 01:51:45,960
Speaker 1: despite all of this, there were only seventeen minutes of

1908
01:51:46,080 --> 01:51:52,120
Speaker 1: music in this two hour film, including Yes, Tubular Bells,

1909
01:51:58,479 --> 01:52:00,760
Speaker 1: do your freaking tell it. I felt the need for

1910
01:52:00,840 --> 01:52:03,840
Speaker 1: something that was akin to Brahms's Lullaby, a kind of

1911
01:52:03,960 --> 01:52:06,519
Speaker 1: childhood film. I went to see the head of Warner

1912
01:52:06,520 --> 01:52:07,760
Speaker 1: at the time, and he didn't know what the hell

1913
01:52:07,800 --> 01:52:09,880
Speaker 1: I was talking about, so he said, go to that

1914
01:52:09,960 --> 01:52:12,519
Speaker 1: room over there, the music library. I went through the

1915
01:52:12,560 --> 01:52:15,120
Speaker 1: stack until I came to this thing called Tubular Bells

1916
01:52:15,160 --> 01:52:17,920
Speaker 1: by a guy named Mike Oldfield, and Warner had no

1917
01:52:18,000 --> 01:52:20,920
Speaker 1: interest in it, was not going to release it. It's

1918
01:52:20,960 --> 01:52:24,240
Speaker 1: a narration record because right after I played Tubular Bells,

1919
01:52:24,280 --> 01:52:27,680
Speaker 1: Mike Oldfield starts narrating and talking about tubular bells, what

1920
01:52:27,720 --> 01:52:30,200
Speaker 1: they are and how they sound. But I listened to

1921
01:52:30,240 --> 01:52:32,360
Speaker 1: that refrain and it hooked me. And when they won

1922
01:52:32,400 --> 01:52:35,840
Speaker 1: the rights to it, that's not that's not correct, but

1923
01:52:36,080 --> 01:52:39,240
Speaker 1: we'll address that in a moment. Tubular Bells, though, is

1924
01:52:39,600 --> 01:52:43,479
Speaker 1: a hilarious and ponderous piece of prog rock cheese. The

1925
01:52:43,640 --> 01:52:47,040
Speaker 1: entire album is forty nine minutes long and contains two tracks.

1926
01:52:47,760 --> 01:52:50,559
Speaker 1: Oldfield was just nineteen when he recorded it and plays

1927
01:52:50,640 --> 01:52:53,920
Speaker 1: most of the instruments on it, totally two hundred and

1928
01:52:53,960 --> 01:52:59,840
Speaker 1: seventy four overdubs. Hilariously. Despite the album credits for things

1929
01:52:59,880 --> 01:53:05,160
Speaker 1: like speed guitars, fuzz guitars, and guitars sounding like bagpipes,

1930
01:53:05,439 --> 01:53:08,000
Speaker 1: there is only one guitar on the record, a telecaster

1931
01:53:08,200 --> 01:53:10,719
Speaker 1: that had previously belonged to Mark Bolan of t Rex.

1932
01:53:11,240 --> 01:53:13,040
Speaker 1: Mike Oldfield was like a guy in the kind of

1933
01:53:13,120 --> 01:53:16,200
Speaker 1: London prog rock scene in the early seventies he had

1934
01:53:16,240 --> 01:53:19,439
Speaker 1: played with. I don't know one of those jerk offs.

1935
01:53:20,280 --> 01:53:23,680
Speaker 1: It was just like a studio guy. My favorite thing

1936
01:53:23,720 --> 01:53:25,639
Speaker 1: from the liner notes is there's a credit for something

1937
01:53:25,680 --> 01:53:31,320
Speaker 1: called Glorfindelle guitar Golrfandelle is yes, the name of a

1938
01:53:31,360 --> 01:53:34,160
Speaker 1: lord of the rings elf and was the nickname given

1939
01:53:34,200 --> 01:53:41,360
Speaker 1: to a custom fuzzbox that was given to Mike Oldfield.

1940
01:53:41,400 --> 01:53:44,800
Speaker 1: The aforementioned narration about the record on the record is

1941
01:53:45,120 --> 01:53:50,719
Speaker 1: Vivian Stanshall, formerly of the comedic rock group Bonzo Dog

1942
01:53:50,840 --> 01:53:51,799
Speaker 1: Doo Dah Band.

1943
01:53:52,120 --> 01:53:54,280
Speaker 2: Fans of the Beatles who have seen The Magical Mystery

1944
01:53:54,360 --> 01:53:57,040
Speaker 2: Tour will know the bonzol Dog Douda band for the

1945
01:53:57,120 --> 01:54:01,040
Speaker 2: strip club scene in that film. He was also a

1946
01:54:01,040 --> 01:54:02,360
Speaker 2: close friend of Keith Moon too.

1947
01:54:02,439 --> 01:54:05,160
Speaker 1: I'm literally never going to listen to a single recorded

1948
01:54:05,200 --> 01:54:07,760
Speaker 1: work of bat Band because I hate that name so much.

1949
01:54:08,080 --> 01:54:11,400
Speaker 1: It pisses me off to no end. Oldfield told The

1950
01:54:11,479 --> 01:54:15,120
Speaker 1: Quietest at a twenty eleven interview. I didn't design tubula

1951
01:54:15,120 --> 01:54:17,760
Speaker 1: Bells as a piece of scary movie music, although I

1952
01:54:17,840 --> 01:54:20,879
Speaker 1: was pretty paranoid at the time. I was only nineteen

1953
01:54:21,160 --> 01:54:24,400
Speaker 1: and I had a lot of psychological problems and phobias.

1954
01:54:25,760 --> 01:54:28,320
Speaker 1: The pieces linkage with the Exorcist, though it doesn't bother him.

1955
01:54:28,560 --> 01:54:32,360
Speaker 1: He added, I'm quite lucky because eventually, as performance royalties

1956
01:54:32,400 --> 01:54:35,200
Speaker 1: come in, the payment after Halloween is always quite comfortable

1957
01:54:35,520 --> 01:54:38,200
Speaker 1: and having that for something I designed forty years ago

1958
01:54:38,280 --> 01:54:40,400
Speaker 1: in a little tiny room and a horrible part of

1959
01:54:40,440 --> 01:54:44,839
Speaker 1: London is quite nice. Tubula Bells is also quite important

1960
01:54:44,840 --> 01:54:48,720
Speaker 1: in the legacy of just British recorded music period because

1961
01:54:48,880 --> 01:54:52,879
Speaker 1: Richard Branson and his business partner Simon Draper heard demos

1962
01:54:52,880 --> 01:54:56,160
Speaker 1: of Oldfield's work and offered to pay for professional recording.

1963
01:54:56,680 --> 01:54:59,920
Speaker 1: After shopping the finished product around unsuccessfully, the pair deci

1964
01:55:00,200 --> 01:55:03,600
Speaker 1: to start their own label, Virgin Records, to release the album,

1965
01:55:04,000 --> 01:55:06,240
Speaker 1: released in the UK in May of nineteen seventy three

1966
01:55:06,280 --> 01:55:09,040
Speaker 1: and in North America in October nineteen seventy three. Sales

1967
01:55:09,080 --> 01:55:12,920
Speaker 1: were initially slow, but that situation changed following the release

1968
01:55:12,960 --> 01:55:15,760
Speaker 1: of The Exorcist in December nineteen seventy three. The album

1969
01:55:15,760 --> 01:55:20,000
Speaker 1: has gone on to sell fifteen million copies worldwide. Basically

1970
01:55:20,120 --> 01:55:24,040
Speaker 1: launching Virgin Records and foisting Richard Branson on us all

1971
01:55:24,600 --> 01:55:28,320
Speaker 1: the pair's relationship did deteriorate, though, I think Branson was

1972
01:55:28,320 --> 01:55:30,320
Speaker 1: so desperate for a follow up at one point. This

1973
01:55:30,360 --> 01:55:33,320
Speaker 1: is from an anecdote from the book The Show That

1974
01:55:33,440 --> 01:55:36,160
Speaker 1: Never Ends, which is a really great piece of music

1975
01:55:36,160 --> 01:55:40,680
Speaker 1: writing about the prog rock era, Branson drove I think

1976
01:55:40,840 --> 01:55:44,800
Speaker 1: a Rolls Royce Phantom or like one of these obscenely

1977
01:55:44,880 --> 01:55:48,640
Speaker 1: rich guy cars, drove it to Mike Oldfield's house and

1978
01:55:48,760 --> 01:55:50,760
Speaker 1: was like, do you have anything to follow up tubular bells.

1979
01:55:51,560 --> 01:55:55,080
Speaker 1: I will leave this car here as an advance on

1980
01:55:55,120 --> 01:55:57,720
Speaker 1: a down payment and take a cab back to London.

1981
01:56:00,040 --> 01:56:02,840
Speaker 1: And things got so bad that by nineteen ninety, Oldfield

1982
01:56:02,920 --> 01:56:06,240
Speaker 1: inserted a message in Morse code in his album Amarok

1983
01:56:06,800 --> 01:56:10,400
Speaker 1: that read off RB but at least of a twenty

1984
01:56:10,400 --> 01:56:13,120
Speaker 1: four At least as of a twenty fourteen interview with

1985
01:56:13,240 --> 01:56:15,400
Speaker 1: I Think the Guardian, he said he still got to

1986
01:56:15,440 --> 01:56:22,320
Speaker 1: fly first class on Virgin Airlines for free. In Easy

1987
01:56:22,360 --> 01:56:25,160
Speaker 1: Riders Raging Bulls, It's recounted that after a screening of

1988
01:56:25,200 --> 01:56:29,280
Speaker 1: the completed film, Warner's exec John Cally said, what did

1989
01:56:29,280 --> 01:56:33,200
Speaker 1: we just see? At the film's first sneak preview, cast

1990
01:56:33,240 --> 01:56:35,800
Speaker 1: and crew were stunned to find viewers screaming and running

1991
01:56:35,840 --> 01:56:39,200
Speaker 1: out of the theater. The production designer Bill Malley said,

1992
01:56:39,320 --> 01:56:42,920
Speaker 1: when it was over, nobody applauded. Everybody just sat there.

1993
01:56:43,280 --> 01:56:46,120
Speaker 1: They still didn't know what they had seen. Shockingly, though,

1994
01:56:46,120 --> 01:56:49,440
Speaker 1: when it was submitted to the ratings board, despite the

1995
01:56:49,440 --> 01:56:52,520
Speaker 1: then and now graphic violence, the film got an R

1996
01:56:52,680 --> 01:56:55,400
Speaker 1: rating instead of an X, largely due to the head

1997
01:56:55,440 --> 01:56:58,200
Speaker 1: of the board of the time, doctor Aaron Stern, who

1998
01:56:58,240 --> 01:57:01,160
Speaker 1: supposedly called freakin and said the film should be quote

1999
01:57:01,160 --> 01:57:06,200
Speaker 1: widely seen. However, his successor at the rating sport, Richard Hefner, differed,

2000
01:57:06,320 --> 01:57:09,920
Speaker 1: saying how could anything be worse than this, and got

2001
01:57:09,920 --> 01:57:14,320
Speaker 1: an R. Warner Brothers was understandably skittish about the film

2002
01:57:14,360 --> 01:57:18,560
Speaker 1: and offered no test screenings, releasing it at only thirty

2003
01:57:18,600 --> 01:57:22,880
Speaker 1: screens across twenty four theaters. The film's word abouth popularity

2004
01:57:22,960 --> 01:57:25,920
Speaker 1: quickly forced them to expand, and without getting into what

2005
01:57:26,000 --> 01:57:29,880
Speaker 1: I consider the tedious details of film distribution, it should

2006
01:57:29,920 --> 01:57:33,120
Speaker 1: be noted that, with its various releases, The Exorcist has

2007
01:57:33,200 --> 01:57:37,760
Speaker 1: grossed and adjusted eight and a half billion dollars worldwide.

2008
01:57:38,560 --> 01:57:41,960
Speaker 1: It remains Warner brothers second highest grossing movie of all time,

2009
01:57:42,640 --> 01:57:46,920
Speaker 1: behind Check's notes Barbie I love that. That's their one

2010
01:57:47,040 --> 01:57:51,840
Speaker 1: two punch. Yeah, they should do double features. Man, I'd

2011
01:57:51,920 --> 01:57:55,640
Speaker 1: see barber Cist. That's better than Barbieheim.

2012
01:57:55,960 --> 01:57:56,280
Speaker 3: So be.

2013
01:57:57,880 --> 01:58:02,640
Speaker 1: Barber Cist, barbar Cist. This was despite various bands against

2014
01:58:02,680 --> 01:58:09,800
Speaker 1: the film, Your beloved Boston and Hattiesburg Mississippi were kindred

2015
01:58:09,880 --> 01:58:13,440
Speaker 1: spirits in attempting to prevent local showings, with police arresting

2016
01:58:13,480 --> 01:58:16,839
Speaker 1: the projectionists and manager of the theater after the film's

2017
01:58:16,840 --> 01:58:20,160
Speaker 1: first Hattiesburg showing and finding them Wow. The film was

2018
01:58:20,200 --> 01:58:22,520
Speaker 1: also banned in parts of Wales, and when it was

2019
01:58:22,560 --> 01:58:25,640
Speaker 1: resubmitted for a British home release after the landmark British

2020
01:58:25,720 --> 01:58:28,680
Speaker 1: Video Recordings Actor of nineteen eighty four, which led to

2021
01:58:28,680 --> 01:58:31,919
Speaker 1: the so called video Nasties era, the film was banned

2022
01:58:32,120 --> 01:58:35,760
Speaker 1: entirely and it was unavailable legally for ten years. Yeah,

2023
01:58:35,800 --> 01:58:37,840
Speaker 1: it was up there with like a clockwork orange and

2024
01:58:37,880 --> 01:58:43,120
Speaker 1: like also really awful, like street trash, all the faces

2025
01:58:43,160 --> 01:58:47,600
Speaker 1: of death, like all the really up exploitation movies. I

2026
01:58:47,640 --> 01:58:49,560
Speaker 1: guess there were some towns in the UK where it

2027
01:58:49,600 --> 01:58:53,000
Speaker 1: was allowed to be screened, giving rise to Exorcist bus

2028
01:58:53,080 --> 01:58:57,080
Speaker 1: trips organized by local travel companies. I just cannot believe

2029
01:58:57,120 --> 01:58:59,040
Speaker 1: that this film had the legs that it had, Like

2030
01:58:59,080 --> 01:59:03,080
Speaker 1: you would think after seeing it for the shock value,

2031
01:59:03,240 --> 01:59:07,240
Speaker 1: it might not last, but its a testament to its

2032
01:59:07,320 --> 01:59:10,800
Speaker 1: quality that it did because people were showing up repeatedly.

2033
01:59:12,840 --> 01:59:14,840
Speaker 1: And another half of the film's legacies, of course, the

2034
01:59:14,880 --> 01:59:20,960
Speaker 1: madness that happened when theaters started screening it widely, and

2035
01:59:21,160 --> 01:59:25,560
Speaker 1: it must be said that basically this forced the studio

2036
01:59:25,680 --> 01:59:30,160
Speaker 1: to put it into wide distribution. Thirty theaters is nothing,

2037
01:59:30,440 --> 01:59:33,560
Speaker 1: you know. And once they saw how theaters were being

2038
01:59:33,640 --> 01:59:35,840
Speaker 1: shut down by the demand for this film, they pushed

2039
01:59:35,840 --> 01:59:38,879
Speaker 1: it wide. But people were standing at these enormous lines

2040
01:59:39,000 --> 01:59:41,920
Speaker 1: to see it. They would light bonfires on the street

2041
01:59:42,000 --> 01:59:44,600
Speaker 1: to keep warm while they waited in line and try

2042
01:59:44,640 --> 01:59:48,400
Speaker 1: and bribe their way upside. Once inside, they would faint

2043
01:59:49,040 --> 01:59:52,720
Speaker 1: run out of the theater to vomit. One headline from

2044
01:59:53,200 --> 01:59:56,120
Speaker 1: February nineteen seventy fourth set a viewer had fainted, hit

2045
01:59:56,160 --> 01:59:58,839
Speaker 1: the arm rest of his seat and broken three ribs.

2046
01:59:59,640 --> 02:00:02,320
Speaker 1: New York Times headline that year said a security guard

2047
02:00:02,320 --> 02:00:05,880
Speaker 1: had told a reporter that several people suffered heart attacks,

2048
02:00:06,200 --> 02:00:10,919
Speaker 1: one woman had a miscarriage. One viewer actually sued warners

2049
02:00:11,440 --> 02:00:16,560
Speaker 1: after fainting and breaking their jaw. Studio settled out of court.

2050
02:00:17,080 --> 02:00:20,480
Speaker 1: Theaters in Toronto reported that they had plumbers on standby

2051
02:00:20,880 --> 02:00:24,760
Speaker 1: for vomit clogged toilets and sinks, as well as ambulances

2052
02:00:24,800 --> 02:00:30,760
Speaker 1: outside the theater. Meanwhile, perishes across the country reported increased

2053
02:00:30,760 --> 02:00:35,840
Speaker 1: calls from congregants requesting exorcisms, or simply just people flocking

2054
02:00:35,920 --> 02:00:39,400
Speaker 1: back to the church in droves after being scared stiff

2055
02:00:39,520 --> 02:00:41,840
Speaker 1: by the film. Scared straight, I guess if you will,

2056
02:00:41,880 --> 02:00:45,800
Speaker 1: in the parlance of modern times. My personal favorite clipping

2057
02:00:45,840 --> 02:00:47,720
Speaker 1: from this era that I alluded to earlier was a

2058
02:00:47,760 --> 02:00:51,440
Speaker 1: theater manager in Chicago met his wife when she fainted

2059
02:00:51,520 --> 02:00:54,880
Speaker 1: into his arms during a screening of the Exorcist, and

2060
02:00:54,960 --> 02:00:59,520
Speaker 1: they were married two months later. That's just too precious

2061
02:00:59,520 --> 02:01:02,360
Speaker 1: for words. Yes, well, this isn't.

2062
02:01:03,240 --> 02:01:07,160
Speaker 2: An early version of the film's poster featured Reagan's hands

2063
02:01:07,160 --> 02:01:12,320
Speaker 2: with the bloody crucifix with the tagline God Help this girl.

2064
02:01:13,400 --> 02:01:16,560
Speaker 2: The poster was rejected by William Friedkin, supposedly because it

2065
02:01:16,600 --> 02:01:19,760
Speaker 2: included the word God, which he thought should never be

2066
02:01:19,880 --> 02:01:21,080
Speaker 2: used in ad copy.

2067
02:01:21,240 --> 02:01:25,360
Speaker 1: How cute of him, I know, not the bloody crucifix,

2068
02:01:25,560 --> 02:01:28,839
Speaker 1: but the word God was what bothered him. Warner's campaigned

2069
02:01:28,840 --> 02:01:31,280
Speaker 1: heavily for the film at the Academy Awards, and we're

2070
02:01:31,280 --> 02:01:35,360
Speaker 1: rewarded with nominations for Best Picture, Director, Actress, Supporting Actor,

2071
02:01:35,400 --> 02:01:40,680
Speaker 1: Supporting Actress, Adapted Screenplay, art, direction, set decoration, cinematography, editing,

2072
02:01:40,760 --> 02:01:43,160
Speaker 1: and sound. It was the first horror film to be

2073
02:01:43,200 --> 02:01:45,880
Speaker 1: nominated for Best Picture, though had ultimately only one for

2074
02:01:45,960 --> 02:01:48,560
Speaker 1: Adapted Screenplay and Sound. George Q.

2075
02:01:48,760 --> 02:01:52,440
Speaker 2: Koor, who'd won a director for My Fair Lady as

2076
02:01:52,480 --> 02:01:55,600
Speaker 2: well as directed in Philadelphia's Story, the Judy Garland version

2077
02:01:55,640 --> 02:01:58,000
Speaker 2: of A Star Is Born, and a bunch of Katherine Hepburn,

2078
02:01:58,040 --> 02:02:01,640
Speaker 2: Spencer Tracy Joints threatened to resigned from the Academy of

2079
02:02:01,720 --> 02:02:04,400
Speaker 2: The Exorcist won Best Picture, which I love.

2080
02:02:04,560 --> 02:02:06,400
Speaker 1: Can't Take the Heat, Get Out of the Kitchen, Bitch.

2081
02:02:07,200 --> 02:02:11,040
Speaker 1: The film had less positive impacts elsewhere. Bladdy sued Warners

2082
02:02:11,040 --> 02:02:14,040
Speaker 1: and Freaking over credits and supposedly being barred from production.

2083
02:02:14,120 --> 02:02:17,000
Speaker 1: At one point, Bladdy's name was added, and he eventually

2084
02:02:17,080 --> 02:02:19,400
Speaker 1: dropped the suit, though he and Freaking fell out and

2085
02:02:19,440 --> 02:02:23,680
Speaker 1: didn't talk for years afterwards, and I think Freaking retaliated

2086
02:02:23,720 --> 02:02:25,920
Speaker 1: by saying, you were not banned from production, you were

2087
02:02:25,920 --> 02:02:30,200
Speaker 1: banned from post production. Linda Blair. Meanwhile, I was given

2088
02:02:30,200 --> 02:02:33,920
Speaker 1: a security detail for months after the film by the

2089
02:02:33,960 --> 02:02:37,520
Speaker 1: studio after receiving death threats. A cop was stationed at

2090
02:02:37,560 --> 02:02:40,440
Speaker 1: her home when the movie came out. The amount of

2091
02:02:40,440 --> 02:02:42,600
Speaker 1: pressure that came down on me wasn't anything I was

2092
02:02:42,640 --> 02:02:46,800
Speaker 1: prepared for, she told The Independent this year, especially all

2093
02:02:46,800 --> 02:02:48,840
Speaker 1: the pressure the press put on me. They thought I

2094
02:02:48,880 --> 02:02:51,920
Speaker 1: had all the answers about faith and Catholicism. It was

2095
02:02:51,960 --> 02:02:56,400
Speaker 1: probably the most awful thing you could imagine. Unsurprisingly, Blair spiraled.

2096
02:02:56,720 --> 02:02:58,920
Speaker 1: In nineteen seventy seven, she was part of a massive

2097
02:02:59,000 --> 02:03:02,919
Speaker 1: drugsting that took targeted thirty one people for interstate cocaine trafficking.

2098
02:03:04,160 --> 02:03:07,280
Speaker 1: She did appear in the god Awful aforementioned sequel to

2099
02:03:07,320 --> 02:03:13,280
Speaker 1: The Exorcist, The Exorcist Heretic, alongside Richard Burton, Louise Fletcher,

2100
02:03:13,680 --> 02:03:17,000
Speaker 1: and James Earl Jones, but she wasn't really able to

2101
02:03:17,040 --> 02:03:21,160
Speaker 1: sustain a career on the order of The Exorcist, though

2102
02:03:21,200 --> 02:03:24,880
Speaker 1: she did. Pat should date an impressive number of musicians,

2103
02:03:25,520 --> 02:03:29,000
Speaker 1: including Rick Springfield, who she meant when she was fifteen

2104
02:03:29,040 --> 02:03:30,720
Speaker 1: and he was twenty five, which.

2105
02:03:30,640 --> 02:03:33,680
Speaker 2: Gross didn't meet. I believe they were dating when she

2106
02:03:33,760 --> 02:03:38,600
Speaker 2: was fifteen and he was twenty five, reportedly allegedly legal reasons.

2107
02:03:39,080 --> 02:03:43,120
Speaker 1: Yeah. She also dated Deep Purple bassist Glenn Hughes, Neil

2108
02:03:43,360 --> 02:03:48,000
Speaker 1: Spider Giraldo, the future husband of Pat Benattar and her

2109
02:03:48,040 --> 02:03:52,880
Speaker 1: guitarist Sticks guitarist Tommy Shaw, the lead singer of Minor

2110
02:03:52,960 --> 02:03:58,280
Speaker 1: League's classic rock dorks Black Oak, Arkansas. And lastly, and

2111
02:03:58,320 --> 02:04:04,200
Speaker 1: most impressively, Rick James for two years, who wrote the

2112
02:04:04,240 --> 02:04:07,240
Speaker 1: song cold Blooded about her. Didn't think that was a

2113
02:04:07,240 --> 02:04:13,080
Speaker 1: connection we'd be making this episode. Sadly, Jason Miller struggled

2114
02:04:13,120 --> 02:04:16,480
Speaker 1: with alcoholism for years. He did reprise his role as

2115
02:04:16,640 --> 02:04:20,160
Speaker 1: Father Carris in the deeply underrated third Exorcist movie that

2116
02:04:20,240 --> 02:04:23,760
Speaker 1: I Love has become a big cult classic one. Did

2117
02:04:23,760 --> 02:04:27,880
Speaker 1: that come out ninety one? But he was so late, Yeah,

2118
02:04:27,920 --> 02:04:31,600
Speaker 1: but he was. So it's a great film. It has

2119
02:04:33,280 --> 02:04:36,960
Speaker 1: a deeply drunk and belligerent George C. Scott in it

2120
02:04:37,120 --> 02:04:41,080
Speaker 1: as Father Kinderman. And it's got all these because Bloody

2121
02:04:41,160 --> 02:04:43,360
Speaker 1: directed it and from his novel, So it's got all

2122
02:04:43,360 --> 02:04:47,000
Speaker 1: these really rightly touches, just these astounding stretches of like

2123
02:04:47,240 --> 02:04:50,640
Speaker 1: great dialogue. It's not particularly graphic. It has a very

2124
02:04:50,680 --> 02:04:56,040
Speaker 1: bizarre scene in which Heaven is depicted as an all white,

2125
02:04:57,280 --> 02:05:01,040
Speaker 1: set dressed version of Grand Central, in which Samuel L. Jackson,

2126
02:05:01,160 --> 02:05:07,680
Speaker 1: Patrick Ewing, and Fabio all have cameos. But sadly, Jason

2127
02:05:07,720 --> 02:05:10,920
Speaker 1: Miller continued to struggle with alcoholism his whole life, and

2128
02:05:10,960 --> 02:05:12,800
Speaker 1: he was in such bad shape by the time this

2129
02:05:12,880 --> 02:05:16,160
Speaker 1: film came out that he basically shoots to what amount

2130
02:05:16,240 --> 02:05:20,080
Speaker 1: as cameos and friggin' Brad do Reef, the voice of

2131
02:05:20,240 --> 02:05:23,880
Speaker 1: Chucky is in this film doing the load work for

2132
02:05:23,920 --> 02:05:27,720
Speaker 1: that character, and he is tremendous. He is so scary.

2133
02:05:28,560 --> 02:05:32,000
Speaker 1: Great film. Everyone goes see The Exorcist three or screen it.

2134
02:05:32,920 --> 02:05:35,000
Speaker 1: They just took all the shit off screening, by the way,

2135
02:05:35,040 --> 02:05:36,920
Speaker 1: which pisses me off to no end. It was all

2136
02:05:36,960 --> 02:05:39,600
Speaker 1: on Max for a few weeks and you could see

2137
02:05:39,640 --> 02:05:42,480
Speaker 1: all of them, and they just took it off, So

2138
02:05:42,560 --> 02:05:46,320
Speaker 1: now you have to rent it. So yeah. Miller sadly

2139
02:05:46,400 --> 02:05:49,400
Speaker 1: died at sixty two of a heart attack, which related

2140
02:05:49,440 --> 02:05:53,480
Speaker 1: to his lifelong alcoholism, in his hometown of Scranton, Pennsylvania,

2141
02:05:53,600 --> 02:05:58,160
Speaker 1: where he had retired to her quieter life as director

2142
02:05:58,280 --> 02:06:01,120
Speaker 1: of a local theater. X months to Dow and Ellen.

2143
02:06:01,160 --> 02:06:05,880
Speaker 1: Burston obviously continued their distinguished careers. Burston won her Oscar

2144
02:06:05,960 --> 02:06:08,880
Speaker 1: for Alice doesn't live here anymore the year after The Exorcist.

2145
02:06:09,960 --> 02:06:14,240
Speaker 1: She also absolutely walks away with Requiem for a Dream.

2146
02:06:15,920 --> 02:06:19,320
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that scene in which she delivers the monologue

2147
02:06:19,360 --> 02:06:23,840
Speaker 1: about wanting to be on the TV show is devastating,

2148
02:06:24,040 --> 02:06:26,720
Speaker 1: and not just to me. You can notice in that

2149
02:06:27,000 --> 02:06:29,839
Speaker 1: scene where she delivers that monologue that the camera drifts

2150
02:06:29,880 --> 02:06:31,880
Speaker 1: slightly off center and goes a little bit out of

2151
02:06:31,920 --> 02:06:35,480
Speaker 1: focus before correcting. That is because she caused the cameraman

2152
02:06:35,600 --> 02:06:41,320
Speaker 1: to cry. She also reprised her role as Chris McNeil

2153
02:06:41,520 --> 02:06:46,400
Speaker 1: in the absolutely piss poor Exorcist sequel that came out

2154
02:06:46,440 --> 02:06:51,080
Speaker 1: this year. David Gordon Green now has done damage to

2155
02:06:51,200 --> 02:06:54,480
Speaker 1: two of my favorite horror movies of all time, with

2156
02:06:54,720 --> 02:06:58,640
Speaker 1: The Halloween and this one. It is the official position

2157
02:06:58,760 --> 02:07:01,560
Speaker 1: of this show. I speak for both of us when

2158
02:07:01,640 --> 02:07:04,480
Speaker 1: I say, don't let that man near anything else. Give

2159
02:07:04,560 --> 02:07:11,840
Speaker 1: him puppet master next, or I don't know, something far

2160
02:07:12,040 --> 02:07:15,520
Speaker 1: worse than this, stop giving him prestige or anyway. Ellen

2161
02:07:15,600 --> 02:07:19,880
Speaker 1: Burston famously this year made hilarious interviews in which she

2162
02:07:19,960 --> 02:07:22,480
Speaker 1: talked about the Lanths that they that Gordon Green and

2163
02:07:23,120 --> 02:07:26,200
Speaker 1: David Gordon Green and Blumhouse went to the Warner Brothers.

2164
02:07:27,120 --> 02:07:31,760
Speaker 1: Blumhouse paid four hundred million something like that for the

2165
02:07:31,920 --> 02:07:34,720
Speaker 1: rights to The Exorcist. By the way, and this first

2166
02:07:34,800 --> 02:07:38,680
Speaker 1: film I think did maybe one hundred two hundred. It

2167
02:07:38,800 --> 02:07:43,000
Speaker 1: did not underperformed, and they supposedly have two more coming

2168
02:07:43,040 --> 02:07:46,440
Speaker 1: out because they were like, give Gordon Green another trilogy

2169
02:07:47,000 --> 02:07:51,280
Speaker 1: to really get his creative vision for this out there. Anyway,

2170
02:07:51,520 --> 02:07:53,760
Speaker 1: Ellen Burston was like, no, I won't do it, No,

2171
02:07:54,000 --> 02:07:56,240
Speaker 1: I won't do it. Then they came back and she

2172
02:07:56,400 --> 02:07:58,960
Speaker 1: was like, double what you were offering, which was already

2173
02:07:59,040 --> 02:08:01,960
Speaker 1: in her words, seen lee high amount of money. And

2174
02:08:02,120 --> 02:08:05,480
Speaker 1: then she turned around and donated it as an endowment

2175
02:08:05,800 --> 02:08:10,000
Speaker 1: to a master's degree program at Pace University, which is

2176
02:08:10,160 --> 02:08:14,560
Speaker 1: such a power move. God love her. William Peter Bladdie

2177
02:08:14,600 --> 02:08:14,840
Speaker 1: went on.

2178
02:08:14,880 --> 02:08:18,840
Speaker 2: To write, adapt direct, and produce The Ninth Configuration, which

2179
02:08:18,920 --> 02:08:20,960
Speaker 2: became a critical hit but a commercial flop.

2180
02:08:21,160 --> 02:08:22,440
Speaker 1: I've never heard of it.

2181
02:08:23,240 --> 02:08:25,240
Speaker 2: He also wrote and directed, as you mentioned, the third

2182
02:08:25,280 --> 02:08:28,440
Speaker 2: Exorcist film, Legion, which became a cult classic and a

2183
02:08:28,480 --> 02:08:32,560
Speaker 2: favorite of my beloved Alex Heigel, and continued writing extensively

2184
02:08:32,600 --> 02:08:36,040
Speaker 2: about the original Exorcist as well as other novels as well,

2185
02:08:36,600 --> 02:08:38,920
Speaker 2: and he died in twenty seventeen at the age of

2186
02:08:39,000 --> 02:08:44,000
Speaker 2: eighty nine. William Friedkin's commercial fortunes declined post Exorcist. He

2187
02:08:44,160 --> 02:08:47,720
Speaker 2: made Sorcerer, an adaptation with the French film The Wages

2188
02:08:47,760 --> 02:08:51,000
Speaker 2: of Fear, which flopped but you say has undergone a

2189
02:08:51,080 --> 02:08:52,080
Speaker 2: critical reassessment.

2190
02:08:52,240 --> 02:08:57,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, that movie's wild. It's about truckers driving a load

2191
02:08:57,480 --> 02:09:02,880
Speaker 1: of TNT through the jung It's scored by Tangerine Dream

2192
02:09:05,200 --> 02:09:09,960
Speaker 1: and stars Roy Schneider. I don't know, I so I

2193
02:09:09,960 --> 02:09:12,680
Speaker 1: haven't seen it. I probably should have you seen Cruising,

2194
02:09:12,760 --> 02:09:15,800
Speaker 1: which you also mentioned before, which I have not seen Cruising.

2195
02:09:15,920 --> 02:09:18,680
Speaker 1: I would like to see it, Yeah, I kind of.

2196
02:09:19,520 --> 02:09:22,400
Speaker 1: It's morbidly fascinating to me. We should do some kind

2197
02:09:22,440 --> 02:09:24,520
Speaker 1: of like watch party version of that. All right, I'm

2198
02:09:24,560 --> 02:09:26,600
Speaker 1: game for that. I'd like to watch that.

2199
02:09:27,520 --> 02:09:29,440
Speaker 2: He did to Live and Die in la in nineteen

2200
02:09:29,480 --> 02:09:32,480
Speaker 2: eighty five, which was a success that was career for

2201
02:09:32,560 --> 02:09:34,760
Speaker 2: the most part, declined after that. He did have some

2202
02:09:34,880 --> 02:09:37,800
Speaker 2: late era success with a pair of Tracy Lett's adaptations

2203
02:09:38,440 --> 02:09:42,400
Speaker 2: Bug in two thousand and six, Any crime film, Killer Joe.

2204
02:09:43,600 --> 02:09:46,680
Speaker 1: He died just this year, in August twenty two days shy.

2205
02:09:46,840 --> 02:09:50,680
Speaker 1: It was eighty eighth birthday. So I want to touch

2206
02:09:50,720 --> 02:09:54,120
Speaker 1: on one more thing here. Having basically invented the modern

2207
02:09:54,160 --> 02:09:57,840
Speaker 1: exorcism movie, which is still that you can't find a

2208
02:09:57,920 --> 02:10:01,240
Speaker 1: movie about an exorcism that doesn't mirror this. It's just

2209
02:10:02,320 --> 02:10:06,880
Speaker 1: really not possible. I will say The Autopsy of Jane

2210
02:10:06,920 --> 02:10:09,680
Speaker 1: Doe is pretty good, kind of comes kind of close.

2211
02:10:09,760 --> 02:10:12,560
Speaker 1: It's a horror film about these guys doing a autopsy

2212
02:10:12,600 --> 02:10:15,360
Speaker 1: and a woman who was possessed takes place, all in

2213
02:10:15,440 --> 02:10:21,640
Speaker 1: the morgue. Pretty cool, I think Brian Coxson is it right.

2214
02:10:22,080 --> 02:10:25,680
Speaker 1: Great film, So a little bit of background that's necessary

2215
02:10:25,760 --> 02:10:29,240
Speaker 1: and just one of my favorite bits about this. Anecdotal

2216
02:10:29,320 --> 02:10:31,880
Speaker 1: reports from the time suggest that the crowds flocking to

2217
02:10:31,960 --> 02:10:36,040
Speaker 1: see The Exorcist were at least one third black, with

2218
02:10:36,240 --> 02:10:38,480
Speaker 1: one woman being quoted in the New York Times as saying,

2219
02:10:38,680 --> 02:10:41,240
Speaker 1: a lot of Blacks relate to voodoo and witchcraft and

2220
02:10:41,280 --> 02:10:44,520
Speaker 1: that kind of devil stuff. Many still believe in black magic,

2221
02:10:44,640 --> 02:10:47,600
Speaker 1: especially those from Haiti and the Deep South. And it

2222
02:10:47,640 --> 02:10:51,520
Speaker 1: gets more interesting because the film's skimpy distribution initially meant

2223
02:10:51,560 --> 02:10:54,920
Speaker 1: that in Los Angeles, the only theater in the area

2224
02:10:55,040 --> 02:10:58,760
Speaker 1: that could be found to show the film was in

2225
02:10:58,880 --> 02:11:04,520
Speaker 1: Beverly Hills, and so Warner Brothers did not anticipate that

2226
02:11:04,560 --> 02:11:08,640
Speaker 1: black people would want to see this movie, and he

2227
02:11:08,840 --> 02:11:12,400
Speaker 1: said in this book called Shock Value that created a

2228
02:11:12,480 --> 02:11:14,960
Speaker 1: problem for Warner Brothers because it's playing in lily white

2229
02:11:15,040 --> 02:11:18,160
Speaker 1: theaters in Westwood, and all of a sudden, the merchants

2230
02:11:18,240 --> 02:11:21,000
Speaker 1: are seeing a huge number of African Americans coming to

2231
02:11:21,080 --> 02:11:25,280
Speaker 1: their enclave. We needed to open up theaters in black neighborhoods.

2232
02:11:25,800 --> 02:11:28,280
Speaker 1: A guy named Stephen Farber equipped in film comment that

2233
02:11:28,480 --> 02:11:31,720
Speaker 1: The Exorcist may have done more to integrate Beverly Hills

2234
02:11:31,840 --> 02:11:35,640
Speaker 1: than any civil rights action. Some people have also theorized

2235
02:11:35,640 --> 02:11:39,880
Speaker 1: that The Exorcist caused the inadvertent end of the black

2236
02:11:39,880 --> 02:11:43,400
Speaker 1: exploitation movie because this the era, because the studio is

2237
02:11:43,440 --> 02:11:46,800
Speaker 1: basically realized, hey, we don't have to make movies that

2238
02:11:46,880 --> 02:11:50,600
Speaker 1: are transparently and surely catered to black people, because black

2239
02:11:50,600 --> 02:11:53,280
Speaker 1: people would just see movies if they're good. And this

2240
02:11:53,520 --> 02:11:57,600
Speaker 1: was a revelation to them. Because again, Hollywood is run

2241
02:11:57,680 --> 02:12:01,400
Speaker 1: by rich, stupid children. That all brings us to Abby.

2242
02:12:02,160 --> 02:12:06,240
Speaker 1: Abby is a film directed by a guy named William Girdler, who,

2243
02:12:06,360 --> 02:12:09,040
Speaker 1: in a six year span from seventy two to seventy

2244
02:12:09,080 --> 02:12:13,760
Speaker 1: eight made nine movies, three of which he also wrote himself.

2245
02:12:14,400 --> 02:12:19,040
Speaker 1: Some of his filmography are considered minor exploitation classics, like Grizzly,

2246
02:12:19,520 --> 02:12:23,480
Speaker 1: which was essentially a rewrite of Jaws, starring a bear

2247
02:12:23,560 --> 02:12:28,840
Speaker 1: instead of a shark, that rost thirty eight million worldwide

2248
02:12:28,880 --> 02:12:32,600
Speaker 1: on a seven hundred and fifty thousand dollars budget, making

2249
02:12:32,640 --> 02:12:36,240
Speaker 1: it the most profitable independent film of all time until

2250
02:12:36,280 --> 02:12:40,520
Speaker 1: Halloween comes out. Some of Girdler's other films starred icons

2251
02:12:40,560 --> 02:12:44,480
Speaker 1: like Pam Greer, Leslie Nielsen, and Tony Curtis. And Abby

2252
02:12:44,680 --> 02:12:47,800
Speaker 1: also starts William Marshall, who is most famous for Blackula

2253
02:12:48,360 --> 02:12:51,480
Speaker 1: and its sequel, and he's a great actor. If you

2254
02:12:51,600 --> 02:12:56,080
Speaker 1: ever see Blackcula, he's like, gives this incredible, like Broadway

2255
02:12:56,200 --> 02:12:58,440
Speaker 1: esque performance for something that is like he's the only

2256
02:12:58,480 --> 02:13:00,920
Speaker 1: person in there who's like, this is not exploitation film.

2257
02:13:00,960 --> 02:13:05,120
Speaker 1: This is a serious, damn role. Abby is accordingly a

2258
02:13:05,360 --> 02:13:08,920
Speaker 1: straight up rewrite of The Exorcist, with the twist that

2259
02:13:09,040 --> 02:13:15,320
Speaker 1: they just substitute for Catholicism the African Yoruba religion, and

2260
02:13:15,440 --> 02:13:18,040
Speaker 1: it is so on the nose that it was almost

2261
02:13:18,120 --> 02:13:22,120
Speaker 1: released according to some reports. I read as the Black Sorcist,

2262
02:13:23,240 --> 02:13:31,440
Speaker 1: which is admittedly catchier. That's not even a pun at

2263
02:13:31,520 --> 02:13:34,000
Speaker 1: the city. Is that a Simpsons that gag where they're

2264
02:13:34,080 --> 02:13:40,240
Speaker 1: like next up. Our exploitation marathon continues Blackulaw Blakenstein and

2265
02:13:40,400 --> 02:13:48,560
Speaker 1: the Blunch Black of Blowtre Blom. Abby was a surprise

2266
02:13:48,720 --> 02:13:51,880
Speaker 1: box office smashed or it had short windows in theaters.

2267
02:13:51,920 --> 02:13:54,840
Speaker 1: It grossed nearly four million dollars in just its first

2268
02:13:55,000 --> 02:13:58,120
Speaker 1: month and was noticed in the New York Times. Was

2269
02:13:58,200 --> 02:14:01,080
Speaker 1: reviewed in the New York Times, and Girdler, in a

2270
02:14:01,160 --> 02:14:03,640
Speaker 1: comment that would bite him in the ass shortly afterward,

2271
02:14:03,840 --> 02:14:08,120
Speaker 1: told the Louisville Courier Journal, Sure we made Abby to

2272
02:14:08,160 --> 02:14:10,640
Speaker 1: come in on the shirt tail of the Exorcist. That's

2273
02:14:10,800 --> 02:14:13,960
Speaker 1: like the Chappelle's show theory. He's like Rick James being like, yeah,

2274
02:14:13,960 --> 02:14:19,520
Speaker 1: I don't remember grinding my boot heels into's couch. Quick cut, Yeah,

2275
02:14:19,560 --> 02:14:22,160
Speaker 1: I remember grinding my boom boot heels into his white

2276
02:14:22,240 --> 02:14:26,040
Speaker 1: leather couch. Warner Brothers were indeed beset at the time

2277
02:14:26,080 --> 02:14:29,400
Speaker 1: by a flood of Exorcist imitators, mostly from the usual suspects,

2278
02:14:29,440 --> 02:14:31,280
Speaker 1: by which I mean, oh well, I just want to

2279
02:14:31,720 --> 02:14:32,480
Speaker 1: just something.

2280
02:14:33,240 --> 02:14:36,680
Speaker 2: William Girdler died soon after the success of this film.

2281
02:14:36,760 --> 02:14:38,560
Speaker 2: He died in nineteen seventy eight at the age of

2282
02:14:38,720 --> 02:14:42,480
Speaker 2: thirty in a helicopter crash in the Philippines, about thirty

2283
02:14:42,560 --> 02:14:45,839
Speaker 2: miles from Manila along with his producer, there were scouting

2284
02:14:45,920 --> 02:14:49,000
Speaker 2: film locations for a film about drug smuggling, and also

2285
02:14:49,120 --> 02:14:54,720
Speaker 2: the aforementioned Grizzly No William Marshall, Oh yeah, he's best

2286
02:14:54,800 --> 02:14:56,800
Speaker 2: known to me as playing the king of cartoon some

2287
02:14:56,920 --> 02:14:57,720
Speaker 2: pee Wee's playhouse.

2288
02:14:57,840 --> 02:14:59,640
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, right, I forgot he was also in that.

2289
02:15:00,920 --> 02:15:03,960
Speaker 1: So Warner Brothers were indeed beset by a legion of

2290
02:15:04,400 --> 02:15:09,160
Speaker 1: hey pun intended exorcist imitators, mostly from the usual suspects,

2291
02:15:09,200 --> 02:15:12,240
Speaker 1: by which I mean the filthy Spanish and Italian low

2292
02:15:12,320 --> 02:15:17,600
Speaker 1: budget film industry. Among the exorcist ripoffs flooding from those

2293
02:15:17,680 --> 02:15:22,760
Speaker 1: oily shores where Spain's Exorcism, Italy's The Anti Christ re

2294
02:15:23,120 --> 02:15:26,920
Speaker 1: released stateside as The Tempter, and a remake of Mario

2295
02:15:27,000 --> 02:15:30,600
Speaker 1: Baba's Lisa and the Devil titled The House of Exorcism.

2296
02:15:31,040 --> 02:15:34,120
Speaker 1: All of those films were released in nineteen seventy four.

2297
02:15:35,840 --> 02:15:38,280
Speaker 1: They took a year, not even a year. It came

2298
02:15:38,360 --> 02:15:41,480
Speaker 1: out to the end of seventy three months they took

2299
02:15:41,520 --> 02:15:43,960
Speaker 1: to rip it off. They probably watched it once and

2300
02:15:44,040 --> 02:15:49,360
Speaker 1: were like, yeah, we're rolling. One Italian co production, Beyond

2301
02:15:49,440 --> 02:15:51,320
Speaker 1: the Door opened in the United States in May of

2302
02:15:51,400 --> 02:15:54,560
Speaker 1: seventy five and that grows around fifteen million before Warners

2303
02:15:54,560 --> 02:15:57,280
Speaker 1: sued them over there, but that suit dragged on until

2304
02:15:57,320 --> 02:16:02,600
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy nine, whereas when Warners went after American International Pictures,

2305
02:16:02,600 --> 02:16:05,440
Speaker 1: which is a famous low budget film studio from the time,

2306
02:16:05,760 --> 02:16:08,800
Speaker 1: caved immediately because they had already made so much money

2307
02:16:08,880 --> 02:16:11,520
Speaker 1: on it. The film was out of theaters by nineteen

2308
02:16:11,600 --> 02:16:14,840
Speaker 1: seventy six, and Warners were allegedly allowed to seize and

2309
02:16:15,000 --> 02:16:19,360
Speaker 1: destroy all copies of the film, resulting it being unavailable

2310
02:16:19,600 --> 02:16:25,520
Speaker 1: through only like rips today. Could the movie is effectively lost? Abby,

2311
02:16:25,760 --> 02:16:28,320
Speaker 1: Yeah you could. I mean you can see it, but

2312
02:16:28,400 --> 02:16:30,320
Speaker 1: it's just through like there's never been I don't think

2313
02:16:30,320 --> 02:16:33,440
Speaker 1: they have an original print of it. That's amazing. God

2314
02:16:33,720 --> 02:16:37,840
Speaker 1: yeah yeah, Wikipedia page scarcely be a prince. In the end,

2315
02:16:37,959 --> 02:16:40,199
Speaker 1: the film is just a kind of fascinating curio because

2316
02:16:40,200 --> 02:16:43,960
Speaker 1: it was probably the first time that many white Americans

2317
02:16:44,000 --> 02:16:48,200
Speaker 1: were exposed to a truly original African religion in the

2318
02:16:48,600 --> 02:16:51,760
Speaker 1: Yoruba culture that goes through the film, albeit directed by

2319
02:16:51,800 --> 02:16:53,359
Speaker 1: a white guy from Kentucky.

2320
02:16:53,560 --> 02:16:57,880
Speaker 4: So you take a good bit the bad, all right,

2321
02:16:58,400 --> 02:17:00,280
Speaker 4: which is at the end of the day, what you

2322
02:17:00,320 --> 02:17:03,320
Speaker 4: can say about the Exorcist, you take the good with

2323
02:17:03,520 --> 02:17:03,879
Speaker 4: the bad.

2324
02:17:04,080 --> 02:17:08,080
Speaker 1: True. Aside from mentioning that this film is in the

2325
02:17:08,200 --> 02:17:14,040
Speaker 1: library of Congress Film Marcus Baby, what else could we

2326
02:17:14,120 --> 02:17:17,480
Speaker 1: possibly say? It is a deeply resonant fable about spirituality

2327
02:17:17,520 --> 02:17:19,800
Speaker 1: and faith and the face of evil, and it helped

2328
02:17:19,840 --> 02:17:23,720
Speaker 1: legitiize the horror genre in ways we are still feeling today.

2329
02:17:24,760 --> 02:17:27,160
Speaker 1: And as one woman told the Associated Press in an

2330
02:17:27,200 --> 02:17:30,000
Speaker 1: interview conducted to the height of the film's mania, I

2331
02:17:30,120 --> 02:17:33,840
Speaker 1: don't know. I guess it was a good movie, and

2332
02:17:33,920 --> 02:17:37,959
Speaker 1: People magazine call it the feel good movie of the year. Folks,

2333
02:17:38,000 --> 02:17:40,320
Speaker 1: thank you for listening. This has been too much information,

2334
02:17:40,520 --> 02:17:43,640
Speaker 1: too much exorcism. This has been too much Satan, too

2335
02:17:43,720 --> 02:17:52,840
Speaker 1: much Bazuzu. I'm father Heigel, and I'm father Jordan. We

2336
02:17:52,959 --> 02:17:56,840
Speaker 1: are casting you out. We'll catch you next time. Your

2337
02:17:56,879 --> 02:18:01,200
Speaker 1: mother sucks in help. He thought I was going to

2338
02:18:01,240 --> 02:18:04,400
Speaker 1: make it through the whole podcast without segment, didn't you

2339
02:18:04,720 --> 02:18:13,600
Speaker 1: you grube? Too Much Information was a production of iHeartRadio.

2340
02:18:13,879 --> 02:18:17,119
Speaker 1: The show's executive producers are Noel Brown and Jordan Runtog.

2341
02:18:17,280 --> 02:18:20,760
Speaker 1: The show's supervising producer is Michael Alder. June, the show

2342
02:18:20,879 --> 02:18:24,360
Speaker 1: was researched, written and hosted by Jordan Runtog and Alex Heigel,

2343
02:18:24,520 --> 02:18:27,680
Speaker 1: with original music by Seth Applebaum and the Ghost Funk Orchestra.

2344
02:18:28,080 --> 02:18:30,080
Speaker 1: If you like what you heard, please subscribe and leave

2345
02:18:30,160 --> 02:18:30,640
Speaker 1: us a review.

2346
02:18:30,920 --> 02:18:35,199
Speaker 2: For more podcasts on iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

2347
02:18:35,480 --> 02:18:37,160
Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.