Speaker 1: Hi, everybody, and welcome to Little Fires Everywhere, the official podcast,
Speaker 1: your formal safe space to learn, analyze, and decompressed after
Speaker 1: every new episode of Little Fires Everywhere airs on Hulu.
Speaker 1: My name is Jamie Loftus. I am normally the host
Speaker 1: of My Hearts, The Bechtel Cast, In My Year, and Mensa,
Speaker 1: But for this series, I'm going to be your tour
Speaker 1: guide through Little Fires Everywhere, along with the show's showrunner,
Speaker 1: executive producer, and head writer, the wonderful Liz Tigelaar. Liz
Speaker 1: was hand picked for this project after a successful career
Speaker 1: as a TV writer and producer, working on such projects
Speaker 1: as Brothers and Sisters, Life Unexpected, Once Upon a Time, Nashville,
Speaker 1: and Casual No Big Deal before being chosen to be
Speaker 1: the heart and soul of Little Fires Everywhere. But first,
Speaker 1: I would be remiss if I did not mention that
Speaker 1: this podcast is airing after the first three episodes of
Speaker 1: Little Fires Everywhere airs on Hulu, So if you're not
Speaker 1: caught up, just a warning, there's going to be spoilers
Speaker 1: for those first three episodes in the podcast, so don't
Speaker 1: at me if you didn't listen now today for our
Speaker 1: first episode of Little Fires Everywhere at the official podcast,
Speaker 1: I wanted to explore the idea of adaptation, because making
Speaker 1: a really good adaptation takes a lot of great people
Speaker 1: working at the very very top of their game. So
Speaker 1: how do you turn a well loved novel into an
Speaker 1: amazing drama series starring two of the most talented actresses
Speaker 1: of their generation. Reason they're tuning, Carrie Washington. It's totally easy,
Speaker 1: you guys. I'm kidding, but you know we're going to
Speaker 1: find that out today. We're gonna get to know Liz
Speaker 1: Tigelaar even better in a bit. But today I want
Speaker 1: to take you from page to screen the old fashioned way,
Speaker 1: So we're gonna start at the page. Liz, and I
Speaker 1: got a chance to speak to the woman who started
Speaker 1: it all, Celeste Ng, who published Little Fires Everywhere in
Speaker 1: based on her own experience growing up in Shaker Heights, Ohio.
Speaker 1: The book was universally praised by readers and critics alike,
Speaker 1: not only for its complicated dual protagonists, Mia Warren and
Speaker 1: Elena Richardson, but for the sheer volume of controversial topics
Speaker 1: it dealt with with nuance and grace, topics like class
Speaker 1: and motherhood in the very rarely discussed shades of gray
Speaker 1: on both sides of the interracial adoption process. The book
Speaker 1: absolutely captured readers, and it inspired Laura Newstatter, a producer
Speaker 1: at Rheese Witherspoon's production company Hello Sunshine, to get this
Speaker 1: whole page to screen process started. And we will be
Speaker 1: talking about that later in the episode. But first, Liz
Speaker 1: celest and I talked about seeing your work come to life,
Speaker 1: expanding on characters and ideas for the screen and more.
Speaker 1: Let's take a listen. So, Celeste, thank you for calling in.
Speaker 1: I wanted to start with you. Have you ever had
Speaker 1: something of yours adapted to the screen before? And is
Speaker 1: it every something that's like in your mind as you're writing,
Speaker 1: like I wonder what this would look like on screen,
Speaker 1: or I wonder who would play Elena or Mia or
Speaker 1: so on. No, this is the first writing project of
Speaker 1: mine that I've had adapted it. When I'm writing, I'm
Speaker 1: basically trying to fool myself into thinking that nobody will
Speaker 1: ever read what I write, because otherwise I'm too nervous
Speaker 1: to get it down. So the thought of adaptation or
Speaker 1: somebody else taking what I had and making into something
Speaker 1: new is was never something that had crossed my mind,
Speaker 1: got it and uh, and Liz, at what point in
Speaker 1: this process did you come in my understanding? As you
Speaker 1: were introduced to this project by Lauren Newstadter at Reese's
Speaker 1: production company, Hello Sunshine, and Reese had already gotten Kerry
Speaker 1: Washington signed on by the time you were brought in.
Speaker 1: So basically, you know, celest book got to Lauren, Lauren,
Speaker 1: got it to Reese, Reese loved it, got it to Carry,
Speaker 1: Carrie wanted to play Mia, and then once it was
Speaker 1: at that point, they needed a writer. So eventually Lauren
Speaker 1: sent it to me and said, you know, you have
Speaker 1: twenty four hours to read this, and if you want it,
Speaker 1: it's ears, um, you know, pending Celeste approval. And UM,
Speaker 1: I read it, and I loved it, and um, you know,
Speaker 1: there were just so many points of connectivity for me
Speaker 1: and reading it, and also there were just moments that
Speaker 1: I just felt such waves of emotion well up in me.
Speaker 1: Celest is such a beautiful writer, and and um, I
Speaker 1: just felt like, I don't know, this gift had kind
Speaker 1: of fallen into my lap. And UM, I was like, yes,
Speaker 1: you know, I've said before, I felt like there was
Speaker 1: the book and then recent Carrier signed on to be
Speaker 1: in it, which is like the icing on the cake,
Speaker 1: but that's not really the icing on the cake. Those
Speaker 1: are like two separate cakes, and so it's like someone's like,
Speaker 1: here's three cakes, and I'm like, oh my god, that's amazing,
Speaker 1: Like how did this happen? I like the book Andrey's
Speaker 1: and Carrie and so um, and I didn't really have
Speaker 1: to do anything to get the job, and so it
Speaker 1: was just it was amazing. UM. And then it was
Speaker 1: great because then we met and we kind of all
Speaker 1: met in a group, but Swst and I really got
Speaker 1: to talk and I was able to say, from reading
Speaker 1: the book, you know what I might do in an adaptation.
Speaker 1: That was like taking what was in the book and
Speaker 1: then even getting to expand out on that. And the
Speaker 1: great part was that, you know, I knew we were
Speaker 1: going to have eight episodes to take all those things
Speaker 1: and expand them out in these episodes. So it felt
Speaker 1: really great from the start. And I've I've said about
Speaker 1: Celeste the whole time, like I would imagine anyone who
Speaker 1: writes a book like this feels extremely close to the material. Obviously,
Speaker 1: they're humongously personal elements in this book, um let alone,
Speaker 1: just based on the place that you grew up and
Speaker 1: came of age. And so I think to give it
Speaker 1: over so generously and so freely with so much trust,
Speaker 1: I mean obviously spoke to the level of trust she
Speaker 1: had with recent Carrie, but also it meant that she
Speaker 1: had a lot of trust for me and for the
Speaker 1: writing staff I put together, and it gave us a
Speaker 1: lot of freedom to not feel handcuffed by the material.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, we all love the material
Speaker 1: so much. I mean, when Silus came to set, she
Speaker 1: said that everyone had like their dog eared copies of
Speaker 1: the book. You know, everyone wanted her to sign their book.
Speaker 1: Everyone had dog eared copies of the book. Everyone had
Speaker 1: their highlighted passages. This was a book that was beloved.
Speaker 1: Um is beloved, and so I think that, um, we
Speaker 1: didn't want to honor the book because we had to.
Speaker 1: We wanted to honor the book because we wanted to
Speaker 1: honor the book because we all love the book. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And that was that was so clear from the beginning.
Speaker 1: And you made it very easy for me to trust you.
Speaker 1: I mean, really from the beginning when you came to
Speaker 1: me and we're like, I'm thinking about taking this character
Speaker 1: and kind of extending her in this way, or I'm
Speaker 1: thinking about that this character might be exploring this in
Speaker 1: one of her plotlines. It was such a such a
Speaker 1: relief for me because I again thought, oh, some of
Speaker 1: those are things that I wanted to do. Others, you know,
Speaker 1: things that you thought of, I wouldn't have it. I
Speaker 1: still just loved because I felt like they were always
Speaker 1: true to the characters, and they were always rooted in
Speaker 1: the themes of the book. And I feel like that's
Speaker 1: been true at every step of the process, that there's
Speaker 1: been such sort of love and respect for the book,
Speaker 1: and that's what allows this series to kind of take
Speaker 1: the book and move it in a very slightly different direction.
Speaker 1: It's always been really firmly rooted in, like such a
Speaker 1: deep respect for the book, and as as an author,
Speaker 1: that's it's a huge It feels like a compliment to me,
Speaker 1: but it also feels really reassuring. It kind of gives
Speaker 1: me if you're gonna go, I trust you do do
Speaker 1: what you will because I know that you're going to
Speaker 1: do something that will be faithful to the sort of
Speaker 1: soul of this this story. And so lest you mentioned
Speaker 1: things you thought about doing in the book but didn't. Uh,
Speaker 1: could you give us an example of something the show
Speaker 1: did get to do that you didn't have a real
Speaker 1: estate for in the book. Yeah. So, I mean, right
Speaker 1: up front, something that I had sort of wanted to
Speaker 1: explore in the book, but that um everyone in the
Speaker 1: show was able to explore in a different way was
Speaker 1: um MIA's ethnicity. Obviously, casting Carrie as Mia carries a
Speaker 1: black woman changes what's in the book, because in that book,
Speaker 1: Mia is not specifically marked. But I I wrote her
Speaker 1: thinking of a working class white woman. But I had
Speaker 1: wanted to make her a person of color. Originally, I
Speaker 1: had thought that that would be another way of exploring
Speaker 1: these issues of race and class and really just privilege
Speaker 1: and power. But I didn't think that I could write
Speaker 1: a black woman's experience. I didn't want to presume that
Speaker 1: I could imagine fully what that was like. And so
Speaker 1: I wrote the character of Mia as a white woman.
Speaker 1: And I was really happy when Reese and Lauren came
Speaker 1: into were thinking of casting Carry, because it meant that
Speaker 1: they were seeing the same themes in the book and
Speaker 1: that they were willing to kind of lean into that
Speaker 1: and explore those right up front, and so carry's casting
Speaker 1: obviously brings that right into the forefront of the story, right,
Speaker 1: and diversity of perspective is an important part of this
Speaker 1: show on screen and off with the production staff. So yeah, So,
Speaker 1: so last, what was your impression of the writing team
Speaker 1: on the show You visited the writer's room during production, right, Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think the room that you put together was so diverse,
Speaker 1: not just in terms of race, but in terms of background,
Speaker 1: in terms of experience, and I think it really showed
Speaker 1: when I was reading the scripts and then when I
Speaker 1: got to see them on screen, that there is such
Speaker 1: a level of nuanced understanding. Um. I remember you saying
Speaker 1: at one point that it was not like any everybody
Speaker 1: in the room brought one thing. Everybody in the room brought,
Speaker 1: you know, like five things. And it shows because these
Speaker 1: are really complex intersections of all kinds of different life
Speaker 1: situations about the race in the class and all of
Speaker 1: those kind of different intersections of all of those different
Speaker 1: sort of privileges and struggles. It shows. And I think
Speaker 1: when I got to come to the room too, it
Speaker 1: was really fascinating to see people say, well, this was
Speaker 1: my experience, but like hold on, wait, okay, what about this, Well,
Speaker 1: when you're saying this, you know that's really different. And
Speaker 1: to kind of be able to look at an issue
Speaker 1: from many, many different perspectives. I think that's part of
Speaker 1: what gives these complicated moments in the show a lot
Speaker 1: of their power. Um where nothing nobody is being flattened here,
Speaker 1: everybody is kind of being given many sort of different
Speaker 1: facets um. And that shouldn't be rare and TV, but
Speaker 1: sometimes it is, and it's really beautifully done. That's so coold.
Speaker 1: Did it make you want to be in writer's rooms?
Speaker 1: I mean I I want to be a fly on
Speaker 1: the wall in the writer's room. I learned so much
Speaker 1: as a writer because as a novelist, it's really just
Speaker 1: me like I'm here in my office and I'm alone
Speaker 1: right now, right and I get to kind of decide stuff,
Speaker 1: and I can scrap stuff, and I can make decisions.
Speaker 1: I make many bad decisions, and there's nobody to stop me. Um.
Speaker 1: So I really enjoyed seeing that kind of collaborative process.
Speaker 1: I don't know if I could do it, because I
Speaker 1: feel like I feel like it's it's such a skill
Speaker 1: to be able to talk those things out, whereas my
Speaker 1: usual method is I just sit there and stare at
Speaker 1: my computer screen and kind of uh inadvertently make faces
Speaker 1: and like tug at my hair and and then eventually
Speaker 1: maybe I come up with an idea. Um. But it
Speaker 1: gave me a new way of thinking about how to
Speaker 1: approach plot and character um, seeing the way that the
Speaker 1: room was really thinking about arc and thinking about, Okay,
Speaker 1: what is each character's are Over the course of the
Speaker 1: entire show, there was this giant rainbow colored um chart
Speaker 1: up on the wall, which I took a picture of
Speaker 1: as an inspiration for myself, um about how to kind
Speaker 1: of keep each of those threads there and make sure
Speaker 1: that nobody falls through the wayside. I mean, that was
Speaker 1: a whole different way of storytelling. And so if I
Speaker 1: could just kind of quietly eavesdrop on on you know,
Speaker 1: every writer's room in the world, that would be that
Speaker 1: would be the best. Sounds like this one pretty well.
Speaker 1: It's really been, I think a charmed experience. I mean
Speaker 1: every interview they're like, how did it go? Did you
Speaker 1: like it? Where you defensive and I always feel like
Speaker 1: there's a secret part where people sort of hope that
Speaker 1: I'll say it was horrible, because that would be you know,
Speaker 1: that's a juicy story. But the truth is that I
Speaker 1: feel like everyone working on this production, UM, really came
Speaker 1: to the book with such respect and yet also with
Speaker 1: such energy and so many ideas about how to translate
Speaker 1: it to the screen. And it was this sort of
Speaker 1: really charmed experience where, UM, I feel like it's set
Speaker 1: a really high bar for whatever I work on in
Speaker 1: the future. UM, that I'm going to kind of expect
Speaker 1: this level of sort of love for the book and
Speaker 1: this kind of synergy to happen. Um. But it's it's
Speaker 1: it's a hard example to follow because everybody did seem
Speaker 1: to be bringing their a game and it seems to
Speaker 1: have just clicked together in a really beautiful way. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I felt so you know, across the board, I felt
Speaker 1: like there was just so much passion, um and heart
Speaker 1: and it felt you know, look, it was it was
Speaker 1: a privilege to get to go into a writer's room
Speaker 1: and to be able to talk about things that felt
Speaker 1: so vital. You know, you don't sit around, especially as
Speaker 1: a white person in everyday life, talking about race and
Speaker 1: class very often. Um, you don't. You're not forced to
Speaker 1: kind of confront what you think, and you have the
Speaker 1: luxury of not thinking about it sometimes probably most of
Speaker 1: the time, and so to go into a room where
Speaker 1: that is our task, and then to also talk about
Speaker 1: through the lens of motherhood when a lot of us
Speaker 1: are mothers. I think it just it felt. It felt
Speaker 1: important in a way where I don't mean like the
Speaker 1: work is so important and the show is so important,
Speaker 1: although certainly they are to me and I hope they
Speaker 1: will be to others. I mean to say that I
Speaker 1: think the experience of doing the work felt so important,
Speaker 1: and I think the other part of it, and I
Speaker 1: hope one of the reasons that it went so well,
Speaker 1: and I believe this is that most of us are moms,
Speaker 1: and you know, moms know how to do a bunch
Speaker 1: of things, but many of which which are be efficient,
Speaker 1: um collaborate and take care of something you love, and
Speaker 1: those qualities I think are um are part of what's
Speaker 1: made this such a great experience. So I hadn't I
Speaker 1: hadn't thought about it that way, Liz, But I'm thinking that,
Speaker 1: you know, if there's a parenting lesson in the book,
Speaker 1: and it certainly is not intended to be any kind
Speaker 1: of parenting manual, and anyway, I don't want to pretend
Speaker 1: I have any answers, let alone that they're in the book.
Speaker 1: But I do think you know, one of the things
Speaker 1: I think a lot about and that works ex wain
Speaker 1: to my writing, is this idea that your child is
Speaker 1: a separate being from you, and that even when you
Speaker 1: maybe want a particular thing for them for very very
Speaker 1: good reasons, a lot of times you have to recognize
Speaker 1: that maybe that's not what they need, and you have
Speaker 1: to give them the space to get what they need
Speaker 1: and to figure out who they are. And I think
Speaker 1: there is a parallel there um, certainly for me in
Speaker 1: thinking about, here's this book, which is my baby, one
Speaker 1: of my babies, but I'm gonna let it go out
Speaker 1: and grow up into something else, right, And and I
Speaker 1: think that sharing sort of sharing a responsibility which is
Speaker 1: sort of like I'm going to support you, I'm going
Speaker 1: to push you in the ways that I think you need,
Speaker 1: but if it seems like you need something else, I'm
Speaker 1: also going to respect that. And that was the attitude
Speaker 1: that I think everybody working on this production that I've
Speaker 1: talked to had. They had ideas and visions where where
Speaker 1: I wanted to go, and then if they saw that
Speaker 1: that wasn't quite right. They were willing to core, suggest
Speaker 1: and listen to project the way I guess that you
Speaker 1: hopefully listen to your child as they start to grow
Speaker 1: up and tell you who they are and what they need.
Speaker 1: I thought about it like that, But it's actually a
Speaker 1: pretty good analogy, absolutely, I know, I think, and I
Speaker 1: I even felt that way from script form into production,
Speaker 1: into editing and now on the cusp of kind of
Speaker 1: having it out in the world, like I felt those
Speaker 1: moments too. And there is there's like a beautiful Mary
Speaker 1: Oliver quote which I won't even be able to say
Speaker 1: the whole thing, but it it has to do with like,
Speaker 1: to live in this world, you have to do three things,
Speaker 1: and one of the things I think is like holding
Speaker 1: fiercely to what's yours or what you love the most,
Speaker 1: and then when the time comes, knowing when you have
Speaker 1: to let it go. And I do feel like and
Speaker 1: I mean it res me, even though of course I
Speaker 1: have now butchered the quote, um the quote and it's
Speaker 1: and it's it's rightful place rex me and I think
Speaker 1: that there is something about this it's similar. And I
Speaker 1: know the writers felt that way when they wrote their
Speaker 1: own scripts and even just had to give them to me. Um,
Speaker 1: I know I felt that way and in giving it
Speaker 1: over too, and I'm sure of course you felt that way,
Speaker 1: celest And I think that that is a I think
Speaker 1: that that is in our in our best hopes as
Speaker 1: parents or mothers, that you can see something kind of
Speaker 1: getting its legs and taking its shape and being what
Speaker 1: it's going to become, and then helping guide it to
Speaker 1: become that without getting in its way. And I think that, um,
Speaker 1: I I think part of the reason that this experience
Speaker 1: has been so so great is because of because of
Speaker 1: the motherhood aspect, both in the story and both in
Speaker 1: the people who have who have brought it to life.
Speaker 1: You know, celest first and foremost, it's sort of recognizing
Speaker 1: that you are a big influence, but one of the
Speaker 1: influences on this thing and this thing's life, and then
Speaker 1: also giving it the space to become what it's going
Speaker 1: to be, um, even if that wasn't what you thought
Speaker 1: it was going to be originally. Yeah, yeah, totally. I
Speaker 1: was in awe of the enormous just numbers of people
Speaker 1: working on this project because this is my first experience
Speaker 1: in film, but seeing everybody kind of click in Um,
Speaker 1: everybody's got their own job, and everybody's got their own
Speaker 1: particular visions. But there's this moment where all the gears
Speaker 1: kind of clicklick, click, click, and then it'll go and
Speaker 1: they all turn a bunch, and it was pretty amazing
Speaker 1: to watch. Again, as a novelist, it's usually just me
Speaker 1: and so to get to see that kind of collaboration
Speaker 1: and that kind of collaboration working really well was was
Speaker 1: pretty stuying. That was celest Ng. We will be hearing
Speaker 1: more from in our next episode, speaking on her experience
Speaker 1: growing up in the real life Shaker Heights, Ohio in
Speaker 1: the nineties. So now you know where the page to
Speaker 1: screen process begins, and from here, Liz take a Lar
Speaker 1: becomes absolutely critical to the project. A showrunner is well,
Speaker 1: they run the show. They're involved in every facet in
Speaker 1: a creative sense, and they become the spiritual center of
Speaker 1: the project itself at every phase of production. And for
Speaker 1: a show like Little Fires Everywhere, this was no small pressure.
Speaker 1: But Liz, as you're about to hear, had more than
Speaker 1: enough heart and determination and talent to make this show
Speaker 1: something truly special. So what you're about to hear is
Speaker 1: an interview from the second time we ever met, so
Speaker 1: you will be able to hear me actively developing a
Speaker 1: friend crush on her. Hi, how are you good? How
Speaker 1: are you good? Good? Just to start things out. What
Speaker 1: I'm really curious about is adapting such a well loved work.
Speaker 1: You go into this process knowing some basic adaptation changes
Speaker 1: you want. You have your two leads, and then you're
Speaker 1: building your writer's rooms. So what were you looking for
Speaker 1: and how did you sort of build this team? So
Speaker 1: I knew it was really important to me that the
Speaker 1: ChIL landscape of the upper level writers of the room
Speaker 1: matched the book, because I felt like that's the only
Speaker 1: way that we're going to be able to encompass all
Speaker 1: the voices of the book and accurately tell the story.
Speaker 1: And so that's what I focused on putting together. But
Speaker 1: of course, as I feel used on doing that, I
Speaker 1: kept meeting with people, and every time I met with somebody,
Speaker 1: I felt like they would be perfect for the show
Speaker 1: and how could I do the show without them? And
Speaker 1: so what was going to be a maybe three person
Speaker 1: staff or maybe four ended up being a seven person
Speaker 1: staff because I just felt like I couldn't live without anybody.
Speaker 1: I actually wanted an eighth writer, but there weren't enough episodes.
Speaker 1: I knew I wanted mothers in that upper level position.
Speaker 1: I knew I wanted, not that I wasn't open to men,
Speaker 1: but it's a story about mothers, and I felt like,
Speaker 1: who better to tell it than mother's um. And so
Speaker 1: that was really what my hopes were for assembling the room.
Speaker 1: I ended up with all these wonderful writers, half of
Speaker 1: which I had worked with before, and then half of
Speaker 1: which were new to me. And we did hire one guy,
Speaker 1: Harris sano Um, because yes, he was our token man
Speaker 1: and our token white man, and he was incredible. ABC
Speaker 1: was like, don't you want one man? And I was like,
Speaker 1: does it ruin the picture? And and I'm like, it
Speaker 1: doesn't need to ruin the picture. And if there's any
Speaker 1: man who should be in this room and would thrive
Speaker 1: with all women, is Harris. And so we ended up
Speaker 1: just assembling this great room. And it was the best
Speaker 1: room I've ever been in terms of what everybody had
Speaker 1: to offer from their own life perspective, and how everybody
Speaker 1: just cared so deeply about the material, you know, and
Speaker 1: different people advocated for different things that at different times,
Speaker 1: and Carrie included talking about like what do we want
Speaker 1: to say with these characters. We didn't want to imply
Speaker 1: that Mia only had an issue with Elena because she
Speaker 1: was white. We wanted to make it clear that it
Speaker 1: was the wealth and just the privilege and the lack
Speaker 1: of understanding somebody in a different position. And this question
Speaker 1: of because you can afford to be a great parent,
Speaker 1: does that actually make you a great parent? One of
Speaker 1: the things that I've really loved. We get these moments
Speaker 1: with Elena and Mia that we didn't get in the book.
Speaker 1: That means that we get recent carry on screen, which
Speaker 1: is what everybody wants. So how did you approach those scenes?
Speaker 1: That's a good question. I mean, we definitely said they
Speaker 1: have to be in scenes together, and they have to
Speaker 1: have a story that pings off each other. They can't
Speaker 1: be siloed into their own worlds and not cross because,
Speaker 1: like you're saying, their relationship is are in some ways
Speaker 1: love hate story of you know, of the of the theories.
Speaker 1: So it's they're the couple that were the most interested
Speaker 1: in and I think that meant moving up a lot
Speaker 1: of things in terms of structure. I knew I wanted
Speaker 1: to have Mia in that house or agreeing to be
Speaker 1: in that house by the end of the pilot, because
Speaker 1: I felt like that launched what their dynamic was going
Speaker 1: to be. And then to find moments that felt really truthful,
Speaker 1: you know. I think in episode two we talked a
Speaker 1: lot about how does Mia really feel about Elena and
Speaker 1: when is she truthful? And when is she playing a game?
Speaker 1: And and I say playing a game, but really what
Speaker 1: I mean is doing what she needs to do to
Speaker 1: not have her secrets revealed and to keep, you know,
Speaker 1: to keep Elena basically off her trail. It's her walking
Speaker 1: this line between setting her boundaries but not having Elena's
Speaker 1: antenna raised about her, and then if it is, having
Speaker 1: to figure out how to diffuse the situation and get
Speaker 1: Elena feeling okay again until it gets combative and hostile
Speaker 1: between them, which are very truthful moments. Liz and I
Speaker 1: had so much more to talk about, but we don't
Speaker 1: want to give too much away. Uh So, to close
Speaker 1: out this first podcast episode, we're going to talk to
Speaker 1: the executive producer team about a lot of stuff, um
Speaker 1: some of the page to screen elements, and about one
Speaker 1: of my favorite aspects of the Little Fires Everywhere team,
Speaker 1: which is at the top level. It's all women, which
Speaker 1: is a very very rare thing in the television business,
Speaker 1: or if you exist in the world in any business.
Speaker 1: So Lize and I are going to have a chat
Speaker 1: with Laura Newstatter of Hello Sunshine, Reese wisp Into Production Company,
Speaker 1: and Pilar Savone of Simpson Street Productions. Carrie Washington's company
Speaker 1: Nay along with Reese, Carrie, Liz and director Lynn Shelton
Speaker 1: are the executive producers on Little Fires Everywhere. So we're
Speaker 1: going to talk about that and more. Let's take a listen. So,
Speaker 1: Laura Nippolour, thank you so much for being here. What
Speaker 1: I'd really like to talk about is the collaboration that
Speaker 1: happened on the production team in this. It's I think
Speaker 1: one of the only shows I've ever seen that has
Speaker 1: all women at the top of the packing order. Is
Speaker 1: this I mean working on an all female producer team.
Speaker 1: Is that something that you had experienced before? And yeah,
Speaker 1: like I imagine, it only makes life easier. So I
Speaker 1: would love to hear, uh, I love to hear everyone
Speaker 1: speak to that. Speaking from the Hello Sunshine side, I
Speaker 1: would say, we strive for representation and we want to
Speaker 1: make sure that there are always women in the conversation
Speaker 1: and at the front of the conversation. This team was
Speaker 1: a total dream team. Um. It was so carefully curated
Speaker 1: at every step, and I think we just became a family.
Speaker 1: And we had so many conversations that were inspiring, so
Speaker 1: many conversations that were hard, um, so many conversations that
Speaker 1: were really about how do we tell this story in
Speaker 1: the best way, in the most thoughtful way, in the
Speaker 1: most authentic way. And I think without every member of
Speaker 1: the team, we could never have done what we did. Amazing. Um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: from my point of view, it was I grew up
Speaker 1: in in the man's world on this in this business,
Speaker 1: so it was actually a really new experience to be
Speaker 1: working with all women and it was amazing. Um. But
Speaker 1: it's different. It's definitely different when you have a bunch
Speaker 1: of women sitting down and trying to figure things out.
Speaker 1: It's more thoughtful, it's sometimes as easier. Um. We laughed,
Speaker 1: we cried. Um, we just really dug in in a
Speaker 1: different way as opposed to having a man just come
Speaker 1: in and um. But it was super important to all
Speaker 1: of us, and we made sure every step of the
Speaker 1: way that we were including women and other diversity and
Speaker 1: and just being really thoughtful and all of it. And
Speaker 1: men we always wanted to in the conversation because it
Speaker 1: wasn't about only having women in the conversation. It was
Speaker 1: just about it was about telling authentic and representative stories.
Speaker 1: And this is really one. Yeah. I mean, we made
Speaker 1: sure there was one man in the writer's room. We
Speaker 1: made sure that we were meeting male directors. Um. We
Speaker 1: had an amazing director, Michael Weaver, who directed episodes two
Speaker 1: and three. Liz brought him into the fold and he
Speaker 1: became such an important part of our family. And in
Speaker 1: Zinga Stewart, who directed six and seven was incredible as well.
Speaker 1: We had we had a great group of people, and
Speaker 1: our production manager was a man which I think was
Speaker 1: really fun, Brad, who was kind of like our dad,
Speaker 1: you know. I mean, when Brad walked on set, it
Speaker 1: was like time to go, let's wrap it up. He
Speaker 1: was kind of the he was our dad. And our
Speaker 1: dps were incredibly brilliant men. Okay, so I have time
Speaker 1: for two more questions. So first I wanted to ask
Speaker 1: what was your involvement in the casting process? Um, where
Speaker 1: you know, you go into this process knowing, okay, these
Speaker 1: are our two leads, Let's build a family for them,
Speaker 1: and let's build a world around them. Um, Lauren, how
Speaker 1: did you know when you had found the family? We
Speaker 1: were intensely intimately involved. David Reubin, our casting director, is
Speaker 1: tremendous and we were so intentional about choosing these amazing
Speaker 1: kids who could really deliver the arc of the performance.
Speaker 1: And I think David was an amazing leader in doing that.
Speaker 1: And then really and truly every single one of us
Speaker 1: and Reese and Carrie were intimately involved in watching the tapes,
Speaker 1: talking about it together, making sure that we brought kids back.
Speaker 1: If we didn't see something that we needed to see
Speaker 1: that we wanted to see because we knew where the
Speaker 1: character had to go, we really dug in. I mean,
Speaker 1: all of these kids are so amazing. It is a
Speaker 1: dream come true. We also did a bunch of chemistry reads,
Speaker 1: you know, to make sure that they all worked well together.
Speaker 1: But I also think having recent Carrie kind of always
Speaker 1: be that last step to make sure as actresses that
Speaker 1: they saw it in them as well, and these were
Speaker 1: the people that they wanted to be in scenes with
Speaker 1: every single day. We're really really helpful and we really
Speaker 1: wanted the kids to be the ages of real teenagers
Speaker 1: that we wanted them to be the ages of the
Speaker 1: characters they were playing. We didn't want to like nine
Speaker 1: O two and o it, you know, with a bunch
Speaker 1: of twenty year olds. We really wanted them to feel
Speaker 1: like authentic, you know, fourteen, fifteen, sixteen, seventeen, you know,
Speaker 1: eighteen year olds, and and I think that they do. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it feels very they are. It's always so yeah, like
Speaker 1: cool slash almost jarring. When you see someone who is
Speaker 1: the right age as a teenage you're playing a teenager,
Speaker 1: You're like, yeah, that is what a teenager looks like. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: last question, I will make it quick. Um, after you know,
Speaker 1: taking this whole journey with the story from start to finish, Liz,
Speaker 1: what do you hope viewers take away from watching Little
Speaker 1: Fires Everywhere? I hope that they initially see themselves, and
Speaker 1: then I hope that it leads them to examine themselves
Speaker 1: and what their initial biases or gut reactions were, and
Speaker 1: then how they critically think about them having seen the
Speaker 1: rest of the show. Um, I'd love it if people
Speaker 1: took that away. Cool, Lauren, Mine is very similar. I
Speaker 1: think when you watch the show you will this really
Speaker 1: connect with a character, and I would invite our audience
Speaker 1: to go on the full journey with the character that
Speaker 1: they vis really connect with, and then afterwards honestly examine
Speaker 1: the assumptions that they made at the beginning and the
Speaker 1: way that they feel at the end, and then really
Speaker 1: just take that away and walk into the world and
Speaker 1: see the world through a slightly different lens and maybe
Speaker 1: ask more questions, maybe come with a little more curiosity
Speaker 1: and fewer assumptions, because I think we all have an
Speaker 1: opportunity to grow and be a little bit better, and
Speaker 1: I hope this show inspires everybody to do that. Cool
Speaker 1: And what about you, pl Yeah, I mean mine is similar.
Speaker 1: I mean I think we just want everybody to go
Speaker 1: on a journey with these characters and their lives. And
Speaker 1: I think that we were all teenagers at one point. Um,
Speaker 1: we all have parents or we're parents at one point.
Speaker 1: I think we all relate to there's a kernel in
Speaker 1: all of this that we all relate to, whether it's
Speaker 1: your relationship with your mother or your father, or your
Speaker 1: boyfriend or your girlfriend. Um, there's insecurities, there's um striving
Speaker 1: to be better. So I think it's it's really digging
Speaker 1: deep and asking those questions of yourself and then also
Speaker 1: just really having conversations with the people that are also
Speaker 1: watching it with you, and and talking about um, some
Speaker 1: of the issues that we bring up UM and also
Speaker 1: just having I mean just having a great time watching it.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's so on. I was going to say,
Speaker 1: en favorite juicy. It's really juicy, and it only gets
Speaker 1: juicier as the show goes on. Well, thank all three
Speaker 1: of you for making the time and coming in to
Speaker 1: talk to us. Thank you, thank you. And I've heard
Speaker 1: from the executive producers and I hope that this episode
Speaker 1: gave you a better idea of how an adaptation of
Speaker 1: a novel is brought to life on screen. But make
Speaker 1: no mistake, we have many, many more people to talk
Speaker 1: to to get the full picture. So for the next
Speaker 1: five weeks we'll be talking to actors, composers, writers, real
Speaker 1: people in Shaker Heights today, the artists behind me as
Speaker 1: working the show, many many more, and of course more
Speaker 1: of the lovely lizt tig Alur. So next week we're
Speaker 1: going to be exploring Shaker Heights, Ohio, inside and out.
Speaker 1: And in the meantime, you can watch new episodes of
Speaker 1: Little Fires Everywhere on Hulu every Wednesday, and listen to
Speaker 1: us here on Little Fires Everywhere at the podcast every Thursday,
Speaker 1: and remember to subscribe to us on I Heart Apple Podcast, Spotify,
Speaker 1: stick your or wherever you get your podcasts, and be
Speaker 1: sure to follow at Little Fires Hulu on all platforms.
Speaker 1: My name is Jamie Loftus and we'll see you next
Speaker 1: week and shake your hides