WEBVTT - The Adaptation 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:24.480 Hi, everybody, and welcome to Little Fires Everywhere, the official podcast, 0:00:24.680 --> 0:00:28.840 your formal safe space to learn, analyze, and decompressed after 0:00:29.000 --> 0:00:33.000 every new episode of Little Fires Everywhere airs on Hulu. 0:00:33.320 --> 0:00:35.560 My name is Jamie Loftus. I am normally the host 0:00:35.680 --> 0:00:38.280 of My Hearts, The Bechtel Cast, In My Year, and Mensa, 0:00:38.440 --> 0:00:40.920 But for this series, I'm going to be your tour 0:00:41.000 --> 0:00:44.640 guide through Little Fires Everywhere, along with the show's showrunner, 0:00:44.840 --> 0:00:49.640 executive producer, and head writer, the wonderful Liz Tigelaar. Liz 0:00:49.800 --> 0:00:52.880 was hand picked for this project after a successful career 0:00:52.960 --> 0:00:56.120 as a TV writer and producer, working on such projects 0:00:56.160 --> 0:01:01.160 as Brothers and Sisters, Life Unexpected, Once Upon a Time, Nashville, 0:01:01.280 --> 0:01:05.000 and Casual No Big Deal before being chosen to be 0:01:05.040 --> 0:01:08.920 the heart and soul of Little Fires Everywhere. But first, 0:01:09.200 --> 0:01:11.960 I would be remiss if I did not mention that 0:01:12.040 --> 0:01:15.600 this podcast is airing after the first three episodes of 0:01:15.760 --> 0:01:19.760 Little Fires Everywhere airs on Hulu, So if you're not 0:01:19.880 --> 0:01:22.959 caught up, just a warning, there's going to be spoilers 0:01:23.200 --> 0:01:26.240 for those first three episodes in the podcast, so don't 0:01:26.319 --> 0:01:30.200 at me if you didn't listen now today for our 0:01:30.240 --> 0:01:33.760 first episode of Little Fires Everywhere at the official podcast, 0:01:33.920 --> 0:01:38.000 I wanted to explore the idea of adaptation, because making 0:01:38.120 --> 0:01:41.600 a really good adaptation takes a lot of great people 0:01:41.720 --> 0:01:43.959 working at the very very top of their game. So 0:01:44.000 --> 0:01:47.400 how do you turn a well loved novel into an 0:01:47.440 --> 0:01:51.120 amazing drama series starring two of the most talented actresses 0:01:51.320 --> 0:01:56.240 of their generation. Reason they're tuning, Carrie Washington. It's totally easy, 0:01:56.360 --> 0:01:59.200 you guys. I'm kidding, but you know we're going to 0:01:59.280 --> 0:02:01.480 find that out today. We're gonna get to know Liz 0:02:01.520 --> 0:02:04.760 Tigelaar even better in a bit. But today I want 0:02:04.800 --> 0:02:08.400 to take you from page to screen the old fashioned way, 0:02:08.480 --> 0:02:10.680 So we're gonna start at the page. Liz, and I 0:02:10.720 --> 0:02:13.079 got a chance to speak to the woman who started 0:02:13.120 --> 0:02:16.880 it all, Celeste Ng, who published Little Fires Everywhere in 0:02:18.160 --> 0:02:21.520 based on her own experience growing up in Shaker Heights, Ohio. 0:02:21.800 --> 0:02:25.320 The book was universally praised by readers and critics alike, 0:02:25.680 --> 0:02:29.280 not only for its complicated dual protagonists, Mia Warren and 0:02:29.280 --> 0:02:33.160 Elena Richardson, but for the sheer volume of controversial topics 0:02:33.160 --> 0:02:37.120 it dealt with with nuance and grace, topics like class 0:02:37.160 --> 0:02:40.480 and motherhood in the very rarely discussed shades of gray 0:02:40.600 --> 0:02:44.640 on both sides of the interracial adoption process. The book 0:02:44.720 --> 0:02:49.240 absolutely captured readers, and it inspired Laura Newstatter, a producer 0:02:49.280 --> 0:02:52.600 at Rheese Witherspoon's production company Hello Sunshine, to get this 0:02:52.600 --> 0:02:55.280 whole page to screen process started. And we will be 0:02:55.320 --> 0:02:58.519 talking about that later in the episode. But first, Liz 0:02:58.560 --> 0:03:01.400 celest and I talked about seeing your work come to life, 0:03:01.680 --> 0:03:05.160 expanding on characters and ideas for the screen and more. 0:03:05.520 --> 0:03:11.280 Let's take a listen. So, Celeste, thank you for calling in. 0:03:11.680 --> 0:03:14.519 I wanted to start with you. Have you ever had 0:03:14.560 --> 0:03:17.640 something of yours adapted to the screen before? And is 0:03:17.639 --> 0:03:20.320 it every something that's like in your mind as you're writing, 0:03:20.360 --> 0:03:23.000 like I wonder what this would look like on screen, 0:03:23.200 --> 0:03:25.959 or I wonder who would play Elena or Mia or 0:03:26.240 --> 0:03:29.480 so on. No, this is the first writing project of 0:03:29.520 --> 0:03:32.320 mine that I've had adapted it. When I'm writing, I'm 0:03:32.320 --> 0:03:35.560 basically trying to fool myself into thinking that nobody will 0:03:35.560 --> 0:03:38.240 ever read what I write, because otherwise I'm too nervous 0:03:38.280 --> 0:03:41.360 to get it down. So the thought of adaptation or 0:03:41.400 --> 0:03:44.200 somebody else taking what I had and making into something 0:03:44.200 --> 0:03:46.240 new is was never something that had crossed my mind, 0:03:46.480 --> 0:03:48.560 got it and uh, and Liz, at what point in 0:03:48.600 --> 0:03:50.960 this process did you come in my understanding? As you 0:03:51.000 --> 0:03:54.080 were introduced to this project by Lauren Newstadter at Reese's 0:03:54.120 --> 0:03:57.880 production company, Hello Sunshine, and Reese had already gotten Kerry 0:03:57.920 --> 0:04:00.640 Washington signed on by the time you were brought in. 0:04:01.160 --> 0:04:03.960 So basically, you know, celest book got to Lauren, Lauren, 0:04:04.000 --> 0:04:08.280 got it to Reese, Reese loved it, got it to Carry, 0:04:08.600 --> 0:04:13.000 Carrie wanted to play Mia, and then once it was 0:04:13.080 --> 0:04:18.599 at that point, they needed a writer. So eventually Lauren 0:04:18.839 --> 0:04:22.359 sent it to me and said, you know, you have 0:04:22.440 --> 0:04:25.000 twenty four hours to read this, and if you want it, 0:04:25.000 --> 0:04:30.000 it's ears, um, you know, pending Celeste approval. And UM, 0:04:30.040 --> 0:04:33.279 I read it, and I loved it, and um, you know, 0:04:34.000 --> 0:04:36.760 there were just so many points of connectivity for me 0:04:36.960 --> 0:04:40.360 and reading it, and also there were just moments that 0:04:41.520 --> 0:04:45.080 I just felt such waves of emotion well up in me. 0:04:45.600 --> 0:04:50.440 Celest is such a beautiful writer, and and um, I 0:04:50.560 --> 0:04:54.800 just felt like, I don't know, this gift had kind 0:04:54.839 --> 0:04:58.560 of fallen into my lap. And UM, I was like, yes, 0:04:58.680 --> 0:05:01.200 you know, I've said before, I felt like there was 0:05:01.240 --> 0:05:04.000 the book and then recent Carrier signed on to be 0:05:04.040 --> 0:05:05.760 in it, which is like the icing on the cake, 0:05:06.000 --> 0:05:08.120 but that's not really the icing on the cake. Those 0:05:08.120 --> 0:05:10.240 are like two separate cakes, and so it's like someone's like, 0:05:10.279 --> 0:05:12.960 here's three cakes, and I'm like, oh my god, that's amazing, 0:05:13.080 --> 0:05:15.440 Like how did this happen? I like the book Andrey's 0:05:15.520 --> 0:05:18.800 and Carrie and so um, and I didn't really have 0:05:18.880 --> 0:05:21.479 to do anything to get the job, and so it 0:05:21.520 --> 0:05:24.800 was just it was amazing. UM. And then it was 0:05:24.839 --> 0:05:27.560 great because then we met and we kind of all 0:05:27.600 --> 0:05:30.000 met in a group, but Swst and I really got 0:05:30.480 --> 0:05:33.920 to talk and I was able to say, from reading 0:05:33.960 --> 0:05:37.960 the book, you know what I might do in an adaptation. 0:05:38.480 --> 0:05:40.520 That was like taking what was in the book and 0:05:40.560 --> 0:05:43.960 then even getting to expand out on that. And the 0:05:44.000 --> 0:05:46.480 great part was that, you know, I knew we were 0:05:46.480 --> 0:05:49.440 going to have eight episodes to take all those things 0:05:49.600 --> 0:05:52.440 and expand them out in these episodes. So it felt 0:05:52.520 --> 0:05:55.760 really great from the start. And I've I've said about 0:05:55.839 --> 0:05:58.880 Celeste the whole time, like I would imagine anyone who 0:05:58.880 --> 0:06:02.360 writes a book like this feels extremely close to the material. Obviously, 0:06:02.400 --> 0:06:06.400 they're humongously personal elements in this book, um let alone, 0:06:06.440 --> 0:06:09.320 just based on the place that you grew up and 0:06:09.400 --> 0:06:12.680 came of age. And so I think to give it 0:06:12.720 --> 0:06:17.080 over so generously and so freely with so much trust, 0:06:17.200 --> 0:06:19.400 I mean obviously spoke to the level of trust she 0:06:19.480 --> 0:06:23.479 had with recent Carrie, but also it meant that she 0:06:23.600 --> 0:06:26.839 had a lot of trust for me and for the 0:06:26.880 --> 0:06:30.240 writing staff I put together, and it gave us a 0:06:30.240 --> 0:06:34.360 lot of freedom to not feel handcuffed by the material. 0:06:34.440 --> 0:06:38.040 But at the same time, we all love the material 0:06:38.160 --> 0:06:40.080 so much. I mean, when Silus came to set, she 0:06:40.080 --> 0:06:42.279 said that everyone had like their dog eared copies of 0:06:42.279 --> 0:06:44.320 the book. You know, everyone wanted her to sign their book. 0:06:44.520 --> 0:06:46.680 Everyone had dog eared copies of the book. Everyone had 0:06:46.680 --> 0:06:50.360 their highlighted passages. This was a book that was beloved. 0:06:50.920 --> 0:06:54.719 Um is beloved, and so I think that, um, we 0:06:54.760 --> 0:06:56.599 didn't want to honor the book because we had to. 0:06:57.240 --> 0:06:59.159 We wanted to honor the book because we wanted to 0:06:59.160 --> 0:07:02.280 honor the book because we all love the book. Yeah, 0:07:02.320 --> 0:07:04.600 And that was that was so clear from the beginning. 0:07:04.640 --> 0:07:06.640 And you made it very easy for me to trust you. 0:07:06.680 --> 0:07:08.640 I mean, really from the beginning when you came to 0:07:08.680 --> 0:07:11.240 me and we're like, I'm thinking about taking this character 0:07:11.400 --> 0:07:13.000 and kind of extending her in this way, or I'm 0:07:13.000 --> 0:07:15.400 thinking about that this character might be exploring this in 0:07:15.400 --> 0:07:18.160 one of her plotlines. It was such a such a 0:07:18.240 --> 0:07:20.760 relief for me because I again thought, oh, some of 0:07:20.760 --> 0:07:23.160 those are things that I wanted to do. Others, you know, 0:07:23.240 --> 0:07:25.080 things that you thought of, I wouldn't have it. I 0:07:25.560 --> 0:07:27.840 still just loved because I felt like they were always 0:07:28.080 --> 0:07:31.120 true to the characters, and they were always rooted in 0:07:31.400 --> 0:07:33.240 the themes of the book. And I feel like that's 0:07:33.280 --> 0:07:36.000 been true at every step of the process, that there's 0:07:36.040 --> 0:07:38.160 been such sort of love and respect for the book, 0:07:38.200 --> 0:07:41.560 and that's what allows this series to kind of take 0:07:41.600 --> 0:07:44.080 the book and move it in a very slightly different direction. 0:07:44.120 --> 0:07:46.400 It's always been really firmly rooted in, like such a 0:07:46.400 --> 0:07:48.800 deep respect for the book, and as as an author, 0:07:48.840 --> 0:07:51.400 that's it's a huge It feels like a compliment to me, 0:07:51.400 --> 0:07:53.520 but it also feels really reassuring. It kind of gives 0:07:53.520 --> 0:07:55.280 me if you're gonna go, I trust you do do 0:07:55.360 --> 0:07:57.520 what you will because I know that you're going to 0:07:57.600 --> 0:08:01.000 do something that will be faithful to the sort of 0:08:01.080 --> 0:08:04.120 soul of this this story. And so lest you mentioned 0:08:04.120 --> 0:08:06.840 things you thought about doing in the book but didn't. Uh, 0:08:06.880 --> 0:08:09.000 could you give us an example of something the show 0:08:09.080 --> 0:08:12.040 did get to do that you didn't have a real 0:08:12.160 --> 0:08:15.320 estate for in the book. Yeah. So, I mean, right 0:08:15.360 --> 0:08:17.520 up front, something that I had sort of wanted to 0:08:17.520 --> 0:08:19.800 explore in the book, but that um everyone in the 0:08:19.800 --> 0:08:22.440 show was able to explore in a different way was 0:08:22.760 --> 0:08:28.760 um MIA's ethnicity. Obviously, casting Carrie as Mia carries a 0:08:28.760 --> 0:08:32.200 black woman changes what's in the book, because in that book, 0:08:32.280 --> 0:08:34.960 Mia is not specifically marked. But I I wrote her 0:08:35.040 --> 0:08:38.559 thinking of a working class white woman. But I had 0:08:38.559 --> 0:08:42.600 wanted to make her a person of color. Originally, I 0:08:42.679 --> 0:08:46.480 had thought that that would be another way of exploring 0:08:46.520 --> 0:08:49.600 these issues of race and class and really just privilege 0:08:49.640 --> 0:08:54.199 and power. But I didn't think that I could write 0:08:54.240 --> 0:08:56.640 a black woman's experience. I didn't want to presume that 0:08:56.720 --> 0:08:59.360 I could imagine fully what that was like. And so 0:08:59.400 --> 0:09:02.720 I wrote the character of Mia as a white woman. 0:09:03.600 --> 0:09:06.320 And I was really happy when Reese and Lauren came 0:09:06.320 --> 0:09:08.960 into were thinking of casting Carry, because it meant that 0:09:09.000 --> 0:09:11.439 they were seeing the same themes in the book and 0:09:11.480 --> 0:09:13.839 that they were willing to kind of lean into that 0:09:14.400 --> 0:09:17.240 and explore those right up front, and so carry's casting 0:09:17.240 --> 0:09:20.680 obviously brings that right into the forefront of the story, right, 0:09:20.800 --> 0:09:23.600 and diversity of perspective is an important part of this 0:09:23.640 --> 0:09:28.240 show on screen and off with the production staff. So yeah, So, 0:09:28.320 --> 0:09:31.000 so last, what was your impression of the writing team 0:09:31.000 --> 0:09:35.119 on the show You visited the writer's room during production, right, Yeah. 0:09:35.440 --> 0:09:37.760 I think the room that you put together was so diverse, 0:09:37.840 --> 0:09:40.080 not just in terms of race, but in terms of background, 0:09:40.120 --> 0:09:42.400 in terms of experience, and I think it really showed 0:09:42.640 --> 0:09:44.320 when I was reading the scripts and then when I 0:09:44.360 --> 0:09:47.480 got to see them on screen, that there is such 0:09:47.480 --> 0:09:51.120 a level of nuanced understanding. Um. I remember you saying 0:09:51.120 --> 0:09:53.920 at one point that it was not like any everybody 0:09:53.920 --> 0:09:55.800 in the room brought one thing. Everybody in the room brought, 0:09:55.800 --> 0:09:59.520 you know, like five things. And it shows because these 0:09:59.559 --> 0:10:02.960 are really complex intersections of all kinds of different life 0:10:02.960 --> 0:10:05.599 situations about the race in the class and all of 0:10:05.640 --> 0:10:08.920 those kind of different intersections of all of those different 0:10:08.920 --> 0:10:12.480 sort of privileges and struggles. It shows. And I think 0:10:12.520 --> 0:10:14.600 when I got to come to the room too, it 0:10:14.679 --> 0:10:16.720 was really fascinating to see people say, well, this was 0:10:16.760 --> 0:10:19.559 my experience, but like hold on, wait, okay, what about this, Well, 0:10:19.559 --> 0:10:21.680 when you're saying this, you know that's really different. And 0:10:21.760 --> 0:10:24.480 to kind of be able to look at an issue 0:10:24.640 --> 0:10:27.240 from many, many different perspectives. I think that's part of 0:10:27.280 --> 0:10:30.440 what gives these complicated moments in the show a lot 0:10:30.440 --> 0:10:33.920 of their power. Um where nothing nobody is being flattened here, 0:10:34.400 --> 0:10:38.040 everybody is kind of being given many sort of different 0:10:38.120 --> 0:10:41.679 facets um. And that shouldn't be rare and TV, but 0:10:41.760 --> 0:10:45.360 sometimes it is, and it's really beautifully done. That's so coold. 0:10:45.480 --> 0:10:47.559 Did it make you want to be in writer's rooms? 0:10:48.600 --> 0:10:50.360 I mean I I want to be a fly on 0:10:50.440 --> 0:10:53.440 the wall in the writer's room. I learned so much 0:10:53.480 --> 0:10:56.679 as a writer because as a novelist, it's really just 0:10:56.760 --> 0:10:59.000 me like I'm here in my office and I'm alone 0:10:59.120 --> 0:11:01.400 right now, right and I get to kind of decide stuff, 0:11:01.400 --> 0:11:03.199 and I can scrap stuff, and I can make decisions. 0:11:03.559 --> 0:11:07.560 I make many bad decisions, and there's nobody to stop me. Um. 0:11:08.040 --> 0:11:11.640 So I really enjoyed seeing that kind of collaborative process. 0:11:12.120 --> 0:11:14.120 I don't know if I could do it, because I 0:11:14.120 --> 0:11:17.480 feel like I feel like it's it's such a skill 0:11:17.920 --> 0:11:20.160 to be able to talk those things out, whereas my 0:11:20.280 --> 0:11:21.920 usual method is I just sit there and stare at 0:11:21.920 --> 0:11:24.800 my computer screen and kind of uh inadvertently make faces 0:11:24.840 --> 0:11:27.360 and like tug at my hair and and then eventually 0:11:27.400 --> 0:11:30.080 maybe I come up with an idea. Um. But it 0:11:30.160 --> 0:11:32.360 gave me a new way of thinking about how to 0:11:32.400 --> 0:11:37.920 approach plot and character um, seeing the way that the 0:11:38.080 --> 0:11:41.520 room was really thinking about arc and thinking about, Okay, 0:11:41.559 --> 0:11:44.000 what is each character's are Over the course of the 0:11:44.160 --> 0:11:47.839 entire show, there was this giant rainbow colored um chart 0:11:48.040 --> 0:11:49.800 up on the wall, which I took a picture of 0:11:49.840 --> 0:11:53.920 as an inspiration for myself, um about how to kind 0:11:53.920 --> 0:11:56.679 of keep each of those threads there and make sure 0:11:56.679 --> 0:11:59.040 that nobody falls through the wayside. I mean, that was 0:11:59.080 --> 0:12:02.200 a whole different way of storytelling. And so if I 0:12:02.240 --> 0:12:05.880 could just kind of quietly eavesdrop on on you know, 0:12:06.120 --> 0:12:08.120 every writer's room in the world, that would be that 0:12:08.120 --> 0:12:12.280 would be the best. Sounds like this one pretty well. 0:12:12.600 --> 0:12:15.000 It's really been, I think a charmed experience. I mean 0:12:15.040 --> 0:12:17.160 every interview they're like, how did it go? Did you 0:12:17.200 --> 0:12:19.000 like it? Where you defensive and I always feel like 0:12:19.480 --> 0:12:21.679 there's a secret part where people sort of hope that 0:12:21.720 --> 0:12:24.480 I'll say it was horrible, because that would be you know, 0:12:24.520 --> 0:12:26.679 that's a juicy story. But the truth is that I 0:12:27.080 --> 0:12:32.440 feel like everyone working on this production, UM, really came 0:12:32.480 --> 0:12:34.960 to the book with such respect and yet also with 0:12:35.120 --> 0:12:38.800 such energy and so many ideas about how to translate 0:12:38.880 --> 0:12:43.079 it to the screen. And it was this sort of 0:12:43.120 --> 0:12:46.319 really charmed experience where, UM, I feel like it's set 0:12:46.360 --> 0:12:48.720 a really high bar for whatever I work on in 0:12:48.760 --> 0:12:51.240 the future. UM, that I'm going to kind of expect 0:12:51.360 --> 0:12:53.920 this level of sort of love for the book and 0:12:54.000 --> 0:12:57.800 this kind of synergy to happen. Um. But it's it's 0:12:57.840 --> 0:13:02.000 it's a hard example to follow because everybody did seem 0:13:02.080 --> 0:13:07.880 to be bringing their a game and it seems to 0:13:08.040 --> 0:13:11.760 have just clicked together in a really beautiful way. Yeah, 0:13:11.840 --> 0:13:15.320 I felt so you know, across the board, I felt 0:13:15.360 --> 0:13:19.640 like there was just so much passion, um and heart 0:13:19.840 --> 0:13:23.880 and it felt you know, look, it was it was 0:13:23.920 --> 0:13:26.480 a privilege to get to go into a writer's room 0:13:26.679 --> 0:13:30.680 and to be able to talk about things that felt 0:13:30.760 --> 0:13:34.640 so vital. You know, you don't sit around, especially as 0:13:35.559 --> 0:13:39.080 a white person in everyday life, talking about race and 0:13:39.120 --> 0:13:42.640 class very often. Um, you don't. You're not forced to 0:13:42.720 --> 0:13:46.120 kind of confront what you think, and you have the 0:13:46.200 --> 0:13:50.760 luxury of not thinking about it sometimes probably most of 0:13:50.800 --> 0:13:53.880 the time, and so to go into a room where 0:13:54.840 --> 0:13:57.280 that is our task, and then to also talk about 0:13:57.280 --> 0:13:59.880 through the lens of motherhood when a lot of us 0:13:59.880 --> 0:14:05.479 are mothers. I think it just it felt. It felt 0:14:05.520 --> 0:14:08.520 important in a way where I don't mean like the 0:14:08.559 --> 0:14:10.760 work is so important and the show is so important, 0:14:10.760 --> 0:14:12.640 although certainly they are to me and I hope they 0:14:12.640 --> 0:14:15.160 will be to others. I mean to say that I 0:14:15.160 --> 0:14:19.400 think the experience of doing the work felt so important, 0:14:19.960 --> 0:14:22.360 and I think the other part of it, and I 0:14:22.400 --> 0:14:24.280 hope one of the reasons that it went so well, 0:14:24.320 --> 0:14:27.880 and I believe this is that most of us are moms, 0:14:28.640 --> 0:14:31.880 and you know, moms know how to do a bunch 0:14:31.920 --> 0:14:35.080 of things, but many of which which are be efficient, 0:14:35.920 --> 0:14:40.520 um collaborate and take care of something you love, and 0:14:40.640 --> 0:14:47.240 those qualities I think are um are part of what's 0:14:47.280 --> 0:14:50.360 made this such a great experience. So I hadn't I 0:14:50.440 --> 0:14:53.000 hadn't thought about it that way, Liz, But I'm thinking that, 0:14:53.160 --> 0:14:55.960 you know, if there's a parenting lesson in the book, 0:14:56.000 --> 0:14:58.560 and it certainly is not intended to be any kind 0:14:58.600 --> 0:15:01.280 of parenting manual, and anyway, I don't want to pretend 0:15:01.320 --> 0:15:03.520 I have any answers, let alone that they're in the book. 0:15:03.800 --> 0:15:06.120 But I do think you know, one of the things 0:15:06.120 --> 0:15:07.840 I think a lot about and that works ex wain 0:15:07.920 --> 0:15:10.440 to my writing, is this idea that your child is 0:15:10.480 --> 0:15:13.160 a separate being from you, and that even when you 0:15:13.640 --> 0:15:16.320 maybe want a particular thing for them for very very 0:15:16.320 --> 0:15:18.920 good reasons, a lot of times you have to recognize 0:15:18.920 --> 0:15:20.920 that maybe that's not what they need, and you have 0:15:21.040 --> 0:15:23.640 to give them the space to get what they need 0:15:23.800 --> 0:15:26.240 and to figure out who they are. And I think 0:15:26.240 --> 0:15:29.520 there is a parallel there um, certainly for me in 0:15:29.560 --> 0:15:32.320 thinking about, here's this book, which is my baby, one 0:15:32.360 --> 0:15:34.440 of my babies, but I'm gonna let it go out 0:15:34.520 --> 0:15:38.240 and grow up into something else, right, And and I 0:15:38.240 --> 0:15:40.760 think that sharing sort of sharing a responsibility which is 0:15:40.800 --> 0:15:42.320 sort of like I'm going to support you, I'm going 0:15:42.360 --> 0:15:43.840 to push you in the ways that I think you need, 0:15:43.880 --> 0:15:45.600 but if it seems like you need something else, I'm 0:15:45.600 --> 0:15:48.400 also going to respect that. And that was the attitude 0:15:48.400 --> 0:15:51.040 that I think everybody working on this production that I've 0:15:51.080 --> 0:15:54.200 talked to had. They had ideas and visions where where 0:15:54.200 --> 0:15:56.480 I wanted to go, and then if they saw that 0:15:56.480 --> 0:15:59.280 that wasn't quite right. They were willing to core, suggest 0:15:59.360 --> 0:16:02.040 and listen to project the way I guess that you 0:16:02.400 --> 0:16:04.840 hopefully listen to your child as they start to grow 0:16:04.920 --> 0:16:06.680 up and tell you who they are and what they need. 0:16:06.960 --> 0:16:08.600 I thought about it like that, But it's actually a 0:16:08.600 --> 0:16:11.880 pretty good analogy, absolutely, I know, I think, and I 0:16:11.880 --> 0:16:15.200 I even felt that way from script form into production, 0:16:15.400 --> 0:16:17.840 into editing and now on the cusp of kind of 0:16:17.880 --> 0:16:20.520 having it out in the world, like I felt those 0:16:20.560 --> 0:16:22.480 moments too. And there is there's like a beautiful Mary 0:16:22.520 --> 0:16:24.600 Oliver quote which I won't even be able to say 0:16:24.600 --> 0:16:26.520 the whole thing, but it it has to do with like, 0:16:26.600 --> 0:16:28.400 to live in this world, you have to do three things, 0:16:28.400 --> 0:16:30.640 and one of the things I think is like holding 0:16:30.720 --> 0:16:33.720 fiercely to what's yours or what you love the most, 0:16:33.760 --> 0:16:36.760 and then when the time comes, knowing when you have 0:16:36.840 --> 0:16:39.320 to let it go. And I do feel like and 0:16:39.360 --> 0:16:41.480 I mean it res me, even though of course I 0:16:41.480 --> 0:16:44.880 have now butchered the quote, um the quote and it's 0:16:44.920 --> 0:16:48.240 and it's it's rightful place rex me and I think 0:16:48.240 --> 0:16:50.400 that there is something about this it's similar. And I 0:16:50.440 --> 0:16:52.280 know the writers felt that way when they wrote their 0:16:52.320 --> 0:16:55.240 own scripts and even just had to give them to me. Um, 0:16:55.440 --> 0:16:57.920 I know I felt that way and in giving it 0:16:57.960 --> 0:17:00.360 over too, and I'm sure of course you felt that way, 0:17:00.480 --> 0:17:04.600 celest And I think that that is a I think 0:17:04.600 --> 0:17:07.080 that that is in our in our best hopes as 0:17:07.359 --> 0:17:11.720 parents or mothers, that you can see something kind of 0:17:11.800 --> 0:17:14.320 getting its legs and taking its shape and being what 0:17:14.359 --> 0:17:17.919 it's going to become, and then helping guide it to 0:17:18.520 --> 0:17:21.919 become that without getting in its way. And I think that, um, 0:17:22.440 --> 0:17:25.720 I I think part of the reason that this experience 0:17:25.720 --> 0:17:29.760 has been so so great is because of because of 0:17:29.800 --> 0:17:32.800 the motherhood aspect, both in the story and both in 0:17:32.840 --> 0:17:35.280 the people who have who have brought it to life. 0:17:35.480 --> 0:17:39.200 You know, celest first and foremost, it's sort of recognizing 0:17:39.240 --> 0:17:41.879 that you are a big influence, but one of the 0:17:41.920 --> 0:17:45.560 influences on this thing and this thing's life, and then 0:17:45.640 --> 0:17:48.240 also giving it the space to become what it's going 0:17:48.320 --> 0:17:50.520 to be, um, even if that wasn't what you thought 0:17:50.520 --> 0:17:53.680 it was going to be originally. Yeah, yeah, totally. I 0:17:53.720 --> 0:17:57.760 was in awe of the enormous just numbers of people 0:17:58.280 --> 0:18:01.640 working on this project because this is my first experience 0:18:01.640 --> 0:18:05.359 in film, but seeing everybody kind of click in Um, 0:18:05.440 --> 0:18:07.439 everybody's got their own job, and everybody's got their own 0:18:07.440 --> 0:18:10.760 particular visions. But there's this moment where all the gears 0:18:10.800 --> 0:18:13.080 kind of clicklick, click, click, and then it'll go and 0:18:13.119 --> 0:18:15.960 they all turn a bunch, and it was pretty amazing 0:18:16.000 --> 0:18:18.480 to watch. Again, as a novelist, it's usually just me 0:18:19.280 --> 0:18:21.360 and so to get to see that kind of collaboration 0:18:21.440 --> 0:18:24.119 and that kind of collaboration working really well was was 0:18:24.200 --> 0:18:27.960 pretty stuying. That was celest Ng. We will be hearing 0:18:28.000 --> 0:18:31.280 more from in our next episode, speaking on her experience 0:18:31.359 --> 0:18:34.399 growing up in the real life Shaker Heights, Ohio in 0:18:34.440 --> 0:18:37.159 the nineties. So now you know where the page to 0:18:37.200 --> 0:18:40.600 screen process begins, and from here, Liz take a Lar 0:18:40.720 --> 0:18:45.720 becomes absolutely critical to the project. A showrunner is well, 0:18:45.960 --> 0:18:48.679 they run the show. They're involved in every facet in 0:18:48.720 --> 0:18:52.159 a creative sense, and they become the spiritual center of 0:18:52.200 --> 0:18:56.160 the project itself at every phase of production. And for 0:18:56.200 --> 0:18:59.960 a show like Little Fires Everywhere, this was no small pressure. 0:19:00.080 --> 0:19:03.360 But Liz, as you're about to hear, had more than 0:19:03.520 --> 0:19:07.439 enough heart and determination and talent to make this show 0:19:07.720 --> 0:19:11.399 something truly special. So what you're about to hear is 0:19:11.440 --> 0:19:14.199 an interview from the second time we ever met, so 0:19:14.359 --> 0:19:17.159 you will be able to hear me actively developing a 0:19:17.200 --> 0:19:22.159 friend crush on her. Hi, how are you good? How 0:19:22.200 --> 0:19:25.359 are you good? Good? Just to start things out. What 0:19:25.400 --> 0:19:30.119 I'm really curious about is adapting such a well loved work. 0:19:30.680 --> 0:19:35.200 You go into this process knowing some basic adaptation changes 0:19:35.240 --> 0:19:37.640 you want. You have your two leads, and then you're 0:19:37.640 --> 0:19:40.040 building your writer's rooms. So what were you looking for 0:19:40.160 --> 0:19:43.000 and how did you sort of build this team? So 0:19:43.119 --> 0:19:44.919 I knew it was really important to me that the 0:19:45.080 --> 0:19:47.440 ChIL landscape of the upper level writers of the room 0:19:47.640 --> 0:19:50.320 matched the book, because I felt like that's the only 0:19:50.359 --> 0:19:53.240 way that we're going to be able to encompass all 0:19:53.240 --> 0:19:56.600 the voices of the book and accurately tell the story. 0:19:56.720 --> 0:19:59.159 And so that's what I focused on putting together. But 0:19:59.200 --> 0:20:01.280 of course, as I feel used on doing that, I 0:20:01.359 --> 0:20:04.240 kept meeting with people, and every time I met with somebody, 0:20:04.440 --> 0:20:07.240 I felt like they would be perfect for the show 0:20:07.280 --> 0:20:10.520 and how could I do the show without them? And 0:20:10.600 --> 0:20:13.399 so what was going to be a maybe three person 0:20:13.520 --> 0:20:16.480 staff or maybe four ended up being a seven person 0:20:16.600 --> 0:20:20.760 staff because I just felt like I couldn't live without anybody. 0:20:20.880 --> 0:20:23.800 I actually wanted an eighth writer, but there weren't enough episodes. 0:20:24.200 --> 0:20:27.080 I knew I wanted mothers in that upper level position. 0:20:27.400 --> 0:20:30.400 I knew I wanted, not that I wasn't open to men, 0:20:31.000 --> 0:20:33.679 but it's a story about mothers, and I felt like, 0:20:33.760 --> 0:20:38.000 who better to tell it than mother's um. And so 0:20:38.600 --> 0:20:41.520 that was really what my hopes were for assembling the room. 0:20:41.600 --> 0:20:43.800 I ended up with all these wonderful writers, half of 0:20:43.840 --> 0:20:46.239 which I had worked with before, and then half of 0:20:46.240 --> 0:20:48.800 which were new to me. And we did hire one guy, 0:20:48.920 --> 0:20:52.640 Harris sano Um, because yes, he was our token man 0:20:53.000 --> 0:20:56.879 and our token white man, and he was incredible. ABC 0:20:57.119 --> 0:20:58.520 was like, don't you want one man? And I was like, 0:20:58.720 --> 0:21:00.560 does it ruin the picture? And and I'm like, it 0:21:00.640 --> 0:21:02.840 doesn't need to ruin the picture. And if there's any 0:21:02.880 --> 0:21:05.040 man who should be in this room and would thrive 0:21:05.760 --> 0:21:09.000 with all women, is Harris. And so we ended up 0:21:09.040 --> 0:21:11.600 just assembling this great room. And it was the best 0:21:11.640 --> 0:21:14.760 room I've ever been in terms of what everybody had 0:21:14.800 --> 0:21:18.560