1 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:06,880 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:12,440 Speaker 2: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch 3 00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:15,319 Speaker 2: us live weekdays at noon Eastern on Apple car Play 4 00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:18,040 Speaker 2: and then Broun Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. Listen 5 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:21,120 Speaker 2: on demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch us 6 00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:24,160 Speaker 2: live on YouTube. 7 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:29,040 Speaker 3: A very happy Friday to you. That means there's about 8 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:31,639 Speaker 3: a week left in the Supreme Court's term, with a 9 00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:34,279 Speaker 3: number of decisions yet to come down. That we did 10 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:37,239 Speaker 3: get a handful this morning, five in total. One particularly 11 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:41,000 Speaker 3: that was interesting an eight to one ruling in which 12 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:44,160 Speaker 3: the Court upheld a federal law that bans those who 13 00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:48,879 Speaker 3: have a domestic violence restraining orders from owning a firearm. 14 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:51,360 Speaker 3: The Court, interestingly, in this case, ruled that the Second 15 00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:54,040 Speaker 3: Amendment is not so broad that it protects the gun 16 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:57,320 Speaker 3: rights of those who have been found dangerous. There is 17 00:00:57,360 --> 00:01:01,440 Speaker 3: only one dissenter in this case, Justice Clarence Thomas. 18 00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:01,959 Speaker 4: For more. 19 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:03,920 Speaker 3: Now, let's go to June Grosso, who is the host 20 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:07,240 Speaker 3: of Bloomberg Gloss. So, June, I wonder if you were surprised, 21 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:09,760 Speaker 3: if not by the ruling itself, by the fact that 22 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:12,800 Speaker 3: only one disagreed with it. 23 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 4: It wasn't really surprising after hearing the oral arguments in 24 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:20,280 Speaker 4: the case and also the case. The facts in this 25 00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:22,880 Speaker 4: case were pretty egregious. It would have been hard to 26 00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:27,119 Speaker 4: say that this man, Raheemi, was it was all right 27 00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:29,039 Speaker 4: for him to have a gun, because not only was 28 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:32,360 Speaker 4: there a domestic violence restraining order against him and he 29 00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:36,120 Speaker 4: beat up his girlfriend, but he also on five different occasions, 30 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:40,959 Speaker 4: fired a gun in public. He fired an AR fifteen 31 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:44,600 Speaker 4: I think into a neighbor's house. So, I mean, the 32 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:49,919 Speaker 4: facts were really bad for this case for gun rights enthusiasts, 33 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:52,960 Speaker 4: and so the Court during oral arguments made it pretty 34 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:55,200 Speaker 4: clear that most of the justices were going to be 35 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:58,880 Speaker 4: on board with this particular restriction on gun rights. 36 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:04,760 Speaker 3: Fascinating that they perhaps had an opportunity to read the 37 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:07,200 Speaker 3: Second Amendment in the broadest of terms and shows not 38 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:09,160 Speaker 3: to do so. We got a few other decisions as 39 00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:12,119 Speaker 3: well this morning June. In one case, the Court said 40 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 3: that federal courts cannot second guest visa denials for spouses 41 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:18,919 Speaker 3: of American citizens, even if it means they can't live 42 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:21,920 Speaker 3: together in the United States. How does this interplay with 43 00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:24,840 Speaker 3: the executive order that we got from President Biden earlier 44 00:02:24,919 --> 00:02:28,200 Speaker 3: this week allowing people who are married to US citizens 45 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 3: to stay in the US to figure that process out. 46 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:35,919 Speaker 4: It really doesn't intersect with it, because what President Biden's 47 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:39,600 Speaker 4: order is about is, in other words, in a normal 48 00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:43,440 Speaker 4: case right now, if someone crosses the border illegally and 49 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:47,639 Speaker 4: then marries a US citizen in order to get citizenship, 50 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:50,600 Speaker 4: to get the papers moving the process going, that person 51 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:53,600 Speaker 4: has to go back to his or her home country 52 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:56,640 Speaker 4: and apply from there, and people don't like to do 53 00:02:56,680 --> 00:02:59,040 Speaker 4: that because it's very risky to do that, to go 54 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 4: to your consol office there. What the President's executive order 55 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:06,360 Speaker 4: said was those people, you know, anyone who's married to 56 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:10,440 Speaker 4: a US citizen can go through the process in this country. 57 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:12,799 Speaker 4: They can remain in this country while they go through 58 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:17,400 Speaker 4: the process. It didn't talk about the standard for getting 59 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:20,200 Speaker 4: you know, for being able to get a green card 60 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 4: if you're married to a US citizen. So I don't 61 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:28,000 Speaker 4: think it really, uh, you know, crosses each other. I 62 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:31,280 Speaker 4: think it's they're separate issues, but it's sort of coincidental 63 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:32,840 Speaker 4: that they came out in the same way. 64 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:36,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. I think that's maybe why people who are 65 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 3: less educated and legally minded, like yourself like me, Now 66 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 3: things work together? 67 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 4: Well, you know, it's it's it's odd because, for example, 68 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:50,280 Speaker 4: yesterday there were three cases having to do with with 69 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 4: the minor sort of criminal procedure things, and you'd say, well, 70 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:58,160 Speaker 4: three cases together, that is odd, And I wonder did 71 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:00,520 Speaker 4: the Chief Justice decide, you know, all of a sudden 72 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:04,400 Speaker 4: going to group certain cases together. I mean today, according 73 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:08,120 Speaker 4: to my you know, count, there were nineteen cases outstanding 74 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:11,560 Speaker 4: this morning and I looked at them. Fourteen of them 75 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:15,560 Speaker 4: I considered controversial, and one of them was Raheemi, But 76 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:18,279 Speaker 4: the other four that came out today were among the 77 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:22,000 Speaker 4: non controversial cases. So still, the question, which I think 78 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:25,000 Speaker 4: we discussed the other day, is you know, what are 79 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:28,200 Speaker 4: they waiting for? There's a week left. They have only 80 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:32,080 Speaker 4: one opinion day scheduled for Wednesday. I assume there'll be more. 81 00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:35,279 Speaker 4: But if at this rate, you know, will they be 82 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:38,839 Speaker 4: able to finish by Friday, which is the usual time 83 00:04:38,839 --> 00:04:39,560 Speaker 4: that they end. 84 00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:41,479 Speaker 5: Yeah? 85 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:43,480 Speaker 3: Are we going to have to see opinion days added 86 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:45,520 Speaker 3: to get these other fourteen rulings out? Are they just 87 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:48,159 Speaker 3: going to dump us on them, dump them on us 88 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:49,800 Speaker 3: all at once in June? How do you think it 89 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:52,440 Speaker 3: factors into the Court's mind that one of these days 90 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:56,120 Speaker 3: next Thursday, is a presidential debate in which Donald Trump, 91 00:04:56,200 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 3: who is a subject of one and kind of by 92 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:02,359 Speaker 3: extend two of these cases they have yet to decide. 93 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:04,920 Speaker 3: How does that factor into the Court's decision on timing? 94 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:07,600 Speaker 4: Do you think, Well, it shouldn't factor in, It shouldn't 95 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:11,280 Speaker 4: have any you know, any bearing on. But does it 96 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:13,920 Speaker 4: that's the question. And I've been talking to people because 97 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:18,479 Speaker 4: I'm always fascinated and I don't believe in conspiracy theories. 98 00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:20,760 Speaker 4: But it's odd that, you know, at the end of 99 00:05:20,839 --> 00:05:24,359 Speaker 4: each term for the last several years, we get all 100 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:28,000 Speaker 4: the controversial cases, basically all of them in the last week, 101 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:32,320 Speaker 4: sometimes the last two days of opinions. So so I 102 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:36,360 Speaker 4: do question why they haven't come out with those opinions yet. 103 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:40,280 Speaker 4: But I don't think that they're going to consider you know, oh, 104 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:44,680 Speaker 4: the you know, the debate is tomorrow, for example, on Wednesday, 105 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:47,280 Speaker 4: when they give out decisions. Oh, the debate is tomorrow. 106 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:50,200 Speaker 4: We should come out with this decision or not come 107 00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:51,919 Speaker 4: out with this decision. I mean, it shouldn't be a 108 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:55,200 Speaker 4: factor at all, But you know, it's just hard to 109 00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:58,880 Speaker 4: know because the Supreme Court there's no transparency. I mean 110 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:01,600 Speaker 4: people have been saying this for so many years. You know, 111 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:05,240 Speaker 4: we only find out about their workings when, for example, 112 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:10,560 Speaker 4: a justice his or her papers are published years and 113 00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 4: years later. We find out about their workings or from 114 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:15,800 Speaker 4: people who are behind the scenes and will you know, 115 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 4: tell you what goes on. But I mean, it's not transparent, 116 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 4: so we don't know what they're doing and how they're 117 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:24,120 Speaker 4: doing it, and why they're taking so long to do 118 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:25,200 Speaker 4: it in this case. 119 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:29,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, well perhaps one reason is that, well, there's not transparency. 120 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:31,960 Speaker 3: There's not a ton of accountability either. If you have 121 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:36,520 Speaker 3: a non lelience topics code and lifetime appointments. 122 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:39,280 Speaker 4: Not you know, some would say not any accountability because, 123 00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:41,800 Speaker 4: as you put it, even the ethics code that they 124 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:45,479 Speaker 4: you know, they announced last year we're having an ethics 125 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:48,040 Speaker 4: code and they published it and all this stuff. But 126 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:51,640 Speaker 4: they're the ones that decide each individual justice whether or 127 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:54,240 Speaker 4: not they're following their ethics code. And that's why when 128 00:06:54,279 --> 00:06:58,320 Speaker 4: we had the flap about sam Alito's flags, the Chief 129 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:01,719 Speaker 4: Justice refused to get in. He said, it's for each 130 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:06,000 Speaker 4: individual justice to decide whether or not to recuse himself 131 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:10,680 Speaker 4: or herself. So there is no accountability and almost no transparency. 132 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:14,840 Speaker 3: All right, June Grosso, host of Bloomberg Law, thanks for 133 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:17,320 Speaker 3: helping us dissect the court and breaking down these cases 134 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:19,080 Speaker 3: for us. We appreciate and we want to continue this 135 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:22,160 Speaker 3: conversation further now and bring in Robert Border, who is 136 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 3: a criminal and constitutional law attorney. Welcome back to Balance 137 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 3: of Power, sir. Great to have you. If we could 138 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:29,920 Speaker 3: just begin with one of the rulings we did get 139 00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:32,080 Speaker 3: from the court today, which I was just discussing with June. 140 00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:34,800 Speaker 3: This eight to one ruling upholding the federal ban on 141 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:38,720 Speaker 3: those under domestic violence restraining orders from owning a firearm. 142 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 3: They made the decision here that the Second Amendment did 143 00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:45,280 Speaker 3: not protect this person's rights because he was dangerous. Is 144 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:47,480 Speaker 3: that a proper constitutional reading? 145 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:48,880 Speaker 6: Oh? 146 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:53,960 Speaker 7: Absolutely, it most certainly is. You know, this doesn't conform 147 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 7: to Justice Clarence Thomas's view of the Second Amendment and 148 00:07:57,520 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 7: the Constitution, but I think it conforms to what most 149 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:02,920 Speaker 7: people in America think and what most legal scholars think. 150 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:06,280 Speaker 7: And also there was a divergence of the views because 151 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:08,920 Speaker 7: there was a lot of concurring opinions of the different 152 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:12,040 Speaker 7: justices explaining where they sit on this and this is 153 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:14,480 Speaker 7: going to be a hot issue and other cases coming up, 154 00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:19,320 Speaker 7: But this case really was the poster child for gun regulation. 155 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 7: This is a person, mister remy, who should never have 156 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:27,280 Speaker 7: a firearm in this context, and this statute was perfectly appropriate. 157 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:31,120 Speaker 3: So are you surprised that the Court could buy such 158 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:35,160 Speaker 3: a large majority to uphold this and not uphold the 159 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:39,200 Speaker 3: ban on bump stocks? Just last week they made that 160 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:43,560 Speaker 3: decision that essentially made that void. How does a reading 161 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:46,600 Speaker 3: of the Second Amendment factor in that decision differently than 162 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:49,040 Speaker 3: it did so in this case, well. 163 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:50,800 Speaker 7: It's a little hard to conform the two. I'll grant 164 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:54,360 Speaker 7: you that, you know, technically speaking, the bump stock case 165 00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:58,839 Speaker 7: had to do with the appropriate scope of regulation and 166 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:02,760 Speaker 7: what an agency can do, in this case, the Alcohol, Tobacco, 167 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:05,320 Speaker 7: and Firearm Bureau, and whether they had the power to 168 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:08,920 Speaker 7: ban something or not versus Congress passing a statute. And 169 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:12,760 Speaker 7: in this case, this was an actual federal statute that 170 00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:16,800 Speaker 7: was passed by Congress that ban people who have restraining 171 00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:20,080 Speaker 7: orders from possessing a firearm. So you can make a 172 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:23,000 Speaker 7: technical distinction on that point, but other than that, it's 173 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:27,000 Speaker 7: a little hard. I also had reviewed the oral arguments 174 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:30,240 Speaker 7: and looking where the justices came down, they all know 175 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:33,600 Speaker 7: that a violent person like this should not have a gun. Now, 176 00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:36,959 Speaker 7: the Court kind of left its declared methodology two years 177 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:39,600 Speaker 7: ago in a case called Braun, where they said you 178 00:09:39,679 --> 00:09:42,960 Speaker 7: have to have an analog back from seventeen eighty nine 179 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:46,760 Speaker 7: before you can have a gun regulation. And the Chief 180 00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:49,000 Speaker 7: Justice kind of stretched that a little bit to say, yeah, 181 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:52,280 Speaker 7: they always prevented dangerous people from having guns and whatnot, 182 00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:55,320 Speaker 7: and therefore that fits. And of course Justice Thomas called 183 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:58,240 Speaker 7: the Court out on that. I think that the Court's 184 00:09:58,559 --> 00:10:01,880 Speaker 7: decision in Braun is really a little absurd in the 185 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:05,360 Speaker 7: modern world. If you extend brawn as far as it 186 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:07,280 Speaker 7: can go, and as far as I think where Clarence 187 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:10,800 Speaker 7: Thomas would want to go, you could only regulate muskets 188 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:14,679 Speaker 7: and swords. And I don't think that's what the Constitution 189 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:17,240 Speaker 7: says or what it should say. But that's kind of 190 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:17,920 Speaker 7: where that is. 191 00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:21,679 Speaker 3: Of course, we're still waiting to hear where the Court 192 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:23,959 Speaker 3: is on a number of other fourteen in fact, other 193 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:26,640 Speaker 3: rulings they have to make, including on Donald Trump's question 194 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:29,600 Speaker 3: of presidential immunity. I'm not sure when we'll get an 195 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:31,920 Speaker 3: answer on that that, of course, is most applicable for 196 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:34,560 Speaker 3: the case brought against him here in Washington by special 197 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:37,680 Speaker 3: counsel Jack Smith. But Jack Smith brought a different case 198 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:40,679 Speaker 3: against Donald Trump as well, Robert down in Florida, where 199 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:43,480 Speaker 3: Judge Alen Cannon is presiding over at the document's case, 200 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:45,920 Speaker 3: and today Judge Cannon is holding the first in what's 201 00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:49,400 Speaker 3: going to be a multi date hearing looking into a question. 202 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:52,800 Speaker 3: Trump has raised an argument that Jack Smith was unlawfully 203 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:57,440 Speaker 3: appointed as a special counsel. Is there any legal bearing 204 00:10:57,520 --> 00:10:59,480 Speaker 3: to that argument, and if not, why is it? 205 00:10:59,520 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 1: Though? 206 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:01,520 Speaker 3: I don't think three day hearing being held on it. 207 00:11:02,679 --> 00:11:04,959 Speaker 7: Well, that's the open question. Why is there a hearing 208 00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:08,600 Speaker 7: like this on an argument that should not get that 209 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:11,520 Speaker 7: much attention. That's not to say that Judge Cannon may 210 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:15,040 Speaker 7: not grant Trump what he wants. Realize, this whole argument 211 00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:18,040 Speaker 7: was raised during the employment of Robert Mueller years ago, 212 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:22,520 Speaker 7: and it's been floated around in certain conservative legal circles 213 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:26,960 Speaker 7: as a potential argument. It's a pretty weak argument. I mean, 214 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:30,400 Speaker 7: the essence of the argument is that anybody appointed to 215 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:33,040 Speaker 7: prosecute cases like this has to have some kind of 216 00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:35,800 Speaker 7: review by Congress and appointed by the Senate or confirmed 217 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:36,960 Speaker 7: by the Senate, etc. 218 00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:37,440 Speaker 2: Etc. 219 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:42,520 Speaker 7: And that's just absurd. I mean, there are hundreds of prosecutors, 220 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:46,560 Speaker 7: if not thousands, appointed by the Attorney General in this case, 221 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 7: Merrick Garland, to fulfill the job of prosecuting federal cases. 222 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:53,960 Speaker 7: This just happens to be a special prosecutor. And the 223 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:56,480 Speaker 7: argument that it has to have some special kind of 224 00:11:56,520 --> 00:12:00,000 Speaker 7: incantation before the Attorney General can appoint a special process 225 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:04,079 Speaker 7: is I think simply a weak argument. The fact that 226 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:07,400 Speaker 7: Judge Cannon has given it this amount of time shows 227 00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:10,600 Speaker 7: that she's slow walking the entire case, and she's doing 228 00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:14,000 Speaker 7: something even extraordinary. Look, you raise a legal argument in 229 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:16,880 Speaker 7: a criminal trial, which I've done thousands of times in 230 00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:19,240 Speaker 7: my career. You go in and you argue the case, 231 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:21,880 Speaker 7: and the prosecutor argues against it one side and the other. 232 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:27,680 Speaker 7: She has invited independent groups to come in and present 233 00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:30,240 Speaker 7: arguments on this question, which is going to extend this 234 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:33,360 Speaker 7: thing for days when it should be a simple decision 235 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:35,240 Speaker 7: on her part that she should actually just read the 236 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:38,320 Speaker 7: pleadings and deny it. But this is going to extend it, 237 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:41,679 Speaker 7: which quite frankly, is exactly what Donald Trump wants. He 238 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:44,800 Speaker 7: just wants this continued. He thinks he becomes president of 239 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:48,320 Speaker 7: the United States. I mean, he just fires Jack Smith 240 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:49,400 Speaker 7: and the whole thing goes away. 241 00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:53,240 Speaker 3: So it all becomes a question of the timeline. And 242 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:55,480 Speaker 3: given you just said that ailing Cannon in your mind 243 00:12:55,559 --> 00:12:57,840 Speaker 3: is slow walking this, it also raises the question though, 244 00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:02,200 Speaker 3: if Jack Smith too too slowly, both in that case 245 00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:04,520 Speaker 3: in Florida and the case here in Washington, did he 246 00:13:04,679 --> 00:13:06,960 Speaker 3: just bring them too late, too close for the election, 247 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:10,640 Speaker 3: that there was too much margin for error on that timeline. 248 00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:14,640 Speaker 7: Oh, absolutely not. I think Jack Smith prepared a careful 249 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:19,120 Speaker 7: indictment after doing careful investigation. There was plenty of time 250 00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:21,880 Speaker 7: to have tried these cases, and in fact, this case 251 00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:24,800 Speaker 7: should have gone to trial months ago but for Judge 252 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 7: Cannons agreeing to give massive hearings to what our throwaway 253 00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:33,720 Speaker 7: issues from the defense. If it wasn't for the judge 254 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:36,120 Speaker 7: delaying this, this case would have already been tried, as 255 00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:39,400 Speaker 7: would the other. So really, I think this is just 256 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:42,320 Speaker 7: all on the judge. I think this is a judge 257 00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:46,360 Speaker 7: who is not fair, and she has shown herself to 258 00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:49,720 Speaker 7: be an above her head, and so she's having all 259 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:52,840 Speaker 7: these long arguments, etc. And this case certainly could have brought. 260 00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:57,040 Speaker 7: I have tried more complicated cases than these, which have 261 00:13:57,160 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 7: gone to trial within a few weeks or months, and 262 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:03,920 Speaker 7: not have to have this absurd delay that basically gives 263 00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:06,120 Speaker 7: the defense exactly what the defense wants, not a win, 264 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:07,360 Speaker 7: but a delay. 265 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:10,360 Speaker 3: Robert, we just have about a minute left. But should 266 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:13,640 Speaker 3: this case have been brought in Washington rather than in Florida. 267 00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:17,000 Speaker 7: Well, I'm guessing a lot of people on the Smith 268 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:21,080 Speaker 7: team are thinking exactly that. The general custom is that 269 00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:25,360 Speaker 7: you bring the case and the citus where the event occurred. 270 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:30,080 Speaker 7: But there is federal jurisdiction, especially because of the nature 271 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:32,800 Speaker 7: of these documents being of national scope, that he could 272 00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:36,240 Speaker 7: have brought them in the district of Columbia, or in 273 00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:39,680 Speaker 7: other districts adjacent or various other parts because of the 274 00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:42,760 Speaker 7: national nature. Yes, he could have done that, and he 275 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:45,640 Speaker 7: may be thinking he should have done it. But this 276 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:47,360 Speaker 7: is the case we have, and this is the judge 277 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:48,200 Speaker 7: that we're stuck with. 278 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 3: Yep, too late now, Robert mcbordor Criminal and Constitutional Law Attorney, 279 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:55,480 Speaker 3: thank you so much as always for joining us here 280 00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:57,480 Speaker 3: on balance of power. We appreciate it. And of course, 281 00:14:57,520 --> 00:15:00,480 Speaker 3: while all of these different legal challenges for Donald Trump 282 00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:02,920 Speaker 3: continued to play out. They do so in the context 283 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:06,520 Speaker 3: of an ongoing presidential campaign, and yet Donald Trump is 284 00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 3: making a lot of money off these legal issues, his 285 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:12,400 Speaker 3: conviction netting him a nice fundraising hall in the month 286 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:15,040 Speaker 3: of May, and Joe Biden's is not looking as strong 287 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:16,040 Speaker 3: in comparison. 288 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:21,240 Speaker 2: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast keeps 289 00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:24,200 Speaker 2: just live weekdays at noon Eastern on Apple CarPlay and 290 00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:26,760 Speaker 2: then roud Oro with the Bloomberg Business App. You can 291 00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:30,040 Speaker 2: also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New 292 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:33,720 Speaker 2: York station, Just Say Alexa Play Bloomberg eleven thirty. 293 00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:39,560 Speaker 3: We've got fresh figures from the Federal Election Commission. And 294 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:41,720 Speaker 3: what a story those numbers tell. This is for the 295 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:44,640 Speaker 3: month of May, and there was a wide fundraising gap 296 00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:48,280 Speaker 3: between Joe Biden and Donald Trump. For his part, Biden, 297 00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:52,040 Speaker 3: together with the DNC, raised eighty five million dollars last month, 298 00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:55,240 Speaker 3: while Trump and the RNC, powered in part by a 299 00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:58,520 Speaker 3: galvanizing of his base after his criminal conviction in New 300 00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:02,880 Speaker 3: York last month, pulled in a significantly more robust one 301 00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:06,280 Speaker 3: hundred and forty one million dollars. So here with more 302 00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:09,040 Speaker 3: on the numbers and their significance is Bloomberg's Gregory Cordy. 303 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:12,440 Speaker 3: He is Bloomberg Senior White House and Politics correspondent joining 304 00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:16,200 Speaker 3: me here in our DC studio. So, Gregory, obviously, if 305 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:18,800 Speaker 3: you're the Biden campaign, eighty five million dollars isn't a 306 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:22,080 Speaker 3: small amount. In fact, is actually significantly larger than they 307 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:25,600 Speaker 3: raised in April. It's just that it's smaller than Trump. 308 00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:28,440 Speaker 3: So what happens if it just begins to establish a 309 00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:30,840 Speaker 3: pattern that's a reverse of what we'd seen so far, 310 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:33,200 Speaker 3: the cycle Biden not raising Trump. Now it's the other 311 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:33,760 Speaker 3: way around. 312 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:36,600 Speaker 8: Yeah, two months ago, I think you and I were 313 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:38,760 Speaker 8: sitting here and we were talking about how, you know, 314 00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:41,560 Speaker 8: it was Trump who had all the fundraising problems. He 315 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:45,600 Speaker 8: had been relying on small dollar donors. He had squeezed 316 00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:47,680 Speaker 8: all the blood he could out of that turnip. We 317 00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:51,000 Speaker 8: were talking about donor fatigue. People just can't keep giving 318 00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:55,160 Speaker 8: Trump money, whereas Biden was doing pretty well among those 319 00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:58,320 Speaker 8: small dollar donors and among the big donors as well. 320 00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:01,680 Speaker 8: And boy, two months later, it does look like we're 321 00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:03,920 Speaker 8: looking at the mirror image of that. And what changed, 322 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:07,040 Speaker 8: As you point out, I think, certainly and We've seen 323 00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:11,520 Speaker 8: this all along. Trump's legal issues have become a galvanizing 324 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:15,520 Speaker 8: force for his supporters. So if you're Joe Biden and 325 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:19,480 Speaker 8: you've lost the fundraising race two consecutive months now, you've 326 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:23,920 Speaker 8: got to be looking towards June and July when former 327 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:26,080 Speaker 8: President Trump is going to go back to that courtroom 328 00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:28,840 Speaker 8: again to be sentenced, And you kind of have to think, 329 00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:32,560 Speaker 8: the more severe the sentence, the better the fundraising bonanza 330 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:35,280 Speaker 8: it's going to be for Donald Trump. And now we're 331 00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:37,760 Speaker 8: talking about a whole new ballgame in terms of the 332 00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:39,360 Speaker 8: ability to raise and spend money. 333 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:41,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, do you see something in July eleventh and the 334 00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:43,399 Speaker 3: forty eight hours after like we saw at the end 335 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:45,480 Speaker 3: of May with that conviction. Also keeping in mind that 336 00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:49,000 Speaker 3: immediately following is the RNC something that also could be 337 00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:51,479 Speaker 3: a galvanizing force. You mentioned though, this idea that there 338 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:54,960 Speaker 3: is a difference between those grassroots, small dollar donors and 339 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:57,080 Speaker 3: the big guys, the big fish, the billionaires who we 340 00:17:57,119 --> 00:17:58,960 Speaker 3: also like to pay a lot of attention to here 341 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:02,560 Speaker 3: at Bloomberg. All the billionaires that seem to be on 342 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:05,040 Speaker 3: the sidelines not really willing to throw in for Donald 343 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:08,240 Speaker 3: Trump no longer seemed to have as many reservations, and 344 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:10,119 Speaker 3: they're starting to put money in the pot. 345 00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:13,960 Speaker 8: Yeah, we saw this during the primaries, where a lot 346 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:17,800 Speaker 8: of those names were looking for some kind of alternative, 347 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:22,280 Speaker 8: you know, a more business friendly face on Trump. Is 348 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:26,399 Speaker 8: somebody who could beat Joe Biden. Certainly there's not a 349 00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:30,159 Speaker 8: whole lot of love for Joe Biden's economic policies and 350 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:33,320 Speaker 8: his tax policies on Wall Street, he's talking about a 351 00:18:33,359 --> 00:18:37,639 Speaker 8: billionaire attack, right, and so, but they were looking for 352 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:40,119 Speaker 8: somebody who they thought could beat Biden and maybe was 353 00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:45,119 Speaker 8: a little bit more smoke their language, right that that 354 00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:48,399 Speaker 8: ship has sailed. Trump is going to be the nominee 355 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:53,160 Speaker 8: at the convention in Milwaukee next month, barring some completely 356 00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:56,240 Speaker 8: unforeseen circumstance. And so, yeah, they're rallying around the guy 357 00:18:56,280 --> 00:18:59,320 Speaker 8: that they think can be Biden as flawed as they 358 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:00,119 Speaker 8: perceive him. To me. 359 00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:04,480 Speaker 3: Of course, raising money from wherever you do is one thing. 360 00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:07,359 Speaker 3: Spending it is something else. How are we likely to 361 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:11,480 Speaker 3: see spending behavior change for both campaigns given the fundraising 362 00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:12,800 Speaker 3: trends though, received. 363 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:16,159 Speaker 8: Yeah, I'm going to be looking very closely at Trump's 364 00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:19,159 Speaker 8: spending in the next few weeks because one of the 365 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:21,480 Speaker 8: things we've seen is, you know, Biden has been out there. 366 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:25,960 Speaker 8: Biden and the Democrats have been on TV in all 367 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:28,720 Speaker 8: or most of the swing states, especially Pennsylvania for the 368 00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:32,080 Speaker 8: past few months. They've actually longer than that. Beginning the 369 00:19:32,119 --> 00:19:34,120 Speaker 8: beginning of last year, they were up in the air 370 00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:38,679 Speaker 8: on a lot of these swing states. Trump was on 371 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:42,439 Speaker 8: the air during the Republican primaries in Iowa and New 372 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:46,600 Speaker 8: Hampshire in South Carolina. After South Carolina he quinched the nomination, 373 00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:49,000 Speaker 8: we didn't really hear from and he has not really 374 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:51,760 Speaker 8: cut a new ad anywhere that we've seen on TV 375 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:56,159 Speaker 8: since then. Biden has continued not only to advertise in 376 00:19:56,200 --> 00:20:00,600 Speaker 8: real time, but also to reserve time in September October. 377 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:02,960 Speaker 8: That's going to be very important as we get to 378 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:06,720 Speaker 8: those last weeks of the campaign, because there's gonna be 379 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:09,199 Speaker 8: a real scarcity of ad time to be bought, and 380 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:12,280 Speaker 8: so campaigns generally like to get that time reserved and 381 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:15,760 Speaker 8: booked and put down their deposit well in advance to 382 00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:17,960 Speaker 8: make sure that they can be on the air because 383 00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:21,080 Speaker 8: in a state like Nevada, you will not see a 384 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:23,800 Speaker 8: non political ad in the month of October. A car 385 00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:27,560 Speaker 8: dealers Mattress companies won't be able to buy a spot 386 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:30,800 Speaker 8: because it's just gonna be so jam packed with political ads, 387 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:34,400 Speaker 8: and so we need to start watching to see who 388 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:35,920 Speaker 8: starts to put their markers down. 389 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:39,200 Speaker 3: It raises the question, though, of what it's all worth. 390 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:41,520 Speaker 3: Why even spend the money on the ads when these 391 00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:44,880 Speaker 3: are two candidates who have probably as close to perfection 392 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:47,720 Speaker 3: in terms of name ID as any two before them. 393 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:50,439 Speaker 3: It's a former president and a current president. Right, you 394 00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:54,240 Speaker 3: don't need to buy the name ID, So what do 395 00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:56,640 Speaker 3: you what can you buy? If not that? 396 00:20:56,640 --> 00:21:00,320 Speaker 8: That's a really really good point, Kaylee. And the not 397 00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:03,080 Speaker 8: only is this going to be the most expensive election 398 00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:06,320 Speaker 8: campaign ever, but we could probably expect it to be 399 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:09,280 Speaker 8: the most negative ever. And it's precisely because of what 400 00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:12,920 Speaker 8: you're talking about. It's not just about defining your opponent, 401 00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:16,520 Speaker 8: but because these guys are so well known, there's not 402 00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:19,800 Speaker 8: a whole lot new that you can say about Trump's 403 00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:22,440 Speaker 8: policies or Biden's policies. It's going to move the needle here. 404 00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:25,399 Speaker 8: The ads have to be that the other candidate is 405 00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:29,640 Speaker 8: completely disqualified, right, Biden because of his age, Trump because 406 00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:33,040 Speaker 8: of his criminal convictions. And that's what we're going to 407 00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:38,120 Speaker 8: be hearing about from now until November, because it's not 408 00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:40,720 Speaker 8: these aren't comparison ads. These aren't while this guy is 409 00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:43,640 Speaker 8: marginally better than the other on this policy or on 410 00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:48,600 Speaker 8: this character attribute. It's that this guy is we cannot 411 00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:49,959 Speaker 8: trust this guy to around the country. 412 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:52,680 Speaker 3: And certainly after Donald Trump's conviction, you saw the Biden 413 00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:56,520 Speaker 3: campaign almost immediately rolling out an ad that calls into 414 00:21:56,720 --> 00:21:59,359 Speaker 3: focus the idea that Donald Trump is a convicted felon, 415 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:02,159 Speaker 3: so immediately trying to capitalize on it's going to be 416 00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:05,119 Speaker 3: really negative to your point, Gregory, Gregory Courty Bloomberg, Senior 417 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:09,040 Speaker 3: Washington Or White House and Politics correspondent, Rather, thank you 418 00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:11,520 Speaker 3: so much for joining me in studio. Now, some other 419 00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:13,920 Speaker 3: messaging we have seen from the Biden campaign thus far 420 00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:16,919 Speaker 3: not only surrounds Donald Trump being unqualified for office, but 421 00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:20,160 Speaker 3: the idea that if Trump is re elected or gets 422 00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:21,960 Speaker 3: a second turn at the White House, he also would 423 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:26,080 Speaker 3: have the power to potentially nominate more conservative Supreme Court justices, 424 00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:28,520 Speaker 3: and the Supreme Court certainly is in focus as we 425 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:30,760 Speaker 3: are in the final stretch here of this term, just 426 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:33,280 Speaker 3: one week to go, fourteen opinions that they still have 427 00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:37,160 Speaker 3: to hand down, and they drink Drop five today. One 428 00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:42,000 Speaker 3: of them particularly interesting an eight to one decision to 429 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:45,359 Speaker 3: uphold the ban on a federal law that bars people 430 00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:49,879 Speaker 3: under domestic violence restraining orders from owning a firearm. So 431 00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:51,439 Speaker 3: we want to get more on this case, in the 432 00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:53,399 Speaker 3: cases that we have yet to get a ruling on, 433 00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:55,919 Speaker 3: and bring in Elizabeth Widress. She is president of the 434 00:22:55,920 --> 00:23:00,359 Speaker 3: Constitutional Accountability Center and a Supreme Court litigator. Elizabeth, Welcome 435 00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:02,040 Speaker 3: back to Balance of Power. Great to have you here 436 00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:05,119 Speaker 3: on Bloomberg TV and Radio. What the Court decided in 437 00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:08,560 Speaker 3: this gun case specifically was that there isn't a way 438 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:11,800 Speaker 3: to read the Second Amendment so broadly to allow for 439 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:15,280 Speaker 3: someone who has been found to be dangerous to own 440 00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:18,640 Speaker 3: a gun. Is that constitutionally sound? 441 00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:22,760 Speaker 9: Absolutely so, As you noted, the case was eight to 442 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:27,040 Speaker 9: one only just as Thomas dissented, and that really shows 443 00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:30,760 Speaker 9: the I think the soundness of the constitutional analysis finding 444 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:34,680 Speaker 9: this regulation of domestic abusers to be constitutional, and also 445 00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:39,000 Speaker 9: just the common sense behind it. You know, the Second 446 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:44,160 Speaker 9: Amendment obviously states a constitutional right. The Supreme Court has 447 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:47,639 Speaker 9: held that that right is not unlimited. And although the 448 00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:50,560 Speaker 9: Supreme Court two years ago, in a case out of 449 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:53,440 Speaker 9: New York called Bruin said that there had to be 450 00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:58,479 Speaker 9: some sort of historical similarity in order for a present 451 00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:02,800 Speaker 9: day gun regulation constitutional muster. There didn't need to be 452 00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:07,159 Speaker 9: an exact historical twin. And Chief Justice Roberts in the 453 00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:10,640 Speaker 9: opinion that was released today, said that in that Bruined 454 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:14,000 Speaker 9: decision from two years ago, they weren't trying to create. 455 00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:15,879 Speaker 3: A law trapped in amber. 456 00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:19,560 Speaker 9: That there could be circumstances when there wasn't an exact 457 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:24,680 Speaker 9: historical twin, like in this case with domestic abusers, and 458 00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:27,800 Speaker 9: that didn't mean that the law must be struck down. 459 00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:32,560 Speaker 9: If it fit with the purposes and the traditions that 460 00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:36,520 Speaker 9: went into firearm regulation at the time of the founding 461 00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:39,400 Speaker 9: and the drafting of the Second Amendment, then it could 462 00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:42,920 Speaker 9: be constitutional. And here the Court said, yes, this restriction 463 00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:48,320 Speaker 9: on domestic abusers having firearms is constitutional under the Second Amendment. 464 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:52,119 Speaker 3: Elizabeth, Surely there are people out there who may just 465 00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:54,880 Speaker 3: have some questions around the idea that the Court could 466 00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:58,399 Speaker 3: rule this way by such a wide majority, as we 467 00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:01,639 Speaker 3: pointed out eight to one case involving guns, having just 468 00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:05,080 Speaker 3: last week shot down the federal ban on bump stocks. 469 00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:07,679 Speaker 3: And if all of this surrounds the idea of danger, 470 00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:09,760 Speaker 3: something that could be attached to a weapon making it 471 00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:14,520 Speaker 3: more dangerous. How are these cases so separate, if you will, 472 00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:17,160 Speaker 3: that the Court could rule so differently on each of them. 473 00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:20,199 Speaker 9: Well, that's a really good question, and I think that 474 00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:23,199 Speaker 9: it's correct for the American people to be watching the 475 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:26,359 Speaker 9: Supreme Court and scratching their heads a little bit. You know, 476 00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:29,840 Speaker 9: I think that there should be no mistake. This Court 477 00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:36,360 Speaker 9: and its very conservative majority, has been very pro Second Amendment, 478 00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:40,440 Speaker 9: has looked extremely skeptically on gun regulations, and we saw 479 00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:43,600 Speaker 9: that in the bump stock case, where you know, if 480 00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:46,399 Speaker 9: you read the dessense of the more liberal justices, common 481 00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:50,200 Speaker 9: sense would seem to suggest a different ruling in that case, 482 00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:53,320 Speaker 9: as well as an analysis of the text and history 483 00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:56,359 Speaker 9: of the relevant provisions. You know, I think what makes 484 00:25:56,920 --> 00:26:00,760 Speaker 9: the case today about domestic abusers different is that it 485 00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:04,280 Speaker 9: is such an extreme argument. You know, you have a 486 00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:09,879 Speaker 9: person who is subject to a domestic violence restraining order 487 00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:14,639 Speaker 9: who has been found to pose a physical threat to 488 00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:18,960 Speaker 9: another person and therefore is going to be disarmed under 489 00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:23,000 Speaker 9: that restraining order. You know, this is a very extreme 490 00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:29,320 Speaker 9: case of someone seeking to or presenting a clear threat 491 00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:33,679 Speaker 9: of physical harm and that's why the gun can be 492 00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:36,359 Speaker 9: taken away or the firearms can be taken away. And 493 00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:40,800 Speaker 9: the Court today looked through historical analogs that showed that 494 00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:45,359 Speaker 9: when there's a clear threat of physical violence, people can 495 00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:50,040 Speaker 9: be disarmed consistent with the right to keep in bare arms. 496 00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:53,400 Speaker 9: One thing I thought was interesting that, just as Sotomayora 497 00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:57,480 Speaker 9: noted in her concurring opinion, she agreed with the majority, 498 00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:01,760 Speaker 9: but also wrote to separately say you, part of the 499 00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:03,800 Speaker 9: reason why you don't want to look for a historical 500 00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:07,840 Speaker 9: twin back to the seventeen hundreds is that you know 501 00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:12,560 Speaker 9: there are differences importantly in how society has evolved today. 502 00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:14,640 Speaker 9: In fact, if you look to the time of the founding, 503 00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:18,320 Speaker 9: you're probably much more likely to find legal protections for 504 00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:25,600 Speaker 9: spouses who abuse their wives and not accountability. And so 505 00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:28,800 Speaker 9: the fact that today the Court said, look, we're looking 506 00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:31,919 Speaker 9: at the principles, We're looking at the reasons behind why 507 00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:35,600 Speaker 9: the Second Amendment could be consistent with disarming a person 508 00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:37,760 Speaker 9: who poses a threat. That's the key point. 509 00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:41,720 Speaker 3: Well, there's also the question of the Court having to 510 00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:44,920 Speaker 3: rule on situations for which there is no historical precedent, 511 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:50,160 Speaker 3: like a former president being accused of many felonies and 512 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:53,000 Speaker 3: claiming presidential immunity. That is a decision we have yet 513 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:54,479 Speaker 3: to get out of this court. They need to do 514 00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:57,040 Speaker 3: so within the next week, Elizabeth. And it's raised a 515 00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:59,919 Speaker 3: lot of questions for people about timing, knowing that the 516 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:03,200 Speaker 3: but the ability for this particular case here in Washington 517 00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:06,320 Speaker 3: to go to trial before the election in November really 518 00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:08,960 Speaker 3: does hinge on an outcome here for the Supreme Court. 519 00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:11,200 Speaker 3: What do you make of the idea that we've waited 520 00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:13,000 Speaker 3: so long to get an answer and we'll wait at 521 00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:13,840 Speaker 3: least days more. 522 00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:18,399 Speaker 9: Still, the timing is absolutely key for this decision. You know, 523 00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:20,800 Speaker 9: the Court could have taken the could have taken the 524 00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:25,600 Speaker 9: issue up earlier. Jack Smith, representing the United States and 525 00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:28,800 Speaker 9: his role of Special Council, brought it to the Court earlier, 526 00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:31,639 Speaker 9: saying please rule on this so we can move forward 527 00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:33,440 Speaker 9: with our case and the interests of justice and the 528 00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:38,040 Speaker 9: American people can have some resolution before the election and 529 00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:41,520 Speaker 9: the interests of democracy. The Court said, no, we want 530 00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:44,440 Speaker 9: to wait. Then the Court did take up the case, 531 00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:52,280 Speaker 9: they scheduled expedited argument date and then we've waited. And 532 00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:56,960 Speaker 9: it seemed from the oral argument and just from the 533 00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:00,360 Speaker 9: weight of the scholarship and the legal precedent that President 534 00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:05,400 Speaker 9: Trump's immunity arguments will fail as a substantive matter. They're 535 00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:08,440 Speaker 9: extraordinary arguments that would place him above the law in 536 00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:12,040 Speaker 9: a way that has never been before countenanced in our 537 00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:16,560 Speaker 9: American legal system and constitutional democracy. So the fact that 538 00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:20,120 Speaker 9: the court hasn't issued that decision, you know, it could 539 00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:26,120 Speaker 9: basically give former President Trump a win through timing, even 540 00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:28,480 Speaker 9: if he doesn't get a win on the merits. 541 00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:32,560 Speaker 3: Of course, you raise special counsel Jack Smith. He not 542 00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:34,920 Speaker 3: only brought that case against Trump here in Washington, he 543 00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:37,600 Speaker 3: also brought the case down in Florida, the Document's case, 544 00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:40,320 Speaker 3: and in Florida. Today, Elizabeth, before we let you go, 545 00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:42,440 Speaker 3: Judge Aileen Cannon is holding the first in what is 546 00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:45,520 Speaker 3: going to be multiple days of hearings related to an 547 00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:47,840 Speaker 3: argument that Trump and his defense had brought that Special 548 00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:52,600 Speaker 3: Counsel Jack Smith was unlawfully appointed as such, Is there 549 00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:54,600 Speaker 3: any reading of the law that would suggest that he 550 00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:56,280 Speaker 3: was not appointed in accordance with it? 551 00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:00,280 Speaker 9: You know, I think this is a desperate attempt by 552 00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:05,600 Speaker 9: the Trump legal team to again create more delays, Although 553 00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:09,960 Speaker 9: it seems like that case is perpetually delayed, there's really 554 00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:12,440 Speaker 9: no there there in that case. I think a lot 555 00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:15,360 Speaker 9: of what he's doing with some of his legal strategy 556 00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:20,040 Speaker 9: is again these delay tactics, which frankly have been fairly 557 00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:22,880 Speaker 9: successful for him in running out the clock in other cases. 558 00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:27,720 Speaker 3: And of course, judging Lin Cannon, we should point out 559 00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:30,560 Speaker 3: was a Trump appointee, just as there are multiple justices 560 00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:32,880 Speaker 3: sitting on the Supreme Court who are Trump appointees. When 561 00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:34,880 Speaker 3: you look at the delay in that case in Florida, 562 00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:36,200 Speaker 3: when you look at the delay all the way up 563 00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:39,960 Speaker 3: to the highest court in the land, Elizabeth Should people 564 00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:43,720 Speaker 3: not feel that courts are political even if they're not 565 00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:46,960 Speaker 3: supposed to be, or is it impossible to separate the 566 00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:48,080 Speaker 3: two in the modern day. 567 00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:53,080 Speaker 9: I think it is getting increasingly difficult for the American 568 00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:58,360 Speaker 9: people to separate politics from justice, and that is deeply unfortunate, 569 00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:02,560 Speaker 9: because it's really shortant for the judiciary to have the 570 00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:05,680 Speaker 9: faith and trust from the people that there will be 571 00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:09,200 Speaker 9: impartial justice, that there will be equal justice under the 572 00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:13,080 Speaker 9: law for all, regardless of whether you're the most powerful 573 00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:17,000 Speaker 9: or the most vulnerable. And I think we saw the 574 00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:20,400 Speaker 9: American public's faith in the court plummet with the Dobbs 575 00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:24,400 Speaker 9: decision over ruling Roe versus Wade, and a lot of 576 00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:27,920 Speaker 9: these delays I think in this Trump case are not 577 00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:31,280 Speaker 9: really helping build back trust in the Court, as well 578 00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:36,040 Speaker 9: as some of the ethics potential violations that have been 579 00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:40,440 Speaker 9: in the news and the Court's continued refusal to enact 580 00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:43,120 Speaker 9: a binding code of ethics. They have a voluntary code 581 00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:45,240 Speaker 9: of ethics that was put in place this term but 582 00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:48,160 Speaker 9: doesn't really seem to be giving the public much more 583 00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:51,080 Speaker 9: confidence in the Court. So there is a real crisis 584 00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:53,880 Speaker 9: of confidence in the Court and it's extremely troubling. 585 00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:57,400 Speaker 3: All Right, Elizabeth wid you're a Constitutional Accountability Center president 586 00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:00,280 Speaker 3: and Supreme Court leader litigator. Thank you for joining us 587 00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:01,720 Speaker 3: here on Balance of Power. 588 00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:07,000 Speaker 2: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch 589 00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:10,120 Speaker 2: us live weekdays at noon Eastern on Apocarplay and then 590 00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:13,200 Speaker 2: Proud Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. Listen on demand 591 00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:19,120 Speaker 2: wherever you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube. 592 00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:22,760 Speaker 3: So we have the mayfund raising figures from the FEC. 593 00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:25,160 Speaker 3: They've hiden in the last twenty four hours, and this 594 00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:27,760 Speaker 3: is the money game in the presidential election cycle that 595 00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:30,960 Speaker 3: could ultimately help decide its outcome. In the month of May, 596 00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:35,320 Speaker 3: Donald Trump outraised Biden again. This is the second month 597 00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:37,840 Speaker 3: in a row that it has happened after the reverse 598 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:42,120 Speaker 3: being true for basically the duration of the cycle through April. 599 00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:45,560 Speaker 3: In May, Donald Trump and the RNC pulled in one 600 00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:48,400 Speaker 3: hundred and forty one million dollars. A lot of that 601 00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:50,960 Speaker 3: came after Donald Trump's criminal conviction in New York on 602 00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:54,720 Speaker 3: thirty four felon accounts of falsifying business records. For Biden 603 00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:59,280 Speaker 3: and the DNC, they raked in eighty five million dollars, 604 00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:02,360 Speaker 3: not a small but still more than fifty million dollars 605 00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:05,960 Speaker 3: less than what Trump and Republicans could do. So let's 606 00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:08,040 Speaker 3: get right to it with our political panel. Rick Davis 607 00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:10,800 Speaker 3: stone Court Capital Partner is with me and Jeanie Shanzay 608 00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:13,200 Speaker 3: and know she is senior Democracy Fellow with the Center 609 00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:16,560 Speaker 3: for the Study of the Presidency and Congress, our signature 610 00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:19,880 Speaker 3: political panel on this Friday. So Genie, first to you, 611 00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:23,760 Speaker 3: if you are inside the Biden campaign, are you panicking 612 00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:27,440 Speaker 3: at these numbers right now? In the cash cushion dwindling rapidly? 613 00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:31,760 Speaker 5: It's certainly not the trajectory you want to go in 614 00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:34,959 Speaker 5: for the second month but if we put it in perspective, 615 00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:37,320 Speaker 5: they say they've raised about five hundred and fifty eight 616 00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:41,520 Speaker 5: million dollars in this cycle. That is record breaking for Democrats. 617 00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:44,920 Speaker 5: So they are both taking in big money. But I 618 00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:47,000 Speaker 5: do think it is a wake up call for the 619 00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:50,280 Speaker 5: Democratic team and the reality of the fact that for 620 00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:53,200 Speaker 5: all those on the left who thought that a convicted 621 00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:58,440 Speaker 5: felon could not lead the opposition party and these types 622 00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:01,960 Speaker 5: of numbers, both the fund raising and the polls quite frankly, 623 00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:04,520 Speaker 5: are giving lie to that. So this is a wake 624 00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:07,480 Speaker 5: up call for Democrats. That said, they've raised a lot 625 00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:10,600 Speaker 5: of money and they will keep doing that and maybe 626 00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:13,160 Speaker 5: given the last two months, they'll raise even more. And 627 00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:17,760 Speaker 5: also importantly, they've raised small dollar numbers over what Donald 628 00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:20,359 Speaker 5: Trump has done, who's raising from million and billionaires. 629 00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:23,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a really good point. You're seeing the big 630 00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:26,120 Speaker 3: money coming in in a more material way. But of course, 631 00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:28,680 Speaker 3: when we're considering what happened that month, again, a lot 632 00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:31,680 Speaker 3: of this where it came after his conviction in New York. 633 00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:34,000 Speaker 3: In fact, there was one donor who gave fifty million 634 00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:39,040 Speaker 3: dollars to the MAGA super pack after that happened. It 635 00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:42,360 Speaker 3: raises the question of whether or not the Trump team 636 00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:46,480 Speaker 3: can repeat this performance in the absence of another conviction, 637 00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:51,520 Speaker 3: or is this really an event driven campaign fundraising effort 638 00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:52,759 Speaker 3: If that makes sense. 639 00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:58,360 Speaker 6: Well, all campaigns use event to maximize their fundraising, especially 640 00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:01,279 Speaker 6: small dollar donors who don't really pay any attention to 641 00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:05,480 Speaker 6: it unless there's something big happening, like a conviction. But 642 00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:08,720 Speaker 6: I would say that the way I read these numbers 643 00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:12,040 Speaker 6: is the big dollar donors are the ones really dominating 644 00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:14,359 Speaker 6: the news. It's not the small dollar donors. I mean, 645 00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:18,799 Speaker 6: when one person, Donor Mellon, can give fifty million dollars 646 00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:20,560 Speaker 6: a Donald Trump, I mean, if you back that number 647 00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:22,800 Speaker 6: out of it, it's basically they've raised the same amount. 648 00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:28,000 Speaker 6: So it's really what you do with the money that 649 00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:30,360 Speaker 6: I think is more interesting right now because there is 650 00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:35,520 Speaker 6: a significant diversion of strategy here, and that is Joe 651 00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:38,359 Speaker 6: Biden's been putting his money on TV in the key 652 00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:43,080 Speaker 6: swing states and sending out messages, most recently attacks on 653 00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:46,000 Speaker 6: Donald Trump, which he hadn't been doing in the spring 654 00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:50,440 Speaker 6: or early winter. And Donald Trump isn't doing any advertising, 655 00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:54,280 Speaker 6: and we know he's got bills to pay for with lawyers, 656 00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:57,600 Speaker 6: but when does he get in the game. When does 657 00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:01,239 Speaker 6: he start placing bets? Even the Biden associated super pac 658 00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:04,279 Speaker 6: has already reserved two hundred and fifty million dollars in 659 00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:08,880 Speaker 6: TV time for the fall campaign. These are really important 660 00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:12,360 Speaker 6: indications of the strategy to come. And I think the 661 00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:15,000 Speaker 6: real pressure is on Trump right now to say, Okay, 662 00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:18,239 Speaker 6: you have resources, what are you going to do with them? 663 00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:21,600 Speaker 6: Because he has got declining poll numbers and there's going 664 00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:23,400 Speaker 6: to be more pressure in the Republican Party say why 665 00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:25,839 Speaker 6: aren't you engaging? Why aren't you advertising? 666 00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:28,440 Speaker 3: But to your point on the Biden camp, having bought 667 00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:31,839 Speaker 3: up so much ad space in the fall, is it 668 00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:34,799 Speaker 3: more prudent in your mind as a campaign manager to 669 00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:37,040 Speaker 3: sit on the cash and wait to spend it later, 670 00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:39,920 Speaker 3: or to start spending it now when it's June and 671 00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:41,360 Speaker 3: the elections not till November. 672 00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:45,400 Speaker 6: Yeah, don't make up much ground in the summer. So 673 00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:49,279 Speaker 6: husband and your resources today is a good strategy. You're 674 00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:51,480 Speaker 6: going to get a big bump at the at the 675 00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:54,680 Speaker 6: debates next week. You know all of America will zone 676 00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:56,239 Speaker 6: in and see what's going on. You don't have to 677 00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:58,880 Speaker 6: pay for that. You might want to buy some afterwards 678 00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:01,880 Speaker 6: to sort of manage exceptions. But then you have a 679 00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:06,279 Speaker 6: convention in August. If you're Democrats in July and Republicans 680 00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:08,399 Speaker 6: and you don't have to pay money for that, that's 681 00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:10,359 Speaker 6: going to be an enormous amount. You know, you know, 682 00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:14,400 Speaker 6: fifty sixty eighty million people will watch that, and so 683 00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:18,040 Speaker 6: you're really down to September, right, And so I think 684 00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:20,080 Speaker 6: what I would be doing, and what I've done in 685 00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:23,080 Speaker 6: the past, is you start husbanding your resources now and 686 00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:28,560 Speaker 6: you start putting them on availabilities. TV isn't equal. It 687 00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:31,319 Speaker 6: gets bought up first come, first serve. If you wait 688 00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:34,160 Speaker 6: too long, and this would be my admonition of the 689 00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:37,200 Speaker 6: Trump campaign, if you wait too long to get those avails, yeah, 690 00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:40,320 Speaker 6: you're not going to get good, good slots to advertise. 691 00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:44,680 Speaker 3: It also raises the question of the content of those advertisements, Genie, 692 00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:47,080 Speaker 3: just not how frequently or in what time slots that 693 00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:49,760 Speaker 3: they that they run. We were speaking with Loomberg's Gregory 694 00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:52,880 Speaker 3: Cordy about this earlier this hour. This notion that because 695 00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:55,600 Speaker 3: these candidates are so well known, a former president and 696 00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:58,560 Speaker 3: a current president, it's not about name recognition or even 697 00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:02,240 Speaker 3: necessarily about their policy, because in large part that's well 698 00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:06,759 Speaker 3: known as well he said, the way in which the 699 00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:09,880 Speaker 3: American public knows these candidates suggest that actually what the 700 00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:12,160 Speaker 3: candidates are likely to be putting out there is just 701 00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:15,680 Speaker 3: a lot of negative negativity attack ads. Genie, is that 702 00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:17,439 Speaker 3: what you're bracing for as well? 703 00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:21,480 Speaker 5: Yes, and that is what is going to happen, because 704 00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:25,160 Speaker 5: when you've got name recognition of this level, you know, 705 00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:27,920 Speaker 5: it is not a question of do people need to 706 00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:30,880 Speaker 5: figure out who Joe Biden and Donald Trump are? And 707 00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:35,040 Speaker 5: with such unpopular candidates, it is really more of an 708 00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:38,200 Speaker 5: issue of defining the other. And so we are going 709 00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:39,960 Speaker 5: to see that in all of these ads. We will 710 00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:42,360 Speaker 5: certainly see that in or an attempt to see that 711 00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:44,880 Speaker 5: in the debate. And you know, it's been a campaign 712 00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:47,839 Speaker 5: where to you know, you go across the board, it 713 00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:51,640 Speaker 5: often doesn't matter what they're saying policy wise, it's more 714 00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:55,040 Speaker 5: about how they are presenting themselves and defining the other. 715 00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:57,879 Speaker 5: And so in Joe Biden's you know, a week from 716 00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:00,000 Speaker 5: today or a week from yesterday, rather on the debate, 717 00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:02,640 Speaker 5: it's not going to be what he says, but how 718 00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:05,200 Speaker 5: he says it. He's got to show he's strong, and 719 00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:07,759 Speaker 5: he's got to make Trump look crazy, and that is 720 00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:09,920 Speaker 5: what we're going to see across the board in this 721 00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:12,799 Speaker 5: messaging not what they say, but how they say it 722 00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:14,240 Speaker 5: and how they define their opponent. 723 00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:18,000 Speaker 3: Well, Rick, we know that Biden is at Camp David 724 00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:20,319 Speaker 3: right now trying to hone that messaging. But if all 725 00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:22,839 Speaker 3: of this is about energy, what's the point of going 726 00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:25,920 Speaker 3: through the whole exercise of answering policy questions or preparing 727 00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:28,399 Speaker 3: your your one liners when people are just trying to 728 00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:29,879 Speaker 3: see if your eyes are still wide open. 729 00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:32,560 Speaker 6: Well, I think for Biden it is a test to see, 730 00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:35,600 Speaker 6: you know, whether or not he actually can talk articulately, 731 00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:39,040 Speaker 6: even about the policies of his own administration. So he 732 00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:41,400 Speaker 6: does have a bar to get over there. But I think, 733 00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:43,520 Speaker 6: you know, you and Genie are both right. I think 734 00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:47,239 Speaker 6: that this is a race to the bottom. And Joe 735 00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:51,040 Speaker 6: Biden wasn't attacking Donald Trump until recently. Why nobody can tell. 736 00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:53,400 Speaker 6: His numbers didn't go up when he talked about himself. 737 00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:56,239 Speaker 6: You know, people think he's too old, and you know, 738 00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:59,480 Speaker 6: people think Donald Trump's too corrupt. So the difference there 739 00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:01,239 Speaker 6: is I think Trump does spend quite a bit of 740 00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:04,520 Speaker 6: time attacking Joe Biden, but he also attacks everybody else. 741 00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:07,759 Speaker 6: I mean, like it's a complete waste of his attacks 742 00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:11,520 Speaker 6: to go after judges and prosecutors and things like that 743 00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:14,400 Speaker 6: because they're not on the ballot. Joe Biden's on the ballot, 744 00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:18,520 Speaker 6: and so I think both campaigns are really dispersed in 745 00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:21,960 Speaker 6: their messaging, much more so than any other presidential campaign 746 00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:25,000 Speaker 6: I've ever seen. My question is when are they going 747 00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:27,359 Speaker 6: to arrow it down to one another and what are 748 00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:28,600 Speaker 6: those attack lines going to be? 749 00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:32,000 Speaker 3: Well, it's also interesting that as Rick talks about the 750 00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:35,239 Speaker 3: various people that Donald Trump attacks at his various appearances, 751 00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:37,440 Speaker 3: we are going to see and hear from Donald Trump 752 00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:40,880 Speaker 3: this week, Geenie, while Biden is at Camp David doing 753 00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:44,680 Speaker 3: his much more formulaic we understand debate prep essentially shielded 754 00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:47,880 Speaker 3: from the public. GUYE potentially utel debate day. Donald Trump's 755 00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:51,279 Speaker 3: going to be in Pennsylvania this weekend. Is it a 756 00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:54,200 Speaker 3: mistake for President Biden not also to be visible, not 757 00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:57,759 Speaker 3: just on debate night, but in the lead up to it. 758 00:40:57,880 --> 00:40:59,719 Speaker 5: You know, I am one who thinks he's got to 759 00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:02,720 Speaker 5: be out as much as possible. That said, the debate 760 00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:05,680 Speaker 5: prep time, the rest to the ability to take a 761 00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:08,600 Speaker 5: step back and think is critically important. He has been 762 00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:11,319 Speaker 5: traveling around the country and obviously around the world in 763 00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:14,239 Speaker 5: the last few weeks. So I think these days of 764 00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:17,719 Speaker 5: rest and practice and rehearsal are important for Biden. But 765 00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:21,040 Speaker 5: that said, after this debate on Thursday, he's got to 766 00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:24,040 Speaker 5: get out there as much as possible. And you know, 767 00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:26,120 Speaker 5: we can't forget this is not only about the few 768 00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:28,640 Speaker 5: hours or the ninety minutes they're in that debate. It's 769 00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:32,319 Speaker 5: the spin afterwards, and it is brutal now because it 770 00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:34,919 Speaker 5: is online. So we're really looking at a debate about 771 00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:37,919 Speaker 5: editors in a way that we didn't use to twenty 772 00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:41,360 Speaker 5: years ago, versus just what happens during the debate. So 773 00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:43,560 Speaker 5: he's got to be out there if he doesn't do 774 00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:47,319 Speaker 5: well on Thursday, making sure he can give lie to 775 00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:48,879 Speaker 5: those attacks that are sure to come. 776 00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:53,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just as much about Friday Friday, we understand. 777 00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:55,680 Speaker 3: According to CBS Rick, Donald Trump is going to be 778 00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:58,359 Speaker 3: in Virginia. Where should Joe Biden go the day after? 779 00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:01,080 Speaker 6: Yeah, I think Joe Biden needs to stay in the 780 00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:03,799 Speaker 6: swing states where you know he has a chance to win, 781 00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:08,759 Speaker 6: and obviously the top tier priority of the Blue Wall Michigan, Pennsylvania, 782 00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:11,480 Speaker 6: and Wisconsin. He wins those three, he's president of the 783 00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:14,920 Speaker 6: United States, I guess, along with Nebraska's second district. So 784 00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:16,760 Speaker 6: maybe he goes to Nebraska second District. 785 00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:20,000 Speaker 3: All right, I guess there's our answer. Of course. Rick 786 00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:23,640 Speaker 3: and Jeanie, our signature political panel, always round things out 787 00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:25,560 Speaker 3: for us on a Friday, in which we're now just 788 00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:28,480 Speaker 3: six days away from that debate. Rick Davis is a 789 00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:31,440 Speaker 3: partner at Stone Court Capital. Jeanie Schanzeno a Senior Democracy 790 00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:35,799 Speaker 3: Fellow at the Study for the Presidency and Congress. Great 791 00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:37,640 Speaker 3: to have you here on this Friday as we look 792 00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:38,360 Speaker 3: ahead to the debate. 793 00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:47,879 Speaker 2: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast kens 794 00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:50,759 Speaker 2: Just Live weekdays at noon Eastern on Apple car Play 795 00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:53,400 Speaker 2: and enroyd Oto with the Bloomberg Business App. You can 796 00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:56,680 Speaker 2: also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New 797 00:42:56,760 --> 00:43:00,120 Speaker 2: York station, Just Say Alexa playing Bloomberg. 798 00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:06,040 Speaker 3: Eleven counting down the days to the first presidential debate. 799 00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:09,319 Speaker 3: There's only six of them left before that debate takes 800 00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:14,160 Speaker 3: place on Thursday, June twenty seventh. And if you're wondering, yes, 801 00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:17,759 Speaker 3: that is unusually early for a debate to happen, and 802 00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:21,920 Speaker 3: an election cycle is actually happening before either Donald Trump 803 00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:25,960 Speaker 3: or Joe Biden are actually the nominees for their respective parties. 804 00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:28,160 Speaker 3: They're still just going to be presumptive at this point 805 00:43:28,239 --> 00:43:31,360 Speaker 3: because the conventions haven't happened yet. And that's not the 806 00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:34,440 Speaker 3: only thing that's going to make this upcoming debate unusual. 807 00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:37,680 Speaker 3: There's also the consideration of the rules like a mute 808 00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:40,480 Speaker 3: button and no live audience. So we wanted to get 809 00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:44,200 Speaker 3: some historical perspective and bring in Barbara Perry from the 810 00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:47,080 Speaker 3: University of Virginia, where she is a professor in Presidential 811 00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:51,040 Speaker 3: Studies at UVa's Miller Center. Welcome back to Balance of Power, Barbara. 812 00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:53,440 Speaker 3: Always great to have you on the program. Can we 813 00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:56,080 Speaker 3: just start with the timing? Are people even prone to 814 00:43:56,080 --> 00:44:00,279 Speaker 3: pay attention to a debate like this this early? I'm 815 00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:00,920 Speaker 3: in a cycle. 816 00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:04,680 Speaker 9: Yeah, I'm right, I'm skeptical, kleie people. 817 00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:06,920 Speaker 1: I've just come back from a bit of a holiday 818 00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:10,240 Speaker 1: myself and took a little bit of a break from 819 00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:13,279 Speaker 1: reading and watching lots of media and doing media. But 820 00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:15,920 Speaker 1: first of all, happy to be with you, and second, 821 00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:18,840 Speaker 1: it is summertime and it will be the height of 822 00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:22,080 Speaker 1: the summertime, so I'm a little bit skeptical that as 823 00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:24,719 Speaker 1: many people will watch as they would at let's say 824 00:44:24,719 --> 00:44:27,560 Speaker 1: after labor days we get closer to the election, and 825 00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:29,640 Speaker 1: I think the other element though that could go in 826 00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:32,560 Speaker 1: the favor of a high audience would be the heat dome. 827 00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:35,720 Speaker 1: Should that continue, and it looks to be the case 828 00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:38,200 Speaker 1: across the country. Lots of people will be at home, 829 00:44:38,239 --> 00:44:40,480 Speaker 1: It'll be in their air conditioning, and they may be 830 00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:41,120 Speaker 1: prone then. 831 00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:41,919 Speaker 9: To watch. 832 00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:46,840 Speaker 3: It's fascinating. People just trying to stay indoors, maybe looking 833 00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:49,640 Speaker 3: for something to do. As an added element that could 834 00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:51,799 Speaker 3: factor in here, But there's also the question of what 835 00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:54,680 Speaker 3: those people are going to be experiencing when they're at 836 00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:58,640 Speaker 3: home watching this on television with no cues from a 837 00:44:58,680 --> 00:45:01,759 Speaker 3: live audience. Usually at a debate like this, you hear 838 00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:05,319 Speaker 3: the collapse or the booze whatever in response to what 839 00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:08,160 Speaker 3: a candidate is saying. The audience at home is going 840 00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:10,160 Speaker 3: to be kind of left for themselves to decide what 841 00:45:10,239 --> 00:45:13,239 Speaker 3: the reaction should be because that isn't going to be 842 00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:15,280 Speaker 3: there for the first time in what is a really 843 00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:17,640 Speaker 3: long time. I understand, Barbara, how should we be thinking 844 00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:22,680 Speaker 3: about the live audience and the lack of it More specifically, I, for. 845 00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:25,600 Speaker 1: One, Kali will be pleased not to have the booing 846 00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:28,799 Speaker 1: and the shouting and the clapping. I find that distracting. 847 00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:31,600 Speaker 1: But it might be a little bit like during the pandemic, 848 00:45:31,680 --> 00:45:34,960 Speaker 1: you know, watching the US Open tennis match or watching 849 00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:39,680 Speaker 1: the Masters without anybody they're spectating and cheering, and so 850 00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:42,480 Speaker 1: the silence may be deafening in that sense. But I 851 00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:44,879 Speaker 1: should tell you I was just visiting with a young 852 00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:48,400 Speaker 1: friend in my hometown of Louisville, Kentucky, last week, and 853 00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:51,040 Speaker 1: he's going to have all of his friends over to 854 00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:53,920 Speaker 1: have a debate party, and they also have a pool, 855 00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:56,680 Speaker 1: so it'll maybe be watching while in the pool. But 856 00:45:56,800 --> 00:45:59,880 Speaker 1: he's going to have Bingo cards and he said, what 857 00:45:59,840 --> 00:46:01,600 Speaker 1: what can I have on the Bingo cart? You know 858 00:46:01,640 --> 00:46:04,480 Speaker 1: what will these people be saying on the stage That 859 00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:06,480 Speaker 1: is typical? And then you know do you get to 860 00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:08,840 Speaker 1: fill in your Bengo card and yell bingo? So I 861 00:46:08,840 --> 00:46:10,680 Speaker 1: think if people turn it into I said, you're not 862 00:46:10,719 --> 00:46:12,640 Speaker 1: going to do a drinking game, I hope and he said. 863 00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:13,760 Speaker 9: No, we're not going to do that. 864 00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:16,640 Speaker 1: So I think there are different ways to watch and 865 00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:18,799 Speaker 1: maybe it will be like I know when I watch 866 00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:23,560 Speaker 1: college basketball. I am cheering and shouting and booing and jumping. 867 00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:23,800 Speaker 9: Up and down. 868 00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:26,080 Speaker 1: So maybe people will get into it at. 869 00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:30,040 Speaker 3: Home, Kentucky, home of not just derby parties, but I 870 00:46:30,080 --> 00:46:33,160 Speaker 3: guess debate parties as well. Barbara. As we consider the 871 00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:35,760 Speaker 3: idea of no live audience though, and what that that brings, 872 00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:38,320 Speaker 3: perhaps more focus to your point, you it's the absence 873 00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:41,080 Speaker 3: of distraction. It's not just the lack of live audience, 874 00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:43,560 Speaker 3: which we know that Donald Trump typically likes. He feeds 875 00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:46,359 Speaker 3: off that energy. It's also the factor of the mute 876 00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:48,759 Speaker 3: button being cut off when you when your time is up, 877 00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:51,560 Speaker 3: not having the ability to speak over the other candidate. 878 00:46:51,640 --> 00:46:54,120 Speaker 3: Knowing what we know about these presidents, who do you 879 00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:55,920 Speaker 3: think these rules net benefits? 880 00:46:57,800 --> 00:47:01,120 Speaker 1: I think this one certainly benefits the present President Biden 881 00:47:01,239 --> 00:47:04,560 Speaker 1: because he should not have to have someone speaking over 882 00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:07,719 Speaker 1: him with a live mic. Now, I am a bit 883 00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:14,360 Speaker 1: skeptical that former President Trump will stop speaking when the 884 00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:17,120 Speaker 1: mic goes off. In other words, will he continue to speak? 885 00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:20,319 Speaker 1: And will that be distracting to President Biden even though 886 00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:23,120 Speaker 1: audience might not be able to hear, But will the 887 00:47:23,160 --> 00:47:25,680 Speaker 1: president be able to hear someone who's trying to talk 888 00:47:25,719 --> 00:47:28,520 Speaker 1: over him? Even without a live mic. And anyone who 889 00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:31,320 Speaker 1: does any public speaking, or is a teacher or a 890 00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:34,560 Speaker 1: professor knows that it's a little bit distracting and takes 891 00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:37,560 Speaker 1: you off point. And if one is prone to gaffs, 892 00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:40,600 Speaker 1: as we know President Biden can tend to be, sometimes 893 00:47:41,080 --> 00:47:43,640 Speaker 1: that can be detrimental, I think to him. 894 00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:47,280 Speaker 3: Well, to that point, Barbara, is really all this debate 895 00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:51,279 Speaker 3: is about for Biden, not gaffing, not pausing for too long, 896 00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:55,440 Speaker 3: not giving any appearance, any appearance of weakness or a 897 00:47:55,560 --> 00:47:58,879 Speaker 3: lack of mental acuity as he debates at eighty one 898 00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:01,399 Speaker 3: years old. Does it even what he says or only 899 00:48:01,440 --> 00:48:02,160 Speaker 3: how he says it? 900 00:48:03,960 --> 00:48:07,200 Speaker 1: The message is always important as we look back through history. 901 00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:10,920 Speaker 1: So yes, he has to be clear on his message, 902 00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:13,359 Speaker 1: but he also has to get the word out as 903 00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:16,799 Speaker 1: clearly and concisely as he can. He shouldn't ramble, He 904 00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:19,800 Speaker 1: should try to avoid gats. You should try to speak clearly. 905 00:48:19,840 --> 00:48:22,400 Speaker 1: As Sandra Dale O'Connor once said to my dad, who 906 00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:23,520 Speaker 1: had some hearing issues. 907 00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:24,760 Speaker 9: My dad, when I've turned. 908 00:48:24,520 --> 00:48:27,239 Speaker 1: Said, I can understand every word you say. And she 909 00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:30,560 Speaker 1: said that is because I speak and enunciate very clearly. 910 00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:34,080 Speaker 1: So that's what I think the president needs to do 911 00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:37,920 Speaker 1: and not have any stumbles or mumbles as he's speaking, 912 00:48:38,239 --> 00:48:41,040 Speaker 1: and that's not going to be easy because he does have, 913 00:48:41,200 --> 00:48:44,040 Speaker 1: as he's been very open about the stuttering problem from 914 00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:47,399 Speaker 1: years back, a lifelong problem, and as we all get 915 00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:49,319 Speaker 1: a little bit older, we tend to have a few 916 00:48:49,360 --> 00:48:52,080 Speaker 1: stumbles or mumbles, and that goes for as we know, 917 00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:55,759 Speaker 1: former President Trump, who just turned seventy eight, and he 918 00:48:55,800 --> 00:48:58,000 Speaker 1: has tended to ramble of late, so both of them 919 00:48:58,040 --> 00:48:59,399 Speaker 1: have to be really careful about that. 920 00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:03,840 Speaker 3: Of course, while the age question has dogged President Biden, 921 00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:07,000 Speaker 3: Donald Trump has been dogged by his myriad legal challenges, 922 00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:10,719 Speaker 3: one of which we could have development in perhaps the 923 00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:13,799 Speaker 3: very day of the debate, Barbara. We're still awaiting a 924 00:49:13,840 --> 00:49:16,520 Speaker 3: handful of opinions from the Supreme Court, one of which 925 00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:19,560 Speaker 3: is the question around presidential immunity that could dictate the 926 00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:21,360 Speaker 3: timeline at which he could go to trial here in 927 00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:25,960 Speaker 3: Washington in the Jack Smith case of election subversion. Is 928 00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:29,840 Speaker 3: there any president in history in which you could have 929 00:49:29,960 --> 00:49:34,080 Speaker 3: something like that dropping the day of a presidential debate. 930 00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:37,880 Speaker 1: I can't think of one offhand. 931 00:49:38,200 --> 00:49:39,760 Speaker 9: Certainly, there have been events. 932 00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:43,640 Speaker 1: In the world that have been happening during debates, the 933 00:49:43,719 --> 00:49:46,920 Speaker 1: first pelvised debate between Kennedy and Nixon in nineteen sixty 934 00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:50,400 Speaker 1: the height of the Cold War, but not anything like this, 935 00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:52,800 Speaker 1: because we know it's the first time a former president 936 00:49:53,360 --> 00:49:56,239 Speaker 1: has gone to a criminal trial and has been a 937 00:49:56,280 --> 00:50:00,000 Speaker 1: convicted felon while on the stage and running for president 938 00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:03,480 Speaker 1: and again, so that's unprecedented. It wouldn't surprise me, as 939 00:50:03,520 --> 00:50:05,239 Speaker 1: someone who served for a year at the court in 940 00:50:05,239 --> 00:50:08,640 Speaker 1: the nineteen nineties, if they might not hold off until 941 00:50:08,680 --> 00:50:11,760 Speaker 1: after the debate to announce that decision, whatever it happens 942 00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:13,280 Speaker 1: to be about presidential immunity. 943 00:50:14,560 --> 00:50:17,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe we get an opinion day added on Friday, Barbara, 944 00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:20,479 Speaker 3: before we let you go. Just in our final moment here, 945 00:50:20,880 --> 00:50:23,359 Speaker 3: there is the question of how much this ultimately will 946 00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:26,439 Speaker 3: matter in the Graham's grand scheme of things. Looking back 947 00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:30,160 Speaker 3: at history, do we consider presidential debates to be pivotal 948 00:50:30,160 --> 00:50:32,560 Speaker 3: inflection points in any campaign? 949 00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:34,440 Speaker 9: Absolutely? 950 00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:37,040 Speaker 1: And I would say given this past week's passing of 951 00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:40,760 Speaker 1: Willie Mays and most people immediately it came to mind 952 00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:43,560 Speaker 1: his the catch. They called it. They didn't even have 953 00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:45,279 Speaker 1: to say, Willy Mason that at the catch, you know, 954 00:50:45,360 --> 00:50:48,480 Speaker 1: running full speed back to the infield, drops over his head, 955 00:50:48,480 --> 00:50:50,960 Speaker 1: he catches the ball. If he had bobbled it, maybe 956 00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:52,799 Speaker 1: it would have been remembered, maybe not. So I would 957 00:50:52,840 --> 00:50:56,440 Speaker 1: say that for these presidential candidates and the incumbent president, 958 00:50:56,760 --> 00:50:59,120 Speaker 1: they want to have clean catches. They want to hit 959 00:50:59,200 --> 00:51:03,920 Speaker 1: home runs, maybe even a Grand Slam, no bobbles, no errors, 960 00:51:04,280 --> 00:51:06,760 Speaker 1: and because that is what people remember and it often 961 00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:08,800 Speaker 1: has an impact on it who wins or who loses 962 00:51:08,840 --> 00:51:09,320 Speaker 1: the election. 963 00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:13,279 Speaker 3: All right, Barbara Perry always great to talk to you. 964 00:51:13,360 --> 00:51:16,680 Speaker 3: She's professor in presidential Studies at the University of Virginia's 965 00:51:16,920 --> 00:51:19,360 Speaker 3: Miller Center. Go Who's Barbara? Thank you so much for 966 00:51:19,440 --> 00:51:20,320 Speaker 3: joining us here. 967 00:51:24,640 --> 00:51:27,080 Speaker 7: Thanks for listening to the Balance of Power podcast. 968 00:51:27,680 --> 00:51:30,120 Speaker 6: Make sure to subscribe if you haven't already, at Apple, 969 00:51:30,239 --> 00:51:30,839 Speaker 6: Spotify 970 00:51:30,920 --> 00:51:33,480 Speaker 7: Or wherever you get your podcasts, and you can find 971 00:51:33,560 --> 00:51:36,800 Speaker 7: us live every weekday from Washington, DC at noontime Eastern 972 00:51:37,080 --> 00:51:38,520 Speaker 7: at Bloomberg dot com.