1 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:11,360 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:18,080 Speaker 2: Well, Elon Musk is now the richest person on the planet. 3 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:21,320 Speaker 1: More than half the satellites in space are owned and 4 00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:23,400 Speaker 1: controlled by one man. 5 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:26,439 Speaker 3: Starting his own artificial intelligence company. 6 00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:30,200 Speaker 1: Well, he's a legitimate, super genius. Legitimate, he says. 7 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:32,840 Speaker 4: He's always voted for Democrats, but this year it will 8 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:33,280 Speaker 4: be different. 9 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:36,280 Speaker 1: He'll vote Republican. There is a reason the US government 10 00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:38,920 Speaker 1: is so reliant on him. Elon Musk is a scam 11 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:41,840 Speaker 1: artist and he's done nothing of him. 12 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:44,600 Speaker 3: Anything he does is fascinating people. 13 00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:56,040 Speaker 4: Welcome to de elan Ing, Bloomberg's weekly podcast about Elon Musk. 14 00:00:56,120 --> 00:01:01,040 Speaker 4: It's Tuesday, July twenty third. I'm your host, David Papadapple. Well, 15 00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:04,160 Speaker 4: the election news has not let up, and Elon Musk 16 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:06,560 Speaker 4: is once again in the middle of it. On Sunday, 17 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:10,880 Speaker 4: after President Joe Biden announced on x among other social networks, 18 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:13,960 Speaker 4: his decision to withdraw from the race, Musk went into 19 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:16,640 Speaker 4: overdrive to support his candidate Donald Trump. 20 00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:18,360 Speaker 3: But did he go too far? 21 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:20,360 Speaker 4: And what do we make of the head of a 22 00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:24,560 Speaker 4: social media platform being so openly partisan. To discuss this, 23 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:27,800 Speaker 4: we have a couple of our regulars Max Chapkin, Low, 24 00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:31,800 Speaker 4: Max David, and Sarah Friar, who runs big tech coverage. 25 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:35,520 Speaker 4: Sarah is back with us after a few months away. Sarah, 26 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:36,880 Speaker 4: great to have you back. 27 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:38,360 Speaker 5: It's great to be back. 28 00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:42,640 Speaker 4: And later, serve yourself a summer martini because we've got 29 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:45,760 Speaker 4: the first of a series of one on one summer conversations. 30 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:48,600 Speaker 4: They're a handful of topics we want to go deep 31 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:50,440 Speaker 4: on this summer, and this is the first of them. 32 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:53,640 Speaker 4: It's a chat between Max and Fred Lambert, editor in 33 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:56,600 Speaker 4: chief of an ev news site called Electric, to talk 34 00:01:56,640 --> 00:02:00,560 Speaker 4: about Elon Musk's political evolution and to excit and just 35 00:02:00,600 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 4: how much it's hurting Tesla sales. Okay, so Sarah. A 36 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:07,360 Speaker 4: lot of people out there, including I noticed The Atlantic 37 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:11,600 Speaker 4: is declaring that it is a sign that Elon is winning, 38 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:14,720 Speaker 4: the fact that Biden essentially broke the news of his 39 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:19,079 Speaker 4: leaving the race on X What do you make of this? 40 00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:22,359 Speaker 5: I mean, I think that says more about the media's 41 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:26,480 Speaker 5: addiction to Twitter than it does about Musk's prowess and 42 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:30,840 Speaker 5: leading it. I was talking to some strategists yesterday on politics, 43 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:34,640 Speaker 5: and it might actually be to Democrats benefit for him 44 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 5: to be making all of these big pro Trump pronouncements, 45 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:43,680 Speaker 5: because every little thing that happens on the platform now 46 00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:47,480 Speaker 5: that seems to be a slight against Democrats could actually 47 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 5: be a fundraising opportunity for them. 48 00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:53,600 Speaker 4: Max does the fact that the news essentially gets announced 49 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:57,280 Speaker 4: there remind us and perhaps more importantly, advertisers, that, for 50 00:02:57,320 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 4: all its laws, X is still the place at big 51 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:01,360 Speaker 4: moments like this. 52 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:04,200 Speaker 2: So I think it was simultaneously announced if I'm not mistaken, 53 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:09,760 Speaker 2: on Instagram, on several social platforms, including X Twitter. But 54 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:12,920 Speaker 2: like you're saying, I think it was the tweet, the 55 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:15,840 Speaker 2: ex that really was the place where there was a 56 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:18,840 Speaker 2: lot of conversation that was being referenced, And I do 57 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:23,360 Speaker 2: think in some sense it validates the idea that X 58 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:28,360 Speaker 2: is still an important place for conversation among influential political leaders. 59 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 2: You know, Biden didn't have to post it on X 60 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:33,359 Speaker 2: at all, but of course he did, and we're all 61 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 2: still there, and I do think it's you know, X 62 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:39,320 Speaker 2: Twitter has suffered in all sorts of ways. It is 63 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:42,840 Speaker 2: not the platform that it was when Elon Musk bought it. 64 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 2: It definitely, i'd say, is a little bit less vital. 65 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:48,560 Speaker 2: It doesn't seem to work as well, it's definitely more 66 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:50,720 Speaker 2: right wing, but it still is where a lot of 67 00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:54,200 Speaker 2: conversation is happening. And watching the Republican National Convention, you know, 68 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 2: I was just struck by how important Twitter. 69 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:00,600 Speaker 3: X is to that system. 70 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:04,240 Speaker 2: You know, it really feels like I remember during the 71 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:07,280 Speaker 2: end of the Trump presidency, we were talking about, you know, 72 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:09,960 Speaker 2: internally at Business Week about different sort of right wing 73 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 2: television networks. We ran a story about o Ann that 74 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:15,560 Speaker 2: that's a sort of alternative Fox News, and there's questions, 75 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:18,440 Speaker 2: does does o Ann or Newsmax does that become the 76 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:20,719 Speaker 2: new pro Trump media outlet? And it really feels like 77 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:24,680 Speaker 2: the pro Trump media outlet isn't a TV network, it's X, right. 78 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:27,120 Speaker 5: Which is interesting because you still see Trump posting on 79 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:31,760 Speaker 5: truth Social and not migrating over as we've talked about before. 80 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:34,720 Speaker 4: Time will tell there if indeed at some point he 81 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:37,320 Speaker 4: moves over or Max, I guess if we all suddenly 82 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 4: find ourselves on truth Social. You don't have your account yet. 83 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:42,960 Speaker 3: I have a truth. I have a truth. I have 84 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:45,560 Speaker 3: never truth, but I have I have truth. 85 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:49,080 Speaker 4: Okay, Now, Sarah, on that point that Max was bringing 86 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:55,240 Speaker 4: up about X being the platform for conservatives in many ways, 87 00:04:55,640 --> 00:05:00,679 Speaker 4: you know, is it normal to have someone and taking 88 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:04,560 Speaker 4: as big a role as Elon is, donating, endorsing while 89 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:07,840 Speaker 4: simultaneously in charge of a social media platform. I mean, 90 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:10,799 Speaker 4: I'm actually and I will look at your own piece 91 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:12,839 Speaker 4: that you have out this morning in which you quote 92 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:16,599 Speaker 4: Elon saying shortly after taking Twitter over or agreeing to 93 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:21,360 Speaker 4: take Twitter over, that quote. For Twitter to deserve public trust, 94 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:24,039 Speaker 4: it must be politically neutral. 95 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:29,960 Speaker 5: Well, you know, we have had a long tradition in 96 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:34,080 Speaker 5: America and actually internationally a billionaires owning media companies. That 97 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:38,200 Speaker 5: is nothing new. That is very different than what we 98 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:41,800 Speaker 5: are seeing now with Elon Musk owning Twitter. He is 99 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:46,960 Speaker 5: owning a real time news distribution network that where news 100 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:51,039 Speaker 5: is created like Biden posting about his choice not to run. 101 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:55,000 Speaker 5: And I think that that changes the game. When when 102 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:58,680 Speaker 5: you have a leader of that platform declare his support 103 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:03,720 Speaker 5: for somebody in the race in the first important presidential 104 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:08,480 Speaker 5: races must took over. That colors how people receive information 105 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:11,560 Speaker 5: on the platform. It is unprecedented, and I think that 106 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:15,680 Speaker 5: it's going to make election Day and the other important 107 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:18,160 Speaker 5: breaking news events where we go to Twitter for this 108 00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:21,159 Speaker 5: original source of information. It's going to make it a 109 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:23,800 Speaker 5: lot murkier and a lot more complicated for people to 110 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:27,920 Speaker 5: look at all of the information they're getting from what 111 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:31,640 Speaker 5: was never a reliable landmark, let's be honest, but what 112 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:35,560 Speaker 5: is maybe sometimes the only place to get information at 113 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:39,599 Speaker 5: as as it's developing, and say that they're getting this 114 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:43,520 Speaker 5: from a place where the owner very clearly, very openly 115 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:46,440 Speaker 5: endorses and funds one of the candidates. 116 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:48,719 Speaker 2: I will also say that I'm sure that if they're 117 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:51,159 Speaker 2: like they're Fox News critics who would like have a 118 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:53,360 Speaker 2: word with us and say, you know, Rupert Murdoch is 119 00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:57,159 Speaker 2: a pretty partisan guide. But I will say, like even 120 00:06:57,440 --> 00:07:02,400 Speaker 2: even by those by the standards of like partisan activist billionaires, 121 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:06,200 Speaker 2: Elon Musk is something else. So like after Biden stepped 122 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:08,720 Speaker 2: down and endorsed Kamala Harris, you know, he went on 123 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 2: kind of a Twitter bender, sort of posting read some 124 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 2: of the high Berry. Essentially he was interacting with a 125 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 2: lot of his kind of far right accounts. One of 126 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:21,720 Speaker 2: them posted a picture of alex Soros, George Soros's son, 127 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:25,760 Speaker 2: posing with Kamala Harris, and Elon tweeted, I just like 128 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 2: to thank Alexander Soros for not keeping everyone in suspense 129 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:31,800 Speaker 2: about who the next puppet would be, so sort of 130 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:35,640 Speaker 2: playing into a you know, arguably anti Semitic or at 131 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 2: least anti Semitic adjacent conspiracy theory about the Soros is 132 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:44,560 Speaker 2: kind of running the world. He's he claimed that he 133 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:48,600 Speaker 2: heard a week earlier that Biden would resign at this 134 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 2: exact time, and then said the real powers that be 135 00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:55,080 Speaker 2: are discarding the old puppet in favor of one that 136 00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 2: has a better chance of fooling the puppet, implying that 137 00:07:57,560 --> 00:07:58,320 Speaker 2: this was all a plan. 138 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:00,280 Speaker 3: Again, I don't know what he's talking about, Bounce. 139 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:02,840 Speaker 5: I mean, foram like puppet the puppet theory, it was 140 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 5: like trending all over X for the last couple of days, 141 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:08,400 Speaker 5: this idea that actually make the decision that maybe he's 142 00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 5: actually not even alive. 143 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:12,160 Speaker 3: It's oh yeah, I was getting to that one. 144 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:12,440 Speaker 1: Yeah. 145 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 2: He also repeatedly kept promoting this idea that Biden was 146 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:18,560 Speaker 2: was actually dead, and this is you know that this 147 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:20,960 Speaker 2: is all a big conspiracy. So like it's not just 148 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:24,080 Speaker 2: that he's he's endorsing Trump, I mean he's he's like 149 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:30,520 Speaker 2: pushing a like kind of twisted conspiratorial version of trump 150 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:33,520 Speaker 2: Ism and and putting it right into the main feed 151 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:37,160 Speaker 2: of this social network that promotes itself, you know, whether 152 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:39,800 Speaker 2: we take it seriously or not as being objective. 153 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:43,079 Speaker 5: We've never seen this level of transparency in terms of 154 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:46,079 Speaker 5: how how a leader of one of these networks believes. 155 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:50,440 Speaker 5: If you saw Mark Zuckerberg in his interview with our 156 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:53,400 Speaker 5: own Emily Chang last week, he was asked about the 157 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 5: presidential race. He said that what Trump responded to his 158 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:03,040 Speaker 5: assassination temp with the fist pump that he called that badass. 159 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:06,520 Speaker 5: I think that's that's as safe a signal as he 160 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:10,000 Speaker 5: was willing to give to Trump to maybe get on 161 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:12,600 Speaker 5: his side in case he wins. He will not go 162 00:09:12,679 --> 00:09:17,840 Speaker 5: farther than that. That is the norm for a executive 163 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:20,480 Speaker 5: in charge of a platform like this to really toe 164 00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:22,960 Speaker 5: the line and try to appear neutral. That's the norm 165 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:26,400 Speaker 5: for newspapers to try to pear neutral despite what the 166 00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:29,079 Speaker 5: opinions of their journalists may be. Musk is out there 167 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:32,160 Speaker 5: in the open saying, you know, this is what I believe, 168 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:35,720 Speaker 5: and this is what you're getting if you're here, which 169 00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 5: maybe is a service to his users. 170 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:38,199 Speaker 3: In some way. 171 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:39,959 Speaker 4: Yeah, I guess, I guess this is true. There is 172 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:44,080 Speaker 4: something to be said for transparency. There Now, meanwhile, Trump 173 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:49,760 Speaker 4: keeps extending his gratitude to Mosque. We heard this just 174 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:50,360 Speaker 4: the other day. 175 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:51,640 Speaker 3: We have to make life good for. 176 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:54,800 Speaker 1: A smart and he's as smart as you get. 177 00:09:57,400 --> 00:10:01,800 Speaker 3: But Elon endorsement the day and I read I didn't 178 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:03,719 Speaker 3: even know this, he didn't even tell me about it. 179 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:08,960 Speaker 1: But he gives me forty five million dollars a month. 180 00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:10,640 Speaker 3: You know, it's funny. Max. 181 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:13,000 Speaker 4: When he was saying at first that we got to 182 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:14,320 Speaker 4: be good to our smart people, I thought he was 183 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:15,080 Speaker 4: referring to you. 184 00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:17,840 Speaker 2: But well, you know, I think he may be listening 185 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:20,600 Speaker 2: to the Elon In podcast, because not only did we 186 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:23,560 Speaker 2: talk about the forty five million, but I mentioned last 187 00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 2: week that I was a little skeptical that Elon would 188 00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:28,960 Speaker 2: fully fulfill. 189 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:31,080 Speaker 3: Any commitments he made. And what I heard here in 190 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:34,079 Speaker 3: that in what Trump is saying there is sort of 191 00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:37,800 Speaker 3: a reminder to Elon Musk that, hey, you've you've committed 192 00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:40,559 Speaker 3: to something here, buddy, like you better follow through with that, 193 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:41,760 Speaker 3: keep coming with the cast. 194 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:45,200 Speaker 2: And in addition to of course identifying with a very 195 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:50,000 Speaker 2: successful businessman and industrialist who's who's relatively popular among conservatives. 196 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:52,080 Speaker 4: Does this truly put him in X and any kind 197 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:55,559 Speaker 4: of peril, like you know, the way conservatives used to 198 00:10:55,640 --> 00:10:57,520 Speaker 4: rail against the Twitter of old. 199 00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:00,200 Speaker 2: Yes, it's gonna be a big I think it's going 200 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:03,120 Speaker 2: to be a big issue. We've already seen even before 201 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:06,680 Speaker 2: Kamala Harris was the you know, likely nominee, bringing up 202 00:11:06,679 --> 00:11:10,120 Speaker 2: Elon Musk as sort of identify him closely with Trump. 203 00:11:10,400 --> 00:11:13,040 Speaker 2: And the more this goes on, and you know, eventually 204 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:15,720 Speaker 2: we will see the actual FEC filings for this pack 205 00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:19,760 Speaker 2: that Elon Musk supposedly has donated to. And and as 206 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:22,400 Speaker 2: this goes on, and especially if Trump wins the election, 207 00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:25,080 Speaker 2: this is gonna be a huge thing. It's gonna I 208 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:30,120 Speaker 2: think Democrats have been activated to some extent around Elon Musk. 209 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:31,120 Speaker 3: But but but. 210 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:33,360 Speaker 2: It was always kind of a little hazy. It wasn't 211 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:36,680 Speaker 2: clear and and you had to be like chronically online 212 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:39,080 Speaker 2: to understand what's going on. But now now it's sort 213 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:42,000 Speaker 2: of breaking out into like normal mainstream discourse. 214 00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:44,760 Speaker 3: He is going to be a boogeyman to the left. 215 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 5: And what's interesting is he's becoming he's becoming the subject 216 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:52,640 Speaker 5: of fundraising emails for Democrats and for Republicans, and Trump 217 00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:55,480 Speaker 5: is is using his name to raise money and and 218 00:11:55,559 --> 00:11:57,280 Speaker 5: so it so we're Democrats. 219 00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:01,760 Speaker 4: This is this election is essentially becoming a referendum on 220 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:04,320 Speaker 4: Elon Musk, and I almost feel like a referendum on 221 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:04,880 Speaker 4: Elon inc. 222 00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:08,320 Speaker 3: Vote early and vote often, right. 223 00:12:08,559 --> 00:12:11,360 Speaker 4: Sarah, thank you for joining us. It's terrific to have 224 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:11,840 Speaker 4: you back. 225 00:12:12,679 --> 00:12:13,800 Speaker 5: Thank you. It's so good to do that. 226 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:22,559 Speaker 4: Okay, So we're gonna move away from X and talk 227 00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:26,240 Speaker 4: Tesla now, Max. It is a very big night for 228 00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:29,600 Speaker 4: the company tonight as they drop second quarter earnings. 229 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:31,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, earning's day, David. 230 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:35,200 Speaker 2: We've been talking about the possibility that Elon musk support 231 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:39,200 Speaker 2: of Trump will somehow help Tesla stock, especially as Trump 232 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:41,400 Speaker 2: has done better and better in the polls. The traders 233 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:44,520 Speaker 2: are sort of lumping Trump in with with Elon Musk. 234 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:46,160 Speaker 3: It's become a meme stock. 235 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:49,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, but you know, Tesla's not just a stock. I mean, 236 00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:52,079 Speaker 2: it's also a company that sells these things called cars, 237 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:54,640 Speaker 2: and fewer people over the last two quarters have been 238 00:12:54,679 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 2: buying Tesla's and that's like a real problem, a real 239 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:00,600 Speaker 2: challenge for this company that's kind of getting lost and 240 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:03,400 Speaker 2: that we're going to see more of, you know, during 241 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:06,280 Speaker 2: this earnings conversation. Now, there have been a bunch of 242 00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:10,120 Speaker 2: different explanations for why this is happening, and of course 243 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:13,240 Speaker 2: one of them is Elon Musk himself. As Elon has 244 00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:17,000 Speaker 2: gotten more interested in right wing politics, he's arguably starting 245 00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:21,240 Speaker 2: to alienate the kind of like progressive suburban normies who 246 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:24,440 Speaker 2: are not necessarily like as INTI, being edgy on social 247 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:26,960 Speaker 2: media and are actually just into, like, you know, helping 248 00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:29,280 Speaker 2: the environment by buying, you know, carbon neutripe. 249 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 4: Not the greatest brand ambassador at this current point in time. 250 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:35,760 Speaker 2: So a lot of people have been sort of asking 251 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:39,120 Speaker 2: this question, like could Elon Musk actually be hurting Tesla? 252 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:42,560 Speaker 2: And a couple of weeks back, I interviewed really who 253 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:44,480 Speaker 2: I think is like the perfect guy to have this 254 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:47,000 Speaker 2: conversation with. His name's Fred Lambert. He's the editor of 255 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:51,160 Speaker 2: Electric which is a web publication devoted to evs. 256 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:54,160 Speaker 3: And Fred, for many years, to me. 257 00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:59,160 Speaker 2: Anyway, was like the ultimate Elon Musk fanboy, the guy 258 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:03,200 Speaker 2: who he's a journal but really giving the most optimistic, 259 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:07,360 Speaker 2: fullest vision of like electric cars and Elon Musk and 260 00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:09,640 Speaker 2: why this is going to change the world. But over 261 00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:12,680 Speaker 2: the last few years Fred has gone through a really 262 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:15,520 Speaker 2: fascinating journey and it's a journey we talked about from 263 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:19,120 Speaker 2: seeing Elon Musk as sort of this superhero to really 264 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:22,360 Speaker 2: starting to question whether Elon Musk might actually be hurting Tesla, 265 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:24,800 Speaker 2: and we got into that and really got into like 266 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:27,960 Speaker 2: what this means for the future of this company as 267 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:31,000 Speaker 2: they struggle to drive sales over the next few months. 268 00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:33,680 Speaker 3: This sounds awesome. Let's cue this up. Then. 269 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:36,520 Speaker 4: This is that conversation between Max and Fred Lambert. 270 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:40,560 Speaker 3: Fred, welcome to elon K. 271 00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:42,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks for having me, Max. 272 00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:47,000 Speaker 3: So let's start. How did you get interested in Tesla? 273 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:49,480 Speaker 2: I mean as a journalist and then also fair to 274 00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:52,480 Speaker 2: say you come to this from a place of admiration. 275 00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:56,120 Speaker 1: Absolutely, I've been a fan of that you vehicles since 276 00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:58,600 Speaker 1: I remember, like I remember being in the car with 277 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 1: my parents as a kid, and I I think my 278 00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:04,560 Speaker 1: parents complained about gasoline prices and like my dad saying like, 279 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:07,800 Speaker 1: we should have electric cars by now. So it's always 280 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:10,480 Speaker 1: been something that I've been very interested in. But where 281 00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:12,720 Speaker 1: I started getting a little bit more serious about it 282 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:15,880 Speaker 1: was when I saw Chris Pain's movie Who Killed It 283 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:18,520 Speaker 1: At Your Car? It came out early two thousand and 284 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:21,360 Speaker 1: you know it followed specifically the story of the EV 285 00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:24,040 Speaker 1: one from GM, which was one of the first like 286 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:29,800 Speaker 1: new generation electric car, but it highlighted some suspects to 287 00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:33,600 Speaker 1: who's trying to keep down electric cars and now linking 288 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:37,080 Speaker 1: it back to the subject of this podcast, the second 289 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:40,240 Speaker 1: big step in my progression towards electric cars has been 290 00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:43,600 Speaker 1: actually Elon's blog posts two thousand and six blog posts 291 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:46,360 Speaker 1: of Tesla Secret Master Plan Part one. I think I 292 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:48,640 Speaker 1: read it just after that I saw that movie We 293 00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:50,720 Speaker 1: Kill Electric Cars, so around two thousand and eight, my 294 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:53,960 Speaker 1: last year of high school, and when I read that 295 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:56,560 Speaker 1: blog post, it clicked my head. I'm like, oh, this 296 00:15:56,600 --> 00:15:59,240 Speaker 1: guy gets it. This guy has an actual plan to 297 00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:02,720 Speaker 1: make electric happened, Make a sports car, make a car 298 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:07,160 Speaker 1: that doesn't compromise on gasling vehicle is just as good, 299 00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:09,920 Speaker 1: if not better, and then start building from there into 300 00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:12,480 Speaker 1: a more mass market vehicle and so on. So when 301 00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 1: I read that, I'm like, oh, this is a company 302 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:16,360 Speaker 1: to keep an eye on. I think they could be 303 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:18,480 Speaker 1: the one to bring in a cha cars to market. 304 00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:21,160 Speaker 3: You've been covering this, I mean almost from the beginning, right. 305 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:23,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, yeah, the real story was like two thousand 306 00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:26,760 Speaker 1: and eight twy eleven that they built it so that's 307 00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:30,000 Speaker 1: when I really started following Tesla closely. Back then that 308 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:32,440 Speaker 1: was like the Tesla read It was the biggest Tesla 309 00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:35,160 Speaker 1: community online. So I started being a moderator on that. 310 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:38,760 Speaker 1: I posted a lot there, just trying to promote the company, 311 00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:41,680 Speaker 1: try to get good information around the company, because back 312 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:44,120 Speaker 1: then the media was not taking them very seriously, was 313 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:47,040 Speaker 1: not taking a che vehicle that seriously, especially like the 314 00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:50,200 Speaker 1: core like automotive media. So I started to build some 315 00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:52,640 Speaker 1: knowledge around the company and post around it a lot. 316 00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:56,440 Speaker 1: And in twenty fifteen, set wind Shop was the publisher 317 00:16:56,440 --> 00:16:58,680 Speaker 1: of a ninety five Mac ninety five Google reached out 318 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:00,680 Speaker 1: to me because he had just had bought Tesla mol 319 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:04,199 Speaker 1: ass and he thought that it would be a good 320 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:08,120 Speaker 1: idea to start a media publication around Tesla but also 321 00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:11,119 Speaker 1: elect your vehicles at large. So that's when I started 322 00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:13,719 Speaker 1: to actually make this my living and write every day 323 00:17:13,720 --> 00:17:15,080 Speaker 1: about Tesla and energy vehicles. 324 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:18,199 Speaker 2: So you're like a media figure. You're writing articles, podcasting, 325 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:20,760 Speaker 2: tweeting and so on. Of course we talk on this 326 00:17:20,840 --> 00:17:25,000 Speaker 2: pod like all the time about all the weird stuff 327 00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:28,199 Speaker 2: that elon tweets, you know, these like conspiracy theories and 328 00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:30,200 Speaker 2: so on. But you know, back in the day, back 329 00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:33,000 Speaker 2: in the time you're talking about, he was like tweeting 330 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:37,040 Speaker 2: a lot about your stuff, right, tweeting your articles, your commentary. 331 00:17:37,359 --> 00:17:39,320 Speaker 3: I even pulled up tweets from. 332 00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:41,520 Speaker 2: Twenty seventeen where you and he are going back on 333 00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:44,439 Speaker 2: social media. You're coaching him, he's tweeting, he's starting to 334 00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:47,399 Speaker 2: tweet about politics, and you're like, hey, Elon, I prefer 335 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:50,440 Speaker 2: your Twitter tweets terms over your justice system tweets terms. 336 00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:54,560 Speaker 2: Elon says me too, I hope to get back to 337 00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:56,919 Speaker 2: regularly scheduled programming. 338 00:17:57,160 --> 00:17:58,040 Speaker 1: I forgot about that. 339 00:17:58,160 --> 00:17:59,639 Speaker 3: It feels like ages. 340 00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:02,000 Speaker 2: It feels like a different lifetime, right, I mean when 341 00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:05,359 Speaker 2: did things start to change? I mean, either for Elon 342 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:06,680 Speaker 2: or for you, I guess, or for both. 343 00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:09,680 Speaker 1: I do remember a couple of times having this sort 344 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:12,320 Speaker 1: of tweets with him, and like seeing him go into 345 00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:14,879 Speaker 1: something that's not really you know, his lane, not that 346 00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:17,440 Speaker 1: she's like, you're not. He can say whatever he wants 347 00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:20,639 Speaker 1: on whatever subject he wants. Is just I started seeing 348 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:24,480 Speaker 1: around that time him tweeting things like that that as 349 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:28,679 Speaker 1: the CEO and like the face of a major consumer company. 350 00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 1: Tesla sells to consumers, it's not too smart to get 351 00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:35,679 Speaker 1: like super politicals because you shut down, especially in the 352 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:40,360 Speaker 1: US where two party system very polarizing. But twenty nineteen 353 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:43,200 Speaker 1: for me is when I really started seeing a big change. 354 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:47,080 Speaker 1: I started seeing maybe him interacting less and less with 355 00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:51,360 Speaker 1: anyone that was critical and more and more with fans 356 00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:54,919 Speaker 1: that are willing to leave any critic aside and just 357 00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:56,360 Speaker 1: focus on praise. 358 00:18:56,600 --> 00:18:58,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I again, I went on a little 359 00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:02,240 Speaker 2: journey back through your timeline. Another tweet, you know, April 360 00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:05,960 Speaker 2: twenty third, you must have published something that Elon saw 361 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:09,480 Speaker 2: as negative because he tweeted complaining about double standard articles 362 00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:12,840 Speaker 2: about Tesla, and you wrote back that you, you know, 363 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:15,720 Speaker 2: had always defended Tesla. You basically say, listen, I'm on 364 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:18,480 Speaker 2: your side here, And Elon wrote, how did you manage 365 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:21,360 Speaker 2: to get so shamed into being a de facto anti 366 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:24,919 Speaker 2: teslast by social media trolls? Geez, basically like you are 367 00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:27,960 Speaker 2: the enemy Fred, editor of Electric. 368 00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:30,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, that that hurt me a lot back, Dan, because 369 00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:32,879 Speaker 1: you know, Emon was a hero of mine and having 370 00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:36,160 Speaker 1: him like call me anti Tesla, which you know made 371 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:38,000 Speaker 1: no sense to me, because you know, I was invested 372 00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:41,720 Speaker 1: in Tesla's talk, like I was literally pro like pro Tesla, 373 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:45,040 Speaker 1: like invested in the company. I homed to Tesla vehicles 374 00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:49,080 Speaker 1: back then. I referred like hundreds of Tesla sales over 375 00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:51,679 Speaker 1: the years. I've been very positive on the company in 376 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:55,159 Speaker 1: my commentary on the company, so I was like anti 377 00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:59,479 Speaker 1: Tesla for yeah, this specific conversation was about him, like 378 00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:04,800 Speaker 1: just this reports on Tesla catching on fire, which I 379 00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:07,240 Speaker 1: knew where it comes from. That because the media had 380 00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:11,680 Speaker 1: a tendency of over reporting fires involving Tesla vehicle versus 381 00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:16,880 Speaker 1: other brands. But you cannot just dismiss also all Tesla fires, 382 00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:20,240 Speaker 1: because if a Tesla vehicle catches on fire without any 383 00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:23,840 Speaker 1: impact another crash, just being plugged in into a charger, 384 00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:26,479 Speaker 1: then it is something that needs to be investigated and 385 00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:28,720 Speaker 1: it's newsworthy. So of course the media is going to 386 00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:31,720 Speaker 1: report on it. It's crazy to just think that they wouldn't. 387 00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:34,800 Speaker 1: So I was just trying to bring some perspective. I 388 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:37,960 Speaker 1: reported a bit more negatively on some moves that Tesla did, 389 00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:41,200 Speaker 1: specifically the announcement that they're going to close Tesla stores, 390 00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:43,760 Speaker 1: which I thought it made no sense. But then I 391 00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:45,960 Speaker 1: started looking at my own polling and I was like, 392 00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:48,919 Speaker 1: do okay, sure people buy online? But how many of 393 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:51,399 Speaker 1: those the bar online went into a Tesla store first, 394 00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:54,720 Speaker 1: talked to Tesla employees, got a test right with employees 395 00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:56,400 Speaker 1: and all that. So I was like, this doesn't make 396 00:20:56,440 --> 00:21:00,679 Speaker 1: sense to me. And sure enough the backtrack of closing 397 00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:05,160 Speaker 1: all stores and then the sort of hid a compensation slash, 398 00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:09,160 Speaker 1: like they slashed all the compensation for sales workers back then. Yeah, 399 00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:11,280 Speaker 1: so I reported on that. I was like, this was 400 00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:14,480 Speaker 1: a hidden way to cut their compensation, and Elon didn't 401 00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:17,280 Speaker 1: like that. Around that time, even he was supposed to 402 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:19,240 Speaker 1: call me, like I got a call from his chief 403 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:20,879 Speaker 1: of staff saying that Elon wanted to talk to me 404 00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:23,160 Speaker 1: about those articles and all that, and then he gave 405 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:24,719 Speaker 1: me the run around for like two days and then 406 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:26,879 Speaker 1: never called me. I guess you want to really like. 407 00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:29,439 Speaker 2: To he never called you to ask you how you 408 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:32,240 Speaker 2: got so bullied into being good. 409 00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:35,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, that comment is in interesting, like that I got 410 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:41,840 Speaker 1: shamed by internet trolls into becoming Antitesla. I think that. 411 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:44,200 Speaker 1: I think that applies to him these days. 412 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:48,879 Speaker 2: I wanted to get broader here because of course Elon 413 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:52,480 Speaker 2: is both the CEO of the company and the slargean 414 00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:55,439 Speaker 2: line figure. He's also and maybe it's around this time 415 00:21:56,080 --> 00:22:00,600 Speaker 2: becomes like the leader of this very very powerful kind 416 00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:03,280 Speaker 2: of like extremely online army. I know you were later 417 00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:05,679 Speaker 2: attacked by a bunch of these, a bunch of the 418 00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:09,080 Speaker 2: sort of Tesla influencers. This guy, you know hol Mar's blog. 419 00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:11,840 Speaker 2: This guy has said some very terrible things. You're a 420 00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:14,080 Speaker 2: horrible person with no sense for the damage you do 421 00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:15,520 Speaker 2: if you fell at the face of the earth. 422 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:18,439 Speaker 3: Sorry, what do you make of that? These guys what 423 00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:21,760 Speaker 3: led to this bile? Yeah, at first. 424 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:25,000 Speaker 1: It was, but then I started to rationalize it a 425 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:27,640 Speaker 1: little bit, like understanding like where they came from, and 426 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:31,439 Speaker 1: so quickly I was more interested in the how it 427 00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:34,719 Speaker 1: came together than the actual impact on me. Like I 428 00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:36,840 Speaker 1: have pretty tick skin. I'm able to handle that stuff, 429 00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:38,560 Speaker 1: so it's not that big of a problem. But to 430 00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:41,719 Speaker 1: understand because I was one of them at one point, Like, 431 00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:44,920 Speaker 1: I'm pretty comfortable admitting that I was part of that problem, 432 00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:47,800 Speaker 1: that building that culture at Tesla, culture that now has 433 00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:51,520 Speaker 1: went a little bit overborne in my opinion, because at 434 00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:54,760 Speaker 1: time Tesla was the underdog. Tesla was like a small 435 00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:58,560 Speaker 1: company at the verge of bankruptcy several times, so us 436 00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:01,840 Speaker 1: as Tesla fans we felt in need to prevent that 437 00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:04,160 Speaker 1: from happening. We prevent Tesla from dying because we see 438 00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:07,600 Speaker 1: Tesla as a very important company to transition the world 439 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:10,879 Speaker 1: to sustenable sustainability, which I still think is true. By 440 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:15,800 Speaker 1: the way, So without Tesla, there's no USSEV market, Like 441 00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:19,399 Speaker 1: it's half of that size it is, so it's an 442 00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:22,920 Speaker 1: important company. I think that's not arguable. So we were 443 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:25,600 Speaker 1: fighting for the company to survive, so fighting against minster 444 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:29,480 Speaker 1: information about it, finding of our overblowing bad news about 445 00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:33,280 Speaker 1: the company, fighting of all that stuff. But as the company, like, 446 00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:36,040 Speaker 1: the company got out of that. Now it's worth half 447 00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:40,119 Speaker 1: a trillion dollar. It's a profitable company. So things that 448 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:42,920 Speaker 1: have changed. And some people, some of these Tesla fans, 449 00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:44,840 Speaker 1: I think, are stuck in that mode and that like 450 00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:47,280 Speaker 1: survival mode of Tesla being the underdog and I want 451 00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:49,640 Speaker 1: to so they are a little bit more rabid about it, 452 00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:53,399 Speaker 1: are more aggressive, and I was like, hey, we want 453 00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:55,760 Speaker 1: like Tesla is now like a huge company as a 454 00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:59,000 Speaker 1: giant impact A mission is not accomplished completely, but the 455 00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:02,280 Speaker 1: mission to accelerate the inventor of the electric transportation certainly 456 00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:04,520 Speaker 1: has been done. With the media has changed a lot 457 00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:06,560 Speaker 1: during that time too, to be honest, Yeah, like back 458 00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:08,680 Speaker 1: then there was only US, but now there's a bunch 459 00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:11,160 Speaker 1: of media that focused just on evs. But I think 460 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:13,760 Speaker 1: the two main thing was like media not necessarily being 461 00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:16,800 Speaker 1: malicious about Tesla, but just not understanding the company well 462 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:19,480 Speaker 1: enough to report on it correctly for a certain period 463 00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:21,720 Speaker 1: of time. I think that's changed. Not I mean Bloomberg. 464 00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:25,360 Speaker 1: You guys have like several journalists that work just Teslas. 465 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:28,960 Speaker 1: We have a whole podcast, right, Yeah, So it's things 466 00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:31,840 Speaker 1: that changed. You didn't have that ten years ago. And 467 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:35,360 Speaker 1: the other thing is obviously the shorts, like the short sellers. 468 00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:39,040 Speaker 1: The Tesla has been a long time, was the most 469 00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:42,280 Speaker 1: shorted stock on the Nasdaq. So you have a clear 470 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:45,080 Speaker 1: enemy then when you're a Tesla fans, Yeah, these guys 471 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:49,199 Speaker 1: want Tesla to fail. They are betting for Tesla to fail. 472 00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:52,600 Speaker 1: And these guys, some of them were i think, doing 473 00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:55,520 Speaker 1: real bad stuff, spreading misinformation about the campaigning. And I 474 00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:58,080 Speaker 1: think there's real bear cases on Tesla. So I'm not 475 00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:00,199 Speaker 1: saying that all shorts are bad or anything like that. So, 476 00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:03,159 Speaker 1: but some of them would amplify bad news on Tesla. 477 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:05,080 Speaker 2: A single story of a fire or something and it 478 00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:07,600 Speaker 2: turns into this whole like you know, and try to turn. 479 00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:09,560 Speaker 1: Into yeah exactly. And there was a lot of that 480 00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:11,919 Speaker 1: happening that needed to have a comfort balance to it. 481 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:14,040 Speaker 1: So I was part of that comfort balance. So that's 482 00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:17,439 Speaker 1: how I saw myself. But then I think a lot 483 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:20,360 Speaker 1: of people are now still stuck in that mentality, and 484 00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:22,640 Speaker 1: that's where you see some of these Tesla fan being 485 00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:25,080 Speaker 1: very rather Yeah, Tesla fans now have a bad reputation 486 00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:28,080 Speaker 1: because of it. I think it's it's arguably worse for 487 00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:28,840 Speaker 1: the company. Now. 488 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:31,160 Speaker 2: The reason I wanted to have this conversation we talked 489 00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:32,439 Speaker 2: a couple of years ago, and just as I was 490 00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:34,400 Speaker 2: trying to think through another story I was working on 491 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:37,160 Speaker 2: about the kind of culture of Tesla fandom. I don't 492 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:39,360 Speaker 2: know if you'll remember this, but I think i'd ask, 493 00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:40,959 Speaker 2: is there a cult of Tesla? And you said, well, 494 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:42,879 Speaker 2: there are two cults. There's a cult of Elon and 495 00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:45,480 Speaker 2: then there's the cult of Tesla. How do you separate 496 00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:47,439 Speaker 2: those two, those two groups, or how do you think 497 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:48,080 Speaker 2: about them? 498 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:51,320 Speaker 1: I mean, Elon has complicated things a lot for Tesla 499 00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:55,399 Speaker 1: by firing the PR team for example. Now Elon is 500 00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:58,719 Speaker 1: the sole mild piece of Tesla. So he is, like 501 00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:01,840 Speaker 1: you said, he's linked to the company, so that that 502 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:04,240 Speaker 1: makes it very hard for Tesla to you try to 503 00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:06,399 Speaker 1: create any kind of distance with Emon. Not that I'm 504 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:08,600 Speaker 1: saying that he would want to at this point, I think, 505 00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:12,640 Speaker 1: i't know, especially like the shareholder vote in June made 506 00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:15,240 Speaker 1: it made it clear that he has the backing of shareholders, right, 507 00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:17,800 Speaker 1: I don't know. What about the cult of Tesla, maybe 508 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:19,399 Speaker 1: the cult of the Tesla stock too. I think I 509 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:21,199 Speaker 1: think a lot of people are all in in the 510 00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:24,280 Speaker 1: Tesla stock, so that's problematic. It will skew your vision 511 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:26,160 Speaker 1: of the company when you're all in on the company. 512 00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:30,720 Speaker 1: But the Elon obviously Elon's own cult of personality as 513 00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:33,320 Speaker 1: of old a lot in recent years. Now he's a 514 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:36,000 Speaker 1: hero of the right to some degree or at least 515 00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:39,160 Speaker 1: with some people I'm old enough to remember, like Mitch 516 00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:42,200 Speaker 1: Rumney calling him a loser or Tesla loser for taking 517 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:43,480 Speaker 1: a loan from the government. 518 00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:44,880 Speaker 3: And Barack Obama defending him. 519 00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:49,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, I remember that. I remember big truckers like blocking 520 00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:53,800 Speaker 1: supercharger station, like saying to f F Tesla, and now 521 00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:55,560 Speaker 1: it's the other way around. Now you have left wing 522 00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:59,160 Speaker 1: people doing graffiti on cyber trucks saying f Elon's it's 523 00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:02,159 Speaker 1: it's a weird like the polls that inverted it. 524 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:05,280 Speaker 2: Like, so, is it like the ven diagram separated at 525 00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:07,560 Speaker 2: some point and maybe started to drift apart, where like 526 00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:09,760 Speaker 2: at one point, if you were a fan of Tesla, 527 00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:11,640 Speaker 2: you were a fan of Elon, and then they've they've 528 00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:12,800 Speaker 2: started to split. 529 00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:15,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's fair because I'm still a fan 530 00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:17,680 Speaker 1: of Tesla, but I would have a hard time calling 531 00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:19,720 Speaker 1: myself a fan of Elon at this point. 532 00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:23,040 Speaker 2: We talked about this kind of a shift that's that 533 00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:27,760 Speaker 2: started happening, like you said, maybe late twenty nineteen, around 534 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:31,480 Speaker 2: getting taking a more aggressive approach to I guess, like 535 00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:34,240 Speaker 2: to battling who he saw as the haters. 536 00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:37,120 Speaker 3: But also there's been this like political shift. I mean, 537 00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:38,520 Speaker 3: when you meet. 538 00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:40,480 Speaker 2: Somebody at a dinner party or whatever doesn't follow this, 539 00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:42,640 Speaker 2: I'm guessing their first question is what happened to Elon 540 00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:44,480 Speaker 2: Musk And I'm curious, what do you say? 541 00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:46,600 Speaker 3: What do you think has happened to him? 542 00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:48,879 Speaker 1: I follow him every day and I see it. The 543 00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:52,600 Speaker 1: guy is addicted to social media. There's no doubt about it. 544 00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:56,439 Speaker 1: I am on X all the time. My girlfriend tells me, like, 545 00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:58,199 Speaker 1: what are you doing? You're still an X put your 546 00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:01,960 Speaker 1: phone down. And I created my EX account a month 547 00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:04,880 Speaker 1: before Elon in two thousand and nine. I have six 548 00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:08,000 Speaker 1: thousand posts on my EX account. Elon's as forty five 549 00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:11,159 Speaker 1: thousand accounts. So if I'm using X too much, he's 550 00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:12,600 Speaker 1: definitely using X too much. 551 00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:15,119 Speaker 2: You don't understand if he had ten thousand tweets, but 552 00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:17,960 Speaker 2: forty five thousand seems like he's gone too far. 553 00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:21,120 Speaker 1: And then when I post that, like, people come back 554 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:23,840 Speaker 1: to me, is this is nothing like holmars Blower effects 555 00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:27,080 Speaker 1: that pull us three hundred thousand tweets in just three years. 556 00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:30,119 Speaker 1: I'm like, yep, And I think he also addicted to 557 00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:33,399 Speaker 1: social media. And if you have that kind of post 558 00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:36,600 Speaker 1: on on X, it is problematic. And I kept a 559 00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:39,440 Speaker 1: hope that maybe it will adjust, You will adjust over time, 560 00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:42,240 Speaker 1: because the feedback that he got from social media was 561 00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:45,000 Speaker 1: always so valuable to him in his companies, but now 562 00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:47,480 Speaker 1: the way that you started using it. Sometimes he's just 563 00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:50,960 Speaker 1: he would see someone would post a quote that he did, 564 00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:53,360 Speaker 1: that he said, or like a video of him like 565 00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:56,920 Speaker 1: saying something, and then he will respond to that exactly. 566 00:28:57,440 --> 00:28:59,560 Speaker 1: What is that You just listen to yourself talking and 567 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:02,320 Speaker 1: then you approve of yourself. That's such a weird, weird 568 00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:03,880 Speaker 1: way to use social media. 569 00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:06,360 Speaker 3: Listen, he's he's the number one fan in the Elon 570 00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:07,160 Speaker 3: Musk fan club. 571 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:09,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, you know, it's good to be a 572 00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:13,360 Speaker 1: number one fan. But I think there's an approach that's 573 00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:16,280 Speaker 1: healthy and one that's not so healthy. And on social 574 00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:18,720 Speaker 1: media it's so easy to I'm not blaming him that 575 00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:21,600 Speaker 1: much because I think it's easy to fall into those traps. 576 00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:24,120 Speaker 1: But I thought, maybe, like he's a very smart guy, 577 00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:26,440 Speaker 1: maybe it'll find a way out of this. But then 578 00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:29,840 Speaker 1: he bought the platform, and that of like, no, he's 579 00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:34,960 Speaker 1: financially incentivized his on addiction and also he's incentivized to 580 00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:37,280 Speaker 1: downplay social media addiction because he's on it. 581 00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:44,040 Speaker 2: Elon Musk has obviously shifted to the right. I'm not 582 00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:46,840 Speaker 2: sure I totally believe this, but Galaxy brain thinking here 583 00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:51,760 Speaker 2: eves are really big among progressives and liberals in California 584 00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:55,120 Speaker 2: or whatever. Elon Musk genius that he is, decided to 585 00:29:55,200 --> 00:30:00,239 Speaker 2: redpill himself in order to bring Republicans and Texans and 586 00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:02,840 Speaker 2: the Red States and the you know, the Trump fans 587 00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:05,080 Speaker 2: of the world along to the EV movement. Could you 588 00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:07,680 Speaker 2: make a case that this kind of wacky change is 589 00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:10,640 Speaker 2: as weird as it is and and maybe personally painful 590 00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:12,600 Speaker 2: as it is, actually might be good for the company. 591 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:15,680 Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, I'm looking at the test of sales. 592 00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:19,720 Speaker 1: I'm tracking them pretty closely, and no, the I understand 593 00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:21,920 Speaker 1: what you're saying. And I mean, I'm sure that maybe 594 00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:25,720 Speaker 1: he used that to justify some of the move himself. 595 00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:28,360 Speaker 1: It's the possibility that it went through his brain at 596 00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:30,520 Speaker 1: one point. It's like maybe I could. It's a new 597 00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:33,080 Speaker 1: market to address, Like this is the right wing market 598 00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:36,240 Speaker 1: that hasn't been a big fan of EV's. But I 599 00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:39,560 Speaker 1: don't buy it because eventually, the whole thing about this 600 00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:42,640 Speaker 1: is making an EV that doesn't have any compromise. It's 601 00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:44,600 Speaker 1: the best vehicle you can buy, Like that's the goal 602 00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:46,200 Speaker 1: of Tesla, making the best eicle you can buy, and 603 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:48,040 Speaker 1: it happens to be electric, so that happens to solve 604 00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:51,400 Speaker 1: a problem, happens to go through emission. So eventually everyone 605 00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:53,640 Speaker 1: is going to see that I've tested all the electric 606 00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:56,239 Speaker 1: vehicles out there. I'll talk to the hotel makers and 607 00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:58,920 Speaker 1: all the engineer on the engineering side. Everyone's grease on 608 00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:01,440 Speaker 1: the design side too. They were like, if we want 609 00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:03,440 Speaker 1: to make the best car we can make right now, 610 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:05,280 Speaker 1: we need to make it electric. It's the only way 611 00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:08,080 Speaker 1: to do the best car we can So everything was 612 00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:11,440 Speaker 1: going that way anyway. I think is moved to the right, 613 00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:14,320 Speaker 1: you know, And you would obviously argue that the rest 614 00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:15,800 Speaker 1: of the world has moved to the left, and he 615 00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:18,600 Speaker 1: has never moved from the center. But yeah, definitely, I 616 00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:22,480 Speaker 1: think align himself more with the right, and I think 617 00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:25,400 Speaker 1: he got upset by the left. I think things like 618 00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:28,640 Speaker 1: I remember the EV summit at the White House. That's 619 00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:30,960 Speaker 1: not being invited. He took a slight at that. 620 00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:35,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the snub heard around the world. So I 621 00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:37,240 Speaker 2: want to talk about the future and kind of like 622 00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:40,960 Speaker 2: where this is going. We have this ROBOTAXI unveiling coming 623 00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:44,640 Speaker 2: up later this summer. Elon, during and Ernie's call earlier 624 00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:47,080 Speaker 2: this year, you know, said, if you're thinking about Tesla 625 00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:49,959 Speaker 2: as a car company, you like shouldn't even bother being 626 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:53,240 Speaker 2: an investor, and like it really does feel like he's 627 00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:56,080 Speaker 2: in the company still sells cars, but in some ways 628 00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:59,280 Speaker 2: he's turning away from that and do you think is 629 00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:01,280 Speaker 2: that what's going on? I mean, is that view of 630 00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:04,160 Speaker 2: Tesla the correct view? Is it where it's going? Are 631 00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:06,120 Speaker 2: we making a mistake? Are we just going to be 632 00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:08,320 Speaker 2: a few years from now, just like Optimist is going 633 00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:10,800 Speaker 2: to be doing my laundry and taking care of my kids. 634 00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:12,520 Speaker 2: And I'll just think it was very quaint that we 635 00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:14,080 Speaker 2: were talking about electric cars back then. 636 00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:17,959 Speaker 1: I mean, Tesla's core business is still an ergy vehicles, 637 00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:21,520 Speaker 1: There's no doubt about it. Obviously if you follow the 638 00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:25,000 Speaker 1: AI space, it's moving at a pace that's insane right now. 639 00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:27,400 Speaker 1: So a lot of companies are trying to attach themselves 640 00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:29,960 Speaker 1: to that, whether it's just for optics or whether it's 641 00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:33,120 Speaker 1: there's actual use case for it. I think for Tesla 642 00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:37,360 Speaker 1: there Tesla as some expertise in terms of like power density, 643 00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:40,520 Speaker 1: energy density that would be useful in the HUMANUD robot, 644 00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:45,120 Speaker 1: compute density and compute efficiency with the Tesla's self driving 645 00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:47,480 Speaker 1: computer instide of cars. All these things they make sense 646 00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:51,600 Speaker 1: for a humanited robot, and the timing doesn't. I'm not 647 00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:53,840 Speaker 1: going to pull out my crystal ball here, but with 648 00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:57,000 Speaker 1: the pace of innovation in the AI, it would make 649 00:32:57,080 --> 00:33:01,560 Speaker 1: sense to have that AI in increasingly more advanced robots, 650 00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:04,440 Speaker 1: and the dream is that you manuate robots. So there's 651 00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:07,800 Speaker 1: another thing that makes sense. The timing looks good. At 652 00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:09,920 Speaker 1: the same time, you can also make the argument from 653 00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:13,840 Speaker 1: the bearcase is that you know Tesla's car businesses plateau 654 00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:16,560 Speaker 1: wing if not crashing a little bit right now, so 655 00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:20,440 Speaker 1: the stock is having some problems, but it's for optics 656 00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:24,080 Speaker 1: the testa to move to AI and to move into robots, 657 00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:27,160 Speaker 1: so that argument is not bat one either. They both 658 00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:28,880 Speaker 1: make sense. So it's at the end of the day, 659 00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:30,560 Speaker 1: it's going to be the execution. I think that's going 660 00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:30,760 Speaker 1: to do. 661 00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:35,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, you're bringing up all of these challenges delivering a 662 00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:40,000 Speaker 2: a ROBOTAXI however you envision that or whatever. 663 00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:41,960 Speaker 3: And I think the question is is Elon the guy 664 00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:42,479 Speaker 3: to do it? 665 00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:45,320 Speaker 2: I mean, I think if we're having this conversation a 666 00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:47,800 Speaker 2: year ago or two years ago, and certainly ten years ago, 667 00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:50,200 Speaker 2: that would be a crazy question. But I feel like 668 00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:52,960 Speaker 2: now the question of like, should Elon must be running 669 00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:56,280 Speaker 2: Tesla now? Clearly the vote on the pay package shows 670 00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:59,360 Speaker 2: that most investors think he should continue to run tests. 671 00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:01,720 Speaker 2: But I do think there you could make the other argument. 672 00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:04,920 Speaker 2: I'm curious where what you think, I mean, at what 673 00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:08,200 Speaker 2: point should and what would have to happen for for 674 00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:12,560 Speaker 2: somebody like you, somebody who cares about ev would contemplate, Oh. 675 00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:16,600 Speaker 1: I'm contemplating. I wouldn't know. On the the pay package. 676 00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:19,240 Speaker 1: I think it's time for Elon to take a step 677 00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:24,959 Speaker 1: back from Tesla. I think people are overestimating is direct 678 00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:28,000 Speaker 1: contribution to the company. I think he is undoubtedly a 679 00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:31,640 Speaker 1: part time CEO at this point. He's CEO of three 680 00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:34,640 Speaker 1: other major companies, and the fact the leaders of a 681 00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:37,400 Speaker 1: bunch of others. Even if he has one hundred dollars weeks, 682 00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:39,920 Speaker 1: he's still not, you know, spending full time at Tesla. 683 00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:43,240 Speaker 1: So I think there's value to having a full time CEO. 684 00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:46,279 Speaker 1: I'm not saying that Elon should not be a part 685 00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:47,000 Speaker 1: of Tesla anymore. 686 00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:49,960 Speaker 3: Maybe a chairman instead of a CEO or something. 687 00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:53,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean many he said that was a completely 688 00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:57,279 Speaker 1: useless role that shouldn't exist, and then yet approved the 689 00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:00,200 Speaker 1: five hundred million dollar package for the current chirwoman of 690 00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:03,279 Speaker 1: the company. So I don't know why you would do 691 00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:05,279 Speaker 1: that other than the fact that she's backing his own 692 00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:08,960 Speaker 1: fifty five billion dollars package. Like weird, but you know, 693 00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:11,200 Speaker 1: On himself has suggested that he could take a step 694 00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:13,400 Speaker 1: back from see you at some point and become just 695 00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:15,760 Speaker 1: a product architect, and I do tell him that Elon 696 00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:17,480 Speaker 1: has a lot of value as a visionary. I think 697 00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:19,680 Speaker 1: he's a great visionaire and he should have a role 698 00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:21,840 Speaker 1: at Test on that front. But I don't think he 699 00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:23,759 Speaker 1: should be the sole mod piece of Tesla like he 700 00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:25,879 Speaker 1: is right now, and since he has killed the PR 701 00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:28,239 Speaker 1: department and Tesla that has been the case. I think 702 00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:33,160 Speaker 1: that Tesla should be stronger with a PR department, another spokesperson, yeah, 703 00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:36,680 Speaker 1: and a full time CEO that can push the execution 704 00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:40,799 Speaker 1: of this vision that he has that I support. There's 705 00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:42,600 Speaker 1: a good argument that Elon shouldn't be the end of 706 00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:46,560 Speaker 1: Tesla anymore. Is knee jerk firing of the entire charging 707 00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:52,200 Speaker 1: team who undoubtedly pulled the best charging network in the 708 00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:55,000 Speaker 1: old world. Just don't see it happening. I think Elon 709 00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:58,200 Speaker 1: has a firm grip on Tesla right now. He has 710 00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:03,759 Speaker 1: a strong base of shareholders the support him, So we're 711 00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:06,120 Speaker 1: gonna have to deal with that. It's gonna be. It's 712 00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:08,799 Speaker 1: gonna be the Elon schauffeur at least a little while longer. 713 00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:12,120 Speaker 3: All right, Frederick Lambert, thank you for being here. 714 00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:15,680 Speaker 2: He is the editor in chief of Electric Great conversation 715 00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:18,440 Speaker 2: and we will let's just stay in touch. Would love 716 00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:20,680 Speaker 2: to have you back to talk about the next turn 717 00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:21,320 Speaker 2: of this screw. 718 00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:22,000 Speaker 3: Thank you again. 719 00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:25,799 Speaker 1: I'm sure there's always plenty of talk about Elon. Thanks mix. 720 00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:36,840 Speaker 4: This episode was produced by Stacey Wong. Naomi Shaven and 721 00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:40,919 Speaker 4: Rayhan harmanci Are are senior editors. The idea for this very 722 00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:44,880 Speaker 4: show also came from Rayhan Blake Maple's Handles Engineering, and 723 00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:48,320 Speaker 4: we get special editing assistants from Jeff Grocott, Antonia Muffarech 724 00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:52,800 Speaker 4: and Rafat Jalasho Perry. Our supervising producer is Magnus Hendrickson. 725 00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:54,399 Speaker 4: The Elon Inc. 726 00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:55,640 Speaker 3: Theme is written and. 727 00:36:55,640 --> 00:37:00,680 Speaker 4: Performed by Taka Yasuzawa and Alex Sugujura. Brendan Franz Newnham 728 00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:03,640 Speaker 4: is our executive producer, and Sage Bauman is the head 729 00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:06,640 Speaker 4: of Bloomberg Podcast. A big thank you to our supporter 730 00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:10,560 Speaker 4: Joel Weber. I'm David Papadopoulos. If you have a minute, 731 00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:13,680 Speaker 4: rate and review our show, it'll help other listeners find us. 732 00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:14,799 Speaker 3: See you next week.