1 00:00:01,080 --> 00:00:04,000 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class from how 2 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:13,000 Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot Com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. 3 00:00:13,119 --> 00:00:16,360 Speaker 1: I'm Tracy V. Wilson and I'm Holly Frying. While we 4 00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:19,079 Speaker 1: researched this podcast, you and I uncover the things that 5 00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:24,640 Speaker 1: surprise us basically all the time, for sure. So sometimes though, 6 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 1: we discover things that surprise us, and the fact that 7 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:31,760 Speaker 1: we are just learning this is also in itself surprising 8 00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:34,240 Speaker 1: because we should have known about that before because of 9 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:37,760 Speaker 1: various things in our background. In this case, my mom 10 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 1: spent most of her career working with people who had 11 00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:43,960 Speaker 1: a range of disabilities. For she was a teacher for 12 00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:47,040 Speaker 1: adults with disabilities, and then she worked in a couple 13 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:51,240 Speaker 1: of different roles at a residential care center for children 14 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:54,400 Speaker 1: who had multiple disabilities, most of whom really needed full 15 00:00:54,440 --> 00:00:58,960 Speaker 1: time care. My aunt also taught third grade special education 16 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:02,960 Speaker 1: for nearly her whole teaching career. And one of my 17 00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 1: first jobs as a writer was writing for a company 18 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:09,200 Speaker 1: that sold educational supplies, and they had a whole business 19 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:12,640 Speaker 1: unit that dealt specifically with products for children who had 20 00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:15,839 Speaker 1: special needs. And yet, in spite of all of that 21 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:19,160 Speaker 1: family history, I was surprised to learn from a listener 22 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:23,919 Speaker 1: email that until ninety children with disabilities in the United 23 00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:28,360 Speaker 1: States were not guaranteed a public education. Listener Amy wrote 24 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 1: in to tell us about this aspect of Brown versus 25 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:34,200 Speaker 1: Board that I hadn't known about before. After the Supreme 26 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:37,399 Speaker 1: Court ruling that the practice of segregation based on race 27 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:41,959 Speaker 1: was unconstitutional came out, it sparked a similar series of 28 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:44,360 Speaker 1: cases that were related to children who were at that 29 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 1: point either segregated into different classrooms or restricted from public 30 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:53,040 Speaker 1: schools entirely because they had a disability. So that is 31 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:55,240 Speaker 1: what we're going to talk about today, And as a 32 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:57,760 Speaker 1: caveat before we start, the language that we used to 33 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:01,840 Speaker 1: talk about disabilities has evolved so much since the nineteen 34 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:05,880 Speaker 1: sixties and seventies, so particularly in quoted material from court 35 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:09,400 Speaker 1: proceedings and laws, this episode includes some terminology that we 36 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:12,160 Speaker 1: would not use today. Today This would be considered insulting 37 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 1: or offensive. We're gonna note those as they come up, 38 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:18,200 Speaker 1: but just as an advanced warning their words were going 39 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:21,360 Speaker 1: to use that today we absolutely would not be using 40 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:26,600 Speaker 1: in that way. So UH to kick it off, The 41 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 1: first US state to pass a compulsory school attendance law 42 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:33,400 Speaker 1: was Massachusetts, and it did so in eighteen fifty two, 43 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:35,760 Speaker 1: having passed a similar law when it was still a 44 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:38,560 Speaker 1: British colony more than two hundred years prior to that. 45 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:42,920 Speaker 1: Other states followed suit, and these laws required children in 46 00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:46,079 Speaker 1: a specific age range to attend school, and parents whose 47 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 1: children didn't go to school or get an equivalent education 48 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:55,200 Speaker 1: at home faced prosecution. However, most states granted exceptions to 49 00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:58,600 Speaker 1: their compulsory attendance laws in the cases of children who 50 00:02:58,639 --> 00:03:02,120 Speaker 1: had disabilities. These children weren't permitted to enroll in public 51 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:04,800 Speaker 1: schools at all, or if they were allowed to enroll 52 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:08,600 Speaker 1: in school, they were kept in separate, segregated classrooms away 53 00:03:08,639 --> 00:03:12,359 Speaker 1: from other children, regardless of the nature of their disability 54 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:16,760 Speaker 1: or what kind of education that they needed. School systems 55 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:19,920 Speaker 1: had different rules for determining who could be excluded, but 56 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:24,639 Speaker 1: in general, students deemed to be quote uneducable were not 57 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:27,840 Speaker 1: allowed to enroll. Laws were all over the place when 58 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:31,560 Speaker 1: it came to defining who exactly could be categorized as 59 00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:34,840 Speaker 1: unedgegcable UH. In some cases it was an i Q 60 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 1: below a certain number, but there were states that labeled 61 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:41,280 Speaker 1: a range of disabilities that had absolutely nothing to do 62 00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 1: with the ability to learn as unedgecable, and that is 63 00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:49,960 Speaker 1: not a label we would use anymore. Children who were 64 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:54,840 Speaker 1: excluded from school mostly stayed home or were institutionalized. Many 65 00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 1: of these institutionalized children did not actually need full time 66 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:01,320 Speaker 1: care because of their disablinelities, and even if they did, 67 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:04,320 Speaker 1: the institutions that existed in the nineteenth and early twentieth 68 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:07,200 Speaker 1: centuries were not equipped to give that kind of care. 69 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 1: In general, these facilities just provided housing, minimal food, inattentive care, 70 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:16,279 Speaker 1: and virtually no education for the children who lived there. 71 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:20,359 Speaker 1: Even after the Supreme Court ruled in Brown versus Board 72 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:23,760 Speaker 1: that schools could not be segregated based on race, other 73 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:27,360 Speaker 1: courts were finding that segregation based on ability was allowed. 74 00:04:27,880 --> 00:04:31,560 Speaker 1: In the Illinois Supreme Court ruled that the state's compulsory 75 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:36,039 Speaker 1: education laws did not apply to children with disabilities. In 76 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:39,120 Speaker 1: North Carolina, it was a crime for parents whose children 77 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:42,440 Speaker 1: had already been excluded because of a disability to try 78 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:46,080 Speaker 1: again at enrolling them. This law was actually in effect 79 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 1: all the way until nineteen sixty nine. So apart from 80 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 1: the fact that children were being denied in education, the 81 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:57,120 Speaker 1: Supreme Court opinion in Brown versus Board had outlined very 82 00:04:57,160 --> 00:05:00,440 Speaker 1: eloquently a number of ways in which segregation and based 83 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:04,080 Speaker 1: on race was psychologically harmful, and it seems to a 84 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:06,039 Speaker 1: lot of people that the same would be true in 85 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 1: the case of segregation based on ability. For example, if 86 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:11,440 Speaker 1: you just changed the word race to ability in this 87 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 1: sentence from the ruling quote, to separate them from others 88 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:18,240 Speaker 1: of similar age and qualifications solely because of their race 89 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:21,200 Speaker 1: generates a feeling of inferiority as to their status in 90 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:23,920 Speaker 1: the community that may affect their hearts and minds in 91 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:27,800 Speaker 1: a way unlikely ever to be undone end quote. So, 92 00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:30,600 Speaker 1: if being put in a separate classroom made black children 93 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:34,760 Speaker 1: feel inferior to white children, logically people thought it would 94 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:37,280 Speaker 1: do the same in the case of children who had 95 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:39,800 Speaker 1: a disability who were being separated from the rest of 96 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:43,440 Speaker 1: the school, and the same questions were on the minds 97 00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:47,080 Speaker 1: of legislators, and the US started to pass a variety 98 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 1: of laws that addressed various aspects of education for disabled students. 99 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:55,480 Speaker 1: In the late nineteen fifties, new laws provided teacher training 100 00:05:55,520 --> 00:05:58,480 Speaker 1: programs for working with blind and deaf students, as well 101 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:03,400 Speaker 1: as captioned films and are accessible teaching materials. Not long 102 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:07,000 Speaker 1: before his assassination in nineteen sixty three, President John F. 103 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 1: Kennedy signed two pieces of legislation that were related to 104 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 1: this subject. One was an amendment to the Social Security Act, 105 00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:17,800 Speaker 1: which expanded programs for mothers and children in an effort 106 00:06:17,839 --> 00:06:21,719 Speaker 1: to prevent intellectual disabilities, which are things like screening programs 107 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:25,440 Speaker 1: and nutrition programs that I aimed at prevention. The other 108 00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:29,840 Speaker 1: was the Mental Retardation and Community Mental Health Centers Construction 109 00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:34,800 Speaker 1: Act of nineteen sixty three. This funded research and programs, 110 00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:39,440 Speaker 1: including the training of special education teachers. Then, as a 111 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:43,520 Speaker 1: part of his War on poverty, President Lyndon Johnson signed 112 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:47,040 Speaker 1: the Elementary and Secondary Education Act into law in nineteen 113 00:06:47,080 --> 00:06:51,200 Speaker 1: sixty five, and this law was meant to address student inequality, 114 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:54,800 Speaker 1: especially when it came to children from financially disadvantaged families. 115 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:58,400 Speaker 1: In nineteen sixty six, this law was amended to include 116 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:02,440 Speaker 1: two parts related to students with disabilities. It established the 117 00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:06,279 Speaker 1: Bureau of Education of the Handicapped and the National Advisory Council, 118 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:10,160 Speaker 1: and it created programs for students with disabilities and provided 119 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 1: grant funding for those programs. As a side note, the 120 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:18,480 Speaker 1: Elementary and Secondary Education Act was really controversial at the time. 121 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:23,120 Speaker 1: It increased spending on education really dramatically, and since many 122 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:25,400 Speaker 1: of the poorest children it was meant to help, we're 123 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:28,960 Speaker 1: also racial and ethnic minorities. It raised the hackles of 124 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:31,520 Speaker 1: a lot of the same citizens and lawmakers who had 125 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:35,840 Speaker 1: previously opposed integration, and at that point we're still opposing integration. 126 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:39,960 Speaker 1: This law actually continues to be controversial today. It was 127 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:42,720 Speaker 1: reauthorized in two thousand and two and at that point 128 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:48,520 Speaker 1: renamed No Child Left Behind. Additional laws expanded access to 129 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:52,120 Speaker 1: services through the nineteen sixties and in the early nineteen 130 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:55,840 Speaker 1: seventies to court rulings outlined the idea that all children 131 00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:59,680 Speaker 1: had the right to a free, appropriate public education. We're 132 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:02,040 Speaker 1: gonna talk more about that after we have a quick 133 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 1: word from a sponsor, so to get back to our story. 134 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:07,840 Speaker 1: A number of court cases came about in the nineteen 135 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:10,960 Speaker 1: sixties and seventies that related to the right to an 136 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 1: education for children with disabilities. Two of them have become 137 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:18,040 Speaker 1: really the landmark cases in this field, and they're the 138 00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:21,200 Speaker 1: ones that are sited over and over again. The first 139 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:25,200 Speaker 1: one was the Pennsylvania Association for Retarded Children versus the 140 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:29,760 Speaker 1: Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, also known as Park versus Commonwealth The 141 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 1: Pennsylvania Association for Retarded Children was an advocacy organization for 142 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:38,559 Speaker 1: children with developmental disabilities and their parents. It was at 143 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 1: that point also providing education for most Pennsylvania children with 144 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:46,680 Speaker 1: disabilities who were not being educated in public schools. Under 145 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:49,600 Speaker 1: Pennsylvania law, at this point, children had to have reached 146 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:53,199 Speaker 1: a quote mental age of five years before the age 147 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 1: of eight to start first grade, and schools could deny 148 00:08:56,440 --> 00:09:00,800 Speaker 1: admission to any student who didn't meet that criteria. People 149 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:02,840 Speaker 1: were still talking about mental age a lot when my 150 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:05,480 Speaker 1: mom was still working, but I don't think we do 151 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:10,160 Speaker 1: that anymore. It's a very nebulous thing, the idea of 152 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:13,680 Speaker 1: a mental age, and it's it's not nearly the prevalent 153 00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:17,400 Speaker 1: standard that it used to be. Along with Park, the 154 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:20,720 Speaker 1: parents of thirteen children who had been excluded from school 155 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:23,960 Speaker 1: formed a class action lawsuit with against the Commonwealth of 156 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:27,920 Speaker 1: Pennsylvania quote on behalf of all mentally retarded persons between 157 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:30,439 Speaker 1: the ages of six and twenty one whom the Commonwealth 158 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:33,800 Speaker 1: of Pennsylvania is presently excluding from a program of education 159 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:38,280 Speaker 1: and training in the public schools. Their attorney, Thomas K. Gilhoo, 160 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:42,720 Speaker 1: argued that excluding the children from school was unconstitutional because 161 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:45,920 Speaker 1: it violated the equal protection clause of the Fourteenth Amendment, 162 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:50,200 Speaker 1: so as a quick refresher, The Fourteenth Amendment was one 163 00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:52,640 Speaker 1: of the reconstruction amendments passed in the wake of the 164 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:55,520 Speaker 1: Civil War, in part to help protect the rights of 165 00:09:55,559 --> 00:09:59,280 Speaker 1: recently freed slaves. The end of the first section of 166 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:02,200 Speaker 1: the Amendment in includes both the equal protection and due 167 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:06,840 Speaker 1: process clauses. Quote No State shall make or enforce any 168 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:10,439 Speaker 1: law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens 169 00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:14,040 Speaker 1: of the United States. Nor shall any State deprive any 170 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 1: person of life, liberty, or property without due process of law, 171 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:21,840 Speaker 1: nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal 172 00:10:21,880 --> 00:10:27,199 Speaker 1: protection of the laws. Pennsylvania's defense was basically to cite 173 00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:30,000 Speaker 1: the laws that were already on its books. When was 174 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:32,360 Speaker 1: the law we just talked about that required a mental 175 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:37,360 Speaker 1: age of five years? Another relieved Pennsylvania of the obligation 176 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:42,240 Speaker 1: to educate children who were quote uneducable and quote untrainable. 177 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:46,400 Speaker 1: The Commonwealth also argued that educating these children would create 178 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 1: an undue financial burden on the government of Pennsylvania. The 179 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:53,920 Speaker 1: case was settled before the U. S. District Court for 180 00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:58,760 Speaker 1: the Eastern District of Pennsylvania. Judge Thomas Ambrose Masterson ruled 181 00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:03,160 Speaker 1: that yes, it was constitutional for pensyl Pennsylvania to interfere 182 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:06,800 Speaker 1: in any exceptional child's right to an education, and the 183 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:09,960 Speaker 1: Commonwealth was deemed to be responsible for providing a free 184 00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:12,800 Speaker 1: education for all children between the ages of six and 185 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:17,400 Speaker 1: twenty one, regardless of their ability. The Commonwealth was also 186 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:21,400 Speaker 1: required to offer free preschool to all students regardless of 187 00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:24,920 Speaker 1: ability as well, and if for some reason a school 188 00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:28,560 Speaker 1: system could not provide a free appropriate education for a 189 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:31,600 Speaker 1: child within its own schools, it had to find other 190 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:35,560 Speaker 1: arrangements for that child's education at no cost to the family. 191 00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:40,040 Speaker 1: The other case that's most cited in this context is 192 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:43,240 Speaker 1: Mills versus Board of Education of the District of Columbia 193 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:46,920 Speaker 1: or Mills versus Board. This was another class action suit, 194 00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:49,480 Speaker 1: and this time it involved seven children who had been 195 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:52,720 Speaker 1: excluded from school in the District of Columbia. The case 196 00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:55,480 Speaker 1: is named for plaintiff Peter Mills, who, at the time 197 00:11:55,520 --> 00:11:57,960 Speaker 1: of the proceedings is twelve years old and award of 198 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:02,079 Speaker 1: the district. He had been excluded from school in fourth 199 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:06,760 Speaker 1: grade due to a quote behavior problem. Another plaintiff Dwayne 200 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:09,880 Speaker 1: black Share was also excluded because of a behavior problem, 201 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:12,840 Speaker 1: and the remaining plaintiffs were reported to have been excluded 202 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:17,240 Speaker 1: for a number of intellectual disabilities and medical conditions. The 203 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:20,280 Speaker 1: seven plaintiffs have been trying to get access to public 204 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:23,880 Speaker 1: education for the nineteen seventy one nineteen seventy two school year, 205 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:27,560 Speaker 1: and after failing to get results by going through normal channels, 206 00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:31,160 Speaker 1: filed their suit on September twenty four, nineteen seventy one. 207 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:34,400 Speaker 1: On December twentieth, nineteen seventy one, the court signed an 208 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:37,800 Speaker 1: interim stipulation that four of the plaintiffs get access to 209 00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:40,679 Speaker 1: a public education that would meet their needs by January 210 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:43,520 Speaker 1: three of nineteen seventy two, and that the Board of 211 00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:46,959 Speaker 1: Education take a series of steps to identify other children 212 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:50,520 Speaker 1: in need of special education services and figure out how 213 00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:53,800 Speaker 1: to provide them with an education. The ruling that I 214 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:58,080 Speaker 1: was reading did not get into why only four of 215 00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:02,520 Speaker 1: the children were ordered to be an enrolled in school immediately, 216 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:09,320 Speaker 1: based on the descriptions of the various um plaintiffs that 217 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:12,960 Speaker 1: are included in the in the ruling, I think it 218 00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:16,240 Speaker 1: was just an issue of we need to figure out 219 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:19,560 Speaker 1: more accommodations for these but let's go ahead and get 220 00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:22,280 Speaker 1: these into school. That is sort of my conclusion, but 221 00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:26,720 Speaker 1: it wasn't really spelled out that clearly. However, the Board 222 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:29,960 Speaker 1: of Education missed the Stanuary their deadline, and it continued 223 00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:32,680 Speaker 1: to miss new deadlines that the judge ordered them, and 224 00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:35,120 Speaker 1: so the plaintiffs had to keep bringing the matter back 225 00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:38,559 Speaker 1: before the judge. It dragged on for months before Judge 226 00:13:38,679 --> 00:13:42,000 Speaker 1: Joseph Cornelius Watty ruled that excluding these children was a 227 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:46,160 Speaker 1: violation of their constitutional rights. He cited Brown versus Board 228 00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:48,800 Speaker 1: and Bowling versus Sharpest precedents. Those are all things that 229 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:51,600 Speaker 1: we've talked about during our two parter on Brown versus Board, 230 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:55,320 Speaker 1: along with a number of other civil rights cases, and 231 00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:58,679 Speaker 1: he found that the whole process of excluding children from 232 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:02,920 Speaker 1: school vile related their due process clause of the Fifth Amendment. 233 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:06,000 Speaker 1: We've kind of alluded before to the way the Fourteenth 234 00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:09,560 Speaker 1: Amendment is worded applies to states and not to the 235 00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:12,680 Speaker 1: District of Columbia, which is why this really focused on 236 00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:16,400 Speaker 1: Fifth Amendment rights rather than Fourteenth Amendment rights. And he 237 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:20,480 Speaker 1: finally ordered quote that no child eligible for a publicly 238 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:24,320 Speaker 1: supported education in the district of Columbia public schools shall 239 00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:28,840 Speaker 1: be excluded from a regular public school assignment by a rule, policy, 240 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:31,360 Speaker 1: or practice of the Board of Education of the District 241 00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:35,240 Speaker 1: of Columbia or its agents, unless such child is provided 242 00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:39,680 Speaker 1: a adequate alternative educational services suited to the child's needs, 243 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:44,040 Speaker 1: which may include special education or tuition grants, and be 244 00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:48,600 Speaker 1: a constitutionally adequate prior hearing and periodic review of the 245 00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:54,960 Speaker 1: child's status, progress, and the adequacy of any educational alternative. So, 246 00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:58,400 Speaker 1: to be very short, that says you cannot exclude children 247 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:01,840 Speaker 1: from school without providing um an alternate education that's suitable 248 00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:05,720 Speaker 1: for them, and you can't exclude children from school without 249 00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:08,800 Speaker 1: actually allowing them due process. And that was a problem 250 00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:10,920 Speaker 1: that was happening all over the country where basically a 251 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:14,400 Speaker 1: principle would say this child is excluded from school because 252 00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:17,360 Speaker 1: of this disability, and the child really had no recourse 253 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:20,280 Speaker 1: there was, so there was no due process in that 254 00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:24,080 Speaker 1: in that situation. So this brings us to the first 255 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:29,240 Speaker 1: federal law that guaranteed the same thing UH that Judge 256 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:32,600 Speaker 1: Watty had just UH guaranteed in the District of Columbia. 257 00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:35,080 Speaker 1: And we'll talk about this after another brief word from 258 00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:38,080 Speaker 1: a sponsor, So to get back to this story, and 259 00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:41,800 Speaker 1: when there were actual laws passed that applied all over 260 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:44,520 Speaker 1: the United States. One of the things that was really 261 00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:47,600 Speaker 1: exceptional about Brown versus Board is that it was a 262 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:50,960 Speaker 1: Supreme Court ruling that dramatically and fundamentally changed the way 263 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:54,280 Speaker 1: people lived in their daily lives. One of the questions 264 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 1: that was raised during the Supreme Courts arguments and re 265 00:15:57,080 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 1: arguments and Brown versus Board, and it's actually a question 266 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:03,400 Speaker 1: that still still persists in some people's minds today, is 267 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:06,480 Speaker 1: whether the Court even had the authority to make such 268 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:10,240 Speaker 1: a massive change. Critics argued that that wasn't the court's 269 00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:12,720 Speaker 1: job at all, that it really should have fallen to 270 00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:16,200 Speaker 1: Congress to pass a law to change segregation, not to 271 00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:18,600 Speaker 1: the Court to overturn all of those laws that were 272 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:22,720 Speaker 1: already on the books. Congress did eventually pass civil rights 273 00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:25,320 Speaker 1: legislation that had some things in common with the Brown 274 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:28,560 Speaker 1: versus Board decision, but when it came to children's rights 275 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:32,200 Speaker 1: to an education regardless of disability, Congress took a more 276 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:36,400 Speaker 1: focused approach. In nineteen seventy two, after these and other 277 00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:40,560 Speaker 1: cases had started moving through the courts, Congress introduced legislation 278 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:43,720 Speaker 1: meant to directly address the subject of education for children 279 00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:47,720 Speaker 1: with disabilities. First Congress launched an investigation into the state 280 00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:50,680 Speaker 1: of education for children with disabilities, and these findings were 281 00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:55,240 Speaker 1: kind of shocking to today's sensibilities. Millions of children in 282 00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:58,720 Speaker 1: the United States were effectively being denied a public education 283 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:02,040 Speaker 1: due to a disability, either by being excluded from schools 284 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:05,480 Speaker 1: entirely or by being put into a segregated classroom that 285 00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:09,080 Speaker 1: was not appropriate for their needs. There were, according to 286 00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:13,159 Speaker 1: this investigation, more than eight million children who needed special 287 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:17,199 Speaker 1: education services. Only three point nine million of these children, 288 00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:20,320 Speaker 1: so less than half we're getting an education that was 289 00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:24,320 Speaker 1: appropriate to their needs, One point seven five million children 290 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:27,560 Speaker 1: were receiving an education that wasn't appropriate for their needs, 291 00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:30,880 Speaker 1: and two point five million weren't getting any education at all. 292 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:36,000 Speaker 1: Aside from the basic idea that so many children just 293 00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:39,000 Speaker 1: were not receiving the education that they were entitled to, 294 00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:43,720 Speaker 1: this investigation actually raised another point. By failing to educate 295 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:47,600 Speaker 1: children appropriately, state governments were essentially forcing them to remain 296 00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:51,280 Speaker 1: dependent on other people for their entire lives. The end 297 00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:54,040 Speaker 1: result of this lack of education was that children who 298 00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:57,240 Speaker 1: could have otherwise become independent, were growing up, to rely 299 00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:00,960 Speaker 1: exclusively on public agencies and to expay or dollars in 300 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:05,760 Speaker 1: order to survive. According to the legislative records, the figure 301 00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:08,800 Speaker 1: was cited as billions of dollars spent per year to 302 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:13,760 Speaker 1: keep people in quote subhuman conditions. The Education for All 303 00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:16,760 Speaker 1: Handicapped Children Act of nineteen seventy five, also known as 304 00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:20,040 Speaker 1: Public Law ninety four Dash one forty two, was signed 305 00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:23,600 Speaker 1: into law by President Gerald Ford on November seventeenth, nineteen 306 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 1: seventy five, and it was to take effect by September 307 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:29,679 Speaker 1: one of nineteen seventy eight. This is the law that 308 00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:33,600 Speaker 1: guaranteed all children between the ages of three and twenty 309 00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:37,800 Speaker 1: one be allowed access to a free, appropriate public education, 310 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:43,560 Speaker 1: regardless of whether they had a disability. It had four purposes. 311 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:47,480 Speaker 1: First was quote to assure that all children with disabilities 312 00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:51,440 Speaker 1: have available to them a free, appropriate public education, which 313 00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:55,639 Speaker 1: emphasizes special education and related services designed to meet their 314 00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:59,399 Speaker 1: unique needs. Second quote to assure that the rights of 315 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:04,679 Speaker 1: children would disabilities and their parents are protected. Third quote 316 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:08,120 Speaker 1: to assist states and localities to provide for the education 317 00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:12,800 Speaker 1: of all children with disabilities. And fourth quote to assess 318 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:16,360 Speaker 1: and assure the effectiveness of efforts to educate all children 319 00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:20,680 Speaker 1: with disabilities. This law also outlined a number of ideas 320 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:23,600 Speaker 1: that were are still part of education for children with 321 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:28,200 Speaker 1: disabilities today. This included individual education programs are i e 322 00:19:28,359 --> 00:19:31,120 Speaker 1: p S, which are tailored plans of education that are 323 00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:35,400 Speaker 1: put together to meet each child's specific needs. The concept 324 00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:38,960 Speaker 1: of the least restrictive environment was also part of this law, 325 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:41,480 Speaker 1: so that's the idea that a child should be educated 326 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:45,720 Speaker 1: in the least restrictive setting that is still simultaneously appropriate 327 00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:49,920 Speaker 1: to meet their educational needs. It also sets up education 328 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:53,440 Speaker 1: as a collaborative process. This is the one that involves 329 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:56,680 Speaker 1: the active participation of the parents, the teachers, and other 330 00:19:56,720 --> 00:20:00,040 Speaker 1: professionals all working together to put together a plan and 331 00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:03,800 Speaker 1: educate a specific child. There were a lot of other 332 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:07,159 Speaker 1: provisions in the law as well. Evaluation programs had to 333 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:11,159 Speaker 1: be non discriminatory. They needed to account for economic differences 334 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:14,240 Speaker 1: as well as language and ethnicity. And this was a 335 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:18,280 Speaker 1: big deal because poor and minority children were disproportionately represented 336 00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:23,200 Speaker 1: in programs for children with disabilities, sometimes for discriminatory reasons 337 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:27,760 Speaker 1: and not because an actual disability existed. And to be clear, 338 00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:30,880 Speaker 1: this was really an enormous step. We had gone from 339 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:34,760 Speaker 1: people just being institutionalized as a matter of course to 340 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:37,040 Speaker 1: there being a lot that guaranteed that everyone had the 341 00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:40,160 Speaker 1: right to the same education. But this was not an 342 00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:43,800 Speaker 1: easy process at all, and it wasn't even one that 343 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:46,199 Speaker 1: a lot of people had high hopes for. When the 344 00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:50,640 Speaker 1: law was originally passed, President Ford himself said, quote, Unfortunately, 345 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:54,120 Speaker 1: this bill promises more than the federal government can deliver, 346 00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:57,080 Speaker 1: and it's good intentions could be thwarted by the many 347 00:20:57,200 --> 00:21:01,080 Speaker 1: unwise provisions it contains. Everyone can agree with the objective 348 00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:04,240 Speaker 1: stated in the title of this bill, educating all handicapped 349 00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:07,679 Speaker 1: children in our nation. The key question is whether the 350 00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:13,320 Speaker 1: bill will really accomplish this objective, and as people's understanding 351 00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:16,440 Speaker 1: of what was actually needed and how it would work progressed, 352 00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:19,840 Speaker 1: Public Law ninety four Dash one four two was amended 353 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:23,600 Speaker 1: several times between nineteen seventy five and nineteen ninety seven. 354 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:27,119 Speaker 1: In the nineteen eighties, amendments expanded the scope of the 355 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:30,280 Speaker 1: law to include services that started from birth, as well 356 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:35,920 Speaker 1: as transition services from graduation into adult living. In nineteen 357 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:38,639 Speaker 1: ninety the law was reauthorized, and at that time it 358 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:43,760 Speaker 1: was renamed the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act or IDEA. 359 00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:47,320 Speaker 1: It was re authorized again in nineteen seven, and this 360 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:51,800 Speaker 1: reauthorization involved research into the outcomes of special education, in 361 00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:55,400 Speaker 1: other words, what had actually happened to special education students, 362 00:21:55,920 --> 00:22:00,000 Speaker 1: and the research was not particularly positive. Special education quote 363 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:03,840 Speaker 1: has been impeded by low expectations and an insufficient focus 364 00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:07,359 Speaker 1: on applying replicable research on proven methods of teaching and 365 00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:12,360 Speaker 1: learning for children with disabilities. So while at times this 366 00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:16,520 Speaker 1: progress has been slow or faltering, overall things have improved 367 00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:20,040 Speaker 1: over the last forty years. The majority of children with 368 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:23,440 Speaker 1: disabilities now go to neighborhood public schools and are educated 369 00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:26,840 Speaker 1: in regular classrooms, and both the graduation rates and employment 370 00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:31,520 Speaker 1: rates after graduation have increased, along with enrollments into secondary 371 00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:35,600 Speaker 1: schools by students who have disabilities. The number of college 372 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:41,399 Speaker 1: freshmen with disabilities has tripled since ninety However, while things 373 00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:44,320 Speaker 1: have improved, there are definitely a number of challenges and 374 00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:47,320 Speaker 1: issues that parents and teachers, and as they get older 375 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:50,600 Speaker 1: and become more accountable for their own education, the students 376 00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:54,800 Speaker 1: themselves still face. Yeah, most of the parents I know 377 00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:58,600 Speaker 1: whose children have uh some sort of disability have talked 378 00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:03,920 Speaker 1: really candidly about various struggles, like they will have teachers 379 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:06,800 Speaker 1: who they love, and the teachers are obviously doing the 380 00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:09,080 Speaker 1: best that they can with the resources that they have, 381 00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:13,040 Speaker 1: but they they're like still struggles and getting i e. 382 00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:15,679 Speaker 1: P S put together and approved and having them implemented 383 00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:20,240 Speaker 1: once they actually are uh are put together. So it's 384 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:23,680 Speaker 1: definitely definitely not a perfect process yet, but it's also 385 00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:26,240 Speaker 1: one that has certainly come a long long way since 386 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:29,399 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy five. Do you also have a little bit 387 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:32,320 Speaker 1: of listener mail we could hear I do, and it 388 00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:37,760 Speaker 1: is actually related to this uh this episode because it 389 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:41,320 Speaker 1: is one that followed our Brown Versus Board episodes. It's 390 00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:44,479 Speaker 1: from Emma, and Emma says Hi tracing Holly. First, I 391 00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:46,320 Speaker 1: just want to say I love the podcast and listen 392 00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:49,000 Speaker 1: on my commute to work every day. I really enjoyed 393 00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:51,720 Speaker 1: all of your Brown Versus Board podcasts, in particular since 394 00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:54,720 Speaker 1: I'm currently a school librarian and worked as a classroom 395 00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:57,720 Speaker 1: teacher for ten years prior to my current shop. Thank 396 00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:00,879 Speaker 1: you for addressing the fact that school segregations exists today 397 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:03,960 Speaker 1: and poses an ongoing challenge to the educational equity in 398 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:06,840 Speaker 1: our nation. There's one particular angle that didn't come up 399 00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:09,280 Speaker 1: in your podcast that I thought was worth calling attention to. 400 00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:13,000 Speaker 1: And that's the issue of teacher diversity. For most of 401 00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:15,480 Speaker 1: my career as an educator, I have worked in primarily 402 00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:20,679 Speaker 1: low income schools serving majority minority populations. I taught in 403 00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:24,040 Speaker 1: South Texas for many years, where my students were overwhelmingly 404 00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:27,040 Speaker 1: poor and Latino, and then I taught in Hartford, Connecticut, 405 00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:30,080 Speaker 1: in a school serving a population that was roughly ent 406 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:33,160 Speaker 1: African American. I should note here that I am white, 407 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 1: as are the vast majority of other teachers I have 408 00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:40,120 Speaker 1: worked with. Even in low income schools serving predominantly minority students, 409 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:42,280 Speaker 1: the adults standing in front of the students every day 410 00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:45,720 Speaker 1: are overwhelmingly white. According to a report from the National 411 00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:49,280 Speaker 1: Center for Education Statistics, about eight two percent of public 412 00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:53,320 Speaker 1: school teachers in the year twelve were white. There is 413 00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:56,320 Speaker 1: a particular shortage of black male teachers in the profession. 414 00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:59,639 Speaker 1: I have seen statistics as low as one percent quoted 415 00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:02,360 Speaker 1: for the scentage of public school teachers who are black men. 416 00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:05,560 Speaker 1: When students of color have no positive role models who 417 00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:07,639 Speaker 1: look like them standing in front of the classroom, what 418 00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:11,000 Speaker 1: message does that send about their future? Prospects. I guess 419 00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:13,199 Speaker 1: I could propose a call to action here. I do 420 00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:16,040 Speaker 1: encourage any of your listeners who are passionate about educational 421 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:18,520 Speaker 1: equity to consider teaching at a low income school, as 422 00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:20,800 Speaker 1: I did, but I mostly just wanted to bring the 423 00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:23,439 Speaker 1: statistic to light and share it with you as another 424 00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:26,800 Speaker 1: layer to the problem of segregated and unequal education that 425 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:32,840 Speaker 1: still persists, persists so long after Brown versus Board. Best wishes, Emma. 426 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:36,600 Speaker 1: Thank you very much, Emma. This is actually similar to 427 00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:39,840 Speaker 1: UM an email we got a long time ago when 428 00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:41,919 Speaker 1: we were still working on pop stuff that was about 429 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:48,520 Speaker 1: the disproportionate, UH, disproportionate number of preschool teachers who were female. 430 00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:51,320 Speaker 1: There's a similarly low, like one percent number of male 431 00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:55,960 Speaker 1: preschool teachers UM, and how that's similarly that dichotomy and 432 00:25:56,040 --> 00:26:00,840 Speaker 1: gender UH creates issues in terms of having stive role models, 433 00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:03,520 Speaker 1: and so this is I think similar in terms of race, 434 00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:06,640 Speaker 1: and also in both of those cases, not a thing 435 00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:10,160 Speaker 1: I actually thought about. UM. I had not thought thought 436 00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:12,440 Speaker 1: about that in terms of gender before and until getting 437 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:15,439 Speaker 1: this email, I had not actually thought about UM the 438 00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:18,639 Speaker 1: disparity and race among teachers in the United States. So 439 00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:21,840 Speaker 1: thank you Emma for writing to us. If you would 440 00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:24,159 Speaker 1: like to write, write to us. We're a history podcast 441 00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:26,520 Speaker 1: at how stuff works dot com. We're also on Facebook 442 00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:28,800 Speaker 1: at facebook dot com slash miss in history and on 443 00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:31,960 Speaker 1: Twitter at miss in History. Our tumbler is missing history 444 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:34,119 Speaker 1: dot com, word dot com. Are also on Pinterest at 445 00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:37,360 Speaker 1: pinterest dot com slash missed in History. 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You can also come to our website, 452 00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:58,680 Speaker 1: which is missed in History dot com, and you will 453 00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:00,879 Speaker 1: find show notes for the eisodes probably and I have 454 00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:04,040 Speaker 1: worked on an archive of every single episode that has 455 00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:06,040 Speaker 1: ever come out on the podcast, and lots of other 456 00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:08,240 Speaker 1: cool stuff. You can do all that and a lot 457 00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:11,160 Speaker 1: more at how stuff works dot com or miss industry 458 00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:19,240 Speaker 1: dot com. For more on this and thousands of other topics. 459 00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:33,240 Speaker 1: Is that how stuff works dot com.