1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,760 Speaker 1: Do you know another parent or expecting parent. Are you 2 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:06,720 Speaker 1: wondering what can I give them as a gift. Don't 3 00:00:06,880 --> 00:00:10,840 Speaker 1: give them another onesie, don't give them a plastic toy 4 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:13,560 Speaker 1: or god forbid, a toy gun that's just gonna end 5 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:16,320 Speaker 1: up in the garage. Give them something that matters, and 6 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:20,400 Speaker 1: what matters the most is protecting their child. What do 7 00:00:20,440 --> 00:00:23,239 Speaker 1: you love most in the world your children? What will 8 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:27,479 Speaker 1: you do to protect them anything. I sat down with 9 00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:31,600 Speaker 1: the smartest people I know in the world on matters 10 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 1: of child's safety, finding missing children, fighting back against predators, 11 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:40,400 Speaker 1: and what I learned is so important, powerful and information 12 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:43,800 Speaker 1: so critical. I want you to have it. I want 13 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:46,480 Speaker 1: them to have it. Go to crime stops here dot 14 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:50,919 Speaker 1: com for a five part series with action information that 15 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:54,800 Speaker 1: you can use to change your life and protect your child. 16 00:00:55,080 --> 00:01:00,280 Speaker 1: Payments starting six. Give that as a gift, not another 17 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:03,720 Speaker 1: one zie. Find out how to protect your child when 18 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:05,840 Speaker 1: you're out of the mall or the store, or the grocery, 19 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:09,160 Speaker 1: in the parking lot at home. Find out about protection 20 00:01:09,160 --> 00:01:14,800 Speaker 1: regarding babysitters, in daycare, even online. I'd rather have that 21 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:18,480 Speaker 1: any day of the week than a plastic toy or 22 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:23,880 Speaker 1: God forbid a toy gun. Join Justice Nation, go to 23 00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:34,160 Speaker 1: crime stops here dot com. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. 24 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:39,000 Speaker 1: Basically heard the shots. It was a tall probably six 25 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 1: two six three um dark figure, all black with his 26 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:48,040 Speaker 1: hood on, and he basically was unloading. And all I 27 00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:50,880 Speaker 1: did was grabbed as many people as I could and 28 00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:54,400 Speaker 1: pull them underneath the table and until I heard the shots, 29 00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:57,520 Speaker 1: until I heard a break in the shots, and then 30 00:01:57,560 --> 00:02:00,240 Speaker 1: we got people out of there as much as we could. 31 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:02,520 Speaker 1: It sounds like you smashed the window. Well, yeah, we 32 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:08,400 Speaker 1: did describe that. Barstools go through windows. It works. I 33 00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:10,239 Speaker 1: mean I interviewed somebody who went through that winter. You 34 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:12,320 Speaker 1: helped get them out. So you've pulled a lot of 35 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:15,200 Speaker 1: people out exactly, and that's all we could do. The 36 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:16,840 Speaker 1: only thing that I could have wished for is to 37 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:22,240 Speaker 1: have something better than a barstool. If you're like most people, 38 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:26,799 Speaker 1: you woke up this morning to learn twelve dead in 39 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:31,640 Speaker 1: a student massacre. At least twelve. Dad is a trench 40 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:36,680 Speaker 1: coat wearing masked gunman storms the student night at a 41 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 1: local country bar. Why throwing smoke grenades onto the dance floor, 42 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:50,000 Speaker 1: killing a cop. It's over whelming what we are learning 43 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:53,560 Speaker 1: right now. I Nancy Grace, this is crime Stories. Thank 44 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:56,840 Speaker 1: you for being with us. Repeat at least twelve. Dad 45 00:02:56,960 --> 00:03:02,520 Speaker 1: is a trench coat wearing masked gun men, rages into 46 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:07,120 Speaker 1: student night at a local country bar, hurling smoke grenades 47 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:11,000 Speaker 1: onto the dance floor, even killing a cop in California. 48 00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:17,360 Speaker 1: I'm overwhelmed as so many people are straight out to 49 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:21,000 Speaker 1: Alan Doup joining us in l a Alan. What happened? 50 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:25,960 Speaker 1: It was in the evening. It was college night at 51 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:29,120 Speaker 1: the Borderline Bar and Grill in Thousand Oaks, and kids 52 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:33,440 Speaker 1: were enjoying country night and they were dancing, they were drinking, 53 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:36,920 Speaker 1: they were having a good time, and gunfire rang out. 54 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:41,360 Speaker 1: Witnesses tell us this guy just walks in and starts shooting. 55 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 1: You know, we are talking about kind of a homey 56 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:48,880 Speaker 1: little bar, a country bar that was college night that night. 57 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:53,400 Speaker 1: College country Night is a regular fixture and teens from 58 00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:57,640 Speaker 1: nearby colleges all go there and they have a good time, 59 00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:01,040 Speaker 1: many of them stamping black egg is on their hands 60 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:04,800 Speaker 1: to mark that they will not be drinking. All of 61 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:09,600 Speaker 1: these students are crammed in students from Pepperdine Um, California 62 00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:16,679 Speaker 1: Lutheran to heavily, heavily Christian schools? Was his A hate crime? 63 00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:22,279 Speaker 1: Was the shooter trying to stamp out Christian students. We 64 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:25,360 Speaker 1: don't know all the answers yet, but listen, I thought 65 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:30,760 Speaker 1: it was a joke when the shots started firing, and 66 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:34,240 Speaker 1: I just, I don't. I hope I know people there. 67 00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:37,279 Speaker 1: I know, I just I hope everybody's okay. I don't 68 00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:39,920 Speaker 1: know how I didn't get shot. You come to this 69 00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:43,719 Speaker 1: bar a lout, Yeah, here and there. It's a local spot. 70 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:46,680 Speaker 1: There's one of maybe three yeah, I mean quite a bit. 71 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:50,280 Speaker 1: And you knew more people that were inside already. Yeah, 72 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:53,160 Speaker 1: I heard from anybody, you know, I know, I mean 73 00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:56,560 Speaker 1: my my, my friend that works behind the bar wasn't 74 00:04:56,640 --> 00:05:00,560 Speaker 1: working tonight. But from what I've been told, there's still 75 00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:03,839 Speaker 1: people in there, and it's an active shooter. The gunman 76 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:09,080 Speaker 1: he was, He had a beard, He looked Middle Easterners 77 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:11,839 Speaker 1: or so. He was wearing a hat, black jacket. I 78 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:16,440 Speaker 1: think he had glasses on, like prescription glasses. He had 79 00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:21,760 Speaker 1: a big handgun, and I mean, shots were just firing. 80 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 1: Are you okay? I was. I was the closest. The 81 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:33,360 Speaker 1: security guard was closest to the front door. Cash. The 82 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:35,600 Speaker 1: two people had a cash treasurer close to the front door. 83 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 1: I was the next person closest to the front door. 84 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 1: You're hearing the hero survivor, Matt, who actually threw a 85 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:44,239 Speaker 1: bar stool through a window and tried to help people 86 00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:49,279 Speaker 1: get out of the deadly shooting scenario. These are tanes. 87 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:55,799 Speaker 1: You work your whole life to raise your child. They're 88 00:05:55,839 --> 00:05:58,920 Speaker 1: all the years where you have to change their diapers 89 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:02,400 Speaker 1: and give them back and rush them back and forth 90 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:05,800 Speaker 1: to the doctor and take their temperature in the middle 91 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:08,720 Speaker 1: of nine and clean up their vomit. Then they they 92 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:10,960 Speaker 1: move on there in school, and then you have to 93 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:13,640 Speaker 1: wash their clothes, make sure they have their homework done, 94 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:17,600 Speaker 1: make sure they're eating their veggies, and have all their vaccinations. 95 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:20,080 Speaker 1: Then they move on to middle school, the whole another 96 00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:24,600 Speaker 1: set of issues to help them navigate. Then high school. 97 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:27,440 Speaker 1: Are they going to get into college? Which college? What 98 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:32,440 Speaker 1: can I do to help them do better? Make life easier, 99 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:36,839 Speaker 1: make life better for them. You finally get them into college, 100 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:47,520 Speaker 1: and then this there are parents suffering. Parents suffering right now, 101 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:52,159 Speaker 1: parents that wake up in the morning and they discover 102 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:58,960 Speaker 1: that this has happened to their child. Listen, are the 103 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 1: worst with my son. So they went in there. They 104 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:05,480 Speaker 1: all got out, but he didn't come out, so they 105 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:08,280 Speaker 1: say he was when they last he went to the 106 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:12,240 Speaker 1: bar to get the drinks for everybody, and that's when 107 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:17,640 Speaker 1: they heard the shocks ringing out and all panic. The hospital. 108 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:21,080 Speaker 1: We did call the hospital, they don't they're going through 109 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:23,440 Speaker 1: their crazy triage right now, so they don't have any 110 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:28,160 Speaker 1: names or anybody that they They don't want to talk yet, 111 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:30,760 Speaker 1: so I haven't been over that. That's my next status 112 00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:32,840 Speaker 1: to go there yet. What did they tell you here? 113 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:36,600 Speaker 1: They just taking your information and tell you to wait. 114 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:41,160 Speaker 1: How was that your dad? Like I said, I'm pretty emotional. 115 00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:49,320 Speaker 1: Tell me that awesome. Um, we're very Christian raised family 116 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:53,040 Speaker 1: and everything. That's he's a very good kid, you know, 117 00:07:53,080 --> 00:07:56,360 Speaker 1: he's very good new school. He's very sports oriented. Uh 118 00:07:56,920 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 1: was going into the army. So we're gonna have to 119 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:02,960 Speaker 1: wait and see at the ending of the situation, you're 120 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:06,280 Speaker 1: answer that. Please answer that, Okay. I'm like, if you 121 00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:12,360 Speaker 1: get word I want. You talked about these mast shootings 122 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 1: that you've been seeing, and we'd ever talked to all 123 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:19,640 Speaker 1: about things. Yeah, that's why I'm very Uh, I'm curious 124 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 1: right now and email raising him the way we've raised them, yas, 125 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:25,640 Speaker 1: and if he picked up the cell phone, anybody's cell phone, 126 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:31,240 Speaker 1: M he's called home. So I don't understand where we're 127 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 1: at this point that you just see singing shot. I'm 128 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:40,160 Speaker 1: actually I'm very very you're hearing Jason Kaufman, his son, Cody, 129 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:43,440 Speaker 1: was inside the Borderline Bar, all the friends got out. 130 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:47,640 Speaker 1: He can't find Cody, And all I can say right 131 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:51,560 Speaker 1: now is the Lord please be with Jason Kaufman and Cody. 132 00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:55,840 Speaker 1: But we know that at least twelve are dead. We 133 00:08:55,920 --> 00:09:00,160 Speaker 1: know there are twelve sets of parents, twelve families devastated 134 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:05,040 Speaker 1: right now, at least twelve if you like. So meny 135 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:10,319 Speaker 1: Americans woke up and discover the deadly student massacre, it's 136 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:16,719 Speaker 1: just overwhelming. De Troy's like joining me, renowned l a 137 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:21,840 Speaker 1: defense attorney who actually represents the owner of Borderline Bar. Troy, 138 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:25,040 Speaker 1: what is your understanding? I woke up to this horrific 139 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:29,560 Speaker 1: tragedy just like everybody else, and uh immediately and trying 140 00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:31,840 Speaker 1: to find out as much information as I can. I've 141 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:36,240 Speaker 1: I've texted my client, who is the owner of, as 142 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:39,000 Speaker 1: you said, of the bar, haven't heard back from him yet. 143 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:41,439 Speaker 1: So at this point I just don't know, and I'm 144 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:44,559 Speaker 1: trying to gather the facts of the location of that 145 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:50,199 Speaker 1: bar is very close to my office in Westlake Village, California. 146 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:55,000 Speaker 1: Many students from my alma mater, Pepperdine Law School and 147 00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:59,200 Speaker 1: Pepperdine University were there, and this is just a horrific 148 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:04,400 Speaker 1: tragedy that's strikes home. I represent as you know, many 149 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:08,559 Speaker 1: many victims of the Root nine Harvest Festival, the horrific 150 00:10:08,559 --> 00:10:11,199 Speaker 1: shooting that took place in Las Vegas about a year 151 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:15,640 Speaker 1: ago October of last year, and many of those same 152 00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:20,079 Speaker 1: people that were affected by that tragedy in Las Vegas 153 00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:23,320 Speaker 1: were there last night. Last night was a country night, 154 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 1: and at college country night, many students were there just 155 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:29,719 Speaker 1: because they wanted to engage in line dancing. Describe this 156 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:35,200 Speaker 1: suspect suspects from like a quick glance of what I saw. 157 00:10:35,240 --> 00:10:38,679 Speaker 1: I liked that you had a black hat, um black glasses, 158 00:10:39,679 --> 00:10:41,520 Speaker 1: had a beard. I don't know if he was wearing 159 00:10:41,559 --> 00:10:43,199 Speaker 1: like a black it was a black shirt, but I 160 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:44,480 Speaker 1: don't know if it was like a jacket or not. 161 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:47,240 Speaker 1: But yeah, he didn't even like say anything too So 162 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:49,800 Speaker 1: it all just happened so quick. They were very very 163 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:52,400 Speaker 1: loud gunshots. They were very clear what they were. You know, 164 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:55,319 Speaker 1: it was definitely not the music. You know, there are 165 00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 1: people in the middle dancing and just hanging out and 166 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:00,199 Speaker 1: having a good time. There was some smoke. I mean, 167 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:01,640 Speaker 1: I got out of there as fast as I could, 168 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:04,120 Speaker 1: so I can't say anything as to what. You know, 169 00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:08,320 Speaker 1: other people that were in there, you know, had experience 170 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:09,960 Speaker 1: with so as soon as you heard the gun shots, 171 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:11,560 Speaker 1: you just took off out the door. Oh no, we 172 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:14,280 Speaker 1: got down because I heard people screaming, everyone get down, 173 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:17,160 Speaker 1: and you know, I've never experienced this before, so I'm 174 00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:21,480 Speaker 1: gonna listen to whatever they tell me to do. Very scary, 175 00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:26,480 Speaker 1: but once you know, the shots kept going and going 176 00:11:26,559 --> 00:11:29,679 Speaker 1: and going. Um, we just heard people stay run and 177 00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:32,080 Speaker 1: we looked it as fast as we cut. Many of 178 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:36,280 Speaker 1: you America, across America, people wake up this morning to 179 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:42,080 Speaker 1: learn about a student massacre at Lee's. Twelve victims gun 180 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:47,319 Speaker 1: down college students in their teens, including a sheriff's deputy, 181 00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:53,160 Speaker 1: in a horrific, horrific local bar shooting. You were just hearing, 182 00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:56,880 Speaker 1: an unidentified woman describing hearing gunfire at first thinking it 183 00:11:56,960 --> 00:11:59,720 Speaker 1: was part of the music. Getting down on the floor 184 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:04,080 Speaker 1: and crawling as fast as she could to try to 185 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:08,280 Speaker 1: get out. I'm Nancy Grace. This is crime Stories. Thank 186 00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:10,760 Speaker 1: you for being with us. And I know it's not 187 00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:15,440 Speaker 1: politically correct, and I know I'll take the heat, but 188 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:19,120 Speaker 1: if you can join us in a prayer for these 189 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:25,400 Speaker 1: families that are suffering right now, learning that their child 190 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:29,880 Speaker 1: they have loved so much has died on an innocent 191 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:36,439 Speaker 1: night out at this hour, police and forensics cruise combing 192 00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:41,080 Speaker 1: the interior of the Borderline bar with me right now. Uh, 193 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:45,200 Speaker 1: well known for forensics expert, a superstar in her field, 194 00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:49,120 Speaker 1: Karen Smith joining me out of the Florida jurisdiction. Karen, 195 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:54,560 Speaker 1: You've been on so many crime scenes, so many homicide scenes. 196 00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:59,000 Speaker 1: What are they doing inside the bar? Now? The first 197 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:02,480 Speaker 1: thing they're going to do is, UH, rescue anyone that 198 00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:05,960 Speaker 1: can be rescued at that point, They're going to go 199 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:10,280 Speaker 1: in very methodically. Um, they have time at this point. Um, 200 00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:13,240 Speaker 1: you know that they're not going to take anyone that 201 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:17,240 Speaker 1: suffered a fatal injury out of the bar. Um. You know, 202 00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:19,000 Speaker 1: they're dealing with the death of one of their own. 203 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 1: They're going to have to put their emotions aside, which 204 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:24,080 Speaker 1: is probably the hardest part um. At this point, they're 205 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:27,439 Speaker 1: going to start documenting everything. Uh. You know, everybody has 206 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:30,240 Speaker 1: questions about what the weapon was, how many weapons this 207 00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:33,600 Speaker 1: man had, what type of weapons they were, that's going 208 00:13:33,679 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 1: to come out once the investigation begins. They'll start feeding 209 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:41,680 Speaker 1: the information to the public Information officer. UH, photography and 210 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:45,320 Speaker 1: videotaping will take place, and then they will start identifying, uh, 211 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:48,200 Speaker 1: those that remain inside the bar. Karen Smith joining me, 212 00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:54,920 Speaker 1: forensics expert. You know, you never see this coming. There's 213 00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:59,160 Speaker 1: no way that you would know this was going to happen. 214 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:05,080 Speaker 1: We are learning multiple people, including young students and law enforcement, 215 00:14:05,679 --> 00:14:09,200 Speaker 1: murdered at a country music bar in southern California after 216 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:15,240 Speaker 1: a masked gunman wearing all black opens fire on a 217 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:19,800 Speaker 1: crowd of teens. Opening fire on a crowd of innocent 218 00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:25,840 Speaker 1: teens from heavily Christian colleges, many of them with a 219 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:29,680 Speaker 1: black X on their hands to indicate they were not 220 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:34,280 Speaker 1: drinking that night. The government opening fire inside this crowded 221 00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:39,320 Speaker 1: country music bar late late in the evening, a sheriff's 222 00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:44,160 Speaker 1: deputy down After the deputy rushed inside to confront the shooter. 223 00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:50,560 Speaker 1: The gunfire erupted as people were actually Lyne dancing their 224 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:55,520 Speaker 1: college country night. Uh that borderline bar and grill and 225 00:14:55,720 --> 00:15:00,080 Speaker 1: Francy Haiggs, former federal prosecutor, that made it even more 226 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:03,720 Speaker 1: difficult for people to understand what was happening. It reminds 227 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:07,440 Speaker 1: me a great deal of the Orlando shooting. The music's playing, 228 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:11,880 Speaker 1: people are out their line dancing. Um, they can't hear 229 00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:15,440 Speaker 1: what's going on. It's crowded, they can't really see what's happening. 230 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:19,240 Speaker 1: It's a highly popular night spot there in Thousand Oaks, California, 231 00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:24,520 Speaker 1: especially among college students. And the shooter knew that when 232 00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:27,600 Speaker 1: he went in and opened fire, he knew he was 233 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:33,920 Speaker 1: shooting heavily Christian students from the two local colleges, Francy, 234 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:37,240 Speaker 1: but no one can understand what was happening around them. Francy. No, 235 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:40,840 Speaker 1: you're right, Nancy. It's really horrific when you think about it. 236 00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:45,760 Speaker 1: This gunman obviously came prepared. He had smoke grenades, and 237 00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:49,200 Speaker 1: his targeting college students who are innocently having a good 238 00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:53,120 Speaker 1: time at a bar. And the difficult thing now is 239 00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:55,760 Speaker 1: going to be figuring out exactly what happened. And for 240 00:15:55,880 --> 00:16:00,240 Speaker 1: law enforcement, they are on the ground desperately try trying 241 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:04,280 Speaker 1: to ensure that there was not some kind of conspiracy. 242 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:06,600 Speaker 1: Are there other people out there? Is this part of 243 00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:09,040 Speaker 1: a plot? Another thing we got to worry about is 244 00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:14,120 Speaker 1: very often with crime scenes like this, there's a multiple attack. 245 00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:18,520 Speaker 1: Uh m o uh. You know, think back on the 246 00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:24,160 Speaker 1: abortion clinic bombings or various shootings where several things happened 247 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:27,520 Speaker 1: within a space of time, you know, a certain space 248 00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:30,560 Speaker 1: of time like eight o'clock today, eight o'clock tomorrow, eight 249 00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:34,040 Speaker 1: o'clock the next day, or multiple shootings, you know, a 250 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:37,880 Speaker 1: cluster event. That's what they're also looking for. You know. 251 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:40,680 Speaker 1: One thing among the many things we're learning this morning 252 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:44,920 Speaker 1: about the shooter, Karen start, he actually drove his mother's 253 00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:48,640 Speaker 1: car to the club, and that right there tells me 254 00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:52,960 Speaker 1: a lot about him. Well, Nancy, I think it's just 255 00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:56,280 Speaker 1: it's so hard. I wish we knew more about him. 256 00:16:56,400 --> 00:16:59,120 Speaker 1: That's part of what happens in these shootings is that 257 00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:02,880 Speaker 1: it's so difficult to get into the mind of what 258 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:08,400 Speaker 1: you cause somebody to go out there so so violently 259 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:14,520 Speaker 1: and just have such a strong disregard for life. And 260 00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:18,760 Speaker 1: when I was that as you were talking about the children, 261 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:22,560 Speaker 1: and I was thinking, look, everyone's gonna die sooner or later. 262 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:27,440 Speaker 1: But to realize that young lives have been taken without 263 00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:31,440 Speaker 1: any of what happened to them, as is happening, thinking 264 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:36,640 Speaker 1: that they're hearing firecrackers going off, it's just the worst 265 00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:39,840 Speaker 1: kind of news. Karen Start, New York Psychologists. I'm a 266 00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:42,320 Speaker 1: little stunned with you right now. Of course, everybody's going 267 00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:45,280 Speaker 1: to die, and I know that, But why do you 268 00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:48,520 Speaker 1: have to die when you're a teens to that at 269 00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:51,600 Speaker 1: pepper Dawn as opposed to when you fall asleep at 270 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:54,640 Speaker 1: age ninety three and past, go to sleep and wake 271 00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:59,600 Speaker 1: up in heaven. Hold on, I'm being joined right now, 272 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:04,879 Speaker 1: I Cheryl McCullum, Director of the Cold Case Research Institute. Cheryl, 273 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:08,399 Speaker 1: you've done, along with me and on your own, so 274 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:12,800 Speaker 1: many profiles off shooters. It tells me a lot about 275 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:16,600 Speaker 1: this guy. He had to drive his mommy's car to 276 00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:21,399 Speaker 1: the club for a me to engage in a mass shooting. 277 00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:29,040 Speaker 1: He had to drive his mom's car. Cheryl McCullum, correct, Yeah, 278 00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:34,399 Speaker 1: this this tells you. You know, he's probably, by society standards, 279 00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:38,440 Speaker 1: is not a very successful person. And he probably understood 280 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:42,359 Speaker 1: that as well, Nancy. He picked a soft target and 281 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:46,480 Speaker 1: I'm gonna say this over and over and over. These 282 00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:52,000 Speaker 1: mass shooters are pumped. They are weak. So what they 283 00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:56,119 Speaker 1: do is they pick churches, they picked clubs, They picked 284 00:18:56,280 --> 00:18:59,560 Speaker 1: crowds where they're at a you know, higher level, so 285 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:04,320 Speaker 1: that no one can stop them, nobody can hurt them. 286 00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:07,040 Speaker 1: So they take the club with these college kids. There's 287 00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:10,920 Speaker 1: no guns in the rows. The smoke bombs, so nobody 288 00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:16,000 Speaker 1: can see him and overpower him. He has no victim 289 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:20,560 Speaker 1: in mind. It is random. It is whoever gets in 290 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:22,880 Speaker 1: the way of that bullet. We are talking right now 291 00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:28,760 Speaker 1: about the Thousand Oaks shooting. Multiple fatalities at the Borderline Bar, 292 00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:34,520 Speaker 1: including a sheriff's deputy. It's overwhelming. Listen, I come here 293 00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:36,600 Speaker 1: a line, my dance line, and I was just dancing, 294 00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:39,080 Speaker 1: you know, I having a good night number Wednesday and 295 00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:42,359 Speaker 1: my bows at root, so I know a gun shots 296 00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:46,080 Speaker 1: sound like and critical offense. They knew I slayd down 297 00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:48,000 Speaker 1: on mangles. They could try to pick me people as 298 00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:51,280 Speaker 1: they could. And then shooting kept going. They were during 299 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:54,480 Speaker 1: smoke bombs, and then it kind of hit me like okay, 300 00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:56,679 Speaker 1: it's I'm going to work. And then I just broke windows, 301 00:19:56,680 --> 00:19:59,120 Speaker 1: broke I just hunked up the window and it was wrong. 302 00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:01,320 Speaker 1: The last people out didn't see anybody who did see 303 00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:05,440 Speaker 1: the gut stuff nice random transport as I can as 304 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:09,600 Speaker 1: fast as I could up. I'm certifying e MT and 305 00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:11,840 Speaker 1: something like that, so I came right back sort of work. 306 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:19,359 Speaker 1: Window treatments is one of those terms for something necessary 307 00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:23,200 Speaker 1: but boring. Your blinds. You don't even think about them 308 00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:26,840 Speaker 1: unless you move or they break. Well. When they're right, 309 00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:29,720 Speaker 1: everything in your home looks better. 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They are assuming 336 00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:22,960 Speaker 1: the worst for my son. So they went in there. 337 00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:25,560 Speaker 1: They all got out, but he didn't come out, So 338 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:27,960 Speaker 1: did they say what he was when they last he 339 00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:31,760 Speaker 1: went to the bar to get the drinks for everybody, 340 00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:34,720 Speaker 1: and that's when they heard the shocks ringing out and 341 00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:39,640 Speaker 1: oh panic, going to the hospital. We did call the hospital. 342 00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:42,760 Speaker 1: They don't. They're going through their crazy triash right now. 343 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:46,200 Speaker 1: So they don't have any names or anybody that they 344 00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:49,000 Speaker 1: they don't want to talk yet, so I haven't been 345 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:51,280 Speaker 1: over there. That's my next step is to go there yet. 346 00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:54,679 Speaker 1: What did they tell you here? They just take your 347 00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:57,840 Speaker 1: information and tell you to wait? How is that is 348 00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:02,320 Speaker 1: it out? Like I said, I'm pret emotional. Tell me 349 00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:07,560 Speaker 1: about Cody was POD's personality? Awesome? Um, we're very Christian 350 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:11,480 Speaker 1: raised family and everything. It's he he's a very good kid. 351 00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:14,960 Speaker 1: You know, he's very good in school. He's very sports oriented. Uh, 352 00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:18,040 Speaker 1: was going into the army. So we're gonna have to 353 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:21,720 Speaker 1: wait and see and then the situation you're answer that, 354 00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:24,880 Speaker 1: please answer, That's okay. I'm like, if you get word 355 00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:30,960 Speaker 1: to you talked about these most shootings that you've been seeing. 356 00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:36,280 Speaker 1: We've ever talked about things. Yeah, that's why I'm very Uh, 357 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:39,320 Speaker 1: I'm curious right now. And you know, raising him way 358 00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:41,119 Speaker 1: we raised the White House and he picked up a 359 00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:46,119 Speaker 1: cellphone anybody's cell phone, and he's called home. So I 360 00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:50,560 Speaker 1: don't understand where where we're at this point. That shock, 361 00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:55,000 Speaker 1: I'm actually I'm very very in shock. You're hearing from 362 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:58,120 Speaker 1: Jason Kaufman, whose son Cody was inside the Borderline Bar. 363 00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:02,239 Speaker 1: Right now, are ars are with the families. I'm not 364 00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:05,480 Speaker 1: only the students, the victims in this case, but those 365 00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:10,159 Speaker 1: who are wondering about their loved one who don't have 366 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:14,360 Speaker 1: an answer yet. If you need information on your loved one, 367 00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:17,440 Speaker 1: dial eight zero five four six five six six five 368 00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:22,520 Speaker 1: zero repeat eight zero five four six five six six 369 00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:26,520 Speaker 1: five zero. We are learning a lot about the shooter. 370 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:29,439 Speaker 1: We are learning that he has been described by an 371 00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:33,320 Speaker 1: anonymous sources of twenty nine year old male armed with 372 00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:37,320 Speaker 1: a glock handgun and a smoke device. That he drove 373 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:41,920 Speaker 1: his mother's card to Borderline Bar, which was crowded with 374 00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:47,280 Speaker 1: Christians students that night, didn't say a word before opening fire. 375 00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:49,760 Speaker 1: That tells me a lot. And I'm gonna circle back 376 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:54,200 Speaker 1: to Cheryl Francy and Karen Stark on that, because that 377 00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:56,439 Speaker 1: tells me he had a motive before he went in. 378 00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:58,080 Speaker 1: He didn't go in and just getting a bar fight 379 00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:03,360 Speaker 1: and unload. Right now, we know of at least twelve 380 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:11,080 Speaker 1: victims dead inside the Borderline Bar. There was quote blood everywhere, 381 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:17,679 Speaker 1: a horrific scene. Witnesses reporting the gunfire blasted through the club. 382 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:22,000 Speaker 1: Those who recognize it as being gunfire, ran for cover, 383 00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:26,320 Speaker 1: in some cases even taking chairs to break open windows 384 00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:29,639 Speaker 1: to try and get out. Many hid in bathrooms. They 385 00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:34,360 Speaker 1: found an attic, and they frantically began calling their parents, 386 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:38,800 Speaker 1: calling their loved ones, telling them they were caught inside. 387 00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:44,199 Speaker 1: We've gotten identify basically description of the gunman. Dressed in 388 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:49,000 Speaker 1: all black, including a black hat, a black shirt, black glasses, 389 00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:54,600 Speaker 1: and he seemingly focused his firepipe firepower on the front 390 00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:57,639 Speaker 1: of the bar as soon as he entered, just pulling 391 00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:02,200 Speaker 1: out a gun and shooting, shooting. According to a witness, 392 00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:06,600 Speaker 1: um many thought it was an unmistakable sound of gunfire. 393 00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:10,520 Speaker 1: Others thought it was fireworks or maybe part of the music. 394 00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:16,280 Speaker 1: People hiding under pool tables. To Cheryl McCollum, h c 395 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:19,760 Speaker 1: s I and director of the Cold Case Research Institute, 396 00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:22,560 Speaker 1: is your job to put crime scene cases back together again. 397 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:26,880 Speaker 1: The fact that he walked in and started shooting, dressed 398 00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:31,800 Speaker 1: in all black tells me he premeditated this. He planned it. 399 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:36,200 Speaker 1: He had a vendetta motive. It wasn't against any one 400 00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:40,399 Speaker 1: person in particular. What does it tell you, Cheryl, am 401 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:43,000 Speaker 1: I wrong, No, You're dead on and he was ready 402 00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:46,960 Speaker 1: for battle. He went there with a clear objective to 403 00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:49,880 Speaker 1: kill as many people as he could without being stopped. 404 00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:53,960 Speaker 1: That's what he did. And he will be very uh, 405 00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:58,399 Speaker 1: he'll leave a footprint as it were only his social media. 406 00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:02,880 Speaker 1: He's been very vocal. He has not hidden us at all. Um. 407 00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:04,800 Speaker 1: So what they're gonna do today is they're gonna go 408 00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:06,920 Speaker 1: through his computer, that's gonna go through his phone. They're 409 00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:09,919 Speaker 1: gonna talk to friends, family, co workers, if he had 410 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:12,200 Speaker 1: jobs here and there, and they're gonna start piecing his 411 00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:16,600 Speaker 1: bat together. But the victims were random. This act was not. 412 00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:19,840 Speaker 1: And Nancy, I'm going to keep my mantra every time 413 00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:23,040 Speaker 1: we talk about one of these things mental health, mental health, 414 00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:26,760 Speaker 1: mental health. If we do not get a handle on that, 415 00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:30,600 Speaker 1: these types of events are not gonna stop. But part 416 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:33,280 Speaker 1: of that to Karen start Nework psychologists joining us, she's right, 417 00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:39,600 Speaker 1: Sheryl McCollum is right. But these people are not legally insane. 418 00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:44,120 Speaker 1: So there's i e. Translation, they don't know wrong from right. 419 00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:47,240 Speaker 1: I may say, oh, you're crazy or he's crazy, but 420 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:51,560 Speaker 1: in the legal sense, he is not mentally insane. In 421 00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:54,360 Speaker 1: other words, doesn't know right from wrong. If he did, 422 00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:57,840 Speaker 1: he wouldn't be dressed in all black so as not 423 00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:01,800 Speaker 1: to be detective. He wouldn't have snuck in the way 424 00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:04,439 Speaker 1: he did. He wouldn't have concealed his weapon. He knew 425 00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:08,080 Speaker 1: what he was doing had consequences. He knew what he 426 00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:11,280 Speaker 1: was doing was wrong. But to Cheryl mccollumb's point, what 427 00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:15,000 Speaker 1: about um the park Line shooting? What about so many 428 00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:19,240 Speaker 1: other shootings where people have these borderline or full on 429 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:25,040 Speaker 1: personality disorders, like a persecution complex or paranoia, or they 430 00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:27,600 Speaker 1: feel like they're hated, or they feel like they're on 431 00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:30,439 Speaker 1: the outside looking in. You know, it goes on and 432 00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:33,560 Speaker 1: on and on. They're not insane, and I don't know 433 00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:36,840 Speaker 1: if they can be identified, Cheryl McCollum. Wasn't he just 434 00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:39,320 Speaker 1: looking at random crowd and go, oh yeah, number one, 435 00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:42,520 Speaker 1: number eight, number fifty, number seventy two. You have borderline 436 00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:45,480 Speaker 1: personality disorders, So I'm gonna watch you to make sure 437 00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:47,680 Speaker 1: you don't do a mass shooting. I think it's impossible. 438 00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:50,840 Speaker 1: It's like picking one corn flake out of a box 439 00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:53,760 Speaker 1: and saying this is the weird one. It is impossible. 440 00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:56,720 Speaker 1: And they have trying so hard to identify people like 441 00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:59,600 Speaker 1: this through social media, and look what happens, Nancy, how 442 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:02,880 Speaker 1: many times him now Pittsburgh. It just keeps happening over 443 00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:06,480 Speaker 1: and over again, and then you find in hindsight that 444 00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:08,760 Speaker 1: all of this was there. You could have seen it, 445 00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:11,600 Speaker 1: but no one knows where to look. There are too 446 00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:13,960 Speaker 1: many things that are happening with those who media. With 447 00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:17,480 Speaker 1: the Internet, you can't identify a person like this because 448 00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:20,680 Speaker 1: they are not that public. They are not so out there, 449 00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:25,760 Speaker 1: and they are not demonstratable people who have mental illness, 450 00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:28,960 Speaker 1: and that's part of the problem. They often seem like loners. 451 00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:32,560 Speaker 1: They don't have friends. There are no ways to really 452 00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:35,640 Speaker 1: pick these people out of the crowd. That's the problem 453 00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:39,080 Speaker 1: is that how do we find them they would be 454 00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:41,600 Speaker 1: able to identify them. Well, I know this, I know 455 00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:45,800 Speaker 1: that very often people get a vibe. Okay, we were 456 00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:50,959 Speaker 1: just talking about the misogynist to shoot her, who basically 457 00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:55,680 Speaker 1: adulated Elliott Roger, the Virgin Killer. He coincidentally was in 458 00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:59,240 Speaker 1: the thousand area as well. He would speak you hate 459 00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:02,120 Speaker 1: for women and talk about trying to get this date. 460 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:04,400 Speaker 1: She didn't show up. G I wonder why, I mean, 461 00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:07,360 Speaker 1: they put off that vibe that we're talking about. But 462 00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:10,040 Speaker 1: Francy Haggs, you know you're the former federal prosecutor. The 463 00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:13,640 Speaker 1: reality is, are we and I'm not faulting in the government. 464 00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:16,240 Speaker 1: It's like literally a needle in a haystack. If any 465 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:17,920 Speaker 1: of you ever raised in a rural area of finding 466 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:22,280 Speaker 1: a needle in a haystack, yeah, that's not gonna happen. Okay. So, Francy, 467 00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:26,640 Speaker 1: we can't even catch the terrorists by monitoring the internet, okay, 468 00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:31,480 Speaker 1: And we're trying. It's just there's too many of them. 469 00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:34,680 Speaker 1: And how are we going to catch people with social 470 00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:38,800 Speaker 1: disorders to try to stop a potential shooting. I don't 471 00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:41,000 Speaker 1: know this means anything to these victims this morning. It's 472 00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:43,640 Speaker 1: just like blah blah, blah blah blah. But I'm hearing 473 00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:48,480 Speaker 1: Cheryl is there away. You're absolutely right, Nancy, hate does 474 00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:53,360 Speaker 1: not equate to criminal activity. We cannot police thought. Now. 475 00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:56,800 Speaker 1: There are certainly hate crimes, but that only ever comes 476 00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:59,200 Speaker 1: after the crime has happened, as we see in the 477 00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:03,000 Speaker 1: case of synagogue shooting in Pittsburgh, we will hear eventually 478 00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:06,000 Speaker 1: what his motive was. Cheryl is absolutely right. There will 479 00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:08,600 Speaker 1: be a social media footprint. He will have left a note, 480 00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:10,920 Speaker 1: there will be writings, there will be text message, there 481 00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:13,480 Speaker 1: will be something that will tell us after the fact 482 00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:16,160 Speaker 1: what he was thinking and why he did what he did. 483 00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:19,520 Speaker 1: But it is almost impossible for federal authorities who can't 484 00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:23,800 Speaker 1: really shut down isis on Twitter to find those who 485 00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:25,840 Speaker 1: are going to go on a shooting rampage. He leaves 486 00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:28,600 Speaker 1: behind a wife and a son. He uh. He was 487 00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:31,480 Speaker 1: a fifty four year old resident Moore Park and he 488 00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:34,840 Speaker 1: uh he epitomized what a cop does. He's a cops cop. 489 00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:37,880 Speaker 1: He when he heard the gunfire, he ran in. He 490 00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:40,560 Speaker 1: ran in and no doubt saved others from being victimized. 491 00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:42,680 Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, earlier, a young man that 492 00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:45,000 Speaker 1: was inside the nightclip came up to me and said, 493 00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:48,080 Speaker 1: you know what, he saved additional people from being victims. 494 00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:51,280 Speaker 1: And that's uh, that's what cops do. That's what that's 495 00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:56,840 Speaker 1: what he did. Ron was a hard working, dedicated sheriff 496 00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:03,000 Speaker 1: Sheriff's sergeant. He was so really committed. He gave his 497 00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:07,280 Speaker 1: all and tonight, as I told his wife, he died 498 00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:12,480 Speaker 1: a hero because he went he went in to save lives, 499 00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:22,200 Speaker 1: to save other people. Sergeant Hillis died at the sergeant 500 00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:28,320 Speaker 1: passed away at the hospital about an hour ago. I 501 00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:30,560 Speaker 1: only mentioned might be terrorists because that's where we all 502 00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:33,360 Speaker 1: go these days, and we have multiple shootings like this, 503 00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:35,800 Speaker 1: there's no reason for it, and we have this horrific death. 504 00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:39,240 Speaker 1: I have nothing to lead me to believe or the 505 00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:42,040 Speaker 1: FBI that there is any terrorism link here, but we 506 00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:44,520 Speaker 1: certainly will look at that option. You are hearing Ventura 507 00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:49,160 Speaker 1: County Sheriff Jeff Dean announcing the death of his comrades, 508 00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:53,959 Speaker 1: Sergeant Ron Hellis, who leaves behind a wife and family, 509 00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:58,200 Speaker 1: just fifty four years old. Running into Borderline Bar and 510 00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:04,040 Speaker 1: Grill to try and say other people again, I know 511 00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:09,840 Speaker 1: it's not PC, but please join me in prayer for 512 00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:13,760 Speaker 1: the victims and their families as they woke up this 513 00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:18,840 Speaker 1: morning to discover their child was shot down on an 514 00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:23,880 Speaker 1: innocent night out on student night at a country restaurant 515 00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:27,760 Speaker 1: in bar joining me Alan Duke in l A. Alan, 516 00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:33,160 Speaker 1: I think it's very indicative, very probative as to who 517 00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:36,960 Speaker 1: he shot first. Several of the witnesses we've heard from 518 00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:40,040 Speaker 1: so far say the first person shot was the hostess, 519 00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:43,600 Speaker 1: a woman who was at the front door of the 520 00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:47,400 Speaker 1: Borderline Grill, who everybody knew because she was there every night. 521 00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:51,960 Speaker 1: She was the first person shot. Then it was the doorman, 522 00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:55,440 Speaker 1: the security person also standing near the door, and then 523 00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:58,800 Speaker 1: they also say he went behind the bar and started shooting. 524 00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:02,320 Speaker 1: Right now, parents and to determine where their child is. 525 00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:06,120 Speaker 1: The hospitals in triage right now, even now as they 526 00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:11,520 Speaker 1: try to determine who's dead and who is alive. Karen Smith, 527 00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:16,800 Speaker 1: forensics expert, joining me, it's so important that the crime 528 00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:22,320 Speaker 1: scene they handled delicately. The removal of bodies is a horrible, 529 00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:27,400 Speaker 1: a daunting task. Yeah, it is. It's uh, it's heartbreaking. 530 00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:31,920 Speaker 1: And once they identify those that are inside, they are, 531 00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:34,440 Speaker 1: like Cheryl McCullum said, they're going to dig into the 532 00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:37,200 Speaker 1: shooter social media. They're going to execute a search warrant 533 00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:41,080 Speaker 1: at his residence and find out if there's any evidence 534 00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:45,960 Speaker 1: left there of a footprint, of notes, of any other weapons. Um, 535 00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:48,520 Speaker 1: you know, just from experience, I can guarantee you there's more. 536 00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:50,919 Speaker 1: There's going to be a treasure trove of information on 537 00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:54,920 Speaker 1: both of those fronts. And you know, these these officers, 538 00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:57,799 Speaker 1: these investigators that are going to work this scene, that 539 00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:00,440 Speaker 1: they're going to carry this with them the rest of 540 00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:02,319 Speaker 1: their lives as well, and I know their heart. You're 541 00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:05,480 Speaker 1: breaking for the victims and for their colleagues. This just 542 00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:08,840 Speaker 1: months after fifty eight people killed that a country music 543 00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:14,840 Speaker 1: festival in Vegas when alone gunman opens fire in the Mandalay. 544 00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:19,080 Speaker 1: Now some people at the Borderline Bar at college night 545 00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:24,719 Speaker 1: had also apparently survived the shooting in Vegas. What about it? 546 00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:27,920 Speaker 1: Troy Slaton joining me, l a defense attorney who actually 547 00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:32,280 Speaker 1: represents the owner of Borderline Bar. What about it? Troy? Well, Luckily, Nancy, 548 00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:34,840 Speaker 1: I can report that I just heard from my my 549 00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:37,799 Speaker 1: friend and client who is the owner of Borderline Bar. 550 00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:40,600 Speaker 1: He he just texted me and let me know that 551 00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:43,359 Speaker 1: he was okay. He arrived at the bar right as 552 00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:47,839 Speaker 1: the shooting was occurring and helped drag some people to safety. Uh, 553 00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:51,799 Speaker 1: this was a country western night at Borderline Bar. I 554 00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:54,160 Speaker 1: don't know if any of my clients were there last 555 00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:58,040 Speaker 1: night yet, it's still too early. This is a horrific event. 556 00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:01,919 Speaker 1: Most people, Nancy, don't even experienced something like this once 557 00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:06,600 Speaker 1: in their lifetime, and for people to experience this twice 558 00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:11,880 Speaker 1: in about a year's time has got to be emotionally 559 00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:16,160 Speaker 1: and psychologically devastating. Listen to a witness. Where I was 560 00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:19,319 Speaker 1: looking at the time was at the front door, and 561 00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:23,799 Speaker 1: I saw them the suspect walk in and basically pull 562 00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:26,200 Speaker 1: out his gun and let off the first couple of 563 00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:29,000 Speaker 1: shots at the girl that was working the front desk, 564 00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:32,640 Speaker 1: And immediately I was in shock, and I was like, 565 00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:35,200 Speaker 1: oh my gosh, this is really happening right now. And 566 00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:37,680 Speaker 1: I immediately just went down to the floor just to 567 00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:39,400 Speaker 1: get cover and make sure I was safe, and just 568 00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:42,160 Speaker 1: some people that I was with, and I started crawling 569 00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:45,200 Speaker 1: on the floor until I was able to have access 570 00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:47,360 Speaker 1: to run out the door. And then when I started 571 00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:49,759 Speaker 1: running out the door, um, I heard more gunshots like 572 00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:51,160 Speaker 1: behind me, so I didn't know if they were coming 573 00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:53,200 Speaker 1: towards me or not, so I just took off in 574 00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:56,440 Speaker 1: a full sprint. The first call of shots fired came 575 00:36:56,440 --> 00:37:00,959 Speaker 1: in around eleven PM. According to Ventura County Sheriff Jeff Dean. 576 00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:05,320 Speaker 1: The gunman we believe shot a hostess that worked there 577 00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:10,000 Speaker 1: all the time. UH. A witness holding Harrah tells us 578 00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:12,839 Speaker 1: that he sees the same host as the same girl 579 00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:18,360 Speaker 1: every time he's there. Friendly, sweet outgoing, then shoots a 580 00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:23,200 Speaker 1: bouncer clearly so he won't be stopped, apparently using a 581 00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:28,560 Speaker 1: short barreled handgun with a black trench coat, eyeglasses, black 582 00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:34,840 Speaker 1: Beard drove his mommy's car to the scene. It's overwhelming 583 00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:40,920 Speaker 1: to those that have suffered this tremendous, tremendous loss. Were 584 00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:44,920 Speaker 1: their warning signs? We don't know, but what we do 585 00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:50,359 Speaker 1: know is that grieving families all around the country are 586 00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:57,200 Speaker 1: mourning now. Sheriff's Sergeant Ron helis killed in this Thousand 587 00:37:57,239 --> 00:38:03,600 Speaker 1: Oaks attack, leaving behind a wife and a son. We 588 00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:09,239 Speaker 1: know that most of the victims were between one and 589 00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:14,520 Speaker 1: twenty three, coming from local Christian schools. Listen right now 590 00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:19,000 Speaker 1: to your county Sheriff Jeff Dean. The suspect was identified 591 00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:23,240 Speaker 1: as Iron David Long. He was twenty eight years old. 592 00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:27,080 Speaker 1: We've had several contacts with Mr Long over the years. 593 00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:29,960 Speaker 1: In April of this year, deputies were called to his 594 00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:33,760 Speaker 1: house for a subject disturbing. They went to the house, 595 00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:37,280 Speaker 1: they talked to him, he was he was somewhat irate, 596 00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:42,840 Speaker 1: acting a little irrationally. They called out our crisis intervention team, 597 00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:46,319 Speaker 1: our mental health specialist who met with him, talked to 598 00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:50,200 Speaker 1: him and cleared him. Didn't feel that he was qualified 599 00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:53,960 Speaker 1: to be taken under It appears he walked up to 600 00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:57,560 Speaker 1: the scene. He shot the security guard that was standing 601 00:38:57,560 --> 00:39:03,200 Speaker 1: outside he stepped inside. It appears that he turned to 602 00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:06,480 Speaker 1: the right and shot several of the other security and 603 00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:12,480 Speaker 1: employees there and then began opening fire inside the nightclub. 604 00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:15,920 Speaker 1: We have we have no idea what the motive was 605 00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:22,560 Speaker 1: at this point, and that held was never placed on him. 606 00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:25,399 Speaker 1: The crisis, the crisis the mental health experts out there 607 00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:29,240 Speaker 1: cleared him that day. We he was he was a veteran, 608 00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:31,359 Speaker 1: he was in the United States Marine Corps and she's 609 00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:35,040 Speaker 1: already heard maybe suffering from PTSD to a crisis team. 610 00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:38,239 Speaker 1: I that was I understand that was part of the 611 00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:40,319 Speaker 1: discussion when the deputies went out to the call with 612 00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:44,000 Speaker 1: the crisis team that felt he might be suffering from PTSD, 613 00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:46,560 Speaker 1: facing that the fact he was a veteran and had 614 00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:48,440 Speaker 1: been on the core. Can you can find anymore how 615 00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:53,040 Speaker 1: the deputy was shot. When Sergeant Helas and the higher 616 00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:57,480 Speaker 1: patrol officer went in, uh, they immediately exchanged gunfire with 617 00:39:57,719 --> 00:40:01,480 Speaker 1: the suspect, and that's when the sergeant Helis was shot 618 00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:05,480 Speaker 1: several times. Do you know the suspect shot No, I 619 00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:08,040 Speaker 1: have no idea about the service rector when the suspect 620 00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:11,960 Speaker 1: was shot. If he shot himself, think it's not gonna 621 00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:14,480 Speaker 1: we believe he shot himself. When the officers went in 622 00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:17,880 Speaker 1: and made re entry he they found him already deceased. 623 00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:24,319 Speaker 1: How long before he he was found inside uh an 624 00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:27,359 Speaker 1: office just adjacent to the entry to the bar. It's 625 00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:29,799 Speaker 1: our understand that Sergeant Helis was able to call his 626 00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:34,000 Speaker 1: wife right before he ran into the bar. Sergeant Heillis 627 00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:36,399 Speaker 1: was having a conversation with his wife on the phone, 628 00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:39,040 Speaker 1: as he does several times during the shift, and said 629 00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:40,880 Speaker 1: to her, Hey, I gotta go handle a call. I 630 00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:43,200 Speaker 1: love you, I'll talk to you later. An alldication that 631 00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:47,920 Speaker 1: he made a targeted Now there's no indication that he 632 00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:51,279 Speaker 1: targeted the employees or we haven't found any correlation. We'll 633 00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:53,600 Speaker 1: probably no more after we execute the search war in 634 00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:56,040 Speaker 1: his house. That maybe there was a motive for this 635 00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:59,440 Speaker 1: particular night, but at this point we have no information 636 00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:02,000 Speaker 1: leading to the at all. This is how it sounded 637 00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:07,760 Speaker 1: on police radios. The progress at the quarterline really drive. 638 00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:12,319 Speaker 1: Have you hearing dead shots fired? One person advising there's 639 00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:17,319 Speaker 1: a subject inside, shooting approximately eight shots. The weapon was 640 00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:21,000 Speaker 1: a black semi automatic. He does not have a description 641 00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:26,560 Speaker 1: arcubis the subject was at the front shooting everybody. If 642 00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:29,319 Speaker 1: he's still inside the bar. Yes, it's just funny. To 643 00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:32,400 Speaker 1: the borderline. We have one victim advice. He was shot 644 00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:35,399 Speaker 1: in fleeting at the entrance. Four sons, three, We got 645 00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:38,879 Speaker 1: multiple people. Don't we need love angels? Released? Five young 646 00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:42,440 Speaker 1: inside at the borderline. We do. We're landline with some 647 00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:48,000 Speaker 1: witnesses and victims that are inside the bathroom. We have people. Uh, 648 00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:51,719 Speaker 1: he's in the attic with nine other people at the borderline. 649 00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:56,160 Speaker 1: That police radio courtesy of Broadcastify. Listen to this man 650 00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:58,160 Speaker 1: who was in the bar with his steps on as 651 00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:01,080 Speaker 1: the shooting started. While he describes what he saw it, 652 00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:03,680 Speaker 1: you can hear his feelings of guilt for not being 653 00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:07,680 Speaker 1: able to stop the gunmen. He shut the the cashier 654 00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:12,920 Speaker 1: just a young girl, and then he started moving to 655 00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:17,080 Speaker 1: the right. It wasn't looking at us, and even into 656 00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:20,480 Speaker 1: the office where all the cash and stuff is. He 657 00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:25,840 Speaker 1: didn't say anything at all. He just started shooting. And 658 00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:29,440 Speaker 1: I should have stayed until he changed his clip. But 659 00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:33,040 Speaker 1: I was worried about my boy, but I should have stayed. 660 00:42:33,239 --> 00:42:40,520 Speaker 1: I apologize to anybody who got her. I'm passed. I'm sorry. Fine, 661 00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:44,080 Speaker 1: not much you could have done any situation like that. 662 00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:47,840 Speaker 1: They're all young I'm I'm fifty six, I lived life, 663 00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:54,880 Speaker 1: and they're all young and this shouldn't happen and it 664 00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:59,960 Speaker 1: was just some low life taking lives I shouldn't have 665 00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:02,440 Speaker 1: and take him. Could you could you tell what kind 666 00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:04,600 Speaker 1: of weapon he was using? He had a he had 667 00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:07,319 Speaker 1: a handgun. I couldn't tell. It was allowed maybe a 668 00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:12,360 Speaker 1: funny for maybe a little smaller, but it had a 669 00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:15,600 Speaker 1: good ring to it, and it was just loud, and 670 00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:17,960 Speaker 1: he had smoked. He was trying to confuse people, and 671 00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:20,360 Speaker 1: then he went to the right to start to shoot 672 00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:24,720 Speaker 1: on the dance floor and there was just young people 673 00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:31,320 Speaker 1: like you know, eighteen, just having a great time. This 674 00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:37,320 Speaker 1: maniac came in and started shooting people for no reason 675 00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:40,640 Speaker 1: at all. These people have never heard anybody in there 676 00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:46,040 Speaker 1: on handstad and they're just kids. They're just kids. I'm 677 00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:49,680 Speaker 1: so sorry. So you two just got out of there 678 00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:52,080 Speaker 1: as big as you could. Could you tell if the 679 00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:56,040 Speaker 1: fiery was going to he it was caused until he 680 00:43:56,160 --> 00:44:01,359 Speaker 1: changed clips. If you have if amation, or if you 681 00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:06,320 Speaker 1: need information on your loved one, please dial eight zero 682 00:44:06,440 --> 00:44:12,000 Speaker 1: five four six five six six five zero eight oh 683 00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:17,000 Speaker 1: five four six five six six five zero. Nancy Grace 684 00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:20,880 Speaker 1: Crime Stories signing off goodbye friend,