1 00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:07,240 Speaker 1: Hi, this is Annie and this is a Bridget and 2 00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:20,840 Speaker 1: you're listening to Steph Mom. Never told you quick morning. 3 00:00:21,239 --> 00:00:23,119 Speaker 1: Just so y'all know you can probably tell from my 4 00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:26,000 Speaker 1: voice I'm under the weather, so I'm a bit smith 5 00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 1: Lee and that more raspy than usual. Just f by 6 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:32,599 Speaker 1: I podcasting Wall six. I'm a professional. Let's do this. 7 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:37,400 Speaker 1: You are a professional, Bridget. And another professional is the 8 00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:41,120 Speaker 1: subject of this episode today, and that is New Zealand 9 00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:44,800 Speaker 1: Prime Minister just Senda our Dern. Our Dern was elected 10 00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:48,760 Speaker 1: in October of the youngest prime minister the country has 11 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:52,160 Speaker 1: had since eighteen fifty six. And if you haven't heard, 12 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:55,880 Speaker 1: she gave birth in June to a healthy baby girl 13 00:00:56,440 --> 00:00:59,000 Speaker 1: and she is only the second world leader to do 14 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 1: so while in office. Wow, that actually surprises me. That 15 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:06,400 Speaker 1: on the one hand, good for her, but to only 16 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:09,559 Speaker 1: be the second person to do that is is surprising 17 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:11,200 Speaker 1: to me. I'm like, oh, I would have assumed there's 18 00:01:11,240 --> 00:01:14,959 Speaker 1: been more considering child birth is a thing that we do. 19 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:20,720 Speaker 1: It's like we've spoken about before, Bridget, where it's it's good, 20 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:25,800 Speaker 1: but it's sad that it's so good, you know, like 21 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:32,680 Speaker 1: it's it shouldn't be only the second that's kind of shocking, um, 22 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:36,479 Speaker 1: but that is the case. She arrived to a public 23 00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:40,240 Speaker 1: hospital in her own car, driven by her partner. She's 24 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:43,640 Speaker 1: the first leader to ever take maternity leave. She's going 25 00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:46,640 Speaker 1: to be consulted and continue to read cabinet papers while 26 00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:50,280 Speaker 1: she's away for six weeks. But yeah, she's taking maternity leave. 27 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 1: Good for her right. In an interview with Radio New Zealand, 28 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:58,000 Speaker 1: she said, I am not the first woman to multitask. 29 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:00,280 Speaker 1: I am not the first woman to work and have 30 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:03,560 Speaker 1: a baby. There are many women who have done this before. 31 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:06,960 Speaker 1: I love that. I just love that she's someone with 32 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:10,480 Speaker 1: such a big platform is normalizing that it's okay to 33 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:14,480 Speaker 1: be a busy, successful working woman and also take maternity leave. 34 00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:17,640 Speaker 1: I think it was Cheryl Sandberg who made headlines for 35 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:20,000 Speaker 1: not taking maternity leave, and like, you know, if she 36 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:22,560 Speaker 1: didn't feel like she needed it, fine, But I just 37 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 1: think a woman who is successful and driven at a 38 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:27,520 Speaker 1: working woman being like, yeah, I'm taking my leave and 39 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:31,079 Speaker 1: you can do just really models that it's okay. Doesn't 40 00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:33,880 Speaker 1: mean that you're you know, doing a bad job at 41 00:02:33,919 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 1: your job. If you take the time that you need 42 00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:38,240 Speaker 1: after you have a baby. No, I would argue that 43 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:42,120 Speaker 1: recognizing that you need that time and that other things 44 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 1: than work, surprise, surprise, are important. I think that's the 45 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:47,839 Speaker 1: mark of a good employee and someone who is good 46 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:51,360 Speaker 1: at their job and recognizes their limits. I think it's good. 47 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:55,639 Speaker 1: And I wanted to mention her partner is the host 48 00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 1: of a show called Fish of the Day and he's 49 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:01,359 Speaker 1: planning on being a stay at home dad, and when 50 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:04,239 Speaker 1: asked why they're not married, are Durn answered it sounds 51 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:07,800 Speaker 1: terrible because we're very committed to each other. Marriage is 52 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:10,440 Speaker 1: just not something we've really gotten around too. We haven't 53 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:14,440 Speaker 1: correctly sequenced, perhaps, and her partner, Clark Grayford, said he 54 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:18,640 Speaker 1: liked that they were doing everything in reverse. I like 55 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:23,080 Speaker 1: that too, I mean, I mean they are reflective of many, many, 56 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:26,800 Speaker 1: many sort of less traditional couples out there, who are partners, 57 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 1: who lived together, who don't live together, who have who 58 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:31,160 Speaker 1: are co parents, like I don't know. I think it's 59 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:34,840 Speaker 1: cool that they are illustrating and modeling what we all 60 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:37,240 Speaker 1: know is very true from this living in the world, 61 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 1: that not everybody who has a child is married together. 62 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 1: That like, there are all kinds of ways to be 63 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:45,680 Speaker 1: a family. Yeah, I like that too. I mean, we 64 00:03:45,720 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 1: all know it to be true, but we so rarely 65 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:49,840 Speaker 1: see it. I feel so and when we see it, 66 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:53,440 Speaker 1: I think we're like even, I know, you know that 67 00:03:53,880 --> 00:03:55,920 Speaker 1: this thing, this kind of thing exists, but when I 68 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:58,360 Speaker 1: encounter it myself, I'm like, Oh, you're not married and 69 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:00,600 Speaker 1: have a baby. Like it's it's so hard to break 70 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:04,840 Speaker 1: that internal thing that's set up for by society that says, oh, 71 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:07,080 Speaker 1: to have a family, you have to be married, lived 72 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:09,640 Speaker 1: in the same house, blah blah blah. Yeah. When I 73 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:11,920 Speaker 1: was first reading about this, because a lot of listeners 74 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:15,880 Speaker 1: suggested that we talked about talk about this, I was like, Oh, 75 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:20,400 Speaker 1: she had a baby in office and she's not married. Wow, 76 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:24,800 Speaker 1: this shouldn't be shocking at all, because there are so 77 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:29,520 Speaker 1: many people that have these situations, very similar situations. Our 78 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:34,520 Speaker 1: durn is New Zealand's third female prime minister, and if 79 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:37,840 Speaker 1: you're wondering who the first world leader to give birth 80 00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:40,839 Speaker 1: in office was, it was Pakistan's at two time Prime minister, 81 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:45,080 Speaker 1: Benezir Bhutto. Both leaders were thirty seven when they gave birth, 82 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:47,560 Speaker 1: and our Dern's baby was born on what would have 83 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:51,559 Speaker 1: been Bhutto's birthday. She was assassinated in two thousand seven. 84 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:54,520 Speaker 1: And while bootso hid her pregnancy as long as she could, 85 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:58,120 Speaker 1: our durn let people know six months in advance. So 86 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:01,440 Speaker 1: this is wild. Her pregnancy was such a big secret 87 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:03,680 Speaker 1: that most of her colleagues had no idea that she 88 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:06,520 Speaker 1: was even pregnant until she delivered the baby. A member 89 00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:09,400 Speaker 1: of the cabinet said about it quote and then lo 90 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:11,840 Speaker 1: and behold, suddenly we learned that she was not only 91 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:15,560 Speaker 1: gone and delivered democracy, she's also delivered a baby. She 92 00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:18,600 Speaker 1: got a ceasec and returned the next day, not realizing 93 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:21,360 Speaker 1: that she was the first world leader to have given birth. 94 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:25,080 Speaker 1: And this happened during a time of political turmoil in Pakistan. 95 00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:27,600 Speaker 1: After having a baby, she made it through a vote 96 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:30,680 Speaker 1: of no confidence and her government was facing an onslaught 97 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:34,640 Speaker 1: from a military funded right wing alliance. Bhutto later said 98 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:38,040 Speaker 1: it was a defining moment, especially for young women, proving 99 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:39,880 Speaker 1: that a woman could work and have a baby in 100 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:43,920 Speaker 1: the highest and most challenging leadership positions. So they're kind 101 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:48,400 Speaker 1: of almost mirror opposites. And she sort of maid her 102 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:52,159 Speaker 1: baby and went right back to where it didn't take 103 00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:55,360 Speaker 1: she Chanyl Sandberg did. She didn't take to Cheryl of Hamburg. 104 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:59,039 Speaker 1: Did that's gonna catch on? I know it. A month later, 105 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:02,239 Speaker 1: Bhutto's government was dismissed and a rival came to power 106 00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:05,320 Speaker 1: who criticized Bhutto as being quote greedy, and that she 107 00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:09,839 Speaker 1: was putting motherhood, domesticity and glamour over her duties to 108 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 1: the country. But how because she didn't even take time off. 109 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:18,159 Speaker 1: I think it's because when she was pregnant with her 110 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:22,120 Speaker 1: first child. The leader of the military sacked the government 111 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:24,120 Speaker 1: so that elections would be held when Bhutto was in 112 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:26,120 Speaker 1: the final months of pregnancy and hoped she would be 113 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:29,240 Speaker 1: unable to campaign as effectively. But they got the date 114 00:06:29,279 --> 00:06:31,560 Speaker 1: wrong and news of a baby on the way added 115 00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:34,800 Speaker 1: excitement to the campaign. Oh my god, people love a baby. 116 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:37,960 Speaker 1: People love a baby, like when a celebrity or somebody 117 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:40,440 Speaker 1: is pregnant, people are like, oh my god, she's pregnant. 118 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:43,480 Speaker 1: Like that does that didn't surprise me that that generated 119 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:47,120 Speaker 1: a level of at least one excitement and publicity, but 120 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:52,120 Speaker 1: also maybe a little bit of goodwill. Yeah, it definitely backfired, 121 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:54,560 Speaker 1: and some theories that maybe it didn't backfire, but Bhutto 122 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:59,480 Speaker 1: purposefully spread misinformation about her do date. Oh that's actually diabolical. 123 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:03,919 Speaker 1: Have you ever seen the movie Knocked Up? I have not, 124 00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:07,160 Speaker 1: so one of the plotlines and Knocked Up is Katherine 125 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:12,000 Speaker 1: Heigl's character is like an e news journalist and she's 126 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:15,360 Speaker 1: an on camera like she interviews celebrities, and she finds 127 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:18,720 Speaker 1: out that she's has an unplanned pregnancy, and she's terrified 128 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:21,000 Speaker 1: they're gonna fire her that, like, you know, she can't 129 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:23,200 Speaker 1: be pregnant on TV. They're gonna let her go, even 130 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:25,720 Speaker 1: though it's technically illegal to fire somebody for getting pregnant, 131 00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:30,680 Speaker 1: but we all know it happens, and she is really 132 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:33,720 Speaker 1: surprised to find that they love it. They love her 133 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:36,120 Speaker 1: being pregnant, They love the idea of her interviewing other 134 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 1: pregnant celebs and all of that. So this reminds me 135 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 1: of that. Yeah. I think we've done h an episode 136 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:46,480 Speaker 1: on this show before about baby mania and why why 137 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:50,640 Speaker 1: people get so excited about celebrity babies in particular, and 138 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:53,200 Speaker 1: it goes back a long way, or maybe maybe other 139 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:55,720 Speaker 1: people weren't as surprised by this as I was. But 140 00:07:55,760 --> 00:07:59,200 Speaker 1: I remember reading like royalty. I guess that's obvious, but 141 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:04,520 Speaker 1: back in undreds England when royals are pregnant. It is 142 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:08,120 Speaker 1: very exciting and people would place bets on the gender 143 00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:12,080 Speaker 1: and read every bit of news about it. So it's 144 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:16,000 Speaker 1: a it seems to be kind of a it's not 145 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 1: going away. It's not. It's not. So we have some 146 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:24,080 Speaker 1: more to talk about here, but first we're gonna pause 147 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:25,920 Speaker 1: for a quick break for a word from our sponsor, 148 00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:39,200 Speaker 1: and we're back. Thank you sponsor. Before becoming New Zealand's 149 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:42,600 Speaker 1: Prime Minister, our turn served as the opposition a labor 150 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:44,640 Speaker 1: leader and on her first day of the job, she 151 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:47,640 Speaker 1: was asked, a lot of women in New Zealand feel 152 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:49,840 Speaker 1: like they have to make a choice between having babies 153 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:52,840 Speaker 1: and having a career or continuing their career. So is 154 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:55,320 Speaker 1: that a decision you feel you have to make or 155 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:58,600 Speaker 1: that you feel you've already made. And when the interview 156 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:02,719 Speaker 1: became focused on that and the right of employers to 157 00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:06,240 Speaker 1: know if an employee or potential employee intended to take 158 00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:09,720 Speaker 1: maternity leave, if it was acceptable for the Prime Minister 159 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:15,600 Speaker 1: to do so instead of policy questions are durn got angry. Quote. 160 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:18,240 Speaker 1: It is a woman's decision about when they choose to 161 00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:20,719 Speaker 1: have children and it should not predetermine whether or not 162 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:24,240 Speaker 1: they are given a job or have job opportunities here 163 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:28,559 Speaker 1: here are durn Yeah. Yeah, I just think that she 164 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:31,720 Speaker 1: having someone so powerful be the person who was going 165 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:33,600 Speaker 1: through that and saying that and saying yeah, like, I'll 166 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:35,559 Speaker 1: do what I want. It's up to me to decide 167 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:37,680 Speaker 1: when I have a baby. I have body autonomy and 168 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:41,319 Speaker 1: my professional life should be completely separate from that. Yeah. 169 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:44,640 Speaker 1: And after this whole exchange, the upward that followed propelled 170 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:47,600 Speaker 1: her to the front pages in newspapers around the world. 171 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:49,760 Speaker 1: She said that dylma she faced giving birth to a 172 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:52,160 Speaker 1: baby was no different than the one faced by most 173 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:55,720 Speaker 1: women in the workforce or not in the workforce. Although 174 00:09:56,360 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 1: it felt like she'd come out of nowhere, she had 175 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:01,560 Speaker 1: been working in politics since her teens, and she entered 176 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:03,720 Speaker 1: the New Zealand Parliament at the age of twenty eight. 177 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 1: The excitement fell around the world at her appointment as 178 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:12,120 Speaker 1: Prime Minister has been dubbed just sind A Mania. We 179 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:15,760 Speaker 1: love to give a catchy nickname the things we do 180 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:20,040 Speaker 1: we do. A group called hashtag knit for Jacinda started 181 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:22,840 Speaker 1: a campaign of knitting baby clothes and blankets for hospitals 182 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:25,240 Speaker 1: and shelters in her honor, which I think is so cute. 183 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:29,240 Speaker 1: I do too. Knitting is something that I always have 184 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:31,720 Speaker 1: wanted to learn, but I put it on the back burner, 185 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:34,040 Speaker 1: like immediately I have the thought you should learn to knit, 186 00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:37,439 Speaker 1: and then it immediately it's like maybe later. Yeah. I 187 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:40,120 Speaker 1: actually have seen so many interesting cases where knitting is 188 00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:43,000 Speaker 1: sort of used as this like radical feminist art, like 189 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:46,480 Speaker 1: like of reclaiming something that's domestic into something like radical, 190 00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:48,800 Speaker 1: like the woman who made those pussy hats with the 191 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:52,319 Speaker 1: Women's March or here in d C. Sometimes things get 192 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:55,600 Speaker 1: nit bombed, where like people will knit things over them, 193 00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:57,960 Speaker 1: like if it's an offensive sign or something, someone will 194 00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:00,559 Speaker 1: like knit something and like drape it over. We should both, 195 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:02,040 Speaker 1: we should. We should learn how to knit by the 196 00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:04,400 Speaker 1: end of the summer. Even we should, and then we 197 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:06,480 Speaker 1: could do an episode and talk about it, and while 198 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:09,600 Speaker 1: we're podcasting will be knitting because we're women and we 199 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:14,840 Speaker 1: can multitask. Seeing a woman hold this position of power 200 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:17,920 Speaker 1: is meaningful. One of our Durn's favorite things is seeing 201 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:21,320 Speaker 1: the faces of little girls light up when they see her. Quote. 202 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:23,760 Speaker 1: If they see a woman in a job like this 203 00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:28,160 Speaker 1: and it has an effect, then that's wonderful. It is wonderful. Yeah, 204 00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:30,120 Speaker 1: I mean, there's probably so many little girls out there 205 00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:32,280 Speaker 1: who will be inspired to go into public office because 206 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:36,120 Speaker 1: of her. Yeah, I hope so. Um. When critics pressed 207 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:40,160 Speaker 1: our Durn about her ability to wear both has, she responded, 208 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:42,559 Speaker 1: none of them detected. I had a pretty bad morning 209 00:11:42,559 --> 00:11:45,520 Speaker 1: sickness for three months of establishing the government. It's what 210 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:49,640 Speaker 1: ladies do, So this could not be more true. I 211 00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:53,120 Speaker 1: have this theory that women are more likely than men 212 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 1: to go to work sick because as women, like, we 213 00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:58,400 Speaker 1: just need to suck it up and go in and 214 00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:00,600 Speaker 1: like you don't want to see like your you know 215 00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:03,440 Speaker 1: week are frail or blah blah blah, Heaven forbid. Like 216 00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:06,760 Speaker 1: I remember during the election when Hillary Clinton felt faint 217 00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:08,760 Speaker 1: and all the news reports were like, oh my god, 218 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:11,720 Speaker 1: she okay, she's old and frail and sick and she 219 00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:14,199 Speaker 1: can't be president. Um, And it's like, no, she went 220 00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:16,600 Speaker 1: to work with the flu, as many women do, Like 221 00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:19,960 Speaker 1: that's what we do. Yeah, I agree. It kind of 222 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:22,360 Speaker 1: reminds me of when we did the Women in Paint 223 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:25,120 Speaker 1: episode and you made that joke about the woman in 224 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:28,600 Speaker 1: the emergency room with the harpoon and just says it's fine. 225 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:31,600 Speaker 1: I don't want to be a bother, get to me whenever. 226 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:35,600 Speaker 1: I'll just be here. Don't worry about it. It's true, 227 00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:40,000 Speaker 1: and we actually have some numbers behind that to back 228 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:42,199 Speaker 1: that up. But first, one last quick break for a 229 00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:53,640 Speaker 1: word from our sponsor, and we're back. Thank you sponsor. 230 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:57,480 Speaker 1: So our turn's right. It is what ladies do, and 231 00:12:57,520 --> 00:13:00,200 Speaker 1: we're doing it more and more in the u US, 232 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:02,480 Speaker 1: where we are lagging way behind when it comes to 233 00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:05,559 Speaker 1: maternity leave since this beer. Data collected between two thousand 234 00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:09,280 Speaker 1: and six to eight showed that sixty six of mothers 235 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:13,320 Speaker 1: giving birth to their first child worked through their first pregnancy. 236 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:15,439 Speaker 1: If you look at data from the sixties, about six 237 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:20,000 Speaker 1: pregnant women took off of work a month before birth. 238 00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:24,400 Speaker 1: These days, that percent is at eighteen, while of women 239 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:27,920 Speaker 1: work until within a month of due date. Women are 240 00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:32,320 Speaker 1: also going back to work more quickly after giving birth. Yeah, 241 00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:35,000 Speaker 1: this will probably surprise no one. According to a Pew 242 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:38,560 Speaker 1: Research Center survey, they found that when compared to fathers, 243 00:13:38,679 --> 00:13:41,800 Speaker 1: mothers were far more likely to face a workplace interruption 244 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:47,000 Speaker 1: like reduced work hours. So we're basically working more but 245 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:51,479 Speaker 1: also being punished for more, right, and no surprise, Pregnancy 246 00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:53,920 Speaker 1: discrimination is still a big thing in the US, and 247 00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:57,359 Speaker 1: women who are pregnant or might become pregnant faced emotions, 248 00:13:57,679 --> 00:14:01,680 Speaker 1: mis promotions, are even possibly getting fired. Discharge makes up 249 00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:06,120 Speaker 1: one third of complaints um As of the U s 250 00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:09,640 Speaker 1: Equal Employment Opportunity Commissions, the e e o C and 251 00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:12,920 Speaker 1: Fair Employment agencies at the state level had filed almost 252 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:17,160 Speaker 1: thirty one thousand cases of pregnancy discrimination. This despite the 253 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:20,880 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy Pregnancy Discrimination Act making it illegal to deny 254 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:24,560 Speaker 1: women job opportunities or promotions because she is or might 255 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:30,080 Speaker 1: become pregnant. Across all industries, races, and ethnicities, women report 256 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:33,840 Speaker 1: pregnancy discrimination, but Black women are hit the hardest. It 257 00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:36,600 Speaker 1: didn't surprised me at all. I've actually worked in places 258 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:39,240 Speaker 1: where there would be if if there was even a 259 00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:41,240 Speaker 1: room or that someone was pregnant, it would there like 260 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:44,160 Speaker 1: a hush would fall over the office. And you know, 261 00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:47,440 Speaker 1: people if if you were wearing baggy clothes like like 262 00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:49,960 Speaker 1: it was almost like people were afraid that people would 263 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:52,040 Speaker 1: even just think not even if you were, they would 264 00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:56,760 Speaker 1: just suspect that you were pregnant. Wow. I had an 265 00:14:56,840 --> 00:15:01,560 Speaker 1: office once where these people you to play. Some of 266 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:05,960 Speaker 1: my coworkers used to play a game called um fat, 267 00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:10,040 Speaker 1: fashionable or pregnant, and they would try to like based 268 00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:13,520 Speaker 1: on your clothes ascertained if you were just if your 269 00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:17,040 Speaker 1: baggy clothes was a fashion thing, or because you're fat, 270 00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:22,120 Speaker 1: or because you're pregnant, which was sounds like a really 271 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:27,080 Speaker 1: classy game. Yeah, very very classy. Indeed, a report from 272 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:30,240 Speaker 1: the Equality and Human Rights Commission the e h r 273 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:35,160 Speaker 1: C from found that in Britain, thousand new mothers are 274 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:38,640 Speaker 1: losing their jobs annually, and that the number is up 275 00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:41,840 Speaker 1: from a decade earlier. Another distressing stat is that ten 276 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:45,440 Speaker 1: percent of pregnant women reported being discouraged by their employer 277 00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:49,680 Speaker 1: from getting checkups for both mother and child after birth, 278 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:53,520 Speaker 1: and seven percent reported a pressure to quit. That is 279 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:56,800 Speaker 1: so messed up, like basically pressuring you to put your baby, 280 00:15:57,000 --> 00:16:01,359 Speaker 1: your unborn child's life at risk by forgoing check Yeah, 281 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:04,040 Speaker 1: and you know now that you've had a kid, just 282 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:08,320 Speaker 1: we don't need you here anymore. Just quit. That's terrible, 283 00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:12,560 Speaker 1: what a terrible work environment. Pregnant women have reported working harder, 284 00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:15,000 Speaker 1: as we touched on earlier, to avoid the stereotype of 285 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:19,720 Speaker 1: being distracted and unable to concentrate. So clearly we have 286 00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:22,960 Speaker 1: a lot of work to do to to change this. Yeah, 287 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:26,480 Speaker 1: we got to catch up. This is unacceptable, it is 288 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:28,720 Speaker 1: and we would love to hear from listeners around the 289 00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:31,840 Speaker 1: world about what the situation is in your nick of 290 00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:35,880 Speaker 1: the Woods. And speaking of listeners, it's time for listener mail. 291 00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:41,000 Speaker 1: Sophia wrote, I just wanted to say something about Anne 292 00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:44,640 Speaker 1: Rice's hypocrisy regarding fan fiction. In spite of making an 293 00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:47,920 Speaker 1: active effort to ruin people's lives for writing about her characters, 294 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:51,720 Speaker 1: including having her lawyer's attempt to destroy unrelated small businesses 295 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:54,840 Speaker 1: owned by fan pic writers, she actually came out in 296 00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:58,480 Speaker 1: full throated support for Fifty Shades of Gray and E. L. James. 297 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 1: Apparently only her own intellectual property is to be protected. 298 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:06,399 Speaker 1: Anne Rice wrote a series of Sleeping Beauty erotic novels 299 00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:10,679 Speaker 1: under the pseudonym A and Rocolar. Three of the books 300 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:13,160 Speaker 1: were written in the early eighties and a fourth was released. 301 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:17,560 Speaker 1: In the series, Beauty wakes up to the Prince raping 302 00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:19,879 Speaker 1: her and is taken to his kingdom as a sex slave. 303 00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:24,639 Speaker 1: Problematic but non con non consensual and dub con dubious 304 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:27,679 Speaker 1: consent fantasies can be explored safely through erotica and fan 305 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:30,040 Speaker 1: fiction if that's what people are interested in. The framing 306 00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:33,200 Speaker 1: device of Rice's work pretty clearly establishes that the content 307 00:17:33,359 --> 00:17:36,320 Speaker 1: is not how healthy b DSM relationships are conducted in 308 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:39,800 Speaker 1: a way that Fifty Shades emphatically does not take that 309 00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:42,719 Speaker 1: kind of care. There was a fair bit of controversy 310 00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:45,920 Speaker 1: involving Rice shooting down any discussion on her Facebook page 311 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:49,399 Speaker 1: that was remotely negative about fifty Shades and blocking a 312 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:51,760 Speaker 1: lot of people for expressing their concern that the series 313 00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:55,399 Speaker 1: romanticizes abuse by not establishing that stalking and rape are 314 00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:58,160 Speaker 1: not cool things for your boyfriend to do. I did 315 00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:00,000 Speaker 1: have a thought in regards to the culture that surrounds 316 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:02,600 Speaker 1: flash fiction that you may not have been aware to cover. 317 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:06,040 Speaker 1: It's a negative aspect of the fandom which I hope 318 00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:09,280 Speaker 1: will continue to disappear. There is, unfortunately a great deal 319 00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:14,000 Speaker 1: of internalized misogyny among creators of transformative fiction. In some cases, 320 00:18:14,119 --> 00:18:16,560 Speaker 1: it's the part of the thick where the canon girlfriend 321 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:19,400 Speaker 1: is reduced to an out of character shrew who must 322 00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:22,720 Speaker 1: be swiftly removed without the male characters looking bad for leaving. 323 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:25,080 Speaker 1: Cheating is the sort of thing I hope has fallen 324 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:26,600 Speaker 1: out of fashion. But it was one of the things 325 00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:29,399 Speaker 1: that turned me off fan fiction a while back. There's 326 00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:32,240 Speaker 1: so much value in these creative spaces which are predominantly 327 00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:34,560 Speaker 1: built and driven by women and girls, or in the 328 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:37,000 Speaker 1: case of the world I'm currently working on women in 329 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:40,480 Speaker 1: a smattering of men and non binary individuals. I think 330 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:43,280 Speaker 1: my main reason for bringing up the internalized misogyny, which 331 00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:46,720 Speaker 1: can be tied to fetishizing MLM relationships but not always 332 00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:49,360 Speaker 1: that can crop up, is actually so that people who 333 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:51,959 Speaker 1: might have encountered things like that can keep looking for 334 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:54,639 Speaker 1: something that speaks to them, even if they're initially confronted 335 00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:58,440 Speaker 1: with negativity. I have made close, lasting friendships with people 336 00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:01,800 Speaker 1: I have are pied with role played with, and the 337 00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:05,040 Speaker 1: right groups can become vital support networks. And I could 338 00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:07,359 Speaker 1: definitely go on about the pros and cons of this 339 00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:10,160 Speaker 1: sort of collaborative fiction, but I'm already writing far more 340 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:13,400 Speaker 1: than I meant to um. She also mentioned in regards 341 00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:15,840 Speaker 1: to our Action Figure episode and the whole switch up 342 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:18,120 Speaker 1: of the Iron Man three plots so that there would 343 00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:20,879 Speaker 1: be a male villain action figure instead of a female 344 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:24,119 Speaker 1: villain action figure. They never even made the action figure, 345 00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:27,840 Speaker 1: so it was pointless. It was all pointless. You know, 346 00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:30,120 Speaker 1: I gotta say, I am kind of here for this 347 00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:34,399 Speaker 1: and Rice dragging, Like who knew and Rice was this 348 00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:38,960 Speaker 1: much of a not so nice person? I think and 349 00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:41,760 Speaker 1: Rice is gonna come for us. Um yeah, are we 350 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:43,639 Speaker 1: are we start? Is this? Is this the beginning of 351 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:47,119 Speaker 1: a new podcast feud? Does she have a podcast? I 352 00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:49,720 Speaker 1: don't know. And Rice, if you're listening, come on our podcast, 353 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:54,000 Speaker 1: you coward. Oh man, I'm gonna have nightmares to night. 354 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:57,920 Speaker 1: And Rice is at my door. I did want to 355 00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:01,320 Speaker 1: mention this because, um, the internal as eslogyny she's talking about, 356 00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:02,879 Speaker 1: that's something I have seen as well. And I was 357 00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:05,800 Speaker 1: always kind of confused by when I was younger, Like 358 00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:08,720 Speaker 1: why is it that Jenny from Harry Potter is suddenly 359 00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:13,480 Speaker 1: just a horrible human person that is so one dimensional? 360 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:15,359 Speaker 1: And this makes a lot of sense to me, So 361 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:17,320 Speaker 1: I did want to I did want to include that 362 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:20,520 Speaker 1: in there, that it is unfortunate. Um, but a lot 363 00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:25,560 Speaker 1: of times the girlfriend is reduced to just a a 364 00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:28,879 Speaker 1: shrill shrew that you need to get rid of very quickly. 365 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:32,360 Speaker 1: I hate that. Yeah, and the one time I wrote 366 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:35,199 Speaker 1: Harry Potter fan fiction, like the only negative things I 367 00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:38,320 Speaker 1: ever got was like, can you please, like, why are 368 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:40,280 Speaker 1: you even including this character? Get rid of her? I 369 00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:44,000 Speaker 1: hate her. So hopefully it is moving away from that 370 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:47,439 Speaker 1: um and certainly there's so much more out there. So 371 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:50,240 Speaker 1: if you have been turned up by that, keep looking, 372 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:53,359 Speaker 1: keep looking. It's out there for you. Our next letter 373 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:57,840 Speaker 1: comes from Kirsten. Kirsten writes, I identify as bisexual because 374 00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:00,359 Speaker 1: that was the first word I heard. Use that sense 375 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:03,159 Speaker 1: for my identity, as many young people do. I started 376 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:06,879 Speaker 1: learning about sexuality via Tumbler and other online forums. I 377 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:09,040 Speaker 1: grew up in the rural Midwest and had an incredibly 378 00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:11,960 Speaker 1: limited queer representation. But I saw the word bi sexual 379 00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:15,160 Speaker 1: online with its definition of attracted the people of multiple genders. 380 00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:18,280 Speaker 1: I was like, oh, yes, that makes sense. At seventeen, 381 00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:21,159 Speaker 1: I was searching for bisexual podcasts and came across the 382 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:24,520 Speaker 1: Sminty episode and it made me feel so seen. I 383 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:27,440 Speaker 1: didn't hear the word pan sexual until much later. I'm 384 00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:30,119 Speaker 1: twenty one now in my first ever relationship, and my 385 00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:33,240 Speaker 1: significant other identifies as non binary. We've never talked about 386 00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:35,399 Speaker 1: the ins and outs of the way I identify, but 387 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:37,640 Speaker 1: I know that they don't think about my identity excludes 388 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:39,960 Speaker 1: their gender in any way. When I started dating my 389 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:43,399 Speaker 1: significant other, I debated using pan sexual more interchangeably with 390 00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:46,600 Speaker 1: my bisexuality, but I still prefer my bi label. I'm 391 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:48,880 Speaker 1: attracted to people of all genders, but the way I'm 392 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:51,840 Speaker 1: attracted to my partner is different from my crushes on boys, 393 00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:54,240 Speaker 1: and those are different from my crushes on girls. They're 394 00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:57,679 Speaker 1: all equal and all important to my identity. But I 395 00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:00,320 Speaker 1: like the way people perform their gender. It just doesn't 396 00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:02,760 Speaker 1: matter what gender it happens to be. It's been so 397 00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:05,280 Speaker 1: great to see more by and PAN representation, and I'm 398 00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:07,400 Speaker 1: so glad you guys talked about it. It will help 399 00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:10,640 Speaker 1: teenagers and grown adults in the by PAN spectrum feel 400 00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:13,760 Speaker 1: seen and have even more room to understand their own identity. 401 00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:15,800 Speaker 1: I'm with you, Bridgett. Every time I think about Jel, 402 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:18,919 Speaker 1: money and dirty Computer, my queer heart beats a little faster. 403 00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:21,760 Speaker 1: This is such a nice letter. I'm so happy that 404 00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:25,480 Speaker 1: folks out there are, you know, exploring their sexualities and 405 00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:28,480 Speaker 1: exploring you know, what it means for them, trying things on, 406 00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:30,840 Speaker 1: deciding you know, hey, I want to keep this label, 407 00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:33,280 Speaker 1: even though this label also seems to fit me. You know, 408 00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:35,560 Speaker 1: I think that we should all be a little bit more, 409 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:38,400 Speaker 1: you know, open and fluid about about these things and 410 00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:41,760 Speaker 1: really find the label or labels. Let speak to us 411 00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:47,040 Speaker 1: and Johnelle Money, how great is she? She's pretty great. 412 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:49,359 Speaker 1: I'm glad that all of that's happening as well, and 413 00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:53,359 Speaker 1: I'm glad that we're having these conversations more often and 414 00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:56,240 Speaker 1: more out in the open, because I can tell you 415 00:22:56,280 --> 00:23:00,200 Speaker 1: I never really heard about pan sexuality or bisexuality when 416 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:05,560 Speaker 1: I was younger, and I would have really appreciated having 417 00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:09,639 Speaker 1: more available to to me to learn about it. Definitely 418 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:13,640 Speaker 1: thanks to both of them for writing in. If you 419 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:15,240 Speaker 1: would like to write to us, we would love to 420 00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:17,520 Speaker 1: hear from you. Our email is mom Stuff at how 421 00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:20,919 Speaker 1: stuff works dot com. You can also find us on 422 00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:23,480 Speaker 1: the social media is we are on Instagram at Stuff 423 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:25,920 Speaker 1: I've Never Told You and on Twitter mom Stuff Podcast, 424 00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:29,280 Speaker 1: And thanks as always to our producer, Kathleen Quilliad.