1 00:00:03,680 --> 00:00:10,080 Speaker 1: I'm TT and I'm Zakiah, and this is Dope Labs. 2 00:00:11,360 --> 00:00:14,600 Speaker 1: Welcome to Dope Labs, a weekly podcast that mixes hardcore 3 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:17,639 Speaker 1: science with pop culture and a healthy dose of friendship. 4 00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:25,720 Speaker 2: If you haven't seen Sinners by now, what have you 5 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:26,239 Speaker 2: been doing? 6 00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:27,360 Speaker 3: What are you waiting for? 7 00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:32,000 Speaker 1: Cause it's really the biggest movie out right now. Honestly, 8 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:34,200 Speaker 1: it's been three weeks at the top of the box 9 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:37,160 Speaker 1: office and has grossed as of May twentieth, of twenty 10 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:42,040 Speaker 1: twenty five, three hundred and eighteen point nine million dollars. 11 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:42,960 Speaker 3: Now listen. 12 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:45,519 Speaker 1: I am a fan of Spooky Season and Centers is 13 00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:48,440 Speaker 1: a horror film, but it's not your typical horror film. 14 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:50,120 Speaker 3: It's done in the most beautiful way. 15 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:53,040 Speaker 1: Absolutely, So I think this is the perfect topic for 16 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:55,840 Speaker 1: today's lab, the science of storytelling. 17 00:00:56,240 --> 00:00:57,880 Speaker 3: Yes, let's jump into the recitation. 18 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:01,320 Speaker 2: Okay, so what do we know? 19 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:02,840 Speaker 3: Well, we know that the. 20 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:06,040 Speaker 1: Response to Centers has been huge. People can't stop talking 21 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:09,760 Speaker 1: about it. I'm seeing podcasts. I saw somebody building a 22 00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:12,400 Speaker 1: whole world of like these characters and what the meaning 23 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:14,640 Speaker 1: was It was just everywhere. 24 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:16,880 Speaker 2: Yes, I had to hurry up and see it. 25 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:19,240 Speaker 1: You saw it before I did, and I had to 26 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:21,320 Speaker 1: run to go see it because as someone who is 27 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:24,480 Speaker 1: chronically online, I knew the spoilers were coming and I 28 00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:27,080 Speaker 1: did not want that spoiled for me. I also know 29 00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:30,440 Speaker 1: that Ryan Coogler, the film's writer and director, was very 30 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:34,640 Speaker 1: intentional about every element in every scene, and I was like, 31 00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:37,600 Speaker 1: we gotta go back, we gotta go Yes, I know 32 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:42,080 Speaker 1: I had to have missed something. I mean, everything was 33 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:45,479 Speaker 1: just so overwhelming visually that I know I missed something 34 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:47,120 Speaker 1: and it was such good storytelling. 35 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:49,440 Speaker 2: So what do we want to know? 36 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 3: Well? 37 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:52,440 Speaker 1: I want to know a little bit more about the 38 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:55,040 Speaker 1: technology used to create it. You know, I've been really 39 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:57,080 Speaker 1: trying to get into my filmmaking. 40 00:01:56,600 --> 00:01:59,320 Speaker 2: That my friend is a director. 41 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:03,280 Speaker 1: Honey, well we're directors together because we have a planetarium 42 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:04,280 Speaker 1: film coming out this fall. 43 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:06,680 Speaker 3: Ooh, don't forget to tell the people. 44 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:12,760 Speaker 1: Okay, and Centers was released in multiple formats, but some 45 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:14,400 Speaker 1: of it was Imax, some of it with Standard and 46 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:16,440 Speaker 1: I was like, Okay, what do all these different things mean? 47 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:17,160 Speaker 2: Right? 48 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:19,680 Speaker 1: I saw that, you know, it was released in Imax 49 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:22,720 Speaker 1: for a limited time, and then once they took it 50 00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:25,639 Speaker 1: out of Imax, people demanded it be put back into Imax. 51 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:28,680 Speaker 1: So then they opened up more dates in the IMAX format. 52 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:29,640 Speaker 3: Yeah wild. 53 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 1: I also want to know more about the symbolism in 54 00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:35,079 Speaker 1: the film. We see religion, we see culture, we see music. 55 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:38,000 Speaker 1: What did I miss? I feel like I had to 56 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:42,200 Speaker 1: have missed something, And I feel like depending on your culture, 57 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:45,720 Speaker 1: your background, you see something different. You know so true 58 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:49,239 Speaker 1: and so for the folks who haven't seen it, even 59 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:52,640 Speaker 1: the people who have, like I want to be able 60 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:55,400 Speaker 1: to bring in some supplemental work to help us understand 61 00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:58,000 Speaker 1: the film more. I think this is a great place 62 00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:05,839 Speaker 1: to start. Let's jump into the dissection. For today's lab, 63 00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:08,480 Speaker 1: we have a friend of the show, doctor Emani Cheers. 64 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:13,120 Speaker 4: My name is Emani Cheers, and I am Isaiah's mom, 65 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 4: Darlene's daughter, and an associate professor of Digital Storytelling at 66 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:19,840 Speaker 4: George Washington University. 67 00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:22,239 Speaker 1: I'm going to give some background for our listeners that 68 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:25,920 Speaker 1: this is a very special guest to me because doctor 69 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:29,280 Speaker 1: Emani Cheers, we grew up in the same neighborhood. She 70 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:31,640 Speaker 1: literally was right across the street from my house. I 71 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 1: grew up admiring her. She was our hometown hero. Everybody 72 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:40,520 Speaker 1: knew Imani, loved Imani, and she accomplished so many things. 73 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:44,240 Speaker 1: She was the first black woman that I ever knew 74 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:48,000 Speaker 1: to have a doctorate, and my parents have always been 75 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:49,520 Speaker 1: so proud of her, and that is part of the 76 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 1: reason why I was like, I want to get a 77 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:53,440 Speaker 1: doctorate too, because she was such a good example to 78 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:56,800 Speaker 1: all of us knuckleheads that was in the neighborhood so Zakia. 79 00:03:56,840 --> 00:03:59,320 Speaker 2: You saw Sinners the first day it came out, right. 80 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:01,520 Speaker 1: I saw it the Sunday. It came out that Friday, 81 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:05,000 Speaker 1: and I saw that Sunday Easter Sunday, Let the Vampires Rise. 82 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:09,160 Speaker 1: And I saw it not long after that, and I 83 00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:11,400 Speaker 1: was very happy that I did, because the spoilers were 84 00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 1: coming in. Sinners is packed with really striking visuals. Like 85 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:18,680 Speaker 1: there were moments during that movie where I was getting 86 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:22,720 Speaker 1: very very emotional just watching it, and I couldn't really 87 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:25,200 Speaker 1: pinpoint why, but it was just like everything was just 88 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:29,080 Speaker 1: so striking. What stood out most to you about how 89 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:32,040 Speaker 1: Ryan Kugler told this story through imagery? 90 00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:34,599 Speaker 4: First of all, I would say that by the time 91 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:37,440 Speaker 4: this is released, if anyone is still a spoiler, you're 92 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:41,560 Speaker 4: just you're just missing out. Because this film, of course, 93 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:43,400 Speaker 4: for so many people who might not be familiar with 94 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:45,920 Speaker 4: his work, I've been following him in particular since Fruitbale 95 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:48,600 Speaker 4: Station Yeah, and his work with Michael B. Jordan, And 96 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:53,360 Speaker 4: so I came into the film already aware that he 97 00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:55,760 Speaker 4: was at his peak. And so many people would say, well, 98 00:04:55,760 --> 00:04:57,840 Speaker 4: wasn't his peak like Black Panther or Black Paper two 99 00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:01,279 Speaker 4: or you know, Creed. But I knew from all of 100 00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:03,040 Speaker 4: the press that they had done that this was going 101 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 4: to be a very special visual and cinematic story, and 102 00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:13,000 Speaker 4: he had been really intentional in the filming process of 103 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 4: using different visual styles and aspect ratios. And so I 104 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 4: hope you two saw it on imax. I did, and 105 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 4: I did not get a chance to see it on 106 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:28,160 Speaker 4: the ultra panavision seventy millimeters IMAX because there's only eight 107 00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:32,520 Speaker 4: theaters in the world wow that have that aspect racial 108 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:36,440 Speaker 4: and so Ryan in all of his press previews was 109 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 4: telling people about this is why we shot it this way, 110 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:40,200 Speaker 4: that way. 111 00:05:40,120 --> 00:05:41,359 Speaker 5: And et cetera. 112 00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:46,719 Speaker 4: And so the intentionality behind his storytelling, the intentionality to 113 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:50,440 Speaker 4: use to first of all, film on film, and I 114 00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:53,000 Speaker 4: don't think many people realize that, but in the digital 115 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:55,000 Speaker 4: age right now, a lot of people just for costs 116 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:59,240 Speaker 4: in particular, they're not filming on film, they're actually filming 117 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:02,400 Speaker 4: in in these different digital formats. 118 00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:05,400 Speaker 5: And so he went as I guess we would call 119 00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:09,599 Speaker 5: old school. And he is a film student. 120 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:14,240 Speaker 4: He's a student of the craft, and so his intentionality 121 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:19,000 Speaker 4: to shoot on on four different aspect ratios and including 122 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:20,000 Speaker 4: also we'll talk visuals. 123 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:21,080 Speaker 5: We also talk about the sound. 124 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:22,479 Speaker 4: We have to talk about the way in which he 125 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 4: incorporated the Dolby sound and all these other elements. And 126 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:28,599 Speaker 4: for those people like myself who were just film nerds, 127 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 4: we just want to go see it in the best 128 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 4: like tell me I want the filmmaker, tell me how 129 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:34,200 Speaker 4: to go enjoy it, Like tell me when I need 130 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:34,920 Speaker 4: what I need to wear? 131 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:37,320 Speaker 5: Do I need to eat first? Do I need to 132 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:38,240 Speaker 5: come fasted? 133 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:42,480 Speaker 4: Because it's about to be a whole revolutionary experience in 134 00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:47,719 Speaker 4: the theater, and Ryan and his team are are the 135 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 4: best to do it. And this film in particular is 136 00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:55,560 Speaker 4: one of the few films that we're seeing now where 137 00:06:55,680 --> 00:07:01,200 Speaker 4: it's the cinematography, it's the filmmaking process that is. 138 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:02,560 Speaker 5: It's just iconic. 139 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:05,800 Speaker 1: When we think about storytelling, and I think, like there 140 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:08,159 Speaker 1: are people talking online like there's too many elements to 141 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:08,720 Speaker 1: this story. 142 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:10,840 Speaker 3: It's gonna be it's gonna. 143 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 1: Be a hodgepodge, And I was like, maybe what you 144 00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:16,000 Speaker 1: like is basic, but I want flavors on my plate. 145 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:18,560 Speaker 1: And so I already knew then that I was gonna 146 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:20,600 Speaker 1: have to go in. It was me and my mom. 147 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:22,280 Speaker 1: I said, we're going if you have to close your 148 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:25,720 Speaker 1: eyes grow squeeze them shut because she doesn't like scary movies. 149 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:27,080 Speaker 3: I was like, but we're going to support. 150 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 1: We were super excited, And what sold me, like you said, 151 00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:32,320 Speaker 1: was when he talked about those aspect ratios. 152 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 3: There was a Kodak click. 153 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:35,680 Speaker 1: Going around on social where he was talking about that, 154 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 1: and I said, Oh, this is somebody who's in their bag. 155 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:42,720 Speaker 1: Like when I see Beyonce rehearsing that, I'm like, Oh, 156 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:46,280 Speaker 1: we really have to we really have to lock in 157 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 1: and be ready for this album. Like so when you 158 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 1: see clips like that, it felt like the equivalent of 159 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 1: that somebody really in their craft. 160 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 6: You shot the film using two different camera systems. One 161 00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:58,800 Speaker 6: proprietary to Panavision is called Ultra Panavision seventy, used on 162 00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 6: films like Like Being Her and most recently The Hateful Eight. 163 00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 6: But another format we use is Imax Imax film cameras. 164 00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:11,120 Speaker 6: Those cameras spin the film in a horizontal fashion, and 165 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:13,600 Speaker 6: they spent it using fifteen perse per front. 166 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:18,200 Speaker 1: Now I got there and I felt like, I know, 167 00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:20,320 Speaker 1: I said, I could have all those flavors, but there 168 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:23,760 Speaker 1: were new When I think about my brain taste buds, 169 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 1: there were new taste buds being activated. There were so 170 00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:29,360 Speaker 1: many symbols and visual motifs and things that reminded me 171 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:32,160 Speaker 1: of growing up in the South and like just stuff 172 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:35,160 Speaker 1: that like even him when they talked about a Wooden Nickel, 173 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:37,040 Speaker 1: it's just I could hear my grandma saying, don't let 174 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:38,640 Speaker 1: nobody tell you a Wooden Nickel. And I was like, 175 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:41,080 Speaker 1: I felt like I was being transported to my real 176 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:43,600 Speaker 1: life in the back of my head to the story 177 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:46,000 Speaker 1: they were telling. And I'm curious about some of those 178 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:49,760 Speaker 1: symbols and sometimes symbolism and language. What messages do you 179 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:53,520 Speaker 1: think Ryan Coogler was trying to convey with the storytelling here, 180 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:55,959 Speaker 1: Oh is a kid. 181 00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 4: That's so good because one of the things that I 182 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:02,640 Speaker 4: don't know if many people, your audience and others are 183 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:07,400 Speaker 4: aware that Ryan is truly a multifaceted creative, So he's 184 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:10,040 Speaker 4: not just a director, but he's also the writer, and 185 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:14,040 Speaker 4: he writes. He wrote Fruit Bale Station, he wrote Black Panther, 186 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:18,760 Speaker 4: he wrote Creed, he wrote Centers, and he only directs 187 00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:22,920 Speaker 4: projects stories that he writes. A lot of times we 188 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:26,240 Speaker 4: can even go back to someone like a Spike Lee, 189 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:31,920 Speaker 4: who also was you know, kind of really was at 190 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:37,720 Speaker 4: the forefront of directors being these multi creatives in this space. 191 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:39,640 Speaker 5: I think Tyler Perry takes it. 192 00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:41,920 Speaker 4: Too far, but we're not talking about that today, because 193 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:46,640 Speaker 4: it's important to have multiple voices in your creative like room, 194 00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:50,719 Speaker 4: and Ryan does that really, really well. And so whenever 195 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:55,040 Speaker 4: he dives into a script, he's going to do all 196 00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:59,960 Speaker 4: of the references and research required to make sure that 197 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:00,800 Speaker 4: it's authentic. 198 00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:02,199 Speaker 5: And this is everything. 199 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:04,360 Speaker 4: And so when people which I do encourage to go 200 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 4: back and watch some of his earlier works, all of 201 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:11,599 Speaker 4: them with Michael B. Jordan, which I also love that relationship. 202 00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:17,120 Speaker 4: They're definitely a craftsman and their muse, their brothers, their 203 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:23,880 Speaker 4: creative collaborators in all of these works. But visually, Ryan 204 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:27,040 Speaker 4: wanted to bring a I like to look at it 205 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:30,959 Speaker 4: kind of like a big pot of gumbo mm. And there's, 206 00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:34,200 Speaker 4: as you mentioned, sort of like these brain these visual 207 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:37,120 Speaker 4: taste buds. So we are not only going to get 208 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:40,920 Speaker 4: the stunning visuals from the cinematography and the choices again 209 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:45,079 Speaker 4: to shoot on ultra panavisions, seventy millimeter Imax, all these 210 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:49,120 Speaker 4: other things, but the film draws these visual inspiration from 211 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:53,800 Speaker 4: you might have seen and for people like myself who 212 00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:58,520 Speaker 4: who grew up watching shows like Good Times, Ernie Barnes, 213 00:10:58,559 --> 00:11:02,720 Speaker 4: the Sugarshack, and it's a painting yes, yes, and the 214 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:09,280 Speaker 4: elements in centers, in particular when it's spun all around music. 215 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:11,280 Speaker 1: That's such a great point and I feel like there's 216 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:12,960 Speaker 1: a lot of motifs. 217 00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:15,600 Speaker 2: Is that the right word throughout the film? 218 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:19,760 Speaker 1: Can you talk about some of those through lines that 219 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:20,840 Speaker 1: you see throughout? 220 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:21,360 Speaker 5: Right? 221 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:24,600 Speaker 4: Music is a through line throughout, Religion is a through 222 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:28,400 Speaker 4: line throughout. Then we also obviously have I call this 223 00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:30,960 Speaker 4: historical horror, so I know, like your mom might have 224 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:32,960 Speaker 4: been framed. People are like, why don't really do horror films? 225 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:35,040 Speaker 4: And I was like, well, it's historical horror. People are like, 226 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:37,280 Speaker 4: well what is historical horror? And I was like, oh, well, 227 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:39,160 Speaker 4: did you ever see? And then I start with listening, 228 00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:42,200 Speaker 4: you know, I was like, did you ever see The Watchmen, 229 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:44,839 Speaker 4: for example, Or did you ever watch with Regina King 230 00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:46,800 Speaker 4: that was on HBO Unfortunately on it got one season? 231 00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:51,199 Speaker 4: Or did you ever see the television Underground? Yeah, Misha 232 00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:53,480 Speaker 4: Green directed Underground. So like, when you really look at 233 00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:56,839 Speaker 4: these contexts or these stories have historical accuracies, right, that's 234 00:11:56,840 --> 00:11:59,560 Speaker 4: what are called historical horror, They have historical accuracies. 235 00:11:59,640 --> 00:11:59,840 Speaker 2: Right. 236 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:02,560 Speaker 4: There was a moment we had a conversation in in 237 00:12:02,679 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 4: centers about the klu Klux Klan. 238 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:04,600 Speaker 3: Right. 239 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:06,640 Speaker 4: There were all of these different elements. There were these 240 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:10,400 Speaker 4: conversations that talked about the different Asian communities within the 241 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:13,440 Speaker 4: Mississippi Delta, and people were like, wait a minute, how 242 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:15,560 Speaker 4: are you going to have shop owners who like own 243 00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:18,640 Speaker 4: businesses across the street and like understanding segregation and why 244 00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:21,200 Speaker 4: that was super important. So all of these visuals, but 245 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:23,800 Speaker 4: they came together in this melting pot, and the best 246 00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:25,640 Speaker 4: way I can describe that is like a big pot 247 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:30,040 Speaker 4: of gumbo. There's all of these elements there that really 248 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:34,320 Speaker 4: bring about this beautiful story about these two twin brothers 249 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:39,040 Speaker 4: who are coming back to their hometown after spending a 250 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:43,200 Speaker 4: considerable amount of time in the North in Chicago, working 251 00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:48,439 Speaker 4: learning from we'll just say different communities, and they've then 252 00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:52,360 Speaker 4: decided to bring that back home and open up a 253 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:55,520 Speaker 4: juke jump and the film is based on and the 254 00:12:55,559 --> 00:12:57,920 Speaker 4: story kind of starts from smoke and Stack coming back 255 00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:02,680 Speaker 4: home and buying this bill on this property and then 256 00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:05,760 Speaker 4: opening up for one night spoiler alert or not for 257 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:08,760 Speaker 4: one night only, and then everything ensues. 258 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:27,040 Speaker 1: Can we take a small step back before we move 259 00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:29,640 Speaker 1: forward and just explain to some folks, because I feel 260 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:32,640 Speaker 1: like some of the terminology some people don't understand in media. 261 00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:37,040 Speaker 1: What you know a writer, a director, a producer, a DP, like, 262 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:39,080 Speaker 1: who are these people and what their roles are? Can 263 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:41,439 Speaker 1: you go through a few of the ones that are 264 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:44,240 Speaker 1: important when creating something like this? 265 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:45,200 Speaker 3: Oh? 266 00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:47,520 Speaker 4: Absolutely, And so it's really important when we think of 267 00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:50,439 Speaker 4: any kind of creative project, right, So most of us 268 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:54,120 Speaker 4: are engaged with television, film, video, etc. And what you 269 00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:57,439 Speaker 4: see what comes kind of in this final package. You 270 00:13:57,520 --> 00:14:01,199 Speaker 4: would have no idea that in many instances anywhere between 271 00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:07,040 Speaker 4: five to fifty people contributed to what we are watching. 272 00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:10,480 Speaker 4: Starting even from the top. You're gonna have your executive producers, right, 273 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:13,840 Speaker 4: You're gonna have people that are really responsible in particular 274 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:17,040 Speaker 4: for finding funding and financing right, and those are the 275 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:19,240 Speaker 4: ones who are going to make sure that not only 276 00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:23,240 Speaker 4: there are the resources to hire and pay everyone, but 277 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:26,720 Speaker 4: also to contribute to post production all these other elements. 278 00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:28,680 Speaker 4: So you have your EPs, and then you have a 279 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:30,920 Speaker 4: number of other producers. They deal with logistics. So when 280 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:34,080 Speaker 4: you're thinking of who's gonna staff this project, who's gonna 281 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:36,240 Speaker 4: fill out the call sheet? What, you're gonna have your 282 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:38,840 Speaker 4: director someone who comes and in particular, the best way 283 00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:41,120 Speaker 4: to describe them is they control the film's artistic and 284 00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:45,440 Speaker 4: dramatic vision. They visualize the screenplay. So you have the 285 00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:49,040 Speaker 4: writers who write the story and many times and fortunately 286 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:51,280 Speaker 4: if it's a if it's a really strong writing room, 287 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:54,280 Speaker 4: we're gonna have multiple voices in there coming together. Writing 288 00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:57,200 Speaker 4: room tim to be anywhere between. Again, one not so 289 00:14:57,280 --> 00:15:02,000 Speaker 4: great to like ten people engaged in telling the story, 290 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:05,120 Speaker 4: but for films you would have one, maybe two writers. 291 00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:07,080 Speaker 4: And Ryan writes all of his work, right, so he's 292 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:09,400 Speaker 4: going to be the person writing the script, creating all 293 00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:12,360 Speaker 4: of the different characters, doing a lot of the historical 294 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:15,000 Speaker 4: references and research and making sure everything that is accurate 295 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:18,000 Speaker 4: as he wants. And then he's also the person that 296 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:20,280 Speaker 4: brings that creative vision to the film. And then you 297 00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:22,120 Speaker 4: have one of my favorite roles, which is the director 298 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:25,000 Speaker 4: of photographer also known as the DP, also known as 299 00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:28,840 Speaker 4: a cinematographer, and they were over responsible for overseeing all 300 00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:31,560 Speaker 4: the aspects of the camera work and that includes also 301 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:33,920 Speaker 4: some lighting. But they'll have a team which you call 302 00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:36,360 Speaker 4: your grips and your gaffers, and those are individuals that 303 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:37,920 Speaker 4: are going to be making sure that all the lighting 304 00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:41,960 Speaker 4: and in centers. That was really important the lighting techniques 305 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:44,120 Speaker 4: that they use. Again because the majority of the film 306 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:47,640 Speaker 4: was actually was filmed quote unquote at night right like 307 00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:51,040 Speaker 4: again no spoiler alert, but it takes place really from 308 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:54,120 Speaker 4: dust till dawn. That's the bulk of the story, and 309 00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:58,440 Speaker 4: so filming in dark light and all these spaces. 310 00:15:57,560 --> 00:15:58,560 Speaker 5: Really really important. 311 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:02,680 Speaker 4: Camera operator, you're gonna assist directors at getting their location managers. 312 00:16:02,760 --> 00:16:05,720 Speaker 4: Your first AD one of the most essential positions on 313 00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:09,200 Speaker 4: the crew. They track the daily progress of the filming schedule. 314 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:13,240 Speaker 4: They prepare call sheets. Your second AD assistant director. They're 315 00:16:13,280 --> 00:16:15,360 Speaker 4: going to help because Centers also had a large they 316 00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:17,640 Speaker 4: had a large cast. Yeah, so your second AD is 317 00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:20,000 Speaker 4: really going to be a person helping to control and 318 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:22,120 Speaker 4: help to make sure people know where they're supposed to 319 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:24,880 Speaker 4: be when they're supposed to be Art directors. And then 320 00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:27,560 Speaker 4: of course one of my favorite also the costume designers. Yeah, 321 00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:29,760 Speaker 4: so Ruth got to give a shout out to Ruth Carter. 322 00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:32,000 Speaker 4: If you don't know her, she's also iconic. She works 323 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:36,160 Speaker 4: with Ryan pretty I won't say exclusively, but she is 324 00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:39,560 Speaker 4: also one of his creative muses and they come together 325 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:43,240 Speaker 4: and they create everything again, from Black Panther all the 326 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:46,040 Speaker 4: way all the way up through Centers. Having that historical 327 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:48,560 Speaker 4: accuracy is there so lots of different roles, but though 328 00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:51,400 Speaker 4: we're probably the main essential ones, I. 329 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:54,400 Speaker 1: Think in a lot of ways in the storytelling, Centers 330 00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:57,000 Speaker 1: did some things differently. So you've mentioned it being a 331 00:16:57,160 --> 00:17:00,240 Speaker 1: historical horror, and when I think about historical horror, think 332 00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:02,600 Speaker 1: about like Django Unchain, even though it's not technically a 333 00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:04,600 Speaker 1: horror movie, but I think about. 334 00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:05,119 Speaker 3: Pieces like that. 335 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:07,600 Speaker 1: I think about Rosewood, which was probably drama, it still 336 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:09,879 Speaker 1: felt like horror to me, and that was based on 337 00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 1: a true story, Yes, based on a true story. And 338 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:16,160 Speaker 1: so I think I consider these things and how these 339 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:19,440 Speaker 1: communities are represented. Now, what I was excited to see 340 00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:22,560 Speaker 1: is typically there's this saying that in or trope that 341 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:24,520 Speaker 1: like in horror movies, black people are going to they 342 00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:27,120 Speaker 1: kill the black people off. First, we didn't have that 343 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:31,760 Speaker 1: in Centers, but we did see I felt like some 344 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:35,560 Speaker 1: women sacrificing themselves or being sacrificed. And there is a 345 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:39,160 Speaker 1: critic that I follow Brooke Obie and she graduated from Hampton. 346 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:40,600 Speaker 1: I know her, she was in the same class as me. 347 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:44,800 Speaker 1: And Brooke has talked about the representation of women, particularly 348 00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:46,919 Speaker 1: how Annie showed up in the movie and how she 349 00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:50,280 Speaker 1: protected Smoke but not herself. You have a book that's 350 00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:54,159 Speaker 1: the Evolution of Black Women in Television Mammys, Matriarchs and Mistresses, 351 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:57,280 Speaker 1: and you explore how Black women have been represented in 352 00:17:57,280 --> 00:18:00,000 Speaker 1: television over time. And I'm thinking about how we see 353 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:03,119 Speaker 1: Annie being represented. I'm curious about how you feel is 354 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:06,840 Speaker 1: Sinners pushing the envelope for Black women characters. 355 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:11,120 Speaker 4: That is such a great question and it's so important 356 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:14,080 Speaker 4: because I for many people who might not even know 357 00:18:14,119 --> 00:18:17,720 Speaker 4: who the actresses are who play Annie and Pearlene, and 358 00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:22,840 Speaker 4: so Wenumi Musoka, who is an absolute icon in her 359 00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:26,800 Speaker 4: own right, Jamie Lawson plays Pearline, and so these two 360 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:30,240 Speaker 4: women set up as yes, love interests and kind of 361 00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:36,080 Speaker 4: juxtaposed to one another. But I actually I love Annie's character. 362 00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:40,400 Speaker 4: I love everything about her. I love her her use 363 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:43,760 Speaker 4: of which again was the historical references, but her use 364 00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:49,919 Speaker 4: of African and Creole spirituality. I will not use the 365 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:54,120 Speaker 4: term witchcraft because it's not accurate. It is spirituality. And 366 00:18:54,160 --> 00:19:00,280 Speaker 4: we see the necklace, the pouch that she gave him, 367 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:04,280 Speaker 4: Michael B. Jordan, and how when he asked her, you 368 00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:06,480 Speaker 4: can do all this all year, he calls it magic, 369 00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:08,080 Speaker 4: all of your magic. 370 00:19:08,119 --> 00:19:09,439 Speaker 5: Why couldn't you save our baby? 371 00:19:10,359 --> 00:19:15,920 Speaker 4: And she tells him in this really tender, beautiful moment, 372 00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:18,359 Speaker 4: not only like I wasn't supposed to. 373 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:19,880 Speaker 5: I couldn't. It wasn't time. 374 00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:22,600 Speaker 4: And then sort of fast forward to at a certain 375 00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:26,520 Speaker 4: scene in the film where you literally see the power 376 00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:29,720 Speaker 4: of that pouch in a moment where he's about to 377 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:33,240 Speaker 4: be he's about to he's getting attacked and you don't 378 00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:35,320 Speaker 4: know is he going to be killed, and you see. 379 00:19:35,359 --> 00:19:37,520 Speaker 5: It reverberates off of his body. 380 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:40,399 Speaker 4: And I thought that was such a beautiful way to 381 00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:44,560 Speaker 4: have again these larger conversations around the power of women 382 00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:49,680 Speaker 4: and the power of women as spiritual in the spiritual 383 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:56,480 Speaker 4: and physical realm, and I thought Annie's character played that 384 00:19:57,480 --> 00:20:01,040 Speaker 4: balance so unbelievably well. 385 00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:03,560 Speaker 5: She was more in tune. 386 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:07,560 Speaker 4: She understood elements in the film, in the storyline in 387 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:10,440 Speaker 4: particular as it related to vampires of what to do, 388 00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:13,400 Speaker 4: she had an under she just had a further understanding 389 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:17,359 Speaker 4: because of her spiritual acumen that she was able to 390 00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:21,240 Speaker 4: identify things and different sort of storylines in the film, 391 00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:23,640 Speaker 4: which I thought was just really really powerful in terms 392 00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:29,840 Speaker 4: of representation, just having Annie's character and Mary's character be 393 00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:34,080 Speaker 4: sort of also juxtaposed and Haley Sandfield who plays Mary, 394 00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:36,200 Speaker 4: and so one of the things I also love about 395 00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:39,320 Speaker 4: Ryan and all of his casting is that he very 396 00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:43,720 Speaker 4: intentionally puts black actors and actresses, in particular actresses and 397 00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:47,359 Speaker 4: dark skinned black actresses at the forefront end in major 398 00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:49,159 Speaker 4: roles in a way that you just don't see in 399 00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:51,520 Speaker 4: other places. So that's where I feel like the representation 400 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:54,560 Speaker 4: of black women and in particular, very specifically in Ryan 401 00:20:54,600 --> 00:21:00,400 Speaker 4: Cooliger's work defies stereotypes. He is intentional about who he cast, 402 00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:03,360 Speaker 4: He's intentional about the roles and connections. I could even 403 00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:06,520 Speaker 4: go back to Lo Pizza Yango in Black Panther, right 404 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:10,680 Speaker 4: the intentionality to have this gorgeous, beautiful, quote unquote, dark 405 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:15,400 Speaker 4: skinned black woman playing the objects of love, playing love interests. 406 00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:19,040 Speaker 4: They're not just the buddy best friend. These are women 407 00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:22,760 Speaker 4: to be desired and to be loved and to be 408 00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:26,600 Speaker 4: cherished and to be protected in a way that we 409 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:30,919 Speaker 4: don't often see in other stories. And Ryan is intentional 410 00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:33,040 Speaker 4: about that. And I believe that also comes from Ryan 411 00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:35,160 Speaker 4: being married to a black woman. There are so many 412 00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:37,800 Speaker 4: other things that come out in his personal life that 413 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:42,439 Speaker 4: I feel comes in his artistry, in his ability to 414 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:46,719 Speaker 4: write roles that ultimately want to protect black women, and 415 00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:53,480 Speaker 4: so I personally am always so pleasantly surprised to see 416 00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:58,440 Speaker 4: what he's going to bring into the visual and representation 417 00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:00,359 Speaker 4: conversation as a relatable women. 418 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:07,359 Speaker 1: I love that point because Hailey Steinfeld's character and Annie's character, 419 00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:09,640 Speaker 1: I feel like in another movie it would have been 420 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:13,240 Speaker 1: switched absolutely. In the movie She's meant to be white passing, 421 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:16,960 Speaker 1: she would have been the oh my goodness, this is 422 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:20,280 Speaker 1: the darling, this is the woman that you know is 423 00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:22,640 Speaker 1: holding you down that and then they would have then 424 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:24,920 Speaker 1: a darker skinned black woman might have been the one 425 00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:27,359 Speaker 1: that was kind of like on the evil side, you 426 00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:29,320 Speaker 1: know what I mean. So it was so beautiful to 427 00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:32,520 Speaker 1: see and you talking us through that. It really shows 428 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:35,680 Speaker 1: that it's an intentional thing from Ryan Coogler's point of view, 429 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:40,000 Speaker 1: and such a powerful message to sin and just even 430 00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:45,080 Speaker 1: including their body types. Absolutely like the desirability of a 431 00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:48,200 Speaker 1: woman that is plus sized. 432 00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:51,280 Speaker 5: US size, sexual desirable. 433 00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:54,520 Speaker 4: And that's the part that hit me so frequently, because 434 00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:56,879 Speaker 4: when you talk about someone like a Michael B. Jordan 435 00:22:57,000 --> 00:22:59,320 Speaker 4: just as a character, we've all seen him. I remember 436 00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:02,439 Speaker 4: him on the wire like I've watched his career for 437 00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:05,280 Speaker 4: over twenty years, and so to see the evolution of 438 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:07,720 Speaker 4: him also to see the characters and the roles in 439 00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:09,560 Speaker 4: which he chooses, because now he's at the point he 440 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:12,359 Speaker 4: gets to choose, of course, and when he works with Ryan, 441 00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:15,360 Speaker 4: I believe that they bring the best out of each 442 00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:21,360 Speaker 4: other in a way that only these types of directing, acting, 443 00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:27,760 Speaker 4: inventing characters, developing storylines, finding the depth in the richness 444 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:35,040 Speaker 4: and so Ryan's way of again representing black women and 445 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:37,200 Speaker 4: whether they be mothers. I can go back to Creed 446 00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:39,560 Speaker 4: with Felicia Rashad, that's one of my other favorite Like 447 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:43,800 Speaker 4: I love her roles and to even Tessa Thompson and 448 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:46,680 Speaker 4: some other even like her, the intentionality of her being 449 00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:48,760 Speaker 4: hearing impaired, and then when they have their daughter, and 450 00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:51,280 Speaker 4: then her being hearing right, and so all of these 451 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:57,040 Speaker 4: little nuances, This inclusion of the depth of the diversity 452 00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:00,879 Speaker 4: in a time in which it's honestly under it is 453 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:05,639 Speaker 4: really refreshing to see in these creative spaces. So I 454 00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:07,439 Speaker 4: think this is really important right when we see these 455 00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:10,040 Speaker 4: these roles in these characters. And I will just say 456 00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:13,080 Speaker 4: very very quickly, because I think it's super important. Autumn 457 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:18,399 Speaker 4: Gerald is a cinematographer for Sinners, and she is a powerhouse, 458 00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:20,120 Speaker 4: but it's also historic for her to be a woman, 459 00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:25,360 Speaker 4: a woman of color, to film on this seventy millimeter imax. 460 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:27,960 Speaker 4: I mean we're talking it's heavy, Like I don't know 461 00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:29,720 Speaker 4: if you all, if your audience or if you all 462 00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:32,359 Speaker 4: have visual like we're talking, you know this like picking 463 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:34,680 Speaker 4: up and holding as you're filming, and of course there's 464 00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:36,920 Speaker 4: all these different mounts and things. But I mean, you're 465 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:39,840 Speaker 4: talking a couple hundred pounds. This is not light work 466 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:43,520 Speaker 4: by any means what she was able to do. Autumn, 467 00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:46,800 Speaker 4: and she's worked with Ryan before, but she's just She's 468 00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:49,360 Speaker 4: also got to give that props to Ryan intentionally, again, 469 00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:52,280 Speaker 4: having a woman of color be the cinematographer, that's intentional. 470 00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:08,679 Speaker 1: I want to go back to what you were saying about, 471 00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:10,320 Speaker 1: like historical horror. 472 00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:14,480 Speaker 2: I think that horror films that. 473 00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:20,480 Speaker 1: Use the plight of black folks, how the black existence 474 00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:23,359 Speaker 1: can be somewhat of a horror film. I mean, we 475 00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:26,879 Speaker 1: saw that with get Out, we see that with Sinners. 476 00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:32,560 Speaker 1: Can you talk about how Sinners is contributing to how 477 00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:36,840 Speaker 1: black history is being told? And like, twenty years from now, 478 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:39,320 Speaker 1: forty years from now, fifty years from now, how do 479 00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:41,840 Speaker 1: you think that this will stand the test of time 480 00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:44,119 Speaker 1: and how do you think people will feel about it 481 00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:44,760 Speaker 1: in the future. 482 00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:46,920 Speaker 5: Oh, that's so good. 483 00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:48,720 Speaker 4: Well, one, I think we should point out that in 484 00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:52,720 Speaker 4: twenty five years Ryan owns this film and that is 485 00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:54,840 Speaker 4: huge and people are like, well, why is this even 486 00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:56,960 Speaker 4: a big deal? It's a big deal because that's not 487 00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:00,240 Speaker 4: what normally happens. Ryan is not the first director to 488 00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:02,719 Speaker 4: be able to own his films outright, and that he 489 00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:05,359 Speaker 4: isn't the first director to get some of what he deserved. 490 00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:07,440 Speaker 4: I won't even say required, but like he deserved a 491 00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:09,119 Speaker 4: number of a perks. 492 00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:10,680 Speaker 5: He's over a billion. 493 00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:13,720 Speaker 4: Dollars at the box office in his career, and so 494 00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:16,760 Speaker 4: quite frankly, he should be able to get what he wants. 495 00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:18,840 Speaker 4: And he wanted to own this film in twenty five years, 496 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:20,640 Speaker 4: and I think that's really really important, and he talks 497 00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:23,959 Speaker 4: about that quite openly, and the reason for because this 498 00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:27,960 Speaker 4: film is so personal to him because of the historical reference. 499 00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:31,760 Speaker 4: It is set in a time that I think most 500 00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:37,080 Speaker 4: audiences should or couldn't understand. But we're talking during some 501 00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:39,320 Speaker 4: of the most brutal times for black people in the 502 00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:43,480 Speaker 4: South and during the reconstruction period. And so this isn't 503 00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:46,879 Speaker 4: to give your audience any sort of like American history lesson, 504 00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:49,560 Speaker 4: but I think it is important to note that sort 505 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:54,200 Speaker 4: of after the Civil War, where the US government gave 506 00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:58,960 Speaker 4: reparations to white slave owners, that's also like fact check 507 00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:02,120 Speaker 4: that everyone, because that's that's a fact, gave them reparations, 508 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:07,320 Speaker 4: and then black folks had to not only make away, 509 00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:09,159 Speaker 4: they never got the forty acres and a mule that 510 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:15,840 Speaker 4: were promised, and they really had to build communities from nothing. 511 00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:19,320 Speaker 4: They had to build communities. And when I say communities, 512 00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:21,920 Speaker 4: that truly mean they had to build schools, They had 513 00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:25,000 Speaker 4: to build churches, houses of worship, They had to build 514 00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:28,520 Speaker 4: all of the elements, whether it be a post office, 515 00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:30,760 Speaker 4: the dentist, a doctor's office. Because we're in the time 516 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:33,760 Speaker 4: of deep segregation. So all though black people in the 517 00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:36,360 Speaker 4: US at the time were quote unquote not they were 518 00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:38,840 Speaker 4: no longer enslaved, they by no means were free. 519 00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:40,160 Speaker 5: And there were all of. 520 00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:43,560 Speaker 4: These policies, all of these laws that restricted what black 521 00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:47,120 Speaker 4: people could own, where they could go physically like movement 522 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:49,600 Speaker 4: as they can move around. And so this film is 523 00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:51,840 Speaker 4: set in a time and in a part of this 524 00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:56,080 Speaker 4: country that was some of the most hostile to black people. 525 00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:59,640 Speaker 4: So that's partially when you see Michael B. Jordan as 526 00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:02,840 Speaker 4: small can stack. These twins who are coming back with 527 00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:07,840 Speaker 4: money with they had risen out of a certain we'll 528 00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:11,080 Speaker 4: just say socioeconomic class at the time, and to do 529 00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:13,040 Speaker 4: that they had to go north. Yeah, they couldn't do 530 00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:15,960 Speaker 4: that unfortunately in their home community and their home state 531 00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:19,080 Speaker 4: of Mississippi. They had to go up north, and they 532 00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:22,320 Speaker 4: were successful and said endeavors and then they came back home. 533 00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:25,040 Speaker 4: But their reference and why I think this movie is 534 00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:28,600 Speaker 4: going to be timeless is because Ryan as a student 535 00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:32,200 Speaker 4: of history and a student of accuracy as a filmmaker, 536 00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:37,520 Speaker 4: intentionally made it so that this is not a Disney movie, 537 00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:39,680 Speaker 4: Like this is not a movie where where we get 538 00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:42,600 Speaker 4: to play in fantasy and dare I say. 539 00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:43,640 Speaker 5: Make believe and all these things. 540 00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:47,760 Speaker 4: People are like, well, obviously vampires are not real, and yes, 541 00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:50,440 Speaker 4: but there is a symbolism too with the vampires and 542 00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:52,280 Speaker 4: what they wanted to do, right, and so there's all 543 00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:54,280 Speaker 4: of these sort of larger conversations, but in terms of 544 00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:59,680 Speaker 4: its historical relevance, it's so unbelievable, like it's just accurate, 545 00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:03,880 Speaker 4: and even down to the way in which the characters, 546 00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:06,360 Speaker 4: whether it be their accents. People were so shocked where 547 00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:08,120 Speaker 4: they were like, wait a second, why are the Asian 548 00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:12,720 Speaker 4: actually white? They all have like these deep Southern accents, 549 00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:15,120 Speaker 4: and like it's true, and who were the business owners 550 00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:17,400 Speaker 4: and the fact that they showed that scene where they 551 00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:20,360 Speaker 4: showed that Dolly where you know, the daughter walks across 552 00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:22,760 Speaker 4: the street to the other store to tell the mom, hey, 553 00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:23,800 Speaker 4: so and so it's back. 554 00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:24,640 Speaker 5: They want you to do. 555 00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:26,680 Speaker 4: X, Y and Z right and so and they're across 556 00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:28,880 Speaker 4: the street and it's because black people had to say 557 00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:30,800 Speaker 4: on one side of the street. White people don't say 558 00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:34,200 Speaker 4: other and the understanding of segregation and how it impacted 559 00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:38,040 Speaker 4: and why when Mary even came over, everybody was like, 560 00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:40,280 Speaker 4: who is this, Like, you ain't supposed to be here. 561 00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:43,280 Speaker 5: You're gonna get us in trouble. In trouble, you were 562 00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:45,200 Speaker 5: going to bring the clan. 563 00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:47,840 Speaker 4: I think it's really important the way, and I was 564 00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:49,840 Speaker 4: hoping for them to come back around. 565 00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:51,600 Speaker 5: But the chick Taw, we can't stop. 566 00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:53,720 Speaker 4: We have to talk about the Native American and that 567 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:55,880 Speaker 4: reference in the very beginning, and if you missed it, 568 00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:56,640 Speaker 4: I'm sorry for you. 569 00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:57,880 Speaker 5: Please go back and watch it again. 570 00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:01,600 Speaker 4: But the reference and and that understanding and how the 571 00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:04,000 Speaker 4: Chicktaw when they came in at the very beginning, and 572 00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:07,080 Speaker 4: they were literally they were trying to save the couple, 573 00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:09,680 Speaker 4: the white couple from the vampire. They're like, hey, we 574 00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:11,680 Speaker 4: know somebody just rolled up to your house. That is 575 00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:12,880 Speaker 4: not who you think he is. 576 00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:13,840 Speaker 5: Let me you know. 577 00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:16,040 Speaker 4: But then again, I'm gonna let you have that, right. 578 00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:19,360 Speaker 4: He was like, okay, I tried, and then they dipped right. 579 00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:21,080 Speaker 4: They were like, the sun is going down and we 580 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:22,480 Speaker 4: have to keep moving right. 581 00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:25,800 Speaker 1: Ryan Coogler's use of the Choctaw tribe was so intentional, 582 00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:27,680 Speaker 1: and Zaki and I have been reading a lot of 583 00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:31,080 Speaker 1: thing pieces and analysis on that particular scene, and we 584 00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:33,480 Speaker 1: found some interesting things. One, the chalk Taw people have 585 00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:36,920 Speaker 1: a strong history with music to tell stories, and so 586 00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:40,120 Speaker 1: it's possible that Remick Remick is the vampire in the 587 00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:44,600 Speaker 1: movie that is also Irish, that Remick was drawn to 588 00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:47,600 Speaker 1: the chalk Taw people because of that, yes, But then 589 00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:50,560 Speaker 1: also the Choctaw tribe has a unique history with Irish people, 590 00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:53,480 Speaker 1: where way back in the day, back at eighteen forty seven, 591 00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:57,719 Speaker 1: they sent one hundred and seventy dollars to Ireland, so 592 00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:00,600 Speaker 1: that was that's about five thousand dollars today to help 593 00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:05,400 Speaker 1: starving families during the Great Potato Famine in Ireland. So 594 00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:08,959 Speaker 1: it feels like all of these things are meant to 595 00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:12,600 Speaker 1: be a backdrop to that scene. So maybe Remick was 596 00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:16,720 Speaker 1: drawn to the music and because of their spirituality and 597 00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:19,160 Speaker 1: their strong like Annie like how we were saying, Annie 598 00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:21,640 Speaker 1: has strong spirituality, so she was able to see that 599 00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:24,360 Speaker 1: they were vampires. Maybe that's what happened, and so they 600 00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:26,800 Speaker 1: were able to drive them out, tell them get out 601 00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:28,920 Speaker 1: of here, and knew okay, the sun's going down. 602 00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:30,920 Speaker 2: We got to get out of here. Good luck to y'all. 603 00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:35,360 Speaker 1: So good that give it to me in reverse. I'm 604 00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:37,040 Speaker 1: ready for the prequel. I'm ready for the preson. 605 00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:38,680 Speaker 2: We need a prequel. 606 00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:42,000 Speaker 1: There's no shortage of material, there's no shortage of story 607 00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:44,760 Speaker 1: in all these things that were shared. And you know, 608 00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:47,200 Speaker 1: one of the things, I think you gave us a 609 00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:49,680 Speaker 1: little history lesson. But I think for people who are 610 00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:53,080 Speaker 1: not steeped in Black American history, who don't have that experience, 611 00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:56,240 Speaker 1: who don't have that as part of their culture, right 612 00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:59,960 Speaker 1: there are layers to this film that you are missing. 613 00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:02,920 Speaker 1: Same thing if you are not trained in. 614 00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:04,040 Speaker 3: Some visual literacy. 615 00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:06,320 Speaker 1: For some of the long lines, you know, like I 616 00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:09,080 Speaker 1: think you said, like the Dolly's shot across connecting but 617 00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:11,600 Speaker 1: also showing the difference. I saw a lot of people 618 00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:15,080 Speaker 1: talking about just how some of the scenes were framed. 619 00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:19,200 Speaker 1: What do you think or what do you recommend people consume, 620 00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:25,320 Speaker 1: whether it's reading, listening, watching, to help them evaluate centers 621 00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:29,440 Speaker 1: more critically and closely, or to expand their horizon their 622 00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:30,400 Speaker 1: storytelling world. 623 00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:33,480 Speaker 4: What I will say is is a really beautiful time 624 00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:38,760 Speaker 4: right now, and just film and cultural studies, but in 625 00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:42,320 Speaker 4: particular and very specifically of course black film and cultural studies. 626 00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:48,400 Speaker 4: There are so many amazing authors out there who are 627 00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:53,200 Speaker 4: writing and sharing, and so if you're just like, okay, 628 00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:57,760 Speaker 4: I am really interested in any of these elements in 629 00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:00,440 Speaker 4: any of this work. My Sister the Serial is one 630 00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:04,720 Speaker 4: of my favorite books on Braithway. I love that book 631 00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:09,080 Speaker 4: for everything that it teaches and shares with us about horror. 632 00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:12,840 Speaker 4: I think it's also really interesting because, as I said, 633 00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:16,920 Speaker 4: I really appreciate and this is television, so it's not 634 00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:21,240 Speaker 4: necessarily film, but The Watchman does a really phenomenal job. 635 00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:23,920 Speaker 4: And one of the shows that I wish would have 636 00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:29,280 Speaker 4: had more time to really explore and galvanize my the 637 00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:32,960 Speaker 4: ones love Craft Country for those who might remember Lovecraft 638 00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:36,160 Speaker 4: Country also on HBO. Really said that only got one season, 639 00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:38,800 Speaker 4: but I thought that was I mean, such a phenomenal film. 640 00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:42,200 Speaker 5: Again, love Craft Country Underground. 641 00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:46,160 Speaker 4: Both of those are together by Misha Green, as I 642 00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:51,120 Speaker 4: shared before, and she's a show writer. She's a screenwriter, director, producer, 643 00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:53,000 Speaker 4: but she really has it kind of on lock. So 644 00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:54,600 Speaker 4: people who are like, oh, I want to see more 645 00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:56,320 Speaker 4: of this, go check out those two. 646 00:33:57,360 --> 00:33:59,960 Speaker 5: I am editing have edited. 647 00:33:59,920 --> 00:34:02,240 Speaker 4: It'll be out it's called Sacred Sisterhoods, a Celebration of 648 00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:05,120 Speaker 4: Black Women's Friendships on television and in film. It'll be 649 00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:09,080 Speaker 4: out October of twenty and twenty five, and I'm so grateful. 650 00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:13,640 Speaker 4: There's fourteen other sas that contributed to this work and 651 00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:16,879 Speaker 4: black women, black scholars, and we dive into it. And 652 00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:19,239 Speaker 4: one of the things that I love about even Ryan's work, 653 00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:22,600 Speaker 4: and as I mentioned before, about Wunumi and Jamie as 654 00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:25,560 Speaker 4: Annie and Perline, these black women and sort of their relationships. 655 00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:28,440 Speaker 5: So we write about that. We write about the way. 656 00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:32,200 Speaker 4: In which black women's relationships have evolved and how they're celebrated. 657 00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:35,319 Speaker 4: And so for people who are like really interested, I'm like, 658 00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:39,680 Speaker 4: now is the time there is so much content available 659 00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:42,480 Speaker 4: and so whether it be like who you're reading, what 660 00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:48,120 Speaker 4: you're reading. BURRETTA Smith Schamad she's down at Emory University 661 00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:53,080 Speaker 4: in Atlanta. She's one of the just absolutely amazing television 662 00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:55,680 Speaker 4: and film scholars that is really going to break down 663 00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:57,320 Speaker 4: some of these elements. 664 00:34:57,360 --> 00:34:59,359 Speaker 5: Herman Gray is another one. 665 00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:02,760 Speaker 4: Donald, if you really want to go back, Donald Bogol 666 00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:04,880 Speaker 4: is one of the goats in terms of looking at 667 00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:08,000 Speaker 4: the way in which black representation on television and film, and. 668 00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:09,880 Speaker 5: He's going to give you everything. 669 00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:11,719 Speaker 4: He's going to take you all the way back to 670 00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:14,200 Speaker 4: Menstrol and he's going to bring you all the way 671 00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:14,920 Speaker 4: up to the present. 672 00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:17,200 Speaker 5: And these are just the work is out there. It's 673 00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:18,040 Speaker 5: such a rich time. 674 00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:19,480 Speaker 3: I'm excited. I know. 675 00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:21,360 Speaker 1: I tell t T all the time about one of 676 00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:23,799 Speaker 1: my favorite authors, who I feel like is super slept On. 677 00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:27,640 Speaker 1: When I was watching Sinners, when I left, I was like, Oh, 678 00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:29,600 Speaker 1: I'm ready for one of her books to have a movie. 679 00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:31,560 Speaker 1: But she's done some stuff, and I think Jordan Peele 680 00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:35,200 Speaker 1: has talked to her about some things before. Tanana Rivdoo 681 00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:40,759 Speaker 1: who Yes, I love Yes, And I was like, this 682 00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:44,560 Speaker 1: feels right up that Alley. I was too young to 683 00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:49,760 Speaker 1: be reading those books. They were scary, but I love them. 684 00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:51,800 Speaker 3: And it really felt it felt good. 685 00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:55,880 Speaker 1: If you were using Sinners in your classroom, what themes 686 00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:59,360 Speaker 1: or scenes would you build a lesson around and why? 687 00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:01,840 Speaker 4: Oh, well, first of all, I am going to be 688 00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:05,600 Speaker 4: using Sinners in my class. I'm rewriting. I have a 689 00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:07,440 Speaker 4: class that I teach every fall. It's called Race and 690 00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:10,080 Speaker 4: Representation in the Media. And I have a whole section 691 00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:12,680 Speaker 4: and I break it down because it's obviously not just 692 00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:18,080 Speaker 4: about black folks. But I start with Isabelle Wilkerson's cast, 693 00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:20,720 Speaker 4: and then I moved through when I go through Nicole 694 00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:23,759 Speaker 4: Hannah Jones sixteen nineteen project and all those things, but 695 00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:26,080 Speaker 4: with Sinners and the way I'm reworking it, the way 696 00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:31,600 Speaker 4: in which they use music in Cinners, and the scene 697 00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:38,440 Speaker 4: where you have the musical and visual montage in the 698 00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:46,800 Speaker 4: juke joint where the nephew is playing and you see 699 00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:51,760 Speaker 4: everything from African dance to hip hop. 700 00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:53,680 Speaker 5: It actually broadens. 701 00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:58,000 Speaker 4: It's not just black music and you have Asian like 702 00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:01,880 Speaker 4: it's just a beautiful and I need to watch it 703 00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:04,560 Speaker 4: and time it again because I was so mesmerized the 704 00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:07,279 Speaker 4: first time. I want to say, this scene might have 705 00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:11,440 Speaker 4: been two and a half minutes and I could have 706 00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:13,840 Speaker 4: experienced it for two and a half hours. 707 00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:17,239 Speaker 5: Yes, and it was the way it was. 708 00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:20,680 Speaker 4: There's no dialogue in the scene, and that to me 709 00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:24,360 Speaker 4: is what is so powerful. And then we started this 710 00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:27,839 Speaker 4: conversation talking about visuals, and we start we talk about 711 00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:31,279 Speaker 4: the cinematography. We talked about the film format that it 712 00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:35,000 Speaker 4: was shot on, but that scene in particular, and again 713 00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:38,560 Speaker 4: no but also spoiler alert, it thematically sets up also 714 00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:42,640 Speaker 4: what's about to come right, And so I remember while 715 00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:45,560 Speaker 4: I'm sitting in the theater watching, I was like, I'm 716 00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:48,719 Speaker 4: smiling my like her face hurts from smiling so much, 717 00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:52,200 Speaker 4: and I felt it. Knowing as a storyteller, I was like, oh, 718 00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:55,840 Speaker 4: it's something about to pop off. I everby too happy, 719 00:37:56,640 --> 00:38:00,839 Speaker 4: like the bars popping, the fish fry is hot. I 720 00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:03,759 Speaker 4: was like, in somebody about to die, I said, I know, 721 00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:06,759 Speaker 4: in about thirty seconds it's about to get lit, and 722 00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:10,640 Speaker 4: against spoiler alert, it did. But that scene right there 723 00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:13,160 Speaker 4: is the one that I will play again and again. 724 00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:15,000 Speaker 4: And I also want to point out which I think 725 00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:18,399 Speaker 4: is really interesting because there was there's all of this 726 00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:23,120 Speaker 4: black soul, hip hop and R and B and obviously 727 00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:31,120 Speaker 4: blues and jazz, but then the vampires also play music. 728 00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:36,880 Speaker 4: And as someone who I won't say that the vampire 729 00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:39,640 Speaker 4: story i've seen True Blood, I'm sort of aware of 730 00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:41,799 Speaker 4: the musing. I understand the whole concept that they have 731 00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:44,640 Speaker 4: to be invited in, and I think that the use 732 00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:47,320 Speaker 4: of music, and so I gain not that scene in particular, 733 00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:49,440 Speaker 4: but I also loved how the vampires and I think 734 00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:52,520 Speaker 4: there was like Irish folklore music being played. Also and 735 00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:56,920 Speaker 4: I was like, it felt random air quotes, because we 736 00:38:57,000 --> 00:38:58,319 Speaker 4: know nothing is random with Ryan. 737 00:38:58,360 --> 00:38:59,400 Speaker 5: Everything is intentional. 738 00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:02,960 Speaker 4: But I do love even that intentionality of bringing in 739 00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:05,200 Speaker 4: and having them play on what was it a banjo? 740 00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:07,720 Speaker 5: If I'm not mistaken, he's like strumming. It was awesome. 741 00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:14,040 Speaker 4: Ryan is really big on details and leaving things stories 742 00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:17,200 Speaker 4: lines just a little bit open, right. It's almost like 743 00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:19,279 Speaker 4: he doesn't know if he wants, Like I might want 744 00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:20,480 Speaker 4: to come back and do another one. 745 00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:23,080 Speaker 5: I might want to do a sequel, maybe this is 746 00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:24,319 Speaker 5: a trilogy. We don't know. 747 00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:27,040 Speaker 4: But the best part of Ryan is you don't know, right, 748 00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:29,879 Speaker 4: and so things are kind of left to let your 749 00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:35,239 Speaker 4: imagination kind of run free in a way that I 750 00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:38,560 Speaker 4: think as a creative is really amazing. But it's that 751 00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:42,319 Speaker 4: montage I mentioned, is it's surreal. It's a celebration of 752 00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:43,000 Speaker 4: black culture. 753 00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:45,759 Speaker 1: I think a lot of people when we go to 754 00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:47,960 Speaker 1: the movies, we just see it as entertainment. But it 755 00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:52,400 Speaker 1: is art first and foremost. And I think watching Centers 756 00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:56,279 Speaker 1: through an artful lens rather than an entertainment lens, like 757 00:39:56,320 --> 00:40:00,600 Speaker 1: it's entertaining, but the art is just real, really. 758 00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:03,160 Speaker 4: Beautiful, absolutely, And I think like when I look at 759 00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:08,000 Speaker 4: how music, how culture. I think of how blues was 760 00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:10,759 Speaker 4: used in the film as the language of resistance. Right, 761 00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:18,080 Speaker 4: Sammy was resisting his father's wishes for his life, and 762 00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:24,000 Speaker 4: not necessarily defiance of him, but it would be defying 763 00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:28,120 Speaker 4: his own self and passions if he did not follow 764 00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:32,120 Speaker 4: through with those dreams. The transcenential power of music, the 765 00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:36,239 Speaker 4: cultural elements of cultural appropriation and legacy, music as this 766 00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:39,960 Speaker 4: like vessel for storytelling. And then of course just how 767 00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:44,080 Speaker 4: he just again that going back to that analogy of 768 00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:46,480 Speaker 4: that pot of gumbo, just the blending of drunkers and 769 00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:50,960 Speaker 4: cultures and all of these different things, and it leaves you. 770 00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:58,160 Speaker 4: I left the theater feeling not even satisfied. Like we've 771 00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:00,360 Speaker 4: all gone to a film or seen something and you're like, 772 00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:01,719 Speaker 4: well that was a waste of time and money, Like 773 00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:06,080 Speaker 4: I could have been doing anything else, but I left 774 00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:08,000 Speaker 4: trying to figure out when I could go see it again. 775 00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:11,080 Speaker 4: He is one of our great storytellers of our generation. 776 00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:14,320 Speaker 4: He's one of our great filmmakers. I think most people now, 777 00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:16,600 Speaker 4: if you didn't know, I knew what fruit Bale station. 778 00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:20,279 Speaker 4: As I mentioned that this is someone who everything that 779 00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:22,960 Speaker 4: he produces everything, He writes everything he directs. 780 00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:29,160 Speaker 1: I want to see, Amani, thank you so much for 781 00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:34,160 Speaker 1: being here, Like we could have talked all day long. Yes, absolutely, 782 00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:36,719 Speaker 1: And after this conversation now I know for for a 783 00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:38,640 Speaker 1: fact that I need to go back and see the 784 00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:41,760 Speaker 1: movie again. And it really just makes me think about 785 00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:43,680 Speaker 1: what an amazing time it is to be able to 786 00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:46,520 Speaker 1: witness the genius of somebody like Ryan Cookler and other 787 00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:49,640 Speaker 1: filmmakers just like him who are doing interesting storytelling, and 788 00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:53,440 Speaker 1: to have access. Sometimes I'm like the Internet is crazy, 789 00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:54,520 Speaker 1: but other times I'm so. 790 00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:56,840 Speaker 3: Glad we have access to all these stories. 791 00:41:56,920 --> 00:41:59,480 Speaker 1: You know, I know, I know, and we could use 792 00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:02,080 Speaker 1: that to apply to so many aspects of our lives 793 00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:04,640 Speaker 1: in all of the artistic ways that we express ourselves. 794 00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:08,560 Speaker 1: Using that high level attention to detail, being a student 795 00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:11,320 Speaker 1: of your craft. It's it's just a beautiful thing to see. 796 00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:13,800 Speaker 3: And that's really what we're trying to do here Dope LPs. 797 00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:16,680 Speaker 1: Like we are not trying to position ourselves as all knowing, 798 00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:18,960 Speaker 1: because we know that the fun is in the learning. 799 00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:21,600 Speaker 1: So I think continuing to learn is exactly what we're 800 00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:23,880 Speaker 1: trying to do with Dope LAPS. But we're also trying 801 00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:26,279 Speaker 1: to spread the love and the possibility for the next 802 00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:28,759 Speaker 1: generation that wants to come along after us and become 803 00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:31,759 Speaker 1: the next science storytellers. Absolutely, and I think that there 804 00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:35,600 Speaker 1: are some really great programs out there right now for 805 00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:39,680 Speaker 1: young people to you know, hone in on those skills, 806 00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:45,480 Speaker 1: learn how to tell stories and scientific stories and just 807 00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:48,520 Speaker 1: storytelling in general, because that is how we connect to folks. 808 00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:51,480 Speaker 1: So if you are interested or know a six through 809 00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:55,839 Speaker 1: twelfth grader who might be interested in scientific storytelling, check 810 00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:59,160 Speaker 1: out the Cycom Summer Camp. Program is all online. It's 811 00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:01,680 Speaker 1: four weeks and you can get more info at sycom, 812 00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:05,120 Speaker 1: launchpad dot com. Dope Labs is sponsoring this program, so 813 00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:08,719 Speaker 1: there are scholarships available because we're proud sponsors. We are 814 00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:11,839 Speaker 1: proud sponsors, so please please please go check that out, 815 00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:14,439 Speaker 1: send it to anyone that you know with somebody that's 816 00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:15,840 Speaker 1: in the grade six through twelve. 817 00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:17,319 Speaker 2: They will not regret it. 818 00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:20,080 Speaker 1: If you have a child that's looking for inspiration, this 819 00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:22,480 Speaker 1: is where it's at. We wouldn't sponsor it if we 820 00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:24,320 Speaker 1: didn't believe in it one hundred percent. 821 00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:24,879 Speaker 3: There you go. 822 00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:36,000 Speaker 1: You can find us on x and Instagram at Dope Labs. 823 00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:39,920 Speaker 1: Podcast TT is on X and Instagram at dr Underscore, 824 00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:42,640 Speaker 1: t s h O and you can find Takiya at 825 00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:43,640 Speaker 1: z said so. 826 00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:46,320 Speaker 3: Dope Labs is a production of Leimanada Media. 827 00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:51,200 Speaker 1: Our senior supervising producer is Kristin Lapour and our associate 828 00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:56,080 Speaker 1: producer is Issara Sives. Dope Labs is sound designed, edited 829 00:43:56,120 --> 00:43:59,960 Speaker 1: and mixed by James Barber. Lamanada Media is. Vice President 830 00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:04,399 Speaker 1: of Partnerships and Production is Jackie Danziger. Executive producer from 831 00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:06,360 Speaker 1: iHeart Podcast is Katrina Norvio. 832 00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:08,479 Speaker 3: Marketing lead is Alison Kanter. 833 00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:13,480 Speaker 1: Original music composed and produced by Taka Yatsuzawa and Alex 834 00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:18,479 Speaker 1: sudi Ura, with additional music by Elijah Harvey. Dope Lab 835 00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:22,000 Speaker 1: is executive produced by us T T Show Dia and 836 00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:22,960 Speaker 1: Kia Wattley.