1
00:00:02,680 --> 00:00:05,360
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Penl Podcast. I'm Paul swing you,

2
00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:07,720
Speaker 1: along with my co host Lisa Brahma wits. Each day

3
00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:10,280
Speaker 1: we bring you the most noteworthy and useful interviews for

4
00:00:10,320 --> 00:00:12,560
Speaker 1: you and your money, whether at the grocery store or

5
00:00:12,600 --> 00:00:15,480
Speaker 1: the trading floor. Find a Bloomberg Penil podcast on Apple

6
00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:18,000
Speaker 1: podcast or wherever you listen to podcasts, as well as

7
00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:21,599
Speaker 1: that Bloomberg dot Com. Time for Bloomberg Opinion right now,

8
00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:25,320
Speaker 1: we turned to Bloomberg Opinion calumnist Narayana culture Lakota, former

9
00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:28,400
Speaker 1: Minneapolis FED president also a professor of economics at the

10
00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:32,240
Speaker 1: University of Rochester. Uh Nariana, thanks so much for joining

11
00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:36,440
Speaker 1: us here. Boys, we think about the response to the pandemic.

12
00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:39,000
Speaker 1: The US Federal Reserve Bank, I think is generally getting

13
00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:44,199
Speaker 1: very good marks from the marketplace in terms of acting early,

14
00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:48,199
Speaker 1: acting acting decisively. But you make the argument that the

15
00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:52,200
Speaker 1: Fed should really consider going negative in terms of interest rates.

16
00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:54,960
Speaker 1: Give us your thoughts there. Yeah, thanks a lot for

17
00:00:55,000 --> 00:00:57,960
Speaker 1: having me on. Um. You know, I think the chairman

18
00:00:58,040 --> 00:01:00,800
Speaker 1: laid out the case pretty well on it'ss conference, so

19
00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:03,640
Speaker 1: he certainly didn't go make the next step of actually

20
00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:05,880
Speaker 1: going negative with rates which is he said that the

21
00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:08,360
Speaker 1: FED has to be prepared to use all its tools

22
00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:13,240
Speaker 1: to support the economy and the recovery that we hope

23
00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:17,160
Speaker 1: it will be coming soon, and that that um that

24
00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:21,560
Speaker 1: means include to me means including going negative with rates. UH.

25
00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:26,160
Speaker 1: Pushing rates down further would stimulate spending um and stimulate

26
00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:28,200
Speaker 1: on the part of the households and stimula investment on

27
00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:30,720
Speaker 1: the part of businesses as it always does, and that

28
00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:33,199
Speaker 1: would be helpful for the for the U S economy.

29
00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:35,480
Speaker 1: What is your view? I mean, I guess you know,

30
00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:40,559
Speaker 1: people look at say Japan, Germany, you know, developed countries

31
00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:43,800
Speaker 1: with negative rates. It just doesn't seem right, doesn't seem

32
00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:47,400
Speaker 1: like the right strategy, the right policy. How do you

33
00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:52,040
Speaker 1: view this negative and interstrates in general? You know, I

34
00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:56,520
Speaker 1: think what's what's happened is that economies turned to them,

35
00:01:57,560 --> 00:01:59,880
Speaker 1: as would be true in the US case, whence the

36
00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:02,240
Speaker 1: situation is bad. So you can't just look at a

37
00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:05,000
Speaker 1: raw correlation between who's using negative rates and the what

38
00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:07,760
Speaker 1: their situations like and say, gee, it looks like all

39
00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:11,440
Speaker 1: the countries that that have negative rates have are not

40
00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:13,880
Speaker 1: doing that well economically. Well, that's because they view them

41
00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:17,800
Speaker 1: as this emergency tool they only turn to when when

42
00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:21,520
Speaker 1: the situation is going badly. Um. The other problem is

43
00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:24,800
Speaker 1: that there're there's a limit to how negative to being

44
00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:26,960
Speaker 1: able to go, are willing to go in something? In

45
00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:31,560
Speaker 1: some instances, and you know, a quarter percentage point are

46
00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:35,880
Speaker 1: fifty basis point cut in interest rates. It's helpful, it's supportive,

47
00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:40,720
Speaker 1: but it's absolutely not a panacea for all possible economic ills.

48
00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:44,000
Speaker 1: That's the US ever done that for any appreciable amount

49
00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:48,080
Speaker 1: of time as a policy matter before. Uh, you know,

50
00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:51,119
Speaker 1: now you're taking a little bit out of my knowledge base.

51
00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:54,520
Speaker 1: But my understanding is that rates did go negative for

52
00:02:54,639 --> 00:02:58,240
Speaker 1: some time in the during the Great Depression. But but

53
00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:00,480
Speaker 1: other than that, no, I don't think right, it's not

54
00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:03,520
Speaker 1: something typically in the toolbox for the US FED. So

55
00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:05,720
Speaker 1: one of the things when we think about the actions

56
00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:10,840
Speaker 1: by the FED, UM, is that the concern or the expectation,

57
00:03:10,919 --> 00:03:14,880
Speaker 1: the assumption is that this pandemic has relatively short life

58
00:03:14,919 --> 00:03:18,520
Speaker 1: measured in quarters. How about if it you know, if

59
00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:21,760
Speaker 1: it's just one in a series of waves of this

60
00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:24,600
Speaker 1: virus and actually goes much longer, what does the FED do? Then?

61
00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:28,160
Speaker 1: I think that's a great question. I think the FED

62
00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:31,760
Speaker 1: and Congress. Uh, you know, I think and and Treasury.

63
00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:34,399
Speaker 1: I think there's you know, there's basically been been all

64
00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:37,600
Speaker 1: these entities in the government I've been working together. The

65
00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:41,560
Speaker 1: perspective is by the time we get into this to

66
00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:45,200
Speaker 1: the certainly we get into the fourth quarter of the year, um,

67
00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:47,240
Speaker 1: the economy is going to be in a very robust

68
00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:54,000
Speaker 1: recovery path and uh, they won't need the further further

69
00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:56,520
Speaker 1: back stopping from from the FED at that point. And

70
00:03:56,560 --> 00:04:00,440
Speaker 1: I think that's led the FED in other entities to say, boy,

71
00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:04,320
Speaker 1: the main job here is to keep businesses alive, try

72
00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:09,360
Speaker 1: to freeze the economy where it was in February. Well,

73
00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:11,240
Speaker 1: that might be acceptable if you're talking about three or

74
00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:15,600
Speaker 1: four months intervention, but if you're talking to three ten years,

75
00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:18,440
Speaker 1: I mean ten is obviously quite extreme, but to three

76
00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:21,159
Speaker 1: years even you're really getting in the way of the

77
00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:26,160
Speaker 1: dynamic flow and processes that really drive us economy. Where

78
00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:28,719
Speaker 1: we want companies to go out of business because they're

79
00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:31,840
Speaker 1: not as being as effective at fulfilling what consumers want.

80
00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:34,040
Speaker 1: And we want workers to be able to move from

81
00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:38,400
Speaker 1: job to job, um, because they're not there may be

82
00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:40,520
Speaker 1: more productive that new job than they were the old one.

83
00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:45,479
Speaker 1: So I worry that, uh, these these interventions are really

84
00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:48,919
Speaker 1: designed to be temporary. As the shock becomes more persistent,

85
00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:52,240
Speaker 1: they're gonna introduce more and more distortions in the economy,

86
00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:56,479
Speaker 1: leading to to worsten worse outcomes. So just real quick seconds,

87
00:04:56,600 --> 00:04:58,240
Speaker 1: what do you think about the Fed's decision to kind

88
00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:02,440
Speaker 1: of go into the corporate bond market. Yeah, I think

89
00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:08,520
Speaker 1: that it's uh uh, I think that the So it's

90
00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:11,800
Speaker 1: a questionable one because I think of the fact that basically,

91
00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:13,760
Speaker 1: I think companies should be facing a lot of risk

92
00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:15,960
Speaker 1: right now, it's appropriate for them to be borrowing at

93
00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:18,800
Speaker 1: high interest rates because it's a very risky world. I

94
00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:21,560
Speaker 1: think the Fed's intervention is getting in the way of

95
00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:24,760
Speaker 1: that signal from the market. Interesting enough to see how

96
00:05:24,839 --> 00:05:26,560
Speaker 1: that plays out in the coming weeks and months. In

97
00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:31,160
Speaker 1: Narayana Culture Lakota, former Minneapolis FED president and Bloomberg Opinion columnists,

98
00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:34,359
Speaker 1: also professor of economics at the University of Rochester, we

99
00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:37,600
Speaker 1: appreciate uh you coming on. You can uh read all

100
00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:41,599
Speaker 1: of Narayana's work at Bloomberg dot Com, Slash Opinion, and

101
00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:44,440
Speaker 1: O P I n Go. That's where you can find

102
00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:47,400
Speaker 1: all of the Bloomberg Opinion work, which is so good

103
00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:50,599
Speaker 1: and we love having the folks on here talking about

104
00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:52,120
Speaker 1: kind of what is going on in the markets in

105
00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:57,080
Speaker 1: the broader implications for the markets. Well, we're right in

106
00:05:57,120 --> 00:05:59,080
Speaker 1: the midst of earning season. We've gotten a lot of

107
00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:01,200
Speaker 1: the numbers coming had a big tech last night. We

108
00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:04,360
Speaker 1: had Amazon and Apple, uh some some big numbers. Next

109
00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:06,160
Speaker 1: week we have some more a lift in Uber and

110
00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:09,440
Speaker 1: some other names. Dan i'ves, managing director equity research at

111
00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:12,280
Speaker 1: what but Securities is a fantastic person to chat with

112
00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:14,800
Speaker 1: when we think about big tech. Dan, thanks so much

113
00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:17,799
Speaker 1: for joining us here. Let's start with those Apple numbers

114
00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:22,400
Speaker 1: last night. I guess all in all, pretty solid numbers, right, yeah,

115
00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:26,880
Speaker 1: better than feared. I mean investors including ourselves were respecting

116
00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:30,359
Speaker 1: a horror show a Friday the thirteen type quarter, just

117
00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:33,440
Speaker 1: giving the pandemic and the supply chain issues, and when

118
00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:35,880
Speaker 1: you ripped the band aid off was better than expected.

119
00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:38,360
Speaker 1: And I think you combine that with at least some

120
00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:42,360
Speaker 1: you know, ways of hoop in China from a demand perspective,

121
00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:45,159
Speaker 1: I think that was enough for investor to network on

122
00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:47,040
Speaker 1: the other side of this dark valley and by the

123
00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:50,320
Speaker 1: stock so Dan, what do you make of them? I guess,

124
00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:52,960
Speaker 1: you know, not giving guidances, that's I mean, obviously a

125
00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:55,839
Speaker 1: lot of companies are not giving guidance, but for Apple, uh,

126
00:06:55,960 --> 00:06:58,840
Speaker 1: that's pretty unusual. They usually been pretty solid about giving

127
00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:01,560
Speaker 1: you at least a range of guidance in terms of

128
00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:05,839
Speaker 1: some of the big items. Yeah, it's unprecedented for Apple,

129
00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:07,680
Speaker 1: and I think for many companies. And I think the

130
00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:10,920
Speaker 1: knee jerk you saw last night with the stockdown, and

131
00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:13,160
Speaker 1: I've talked to some investors that are worried about that,

132
00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:16,200
Speaker 1: but I take a step back. I mean, right now,

133
00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:19,560
Speaker 1: when you look at June quarter, given all the variables,

134
00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:22,960
Speaker 1: all the demand issues, it would be like cook playing

135
00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:27,080
Speaker 1: a game of blindfolded darts to give guidance for June,

136
00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:30,120
Speaker 1: and I think that would be imprudent. And I think

137
00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:34,360
Speaker 1: right now Moose investors are looking past June into September,

138
00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:37,640
Speaker 1: into next year. That's what the valuations offer. And the

139
00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:42,120
Speaker 1: important thing is services. That's the rocket Gibraltar for Apple.

140
00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:45,680
Speaker 1: I mean, that's continuing to be very strong. That midteam

141
00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:48,240
Speaker 1: growth that's something like in live actually be focused on

142
00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:51,560
Speaker 1: along with China. So Dan, I know there's been some

143
00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:54,360
Speaker 1: discussion about some of the new products, A mid price phone,

144
00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:58,520
Speaker 1: uh five G phone, you know, perhaps a new supercycle

145
00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:03,520
Speaker 1: if you will, for the five G phone pandemic, this crisis,

146
00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:09,200
Speaker 1: this economic uncertainty impacting those product rollouts. Yeah, that's really

147
00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:12,200
Speaker 1: I think the bigger question. If you look at what

148
00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:16,320
Speaker 1: we're seeing with unemployment, the average consumer focus more about

149
00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:19,440
Speaker 1: their health, groceries and hand sanitized and their thousand now

150
00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:23,000
Speaker 1: our plus iPhones. What does the man look like over

151
00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:25,760
Speaker 1: the next six, twelve, eighteen months, you know, and I

152
00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:29,160
Speaker 1: see at least right now from our data points in Asia,

153
00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:32,120
Speaker 1: it's showing that this is going to be what I

154
00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:35,880
Speaker 1: would call a moderate products cycle, not the initial supercycle

155
00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:39,680
Speaker 1: from five G, but it's a two parts supercycle which

156
00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:42,240
Speaker 1: goes in two thousand twenty one. I mean, you'll see

157
00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:45,880
Speaker 1: about ten to fifteen percent taken off units. But when

158
00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:49,880
Speaker 1: you look at that, you have nine million I phones.

159
00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:53,440
Speaker 1: Just to put numbers around it, three hundred fifty million

160
00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:56,640
Speaker 1: of those iPhones have not upgraded their phone in forty

161
00:08:56,679 --> 00:08:59,880
Speaker 1: two months, so there's massive pent up demand. But that's

162
00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:02,360
Speaker 1: us and why they have the lower end version on

163
00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:05,440
Speaker 1: the FD with three nine nine price points, which could

164
00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:09,040
Speaker 1: be attractive to many consumers in this type of environment.

165
00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:11,560
Speaker 1: All right, da, in time we have Left, I want

166
00:09:11,559 --> 00:09:13,160
Speaker 1: to switch gears a little bit. We've got Uber and

167
00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:16,880
Speaker 1: Lift coming up earnings wise. Boy, when you think about

168
00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:20,720
Speaker 1: those companies, um, I just is there's just no demand

169
00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:22,720
Speaker 1: for those products? Is that just kind of dry up?

170
00:09:22,760 --> 00:09:27,079
Speaker 1: What's the status of Lift and Uber? It's a category

171
00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:29,120
Speaker 1: five storm. I mean when you think about the gig

172
00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:32,280
Speaker 1: economy from an Airbnb to Uber and left, they're really

173
00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:35,840
Speaker 1: in the eye of the storm. Now for Uber uber Eats,

174
00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:39,400
Speaker 1: which was really i'd say the black cloud on the

175
00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:43,240
Speaker 1: story has now actually become a benefit. But this is

176
00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:47,080
Speaker 1: another one'll ride. We cut our numbers. Wow, But I

177
00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:49,360
Speaker 1: think it's one where you look, if you look at

178
00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:53,439
Speaker 1: the valuation, can they navigate through the small equity perspective?

179
00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:55,960
Speaker 1: We think the answers yes, and then you look at

180
00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:59,480
Speaker 1: obviously a much more moderate growth profile. But I think

181
00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:01,560
Speaker 1: it's a pro offitable one and it's one of these

182
00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:06,080
Speaker 1: investors they're looking out six twelve, eighteen months with an

183
00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:10,960
Speaker 1: Uber with you in a semi normalized environment obviously one

184
00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:15,559
Speaker 1: that has you know, just massive uncertainty abound. So as

185
00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:19,080
Speaker 1: you talk to the companies and Dan, are they concerned

186
00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:22,319
Speaker 1: at all about consumer behavior? May there may be some

187
00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:26,040
Speaker 1: permanent changes to consumer behavior that will either work in

188
00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:28,640
Speaker 1: the favor or maybe against the kind of the ride

189
00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:32,000
Speaker 1: hailing business model in general. Yeah, in terms of the

190
00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:35,199
Speaker 1: gig economy and ride handling, it's all headwards. I mean,

191
00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:38,920
Speaker 1: there's really no glimmer of positive in this environment. I

192
00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:42,040
Speaker 1: think they're from a business model perspective, going to have

193
00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:45,520
Speaker 1: to do things to get consumers comfortable with the sefety

194
00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:50,559
Speaker 1: of the vehicles. From a COVID perspective, and there are concerns,

195
00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:52,920
Speaker 1: and I think there's one when you look at ride

196
00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:56,520
Speaker 1: charns what the market opportunity looks like on the other

197
00:10:56,559 --> 00:10:58,920
Speaker 1: side of this dark valley, And I think you're gonna

198
00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:02,319
Speaker 1: have tend to sifteam scent of consumers that will not

199
00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:05,480
Speaker 1: get into a ride sharing vehicle, let alone maybe a

200
00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:09,840
Speaker 1: taxire or mass transportation. So that's definitely a big issue

201
00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:13,000
Speaker 1: here that needs to be navigated for these comings. But

202
00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:18,200
Speaker 1: next week leaches the first step to getting some visibility here.

203
00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:20,920
Speaker 1: And just real quick twenty seconds, how are the balance

204
00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:25,120
Speaker 1: sheets right now? The balance sheets? We they'll get through

205
00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:27,199
Speaker 1: the storm, and I have some more equity perspective. But

206
00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:29,160
Speaker 1: they're gonna have to cut cost. I mean it's gonna

207
00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:32,840
Speaker 1: be some you know, some pain ahead from a cost

208
00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:35,760
Speaker 1: kind of perspective. Hey, Dan, thanks so much for joining us.

209
00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:38,720
Speaker 1: We always appreciate your perspective on all things technology. Dan

210
00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:42,320
Speaker 1: ives is a senior technology analys for web Bush Securities. Uh.

211
00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:43,960
Speaker 1: You know, we had some good numbers out of Apple,

212
00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:46,720
Speaker 1: and as Dan was suggesting here, the business model, uh,

213
00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:49,679
Speaker 1: is pretty robust when you take a look at the Apple,

214
00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:51,880
Speaker 1: when you take a look at the new products they

215
00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:54,560
Speaker 1: have coming as well as the growth of their services business,

216
00:11:54,559 --> 00:11:56,439
Speaker 1: which is Dan has said has really been kind of

217
00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:59,680
Speaker 1: the bedrock for the company and the growth story going

218
00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:02,440
Speaker 1: for or so Apple some solid results stock after trading

219
00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:05,880
Speaker 1: off initially kind of coming back so uh, investors kind

220
00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:12,280
Speaker 1: of looking towards the other side of that right now.

221
00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:14,280
Speaker 1: We're taking a look at the markets. Uh, you know,

222
00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:15,920
Speaker 1: a red day in the markets here when you take

223
00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:19,800
Speaker 1: a look at the SMP five thirty three decline that

224
00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:23,040
Speaker 1: sell off we had as a pandemic really became apparent

225
00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:25,720
Speaker 1: for investors. We clawed back almost half of that. The

226
00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:28,280
Speaker 1: question is where do we go from here to help

227
00:12:28,360 --> 00:12:31,400
Speaker 1: us with that we welcome uh and Witty Bahuguna. Uh.

228
00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:34,199
Speaker 1: She is a head of multi asset strategy at Columbia

229
00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:36,920
Speaker 1: thread Needle Investments. Uh, and Witty, we thank you so

230
00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:39,000
Speaker 1: much for joining us here. I think a lot of

231
00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:41,840
Speaker 1: investors are just trying to get a handle on has

232
00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:45,719
Speaker 1: the market bounced back too much? Given what we are

233
00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:48,400
Speaker 1: seeing in terms of macro economic data, given what we're

234
00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:51,880
Speaker 1: seeing in terms of eight earnings and lack of earnings forecast?

235
00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:53,520
Speaker 1: How do you what do you make of the market

236
00:12:53,559 --> 00:12:57,680
Speaker 1: right here? And Witty Hi, Paul um, Yes, I think

237
00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:01,599
Speaker 1: the rebound from the often we saw in March have

238
00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:07,680
Speaker 1: been spectacular. Part of it understandable given the amount of

239
00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:13,720
Speaker 1: monetary and physical support we have seen announced since the

240
00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:18,160
Speaker 1: crisis began. But the speed of the rebound have been

241
00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:22,600
Speaker 1: spectacular and does seem a bit ahead of fundamental given

242
00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:27,720
Speaker 1: what lies ahead for the next forceable couple of quarters

243
00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:32,600
Speaker 1: at least. Paul, alright, so it's really interesting here again

244
00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:36,319
Speaker 1: we had to these incredible gyrations down first and then up.

245
00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:39,000
Speaker 1: How do you How should investors, to the extent they

246
00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:42,400
Speaker 1: want to look to the other side of this pandemic,

247
00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:47,520
Speaker 1: how should they be positioning themselves right here. So I

248
00:13:47,559 --> 00:13:51,880
Speaker 1: think if you're thinking twelve to eighteen months ahead, where

249
00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:56,719
Speaker 1: we hopefully Paul have much clarity on UM, not just

250
00:13:57,240 --> 00:14:01,160
Speaker 1: the not not just how they NOMY will respond, but

251
00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:05,920
Speaker 1: whether we have some sort of vaccine or therapeutics to

252
00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:12,760
Speaker 1: help the economy open up substantially, not just gradually. I

253
00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:16,199
Speaker 1: think twelve months to eighteen months ahead we should not

254
00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:19,120
Speaker 1: see much difference in our positioning we I think we

255
00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:22,800
Speaker 1: should see equities, big bonds and your standard as a

256
00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:27,000
Speaker 1: allocation will make sense looking ahead look twelve to eighteen months.

257
00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:31,080
Speaker 1: But in the short term, the bounce back has been,

258
00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:35,040
Speaker 1: as you mentioned, spectacular and appears a bit ahead of

259
00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:39,520
Speaker 1: where the fundamentals are currently. So looking a few quarters ahead,

260
00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:41,600
Speaker 1: I think it's probably best to be a little more

261
00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:50,080
Speaker 1: cautiously positioned UM and think about how this economy opens up,

262
00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:53,080
Speaker 1: and what do we see in terms of people coming back,

263
00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:57,600
Speaker 1: consumers spending again, businesses opening up, and the production take off.

264
00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:01,880
Speaker 1: And cautially yeah, exactly, because one of the things that

265
00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:05,920
Speaker 1: I know is has many economists and investors concerned is

266
00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:08,080
Speaker 1: just the state of the labor market. This is a

267
00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:11,840
Speaker 1: consumer driven economy and we've had boy over thirty million

268
00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:15,640
Speaker 1: jobs lost just in the last five to six weeks,

269
00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:19,560
Speaker 1: just stunning, stunning numbers. Um, how does that suggest to

270
00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:23,120
Speaker 1: you that this economy will come back? How are you guys?

271
00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:26,800
Speaker 1: What's your base case for how the economy uh will bottom?

272
00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:30,080
Speaker 1: Where will bottom? And how will come back up? So

273
00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:33,080
Speaker 1: that is the key question everyone's asking these days, and

274
00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:35,680
Speaker 1: our base cases that we will not see a V

275
00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:40,200
Speaker 1: shaped rebound in the economy. Now, the markets may behave differently, Paul,

276
00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:42,880
Speaker 1: and as you can see, they already are, but the

277
00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:48,400
Speaker 1: economy will most likely see a protracted recovery. The numbers

278
00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:52,440
Speaker 1: you mentioned are stunning. These are very expected though, because

279
00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:56,960
Speaker 1: this is a policy induced shutdown of the economy. Um.

280
00:15:57,040 --> 00:16:02,000
Speaker 1: So we are encouraging people not to work. But the

281
00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:07,440
Speaker 1: recovery will be from from those levels of unemployment is

282
00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:12,000
Speaker 1: never quite immediate. Companies go out of business, it takes

283
00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:16,400
Speaker 1: a time to restart. Employment takes time, some people decide

284
00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:19,920
Speaker 1: to leave the labor force. All those dynamics makes us

285
00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:24,120
Speaker 1: think that this will be a protracted, you shaped or

286
00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:29,680
Speaker 1: um slower recovery then, UM, then then you then you

287
00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:33,240
Speaker 1: would think if it was a simple exogenous shock. I

288
00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:36,000
Speaker 1: think what would be really critical is to build people's

289
00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:42,480
Speaker 1: confidence to come back to um to to to sports arenas, theaters,

290
00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:45,920
Speaker 1: and and start enjoying life again, which drives a large

291
00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:49,200
Speaker 1: part of the U S economy, and we expect that

292
00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:52,280
Speaker 1: will be a slow process. Now, what would completely change

293
00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:56,160
Speaker 1: the dynamics is that if we have a sure um

294
00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:59,480
Speaker 1: medical solution to all this, as you can see if

295
00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:02,080
Speaker 1: pisotic leave, when we get some confidence that there will

296
00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:05,159
Speaker 1: be a vaccine, there will be a heteropeutic drug that

297
00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:09,399
Speaker 1: helps us fight even the even the virus if someone

298
00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:12,760
Speaker 1: gets it. Those sort of medical developments can change the

299
00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:17,000
Speaker 1: dynamic very quickly. But right now our expectations are that

300
00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:22,320
Speaker 1: those are slower movie uh solutions and and likely we

301
00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:26,199
Speaker 1: are going to see it retracted. And I'm sorry I

302
00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:29,200
Speaker 1: have to interrupt here. We have to go to Connecticut

303
00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:32,600
Speaker 1: Governor Ned Lamont and Witty Bahuguna head a multi asset strategy,

304
00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:38,120
Speaker 1: Columba thread Little thanks so much. Well, we're looking as

305
00:17:38,119 --> 00:17:40,639
Speaker 1: we hear more and more from state governors around the country,

306
00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:43,119
Speaker 1: where you're really coming to get us get a sense

307
00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:47,240
Speaker 1: of the fiscal pressures put upon state and local municipal budgets.

308
00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:49,440
Speaker 1: Of question is what does that mean for the municipal

309
00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:52,879
Speaker 1: bond investors that have been supporting uh, these entities to

310
00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:56,120
Speaker 1: do that. We welcome Joe my sec He covers all

311
00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:59,680
Speaker 1: things municipal bonds for Bloomberg Briefs. Joe, thanks so much

312
00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:03,879
Speaker 1: for joining us again. So let's talk about this the

313
00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:08,080
Speaker 1: I guess the stress that states are being put under

314
00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:10,800
Speaker 1: the finances of these states and how much can the

315
00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:15,600
Speaker 1: federal government actually help them out. Well, nice to be

316
00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:19,520
Speaker 1: with you, Mr Sweeney. Um, you know, it's uh that

317
00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:26,000
Speaker 1: the federal government is so far providing help in the

318
00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:29,280
Speaker 1: form of basically no borrowing from the Fed, but it's

319
00:18:29,359 --> 00:18:34,199
Speaker 1: also now looking at possibly one trillion dollar package. This

320
00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:37,880
Speaker 1: is going to be next uh you know aid package.

321
00:18:38,119 --> 00:18:42,679
Speaker 1: Nancy Pelosi said she's heard that there are demands were

322
00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:46,639
Speaker 1: up to a trillion dollars. So we'll see, um, you know.

323
00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:51,280
Speaker 1: Then you know in Congress they're not they're not meeting

324
00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:54,440
Speaker 1: right now about it, and the states and municipalities are

325
00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:57,840
Speaker 1: really uh in a spot they're they're looking forward to

326
00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:00,439
Speaker 1: getting some of this money. Well, it's in interesting what

327
00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:02,879
Speaker 1: we've seen, Joe, as you well know, is this virus

328
00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:05,800
Speaker 1: is has not you know, been equal across the country.

329
00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:08,919
Speaker 1: Certain hotspots, whether it's on the coast or something like that,

330
00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:13,439
Speaker 1: in states like New Jersey, Connecticut, Uh, New York certainly

331
00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:17,280
Speaker 1: even California, you know, bearing a higher a brunt of

332
00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:20,399
Speaker 1: this than some other states. How the securities how he

333
00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:22,440
Speaker 1: missed a bond market kind of treated some of those

334
00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:27,439
Speaker 1: high risk states. Uh, you know, it's it's uh, you know,

335
00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:32,200
Speaker 1: the bond market right now is uh, it's it's it's

336
00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:36,240
Speaker 1: trying desperately to get back to normal. So we've seen

337
00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:40,520
Speaker 1: sales new issue sales the last you know, three weeks

338
00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:42,720
Speaker 1: or so, it's wee or four weeks. So we've we've

339
00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:46,239
Speaker 1: seen people come to market. Um, we haven't seen uh,

340
00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:50,720
Speaker 1: you know, ballout spreads. But you know, you talk about

341
00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:53,840
Speaker 1: the states under pressure, you know, it's obviously you know,

342
00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:56,560
Speaker 1: a good idea for for New Jersey not to come

343
00:19:56,600 --> 00:20:00,119
Speaker 1: to market, you know, possibly right now, although it's as

344
00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:03,119
Speaker 1: similarly enough, Illinois plans to come to market in a

345
00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:08,240
Speaker 1: couple of weeks. And another issue I wrote about today, Uh,

346
00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:12,560
Speaker 1: the Metropolitan Transportation Authority is coming to market next week,

347
00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:17,720
Speaker 1: which is sort of astounding because these you know, Illinois

348
00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:20,040
Speaker 1: and the m T a h in addition to New

349
00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:22,600
Speaker 1: York city, of course, have been sort of the faces

350
00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:26,000
Speaker 1: of the pandemic so far. What kind of premium are

351
00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:28,200
Speaker 1: they will they have to pay? Do you think to

352
00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:31,719
Speaker 1: get back into the market given what's really changed for

353
00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:37,320
Speaker 1: their finances in their states? Wow? Okay, so Illinois. Uh,

354
00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:41,439
Speaker 1: they are about four other basis points over the triple

355
00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:45,520
Speaker 1: A benchmark in ten years now, so you know that's

356
00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:49,679
Speaker 1: in the five maybe in the sixes, uh, which you

357
00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:52,960
Speaker 1: know right now the triple A bench markets at one

358
00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:55,320
Speaker 1: forty two, So that's what you're getting one of forty

359
00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:58,080
Speaker 1: two tax exempt in ten years. Uh? Now are you

360
00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:00,359
Speaker 1: going to get four hundred or five hundred bases points?

361
00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:03,200
Speaker 1: I don't know. A lot could happen in two weeks,

362
00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:09,200
Speaker 1: but you know it's possible. M T A Uh, you know,

363
00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:13,840
Speaker 1: obviously Les because M T A is higher rating. He's

364
00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:18,200
Speaker 1: rated eight too with bestment grade by Booty's and uh,

365
00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:21,920
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's it's amazing there's a credit where

366
00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:26,920
Speaker 1: the subway ridership has dropped, so it's the cash is

367
00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:32,000
Speaker 1: has evaporated, and they've gone to the federal government. They've

368
00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:35,560
Speaker 1: got to uh, you know, everyone you could think of

369
00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:40,720
Speaker 1: asking for money, and uh, you know, it's just such

370
00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:44,080
Speaker 1: a fixture in New York though that you know, it's

371
00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:47,520
Speaker 1: I suspect it won't do, you know, as badly as

372
00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:51,920
Speaker 1: perhaps Illinois. Interesting, I see that state unemployment funds also

373
00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:55,200
Speaker 1: another area of risk here. They're you know, going broke

374
00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:59,000
Speaker 1: from the flood of claims California, New York, Texas among states.

375
00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:01,640
Speaker 1: They're also seeking federal loans. How do you think that's

376
00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:04,960
Speaker 1: going to play out. I think there will be no

377
00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:08,400
Speaker 1: choice but for a Congress to make sure that those

378
00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:14,520
Speaker 1: funds are topped up. Uh, it's just it's just it's

379
00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:17,840
Speaker 1: an unfortunate squeeze. But this is what happens when you

380
00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:22,960
Speaker 1: decided to shut down. I guess it's about of your

381
00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:28,280
Speaker 1: economy and so well. See federal government to the rescue.

382
00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:31,960
Speaker 1: Joe my Sac, Editor Bloomberg Brief for Bloomberg News, giving

383
00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:33,760
Speaker 1: us are everything we need to know about the miss

384
00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:36,520
Speaker 1: bond market, and of course, as we hear from governors

385
00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:39,359
Speaker 1: around the country. Ned Lamont of Connecticut we heard earlier

386
00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:42,480
Speaker 1: today talking about the uh the deficit in the state

387
00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:44,879
Speaker 1: of Connecticut for this fiscal year. We've heard about that

388
00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:50,760
Speaker 1: from Governor Cuomo as well. But we had some really

389
00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:53,840
Speaker 1: tough results out of the oil giants Chevron and Exxon

390
00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:56,400
Speaker 1: Mobile here not surprising, I guess with what we've seen

391
00:22:56,440 --> 00:23:00,080
Speaker 1: the decline in global oil prices as supplying to and

392
00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:03,400
Speaker 1: dynamics just really fall apart for global crude. To help

393
00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:05,560
Speaker 1: us walk us through the details, who welcome our good

394
00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:10,320
Speaker 1: friend Fernando Valier, oil and gas analysts for Bloomberg Intelligence. Fernando,

395
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:12,280
Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us. Give us kind

396
00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:15,639
Speaker 1: of the key takeaways at thirty foot takeaways you have

397
00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:19,960
Speaker 1: from these two giants Chevron and ex On Mobile and Paul,

398
00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:22,919
Speaker 1: great to be here. I think you know. With excell

399
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:25,800
Speaker 1: And it's really just a tight rope. They have to

400
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:29,520
Speaker 1: balance uh their balance shoot at the same time as

401
00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:32,240
Speaker 1: not cutting too much spending because their portfolio is in

402
00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:35,119
Speaker 1: dire in dire need of a revamping. And that's what

403
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:38,560
Speaker 1: we saw from the call. Even with Darren Woods, they

404
00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:40,919
Speaker 1: can't really go afford to cut too much because if

405
00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:44,520
Speaker 1: they do, they just jeopardize their ability to sustain the

406
00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:48,439
Speaker 1: dividend into the second The other half of this, the

407
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:51,920
Speaker 1: rest of the future um. With Chevron, they're in a

408
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:54,679
Speaker 1: much more comfortable position. They have a good portfolio, they

409
00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:56,800
Speaker 1: had a lot of growth that came through over the

410
00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:59,440
Speaker 1: past several years, and they have the best balance shoot

411
00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:01,600
Speaker 1: in the business, so they can afford to cut a

412
00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:04,840
Speaker 1: lot of their capex and still sustain that dividend even

413
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:08,240
Speaker 1: due this downturn. So it's really a tale to um

414
00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:12,240
Speaker 1: what happened ten years ago, paying out now where Chevron

415
00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:15,080
Speaker 1: really did their homework in the prior decade, and and

416
00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:18,440
Speaker 1: that they're sitting pretty relative to all of their peers.

417
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:20,040
Speaker 1: So for x On Mobile, let's go back to that

418
00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:23,520
Speaker 1: dividend issue. We're seeing lots of companies across many sectors,

419
00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:27,399
Speaker 1: you know, reducing or eliminating their dividend because recognizing that

420
00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:29,840
Speaker 1: this is really going to be a threat to the

421
00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:33,480
Speaker 1: liquidity and to their capital. What's the feeling at x

422
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:37,760
Speaker 1: On there They seem pretty adamant about not cutting their dividend. Well,

423
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:40,280
Speaker 1: I'd actually say from the call it was the first

424
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:43,000
Speaker 1: time to even entertained the idea that a dividend cut

425
00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:46,719
Speaker 1: could eventually happen if this lasts for a long time. Uh,

426
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:50,800
Speaker 1: Darren Wood's the CEO, painted a fairly optimistic picture about

427
00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:54,960
Speaker 1: our recovery. We don't know that that materializes as rosy

428
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,760
Speaker 1: as he's painting it. But you know, after a shell

429
00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:00,800
Speaker 1: cut their dividend UH sixty seven per sent first time

430
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:03,680
Speaker 1: since World War Two. It's really showed that the industry

431
00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:07,280
Speaker 1: has to rebase to a new future. And and we

432
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:10,440
Speaker 1: really don't know how consumption is going to come back.

433
00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:13,440
Speaker 1: We've seen in China that there's been more gasoline consumption

434
00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:17,760
Speaker 1: because people are avoiding public transportation. UM. But on the

435
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:21,600
Speaker 1: side of trade and certainly on the side of airlines,

436
00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:24,000
Speaker 1: that domain is going to be subdued for a very

437
00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:27,640
Speaker 1: long time. And that all impacts their ability to to

438
00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:32,720
Speaker 1: to recover their profits. And essentially, UH that maintained that

439
00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:35,879
Speaker 1: capital structure that was built for an oil price at

440
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:40,119
Speaker 1: least double what we're seeing currently. So for an, had

441
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:44,639
Speaker 1: the big oil companies received any federal support um from

442
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:48,760
Speaker 1: the fiscal stimulus plans be seen, uh not so far,

443
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:52,040
Speaker 1: not the large cap ones and UH and really there's

444
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:55,800
Speaker 1: very limited room for them to to outwardly support uh

445
00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:59,480
Speaker 1: these companies. The oversupply is global and we're already seeing

446
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:03,840
Speaker 1: a response to speak at Dealtec plus cuts. Um. Okay, Fernando, sorry,

447
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:05,800
Speaker 1: I have to interrupt, Fernando. We're going to go to

448
00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:08,679
Speaker 1: Governer Andrew Cuomo, Fernando Vai, Oil and Gas Animal from

449
00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:11,040
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Intelligence. We thank you so much for talking with us.

450
00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:14,400
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg P and L podcast.

451
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:17,120
Speaker 1: You can subscribe and listen to interviews at Apple Podcasts

452
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:20,200
Speaker 1: or whatever podcast platform you prefer. I'm Paul Sweeney. I'm

453
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:22,919
Speaker 1: on Twitter at pt Sweeney. I'm Lisa abram Woyit's I'm

454
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:25,840
Speaker 1: on Twitter at Lisa abram Woyds one Before the podcast,

455
00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:28,440
Speaker 1: you can always catch us worldwide. I'm Bloomberg Radio