Speaker 1: Do you ever wonder where your garbage goes when you
Speaker 1: throw it out, Well, it goes to a landfill, And
Speaker 1: landfills are run by people, and people get sick. Today
Speaker 1: I'm Parts privillion. We look at the very difficult choices
Speaker 1: on the horizon for the folks who regulate refuse. Hello,
Speaker 1: and welcome back to Parts per Billion, the environmental podcast
Speaker 1: from Bloomberg Las. I'm your host, David Schultz, And no surprise,
Speaker 1: I'm recording another episode in my spare bedroom and my
Speaker 1: upstairs neighbors, I believe are doing a peloton class, so
Speaker 1: you may hear that during this episode. So it's no
Speaker 1: surprise that landfills are often a major source of pollution.
Speaker 1: I mean, they're basically just big piles of trash. But
Speaker 1: that means that landfills are regulated by the folks at
Speaker 1: the EPA and those in state environmental agencies. Their jobs
Speaker 1: are to make sure that no toxic substances seep out
Speaker 1: of the landfills and into soil, water, or air well Now,
Speaker 1: fills across the country have a new toxic substance to
Speaker 1: deal with medical waste contaminated with the new coronavirus that's
Speaker 1: been spreading around and at the same time, the waste
Speaker 1: management industry has a lot of folks who are getting
Speaker 1: sick with the new coronavirus that's been spreading around. These
Speaker 1: two developments are putting huge pressure on the industry and
Speaker 1: in turn, they're asking regulators to cut them some slack.
Speaker 1: And here to talk about what that might look like
Speaker 1: is reporter Sylvia Kargden, who covers waste management. Sylvia, Hello,
Speaker 1: hi David. The pandemic has clearly caused a spike in
Speaker 1: the amount of medical waste that these landfills are dealing with,
Speaker 1: and it will continue too. I don't think there's any
Speaker 1: doubt about that. How does this get disposed of? Is
Speaker 1: it treated just like regular trash that we throw out
Speaker 1: or is it treated differently? It's a good question. It
Speaker 1: is not treated like the rest of the trash that
Speaker 1: we usually throw out, so medical waste, since it can
Speaker 1: have infectious bugs in it, Sometimes it's treated with something
Speaker 1: else called an autocli, which is this container that you
Speaker 1: can put materials in to be sterilized by high pressure steam.
Speaker 1: The steam gets hot enough to kill the bacteria or
Speaker 1: a virus or whatever might be living inside, and after
Speaker 1: it goes through the autoclave, then it can go to
Speaker 1: a typical landfill, got it. Sometimes it's just incinerated. It
Speaker 1: just burned to a crisp and all the ashes are
Speaker 1: disposed of somewhere. So a very small amount of medical
Speaker 1: waste is incinerated. So let's say you have someone who
Speaker 1: is infected with the virus. They're wearing a mask. That
Speaker 1: mask needs to be disposed of. How do you dispose
Speaker 1: of that? It kind of depends on where you are
Speaker 1: at the time. If you happen to be someone who's
Speaker 1: working from home, maybe you're in like caring for somebody
Speaker 1: who's stuck in their house and you're their caretaker coming
Speaker 1: to them, you might end up putting the mask in
Speaker 1: the trash, just municipal trash. But if you are working
Speaker 1: in a hospital, there are certain protocols in place. So
Speaker 1: it really depends on where you are when that waste
Speaker 1: is generated or when it's created, and how it gets
Speaker 1: thrown away. I see, So how are the cities and
Speaker 1: the companies, because you know, landfills are operated by you
Speaker 1: know a number of different entities. How are they handling this?
Speaker 1: Are they increasing capacity? Are they ramping up? I guess
Speaker 1: these autoclaives that you talked about. I imagine they can
Speaker 1: only handle so much waste. You know, how is it's
Speaker 1: working right, There's only so much capacity for those kinds
Speaker 1: of things. The private companies in waste management that I've
Speaker 1: been talking to, they are preparing right now. They're not
Speaker 1: seeing an overwhelming amount of medical waste just yet, but
Speaker 1: they are sort of waiting for that peak to eventually happen.
Speaker 1: There's ways that they can prepare just within their offices
Speaker 1: themselves and also when they're sending personnel out to pick
Speaker 1: up the waste. So they're making changes in their usual
Speaker 1: practices to deal with this. But they're you know, the
Speaker 1: folks at the landfills have to manage all of this.
Speaker 1: These are people, they have to encounter all of this material.
Speaker 1: What are the companies doing to keep them safe and
Speaker 1: to make sure they don't contract the virus from one
Speaker 1: of some of this medical waste. Well, there's some waste
Speaker 1: management companies out there that are sending personnel to hospitals
Speaker 1: to pick up waste, and that's a usual practice. Sometimes
Speaker 1: they'll pick up things like needles or syringes, you know
Speaker 1: what they would usually call sharps, and these people who
Speaker 1: would usually go into patient rooms to pick up that
Speaker 1: material are saying, we're not going to be able to
Speaker 1: enter any places where patients are being isolated. So if
Speaker 1: you're a nurse's throwing out a use syringe, for example,
Speaker 1: you would have to take it to a common area
Speaker 1: outside of that isolation room where it's safer for that
Speaker 1: person to come in and pick it up. So it
Speaker 1: doesn't sound initially, it doesn't sound like that big of
Speaker 1: a deal, but it's just one more complication. It's like
Speaker 1: one more thing that makes medical professionals' lives more complicated.
Speaker 1: Now when you know everything, it seems to be happening
Speaker 1: all at once, right, it's one more box in the checklist. Yeah,
Speaker 1: who regulates medical waste is because I could see an
Speaker 1: argument for having the EPA do this. I could see
Speaker 1: FDA saying, no, this is us, Like, who's responsible for
Speaker 1: making sure this this process happens the way it's supposed
Speaker 1: to do so, Like like a lot of other waste,
Speaker 1: medical waste is regulated under a tangled web of rules,
Speaker 1: wonderful and so for example, the EPA will regulate air
Speaker 1: emissions from medical waste incinerators. OSHA regulates the employees who
Speaker 1: are handling those needles and syringes that go in the
Speaker 1: sharp's disposal. I forgot about Ocean DOT. The Department of
Speaker 1: Transportation regulates the waste while it's being transported. States can say,
Speaker 1: you know, any one of these things isn't strict enough
Speaker 1: for us, and we're going to go a little bit further.
Speaker 1: So there's a lot of different regulations that people have
Speaker 1: to follow when they're getting rid of medical waste. So
Speaker 1: we've got an alphabet soup here. You know, what, have
Speaker 1: you heard about any of these agencies, either on the
Speaker 1: state or federal level, doing anything differently in the last
Speaker 1: couple of days or weeks to regulate this waste or
Speaker 1: are they you know, do the normal rules still apply.
Speaker 1: We've been writing a lot about the EPA, and the
Speaker 1: EPA just issued some guidance on their enforcement practices during
Speaker 1: the pandemic. To some extent, they're giving some leniency on
Speaker 1: like reporting emissions, for example, So that kind of thing
Speaker 1: where you're worried about meeting a deadline, agencies maybe a
Speaker 1: little bit more flexible there. We might see a little
Speaker 1: bit more of that as the pandemic sort of drags out.
Speaker 1: That's a great segue into our next topic, which is
Speaker 1: everyday you know, normal waste. But before we get to that,
Speaker 1: we're going to take a break. But stick with us,
Speaker 1: because we come back, we're going to be talking about
Speaker 1: how landfills are going to keep up the work even
Speaker 1: though they may have fewer people to do that work.
Speaker 1: Stay with us. We're back and we're talking with Sylvia
Speaker 1: Carrodenin about the waste management industry and the pandemic beyond
Speaker 1: medical waste, Sylvia, let's just talk about regular, everyday waste,
Speaker 1: like the trash that we all throw out. You know,
Speaker 1: landfills are still going to be filling up at the
Speaker 1: sort of normal rate I would imagine, but there are
Speaker 1: going to be some staffing issues at these landfills because
Speaker 1: people are going to get sick. Like, what's happening with that?
Speaker 1: How are these companies dealing with them? So our office
Speaker 1: is in Arlington County, Virginia, and the county has said
Speaker 1: please hold off on your spring cleaning for a little
Speaker 1: bit longer because we're just getting so much volume front
Speaker 1: of household waste. We're getting so much more stuff from
Speaker 1: homes as opposed to businesses because everyone's working from home. Wow,
Speaker 1: so they're also I think they might also be asking
Speaker 1: people to delay putting out bulky waste, like, for example,
Speaker 1: if your spring cleaning results in an extra couch, because
Speaker 1: you want to buy a fresh new couch, you put
Speaker 1: the old one out on the curb. No one's going
Speaker 1: to come by and pick it up if you're living
Speaker 1: in certain municipalities, because they're worried that the workers are
Speaker 1: going to be exposed to the virus by touching the
Speaker 1: couch or other bulky items that you leave out. So
Speaker 1: there are some changes to people's everyday lives at this
Speaker 1: point just because of the way that the waste is
Speaker 1: picked up. So yeah, that indicates to me that they
Speaker 1: really are worried about staff issues and that this is
Speaker 1: this is an actual problem that the waste management industry
Speaker 1: is grappling with. Right What about the landfills themselves, though,
Speaker 1: I mean, I imagine there's a lot of work that
Speaker 1: has to be done to make sure that again, you know,
Speaker 1: the sort of toxic substances don't get into the environment
Speaker 1: from the landfills. I mean, is that something that can
Speaker 1: be automated or do you have to have people on site.
Speaker 1: So there were a couple of associations that represent waste
Speaker 1: management companies and handlers, and they were asking the EPA
Speaker 1: to help them out with some leniency on emissions reporting
Speaker 1: deadlines because they weren't sure that they would be able
Speaker 1: to get out there and get the people on site
Speaker 1: in the amount of time that they were required to.
Speaker 1: So some of that may eventually affect the environment, you know,
Speaker 1: in the weeks to come. It's just hard to tell. Now.
Speaker 1: Of course, there are the environmental advocacy groups who are
Speaker 1: concerned about giving any leniency to people are who are
Speaker 1: handling waste or hazardous waste. But on the flip side,
Speaker 1: that leniency is also allowing companies to keep their workers
Speaker 1: safe and abide by social distancing guidelines where they have to,
Speaker 1: and the stay at home orders that are spreading throughout
Speaker 1: the country. Yeah, it just seems like an impossible choice
Speaker 1: for the EPA here because on the one hand, you
Speaker 1: want to give, like you said, give these companies leniency.
Speaker 1: On the other hand, you know, if they're missing reporting deadlines,
Speaker 1: that's information that we don't know about what's in the air,
Speaker 1: what's in the soil, what's in the water. The companies
Speaker 1: do have to explain why they're missing those deadlines if
Speaker 1: they do miss them, so there is sort of a
Speaker 1: paper trail to explain, like it's not just blame it
Speaker 1: on the virus, it's that something was happening in our
Speaker 1: operation and that's why we weren't able to meet this requirement. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, I've seen a lot of people, I guess
Speaker 1: on social media say like, oh, the EPA and Trump
Speaker 1: administration is sort of you know, all environmental laws are
Speaker 1: lifted now, and they're using this as a pretext to like,
Speaker 1: you know, just kind of let companies go wild. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think that's an exaggeration at best, but you know,
Speaker 1: this is the kind of thing that makes people really apprehensive.
Speaker 1: I mean, what is really going on here? Is this
Speaker 1: actually sort of you know, letting these companies and these
Speaker 1: polluters do whatever they want, or you know, is it
Speaker 1: not like that. I don't think it's exactly like that. Well,
Speaker 1: but I mean, we'll have to see when the dust
Speaker 1: clears on all of this. What kinds of reasons were
Speaker 1: the companies using to explain why they weren't able to
Speaker 1: meet certain regulations that they normally do. And that's what
Speaker 1: we'll be looking out for as reporters when those documents
Speaker 1: start coming in. Yeah, and then you know you mentioned
Speaker 1: that right now, the companies are just sort of missing
Speaker 1: reporting deadlines. If this goes on for a lot longer,
Speaker 1: let's say, through this month and maybe next month and
Speaker 1: maybe even June, who knows what's going to come next,
Speaker 1: Like what sort of things are they going to miss next?
Speaker 1: What sort of exemptions are they going to ask for
Speaker 1: that go beyond just you know, reporting. It's a good question.
Speaker 1: I think that really depends on how much of the
Speaker 1: country ends up getting the virus. I mean, if a
Speaker 1: significant amount of people are not able to do any
Speaker 1: work whatsoever, even if it's from home, a lot of
Speaker 1: things are going to slow down. Maybe trash collection changes
Speaker 1: from once a week to once a month. It really
Speaker 1: depends on how we're able to deal with those cases
Speaker 1: as they come up. Wow, all right, well that'll do
Speaker 1: it for today's episode of Parts per Billion. If you
Speaker 1: want more about how the pandemic is affecting the environment,
Speaker 1: our website news doop Bloomberg environment dot com is the
Speaker 1: place to go. That website once again is newsdop Bloomberg
Speaker 1: Environment dot com. Great stuff there. Today's episode of Parts
Speaker 1: Billion was produced by myself along with Josh Block and
Speaker 1: Marissa Horn. Parts. Brivilion was created by Jessica Coombs and
Speaker 1: Rachel Daegel. Music for today's episode is a message by
Speaker 1: Jazzar and Raygun by ronhal. They were used under a
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